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May 27, 1987

33rd Parliament, 3rd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

L017 - Wed 27 May 1987 / Mer 27 mai 1987

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

CROP INSURANCE

SAFETY IN SPORTS

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT PROGRAM

RENT REGULATION

COBOURG SESQUICENTENNIAL

DRIVER EXAMINATIONS

POLICE PURSUITS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

CANADA WINTER GAMES

SPORTS EXCHANGE PROGRAM

ONTARIO SOIL MAINTENANCE GRANT

RESPONSES

ONTARIO SOIL MAINTENANCE GRANT

CANADA WINTER GAMES

SPORTS EXCHANGE PROGRAM

ONTARIO SOIL MAINTENANCE GRANT

ORAL QUESTIONS

CONSTITUTIONAL DISCUSSIONS

HOSPITAL FUNDING

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

IDEA CORP.

GOVERNMENT PROCUREMENT

FARM TAX REDUCTION PROGRAM

LAYOFFS

INSURANCE

HERITAGE LANGUAGES

AIR AMBULANCE

TABLING OF INFORMATION

PETITIONS

TRUCKING ROUTE

PUBLIC ACCOUNTING

INTRODUCTION OF BILL

LABOUR RELATIONS AMENDMENT ACT

ORDERS OF THE DAY

TEACHERS' SUPERANNUATION AMENDMENT ACT

TEACHERS' SUPERANNUATION AMENDMENT ACT

ROYAL ASSENT

INTERIM SUPPLY (CONTINUED)

BUDGET DEBATE (CONTINUED)

The House met at 1:33 p.m.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

CROP INSURANCE

Mr. Andrewes: As spring moves into summer, Ontario farmers face yet another season of uncertainty as a result of turbulent markets and trade pressures. This uncertainty is heightened further by the risks of weather.

Last summer and fall, heavy rainfall flooded field crops in southwestern Ontario and hail storms caused havoc in the Niagara Peninsula. The Minister of Agriculture and Food (Mr. Riddell), after giving farm groups a rude and impolite reception, acknowledged that the province's crop insurance program needed a full review. A review committee reported some weeks ago, but to date its recommendations remain shrouded in secrecy in the minister's office. There was not a mention of reform of the crop insurance program in the throne speech and not a dollar allocated in the budget of last week.

Why is the minister sitting on this report? Is he not prepared to listen to the advice of his committee? Does he fear that the Treasurer (Mr. Nixon) will wince when asked to give substance to the recommendation?

SAFETY IN SPORTS

Mr. Martel: I would like to thank the Canadian Sports, Spine and Head Injuries Research Centre at Toronto Western Hospital, particularly Dr. Charles Tator and Virginia Edmonds, who have just provided me with the most recent figures, a compilation of the past 13 years in Canada, of sports injuries in hockey.

Fifty per cent of the injuries were in Ontario: 54 spinal injuries from a total of 107 in Canada. Of that number, 87 per cent of the known injuries were to the neck, 65 per cent had spinal cord injuries and 95 per cent of the injuries happened in organized games. The kids can play without interference and without getting hurt, but they cannot when organized. Of the known injuries, 34 per cent occurred when players were pushed or struck from behind, a rule we refuse to change, 80 per cent of the injured players were struck or struck the boards and five injured players died in Canada.

This is supposed to be sport. In fact, it is a human tragedy to have 107 young people injured, 57 per cent of whom will be confined to a wheelchair for the rest of their lives. I know there is a report coming down shortly from the Ontario Sport Medicine and Safety Advisory Board and I hope the recommendations will lead to an end to this mayhem.

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT PROGRAM

Mr. Bernier: The northern health travel grant program introduced several months ago has been an outstanding success and of great assistance to over 30,000 northerners last year. When the program was introduced, the one-way-travel distance requirement was established at 300 kilometres. However, this arbitrary distance figure excluded 20,000 residents of the general Kenora area who have sought and still seek medical attention in Winnipeg, only 205 kilometres distant.

I have appealed to the Minister of Health (Mr. Elston) and I have appealed to the Premier (Mr. Peterson) in his capacity as Minister of Northern Development and Mines. I have appealed to both of them to end this discrimination and bring fairness and equity into this travel assistance program for the northerners located in this particular region. The Minister of Health did respond to a certain degree and recently announced the distance reduction of 250 kilometres. However, believe it or not, he is still denying the 20,000 residents of the Kenora area the benefits of this program by a mere 45 kilometres.

Once again, I urge the minister and the Premier to pick up a road map and examine the mileage figures in northern Ontario. Travelling from Kenora to Winnipeg, which is 205 kilometres, is like travelling from Toronto to St. Thomas, Ontario.

I ask them to listen to the 20,000 people of the Kenora area, bring some fairness into the program and reduce this arbitrary figure to include all northern Ontario residents who deserve to reap the benefits of this northern health travel assistance program.

RENT REGULATION

Mr. Reville: The government promised to protect the tenants of Ontario. The catalogue of broken promises is fat indeed. Tenants were promised a streamlined rent review process. It is clear that the rent review process is anything but streamlined and that a couple of years from now applications will still clutter the desks of rent review administrators.

Tenants were promised a maintenance review board. It has been appointed but it has yet to meet, some five months later. The tenants were promised a rent registry so they could find out whether their rents were legal or not. The rent registry will not be operating until the end of this summer and then only part of the rents will be registered.

As for the rent review services offices, which I understand were designed to deliver on the promise of education for tenants, the experience we have when we call is that the line is busy or an answering service says someone will get back to the caller in three days. One gets absolutely wacky advice that says if one does not sign a lease one will be evicted. That is incorrect advice.

This is not a swamp; this is a fen of stagnant waters. The minister should be ashamed.

COBOURG SESQUICENTENNIAL

Mr. Sheppard: I am delighted to rise today to announce the Cobourg sesquicentennial celebrations are at present in full swing, with a number of festive events planned for the remainder of this calendar year. The program includes antique shows, arts and crafts displays and numerous concerts and plays, not to mention all types of competitions.

Some of the highlights this summer include a two-week fishing derby beginning June 22 and the Can-Am Keel Boat Regatta Invitational USA on July 3, 4 and 5.

No sesquicentennial celebration would be complete without a parade. It will be held on June 27, and our very special guest will be none other than the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor Lincoln Alexander.

I would like to extend an invitation to all members of the Legislature to come out to Cobourg this summer for a day or a weekend to enjoy the celebrations and the food and to see the sights. Cobourg is a bubbling community with a touch of country flavour.

DRIVER EXAMINATIONS

Mr. Warner: Unfortunately, due to the lack of capacity of this government to run departments properly, there are a number of young people who will be denied a job opportunity this year simply because in order to obtain a job they need a driver's licence. In order to get a driver's licence, they have to go to the driver examination centre. There is a three-month backup in most of the centres throughout the province.

For example, in Scarborough, one of the largest offices with 13 examiners, they do over 200 examinations a day and yet they still have a three-month backlog. The cutbacks have been going on for several years. They started with the Tories, but the cutbacks continue under the new Liberal government, the new Tories with the red ties.

The work load increases, of course, because now seniors, for example, have to be examined each year. Renewals are done more often in the offices, instead of by mail as they used to be. Rather than the government responding with extra staff so as to process the examinations, it allows the cutbacks to continue and the backlog to grow. Unfortunately, a number of young people who could use the extra money and the job are denied that opportunity because by the time the three months of waiting is up the job is long gone. Unfortunately, the government needs to repair its own shop.

POLICE PURSUITS

Mr. Sargent: Regarding the story in today's press of the Ontario Provincial Police probe of the tragic death of a 17-year-old girl in Midland caused by a police chase, regardless of the independent investigation which is now on the public of Ontario has had a bellyful of the senseless cops-and-robbers game which, in most cases, ends in disaster.

Maybe it is time that charges should be laid against the officer or officers who give an okay for such a police chase. In any event, it should not be left to a single officer to make such a decision.

Regardless of what that family in Midland is going through now, I ask, how many more lives will be lost before this practice stops?

Mr. McLean: I had a statement prepared on exactly the same subject the last speaker was referring to. I too am concerned about when these police chases are going to stop in order that what happened in Midland last weekend will not happen again and innocent people will not be killed.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

CANADA WINTER GAMES

Hon. Mr. Eakins: As the minister responsible for sport, recreation and fitness in the province, it gives me great pleasure to rise today to pay tribute to Ontario's young athletes who competed in this year's Canada Winter Games.

For the fourth time in a row, Ontario's young athletes have won the coveted Canada Games flag. In fact, Team Ontario has won eight of the 11 Canada Games championships since the games began.

Ontario competed in 18 sports and won a total of 211 points. The 252 athletes, coaches and managers brought home 80 medals: 20 gold, 26 silver and 34 bronze. Their victory was hard fought and hard won.

I am very proud that this government contributes in a major way to the development of our province's amateur athletes.

On behalf of the Premier (Mr. Peterson) and the people of Ontario, I ask members to join me in congratulating our wonderful young athletes for their outstanding performances at the 1987 Canada Winter Games by welcoming three representatives of the Ontario team -- Ken White, Jennifer Cook and Andrew Motomura -- who are with us in the gallery today.

SPORTS EXCHANGE PROGRAM

Hon. Mr. Eakins: I have an additional announcement to make at this time.

Ontario is being visited by a swim team from Jiangsu, China. These athletes, who are accompanied by their coach, Mr. Xhiang, are part of a first ever international sports exchange program between Ontario and China. They are here to train at the University of Toronto swim club.

Ontario's badminton and table tennis group is now in Nanjing, Jiangsu, the home of some of the best badminton and table tennis expertise in the world today.

I am pleased to tell the members of this House that the swim team, Mr. Xhiang and members of the York University staff are with us today. I am sure that my colleagues in the House join me in wishing our visitors a productive and memorable stay in Ontario.

ONTARIO SOIL MAINTENANCE GRANT

Hon. Mr. Riddell: As honourable members are well aware, there has been and continues to be a dramatic rationalization of the entire tobacco industry in this province. Tobacco growers have been particularly hard hit by this.

In response, this government has brought in programs to help tobacco producers find and evaluate alternative crops. Last month we announced, in co-operation with the federal government, a comprehensive aid package for growers faced with falling demand: the $30-million tobacco assistance program. This program pays farmers to take land permanently out of tobacco production. This could represent a reduction of as much as 10,000 acres over the next three years.

Our concern for the people affected by this upheaval must also extend to concern for the future use and productivity of the land in question and what happens to it in the meantime. This House is well acquainted with the history of our tobacco-growing areas. Over a period of 50 years or so, these regions were transformed from virtual dust bowls to productive farm land.

The land in the tobacco regions that is being taken out of production faces an increased threat from soil erosion and soil degradation during this interim period. However, as members can appreciate, the farmers involved are probably the ones least able to make the necessary financial investment themselves to combat this.

To preserve the productivity of lands in the tobacco-growing regions for the future, I am pleased to announce today the establishment of the Ontario soil maintenance grant as part of the federal-provincial tobacco assistance program, a three-year, $30-million initiative.

Under the new $3-million Ontario program, farmers who take tobacco acreage out of production will be eligible for grants to plant soil-building and erosion control crops. Growers who have transferred basic production quota under the acreage reduction

section of the tobacco assistance program are eligible for the new grants.

The money will help planting of approved soil-building and erosion control crops such as winter rye, red clover, perennial ryegrass and trees. Grants will be paid on approved crops in place during July of each year of the program. The deadline for applications this year is June 30.

Tobacco growers who have sold their quota need time to finalize their future cropping plans. The soil maintenance grant will encourage good soil management while providing planned income for growers over this transitional period. It is part of a larger effort by this government to promote good land stewardship.

RESPONSES

ONTARIO SOIL MAINTENANCE GRANT

Mr. Harris: I want to respond briefly to the statement made by the Minister of Agriculture and Food (Mr. Riddell).

I would not be one to dispute the difficulty that farmers around the area of the Treasurer (Mr. Nixon) are experiencing and the $30 million that may be necessary to help them overcome problems, but while we are on Ontario soil maintenance and alternative crops, I think it is maybe in context and it is important to bring to the House that west Nipissing farmers are facing similar problems. They are having difficulties with the crops they are growing and markets for those crops.

I find it ironic that when they applied, they applied for a little bit of assistance from this minister to help themselves. The stated policy of the Minister of Northern Development and Mines (Mr. Peterson) is that northerners have to be able to help themselves. That is the answer. When the minister does not know what to do for two years, he says, "They have to be able to help themselves." They have been coming up with ideas and solution after solution and they have all been rejected or ignored. I have mentioned many of those in the House, but particularly today, because we are on alternative crops.

I want to talk about the minister's failure to address the needs of west Nipissing farmers who banded together, were prepared to make property available at little or no cost and asked for a little bit of research assistance for themselves with the west Nipissing experimental farm.

Just $500,000, not $30 million, would have made such a huge difference not only to west Nipissing but also for the climatic conditions that are similar for our farmers and extend all the way across the lake right over to Sault Ste. Marie. Interestingly enough, the minister signed a letter saying no, he takes the results from up north in Timiskaming, they are pretty close. Timiskaming is about as close to those climatic conditions as London is to Kingston or as Toronto is to Sarnia.

The guys down here in southern Ontario think they understand it, but they do not realize the climatic differences, they do not realize the growing differences and they have completely failed to understand the problems that the farmers are having in the west Nipissing part of my riding.

They made a legitimate request for $500,000 worth of assistance to be able to help not only themselves but also those farmers who have the same climatic conditions all the way along the lake, as I mentioned, to Sault Ste. Marie. The silly answer we get is: "We are already doing some research in Timiskaming. It is the same." It is not even close to the same climatic conditions, particularly if one looks at what little test results there are available from the federal government. They point out that in Timiskaming they could not even consider corn,

whereas in west Nipissing they can grow com. I am not a farmer, but as I am told by the farmers in my riding, there is a significant climatic difference when one talks about the number of heat units and weather there.

The minister makes announcement after announcement. They all sound wonderful. They all sound great. I do not know whether his programs do any good. Most of the farmers I talk to do not seem to think they do. This was a solution from northern Ontario farmers, from the West Nipissing Agricultural Association, supported by the five councils representative of the West Nipissing Municipal Association, "Here is a way we can help ourselves; you have asked for us to come up with solutions to help ourselves," and the minister said no.

I would ask the minister to take a look at that application instead of just signing something that somebody shoves in front of his face and saying no. I would ask him to take a serious look at it and at how much that could turn around the future for the farmers in west Nipissing.

CANADA WINTER GAMES

Mr. Warner: I think it is fair to say that all the members of this House, and indeed the people of this province of ours, are justifiably proud of the young people who have represented this province at the Canada Winter Games. The young people of our province represent the vitality of our province. They are the hope for our future and they have done us all proud as they brought back the Canada Games flag. I hope they enjoy their stay here today. They will no doubt note, of course, that the only kind of sporting activity that goes on in this chamber is philosophic dueling and verbal gymnastics. Beyond that, we certainly do not achieve the high level of success that our athletes have achieved.

SPORTS EXCHANGE PROGRAM

Mr. Warner: Additionally, I am very pleased, on behalf of my party, to welcome those athletes who have come from our twinned province in China. That twinning, in my view, is something about which we can all be very proud. I hope Mr. Xhiang, the members of the York University staff and the athletes who are here enjoy their stay and will take back with them to China many happy memories and, of course, will pay us a visit on another occasion.

ONTARIO SOIL MAINTENANCE GRANT

Mr. Laughren: I would like to respond to the statement by the Minister of Agriculture and Food (Mr. Riddell). The minister stood in his place today and made reference to a $30-million federal-provincial program to aid farmers to adjust to the rationalization of the tobacco industry.

A couple of weeks ago, this party laid before the Treasurer (Mr. Nixon) a program under which, if he added one cent of tax per cigarette, it would raise $200 million in Ontario. We stated in our position paper that one half of that $200 million, $100 million, would go for adjustment policies for farmers. I think some of it should go as well to the tobacco processing industry. The other $100 million should go to health-related problems associated with tobacco. It could go into the stop-smoking clinics and any other programs that are related to helping people to stop smoking.

This is not an attempt to injure the tobacco farmers of the province. Our proposal is an attempt to do two things at once: first, to allow farmers to adjust to the new reality of a decrease in smoking; and second, to deal with the health problems related to smoking.

In Ontario now the provincial tax for cigarettes is under three cents per cigarette. That is the lowest cigarette tax in all of Canada. What we suggested was that raising that to four cents a cigarette, an increase of a little over a cent a cigarette, would raise $200 million and put us at about the average of cigarette taxes in all the various provinces across Canada.

It would not be the kind of tax that would be too difficult for people who simply have a great deal of difficulty quitting, but it would be a real incentive for people to stop smoking. As well, we think there are about 12,000 smoking-related deaths per year in Ontario. This would go at least some way towards alleviating that problem.

The response of the Treasurer was to increase the tobacco tax in the province not one jot. I understand the constituency he represents, but I think he allowed that to cloud his judgement in this regard.

I am simply saying to the government yet again that it would not have been crippling to the industry. It would have provided a major source of funds, both for health-related programs and for the industry.

The Minister of Agriculture and Food talks about a $3-million Ontario program. That is a pittance. Even with the federal government, we are talking about only $30 million. Our proposal would have raised $200 million and certainly makes the efforts of the Minister of Agriculture and Food look pretty puny. What the Minister of Agriculture and Food is talking about is not a program; it is a poor excuse for one.

ORAL QUESTIONS

CONSTITUTIONAL DISCUSSIONS

Mr. Grossman: My question is for the Premier. Like the rest of us, I am sure, the Premier will have had an opportunity now to see the anguished and pained words of the former Prime Minister with regard to the Meech Lake accord.

Mr. Foulds: He's not capable of either.

Interjections.

Mr. Grossman: The Premier may not be sensitive to the words of the former Prime Minister, but I think any sensible reading of the

article will indicate a great deal of pain and anguish on behalf of the former Prime Minister.

I want to admit to the Premier that our party has been unsuccessful in trying to argue the case for public hearings in Ontario. I do not know: it could be because he has thought our arguments are without merit, it could be because he has thought they were too partisan in nature; but whatever, we have been unsuccessful to date in convincing him to have public hearings.

I wonder if the Premier today might take advantage of the important contribution made by the former Prime Minister and say, "Yes, these kinds of views ought to be heard in a public forum in Ontario," and admit that it might be the right time to have public hearings in Ontario on the Meech Lake accord.

Hon. Mr. Peterson: I not only appreciate the sympathetic words expressed by the Leader of the Opposition for the former Prime Minister, I also have sympathy for his pain and anguish in this particular regard. I did not have the same sense when I read the article; and yes, I read it with great interest. Canadian politics always fascinate me. We see these strange and new alliances that develop from time to time as issues of public policy emerge.

I would say to the Leader of the Opposition that the former Prime Minister's views have been expressed in a very public place, the most public of places, and I am one who welcomes his contribution. I think he has every right to express his views on the Meech Lake accord, as does the honourable member and anyone else. There is now developing in the country a substantial debate. We started that yesterday here in the House on the principles.

At the moment, we do not have the specific wording. I say to my honourable friend that we will have a full debate in this House, beyond dispute. It will take as much time as is necessary. My friend felt that I was hiding from him yesterday the fact that we have three years to approve of this in this province. It is in the Constitution and I assumed my friend knew that at the time. I apologize for my omission in that regard.

Mr. Grossman: I was the first one to tell the House about that fact.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Hon. Mr. Peterson: I made a miscalculation. I had assumed the honourable members opposite had read the Constitution some time ago. I took, in a sense, judicial notice of that fact. I could have been wrong.

In that regard, I look forward to a full debate in this House. I believe the members should call on any advice necessary. I believe we should take the time that is necessary in order to have that full discussion. One of the things that is obvious to me, particularly from the debate yesterday and other discussions, is that part of our responsibility is to be not only involved in answering questions as best we can but engaging in public education as well.

A number of questions have been raised. I think I know the answer to those and I think they are quite obvious. Others may disagree with those, of course, but I think everyone had every right to ask those questions and to put forward their views as they saw fit. I think we will have to arrange between the House leaders at some time in the future how we go about making sure that this debate receives the full attention of all members, that everyone has an opportunity to express his views and to get whatever other advice is necessary in the formulation of those views.

Mr. Grossman: I am mystified as to how the Premier can take the position this afternoon that the answers to those questions are obvious. The answers to the questions that this party has been posing, that Eugene Forsey and others have been posing, have begged different answers. The questions got different answers from Premier Bourassa and the Premier of Ontario, from Ontario's Attorney General (Mr. Scott) and the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs in Quebec.

Yesterday, the answers to a lot of the questions we raised were delivered by Pierre Elliott Trudeau, who answered most of our concerns and the concerns expressed by many people by saying our concerns are justified. So the answers, with respect, are not obvious and all that has been happening across this country is answers that largely contradict each other.

Mr. Speaker: And the question is?

Mr. Grossman: Given that and given the concerns of the former Prime Minister, who says those Canadians who fought for a single Canada, bilingual and multicultural, can say goodbye to their dream, I wonder if the Premier will not agree today that his

interpretation, the

interpretation of Eugene Forsey and others ought simply to be put to the test of public hearings, not after a document is signed but before?

Hon. Mr. Peterson: The answer is that I do not think that is possible. We are meeting next Tuesday and that is the reality of the situation. As I said to my honourable friend, we will have a full debate in this House before it is formally ratified.

Again, with respect to the former Prime Minister, I respect his views on the subject. Frankly, they are views with which I and a substantial number of other people disagree. Some are political and some are legal

interpretations. Mr. Trudeau had a very strong view of this country. The member will recall he put forward proposals some five and one half years ago that were adopted by nine out of 10 provinces, not 10. His vision was universally rejected in Quebec at that time.

Now we have an opportunity to bring Quebec into the Constitution. Some believe that is a worthwhile objective. Some believe that accommodations have to be made in order to do that. Some would disagree on the extent of those accommodations. I say to my honourable friend, I think they are reasonable accommodations.

In response to one of his questions yesterday, `Will it, for example, prevent the federal government from engaging in national social programs?" the answer is a very clear no. It does not prevent that, in my opinion and in the opinion of many other people. There is no difference, for example, in the Canada assistance plan, the Canada pension plan and a variety of other programs.

I think it accommodates the realities of this country, I think it builds a co-operative framework to solve problems in the future and I think it is a progressive approach to that. If the member does not I am interested in hearing his view, obviously, but that is my view on the subject.

Mr. Grossman: The question, if I could have the Premier's attention for a second, is very much not whether we want Quebec to sign the constitutional document but the conditions and price to be paid for it. He has given his

interpretation that it is a very little price.

The former Prime Minister's

interpretation is, "Say goodbye to the dream of one Canada." As someone who devoted almost all his career to fighting for the constitutional arrangements which I suppose would speak for Quebec and would serve Quebec as he interprets it in this

article today, surely his opinions are extremely important.

Might I simply put this proposition to the Premier --

Mr. Speaker: By way of question?

Mr. Grossman: -- by way of a final supplementary. The former Prime Minister has accused current political leaders in this country of lacking in courage. I wonder if the Premier could respond to that by showing the courage to have public hearings and put his views and the views of Mr. Trudeau, Mr. Forsey, Mr. Bourassa, Mr. Pawley and other constitutional experts before the public, so that everyone may know the accord that he proposes to sign as soon as next week. Is that not a fair test of courage?

Hon. Mr. Peterson: I read the

article with great interest. I heard some of the adjectives used to describe provincial Premiers who were unanimous on the question, and to describe the present Prime Minister as well in that regard. I will not comment on the adjectives that were used to describe the situation, but suffice it to say that I think there is unanimity across this country by the current political leadership. It is unanimous, as someone said yesterday. Regardless of party -- Conservative, New Democratic, Social Credit; Liberal as well -- contemporary leaders gathered in a room trying to solve contemporary problems that will have a major impact on our future.

Let my honourable friend who has posed some questions have the courage to give us his views on the subject. He quoted Eugene Forsey. I can tell my honourable friend my views on the subject. I will tell him to discuss it as much as he would possibly like. It is an interest of great concern to me.

Mr. Grossman: You were in the room. Why don't you tell us what documents you think you signed? You haven't shared them yet.

Hon. Mr. Peterson: I think I have the sense of the Premiers, the Prime Minister, as well as the expert advice we have gathered up; and that is considerable across the country, Mr. Speaker. I am very happy to share that with you, defend it any time or listen in this House for a gathering of the best distilled wisdom that all the members and outside experts have to offer.

Mr. Grossman: You had your chance yesterday. You won't have public hearings. Why don't you use your chance? Why don't you stand and defend it?

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Mr. Grossman: You haven't defended it for one minute yet. You have had all the rhetoric but no defence.

Mr. Speaker: Does the Leader of the Opposition have a new question? New question.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr. Rowe: I have a question for the Minister of Health. I asked the minister last week and today I wonder if he is now prepared to explain to the residents of Barrie how the government could increase its civil service by some 5,000 people yet continue to not provide funds for a new hospital.

Hon. Mr. Elston: We are providing a number of new programs around this province and throughout the ministries. The question of delivering new services always requires us to provide for the employment of new people. The programs cannot be delivered, quite frankly, without the hiring of new people. I can understand the member's concern about the need for a hospital. We are looking at that, and I thank the honourable gentleman for bringing it to our attention at this time.

Mr. Rowe: Yesterday the board of directors of the Royal Victoria Hospital, in a desperate measure to try and deal with the overwhelming demand for hospital care, reluctantly approved a portable to deal with emergency cases. Perhaps the minister has been watching too many M*A*S*H reruns. Are portables, instead of desperately needed funding for a hospital, the minister's new health care policy?

Hon. Mr. Elston: I think the honourable gentleman would want to know that this is not for the emergency patients but it is a facility that will be used for triage, for nonemergency patients in the emergency room areas. I do not find it a very satisfactory situation.

I can understand the pressures the board has come under and I commend the board for taking the necessary steps in the light of the space problems that it has brought to my attention and that the honourable gentleman has brought to our attention. We are looking at what is available and possible there.

It is not the first time we have heard about this. It is not the first time the honourable gentleman has brought this to our attention, nor is it the first time that a number of people who have been members for the Barrie area have brought it to the attention of the government. However, we are planning a very careful allocation of resources. Together with my colleagues in cabinet, we review what is possible and appropriate in terms of redevelopment for capital structures, which are obviously run down after years of neglect.

Mr. Rowe: Overcrowding at this hospital has been so severe that patients have had to be left in the corridors in the past, and the minister knows how dangerous that is. Even with this portable by the hospital's own report, "greater than 10 admissions would require allocation of patients to the corridors on the wards." This is the first hospital in Ontario with a portable.

When is the minister going to stop playing politics and get on with the job of a new hospital in Barrie?

Hon. Mr. Elston: We are not playing politics with this particular program. As I have told this gentleman before, it takes an awful lot of work to deal with the planning that is required to put in place an appropriate facility. I appreciate that a lot of people have done planning over the years and they have worked very hard with respect to announcements that have been made before. We are very sensitive to the problems he has brought to our attention and they are being addressed in co-operation with the Premier (Mr. Peterson), the Treasurer (Mr. Nixon) and the rest of our cabinet colleagues.

We will be advising the member further if there are any development plans to be announced. He will be, like every other member who has a facility to be announced, invited to any announcement. He will be thanked for his participation. I appreciate the dedication of the staff there. l appreciate the board, in making its decision to move to do some temporary implementations, is working under very restrictive conditions.

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

Mr. Rae: My question is to the Minister of Labour. I want to ask the minister about the very tragic death which took place in February of a 22-year-old worker who quit school in order to pay for his disabled family. He was killed on a work site at Harbourfront, the Huang and Danczkay project, which was started illegally without a building permit. Stefano Rizzi died on February 10, 1987.

On January 29, an inspector from the Ministry of Labour attended the site, was there for three hours, and issued several work orders stating that the orders should be complied with by no later than 4:30, Thursday, January 29. In addition, the company was ordered under

section 7 of the Occupational Health and Safety Act to cause a health and safety representative to be selected by the union or unions. The inspector came on the site at 5:45 in the morning and left at 12:05.

Despite the fact that the inspector said the order should be complied with by 4:30 in the afternoon, he did not return. Apparently no effort was made by the ministry to find out whether the company had complied with these orders.

Can the minister explain to us why an inspector would go on a site, issue several orders with respect to health and safety and then not discover whether those orders had been complied with by the company?

Hon. Mr. Wrye: As the honourable gentleman knows, we have been making every effort, and indeed are continuing to make every effort, to properly staff the various branches of the occupational health and safety division.

When the government took office some 23 months ago, we had 66 funded positions for inspectors in the construction health and safety branch. The number of funded positions is now 111. The number of individuals we have hired is over 90 today. There have been recent competitions and there have literally been thousands of applicants. We are hiring just as quickly as we can in order to bring that branch, and indeed the whole division, up to the levels that it ought to have.

That being said, the honourable gentleman raises a very serious matter. The inspector had been there. The honourable gentleman has noted that the inspection was a very thorough one. A number of orders were left and indeed the inspector spent some three and a half hours there. The reason we are hiring additional people is exactly the problem of the lack of follow-up to which the honourable leader of the third party alludes. There is a terrible backup in terms of the number of construction sites we have and our ability to get them inspected.

I can only say to the honourable member and to the House that we are hiring just as quickly as possible. I have asked that all hiring that has been approved be expedited so that we can get on with the job of reducing the cycle of inspections from its present level -- I believe it has dropped below eight weeks to seven or six weeks -- and be able to do those follow-up visits in a timely fashion.

Mr. Rae: I did not hear an answer to my question. This death took place nearly two years after the minister took office. There have been 41 construction deaths in this province this last year. To read the story of Stefano Rizzi, to hear the evidence at the inquest and to hear the recommendations of the coroner's jury is to think that literally no change has taken place in this province since the government took over.

I would like to ask the minister a basic question. Can he tell us why, if the record of the government is so good, it is apparently the practice of the ministry to issue orders and then not to establish whether those orders have been complied with? Can the minister answer that question?

Hon. Mr. Wrye: First of all, I want to say I am pleased to see that the leader of the third party, as opposed to the members of the official opposition, understands that it is important to add additional personnel. It is not surprising that the members of the official opposition, who for so many years starved the occupational health and safety division --

Mr. Gillies: You aren't hiring one inspector we didn't have in 1981 so don't give us that garbage. You are resuming it to the staffing level of five years ago.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Hon. Mr. Wrye: The member for Brantford (Mr. Gillies), who was so busy criticizing the Treasurer (Mr. Nixon) on this matter yesterday, is inaccurate today just as he was yesterday. I think the member for Brantford and the official opposition are a little embarrassed by their doubletalk on this issue.

Mr. Speaker: Order. Does the minister have a response?

Hon. Mr. Wrye: Yes. I would say to the honourable member, who raises a very important and serious question, that in most cases -- in fact, I would hope in all cases -- follow-up visits to check on compliance are done. On a number of occasions, I will say quite candidly to the honourable gentleman, those follow-up visits are not done in as timely a fashion as they ought to be. That is why we are hiring the additional personnel the official opposition has objected to so greatly.

I can say to the honourable gentleman that while he thinks nothing has changed, the fact of the matter is that we have more than 200 people in the occupational health and safety division today who were not in that division 23 months ago. In the construction health and safety branch alone, the increase is in the range of 80 to 85 per cent.

Mr. Rae: I want to keep going with this question because I do not think we are getting an answer. I would like to ask the minister if he can tell us whether it is the intention of the ministry to lay any charges against the company in this matter.

Hon. Mr. Wrye: I am looking at my briefing notes. As the honourable gentleman knows -- and he was raising this matter in the case of another incident -- normally the consideration of charges in the case where there is a coroner's inquest follows the decision of the coroner's jury.

Mr. Martel: Except in Sudbury you lay the charges first.

Hon. Mr. Wrye: I see my friend the member for Sudbury East (Mr. Martel) remembers the other incident, in which it happened in a different way. It is a different kind of charge, but the consideration of charges under the Occupational Health and Safety Act usually follows the inquest. It will be doing so in this case. These matters are under consideration and the appropriate action will be taken by the legal services branch once it has reviewed the evidence that has emerged from the inquest.

Mr. Speaker: New question. The member for York South.

Mr. Rae: I had intended to ask a different minister a question, but I find the answers of the minister so completely unsatisfactory that I think we have to get to the bottom of this question.

What does the minister intend to do about the recommendation from the coroner's jury? Instead of relying on the ministry, since it is obvious that the ministry cannot do the job and that there is no longer any faith in the ability of the ministry to do the job, would it not make sense to impose a safety levy on all major construction projects, which would mean that there would then be enough funds to support the establishment of workers' safety officers on site all the time to reduce health and safety infractions?

Where we have workers working without guard rails, workers lifting heavy propane contrary to the Occupational Health and Safety Act and against the orders of the Minister of Labour, when we have these kinds of things going on, does he not think it worth while having the companies put some money in so we start saving some lives on the major construction projects in this province?

Hon. Mr. Wrye: If the honourable member looks at the Occupational Health and Safety Act, he will find there is a levy paid to the consolidated revenue fund, which was first established, I believe, at $4 million in 1978. That levy is paid out of the workers' compensation fund, which, as the honourable gentleman knows, is paid by employers. Last year, if memory serves me correctly, the levy was $7.2 million.

Mr. Rae: The minister is ignoring the problem. The problem is that the inspectors go in, find there is a problem and then are not able to enforce what they find. We found in the case of this inquest that it was clearly established that the young worker involved, 22 years old, supporting his entire family, including a disabled father and two younger brothers who were in school, was doing something which was clearly against the regulations and apparently against the earlier orders of the Ministry of Labour.

Just what additional steps is the minister prepared to take to start saving some lives in this province? That is the issue. That is his job, and it is time he started to do it.

Hon. Mr. Wrye: I have a little problem remaining tolerant when l hear that kind of nonsense coming from that honourable gentleman over there, suggesting that those of us over here or any member of this Legislature does not care about the health and safety of workers. That comment is really quite disgraceful. I have spent the last 23 months of my life working to improve health and safety in the work place. Everything we have done may not always be right, may not be perfect, but we have worked very hard.

I can tell the honourable gentleman, if he wants to bother listening, that we have hired over 200 people in the occupational health and safety division and will hire more during this fiscal year. One of the things I can say about this Treasurer, this Premier (Mr. Peterson) and this government is that we care about working people in this province and we are matching our concern with the kind of funding necessary to get the job done.

Mr. Rae: If I can be charitable to the minister, the question is not whether anybody in this House cares more than other people. The question is whether the job is being done and whether the inspections are being followed up with enforcement. That is the question.

For generations, we have had Ministers of Labour who cared about a number of questions. That is not the issue and the minister knows that. That is the frustration of this coroner's jury, because what this coroner's jury said was that the follow-up did not happen. The practice clearly was not followed in the industry. This is a major construction project in a very high-profile area. Everybody knows about it. There are several other major construction projects going on. They make a practical suggestion.

What I would like to know is, what does the minister intend to do to make sure that the act is followed, that it is enforced, that lives are saved and that the tragedy affecting the Rizzi family will not be happening in tens and tens of families across this province because of actions that are not taken that can be taken? That is the tragedy and that is where the ball is, right over there where the minister has the responsibility.

Hon. Mr. Wrye: I want to say again to the honourable gentleman, this is an imperfect world and it is an imperfect practice. I cannot offer a specific reason that follow-up was delayed in this matter. I can say that our ability to follow up, to ensure that compliance is being obtained, is better today by about 85 per cent than it was two years ago.

I think the member would want to know that one of the important things as we hire additional inspectors in the construction health and safety branch -- and hire them we have been and hire them we will -- is that we make sure the people we bring on, the men and women who join that branch and, indeed, the occupational health and safety division, are the best qualified and the best educated people we can get.

We are going to get that job done, and very sad and tragic cases like the Rizzi case ought to give us even more reason to get on with the job as fast as possible.

Mr. Gordon: I am sure the minister is aware that the worker's family cannot sue in civil law. They can only look to workers' compensation for a very minuscule compensation for the death of Mr. Rizzi. I am sure the minister knows it is small comfort to them to know that occupational health and safety inspector did not go back to the work place.

Would the minister tell this House in plain language exactly what orders he has given as a minister to see that occupational health and safety inspectors do go back to construction work sites in this province now and in the future?

Hon. Mr. Wrye: One of the things we have done, which that party over there never did, is to get some construction health and safety inspectors. I may have some disagreements with my friend in the third party, but the disagreements with the official opposition on this issue are just a little more profound.

With the 66 inspectors this government inherited, that inspector would never have been able to inspect that site or a lot of others in the first place, because that inspector would not have existed under the former government.

The inspections were completed and the follow-up should have occurred. We are doing everything we can to get the new construction inspectors on stream just as quickly as we can, to get them trained so that very soon -- within two years -- we will have double the number of construction inspectors that we hired.

Mr. Gillies: The project should not have been under construction at the time. Talk to your friend Ivan.

Hon. Mr. Wrye: To hear the member for Brantford tell it, who criticizes us for hiring new people, under his regime we would not have hired in the first place.

Mr. Gordon: What we heard the minister say is that he has done nothing. That is what he just said. He said, "We have done nothing." All he talked about was two years ago. That does not count. All he talked about was, "We are going to hire some more safety inspectors." He did not tell us what he is doing to ensure that cases like Mr. Rizzi do not happen again in this province.

He is not saying we are going to ensure that construction sites are inspected within one month of startup. He is not saying we are ready to set aside a certain amount of money from construction projects to see that there are enough inspectors and that sites will be inspected. He is doing nothing. What is he going to do? Tell us today.

Hon. Mr. Wrye: When we took office --

Interjections.

Mr. Gillies: Another history lesson. We want a straight answer.

Hon. Mr. Wrye: If the members want an answer, they are going to get it.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Hon. Mr. Wrye: When we took office, we inherited a policy that did not even have compliance, in which orders issued --

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Order. We do not want to disturb the member for Sudbury East. New question?

Mr. Martel: I have a question for the Minister of Labour regarding Koolatron, on the same issue my leader has just been talking about.

Outside the Legislature yesterday, referring to the company, the minister said, "They are now taking action they should have taken long ago." Since these companies owned by Kulkarni and his brother have a history of significant health and safety problems, and since his officials have been in there occasion after occasion after occasion, will the minister table in the House all the orders issued and the compliance dates? Will he also tell me and this Legislature why it took an anonymous phone call to get the action going last week, rather than the many visits made by his inspectors, which led to a great big fat zero in change? Why did it take an anonymous call? Where were his inspectors?

Hon. Mr. Wrye: The case of Koolatron was out for inspection. The inspection had not yet occurred; it was scheduled to occur. Other issues, thought to be more urgent, had taken priority. The actions of the ministry have been swift and direct in this matter. We have issued a number of orders, and in fact, I think we have protected the health and safety of workers at Koolatron.

I can tell the honourable gentleman that at the time of the last inspection, the report of that inspection indicates there were no health and safety concerns. Indeed, the health problems our inspector found very quickly when she went in last Wednesday or Thursday were not present at the time of the last inspection.

Mr. Martel: The minister has to be kidding. He is a joke. His ministry developed a policy called code 99, which for two years I have said ends up eliminating inspections unless there is an injury or a work stoppage. There is no inspection in company after company after company. His code 99: this program, by the way, is called crisis management by his own staff.

I want to know what cycle of inspection existed for all these companies owned by this same bird, who the minister has had plenty of problems with in the past. What testing was done in all of his companies, and why did the inspections reveal the problems only after an anonymous phone call? In fact, why did it take an anonymous phone call?

Hon. Mr. Wrye: First, I believe they are on a six- or 12-month cycle, I am not sure.

Mr. Martel: Then they should have been inspected, shouldn't they?

Hon. Mr. Wrye: If the honourable member would just pipe down for a second, he might get an answer to his question.

Interjection.

Hon. Mr. Wrye: The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Grossman) should not even try. He does not know anything about the issue, so please ignore it. At least the honourable member knows a little bit about what he is talking about.

I am informed that in the Koolatron case, after a number of orders which were reissued during the regime of the previous government, the company did finally come into compliance in terms of both the assessment and the control order for isocyanates. The information I have is that it changed its process quite dramatically in February of this year; as a result of that, the company required a new assessment and control program. Neither were done.

I can assure the honourable member that every action will be taken at Koolatron, Vacform and indeed any other related company to ensure that the health and safety of the workers at those companies gets the highest priority.

IDEA CORP.

Mr. Pope: My question is to the Premier, the leader of a government that secretly signed in writing an agreement to the softwood lumber tariff and then did nothing for the lumber workers, that is doing nothing for the laid-off miners, a Liberal government that is now delivering health care out of portables in this province, a Liberal government that is obviously failing in occupational health and safety.

I have a question about another Liberal boondoggle, the mismanagement and mishandling of the IDEA Corp. funds, and specifically why the Premier continues to be involved in a coverup of this mismanagement of the public's money.

I am specifically referring to the Biddell report, which was announced in this Legislature on October 14, 1986. The minister at the time said, "I have indicated to Mr. Biddell that his report should be completed as quickly as possible." During estimates in December, we were told that this report was basically complete and that in a week or so, when Mr. Biddell returned from holidays, it would be finalized. Now we see, in the auditor's report on Graham Software in February 1987, that the Biddell report existed and was dated as of February 1987.

It is three months later. Why does the Premier continue to refuse to release this report to the members of the Legislature?

Hon. Mr. Peterson: Frankly, I do not know the status of that, but I will be happy to make inquiries and get back to the honourable member.

Mr. Gillies: We in the opposition want to know what possible interest this government would have, after the two scandals it has faced arising out of the IDEA portfolio -- it is now clearly sitting on Mr. Biddell's report, which the committee was told during estimates would be finished within weeks of the December holidays -- in prolonging the agony and trying to cover up the whole mess.

Hon. Mr. Peterson: We have no interest at all in doing the things the honourable members, in concert, suggest. Let me say that we are still in the process of cleaning up messes they created; I am happy to share it with them.

GOVERNMENT PROCUREMENT

Mr. Laughren: I have a question for the Treasurer, who would know that when it comes to the purchase by the public sector of goods and services, a lot of that purchasing is of imported goods. The purchase of imported goods and services by the public sector represents at least $5 billion a year and 150,000 jobs.

When the government was in opposition, it had a government procurement policy. As a matter of fact, it was a half-decent government procurement policy. Now that the Liberals have been in government for two years, could the Treasurer tell us where that government procurement policy is? What is it now?

Hon. Mr. Nixon: We do procurement on the basis of a tendering process and we select the lowest tender in most cases or, if there is a good reason not to, an alternative.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Nickel Belt would like to ask a supplementary.

Mr. Laughren: It is always difficult trying to nail the Treasurer, but I did not know it would be this difficult on government procurement.

The Treasurer should know that his Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology (Mr. O'Neil) was in Ottawa last week at a convention dealing with government procurement, at which he said government procurement was essential in the whole cause of nation-building.

Aside from that rather grandiose goal, since there is a 10 per cent preferment for government purchasing for suppliers that are Canadian -- not just Ontario; Canadian suppliers -- I wonder whether the Treasurer can explain to us why it is that with 55,000 contractors who dealt with the Ontario government in the latest year for which we could get figures, in only 20 cases did the 10 per cent preferment apply. What in the world kind of government procurement policy is that given that there is so much at stake?

Hon. Mr. Nixon: I think the honourable member, particularly since he has become Treasury critic, will find on more careful investigation that the process is more complex than just a flat 10 per cent. As a matter of fact, so-called foreign firms often have a very large establishment in Canada, in Ontario.

We have a fairly elaborate formula based on the amount of dollars committed in investment here, the number of people employed and the amount of research done that permits us on a basis of formula to establish what the allocation is to our own economy on the basis of a corporation or a manufacturing concern, no matter where its home base is. On that basis, we are able to weight the particular tenders on a basis that is for the best interest of the people who live in this province and work here and would like to have the benefit of the advantages.

I have more that I would like to say but I see that the honourable member has capitulated.

FARM TAX REDUCTION PROGRAM

Mr. Reycraft: I would like to ask the Minister of Agriculture and Food about changes to the farm tax reduction program that were announced last week in the budget of the Treasurer (Mr. Nixon). I am aware of the fact that proposals were made to change the program five or six years ago and I know that considerable concern was expressed about those proposals. I would like to know how the current changes differ from those that were proposed, I believe in 1982.

Hon. Mr. Riddell: The changes announced in the budget specifically address the concerns that were raised when the proposal was made, I believe back in 1982. The $126 million we will spend on the program will compensate the farmers for the disproportionate amount of taxes they pay by virtue of their rather large land and building base.

We have made a number of changes. First and foremost, we consulted with the farmers through their organizations, such as the Ontario Federation of Agriculture and the Christian Farmers Federation of Ontario. We also consulted with municipal organizations, such as the Association of Municipalities of Ontario. With the previous administration, I have to say that consultation was a dictionary word only.

The farmers will pay their taxes on their land and their farm buildings. They will also pay their taxes on the farm home and the acre lot that the home sits on. But they are talking about value. What this government did was leave the farm home and the acre lot that the home sits on assessed at farm value. That is where the one major change came that the previous administration did not make.

LAYOFFS

Mr. Brandt: My question is for the Premier with respect to recent layoffs that have occurred in my riding. The Premier may be aware that Mueller Ltd., which has been located in Sarnia in a manufacturing facility for some 75 years, has indicated there is going to be a plant closing on November 30. This comes on the heels of many other layoffs in my community that I believe the Premier is aware of. This large number of layoffs is obviously causing a great deal of concern in my riding, which I am sure is shared by the member for Lambton (Mr. D. W.

Smith), who sits on the other side of the House but has not raised this question, to my knowledge, with the Premier in the House or at any other time.

I would like to know what initiatives the Premier and his government have taken in the budget or in the throne speech that might help the laid-off workers, not only in Sarnia and Lambton but also in northern Ontario and in many other parts of this province, who are finding no help whatsoever from this government when they suffer from these kinds of layoffs.

Hon. Mr. Peterson: If the honourable member looks at the throne speech, the budget and the variety of initiatives that have been undertaken, I think he will see a very constructive approach to try to deal with some of these very difficult situations.

The member will know there is industrial restructuring going on, and on balance the picture is very positive. That is not, of course, a sufficient answer to those people who are laid off in specific situations; but we are finding that a lot of those people are being re-employed very quickly in a number of the communities. I cannot make that statement universally, but in general cases, there is substantial pickup of those people who have been displaced because of closedowns.

That being said, we have a number of programs with respect to retraining of older workers, skills training programs and an industrial restructuring commissioner we hope to be able to talk about in the very near future, who we think will have a very positive impact and will take a positive view towards helping those people.

Mr. Brandt: I have to tell the Premier that the words he is offering to this House today offer very little in the way of hope to those laid-off workers.

Is his government prepared to offer incentives or some kind of inducements to communities that have been hard hit by way of layoffs, either in terms of moving a portion or a part of a ministry to a community in a circumstance such as I have described or by being prepared to assist in some kind of industrial expansion in some of those communities that require those new jobs to offset these kinds of layoffs? What we need is less rhetoric and a little more action.

Hon. Mr. Peterson: I want to thank the honourable member very much for advice on this very specific approach to solving the problem. Let me tell the honourable member, I think this government has done more than any other government in the history of this province to address those particular problems. We have used government jobs. What he is standing up and saying, and has been saying for some time -- as a matter of fact, it is a contribution he has made on more than one occasion -- is that we should move government jobs to Sarnia. Why did the honourable member not move any there when he was in the cabinet and had some position of influence?

We have lots of communities with problems, across the province, and I understand that. We have moved into priority areas, particularly in northern Ontario, that are hard hit. I can tell the member that we are sensitive to the problems in various communities and I can assure him that I am prepared to work with him, the mayor or the community in any way to develop alternative strategies to deal with the problems, community by community.

I think the ministries have shown that sensitivity to addressing the specific problems. If the honourable member is asking me if we are going to move the Treasury to Sarnia tomorrow, the answer is no. But why did the honourable member not move the Ministry of the Environment to Sarnia when he had the opportunity, or does he think clean drinking water is just a yuppie issue?

INSURANCE

Mr. Swart: I have sent a copy of a letter from a William Cox of St. Catharines to the Minister of Financial Institutions. Accompanying that letter is another from the Metropolitan Life Insurance Co., which it is sending to all of its policyholders. I want to ask him a question about that.

The letter from Metropolitan Life states that unless the policyholders contact Metropolitan Life and notify it otherwise -- and usually they have only a two-week limit -- the company will convert all the policyholders' dividends, which are in their name, to additional paid-up insurance policies. This means, of course, that many people who do not pay attention to the nonregistered form letter, or who are away, will have the conversion of their money to costly additional insurance they do not want.

Would the minister not agree that Metropolitan Life is using this unscrupulous and perhaps even illegal procedure to convert millions of dollars of policyholders' money into high-cost insurance for its own benefit? Can this giant insurance company, which is the second largest in the world, do as it likes with other people's money?

Hon. Mr. Kwinter: I want to thank the member for Welland-Thorold for the courtesy of sending me the letter. I have to admit I had not seen it before and I had not seen the problem before. From what I can tell, what they are doing is making an offer to convert the policy premiums into additional insurance, but they are using what is known as the negative option. The negative option is something that we have objected to in the past, and I will be happy to refer this to the superintendent of insurance and get back to the member with an answer.

Mr. Swart: The minister has obviously already noted that on page 2 of that letter they have this reverse option. Does he not think those two situations should be reversed so that if anybody wants his dividends converted to paid-up policies, he should have to sign for that? If the minister agrees, will he notify Metropolitan Life that no policyholder may have his dividends used to buy additional insurance unless he signs for it, and will he order that any conversions that have been made by Metropolitan Life without written authorization be reconverted to accessible dividends?

Hon. Mr. Kwinter: The member's position is well taken, and I have undertaken to refer this to the superintendent of insurance to take whatever action is appropriate.

Mr. Cureatz: In the absence of the Premier, I would like to direct this question to the Minister of Financial Institutions. Is the minister aware that, since January of this year, I have had correspondence with his ministry and himself concerning the problem that senior citizens are having in getting insurance on their personal property while living in a senior residence?

Hon. Mr. Kwinter: If I gathered his question, I think the member for Durham East wanted to know if I was aware that they were having a problem that he informed me of. Yes, I am aware of it.

Mr. Cureatz: As a supplementary, would the minister be so kind as to respond in this chamber, and at least to follow up in writing to me on my correspondence to him from May 1, when I posed the following question:

"Are you aware that insurance companies make a practice of imposing a surcharge on coverage of the effects of senior citizens living in residences and deny them their independence by tacking this coverage on the policies of the next of kin; and further, what measures do you propose to ensure that senior citizens living in residences have insurance at the same rates and under the same conditions as the public at large?"

Hon. Mr. Kwinter: The member will know that a senior citizen living in a nursing home is not living under the same conditions as someone living in his own private home. The nursing home has access to strange people who come and go.

Mr. Cureatz: Senior citizens' residence.

Hon. Mr. Kwinter: Well, a senior citizens' residence is the same thing. It is a multi-residence facility where people come and go and are total strangers to the person involved. It is a very difficult situation. It is something that we have referred to the superintendent of insurance, and there are various options available.

One is to do what was suggested and have the family's home owner policy include the senior citizen's possessions. The institution itself, the senior citizens' residence, could extend its coverage to that person; all valuables could be put into a safety deposit box; things of that kind could be investigated.

It is a very difficult situation because it is not like every other household. It is a household that has people coming and going and it is very difficult to maintain security. It is something that the superintendent is looking into. It is not a widespread problem, but I certainly appreciate that it is a problem and we are trying to come up with a resolution.

HERITAGE LANGUAGES

Mr. Grande: My question is for the Minister of Education. It is in regard to the heritage languages program, Bill 80, or the new policy position of the Liberal Party on the teaching of nonofficial Canadian languages in our schools.

The minister's record on this issue right now is a series of broken promises and a lack of commitment. I want to remind him that in June 1986 he said that about the end of the summer he was going to have this new policy. Nothing happened. In February, he said that at the end of February he was going to have it. Nothing happened. The Premier promised publicly on television that by the end of March it was going to be done. Nothing happened. Again, by the end of April, nothing happened.

Can the minister tell us whether he has this new policy? Is he serious about bringing forth this new policy, or has he been mugged, as the Minister of Citizenship and Culture (Ms. Munro), has been mugged, on the way to the cabinet room?

Hon. Mr. Conway: In a quiet and dispassionate way, I want to tell my friend the member for Oakwood that the paper is prepared. In fact, it is at this very moment being translated. I expect to be releasing it within a very few days.

Mr. Grande: I really would like to believe the minister.

Mr. Speaker: Try another supplementary.

Mr. Grande: The only problem is that I had a note from the minister at the beginning of May. The minister said that possibly in two weeks it would be done, by May 25. We have passed May 25, and the minister is now telling me in two weeks again.

Since the minister already knows that the standing committee on social development is going to be dealing with Bill 80 for two weeks of public hearings, will he make sure that his statements, plus any of the research his ministry has done in regard to the western provinces -- Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba -- which have had these programs since 1971, will be coming forward to the standing committee on social development?

Hon. Mr. Conway: It seems to me that the member makes a reasonable request. I will make every effort to accommodate it. I want him to know that this matter of heritage languages is something about which we feel very positively on this side, as I know my friend the member for Oakwood does.

Mr. Warner: It's a stall. It's beginning to sound like rent review.

Hon. Mr. Conway: I want to assure my friend the member for Scarborough-Ellesmere that he need not be so excited this afternoon. He will have his opportunity for excitement, I expect, in the not-too-distant future. But I have to say to my friend the member for Oakwood that I will do everything I can --

Mr. McClellan: Rattle, rattle, rattle. Another chicken-hawk.

Hon. Mr. Conway: I want to be fair, on the near anniversary date, to say to my friends the member for Bellwoods and the member for Oakwood that I will do everything I can to meet the request. I want the honourable member to know the paper is ready. It is being prepared at this moment for some translation. It will be circulated as quickly as I can arrange.

I regret that it has taken a little longer than I had expected, but I want the honourable member to know our commitment is strong and we will make every effort to prepare the information for him immediately.

AIR AMBULANCE

Mr. Pollock: In the absence of the Premier (Mr. Peterson) and the Minister of Health (Mr. Elston), I will ask this question to the Treasurer. A 14-year-old boy had two fingers severed in an accident in the Bancroft area. The doctor requested an air ambulance to take the boy to the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto to have those two fingers reattached. After approximately two hours of waiting for a response, the air ambulance official told the Bancroft officials the air ambulance would not be available. With an accident of this nature, time is of the essence. Why would it take two hours for the air ambulance people to give a response?

Mr. Speaker: I believe the member wanted to direct that to the government House leader, did he not?

Hon. Mr. Nixon: One of the ambulances was grounded because of weather, the other was in service; and I am delighted to know that the parents bundled the young man into their car, drove him to Sick Children's Hospital and the fingers were reattached successfully.

TABLING OF INFORMATION

Mr. Martel: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: Rules 29(

a) and 88(d), one for oral questions and one for written questions, are pretty specific. In the case of written questions, ministers are supposed to give an interim response within 14 days and then indicate.

I would draw your attention to a question on February 3 and two questions earlier, three of them; and also to an oral question on May 6, 1987, when the minister said he would respond the next day. I am still waiting for the Minister of Labour (Mr. Wrye) to respond the next day. Yesterday, he said he would have responses. Last week, on May 22, the minister said he would have responses to the questions I raised regarding Falconbridge. Mr. Speaker, I can take you right back to February 1986. I am still waiting for the minister. Maybe you can help obtain these answers for me.

Mr. Speaker: If he would give me an opportunity, I would be glad to help the member. I appreciate his comments and request for assistance on two different matters. On the one matter pertaining to the written questions, I am certain that the government House leader has taken careful attention. As I said a day or two ago, it is not the responsibility of the Speaker to make a minister respond to a question.

PETITIONS

TRUCKING ROUTE

Mr. McLean: I have a petition as follows:

"To the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor and the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"We, the undersigned, beg leave to petition the parliament of Ontario as follows:

"That the Honourable Ed Fulton, Minister of Transportation and Communications, and the elected officers of the government of Ontario implement a study in Mara township in the county of Simcoe to devise an alternate route to Simcoe county road 47 which presently is being used as a main artery for transports hauling limestone from the quarry. This current route conveys the transports through the very centre of the village of Brechin and past an elementary school, thus producing great potential safety hazards and disruptions which are totally unnecessary when an alternative route is possible."

This petition is signed by 137 members of the village of Brechin.

PUBLIC ACCOUNTING

Ms. Gigantes: I have a petition signed by 37 residents of the Ottawa-Carleton and eastern Ontario area in support of changes to the Public Accountancy Act to permit public accounting licences for certified general accountants with three years' public accounting experience in Ontario.

INTRODUCTION OF BILL

LABOUR RELATIONS AMENDMENT ACT

Mr. Barlow moved first reading of Bill 76,

An Act to amend the Labour Relations Act.

Motion agreed to.

Mr. Speaker: Does the member have a brief explanation?

Mr. Barlow: Yes, I do have a brief explanation. This bill will require a secret ballot vote for certification of a trade union in all cases where the board is satisfied that at least 45 per cent of the employees in the bargaining unit are members of the trade union. It also provides that a strike vote or a vote to ratify a proposed collective agreement is also taken by secret ballot.

It is a bill identical to the one I introduced about a year ago. Since that time, I have received much encouragement to reintroduce it from both employers and employees.

Mr. Speaker: l thank the honourable member for the explanation. We do not need a debate right now.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

TEACHERS' SUPERANNUATION AMENDMENT ACT

Hon. Mr. Conway moved second reading of Bill 55,

An Act to amend the Teachers' Superannuation Act.

Mr. Speaker: Does the minister have any opening comments?

Hon. Mr. Conway: I want to just make some very brief comments on second reading and say, at the outset, that I very much appreciate the support of my friends the member for St. George (Ms. Fish) and the member for Hamilton West (Mr. Allen) in bringing this matter forward.

Bill 55 is an important matter because it amends the Teachers' Superannuation Act in one particular area, and that is to allow teachers with 35 years of experience, but who have not reached the age of 65, to retire without a penalty. The particular duration of this window is, as indicated in the bill, from May 31, 1987, through September 1, 1990.

Ms. Fish: We are pleased to concur in this bill, although we regret the government's decision not to similarly bring forward legislation that would provide for the best five years' averaging to assist those who have retired and will retire in the near future.

Mr. Allen: I rise to indicate that our party supports this bill. Every piece of pension legislation designed in this fashion finds somebody one or two hours or one or two days on the other side of the window or the date one establishes. One is obviously sensitive to that fact, but the overriding concern of this bill not only meets with our support but also has the support of the Ontario Teachers' Federation, with whom negotiations were carried out over a period of time.

Some persons have asked about the three-year window. This is an attempt to deal in pretty much the same fashion as we did after the Bill 30 debate with those teachers for whom a window of three years was highly effective when they were 55 years of age with at least 10 years of experience.

The particular group in this question is teachers who came into the profession prior to the escalation of the academic requirements for the teaching profession. Many of them got into the profession in their 18th, 19th, or even 20th year and reached the age of 53, 54 or 55 and the 35-year limit to the benefits they can obtain from the pension plan and really are deserving of retirement.

Without wanting to give undue sanction to this particular reference, I can only reflect that Martin Luther suggested that any teacher who prevailed for 10 years in the profession was much to be admired. It is a demanding profession and I certainly wish all those who retire under this window all the best in their retirement years.

Mr. Harris: I want to join my colleague the member for St. George, the future member for St. George-St. David, in commenting briefly to say that we also are a little disappointed with the response of the Treasurer (Mr. Nixon) and the minister to the five-year averaging we have heard so much about in the last little while.

Hon. Mr. Nixon: I thought it was your policy to exclude them.

Mr. Harris: I have never been Minister of Education or Treasurer, so the member should not accuse me --

An hon. member: Do we need a longer conversation on this? Is the Treasurer inviting a fuller exploration of this issue?

Mr. Speaker: The member for St. George is not in her seat. Interjections are out of order.

Mr. Harris: I join my colleague in expressing some concerns with that.

Also, I really would like to indicate, while the House leader and the minister are here, how apparently little grasp and ability they have to make this Legislature work on any problems that appear to be occurring.

I think it is fair and safe to say that this bill is an example of how ineffectual this government is. This is an important piece of legislation. It affects teachers who, in order to take advantage of this legislation, must make major career decisions and submit their resignations in writing before the end of May. It has now been introduced and rushed forward. We are told it has to have second reading today. "Please, everybody, could you hold your debate to 18 seconds?" It has to have third reading today, because the Lieutenant Governor cannot be here tomorrow. It is a ridiculous way to do business in this House.

This is not the only example. We see example after example of this government coming in with things at the last minute, presumably saying to interest groups and what not: "We wanted it. We wanted to break the rules of the House and whip it all through in one day without debate, but the opposition wanted to know a little about the bill. They wanted to talk about it a little. They wanted to have a little input. After all, the opposition are the majority in the Legislature, but why should we worry about them."

This is another of those bills. We are supporting it and of course we are going to do everything we can to help bail the minister out of a problem he got himself into. Maybe he was too worried about a new office in his riding to be concerned about the teachers of the province or maybe he was concerned about something else, so that this piece of legislation sat on the back burner and then had to be brought forward and whipped through. Even then, I understand we are kind of lucky that we can sneak it in while the Lieutenant Governor is here today. Otherwise, this may not have been passed for teachers to make decisions.

The date today is May 27. Even now, the minister has given teachers who will be eligible for this program -- presumably they will find out about it; if the federation mails it out today or tomorrow maybe they will find out about it before the end of May when they have to submit their letters. If they are here in the Legislature today -- they probably are not here because it is in Orders and Notices for tomorrow.

Mr. Andrewes: They are here.

Mr. Harris: Are they?

Mr. Andrewes: Rest assured. We are lucky.

Mr. Harris: It is in Orders and Notices for tomorrow. Of course, as we now find out, tomorrow is too late because the Lieutenant Governor cannot be here tomorrow. I think it bears saying that this is not the way a minister, a House leader or a government should be bringing forward --

Ms. Caplan: You have known about it for months.

Mr. Andrewes: Who has? He has known about it for months? Been sitting on it, has he?

Mr. Harris: Oh, he has been sitting on it for months? Now maybe we are getting the reason. I was about to sit down.

Mr. Andrewes: The member for Oriole says he has known about it for months.

Mr. Harris: I could not understand how ineffectual the government was on this piece of legislation and on others, but now the member for Oriole has set the record straight. They wanted to hold teachers up to ransom, I guess. They wanted to keep them waiting on pins and needles. Maybe they would bring it in and maybe they would not. Maybe that is the reason.

I speak a little facetiously because I do not think that is the reason. I think it is total incompetence on the part of the government. We will do our

part in trying to straighten it out and get second and third reading and royal assent today, but with a considerable amount of regret at the way the government has treated the teachers of the province and at the way it treats this Legislature.

Mr. Sterling: I would not normally participate in a debate on a bill such as this because it is rather succinct and to the point. I understand the House leaders have made some agreement in terms of trying to get speedy passage of the bill. When the House leaders meet and make a deal with regard to getting a bill through the House very quickly, that requires co-operation on the part of everybody in this Legislature. I do not want to delay this unduly, but I would like to cite this minister in terms of the co-operation he has given to this House and to the members of this Legislature in the past, and in the recent past with regard to education matters, particularly in the Ottawa-Carleton area.

Mr. Speaker: What

section are you referring to?

Mr. Sterling: First, the minister in dealing with education matters in eastern Ontario, when asked questions by myself, chose to cast aspersions upon this member without answering the particular questions. I was happy to receive recently a letter from the president of the Catholic parents association to the Premier (Mr. Peterson) that chastised the minister for making these particular aspersions rather than answering the question.

Mr. Speaker: I am sorry to interrupt the member. I wonder whether the member can help me in understanding how these comments tie in with the Teachers' Superannuation Amendment Act?

Mr. Sterling: It is my understanding that when we deal with a matter in this Legislature, the Teachers' Superannuation Act, we are dealing with a number of matters dealing with our education system and that part of the legislative process --

Mr. Speaker: Has the honourable member looked at the legislation?

Mr. Sterling: I have the bill in front of me; thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Hon. Mr. Nixon: It does not deal with a number of matters.

Mr. Sterling: With regard to the Teachers' Superannuation Act, Mr. Speaker, I am sure that as a member of the Legislature you have received many letters from various constituents who are retired teachers and who have been seeking redress for very low pensions that they have been receiving from this government.

I was happy to see that under the pressure of the teachers' superannuation organization and of many of the members on this side of the floor, especially the member for Scarborough Centre (Mr. Davis), the Treasurer did move one small bit in readdressing that situation and giving some of our more elderly retired teachers a boost in their pensions. I welcome that. I hope he will address it again in the very near future. However, he could also have addressed another inequity, as put forward by the member for Scarborough Centre, and that is calculating their pension on the basis of the best five years.

Hon. Mr. Nixon: If that is an inequity, it was established by the Tory government.

Mr. Sterling: Mr. Speaker, perhaps you could restrain the Treasurer. I am having difficulty addressing myself to this bill. I know you want me to keep relevant and therefore I am trying to keep relevant, but he keeps interrupting me.

I was saying that if the Treasurer had seen fit to give the Minister of Education (Mr. Conway) adequate funding in the budget -- not only for this but also for other matters like the funding of new capital construction in eastern Ontario where we got only 13 per cent to 15 per cent of our request,

whereas around the Toronto area he managed to give somewhere around 47 per cent to 98 per cent of the requests -- we would see fit to pass this bill in a much more congenial manner.

I want to say in concluding my remarks that this legislation is in tune with what I believe my party stands for in terms of trying to get young teachers into the teaching profession and giving those who have served for 35 years the opportunity to retire and retain their sanity, as well as providing for our younger people the opportunity to get into the teaching profession.

Last, I want to suggest to the minister, if he brings legislation forward in the future, that he mention to the Minister of Colleges and Universities (Mr. Sorbara) that when he goes to eastern Ontario and announces the capital funding for large institutions like Algonquin College, for a tourism and hospitality school which he did yesterday or the day before, that he have the courtesy to invite the local MPPs to such announcements. I only hope that when they are going to announce the additions or the capital funding for the University of Ottawa, the Premier (Mr. Peterson) will take the opportunity to do that --

Mr. Speaker: The member may be straying just a little right now.

Mr. Sterling: He will do that at the time he is receiving a doctorate from that university. I wonder if Mr. Roy will be at that particular event.

In tune with our avowed co-operation, I will conclude my remarks and indicate my support for this piece of legislation.

Motion agreed to.

Bill ordered for third reading.

TEACHERS' SUPERANNUATION AMENDMENT ACT

Hon. Mr. Conway moved third reading of Bill 55,

An Act to Amend the Teachers' Superannuation Act.

Mr. McClellan: Very briefly, it is necessary to point out that the House is giving unanimous consent to waive the provision of the standing orders that prevents bills from passing more than one stage in one afternoon because of the importance of this bill, and as my colleague the member for Nipissing (Mr. Harris) said, because of the fact that delays in bringing in the bill meant a major inconvenience to a number of teachers who are faced with an end-of-May deadline to qualify for the retirement provisions of the bill.

Because of our longstanding traditions of being co-operative, we are pleased to accommodate the government and help to bail it out of the embarrassment it is in here this afternoon.

Mr. Harris: The member for St. George had a previous engagement and actually did not know the bills were coming forward today. She was able to stay for second reading. I know she would want to be here for third reading but is unable to be here. I am explaining in that way her absence as our critic.

Motion agreed to.

Hon. Mr. Nixon: Mr. Speaker, His Honour is waiting to give Royal Assent and has expressed a desire to do so in the chamber. If the members would attend, we will ask him to come in.

The Honourable the Lieutenant Governor of Ontario entered the chamber of the Legislative Assembly and took his seat upon the throne.

ROYAL ASSENT

Hon. Mr. Alexander: Pray be seated.

Mr. Speaker: May it please Your Honour, the Legislative Assembly of the province has, at its present sittings thereof, passed certain bills to which, in the name of and on behalf of the said Legislative Assembly, I respectfully request Your Honour's assent.

Assistant Clerk: The following are the titles of the bills to which Your Honour's assent is prayed:

Bill 55,

An Act to amend the Teachers' Superannuation Act, 1983;

Bill 176,

An Act to amend the Nursing Homes Act;

Bill 177,

An Act to amend the Health Facilities Special Orders Act, 1983.

Clerk of the House: In Her Majesty's name, the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor doth assent to these bills.

The Honourable the Lieutenant Governor was pleased to retire from the chamber.

INTERIM SUPPLY (CONTINUED)

Resuming the adjourned debate on the motion for interim supply for the period commencing June 1, 1987, and ending June 30, 1987.

Mr. Harris: We are pleased to support this resolution.

Hon. Mr. Nixon: I appreciate the co-operation of all members, which is better some times than others. On this occasion, the House has authorized the expenditure of between $7 billion and $9 billion -- I can tell the members exactly if I burrow into my desk -- most of which has already been spent.

It may be that we should amend the provisions of interim supply and make it read, let us say, November 1 or something like that, but I am not going to press my luck at this time. However, notice of interim supply that will be necessary by the end of June will be in Orders and Notices in the near future. I am very glad that this one is about to carry.

Motion agreed to.

BUDGET DEBATE (CONTINUED)

Resuming the adjourned debate on the motion that this House approves in general the budgetary policy of the government.

Hon. Mr. Nixon: I hear this is an especially good act.

Mr. Davis: The Treasurer might enjoy it.

Many years ago, a young man stood before a crowd of men, women and children and in a dynamic and outstanding address gave those individuals hope, a cause, a sense of purpose with the famous words, "I have a dream." We know that dream. What we found is a man of vision, a person with foresight, an individual possessing qualities of courage and conviction, a man who believed in a purpose and was prepared to travel the unknown paths of tomorrow because he had a dream and he had a vision.

l recall the former Prime Minister, Lester B. Pearson, who had a vision of giving Canada a sense of identity, and he did it with the debates and the final crowning of our own flag. He risked to make it a reality. I reflect upon the honourable Pierre Elliott Trudeau, who also had a dream, a cause, to bring home to Canada its own Constitution.

Two years ago, this government moved into a position of power through new initiatives in Ontario politics. From its birth, there was a sense of newness. The Premier (Mr. Peterson) captured the moment of time by indicating that his leadership and his government policies would be future-oriented, a government for the 1980s, a government for tomorrow.

This budget demonstrates that this Liberal government has failed miserably to provide Ontarians with a vision for tomorrow. It is a bland, static budget and it reveals very few initiatives to deal with the pressing problems of youth unemployment, the housing crisis we face in our ridings, our educational problems.

Hon. Mr. Nixon: Can you not be more Christian?

Mr. Davis: I am trying.

The Premier and his colleagues have refused to follow in the footsteps of previous federal leaders, who were willing to take the risks, who were prepared to challenge people to think of tomorrow through future-oriented programs and policies. This government --

Hon. Mr. Nixon: Yes, but our deficit is over $3 billion.

Mr. Davis: We are going to get to that. We are going to talk about the Treasurer's deficit.

This government has no vision for tomorrow.

Nowhere do we see in this budget a glimpse of strategies to be developed which would enable Ontarians to come to terms with a technological and service and information society, which is now on the horizon and dawning upon us and moving very quickly; no dreams, no visions, no innovations for community health programs; no stimulus and no challenge to our seniors to exercise their talents and their gifts to become more involved in this new age; no imaginative programs to stimulate small businesses, the heart of Ontario's economy; nothing to challenge the economic markets of tomorrow.

The budget is void of vision for the development of research opportunities. There are no bold initiatives in education to challenge our young people and to prepare them for tomorrow.

This document will not prepare Ontarians for the year 2001.

Alas, the problems we face as a province today -- unemployment; 150,000 young people in this province without jobs; the chronic disrepair of many of our educational institutions; inadequate educational funding on all levels; the continuing high costs of health care; the desperate lack of day care facilities for young parents; society's need to address new illnesses, such as acquired immune deficiency syndrome and Alzheimer's disease; the lack of innovation in transportation -- these concerns of today, the concerns of the people in Scarborough Centre will, because of this bland, do-nothing budget, remain the concerns of the community in the province's tomorrow.

Where is the boldness?

Mr. Ferraro: Did you say baldness?

Mr. Davis: No, I did not. I said boldness. Where are the visions and the dreams of this bankrupt government? One certainly would believe that, after 42 years, my honoured colleagues sitting on this side of the House and seeing those same problems day after day, month after month, year after year, would at least have had some kinds of strategies, policies and innovative ideas to offer the people of Ontario. One can only concur with my socialistic colleagues to my left that, without the accord, without those innovations and those directions, this government would be floundering on a sea of change, rudderless.

Let us examine the record of this government. Since coming to power in 1985, this government has increased spending by $8 billion. Since assuming the mantle of government, the Liberals have increased personal income tax by four per cent, have placed a surcharge on all income over $50,000, have increased the alcohol tax levy, have increased the tobacco tax levy, have increased the corporate taxes, have increased the tax on gasoline to the tune of one half a million dollars a day that flows into the Treasurer's pockets and have increased the land transfer tax. In fact, this government has taken from the pockets of the average Ontarian more than $900 million over last year.

The record falls far short of demonstrating fiscal responsibility. Despite our economic buoyancy, our record level of revenue growth, the public debt is still at 17.7 per cent of the gross provincial product. The cost of servicing this debt is $3.8 billion, more money than the Treasurer (Mr. Nixon) expends, totally, for financing all the programs of Community and Social Services in this province. Little wonder this government has refused to pass through the $150 to the 13,000 disabled in this province. I am led to believe that by this amount of $4,300 for every man, woman and child, we are mortgaging our children's future.

The budget shows this government has increased spending by some 30 per cent since taking office. In the three budgets brought down by this Treasurer, we find an average increase in government spending of approximately 10 per cent, while inflation is running at just about four per cent. The civil service has grown by 4,600 people in the last year, at a cost of over $200 million.

This budget contains no allocation for pay equity in the public service, conservatively estimated by the government's own officials at around $88 million. There are no allocations for the new fee structures of doctors, expected to be lucrative in the face of an upcoming election.

Mr. Wildman: No, the doctors will give up.

Mr. Davis: My colleagues to my left should watch. They will see the Treasurer continue to flow money out faster than he makes it. There is no indication of the new costs of the dental care program recently announced. Therefore, what we see is that the government's spending is growing faster than the economy and this budget faster than the provincial revenues the Treasurer is collecting. We are witnessing the resurrection of the Trudeau years: free-wheeling spending and high deficits by this government.

Mr. Wildman: I thought your leader wanted that. Your leader was quoting Trudeau today.

Mr. Davis: There is nothing wrong with quoting a great statesman once in a while. You do not have to agree with the individual's ideology or policies all the time. Why, heavenly day, there are even times we agree with some of the innovations and the initiatives and policies of the New Democratic Party, let alone the Liberals.

Our Treasurer has created what I want to call "Nixon economics," which I believe every family in Scarborough Centre would love to practice in its daily budgeting. Our Treasurer indicates that his government will have revenues of some $33 billion, but we will expend some $34 billion. This Liberal government is going to spend $1 billion more than it is going to take in. If only we could run our household on this type of budgeting policy that the Treasurer has initiated in Ontario and spend more than we have. Does this demonstrate fiscal responsibility? I think not. These are the actions of a government that has lost control. It is irresponsible fiscal policy.

Mr. Ferraro: We didn't lose 15 members.

Mr. Davis: Let us look at that for a moment, 15 members. I believe that in the last election the papers were decrying the flow of Liberal elected members who were flying off to Ottawa. I did not hear any concern, or the Liberals saying how important it was that they were losing those members. All of a sudden, because some members on the Progressive Conservative side have decided, for their own reasons, to retire, people would like to paint the picture that we are falling apart. We are not. We are not falling apart. We have excellent candidates coming aboard.

Mr. Pollock: We are going to take Lambton this time.

Mr. Davis: That is right. Lambton is one we have earmarked. The member for Lambton (Mr. D. W. Smith) ought to be careful because I think that is one we are going to take; and the member for Chatham-Kent (Mr. Bossy) needs to be careful because that is another one I think is ripe for the harvesting.

Mr. Ferraro: Cindy Nicholas feels the same way.

Mr. Davis: I will continue to place before the people of Scarborough Centre my record as a political activist, as a person who has been involved in my community for 14 years, and I will let the people of Scarborough Centre make the decision who should represent them in this House; and they will.

Mr. Wildman: Are they all forgiving people?

Mr. Davis: Oh, they are.

As I was attempting to say, this is an irresponsible fiscal policy followed by this government. It shows complete disregard for reality or respect for the people of Ontario. This budget shows that this government's course of action is to spend, spend, spend. It is ironic that the Treasurer at one point stood up and said he would not buy votes, buy votes, buy votes; but that is exactly what this budget is intended to do. "Let the people of tomorrow's generation pay for our good times." That is what the Treasurer is saying.

Interjection.

Mr. Davis: Look who has arrived: my friend the member for Cochrane North (Mr. Fontaine). The flying ex-cabinet minister has arrived, my heavenly day.

It is a wonder he can go to Cochrane North and talk about the cost of gasoline when his Premier had promised he would rebate that and this government, under this Treasurer, went ahead and increased the cost of gasoline to the north to the tune of a half a million dollars a day flowing into the coffers of the Treasury. So much for the concern and the compassion that this government has for the people of northern Ontario.

Hon. Mr. Nixon: United Church preachers don't go more than 15 minutes, you know. They would lose their jobs.

Mr. Davis: l would like to review the deficit of this province for a moment. Our Treasurer boldly stated to the press and to the people of Ontario that this budget would reduce the deficit below $1 billion with a reduction of some $350 million, and there was a chorus of applause from the other side. But wait. Let us examine that $350 million. What we see is that it will only occur if the Treasurer can reduce some of the ministries' budgets by the $350 million. Otherwise, the deficit remains the same at $1.3 billion or perhaps escalates.

What areas of programs will the Treasurer cut? Will he cut the agricultural programs of the Minister of Agriculture and Food (Mr. Riddell) to find the $350 million? Perhaps he will cut back on the hospital extension and capital that is still owing from last year's budget. Perhaps he will look at education. He can always find money in education. He has been very scrimpy in affording the kinds of finances needed there. Maybe he will cut that; or the environment.

How about the disabled? That is an easy place to find money. They have difficulty articulating their concerns and their needs to this government. In fact, they came down to talk to the Premier and some of his cabinet colleagues who would not even meet with them.

Mr. D. W. Smith: What about all the grants to Scarborough Centre?

Mr. Davis: I see the member for Lambton would like to ask a question about the grants for Scarborough Centre.

I would point out that in the past the government of Ontario has looked to Scarborough Centre and helped it deal with its seniors with a number of senior homes. Certainly in the future, the government would never want to be accused of looking after only those areas in this province that are painted a certain colour.

Interjection.

Mr. Davis: Red? Of course not. The member would certainly want to be known as the member for Lambton who was concerned with ensuring that there was funding for all the people of Ontario. We may just get to look at where the grants have been going lately. According to the figures of the Treasurer, the total provincial debt is some $37 billion, up $4 billion in the two years since this group has been in power; and this government claims to be exercising fiscal responsibility.

The Treasurer rose proudly last week and said, "No increases in taxes," and the people in Ontario went wild. "No increases." This budget does absolutely nothing to alleviate the heavy tax burden that this Treasurer has placed on the backs of the average person in Ontario in the last two years. Certainly there were no cuts in the taxes. He did not have to have any increases in taxes because he had already taxed people to death, so before the election he was going to smooth them over. "I am not going to increase the tax base." He had already done it to a tune of $900 million.

By the way, we will continue to pay those taxes this year.

Why were there no tax cuts? It seems to me that with the kind of buoyant economy and the tremendous kind of income the Treasurer has inherited, at the very least he could have cut personal income tax by 10 per cent. The Treasurer and this government have mortgaged the future of our children and our grandchildren and they will strangle the generations of tomorrow with the increasing debt of this province.

I would like to turn our attention for a few moments to the government's top-priority commitment -- education. In the throne speech, we heard and found that education is at the core of this government's policy, initiatives and programs. The Premier talks about excellence in education. In the throne speech, he talks about a curriculum and an experience that are relevant and meaningful to students. The Minister of Education (Mr. Conway) talks about providing young people with skills needed for lifetime learning. The government promises a day care facility in each new school that will be built.

The Premier has said, "An investment in our schools is an investment in the future of our communities."

Let us examine the Liberal record in education. When the Liberals came to power, the provincial share of the educational budget -- and I know the honourable minister will agree -- was 48.6 per cent. Now, after three budgets -- not one, not two, but three budgets -- the provincial share is 44 per cent, a drop of four per cent. I call it the "minus four per cent solution" of the Liberals to deal with education.

What this government has done is increase the property owners' contributions to education in this province. I would point out to the Treasurer that even during the recession the previous Progressive Conservative government's contributions to educational funding never dropped below 50 per cent until 1982. Let members check their records. What we found was it took the previous government a time frame of six years to lower that four per cent. This government has accomplished a four per cent reduction in the provincial share of education in this province in less than two years.

The government wishes to confuse the reality of educational funding by constantly referring to capital costs and capital grants and how much more it has done there. What is interesting to note is that the comparison the Treasurer uses is to 1984-85 allocations. But when we compare this budget to last year's budget, we see an increase to capital grants of only $13 million, which is the cost of one high school.

This flies in the face of realities, especially when we realize there are nine growth areas: the Metropolitan Separate School Board, the Scarborough Board of Education, the North York Board of Education, the Halton Board of Education, the Halton Roman Catholic Separate School Board, the Durham Board of Education, the Durham Region Roman Catholic Separate School Board, the Peel Board of Education and the Dufferin-Peel Roman Catholic Separate School Board.

These boards' capital needs are projected at between $360 million and $720 million annually. What we find in the school board requests in 1985-86 is a request for $398 million. This Liberal government, which likes to portray itself as being generous in education, provided $127 million, a shortfall of $271 million.

Last year there was a request for $504 million. The government gave $147 million, a shortfall of $357 million. This year, the boards of education in this province asked for $1 billion and the government gave them $147 million, a shortfall of some $800 million.

It is interesting. If the Liberals had maintained the provincial share of funding that they inherited when they walked across the floor to govern a year ago, they would have found an additional $250 million in their budget for capital costs. The government has provided an additional $226 million in capital which will flow through in 1988-89, but that is not enough. It is too little, too late. There are still 150,000 students in this province who receive, if not all, a large majority of their education in portables.

I can recall that the present Minister of Education, in one of his famous speeches asking for the resignation of the previous minister, indicated that one of the rationales for that was that the government had failed to address the needs of children in portables. Since this minister has taken office we have seen the number of portables increase.

The money allocated, the $226 million, would build -- are members ready for this? -- 15 high schools across this province, if all the money went to building high schools. However, if the government decided to put all the money into elementary schools, it would build approximately 40 elementary schools.

What we do know is that the York boards, York Region Board of Education and the York Region Roman Catholic Separate School Board, require two high schools per year, 10 elementary schools and capital funding of $40 million to $80 million a year. This budget does not seriously address the educational needs of this province with respect to capital funding.

The Minister of Education, the Premier and the Treasurer talk about lifelong education experience -- a great goal, an excellent philosophical statement. But what is reality? This government that philosophizes on lifelong education has refused to recognize as a legitimate use of space adult day classes in this province.

In fact, I had the honour and the privilege of opening the new school in Scarborough for adult education when it began. The enrolment next year will be over 1,100 students. What indeed I saw from an innovative board is the educational school of tomorrow, the retraining and the re-educating of the adults of our province, with no thanks to this Treasurer or this minister.

I am glad to see the minister respond to an initiative that I have championed for several years, to provide day care settings in the schools of the province, especially in those schools that have declining enrolments. The minister went one step further. He announced in this House that every new school that will be built will have space for day care facilities. For that, I applaud him. That is an initiative that needs to be done in this province.

But what is the record? School boards have been informed that the existing day care programs that are now operating will not be recognized as legitimate uses of space. For the ministry's purpose, this space will be classified as empty. How can they claim on one hand that they are going to build and provide day care in new schools, and on the other close day care now operating in the older schools?

I would like the Minister of Education to tell the people of the Victoria county school area that they will have day care facilities built in their two new schools. I have yet to be informed that they are going to have day care facilities, but it is a new school. Or are the parents in Victoria county to be treated as equally, with the same kind of opportunity, as the people in the city of Toronto or Scarborough? Is that going to be -- the minister's favourite phase -- "a local option"?

Where in this budget do we find the additional funds for the purchase of computers? If we accept the Premier's statements that we must ensure students are trained in the new literacy -- as he informed the Scarborough Mirror on Monday, where he is quoted -- where is the funding for word processors for young students interested in business and office careers? Where is the funding from the Treasurer for the purchase of modern equipment like computerized lathes and machine shops to ensure our young people receive proper training with skills for the job market?

I assure the Treasurer that he has informed us in the capital accounts. He says, "Look to the capital account." What do we find in that area? A paltry $46 million. Let us look at the $46 million. I ask the educators, parents and students to examine the record of the Liberal government.

The government has indicated that science is of primary importance in its educational policy. The boards of education across this province have requested $72 million to upgrade their science rooms. The government's total commitment for upgrading facilities and equipment in this province this year will be $46 million. No money is budgeted in the Treasurer's report for new science books, which I have been told will cost an estimated $121 million.

If my understanding is correct, in Victoria county, where two new schools are to be built, they will not have a modern science classroom. That just reinforces the philosophy that the Treasurer stated during the debates on educational funding several months ago that students outside of Metro cannot expect the same quality of education which he called, "these many innovative programs that are frivolous."

I ask the Treasurer and the Minister of Education, should not the students of Victoria county have access to a music program? Should they not have access to the family studies room, machine shops, wood shops and metal shops that the children of Scarborough have? Or are they second-class citizens?

I want to talk about school drop-outs. I mean, I really want to talk about school drop-outs. This minister took two years to address an issue and so he assigned a one-man task force to go across the province and investigate school drop-outs. If the minister had wanted to find out about school drop-outs, he could have joined the Progressive Conservative task force that went across this province last fall and summer and he would have had enough data to deal with the school drop-out issue. There is no educator on that task force. There is no student. There is no parent.

It is a one-man task force and the objective of this government is to eliminate the school drop-out rate by one third over five years.

It is noted that in an ordinary class of 100 students beginning grade 9, 40 of those students will not complete their secondary school education. The sad thing is the majority of those young people are capable of post-secondary education. This government says, "We are going to reduce it by one third over five years." What is one third of 40? Approximately 13 students are somehow going to be funnelled back into the system at the end of five years. That is two students a year -- shame -- two of the 40 students a year in any given group of 100. Two students out of the 40 will find the opportunity to continue their education. I suggest the goal should be zero.

In 1985, the Premier campaigned across this province on a provincial share of 60 per cent funding. Did this budget move significantly in that direction? No. Last month, the Minister of Education, in recognition of the problem between the per pupil grant for elementary and for secondary, froze the difference at $911 and then spoke volumes about how much he recognized that concern and that problem. Did this budget make a significant move to reduce that shortfall? No. Did we see any bold initiatives on the part of the Liberal government in educational financing? No.

Did we perceive this government moving to eliminate the educational tax burden on the property owner, understanding that it is sitting on the Macdonald report? No.

The rhetoric that we are exposed to by this government is deafening. It continually states that there must be more resources for elementary students in response to the blueprint for justice and that it must address the drop-out rate. Yet, faced with a golden opportunity to put words into actions, faced with a prospect of really doing something in elementary and secondary education for students and teachers of this province, what do we see and what do we hear? Nothing.

The Premier talks of a first-class educational system and he points out that Ontario has to be in the forefront in technology. He especially takes great pride in the technological fund, $100 million a year for the development of a technological program; $1 billion in 10 years. I ask my colleague, the member for Essex South (Mr. Mancini), would it not be more practical to take that $100 million and buy computers, to ensure that the young people in elementary grades and secondary schools all have computers?

If we are really talking about providing a base foundation of technology for Ontario, we begin that in the classroom; and we begin it by providing computers and word processors and providing the type of equipment that young people need in their shops to prepare them for the work force.

This budget demonstrates that, contrary to the Liberal government policies, education is not a priority. They are words of puffery. They are illusionary. What we find are promises that are counterfeit. True, an investment in our schools is an investment in the future of our province, our community and our country. This government, through this budget, has abdicated its promises of investing in the education of young students and preparing them for tomorrow and the new age.

I am sadly disappointed. I would like to try and envision what happened to the Minister of Education as he walked into the dark hallway to meet the Treasurer. Did he go down on bended knee and ask and beg for more money; or was he cuffed about the ears and battered into the corner; told, "Go away, young man, go away"? Maybe he was told to go west. Who knows?

I sat here and I believed that this Minister of Education and this Treasurer were committed to education. I was looking forward to something that was revolutionary, dynamic. I was looking for something which said -- even in my wildest dreams I expected him to go from 44 per cent to 48 per cent; but no, he did not go that way. I expected him at least to have said, "I am going to begin to address and reduce the gap between the elementary student and the student in the secondary school." No. I find it appalling that this governmen