Manitoba Hansard — 21 May 2024 (Sitting 59B, 43rd Legislature, 1st Session)

43-1-59b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session – Forty-Third Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Tom Lindsey Speaker Vol. LXXVIII No. 59B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, May 21, 2024 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Third Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello, Hon. Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma, Hon. Union Station NDP BALCAEN, Wayne Brandon West PC BEREZA, Jeff Portage la Prairie PC BLASHKO, Tyler Lagimodière NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian, Hon. Keewatinook NDP BYRAM, Jodie Agassiz PC CABLE, Renée, Hon. Southdale NDP CHEN, Jennifer Fort Richmond NDP COOK, Kathleen Roblin PC CROSS, Billie Seine River NDP DELA CRUZ, Jelynn Radisson NDP DEVGAN, JD McPhillips NDP EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni, Hon. St.

Johns NDP GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC HIEBERT, Carrie Morden-Winkler PC JACKSON, Grant Spruce Woods PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC KENNEDY, Nellie Assiniboia NDP KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP KING, Trevor Lakeside PC KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Dauphin NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom, Hon. Flin Flon NDP LOISELLE, Robert St. Boniface NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya, Hon. Notre Dame NDP MOROZ, Mike River Heights NDP MOSES, Jamie, Hon. St.

Vital NDP MOYES, Mike Riel NDP NARTH, Konrad La Vérendrye PC NAYLOR, Lisa, Hon. Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC OXENHAM, Logan Kirkfield Park NDP PANKRATZ, David Waverley NDP PERCHOTTE, Richard Selkirk PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP SALA, Adrien, Hon. St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHMIDT, Tracy, Hon. Rossmere NDP SCHOTT, Rachelle Kildonan-River East NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SIMARD, Glen, Hon. Brandon East NDP SMITH, Bernadette, Hon.

Point Douglas NDP STONE, Lauren Midland PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt, Hon. Concordia NDP WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC Vacant Tuxedo

1977 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, May 21, 2024 The House met at 1:30 p.m. The Speaker: Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS The Speaker: Introduction of bills? Committee reports? Tabling of reports? Ministerial statements? Members' statements. The honourable member for St. Boniface (MLA Loiselle). [interjection] I did so. The honourable member for St. Boniface has the floor. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Pluri-Elles MLA Robert Loiselle (St.

Boniface): L'honorable Président, c'est avec grand plaisir que je prends la parole aujourd'hui pour parler du travail phénoménal de Pluri-Elles, un organisme francophone qui a pour vocation de contribuer à bâtir des communautés francophones plus fortes d'un bout à l'autre de la province. Pluri-Elles œuvre depuis plus de 40 ans pour favoriser l'autonomie, le développement et l'épanouissement de chaque individu de la franco- phonie manitobaine, mais aussi des familles et des communautés grâce à des programmes et services de qualité.

Fondé à Saint-Boniface en 1982 par des femmes et pour les femmes, dès son début le nom Pluri -Elles reflète cette vocation d'origine : soutenir toutes les femmes. Au fil du temps, la mission de Pluri -Elles a évolué, et sa clientèle s'est élargie. Aujourd'hui , Pluri-Elles tonne – donne les outils nécessaires à tous pour grandir autant sur le plan personnel que sur le plan professionnel.

La clientèle de Pluri-Elles est très variée : les femmes et les hommes francophones, métis et immigrants ; les familles endog ames, exogames et interculturelles ; les enfants de zéro à six ans, mais aussi d'âge scolaire ; les adolescents et les nouveaux arrivants. Les programmes et services de Pluri -Elles sont gratuits et confidentiels, touchent le domaine des services sociaux, mais aussi les domaines de l'éducation, de la formation, de l'économie, de la culture et de la santé, et sont offerts au bureau de Saint-Boniface comme dans plusieurs centres ruraux.

J'aimerais particulièrement féliciter la présidente de Pluri-Elles, Michelle Lécuyer-Hutton, ainsi que tout son conseil administratif, pour leur beau travail au courant des années – sans oublier la directrice sans égale de Pluri-Elles, Mona Audette, qui prend bientôt sa retraite. Mona, ton amour, ton empathie et ton leadership auprès de ton équipe sont au cœur du succès de Pluri-Elles. On t'aime, Mona. En conclusion, merci à Pluri-Elles pour plusieurs de décennies de dévouement à l'égard de la communauté francophone du Manitoba.

Votre travail acharné auprès des femmes et de nos familles ne passe pas inaperçu, et nous vous en félicitons. Longue vie à Pluri-Elles. J'aimerais ajouter les noms de mes invitées au Hansard – Translation Honourable Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I rise today to speak about the phenomenal w ork of Pluri-Elles, a francophone organization dedicated to helping build stronger francophone communities across the province.

For over 40 years, Pluri -Elles has been working to foster the autonomy, development and fulfillment of every individual in Manitoba's Francophone community, as well as families and communities, through quality programs and services. Founded in St. Boniface in 1982 by women and for women, the name Pluri -Elles reflected the organi- zation's original vocation: to support all women. Over time, Pluri- Elles' mission has evolved, and its clientele has broadened. Today, Pluri -Elles gives everyone the tools they need to grow, both personally and professionally.

Pluri-Elles' clientele is very diverse: Francophone, Métis and immigrant women and men; endogamous, exogamous and intercultural families; children from birth to age six, as well as school -age children; teenagers and newcomers. Pluri-Elles' programs and services are free and con- fidential, covering social services as well as educa- tion, training, economics, culture and health, and are

1978 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 21, 2024 offered at the St. Boniface office as well as in many rural centers. I would especially like to congratulate the President of Pluri-Elles, Michelle Lécuyer-Hutton, and her entire board of directors, for all their hard work over the years–without forgetting Pluri-Elles' peerless director, Mona Audette, who is retiring soon. Mona, your love, empathy and the leadership you pro- vided your team are at the heart of Pluri -Elles' success. We love you, Mona. In closi ng, thank you to Pluri -Elles for decades of dedication to Manitoba's francophone community.

Your hard work with women and our families does not go unnoticed, and we congratulate you. Long live Pluri-Elles. I would like to add the names of my guests to Hansard– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. Pauline Ambec, Mona Audet, Nicole Gagnon, Michèle Lécuyer-Hutton, Daniel Mouflier Ricky Zimmer Mr. Rick Wowchuk (Swan River): Today I rise to recognize an outstanding young man in my constit - uency, Ricky Zimmer. The town of Swan River's CAO Derek Poole and CMHA Regional Director Marvin Fried worked together on a program for Ricky.

For the past 10 years, Ricky has done an out - standing job in cleaning of downtown Swan River, and making Swan River a better place to work and live. Ricky cleans up the downtown boulevards, parks, side streets, playgrounds and assists in cleaning up snow storage areas. When spring comes along, Ricky is fit up with safety gear and a cleaning cart and he is eager to take control of his responsibility. And he takes great pride in his work. Local businesses and passersby compliment Ricky for a job well done. Every May to October, Ricky is doing what he loves to do.

When asked why he has chosen to do this, his response is, someone has to do it. The town believes it's hard work that is needed and Ricky never complains, never refuses and he's always smiling. One day I posted a picture of Ricky in his gear carrying out his daily work and upon posting, the community's comments truly demonstrated the value of Ricky's endeavours. I might add, Ricky was proud of the attention he received by the many positive comments and support. Ricky, your efforts are so ap preciated, and you rock. Thank you for all you do in the community. Thank you.

Introduction of Guests The Speaker: Before I proceed with more members' statements, I want to intro duce some guests we have in the gallery. We have seated in the public gallery over the course of the afternoon, from École Selkirk Junior High, 33 grade 9 students under the direction of Matt Nickarz, and they're guests of the honourable member for Selkirk (Mr. Perchotte). And we welcome you here today.

École River Heights Theatre Troupe MLA Mike Moroz (River Heights): As a long-time theatre teacher, it gives me great pleasure today to rise in tribute to the talented members of the École River Heights theatre troupe, and their teachers, Kyle Collins and Tori Mallo. Established in 2021, Troupe 10336 was the first performing arts troupe in Manitoba to be recognized by the prestigious Theatrical Arts Education Association. Founded by 30 onstage and 10 backstage members, the troupe has established itself as a collective and inclusive space for students of all experience levels to develop their craft.

Hours spent in school theatre activities and per - formances enable students to earn points towards induction into the STAR Guild, Canada's only honour society to recognize theatre achievements in schools. Some 48 École River Heights students have been s o honoured. While in the troupe, students learn techniques in character development, storytelling and improvisation. The troupe participates in performance festivals throughout the year, the most important of which, Honourable Speaker, is the STAR Festiva l.

At the most recent STAR Fest, one student, Sadie Graetz, became the youngest performer in the country to earn an advanced placement in a category. Honourable Speaker, this troupe proves what theatre teachers have always known: that theatre isn't simply an optional course that fills out a student's timetable.

May 21, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1979 It's a pathway to discover how awesome they really are. At their 25-year reunion, these students won't be talking about grade 8 math, they'll be talking about the memories they're creating as part o f this outstanding troupe. And that lasts a lifetime. I ask the members of the Assembly to join me now in celebrating the École River Heights theatre troupe and their teachers Kyle Collins and Tori Mallo. City of Steinbach 150th Birthday Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): This year the city of Steinbach, Manitoba's third largest city, is 150 years old.

It would have been difficult for the 18 families who fled Russia in 1874 in search of religious freedom and opportunity to imagine what the area they call ed Steinbach would eventually become. Those early settlers, known as the Kleine Gemeinde Mennonites, had to improvise just to survive. Instead of building their homes on the traditional grid system, they divided their land in long, narrow strips on either side of the creek, so that all families would have access to water from their property.

Within a few generations, the strong work ethic of those early Steinbach residents moved from farm - ing to industry, and well -known businesses such as Barkman Concrete, Penner International, Loewen Windows, Steinbach Credit Union and Penner Foods were started. Often recognized as one of Canada's most generous cities, Steinbach still welcomes people from around the world. Immigration over the past decade from the Philippines, Ukraine and India to name a few, has made the community diverse and vibrant. As Steinbach celebrates its 150th birthday this year, there is much to look forward to.

Later this year the city hopes to complete the new Southeast Event Centre, which will finally allow graduations to be held locally and provide an arena seating capacity of 2,500 for hockey and 4,000 for concerts. And work on the expansion to the Bethesda hospital and the new operating rooms is also well on track.

Members of this House l ike to sometimes joke about the well-known Steinbach motto, It's Worth the Trip, but that has never been more true than today. * (13:40) I invite all of my colleagues on both sides of the House to come and visit Manitoba's third largest city and join in this milestone year of celebration. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. Wheat Kings Hon. Glen Simard (Minister of Sport, Culture, Heritage and Tourism): Honourable Speaker, Brandon is home to some of Manitoba's greatest athletes, many of them members of Br andon's very own U18 AAA Wheat Kings hockey team.

Their 2023-24 season was one for the record books. This past regular season, the Wheat Kings lost only one game, maintaining a near perfect run during their league play. Having 43 wins and only one overtime loss during the regular season, the U18 Brandon Wheat Kings have proven to be tough competitors. During the playoffs, the Wheat Kings defeated every challenger, earning them the title of Manitoba's U18 AAA Hockey League champions. As reigning provincial champions, the U18 Wheat Kings attended the regional championship tournament hosted by the Winnipeg Wild.

With the Thunder Bay Kings and the Saskatoon Blazers in attendance, competition was fierce. In what has to be the most exciting game I have ever seen in person, the Wheat Kings pulled out a 1-nothing overtime, golden goal victory to earn the right to represent the western region at the Telus Cup national championship in Nova Scotia. The U18 Wheat Kings continued to triumph over their competition, tak ing home a silver medal at the national Telus Cup. This was the Wheat King's first appearance in the Telus Cup since 2004 and the first medal for Manitoba on a national stage at this level since 2011.

The hard work, dedication and discipline displayed by this team is palpable. I have personally coached for and against many of these athletes in many sports, including minor hockey. And I can tell you that they are all fine athletes as well as people. These athletes and their coaches are absolute forces, showcasing team- work, talent and perseverance. I ask that the 2023- 24 Wheat Kings roster be added to Hansard and I ask that my colleagues to please join me in congratulating this year's U18 AAA Hockey League and western regional champions, the U18 Brandon Wheat Kings. You've made the Wheat City very proud.

Staff: Mike Brolund, general manager; Travis Mealy, head coach; Micheal Ferland, assist ant coach; Paul Mandziuk, assist ant coach; Melanie Wallace, team manager; Tyler Dittmer, video coach; Amberlee Brownlie, trainer; Cam McGhee, trainer

1980 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 21, 2024 Players: Dustin Bell, Jaxson Brick, Hudson Champagne, Cole Dupuis, Kaeson Fisher, Nash Henwood, Declan Hoad, Jaxon Jacobson, Aiden Laing, Jonah Lemoine, Cole Lobreau, Josh McGregor, Loughlan McMullan, Easton Odut, Nolan Saunderson, Ethan Stewart, Grady Taylor, Brady Turko, Owen Wallace, Colten Worthington Goaltenders: Burke Hood, Matthew Michta ORAL QUESTIONS Cyberattacks on Manitoba Institutions Request for Government to Address Mr.

Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): Today we're joined by a student from the Seven Oaks Met program who's been volunteering and working in my office and felt that it was very im- portant to ask the Premier a question on cybersecurity. So here we go. Honourable Speaker, in this day and age, Manitobans are worried about their cybersecurity more than ever, especially in this digital age. In March of 2024, the University of Winnipeg was hit with a massive cyber- attack that affected staff and students. SIN numbers, birthdates an d addresses were stolen by malicious hackers.

Is this Premier aware of the risks posed to Manitobans by cyberattacks? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): I'd like to thank the student from the Met School for asking a very impor- tant question which has been top of mind for myself and the rest of our team and really should be on the top of mind of everybody in the province. Sadly, the risks to cybersecurity and the threat from hackers around the world is increasing and seem- ingly ever-present. We've seen the gov ernment of British Columbia disclosed attacks from hostile state actors, as they described them.

Unfortunately, we also hear that for many com - panies in Manitoba, this is an ongoing reality of them doing business. We know that the Auditor General has weighed in a few times on related topics over the past few years. As a leader of a prov incial gov ernment, this is something that I take very seriously when it comes to people's personal health infor mation, when it comes to people's financial information, when it comes to so much of the data that we use on a regular basis.

Also, when we think about the Crown cor pora- tions and the service delivery organizations within the health-care systen, it really does underline how much work we have to do on the topic. We've been very direct– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Ewasko: I thank the Premier for bringing up the fact that just this past May, the BC government, which was under a NDP Premier, got hit with that sophis ti- cated cyberattack. And Manitobans are worried that our government could be next.

What is the Premier doing to ensure that we are not the next gov ernment to get hammered by a dangerous cyberattack? Mr. Kinew: Well, Honourable Speaker, I do respect the time constraints that led you to interrupt the previous answer, but I will pick up with the train of thought that I had prior to that brief interlude. When it comes to the issues of strengthening cyber- security here in Manitoba, we know that the threats being visited upon gov ernments across Canada are real.

We know that there was an attempted attack last year during the time when the previous gov ernment was in power, though they were under the blackout period leading up to the election. I've been engaging directly with the senior officials who are the experts on this file and asking them to undertake a serious project of being able to safeguard the valuable personal and private infor mation of Manitobans.

At the same time, every minister in our government understands that this is an im portant priority, and so whether this is the personal infor ma- tion that you have within a gov ernment department, such as the Depart ment of Famil ies or Health, or whether this is an arm's -length organization, such as one of the service delivery organi zations or a Crown corporation, we need to ensure that– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary question. Mr.

Ewasko: Honourable Speaker, SIN numbers, birthdates and addresses, to not only students but also potential staff, and so we know from this Premier that–we know that words have been said in the past with a lack of action. He stands up today again, talks about how his ministers are concerned, his ministers are aware, but what is the timeline that I can pass along to that

May 21, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1981 wonderful student from Seven Oaks Met program and his other students, but also Manitobans so tha t they can rest assured that there is some action? What's the timeline from this Premier for him bringing forward action on cyberattacks right here in Manitoba? Mr. Kinew: Apologize for the lack of clarity.

The action has already been taken and due to the constantly evolving nature of this threat, this action will have to be ongoing, continuous and with an ever- increasing level of so phistication to match the ever - increasing level of sophistication on the other side of the ledger. We know that in ad dition to hostile state actors, there's also an organized crime element to this and we've been working with the experts in the field both here in Manitoba, as well as nationally, to ensure that we meet the highest standards when it comes to cyber- security.

However, being able to say that you meet the highest standard today is no guarantee with respect to what tomorrow might bring. And that's why the commit- ment begins at every level of the organi zation and is asking the average person logging in to their computer to keep their password infor mation secure, and then proceeds right on to the senior experts who are charged with responding to the threats posed by AI, quantum computing and other innovations in this very threat - ening area. The reality is that you need a government that is on your side and that understands the nature of the threat.

You did not have that with the Progressive Conservatives– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Political Parties Election Rebate Government Priorities Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): Honourable Speaker, I just wanted to give a bit of a shout-out, considering May 20 to 24 is Manitoba minerals week, and I know that our side on this team had the pleasure of meeting with the Manitoba Prospectors and Developers Association.

And I know that the government missed the opportun- ity for a ministerial statement so I just wanted to give a bit of a shout-out to them. Honourable Speaker, families are making tough decisions every day when it comes to making ends meet, and what does this Premier prioritize? His taxpayer NDP subsidies going right to their political party. Manitobans want to know that their tax dollars are being well spent, but the Premier wants more for himself and his NDP party.

I've asked this a few times, Honourable Speaker, but no answers or acknowledg- ment: Why is the Premier increasing the taxpayer - funded political subsidy in Budget 2024? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): It's interesting that the member opposite wants to talk political parties the day after his political party's day-one election message to the people of Tuxedo was: No fair, we're not ready. * (13:50) We're focused on a–things that actually matter to the people of Manitoba, like fixing health care and making life more affordable.

The consumer price index update came out this morning, and it shows for the fourth consecutive month, Manitoba had the lowest inflation rate in the country. Table those documents for the member opposite to pursue his next line of questioning. Again, we're not putting up the mission -accom- plished banner, because Manitobans are still struggling under a rising cost of living. However, this statistical evidence is showing that the path led by our Finance Minister is producing results for you. More work to be done, but we're already making life more affordable.

The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Ewasko: Once again, Honour able Speaker, Premier, the NDP MLA for Fort Rouge, stands up and puts misinformation on the record. This is nothing new. When inflation and the carbon tax hit Manitobans in their wallets, our PC team responded by raising the basic personal exemption, which–going to help all Manitobans. We did this while removing tens of thousands of Manitobans from the tax rolls, and while saving every Manitoban money on every paycheque. Now the NDP has no plan to help Manitobans with rising costs.

In fact, they're contributing to rising costs with higher taxes. And what do they intend to fund with the extra tax dollars they collect? Their political subsidy paid directly to the NDP.

1982 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 21, 2024 My only question, think this is question No. 15, maybe 18, to the Premier : Why is he doing this, just raising the taxpayer -funded political subsidies to his own party? Mr. Kinew: I'd invite the member opposite to look at the Statistics Canada data. It proves incontrovertibly, new infor mation this morning, that your Manitoba NDP government is lowering inflation in Manitoba. And what does the statistical record show occurred under their watch? Hon ourable Speaker, 8 per cent year-over-year inflation. They took no action.

Instead, while they tried to send missive after missive, lawsuit after lawsuit to Ottawa over a misguided series of court challenges, they were content each and every single day in office to charge you and your family 14 cents a litre every single time you gassed up. We went–recognize–we recognized that we needed to help people in Manitoba. That's why we removed the fuel tax. The result is for the fourth month con- secutively, we have the lowest inflation rate in the entire country. When you look out at gasoline prices relative to a year ago, under– The Speaker: Member's time is expired.

The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Ewasko: Honourable Speaker, here's the facts. The NDP have cut summer camps. They've cut baseball. They've cut green teams. They've cut schools. They've cut daycare spaces. They've cut surgery options. They've cut Justice funding, they've cut parks funding, they've cut infra structure funding, they've cut emer - gency funding and now they've also cut funding to faith-based organizations.

Honourable Speaker, shelter costs are up 5.3 per cent, restaurant prices are up 4.1 per cent, health-care services are up 3.2 per cent–eye care and dental–and food prices are up 1.6 per cent. But they found the money in their budget to enhance the taxpayer-funded political subsidy for their own party. My question once again to the Premier, stop patting yourself on the back and answer the question: Why'd you do this? Mr. Kinew: Well, the answer is simple.

The reason why we're lowering inflation is bec ause Manitobans have been struggling for years under a PC government that was out of touch and only concerned with trying to buy re-election. We took real, substantive action, without worry - ing who gets the credit, to save you money. And now the results are in. Four months in a row, the latest–the lowest inflation rate in the entire country. But let's talk about food. The visits to the grocery stores that we know has been a significant increase in the average family budget.

We now see today that we have the lowest food -from-store inflation rate in the entire country. Lower than Ontario, lower than Quebec, lower than the national average. Again, it's a 0.6 per cent increase year over year, compared to the past year. I wish it could be zero, or even a decline in prices, but the reality is this: your government, under the auspices of our Finance Minister, has taken action to save you money, and a few months into the year, it's taking statistical evidence to show us– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. Introduction of Guests The Speaker: Order, please. Order, please.

If I could get you to stop the clock, we've got some guests in the gallery that are leaving right away. So I'd like to draw attention to all honour able members to the public gallery, where we have with us today from the CNIB Foundation hosting Manitoba advocacy day at the Legislature, as May is vision month in Canada. We have Garry Nenson, chief development offer– officer at CNIB; Hannah Guttmorson [phonetic] , puppy development trainer at CNIB; Midas, a guide dog; Jenna Fisher, program lead for the next gen CNIB; Melanne Bailey, parent of CNIB youth partici- pant; and Marsha Cowan.

On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you here today. Further, we have another group of students in the gallery. Seated in the public gallery again, over the course of the afternoon, from École Selkirk Junior High, we have 33 grade 9 students under the direction of Matt Nickarz. And they're here as guests of the hon- ourable member for Selkirk (Mr. Perchotte). Welcome.

And finally I would like to draw all attention–draw attention of all honour able members to the public gallery, where we have with us today Jaxon Szteina, Juanita Szteina, Greg Szteina, who are guests of the honourable member for Dauphin (Mr. Kostyshyn), and

May 21, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1983 we welcome you here on behalf of all hon ourable members. Manitoba Hydro Future Energy Needs Request for Plan to Address Capacity Mr. Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): Honourable Speaker, I have now brought up a few time s the very serious concern of Manitoba Hydro running out of energy capacity and have yet to get a simple straight answer. This Premier (Mr. Kinew) dismissed expert concerns about hydro supply capacity, and I –saying, and I quote, we have tons of megawatts. But the Premier has never clarified or attempted to define what he meant by tons of megawatts, and I table that

article here today. Contrary to the Premier, the former CEO of Hydro and the current CEO of Hydro have said Manitoba will need more generating capacity by 2029, the exact opposite of what this Premier is saying. So I have a very simple question: What is the Premier's plan to deal with energy generating capacity in this province for Manitobans? Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro): You know, our gov ernment recognizes that there is a need to build more gen eration in this province. That's not a surprise to anyone.

I think what is a surprise to Manitobans is when they learned what the previous gov ernment accom- plished in seven and a half years when it comes to new energy dev elopment. Do you know how many megawatts they developed, Hon ourable Speaker, in seven and a half years? Zero. Zero megawatts. That's their record. They sat on their hands for seven and a half years, had no plan, no vision for Hydro and now they come in here demanding some kind of an action when they did nothing for seven and a half years. We're developing a plan. We're going to get it done.

We're going to make sure Manitobans have access to reliable, affordable energy for generations to come. The Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Whyte, on a supplementary question. Mr. Khan: The answer to the question, what is the plan, saying we have a plan is not a very good answer. That's No. 57 this minister refuses to answer. He might not want to listen to CEOs. Well, how about he listen to the $1.6-billion investment that walk- ed away from this province to go to Ontario because this province doesn't have generating capacity due to this NDP government?

In an article, it says the exact same thing: Manitoba Hydro lacks the capacity to provide electricity to any new energy-intensive industry consumers. End quote. I'll table that

article here today. So I will ask once again to the minister: What is his plan to increase the energy capacity in this pro - vince, or will Manitoba lose another $1.6- billion investment? MLA Sala: I do appre ciate the question from the member opposite, because, of course, it is im portant that we talk about ensuring that Ma nitoba has the energy we need to meet the needs of Manitobans and to do that in a reliable way and in a way that's affordable.

I'll repeat again for the member opposite: that plan is in dev elopment, and we cannot wait to bring forward a plan that will e nsure that Manitoba Hydro stays public, something that, for seven and a half years, the members sought to under mine by selling off Hydro subsidiaries, trying to break it apart. * (14:00) That's their record, trying to split apart our Crown jewel. We're going to make sure Manitoba Hydro stays public while we do the im portant work of developing new generation while keeping rates afford- able and making sure Manitoba Hydro stays in the hands of Manitobans.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Whyte, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Khan: Well, we got a little bit of an answer. The minister said the plan is, it's in dev elopment. Well, Honourable Speaker, we have, from the former CEO and the current CEO of Hydro, that in five year s Manitoba will 'meach'–reach their capacity of energy and we will need more. A plan in development is no plan at all under this minister. Manitoba lost out of $1.6-billion investment. Under the NDP government, Manitoba Hydro tripled its debt to $25 billion.

This Premier and his minister have no plan to generate energy for Manitobans. Again, and FYI for Manitobans I forgot out there, there will be no Hydro rate freeze under this NDP.

1984 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 21, 2024 So the question is simple: What is the minister's plan, and again, the question, it's under development, is no answer at all. What are you actually– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. MLA Sala: Again, Honour able Speaker, I mean, I can't imagine the reaction of the average Manitoban who's hearing the members opposite asking, you know, why we're not working with total post-haste focus on generating more energy when they had seven and a half years to take action. What were they doing, Hon ourable Speaker, for seven and a half years?

We know what t hey were doing actually. They were focused on finding new and creative ways of raising hydro rates on Manitobans. Like, for example, when they used a BITSA bill to, for the first time in our province's history, legis late a 2.9 per cent hydro rate increase on Manitobans in the middle of a pandemic. That's what they accomplished when it comes to Hydro. What are we going to do? We're going to build new generation. We're going to make sure Hydro stays public and we're going to make sure rates remain affordable for generations– The Speaker: Member's time is expired.

Bail Reform and Violent Offenders Request for Implementation Timeline Mr. Wayne Balcaen (Brandon West): Last week three employees at a grocery store were assaulted with a prohibited wea pon. The Premier (Mr. Kinew) and his Justice Minister talked and talked and talked about bail reform, but they have failed and failed and failed to keep Manitobans safe. This assault is reported to have been as a result of an assailant being removed from the store earlier in the day. Three Manitobans were taken to hospital while on the job and the assailant was granted bail. Is the system working as you had planned? Hon.

Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): You know, after seven yea rs of inaction from the previous government, there's no wonder that retailers and business owners across our province are frustrated. Rather than investing in preventing crime, of course, the previous gov ernment let it skyrocket. They–in the last year of their government, there was 300 and–3,745 reports of shoplifting under $5,000, and a 44 per cent increase over the last –the same period the year earlier. We've committed to working with retailers, working with businesses.

A $300 rebate for security systems is rolling out, and Manitobans are telling us we're on the right path and we need to keep working with them to make our communities safer. The Speaker: The honourable member for Brandon West, on a supplementary question. Mr. Balcaen: Hon ourable Speaker, promises made and promises constantly broken, just like the failed 100-day bail reform promise of this NDP government. Shamefully, this minister has attacked the work done by the good men and women of the Brandon Police Service when he attempted to use crime stats as a weapon in this House against me.

That shows how misguided he really is. Unlike this minister, I've walked the beat and seen the impacts of the violent crime and these offenders. Why does this minister refuse to imple ment reforms that, unlike him, will accomplish something? Mr. Wiebe: Well, the stats are the facts, Hon ourable Speaker, and the member opposite knows full well that crime was skyrocketing under the previous gov - ernment. He only looks –needs to look to his right to look to all of the members–the former Cabinet members– who still sit in this opposition benches. We know that there is a path forward.

It's about working with retailers, working with busi nesses, and when it comes to partnering with law enforce ment, funding the kinds of programs that will actually make a difference about dealing with folks on bail. It's not about the blame game that the previous gov ernment undertook; it's about real funding and real programs that'll make a difference. Now, we're going to work with retailers to enable them, give them the tools that they need to keep their businesses safe. But ultimately, it's about making communities safer– The Speaker: Member's time is expired.

The honourable member for Brandon West, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Balcaen: Honourable Speaker, a young offender walked into a business with a prohibited weapon and the expressed intent of causing violence. Three employees were assaulted on the job and taken to hospital, and before they had even returned to work, the assailant was out on bail.

May 21, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1985 That is NDP justice. This minister says that the system is fixed; that's because the entire party is anti-community safety and anti-law enforcement. Why will this minister not admit to his bail non-reform in a complete and abject failure? Mr. Wiebe: Honourable Speaker, very concerning set of incidents that have happened lately, many with ties to organized crime.

So when the member opposite wants to talk about real action that can be taken, this party opposite can stop with the procedural poppycock and actually move forward on Bill 30, actually get the unexplained wealth bill passed in this House and show law enforcement–not just talk, but actually show law enforcement that we s tand with them, and we stand against unexplained wealth being accumulated by organized crime in our–[interjection] The Speaker: Order. Mr. Wiebe: –communities. That's real action. That's the kind of action this government's taking.

And that's the kind of action this government–the previous government never took. Health Sciences Centre Staff and Patients Request for Additional Safety Resources Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Roblin): Despite his promises to address the issue, nurses at HSC don't feel safe under this NDP government. Less than two weeks ago, at least one staff member was attacked at HSC, the second instance of a violent attack this year alone. Despite an email from govern- ment officials claiming that there was, quote, no risk to staff, patients or visitors, many health-care workers on-site were shaken up by the incident.

Staff were told to, quote, check in with each other. The brave health-care worker who broke this story said, quote, violence against employees is common. Yet no additional action has been taken since by this NDP minister to ensure the safety of health -care workers and patients at HSC. How many front -line staff need to be attacked before the NDP take action to protect them? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long -Term Care): The safety of staff and patients who are accessing services or providing direct care across hospitals in Manitoba is one of our top priorities in health care.

Over seven and a half years under the previous PC government, no action was taken to make sure that staff have improved safety and security at hospitals. The previous gov ernment took zero action to make sure that institutional safety officers would be on site at HSC or anywhere else for that matter. In six months, our government not only made sure that they were on site at HSC, but they're actively rolling out across the province. I want to reassure staff and nurses that our gov - ernment is going to continue to work with health leadership to make sure that safety and s ecurity is a top priority.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Roblin, on a supplementary question. Mrs. Cook: Over the weekend, staff at the Crisis Response Centre called for immediate action to improve patient and staff safety at the facility. Health -care workers were quoted in the media as saying, concern has been raised with the gov ernment, but that they believed, quote, bureaucracy and budgets were in the way of significant change. Staff said they were burned out and frustrated, and that morale was low.

Requests for additional safety resources, including another safety officer, have gone to the minister's office, but no additional resources have been provided so far. Will the minister provide ad ditional safety re - sources immediately for staff at the Crisis Response Centre, yes or no? MLA Asagwara: I just want to acknowl edge that there's a family in Manitoba that is dealing with a sig- nificant loss. And I want to respect what that family is going through. I also want to acknowledge that health- care workers on the front lines are also navigating a challenging situation.

It's im portant to centre these folks who are impacted as we do this work. * (14:10) You know, for seven and a half years, the previous government didn't take any action to roll out in - stitutional safety officers or make safety and security a priority at all across health-care sites, including the CRC, which was not slated by the previous gov ern- ment for any inter vention what soever. I've been in communication w ith folks there, making sure they know they have our support and working with leader- ship to make sure they have increased resources.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Roblin, on a final supplementary question.

1986 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 21, 2024 Mrs. Cook: HSC nurses voted against ratification this weekend. Among their list of noted concerns was the lack of safety within their facility. As an arbitrator told the union, nurses at HSC are under an unacceptable level of risk, and the MNU president was quoted publicly saying, we are not seeing the promised culture change; we're still seeing a ton of mandated overtime, and I think that we just have so many issues in health care right now that nurses are feeling really disillusioned. End quote.

No wonder these nurses are disillusioned when all this NDP minister could offer to protect them were safety officers with no equipment to do their jobs. Will this minister actually listen to HSC nurses and take immediate action to improve safety for patients and staff at HSC, yes or no? MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, it's nice that finally the member opposite and I agree on something. After seven and a half years of cutting health care, disrespecting health-care workers, turning their backs on them, firing them from the front lines, culture change is necessary in health care in Manitoba.

Which is why, from day one, our government has been listening to the front lines and working with them to move health care in a better direction. That member opposite and every single member on that side of the House have zero credibility on this issue. Manitobans don't believe them. Manitobans do not trust them. Manitobans know it's going to take years to fix the seven and a half years of damage the previous PC government did. We're going to do that w ork each and every day because we believe in our health-care workers and we believe Manitobans deserve the best health care in Manitoba.

Youth Removed from Spirit Rising House Safe Placement Inquiry Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): Honourable Speaker, last week, the Free Press published a story that children in care who were removed from Spirit Rising House were placed in independent living situations with little support, schooling discontinued and addiction and mental health needs not being addressed. Can the minister provide an update on whether these children are all in safe and appropriate placements? Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Minister of Families): Miigwech to my critic for that important question.

My top priority as minister respon sible is the safety and the care of children that are currently in the child-welfare system. And as soon as I found out about what was going on in Spirit Rising House, I ended our relationship with Spirit Rising House, and imme - diately our Families team got to wor k with all of our other partners to ensure that the children that were at Spirit Rising House, we were having individualized plans and that they are safe. The Speaker: The honourable member for Midland, on a supplementary question. Mrs.

Stone: I thank the minister for that answer, but according to the article, children as young as 14 and 15 have been placed into independent living situations with little to no support. So can the minister guarantee that this is not the case and that all children that have been removed from Spirit Rising House have been placed in ap propriate care placements with the ap propriate, adequate sup - ports that they need? MLA Fontaine: Miigwech to my critic for the question.

As I was stating in my first answer, I want to just acknowledge our team that got down to work and worked collectively with CFS agencies, authorities and all of our partners to ensure that we developed those individualized care plans for those youth that were staying at Spirit Rising House. And what I can share with the House is that all of those children have been removed safely from Spirit Rising House and are in places of safety and have the supports that they– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. The honourable member for Midland, on a final supplementary question. Mrs. Stone: Honourable Speaker, the

article has claimed that some of those children who were removed from Spirit Rising House have now gone missing. Can the minister stand up in the House today and confirm that all children who have been removed from Spirit Rising House are accounted for and in safe placements, or is the minister saying that this

article was incorrect? MLA Fontaine: As I stated in my two previous answers, we have our whole team that are collectively working together to ensure that the children that are in Spirit Rising House have their individual care plans to en- sure that they are safe and that they have the resources that they need.

May 21, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1987 It also leads me to share with the House that –I want to ensure that the House understands that our Budget 2024 is also investing $1.5 million in a range of addiction supports, including supports for youth. As well, we also have a $1.8-million strategy to develop a suicide prevention strategy. All of these measures are our commitment to en- sure the safety– The Speaker: Member's time is expired.

North End Sewage Treatment Plant Request for Financial Support MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): One of the largest sewage spills in Winnipeg's history hap- pened this past February, when over 228 million litres of raw sewage flowed into the Red River. Mayor Gillingham has said that he needs help from other levels of government to manage half a billion dollars of cost overruns for the North End Sewage Treatment Plant, or else, and I quote: Winnipeg ratepayers are going to be buried.

Will this gov ernment commit to increasing its contributions to help with cost overruns for the North End Sewage Treatment Plant, to finish this much- needed project? Hon. Tracy Schmidt (Minister of Environment and Climate Change): I want to thank the member from Tyndall Park for a very im portant question. I know that the health and safety of Manitobans is a top priority for our gov ernment, and that includes the health and safety of our waterways. We know that the North End pollution control plant has been in need of work for some time now, decades in fact.

And I'm really proud of Manitobans for finally electing a government that is ready to work with other levels of government. We're here to work with the City of Winnipeg, we're going to work with the federal government and we're going to get the job done. The Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a supplementary question. Red River Sewage Spill First Nations Notification MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): It is tragic how the health of the Red River and Lake Winnipeg continue to decline because consecutive governments have neglected aging sewage infrastructure.

Honour - able Speaker, First Nations living downstream on Lake Winnipeg have been forced to take legal action to protect the lake. It is unacceptable that First Nations were not notified by the minister responsible when the enormous spill happened in February. And over the weekend, we heard another 5.5 mil lion litres were spilled into the Red River in the same spot due to a hailstorm. Can the minister confirm if she has notified First Nations about this spill? Hon.

Tracy Schmidt (Minister of Environment and Climate Change): Just to correct the record an d to correct the member opposite, yes there was a sig nifi- cant spill over the weekend, however it was not at the exact same spot; it was in the general vicinity. It was not due to–it was not–[interjection] The Speaker: Order. MLA Schmidt: –it did not h appen at the bypass, at the south end waste pollution control plant. It was due to a extreme weather event.

I now that certainly Manitobans in the agricultural sector, I know that Manitoba Hydro is very happy at those increased rains, but unfortunately those extreme weather events do, unfor tunately, have unfor tunate results. You know, Honourable Speaker, we all want the same things– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary question. Timeline for Public Report MLA Lamoureux: Honourable Speaker, this neglect has affected wildlife and the livelihoods of com mu- nities that live downstream from the sewage spill.

Over 10 years ago, under the former NDP gov ern- ment, Lake Winnipeg was named threatened lake of the year due to unsustainable pollution levels. Manitobans want this government to take the con- tinued contami nation of the Red River and Lake Winnipeg seriously and mitigate future waste water runoff. The Minister of the Environment says that she has an in vestigation into the Fort Garry Bridge leak and that it is under way. When can Manitobans expect this investigation to be made public? * (14:20)

1988 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 21, 2024 MLA Schmidt: Again, I do want to thank the member opposite for bringing up a very important issue. Yes, there is an in vestigation. Yes, it is under way. No, I cannot share the results of that investi gation at this pint–at this point. What I would like to highlight, though, is our gov- ernment's actions that we've taken s o far. We have already committed $10 million to the city of Winnipeg to help them invest in their infra structure. We are strengthening The Environment Act. There will be more strengthening of The Environment Act to come.

I'd like to talk a little bit a bout the previous gov- ernment's record. Zero charges: not one charge under The Environment Act in seven and a half years despite millions– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. The Speaker: Order. MLA Schmidt: –hundreds of millions of litres of spills. Environmental inspections cut in half under their time, Honourable Speaker. And, in fact, the office of the Auditor General did a report on drinking– The Speaker: Member's time is expired.

Gas and Grocery Prices Manitoba's Low Inflation Rate MLA Mike Moroz (River Heights): Thanks to the gas tax holiday, our gov ernment has made life more affordable for all Manitobans, and once again, Manitoba has the lowest inflation rate in the country. This reduces the financial burden on families, putting food on their table and gassing up their vehicles. Could the Minister of Finance please share with Manitobans the good news released this morning by Statistics Canada? Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister of Finance): I'd like to thank my colleague for that question.

You know, there's a lot of good news coming out of Manitoba today, but today there's even more good news that we're looking forward to sharing. First of all, lowest inflation rate in the country for four consecutive months. Grocery price increases, the lowest increase in the country, 0.6 per cent, compared to a 1.4 per cent national increase, another huge thing to celebrate. And gasoline prices, while they increased 6.1 per cent nationally year over year, they declined 12.7 per cent in Manitoba because we cut the gas tax, Honourable Speaker.

All of this, of course, is in addition to the 21 new ways to save we brought in our budget, including help for renters, a middle-class– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. Green Team Program Allocation Reduction Mr. Trevor King (Lakeside): Honourable Speaker, the Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe) confirmed on Thursday that this iteration of t he Green Team program is distributing less money to fewer organi - zations, resulting in fewer jobs for Manitoba's youth. His answer to the tough questions was to list his chosen winners, not address the groups in the gallery that were on the outside looking in.

Notwithstanding the bad news, I'm proud of the groups that spoke up and held this gov ernment to account for its decisions. Will the minister be returning the $4 -million cut from Green Team to the Manitobans that need it most? Hon. Ian Bushie (Minister of Municipal and Northern Relations): I know the member opposite's been here for seven-plus months now, and I know he's had the op portunity in plus five days to look to the member from Fort Whyte who's chirping from his seat right now and have him apologize for categorizing Manitobans as winners, losers, targeting.

Shame on that–members opposite for having that narrative, for looking at Manitobans and categorizing them as winners and losers, when, Honourable Speaker, we as the gov ernment will stand up for all of Manitobans, we'll have the communication, we'll have the open-door policy, we'll pick up the pho ne, we'll answer the call, we'll get out to the com munities and we'll have the conversations time and time again with everyone in Manitoba because we know they never did it in seven and–plus years. The Speaker: The honourable member for Lakeside, on a supplementary question. Mr.

King: Honourable Speaker, the minister's office met with the Manitoba campers association on Thursday. They're about one group out hundreds that were left out this year. With $4 million less being spent, it stands to reason that 200 fewer projects would be funded and job spaces would be reduced by approximately 1,000. Will the minister be meeting with the 200-plus other organizations that did not have their projects approved?

May 21, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1989 Mr. Bushie: We had a great con versation with Kim Scherger of the Manitoba Camping Association. We're going to have a continued conversation later on today. So members that were left out of the Green Team process, we're going to sit there; we're going to get out there, have the con versations with the Camping Association. We're going to best support them with a truly all-of-government approach that we want to be able to take forward. So we are going to get out there.

We are going to give them much -needed resources to the camps, all Manitobans; 131 camps, Honour able Speaker, were funded under the Green Team process and more to come. We're out there, going to do more announce - ments and more great work for the people of Manitoba. The Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. Petitions? Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon.

Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): Pursuant to rule 34(7), I am announcing the private member's resolution to be considered on the next Tuesday of private members' business will be one put forward by the honourable member for Riel (MLA Moyes). The title of the reso lution is Supporting the Provincial Government's Universal Nutrition Program. The Speaker: It has been announced that pursuant to rule 34(7), that the private member's resolu tion to be considered on the next Tuesday of private members' business will be the one put forward by the honourable member for Riel.

The title of the resolution is Supporting the Provincial Government's Universal Nutrition Program. MLA Fontaine: I have a long request to

schedule House business for the remainder of the spring sitting period. I will table this request and also ask that it be entered into Hansard and considered by the House as printed. Is there leave for the following provisions to apply from today until June 3, 2024: General Provisions 1. In the event of a discrepancy between the contents of this leave request and the Rules, Orders and Forms of Proceedings of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, the provisions of this leave request are to apply. 2. The provisions of this leave request can be amended by unanimous consent. 3. For each sitting day of this period: (

a) recorded divisions may not be deferred, except during private members' business in accordance with subrule 24(7); (

b) with the exception of Monday, June 3, 2024, the bells shall ring for a maximum of five minutes on any request for a recorded division; (

c) matters of privilege and points of order cannot be raised during orders of the day, private members' business or orders of the day, government business; (

d) if routine proceedings has not concluded 90 minutes prior to the usual adjournment hour, the Speaker must terminate routine proceedings and proceed to orders of the day; and (

e) the Speaker shall not call petitions or grievances during routine proceedings on May 21, May 23 and June 3. House Business 1. On May 21 and May 23 during orders of the day, government busi ness, the House shall consider second reading of government bills under the limited debate provisions for specified bills contained in subrules 2(10)(

d) and (e), with the question to be put at the end of the debate for each bill. 2. On Tuesday, May 21, 2024: (

a) at the beginning of orders of the day, government business, the House shall resume second reading of Bill 212, with the Speaker to immediately interrupt the debate to put the question; (

b) once the question has been put, Bill 212 will be referred to the previously scheduled meeting of the Standing Committe e on Social and Economic Development meeting on Tuesday, May 21, 2024 at 6 p.m.;

1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 21, 2024 (

c) the House shall then consider second reading of Bill 30, including the hoist motion and main motion, followed by Bills 31 and 29; and (

d) the House is not to see the cloc k until all questions have been put. 3. On the following days, the government is to resolve into Committee of Supply at the beginning of orders of the day, government business for the consideration of departmental Estimates: (

a) May 22, 2024; (

b) May 28, 2024; and (

c) May 30, 2024. * (14:30) 4. On Thursday, May 23, 2024: (

a) during the first hour of orders of the day, private members' business, the House shall consider second reading of bills 201 and 211, with the Speaker to immediately interrupt the debate on each bill to put the question; (

b) the House shall then consider another eligible bill that has not been listed in this leave request, to be announced by the Official Opposition House Leader or their designate; (

c) at the beginning of orders of the day, government business, the House shall consider second reading of bills 33, 34 and 36; (

d) once all questions have been put, bills 29, 30, 31, 33, 34, 36, 201 and 211 shall be referred for standing committee consideration on Monday, May 27, 2024, at 6 p.m.; and (

e) the House is not to see the clock until all questions have been put and the committee announcement has been made. 5. On Monday, May 27, 2024, at the beginning of orders of the day, government business, the House shall consider second reading of Bill 37, The Budget Implementation and Tax Statutes Amendment Act, 2024. 6. On Tuesday, May 28, 2024: (

a) during the first hour of orders of the day, private members' business, the House shall consider concurrence and third reading of bills 207, 208 and 212, with the debate to proceed as follows: (

i) the bill sponsor may speak for up to five minutes; (ii) the–a member from another recognized party may speak up to three minutes; (iii) an independent member may speak up to five minutes; and (iv) the Speaker shall then put the question. (b)–[interjection] Sorry, which one? Okay. What are these called here? [interjection] Okay, sorry. Honour able Speaker, I'm just going to go back just a little bit. I apologize. (ii) a member from another recognized party may speak up to five minutes; (iii) an in dependent member may speak up five minutes; and (iv) the Speaker shall then put the question. (

b) if consideration of the bills identified in (

a) is not completed by 10:55 a.m., the Speaker shall interrupt debate to put the concurrence and third reading question on any remaining bills. 7. On Wednesday, May 29, 2024: (

a) at the beginning of orders of the day, government business, the House shall consider the report stage amendment to bill –did some- thing else happen? Can you guys stop–t o Bill 10, The Advanced Education Adminis - tration Amendment Act, under the following debate provisions: (

i) the sponsor may speak up to 10 minutes; (ii) a member from the official opposition may speak up to 10 minutes; (iii) an independent member may speak up to 10 minutes; and (iv) the Speaker shall then put the question. (

b) the House shall then resolve into Committee of Supply for the consideration of departmental estimates. 8. On Thursday, May 30, 2024: (

a) during the first hour of orders of the day, private members' business, the House shall consider concurrence and third reading of bills 201, 202 and 211, with the debate to proceed as follows: (

i) the bill sponsor may speak up to five minutes; (ii) a member from another recognized party may speak up to five minutes; (iii) the independent may–member may speak up to five minutes; (iv) the Speaker shall then put the question.

May 21, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1991 (

b) if consideration of bills identified in (

a) is not completed by 10:55 a.m., t he Speaker shall interrupt debate to put the concurrence and third reading question on any remaining bills; 9. On Monday, June 3, 2024: (

a) for the purposes of the conduct of House business on this day, bills 29, 30, 31, 33, 34 and 36 shall be considered a s specified bills, and shall be subject to the provisions for the concurrence and third reading completion day for specified bills referenced in subrule 2(14); (

b) at the beginning of orders of the day, government business, the House shall consider concurrence and third reading of all gov ern- ment-specified bills, in an order to be announced by the Government House Leader , or the order listed on the Order Paper; and (

c) in addition to the bills identified in (

a) and (b), the House cannot rise until royal assent has been granted to bills 201, 202, 207, 208, 211 and 212. The Speaker: Is there leave for the House to be bound by the provisions set out by the Gov ernment House Leader? Is there leave? [Agreed] Is there leave for the following provi sions to apply from today until June 3, 2024: General Provisions 1. In the event of a discrepancy between the contents of this leave request and the Rules, Orders and Forms of Proceeding of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, the provisions of this leave request are to apply. 2. The provisions of this leave request can be amended by unanimous consent. 3. For each sitting day in this period: (

a) recorded divisions may not be deferred, except during Private Members' Business in accordance with sub-rule 24(7); (

b) with the exception of Monday, June 3, 2024, the bells shall ring for a maximum of five minutes on any request for a recorded division; (

c) Matters of Privilege and Points of Order cannot be raised during Orders of the Day – Private Members' Business or Orders of the Day – Government Business; (

d) if Routine Proceedings has not concluded 90 minutes prior to the usual adjournment hour, the Speaker must terminate Routine Proceedings and proceed to Orders of the Day; and (

e) the Speaker shall not call Petitions or Grievances during Routine Proceedings on May 21, May 23 and June 3. House Business 1. On May 21 and May 23, during Orders of the Day – Government Business, the House shall consider Second Reading of Government Bills under the limited debate pro visions for Specified Bills contained in sub-rules 2(10)(

d) and (e), with the question to be put at the end of the debate for each Bill. 2. On Tuesday, May 21, 2024: (

a) at the beginning of Orders of the Day – Government Business, the House shall resume Second Reading of Bill 212, with the Speaker to immediately interrupt the debate to put the question; (

b) once the question has been put, Bill 212 will be referred to the previously scheduled meeting of the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development meeting on Tuesday, May 21, 2024, at 6:00 p.m.; (

c) the House shall then consider Second Reading of Bill 30, including the Hoist Motion and main motion, followed by Bills 31 and 29; and (

d) the House is not to see the clock until all questions have been put. 3. On the following days, the House is to resolve into Committee of Supply at the beginning of Orders of the Day, Government Business for the consideration of departmental estimates: (

a) May 22, 2024; (

b) May 28, 2024; and (

c) May 30, 2024. 4. On Thursday, May 23, 2024: (

a) during the first hour of Orders of the Day – Private Members' Business, the House shall consider Second Reading of Bills 201 and 211, with the Speaker to immediately interrupt the debate on each Bill to put the question; (

b) the House shall then consider another eligible Bill that has not been listed in this leave request, to be announced by the Official Opposition House Leader or their designate;

1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 21, 2024 (

c) at the beginning of Orders of the Day – Government Business, the House shall consider Second Reading of Bills 33, 34 and 36; (

d) once all questions have been put, Bills 29, 30, 31, 33, 34, 36, 201 and 211 shall be referred for Standing Committee consideration on Monday, May 27, 2024, at 6:00 p.m.; and (

e) the House is not to see the clock until all questions have been put and the Committee announcement has been made. 5. On Monday, May 27, 2024, at the beginning of Orders of the Day – Government Business, the House shall consider Second Reading of Bill 37 – The Budget Implementation and Tax Statutes Amendment Act, 2024. 6. On Tuesday, May 28, 2024: (

a) during the first hour of Orders of the Day – Private Members' Business, the House shall consider Concurrence and Third Reading of Bills 207, 208 and 212, with the debate to proceed as follows: (

i) the Bill sponsor may speak for up to five minutes; (ii) a Member from another Recognized Party may speak for up to five minutes; (iii) the Independent Member may speak for up to five minutes; and (iv) the Speaker shall then put the question. (

b) if consideration of the Bills identified in (

a) is not completed by 10:55 a.m., the Speaker shall interrupt debate to put the Concurrence and Third Reading question on any remaining Bills. 7. On Wednesday, May 29, 2024: (

a) at the beginning of Orders of the Day – Government Business, the House shall consider the Report Stage Amendment to Bill 10 – The Advanced Education Administration Amendment Act, under the following debate provisions: (

i) the sponsor may speak for up to 10 minutes; (ii) a Member from the Official Opposition may speak for up to 10 minutes; (iii) the Independent Member may speak for up to 10 min- utes; and (iv) the Speaker shall then put the question. (

b) the House shall then resolve into Committee of Supply for the consideration of depart mental estimates. 8. On Thursday, May 30, 2024: (

a) during the first hour of Orders of the Day – Private Members' Business, the House shall consider Concurrence and Third Reading of Bills 201, 202 and 211, with the debate to proceed as follows: (

i) the Bill sponsor may speak for up to five minutes; (ii) a Member from another Recognized Party may speak for up to five minutes; (iii) the Independent Member may speak for up to five minutes, and (iv) the Speaker shall then put the question. (

b) if consideration of the Bills identified in (

a) is not completed by 10:55 a.m., the Speaker shall interrupt debate to put the Concurrence and Third Reading question on any remaining Bills; 9. On Monday, June 3, 2024: (

a) for the purposes of the conduct of House Business on this day, Bills 29, 30, 31, 33, 34 and 36 shall be considered as Specified Bills, and shall be subject to the provisions for the Concurrence and Third Reading Completion Day for Specified Bills referenced in sub-rule 2(14); (

b) at the beginning of Orders of the Day – Government Business, the House shall consider Concurrence and Third Reading of all Government Specified Bills, in an order to be announced by the Government House Leader, or in the order listed on the Order Paper; and (

c) in addition to the B ills identified in (

a) and (b), the House cannot rise until Royal Assent has also been granted to Bills 201, 202, 207, 208, 211 and 212. The Speaker: Just for everyone's information, I will be consulting with the clerks for the next few minutes just to plot the way forward here. * (14:40)

May 21, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1993 DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS– PUBLIC BILLS Bill 212–The Asian Heritage Month Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) The Speaker: Order, please. So, as announced, the House will resume debate on second reading, Bi ll 212, Asian Heritage Month Act (Com memoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) with debate to be interrupted and the question put.

So I will now put the question on Bill 212, the Asian heritage month, commemoration of days, weeks, months act amended–second reading of Bill 212, Asian Heritage Month Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended). Is–all those in favour –is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] House Business Hon.

Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): I would like to announce, in addition to the bill previously referred, that Bill 212, The Asian Heritage Month Act (Com memoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) will also be considered at the May 21, 2024, meeting of the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development.

The Speaker: It has been announced by the Govern- ment House Leader that, in addition to the bill pre - viously referred, that Bill 212, The Asian Heritage Month Act (Com memoration of Days, Weeks, and Months Act Amended) will also be considered at the May 21, 2024 meeting of the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development.

DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS Bill 30–The Unexplained Wealth Act (Criminal Property Forfeiture Act and Corporations Act Amended) The Speaker: The House will now consider second reading of Bill 31, The Captured Carbon Storage Act– [interjection] no–we will now resume debate on second reading on Bill 30, The Unexplained Wealth Act (Criminal Property Forfeiture Act and Cor por- ations Act Amended), with debate to be interrupted on the hoist motion and the question put on the hoist motion.

So the question before the House is the hoist motion for second reading of Bill 30, The Unexplained Wealth Act (Criminal Property Forfeiture Act and Cor por- ations Act Amended). Is it the will of the House to adopt the motion? An Honourable Member: No. The Speaker: I hear a no. It–the motion is accordingly defeated. So now we'll move on to the question on the debate on the main motion, so the unexplained–second reading debate on Bill 30, The Unexplained Wealth Act, criminal property forfeiture and cor porations act –as previously agreed, only the member for Tyndall Park (MLA Lamoureux) could speak.

So the question before the House is second reading of Bill 30, The Unexplained Wealth Act (Criminal Property Forfeiture Act and Corporations Act Amended). Is it the will of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] SECOND READINGS Bill 31–The Captured Carbon Storage Act The Speaker: Now, the government will now consider second reading of Bill 31, The Captured Carbon Storage Act. Hon. Jamie Moses (Minister of Economic Development, Investment, Trade and Natural Resources): I move, seconded by the Minister of Agri- culture (Mr.

Kostyshyn), that Bill 31, The Captured Carbon Storage Act, be now read a second time and referred to a committee of this House. Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor has been advised of the bill and I table the message. The Speaker: It's been moved by the honour able Minister of Economic Dev elopment, Invest ment, Trade and Natural Resources, seconded by the hon- ourable Minister of Agri culture, that Bill 31, The Captured Carbon Storage Act, be now read a second time and referred to a committee of this House. Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor has been advised and the message has been tabled. Mr.

Moses: I'm very pleased to have op portunity to debate and bring into second reading The Captured Carbon Storage Act. This is a really im portant piece of legislation because it establishes a framework, and a regulatory framework, to enable the safe storage of captured carbon dioxide in geological formations in Manitoba. So this means that it will allow some of the largest e-carbon 'diockshen' emitters in Manitoba an

1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 21, 2024 avenue, the opportunity, to capture carbon dioxide on site, in their facilities and store it safely underground in pore space in the proper geological formation in Manitoba. This piece of legislation is a framework–is a frame- work–because it allows companies to start this process, and the process continues on with a framework of Environment Act licence as well as a drilling licence for wells, and so there will be safety precautions laid out throughout the approval of those procedures. And this also meets the needs of industries, where industries are.

These industries, such as Koch Fertilizer, the Brady Road Landfill, Graymont, Kraft Paper, Simplot, Novus, are some of the largest polluters in Manitoba, and this framework gives them an oppor tunity to capture some of the carbon and store it safely underground. And so this procedure, this process, is used nationally in other juris dictions across the country, particularly in British Columbia and in Ontario.

And so in the crafting of this legislation, we've taken a look at some of what is done in other jurisdictions and tried to take the best of those procedures and implement it here in this bill here in Manitoba. As well, the federal gov ernment is looking at a opportunity to a draft of legislation, Bill C-59, which has tax credits coming into force that would retro- actively go to apply to the expenses, will start on January 1st of 2022. And so our bill that is proposed here, Bill 31, would allow us to come into–some of our busi nesses–to come into ef fect with the federal legislation.

So there's several parts in the act, and as in my opportunity to have a meeting on this bill with opposi- tion members, we discussed some of the

definitions around what pore space is, that is, you know, the sub- surface space there, and the bill describes also surface and subsurface rights and how that will work through- out the process. It also has the licensing arrangement where persons are able to reserve area, and, you know, geoscientists and the team can have a good look at the geological formations that are suitable for storing captured carbon and obtain their exploration reserva- tions. It also talks about the–using carbon repositories within the reserved area and allowing that geophysical exploration and survey work to be done. Another

section in this bill allows government to surface–subsurface rights in relation to the storage areas and the carbon storage licences as well as licences that are con ditional on the applicant having the necessary surface and subs urface rights, which means, in a nutshell that people who want to enter into these carbon capture regulations have to make sure that they're talking to the people whose land they want to use the pore space underneath and get their okay onto the processes as –before licences are being ap - proved to actually use that storage pore space under - ground, that subsurface space. * (14:50) As well, we know that, you know, we're going to be able to, through the licence process, ensure that this is done in a very safe manner, so that we can ensure safety for all Manitobans, as we're–we undertake this process.

As we've seen from other jurisdic tions who already have this regulatory framework in place, there has been safety ensured from their experiences, where this has been in process in Canada for a number of years and around the world for decades. And so we want to be able to use this as one tool in our tool kit to reduce our overall carbon dioxin emissions. And this is one avenue that we can take a concrete step, along with many other avenues that we can take in our efforts to decarbonize and move towards a net-zero economy; this is just one step that can get us along that path.

In addition to the way the regula tory framework is set out, there are directors–a director is going to be appointed to administer a certain

section of the 'anst'– act, to ensure that there is the proper compliance and enforcement measures–also to include ability to carry out inspections and issue orders on those folks who are entering into the act. Appeals and decisions on any of the decisions made by the director or through the process may be appealed to the appeal board, which will be created through this act. That gives proponents an opportunity to enter into discussion to settle disputes and actually go through the progress in all areas, and this bill encompasses all of that.

And so, as well as all of the changes that are very specific towards carbon capture and storage, the bill also makes sure that it makes changes to the cor res- ponding portions of the 'nasural' resource and property acts as well.

And so the bill is pretty comprehensive in terms of setting up a regulatory framework for carbon capture– captured-carbon storage, and we're, you know, excited for Manitoban busi nesses to have the op portunity to enter in this, as a way for us to lower and reduce our overall carbon footprint and have a mechanism for some of the largest emitters in Manitoba to participate in that effort, which our gov ernment, and which

May 21, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1995 Manitobans, take very seriously for reducing carbon emissions. So, Honourable Speaker, I'll leave my thoughts on the bill and how we move forward there, and say that this is a strong avenue for Manitobans to rest assured that our government takes climate change very seriously, takes our role in emissions reduction seriously and also takes out –approach that works within industry and meets their needs as well. And so it's a strong, balanced approach that our government is taking, and I think this bill aims to do just that.

So thank you very much, Honourable Speaker. Questions The Speaker: A question period of up to 15 minutes will be held. Questions may be addressed to the minister by any opposition or independent member in the following sequence: firs t question by the official opposition critic or designate; subsequent questions asked by critics or designates from other recognized opposition parties; subsequent questions asked by each independent member; remaining questions asked by any opposition member. And no question or answer shall exceed 45 seconds. The floor is now open for questions. Mrs.

Lauren Stone (Midland): This bill has been in the works for about two and a half years, and the previous PC gov ernment did sig nificant work on the regulatory and legis lative framework, including 'convenying'–convening a group of industry stake - holders in July of 2023; there was a press release that was sent out at around July 19 of 2023. So I would like to ask the minister, has this group of stakeholders been reconvened for consultation as it relates to this bill? Hon.

Jamie Moses (Minister of Economic Development, Investment, Trade and Natural Resources): Honourable Speaker, thank you very much to the question from the member opposite. And I understand that she was in attendance that meeting, you know, on behalf of one of the, you know, largest polluters in our province. I believe it was Koch Fertilizer, I understand, you were representing at the time.

And so I thank, you know, her for her partici - pation in that event to help us inform the bill that we're bringing forward today and that allows us to actually, you know, move Manitoba forward in a good path to reduce our emissions and do so in a construction way– constructive way with industry. The Speaker: Just a reminder to the minister to make sure he directs his comments through the Chair and not directly to members opposite. Mr. Doyle Piwniuk (Turtle Mountain): Can the minister tell us who he consulted with on this bill? Mr. Moses: I appreciate the question.

Obviously, consultation is very im portant as the previous member alluded to. There was a consultation session, which included folks from New Flyer in- dustry, Canadian Kraft Paper, North Forge, Carbon Block, Keystone agri culture producers, Carbon Block, Koch Fertilizer, City of Winnipeg, Tundra Oil & Gas, just to name some of the few folks who are been consulted. I've reached out to some of those people, those organizations personally to talk about this bill and they have shown support for this initiative. Mrs.

Stone: The two legis lative frameworks that Manitoba was initially looking at as it related to carbon capture utilization and storage, was models that Saskatchewan and Alberta have in place. Both protected the rights of landowners as it relates to pore spaces. So why is Manitoba not compensating private landowners for their rightful ownership of pore spaces. Mr. Moses: We decided, I think, it's the best approach to actually put the onus on the industrial proponent for the land surface and subsurface rights holders.

And so I think that's an approach that's going to ensure that those folks actually work together to come towards an agreement in terms of both surface and subsurface rights, as well as any monetary exchanges that go along with access to those rights on that land. Mrs. Stone: Yes, so Hon ourable Speaker, in the Alberta model, the Crown owns pore space rights. However, they do compensate private landowners. So why has the Manitoba legis lation failed to 'comperensate' private landowners for pore space owner- ship as referenced in

part 2,

section 6(1) of this bill. Alberta's model and legislative framework has been in place for a long time. It is understood and known to be one of the best models that we have in the country. So why is the Manitoba gov ernment not follow- ing the Alberta model as it relates to compensation? Mr. Moses: We believe some of that compensation should be led by industry and that should be part of their responsibility for entering into this process.

1996 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 21, 2024 Additionally, I think that as good as the Alberta model is, I think we can always do a little better and that's exactly what we're aiming to do. Mr. Piwniuk: Can the minister tell us which industrial emitters will benefit from this bill? Mr. Moses: I thank the member opposite for that question. There are, you know, some of the largest, you know, emitters in Manitoba will be the ones who will chiefly be benefitting from that, such as Koch Fertilizer, Simplot, Cenovus, you know, obviously, the City of Winnipeg itself; it's a large emitter.

And so those were the type of organi zations and industries that will be able to take advantage of this piece of legislation. Mr. Jeff Wharton (Red River North): First off, I'd like to thank the minister for providing a bill briefing on Bill 31. And, again, I was very familiar because our–the former PC government started this bill. And the only area that I have a concern on, and I'm building on my colleague's concern about pore space and compensation. In the bill, it doesn't clearly state, so I'll give an example: Will Koch actually pay the property owner for the use of pore space? Mr.

Moses: The idea is that the industry or the company would, you know, maybe compensate the landholder for their surface or subsurface rights. Pore space, that area would be retained ownership by the Province of Manitoba. * (15:00) Mrs. Stone: As I mentioned–my previous question, the Alberta and Saskatchewan models have been in place for a long time, and there's a significant amount of expertise with how those models have worked over the past number of years.

Has the minister talked to Alber [phonetic], Saskatchewan or any of the industries and businesses there that have had ex perience with CCUS and the legislative framework to ensure that Manitoba does it properly and correctly? Mr. Moses: Yes, our team did it, along with doing a– jurisdictional scan work, we did reach out to some of our counterparts in other provinces and heard feedback from them on t heir experiences with carbon capture and storage, and one of the reasons why we took the best from several different provinces with the crafting of this piece of legislation. Mr.

Wharton: Again, building on the pore space, and thank you for that answer a bout 'subsur'–or, surface rights to the landowner being compensated by the company. And again, Crown would own the pore space. Has the minister consulted with First Nations land claims, and have they taken that into account? Mr. Moses: Yes, to–Honourable Speaker, to answer the member's question, yes we have taken that into account, and that's why the process of this bill wouldn't legislate any, you know, surface or subsurface rights to change immediately.

This allows proponents to actively engage in those conversations with community members, with land and rights holders, to ensure that not only are they en- gaging in the right way, but also that they have some sort of compensation model with those subsurface or surface rights holders. And so that's part of the process that we'll engage, and I think that, you know, I think Manitobans will be encouraged to see that our gov ernment is very–has a very thoughtful approach when it comes to land sur - face and subsurface rights. Mr.

Piwniuk: Can the mini ster share with –whether the federal gov ernment has been consulted and whether it has been signed off on this bill. Mr. Moses: So, yes, we have reached out to counterparts in the federal government as relation to our bill and let them know about our bil l, Bill 31, in relation to the federal bill, Bill C-59, and how they can interact.

We know that on–in Bill C-59 there are particular provinces individually listed and named in that bill, and so with our bill being, you know, being–receiving royal assent and being passed, it's our aim to get onto that list, of part of Bill C-59, so that we can be recog- nized by the federal government. But that–those conversations have already begun. Mrs. Stone: Just further to the answer the minister just gave, so as we know the federal government needs to accept the regula tory and legis lative framework for CCUS in order for industries to apply for the tax credit.

So can the minister provide any timelines for when the federal gov ernment will accept this 'legislory'–legislative and regulatory framework so that industries and companies can start the feasibility studies to see if CCUS will even work in the geo - logical pore spaces for Manitoba?

May 21, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1997 Mr. Moses: Well, what I can say to that is that that time frame the member opposite speaks about would have been a lot sooner if they hadn't spent so many days and weeks and weeks delaying this House from getting to this bill. Their blockade and debating and so many amendments to previous bills delayed us getting to Bill 31, which delays the same –the very question that the member opposite's asked. And so we're excited about bringing this forward and moving this forward as quickly as we can. The Speaker: No further questions?

Debate The Speaker: The floor is open for debate. Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): I am very pleased to rise in the House today and put a few words on the record as relates to Bill 31, the carbon storage act. CCUS, or carbon capture, utilization and storage, is an industrial oppor tunity with significant potential and scale, and I just want to take a moment to thank the member from Red River North and the former minister of Environment , Kevin Klein, for working extensively over the past two and a half years to make this legislation and regulatory framework a reality.

CCUS is an essential technology that enables in- dustrial emitters to not only manage their own carbon emissions through promising technology, but also is a massive export opportunity for this country. Manitoba does have a unique geological land- scape for the store of carbon in its pore spaces. And this bill should encourage private investment to come to Manitoba. We are looking at significantly large stakeholders –important stake holders–here in Manitoba that provide jobs, that contribute significantly to the economic well -being of our province and con- tribute significantly to the province's GDP.

These are significant contributors to our economy. They encour- age jobs and job growth, and it is so im portant that industry takes the lead as it relates to carbon capture utilization and storage. I want to encourage the minister and the member opposite to use his words carefully when calling our critical industries here in Manitoba polluters. I think the minister needs to educate himself on the im port- ance of these industries. Our industrial operations here in Manitoba are not dirty polluters.

They are economic-advancing, job-producing, community-supporting businesses and industries in our province that our critical to our province's economy. To suggest in any way that they are not already operating as environmentally friendly as possible and to suggest that they are not already investing in the most technology advancing and available technology and environmentally friendly tech nology as possible is both insulting as well as ignorant for how busi ness actually operates. It is absolutely clear that industry–private industry– needs to take the lead and the charge on these projects and their viabilities.

The former PC gov ernment has been working diligently on this legis lation for a number of years, and our PC government understood the importance of opportunities like this and to ensure that they do not put those projects at jeopardy as a result of their own political ideology. And calling these industries dirty polluters is totally and completely insulting to those industries that bring a significant amount of jobs and economic development and growth to this province. Given its scale and potential, carbon capture and storage will give us a foothold in the hydrogen-based economy.

However, and I want to make this very, very clear to the members opposite and caution the members opposite in these Chambers that this techno- logy is not foolproof. It is not proven, but it does show promise. This technology also comes at a very sig nificant cost with over $100 million in the tech nology alone, not including feasibility studies, geological land- scapes, consulting fees, testing plots. This is a very, very significant financial investment for industries and com- panies to take. Unfortunately, this is one of the 'mainor' –major downfalls of CCUS.

It is prohibitively expensive for many industrial facilities without a hundred per cent guarantee that it will actually work in the long term. There needs to be a return of invest ment for the research and the development of CCUS and the infra- structure of this tech nology, and industry needs a guarantee from this NDP gov ernment that they will not target their industries if this tech nology is not compatible with their industrial facility or if the feasibility studies do not produce a return on invest - ment in their results.

Legislating CCUS and having this regulatory frame- work, however, does allow industry to explore its potential and determine the value of the investment.

1998 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 21, 2024 Manitoba is a very clean province. Our industries here are critical to Manitoba's economy. CO2 is primarily used in the fertilizer industry and for enhanced oil recovery. Specific ally speaking to Manitoba, the fertilizer that is manufactured here in east Brandon supplies a third of Manitoba's local farmers. Manitoba's–know their industries best. They know their busi ness best.

They are the ones that are in - vesting significant dollars into these feasibility studies and preparing their capex dollars for this incred ibly expensive technology. * (15:10) I would like to point out where this legis lation does fail and where the federal government has failed in its approach to the CCUS tax credit structure, and that's the utilization component. CO 2 can be utilized to develop renewable fuels such as converted into hydrogen and used as a value- added product for energy. This opens up a significant market for Manitoba, the hydrogen market, as I spoke about earlier in my comments.

Continuing to advance the utilization component can help Manitoba capitalize on emerging markets and value-added opportunities. This work, and I'd like em phasize, this work has already been done by the previous PC gov ernment. They worked extensively over two and a half years to ensure that the right players were around the table to move this forward. The previous PC gov ernment wanted to ensure that investment dollars stayed in this province. They did not go out and call some of our largest industries, employing hundreds and hundreds of people in this province, dirty polluters.

And the minister and the member opposite need to be very careful about the words that he uses when describing these industries that are so critical and im portant to Manitoba. The hydrogen strategy that was released by the former PC gov ernment is just part of the broader CCUS strategy, and this is why it was such an impor- tant step when the previous PC gov ernment initiated the stakeholder round table on July 19 of 2023 to not only talk about the oppor tunities for storage but also the opportunities for utilization downstream. Industry has repeatedly said, technology over taxation.

Carbon capture, storage and utilization is a far better method than a carbon tax ever could be. You know, so I know I'm running low on time here, Honourable Speaker. I could talk about carbon capture, utilization and storage all day. As the minister noted, I do have extensive knowledge and experience on this legis lation. I would encourage the minister, look at other models and other jurisdictions across the country. As I've already mentioned, Alber [phonetic] and Saskatchewan, are the gold star for CCUS legis- lation. Saskatchewan is known across the world for their investments in carbon capture and storage.

And so it's so critical that Manitoba looks at the success of those models and looks at the success that that industry has had. But I do want to e mphasize again, Hon ourable Speaker, this technology is expensive, it is not proven, and industries cannot and should not be targeted by this NDP gov ernment if the tech nology does not produce a return on investment or it does not have the results that we are all hoping for. Now, again, Honourable Speaker, this technology does show promise, and what this legis lation and 'regulatormore'–regulatory model allows, it is allows industry to start exploring.

And I think it's so im por- tant to em phasize that, that this is the begin ning. Feasibility studies need to be done, under standing of our geological landscape needs to be done and pore spaces need to be understood.

Manitoba does have a unique geological land- scape and has significant potential for this technology to work, but I do want to ensure that the members opposite are aware that this is new technology, and it is expensive, and industry absolutely needs to take the lead on the development, the feasibility and the overall implementation of the CCUS techno logy without the NDP government standing in their way. So, with that being said, Hon ourable Speaker, thank you for letting me put a few words on the record as it relates to carbon capture and storage, and I look forward to this bill moving through to committee.

Thank you very much. The Speaker: As previously agreed, the question before the House is second reading of Bill 31, the caption–Captured Carbon Storage Act. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] I declare the motion carried. Bill 29–The Body Armour and Fortified Vehicle Control Amendment Act The Speaker: Now, as previously announced, we will consider the second reading of Bill 29, The Body Armour and Fortified Vehicle Control Amendment Act.

May 21, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1999 Hon. Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister for Agri- culture, that Bill 29, The Body Armour and Fortified Vehicle Control Amendment Act, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Motion presented. Mr. Wiebe: I'm pleased to rise in the House today for second reading of Bill 29, The Body Armour and Fortified Vehicle Control Amendment Act. The proposed amendments to The Body Armour and Fortified Vehicle Control Act will prohibit after- market hidden compartments in vehicles.

It provides limited exceptions for hidden compartments designed by the manufacturer for aftermarket installation, as well as hidden compartments that are sold to the public by retail outlets. Privately owned vehicles, including cars, trucks, semis and boats, are the primary means for drug traffickers and other organi zed criminals to move money, drugs and firearms across the country. In many cases, these vehicles are outfitted with so phisticated concealed compartments involving hydraulics installed after the vehicle has been purchased or financed.

The Body Armour and Fortified Vehicle Control Amendment Act will allow police and inspectors to seize and forfeit these vehicles on t he sole grounds that they have an aftermarket hidden compartment. Once in force, this bill will get these vehicles off our streets for good, deterring and preventing drug traf - fickers and other criminal activity. Honourable Speaker, these proposed amendments also remove the require ment for Manitoba Justice to destroy fortified vehicles and vehicles with an after - market hidden compartment that have been forfeited to the province.

This will allow the police and inspectors with our Public Safety Investigations unit to use these vehicles for training purposes and to help law enforce ment detect drugs, firearms and other illegal contraband more effectively. The amendments in Bill 29 also address a signifi- cant gap in the current legis lation. Currently, under The Criminal Property Forfeiture Act, vehicles with aftermarket hidden compartments are presumed to be instruments of unlawful activity for the purposes of forfeiture proceedings initiated by the director of Criminal Property Forfeiture branch.

However, police currently do not have grounds to seize these vehicles unless there is evidence–or, sorry– there is other evidence of unlawful activity associated with the vehicle, such as drugs or cash found in the vehicle. These amendments address a loophole in the legislation by allowing police and inspectors to seize vehicles on the sole grounds of having an aftermarket hidden compartment. Over the past seven years, we have seen crime rates exponentially rise under the previous government.

Our government is tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime, and this legis lation will allow Manitoba Justice to get tougher on drug traffickers who have been profiting from the distribution of toxic drugs that continue to hurt our communities. Honourable Speaker, I urge all members of this House to show support for a safer Manitoba by sup- porting Bill 29 today. Thank you very much. Questions The Speaker: A question period of up to 15 minutes will be held.

Questions may be addressed to the minister by any opposition or independent member in the following sequence: first question by the official opposition critic or designate; subsequent questions asked by critics or designates from other recognized opposition parties; subsequent questions asked by each independent member; remaining questions to be asked by any opposition member, and no question or answer shall exceed 45 seconds. The floor is open for questions. Mr.

Wayne Balcaen (Brandon West): One of the most important questions that comes up from the public as well as from our caucus revolves around how the justice system and the de partment will ensure that inspectors and officials enforcing this act are not misinterpreting the act and using it as an overzealous nature on innocent members of the general public. I wonder if the minister could speak to that point. Hon. Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Well, yes.

Maybe I'll just start, Honourable Speaker, by saying how frustrating it is that w eeks upon weeks of delay to get Bill 30 passed, of course, that was holding up Bill 29. * (15:20) And also quite surprising that the member oppo- site, who comes from a law enforcement background, should know very well that our law enforce ment officers who are in the field understand when we pass legislation like this, it's to be used in a very judicious

2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 21, 2024 way. And, of course, they are constrained under the con- straints in the bill. We trust our law enforcement to execute those laws. Mr. Rick Wowchuk (Swan River): I thank the minister for bringing this forth. Will this legislation apply at our borders, and will border services officers enforcing, or be able to en- force, this provisional offence in laws when they are inspecting vehicles? Mr. Wi ebe: Yes, good question from the member opposite and, again, some thing I think we covered fairly extensively in the bill briefing.

It is important to note that while border officials operate at the federal level in terms of their juris diction, they do operate within the jurisdictions in which the boarding–border crossing is. So it's a good question because we see, in- creasingly, human trafficking and other kind of drug trafficking activity at our borders. We want to ensure that we have the right law s here in Manitoba. This is the–exactly the kind of law that law enforcement was asking for so that they can better do their jobs to catch some of those folks bringing in the toxic drugs, weapons and people into Manitoba.

The Speaker: No further questions? Mr. Konrad Narth (La Vérendrye): My question is for the minister. What will the ramifications be for the driver and the owner of the offending vehicle, and what will those penalties be? Mr. Wiebe: So what this bill speaks to is the ability to proceed with the civil court forfeiture component. So, like other proceeds of crime, this would follow those same–that same procedure. What this really speaks to is, is that the com- partment itself, the modifications them selves within the vehicle, are the triggering factor.

So these are not simple modifications; these are oftentimes very so - phisticated, used by organized crime and others. And so that's what really initiates the civil property forfeiture aspect. And again, our officials do a great job of i nterpreting the act and going after organized crime in a serious way. The Speaker: No further–the honourable member for Brandon West (Mr. Balcaen). Mr. Balcaen: I'm just wondering, again, the minister put some words on the record on this, but can he explain it a little bit more about this legislation and the rationale for it, as it compares to criminal law that we have right now?

Mr. Wiebe: So again, really, two pieces to this legis- lation, one being–the first being that these modifica - tions are specifically designed to evade law en force- ment. And so previously, again, you know, this is fairly common that police would seize a vehicle like this, with these modifications. However, if there were no –if there was no other evidence that was seized at t he time, then that would've been a stand-alone case. What we're talking about here is the actual deception that's implicit with the installation of these aftermarket compartments being the triggering factor.

The other part that we should note, Honour able Speaker, is that these vehicles can now be used for training. So they can be seized–of course, they couldn't be re-sold; these are extensive modifications– but they can be used for training, and that's something that law en forcement has been asking for, and our Criminal Property Forfeiture folks are happy to work with them with that. Mr. Wowchuk: Can the minister explain how this provincial legislation differs from the Criminal Code prohibitions on vehicles? Mr. Wiebe: Yes.

Again, this is with rega rds to the civil property forfeiture aspect, which, you know–and I know we had lots of time to debate Bill 30, so the member opposite should know very well by now. Although, you know, sometimes I wonder, when I heard the quality of debate that was coming f rom the other side. But I digress, Honourable Speaker. I think members opposite would understand the civil property for - feiture is a tool used by law en forcement to go after organized crime and criminals who are profiting from crime.

This gives them just one more tool, and spe - cifically when it comes to modified vehicles, this is one aspect that law en forcement's been asking for. We're willing to work with them. Mr. Narth: My question is, again, for the minister. Do we not already have provisions like these in legislation at the federal level or at the prov incial level? Mr. Wiebe: Well, again, what this legislation speaks to is the fact that these hidden compartments –and again, I–we have to stress very strongly here, Honour- able Speaker, that these compartments are not, you know, a simple safe or, you know, a simple, you

May 21, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2001 know–sometimes people use compartments within their vehicle to hide personal items. We are not talking about that in this case. We are talking about very sophis ticated sy stems, and those systems are exclusively used to evade law en force- ment. And so, again, the implication here is that because they are evading law enforcement, that that is the–that triggers the ability to go after these items and use that in a civil property forfeiture manner. So, you know, honestly, Honourable Speaker, we know, clearly, organized crime is– The Speaker: Time is expired. Mr.

Balcaen: Lots of legislation can cause what's called a reverse onus. So I'm just wondering, does this legislation create a reverse onus and put the responsibility on the owner or the driver of the vehicle to prove their innocence rather than the Province to prove their guilt? Mr. Wiebe: Yes, I think that's one way of looking at it, Honourable Speaker, and I think what–maybe what the member's alluding to is the fact that, you know, when we're talking about organized crime, we're talking about criminals who are using these vehicles for drug trafficking, for illegal weapons and in some cases, human trafficking.

What we're seeing is that, you know, the–once the pressure's on, once the questions are being asked, they're not coming in and saying, you know, this is how I obtained this; this is what this is. In most case, those organized crimes, they know they're doing a criminal activity and so we really don't see them coming to the Province often to contest any of these seizures. Mr. Derek Johnson (Interlake-Gimli): Yes, thanks to the minister for bringing this forward. There's compartments that are in vehicles like space within a spare tire, for example.

Although it's not modified, can a criminal –well, can somebody be charged under this legis lation even though it's not a modified space but it's a space that is being used obviously for its–not its intended purposes? Mr. Wiebe: Yes, so the provisions within this legislation do carve out anything that's commercially available. And, again, when we're talking about the modi - fications spoken about in this bill, we are not talking about simple compartments or, you know, additions necessarily to a vehicle.

We're talking about serious modifications, in many cases, that completely alter the vehicle's integrity, its frame, its–sort of every thing about the vehicle. And so, outwardly, it looks the same, but on the inside there's hidden compartments. Again, also the other elements, Honourable Speaker, that's interesting: it's not, you know, high-end vehicles. Oftentimes, these are simple, everyday vehicles because they want to evade attraction from law enforcement. So we–this legislation would capture those. Mr.

Wowchuk: The–Andrew Swan promised the people of Dauphin a new jail and he never got it after 17 years in gov ernment. And I know the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Kostyshyn) came out of retirement here and , hopefully, you won't have to maybe wait another 17 years because they're maybe on borrowed time here. So how many more years will it take this new NDP minister to break that promise to the people of Dauphin, that he reaches the end of this term with no new Dauphin jails, it'll take me two decades of NDP governments and ministers breaking their promises to the people of Dauphin.

Could the–the minister is cutting the funding for corrections so how does that support a new jail? Mr. Wiebe: Well, I've heard some folks mention that the opposition is undertaking various forms of poppy- cock to delay bills. That's the word on the street. But this reaches a whole new level, because this member sat at the caucus table in gov ernment as the member from Swan River, you know, with the mem- ber from Dauphin and I guess never advocated once– not once–to get any kind of facility built.

And Brandon, in fact, closed down the jail and walked away from the people of Dauphin and I think we saw the results in the last election. * (15:30) I look forward to the next election when we come after Swan River, as well. Mr. Narth: Honourable Speaker, as we see a number of bills from the Justice De partment being brought forward that seemingly have very little value, can the minister tell us why he is cutting funding to the courts if the De partment of Justice is im portant to this province?

2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 21, 2024 Mr. Wiebe: Again, I would suggest maybe that relevance might be an issue here in terms of the bill and the content of the bill. It's also frustrating, Honourable Speaker, because we–day after day, wasted time in this place, and members opposite wouldn't pass important legislation that goes after organized crime. So, you know, the member opposite has a script that was handed to him maybe by Shannon Martin or some other staffer behind the scenes.

What I will say is, is that this is real action that will actually impact organized crime and support law enforcement, which is what our party has done every single day we've been government. The Speaker: Just caution all members that questions should be relevant to the bill we're discussing. No further questions? Mr. Narth: My question, again, is for the Minister of Justice (Mr.

Wiebe): With there being vehicles that in- tentionally are built with compartments that are sup - posed to be concealed and hidden, similarly an option on the Ford Lightning truck you an buy a protected box that is hidden under the centre console as an option from Ford Motor Company. Is that some thing that if it was bought from the factory and used for illegal purposes, would fall under this same legislation? Mr. Wiebe: Well, I've suggested to members oppo- site to listen a little more carefully. It was addressed in the –in my opening comments, as well as other questions from members opposite. No.

If it is commercially available, and certainly, if you're talking about options on a vehicle from the factory, of course, those wouldn't be captured under this bill. These are modifications that are done afterwards. I'd invite him to out and talk to law enforcement, to have a con versation about how im portant this bill is, and maybe he would understand the issue a little bit better before he comes in, asks questions like that. Mr. Johnson: So with that answer, then––so a spare tire, somebody hid something illegal inside the spare tire, then they wouldn't or couldn't be charged under this, then, just to be clear.

It's only after-market modified compartments, even though that's kind of technically modifying the purpose for the tire, it still would not be applicable to this. Mr. Wiebe: That is correct. Mr. Narth: So for further clarification to the question that I asked and my colleague from Gimli, then if a criminal orders a vehicle that that compart ment is an option, they are able to use it for illegal activities and it doesn't fall within this legislation, so they would be exempt from the additional ramifications. Mr.

Wiebe: Yes, again, this bill was developed by some of the best experts in Cana da, including many who work right here in Manitoba, work in our Depart- ment of Justice, and I just wanted to say kudos to them. They did their work with this bill, with Bill 30 as well, and they consulted across the country. What this is doing is bringing us to the forefront, once again. It's taking real action against organized crime, and ultimately this is what we ran on in the election, and this is what Manitobans elected us to do.

We're getting tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime and we're going to start seeing, you know, more and more benefits as we work with law en forcement to improve public safety across the province. The Speaker: The time for questions has expired. Debate The Speaker: The floor is now open for debate. Mr. Wayne Balcaen (Brandon West): And it gives me great pleasure always to rise on bills that intersect with law en forcement and with justice, and I appre - ciate this opportunity to put a few words on the record today.

Listen to some of the answers from the minist er; I'm not surprised that he mentions the quality of debate that comes with the previous Bill 30 that also has some legis lation built into it regarding hidden compartments. But, you know, the quality of the legis lation that is brought forward is proba bly a direct result of the debate that is put forth on it.

So if the quality legis - lation would've been there, clearly laid out, there wouldn't have been such heavy discussion on this very important bill, not only on the bill itself, but also on the reas oned amendment as well as on the hoist amendment that we're not going to debate now. But I just wanted to make sure that we're clear on that. This bill is very im portant for law en forcement. Law enforcement will certainly benefit from this, as will the Criminal Property Forfeiture Unit, because a lot of the drugs or proceeds of crime are often brought from province to province or from place to place in a

May 21, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2003 hidden compartment, Honourable Speaker, and I know that some of this legis lation was probab ly brought forward by the de partment that I used to be chief of, and I'd like to talk a little bit about that specific incident. So going back to June 16th of 2021, members of our–sorry, members of the Brandon Police Service at that time conducted a traffic stop on what was a Chio [phonetic] Sorento with an Ontario licence plate, and it gave indicators to the investigating officer that he thought something was wrong, just based on some of his training.

He ran the plate and it came up to a numbered company in Ontario, so again, that was a little bit more suspicion that brought forward to the officer, and the officer stopped the vehicle, spoke with the driver for a little bit, and he started getting a little bit more nuance to this issue.

And there was lots of indicators: nervousness; confused story, it changed several times; indicated that he was coming from Edmonton and heading to Toronto; and he talked about some of the different areas that we know in law en forcement are common drug trafficking routes or common commodity routes east to west, west to east with drugs flowing one way, cash flowing the other. So with all of this, the member looked a little bit further and he found some unstamped tobacco in the vehicle.

And so, based on that unstamped tobacco, he had the grounds for arrest, and with the grounds for arrest becomes the grounds for search and seizure, and he put this all into the legal articulation, Hon ourable Speaker. And eventually a search of the vehicle resulted in that member locating a hidden compartment in the rear hatch of the vehicle. And the important thing about this hidden compartment is that it was extremely sophisti- cated. The only reason the member found it is he saw some wires there and he wondered what this was for.

He eventually had to bring a power source and hook these wires up to it, which activated the hidden compartment, and inside of that hidden compartment was $2.2 million. And with that, that $2.2 million was seized as property–sorry, of proceeds of crime. And that money, of course, was seized by the police service, and there's quite the story of it, because the bank didn't even want to take possession of that much money within our local jurisdiction, but we did secure it in the bank, and then we were able to provide escorts for the security company to do what they needed to do to bring the money in.

Interestingly enough, as I was head of the police service, we'd seized this, and it's probably the biggest e-transfer that Criminal Property Forfeiture Manitoba has received from a police service, and I was happy to send the $2.21- million e-transfer to the Province to help with the proceeds of crime and the money that went into this. * (15:40) So that ended up with some significant conversa- tion at differe nt policing levels, including the Manitoba Association of Chiefs of Police, and we talked about the need for legis lation that would look at this specific type of issue. The other

part is that a lot of these vehicles are modified to put in these hidden compartments or aftermarket compartments, which causes some integrity issues to the vehicle's frame or to the different areas.

So, you know, this will allow for the proper seizure of these vehicles, and then they can be repurposed once this is taken out, t he illegal aspects of the vehicle are taken out and the vehicle can then be either sold as a proceed of crime or used as –what often happens with Criminal Property Forfeiture Unit is they sometimes give these vehicles as part of a program to areas like Crim e Stoppers or other areas that they can use these vehicles for a noble purpose rather than under the auspices of crime. So also located inside of this vehicle was a GPS tracking system, a sophisticated GPS tracking system.

So I say this, Honour able S peaker, because this is truly a com mercial enterprise where obviously high risk and high reward at the end, but this simply shows that crime doesn't pay. As a matter of fact, it takes the money out and puts it into an organi zation, such as Criminal Property Forfeiture, which then funds victims of crime, it funds property, it funds programs for safety and law enforcement. And I'm sure the Minister of Justice (Mr.

Wiebe) will have the opportunity this year, if he hasn't already, to read over the abundance of applications that come from law enforcement for these funds from Criminal Property Forfeiture. And having this sort of legislation and allowing us to have it codified and be able to broaden our search and seizure responsi bilit

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	43-1-59b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	43rd 1st hansardpdf 59b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	ded0d421d8d7f5d86ef2f38843919ca43226e4bb

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