Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 6A (36th Legislature, 3rd Session)

36-3-6a

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session- Thirty-Sixth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Louise M. Dacquay Speaker Vol. XLVII No. 6A -1:30 p.m., Monday, March 10, 1997 ISSN 0542-5492

Member ASHTON, Steve BARRETT, Becky CERILLI, Marianne CHOMIAK, Dave CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. DACQUAY, Louise, Hon. DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. DEWAR, Gregory DOER, Gary DOWNEY, James, Hon. DRIEDGER, Albert DYCK, Peter ENNS, Harry, Hon. ERNST, Jim EVANS, Clif EVANS, Leonard S. FILMON, Gary, Hon. FINDLAY, Glen, Hon. FRIESEN, Jean GAUDRY, Neil GILLESHAMMER, Harold, Hon. HELWER, Edward HICKES, George JENNISSEN, Gerard KOWALSKI, Gary LAMOUREUX, Kevin LATH LIN, Oscar LAURENDEAU, Marcel MACKINTOSH, Gord MALOWA Y, Jim MARTINDALE, Doug McALPINE, Gerry McCRAE, James, Hon. McGIFFORD, Diane MciNTOSH, Linda, Hon.

MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. NEWMAN, David, Hon. PALLISTER, Brian PENNER, Jack PITURA, Frank, Hon. PRAZNIK, Darren, Hon. RADCLIFFE, Mike, Hon. REID, Daryl REIMER, Jack, Hon. RENDER, Shirley ROBINSON, Eric ROCAN, Denis SALE, Tim SANTOS, Conrad STEFANSON, Eric, Hon. STRUTHERS, Stan SVEINSON, Ben TOEWS, Vic, Hon. TWEED, Mervin VODREY, Rosemary, Hon. WOWCHUK, Rosann MANIT OBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Sixth Legislature Constituency Thompson Wellington Radisson Kildonan Ste.

Rose Seine River Roblin-Russell Selkirk Concordia Arthur-Virden Steinbach Pembina Lakeside Charleswood Interlake Brandon East Tuxedo Springfield Wolseley St. Boniface Minnedosa Gimli Point Douglas Flin Flon The Maples Inkster The Pas St. Norbert St. Johns Elmwood Burrows Sturgeon Creek Brandon West Osborne Assiniboia St. James River East Riel Portage Ia Prairie Emerson Morris Lac du Bonnet River Heights Transcona Niakwa St. Vital Rupertsland Gladstone Crescentwood Broadway Kirkfield Park Dauphin La Verendrye Ross mere Turtle Mountain Fort Garry Swan River Political Affiliation N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D P. P.C.

P.C. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. Lib. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. Lib. Lib. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. PC P.C. P.C. N.D P.

239 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, March 10, 1997 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Clerk (William Remnant): I must inform the House of the unavoidable absence of Madam Speaker, and therefore. in accordance with the statutes, would call upon the Deputy Speaker to take the Chair. (Mr. Marcel Laurendeau, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair) PRAYERS Messages Commonwealth Day Message Mr. Deputy Speaker: Today, the second Monday in March, is Commonwealth Day. Prior to going into Routine Proceedings, I have a message from Her Majesty the Queen, Head of the Commonwealth.

The Commonwealth Day theme this year is "Talking to One Another." It is a fitting choi ce, because 1997 is a year when more people than ever before in the Commonwealth will have the opportunity to communi cate with each other. Modem travel has made it easy to meet and talk face to face. Many from throughout the Commonwealth will take advantage of this in 1997 for sports tours, you th exchanges, science conventions and other gatherings. Here in Britain, for ins tance, the city of Edi nburgh will be the host to the biennial Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting later this year.

At the same time, Commonwealth nongovernmental organizations will be meeting there, so Commonwealth people will be getting together at all levels to exchange ideas. But im proved and easier travel is only one development. Recent advances in communications technology now enable us to talk to each other and to see each other wit hout even needing to leave home. The Commonwealth uses this sort of technology for its di stance education program, especially through the Commonwealth of Learning based in Vancouver.

Through communic ations li ke these, the barriers of di stance can be removed and we can talk together, almost as if the whole Commonwealth was in one room. Many years ago, my grandfather first spoke to the Commonwealth by radio. Today my message is speeding its way around the world by radio and for the first time on the Internet. Of course, having more ways of communicating and faster ways of doing so does not necessarily mean that we understand each other better. Technical advances do not automatically bring im provements.

"Talking to One Another" is a not a one-way process: We can explain our own point s of view, but we should also li sten to the views of others. Commonwealth countries have an advantage in doing this because we have shared views of right and wrong and because we use the common language of English. This makes it all the easier to li sten, to exchange knowledge and to share opinions and feelings with others whose daily lives may be very different from our own. *

(1335) When we talk to one another, we can meet together in one place or we can use technology to hold di scussions across the world. Whi chever way we choose to communic ate, the important point is that we keep talking and keep li stening. By doing so, we ensure that the Commonwealth continues to grow as an informed and open-minded community of nations. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PRESENTING PETITIONS Mobile Screening Unit fo r Mammo grams Ms. Rosano Wowchuk (Swan River): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I beg to present the petition of M. Joshi, D.

Joshi, Anne Nemez requesting that the Legislative Assembly of Manit oba request the Minis ter of Health (Mr. Praznik) to consider immediately establis hing a mobile screening unit for mammograms to help women across the province detect breast cancer at the earliest possible opportunity.

240 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March I 0, 1997 READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS Mobile Screening Unit fo r Mammograms Mr. Deputy Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk). It complies with the rules and practices of the House (by leave). Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? An Honourable Member: Yes. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Yes. The Clerk will read. Mr. Clerk (William Remnant): The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba. humbly sheweth that:

WHEREAS medical authorities have stated that breast cancer in Manitoba has reached almost epidemic proportions; and

WHEREAS yearly mammograms are recommended for women over 50, and perhaps you nger if a woman feels she is at risk; and

WHEREAS whil e improved surgical procedures and better post-operative care do improve a woman's chances if she is dia gnosed. early detection plays a vital role; and

WHEREAS Manit oba currently has only three centres where mammograms can be performed. those being Winnipeg, Brandon and Thompson: and

WHEREAS a trip to and from these centres for a mammogram can cost a woman upwards of$500 which is a prohibit ive cost for some women; and

WHEREAS a number of other provinces have dealt with this problem by establishing mobile screening units; and

WHEREAS the provincial government has promised to take action on this serious issue. WHEREFORE YOUR PETITIONERS HUMBLY PRAY that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Minis ter of Health (Mr. Praznik) to consider im mediately establishin g a mobile screening unit for mammograms to help women across the province detect breast cancer at the earliest possible opportunity. Introduction of Guests Mr. Depot)· Speaker: Before proceeding to Oral Question Period. may I draw the attention of the House to the galleries where we have seated with us today. 53 students from the H.S. Paul School.

Grade 5, under the direction of Mrs. Brenda Mitchell. who are from Madam Speaker's (Mrs. Dacquay) riding. We also have with us from the Faith Academy, twenty Grade 9 students under the di rection of Mrs. Jodi Daly. from the consti tuency of the honourable member for Kil donan (Mr. Chomiak). INTRODlJCTION OF BILLS Bill 200-The Legislative Assembly Amendment Act Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Mr. Deputy Speaker. I move. seconded by the member for Concordia (Mr. Doer). that leave be given to in troduce Bill 200. The Legi�lative Assembly Amendment Act (Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur I'Assemblee legislative). and that the same nO\\ be recei\ ed and read a first time. Motion pres ented . * ( 1340) :VIr. Ashton : The intent of this bill was very simple and that is to alkm members of the Legislature to elect the Speaker of this Legislative Assembly. Mr. Deputy Speaker. I \\ant to point out this is not the first time we have brought in this bill. We have brought it in before. I would point out that the House of Commons in Ottawa and the majority of Canadian provinces now have elected Speakers. as does the House of Commons in Great Britain. Mr.

Deputy Speaker. we all need. not only in this Legi slature but in this province. a Speaker that commands the respect and support of all members of

March 10 , 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 241 the Legisla ture. The way to ensure that that happens and that Speakers are not appointed strictly by Premiers and by sitting governments is to make sure that all members of the Legis lature have the opportunity to elect the Speaker. Mr. Deputy Speaker, if ever there was a bill whose time has come, it is now, and I would urge all members of the Legis lature to support it. Mr. Deputy Speaker: I inadvertently skipped over a couple of areas . I am going to have to just backtrac k a little bit.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees; Minis terial Statements and Tabling of Reports; Notices of Motion; Oral Question Period-oh, one second. Is it the will of the House to adopt the motion of the honou rable member for Thompson? [agreed] ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Education System Funding Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker or Mr. Speaker, Deputy Speaker. It is contagi ous, Mr. Deputy Speaker. My question is a very serious one.

Across the province we have been listening to students and teachers and parents advisory councils on the state of the finances and the cutbacks that have been init iated due to the Filmon government reduction in support for public education.

Today again in this Legisla tive Building parents advisory councils from across the province came here and talked about the lack of commitment by the provincial government to public education, in fact stated that the government of the day is starving the public education system, and this is having a very detrimental impact on the future for our kids and on the future of their education. I would like to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon), will he initia te increases in fu nding to public education, and will he lis ten to the parents advisory councils that have come forward to this Legis lature today?

Will he stop starving our children in terms of education funding and start investing in our future for decent funding in public education? Hon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): I will check; my understand ing was that we only had about 12 people here, but I will accept the opposition Leader's statement that it was parent councils of Manitoba. I was advised that about a dozen people had come. However, in regard to the concerns raised-two concerns I understand were raised. I was presented with a copy of the-watched as it came in.

First of all, regard ing their first concern that the quality of education, that parent councils are being limi ted to talking about cuts, I would read what our role for parents adviso ry coun cils is, and no parent council should feel as stated in this release that they are lim ited to talking about cuts.

Their role, according to the act, has many facets: to advise the principal about school policies, activities and organiza tions, including departmental and locally developed curricula, cult ural and extracurricula r activities, student discipl ine, behaviour management policies , community access to school facilities; advising the principal about fundraising, about the hiring process in hiring and assigning principals, to advise the school board of that; to advise the principal and the school board about annual budgets for the school; to partic ipate in developing annual school plans involving the activities in the school and the learning that takes place in the school; to partici pate in any review of the school that the mini ster or school board has directed to be carri ed out and so on, so they are not confined at all.

Their role is very extensive. I should indica te in terms of funding that when we came into office the funding was $63 1 mil lion. It is now $746 milli on, an increase of $1 15 million. * (1 345) Mr. Doer: Mr. Deputy Speaker, the min ister's own advisory council on education and funding, a report that the min ister and government received in November of 19 96, stated that additional funding and support for public education should come from the general

242 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 10 , 19 97 revenues of the Province of Manitoba. The funding should not have to come again from the property taxpayers of Manitoba. I would like to ask the Premier (Mr. Film on), why did the government ignore the advice of their own advisory committee? Why did they continue to either cut public education funding or freeze public education funding as they have done over the last five years?

Why do they keep reducing the support for public education and continue to put that pressure on the local property taxpayer, contrary to the recommendation from their own advisory committee? Mrs. Mcint osh: As I have indica ted earlier, funding incr eases to public education since we took office are $1 15 million over the stretch of time from the time that we assumed office until today. I do acknowledge, as all members do, that when we began to have federal transf er cuts and a number of other things impact, we did have a few years of 2 percent cuts and a freeze. Even with that, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, our total incr ease has been that $1 15 million. By anybody's calculation, that is an increase over what the NDP used to fund public educat ion in Manitoba, and a fairly substantial one, I might add. In terms of the advice we have been given from the minister's Advisory Committee on Education Finance, I should point out a number of thin gs that we have done, variations in the formula to address many concerns that have been identified.

We have put in additional suppor t for small elemen tary schools in sparsely populated areas; we have adjusted the funding formula so that the funding is not reduced due to reductions in operations and maintenance expenditures. Those could be redirected into the classroom where they should be. We have done a $2,000 per wheelchair pupil provision for students and vehicles, and a number of other initiatives. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I know you are asking me to sit because of time. Mr. Doer: Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the minis ter did not answer the question of why she did not follow the recommendations from her own advisory council on public education funding where they called on the funding to come from the general revenues, not from the local property taxpayers, something that is obviously going to be the opposite of what is happening.

I would like to ask the Premier himself , in lig ht of the fact you have cut minus two, minus two, a freeze, minus two and zero over the last five years, at a time when revenues have grown, including the federal cuts by some 12 percent, including the money coming in from lottery revenues and other means, how can our kids compete in a changing world when courses are being cut, programs are being reduced, teacher-class ratios are changing, textbooks are becoming out of date? How can we compete in a changing world when we do not invest in our future by investing in our children in a public education system? Hon.

Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Depulty Speaker, as the mini ster has indica ted, this government has incr eased its spending in the time that it has been in office to education by $1 15 million a year,. unlike the New Democrats, who, when they were in office-here is an example of their way of doing business. It is an

article from the February 20, 19 88, edition of the Winnipeg Free Press. and it says, quote, Education and some other social services are getting a dwindling share of provincial resources under the Howard Pawley regime. It talks about how the greatest areas of increase in spending under that Pawley-Doer administ ration that was in of fice for almost seven years, the greatest incr eas�s went to departments such as the cabinet and its admini strat ion, I 08 percent increase over that period of time; Government Services, 11 9 percoent; Co-op Development. 219 percent; Agriculture, 101 percent.

But all of the social areas, in fact, were dwindling. They were down from 62 percent of the budget for the three major areas: health, education and social services. They were down from 62 percent to 60 percent. They have gone up to over 64 percent of the budget since we have been in office. It talks about the fact that the interest on the debt was increasing so dramatically that it was heading to be the second-la rgest department of governm,ent-second large st, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, because of their priorities of spending on administration, on cabinet expenses and all those other things but not spending on e:ducation.

March 10 , 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 243 We have changed that. In terest on the debt is now the fourth department. It is slipping down in priority as it is slipping down in relat ion to all our other expenses, because we are able to live within our means for the first time in decades, Mr. Deputy Speaker. * (1 350) Education System Parental Involvement Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the last year that the NDP government was in office, there was a 4.5 percent increase to public schools, and I and every other parent across Manitoba would put that against the minus two, minus two and minus two of this government. Last spring at the Yellowquill School in Portage, the government held one of its forums for paren ts. The Premier spoke; the Minis ter of Education spoke. In fact, every Tory minis ter with any connection to public education spoke, all of them glibly about the role of parents in education.

I would like the Minis ter of Education to confirm that what was in fact offered to parents and what is still offered to parents is not power, not the long list of activities that she wanted to enter into the record here, but in fact what has been offered is a poison chalice, the ability for those parents to cut and cut and cut to the bone their own children's education -because that is what they are telling the minis ter. Hon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Educ ation and Training): I find it interesting in her

preamble the member would indicate that the funding to education in the Pawley administration in their last year was only 4.5 percent . The following year when we came into office and for a few years after, the funding was consi derably higher than that increase. School divisions were finding that they were raising their local levies very substantially year after year. I know, I was on a school board at that time, and school divisions were coping with what the member says they are still coping with, local levy.

School divisions all around the province will indicate they value very much the ability to have taxing authority, because it does enable control for them. I think her comments are not quite on the target in that regard . In regard to what parents are now obliged and able to do, I should indicate that we have about 15 0 school advisory councils now established, and the feedback I receive from them is far, far different from the feedback she has received from the people she says she has talked to.

I receive a lot of feedback from parent advisory councils, both indirectly from department personnel and directly from parent councils themselves. That is not the messa ge I am getting. Ms. Friesen: Could the Minis ter of Education explain the duplicity of her government which claimed in 19 94 when Clayton Manness was minister that we, quote, want advisory councils to have tremendous influence, but yet we have a Minister of Education who refused month after month to meet with the parent councils of Seven Oaks and who ignores the growing and extensive opposition to the cuts in public education across Manitoba?

Mrs. Mcint osh: Again, not accepting any of the

preamble-and I must indica te that I find the

preamble in so many instances to be very, very off the mark and outrightly inaccurate in many instances. I meet regularly with parent councils, and they do not have to wait months and months to see me. The input and the advice that they are giving us is invaluable, the input they are making into their schools, the development of school plans. One only has to go to divisions, go to the former min ister's division, Morris-MacDo nald, talk about what the parent advisory councils are doin g, the school advisory councils. It is astonishing.

Some of the initiatives in community technologies for the whole community, not just the school, that are going on are outstanding, directly the result of parents who have taken a positive approach to work with the schools in developing those plans.

I can also indicate that on the mini ster's advisory committee on the implementation of educational change, the input from school advisory councils, parents on that very important committee have played a leading role in advising us on how they want educational change regarding examinations, curricula, roles of teachers, roles of principals, have been incredibly helpful. We thank them tremendously, and I do not see them not being involved, as the member implies. ·

244 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 10 , 19 97 * (1 355) Ms. Friesen: Would the minis ter, whose own publ ication, Parents and Schools: Partners in Education, argues that parental involvement is one of the most challenging practices, that educators need to build trust among parents- Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Could I ask the honou rable member to put her question. On her third question, I do not believe there is a need to put a

preamble. The honourable member for Wolseley, to continue. Ms. Friesen: I would like to ask the mini ster how it is she intends to rebuild that trust with parents, the parents who are here today, for example, the parents in Seven Oaks, the parents who are telling us over and over again that confidence must be rebuilt in the public education system of Manitoba. Mrs. Mcintosh: Mr. Deputy Speaker, the member will have the parents that she has communicated with whom she quotes in the House, and I will get the overview.

I have to indi cate that what parents told us in the parent forums-we were the first government in Manitoba to hold parent forums. My predecessor held parent forums with sets of 500 parents-first come, first served; they were not preselect ed-who gave him indication they wanted several things: higher standar ds, measurable outcomes, examinations and assessment, improved quality of teacher trai ning at the university in a number of things, better discipline in the school s. Those foundat ions formed the blueprint which we are now implementing. Those requests came initially from parents.

They wanted higher parental involvement in schools. We have set up guidelines for parental invo lvement through parent advisory counc ils. We have had 15 0 of them established. To my knowledge, from all I have heard from them from meeting with them, from talking with them, from visiting their schools, they are doing just what parents asked. It is too bad- Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Mrs. Mcintosh: -t hey did not do that when they were in power. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please.

Could I remind hono urable members that under Beauchesne's 417 , answers to questions should be as brief as possible and deal with the matters raised and should not provoke debate. It would help in keeping the decorum at this time. Education System School Bus Capital Program Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Mr. Deputy Speaker, my question is fo r the Minister of Education on the subject of the new capital school bus program .

I would like to remind the mini ster of May 16 , 19 96, not very long ago, when the minis ter told this House, "we have no intention of extending further beyond the 15 years the length of time that school divisi ons are allowed to own buses, because we feel that is probably the maximum length of time that a school division should be having a bus on the road ." Will the minister admit now that the govt!rnment has actually removed the 15 -and-a-half -year limit for the use of school buses by the public school system, and, in effect, there is no limit by the province, not like her own minis terial car? * (1 400) Hon.

Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): I find it ironic that one member of the opposition would on the one hand ask us to start lis tening to taxpayers, parents and school officials and on the other hand say that when we act upon what we have heard that we should not do it. It is the damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario that is easy to bring up in the House. I should indicate, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that what we have done is to act upon advice from the field, including parents to whom we do listen. We stopped purchasing buses for school divisions.

In stead, what we have done is we have given school divisions the money that is required to purchase a bus should they so desire, based upon this premise that �eople were coming to us and saying: Sometimes buse:s at the age of eight are completely worn out depending upon the use they have had; others at the age of 17 , itfthey have been well maintained and are not used a Jot, are still

March I 0, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 245 roadworthy. Some of us do not wish to purchase buses, some of us wish to contract out. In stead of purchasing buses for school divisions, why do you not do the common-sense thing, just provide the money and let us determ ine how our tra nspor tation will take place. Of course, Mr. Deputy Speaker, they are subject to inspection and all of those items. They must be roadworthy and licensed, et cetera, but we are listening to the requests from parents and school officials that these decisions be left to school divisions with the money provided.

We will continue listening to people and making adjustments to our decisions if we believe they have made a good case. Ms. Mihychuk: Mr. Deputy Speaker, can the minister explain to this House how many buses the Winnipeg School Division will replace at a $99,000 grant, given that 38 of their 60 buses need to be replaced? How old will those buses be by the time they get replaced? Mrs. Mcintosh: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I cannot speak for individual divisions' decision making. I know that a number of divisions have opted for contra cting out in terms of how they tra nsport students instead of owning their own buses.

Of course, that is their own decision. I have to indicate that we have provided an additional funding of $0.4 million to the Winnipeg divisions fo r the purchase of buses should they desire to do that. We also are saying that we will be providing $19 5 per pupil for Grade 7 to Senior 4 in cities, towns and vil lages who live more than a mile or 1. 6 kilomet res from their school or the tra nsit bus stops. We are making accommodations to make tran sporta tion easier in the city and to lessen that burden on local school divisions. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for St.

James, with her final supplemen tary question. Ms. Mihychuk: My final question to the Minis ter of Education: Is the min ister finally prepared to admit that for those divisions that require replacement of significant buses -and we do have an aging fleet-over the next few years, that the only viable option for those divisions is to look at leasing for virtually double the cost at $1 20,000 per unit rather than the $60,000 to buy it outright, so the taxpayers of Manitoba will be responsible for picking up buses for twice the price? Mrs. Mcintosh: Mr. Deputy Speaker, no, I will not accept the

preamble. Again, the

preamble is worded for whatever message is intended to be gained from that wording. I have to indicate that we have done a number of things in addition to allowing the local divisions to make the decisions, which were the requests that were made of us. The response we gave to points raised to us, in listening and responding positively to suggestions we were given from the field, we have also done a number of other things to help offset costs.

I started to mention earlier that we will now give $2,000 per wheelchair pupil for pupils who are provided vehicles other than school buses, provided, of course, they are appropriately licensed. We have done a number of things like that. Point of Order Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): On a point of order, earlier, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, you cited Beauchesne 417 which states that "Answers to questions should be as brief as possible, deal with the matter raised and should not provoke debate." We have now list ened through nine rat her painf ul so-called responses from the min ister, many of which bear no resembla nce to the question asked. The minis ter was just asked a very serious question about school buses, in particular whether school districts will have to lease rather than purchase because of the pressures they are under. I would like to ask, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, if you would ask the Minis ter of Education to finally at least respond to one of the questions we are asking. Mr. Deputy Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Thompson, he is quite right. Citation 417 does state that answers to questions should be as brief as possible and deal with the matters raised, but in listening to the mini ster's answer I was not sure if she was coming to that point or if it was coming further on, so I cannot rule it a point of order at this time. Personal Care Homes Saf ety Standards Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, my question is to the Mini ster of Health. We have now

246 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March I 0, 19 97 had the announcement of an inquest into the death of Mr. Molna r at Hol iday Haven, but there is still a huge gap, a huge hole in the Holiday Haven and the nursing home story. I am asking the Min ister of Health what steps the Minis ter of Health is going to take to answer the questions about previous difficulties at Hol iday Haven, previous difficulties at other nursing homes and the huge lack in confidence that Manitobans have in the ability of this government to manage nursing homes as a result of the Hol iday Haven affair. Hon.

Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Mr. Deputy Speaker, as we have discussed in this House before, we certainly wanted to see what decision the Chief Medical Officer would make with respect to an inquest. We understand that he has now ordered an inquest with, I think, a fairly broad mandate with respect to these circumstance s. As I have indica ted to the member before, we will wait to see the outcome and the recommendations that come from the coroner's inquest or the inquest of the Chief Medical Officer. Holiday Haven Nursing Home Inquest-Mandate Mr.

Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Can the Mini ster of Health and the Premier (Mr. Filmon), who seem to know something about this, inf orm the House whether or not issues such as the Morrissette case where they have been forced to go to the Human Rights Commission or the 19 cases that I wrote to the minis ter last fall, 19 cases of abuse at Hol iday Haven, will be dealt with by this

part icular inquest? Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Every time I seem-or on many occasions in which we get questions from members opposite, I think it is very important to remember that it is important to have our facts correct. The member talks about 19 cases of abuse as if every one has been proved. Many times there are inquiries made or allegations made that the facts do not bear it. It happens from time to time. We heard the member for Concordia (Mr. Doer) make reference to three deaths of the same nature which were not the case.

My understa nding from discussions my office has had with the Chief Medical Officer is within the mandate that he will be addressing his concerns regarding safety of elderly persons in pe:rsonal care homes in our province, and that is part of the discussions or the inquir y that he will be having. Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Deputy Speaker, my final supplemen tary to the min ister. I spoke on the weekend with the daughter of Mrs. Sands, the other sub ject of an inquest at a personal care home four years ago that still is unr esolved.

What assurances will the mini ster give this House and the people of Manitoba, since this inquest is going to be into other nursing homes, that all of the cases, that all of the sit uations will be adequately investigated and followed up so that we are not in this House a couple of years la ter like we have been again talking about the fail ure of this government to follow up recommenda tions? Mr.

Praznik: I too have had occas ion to speak to some of the relatives of that particu lar case that he referenced, and from the in formation that was provided to me-l have not spoken with the daughter but another family member-t hey are not quite as the member would lay out before us in the House. As I have indica ted, the Chief Medical Officer will be holding an inquir y. Part of that mandate is to address concerns regard ing safety of elderly persons in our personal care homes. and as minis ter I certainly want to have that kind of inf ormation.

It is my responsibil ity as the minis ter who licenses personal care homes. both private artd public in this province, to ensure that to the greatest degree possible we are protecting the safety and security of residents of those facili ties. Labou r-Market Training Federal- Provincial Agreement Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for St. Bonif ace. Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Bonif ace): Merc i, Monsieur le vice-president, et bienvenue. [Translation) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and welcome.

March 10, 1997 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 247 [English] My question is for the Minis ter of Education and Training. Your department is currently in negotiation with the federal government to assume more authority in the area of training. I am upset with the members of my constituency that are being frightened by reports that have been cir culated in St. Bonif ace because of closed-door agreements, which I do not believe.

Will the minister update this House on the current negotiations between the province and the federal government regard ing a transf er of labour market services and dispel the rumour of closed-door negotia tions? Hon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Educ ation and Training): Mr. Deputy Speaker, yes, the member is correct in that Canada and Manitoba are negotiating a labour market training agreement. We are in the final stages of that negotiating.

The member makes reference to concerned employees, and I indicate that we, in negotiating, have every intention of ensuring that those who currently do work in providing training opport unities and labour market trai ning for the people of Manitoba are all fairly and well treated as we conclude our negotia tions. *

(1410) Mr. Gaudry: Mr. Deputy Speaker, has the minis ter consid ered entering into a co-management agreement with the federal government simi lar to the one already existing between the federal government and the Province of Newfoundland? Mrs. Mcintosh: We have looked at all models that exist. We will be ending ultimately, I am sure, with an agreement that is made for Manitoba that may or may not reflect what is happening in other provinces but that will be well suited to the people who live and work here. Our goal is to achieve that in a co-operative venture with the federal government.

We have had many discussions on that very topic and, rumours notwithstanding, I can assure you that both the federal minis ter and the provincial minis ter and those two respective governments want the very best solution for all involved. Mr. Gaudry: Can the minis ter guaran tee that Manitoba ns will continue to receive the same in bilingual services and suppor t as provided under the federal government? Mrs.

Mcintosh: Our goal here is to provide the same or enhanced services in all areas in the most cost ef fective way to avoid the overlap and duplication that currently exists and to ensure that we end up with a system as good if not better than what we had with costs that are contained and will not continue to grow because of duplication and overlap. Our concern would be that as we have this devolution of power the funding that is required to sustain our system accompan ies the agreement, and of thatwe have confidence of a succes sful conclusion. Deputy Minister of Energy and Mines Expenditures Hon.

David Newman (Minister of Energy and Mines): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I had a response to a question asked last Friday, March 7, from the honourable member for In kster (Mr. Lamoureux), and I would like to put that on the record. Of the total amount of $74,734.77 included in the 1995-96 Public Accounts, there were two categories of expenses. The first one concerning relocation, $69,985.31 relates to relocation expenditu res incurred in the recruitment of the deputy mini ster, in relocating the deputy and his family from Ottawa to Winnipeg.

The expenditures are consistent with the general manual of admini stration policies and Treasury Board guidelines, I am advised by the Cle rk of the Executive Council. In their review of these expenditures, st aff have confirmed that they relate specifically to the moving of household goods to Winnip eg, fees, commissions and disbursements related to the sale of the property in Ottawa and miscell aneous disbu rsements incu rred during the relocation of the deputy minis ter and his family.

Out of the total relocation expenditures, only $4,008.67 passed through the hands of the deputy mini ster in reimbursing him for relocation expenses; $65,850.33 was paid direct to Royal LePage and $126.31 was paid direct to American Express. The second category was business -travel marketing; $4,749.46 relates to travel and associa ted costs for the

248 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 10, 1997 deputy min ister in the course of performing his regular duties. Of this total, only $2,685.89 passed through the hands of the deputy minis ter in reimbursing him for his travel and related expenses. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Mr. Newman: Oh, I am sorry. An Honourable Member: .. . been standing for five minutes. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Just to inform the minis ter, we have been dealing with the rules which have been set forth by the House prior to my coming to the Chair, but we have been leading to the establi shment of one min ute clear guidelines for the answers to questions and sometimes a little bit longer, but that was dragging on to two minutes. Youth Gangs Reduction Strategy Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Mr. Deputy Speaker, my question is to the Minis ter of Justice.

Last week when I asked why, despite the threat of gangs on everyone's mind, there was not one single word in the throne speech on the issue, the minis ter launched into a fit against Lloyd Axworthy. Rather than turf wars, gang or political, can the minis ter possibly explain what I think Manitobans would be dismayed to learn, that the government has quietly buried a report by its own Youth Secretariat which made 34 recommendations for comprehensive action on gangs, a call to action done when? Ten months ago. What are they waiting for? Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I would certainly be more than happy to have one of my staff members sit down and speak with the member opposite to indicate exactly what we have been doing over the last number of months. I want to indica te that, and I do not have the report here, but Mr. Justice Hughes's report indicates specifically -! think it is at page 56, it is in around page 56: difficult work, but the progress that has been made by many people in respect of this initia tiv,e.

I would refer the member back to those comments in order to give him some assurance that it is not simply the government standing up and saying that we have been doing a good job and a lot of work in that area, but an independent person as well. Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Deputy Speaker, the government was called on for a comprehensive response to gangs. but the government ve1ry- Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. This is not a time for debate. I would ask the member to put his question now. please. Mr. Mackintosh: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Did the government bury the Youth Secretariat's report because it was embarras sed by its comments on how Manitoba leads the nation in violent youth crime or how the problems of gangs is being ignored or describin g, and I quote, inaction, noncommunication and potentially dangerous situations in progra ms? Mr. Toews: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I categorically reject the accusat ions made by my collea gue across the way.

I want to state that in fact we have been working very aggressively in that respect, and given the limit ations of time, might I indi cate a couple of areas where I think we lead the nation in terms of assuring the public that we in fact are concerned about the youth gang issue. First of all, in Manitoba we, in spite of having one thirtieth of the population, have about 50 percent of all the tran sfer appl ications. We take a very, very serious look at violent crime. and if there are no appropriate facilities in the youth system, we activdy move on transfers in that respect.

I might indica te for my colle ague's benefit that the Court of Appeal has examined that issue in three areas , three separate decisions, and have in fact supported the government's position on those transfer applications. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable m�mber for St. Johns, with his final supplemen tary question. Mr. Mackintosh: Will the government own up to the reports-

March I 0, 1997 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 249 Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Could the honou rable member place the question. It is not necessa ry to put a

preamble. Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Deputy Speaker, my question is as it was, would the government own up to the criticisms in the government's own report which said such things as reductions in social allowances and Child and Family Services are factors leading to the gang activity in Manitoba, allegations that probation is a joke, that the court system is taking too long, and will the government just get down to business to deal with gangs in this province? Mr. Toews: I think my coll eague has pointed out a very important issue, that as Mr.

Justice Hughes has pointed out, the real solu tion extends beyond penal sanctions and criminal proceedings, but the real solution deals with social agencies and some of these social issues as opposed to the criminal issue. I want to say, in respect of my concern with the federal government's approach, that at the same time they put $200,000 for a gang co-ordinator here, they take $200 million out of this province, $20 million on an annual basis that went directly to pay for services for our First Nations people off reserve.

We feel that this is a tremendous shortcoming and a failure of the federal government, and I hope that my col league across the way will work together with me on that issue to convince the federal government of the error of their ways. Manitoba Telecom Services Inc. Board of Directors Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): My question is to the Premier. The board appointments for Manitoba Telecom systems were recently announced, and members of the multicultur al community are very concerned about the composition of the board.

Despite the throne speech rhetoric of the government's spirit of partnership, there was not one aboriginal person or any visible ethnics represented in these board appointments. How can the Premier justify the throne speech rhetoric when not one of his own appointments to the MTS board are from the groups he says he wants to develop a spirit of partnership with? Hon. Gary Film on (Premier): As the member knows, the Manitoba Telecom Services will be in, or is already in, the private domain as a privately held corporation.

As such, it was very important to have names since the shares are publicly traded, names that were well known both nationally and certainly within the corporate community, because we expected to get the maximum value for the corporation and in fact received over $900 million. It was very important to have people with business capability and a very strong business background in order to attract that kind of investment. In the long term, all the people of Manitoba, including our aboriginal brothers and sisters, and others, will benefit by having that $910 million come back to Manitoba to be invested in Manitoba. *

(1420) Mr. Hickes: My question is to the Minister responsible for Multiculturalism. The Minister responsible for Multi culturalism must have been appalled by the lack of ethnic representation on the MTS board. Will she meet with the Premier to develop a strategy to ensure that this situation does not happen in the future and that all Manitobans are represented when the government is making patronage appointments? Hon.

Rosemary Vodrey (Minister responsible fo r Multiculturalism): This government does have a very good record of involving the multicult ural commun ity and becoming continually involved with the community. It is a record, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that I believe is a good one, and I am sure this government will continue its commitment in the way that it has already acted. Boards and Commissions Ethnic Representation Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, with his final supplem entary question. Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Since the Premier clearly did not consider aboriginal or visible ethnics in this series of

250 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March I 0, 19 97 political appointments, will he now commit to legislation which would ensure a true representation of the population of Manitobans on boards and commissions? I would like to table the boards for the Manitoba Liqu or Control Commission, the Manitoba Hydro board and the Manitoba Telecom Services which truly show the lack of appointments by this government for aboriginals and visible ethnic people. Bon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Deputy Speaker, the member selects only those boards which he thinks make his argument.

If we look at the hundreds of boards and commissions that are appointed by this government, we will find that this government's record is better than was ever achieved by the New Democrats with respect to appointment of women, with respect to appointment of visible minorities and with respect to the broadest range possible of people from all elements of the Manitoba community. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Time for Oral Question Period has expired. NONPOLITICAL STATEMENT St. Bonif ace Diocese Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Bonif ace): May I have leave for a nonpolitical statement? Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Is there leave for the honou rable member for St. Boniface to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed] Point of Order Mr. Gaudry: On a point of order, if the Premier wants a briefing on the convention of the weekend, I will do that later on for him. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member did not have a point of order. * * * Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member now has leave to put his nonpolitical statement. Mr. Gaudry: Monsieur le vice-president, il me fait grand plaisir cet apn!s-midi de saluer le Diocese de Saint-Boniface.

Le 8 decembre demier marquait l'ouverture officielle d'une annee de celebrations entourant le cent cinqu antieme anniver saire de Ia fondation du Diocese catholique de Saint-Bonif ace. Plusi eurs millie rs de Manitobains et Manitobaines auront, au cours de l'annee, !'occasion de se join dre a ces fetes eta mieux connaltre sa belle et grande histoire. Le 16 juillet 1818, trois missio nnaires catholiques debarquaient devant le Fort Douglas, ici, a Ia Riviere Rouge. lis representaient Ia premiere presence permanente chn!tienne dans L'Ouest.

Grace a Ia vision et Ia gener osite de Lord Selkir k, ils jt!terent les fondations d'une grande oeuvre qui a marque non seulement notre province mais le Canada entier. Vingt-neuf ans apres l'arrivee des premiers missior inaires- Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Could I ask the members wanting to carry on a conversa tion to do so either in the Loge or out in the halls. The honourable member for St . Bonifa ce is attempting to put forward his statement at this time. The honou rable member for St.Bo niface to continue. Mr. Gaudry: Merci.

Vingt-neuf ans apr•�s l'arrivee des premiers missionnaires. le Saint-Bonif ace est erige en diocese le 4 juin 184 7. Ce diocese s'etend des Grands Lacs aux Rocheuses et de Ia frontiere americaine au pole Nord. C'est un vasle pays de mission qui ne compte que deux paro isses. Saint Boniface et Sain t-Fran�o is-Xavier.

Au cours des !5 0 demieres annees, le Diocese de Saint-B oniface a joue un role signifi caltif dans le developpement de Ia na tion metisse, !'education, les soins de sante, !'entree du Manitoba dans Ia Conf ederation canadienne, les negociations de traites avec les Premieres Nations et le mouvement de colonisation. II assure Ia fondation de joumaux, d'ecoles, de colle ges et de services sociaux. Son oeuvre a ete grande et pleine de merite.

March I 0, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 25 1 Je suis certain que tous les Manitobains et Manit obaines se joignent a moi pour apporter nos meille urs voeux en cet anniversaire. Merci beaucoup. [Translation] Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am very pleased this afternoon to honour the St. Bonif ace Diocese. Last December 8 marked the official opening of a year of celebrations around the !50th anniversary of the founding of the Catholic Diocese of St. Bonif ace.

Several thousand Manitobans will, in the course of the year, have the opportunity to join in these celebrations and to become better acquainted with its great and fine history. On July 16 , 1818 , three Catholic missio naries landed before Fort Douglas here on the Red River. They represented the first permanent Christian presence in the west. Thanks to the vision and generosity of Lord Selkir k, they laid the foundations of a great undertak ing which marked not only our province but all of Canada. Twenty-nine years after the arr ival of the first missiona ries- Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please.

Could I ask the members wanting to carry on a conversation to do so either in the loge or out in the halls. The honou rable member for St. Bonif ace is att empting to put forward his statement at this time. The honou rable member for St. Bonif ace, to continue. Mr. Gaudry: Thank you. Twenty-nine years after the arrival of the first missi onaries, St. Bonif ace became a diocese on June 4, 18 4 7. This diocese stretched from the Great Lakes to the Rockies and from the American border to the North Pole. It was a vast mission territory comprising only two parishes, St. Bonif ace and St. Francois Xavier.

In the course of the last ISO years, the St. Bonif ace Diocese has played a significa nt role in the development of the Metis nation, education, health care, the entry of Manitoba into the Canadian Conf ederation, treaty negotiations with First Nations and the coloni sation movement. It undertook the founding of newspapers, schools, colleges and social services. Its work has been great and filled with merit. I am certain that all Manitobans will join with me in offering their best wishes on the occasion of this anniversary. Thank you very much. ORDERS OF THE DAY THRONE SPEECH DEBATE (Fifth Day of Debate) Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Resuming debate on the proposed motion of the honourable member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Tweed) for an address in reply to the Speech from the Throne and the proposed amendment of the Leader of the official opposition and the proposed subamendment of the honoura ble member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux). Ms. Diane McGiffo rd (Osborne): I am pleased to rise today and join in the debate, or join in the responses to the throne speech, although I must admit at the onsla ught, and I use the word "ons laught" correctly, I am more pleased to join in the debate than I was to hear the throne speech.

This is the third throne speech that I have heard, Mr. Deputy Spea ker. The first one was in June 19 95, December 19 95, and now March 19 97. So I have grown used to the self -cong ratulatory airs and graces, to the dense rhetoric and the glorious promises of a new heaven and a new earth right here in the province of Manitoba. But I must admit nothing quite prepared me for the arr ogance and cynicism of this speech and the assumption that the people of Manitoba cannot or will not put two and two together and come up with four.

This throne speech simply will not dupe the people of Manitoba no matter how hard the government tries. I refer, of course, to the Premier's new pose and the implicit promises of a gentler, kinder Manitoba. It appears that this Premier and his mini sters are now going to become friends of children and of aboriginal people. I would assume that the government has read the polls and this government understands that the people of Manitoba are appalled by child poverty, so

252 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 10, 1997 what they are going to do is cast a few bucks, I suppose, in the direction of child ren and of aboriginal people. Once again, after starving our Manitoba children and denying aboriginal people for nine years, the government is going to change its tune.

I hope for the sake of child ren and for the sake of aboriginal people that this Tory relationship differs from that vis a-vis Manitoba women, for this government has long posed, long marketed itself as a friend of Manitoba women, but I think they have put more energy into the marketing than they have into the friendship with Manitoba women. I will return to the subject of women- Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. I hate to inter rupt the honourable member, but if we will just wait one minute, I think we might have some people who are leaving the Chamber and it might be a little quieter in just a minute.

Could I ask the members who want to carry on their conversa tions to do so in the hall so that I can hear the honourable member's presenta tion. Thank you. The honourable member for Osborne, to continue. *

(1430) Ms. McGiff ord: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I was speaking about the government's supposed change in attitu de, their decision to provide services for the poor, their decision to give a little attention to aboriginal people, and I was hoping that this decision to suddenly be charitable was not like the charity they have extended to Manitoba women, since that charity is, as I said, more a marketing game than it is a reality. It would seem to me that the people of Manitoba will have little faith in the Premier's (Mr.

Fiimon) throne speech, the arc hitect onics or the structural design of which seems to me to be a rotting house which the owner, a kind of entrepreneur who has been around the block a few times, decides to doctor up in order to sell. We all know the tricks-add a coat of paint to cover unsightly fl aws, slap up some cheap wallboard to cover decay, run up a few inexpensive window dressings, all of these things may help to sell. I think a slick entrepreneur might market a tarted-up residence of this kind but only to a woefully imperceptive and almost blind customer.

Those who hold shares in the real estate company that marketed such a residence would of course cheer, but the average customer would not be taken in. It would be absolutely no sale. Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, this is a way of saying that the Premier's tarted-up throne speech will not sell to the majority of Manitobans, and it will only add furthermore to the growing cynicism and distrust of politicians. We hear it everywhere, people weary of empty political rhetor ic, people weary of promises made today and broken tomorrow, and this kind of throne speech seems to me absolute fodder for that kind of criti cism .

I know the Premier was recently eulogized in the Manitoba Chamber of Commerce's public:ation Focus and that he was reputed to have been in great form when he was in Davos, Switzerland, this winter. Apparently the Premier made his fifth annual trip to Davos while the rest of us stayed at home and froze our you-know-whats. I know that, according to Focus, a certain British journali st. one Alan Ferguson, flew from England to Manitoba and was allegedly {:cstatic over the wonders of our Premier's brilliance. In fact, this Mr.

Ferguson came up this morning in the Winnipeg Free Press in an art icle by Frances Russell, and I want to refer to this article. Mr. Deputy Speaker. The

article is on Tory engineers at work on the University of Manitoba, and Alan Ferguson apparently wrote an arti cle on Manitoba featuring our Premier. Our Premier had stellar billing in a publication called WorldLink which I assume means Wor ldLink is available interna tionally to people ��verywhere. Anyway. the author of World Link reported our Premier's views on our universities and I want to quote. Alan Ferguson. the article's author. writes that the Premier (Mr.

Fil mon). and here is the quotation from Alan Ferguso n: ·· .. . argues that the universities are not producing the right kind of graduates for the ne\\ economy. He has moved to central ize control:' that is. the Premier has moved to centralize control, .. over universities and community colleges to in fluence spending prioriti es. In this he has the suppor t of many business leaders. some of whom speak with undisguised contempt at the failu re of universities to change with the times to produce business -oriented graduate s. , .,

March I 0, 1997 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 253 The

article goes on to quote a person from Great West Life Ass urance Co., the president, Ray McFeetors, as saying, you should clean them; that is, the universities. "You should clean them out. You couldn't run a business like that." And, of course, the author of this

article poin ts out that universities are not in business, but the point that I want to make is, here is the Premier of this province, presumably a defender of education, public education, but here is the Premier of this province who not only champions Philis tinism within the province but does it interna tionally, appears in an interna tional art icle telling people the world over that our universities are of an inf erior quality or will be soon because they will be completely driven by business. Anyway, this Mr.

Alan Ferguson is apparently by all accounts a leftover legacy of Thatcherism, British Thatcherism, so he certai nly is not an unbiased reporter. I suspect soon, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that he will have his 'right wings' clipped, especially this summer when Labour Leader Tony Bl air tunes in John Major's mostly ailing Tories. So much for Alan Ferguson. On the same subject, that is on focus, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I want to say that I did enjoy the apotheosis of the Tory cabinet. I read all the profiles very carefully.

I enjoyed, too, the letter written by my coll eague for Crescentwood in which he spells out some home truths regarding the sale of MTS. I would like to quote from that letter, and I can table the letter if that is necessa ry. Anyway, I want to quote from the letter. This is a letter by the member for Crescentwood (Mr.

Sale), the NDP critic for In dustry, Trade and Tourism, and I read from him: The government's impossible promise that Manitobans would own a stro ng majority of the shares in the new company, that is MTS, faded to zero only three days into the trad ing, when over 26 million ins tallment receipts had been sold, mostly to ins titutional investors, bringing direct Manitoba ownership down to about 35 percent and falling fast.

Sadly, a good public company which provided high quality services and modest profits to one point million Manitobans is now a private company which will try to serve its 30,000 mostly non-Manitoban shareholders by making maximum profits . If you doubt this, remember that the recently privatized CNR is now 65 percent owned by American investors. And as I said, that is signed by the NDP critic for Indu stry, Trade and Tourism, my coll eague the member for Crescentwood. (Mr.

Ben Sveinson, Acting Speaker, in the Chair) I want to quote from his letter because I think it is impor tant to get the words of the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) on the public record where the public will have access to them, and I think it is important to make the point that this extre mely egregious sale of a Crown corpora tion and, of course, Mr. Acting Speaker, the unprecedented usurpation of democratic rights which accompanied the sale, I think is impor tant to get on the record and make the point that these two actions lie a shadow across both this Chamber and the Province of Manitoba.

La st and most important, the member for Cresc entwood's letter reminds us all that this govern ment cannot be trusted. The sale ofMTS was arguably the worst in a long series of broken promises. This government might have served the interests of its corporate bosses and put a few million dolla rs into the hands of stockbroker friends, but the majority of Manitobans, 67 percent, were against the sale, and they wanted, at the very minimum, some consul tati on. Of course this was denied them, and Manitobans are not pleased.

The sale of MTS and this broken promise, broken promise after broken promise after broken promise, may well be the Trojan horse, the decision from within that will eventual ly destroy this Tory government, and good riddance, of course. I want to tum my atte ntion now from MTS and tum to the throne speech itself . The government claims to be contemplating changes in its attitudes and policies. It promises to begin the fight, to begin the war against child poverty in Manitoba.

As I said earlier, after nine lean years, so the throne speech goes, after these nine lean years the government is now going to tum atte ntion to poor children. I want to take a look at the government's record regarding child poverty and put some of it on the record, the Filmon government's record on child poverty. Let me begin, Mr. Acting Speaker, by

254 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March I 0, 19 97 pointing out that Manitoba has the third worst record of child ren under 18 living in poverty, as well, the worst record for poor chi ldren of single mothers. The rate for all child ren has risen to 23.2 percent, that is, chi ldren living in poverty, from 21. 2 percent in 19 88, reflecting an inc rease of 3, 000 child ren living in poverty; 71 percent of child ren with single mothers are living in poverty. * (1 440) Now, I will speak later and I am sure will speak a great deal over this forthcoming session about the institu tionaliz ation of female poverty.

Ha ve you ever known poor child ren with rich moms? No. The two do not go together. But the point we are ma king here is the huge numbers of poor chil dren in the province of Manitoba and this government's fa ilu re to do any thing about it. Perhaps now something will be done. I am not holding my brea th. As my colle ague from Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) has pointed out, what has happened under this government is that things have become worse. We have gone from 21. 2 percent in 19 88 to 23.2 percent and 3, 000 extra child ren living in poverty, as I have already said.

As well, Winnipeg Harvest reports that it is assisting an average of 17 ,000 fa milies a month through its food bank. This is an increase from last year's monthly average of 15 , 000 fam ilies. A couple of weeks ago, Mr. David Northcott from Winnipeg Harvest visi ted our caucus, as I am sure he visi ted the caucus of members opposite. He spoke about the stagg ering numbers of child ren at Ha rvest. He told us that 5 percent of the population of Winnipeg eats food bank food. I suppose that would mea n that 5 percent of the chi ldren in Winnipeg eat food ban k food.

He also told us that the growth in the users of food banks in rural Manitoba over this last year has been the greatest growth in the last I 0 years. These are stag gering pieces of information and do not bode well for the future of our chi ldren in Manitoba nor for the integrity of the members opposite. Here are some of the things the government has done in recent years : forced the city to reduce food allowances for child ren due to the standa rdization of social assistance rates. I remember Bill 36. I remember sitting well into the night. The member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) was there.

Some members opposite were probably there as well. We heard citizen after citizen put their concerns on the record, and I do not think that even one amendment, one of the amendments of our critic, the member for BuJTows (Mr. Martindal e), was accepted . It was as though the public were completely bla nked out and not lis tem:d to. Let me get on. As well, this government has reduced provincial social assis tance rates, including rates for fam ilies with child ren-or example, single parents with children over the age of six. But what I understand now, Mr.

Acting Speaker, is that mothers with children under six are also being haras sed and bullied and forced into the labour market and expected to find care for their chi ldren and lea ve their child ren. As well, the government has fa ile d to impl ement the Health of Manitoba's Chi ldren, and I am speaking here of the Dr. Post) report, which also inclu ded some very fine recommendations on child poverty. I do not understand the commissioning of a report and then a blind wilfulness to pay any atte ntion to that report.

Reduced the budget for child care by $4 mill ion per year and reduced the number of subsidiz ed-and I believe they are cases, not spaces. Yes, they would be cases. According to the 1991 census, there we:re 82. 13 5 children under the age of five in Manitoba, and, despite our high child poverty rate, the Filmon government has reduced the number of subsidized child daycare cases from 9,900 for 19 95-96 to 8,600 for 19 96-1 997.

Now, there is a terrible irony here because last week this very government had a distin guished vis itor hen! who had participa ted-! believe he was part of the original Perry Preschool proje ct-speaking about the benefits of early child hood education, of Hea dstart programs, and despite this, this is the very government, the same government that brought this gentleman to town, the same government is now reducing the number of subsidi zed cases that are available for daycares in Manitoba.

I have certainly talked to parents who would be able to work if they were able to access daycare, and I know that I am not the only one. Here is one that really, I think, is extremely serious. The government has fa iled to implement new strategies, as promised, to reduce the high rate of adolescent pregnancy. Sta tistics Canada figures show that the

March 10 , 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 255 province leads the country with a rate of 64.2 pregna ncies per thousand girls aged 15 to 19 . This inf ormation is from October 19 96. Now I happen to know that the pregnancy rate is higher in some areas- this is the average-and lower in others and that in certain areas in our province teenage pregnancy is almost an epidemic.

I think it is also important to make the point that when a young adolescent woman-I suppose all adolescent women are young-so when an adolescent woman has a child, there are two lost children, or nearly always two lost children, because most adolescent girls simply are not able to bring up a child. Birth control may be a dirty word, Mr. Acting Speaker, but certai nly pain, poverty and abuse are even dirtier. Members of the caucus opposite may wish to speak with Dr. Jack Armstrong.

He is a representative from the Manitoba Action Committee for Child ren and Youth and he spoke to our caucus a few weeks ago, along with David Northcott. Maybe you heard from him. He spoke about the 20 percent cutback in nursery school in the city, certainly a direct result of cuts to education in this province, and of course let me reiterate again the importance of Headstart for children. He spoke about the Perry School project. He also apparently has a very serious interest and concern about teenage pregnancy.

This government has also failed to allocate $10 million as promised to the Child ren and Youth Secretariat. I guess the best laid plans of mice and men sometimes come to naught because there is no funding. This Youth Secretariat does not appear to be-well, people tell me they phone and they get an answering machine. The government has also failed to implement their recommendations of the 29 Child ren and Youth Secretariat reports which came in, in June 19 96. The ones I have read make some excellent and remarkable suggestions and the government would do well to pay heed.

As well, the government has elim ina ted the treatment portion of the Children's Dental Program . This was done in 19 93. It formerly served 43,000 children in rural and remote areas. The total savings over three years, $1 1 millio n, the long-term cost of dental work somewhere around twice that, $22.5 millio n.

It would seem to me that dental program s for children whose parents cannot afford this service is a very important investment in the future of health and in the future of Manitoba. * (1 450) In 19 93, the government expanded the base of the provincial sales tax to include children's clothing and baby svpplies. This seems to me petty meanspirited and cert ainly a regr essive tax because it is borne equally by everybody, by haves and by have-nots. It is really a pernicious policy that seems to me to be very much akin to the kind of policy that Preston Manning would advocate . Mr.

Acting Speaker, I want to say a few words about children with special needs and the parents of child ren with special needs. This is another group of child ren and another group of parents who have indeed been badly served by this government. The throne speech mentioned a task force report on special needs and education. Now I know that this report has taken several years to get off the ground. I do not know whether the Minis ter of Education (Mrs. Mcintosh) has been busy meditating and reflecting. Maybe she has been too busy cutting education and bullying teachers.

Anyway it appears that this long-awaited special needs review is underway, but frankly, many parents are nerv ous. Many parents are nervous about this review. I attended a meeting of a group called the Coalition for Chil dren. I mentioned this in the House before. I attended a meeting of the Coalition for Child ren living in the community. Last year the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) and the member for Wolseley (Ms. Friesen) atte nded it. The mini sters of the Crown, I might add, were conspicu ous at this meeting only by their absence and by their lack of support.

The parents at this meeting spoke of their struggles to keep their child ren in their homes. They talked about dwindling respite workers. They talked about untrained respite workers. I talked to a young woman from my constituency who has a child with cerebral palsy. She was telling me that she gets two hours respite every week, and when I asked her how she could possibly do anyth ing in two hours, she said her way is to take four hours every two weeks. Four hours every two weeks is what this woman gets, the only respite she gets from very, very stressf ul and

256 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March I 0, 19 97 high-needs care for her child. This does not seem to me to be promoting the health of the child nor the health of this mother. But, to add fuel to the fire, she was telling me that on occasion the respite worker will tum up and the respite worker does not know what to do, so she will have to take time out of those few hours she gets to teach that respite worker. She does not get that time back. She loses it. Then maybe in another month a different worker will come, and she will then be required to tr ain that worker.

So this is one example of the kind of struggle these people face. (Mr. Marcel Laurendeau, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair) This coalition is very concerned about the special needs review. They fear, perhaps, a return to segregated classrooms. They are concerned about overburdened teachers. They are concerned about the labels that they are required to use to refer to their children, labels which they find humilia ting and degrading. What they want, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is a province and a vocabulary which treat all Manitobans, including their very special children, with dignity and with respect.

The issues affecting special needs chil dren require humane public policy responses, partne rships with community, with family, and with government. This coalition of parents is waiting, and they are ready to speak with government. I hope that those conversa tions and that work will be done soon. I want to ask the Minis ter of Education and Training (Mrs. Mcintosh) and the Minis ter of Family Services (Mrs. Mitchelson) to recognize today that all children in Manitoba are special and to institute the support, the programs, and the resources for all Manitoba children.

It seems to me that ignoring this group, as this government has done, is a kind of family bashing, and I know this government prides itself on its att itudes towards family. It claims to love familie s, to embody the virtues of the family, but I think the policie s, the treatment of the poor children in Manitoba, the treatment of children with special needs, is li ttle more than family bashing. I want to stick with that expression, family bashing. Let us move away from famil y bashing. Let us stop it.

Ins tead, I ask the members opposite to do this: let us recognize the famil y as the cornerstone of our communit y. The famil y is the basic building block in our social structure and let us start respecting the family. I remember. too, and ask you to remember, ask members opposite to remember, that the measure of morality is not how we treat the strongest amongst us, but the measure of morality is how we treat the weakest amongst us. I point out to you that the Chamber of Commerce is thriving.

They do not need your help, but the child ren of Manitoba, the women of Manitoba, the poor women in Man itoba, do need your he:lp. Followin g the example of the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Do1�r), quoting Shakespeare seems to be almost de rigueur these days, and so I want to take my text from Richard III: "Now is the winter of our discontent/Made glorious summer by this sun of York." Margaret Thatcher introduced a winter of discontent into Britain in 19 79-1 980. Our Premier (Mr.

Filmon) has introduced a winter of disco ntent, and I ask this Pr emier today to Iiisten to that quotation and to become, as the play would have him be, the sun, and make this winter of discont1!nt glorious summer. The Premier. we know, has the power. The Premier has the money. People over there are forever bragging about their surpluses and about their very clever financ ial management. So I ask you today to use some of this. All it requires to make a glorious summer in this province is a li ttle bit of human decency and politica l will and an ele ction.

I want to change hats and move on to the women of Manitoba and ask the rhetorical question, what has this government done for the women of Manitoba? I know that on March 5 I reviewed what the government had done for the women of Manitoba when the Minis ter for the Status of Women did a puff piece on her government's work for Manit oba women. Now, the min ister's intentions, the in tentions of the Minis ter for the Status of Women are no doubt noble but, as the saying goes, the primrose path to Hell is paved with good in ten tions. I think, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, that this Min ister for the Status of Women simply does not get it. She simply does not understand that the quality of lif e for numbers of women since 19 88 has plummeted and that the Minis ter of Fin ance's balanced budget is balanced on the backs of Manitoba's women and Manitoba's children.

March 10 , 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 257 This, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is once again an exam ple of what I was ref erring to as fa mily bashing. Now, I could go on for quite some time about this government's record on women, but suffice it to say that provincial government policies and cuts, augmented I must say by the pernicious federal policies, by the changes to the CHST, both provincial government and federal government are impoverishing Manitoba women.

They are denying them services, economic security, respectful emplo yment, denying them a full compl ement of health care. * (1 500) Then of course there is the issue that I alluded to earlier and I am sure other members may speak at at greater length. There are problems with child care, fam ily violence court. I think the waiting time is something like six months, and there are continuing problems with maintenance and cuts to fa mily disputes, last year a 2 percent cut. Everybody in that community is on pins and needles waiting for the budget on Friday to see if they will have a further cut.

The community of women, the women who run shelters, resource centres, second stage housing simply cannot absorb another cut. They are already ju st, ju st squeaking by. I noticed in the throne speech that the government bragged about its shelter system and I think described its system as the best in the country, and I just do not quite understand how the government can arbitrarily decla re its system the best in the country. I do not know how other provinces would feel about this decla ration.

But it also said that there were going to be increases to the shelter system, and I am very interested to know what these increases are and will certainly keep a close eye on them and monitor them very carefully.

I have been talking about some of the problems, some of the cuts that Manitoba women have suff ered since 1988, and I must say finally what most sticks in my craw, what bothers me the most is the concerted effort on the part of this government-! am going to tell you right now what really bothers me the most finally is the government's concerted effort to viola te the dignity of the most, of a very, very vulnerable group in our soci ety, single parents on welf are.

Not only are mothers with child ren over six being frogmarched out of their homes and into mostly low-paying, no-benefit jobs, many of them live in fear of losing these positions and so being returned to the mercy of this government but, also, single parents with child ren under six, in cl ear viola tion of what we were told in the House, these single parents, as I said earlier, are being haras sed and bullied and forced to seek emp loyment, leaving their children at home. This is another example of the fa mily bashing that I talked about earlier.

Now, I know this is happening, because I have had several cases in my own constituency where women are being haras sed in smaller or larger ways, and it simply is a viola tion of what we were led to bel ieve would exist. Mr. Deputy Speaker, this government undermines youth with cuts to child care and education. Of course, we heard a lot of discussion about education today . We heard the Minister of Education (Mrs. Mcintosh) argue with members opposite, blindly deny that there has been 2 percent cut, 2 percent cut, freeze, 2 percent cut, freeze, blindly deny this, or willfully deny this, I should say.

She has not spoken or has not addressed the issues of large classrooms, a paucity of textbooks in the classrooms, cutting resource teachers. The problems go on and on. I remember last year during the Education bill committee hearings, teacher after teacher, school after school talking about the difficulties of trying to run a cla ssroom in this day and age. My point here is that the government is undermining youth with its cuts to child care.

With its cuts to education this government is undermining seniors by their threats last year to home care-the home care debate certainly is not finished yet-and by running a really slipshod personal care home system. As the member for Kil donan (Mr. Chomia

k) has been pointing out day after day, this system needs some review and needs it right now. Now the government is undermining single parents on welf are by imposing inordinate restrictions on social assistance. These are a few examples of fa mily bashing. The government is real ly putting the squeeze on Manitoba's fa mily, and our No. I priority, the No. I priority of an NDP government would be our determination to respect

258 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March I 0, 19 97 fam il ies, to respect fam ily lif e, to tum the heat off the fam ily, to encou rage fa mily life and to put people first. Our priority and our commitment is clear in our leader's alternatives, the alternatives that he announced on Februa ry 27, 19 97, just prior to the opening of the House. Now, I understand my time is running out, so I will just quickly make a couple of points. I wanted to say that I am very ple ased to hear the ballet is travelling to Edinburgh.

I have been a long-time season ticket hold er, and I certainly respect our Royal Winnipeg Balle t. I wish now if only our government, this government would utilize the arts groups and the artists in our city to promote tourism and so help scotch the urban decay that threatens Winnipeg. This government is no friend to the city of Winnipeg, and I certa inly ask the Minister of Urban Affairs (Mr. Rei mer) to pay some at tention and to chat with his Premier. The words from his Premier this morning were disil lusion ing, to say the least.

I hope too that the Minister of Education has now read the polls and now cons iders breakf ast and nursery programs to be educational benefits and not just community enhancements. Finally, recently I had a tea with seniors in Osborne, and I asked them what Manitoba needed most, and their answer was immed iate, unequivocal and una nimous: an election right now, please. Hon. Mike Radcliffe (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Aff airs): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I rise today with pleasure to speak to this throne speech, which has been put before this Chamber, has been put before the people of Manitoba.

I would not be so timorous or- An Honourable Member: Picayune. Mr. Radcl iffe : -picayune, yes, as to suggest to my erstwhile honourable col league across the way that maybe the constituents of Osborne were suggesting an election for the purposes of re-electing another Film on government to run this province. The people of Manitoba have consistently supported the Film on government over the last eight years, nine years, and there has to be a reason for that .

I would suggest that one of the reasons that the people of Manitoba have opted to support the Filmon government as manif ested from the values and the standards and goals that are presented in this throne speech is for one very significant reason, and my honourable coll eague across the way touched on this issue and that is the issue of keeping your word. She spoke of the dying days of the last session when we were debating in this very Chamber the MTS debate and the sale of share s.

I would like to put on the record today, because I think that the people of Manitoba should know as to correct the misi nformation or the misa pprehension that might have been le:ft by our honourable col l eague across the way, that in fa ct I am told that the Le ader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer), the honourable Leader of the Opposition, wrote to the Premier and made a commitment as to when this House would rise. He committed in writing as to when his party would agree to allow us to rise.

I am told in addition that there was a mem orandum of understanding committing to writing this issue, and then we all agreed unanimously in this House to when we would rise and all bills and all issues that were before this House would be concluded and voted upon, and then what did the individuals across the way have the audacity to do? They did not respect their word, and you know what the people of Manitoba do with people who do not respect their word and hold to a bargai n?

They are dispensed with. * (15 10 ) When my honourable colleague across the way starts talking ·about elections, perhaps the members of the opposition should perhaps review their activities and be a little more respectful of their commitments , respectful of their opinions of themselves. Mr. Deputy Speaker, what the Filmon government has brought before the people of Manitoba and what has been presented in this throne speech today is some of the intrinsic foundation of how this province is progressing into the new mil lennium. We have introduced balanced budget legislation.

We have gone out to the people of Manitoba and we have asked them whether this is what they wanted, and you know what, people are continually coming back to us and saying, well done, keep it up, we admire, we respect your

March I 0, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 259 balanced budget legislation. We respect your fiscal probity and, in fact, not the prevaricating mewling which we may hear floating around this Chamber from some unknown sources. Rather, this government has introduced the toughest balanced budget legislation in the entire country. We are not faced in Manitoba with a situation where cit izens are taking a Premier to court for misapplying or misin terpreti ng the facts of the prov ince's finances, not how we see the issue faced with the ind ividuals beyond the Rocky Mountai ns.

We are not facing a management of a province which has been driven into bankruptcy by feckless, mindless spending which, if we lis ten to our honourable friends across the way, we would be induced with. Not so, Mr. Deputy Speaker. This government has introduced balanced budget legislation with teeth in it. The second plank of our pl atform which is represented in this speech is that we have maintained a tax system in this province that is fair and competitive. We are one of the few jurisdictions in the country of Canada that has actually through our tenure reduced taxat ion.

We have removed taxes from the people of Manitoba. The people of Manitoba had said to us unila terally that they are-the people of Manitoba have said to us, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that they do not want any more taxes. We li sten to the people of Manitoba. We do not dance to some arrogant academic prerogat ive or mandate which we hear in this Chamber being voiced by some of the other members of this Assembly. We lis ten to the real people in Manitoba.

These are farmers; these are parents; these are small merchants; these are labourers; these are people who are talking to us and telling us what they need, and do you know what? They are sick and fed up with mindless, endless taxation, and that was what we were going to be faced with if you listened to the mandate and the agenda of our honourable coll eagues across the way. We have changed the direction of this province and introduced a concept of prosperity and accountab ili ty. Mr.

Deputy Spea ker, this government has consis tently introduced an economic plan which is going to be building aggressively on our many strengths to bring Manitoba into the new century. My honourable col league from the front bench here the honou rable minis ter of child and family services says the best form of support that we can give any citizen in Manitoba is-do you know what that is? That is a job. My honourable coll eagues across the way are stuck for an answer when I ask that question because that is not something with which they are familia r. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, on one hand, we are proceeding into the future and to a glorious future for the people of Manitoba with economic prosperity. We have one of the lowest levels of unemployment in this country. We are coming in well below the national level of unemploy ment, and there has to be a message there. Do you know what has happened in Manitoba? The Fil mon government has put Manitobans back to work.

What they have done is they have created an environment where capital wants to come to Manitoba. [inter jection] My honourable colleague from Portage Ia Prairie says that they are actual ly flocking in here from Ontario to create jobs for Manitobans.

Now, one of the things which I would take great delig ht in explaining, and I should perhaps do this monosyllabically for the edification of our honourable coll eagues across the way, is that the Filmon government has maintained its social program s to support some of our less fortunate indivi duals in Manitoba and to manif est and to ill ustrate this poin t-[inter jection]Ah, the honou rable Minis ter of Agriculture (Mr. Enns) is making some allusions to the care and compassion of the Deputy Speaker, and I applaud him for that. But Mr.

Deputy Speaker, before I get off track, I want to tell our honou rable colle agues across the way, and this is just an ill ustra tive statistic from the Child and Family Services, that in Manitoba for the age group of those child ren on assi stance between the ages of 11 and 17 , if one were to remove the rental or accommodation aspect of support, that which is something which varies from city to city, the actual numbers that are paid for rental housing, if you remove that component, Manitoba- guess what, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, where do you think Manitoba rates in the country of Canada on the support of young children between the ages of 11 and 17 ? I am pleased to stand here today and tell my hono urable coll eagues, although they may have problems grasp ing this fact, but I also want to tell the people of Manitoba that this Manitoba government, this

260 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 10 , 19 97 Film on government, is No. 1 in the suppor t of those less fortunate individuals who fall into that category, and that is taking into account the untold wealth that we see on either coast from the people of Ontario or the people of British Columbia. Little Manitoba steps forward to the mark. We are saying that we think so much of our youth that we are prepared to support them at the best rate in this entire country. * (1 520) Now we heard about child poverty.

We heard about all the indivi dual cases that our honourable col league across the way was citing, and I do not for a min ute deprecate the integrity of the advocate over there nor some of the specifics which she may have been addressing, but a government, and especially the individuals in this Chamber, must look at our rat ing and our status in the entire na tion. When I can say we are No. 1 in this signifi cant attri bute, and we have said that these people are so important to us, that has got- Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Even the NDP provinces. Mr.

Radcliffe : Even the NDP provinces, says my honourable coll eague the Min ister of Health. That displa ys a commitment. We do not hear about that from our erstwhile coll eagues across the way. Do you know what? I was just writing down, while the honourable member for Osborne (Ms. McGif ford) was talking, and I was picking out some of the character words that we were hearing. And do you know what she was saying?

I heard "onsla ught." I was hearing "arroga nce," "distrust," "slick entrepr eneur,'' "tar ted up." Another thing, I learned a lesson in biolo gy today because my honourable col le ague across the way was referring to her you-know-whats were getting frozen. I did not know that was an endowment which my honoura ble coll eague enjoyed, but nonetheless I accept that. She is telling me that she was endowed with those. Nonetheless, what this Filmon government is doing and has been represented in this throne speech is we are entering into a creating and a partic ipating in a sense of community.

We are causing people in Manitoba to start to think differently about themselves, about our province and about our pla ce in this wonderf ul countr y of ours. Too long people in Manitoba under the regime of the individuals across the way had a chip on their shoulder, had thought it was a cannot do, that we were second best. I congratulate my coll eagues on this side of the House that they have been able to spread a sense of optimism throughout this province. They have been able to tell the people of Canada ar.d the people of North America that this is a pla ce to do business.

This is a pla ce where you have a quality of lif e, a pla ce where one wants to be. In fact, in support of that contention, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I can tell my honourable coll eagues and the people of Manitoba that in this past year there have been 23,900 new jobs created in Manitoba. Now we are looking at the streets of Mon treal where there are boarded-up stor es. We hear the stories about the homeless people on the streets of Toronto.

We hear about the NDP jurisdiction on the West Coast that insis ted on a 90-day cooli ng-of f period bef ore people were entitled to welfare. and our federal government had to ride to their rescue and dump some fresh money into the province of British Columbia. which is presumably our wealthiest province or one of our wealthiest provinces. but we in Manit oba have created 23,900 new jobs and that there is repetition because the people of Manit oba hear too long and too often about the doom and the gloom that is emanating from the benches across the way. (Mr. Ger ry McAlpine. Acting Speaker, in the Chair) Mr.

Acting Speaker. we must make sure that an upbeat and positive mess age gets out to the citizens of Manitoba to the people on Portage A venue, that in fact you come to Manitoba because you have the chance to work. You have the chance to take pride in account ing for yourself, supplying your own needs, not being dependent on some sort of a handout or hand down or welf are. I have heard individuals tell me that the old welfare system was designed to create dependence. It was designed in order to build up a client base, and that was only to make a system fatter and fatter and fatter.

With the greatest of respect to our honourable col leagues across the way, none of that money was going into creating an envi ronment to make jobs for people.

March I 0, I9 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 26 1 Mr. Acting Speaker, our throne speech has indica ted that we want to make a province where there is job creati on for our children. Last weekend in the Winnipeg Free Press, there was a lead

article which said that we had one of the highest rates of employment for our chil dren in this country. Now I have heard about the deprecating remarks emanating from the different levels of benches across the way referring to McJobs. Well, you know what, when I was working my way through Arts at the University of Manitoba, I took a job pushing a broom for the CPR and I cleaned out toilets and I was a baggage master and I sold tickets . You know what, I was not ashamed of that job. I was proud of that job. I was working with coll eagues in the CPR who did support families on those jobs.

I was a relief - Point of Order The Acting Speaker (Mr. McAlpine): Order, please. The honourable member for Welli ngton, on a point of order? Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington): Yes, I was wondering if the member for River Heights (Mr. Radclif fe) would be open to a brief question. The Acting Speaker (Mr. McAlpine): Are you rising on a point of order? Ms. Barrett: I would like to rise on a point of order, and I would like to ask the member for River Heights if he supp orted a family on the jobs that he is talking about, as many of the single parents and individuals whom we are talking about have to do.

Did he ever support a family on that job? * * * Mr. Radcliffe : Mr. Acting Speaker, in response to the implica tion or the inf erence of my honou rable friend across the way and in response to her question, I would like to tell this House that, in fact, no, I did not suppor t a job because I was working my way through school at that point, but I was summer relief for indivi duals who were working full time at the job that I was doing. These were individuals in the CPR who were proud of what they did. They went somewhere every mornin g, and they had a goal, and they had direction.

They were amply rewarded, and they did support their families. They did not throw up their hands in aimless disgust and say, oh, no, somebody else has to bail me out. They made their own way. As I worked my way through university, I went to law school, and I went out and I was a substitute teacher. I did not have enough money to answer all my needs when I was in university, so therefore I had part time jobs. We are told in that

article in the newspaper today that, in fact, there is a ple thora of jobs out there for our young people so they can be independ ent, so they can hold their heads up high, so they are not taking handouts. Mr. Acting Speaker, we are facing a situation now in Manitoba with a health care situation where our government, the Filmon government, tries to deliver acute care, remedial care, wellness, home care, to the people of Manitoba. We have gone acro ss this province, and we have tried to bring and we have brought health care into the 20th Century, into the 2I st Century as it approac hes. Mr.

Acting Speaker, we have a crisis with health care as we are an aging population. Technology is changing in health care. We presented to the people of Manitoba a stringent budget. It was a caring budget on health care last year. We in this government devote more wealth of this province, of the peoples' money in Manitoba per capita, to health than any other province in Canada. There again, Manitoba is No. 1. The Filmon government's support in social program ming is better than any other in the country of Canada.

That bears repetition because our honou rable colle agues- An Honourable Member: Say it again. * (I 530) Mr. Radcliffe : We are No. I in the Fil mon government in Manitoba in comparison to other governments across the country of Canada in support per capita of health care. Now, Mr. Acting Speaker, even though we were producing at that level, we went the extra mile. Did you know-and I would ask my honourable col leagues across the way, and I think they would be

262 LEGISL ATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 10 , 19 97 dumbfounded, if that were, in fact, possible, to hear this information-that we spent in addition another $60 milli on over and above what was budgeted, $60 million dollars more to answer the health care needs of the people of Manitoba? That shows that this government is compassionate, it is aware, it is caring, and it is there for the people of Manitoba, for the sick, for the disabled, for the marginalized and for the poor. Our Pharmacare system that we introduced last year is working very well.

It is supporting and paying for the drugs for all our underprivileged people. This health care support is in the face of a federal distrib ution of money from our federal friends. We face cuts in transfer, in health, in higher education across Canada of $7 billio n-$7 bill ion dollars the federal government took out of the transfers to social welfare, to health and to education. An Honourable Member: 40 percent. (Mr. Marcel Laurendeau, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair) Mr. ,Radcliff e: Forty percent says the honourable member for Portage Ia Prairie.

Even in the face of these draconian cutbacks, the people of Manitoba have been supported by the Filmon government in excess of what we budgeted because of the needs that we perceived. We want to tell the people of Manitoba that this government will be there for you in your need. We are being frugal. We are managing your money well, but when there is real need that is presented, we can say and hold our heads up high that we are not afraid of spending more when it is required. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the Manitoba government is pleased to tell the people of Manitoba that we have now worked with our federal colleagues to rebalance the Canadian federation. We have taken charge of the whole field of imm igration in Manitoba in order to recruit and solicit new individuals, new immig rants to come to Manitoba. You know why we have to do that and why that is imperative that the Manitoba government do that, because there are jobs here and there were jobs that were going unfilled.

Entrepreneurs and business people and factory owners were coming to our government and pleading with us and saying, find skilled workers for us, find people for our factories. You know what, our minis ter, our former Minis ter of Culture and Heritage who sits before me today went to our colleagues and was able to arm wrestle this area of our government over to the control of the province of Manitoba so that the people who were closest to the need were the individuals who were setting the pace for this issue.

The good economic news from Manitoba. which we are proud to set out in this throne speech, pervades every area of activity in the economy of Manitoba. Our manufacturing, the local newspaper ind icates that manufacturing in Manitoba is booming. lt is booming. Our capital investment growth is going to continue to grow. Our throne speech has pointed out that retail sales in Manitoba have grown at twice the national rate over the last two years and we look around us, and this is in a milieu where many provincial economies are faltering but little Manitoba is surging ahead. An Honourable Member: Steamrollering. Mr.

Radcliff e: Steamrollering ahead. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Manitoba is descrilbed in our tourist information as the heart of the country, the heart of the continent. We are prepared and we are taking to the other people of this North American continent the exporting of our goods and services to the economies of Mexico and to the United States. We were: able to do this through the good services of the! NAFT A agr eement, which was signed by the previous federal governmen t- An Honourable Member: Brian Mulrom:y. Mr.

Radcliff e: Ah, yes, and the honourable Minis ter of Industry, Trade and commerce refers to that farsighted individual, the Prime Minis ter that we had in the previous government. This was not our present Prime Minister, who, I mig ht add, came into power implying or saying that he was going to rip up NAFT A, he was going to dissolve it, just as he said that he was going to remove the hated GST. Now, I am the first one to admit that I do not li ke taxation either. Do you know what? I want to be taxed as little as possible. I want to be able to go out and earn

March 10 , 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 263 my daily bread, and I want to be able to take home as much of that as I can. Do you know what? The government in Saskatchewan very, very recently within the last several years indica ted sta tistics that for the citizens of Manitoba, you had the best opportunity to keep your daily bread in Manitoba over all the other provinces in this federation. So there again, Manitoba is No. 1. Number one, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We are ple ased to tell the people of Manitoba that our government is taking trade missions to Brazil.

We are telling the people of Argentina about what is happening in Manitoba. We are taking our goods to Chile, to Ukraine, to Asia and to South Africa. Manitoba is becoming not just the engine of North America, but we are carry ing our mess age to the world. One of the issues which we are pleased to be able to show the continental neighbours of ours in North America is that we are going to be hosting the 19 99 Pan American Games. We are going to be pla ying host to all our collea gues across North and South America. This will bring enhanced trade ; this will bring enhanced invest ments.

Tourist investment and development will burgeon ahead. Community development and cult ural industry will expand as never before with this sort of a step. * (1 540) Mr. Deputy Speaker. our thron e speech has also spoken to the fact that Winnipeg will become a global hub for multimodal transportat ion. Again, do you know what that does? That creates jobs, that creates industry, that creates wealth in Manitoba. This is not a government forcing money into a sterile, government dominated, top-down, hierarchical environment. Not so, these are merchants and entrepreneurs.

We heard them typified earlier as slick entr epreneurs . Well, I beg to differ. We know that the engine of Manitoba is driven by small business. The majority of people in Manitoba are employed in small business enter prises. These are not slick people. But this characterization which our honoura ble coll eagues across the way persist in labelling the people of Manitoba will just ensure that they will be perpetuated in their ongoing critical role of finding fault, pejorative all egations-[inter jection] Joe Spitspick, that is correct, says the honourable member for Portage la Prairie.

There are 34,000 small businesses functioning and functioning well in Manitoba. They employ 83,000 self -employed entrepreneurs . There are the majority of the people in Manitoba, Mr. Deputy Speaker. This accounts for over $3 billion of income, and 28 percent of Manitoba's payroll is based in small business. The socialists who have an ideological bent seem to think that these people do not exist, that they are not worth li stening to.

The Filmon government goes out and lis tens to these people, and when I said that we were lis tening to real individuals, these are some of the people who we are lis tening to in Manitoba, and we continue to lis ten to them and we continue to give them the type of government that they are asking for. There is so much in this throne speech which I am proud to tell you about this, about my honourable coll eagues, about what is in this speech, and the people of Manitoba. I just want to highlight because I know my time is wasting.

I just want to highlight some of the salient, the major points in this speech, in this throne speech. Potato production is surging ahead. Hog production is surging ahead. We are developing and research ing new crops, nontrad itional livestock. We in Manitoba in this government are creating an envir onment where min eral exploration assistance is causing people to flock to Manitoba to tap our mine ral wealth. Petroleum exploration assistance is coming from this government. In order to show the people of Canada that there is real action, Manitoba is open to do business. On the other side of the coin, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, we are sensitive to our parks, to our environment. We are buildi ng a network of protected spaces. We are also going to our less fortunate indivi duals in the- An Honourable Member: NDP? Mr. Ra(lcliff e: Yes-in the aboriginal communities and saying that we want to bring educational services to unemployed aboriginal high school, colle ge and university graduates to make sure that they want a job, because they are eager to work. They want to work for their future.

Our government has proceeded with and signed and put in the can seven treaty land entitlement agreements, and we are working on new agreements with an additional 19 bands. In al l the history of Manitoba from the 19 30s when the transf er of land was

264 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 10 , 19 97 made to the provinces, it has fa llen and devolved on the shoulders of this government to finally effect these arrangements with our First Nations col leagues. Our educa tion is surging ahead . We have lis tened to the parents in Manitoba who have told us that they want objective outcomes, they want standard ization, they want curricula change, they want accountab ility. Do you know what?

Our honourable coll eagues across the way, I think-and I say this sonorously-! think they may be afraid of accountab il ity, and I hes itate to say that in this Chamber, but that may well be the basis on which they criticize our educational policies. Now, I would say this very hesitantly, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We are creating a partnership with the individuals who are the key pla yers in the Manitoba community. There is the Mennonite Central Committee, our Taking Charge ! initia tive that we have presented, Youth NOW.

These are all opportunities for Manitobans to live, to work and to raise a fam ily not only this year, not only next year but into the next century. We can look back and say with gratitude, with undying gratitude, that it was because of the forethought, it was because of the wisdom, it was because of the vigour, and it was because of the good government that we get from the Fi lmon government. That is what is in this throne speech, and I thank you for the opportunity to put a few of these remarks on the record today. Ms.

Rosano Wowchuk (Swan River): I am very pleased to have the opportunity today to put a few words on the record with respect to this throne speech, and I hope some comm ents that are a little bit more accurate than some of the things that we have been hearing. But I want to begin by welcoming back the pages to this House who serve us so well and the new staff people who are joining us at the table.

I also want to wish the new minis ters well who have taken on new responsibili ties and hope that they have the opportunity to really be in charge in their department and that they will not be controlled by the Premier's (Mr. Fi lmon) office as we have seen in an ar ticle ju st recently. In fac t, it is not elected members but staf f of the Premier who dictate what will happen in this province. I want to also recognize the two minis ters who wen� removed from cabinet and wish them well in their future plans. But, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, before I speak on the throne speech I want to spea k a bit about what happened here in this House on November 27 and 28. The mernber who just spoke before me made comments about a memorandum of understa nding that we as opposition did not li ve up to. The member should remember that it was his government that did not have their act together and did not have the amendments in place with the MTS bill, amendments dealing with pensions of the emplo yees of Manitoba Telephone that this government tried to shaft when they were privatizing the Man itoba Telephone System.

It was because members on this side of the House worked with the people who were involved that some of those issues were addressed, but it was the day after the House was supposed to end that the government was still bringing forward amendments. So, in fa ct, it is the government who did not live up to their part of the agreement, but the government has options. That is why there were words such as "normally .. in the rules. But the member also said that we did not li ve up to our word. I can tell you that this government is the one that has not liv ed up to their word.

Who was it that said: No, we are not selling MTS, no, we will not be selling MTS? It was members of the government. It was the Premier (Mr. Fil mon) who said during the campaign that they would not sell MTS. * (1 550) On other issues. who was the government that said, no, we will not be moving away from sin gle-desk selling of hogs? We heard that from members of the government, but they changed their word after the government. So we know that this government has a lot of responsibil ity, has to be held accountable for them not living up to their word.

But I have to tell you that when I ran for office I promised my constituents that I would be a strong voice for them, and our rights as opposition members were taken away from us on November 27 and 28 when we were not allo wed to speak. That, Mr. Deputy Speaker, will be two bl a ck days in Manitoba hi story that will go

March 10 , 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 265 down as days when we were a one-party state and opposition had no role, or, perhaps, as my colleague says, it was a one-man state where one person was calling the shots and the rest of us who wanted to put on the record concerns that were raised by our constituents did not have that opportunity. The government can say what they like about the opposition, but they are the ones that will go down in history as putting a black mark on the history of Manitoba.

They had the opportunity to use closure, but they chose instead to abuse the Speaker and have her do the dirty work for them just as we have seen this government do in other cases. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think that that is a disgrace, di sgraceful the way this government abused the rules of this House.

I have to say that I would hope that the government would recognize this and would support the bill that was put forward by my colleague the member for Thompson today which will lead us to an elected Speaker, and one that I have not heard anybody from the other side of the House speak about, but certainly the House of Commons has an elected Speaker, many provinces have an elected Speaker.

There is not any reason why we should not have one here, and there is not any reason why we cannot go back and look at some of the rules that were in place and see how they can work again to have this House run in a more democratic fashion, but certainly we cannot have what we had before where the Premier orders the Speaker as to what should be done and the rights of the opposition should be ignored. An Honourable Member: That is not true. Ms. Wowchuk: Well, the Minis ter of lndustry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Downey) says it is not true. The record speaks for itself, and we were denied our right to speak.

The Leader of the Opposition stood up on a matter of privi lege and he was not recognized. It was the government who broke the rules on that one and shamed Manitoba. I want to take some time to raise a few comments about the throne speech. Before I do that, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I want to say that between the last session and before we came back to this House we spent a lot of time travelling in rural Manitoba and listening to people across the province. I can tell you that Manitobans do not support this government's position on the sale of MTS.

The government ignored them, and this government reminds me of some other governments who have been in power for too long, and they tend to isolate themselves inside their offices and ignore rural Manitobans and ignore Manitobans across the province, and that is what they are doing here. They are not li stening to what Manitobans really want, and I encourage them to take the time and really go out there and lis ten to the people. I have to say that when we were out at our meetings, there were many issues that were raised, and I would like to talk about a few of them.

One of them in particular is what is happening to education and the cutbacks that we have seen by this government and the offload onto municipalities. You know the government likes to have people think that they have not raised taxes, but when you look at their record and the increases we have seen in municipal taxes, on education taxes, that is only one area where we have seen offloading and indirect taxes because of this government.

The other issue that was raised on education when I met with people in my constituency is people are concerned with special needs students and the purpose of government' s calling for a special needs review. I have to tell you that the public feels that this is just another-it will be another cutting measure. They will go out and listen to people and then they will cut, or they will pretend they lis ten to people and then they will cut.

I want to tell you that I feel that the government has to be very careful with what they are doing with special needs children, and by the cutting that they have done to education funding, they have put pressure on teachers and on parents, and it appears that they are moving to the extent where people will become frustrated because all children are not having the opportunity to get a good education, and we will end up moving towards a more segregated education system.

The government must keep in mind that all children are special child ren and all children should be given the opportunity to learn to the best of their ability. Some have the skills to learn at a much higher ability than others, but those should not suf fer because of government cutbacks and nor should those who have special needs and nor should the average child suffer because of government cutbacks.

266 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March I 0, 19 97 Mr. Deputy Speak er, I want to say that we have in this province many childr en who are, unfortunately, hungry chil dren, not by their own choice, but because of the ci rcumstances that we live in. We know that hungry chil dren cannot learn properly. It is di sappointing that this government has chosen to cut back on nutrition programs in schools, and I think that is one thing they have to recognize, that we as a society have a responsibil ity to ensure that chil dren are not hungry .

We heard the member from across the way just talk about how great things are in Manitoba, but he refuses to recognize that we have some of the poorest chil dren in this province. We have a responsibility to ensure that they are fed and that they have the opportunity to get an education and some day play an impor tant role in society. Perhaps some ofthose hungry chil dren, if they are given the opportunity, mi ght have the opportunity some day to sit in this Chamber as well and represent people of this province.

We cannot ignore the fact that this is what is happening in this province, and I am afraid that, although this government wants to paint a wonderful picture of how goods things are here in Manitoba, we do have poor children; we have childr en who are not getting a proper education. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I want to touch on another area that has been raised many times while we have been visi ting in rural Manitoba, and that is the whole area of regionalization of our health care system.

I have to say that the ongoing cuts to health care and the government's move to health privatization are one of the major concerns of Manitobans. The major initiative of this government is to establish regional health boards, and, as I say, there is a widespread concern that regionalization will lead to loss of control, of local control, over services as well as continued funding cuts.

There was a meeting earlier this year in Dauphin, in March, where municipal people from across the province got together and rai sed their concern with the government's plan to regionalize and in fact asked. the government to delay their plan and spend more time li stening to the people. The Minis ter of Health came out to that meeting, but the government refuses to listen. * (1 600) I would advise the government to look at what is happening in New Zealand, the model that this system is being built on. What is happening there? Dr.

Evelyn Shapiro, who has renowned knowledge on health care, tells us that in New Zealand, where this model is in place, there are longer waitin

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	36-3-6a
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	36th 3rd hansardpdf 6a.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	daee4dd989b236fa6aacc9794d392dd967500f23

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