Manitoba Hansard — 2 November 2020 (Sitting 12, 42nd Legislature, 3rd Session)

42-3-12

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXV No. 12 - 1:30 p.m., Monday, November 2, 2020 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ADAMS, Danielle Thompson NDP ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon. Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg, Hon. Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott Assiniboia PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MOSES, Jamie St.

Vital NDP MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REYES, Jon Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron, Hon. Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon.

Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

433 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, November 2, 2020 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosper ity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Please be seated.

Speaker's Statement Madam Speaker: I have a statement for the House. In light of the move to the code red level for the city of Winnipeg, I would like to advise the House and all members–or, pardon me, and all Manitobans, of the steps taken by the Legislative Assembly to provide additional measures for health and safety during sittings of the Legislature. By agreement of the government and opposition House leaders and the memb er for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard), the seating capacity and number of MLAs permitted to be present in the Chamber for legislative sittings is now reduced to 25 per cent.

This equates to the Speaker, 10 government MLAs, five official opposition MLAs and one Liberal MLA, with no switching of seats by the Liberal members allowed. All other MLAs will be participating in the legislative sittings by virtual means. The seating plan continues to apply on a week- to-week basis so that caucuses can alternate the ML As who are physically present in the Chamber.

In addition, the virtual component has been added to all three sections for the Committee of Supply for those MLAs who do not wish to be physically present to participate, and the previously agreed upon restriction of no more than six MLAs at a time in any one

section continues to apply. This has been facilitated in a timely manner , thanks to the excellent work of the virtual planning team and the head of Hansard recording and staff from media services. The restriction of six in each

section includes the Chair, the minister, one government member, two official opposition members and one independent Liberal, with the official opposition limited to one staff member in each of the three sections and the Liberals limited to one staffperson per caucus in the committee rooms. To clarify, the ministers and critics do not have to be physically present in the sections of the Committee of Supply. They have the choice to be physically present or to participate virtua lly. The Supply chairpersons will be present in each section.

We are living in unprecedented times and the Legislative Assembly will continue to be responsive and provide options to ensure the health and safety of MLAs and Assembly political and non- political staff working in the Legislative Assembly. And I would just like to thank all of those who have worked very diligently over the past few days and particularly also on the weekend to reach these decisions which have been put in place for the protection of health for all. Thank you. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 48–The Fiscal Responsibility and Taxpayer Protection Amendment Act Hon.

Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): I move, second by the Minister of Education (Mr. Goertzen), that Bill 48, The Fiscal Responsibility and Taxpayer Protection Amendment Act, be read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Fielding: I'm pleased to bill –to move Bill 48, The Fiscal Responsibility and Taxpayer Protection Amendment Act. Based on the language about our intent to–intent outlined in our recent Throne Speech, the bill will modify Manitoba's balanced budget plan to reflect the unprecedented fiscal challenges currently facing Manitobans as a result of the pandemic. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed]

434 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 2, 2020 Bill 49–The Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Amendment Act Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): I move, second by the Minister of Health, that Bill 49, The Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Amendment Act, now be read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Fielding: I'm pleased to move Bill 49, The Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Amendment Act. The–this legislation will modify or modernize the–Manitoba's freedom of information and pro- tection of privacy regimen.

As members will know, there's a requirement for a periodic review of the act and public consultations 'identifided' several recommendations to amend provisions of FIPPA. Amendments will be more reflective of modern - day information processes and mediums, and improve effectiveness of the administration of the act. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 54–The Personal Health Information Amendment Act Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): I move, seconded by the Minister of Justice (Mr.

Cullen), that Bill 54, The Personal Health Information Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Friesen: Madam Speaker, Bill 54 will amend The Personal Health Information Amendment Act. These amendments follow the five-year mandated review of The Personal Health Information Act, or PHIA, which ensures that PHIA continues to meet the needs of Manitobans and the trustees for personal health information under PHIA. The proposed amendments are intended to achieve this goal. They are based on the feedback received in the review as well as on the review of privacy legislation in other provinces.

Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 56–The Smoking and Vapour Products Control Amendment Act Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): Madam Speaker, I rise– sorry, I move, seconded by the Minister of Crown Services (Mr. Wharton), that Bill 56, The Smoking and Vapour Products Control Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr.

Friesen: Madam Speaker, Bill 56 will amend The Smoking a nd Vapour Products Control Act, which is a law of general application designed to address health issues and applies everywhere in the province. The amendments will seek to ensure that rules intended to protect Manitobans from second- hand smoke will apply uniformly throughout the province while, at the same time, of course, maintaining protections for the traditional or ceremonial use of tobacco. Madam Speaker: The honourable –oh. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 47–The Early Learning and Child Care Act Hon.

Heather Stefanson (Minister of Families): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Education (Mr. Goertzen), that Bill 47, The Early Learning and Child Care Act;

Loi sur l'apprentissage et la garde des jeunes enfants, be now read a first time. Motion presented. * (13:40) Mrs. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, I'm pleased to rise in the House today for first reading of Bill 47, The Early Learning and Child Care Act. COVID-19 has shown the need for great er support and improvements to Manitoba's child- care sector, particularly to benefit front -line workers and parents working non- standard hours.

This bill will include provisions that reflect our government's Throne Speech commitment to create a modern child- care system and funding model that will enable the child-care sector to grow in line with demand from Manitoba families. Madam Speaker, our government has stood up for parents since the beginning of this unprecedented public health emergency, and I'm pr oud to say that Bill 47 will allow our child-care system to better meet

November 2, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 435 the needs of parents and children throughout our province. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 40–The Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries Corporation Amendment and Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Crown Services): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fielding), that Bill 40, The Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries Corporation Amendment and Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act, be now read for a first time.

Motion presented. Mr. Wharton: Madam Speaker, Bill 40 will meet a commitment by allowing a wider range of businesses to retail liquor, saving Manitoban's money and assisting us in growing our economy. Currently,

section 34, liquor retail agreements, are limited to businesses in rural areas, Madam Speaker. This amendment will provide the opportu- nity for private businesses anywhere in the province to expand their retailing options to satisfy customer demands and will help modernize our liquor retailing system. Madam Speaker, this initiative is one step towards our government's priority to reducing red tape for businesses and to provide more c hoice and convenience for customers. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 45–The Public Schools Amendment and Manitoba Teachers' Society Amendment Act Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Education): I move, seconded by the Minister of Health , that Bill 45, The Public Schools Amendment and Manitoba Teachers' Society Amendment Act, be now read for a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Goertzen: I am pleased to do first reading of Bill 45, The Public Schools Amendment and Manitoba Teachers' Society Amendment Act. Manitoba is the only province in Canada where public teacher bargaining is done exclusively at the local level.

There are presently 38 separate collective agreements bargained directly between school boards and their teachers' associations. This bill will modernize Manitoba's approach to public teacher bargaining by introducing a single- tier centralized teacher bargaining model. The bill maintains a local bargaining for the division scolaire franco-Manitoba in respect of their unique manage - ment role in minority language school divisions, and the bill will not impact any collective agreements in place.

When the bill comes into force and existing– as exist ing collective agreements expire, school divisions and school associations will become party to the provincial agreement. The bill will modernize how teacher collective bargaining is conducted in Manitoba by streamlining the process and reducing duplication. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 64–The Education Modernization Act Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Education): I move, seconded by the Minister of Fam ilies (Mrs.

Stefanson), that Bill 64, The Education Modernization Act, be now read for a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Goertzen: I am pleased to do first reading of Bill 64, The Education Modernization Act. The bill will make changes to various acts to modernize our education system in Manitoba and ensure the education system is focused on providing the best possible outcome for students in Manitoba. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 62–The Animal Diseases Amendment Act Hon.

Blaine Pedersen (Minister of Agriculture and Resource Development): I move, seconded by the Minister of Municipal Relations (M s. Squires), that Bill 62, The Animal Diseases Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Pedersen: This bill will allow our farms and food processors to continue to produce world- class, safe and healthy foods in a humane way.

436 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 2, 2020 The bill will amend The Animal Diseases Act to protect farmers from persons who interfere with food production facilities that could result in harm to people, animals or the food supply, and to ensure that biosecurity is protected on the farm and through transportation and processing. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Is it the plea sure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 37–The Planning Amendment and City of Winnipeg Charter Amendment Act Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Municipal Relations): I move, seconded by the Minister of Families (Mrs.

Stefanson), that Bill 37, The Planning Amendment and City of Winnipeg Charter Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Squires: I am pleased to introduce Bill 37 to amend The Planning Act, the City of Winnipeg charter, and repeal The Capital Regio n Partnership Act to implement key recommendations in the planning, zoning and permitting in Manitoba report.

The bill will modernize planning processes, support a capital region economic growth plan, and ensure municipal governments make timely and transparent decisions on multiple private sector capital investment opportunities in their communities. This bill will help reduce duplication and unnecessary delays in planning to ensure Manitoba remains competitive and open for business and job growth. I am pleased to present this bill to the House for consideration. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 53–The Municipal Statutes Amendment Act

(2) Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Municipal Relations): I move, seconded by the Minister of Agriculture and Resource Development (Mr. Pedersen), that Bill 53, The Municipal Statutes Amendment Act (2), be now read a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Squires: I am pleased to speak to Bill 53, the municipal statutes amendment act. This bill will modernize provisions in relation to public hearings and notices under The Municipal Act, the City of Winnipeg charter, The Municipal Board Act and The Planning Act.

The bill will also enable small councils to effectively address violations of municipal codes of conduct through a majority vote. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 55–The Reducing Red Tape and Improving Services Act, 2021 Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Municipal Relations): I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fielding), that Bill 55, the redu cing red tape and improving services act , be now read a first time.

Madam Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Minister of Municipal Relations, seconded by the honourable Minister of Finance, that Bill 5 5, The Reducing Red Tape an d Improving Services Act, 2021, be now read a first time. Ms. Squires: This bill amends a number of statutes to remove unnecessary regulatory requirements and streamline provincial services that support Manitoba residents and organizations. The bill is part of our commitment to reduce the administrative burden on Manitobans and continue to grow our economy. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 41–The Fair Registration Practices in Regulated Professions Amendment Act Hon. Ralph Eichler (Minister of E conomic Development and Training): I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance, that The Fair Registration Practices in Regulated Professions Amendment Act now be read for a first time. Madam Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Minister of Economic Development and Training, seconded by the honourable Minister of Finance, that Bill 41, The Fair Registration Practices

November 2, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 437 in Regulated Professions Amendment Act, be now read a first time. * (13:50) Mr. Eichler: This bill will update Manitoba's fairness legislation to reduce barriers for qualified inter - national educated applicants to the 30 self -regulated professions. This will enable their credentials to be recognized faster, allowing them to start working on their professions, fill skill gaps in the labour market and fully contribute to our economy. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 61–The Apprenticeship and Certification Amendment Act Hon. Ralph Eichler (Minister of Economic Development and Training): I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fielding), that Bill 61, The Apprenticeship and Certification Amend- ment Act, be now read for a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Eichler: This bill will amend the apprentice and certification act to support a more flexible and responsive apprentice and certification program.

The changes respond to the 2018 Apprenticeship and Certification System Governance Review, which identified several transformation required to meet the current needs of industry. These modernizations support a more flexible, responsive and–apprenticeship and certification sys - tem, an important part of our efforts to sustain and grow Manitoba's economy through this pandemic era. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is it th e pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 42–The Remote Witnessing and Commissioning Act (Various Acts Amended) Hon.

Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Health, that Bill 42, The Remote Witnessing and Commissioning Act (Various Acts Amended), be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Cullen: This bill amends a number of statutes that provide for the witnessing or commissioning of certain legal documents under provincial statutes. We recognize that the ability of Manitobans to use videoconferencing or similar technology in the future will be beneficial, for example, in creating a will or buying a home.

This bill is certainly a step in the right direction, and I am pleased to present it to the House for consideration. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 46–The Court Practice and Administration Act (Various Acts Amended) Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Agriculture, that Bill 46, The Court Practice and Administration Act (Various Acts Amended), be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr.

Cullen: This bill will respond to requests from the judiciary to improve a number of administrative and procedural processes within Manitoba's three courts. Modernizing and improving the justice system in Manitoba continues to be a priority of our govern- ment, and this bill is another step in that direction. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 50–The Legal Aid Manitoba Amendment Act Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Education (Mr.

Goertzen), that Bill 50, The Legal Aid Manitoba Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Cullen: This bill updates provisions related to the tariff of fees paid to the private bar who administer services on behalf of Legal Aid Manitoba. The bill will provide Legal Aid Management Council the authority over the tariff, including the setting of fees. The amendments contained in this bill will allow Legal Aid Manitoba to be nimble in responding to access to justice issues and will provide them with an important tool to manage operations.

Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 51–The Limitations Act Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister for Economic Development and Training, that Bill 51, The Limitations Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented.

438 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 2, 2020 Mr. Cullen: Madam Speaker, limitations acts are important aspects of the civil justice system. They ensure parties do not delay unnecessarily in bringing lawsuits. This avoids problems with memories fading and key documents being lost. A new Limitations Act will give better certainty to parties, lawyers and courts. Most other provinces have already modernized their corresponding acts, and Manitoba is now doing the same. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 52–The Minor Amendments and Corrections Act, 2021 Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fielding), that Bill 52, the minor amendments and corrections act , be now read a first time. Madam Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Minister of Justic e, seconded by the honourable Minister of Finance, that B ill 52, The Minor Ame ndments and Corrections Act, 2021, be now read a first time. Mr. Cullen: Madam Speaker, this bill is a long - standing tradition in the Manitoba Legislative Assembly.

The minor amendments and corrections act shows our respect for the rule of law by correcting various typographical, numbering and minor drafting and translation errors identified by Legislative Counsel. This bill also contains minor amendments that are brought forward to a variety of acts. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 57–The Protection of Critical Infrastructure Act Hon.

Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance, that Bill 57, The Protection of Critical Infrastructure Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Cullen: The main purpose of this bill is to protect critical infrastructure if and when a protest harms or threatens to harm the public interest of Manitobans. Legislation would create a provincial offence for undue obstruction of critical infrastructure such as railways and highways. The legislation provides consequences that would prevent a resumption or reoccurrence of the obstructive behaviour.

The Manitoba government recognizes the rights of citizens to express views on issues and engage in peaceful protest. Those rights must be balanced with the rights of Manitobans to enjoy their property and preserve their livelihoods and access necessary services. This bill will take firm action to prevent blockades from creating risks to public safety or harming the economy. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 58–The Criminal Property Forfeiture Amendment Act Hon.

Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Education (Mr. Goertzen), that Bill 58, The Criminal Property Forfeiture Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Cullen: Madam Speaker, this bill amends The Criminal Property Forfeiture Act to significantly improve operational efficiency of the Criminal Property Forfeiture Branch.

The amendments wil l also provide the Criminal Property Forfeiture Branch, in the fight against organized crime and money laundering, with the critical legal tools and authority to identify and secure unlawful money before it can become untraceable in the day and age of smartphone banking. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] * (14:00) Bill 59–The Police Services Amendment Act Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Families (Mrs.

Stefanson), that Bill 59, The Police Services Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Cullen: The Police Services Amendment Act will amend The Police Services Act to enhance transparency, oversight and accountability in policing. The bill will provide clarity to police, address gaps in the current legislation and strengthen the Independent Investigation Unit.

November 2, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 439 This bill will ensure that Manitoba has the most effective independent police oversight agency in Canada. T he bill is another example of our commitment to implementing meaningful reforms that will guide the future of policing and police oversight and governance here in Manitoba. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 60–The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act

(2) Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Crown Services (Mr. Wharton), that Bill 60, the liquor, gaming and cannabis control amendment act, be now read a first time. Madam Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Minister of Justice, seconded by the honourable Minister for Crown Services, that Bill 60, The Liquor, Ga ming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act (2), be now read a first time. Mr.

Cullen: This bill will amend The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Act to establish a new licence category that would allow third -party companies to deliver liquor and cannabis on behalf of existing liquor retailers, service licensees and retail cannabis stores. This bill also includes provisions that would strengthen the LGCA's enforcement capabilities, establishing authority to employ minors and young persons who would attempt to purchase regulated products in order to allow the LGCA to monitor a licensee's compliance with prohibition's under -age sales.

Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 63–The Petty Trespasses Amendment and Occupiers' Liability Amendment Act Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Agriculture, that Bill 63, The Petty Trespasses Amendment and Occupiers' Liability Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Cullen: Madam Speaker, the main purpose of this bill is to better protect rural Manitoba residents from crime by improving Manitoba's trespass and occupiers' liability laws.

The legislation will include amendments to the petty 'trespasters' act to ensure the law is easier to enforce and to prevent confrontations between landowners and trespassers. Amendments to The Occupiers' Liability Act ensure a landowner's legal responsibility for injury is fair and reasonable when someone is on their property without permission. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Committee reports? Tabling of reports? Ministerial statements? MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Léo and Adèle Dubois Mr.

Bob Lagassé (Dawson Trail): Madam Speaker, I'm honoured today to introduce a special couple and to– Madam Speaker: We could ask the member –the honourable member for Dawson Trail –we can't hear him. I wonder if he has his headset there. [interjection] Okay, we'll come back. Housing Affordability Mr. Adrien Sala (St. James): Today I'd like to draw attention of the House to a silent driver of our growing affordability crisis –housing affordability crisis in Manitoba. During my first year as an MLA, our office learned of many apartment buildings in St.

James that were impacted by above -guideline rent increases approved through the residential tenancies board. Madam Speaker, all of these rent increases were 15 per cent or higher. People on fixed incomes, many of them seniors, were being driven out of their buildings because they couldn't afford these types of rent increases without sacrificing other essentials like food and medicine. To learn more about the scope of the problem, we submitted a FIPPA which found that, in 2019, 310 applications for above-guideline increases were put forward and every single application was approved.

In 2019 alone, 20,400 units in Manitoba had been affected, and of those units approximately 2,700 had seen rent increases of 20 per cent or more. It's quite clear that our system of rent controls is broken and that it's failing to balance the interests of everyday Manitobans and those of property owners. While we need to ensure there are investment incentives for the rental housing sector, our primary responsibility here should be to protect the overall

440 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 2, 2020 affordability of life in our province, and at this, Madam Speaker, our government is currently failing. In light of the growing housing affordability crisis in Manitoba, and given the incredible economic challenges being faced by Manitobans, it's my belief that the government should immediately place a halt on approving above-guideline rent increases. The government should revisit the residential tenancies board legislation to slow the pace of rent increases that will ensure rental housing remains affordable for seniors and people on fixed incomes in Manitoba.

Madam Speaker: I would now like to go back to Dawson Trail. Léo and Adèle Dubois Mr. Bob Lagassé (Dawson Trail): Madam Speaker, I'm honoured today to introduce a special couple and two Dawson Trail heroes. Léo and Adèle Dubois were long -standing residents of Lorette, Manitoba. Adèle was active in the church, while Léo was a town councillor, school trustee, gr and knight with the Knights of Columbus, as well as a hockey and baseball coach. Léo worked as a grader operator in the town and would wave to everyone. Their family describes Léo and Adèle as being good Samaritans.

They saw the good in others and always had a place at their table. I'm told no one ever left their house without something to eat or drink. Adèle passed in 2017, and her dying wish was that Léo would not get too lonely. The family honoured her wish and made sure Léo was never lonely right up until he passed on Christmas morning in 2019. The grandchildren of Léo and Adèle came up with an idea to honour their legacy by paying for a commemorative bench. On September 8th of this year, the commemorative bench was placed in front of la parish of Notre Dame in Lorette to honour the lives of these 61-year residents.

Please join me in honouring the memory of two wonderful Dawson Trail heroes, Léo and Adèle Dubois. Ste. Rose du Lac Mr. Brad Michaleski (Dauphin): While Manitobans are dealing with a global pandemic, there are still many good news stories happening across our great province. Last week, this strong Parkland community celebrated the unveiling of a new Zamboni, and I know this investment will serve the community and the surrounding region very well. Madam Speaker, I have a great privilege of representing the community of Ste. Rose du Lac in the Manitoba Legislature. Ste.

Rose du Lac is an essential region of Dauphin constituent and of Manitoba. I know this community holds great ideas and experience that can help the province to recover and develop positively from the global COVID -19 pandemic. Ste. Rose du Lac is Manitoba's cattle capital, and I know the cattle producers in this region form a significant part of Manitoba's good news li vestock story. Every year, Manitoba's cattle producers yield beef of the highest quality. They steward their livestock and the land with care.

I want to thank the community, Mayor Robert Brunel and council and, most importantly, the livestock producers f or their leadership. Their knowledge related to the beef industry is an invaluable resource. I also thank the producers who came to Ste. Rose this past summer to meet, discuss and share ideas with Manitoba's Minister of Agriculture and Resource Development (Mr. Pedersen). I would also like to thank my colleague, the minister, for making Ste. Rose a stop on his summer farm tour.

I thank the Pallister government and the – Manitoba's health leaders for their strong leadership during this pandemic, and for the PC government's unprecedented offer to listen and help the entire Dauphin region with regional economic development planning. Madam Speaker, Ste. Rose has a lot to offer, and it's really, really great to hear they got a new Zamboni. Homelessness in Wolseley Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): Homelessness in Wolseley is a challenging issue that has only been exasperated by the pandemic. People are camping on the properties of many businesses in the Wolseley constituency.

Stores and restaurants are used as warming shelters, and washrooms are used for bathing and drug use. Small businesses incur the costs associated with cleaning up their property once folks move on. The folks camping behind businesses, on the riverbank and in the parks of my constituency are human beings who deserve dignity but are forced to use public spaces as toilets. There have been several recent fires in the constituency as a result of people trying to get warm,

November 2, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 441 and last month, a community member died alone in a park where he was sheltering. His name was Tom. * (14:10) Recently, members of the West Broadway busi - ness association wrote to their representatives at levels of government to discuss the burdens they are shouldering with respect to marginalized members of our community. The C OVID-19 pandemic has escalated chronic issues. The added costs in order to operate safely mean that their thin margins are being stretched, yet they are left to cover the costs of homelessness as well.

Businesses already struggling to survive are using all available resources to help their unhoused neighbours while keeping their staff and property safe, but these efforts don't provide long -term solutions. Seventy-five per cent of respondents to a Wolseley community survey indicated that public bathrooms are desperately needed in our constituency. Community-serving agencies continue to call for adequate, secure, affordable housing, 24-7 safe spaces and 24-7 mobile mental health crisis response teams, and now the business association joins that call.

West Broadway business owners want to be part of the solution, but they can't do this alone. The provincial government must do its part with meaningful policy and action to mitigate poverty, homelessness and addictions. Thank you. Dr. Vince Crichton Mr. Alan Lagimodiere (Selkirk): Madam Speaker, I stand before the House today to recognize a very special individual known throughout the province and around the world as Doc Moose. Dr. Vince Crichton is best described as passionate, dedicated and committed to moose and moose management in Manitoba and around the world.

The son of a conservation officer, Vince pursued university degrees in both Ontario and Manitoba, obtaining a bachelor of science, a masters of science and a Ph.D. With these impressive academic credentials and extensive knowledge of wildlife, Vince Crichton began a career in wildlife management with the Province of Manitoba in 1972. Regional wildlife biologist, provincial moose manager, habitat manager,

section manager were just some of the many hats Vince wore in a 40-year career with the Province of Manitoba. Vince had an intense passion for moose and spent the majority of his career focusing on studying and understanding moose biology, physiology and habits. He became a world authority, the go-to man. Doc Moose led and participated in moose management research, conferences and symposiums across Canada and internationally. Dr. Vince Crichton's achievements have been many.

He was among the first wildlife managers in Manitoba to advocat e for the co -management of moose between First Nations and the provincial government. Doc Moose has made many appearances on both the Discovery Channel and Animal Planet. He has been the recipient of numerous awards, including Distinguished Moose Biologist Award, the 2014 Conservation Award from the Manitoba

Chapter of the Wildlife Society. Vince was the first ever recipient of the honorary moose hunting licence from the Manitoba Department of Agriculture and Resource Development. Madam Speaker, it is indeed a pleasure to honour Doc Moose, Dr. Vince Crichton, in our hallowed Chamber today. Thank you. ORAL QUESTIONS Pandemic Management Government Response Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, Manitobans have lost confidence in this Premier's ability to manage this pandemic. They've lost confidence in this Cabinet and this government's ability to manage the pandemic.

Over the weekend, we saw a remarkable scene, more than 1,100 new COVID cases in our province. We saw 15 Manitobans lose their lives. And where was the government in all of this? Where was the Premier? Where was the Minister of Health? Nowhere to be found. As small-business owners were standing up and demanding assistance so that they could make it through the month, where was the Premier? Nowhere to be found. It was a complete absence of leadership. Where was he, Madam Speaker? What was so important to the Premier this weekend that he didn't have time to talk about saving lives and saving livelihoods?

442 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 2, 2020 Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): On the job, Madam Speaker. I and my ministers have been focused on COVID. The member's seeking partisan advantage at the expense of the focus we need in this province to work together, to work in good faith with one another, to respect our health-care leaders and to give encouragement to Manitobans at a time they need it. Madam Speaker, this is a difficult time for all Manitobans.

The member shouldn't try to achieve a – try to achieve some partisan political advantage at the expense of the unity that we need right now to fight COVID. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Unity was there amongst everyone who showed up: Dr. Roussin, Lanette Siragusa, myself and others. We all showed up on Friday and over the weekend to issue a strong message to Manitobans to come together at this time. But where was Premier? Where was he?

What was he doing this weekend that was so important that he couldn't reassure Manitobans, that he couldn't bring forward a plan to save small businesses, even as new restrictions were being implemented with a laudable goal but that we know will have an impact on their viability? Madam Speaker, 180 physicians signed a joint letter saying that this government's penny -pinching ways are going to cost us more in the long run. We need to see a real response. We need to see real investment in health care. We need to see real invest- ments in order to preserve small businesses. When will we see a Premier in action? Mr.

Pallister: The member opposite stands on a weak platform. He can't even show up for court dates. So the fact of the matter is , we are, as a govern - ment, working diligently every day to address the issues of COVID. The issues raised by the physicians, for example, five of them, all five are being addressed as we speak and have been being addressed for some time. We have a plan that was developed over months of work by health-care leaders in respect of the issues that they raised as far as ICU space, which is there, which is available.

And all the member can come up with is alarmist behaviour and phony fear mongering and calling in the National Guard. Press releases, press conferences –that's fine, Madam Speaker. The member may be good at those things, but we're better at addressing the issues Manitobans want addressed, and they want a govern- ment that will address COVID. And they deserve an opposition that will too. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: What Manitobans want is leaders who will show up.

And history will record that in our darkest day of the pandemic, the Premier failed to show up. Again, there are seven points in the letter that the 180 physicians co- signed. Fi ve of them the government is failing on miserably, and the two additional ones they haven't even proffered any sort of response. Another top- of-mind consideration for Mani - tobans is, of course , the safety of our schools. It's remarkable that it–this point in the school year, during the rest of the city of Winnipeg moving to the red condition, that this government is still sitting on $85 million in federal funds. Do they have a plan?

No. Do they have teachers, additional classroom spaces? No. All they ha ve are dodges and phony lines. What is the harm in hiring more teachers? Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Mr. Pallister: The NDP threw their previous leader under the bus; they'll probably throw this one under the bus too, because he has a tendency to throw everybody under the bus, so I don't take this personally. The member talks about inaction.

The actions we've taken are: additional large sites over just the last two and half weeks that have increased our testing capacity by 40 per cent –done; additional evening testing sites: over 650 patients at the Dakota health centre already receiving testing as a consequence of that action; 10,000 Manitobans with an appointment booking system with the average wait being less than one minute. Those a re the actions we've taken. While the member is trying to score partisan points, we're focused on COVID. He should do the same. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question.

November 2, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 443 COVID-19 and Health Care PPE for Front-Line Workers Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): No, Madam Speaker, no. No, no, no, no. If this government had been focused on COVID, those measures would have been implemented in the summertime. If this government had been focused on COVID, a safer back -to-school plan would have announced prior to September 8th. If this government were focused on COVID, nurses wouldn't still be fighting for masks –masks, Madam Speaker.

Eight months into the pandemic, our front-line heroes are still beggin g a penny -pinching government for masks. No, scratch that. We're still begging this govern - ment to show up during Manitobans' time of need. * (14:20) How is it that this government could have exhausted eight months without bringing forward a real plan to guarantee protective equipment for those front-line heroes who need it, and what does he say to those who have contracted COVID in our hospitals as a result of their failure? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): While the member was vacationing all summer and cobwebs were forming on the door of his office, the Health Minister and I made over 100 appearances to the media to be accessible and transparent to the people of Manitoba. On every occasion, with every announcement, good or bad, the health leaders of our province led the way. After consultation with Manitobans we introduced the idea. Madam Speaker, we're continuing, not only to be available, to get action, to achieve results for Manitobans. The member talks about why we didn't have additional testing sites in July. We had no COVID cases.

That would've been idiocy. We're setting up additional testing sites and making them available to Manitobans as is needed now because this is when the demand is occurring, not just in Manitoba, everywhere around the world. And around the world, Madam Speaker, people are avoiding trying to be selfish and achieve partisan advantage at the expense of the unity that needs to occur in their jurisdictions. I encourage the member to do that now. Madam Speaker: The honourabl e Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Pandemic Response Summer Ad Campaign Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, I think maybe we've come a little bit closer to diagnosing the problem with the Premier. Apparently, he views preparing for the second wave of the pandemic as idiocy when, in fact, every expert around the world was saying that we ought to use the summer to increase testing capacity, to increase contact-tracing capacity and to increase ICU bed capacity to prepare for the inevitable resurgence of this silent enemy. And yet what was the Premier doing at that time?

Well, he was hanging a mission accomplished banner from billboards across the province: ready, set, grow. Doesn't sound too good to Manit oba businesses teetering on the edge, to those parents worried about students in class or to our health -care workers sitting on the edge. Will the Premier now admit that his summer ad campaign was a complete, utter mistake? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, the idiocy would be a member opposite who does so little research he can't even get the slogan right: Ready. Safe. Grow.

And immediately promoting safety in workplaces, promoting safe habits, promoting people practising physical distancing. All s ummer, Madam Speaker, while the case numbers were low, we were advocating for health measures that would protect Manitobans if they followed them, and they were. But, Madam Speaker, some of them aren't now. And so deterrents need to be brought into place, and this is what Dr. Tam has said federally; this is what Dr. Roussin is saying here. We're acting on that advice, not the advice of Dr.–I'm sorry, not Dr.

Wab; he's not a doctor; I don't mean to say that–but not the advice of someone who pretends to be a health expert and is not. That's the danger when the member stands up, makes things up, gets things wrong and tries to scare people. What we're focused on doing is addressing COVID, Madam Speaker. That's what Manitobans want. That's what they get with this government. Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would just encourage the member that inferring about idiocy across the way would probably not be something that is viewed to be very kind or parliamentary.

So I would just urge all members in the use of those words to be very careful in what they are saying.

444 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 2, 2020 The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. COVID-19 Financial Assistance Support for Small Business Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speak er, 180 physicians and Ph.D.s signed a letter condemning this government's approach, saying the fact that they're not willing to invest in public health, that they're not willing to invest in front-line health care, is the reason that the coronavirus pandemic is spiralling out of control.

And they say, again, that the government's No. 1 stated rationale, that the penny-pinching ways will cause us more pain in the long run. But what has been completely absent and remark- ably notably absent from a government that claims to be the friend of small business is any help whatsoever to help those small businesses impacted by this round of restrictions. We are calling on this government to bring forward $100 million in special, direct financial assistance for business this month.

Will the Premier stand in his place today and commit to bringing forward $100 million in direct grants for small businesses impacted by the restrictions for this coming month? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): We've already done that, plus, Madam Speaker. Over $160 million already and the largest and most supportive programs for small business, bar none in Canada, are here in Manitoba. Madam Speaker, the member speaks about penny-pinching. The fact of the matter is he was ready to spend money the –from the rainy day fund last Friday. He was–had all kinds of ideas on how to spend money from a rainy day fund.

The NDP raided it in good times: no money at all there. If the NDP had been in power, wouldn't have had any money to invest. Instead, we've invested it: $648 million more this year in health care than the NDP ever invented. Don't sound like penny-pinching to a common sense person in Manitoba. So the fact of the matter is, we are investing more and we're continuing to invest more in foc used ways to address the issues that Manitobans want addressed, and they want us to focus on COVID, not partisan gain.

Revera Personal-Care Homes Government Oversight of Facilities MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Madam Speaker, there were 15 deaths over the past four days and, as of today, six of those deaths were at Maples personal-care home. That's after 23 deaths so far at Parkview Place. We've been asking for the government to step in and take over care of Parkview Place for nearly a month, but the minister refused and, instead, he called those deaths unavoidable. We know that we need to stop the outbreaks in our PCHs. We need to make sure that every private, for-profit home is taken over by this government.

Will the minister make sure he d oes not fail any more seniors? Will he take over control of all Revera personal-care homes? Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): The member would do wise to stop continuously misquoting me and using words out of context. It does nothing to bolster their credibility, which is suffering right now. Madam Speaker, I'm happy to provide this – [interjection]–oh, unless the member for St. Johns (Ms. Fontaine) would like to provide the answer? Okay. I would like to provide this update.

I can indicate to everyone there's been no more cases in a 24 -hour period, that 28 workers have been hired at Parkview Place. There are now virtual visits happening daily. There are physicians on-site or virtual 24 hours of the day. There was a town hall meeting for all the families of individuals and residents there, and all of the cohorted people who have been cohorted are done so in private rooms. These are some of the updates that show the degree to which this is a focus: to keep health and safety at Parkview Place. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a supplementary question.

Call for In-Person Inspections MLA Asagwara: Madam Speaker, we know that families are desperate to know how their loved ones are doing in person al-care homes. They're worried sick about their mothers and fathers and elders in Parkview, Maples and other PCHs across the province. They need to know that those in personal-care homes are being cared for and also that there are in -person inspections be ing done by health experts, and they need to know that today.

November 2, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 445 The only way that we can know what's really going on in PCHs and–is for the government, rather, to step in and inspect each and every one. Will the minister take that action? Will he tell the House that every single Revera personal-care home in the province will have personal –in-person inspections, rather, today? Mr. Friesen: Madam Speaker, let the member be very clear what they are asking for.

If they are asking for in-person people to show up with clipboards in hand, even at the express direction of public health that that should not happen, let them say so. Manitoba–Manitobans know that we are standing up for them and keeping their focus on safety. Madam Speaker, I can tell all Manitobans t hat there will be more inspections undertaken. even during this COVID pandemic, than even before, more than last year. And I can also inform all members that there was an unannounced follow -up visit even at Parkview Place that took place just four days ago.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a final supplementary. Deaths in Personal-Care Homes Call for Emergency Response MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): The Premier (Mr. Pallister) has said that he is comfortable with the actions taken at Parkview Place. Madam Speaker, 23 residents have died, over 100 residents and staff infected. That is an absolute failure. * (14:30) We need immediate, decisive and emergency action to save lives. That's why we've been calling for the takeover of Parkview, Maples, and other personal- care homes, because the Premier's actions have failed.

The Premier needs to stop being comfortable and take action to save lives of Manitobans. Will the Premier get on Team Manitoba and treat this situation for the emergency that it is? Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): For the record, the member just also twisted again the words of the Premier on the record. Everyone is tremendously devastated at the lo ss of life that has taken place in Manitoba long-term care homes. That's why we are acting. That's why so much is being done to keep those residents safe.

I would say to all members of this Legislature, when it comes to the Maples situation all–we know that in that facility all the rooms are private. We know that everyone has been in their rooms, monitored, kept safe as a result of the precautions that have been taken and the precautions that will continue to take place in all of our long-term-care homes because we care and because we put the first emphasis on the safety of all Manitobans. COVID-19 and Education System Spending of Federal Funds Mr.

Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Madam Speaker, this is a stressful time for families and for our teachers who are supporting our children. Teachers have begun to speak out, saying they're exhausted and saying that they are, quote, at the end of their rope. There's simply no relief from this government. The Premier confirmed today that none of the $85.4 million in federal funding has made its way to school divisions. And over the weekend, MTS confirmed that federal money hasn't flowed, funds are collecting dust. In other provinces the money has started to flow, but not here.

I ask the minister: When will the fed eral funds actually begin to flow and when will schools begin to get the resources they need? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Education): I have no doubt that this is a challenging time for teachers, for EAs, for bus drivers, for janitorial staff, for everybody who is working within the school system. It is a challenging time generally for society and many different people who are taking on different roles that they never would have expected a year ago. But I say to all of those who are working in t he education system, and it was echoed by Dr.

Roussin last week, that the reason why schools are seeing relatively minimal transmission of the virus is because those individuals are doing an extraordinary job in an extraordinarily difficult time. Madam Sp eaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wiebe: Unfortunately, Madam Speaker, it's clear that this minister's priority continues to be only their bottom line and not our schools. This spring, for instance, he forced the layoff of nearly 8,000 people in our schools, and now he's forcing out remote learning staff who work in the Department of Education.

446 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 2, 2020 As we've said for months now, the Province needs a resource plan. Instead, what families are facing from the Pallister government is their true priority: first and foremost–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Wiebe: –above all else, to try to limit how much they spend. Why is the minister forcing out staff in the Department of Education–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Wiebe: –and when will federal funding actually flow to our schools? Mr.

Goertzen: Unfortunately, the member opposite– while I recognize that he's trying to make a point about the great work that is being done in our schools by the school s taff, and that is certainly true –is conflating that with misinformation when it comes to funding. We did say prior to the year –beginning of school that there would be $100 million available. I got the most recent report from September: 15-and-a-half-million dollars of that $100 million was spent by schools –$5.7 million on enhanced cleaning supplies, $1.4 million on transportation, $3.5 million on technology and another $3.5 million on staff.

Of course, there'll be another report in October and I expect similar numbers during that month. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a final supplementary. Wait Time for Test Results Mr. Wiebe: And yet this minister continues to force out staff in his own department and hold back from schools when they need it most. Teachers and education staff aren't getting what they need to be safe. One teacher told the media a similar story that we have heard continuing on in other places.

Once a positive test happens, a school has to wait for the positiv e test to be communicated to the school by public health. But they are waiting days, Madam Speaker, sometimes many days, for those results to come in. This undermines the contact tracing as well as the confidence that parents would have to be quickly informed. Parents have begun sharing their own information because of this minister's step back. Why is it taking so long to communicate those test results to the parents and the schools that need it most? Mr.

Goertzen: Madam Speaker, while I know the member opposite is critical of public health officials all the time, as are all the members on the other side, as indicated in the first answer there've been 15-and-a-half-million dollars in September alone of the money that was allocated spent within schools. I know that October will be similar numbers, and I'll be happy to share those numbers with the House when I receive them. The federal government has indicated that, of the money that they have committed to, half will not arrive in Manitoba until at least next year, Madam Speaker, at some point during next year.

For that money that they will flow this year, we absolutely will be spending that on similar items that I've already described and others, including staff. Correctional Facilities COVID-19 Spread Prevention Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Manitobans either living or working in correctional facilities are in the midst of a COVID -19 outbreak. Housed in Headingley, one Manitoban describes it as, and I quote, a complete outbreak where an entire unit has tested positive, Madam Speaker.

This same citizen also states, and I quote, people who are sick aren't coming forward because they are afraid of being put in segregation. That is what the Minister of Justice is offering Manitobans: segregation when they are sick and most at risk and need. I ask the minister: What is he doing to address this crisis at Headingley and other correctional facilities across Manitoba? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I do appreciate the opportunity to respond to this, because we have been working with our public health folks since day one of the pandemic here in Manitoba.

We have very strict protocols and policies in place to deal with the outbreaks that we've encountered over the last m onth, so a lot of safety equipment is being utilized. We've upgraded the PPE to medical status–medical-grade equipment. We continue with the cleaning. In fact, Manitoba leads the country in terms of the capacity to clean these facilities. So there's been a lot of work. We will continue to work with our staff and the inmates at our various facilities to make sure that public safety is paramount. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question.

November 2, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 447 Ms. Fontaine: And despite what the minister has just erroneously put on the record, there are outbreaks at Agassiz, the Manitoba Youth Centre, women's correctional facility, Brandon, Milner Ridge and the Winnipeg Remand, Madam Speaker. One resident says that people who are sicked aren't coming forward for fear of segregation, Madam Speaker. This is going to make it nearly impossible to contain the virus if the chain of transmission is not broken.

The residents, and many people, are proposing that all residents and staff be tested at all of our correctional facilities. Will the minister do this and ensure that everyone at correctional facilities get tested today? Mr. Cullen: Obviously, we're working closely with our public health officials, Dr. Atwal and his team working in corrections. We're following their advice. I will say, for the member's knowledge, we have done over 850 tests at our facilities. Obviously, those that are symptomatic will be offered a test, and hopefully they will take us up on that test.

I will say, obviously, we've enhanced the personal protection products there. We've enhanced our cleaning. And any individuals that do come down with a positive are isolated. Those cohorts are isolated. So it doesn't necessarily mean segregation, but certainly those that test positive are isolated from those non- positive. * (14:40) Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary. Ms. Fontaine: Last week, the minister said that there were about 1,900 Manitobans currently being housed in our c orrectional facilities. The minister just said that only 815 of those have been tested.

Madam Speaker, I remind everybody these are contained, isolated, overcrowded, above -capacity facilities that are ripe for the transmission of COVID -19. There simply isn't enough space in many facilities to isolate sick residents without double -bunking in other parts of facilities or putting them in segregation. This is a recipe for disaster. And I remind the minister that everybody deserves to be safe, regardless of whe re they are currently housed. I ask the minister: What is he going to do today to mitigate the transmission of COVID in all of our correctional facilities? Miigwech. Mr.

Cullen: Since day one, we've worked very closely with our public health officials, Dr. Atwal and his team. We've developed policies, procedures for situations exactly as we find ourselves in. We're taking their advice; we're acting on their advice. Obviously, individuals, if they are symptomatic are offered tests, and as I say, we've d one over 850 tests to date, and certainly we will continue to make sure that safety is first and foremost when it comes to both our staff and the inmates as well. Keeyask Generating Station Code Red Designation Request Mr. Adrien Sala (St.

James): We continue to hear of climbing case numbers at the Keeyask site. The government has the opportunity right now to get on top of this outbreak fast to try and control it to make sure we do everything possible to keep employees and neighbouring communities safe. Unfortunately, the Premier (Mr. Pallister) has made it pretty clear to Manitobans this morning that no new actions or initiatives will be taken to help people get through this difficult time financially. Given this, will the minister and his government at the very least take aggressive action to contain and control the outbreak?

Will they increase the Keeyask site to code red immediately? Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Crown Services): Again, protecting the safety and well -being of our staff and the c ommunities surrounding the Keeyask site, Madam Speaker, is priority one for this government, and I might add, Manitoba Hydro, as well, and their executive team working hard with stakeholders to ensure that proper protocols are in place to protect Manitobans in the North. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. James, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Sala: If people in neighbouring First Nations get sick, those individuals will have to come to Winnipeg, where we're already reaching capacity because of this government's cuts to health care. Fox Lake Cree Nation, Tataskweyak Cree Nation, War Lake and York Factory First Nations are all demanding the government step up and do their part and protect northern Manitobans.

448 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 2, 2020 We can't afford another outbreak that will further strain our system. Will the minister move the Keeyask site to red today? Mr. Wharton: Manitoba Hydro has been working closely, again, with senior health officials, Madam Speaker–because we'll take lessons from health officials and not the members opposite –who are providing direction and guidance on measures under- taken at Keeyask and, again, working in partnership with KCN and other first nations around Keeyask and employees that live and work in that area.

Our government is working hard with Manitoba Hydro and all stakeholders to ensure safety is No. 1. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. James, on a final supplementary. Manitoba Hydro Rates Request to Cancel Increase Mr. Adrien Sala (St. James): You know, Madam Speaker, in his comments to media today, the Premier recognized that all Manitobans are taking a financial hit. So I find it quite fascinating that his special way of lightening the load for Manitobans is to give them a 2.9 per cent rate hike just in time for the holidays.

Not only does this rate hike mean higher bills for individuals but it also means higher hydro bills for businesses when the Premier just affirmed this morning that they wouldn't be receiving any new supports either. That's not leadership. That's providing greater hardship for Manitoban families and busi - nesses that have already received no help from this government. Will the minister do the right thing and amend BITSA and strike the rate increase to help Manitobans and small businesses during this difficult time? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Madam Speaker, the NDP created Hydro havoc for ratepayers with $10 billion of wasted investment. They own any rate increases that occur in this province for decades to come. As far as our investments in small business, they lead the country, Madam Speaker. We have 10,000 – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –10,000 small businesses in this province that have received gap funding, which is – exceeds every other province's supports.

We ha ve 10,000 businesses that have used our wage subsidy program: tens of millions of dollars going out every week now, Madam Speaker, to Manitoba small businesses. The member says we're not supporting small business, Madam Speaker. He puts false information on the record because he simply doesn't understand the reality of the situation. We're supporting Manitoba small businesses better than any other provincial government in Canada. Victoria General Hospital PPE for Nursing Staff Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): I table an open letter by a nurse who's been working at the Victoria hospital.

No one told the Vic that a patient who was coming from St. Boniface from a suspected COVID ward. The patient wandered the halls, and when people put on masks, they were mocked. Nurses there don't have adequate PPE. Now, the government knew about problems at the Vic because I wrote a letter to the minister, which I also table, about the father of Dr. Jen Gunter. Mr. Gunter died there after developing sores, not being fed. No one returned Jen Gunter's calls for help and the Vic admitted there were mistakes in his care, then cancelled the meeting with the family.

So before the pandemic, we already had catastrophic failures in basic care and basic com - munication for a patient. In July, the minister knew about it. Why is the Premier blaming Manitobans when he can't even make sure that nurses in hospitals get PPE in a code red? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): The NDP and –the NDP opposition, Madam Speaker, was intelligent enough and thoughtful enough on this rare occasion to stand with the government last week and support a call for the federal government to resume its rightful responsibilities in funding health care in this country.

Every premier of every political stripe agrees, and virtually every opposition party across the country from coast to coast to coast, except the Liberals in this province, who sat quietly on their hands and represented Ottawa to Manitobans yet again. And they continue to do it and they do it again today, while we stand up for Manitobans and for Manitoba health care. The member should do the same. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question.

November 2, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 449 COVID-19 and Education System Spending of Federal Funds Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): Clear that the Premier didn't hear my remarks. I'd be more than happy to share with him my opinion on that resolution last week. Earlier this month, in the middle of a code orange, I got a fundraising letter from my son's school, which I table–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Lamont: –asking me and other parents to sell chocolate bars in order to raise money for distance learning equipment, a handwashing 'stadon' –station and 40 face masks.

Now, apparently this was a miscommunication. We shouldn't be surprised about the confusion, because the Premier and his ministers have never explained how $85.4 million in federal money to make safe schools will be sent. Many other provinces break it down in detail. My question: Would the Premier (Mr. Pallister) like to buy some chocolate bars, or will he actually spend some of the $85.4 million he got from the federal government to make my child and the schools across Manitoba safe? Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Educat ion): Madam Speaker, first of all, I notice that the member opposite was tweeting erroneous information and scaring individuals within a certain school on the weekend. And I think that's unfortunate that this member, of course, puts politics ahead of both the safety but also, I think, the overall mental health of those who are dealing in a very difficult time. More specifically, when it comes to Ottawa, Madam Speaker, he will know that less than 3 per cent of the funding that we ever receive, when it comes to education, would come from the federal government.

This is a government that has stepped up with $100 million of funding. We continue to provide support to the schools as they need them. [interjection] He can yell from his chair all that he wants, Madam Speaker, but it doesn't change the fact that we're here to represent Manitoba. He represents Ottawa to Manitoba. Child Care Availability During Pandemic Constituent Case Concern Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I have a constituent who is a single mother of three. She has a strong work ethic and wants to continue working.

However, because of the shortage in child -care spots due to the pandemic, she is forced to choose between cutting back on her work hours, which would make her ineligible for child-care subsidies, or having to cut her hours completely so she can stay at home with her children, where she would then be ineligible to pay for–or to apply for COVID relief programs. * (14:50) How would the minister recommend she move forward, and what is this government doing to address this for all other Manitobans facing the same situation? Hon.

Heather Stefanson (Minister of Families): I want to thank the member for that very important question, and I think it's important that what we did is we took it very seriously in terms of matching people who needed child-care services with those facilities. There is an online matching system right now, so I would suggest that that individual, you either contact our office; we'd be happy to set her up wi th the appropriate mechanism to do so. We do know that there's about 6,000 vacant positions right now in the province of Manitoba for child care, so we should be able to accommodate those–that individual.

Code of Conduct for Municipal Councils Harassment and Bullying Prevention Mr. Brad Michaleski (Dauphin): Safe and respectful workplaces are important for all Manitobans, and this government has taken many steps to ensure that all employees are protected from all forms of bullying and harassment. The most recent step to ensure that all Manitobans are protected was the passing of The Municipal Amendment Act and the council members code of conduct regulation. Can the Minister of Municipal Relations provide the House an update on the codes of conduct for municipal government? Hon.

Rochelle Squires (Minister of Municipal Relations): I'd like to thank my colleague for that great question.

450 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 2, 2020 We all deserve to work in a workplace that is free of sexual harassment and where individuality and diversity is respected, and municipal councils are no different. The council members code of conduct regulation, which officially came into force yesterday, is yet another tool to ensure that this does occur in municipalities. The framework will help council members u nderstand both the expectations of them and situations or behaviour that can be considered inappropriate or unacceptable.

Together The Municipal Amendment Act and this regulation reflect Manitoba's continued commitment to preventing and addressing issues of sexual harassment and ensuring that we all have safe workplaces in Manitoba. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry. The honourable member for Fort Garry? I would ask the member to unmute his mic. The honourable member for Fort Garry. W e cannot hear the member. Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): All right. Can you hear me now? Madam Speaker: Yes. Financial Assistance During Pandemic Support for Small Business Mr.

Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): From the start of the pandemic many businesses have led the way in measures to reduce the spread of COVID -19, from shutting down before they were mandated to reducing their occupancy in their stores. Sadly, we haven't seen the same leadership from the Pallister government to help make sure businesses survive through COVID-19, and many won't make it through the second round of shutdowns. With new restrictions should come targeted, corresponding financial relief for small businesses.

Will the minister show leadership during this second wave and provide businesses with the financial relief they need immediately? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): After years, Madam Speaker, of NDP looting small businesses, raising their taxes, increasing their fees and charges and blaming them, basically, for being in operation, this government came in and took immediate steps to assist small business, and we continue to do that during this COVID pandemic. We have over $91 million right now out in supports to Manitoba small businesses with our wage subsidy program, Madam Spea ker, for example.

That's assisted people in getting jobs back, helped small businesses with the cash flow crunch during this difficult time. And those applications continue to flow in–1,696 new jobs created in just the last 30 days. On the gap program, w e alone in Manitoba have a $6,000 support program, 95 per cent approval, money out in 48 hours or less, and Manitoba small businesses appreciate that very much. I can tell you, Madam Speaker, just in the last seven days, another 100 Manitoba small businesses benefitted from that. Madam Speaker, $160 million out to Manitoba small businesses–best record in the country.

We continue to support our small businesses. Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired Speaker's Ruling Madam Speaker: I have a ruling for the House. On March 11, 2020, the honourable member for Fort Garry rose in the House alleging a matter of privilege on the grounds that cuts to the public service made by the provincial government led to the removal of public accountability and those actions have impeded the member's ability to hold this government to account and interfered with his parliamentary duties.

The member concluded his comments by moving, and I quote, that this matter be moved to an all-party committee for consideration. End quote. The honourable member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard) also offered advice to the Chair. I then took the matter under advisement in order to consult the procedural authorities. I thank all honourable members for their contri - butions to the matter of privilege. In raising privilege, members must satisfy two conditions in order for the matter to be ruled in order as a prima facie case.

It needs to be demonstrated that the issue was raised at the earliest opportunity, and that sufficient evidence has been provided to demonstrate that the privileges of the House have been breached, in order for the matter to be put to the House. The honourable member for Fort Garry suggested that the criteria for deter mining the earliest opportunity should be interpreted in a, and I quote, holistic or contextual matter, and, I quote, cannot

November 2, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 451 simply mean the next moment in time in which a member has ability to speak. The procedural authorities disagree with the member's contention. Bos c and Gagnon advise on page 145 of the third edition of the House of Commons Procedure and Practice that, and I quote, "the matter of privilege to be raised in the House must have recently occurred and must call for the immediate action of the House." Therefore, the member must satisfy the Speaker that the matter is being brought to the House as soon as practicable after becoming aware of the situation.

I ask members to keep this in mind when assessing the aspect of timeliness in the future as I am not satisfied the condition was met in this case. Regarding the second issue of whether a prima facie case was demonstrated, the member essentially alleged that administrative or policy decisions made by the provincial government in regards to the funding of t he public service were grounds for a matter of privilege.

I would note for the House that Joseph Maingot advises on page 224 of the second edition of Parliamentary Privilege in Canada that allegations of misjudgment or mismanagement or maladministra - tion on the part of a minister in the performance of their ministerial duties does not come within the purview of parliamentary privilege. This finding is supported by one ruling from Speaker Rocan in 1994, three rulings from Speaker Dacquay in 1996 and one by Speaker Hickes in 2006.

The principle is also confirmed by a decision of Speaker Lucien Lamoureux regarding a matter of privilege raised in the Canadian House of Commons on March 9th, 1972. The matter alleged inadequate funding by the government of the office of the federal Auditor General. The allegation stated the lack of funding had an impact on staff and resources for that office, created delays in submitting a report which, in turn, affected the privileges of members by impeding them in the discharge of their duties.

Speaker Lamoureux ruled that there was no prima facie case of privilege, as the complaint about the facilities of the Auditor General's office did not relate to privilege but rather to a matter of administration. Speaker Lamoureux stated in the ruling, and I quote: I remind honourable members that this is not a decision on the substance of the matter but one only on procedure, which is the limit of Speakers' responsibility in such matters. End quote. He also indicated that the matter could be raised under different circumstances on another occasion. The member for Fort Garry (Mr.

Wasyliw) alleged that the cuts to public service impeded his ability to hold the government to account.

However, given that members have been able to ask questions during oral questions, make members' statements and participate in debate and in committee meetings, it is difficult to argue with the suggestion that the member was impeded from–pardon me–it is difficult to agree with the suggestion that the member was impeded from performing his parliamentary duty. * (15:00) In regards to the member's comments that he could not fulfill his role as critic to hold the government to account, Maingot further advises on page 224 of the same edition that, and I quote, parliamentary privilege is concerned with the special rights of members, not in their capacity as ministers or as party leaders, whips or parliamentary secretaries, but strictly in their capacity as members in their parliamentary work.

End quote. Therefore, t he honourable member from Fort Garry cannot claim the protection of parliamentary privilege for the performance of his duties as a critic, but only as an MLA. All of the above references from Joseph Maingot are supported by rulings from myself as well as from Speakers Rocan, Dacquay and Hickes. The member has not demonstrated any obstruction or impediment regarding the function of the House nor the discharge of his duty. I must therefore rule, with the greatest of respect, that the matter raised does no t fulfill the criteria of a prima facie case of privilege.

This does, however –pardon me, I'll start again. This, however, does not prevent the member from raising the issue in other areas such as questions in the House or during discussions held by the Public Accounts Committee for other such decision-making bodies for the Legislative Assembly. Madam Speaker: The honourable Official Opposition House Leader? MATTER OF PRIVILEGE Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): On a matter of privilege. Madam Speaker: On a matter of privilege. Ms.

Fontaine: I rise at the earliest opportunity as I have used the time to consult authorities and it is not permitted to raise matters of privilege during question period, according to our rules, Madam Speaker.

452 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 2, 2020 We know that it is the job of MLAs to be able to comment on legislation before this House. This legislation must be made available to members so that they can do their job, Madam Speaker. The fundamental privilege of a member is speech in this Chamber and if the information necessary to provide the basis of this speech is deliberately withheld from members of this Chamber, this fundamentally undermines the ability of MLAs to do their job.

In plain English, Madam Speaker, this is a cheap and worrisome move that undermines the fundamental democratic rights of members of this Chamber. Beginning at 1:30 p.m., Madam Speaker, the government introduced 23 bills, and as of 30 seconds ago we have only received four of those bills. This removes the ability of members to hold the government to account and to do our job, and it is an insult to the people of Manitoba by a government that is withholding vital information about schools, about justice, about child care and about other matters from the people.

As a result, Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the member from Concordia, that this matter be immediately referred to a committee for consi - deration. Madam Speaker: Before recognizing any other members to speak, I would remind the House that remarks at this time by honourable mem bers are limited to strictly relevant comments about whether the alleged matter of privilege has been raised at the earliest opportunity and whether a prima facie case has been established. Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): I won't delve i nto the argument about whether or not this was raised at the earliest possibility.

I'll let you do your deliberations on whether or not that would be the case, Madam Speaker. On the issue, though, about whether or not this in some way impedes the member's ability to do her job, usually the ministers gave a description regarding the bill. I think that she would know that the rules of her House require that bill distribution happens before second reading, Madam Speaker. I've been in this Chamber for a brief amount of time since being elected in 2003 and there has been other instances, of course, where similar things have happened.

I would remember when Gary Doer –I believe former Premier Gary Doer brought forward legisla - tion on fixed election dates, Madam S peaker. Contained within that bill was, of course, a number of other things, not just set election dates. I believe also the vote tax and other things were contained within the bill, and he delayed distribution of that bill.

In fact, I think I remember now -Member of Parliament Lamoureux, a former MLA in this Chamber, running into the hallway and claiming victory on that legislation simply because the bill was entitled the fixed election day bill, and only later on when the bill was distributed that he see there was a bunch of other things contained within the bill. In fact, there may have been matters of privileges or points of order raised on that very issue by the former Speakers that were then ruled upon.

But the real crux –the genesis of this problem, Madam Speaker–is–and my friend, the Opposition House Leader, will know–is that the opposition has used the relatively new rules that have been crafted in this House to block bills from being introduced before the specified bill deadline day.

Madam Speak er, you will know and you will remember that, when the relatively new rules were crafted in this House, it was always intended to be a balance and to provide a balance for government to bring in legislation because they have the mandate to govern, but also to allow opposition to do their job and to be able to hold bills over until generally the fall of a particular session so that they could make whatever case they wanted to make to the public that those were not bills that were worthy of support, Madam Speaker.

However, this opposition–led by this Opposition House Leader–has, I would say, used those rules in a way that was never intended by those who crafted them, including former members of the NDP, Steve Ashton, Dave Chomiak, including the member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard)–current member for River Heights, who was involved with those rules. And, in fact, they have demonstrated both this spring during a pandemic and in previous springs the desire and the willingness to filibuster the ability for bills to be introduced for days before that specified date.

So what we have done as a government is, rather than waiting until spring to provide our intention of the bills that are here now to be introduced, we're doing it months ahead of time, Madam Speaker. So, far from the member's ability to be impeded, to be able to see legislation or to learn about legislation she's learned about it from members' statements, the –or,

November 2, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 453 sorry, ministers today who've made comments about it, in fact, months earlier than would have been the case previously. And that is a direct result of how they have managed or decided to at least abuse the intention and the spirit of the rules as they were crafted by parties prior to the 2016 election. However, I would offer this in conclusi on to my friend, the member for St. Johns (Ms.

Fontaine), Madam Speaker: If she is looking to have the rules changed in such a way that it could restore the original intention of those rules so that government can bring forward legislation in a timely way because they have the mandate to govern and opposition has the ability to withhold, or to hold pieces of legislation for longer periods of time because they have also been elected to an important role in democracy, and that is to oppose things that they don't think are in the best interests of the public generally, I have already extended the invitation to the member.

I'm more than willing to have a discussion about changing those rules so that it means both the government's and the opposition's mandates–because we both have important mandates. But on the substance of her matter of privilege, Madam Speaker, this is well within the rules that currently exist in the Manitoba Legislature. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Briefly, Madam Speaker, on this matter of privilege. It clearly has been raised at the earliest possible time and it is a significant issue because we need the bills, which have been announced and tabled for first reading, to actually be there.

The government has had months to prepare these bills and get them ready for distribution, so it's just not acceptable. The House leader for the government suggests that, because the honourable Gary Doer did this, you know, bad approach in the past, that he should be allowed to do this bad approac h now. That's not a good reason. And further, in the comments of the House leader for the government, he seems to be suggesting that he may not bring these other bills forward for months. You know, this is not normal democracy. This is not the kind of approach that we should have.

The government should be ashamed of itself. Madam Speaker: A matter of privilege is a serious concern. I'm going to take this matter under advisement to consult the authorities, and will return to the House with a ruling. PETITIONS Dauphin Correctional Centre Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provincial government plans to close the Dauphin Correctional Centre, D-C-C-C, in May 2020.

(2) The D-C-C-C is one of the largest employers in Dauphin, providing the community with good, family-supporting jobs.

(3) Approximately 80 families will be directly affected by the closure, which will also impact the local economy. * (15:10)

(4) As of January 27th, 2020, Manitoba's justice system was already more than 250 inmates over capacity. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Justice to immediately reverse the decision to close the D-C-C-C and proceed with the previous plan to build a new correctional and healing centre with an expanded courthouse in Dauphin. And this has been signed by many, many Manitobans. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Are there any further petitions?

There being no further petitions: grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Could you please resolve into Committee of Supply? Madam Speaker: The House will now resolve into Committee of Supply to consider Estimates from the following departments: Health, Seniors and Active Living in the Chamber, Crown Services in room 255 and Executive Council in room 254.

454 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 2, 2020 COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) EXECUTIVE COUNCIL * (15:30) Mr. Chairperson (Greg Nesbitt): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now consider the Estimates of Executive Council. Does the honourable First Minister have an opening statement? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Yes, Mr. Chair. And first of all, I thank members of the committee and you, Mr. Chair, for allowing us to meet in this format. I know the House leaders worked har d to devise a manner in which we could meet effectively to protect the safety and well -being of all members.

I know it's an innovative approach by the nature of the challenges we're facing together, and so I just want to say thanks to all the members for being– accommodating that. I also wanted to preface my introductory com - ments by saying that I will, as I have in the past, undertake, if I don't have the information members are asking, that I will undertake to get it to them, and I hope they'd agree that in every past year that has been my undertaking and I have provided in every respect any information members have asked of me, of my government, and I'll continue to do so.

I am pleased, on behalf of Executive Council, Mr. Chair, to present the financia l Estimates for the 2020-21 fiscal year, and in doing so I am committing to Manitobans that through our budget we'll continue to deliver on our promises as we have. Of course, this is, to put it very mildly, an unprecedented year in Manitoba history. We wi ll continue to battle COVID -19 and I will certainly be pleased to answer any questions members may have in respect of the measures that we are taking in response to the pandemic and will continue to take.

Protecting the health and safety of Manitobans remains our top priority and we are focused squarely on our response to COVID, and it bears repeating that Manitobans are also still being strongly encouraged– and I thank members of the opposition for repeating these–including the Leader of the Opposition, for repeating these messages about good hygiene, social distancing, cleaning your hands regularly.

And you know that sometimes, as we've said these things so many times, dozens and dozens of times through the –more than–with my Health Minister and myself, more than 110 times I am told, we've gone out to the public, I believe. Frankly, at each of those opportunities we've repeated these messages. I know that other members have done the same, but it bears repeating that we are still very, very much in a battle with COVID.

It's a sneaky, nefarious thing and the way that we can beat it is through good personal hygiene, social distancing, cleaning hands, the issues around staying home, away from others, especially if you're sick, maintaining that distance, that two-metre distance from others when in public – and these are important messages for us all to remember and to repeat, and we are doing –all of us are doing our best to do that. We spent more than half a year now living with this pandemic.

I think in many respects it seems much longer to probably all Manitobans, but it is an ongoing challenge, and so I know with these messages and others are common messages, but they bear repeating. This virus is unrelenting and our response is unrelenting as well. To date, we' ve allocated more than $1.2 billion specifically to COVID -related spending and I'll –given the opportunity, Mr. Chair, I will go through those COVID highlights, but I –if the members are interested in more data on–and detail on these issues, I'm happy to share it.

But I will–I just will say, to keep my comments, I hope, charitably brief, I look forward to any questions members may have. I look forward to answering them directly if I can, or I can't, as I've said, I will undertake to get the information the y're asking for as we move forward together, and I would encourage, in the spirit of teamwork, members to take that approach.

As we are dealing with an unprecedented situation, we are reminded, however, that there are precedents in respect of other chall enging situations that our province and country have faced before, and when those situations have arisen, very, very often it has been a willingness on the part of all political representatives to pull together in a common direction that has assisted us in making better results happen. I would give, as an example of that, the opposi - tion's support–official opposition's support, I should be specific here–in respect of the resolution on health care that was presented.

And not to read it into the record, Mr. Chair, but suffice to say we join together to call on the federal government to resume its rightful

November 2, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 455 responsibilities in sharing the funding obligations on health care, and that is important as those obligations haven't been met in recent years in particular. The need for health -care services continues to grow and was growing significantly because of many factors. Largely, the baby boom, of course, has contributed to this. As our population ages, demand has risen, and this all before COVID. So, right now, Mr.

Chair, we have the highest growth rate in demand for health care ever in Canada's history, and the lowest percentage of federal government support for health care in the history of Canada since the Canada Health Act was passed.

It is disappointing, of course, that we couldn't have had unanimous participatory support from three legislators but, that being said, those who voted did vote unanimously, and I will share with opposition members and my colleagues that other provincial governments are planning to proceed with such a resolution in their jurisdictions as well so that we can add their voices to Manitoba's voice. And Manitoba has been leading this challenge; a challenge that needs to be met. There are great needs in our province –never more than now–for health-care services to be available.

Funding cannot, in perpetuity, be borrowed by provincial governments for this purpose. It is not sustainable. Every single expert agrees with this, and so to have our opposition–New Democratic Party members join with us in support of that resolution, I just wanted to say thank you to them for that. It is a very important message, and it's one that other–I'm speaking again to Premier Horgan later this week, but it's one he has also been taking forward as a New Democratic Premier in British Columbia, and others of other parties, Liberal premiers as well.

In the Yukon, Sandy Silver, who was active with Premier Horgan and I in promoting and advancing the idea of a paid sick leave very early on, we were able, effectively–three different parties but the same priorities–able to achieve some actual outcomes as a consequence of that from the federal government, and we thank them for that too. So there's much more for us to fight for. I'm sure there'll always be reasons for us to find things to fight about, but I would urge members to continue in that spirit of solidarity and co- operation that was so evident last week. And I'll leave my intro comments at that, Mr.

Chair, and thank you for the opportunity. Mr. Chairperso n: We thank the honourable First Minister for those comments. Does the Leader of the Official Opposition have an opening comment? * (15:40) Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, thank you very kindly, Mr. Chair, and also I want to thank the First Minister in advance for his participation in the committee and, of course, to all the staff , both from the Legislative Assembly and our respective political operations who are making this possible.

I just want to begin by acknowledging wha t's happening in the room here, for those who are attending virtually or just viewing this online, because this is a committee hearing like no other, and it is, I think, a testament to how different 2020 is from any other year.

You know, I'm sitting here in the committee room and I'm joined by the Chair and some Legislative Assembly staff, but I can tell you that all the staff in the room are wearing masks, and so I will endeavor to keep my mask on while we’re all in this space here together, just out of respect for their well- being and just to do my part to hopefully, you know, help everyone's health. At the same time, of course, the fact that the Premier (Mr. Pallister) is logging in virtually is also another point, I think, that just shows us how different this year is and many of our colleagues are joining virtually as well.

For the first time in our 150 -year history, we're having a committee structured in this way. And while, maybe, there's an argument to be made about, you know, getting with the time s and allowing for technology to be used in our parlia - mentary work this way, I don't think any of us wanted it to happen like this, with such a social and health cost going on outside the Legislature. So, yes, this is truly a committee unlike any that we've seen before in Manitoba but I expect that the principles of democracy and accountability and working for the benefit of Manitobans will continue.

When it comes to the budget that we're consi - dering here in the Estimates process, you know, this is an important opportunity for us to ask questions of the government, to hold the government accountable and to be able to get more information that can help Manitobans understand what is happening in our province today. And so we take that, as the opposition, very seriously and we look forward to being able to dive into as much Estimates as this week will allow,

456 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 2, 2020 though we don't have a ton of time because there is a deadline looming. I do think it's important to point out, however, that the budget that we are being asked to consider by this government is one that was prepared before the pandemic arrived in Manitoba and so it does not really adequately contemplate the true impacts of COVID-19 and the recession that it caused on our province. We see that both in terms of the projections for revenue, but also in the program of spending.

And I'd say that the most obvious example of that, the most glaring example, is the fact that this budget cuts public health spending, which currently, like, we can all see that that was a mistake and hopefully has been rectified since the documents were prepared. But just as one example of how, you know, the government could've taken the eight months that they've had and gone back to prepare a new budget and to bring forward new documents that would give us a more accurate snapshot of what's happening with the Province's finances, but also with the program of spending.

And, certainly, there is a lot of policy questions that we want to seek some answers to. You know, I have been talking over the past number of days about some calls that we've been making throughout the pandemic but have really, really become all the more urgent with the dramatic increase of case counts over the past number of hours.

And that is specifically that we need to increase intensive-care-unit-bed capacity, system-wide, and see more investments in health care at the bedside, and also that the small businesses in Manitoba do need more supports, there need to be new interventions to help these businesses keep their doors open. And we know that the current programs on offer, whether it's from the Province or from the federal government, are not up to the task.

I was speaking with one business owner yesterday who made the point, and he's repeated this public ly, that I thought was quite effectively, he says: A wage subsidy doesn't help me if I have to close my doors and my employees aren't there. His point of course being that he still faces fixed costs as a business owner and none of the programs announced to date really will help him deal with the scale of the fixed costs that he faces month in and month out. So, that's just a little bit of, I guess, a look ahead at some of the lines of inquiry that we want to explore here in the Estimates process.

I want to acknowledge that the Premier (Mr. Pallister) did bring forward that resolution on the health-care transfer last week and we were pleased to support that. Of course, who wouldn't want more funding for health care in Manitoba, especially during a pandemic.

I know that my colleague who is chairing this meeting, for instance, is –in his own backyard they've seen staffing shortages and issues with diagnostic services in Shoal Lake, and I'm sure each of us in our respective constituencies could catalogue where we would like to see more health -care investments made, and so, of course, who wouldn't want to see that health-care spending happen? However, I would point out that the Premier and his party voted against our amendment that would've actually guaranteed that every single dollar in federal health spending would actually make it to the bedside.

And so we are very concerned that perhaps this is just a PR campaign designed to get more money sent to Manitoba but that it won't actually be used for the express purpose for which it was demanded. And that is a big concern because we know that health care was already behind the eight ball before the pandemic started, and if we look at all the public letters and advocacy that physicians and nurses and health-care folks have made over the past number of days, I think we can all conclude that there is still an even greater urgency behind the need for us to adequately fund health care in Manitoba.

Now, this is a crisis and this is an important time for Manitobans. You know, I'm joining you here today from a room in which there's oil paintings of leaders of the province past, and, certainly, I would be surprised if any of them had to contend with a crisis greater than the one that we're currently confronting. Perhaps they had to confront crises which were the equal of this COVID -19 pandemic, but I don't think that they had to contend with something that is as far reaching or more far reaching and more impactful than the current one.

So I do want to acknowledge that we carry out our work here in as much as there will be, you know, challenging lines of inquiries and, you know, exchanges back and forth, that we do carry out this work against the backdrop in which Manitobans so desperately need our government to be able to function and to be able to function at its top capacity. And so, you know, we're here as the loyal opposition to do our part and to ensure that accountability, information sharing and people's understanding of

November 2, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 457 government does get increased and is not, in fact, locked down due to COVID-19. So with those few comments I'll turn things back over to you, Mr. Chair, and thank you in the process. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the Leader of the Official Opposition for those remarks. Under Manitoba practice, debate on the minister's salary is traditionally the last item considered for a department in the Committee of Supply. Accordingly, we shall defer consideration of line item 2.1(

a) and proceed with consideration of the remaining items referenced in resolution 2.1. Given that the Estimates of Executive Council consist of only one resolution, the discussion will proceed in a global manner. I would ask the honourable First Minister to please raise his hand when he would like to speak so I have the ability, then, to recognize him and know he's ready to speak. The floor is now open for questions. Mr.

Kinew: I wanted to pick up on some of the discussion that the First Minister and I were having during question period and, in particular, one question–or one comment t hat the Premier made, I would like him to clarify on. So I asked about increasing testing capacity and contact tracing capacity in the summertime, and the Premier made the comment that having–that would we have invested in contact tracing capacity and tes ting capacity in the summertime that that would've been idiocy, and the word idiocy is a direct quote from the First Minister. So I wanted the Premier to expand on that and to explain.

Is it actually the case that he believes that preparing in advance for a second wave, that we all knew was coming, was idiocy, that investing in contact tracing and testing capacity in the summertime while we had some breathing room to be able to do so was idiocy, or was this simply him misspeaking and perhaps he would like to correct himself. * (15:50) Mr. Pallister: No, what the member advocated today and earlier against the recommendations of the public health officials was for asymptomatic testing. He came out on record contradicting directly the health experts of our province.

He has done this on other occasions as well, and this is what I referred to as idiocy. Frankly, these people are trained professionals who lead our health-care battle. As far as the member is concerned, based on his advice to Manitobans, they should have, earlier in the year, and they should now, if they have no symptoms, go and get tested. This is what I refer to as idiocy, Mr. Chair, not the issue of preparing; most certainly our health officials have been preparing in earnest for some time. The plans that they're enacting now are as a result, direct result of that preparatory work that they've done.

Just to illustrate, we now have 30 sites in total across the province of Manitoba that have or will be opened in the next while. The capacity to do daily tests has gone up by well more than 1,000 per day, average weekly test results, as a consequence of the incredible, intense efforts of our senior health officials. When the member contradicts the advice of our senior health experts for whatever re ason he may choose to do so, he calls their advice into question, or attempts to. He is not a medical expert, nor am I. And I think that that is the idiocy, Mr.

Chair, that we have to always be careful of here, as our senior health officials are qualified people we are trusting to make recommendations that we are following. And their planning and their intense efforts to plan are what are resulting in the opportunities to meet the demand that we now have. Our wait times have reduced. For Manitobans, that's a wonderful thing. No one wants to wait for an exceptionally long period for anything, of course, but we did lead the country, under the NDP, in wait times, and we are the only province that's made some headway on reducing those in our emergency rooms.

So, now, with respect to COVID testing, we're able to say we're making progress in reducing those waits. That's important. We're also shortening the time periods, thanks to the work of our senior medical people, that are used up between the time that the test comes in and the time the results go out. I'll be talking to the Prime Minister, if not later this afternoon then tomorrow, on a number of fronts, but the federal government is also offering to assist us with additional supports in a few categories, and we appreciate that.

And we appreciate the partnership that they have offered to make with us on some areas of importance, such as data entry and additional measures in respect of the tracking issues that StatsCan personnel can be made available to assist us with. I would just say to the member, his reference to reductions in funding is wrong–it's false –and simply say that we have over $600 million in this year's budget, before COVID, additional committed to health-care investments than the NDP ever m ade.

458 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 2, 2020 In terms of other departments, similar increases: in education, over half a billion additional was the budgeted amount and now we're–we've already added to that for safe schools well over $100 million in addition; and on Families, $200 million in addition more than the NDP ever invested. So, continued reference to false data doesn't give it an element of truth. Continued repeats of false information don't make them correct. The fact of the matter is additional investments have been made, are being made, that– Mr. Chairperson: One minute remaining. Mr.

Pallister: –far exceed any previous government. That's understandable –thank you, Mr. Chair –and that's very understandable, given the realities of COVID. And so we'll continue to focus on additional investments and most certainly expanded capacity, drive-through sites, testing, tracking, all these areas are critically important. And we will continue to focus on making sure we're doing everything we can to assist to make this horrible time, this stressful time for all Manitobans a little less stressful as we stay focused on the real battle at hand, which is with COVID. Mr.

Kinew: You know, I'll let the Premier (Mr. Pallister) continue to repeat our message about the cuts to health care that he's made. But I do just want to return to the question at hand, which was for him to clarify his comments about what exactly, in terms of expanding testing capacity and contact tracing capacity during the summertime, would have qualified, in his words, as idiocy. Again, I would note that he ran away from his statement there in the –his answer. He didn't actually address the substantive issue there.

And, in fact, in a round about way, his answer actually kind of served to underline one of the failures in his thought process. Specifically, the fact that only now, at this point after COVID new case counts are through the roof each and every day, is he announcing increases to testing capacity. And I would point out for the member –for the members of the committee, as wel l as you, the Chair–Mr. Chair, that the contact tracing piece has never been adequately explained by this government. They've never actually put a number on how many contact tracers there are working in the province today.

So, again, expanding contact tracing capacity and testing capacity in November, in late October, that really squandered the advantage that was created by Manitobans making a sacrifice earlier in the year. I think everyone in Manitoba remembers staying indoors for close to two months. The reason why everybody did that was to buy this government time, and so I just want to point out for the committee that the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) actually just said that using that window of opportunity to make the investments in the summertime before th e second wave arrived, that he characterized that as idiocy during question period and now given the opportunity in the Estimates committee, has run away from that topic and has chosen not to actually say that he misspoke or to clarify his comments in any substantive way.

So, again, I would just ask the First Minister, given that he has stated on the record today that he thought that investing in contact tracing capacity and expanding testing capacity this summer was idiocy, can he now just admit that that was a mistake? Can he just say that that was the wrong thing to say and, in fact, he acknowledges that expanding contact tracing capacity and expanding testing capacity during the summer when there was a low case count was actually the right thing to do–w ould have been, actually, the right thing to do? Mr.

Pallister: Well, the member can try polishing his own comments and changing mine all he wants, but his question referred to expanding testing at a time when we had no COVID cases for three weeks. And that's what I'm referring to as idiocy and referring to my comments erroneously and deliberately here weakens his arguments and he does that on a regular basis. He referred to expanding testing at a time we didn't need the testing. We instead invested in expanding testing capacity, which he now refers to as something he said, which he did not. Mr.

Chair, quite frankly, the member is wrong in his assertions and he was wrong when he contravened and contradicted the advice of a leading health -care authorities and told people they should rush out and get tested in the summer, even if they were asymptomatic. This simply would have created longer lines for people who should have got tested, who needed to be tested, who satisfied the criteria that our public healt h officials said they should before they went for testing.

Creating longer lines for testing might be something the member wants to achieve as a political goal, but it's not a goal that any Manitoban would support.

November 2, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 459 What we want to be able to do is make su re that there is testing available and there is for those who have symptoms. So, October 1st, a new mobile site at 1181 Portage Ave . was opened; October 10th, expanded capacity at 2735 Pembina Hwy.; October 13th, a new drive -through site at 1066 Nairn Ave .; October 17th, a new site at the Brandon Keystone Centre; October 31st, a new site at 125 King Edward Ave . in Winnipeg and also additional upcoming test sites will be opened as well.

Thank you to the work of our health-care leaders for the planning and preparatory work they've done to make sure that such sites can now be opened: November 6th at Portage, November 6th also at the University of Manitoba, November 6th as well in Winkler, November 13th at Assiniboia Downs, November 27th in Arborg.

So as of today, as we escalate our pandemic response system level to critical level red, at the same time we know that we have expanded massively the number of available testing sites to reduce the waits for people –which the member would have created longer waits for had he been successful –urging all asymptomatic Manitobans to go and get tested earlier in the year. That would have done nothing.

Those same people who would have followed the member's advice, not health expert advice but his advice, would actually have had to go and get retested as soon as symptoms appeared, and it would have been a fruitless waste of time. That's the bizarre suggestion the member made then, and that's what he's repeating into the record today. * (16:00) He was talking about why we didn't expand testing in the summer. The reason is our testing expansion, our capacity, was our focus, and the expansion of capacity is what we did invest in and what we are now seeing bear fruit for the people of Manitoba.

Again, the member's not a health expert. He continues to try to position himself as one, but we'll continue to follow the advice of our leading health experts like Lanette Siragusa and Dr. Brent Roussin and many, many others who work in our WRHAs around the province and elsewhe re in our Health Department and so on, because it is those people that have assisted us in being able to do things like expand our appointment booking systems. We introduced those to several sites in rural and northern Manitoba.

Since October 20th alone, we've had almost 3,000 appointments made by phone; we've had 1,350 made online in Winnipeg, and most Manitobans were able to get same -day or next -day appointments in less than a minute of calling. These are the kinds of things that are happening, not because of luck, but because of planning–planning by our health experts that's now seeing real results and better services at a time when we need them. Mr.

Kinew: I just want to thank the First Minister for his candor and for confirming at this committee tha t he does believe, in a very mistaken way, I would add, he does believe that expanding testing capacity this past summer would have been idiocy.

So I'll just leave it to him to continue to try and explain to people how that makes sense, you know, to use the sacrifice that all Manitobans made earlier in the pandemic as an opportunity to prepare for the second wave, and not just to shirk the obligation to act, but, in fact, to characterize one of the laudable goals that public health officials the world order–over were recommending that people do, jurisdictions should do, which is to expand testing capacity, but he thinks that that was idiocy. I just want to state for the record to you, Mr.

Chair, and to everybody else watching, that I think that that is actually wrong, and that I believe that government should have moved aggressively to expand testing capacity this summer and, of course, that they should have hired contact tracers so that we could have had latent capacity in the system, and that we could have been better

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-3-12
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 3rd hansardpdf 12.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	dae874313a84433168a9dabc00fdd1553ff41021

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