Manitoba Hansard — 13 October 2022 (Sitting 73B, 42nd Legislature, 4th Session)

42-4-73b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXVI No. 73B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, October 13, 2022 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon.

Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon. Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg, Hon. Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott, Hon. Assiniboia PC KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan, Hon. Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib.

LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg, Hon. Riding Mountain PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle, Hon. Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP REYES, Jon, Hon. Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew, Hon.

Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC Vacant Kirkfield Park

3237 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, October 13, 2022 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Deputy Speaker (Andrew Micklefield): Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Mr. Deputy Speaker: Introduction of bills? COMMITTEE REPORTS Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development Eighth Report Mr. Dennis Smook (Chairperson): I wish to present the eighth report of the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development. Deputy Clerk (Mr. Rick Yarish): Your Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development– An Honourable Member: Dispense. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Dispense.

Your Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development presents the following as its Eighth Report. Meetings Your Committee met on October 12, 2022 at 6:00 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building. Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 233) – The Engineering and Geoscientific Professions Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les ingénieurs et les géoscientifiques • Bill (No. 237) – The Drivers and Vehicles Amendment Act (Poppy Number Plates) / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les conducteurs et les véhicules (plaques d'immatriculation arborant le coquelicot) Committee Membership • Hon. Ms. CLARKE • Ms. MORLEY-LECOMTE • Mr. MOSES • Mr. SANDHU • Mr. SMOOK • Mr. WISHART Your Committee elected Mr. SMOOK as the Chairperson. Your Committee elected Ms. MORLEY-LECOMTE as the Vice-Chairperson. Non-Committee Members Speaking on Record • Mr. ISLEIFSON • MLA LINDSEY • Hon. Mr. GERRARD Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following presentation on Bill (No. 233) – The Engineering and Geoscientific Professions Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les ingénieurs et les géoscientifiques: Michael Gregoire, Engineers Geoscientists Manitoba Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 233) – The Engineering and Geoscien- tific Professions Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les ingénieurs et les géoscientifiques Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 237) – The Drivers and Vehicles Amendment Act (Poppy Number Plates) / L oi modifiant la

Loi sur les conducteurs et les véhicules (plaques d'immatriculation arborant le coquelicot) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Tabling of reports? [interjection] Oh, my apologies. The honour able member for La Vérendrye (Mr. Smook). Mr. Smook: I move, seconded by the honour able member for Seine River (Ms. Morley-Lecomte), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Cameron Friesen (Acting Government House Leader): I'm tabling a change in the sequence for the consideration of de partmental Estimates in the Committee of Supply for today, October 13th.

3238 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 13, 2022 Hon. Reg Helwer (Minister of Labour, Consumer Protection and Government Services): Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is my pleasure to table the following re - ports: Entrepreneurship Manitoba 2021-2022 Annual Report; Materials Distribution Agency Annual Report for 2021- 2022; and the 2021- 2022 Vehicle and Equipment Management Agency Annual Report. Mr. Deputy Speaker: And I'm pleased to table a following report: the Auditor General's report, audit of infor mation systems privileged access, dated October 2022, in accordance with the provisions of

section 28(1) of The Auditor General Act. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Mr. Deputy Speaker: Ministerial statements–and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes time was given. Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness Day Hon. Sarah Guillemard (Minister of Mental Health and Community We llness): Saturday, October 15th is Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness Day. Many families and individuals mark this day by lighting a candle in the memory of their beautiful little ones whose lives ended far too soon. The Walk to Remember was held earlier this month in St.

Vital Park in Winnipeg, and provided grieving families an opportunity to support each other on a path that nobody chooses to walk but many find themselves on. Mr. Deputy Speaker, an estimated 10 to 15 per cent of pregnancies end in mis carriage in the first trimester, up to 5 per cent in the second trimester. This represents many broken hearts living and walk- ing among us. There are hundreds more families that live with the soul -crushing pain of the death of their infants. Often there a re no explanations or answers for the passing, which only adds to the grief.

My husband and I have exper ienced the loss of three pregnancies. Each one represented the hopes and the dreams of an expanded family and each were loved the moment we had confi rmation of their existence. Mr. Deputy Speaker, our government recognizes the heavy grief that is carried by Manitobans who have experienced pregnancy and infant loss, and we are grateful for the programs offered through the Women's Health Clinic. Counse lling for individuals and groups as they navigate this heartbreak is key to healing.

To all of the parents in Manitoba who are hurting today, I see you, I acknowledge your sadness, and I grieve beside you. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas-Kameesak): Losing a child at any age of pregnancy or infancy is devastating. National Pregnancy and Infant Loss Remembrance Day, which is observed on October 15th, honours the lives lost to miscarriages as well as sudden infant syndrome, stil lbirths and newborn deaths. It is a day to counter the negative stereotypes surrounding infant loss through constructive conver - sation and action.

Parents who experience infant loss should have enough time and opportunity to grieve their infants. They s hould not be silenced or denied time off from their regular day-to-day activities. Currently, parents who experience miscarriages or stillbirths still have to cut into their sick leave, lose part of their paycheque or risk their jobs to take time off to heal. This is an impossible choice for many and could lead to long- term trauma if parents are not allowed time to grieve.

In some cases, mothers who have had a mis - carriage in their first trimester might have difficulty asking for time off if they had not disclosed their pregnancy to their employer. Fathers, on the other hand, have to bottle up their grief. Such situations compound the problem and make life more difficult for grieving parents. To this end, I urge the PC government to support Bill 219, which makes it possible for parents to take up to three days paid leave following a miscarriage or stillbirth. Grieving parents should not have to choose between mourning their children and putting food on the table.

Ekosi, Deputy Speaker. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I ask for leave to speak to the minister's statement. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Does the member have leave? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, the loss of a partly grown fetus during pregnancy or an infant during the first few months of life can be very traumatic.

October 13, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3239 It is important to recognize how traumatic this can be. I will share the experience that Naomi and I had with a loss occurring after about six to eight weeks of the pregnancy. It was exhausting physically and psychologically. As Naomi expressed it to me, the body needs time to heal after a miscarriage and for the hormonal cycles to get back to normal. Naomi con- tinues even today to mention–a few years later –that for her, her body was growing a fetus and the loss of that fetus caused hormonal changes resulted–resulting in feelings of deep emotional loss.

A cousin of mine and his wife lost a child to sudden infant death syndrome. It, too, was deeply impactful and I think may have been a trigger which led to the breakup of their marriage. There is no easy way to deal with their –these impacts. They are often underestimated, misunder - stood or overlooked. It is important that there's wider appreciation of what happens with pregnancy and infancy loss so that all can be support ive of families who are going through this process and trying to deal with a pregnancy or infancy loss. Thank you. Merci. Miigwech. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Bruce Benson Hon.

Derek Johnson (Minister of Agriculture): I rise today to recognize Bruce Benson, Gimli com - mercial fisherman, journalist, author and creator of the Flag of Humanity. In 2008, Bruce was hiking the Appalachian Trail with his 13-year-old son. As they walked, he began to ponder what kind of world his son would inherit. He concluded the world is messed up in many ways, but almost always based on the differences between us, between us humans. He began his work on creating the Flag of Humanity, celebrating the commonality of being human.

The mantra of the Flag of Humanity is: No matter a person's religion or lack thereof; no matter a person's skin colour, nationality or politics, these differences are as nothing compared to what we have in common. We are human. * (13:40) Flags are powerful things. Every nation on earth has one, and over the course of human history flags or banners have played an important

part in every political or social change. Bruce has travelled with the flag to many cou n- tries, at events too numerous to mention here today: crossing the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Alabama, a parade in mainland China and, most recently, the Old City of Jerusalem. Gimli flies the Flag of Humanity on a flagpole at the beach year -round and for five years it has been flown periodically on the Province's flagpole at Memorial Boulevard. It is flying there once again today.

Madam Speaker, join me in recognizing and applauding Bruce Benson's quest to unite humanity and focus on our commonalities as humans and not our differences so that we may pass on a better world to our children. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honour able Minister of Agriculture. Mr. Johnson: I know I can't hold up my Flag of Humanity–it would be considered a prop–but that's what's on all the desks here today. So, I just like to thank the member for donating these so we all have a copy of it. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Further members' statements? Who's next? All right, the honour able member for Notre Dame.

Gang Action Interagency Network MLA Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): Mr. Deputy Speaker, today I would like to recognize the work and important gains that community mem - bers are making in the lives of young Manitobans. The Gang Action Interagency Network, or GAIN Manitoba, is a network of agencies working on grass- roots solutions to prevent and reduce gang involve - ment in Winnipeg. Despite its very limited resources, GAIN has a monumental task.

Its mission is to raise awareness, collaborate and funnel those community resources to address the needs of clients –usually young people living in poverty in Winnipeg with very little family or social support in the orbit of gangs. GAIN helps communities with strategies for gang prevention, intervention or exit options for clie nts. GAIN has one-on-one relationships with these young Manitobans and connects them with supports when- ever possible. GAIN is now running a program along with Della Steinke, a local tattoo artist, to remove gang-affiliated

3240 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 13, 2022 tattoos from former gang members trying to start new chapters in their lives. Since 2016, Ms. Steinke has personally been donating her time, skills and materials to do the long and painstaking work of gang-affiliated tattoo removal for clients. Removing these prominent gang- affiliated sym- bols on visible areas like face, hands and neck have helped many clients find and keep employment and stay on new life paths. Another project which GAIN offers is the NewPaths Mentorship Program.

This seeks to im - prove the justice system's ability to reintegrate young offenders with the discovery of their identity through mentorship. One of the program's main objectives is to support participants as they create their own safe, positive, and healthy path towards employment and sobriety. GAIN, along with its multiple partner organ- izations, aims to improve the justice system's ability to reintegrate young offenders. As GAIN is a community-run and -funded organ- ization, I encourage all who are capable to assist in donating to this amazing program that has helped so many.

And I would like to welcome Ryan Beardy, GAIN co-ordinator, who is able to join us today, and sin- cerely thank him and all others involved for their tireless efforts to help heal and offer hope to those who are working to forge a better life. Thank you, Madam –thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Lac du Bonnet Community Events Hon. Wayne Ewasko (Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): It is my pleasure to rise today to deliver a private member's statement to con- gratulate all of the organizations that hosted amazing community events in the Lac du Bonnet constituency over the summer.

I would like to also applaud and give a big thank you to all the wonderful volunteers who play an essential role in making these events happen. N ow that we are transitioning into fall or winter months, there are still many great events to look forward to. Some of which include the annual Lac du Bonnet Ice Fishing Derby and the Canadian Power Toboggan Championships in Beausejour and Brokenhead. Plus, there are plenty of community fall suppers, curling bonspiels, hockey tournaments, craft shows, poker derbies and fundraisers throughout the constituency on any given weekend.

If you can, please support our communities by supporting their events and pl ease take the time to thank a volunteer. We are fortunate during all seasons in the Lac du Bonnet constituency. We have nine golf courses, some rated the best in Canada; amazing trails, like the Pinawa Trail, the Red River North Trail, the Blue Water South Trail and, of course, the Mantario Trail. Whether you enjoy hiking, cross -country skiing or snowshoeing, there is a number of picturesque trails for you to choose from.

There are also groomed snowmobile trails all throughout the constituency and within our great parks, which are very well maintained by local snowmobile clubs and their volunteers. There is no shortage of family friendly outdoor activities to enjoy in the Lac du Bonnet constituency. I encourage all of you to visit and immerse yourself in nature's splendor that is eastern Manitoba. I also would like to take this time to congratulate all the recipients of our government's sustainable building communities program. Our government was able to double its funding from $12 million to $25 million.

Close to $1.2 million were received with- in the communities of the Lac du Bonnet constituency. Again, I encourage all to come to the Lac du Bonnet constituency for a visit or a stay. We have something for everyone. Thank you– Mr. Deputy Speaker: Member's time has expired. South Valour Residents Association Mr. Adrien Sala (St. James): Mr. Deputy Speaker, it's my great honour today to acknowledge the in- credible work that the South Valour Residents Association is doing in my community.

It was found- ed in 2020 with a mission to foster community well - being in South Valour by connecting residents and building an inclusive and supportive community in which everyone belongs. The South Valour Residents Association is focused on community safety and connection, and they take a proactive approach that emphasizes com - munity activities to create a sense of belonging, cul - tivate shared green space and help people get to know their neighbours. The goal is to empower residents to see safety as a shared resource among com munity members.

One of the first projects they took on was a survey of residents to see what concerns they could help address. In addition to having a safe and connec ted

October 13, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3241 community, what they heard was that residents want- ed shared green spaces. As a result, the South Valour Residents Associa- tion has hosted neighbourhood cleanups and is in- volved in the work to protect and manage trees in the community. They have also partnered with the U of W to study grassroots, anti-oppressive approach- es to community safety. One exciting new initiative for the South Valour Residents Association is the Community Public Art Project. Members of the community are working with an artist to co-design an art piece.

Studies have shown that art projects like this help promote community safety and foster connection. They also had a great response to their first street party back in August, and I am excited that this will be an annual event in our community. The South Valour Residents Association is com- mitted to being inclusive and open to anyone who would like to get involved.

I would like to invite all members of the Chamber to join me in thanking SVRA board members: Stacy Cardigan Smi th, Rachel Andrushuk, Elizabeth Jackimec, Teresa Prokopanko, Hillary Gair, Kyle Wiebe and Jason Chartrand for the im portant work they are doing in support of my community. Thanksgiving Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): It's still Thanksgiving week, so I would just like to share a few words of gratitude. You know, this is a season of change and loss and celebration and a couple–I'd like to mention a couple of people we've lost lately. One is that I'm grateful for the life of Ron Mazur.

Ron was a wo nderful, tender, thoughtful person, a community who fought for green spaces. At one point he worked –I don't know how exactly he ended up being involved in returning the Bell of Batoche, which had been liberated from a museum. He worked with the Union nationale métisse Saint-Joseph to return the bell. But Ron is a really wonderful person and we just want to send our love to his wife, Joyce, who's mourning his loss. My aunt Jean, who was 93, died recently. She was my father's last remaining sibling, so it 's a real break with the past for me.

She used to ride a horse to a one- room schoolhouse in a town that doesn't exist any - more in Manitoba. But she was a wonderful historian and made a real con tribution to education, both in Manitoba and in Quebec. And there –of course, there are celebrations as well.

And October, for me –I mean, there's Thanksgiving, there's Halloween, three of my children have birthdays, which means that this is a big, big month for sugar consump tion, but they're terribly excited about it. * (13:50) But I also want to recognize somebody who's celebrating–who's celebrated both a historic wedding anniversary and it's his birthday today, the member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard). Now, I should–you should know, I'm not going to reveal his actual age, but it might surprise you all to know that the member for Tyndall Park (Ms.

Lamoureux)–being leader of the Manitoba Liberal Party really ages you–the member for Tyndall Park is actually the oldest person in our caucus, but it's simply that the wear and tear of age takes its toll on us. So, I just want to thank you, Jon, for your service and wish him a very happy birthday. Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker: I'm not sure how to respond to that. I'm just going to leave it. I'm good. Introduction of Guests Mr.

Deputy Speaker: I would like to draw the attention of all hon ourable members to the Speaker's Gallery where we have with us today Joshua Bruan, who is my guest–a grade 11 student from my constit- uency of Rossmere. On behalf of all honour able members, we wel - come you here today, Josh. Enjoy your time here. ORAL QUESTIONS Health-Care System Reduction in Service Concerns Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of t he Official Opposition): Patients and front -line workers at the Grace Hospital are speaking out. In fact, they're send- ing out an SOS.

This is after PC cuts have led to 13 nurses leaving the ICU at the Grace Hospital. That's just since this summer. This comes, of course, after this gov ernment cut nine beds at the Grace Hospital, and now we see the wait times growing month after month, and year after year. It's time for this gov ernment to stop cutting health care at the Grace Hospital.

3242 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 13, 2022 Will the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) stop cutting the Grace and start to invest in front-line health care? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): I want to thank all the health-care professionals on the front line at the Grace Hospital for their commit ment and their passion to serving Manitobans during this dif - ficult time, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Nurse staffing challenges are an –is an issue that many jurisdictions across Canada are facing, and it's actually being felt globally and it's not unique to Manitoba, but our gov ernment is taking action, Mr.

Deputy Speaker. That's why we're adding more nurse training seats, on track to reach 400 new nurse education seats, investing in seats in the North, welcoming new grad- uates to the health system, Mr. Deputy Speaker. And we will continue to do what needs to be done to address the staffing shortage. Mr. Kinew: What's unique to Manitoba is that we have a PC gov ernment that continues to cut health care. That's why we lost 13 ICU nurses from the Grace just since this past summer. That's why we lost nine beds at the Grace. We saw them cut the Mature Women's Centre at Victoria General.

We've seen them close QuickCare clinics and public access clinics across the city. They've even cut CancerCare access points from our provincial health-care system. The list of cuts goes on and on and on. And it seems like each and every day, this government adds more cuts to the list. When will they finally listen to the people of Manitoba and stop cutting health care? Ms. Gordon: We are listening, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, and that is why I was so pleased to have the opportun- ity to meet in person with the ED nurses at Health Sciences Centre, talking with nurses in the North, in Prairie Mountain, in Interlake -Eastern Regional Health Au thority. And those discussions will con- tinue–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Ms. Gordon: –but what is unique to Manitoba and what is unique to this government, that the NDP never did is that–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Ms. Gordon: –we have a $6-an-hour premium to staff for all hours worked in an ICU.

It also applies to staff in personal-care homes; a one- time ICU recruitment and retention initiative grant–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Ms. Gordon: –annual lump sum payment, up to $2,000– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Mr. Deputy Speaker, this past summer, 13 'intentive'-care units left the bedside at the Gra ce Hospital, and this gov ernment's only response has been to cut nine more beds from the Grace Hospital. People in Kirkfield Park are upset.

They look at that data, which is contained in the health author ity's annual report–an annual report that, each year, docu- ments new and damaging cuts to our health- care system instituted by this Premier. Folks in west Winnipeg and across the province are wondering when this gov ernment's going to cut health care. What does the Premier have to say to them? Ms. Gordon: Mr. Deputy Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition continues to put inaccurate information on the record, but I'm pleased to correct the record. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I am aware–and I'm not surprised that the Leader of the Opposi tion hasn't tabled that page from the annual report, because what he would see on that page is that those beds were temporary. And–but he doesn't want Manitobans to know that. But what I do want Manitobans to know is that the NDP seem to have forgotten their own record. It's not surprising. I would not want to–I would want to forget it, as well. The last two years the former NDP gov ernment was in power, Grace Hospital has–had the worst wait times for care in all– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The member's time has expired.

The honour able Leader of the Official Op posi- tion, with a follow-up question.

October 13, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3243 Infrastructure Spending Flood Protection Budget Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Health care in Manitoba today, under the PCs, is worse than it's ever been in history. Lake Winnipeg is also at some of the highest levels since the 1970s. Now, we know that this means that there's a real threat of flooding for com munities along the la ke, and that's why it's so im portant to invest in flood protections right now. Yet we've seen this government underspend their infrastructure budget by millions.

Last year, the gov - ernment underspent the budget for flood protection by $11 million. That's about 30 per cent. Which steps are the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) taking to protect communities along Lake Winnipeg from flooding? Hon. Doyle Piwniuk (Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure): Mr. Deputy Speaker, the Leader of the Op position should realize that, in our department, we are doing everything possible to make sure that our water levels in every lake in Manitoba are monitored.

And we are looking at resiliency projects to make sure that we actually invest in these projects, that we protect communities like Peguis, like Fisher River. We will continue working –and working with First Nation communities to make sure that we have solutions and they're at the table with those solutions, Madam Speaker–Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mr. Kine w: You know, it's im portant to invest in measures to protect against flooding. You know, we saw this earlier this year, overland flooding in com - munities like Siglavik and the region around Gimli.

The PCs have failed numer ous instances to get these sorts of flood protec tions built. We know that the channels project in the Interlake is going nowhere under this gov ernment, in spite of the fact that ranchers in the Interlake and on the west side of Lake Manitoba are very concerned that flood con ditions right now look like they did previous to other record flood years. Along Lake Winnipeg, there are also concerns. And we see in this year's Estimates books that this government has underspent flood protec tion budgets by $11 million. They underspent by 30 per cent in a record year of– Mr.

Deputy Speaker: The member's time has expired. Mr. Piwniuk: Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, if the member–the opposite –the Leader of the Official Opposition wants to talk about underspent in infra - structure, let's look a t their record –the NDP record, which the honour able member from Concordia was part of. They underspent in 2007 by $79 million. They spent–underspent in 2008 by $98 million. In 2009, they underspent by $120 million. In 2010, they under- spent by $132 million. In 2011, they spent–underspent by 122. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, these –the member–I'm not even going to take any comments from this member because the fact is, they could have got it done when they– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The member's time has expired. The h onourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. * (14:00) Mr. Kinew: Mr. Deputy Speaker, we need a calm and rational approach to dealing with the flooding issues around Lake Winnipeg throughout the Interlake. What we see defies logic and defies reason. In the Infra structure budget this year, this government has underspent by $11 million.

That's 30 per cent of the flood protection budget, and that is during a year of record-high water levels. Now, around Lake Winnipeg there ar e many concerns. Throughout the Interlake and on the west side of Lake Manitoba, people are concerned that the flood con ditions right now look a lot like they did prior to the flood of 2011. The government is not taking action, and they're not taking the issue seriously enough. When will they stop underspending, when will they stop the cuts and when will they start protecting from floods? Mr. Deputy Speaker: The member's time has expired. Mr.

Piwniu k: This gives me the oppor tunity to actually thank my staff.

3244 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 13, 2022 You know, this has–had been the historical record second worst flooding in Manitoba history. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Piwniuk: Mr. Deputy Speaker, we actually – there is about over $200 million–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Piwniuk: –of damage that was done by this flood. And when it comes to the parks staff, to my staff, the EMO staff, they worked around the clock, and they did a very good job.

And then m y staff who are also with MTI, who are now fixing a lot of the infrastructure, they are doing a great job and I want to thank them. Proposed Highway Access Road in Brandon Minister's Meeting with Developer Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Mr. Deputy Speaker, we've proven this week that the minister personally overruled the significant safety concerns that his de- partment identified just to award a permit to a party donor. Yesterday, the minister admitted in Estimates that he and another MLA met in private with the developer VBJ Dev elopments.

The minister then refused to answer any further questions or provide details on the matter. So I'd like to give him the oppor tunity in question period here today. Why did he keep those meetings secret and wh y won't he tell us who met with VBJ and on what date? Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance): Mr. Deputy Speaker, while the member for Concordia continues to take an aimless walk in the woods of innuendo and conjecture and allegation, let us wel - come him back to the path.

He's talking about a project that was prioritized by the City of Brandon, by the Brandon mayor, by the Brandon council, who believe in this project to bring economic dev elopment, to bring housing, to bring retail development to Brandon, who actually passed a motion in council to support it. So, let me be clear for the member that while the rules were followed, he better pick up the phone and call the City of Brandon to figure out whether or not– if they–if he even knows what t he level of priority is that Brandon has attached to this important project. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order.

Mr. Wiebe: Let's be clear, Mr. Deputy Speaker, VBJ Developments are not registered lobbyists in Manitoba, but their donor –their owner is a major donor to the PC Party and to the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) of Manitoba. They gave the max- imum allowed, in fact, to the Premier's leadership run. The minister has admitted that he was willing to overrule his own department's safety concerns after he privately met with that developer. Why did the minister keep these meetings secret, and who else in their Cabinet met with VBJ, and when? What is the minister trying to hide? Mr.

Friesen: That member is making ridiculous assertions that, somehow, every single piece of advice provided by civil service is automatically adopted by governments. That's not reasonable. That's not the way the rules work. Civil servants, executive managers of depart - ments, develop ideas; they develop initiatives. They present them to the minister for contemplation, for adjudication, and ministers and gov ernments make decisions on the basis of that advice in all cases. In this parti cular instance, safety is being fol - lowed. When it–with respect to this project, safety is No. 1.

If at any point in the future, safety is not observed, the project will not go ahead. Those condi- tions have been written in. Let them continue to make their baseless allegations. We know the NDP– Mr. Deputy S peaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for Concordia, on a final supplementary. Mr. Wiebe: I can understand why the Minister of Finance doesn't want the Minister of Infrastructure to answer, because he still doesn't deny that he person- ally overruled a serious safety and environmental con- cern after he met with a major donor to the PC Party and to the Premier.

The minister says that he met with an MLA and with VBJ to be lobbied about this permit, which the minister ultimately provided to that developer. So, I ask again: Why won't the minister answer for himself and tell us, why were these meetings kept secret and who else in Cabinet met with VBJ? What is he trying to hide from the people of Brandon and the people of Manitoba?

October 13, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3245 Mr. Friesen: It's quite some thing coming from the member for Concordia, who sat at the table when the NDP were in power, when Christine Melnick per - sonally sent directions to her civil servants to tell them to show up at the Legislature and be part of a political stunt. Quite some thing coming from the member of Concordia, who was there at the table when Steve Ashton gave personal contracts on Tiger Dams. This government will take no lessons on transpar- ency when it comes from the NDP.

We are standing with the City of Brandon, who has prioritized a project for economic dev elopment, and we stand with that city and its plans to expand these services for the city and its residents. Privatization of Aviation Services RFP for Consultant Review Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): This government has privatized much of Manitoba's aviation services, including wildfire suppression, air ambulance and air transport services. In fact, they've privatized so much of Manitoba's air services they're now hiring a private consultant to review all of the privatization that they've done.

On October 3rd, the PC gov ernment put out a request for proposals to provide aviation consulting services for contract management services to Manitoba, which I will table. Can the minister tell us how much this RFP will cost Manitobans? Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance): I'm happy to provide a bit of a history lesson and some context to the members of the opposition.

When our gov ernment formed gov ernment and undertook to review the arrangements for aviation and health care in the North, we realized that it was a broad array of arrangements that did not seek to get best value, did not set minimum safety standards. And our government took exception to that. On the basis of expert advice, we intervened. We created a system that created better reliability, better service, better continuity and higher safety standards. This member should know when she asked that question that she's taking exception to that higher level of standard that we've insisted on for people in the North.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a follow-up question. Request to Keep Services Public Ms. Fontaine: Clearly, the minister doesn't talk to anybody in the North, because we know that Manitobans have seen the impacts of PC privatization of air services. We've heard horror stories of people having to wait dozens and dozens of hours for air ambulance just to get the care that they need and they deserve. It's clear the government is aware of the issues that their privatization has caused, as they now have put out an RFP for aviation consulting services to evaluate all of their privatization.

Will the PCs reverse their privatization and keep Manitoba air services public? Will they commit to it today? Mr. Friesen: Manitobans know that the NDP are interested in ideology. Manitobans know that we, as a government, are interested in service, in safety and in being able to provide better services to Manitobans. We're talking about a 24- hour-a-day service, 365-day service of primary aircraft that have become more available. They are supported by addi tional backup aircraft that never existed under the previous government. The previous–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr.

Friesen: –government took no steps to modernize. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Friesen: They watched their fleet deteriorate to the point where pilots couldn't fly–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Friesen: –and the aircraft were constantly grounded. No wonder they want to yell down the answer. We stand on the side of safety, they stand on the side of ideology. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary. * (14:10) Ms. Fontaine: Air services have declined ever since the PCs sold them off to the highest bidder.

Manitobans are having to wait longer for air

3246 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 13, 2022 ambulance services, and just last week, a mother and her little newborn had to wait ove r 24 hours for a medevac after her child experienced seizures. Rather than address the issues with Manitoba's privatization air services, the PCs are instead giving even more money to private consultants. This makes absolutely no sense. Will the minister commit to reversing his govern- ment's priva tization of air services and keep them public? Mr.

Friesen: This gov ernment inherited a aviation service for the North that was in disarray, that had been mismanaged by the NDP. This RFP provides for the following: safe–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Friesen: –care standards, and universal standards for all the operators; a–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Friesen: –modern critical-care service. We now have airplanes that address the needs of Manitoba, including neonatal incubators and bariatric stretcher platforms. These were never in place. People sat near the runway, waiting for planes that did not come.

Now we have service standards, we have accoun- tabilities and we have better value for Manitobans. And we stand on the side of that, not on the side of ridiculous allegations that the NDP are raising. Government Network Services Bell MTS Contract Extension Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): In 2020, on behalf of the Manitoba government, Paul Beauregard award- ed a contract extension to Bell MTS for gov ernment network services worth $37.5 million. This contract was awarded without competition and despite the fact that Paul Beauregard was a former MTS executive.

Now, through FIPPA, we've learned that this contract will expire on December 31st of this year, but Bell MTS will have the op portunity for another extension. And I'll table the document. Can the minister tell us whether Bell MT S will award yet another extension? Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance): I want to caution the member for reprehensible be - haviour that he's exhibiting in this Legislature. It really goes beyond the pale to be identifying the names of senior civi l servants who worked for this government.

I ask that the member apologize to this Legislature for calling out the names of senior civil servants who gave their time and their expertise to help lead this province. No wonder his colleague, who tried t he same stunt, was investigated and convicted for breaking our respectful workplace laws. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honour able member for Fort Garry, on a follow-up question. Mr. Wasyliw: Mr. Deputy Speaker, in 2020, Brian Pallister and Paul Beauregard inter fered on a data network contract with the Province. Instead, Bell MTS was given a contract extension significantly richer than the original deal.

At the end of 2020, the extension wi ll be over. But Bell MTS had the op portunity for yet another extension. So, FIPPA docu ments, which I will table, show the tender deadline was September 14th, 2022. The question is simple: Was Bell MTS awarded another contract extension? Mr. Friesen: Mr. Deputy Speaker, that's more than obtuse; that's just belligerent. When given the oppor - tunity to apologize and desist, he doubles down.

No wonder an investigator that was inde pendent found that the NDP MLA over there breached the Legislature's own respectful workplace policy when he made comments previously about a senior civil service–a civil servant. At that time, the member for St. James (Mr. Sala) was investigated for bullying, harassing, offending and embar rassing a senior civil servant. Will that member take this op portunity to think twice, reflect, dig deep and apologize to this Legislature and to that individual? Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Wasyliw: Situation is very, ver y simple, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Given the previous inter ference by Paul Beauregard and Brian Pallister, we are asking for transparency from this gov ernment. Manitobans de - serve to know whether the PC gov ernment is ex - tending contracts–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order.

October 13, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3247 Mr. Wasyliw: –without any competition. The minister should explain whether Bell MTS received another contract extension and if this ex- tension was granted without competition. Will he do so, today? Mr. Friesen: Mr. Deputy Speaker, you always hope that people will learn something from history. You at least hope that they will learn some thing from an in - dependent in vestigation into their own misconduct.

But it's clear today that the member Fort Garry –for Fort Garry has learned nothing from the previous in - vestigation into the conduct that was reprehensible by the member for St. James (Mr. Sala), who was actually cited for contempt and his attempts to go after senior civil servants. I wonder, who is the next senior civil servant who should live in fear that this minister's going to start naming them in the Legislature? Members –is it from Infrastructure? Health? Is it from Economic Development? Who does he want to cite for –in this way in the– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The m ember's time has expired.

Carbon Pricing Plan Government Intention Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): Shortly after being sworn in, the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) said that she would develop a carbon–a Manitoba carbon -pricing plan before December 31st of this year. So, it's simple: I'm asking the minister, again, can he confirm that this gov ernment will , in fact, meet the commitment that they have made, and will they be bringing forward a carbon- pricing plan by December 31st of this year? Hon.

Jeff Wharton (Minister of Environment, Climate and Parks): As the member knows, we continue to have dialogue with the federal government when it comes to carbon pricing, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We know that the Premier's had several discussions with the Prime Minister and his office, as well, regarding carbon pricing. As a matter of fact, we've also –and I know the Premier's asked about affordability as well, just recently. I'm sure the member's aware of, as well, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We'll continue to have dialogue with the federal government as we move forward on this very impor- tant affordability issue. Ms.

Naylor: Mr. Deputy Speaker, dialogue is a very fancy word for wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars on needless legal battles, and then finally abandoning that challenge of the federal price on pollution. The Premier committed publicly to bringing for - ward her own plan by December 31st of this year. It's so straight forward: Does the minister intend to bring forward that plan as promised, yes or no? Mr.

Wharton: As I said in my first response, it's quite clear that we're continuing to have dialogue with the federal government, and we'll continue to have dis - cussions in a col laborative manner to ensure that Manitobans, going forward, are also respected when it comes to affordability. Mr. Deputy Speaker, we know that Manitoba families are hurting right now. We know that the impact of the carbon tax is influencing how they operate in their daily lives. We'll protect Manitobans. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honour able member for Wolseley, on a final question. Ms.

Naylor: We know this minister has problems with deadlines, which is why this gov ernment put forward an amend ment through BITSA to push off accountability at Efficiency Manitoba, but this ques - tion is really straightforward. The Premier has committed to bring forward their own carbon price plan by December 31st of this year. Is that still the case, or have they abandoned this plan? Will the minister tell Manitobans today? Mr. Wharton: I'll certainly look forward to answer - ing her question on whether or not the NDP ever met deadlines. We know, when it comes to the environment , Mr.

Deputy Speaker, there was no plan, let alone a deadline. We have a plan to ensure that we move for- ward in a sustainable way for Manitobans. As a matter of fact, if the proposed carbon tax is imple mented in 2030, as it is now, at a buck–$170 per tonne, the average Manitoba family will be paying $1,145 more than they get back. * (14:20) Mr. Deputy Speaker, we're on the side of Manitobans.

3248 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 13, 2022 Individuals Within Labour Organizations Call for Inquiry into Sex Assault Complaints Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): We're con - cerned this gov ernment isn't taking our call for an inquiry into the cover -up of sexual harassment and sexual assault in labour seriously. There is no right door for survivors to go through, because when they file a grievance against a powerful representative and the investigations may be botched, the survivor is punished, fired, forced to sign an NDA to silence them for life –not just one time but many times over.

I table a report, the Canadian labour council in- vestigation into former CUPE Manitoba president Terry Egan, who has faced multiple complaints, along with an

article with multiple sources that say the report was a whitewash and the CLC lied. People who've signed NDAs can only speak freely if a court lets them, like at an inquiry: Is the government permanently closing the door on one? Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister responsible for the Status of Women): As I stated yesterday, that our government takes the issue of workplace safety very, very seriously. That is why we introduced policy change–a syste mic change to the culture and the policy within the Manitoba civil service.

That is why we have some of the strongest policies on place, why everybody needs to undergo harassment training and that there is a path forward for survivors to go with allegati ons and to have their cases heard. And I would urge that member to understand what the process is and to endeavour to follow that process. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honour able member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Lamont: You know, we're really, really con - cerned with the fact that in scandal after scandal in Manitoba, where everyone knows about some thing terrible going on, just how hard it is for people to get justice or even to speak up. At the police headquarters, we know there was bribery. That's no secret. The RCMP recom mended charges. But in Manitoba, nothing happens and there's no inquiry. Peter Nygård–police recommended charges. He's been charged in Ontario and Quebec, but in Manitoba, nothing happens, no inquiry. With countless Indigenous injustices, there's a grim silence of shared shame.

Everyone knows, but no one knows why it can't be addressed because no one will look into it. Will the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) or the Minister of the Status of Women meet with me and the people who want this inquiry held to hear their stories? Hon. Cameron Friesen (Acting Minister of Justice and Attorney General): We could not agree more with the member when he cites the fact that it is very important to maintain a respectful workplace. This is exactly why I referenced the conduct of the member for St. James (Mr. Sala) before and asked the member for Fort Garry (Mr. Wasyliw) to do better in his comments.

But I want to caution the member, when it comes to allegations about Crown services and how they determine the threshold for placing charges, I want to make absolutely clear to that member that he is talking about the basis of our judicial system, which is the in- dependence of the courts and the independence of in- vestigation. That duty is the sacred duty of Crown prosecutors and not that of the member for St. Boniface. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honour able member for River Heights, on a final supplementary. Individuals with Learning Disabilities Accommodation and Support Services Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): In spite of the fact that many Manitobans are working hard to help those with disabilities, all too often, individuals with learning disabilities are stigmatized, are bullied and are not provided the accommodation to succeed in Manitoba. Tomas Ponzilius, who's here in the gallery with us today, has a learning dis ability. He can attest to these ongoing issues from his personal experience.

I ask the Premier: What actions is she taking to create awareness of this issue and to help end stig- matization and bullying of those with learning disabil- ities and to ensure that they receive reasonable accom- modation when it is needed? Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister responsible for Accessibility): Our gov ernment, of course, finds it absolutely reprehensible whenever anybody bullies or mocks a person with dis abilities. There is nothing more reprehensible than that. And I extend my sincere apologies to the member in the Chamber today–in the

October 13, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3249 gallery–if he has ever been on the receiving end of bullying because of a disability. Our gov ernment is raising awareness. We are working with the com munity, and we are working with advocates to ensure that everyone in the province of Manitoba is treate d respectfully, that they have a path forward, whether it be a path to independence or a path towards employment, a place that they can live and work and exper ience and achieve their highest destiny– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The minister's time has expired.

Fertilizer Use in Agriculture Industry Sustainable Use of Nutrients Agreement Mr. Brad Michaleski (Dauphin): I understand this morning the Minister of Agri culture, and also the Minister of Environment , Climate and Parks (Mr. Wharton), joined Fertilizer Canada and the Keystone Agricultural Producers to sign a memoran- dum of understanding regarding nutrient stewardship. Manitoba has led the way in responsi ble fertilizer usage and was the first to sign an MOU with Fertilizer Canada.

Can the minister explain the importance of this agreement and what it will mean for Manitoba pro- ducers and agriculture in Manitoba? Hon. Derek Johnson (Minister of Agriculture): And I'd like to thank my colleague from Dauphin for the opportunity to speak on this matter. But first, I want to thank all the farmers who are leading the way with responsible and sustainable agri- culture practices. Manitoba farmers are familiar with the 4R approach: the right source at the right time and the right place at the right rate–a little play on words.

For sustainable agriculture, the right time is here, the right place is here, the right time is now, and the right source is our hard-working farmers. I hope I speak on behalf of all members in the Chamber here today when I want to thank these farm- ers for their efforts and wish everyone a suc cessful remainder of their harvest. Agricultural Crown Land Leasing Beef Producer Concerns Mr. Diljeet Brar (Burrows): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Manitoban farmers are concerned about access to Crown lands. Beef producers have told this gov ern- ment over and over that lease system is not working.

When will the minister address these concerns with changes to the Crown lands system? Hon. Derek Johnson (Minister of Agriculture): Mr. Deputy Speaker, our gov ernment is a listening government. And if the NDP don't believe, maybe they would believe Brent Benson, president of the Manitoba Crown Land Leaseholders Association. In an

article written by the Manitoba Co-operators about rent reduction of the Ag Crown lands, Brent Benson says, and I quote: It appears that Minister Johnson is actually listening to producers, and we are hopeful that the consultation process–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Johnson: –will develop more positive – [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, order, order. Members can only refer to other members, in - cluding themselves, by their portfolio or constituency name. That is confirmed by the clerks. So, I would request that the adjustment be made by that member.

The honour able member for Agri culture, you have a few seconds left. Mr. Johnson: I would like to table that article. And, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Brent Benson is right. We're listening. There is more positive change to come. Manitobans are encouraged to engage in our survey on engaged– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable minister's time has expired. Mr. Brar: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I request Minister of Agriculture to listen that I have met with many pro - ducers, including in Parkland and the Interlake. No one producer has told me that they can live with the changes this gov ernment has put in place.

This PC government is prioritizing money over people. When will the minister listen and take action and address his government's changes to the Crown land system? Mr. Johnson: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I'm hoping that the member can look at the date of the papers that I just tabled. This is a very recent article, and I just want to quote that again. The

article is written by the Manitoba Co-operators about rent reduction of any Crown lands. And Brent Benson says, and I almost quote, it appears that the Minister of Agri culture is actually

3250 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 13, 2022 listening to producers, and we are hopeful that the consultation process will result in more positive changes to come. Agriculture Department Office Closures and Staffing Mr. Diljeet Brar (Burrows): Mr. Deputy Speaker, the PCs have 'gutten'–gutted Manitoba Agriculture. * (14:30) Hundreds of positions have been left vacant. Dozens of offices closed. Lending activity to pro - ducers declined by 11 per cent last year. Altogether, it means less service and less support for our farmers.

When will the minister address the cuts his gov - ernment has made to the Department of Agriculture? Hon. Derek Johnson (Minister of Agriculture): I know the member has met with Manitoba Crown Land Leaseholders Association, so maybe he needs to meet with them again and realize that we are a listening government. We're acting, we have a plan. They have no plan, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sale of Social Housing Units Investment in New Units Needed Mrs. Bernadette S mith (Point Douglas): Six thousand people are waiting on a social housing list. Meanwhile, this government has sold off 1,800 units.

Hundreds of units sit empty because this govern- ment has cut the maintenance budget by 87 per cent. Meanwhile, we have how many people homeless? This former minister sold hundreds of units to the private sector. This gov ernment is following Brian Pallister's playbook. Why won't the minister reverse her government's cuts and ensure social housing is there for thos e that need it? Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Families): I'd like to remind the member opposite that it's our gov - ernment that has built 745 new social and affordable housing units since we formed office at a tune of $110 million.

That is in addition with having to deal with the billion-dollar maintenance and repair budget that we had inherited from the NDP. They didn't spend their repair–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Ms. Squires: –and maintenance budget fully every year, and therefore we had a billion-dollar deficit, a– [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Ms. Squires: –stock that was sliding into disrepair that we've had to come in and fix.

We've got a long way to go in repairing all of our housing stock, but that is so mething that our govern- ment is committed to, and we will work towards that year over year while building new social and afford - able housing units. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The time for questions is over. PETITIONS Bibliothèque Régionale Jolys Regional Library Mr. Nello Altomare (Transcona): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

The background of this petition is as follows: The Bibliothèque Régionale Jolys Regional Library has been served notice by Red River Valley School Division to vacate the premises currently situated in the auditorium of École Héritage school by March 31, 2023. The auditorium was originally built in the 1960s by renowned Manitoba architect Étienne Gaboury, and has been home to the JRL for 48 years. A photo of the auditorium captioned the regional library is published in a 2008 document titled heritage buildings in RM of De Salaberry and St. Pierre Jolys.

It is marked as an im portant modern building that could attain the status of heritage site. JRL and Red River Valley School Division have flourished from a mutually beneficial memorandum of understanding for 54 years. Their shared collection boasts over 50,000 books and has the fourth largest collection of French- language literature in rural Manitoba.

Students that are bused in from the neighbouring municipalities that do not have a public library, such as Niverville, Grunthal and Kleefield [pho netic], are provided with free access to the public library and its fourth largest collection of French books in rural Manitoba during the school year. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

October 13, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3251 To request the Minister of Labour, Cons umer Protection and Gov ernment Services to consider granting the auditorium to JRL by March 1, 2023.

(2) To request the Minister of Education to recog- nize the value that JRL provides to the student population of ÉHS, as well as the com munities of St. Pierre Jolys and the RM of De Salaberry.

(3) To request the Minister of Edu cation and Minister of Francophone Affairs to recognize that an MOU between the Red River Valley School Division and the JRL is mutually, financially, culturally beneficial.

(4) To request the Minister of Sport, Culture, Heritage to recog nize the heritage potential of this important building and its status in the com munity; and

(5) To request the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage to prevent any renovations to the auditorium that would destroy and devalue the architectural integrity of the building. This petition is been signed by Mona Péloquin, Catherine Robertson and Simone Lacasse and many other Manitobans. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Are there any further petitions? Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background to this–of this petition is as follows:

(1) The Bibliothèque Régionale Jolys Regional Library, JRL, has been served notice by the Red River Valley School Division, RRVSD, to vacate the premises currently situated in the auditorium of École Héritage school, ÉHS, by March 31st, 2023.

(2) The auditorium was originally built in the 1960s by renowned Manitoban architect Étienne Gaboury, and it has been home to JRL for 48 years.

(3) A photo of the auditorium captioned the regional library is published in a 2008 document titled heritage buildings in RM De Salaberry and St. Pierre Jolys. It is marked as an important modern building that could attain the status of heritagehood.

(4) JRL and RRVSD have flourished from a mutually beneficial memorandum of under standing for 54 years.

(5) Their shared collection boasts over 50,000 books and has the fourt h largest collection of French-language literature in rural Manitoba.

(6) Students that are bused in from neighbouring municipalities that do not have a public library, such as Niverville, Grunthal and Kleefeld, are provided with free access to public library and its fourth largest collection of French books in rural Manitoba during the school year. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To request the Minister of Labour, Consumer Protection and Gov ernment Services to cons ider granting the auditorium to the JRL by March 31st, 2023.

(2) To request the Minister of Edu cation recog- nize the value that JRL provides to the student popu- lation of ÉHS, as well as the com munities of Village St. Pierre Jolys and the RM De Salaberry.

(3) To request the Minister of Edu cation and the Minister of Francophone Affairs to recognize that an MOU between the RRVSD and JRL is mutually, financially and culturally beneficial.

(4) To request the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage to recognize the heritage potential of this important building and its status in the community.

(5) To request the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage to prevent any renovations to the auditorium that would destroy and devalue the architectural integrity of the building. And this petition has been signed by many Manitobans. Provincial Road 224 Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas-Kameesak): I wish to present the following petition to the Legis lative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Prov incial Road 224 serves Peguis First Nation, Fisher River Cree Nation and surrounding communities. The road is in need of substan tial repairs.

(2) The road has been in poor condition for years and has numer ous potholes, uneven dri ving surfaces and extremely narrow shoulders.

3252 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 13, 2022

(3) Due to recent popula tion growth in the area, there has been increased vehicle and pedestrian use of Provincial Road 224.

(4) Without repair, Prov incial Road 224 will continue to pose a hazard to man y Manitobans who use it on a regular basis.

(5) Concerned Manitobans are requesting that Provincial Road 224 be assessed and repaired urgently to improve safety for its users. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Infrastructure to complete an assessment of Provincial Road 224 and implement the appropriate repairs using public funds as quickly as possible. This petition has been signed by many, many fine Manitobans. Ekosi. Louise Bridge Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to the petition is as follows: * (14:40)

(1) Over 25,000 vehicles per day cross the Louise Bridge, which has served as a vital li nk for vehicular traffic between northeast Winnipeg and the downtown for the last 110 years.

(2) The current structure will undoubtedly be declared unsafe in a few years, has deteriorated ex - tensively, becoming functionally obsolete, subject to more frequ ent unplanned repairs and cannot be widened to accommodate the future traffic capacity.

(3) As far back as 2008, the City of Winnipeg has studied where the new re placement bridge should be situated.

(4) After including the bridge replacement in the City's five-year capital budget forecast in 2009, the new bridge became a short-term construction priority in the City's transportation master plan of 2011.

(5) City capital and budget plans identified re - placement of the Louise Bridge on a site just east of the bridge and expropriated homes there on the south side of Nairn Avenue in anticipation of a 2015 start. (6) 2014, the new City adminis tration did not make use of available federal infrastructure funds.

(7) The new Louise Bridge Com mittee began its campaign to demand a new bridge and its surveys confirmed residents wanted a new bridge beside the current bridge, with the old bridge kept open for local traffic.

(8) The NDP provincial government signalled its firm commitment to partner with the City on replacing the Louise Bridge in its 2015 Throne Speech. Unfor - tunately, prov incial admin istration–provincial infra - structure initiatives, such as the new Louise Bridge, came to a halt with the e lection of the Progressive Conservative government in 2016.

(9) More recently, the City tethered the Louise Bridge replacement issue to its new trans portation master plan and eastern corridor project. Its recom- mendations have now identified the location of the new Louise bridge to be placed just to the west of the current bridge, not to the east as originally proposed.

(10) The City expropriation process has begun. The $6.35 million street upgrade of Nairn Avenue from Watt Street to the 111 -year-old bridge is complete.

(11) The new Premier has a duty to direct the provincial government to provide financial assistance to the City, so it can complete the long overdue vital link to northeast Winnipeg and Transcona. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the new Premier to financially assist the City of Winnipeg on building this three -lane bridge in each direction to maintain this vital link between northeast Winnipeg, Transcona and the downtown.

(2) To urge the provincial government to recom- mend that the City of Winnipeg keep the old bridge fully open to traffic while the new bridge is under con- struction.

(3) To urge the provincial government to consider the feasibility of keeping it open for active trans por- tation during–in the future. And this petition is signed by many, many Manitobans.

October 13, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3253 Home-Care Services MLA Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background of this petition is as follows:

(1) Home -care workers in Manitoba provide skilled and com passionate care that helps better the quality of life for thousands of Manitobans.

(2) Robust home -care services are proven to reduce the strain on health services and demand for hospital beds.

(3) Home care reduces the demand for long-term- care beds as it allows people to continue living in their own space.

(4) Studies sh ow that a third of the 200,000 Canadians living in long- term-care homes could stay home with proper home-care support.

(5) Investing in home care saves money, as daily services cost half the price of a long-term-care bed and one seventh the daily cost of a hospital bed.

(6) The provincial government's cuts to home care in Manitoba has resulted in chronic staffing issues that caused the WRHA to cancel 27,000 home -care ap - pointments in the month of April 2022 alone.

(7) Many clients in Manitoba only receive home- care services once a day,

whereas countries such as Denmark offer up to six visits a day.

(8) Home-care workers in Manitoba are paid poor wages, are offered little benefits, lack sick time and are overworked, resulting in dif ficulty retaining and attracting workers.

(9) Home-care workers have been without a con- tract since 2017, due to this prov incial government's interference in labour negotiations.

(10) Investing in home care is a proactive approach that would save the Province millions of dollars as well as allow more Manitobans to age in place. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Health and the Minister of Seniors and Long- Term Care to imme diately increase invest ment in h ome-care services so that home-care workers can be paid a fair wage and clients can receive the level of service they require. This has been signed by Alex Hernandez, Tess Jalocon and Maria Bañas [phonetic], and many other Manitobans. Mr.

Mintu Sandhu (The Maples): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background of this petition is as follows:

(1) Home -care workers in Manitoba provide skilled and com passionate care that helps better the quality of life for thousands of Manitobans.

(2) Robust home -care services are proven to reduce the strain on health services and demand for hospital beds.

(3) Home care reduces the demand for long-term- care beds as it allows people to continue living in their own space.

(4) Studies show that a third of the 200,000 Canadians living in long- term-care homes could stay home with proper home-care support.

(5) Investing in home care saves money, as daily services cost half the price of a long-term-care bed and one seventh the daily cost of a hospital bed.

(6) The provincial government's cuts to home care in Manitoba has resulted in chronic staffing issues that caused the WRHA to cancel 27,000 home -care ap - pointments in the month of April 2022 alone.

(7) Many clients in Manitoba only receive home- care services once a day,

whereas countries such as Denmark offer up to six visits a day.

(8) Home-care workers in Manitoba are paid poor wages, are offered little benefits, lack sick time and are overworked, resulting i n difficulty retaining and attracting workers.

(9) Home -care workers have been without a contract since 2017, due to this prov incial gov ern- ment's interference in labour negotiations.

(10) Investing in home care is a proactive approach that would save the Province millions of dollars as well as allow more Manitobans to age in place. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Health and the Minister of Seniors and Long- Term Care to imme diately increase i nvestment in home -care services so that

3254 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 13, 2022 home-care workers can be paid a fair wage and clients can receive the level of service they require. This has been signed by many Manitobans. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Are there any other petitions? Seeing none, grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): On House Business, can we resolve into Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker: It has been announced by the– [interjection] The hon ourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Friesen). Hon.

Cameron Friesen (Acting Government House Leader): I ask that the House resolve into the Committee of Supply at this time. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The–it has been announced by the Acting Government House Leader that the House resolve into the Committee of Supply. Committee rise, Mr. Deputy–or, Mr. Deputy Speaker, please just take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ROOM 254 ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE AND PARKS * (14:50) Mr. Chairpers on (Dennis Smook): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the De partment of Environment, Climate and Parks. Questioning for this department will continue in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): As a follow -up to yesterday's question about wetlands, I wondered if the minister could tell us if any wetlands have been lost over the last year, and how much? * (15:00) Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Environment, Climate and Parks): I certainly ap preciate the patience of the table today, and the member from Wolseley.

We take –obviously, our gov ernment takes wet - land preservation very seriously, so we want to ensure that we're able to put on the record the actions that this government has taken and will continue to take when it comes to sustainable wetlands. Going back to 2018, we introduced –our govern- ment intro duced The Sustainable Watersh eds Act, which, essentially, will allow no net loss of wetlands benefit. So, again, we're enshrining in legis lation no net loss of wetlands. Class 4 and 5 can't be drained, as well.

Class 3, if there is an issue with a class 3, it would have to be–or drained–it would have to be set back to a 2:1 ratio; so essentially, we'd put two back for one that would be lost. Also, too, as well, the member would know, back in 2017–or if not, certainly you'll know now –that in 2017, the GROW Trust, as well, was introduced to the tune of $204 million. And, again, that's a sus tainable GROW Trust.

And we talked about trusts last week and how they work, and this is another example on how our gov ernment's invest ment will continue to protect our wetlands as we go forward; 2021, we also talked about watershed districts, too, as well, and added and conserved over 990 hectares of class 1 and class 2 wetlands. So, great work, great news on wetlands, and look- ing forward to your next question. Ms. Naylor: So, just to hav e it on –clearly on the record, the minister–I just want to confirm that you're saying that, since The Sustainable Watersheds Act of 2018, there in fact has been no net loss on wetlands?

And have there been any net gain of wetlands in Manitoba since that time? * (15:10) Mr. Wharton: I thank the member from Wolseley for the question. As we continue to gather some further infor ma- tion, I will put on the record and provide some further positive news when it comes to our watershed districts which, again, play a vital role in enhancing, you know, the–our watershed and our areas that we're trying to protect. Back on June 10th of this year, our gov ernment put out a news release essentially saying that the Manitoba government will invest over $3 million in

October 13, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3255 important work in Manitoba's watershed districts, essentially, again, expanding on that. And I wanted to just read into the record, if I may, some of the part nerships that we have and some that are actually new this year, in this fiscal.

And some of the watershed districts that we're speaking to, cur - rently are partnered with us, are: Alonsa; the RM of Arborg; the RM of Argyle; RM of Armstrong; RM of Bifrost -Riverton; the RM of Boissevain - Morden; City of Brandon; the RM of Brenda - Waskada; the RM of Brokenhead; town of Carberry; town of Carman; RM of Cartier; RM of Roblin- Cartier; RM of Coldwell, RM of Cornwallis; City of Dauphin; and the RM of Dauphin. And certainly more to add into the record, but I'll pass it back over to the member from Wolseley to refresh her last question, so I can get some more details on the record for her. Ms.

Naylor: For the record, I don't feel that there's been a clear response about net gain of wetlands in Manitoba, in terms of what results have been achieved and how much net gain there's been. I know I asked that question when we met yesterday and again today. But since that clarity isn't coming, I'm going to move on to ask about some thing that's referenced in the annual report on page 13.

It says that Manitoba implemented over 115 government-wide initiatives to reduce emissions and become more resilient to cli - mate change, and that these were–you know, was making significant progress on the Climate and Green Plan. So, could the minister tell me –I don't need a lis t of 115, because there's other questions to be asked– but if the minister could name at least some of these initiatives, perhaps the most substan tial ones, how much they cost, what was the actual GHG reduction amount from these initiatives and, you know, perhaps, the–yes, the cost per ton of those GHG reductions? Mr.

Wharton: So, to be clear, then, the member from Wolseley is putting on the record that watershed dis - tricts are not an im portant program for the NDP. So, I just want to make sure that that gets on the record. Water is water is water, Mr. Chair. We know that, and watershed districts play a vital role as we move forward. So, I just want to make sure that that is on the record that the member doesn't care about over 100 watershed districts a nd growing throughout this great province. I'll also take the op portunity to answer the ques - tion. As I said in my

preamble before, I said that I would gather some infor mation to ensure that the member from Wolseley had accurate information, and I'm prepared to put that on the record now. While individual wetlands may be altered, com - pensation and other protec tions ensure that benefits stay on the landscape, helping landowners and pro- ducers to farm the best and conserve the rest, and the best stewards of our land. Last year, 1,700.82 acres of class 3 wetlands were altered, more than $200,000 in compensations paid to enhance and conserve wetlands on the landscape. Win-win, Mr.

Chair, and certainly a responsi ble choice as we go forward to protect our wetlands. Ms. Naylor: Just want to remind the minister that Manitobans do deserve answers to these questions and help understanding the budget. And, yes, it took two different days and me asking the question multiple times, but thank you for giving me the answer that I initially asked for yesterday. Because, in fact, we are quite committed to wetlands and their protec tion as well as very interested in the work of watershed district boards. So, I'm going to come back to the question I asked.

Maybe you've had some time now to gather some information. But if the minister could name some of the so- called 115 gov ernment-wide initiatives to reduce emissions that were supposedly under taken in Manitoba just last year, we're all very interested in hearing about some of these projects: how much they cost and to what degree did they reduce GHG emissions. * (15:20) Mr. Wharton: I've–have areas here that the member was questioning on, so I'm certainly pleased to put on the record that we have increased ethanol content in gasoline from 8.5 per cent to 10 per cent and biodiesel from 2.5 to 5 per cent.

The efficiency trucking program will save 25 million litres of fuel and reduce GHG emissions over the lifecycle of the equipment. Manitoba Hydro's last coal fire generating unit was shut down and natural gas units in Selkirk were phased out ahead of

schedule in 2021. These actions, again, have reduced GHG emissions by approx- imately 56,000 tons.

3256 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 13, 2022 Despite the challenges from the pandemic–and we know that i t was two years of a challenge for all of us–Efficiency Manitoba was able to effectively achieve 69 per cent of their planned net electric savings, and 60 per cent planned net natural gas savings, as well, also contributing to net GHG reduction.

And also, the Manitoba Conversation and Climate Fund, that currently is sitting at $1.5 million but started out in 2020 at 600 K, also is helping to reduce emissions and advance the uptake of clean tech nolo- gies and practices in Manitoba as we move forward collectively to ensure we continue to reduce our GHG footprint here in Manitoba. Ms.

Naylor: So, the minister referenced the Conservation and Climate Fund, which we know was launched in 2020, and my understanding is–so, based on the budget, $1 million was a llocated last year for nine projects which covered innovation and clean tech, con servation, water quality, circular economy development and sector emissions reductions. Mr. Chair, $1 million is a fairly insignificant amount of money for, you know, t hese large – supposedly large projects. Can the minister say how much money all those applicants actually have requested over the past three years since this fund was launched? * (15:30) Mr.

Wharton: Again, I'll just start. There's a lot of information here to provide the member and the table today. So I'm going to start back, again, in 2021 with the Conservation and Climate Fund. When we started that fund, again, it was just under 600 K. And next fiscal, in '21-22, just under $1 million. And '22-23, now, the Conservation and Climate Fund is to be sitting at $1.5 million, as I mentioned earlier on in a response. Second to that, too, as well, we have to remember that this is a multi-prong approach our government is taking.

And again, we have a plan and we know that the members opposite in the NDP don't have a plan, never had a plan, so we'll continue on with our plan for Manitobans. And No. 2 is, again, the climate and green fund, which again is to the tune of $6.37 million. And also, the waste reduction and recycling support, again, another $8.7 million. And I ask the member to stay tuned for some more exciting news from that fund itself. Again, going towards GHG benefits. And also, the Low Carbon Economy Fund, LCEF, as it's known, to the tune of $66.8 million.

So, you know, we're totalling over $80 million in investments to help reduce greenhouse gases. I think it's a wonderful start. I know in six and a half years, we've moved the needle a lot compared to the former government who, quite frankly, doesn't have a needle to move forward. So, we're proud of our invest ments. We'll con - tinue to make invest ments to ensure we reduce our greenhouse gas footprint. Ms.

Naylor: I'm not sure if the minister recalls because I understand he was not the minister at the time, but when the conser vation climate fund was launched, the new criteria for projects, to apply for this funding, really pushed a lot of environment groups out of the way. And I asked many times about this in QP for many of our environ mental NGOs and other organizations who have really been leading the way in Manitoba in many years who suddenly didn't fit the criteria to apply for these new projects. But that aside, $1 million last year and $1.5 million this year actually isn't very much money.

So, I'm going to repeat my original question, which was: How much money have all applicants requested and applied for over the three years? Just so we can get a sense, you know –have you given out , like, 1 per cent, 10 per cent of what environmental groups have been looking for for their projects? Mr. Wharton: Could you repeat the last part of that question, please? Ms. Naylor: All applicants that have applied through the Conservation and Climate Fund: I'm looking for a total of what the application–what they've applied for, if we add it all 'udd,' have they looked for $10 million and $1 million was spent?

How many people didn't get that money? * (15:40) Mr. Wharton: And we all know, everybody sitting around the table know, the nee d for funding support has never been greater. We know that; we've seen that, particularly the out comes of COVID and the chal - lenges that not only Manitobans are having, but the world is having. So, we also know that many programs throughout government–doesn't matter what stripe of gov ern- ment–are typically oversubscribed. Well, I can tell the

October 13, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3257 member that this particular fund is the same. Conservation and Climate Fund is oversubscribed. However, as I did mention before, the fund con- tinues to adapt. We continue to adapt to the needs as we go forward, and we will continue to grow that fund as the need continues to grow as well. The member may or may not be aware, but we did a similar process with–in Municipal Relations.

When I was the minister th ere, we essentially moved to an online application process that stream lined the pro- cess for Manitoban NGOs and rolled in a number of outdated legacy programs that, quite frankly, were cumbersome for applicants to navigate and simply get a–you know, put in a application. So, we moved forward with the Building Sustain- able Com munities funds grant process through that single-application process. We do the same in Conservation, with the Con servation and Climate Fund.

It's a fund that now also has the support of staff, much like we had in Municipal Relations, where staff were there to support applicants and NGOs to ensure the application is done appropriately, so that nobody is left behind. So, we'll continue to, as we have from fiscal '20-21 to fisc al '22-23, grow the CCF fund as we go forward. As the need is growing, so will the gov ern- ment's commitment to NGOs. Ms. Naylor: So, in other words, if I want to know how much money all applicants have requested through the conservation climate fund, we'll have to FIPPA it to find that out.

The next question pertains to the environmental compliance and enforcement. I see on page 53 of the annual report that there are 55 FTEs in that de part- ment, and that there was a number of environmental compliance actions taken. But it's very confusing when you look at the en - vironmental legislation enforcement

summary for that year. From what I can tell, there's no –there were no warnings and no prosecutions for contaminated sites remediation, no warnings or prosecutions for The Dangerous Goods Handling and Trans portation Act, no warnings or prosecutions for the dangerous goods handling and transportation regulation, no warnings or prosecutions for the Hazardous Waste regulation, and a small amount of warnings for environmental accident reporting, for The Environment Act, for pesticides regula tion and litter regula tion, but no prosecutions.

Only a $2,540 fine–well, actually, sorry, I'm probably reading that wrong, but a minor amount of fines with–after 11 warnings and only two prosecu- tions for storage and handling of petroleum products. So it seems like, in 2021- 2022, I don't know if, magically, all Manitobans stopped breaking environ- ment legis lation, but I kind of doubt that's what happened. So, can the minister explain why no–almost no enforcement took place of all of these regulations and acts over a year? * (15:50) Mr. Len Isleifson, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair Mr.

Wharton: Certainly, I first off want to start off by thanking the department, particularly the environ- mental enforcement department led by our staff and their team, which are doing a wonderful job at en - suring that Manitobans are –No. 1, of course, they're being educated while the 55 FTEs are in the field and, again, ensuring that compliance is being upheld as they continue to go door to door as they have been, even during COVID where challenges were obviously faced. The department continued to go and ensure that Manitobans were being compliant and further educa- tion.

So, to the question from the member from Wolseley: it's quite clear to us here on page 53 that the department's work in educating and ensuring enforce- ment and compliance is in place is working. Mr. Chairperson in the Chair And I think this is a good-news story, and I think the member would agree with me. If these numbers were off the charts, then I think we would recognize that there'd be a challenge, but I think it bodes well for what the department has been doing.

I know the members opposite have an issue parti- cularly with the way de partments are being run, and that's shameful, but I can tell you that I stand be - hind the department for what they're doing. They're educating Manitobans, and that is the direct result of these numbers being where they're at. Ms. Naylor: Thank you for that answer.

And in parti cular, I'm interested in the fact that there were no prosecutions or warning around pesti - cide regulation when both the minister and I heard very clearly on com mittee the other night that any number of companies have been lying and using illegal pesticides for lawn care. That was reported by one of the speakers that the minister had invited to be here to support his bill.

3258 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 13, 2022 So, it's just shocking to me that no warnings or prosecutions have been used to address what we heard was a clear problem in Manitoba. But I'm going to ask a little bit now on a different topic. Back in 2020, there was a lot of fanfare about the Youth A dvisory Council. There was, you know, an announcement that the gov ernment was going to invest in a Youth Advisory Council for the Climate and Green Plan. There was a big announcement when the youth were selected and the work was going to begin. And since that time, almost three years, we've heard nothing.

So, I'd like to know what the results are of that work, what advice has been given and if the gov ern- ment has imple mented any advice from the Youth Advisory Council. * (16:00) Mr. Wharton: Certainly ap preciate the question, particularly about youth and their involvement in climate change. And parti cularly, the YAC, or also known as YAC. And I can share with the member that, when we were up in Yukon this past summer, we had the op- portunity to meet with a youth advisory group from Yukon.

And it was just a wonderful opportunity to not only understand from their perspective of what they feel needs to be done to move forward with the challenges we're having with climate change and in the environment, but actually have some actual, solid takeaways to work with with YAC here, and again, our Expert Advisory Council, who YAC report back to, as well, and government. So, some lessons learned up there. And during the last two years of the pandemic, of course, neither organization has been working to the capacity that they should be.

We will continue to and we are continuing to enhance op portunities for our youth to be involved directly with–and more–actually have–provide more infor mation and detail to the Expert Advisory Council as we go forward, and based on lessons learned when we were up in the Yukon during our conference on climate up in–up there. So, to the member's question: YAC is a very im - portant part of our gov ernment. Matter of fact, we started the Expert Advisory Council under this gov - ernment, and we started the Youth Advisory Council under this government.

We'll continue to enhance and grow their man- dates, both the EAC and the YAC, to ensure that we're getting a fulsome and, essentially, a–knowledge from all aspects and all gen erations, which we know is going to be very important for the next genera tion to lead us as we get into our twilight years of our lives. Ms.

Naylor: So, just for clarity on the record, I'd like the minister to confirm that the Youth Advisory Council, selected by his gov ernment, is still active, still meeting regularly, to this date, and if he could also share some specific advice that has been given and been implemented by his government. * (16:10) Mr. Wharton: Certainly want to read in the record some of the great work that YAC has been doing and where the path forward will lead and certainly, little bit, be repeating some of the first answer, but that's okay; we'll get it on the record for the member.

So the YAC mandate included meetings with the EAC as we shared –as they shared views from the youth perspective, as I alluded to earlier, and also assisting the EAC on a trans portation and water initiatives and advising the EAC on how to communi- cate and engag e with young Manitobans on climate. And that was an area that we were discussing earlier when I was up in Yukon, on how lessons learned can be beneficial as we go forward from our youth. The YAC successfully completed this work and drafted a report on communications and engagement.

Also, we have new members that were selected to join returning members as well, in '21-22 term, again, which officially began in January of 2021. And members were asked to provide their perspectives on Manitoba's green economic recovery, skills and train- ing and to refine their com munications and en gage- ment recommendations from their previous report. And then YAC, as well, worked on our green economic recovery, again, was shared at the green economic restart workshop event held in September of 2021.

And in addition, the YAC recommended dev- elopment of green jobs, a contract hub for Manitoba youth, and would help link youth to green em ploy- ment opportunities. And also, the YAC term was extended again to March 31st, 2022, and, again, to account for COVID– late start due to COVID-19, and the work of the YAC has proven both practical and applicable in ongoing work of the department, including energy strategy and the green trans portation strategy, which I allude d to earlier.

October 13, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3259 And I also mention that we're–the department has continued to enhance the structure of the YAC to ensure closer alignment with the Expert Advisory Council. We want to make sure that lessons learned are applied and also that there is no sil os being developed, because we know how im portant YAC is and the infor mation they can provide the Expert Advisory Council and our government.

So, commit ments are to be carried forward, including, again, a youth -focused climate survey through Engage M anitoba, which is a great portal getting information for Manitobans, and also followed by a youth -focused climate change en gagement campaign. So, lots of great work by YAC, and we're looking forward to continuing to enhance their structure as we go forward. And, Mr. Chair, may I? Would I–would it be okay to call for a two-minute bio break, please? Mr. Chairperson: The minister has requested a leave for–just a quick recess for, let's say, five minutes.

Is that all right with the committee? [Agreed] The committee recessed at 4:13 p.m. ____________ The committee resumed at 4:17 p.m. Mr. Chairperson: Will the Com mittee of Supply please come to order. Ms. Naylor: I'd like to ask the minister about the endowment funds and the 64 designated improvement projects. And I'd like to ask the minister if he can update us on the progress of those projects: How many have been completed and which projects have been completed? * (16:20) Mr.

Wharton: In March 2021, the de partment in - vested $20 million with The Winnipeg Foundation to establish Manitoba Prov incial Parks Endowment Fund to support park improvements in programming. As a matter of fact, the member will recall –I be- lieve it was our first day in Estimates–we talked about endowments and how they worked. And I think the member now has a better under standing in how that generates sus tainable cash flow for endeavours like our parks. Again, this funding is not a reduct ion of the de - partment.

It's actually –it's an invest ment that will continue to provide benefits to parks across the pro- vince in perpetuity. The funds are not designated to replace existing based prov incial park funding. So it's an enhance- ment, too. Again, the funds include a portfolio of several funds where Winnipeg Foundation manages and pro- vides oversight over all the funds.

Manitoba Parks Endowment portfolio funds are, and I'll put them on the record as follows: Prov incial Park Endowment Fund, prov incial parks incentive fund, Birds Hill Prov incial Park fund, Clearwater Lake Provincial Park Fund, Hecla/Grindstone Prov - incial Park fund, Hecla/Grindstone Prov incial Park fund–Cheryle D. Christensen fund, Paint Lake Prov- incial Park fund, Spruce Woods Provincial Park fund, Upper Fort Garry Heritage Prov incial Park fund and Whiteshell Provincial Park fund. Again, these funds are designed to encourage and receive private donations. Ad ditional donations will grow the fund.

We know that there are many Manitobans seeking to make philanthropic contribu- tions and leave a legacy of support for Manitoba prov- incial parks. We've seen that in the past and we know it will continue in the future. And since the fund was esta blished, more than $1.6 million in ad ditional funding has been invested in our treasured provincial parks.

Annual revenue produced by each fund may be used to support projects that include, but are not limited to: dev elopment and maintenance of trails, boardwalks and associated infrastructure; public-use facilities such as amphitheatres , shelters, day -use sites, playgrounds, equipment, docks and launches; park road maintenance; habitat restoration and en- hancement; historical assets and cultural sites; infra - structure to support programming; modern machinery and operational equipment; munici pal servicing of infrastructure; campground enhancements; an inter - pretive infrastructure to support programming; main- tenance projects to extend and/or enhance infra - structure facilities; or assets outlined, again, above, are eligible for project costs.

And furthermore, some of the other projects directly related to this year as well: some upgrades to the yurts at Camp Morton and Stephenfield; ac cessi- ble campsites in St. Malo; dock upgrades in Grass River; Centennial Trail improvements in Whiteshell.

3260 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 13, 2022 And one that I'm really proud of are the mobi-mats that were installed in Birds Hill this year. We've also installed mobi -mats last year in Grand Beach. I can tell you that the mobi-mats have made a different for Manitobans with dis abilities, and just a fantastic initiative and, again, I thank the park and their staff –park staff for their initiative moving forward, particularly with the mobi-mats. Ms.

Naylor: I ju st want to note that this is an enormous amount of public money that has been moved out of gov ernment departments and is being overseen by a foundation, and that non- government, non-public servants are making decisions about where this money goes. I noted that in '21 -22, the endowment fund generated $863,607, yet only $519,673 was spent. Can the minister explain why? * (16:30) Mr. Wharton: Again, the member from Wolseley is following the speaking lines of her –of the NDP by, again, throwing foundations under the bus; simply, they repeat that foundations like St.

Boniface Hospital Foundation, Concordia Foundation–they don't seem to have any trust in foundations, which is shameful. And now we're talking about a world- renowned foundation like The Winnipeg Foundation, who every year, year over year, contributes to the health and well-being of all Manitobans through many trusts and endowment funds and generating revenue for those funds, sus tainable revenue, so that Manitobans can enjoy many things. Like, particularly, our provincial parks. So, I just want to make sure that that's on the record, Mr.

Chair, that the NDP do not support foundations, whether it be Winnipeg Foundation or any other foundation. On that note, we do. Our gov ernment does support The Winnipeg Foundation and what they do. We know, and we had this discussion before, that $20 million generated $1.1 million last year. Now the question was, $565,000 was spent; that was a partial fiscal year. St. Boniface–or pardon me, The Winnipeg Foundation's fiscal did not align with the gov ern- ment's fiscal. So, there was a lapse of approximately half a year.

So, the numbers that the member alludes to is a partial-year funding, and certainly we know that, going forward, once we get better aligned with that foundation and how they roll out, we are looking forward to that fund and that–essentially, that founda- tion supporting Manitobans, supporting our parks. And also, the question on not -civil servants but– nobody getting involved in the actual dec ision making; well, actually, quite frankly, we go to Manitobans. We go to Engage Manitoba.

We have and we continue to, and will continue to go to Engage Manitoba, to ensure Manitobans have a say on where that–the outcome of that fund will be spent in thei r provincial parks. And then, certainly, it comes back to the de part- ment, and the minister's office has the oppor tunity to go through those recom mendations by Manitobans, and we move forward in a sus tainable way by–from the advice of all Manitobans when it comes to invest- ments in our parks. So that, I believe, will answer the member's ques- tion.

But again, it's shameful that the NDP continue to put on the record that they do not trust foundations in Manitoba. Ms. Naylor: The minister is spendi ng a lot of time putting a lot of fiction on the record today, and there is a sig nificant difference between handing over public dollars to a –to–sorry, to a foundation to dis - tribute versus private fundraising by a foundation. But, you know, I know the difference. We'll move on.

I have one final question about the endowment fund: Are these investments divested from fossil fuels, and was there any com munication between the en- vironment and climate department with the Winnipeg Foundation to ensur e that these invest ments were divested from fossil fuels? * (16:40) Mr. Wharton: We're going to refer–but I will read on the record though, I'm going to refer the member to go to The Winnipeg Foundation site –website and check out responsible investment.

So, I'm just going to read it in the record, so that I believe this will certainly answer the member from Wolseley's question and concerns, and how they look at investment. So, for many years, investors have included environmental, social and gov ernance, or ESG, con- siderations in their analysis. This is to say that some ESG assessment is inherent in traditional investment practices, and today it would be very rare to find a reputable firm not taking these factors into account.

October 13, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3261 Responsible Investment, or RI, is more rigorously defined and refers to the integration of ESG research and data analysis with normal financial information to support investment decisions. Each of Winnipeg Foundation's investment man- agers have a different mandate and stated policy approach to ESG integration. Socially responsible in- vestment is not new and each of the investment managers will employ –is well aware –is also well aware of how it impacts the companies in which The Winnipeg Foundation invests. It also has th ree pillars below.

I welcome the member to check out The Winnipeg Foundation web- site, under investment portfolio. Ms. Naylor: I'd like to give my remaining time for questions to the member from River Heights with the understanding that he will conclude at 6 minutes to 5 to give us enough time to close out today. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I know the minister has some interest in addressing the problem with radon contamination or pollution in many homes in Manitoba, and I'm just wondering if the minister can provide an update?

And I'm parti cularly concerned about situations of people who are on low incomes, who would have difficulty affording a sort of $3,000 mitigation, which is about what it often is, and they need some thing other than just a Manitoba Hydro loan at 6 and a half per cent or so. Is–what's the minister's plans in that respect? Mr. Wharton: I'd like to thank the member from River Heights for following up on that question. I know we had a brief discussion in the House a while back and we shared stories.

I shared the story that I'd actually gone out and bought a radon kit because I live in the Interlake and there were concerns of soil type potential ly having radon gas. And for - tunately, it came back negative. So, certainly, it gives you a little bit of comfort knowing the effects of radon gas. And really what we've done is –and what I con - tinue to do is, again, work with Public Health on this issue. It is a Public Health issue.

However, you know, we need to continue to have those conver sations on how best we can look at supporting, you know, potentially a program or some- thing going forward for less fortunate Manitoba families, to ensure that, y ou know, Manitobans are protected. Safety, as you know –the member from River Heights knows –safety is one of our No. 1 priorities, if not our No. 1 priority. So, we'll continue to have those conver sations with Health as we go forward to see if there's a whole- of-government approach on how we can work a fit for what the member's asking. So, I appreciate the question. Mr.

Gerrard: My next question, and it's probably going to be my last one –I need you to wrap up your answer by five–4:55–has to do with the most signifi- cant environmental pollutant for children, which is lead. And I know there was a second Intrinsik report, and that report talked about, among other things, doing screening of children to look at lead levels. But I wonder if the minister has a follow -up and a response to the second Intrinsik report? * (16:50) Mr. Wharton: I thank the member from River Heights for the question.

I just going to, again, just do a little bit of a catch- up here on the good work our gov ernment has been doing with respect to lead. Again, the Province completed extensive lead soil testing in 40 Winnipeg neighbourhoods. Over 2,000 samples were taken from 43 schools and 147 parks; 94 per cent–94.1 per cent of results were below guidelines. Additional testing in Winnipeg, in the city of Winnipeg, helps us deter mine where increased lead concentration may still be present in soil, and provide the Province and site owners with evidence-based actions that can be taken to reduce the risk and exposure.

And Ma nitoba Health has developed new educational material for public on–for the public on sources of lead and how to mitigate exposure. And again, to the question on the outcome of the last eccentric report, effective May 1st, 2022, elevated blood levels le ad–elevated blood lead levels will be recorded, reportable to Manitoba Health on an interim basis, to help identify sig nificant sources of lead ex - posure and determine next steps to address them.

And again, the inde pendent report and new edu- cational material developed by the Province to help identify, prevent exposure to all sources that it –lead, at–again, are–they're available at the website.

3262 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 13, 2022 So, good work has been done on the second part of that follow -up; we continue to ensure that Manitobans–children, particularly–are safe, and we'll continue to do that on a go-forward basis. Mr. Gerrard: Those are my questions. I pass it back to the MLA for Wolseley. Ms. Naylor: I think we're ready to ask the question. Mr. Chairperson: The hour being–hearing no further questions, we will now proceed to consideration of the resolutions.

Resolution 12.2: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $31,426,000 for Environment, Climate and Parks, Parks and Trails, for the fisc al year ending March 31st, 2023. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 12.3: RESOLVED there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $20,726,000 for Environment, Climate and Parks, Environmental Stewardship, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2023. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 12.4: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $3,270,000 for Environment , Climate and Parks, Climate and Green Plan Imple mentation Office, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2023. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 12.5: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $17,754,000 for Environment, Climate and Parks, Water Stewardship, for the fiscal year end ing March 31st, 2023. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 12.6: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $2,672,000 for Environment , Climate and Parks, Capital Assets, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2023. Resolution agreed to. The last item to be considered for these Estimates is item 1(a), the minister's salary, contained in resolution 12.1. The floor is now open for questions. Ms. Naylor: I move that line item 12.1(

a) be amended so that the Minister of Environ ment, Climate and Parks's (Mr. Wharton) salary be reduced to $21,000. Motion presented. Mr. Chairperson: The motion is in order. Are there any questions or comments on the motion? Is the committee ready for the question? An Honourable Member: Question. Mr. Chairperson: Shall the motion pass? Some Honourable Members: Yea. Some Honourable Members: No. Mr. Chairperson: I hear a no. Voice Vote Mr. Chairperson: All those in favour of the motion, please say aye. Some Honourable Members: Aye. Mr. Chairperson: All those opposed to the motion, please say nay.

Some Honourable Members: Nay. Mr. Chairperson: In my opinion, the Nays have it. * * * Mr. Chairperson: This–oh, sorry. Now I got to go back there–12. Resolution 12.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $9,225,000 for Environment , Climate and Parks, Finance and Shared Services, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2023. Resolution agreed to. This completes the Estimates for the Department of Environment, Climate and Parks. Is it the will of the committee to call it 5 o'clock? [Agreed] The hour being 5 p.m., committee rise. ROOM 255 FINANCE * (15:00) Mr.

Chairperson (Brad Michaleski): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order.

October 13, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3263 This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume con sideration of the Estimates for the Department of Finance. Questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Adrien Sala (St. James): It's good to be back here. You know, we're coming off the heels of two evenings of committee hearings on Bill 36, where we had an opportunity to listen to dozens of Manitobans come out, who took the time to create pre sentations on Bill 36, to learn about the bill, and to come have their voice heard here at com mittee.

And, you know, those who were paying attention to that –those com- mittee hearings –would know that it was nearly unanimous in opposition to the bill. We heard just presenter after presenter speak about their deep concerns with Bill 36. We heard a range of folks, not only private citizens but we heard some of the biggest businesses in the province express their concerns, which we raised yesterday in t he House. I wanted to give the minister an oppor tunity to share what he's learned from listening to those presenters that came to com mittee last Thursday and last Tuesday night. Hon.

Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance): Mr. Chair, I'm seeking a clarification from the clerk. When we began these proceedings for the Department of Finance and Hydro, the clerk gave advice to this table that we were not to speak on a bill that is before the Manitoba Legislature; a bill that has now progressed through first reading, second reading and through the committee phase and will be reported back to the Legislature for third reading report.

So, I'm asking for a clarification as to whether the line of questioning that the crit ic is undertaking is in conjunction with the rules because it sounds to me, based on the advice that we received in a previous Committee of Supply section, that he is contravening the advice of the Chair. Mr. Chairperson: I would–to say the member for St. James (Mr. Sala) is in order. His line of questioning is not going into detail about the bill, but he is referencing the events of the meeting generally. So, in that case, he is in order. Mr. Friesen: Mr. Chair, thank you for that clari fica- tion.

Not reflecting in any way on your author ity or your role in these proceedings, I'm asking for addi - tional clarifi cation based on the member's question and anticipating further questions. There would be a need for me to actually address the member's question in response by citing sections of the bill, but in pre - vious sections of these Estimates, I have been told that I cannot cite sections or speak with specificity about sections of the bill.

So I'm trying to understand how we can both ac - commodate the member and his right to bring questions at this com mittee–a committee that is con - sidering the Estimates of e xpenditure for the Department of Finance and of Hydro–but these Estimates–the books–the supplement to the Estimates of expenditure for 2022-2023, there is no reference in these materials to a bill that has completed committee stage in the Legislature.

I know from previous proceedings, when I was the critic for Finance –in probably 2014–I remember being called out of order for citing the budget and was instructed that I could not make reference to the budget as a reference tool for the Supple mentary Information for Legislative Review at the time. So I just need clarification as how I could, in good faith, answer the member's ques tion that will go to content without citing content from the bill, a bill that is not referenced anywhere in these docu ments; the supplement to the Estimates of e xpenditure for 2022-2023 for Manitoba Finance. Mr.

Chairperson: I would advise the Ministe r of Finance that he is free to answer the question posed by the critic, as long as he doesn't go into details of the bill. [interjection] The honourable Minister of Finance. Mr. Friesen: Okay, thank you for that clari fication, Mr. Chair. I will endeavour to keep my comments and my responses high level and you can provide addi tional guidance, as I said. There's no attempt here to reflect on your author ity or your role in these proceedings. Just simply looking for that explanation.

So, you can interrupt or provide guidance as you see fit, if you see me straying from your stated instructions. The member asked what I learned in com mittee. Well, we learned that some people in Manitoba expressed an opinion that they felt like the bill would

3264 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 13, 2022 cause 5 per cent increases year after year, so I wel - comed the oppor tunity in committee to be able to correct those individuals. And without citing the passages, and I won't read from the bill itself, but clearly, I cited those passages that indicated to those people who stated those con- cerns that the bill in way –no way, shape or form required annual increases of 5 per cent.

Rather, I was able to show them and point to them those sections of the bill that showed that there was a test to make sure there was a lesser increase and that the provisions of the bill actually work to hold down, not push up, annual increases. And some members who presented at committee actually thanked me for that information and indicated that they were unaware, previous to that explanation, how that bill's mechanism worked. We heard from other people who said that they felt that the PUB would be inter fered with. Some people stated that: interfered with.

And I was able to cite to some members who presented at committee sections of the bill that I won't refer to which indicated that actually, in many respects, while the PUB would continue to be that independent body that would fully consider and be responsible for rate setting and, based on applications by Hydro for their next rate, they would fully adjudicate, they would fully have hear - ings; even so, there were other provisions that actually extended the PUB's authority.

I won't cite those sections of the bill in this –in these proceedings, but those sections even went to things like account ability for charges. And there's a term that we use to refer to charges that the PUB can lay against a utility if they don't follow the orders that are issued to them. And those charges can actually be assessed on a daily basis. And that is referred to as an administrative penalty. And so this bill contains those things. And some of those members who were at com- mittee said, oh, I wasn't aware of that, and thank you for making me aware of that.

It showed me that while we believ e in these proceedings, we believe in Manitoba's structures that invite, probably in the broadest way in Canada, people to be present at com mittee, it clearly showed us that the NDP had been hard at work to obfuscate, to present the bill in a way that wa s not accurate.

And those admissions by presenters, time after time, that said, oh, I wasn't aware of that, or that wasn't clearly explained to me, or thank you for clarifying the record on this or that –it showed me that there had been a concerted effort by the NDP to undertake to obfuscate and to re-present the bill in its own terms. I think that's disappointing. I think that there's enough for us to debate in principle, on principled issues. There are differences of opinion that the critic and I can have.

I think it goes too far when the member alleges and when his party alleges that, somehow, you know, this government has a scheme. I don't even understand what would be the ration- ale for such a scheme. We've been very clear about what the bill does. It's designed to stabilize Hydro at a key moment when it's critical to do so with ac - cumulated debt–debt that will be paid off by future ratepayers. At the same time, it holds down annual increases. And, at the same time, it gives a broad mandate for the PUB. The member can dispute that, and he can debate it, and I will defend every day his right to do so.

But I have to say, it is discouraging that they resort to tactics like misleading the public in Manitoba in order to accomplish their political goals. Mr. Sala: Very disappointing answer from the minis- ter, and I'm sure that anyone who's tuning in here would be very disappointed to know that he has failed to reflect on what committee–what presenters to com- mittee had to say and the important perspectives that they had to share.

I think it's also just worth putting on the record that the minister seems to believe that there's some type of NDP conspiracy that has led to dozens of presenters coming to committee, that they were some- how here at our beck and call or that we had given them misinformation to present to committee and that somehow we were driving people here to speak about the bill negatively. * (15:10) That's patently wrong, clearly, and it's just also concerning to see that he continues to see the world through that lens and that he has failed to reflect on what those presenters brought forward.

Some of those presenters–specifically, the repre- sentative for the Manitoba Industrial Power Users Group–I would think, from this gov ernment's perspective, would be really important. Yesterday, we shared in the House a quote from the representative from the Manitoba Industrial Power Users Group. The quote was in relation to the impacts–the rate impacts that would occur if this bill were to pass. And I'm going to quote it for the minister, and I'd like to ask for his comment on this quote–and I can assure him that the representative for

October 13, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3265 the Manitoba Industrial Power Users Group was not an NDP plant. I will quote him: That will drive industry from Manitoba. It will destroy energy-intensive industry in this province. It will destroy jobs. It will destroy economic activity. End quote. Can the minister provide comment on this quote from the Manitoba Industrial Power Users Group, please? Mr. Friesen: There's a line from a Shakespeare play– and I think it might be Macbeth, but I might be mistaken–where one of the characters says: Me

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-4-73b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 4th hansardpdf 73b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	dec18826f98ee49db69e7be3ac97114b6e5e5c9c

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