British Columbia Hansard — Tuesday, October 5, 2004 (37th Parliament, 5th Session) (h1005pm-04) (h1005pm 04)

h1005pm-04

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

5th Session, 37th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Tuesday, October 5, 2004 Afternoon Sitting Volume 26, Number 4 THE HONOURABLE CLAUDE RICHMOND, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Iona V. Campagnolo, CM, OBC 5TH SESSION, 37TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Claude Richmond EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations ...............................................................................................................Hon.

Sindi Hawkins Deputy Premier and Minister of Advanced Education .......................................................................................................... Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries..................................................................................................................... Hon. John van Dongen Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Treaty Negotiations............................................................................. Hon.

Geoff Plant, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ..........................................................................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of State for Early Childhood Development...................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services ................................................................................................ Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of State for Immigration and Multicultural Services..............................................................................................Hon. Patrick Wong Minister of State for Women's and Seniors' Services................................................................................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Education ............................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Tom Christensen Minister of Energy and Mines...............................................................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining...................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Minister of Finance.........................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Gary Collins Minister of Forests................................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of State for Forestry Operations.................................................................................................................................. Hon. Roger Harris Minister of Health Services.........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of State for Mental Health and Addiction Services ................................................................................................Hon. Brenda Locke Minister of Human Resources........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Susan Brice Minister of Management Services ............................................................................................................................................. Hon.

Joyce Murray Minister of Provincial Revenue.................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General...................................................................................................................... Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Skills Development and Labour......................................................................................................................Hon. Graham P.

Bruce Minister of Small Business and Economic Development ...............................................................................................................Hon. John Les Minister of Sustainable Resource Management ....................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of State for Resort Development.......................................................................................................... Hon.

Armando (Sandy) Santori Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Kevin Falcon Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection ............................................................................................................................... Hon.

Bill Barisoff LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Deputy Speaker ............................................................................................................................................................................. Dr. John Weisbeck Leader of the Opposition ..................................................................................................................................................................Joy K.

MacPhail Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole.............................................................................................................................................. Harold Long Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ................................................................................................................................... E.

George MacMinn, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D. Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H.

James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ..................................................................................................................................................Anthony Dambrauskas Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Peter Bray Published by British Columbia Hans ard Services, and printed under the authority of the Speaker by the Queen's Printer, Victoria.

Rates: single issue, $2.85; per calendar year, mailed daily, $298. GST extra. Agent: Crown Publications Inc., 521 Fort St., Victoria, B.C. V8W 1E7. Telephone: (250) 386-4636. Fax: 386-0221. www.leg.bc.ca Hansard Services publishes transcripts both in print and on the Internet. Chamber debates are broadcast on television and webcast on the Internet.

Party Standings: Liberal 73; New Democratic 2; Independent Liberal 3; Vacant 1 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) ..........................................................................Shuswap Anderson, Rev. Val (L) .......................................................... Vancouver-Langara Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)...............................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon.

Pat (L) ..................................................................Prince George North Belsey, Bill (L)....................................................................................North Coast Bennett, Bill (L) ..............................................................................East Kootenay Bhullar, Tony (Ind. L) ................................................................... Surrey-Newton Bloy, Harry (L).....................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L)..........................................

Prince George–Mount Robson Bray, Jeff (L) ........................................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Brenzinger, Elayne (Ind. L)...........................................................Surrey-Whalley Brice, Hon. Susan (L)...................................................................... Saanich South Bruce, Hon. Graham P. (L) ................................................. Cowichan-Ladysmith Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L) .............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .........................................................

Oak Bay–Gordon Head Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ...................................................... Okanagan-Vernon Chutter, Dave (L) ..............................................................................Yale-Lillooet Clark, Christy (L) .............................................................Port Moody–Westwood Cobb, Walt (L) ................................................................................Cariboo South Coell, Hon. Murray (L) ..........................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon.

Rich (L)................................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Collins, Hon. Gary (L) ..........................................................Vancouver-Fairview de Jong, Hon. Michael (L) ........................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) ............................................................ Surrey-Cloverdale Hagen, Hon.

Stan (L) ......................................................................Comox Valley Halsey-Brandt, Greg (L) ............................................................Richmond Centre Hamilton, Arnie (L)..............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin Hansen, Hon. Colin (L) .......................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Harris, Hon. Roger (L) ................................................................................Skeena Hawes, Randy (L)............................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Hon.

Sindi (L) ........................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ..................................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Gordon (L)................................................................... Surrey–White Rock Hunter, Mike (L) ..................................................................................... Nanaimo Jarvis, Daniel (L)........................................................North Vancouver–Seymour Johnston, Ken (L)..............................................................

Vancouver-Fraserview Kerr, Brian J. (L) ................................................................ Malahat–Juan de Fuca Krueger, Kevin (L)................................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)................................ Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lee, Richard T. (L).........................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L)................................................................... Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)....................................................................

Chilliwack-Sumas Locke, Hon. Brenda (L) .................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Long, Harold (L) .................................................... Powell River–Sunshine Coast MacKay, Dennis (L)......................................................... Bulkley Valley–Stikine McMahon, Wendy (L).............................................. Columbia River–Revelstoke MacPhail, Joy K. (NDP) .......................................................

Vancouver-Hastings Manhas, Karn (L) ..............................................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Masi, Reni (L) ..................................................................................... Delta North Mayencourt, Lorne (L)............................................................Vancouver-Burrard Murray, Hon. Joyce (L)............................................................. New Westminster Nebbeling, Ted (L)..................................................... West Vancouver–Garibaldi Nettleton, Paul (Ind.

L) ...................................................Prince George–Omineca Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) ....................................................... Peace River North Nijjar, Rob (L).....................................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Nuraney, John (L)..................................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Orr, Sheila (L) .............................................................................Victoria-Hillside Penner, Barry (L)......................................................................... Chilliwack-Kent Plant, Hon.

Geoff, QC (L).................................................... Richmond-Steveston Reid, Judith (L)....................................................................... Nanaimo-Parksville Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ..................................................................... Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L)...................................................................Kamloops Roddick, Valerie (L)............................................................................

Delta South Sahota, Patty (L).......................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Santori, Hon. Armando (Sandy) (L) ........................... West Kootenay–Boundary Stephens, Lynn (L).................................................................................... Langley Stewart, Ken (L)........................................................

Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Stewart, Richard (L)........................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Suffredine, Blair F. (L)..................................................................Nelson-Creston Sultan, Ralph (L) .........................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L)............................................................Okanagan-Westside Trumper, Gillian (L)..................................................................Alberni-Qualicum van Dongen, Hon.

John (L)..................................................Abbotsford-Clayburn Visser, Rod (L)...................................................................................North Island Weisbeck, Dr. John (L) ................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Whittred, Katherine (L)............................................. North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wilson, Dr. John (L)........................................................................Cariboo North Wong, Hon.

Patrick (L).....................................................Vancouver-Kensington LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn ........................................................ Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman................................................Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum ........................................................................ Gillian Trumper Bulkley Valley–Stikine ................................................................ Dennis MacKay Burnaby North................................................................................ Richard T.

Lee Burnaby-Edmonds.............................................................................. Patty Sahota Burnaby-Willingdon ........................................................................John Nuraney Burquitlam............................................................................................ Harry Bloy Cariboo North...............................................................................Dr.

John Wilson Cariboo South........................................................................................Walt Cobb Chilliwack-Kent ................................................................................ Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas ........................................................................... Hon. John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke .....................................................Wendy McMahon Comox Valley .............................................................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville............................................................... Richard Stewart Cowichan-Ladysmith .........................................................Hon. Graham P.

Bruce Delta North.............................................................................................Reni Masi Delta South...................................................................................Valerie Roddick East Kootenay .....................................................................................Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin .................................................................... Arnie Hamilton Fort Langley–Aldergrove....................................................... Hon.

Rich Coleman Kamloops ......................................................................... Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson.......................................................... Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country ...........................................................Dr. John Weisbeck Kelowna-Mission ...................................................................Hon. Sindi Hawkins Langley........................................................................................... Lynn Stephens Malahat–Juan de Fuca.......................................................................

Brian J. Kerr Maple Ridge–Mission ......................................................................Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows............................................................... Ken Stewart Nanaimo .............................................................................................Mike Hunter Nanaimo-Parksville..............................................................................Judith Reid Nelson-Creston......................................................................... Blair F.

Suffredine New Westminster .................................................................... Hon. Joyce Murray North Coast .......................................................................................... Bill Belsey North Island.......................................................................................... Rod Visser North Vancouver–Lonsdale .................................................... Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour ..............................................................

Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head.................................................................Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon ..............................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside................................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Peace River North ...............................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South ..........................................................................Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley...................................................... Hon.

Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain......................................................Karn Manhas Port Moody–Westwood ....................................................................Christy Clark Powell River–Sunshine Coast............................................................Harold Long Prince George North .........................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson................................................. Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca .................................................................

Paul Nettleton Richmond Centre ...................................................................Greg Halsey-Brandt Richmond East ............................................................................ Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ........................................................... Hon. Geoff Plant, QC Saanich North and the Islands..................................................Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South............................................................................. Hon. Susan Brice Shuswap ................................................................................

Hon. George Abbott Skeena .......................................................................................Hon. Roger Harris Surrey-Cloverdale ....................................................................Hon. Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers............................................................Hon.

Brenda Locke Surrey-Newton ..................................................................................Tony Bhullar Surrey–Panorama Ridge..............................................................................Vacant Surrey-Tynehead .............................................................................Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley ........................................................................ Elayne Brenzinger Surrey–White Rock..........................................................................

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard .................................................................. Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview..................................................................Hon. Gary Collins Vancouver-Fraserview ..................................................................... Ken Johnston Vancouver-Hastings.................................................................... Joy K. MacPhail Vancouver-Kensington ........................................................... Hon. Patrick Wong Vancouver-Kingsway............................................................................

Rob Nijjar Vancouver-Langara................................................................. Rev. Val Anderson Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .............................................Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey..................................................... Hon. Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena ............................................................. Hon.

Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill ...............................................................................Jeff Bray Victoria-Hillside.....................................................................................Sheila Orr West Kootenay–Boundary ...................................Hon. Armando (Sandy) Santori West Vancouver–Capilano ............................................................... Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi............................................................

Ted Nebbeling Yale-Lillooet .....................................................................................Dave Chutter

CONTENTS Tuesday, October 5, 2004 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................ 11389 Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ....................................... 11389 Finance Statutes Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 69) Hon. G. Collins Property Transfer Tax Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 70) Hon. G. Collins Expropriation Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 67) Hon. G.

Plant Land Title and Survey Authority Act (Bill 68) Hon. G. Abbott Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ........... 11390 Role of teachers R. Masi J. Kwan Bike to work projects P. Sahota Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ....................................................... 11391 Education funding J. Kwan Hon. T. Christensen J. MacPhail Hon. G. Campbell B.C. Rail privatization process E.

Brenzinger Hon. K. Falcon Health care services in Kimberley W. McMahon Hon. C.

Hansen Tabling Documents.............................................................................................................. .................................................. 11394 Guarantees and indemnities authorized and issued report, fiscal year ended March 31, 2004 Public service pension plan, British Columbia, annual report, 2003 College pension plan, British Columbia, annual report, 2003 Municipal pension plan, British Columbia, annual report, 2003 Teachers pension plan, British Columbia, annual report, 2003 Pension Corporation of British Columbia, annual report, 2003-04 Members of the Legislative Assembly pension plan, annual report, 2003 B.C.

Investment Management Corporation, annual report, 2002-03

Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................. 11394 University Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 60) Hon. S. Bond Hon. R. Thorpe Hon. B. Barisoff Hon. G. Abbott D. Jarvis J. Bray J. MacPhail H. Bloy K. Stewart R. Masi L. Mayencourt Hon. S. Bond Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... ........................................ 11407 Community Living Authority Act (Bill 45) J. Kwan Hon. S. Hagen

11389 TUESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 The House met at 2:04 p.m. Introductions by Members R. Masi: It's my pleasure today to introduce a number of people from the Delta Gateway Society, a community-based non-profit organization helping people with autism for the last 27 years. With us today from the Gateway Society are Kelly Reaburn, Johnny Van Tol, Candace Chittim, Pete Fournier and Danny Perrault. Would the House please make them welcome. [1405] R.

Hawes: It is my pleasure today to introduce 13 students from Meadowridge School in Maple Ridge, which my colleague from Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows and I would argue is the finest independent school in the province. They're here with their teacher, Mr. Parker, to see how the Legislature works and do a tour of the premises. Could the House please make them welcome. M. Hunter: In the gallery visiting the Legislature today are two friends of mine from Nanaimo: Wally and Joan Worth. Would the House please make them welcome. W. McMahon: It's a pleasure today to introduce new caucus legislative assistan ts to you.

We have four new assistants here. They're Aman Dodd, Derek Tryan, Kevin Dixon and Jeremy Walden. I know they're ex- cited to be here working, and we're excited to have them. I ask you all to join me in extending them a warm welcome. Introduction and First Reading of Bills FINANCE STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 H o n . G . C o l l i n s p r e s e n t e d a m e s s a g e f r o m H e r Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Fi- nance Statutes Amendment Act, 2004. Hon. G. Collins: I move the bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. G.

Collins: I'm pleased to introduce the Fi- nance Statutes Amendment Act, 2004, which amends the Ministry of Finance statutes, most notably the Business Corporations Act. The act was brought into force on March 29, 2004. Th e amendments respond to various issues that have come to light since that date. Most of the amendments ar e purely housekeeping and either correct errors or refi ne the application of provi- sions. However, there are a few changes that are more substantive in nature and intend to further streamline the corporate registry practices.

The bill also contains minor technical amendments to the Society Act and Financial Institutions Act, arising out of recent amendments to those statutes, in addition to a minor amendment to the Pension Benefits Standards Act reflecting a recent change in accounting standards. I move the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 69 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. PROPERTY TRANSFER TAX AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 Hon. G.

Collins presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Prop- erty Transfer Tax Amendment Act, 2004. Hon. G. Collins: I move the bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. G. Collins: This bill improves the certainty and fairness of the Property Transfer Tax Act by chang- ing how the tax applies to pre-sold strata units.

As proposed by government on June 22, 2004, in response to communications we received from individuals — and particularly the member for Vancouver-Burrard — the legislation is amended so that all purchasers of pre- sold strata lots will know how much property transfer tax will be payable when they register their purchase at the land titles office. The amendment also ensures that first-time home- buyers of pre-sold strata lots will know with certainty whether or not they will be eligible for the first-time homebuyers exemption at the time they make the pur- chase.

I move that the bill be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 70 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. EXPROPRIATION AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 Hon. G. Plant presented a message from Her Hon- our the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Expropria- tion Amendment Act, 2004. Hon. G. Plant: I move the bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. G. Plant: I'm pleased to introduce Bill 67, the Expropriation Amendment Act.

Bill 67 will provide the

11390 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 Supreme Court of British Columbia with jurisdiction over expropriation and rela ted matters. That jurisdic- tion is currently held by the Expropriation Compensa- tion Board. This bill will dissolve that board. [1410] The Expropriation Compensation Board has a rela- tively low caseload and formal, often protracted pro- ceedings. Its decisions are frequently appealed. Moving the board's jurisdiction to the courts will avoid duplica- tion and will streamline Expropriation Act proceed- ings.

I want to point out that Bill 67 deals only with the jurisdiction of the board. These amendments do not affect the substantive rights or remedies of expropriat- ing authorities such as provincial and local govern- ments, hospitals, school boards or landowners, or any other substantive aspect of current expropriation law. There are transitional provis ions that will ensure that hearings that have already been set by the Expropria- tion Compensation Board or which are in progress will not be affected by these changes.

I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 67 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. LAND TITLE AND SURVEY AUTHORITY ACT Hon. G. Abbott presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Land Title and Survey Authority Act. Hon. G. Abbott: I move the bill be introduced and read for a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. G. Abbott: I'm pleased to introduce Bill 68 today.

The Land Title and Survey Authority Act is a new act designed to establish the land title and survey authority as an independent, not-for-profit corporation responsible for operating the province's land title and survey systems and facilitating the execution of Crown grants. This act is consistent with the government's new- era commitments of operating more efficiently, sup- porting the economy and bringing more certainty to land uses in the province.

This act will establish the authority for the purpose of assuming all of the func- tions of the land title branch, including the operation of the three land title offices. The authority will also as- sume responsibility for the majority of activities now carried out by the surveyor general. This government listened to the concerns of British Columbians regarding the operation of land titles of- fices. We responded by establishing this authority as an excellent way to deliver improved land title office and survey services, including improved timeliness of land title and survey plan registra tion activity.

In so doing, we are enhancing services to private land owners and investors. The proposed legislation is modelled after other acts recently passed to esta blish the Business Practices and Consumer Protection Au thority, the Safety Au- thority and the B.C. Ferry Authority. The legislation incorporates necessary governance and accountability provisions to protect the public interest. Bill 68 is an important step in this government's commitment to efficient, effective service delivery.

I'm pleased to present this bill in the House today, and I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 68 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) ROLE OF TEACHERS R. Masi: Today is World Teachers Day. World Teachers Day is our chance to recognize, celebrate and appreciate all that teachers do. I can remember the primary teacher who gave up many Saturday afternoons to go shopping for those things that helped enrich the wonderful learning envi- ronment in her classroom. I think of the English, French and social studies teachers who face 80 papers to mark almost every Sunday night as well as doing the lesson plans for the week. I know of many athletic coaches who give up many weekends motivating young pe ople to fulfil their po- tential.

I know of band teachers giving early morning rehearsals and arranging road trip concerts to perhaps discover another Diana Krall or Michael Bublé. I think of the grade 5 teacher, with two or three special ed kids in her class, striving to de liver motivating lessons to a difficult age group while k eeping one step ahead of technological changes. I know of drama teachers who spend months work- ing after school and evenings preparing for the annual drama festival, perhaps to discover the next Holly- wood star.

I think of the teac hers in the trades and cu- linary arts who inspire and mentor many young men and women to be a productive and vital

part in our society. [1415] Let's remember, too, that most teachers have fami- lies and households of their own to look after but still find in their hearts the time and compassion to care for and motivate their students towards the goal of becom- ing mature and competent adults. I ask: how many of us here can remember and credit a teacher who has profoundly influenced our lives? I would like to quote Henry Brooks Adams, who was an American historian and grandson of John Quin cy Adams. He said: "A

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11391 teacher affects eternity. He can never tell where his influence stops." J. Kwan: Today I and my colleague from Vancouver- Hastings are also very proud to stand and celebrate World Teachers Day. It is a day for all of us to recog- nize the teachers of B.C. and to let them know how much they're valued and appreciated. Teachers are the stewards of the education system in our society.

They're the people we entrust our chil- dren with every day, the people who help so many of us get to where we are today and guide us through an often challenging and perplexing time in our lives — high school. Teachers at all levels in the system are the indi- viduals who guide our kids through tricky math prob- lems, teach our children the history of this country, coach their soccer teams, sponsor their clubs and chap- erone their dances. B.C.'s teachers are the hard- working and pivotal mentors of the youth of this prov- ince. Their day-to-day effo rts deserve our respect and our thanks.

U n f o r t u n a t e l y , t e a c h e r s o f t h i s p r o v i n c e h a v e n o t seen the respect and apprec iation they deserve from this government. Instead of working with teachers in a collaborative and cooperative manner to meet the chal- lenges of the profession, the government has chosen conflict and confrontation. The government stripped teachers of their right to ha ve a self-governing profes- sion. They were okay with used car dealers governing their own, but not teachers. It took a year of conflict and public pressure to give back to the teachers what the government took away.

The government went as far as to erase a decision of the B.C. Supreme Court to impose their will on B.C.'s educators, making their tough job even tougher. The government forcefully remove d critical protections for students and teachers related to class size, services for special needs students, and specialty services from counsellors, librarians and ESL teachers from collective agreements. These are not the actions of a government that respects, values and appreciates the teachers of B.C.

On this day, World Teachers Day, it is time that this House acknowledges B.C.'s educators and all of the valuable work that they do for our children and our society. BIKE TO WORK PROJECTS P. Sahota: The Bike to Work program started in Victoria, and I'm proud to report that our government has embraced this idea as well. Last month the Minister of Management Services announced that the province would be helping the Bike to Work movement by go- ing B.C.-wide. In addition to reducing pollution, stud- ies show that people who bike to work are healthier, happier and more productive.

With funding of $24,000 from several ministries, Bike to Work Victoria has created a 53-page planning manual and a one-day workshop for communities that want to replicate the program. On September 22, I was in Kelowna when Mayor Walter Gray announced that Kelowna will be the first out of the gate, holding a workshop on October 30 as a prelude to their first-ever Bike to Work Week next spring. I understand that Van- couver plans to do the same, and I hope the city of Burnaby will also do the same. I understand that other cities in Alberta and Ontario are also hoping to repli- cate this program.

Here in the capital, thou gh, with seed funding from the government, the capital regional district's traffic commission has spearheaded more than two dozen projects, which are making our roads safer. Three of those projects, including the structure of the commis- sion itself, were showcased at the biennial world con- ference on safety and injury prevention in Vienna, Aus- tria. One of the commission's projects is a free audio CD for seniors who want to learn how to fine-tune their driving techniques.

Now the Ministry of Public Safety is teaming up with ICBC to make that CD available free to seniors throughout B.C. Adding to all this, the Ministry of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services has created for the UBCM a $100,000 fund to help municipalities set up their own traffic safety commissions. These initiatives will make our citizens safer, healthier and more pro- ductive. I'm proud to support them. Well done — to all the folks who started all this with the Victoria Bike to Work Week. [1420] Mr. Speaker: That concludes members' statements. Oral Questions EDUCATION FUNDING J.

Kwan: Just today, we see another story about students losing dedicated teachers because of B.C. Lib- eral budgets. Richard Cook , a counsellor and coach in the Saanich school district, is gone because Liberals are cutting funding to school districts. The ministry says it is all about declining enrolment, but parents know it is because this government just doesn't care and has cut funding to the classroom. To the Premier: why is the government spending millions on television ads extolling the record of what the government has done and what a great job they're doing to education, when te achers like Mr.

Cook aren't in the classroom where they belong? Hon. T. Christensen: It's interesting that the mem- ber refers to that

article be cause I read it, too, this morning. It referred specifically to the fact that in the Saanich school district, they do have the challenge of declining enrolment. They ar e actually projecting their enrolment to decline by 23 percent between now and 2010. Let's face that this is a significant challenge in the province and that means that… Interjections.

11392 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Hon. T. Christensen: …school districts are going to need to adjust. But I also know this in Saanich. I actually had the opportunity to visit Cordova Bay Elementary School this morning and speak with teachers there. I know they have incredibly dedicated teachers throughout Saanich. It's always sad when we may lose a teacher for one reason or another, but we have exceptional teach- ers in Saanich, and we have exceptional teachers in every school in this province. Mr.

Speaker: Member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant has a supplementary. J. Kwan: You know what? This government loves to duck responsibility for its cuts. It loves to deny the reality that parents are facing. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. J. Kwan: It loves to deny the reality that parents and teachers are facing. The fact is that they broke their new-era promise to increase funding to education, but they can't be trusted. They can't be trusted. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order. J. Kwan: Let me ask the minister a very simple question.

When you account for inflation and downloading, how much has funding to education been cut since this B.C. Liberal government took of- fice? Hon. T. Christensen: The fact is that funding on a per-pupil basis and funding in straight dollars is higher now than it has ever been in this province. We know the members opposite have an interest- ing record on their accounting, but the member can look at the public accounts just as every member of this House can, and they will see that the dollars are higher than they've ever been.

More importantly, as I visited school districts in every single part of this province and schools in every one of those districts, what I've seen is that those dollars are being put to exceptionally good use and teachers are working hard to meet the needs of our students. It simply provides confidence to me every time I'm in a school that we have one of the most exceptional school systems in the world. J. Kwan: It sounds like the minister has been watching too many of the government's ads on TV. Maybe, just maybe, he should consult…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

Hon. members, let us hear the question. J. Kwan: Maybe the minister should consult the Chartered Accountants of B.C. Here's what they had to say in a report issued just last week, last Tuesday: "When inflation and additional costs downloaded to school districts are taken into account, per-student funding will in fact be 3.5 percent less than in 2001." [1425] Again to the minister: does the Minister of Educa- tion accept the findings of the chartered accountants that education has been cut — yes or no? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order. Hon. T.

Christensen: About three and a half years ago we came into government. This is my first term in government. Lo and behold, I think all of us on this side of the House were incredibly surprised to see the fiscal nightmare that faced this province. We have worked exceptionally hard over the last three and a half years to get the economy back on track, to get this province moving in the right direction. We're investing more money in public education now in this province, because the province has the financial wherewithal to do it. Over the next three years… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please.

Hon. T. Christensen: …you will see that at a mini- mum, an additional $313 million is being allocated to the Ministry of Education budget. Our job is to make sure that those dollars make it into classrooms to make a difference to students here in British Columbia. J. MacPhail: Well, isn't that interesting? The shiny little Minister of Education won't answer the question. The chartered accountants say there's been a real cut of 3.5 percent in education. Here's what this government's logic is. They dump buckets of new costs on parents, teachers and school boards.

Then they fill a little tiny thimble of coins and give it back and say: "Oh, we've increased funding for education." That's their logic. I'll take the chartered accountants' logic any day. The gov- ernment is blowing.… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. Hon. members, let us hear the question, please. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. J. MacPhail: The chartered accountants say there is a real cut of 3.5 percent, an d the Minister of Finance is

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11393 clapping like a seal. That's interesting. The government is blowing millions of tax dollars to spin fiction into fact. This year the school boards have lost $35 million in grants to cope with the global budgets that this gov- ernment imposed on school districts. According to Statistics Canada, B.C. has the second worst record in the country in improving student- teacher ratios. Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. J. MacPhail: Again to the minister…. Mr. Speaker: Hon. member, time for the question, please. J. MacPhail: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Again to the minister: will he stand up and admit (1) that the chartered accountants are right, and (2) what parents, teachers, stu- dents and the chartered accountants already know — that since taking office, the B.C. Liberals have taken the ham- mer to education dollars going into the classroom? Hon. T. Christensen: I find it interesting that finally the member is listening to the chartered accountants of the province. I just wish for the people of British Co- lumbia that she'd started li stening about a decade ago, and we'd be in a much better spot.

The fact is that we have approximately 30,000… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Hon. T. Christensen: …fewer students in the pub- lic education system than we did five years ago. This year we've provided an additional $85 million…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. We can- not hear the answer. Please proceed. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order. Hon. T.

Christensen: For the 2004-05 school year we've provided an additional $85 million in grants to school districts, and I was very pleased about a month ago to add an additional $10 million to allow those school districts to focus on textbooks. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a supplementary question. [1430] J. MacPhail: Maybe he actually wants to go into the schools and talk about that ten million bucks for school books. Here's a rare document. This document would get a million bucks on eBay. You can't find it on the Internet anymore, Mr. Speaker. Isn't that interesting?

A million bucks it would get on eBay. It 's a question of trust with this government — trust that the government broke its promise to enhance education funding in this book, trust in a government that broke its promises to par- ents and children, trust in a government that can't tell the truth about what they've really done. Before the last election, the Liberals promised — I know you don't know this book anymore — to increase funding to education. Today we know they've cut per- pupil funding. They weren't telling the truth then; they're advertising fiction no w.

Why does the Minister of Education think we should trust him now? Hon. G. Campbell: Education is important to every- body in this House, and th ere are a couple of things that are important. Number one is investing in educa- tion. Number two is getting results for education. We've actually increased the investment over the next three years by $313 million. By 2006 we will have invested $1.3 billion in capital infrastructure improve- ments across the province. But more important than that, we said we would take those additional dollars and focus them on students and teachers and achieve- ment in the classroom.

What's happened? We've watched as the number of grade 7 students meeting or exceeding expectations in writing is up 11 percent in British Columbia. We've watched as the number of aboriginal students that ar e exceeding expectations is up by 4 percent. We've watched as 85 percent of the number of grade 7 ESL students are now meeting or exceeding expectations. That's up 14 percent. This government is committed to our students, it's committed to our teachers, and it's committed to our parents. We're committing resources to make sure we have the best education system in Canada. B.C. RAIL PRIVATIZATION PROCESS E.

Brenzinger: My question is to the Premier. My question concerns the conduct of the Premier prior to the sale of B.C. Rail to CN. On November 21, 2003, CP Rail wrote a letter to the Premier stating that the gov- ernment's handling of the B. C. Rail sale was extremely prejudiced. My question to the Premier is: will he con- firm that he did in fact meet with Paul Tellier, the CEO of CN, prior to the RFP being issued regarding the sale of B.C. Rail and that am ongst the matters discussed was the final purchase price the government was look- ing for? Hon. K.

Falcon: I think what that member ought to be very excited about is that the final acquisition was $1 billion — a billion dollars that we can now reinvest back in the northern communities, a billion dollars that we will see improve transportation; $135 million for the northern development fund, controlled by northerners for the benefit of northerners; containerization at the port of Prince Rupert, which will create hundreds of

11394 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 new jobs; a new wheel shop in Prince George — lots of opportunities right across the province of British Co- lumbia, because this is a great partnership deal for the province. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. HEALTH CARE SERVICES IN KIMBERLEY W. McMahon: My question is to the Minister of Health Services. Changes to the health care system in Kimberley, and in particular the closure of the Kimber- ley Hospital, have been difficult for many of my con- stituents.

A few months ag o the city of Kimberley, along with the interior heal th authority, reached an agreement through which a primary care centre would be established at the site of the old hospital. I'm won- dering if the minister can tell us and my constituents what services the new health care centre in Kimberley will offer patients and when it will start functioning. [1435] Hon. C. Hansen: First of all, I'd like to thank the member for Columbia River–Revelstoke for helping to facilitate a meeting two weeks ago with the mayor of Kimberley. I thought it was a very productive meeting.

Certainly, there was some very good news coming out of Kimberley around delivery of health services. I'm pleased to advise the House that the interior health authority has committed to establishing a new primary care centre in Kimberley. Renovations are about to start in the very near future, and I can also report that it is expected that that facility will be open and serving the residents of Kimberley very early in the new year. [End of question period.] V. Anderson: My question is to the Minister of Management Services. Mr. Speaker: Excuse me. The bell terminated ques- tion period, hon. member.

Tabling Documents Hon. G. Collins: I have the honour to present the guarantees and indemnitie s authorized and issued report for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2004, in ac- cordance with the Financial Administration Act, sec- tion 72(8).

I also have the privilege to present a number of reports from the various pension plans: the public ser- vice pension plan, British Columbia, 2003 annual re- port; the college pension plan, British Columbia, 2003 annual report; the municipal pension plan 2003 annual report; the teachers pension plan, British Columbia, 2003 annual report; the Pension Corporation of British Columbia annual report 2003-04; the Members of the Legislative Assembly pension plan, British Columbia, 2003 annual report; as well as the annual report of the B.C. Investment Management Corporation for 2002-03. Orders of the Day Hon. G.

Collins: I call second reading of Bill 60. Second Reading of Bills UNIVERSITY AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 Hon. S. Bond: I move Bill 60 now be read a second time. On March 17 of this year, the Premier announced that the new Okanagan camp us of the University of British Columbia would have a separate senate to gov- ern local affairs. As well, the Premier committed to expanding the university's board of governors to pro- vide for representation from the Okanagan region.

The new university and college are part of the province's commitment to add 25,000 public post- secondary spaces by 2010 and to help ensure that any high school graduate with a 75 percent average gains access to a B.C. post-secondary institution.

When government consulted with stakeholders regarding the proposed UB C Okanagan university model, one of the things that was most important to those we talked to was the ability of the region to actu- ally guide the development of the university to meet its very unique needs. [1440] When the Premier announced the formation of UBC Okanagan, we promised th at a distinct senate for the Okanagan region would be part of this new univer- sity.

Currently, under the exis ting University Act, each university is allowed only one senate, which is respon- sible for making decisions regarding the academic gov- ernance of the institution. The act very clearly details the exact composition of the boards.

I'm really pleased today to be able to say that the changes being made to the University Act by Bill 60 will allow the University of British Columbia to estab- lish an additional autonomous senate for the Okanagan, which is a major step towards granting the people of the Okanagan th eir own full university di- rected by an independent senate to meet the needs that are important and the prioriti es that are significant in the southern interior of th e province.

The amendments being introduced today will also expand the UBC board of governors to guar antee local representation for the Okanagan campus of the university on the overall UBC board of governors. But we've also done some other things in terms of the UBC Okanagan model to en sure that the people of the Okanagan have the abilit y to direct and influence the shape of this new university. We've appointed two advisory councils, one that will serve the UBC Okanagan component and one that will serve the Okanagan College. This is an incredible opportunity for students and their fam ilies in the Okanagan, and

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11395 we are absolutely thrilled with the new options that will be available in that part of the province. Today Bill 60 also makes two changes to the Uni- versity Act which will help in terms of deregulation. These two changes involve re ducing the red tape sur- rounding the disposition of university lands and grant- ing the powers of a natural person to the public univer- sities that are governed by this act. As I mentioned in my introductory remarks, the first amendment is intended to establish a second sen- ate for the University of British Columbia.

In addition, a series of other amendments will ensure that we have other flexibility for institutions in our province. When we look at the second change in terms of the effective local representation on the board of governors for the University of British Columbia, we wanted to propose an amendment to provide for an expanded board for that university.

This will ensure that the re- gional interests of the Okan agan are considered wher- ever the board exercises its powers and will fulfil the commitment that the Premier made to provide a high- quality education facility in the Okanagan that, first and foremost, considers regional interests. The amendments that we are making in terms of deregulation will change th e approval requirement for the disposition of land from the Lieutenant-Governor- in-Council to the Minister of Advanced Education. In addition, the University Act will be amended to grant the universities with the powers of a natural person.

The University Act current ly requires Lieutenant- Governor-in-Council approval before a university makes any disposition of land. This is an unnecessarily lengthy approval process fo r routine procedures. Bill 60 will amend the University Act to require that only the Minister of Advanced Education needs to approve the disposition. This reduction will streamline the dis- position process while maintaining the current gov- ernment accountability framework. Overall, the amendment will serve to simplify the administration of a routine procedure.

In addition, as global competition increases, uni- versities in British Columbia have been seeking inno- vative approaches to their operations — for example, initiatives that employ endowed land as a vehicle for revenue-generation. The universities currently main- taining these innovations are hindered by their lack of autonomy as a natural person, while universities in other provinces experience such autonomy. To ad- dress this, these amendments will give the universi- ties the powers of a natural person.

The granting of these powers would be consistent with the current practice of universities in other provinces, and it would be in line with the tr end to give universities and their governing boards greater autonomy to manage their affairs. This power will also provide universities with addi- tional flexibility in their day-to-day operations.

In addi- tion, the change would ease current restrictions on the ability of public universities to pursue new opportuni- ties and would allow them to be more responsive and more competitive on a national and international level. [1445] In conclusion, the amendments being made by Bill 60 to the senate provisions, the establishment of the council of senates and the expansion of the board of governors will set up the framework for the expansion of UBC into the Okanagan. The government is fulfilling our commitment to provide a high-quality educational facility to what is currently an underserved area of the province.

The proposed amen dments to approval re- quirements for the disposition of land and the granting of powers of the natural person will serve to streamline the operations of our univ ersities while maintaining the current accountability frameworks. Many of the limitations placed on universities were enacted at a time when the scope and complexity of university operations was much more limited. The proposed amendments will aid in deregulation and recognize the modern status of universities in our province by giving them a more appropriate level of autonomy.

These amendments fall within our three- year service plan to cut red tape and build a more effi- cient and integrated post-s econdary education system. They are consistent with our government's new-era commitments to remove unnecessary legislation and regulations that impede the efficient and effective de- livery of services. Most impo rtantly, they signal our confidence in the ability of institutions to make wise management decisions and to operate in a way that puts students first. That is a principle that is the first and of most significant importance to my ministry and to this government. Hon. R.

Thorpe: I'm pleased to rise in the House today to talk in support of this bill. Before I get to the specifics of the bill, I would just like to say thanks to the Premier and to the Minister of Advanced Education for the tremendous commitment they've shown to the people of the Okanagan in British Columbia. You know, over the next few years, up to the year 2010, we will be creating 55 new spaces for post- secondary education in the Okanagan. That follows as part of our commitment — the Premier's commitment — to the largest single incr ease in commitments to ac- cess for students of 25,000 seats.

That is the largest sin- gle commitment in British Columbia for 40 years. These new seats in the Okanagan will take our enrolment capabilities from 6,600 to 12,100 opportunity spaces for our students of tomorrow so that they can get their education closer to home in the Okanagan and the southern interior. Over this period of time our government will invest in Okanagan College and UBC Okanagan over $100 million in capital funding, plus an additional $52 mil- lion in additional annual operating funds for these two institutions.

When we are done, it is estimated that these two fine post-secondary institutions will generate $500 million in economic bene fits to the Okanagan — up from $117 million that is being generated today by Okanagan University College. When I talk about Okanagan University College, let me just say thanks to all of those who have made this

11396 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 institution truly a very important institution in the en- tire Okanagan. It has served the purpose, but it is now time for us to move forward with this new vision of Okanagan College and UBC Okanagan. But again, I want to thank those who work so diligently in making sure that OUC provided opportunities for our stu- dents. One of the great things about UBC Okanagan is the tremendous international recognition and credibility that this facility will attract, both for faculty and for research investment.

The new Okanagan College will offer expanded training opportunities in what is cur- rently the OUC's KLO campus in Kelowna, but also in Revelstoke, Armstrong, Vernon, Salmon Arm, Sum- merland, Penticton, Oliver and Osoyoos. [1450] To show our government's commitment under the leadership of the Premier and our Minister of Ad- vanced Education, this year 's students at OUC were able to see their tuition decreased by $1,000 — again providing a benefit to students and families in the Okanagan.

But this bill is about a government with a vision for post-secondary education, a government that made commitments on March 17, 2004, and a govern- ment now fulfilling those commitments. We said we would expand the board of governors to provide rep- resentation from the Okanagan. We're doing that. We said we would allow and provide for more senate rep- resentation. We are now doing that to ensure that the voices, the expertise and the knowledge of the Okanagan are there to re present the needs of the southern interior of British Columbia. This is good news. This is positive news.

You know, from time to time the members of the opposi- tion…. I would be very interested to hear what they have to say on this bill, be cause in the past when this was announced, their leader, who is not in this House, was against this announcement — was against the ex- pansion of post-secondary opportunities and seats in the Okanagan. I know it is hard for people to separate the political rhetoric.

Last Saturday I wa s at an event in the South Okanagan — the Minister of Water, Land and Air Pro- tection's riding — and I happened to be acting as an auctioneer to raise funds for wine education in our post-secondary education facilities in the Okanagan. We did raise over $24,000. I'm sure that didn't have much to do with the auctio neer, Mr. Speaker, before you say that. The fact of the matter is that it gave me the oppor- tunity to stand and chat with a young lady who was working at the event serving beverages to the clientele. I asked her where she was going to school. Her name is Robyn.

To me this sort of crystallized it all. She said: "I'm currently going to OUC." I said: "What are you going to do after that?" She said: "Rick, I'm so excited. I'm now going to have the opportunity to go to UBC Okanagan. All my life I dreamed of the opportunity to go to UBC, but I never thought I would have that op- portunity. Now I'm going to have that opportunity in the Okanagan." So when it is all said and done, we should actually be focused on the students — the students of today, the students of tomorrow.

When we can create the oppor- tunity for those students to have access, whether it be to Okanagan College or to UBC Okanagan — whatever they choose, whatever field they want to pursue — t h e y c a n d o i t c l o s e r t o h o m e a n d b e c l o s e r t o t h e i r families. I believe that is going to create opportunities in the Okanagan. To Robyn and all of the other students of the Okanagan: thanks to the vision of the Premier, the hard work of the minister responsible for advanced educa- tion, Bill 60 makes this a reality for the students of the Okanagan. I say good on you. Hon. B.

Barisoff: It is a great privilege to rise in the House to support Bill 60 and the fact that on March 17, 2004, the Premier of this province along with the Minis- ter of Advanced Education made a great, bold move to advance education in the Okanagan Valley. In 1965 we had roughly 54,000 people in the valley. Today we have roughly a little over 300,000 people in the valley, so the decision to allow UBC Okanagan to move into the valley gives us two great facilities. It gives us UBC Okanagan righ t in the Okanagan, and it makes Okanagan College one of the biggest colleges outside the lower mainland.

I'm truly excited about what's happening. The Min- ister of Advanced Education ha s put into this bill that we would actually have a separate senate in the Okanagan, which gives us a huge, huge advantage in allowing a lot of the decisions that we want to make right in the Okanagan Valley to be made there. What we're doing is combining the great facility of the Okanagan College and th e great facility of UBC Okanagan. Tying the two together — I don't want to say it — we're ultimately going to have some of the best education that we're goin g to have certainly in the province.

Again, a lot of cred it goes to the Premier. It was a vision of his, along with the Minister of Ad- vanced Education. Together the two of them, along with all the MLAs from the Okanagan, made this dream a reality. [1455] I know, as my colleague the Minister of Provincial Revenue from Okanagan-Westside has just mentioned, in talking to a lot of the young people in the Okanagan, they're truly excited about what's going to happen.

I'm truly excited as an MLA for the South Okanagan, knowing what's going to happen with UBC Okanagan, knowing what's going to happen with Okanagan College and the fact that we're going to have these two great facilities in the Okanagan. Again, I want to give cr edit where credit is due — to all the people who came before us who, when they started Okanagan College, tu rned it into Okanagan University College. Now we've gone back to having UBC Okanagan and Okanagan College — two great facilities right here…. Not right here in the Okanagan, but if I was in the Okanagan, that's what I'd be saying.

I know that the Minister of Advanced Education has

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11397 some big announcements that are coming for the south end of the valley in the next few days. I'll be part of that, and again I'm truly excited about what's hap- pened. Hon. G. Abbott: It is a great plea sure for me to rise and speak today as the member for Shuswap, because Salmon Arm has long had one of the centres — earlier as Okanagan College, more recently as Okanagan University College.

I really do want to say a few words of appreciation, particularly to the Minis- ter of Advanced Education and to the Premier, for their leadership in bringing about one of the really, really exciting educational developments in British Columbia in a long time. The change that was announ ced, the creation of the new UBC Okanagan and the new Okanagan College, was part of the announcement of 25,000 new seats for education — student spaces for post-secondary educa- tion across B.C. by 2010. That is a great step forward.

It is going to ensure that my kids and my grandkids and students across British Columbia have the opportunity to access the post-secondary education that is so impor- tant to their success. The change to Okanagan University College is, I think, special to me for a number of reasons, in part because I was a student there at one time. Also, be- cause I had the opportunity to teach there for a long time, I know and love that institution well. I think this is just a tremendous step forward.

It is going to provide great educational opportunities, really unparalleled educational opportunities for young people in the Shuswap and the North Okanagan as they move for- ward with their education. They'll have the opportuni- ties not only at the Okanagan College centres in Salmon Arm and Armstrong and Vernon and Rev- elstoke, and so on, in the no rth end of the valley, not to mention the south end of the valley. They'll have those opportunities at Okanagan College.

They will also, of course, have the opportunity to ladder into UBC Okanagan at Kelowna and become a part of that great educational institution, the University of British Columbia. They'll be able to do it right in the valley — a tremendous change. An institution that has also had a great announce- ment in the last few months is the Thompson Rivers University. University College of the Cariboo is going to become Thompson Rivers University, and of course there will be a lot of students from the Shuswap who likely will be going to Kamloops to attend that now much-improved post-secondary institution as well.

I was first a student, Mr. Speaker — and this will astonish you — at Okanagan College back in 1970. L. Mayencourt: No. Hon. G. Abbott: Yes, 1970-71. That's correct. That was in the early years of the Salmon Arm centre of Okanagan College. I returned there after my graduate and post-graduate years down at UBC and UVic to teach at Okanagan College, which became Okanagan University College later on. I had the opportunity to teach there, in fact, until 1996 when I became part of this great institution here via the 1996 election. [1500] I know the institution very well.

Okanagan Univer- sity College was a great teaching university college. People had absolutely exceptional teachers there and a great range of programs, whether it was academic, vocational, technical. Studen ts in the Okanagan were able to access great educational opportunities in the full range at their local campus centres. What we've achieved through the creation of UBC Okanagan, through the new Okanagan College, is to really build on the strengths of all of those institutions — Okanagan College, Okanag an University College, the University of British Columbia. [G.

Trumper in the chair.] I think this is just an exceptional example of the kind of partnerships that can so markedly improve educational opportunities and so markedly improve the prospects for young British Columbians — particu- larly in the North Okanagan, the Shuswap and, I guess, up and down the Okanagan — as they are going to enjoy this very special, wonderful educational oppor- tunity. Again, I thank the minister for this, and of course, I join her in support ing this bill and wish her the best of success. D.

Jarvis: This act — Bill 60, University Amend- ment Act of 2004 — is drafted with the intent to make the University of British Columbia's campuses, both in Vancouver and now in the Okanagan, each have a voice in the administration and operation by expand- ing their board of governors. Also, this bill gives the universities more flexibility and independence in their day-to-day operations. Another university college that has satellite cam- puses, as well, is one that I would like to describe to you, and I would be remiss if I didn't take this oppor- tunity to do so.

That is the fact that in the heart of my riding of North Vancouver–Seymour we are most for- tunate to have Capilano College, a first-rate post- secondary institution that has satellite campuses in both Squamish and up the Sunshine Coast. I under- stand that almost 50 percent of all North Shore gradu- ates in our high schools choose full-time study and attend Capilano College for reasons that are as far- ranging as the programs they offer, such as prepara- tory courses, university transfer courses, business and management studies, creative and applied arts, and programs like those — just to name a few.

The current enrolment in Capilano College is al- most 7,200 and boasts 45 percent university transfers and another 45 percent that are in career and voca- tional programs. Just in ca se you thought that only North Shore residents attend, they are made up of 44 percent of our student body from the North Shore. Twenty-eight percent of the students come from Van- couver and Burnaby, and the remaining 28 percent

11398 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 come from all over British Columbia, Canada and, in fact, the world. Capilano College has one of the highest university transfer rates of any college in British Columbia, with most of the students going on to full-time studies at the University of British Columbia. The college is never stagnant, adding a broader range of programs to its roster every year. Just this last August my colleague the Minister of Advanced Education announced the new program under the B.C. tourism and hospitality education and training consortium.

This is a very forward-thinking program headed by Capilano College and Vancouver Community College. It works in partnership with each other and other post-secondary colleges throughout the province. The goal is to ensure world-class services and support training for the ex pansion of tourism before, during and after the 2010 Olympics. [1505] For example, in the tourism end of it they also do a very exceptional course in tourism, and they actually have graduate students in Southeast Asia now.

As a matter of fact, I had dinner with some people from Vietnam and the Premier of the most northern province i n V i e t n a m t h a t a b u t s C h i n a . T h e y w e r e v e r y e x c i t e d about the fact of their association with Capilano Col- lege and to promote tourism throughout Vietnam. Another program which Capilano hopes to spear- head is a film industry training program, something that I will be talking about in this House in a few weeks in a private member's statement.

This is another example of the Capilano administration looking to the future, seeing the niches in the current and future la- bour market that can be filled by our young British Columbians and giving them a little bit of an edge over the jurisdictions not only in B.C. but the world job market. Another program announced this year is the first nations tourism management co-op program, which the provincial government funded for $1.4 million; $75,000 of it was going to our Capilano College.

This project will be a key component in delivering Capi- lano's First Nations Tourism Management Co- operative diploma program, enabling students to apply the skills learned through the program in a real work environment in hotels, resort s, adventure and cultural tourism — first nation attractions, conferences and special events. The program was developed in consul- tation with the Squamish and Mount Currie first na- tions and the Musqueam Indian bands. It's upon this success that I support fully Bill 60.

The government's biggest success, I believe, is the ex- pansion of post-secondary institutions across British Columbia. Some 25,000 are expected by the year 2010. Therefore, I thank you for the opportunity to speak to this bill. J. Bray: I t i s m y d e f i n i t e p l e a s u r e t o s t a n d i n s u p - port of Bill 60, University Amendment Act, 2004. As we've heard other speakers and the Minister of Advanced Education lay out, this fulfils the last admin- istrative function for the new university, UBC Okanagan, that was announced in the spring.

I think that this actually alludes to a much larger issue, and it's one of the ac hievements of this govern- m e n t t h a t I a m m o s t p r o u d o f b e c a u s e i t r e p r e s e n t s some of the larger things that we've tried to do since we were elected in 2001. One of the things that we promised to do with British Columbians was to go out in meaningful ways to re-engage legislative commit- tees, to go out and listen to British Columbians, hear their priorities and then to come back and actually en- act good public policy to ac hieve the goals of British Columbians.

Yet again, we have another example of where that has come about. It's important to know that in 2003, the prebudget consultation process was enacted, as it is every year, and the Select Standing Committee on Fi- nance travelled around listening to British Columbian communities in every region of this province.

One of the things that struck the committee was that although health care is always an important topic and K-to-12 is an important topic, the pr edominant theme that came forward from business, labour, rural communities, urban communities, the labour unions, the colleges and universities themselves — from every group — was the need to reinvest in post-secondary education.

Before I go into the details of the Finance Commit- tee's report on those findings, it's important for us to understand where we came from in the nineties, be- cause the Leader of the Opposition is sitting there listening to this debate, not really participating, and there's no wonder. They talk a great game about the importance of post-secondary education, but they only had one word for the way they managed in ten years post-secondary education in this province — one word. The word was "freeze." They figured if they just freeze everything, things will work well. What did the NDP do? They froze capital budgets.

They told universities: "You can't build. You can't meet the demand in your communities. You can't build anything. No new seats." [1510] Now, they froze tuitions, but they also froze the money that was going to support universities and colleges. The result? The NDP's decade of the nineties led to a decline in enrolment in British Columbia. When the rest of the country was seeing increases, in B.C. we saw a decline in enrolment. In fact, fewer students were able to get in. The reason?

Well, uni- versity presidents, college presidents and boards of governors all said to the NDP, year after year: "You are restricting our ability to meet the demand we have in our communities. By freezing tuitions, by freezing capital budgets and by freezing dialogue we are actually reducing the number of students who can attend." The other result? As we all know, tuition is but one component of the cost of going to school. A larger component is transportation, food, rent, laundry, travel to attend institutions. By restricting and freezing all of those budgets, universities were not able to provide the

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11399 full spectrum of courses necessary, often meaning stu- dents had to come a fifth and even a sixth year in order to achieve their degrees, diplomas or certificates. The result? The small amount th ey saved in the freeze was eaten up within the first month of the extra year they had to attend, to go to university. That was the policy of post-secondary education for the NDP — to just freeze everything. The result was fewer students able to get in, spending more money, taking longer to get their degrees in institutions unable to meet the demand.

What we heard last year in the Finance Committee were pleas from communities, from labour, from busi- ness, from small towns and large towns to please look at post-secondary education as the kind of investment that will improve lives, improve communities, improve the economy, improve health. Madam Speaker, I just want to read one of our main recommendations from last year's report: "In terms of future program spending, we strongly en- dorse the public's preference for more funding for the public post-secondary system, particularly to tackle access issues.

We believe there must be more opportu- nities for British Columbians with the appropriate competencies to access our post-secondary opportuni- ties, be they provincial colleges and universities or pri- vate sector training institutions. As well, the province as a whole benefits from having a more educated workforce." In our specific recommendations, No. 7 specifically, our recommendation as a Finance Committee was that the government provide additional funds in future years for post-secondary education as they become available — fairly clear-cut, fairly obvious. So what did we announce in the throne speech?

Twenty-five thou- sand additional post-secondary spaces right across this province — the most aggressive expansion of post- secondary education in 40 years. Now, that didn't just come out of nowhere. That came out of British Columbians speaking to the Fi- nance Committee and this government and the Minis- ter of Advanced Education and the Premier listening to the people of British Columbia. That is how this gov- ernment has operated.

Bill 60 actually is the implementation of some of the benefits that have gone to the Okanagan Valley to look at aviation sciences, to look at health sciences, to look at university arts degrees, engi neering. That is what our commitment has done. Now, it was interesting that that's what British Co- lumbians said to this government. That's what the Fi- nance Committee said to this Legislature. When the announcement was made in the spring, what was Carole James and the NDP's response? Oh, they were against it. They didn't wa nt a university in the Okanagan. Stunning.

British Columbians clearly wanted expansion, British Columbians clearly wanted investment, but the NDP said: "Oh no. That's not a g o o d i d e a . W e d o n ' t w a n t t h a t . " W e d o t h i n g s d i f f e r - ently here on the government side. We listen to British Columbians' priorities, we act on British Columbians' priorities, and we deliver on British Columbians' pri- orities. Bill 60 is a continuation of that promise and that delivery. As a result of the changes we've made just this year to post-secondary education, what are some of the out- comes? The NDP only focus on inputs.

They figure that if they freeze budgets and run away and turtle, some- how things will magically happen. But they don't actu- ally look at what happens at the other end. British Co- lumbians told us what was happening: lower enrol- ment, less access, longer time to graduate, fewer pro- gram options. [1515] What are our achievemen ts in three years? Well, enrolment is up. In fact, it is up and leading the coun- try — yet one more indication that B.C. is back. We're leading the way.

Here's another thing that 's important with respect to how we've allowed universities and colleges to actu- ally make decisions based on their community needs, their student needs, their faculty needs. By letting them operate in a more autonomous fashion and getting out of their way, universities an d colleges in this province have gone out and partnered with the private sector, with other foundations, with other institutions to create creative ways to provide additional student financial aid to their own students.

We lead the country in the increase in bursaries and scholarships available to stu- dents from institutions in this province. That's because we got out of the way and allowed institutions to make those partnerships, without dictating every last thing. By allowing capital expansion to occur, we've signalled to business, to the communiti es and to the foundations that we will support post-secondary education today, tomorrow and for a generation to come and that their investment will leverage great benefits for the students that attend in the communities right across the prov- ince.

There's another issue that our expansion of 25,000 spaces will deal with. As we know and have read in the papers, one of the other results of the NDP's freezing- and-turtling policy for post-secondary education was that the entrance level for students to be able to get into university was rising and rising and rising, literally to the point where an A-plus might not be good enough to get into university. This Premier and this Minister of Advanced Educa- tion have a vision. It's a simple vision, but it's a vision that's got my community in Victoria very excited.

It's the vision that any student who works hard and who attains a B average should be able to enter university and continue their studies should they so choose. That is a vision. Now we're doing the things that implement that vision, that actually make it a reality: 25,000 new spaces, the University of British Columbia in Kelowna, the Thompson Rivers Univer sity in Kamloops. These are ways that we're achieving those very goals. Already, in one year since the announcement in the throne speech, we're seeing at the University of Victo- ria that the entrance level is starting to decline.

Several hundred students are now going to UVic this year that

11400 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 would not have been able to go last year, and that will continue as we continue to bring new spaces on line between now and the year 2010. That means a student that works hard in their community and gets a B average can go to university in their community. They can st ay closer to home. They can pursue their own dreams. Do you know who bene- fits from that kind of vi sion? Certainly the student does. The student's family be nefits; the province bene- fits; our communities benefi t. That individual's fam- ily….

As they go on to earn several thousand dollars a year more because of their post-secondary education, their family benefits, which means the next generation benefits. That's what a vision is all about. What the Minister of Ad vanced Education has done is taken that vision and st arted to implement it in a sustainable, long-term way to the benefit of faculty, researchers, students and communities, because we recognize that colleges and universities are critical parts of the social and economic fabric of communities. They aren't just a bunch of buildings with glass and bricks.

In many cases they are one of the heartbeats of a community. When they're st rong, when they're sup- ported, when they're able to expand and when they're able to be flexible and meet the needs of their commu- nity, they enhance the community for everybody, whether they attend or not. On the Finance Committee this year we were at Thompson Rivers University the day they actually made the announcement. I can tell you, the atmosphere in that facility was electric. People were excited about the fact that they were a ttending a university. They were dreaming their own dr eams.

The university, the faculty, were dreaming about new research opportuni- ties, ways in which they can focus their research on areas that are critical for the Kamloops, Shuswap, Okanagan and South Chilcotin area in forestry, in tour- ism. These are exciting things. [1520] Another important thing about our vision for our post-secondary education that the Premier announced a few years ago and that the Minister of Advanced Education is helping to de liver is a $134 million in- vestment in the life sciences initiative.

Now, what that really means is we recogniz ed and we heard, when we were in opposition as well as in government, the need to increase the number of medical students that we have in the province. We also knew that fully 75 per- cent of people who train in a particular location will stay in that location after graduation. When the NDP were in government, they heard the same message. They didn't do anything. We have doubled the number of spaces for medical students in this province.

In three years we have built the facilities now at the University of Northern British Columbia and at the University of Victoria to train physicians. In UNBC they'll specialize in rural northern remote medicine, a critical shortage that we've heard about for years. We're meeting that need. Those first students have entered school this year. At UVic doctors will be training and specializing in gerontology — again, a critical factor in our health care system as we deal with an aging population and the tsunami of the baby boomers as they enter their elder years.

That $134 million is going to translate into better health care. It's going to translate into more doctors, and it's going to translate into better research, not just at UBC but at the University of Victoria and University of Northern British Columbia. Those are dynamic changes that benefit communi ties, benefit physicians and benefit health care. It's important for us to realize that by listening to British Columbians through the Finance Committee, by developing a vision and a pl an and by executing that plan, we are benefiting studen ts right across this prov- ince. We were in Fort St.

John earlier this month, and they were incredibly excite d about some of the oppor- tunities in their college. We've heard from every com- munity we went to about how pleased they are that they're getting additional sp aces and the plans and the ideas that they have for those spaces and the kind of students that they're going to be able to attract into their communities. That's righ t: attract into their com- munities — and not just their own communities. They're now becoming centres of excellence for people in the surrounding area. Terrace is another example.

We toured the new facility being built in Prince Rupert that will provide up to 400 spaces for students in the northwest to attend to study tourism, to study their general arts degrees. It's very exciting. The town is electric at that opportu- nity, but that doesn't happen unless government listens to the people, develops a plan, brings forth the vision, works with our professional civil servants to develop the actual implementation and then has the political will to actually deliver that implementation. I know that the NDP likes to harbour that they care about students.

I know the ND P likes to say that they watched over post-secondary education, but the facts show that their freeze-and-turtle approach didn't work. This is an exciting time for post-secondary educa- tion in the province. We ar e now in a position where the rest of the country is l ooking at what we're doing. We're seeing research move to this province. We're seeing students move to this province. We're seeing scholarships and bursaries ra ised in the province and from other places to support our students. I want to congratulate the Premier.

I want to congratulate the Minister of Advanced Educati on for continuing on this vision, for bringing forth th e greatest expansion in the last 40 years in post-secondary education. Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak, Madam Speaker. J. MacPhail: I want to beg in, first of all… . I didn't have an opportunity to do this earlier today — to send my best wishes to the member for Esquimalt- Metchosin. Our thoughts are with him and his family, and we are praying for him. I just want to say that. He was travelling with both the member for Victoria– Beacon Hill and me on the Finance Committee tour.

Our prayers are with you.

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11401 I wasn't actually going to speak to this legislation. I was going to wait for some actually substantive legisla- tion around the issue of advanced education to be in- troduced into this Legislat ure, but I expect we're not going to get that.

I'm just going to make a few brief comments about post-secondary education in this province, and it will be quite interesting as it follows the comments made by the member for Victoria– Beacon Hill, who just spoke. [1525] I was quite taken aback when that member had the gall to stand up and say that post-secondary enrolment fell in the 1990s. I just coul dn't miss an opportunity to set the record straight.

I know that perhaps that mem- ber isn't that worried about what he says in the Legisla- ture because his career is coming to an end, but never- theless, I would expect that when one looks back on history, one would actually be able…. Interjections. Deputy Speaker: Order. Order, please. J. MacPhail: I would expect that when one looks back at what one actually contributed to the debate, it at least be factual. So let me just say first what did hap- pen in the 1990s to post-secondary education, and then let's just examine what we're hearing about it now.

The greatest number of universities opened in Can- ada in the decade of the 1990s was here in British Co- lumbia. The enrolment in post-secondary education in British Columbia went from second-last in the partici- pation rate to second from the top, a fact that is real and not the myth or the misleading that the member for Victoria–Beacon Hill just did. Tuitions were frozen for six straight years and be- came the second-lowest tuition rates in all of Canada. The only rates lower were in Quebec, where Quebec has a two-system rate.

If you were a Quebecker — Quebecois — you had lower tuition rates, but if you came from anywhere else, the tuition rates were much higher than in British Columbia. So amongst that group, British Columbians were the lowest in paying for tuitions. The funding for post-secondary education as a per- centage rate increased every single year — the real rate of increase. The real per-pupil funding every single year increased, unlike this year. Apprenticeship and training funding increased every single year. Community colleges were treated with a great deal of respect and were given their full worth.

We contin- ued with the good work done by the previous Minister of Advanced Education to the time of us coming in — now the current member for Comox Valley — to intro- duce a system of university colleges into the British Columbia system. That's what happened in the 1990s. We also made adult basic education completely tuition- free, and apprenticeship training was completely tuition-free as well. Here's what has happened from 2001 onward. Tui- tion fees across this province have more than doubled. This government is happy to have them just a little bit above the national average, as they'll say now.

I think we're the fifth-highest province,

whereas I said before that in almost every other circumstance we were the lowest province for tuition fees. But this government — unlike for businesses, where they have to have the lowest rates of business contributions to our taxation system — is happy to have u s creep u p every y ear to make post-secondary educ ation expensive. Appren- tices have to pay for their schooling now for the first time ever. Students who need adult basic education are having to pay exorbitant tuition now.

Where they can get adult basic education courses, they have to pay for that now. [1530] It's not just tuition costs that have gone up under this government. All of the extra fees that students have to pay now are the highest in Canada. Don't take my word for it. That's according to Statistics Canada that they're highest in Canada — the extraneous fees that students have to pay. Interjections. J. MacPhail: Well, actually, I hear all of the heckling coming from the members. I welcome them to join the debate and put their comments on the record.

I hope it will be a little more factual than the member for Victoria–Beacon Hill. But as I say, when one is retiring, when one is sort of having a forced retirement, one has to be a little less careful with the facts. I just hope that they engage in the debate, Madam Speaker, because it's important to know what's going on in post-secondary education. Here's what I heard on the prebudget consultation tour of the Finance Committ ee. It's a very dedicated group. We're working hard, and we're listening to Brit- ish Columbians.

When we were in Kamloops, the col- lege — now a university named the Thompson Rivers University — made a presentation. It's actually in writ- ing, so we can check this out. They said: "We've ex- panded access over the last years with no increased funding per pupil." It's right there in black and white. Well, actually, it's in colour — it's a beautiful colour brochure — but there it is. When questioned, they said: "No, we haven't received any extra funding for per- pupil." Well, the Minister of Advanced Education is calling what the university said no nsense.

I welcome her chal- lenging the written document that they presented to us. I welcome her challenging the words of the presi- dent of the Northwest Community College, when she said that enrolment is on the decline in the Northwest Community College. Why? Well, they actua lly did a survey. Applica- tions to the college were up , and they surveyed all of those people who applied and qualified about why they weren't enrolling. The vast majority of them said it was because they couldn't afford to. Now, that's on the record.

That's on Hansard, by a group we value greatly, so I welcome the Minister of Advanced Education get-

11402 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 ting up and challenging the president of that college saying that. We heard that elsewhere as well. If I remember correctly, we heard it in Cranbrook, where enrolment was at 108 percent when this government took over. It then fell to 100 percent of capacity, and now it's down around the mid-90s of capacity. A 10 to 15 percent de- cline in enrolment — that's interesting. We hear that the enrolm ent is down at Okanagan University College as well. Hon. R. Thorpe: Because they've got jobs. Hon. K. Falcon: Exactly. J. MacPhail: Now, isn't that interesting?

Here we are…. The great brains trust of that front bench over there says enrolment is down because people have jobs. Hon. K. Falcon: That's right. J. MacPhail: S o t h a t ' s t h i s g o v e r n m e n t ' s a n s w e r t o dealing with the skills shortage — is it? That the only province in the country wher e enrolment is on the de- cline on an institutional basis…. They take pride in it. Well, let's look at the youth unemployment rate in this province. It's the highest in Canada. In August of 2004 the unemployment rate amongst the 15 to 24 was the highest in Canada. Was that a one-month aberra- tion? No.

Unemployment amongst youth has been steadily rising this year. I hate it when those facts get in the way of a good government spin. Now, let's also look at th eir saying that they've cre- ated the most seats in 40 ye ars. I'm actually surprised this has gone untested in the media, but I understand there's a relationship betw een advertising and media reporting. I do understand, and I accept that. I do; I accept it. It's the marketplace. This government is pay- ing more… Interjections. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Order. Thank you. [1535] J. MacPhail: …in advertising th an anyone could have possibly imagined.

An other broken promise by the Premier, who said, prior to the election, that people hate government advertising. Well, it's true that they don't like this government. Perhaps the Premier should look at the link between hi s broken promise and why they don't like this government. I challenge the Minister of Advanced Education to stand up year by year and admit to the number of post- secondary seats created in the last 40 years — year by year. I expect she will be very reluctant — in fact, will not agree to do that — because her own advertising will then be proven to be false — her own advertising.

I'd love it — for the last 40 years. I expect it will be shown that the current member for Comox Valley, when he was Minister of Advanced Education under the then Socred government, had a better record than the post-secondary seats that this government has added. By the way, Madam Speaker, it's on a promise that this government is advertising. Let's be clear. They're promising the 25,000 seats by — what is it? — the year 2010. Are we doing '01 through '10? That's ten years, is it? Or is it nine, or is it eight that they're making their claim over?

Throughout the 1990s, the average was well over 4,000 seats added per year. That includes the period of the Social Credit, too, as the late eighties were as well. I can hardly wait to see the Minister of Advanced Educa- tion's math. I want her to stand and tell us on a year- by-year basis. How many have actually been delivered, and how many are promised? What's the annual rate of creation that makes this record believable, according to their advertising?

I expect that the students with whom I speak every week, going to post-secondary institutions, who say it's tougher and tougher to keep going because of the hor- rendous costs and the burgeoning debt load that they're assuming…. I expect they know the truth in the face of those ads by this government — those mislead- ing ads. I expect the fact that access to UBC is not get- ting any easier, that this government hasn't increased the participation rate at all…. I expect those students and their parents will know.

I expect the parents who come into my office and are so upset because this gov- ernment cancelled the first-year grants for student fi- nancial aid…. Therefore, they can't afford to send their children to university. They'll know the truth. I expect those students who know that the smoke and mirrors around student financial aid is nothing but smoke and mirrors, with a he avy dose of carbon mon- oxide in terms of what it really means for killing peo- ple's education. I expect they will understand what the student financial aid change that this government has brought in really means for post-secondary education.

That's the real record of this government. That's the real record that they will defend over the course of the next few months. That's the real record that they'll have to defend when they said to students back in the last election that they would carry on the tuition fee freeze. Oh, but that's that silly New Era document, which has disappeared from the face of the earth. It was in that silly New Era document that…. Oh no, I'm sorry. It wasn't. It was actually in this chamber that the then opposition voted to carry on the tuition freeze.

It was on the election trail, when asked directly, that the Lib- eral candidates said they supported a continuation of the tuition freeze and never for a moment hinted that not only were they going to double tuition, but they were also going to increase virtually every other cost. [1540] Madam Speaker, I had to seize this moment be- cause there won't be any substantive legislation coming in to expand education. This bill doesn't do anything to expand education or the participation rate of people at the post-secondary level. It doesn't do anything. This

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11403 bill doesn't do one iota to expand education even for the Okanagan — not one iota. I just thought that we could refer to these differing views — one factual, from me, and one mythological, from the member for Victoria–Beacon Hill. H. Bloy: I'm embarrassed to be following the mem- ber for Vancouver-Hastings after some of the facts and figures that she's misquoted.

I'm not sure who she speaks to in the real world, but I can tell you that when I go to Simon Fraser University and speak to students up there, they're all please d with the number of seats t h a t a r e n o w op e n i n t h i s p ro v i n c e . T h e y ha v e a n o p - portunity to get the classes when they want them, and they have an opportunity to graduate within their four- or five-year period — unlike the last government, which was making students sit for six years. The former speaker, you know, referred to the facts.

I can tell you she's never let the facts get in the way of her story or her spin on anything that I've heard in this House for three and a half years. Really, I stood up today to thank the Premier of this province and the Minister of Advanced Education for what they're doing for the southern interior. Somebody said: "Well, why would you stand up for the southern interior?" I know that I have a university in my riding, and I'm so proud of the work that the minister's done there. I know what it will do for the southern interior.

Bringing UBC up there spre ads the wealth and the op- portunity for every student in this province. This Minister of Advanced Education brought for- ward 25,000 new seats, and it wasn't a number that was picked out of the air or on a whim. It was research that was done stating that any student with a 75 percent average should have the opportunity to go to college or university. With this, we 've now developed these 25,000 seats. Over 5,000 of them are going to this new university, and I wanted to stand up and commend them.

This legislation, by being able to establish the sec- ond senate for the University of British Columbia in the Okanagan and expand its bo ard of governors with lo- cal people, makes it effective for that community. The new UBC senate will fulfil the Premier's commitment to the Okanagan. So today I would like to congratulate the Minister of Advanced Education and the Premier for such a great job they're doing. K. Stewart: I have a few comments on this bill. It's a University Act amendment. It's for the up-country uni- versities.

People might ask why a person from Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows would get up to speak about this. Well, for two reasons. One is that I have a number of friends that are from other parts of the province. Recently, as of last year, I concluded a university degree. It was a cohort program where people came to the lower mainland from Kam- loops, from up-Island and from Victoria to attend this course. As much of an advantage as it was for them to be able to attend a cohort program such as this, there was still quite a burden to come down from Kamloops.

I have a number of friends from Kamloops who came down on the weekends on their own time, driving down. Even though we have wonderful roads in this prov- ince — and I thank the Minister of Transportation for always looking to improve that — we do have weather conditions in Canada, especially in British Columbia when you're coming down things like the Fraser Can- yon or the Coquihalla, that even with good mainte- nance make it quite tiresome to be driving that route.

It's only to the advantage of us as a province to try and encourage areas outside of the lower mainland to have university courses and programs that will allow people to get the training they need for their education in their hometowns. [1545] When I look across the province now and I think back to when I graduated from high school, I had a couple of choices other than a university in the United States. In British Columbia the choices were the new — at that time — Simon Fraser Univer sity, the University of Victoria or UBC. Now students in British Columbia have a number of choices.

You know, when I was graduating, again, I looked at the college system they had down in the States, and we didn't have that here. Now we do. I listened to the Leader of the Opposition and her discussions about going over and trying to rewrite his- tory and what was done and what wasn't done — the debate over the facts. She indicated that British Colum- bia was the highest in tuition. Stats Canada reported that. I read Stats Canada.

Th e indication I got was that we were somewhere in the middle and that the reason w e w e r e e v e n t h a t h i g h u p w a s a s a r e s u l t o f t h e f a c t that we've been putting money back into education in the last couple of years. A couple of things I heard too…. Again, I don't want to be sitting here trying to r e w r i t e h i s t o r y . I j u s t w a n t t o m o v e a h e a d .

I w a n t t o look forward to the advantages that we have in this province, the jurisdictions that we have outside of the lower mainland and the capital region here in Victoria that are now very capable of producing graduates that are going to enhance the economy of British Columbia and our brain trust in British Columbia. The other trend that I see — and I see, as I look out to the future, this becoming more and more of a trend — is people with trades training and a university degree.

Now we're seeing a lot of people who have university degrees going back to places like BCIT, but out there all across British Columbia we have people who have trades train- ing, skills in certain areas, and want to get a little more educational backup to that. A degree would certainly help them in their career planning and certainly help them in their skills development and help us in British Columbia. Giving people that are out there in the field working already an opportunity to gain a university de- gree is only going to help us grow. I think that's some- thing we have to look forward to.

By doing this, it en- hances that for future students in British Columbia. When I talk about students, traditionally we think of younger people, but that's not the case anymore.

11404 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 Again, when I went back to university, I don't believe there was anyone under 30 in the group that I was in — pretty darn old compared to the 18- and 19-year-old students that we're used to. There's a wealth of knowl- edge there and a skill set that comes with the training that people have had outside of university training, the maturity they have from, in many cases, raising fami- lies, living in the community , contributing to the com- munity through volunteer organizations and that.

I think it's great that not only are we giving an op- portunity to the young people of British Columbia to attend universities and colleges in their hometown, but we're giving an opportunity to those of us who are a bit older than teenagers and are going back to university — to have that attribute available to us in our local communities. That's why I, as a person who's not from the Okanagan, think this is a really great move. I just see it as a further enhancement of our commitment to moving ahead with education as we need to make the changes as we move ahead.

I also have to reflect upon the comments of the members of the opposition where they indicated about things in the past that were free. I don't know of too much in life that's free. Someone else might pay for it. The funding might come from somewhere else. We might tax people for it. But you know, the only thing I ever got free was advice, and some of it wasn't that good. Interjection. K. Stewart: Yeah, especially when they gave me the advice to get into politics. Really, this term "free" doesn't mean a lot to me, because there's not a lot that's free. Someone was pay- ing for it.

We as British Columbians were paying for it o n e w a y o r t h e o t h e r . I n m a n y c a s e s , w h e n w e p u t a f r e e z e o n i t , w e w e r e p a y i n g f o r i t i n a n e g a t i v e w a y , because we weren't getting the resources to the univer- sity. We weren't able to attract the professors and the teachers that we needed for the training, because we didn't have the funds to pay them. All we saw with the freeze is the same thing we see when a lake freezes: nothing. It just stays stagnant. [1550] Those are really the comm ents I had to make about that.

I'm not, again, going to sit here and kick around what happened in the last 15 or 20 years. I'm looking forward to working with a Mi nister of Education and a Minister of Advanced Education that have one thing on their agenda, and that's to put forward a better training environment and a better educational envi- ronment for the people of British Columbia. That's what we're doing here today, and that's what I'm proud to stand up and support. R. Masi: It's my pleasure today to rise and support Bill 60.

I would just like to comment that I'm totally impressed with the way the Minister of Advanced Education has administered and implemented this change. You know, it's very ea sy to sort of look down the list of items here, such as local control over the aca- demic governance of UBC Okanagan, a voice in the administrative operations of the university as a whole, the university to dispose of its land, more flexibility and independence in their day-to-day operations. It's very easy to just say: "Well, yeah, that's the way it should be. Yeah, we'll writ e that in, and it's done." That's not how it's done.

Ho w it's done is many, many hours of consultation with th e university council, with the officials at the Ministry of Advanced Education, with the push and pull of local politicians. All these factors go together before you can make these deci- sions. What an excellent resu lt that came out of this. Again, I commend the minister for her patience and her stick-to-it-iveness in terms of implementing this vital change. This bill is a vital and an essential component, I believe, that will establish the basic concept of aca- demic expansion throughout the province. You know, this isn't the end of it.

Th is is a growing province, a progressive province, and we're going to have more people moving in. The population will grow, and there will be a need for more advanced education. This bill, I believe, is a br eakthrough bill. It provides an excellent framework for a vast post-secondary struc- ture throughout this province, and I know that the min- ister is very, very interested in this and very aware of the needs of post-secondary education in the province.

You know, we talk about universities, and we talk about access, and I was a little disappointed in the Leader of the Opposition suggesting that all the great changes took place in the nineties. My recollection was that we had some very, very serious problems of access in the nineties. In fact, that was the major question that was brought forward: how to deal with it. We talk about the freeze in tuition fees, and that's one compo- nent, but the basic problem was that it got to the point where the average student co uld not enter university.

I know myself that I would have never made it in terms of the expectations of a 95 average, or something like that, to get in. What's to be done? I know that our minister grap- pled with that, worked ha rd, implemented and freed up the universities to bring forward some reasonable increases in fees, and now we're at the medium point in Canada. I believe that the results are bearing up. Now, I hate to say that the standards are lower, but I know that the expectations to get in are lower. The aim for a B average, I think, is a reas onable one, and I think we'll make it.

Again, I commend the minister for that, and I'd like to support the member from Victoria in saying very clearly that this is an important plank in our objec- tive in post-secondary education. [1555] We have a wonderful system in British Columbia, and I'm not sure…. It just grew beautifully. We have universities, university colleges and colleges. The way they've adapted to their respective roles is absolutely amazing. We should be fully supportive of the fine research standards that the universities have established. You

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11405 know, research has a direct bearing on the economic health of our province. Our major universities are go- ing forward at a great rate to in fact develop research facilities with the support of the provincial govern- ment, and we are going to be the better for it. I would have to say again that we're on the right track.

As a person that atte nded a small university in the interior of the province way back when — it was called Notre Dame University of Nelson, and it has now disappeared from the map — I certainly appreci- ate the move towards bringing a major university into the Okanagan. Perhaps some day, as the population increases, we will have further expansion under the model established, and it may well be Simon Fraser– Nelson or something like that, but hopefully, we'll keep going forward. Good luck to the minister. I again commend her for her work here. L.

Mayencourt: It's a pleasure to join with my other colleagues here on this side of the House in support of this particular bill. I think it is important to note that members on this side of the House have made a firm commitment to advancing the opportunities for stu- dents across British Columbia to get a quality post- secondary education. The Leader of the Opposition was here a few mo- ments ago, and it was nice of her to drop in to give us a little bit of a lecture on what was happening on the Finance Committee last year. Well, I was on the Fi- nance Committee last year.

I travelled with the member for Victoria–Beacon Hill, and I heard over and over again from people who came before us that they wanted our government to make an investment in the future of British Columbia by making an investment in post-secondary education, and we are doing that. We are doing that in a way that no other government in the history of British Columbia has ever taken on a chal- lenge. We have committed to create 25,000 new student spaces in British Columbia by 2010.

I'm proud of that, and I don't know what Carole James and the Leader of the Opposition have against post-secondary education or skills development train- ing or providing more acce ss to students. Why in the world are they worried ab out Okanagan University College and UBC Okanagan? I mean, this is a step for- ward. This is a step that means kids, youth and adults in the Okanagan will be a

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	h1005pm-04
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	h1005pm 04
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	dd3d2f1da75a1d2a138b16782e275b4eb7c7b7de

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