Manitoba Hansard — 29 May 1995 (Sitting 5A, 36th Legislature, 1st Session)

36-1-5a

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session - Thirty-Sixth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Louise M. Dacquay Speaker Vol. XLV No. SA -1:30 p.m., Monday, May 29, 1995

� ASHTON, Steve BARRETI, Becky CERILLI, Marianne CHOMIAK, Dave CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. DACQUA Y, Louise, Hon. DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. DEWAR, Gregory DOER, Gary DOWNEY, James, Hon. DRIEDGER, Alben, Hon. DYCK, Peter ENNS, Harry, Hon. ERNST, Jim, Hon. EVANS, Clif EVANS, Leonard S. FILMON, Gary, Hon. FINDLAY, Glen, Hon. FRIESEN, Jean GAUDRY, Neil GILLESHAMMER, Harold, Hon. HEL WER, Edward HICKES, George JENNISSEN, Gerard KOWALSKI, Gary LAMOUREUX, Kevin LA THLIN, Oscar LAURENDEAU, Marcel MACKINTOSH, Gord MALOWA Y, Jim MARTINDALE, Doug McALPINE, Gerry McCRAE, James, Hon. McGIFFORD, Diane MciNTOSH, Linda, Hon.

MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. NEWMAN, David PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. PENNER, Jack PITURA, Frank PRAZNIK, Darren, Hon. RADCLIFFE, Mike REID, Daryl REIMER, Jack, Hon. RENDER, Shirley ROBINSON, Eric ROCAN, Denis SALE, Tim SANTOS, Conrad STEFANSON, Eric, Hon. STRUTHERS, Stan SVEINSON, Ben TOEWS, Vic, Hon. TWEED, Mervin VODREY, Rosemary, Hon. WOWCHUK, Rosann MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-sixth Legislature Members, Constituencies and Political Aff iliation Constituency Thompson Wellington Radisson Kildonan Ste.

Rose Seine River Roblin- Russell Selkirk Concordia Anhur- Virden Steinbach Pembina Lakeside Charleswood Interlake Brandon East Tuxedo Springfield Wolseley St. Boniface Minnedosa Gimli Point Douglas Flin Flon The Maples Inkster The Pas St. Norben St. Johns Elmwood Burrows Sturgeon Creek Brandon West Osborne Assiniboia St. James River East Riel Ponage Ia Prairie Emerson Morris Lac du Bonnet River Heights Transcona Niakwa St. Vital Rupertsland Gladstone Crescentwood Broadway Kirkfield Park Dauphin La Verendrye Rossmere Tunle Mountain Fon Garry Swan River :em N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P.

P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. Lib. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. Lib. Lib. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P.

159 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, May 29,1995 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 2-The Balanced Budget, Debt Repayment and Taxpayer Protection and Consequential Amendments Act Bon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Environment (Mr. Cumm ings), that leave be given to introduce Bill 2, The Balanced Budget, Debt Repayment and Taxpayer Protection and Consequential Amendments Act;

Loi sur l'equilibre budgetaire, le remboursement de la dette et la protection des contribuables et apportant des modifications correlatives, and that the same be now received and read a first time. His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor, having been advised of the contents of this bill, recommends it to the House, and I would like to table the Lieutenant Governor's message. Motion agreed to. Bill �The Education Administration Amendment Act Bon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): I move, seconded by the Minister of Justice (Mrs. Vodrey), that leave be given to introduce BillS, The Education Administration Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur !'administration scolaire, and that the same be now received and read a first time. Motion agreed to. Bill 6-The Public Schools Amendment Act Bon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Justice (Mrs. Vodrey), that leave be given to introduce Bill 6, The Public Schools Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les ecoles publiques, and that the same be now received and read a first time. Motion agreed to. *

(1335) Bill 7-The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act Bon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Urban Affairs): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Education and Training (Mrs. Mcintosh), that leave be given to introduce Bill 7, The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la Ville de Winnipeg, and that the same be now received and read a first time. Motion agreed to. Bill8-The Off-Road Vehicles Amendment Act Bon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Minister of Highways and Transportation (Mr. Findlay), I move, seconded by the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns), that leave be given to introduce Bill 8, The Off-Road Vehicles Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les vehicules a caractere non routier, and that the same be now received and read a first time. Motion agreed to. Bill 9-The Wills Amendment Act Bon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson), that leave be given to introduce Bill 9, The Wills Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les testaments, and that the same be now received and read a first time.

I60 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 29, I995 Motion agreed to. BilllO-The Development Corporation Amendment Act Bon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach), that leave be given to introduce Bill I 0, The Development Corporation Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur Ia Societe de developpement, and that the same be now received and read a first time. Motion agreed to. Billll-The Trustee Amendment Act Bon. Rosemary V odrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson), that leave be given to introduce Bill II, The Trustee Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur les fiduciaires, and that the same be now received and read a first time. Motion agreed to. * (I340) Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questiqns, I would like to draw the attention of members to the gallery to my right, where we have seated today ninety-five Grade II students from Murdoch Mackay Collegiate. These students are under the direction of Mrs. Pat Adams, Mr. Joe Ptashynski, Mr. Bruce Rand and Mr. Eric Ott. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Transcona (Mr. Reid). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Winnipeg Jets Status of Provincial Shares Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister. During the election campaign, the Premier promised to limit his public contribution to the Jets to $I 0 million.

Madam Speaker, it has since been reported that the figure may be as high as $37 million for the capital, up to $9 million potential loss of revenue to the province in terms of potential tax rulings from the federal government, and what remains unclear to us is the status of the I8 percent shares that the provincial government owns in the Winnipeg Jets hockey team pursuant to the operating loss agreement signed by the Premier in 1991. Can the Premier advise us as to the status of the shares owned by the people of Manitoba through the Province of Manitoba? Bon.

Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, they will remain as equity to the credit of the taxpayers of Manitoba Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, given the fact the Premier promised to also cancel the operating loss agreement which created the shares that the Premier and the government of Manitoba now have, would this not constitute a further investment by the taxpayers of Manitoba in the Jets issue here in the Province of Manitoba on the operating side of the equation? Mr.

Filmon: No, Madam Speaker, because the only way that the taxpayers could have benefited from the shares would have been if the team had been sold to an outside party interest outside the province that would have seen the money come back to the credit of the taxpayers of Manitoba. Since we did not believe that this was in the best interests of the province, obviously we will leave the shares there as equity in the team. Mr.

Doer: Madam Speaker, the Premier could have also sold the shares to the new owners of the team, the MEC group, the Shenkarow group and the other groups that are allegedly or reportedly taking over the team. Would this not now constitute at least another $9- million public contribution to the Jets? Would this now mean that we have $37 million potentially invested in the capital, up to $9 million potentially invested in a

May29, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 161 revenue loss through a tax proposal that is before the federal government and now another $9 million in terms of the equity that we now hold in the ownership of 18 percent shares, one of the largest percentage shares of any owner in a privately owned hockey team? Mr. Filmon: No, Madam Speaker, you cannot have it twice.

Firstly, the Leader of the Opposition has already talked about the fact that we absorbed some $9 million of losses in the team for which we received, I might say, some $17 million of direct revenue to the taxpayer for that $9 million in losses, and for that $9 million in losses, we have $9 million of share equity in the team, which remains there to the credit of the taxpayers of Manitoba, is not lost in any way. Seven Oaks Hospital Funding Reduction Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): I have a new question, Madam Speaker.

One hopes that the Premier will be as generous with health and education as he seems to be on the changing relationship with the Winnipeg Jets. My question to the Premier is, the government announced the pre-election pause on health care cuts and spending reductions to health care facilities. Since the election, we have learned that at Seven Oaks Hospital, a reduction of$600,000 from previous pauses and now a further $1.6-million reduction is being implemented at the hospital.

I would like to ask the Premier, what will be the impact of a somewhat close to 5 percent reduction in investment at Seven Oaks Hospital? *

(1345) Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): I just want to say, in response to the

preamble of the Leader of the Opposition, that we will continue to be generous to health care, as we have been. We are the province in Canada that spends the highest proportion of its budget on health care, almost 34 percent of the budget, Madam Speaker. That is the highest proportion of any province in Canada. Even on a per capita basis, it is the third highest of all the provinces in Canada. So, Madam Speaker, we will continue to treat health care more generously than almost any province in Canada. Mr. Doer: The Premier never answered the question.

The $9 million in equity in the privately owned hockey team is equal to the health care cuts or hospital cuts of $8 million in this year's budget-money one way, equity one way and cuts another way. I would like to ask the Premier, what is the impact of the 5 percent reduction at Seven Oaks Hospital on patient care and on the standards of care for the people in Manitoba, a cut that was accelerated after the election campaign by the Conservative government. Mr. Filmon: Again, Madam Speaker-and, of course, it is the reason why he had no credibility during the election campaign.

The Leader of the Opposition does, in fact, give false information. The cuts were not to hospitals, were not to personal care homes. They were a reduction to the MMA agreement. They were a reduction to the fees given to the MMA. They were not cuts to hospitals, Madam Speaker. Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, my question to the Premier (Mr.

Filmon) is, what are the priorities of this government to cut 5 percent out of Seven Oaks Hospital after the election campaign and multiply by three, four and five times the investment in the Winnipeg Jets issue after the election, both contrary to the word of the Premier during the election campaign. Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, no matter how the Leader of the Opposition wants to obfuscate this matter, the Minister of Finance (Mr.

Stefanson) met with all of the hospital people last fall to let them know that the amount for hospitals, personal care homes and community health centres would be the same this year as it was last year at $1. 2 billion. That is a very significant contribution to health care. As the Premier has pointed out, we are second to none in this country when it comes to the share of the budget being spent on health care.

162 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May29, 1995 Medical Services Council Information Release Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, the minister might add that when the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) met with hospital officials, they said a 2 percent cut to budgets. It is in their own press release, and it is now being brought to bear after the election. My question to the Minister of Health is, we are back to the era of cutt ing. The minister's secret council is planning to deinsure a number of medical services, including general eye examinations.

Will the minister today do something that we asked him to do eight months ago and make the deliberations of that secret committee public, so the Manitoba public can know what services this government is planning to cut from medicare. Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, about a year ago, the Manitoba Medical Association and the government of Manitoba entered into an historic agreement, which brought about some level of consultation and working together that has not existed for 20 years in the Province of Manitoba.

The so-called council the honourable member refers to is the Medical Services Council. It has representation on it from the government, from the Manitoba Medical Association, from other parties, as well, including members of the public. That is a very open process, and no recommendations will be coming forward that have not been very carefully screened by that council and by myself. *

(1350) Eye Examinations De insurance Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, the pattern continues with no answers to the questions. My supplementary to the minister is, can the minister advise this House how much it will cost Manitobans who will be forced to pay out-of-pocket expenses for general eye examinations? How much will it cost Manitobans to pay for these services that the government is intending to deinsure? Hon.

James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the honourable member does not like the answers, because they give the lie to the misinformation that honourable members opposite have been putting across in this province for far too long. [interjection] Well, Madam Speaker, if I have said something that is inappropriate or offensive to honourable members- Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister of Health, I believe, was about to apologize in case his comment was misinterpreted or he said something that should not have been permitted on the record. Mr.

McCrae: Madam Speaker, I realize I used the word "lie" and I should not have done that. I am sorry for that, but you know, I think the people of Manitoba spoke very, very wisely when they passed judgment on the misinformation that formed part of the recent election campaign. The numbers are there for honourable members and everybody else to see. Manitoba has a very, very significant contribution to make and has been making to health care in our province. Mr.

Chomiak: Madam Speaker, will the minister do something this government has refused to do all throughout its tenure in health care, and that is bring these decisions about deinsurance and other cuts, like the 5 percent cut to Seven Oaks Hospital this year, before members of this Chamber and the public, so they can deliberate prior to the government making its cuts? Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, if that argument holds true, then why were honourable members opposite not using that when they were cutting and cutting in the days when they had an opportunity-the Pharmacare program, for example?

Why did they not do that then? It is precisely because of the need for input from the various stakeholders and interested parties that the

May 29, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 163 Manitoba Medical Services Council was set up. It does contain representation from the various groups I mentioned, like the College of Physicians, like the MMA, the government, representatives from the Manitoba Centre for Health Policy and Evaluation, whom honourable members opposite tell us are beyond reproach. That is the kind of representation we have in decision making on how to run the medical services component of the budget of Manitoba. The Pas Health Complex Kidney Dialysis Mr.

Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Madam Speaker, as members of the House may be aware, there has been an international conference, that is going to be concluding today at the Convention Centre, talking about the indigenous peoples and the link with diabetes. My questions are also for the Minister of Health. Nearly two years ago, we asked this government whether it was prepared to offer dialysis treatment at The Pas Hospital.

I would like to ask the minister, does this government now have a date at which such services could be made available at The Pas, instead of forcing people to drive to Flin Flon and even farther for treatment? Bon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): I will be happy to provide the detail of that question and the answer for the honourable member in due course, Madam Speaker, but, certainly, over the last few years, we have seen, indeed, an increase in the need for dialysis and an increase in the supply of dialysis services in Manitoba. We will continue to monitor that situation, Madam Speaker. *

(1355) Health of Manitoba's Children Report Recommendations Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Madam Speaker, to the same minister, given that rickets is preventable, as The Health of Manitoba's Children Report noted with their recommendations, I would like to ask the Minister about those recommendations in that report, when they will be acted on to prevent rickets, as has been experienced in the Island Lake communities of Red Sucker Lake, St. Theresa Point, Garden Hill and W asagamack in northern Manitoba. Bon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): The child health strategy that came forward in the report by Dr.

Postl and his committee formed the basis for the election campaigns of, I think, all three political parties in this House, and I look forward to working with the honourable member and his colleagues in the future as we put some action around the proposals within that package of proposals. Food Co-operatives Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Madam Speaker, it has been said that poverty and health are directly linked- Madam Speaker: Order, please. Pose your question now, please. Mr.

Robinson: The question I would like to ask is, will this government assist in the growth of food co operatives in the North, as recommended in the report? Bon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, poverty and health are indeed directly linked. I am glad honourable members opposite recognize that now. We have recognized it for some time.

We would certainly be happy if our federal friends would recognize that, and instead of cutting back on nutrition programs and programs for new moms as the federal Liberals have done, I think it would be wise if they prioritize their spending as we have done here in the Province of Manitoba. Physician Resources Grandview/Gilbert Plains Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, my question is also for the Minister of Health.

164 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May29, 1995 Last Wednesday, my colleague the member for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen), asked a question in this House regarding doctor shortages in his constituency. Today, I stand before this House and ask similar questions on behalf of my own constituents. Like Leaf Rapids and Lynn Lake, the communities of Grandview and Gilbert Plains are also facing a doctor shortage crisis. Could the minister table an agreement he made with the communities of Grandview, Gilbert Plains and Roblin to pursue the recruitment of four to five permanent salaried physicians? Hon.

James McCrae (Minister of Health): I will take the honourable member's question under advisement. He should know that last Friday I met with representatives from the communities of LeafRapids, Lynn Lake and Gillam, as well, and discussed physician issues in general for rural, northern and remote Manitoba. There is general agreement about the necessity to address the problem, and that goes for communities like Grandview, Gilbert Plains and others in rural Manitoba, because even if they are not having a problem right now, they know that a problem, once it is upon us, is an acute problem.

It is not like losing a doctor from one of the larger communities in our province-a doctor in a small community can be a very, very serious problem. I think I made it clear to the people in my office on Friday that I recognize that, and along with all of our partners, including them, we are working to solve the immediate problems but also to build a long-term solution through the Physician Resource Committee. Mr.

Struthers: Can the minister indicate what financial assistance will be given to those communities for recruitment of these four to five doctors, given the recruitment of even one doctor can cost upwards of $70,000? Mr. McCrae: I will look at the traditional level of assistance for this type of activity and also look to see if there is an additional responsibility on the part of the government indicated by circumstances. We will review that as we are doing with the Leaf Rapids situation. Mr.

Struthers: What full-time support will be provided so that the one remaining physician stays and so that the health of the community is not threatened? Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, that is exactly the kind of question and issue that is being addressed by the community in concert with representatives from my department and the College of Physicians and Surgeons, as well. As to a precise response to a question like that today, I am not able to give that, but I expect that we will discover the answer to that as we continue to work together. *

(1400) Winnipeg Jets Estimated Losses Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, a key component of the Jets' new deal between MEC and the Spirit of Manitoba, the new Jets owners, is that there will be a private-sector fund to pay the losses of the hockey team over the estimated 20-year period of the lease or the agreement. The viability of the hockey team is very much a matter of concern for the viability of the $175-million public-sector investment in an arena; therefore, the level of team losses, Madam Speaker, is a very critical issue for this House.

Will the Minister of Finance tell the House, what are the estimated losses for 1995-96 and '96-97 for the Winnipeg Jets? Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, we continue to await the conclusion of the discussions that are taking place right now between the private sector here in Manitoba and the current owners of the Winnipeg Jets in terms of a realignment of ownership, the current owners possibly staying in for a minority interest.

May29, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 165 Obviously, part of those discussions are going to be the operations of the hockey club for the 1995-96 season and what the projections might well be in terms of the ultimate losses of the club, ways of controlling expenses to minimize that impact, and, obviously, a major part of this whole undertaking is the establishment of the endowment fund that has been contributed to very significantly to date by many, many Manitobans. Mr.

Sale: To the same minister, Madam Speaker, will the minister then confirm the estimate of the Provincial Auditor and MEC that the losses will likely exceed $12 million to $14 million in each of the next two years for a two-year total of at least $28 million in losses during the arena construction period? Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, those are numbers that are in the range of what projections were several months ago.

As I have indicated, if this whole new arrangement is, in fact, put in place, and we are hoping to hear definitive answers on that within the next few days, a major part of the whole reorganization will be to find ways to control expenses, to reduce losses, but, ultimately, as has been indicated by the Premier (Mr.

Filmon) and many others, the whole objective is that the private sector takes over the operations of the hockey club, they take over the exposure to any potential losses, and the mechanism that is being put in place is this establishment of an endowment fund to cover those losses for the next many years. Part of governments remaining and continuing to hold equity in any future operation is on the basis that governments are in no way exposed to any contributions to any losses, Madam Speaker. Winnipeg Arena Information Release Mr.

Tim Sale (Crescentwood): I thank the minister for beginning to shed some light- Madam Speaker: Order, please. Please pose your question now. Mr. Sale: Will the minister then commit to tabling with this House the cash flow projections upon which have been based the development of the $60-million endowment fund to enable the House to see for itself that the fund is sufficient to ensure the long-term stability of the team in Winnipeg prior to a shovel being put in the ground for an arena? Hon.

Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, as has been indicated consistently, the whole objective of the reorganization is to make sure that the team can remain here in Manitoba for many years and remain viable, and that is the whole purpose behind the establishment of the endowment fund. I know the NDP, through their comments and questions, oppose building an entertainment complex here in Manitoba They oppose trying to keep the Jets here in Winnipeg.

We believe it is in the best interests of Manitoba, the economy in Manitoba, and many other aspects of Manitoba to do the utmost to keep them here, Madam Speaker, and as we have indicated on many occasions, in concert with the private-sector group that is now hopefully taking over control of the Winnipeg Jets Hockey Club, all information that can be made available will be made available, not only here in this House but to the public of Manitoba Education System Funding Ms.

Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, this government's support for the business known as the Winnipeg Jets has rapidly escalated since the election, at a time when the same government claims there is no more money for Manitoba schools. I want to ask the Minister of Education, when the arena and Jets final package was being considered by her colleagues, did she make the case for an alternative investment priority of the restoring of the $35 million of cuts to Manitoba schools over the last three years? Hon.

Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, the member knows full well that in terms of priorities for this government, the largest percentage of our budget goes towards three main areas-health, education and family services.

166 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 29, 1995 The member also knows that over the course of our tenn of government, funding to schools has been good, has been adequate for the needs faced by the schools. The member also is aware of the number of divisions around the province that have been able to acquire and maintain surpluses in the school divisions. The member is aware that there are opportunities that divisions have had. Some took advantage of those opportunities, some did not, for Bill 22 days.

The member is also aware that bargaining units have the opportunity to control some of the rising costs of divisions by the way in which they settle their negotiations at the table. So, Madam Speaker, I do not accept the premise inherent in the member's statement that funding for education in Manitoba has somehow been inadequate. Impact of StafTmg Reduction Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, I am going to enjoy sending that response to every- Madam Speaker: Order, please. Ms.

Friesen: Will the minister table the infonnation she must, as minister, have collected on the impact on class size and program availability of the loss of over 270 teachers across the province in this coming year? Bon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, the member consistently does not wish to acknowledge that school divisions and unions with whom �e school divisions bargain have opportunities at the bargaining table to detennine whether or not teachers are laid off, staff sizes [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order, please. Mrs.

Mcintosh: The number of staff any given division is able to employ is dependent upon the amount of wages that division has to pay that staff. We know that 83 percent of school division budgets goes towards wages. We know that in some divisions, that percentage is much higher than 83 percent, and the divisions have done an admirable job containing their operating costs.

The one cost they are having difficulty controlling is the wage cost, and there are two parties at the bargaining table, Madam Speaker, that have the opportunity to detennine what that cost shall be and the subsequent size of the staff complement in the division. Ms. Friesen: Can the minister tell us what the impact of the loss of 270 teachers, in some divisions 10 percent of the teachers, will be on the implementation of the new curr iculums, the new timetables and the new examinations in the so-called refonn plan of this government? Mrs.

Mcintosh: I, first of all, would like to clarify that it is not a so-called refonn. It is a refonn. It is a refonn that is going on not just in Manitoba but in other provinces across Canada, in other countries across the western hemisphere. The use of adjectives and descriptive phrases before good words colour the good words. The member knows it. The member is doing it consciously, and I just want the record to show that most people are not taken in by those kinds of colourful adjectives. I would like to repeat again, Madam Speaker, that there are two ways in which staff positions can be saved.

One is to overspend and the other is to bargain in such a way that wage increases do not interfere with the division's ability to have a certain number of staff in its complement. School Boundaries Commission Implementation Timetable Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Education. As fall quickly approaches, there is a great deal of concern with respect to the school divisions and the alignments of the school divisions. The public has a right to know, in the sense that there are many children, what school divisions are going to be coming about in tenns of changes.

There are literally hundreds of trustees and potential candidates who are out there who

May 29, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 167 are making their decision today on whether or not they September as to its final developed proposals based are going to be running, and they need to know what · upon reaction to their current recommendations. sort of boundaries. My question to the minister is, will the minister make a firm commitment to establishing a timetable for boundary changes? *

(1410) Hon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, in response to the member's question, it has already been indicated that we now have the Boundaries Review Commission requesting the receiving of written submissions to comment on the proposals and the recommendations as developed by the commission. They will be reporting back to us in September. The regular school board elections will take place in October, as they do every three years, and those three years during which this particular school term will extend will be transition years.

Any decisions made regarding boundaries will be announced during that period, and during that period, we would expect that the trustees who were elected in October would be part of the process of transition, of any mergers that may be decided upon, and any trustees running should see that as a possibility when they decide to make their decision to run. Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, just for confirmation, I understand that the school trustees- Madam Speaker: Order, please. Would the honourable member please pose a supplementary question now. Mr.

Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, can the minister then confirm that this fall election will be on the old boundaries and indicate what options she is also considering for the subsequent elections? Mrs. Mcintosh: Madam Speaker, I repeat for the member's information and clarification that we will be hearing from the commission at the beginning of The October elections that will take place for school boards across the province will take place as they normally do.

The next three years, the normal school board term will be a transition period during which school divisions will prepare themselves for any amalgamation if it occurs. There may be some divisions where there is no amalgamation. We have not made our decisions yet. Those three years will be a transition period during which school divisions will prepare for an orderly blending or merging of students and staff, et cetera. Tax Rebates Mr.

Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, the other indication of changes, that of rebates-and I would ask the Minister of Urban Affairs whether or not his intentio� are to have the rebates process in place, the legislation that the City of Winnipeg and others are looking for? Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Urban Affairs): Madam Speaker, I believe what the member for Inkster is ref erring to is the legislation that was just introduced regarding the rebates for the councillors and the setting up of a system within the parameters of the bill that was just introduced. Status ofWomen Government Initiatives Ms.

Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the Minister responsible for the Status of Women. This governm ent's document entitled Plan Manitoba, A Vision for the Future and the Speeches from the Throne, December 1994 and May 1995, include virtually no plans, policies or visions which promote the status of women. I cite, for example, family violence, Family Violence Court and women in second-stage housing. These are ignored. I am encouraged, however, in the knowledge that the minister met in Ottawa last week with her provincial

168 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May29, 1995 and federal counterparts and trust that she returned with renewed vision and some ideas. My first question for the minister is, will the minister table with the House her presentation to last week's meeting in Ottawa? Bon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister responsible for the Status ofWomen): Madam Speaker, I was very pleased to represent our province at a meeting of Ministers responsible for the Status of Women last week. There were a number of issues which were discussed. Among those at the top of the agenda were economic security.

One of the major issues to be determined in the area of economic security for women is the federal Minister of Human Resources' plan. We have yet to see what detail will be put forward on behalf of Canadian people to deal with economic security. In the area of violence against women, of course, there was a renewed emphasis across Canada for provinces to look at initiatives to deal with violence against women.

I was very pleased to again put forward information regarding Manitoba's Domestic Violence Court and also put forward to my federal counterparts that I will be tabling in this House legislation in the area of maintenance enforcement. However, again, a great deal rests with the federal government of this country to deal with the child support guidelines. Ms. McGitTord: Will the minister detail for this House the ideas that she ha'i brought with her from Ottawa? Mrs.

Vodrey: Madam Speaker, I will be pleased to see that the member receives a copy of the communique in which all areas that were agreed upon between Ministers responsible for the Status of Women were outlined. I was very pleased, just as an example, to tell the member to take forward the initiatives that have been put forward by our Minister of Family Services (Mrs.

Mitchelson) in the area of Taking Charge!, in the area of initiatives dealing with single-parent families and our position and questions that we had concerning the plan that the federal minister of human resources will put forward, again initiatives relating to family violence. I was pleased to draw that to the attention of my counterparts. Madam Speaker, I was also very pleased to receive agreement from my counterparts, ministers for the Status of Women, that we would, by agreement, look at any barriers between provinces for the collection of maintenance enforcement payments.

That was, I believe, a really important step taken at that meeting. I was pleased to do that on behalf of the Province of Manitoba, the people of Manitoba. Ms. McGitTord: Can the minister outline for this House her current and future plans for promoting the status ofManitoba women? Mrs. Vodrey: This government has made major strides in the promotion of women and the position of women in the seven years that we have been in government, and we look forward to up to five more years in which we can continue to do that.

Strides have been made and certainly we will be looking at this, I am sure, in Estimates in terms of the senior positions women hold within the civil service, strides that have been made in the area of employment and also economic equity in the area of training. I am very pleased to remind the member that it was this government which introduced the Training for Tomorrow Scholarship. The Training for Tomorrow Scholarship deals very specifically with economic security of women, encouraging women to move into the nontraditional professions by way of a scholarship.

Madam Speaker, there are a number of initiatives which this government "has implemented and will continue to implement, and I will be more than pleased to discuss those during the time of Estimates. ACCESS Programs Funding Restoration Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Education.

May 29, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 169 Manitobans, particularly northerners, hope this minister will be open-minded and generous about proven success stories such as the ACCESS program. Is she willing to restore funding of ACCESS and BUNTEP to previous levels? Bon.

Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): As the member realizes, in terms of post secondary education, we have more people now currently taking advantage of the ACCESS program than did before, so, clearly, the number of people being able to take advantage of that particular program has not been diluted in any way, given the increase in sign up. BUNTEP Program Wage Deductions Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): My supplementary question is, will the minister review the policy of deducting 80 percent of BUNTEP students' part-time wages, since many of these students cannot make ends meet on loans alone.

Bon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): As I indicated, we have an increased enrollment, we have an increased number of students accessing the ACCESS program, and all indications are that the success of that program in terms of providing opportunities for students still remains, in fact, is enhanced with the increased take-up.

I indicate in terms of equity and fairness that taking some responsibility, if you have the means, if the money is there in your own personal income, to repay that money to the people of Manitoba who provide it is something that other people in Manitoba have to do and that we are now saying is a fair and equitable way to proceed. *

(1420) BUNTEP Program Government Initiatives Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): My final supplementary question is this. What specifically is this minister prepared to do to keep ACCESS programs such as BUNTEP aff ordable for the disadvantaged and, specifically, the most disadvantaged students in this province? Bon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, ACCESS students are not denied any educational opportunities. More people are taking advantage or taking up to it.

Eight hundred of the most needy students are exempt from paying student loans, so what we are saying is those who are in need will still have those needs met. Those who have an ability to repay, we will be asking to repay, as other students do in this province. School Boundaries Commission Transcona-Springfield School Division Mr.

Daryl Reid (Transcona): With the release of the final report and recommendations of the school division's Boundaries Review Commission, taxpayers of the Transcona-Springfield School Division No. 12 learned that their school taxes will rise from between $80 to $100 per home as a result of the recommendations. Can the Minister of Education explain how taxpayers of the Transcona-Springfield School Division are going to have their taxes reduced, considering the report's recommendations? Bon.

Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, the member knows from my announcement that those questions are ones that the government is taking under further review. I should emphasize these are recommendations. They are not decisions of government. They are recommendations being made to government, and those recommendations we are now sending back to people, such as those who sit on the Transcona-Springfield board for their commentary.

We have also said in terms of the division of assets and liabilities that we will be taking a careful look to ensure equity, to ensure that no one division is unduly penalized or rewarded but that fairness exists before any decisions are made in that regard.

170 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 29, 1995 Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired. NONPOLITICAL STATEMENTS Children's Hospital Research Foundation Mr. Gerry McAlpine (Sturgeon Creek): Madam Speaker, do I have leave for a nonpolitical statement? Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for Sturgeon Creek have leave for a nonpolitical statement? [agreed] Mr. McAlpine: Madam Speaker, I rise today to offer my congratulations to the Children's Hospital Research Foundation for hosting probably one of the most successful Teddy Bears' Picnics in history.

I would like to also recognize the volunteers, the people who really made this possible and, actually, the weather co-operated with the organizers. I would like to congratulate the Research Foundation, Colin Ferguson and his board of the Teddy Bears' Picnic in hosting the very, very successful campaign and picnic. Also, Madam Speaker, this morning at Children's Hospital, I had the pleasure of participating in another leg of the Research Foundation raising money for children. I was able to participate on behalf of the Premier (Mr.

Filmon) and the government of Manitoba to start this memorable race off this morning and participate by running 14 kilometres from Children's Hospital to the Perimeter Highway.

I think it is fitting that we, as members of the government and sit in this Chamber, have from time to time an opportunity to participate, but this was one I felt was one of emotion because if it were not for the research of the Children's Hospital, two grandchildren that my wife and I enjoy, 25 months ago born to my son and daughter-in-law, Melanie and Nicole, would not be here if it were not for the research that was done at this Children's Hospital.

Madam Speaker, I say that with a great deal of emotion because these two young girl twins were born something like three months premature and their hearts would stop 25 and 30 times a day and as a result of the research that is done at this facility, I really want to thank them and congratulate them and wish them continued success in all their endeavours. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Does the honourable Leader of the official opposition have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed] Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, and to members of the Chamber for granting leave.

I also want to pay tribute to the thousands and thousands of volunteers who are working throughout the events of the Children's Hospital Research Foundation. I understand the weekend was another very successful occasion. Many thousands of young people attended and volunteered their activities and were involved in the activities of the research foundation. It is truly a remarkable public institution that we have here in our community, the Children's Hospital. It is a great partnership between the professional staff, the medical staff and the community.

I was involved in an event just a couple of weeks ago for the Research Foundation of the Children's Hospital, and that was the fundraising dinner for the book market that the Children's Hospital Research Foundation puts on on an annual basis. I have some very, very intimate knowledge of that book market. My mother used to be the volunteer chair of that book market. It used to be a wonderful opportunity to carry books around. I was her labourer for that book market.

I know carrying those books around, it was a wonderful recycling opportunity both of the intellectual material in those wonderful books and a great fundraising activity that I believe has gone from approximately $40,000 a year to $240,000 a year through the work of volunteers and people. I understand next week that the telethon is scheduled, and I hope again that is very successful. I am sure that

May 29, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 171 all of us will join in, in working as part of our community, in this very, very successful activity. The Children's Hospital is very important for the kids of Manitoba. It is very important for residents of northwestern Ontario, even as far away as Saskatchewan. We have excellent staff, as I say, there at the hospital. We are only too happy to join in paying tribute to the community for their great investment in this wonderful community asset that we all own, called the Children's Hospital Research Foundation. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for The Maples have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed] Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples): I would like to join in with the celebration of the fundraising effort for the Children's Hospital. This is a cause that is very near and dear to my heart. I spent almost a year in the Children's Hospital when I was six years old with rheumatic fever, and if not for the advances in medical science at that point, I would not be alive today. I had the opportunity to attend the Winnipeg Police Association charitable ball this weekend.

The funds from that charitable ball will also be given to the Children's Hospital Research Foundation, as it has over a number of years. I learned at that ball that the Winnipeg Police Association has donated almost $100, 000 to the Children's Hospital Research Foundation. Again, Manitobans have shown they have got a strong community spirit, and I applaud the efforts of all the volunteers and the efforts of the Children's Hospital Research Foundation. Thank you.

ORDERS OF THE DAY THRONE SPEECH DEBATE (Fifth Day of Debate) Madam Speaker: To resume adjourned debate on the proposed motion of the honourable member for Riel (Mr. Newman) for an address to His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor in answer to his speech at the openirig of the session and on the proposed motion of the honourable Leader of the official opposition in amendment thereto and the proposed motion of the honourable member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) in further amendment thereto, standing in the name of the honourable member for Radisson (Ms. Cerilli), who has 18 minutes remaining. *

(1430) Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Madam Speaker, I just want to make a few concluding remarks and hand over debate to two of my new colleagues joining the New Democrat caucus. I am anxious to give them as much time as possible to conduct their debate today. I had spent some time on Friday talking about the misplaced priorities of this government.

With election issues focused on funding infrastructure programs like the arena for a professional hockey team-it is interesting that a group in the community has dubbed Premier Film on the winner of the Stanley Cup for child poverty-! want to talk a little bit about the other events in the province over the weekend that highlighted a few other priorities that should be deserving of attention of governments that have been negligent, and that particularly is in the North.

I find it quite obscene that we have a situation in the North where the poverty there is causing illnesses like rickets and an increase in diabetes. When we have governments that are ignoring the situation and trying to pass off the situation-in the Speech from the Throne when the government basically tried to dismiss child poverty and poverty in our province as a federal responsibility, I have to say I find that reprehensible and quite obscene.

In the North we have, I think, the worst examples of the economics of exploitation that have been practised throughout this province's history, about the kind of economics that this government continues to practice. I also find it similarly a concern when we have, over the last week, pleas for facilities for young people in Winnipeg, with the North Y and re�ently a drop-in centre in West Kildonan being denied public funds. We have over $100 million being given to professional

17 2 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 29, 1995 hockey players for their rink, and yet we are threatened with losing facilities for the children and youth in our city, in our province. I just want to say that youth and children are not money-makers. Young people and children deserve to have education and health care that is going to meet their needs and also the provision of recreational activities that are going to meet their needs so they can grow up in a caring environment.

We must look at this not even as an investment, even though that is what it is, but just look at it as what we have to do so that children can grow up to be healthy, contributing, intelligent adults. We have seen an increase in crime under this government, particularly youth crime. We have seen an increase in poverty among young people. That has to be directly attributed to the cuts in education and health care and again to the practising of the kind of economics that increases the gap between the haves and the have-nots.

I know that I have raised this question, as many other members on this side of the House have, in trying to demonstrate the link between poverty and health care cuts and education cuts. We know that the majority of young people who drop out of school, particularly high school, come from low-income families. I think that we have to take a serious look at that. It is reprehensible to me that this government cannot come up with a strategy for what this government could do on child poverty.

I am going to be looking forward to spending some time on demonstrating that there are a lot of things this government could do to have more equity in our province and to deal with the situation for far too many families in the difficulty they have for providing for their children. I think this government has gotten away with a lot, ignoring problems. It was a disappointment to me that there was a real disregard for sustainability. When I talk about the kind of economics of exploitation that this government practises, yet they have put out a lot of material on sustainability.

I think the challenge for us as legislators, as elected officials, is to try and change the practices of government, and if we truly believe in sustainability we will see that we have to start talking about the . connections between health, environment, economics and justice. I have talked about that a number of times in this House, but it is quite a concern to me that there has been really no effort to change the approach, and we did not hear much about the environment during this election.

This past week and over the long weekend last weekend I was looking for a book to take with me on a canoe trip, and I pulled this small book that would fit in my pocket from my bookshelf. It is Brave New World written by Aldous Huxley. In the introduction there is a passage that I am going to read because I found that it was appropriate coming from the election and the kind of propaganda that we saw following the election particularly dealing with the arena and the Jets issue.

The cohorts that I was with on the canoe trip, we had a chuckle in reading this and applying it to our time and facing the world that we do right now. Part of the introduction says the greatest of triumphs of propaganda have been accomplished not by doing something but by refraining from doing. Great is the truth, but still greater from a practical point of view is silence about the truth.

By simply not mentioning certain subjects, by lowering an iron curtain between the masses and such facts or arguments as the local political bosses regard as undesirable, totalitarian propagandists have influenced opinion much more ef fectively than they could have done by the most eloquent denunciations and the most compelling of logical rebuttals, to end quote. Then it goes on to talk about people having to love their servitude.

I want to close my comments on the Speech from the Throne by committing once again to speaking the truth in this House about the unfairness and the inequities and the disregard for people of disadvantaged backgrounds, to speak the truth about the destruction of the economic policies practised by this government in the environment. I also received in the mail today a copy of an

article from the Ottawa Citizen which says that Canada is

May 29, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 173 second only to France in losing quality of air and water, that we have had a 28.1 percent decline in resources and in the state of the environment. I also want to conclude by taking the opportunity to encourage the House to engage in intelligent debate. We can have passionate debate about the differences in our ideas, but I hope that we will not resort to belittling people and personal attacks. I think that we have to take the high road, and we have to endeavour to not attack people even based on their ideas, that we all have the right to present our ideas here.

It is fine to debate our ideas but to not belittle each other or attack each other based on those beliefs in a personal nature. So I encourage the members opposite to take issue with what I may say on the substance. I encourage them to do that, but I hope that we will elevate the level of debate in this Chamber from what it has been in the past and that we will actually debate ideas. I hope to bring some new and innovative ideas on a more sustainable approach to government and economic policy, and I would encourage members opposite to do the same. With those remarks, I conclude my debate. Mr.

Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, I want to begin my first speech in this House by making several congratulations and several thank-yous. I want to begin by congratulating all the MLAs, all 57 of us, for the hard work that we put into representing our people back home in our constituencies and the hard work that we put into the pre-election and the election campaigns. I think it is just great that 57 of us can get together every day in the House, discuss the issues of the day and then go back home and report to our people back there the progress that we have made.

Madam Speaker, I want to congratulate you on your position as the new Speaker of the Legislature. I look forward to working with you and have appreciated your fairness in handling the situations that have arisen so far and wish you success in your endeavour. I want to recognize and to congratulate the members of the cabinet. You have a heavy responsibility on your shoulders. You have many of the acts and the proposals that we will come up with on this side to consider, and I hope that you very fairly consider what we have to say as well from this side of the House. *

(1440) I want to acknowledge and to congratulate the Pages who are working with us in the Legislature. I had a friend in university who worked as a Page in the House of Commons in Ottawa and she cherished the time that she spent as a Page. She quite often told me she learned a lot about our parliamentary procedures and the working of government and years later thought back and remembered fondly the times that she spent in the House of Commons. I hope that the Pages here today have the same kind of good experience as my friend had.

I want to also acknowledge the two fm e gentlemen who ran against me in the election campaign of 1995, Mr. Sarin and Mr. Ryz. Both worked very hard and represented their respective parties admirably, and I want to acknowledge their work in the campaign and wish them every success in their other careers. Finally, I want to congratulate the class of 1995, all 11 of us, that took

part in the orientation sessions and have got their feet wet in the House. I am very impressed with what I have seen so far of the class of '95, and I am hoping that at least five of us make it through to the class of 1999. You decide for yourself which five I was talking about. I want to thank those volunteers who worked in my campaign team in the Dauphin election. I want to commend them on their hard work. I want to thank them for not panicking when 18 gazillion blue and red signs appeared on election night. I want to thank them for not panicking when there were more papers distributed by the opposition.

Enough paper was used to eclipse the allowable cut of Louisiana-Pacific in the amount of trees that were killed. I want to thank my campaign team for not panicking at those times. I want to thank them for keeping me from panicking when things were getting wild and crazy in the campaign. I want to thank the

174 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May29, 1995 voters for having the wisdom to send me to the Legislature as opposed to someone else. I want to express my thank you and my appreciation to my fellow members in the NDP caucus for their help in keeping me on the stra ight and narrow and making sure I am in the right place at the right time and not doing things a little too far out of the ordinary.

I also want to recognize, congratulate and thank the fonner member for Dauphin, John Plohman, for his hard work, for all the good that he has done for Dauphin and for the province of Manitoba when he was a cabinet minister. I am not going to try to pretend to fill John Plohman's shoes, especially in his performance within the bounds of the Chamber. I have my own style and John has his. I just want to make sure that I have recognized Mr. Plohman's contributions to the House and to the people of Manitoba. (Mr.

Marcel Laurendeau, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair) I also want to thank Binx and the legislative staff for an excellent orientation session, especially the mock session that we spent within the Chamber here. It made the first day a lot easier; it made the first day a lot more comfortable. I wish to express my gratitude to the legislative staff for the time and effort they put in helping us Class-of-'95 people get our feet wet in the Chamber. Just before the provincial election was called, I was in a dentist's office waiting nervously to be called in.

I picked up a magazine and started flipping through it, and I came across an

article that was written in this magazine. It dealt with maneuvers that the U.S. Marines were going through off the coast of New England. In the course of these maneuvers, two of the subs collided, and one of the subs sank to the bottom of the ocean. The marines got the divers together quickly and dived down to the bottom of the ocean to see what they could do to help this submarine and the people within it. As the divers moved along the outside of the submarine, they began to notice a Morse code message being sent by the people from within the submarine.

The Morse code message was this, the people were asking, is there any hope? I looked at the throne speech that was presented here last week and I asked myself the same question: Is there any hope? Well, let us see. First of all, is there any hope for my constituents back in Dauphin coming out of this throne speech?

In the north part of my constituency of Dauphin is the Waterhen, Mallard, Skownan and Rock Ridge area This is an area of the constituency, an area of the province, which is economically depressed, but within this area there are people who are bound and determined to turn their area around and pursue a plan of economic development and try to make their area successful. They are doing this in a number of ways. There are lodges in the area whose purpose is to attract tourism, bring outside dollars into the community. They have a buffalo compound. A concern that they have is the condition of the roads in the area.

They are very much interested in promot ing their area as a fishing site to bring tourists up to their area and stimulate some kind of economic growth in that area. A little further south are the Meadow Portage, Toutes Aides, Rorketon, Magnet, Methley areas. Some of the best ranchland in the province is found in this area There is some grain farming mixed in with the ranching. This is an area that I am very well familiar with. As the principal of the Rorketon School I got to know many of the people of the Rorketon area very well.

What I noticed in the Rorketon area is something that I would like to see take place within this Chamber, I would like to see take place throughout the province of Manitoba, because those folks in Rorketon know what it means to have community spirit. They know what it means to co-operate. In an area that is not one of the more aftluent areas of the province, this little community with the few people that are left in Rorketon has developed for itself very much a co operative community-focused kind of a spirit that is serving them very well. [interjection]

May29, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 175 Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Could I ask the honourable members wanting to carry on a conversation to do so in the loge, please. We are having difficulty over here hearing the honourable member. This is the honourable member's first speech in the House, so if we could have a little bit of decorum. Mr. Struthers: Mr. Deputy Speaker, the one area of this part of the province that I would like to point out is a place called Manipogo park, which is Manitoba's best-kept secret. It is located along Lake Manitoba.

It is another example in this area of folks trying to promote their area in an economically developed way. Further south again we come to Ochre River and Makinak, a mixed-farming, cattle-ranching area Another area that they are looking at again as a way to develop economically is through recreation and leisure, situated close to Lake Dauphin and cottage country in the area, with beaches and cabins there that many people in the area utilize. *

(1450) Moving further north and west in the constituency we come across Sifton, Gilbert Plains and Grandview. Again it is a mixed-farming area, with some income brought in through logging. Gilbert Plains is known as an area with an excellent nine-hole golf course, so I invite all of you and any of you to come up and try out the Gilbert Plains golf course. The last town in the area that I want to briefly mention in this speech is Dauphin. It is our largest centre. It is known as our regional centre for the whole area.

Inside Dauphin we have a large seniors population which indicates a very important need in the form of our Dauphin Regional Health Centre. At one time Dauphin was a major hub for the CNR. The CNR employed many people, injected many salaries into the local economy. Of course, we all know that is changing and that the CNR no longer is a major employer in the town of Dauphin.

I want to take a minute here to put in a plug for Countryfest on July 1 and the National Ukrainian Festival at the beginning of August and the Dauphin fair, as well as many small-town fairs that occur in all of the little communities throughout the Dauphin constituency. Lake Dauphin is situated right in the middle of my constituency, and there are a number of different challenges that face Lake Dauphin. It has a very high potential to bring in much-needed dollars to our area. It has many opportunities for commercial fishing, for leisure and recreation and for tourism.

Thro ughout the course of the 1995 election, I came across a multitude of concerns that the constituents brought to me and that we will be expected, all 57 members will be expected, to address some time over the next four to five years. High among the list of concerns were rural depopulation, health care cutbacks, reliance on gambling, school closures, young people leaving our area, access to education, low commodity prices and high input costs, transportation.

In the area of transportation I cite the CNR track north of Dauphin to Swan River, offloading to R.M.s, natural resource management, everything from fish to forests, and aboriginal issues. In my riding are two reserves, one at Valley River and the other one located on the Waterhen First Nation. Both of these First Nations are very positive, very upward-looking in their attitude and their philosophy. They are very aggressively pushing for the betterment of their people. This is an area that we will be expected to help, and I say we should not take their concerns lightly.

So did last Tuesday's throne speech send a message of hope to the Dauphin constituency? Let us look further. Let us deal with some specific areas. One that I mentioned today in the questions that I asked the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae) dealt with the doctor crisis that is taking place in Grandview and Gilbert Plains as well as in Roblin and areas in the North and areas in other parts of rural Manitoba. Back in the fall this government knew that this crisis was taking place. Back in the fall this government could have moved to alleviate the situation. Back in

17 6 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 29, 1995 the fall this government did nothing. Footdragging took place throughout the fall and winter. Promises were made during the election, and today I am not just quite sure what the government has told me in terms of where these people stand now in badly needed health care treatment. Also in the area of health care, the Dauphin Regional Health Centre, in the middle of the election, found out that it was going to be implementing a$ I .4 million cut.

This is something that will most likely, in my opinion, mean layoffs of nurses and a reduction in staff for the people that I represent in Dauphin. I want to put the government in a warning position, saying that if this is something that they are going to continue to do, they will see me standing up in the House day after day yelling and screaming about it. Another issue that came up in the area of health care concerns the Waterhen area in my constituency. It makes economic and service sense to open a nursing station in the Waterhen area.

This is a project that the people of Waterhen approached me on which I think makes a lot of sense, and I would urge the government to consider such a move as well. Another area that was very much an election topic that I heard a lot about as I knocked on doors was the Home Care Program for seniors and for others who are in need of home care. Does this throne speech offer any kind of hope for people who have been cut off of home care? Does this throne speech offer any kind of hope for people who have had their home care reduced? What about farmers? In Dauphin, our base is agriculture.

In Dauphin, if the farmers suffer, everybody along the way suffers as well. One of the most fundamental questions that we are going to be asking and that you are going to be answering in the next four to five years and even sooner is the Canadian Wheat Board. Now the Canadian Wheat Board is an issue itself, but it is a very fundamental, basic, who-gets-to-decide kind of a question.

Are we going to favour the move that is taking place right now to dwnp the Wheat Board and leave the decis ion-making power in the hands of a very, very few elite farmers, or are we going to have the courage to stand up and say that we need to protect the Canadian Wheat Board, not only protect the Canadian Wheat Board but expand the role of the Wheat Board? For example, are we going to have guts enough to say that oats should fall under the auspices of the Canadian Wheat Board? In the fall, the Minister of Agriculture was asked to make a simple statement of support for the Canadian Wheat Board. He did not do it.

After the elections to the Canadian Wheat Board Advisory Committee, both the provincial Minister of Agriculture and his federal counterpart in Ottawa belittled the results of the election. That is not standing up for farmers, in my opinion. There is tremendous support amongst the farm community for the Wheat Board because the Wheat Board has helped farmers a great deal since its inception in 1935. Ifthere is anyone in this House who doubts the statement that I just made about the Wheat Board, ask somebody who hauled grain to the elevators before the Wheat Board was here. They will straighten you out.

Another issue that is absolutely basic, absolutely fundamental and most beneficial to farmers in my area is the Port of Churchill and the Hudson Bay route that connects us to our seaport. Up until now, the Port of Churchill has got absolutely minimal, if not less, support from both the federal and provincial governments. It is my contention that it is worse than no support. I believe there are people in the provincial and federal governments working against the viability of the Port of Churchill and the Hudson Bay route.

Any kind of excuse will do when it comes to saying that the Hudson Bay route will cost too much money to fix up. Any kind of excuse was used in the line between Swan River and Dauphin when the flood hit and the figures that were used to claim how much money it was going to cost were inflated. If we put our minds to it we can save farmers money per tonne in shipping our grain up through Churchill to market. We can also use the Port of Churchill to bring goods into the province of Manitoba if we had the political will to do so.

On the cattle side of the agriculture equation, I had the distinct pleasure of living in the middle of Manitoba's best ranch land, i.e., Rorketon, and learning

May 29, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 177 a lot about cattle producing. I learned enough to know that when you make a promise in an election for $10 million to go to grain farmers so that they can go into cattle in combination with the amount of cattle coming in from Australia, you are going to kick the daylights out of the domestic price of beef. Is this what this Legislature wants to accomplish?

That is one Tory promise, I hope, that is broken. * (1 500) All of this is premised, all of these statements I have made in agriculture are premised by the loss of the Crow benefit that has been kicked out of the Manitoba economy by the federal government We are looking at $30 to $40 per tonne that it is going to cost farmers in my area in the constituency of Dauphin. We are looking at a ripple effect, and you talk to the chamber of commerce, which I am a member of in Dauphin, and they will tell you the same thing. When the farmers have less money coming in, they have less money to spend in the businesses.

As a result, a lot fewer jobs are created. Another major issue that is going to take up some of our time in this House in the very near future is the amount of flooding that has taken place throughout the province. In my constituency, there are particular problems in the Grandview and Gilbert Plains areas, and there are many problems along the west side of Lake Dauphin. Cottage owners and ranchers and grain farmers are going to need to be compensated for the damages that they will sustain given the record amount of water that has flowed into Lake Dauphin.

One thing I want you to understand about this is that, first of all, they need to be compensated, and second of all, we need to discuss some long-term solutions to the problems of flooding. Mother Nature is a tough person to deal with sometimes, and I do not ever think that we can ever tame Mother Nature, but we have to take some steps that we can take in order to help people who live in these areas and people who farm in these areas and the people who work and make their income in these areas. The one thing that we do not need is to be told by the Agriculture Minister (Mr. Enns) that farmers are out of luck.

The policies that have taken place and the laws that have been passed over the last seven years have created a shift in attitude in the agriculture community. In pioneer days there was a spirit of co-operation. If something needed to be done, the district got together and they did it. Today things have changed. If you want to get a good reading on the attitude that is out there right now as a result of the policies that I have seen enacted by this government over seven years, go to a sale sometime and watch the scavengers fly.

Watch what happens when a sale comes along, and the neighbour is going under, and certain other neighbours think it is a good chance to get in and buy some stuff cheap. We are starting to produce in society the attitude that I am going to sit back and do nothing until my neighbours go down, and then I am going to swoop in, and I am going to get some good deals. That is the attitude that we have to start to change. That is the attitude that has been produced by a very narrow minded, rugged-individualist kind of attitude that I have seen emanating from this Legislature. Let us shift to education for a little bit.

I want to talk about our public schools, the importance of the public schools to rural Manitoba, the importance of the public schools to my constituency of Dauphin. I also want to speak a little bit about the boundary reviews that are in the works. In my area we have small schools whose very hub ends up being the public school. Many of the programs that help children even outside of schools are run through the public schools, and the public schools are used as a focus, as a centre for the community. I think that we should fight against the closure of any of these smaller schools.

In Rork�ton, in Gilbert Plains, in Ochre River, in Waterhen, these schools are of utmost importance to the future of our communities.

I7 8 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 29, I995 Over the last several years we have adopted the attitude, the premise, that bigger is better. Well, it does not always work that way. I speak from personal experience in this. As the principal of the Rorketon School, I never taught in a better school situation than a K to I2 school with I 54 students. We developed an absolutely great, fan tastic fam ily spirit in that school in which older brothers and sisters helped out their younger brothers and sisters.

Discipline problems that you read about in the papers did not occur in that school because ofthe situation, the setting in the small town that we were able to begin. Another aspect that I want to address in terms of education is the staff morale that is prevalent in our schools right now. Many of these are a result of Filmon Fridays and the lack of consultation that has taken place in terms of the decisions that have been made in education directly involving the work done by our teachers and the education received by our students. Morale has never been lower, in my opinion.

I have never seen morale as poor in the I 0 or so years that I have spent in the education field. It does not produce results. It does not produce students who can compete in the outside world. It does not produce cr eative, logical-thinking students. We have to do something to help alleviate that problem. Staff reductions-by getting elected to the Legislature I saved the Winnipegosis school the layoff of one person. Our school was slated fo r a I .5 percent reduc tion. My question is this: Who does the cutting? It is not the Premier (Mr. Filmon). It is not the cabinet. It is not those of us in opposition.

Sometimes it is not even the superin tendent. It ends up being the school principal sitting across the desk from a teacher aide or across the desk from a new-time teacher. That is where the cut takes place. It is easy to sit in an office and decide that you are going to reduce education spending by 2 percent fo r the year, sit back in your chair and take it easy and let the school principal do the dirty work. That is the kind of thing that I think has to stop in education. Another area in Dauphin that is of big concern to the constituents is the Parkland campus of Assiniboine Community College.

When Assiniboine Community College was moved into the Dauphin area, it was a boon fo r the town of Dauphin and fo r the region. Now young people could get the community college courses that they need and not have to take off into Brandon or to Winnipeg. What we are looking fo r now is an expansion of the services of ACC. There are still students out there who could gain if more courses were added to the roster at ACC. That is what I will be looking fo r.

Also, I will be looking fo r an expansion of the first- year distance education courses that are offered through the Dauphin Regional Comprehensive Secondary School. One of the reasons that I bring these up is that I think everybody here, especially those of us from rural Manitoba, should know, if we do not already, that the costs of education discriminate against rural students. We have to pay tuition and we have to pay books just like urban students do. Add in there though an extra $2,000, $6,000, whatever it may be, fo r rent and accommodations.

That there is a barrier against rural students coming into universities and perf orming well. If they do get to university, they end up with humongous debts that they carry after, and that is not fa ir either. * (1510 ) What has happened with the money becoming a barrier to access to university is that you have students in the middle grades and their parents deciding that university is not fo r them. They simply cannot afford it. They never see the day when they will be able to afford it, so they decide real soon in their educational careers that college and university is a no-go.

Then they make course decisions when they get to high school based on the fa ct that they do not think they can go to university, and it all relates to money. We wonder why we cannot get veteri narian s and doctors in rural Manitoba. I think that is a clue right there. So looking at the throne speech in the area of education, is there any hope fo r our students contained within that speech? Let us look again; let us look a little further. Let us look at the Parkland recreation complex. Here is an issue in Dauphin that actually does present a ray of hope fo r the people of Dauphin.

May 29, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 17 9 The recreation complex represents the hope of people in Dauphin that they will: No. 1, not lose as many young people as they have in the past; and No. 2, that we might actually be able to offer something to people outside ofDa uphin and outside of the Parkland Region as an enticement to move into our area. We believe that this Parkland recreation complex can actually attract people to our area. Rural depopulation backward s.

The complex was first proposed as a $9.2-million pro ject and the Province of Manitoba, through the infrastructure program, kicked in approx imately $600,000. That was matched by the federal government as long as it was matched by the local government. Now, $600,000 might sound like a lot of money, and when it comes to paying off the mortgage on my house, it sounds like a real lot of money, but when you look at the big picture, it does not amount to a great big percentage of that total figure.

The people of Dauphin realized this and were forced to split the pro ject into two phases in order to raise enough money to get started on the leisure pool and on the six-sheet curling rink. The plan is to go to phase 2 at some point in the future and begin construction of a hockey arena. I hate to say the words "hockey arena, " but that is what our plan is. One of the bottom lines here is, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, that when we move to phase 2 and start to build the hockey arena, it is actually going to cost us more money to do it this way, so by not putting up a whole lot of money to begin with, what the province and the federal governments have done is they have ended up costing the taxpayers of Dauphin more money in the long run. My suggestion would be that the provincial government and the federal people should belly up to the bar and put in the kind of money that they put into other pro jects. I think I do not need to say it, but I will name it.

If you supported the Dauphin recreati on complex the way you support the Winnipeg Jets and the second arena for Winnipeg, there would be no problem building the Dauphin recreation complex. I contend that the people of the Parkland have paid a lot of money to the federal and provi ncial governm ents over the years, and they are still curling and skating in buildings that were built during the Second World War. We are still swimming in a birdba th that was created as a centennial pro ject in 1967.

We have paid a lot of money in income tax over the years, and it is my view that we are not getting our fair share of the funding. It is also my view that instead of funding the Jets to the tune of at least $40 million, they should be putting a little bit more money into the Dauphin recreation complex. Another pro ject that has been a long-standing issue in Dauphin, a pro ject that has tremendous benefits in attracting people and industry to our area is the condition of our water.

We are looking and talking preliminarily right now about a water treatment facility, a water treatment facil ity which would improve dramatically the quality of our water. If there is any doubt about the quality of water, I would invite members opposite to come on up and have a drink of it, especially in the springtime and not watered down with too much scotch in order to choke it down. My hope is, when we finally do get funding in place for a water treatment facility, that we can use this water treatment facility in a plan to attract people to the Parkland area Mr.

Deputy Speaker, another issue that I think I would like to address right now is the issue of the Dauphin airport. The federal government has seen fit to cut from the Dauphin airport the $12 8,000 subsidy. Where this stands right now is that the provincial government could pick up the Dauphin airport and fund it if they saw it as a good idea. No. 1, I am concerned with safety. I am concerned with safety of the passengers flying in and out of Dauphin. The Regional Health Centre located in Dauphin, if it is going to be a regional health centre, needs the Dauphin airport for medical evacuations.

It needs to rely on the safety of the Dauphin airport. It does not need to fly around the Dauphin airport for 45 minutes while somebody comes running in to turn the lights on so that they can see where the runways are, as has happened in the past. That has happened because of a lack of commitment, a lack of willingness on the part of the federal and provincial governments.

18 0 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 29, 1995 There are a few more issues that I want to deal with. I want to talk about some of the people in my constituency, not people in terms of resources, but people in terms of living, breathing humans. I talked during the election with a mixed farmer whose husband is hooked on VL Ts. Is there any hope in this Speech from the Throne for that woman? I talked to a provincial civil servant who has a young family who is not sure just where he is going to be transferred to next. Is there any hope in this Speech from the Throne for that civil servant?

Is there any hope for the farm er who is sick and tired of replacing win dshields because of the condition of his road near Makinak. Is there any hope in this speech for him? Is there any hope for the woman who tra velled to Winnipeg for the service of a m amm ogram, only to discover that her date had been changed and that she had to go home without ever receiving the service? Is there any hope for the senior whose home care was significantly reduced? And why is this government picking on seniors? Just to wrap up, I just want to mention that each of us receives our inspiration from diff erent sources.

I receive my inspiration from my grandf ather, Stan Paull, who died three weeks ago, just after the election. He was an employee with the R.M. of Swan River for 42 years. He built bridg es. He installed culverts to connect people from one part of the valley of Swan River to the other. That is how I see myself operating as an MLA, building bridges with whoever wants a bridge to be built between us in order to help the people of Manitoba Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. * (1 520) Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St James): I would like to congratulate you on your appointment as Deputy Speaker, and the Speaker.

It is an old and honoura ble position that includes the serious responsi bility of ensuring the independence of this legis lative House. Having followed the House for the past few years, I know that the former Speaker fulfilled the task with fairness, justice and good humour. I look forward to your guidance and the Speaker's guidance to lead by those principles which will ensure the proceedings in this House are rendered in an appropriate manner. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank the Clerk of the House for the pro vision of the new members' orienta tion session for us.

It provided us with some background and the basics of the rules of the House as well as an opportunity for us rookies to meet other new members. As my Leader and other colleagues of our caucus have expr essed, I wish to also concur with their opinion that in the future this House move from an appointed Senate-! mean Speaker to an elected Speaker, as is the custom in other Legis lative Assemblies. I also agree with the Senate part. [interjection] Yes, I am biased. Today I will discuss what I bring to the House as a new member, some of my experiences, my constituency of St.

James and the issues expressed by the people of St. James during the election campaign. It is an honour for me to serve this House. I would like to thank the people of St. James for the honour that they have given me by putting their support by my name on election day. Additionally, I would like to thank my family, particularly my husband, Ken Marshal l, who always encouraged me and had confidence in my abilities. He took care of our family. He worked tirelessly on the election campaign.

To my son, John, who is 12 , who helped distribute pamphlets, and to our daughter, Sarah, who was only two months old when the election was called. A special thank-you to my mother, Katherine Salama ndyk Mihychuk Meleshko, as a feminist and a pioneer who worked very hard to raise her family and insti lled those feminist values in us. Finally, a thank you to my friends, to my neighbours and all of those who helped on the election. With your indulgence, I would like to ref er to my Manitoba roots . Next year our family will be celebrating our centennial in Manitoba.

Wasylana and John Salamandyk arrived in Manitoba from Ukraine in 18 96 to homestead in the Stuartburn are a. My father, Metro Mihychuk, arrived with his parents from Ukraine in 19 00 to settle in the Arbakka ar ea. These settlers

May 29, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 181 came with dreams, Mr. Deputy Speaker, dreams of a new life, dreams and little more. They were poor people, but they were ready to sacrifice all to see their dreams come true, and for the most part they have. Unfortunately, the situation is not the same today. If my ancestors were trying to come to Manitoba today, I doubt that they would qualify. To my late father, I would like to give a special tribu te. It was also his dream to one day stand in this House and speak before you.

As an early CCFer and through the NDP he fought diligently for the people of his community. I was born in rural Manitoba in the village of Vita. Our family moved to Winnipeg when I was ten and I was educated in the north end and in St. Vital and received my undergrad degree through the University of Winnipeg. I bring to this honourable House my experience as a geologist and a school trustee. I also bring my rural ties with a small farm in the Interlake.

In my activities as a geologist I have had the good fortune to visit and live in many parts of Manitoba, including Flin Flon, Seal River, Churchill, Cross Lake, Snow Lake, Thompson, Boggy Creek, Morden, St. Malo and Cartwright as well as Neepawa. This has made me aware of the natural, social and economic diversity of our great province, Manitoba. We are fortunate to have bountiful mineral resour ces, Mr. Deputy Speaker, in our province. It is essential to Manitoba's future that these resources be managed in a well-thought-out manner to ensure the benefit for them in the future and by all Manitobans.

I was very honoured to be appointed opposition Energy and Mines critic, a position I take very seriously. The mining industry has undergone several distressing years under this government. Over a thousand have been lost and several mines have been closed. Fortunately, the industry is rebounding somewhat curr ently and there are several pro jects in the preliminary stages. Regrettably, this government, in a very short-sighted move, sold Manitoba Resources, a valuable asset for the North and all of Manitoba.

First elected as a trustee in 19 89 for the Winnipeg School Division, I have had the good fortune to serve my community for five and a half years and for the last three consecutive years as chair of the board. Public education is vital to our children and their families and our provinc e. The current crisis in education is as the result of slow financial starva tion of the public eduction system, while private schools receive windfall levels of support and knee-jerk reactionary policies. The cuts to education mean cuts to our children. Our children are facing hardships on all fronts.

In terms of social and family services, we have seen cuts by this government to foster families, cuts to the chil d-parent centres, long waiting lists for access to psychiatrists, psychologists and counselling services, health care programs such as the dental services for rural Manitoba and such cuts in recreational opportunities such as the summ er programs, the closing of the St. Jaq1es Y and now the North Winnipeg Y. Today we learned the Kildonan youth activity centre is in danger of closing. Our children need a healthy and saf e place to meet. They need more opportuni ties, not less.

They need an alternative to the streets, not boot camps which studies indicate do not rehabilitate but may actually harden our youth and move them into a lif e of crime, not away from it Where are the policies to help our children so that they do not choose a lif e of crime? There are also many children coming to school without proper clothing and not fed. This is a disgrace. The fact that Manitoba has the highest child poverty in Canada is not a theoretical concept. Look at some of our children in my riding, in your riding, in the core, in the North and in rural areas.

It is true that changes are necessary in education; however, this governmenfs changes are just for change sake. Three ministers, three plans. These plans have a fundamental flaw, and I would suggest that the plan will not hold any type of structure. Cuts to recess, then no cuts. Compulsory exams at G�ade 12 in two cours es, then all cour ses, now even in Grade 3. Making Canadian history optional. Cuts to English at

182 LEGISLATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA May29, 1995 the senior level while spouting the need for more basics, not less. No phys ed and then mandatory phys ed. In fact, Mr. Deputy Speaker, one superintendent told me the only way they could program for the now mandatory phys ed is that we would need to build a second gymnasium on every school. This would be valuable because with the cuts to the lunch hour these child ren need to have lunch at school, unless we are willing to bus them all. I hope that the government has enough money for these programs.

As if there are not enough real issues in education this government talks partnership in education and then leaves out the educators. I say shame. This government is preoccupied with changing the lines on a map under the guise that bigger is better. We are not fooled. Changing names and lines is more expensive, not less. More bureaucracy, not less. More energy on the unimportant, rather than dealing with the real issues. * (1 530) This government should be open with the people of Manitoba and make change where it is needed, when it is needed and where it will save money, not waste it.

Public reaction to the proposed school division boundaries is appropriate, and I congratulate the minister. Unfortunately, the minister's timetable requiring feedback to be over by September makes the process a farce. It is true, and everyone agrees, that changes are necessary in education. We need a new model of education, a model which is inclusive, a model that meets the needs of the student. We need a model which will meet tomorrow's needs, not yesterday's needs.

Our goal is to have an educational system which allows each person to learn at their own speed in their own way, not a system based on an industrial factory model which assumes that all the pieces are the same. Our goal should be to have each learner achieve to their best ability. Our goal should be to reduce dropout rates, not increase them. Our schools do need to be violence free, but we also have an obligation to provide an education to the young people who need to be removed from the regular school system. I hope the minister will be announcing very soon an alternative for these young people.

These changes will not be easy, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for the education system is a very complex one. It will require real consultation, real vision and real support by this government. I would now like to take you all for an imaginary walk through my riding of St. James. I would ask the members to close their eyes and help imagine this tour, but it seems to me that too many of this government already have their eyes closed to the reality of Manitoba. Our tour begins by turning left out the front door of this building.

We walk to the end of Broadway, across Portage A venue, and this puts us at the southeast comer of the riding. It spans from Portage to Ellice starting at Toronto Street. We pass Toronto, Beverley, Simcoe and then Home. What do we see when we cross over these streets? We· see an inner-city area. We see poverty. We see housing stock deteriorating; houses that have been owned by slumlords and are looking for only profit. We can see people that do need reasonable housing and do need opportunities. We see people without work, people falling through the cracks of the mental health system, people without hope.

Their issues are their day-to-day needs. They worry about food, clothing and shelter for their children and themselves. They worry about safety, work and a purpose in life. Unfortunately, the growth areas are in food banks, soup kitchens, slumlords and unemployment lines. It is terribly unf ortunate that this government's throne speech does not address the needs of this community or those in the same position. Next on our walking tour we cross Arlington. From here to Polo Park the area is known as the West End, a community composed of a wide diversity of people, language, culture and social customs.

We see an older residential neighbourhood renewed with young families. We see professionals, working people and new immigrants and seniors.

May29, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 183 Many choose to live here because of the great conveniences, within minutes to downtown for work, close to major shopping centres like Polo Park. Presently, we are close to the arena, and we are close to the stadium and other sporting events, concerts and a variety of special events. Parents are particularly happy that we will finally have renewal of the Greenway School. This has been a pro ject that the community has been working to get for many, many years, approximately 10 years.

It is ironic that it took us 10 years to renew a school building for children when it took a few weeks to build a multimillion dollar complex for millionaire Jet players. Their children will finally have a place which is safe, which has all the features of a modern school, including a computer room, a library, a gymnasium, wheelchair access and special needs facilities. Continuing on, we pass Omand' s Creek as it meanders through the riding, a much needed and valued green space which must be protected from development and pavement. People in this area are concerned about community safety.

There is a need for a greater visibility of the community police officer program. The community police program in schools, which provided an accessible link with youth and with community, has been removed. They also are concerned about job security and a health care system that will be there when they need it. Continuing on westward, we pass Polo Park and we pass the Prairie Dog Central Station which may soon be the only remaining passenger train left in Canada. We are now in the community of St. James.

The riding now extends south of Portage to the Assiniboine River, north to the airport and west to Albany Street. The area has some renewal, and infill housing is quite common. The other characteristic, you will notice, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is the sound of aircraft coming into the Winnipeg International Airport. The people here have a real sense of community. Many have lived in the area for their entire life. The people are strong-willed, independent and hard working. Many people here are affected by the airport and associated industries, businesses and the military.

The decision to transfer Air Command from Winnipeg to Ottawa was particularly hard because of the hundreds of civilian jobs that were lost here, many of them in the riding of St. James. There was no transfer for them. There are also the associated layoffs that are occurri ng at Bristol, and many of them live in St. James riding as well. During the election, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I had the opportunity to meet many people. I would like to share some of their stories with you.

I want to tell you about the new immigrant family whom I met who wanted to be reunited with their family members in Vietnam but could not afford the landing fees. I want to tell you about the 50-year-old man whom I met, who was in tears, who had been laid off eight months ago from a job he held for over 30 years. How would he be able to support his family as he always had? He wanted to know who would hire him and what he was to do. I want to tell you about an elderly woman in her 80s who told me about her husband suddenly becoming ill last Christmas when they were visiting family in Portage la Prairie.

He was at home now on Banning Street, a home they had lived in for the last 50 years. She was very worried about their future. The deinsured medical expenses for her husband over the past three months was $800. They did not know how they were going to manage. These are but a few of the many stories that I heard in the riding of St. James. It is unfortunate that the throne speech is not dealing with these issues that I have mentioned. In conclusion, Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is a great honour for me to be here.

I wish to thank you and the other members in the House for their patience, and I vow to represent the people of St. James and work to the best of my ability. Thank you. Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am glad for the opportunity to contribute to this debate on the first throne speech of the thirty-sixth parliament of Manitoba. I would like to add my congratulations to those of others on your new appointment and to wish you well and also to wish the new Madam Speaker well in her

18 4 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 29, 1995 future as well. The position of Speaker demands qualities of nonpartisanship which are not easy to come by in this House but which are essential if the work of government is to proceed and if the interests of all Manitobans are to be served. I would like also to pay tribute, as have others in my party, to your predecessor, the member for Gladstone (Mr. Rocan), who steered the House through the difficult times of narrow majorities and tied votes and who set a standard with his sense of humour and his accommodation of those of us who were new to the Chamber. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the general election of 1995 seemed at the time relatively low key, although I- * (1 540) Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Could I ask the honourable members please go to the loge and carry on their conversation? Thank you. The honourable member for Wolseley to continue. Ms. Friesen: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. It seemed low key in some parts of the city, but I know that was not the case in some of the rural ridings. It will in retrospect be remembered, at least in the short run, for the ghost issue of the future of the Winnipeg Jets.

The name of the sports team was rarely breathed openly during the campaign, yet in some suburban ridings and among younger and, some say, predominately male voters, it apparently played a determining role. The electoral impact of this perhaps fell most heavily on the Liberals. Our own party was able to increase our popular vote and the number of seats in this House, and I am delighted to welcome the new members on this side: Osborne (Ms. McGifford), Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) as well as the new representatives from Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen) and Dauphin (Mr. Struthers), and, of course, St. James (Ms. Mihychuk).

Indeed, I have listened to the first speeches of most of these new members of the House with great interest, and I am glad to have the opportunity to add my comments to theirs today. The issue of the Jets and the arena was of concern to Manitobans. How puzzled and let down they must feel by this government. One day after the election the government claims it never knew of the NHL conditions for the long-term situation of the team. No, this government had never been briefed on the April 13 th NHL telephone call to the MEC.

No, this government had never understood for the past year and a half that the NHL might have some interest in the long-term requirements for the team, and why, yes, of course, the public purse was wide open to support this business enterprise that also calls itself a sport. Firm election promises of $10 million were thrown away. The mandate the government had received to spend only up to $10 million meant nothing apparently, and the Filmon team seems to have a bottomless pit of public dollars for the support of this business venture in the city of Winnipeg. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, it has been a curious public debate over the last few days and weeks. There have been passionate, public outpourings of support for the presence of the team in the city. Some of this has been exploited by some of the media, but that is another story. There was, in fact, a genuine, popular sentiment that we were losing something of value to a broad

section of the Manitoba public. Underlying much of that sentiment was a sense of resistance to what the Tories would view as the inevitability of market forces. Small markets such as Winnipeg cannot support major league teams in a free market system, and yet at Portage and Main and at The Forks there were thousands of Manitobans who were prepared to make their stand against the tyranny of the market. They were prepared to turn out their piggy banks and even their children's piggy banks to support such a symbolic attempt to stem the tide of the new right ideology. In fact, in general, this is an ideological world turned upside down.

May29, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 18 5 The right, the Tories, have responded to this popular movement with a cynical disregard for democratic mandates of election promises. During the election they were, to use the British phrase, economical with the truth. They are now being less than economical with the public purse as the $10 million of public money climbs daily to $37 million and more, including millions in foregone tax revenue, millions in the new arena management plan, and, in my view, an intangible and immeasurable loss in the location of the proposed arena at The Forks.

Here are the Tories saying, spend, spend, spend. On the other side of the House, the New Democrats are saying, be prudent, be mindful of the needs of all Manitobans, beware of the long-term implications of continuous financial support without corresponding guarantees such as those outlined in the earlier financial evaluations of the Burns and Mauro reports. Which of us is the more fiscally responsible? Which of us is the more respectful of the public purse? Which ofus has the clearer picture ofthe democratic mandate received during the last election?

Such sentiments in this House are usually met by calls from the government side of, you must be against the Jets, the NDP is against the Jets. I must admit, when I first came to this House I was appalled by that type of manipulative and fundamentally dishonest form of debate. I have come to expect it as a matter of course from some honourable members. I was still disappointed to hear it not only from the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) the other day but also twice now in Question Period from the Minister of Finance (Mr.

Stefanson), of whom I expected better things, but I suppose tax-and-spend Tories in a tight comer have very few defences left. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I know of no one who wants to see the Jets leave. Their economic presence here is important. The opportunities they offer to us in the broader context of Canadian and North American markets are important. The role they play in the popular culture of our province deserves recognition. The sense of pride that they engender amongst young Manitobans is noteworthy. All of this I have heard from my constituents.

What I have also heard is that the fundamental issue is, what is the price we are prepared to pay as a community to support this particular business enterprise? There is a wide range of responses to that question. There is vociferous opposition for any public support from some parts of my community. I particularly have heard this from nurses and teachers' aides who have lost their jobs, who live in families who are fortunate if they still have one pay cheque in the family and who more frequently now are seeing themselves realistically on welfare within the year. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, some constituents are indeed philosophically opposed to any form of support for business. They come from both sides of the ideological spectrum. There are some who are prepared to support $10 million invested in a sound business plan. I know of no one in Manitoba who voted for $37 million and climbing. Come to think of it, I know of no one in Manitoba who publicly will admit to having seen a sound business plan either. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the irony of all this is that these many different responses spring, I believe, from the same root.

I believe that most Manitobans have great anxieties about the future of this province. Those who have lost their jobs, those who see public services deteriorating, those who see post-secondary education slipping beyond their grasp, those whose children cannot find work, those whose children have been forced to leave their communities-all those families know that the future is insecure. Those Manitobans who still have jobs are finding themselves asked to do the work of several to the detriment of the health of themselves and their families.

Those who still have jobs are being asked to take wage cut after wage cut whether at the direct hand of this government as in Bill 22, or by the indirect route of underfunding of public institutions, or at the ordering of a market where the ghost anny of the unemployed is always present. How timely in this was the reply of the Minister of Education (Mrs. Mcintosh) today to my question about the impact of the loss of270 teachers in Manitoba next

18 6 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 29, 1995 year. Well, teachers have a choice, she said, and the Premier (Mr. Filmon) echoed her, they can accept lower wages. This is in fact to people who have taken wage cuts over the last two years at least and in some cases have not seen wage-[ interjection] The Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) wants to say that is not so. What does he think that Bill 22 did? Has he got no contact with his own constituents? In the last speech I made in the House before the election, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, on the budget, I spoke of the underlying insecurity of so many of my constituents and other Manitobans. It is an insecurity which leads us all in a downward spiral. Families who are insecure do not invest in the capital goods which drive the North American economy. Insecure families do not invest in the training and further education which will be required in the next century.

Businesses locate and stay in communities which have a sense of energy and which have invested in education and other modern elements of infrastructure, not in communities which are losing their hope for the future and which are divided over their sense of direction. At one level, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Manitobans want to feel pride in their sense of community. This demonstrated itself in the outpouring of support for a hockey team.

Whether or not they support the spending of large sums of public money on stadiums and private hockey clubs, Manitobans all are tired of seeing their friends and families going down the road to Alberta or British Columbia They are fearful about finding the pink slip in their own pay cheque. They feel helpless and despondent when it is their own spouse or child who is the next to lose their job.

In my view it is that kind of sentiment, that level of daily insecurity which is behind the public's desperate efforts to find a solution to the Jets. * (1 550) Equally, it is these same anxieties for the future which drive the response of many of my constituents who fear that we cannot as a community afford to divert public spending on such a munificent scale to a private hockey club and away from dealing with the tragedy of the daily expansion of child poverty in our province.

If the government chooses to see in the public demonstrations of support for the team only the mirror image of their own aimless brands of boosterism, they will make, in my view, a serious mistake. Behind this issue lies a genuine and widely shared sense of growing despair about the prospects for our province in the new and brutal world that the free market Tories have constructed. In the longer term, of course, the re-election of this government will have serious consequences for the future of the province and for the well-being of its citizens.

The government has a majority, a parliamentary majority, and I do not quarrel with that, but as it proceeds on its narrow, ideological course, it should be mindful of the majority of Manitobans who did not choose to vote Conservative. Elections and election campaigns are always milestones. This, my second, allowed me to reflect on the changes I have seen in the past five years in Wolseley, West Broadway and the area of the constituency which is north of Portage Avenue. Most notable is that in the poorer parts of the riding, the poor have become poorer.

This is no surprise if one follows the reports from the Social Planning Council or Statistics Canada, but its human face is always and eternally shocking. In areas where the majority of money comes from various forms of transfer payments, such as pensions, disability pensions or social assistance, the increased poverty is clearly due to government policies- Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. There are two or three members out there seeming to want to yell at each other across the floor. If you want to have that discussion, go sit over here in the loge or out in the hall, so we can carry on with this meeting.

The honourable member for Wolseley to carry on. Ms. Friesen: -of reduction in assistance or changes in daycare regulations and fees or changes in special allowance regulations, which in themselves may not sound large, but which make enormous differences to the lives of the people whom I meet. Mr. Deputy Speaker, with increased poverty comes a decline in nutrition and in overall health, and as some

May 29, 19 95 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 18 7 of these young people head into the over-25-age group without ever having had a place in the workforce, their prospects for the future, indeed their own sense of a future, becomes ever more bleak. Similarly for those who are disabled or without work and over 50, there is no golden sunset at the end of the day. Students, in particular, are growing cynical about their prospects.

Those who are aware of the dramatic changes in federal legislation, which will withdraw federal funding for post-secondary education, are working as quickly as they can in academic and financial terms to finish their courses before the changes are made. Many of them now see that the graduate school or professional school they had hoped to attend is now out of reach. Young and informed as they are, they are often surprisingly cheerful in their pessimism, but no government can afford to ignore the warnings of their situation.

We face the prospect ofhaving only a small portion of our young people in post-secondary education and a larger number who are unable, for fmancial reasons, to get that first foot on the ladder that their parents did or that their parents, immigrants and others, believed that they had struggled for. Such wastage, such exclusions are not the foundations of a hopeful and healthy community.

Elsewhere in Wolseley I found a community of citizens who are working very hard to keep their families, their education, their aging parents in some form of stability in a world which they are coming to see is inherently unstable. Indeed, one of the most striking differences in this election was in the difficulty in finding people home. So often they were working at more than one part-time job, trying to take an upgrading or extension education, but they were rarely home. Yet even so, their energy and interest in a discussion of political affairs often amazed me. Wolseley is a dense urban setting.

Politics is not some abstract fonn of discussion among the elites. It is about what happens in the community club, what happens on the street to one's neighbour, the upkeep not only of your own house but that of the rest of the street, whether it is owner occupied or rented from an absentee landlord. But it is not just in the daily life of community and street where politics counts. To many of my constituents, provincial legislation, The Landlord and Tenant Act in particular, is a daily necessity. Its

interpretation by civil servants and the ability of both the province and the city to enforce housing and safety standards are vital parts of the daily life. My constituents also place great store in the ability of the city and the province to work together. This is not just in housing and social assistance and day care matters but in the area of the prevention ofDutch elm disease and in the improvements which could be possible in the emerging park at Omand's Creek.

They care deeply about the maintenance of good service at the community hospital, the Misericordia, and applaud its recent outreach work in our community. They are passionate about education. Our schools are full and serve a great diversity. I notice in particular at this election a great participation and interest in schools, not only by parents but iJ;J. parent councils, and not only at Laura Secord where registration queues begin at three in the morning but at Mulvey where parents are involved in computer education, lunch programs and the organizing of community events such as powwows.

At Gordon Bell, the satellite campus downtown and its extended high school alternative program have made it a very exciting high school. What ties all these together, of course, is not just that they are in Wolseley but that they are public institutions built by the people for the people and increasingly run with a wider democratic participation by the people. This last weekend brought home to me how important these public institutions were not only to the innate quality of life in the city but also to our sense of ourselves. I started out my day doing the early shift at the Teddy Bears' Picnic.

It was a spectacularly beautiful day at Assiniboine Park. The many marquees were pitched behind the pavilion, and even though there were large crowds the park was still home to many other activities from the zoo to the gardens to the picnic grounds to the cricket pitches and the baseball diamonds. It was mostly free and it was all public and it was so, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because in the last century there were

18 8 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 29, 19 95 citizens and taxpayers who equally saw the long-tenn benefits of such an investment. The park that opened in 19 09, the zoo which began in 19 05 and the Conservatory which began in 1914 all give pleasure still in 1995. Moreover, they still elicit active support by the citizens of Winnipeg. The Friends of the Conservatory, the Friends of the Zoo give their time and energy to institutions which benefit us all and which we all support with our taxes.

Similarly, the enonnous amount of time and energy which went into organizing the Teddy Bears' Picnic represented the commitment of thousands of Manitobans, public sector worke rs such as nurses and hospital workers, the fire and police departments, who had their vehicles drawn up, the St. John Ambulance, whose headquarters is also in Wolseley, and the many Winnipeg businesses who made their contribution to one of our major public institutions, the Children's Hospital. As Manitobans we have built this institution. We have trained the many professionals who work there. We support it with our taxes.

We are grateful to all our fellow citizens without whom we could not build such centres in a population of this size. We are grateful when we must use it, and we are thankful that it is there even when we no longer have children. Equally important is the point that I think Manitobans, like many other Canadians, do not simply let government take all the responsibility for these institutions. This is not a distant democracy. They care now, as they did earlier in this

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	36-1-5a
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	36th 1st hansardpdf 5a.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	dcd32d7140ce154ad67449d5f69d8c2fb0435750

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