VOL. 1 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00p.m. MONDAY, AUGUST 13, 1979 NO. 21

August 13, 1979 Tape 736 PK - 1 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : Order, please!· On behalf of hon. members,I would like to welcome to the galleries today two of the Public Accounts Chairmen from different parts of Canada, Mr. Reid from Ontario - and Mr. Andrew from Saskatchewan. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! ORAL QUESTIONS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Burgeo-Bay d'Espoir. MR. SIMMONS : Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett).~ in his absence 1 perhaps I could address the question to the hon. the Premier.

It relates to a very tragic event on Friday, the helicopter crash near Clarenville. The House is aware that the operators of that particular helicopter also have a contract with government to provide helicopter services and that is in that particular vein that I address the question. I am fully aware that the Provincial Government has no juridiction whatsoever over the safety of aircraft.

I wonder could the Premier indicate to the House, in view of the two or three accidents with this type of aircraft, this Bell Jet Ranger- ~nd it should be pointed out that the accidents have happened not only in this particular jurisdiction here,or involving equipment of the particular owner here, but one noted case is in Quebec quite recently where I there was quite a loss,like five persons, I believe,lost their lives in a similar situation where there was a sudden failure of the engine in a Bell Jet Ranger.

I wonder could the Premier indicate to the House whether the particular phenomenon of this loss of engine power by this type of aircraft has previously come to the attention of government and if the matter is being investigated to determine that it is a safe piece of equipment to be using? And again, Mr, Speaker, just one other word by way of

preamble 1 the question is being asked purely . 1859

August 13, 1979 Tape 736 PK - 2 Mr. Simmons : in light of the fact that a nwnber ·of mi.nist:ers and other public officials are regularly using this type of aircraft a::d !.t :!.s ae!{.!d i:: ~!lz.t ~.:.::-ti~:.:.!az ~i=.:.t. MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: ~tr . Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Burgee - Bay d ' Espoir (;\l.r . Simmons) for the question. This morning I spoke to the Minister of Transportation and Commw:tications (Mr.

Brettl and we were discussing that very matter that the hon . member now raises, and we are in communication with the officials in the Ministry of Transport as well as with people in the company to pursue this whole question of accidents with that kind of aircraft 1 that kind of helicopter, and with that company to ensure that the proper maintenance proc~ures, to ensure that everything is in pro~er order so that our contract with that company can continue unimpair ed with that kind of risk sort of . 1860

August 13,1979 Tape No. 737 AH-1 PREMIER PECKFORD: hanging over our heads.So we are on top of the situation and are in contact both with the company and with Ministcy of Transport of:ficl.als. MR. SIMMONS: MR. SPEAKER: Burgee-Bay d'Espoir. MR. SIMMONS: A supplementacy.

The hen. member for It is my understanding that the manufacturers of the Bell Jet Ranger had been aware of this phenomenon of sudden engine failure in that type of aircraft sometime and indeed have circulated an internal memo to the purchasers of this type of aircraft warning of sudden engine failure and giving instructions as to what to do about it in the event that it happens The instruction is,as I understand it - I am not at all a specialist in the area of aircraft,! assure you 1 but I understand from people who are that the instruction is quite adequate in those cases where the ai·rcraft has achieved its altitude -there is an instruction as to how to recover from engine failure in that circumstance - but where the aircraft is still ascending, has not received its altitude, apparently the instruction is of no avail 1 there is no way of reactivating the engine again in time.

I understand from preliminary reports that this was the case with the one near Clarenville and the one in Quebec in particular where the aircraft was still in the ascending position.

Perhaps the Premier could indicate 1 if he has the knowledge on the subject or else take under advisement and perhaps the Minister of Transportation and Communications (Mr.Brett) answer it in a day or so, I wonder could he indicate whether this knowledge from the manufacturer of this· sudden engine failure was transmitted to government at the time ~ the contract was entered into or is the government otherwise aware of the particular drawback of this type of aircraft, the Bell Jet Ranger, insofar as sudden engine failure is concerned? . 1861

August 13,1979 Tape No. 737 AH-2 MR. SPEAKER: The hen. the Premier . PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware as to whether the cause of the recent accident was as the hen. member mentions. I do not know if it has been determined yet. I do not know if the final info~tion is in-or rather the investigation is finished so that it can be clearly and unequivocally decided on the evidence that the reason for this particular accident is as the hon. member says it is.

So I think the jury is still out as it relates to this particular accident, albeit there are a number of circumstancial pieces of evidence around which might indicate that the cause of the crash is as the hon . member says but I do not think that it has been conclusively determined as of this moment in time. I can assure the hon. member that the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett) and his people are communicating with the company and with the Ministry of Transport officials.

The memorandum to which the hon. member refers, I am not aware, have not been aware and am not aware at the present moment of such a memorandum. If it is in existance and if we were not aware of it then we will check it cut immediately to see that if in fact there are some special measures 1862

August 13, 1979 Tape 738 EC - 1 PREMIER PEC.a'ORD: that have to be taken wiL~ this kind of craft because of either some defect or some change in its operation and we will most definitely get on to the company to insULe that all matters along those lines are being followed. But I think L~e salient point here, Mr. Speaker, is L~at the Minister of Transportation and Communications (Hr. Brett) and myself talked about the matter this morning and his people were to pursue it with the Ministry of Transport officials and the company, Seal and. ~IR. NEARY: HR. SPEAKER: (Simms) MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker.

The hon. the member for LaPoile. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the l1inister of Finance (Dr. J. Collins). Would the minister indicate to the House, Sir, if the non. gentleman has held meetings with the insurance industry with regard to the government's proposal to add a SO per cent increase to the tax on insurance premiums in this Province? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. J. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, could I ask the hon. member to repeat the first part of the question again? MR. NEARY: Has the hon. gentleman held any meetings with the underwriters or with the insurance industty? DR. J.

COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, yes, we have held meetings. The proposed increase in the insurance premiums tax is from 2 per cent to 3 per cent, so I suppose it is fair to say that is a SO per cent increase, but then a 100 per cent increase of a very small amount still leaves a very small amount. But anyway, to answer the question, yes, we have had meetings with representatives. We have also received submissions from various interested groups and we have considered these submissions. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary.

A supplementary, the hon. the member As a resul~ of these deliberations, Mr. Speaker, would the hon. gentleman indicate to the House if the government ae going to proceed with this SO per cent increase in tax on . 1863

August 13, 1979 Tape 738 EC - 2 I~R . NEARY: insurance premiums or are the government going to amend their original position, or are th.ey going to withdraw tile ta.'f 'l l to c,:et~> er? !-SR. SP£ftl<ER: (Simms) OR. J. COLLINS: 'nle hon . the Mir.ister of Fi nance. Mr. Speaker, tile Budget indicated that •.re would be bringing in a certain tax measure in this field . ile have not made any decision to the contrary at the present time and we do not expect co make any decision to the contrary . MR. THOMS: :1a. SPSAl<ER: MR. THOHS: Mr. Speaker. The hon. the member for Grand Bank. Mr.

Speaker, I will explain to caucus later why I am asking this particular question . I would like to ask the 1-tinister of Education (~Is Verge) wnether or not the re is any indication ~~at the stolen biology and his tory ex~nations went beyond ~,e city of St. John's? In otheci" ~otords, were they used in Corner Brook , Grand Falls or around ~,e Pro vince ? . 1.864 ..

August 13, 1979 MR. SPEAKER: (SiiiUIIs) MS. L. VERGE: Tape No. 739 SD - 1 The han. Minister of Education. Mr. Speaker, the answer to that ~~estions is no. ~ere is no evidence that any of the public axam papers were circulated before the exams were written in any place other than the City of st. John's. <IR. SPEAKER: The han. member for Eagle River. MR. E. HISCOCK: I would like to ask my question to the Premier. I would like to ask the question, what happened to the original red book interim agreement, the original DREE agreement that the provincial ~overnment gave to the federal government, the red book.

And is government s till carrying out this policy of the red book. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, if the hen. member is referring to a proposed DREE agre~ent for coastal Labrador, which I think he is 1 the original book or original agreement was presented to the Labrador Resources Advisory Council who in turn held hearings on the coast in those communities that were to be affected by the agreement 1 and for those communities to make some recommendations and suggestions as is related to the various projects that goverrnnent preceives to be necessary on coastal Labrador.

And as a result of that consultation with the Labrador Resources Advisory Council and their subsequent consultation with the coastal residents of Labrador, a second proposal came forward as a result of that consultation and therefore gover=ent amended its agreement accordingly or amended it proposal to accommodate some of the concerns of the local residences. And the people in Intergovernmental Affairs with the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador are in the process of negotiating an agreement with the federal government pursuant to those proposals amended. MR. E • HISCOCK: MR.

SPEAKER: Eagle River• Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the han. member for 1865

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 739 so ·- 2 ~. E. HISCQO<: Also with regard to the statement that the Premier made in Goose Bay Friday concerning the decorum of the House and getting more respect back to the House, did the Premier not see fit that this statement s~uld be made in the House? ~. SPEAKER: (Simms) PREMIER PECKFORD: Th.e bon. the Premier. Mr. Speaker, I h.ave from time to time in this bon.

House, both in' speeches and in s ·tatel!letlts and l.n proposal .s for ch.anqes to the Standing Orders which. all h.on. members have a<p:eed to,I think,anQ. we all have as members indicated our desire,our wish. to pursue better decorum in the House and I think this h.as occurred in the session so far.

And so it is an ongoing thing that I think.. both members can mention in this House and most members h.ave,and I guess we all, too, can mention that in the various regions of :tl'ewfoundla .nd as we go about our business from day to day to indicate to people in Labrador and to people on the Bonavista Peninsula, people on the Burin Pe~ula and people on the Port au Port Peninsula and people on the Great Northern Peninsula that we are desirous as leaders of pOlitics in this Province to pursue a policy of 1866

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 740 DW - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: good decorum in the House, to raise the level of debate in the House as we have done over the last number of weeks,and ·which I hope we will continue to do over the next number of weeks and until another election is called three or four years now. MR. E. HISCOCK: MR. SPEAKER (SIMl'S) : for Eagle River. MR. E. HISCOCK: Final supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

Final supplementary, the hon. member With regard to this statement, Sir, I felt anyway being a member for Labrador and Eagle River that instead of grabbing out to read this that was going to be given to the press, I think it would only be common courtesy to let the members in each riding when these announcements are coming to know about them. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREI<'.IER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's concerns are noted. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. G. WARREN: !'.r. Speaker, my que!;tion was going to be to the Minister of Mines and "Elnergy (1-!r.

Barry) but since he is not in his seat I will ask the hon. Premier. The report on Labrador development by Dr. Angus Bruneau which was passed to the Minister of Mines and Energy in late May1 I was wondering if the hon. Premier could table the report< That is my first question. !'R. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I think the report to which the hon. member refers was presented to the Department of Industrial nevelopment and not the Department of Mines and Energy. I shall take the matter under advisement and consult with the Minister of Industrial Development. MR.

G.WARREN: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Torngat Mountains. 1867

August 13, 1979 Tape !<o. 740, DW - 2 MR. G. WARREN: My next question also will be to the Premier, Mr. Speaker. IS Dr. Angus Bruneau's report - would this report nave any efl'ecc on me ongoing stuciie~ ti1c~.t tilt F:.:·err.ie r announced in Goose Bay on Friday past? Would ~~is report be tying into future studies< MR. SPEAKER: (SIMMS) PREMIER PECKFORD: The hen. the Premier . Yes, Mr. Speaker, that is true. The ongoing studies that have now been let to other consult~ts and so on fit and dovetail with any reports that have been done to date on Labrador. MR. G. WARREN: MR. SPEAKER: for Torngat Mountains. MR. G.

WARREN: Final supplementary, ~r. Speaker. Final supplementary, the hen. member Yes, Mr. Speaker, my next supplementary is also to the Premier. In his report he did note that the Labrador Resources Advisory Council would be their consulting body between the people and the government,! presume. I am just wondering what was Labrador Resources Advisory Council doing the past three years with roughly $300,000 that has been alotted to them by this government? MR.SPEAKER: The hen. the Premier. PREM'IER PECKFORD: Mr.

Speaker, I think the hen. member has not read the reports correctly.In my statement in Labrador on Friday afternoon,! prpposed that the Labrador Resources Advise~/ Council be the primary vehicle through which people from Labrador and residents of Labrador could have input into 'resource development proposals that were being put forward. I did not say that the Labrador Resources Advisory Council would be the primary vehicle, I proposed that they could be the primary vehicle - . 1.868

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 741 NM - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: and there is a big difference. Number two, the second part of the h0n .. u~cllibC:l:' 1 s qu6stion has to av witt.~- what tile Labrador ~asources Advisory Council has been doing over the last three years.

If I am not mistaken 1 one of the other members from Labrador a few minutes ago asked me a question -I do not know if the han. member was in the House or not -and asked about the DREE agreement for coastal Labrador, and part of my answer had to do with the fact that this fairly major document, this major proposal which involved tens of millions of dollars,was a proposal which was given to the Labrador Resources Advisory Council who held meetings in all the communities on Coastal Labrador to gain input from the local residents.

So obviously one of the things that has come out of this Question Period already today, Mr. Speaker, is the fact that the Labrador Resources Advisory Council has been involved in putting together the DREE agreement in coastal Labrador. So that is one of the things they have been doing over the last three years. Secondly, the Labrador Resources Advisory Council are one of the few agencies in the Province which made meaningful input into the oil and gas regulations ~ couple of years ago.

They were one of the few organizations which actually analyzed piece by piece, one by one, all the r~gulations and consulted and made recommendations to government. They present an annual report every year which is public, and I would commend the han. member to get copies of their annual report. And you would see from that the kind of things that the Labrador Resources Advisory Council have been doing on the fishery side, on the mining side, on oil and gas regulations, on DREE agreements they have had their input as well as on a number of very vital native issues. MR.

SPEAKER (Simms): The han. member for Windsor-Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Transportation and Communications, and it is with regard to the Buchans - - 1869

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 741 NM- 2 MR. FLIGHT: Burgee-Southwest Brook Road, T.he minister knows that six months prior to the election and all during the election the Premier, himself and ariyone else who pre.s~ed tc speak fez .:;.:.· ... ~c:rn=tent. on that road put a top priority on that particular road for three reasons, one,as it would enhance the total transportation systen : of the Province; two, for the economic benefit it would have for the immediate central area, Buchans included; and three, to expedite the Price acquisition of Linerboard. And it did get total priority.

And now since the budget there is no indication that there will be an extension to the present contract this year and the priority put on seems to no longer exist. I am wondering if the minister would indicate to the House whether or not there will be an extension to that particular contract this year with a view to pushing that road through? MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hen. Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR. BRETT: No, Mr. Speaker, any road work that is to be done in the Province this year has already been tendered and tenders let. MR. FLIGHT: A supplementary. MR.

SPEAKER: "A supplementary, the hon. member for Windsor-Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the minister - the word is that Price (Nfld.) will have the Linerboard into production, they are well ahead of the proposed

schedule for bringing the mill into production AN HON. MEMBER: Not linerboard. MR. FLIGHT: - linerboard into production- . 18?0

August 13, 1979 Tape 742 PK - 1 AN HON. MEMBER: Not linerboard, paper. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER [SIMMS) : Order, please! MR. FLIGHT: Mr. speaker, there has been all kinds of decorum in this House this last half hour. Now if the gentlemen on the other side wants to blow the decorum and blow what the Premi~r was just talking about they should leave me alone and let me ask my question. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. FLIGHT: short time. MR. ROBERTS: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. FLIGHT: Hear, hear! Order, please! Because we can blow the decorum in a very In other words, a short fuse. Oh, oh! Mr.

Speaker, I would ask the minister that in view of the fact that Abitibi Price will bring the pulp and paper operation in Stephenville into production 9robably earlier than they had indicated 1 by next December, willthis have any bearing on the government's desire or need actually to complete that road in view of the fact that the wood that will sustain the mill or fuel the mill will come from the area, the Lloyds Lake area, and in order to move that wood that particular road will have to be in place, and bearing in mind they only have until next December to do that?

What is the minister's views with regard to that situation? MR. SPEAKER: MR. BRETT: The hon. Minister of Transportation and Communications. Mr. Speaker, if it becomes necessary to build any roads to facilitate the opening of a paper mill or a mine or anything else in this Province, if it is necessary for the government to become involved then I can assure the hen. gentleman that we will. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: MR. ROBERTS: Hear, hear! The hon. member for the Strait of Belle Isle. Mr. Speaker, in the absence of the Minister of Health [Mr. House), who I understand is not well, may I address a 1871.

August 13, 1979 Tape 742 PK - 2 Mr. Roberts: question to the Premier, and it has to do with the somewhat vexing question of the priority to be assigned to hospitals. Would the Premier confirm that the Clarenv1lle Hospital,or the proposed hospital for Clarenville,will be the first hospital project to be undertaken by the government at such time, if ever, as the government proceeds to build these new hospitals? MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: The whole matter of capital construction, Mr.

Speaker, in that area as well as other areas,is under review by government right now1 and when we have made a final decision on that we will only be too happy to inform the hon. member. MR. ROBERTS: MR. SPEAKER: Belle Isle. MR. ROBERTS: A supplementary. A supplementary, the han. member for the Strait of Mr. Speaker, I thank the Premier. I want to be clear on the point. He is telling the House that no priority has been assigned to the particular project, or any particular project. I advertedto one, the hospital at Clarenville.

As Your Honour is aware I could have adverted to others, but I just want to be sure that I understand him correctly- no particular priority has been assigned to any project including in particular the Clarenville hospital? MR. SPEAKER: PREMIER PECKFORD: from the first. MR. ROBERTS: PREMIER PECKFORD: why I am on my feet. MR. ROBERTS: The han. the Premier. Mr. Speaker, the second question is different Well 1 perhaps that is why we studied French. That is why I am on my feet. That is We will see if the answer is different.

PREMIER PECKFORD: Well,hopefully if the question is different, hopefully the answer will be different as well. MR. ROBERTS: Give the answer. 1872

August 13, 1979 Tape 742 PK - 3 MR. SIMMONS: Decorum! Decorum! PREMIER PECKFORD: There are a number of areas in the Province over the last four or five years that 1873 '

August 13, 1979 Tape 743 EC - 1 PREMIER PEQ;:FORD: have been studied as it related to hospitals - Channel-Port aux Basques, Grand Fal.ls. Clarenvi lle: Naryst-o~n ~Pel P] ?t:enti:,. - ! t~i!"_l( ~~~e .:.:-c ~.:~ five areas of critical concern. There has been, I hear to my left, ~orne concern about Bonavista, as well. To my right, I wait for your instructicns.

But there are five or six areas tnat every hon. member and every person in ~lewfoundland now recognizes as being prime areas for capital construction, and I guess it is within those five or six areas that government will have to decide which ones will be charged first and which ones will be charged second. So to hon. members throwing out the word 'priority', I say that priority is attached to all those areas at the present moment. Whether, in fact, one will take hig;1er priority over another will be determined as we get ~~to our review. 1-IR. ROBERTS : Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. MR.

SPEAKER: (Simms) A final supplementary, the hon. tne member for the Strait of Belle Isle. HR. ROBERTS: Well, I hope it is a final supplementary - certainly, it will be the final one on this round. I just want to see if I can understand the plethora of the Premier's words, because I think there is the kernel of an answer in there, and I have tried twice. Let me try again to see if he will rise to the bait. PREMIER PECKFORD: 11R. ROBERI'S: Seek and ye shall find. 'Seek and ye shall find,' Sir. It also says, 'The meek shall inherit the earth,' by which time there will not be much left for them to inherit. Mr.

Speaker, what I ask of the Premier is, Would he tell us whether any - he named five or six p~·ojects, he could have added the Janeway, I think, as well, which is generally regarded as - MR. STAGG: Back to (inaudible) . MR. ROBERTS: - an expansion or an improvement that is going ahead, for the benefit of the gentleman from Stephenville (Mr. Stagg), in particular, who may have need of it. Mr. Speaker, the question I ask of the Premier is this - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh~ 1874

August 13, 1979 MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) MR. ROBERTS : Tape 743 EC- 2 Order, please! Mr. Speaker, the question I ask of the I understood him to say in his response to his second bite at the apple - Would he confirm for the House that no priority has been assigned to any one of the five or six projects to which he alluded? He spoke of five or six; he says they are a priority - I think they are all generally accepted as being the priorities. What I want to know is whether any priority has been assigned to one or more among those six as opposed to the others? MR. SPEAKER: PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. HR.

RIDEOUT: i·AR. SPEAKER: White Bay. MR. ROBERTS: 1 Charlie Brett 1 • SOME HON • MEMBERS : MR. RIDEOUT: The hen. the Premier. They are all very high priority, Mr. Speaker. The hon. the member for Baie Verte - He has made a liar out of Oh, oh! Do not upset him, I have a questio:> for him. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Transportation and Communications (Mr. Brett). In view of the fact that the reconstruction, upgrading and paving of the Northern Peninsula highway is now nearing completion - MR. ROBERTS: Not near enough. MR.

RIDEOUT: not near enough, but nearing completion- I think most of it is included in the latest DREE agreements - and in view of the fact that the other Major trunk road in the Northern Peninsula is the cross-country road 1875

August 13 ,1979 Tape No. 744 AH-1 MR.RIDEOUT: from Plum Point through to Roddickton and Englee 1 could the minister tell me whether or not there are any negotiations ongoing with the Government of Canada to include that major trunk road in the new DREE agreement that hopefully will be negotiated and signed sometime this coming year or next Winter? MR. SPE.AKER: (Simms) The han. Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR BRE'rT: Mr. Speaker, I cannot be specific.

I do not know exactly what trunk roads will be on the shopping list but 1 as I have indicated in this House before 1DREE funds are - they are not all expended but dangerously close to it and we will be hopefully negotiating a new DREE agreement this Fall. But I am sorry I cannot be specific as to what trunk roads will be on it.

Certainly all the major roads in the Province,or most of them at least, like the Northern Peninsula Road and the Loop Road and so on, most of these have been completed so we are going to have to get some of the- I do not know if you would call them lesser important but the type of road that the han. member is talking about certainly should be included in this new DREE agreement. MR. ROBERTS: Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: member f.~::: the Strait of Belle I3lo::. MR. ROBERt'S 1 A supplementary, Mr. A supplementary. The hen. Mr.

Speaker, a question to the minister growing out of the same subject; could the minister tell us whether consideration is being given to including on the shopping list the proposed new road between Main Brook, and call it the airstrip, the area in St. Anthony where another new road, as the minister knows, is being built, whether this road might be included in - to use his phrase which I think is a good one- the shopping list? ~.SPEAKER: The hen. minister. - 18?6

August 13,1979 Tape No. 744 AH-2 MR. BRETT: A ve.ry i111portant road, Mr. Speaker, no question whatsoever,and again I cannot be specific but certainly it is a road that p~obably should be included in any new agreement. MR. ROBERTS: MR. SPEAKER:(Simms) MR. ROBERTS : MR. SPEAKER: hen. member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. ROBERTS: A final supple.'llenta.ry. A final supplementa.ry. A final for me. A final supplementa.ry for the Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Can the minister tell us on the basis of his conversations with his soul mates in Ottawa, the present administration of Her Majesty's government there, whether DREE will look with favour upon the extension of the DREE agreement?

Because as the minister said, the money allocated under the present roads agreement is either spent or committed- I believe it runs out next March which means we would now be negotiating an ongoing extension; these things are extended all the time- whether the minister has any indication that we will be getting tbe same level of money from Ottawa that we have been getting in the last few years? We have been averaging, I think, about $30 million a year from Ottawa to which we put another three or four million. Could he tell us what the result of his communion with his soul mates up in Ottawa? MR.

SPEAKER: The hen. minister. MR. BRETT: Mr. Speaker, my communion with my soul mates has been brief up to this point. MR. ROBERTS: MR. BRETT: Has it been fruitful? I will be attending a meeting, hopefully I will anyway,on the 22nd of this month in Halifax with my counterparts from the Maritime Provinces and 1877

. A~~t_l_3_,_1979 ... . Tape No. 745 NM - 1 MR. BRETT: approximately a week after that we will be meeting with the federal minister and we will be discussing such things as the new DREE agreement and the new TCH agreement. MR. ROBERTS: MR. BRETT: MR. FLIGHT: MR. SPEAKER (Simms l : So as of now we just do not know. As of now I do not know, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A final supplementary, the hon. member for Windsor-Buchans and then the hon. member for LaPoile. MR. FLIGHT: Mr.

Speaker, I want to ask the minister if the road I referred to earlier, the Buchans-Burgeo-So~~hwest Brook Road, also a very important road as he knows, is that particular road on the shopping list so referred to by the minister? And if it is1 would the minister indicate to the House when indeed the Province's request of Ottawa for a new subsidiary agreement will be placed in Ottawa, when will the Province know and when will the funds under a new agreement be requested? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR. BRETT: No, Mr.

Speaker, I repeat, I do not know what is going to be on the shopping list and neither eo I know the date of it. Certainly this particular road is a major construction and it leads to resources,which is a criteria that DREE has used in the past, so I would assume again - again I am only assuming; you know,we have not started negotiating and I have not actually seen the shopping list and I would not suggest that it is finished - but it appears to me that this is the type of road because it does lead to resources that DREE would look on very favourably. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, my question is for the hon. Premier, Sir. Canadian Pacific Air are making a strong bid to come into Eastern Canada and EPA are also making a bid to cover the same route, direct flights from Atlantic Canada to Central Canada, and there . 18?8

Auqust 13, 1979 Tape No. 745 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: is savage competition going on between Newfoundland's airline and Canadian Pacific~ Would the hon. gentleman tell the House if his government, his administration, the Queen's Government, have taken any position at all in connection with this bid to have direct flights go into Central Canada in competition with Air Canada? Or does the government have a position at all or is the government just ignoring this controversy that is going on between the two airlines? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hen. Premier. PREMIER PECKFO<~: Mr.

Spe~~er, we are supportive of Eastern Provincial Airways and its ongoing bid to become competitive in the Eastern Canadian and Central Canadian markets and to try to become even more viable than it is at the present moment and we would look favourably upon any moves that could be done to enhance the viability of that airline and to see it get into direct flights.

As long 1 of course, as it is a Newfoundland based company 1 which it is right now, and which 1 as I understand it, continues to be, so that therefore there are a high number of Newfoundlanders working there, therefore we would be supportive of that application. MR. NEARY: A supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: A supplementary question. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The time for Oral Questions has expired . 1879

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 746 SD - l PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES MR. SPEAKER: MR. W, MARS!iALL: to the Legislature. It is The hon. President of the Council. Mr. Speaker, I have a report to give rather timely in view of the presence of the Chairm~n of Public Accounts Committe~ from our sister provinces. I move to give this report and also move pursuant to Standing Order 84 (d) , the following persons constitute the Standing Committee of this :C.on.

House to consider the matter of Public Accounts, in other words, the Public Accounts Committee; the bon. the members for Baie Verte - White Bay (Mr. T. Rideout) 1 Bonavista North (Mr. J. Morgan) 1 Burgee- Bay d'Espoir (Mr. R. Simmons) 1 Menihek (Mr. P. Walsh) 1 St. John's West (Mr. H. Barrett) 1 st. Jor~'s North (Mr. J. carter) and Stephenville (Mr. F. Stagg). I might state, Mr. Speaker, that this motion is made after a meeting with the hon. the member for the Strait of Belle Isle (Mr. E. Roberts).

I o~~lso wish to suggest at the time that the member first named, the hon. member for Bay Verte - White Bay~ be responsible for convening the first meeting and then the members will then proceed to elect a Chairman. The Chairman will be elected by the CCIIIIIIittee itself in accordance with the Standing Orders. I can inform the House, however, that it is the government policy, as far as the government is concerned, that the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee should be a member also of the apposition as it has been in the past. We are taking this position, Mr.

Speaker, in full confidence that the new approach ~~at has been so evident in this Assembly will continue and that the Public Accounts Committee will be as effective as the other committees have proven to be. MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. 1880

August 13, 1979 MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) MR. S. NEARY : Tape No. 746 SD - 2 The hen. member for LaPoile. The hen. gentleman, Sir, drew attention to the House that we had a couple of Chairmen of the Public Accounts Committee sitting in the gallery and he thought his brave announcement was most timely. What he did not say,for the benefit of the strangers who are sitting in the gallery, Sir, that it was the government who destroyed the Public Accounts Canmittee. MR. W. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER: of the Council. MR. W. MARSHALL: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. A point of order, the hon.

President We are in the ordinary routine proceedings and I think that the hen. member is out of order by making comments of this nature.As well as being out of order, they also show a consummate lack of taste on the hon. gentleman's part. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. HR. S • NEARY : To the motion, Mr. Speaker, it is a debatable motion, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: to - Order, please! I just need a moment Order, please!

The motion is a debatable motion but, however, in this particular case we have to determine whether or not it is actually a notice of motion in which case it would be put on the Order Paper or if it is to be debated nDW. My understanding is that after a report by Standing and Special Committee there can be comments for clarification purposes and so on. The hen. member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. E • ROBERTS : Mr. Speaker, to the point of order. I may have erred because my friend from La.Poile (lo!r. S.

Neary) asked me if this was a debatable motion and I said it was,which,of course,it is, assuming that this is the motion and not simply a report of the Committee. And I know that the Government House Leader (lo'.r. w. 1881.

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 746 SD - 3 MR. E. ROBERTS : Marshall) is anxious to have the motion disposed of and we, for our part, certainly said we would consent to that. My friend from LaPoile (Mr. s. Neary) wishes, I gather, to exercise his right to say a few words on it. He certainly has the right as a member to say a few words on it and I think it is up to the Government House Leader (Mr. w. Marshall) whether we do that today , to which, as I say, will consent, or whether he wishes i~ to stand as a notice of motion. For my part, I do not wish to speak on it.

I would simply wish to say that my understanding is that not only will t..'le member who is asked to be Chairman of the Committee be a member of the Opposition but will be the person so designated by the Leader of the Opposition and I think that is worth recording because it is an important parliamentary tradition, one which I know that gentlemen opposite are anxious to preserve as are we. But, Sir, we will consent to the matter going ahead without further notice in view of its urgency.

If my friend from LaPoile wishes to speak, Sir, he has the right to do so and I neither can oot nor would not attempt to muzzle him or to restrain him in any way. MR. W. MARSHALL : To a point of order. MR. SPEAKER: To a point of order, the hon. President of the Council. MR. W. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, nobody is trying to abridge or infringe the rights of any hen. member of this House to speak but all members are constrained by the rules of relevancy.

I suggest to Your Honour :md the point of order to Your Honour is the fact the hon. member was not being relevant as well as showing, as I say, a great modicum of bad taste, which I know Your Honour is not the judge of but it is self-evident by the hon. member's presentation. MR. SPEAKER: The one thing I wish to determine here is if it is 1882

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 747 DW- 1 MR. SPEAKER: (SIMMS) agreed that this a debatable motion or is it a notice of motion? Is it agreed that it is a motion? SOME HON. M~~BERS: Tt is egr~ed it is a ~otinn. MR. SPEAl<ER: It is a motion. The hon. member for Lapoile. MR. S. NEARY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The hon. gentleman strikes out again. Now, Sir, the hon. House Leader on this side said that he would not try to muzzle me. Well, I have to remind the - MR. E. ROBERTS: And could not. MR. S. NEARY: - and could not. I have to remind the hon. gentleman that he did not elect me, ~1r.

Speaker, and I will just let it go at that. But I want to say, Sir, for the benefit of strangers in the galleries that the bon. gentleman set out to impress that the government last year, right in the middle of the business of the Public Accounts Committee, decided that they would set out to knife the Chairman of the Committee. They said that they set out to unseat the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee even though the Chairman had been named by Your Honour in this House.

Now, whether it was proper for Your Honour to name the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee - that is not the procedure we followed today I noticed. The Government House Leader (Mr. Marshall) now has learnt a few tricks over the last several months, he has learnt by his mistakes and he is now leaving it up to the committee to elect their own chairman. But the last time, a year and a half ago or two years ago when this House appointed a Public Accounts Committee, the Speaker named the Chairman and, therefore, it could only be assumed, Mr.

Speaker, that only the Speaker could unname the Chairman, that the Chairman was there at the' pleasure of the Speaker and t~= pleasure of this House. And hon. gentleman can go back to Hansard :..n case they doubt what I am saying and they will find that the Speaker, when he read out the list of names of the Public Accounts Committee, read out the name of the Chairman, he named the Chairman of the Committee. 1883

August l3, 1979 Tape No. 747 DW- 2 l1R. S. NEARY: But the government was not satisfied with the excellent job that my hon. friend was doing, they were not satisfied, too many scandals were being uncovered. The Public Works scandal - MR. J. MORGAN: Dream on. MR. S. NEARY: - which led to the Mahoney Commission of Inquiry which is still meeting, which still has not submitted a report to the government, the Mahoney Commission of Inquiry on the by-passing of the Public Tendering Act by ministers, that scandal was brought about as a result of the good job done by my hon. colleague.

And if my hon. friend will recall, it was he and I that joined in the old one/two in this House that brought about that Commission of Inquiry. And after that the government decided that they were going to sweep everything under the rug, that they were not going to deal with the Auditor General's report and the severe criticisms that he had made of government. MR. J. MORGAN: MR. R. SIMMONS: MR. SPEAKER: (SIMMS) MR. S. NEARY: Tell your boss about (inaudible). The bionic mouth .. Order, please! And, Mr. Speaker, as a consequence of the government's action for the last several months - how long eight or nine months?

MR. R. SIMMONS: A year and a half since it has been effective. :-m. S. NEARY: A year and a half my hon. colleague reminds me since the Public Accounts Committee met with a full membership meeting, representatives of this side of the House and the government side of the House, to conduct a full-fledged Public Accounts Committee meeting. Over a year and a half! A year and a half has gone by, and since then, Mr. Speaker, the government are trying to portray the image, in this Province, of being born again.

They are now, Sir, admitting that the Opposition was right, that we, according to tradition, would name the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee. They are now admitting that after a year and a half and they are hoping, I would assume that they are hoping, that my 1884

August B, 1979 Tape No. 74.7 DW - 3 MR . S. NEARY: hen . frienc will not be n~de Cltairman of the Public Accoun ·ts Committee .although • I never hen. friend ".:luld .·indeed be Chairman, Well. I hope he is. MR. R . SIMJ.!ONS: I '"'Ould be very surprised. MR. S. NEARY: That the~e was not an agreement or there was? MR. 'R. SIMMCNS ; I would be very surprised if there was an agreement. MR. S. NEARY: If there was an aqreement- Well, l'lr. Speaker , my hen. friend says he would be very s·u~:prised if there was agreement that he would be Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee.

Well, I would be very surprised if tilere was not an agreement but i=aterial of whetber there is or whether there is not)! am hoping that my hon. fr~end will be Chairman of tha t conunittee again and pick up where he left off. There was so much ur.fi.::~ished business, .•.r. Speaker, that has to ~e deal with, The Public works scandal is not ove-r a."l.d done wit h yet, that still has to be deal.t wi t.'l. None of til is mismanagement, none of this corruption, none of the improper procedures that were used by gove rn.111<m t 1885

1\.uaust 13, 1979 Tape No. 748 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: government in the last half a dozen years, six or ~even years, is going to be swept under the rug, and the hon. gentleman who now occupies the Premier's seat should realize that, that none of these examples of corruption that we have been talking about in this House for the past several years are going to be swept under the rug, none of them, including the Labrador Linerboard mill scandal which is the biggest scandal,in my opinion,in Canadian history. My hon. friend, if he is elected chairman, and the members from this side of the House, Mr.

Speaker, ~rill have a full-time job, they will have their hands full in dealing with all the matters that should have been dealt with in the last year and a half, up to the time that the government got contrary and sulked and decided they were going to muzzle the Public Accounts Committee and in an arbitrary, dictatorial way set out to destroy the Public Accounts Committee, by zeroing in on the Chairman of that Committee, the member for Burgee-Bay d'Espoir (Mr. Simmons) who was doing such an excellent job. So, Mr.

Speaker, I am glad that the government has seen fit now to - after a year and a half - finally come around to agreeing with the Opposition and they are now going to reinstate the Public Accounts Committee,as they should and in keeping with procedures and practices in other jurisdictions, that the chairman will be a member of the Opposition. Mr.

Speaker, when the Public Accounts Committee is reactivated, apart from the things that are raised by the Auditor General in his annual report, I am hoping that the Public Accounts Committee will deal with some other matters, some other matters that have been raised recently in this hon. House. Sir, for inst~~ce, the mismanagement of the Marystown Shipyard where almost $14 million has been used to subsidize the yard, $14 million taxpayers' dollars had to be put into the Marystown Shipyard to keep it afloat. Now, Mr.

Speaker, is this the first time, is this the first time in this House that hon. members have heard about mismanagement at the 1886

Auqust 13, l'l79 Tape No. 748 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: Marystown Shipyard? It may be the first time since June 18th., now that we have some new members in this House 1 it may be the first time that the new members heard about the mismanagement at the Marystown Shipyard_. it may be the first time they heard it but it is certainly not the first time that anybody who sat in this House since 1975 heard about the mismanagement of the Marystown Shipyard. And I have here in front of me, Mr. Speaker, t0 prove what I am saying, a newspaper clipping dated December 13th., 1975 from the St.

John's Evening Telegram with a headline that states, "Neary charges mismanagement at the Shipyard." And in that story, Mr. Speaker, if you care to read it, you will find that Mr.

Millan, a former manager of that shipyard wrote a letter- he got tossed out, he got fired, he was frozen out and he wrote a letter to the minister responsible for that Crown corporation and in the letter he stated that the estimators at Marystown shipyard were deliberately underestimating so that they could get contracts knowing full well that any deficit for that yard would be picked up by the Public Treasury. 1975, Sir, four years ago that startling revelation was made in this han.

House and if my han. friends from the news media would just go to their morgues and check their newspapers and their news items and their news reports they will find out that this great revelation, this great scandal was made in 1975 in this han. House 1 in a letter that was slipped to me from my usual reliable sources, that I read out in this han. House and it com?letely fell on deaf ears. Now, Mr. Speaker, now we have this scandalous 188?

August 13, 1979 Tape 749 PK - 1 Mr. Neary; si.tuation at Marystown where almost $14 million of taxpayers' money had to be usea to pay for the mismanagement in that yard, in the bidding on the Norwegian tugs. Well,I say the Public Accounts Committee should deal with it, Sir, because I do not expect to get what I think that should happen in this Province and in this House 1 and that is a royal commission to look into the affairs of that shipyard. That is really what should happen.

There should be a royal commission of enquiry under The Public Enquiries Act to look into the activities and the managing of that shipyard for the last four or five years. But I do not expect to get that, Sir, but there should be nothing short of that. In any other jurisdiction, in any other democratic country, in any other province that scandal alone is enough to topple a government, $14 million. topple a government. That is enough to You know, sometimes I wonder about Newfoundlanders, Sir.

I wonder about them sometimes, It is awfully discouraging for us who act as watchdogs over the Public Treasury, to hear the reaction from people when they say, Oh well, you know, that was a mistake. We heard the minister the other day, the President of the CouncilJ (Mr.

Marshall) get up in this House and tell us that $110 million that was spent on setting off two explosions on either side of the Strait of Belle Isle to launch the great hydro development of the Lower Churchill, that $110 million that we may as well have taken and flung out the window of Confederation Building, the minister got up and told us that was a mistake. A mistake~ we made a mistake. And just listen to the logic of it.

He says, we are going to recoup,now,our $100 million,Because the Government of Canada 1 in setting up this Crown corporation to study the development of the Lower Churchill 1 are going to put $100 million into the kitty, so thereforeJwe are going to recoup the $100 million. We are going to recoup it~ We have spent it, we threw it away, we may as well have 1888

August 13, 1979 Tape 749 PK - 2 Mr. Neary flushed it down the toilet down in the Minister of Finance' ·s (.Dr. Collins>. office, in his little private privy that he has do~n there ncbod¥ else is allowed tc use~ flushed the $100 million down his toilet. But now Ottawa is going to give us back $100 million, so the logic of it is that we are just going to break even. we are going to break even. we are going to recoup our losses. Now,what do my hon. friends, the Chairmen of the Public Accounts Committee from the other provinces think of that kind of logic?

We just set off two explosions 1 one on either side of the Strait of Belle Isley we have not even been able to get an accounting for the money that was spent; they have not told not us whether they called public tenders, whether contracts were awarded to the lowest bidder ; how the money was spent~ who got it, $110 million 1 and. the minister got up in the House the other day and said, "Well,do not worry about it, because Ottawa now is going to us $100 million." and fling it away. so,therefore~we are allowed to take $110 million We do not know hut it is a big booze party they had. Now,that is really logical.

In any other province that scandal alone would be enough to defeat a government. Now,we have got the Marystown Shipyard on top of it, where this government-and that gentleman was sitting in his seat in this House when they were told back in 1975 that there was mismanagement at the Marystown Shipyard. AN HON. MEMBER: And it was completely ignored. MR. NEARY: And it was completely ignored. As a matter of fact, the Minister of Industrial Development at that tirne,who has now joined the former Premier in an investment company called Torngat Investment -and he is getting awfully discouraged about it, I understand.

It will not be long now before we will hear about the former Minister of Finance for this Province getting his big job 1889

AU<JUS"t 13, 1979 Tape 749 PK - 3 Mr. Neary: up in Ottawa, $40,000 or SSO,OOO a year, he is so disillusioned and discouraged with the former Premier of this Province - that minister, the Minis-cer of Industrial Development called me anything bu-c a gentleman. As a matter of fact, he said "I was a traitor to Newfoundland for raising this matter of the ~~scown Shipyard. ! was the traicor co Newfoundland. I was anything but a gentleman." And Mr. Bully Boy Crosbie:who is now out to sink the Government of Canada, well ; you should have heard him bellyaching about what I was saying about the Marystown Shipyard.

I was trying to save the Shipyard and they were condoning mismanagement of the ·~rse sort, - bidding low, underestimating to get the concracts, coming in low,knowing full well thac they could avail 1890

August 13,1979 Tape No. 750 AH-1 MR. NEARY: of the generosity of the Public Treasury. And go back and check Hansard and see what I was called by these two gentlemen. I suppose we could call them gentlemen . Now we have a $14 million deficit and charges of mismanasement, charges of inefficiency and the government say we are just going to do a little internal investigation, a little internal investigation. But as I said, I claim that nothing short of a Royal Commission of Enquiry, nothing short of it, should be held into the operation of that shipyard.

Failing that I have to count, I have to rely on my hon. friend the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee to raise this matter. ~~d if ~~e hon. gentleman does net raise it, and I am sure he will, then I will be in there at the meetings hammering on the table trying to get some of these matters dealt with, Mr. Speaker. It is time to get these things out in the open and as I said before in this House, Sir, I commend the hen.

Premier, the born-again Premier who happened to be in the government ; by the way, who was a senior minister in the government that took all these decisions, that took the decision on Labrador Linerboard, that took the decision on the Marystown shipyard, that took the decision on these two little fire crackers they set off on either side of the Strait of Belle Isle.

The hen. gentleman was a senior mir.ister in that government but the hon. gentleman has successfully, somehow or other,managed to persuade some people on this side of the House that he had nothing to do with all of that, that he is born again, he is completely clean, he is going to be a man of integrity and a man of honesty and he is going to level with the people and he is going to tell us the truth in this House. Well,I commend the hen. gentleman for that but I say to the hen. gentleman ~~at he cannot pick and choose the items that he is going to come clean on. He cannot come clean on Mr.

Nutbeem's paltry few.thousand dollars he got out off the Public Treasury, he cannot come clean on Bob eole's contract and he cannot come clean on the salmon rivers in Labrador without coming clean on Labrador Linerboard and on the mismanagement at the Marystown shipyard and the $110 million 1891

August 13,1979 Tape No. 750 AH-2 MR. N~: that was wasted on these two explosions that were supposed to be the commencement of a tunnel underneath the Strait of Belle Isle. The hon. gentlem~ will not get away with it. He will get away with it for a certain period of time. The people right now think the hon. gentleman is great. He is riding high and they think he is wonderful. I think it myself. There is a breath of fresh air in this House for the first time since I have been here in seventeen years.

We have been getting some pretty straight answers from the hon. gentleman but hon. members will recall that we are also not getting any answers on some of the matters that I have been raising. Some of the matters that I have been raising have to do with Labrador Linerboard. I have about fifteen questions on the Order Paper connected with Labrador Linerboard and the Minister of Finance (Dr.Collins) has not seen fit yet to give me any information. For instance, Mr.

Speaker, I wanted to know and I will find out via the Public Accounts Committee in due course, I want to know why a marketing contract - and I have _ asked this question ten times before and I am going ~ ask it again, why the marketing contract for Labrador Linerboard was taken away from the world renowned firm of Alfred Heinzel in Europe, why the contract was taken away from him? He was paid $150, 000 of taxpayer money and then the contract given a few days later to a company down in Massachusetts that did not P.ven exist a few days before that. It did not even exist. Why?

The hon. gentleman was a member of the administrationp w~ does the hon. gentleman not get up and tell the House why that was done, why that exclusive marketing contract was given to a baby company down in Boston-Massachusetts that had no expertise, no 1892

August 13, 1979 Tape 751 EC - l MR. NEARY: experience in marketing? lfuy was it done? l~ell, I have my own ideas of why it was done. And if the hon. the Premier, who is now occupying cile seat over there, and if l-!r. ::it:J.cky-w1 cky said, 'Well, you know, they are talking about scandals but there is no new evidence - they talk about it,' Well, as I said before, Hr. Speaker, I am not a law enforcement officer, and I am working on it as hard as I can. If we had, Sir, any in-depth reporting, if we had any investigative reporting in this Province, I would not have to do what I am doing. If Hr.

Wick Collins, instead of taking things for granted, would just do a little investigative reporting in this Province, he might get the surprise of his life. For instance, I am working on s01r.ething now that may startle hen. gentlemen in due course, if I can get the information. It is always very difficult to get it. This company called Egret down in Bermuda that hen. gentlemen heard me talk about, this offshore company, this dummy company set up down in Bermuda to skim off money t..'lat should have gone into t..'l.e Labrador Linerboard mill.- $55 a ton for every ton of linerboard. AN HON.

MEMBER: (Inaudible) • MR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman thinks it is funny! Very funny, indeed! I thought first of all, Mr. Speaker, it was funny, I thought it was only $30 million, but I am beginning to realize now it is closer to $50 million to $60 million that was skimmed off, which makes it probably the biggest scandal in tile history of Canada. And, Mr. Speaker, I want to say now that I do not have the hard evidence, the documentation in front of me - I ~working on it, I have it orally, that some of t..'lat money in Bermuda - Egret - is now finding its way into Newfoundland. And if hen. gentlemen - Ao.'i!

HON • MEMBER: (Inaudible) more about it? MR. NEARY: Yes, I will tell the hen. gentleman more in due course, as soon as I get the hard, cold facts in front of me. I have it orally, but I do not believe in accepting heresay information, I want it in black and white. MR. J. CARTER: Then do not talk about it until you have it. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I can talk about it. 1893

August 13, 1979 Tape 751 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: Not talk about it? I happen to be an elected representative of the people and I am talking about one of tne greatest scandals in Canadian history involving $50 million.to $60 million of taxpayers' money, plus the mismanagement - MR. J. CARTER: All the innuendoes. MR. NEARY: No innuendoes, Sir. Some of that money is now finding its way in pounds, shillings and pence, and the han. gentleman who is making the deposits here in Newfoundland will know what I am talking about. He has already backed away from E.P.A., he has welched on that deal. MR. J. CARTER: MR.

NEARY: I am good and ready to name names • MR. J. CARTER: MR. NEARY: Name names. Yes, Mr. Speaker, I will name names when (Inaudible). What I am saying to the hon. the Premier is that he cannot just pick and choose the items that he wants to come clean on. He cannot just pick the little harmless ones, he has also to pick the big scandals ar.d he has to come to grips with this $110 million that was spent on the Strait of Belle Isle tunnel, development of the Lower Churchill. He has to give the House an accounting.

And he has to give the House an accounting for the $14 million that we are going to be forced to pay the i~arystown Shipyards. And he has to give the House an accounting on the running of the Labrador Linerboard mill from the time the government nationalized it until the time they closed it down. Mr.

Speaker, as I say, there has been no explanation in this House of why the marketing contract for Labrador Linerboard was cancelled at the cost of $150,000 - the government had to buy its way out of it - and then the contract given to a firm down in Massachusetts. ay hon. friends who are now sitting outside the rail might be interested in knowing that it was impossible for the government, the Auditor General or anybody in this House to have access to the records of International Forest Products because it was incorporated 1894

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 752 ·NM - l MR. NEARY: under the laws of Massachusetts. There is only one reason why that would be done and the only reason it would be done is so they could carry on their skulduggery South of the border. That is why it was done. Given an exclusive contract to market Labrador Linerboard. We have no idea how much they got for the Linerboard, no idea in this world. We are just like babes. We have no idea how much International Forest collected for Labrador Linerboard. We know what they gave Labrador Linerboard. We know they paid them $320 a ton and $270 a ton in Europe. MR. MORGAN: Mr.

Speaker, on a point of order. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): A point of order, the hon. Minister of Lands and Forests. MR. MORGAN: The rules of this House clearly point out in debate that we have to address Your Honour, the Speaker. The speaker now in debate is addressing people in the gallery which is completely out of order. MR. SPEAKER: To the point of order, that rule is clear enough for everybody, I guess, to understand. I am sorry I was not paying that much attention. The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Why, is there something wrong with the hon. gentleman? MR. ROBERTS: Yes.

There is something wrong with the hon. member for Bonavista South (Mr. Morgan). MR. NEARY: We have no idea, Mr. Speaker, what they received for the Labrador Linerboard. I have one example and Mr. Collins should come down to my office and I will give him the Stirling International example, black and white, a little internal memo from the controller of that company to a man by the name of David in that company saying, "Pay $55 a ton to Butterfield Eank in Bermuda." A secret commission, which is a crime agains the Criminal Code of Canada and then that - no, what would you call it? - that literary 1895

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 752 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: genius says, "No evidence of skulduggery". MR. ROBERTS: Nish Collins, you are speaking of. MR. NEARY: ------ No, that literary genius. No evidence of skulduggery. He either cannot read or he is completely ignorant of what has been going on in this House and in this Province. MR. ROBERTS: Wick Collins? MR. NEARY: Yes. I will compliment him and call him a literary genius. Why does he not try to find out - maybe he can find out - I cannot find out as a member of the House.

Here are a few questions for him to ask - Was a cash payment made to Heinzel on the occasion of the cancellation of his contract or contracts to ~arket Labrador Linerboard? What was the amount of such payment? Who was paid the cheque and from what fund was the amount paid? You know, I may be stunned, Sir, but Mr. Collins says, "Oh, there is nothing wrong." Can he get me the answer to that? Can he get me the answer to that question? I cannot get it.

Can he also get me the answer to this question; can he give the date on which the sales contract made by the original owners of the Labrador Linerboard paper mill at Stephenville and Ernest Heinzel was made? Can he find that out for me? And the date on which said contracts were cancelled? MR. YOUNG: Sane old stuff. MR. NEARY: Yes, the same old stuff. I do not have the answers yet and I am going to keep repeating it over and over again until I get the answers. That is my job and if the han . gentleman does not like it he can go outside and sip coffee or he can go back to Harbour Grace and look after his slabs. MR.

MORGAN: (Inaudible) your own district. MR. NEARY: But I intend to get the answers. And here is a question - perhaps the han. gentleman knows the answer to this one. Give the date on which the decision was made to sell the tree harvesting machines that the original owners had for use in Labrador. Give the date . How many such machines were sold and at what price or prices? How many of the tree harvesting machines were purchased thereafter and from whom and at 1896

August 13 , 1979 Tape No. 752 NM - 3 whac price? A fair ques~on is it not, Mr. 5!leaker? Is chat a fair question Your Konour? Your l:'..onour,. I am sure,would nod his head in approval if he c.:>uld• and say yes, but we bave noc been able to get an answer. We have not been able to get an answer. Here is anoth er question ; Perhaps the :~ister of Public Works who seems to be pretty busy passing out free passes down at Atlantic Place these days and looking after their political buddies,renting office s2ace 1897 •· •.

August 13, 1979 Tape 753 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: down in Atlantic Place and various other parts of the city, 1:>erhaps the han. gentleman has the answer to this question. MR. YOUNG: l1R. NEARY: (Inaudible). l'.r. Speaker, just listen to this. Is this an obvious question for a member of the House to ask? If it is not, Sir, if I am out of order, if it is not parliamentary, Your Honour, I will withdraw it, but I will ask the question and then Your Honour can advise me if I am in order. And here is the question.

In respect of the contracts for moving pulpwood from Labrador to Stephenville and finished products from Stephenville to ~urope, give the names of the ships in both sets of contracts, namely, the contracts that were cancelled and those that were made to replace them·. Now, is that a hard question, i1r. Speaker? Is it out of order? What I am asking here, Sir, results from action taken by old bully boy Crosbie. Mr.

Crosbie when he took over ~•e Labrador Linerboard, cancelled the shipping contract to bring the wood from Labrador to Stephenville, cancelled it and said, 'We are having no~ling to do with it.' And then within a matter of a couple of weeks, he renegotiated a contract with the same company, the same ships, for more Il'Oney, and I am asking the government to give us an explanation. And the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Young) who is there making snide remarks, perhaps he has the answers. MR. YOUNG: I do not. You do all the (inaudible) • MR. NEARY: Oh, that is very funny, Mr. Speaker!

Can the hon. gentleman get me ~~e answer to that question? If he cannot, maybe l1r. Wick Collins will get it for me. Mr. Speaker, let me come to this question. Here is another question. Let us see if it is a hard question. Would you have to be a university graduate, Sir, to answer this question? Listen to the question.

I ask my hon. friends,who are fair-minded people sitting outside the rail, if they were sitting on the jury and I were asking this question and the government refused to answer it and they were being evasive and refused to give ~~e House the information, what would hon. gentlemen say, 'Guilty' or 'Not guilty'? 1898

August 13, 1979 Tape 753 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: Well, here is the question, Mr. Speaker. I am asking the government to table a contract, an agreement between LcWratioJ: Lint::rboard Limited, which was a CrowT~ company, ~i. cl a. .::~r.~~~:r· =~1:::.;:! Schirfeld and Company in Hamburg, Germany, to market Labrador Linerboard. Now, in case the han. the :·lin is ter of Public Works (Mr. Young) does not understw<d the question, let me repeat it. And I will summarize it this time.

What I am doing, I am asking the government - the Minister of Finance or the Premier - to give me a copy of the agreement that was made between Labrador Linerboard, a Crown company, and a company called Schirfeld in Hamburg, Germany, to market Labrador linerboard. Is that a fair question or am I being ridiculous, Sir? Maybe I am not entitled to the information. It is only public money, it is only taxpayers' money, and I am asking a question. Well, I cannot get the answer. Maybe Wick Collins can get it for me. But I will tell the han. House about this company in Hamburg, Germany.

I told the House before and obviously, the Premier did not pay any attention to it. He wants to clear up all this mess about the Action Group and Bob Cole and he wants to clear up all this mess about the Premier's brother-in-law, and he wants to straighten out the salmon rivers and he wants to get Mount Scio House all straightened out, but he does not want to deal with the scandals involved in Labrador Linerboard. Well, Mr.

Speaker, for the benefit of members of the House who were not in their seats when I asked this question about Schirfeld, Sir, here is the situation; The government came into th.is House time after time, day in and day out, year in and year out, and told us there was no market for Labrador linerboard. And wilile they were telling us that, Mr. Speaker, the minister responsible was over in Europe with Mr. Robert Kraft from Massachusetts making a deal with a company called Schirfeldto sell the full production of Labrador Linerboard the full production of linerboard sold at that mill. And they did sell some.

And then ~~e government, apparently, went in violation of ~~eir agreement. And Schirfelci have in their account in Hamburg, Germany, almost $3 million of public funds - $3 million belonging to the taxpayers of this Province - 1899

August 13, 1979 Tape 754 PK - 1 Mr. Neary: in a bank account in Hamburg, Germany. I wonder if Wick is listening to this, if he thinks this is all straight and above:C"a:!ed or is it a.ll fool i"h nonsense? Three and one half million in a bank account in Hamburg, Germany belong to Labrador Linerboard Company Limited. Now Schirfeld and the Newfoundland Government got in dispute over the agreement. But in the agreement, Mr. Speaker, there is a clause, if a dispute arises between the two parties then it has to go to binding aroitration.

Do the hon. gentlemen think that this crowd over here have put the matter to binding arbitration? No, Sir, indeed they have not. They have completely ignored Schirfeld. In other words,what they are saying is, Keep our $3 million or whatever it is, you keep it, keep it, we do not want it. We do not want to hear tell of you any more, keep the money, and the matter has never been resolved. And how do I know that, Sir? WelL, I have written Messrs. Schirfeld. I have written them a number of times. And the last time I wrote them I sent them a copy of a letter written to Mr. Frank Ryan, Q,c •• Mr.

Frank Ryan is the liquidator acting on behalf of the government, and is also Chairman of the Abitibi Price Board of Directors. And as I said the other day, in my opinion, in a conflict of interest situation. And I got a letter back, Mr. Speaker, on July 31 from Messrs. Schirfeld. And what they are saying to me, and I will ta:Cle the letter, I :Detter read the one I wrote them first, I said, Messrs.

Schirfeld and Companv, 31 Monckebergstrosse, or something Hamburg, Germany, Gentleman, thank you for your prompt reply to my telex of June 28, 1979 concerning a contracuual agreement with Labrador Linerboard Limited and your outstanding account with that company. May I point out to you that Labrador Linerboard no longer exists as the company incorporated under the Laws of Newfoundland and Laorador. See enclosed special resolution. And when it was operating it was a Crown company and not a private company. 19DO

August l3, 1979 Tape 754 PK - 2 Mr. Neary: As a preliminary to my bringing the matter of your relationship with Labrador Linerboard before the Legislature of this Province, and in order to allow you to present your side of the history to date of a contractual agreement with the company and any unfinished business that is still outstanding,your voluntary assistance in this matter would be deeply appreciated." And what I am doing, Sir, I am asking this company to give me information that I cannot get in this House. the reply I got back, Mr. Speaker - And here is AN HON. MEMBE:R: MR. NEARY: sweetheart. (_Inaudible).

Yes, I will table it. Here you go "July 31 1 G. Schirfeld and Company, Hamburg, Mr. Stephen A. Neary, MHA, LaPoile District, House of Assembly;' and it is a letter written to Mr. Ryan, who remember I desribed a few moments ago as the liquidator who is acting on behalf of the Newfoundland Government to wind up the affairs of Labrador Linerboard. It said, "Dear Mr. Ryan, Labrador Linerboard Limited, By means of the letter from Mr. Stephen A.

Neary, dated July 10, copy enclosed together with attachments of his letter 1 are informed that you have been appointed liquidator to wind up the company of Labrador Linerboard Limited. As you will note from Mr. Neary's letter he is requesting us for some information regarding our contractual agreement with Labrador Linerboard Limited. In order to avoid any inadequate action from our side, we would ask your consent for our replying to Mr. Neary's letter. Yours very truly, G. Schirfeld and Company". They are asking the man who has been appointed 1 to liquidate the affairs of Labrador Linerboard, Mr.

Frank Ryan, Q.C., who is a fine and honourable lawyer in this Province, they are asking him, Schirfeld are, if they can let me have the information that I cannot get in this hon. House. I had to go outside of the - MR. MORGAN: Table the letter.

August 13 1 1979 MR . NEARY: MR. NEARY: Tape 754 Yes , t he letter wi ll be tab led . I r.ad. t o go outside t he Bous e . Canno t qet il f.ron< 1'ir . t.oylet That is very funny. Very funny. Very funny indeed. Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman might be surprised what I can get from that gentleman's . name he just mentioned, He ,ndght be surpised. MR. J. CARTER: Why do you not table Mr. Ooyle (inaudible) . MR. NEARY: I would like to table, Sir, Mr. A .• a.

Walsh who happens to be the hon. gentleman' s buddy, a shareholder in Metro Engineering that is up be£ore the courts of this Land, sitting there as President of the council with a smirk on his face and the company that he is a shareholder in, according to the last share list down in the Registry, hauled before court, going into liquidation, into bankruptcy in this Province. MR. J. CARTER: That is all lies. MR. NEARY: Yes, that is kind of lies all right. Well 1 ~ just made the statement, I did not hear the hon. gentleman deny it. His buddy befo~e the courts - MR. MARSHALL: The hen. gentleman only 1902

August 13, 1979 MR. S. NEARY: MR. W. ~IARSHAL L : I'.R. SPEAKER: House Leader . MR. W. MARSHALL : Tape No . 755 DW ~-1 for qouqinq the public treasurv. A point of order, 11r. Speaker. A point 6f order, the hon. Government So that I can inform the hen. member, the hon. gentleman only denies statements emanating from people who he feels it worthwhile denying. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. S. NEARY: That is a brilliant contribution to the debate. I am sure Your Honour has to rule on it, Sir. A brilliant contribution! So, Mr. Speaker, there are a number of other matters. SOME HON • MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. S.

NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I started to say a few moments ago, Sir, that I fail to understand sometimes and I must say it is awfully discouraging 1why people in public life in this Province treat so lightly lootigg the Public Treasury. Why they treat it so lightly, Why they treat so lightly the $14 million that has to be put in of their money, of taxpayers' money that has to be put into Marystown shipyard ·. ~lhy that is treated so lightly and why Newfoundlanders merely shrug their shoulders and say, 'Oh, well,what else would you expect from that crowd up there in Confederation Building<' That is the way she goes!

Let her go! Whoever got it, the more power to them! You know, Mr. Speaker, that is awfully, awfully discouraging. I had a delegation come to see me this morning from the Underwriters Association - AN HON. MEMBER: Undertakers? MR. S. NEARY: -here in Ne.,.•foundland. And I was rather intrigued with their arguments. They had some pretty powerful arguments,by the way,of why this premium tax on insurance should not go ahead. A.>J HON. MEMBER: It is not relevant. 1903

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 755 DW - 2 MR. S • NEARY: lvell, it is relevant, it is a tax on the consumer. M-'=t .. STl' .. GG: It is irrelevant. MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I am making it relevant if the hon. gentleman would iust keep auiet.

But when we finished our discussion this morning I said to these half a dozen very fine, intelligent Newfoundlanders, some · of them university graduates, I said to them and I could not help but say it, 'Look, what you are talking about here may be big in your eyes,and it may be big in the eyes of the consumer, the hard-pressed consumer in this Province,and it no doubt is big for the taxpayer, and you. are quite right and quite justified in fighting it and I hope you win ~our battle - and I believe they will win, I believe they will win in the long run despite the answer the Minister of Finance (Dr.

Collins) gave me today - but I said to these very decent, fine Newfoundlanders, I said, 'Look, how can you get yourselves so psyched up and worked up over a half million dollars,because that is what you are talking about 7 when here you have down here at Marystown a mismanagement of huge proportions involving Sl4 million of your money, your tax money and that is why you are paying the highest taxes in Canada~ How come you do not get upset over that?' I did not get an answer. I could see the look of shock come over their faces. They had not thought of it!

And it is not my fault, Sir, and it is not the fault of the members of this House, it is the fault of the media that this information is not funnelled out to the people of this Province. Why in any other provinces - as I said twenty minutes ago, you would have riots ire the streets if you had the likes of the mismanagement in other provinces ~or in states down in the United States that went on in Harystown. And what would happen about Labrador Linerboard? That one scandal alone is enough to topple a government in any de~cratic country in the world.

And instead of getting praise in this House for raising these matters, you get rapped on the knuCkles. 1904

August 13, 1979 Tape No . 755 IlW - 3 1-'.R. S • NEJ'.RY : They are saying, 'Oh , there is no evidence. • "!hat: kind of evidence do they want? :.m. J. CARTER: They want hard evidence. MR. S. SV.RY: They want hard evidence~ 1\ell, they had it, it was put on the table of the House· And the RC.'ll' were in San Francisco two weeks ago consulting with the man who sold that shipment of linerboard and that . is the f irst time: sinc e I raised it>in seven months that they sent a little piddling corporal dcwn to San Francisco. They did not even think it .... ·orth their while to send an inspector.

MR. ~tA.ltSHALL : It is heresay. HR . S • N'EARY : It is not heresay, Sir, ! happen to know! I happen to know, ~r. Speaker, the skuldug~ery and the corruption involved with Labrador Linerboazd. I happen to know it 1 and the mismanag ement! They sent a corporal to San Francisco - they did Newfoundla.'ld a favour- by himself to interview t~e !!'.an who sold that shipment of lir.erboard who knew - !-IR. I".ARSHALL: J-!R. S • NEARY : Have any charges been laid? Have ar.y charges been laid? !'.r . Speaker, I told the hon. House Leader a few moments ago about the reason . 1905

August 13,1979 Tape No.756 AH-1 MR. NEARY: why I thought this International Forest Products was set up down in Boston under the company laws of Boston,Massachusetts. It was set up so that the skulduggery could take place in the United States and it was hard to get at it. You could not audit the books. You could not inspect the records of the company. That is why it was done. And I can tell hen. gentlemen right now that some of the Egret money is finding its way back into Newfoundland right now. It is too bad, Mr.

Speaker, the CBC who have spent so much money on Here and Now programmes, on public affairs programmes, going over taking pictu~es of paintings in the Arts and Culture Center and all the foolishness they get off with, that they do not take some of the tax money that they are spending on this foolish nonsense and do a little investigative reporting and go with their camera team and stick it in fron~ of the faces of some of these people who are involved, Mr. Robert Kraft, the lawyer down in New York­ What is his name? MR. MORGAN: And Johnnie Doyle in Panama. MR. NEARY: Yes,and go down and see him too.

And the hen. gentleman should read the evidence that I put on the table of this House. PREMIER PECKFORD: .Jol.R. NEARY: I read it. Yes, the hen. read it but the hen. gentleman wants to choose to iqnore it. M HON. MEMBER: No boy, you are mistaken MR. NEARY: gentleman a dollar he did not read it. SOME HON. GENTLEMAN: MR. NEARY: I am willing to bet the hon. Oh, oh! Mr. Speaker, you know, these a~ all the diversionary tactics, these are all the snide remarks, this is what has led to the lowering of the decorum cf this House. They laugh it off.

A $60 million scandal has to be laughed off, $14 million at Marystown, $110 million on the Strait of Belle Isle and Crosbie's representative in the House thinks it is a great big joke. It is 1906

August 13,1979 MR. NEARY: a joke for Mr. Crosbie. Tape No. 756 AH-2 some joke alright. It ·may be Mr. Speaker, I feel sorry for non. gen~lemen on that s~de of the House. I feel sorry for them the way they have been deluded. It is no doubt about it, Moores did a magnificant job, a snow job, a brainwashing job. What he did and what he taught the President : of the Council to do1 which is completely false and incorrect and untrue, what he taught him to do, just like a little dog who stands up to ask for a bone, he said, "Blame it all on Doyle.down in Panama." Mr.

Doyle must have had .a long tuse to light a fire over in Elizabeth Towers. He must have had a long fuse for that. Beg your pardon! MR. MORGAN: He has a long record. MR~: A long fuse to reach from Panama to Elizabeth Towers. He has a long pen to take care of the activities of Mr. John Crosbie when he was Chairman of the Board of Directors of Labrador Linerboard. Is Mr. Doyle responsible for Marystown right now? Is Mr. Doyle responsible for A.B. Walsh and the by-passing of the Public Tendering Act? Is Mr. Doyle responsible for setting off these two charges on ei~er side of the Strait of Belle Isle? Is Mr.

Doyle responsible for the Mahoney eommission? These were all diversionary tactics, Mr. Speaker, used by the former Premier of this Province without any foundation, without any basis, not an ounce of truth. And they are still trying to pull it. But they can try all they want , the truth will win out in the end . My hon. friend should know that. Justice will prevail in this Province. The taxpayers will be protected. This skulduggery and corruption will be exposed in the end. It will be exposed and I have four years ahead of me to do it.

Thank God the voters of LaPoile saw fit to send back the watchdog , to this Province , of the Public Treasury. I am beholding. Mr. Speaker, I can safely say for anybody's ears, for anybOdy's ears, that I do not represent vested interest in this House. I am my own 1907

August 13, 1979 Ti!!.pe No. 756 MEt. NEARY: man. I do my otm thing. I am beholding to nobody except the people who elected '!Jle. HOw many members can stand in this House and make ~t statement? How many? AN HON. MEMBER: we all can. MR. NEARY: Stand up, the members who can make it and I will kn.ock down the ones that caJmot. Mr. Speaker, it is a statement that not too many members of this HOuse can make. I am beholding to nobody. I am lJlY own man. MR. MORGAN: (Inaudible} man in Panama. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman, Sir, I should choose to ignore.

My statement in this House, Mr· Speaker, cannot be questioned. When I make a statement it has to be accepted and I tell hon. gentlemen, including the beer barron from Bonavista (J.tr. Morgan) , that I am beholding to nobody in this House, nobody but nObody. MR. ·MORGAN: What are you always doing in I!anaina.? On holidays? MR. NEARY: I like the climate. I am AH-3 beholding to no:COdy. I am my own IQa.n and the only people, Sir, that I am responsiDle to are the people who elected me and that is more than the hon. gentleman can say, the member for Bonavista south (.Mr. Morgi!!.nl.

That is more tba.n the hon. gentleman can say. Jm. MORGAN: At least I stick (ina!l-dible) the people who elected me (inaudible} watchdog for the Province, watch your own district. The people (inaudible) you almost lost the last t:Ul!e (ina,udible) • MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, they sent down the big gun . 1908

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 757 GH-1 MR. NEARY: in the last election. Before the House was prorogued or dissolved for a general election, the han. ~e~~~ f~r Bon~vista S~ut~ (~=- Morga~} oade the same statement, "I was afraid", he said, "of Mr. Cabot Martin, a native born Port aux Basquan, who was going to wipe me out", and now the han. gentleman makes the same statement again. Well, Sir, I will be here long after - MR. MORGAN: Gone the next time. MR. NEARY: I will be here. I will be here. I may go next time down to Bonavista South and take care of the han. gentleman. MR. MORGAN: I would love to have you.

I would love to have you. You will never go back here again. MR. NEARY: And so, Mr. Speaker, han. gentlemen may treat it lightly, Sir, they may treat it lightly, and I hope that these gentlemen who were in my office this morning, these young Newfoundlanders, when I mentioned to them, when I said to them, "Look, you are talking about a half million dollars - big money - I am concerned about it. I am one who pays a premium that will have to pay it, and I am concerned about it.

I will have to pay an extra $12 this year if that tax goes through, and I am concerned about it personally, but what about the $14 million mismanagement? Now, I hope that these gentlemen will see the reaction of government when you talk about that. I hope now when they look at the reports in tomorrow's newspaper and I hope when they hear the reports on television tonight, they might give us 20 seconds, they might give us 10 seconds, and then we wonder why the people are not concerned about these matters. Now,they know why, now they know the answers, now maybe they will come up to ~he House more often. May~e, Mr.

Speaker, the only way that I can bring these scandals and this corruption to a head, and I thoughtof it after this group left my office this morning 1 by the way, I think I am going to travel this Province, and I am going to take the evidence that I have with me, and I am going 1909

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 757 GH-2 MR. NEARY: to meet various and sundry groups, the boards of trade, the chambers of commerce, the Kinsmen, the Lions Club, tne underwri~ers, meet them wnerever I can and show them concrete examples of skulduggery and mismanagement and failure and see, Mr. Speaker, if I can get them fired up, get them fired up, light a fire under the government to get something done about these scandals. Nothing short, in my opinion, of a royal commission should satisfy the people of this Province to look into the manage­ ment of the affairs at both Labrador Linerboard and down here at Marystown.

And I would not mind, Mr. Speaker, if it was not brought to the government's attention before. Back in l975,in DecernberJit was forcefully driven home to the government that there was mismanagement in that shipyard. The ministers responsible should be brought before a royal commission of inquiry, and I believe the Premier agrees with me.

The hen. gentleman so far has proven that he is an hen. gentleman, but as I told the hen. gentleman, only over the long haul will we be able to examine his track record and see if he picked and choosed just the little things to sort of endear himself to the Newfoundland people and ignored the big scandals, because that is no way for the hen. gentleman to win the hearts of the Newfoundland people or the hearts of the members of this Assembly. So, having said this few remarks, Sir, I support the reinstatement of the Public Accounts Committee. I hope that my han. colleague, the member for Burgee - Bay d'Espoir (Mr.

Simmons) will continue to be its Chairman and I look forward to appearing before the Public Accounts Committee in due course, Sir, to raise some of these matters that I have been unable to get answers to in this House that I mentioned here this afternoon. 1.9:i0

August 13, 1979 Tape NO. 758 SD - 1 MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) Is the House ready for the question? All those in favour of the said motion, "Aye", contrary "Nay" , carried. The hon. member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. E • ROBERTS : Before we go on, I have been told by my friend from Bay Verte - White Bay (Mr. T.

Rideout), who stands as the convenor of the committee which the House h~s just appointed, that he wishes to convene the committee immediately. aut to do so , I believe, Sir, he will need leave of the House b~r.ause a committee can not sit when ~1e House is meeting Jnless it is by leave, so I wonder if that could be granted? MR. SPEAKER: By leave? MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER: MR. W. MARSHALL: The hon. President of the Council. Yes, Mr. Speaker. By leave, agreed. I think we are all anxious that the committee meet as soon as possible. MR. E. ROBERTS: They can get their act together now. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR.

SPEAKER: Order No. 3, the Concurrence Motions on Government Services Committee. MR. S. NEARY : l1r • Speaker. Mrt. SPEAKER: The non. member for LaPoile. MR. S • NEAR:!: Mr. Speaker, I did not realize I was going to be back on my feet so soon, Sir, but I want to have a few words on this motion to concur with the estimates of t.'le conunittee which examined the estimates of Public Works, Transportation and Communications, Municipal Affairs, Finance and Manpower. Now, i1r. Speaker, I have a number of questions that I want to put to various ministers in connection with 1911.

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 758 SD - 2 MR. s. NEARY: the estimates that were approved by the Resource Policy Committee. And my first question, Sir - I will try to keep my few remarks, Sir, more or less in the line of questions because I have a half an hour, thirty minutes, in which to speak but I hope the ministeJS responsible will make notes of any questions that I might put to them. And the first question is addressed to the Minister of Transportation and Communications (Mr. c. Brett) and i':. has to do with the dollar that was put on the licence fo~ or five years ago.

Hen. members will recall that one dollar was adced to the driver's licence to take care of the collection of car wrecks in the Province. The company that was commissioned by the government, by the Department of Transportation and Communications went bankrupt and the programme was discontinued, Affiliated Marine Metals,. The goverrunent was withholding a fair amount of money belonging to Afflilated Marine Metals, ana L want to find out, first of all, if that money has been released, if the car wrecks have been sold, if the programme is continuing and if not, what about the dollar that was put on the licence fee?

What is the dollar oow being used for? Is it still being collected? I think it is • What is it being used for? I heard the other day where a new programme of collecting car wrecks was going to be implemented by the Department of Transportation and Communications. I would like to hear a little more about that. I would like for the hon. gentleman to elaborate on that. I would like,also 7 for the han. gentleman to make a note of the Codroy bridge. The bridge, hon. members will recall,collapsed down in the Codroy Valley.

I would like to get a progress report from the han. gentleman on what is happening to the construction of the new bridge. Is it under way? Has the contract been let? Is the bridge being replaced? Just what is happening in that regard? And I also want to hear from the han. 1.912

August lJ, 1979 Tape No. 758 SD - 3 l!R. S. NEARY: gentleman about Winter uaintenance ~~t seems to be - Winter maintenance is a problem all over Newfoundland and Labrador. W~nter maintenance apparently stor~s too late. The minister and the officials issue directives to the various highway depots around the Province 1913

August 13, 1979 'rape 759 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: that the Winter maintenance will start on or about the 15th of December. Now it does not make any difference, c:~.<:lo3'tr(::lo ..... ··~--~-- ~ i£ -t:...l-te he3.ve~s po".l~ all the snow a.~d ice. down Qn top of us - it does not make any difference, the Winter maintenance is not supposed to start until the 15th of December, so therefore, the department is not equipped to take care of the first snowfall. And I am sure that all other hon. gentlemen have encountered this problem.

The most complaints you get about snow clearing and about icy conditions on our highways and on our roads is the first snowfall of the season. So perhaps the hon. gentleman could enlighten me on what can be done about that. And perhaps the hon. gentleman could also tell me while he is at it - and I want to say this, Mr.

Speaker, right from the beginning, about these Committees: With all due respect to members who went down and met night and day on these Committees, I have seen nothing, Sir, that came out and was reported in the newspapers that could not have been dealt with in this House and dealt with more effectively and more efficiently. Because now, Sir, we are all restricted in this House. The only thing that I can do right now is to ask the minister questions and I cannot cross-examine the minister. MR. STAGG: You should have gone to the meetings. HR. NEARY: No, Mr. Speaker, I was not on a Committee.

I cannot cross-examine the minister. I have to ask the minister to write down the questions and then I have to depend on his honesty and integrity to give me the answers. He may not give them to me if he does not feel like it or he may give them to me, but there is nothing I can do. I cannot speak again. It is not like we were in Committee of the Whole. So, Sir, I say that the government are getting a free ride this session of the House.

There is nothing that has been brought out that has not been brought out several times in the past, over and over and over again in this House, and nothing new that could not be brought out in this House. Now, all I can do is ask a few paltry questions and hope that time will permit to get the answers. I want to know about the Winter maintenance, because there have been a lot of complaints, Mr. Speaker, in this Province, 1914

August 13, 1979 Tape 759 EC- 2 MR. NEARY: And I wish I had the time to do some research in this matter. About the salt - the amount of salt that is put on the reads here in the Wintertime. The life of a car in t<ewfuund.La.nd, I would say, the outside, if you have good steel in your car, is five years. You will be lucky if you get - the outside is five years. She is gone after five years, she is no more good, she is ready to collapse in the middle of the road. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) • MR. NEARY: My hon. friend says the lifespan is two years. That is probably closer to it.

But you can still drive it after two years even though the fenders or the doors may be hanging off it - due mainly to the amount of salt that we put on the roads. I do not know if there is any answer to it. I am told that down in California, on the mainland in certain provinces of Canada, the li!e of a car - well, you can go dm·m. in California they tell me - I have never - MR. MORGAN: Tnere is no snow in California. HR. NEAR!:: No. That is right, Sir. That is right, there is no snow so, therefore, you see an awful lot of old cars driving along the highway.

But is it necessary - what I am asking the minister, really,is it necessary to put so much salt on the roads? Is there some other solution to the problem? Because it is costing ti>e consumer in this province a suall fortune to get cars painted and to get spots on the cars patched up as a result of the calcium chloride and ~~e amount of salt ti1at is put on the roads during the i>iinter months. There may be no ans\1er to it, I do not know.

But, certainly, I would like to have ~~e minister tell me if there has been any research done on this matter, or not; and if so, is there a solution or is there not, or will we just have to go on getting our cars painted and turning them in every two or ~~ree years? Because it is costing the people of ti1is province a small fortune. I do not believe, r1r. Speaker, that it is necessary to put all the salt on the road that goes on it. Maybe in certain spots where you have dangerous curves and so forth it may be necessary, but ti1ere are some places where, in my opinion, it is not necessary. 1915

hugust 13 , 1979 Tape 759 i\.T - 3 :.tR. UEARY: ::: 'N"ould also lik..! ~o ask t.fte :unister of Tra.,sportation and Communications if he would consi<ler tabling the agreement bet:.4een the Gover~'lt of Cana ·a, the Hinistry of Transpo .rt and t."le provincial Gover nment, I presume the miniscer ' z deparl:l!le ·,t, i;} connection with c:,e operations of intra-provincial ferries i!l this provinC3 1 1916 .. ·'' •·

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 760 GH-1 MR. NEARY: the Bell Island ferry, the Fogo Island ferry, the St. Brendan's- Change Islands ferry- well, Change Islands may ~ a. Ji:!:f\:!l.'ent. case bcca'...L.SC I u.r.ule.rstand that ur.1c of th~ first acts of the Premier when he became the new Premier, the born-again Premier of this Province, was to give a very generous agreement to the gentleman who operates the Change Islands ferry- I forget, what is it~ Green Bay Transport, is that the name of the company? Who knows about it? Roger knows about it. MR. W. ROWE: The Premier knows all about it. MR.

NEARY: But anyway, I think there was a half a million dollar contract. I would like to ask the han. gentleman if he would table that contract between Mr. Weir and the provincial government, the contract that has to do with the operation of the Change Islands ferry. No other company could get it, no other ferry service we were told by the Premier was going to get this kind of a deal, but it happened to be in the Premier's district and it happened to be a half million dollars, I think, I have not seen the contract, I would like to see it.

And a much broader aspect of the ferry service than that, I would like for the hon. gentleman to table the agreement between Ottawa and the provincial government in connection with the operation of ferries in this Province. As hon. members will recall, when Mr. Pickersgill was up in Ottawa representing this Province, the representative in the Government of Canada from this Province, the government of the day, the Premier of the day, managed to pawn off the ferry services, the ferries that were operating from one point within the Province to another point in the Province.

These are called inter-provincial ferry services - inter - they were not linking Newfoundland to another province of Canada and, therefore, fell under the jurisdiction of the Province even though the Premier of the day pawned them off on Ottawa, and I know the Bell Island ferry service was being subsidized to the tune of almost a million dollars when the Government of Canada passed the ferries back to the Province. We have not heard too 1917

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 760 GH-2 MR. NEARY: about it. It is a very important item, Sir, very important for the eight or nine thousand people who l~ve over on Bell Island. I~ is a very important ~tern to the people who live on Fogo Island. It is a very important item to the people who live on St. Brendan's. I believe the ferry across the Straits of Belle Isle, I believe that still falls under federal jurisdiction because they go to Blanc Sablan which is the Province of Quebec, and the only ferry service in Newfoundland that goes from the Great Northern Peninsula - St. Barbe, is it? - AN HON.

MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR. NEARY: - and ties up in Blanc Sablan, so because it goes from the Province of Newfoundland to the Province of Quebec, the Government of Canada still maintains that ferry, still subsidizes that ferry. But the one on Bell Island,where you are going to have very serious problems in a short while because the John Guy is over twenty years ago and the Catherine is not fit to operate only in the Summer months on the Tickle, you are going to have a big problem there, where they are going to have to look for a replacement for the John Guy.

And I might say for the hon. gentleman's benefit I was over to my old home town yesterday and came back with a trunkful of vegetables. God, I got her made, boys. It cost me $4 to go over and I came back with about $25 worth of tomatoes and vegetables right out of the ground. And, you know, I was awfully disappointed 1 I was awfully disappointed, Mr. Speaker. when I left Bell Island I believe there were 35 greenhouses operating, 35 growing tomatoes, and they could produce about 2.5 tons of tomatoes each greenhouse. I went over yesterday, out of the 35, one greenhouse operating, only one.

That is a wonderful crop, it is the best crop of tomatoes I have seen in a greenhouse for a long time and I have seen a good many of them, but that greenhouse is being operating by Bill Whalen on Middleton Avenue. It is really a pleasure - do your heart good to go inside of it, so I got myself 15 or 20 pounds of tomatoes and went to see my old buddies, my old buddies I was farming with the last couple of 1918

August 13, 1979 M.R. NEAR'i: back quite a few - I'1R. Mul<GAN : MR. NEARY: Tape No. 760 GH-3 years ! was over there and I brought Diu y'ou pay the going price O\'er there? No, I did not pay the going price, I certainly did not, Sir, they were so glad to see me. They were so glad to see a member, t.\·1ey said, "We are so glad to see somebody from the House of Assembly, we have ~ot seen anybody from the Souse since 1975, 1975." They said , "lihat time are you coming back again?" AN HON. MEMBER: !-1R. NEARY : Why did you not run there? I am sorely tempted, Mr. Speaker, I am sorely tempted, but I believe, Sir, . 1919

August .13, 1979 Tape 76.1 IB-~ MR. NEARY: believe the next time around I might have to prove a point to han. gen·Clemen in this House. I might have to prove a point. I might have to pick another district like Bonavista South. MR. MORGAN: Oh,'Steve', come on! MR. NEARY: Or Humber Valley or Trinity North or Labrador. I might have to prove a point to the han. gentlemen. I would love to do it. When this term is up, Sir, if we go four years, I will have twenty-one years served in this House, Six provincial general elections, twenty-one years and that is a long time. It is almost time, Sir, to turn in your badge.

But I believe I will be tempted to go one more time. I believe, Sir, I will be tempted to prove a point to han. gentleman. I might even go out to Stephenville. If the Labrador Linerboard scandal is not resolved by then I might even go out to Stephenville and take on my han. friend although I would hate to do it. My han. friend is trying to assert his independence in the House this session. He is trying to become another Neary in the House out he has got a long way to go 1 Sir. He has not got the experience. I do not know if his legal training did him any good or not.

His legal training might not have done him any good but he is trying to assert his independence and he is trying to make a mark and make a name for himself. And I appreciate that. I appreciate any member of the House. One thing, Mr. Speaker, I would say, that you will never find,since you have been in this House and since other members have been here, the seventeen years that I have been here, I never criticize a man for what he does in the House. But God only knows I have been criticized. I never criticize a man for what he says in the House, If he feels free, if he feels strong about it, then he should say it.

And I have never gone out and said, so-and-so should not haye said this, so-and-so should not have socked so-and-so in the jaw~ so -and-so talks too much~ so-and-so, I do not like his style. I never said it ~ Sir, and never will because I think once we reach that stage 7 when we start talking like that, then I would say democracy is in bad shape. So I may have to be tempted, Mr. Speaker 1 may be tempted 1920

August _13, l979 Tape 76l MR. NEARY: one more t~e to take one of the hon. gentlemen. I would love to deflate -one of the ministers. T will not say which one but I would love to deflate one. But,anyway,coming back to the ferry servi _ce again. It is not the hon, Minister of Transportation_, he can sleep tonight. But anyway, Si:r, I would like to find out about this ferry agreement. Is it going to be good or bad for Newfoundland? How much did it cost the Government of Canada to buy their way out of it? What concessions did they make the Province?

Perhaps if the hon. gentleman tabled the agreement I could take it home and read it. But if the hon, gentleman does not want to do that I would like to have the information. It is very important to the people who live on these islands who are very concerned, who have very little information, by the way. I attended a meeting over on Bell Island only a few months ago and the people then were asking me at this meeting I attended, You know, what does this involve, this new agreement, what does it involve? Nobody on Bell Island knew. They do not know who to turn to.

They do not know what is going to happen when The Catherine is taken off now after the end of August or the middle of September, I am not sure which, I believe it is the end of August. to the service? What is going to happen Now, that takes care of the Minister of Transportation and communications (Mr. Brett) with the amount of time that I have. I am going to swing around now to the undertaker and I am going to ask him, Sir, if he would again, I am asking again for the umpteenth time, will the hon. gentleman - MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS): Order, please! MR. NEARY: - table the agreement between the - MR.

SPEAKER (SIMMS) ; Order, please! The hon. gentleman is quite aware that members should be referred to oy their districts or by their portfolios. I would like to bring that to the attention of the hon. member. The hon. member for LaPoile. 1921.

1\ugust 13, 1979 Tape 761 rs-3 MR. NEARY: Yes, Sir . The hon. '!tinister of Public Works tMr. Young) the undertaker from the ctis""...rict of Harbour Grace. Row is that, Sir? You are digging them, Dil lon. The hon . Premier promised me, by the way, a couple of weeks ago to table the Crosbie contract for the rental of office space down here t Atlantic Place as wel~ as ·the hon , gent leman also promised to take a look at tabling the order in Council on .EPA. And EPA, by the way, the 1922 •. .. ...

Aug.1st 13,1979 Tape No. 762 AH-1 MR. NEARY: Orders in Council, I checked this out with the constitutional people right across Canada, Orders in Council can be tabled and should be tabled when asked by members. It is perfectly in order to put a question on the Order Paper to have Orders in council tabled and the government should table these. Because if you did not do that you would be carrying on secret affairs, all the decisions, meetings would be held in secret,which they are but the government would operate in secrecy and you cannot have that.

That is why when you ask to have an Order in Council tabled it should be tabled and maybe before I get off t:ne Hinister of Transportation (Mr.Erettl,the Pr~mier miqht consiaer tabling that document, table the document on EPA becaus~ I just finished with Transportation and I would like to have that Order in Council , Sir. But anyway 7 the Premier also promised to table the agreement between Atlantic Place and the Newfoundland government in connection with the rental of office space. And would the hon. gentleman tell me what is going to happ~n?

The government,obviously now with Atlantic Place, will attempt to consolidate their operation here in Confederation Building and downtown in Atlantic Place. And what will happen now with all these two-bit out-of-the-way places that the government had rented? What will happen to all these places? Will the contracts be cancelled or when they expire they will not be renewed? My understanding, Sir, the justification for renting expensive office space down in Atlantic Place, my impression of what the government said at the time was that they have now got places scattered all over St.

John's, very expensive,paying parking space, expensive rent, transportation and so forth so they wanted to consolidate their position and this was one of the reasons thev aavP f~r ~aili~ g out Mr. Crosbie with this white elephant building that he has down there on Water Street. That was one of the reasons why we are paying higher rent per square foot in that building than any other building in St. John's or in Newfoundland. Perhaps the hon. gentleman can tell us what will happen to all the other locations? Will they be shut down? Does the government have enough space now to consolidate 1923

August 13,1979 Tape No. 762 AH-2 MR. NEARY: its position? I know they are paying rent down in Atlantic Place for the last several months. They are paying rent for space that is not even being renovated. I understand one whole floor of that building will not be renovated for several months to come yet the taxpayers are paying rent for it. I want to find out if that is true and I want to find out about these little two-bit out-of-the-way deals that were made for these dumps and dives around St. John's. Are they going to be renewed or are they going to be shut down?

I hope the hon. gentleman will give us a statement on rental of office space. Mr. Speaker, the hon. the Premier has established a precedent now, a policy of giving us lists of the various highway projects that are going to be undertaken in the Province. And the hon. gentleman told us he would proceed to try and get a Cabinet decision on the list of the Rural Development loans and the Newfoundland Development Corporation loans that are made and the loans that are made by the Newfoundland Farm Board and by the Fishery Loan Board.

Well, I wonder if the hon. gentleman would also consider, would the hon. the Premier consider tabling the logs of the government aircraft? I cannot get his attention on this one. I am trying to find out now again.

I am testing the hon. gentleman and trying to find out if he is going to pick and choose the lists that he is going to table in the House or will the hon. the Premier - if I can get his attention for a moment- would the hon. gentleman care to table the log of the number of passengers that went aloft in helicopters in the last year, the number of passengers that went aloft in the government aircraft, the purpose of the trip 1924

August 13, 1979 Tape 763 RT-1 NR. NEARY: and so forth and so on? Would t.'"le hon. gentleman agree to give us a list of all the passengers carried by the helicopters, where they were going, and the purpose of t.'1e trip? Was it taxpayer business they were on? Or were t.'"ley being carried to a summer cottage somewhere? I have very good reason for raising this. ~~e Auditor-General raised it in his last report. The hon. gentleman strongly condemned t11e government for t..IJ.e complimentary use of helicopters. A.."ii HON . MEMBER: NR. NEARY: what? AN HON . HE!1BER: MR. NEARY: not on this side.

Most of them were (inaudible) . I beg your pardon. Host of tilem were Most of them were on that side. No, Mr. Speaker, most of them were So I think it is only fair if the taxpayers' money is going to be used to enter into sweetheart deals for luxurious helicopter contracts in this province and the government is going to fly an aircraft around, well why should t..loey not table a list of all the people who travel on the government aircr~t, where they are going, why they are going there, and the purpose of t.'"leir trip:r I think Ulat is only fair, Mr.

Speaker, and I hope the Premier will agree to let us have t.'lat information. The same thing wit.'"l the motor pool - I believe when we asked questions about the motor pool the ministers who have cars out for long periods of time, t.'"ley give their own cars to spouse and then they drive around at taxpayers' expense. I do not know if that has been cut out, or not. Perhaps the han. minister can tell us the regulations now covering the motor pool. And, Mr. Speaker, Newfoundland Information Services.

Another item I would like to raise and would like to hear the minister tell us now about,Newfoundland Information Services. First we were told it was going to be wiped out. Two gentlemen resigned down 1925

August 13, 1979 Tape 763 RT-2 MR. NEARY: there. The gentleman t:.lat came over from The Evening Telegram, that was writing all the favourable articles al:lout !1r. Moores and the Tories before the 1 72 election - before the 1 71 election, as a matter of fact - that gentleman that was re,~arded by being appointed Director of Newfoundland Information Services, who quit there a few months ago and went with CN, and then his partner he took over from The Evening Telegram with him - these two gentlemen have now quit.

So for all practical purposes - and they have not been replaced - so for all practical purposes there is no Newfoundland Information Services. So I would like to know what is going to happen down ~~ere on ~~e main floor, Sir. What happened to all ~~e tele~ype machines? And why are we paying out $50,000 a month? - the answer I got the other day from the han. gentleman the other day for this special telephone arrangement. I think we should have an update on that situation too, Sir.

Now the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Services is not in his seat. l'iho is answering for the minister on ~~is report we now have before us? The llon. gentleman? Well, the first item I would like to raise is an i tern, Mr. Speaker, that I am sure is dear to ~'J.e heart of the member for Gander (lrrs. Newhook) and it has to do with a - MR. FLIGHT: She did not hear you. No, she ciici not hear me. I am sure, Mr. Speaker, the i ten that I am going to raise would be very dear to the heart of the lady from Gander. Anyway, I will ask ti•e han. the Premier. It is reported, ~~.

Speaker, in the media and to the gover~ent that a sewer project in Gander is being mismanaged. A sewer project. non. gentlemen might know about it. There was a sewerage system installed in Gander five years ago. Five years ago. And now this system has to be replaced. MRS. NEWHOOK: (Il audible) MR. NEARY: The hon. minister does not agree with that~ M.~. NEWHOOK: (Inaudible) HR. NEARY: Has not heard about it. Well, here is ,, a."l

article in the news;?.aper· of August 8, 1979:- ~\ler has to be replaced . 1926

August 13, 1979 T ape 763 RT- 3 afte r five years. Newfoundland and Labrador lfousing Corporation work \!1\SatisfactorJ. " does not know anything about it? Tne non . gentlem~~ AN liON . NEHBER: t·IR. W...Aro:': (!naudiblel W~U; the hon . gentleman on the council out ther e , or was the hon. lady on the counc i l out there? h'l HON. ~!ElolBER : :OC.R. NEARY : (Inaudible) "After taking on 1927

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 764 GH-1 MR. NEARY: disturbing prospects, Mayor Lloyd Mercer wonders whether it has become necessary for council to hire an engineer to oversee the work being done for the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation. The Corporation, an agency of the Newfoundland Government, is developing the Northeast housing project at Gander. Council may have to institute full engineering inspections and so forth and so on. The whole matter arose when council was discussing complaints by residents of a

section of Rickenbacker Road" - just imagine, Rickenbacker Road, "Only about five years ago sanitary and storm sewers were installed there and already the project has to be done over again and to the great inconvenience of residents, some of whom are complaining vehemently" - and the hon. lady has not heard about it? - "complaining vehemently" - according to the newspaper item-" saying the work is being dragged out and it is very dangerous to the people." If the han. Premier is answering for his colleague, the Minister of Municipal Affairs (Mr.

Windsor), perhaps there are a few questions the han. gentleman can answer in connection with this job in Gander. Mayor Mercer is highly critical of the consultant engineering services, certainly saw the need for full inspections if problems are to continue in the Northeast. Apart from the Northeast develop- ment, he alluded to consultant engineering services in the construction of the water pipeline to the Gander Lake, noting bitterly the work cost council an extra $110,000. Severe flooding has occurred in the Northeast

section where the residents are complaining about this replacement of the sewer line - severe flooding. MRS. NEWHOOK: (Inaudible) some kind of agreement on that that they would come in and redo it or reimburse council for doing it. I think it is something like that - 1928

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 764 GH-2 MR. NEARY: The han. member for Gander (Mrs. Newhook) might be interested in knowing that her constituents are reported to be up in arms over this. I will just quote right from the newspaper article, "Residents were reported up in arms over work being carried out on Rickenbacker Road". AN HON. MEMBER: Daily News? MR. NEARY: No, it is not, it is the Gander Beacon. "About one-third of the street is being done with new pipe and it having to replace the old", the han. lady is not familiar with this problem?

It struck me, Sir, and from the inquiries that I have made, it struck me that everybody in Gander knows about it. It is a major problem. It has been reported in all the newspapers and on the radio stations out there. Perhaps, now, I might alert the han. member to the problem, maybe her constituents might be interested in having her give them a hand to try to resolve this matter. But cer~ainly I want to know from whoever the spokesman is for Municipal Affairs,why this system had to be replaced only after five years and why is the council complaining about the consulting engineers? Did they do a good job?

Why did they get an award of a hundred and some odd thousand dollars in their favour, much to the chagrin of the town council of Gander? Mr. Speaker, we were told a couple of years ago in this hon.

House by the minister of Municipal Affairs, I believe the present Premier, that they were going to clean up the mess down in Municipal Affairs, the mess that they had with consulting engineering firms in this Province and the rip-off that was taking place, and we were told by the present Premier when he was minister of Municipal Affairs that they were almost reaching the stage where criminal charges were about to be laid against consulting engineering firms in this ,Province, and that is the last we ever heard tell of it, the las: we ever heard tell of it. Now we have another example. We have Placentia where 1929

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 764 GH-3 MR. NEARY: you have a million-dollar sewer line in the gro~~d chat a flushing toilet has not gone through yet. It i~o jU!.t t:i1c.ce in t:i..c ground . I do noc beLieve ther., is one house hooked on to it. It may be hooked on, but chey cannot: use it, they cannot flush the coilet. We had the same thing happen on the Great Northern Peninsula and cwo or three - 11R. ROBERTS: ~!R. w. ROWE: MR. ROBERTS: t-m. NEARY: me, 'Ed' - MR. ROBERTS: MR. NEARY: :-m. ROBERTS: it (inaudible) . MR. NEARY: I am getti.ng my questions.

Flower's Cove and other places - Conception Bay South. - can you read my bad writing? No, I cannot, you had better tell You have an hour. I have an hour? You have an hour. Now, if you cake No, I am comi.'lg down ch.e line. This situation is ridiculous, you know, this giving the government a free ride is - God! As I say, there is nothing, nothing that came out in Committee that should not have come out in this House '1here we have the minister and we can 1930 ·•· ,.. .. .. •·

August 13, 1979 Tape No. 76