role="main" class="main-container container js-quickedit-main-content" id="main-content">

April 27, 2010

39th Parliament, 2nd Session

< Previous sitting day

Next sitting day >

Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2010-Apr-27 (PDF)

L022 - Tue 27 Apr 2010 / Mar 27 avr 2010

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Tuesday 27 April 2010 Mardi 27 avril 2010

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ELECTION STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE LES ÉLECTIONS

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

RENEWABLE ENERGY

RENEWABLE ENERGY

NURSES

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

VISITORS

RENEWABLE ENERGY

PUBLIC TRANSIT

CHILD POVERTY

TAXATION

HEALTH PROMOTION

EASTERN ONTARIO DEVELOPMENT

PRESCRIPTION DRUGS

CHILD POVERTY

AGRI-FOOD INDUSTRY

DARLINGTON NUCLEAR

GENERATING STATION

PROPERTY TAXATION

VISITORS

DEFERRED VOTES

FULL DAY EARLY LEARNING

STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE L’APPRENTISSAGE

DES JEUNES ENFANTS À TEMPS PLEIN

CONDUCT OF HOUSE PROCEEDINGS

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

JUNIOR HOCKEY

DAY OF MOURNING

GARRETT HOLMES

JUNIOR HOCKEY

ELENA MAMYCHEVA

GENERAL MOTORS OF CANADA

MINOR HOCKEY

RENEWABLE ENERGY

OTTAWA SENATORS

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION

STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE

L’ENSEIGNEMENT POSTSECONDAIRE

MOTIONS

APPOINTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION /

ÉDUCATION POSTSECONDAIRE

PETITIONS

ONTARIO PHARMACISTS

ONTARIO PHARMACISTS

ABORIGINAL PROGRAMS

AND SERVICES

TAXATION

HIGHWAY 17/174

ONTARIO PHARMACISTS

TAXATION

ELMVALE DISTRICT HIGH SCHOOL

ONTARIO PHARMACISTS

ONTARIO PHARMACISTS

ONTARIO PHARMACISTS

TAXATION

ONTARIO PHARMACISTS

ORDERS OF THE DAY

PENSION BENEFITS

AMENDMENT ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES RÉGIMES DE RETRAITE

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Good morning. Please remain standing for the Lord’s Prayer, followed by a moment of silence for inner thought and personal reflection.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ELECTION STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE LES ÉLECTIONS

Ms. Smith, on behalf of Mr. Bentley, moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill 231,

An Act to amend the Election Act and the Election Finances Act / Projet de loi 231, Loi modifiant la Loi électorale et la

Loi sur le financement des élections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Debate?

Hon. Monique M. Smith: I will be sharing my time this morning with the member from Willowdale, and as he has now reached his seat, I will be sharing it with him now.

Mr. David Zimmer: I was in a rush to get in. I got locked out this morning.

Anyway, I’m very pleased today to rise to speak to Bill 231 on third reading. This act, if passed, would amend the Election Act and the Election Finances Act. Third reading of this bill is the result of nearly two years of work. We’ve built on the recommendation of the Select Committee on Elections through public hearings. As well, extensive consultations with the Chief Electoral Officer have taken place. I think we can all agree that Bill 231 is better as a result of these consultations.

Bill 231 would improve our election system in a number of ways. It would give Ontarians with disabilities more equal opportunities to participate in the voting process, it would make our electoral system more responsive to the needs of voters throughout the province and abroad, and it would bring our election finance system into the 21st century. What I’d like to do this morning is to take some time and tell the members of this House how Bill 231 would accomplish these very important improvements.

Ontarians with disabilities: I want to talk about voting technology as it affects them. We’ve learned a lot about the barriers faced by people with disabilities when they vote. We’re bringing forward ways to break down these barriers. The use of voting technology could allow electors with disabilities to vote privately and independently. Bill 231 would require the Chief Electoral Officer to use accessible voting equipment in returning office advance polls starting with the 2011 election. This is a very significant change to the voting process. It puts Ontario at the cutting edge of these issues.

It is our responsibility to ensure that even as the voting system evolves, it maintains the highest level of security. Indeed, this goes to the very heart of our democracy. We recognize that as technology evolves, additional voting methods may become as secure as the equipment that Bill 231 requires. That’s why we have created a process that would allow the Chief Electoral Officer to direct the use of an alternative voting method if certain conditions are met.

These are the conditions: successful testing at a by-election; protecting the integrity and security of the voting process; consulting with parties, experts and members of the public; and—and this is important—approval by a legislative committee after public hearings. This meets the key shared objectives. It would create a process for voting methods to evolve with technology, it would ensure that the integrity and security of elections is maintained, and it would require that there be significant opportunities for public input, including experts in the field of alternative voting methods.

To make sure that we’re on the right track here, the Chief Electoral Officer would also be required to conduct a comprehensive review and report on alternative voting technologies by June 30, 2013. Voters with disabilities, and indeed all electors, need to vote privately and independently. And they need to be sure that the voting method they are using counts a vote the way it was cast. We are confident that the measures taken in Bill 231 would meet these requirements.

There are some other changes in the voting process that I’d also like to touch on in my remarks this morning. The bill would improve access as well as convenience for all electors through the introduction of special ballots. Special ballots can be cast, for example, through the mail. People with disabilities would be given the option of requesting that election officers make a home visit to assist with the special ballot application and with voting.

But special ballots would not only enhance voting options for people with disabilities; they would also enhance voting options for a broad range of Ontarians who are unable to vote on election day or in person during the election period. By permitting special ballots, people such as snowbirds, who go back and forth to the warmer climates in the winter, senior citizens, and military personnel, who are often out of the country, out of the jurisdiction, would also benefit. Voting should be quicker, more convenient and more efficient for everyone.

An important feature of the bill is that the Chief Electoral Officer would be allowed to modify the voting process and to streamline the voting process at polling locations. In addition, the Chief Electoral Officer would be given the flexibility to determine the hours and dates for advance polls, to better deal with local needs. This was an issue that the select committee heard quite a lot about. Ontario is a vast and complex province.

The practicalities of voting are quite different in downtown Toronto, in the suburban GTA, in the Far North and in the aboriginal communities, so the ability of the Chief Electoral Officer to take into account those practical local challenges is an important piece in this legislation.

We also want to encourage our young people to get involved early, to vote early, as soon as they’re able to, and to establish that pattern of participating in the voting process, so it’s important that voting is not made to be unnecessarily or unfairly inconvenient for young people simply because they are away at a college, university or other training facility. That is why post-secondary students will be allowed to choose whether they want to vote in the electoral district where they are attending for their education and training or where they reside permanently, typically with their parents.

This was also something that we heard quite a lot about. Often, a student studying here in Toronto who lives in northwestern Ontario is keenly aware of the issues in northwestern Ontario where he or she has grown up, where their family lives, and wants to vote there rather than in the GTA, where they’re temporarily a resident. This is a fair way to deal with that concern.

As I mentioned earlier, these initiatives are supported by measures that ensure the integrity of our election system, that ensure that it remains strong. I just want to touch on a few of those.

Under the heading of professionalization, Ontarians need equal and ample opportunities to cast a ballot. They also need election officials who are sufficiently experienced and appropriately qualified. That is why this bill will depoliticize the appointments of returning officers and poll workers. This is a big change. This includes eliminating the existing requirement that poll workers be appointed from lists provided by candidates.

This bill would also establish a new authority for the Chief Electoral Officer over appointments and remuneration of election officials so that these officials are more directly accountable. The Chief Electoral Officer would be permitted flexibility to establish fees, including wage levels for election workers. This would better ensure that election officials are sufficiently experienced and appropriately qualified. It would also reduce delays in staffing and training poll workers. What we’re doing is professionalizing the people who are responsible for servicing and working with the voters as they cast their ballots.

With responsibility, of course, comes accountability. So the legislation would also modernize the Chief Electoral Officer’s financial accountability for election funding. The Chief Electoral Officer would make an annual submission to the Board of Internal Economy where he would establish fees for election officials. The board would have the authority to accept, reject or modify these proposed fees.

Let me say something about modernizing election financing—and this is a very important aspect of this bill. We are mindful that changes to modernize Ontario’s election finance rules need to be made. That is why we are introducing more convenient contribution options that reflect modern banking practices and emerging transaction technologies. Bill 231 would bring us into the 21st century by allowing the use of corporate credit cards, debit cards, online contributions and electronic transfers.

We have also put forward rules requiring larger parties to develop their own electronic receipting and contribution systems. This would allow parties to centrally manage the issuing of their own receipts instead of relying on the receipt forms provided by Elections Ontario. In the future, parties would be able to provide receipts in a manner and in a format that is convenient and easy to manage. As of June 1, 2012, larger political parties would be required to develop an electronic database and receipting system that has been approved by the Chief Electoral Officer.

Smaller parties will be able to opt in if they wish. These changes to election finance rules are all about modernizing the system, a system that currently inconveniences some Ontarians who want to get involved in the election process by contributing to a political party or a candidate.

Let me say in conclusion that overall, this bill is the answer to one simple question, and that question is, how can we make Ontario’s election process work better for everyone? We have listened carefully to people with disabilities. We are taking significant steps to make Ontario a leader in Canada to make elections accessible. We have developed a variety of options that would make voting more convenient for electors throughout the province and those temporarily living abroad or out of the jurisdiction. We’ve introduced changes to Ontario’s election finance system to bring us into the 21st century.

We have considered thoughtfully the implications of all of the changes that have been proposed, and we have identified appropriate safeguards to ensure security and integrity of the election process. I’m confident that Bill 231 would make the election process work better for all Ontarians, and I encourage members of this House to support it enthusiastically, as I do.

In closing: I had the privilege of sitting on the select committee on election reform, chaired by Mr. Sorbara; Mr. Sterling sat on it and Mr. Kormos sat on it. I want to thank everyone for the contributions they made to the work of that select committee, which served as the basis for Bill 231.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Comments and questions?

Mr. Norm Miller: I’m pleased to have a chance to comment on Bill 231 and the speech made this morning. I think our party is in support of this bill, although we see that it’s missing one big part that the member for Mississippi Mills pointed out in his report, and that is that it doesn’t deal with third party advertising. The government is taking advantage of that, in that they have this Working Families Coalition spending millions of dollars in third party advertising and it’s not being covered by this bill. That is a huge, glaring error or omission.

However, there are aspects of it, and changes at committee, that are positive. I did sit in on some of the committee hearings and I know that many from the disability community expressed that the easiest way for them to vote is via telephone or Internet, and I believe there was an amendment put forward by our critic at committee. I’m pleased to see that there is an option to go forward to bring about alternative voting methods.

As has been pointed out, there first of all has to be a by-election, security issues have to be addressed, there needs to be more consultation and then there has to be approval after by a committee of the Legislature. This seems like a reasonable process to put safeguards into effect but that will still in the future allow the easiest way for those who are disabled to be able to vote. I think all parties want to encourage and make it easier for all people to take advantage of and participate in elections.

So we’re supportive of this bill, Bill 231, with the exception of the fact of that huge omission of missing third party advertising.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further comments.

Mr. Peter Kormos: The critic in this area for the NDP, Michael Prue, the member from Beaches–East York, will be speaking in due course to this bill. He had the pleasure of working with Mr. Zimmer, the parliamentary assistant, while this bill was in committee.

Mr. Zimmer is quite right that I was with him on the Sorbara committee. I was not there in my own right; I was there on behalf of Howard Hampton, who was the committee member. I subbed in for him during the course of the whole committee. I commend Mr. Zimmer, the parliamentary assistant, for his patience with these matters. The Attorney General gives him stuff like the election reform stuff. He gives him stuff like the accounting act, which we’re visiting this Thursday in clause-by-clause. Who gets the sexy stuff? The Attorney General keeps it for himself.

The stuff that has any prospect of spotlights and TV cameras and media coverage he gets for himself, and Zimmer is compelled to make clandestine early-morning phone calls to Andy Barrie to get done what he wants to get done.

But I commend the parliamentary assistant for his work on these things and I just want to tell you that he is a delight to work with. He’s intelligent, he’s articulate, he puts forward a rational argument—he is just such an unusual government member. And for the life of me, he’s the best cabinet minister that this province never had. I can’t do enough—I suppose I’ve probably done too much already since Mr.

Zimmer’s election, trying to get him into cabinet, and I’m not sure that we haven’t reached that point where the rate of return has started to diminish, but I’ll continue to make best effort in that regard and use every capacity that I can muster to ensure that David Zimmer gets the profile that he deserves, because he surely, truly deserves it.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Comments and questions.

These things that we’re talking about within this bill are important to democracy overall. We pride ourselves in what we do as a democracy here in Ontario and indeed in Canada. The voting is part of our definition of democracy, I would think, in that we pride ourselves in how we approach these issues.

Of course, with modern technology and growing populations and the needs of all to be considered, it’s excellent to be here at third reading to see the amendments that are put forth in this legislation.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further comments?

Mr. John O’Toole: I came to the House because the member from Willowdale was speaking. He read the notes that were provided for him very thoroughly, I think. Most importantly, I’m listening and waiting for the member from Halton, our critic, who will bring some substance to the concerns that we have.

In fact, I think our finance critic, Mr. Miller, mentioned that we would be supporting the bill but that we want to render a couple of serious concerns. Third party advertising has been—“destructive” would be putting it modestly. I have in front of me a formal document here which is supplied under the elections finance office, and this is from Working Families. What it does is detail the contribution of over $1 million—$1,084,904.85—and it attributes this to Alex Lolua, who was the chief financial officer of Working Families.

Then it goes on to list, and this is the distressing part of this politicization of this process, to the extent where—there’s full accountability; we agree with that. All parties have to file, and all contributions are filed and disclosed. I think what’s missing here—these are augmenting, in this case, the Liberal Party war chest for the election. It’s right here. It’s saying that, for instance, there was $1.4 million from trade unions; that’s what it says. If I look at further detail, it goes on to list the IBEW local union, $9,000, and $400,000 from the Ontario Pipe Trades Council.

Now, it’s these kinds of contributions that render it unfair to the third party and the opposition. We’re for the bill. We’re for more transparency. The problem here is this whole disclosure part of third party advertising. It was ignored, and I think that’s a mistake in the bill.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): The member for Willowdale has two minutes to respond.

Mr. David Zimmer: I thank my colleagues in the Legislature from all parties for their comments.

I was reflecting that there are lots of new things in this bill, lots of things to move us towards the most modern electoral system here in the country. But I suppose one of the most important things for me is the new role of the Chief Electoral Officer. In the past, it has sort of been a hodgepodge of who’s supervising whom in the electoral process, who’s supervising returning officers, who’s hiring returning officers, how polling stations are set up and all of those issues.

The result has been that throughout the province, I think it was fair to say and we’d all recognize, the voting process, in subtle ways and sometimes not-so-subtle ways, was sort of different in Toronto, different in the Far North, different in rural Ontario. The single most important thing we’ve done is vest new authority in the Chief Electoral Officer to manage, in an overall way, the electoral process.

We’ve delegated real authority to him to do the hiring of the people involved in administering elections in Ontario, to set their wage rates, to supervise them—hiring, firing, discipline and quality control, if you will. We have reached a whole new level of professionalization and quality control by vesting the authority to do so in the hands of the Chief Electoral Officer. That is a big—

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Thank you. Further debate?

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: I’d also say that you have tied the Chief Electoral Officer’s hands in a very significant way by not passing many amendments that you could have passed in this act, ignoring the elephant in the room, as it were, with third party advertising. I’ll have more to say on that as we go forward.

Each poll was judged after the election or by-election as to whether it was accessible or not. Some of the criteria that were used for that judging were way out of date and didn’t take into consideration the handicapped people who had to use it. Indeed, the consultations with the handicapped community were sadly lacking. Some of those things were addressed in this bill, and certainly many of them were improved through amendments.

This bill, when it went to committee, did not contain any legislation that would allow the use of telephones or electronic equipment by handicapped people or indeed the general public. Through, I believe, a six- or seven-page amendment that the government introduced, that was corrected. I would like to think that that amendment was introduced because of a similar amendment that our party put in that found large acceptance by the handicapped community.

I think the government was more or less forced to bring in that piece of legislation, that amendment, that opened up some of the aspects to allow for very private and personal voting by handicapped people. I think it was a good thing that the government brought that forward eventually and passed it. I think that made this bill a better bill than it was initially. Certainly, the hearings that the government went through were not necessarily reflected in the legislation.

But by the time the legislation got to the committee level and the amendments began to flow, the bill started to take on a shape that was better than the bill that was introduced for first reading some months prior to that.

There was some serious concern, some debate, between the government and our party concerning the facilities around post-secondary students and where they would vote. We felt quite strongly that the post-secondary student who was involved in a community in Ontario and had lived and grown up in that community might be more aware of the political situation that that community faced and might wish to cast his ballot in that community.

The government, on the other hand, wished to make it as easy as possible for that student to cast his ballot where he was living in the university or college town, or living away from home. I think there’s a certain political concern in that area when you get such a large block of votes in one particular area that might, indeed, be single-issue voters who might not necessarily reflect the needs or the wants of the larger community or the larger riding that was involved in that particular issue.

One of the most interesting parts of this bill was the report that was put in by Mr. Greg Essensa, the Chief Electoral Officer. He submitted a report back on May 7, 2009. His report went to the Select Committee on Elections. I’d like to quote from his report. I’m going to read most of it, I think. I’m going to make some comments about it as well, because I think it’s an excellent report that the government should have listened to in much greater detail than apparently turned out when they produced this Bill 231.

He appeared before the committee in December 2008 and he recommended that the advertising provisions of the Election Finances Act be reviewed. “The law was drafted over 30 years ago,” he says, “and the way in which campaigns are run has significantly changed. In February, my written submission recommended that a task force be created to review the rules governing political advertising.” The task force was developed but it was much broader than just the political advertising aspect that the Chief Electoral Officer had suggested.

He said, “Today I would like to focus on one aspect of political advertising, specifically third party advertising. I will address three topics in my presentation: first, the third party advertising requirement in the Elections Finances Act; second, questions the select committee may wish to consider with respect to the regulation of third party advertising”—and that’s a very interesting part of the report—“and third, the role of the Chief Electoral Officer in administering the election finances process.” He suggests he’d be happy to answer any questions at the end of his presentation.

“To begin with, it’s important to remember that apart from parties and candidates, there are individuals and organizations who participate in the democratic process. These third parties participate in elections by commenting on a candidate or party’s position, adding issues into the political debate in an election, and attempting to influence which parties or candidates are elected.”

They’re taking

part in this election process in a very similar fashion as a political party, either the Liberals, the Conservatives, the NDP, the Green Party, the Family Coalition Party—the Rhinoceros Party, for that matter—the same way in which those parties are taking

part in an election, so too is a so-called third party advertiser, in that they are trying to get their specific position, their specific wants, needs or philosophy, across to the general public during that election process.

The Chief Electoral Officer goes on to say: “Third parties participate in the democratic process by sponsoring advertising, the same way as candidates and parties. They advertise before and during campaigns to deliver a message about a particular issue or about the merits of a specific party or candidate. Third party advertising has been present in the democratic process in Canada for quite some time. As early as the 1970s, on the recommendation of a royal commission, Parliament”—the Parliament of Canada—“amended the Canada Elections Act to include controls over third party advertisers.”

Why would they do that? We have control over the amount of money that the Liberal Party of Ontario can spend in a general election. We have control over the amount of money that an individual candidate can spend in a general election. These controls on how much money parties and individuals can spend are very important to the democratic process. It’s important to the democratic process in that money cannot buy an election, and I think we would all agree that that is not the way a democratic process should take place.

Yet here we have a third party advertiser who has the same logical position as a party or a candidate, and there are no controls over their spending habits or amounts anywhere in the Election Act.

I think that is a real concern and one that has been expressed by the Chief Electoral Officer. It has been expressed by a number of people in Ontario. And here we have a bill, Bill 231, which went through the House. It went through debate. This issue was raised time and again during that debate. And this government refused to acknowledge that the elections in Ontario are not fair and impartial when one sector has unlimited funding to promote their thoughts and ideas, while all other sectors in the electorate do not have that same advantage, and indeed are restricted—severely restricted, in some cases—as to how much money they can spend, and when and where they can spend it.

The Chief Electoral Officer goes on to say that he would like to turn his attention to the first topic, the third party advertising requirements in the Election Finances Act: “As members of the committee will remember, there were various changes made to Ontario’s election laws in June before the October 2007 general election. Those changes included new third party registration and reporting requirements.

At the time these changes were made, there were only three Canadian jurisdictions that had such requirements: They were in place federally”—so the federal Parliament of Canada had them—“in Quebec and in British Columbia. It should not be forgotten, however, that the Election Finances Act already contained some restrictions on third party advertising dating back to 1998.

The law already imposed blackouts on third party political advertising on polling day and the day before polling day, and deemed that $100 or more spent on advertising by a person, corporation or trade union which promoted a party or candidate was to be treated as a contribution, provided it was done with the knowledge and consent of that party or candidate. In essence, the law required for several years that third party advertising be treated as a contribution if it could be shown to be controlled by a political party or candidate.

The cost of such advertising was also subject to contribution limits and treated as a campaign expense of the party or candidate.”

These are all very fair, equitable regulations. The inequity comes when the third party advertising is not part and parcel of a party’s platform or campaign efforts and operates outside any political party’s contribution ceilings or limits. That’s where the inequity comes from. It’s unfair that one portion of the Election Finances Act is ignored, or can be ignored, completely by one aspect of people who are trying to influence the outcome of an election in Ontario.

The legislation that was passed in June 2007 contained the following significant requirements: “Third party advertisers spending over $500 on election advertising had to register with the Chief Electoral Officer”—that’s in Ontario; “all registered third party advertisers had to report on their advertising spending six months after the election; and third party advertisers had to report all contributions they received to support their advertising during the campaign period and in the two months before the election was called.”

Now there’s a very serious problem in the legislation in that the third party advertisers only had to report money they collected two months prior to an election. In Ontario, that would be somewhere around July 4, 5, 6 to September 4, 5, 6, depending on when the election day is and the day the writ was dropped. It would be in that first week in September, and that gives them two months now.

It’s known in Ontario that one particular third party advertiser, the Working Families of Ontario, collects money for the four-year period in between the elections. In fact, Working Families could very easily have a campaign chest that exceeds what the Liberals are allowed to spend in the next provincial election and what the Conservatives are allowed to spend. Those are the two largest spending entities in elections—they have been—in the history of Ontario.

In this next election, we could see in excess of $10 million spent on advertising by the Working Families Coalition; $10 million can seriously tilt the outcome of an election, and that is eminently unfair to all parties, to anybody who is concerned about democracy. This government ignored that issue while putting this bill through the House.

These provisions are similar to federal third party provisions, with the exception that the amendments did not impose any spending limits. Whether you’re a candidate or a political party, you have spending limits as to how much money you can accept from one individual or from one corporation. The spending limit for an individual candidate is somewhere in the $1,100 area. You cannot contribute more than that, from an individual or a corporation, to an individual candidate. You cannot contribute more than—I’m not sure what the party max is, but it’s somewhere in the $3,000 or $4,000 range.

Perhaps someone could help me with that, but it’s somewhere in that ballpark, where a political party cannot receive more than that from one individual. I think that’s good. That limits the ability for a party or a candidate to buy an election. I think it would be undemocratic for money to play a disproportionate role in swaying an election one way or another, and that’s exactly what we’re talking about with third party advertising, which has no limit on it whatsoever.

“In support of these new requirements, my predecessor”—this is a Chief Electoral Officer speaking—“issued new guidelines, which attempted to clarify for third parties, candidates and political parties alike how these new rules worked. These guidelines attempted to address, for instance, how to differentiate between issue-based advertising that would not be subject to these requirements and advertising promoting or opposing a particular party or candidate that would be subject to these requirements.”

They tried to clarify this within the standing act, and as Chief Electoral Officer, he found it very difficult to do; therefore, he is asking the government to have a review of this situation. As Chief Electoral Officer, he can’t tell the government what to do, but he can suggest, in the strongest of terms, which I believe he is doing in this paper, that the government review this situation and include some new guidelines or some new rules around third party advertising and how and where it can take place during an election, and this government ignored those recommendations entirely.

The Chief Electoral Officer goes on to say, “I think it can be said, in fairness to all, that implementing a new system on the eve of a general election”—this is back in 2007—“posed significant challenges for Elections Ontario and for those involved in the electoral process. I will have more to say about how … I intend to address these challenges in the last part of my presentation.” This took place in 2007, of course, on the eve of the election of October 2007 but his call for a committee to look into the Election Finances Act was to carry on into the next Parliament and to make those recommendations on a go-forward basis.

He goes on to say, “In light of Ontario’s recent experience with third party advertising requirements, I would like to address my second topic, and that is, questions that the select committee”—the proposed select committee—“may wish to consider with respect to the regulation of third party advertising. I began my presentation today by noting that it is time for a comprehensive review of the political finance rules in Ontario.

This review is certainly timely with respect to third party advertising requirements,” since third party requirements had been used in a new way, in a way in which they had not been used before. In particular, they had been used with a massive amount of money behind them. In the 2007 election they spent at least $2 million, and we don’t know what the total was because they were collecting money long before the two-month requirement to register that money. So how much money they collected before that is unknown.

How much money they spent during the election writ period, how much money they spent prior to the election writ period is unknown. There are estimates that I’ve heard that are as high as $5 million, or about half of what both major political parties in Ontario spent, and probably about the same as what the NDP spent as a political party in Ontario. When a third party advertiser is able to get to that level of expenditure in a totally unregulated way, I think everyone can see that it could and probably does have an effect on the outcome of the election.

Without some fiscal controls on that, that is wrong in a democratic process—and this government ignored that.

The Chief Electoral Officer goes on to say, “Since changes were made to the Election Finances Act in 2007, two more provinces, New Brunswick and Alberta, have either adopted or proposed to adopt controls over third party advertisers, and BC has substantially amended its third party requirements.

“Now that the legislation is over and the reports have been submitted, and taking into account the innovations being introduced in other jurisdictions, there are a number of areas the Select Committee on Elections may wish to examine. Some of these include:

“First, should Ontario adopt third party spending limits? Currently, Ontario has no spending limits” for third parties. “In comparison, there are third party election advertising limits in other jurisdictions. Federally, a third party is limited to spending $183,300 in total and no more than $3,666 in any one electoral jurisdiction.” As an aside, I kind of wonder where they came up with those numbers, but there you have it. “In British Columbia, a third party is limited to spending $150,000 in total and no more than $3,000 in any one electoral district.

In New Brunswick, a third party is limited to spending no more than 1.3% of the maximum amount a political party can spend if it runs a candidate....” To put that in context, a candidate in New Brunswick can probably spend somewhere in the order of $60,000 to $80,000, depending on what the population of his riding is.

I think they get 96 cents per elector that they can spend as the limit, and so 1.3% of the maximum amount a political party could spend would be somewhere in the order of $1,500, I would think, per riding. “In Quebec, a thirty party is limited to spending $300 on issue advertising, and third parties may not advertise to directly promote a party or candidate.” Quebec has certainly the most restrictive controls over third party spending. I’m not sure I’d want to see Ontario go that far.

“The second area of consideration is, should Ontario adopt third party contribution limits?” The first was spending limits, this is contribution limits. “Currently, no jurisdiction has contribution limits, but Alberta has introduced a bill, Bill 205, that would limit a contributor to giving a third party for its advertising no more than $30,000 in an election year and no more than $15,000 in a non-election year.” That would limit their contributions significantly from the current levels that exist in Ontario.

To continue on a second point, the Chief Electoral Officer goes on to say that “regarding issues that the select committee may wish to take into consideration respecting” third party advertising, “Should Ontario try to limit third party advertising spending to the amounts it raises prior to and during an election?” In reading the Chief Electoral Officer’s report, I think it’s important to note that he treads a very delicate line. He’s very much aware that when you put financial controls in place on third parties, or on anyone else, you have the ability or you have the danger of affecting democracy.

Certainly, there should be a mechanism whereby third parties can make their viewpoints known, talk about their philosophies, get those kinds of things out into the political arena so that a fair and equitable discussion can take place. I believe that’s where the Chief Electoral Officer is going. That whole debate was ignored by this government when it brought in Bill 231.

“Currently, a registered third party need only report on the contributions it receives to support its advertising in the two months before an election is called. This allows third parties to build advertising war chests but not have to report on the source of those contributions received at an earlier time.” As I mentioned earlier, this is certainly an inequitable situation, and it cannot be considered fair when you consider that a third party should have some restrictions placed on it in a similar vein to what other political parties have placed on them.

They shouldn’t be able to go down the road without controls while the mainstream political parties, the three that have representatives in this House, and the six or eight—I believe there are 26 registered parties in Ontario, or 27; I think I heard in the news coming in today there was a 28th one just registered—but those parties should all have the same access to funds and access to the limits that all parties in Ontario share.

“In 2006, there was a bill before Parliament”—the Canadian Parliament—“that proposed to limit third party advertising spending to the amounts donated and reported in the six months before an election. While Bill C-79 died on the order paper, this is a requirement that legislators in Ontario may wish to consider.”

The Chief Electoral Officer continues to push forward his concerns about third party advertising, and he keeps asking the government, “You may wish to consider;” that phrase is repeated many, many times. Given the fact that the Chief Electoral Officer is an officer of this Legislature, he cannot direct the government to do anything, but he is repeatedly asking the government to do something—to the point of pleading for the government to do something—on this issue which he sees as a serious affront to the democratic process in the province of Ontario.

“The fourth public policy area for consideration” could be, “should Ontario adopt stricter registration and anti-collusion provisions? Under the Election Finances Act, there is no specific provision that prohibits a third party from co-operating or coordinating its advertising with either a political party or one of its candidates, provided that the party/candidate is not actually controlling the third party’s advertising. Such advertising is not necessarily prohibited so long as the cost of the advertising does not exceed the contribution limits and is reported by the party/candidate as an expense.”

Herein lies the problem with third party advertising that we have in Ontario. They are coordinating and co-operating—the Working Families Coalition, which is a coalition of a number of unions, including teachers’ unions and construction unions. It would appear that they are co-operating and coordinating with the Liberal Party, but they are not admitting that they’re doing so. Therefore, their contributions, their advertising and their costs in elections are not included in the Liberal Party’s maximums, in the number of—

Interjection.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: Pardon me?

Mr. Peter Shurman: Connect the dots.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: The member from Thornhill says, “Connect the dots.” It’s easy to figure out. Connecting the dots becomes a little easier when you see that the executive directors of the Working Families Coalition contain the same names as many of the directors who sit on the Liberal Party of Ontario. It’s a fine line that separates it and it’s one that distorts the election process and allows the Liberals to double their expenditures over and above what the regulations allow them to do during an election. That’s a dangerous thing for democracy in this province.

The Election Finances Act has no specific connection between what prohibits a third party from co-operating or coordinating its advertising with other provincial parties. “Such advertising is not necessarily prohibited so long as the cost of the advertising does not exceed the contribution limits,” which is my main concern.

“Similarly, with the absence of spending limits in Ontario, there are also no explicit prohibitions on third parties coordinating their activities with one another.” When we look at the makeup of the Working Families Coalition, for instance, there are eight, 10, 12 people—organizations—who are contributing money to that organization. There is nothing to say that they shouldn’t be able to do that, but they should be able to do that only under the same conditions as all other political parties in Ontario find themselves faced with when it comes to raising funds and operating in Ontario under Ontario regulations.

“In contrast, more stringent requirements are in place federally, in British Columbia, in New Brunswick, in Quebec, and are being proposed in Alberta. It is, or will be, an offence in these jurisdictions to collude for the purposes of circumventing spending limits for political parties, candidates and third parties.” I believe those same regulations should apply in Ontario.

“These are significant questions, and there may be” many “others.” The Chief Electoral Officer says, “I do not have the answers to these questions.” I think he has a pretty good idea of which direction he’d like to see it go in. He doesn’t have a particular policy recommendation to make to you. “As the Chief Electoral Officer, that is not my place.” If you read between the lines, I think he would say, “I wish it was my place, because I think this should be fixed, and I’d like to see it fixed.

Therefore, please put it in the recommendations of the committee.” But he goes on to say, “But I do see that these are important issues that other jurisdictions have turned their minds to, and recommend that Ontario do the same.” I think that comes as close as the Chief Electoral Officer can come to asking the government to place some regulations in Bill 231—the bill that has now moved into third reading—and fix the problem that is facing Ontario.

He goes on to say, “I had such examples in mind when I recommended in December and in February that a task force be created to examine the rules of political financing in Ontario.” He’s trying to get the government’s attention.

“Finally, I have not just come here today to suggest things that this committee and the Legislative Assembly can do. As I mentioned earlier, I have a few thoughts with respect to the role of the Chief Electoral Officer in administering the election finance process. While I am not new to the world of elections, I am new to the Office of the Chief Electoral Officer. It is incumbent on me to ensure that I administer Ontario’s elections finance laws in a fair and impartial manner.”

Again, reading between the lines, the Chief Electoral Officer seems to have some frustration that the regulations in place in Ontario do not allow him to administer elections in a fair and impartial manner. This government had the opportunity to change that. This government had the opportunity to promote democracy. This government failed to do that.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Questions and comments?

Mr. Michael Prue: I stand to commend the member from Halton, who has just spoken, but I am somewhat puzzled because I did hear in the body of the debate and I did hear from some of the people doing questions and comments earlier that the Conservative Party will be supporting this bill. After listening to the member from Halton—who was really quite articulate.

He pointed out all the huge failures in this bill: the lack of any kind of concrete action towards the disabled; the weak, ineffective law; the third party spending limits that were not going to be honoured; the continuing reliance on donations; he didn’t talk about this, but there’s also the leaving out of advertising and third party advertising in municipal elections—all of the things that were wrong, all of the things that the Conservative Party in committee tried to fix. The government was having no part of it.

Then I listened to him and I listened to his colleagues, and it seems to me that in spite of the many flaws of this bill, they are prepared to support it. Perhaps when the member gets an opportunity in his two minutes at the end, he could indicate why, if this bill is so wrong, as his careful analysis has shown that so many things that could and should have been done have not been done, he is in fact supporting the bill.

It would seem illogical to me that any bill that will continue to allow third party advertising and have no third party spending limits, which is the crux of his argument today of what is wrong with the bill—why he would be supporting that to allow that continuing inequity to take place. I am absolutely puzzled as to why he and his colleagues will be supporting this bill.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further comments and questions?

Mr. David Zimmer: I particularly want to respond to the comments of the member for Halton, Mr. Chudleigh. He spoke at length in his remarks about some of the flaws that he saw in the bill. He particularly addressed and spoke strongly, if not passionately, to the issue of third party finance. We listened carefully to everything that he said. Third party financing is something that he’s very, very upset that—when you listen to what he said today—was not addressed in the bill.

To paraphrase Shakespeare and referencing Lady Macbeth and, “The lady doth protest too much,” I think the member doth protest too much here because the Progressive Conservative Party and Mr. Chudleigh, the member for Halton, sat in clause-by-clause as we went through the bill. The Progressive Conservatives put forth some 40 amendments to the bill in committee—40 amendments. That’s a great stack of amendments. They wanted to amend this, that and the other thing—a comprehensive amendment package. We were happy to support a number of their amendments; I believe we supported seven.

But the interesting thing is, not one of the Progressive Conservatives’ 40 amendments addressed the issue of third party financing. Now, talk about a conflict: The member for Halton sitting here used up a good chunk of his speech complaining about third party financing, yet at clause-by-clause, not one—

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Thank you. The member for Lanark–Frontenac–Lennox and Addington.

Mr. Randy Hillier: The Election Act—we all recognize how important it is and why we have an independent officer of Parliament as the Chief Electoral Officer. We all recognize that that Election Act is to prevent the fixing of elections. The Chief Electoral Officer recommended strongly that we have guidelines about third party financing to prevent collusion and collaboration between invisible agents and political parties.

The Conservative Party recognizes, and so does everybody else, that the Working Families Coalition is spending and contributing millions and millions of dollars to the Liberal Party. The Liberals are using trade unions, the building trade unions especially, as a proxy political party. They had an opportunity to close this loophole within the Election Act—this gaping loophole, one that the Chief Electoral Officer exposed completely—and they failed to act. They want this loophole to stay there. They want this unseen appendage, the Working Families Coalition, to continue to raise and contribute money outside of the Election Act.

What we’re looking for is disclosure and accountability. We want third parties to be active in the democratic process, but they need to be open, they need to disclose and they need to be accountable. Had third party financing been included in this act, you would have seen many amendments by our party in there, but you prevented it by not having it in the act in the first place.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): The member for Parkdale–High Park.

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: It is a pleasure to stand up and say a few words about this, certainly following on the heels of the member from Halton. Yes, he’s right: There needs to be more transparency about third party contributions. Also, our friend from Willowdale is right: Unfortunately, the Progressive Conservatives didn’t put forward any amendments to that end.

We, however, in the New Democratic Party, put forward over 30 amendments that would actually assist those in the disability community and disability rights community, none of which the government acceded to—in fact, in full view of those who were there as stakeholders. That is a real focus, and that’s something that my colleague from Beaches–East York will be focusing on when his time comes to stand and speak about the bill.

Those who are viewing should also know that we in the New Democratic Party would like to ban contributions from corporations and unions. That’s our party position. There’s significant work to be done about transparency in the election laws in Ontario and, unfortunately, on a number of fronts this bill just doesn’t do what’s necessary. It doesn’t really do what’s required to amend our election laws. Like so many Liberal bills, it fiddles around the edges but does nothing, really, to the substance of the issue and the substance of the problems.

One is to make elections more accessible to those who have disabilities; the other is to look at where contributions come from and to be really open and transparent about that.

It’s sad to see the member from Halton rise and speak so eloquently and then, of course, unfortunately it looks like the Progressive Conservatives are going to support this bill. So I’m looking forward to my colleague’s comments. They may not come at this time, but suffice it to say that we need election reform in this province and this bill won’t do it.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): The member for Halton has two minutes to respond.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: I’d like to thank the members for their comments. From the former mayor of East York and his riding, whatever that is—

Mr. Michael Prue: Beaches–East York.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: Beaches–East York, yes. Why are we supporting this bill, having railed against it for 45 minutes? I railed against what’s not in the bill. The bill itself does improve the election process, in particular for handicapped people, and it’s worth supporting on that basis. The bill could have been so much better, especially when you talk about the ability for this bill to improve the democratic process in Ontario.

To miss that opportunity—this Election Act doesn’t get opened up all that often. It’s 10, 12, 15 or 20 years sometimes between acts opening up. With this bill, you missed an opportunity that would have helped democracy in Ontario, and when you look back on your years in this House you will look at that one omission and you will say, “We missed an opportunity to do a better job for the people of Ontario,” and that is a sad thing.

Secondly, I’m surprised that the member for Willowdale wouldn’t know that when you put in an amendment to a bill, there has to be a clause for you to amend. There was no clause on third party advertising in this entire bill, so there was no clause for us to amend, and that’s why there were no amendments that we put in regarding that. I’m surprised that the member for Willowdale, who is a lawyer and tells everybody he’s a lawyer at every opportunity, wouldn’t know that.

Third reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Thank you. It being close to 10:15, this House stands recessed until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1016 to 1030.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Mr. Wayne Arthurs: I’d like to introduce some guests we have this morning: the family of page Georgina Hadjiyianni. Here this morning are her parents, Mary and Nick Hadjiyianni; her grandparents Andreas and Georgia Hadjiyianni; and her sister Paulina. Welcome.

Mr. Bruce Crozier: I would like the members to join me in welcoming two of my guests who are in the members’ east gallery: Plinio and Anna Paula from Rio, Brazil. Welcome.

Mr. Kevin Daniel Flynn: It’s my pleasure to welcome several members of the Oakville provincial youth advisory committee. With us today are Lucas Burton, Erin Nieweglowsk, Franziska Miller, Kevin O’Hare, Sara Pezzack, Natalie Djurdjev, Laura McVey, and Ellen Kuschnik from my constituency office.

Mr. Paul Miller: Shortly joining us will be Leanne Siracusa of the Registered Nurses’ Association of Ontario; Sally Palmer from the Campaign for Adequate Welfare and Disability Benefits; Stephanie Chapman, on behalf of her mother, who is an ODSP recipient; and Amy MacPherson, a single parent on ODSP. Many others will be in front of Queen’s Park today.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I would like to welcome the grade 10 students from école Gabriel-Dumont in London to the Legislature this morning. Bienvenue à toutes et tous.

Mr. David Zimmer: I would like to welcome today Mr. Fazal Khan, who is the president of the college of opticians; and Caroline MacIsaac-Power, who is the registrar. They’re over here. The college represents Ontario’s 2,500 practising opticians. Welcome.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I’d like the members to join me in welcoming two guests of mine in the Speaker’s gallery, Dr. Andy Ballard and Gail Ballard from the great riding of Elgin–Middlesex–London, who are here to observe the proceedings today. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

ORAL QUESTIONS

RENEWABLE ENERGY

Mr. Tim Hudak: In the absence of the Premier for the second consecutive day after his—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I remind the honourable member that we have an understanding here: We do not make references to the attendance of members.

Mr. Tim Hudak: Thank you, Speaker. My question is for the—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): That didn’t take long: 24 seconds into question period. Members will please come to order.

Leader of the Opposition.

Mr. Tim Hudak: My question is to the Acting Premier. Premier McGuinty’s ill-conceived plan to teach sex ed to six-year-olds is not the first time we saw him ignore Ontario families and take this Dalton-knows-best approach. Dalton McGuinty is also turning many Ontario communities into guinea pigs for his industrial wind farm schemes. And then he arrogantly dismisses any concerns from local families or municipal leaders about what this means for their neighbourhoods.

I ask the Deputy Premier: What makes Dalton McGuinty think he can cut local governments and families out of planning decisions when it comes to his industrial wind farm schemes?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: To the Minister of Energy and Infrastructure, please.

Hon. Brad Duguid: We all know very well that your party is opposed to moving forward on the advance of renewables. We know that you would do anything you can to delay that so your love affair with coal can continue. I’m going to tell you right now, your love affair with coal is over, absolutely over.

There are numerous opportunities for public input and involvement in renewable project planning. In fact, the proponent of the project must consult with the municipality and the community. Their concerns must be documented in their application and must indicate how the proponent is addressing these issues and concerns. Following their submission to the Ministry of the Environment, the application is posted on the Environmental Bill of Rights for 30 to 60 days. There’s a good process in place. It cuts out the red tape and delay—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Unlike Dalton McGuinty, who thinks he can sit in his office and decide where the industrial wind farm schemes go, the Ontario PCs believe in a fair price for the ratepayer and local decision-making on these projects. Minister, your Premier once said that municipalities were a mature, responsible level of government and they have their own duly elected representatives. Yet when it comes to local input on your industrial wind farm schemes, only Dalton knows best. We firmly disagree.

Municipalities actually have a say over where to put a shopping mall, but you’ve stripped away their ability on these industrial wind farm schemes that could be the size of 25 shopping malls. Minister, why did Dalton McGuinty say he respects municipalities when clearly he’s doing the complete opposite?

Hon. Brad Duguid: There they go again, saying one thing one day and another the next. One day they’re against red tape; today they want more red tape to delay very important energy projects and the 50,000 jobs that the Green Energy Act will bring. One day they’re for investments in our economy; now they’re against—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Members will please come to order.

Minister?

Hon. Brad Duguid: One day they talk about being for investment in our economy; the next day they talk about the $7 billion in private sector dollars flowing into this province from Samsung. One day they’re complaining about not enough jobs being created; the next day they’re opposed to the 16,000 jobs coming from Samsung, and the 20,000 jobs coming from the $9-billion investment we recently announced in renewable energies.

We know they oppose our efforts to transition our energy sector to cleaner sources of energy. We know they want to stick with coal, but—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: We saw this past week the same Dalton-knows-best routine that saw Minister Pupatello call opponents of Dalton McGuinty’s plans to teach sex ed to six-year-olds—that those parents were from the Dark Ages. We’re similarly seeing you call local municipal representatives and families who object to your industrial wind farm schemes as being part of the Dark Ages. In reality, some 50 municipalities have brought forward resolutions—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The Minister of Economic Development will withdraw the comment she just made.

Interjections.

Mr. Tim Hudak: Some 50 municipalities have brought forward resolutions calling for a moratorium on industrial wind farms until a study is done to investigate fully their health and environmental concerns. The Environmental Commissioner has expressed his concerns as well. What makes Dalton McGuinty so smart? Why does he know better than local municipal leaders and local families?

Hon. Brad Duguid: These Tories are so far behind the times that they’re even behind the Harper government when it comes to getting out of coal and moving to renewable energy sources. In a recent article, Environment Minister Jim Prentice has told Canada’s major electricity producers that they’ll have to gradually retire their coal-fired plants and replace them with cleaner sources of energy. Even the Harper government is ahead of you guys, you’re so far behind the world.

The good news for Ontarians is that we’re out in front. Our Premier, many years ago, saw this coming, and he’s moving us faster than any other jurisdiction in this world to cleaner sources of energy. The result will be building a green energy hub here, creating 50,000 jobs over the next three years, something—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

RENEWABLE ENERGY

Mr. Tim Hudak: I’d remind the Minister of Energy that it was actually Elizabeth Witmer who closed down the only coal plants in the province of Ontario.

Back to the Acting Premier: You know this impacts your riding, and you’ve dodged answering any of my questions to date. The Ontario PC caucus has brought forward a motion calling for a moratorium on these industrial wind farm projects until an independent study of the health and environmental impacts is done. We’re standing on the side of 50-some municipalities that have similarly brought forward resolutions. We are standing on the side of families from Scarborough to Prince Edward county who are calling for this type of moratorium.

Minister, I ask you, can we count on your support to stand up for communities like Prince Edward-Hastings, Scarborough Bluffs and Essex and support our motion for—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Acting Premier.

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: To the Minister of Energy and Infrastructure.

Hon. Brad Duguid: The member of the opposition should understand that we’ve brought into place the toughest setback rules on the continent when it comes to wind energy. No wind turbine can be closer to 550 metres to your home unless consented to. This is the toughest setback standard in North America. The Ministry of the Environment, under the leadership of our good friend the Minister of the Environment, John Gerretsen, has ensured that literature from around the world has been studied around the world, and they’ve found that there’s no adverse health effects as a result of wind turbines.

Under the leadership of the Minister of the Environment, we’ve appointed an Ontario research chair at the University of Waterloo who will provide guidelines and advice on setting standards. Our chief medical officer of health will be reporting this spring on health effects.

We take these issues very seriously, but we—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: Not only do Dalton McGuinty’s industrial wind farm schemes ignore what Ontario families want in their communities, they are very expensive as well. They will drive up the cost of energy to Ontario seniors and families. In fact, an independent report says that a $350-a-year increase in taxes and fees has come about on Ontario family power bills because of your schemes like this and your gross mismanagement of the file. When you add in these industrial wind farms and other so-called projects, families are looking at an additional $650 a year more on their hydro bills.

Minister, are you that out of touch? Don’t you understand the struggles families are going through? Will you support our motion before the assembly tomorrow?

Hon. Brad Duguid: If the Leader of the Opposition really cared about families, wouldn’t he care about the health of our families, the health of our kids and grandkids, the need for our next generation to inherit clean air from our generation? Wouldn’t he want to get off of coal? But his party wants to keep us in the—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock.

Minister?

Hon. Brad Duguid: Wouldn’t the member of the opposition care about ensuring that we protect the health of our kids and grandkids? I know he does. This is the to-and-fro of the Legislature here. He’s forgetting about our kids and grandkids and their health.

If he really cares about families, doesn’t he realize the need to ensure that we have a stable energy supply in this province, something that we’ve had to invest in over the last number of years? Under his government, the use of coal plants went up 127%. We’ve brought it down 70% since we’ve been in office, the lowest level in—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: Of course we care about the financial well-being of Ontario families that are paying these exorbitant increases in their energy bills because of Dalton McGuinty, and we stand with them in calling for a health and environmental review of your wind energy schemes. Quite frankly, I put much more faith in them and their municipal leaders than a Premier widely known for saying one thing and doing the opposite while he has been in office.

Communities want local input on these industrial wind farms in their community. They want to see that in your green energy scheme, the environment will actually win, because right now the environment loses and families lose, businesses lose, municipalities lose. Unless your name is Samsung, everybody loses.

I’ll ask the minister again: Will you support our moratorium and show the respect for local governments and families that they deserve?

Hon. Brad Duguid: Seven years ago, we inherited an energy system that had been neglected by the previous government, causing shortages in supply due to lack of investment in the aging infrastructure. Worse than that, it had a terrible reliance on coal that was harming the health of our people. Ontarians deserve better.

Our plan is delivering reliable, clean energy with a mix of emission-free power generation and a commitment to conservation. That’s a real plan. Is there a cost to that plan? Yes, there is. But the benefit is cleaner air. The benefit is healthier families. The benefit is a stronger economy; 50,000 new jobs being created as a result of our Green Energy Act.

This province is leading the world when it comes to these technologies. This province is leading the world when it comes to moving in this direction. Ontarians have a lot to be proud of over the last seven years and how far we’ve come.

NURSES

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Minister of Health. Yesterday, the minister argued that all of the 2,000 nursing positions that have been lost across Ontario are simply moving to the community. Can the minister provide us with a breakdown of where exactly these new nursing positions have actually appeared?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I’m very happy to talk about how much more opportunity nurses have in Ontario now than they did in 2003. As I said yesterday, we have almost 10,000 more nurses working in this province than we did when we took office in 2003. In fact, even in the last year there are 1,000 more nurses working today than just one year ago.

We collect statistics from the college of nurses, from our own ministry, where we fund new nursing positions. I’d be very happy to share the statistics from the college of nurses, from the ministry, with the member opposite.

What I can tell you is that we’re one of the few jurisdictions in the world that has a full-time job guarantee for new nursing graduates. It’s something we’re very proud of. The number of nurses who are working full-time now—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The Minister of Health and the Premier can talk a good game about transferring care to the community, but in communities across this province, people know that this is nothing more than government spin because eliminating beds, nursing care, intensive care units, emergency rooms and cancer clinics is not something that most communities have the ability to make up for.

Can the minister provide us with some evidence that the services by the nurses being cut from local hospitals are showing up in actual services in the communities that lost them?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I’m more than happy to talk about the enhanced community services where nurses play a pivotal role in our family health teams, in our community health centres, in our nurse-practitioner-led clinics, and in our long-term-care homes. Right across our health care system, nurses are playing an increasingly important role. The collaborative approach that we have really championed in our time in office means that nurses have more responsibility. And they are embracing that responsibility.

We have significantly increased the number of nurse practitioners. In fact, I believe that we’ve doubled the number of nurse practitioners in this province.

The responsibility of nurses is growing, and people in our communities are seeing the results of that.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Ontario families want to see responsible, smart health reform that protects patients and front-line services. Instead, we see cancer patients left without support. We see new moms left on their own, emergency rooms closed—all this as hospital CEOs continue to rake in exorbitant salaries and pocket huge raises like the one at Newmarket’s Southlake Regional Health Centre, who received an 81% raise and has made $2.9 million over five years.

Can the minister tell us when patients and their access to care will be the priority for this government?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: There is no higher priority we have than better access to health care. I think we have demonstrated that very clearly. We’ve got 1,200 new nursing positions in our long-term-care homes. We’ve got 1,200 new full-time nursing jobs in our hospitals. I’m proud of the investments that we have made.

I think it’s important to contrast this with what happened under the NDP government. The number of RNs in Ontario fell by almost 3,000 while they were in office. And that’s not all: There was a shift from full-time to casual employment. The percentage of nurses working full time actually fell under the NDP government.

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is also to the Minister of Health. Yesterday, Northumberland residents were at Queen’s Park to protest cuts to their local health care services. Northumberland Hills Hospital has recently experienced very deep service cuts, including closure of a diabetes education clinic, the end of outpatient rehabilitation services and the elimination of 26 hospital beds. Can the minister tell these Ontarians where in their community these new services can now be found?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I welcome the question because it gives me an opportunity to thank the member from Northumberland, Lou Rinaldi, for the exceptional work that he has done to protect health services in this riding.

I can tell you that our investments in Northumberland Hills Hospital include an increase in their base funding of more than 37% since we’ve been elected. We’ve also invested in bringing down wait times.

We’re also really focusing on the aging at home strategy in that community. Part of the aging at home strategy is actually making sure that people who need care but don’t need care in the hospital, the alternate-level-of-care patients, actually get the care that they need in the community. So part of the work that’s happening at Northumberland Hills Hospital is actually focusing on people who are in the hospital but would be better served in the community.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The services that hospitals like Northumberland Hills used to provide may be available in the community, but only if you pay for them. When hospitals like Northumberland Hills or Toronto East General eliminate rehab services like physiotherapy, Ontarians either have to pay out of their pocket or live without these essential health care services. Is this the government’s solution for health care in this province: make the patients pay?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I’m also really happy to just remind the member opposite that the beds that are closing are long-term-care beds—there are no other beds that are closing—and they will not close until there is a capacity in the community. It’s the right thing for the people who are in those beds, those patients who would rather be somewhere else than in the hospital.

I also want to take a moment to talk about the citizens’ advisory panel. I think this is a very innovative approach that Northumberland Hills Hospital took in this case. They actually brought together citizens and gave them very intense education into what some of the choices were in the hospital. There is no question that these are tough decisions, but the citizens’ advisory panel was something that I think other hospitals may wish to explore, because it does actually ask the people in the community what they need to protect and what could be done better outside the—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Final supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: More than four million hours of nursing care disappear, and the government denies it. Communities like Peterborough are asked to brace for deep nursing cuts because of executive mismanagement, and the government remains silent. Patients are forced to pay for health services that their hospitals used to provide, and the government takes a bow.

When will we see health care reform from this government that actually improves the health care that people in this province rely on?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: The approach that the member opposite is taking is that it’s just business as usual when it comes to health care: “Just keep paying more and hope that the money goes to where it will make a difference for people.” Those days are over.

Our spending on health care is now at the point where we simply must make decisions about where we’re going to spend those dollars, and we know we can make the right decisions, the thoughtful decisions, that will both improve patient care and bring the increase in spending down.

We’re committing more money this year to health care than we did last year, just as we have done every year since we’ve been elected, and we’ll spend more next year than we did this year. But the time has come to get a lot smarter about how we spend money when it comes to health care.

VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock, please. The clock is stopped.

I just want to take this opportunity, because this is a special school to me. These are students in the Speaker’s gallery from Edward Street Public School in St. Thomas, with their teacher, Mr. Bruce Smith. It was in a grade 5 class at this very school that the political bug caught me, courtesy of my grade 5 teacher, Mrs. Ethel Bond. Please join me in welcoming the students and parents from Edward Street Public School in St. Thomas.

New question.

RENEWABLE ENERGY

Mr. Bill Murdoch: My question is to the Acting Premier, and I hope she’ll answer this for me.

Even though industrial wind farms are largely being built in rural Ontario, your Green Energy Act cuts rural councillors and their families out of wind farm planning. Bill Bilton, mayor of Dawn-Euphemia, has been serving the public for 25 years, and he says that the province is throwing its weight around when it comes to industrial wind projects in his township. He says, “I was always told that planning is a public process. I guess on this issue, it isn’t.... Basically, we don’t have input anymore.”

Can you tell me, Acting Premier, why you’ve made it so Ontario family farms have no say about industrial wind projects in their own backyard?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: To the Minister of Energy and Infrastructure.

Hon. Brad Duguid: That’s simply not the case. There are numerous opportunities for public input and involvement in these renewable projects, as I responded to earlier. In fact, the proponent of the project must—I repeat, must—consult with the municipality and community. It’s not an option; they have to consult with the municipality, and they have to consult with the community. Their concerns must be documented in their application and must indicate how the proponent is addressing the issues and concerns that are raised. Following their submission to the Ministry of the Environment, the application is posted on the Environmental Bill of Rights for 30 to 60 days for public comment.

This is a thorough process. It cuts back on the red tape that the party of the member opposite talks about wanting to be against, but when it comes down to action, it appears that you’re for red—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Bill Murdoch: Unfortunately, the Deputy Premier doesn’t want to answer. She finally gets a question in the House, and she has a chance.

I’ve got several more mayors and reeves and councillors in my riding with the same concerns as Bill Bilton. Mitch Twolan, who is the mayor of Huron-Kinloss township, supports a moratorium to study health concerns raised by rural families who have to live beside these large industrial wind farms. He points out that projects are already on hold until there are more transmission lines anyway. And he says, “When it comes to public health and peoples’ concerns with health, you obviously can never have enough information.”

Why is Dalton McGuinty opposed to an independent study of health and environmental impacts of industrial wind farms? Please answer; don’t give the rhetoric to somebody else. You answer it.

Hon. Brad Duguid: Farmers in Prince Edward county and farmers across the province support this movement, and I’ll tell you why: There are many farmers that are joining together and taking advantage of these programs, making some extra, much-needed revenue for themselves and their families. I don’t know why the member wouldn’t want to stand up for those farmers.

We talked about contradictions. They’re for red tape one minute, and the minute we’re getting rid of red tape, they’re against it. They’re for investment one minute; the minute we’re getting investment in this province, they are against it. Well, here’s the mother of all contradictions: When they were in office, how did they treat municipalities? They downloaded on them like no government in the history of this province. They forced amalgamations on municipalities right across this province. There was more downloading when they were in office than any government in the history of Ontario—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

PUBLIC TRANSIT

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: My question is to the Minister of Transportation. This government’s wrong-headed decision to cut Toronto’s Transit City program is threatening one of the GTA’s most important transit projects: the Eglinton cross-town LRT. Eglinton is the only east-west road that connects Peel region in the west to Durham region in the east, and transit riders routinely spend 90 minutes or more making the trip across town.

Will the minister commit to having the shovels in the ground on this crucial transit project by the end of this year?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I absolutely understand how important Eglinton is; it goes through my riding and right across the city, and I completely agree with the member opposite, which is why we have not cancelled these programs; which is why we have not cut this funding. What we have done is made a decision that we have to stretch it over a longer period of time.

Right now, Metrolinx is working to bring forward a plan that will allow us to continue to move on all of these projects. I think the member opposite knows full well that this plan is being developed, and we have every intention of moving ahead.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: This is an absolutely essential transit project that we cannot afford to delay. The annual ridership of the Eglinton LRT is estimated to be 53 million customer trips by 2021, by far the highest ridership of any of the proposed Transit City lines, and its fate is so uncertain that even the Liberals’ own member from Eglinton–Lawrence is holding an emergency meeting in his riding tonight to rally community residents to save it.

So, I repeat: Will the minister commit to having the shovels in the ground on the Eglinton LRT by the end of this year? Yes or no?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I have committed repeatedly to continue to work on these projects. I have committed repeatedly to work with Metrolinx to bring forward a plan to continue these projects. We have made a decision that we need to spread this money over a longer period of time, and that’s what we are doing.

It is very interesting that this member from the party opposite has consistently voted against transit projects that we have brought forward. Right now, there’s money being spent in Toronto: $172 million to revitalize Union Station; $416 million towards the replacement of TTC streetcars; $870 million for funding the Toronto-York Spadina subway extension. All of those projects are things that this party opposite has not supported.

We stand for transit. We are going to continue to work on those projects—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

CHILD POVERTY

Mrs. Laura Albanese: Throughout Ontario, including in my riding of York South–Weston, families have been facing growing financial pressures as a result of the worldwide economic recession. Families are looking for supports to secure their most basic needs in order to better sustain themselves financially.

As part of the poverty reduction strategy, our government is keeping its commitment to continue to increase the Ontario child benefit. In my riding of York South–Weston, many families tell me that the Ontario child benefit is making a difference. The Ontario child benefit provides more assistance to more children and helps families make the transition from social assistance to employment.

Can the minister please tell this Legislature and Ontarians more about how the implementation of the Ontario child benefit will proceed?

Hon. Laurel C. Broten: I want to thank the member for York South–Weston for her advocacy on behalf of her community on this very important issue.

As part of the poverty reduction strategy, we introduced the Ontario child benefit. The Ontario child benefit represents a historic transformation of benefit payments with significant impact for all low-income Ontario families. By making child benefits flow separately from social assistance and distributing it to families based on need, the OCB assists not only families on social assistance but also families working low-wage jobs.

We’re very proud of the Ontario child benefit and the difference it makes to moms and dads across Ontario. Parents want to provide the best for their kids, and the Ontario child benefit supports them in being able to do just that.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mrs. Laura Albanese: I thank the minister for the response and appreciate the clarification. Allowing parents to keep their children’s benefits as they move from social assistance to employment is critical to expanding opportunities for children and families.

Increasing the Ontario child benefit to $1,310 by 2013 will help give low-income families the financial support that they need to provide a better quality of life for their children. But an effective approach to breaking the cycle of poverty will need to do more. Can the minister please share what other actions our government is taking to reduce poverty in Ontario?

Hon. Laurel C. Broten: Yes, to the member from York South–Weston, the Ontario child benefit is one part of a comprehensive strategy to help families lift themselves out of poverty and for us to reduce child poverty in this province by 25% within the next five years. In fact, in last month’s budget, we invested $63.5 million to fill the federal funding gap for child care. That will maintain 8,500 child care spaces and 1,000 jobs, and it will ensure that low-income working parents can continue to have access to affordable, high-quality child care. We are doing important and innovative work.

I recently had the chance to visit with the member for York South–Weston the Learning Enrichment Foundation. They and other partners are working with us across the province to reduce child poverty and to ensure that every child gets the best possible start in life.

TAXATION

Mr. John Yakabuski: My question is for the Acting Premier. In just 65 days, the McGuinty Liberals will begin attacking family budgets by making everyone pay their greedy tax grab on things we need and use every day.

Forbes McEwen from Omemee near Lindsay gets it. He says, “Electricity and gasoline costs will increase 8%.” That’s 8% more for electricity on top of the $350 in other taxes and fees the McGuinty Liberals have added to their bills.

The member for Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock hasn’t asked, so I will: Will your greedy HST tax grab apply to your other greedy tax grabs on electricity?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: The Minister of Revenue.

Hon. John Wilkinson: I want to thank our caucus member from Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock for the work that he’s doing to make sure that there are jobs in his riding—jobs today, jobs tomorrow and jobs for a generation. That is the most important thing that we all must focus on, coming out of what people refer to as the great recession, the first time that the global economy has shrunk at the same time since the Dirty Thirties.

Now, there are those who think we should stand pat, but there are those on this side of the House who believe that we have to do the most important thing that we can do as government, which is to reform our tax system. Leading economists tell us that that is the route to greater prosperity so that we can afford the valuable programs that people rely upon. It’s why it’s important that our businesses are getting ready for this important change so they can be competitive, compete on the global stage and bring jobs right—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. John Yakabuski: In 65 more days, the Liberal members will learn what a mistake they made following along with Dalton McGuinty’s decision to not consult Ontario families on his greedy HST tax grab. And I’ll let you in on a little secret: Dalton McGuinty not only can’t name a government that was elected after bringing in a harmonized sales tax; he can’t name a single jurisdiction that brought in a harmonized sales tax and didn’t lower the rate.

Walter Pape of North Bay gets it. He says, “If the government wants to implement the HST, it should have lowered the provincial sales tax rate to soften the blow and make it a tax-neutral proposition.”

The member for Nipissing won’t ask, so I will: What makes you think Ontario families also put up with you attacking their budgets to deal with your own budget—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister of Revenue?

Hon. John Wilkinson: I find it quite interesting. I just want to quote something here from somebody whom you know well: “The five provinces that still apply sales tax to business inputs, namely British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario and Prince Edward Island, should immediately end this practice. These provinces are further encouraged to harmonize their provincial sales taxes with the federal goods and services tax (GST), which already exempts business inputs.” Who says that? Mike Harris says that. Wow.

Then I remember another quote: “I’m quite encouraged by the fact that the government of Ontario decided to harmonize the PST with the GST. This is jobs, this is investment, this is good economic policy,” says Jim Flaherty.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The government members will please come to order.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The Minister of Finance, Minister of Revenue and Minister of Economic Development.

New question.

HEALTH PROMOTION

M me France Gélinas: Ma question est pour la ministre de la Promotion de la santé. Active Healthy Kids Canada released their annual report today, and the result should be a wake-up call to your ministry. Only 12% of children meet the recommended daily targets of physical activity. That gives us an F in this category for the fourth year in a row. Meanwhile, 74% of kids want to be active.

Physical activity is one of the four pillars of health promotion. When will the Minister of Health Promotion step up to the plate, provide leadership and stop failing our kids?

Hon. Margarett R. Best: I want to first of all thank Active Healthy Kids Canada for highlighting the issue of physical activity in Canada.

This is an issue not just for policy-makers, as it says right in the recommendations; it’s for everyone. It’s a public health and health care professionals issue; it’s a parent issue; it’s an issue for early childhood educators and for schools.

But let me tell you what we are doing, and I will tell you that 14% of children in Ontario are getting 90 minutes of physical activity a day. That is higher than the national average. This government is investing $10 million annually towards our after-school initiative, which is aimed at youth in 270 sites in high-priority neighbourhoods across Ontario. We continue to invest in physical—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

M me France Gélinas: Did I really hear her say that 14% in Ontario is something to be proud of? Eighty-six per cent of the kids in Ontario don’t have enough physical activity, and we should be proud of this?

The government has the power to move kids. You have it within your power. Seventy-five per cent of those inactive, obese kids will become obese adults. We spend $2 billion in health care costs looking after obese adults and the costs are rising all the time.

The Obama administration is bringing calorie labelling on menus to fight the obesity crisis in the US. Why is the McGuinty government missing in action on this front? Why are they happy with the 14% of our kids being active? What is the minister’s plan to address the obesity crisis?

Hon. Margarett R. Best: This government continues to be committed to addressing this issue in Ontario. We understand that there’s more to be done, but government cannot do it alone. We need everybody to be on board with this.

We continue to invest. We invested $17 million in the healthy communities fund. We also invested $16.7 million to implement 20 minutes of daily physical education for elementary school students.

We need everybody to be on board with this. Yes, there’s more to be done, but we continue to work with every sector to make improvements in this area. This is about our kids. You guys over there need to come on board and we all need to work on this.

I would tell you that since 2006 our government has invested $584 million in community—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

EASTERN ONTARIO DEVELOPMENT

Mr. Jim Brownell: My question is to the Minister of Economic Development and Trade.

Our province, like many jurisdictions around the world, is beginning to emerge from one of the most difficult economic downturns of our lifetime. Our economy is showing signs of improvement, people are being called back to work, and production levels are moving up slowly. This government should be applauded for what it has done to combat the negative effects of the recession by aiding industries such as auto and manufacturing. As a result of this government’s efforts, thousands of jobs have been saved.

As it turns out, though, these industries are generally located in the southern portion of the province. As the member for Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry, representing eastern Ontario, I wonder what support our businesses are getting from this government. Like the people of southern Ontario, job security is a top concern for these people. It is for this reason that I ask the Minister of Economic Development and Trade: What is the government doing to support jobs in my riding and—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. Sandra Pupatello: We really do appreciate this question about economic development, in particular in eastern Ontario.

For all of Ontario, just when our businesses needed a partner the most, the Ontario government was there, and in particular a focus on manufacturing, which was, in fact, the sector hardest hit in this global recession. We’re very pleased that at that time we had the programs that mattered. The Next Generation of Jobs Fund, as people will remember, has helped a multitude of companies make massive investments. A program like the advanced manufacturing investment strategy, which is a loan program: Loan commitments of $135 million supported initiatives of investment of over $1 billion.

That’s the kind of leveraging that our support can give them. The Next Generation of Jobs Fund: So far, 20 projects leveraging $3 billion in investments and securing—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Jim Brownell: I thank the minister for highlighting the ways in which the government has acted to protect jobs, increase job security and strengthen our economy across the province and in my region of eastern Ontario, and I applaud you for your efforts.

I certainly know that in eastern Ontario we have benefited greatly from a program called the eastern Ontario development fund. I understand that this program has helped immensely with projects all across eastern Ontario, from Peterborough to the border of Quebec to the north. Seventeen million dollars is a lot of money that the government is spending, especially throughout the recession, but the results the minister highlighted are impressive.

I’d also like to know if she could provide the House with how the eastern Ontario development fund is protecting jobs—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. Sandra Pupatello: I’m glad that the member referenced this fund because this member was a very strong advocate for the development of the eastern development fund. That meant that our government would focus in this region, which has had chronic issues of unemployment for a whole host of reasons. When you get a worldwide recession, it only makes it more difficult.

For example, we have great projects in that region. MacEwen Grain in Maxville: a new feed mill to help establish Maxville as an agriculture hub. Northern Cables Inc. in Brockville; Cam Tran in Colborne; McCloskey International in Peterborough; Burnbrae Farms Ltd.; Trillium Health Care Products—again, in Brockville: These are the kinds of projects that are creating jobs and helping companies tip towards that decision to make an investment—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

PRESCRIPTION DRUGS

Mrs. Christine Elliott: My question is for the Acting Premier. Can the Acting Premier guarantee that the cost of direct health care services provided by pharmacists will not be downloaded onto families and seniors as a result of your proposed cuts to Ontario’s community pharmacies?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: To the Minister of Health.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I am very grateful to have the opportunity to talk about some of the changes that are coming in this province when it comes to the price of drugs. We are determined to bring down the cost of drugs for people who need those drugs to be or get healthy.

Let me give you some examples. The list I have is the 20 most commonly prescribed drugs in this province. Ramipril for high blood pressure: people today pay $256 a year for that drug. Under the reform, they will pay $87. That is a savings of $169 for that person. For metformin for diabetes, they pay $178 today; they will pay $70 under these proposed reforms—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mrs. Christine Elliott: What the minister knows full well and what they don’t want to talk about is that whatever small cost savings might be achieved by seniors as a result of this are going to be more than offset on the other side by the increased costs that seniors are going to be asked to pay, costs that were formerly absorbed by pharmacists. They’re now going to be expected to pay $8 more in prescription delivery fees, $10 more for over-the-counter medication counselling, $20 more for blister packs and $200 more in co-payments, which many pharmacists currently waive for seniors.

The Premier and the minister would like Ontario seniors to believe that he’s reducing the cost of medications, but in fact he’s adding more than enough costs to offset that at the other end.

Minister, will you commit today to ensure that Ontario seniors are not left to bear the brunt of these additional costs that—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: The member opposite is speaking on behalf of Big Pharma and nobody else. They are on the side of rebates; we are on the side of lower drug prices for people in this province. Even the federal—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The members will please come to order. I would just remind the minister on the choice of her words in implying motive out of the mouths of members. Please continue.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Even the federal Competition Bureau understands that this rebate system is driving up the cost of drugs and padding the profits of big chain drugstores.

I know whose side we’re on. We’re on the side of patients: people who need drugs like cancer drugs, like blood pressure drugs, diabetes drugs, you name it. We’re on the side of lower drug prices; the people opposite are on the side of pharmacy, and I am ashamed of them, that they would take this position. We are paying far too much for drugs in this province and we are determined to get those drug prices down.

CHILD POVERTY

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Acting Premier. Ontario’s most vulnerable children are under attack as a result of this government’s callous reduction of the basic needs allowance. Many families on social assistance are receiving a mere dollar more in monthly support, an insult to those already struggling to properly feed their children. The problem is especially dire in Hamilton, which is why Hamiltonians have descended on this Legislature today. They want to know: When will the McGuinty government put an end to its heartless benefit shell game?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: To the Minister of Community and Social Services, please.

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: Thank you very much for the question. This government is very concerned about the well-being of children. That’s why we have done so much since we were elected to help children. In order to help the children, we have to help the parents, so that’s why we provided a 12% increase in OW and ODSP benefits since we were elected.

Yesterday, we finished the discussion on full-day learning for four- and five-year-olds, which will help children, again, and we have established the Ontario child benefit, which is a beautiful program that will come to help children. What did this party do? They voted against it.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary.

Mr. Paul Miller: The Hamilton activists who are in the gallery behind us here—or out on the front lawn—have travelled to Queen’s Park to tell this government and its poverty reduction strategy that it’s failing. As Ontario families who receive social assistance fall deeper and deeper into poverty, this government shows extreme cruelty by clawing back the little relief they receive through the Ontario child benefit.

Will this minister and her government finally listen to our province’s most vulnerable families and finally give them the little break they deserve today? Stop clawing back the Ontario child benefit by reducing basic needs allowances. If you want to do something for Hamilton, there they are.

Interruption.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Order. We welcome guests to observe the proceedings. As much as you may want to participate, you have to be elected to participate in the proceedings, so all you can do is observe. Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: I will refer the question to the Minister of Children and Youth Services.

Hon. Laurel C. Broten: As the member opposite knows, the Ontario child benefit is a transformative initiative. I want to be clear: Every family is better off as a result of the OCB—every family. I want to tell the member opposite what leaders in his community in Hamilton had to say—listen up: “The recent introduction of the Ontario child benefit, a new provincial program aimed specifically at middle- and low-income families with children”—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I’d just remind the member from Hamilton East that he just asked a question. He should listen to the response, and he can call a late show if he’s not satisfied with the answer.

Hon. Laurel C. Broten: —“middle- and low-income families with children, provides extra financial help. This improved feature with our social safety net couldn’t have come at a better time.” That was Don Jaffray, the executive director of the Social Planning and Research Council of Hamilton-Wentworth.

What did the member opposite do? He voted against it. He voted against the Ontario child benefit; he voted against the increases; he voted against child care spaces; they voted against rent supplements; they voted against minimum wage—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The member from Hamilton East will please come to order.

New question.

AGRI-FOOD INDUSTRY

Mr. Khalil Ramal: My question is for the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs. Minister, in my riding and across Ontario, shoppers are choosing farmers’ markets, where they know that the food being sold is fresh, high-quality Ontario food products. More and more of my constituents are supporting local farmers’ markets and are telling me that knowing who is supplying them their food is extremely important.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Speak louder, Khalil; we can’t hear you.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Perhaps if the member from Renfrew was not as vocal in this chamber, he would find it much easier to hear the questions being asked.

Mr. Khalil Ramal: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s a very important question, especially for you, Mr. Speaker, because I know that you support local farmers and you support the food being produced in this province. Again, to the minister: As you know, in my riding and many others across the province of Ontario, at this present time people are visiting farmers’ markets to buy local—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. Carol Mitchell: Thank you for the question. I tell you, this is good news for Ontario. The 2008 Ontario farmers’ market study found over 15 million shopper-visits were made to farmers’ markets in Ontario. There are about 200 farmers’ markets in Ontario, and their economic impact in Ontario is estimated to be up to $1.9 billion per year. In 2008, our government invested $4 million over four years for an Ontario farmers’ market strategy, to provide consumers with greater access to local food directly from the farmer. I tell you, local food is what people want, and when people buy local food, everyone in Ontario wins.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Khalil Ramal: Thank you, Minister, for supporting the farmers’ markets. I know that farmers’ markets are not just good for local business and for farmers; also, they are important for healthy food and to support our local communities. They support lower emissions from long-distance food travel and they support the local communities.

Minister, can you tell the House how important it is to create awareness among the community and Ontarians, to support the local farmers and also support our communities and local businesses?

Hon. Carol Mitchell: Through Open Ontario, we will continue to support opportunities to encourage Ontarians to buy local, but also we will be seeking new markets for Ontario-grown produce. We have invested almost $65 million in programming to support Ontario foods and we are committed to investing an additional $40 million over the next two years. The Premier’s summit, held earlier this month, focused on translating consumer demand into market realities. We are building a stronger value chain, from farm to retail.

We will help Ontario’s agri-food industry thrive and connect more consumers with their homegrown food products. Our government is committed to working with farmers to bring more Ontario food to the table. I tell you, when you buy Ontario, everybody wins. The environment—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

DARLINGTON NUCLEAR

GENERATING STATION

Mr. John O’Toole: My question is to the Minister of Energy and Infrastructure. Minister, on February 22, I asked you a question about the new build at the Darlington generating station, yet we’ve heard nothing. At that time, you said, “Our intention” certainly is “to move forward with the new build.” Also, in that response on February 22, you indicated that you have been in discussion with AECL and the federal government. Once again, we’ve heard nothing. For all this green energy talk, one would think that you would focus on a Canadian-made solution of green nuclear energy. Yet there’s no progress; there’s only expensive, unreliable solar and wind.

Minister, when can Ontarians expect the new build at Darlington to begin?

Hon. Brad Duguid: It has been challenging for our government over the last seven years to make up for the lack of investment in our nuclear industry that came as part of the total neglect of our nuclear infrastructure and of all of our energy infrastructure that came under the Tories previous to us. But we’re making great progress, and we’ve added 7,000 to 8,000 new megawatts to our power system. We’ll be up to 10,000 within another 24 months. We are absolutely committed to the refurbishment program that’s moving forward to modernize our nuclear fleet. We’re committed to the building of two new nuclear units as well.

Maybe what I’ll do is, I’ll save this for the supplementary, because I can use the help of the member opposite with his federal cousins in Ottawa.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary.

Mr. John O’Toole: He would probably know that Durham riding is home to many citizens, and indeed the whole area is very supportive of the new-build nuclear. It’s about jobs and the economy, after all.

We’ve heard the announcements from your government of the $7-billion backdoor Samsung deal and expensive FIT contract deals. You found time for this, yet we are still waiting for real progress on the new build at Darlington. The minister will know that the Darlington plant produces about 20% of the electricity that powers Ontario businesses and homes. This is a green, reliable form of energy in Ontario.

Minister, why does your government claim to support the new build at Darlington, but fail to give it any attention or to give it the green light?

Hon. Brad Duguid: It’s too bad that that support for the nuclear industry wasn’t there when that member and his party were in power, because we would have been a lot better off today had they made the investments that we have to make today to rebuild that system. I’m going to ask the member to do this: to contact his cousins in Ottawa, because we’re working very hard to try to reach an agreement with—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): A final warning to the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke.

Minister?

Hon. Brad Duguid: This is a very important decision for the future of our province, and we’re in discussions with the AECL and the federal government. But we need our federal government to backstop some of the risk involved in this agreement, like every other nation and every other nuclear business around the world does. We’re calling on the Harper government and we’re calling on the AECL to help us get to a decision here, help us get to a resolution. We recognize how important this decision is, and Ontarians are counting on the federal government to work with us on this, not against us.

PROPERTY TAXATION

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My question is to the Minister of Finance. Ontario’s municipalities rely on the Municipal Property Assessment Corp. to assess properties in a timely manner. According to André Marin, the agency is “grossly understaffed,” and frankly, Minister, those people are demoralized.

MPAC is currently bargaining with its employees. The number of MPAC managers earning more than $100,000 grew 50% in the last year. Worse than that, those managers received pay increases in one year of 5.3% to 12%. However, MPAC is telling its workers that they’ll get no increase whatsoever for the next two years. This double standard could force people out on strike and disrupt assessments.

Will you tell MPAC to negotiate fairly to protect the public interest?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I remind the member opposite that we have frozen non-bargained compensation for all agencies of the government, including MPAC. I know that you voted against that, or I think you voted against it. I haven’t looked at the Hansard of your vote. So let’s deal with that off the top.

With respect to collective bargaining, the collective agreement has expired, as I understand it. The parties will, I hope, continue to negotiate and hopefully resolve the differences that they have, and we look forward to a satisfactory resolution of the issue.

I’ll remind the member that the last time that André Marin brought forward recommendations—there were 21 of them—we acted on all of them. That member and his party actually voted against a number of those recommendations that we acted upon.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Municipalities are already affected by delays in assessments. As you know, Minister, MPAC has been in turmoil for 10 years. There was a botched restructuring which threw away decades of assessment expertise. There was a disastrous implementation of a new computer system with years of cost overruns. And yet managers continue to receive pay-for-performance bonuses despite a history of management non-performance.

MPAC receives no operational funding from the province. It is not covered by Bill 16. Forcing the employees out with unfair bargaining will hurt municipalities and the income that cities need to provide services. Will you tell MPAC to start thinking about the public and negotiate fairly with their employees?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: That member and his party have a history of stripping collective agreements, and they like to pretend it didn’t happen.

As I say, we have confidence in the collective bargaining process. We have confidence that the reforms that we have brought about to MPAC are serving the people of Ontario well. I would suggest to the member that he allow collective bargaining to operate freely. I know their history is against that, but our history is all about that.

We have great confidence in the public servants of this province. We have great confidence in MPAC—and I’d also remind the member opposite that MPAC is an organization that is run by municipalities. We participate, but at the end of the day we need to allow collective bargaining to unfold in this situation, as we do in many others.

VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I’d like to take this opportunity to welcome a group of grade 10 students from Delta Secondary School and their teacher, Mike Wagter, from Hamilton today.

DEFERRED VOTES

FULL DAY EARLY LEARNING

STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE L’APPRENTISSAGE

DES JEUNES ENFANTS À TEMPS PLEIN

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): We have a deferred vote on the motion for third reading of Bill 242,

An Act to amend the Education Act—

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I arrived in the House just a little bit late and I didn’t realize that the PC candidate from Lambton–Kent–Middlesex was in the audience.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): And the honourable member knows that that’s not a point of order.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Order.

We have a deferred vote on the motion for third reading of Bill 242,

An Act to amend the Education Act and certain other Acts in relation to early childhood educators, junior kindergarten and kindergarten, extended day programs and certain other matters.

Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1139 to 1144.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): All those in favour will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Aggelonitis, Sophia

Albanese, Laura

Arthurs, Wayne

Balkissoon, Bas

Bartolucci, Rick

Bentley, Christopher

Best, Margarett

Bradley, James J.

Broten, Laurel C.

Brownell, Jim

Cansfield, Donna H.

Colle, Mike

Craitor, Kim

Crozier, Bruce

DiNovo, Cheri

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fonseca, Peter

Gerretsen, John

Gélinas, France

Gravelle, Michael

Hampton, Howard

Hoskins, Eric

Hoy, Pat

Jaczek, Helena

Jeffrey, Linda

Johnson, Rick

Kormos, Peter

Kwinter, Monte

Leal, Jeff

Levac, Dave

Mangat, Amrit

Marchese, Rosario

Matthews, Deborah

Mauro, Bill

Meilleur, Madeleine

Miller, Paul

Milloy, John

Mitchell, Carol

Moridi, Reza

Murray, Glen R.

Naqvi, Yasir

Orazietti, David

Phillips, Gerry

Prue, Michael

Pupatello, Sandra

Qaadri, Shafiq

Ramal, Khalil

Rinaldi, Lou

Sandals, Liz

Smith, Monique

Sousa, Charles

Tabuns, Peter

Takhar, Harinder S.

Van Bommel, Maria

Wilkinson, John

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Zimmer, David

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): All those opposed?

Nays

Bailey, Robert

Barrett, Toby

Chudleigh, Ted

Elliott, Christine

Hardeman, Ernie

Hillier, Randy

Hudak, Tim

Jones, Sylvia

Klees, Frank

MacLeod, Lisa

Martiniuk, Gerry

Miller, Norm

Munro, Julia

Murdoch, Bill

O’Toole, John

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Savoline, Joyce

Shurman, Peter

Sterling, Norman W.

Wilson, Jim

Witmer, Elizabeth

Yakabuski, John

The Clerk of the Assembly (Ms. Deborah Deller): The ayes are 60; the nays are 22.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I declare the motion carried.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

CONDUCT OF HOUSE PROCEEDINGS

Mr. Bill Murdoch: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, and I ask you for your advice on this: I requested a late show for tonight. I wasn’t pleased with the answer I received when I asked my question. It was the question I asked to the Deputy Premier. She did answer, and the answer was, “I defer it to someone else.” That was her answer, I wasn’t pleased with that answer, and I feel that I have the right to request her to come here tonight and answer me on that. Now, I’ve been informed that that’s not an answer and that someone else—

Interjection.

Mr. Bill Murdoch: Does somebody else want to get in on this? You have a right to do that. You could speak after I’m done if you don’t like what I’m asking, but I think this is what democracy is about.

I’ve asked for a late show and been told that the person I asked the question to—I can’t do that. I find that she did answer my question; I wasn’t satisfied with that, and I should have that right as a parliamentarian here to request a late show to understand why that question was deferred. There must be a reason for that, and I’d like to know that.

So, Mr. Speaker, I’m asking you for your guidance on this. But as I said, I think I have that right to have that request.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I thank the honourable member from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound for his point of order. We did have the opportunity in the lead-up to the vote to have some discussion. I offered—and the Clerk offered—an

interpretation. He wasn’t satisfied with that, so I will take his point of order under advisement and will rule on that at a later date.

There being no further business of the House, this House stands recessed until 3 p.m. this afternoon.

The House recessed from 1149 to 1500.

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

JUNIOR HOCKEY

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: It is with great honour, privilege and pleasure that I stand here today to applaud the recent victory of the Oakville Blades. On Saturday in Sault Ste. Marie, the Oakville Blades defeated the Fort William North Stars in a 2-1 victory in the final game of the Dudley Hewitt Cup. The Blades ended the tournament with four wins and no losses—an awesome team.

In the game on Saturday, Blades forward Ryan Murphy scored the winning goal, breaking a 2-2 tie in the third period—very exciting. Mark McGowan had the Blades’ other goal, and goalie Daniel Savelli earned the win with 20 saves. Blades forward Kellan Lain was named the 2010 Dudley Hewitt Cup MVP for the tournament. Forward Kyle Badham was recognized with the tournament leading scorer award and forward Ryan Murphy with a championship game MVP for Oakville.

As a result of the team’s victory, for the second time in three years the Blades will represent central Canada at the Royal Bank Cup, Canada’s national Junior A hockey championship in Manitoba.

I would like to congratulate head coach Jason Nobili and the entire Blades team on their success. When they go to Manitoba, they’ll be meeting, amongst other teams, the Brockville Braves, from the home of the member for Leeds–Grenville, who sits directly behind me. We do have a small bet on the outcome of the Royal Bank Cup. Good luck.

When I say, “Good luck in Manitoba. Let’s bring home another cup,” I have an ulterior motive for cheering for them, to make that victory successful for Oakville.

DAY OF MOURNING

Mr. Paul Miller: The National Day of Mourning is a time to remember workers who have lost their lives and those they’ve left behind. I look forward to the day when workers are treated as individuals who are truly valued and respected.

But now, as summer appr