April

7, 2009

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLVI No. 8

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order please!

Admit strangers.

Statements by Members

The following members' statements will be heard: the hon. the Member for

the District of Cape St. Francis; the hon. the Member for the District of Mount

Pearl North; the hon. the Member for the District of Port au Port.

The hon. the Member for the District of Cape St. Francis.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KEVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to recognize the Northeast Eagles Pee Wee (

B) hockey team and their coaches for winning the Neil Maynard Memorial Hockey

Tournament.

Teams from Fogo, Mount Pearl, Bay Roberts, Gander, Goulds, Bonavista,

Conception Bay South, Harbour Grace, and St. John's all competed.

There were two winners, and I would also like to congratulate the Cee Bee's

team from Harbour Grace for winning the A Division.

This tournament is the fifth annual Neil Maynard Memorial Tournament but it

is the first one that was held in our new arena, the Jack Byrne Arena. Neil

Maynard was a Grade 6 student who attended St. Agnes School in Pouch Cove. He

was a young hockey player who loved the game of hockey. He played for the Pouch

Cove Minor Hockey Association since the age of four. Sadly, in January of 1991,

Neil died suddenly with a brain tumour. Each year the Northeast Minor Hockey

Association presents an award for the most dedicated player in all divisions. It

is called the Neil Maynard Award.

Each year this tournament raises money for charity. The Maynard Family chose

two charities this year. They were the Janeway Foundation and the Children's

Wish Foundation. These charities will receive over $3,000.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in

congratulating the Northeast Eagles B team and their coaches, Carl Doyle, Jay

Burton, Bill Murphy, and Manager Cathy Doyle for a very successful tournament.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate and recognize an individual

who has spent his life contributing to the growth and development of Mount

Pearl. Mr. G. Fred G. Bannister celebrated his ninetieth birthday on November 19

of last year.

I have known Mr. Bannister for many years. He is also well known to many

residents in Mount Pearl. Fred has been a long time volunteer in the community

and has served as a municipal councillor. He is a veteran and still actively

participates in events at the Royal Canadian Legion in Mount Pearl. The Scouting

movement in Mount Pearl can also find roots with Mr. Bannister. He often tells

me that it was he who first introduced Scouting to Mount Pearl and it has been

going strong ever since. Fred was also the first chairperson of the Mount Pearl's

Seniors Independence Group.

Mr. Speaker, it pleases me to honour Mr. G. Fred G. Bannister and his

lifelong commitment to Mount Pearl and its residents. To this day, Mr. Bannister

is still active and serves on the board for Parkdale Manor as treasurer. The

word retirement does not seem to be in Fred's vocabulary. He remains as active

and busy as one can be. I can only hope that I will be as active as Fred when I

reach my ninetieth year.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join me in congratulating Mr.

G. Fred G. Bannister on celebrating his ninetieth birthday and wish him

happiness and good health as he approaches his ninety-first birthday.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port au Port.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. CORNECT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate Leah Burt of

Stephenville, on being awarded the prestigious Heaslip Scholarship from Memorial

University. This scholarship is funded by the William and Nona Heaslip

Foundation and is the largest scholarship available to Memorial University

undergraduates. It is valued at $45,000 over a three year period.

Leah is an ambitious individual. While attending Stephenville High School she

was involved in jazz band and concert band and was a member of the graduation

committee. She graduated from Stephenville High School in June, 2007 and was

awarded the Governor General's Award for Academic Excellence. Leah has taken

on the formidable task of completing a double major in Political Science and

French while attending Memorial University. Upon graduation, she plans to

continue her studies at Dalhousie University where she will attend law school to

study environmental law.

Leah is a young person who has seized the opportunities before her. She is

making a bright future for herself through her determination, discipline and

work ethic.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members of this hon. House of Assembly to join me

in congratulating Leah Burt on being awarded the Heaslip scholarship and on

being an exemplary youth who is an inspiration to us all.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and

Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to deliver some

very good news provided to me this morning by the Workplace Health, Safety and

Compensation Commission. It is that in 2008, workplace injuries continued to

decline in Newfoundland and Labrador by 7 per cent.

Mr. Speaker, this is a remarkable achievement, especially when you consider

that this has occurred over a time when employment in Newfoundland and Labrador

grew by more than 22,000 workers.

Since 2000, Mr. Speaker, on-the-job injuries have decreased in Newfoundland

and Labrador by an incredible 38 per cent. This great improvement is the result

of sustained efforts by employers, unions and workers to make workplaces safer

throughout this Province.

Mr. Speaker, while this is excellent news, unfortunately, serious workplace

injuries and fatalities still occur. Safety must continue to be a number one

priority in our workplaces. Work related injuries and illnesses can and must be

prevented.

Mr. Speaker, preventing injuries in our workplaces is everyone's

responsibility. The Workplace Health, Safety and Compensation Commission

continues to foster a commitment to workplace health and safety by: promoting

public awareness of workplace health and safety issues; educating employers,

workers and others about workplace health and safety; providing services to

health and safety committees and representatives; taking the lead in health and

safety certification by setting standards under the Occupational Health and

Safety Act; promoting funding for workplace health and safety research; and

partnering with industry associations, government departments, unions and health

and safety coalitions across the Province to reduce workplace injuries and

diseases.

Again, Mr. Speaker, I would like to applaud the continued efforts that have

resulted in the decrease in workplace injuries announced today. Let's all work

together to ensure this positive trend continues in 2009.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to thank the minister for the advanced copy of her statement, and to

say, no doubt it is a good news story, to know that the numbers of injuries

through the workplace is declining in our Province. I have to say, I guess it is

due to the tremendous amount of work that is done by employers, unions and

workers collectively, working along with the commission and with government with

the various educational programs.

It is good to see that this is continuing, but, as I said in the Estimates

yesterday morning, and I will say it again now, there is still a tremendous

amount of work that has to be done with regard to the attitude of the Commission

toward injured workers.

There is not one person in this Province who is listed as an injured worker,

who went out on a job site and became injured to receive benefits. The attitude,

sometimes, that I encounter, and others encounter, during the appeal process is

something that the Commission has to work on. They have committed to do that,

and I applaud the minister and the Commission for the tremendous amount of work

they are doing on this level, and hopefully they will continue on in the other

sphere in the future.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, thank the minister for her advance copy of the statement with the

recent statistics from the Workplace Health, Safety and Compensation Commission;

and I, too, congratulate all the workplaces who have endeavoured to make their

workplaces safer.

I congratulate the workers and their unions, where they have unions. It seems

there have been some good results, but I think it would be remiss of me not to

mention safety in the offshore.

None of us can ignore the recent news concerning the Sikorsky helicopters,

and with so many workers in the offshore government must be proactive on the

issue of offshore safety.

I think there would be a number of departments in government who would be

concerned about offshore; some from the side of development, some from the side

of workers and safety. I encourage all government departments who deal with

issues related to the offshore to work together with stakeholders involved in

the offshore industry to ensure that all aspects of this work are as safe as

possible.

With approximately 1,000 workers going back and forth to the rigs over a

year, and on a daily basis so many going back and forth, we must do everything

we can for them to feel safe. Recent reports in The Telegram , as of

today, indicate how workers are feeling quite unsure and unsafe.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Business.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Williams government announced in Budget 2009, a new program

to support the development of Newfoundland and Labrador's aerospace and

defence industry. I rise today to highlight this program for the benefit of

members of this hon. House, as well as the Province's business community.

With an investment of $5 million over two years, the new Aerospace and

Defence Development Fund will facilitate the growth of the industry in this

Province by supporting opportunities that will enhance sector capabilities,

build capacity, attract investment and industrial benefits, and bring new

expertise and business activity to Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, there is a growing network of knowledge-intensive companies and

organizations in our Province that are active in a range of unique advanced

aerospace and defence related activities that extend to global markets. They are

engaged in Research and Development, and a variety of products, services and

activities, including manufacturing and assembly of aircraft components;

maintenance, repair and overhaul; navigation and communications systems;

aircraft modification; oceans-related defence technology; and flight training.

Complementing this expertise are other attributes that make the Province

attractive from an aerospace and defence standpoint. These include our strategic

location, modern infrastructure including our airports and ports, Research and

Development capabilities, the development of emerging technologies in unmanned

vehicle systems, as well as available labour and education and training

programs.

Mr. Speaker, it has been estimated the aerospace and defence industry in

Newfoundland and Labrador employs well over 1,000 people and generates an

estimated $150 million in annual corporate sales and service contracts. Our

government believes in the industry and its potential for further growth. More

funding available to local companies will help leverage additional capital to

build capacity and infrastructure, which will in turn position the industry to

attract other investment and capitalize on its potential growth.

We will continue to work in close collaboration with sector players and the

Aerospace and Defence Industry Association of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Actually, Mr. Speaker, there are representatives here in the House today. We

welcome them. I also understand they will soon be organizing for a delegation to

attend next month's CANSEC, which is the country's main national defence and

security technology forum of the year.

Mr. Speaker, there is already a very strong foundation on which to build, and

I am pleased that government is able to play a role, through the Aerospace and

Defence Development Fund, to position the Province for future growth and success

in this area.

Together, we will actively seek out and support new opportunities that will

advance the development of this dynamic industry in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate being provided with an advance copy of the minister's

statement. We always know him as the minister of red tape. It is good to see we

are on a different track here today.

Anyone who has been watching in the Province knows that we have had some six

years now with the Department of Business, and it is good to see that we are

finally getting some traction, albeit it was budgeted for about six years. It

was the Premier's pet project to have a Department of Business. We went

through five years of budgeting, but with no expenditures whatsoever in terms of

investment, so it is good to see that we are finally starting to get some

traction.

I do believe the first thing we had by way of aerospace industry in the

Province was the Gander bonding and composites company that was started back on

a Liberal Administration by Premier Tobin in 2000, and we hooked the contract

with Sikorsky back then. That is where the Province got its start, and it is

nice to see that the government is indeed making funding available so that

people involved in this sector - $150 million a year to this economy is nothing

to sneeze at. I say to the minister, it is good to see that we finally got some

traction, that we have created a fund, and whatever we can do to enhance upon

and attract those businesses to this Province, so be it, you should do it. It is

very important, particularly in these times of economic downtown globally.

Anything that we can do as Province, of course, to better ourselves financially

and economically, we need to do that; so, we would certainly applaud the

program.

Unfortunately, I guess we will not get our water bomber piece being

constructed here, given the other minister's announcement today, but maybe

some day we will get advanced to the state where we can actually see that type

of industry here as well.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the minister

for the advance copy of his statement.

I do find the statement very interesting. I have to admit that I do not have

much knowledge of the aerospace and defence industry in the Province, and

welcome the statement with the minister giving us the information that is here.

I would be interested, though, if the minister could give us in the House a list

of corporations that are involved in the industry, and some kind of a breakdown

of the 1,000 people who do work in the industry. I think that would be very

helpful information for us to have here in the House of Assembly.

I am glad to see that money is going into the fund to help with an industry

that is rooted here, and I look forward to learning more from the minister about

new industries and new investments coming in to the Province because, I have to

admit, we have not seen much of that yet, Minister, so I look forward to the day

when I see some of that.

Thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it was revealed yesterday that Eastern Health had an update on

the additional number of patients affected by faulty breast cancer testing since

March 26 of this year; yet, they did not release the information until April 3.

The minister says that he was told on April 1, and he introduced it to Cabinet

the next day.

I ask the minister: Why did Eastern Health wait so long to bring the

information to your attention, and why did it have to go through Cabinet before

direction was given to disclose it?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: As a minister, any time there is a significant event in my

department, or any minister's department, that affects the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador, it is a natural process to update my Cabinet

colleagues.

On Wednesday afternoon, I had a meeting with the Centre for Health

Information and they gave me an update as to the progress they had made on doing

that database search that we had talked about earlier. That was late last

Wednesday afternoon. As of normal course, we had a Cabinet meeting on Thursday

morning and I shared with my colleagues. Then, following Cabinet, I had a

discussion with Eastern Health, and officials of my department had a discussion

with Eastern Health, about moving forward and providing a full public disclosure

of the information that they had at that particular point.

We knew it was information that was being updated over a period of time, and

the new updates would come. We felt it was important to provide an update on

what information was known at that point, and, as new information becomes

available, then that too will be made available in the public way.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Cameron Inquiry certainly highlighted the importance of releasing

information in a timely manner, and communicating it effectively to the public.

I guess our concern was the fact that they had this information for a week or

more before they actually disclosed it in any way, even to the patients, who, as

we know, were only contacted within hours of the information being released

publicly.

The decision to vet this through Cabinet, is this a new process that is now

being developed within government, that all disclosure at Eastern Health around

critical information must first be approved by Cabinet before it is launched to

the public?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: There is no vetting necessary through Cabinet. If there is

an issue that needs to be disclosed in the public domain, it doesn't need to

be vetted through Cabinet.

What I was explaining to the member opposite a second ago was that on late

Wednesday afternoon I had a full briefing from the Centre for Health

information. The next day, as a normal process, we were having a Cabinet

meeting, so that was my next opportunity to be with my colleagues. So, I shared

the information with them that I had learned the evening before, and was now

providing an update. It was not a vetting process. It wasn't an approval

process. It was a natural part of my responsibility as a minister, as with other

ministers, to share with Cabinet issues that are of significant public

importance as part of an update that we would provide to our colleagues. I say,

that was the issue, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, after the release of the Cameron report, the

minister himself touted that there had been improvements made within the system.

In fact, he said many of the recommendations have already been acted upon. I

find it really hard to trust those statements, when we have evidence like we did

in Colleen Whitehorne's case where a lady waited up to seven months to get her

diagnosis because it was lost in a paper trail in the system, and looking at

what happened on Friday with the disclosure of information.

I ask the minister: In light of those recent events, where is the evidence

that communications and protocols are being put in place and being followed

within Eastern Health?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: If I could, Mr. Speaker, I will provide an update to the

member opposite and to the House.

Since Friday, this past weekend, the board chair of Eastern Health and myself

have had numerous discussions around this issue and what happened on Friday, and

I shared my comments in this House yesterday in terms of my feelings with

respect to that issue on Friday.

What has now taken place is that we have now arranged a meeting for early

next week with the senior officials from Eastern Health and officials from my

department to start a process to map out very clearly, so there is nothing

ambiguous about a process of disclosure in the future and how that might work,

how the patient disclosure differentiates from a public disclosure and when

those events should occur. There is a U.S. firm, an institute for health care

communication has been engaged to come in and do some work with Eastern Health,

and the other three authorities, I say, Mr. Speaker, on disclosure of adverse

health events and the education around how you go about doing that and training

for the people who will be doing that.

So those things will be starting, I say, Mr. Speaker. Next week, as I have

said a moment ago, officials in my department, together with myself, I

personally will be engaged in this process to start mapping out very clearly how

Eastern Health and the other four authorities will deal with public disclosure

in the future. This education for the people who will be involved in that

disclosure will be carried out by this institute for health care communication,

a U.S.-based non-profit organization.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I just cannot believe what I am hearing. The

minister is in the House of Assembly today telling me that only since Friday has

he had discussions with the chair of the board around what kind of information

sessions, what process of disclosure that will be used in Eastern Health to

divulge information around adverse health effects.

Minister, you fired the CEO of Eastern Health well over a year-and-a-half ago

because of the way things were being handled inside of that board. Why haven't

these things been dealt with in advance of what happened on Friday?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: You should not be surprised, Mr. Speaker. What I have said

in this House before is that many of those recommendations of the Cameron report

and the adverse health events have been implemented.

My understanding was, from the information that I was getting from the health

authorities, is that they were proceeding along those lines. Obviously, what we

witnessed on Friday was an event that I am not prepared to accept ever again and

I am personally becoming involved in this issue and early next week to deal

personally with the officials of Eastern Health; be engaged in a process with

Eastern Health officials and officials of my department to map this out in a

very clear and unambiguous way so that we do not end up with a recurrence of

last Friday. That is why we are bringing in some outside resources to provide

the necessary education to those individuals who will be dealing with the

disclosure thing.

Basically, Mr. Speaker, we have said clearly in this House and as the

government we are committed to ensure that there is clear and open communication

and good patient and public disclosure of adverse health events in the system.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I just find it really hard to accept because this

is a minister who was led by Eastern Health before, who, in fact, disclosed

false information to this House of Assembly that was provided to you by this

corporation and went unchecked. Again, you are telling me today you thought they

were putting a process in place, but you failed to check to see if that process

was there or if it was working.

Minister, do you consider that you are doing your job appropriately?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, as a minister, and as a department, we will

make sure that processes are in place, but what I cannot I have no control

over, is when individuals, on an individual incident, make a decision. That is a

personal judgement call on an individual's part; that I have no control over.

The people who made that decision to disclose that information in that fashion

and not be available for consultation and discussion and not respond to

questions, I have no control of that person's decision that afternoon.

What I want to make sure, Mr. Speaker, that is why I am using the word

unequivocal, next week when we map out a process it will be absolutely and

abundantly clear, no one will have to make a discretionary call from here on in

because it will be clearly mapped out, and no one will have the ability to make

that judgement call to do or not to do because it will be mapped out for them

very clear.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Those kinds of processes I do have some control over, but

individual judgements, when people make the wrong decisions, I cannot be in

their heads. I cannot direct them and guide them on every single decision that

they make.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Every time that there are issues around this file raised in the public the

government has a tendency to push it off on Eastern Health, on the people that

work within Eastern Health. Mr. Speaker, it is the obligation of government to

ensure that these processes are working.

I ask, minister: Why are you not following up? We have had a public inquiry;

we have had 470 pages of recommendations and documentation on this issue alone.

Why are you and your department not practicing proper follow up on this issue?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, what I find amazing is the member opposite

stands in this House and asks questions about what government does or does not

do. She always references the Cameron inquiry. Let me remind the member opposite

that the issues around Cameron were issues dealing with a lab service that

occurred between 1997 and 2005. In 1997-2003, guess who was in charge? The

members opposite were in government at that time, and the member who is standing

on her feet today was a part of the Department of Health and Community Services

at that time. My question can easily be: Why did you not take some action?

Mr. Speaker, the real answer to that question is that there is an issue of

reasonableness here. What is the role of the government, what is the role of the

health authority, and what should they do?

If you look at Hansard, Mr. Speaker this is ironic, if you read from

Hansard, because Hansard records what people say in this House.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister to conclude his response.

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The member opposite, if you look at November 1999, if you look at Hansard, it

was the person who is now providing advice to her on health issues who was the

minister at that time, who said, she cannot babysit health authorities. It is

their role to manage the system, and they take their direction from the

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, the minister says he cannot control the individual

judgement of workers within Eastern Health.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister: Have you identified who made

the judgements on Friday, and has the shot yet been fired across their bow, as

the Premier indicated yesterday?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I need to understand what goes wrong so we can

find a remedy. What I shared with you a moment ago are steps that we are taking

immediately to provide a remedy so that in future we do not leave it to

individual discretion and judgement calls by individuals, or groups of

individuals, to make a decision not to do, or to do something that we clearly,

clearly, have said as a government it is our desire, our wish, our clear

direction, to make sure that there is full patient and public disclosure in a

timely fashion.

That direction has been clear, and what I want to make sure is, not so much

the blame issue but clearly understanding what went wrong. What went wrong here

is that individuals made poor decisions, individuals made the poor judgement

call and did something that was totally inappropriate on Friday afternoon.

I am saying, Mr. Speaker, we are going to put in place a process to eliminate

that discretionary decision making by people who are put in that position, so it

does not happen again.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have to chuckle, because you talk about the blame issue. The direct quote

from the Premier yesterday, said "They should be shot over there."

That was the quote, if you want to get into blame, and where to blame, and who

is placing blame here.

I ask the Premier today: Are you prepared to start with this tough discipline

and those tough statements right inside your own government, and in your own

department, as opposed to just Eastern Health?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, this is a significant issue. Any time we have

problems in our health system, any time we have issues in our system that affect

people's lives, and the quality of their lives or the outcomes of the

treatment that they get, is a significant issue. For the member opposite to

stand in this House and try to play some cheap political games with this process

and this is not the first time this has happened around this whole issue.

This is not the whole issue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I ask the member opposite

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask members for their co-operation.

The Chair has recognized the hon. the Minister of Health and Community

Services.

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, this is an important issue. It is important to the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador, and I ask the member opposite not to try to play

cheap political games with her cute questions in this issue. We are trying to

solve a problem. We are trying to get to the root of the issue here, and to make

sure that the people of Newfoundland and Labrador have the kind of health

service they deserve and require, and they get the protection that they need

from the system and the people who provide those services, I say, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The only thing cheap about this issue, Minister, is your lack of follow-up in

ensuring that the protocols are in place and the system is being run.

If you want to talk about quality of health care in people's lives, let's

talk about the people who are impacted by HIV and AIDS in this Province, who

have learned today that the only nurse practitioner left working in that clinic

has just resigned her position.

I ask you, Minister: Where are these patients supposed to turn to today?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I was aware that the nurse that you are

referring to has been off on an extended sick leave. My understanding, and the

most recent information I had, was that she was going to be returning some time

around the middle of April.

If the member opposite has some information about her recent resignation,

then I will commit to investigate in terms of that particular resignation and

what plans are in place, actually, to provide a replacement for her, but the

most current information I had was that the individual was going to be on a sick

leave and returning around the middle of April, I say, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I was just notified prior to coming to the House of Assembly that the

individual had resigned. We know that this individual had been off on leave for

an extended period of time, and in the absence of no infectious control doctor

in the Province, this nurse has gone into that clinic and filled prescriptions

for people who are suffering from HIV and AIDS in the Province. So today, Mr.

Speaker, they are wondering what will be the alternative for them and where do

they turn to now to get those prescriptions and to get the treatment they need?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: I understood that Eastern Health had made arrangements as an

alternate plan while that individual was on sick leave and pending to come back

around the middle of April. I will undertake to find out what the new plan will

be, now that the member opposite has become aware that the resignation was

tendered this morning.

What is interesting, Mr. Speaker, I made a comment earlier about her

predecessor who made comments in this House. It was around a staffing issue that

the member opposite made that comment about the ministers not knowing,

necessarily, the staffing plans for each health authority. That is not something

that I would ordinarily know, but in terms of the programs and services that

Eastern Health provide I am certain that they will make a commitment to provide

some kind of continuity.

One of the things I want to point out in respect to the HIV/AIDS clinic is

that there has been a mistaken notion that there are no services available to

those patients at all. That is not true. That service is being covered off by a

number of internal medicine specialists supported by members of the clinic,

including the nurse in question. I say, Mr. Speaker -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just for the minister's clarification, I had an e-mail notification before

I came to the House. If you did not get it in your department, I would be happy

to just send it to you.

Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development. Yesterday, I raised in the House of Assembly the case of former

Abitibi employees who are caught between Nalcor and AbitibiBowater right now.

They do not know who is going to provide their severance, or who is going to

provide their holiday pay, and government has been able to shed very little

light on the situation. These people are looking for a commitment.

I ask the minister today: You talked about an investigation. What is being

done as part of this investigation, and what is the resolution that government

is prepared to provide?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, in response to the Leader of the Opposition, I will say to her

today that there have been extensive consultations with both unions representing

the workers affected: the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers and

the Communications, Energy & Paperworkers Union. In those consultations that

we had, in those discussions that we had with them prior to the members of their

unions receiving their bumping notices, they understood that they would be

bumped out of their jobs by more senior employees of AbitibiBowater. They were

issued their bumping notices by AbitibiBowater and it is our position, Nalcor's

position, and the position of the union that represents these members, that it

is AbitibiBowater that owes them the benefits that are due to them.

There is a process in place for the contractual arrangements for a grievance

to be initiated. That grievance procedure has been initiated and an arbitrator

will be put in place to judge that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I cannot believe this.

Your government went in and expropriated the power generation assets of

Abitibi. When you expropriated those assets you must have looked at what

liabilities that you were expropriating as well, one of those liabilities being

the severance of these twenty-two employees that are impacted.

So, I ask you today, minister: Why did you not negotiate under the

expropriation of this asset, a contract that would provide for the protection of

benefits for these workers that are impacted?

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, there was no need to negotiate any severance benefits to be paid

by Nalcor by the provincial government because during the discussions that were

held with the union it was very obvious that the obligation related to

AbitibiBowater. That obligation is in concurrence with the union, it rests with

AbitibiBowater. They have made a heartless decision, in my opinion, to indicate

to these employees that they will not be following through on their obligations.

We have processes in place to deal with that. We will follow through in the

process and the arbitrator will make their determination.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, every time you ask this government a question in

which they should be owning up to the responsibility they want to pass the buck.

Today they want to pass the buck to Abitibi or to the union on these twenty-two

workers that could lose their severance pay.

I say to you minister: What are you going to do after the fact? Because,

obviously, you did not do it in your haste to move in and expropriate the

assets, called the big press conferences, take over the ownership, you failed to

provide for the workers.

I ask you: What is government and Nalcor going to do to ensure that these

workers get the benefits that are owed them, because the company says it is not

on, they now work for you?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, there is no need for the Opposition Leader to yell at me. I can

hear her quite normally, and I will be happy to respond to her without her

yelling at me.

Mr. Speaker, in the negotiations that we had with AbitibiBowater, as I have

already indicated, we did engage with negotiations with the unions representing

these employees. The concerns of the employees were our concerns; they were the

concerns of their union leadership. In the negotiations that we had it was quite

rightly felt that the obligations related to AbitibiBowater. Our obligations, as

Nalcor, were to ensure that we had staff in place to operate the hydroelectric

facility. We did that in consultation with the unions. We have appropriate staff

in place. We actually have more staff in place under Nalcor than they did at

AbitibiBowater. We have increased the amount of employment out there in the

hydroelectric facility.

Mr. Speaker, the union, as I said, have been side by side with us on this and

they now have started the process to right this wrong.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Minister, I apologize for raising my voice, but I cannot talk

gently and rise above the yahoos in the backbenches over there, because they

have been bawling and screaming since I have been on my feet, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: Anyway, let me just say this to the minister. Right now, as you

know, because of the bumping rights within the union there are five of these

workers who thought they would have gotten a job with Nalcor when the asset was

expropriated, who did not. They, today, have no job; they cannot file even for

EI benefits because neither Abitibi nor Nalcor will issue them a layoff from

employment.

I ask you minister: How are you going to deal with that issue? Does Nalcor

have an obligation, even though they were bumped through the union, to issue a

layoff slip to those workers so they can at least have some income?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, a couple of points for clarification. Point number one, workers

do not need a Record of Employment to apply for EI benefits. The workers can go

to any Service Canada site, it is a federal site, and EI obviously is a federal

program. They can go to any of those sites and they can apply for EI benefits

without a Record of Employment, point number one.

Point number two, Mr. Speaker, the workers were bumped through a collective

agreement process, a duly agreed to process. Those workers, when the

expropriation occurred, were working in the hydroelectric facility. The day that

we took ownership of it, on March 29 of this year, there were a number of months

where people exercised their obligation to bump. So those workers knew, because

there were consultations had with them, that they were going to be bumped out of

their job. The only thing that was not known here was the heartlessness of

AbitibiBowater to indicate to these people that they would not live up to

responsibilities.

For the Leader of the Opposition to try and put that responsibility on Nalcor

or the government is absolutely ridiculous!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development

as well.

Minister, the Province sunk $15 million into a fibre optic deal four years

ago. The Request for Proposals were called on this $52 million project in 2007,

and they closed on April of 2008, yet there has been no award, I understand, of

the contract to date.

I am wondering if you could give us an update as to why this delay?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly am happy to provide an update to the House Leader for the

Opposition.

Mr. Speaker, what we refer to as the Government Broadband Initiative is the

Request for Proposals that the hon. member is referring to. His timeline is

correct. That request went out just over a year ago now, and there has been, I

guess you could call it, a delay. I would prefer to say that there has been

extensive work done on the amount of information that we have in relation to

that Request for Proposals. It is a very large project. It involves many, many

dollars. I won't say how many, but many, many dollars. It is probably one of

the biggest projects that this Province has undertaken, and there was a lot of

work that had to be done to make sure that we did the proper due diligence to

understand all of the information that came in.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, Eastern Health's performance on last Friday raises many red

flags concerning how well the Cameron recommendations will be put into practice.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: How can the people of this Province be

assured that Eastern Health will implement the Cameron recommendations fully and

carefully after the recent display of incompetence?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: I guess, Mr. Speaker, the assurance that we can give

the people of the Province is that we, as a government and as a Cabinet, and

through the minister and his department, are doing absolutely everything we can.

As the hon. member opposite knows, we have already made expenditures in the

breast cancer area of approximately $50 million. There is another $21 million to

$23 million in the Budget this year. We are doing everything we can to implement

it properly, to the best of our ability. These are significant amounts of money

we are tracking down through. Of course, there has now been a new CEO appointed

to Eastern Health. She will be in the position in the very near future. We have

to assume, of course, that she is going to have to put the proper administrative

procedures in place and we need to allow that to happen.

We are tracking it to the best of our ability and we are being as vigilant as

we can. That is why, I guess, my reaction yesterday. I was quite annoyed at the

way this was handled last Friday. I felt that enough is enough. We will continue

to do it to the best of our ability. Unfortunately, we can't be there, as

ministers and as members of Cabinet and members of government, in the hospital

every day, in every hospital of the Province.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. Premier to conclude his answer.

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We can't micromanage, but we will certainly do whatever we can to the best

of our ability.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the Premier for his

response.

Mr. Speaker, Eastern Health said, in the press release it put out last

Friday, that it is working with government bi-weekly to identify priorities for

implementation of the Cameron recommendations. We can no longer take on faith

anything Eastern Health says, as this moment, without full public scrutiny of

its actions.

I ask the Premier, if these meetings actually are taking place and if there

will be regular updates in the progress of recommendation implementation.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The member opposite might recall that last week in the House, in response to

a question here, I had indicated that before this session was over that I would

be able to table a work plan that shows how we are going to move forward with

the implementation of the Cameron report. A part of that work plan will show the

reporting process.

I had indicated earlier, as well, following the recommendation of Cameron,

that we will have a full report, a

summary report to the House next March, but

between now and next March we will provide periodic public updates as to the

progress we are making and you will be able to track that based on the work plan

that I will share with this House before this session is concluded.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Unfortunately, I was not in the House last week so I did not have that

knowledge, but to add to that, Mr. Speaker, looking at today's technology, and

how easy it is to communicate widely with the public, good use of technology can

really help in the dissemination of information, so I am asking the minister if

he would take into consideration the setting up of a Cameron implementation Web

site with the list of recommendations and a regular update of what government

and the health authorities are doing with regard to each recommendation.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: As I indicated in response to a question yesterday, I

welcome suggestions as to how we might engage the public in an awareness and an

understanding of not only just the recommendations themselves but how we are

making progress towards the implementation, so I do thank you for your

suggestion.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time allotted for questions and answers has expired.

The Speaker is reluctant to interrupt during Question Period - it takes only

half an hour - but during Question Period the hon. the Leader of the Opposition

referred to members sitting in the back benches as yahoos. I say to the hon.

Leader of the Opposition, that is certainly unparliamentary and I ask her if she

would withdraw those remarks immediately.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you for your ruling, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly withdraw the comment.

MR. SPEAKER: Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, I indicated in this hon. House yesterday that I

would come back with a definitive answer in regard to a question from the hon.

Member for Port de Grave. He referenced, in a question yesterday, that an

accident, one accident, actually, at the intersection of Columbus Drive and Bay

Bulls Road was due to a brake defect. I can report to this House today that it

was not due to a brake defect. It was deemed as driver error, in that the driver

of the bus actually turned left in front of the car in question.

Also, he indicated that in the inspection process, inspections were

identifying brake defects and then they were being re-identified three months

down the road, or whatever he said, which can be verified in Hansard. I would

also like to clarify that as well, in that our zero tolerance approach is

definitely working in that, yes, we are identifying defects. The work is being

done, verified, and then that puts the bus in service again to transport our

youth to the places of their education.

Also, there might be other defects being identified with a particular

contractor but it is not with the same bus, so I wanted to clarify that as well

and just make a statement that our zero tolerance approach is working and our

buses are safe in regard to our children and travelling back and forth to

school.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of the people in my District of

Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair. The petition is asking government to consider

lifting the freeze which is implemented every year on petroleum products in that

area.

Mr. Speaker, Members of the House of Assembly and the minister will be aware

of this issue simply because it has been in the media for quite some time,

especially over the course of January, February and March this year, in which

people in my district found that they were paying extremely high prices for

petroleum products in one area

whereas people in the other area of the district

were getting deregulated breaks on prices. The concern was that these petroleum

products were being transferred or transported from one zone to the other zone

and it was the same product that was being sold from one area to the other area.

However, if it was sold in area ten, I think it is, Mr. Speaker, it would have

been subjected to the price regime that is in place for calculating the price on

petroleum products in the Province, in all areas of the Province,

whereas if it

was in zone eleven it would have been calculated under a different regime in

which the products are frozen for an extended period of time.

Mr. Speaker, I did present a brief to the Public Utilities Board on this

issue, which I have here today, asking that this freeze would be lifted. I did

that in response not only to the petitions that I received from nearly all the

communities that were effected in the region, but also in response to the

letters that I received from the municipalities. All of the municipalities in

this zone, with the exception of one, had asked and signed on to have the freeze

lifted. They feel that in doing so it will allow for, not just more competitive

pricing but it would be a pricing that reflects the actual cost of delivery of

petroleum products in that area.

Right now, Mr. Speaker, if you look at the pricing of petroleum products

right across the Province, whether that would be for furnace oil, stove oil or

gasoline, what you will see is that from one zone to the other there is usually

a price differential of only two cents to three cents or four cents in that

pricing. That accounts for the transporting of that fuel into that particular

zone; but, when you get into districts like mine, where you have the Labrador

Straits in one area, you go seventy-six kilometres down the road to the next

community and you find that there is a difference of up to thirty cents and

thirty-three cents a litre in the price of gasoline, for instance. That is a

huge price difference and actually does not fall in line with the way other

prices are calculated at all on these products.

People could easily see that because you are transporting over gravel roads,

you are transporting in a huge zone, because if you look at from Mary's

Harbour or Lodge Bay up to Cartwright it is a large zone geographically, so

there is a fair amount of distance, and you would think, yes, that you are going

to pay more than the normal two cents or three cents to transport that gasoline,

stove oil, or furnace oil, but you would not expect to pay up to thirty cents,

thirty-three cents and thirty-five cents, which has normally been the case.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to conclude her remarks.

MS JONES: Yes, I will, Mr. Speaker.

The people, through their petition, are asking the government to lift this

freeze and that the price be regulated under the same formula that is used in

all other areas of the Province. They feel that in doing so they would have to

live with the consequences of when prices fluctuate, but they do feel that it

would be a fairer process for them and that is what they are petitioning today.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?

Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, we will call from the order sheet Motion 1, put

forward by the hon. Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board, to move

that this House approves in general the budgetary policy of the government, the

Budget Speech.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair is asking if there is any further debate on the

budgetary motion as put forward by the Minister of Finance.

The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. KENNEDY: You have an hour to speak, don't you?

MR. JACKMAN: I do not believe, Mr. Speaker, I have an hour, but if you

want to give it to me, you can.

It gives me privilege today to get up and speak to the Budget. I suppose you

can look at this from I always look at it from two perspectives. You

represent the people in your district, some of the people of the Province, and

then you represent the department that you are in, and as such, you divide your

time between the two roles as much as you possibly can.

If I look to this Budget, and if I consider it in the economic times that we

are in, I do not think there are too many people who can be too critical of the

Budget that we have brought forward.

First things that struck me about this, is listening to some of the stuff

that was going on in the United States, and the conversations around where you

need to go. They were talking about, you needed to invest in economic stimulus;

you needed to invest in R&D. I watched a speech on one of the American

stations, and I thought to myself: well, we are in a good league, when we are

considering that the things that they are suggesting we already had well under

way.

Then if we go to the Budget and realize that we did invest $800 million into

an economic stimulus, and to start that work so that people can become employed,

and that we stay ahead of the game, then that is a very positive move. Then if

you look to education, and that is the previous vocation that I was involved in,

and I look at the headings, there is $121 million that will be invested in

school infrastructure. I have to say to the Minister of Education and, like

I said, having come from the education system, I do believe - and I say this

with all sincerity and not because she is from my party, I think there has been

more done under her tenure as an education minister than there has been done

ever before.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, when I look back at last year's Budget and

consider that we are issuing free textbooks in this Province now; we have

removed school fees; we are investing more into school lunch programs. Then if

you look to the post-secondary, all you have to do is listen to the student

union leaderships that are out there and talk to some of the students who are

presently students and former students, the lifting of the interest rates;

tuition freezes; the grants that we have provided, $70 weekly and increasing

that to $80 weekly.

I am proud to stand here and say that I am part of a government that has

invested in education. Anybody in this House who has gotten up and talked about

our youth have always said that once we invest in students we are investing in

our future. That is exactly what I feel we have done, and again, I have to

commend the minister on what she has accomplished in her tenure there so far.

When we look at health, all we have to do is look at Question Period again

today and look at issues that have arisen in health. Health is a continued

investment. I think that if we wanted and we were to cater to each of the

demands out there, that we could invest our entire budget, but that is simply

not possible. We have to, as a Cabinet and as a government, consider the needs

of the entire spectrum and departments that we have set out in government, and

then we have to invest accordingly. Part of being healthy is just not from a

medical perspective. It is from having a strong, sound body and mind. Thus we

invest in education, we invest in tourism, we invest in recreation, and the list

goes on.

This year in health, just think about it, in a Province of 500,000 people, to

be investing $2.6 billion, it has to speak to our commitment to the health and

well-being of the people in our Province.

Mr. Speaker, I would certainly like to address some of the issues that fall

under my department. I am willing to bet that I can ask anyone in this House of

Assembly, ask anyone in the Province and the e-mails that we get from other

provinces, from Newfoundlanders and Labradorians living outside the Province,

they will tell you that if there is one thing they can take pride in it is the

advertisements that we have on our local stations, plus other stations that we

have in Ontario, out West, and as such, we have doubled, since 2004 - we have

more than doubled. Last year we had doubled it. This year we have put another

million dollars into our advertising campaign. We have taken that campaign now

from $6 million in 2004 to $13 million this year. As a result, I feel that we,

as a Province, have become leaders in the tourism industry. We have a product

that is second to none. I think, as one of our ads says, that we are as far from

Disneyland as you can get, and that is exactly what we want. When people arrive

in our Province, the experience that they have is not a fabricated experience.

It is actually what you see. The present ads that are out around Gros Morne, if

you want to experience it, come here and you can go to the spots that we have

advertised there.

Mr. Speaker, another one that we have invested in this year is tourism season

extension. I was very pleased to hear the other day that reports seem to be that

we are going to see another banner year for icebergs coming down our coasts. For

us in Newfoundland and Labrador, when see an iceberg we often take it for

granted, but I have to say to you, Mr. Speaker, that any time I see an iceberg,

as many times as I have seen it, I am always inspired by it and amazed that

these big beasts travel from the Artic right down along our coasts and then they

ground into some of our shorelines and people come out in droves to go and see

them.

As such, Mr. Speaker, we look at season extension on both ends. This year we

have invested $150,000 to do some continued work on the tourism extension,

season extension, on the Bonavista Peninsula and on the Viking Trail.

We are seeing changes in our travelling public. For example, we get numbers

of people now who prefer to come in September and October. The weather in our

Province in September and October is pretty good, and as such, the number of

tourists slows down. Then these people come and enjoy a comfortable pace, and we

are very pleased to see that.

In fact, Mr. Speaker, on the Bonavista Peninsula since we have done an

investment in that, we have seen the occupancy rates go from I believe it is 38

per cent up to 52 per cent. So it means that our investments in those particular

areas are paying off and it means that we have to continue to do that.

Mr. Speaker, we invest in our destination marketing. We give them $100,000 a

year, and this year we have increased that in Labrador. To Destination Labrador

we have increased it to $150,000. Certainly one of the reasons we do that, Mr.

Speaker, is we want to work closely with them to continue to develop the product

that we have in Labrador. Our Province is made up of two parts, the Island part

and Labrador, and any of us who have been to Labrador know that the product that

Labrador has is different and it is unique but it is worthy of us developing

further, and as a result we continue to make investments in that.

Mr. Speaker, on the cultural side, we continue to invest there. We recognize

that Newfoundland and Labrador is unique culturally and, as such, we certainly

want to invest in that. I would be remiss, Mr. Speaker, if I did not mention an

upcoming event this year - this is 2009 a celebration of Bartlett. Bartlett,

the great explorer who was ahead of his time, worked with Peary on expeditions

to the North Pole, and this year we are going to celebrate Bartlett. There will

be numerous celebrations, and I certainly hope that the people of the Province

will become involved and get engaged in those and make it a very successful

event.

Then, next year, in 2010, Cupids will celebrate the establishment of John Guy's

colony, and I hope that people will take the time to travel to Cupids in 2010. I

have been out there to look at some of the excavation work that they are doing

settlement in what we now call Canada, and to recognize that it has been here

for 400 years. To see some of the excavation work that has gone on out there is

certainly an educational experience and I certainly hope that people will take

advantage of that, to go out there.

Mr. Speaker, I just want to speak a little on the recreational side of my

department. I said before that we invest in health to a large degree, and we

have to. We have to make sure that our facilities, our infrastructure, are up to

snuff and, not only that, ahead of because the health sector is ever

changing, and we have to stay ever changing with it to meet the needs of the

people of the Province, but I have also said that in order to have a sound,

strong body, you have to have that recreational side of it. Health leaders will

tell you that investing in the front end to get people active and to be very

nutritionally conscious will cut back on the demands on the health care, and as

such we have invested in that.

Our budget we increased numerous years ago, a couple of years ago, as a

matter of fact, around our investment in recreation, and we continue to expand

upon that. This year we are going to put $200,000 into a new Seniors Community

Recreation Grant Program, because keeping our seniors active and healthy

decreases the demand on our health care. We are going to put $200,000 into

additional operational support to the provincial sports organizations. We have

in the range of fifty of these organizations within our Province. They are our

partners on the ground, and we have to continue to support them. They are the

leaders within our communities. Many of them are volunteers who put their time

and efforts into ensuring that our youth are active and, as such, we will be

investing in that.

We are putting $200,000 in additional funding for community recreational

programs, and we are bringing the total annual budget to $600,000. Mr. Speaker,

one of the grants that we have in place is a $600,000 grant and it is based on a

criteria. That is an investment that we will put out to the communities up to a

maximum of $15,000 that they can invest in some infrastructure in their

communities. What we saw this year was the communities and recreational

committees that submitted an application, one of the things that they did was

they leveraged other money based on this $15,000, so our investment of $15,000

really resulted in some projects having a $50,000, $60,000, or $70,000

investment.

I have to commend the communities that were involved in those. I highlight

one of the first projects that came in. It came in from the Town of Fogo, the

towns on Fogo Island. Next to the school, they wanted to start work on a soccer

complex, so we gave our $15,000 to it and, as a result, with the Department of

Education and communities around, they have begun work on that. Of course, one

of the key factors in it is that the school is recognized as a central location,

the soccer pitch to it is recognized as a central location, and hopefully they

will get into making it a school recreation facility but also a community

recreation facility. I am pleased to say that we have extended another $600,000

to that, and applications and the criteria have gone out to the interest groups

around that.

Another one, certainly, that we have invested in, we are putting $50,000 into

improving coaching within the Province. This was something that the recreation

sector asked for, because what we want to do here is to take a first look at

seeing how it is that we can improve coaching. If we are going to have our

groups out there organized, and I use the example of a soccer program, then we

want our recreation groups to avail and assist us, and to use this money to see

how we can improve the coaching capacity out there.

Another $50,000 to further support the Regional Recreation Directors program.

Last year, we put in place monies to support four of these recreational groups.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask members if they would take their private conversations outside. The

Chair is having difficulty hearing the Minister of Tourism, Culture and

Recreation, and I ask members for their co-operation.

The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I do agree with you, Sir. Thank you very much.

We are looking at $50,000, as I said, to put into a regional recreation

program of getting some directors on the ground. Last year, we approved funding

for four of those. I will use the example up in the Springdale area, that we put

in place a recreation director and that director has brought the combined

efforts of fourteen communities together so that, rather than trying to divvy up

a pot of money between fourteen, fifteen or twenty communities, they have

organized it such that now what we have is fourteen communities availing of the

services of this director. We did one out on the Southern Shore, we are doing

one in Labrador, and we are doing one in the Eastport Peninsula. This year, we

have put in another $50,000 to support that type of programming. To this point,

Mr. Speaker, it is seen as being very successful. It is being touted by

Recreation Newfoundland and Labrador as a way that we need to go, and as such we

have put in further support for that.

We have, again, invested $25,000 in the KidSport program. This is aimed at

assisting underprivileged youth, and we will work with other partners in that.

We certainly want to see all of our population taking

part in recreational

activities, and all of us who have been involved in some type of group activity,

whether it be a sport, soccer, and so on and so forth, or whether it be drama or

some other kind of group activity, know the positives that come out of being a

partner within a team structure. It builds strong relationships, it builds

strong ethics, it builds cooperation, and, as such, can only be a positive

thing.

Mr. Speaker, I only have a couple of minutes left, but before I conclude I

would certainly like to speak to what I consider to be a cultural event. It

coincides with the Department of Education. It talks about our drama festivals

that are held in the schools. This past weekend, myself and the MHA for Grand

Bank went to the regional drama festival on the Burin Peninsula. One thing that

is pretty evident is that, with the drama festivals in this Province the

directors who work with the students in our schools are very much committed. I

have to say, when you see these shows put off on a weekend you are seeing the

actual performance, but we never see the amount of work that these teachers and

students put into it; the many hours. I don't say the many weeks of practice,

Mr. Speaker, because they put in many months of practice.

To look at some of the performances that are put off there, you see that

there are plays specifically designed around our culture, our history, and then

you see that these students are engaged in events that are happening within a

community.

I was very impressed with one play that talked about the events that happen

on the internet and how children become lured by predators on the internet and

some of the cautions that we need to take as parents and as students when we are

engaged in that.

Another performance talked about the issue that has always confronted

Newfoundland and Labrador; how our people have to go away to look for work.

Then, of course, I would be remiss if I didn't mention some of the comedy

performances that were put in place, the winning school being Pierce Regional

Junior High. I have to say that these students put off an exceptional,

exceptional performance, and they were rewarded in winning the festival.

I think, Mr. Speaker, it speaks to the programs that we have in the schools,

and I go back to the investments that we have made in the education system. It

also speaks to some of the programs and the teachers we have in the system, who

speak to the culture of this Province.

I go back to my final statement, in reference to my own department. I have

said it time and time again, that this department is the face of the Province.

They are the face of the people in this Province. Our ads have been successful

in promoting that, and I am assured, Mr. Speaker, that we as a Province will do

well. That the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation is a leading

department in government that promotes getting into more of the economic

generation. Our tourism vision plan speaks to that, and we aim at doubling our

tourism revenue in ten years.

So, with that, Mr. Speaker, I certainly hope I will have the opportunity to

get up and speak again and I thank you for your time.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am certainly pleased to rise and have a few comments today in relation to

the Budget. Of course, one of the key components in the Budget was restoring

confidence in our health care system, and restoring it through the

implementation of the Cameron report.

Well, Mr. Speaker, that report, which was a significant and complex document

outlining over sixty recommendations for change that needed to occur within the

health care system, that looked at everything from the operations and management

of our health care system, to how our laboratories were being run, to how data

was collected and transferred within the system, to how patients were being

communicated with, and how messages were communicated to the public. That is a

very general sense of the complex issues that were contained in this particular

recommendation.

Mr. Speaker, when Justice Cameron was asked to undertake this particular

process, to look at changes that needed to take place within the health care

system, she was asked under the guise of one of the largest health disasters in

our entire provincial history that resulted in numerous deaths of women and men

in the Province. It also resulted in the wrong diagnosis of many of these

people, which has caused them to have significant, longer illnesses; illnesses

that have been revived from time to time and have been sporadic in their lives,

causing them tremendous anguish and hardship, both financially and emotionally.

So it was under that particular guise that this particular inquiry was

undertaken, and I think everyone in this Province watched that inquiry. If they

did not watch it in its entirety as people day after day made testimony about

the work they do, about their affiliation, about their accountability measures

that were in place and around their jobs, about what their responsibility was to

these patients. Every single day this occurred for weeks and weeks and weeks. In

fact, as I said, if people did not watch it everyday in its entirety they at

least saw portions of it on the evening news every single night. They got up

every morning to flip open their newspaper to read what the testimony was from

the day before and what the circumstances were. While that process unfolded,

government was trying to create an air of being on top of this issue, of being

engaged in this issue, of being involved in bringing about change and results

that would provide security, that would provide more confidence to people in the

Province who needed to use the system.

Well, Mr. Speaker, we as an Opposition almost bought into the tactics that

government was spinning. There were times myself, when I honestly believed that

in light of everything that had happened, this was a government that was no

longer going to fall down on the job when it came to following up on important

health information of people in the Province. That they were definitely now

alerted to what the dire consequences were if you failed to do your job, if you

failed to meet the accountability that was expected of you and live up to your

responsibilities.

Mr. Speaker, for a short period of time even I was convinced that somewhere

deep in the department that the relationship between the Department of Health

and the Eastern Health Authority was being restored, that they were all working

collectively together to sort through these issues. No one was more disappointed

than I was a few months ago. Actually, I was in Happy Valley-Goose Bay. I

happened to be there for another reason. It was actually when Serco workers were

on strike. I went up there to support them in what they were doing and to offer

a hand. I sat down and I met with them. I met with the workers and the unions

and the company and even with DND and the town councillors and all of the people

that were involved. While I was there, it is like when you visit any part of the

Province, you always get calls from other people who want to come and talk to

you about an issue.

Well, I remember meeting with this couple, Randy and Colleen Whitehorne. I

remember them telling me their story about how she had been diagnosed with

cancer. How she had been to the hospital and in the system, had done all the

appropriate testing and had waited seven months to learn of the results, that

yes, she had been diagnosed with cancer. With their co-operation, and on their

behalf, we started to look into the system that was supposed to have been

improved when it came to ensuring that health information was being communicated

properly, that data was being collected properly and input properly into the

system and that there could be complete follow-up. What did we learn?

We learned, in that particular case, that again the paper trail was not

complete. That there were a number of things that occurred, one being

information that was sent back from a hospital in British Columbia confirming

that she had cancer. It was sent to the Health Sciences but that information

just stayed there and was not communicated to the patient. It stayed there for

so long in the system that when her doctor went back to request it, they had to

go back to British Columbia again and get that information. It took seven months

for this woman to find out that she had cancer. By the time she found out, she

had to go and have an MRI done which showed that she had developed a brain

tumour. Now whether the two are connected, I do not know that. Maybe she knows

today, but I do not know for certain that the delay in her diagnosis and the

delay in her treatment may have brought on another form of cancer for her.

Mr. Speaker, that was evidence enough for me at that time, that we need to

keep a very close eye on what is happening, because obviously things are not

being restored in the system in the way government likes to tell us they are.

In fact, Mr. Speaker, when the Cameron report was released in the Province

the minister stood up at a press conference and said that a great deal I

believe was the word he used - or a number of these recommendations have already

been implemented, leading us to believe that solutions had already evolved, that

the system had already been greatly improved, that we would no longer see the

circumstances that had existed previous. Well, again, that was wrong.

The very disclosing piece to that happened on Friday past when, again,

Eastern Health, whom government claims that they were the watchful eye over, in

which government claims they had been working hand in glove with to ensure that

these problems were sorted out. What happens on Friday? On Friday, Mr. Speaker,

again, after five or six days, or more, having been notified that there were

more test results that were found in patients that were faulty, there were more

diagnoses that were made inappropriately, after discovering that there were more

patients in this Province who did not get the treatments that they should have

gotten because of the faulty hormone testing, and that many of them are now

deceased, after discovering that, what did they do? Once again, Mr. Speaker,

they attempted to hide the information. They attempted to keep the information

from the public.

Mr. Speaker, where were the lessons learned in that? The reason that we got

in the situation that we did around this whole issue was because, between the

government, the Cabinet, the Department of Health and Eastern Health, they all

wanted to go out there and spin the story in a way as to not alarm people - was

their explanation - but in doing so they did not provide full, accurate

information to the public.

It is just like Eastern Health, after knowing this information for nearly a

week, after informing the Cabinet, after receiving direction from the Cabinet,

was what the minister said, what did they do? They either had very bad direction

from the Minister of Health or they ignored the direction. Which is it? Which is

it, Mr. Speaker? Because it was 4:00 o'clock on Friday afternoon when this

information was released to the public, and how was it released? It was released

in a two-page statement, a two-page statement that had the critical information

buried in the middle of that release. The minister says, we told them to act

immediately and we told them how to handle it, but we did not tell them to put

it out there at 4:00 o'clock on a Friday evening.

Mr. Speaker, there is another issue here. If that is the case, and that is

how the event unfolded, then we have another problem here, and that problem

tells me that either Eastern Health is not taking any direction from the

minister and his department, or they are giving direction that is very unclear

and inappropriate. Mr. Speaker, I would like to know the answer to that question

when the Minister of Health gets up to speak in the Budget debate. In addition

to that, Mr. Speaker, the press release that Eastern Health put out there, let

me tell you what it said. The headline said: Moving forward with Cameron

recommendations.

Now, what would that tell you? In light of this issue, what would that tell

you? That would tell me, Mr. Speaker, that there are a number of things around

the Cameron report that are getting resolved. There are a number of these

recommendations that we are on top of, that we are acting on, and that we are

putting in place.

Well, let me tell you what the press release really said. Buried in the

middle of it were important, critical details around people's health in this

Province. It said, in fact, that there were thirty-eight new patients identified

in the Province who needed retesting, of which twenty-four were reported to have

been deceased.

Mr. Speaker, that is clearly an insult to those people who are impacted, if I

have ever read one in my life; if I have ever read one in my life. These people

deserve better. They deserve better than this. They deserve better than having

critical information regarding their health being buried in a press release and

issued at 4:00 o'clock in the afternoon, with no one available to speak to

them; with a minister in Halifax, a CEO who was not in the Province, from what I

understand, or on the way out, with no one available to speak with them. It is

ridiculous. It is insensitive and it is inconsiderate, notwithstanding the fact

that it is misleading.

I think if there is anything that these patients have deserved over the

course of all of this it is for people to be honest with them, to be up front

with them. Mr. Speaker, we asked the government and we asked the minister - we

asked him yesterday and we asked again today in the House of Assembly - why this

has continued in the manner that it has. Why have we not seen more of an effort

to improve the way that important information is communicated, not just to

patients but also to the public. Because you have to remember that although

Eastern Health was aware of this information since March 26, and although the

Cabinet discussed it on April 1, these patients were never contacted until hours

before the press release went out on Friday evening. Now, isn't that

something? Isn't that something? Have we learned nothing, I say, Mr. Speaker?

Have we learned absolutely nothing?

Well, one of the key elements to all of these Cameron recommendations and the

report was ensuring that adverse health effects in the Province are communicated

in an appropriate manner, that there be protocols put in place to ensure that it

is done, and that there be full and open disclosure to the public, not critical

information buried in two pages of a press release that has a misleading

heading. These were the key lessons that should have been learned. They should

have been learned before the Cameron Inquiry ever came off the TV screens in

this Province, because those were the messages that were out there everyday. No

one in this Province had the wait for a 470-page report to fall on their desks

to know that there were communication problems in how this information was being

handled.

Mr. Speaker, the day of testimony should have been the day that the

government opposite acted to improve the communications in Eastern Health, to

improve the disclosure of information, and to improve the methods in which they

communicated adverse effects to the public and to patients. But did that happen?

Absolutely not!

I was appalled today, in questioning the minister in the House of Assembly,

to find out from him, that: Since Friday I have discussed with the board chair

to start a process of disclosure, and how we would complete that process. Those

were his words today in the House of Assembly. Those were his words today,

months and months after we have learned about this health disaster and crisis in

our Province. His response today is that: I have now talked to the board chair

since Friday and we will put in place a process of disclosure. Well, that is not

good enough, Mr. Speaker. It is not good enough! It should have been done months

ago, months ago when women in this Province were being dragged to testify in a

public inquiry, when families in this Province were bearing witness everyday to

the testimony of how their parents, their mothers, their fathers and their loved

ones had learned of this critical information. Mr. Speaker, it should have been

done then and not a process started on Friday.

I think it is shameful and it shows the lack of leadership and the lack of

initiative that has been taken by the government, Mr. Speaker. They have lots of

time to debate this issue, and I will look forward to them standing one after

the other every single cabinet minister over there and telling me what

they did, as the leaders in this Province, to ensure that this process was

corrected prior to Friday. I want to know that, Mr. Speaker. This is a serious

issue, and I want to know what government has done to act in the best interests

of people, besides grandstand on the issue, make smart comments on the issue,

and throw money in there that has yet to be spent, Mr. Speaker. I want to know

what they have done to correct the things that did not require money, but

required process, that required leadership, and required effort on behalf of

them, as the leaders of healthcare in this province.

Let me tell you what else the minister said today that absolutely astounded

me, Mr. Speaker; absolutely astounded me. He said: we cannot control the

judgements of employees. Well Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister and I say to

the Premier, that you should pick employees that have appropriate judgements

when it comes to issues like this. It is not only government that should have

learned their lessons, but it is the people who work in the system as well. Mr.

Speaker, no one is excluded from this.

Yesterday, we had the Premier out in the foyer of this building saying, they

should be shot over there, in referring to Eastern Health. Now Mr. Speaker, I

knew that he was not talking about taking a gun and driving down to Waterford

Bridge Road and going into the administration building of Eastern Health. I knew

what he meant by his comment, as insensitive and shocking as it was. I knew he

meant that they needed to be disciplined with a heavy hand. Well, Mr. Speaker,

this government should have known, better than anyone else in this Province,

that there needed to be discipline with a heavy hand a long time ago on this

issue; not just in the last forty-eight hours, Mr. Speaker, but a long time ago.

It is not enough, Mr. Speaker, to posture yourself in times like this, when

the government's actions are under attack again, because they fell down on a

critical leadership role in this province, because they failed to meet their own

responsibilities, Mr. Speaker. It is not good enough then, to posture yourself

in a position of aggression and action, if you are going to walk out through

those doors and do nothing about it. That is what we have seen.

Mr. Speaker, I have asked hundreds of questions on this issue in the House of

Assembly - hundreds of questions! - and I have seen the government posture every

day with their sympathetic voices, with their tough talk, about the actions that

we are going to take. Guess what, Mr. Speaker? The minister stands up today and

says: I finally went over and talked to the CEO on Friday, and now we are going

to see what we can do about this. Unacceptable, Mr. Speaker! And it is

unacceptable for the Premier of the Province to just posture himself on an issue

and not take action on it.

Mr. Speaker, I had all kinds of e-mails on my system last night and this

morning saying: Oh, you have to get out there and you have to take a shot at the

Premier for what he said about the people at Eastern Health. You have to take a

shot at him. My, that is unacceptable. There is enough violence in society

without having the Premier out there making comments that could insinuate that

he is actually going to go out and shoot somebody. I have had those e-mails,

but, Mr. Speaker, I am not going to go there, because I know that was not the

rationale and the meaning behind his statement.

Mr. Speaker, what was the rationale behind his statement was that discipline

is required, and I will take a heavy hand to make sure it happens. Well, I would

like to ask the Premier to start in his own government with a heavy hand, and a

little bit of discipline. He likes to reign in all the Cabinet and all the

caucus when it means that he needs to silence them so that: I look good as the

leader of the government, so dare not you speak, dare not you question, dare not

you have another idea that could be contrary to the one that I espouse.

Mr. Speaker, where is that heavy hand in reigning in his Minister of Health,

who had to admit on the witness stand in the public inquiry that he never read

his briefing notes on one of the largest health disasters in this province, the

same minister who had to admit, again on the witness stand, that he was given

false information by Eastern Health as to the number of patients who were

impacted? He never questioned the information, just brought it into the House of

Assembly and tabled it.

My suggestion to the Premier, Mr. Speaker: If there is someone he needs to

discipline with a heavy hand, it needs to start inside of his own government.

Then, maybe, the Colleen Whitehornes of the world will not be ending up in

Edmonton, like that woman is today, getting the treatment that she is getting

because someone failed to communicate her test results and organize her

treatments for her. Maybe then, Mr. Speaker, we will not have incidents like we

did again on Friday where you have a health corporation who is trying to hide

important information regarding people's lives in this Province.

I think it is time for someone to take a heavy hand, Mr. Speaker. It is time

for someone to take a heavy hand to ensure that this system starts running

appropriately. We all know that government and Eastern Health have cleaned

house. We know that the CEO who was the master in the day when this was done has

been fired. We also know that the communications people have changed. We also

know that a lot of the directors in the various departments, including the

laboratories, have changed. So, I am not sure who the Premier is going to shoot

over there but most of them have already been changed over in one way or

another, in one job to another job. There are different people with different

areas of responsibility but the problem we have today is leadership, and those

of you who fail to see it will ensure that this problem continues as opposed to

being fixed. That is the issue that we are dealing with: the issue of leadership

and the absence of it in this particular case.

Mr. Speaker, this is not the only issue. This is not the only issue that

government is bungling. This is not the only one. I am going to talk about

Abitibi now for a little bit. I have another thirty-five minutes left, and I

could talk for the next thirty-five hours on what has happened in the Cameron

inquiry and this government's response to it, but I have made my point for

today. I have made my point, and my point is that the inactivity and the lack of

leadership of the government opposite is continuing to affect the health of

people in this Province and that is unacceptable.

Mr. Speaker, let's talk about Abitibi for a little bit, because this is

another area where we are seeing a lot of people in this Province impacted. A

lot of people impacted. In fact, Mr. Speaker, there is no end to the e-mails

that I have received, and I know that a lot of these e-mails were copied to the

member for the area, copied to the member for the adjacent areas in Bishop's

Falls and Botwood, and copied to ministers - the Minister of Innovation, Trade

and Rural Development, the Minister of Natural Resources - so they cannot stand

and dispute some of the comments that I am going to make today because they have

gotten the e-mails as well.

Now, I have not seen their responses to these e-mails. Maybe they never

responded to their constituents who sent them to them - I have no idea - but if

they did respond they did not copy it to all of the people who were on the list,

so I have no idea how they spin their response to these people, but let me just

tell you what the response was that I got from them.

Mr. Speaker, the government is hiding, hiding under the guise of support from

some union leaders and a mayor in Grand Falls. Because these individuals have

come out and said some complimentary things about the process that government

has in place, government likes to jump up and say, oh, this is what the Mayor of

Grand Falls had to say, or this is what the head of this union had to say. Mr.

Speaker, a lot of them do not have their paycheques on the line the way that a

lot of these workers do that I am talking to. I can honestly tell you that these

workers do not share the comments that were made by their mayor, and a lot of

them do not share the comments that were being made by a couple of their union

leaders. I know of one particular comment because I got a number of e-mails on

it.

Mr. Speaker, let me just tell you the situation that exists in Grand Falls

today. I got up the other day and I spoke about this in the House of Assembly

and the minister got up, and the member for that area, and talked about all of

the great things that they were doing, how the sun will rise even higher and

everything will be completely rosy. I hope she is absolutely 100 per cent right,

Mr. Speaker. I absolutely hope she is, but in the short term this minister has a

lot of people to answer to. She has a lot of people in that area who do not know

today if they are going to get the thousands and thousands of dollars that are

owed to them. I forget what the quote was, something like $25 million or $26

million in total, in payout and benefits, that is supposed to accrue to the

workers in that area.

Mr. Speaker, first of all, this government has never been able to disclose or

give us the correct information about what happens to the severance of all of

these workers in the case of a bankruptcy. If AbitibiBowater is to go into

receivership, what happens to the severance benefits of all of these workers? No

one has been able to give us the answer to that question, with all of the

resources that government has: with a full Department of Justice, with all the

money they have to access the largest corporate and labour lawyers in the

country and in the world - because, as we know, this is tangled up in American

legislation as well. Mr. Speaker, we have yet to get a definitive response from

them in terms of what the impact will be. It is almost like: They are not

bankrupt yet; we will see what happens.

Mr. Speaker, this is a company who has been unable to refinance its loans.

This is a company that is millions and billions in deficit. This is a company

who can no longer raise money in the financial market. You sit back and you say:

What is the panic? The minister stood one day and said she is not hitting the

panic button. Mr. Speaker, if her house was on the line today, if she was in

fear of a bank recalling her mortgage, if she was afraid that she was going to

lose everything she owned, including her $60,000 or $70,000 she is owned in

severance, she would hit a panic button. She would hit it pretty hard, just like

a lot of people are doing.

I know that government is out there trying to calm the fears, trying to calm

the worries of people, and that is good, there is nothing wrong with that, but

you do not calm them without coming clean with the information. You calm people

by being up front and giving them all the information. Right now, today, the

government has not disclosed what the implications will be for these workers in

a case of bankruptcy.

The other thing they have asked by workers: In the absence of a bankruptcy

position and we lose our severance, is government prepared to step in? Are they

prepared to step in and honour these contracts because you now own the assets?

You now own the assets. You own the assets of the power generation facility,

which will generate millions and millions of dollars this year to the government

in revenue. You also own the timber resources that have now gone out to a

Request for Proposals to have someone to come in and develop and operate,

another resource in which you will collect royalties, in which you will collect

taxes. It is worth money to you as a government. They are saying: Now that you

own the assets, and something happens in this company, where does that leave me?

Are you prepared to honour the agreements that are there? Are you prepared to

leave me out in the cold?

Mr. Speaker, I am going to tell you, the comments were really clear to me a

very short time ago I am not sure if it was a week or so ago when the

Premier went to meet with David Coles, who is the president of the

Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union. He went to meet with him, Mr.

Speaker. Now, we never heard Mr. Coles out there trying to place this in the lap

of the federal government until after his meeting with the Premier. As we know,

the Premier likes to go after the Prime Minister. He is more interested, Mr.

Speaker, in getting one up on the Prime Minister than getting the issue

resolved. So, he goes up along, he meets with the leader of the union, Mr.

Coles, and within days Mr. Coles is out taking a page out of the book of the

Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador take on the federal government. It is

now all the responsibility of the federal government.

I do not know, Mr. Speaker, if the eight floor wrote the briefing notes and

brought them up to Mr. Coles when they went, and told him, this is what you

should be doing, and that you should try and pin this on Prime Minister Stephen

Harper, and that he is the one that should be coming out in a case of bankruptcy

and paying for the benefits of these workers. It sounds like something they

would do, Mr. Speaker. If I could ever access the paper, I bet there is an

actual document written on it. I bet there is an actual document in government

written on it.

We have never heard, prior to that, Mr. Speaker, the president of the

Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union for the country, even remotely go

down that road, but within days, after being in a closed session meeting with

the Premier of the Province in Newfoundland and Labrador, all of a sudden he was

up demanding that the federal government, in the case of any kind of bankruptcy,

in the case of any loss of severance to these workers, then you should pay it.

Mr. Speaker, I am sure, if there is a legal provision for the federal

government to pay out this money, they will be held accountable and they will

have to pay out the money. So they should, if they are legally responsible, but

if they are not, Mr. Speaker, who has the moral responsibility? It is the

Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, because they own the assets, they make

the money off the deal.

This is a case, again, of where government is trying to lead the unions down

the garden path of taking on his big, bad foe in Stephen Harper, to try and get

another one up on the federal government, Mr. Speaker, not one up for the

workers. I hope they are just not silly enough to follow. I hope they are smart

enough, Mr. Speaker, to see that the only obligation here is a moral obligation.

In the case of a default by the company and these workers do not get their

money, the real obligation, Mr. Speaker, in the absence of any legal one, of any

constitutional or contract one, is a moral one, and the moral obligation lies

with the government. I do not mean a moral obligation to go out in Grand FallsWindsor

and Bishop's Falls and Botwood and set up a few offices and help a few people

with their resumes, and Mr. Speaker, set up a task force and give them a few

dollars and go out and create some new industry. That is all well and good, but

there is a moral obligation to workers who have worked their entire life, who

have given years and years of service to a company, who are due severance pay,

that they should receive it. They should receive it, Mr. Speaker.

All they are asking of this government is: are you prepared to live up to

your moral obligation and commitment, as the holder of the assets, as the people

who are earning the profit on these assets, to do that in the absence of any

legal, contractual or constitutional or company obligation, Mr. Speaker? Very

simple, in my opinion. I can tell you, that the actions of the premier and the

comments of the leader of the national union, Mr. Speaker, is evidence to me

that this government is looking for a way out of their moral obligation and they

are looking for a way to pin it in someone else's lap, Mr. Speaker; pin it in

someone else's lap.

Mr. Speaker, that is only the issue as it relates to the workers who were

working directly in the mill and had severance packages assigned to them. What

about all the loggers out there? What about all of the loggers out there who are

being told that they have no severance program, Mr. Speaker, that they have no

severance package, that there was nothing devised for them in the company? What

about those people, Mr. Speaker? There has to be an air of sympathy for those

people. There has to be an air of sympathy for all of those people. There has to

be at least one person on the other side of that House who must have some

sympathy for the loggers in Central Newfoundland today who do not have a job,

who do not have another industry to turn to in the forest sector, who are being

told that, there is no severance pay for you. There must be enough air of

sympathy over there, Mr. Speaker, in that government, that they can come up with

some solution to be able to offer some form of work payment, severance payment,

to these people.

When the loggers in Stephenville were displaced, I understood they got a

severance package. I don't think it should be any different for the loggers in

Central Newfoundland.

Mr. Speaker, I know how difficult it is. I have loggers in my own district.

Unfortunately, they, like the people in Central Newfoundland, were put out of a

job. When Abitibi closed in Stephenville they lost their livelihoods, they lost

their jobs, their incomes, and many of them had to pack up and move to Alberta.

That was a few years ago. There were options for them in Alberta then. The

options are not in Alberta today. They are not there today.

Those loggers in my own district

MR. TAYLOR: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MS JONES: Why don't you get up yourself, Joan?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, on a point of order.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am just wondering: Is the Leader of the Opposition suggesting that Mr.

Coles, the national president of the union that represents tens of thousands of

forestry workers in this country, is not smart enough to make his own decisions

and recognize what the issues are in the sector of the economy that he

represents? Is she suggesting that he is being hoodwinked by the Premier and is

not intelligent enough to recognize it? Is that what she is suggesting? Because

that is what I am hearing her say.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

I recognize the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What I am hearing the minister say is absolutely nothing, just like every

other day. They are great at getting up and trying to put words in your mouth,

they are great at getting up and spinning arguments, but they are rarely that

great on getting up and giving you any solutions, any answers, any action on

behalf of the people of the Province.

I am sure, today, the people out in Grand Falls-Windsor and Bishop's Falls

and Botwood sitting around their kitchen table who don't have a clue, Mr.

Speaker, if they are going to get a cent of money due to them or not, are

absolutely appreciative of the minister's comments and his point of order

today. I am sure they are sitting down clapping their hands out there around the

kitchen table today, because the minister had a brainwave and got up on a point

of order in the House of Assembly and wanted to take me on, on David Coles.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, let me just say this, because this is an important

issue and I refuse to be diverted from making the comments that I am prepared to

make today by frivolous points of order on the other side of the House. Let me

just say this: Not only are we dealing with these people, but, as I said, we are

dealing with the loggers as well.

We have already heard the Minister of Fisheries for the Province out saying

we are prepared to look at a sectoral retirement program for fisheries workers,

for processing workers in this Province, people who work in fish plants. We are

prepared to look at that, he said, publicly. He also said it in the Estimates

the other night: For fisheries workers on a plant-by-plant basis, depending on

the circumstances, if this is something that the unions and that the processors

are prepared to buy into.

Well, why hasn't this government been out saying they are prepared to do

the same for loggers in the Province? There are a lot of loggers in Southern

Labrador that would qualify. There are a lot of loggers on the Northern

Peninsula of this Province that would qualify. There are a lot of loggers in

Central Newfoundland today that would qualify. Mr. Speaker, they are not out

proposing to do anything like that for loggers in the Province, but if you can

do it for one group of workers why can't you do it for the other? Why can't

you do it for the other? You must realize the tremendous financial hardship and

circumstances these people find themselves in.

I am sure the member for the district, the two members or three members,

whatever is out in that area, five, six, I do not know, there might be ten of

them out there, but you would not know because you do not hear from them. Mr.

Speaker, surely some of them must have an understanding of what this is going to

mean and surely when they are sitting at the Cabinet table and they are voting

at the Cabinet table to put in place a program for fish processors in the

Province, for fish plant workers on a case-by-case basis, surely one of them

must have enough nerve to speak up against the Premier and say, why can't we

do it for loggers? Surely, one of them has enough nerve to speak up and say at

the Cabinet table, I represent loggers and if we are going to do it for fish

plant workers, then I want to do it for loggers, too.

Mr. Speaker, we have not heard anything about that. We have not heard

anything about that, and I can go right through the benches over there and name

every district that would have loggers in their districts that would be

impacted. I can go right through the benches and name every single one of them,

and a number of them are in the Cabinet. A number of them are in Cabinet, but

yet they voted for a program in fisheries but they never put out a similar

program for loggers that were impacted.

Now, Mr. Speaker, again, sticking with Grand Falls-Windsor, Bishop's Falls

and Botwood area. What about the pension plan? We asked in the House of Assembly

under bankruptcy: What does this mean to the pension plan that is only 75 per

cent funded? What does it mean? Does it mean that those that are due a pension

will only draw out a portion of it? Does it mean they will only draw it until

the fund is depleted? Does it mean that revenues from the assets will go in to

top up the unfunded liabilities in the plan? Or, does it mean tough luck? Is it

tough luck, is that what it is? Our hands are tied. Abitibi is a bad company.

Abitibi is insensitive. Abitibi is not a good corporate player. Give me a break!

Because that is the only thing I ever hear out of a minister opposite when they

stand to answer a question on Abitibi and the workers that are impacted is how

bad the company is. Well that is not a response to a question, I say to the hon.

members. That is no comfort for the person who sits at their kitchen table

pondering where this dilemma is going to leave them.

So, the next time I ask a question I hope someone over there has the decency

to stand up and give a response to it as opposed to saying Abitibi is a bad

corporate company. Well, everybody will make their own judgements around that at

the end of the day. The first ones to make that judgement are probably going to

be the workers. Just because the company is a bad corporate citizen does not

negate the responsibility of government to act on behalf of these people.

So, Mr. Speaker, we never did get an answer to our question. I do not know if

they have yet gone around North America, because their issue was that a lot of

this is enshrined in American policy and American legislation so therefore we

are not sure how it applies. Well, they have had a week now. They have had a

whole week and they have had an opportunity to retain the best labour and

contract lawyers in North America and I am sure they are out there that can

decipher the legislation of the United States as it revolves around bankruptcy,

pension plans and severance packages. They should have enough briefing notes now

that they should not be able to carry them into the House of Assembly, they

should be that heavy, telling them the positions and the options that are

available. Yet, they are mum, not a word, not a sound.

We would like to know the answer to that because the people who are e-mailing

and calling us, that is the kind of questions they are asking. That is the kind

of questions they are saying to us, could you ask on our behalf? It is pretty

frustrating for them when they are waiting every day for an answer and they are

getting nothing only name calling between the minister and the company.

Let's talk about the recent issue around Abitibi that I raised in the House

of Assembly yesterday and what affects twenty-two employees who worked at the

hydro generating plant - which, as we know, was one of the assets that was

expropriated by government. There were twenty-two of them who worked there that

were told that you will be transferred to work with Nalcor, the new energy

corporation owned by the shareholders of the Province, operated by a board

appointed by the government. They were told you would have a job with Nalcor.

Mr. Speaker, two issues came into play. One was bumping rights or succession

rights by the union, which the government must have known when they expropriated

the asset of the hydro generation plant. They must have known that with that

they would be expropriating liabilities, and one of those liabilities would be

the people that work there. I cannot believe the disregard that was shown for

what the consequences for the employees would be. There was a complete disregard

shown, and that is evident today. Any time you expropriate an asset you have to

know what the liabilities are that are attached to it. In this case, it was

twenty-two employees who were told they would be transferred to Nalcor, but when

the bumping right of the union came into play five of those never got

transferred because they were bumped by people with more seniority in the union.

Okay, we all understand how that works, but they must have known that the union

would have had bumping rights in the first place. Before they ever expropriated,

they must have known. It was not that hard to figure out, who the union was

going to have bumped out of their jobs. Then, Mr. Speaker, action should have

been taken to provide for those five workers who were going to be affected, but

that did not happen. It did not happen because, like everything this government

does, it is all about the fanfare. It is all about the fanfare. It is all about

getting on the podium. It is all about taking the centre stage. It is never

about the consequences that are left to be picked up by those people who are

impacted.

The day, Mr. Speaker, of the expropriation was the biggest rush job in

government. We supported the legislation, because we did not want to see the

company go into bankruptcy and the assets of the people of this Province being

tangled up in all kinds of liability issues with this company. We did not want

that to happen. We were all too happy to approve the legislation to expropriate,

but we never dreamed that government would not do due diligence before they

actually took it over.

The day they took it over, the big announcement that day: As of midnight

tonight. Well, nobody came out and said as of midnight tonight there are

twenty-two workers who may not get their severance pay because we are

expropriating this asset. Nobody ever said that there are going to be five

people out of a job who cannot even get a layoff slip from Nalcor or Abitibi to

actually file for their unemployment insurance benefits to tie them over. That

was not part of the big fanfare announcement. In fact, Mr. Speaker, it was not

even a consideration, because if it had been a consideration government would

have done diligence, or at least we would like to have some faith in them that

they would have done diligence, and they would have negotiated under the

expropriation contract the rights and the security for these workers, and it did

not happen. It did not happen.

In fact, Mr. Speaker, yesterday in the House of Assembly, I asked the

Minister of Justice: Under contract law, when assets are expropriated, does that

mean the contracts that are connected to those assets are now void? He did not

understand the question, so I had to ask it again. It is very simple. The

question was very simple. Under contract law, once you expropriate assets, does

that mean the contracts associated with those assets are void? We still do not

have the answer to that.

We have obviously talked to a contract lawyer. We have obviously solicited

our own views on what that means, and what we are being told, Mr. Speaker, is

that it does make the contracts void, but I do not know that for certain. That

is why we are asking the government. Can you tell us, when that expropriation

occurred, that every one of those workers automatically had a void contract,

which meant they did not have to be paid out severance, that they did not have

to be paid out holiday pay?

I can tell you that the workers were not told. They were not told. When they

were told that they would be going to work for Nalcor, they thought they were

leaving a company where they would retain the assets they had built up as an

employee, where they would secure their severance and their holiday pay and they

were lucky, they were fortunate, they felt absolutely blessed, because they were

going to work for another company, Nalcor Energy, a big government energy

corporation, and we will be fine. They were excited about it. They were never,

ever told, Mr. Speaker, that you could be out thousands of dollars.

I think the reason they were not told is because government, in its haste,

failed to follow through to secure the benefits for these workers, and it was

after the fact that they realized that we have a problem. It was after the fact,

when the five workers who did not get a job went to Nalcor and said: Because we

were supposed to be transferred to your company, you have to give us a layoff.

They go: Oh, no, we have nothing to do with you. Then they go back to Abitibi

and they say: Oh, no, you no longer work for us. When our assets were

expropriated, your contracts were terminated.

Mr. Speaker, this is the situation, and who is caught in the middle of it?

Who is caught in the middle of it? The innocent, every day, hard-working

individual in this Province who cannot get an answer from the government. The

only thing they have gotten from the minister, the only minister I give him

credit, because he was probably the only one in the House of Assembly yesterday

when I raised the issue who had any idea what I was talking about, and that is

the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development.

In fact, Mr. Speaker, when every other minister in the front bench were

looking at each other, he stood up on his feet. He stood up on his feet, and I

have to give him credit for that. I have to give him credit for that, Mr.

Speaker, because when no one else in the House, on the other side, had any idea

what the question was I was asking, what the issue was, when not one other over

there had an answer, they had a blank face, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of

Innovation, Trade and Rural Development had enough guts to stand up on his feet

and give an answer.

Now, Mr. Sp