May 31, 2004 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 38

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we have member's statements by the Member

for Bonavista South and the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to again congratulate Michael Ryder, a native of Bonavista and a

rookie with the National Hockey League's Montreal Canadiens.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FITZGERALD: Mr. Speaker, this season, Michael led all rookies in

scoring and in assists. He also tied for the most goals scored by a rookie.

Last week, for his impressive first season in the NHL, Michael Ryder was

named The Sporting News Rookie of the Year.

Mr. Speaker, this award is of particular significance given that the winner

is determined through a poll of NHL players.

Some of the past winners include such greats as: Mike Bossy, Ray Bourque,

Steve Yzerman and Mario Lemieux. Many of these went on to win the NHL's Rookie

of the Year Award and all went on to have incredible NHL careers.

Mr. Speaker, it is an amazing honour to win this award and to be recognized

by NHL players in this way.

I ask all hon. members to join me in extending heartiest congratulations to

Michael Ryder on his NHL success and this tremendous post-season achievement.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate the Conservation Corps of Newfoundland and

Labrador for their receipt of the Community Group or Organization Award and the

Newfoundland and Labrador Environmental Awards.

The Conservation Corps is a not-for-profit organization dedicated to

providing youth with training and employment in environmental and cultural

heritage conservation.

Since 1992, the Conservation Corps has established a successful track record

in delivering environmental and cultural heritage conservation projects that

bring youth together with provincial, national, international government,

corporate, and community partners.

This organization runs a number of great environmental programs, including:

the Green Team Program, the Climate Change Action Program, the Environmental

Leadership Program, the Alumni and Volunteer Program, the Internship Program,

and other special projects.

I would like to ask all hon. members to join me in recognizing the continued

support of the environment and dedication to young people in Newfoundland and

Labrador made by the Conservation Corps of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by members?

The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to honour a distinguished politician, a World War II veteran, a

former senator, a person who received the Order of Canada and, above all, a

great gentleman, Senator Jack Marshall.

His awards include the Order of Canada, the Meritorious Service Award, the

Palm Leaf by the Royal Canadian Legion and a Humanitarian Award from Pope John

Paul II.

His greatest work was his tireless advocacy for World II veterans to get

served proper justice on these individuals. He chaired the Senate Sub-Committee

for Veterans' Benefits which yielded major improvements for veterans.

Due to this work, Senator Marshall was award the Order of Ontario. This award

recognizes the highest individual achievement of excellence in any field by the

Ontario government.

He served as the MP for the riding of Humber-St. Barbe before entering the

Senate.

My fondest memories, Mr. Speaker, of Senator Marshall were at his drug store

in Curling, as a young boy. He would let us clean his floors for a quarter or

half dollar, sometimes two or three of us at a time. This was to let us have a

bit of spending money for the day. This was, of course, after the building was

cleaned by professional cleaners, but this was his way of helping the youth.

I ask all members to join me in recognizing Senator Jack Marshall for this

prestigious award and, above all, for being a true gentleman all his life.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform my colleagues, and the people of the

Province, through the House of Assembly that government has reached an agreement

with the Labrador Metis Nation outlining the participation of the Labrador Metis

Nation in forest ecosystem management planning in Labrador. This two-year

agreement essentially came about through a period of negotiations. The former

government had entered into an MOU for a period of months which, upon assuming

office, this government extended that while negotiations were going on. This

two-year agreement formally acknowledges the LMN as a key stakeholder in the

management and future development of Labrador's forest resources. The

agreement will be retroactive to April 1, 2004, and continue until March 31,

Our government realizes that establishing an effective working relationship

with the Labrador Metis Nation will further the advancement of sustainable

forest management in Labrador. This agreement supports the development of the

forest industry in Labrador and, in doing so, brings welcome benefits to the

residents of Labrador, including the members of the Labrador Metis Nation and

the communities in which they live.

Government will provide $200,000 in each of the two years of the agreement to

assist the LMN achieve its forest management goals and objectives. This

financial support will be used by the LMN to hire the professional forestry

personnel needed to fulfill the LMN obligations under the forestry agreement

that we signed.

As part of the agreement, Mr. Speaker, government will conduct a feasibility

study into the value-added and secondary forest products industry in Labrador in

conjunction with local stakeholders. This important initiative will help

government and the LMN identify the market potential of Labrador-based forest

projects.

Mr. Speaker, I commend Todd Russell, president of the Labrador Metis Nation,

for his leadership in working with government to reach this historic agreement.

This government recognizes the Labrador Metis Nation as an important stakeholder

in the forest ecosystem management process in Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to also congratulate the Labrador Metis Nation on finally having a

negotiated contract with regard to forestry development in certain regions of

Labrador. Mr. Speaker, we were very proud of the fact that we were the first

government to sign an MOU on forestry with the Labrador Metis people and nearly

finalized, actually, the agreement the minister is announcing today before the

election. I am proud to say that it has finally been signed and, as I

negotiated by ourselves.

Mr. Speaker, the Labrador Metis people have made tremendous strides but

certainly they have had their challenges and they have certainly felt the wrath

of the government opposite when it came to the Powley decision eariler this

year. Mr. Speaker, they know that you cannot always trust a word sometimes of

the Premier, as it was in the case of the Powley decision, and it is important

to have signed agreements, agreements that will enshrine and entrench the rights

of the Metis people, whether it is on forestry or whether it is on other

agreements as time goes on.

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to working with Mr. Russell and his organization

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

MS JONES: - in moving forward on forestry initiatives in Labrador, in my

district, and -

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has not been granted.

MS JONES: - in other regions as well

Thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is an important step to be made by the government, despite their

reneging on the commitment made prior to the election regarding the Powley

decision to recognize the Metis Nation as having an important role to play in

the forest resources of Labrador, and the development of these forest resources,

and participating in a sustainable management agreement.

I think this is something that we should hope that the government would be

able to build on in the future and come to full recognition of the role of the

Labrador Metis in having a say in the future of resource development in the

appropriate parts of Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers.

The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I wish to advise Members of the House of Assembly and the people of the

Province that May 30 to June 5 is Environment Week. Environment Week is a time

to reflect on the importance of preserving, protecting and enhancing our

environment and natural heritage.

Mr. Speaker, we must all work together to do our part to help create a

healthier and cleaner environment for ourselves, our children and our

grandchildren. There are many Newfoundlanders and Labradorians all over the

Province who are showing their commitment to the environment through their

actions. I was pleased to acknowledge some of these individuals this morning

during this year's environmental awards ceremony, which is held each year

during Environment Week.

The Newfoundland and Labrador Environmental Awards Program, which is a joint

initiative of my department, the MMSB, and the Newfoundland and Labrador Women's

Institutes, honours our outstanding leaders in environmental and conservation

work. The environment awards are presented in six categories, and this year's

award winners are: Individual: Laura Jackson of St. John's, who is joining us

in the gallery today; Youth or Youth Group: Gaia Environmental Youth Group of

Bay Roberts, and they were joined by their member, the Member for Port au Grave,

at the ceremonies today; School or Educational Institution: Straits Elementary

of Flowers Cove; Municipality or Regional Waste Management Committee: NorPen

Waste Management Incorporated of St. Anthony. Dan Patey is in the gallery today,

from NorPen as well, and both the Straits Elementary School and Mr. Patey were

joined by their member, the Member for The Straits & White Bay North today

as well; Community Group or Organization: Conservation Corps of Newfoundland and

Labrador; and, Business: Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, government is pleased to be able to recognize the hard work and

accomplishments of these environmental leaders. We extend our sincere

congratulations and truly appreciate their amazing commitment to our

environment.

Mr. Speaker, I ask everyone to make an extra effort during Environment Week

to do something positive for our environment. All of our actions, big or small,

do make a difference. We have an obligation to ourselves and to future

generations to protect and conserve our environment. A healthy environment means

a healthy people, vibrant communities and a better Province for all of us.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I, too, would join with the minister in

congratulating all the people who received awards today, the groups and the

organizations, in this Environment Week.

It is encouraging to note that in the group of the awards there are three

young people, young organizations. We all know, in major issues in our society,

we only make progress when we have the great leadership or our young people

involved.

Last year I attended a conference on Students Against Drunk Driving, and when

you see the participation of the young people and the desire and enthusiasm of

the young people - we know everything is a success when our young people are

involved in such organizations.

Also, I would like to congratulate Laura Jackson, who I have known for many,

many years as a great activist in terms of all kinds of initiatives in our

Province. I salute her, as well as municipal groups and community groups. We

sort of expect that they would be participants in this kind of activity.

My congratulations to all the people involved. Keep up the good work.

Environment is not only for this week but for every week throughout the year.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to join the minister and the Opposition critic in recognizing

Environment Week and congratulating all of those who received environmental

awards today, and acknowledge the presence in the gallery of Laura Jackson of

the Protected Area Association for her dedication and long service, and

representatives of the Straits Elementary and Waste Management who are also here

today.

Mr. Speaker, obviously the protection of the environment is very important.

Also, we look forward to this government to show leadership in establishing

certain areas of this Province that need to be protected for all time. There was

a commitment made some ten years ago to set aside particular areas for

protection. A comprehensive plan has not yet been put in place. It wasn't put

in place by the previous government. I hope this government will move quickly to

ensure that we do have a comprehensive protected areas plan for the Province of

Newfoundland and Labrador. That is something that is long overdue in this

Province. Other provinces are way ahead of us in this regard.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MR. HARRIS: I look forward to the minister making an announcement soon to

do just that.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further Statements by Ministers? Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, over the past several weeks, including during the recent

political polling period, the Premier of our Province has been promoting his

so-called success in ensuring the future of 5 Wing Goose Bay. He toured Europe

on the premise that his trip would ensure that Goose Bay would have a viable

long-term future for defence training. Today, we learn that our own Department

of National Defence for Canada is no longer interested in keeping the base open

as a military operation, and it may become just another abandoned industrial

park.

My question for the Premier, Mr. Speaker, is: When did the Premier become

from the Department of National Defence for Canada, or was he just trying to

keep the information from Newfoundlanders and Labradorians?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, our government is a very open and transparent government, and

there was never any attempt whatsoever to keep any information from

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

When I explained the trip to Europe, I think people understand there was no

guarantee of success. What we are trying to do is basically try and correct the

problem that we inherited from the past government, and that was when 5 Wing

Goose was allowed to go on the slippery slope. We realize that problem, of

course, and the Member for Lake Melville attended with me, as well as the

president of the union.

What we are trying to do is to make it work. We are just trying. That is

basically what we are trying to do on behalf of the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador. We are going out and marketing the base. We are trying to find

alternatives. We are meeting with senior government officials. We are meeting

with senior officials of the RAF. I met this morning with the Ambassador to

Canada from Germany, and had a good meeting with him this morning to discuss the

same issue with him. What we are trying to do is ensure the long-term viability

of 5 Wing Goose for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and for the people

of the region. I am sure the Leader of the Opposition has no objection to that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am sure he will confirm then, as he just did, that the trip to

Europe was not expected to, and probably will not, deliver any results with

respect to military training in Goose Bay. I am glad the government is so open,

because the information that is in the media today only became public because

the media requested it under the Freedom of Information Act, not because it was

volunteered by the Premier and the government.

Mr. Speaker, again, as we indicated, the Premier has gone to Europe seeking

meetings with the allies. Yet it seems, as we pointed out in this Legislature

before, the problem is not in Europe. The problem is with our own Department of

National Defence in Ottawa, in the nation's capital.

The question, Mr. Speaker, for the Premier, knowing that the Department of

National Defence in Ottawa has studies done and is in the public media saying

they have no particular interest in the survival of 5 Wing Goose Bay as a

military training base. What has the Premier and the government done in Ottawa

Defence to try to secure the future of 5 Wing Goose Bay instead of traipsing

about Europe trying to pretend that there is some hope and some future?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it is no wonder that we have a problem when the former Premier

of the Province says there is no problem in Europe. When we took over the

government the Germans had indicated that they were leaving, the Dutch had

indicated that they were leaving, the Italians were about to leave at the end of

the MOU and the hon. gentleman opposite says there is no problem in Europe. That

is where the problem is. The allied forces are pulling out, and for financial

reasons because there are serious financial problems with these governments in

Europe. So what we did was we went right to source. We attended at the Berlin

air show. We were there with officials of DND. We met with senior officials and

the European governments. We met with the senior officials in the air force

because we are trying to repair the damage that was done by this government by

allowing this just to blow by. They just did not even know it was happening. The

hon. gentleman opposite says there is no problem in Europe. Where has he been

for the last three years? That is what I would like to know, Mr. Speaker.

Now, with regard to the federal government. The very first meeting that I had

with the Prime Minister, which was in December of last year, and I keep

repeating it and he obviously does not want to listen to this but one of the top

five items that I mentioned of importance to the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador was 5 Wing Goose Bay. On that same day, within an hour of that meeting,

I met with the new Minister of Defence, Minister Pratt, and I repeated the

problem to Minister Pratt. Subsequent to that, I attended with Minister Pratt in

Happy Valley-Goose Bay, when he announced that the federal government was going

to assist 5 Wing Goose Bay over the course of the next two years to try and

reduce the cost to the allies in Europe; who the hon. gentleman says there is no

problem with. Well, there is a very serious, financial problem with these

people. The federal government have intervened to the tune of $30 million, $40

million in order to subsidize -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the Premier now to complete his answer quickly.

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

So, as the result of our initiative and the initiatives of other good people,

like the Member for Lake Melville, also the federal Member of Parliament,

Lawrence O'Brien, plus the committee up there, plus the work of the union. A

lot of people are pulling together to try and make this happen. Again, I cannot

understand why you are so against progress. It is okay if you are doing it, but

it is not right if this government does it. It has happened because of your

inaction, and that is why!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier likes to rant but misses the point completely. The

fact of the matter is the fundamental problem that we have with respect to 5

Wing Goose Bay is in Ottawa, in our own nation's capital. How do we expect

allies to make a commitment to train in Goose Bay when our own Department of

National Defence is commissioning studies to say we do not want to do training

in Goose Bay anymore, let's make it into, maybe, an industrial park? It comes

out under Freedom of Information, information we assume the Premier already knew

if he had done his homework in Ottawa.

The question is this: Does the Premier now understand, finally, that it might

be time to get a real, rather than an imaginary, commitment from the federal

media reports today and -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the Leader of the Opposition now to complete his question.

MR. GRIMES: - the studies show that they have no plans in 5 Wing Goose

Bay. They had always committed to 2006. What commitment is he going to try to

get now in the midst of a federal election about the future of 5 Wing Goose Bay

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, what I understand is that if the problem is with Canada, and the

problem is with Ottawa, which is part of the problem, then you go to the leader

of the government. You go to the Prime Minister. I met with the Prime Minister.

I do not know if the hon. gentleman opposite is just not hearing what I am

saying, but when you have a problem with the government, you go to the head of

the government. I went to that particular person. I have also spoken to him on

several other occasions and I have had other meetings with him where I brought

it to his attention. If you are dealing with a specific department in Ottawa,

you go to the minister of that department. I have met with him. I have attended

with him on the site. I have had discussions with him.

The difference, though, between this government and that government is we

have a relationship with Ottawa. We can go and speak to the Prime Minister. We

can go and speak to the minister. We can go and speak to the Liberal Members of

Parliament, unlike the hon. gentleman opposite who, as I said before, burnt

every single bridge between Newfoundland and Labrador and Ottawa. He was at

loggerheads with Prime Minister Chrtien. He was putting words in the Prime

Minister's mouth.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the Premier now to complete his answer.

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

He was at war with the Member for Labrador. He has a personal history with

the new Minister of Natural Resources. He does not get along with anybody, Mr.

Speaker. The difference with us is that we are co-operating, we are

collaborating, we are working with Ottawa and we will get results for the people

of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador is looking forward to the results

rather than the rhetoric like we just heard.

Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is this, last week in this Legislature

the Premier admitted that his Minister of Transportation and Works had given

misinformation to the House about when he wrote the current Prime Minister, Mr.

Martin. The Premier indicated that he wrote Prime Minister Martin within the

last couple of days. This was stated on Thursday and he committed to table the

letter. Would he table the letter now so we can see whether or not there is a

commitment requested, in that letter, to the current Prime Minister for 5 Wing

Goose Bay? Yes or No?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have already given a commitment that we will table that letter in the House

today.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier of the Province would like the people to trust him,

as he just indicated, and we will get results. That is what we are all waiting

for. Well, people trusted him before the election and people had trusted him

before the Budget. In each case, Mr. Speaker, the results are ones they do not

want and that we hope we do not get this time.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

We are getting to the point where we are having very lengthy

preambles to

supplementary questions. Some of the exchanges are of some length, a minute to a

minute-and-a-half. I ask members if they would reduce their

preambles, get to

the questions so we can keep our exchanges down to fifty seconds or thereabouts.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The question for the Premier is this. Rather than talk about a wonderful

relationship and some results in the future, what we have are studies conducted

by the Department of National Defence showing that after 2006 they have no

plans, as the defence department, for 5 Wing Goose Bay.

When is the Premier going to stop worrying about having a wonderful, huggy,

kissy- face relationship and actually getting some concrete results? Would he

not agree that now is the time to get some commitments during the federal

election?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We have, in fact, gotten results. We have, through our negotiations, through

our conversations with the Prime Minister, we have in fact gotten $40 million

for 5 Wing Goose Bay. Those are significant numbers. That has been the result of

our exercise.

Again, I cannot understand why the hon. gentleman opposite would be against

us working in partnership with the federal government, with the municipal

government in Happy Valley-Goose Bay, with the local member, with the federal

member, with the union, as a strategic joint working committee to come up with a

new approach for Happy Valley-Goose Bay, because that is exactly what we are

doing.

Old-time measures, former measures, do not work for that base. We need to

have a whole new outlook on how to approach it. There is tactical transport that

is now important, unarmed vehicles are now important, supersonic flight is

important, chaff and flares are important. There are all kinds of alternative

maneuvers that need to be made available at that base; so what we did was, when

we met with the allies overseas, we said: Tell us what you want and we will see

if we can fulfill the bill.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the Premier now to complete his answer.

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In order to satisfy a customer, you have to find exactly what they want. We

have been discussing with them. As well, we have been working with officials of

DND at the very highest level, who attended with us at the air show in Berlin.

They are working with senior officials of the allies. Everybody is working

together.

I know you cannot understand that, and that was your problem when you had

this government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are for the Minister of Transportation, Works and

Aboriginal Affairs.

Can the minister confirm for me that the cost of operating the terminal and

onshore operations at Lewisporte alone to service the Labrador ferry will be

approximately $700,000 this year? Can he also tell me if that money will be

coming from the Labrador Transportation Initiative Fund?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I cannot confirm for the member what the cost of operating the Lewisporte

facility is. I will undertake to get that information for her and provide her

with it, but I cannot confirm it for her here in the House today.

As she is well aware, the cost of providing services, the Labrador Marine

Services, does come out of the Labrador Transportation Initiative Fund, so on

that one, I guess, whatever the cost is, I would to have to say yes, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On a supplementary, the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I will just say to the hon. minister that the

Budget Estimates will show that it will cost that amount of money to operate the

terminal alone.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister again today: Is he setting up his

constituency office for himself in the Lewisporte area in the terminal facility?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

That question was asked of the minister last week here in the House, and I

understand that the answer was provided. I am not aware that indeed is the case,

but I am sure, Mr. Speaker, when the minister returns from his deliberations in

Ottawa, that answer can be provided to the member again, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, when the previous government relocated the marine

services from Lewisporte to Cartwright there was an Economic Development Fund

given to the Lewisporte area of $150,000. Now, Mr. Speaker, it is less than a

year later and the government opposite has reversed the decision and now decided

to put the ferries back in Lewisporte and to take the full cost of that from the

Labrador Transportation Fund.

I want to ask the minister today if he will now request that the Economic

Development Fund given to Lewisporte area less than a year ago, that they be

asked to pay that money back, Mr. Speaker. I ask the minister as well: What

compensation does he intend to give to the people of Labrador for the loss of

service and the loss of economic development that is happening in their area,

Mr. Speaker, or do you just plan to let the Labrador communities and Labrador

people go hungry while the people in the minister's district drain all the

money out of the Labrador Fund?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As the member indicated last year when they were the government, they did

provide the Chamber of Commerce in Lewisporte with some economic development

money. To my knowledge, Mr. Speaker, that money - a portion of it at the very

least - has been spent.

Mr. Speaker, we all know that the Labrador Marine Services will not be based

permanently out of Lewisporte. There will come a day, in the not-too-distant

future, when Lewisporte will not be the terminal, the southern terminal, for

Labrador based freight and ferry services, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we made a decision on Labrador Marine Services that took into

account the needs and wants of all of the people in Labrador: the North Coast,

the West Coast, Western Labrador, Central Labrador and Southern Labrador, Mr.

Speaker. That is why we have a ferry service and a freight service configured

such as it is, so that it can meet the needs of all of those people.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the minister to complete his answer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Government Services concerning the

automobile insurance reform issue.

Minister, we have gone from a Blue Book promise of a cap to a deductible

scheme, and it seems clear from the draft legislation that this deductible will

be subject to a Cabinet decision regarding the amount. Minister, given the

about-face and the wishy-washy manner in which this Administration is dealing

with the insurance issue, how can the general public and the insurance consumer

trust this government to do anything, rather than you making a definitive

commitment in the legislation regarding the deductible?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, the legislation for the automobile insurance will

be tabled here tomorrow for debate. We are indeed bringing in reforms that are

going to benefit all of the people in this Province with savings on their

premiums. We will have ample time tomorrow to debate those issues.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Minister.

Notwithstanding the fact that this matter might be debated in the House, I do

not believe, Minister, that it is uncommon to ask questions that are of

importance to the general public. Perhaps if you have the answer that you are so

willing to give tomorrow in a debate, you might be prepared to share it with the

general public who have these questions today.

I ask you again: If you are now moved from a cap to a deductible scheme, why

don't you at least have the intestinal fortitude to say in this piece of

legislation what the deductible will be, rather than leaving it blank and for

the public of this Province to trust it to yourselves and your Cabinet

colleagues to decide that amount? That is a fairly straightforward, simple

question.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, the deductible will be in the legislation

tomorrow. If the hon. member would like to know, it will be a $2,500 deductible.

I would like to say to the hon. member that this file was on the go for eight

years and nothing was done. All the discussions held were completely shelved, on

the shelf, done absolutely nothing, only talked about it. I have taken action,

as minister. seven months in this office. I am now bringing in reforms tomorrow

for debate.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Well, I strongly suggest to you, Minister, that before

tomorrow you read your own legislation because there is nothing about $2,500 in

this bill.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Unless you are going to bring in an amendment tomorrow, when

you only brought in the bill itself on Thursday.

My final question, Minister, regarding this issue again -

MS WHALEN: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been raised. The hon. the minister has

been recognized. I ask the minister if she wishes to raise it now or wait until

after Question Period is over.

MS WHALEN: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, my third and final question for the minister is - Minister, your

party committed last summer, 2003, to 20 per cent or more savings on all types

of insurance. In your bill that we have today, that we see, we see all sorts of

numbers, none of which add up to meaningful savings to the consumer. For

example, we get 9 per cent on public liability, which everybody has to have,

whereas we see other provinces like New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Alberta - which

we have all been watching in the last six months - getting savings in the range

of 20 per cent to 30 per cent. Why are Newfoundlanders and Labradorians not

going to get the same type of breaks on their costs for insurance as these other

provinces have gotten with their legislation?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, all of my information is based on actuary

studies, the information that this legislation is being written on. We also know

what the rest of the provinces have done, as well.

I would like to say to the hon. member that tomorrow it will be here for

debate, to talk about all of the numbers in the legislation. I would like to

just say to the member that the deductible that he is talking about, there are

regulations to be written with that, but I would like to tell you up front what

the deductible is.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Premier.

Will the Premier acknowledge that the insurance reforms introduced in his

legislation fall far short of what was promised by him last August? That, in

fact, there is no protection for age, gender and marital status discrimination;

that there is no 20 per cent reduction in rates; and, in fact, the only savings

are to the insurance companies, by reducing compensation in the hope that they

will lower the rates.

Mr. Speaker, will he admit, will he acknowledge, that they are far short of

those expectations that he created, and far short of what the public expects,

and certainly far short of what would be received under a public insurance

system?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we are quite pleased and quite proud of this legislation which

we have before the House. What we have done is, we have spent a great deal of

time actually looking into it. We have also canvassed the actual experience in

the other provinces, in the Maritime Provinces, spoken with the Premiers of New

Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island, seen what their experience is

with their legislation, been told by them what the flaws and what the problems

are with their legislation.

Rather than just bull forward with a position and not listen to anybody else,

we have listened and we have consulted. We have consulted with the industry, we

have consulted with stakeholders, and, as a result, we have looked at the

original proposal and we have decided that modifications needed to be done. As

well, there is a further safeguard, that besides the legislation that is before

this House, and is going to be debated before this House - and we welcome the

debate, we look forward to the debate. Just as we participated in the Freedom of

Information debate, we had very value contributions, and we look forward to good

contributions from hon. members opposite.

What I was about to say is, after the legislation is in this House, and if it

is approved -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the Premier now to complete his answer.

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If the legislation is approved by this House, then there are going to be

hearings that are going to take place after a closed claims study is complete,

because we have the Closed Claims Study now. If I remember correctly, it is

probably about seven or eight years old. It is back, I think, in the mid-1990s.

We are going to get all the available information, then we are going to have

a comprehensive omnibus hearing that is going to deal with automobile insurance

and home insurance and commercial insurance and marine insurance. We are going

to look at all of it, and at the end of the day we are going to do it right.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I understand that this government proposes to have the PUB conduct those

hearings sometime in the fall. If he really had looked around the Atlantic

Provinces, Mr. Speaker, he would have noted that his counterpart in New

Brunswick, Premier Lord and his government, established an all-party committee

of their Legislature to look into public automobile insurance. They produced a

report in April recommending just that very thing, based on what they want in

New Brunswick.

Will the Premier also consider having an all-party select committee of this

House to look into and study the feasibility of a public automobile insurance

plan for Newfoundland and Labrador? Will he do that?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh !

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, there have been all-party select

committees of this House. The former government's committee reported in 1998,

if I remember correctly. That was left on the shelf until they lost the

government. They did absolutely nothing.

I would like to think that the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi

would like to have a good public consultation process. We have already done it

within the House. There have been all-party select committees. They have made

their reports. We do have the benefit of that information.

What I think you would agree with, though, is a full consultation with the

general public, whereby there is a full hearing, whereby people can make

representation, people can make submissions, hon. members opposite can make

submissions, and the government will be party to it. Everybody will have an

opportunity to come up with the best possible piece of legislation in the entire

country.

That is our goal as a government and we will deliver on that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi has time for one short

supplementary.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The all-party committee in New Brunswick consulted widely with the people of

that province, to determine what kind of public auto system they wanted. Why

should the people of Newfoundland and Labrador not have that opportunity to

influence all members of this House to come up with a plan that is good for

Newfoundland and Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, no consultation could be done with the people of Newfoundland

and Labrador until we had the best available information to place before them.

This is why I have said before that the Closed Claims Study that is now

presently in existence is antiquated. It is old information. It is not the best

available information. As well, we had to wait for the actuarial reports that

came from the Public Utilities Board. We also had to wait for a report that was

commissioned by this government.

What we are trying to do is get all of the information available, put it out

in the public domain, let people have a look at it, let people consider it, let

people test it, let people ask questions about it, and then we can have a

complete hearing. I cannot see how the hon. gentleman opposite could have any

objection with an open and transparent process like that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Tourism, or the alternate.

A couple of weeks ago we heard a glossy indicator report by the Minister of

Tourism, Culture and Recreation. I decided, Mr. Speaker, to do my own survey and

call some service providers around the West Coast. Here is what I got for

indicators.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JOYCE: Fees are skyrocketing for tourist items such as vehicle

insurance, business insurance, gasoline, ferry rates, park fees, and bed and

breakfast registration. The list is never-ending and rising every day. The rate

to licence a food premise, the hallmark of our tourism industry, is going from

zero dollars to as much as $300, Mr. Speaker. This past weekend, a camper on the

West Coast was passed by the campers in a lineup, and when it came to pay he had

to pay $20 for his car, $20 for his motor home, and $13 for his campsite. How

can the minister honestly stand in this House and say that he is promoting

Island tourism to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the document that the Member for the Bay of Islands refers to -

saying about the Tourism Minister - that he conducted his own survey, I wonder,

at some point throughout the day, would he be able to table his survey so we can

find out exactly how scientific and unbiased that survey really is?

The fact of the matter is this, Mr. Speaker: This government is very

committed to tourism. The budget process proved that. We invested more than $1

million over and above, in this year's Budget, to enhance tourism, to promote

Newfoundland and Labrador, to increase business opportunities for

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. The fact of the matter is, that is exactly

what is happening. The official, unbiased, report shows that tourism indicators

are through the roof. That is what the member is not acknowledging.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: There is time for one very quick supplementary.

The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, to the Government House Leader, I do not have to

table it because it is included in the 150 fee increases that your government

just implemented. I do not have to include it. If you want me to give you a

copy, I will give you a copy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, there is an old saying: Charity starts at home.

What this government is saying is that the increased fees start at home. To

advertise in the Newfoundland and Labrador Travel Guide, rates have increased

for some ads almost 250 per cent, in their own documents. This is the same

tourism guide in which the Minister of Tourism invites the tourists to visit The

Rooms in St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member now to complete his question.

MR. JOYCE: These costs have to be passed on to consumers, tourists, and

these costs are hurting the small rural businesses of Newfoundland and Labrador.

How can the minister say that these outrageous rates, which are tabled by his

own minister, are not hurting tourism in Newfoundland and Labrador?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader, time for a very short

reply.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Stay with me for a second, Mr. Speaker, and all hon.

members. Can you see the survey that was done by the member? He went home the

weekend, consulted friends and family, and said: What do you think about A, B,

C, D, E, F and G? The fact of the matter is, he said that he did his own survey.

I would like to know who he surveyed.

The truth of it is this: Tourism in Newfoundland and Labrador is on the rise.

This government recognizes the importance of it, both for outfitters in the

Province or people - for outfitters in terms of depending on national and

international business, and we have committed - the fact of the matter is this.

There are two facts that the member must acknowledge: One, that we have

committed way over and above what the former government did, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the minister now to complete his answer quickly.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

- and we are committed to having the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

tourism industry have more funding than what a brewery had for promotions.

Secondly, Mr. Speaker, and most importantly, tourism indicators show clearly

that tourism in Newfoundland and Labrador is on the rise and what this

government has committed to can only enhance that rise.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The time for Oral Questions has expired.

Presenting reports by standing and select committees.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and

Employment.

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today in the House to table the 2003 Annual

Report for the Workplace Health, Safety and Compensation Commission.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Tabling further reports?

The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in the House today to table the 2002-2003 annual performance report

for the Department of Health and Community Services.

MR. SPEAKER: Tabling further reports?

The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased today to table the 2002-2003 Annual Report for the Department of

Environment, and also to table the Multi-Materials Stewardship Board Annual

Report for 2003.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Tabling further reports? Notices of motions? Answers to

questions for which notice has been given? Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of people in my district with

regard to the Williams Harbour access road, Mr. Speaker.

The people in this community were very hopeful this year that they would get

a road connection to their community. The engineering work is done, the

environmental assessment is completed, but, Mr. Speaker, the government opposite

have decided: No, we are going to put that particular piece of road on hold. So

this community, which is eighteen kilometres from the main highway, from the

main Trans-Labrador Highway, will not be getting a road, Mr. Speaker. Instead,

the money will be used to operate a ferry into the minister's own District of

Lewisporte.

Mr. Speaker, it is unbelievable. It is absolutely unbelievable, when you look

at the fact that every municipality in Labrador, sitting at the Combined

Councils meeting of Labrador, passed a motion, supported a motion to have money

spent out of the Labrador Fund to build a road to Williams Harbour. There is

$107 million in this fund. It grew by $4.5 million last year, in interest. But,

Mr. Speaker, the custodians of the fund today, the minister for Labrador, the

Minister of Transportation, the custodians of the fund have said: No, we are

going to, instead, use this money to put the ferry into Lewisporte.

Now, Mr. Speaker, this is the situation. This is the situation and the people

will not believe it. The people of Williams Harbour will go without a road. The

people in my district will not have snow clearing on their road, Mr. Speaker.

That was the announcement in the Budget. We will not snow clear the eighty-three

kilometres of road from Red Bay to Lodge Bay because there is too much snow

there. That is the situation opposite. But, Mr. Speaker, they have no regrets

with taking $700,000 out of the Labrador Fund; stealing the money out of the

fund to take it and operate a terminal facility in the community of Lewisporte

and to keep eight people on the payroll this year, to have freight services put

into Labrador, when the people in Labrador - that was not what they asked for,

Mr. Speaker. I know, because I have met with them all. I have met with almost

every town and every municipality and every chamber and every zonal board up

there. That was not, indeed, what they wanted.

Mr. Speaker, just to add insult to injury now, not only did the minister go

and take the Labrador Fund money to open a terminal in Lewisporte but now he is

going to move his constituency office into the terminal facility. I know it to

be true, Mr. Speaker, because the minister said it in the Estimates Committee.

The Minister for Labrador Affairs, and Fisheries and Aquaculture might not know,

but the Minister of Transportation and Works admitted that he was putting his

office in the terminal facility in Lewisporte. Yes, indeed he did. That is being

done, yet the people in Labrador cannot access money to have snow cleared off

their roads, to have a highway built into Williams Harbour.

Mr. Speaker, what makes matters even worse is that -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

MS JONES: May I have leave, Mr. Speaker, to clue up my comments?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.

MR. SPEAKER: The member has leave of ten seconds.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think what makes matters even worse is that the public has learned today,

Mr. Speaker, that $150,000 that the previous Liberal government paid out to

Lewisporte for economic development was done when the marine services was taken

out of the community. Today, Mr. Speaker, not only have all the marine services

been reinstated to Lewisporte but they have still maintained the $150,000

economic development fund. The Labrador Transportation Initiative will pay for

the cost of operating the boats and running the terminal, and the people of

Labrador are getting no job creation. They are losing economic development. They

have lost the marine services and now, Mr. Speaker, they are going to pay the

subsidy to continue to operate it in Lewisporte. While all this is done, the

people in Williams Harbour continue to go where the highway access is only

eighteen kilometres from their community. It is shameful! It is almost too

shameful to stand up here in this House and talk about.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise to today to present a petition on behalf of people all across

Labrador. It is a plea for the auditorium that is so badly needed to service all

of the people in Labrador, especially the youth. Mr. Speaker, I guess it is a

little due - bad in Labrador. The Premier jumped on the bandwagon to address

issues on George Street. I have asked him to address issues on the North Coast.

He said he would look at it but it is not important enough to do what he has

done for St. John's.

I challenged the Minister of Transportation regarding the motor vessel that

goes to the North Coast of Labrador a month ago in the House, re the plight of

the people on the North Coast for a further fourteen day service. Over a seven

day service, he would consider. We have not gotten back to him. I understand,

though, that the government is going to do some work with The Rooms so work can

be done. Yet, Mr. Speaker, the people in Labrador do not have an auditorium and

it is our young people who are hurting.

Mr. Speaker, in February the Minister of Municipal Affairs said that the $2.4

million was still there but this government chose to take it away. What they are

doing is they are depriving the people in Labrador, especially our young people,

of having different meetings there where they get together for the drama

festivals and so on. People all across this Province are booking groups to put

off plays in different communities, except for Happy Valley-Goose Bay because

they do not have an auditorium.

The federal government has committed funds of over $300,000 and if the

invoices are not in place by this fall, then the people up there stand to lose

that money. Most important of all are the children in Labrador who are being

deprived of a facility. That money was already allotted for - for the sake of

$2.4 million. For this government to turn around and deprive the children in

Labrador, I do not think it speaks very highly of this government and of the

priorities that they have; priorities that elsewhere, they will take a look at

it. Nine chances out of ten they will do it, but when it comes to Labrador, it

is hands off. You wait. You are second fiddle. You wait until next year. If we

go beyond June or July then it is going to be too late again and it is going to

be another year wasted. Because of the short construction season in Labrador, if

something is not done before the end of June, then it is going to be two years

before a building is going to be completed.

Where else in this Province are you going to stand and know that children in

schools are deprived of their right to go out there and show off their culture,

their heritage and their pride and to perform the way students in the rest of

Newfoundland and Labrador can do and all across Canada.

Mr. Speaker, again, today I ask this government to stand on its feet and do

the right thing and give to the children in Labrador the auditorium that every

other community -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MR. ANDERSEN: - in this Province takes for granted.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be back tomorrow.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?

The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. YOUNG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to present a petition today on behalf of the people from St.

Paul's to Bellburns concerning the level of health care in the area.

To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador in Legislative

Assembly convened, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and

Labrador;

WHEREAS through a leaked report prepared by the Western Health Care

Corporation for government, it was learned that two options relating to the

closure of rural clinics have the clinics in Parsons Pond, Cow Head and Daniel's

Harbour up for closure; and

WHEREAS the majority of area residents are seniors who are on a fixed income,

the expense of transporting patients to health care facilities would be borne by

other governmental departments as well as increase the usage of ambulance

services;

WHEREFORE your petitioners are opposed to either of the possible options and

urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to consider that removing

clinics from rural areas will not make a real difference in eliminating budget

deficits and to keep the rural clinics in Parsons Pond, Cow Head and Daniel's

Harbour.

As in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to just add that there have been no decisions made

on the closure of those three clinics and that this leaked report will not be

the basis for any future directions for the health care provided in this area.

People are concerned in the area. Any lowering of the level of health care in

the area is very much a concern of people, and in expressing that concern, I am

very concerned and will do what I can to see that we continue on providing the

same services that we have. One of the important things that was pointed out to

me is that with a number of the seniors - as I mentioned in the petition, the

fear is that they will not get the level of health care that they are getting

now. The clinics are in their communities, they can get there in a timely

manner, and their health care concerns will not escalate out of control and then

be an added cost. So they look at it - having this service in their community -

as a savings to government in the long term, and the health and well-being of

their parents, in particular, to continue on having a healthy lifestyle as they

had in the past.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Before I move to Orders of the Day, I want to table the letter today that the

Leader of the Opposition requested from the Premier, the one written to Prime

Minister Paul Martin. I am happy to be able to do so, Mr. Speaker, but to note

that the issues that were raised in this letter deal with oil and gas,

equalization, transfers, fisheries management, hydro power, highways and fixed

link, and, yes, military training in Labrador. I want to table, on behalf of the

government, on behalf of the Premier, that letter which was written last

Tuesday, May 25, 2004, to the Prime Minister of the country.

Mr. Speaker, before we move to the actual Orders of the Day, I do move,

pursuant to Standing Order 11, that the House not close at 5:30 p.m. today.

Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, Motion 6 and Motion 7, move, pursuant to Standing

Order 11, that the House not adjourn at 10:00 p.m.

Mr. Speaker, with that -

MR. SPEAKER: Can we put those motions now and then we will come back to

you?

MR. E. BYRNE: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader has moved that,

pursuant to Standing Order 11, the House not adjourn today at 5:30 p.m.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: Contra-minded, nay.

The motion is carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader also has moved, pursuant to Standing

Order 11, that the House not adjourn at 10:00 p.m. today, Monday, May 31, 2004.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Nay.

MR. SPEAKER: Motion is carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Order 2, a Concurrence Motion, Government Services Committee.

MR. SPEAKER: Order 2 has been moved, the Concurrence Motion for

Government Services Committee debate.

The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to rise and speak on the Concurrence of the Budget today.

Mr. Speaker, I want to start off, I guess, with a couple of things because

when we were going through the Estimates Committees there were a number of

things that we requested of government departments that be tabled in the House

before Concurrence on the Budget. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, I know some of the

information that I requested, that I felt was important for me to have and

review prior to voting on this Budget, I have not received. I am disappointed to

say I have not received it. I can only hope that the agreement of the ministers

and of the departments to forward that information will be met and that it will

be forthcoming.

Mr. Speaker, I want to talk today a little bit about the operations at 5 Wing

Goose Bay. I think to say that any of us were shocked, I suppose, when we seen

the front page

article in The Telegram today on 5 Wing Goose Bay, and the

fact that the writing is on the wall by the federal government and by the

Department of National Defence to close down this entire base, and the fact that

they are looking at establishing a federal-provincial agency which would see it

more run like a business and not necessarily as a military base and so on. It

comes as no big shock because in the last two or three months, Mr. Speaker,

especially since Christmas, what we have seen in Goose Bay, on the ground, a

downscaling of activities as it surrounds the base. We have also seen a number

of military personnel who have been given notices of transfer, to be transferred

to other bases within Canada; most of them to Cold Lake, Alberta, which is a

base that operates similar type activities as 5 Wing Goose Bay does.

Mr. Speaker, we kind of knew, I guess, the situation that we have been

dealing with over the past number of months. When the Premier and the Member for

Lake Melville did their trip to Europe and met with people in Germany, in

particular, I could have told them before they went that there are bases closing

down all over Germany, military bases, simply because the German government no

longer has the fiscal ability to be able to maintain all of these bases. I think

this year alone, you are going to see seven military bases closed out in

Germany. So, Mr. Speaker, to go knocking on their doors before we have a secure

commitment from the federal government to have a Canadian operated base funded

through the Department of National Defence, before we even have our own country

and our own military personnel with a commitment to use this base for the long

term, we are over knocking on doors all over Europe.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I am so saddened to hear this because I have lived in

Labrador, lived adjacent to Goose Bay, know full well how the military base

operates and how important it is to the local economy of Goose Bay and, indeed,

to all of Labrador and to all the Province. I can honestly tell you that if we

are prepared today to let the federal government walk away, closing this base,

downsizing it, turning it over to a private business operation, than you can be

guaranteed to see that the entire economy of Happy Valley-Goose Bay will see a

shift downward because the dependency upon that base and that operation is

tremendous, Mr. Speaker. This is really unfortunate. I think that the time is

right, right now in the middle of a federal election. The timing has never been

better for the Premier and his Cabinet to take a very active, lobby campaign in

this Province, with all of the parties, Mr. Speaker, that are seeking to govern

this nation; with all of the parties that are out there looking to take over the

walls of the Parliament Building in Ottawa, to get a commitment from them on the

continued operations of this particular base to ensure the longevity of it, to

ensure the stability for the local economy in the Lake Melville area and in

other parts of Labrador. Mr. Speaker, that has to happen today. It cannot happen

once the election is over because this is an issue that is current. It is an

issue that is active.

As we speak, Mr. Speaker, in this House of Assembly today, I know that people

in Goose Bay are packing up to move. I know that Canadian personnel have called

in movers to pack their things and move out of the community. That is the

critical circumstance that we are finding ourselves in right now. So, Mr.

Speaker, that is something that cannot wait. It has to be dealt with now, and

commitments like those that we have seen from the Conservative Leader, Stephen

Harper, is not going to help. I was reading the letter that Stephen Harper wrote

to Premier Williams. In it he was asked what his commitment would be to the

activities at 5 Wing Goose Bay. Mr. Speaker, there was no commitment. There was

a commitment to inject $1.2 billion into defence spending, but what does that

mean? We saw a situation in this Province where we had the Premier of the

Province up in Ottawa meeting with the Minister of National Defence and the

Prime Minister, he claims, on 5 Wing, and then a week later, in fact, I think it

may have been the same week, Mr. Speaker, we had the Minister of National

Defence over in Gagetown, Nova Scotia, announcing millions of dollars for

national defence. Was there one cent coming to this Province? Not one. The fact

that Stephen Harper sends out a letter saying he is going to inject $1.2 billion

into defence spending in this country tells me absolutely nothing other than

there is going to be money in defence spending.

Mr. Speaker, we have seen this before. We have seen it where the Premier has

been sitting in the office in Ottawa, he claims, lobbying to get 5 Wing going

and save the base in Goose Bay, and the next day we have seen the federal

Minister in Gagetown announcing millions of dollars in defence spending, and we

not getting one cent out of it for 5 Wing or for anything else. That, Mr.

Speaker, holds little water with me, very little water. That is not a

commitment, all that is is a statement.

I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that whoever takes office in the federal government

will spend billions of dollars, maybe a billion dollars, in defence spending

over the next four or five years in this country, no matter who takes office,

but that holds very little water for me. That doesn't give me any security, as

a person who is living in Happy Valley-Goose Bay and has a mortgage on my house

and a car payment at the bank, and, Mr. Speaker, is driving to work at this base

every day and raising a family and trying to educate my children. That doesn't

give me great comfort, Mr. Speaker, because it tells me absolutely nothing.

What we have to have is a firm commitment on 5 Wing Goose Bay, and that

commitment starts here at home, Mr. Speaker, in our own country. When we have

facilities, to go out all over the world and try and bring in other people from

other countries, who are, in some cases, in worse financial situations in their

own country when it comes to military spending than we are in Canada, Mr.

Speaker, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I also want to talk about a couple of other things. Last week, in the House

of Assembly, I stood up on two occasions and asked questions of the Minister of

Health and Community Services, with regard to health spending. We know in the

midst of this federal election there have been commitments from all the parties,

that there will be more money spent in health care in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, I want to make sure that that new money coming into health care

will be used wisely and to the benefit of the people of the Province. I don't

want to see the government opposite take more money in, in health care, from the

federal government on the one hand, and then take back their own money in their

own budget on the other hand, because that doesn't do anything, Mr. Speaker.

That is just substituting federal dollars for provincial dollars and it is not

enhancing or improving health care for people in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, I asked the question twice and I have never gotten an answer,

but we know what the government opposite did when it came to municipal affairs

funding, don't we? When the federal government came down with the budget,

saying that they would allow municipalities to keep some of the tax dollars that

they had, to help them increase their budgets.

I was reading a commentary in the paper, actually, only today by a person

from the Business Development Council. I thought I had a copy of it there but I

don't have it right now. Mr. Speaker, as he was saying, these municipalities

desperately needed that additional money, but do you know what happened? They

were given the money in one hand and then the provincial government moved in and

clawed it back in the other hand.

Mr. Speaker, that is exactly what is happening, and it is going to happen

over the next two to three years - yes, it will - where the provincial

government will claw back money from certain municipalities in this Province. I

talked to one member with the City of Mount Pearl -

MR. J. BYRNE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A point of order has been raised by the hon. the Minister of Municipal and

Provincial Affairs.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the statement the hon. member just made is absolutely untrue.

The Department of Municipal and Provincial Affairs is not clawing back the gas

money that has been allocated to the -

MS JONES: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Well, that is what the federal government is talking about,

allocating money to the municipalities.

What the department did - and it was before this announcement was ever made

by the federal government - we clawed back $5 million over three years from

fourteen municipalities out of 290. It is completely misleading.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order. The minister has an opportunity at the right time

to participate in debate, in his turn.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The hon. minister will have his twenty minutes to speak on the Budget, just

like I do. The truth of the matter is that, yes, there was more money come into

municipalities in this Province because of a tax break from the federal

government, and the other truth of the matter is that there was $5 million

clawed back by the provincial government in the other hand.

I talked to the City of Mount Pearl, and they told me that they are going to

lose about $600,000 out of their budget because of the actions of that

government. So there was no influx of money for the benefit of municipalities in

this Province. Actually, Mr. Speaker, the victory they thought they had won one

day they had actually lost another day.

Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister, he will have his time to get up and

debate this Budget, just like I do, and he will have an opportunity to speak to

the issues that he wants.

Mr. Speaker, I want to make sure that does not happen with regard to health

care funding in this Province, because we have all heard the commitment for

health care money in the Province. We have all heard that there will be new

money. When you look at things like happened the other day, the University and

the Canadian Cancer Society did a study, and the study was on how patients in

rural areas of the Province and other areas of the Province are affected by

chronic illness. The fact of the matter is this, Mr. Speaker: Many patients in

rural areas of this Province are not accessing the treatments that they require,

the medical services that they require, when they have serious chronic illness,

because of the cost that is included.

I know for a fact, Mr. Speaker, that this happens. I never realized it until

I read the study to the extremity that it does happen, but I am aware of it. I

live in my district where I have had people come into St. John's for kidney

dialysis treatments, for cancer treatments, and it is very expensive. It is

very, very expensive, the airline costs and so on.

Mr. Speaker, one of the things I would like to see the minister do with this

new money that will come from Ottawa is to set up a fund, a fund that would be

there to help chronically ill patients in our Province access the services they

need. I know of situations where patients with serious illnesses have been sent

home and could not buy the proper medication that they needed because they did

not have the income to do so, and there was no support there for them to do it,

so they went without the treatment, therefore compromising their own health

further than it already was. That is wrong and that should not be happening in

Newfoundland and Labrador. Maybe it took the Cancer Society and maybe it took

the University to bring the message of these people to the House of Assembly and

to us as politicians, but the message has been received loud and clear by this

member and I, for one, will tell you that I will be working hard for these

people in our Province to ensure that they have the proper access to health care

services and health benefits and medications, irregardless of their income. Mr.

Speaker, not every person can afford to have the treatment that they desperately

require, but they are entitled to it and therefore means should be made to

ensure that they get it.

Mr. Speaker, before I sit down, I also want to have a few words with regard

to the marine services, because it is unbelievable the fact that right now, in

Lewisporte, $700,000 of the Labrador Fund will go to keep the marine services

terminal open in Lewisporte, to keep eight or ten people employed there this

year, and, in addition that, there will be a fuel cost of running the ferries

into Lewisporte, which the minister could not tell me the amount because they

did not have it marked out in the Budget so they did not know how much it was

going to cost. Mr. Speaker, I can tell you what it is going to cost. It is 1,000

litres an hour to run that boat into Lewisporte. It is forty-eight hours of

steaming for each trip. Mr. Speaker, you do the math because you can figure out

the cost per litre on fuel. I can guarantee you that it is going to be another

$600,000 or $700,000 worth of fuel to run that boat in there this summer. All of

that money will come out of the Labrador Transportation Fund.

Then, to add insult to injury, the minister has the nerve to go out and set

up his constituency office in the terminal facility in Lewisporte, the same

terminal facility that we are paying out of the Labrador Fund to keep open, the

same facility that I do not want open, that nobody in Labrador wants open, but

anyway, they are going to keep it open and they are going to use the money to do

it. Do you know something? It is absolutely disgusting; that is what it is.

There are two ministers on that side who have been given the privilege of being

custodians of the Labrador Transportation Fund. The Minister for Labrador, the

Member for The Straits & White Bay North, and the Minister for Aboriginal

Affairs and Transportation and Works, the Member for Lewisporte, have been given

the privilege to be the custodians of $107 million to be spent in Labrador. Do

you know what they are doing? They are paying to put a boat in Lewisporte, they

are paying to keep a terminal facility open in Lewisporte, they are paying to

keep a few jobs on the wharf in Lewisporte, and at the same time they are giving

them $150,000 to keep for economic development.

While all of this is happening, the people in my district, the people who own

the fund, have no say in it - but they own the fund, own the money - and cannot

get a road built into the community of Williams Harbour, cannot get the snow

cleared off eighty-three kilometers of road between Red Bay and Lodge Bay,

cannot have the Labrador ferry service based in Labrador, cannot get a

year-round reservation service on the MV Apollo, the ferry on the Strait

of Belle Isle. Mr. Speaker, where is the justice in all of this? Where is the

justice?

I have been pleading with the government opposite. I have been pleading with

the minister, Mr. Speaker, to listen to the people in Labrador, to listen to the

people who want to have a voice, who want to have some say and want to have some

control over what is happening; but, no, Mr. Speaker, they are being completely

ignored and it is absolutely ridiculous. I do not think that anywhere else in

this country - and I would go as far to say nowhere else in this country - would

you have a fund that is set up for people in one region of the Province and the

custodians of that fund abuse it and ill-use it to meet their own political

agenda the way that the government opposite have and the ministers opposite

have, Mr. Speaker.

I can guarantee you that my district will suffer because of it. Labrador will

suffer because of it. I did not see anyone on that side getting up saying here

is a $150,000 fund for the people in Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair district

because of the loss of jobs, the loss of services and the businesses that will

close up there, Mr. Speaker. Nobody over there stood up and said, here is your

$150,000 fund for economic development like Lewisporte is after getting.

Here we have a situation now where Lewisporte has gotten a $150,000 Economic

Development Fund, they have gotten all of the ferries back, the minister is

getting his nice little office up in the ferry terminal and, Mr. Speaker, they

are all happy. Well, no one up my way is happy, I can guarantee you that. If

they were able to come in here to this House today, you would not find one of

them up there who would support this Budget or support that decision, Mr.

Speaker, not one of them, but I can guarantee you now that they will pay for it,

and you fellows are making sure that they do.

We have a situation now where you are not going to clear eighty-three

kilometers of road, Mr. Speaker, a brand new road from Red Bay to Lodge Bay.

They are going to close that road from November 1 to May 1. That is what the

minister said to me. He actually put it in writing to me as well. They are going

to close it from November 1 to May 1.

Mr. Speaker, when the road was built in my district, the people who owned gas

stations took out their gas storage tanks. They have nowhere to store fuel now

for five or six months of the year. When the road when through, Mr. Speaker, and

a truck was pulling up to their business every day, off-loading freight, they

closed down their storage houses and their warehouses. They sold them off,

converted them to other things. It does not exist now. Where are they going to

stock groceries for six months out of a year? They never dreamed, Mr. Speaker,

in all their days, that they would have to be confronted with a situation like

they are being confronted with now, where money out of their own fund will not

be used to clear snow off their road but will be used to keep a terminal open in

Lewisporte. That is wrong, Mr. Speaker. That is absolutely wrong. This year,

these people - on November 1, the gates will close. No one will have access to

the road. The ferry will run, Mr. Speaker, until the first or second week of

January, but no one will be able to access it because the road will be closed.

Mr. Speaker, I cannot believe the narrow-sightedness, the narrow-mindedness,

the level of thinking that exists within the minister's department, the

Minister of Transportation and Works, the Minister for Labrador Affairs, and the

Cabinet, Mr. Speaker, to make a decision with such implications to people; it is

unbelievable.

I say, Mr. Speaker, the Member for Bell Island might be sitting back and

smiling and laughing at me today, but I can guarantee you -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

MS JONES: - that the road in my district is every bit as important as the

ferry that goes into her district, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the -

MS JONES: She would not be laughing today -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: - if the ferry link to her district was cut.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the member that her time has lapsed.

MS JONES: May I have leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: No.

MR. SPEAKER: No leave.

The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just to clarify it, I was sitting down having a chat with the Minister of

Government Services. I do not know where the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au

Clair came up with the idea that she was laughing at something that she was

saying; because, to be honest with you, we were not listening that intently to

what you were saying after the first five minutes.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to have the opportunity, if I could, to make a few

comments on the Government Services Committee, which I had the opportunity to

Chair during the Budget Debate this year. I want to take the opportunity in my

opening remarks to thank the members of the Committee who served. We ran a

couple of major sessions. One was with the Department of Transportation and

Works, and Aboriginal Affairs. We had to have two sittings to get through the

total Budget Details of those specific departments, and certainly we welcome

that opportunity, for the Opposition to question the minister and the staff of

each department on the different issues and concerns that they have with the

department in relation to the Budget Details. It is a great opportunity, I say,

Mr. Speaker.

I had the opportunity many times as a member of the Opposition to partake in

the Budget Debate, and certainly partake in the Estimates Committee. For those

who are not aware of what Estimates Committees are all about - especially those

who may be watching on T.V. - it is an opportunity for a Committee of the House

that has representation from both sides, the government side and the Opposition

side, to come to a meeting outside of the confines of the House of Assembly, in

most cases, to sit down and go through the Budget Details, line-by-line items,

and ask the minister - and the minister is present with all of his or her staff

here in the House. It gives an opportunity for anybody to ask a question on the

department; to question the salaries, to question the dollars being spent in

that department, to question over and above anything related to the department

itself. I think most people find that a useful exercise that is sometimes long

and drawn out, as in the case of the Department of Transportation and Works. We

spent almost seven hours, two different sittings, to get through that particular

department. I think, as I said, it was a very useful exercise, especially with

the many things that are going on in the Province in relation to different

departments.

In the Government Services Committee we had a couple of the main departments

here in government that many people out in the Province are asking questions

about. We had the Department of Finance and Treasury Board, and the hon.

Minister Sullivan and his staff went through the process. In the Department of

Transportation and Works, and Aboriginal Affairs we had the hon. Minister

Rideout with his staff, who gave us an excellent briefing, I thought, on that

department also. Also, we had the Minister of Government Services, Minister

Whalen and her staff, who gave, what I thought, an excellent presentation in

relation to the details and the concerns that are within that department as it

relates to ferry services here in the Province; as it relates to the insurance

that is forthcoming here in the House tomorrow, the new Insurance Act, Mr.

Speaker, the insurance legislation. It certainly was a great opportunity to

question and critique that as much as we could prior to the legislation coming

to the House.

Mr. Speaker, I thought the three departments that we went though was a useful

exercise. It certainly gives some opportunity for all members to voice their

concerns, ask questions and to critique the ministers on what their departments

have planned for this upcoming fiscal year.

With that, I would like to touch on a couple of things that came up in the

discussions that we had. I will take one department at a time. In the

discussions that we had with the Minister of Transportation and Works, and

Aboriginal Affairs, there was much discussion around the ferry system in the

Province as it relates to the minister's department. As I say, we have sixteen

different ferry services which are creating interprovincial ferry services that

are operating here in the Province. A lot of these ferries are getting old now

and certainly are in need of repair. There are places in the Province, I am

sure, that would welcome a new ferry, if it were possible to put the funds

forward to deal with that. We had the opportunity to have an excellent, forward

discussion on that in the House during the Estimates meetings. The minister, I

felt, came forward and laid out what they hoped to be able to, the plans, in

order to address some of the concerns, understanding the fiscal realities that

we have to deal with here in the Province, Mr. Speaker, but also understanding

the need for good, reliable, safe transportation here in Newfoundland and

Labrador, whether that is through the ferry system, whether that is on the

Trans-Canada Highway, or whether it is in the different roads throughout the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

To talk about the roads, Mr. Speaker. We had an opportunity during the

Estimates also - and I seen here in the House, an opportunity to ask the

minister questions and raise issues in relation to this year's Provincial

Roads Program. I, as a member of the government, Mr. Speaker, was very pleased

when we had the opportunity to increase the Provincial Roads Program from $23

million in the last fiscal year up to $30 million this fiscal year; an increase

of $7 million. That money came from an increase in registering motor vehicles.

There was some concern raised with that but, at the same time, that $40 increase

will give the government an opportunity to put an extra $7 million into the

Provincial Roads Program this year. Coming from the District of Placentia &

St. Mary's, which I represent and live in, Mr. Speaker, that $7 million is

welcome news to the people out in that district.

I had the opportunity, back a couple of weeks ago, to take the Minister of

Transportation and Works to my district for a day, to tour the roads and the

highways in the district, and to have a couple of meetings with different groups

and organizations within the district to discuss with them the drastic need for

road repair. Certainly, what we hope to see is funding allocated in this year's

budget to address some of that concern. Knowing full well that we have been

pretty well over a decade now without having any major work done in the district

in relation to the roads and that the minister has committed to looking at that

over the next four years, four construction seasons that we have in this

mandate, Mr. Speaker, to address some of the concerns that people have in the

District of Placentia & St. Mary's. That is certainly welcome news to my

ears, and I am sure to the ears of the community leaders who are out in the

District of Placentia & St. Mary's. I refer especially to the people who

are down in the communities of River Head, Mall Bay, St. Mary's, Gaskiers,

Point La Haye, St. Vincent's, Peter's River and St. Stephens who have been

sending in petitions to me to raise here in the House, which I have done so on

their behalf. I think we have a few more that are on the way now.

Mr. Speaker, getting back to it, if I could for a moment. The issue of the

$30 million this year is welcome news, and I am sure that all members welcome

that. Hopefully, over the next couple of weeks we will be hearing on the

specifics in relation to where that $30 million is going to be spent as it

relates to people who need road work done in their districts.

Another big issue that came up, Mr. Speaker, during the debate was the

closure of some of the highway depots in our Province and the realignment of

management. Anytime there is anything closed, anytime that there is anything

rearranged or whatever the case may be, there are always concerns that are

raised; there are always issues that are raised with that. Again, the department

is trying to find ways to address the financial mess that we were left with, Mr.

Speaker. One of the ways they are looking at that is to look at some highway

depots in the Province in relation to closing down during the summertime and

having them all open during the wintertime, and in relation to summer

maintenance. Certainly, there has been a concern raised in my district again

with a couple of depots there that I am discussing with the minister and,

hopefully, we will find some way of correcting that or improving that so the

people receive the service that they so rightfully deserve.

Also, Mr. Speaker, there were concerns raised in relation to maintenance. The

maintenance on our highways over the past number of years, apart from the

Trans-Canada, down throughout the districts, my District of Placentia & St.

Mary's, and, indeed, I am sure many, many districts in the Province, is that

for the past ten or twelve years the maintenance budget of the former Department

of Works, Services and Transportation, now the Department of Transportation and

Works, has been drastically reduced, and we see that. If you take a ride

anywhere in this Province now, down around rural Newfoundland and Labrador, and

especially in my District of Placentia & St. Mary's, which I can speak for

wholeheartedly, is that the roads are deplorable based on the fact that the

previous Administration just basically gave up on maintenance, gave up on

maintaining those roads to a safe standard. That is why we have such a mess

today, and trying to deal with that mess today is a very costly matter and one

that we are trying to address, but, at the same time, we will definitely fall

short of being able to address everybody's concerns for the simple reason of

the amount of money that is needed.

Now, Mr. Speaker, another issue that came up under the Department of

Government Services and one which will be tabled here tomorrow, I understand -

it was tabled but it will begin debate on tomorrow - is the insurance

legislation. I heard several questions being asked today to the Minister of

Government Services in relation to the insurance package that government is

putting forward. I find it very ironic that members across the way would be so

quick to jump on a piece of legislation that has come forward from this

government after seven months in power, when they, themselves, spent 174 months

in power and failed to bring reforms to insurance forward here in this House. In

the short time that we have been here we are making a first step, I understand,

in that regard tomorrow here in the House.

I look forward to the Minister of Government Services bringing forward that

piece of legislation and beginning the debate on what many people in the

Province are hoping will be an opportunity to save dollars, but also an

opportunity not to give up and not to throw away rights and privileges that they

have now under current legislation. I think everybody, myself included, would

like the opportunity to be able to save money, would like the opportunity to

have reduced insurance rates but, at the same time, not to be put in the

situation where, because we are going to have a reduction in rates, that we lose

something, that we lose an opportunity that we have and lose the rights and

privileges that we have under present legislation. I hope that we are able - and

I am sure after talking and discussing the legislation that we are in an

opportunity to spread out across the board savings to every Newfoundlander and

Labradorian, hopefully, Mr. Speaker, and at the same time have the protection

that the drivers, people who are going on the highways now, want and certainly

deserve to have.

As in any piece of legislation, I am sure there will be an opportunity to put

forward any amendments that the Opposition may come forward with. We, as a

government, will decide whether they are worthy of including with the piece of

legislation or not.

It is a first step. I am very pleased today to hear the Premier stand and

state that there is going to be a consultation process carried out throughout

the Province over the next several months which will look at improving - adding

to or taking away from, whatever the case may be - in relation to the piece of

legislation. That is something that I am sure the members of the public are

looking forward to, Mr. Speaker. I, as a Member of the House of Assembly, am

certainly looking forward to the opportunity for the people in my district, and

the people I represent, having the opportunity to come forward and address any

concerns that they have, any issues that they have, and hopefully any

improvements that they have to ensure that we have fair, equitable, but at the

same time something that is safe and worthy of legislation here in the Province.

Mr. Speaker, it certainly goes to show the commitment that we have as a

government in relation to addressing the insurance concerns. It was a major

concern with people during the election campaign, not as large a concern as what

the Opposition tried to make it - the former Administration tried to make it -

but certainly a very important issue for the people of the Province.

Hopefully we will begin the process tomorrow of addressing some of the

inequities that we have in the insurance industry in the Province, Mr. Speaker,

and hopefully over the next couple of days we will get to debate that piece of

legislation, move forward with the consultations throughout the Province, and

hopefully be able to clue it up in the fall session of the House and be able to

address the concerns that people have.

Mr. Speaker, we also had the opportunity, as the Government Services

Committee, to question and to have before us the Minister of Finance and the

President of Treasury Board and his complete staff. It was a very worthwhile

exercise indeed. Many questions were raised by several members of the Committee

in relation to the financial situation of the Province, trying to find out where

government's priorities are in relation to spending, and more, I guess, in

relation to saving, where we can save necessary dollars without cutting services

where possible to the people of the Province. Again, it was what I believe to be

another worthwhile exercise in relation to the Minister of Finance and Treasury

Board's statement, and certainly their questions - sorry, not their questions,

their answers.

We found ourselves in a very precarious situation this year in the Province.

We became the government on October 21 of last fall and were sworn in on

November 6 or 7, I believe. We found ourselves knowing full well that we had a

large debt to deal with here in the Province, knowing full well that we had

fifteen years of the previous Administration, and that there was not a lot of

concern raised in the last three or four years in relation to the amount of

spending that was going on. Therefore, we find ourselves touching almost a

billion dollar debt just this year alone and trying to address that as a

government and, at the same time, trying to provide services to the people of

the Province. It is a very difficult task, but one that I am sure the Minister

of Finance and President of Treasury Board, and indeed the Cabinet and indeed

the caucus, everybody within caucus, is putting their best foot forward in

trying to do.

In doing that, in addressing the financial situation that we are left with,

we find that at times you will end up upsetting certain sectors of the Province.

There is no doubt that nobody wants to hear of cutbacks or nobody wants to hear

of reductions in services in any way, shape or form, but my district, like every

other district, had to take their share of that. Certainly, we hope that over

the next little while our economy will improve and find ways of bringing

improvements out into the districts and indeed out into the Province. At the

present time now, we find a situation that we have been left with, $1 billion

this year. If there is something not done to correct it, we will spiral up to

$15 billion in the long term, over the next three to four years. I think it is a

very serious situation that government has agreed to tackle to the best of their

ability, and I certainly believe that the people of the Province, even though

some people are upset from time to time in relation to decisions that are made,

I guess decisions that are made in relation to any services that we have to

reduce or cut, it is something that nobody likes but, at the same time, I think

the people of the Province agree that the issue has to be addressed. It has to

be addressed in a way that is fair and equitable to people within Newfoundland

and Labrador, but at the same time it has to be addressed for the betterment of

the people of the Province and indeed for the future of Newfoundland and

Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, I think that overall the Estimates Committee meetings went

fairly well. As I said, we managed to finish up the department of the Minister

of Finance and President of Treasury Board within the time that we allowed, and

with regard to Government Services we had the opportunity to do the same thing.

When it came to Transportation and Works, and Aboriginal Affairs, we went into a

second session, which just shows the importance of that department to the people

of Newfoundland and Labrador, and certainly the commitment of the minister and

his officials to ensure that services of that department are put forward.

One thing that we raise is that right here, this year, now, the minister

informs us that he could use somewhere around $800 million on roadwork in this

Province. There is a need from somewhere between $600 million to $800 million

worth of roadwork, which includes upgrading, which includes recapping, which

includes the construction of new roads, which includes repairs to bridges,

ditching, and so on and so forth - somewhere around the $800 million mark -

where, as I mentioned earlier in my remarks, we are at a level of $30 million

for Provincial Roads Program this year. It just goes to show on one hand what we

had to spend on roads in the Province, but on the other hand the need and the

necessity that is out in Newfoundland and Labrador in relation to roadwork.

There is no doubt in my mind, as the minister put forward during the Estimates

meetings, that we need a federal infusion of money into the roads in this

Province. We just pretty well finished up the Roads for Rail Agreement, the

Trunk Roads Agreement, as a couple of examples, and an opportunity through those

programs to spend several hundred million dollars on roads in this Province. I,

in my district, have seen the improvements of that. At the same time, right now,

there is a major need in this Province for a provincial-federal agreement on

roads, Mr. Speaker, and I hope that the government can work with the new

government in Ottawa, whoever they may be after June 28, and put forward - put

in place - a federal-provincial roads program to address some of the concerns,

not only for the people - Mr. Speaker, we all talk about the tourism development

that came up here in Question Period today. I am certainly looking forward to

the Member for Bay of Islands putting forward his survey that he did over the

weekend. It will certainly be interesting to see. Coming from a tourism

background, I would certainly like to see his report and the study that he did,

Mr. Speaker, and give an opportunity to critique that and have a look at it.

Mr. Speaker, it is not only the people who are coming into the Province, that

we talk about all the time in relation to the tourism development. It is the

people within the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, the people I represent

here in the House, the people we all represent here in the House, the

500,000-plus people in this Province who travel over the roads time and time

again. I think, as part of this Confederation of Canada, that the federal

government should be putting major money forward to address some of the road

concerns that we have in this Province, Mr. Speaker. I think that only by that,

only by the federal government putting money on the table, and a cost-share

agreement with the Province, can we begin to address some of the concerns that

we have with the roads in this Province. I think it is very important that we do

that.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I would just like to clue up my remarks and say that

I want to congratulate the Committee on both sides of the House, members of the

Opposition and members of the government who sat on the Committee, for their

indulgence in going through the Departments of Transportation and Works and

Aboriginal Affairs, the Department of Finance, Treasury Board and Government

Services. I certainly wish the three ministers well, whom we dealt with, over

the next year into their mandates, to try to address some of the concerns that

were not only raised during the Estimates but were raised by the people of the

Province now and again, Mr. Speaker. With that, I would like to say thank you

once again to the members of the Committee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Before the Chair recognizes the Member for Grand

Falls-Buchans, the Chair would like to bring members' attention to some

practices that are happening here in the House which are certainly against the

rules and regulations of the House.

It has been a common practice this past number of days for members, in their

activity in passing back and forth through the House, or exiting the House, to

pass between the person who is speaking and the Chair, and that is certainly

unparliamentary. It is unparliamentary for members to sit with their backs to

the Chair. It is unparliamentary for members to pass between the mace and the

Chair. These are common practices that have been happening. Some members are

probably not aware of this practice, but I would just like to remind members and

ask if they would uphold the long-standing traditions of the Legislature.

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am delighted that you are setting the decorum here as it should be, because

this is an hon. House and we must do our best, being elected by the people of

this Province, to respect the rules of this House and represent our people well.

Some of the behaviour that has been going on here of late calls into question

the decorum of this House for certain.

Mr. Speaker, I am going to speak today on the Government Services Committee.

I attended the Estimates for the Government Services and also for Finance and

Treasury Board, so I want to speak on those two departments. The Member for The

Straits looks like he wants to turn his back on me. I do not know why. I have a

lot of important things that he should be listening to.

MR. TAYLOR: I don't have to (inaudible).

MS THISTLE: You have to look at the speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I want to relate to this House, I was driving to my district, as I do every

weekend, and a week ago Friday, saw an unusual sight. A tandem dump truck, a

commercial vehicle, had stopped on the side of the road heading east - I was

going west, of course - and there was an entire body of a car, from the front

doors to the bonnet, out in the gravel on the side of the road, had flown off

the tandem dump truck going east. Can you imagine if that half of a car, a car

wreck, had gone through the window of a vehicle? There would be a tragedy on our

highway. That vehicle was not doing the proper thing. It did not have any

netting over the loose load that was in the top of that truck. Who knows, it was

probably over the weight that it should have been carrying. That driver was not

following the regulations, to have an entire body of a car wreck come off that

vehicle, that dump truck, and it was on the side of the gravel road, and the

driver was scurrying, with the hazard lights on the dump truck, trying to get

that body of the car wreck off the road. He was the only one in the dump truck,

trying to get that off the side of the road so it would not be impeding traffic.

Now that is another reason why our weigh scales should not be closed, as was

ordered recently by the Minister of Government Services. I understand, and I was

party, when I was questioning the Minister of Government Services in the

Estimates Committee about this and I was not satisfied with her answers that

night, and I do not think the general public are satisfied with them today.

I understand full well why her own colleague, the Member for Terra Nova, was

upset. Issues like closing down the weigh scales, are a life and safety issue,

and I think the members of the government have every right to speak out when

something comes up that they are not satisfied with. They are representing their

people. They are doing it well if they do speak out. I would compliment the

Member for Terra Nova for having the good sense to speak up and voice his

concerns about this measure taken by the Minister of Government Services. That

is one of the things that came up that evening but, I tell you, there has been a

lot come up since then.

I had a letter from a business person in my own District of Grand

Falls-Buchans, who uses Small Claims Court on a regular basis. Do you know that

if you want to register a small claims issue, affidavit, right now, that

increase has gone from $20 to $100? Does that concern the members of the general

public? It should, because there are lots of small businesses out there that use

small claims for trying to collect money. You take, for instance, someone who

might write a bad cheque or someone who might owe a grocery store some money.

There are all kinds of reasons why someone might want - that have not been paid

- to go and use that part of the court system which is Small Claims Court.

Now, if you are going to increase that fee from $20 to $100, that is

certainly going to take most of the profit that would have, or most of the

revenue, I suppose, that you would have gotten from that very claim itself. So,

by just going ahead and making such a huge increase in that fee alone, what does

that say to a government who is trying to be business friendly? I do not think

so. That is not business friendly; that is a deterrent to business.

I had a young person give me a call, too, about motorcycle licences. They

have gone up from $50 to $75 to licence a motorcycle. Now, most of those people

licencing a motorcycle are probably first-time drivers, age sixteen, young

people who are just going to drive a motorcycle for the first time. Who is going

to pay for that? Not the young person, but the parent. That is a massive

increase to put on families out there today.

Then you look at the other ones, the park fees. Everyone is talking about the

park fees. My colleague from Corner Brook just mentioned a few minutes ago, when

he was in Question Period, about fees that people were paying, park fees and

showers and so on in a park. Just imagine, if you are in to visit somebody -

just say that a family might invite some of their family members for the weekend

and someone unexpectedly drops by and they want to take a shower. They have to

go out now and make themselves known to the campground attendant and say: I am

not with the party registered, so here is $5. I have my cake of soap in my hand

and now I want to get a shower.

That is a bit ridiculous, isn't it? Is this government promoting gravel pit

camping? That is what I would like to know. Is this government promoting gravel

pit camping? Because our former Administration actually abandoned, did away

with, gravel pit camping because it was not sanitary. We had environmental

problems, traffic problems - you name it - from gravel pit camping. It was not a

proper thing to do, and at that time it was an encouragement for people to use

our provincial parks. By increasing those fees, and everything that goes with

it, it is certainly not an encouragement to use our parks. I wonder sometimes,

was this government really thinking seriously about the repercussions of

increasing those fees?

A matter has come to my attention over the weekend, and it is very

disconcerting to me and anyone who is from Central Newfoundland. I know the

Department of Natural Resources and Tourism do look after trying to promote

outdoor hunting, our wildlife package and so on, and DFO has the responsibility

of our inland waters, but it has come to my attention over the weekend that DFO

are now going to be reducing enforcement on the Exploits River, and I am sure

every river in our Province. Anyone who is familiar with the Exploits River, it

is one of the best salmon fishing rivers in all of North America. I know that

enforcement was handed out to the private sector and DFO now are going to reduce

eight enforcement officers on the Exploits River from Red Indian Lake to Peters

River in Botwood, from eight officers down to four.

When you look at that matter, there have been millions and millions and

millions of dollars spent at salmonid enhancement through ERMA in Grand

Falls-Windsor at the fishway. It is treasure. People who see it for the first

time are in awe when they see what they have been able to do to get salmon to

come back to the Exploits River - and to see now how this is going to be

downgraded, that they are going to go from eight enforcement officers to four.

One of those officers is a supervisor and the other three are regular staff. I

have been informed that there will be no overtime paid out to enforcement

officers this summer. What a shame.

Here we are, in Grand Falls-Windsor, next year, celebrating 100 years of the

community of Grand Falls-Windsor, where we revolutionized, I guess, the

industrial movement, had our first paper mill in the Province in 1905, and our

Exploits River has been touted all over the world as one of the best salmon

fishing rivers in all of North America, and DFO are going to now reduce

enforcement from eight to four officers. Even though it is not a provincial

issue directly, it is indirectly, and I want to encourage this government to

look into this matter and press upon DFO that there should be money set aside

for enforcement. It is such a valuable resource, the fish, the salmon in our

inland waters, I want to encourage this government to get some action on the go.

We saw our own Premier stand here today and talk about his action with 5 Wing

Goose Bay. Now, so far it has been inaction, because even though the matter is

connected through the federal government, he did not have the foresight to take

a federal government representative with him when he travelled to Europe to talk

about 5 Wing Goose Bay. Is he satisfied to let our inland resources, our salmon

fishing, go the same way, or is he going to take action and put that on his

agenda, to talk to the federal government about it? I certainly hope he does.

It is clear to see that there are rumblings within the Progressive

Conservative caucus. We saw, today, the Member for St. Barbe stand on his feet

and he had a petition from residents in his own district who are very concerned

about the closure of rural clinics on the Northern Peninsula. He listed three

communities. They were Parsons Pond, Cow Head and Daniel's Harbour. I know

those communities, I have been up there several times. It is natural that people

in those communities would be concerned. They are concerned. Most of them are

senior population, many of them don't have access to a vehicle, a lot of them

are not feeling well all the time, and if they have to have these community

clinics now close and travel to a bigger centre, that is going to be reason for

them to leave their own communities. Another nail in the coffin of rural

Newfoundland; that is all I can say.

MR. DENINE: Is that all you have to say?

MS THISTLE: That is not all I can say, I say to the Member for Mount

Pearl. I have plenty to say about other things, and I will use that time. No

matter how much time I had to speak, there wouldn't be enough time to talk

about this Budget and the pain that it has inflicted on people.

MR. REID: That is the fellow who said he was delighted to legislate the

workers back to work. He said he was delighted (inaudible).

MS THISTLE: In fact, he is the same member who was delighted to stand and

speak to the back-to-work legislation. The back-to-work legislation is one of

the things that this government promised. There have been several that they have

promised, and every one of them are broken promises. No layoffs! Remember that

one? No massive layoffs!

Also, under Government Services, there was the Department of Finance and

Treasury Board, and under Treasury Board is the Public Service Commission. It

was during that evening, when I questioned the Minister of Finance and President

of Treasury Board, that I discovered that the glossy ads that were in The

Telegram for hiring executive personnel for the new Department of Business,

and particularly the deputy minister and the information officer. That was done

through the Public Service Commission. So, when you want to do something like

that you give it to the Public Service Commission so it will be sort of

arms-length away from the Premier's Office. But we knew what was going on. I

found out that morning when I questioned the Public Service Commission. I found

out that there was a private consulting firm hired to go out on a national chase

to hire a deputy minister and key executive people for that new Department of

Business. Can you imagine? This private consulting company was being paid $200

per hour. That was to place the ads, look over the resumes, do the interviews,

make the recommendations to the Premier and then go through and monitor their

progress during their probationary period and so on.

Do you know something? There was an alarming fact that came out by the

Minister of Finance last week. He stood on this feet last Thursday here in this

House and was pleased to stand and remind all the people in Newfoundland and

Labrador that Standard and Poor's rating service affirmed the Province's

credit rating at A-. Now, what does that tell me? That tells the Province a lot

of things, that we were not on the brink of bankruptcy as he reported. Not at

all. In fact, Moody' and Dominion bond services gave us the same good rating

for the past three years, the first time since Confederation, and it happened

under a Liberal Administration. So, we were not in the terrible shape that the

Minister of Finance reported earlier last fall. Not at all. He did that so he

could go on with his agenda to cut the jobs and bring in the bad medicine that

he has done. But one thing they did succeed in, because it was already in The

Telegram , and that was the report by Stats Canada that every province in

Canada had an increase in retail sales in the month of March, 2004, except -

which province do you think? It was Newfoundland and Labrador, the first time in

four years. We did not have an increase in retail sales. Do you know whose fault

that is? The Premier's fault. He poisoned the atmosphere January 5 and he has

been poisoning it everyday since.

On October 21 they were elected - I almost forget that. I want to forget that

date. Well, the first day of summer is coming upon us pretty soon and that is

June 21. This new government will be in office eight months at that particular

time. If there is anybody out there who can tell me one positive thing that this

government has done to enhance the life or the well-being of residents of this

Province in the past eight months, I would like for them to stand right up and

tell me, because they cannot do it. They have poisoned the economy. Stats Canada

confirmed it. They have done that. They are trying to poison the economy in

Grand Falls-Windsor that was leading in economic growth outside of St. John's.

MR. REID: They are trying to destroy it.

MS THISTLE: They are trying to destroy it, really. I do not know why more

government members are not standing up for their districts.

MR. REID: They are all afraid of him. (Inaudible) in Cabinet.

MS THISTLE: They are all afraid to stand up to the Premier and the

Cabinet but, I will tell you, your voters are out there watching you. If yo