March 15, 2001 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIV No. 2

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order please!

Before we begin our routine proceedings, I want to introduce to all members

of the Assembly our new Page. To my right we have Miss Karen Moores. Karen is a

student at Memorial University.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell

Island.

MR. WALSH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On Thursday, March 15 - today, as a matter of fact - the Provincial Council

of the Duke of Edinburgh Award Program is holding a bronze ceremony at the Town

Hall on Bell Island, tonight. The Duke of Edinburgh Award is an international

award for young people. This award program has been active in Newfoundland now

since 1974. There are currently some 1,775 young people and 500 adult volunteers

participating in the award program. The success of this program is largely due

to the partnership which exists with the provincial government.

The following individuals from Conception Bay East & Bell Island, my own

district, will be receiving an award at tonight's ceremony. They are: Edward O'Brien,

Jeremy Boone, Amanda Fowler, Judy Whalen, Sharyn Hiscock, Crystel Churchill,

Alex Boone, Christine Tulk, Cathy Tulk, Gordie Bennet, Jason Slade and Melissa

Sheppard. These twelve young people will be receiving their awards, as I said,

tonight at Bell Island.

We should all take pride in the accomplishment of these individuals, and I

would like to take the opportunity to offer my personal congratulations to the

recipients and hope that they continue with the program.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. WALSH: That is all I needed.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

MR. WALSH: In actual fact, that was the last word, Mr. Speaker.

I hope they continue with the program.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, it is with sadness that I rise once again to

speak on the tragedy at Pouch Cove, and the loss of three young men: Jesse

Elliott, Adam Wall and Adrian Sullivan. There were many people involved in the

search and recovery of the three young men. There were many acts of bravery,

from the boys themselves in trying to save each other, to the people at the

scene putting themselves at risk in trying to save Jesse, Adam and Adrian. The

air search and rescue people and, in particular, the individual who went into

the icy waters to recover Jesse Elliott, are very much appreciated. Support from

the people of the community of Pouch Cove and the various groups was humbling to

me, and to see. The RNC, the Rovers, the Pouch Cove Firefighters, the Ladies

Auxiliary, the ladies of the community, and the Lions and Lionesses of Pouch

Cove, all played an important role in helping to bring Adrian, Adam and Jesse

back to their families and friends. Particular attention, recognition and thanks

- although thanks is certainly not necessary -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. J. BYRNE: By leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. J. BYRNE: - has to go the residents of Pouch Cove who eventually

found the three young men. The persistence, tenacity and knowledge of these men

brought Adam, Adrian and Jesse back to their families and friends, which will,

in the long term, help bring closure for their families, friends, and the

community in general.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burin-Placentia West

MS M. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to pay tribute

to a great Newfoundland woman who was laid to rest here in St. John's on

Wednesday of this week. Helen Canning was a devoted wife of former MHA Patrick

J. Canning, who represented the people of Burin-Placentia West in this House of

Assembly for almost thirty years.

Mr. Speaker, there are many members in this hon. House who can attest to the

valuable role a supportive partner often plays in the performance of our

constituency duties. Helen, or the little princess, as many affectionately

referred to her, proved to be one of the very best as she continuously touched

the lives of so many through her assistance to Patty, in his role as a highly

respected MHA. Helen's commitment to her church and community did not end with

political life but extended well beyond these years of political involvement.

Helen will long be remembered for her smile, her generous heart, and her open

door policy. Our Province has lost one of its best, and I am certain all

honorable members join with me today in extending condolences -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MS M. HODDER: Thank you,

- to Helen's daughter, Dr. Pat Canning; her husband, Richard Cashin; her

sister, Gertrude Fleming; and three grandchildren: Jennifer, Stephanie, and John

Paul.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to ask all members to join with me in congratulating

Newfoundland and Labrador's first-ever winners of the National Junior Men's

Curling Championships. On February 10 in St. Catharines, Ontario, skip Brad

Gushue, third Mark Nichols, second Brent Hamilton, lead Mike Adam, and their

coach Jeff Thomas, did our Province proud.

This week and next week, along with fifth man Jamie Korab, they are

representing Canada at the World Junior Curling Championships in Ogden, Utah. It

is a tremendous honor which they have earned through hard work perfecting their

skills.

They have been busy practicing at the St. John's Curling Club, in my

district, which is the curling rink they call home base. The Gushue rink is

playing its first game this afternoon at 1:00 p.m. Utah time, 4:30 p.m. locally,

against the U.S. We wish them well and assure them that not only the entire

Province but indeed the whole country will be cheering them on.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, yesterday, March 14, was Literacy Action

Day. Literacy Action Day was initiated in l993 by several national literacy

organizations. The goal of Literacy Action Day is to raise the awareness of the

need for further and continued support for literacy.

Mr. Speaker, literacy is a critical social and economic issue. There is an

estimated seven to ten million adults, that is virtually one in every two

Canadians, between the age of sixteen and older who cannot work well with words

and numbers. Low literacy levels affect nearly all aspects of life, including

our health, our income, our social populations, and educational attainment.

I would like to commend the Literacy Development Council of Newfoundland and

Labrador for endorsing and promoting literacy action and raising public

awareness during this issue.

On that same note, I would like to acknowledge the accomplishments of the

Vista school district, in the Clarenville area, for their tremendous work in the

area of literacy.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Last week, the minister announced that there were six

schools in the Vista school district - six out of twenty schools in the entire

Province - to have been top schools participating in Levels K- III in a reading

program initiated by the minister. I would like to commend the Vista school

district and their staff, and the parents and teachers, for that effort.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's

MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

who tomorrow night will take to the basketball court in Dayton, Ohio, for his

debut with the National Collegiate Athletic Association. Carl is a member of the

Rainbow Warriors Team, from the University of Hawaii. He assisted his team to

win a berth at this NCAA Tournament with the game of a lifetime last Saturday

night in Tulsa, Oklahoma. At this game, Carl scored twenty-five points, and with

1.8 seconds left on the clock he drove in for a basket that sent the game into

overtime. His team finally won the game, seventy-eight to seventy-two.

Carl's is a story that dreams are made of and movies are made of. The fact

the commitment, hard work and sacrifice he has made during his lifetime. Carl

was left an orphan at five years of age - with his four brothers - after a fire

on Good Friday morning in Branch, St. Mary's Bay. His mom and dad succumbed to

the injuries after that fire, and both died. He found comfort in basketball. He

was separated from his brothers and went to live with parents -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. MANNING: Last year his stepfather died in his boat that was tied up

to wharf in St. Bride's.

Carl's homemade basketball hoop on the main road in Patrick's Cove - the

stories have reached as far as The Globe and Mail , The National Post, our

own local media here in the Province and throughout the United States. In the

small community of Patrick's Cove, with 150 people, it is no small feat. One

thing for sure that Carl stands apart from in his debut in basketball in the

United States is that his favorite food is cod fish.

The distance he has to travel has never bothered him. The journey has been a

dream come true. Tomorrow night we would like to, on behalf of the Province,

wish him the best - from a self-motivated and self-made proud Newfoundlander.

Thank you.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to update my honourable colleagues on my meeting yesterday with

the Prime Minister of Canada, the Honourable Jean Chrtien.

I am pleased to report, Mr. Speaker, that my meeting with the Prime Minister

was a very positive one. The Prime Minister demonstrated a clear understanding

of the opportunities and pressures facing Newfoundland and Labrador. He agreed

that we will work together, where possible, to achieve real and meaningful

results for the people of this Province.

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister and I discussed the state of the Newfoundland

and Labrador fishery, and I expressed the strong opposition of this government

to further allocations of shrimp to new interests in other provinces. I clearly

indicated to the Prime Minister that the principle of adjacency must apply in

the management of our fisheries resources. It was agreed that the federal and

provincial Ministers of Fisheries should discuss this matter at the earliest

opportunity. Our Minister of Fisheries has already written on the issue and a

meeting is arranged.

The Prime Minister and I discussed the serious plight of substance abuse

faced by the Innu children of Labrador. He indicated his continued support for

our collective efforts to address this serious problem. Health and Community

Services Minister Julie Bettney will continue to cooperate and consult with her

federal counterpart, Minister Allan Rock, in addressing this important matter.

We also discussed the provincial name change, and agreed to ask federal and

provincial Intergovernmental Affairs Ministers to work together to expedite the

necessary processes.

The Prime Minister and I discussed a number of other important matters,

including the divestiture of Ports and Harbours from federal to provincial

jurisdiction; the equalization program; "clawbacks" on resource

revenues; and the disposition of the federal government's 8.5 per cent share

of the Canadian Hibernia Holding Corporation. We have agreed to work toward a

realignment that would be advantageous for both our governments.

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister recently met with President Bush, and it is

clear from that meeting that North American Energy Policy is an area of prime

importance for all of us. The energy sector is one in which this Province is

poised to play an increasingly important role. There is substantial interest in

the development of the Lower Churchill Power Project, and in offshore natural

gas development - both for local conversion to electricity on the Island, and

for export. I was pleased to learn that the Prime Minister recognizes that both

of these components could form a part of the North American Energy Policy.

Mr. Speaker, productive relationships are built on trust and understanding. I

accept the Prime Minister's commitment to, and interest in, addressing the

and indeed the other provincial governments where appropriate, in advancing our

interests. I look forward to working with the Prime Minister as he addresses the

priorities we discussed in our meeting yesterday.

Mr. Speaker, this was an introductory meeting, one which generated necessary

follow-up activity in several key areas. As we pursue these issues, my Cabinet

colleagues and I will report to this Legislature on developments as they occur.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is the Premier's first ministerial statement in the House as Premier.

I thought it would have provided some opportunity or some measure to provide

more beef. I mean it is reminiscent of the British comedy: Yes, Prime

Minister/Yes, Prime Minister; because that is all that has happened in the

meeting yesterday with the Prime Minister.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: For example, everybody on this side of the House and

everyone in this Province were of the impression and understanding that the

shrimp allocation last year to PEI would be a one-time issue only. Did the

Premier come back with a commitment that that would be lived up to? Absolutely

not, Mr. Speaker.

When we talk about the disposition of the Canadian Hibernia Holding

Corporation's 8.5 per cent share of giving that to the Province, where did we

hear that before? This Monday from the Leader Elect of our party and from

myself, Mr. Speaker. Did the minister come back with any substance whatsoever

from that? Absolutely not.

To add insult to injury, I have yet to hear this Premier talk about how the

Province of Quebec continues to enjoy special status, continues to hold this

Province hostage when it comes to energy development. We are supposed to live in

an age of deregulation which allows us to freewheel our power across their

province. Did he bring that up with the Prime Minister? I

with the Prime Minister? I say to the Premier, the next time you meet the

Prime Minister talk about free trade within Canada before you talk about free

trade within North America.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the last thing I will say is that if this is

the type of report that we can expect from this Premier and this minister, my

advice to you, Sir, unsolicited as it may be, behave like the groundhog, stay in

the hole that you are in and don't even bother to come out to see if you have

a shadow or not.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier reports that the meeting with the Prime Minister was a positive

one. Well before the meeting even started, the single most important issue, the

equalization formula, the Premier was shot down by the Prime Minister, just as

the Minister of Finance was shot down by Paul Martin in Halifax two weeks

before. Even though for the last five or six months we have heard the former

Premier, supported by this government, suggesting that the equalization formula

was going to be changed, we needed him and all of his ministers, all of his

other Liberal members in Ottawa to do that. What we have, Mr. Speaker, is the

Premier of this Province going to Ottawa with his shopping list and being told

that there is nothing in the shop for him. He brought back nothing.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. HARRIS: He is going to have to do better than that if this Province

is going to get any advantage from the deals that we need and the changes we

need to have our rightful place.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform my hon. colleagues of the

Department of Education's comprehensive program of initiatives to improve

literacy levels in our Province.

With the realignment of the department, we are able to devote more energy to

improving the K-12 education system and intensify our focus on the provincial

literacy strategy and early childhood education. Also, recognizing the

importance of tackling literacy before the age of five and the vital role

parents play in the development of children's literacy, responsibility for

Early Childhood Education will become part of the mandate of the Department of

Education. The department is currently involved in developing strategies to

assist families long before their children reach kindergarten, together with the

Departments of Health and Community Services, and Human Resources and

Employment.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Education's comprehensive strategy to

improve literacy and numeracy, beginning in the primary grades, is well

underway.

Reading specialists have been hired at each geographical school board office

in the Province. In partnership with school districts across the Province, we

are delivering specialized training to all primary classroom and special

education teachers in how to teach reading, writing, oral language and other

language arts skills. This training follows the implementation of a new language

arts program in grades K-3. For children requiring extra assistance with

reading, early intervention programs in reading are provided. To ensure that

children in the primary grades have acquired the skills they need, an annual

comprehensive testing program in language arts has been developed for Grade 3

students.

This year, a new program in mathematics was introduced at Grade 1. New

learning resources and significant training for teachers were provided in an

effort to increase achievement levels in mathematics by the end of Grade 3. Over

the next two years, a new mathematics curriculum will be introduced to children

in Grades 2 and 3. A few years ago we implemented new curriculum and resources

for science in grades K-3.

Initiatives from the recent Ministerial Report on Education being considered

to enhance literacy and numeracy levels include lengthening the primary school

day and increasing the amount of instructional time for language arts and

mathematics. These changes are being considered by government pending changes in

legislation. Government also accepted the panel's recommendations to change

the method of allocating teachers to school boards. This year a new allocation

framework was implemented. This has resulted in an increase in the number of

teachers allocated to the primary grades.

Our most recent initiative, as you may have heard last week, is that we are

moving forward with our plan to increase class time in primary grades for

language arts and mathematics. This latest initiative is part of our

well-planned, well-thought-out, comprehensive strategy to improve literacy and

numeracy levels in our Province and provide a well-rounded education to our

students. I believe this is the right thing to do for our Province and the right

thing to do to ensure our students are well prepared at the early stages of

their education to move through the system and into their careers.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for giving me an advanced copy, but it really wasn't

necessary because I read this, I think, in the Letters to the Editor three or

four days ago in The Telegram . Let me tell the House that the spin is on.

There is no argument, minister, on this side of the House that we do need

comprehensive, early literacy strategies. To look at what is actually being done

in the schools, you put in programs and you talk about the language arts program

going into the primary grades. It is a good program, minister, but you are not

putting in the resources that are necessary for that program to be carried out.

You are sending teachers in there with half the class number of books that are

required. There is a ratio -

AN HON. MEMBER: It is shameful.

MR. HEDDERSON: It is shameful.

When you talk about professional development of the teachers, you are giving

them one day, at the very most, to introduce these new particular programs. Your

most recent initiative of taking time away from other subject areas to increase

the time in language arts. Again, these initiatives were done without the proper

consultation. You went ahead and dictated from above to the teachers who are the

ones who are implementing these programs, and you did not even talk to them. So,

when we look at you, as a minister, standing up today and saying that everything

is fine -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. HEDDERSON: - minister, it is shameful.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Certainly there is no one in the Province who would not support a thrust to

increase the literacy of young children and see the Department of Education get

fully involved in early childhood education as part of the mandate in the

Department of Education. This is something that is long overdue. Many students

in this Province need a lot of extra help in preparing them for school to be

able to meet the program needs.

The real issue here is the one that has caused the most controversy, and that

is the initiative mentioned in the last paragraph here about increasing class

time in primary grades for language arts and mathematics at the expense of other

programs. The Newfoundland and Labrador Teachers' Association, the people who

are in the classrooms everyday of the week, every week of the school year -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. HARRIS: - are the ones who are questioning the minister's approach

to this, and it should be reconsidered.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am glad to see the House open. We will get the opportunity, over the next

several weeks and several months, to give the new Premier his opportunity to

live up to his self-professed billing of straight answers and real solutions.

In line with that comment I would like to ask him this. In the 1999 Throne

Speech, are you aware that the former Premier in the Throne Speech - a

government of which he was part of - said: A loud and clear message has been

sent to Inco by the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. There will be no mine

at Voisey's Bay unless the ore is processed in the Province. That is the

choice. It is Inco's to make. My government's position, the position of the

people of Newfoundland, will not waiver. Could he explain that statement, of the

government he was a part of, with the one that he just made when he became

Premier at his news conference, with his Minister of Mines and Energy, when he

said: That the government would reopen formal negotiations with Inco with a

clean slate. What do you mean, Premier, by a clean slate? Is it your way of

saying that you feel no obligation whatsoever to live up to the commitments of

your former Premier and your government, as you stated during the 1999 election,

and in many, many subsequent statements both inside and outside this House?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate the opportunity to give an answer in the Legislature because I

have answered that question probably 10,000 times elsewhere in Newfoundland and

Labrador. Maybe the Leader of the Opposition has chosen not to listen to the

answer. I believe the people of the Province have listened to the answer. The

short answer is this, because I will try to give short answers: There is no

change in the position from the mandate sought in 1999 to today. None.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: There is a change, Mr. Speaker.

I will ask him this question. On May 19, 1999, under direct questioning in

this House by me to the former Premier, Brian Tobin, I asked him this question.

I will ask it to you, and we will see if you will give the same answer as he

did. I asked him: Is the government still fully committed to the processing,

that there will be no mine in this Province unless 100 per cent of the ore is

processed in this Province, and also that the product that leaves this Province

requires no further processing? Is that your position, yes or no?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We have fast-forwarded from the election he talked about, and the Red Book of

1999 which was in January and February to May.

The commitment and the platform on which the members on this side of the

House ran in 1999 was that there would not be a project at Voisey's Bay unless

a method was found to have nickel leave Newfoundland and Labrador. That was what

we said in 1999, in the election, and there has been no change.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: You see, Mr. Speaker? This is the same member who got up

one day in this Legislature and tried to lecture us on "words are

important". I say to the Premier: They are, and you may live, Sir, to eat

yours. We will see.

I will ask him again, and I will quote from Hansard. Premier Brian Tobin, in

response to me when I said: - and I wonder if you can stand up and say the same

thing - Is government still fully committed to 100 per cent of the ore being

mined, refined, and processed in this Province? It goes on to say - the hon.

Premier, Premier Tobin, says: Yes, Mr. Speaker, that is the position of the

Government of Newfoundland and Labrador.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary. I ask him to get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I ask you again: Is that still your position? Because what you said a few

moments ago does not reflect the position that the former Premier, who spoke for

you and your government, said. Can you answer that today?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Maybe I might ask a question of the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, he did make it quite clear just two short

days ago that he would be reasonable and responsible in his role as the Leader

of the Opposition, and that he would take opportunities to suggest what they

would do if they were ever the government.

Now, Mr. Speaker, the question that I would like to ask is this - the

question I would like to ask, because everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador

knows the answer when I am asked. They say: Would you like to find a way to

develop the Voisey's Bay project so that we can have nickel leave Newfoundland

and Labrador and get on with some economic prosperity?

The answer, when I am asked that question, is: Absolutely yes. We would like

to find a way to do that so we can have nickel leave Newfoundland and Labrador,

and get on with economic development and have some further prosperity for

Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER GRIMES: Would the Leader of the Opposition like to find a way,

would he like for the government to find a way -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. Premier to conclude his answer.

PREMIER GRIMES: - to make sure that nickel leaves Newfoundland and

Labrador so that we can start our project in Voisey's Bay? Or, would he like

for any negotiations to fail utterly and abysmally so that we can have nothing

done? That is the question today, Mr. Speaker!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Do we want something to happen or not? We want to make

something happen, and we will try to do so.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: I will say to the Premier: You will have enough ample

opportunity asking questions in this Legislature in the very near future.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: He reminds me of that sheep that was cloned in England:

Dolly. Yesterday he talked about, in the Throne Speech, that he is going to be

recognized for straight answers and real solutions, and today the clone of the

Premier shows up and will not answer a question.

I will ask him again: On November 19, 1999, six months later, the former

Premier, sitting in that chair, made a response - I will ask him if he is aware

of it - that Inco is coming to recognize there will be no mine/mill development

unless there is 100 per cent processing of concentrate in this Province.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary. I ask him to get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: I will ask you again, Premier: Is that your position?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I do know the position. I do know absolutely the position on which every

single member on this side of the House offered themselves for election in 1999,

which was that we would not enter into an arrangement for a development in

Voisey's Bay unless there was going to be processing to a nickel product in

Newfoundland and Labrador. He read it from the 1999 version of the Red Book, and

that was what was presented to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

That is what we lived with then, that is what we will live with today, and

that is the commitment that we gave to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Elect us - which they did - and we will not do a project unless there is full

development in Newfoundland and Labrador, maximum benefits, and that nickel

leaves the Province.

I hope that my colleague, the Minister of Mines and Energy, has more success

than I did when I was trying to do it, in terms of coming to an arrangement

whereby we can proudly stand up and say to the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador that we have reached our objective, that we have an arrangement whereby

we are going to have nickel leave Newfoundland and Labrador, and we can proceed

with the development and get along with the economic benefits, go ahead with the

economic benefits for everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador. We would be

pleased to present that in all of its detail if our colleague has success on our

behalf.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: The Premier cannot have it coming and going at the same

time. I will ask him this. He talks about the Red Book. Is he aware that during

the 1999 election, when former Premier Tobin opened up the headquarters of the

Member for Gander, about ten days in, when questioned directly about how you

would let ore go out of the Province, this is what a reporter said, and I have

the transcript here: Let me be clear. During the election it is our policy to

have all the ore processed in the Province, but beyond that we are not even

prepared to discuss any alternatives.

Is that the position of your government today, Sir?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

When we were having the debate a year or so ago in this Legislature, and I

stood as the Minister of Mines and Energy, it was quite clear that just as the

Minister of Mines and Energy will stand in this Legislature and give updates as

to progress on the talks - because we hope there is progress. We do not want to

stay here stalled with nothing happening. We want to make progress towards our

objective of maximum benefits, full processing in Newfoundland and Labrador.

When we did talk about how words are important, every single day Hansard will

show that inside this Legislature, and outside in the media, when I was asked

the question, I indicated that what we were going to achieve was full processing

I have been asked many times, what does that mean? What that will mean will

be determined through a round of negotiations and bargaining by the Minister of

Mines and Energy, and we will gladly lay out for the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador what full processing means, because it will meet the commitment of the

1999 election. It will bring maximum benefits for Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians, and it will have a nickel product leave Newfoundland and Labrador

or there will not be a project.

Maybe they will get their wish, because they have their fingers crossed every

single day, frightened to death that we might have some success and we might

actually make this happen. They are over there in fear and trepidation that we

might actually get this done, because they hate to see it done. They do not want

to see it done. Which is why I am asking the Leader of the Opposition: What do

you want to accomplish for Newfoundland and Labrador? Do you want to see the

project go ahead? Do you want to see a nickel product leave Newfoundland and

Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. the Premier to conclude his answer.

PREMIER GRIMES: Do you want maximum benefits for the people, or do you

want it not to happen so that you can go ahead with a political platform and

suggest that maybe something will happen in the future? We will try to make it

happen.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, let there be no doubt what I want. What I want

to accomplish for this Province is to rid this Province of a government that has

not been forthright, that has not been honest, that has not been transparent,

and we are about to do that!

Now, the Premier says: Let it be clear that I said, whenever I spoke - he

talked about full processing. You, Sir, were not the one that received this

mandate. This mandate was received on the premise of, who do you want to

negotiate 100 percent of the ore, all being processed in this Province?

I ask you again, is that your position? Because it was your former, former,

boss's position. Has the position of your government changed? Yes or no? Mr.

Straight Answers and Real Solutions!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will try to restrain and constrain myself - getting a bit carried away at

the issues today.

The Leader of the Opposition, as I just interpreted, clearly just admitted

that he has no interest whatsoever in the development of Voisey's Bay, has no

interest in whether or not any economic development happens in this Province.

His only interest - and we will see it recorded in Hansard tomorrow - is that he

wants to see the government changed. He does not care if anything happens, does

not care if any one thing happens with respect to any development in

Newfoundland and Labrador. His only interest, and he has admitted it in the very

first day in Question Period, is to stand up and repeat over and over again

whatever he has to, in the best interest of trying to get himself and his

colleagues into the government. What happens in between, they could care less.

He admitted it; he said it in his own words. The record will show the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador that his only interest - and I take it he speaks on

behalf of the Official Opposition, all of them. I am not sure if he speaks on

behalf of the Leader of the PC Party, because he is not here. He is not in this

Legislature.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER GRIMES: He is not in this Legislature, and does not want to come

in to this Legislature. He has no interest in coming into this Legislature.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. the Premier to conclude his answer.

PREMIER GRIMES: Just to answer the question, the fact of the matter is

that we, this group here, in case he did not know it -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER GRIMES: - the whole group of us ran in 1999 and we received a

mandate as a team, not one person. It was not a person. It was a team that got

elected in 1999.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. the Premier now to take his seat.

A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the Premier, I am glad he brings up mandate, because this is both an

issue of mandate and of trust. Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are apprehensive

about you and your government's handling in terms of who can make the best

deal. Up until this point, everybody in this Province knew what this government's

stance was. They do not know it today. Eighty per cent or more of the people in

the Province supported that stance. They do not know what it is today. No one

today, except Inco, has any idea where you or the minister stands.

I will ask the Premier: Do you understand the apprehension and suspicion

amongst the public when you start splitting hairs and not providing the straight

answers required in this Legislature? Do you feel at least as much obligation to

them, Sir, as you do to watering down some further commitment about the mandate

you received?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: No, Mr. Speaker, basically everyone understands that

forty-eight people ran in 1999, in an election, and forty-eight people were

elected, not one person. We do not run a system where you elect the President of

the United States on a single ballot - one person. Each one of us - a few

changes since - ran in the election. The Leader of the Opposition accurately

quoted the Liberal Government's commitment to the people of the Province in

1999. It said: Elect us and we will make sure that there is no project unless

nickel leaves Newfoundland and Labrador. I say again, for better and greater

clarity, that has not changed one iota.

The only people splitting hairs and trying to suggest that there is some

difference or confusion, is the Opposition. They have admitted why today:

because they are trying to sow the seeds of doubt and confusion, because they

want that to be the circumstance, because they are only interested in playing

politics with the issue, because the only interest is - he has admitted it today

- to try to take over the government, because he does not want to see - and I am

more convinced then ever that each one of them is over there hoping, every

single day, that we get nothing done because then they want to go to the polls

and say: Look at that crowd; they did not do anything. Elect us, and guess what?

We will do something.

Well, I will tell you one other thing. There is something else we will borrow

from your Blue Book. Your Blue Book says: Elect us and we will do some things.

We will do a Voisey's Bay project if we can meet the standard that was set

forward in 1999, which is to have nickel leave Newfoundland and Labrador, and

maximum benefits for our people.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, he is right, we did produce a Blue Book and

said we would do some things, but what they are really worried and confused

about now is that they got elected and they did it - on our Blue Book!

I will ask him this; I will give him one final opportunity. Everybody

understood in the Throne Speech of 1999 that former Premier Brian Tobin,

speaking for the government, said clearly - I can quote it again but there is no

need to - that Inco has come to understand that 100 per cent of the ore must be

refined here.

Now, at your first press conference updating the Province, you said: We won't

make a deal that cannot be explained.

What kind of a assurance is that? We won't make a deal that cannot be

explained.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary. I ask him to get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: Two years ago it was 100 per cent of the ore or nothing;

today it is: We won't make a deal where it cannot be explained.

Premier, what is it? You cannot have it both ways. What is your position?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just let me state again: available in the public domain in Newfoundland and

Labrador is the actual written statement from the Liberal Party and its

candidates in the Election of 1999. As a matter of fact, I would invite people

to look back to the 1996 Red Book, because almost the exact same words were also

in that particular document.

With respect to the Blue Book and the Red Book, maybe you are starting to

catch on to the strategy over here. Our plan for the election in two years'

time - and I say this in all seriousness - we are going to put together a

proposition whereby we will say to the people of the Province: We are Liberals,

we run on Red Books; however, the Blue Book is all done - we will have done it -

so now you have to elect us so we can get on with doing the Red Book.

That is our plan; we are going to have all of your stuff done. Then we are

going to say: There is no point in electing them because that is all done. Now

you have to elect us so we can do our own stuff.

You are catching on already. Mr. Speaker, they are starting to catch on.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER GRIMES: With respect to this issue, it does not matter how the

question gets asked; it is only important how it gets answered. The commitment

was clear in the 1999 Red Book, in the election, and the commitment - I will say

it every single time - has not changed today and is not going to change with

this government.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are to the Premier. I want to ask the Premier about his

pilgrimage yesterday to the Prime Minister's office in Ottawa. He went up

there to follow up on the federal Liberals promise to stop or reduce resource

clawbacks from equalization payments.

I want to ask the Premier: Will he report to this House how much these

clawbacks are going to be reduced in the next fiscal year, and how much more

resource revenue are we going to be able to keep during the next fiscal year?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I cannot give the specific details of that today; however, I can tell you in

all seriousness that the Prime Minister of the country is quite open and quite

committed to the whole notion that the clawback arrangements should be changed

and that he will take an active role in that. We look forward to positive

developments on that particular issue.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier said he was pleased to report the meeting was a positive one. I

say, God help us if he had to come back and tell us it was a negative one, with

what he came back with.

I want to ask the Premier: Didn't the Prime Minister, didn't the federal

Finance Minister, didn't the Industry Minister, who now doubles, does double

duty as the Prime Minister's bodyguard, didn't they promise in the last

federal election to reduce clawbacks to this Province on our resources?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker, all three politicians just named - and

I have great respect, by the way, for the office of Prime Minister of the

country, and I treat it with great respect. I also have great respect for any

gentlemen, in the election, did indicate that they felt that it was right and

proper and appropriate that provinces like Newfoundland and Labrador, and the

rest of the provinces in Atlantic Canada, should be given an opportunity to keep

more of their own source revenue. That commitment was restated again yesterday

by the Prime Minister of the country, which is why there are a whole group of

different people now that will meet and look at the details of how that will

occur, and when it will occur.

I look forward to progress, positive progress, and a real commitment that

will mean real revenues, money and cash for Newfoundland and Labrador above and

beyond what we receive today. I take it as a commitment that was made during the

election, and a commitment that was reaffirmed yesterday by the Prime Minister.

The details are not worked out; the money is not flowing today. I did not go

yesterday expecting to bring back five cents - not one cent - but I wanted a

reaffirmation of the commitment. It was given, and I expect that we will have

action on that in the foreseeable future and we will gladly report back to the

House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister, you said that you hoped to achieve an 80 per cent recycling rate

within the next year. We conclude that a goal of 80 per cent recovery is an

optimistic target; very unrealistic, Minister. We base this conclusion on the

fact that the highest recovery rates in Canada are in Alberta at 79 per cent;

however, Alberta have higher refunds. In fact, the full deposit is given back as

a refund in Alberta, a system they have had for thirty years. Now, in all

honesty, how do you realistically expect to deliver an 80 per cent rate of

recycling in this Province within the next year?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Environment.

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I realize the situation that my hon. critic finds himself in. I guess the

simple answer to his question is that we would try to make eighty. In fact, we

are going to try to make ninety.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: The Opposition, Mr. Speaker, finds that kind of funny.

I do not, because if we are here as a government then we have an obligation to

try to do the best possible job that we can do, and to present the facts as we

see them, as we have done.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: My information tells me that in Nova Scotia and New

Brunswick they have reached 75 per cent to 80 per cent. Mr. Speaker, if they can

do it in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, there is no reason why we, here in

Newfoundland, cannot do the same thing.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's

South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Minister, I realize the position I am in. I wonder if you

realize the position you are in.

Minister, in Nova Scotia they have supplementary programs. I just quoted from

the Grant Thornton Report, your own department's review of your recycling

program, and in the Grant Thornton Report they clearly outline that only after

three years of a more attractive six cent deposit and five cent refund would

this Province reach 65 per cent recycling.

Now, Minister, you have the facts.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary. I ask him to get to his question.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Minister, I am asking you this: Are you saying you are

right and your own report, your own facts, are wrong? If so, tell us what report

you are basing your responses on.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: First of all, Mr. Speaker, it is not my report. We did

not do the report. It is was a report that was done and presented to the

Multi-Materials Stewardship Board. I still stick behind my statement as to what

has been done in Nova Scotia.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: My hon. critic referred to what is being done in Nova

Scotia. In fact, Mr. Speaker, he has encouraged publicly that we go to the blue

box system here in Newfoundland and Labrador. The actual fact about the blue box

system in Nova Scotia is that it only collects 3.8 per cent of the beverage

containers.

AN HON. MEMBER: Red box.

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: Yes, that is an idea. My colleague is saying that

maybe we should bring in a red box.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: I can understand why they are probably having some

problems with this, Mr. Speaker. This was never in the Blue Book.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister now to conclude his answer.

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, what I am saying is that we, on this side

of the House, are going to try to reach an 80 per cent collection rate on the

beverage containers. If they do not want to do that, then that is up to them.

They are not on this side of the House.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier. I want to refer

him to the report issued by Voisey's Bay Nickel Company in the year 1999, in

February, after the election, indicating that the benefits to this Province of

Newfoundland and Labrador, and taxpayers, would be a total of $417 million,

while the federal taxpayers would receive $4.9 billion in revenues from Voisey's

Bay Nickel.

These are the only numbers that we have seen. Is this the kind of maximum

benefits to Newfoundland and Labrador that the Premier is talking about when he

is talking about the maximum benefits from Voisey's Bay for the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We will maximize the benefits to Newfoundland and Labrador in every way

possible. One way is to maximize the employment opportunities themselves from a

mine/mill operation, from a processing facility, and all of the attendant things

to come with that. Secondly, we will maximize, to the greatest extent we can

under the fiscal regimes that are in place in the country and in the Province at

the time, the revenue streams to the government, the provincial government, so

that we can use those revenues to provide quality services to the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador that they desire, wish, want and hope for from their

government.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, from the tone of the Premier's remarks and

response it seems to him totally acceptable that we have a regime in this

country that gives ten times the benefits to the people of Canada for a

provincial resource, under provincial constitutional values.

Now that the Minister of Finance has been told no by Paul Martin in Halifax,

the Premier was told no before the meeting yesterday, there are to be no changes

before 2004, how can the Premier and this government negotiate a deal on Voisey's

Bay without knowing what the revenues are going to be to this Province, without

knowing what the benefits are going to be? How does he plan to do that? Or is he

just going to be whistling in the dark and hoping there are going to be some

positive changes down the road?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

All of the current rules, regulations and fiscal regimes are well known to

everybody involved: the provincial governments, the federal governments, the

companies themselves. Everyone that is involved knows the current fiscal

regimes. If there are changes, positive changes, which we anticipate with

respect to the clawback issue in particular, which is a big feature of Voisey's

Bay because we stand to generate very significant royalty revenues from the

deposit at Voisey's Bay, and if the clawback arrangement, which is the key to

the whole thing, is altered so that a province like Newfoundland and Labrador

can keep more of its own source revenues, then obviously the numbers that were

in that study a couple of years ago would change significantly.

In any event, while those numbers are fairly accurate for the time they were

put together and reported, the circumstance is that while that cash value is

clearly the number that reflected the circumstance in 1999, the whole

circumstance of whether or not Newfoundland and Labrador was better off and less

whole discussion. We will gladly have, we will absolutely, gladly, look forward

to the day that the Minister of Mines and Energy can stand up and outline a

project with all of the attendant benefits for Newfoundland and Labrador, and

show to people, and demonstrate to people, how we did get maximum benefits for

this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time for Oral Questions has elapsed.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees.

MR. LUSH: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to bring to hon. members'

attention a couple of the rules regarding our Question Period. We have designed

the rules ourselves. This House has designed the rules and there is an onus and

a responsibility on all members to follow the rules. I observed today where a

couple of the rules were broken. I think, as I said, there is an onus and a

responsibility on us all to follow them. I want to remind hon. members of

subsection (4) of our own Question Period, which says: Oral questions must not

be prefaced by the reading of letters, telegrams, newspapers, extracts or

preambles of any kind.

Mr. Speaker, these rules are there for a purpose, to govern the orderly and

smooth flow of Question Period, and hon. members ought to follow them.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. LUSH: I am not finished.

Mr. Speaker, I want to bring to the attention of hon. members one other rule

from Beauchesne, which is 409.(1), talking about the question. It says:

The question must be brief. A long

preamble on a long question takes an unfair

share of time and provokes the same sort of reply.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, it finishes by saying, "A supplementary

question should need no

preamble."

I will leave these thoughts with hon. members and let them inwardly digest

them.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: To the point of order, the hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to respond to the point of order and say that from time to time,

I say to the Government House Leader, we all must be reminded of the Standing

Orders that we govern ourselves. I was perplexed, very perplexed, that the

Government House Leader didn't read on in the Standing Orders, or read on in Beauchesne,

where it talks about responses to questions that are asked in this House -

that they must be brief..

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: From my memory, I bet you it is almost succinct, almost

direct from it, that the answers must be brief, that the answers must be to the

point, and they should not waste the time of this Legislature.

I say to the Speaker, with the utmost respect, when you, as you always do, in

a very impartial way, enforce the rules of this House, while you have had to,

from time to time, enforce them on us, please ensure, Mr. Speaker, that you

apply the rules equally to the ministers and Premier across the way.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: To the point of order, all hon. members know our own

Standing Orders as it pertains to Question Period. Honourable members know that

questions ought to be brief. They also know that responses should be brief as

well. I ask all hon. members, when asking questions and when answering the

questions as well, to keep in mind our own Standing Orders and the guidelines

for Oral Questions as stated in Beauchesne.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Select Committee

appointed to draft a Reply to the Speech of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor,

I am pleased to present the report of the Select Committee as follows: To His

Honour the Lieutenant Governor, the Honourable A.M. House:

May it please Your Honour, we, the Commons of Newfoundland and Labrador, in

legislative session assembled, beg to thank Your Honour for the gracious Speech

which Your Honour has addressed to this House.

On motion, report received.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair would like to table a number of items. First of

all, in accordance with

section 39 of the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary Act,

1992, I hereby table the annual report of the RNC Public Complaints Commission

for the year ending March 31, 2000.

As well, in accordance with

section 32 of the Auditors General's Act, I

hereby tabled the report of the Auditor appointed by the Commission of Internal

Economy to audit the Office of the Auditor General for the fiscal year ending

March 31, 2000.

In accordance with

section 35 of the House of Assembly Act, I hereby table

the annual report of the Commission of Members' Interest for the period April

1, 1999 to March 31, 2000.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow move

that the House approve in general the budgetary policy of the government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I give further notice that I will on

tomorrow move that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on

Supply to consider certain resolutions for the granting of Interim Supply to Her

Majesty, Bill 2.

Further, Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow move that the

House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on Supply to consider certain

resolutions for the granting of Supply to Her Majesty, Bill 3.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I give notice and ask leave of the House to move,

pursuant to Standing Order 65.(1), the appointment of the Striking Committee to

consist of the following: The Member for Conception Bay East & Bell Island,

the hon. Mr. Walsh; the Member for Trinity North, the hon. Mr. Wiseman; the

Member for Ferryland, the hon. Mr. Sullivan; the Member for Bonavista South, the

hon. Mr. Fitzgerald; and the Member for Terra Nova, myself.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

You have heard the motion.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Motion carried.

The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I give notice that I will on tomorrow introduce the following Private Member's

motion:

WHEREAS too often in the past the people of this Province have not received

fair benefits from our resources; and

WHEREAS there are people along the Labrador Coast and in other communities in

Newfoundland and Labrador in desperate need of access to the northern shrimp

resource;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly strongly oppose any

further allocation of the northern shrimp resource to out of the Province

interests.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Waterford Valley.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. H. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition that has been signed by over 500 residents

of Newfoundland and Labrador, and I also note that there are more petitions that

are arriving with the same prayer. It is addressed to the hon. House of Assembly

and it reads as follows:

The petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland, Canada;

WHEREAS the Newfoundland and Labrador Public Libraries Board permits the

viewing of pornographic, violent, degrading behaviours by way of the Internet to

patrons nineteen years of age or over in areas where children are exposed to

unsuitable material; and

WHEREAS we do not wish our tax dollars to be spent in this manner;

THEREFORE we call upon the hon. House of Assembly to request government to

introduce legislation to protect our children from exposure to this material.

Mr. Speaker, I note that this matter has been raised in the public forum by

concerned citizens, and in particular, Mrs. Gwen Andrews. The people who signed

this petition come from all parts of this Province; Chamberlains, Mount Pearl,

Paradise, Port Saunders - just going through here - Howley, Triton, Brighton,

Raleigh and all across this Province.

The people who signed this petition do not want to interfere with the good

work that the Libraries Board is doing in our many communities. However, they

want guidelines established that will prevent our libraries from being used in

inappropriate manners, prevent our children from being potentially exposed to

the violence that is available for them to see by way of the Internet, prevent

them from being exposed to pornographic and other unsuitable literature.

The people who signed this petition think that the government has some

responsibility to give directions to the Libraries Board, to give firm

direction, that makes it impossible for any young children to be able to see

this kind of pornographic and violent behaviour that can be accessed through our

libraries and how (inaudible) it is. They are trying to make it unavailable to

young students and young people but it is possible, in some of our libraries,

for young people to see this kind of material.

Mr. Speaker, I say to the hon. House, parents send their children to the

public libraries for all the right reasons. They should feel comfortable that

their children are in a safe, morally, and conducive environment. They do not

want their children exposed in any way, for any possibility to exist, that they

would be exposed to pornographic, violent or degrading behavior. They are not

against the Internet. The Internet is wonderful, however there needs to be

guidelines established that would make sure that it is used for all the right

reasons and that our young children will not have any potential at all to be

exposed to this kind of behaviour which represents the prayer and plea of the

people of Newfoundland and Labrador who signed this petition. Mr. Speaker, that

there are many more petitions coming because these people want action on this,

and they would like to have it immediately.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of a large number of people from

all over Newfoundland and Labrador. I have to say first of all, that it is

directed to the Premier and all MHAs and not in the usual proper form for this

House, but it is concerning Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro. I would ask that

leave be granted to present the petition to the House.

The petition asks that Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro Corporation reverse

its decision on layoffs and transfers of Hydro employees in rural Newfoundland

and Labrador. This action by Hydro in its future plans for layoffs will have a

severe social and economic impact on our communities.

The Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro Corporation is a public corporation which

has a responsibility to provide a high level of service to all residents of

Newfoundland and Labrador. Although it is primarily involved in generation, it

also distributes electricity in many rural communities in Newfoundland and

Labrador. What they have done by this action is stripped the rural service in

Newfoundland and Labrador. They have applied a different standard for

reliability. They have admitted in public statements and private meetings that

they in fact will be reducing the reliability of their service by removing some

of the people involved here, people who in some cases are laid off, in some

cases transferred out of areas where service is provided. Mostly on the Northern

Peninsula and the Labrador Coast, but also the South Coast and Ramea is being

affected by this.

In Labrador, even though in the Happy Valley-Goose Bay region they have in

excess of $100,000 of overtime being used now by the lines people out of the

Goose Bay region, they are reducing the number of people available, downgrading

the service, and making less service available to rural Newfoundland. This comes

as a great shock to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. The Mayor of

Flowers Cove, and other mayors and municipalities throughout rural Newfoundland,

have urged - along with the members of the IBEW whose individual members are

affected - Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro to change its position. They have

also called on the government, the Minister of Mines and Energy, to direct

Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro to take its responsibility seriously in terms of

the delivery of service to rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

In terms of the issue of safety, which has been raised throughout this, in

the fact that there will be less people available when a pole has to be climbed

and a high voltage of electricity has to dealt with.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, we ask that the minister respond to this

petition and respond to the prayer of the petition.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise to present a petition to the House on behalf of hundreds of people

throughout this Province, and in particular, the people who are affected by

Newfoundland Hydro's recent layoffs and reorganization of staffing throughout

the Island.

To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador in legislative

session convened, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and

Labrador;

WHEREAS Newfoundland Labrador Hydro's decision to layoff and transfer Hydro

employees in rural Newfoundland and Labrador and its future plans for layoffs

will have a severe social and economic impact on our communities; and

WHEREAS your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to

direct Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro to reverse its decision in this regard.

As in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to speak for a few minutes on this and point

out the importance of this issue to all of Newfoundland and, in particular, to

the people of the tip of the Northern Peninsula and The Straits & White Bay

North. You cannot overestimate the impact of losing any number of jobs in a

rural economy, like the tip of the Northern Peninsula, where jobs are already in

short order. You cannot overestimate the serious implications of these cuts on

services to the area. This is an area that is far removed from the Province. It

is very hard to get to in the middle of the winter when trouble is often the

case. That is when trouble comes along, in the middle of the winter. People

cannot be serviced in this area when you have no ground worker drivers and the

staffing is just not there to do the job.

The main thing here is this, as people have pointed out over the past number

of weeks since this decision was made by Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro, this

flies in the face of government's stated policy of using government

departments, government agencies, government personnel and services to stabilize

and generate employment, in some cases, in rural Newfoundland where the areas

are severely economically disadvantaged. At this point, Newfoundland and

Labrador Hydro has completely gone against government's policy here. We have

had no action and no response from the minister to direct Mr. Wells and

Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro to reverse this decision.

On behalf of the people of the Northern Peninsula, rural Newfoundland and

IBEW, I would like to ask the minister to direct Mr. Wells to reverse this

decision, and certainly in addition to this and in conjunction with the layoffs,

to look at the recent transfer of poles by Newtel Communications to Newfoundland

Power in areas like the tip of the Northern Peninsula where Newfoundland Power

does not have a presence -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. TAYLOR: - and if there is a problem in this area we are going to have

to look at - the closest Newfoundland Power crew is in Corner Brook so it should

not take them too long to respond to a broken pole in Raleigh, I would not

expect.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: If Mike O'Brien gets a hold of you, you will be in the

barn, I say to the minister, for a long time too. If he had to get out of the

living room the other evening you would not be here today.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: I am just saying, I am up here on my feet trying to make a

few comments.

AN HON. MEMBER: Tell us a story.

MR. MANNING: No, I can't be at that.

Mr. Speaker, I have known the O'Brien brothers for a good many years. It is

very interesting to see that they are constituents of the hon. member opposite.

As soon as I get on my feet he brings up about the barn. I just want to make a

quick comment back that he will be out in the wood shed when Mike O'Brien gets

a hold of him. It is interesting, but I cannot go into too much detail on that

now.

I am on my feet today in the House -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) gets a hold to him?

MR. MANNING: Mike O'Brien, when he get a hold -

AN HON. MEMBER: I was up to see him last week.

MR. MANNING: No, you didn't see Mike, I say to the minister. You did

not see (inaudible) because if Mike had to see, you would not be here. They had

to keep Mike in behind because I really believe that he wanted to talk to you. I

truly believe he wanted to talk to you but his brother was very astute knowing

that it would not be wise to have Mike out talking to you.

If I could make a few comments, Mr. Speaker. I am going to talk about the O'Briens

later on in regard to the Throne Speech, and believe me, I can tie it in.

I am pleased today to stand in the House of Assembly and make a few comments

on the Speech from the Throne that was brought forward here on Tuesday, March

13. Some people would like to call it the new face of the Liberal government.

This is the new face of the Liberal government. I say to the Minister of

Finance, I know all about his visit the other day. The new face, the new

direction of the Grimes' team. This is it, this is the new face of the Grimes'

team. The straight answers, real solutions.

Today is March 15, the Ides of March, the day the knives are out. This is the

day the knives are usually out. On that side of the House they know all about

the knives after what they went through a couple of weeks ago out at the Glacier

in Mount Pearl. Out at the Glacier in Mount Pearl they know all about the

knives. We will get into that, but there are a couple of members who are not

here today.

I want to take a moment, if I could, to talk about the Throne Speech and look

at the new team, the new face of the Liberal government that is before our eyes

today, and to take a moment to make a few comments on the new team and what has

happened over the past couple weeks as this speech was being put together, the

Speech from the Throne. If I could go back to the formation of this government,

which brought forward this document to us on March 13, I look and the only

difference I see with this book and the one from the last Speech from the Throne

is that it is stapled differently.

I want to make a few comments on what I believe is the new face, what I

believe is reading between the lines of this document that was put forward in

the House of Assembly on March 13, and the new face of this government and what

they are putting forward to the people of this Province. I want to make a few

comments on what we believe, on this side of the House, to be a rendition of the

Blue Book that we put forward in the House of Assembly, but before I do that I

would like to make a comment. I am a little bit confused - maybe if someone had

an opportunity they could - with the seating of the House.

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: I say to the Member from Trinity North, I will get to you in

a minute.

I am a little bit confused on the seating arrangement in the House. I came

down here on March 9 and I was given a seating arrangement. It must have been

put up on my desk. I came down and looked across the House and found the Member

for Humber West right up there in the nosebleed section. Right up in the

nosebleed

section on March 9, according to this document that I have here in

front of me.

The Member for Conception Bay East & Bell Island was down in the front

row. Once again, almost in Cabinet, Mr. Speaker. So close and yet so far away, I

say to the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell Island. You made a mistake

in regard to Cabinet, in who you supported, but you did not make a mistake in

who you supported. I agree 100 per cent there, I say to the Member for

Conception Bay East & Bell Island. It is just that in the overall picture,

what happened. Then after the first ballot, where you went, it caused a whole

lot of problems for you. I understand that. That is why you are back in the

second row now. The Member for Humber West must have called somebody between

March 9 and March 13 because when we came down on March 13 the Member for Humber

West is down in the front row and the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell

Island is up in the back. I would like to know why a comment wasn't made on

the seating arrangement in the Speech from the Throne? You came down and put out

a plan like we have here on March 9, and on March 13 the plan has changed

already. It just goes to show, Mr. Speaker, that the tail is wagging the dog in

this situation and this is a clear example of it right here in front of us.

Mr. Speaker, we look through the Throne Speech and see an announcement that

there is going to be a Child Advocate put in place. A notion that the PC Party,

through the Blue Book, brought forward in the last campaign, a Child Advocate.

Something that is needed in this Province. Something that has been needed for

quite some time. Now we have a situation where a Child Advocate has been brought

forward in the Speech from the Throne, and we wait with anticipation on this

side of the House to see who will - there are two important aspects to this

statement here on page 4 in the Speech from the Throne. The first important

aspect is the fact that we are getting a Child Advocate. We all agree with that.

You will get no argument from this side or, I would say, from any person in the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador that there is a need for a Child Advocate.

The second

part is what concerns us on this side of the House. The second

part of this is: Who is going to be the Child Advocate? There are a couple of

criteria that you need to be, that we see, a Child Advocate. One is that you had

to be a delegate at the convention that was held at the Glacier. That was one of

the things that we seen here, and that is what concerns us. Is one of the

criteria for the Child Advocate - a very important position in this Province -

that you had to be a delegate at the convention at the Glacier? We ask that

question in all honesty because we do not want to see the Child Advocate just to

be somebody that is put in place. We want to see meat put on the bones here, and

we are asking the question: Did you have to be a Liberal delegate at the

convention at the Glacier to be the Child Advocate? Also, we want to know: Is

the Child Advocate going to report to that side of the House or are they going

to report to all of us in the House of Assembly? We hope that it will be a

report to the House of Assembly. That it will be arms length, just like the

Auditor General, and will report to the House of Assembly. Therefore the

confidence is instilled in the office of the Child Advocate by the people in

this House to the people of the Province. If we don't, from day one - and I

say it very sincerely - put a level of confidence in the position of Child

Advocate in this Province, we are failing on day one. I stress to government to

make sure that it is an open process, that it is straight answers and real

solutions when it comes to the Child Advocate and that we have the opportunity

to make sure that it fulfills its role.

Another part of the Throne Speech that I found very interesting was the first

order that was put before the House for this session, the Order of Newfoundland

and Labrador. We will have to wait for the details of the act to find out

exactly what the plans are, but it is certainly something we could live with on

this side of the House, I am sure, if it is something that is real, if it is

something that is concrete, and if it is something that means something. The

Order of Newfoundland and Labrador - I listened the other night to one of the

open-line shows and someone suggested that the first Order of Newfoundland and

Labrador should go out to the fishermen and the people who helped in Pouch Cove

last week. I think that would be a great idea. As the Order of Newfoundland and

Labrador comes forward, we will find out exactly what it means. Certainly the

fishermen and people involved in the rescue attempts in Pouch Cove could be some

of the first candidates for the Order of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I also found in the Speech from the Throne a review of the Freedom of

Information Act. Again, we wait with bated breath on this side of the House for

the new laws, new regulations and reviewed act with regard to the freedom of

information because it has been a circus here for the past several years on the

Freedom of Information Act. What would you need in a circus? You need clowns,

and we have them too. The bottom line is that the Freedom of Information Act has

to be an open document, an open process where we do not have to wait forever to

find information.

Televised proceedings of the House; I look forward to that. We will not be

sitting here with all these empty chairs when the televisions are in here. The

hairdressers will do well when the televisions get here. It is going to be

interesting to see the changes that are going to come here with the fall sitting

when the televisions are here. I can see now that it is going to be an

interesting process.

Another part of the Speech from the Thorne talked about the Provincial Youth

Advisory Committee, another great opportunity to have the youth involved. We

have to concentrate on our youth. We have to concentrate on the people who are

leaving the Province, the young people who are being trained here and leaving

the Province. We have to concentrate on them, and I look forward to seeing that

committee being put in place. Once again, I hope it is not just a committee for

the sake of having a committee, that it is a committee that has meat on the

bones once again.

I find the word action used a fair bit in the Speech from the Throne. I have

been here for several years now and it is the inaction that I am concerned about

more so than the action of the members opposite.

It has been an interesting process over the past couple of weeks to watch

this government be put together, to watch this government come together and put

forward their ideas to the House of Assembly on Tuesday, and indeed to the

Province as a whole.

Certainly there are a lot of concerns and I was very pleased, we were very

pleased, to see a new Department of Labrador & Aboriginal Affairs. A new

Department of Labrador & Aboriginal Affairs is certainly something that we,

on this side of the House, think is a good idea. We are very pleased to see that

the minister of that new department hails from the great land of Labrador and

that, once again, the minister is heading up a new department as he did in his

previous department. We are going to give him time to get things put together in

regard to the new Department of Labrador & Aboriginal Affairs, and we look

forward to the challenges that will be coming with that.

I am sure that the Member for Lake Melville is looking forward to taking on

that new role as the new minister of that new department. Certainly from his

track record of other departments he has been involved in, I would say that he

is not going to ruffle too many feathers in getting it, but hopefully at the end

of the day he will get the job done. He is not a fellow for ruffling too many

feathers. For a giant of a man he is very quiet, but we are sure that his heart

and his soul are in the right place in regard to the new department and we look

forward to his involvement in that.

I watched over the past several weeks as the new government - I call it the

new government, because it is a lot of old faces. I don't say that to the

President of Treasury Board, but certainly a lot of old faces. It definitely is

an opportunity to put some new faces in the Cabinet. I was surprised at a few, I

will be honest with you. I am still reeling from a couple of the appointments. I

have a job to keep the car on the road straight when I hear some of them on the

radio speaking as a Minister of the Crown. I was going to make a comment on one

of the ministers, but he is not here right now so I will wait until he comes

back.

It was interesting to watch the swearing in ceremony down at Government

House. I see that everybody got a clap except the Minister of Tourism, Culture

and Recreation. That was interesting because, when you look back a few days

after at the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, he was not on the

right side out in the Glacier first. Then, when he had a choice to go somewhere

else, he made a step in the right direction. With the closeness of the last

ballot, I think, if nothing else, that the Minister of Tourism, Culture and

Recreation deserved a clap down at the Government House. That was the least they

could do for him, because he brought ten or twelve votes with him, or maybe

more, that helped put the now Premier over the top at the convention, and you

never even gave him a clap. He was never a fellow for making inroads, but I was

surprised that he did not even get a clap down at Government House.

AN HON. MEMBER: Even if they had given him a mild applause.

MR. MANNING: A mild applause. You did not have to jump up and say that it

is great that you are on our side, or we are delighted that you are on our side.

A part that concerned me the most was when the Member for Carbonear-Harbour

Grace - I was expecting the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace to go into

Cabinet, because with the refusal of the Member for Port de Grave to go in, it

is a large area down there and a heavy populace in that area -

MR. H. HODDER: It is the first time in forty years that area has not been

represented in Cabinet.

MR. MANNING: It is the first time in forty years, the Member for

Waterford Valley tells me, that area of the Province, Carbonear-Harbour Grace,

Port de Grave, has not been represented at the Cabinet table. I have to say, we

were very surprised on this side of the House.

Here he comes now. I think we should give the Minister of Tourism, Culture

and Recreation a clap.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: He never got one at Government House, but we gave him a clap

here today, and we are very pleased..

I want to get to the fact that, for the first time in forty years, the area

of Carbonear- Harbour Grace, Port de Grave, is not at the Cabinet table; the

first time in forty years. He did not say anything because he is quite content

up there in the nosebleed section, and that is where he is going to stay.

Then, I looked and the Member for Trinity North did not make it into Cabinet

and I was concerned. I asked myself: Why isn't the Member for Trinity North in

the Cabinet? I know why, Mr. Speaker, because the new Premier could not handle

two wise men in his Cabinet at the one time. He could not handle two wise men.

We all know what one Wiseman has done since he got there. What would two wise

men do? We cannot allow that level of wise men, that level of wisdom, to be in

the new Cabinet. So, we have to keep it at one Wiseman, and we all know his

track record over the past couple of weeks, since he has been in the Cabinet.

All we have to do is drive up to O'Brien's. Here he comes; he is back now.

I asked the question: How come the Member for Trinity North was not in

Cabinet? The only conclusion I could come to was that they could not handle two

wise men in Cabinet at the one time. We all know what one Wiseman has done. We

all know what he has done up on O'Brien's Hill. Two old gentlemen up on O'Brien's

Hill, he was going to charge them $500,000 a day, but he got his reins hauled in

on him there. The Minister of Mines and Energy was up to visit, and he got his

reins hauled in. We all know what he is going to do with recycling, the cash

grab on recycling, and what did he do? He got his reins hauled in again, three

weeks in the job. We, on this side, are waiting to see what you are going to do

next.

AN HON. MEMBER: The flip-flop minister.

MR. MANNING: The flip-flop minister, and you are only there a couple of

weeks. All we can do is stay tuned to that. Stay tuned.

Then, we had the Member for Humber East - where is the Member for Humber East

- who was very disappointed that he was not in Cabinet. We are disappointed on

this side.

The sandbagger cannot be in the Cabinet. We have to be very careful there.

They are not going to give you a chance to sandbag the new Premier. They are not

going to give you a chance, but it is interesting to see that you held on to

your post in the Chair. We look forward over the next several months of you

giving good, solid rulings, and we look forward to your fair and square rulings.

Mr. Speaker, I say to you in all honesty, think how we treat you towards how

they treat you, and I hope that your rulings will reflect that over the next few

days.

It is very interesting how things have been laid out. When I look back at

when the Premier was putting together the Cabinet and trying to put the new face

on his team, we had the former Minister of Fisheries, Mr. Efford, who stood up

and said: no way. Then we had the former Minister of Finance, and Mines and

Energy, Mr. Dicks, who stood up and said: no way. Then we had the former member

for Labrador, the campaign manager for Mr. Efford, stand up, and they told him

to go away. Go away, they told him.

It is interesting to see how it all came to pass. We are very pleased with

some appointments to the Cabinet, we are very concerned about some others, and

over the next couple of months we look forward to the new face of government.

I have to ask, Mr. Speaker: We wonder why the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair was not in Cabinet? We really thought - because when I was here in the

House before, she was on this side; when I was on this side of the House. she

was over here with us, on this side. It wasn't with us, thanks be to God. She

wasn't with us, but she was on this side of the House. Then she went over to

that side of the House, hoping that some day she would make it to Cabinet. In

order to get to Cabinet, you had to deliver your delegates, and Danny delivered

the delegates. Danny delivered twenty-four solid delegates, and that is why the

Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair is up in the nosebleed section, and that

is why she will stay there until the next leadership which won't be too far

down the road.

Mr. Speaker, we are looking forward to the day -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) in Danny's chair.

MR. MANNING: You are in Danny's chair up there and we look forward to

the day when Danny will be back in the House.

Mr. Speaker, if I could get back for a moment -

MS JONES: Which Danny is that?

MS S. OSBORNE: (Inaudible) back in the House.

MR. MANNING: Don't worry! We are not concerned about any Danny; you are

concerned about two of them.

If I could get back, Mr. Speaker, to the Speech from the Throne and the plan

that was put before the House on March 13, it is very interesting.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. MANNING: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Yes.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. MANNING: Mr. Speaker, I have to say that the appointment of the new

Fisheries Minister is welcome news. I can stand up and give credit where credit

is due. You are very lucky your last name is not Wiseman because you wouldn't

have two wise men in the Cabinet. We are very pleased with the appointment of

the Minister of Fisheries. We think it is good news. The man has a history in

the fishing industry, Mr. Speaker, and we are very pleased to see the new

Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture in his place, especially coming from a

district like Twillingate and Fogo which I know is very immersed in the fishing

industry. To have a voice at the Cabinet table, Mr. Speaker, really is welcome

news to that district. I look forward to working with the minister over the next

several months. When we look at an area like that, that is strategic planning to

have a Minister of Fisheries from an area like that.

Then we look at the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace - they forgot about

him. They left him up in the back benches. Forget about Carbonear-Harbour Grace,

forget about Port de Grave - forty years at the table. I can hear them now on

that side: they have enough, boy, they have enough, leave him up there. Mr.

Speaker, they forgot about him; forty years washed down the drain.

Mr. Speaker, it is the first time since Confederation that Corner Brook has

not sat to the Cabinet table. It is the first time since Confederation that the

face of government didn't include the City of Corner Brook. Mr. Speaker, I

think that is a shame; a city like Corner Brook not included with the new face

of government. That is why we cannot understand that, I say to the members

opposite. We cannot understand that.

MR. SWEENEY: (Inaudible)

MR. MANNING: I say to the Member fo r Carbonear-Harbour Grace, I can't

hear you. Say that again.

MS S. OSBORNE: What is your excuse for not being in Cabinet?

MR. MANNING: As I said to the former member for Labrador, Mr. Speaker,

and I will say it to the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace: I will be in

Cabinet before you.

AN HON. MEMBER: Are you coming over?

MR. MANNING: I am going over, but I am bringing a lot with me when I go

over, Mr. Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) step aside for Danny.

MR. MANNING: Don't you worry. We don't have to worry about that. It

is a strange thing, you are all so concerned about Danny. In the month of

January you were all concerned about Danny. It was another Danny, but you were

all concerned about Danny in the month of January. Where is Danny today? What is

Danny calling about today? Who is Danny calling today? Everyone was worried and

concerned about Danny. I sat down, because I am interested in politics and

always have been, and watched the better part of the Liberal convention.

Madam Speaker, it is great to see you back in the Chair. It is great to see

you.

Madam Speaker, I watched the Liberal convention. I used to flick back and

forth to the cartoons. I wasn't sure sometimes which one I was watching, but I

used to get mixed up when I would come back. I remember when the former Minister

of Fisheries went up on the stage for that great handshake at the end. He

thought he was Premier and, I am telling you, there are a lot of you who thought

he was Premier, because the look on your faces, Madam Speaker, going up over

those steps, it was just like someone was after dying belong to you.

AN HON. MEMBER: Did I look happy or was I worried?

MR. MANNING: You weren't as worried as you were on O'Brien's Hill

last week, I tell you that. You were pretty worried, but you weren't as

worried as you were on O'Brien's hill. If Mike had to get out of the room at

you, I am telling you.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: No, Sir. I would say, sit down and I will tell you how

worried you were. If you were not worried, how come you sent an advance man up

there to check out the lay of the land? Don't worry, I have friends. I say to

the Minister of Mines and Energy, if you weren't worried how come you sent an

advance man up there? I would say that Mike O'Brien - it would be worth a

visit.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible)

MR. MANNING: You are laughing. It is going to be interesting to see what

transpires. The Minister of Mines and Energy, whose constituents are the O'Briens,

look forward to them coming to explain their case. From what I can understand

from my sources, their case got a good hearing from the minister. I applaud the

minister on that; I have no problem with that. If the minister could talk to the

minister down there and tell him to leave those two fine, elderly gentlemen

alone on O'Brien's hill, we would all be happier in this Province.

Oh, no, the Minister of Environment had to find someone to pick on - two

weeks on the job, boy, come on. I have to find someone to take on. So I will go

up, two eighty-years-olds on O'Brien's hill, and take them on.

Come on, boy. Wake up, for God's sake. It is a shame on the Minister of

Environment, to do that to these two fine gentlemen, but he got his reins hauled

in.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: See, every time I get up he does that.

MR. MATTHEWS: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MADAM SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Minister of Mines and

Energy.

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

I just want to say to the hon. member that if he has any concern as to the

level of comfort and the level of confidence and the level of being well taken

care of, that the constituents of St. John's North have, he has to look no

further than right under his nose. The hon. the Member for St. John's West,

who is my constituent, I think, is a picture, is a perfect example, of a

constituent who is at peace with herself and is at peace with her member. She

realizes every night when she goes to bed that she can sleep well, that she can

sleep tight, and she knows full well that as a constituent of St. John's North

she is in the best of hands, she will get the best of care, she will be afforded

the greatest of courtesy. What I would ascribe to the hon. the Member of St.

John's West, my very fair and wonderful constituent, I can assure the hon.

member applies to all of the 12,000 members of St. John's North.

The people in the north are in good hands and I would ask the member not to

worry too much with respect to their welfare in the context of the speech that

he is making at the moment. Look no further than under your nose, Sir, and you

will find and see perfect contentment and a well cared for constituent.

MADAM SPEAKER: There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

MR. MANNING: I say to the Minister of Mines and Energy, I am glad, I am

very happy, very pleased, that the Member for St. John's West can sleep at

night, because there was a big concern over whether you could sleep at night a

few weeks ago on that side of the House. If I remember the Premier correctly: I

wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I thought he was advising one of my

ministers.

There is no one on our side of the House, there is no one working up in our

office, that would cause me to lose sleep at night, and that is very comforting.

You had to worry there about sleeping at night. I am sure the Member for St.

John's West can sleep at night.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: I can say one thing about our Danny, Madam Speaker: We want

to have him. You have a Danny and you do not want him, but we want the one we

have.

MR. SWEENEY: We have a choice.

MR. MANNING: You have no choice, not where you sit in the House, I say to

the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace. To sit up in the nosebleed

section and

not to be on your feet demanding that great area of Carbonear-Harbour Grace,

Port de Grave, be represented at the Cabinet table. You have no choice, you have

no voice; you have nothing. You have no right to speak, if you are not going to

stand up and fight for your constituents to have representation at the Cabinet

table.

As I said, Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to see you back in your position.

I am glad that they treated you with the utmost respect on that side of the

House. We are pleased on this side. We have no argument with your appointment to

Deputy Speaker.

I want to get back, if I could, to the Member for John's North, the

Minister of Mines and Energy, and the fact that he is confident that the people

of St. John's North have been treated fair and square. I do not argue that

point, that the people of St. John's North have been treated very fair and

square. What I wanted to highlight here today - they have been treated fair and

square from the Minister of Mines and Energy - what I have proposed here today

is that they were not being treated fair by the Minister of Environment. To go

up and tell two elderly gentlemen on the top of O'Bien's hill that they

might have to pay $500,000 a day because some oil spilled out in their property,

and then to send a backhoe up there, that was on hold for four days before the

Minister of Environment stepped in to do something, to send up a back digger and

to tell them to dig a hole over behind the shed. The minister is the only man in

the world who thinks that oil runs up hill, because behind the shed was up the

hill. The oil came out and went down the hill and he sent the backhoe up to dig

up the hill. Water does not run up hill, and I am sure oil is a heavier

substance and that does not run up hill.

I tell you who should run up the hill, the Minister of Environment himself.

He should go up and see firsthand the problems that are up there, and address

the concerns.

I have to give credit where credit is due. The Minister of Mines and Energy,

the member for that area, the member who represents the O'Brien brothers here

in the House of Assembly, went up to see the O'Brien family. I will give

credit where credit is due, but then there was no choice. The public opinions on

the O'Brien family's side, on the O'Brien brothers side, they had no

choice but to head up the hill, but at least he went up the hill.

AN HON. MEMBER: To fetch a pail of oil.

MR. MANNING: Yes, to fetch a pail of oil. He went up the hill, no more

than what the Minister of Environment did. The Minister of Environment was

there, like I said, three weeks in the job, had to take on somebody. I am fired

up. I know more about this department than anybody else. I am here since 1992.

Do you remember that, out in the lobby the other day? I know all about this

department. I have to find someone to take on. Sure, dodge up O'Brien's hill

and find two eighty-year-old men to take on. Shame on you, I say, Minister. Then

you were sent with your tail between your legs and the O'Brien brothers were

taken care of.

If I could get back for a minute to the Speech from the Throne, to say that

we sat here the other day and we listened to the Speech from the Throne. We sat

and listened to the plans, and we are not one bit impressed. This document - we

wrote more than half of it. We are not impressed that you have taken our

document and rewritten it, changed a few words.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: I say to the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace, if you are

not going to stand up and fight for your seat at the Cabinet table, don't be

talking. It is the first time in forty years you haven't been at the Cabinet

table, so unless you are going to get up and fight for that, stay calm.

All I say is that the Speech from the Throne is something that lays out the

plans for the government. It lays out a framework for the next little while of

what they are going to do, of what they are going to bring forward to this

House, what they are going to bring forward to the people of this Province in

relation to a plan.

While there is some good initiatives in this document, we hope, on this side

of the House, that it is not just words. We hope, on this side of the House,

that a Child Advocate answers to the people of this House of Assembly. We hope,

on this side of the House, that there is meat put on the bones of the Child

Advocate. We hope that the Ombudsman that is appointed, that the criteria is

stringent and is something that we can, as I said, put meat on the bones, that

the Ombudsman answers to the people of this Province. We are not looking forward

to an Ombudsman being appointed here. We are not looking to a Child Advocate

being appointed, that one of the criteria is that they are a Liberal delegate at

the Glacier in January.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: No, I say to the member; that is your way of doing things,

but then you only had a short time up there, and I have to give credit again

where credit is due; you were a good caretaker. As all people who do what they

are told, and do a good job, you will be rewarded. You will be rewarded, and I

look forward to meeting the hon. minister somewhere in a few months down the

road, and saying: Good afternoon, Mr. Senator. I look forward to it, Sir.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: I can see some color instead of red, some other color going

into that House in Ottawa. I look forward to that. I look forward to the member

being put in the (inaudible).

Once again, I have to make a comment. I was very surprised when I turned on

the radio and I found that the Member for Bellevue had finally made it to the

Cabinet table. I was happy that the Member for Bellevue had made it to the

Cabinet table. I was delighted, because I would not want to see anybody spend

thousands of dollars on suits and never get to wear them. The Member for

Bellevue is finally getting to wear his new suits.

AN HON. MEMBER: He is well-suited for the job?

MR. MANNING: I would say that the Member for Bellevue is well-suited for

the job. I was very pleased to hear his announcement because you are well-suited

for the job. You are well-suited, with fifteen suits home in the closet. I

wouldn't say there is anybody else here better suited for the position of

minister than you are. We were pleased to hear it on this side. The people of

Bellevue deserve a voice at the Cabinet table, and we are very pleased to see

you there.

I would say to the Member for Bellevue that you might want to buy a couple of

new ones, because some of those colors were gone out in the 1980s. Some of those

colors went out in the late 1980s.

Madam Speaker, if I could get back to the Speech from the Throne, I look at

the comment made about the fishery and the fact that fish landing in 2000 were

on par with 1999. "In 2000, landed values increased to $585 million, up by

$79 million or 16 per cent from 1999...."

There is no doubt about it that the fishery in this Province is worth more

today in dollars than it was in the past. The problem that we are finding with

the fishery is the amount of land jobs, we will call them, are not there because

of the fact that we have a fair amount of the product, a large amount of the

product, especially in crab and shrimp, being moved out of this Province

unprocessed. As sure as the sun will come up tomorrow, the meat is taken out of

the shell somewhere. They do not eat shell and all, so the meat is taken out of

the shell somewhere. All I am asking is that we take a different approach, that

we look at the possibility of taking some of the meat out of the shell on this

side of the Atlantic, on this side where we would create jobs in this Province,

and hopefully we could address that.

Madam Speaker, also in the Speech from the Thorne there was some discussion

on tourism. Once again, we know we have a growing industry in tourism. We were

pleased on this side of the House, again - I was pleased, I don't know about

everybody else - to see the member for the Stephenville area appointed as the

Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, that department. We were very happy

with it. The fact that the member has been around the House for quite some time,

he brings a fair bit of experience to the Cabinet table, and with a growing

industry like tourism we were very pleased to see the member put forward. What

we were surprised about was that you weren't as excited as we were at

Government House when the member was appointed to his post.

Another concern that was brought forward was in regard to health care. As

usual, health care is always a concern.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: I say to the Member for Bellevue, I won't be in the

backbenches as long as he was. A few moments ago I said I was very pleased that

you are in your new position, and I am. The man has been around the House a long

time, a fair amount of experience. We are very pleased and we look forward to

some new initiatives. We look forward to the member helping the people of the

Province in his new role as Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. We

do not have any problems with that. We have concerns, but we are not as

concerned as we are about the Minister of Environment, but I will get back to

that.

Madam Speaker, if I could make a few comments in my cluing up remarks about

health care. There is no doubt about it, we have said here time and time again,

we have said here as Members of the Opposition, as members of government have

said, that health care is the number one concern. It is the number one concern

with a lot of people in this Province. It is the number one concern with almost

every man, woman and child. I have two aging parents myself. My mother is in the

hospital as I speak here today. There is a concern with health care in this

Province. There is a concern that there are not enough human resources. There is

a concern that there is not enough capital investment. There is a concern that

there is not enough real strategic planning going on with health care in this

Province.

We certainly hope, over the next couple of months, to address some of the

concerns that have been raised with us as Members of the House of Assembly. We

look forward over the next couple of months to addressing some of the concerns

that have been raised with us as the PC Party as we move into a phase of

preparing for the next election.

Madam Speaker, I was very pleased to hear, on community-based health care,

that the Province is looking at some way of increasing the remuneration that

home care workers receive, and we wait again for the details. As the Leader of

the Opposition stated the other day, the devil is in the details, and we wait

for the details of this here, certainly as it relates to home care workers in

the Province and making sure that they receive remuneration for their hard work

and the very vital role they play in the health care system in this Province. We

look forward to the details on that.

Once again, as we clue into the education of our children - the Minister of

Education was on her feet today making some comments and some plans in education

- we look forward, on this side of the House, and the critic for education waits

with bated breath, for the details of what the education plans are for this

Province.

On the last page - and I would like to clue up if I could with this - it

says: ambitious work plan, our hopes, dreams, aspirations are to be fulfilled.

Well, I am very sorry to disappoint you. We, on this side, intend to dash your

dreams and dash your hopes over the next several months. We, on this side,

intend to put a plan forward to the people of this Province, to prepare for the

next provincial election. We, on this side of the House, plan to show that this

is only a reprint, that this is only a by-product of the Blue Book, and over the

next couple of months we intend to put that forward. Over the next couple of

months we plan to take this book and take every other piece of information that

comes before this House of Assembly, go through it and make sure that this

government lives up to straight answers and real solutions.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. MATTHEWS: You have to go over there now. You have to face your

leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Yes, you used to be over here and we threw you out of it, I

say to the Minister of Mines and Energy, and you are not coming back either. You

are allowed to come for a visit. You are on a day pass or a ten or fifteen

minute pass only, sir. Now, do not start me again. I laid it out here one day

when all the real and true Liberals on that side of the House - I was going to

sit down seven or eight times and do you know what they did? They kept saying:

Oh, tell us it all. They really wanted to know all of the history of the

Minister of Mines and Energy. Do not start today. We will have lots of

opportunity over the next several months to deal with it.

Madam Speaker, it is a privilege to stand today to respond to this government

- I should not say this government but the new First Minister, the Premier of

the Province - to his first Throne Speech. No matter what he says, no matter

what he does, no matter what happens in this Legislature - and there was an

example of it today - there is a significant difference between what was said in

this Throne Speech, vis--vis Voisey's Bay, as compared to what was said in

For the record, because this is going to become an evermore important debate,

this government has won two elections, 1996 and 1999, on the promise of

delivering to the people of this Province the right deal, the only deal. I

intend to show, over the course of this sitting - and our homework is done, our

research is done, we have it here - I am going to begin today to show what this

government has said and what they are doing right now.

To start off, let me say this - I want to read for the record, that in the

Throne Speech of March 16, which was four-and-a-half weeks after the 1999

election, then Premier, Brian Tobin, supported by every member, I suppose, at

least publically, on the government benches, had the Lieutenant Governor sit in

the Speaker's Chair of this House and read the following Throne Speech. When

it came to Voisey's Bay, here is what was said. These are the government's

words. This was the government's stand in 1999.

"A loud and clear message has been sent to INCO by the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador: there will be no mine at Voisey's Bay unless the

ore is processed in this Province. That is the choice. It is INCO's to make.

My Government's position - the position of the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador - will not waver."

Today we saw, not a wavering but a significant shift away from that position

and outside in the scrum area with all of the Provincial media asking the

Premier that question, here is what he said outside that he would not say in

here, that he did not have the backbone or the courage to say in here, that what

possibly they could be looking at is an equivalent amount.

AN HON. MEMBER: What!

MR. E. BYRNE: An equivalent amount. That was said today, after question

period, out in the scrum area in front of the cameras.

AN HON. MEMBER: Are you serious?

MR. E. BYRNE: Absolutely serious.

An equivalent amount of ore: now, what does that mean?

MR. SULLIVAN: When did he say that? Today, did he?

MR. E. BYRNE: Absolutely. Fifteen minutes ago in the precincts of the

House, out in front of the cameras. That is what he said.

What does equivalent amount mean? Does it mean that it will come from

somewhere else? Does it mean, the statements of this government, each one of

them to a person over the last two-and-a-half years, that there will be no

semiprocessed or unprocessed material leaving this Province, does it mean that

now it will?

Each one of you, in this House, before this debate is over will be put on the

record, by members here and by myself, on this issue. There is no escaping the

record of the House. There is no escaping the public record, where it has been

defined, where it has been articulated and where it has been annunciated,

particularly by former Premiers, on which this government sought a mandate.

Before I get to that, lets all be clear. In January 1999, this government

lead by former Premier Brian Tobin, went before the microphones in this

building, in their caucus room, and asked one question. He asked it to the

people of the Province. He said: Who is it that you wish to negotiate Voisey's

Bay? Who is it that you wish to negotiate on the Lower Churchill negotiations?

Is it me or is it the Leader of the Progressive Conservative Party or the leader

of the New Democratic Party of Newfoundland and Labrador? That is the question

that he asked.

During the course of that campaign, Madam Speaker, I traveled the Province. I

was in thirty three or thirty four districts in twenty one days and during the

course of that campaign, about half way through, here is what happened. I know

it happened because I caused it to happen. At the opening of the Member for

Gander's headquarters - the Premier was there, I think he made six or seven

visits there - but at the opening of her headquarters, the official opening, he

was asked the following. I will read it verbatim. These are not my words, these

are not paraphrasing of what happened. This is the official transcript of what

took place during that time.

"There are more indications the provincial government is softening its

stance on Voisey's Bay." This is from a CKXD Radio(Kixx-Country, Gander)

"In a recent interview with CBC television, mines minister Roger Grimes

said government would allow some of the ore to be processed outside of the

Province if Inco met certain conditions." He basically said the same thing

outside the Legislature today.

"Grimes says the public may see it as a major policy change but

suggested that the "no smelter/ no mine" stance didn't necessarily

mean that "every spoonful" of nickel concentrate from Voisey's Bay

would be processed in the Province."

MR. J. BYRNE: That is when he started to change the policy. That is when

he started.

MR. E. BYRNE: It began then.

I have a chronology of events of every public statement made inside this

Legislature, made outside this Legislature, by each and every member in this

House. Anyone of you who have made a statement on it, we have it. This is some

of the public material, backup material. We do not have access to all of it, but

what we do.

Let's recap for a second. Roger Grimes said it did not necessarily mean

that every spoonful of nickle concentrate from Voisey's Bay would be processed

in the Province. Here is where it gets really interesting, I say to my hon.

colleagues:

But when asked the question by KIXX-Country reporter Dave Brophy during the

last election campaign, that wasn't the answer given by Newfoundland Premier

Brian Tobin. That was not the answer, I say to the member, my colleague.

I will read it to you, because I know the member for Bell Island engaged you.

Forget about him for a moment. This is very important:

But when asked the question by reporter Dave Brophy during the last election

campaign, that was not the answer given by Newfoundland Premier Brian Tobin.

Here was the question, at the Member for Gander's headquarters. David

Brophy says: You have consistently said, Premier, that `no smelter, no mine at

Voisey's Bay'. But you haven't said whether or not the amount of ore to be

processed in the Province is on the negotiating table. Is it the government's

policy - he asked directly - to have all of Voisey's Bay ore processed here,

or is it government's policy to allow some of it to be shipped...?

He couldn't even get the word out before the then Premier interrupted and

said: Hold it, hold on now, let's be clear Mr. Brophy. It is our policy to

have all of the ore processed in the Province. But beyond that, we're not even

prepared to discuss any alternatives or options with Inco or with anybody else

til first of all Inco moves formally away from the position that they took on

this earlier this year - last year, in fact - when they said that their position

was for a project that would see a mine-mill in Labrador and the ore shipped

entirely out of the Province.

Tobin made the comments in January at the official opening of Gander MHA

Sandra Kelly's campaign headquarters.

During the leadership, during the leader's debate during that election,

this issue raised itself yet again. The then Premier of the Province was

unequivocally clear then: there will be no mine, no smelter in this Province,

none whatsoever.

MR. J. BYRNE: Who said that?

MR. E. BYRNE: Premier Brian Tobin speaking for the government.

I will say this, that there are at least nine or ten members that sit on that

side of the House today for one reason only, because of the coat tails of one

Brian Tobin. If it wasn't for him they would not be sitting in this House.

That would normally be enough evidence, but there is a lot more. There is

quite a bit more, and I am going to get to the chronology of events surrounding

Voisey's Bay and how this government has willfully won two elections,

knowingly doing something behind the backs of the people of the Province, saying

one thing publicly. The Premier said yesterday, he gave his definition of what

it means to be Liberal. I have come to realize what that definition is because I

have seen it, I have debated it, front and center. It is to say whatever needs

to be said at the time to ensure that you get the maximum amount of votes, and

then when you gain power, do what you have to do even if it is something

completely different. That is the history federally and provincially.

Let me get back to it. That would normally be enough evidence, I say. Now, on

March 19, when that Throne Speech was given, the issue began to rai