Manitoba Hansard — 24 November 2008 (Sitting 3, 39th Legislature, 3rd Session)

39-3-3

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LXI No. 3 – 1:30 p.m., Monday, November 24, 2008 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P.

DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P.

MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MARCELINO, Flor Wellington N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P.

STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. Vacant Elmwood Vacant The Pas

39 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, November 24, 2008 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYER ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 2–The Animal Care Amendment Act Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minis ter of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), that The Animal Care Act, as amended, will now be introduced. Mr. Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Minister of Agriculture and Food, seconded by the honourable Minister of Finance, that Bill 2, The Animal Care Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Ms. Wowchuk: Mr.

Speaker, this bill amends The Animal Care Act that strengthens the ability of veterinarians to report suspected cases of animal neglect and abuse to a director. It deals with how unfit animals are transported to slaughter facilities, and it requires further regulations to strengthen how we will deal with pets and other animals that have been neglected or abused. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 3–The Forest Amendment Act Hon. Stan Struthers (Minister of Conservation): I move, seconded by the Minister of Competitiveness, Training and Trade (Mr.

Swan), that Bill 3, The Forest Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les forêts, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Struthers: This act makes possible the removal of logging in 79 of 80 parks in Manitoba, also makes some changes to a market-based system for stumpage fees in Manitoba which are supported by the industry. So I highly recommend it to this House. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 200–The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Booster Seats) Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the MLA for Inkster (Mr.

Lamoureux), that Bill 200, The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Booster Seats); Loi modifiant le Code de la route (sièges d'appoint), be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, this bill provides for the mandatory use of booster seats of the appropriate age children in Manitoba. It follows laws passed in many other provinces, and it prov ides for better safety for children in Manitoba. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 203–The Jordan's Principle Implementation Act Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, I move, seconded by the MLA for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux), that Bill 203, The Jordan's Principle Implementation Act;

Loi sur la mise en œuvre du principe de Jordan, be now read a first time and passed. Motion presented. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, this act provides for the implementation of Jordan's Principle, the principle that children be considered first and that jurisdictional arguments between governments or between departments be considered afterwards. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 205–The Milk Prices Review Amendment Act Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, I would move, seconded by the Member for River Heights (Mr.

Gerrard), that Bill 205, The Milk Prices Review Amendment Act, be now read for a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, in essence, this bill states that if government is in a position in which it

40 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 24, 2008 can set a standard price of a bottle of beer, then why don't we do the same thing and allow for one price for a container of milk. So, whether it's in Churchill, Manitoba, or the city of Winnipeg, that it's once price making it, therefore, more affordable for those that are in need. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 201–The Non-Smokers Health Protection Amendment Act (Protecting Children from Second-Hand Smoke in Motor Vehicles) Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Yes, Mr.

Speaker, I would move, seconded by the Member for River Heights (M r. Gerrard), that Bill 201, The Non-Smokers Health Protection Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Mr. Speaker: It's been moved by the honourable Member for Inkster, seconded by the honourable Member for River Heights, that Bill 201, The Non-Smokers Health Protection Amendment Act (Protecting Children fro m Second-Hand Smoke in Motor Vehicles), be now read a first time. Mr. Lamoureux: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, this bill would enable the government of the day, if passed, to allow us to have a new law in the province of Manitoba that would subject someone to a fine if they're in fact smoking in a vehicle with a child in the said vehicle. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] * (13:40) PETITIONS Long-Term Care Facility–Morden Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present a petition to the Legislative Assembly.

These are the reasons for this petition: Tabor Home Incorporated is a time-expired personal care home in Morden with safety, environmental and space deficiencies. The seniors of Manitoba are valuable members of the community with in creasing health-care needs requiring long-term care. The community of Morden and the surrounding area are experiencing substantial population growth. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Health (Ms.

Oswald) to strongly consider giving priority for funding to develop and staff a new 100-bed long-term care facility so that clients are not exposed to unsafe conditions and so that Boundary Trails Health Centre beds remain available for acute-care patients instead of waiting placement clients. This is signed by Dorothy Gower, Eldith Hildebrand, Fran Einarson and many, many others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Education Funding Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon West): Mr.

Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows: Historically, the Province of Manitoba has received funding for educati on by the assessment of property that generates taxes. This unfair tax is only applied to selected property owners in certain areas and confines. Property-based school tax is becoming an ever-increasing burden without acknowledging the owner's income or owner's ability to pay. The provincial sales tax was instituted for the purpose of funding education.

However, monies generated by this tax are being placed in general revenue. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Education, Citizenship and Youth (Mr. Bjornson) consider removing education funding by school tax or education levies from all property in Manitoba. To request that the Minister of Education, Citizenship and Youth consider finding a more equitable method of funding education, such as general revenue, following the constitutional funding of education by the Province of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, this petition is signed by R. Ashdown, J. Bell, M.

Ashdown and many other fine Manitobans.

November 24, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 41 Provincial Nominee Program–90 Day Guarantee Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows: Reuniting families through the Manitoba Provincial Nominee Program should be the first priority in processing nominee certificates. Lengthy processing times for PNP applications cause additional stress and anxiety for would-be immigrants and their families here in Manitoba.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to consider establishing a 90-day guarantee for processing an application for a minimum of 90 percent of applicants that have family living in Manitoba. This is signed by R. Neufeld, M. Garcia, R. Ananan and many, many other fine Manitobans. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the Speaker's Gallery where we have with us today from Brazil, the Secretary of Economic Development and International Affairs, Mr.

Márcio Biolchi and Deputy Secretary of Agriculture, Livestock, Fisheries and Agribusiness, Mr. Gilmar Rodrigues, also the President of the Federation of Agriculture of the Rio Grande do Sul state Farsul and representing Sebrae, Mr. Carlos Sperotto. Also in the public gallery we have with us today Kristine Janz, councillor for the R.M. of Argyle, who is the guest of the honourable Member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Cullen). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you all here today. ORAL QUESTIONS Municipal Infrastructure Needs Government Co-operation Mr.

Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): After decades of neglect and as we move into a period of economic uncertainty, municipal leaders who have been elected by their constituents to serve on their behalf, often with little thanks, are today asking for a share of the revenue that has been flowing into the provincial government to meet their local municipal infrastructure needs. We know, Mr. Speaker, they're working hard throughout Manitoba to rebuild their communities and that their share of the overall take flowing to government has been declining over the last number of years.

Now, we agree with the position of the Premier and the government that now is not the time to raise taxes on the people of Manitoba, but I will ask the Premier if he'll leave behind the attitude of confrontation that he's taken with municipalities, work with them and move forward on ensuring that they have the revenue to move forward on rebuilding their communities, building their infrastructure and securing a genuine partnership as we move through these difficult economic times. Hon.

Gary Doer (Premier): Last year, there was a national report completed on the state of municipalities and their relationship between provincial governments. Manitoba has the highest unconditional granting level of any jurisdiction in Canada, any province in Canada, sometimes two and three times greater than prov inces to the west of us and provinces to the east of us. We also have uploaded–from the 1990s, we've uploaded many services. In some provinces welfare is taken care of totally by the municipalities.

In fact, a Conservative government in Ontario downloaded welfare, downloaded child care, downloaded many other programs. We have uploaded that to a one-tier welfare system in Manitoba, so municipalities, if there is an economic challenge in Canada, will be somewhat protected. The increase has been significant, more than the GDP, in terms of municipal funding. I would also point out, Mr. Speaker, that the petition just five minutes ago from members opposite talked about completely taking off of all property tax any education costs.

Last year, the member opposite had an $800-million tax reduction which was reckless. He then added six months later a $400-million tax proposal. They have one position on education, for schools funding, totally contrary to what they did in government. We will continue to increase funding to municipalities. We have every year. We have also eliminated one of two taxes on homeowners and farm owners by eliminating the ESL. There were two taxes when we came into office that were bequeathed

42 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 24, 2008 to us by the Tories on homeowners for education. We've eliminated one complete tax on homeowners, again to try to provide some relief for taxpayers on the one hand and investments in infrastructure with municipalities. Let me repeat: The highest percentage of unconditional grants on a per capita basis, according to an independent report commissioned by the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, is in Manitoba.

We will continue to work with municipalities, but we don't start from a point with the–we're the only province in Canada that shares income tax and corporate tax. That's why we have the largest unconditional grant in Canada, and we'll continue to work constructively with them. Mr. McFadyen: That historical diatribe is so filled with errors, Mr. Speaker.

The fact is the welfare transfer of responsibi lity also came with a $1.1-million bill that the Province started sending to municipalities in exchange for undertaking the welfare services, and the response is riddled with other errors, all of which is not particularly relevant when we consider where we stand today and where we need to be going into the future. The fact is the share of revenues being collected by municipalities is 8 cents and shrinking on the dollar. The share of revenue flowing to the provincial government, the money has been flowing in like Niagara Falls.

There is a small trickle of that money that's making its way through to municipalities. That trickle has gotten marginally larger under this government but nothing close to the Niagara Falls-like flow of money coming from Ottawa to this government. Instead of pointing fingers, Mr. Speaker, at municipalities, why not sit down with them and work out a better deal with growth revenues, unconditional grants as a share of the existing PST to both protect taxpayers and allow local governments to get on with rebuilding their communities. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, I already said that they do get growth revenues.

It's the only province in Canada that shares income tax and corporate taxes with municipalities, the only province in Canada. That's why, Mr. Speaker, in Manitoba–the unconditional grant in Manitoba is 14 percent. It's 2.7 percent in Ontario, 2 percent in B.C., 0.3 percent in Alberta and 6 percent in Saskatchewan. This is in a report that was conducted not by the provincial government but a report conducted by the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. They also raise issues of administrative costs in Manitoba, Mr.

Speaker, where we're on the other side of the equation in terms of comparative costs with other provinces in Canada. Of course, the municipalities of Manitoba have that report. They're certainly welcome to make it public. We would welcome that report being made public to the people of Manitoba, to the people of this province. I would also point out that we did increase our road budget. For example, in the city of Winnipeg it was under $5 million when we came into office; it's over $30 million now. That's a five-time increase in road provisions. We have maintained and enhanced the income tax transfer.

We've negotiated with the federal government for the share of gas taxes. We've got The Gas Tax Accountability Act now where all the dollars are identified. We have uploaded more costs to the provincial government and off of municipalities. * (13:50) We used to have a municipal welfare system in Manitoba. We now have a welfare system completely paid for by the provincial government– [interjection] Well, the members would know that the pension plan in the ci ties and the provinces are different, obviously, again another cost comparison.

Our salaries are lower than the City of Winnipeg and actually our pension plan is not as generous as the City of Winnipeg. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, we transfer income tax and corporate taxes. No other province does that. We are very involved in infrastructure. Not counted in the numbers the member opposite mentioned is the floodway which is being paid 50 percent by the federal government, 50 percent by the provincial government; flood protection in southern Manitoba over $250 million. Many proposals in infrastructure are paid for directly by the provincial government.

We have pledged one-third of the full capital cost of the sewer and waste water all across Manitoba, and for us, Mr. Speaker, we've had billions of dollars transferred to municipalities and we still have water that's not treated. It's not treated and we have raw sewage, and so we believe in maintaining the unconditional grant to municipalities but also targeting money for sewage treatment, for waste-water investments and

November 24, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 43 very important flood protection programs and for raw sewage in Manitoba. That is also very important, to have targeted objectives in place so that we can make sure that the dollars are not going only to salaries but are going to needed infrastructure, roads, sewage treatment, sewage-water treatment and projects that are very important for the future of the citizens of Manitoba, Mr. Speaker. Mr. McFadyen: It's unfortunate that he feels that municipal leaders can't be trusted to spend their budgets and make the right decisions.

I think that response is a reflection of an attitude of arrogance that has crept into this government, that only they know how to spend money. Well, Mr. Speaker, that history that the Premier has just laid out contains lots of information. We're aware of the revenue-sharing program that was introduced by the prior Progressive Conservative government with municipalities.

But rather than looking to the past, let's take a look at where we need to go from today and into the future, which is what the municipal leaders of Manitoba are gathering for today and over the next few days in Winnipeg, not just to examine the past as the Premier is obsessed with doing but to look to the future. The fact is, Mr.

Speaker, if he's worried about where he's going to find the money to help support municipal infrastructure projects and if he's so convinced that he knows how to spend it better than they do, why not just cancel the waste of $640-million-plus on the west-side power transmission corridor and put that money into building communities in partnership with Manitoba municipalities. With the simple act of cancelling that massively wasteful project, he co uld increase grants to municipalities by 50 percent over six years.

Why not get his own house in order and then sit down at the table as a partner to allow our municipal leaders to work with their constituents to begin the process of rebuilding their communities. Mr. Doer: Well, Mr. Speaker, the mathematics that the member opposite is using is the reason why we never built any dams in Manitoba, because they never talk about the billions of dollars in revenue that's going to come about because of the transmission. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, the Schreyer corporate and individual income tax provision has been introduced and kept in Manitoba.

If you're talking about co-trusting municipalities, why do we have the highest unconditional grant in Canada? That is obviously a sign of trusting municipalities. When it's 14 percent in Manitoba and only 0.3 percent in Alberta or 2.7 in Ontario or 2 percent in B.C., I guess we're seven times more trusting than any other jurisdiction in Canada. But, Mr. Speaker, we also have built upon that to have our roads program increased by five times. Now, we will sit down with municipalities during this convention. We sat down with them before the convention. We'll sit down with them after.

We'll make sure that we continue to enhance the grants. I believe the grants to the City of Winnipeg have gone up over 40 percent in the last four years in terms of actual real investments, but that doesn't even take into consideration projects like the floodway, which also protects the citizens of the city of Winnipeg, which is 50 percent paid for by the provincial government with the federal government. We also are lookin g forward to massive increases in infrastructure. We're discussing that now with the federal government. Everybody agrees that we need new infusion of taxes. But, you know, Mr.

Speaker, the municipal taxes and school board taxes in the 1990s–and you still have some former Cabinet ministers as part of the 1990s–you want to talk about the Progressive Conservative record, according to Stats Canada, your taxes went up 57 percent under the Conservative regime. That was the highest amount of any government in Canada, and in the last 10 years, there's actually been a decrease in municipal taxes, counting school boards, with the increased investment in infrastructure. Mr. Speaker, we're not perfect, but we give the most in Canada on that regard. City of Thompson Tax Increases Mrs.

Mavis Taillieu (Morris): Mr. Speaker, the City of Thompson has approved four new municipal taxes. The only person standing between them imposing those taxes on residents and small businesses is the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs (Mr. Ashton) and, coincidentally, the MLA for Thompson. During this dramatic economic downturn gripping North America, the minister has said that now is not the time for new taxes. Will the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs confirm whether he is going to approve these new

44 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 24, 2008 taxes for Thompson, taxes that will be a direct hit on residents and small businesses in that city? Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, the member indicated that it was only the provincial government that's standing in the way of this municipality increasing these taxes. Then it wasn't clear after that whether she thought that was a bad thing or a good thing. Perhaps she could clarify in the next round. Thompson also gets the benefit– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr.

Selinger: The City of Thompson also benefits from the sharing of personal income tax revenues, corporate income tax revenues, VLT revenues and gas tax. We have the broadest base of revenue sharing of any province in the country, with the largest amount of unconditional grants to municipalities, and the City of Thompson benefits from all of that. In addition, they have Neighbourhoods Alive! and many other practical investments that improve their community. Mrs. Taillieu: Mr.

Speaker, doesn't the minister think that if he approves the Thompson 2 percent hotel tax, the 2 percent restaurant tax, the 2 percent liquor tax and the 0.5 percent land transfer tax, that he'll be opening the floodgates for other municipalities who are feeling the crunch of this province's infrastructure deficit? Who's he standing up for? Is he going to stand up for small businesses and residents in this province? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, Manitoba has the lowest rate of taxation for small businesses in Canada at 2 percent.

That means that this provincial government is solidly supporting small business in this province with the taxation rates that we make available to them. In addition, we have made very significant investments in the city of Thompson on very key facilities in that community that they know that they need and they want, including University College of the North. There have been significant investments there, significant investments in other social and health facilities, as well as revenue sharing. I know that the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs (Mr.

Ashton) has seized of the request from the community of Thompson. I know that he will deal with it in such a way that the city of Thompson will be well positioned to move forward. Mrs. Taillieu: Well, Mr. Speaker, we just want a simple answer, a yes or no answer. So will the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs just peel back all this rhetoric and just give the House a straight answer, and the people of Thompson? Will he sign off on the new taxes or not? Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, it is the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs–and ministers of Intergovernmental Affairs actually like to meet with the other level of government before they make announcements. The Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs will be meeting very soon, perhaps as early as today with the mayor of Thompson. After he's had that meeting with the mayor of Thompson, I'm sure that they will jointly be able to talk to the public about what the plans are on moving forward for the city of Thompson. * (14:00) Building Canada Fund Implementation Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): Mr.

Speaker, the Throne Speech indicated the need to move infrastructure fu nding forward to stimulate the economy and to help our communities, yet if this government's past actions are any indication, we'll be waiting a long time to see that money flow. A case in point: an entire whole construction season was lost thanks to the government's delays in signing the Building Canada Fund. Mr. Speaker, why did the Premier waste a whole construction season supposedly negotiating the Building Canada Fund and still end up with the same funding allocations that were in place in the beginning? Hon.

Gary Doer (Premier): Well, Mr. Speaker, there has been no money allocated in any province from the infrastructure fund, an item that came up at the First Ministers' meeting. There's been no agreement on the strategic infrastructure from the federal government. We were able to negotiate some, I guess you could call it compromise on the subtraction of the floodway money so that municipalities outside of Winnipeg wouldn't be as severely prejudiced as they might have otherwise been with the proposal. We did get money for Highway 75. We have money for

November 24, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 45 Asia-Pacific, for the inland port, and we think those are all very positive, along with the floodway. But, Mr. Speaker, one of the concerns raised at the First Ministers' meeting was the whole issue of infrastructure for the whole country. Mr. Briese: Mr. Speaker, the Association of Manitoba Municipalities and the Federation of Canadian Municipalities have talked about the importance of getting infrastructure dollars flowing quickly.

Before any fund ing can flow from the Building Canada Fund to the Manitoba municipalities and Northern Affairs communities, a second agreement called the Communities Component must be negotiated and signed. Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister: Why is this agreement not signed? Will the municipalities have to wait another year to r eceive critical infrastructure funding? Hon.

Ron Lemieux (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation): Every time we've come to this Chamber with a budget that increases our infrastructure dollars, members opposite vote against it, yet we hear every day about a highway, a bridge, a road of some sort that each individual member opposite, Mr. Speaker, wants to have improved. Mr. Speaker, we have a plan in place and we've put billions of dollars towards that plan. We're certainly looking at ways to roll out that money which we have included in our overall plan.

Every year at this time, we have budgeted for infrastructure projects, and we're also looking at tendering out many of those projects for next year and we'll continue to do so. Mr. Briese: Mr. Speaker, Manitoba municipalities and Northern Affairs communities need a clear indication when the Communities Component of the Building Canada Fund will be signed. The fact of the matter is the longer you delay a project the more it's likely to cost. To maximize the benefits of Manitoba's share of the Building Canada Fund, we need to get the infrastructure projects moving in a timely fashion. Mr.

Speaker, I ask the mi nister again: How long is it going to take to get this important agreement signed and get the needed infrastructure dollars flowing? What is the time line? Mr. Lemieux: To the best of my knowledge, no other province in Canada with regard to what the member is referring to has signed anything. Mr. Speaker, a lot of provinces that have signed months ago on the Building Canada Fund and framework agreement have not received a single penny as yet.

But having said that, as was announced in the Throne Speech, we have put forward $4.7 billion with regard to the next four years on health care, on education, on transportation, roads and water treatment. Mr. Speaker, we're very proud of our record in the past. We'll continue to build it. We're certainly not perfect, but we have a plan in place and we plan on putting it forward. We know that we've worked over the last number of years with regard to many, many projects with the municipalities, and many of them have worked closely with us on prioritizing those kinds of projects that we're working on. Dr.

Larry Reynolds Minister's Knowledge of Termination Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): A Winnipeg doctor says he is out of a job because he was too outspoken. Dr. Larry Reynolds was recruited here seven years ago to head up the University of Manitoba's Department of Family Medicine and he was also the medical director at the WRHA. This is Family Doctor Week in Canada, but this doctor received a letter this week, a letter which told him that he was fired. He thinks it is because he criticized how the WRHA handled some issues.

Now, there is no way that a doctor in this position would be fired without the okay from the Minister of Health. Can the Minister of Health tell us if she approved his firing? Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): You know, Mr. Speaker, from time to time members opposite accuse–[interjection] Mr. Speaker: Order. Ms. Oswald: Members opposite from time to time accuse us of speaking too frequently of the past, but I would suggest that this member is clearly dwelling in the past and the culture of disdain and negativity that they had when they dealt with doctors in Manitoba.

I can assure the people of this province and the members of this House that when it comes to issues of personnel and regional health authorities, those are matters that are dealt with in that manner. It is

46 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 24, 2008 our responsibility as a government to provide opportunities for more individuals to be trained and for more individuals to be hired. This particular matter is between the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority and the individual doctor, and the member is indeed putting misinformation about the status of this individual on this record. Mrs. Driedger: I would indicate to the minister that the information I'm putting forward comes straight from Dr. Reynolds in an interview he has done.

Also, this minister cannot take credit for all the hirings of doctors if she doesn't take responsibility also for the firings of doctors. Mr. Speaker, James Turk, the executive director of the Canadian Association of University Teachers said that this firing makes Manitoba look bad. He said Dr. Reynolds is one of the best-known professors of family medicine in Canada, probably the most experienced teacher and most experienced researcher in the Department of Family Medicine.

He also said that this firing, and I quote: will have a negative impact on the ability of the university in the region to be able to attract first-rate academic physicians in the future and will have a negative impact on health care. So I'd like to ask the Minister of Health why doctors in this province are not allowed to have a voice to speak up against the problems in health care. Ms. Oswald: Let's be absolutely clear, as once again the member is putting information on the record that is just untrue.

The doctor in question, of course, is absolutely invited and encouraged by the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority to continue being a doctor in the city and in the province, to continue providing very good work. It is the purview of the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority to renew or to not renew contracts in specific capacities. This individual is still a doctor in Manitoba, will continue to be a doctor in Manitoba. In discussions with the region, I can provide assurances to the House that this is not a matter of squelching academic freedom or speaking out.

Indeed, the culture that is created in Manitoba now is to increase doctor and nurses' input, not to fire a thousand of them and cut spaces in medical school. Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, the information that I am putting on the record–and I would assert today that it is the Minister of Health that is putting forward misinformation. All of this comes from the mouth of Dr. Larry Reynolds himself and in the case of the executive director for the university, James Turk. Mr. Speaker, nurses in Manitoba are afraid to speak out because of problems in health care.

ER doctors, when they were speaking out about their concerns about patient safety because of the shortage of ER doctors, they told me they were threatened with job loss. [interjection] They did, and now a doctor who is a leader in family medicine has been fired for speaking out. All of this promotes a culture of fear and intimidation in Manitoba. So I'd like to ask the Minister of Health: Why is she muzzling the health-care professionals in this province when they speak up about patient safety and patient care? * (14:10) Ms. Oswald: Mr.

Speaker, with the greatest of respect, the member is just wrong, absolutely wrong. I listen to the radio too, but in addition to that, I do some homework. I don't just make stuff up, as is apparently the case with the member opposite. What I can say to you, Mr. Speaker, is the most important lesson that we've learned in the post-Justice Sinclair era from the pediatric baby deaths of the 1990s, we know that particular efforts should be made to determine how to prevent errors by discovering where the flaw s lie in the system that contribute to errors being made.

Paul Thomas says if the attitude persists that error is unacceptable and that the acknowledgement of mistakes is an admission of incompetence, the opportunity to learn from negative or even disappointing results will be lost. Ours is a culture of openness, not sweeping errors under the rugs like under their watch. Phoenix Sinclair Case Review Status of Report Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): Mr. Speaker, the Child Advocate's office was to, over a year ago, receive a full status report on the 32 recommendations that were presented as a result of Phoenix Sinclair's death. Mr.

Speaker, the minister now has had the weekend since I asked the question on Friday to find that information. Will he today table the detailed report that was sent to the Children's Advocate's office over a year ago?

November 24, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 47 Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Family Services and Housing): Well, the member I think knows full well that the Ombudsman, who has been receiving reports and, in fact, tabled a report with the public just a–was it just a few months ago, on the status of the implementation of recommendations is one. I understand the Children's Advocate is doing likewise.

I can also assure the members that there have been ongoing discussions, communications between the Child Protection branch, the child welfare authorities and those two independent offices to ensure that they know the status of the Changes for Children agenda. Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr.

Speaker, in a recent meeting with the Children's Advocate, she indicated that she has not received the full status report on the recommendations, and she indicated that the reports that she does receive and review are a conglomeration of individual reports organized by theme, and it's very difficult to keep track of individual case recommendations. Mr.

Speaker, will the minister tell us today what the status of recommendation S7 is, that all workers acting in all front-line positions in Manitoba's child welfare agencies be provided with essential core training in abuse, assess ments, risk assessment, counselling, breaking through resistance and relationship building with difficult clients? What is the status of this recommendation that was supposed to be submitted over a year ago? Mr. Mackintosh: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I, as well, meet regularly with the Children's Advocate, and we can certainly put on the agenda the format of the reporting that is done to our office. But I can assure members that indeed there is reporting. It's very important that the Advocate know the status of the implementation of recommendations, and if that can be improved I certainly, more than most anyone, is very keen to see some enhancement of that reporting mechanism. Mrs. Mitchelson: Well, thanks, Mr.

Speaker, but it's over two years ago that the recommendations were made, and these recommendations can't help Phoenix Sinclair but they should be implemented in order to ensure that no other child ends up like Phoenix Sinclair. Mr. Speaker, will the minister today table the detailed report that was supposed to go to the Children's Advocate over a year ago on the status of the recommendations? Mr. Mackintosh: Well, first of all, I think the record should be clarified. Clearly there was a report to all the public on the status of recommendations in the external reports under Changes for Children.

That was provided to all Manitobans, and we tabled a copy in this House, and that was over a year ago. Number 2, there are ongoing communications and reports being provided to not only the Children's Advocate but to the Ombudsman. But it sounds like the Advocate may want a different format, in which case we can attend to that. I can assure the House that that reporting is taking place. I can also assure the House, Mr. Speaker, that, in terms of progress on the recommendations, the majority of those are in progress or completed.

We'll continue to work on those recommendations, as we will for all of the recommendations. I think there are about 300 under the Changes for Children agenda. Wind Energy Financial Capacity of Babcock & Brown Mr. Cliff Cullen (Turtle Mountain): Mr. Speaker, just reading the government press release this morning on the St. Joseph wind farm, it is encouraging that the government is at least talking about wind energy here in Manitoba.

We do know that Manitoba companies, such as Sequoia Energy, are being forced to develop wind energy south of the border outside of Manitoba and there are a lot of details lacking in this particular announcement. But when the government did consider the 84 proposals that came forward, we're wondering about the criteria in the selection that was done. The question would be to the minister responsible: How important is the financial capacity of the companies wanting to do business here in Manitoba? How important is that ranking? Hon.

Greg Selinger (Min ister charged with the administration of Th e Manitoba Hydro Act): Mr. Speaker, Manitoba Hydro evaluates the proposals and they pick th e one that they think is going to provide the most economic source of wind power in Manitoba. They have talked to the company and the company has assured them that the North American operation of Babcock & Brown has been profitable. It has generated capital which is available to the

48 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 24, 2008 parent company which, as the member knows, has gone though some struggles recently in the stock market, and they have successfully brought on 600 megawatts of wind power last year. They plan to do at least as much this year. They have been a positive contributor towards this development of clean energy in North America, and they have gotten the project in Manitoba based on their track record of successfully developing these projects. Mr.

Cullen: Certainly the business community has some concerns with Babcock & Brown as well, and I will table for the minister just some documents that were circulated today from the Business Spectator . I'll quote from that particular news release, and it says here: "Babcock & Brown Ltd. could be on the brink of receivership, with the investment firm facing increasing pressure from its bankers to restructure its debt." So the question to the minister is: What due diligence did his department do in terms of Babcock & Brown in this development in Manitoba? Mr.

Selinger: Manitoba Hydro is the purchaser of the power, and as was indicated at the press conference today, Manitoba Hydro has no risk in this proposal, because the entire responsibility for financing and building this project rests with the private proponent of the project, Babcock & Brown. So there is no risk to Manitoba Hydro ratepayers, which includes all of us, in this project. There is no risk to Manitoba Hydro. There is no risk to the Manitoba ratepayers, and the company has assured us that they are able to mount and do this project based on their track record of doing it many more times in North America.

As recently as last year they brought 600 megawatts on-stream. This project is 300 megawatts and they expressed a high degree of confidence today, in the press conference, in their ability to deliver this project. Mr. Cullen: Well, Mr. Speaker, if you look at the details of this, in fact there are no details in this press release that was put out this morning. It's more talk about wind farms. There's not even a signed purchase agreement in place. Now, we know, Babcock & Brown, two directors actually resigned within the last week from that particular company.

So the question is: What due diligence is this government doing on behalf of Manitobans? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, the due diligence with respect to any purchase of power by Manitoba Hydro is done by themselves. They bear no risk. It's entirely on the shoulders of the private company to deliver this project. They have raised $5 billion for energy projects. They have raised $3 billion for– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Members are asking questions and the member is trying to respond. Let's have a little decorum here. Mr.

Selinger: They indicated when they were asked the question this morning that they have multiple turbine suppliers, so that they are very confident they will be able to have the turbines needed which has been the bottleneck in the supply chain. They believe that they are making a positive–they know they're making a positive capital contribution to the parent company. They've just announced a wind farm in Texas, and this is part of a larger $1-billion company effort to develop 550 megawatts in Texas, South Dakota and Wisconsin.

So the reality is Manitoba Hydro has picked a proponent that has offered the best arrangement with the best supply of wind turbines, and they, the private company, are bearing all the risk. * (14:20) Dr. Larry Reynolds Government Response to Termination Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, the Premier knows that Dr.

Larry Reynolds, an internationally renowned and tenured family physician who served for a while as head of the Department of Family Medicine for the University of Manitoba and for the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority–he's been unceremoniously dismissed by both the WRHA and the university because he dared to speak out publicly against the policies of this government for improved training and working conditions of family physicians. I ask the Premier, through you, Mr. Speaker: Is the Premier running a banana republic? What action is the Premier going to take to address this important situation?

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. I remind members, when asking a question, it's a question and two

November 24, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 49 supplementary questions, not tie in two questions at the same time. The honourable First Minister has the floor. Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I'd like to thank the member opposite for his contribution to decorum in this House with his rudeness in his question. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, the government of Manitoba has never, ever interfered with the hiring or comments made by any pr of at the University of Manitoba.

I would point out that the head of political science for the University of Winnipeg ran for the Liberal Party in Osborne. He's a well-known pundit before, during and after that time. There are other people that have been quite critical, in the universities, of the government, some complimentary. That's freedom of speech. We support that, and I really object to the tone and substance of the member opposite's question. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, it is a sad reality that all too many people in this province have been oppressed by the bullying and harassment that's coming from this government when people speak out.

When I woke up this morning, I wondered if I'd woken up in Zimbabwe under President Mugabe. The bullying and harassment has got to stop. We're going to stand up for the people in this province who want to speak out against injustice. I ask the Premier: When we bring in the strongest possible anti-bullying and harassment legislation, will the Premier support us? Mr. Doer: Well, Mr. Speaker, I find the comments made by the member opposite to be bullying and rude, and maybe he could start with himself in the policies he's articulating. Manitoba Lotteries Scratch-and-Win Tickets Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr.

Speaker, every week tens of thousands of Manitobans go to the lottery outlets and they purchase tickets in anticipation that they have the opportunity to be able to win the top prize. Unfortunately, that is quite often not the case because the to p prize has already been won, yet they're still purchasing tickets in anticipation that they have a chance to win that top prize. The Premier of this province, the government of the day is in a position in which they can stop that from happening.

I'm asking for the Premier to do the right thing and make a commitment to Manitobans that are purchasing these tickets that, in fact, the top ticket has been won, that, in fact, the status quo practice will not continue, effective immediately. Hon. Andrew Swan (Minis ter of Competitiveness, Training and Trade): I thank the Member for Inkster for the question and indeed this is an issue that has arisen. I presume he's been watching CBC. Indeed, there is a lottery–the scratch-and-win tickets are actually very popular.

Tens of thousands of Manitobans buy them each week, and Manitoba is one of the three provinces which is involved in the Western Canadian Lotteries Corporation. Indeed, that corporation will be meeting in the next couple of weeks, and we have asked the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation to take that up with our counterparts in Alberta and Saskatchewan. In truth, the grand prizes only represent about 5 percent to 7 percent of all the prize money available out there. We're very pleased that tens of thousands of Manitobans enjoy playing scratch-and- win games.

It's a positive thing, and we know that Manitoba Lotteries Corporation does great things for the province of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS National Child Day Ms. Erna Braun (Rossmere): Mr. Speaker, I rise to acknowledge a very important day. This past Thursday, November 20, was Canada's National Child Day. In 1993, the federal government enacted legislation titled The Child Day Act in recognition of the passing of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child in 1989.

Since then we have set aside this day to acknowledge our international commitment to promoting and protecting the well-being of children. Children represent an indispensable component of our communities. They breathe hope and laughter into our world and remind us that joy is often found in unexpected moments. They also remind us that we have a responsibility to future generations. We must ensure that children grow up in a safe, stimulating and compassionate environment. It is our

50 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 24, 2008 responsibility to provide the necessities of life for them with love and encouragement. Mr. Doug Martindale, Acting Speaker, in the Chair As such, our government is committed to promoting health and education as a vital way for families to protect and to provide for their little ones. We remain committed to investment in the Children's Hospital, protecting children from second-hand smoke, expanding child care options and continuing with strategies to reduce child poverty in Manitoba.

As an educator, I had the privilege of working with children and I know the power of education and the unparalleled opportunity it provides. To see young minds explore the world around them is an inspiration for us all. Our society cannot afford to overlook the needs of children. They are our hope for our future and we must continue to treat them as a worthy investment. In the words of author O.A. Battista, what's done to children, they will do to society. Mr. Acting Speaker, I ask the House to support our children and recognize National Child Day this year in Manitoba. Thank you. Family Doctor Week Mrs.

Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): It's my pleasure to rise today to acknowledge the celebration of Family Doctor Week in Canada. This is a special time to recognize the importance of family physicians in Manitoba and in Canada, and to reflect upon the importance of this profession to every single one of us. Every day family physicians diagnose and treat illness and injury, promote disease prevention and good health, co-ordinate care and advocate on behalf of their patients.

Family Doctor Week is an opportunity to recognize these and other significant contributions that family physicians make to society in their delivery of health care. Family physicians not only provide primary medical care, however, but also secondary and tertiary care in many communities. Their office is only one place where they practice their skills. They also work from hospitals, nursing homes, their patients' homes and other community facilities. Celebratory events for Family Doctor Week will include the College of Family Physicians of Canada's annual family medicine fo rum.

This year the forum is being held in Toronto at the Sheraton Centre and will host thousands of attendees and exhibitors. Family physicians are professionals, teachers, mentors, caregivers, counsellors and more. Canadians across this country owe a debt of gratitude for the care that they provide. I am pleased to take this opportunity to acknowledge the hard work and dedication of all family physicians in this province and throughout the country. The men and women who have been called to this profession are an integral part of the fabric of our society.

I ask all members of this House to join with me in thanking our family doctors and in supporting Family Doctor Week in Canada. Thank you. Medal of Remembrance Recipients Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski (St. James): I t i s a n honour to rise today to recognize the tribute paid to our local veterans and their role in the liberation of the Netherlands in the Second World War many years ago. This past week, 14 veterans were awarded the Medal of Remembrance at Deer Lodge Centre.

These local heroes participated in the battles of World War II that ultimately liberated the Netherlands from German occupation, further spearheading the Allied victory in Europe. Three years ago the Dutch invited Canadian soldiers to return to their country and celebrate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the Netherlands. These Canadians toured major battle sites and military graveyards and participated in a ceremony where the Dutch honoured their Canadian liberators with Medals of Remembrance.

Thank you Canada is engraved on the front of the medals. * (14:30) However, 14 veterans from Winnipeg were unable to attend the event due to health issues and travel limitations. Now, three years later, their service has been properly acknowledged. I was deeply honoured to oversee the event where Hans Hasenack, honorary consul for the Netherlands, presented a Medal of Remembrance to 11 Second World War veterans and three family representatives of late veterans deserving the honour.

I was equally moved by the story of bravery, heroism and sacrifice told by these veterans, as well as the tale of the Canadian liberation of the Dutch as told by my colleague, the MLA for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen), who experienced the event as a small boy.

November 24, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 51 My own childhood holds very special memories of Holland. As the daughter in a military family, we were the first of the Canadian families sent to the Netherlands–to Germany less than 10 years after the Second World War ended. In visiting Holland, I will never forget the sincere warmth and appreciation the Dutch people have for Canadians. I must also acknowledge Donna George for the initiative she has taken to ensure the veterans received proper tribute.

Her efforts, along with all the staff, volunteers and administration at Deer Lodge Centre, speak to the commitment and respect they hold for the veterans there. I ask the House to join me in acknowledging the veterans at Deer Lodge Centre. We must honour these Canadian heroes for their sacrifices have liberated many and allowed us to live among nations of peace. Thank you. Mr. Speaker in the Chair David Glenn Friesen Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, today I would like to congratulate David Glenn Friesen on receiving Manitoba's highest honour. Mr.

Friesen, along with 11 other men and women, were awarded the Order of Manitoba this past summer. They will join the 109 other Manito bans who have received this award since its creation in 1999. The Order of Manitoba is given to individuals who have displayed excellence in their field and made significant contributions to the social, economic and cultural life of Manitoba. David Glenn Friesen was awarded the Order of Manitoba for his leadership in business and his unending support for community life and higher education in Manitoba. Mr.

Friesen is a former president and CEO and the current chair of the board of Friesens Corporation, which has become Canada's largest independent book manufacturer. Friesens Corporation has been in op eration in Altona since 1907. In 2002, David Glenn Friesen was named Altona's citizen of the year. He also served on the Rhineland School Division board, the Chamber of Commerce, along with countless other local organizations in Altona. Mr.

Friesen has also chaired the most successful fundraising history for the University of Manitoba during their recent cap ital campaign entitled, Building on Strength, which raised $250 million. Friesen has served on a number of boards, including the National Arts Centre in Ottawa, the Fort Whyte Centre for Environmental Education and the Business Council of Manitoba. In the past, Friesens has been honoured as the printer of the year and was inducted into Manitoba Manufacturers Hall of Fame.

On behalf of my constituents, I'd like to congratulate David Glenn Friesen on his great achievements, receiving the Order of Manitoba, a tremendous accomplishment in which Mr. Friesen and his family should take great pride. The award has been well earned and much deserved. Thank you. Holodomor Commemorative Memorial Service Hon. Stan Struthers (Min ister of Conservation): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to mark the 75th anniversary of Holodomor and in recognition of Ukrainian Famine Awareness Week.

In June this House passed Bill 217 marking the fourth Saturday in November for each year as Ukrainian Famine and Genocide Memorial Day. The 1929 dictator Joseph Stalin instituted a policy of forced collectivization, retaliation against Ukrainian nationalism through the imposition of grain quotas, effectively denying farmers of the Ukraine their harvest. The result was famine in the breadbasket of Europe. From 1932 to 1933, all grain was confiscated. Any person caught taking even a handful of grain or suspected of holding onto any foodstuffs was deported or executed.

This was the Holodomor, murder by starvation, the genocide of millions of men, women and children. On Sunday, November 16, a ceremony was held at the Legislature in remembrance of the 75th anniversary of Holodomor. Hundreds of people attended the service, including 25 survivors of this famine and their families. Songs were performed by the O. Koshetz Choir, First Mennonite Choir and the Hoosli Ukrainian Male Chorus. Mr. Speaker, as a multicultural province, Manitoba is home to many different stories, some of them tragic.

Manitobans of Ukrainian as well as Mennonite descent have families touched by the events of Holodomor, and it is extremely important that this particular story never be forgotten. But this story is also one of hope. Seventy-five years ago, millions of Ukrainians lost their livelihoods, their freedom, and their loved ones. Over the years, many of th ese people came to settle here in Manitoba in the hope of starting a better future for themselves and their families. As a result, our province is home to a strong and vibrant

52 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 24, 2008 Ukrainian community, one that teaches us the importance of respect for human life, the strength in the face of tragedy. With the passage of Bill 217, we pledge to never forget this genocide and to remember that we, as Manitobans, must stand up for the principles of human rights and respect for human dignity. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Offi cial Opposition House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker, just on House business. Mr. Speaker: House business? Mr. Hawranik: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

I know that the Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. McFadyen) certainly is scheduled next to speak in reply to the Speech from the Throne, and, traditionally, he is the first member of the opposition to speak. I know that he is currently being interviewed in a scrum just outside the Chamber, so I'd ask the leave of the House for us to recess for a five-minute period in order to allow the Leader of the Official Opposition to come back and deliver his reply to the Speech from the Throne. Mr. Speaker: Is there agreement of the House to recess for five minutes? [Agreed] We will recess for five minutes.

The House recessed at 2:36 p.m. ____________ The House resumed at 2:42 p.m. Mr. Speaker: Order. As previously agreed, the five-minute recess is completed, and we will now go to orders of the day. THRONE SPEECH (Second Day of Debate) Mr. Speaker: Resume debate on the proposed motion of the honourable Member for Southdale (Ms.

Selby) that the following address be presented to His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: We the members of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba thank Your Honour for the gracious speech addressed to us this Third Session of the Thirty-Ninth Legislature of Manitoba, standing in the name of the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition. Mr.

Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): I'm pleased to have the opportunity to rise and address the Speech from the Throne that was presented by His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor in this Chamber last Thursday and to propose a series of amendments to that motion, which I will do so at the end of my remarks today. Before getting into the substance of the speech, though, Mr.

Speaker, I would just like to thank and acknowledge His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor and his staff as well as yourself and the table officers, Clerks and pages, as well as the staff in translation, Hansard, and elsewhere within the Legislative Assembly support group that do so much to assist all of us as elected members to do our jobs here each and every day when this House is in session. I would also, again, just like to acknowledge the passing of the former Member for The Pas, Oscar Lathlin, who, I know, Mr.

Speaker, is missed deeply by his family members and his friends, many of those colleagues who had the opportunity to serve with him over the years that he represented the people of The Pas constituency, having been elected by them five times to come here and advocate on their behalf. Certainly, we who served opposite him weathered our share of criticism, but we welcomed it and that's a healthy part of this process in this House. He certainly will be missed.

I would also like to just extend congratulations to the former Member for Elmwood who's been elected to the federal Parliament since we last sat in this Chamber, Mr. Speaker, in a closely contested and hard-fought election in the federal constituency of Elmwood-Transcona. Certainly, as members make that decision to move on to serve in other roles, we always wish them well. Even if we don't agree necessarily with all of th e policies and ideas they advance, we do wish them well as they undertake these new challenges, and I want to extend my good wishes to Mr.

Maloway as he goes to serve on behalf of the people of Elmwood and Transcona in the federal Parliament. Also, Mr. Speaker, there are a number of others who came forward and stood for election in this most recent federal election campaign, some who were elected for the first time and, in particular, Candice

November 24, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 53 Hoeppner, Shelly Glover and Niki Ashton, all of whom were elected as new members of Parliament this time around. Congratulations to all of those who were re-elected in this election campaign, who have served our province very well over the years and I know will continue to do so in a variety of capacities in the federal Parliament.

I'd also extend my congratulations and good wishes to Prime Minister Harper and his Cabinet as they face the significant challenges that are confronting them today and will continue to confront them in the months and years to come as we enter into a global period of economic downturn, significant re-alignment of the world economy and major challenges associated with that in terms of the security of pensions, the security of jobs, the ability of governments to meet the needs and expectations of their citizens and the various other socio-economic and political issues that will arise as they meet those challenges.

We certainly respect the leadership the Prime Minister has shown in his dealings on the international stage with the G-20, at APEC most recently and in other places and the non-partisan way in which he has approached the challenge of leading this great country of Canada through the challenges that lie ahead. Mr. Speaker, we also will take time in the course of our comments on the debate in the Speech from the Throne to acknowledge the elements of the Speech from the Throne that we agree with, which is not something that is routinely a focus for opposition members, but it does happen from time to time.

We certainly know in this era of uncertainty and stress that Manitobans are looking to all of us to be constructive in our comments, to acknowledge where things are going well, to encourage and support the government in areas where we feel they're on the right track and certainly to encourage them to change course in areas where we believe they're off-track, all of which is with a view toward a better future for our province and, of course, meeting the immediate fears and anxieties of Manitobans as we look at the economic circumstances that we face today.

I want to just acknowledge the role the Premier's played in a variety of forums both within the province, within the country of Canada and internationally as a voice for Manitoba and as a person who represents our province with great dignity and in a very articulate way. While we may disagree with his directions and some of the policy decisions and occasionally with priorities and tactics, we certainly respect the role that he plays in advancing the interests of the province of Manitoba outside of our borders.

We know that what happens beyond our borders is incredibly important to the day-to-day lives of everyday Manitobans in ways that we don't always appreciate. It's not always on the top of mind of every Manitoba citizen the reality that so much of our economic activity is a function of our ability to export to other provinces, our ability to import goods and ideas and, increasingly, people to build the economy of the future and that we are incredibly dependent on and living in an interdependent world when it comes to the economic realities. Some will say that this is a cause for concern.

There will be a temptation in some places to resort to protectionism, to try to throw up walls and turn away from this interdependence that has been created over the last two decades in particular. We would argue that this is the time to resist that kind of thinking, that with the interlocking economy, certainly when there are downs in some places that will have an impact on others, but it also means that we share in the wealth and the opportunities that arise as economies grow internationally. Perhaps just as importantly, Mr.

Speaker, we know that, where there is a mutual dependency, there is a lower likelihood of countries coming into conflict with one another in other ways. We know that if we are in a situation where the fortunes of China have an impact on our own fortunes, as the United States' economy slides, that that's going to have an impact on us, that these are things that we know we must help to address globally in order to ensure that our common future is not compromised. * (14:50) Similarly, we know from experience that as economies in other places grow, we stand to share in the benefit of that growth.

We've certainly seen that in Manitoba over the past nine or 10 years. We've had our share of growth internally. We've also benefited from the growth around us which has opened up new markets and certainly created a financial framework within our country that has led to the increased ability of the federal government to support Manitoba over the last eight or nine years.

54 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 24, 2008 In recognizing these basic facts about the international economy and the interlinking nature of societies, we know that the ability to express our will and to stand up for our own province outside of our borders is more important today than it has been at any time in history. So we thank, acknowledge and encourage the government as they protect Manitoba's interests and advocate on our behalf in a variety of ways outside of the borders of the province of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, there is much in the Throne Speech to agree with.

We will acknowledge that there are individual initiatives in this speech which are good ones. I think, in particular, about the steps taken to protect children from second-hand smoke. I think also about efforts to make improvements to infrastructure and move forward on a number of projects in different places around the province.

In particular, the desire to create better linkages between remote communities along the east side of our province and the city of Winnipeg and the other communities throughout Manitoba in order to reduce the cost of food and provide for better access to health and other services for the people of that part of our province. We also will acknowledge, Mr. Speaker, that there are initiatives in this speech which take steps to protect our natural environment and the heritage and the legacy that will be left to succeeding generations.

We've certainly had questions about some of the specifics but let there be no doubt that we support the goals and congratulate the government on putting forward these goals. We will certainly, in the weeks and months ahead, be looking forward to working with the government to offer our own suggestions but, in the end, to support the achievement of various goals that will protect children from second-hand smoke, protect our natural environment and do other things to support our business community as it attempts to navigate through the difficult time ahead.

Notwithstanding the various items within the speech that we support, we had some disappointments. Of course, I'll use this opportunity to express some disappointment about certain things that were missing from this speech that we believe could have made for a stronger, more forward- looking speech and ultimately, a better and stronger province for the next generation. One of the fundamental issues that didn't get the emphasis it deserved in th is speech was the basic reality that the province, like every nation and every civilization in history, will rise or fall based on what happens with its economy.

It will rise and fall on the strength or the weakness of our provincial economy. That ultimately, everything we do in our province is a function of the ability to raise the money and achieve the level of wealth required to unite our province, offer safe communities, effective health care, first-class education systems, leading-edge environmental protection, healthy families and communities, and safety-net programs that protect our seniors, the poor and the most vulnerable members of our community. This was an important and significant weakness of the speech.

There was insufficient evidence of a plan to build the economic engine of our province to ensure that we'll have the wealth to meet all those other needs and to support all of those other goals. There's also within the speech, we believe, a failure to acknowledge and take into account that there have been missed opportunities and failures over the last nine years that have put our province in a weaker position than we would have been otherwise.

Had it not been for those missed opportunities and some of those failures, our province would be in a stronger position than it is today to weather what may be coming down the road. Out of those concerns, in particular, we've seen a lot of day-to-day management by the government, but on the big strategic issues that matter to the future of Manitoba and to the next generations, we've seen a lack of action, a lack of energy and a lack of vision on the part of the government. In particular, Mr.

Speaker, we would want the government to revisit some decisions that have been made that are not so far down the road that they can't be reversed in order to clearly send a signal that the priorities of the government are aligned with the priorities of Manitobans. We would've wanted to see the government acknowledge its error in routing the next major hydro transmission line down the longer, less environmentally friendly west side of Manitoba.

To throw a minimum of $640 million, which are the Finance Minister's own numbers, away on this project, $535 taken out of the pockets of every man, woman and child in Manitoba, in order to build the line that is longer, less reliable, less environmentally friendly and more wasteful than the east side option, Mr. Speaker, which is supported by a vast majority

November 24, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 55 of the Aboriginal communities that live on the east side of the province. Mr. Speaker, we also would call on the government to repeal its misguided decision to take a million dollars out of the pockets of Manitobans, over four years under its vote tax plan, to take that money from the pockets of Manitobans and put it into the pockets of the New Democratic Party of Manitoba, right out of the pockets of Manitobans and into the pockets of the governing party. There were ways to address the issue of small parties, Mr.

Speaker, and their representation that could've avoided the spectacle of a governing party of Manitoba taking a million dollars from taxpayers at a time when they can least afford it. So we call on them to acknowledge that error and repeal that provision of Bill 37. Mr. Speaker, these are but two examples of decisions that can still be reversed to demonstrate clearly to Manitobans that the government is on their side, that its priorities are the same as theirs, and that they're not here to be self-serving, but they're here to be in the service of the people who put them into power. Mr.

Speaker, more broadly, we have had, over the last nine years and in particular over the period of time since the 9/11 terror attacks, an opportunity in an environment of rapidly rising revenues to the provincial government to build the economy of the future, to put money away, to aggressively pay down debt and to prepare our province for any contingency that could arise including the predicted economic downturn that we are in today. As a result of the government's failure to apply these record revenues over the last nine years to more aggressively pay down debt, our total debt, Mr.

Speaker, has gone up, when it should've gone down as it has in other provinces, and that total debt today, including Crown corporations, is now approaching $20 billion or $16,600 for every man, woman and child in Manitoba. So, if you look at it, we have $535 coming out of every pocket in Manitoba for the ill-conceived, wasteful power line decision. We've now got a burden of $16,600 on every single Manitoban man, woman and child as a result of this government's failure to more aggressively pay down debt when times were good. Mr.

Speaker, we also have seen, under this government, a failure to fix our financial roof when the sun was shining and to put more money away into our province's savings account, the Fiscal Stabilization Fund, which today stands at only $670 million available for general purposes, which is a mere $559 for every man, woman and child in Manitoba. By contrast, Mr.

Speaker, and this is a number the government has been touting a lot in public and it sounds like a big number until you realize that Saskatchewan, our next-door neighbour, has almost $2 billion in its rainy day account, and it's paid its debt down rather than letting it rise down to now under $5 billion in general purpose debt, less than half the amount of taxpayer-supported debt of the Province of Manitoba. Less than half the debt.

Three times the amount of money in the savings account in Saskatchewan meaning that the people of Saskatchewan have six times the financial protection of the average citizen in the province of Manitoba as a result of the failure to plan and the failure to prepare for what we're heading into today. * (15:00) Mr.

Speaker, as a result of all of this, as a result of these failures and missed opportunities, the total debt of Manitoba is now 30 times higher than the amount sitting in the savings account–30 times the debt that we have sitting in the savings account as we face what many are now saying will be the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. Mr. Speaker, the government is saying that everything is going to be fine, that there's nothing to worry about, that there is nothing that is required in terms of a rethinking of our position.

We would say that–well, we would certainly not counsel panic and we would certainly not counsel signals that would be negative for our economy. We would say it is time for the government to face reality, to come clean with Manitobans and to explain clearly how it is that we're going to get from where we stand today to where we want to be some three or four years from now as we were predicted to be emerging from the current downturn. Now, Mr.

Speaker, the other issue that we face as a province today in addition to new debt is new dependency that's been brought to us by the New Democrats, and that new dependency is something that could have been avoided had the government taken the last nine years to invest in the economic engine of our province, to take some of the bounty

56 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 24, 2008 flowing from Ottawa and invest it in making a more competitive tax regime, in investing in the basic infrastructure of our province and ensuring that our education system was seco nd to none. Instead, we have Maclean's rankings which continue to show Manitoba universities falling at the back of the pack. We have an ongoing problem with infrastructure compared to other provinces.

We have a current payroll tax that is out of line and a signal that we are a province that punishes those who create jobs rather than supporting and rewarding companies who want to create jobs and invest here in Manitoba.

Now, fortunately we have loyal, long-time Manitoba companies and business people who've made the decision to stay, in some cases to grow and to expand their reach into the world over those years in spite of the fact that they didn't have the level of energetic and aggressive reform that could have taken place over the last nine years had the government been prepared to do what was needed to build our province's economic engine. As a result of that, our dependency on transfer payments from Ottawa has grown from 28 percent of our revenue in 1999 to 37 percent of our income today.

More than one in three dollars flowing into the general revenues of the Province of Manitoba now comes through a combination of equalization and transfer payments. It is a record level of dependency, Mr. Speaker, that has created an unacceptable level of risk and vulnerability to Manitobans as we look at what's happening to those provinces who historically have been there to support Manitoba through equalization payments.

In particular, as we see what's happening in Alberta, B.C., Saskatchewan, Ontario and Newfoundland, the provinces that have sent cheques our way, we know that we can't continue to depend on the good will and the financial performance of those other provinces as they face their own economic challenges and we, as a consequence, become more and more vulnerable in terms of our revenue to changes that are taking place in those other provinces. So, as a result of all of this, Mr.

Speaker, the cumulative effect of nine years of drift and results that would range from poor at the worst to mediocre at best, Manitoba enters into this new and uncertain phase in our history with a balanced and diverse economy, many loyal businesses who have done well and are prepared to continue to do well, but businesses and investors who are burdened by provincial finances that are limited by new debt and record dependency on Ottawa. This is a burden that need not have been there had this government been prepared to fix the roof while the sun was shining over the last nine years. Mr.

Speaker, against this backdrop the government introduced a Throne Speech on Thursday that contained a lot of new spending, much of it disconnected re-announcements of old promises that they have to date failed to keep, and that speech set out some initiatives that, as I have said, we support and agree with. However, Mr. Speaker, the speech failed to demonstrate how it is, at some stage down the road after we get through the current economic challenges, that we as a province are going to pay for all these new spending announcements. What is the economic vision?

Where's the engine that's going to generate the wealth to pay for all of the items that have been itemized in this warmed-over buffet of items contained within the Speech from the Throne. Mr.

Speaker, as we enter this new phase of uncertainty, Manitobans were looking for a sense of vision and plans that would help achieve that vision for the economy of the future, that would build on traditional areas of strength such as agriculture, which is a sector that we know this government doesn't particularly appreciate and which has been punished by various means over the years by this government, food sciences, aerospace, mining, another sector which is burdened by the policies of this government, transportation and other traditional sectors of the economy, but also a vision and some boldness to set out the possibilities that will exist as the world economy goes through a fundamental period of transformation, to attempt and to have the courage to envision new opportunities in manufacturing, clean-energy research and development, and modern transportation built on clean electricity, all of which could flourish around a new state-of-the-art inland port, an inland port which has been tepidly endorsed and reluctantly advanced by this government, even as other provinces have moved full speed ahead to establish themselves as the place for the newest inland port in western Canada.

Mr. Speaker, Manitobans expected and deserved a speech that would strongly address their current fears and anxieties about the security of their pensions. In this post-Crocus environment when the security of their pensions is again in question and the security of the jobs of those who are not yet retired are at some potential risk in the context of this global

November 24, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 57 downturn, instead of a plan that would strongly address those fears and anxieties, what they got were vaguely worded and unconvincing assurances that everything is going to be just fine, provided nobody asks too many questions. Mr. Speaker, the Speech from the Throne made reference to deregulating pension regulations in the province of Manitoba in order to do certain things.

Now we support the goals th at are contained within the Speech from the Throne to deal with the pension issue in a way that doesn't cause otherwise-healthy companies to go out of business as a result of problems with their current balance sheet because of the economic downturn and the decline in values. We also don't want to see current pensioners negatively impacted as a result of what is happening.

What we do fear is that the government has failed to learn the lessons of Crocus which is that, rather than confronting a problem head-on and being open and transparent about the current state of our finances, the government decides instead to amend regulations to allow them to continue to cover up systemic problems that will, at some point, result in catastrophic financial and economic outcomes at some point down the road.

It's important as we meet the current challenges that we don't sacrifice the next generation of Manitobans and don't unnecessarily burden future governments, whatever their political stripe, with financial messes that could have been foreseen today and that could have been headed off if the government had the courage to be honest and open and transparent in terms of the current state of these accounts and had the courage to lay out a plan and a strategy for dealing with those issues.

We are concerned that that line in the Speech from the Throne is a signal that the government is aware of circumstances where companies and organizations may be technically insolvent today, but they are not prepar ed in a macro sense to lay out the extent of the issues and the strategy for navigating those challenges as we go ahead.

It seems instead that the strategy is keep a lid on it, cover it up, tell everybody that everything is fine, just as they did in the lead-up to the Crocus collapse, and then hope that they're long gone before the problem comes to the surface and blows up in the faces of the next generation and those governments who are going to be required to deal with those issues. It is not good enough to cross your fingers and hope the markets recover. These are factors that we don't have control over.

It's important that the government be transparent about the current state of pensions in the province and be prepared to address in a constructive and proactive way the implications of those disclosures in a way that doesn't pit the needs of the current generation against the needs and the requirements of generations to come.

As politically tempting as that would be for any government, to want to keep a lid on current problems and have them blow up at some point down the road, we would hope the government would have courage to do the opposite, acknowledge the challenges and lay out a strategy for dealing with them. * (15:10) So we are very concerned about the implications, Mr. Speaker, of those changes to pension regulations in Manitoba, which may make the pension situation more opaque than it should be otherwise.

We want it to be clear and transparent so that Manitobans have a true picture of where we stand today and can begin to plan accordingly. Mr. Speaker, there have been experts that have weighed in on this fundamentally important issue. When you consider the financial implications, which would be in the billions of dollars of some of these circumstances, we believe it's important to heed the warnings and take the advice of experts, including experts such as the former federal banking regulator, Nick Le Pan, who made comments in front of the Economic Club of Toronto last week.

He said in those comments that it was important that the rules that are currently in place that allow for transparency on a quarterly basis be left in place. He said, and I quote: "Suspension of the rules is likely to lead to even more opacity and might further undercut confidence." They also said that the techniques that are being used are allowing investors and retirees and others to have the same access to information as those who are managing funds and managing companies. He asked the question: Why shouldn't shareholders and others have access to the same information as the insiders? Mr.

Speaker, that is a point that we cannot disagree with, and we worry that the deregulation of pensions which is being proposed by the government is along the lines of the decisions that were made by the past American administration which decided that instead of dealing with the problem that was emerging and that many we re aware of within the

58 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 24, 2008 credit markets, they would turn a blind eye and hope those involved would be able to work their way out of it without the public being aware of the problems that they were heading into. That is the wrong approach. We need to learn the lessons of history and not repeat it here in Manitoba. For that reason, Mr. Speaker, we cannot support changes to the pension regulations that are going to decrease the amount of transparency for Manitobans, but we will support changes that keep companies moving and that protect retirees.

We need to do so in a balanced way and we await the details of those proposals and we await so me transparency on the part of government before we offer further detailed comment on those issues. I was somewhat taken aback that the Premier (Mr. Doer) would go back and recycle the lines in question period that he used on Friday morning, recycled the lines that he used when members on this side of the House started asking questions about Crocus. He said on Friday it was the most reckless set of questions he'd ever heard from an opposition member in all of his time .

It was almost word for word what he said when members started asking questions about Crocus some years ago, and look where we ended up as a result of that, Mr. Speaker. So we will not back off from asking those questions, and we will not be bullied or intimidated by those sorts of responses into leaving this issue alone. Mr. Speaker, the speech raises significant red flags, contains individual initiatives that we can support, but it fails on the test of laying out a vision for how we meet the current challenges and emerge in the future as a stronger and better province. Mr.

Speaker, Manitobans expected and deserved a speech that would paint a picture of the economy of 2012 and beyond and an energetic plan to get us to the new Manitoba, but instead received a reheated serving of old and as yet unfulfilled promises. Mr. Speaker, the official opposition put forward a plan with clear priorities and a commitment to better results, and instead, what we got in the speech was a spending list with no sense as to whether the spending promises which the government is advertising as a bridge over troubled economic waters is a bridge to somewhere or a bridge to nowhere.

This speech would suggest that the bridge that's being offered with all this new infrastructure spending is a bridge to nowhere, and what we want is new spending that will be a bridge to a better Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, we asked for, and were disappointed to not see in the speech, a vision for growth that would ensure that current spending would be paid for by new growth as opposed to what the government is offering which appears to be more debt, lower savings, and diminished hope for the next generation of Manitobans. Now, Mr.

Speaker, as I've said, the speech contains many positive steps that are completely unrelated to the economy. These are some commendable goals that we share. However, the failure to address the overarching issue of our time, which is our economic security, means that we will support many of the specific initiatives in the speech while we will not endorse the speech itself. The ongoing failure on the part of the Premier (Mr.

Doer) and the government, as well as his ministers, to accept resp onsibility for systemic failures and broken promises in health care, child and family services, public safety and the economy, leaves Manitobans with little confidence that the newest round of promises and announcements will be achieved with any better results than the broken promises and failure to deliver on past promises made. We think, for example, the past promise to end hallway medicine, to fix Child and Family Services. We remember the announcement at Maple Leaf Distillers about how this was going to create jobs for Manitobans.

The Ainsworth Lumber announcement that was rolled out–and we have a bad feeling that today's announcement will meet the same fate as the Ainsworth announcement which, some months later, with barely a mention, was withdrawn and crated. So we are concerned that the speech failed to paint a picture of a better future based on the shared commitment and energy of our diverse population of First Nations and Métis people and the succeeding ways of immigrants who bu ilt our province together.

The speech failed to address the specific issues and concerns of new immigran ts as well as our First Nations and Métis people who may be more vulnerable to an economic downturn than many others in our community. They and all Manitobans have been let down by a government who has again announced hundreds of millions of new spending in order to get short-term headlines rather than to summon our people to a higher purpose, a stronger province and a more hopeful future.

November 24, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 59 For all those reasons, Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member for Lakeside (Mr. Eichler), THAT the motion be amended by adding at the end the following words: But this House regrets: (

a) That the government's Throne Speech fails to acknowledge that provinces, nations and civilizations rise and fall on the strength or weakness of their economies; and (

b) That the speech fails to recognize that a strong economy is a prerequisite for a united province that offers safe communities, effective health care, first-class education systems, leading-edge environmental protection, healthy families and communities and the safety-net programs that protect our seniors, the poor and the vulnerable; and (

c) That the speech fails to take into account that for the past nine years, and particularly since the brief downturn that followed the 9/11 terror attacks, the government has failed to do enough to build Manitoba's economy and protect its finances; and (

d) Out of those failures and missed opportunities, include the catastrophically wasteful directive to Manitoba Hydro to waste a minimum of $640 million, or $535 for every man, woman and child in Manitoba, on the longer, less reliable, less green, west-side transmission corridor, and the self-serving Bill 37 vote tax, which will take $1 million from taxpayers over four years and put it in the pocket of the New Democratic Party; and (

e) That, as a result of th e government's failure to apply the record revenue increases that it's enjoyed over the past nine years to more aggressively pay down debt, Manitoba's total debt has gone up when it should have gone down, and our total debt, including Crown corporations, is now approaching $20 billion, or $16,600 for every man, woman and child in Manitoba; and (

f) That, as a further consequence of the government's failure to fix our financial roof while the sun was shining, the fiscal stabilization fund, our savings account, has only $670,215,000 available for general purposes, which is a mere $559 for every man, woman and child in Manitoba. By contrast, Saskatchewan now has almost $2 billion in deposits, triple the protection that is available to Manitobans; and (

g) That, as a result of the government's failures and missed opportunities, the total debt is now 30 times higher than the balance in our savings account; and (

h) That, as a result of th e government's failure to build our economic engine during good times, Manitoba now relies on transfer and equalization to the tune of 37 percent of our income, which has increased from the 1999 level of dependency of 28 percent. This has created an unacceptable level of risk and vulnerability for Manitoba's finances, as the sources of those transfers, provinces like Alberta, B.C., Saskatchewan, Ontario and Newfoundland, experience their own economic challenges; and (

i) That, as a result of the cumulative effect of nine years of failure, drift and poor-to-mediocre results, Manitoba enters this new and uncertain phase in our history with a balanced and diverse economy that is burdened by provincial finances that are limited by new debt and new dependency; and * (15:20) (

j) That Manitobans expected and deserve a Throne Speech that would set out a vision for the economy of the future, building on traditional areas of strength such as agriculture, food sciences, aerospace, mining and transportation, and also daring to envision new opportunities in manufacturing, clean-energy research development and modern transportation built on clean electricity, all of which could flourish around a new state-of-the-art inland port which has been tepidly endorsed and reluctantly advanced by the government; and (

k) That Manitobans expected and deserve a speech that strongly addressed their current fears and anxieties about the security of their pensions in this post-Crocus environment and the security of their jobs in the context of a global downturn, but instead received vague and unconvincing assurances that everything will be fine; and (

l) That Manitobans expected and deserved a speech that painted a clear picture of the economy of 2012 and beyond and an energetic plan to get us to the new Manitoba, but instead received a reheated serving of old and as yet unfulfilled promises; and (

m) That the official opposition asked for a plan with clear priorities and a commitment to better results, but instead received a spending list with no sense as to whether the spending promises, advertised as a bridge over troubled economic waters, was a bridge to somewhere or a bridge to nowhere; and

60 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 24, 2008 (

n) The speech failed to se t out a vision for growth that would ensure that current spending would be paid for by new growth as opposed to what the government is offering, which is more debt, lower savings and diminished hope; and (

o) The speech contains many positive steps unrelated to the economy, such as protecting children from second-hand smoke and more promises related to the environment, which are commendable goals that are shared by the official opposition. However, the failure to address the overarching issue of our time, our economic security, means that the official opposition will support many of the specific initiatives in the speech, while not endorsing the speech itself; and (

p) The ongoing failure on the part of the Premier (Mr. Doer) and government ministers to accept responsibility for systemic failures and broken promises in health care, Child and Family Services, public safety and the economy leaves Manitobans with little confidence that the newest round of promises and announcements will be fulfilled with any better results than promises of the past such as hallway medicine, fixing Child and Family Services, the collapsed Maple Leaf Distillers and Ainsworth Lumber deals and the others in the growing litany of failures; and (

q) The speech failed to paint a picture of a better future based on the shared commitment and energy of our diverse population of First Nations, Métis peoples and the succeeding waves of immigrants who have built our province together. Furthermore, the speech failed to address–[interjection] Mr. Speaker, Howard Dean and the screamers opposite will get their chance when their time comes. Mr. Speaker: Order. When moving an amendment, it has to be read word for word. When you add something to it, it could cause the amendment to be out of order.

So I would be very, very careful here because it's supposed to be just read word for word. Mr. McFadyen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will withdraw the comments about Howard Dean and the screamers opposite having their chance to speak shortly. Returning to where I left off. Furthermore, the speech failed to address the specific issues and concerns of new immigrants as well as our First Nations and Métis people.

They and all Manitobans have been let down by a government who has again announced hundreds of millions in new spending in order to get short-term headlines, rather than summon our people to a higher purpose, a stronger province and a more hopeful future. AND AS A CONSEQUENCE, THE GOVERNMENT HAS THEREBY lost the trust and confidence of the people of Manitoba and this House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Leader of the Official Op position, seconded by the honourable Member for Lakeside (Mr. Eichler), THAT the motion be amended by–dispense? An Honourable Member: Dispense.

Mr. Speaker: Dispense. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The amendment is in order. We will have the next speaker. Mr. Doug Marti ndale (Burrows): Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak against the amendment to the motion to the Speech from the Throne. I would be remiss if I did not begin by paying tribute to my late colleague, Oscar Lathlin. We were born just a few days apart in the same year, 1947, and we were both elected on September 11, 1990, and so we were colleagues for 18 years. Oscar was one of those people who was very proud to be a First Nations and very proud to be a northerner.

I was invited to join him on three occasions in northern Manitoba. The first time, when I was in opposition, he gave me a tour of Opaskwayak Cree Nation. It was very interesting and very educational for me, because it's a very progressive community and he pointed out things that were initiatives that he started when he was chief there.

The second time, when he was the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, I accompanied him on a tour that included Dauphin, Swan River, The Pas and Thompson, and spent two or three days together, which was very educational and enlightening for me because we went to his offices in those communities. We went to friendship centres, and I had a chance to observe him interacting with his staff and realized what respect they had for him as their minister.

November 24, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 61 I remember also, I believe it was after the 1993 Tory budget when all of the funding to every friendship centre in Manitoba was eliminated, I believe 14 friendship centres, and we visited friendship centres and I remember our leader saying that when we formed government we would renew funding to friendship centres. Indeed, when we got elected as government in 1999, that was one of the first things we did, I believe in our first budget, was to restore the funding to all those friendship centres.

So it was with shock and sadness that I and my colleagues heard of the death of Oscar Lathlin. Many of us were privileged to go to The Pas and to attend the funeral service for him which was a very moving occasion. There were very moving and appropriate speeches made paying tribute to him. Of course, we will get to say more in the condolences debate. So this Throne Speech comes at an interesting time for anyone who's in government in North America or almost any country around the world, and puts interesting challenges in front of governments, but I think we are well positioned to face any downturn in the economy.

For example, our projected growth rate for 2009 is 1.6 percent ahead of the 0.7 percent rate projected for Canada as a whole. Because of our balanced and responsible fiscal policies over the last nine years, we have a measure of security in the current economic upheavals. We've reduced our net debt-to-GDP ratio by roughly one-third. We've earned six credit upgrades and produced a succession of balanced budgets while lowering taxes and nearly quadrupling the value of the rainy day fund. I believe that our government is doing the right thing by carrying on with tax relief.

I know that low- and middle-income families in my constituency will be glad that the tax breaks many of them have been counting on will be delivered as promised, and we are going to protect the assets of Manitobans. People are anxious–and that's understandable–but we are going to make pension regulations more flexible. We're going to keep tabs on the housing market and introduce legislation to strengthen regulation of the mortgage broker industry. I think this is rather interesting because in the last session we listened to opposition members debate.

I believe it was a resolution, and I don't remember the topic, but they were saying deregulate, deregulate, which is just the opposite of what everybody in the world is saying now. People are saying the problems that we're in now was because of deregulation in the United States. So they want to go down that route. We say no, we need to regulate in the public interest and to protect people's investments and protect people's assets. This is important that governments do that and not follow the George Bush example and all the trouble that that got him into.

I should look up that speech and see what members opposite said about deregulation, but certainly they're not reading the financial pages of a newspaper or they would know better than to talk about deregulation in today's economy. We've watched foreclosures in the United States, and so in the Throne Speech there was an announcement about a consumer finances education program. I would have to say when I was in high school, probably the best course that I took was a course in consumer finance education. It happened to be called business practice, and one of the things that we studied was household budgeting.

I remember our teacher, who was a very good teacher, one of the things that he got us to do as students was to figure out the principal interest and taxes on a mortgage. We would be given a particular amount of a mortgage and we'd have to figure out the monthly payments over a 20-year mortgage or a 15-year mortgage, and by doing that it made us realize how much you pay in interest. In fact, at the beginning, of course, you're paying more on interest than the principal and– An Honourable Member: How long is the mortgage on Manitobans going to last, Doug? * (15:30) Mr.

Martindale: Well, I'll get to that in a minute. So, when I became a homeowner and had a mortgage, we were able to pay them off–two mortgages in very–well not, I wouldn't say quickly, but we paid them off far sooner than they were originally taken out for, and, of course, we saved a lot of money. That was a very smart thing to do. Recently, I happened to be at a banquet. I was sitting beside a former executive of MTS. We got talking about investments.

I mentioned to him that when I was given, and all of us were given RSPs by the provincial government that, as members of the Legislature, some people invested in mutual funds and they lost a lot of money. Some people invested in the stock market and they lost a lot of money. I put mine into a very conservative investment: I put all of my money into GICs. What happened to my money

62 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 24, 2008 between 1995 and 2004, I made money and other people lost money. So this former CEO from MTS shook my hand to congratulate me on my conservative investment policy, which is what I called it. A lot of people, hopefully, have learned a lot of lessons about investing in very risky things like sub-prime mortgages which are causing so many problems. Now, there are some things that we are doing which I think are very helpful and are going to be helpful going forward, which are going to create jobs, such as investing in infrastructure.

We are going to speed up some of those projects. We're going to invest more money in infrastructure. Some of that money is going into my constituency and it's making a difference. For example, we spent over a million dollars at Gilbert Park which is Manitoba Housing Authority public housing. It is making a big difference. One of the reasons why we needed to do that was that Manitoba Housing was unfunded by members opposite when they were in government.

I believe the annual budget for maintenance and repairs for Manitoba Housing was about $12 million a year, and in fact what they needed was about $25 million a year. Which is what we call the infrastructure deficit. We saw the same thing in education where the former government did not spend enough money in renovating and improving schools so there was a huge infrastructure deficit. Now we're taking care of some of those deficits and creating jobs and actually saving money. For example, there's a program called BUILD. They have an office on Dufferin Avenue in the North End.

They began working in the Centennial neighbourhood. They hired people who are on social assistance. They trained them to do insulation and other things to upgrade these homes and to conserve energy, replacing toilets, putting in low-flow showerheads. Now they're expanding to other neighbourhoods in Winnipeg. We're hoping that they're going to go to Gilbert Park. The staffperson told us that if they insulated the basements and if they change d the toilets to use less water and changed the showerheads, they could save Manitoba Housing $200,000 a year in utility bills. Now doesn't that seem like a good idea?

Take people off social assistance, give them some skills, give them a job so they earn income, save Manitoba Housing money, save the tenants money. Now what's happening is these people are getting jobs elsewhere in the private sector because they have some skills; they can go work for construction companies. So it's a win for the taxpayers; it’s a win for the individuals. [interjection] Well, the members opposite seem to be opposed to saving money which seems rather strange to me, but we are going to invest in infrastructure, create jobs and save money all at the same time.

The construction industry will benefit from our commitment to develop multi-year capital plans for health care, education, highways and water management. As the Throne Speech points out, these investments will also give the economy a boost at a crucial time. Another investment is CentrePort Canada which is a co-operative effort of three levels of government. Then there's the tri-level Winnipeg Partnership Agreement that has been a huge success. We're going to undertake to work with Ottawa and the city to renew the agreement.

It also includes a commitment to re-introduce the tax increment financing legislation as it will stimulate many urban renewal projects. The speech notes the synergy that is being developed among the floodway expansion project, the construction of an east-side, all-weather road, and future Hydro projects. This is a true, made-in- Manitoba advance that will advance the interests of not just northern and Aboriginal Manitobans, but all Manitobans.

One of the important things about building a transmission route down the west side of the province is that we hope that the boreal forest on the east side will be made a UNESCO Heritage project. Recently, I visited a UNESCO Heritage project that is in the community of Lunenburg in Nova Scotia, and all the houses there–and the old town of Lunenburg where some of the houses are 200 years old–are a UNESCO Heritage site.

The amount of income that this generates for the town of Lunenburg is unbelievable because they get tourists there from all over the world and, not only do they visit the Bluenose II and the Maritime museum, but they shop in the stores and the boutiques and they eat in the restaurants. Having a UNESCO Heritage site is a great boon to the community of Lunenburg. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Martindale: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was having trouble concentrating there. So, I think that there are many advantages to making the boreal forest of Manitoba a UNESCO World Heritage site, not only preserving the boreal

November 24, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 63 forest, but providing opportunities for ecotourism and having people from all over the world visit just like people from all over the world come to Churchill to see polar bears, which is something that my wife and I did in July of this year, and we weren't expecting to see polar bear s. We came to see beluga whales and we saw lots of beluga whales, but we were very fortunate becaus e we also saw three polar bears, and I would recommend that to anyone.

In fact, we took the train all the way to Churchill and all the way back which is a pretty long trip; 1,700 kilometres, very slow, two days and two nights there and two days and two nights back. But we had a very enjoyable visit to Churchill. Of course, when you go to Churchill, you need to ask people if they know the Speaker of the Manitoba Legislature because anyone who's the same generation as him, they all know our esteemed Speaker. Now, there are some things that we've been making headway on that I would like to report on briefly, and one of those is in poverty reduction.

We've reduced the child poverty rate by over one-third and one factor behind this success has been the provision of more training and education opportunities enabling parents to participate fully in the work force. I find it encouraging that even more of the opportunities are going to be provided under our Rewarding Work program. We can't fight poverty without dealing with housing issues, and so I laud the Throne Speech's undertaking to upgrade existing public housing units.

I've been talking about how that's happening in Gilbert Park, but it's going to happen in many other places as well, and older homes are going to be made more affordable by energy and water efficiency retrofits which I've already mentioned. Manitobans enjoy one of the best child-care systems in the country, yet as my constituents rightly point out, we need to increase our system's capacity. So it is welcome news in the Throne Speech that the government will be investing still more in funded child-care spaces and embarking on a new recruitment and retention drive for child-care workers.

Improving our child welfare system is a priority for Manitobans, and so we are implementing broad changes recommended by three independent reviews and introducing a computerized case management system which will help ensure that no child falls through the cracks. It was an NDP government that eliminated health-care premiums, and I am proud to say that the Throne Speech promises us legislation banning their reintroduction. State-of-the-art medical equipment not only improves patient care, but helps attract and retain medical specialists.

Manitoba can look forward to a doubling of our investment in specialized equipment over the next two years compared to the previous two years. On the environment, our government has made sustainable development a lynch pin of our economy. The Throne Speech makes reference to our leadership role in this area. Its economic significance was outlined just a few days ago in the federal Throne Speech which said that Ottawa would require that 90 percent of the country's electricity should come from non-emitting sources by 2020.

You know, it's interesting to have been around through sort of cycles, ec onomic cycles, and what kinds of messages different governments give. So, for example, we've had balanced budgets for nine years in a row and now that has become the norm, and yet, you know, the federal government who prided themselves on having balanced budgets and then a surplus, all of a sudden they give away the store and now they've changed their message, and they've got their spin doctors, their ministers and their Prime Minister out saying, well, a deficit would be okay.

I think the business community is probably going to support them in that just because they support the Conservative government, and, yet in this Chamber I don't think that's acceptable anymore. But it's going to be very interesting to see who gets the blame and what they attribute to the causes. * (15:40) Right now, they're just talking about declining revenue, but what about the fact that they gave away the store in the last federal budget–something like $50 billion in tax cuts, most of which went to the business community?

Of course, now they would say, well, that's a good thing because it stimulates the economy, but I think they'll also wear it because they are the ones that are going into deficit for the first time since, I believe, about 1996–[interjection]–well, I would have to say that, up until now, we've been going in the right direction because our debt-to-GDP has been going down, and the portion of our budget going to debt servicing has been going down. So we're certainly going in the right direction.

64 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 24, 2008 Many of my constituents are deeply concerned about the environment, have raised the issue of logging regulations in our province with me. I share their concerns, and so I am pleased with the Throne Speech assurances that the government is introducing a ban on new logging ventures in provincial parks and phasing out of existing operations. So, in conclusion, I will be voting against the amendment that we are debating now and voting for the motion regarding the Throne Speech. I believe this government is doing a good job.

A balanced government–we're going to continue to be that way. We're going to continue to introduce progressive legislation and progressive budgets and do the right thing for Manitobans, especially for my constituents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): First off, I want to thank you, Mr. Speaker, and the table staff for bringing us back into session and keeping us on line. We have a very short time line this time in order to debate the Throne Speech.

I understand our time's been 15 to 20 minutes, so I'll try and get through the message that I've got ready to put on the record here within those time lines to allow other people to speak. First of all, I want to congratulate the new members of Parliament that have been elected federally and also congratulate Steven Fletcher to the Cabinet federally. He certainly brings one more minister from Manitoba to the table, who, I think, did a great job representing those voices here in Manitoba. So certainly my congratulations to him.

Also the recent election of Shelley Glover to Parliament as well–I know she'll do a great job. She's a great advocate and one that we think is going to make Manitoba's voice heard in a substantial way in Ottawa, Mr. Speaker. Also I want to thank the people of Lakeside. This is my seventh response to the Throne Speech in this House, and certainly I take that responsibility very seriously and one that I don't take for granted.

It's certainly one that I do appreciate having that opportunity in this part of my lifetime to share with the people of Lakeside and bring their views to the Assembly here in the province of Manitoba. Also, our leader talked about some of the things that were actually good in the Throne Speech. One was the CentrePort that affects my particular part of the region; specifically, it's one that we have been calling for for a number of months and in the past year to move forward on. Certainly, I want to give the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr.

Lemieux) credit in allowing the R.M. of Rosser to be at the table, at least on the first board and the second board, one that I took very seriously. I'm glad that the minister allowed us to bring forward an amendment, that actually he brought forward in regard to allowing Rosser to move forward. We do have other concerns within respect of Rosser and that 20,000 acres has been allocated to that CentrePort. We know there's going to be substantial growth.

There'll be growth throughout Manitoba, in particular to the north of the city, which will have a significant impact on my particular riding and those communities surrounding those within the capital region, especially within Stonewall, Rosser, Grosse Isle, Warren, Stony Mountain and other great communities that I represent. So we're looking forward to the growth and, of course, the challenges that come with that and certainly hope that we on this side of the House will do everything we can in order to ensure that CentrePort does move forward in a timely manner.

Also those agreements that need be put in place through the City of Winnipeg and with the capital region, in particular the R.M. of Rosser, to ensure that that 60 percent of the tax base does remain in Rosser and continues to grow. Also, whenever we look at the Throne Speech, one of the things I was very concerned about was that of personal care homes , especially within my particular constituency. Teulon personal care home has been on the wish list. In fact, it's been approved once back in the early or late 1990s. Unfortunately, we had a change in government; it wasn't able to move forward.

We do have a commitment from the government that they're certainly looking a

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	39-3-3
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	39th 3rd hansardpdf 3.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	da8bb26e45ce9958c5d62274293b5a049e30ca24

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