British Columbia Hansard — 15 June 2021, a.m., Issue 94 (42nd Parliament, 2nd Session)

20210615am-Hansard-n94

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session, 42nd Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Tuesday, June 15, 2021 Morning Sitting Issue No. 94 THE HONOURABLE RAJ CHOUHAN, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC Second Session, 42nd Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Raj Chouhan EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................... Hon. John Horgan Minister of Advanced Education and Skills Training...........................................................................................................Hon.

Anne Kang Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries......................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Housing .............................................................................................Hon. David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ....................................................................................................................Hon.

Mitzi Dean Minister of State for Child Care...................................................................................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services.....................................................................................................................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Education .................................................................................................................................................. Hon.

Jennifer Whiteside Minister of Energy, Mines and Low Carbon Innovation ........................................................................................Hon. Bruce Ralston, QC Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy............................................................................................. Hon. George Heyman Minister of Finance .......................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Selina Robinson Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Lands and Natural Resource Operations................................................................................. Hon. Nathan Cullen Minister of Health and Minister Responsible for Francophone Affairs.............................................................................Hon.

Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation .......................................................................................... Hon. Murray Rankin, QC Minister of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation....................................................................................................... Hon. Ravi Kahlon Minister of State for Trade...............................................................................................................................................Hon.

George Chow Minister of Labour ...................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions.............................................................................................................. Hon. Sheila Malcolmson Minister of Municipal Affairs ............................................................................................................................................. Hon.

Josie Osborne Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ........................................................................................................... Hon. Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction........................................................................................... Hon. Nicholas Simons Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport .................................................................................................................. Hon.

Melanie Mark Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure................................................................................................................... Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of State for Infrastructure ................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Bowinn Ma LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition...................................................................................................................................................Shirley Bond Leader of the Third Party .......................................................................................................................................................... Sonia Furstenau Deputy Speaker..........................................................................................................................................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Assistant Deputy Speaker..............................................................................................................................................................Norm Letnick Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole .......................................................................................................................... Ronna-Rae Leonard Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...........................................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel.............................................................................................................................. Seunghee Suzie Seo Clerk Assistant, Parliamentary Services........................................................................................................................... Artour Sogomonian Clerk of Committees.......................................................................................................................................................................

Jennifer Arril Clerk Assistant, Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ..............................................................................................Susan Sourial Senior Research Analyst ................................................................................................................................................................... Karan Riarh Acting Sergeant-at-Arms..................................................................................................................................................................Greg Nelson

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Alexis, Pam (BC NDP) ............................................................Abbotsford-Mission Anderson, Brittny (BC NDP) .........................................................Nelson-Creston Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal Party) ............................................................... Penticton Babchuk, Michele (BC NDP)...............................................................North Island Bailey, Brenda (BC NDP).................................................. Vancouver–False Creek Bains, Hon. Harry (BC NDP).........................................................

Surrey-Newton Banman, Bruce (BC Liberal Party) ............................................ Abbotsford South Beare, Hon. Lisa (BC NDP) .......................................

Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry (BC NDP).................................................................Surrey-Guildford Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ...............................................Peace River South Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal Party).................................Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (BC NDP) ................................................................Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal Party) .............................................

Surrey South Chandra Herbert, Spencer (BC NDP).................................Vancouver–West End Chant, Susie (BC NDP) ..............................................North Vancouver–Seymour Chen, Hon. Katrina (BC NDP) ............................................... Burnaby-Lougheed Chouhan, Hon. Raj (BC NDP).................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Chow, Hon. George (BC NDP) ..........................................Vancouver-Fraserview Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal Party)........................Columbia River–Revelstoke Conroy, Hon.

Katrine (BC NDP) ....................................................Kootenay West Coulter, Dan (BC NDP) .......................................................................... Chilliwack Cullen, Hon. Nathan (BC NDP) ................................................................... Stikine Davies, Dan (BC Liberal Party)................................................. Peace River North de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal Party)....................................Abbotsford West Dean, Hon. Mitzi (BC NDP) ...............................................

Esquimalt-Metchosin D’Eith, Bob (BC NDP) .........................................................Maple Ridge–Mission Dix, Hon. Adrian (BC NDP) ................................................ Vancouver-Kingsway Doerkson, Lorne (BC Liberal Party) ........................................Cariboo-Chilcotin Donnelly, Fin (BC NDP) .......................................... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Dykeman, Megan (BC NDP)............................................................... Langley East Eby, Hon. David, QC (BC NDP).......................................

Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (BC NDP) ..................................................Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike (BC NDP) .................................................Port Coquitlam Fleming, Hon. Rob (BC NDP) ...............................................

Victoria–Swan Lake Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) .............................................Cowichan Valley Glumac, Rick (BC NDP) ..................................................Port Moody–Coquitlam Greene, Kelly (BC NDP) ........................................................Richmond-Steveston Halford, Trevor (BC Liberal Party) .........................................Surrey–White Rock Heyman, Hon. George (BC NDP) .........................................Vancouver-Fairview Horgan, Hon. John (BC NDP) ......................................... Langford–Juan de Fuca Kahlon, Hon.

Ravi (BC NDP) .............................................................. Delta North Kang, Hon. Anne (BC NDP) .................................................. Burnaby–Deer Lake Kirkpatrick, Karin (BC Liberal Party) ........................West Vancouver–Capilano Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal Party)....................................................................Shuswap Lee, Michael (BC Liberal Party) ..............................................Vancouver-Langara Leonard, Ronna-Rae (BC NDP)...............................................

Courtenay-Comox Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal Party) .................................. Kelowna–Lake Country Lore, Grace (BC NDP)........................................................... Victoria–Beacon Hill Ma, Hon. Bowinn (BC NDP).....................................North Vancouver–Lonsdale Malcolmson, Hon. Sheila (BC NDP)........................................................Nanaimo Mark, Hon. Melanie (BC NDP).................................Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Mercier, Andrew (BC NDP) ........................................................................

Langley Merrifield, Renee (BC Liberal Party)......................................... Kelowna-Mission Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal Party) .......................... Kamloops–North Thompson Morris, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ................................. Prince George–Mackenzie Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal Party).................................................. Cariboo North Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)............................ Saanich North and the Islands Osborne, Hon.

Josie (BC NDP)........................................Mid Island–Pacific Rim Paddon, Kelli (BC NDP) ................................................................Chilliwack-Kent Paton, Ian (BC Liberal Party) ............................................................... Delta South Popham, Hon. Lana (BC NDP)........................................................ Saanich South Ralston, Hon. Bruce, QC (BC NDP) .............................................Surrey-Whalley Rankin, Hon.

Murray, QC (BC NDP) .............................Oak Bay–Gordon Head Rice, Jennifer (BC NDP) ...................................................................... North Coast Robinson, Hon. Selina (BC NDP)...................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal Party)......................................................................... Skeena Routledge, Janet (BC NDP) .............................................................Burnaby North Routley, Doug (BC NDP)...........................................

Nanaimo–North Cowichan Russell, Roly (BC NDP).................................................... Boundary-Similkameen Rustad, John (BC Liberal Party)......................................................Nechako Lakes Sandhu, Harwinder (BC NDP) .................................................Vernon-Monashee Sharma, Niki (BC NDP)..........................................................Vancouver-Hastings Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal Party) .................................................... Kootenay East Simons, Hon. Nicholas (BC NDP).........................

Powell River–Sunshine Coast Sims, Jinny (BC NDP) ................................................................. Surrey-Panorama Singh, Aman (BC NDP) .............................................Richmond-Queensborough Singh, Rachna (BC NDP)...................................................Surrey–Green Timbers Starchuk, Mike (BC NDP) ......................................................... Surrey-Cloverdale Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal Party) .......................................................

Kelowna West Stone, Todd (BC Liberal Party) ...............................Kamloops–South Thompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal Party) ............................. West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal Party)....................................................... Fraser-Nicola Walker, Adam (BC NDP) ....................................................... Parksville-Qualicum Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal Party) ....................................... Richmond North Centre Whiteside, Hon. Jennifer (BC NDP) .........................................

New Westminster Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal Party)......................Vancouver-Quilchena Y ao, Henry (BC NDP) ..................................................... Richmond South Centre LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission................................................................................. Pam Alexis Abbotsford South...............................................................................Bruce Banman Abbotsford West......................................................................

Michael de Jong, QC Boundary-Similkameen........................................................................ Roly Russell Burnaby–Deer Lake....................................................................... Hon. Anne Kang Burnaby-Edmonds......................................................................Hon. Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed .................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Burnaby North .................................................................................

Janet Routledge Cariboo-Chilcotin ..........................................................................Lorne Doerkson Cariboo North.................................................................................... Coralee Oakes Chilliwack ...............................................................................................Dan Coulter Chilliwack-Kent .................................................................................... Kelli Paddon Columbia River–Revelstoke .........................................................

Doug Clovechok Coquitlam–Burke Mountain...............................................................Fin Donnelly Coquitlam-Maillardville ...................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Courtenay-Comox................................................................... Ronna-Rae Leonard Cowichan Valley ............................................................................. Sonia Furstenau Delta North................................................................................... Hon.

Ravi Kahlon Delta South ..................................................................................................Ian Paton Esquimalt-Metchosin .................................................................... Hon. Mitzi Dean Fraser-Nicola .........................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Kamloops–North Thompson .............................................................Peter Milobar Kamloops–South Thompson..................................................................Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country .....................................................................Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission ...........................................................................

Renee Merrifield Kelowna West ..........................................................................................Ben Stewart Kootenay East.......................................................................................Tom Shypitka Kootenay West........................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Langford–Juan de Fuca .............................................................. Hon.

John Horgan Langley .............................................................................................Andrew Mercier Langley East....................................................................................Megan Dykeman Maple Ridge–Mission.............................................................................. Bob D’Eith Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows............................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim............................................................ Hon.

Josie Osborne Nanaimo.............................................................................Hon. Sheila Malcolmson Nanaimo–North Cowichan............................................................... Doug Routley Nechako Lakes........................................................................................ John Rustad Nelson-Creston ............................................................................. Brittny Anderson New Westminster.............................................................. Hon.

Jennifer Whiteside North Coast ........................................................................................... Jennifer Rice North Island................................................................................... Michele Babchuk North Vancouver–Lonsdale......................................................... Hon. Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour...................................................................Susie Chant Oak Bay–Gordon Head..................................................Hon.

Murray Rankin, QC Parksville-Qualicum........................................................................... Adam Walker Peace River North ................................................................................... Dan Davies Peace River South ................................................................................ Mike Bernier Penticton ................................................................................................. Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam...................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam.......................................................................Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast..............................................Hon. Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie....................................................................Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount ..................................................................

Shirley Bond Richmond North Centre..........................................................................Teresa Wat Richmond-Queensborough..................................................................Aman Singh Richmond South Centre .......................................................................... Henry Y ao Richmond-Steveston ............................................................................

Kelly Greene Saanich North and the Islands .............................................................Adam Olsen Saanich South .............................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Shuswap...................................................................................................... Greg Kyllo Skeena........................................................................................................... Ellis Ross Stikine........................................................................................ Hon.

Nathan Cullen Surrey-Cloverdale .............................................................................. Mike Starchuk Surrey-Fleetwood.....................................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers........................................................................Rachna Singh Surrey-Guildford......................................................................................Garry Begg Surrey-Newton ..............................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama ...................................................................................... Jinny Sims Surrey South ................................................................................ Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Whalley ................................................................. Hon. Bruce Ralston, QC Surrey–White Rock .......................................................................... Trevor Halford Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek...................................................................... Brenda Bailey Vancouver-Fraserview...............................................................Hon. George Chow Vancouver-Hastings ..............................................................................Niki Sharma Vancouver-Kensington....................................................................... Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway..................................................................... Hon.

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara................................................................................ Michael Lee Vancouver–Mount Pleasant..................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey ............................................................Hon. David Eby, QC Vancouver-Quilchena........................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Vancouver–West End .....................................................Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee .....................................................................

Harwinder Sandhu Victoria–Beacon Hill............................................................................... Grace Lore Victoria–Swan Lake.................................................................... Hon. Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Karin Kirkpatrick West Vancouver–Sea to Sky................................................................Jordan Sturdy Party Standings: BC NDP 57; BC Liberal Party 28; BC Green Party 2

CONTENTS Tuesday, June 15, 2021 Morning Sitting Page Routine Business Introductions by Members..................................................................................................................................................... 2981 Statements (Standing Order 25B) ......................................................................................................................................... 2981 Elder abuse awareness S. Bond Transportation service on Highway 16 J. Rice LNG industry and projects E. Ross Personal Information Protection Act Review Committee M. Elmore Ted Itani B.

Stewart Graduates of 2021 in Maple Ridge–Mission area B. D’Eith Oral Questions......................................................................................................................................................................... 2984 Government response to U.S. legislation on cruise ship industry S. Bond Hon. R. Fleming M. de Jong Request by Squamish Nation for deferral of old-growth logging A. Olsen Hon. K. Conroy Ambulance response times and service management R. Merrifield Hon. A. Dix C.

Oakes Petitions .................................................................................................................................................................................... 2988 A.

Olsen Tabling Documents................................................................................................................................................................. 2988 Legislative Assembly Management Committee, accountability report, 2019-20 Office of the Auditor General,Community Living B.C. ’s Framework for Monitoring Home-Sharing Providers, June 2021 Office of the Ombudsperson, special report,Alone: The Prolonged and Repeated Isolation of Youth in Custody Forest Appeals Commission, annual report, 2020 Orders of the Day Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 2989 Estimates: Ministry of Finance(continued) M.

Bernier Hon. S. Robinson Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 2994 Estimates: Ministry of Health(continued) R. Merrifield Hon. A. Dix K. Kirkpatrick Proceedings in the Birch Room Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 2998 Estimates: Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure(continued) M. Lee Hon.

R. Fleming

TUESDAY , JUNE 15, 2021 The House met at 10:04 a.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers and reflections: R. Merrifield. [10:05 a.m.] Introductions by Members A. Olsen:Today I’ d like to stand and acknowledge the graduates from my riding. Gulf Islands senior secondary school, Parkland Secondary School and Stelly’s Secondary School all have graduates this year. And for the first time in my riding, theW̱ SÁNEĆ Leadership Secondary School is graduating students out of grade 12. Five students are graduating out ofW̱ SÁNEĆ Leader- ship Secondary School.

This is an endeavour to ensure that ourW̱ SÁNEĆ youth can start school in elementary and go all the way through in the SENĆOŦEN language pro- gram. They’re working their way towards that. I raise my hands to my niece Madison Olsen, who’s graduating from Stelly’s as a Stinger; and to my cousin Demetrius Olsen, who we know as Weems, who is part of that first graduating class of theW̱ SÁNEĆ Leadership Secondary School. Please, could all of the members here congratulate W̱ SÁNEĆ Leadership Secondary School for the work that they’ve done and to all of the graduates from Saanich North and the Islands. Hon. G.

Heyman:I’m honoured today to rise to recog- nize a favourite constituent, Margery Kellett, who recently celebrated her 99th birthday. Margery was born on the family farm in County Cork, Ireland. While she was study- ing in Dublin, she met her husband, Robert. They travelled the world before settling in Vancouver with their three children and two dogs in 1959. In addition to her lengthy teaching career, Margery was one of the first women wardens at Christ Church Cathed- ral, where she once helped protect sex trade workers facing harassment who sought sanctuary inside the church for three nights.

Margery is also the only person who ever hosted a meet-the-candidate gathering for me in Shaugh- nessy and managed to attract a pretty good turnout. She also has advice for all of us, at age 99. She says: “Life is completely irrational, but never miss a party. ” I hope all members will join me in celebrating Margery as she begins her 100th year. R. Russell:I have the honour this morning of wishing a very happy birthday to a constituent of mine, Nancy Koch, who next week is turning 100 years old. Please join me in wishing her a very happy birthday. R.

Merrifield:Well, my dad taught me to be fearless, to allow courage and principle to be my guide. My mom, however, taught me to listen in order to understand and to be fierce in defending those without voice — and also to always have an extra seat at the dinner table because you never knew who was going to join. Generous, bold, kind, thoughtful and still learning in their 70s, they raised four crazy kids into, arguably, responsible and contributing adults, with 14 grandkids to love. I wish that everyone could have parents like mine, and for today, this House can.

Would the House please join me in welcoming my par- ents, Bruce and Norma Merrifield. Statements (Standing Order 25B) ELDER ABUSE AW ARENESS S. Bond: Today is World Elder Abuse Awareness Day. It’s an occasion to reflect on the care and the treatment of seniors and older British Columbians. Many of our older citizens are dependent on those that they trust for support as they age. Whether living independently or in long-term care, elder abuse is a heartbreaking phenomenon that we as a society must address head-on.

Elder abuse can take many forms, ranging from physical and psychological harm to financial exploitation and manipulation. Seniors from all walks of life and in com- munities right across the province are vulnerable to being taken advantage of or mistreated. And when the person who is mistreating them is someone from their family, many seniors are simply afraid to speak up. Help is avail- able for elders and their families and friends to recognize and get support when abuse may be suspected. [10:10 a.m.] But all of us need to do more.

It is unfathomable to think that at a time when people who should be able to age with dignity and respect, they are neglected and abused. The World Health Organization recently noted that as COVID progressed, the ill treatment of the elderly has grown considerably. It has also been noted that mistreat- ment of the elderly is one of the least addressed issues in the world. Today gives us the opportunity to raise awareness and commit to increased education and preventative measures.

Now more than ever, we need to take the time to check in on those older family members, friends and neighbours and provide them with the assurance that we care. It’s up to us to raise awareness, to do our part to protect those who are vulnerable and to let B.C. seniors know how important it is to speak up so that all older British Columbians can live safely with dignity and respect. 2981

All of us have a role to play. Elder abuse is preventable. Together, today, let’s commit to making this issue a priority in British Columbia. Our elders deserve nothing less. TRANSPORTATION SERVICE ON HIGHW AY 16 J. Rice:For many years, both Indigenous and non-Indi- genous communities have asked for improved transport- ation options along Highway 16. The Highway of Tears Symposium recommended in 2006 that improved public transportation options be put in place along Highway 16. Commissioner Wally Oppal recommended in 2012 that urgent action be taken to improve transportation options along Highway 16.

For decades, many women have gone missing along the highway, many of them Aboriginal. June 4, 2018, was a proud day for me as an MLA, when B.C. Bus North’s wheels hit the ground, filling a void left by Greyhound when they pulled services from western Canada. We’ve also made improvements to the Northern Health connections bus, expanding its ridership to include seniors’ travel. We’ve also put in place community busing grants and B.C. Transit intercommunity bus service along Highway 16. Safe, affordable and reliable transportation is essential for people who live and work in the north.

Our govern- ment is committed to this goal. We recently announced a grant of nearly $8 million to Northern Development Ini- tiative Trust, to help ensure that regional transportation options are available through to March 2025. The funds are from the federal-provincial safe restart program to help offset the cost of essential public trans- portation as communities recover from the pandemic. Northern Development Initiative Trust will engage with communities and other stakeholders to determine trans- portation needs across the region, from Prince Rupert to Prince George, Valemount, Fort St. John, Fort St.

James and points in between. Northern B.C. is a vast region with many unique com- munities, several of which are isolated. Safe, consistent and affordable transportation is a necessity for many residents in the north, especially now that the province is reopening and travel will increase. I’m pleased to be a part of a gov- ernment that understands the importance of safe, reliable public transportation options for vulnerable communities. LNG INDUSTRY AND PROJECTS E. Ross: LNG Canada represents one of the largest energy investments in the history of Canada.

Once com- plete, one ship will come into Kitimat every 24 hours to fill up and take an LNG ship into Asian markets, creating what should have been the start to a world-class liquefied natural gas industry in British Columbia and Canada. The reason why LNG Canada chose to locate its $40 billion export facility in Kitimat is because B.C. has the second-largest natural gas reserves in Canada and is ideally located for shipment. With all of these available advantages, one might have thought more of the 17 other proposed LNG projects would also be under construction at this stage. Unfortunately, that’s not the case.

Just recently, the Chevron-Woodside proposed project in Kitimat has joined the list of projects that decided to leave B.C. for more welcoming jurisdictions like Australia, with 16 LNG export facilities, or Qatar’s 12 LNG facilities. This is on top of the 46 LNG liquefaction terminals world- wide, including the United States. While it remains clear that LNG Canada will be the last and only major project B.C. will ever build, there’s a glim- mer of hope for the smaller-scale proposals that survive and are trying to reach final investment decisions.

TheNis- g̱ a’a re-engaged Western LNG with the hopes of exporting LNG to Asia. Squamish Woodfibre is still progressing, as it sits on the site of a closed mill, and are making progress on their project. The Haisla Nation’s own Cedar LNG pro- ject announced their new equity partner, Pembina, in their project that is a spinoff from LNG Canada. [10:15 a.m.] B.C. didn’t fully capitalize on the energy demands from overseas, and investment did bypass us. But there’s still hope that the remaining proposals can keep B.C. on the energy-demand map, like other countries have.

I call on all members of this House to support and save what was a good start to B.C. ’s LNG export industry. PERSONAL INFORMATION PROTECTION ACT REVIEW COMMITTEE M. Elmore: As members will recall, the Legislative Assembly appointed a Special Committee to Review the Personal Information Protection Act, or PIPA, as it’s known. As Chair of the committee, I’m joined by the very capable vice-Chair, the MLA for Penticton, and I appreci- ate the opportunity to speak today about our work. PIPA governs how private sector organizations collect, use and disclose personal information.

It also requires organizations to protect and secure personal information against unauthorized use or disclosure and grants indi- viduals the right to access their own personal information. We know that we have become more reliant than ever on technology to stay connected with friends and family and to do our work. Now is an opportune time to mod- ernize our private sector privacy legislation in response to this new reality. We also want to ensure that B.C. busi- nesses are supported in protecting and using the person- al information they collect so they can remain competit- ive and successful.

Our committee is currently undertaking a public con- sultation as part of our work. We’re looking forward to hearing from British Columbians about the act. We’ll be holding a number of virtual public hearings in the coming weeks to hear from subject-matter experts and other 2982 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, June 15, 2021

stakeholders. On behalf of all committee members, I encourage everyone to take some time to share their thoughts on how to strengthen this important piece of legislation. The committee is accepting input until July 30. More details on how to participate are available on our committee website. I would like to encourage all members to share this information with individuals and organizations in their communities who may be interested in participating. The committee’s work will be presented to the Legislat- ive Assembly and made public by December 8 this year. TED ITANI B.

Stewart:It’s a great honour to rise today in this House and remember the life of an incredible Canadian with deep roots in West Kelowna. Tetsuo Itani was born in Ucluelet, B.C. in 1939. His father, Takeo, was a successful commercial fisherman, a second-generation Canadian and homeowner. Unfortu- nately, this did not stop the Canadian government from labelling Ted’s family and all the other Japanese Canadians as enemy aliens, following the attacks on Pearl Harbor in 1941.

Much of Ted’s childhood was spent in internment camps at Hastings Park and East Lillooet and then, when they were allowed to, the Itani family decided to move to Westbank on Dobbin Road, just down from my con- stituency office. Takeo grew vegetables and his mother, Sumako, worked for the Reece family at the family packing house. Ted always looked for ways to get involved in his com- munity, and he decided to…. One of the few groups that would allow him to be a member was the Cadets. He spoke of the program as giving him a sense of belonging in a place and at a time when it was difficult for him to find one.

This decision ended up shaping the rest of Ted’s life. After the Cadets, he went on with 37 years of service in the Canadian Armed Forces. He served with NATO, was involved in UN peacekeeping and humanitarian missions across the world and was awarded the Order of Military Merit in 1994. He then retired from the military and went on to a suc- cessful 26-year humanitarian career with the Red Cross and a few years ago was inducted into the Order of Canada.

The headline in the local newspaper: “Once Shunned by Canada, Ted Itani Now Among Canada’s Honoured Elite. ” I just want to read a clip from the Governor General. “Ted Itani is a role model of service to people in crisis around the world. Following a distinguished military career, he became an adviser to the Pearson Peacekeeping Centre, where he drew on his own experiences to help design peacekeeping training courses conducted by the centre around the world. A committed human- itarian, he led responses to…natural disasters, including the earth- quakes and floods that ravaged Pakistan in the last decade.

He was a senior volunteer in the International Red Cross and Red Crescent movement. ” [10:20 a.m.] Ted’s life is a story that looks like somebody that ded- icates oneself to service, despite having every reason to bear resentment towards Canada. He chose to spend his life serving his country and working to improve the lives of people around the world. His life and legacy is remembered by his community; his wife and author, Frances; Bing of 100 Mile; Nancy of 108 Mile; and sister-in-law Beryl Itani in Kelowna West — an example of dedication, resilience and commitment from which we can all learn.

GRADUATES OF 2021 IN MAPLE RIDGE–MISSION AREA B. D’Eith: I rise today in the House to say congratu- lations to the high school graduating class of 2021 across British Columbia, and especially in my riding of Maple Ridge–Mission. This past year students have shown great resilience in overcoming adversity during the pandemic, and many have dedicated time to contributing to the health and well-being of others through their actions. In Maple Ridge, Thomas Haney Secondary School’s Selma Babiker started an anti-racism club and spoke to over 3,000 regional delegates at the virtual Lifting Black Voices Y outh Conference.

Selma talked about how colour- ism had affected her in her daily life and shared the impact that this had on her mental health. At Maple Ridge Secondary, grads Tayah Bitter and Nana Y amamoto helped to organize a mental health week ini- tiative in their school. They got creative to come up with mental health activities that would respect social-distan- cing rules. Last week there was a Grad Walk event kicked off in Maple Ridge to celebrate and honour graduating schools from school district 42. Y outh partnered with local organ- izations and businesses to decorate ten storefronts along 224th.

The Grad Walk allows students and their families to take memorable grad pictures and celebrate their grad. I also heard from Jim Pearce, who’s the principal of the Mission Secondary School, about this year’s grads, and he said: “The journey has been long and complicated for this grad class. Since the pandemic started, these youth have endured part-time school, full-time school, online and combinations of those.

As principal, I’m so proud of what they’ve accomplished. ” So on my behalf, of course, and on behalf of the MLAs for Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows and Abbotsford-Mission, I’ d like to congratulate the class of 2021. My message to you is be bold, follow your dreams, reach for the stars, and in your lifetime you may literally be able to do just that. Tuesday, June 15, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2983

Oral Questions GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO U.S. LEGISLATION ON CRUISE SHIP INDUSTRY S. Bond: Well, yesterday once again, as we have been for months, we raised serious concerns about the risk of cruise ships permanently bypassing our ports. The Pre- mier was, as he has been from the very start, dismissive about the issue. Let’s be clear. The consequences will be devastating for British Columbia. We know that it will threaten thousands of jobs and impact billions of dollars to our economy. But here was the Premier’s response: “The governor from Utah may have trouble with a 100-year-old bill in his jurisdiction.

Fair enough. Change it. That’s what you should do. ” That quote and the Premier’s continued responses show how completely out of touch he is on this file. Can the Premier explain to British Columbians what on earth he was talking about yesterday and explain why he has been completely missing in action on this file from day one? Hon. R. Fleming:Thank you to the Leader of the Oppo- sition for the question. Y esterday was a very important day for all British Col- umbians and a welcome day when Dr.

Bonnie Henry, the Premier, the Minister of Health, the Ministers of Tourism and Jobs and Economic Recovery announced stage 2, announced the further reopening of our economy — a reduction of health restrictions in terms of our social and economic activities, the ability to have outdoor gatherings of up to 50 people, more in-person services being possible. Some spectator events and activities are being resumed. [10:25 a.m.] What Dr. Henry outlined yesterday was that we’re on track, over the next incubation period, to announce a fur- ther reduction in health restrictions, when we reach stage 3 on July 1.

This is fantastic news. This is a tribute to every- body who has worked so hard to keep British Columbians safe. It’s a tribute to the job that public health has done in leading this province to a place of COVID safety and the restoration of economic activity and as much normalcy as possible under the pandemic circumstances. We will also proceed to stage 4 based on how we per- form this summer for further reductions, still. So what the announcement today did for British Columbians was align perfectly with what the Premier has called for pub- licly.

He has called for the Prime Minister to take the opportunity on June 21, when the United States and the Prime Minister’s Office, representing Canada, announce what our approach will be on opening the border. The Premier has been clear that if you’re dealing with the land border, you have to deal with airports and you have to deal with ports. We are in a far better position today than we were just three weeks ago, when we were still in a COVID circuit breaker situation, when we had hundreds and hundreds of new cases per day. The vac- cination rates are continuing to proceed on pace in our country.

Now is the time for the Prime Minister to lead the discussion on what reopening the border looks like for the U.S., including for the cruise industry here in British Columbia. Mr. Speaker:The Leader of the Official Opposition on a supplemental. S. Bond: What’s painfully obvious is that this Premier has been completely missing in action on a file that is crit- ical to British Columbians. It is absolutely unbelievable that this minister completely ignores the essence of this question.

His Premier called the situation with cruise ships potentially bypassing British Columbia a “blip. ” The minister might want to reflect back on three weeks ago. Well, if this Premier have been doing his job from months ago, we would not be in the position that we are in today. It’s time for him to stand up and admit that he has made a complete mess of this file. He was wrong then, and he is wrong now. Let’s look at the now-famous words of the Tourism Minister. I would quote her words, and they will be quoted for a long time, I am positive. This government is “arrogant” in their confidence.

Y esterday that was on display in this House. Over and over, we have heard the statistics, and the members opposite know exactly what they are. Thousands of jobs are at risk. Billions of dollars are at risk. And what did the Premier call it? A blip. Y esterday what did we hear the leader of British Colum- bia say? Here’s what he said: “Fair enough. Change it. That’s what you should do. ” Well, not only has the Premier com- pletely botched this file; now we need to ask an even more basic question: on whose side is he?

When will he finally stand up for the men and women who will be impacted if this decision becomes permanent? That’s his job. He is missing in action. It is time for him to get up and fix the mess. Hon. R. Fleming:Again, to the Leader of the Official Opposition, what the Premier has done is speak to his counterparts: the governor of Washington, representing the port of Seattle; he has talked to legislators in Alaska; and most importantly, he has talked to his fellow Premiers in this country, right across all provinces and territories, about the federally decided position on the border closure.

We’re now just being able to glimpse what normalcy might look like. We are just now able to talk in a tangible, realistic way about how Canadians might safely visit their loved ones and relations in the United States and vice versa, for Americans to come to Canada. That’s the light 2984 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, June 15, 2021

at the end of the tunnel today, after a 15-month-long struggle, one that was very difficult on the cruise ship industry in particular, it must be said. We know how they in particular struggled at the begin- ning of this pandemic — tied up in ports around the world, active sites of some of the worst COVID transmis- sion outbreaks that the world knew. Now we have, just on May 6, a set of guidelines that have been developed by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control.

They’re conducting trial cruises. [10:30 a.m.] The Prime Minister, when he announced earlier this year, in February, that ports would be closed for an addi- tional year, it was an entirely different time. We forget, because time seems very compressed during this pandemic, what things were like just a few short moments ago. But at that time, many provinces were losing the battle against COVID. It was infecting more and more Canadians — mortality in seniors’ homes, a disruption of businesses, disruption of schools. British Columbia did better than most, and we’re proud of that.

But the discus- sion in February of 2021 was not about opening up the border willy-nilly in Canada between the United States. That’s a real discussion today. Today the case counts are down. Today the Prime Min- ister is meeting with his G7 counterparts, including Pres- ident Biden, about reopening the border. I expect that the Prime Minister will revisit the port closure order that he brought in four months ago. I expect that will happen. Certainly, British Columbia and this Premier have had opportunities and have taken them… Mr. Speaker:Thank you, Minister.

I don’t think this is the only question that’s going to be asked. Hon. R. Fleming:…to make our position known that the border should be opened in an orderly process. M. de Jong:We first became aware of this issue back in the end of October of last year. In February, the Ameri- cans, the state delegation from Alaska, wrote to the Cana- dian government, wrote to the British Columbia govern- ment. We raised the issue directly in this House in March. The government was dismissive. The Premier was dis- missive. The Minister of Tourism was dismissive.

By April, we were in regular correspondence with the government, alerting them to the risk that the cruise industry was articulating. And yesterday we found out, in response to questions from the Member for Vancouver- Langara, that the Minister of Tourism didn’t actually get around to writing to federal officials on the whole question of technical stops that could have provided a solution and eliminated the need for legislative amendments in the U.S…. He, apparently, didn’t get around to writing to his federal counterparts until the end of May.

How on earth are British Columbians, who are desper- ate to see a return of international tourists, whose liveli- hoods depend on the return of tourism, supposed to have any confidence in this Premier and this government when it takes four months to write a letter exploring a solution that could have precluded the need for amendments to American legislation? That’s not leadership. Will the minister explain to British Columbians why it took him four months to get off, to get down to business and write the letter that should have been written back in February? Hon. R.

Fleming:We’ve taken a whole-of-government approach since day one. IGRS has been in communication with the Prime Minister’s Office. The Minister of Tourism has met with stakeholders and her counterparts. I’ve met with my counterpart in Ottawa, both the current Minister of Transportation and his predecessor, about border issues, about ports, about the cruise industry for many months. I know the opposition likes to mischaracterize the industry. I think that’s very dangerous.

They should not be talking down the industry or COVID safety or criti- cizing a science-led approach to what has led us to a suc- cessful position today, where we’re having an active bor- der reopening discussion — led by the Prime Minister, because it is his jurisdiction — with the United States, a comprehensive border reopening announcement that we expect on June 21. [10:35 a.m.] Listen.

The CEO of the Victoria port authority had writ- ten the Prime Minister on June 11 and reminded him that his port and the industry originally supported the exten- sion in February of 2021, the closure of our ports to Febru- ary 2022, but suggests to the Prime Minister — in light of vaccine rates, in light of COVID safety increasing, in light of the USCDC developing safe sailing protocols in May of this year, last month — that the government should recon- sider whether ports need to be closed to February of 2022. That is exactly the position that I have expressed to my federal counterparts.

That’s the position of the province of British Columbia. There is opportunity, thanks to the herculean efforts of British Columbians to stay safe, to have an all-of-Canada approach that reopens our ports, our land borders and our airports in accordance with strict, scientific policies that will keep people safe. Mr. Speaker:The member for Abbotsford West on a supplemental. M. de Jong:The Americans wrote in February. This gov- ernment — this Premier, this minister — did nothing.

Worse than doing nothing, they belittled the very people who were in the U.S. who were in a position to change laws that will have a profoundly permanent impact on tourism in British Columbia. The belittling and the dismissing and the insulting con- Tuesday, June 15, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2985

tinues from the Premier of British Columbia. We saw evid- ence of it again yesterday, belittling the junior senator — who is not the junior senator, by the way. He is wrong, as he has been every step of the way through this saga. Carnival, Holland America, Princess, Celebrity, Royal Caribbean, Norwegian.Carnival Miracle, Majestic Prin- cess, Nieuw Amsterdam, Serenade of the Seas, Ovation of the Seas, Celebrity Summit, Norwegian Bliss. What do all of those names have in common?

They’re all ships that, next month, are going to begin sailing to Alaska, right past British Columbia ports like Victoria, Vancouver, Campbell River, Prince Rupert, and they won’t be stopping there. What’s worse, because of this minister’s inaction, this Premier’s inaction, this government’s inaction, there’s a chance — a very good chance — that in the future, they won’t be stopping either. I can’t believe that even today, after everything that has taken place, there are still people on that side of the House dismissing that as not a possibility.

Will the minister, on behalf of the government, explain, in the face of a challenge that has materialized, that is real, that the Americans intend to pursue, why it took him four months to write a letter to the federal authorities articu- lating and advocating on behalf of British Columbia for a solution that could have made all of this go away? Hon. R. Fleming: A very interesting bit of historical revisionism from the member opposite. In February of 2021, only 2.3 percent of Canadians were vaccinated, and 0.1 percent of Canadians were fully vac- cinated.

We were in dangerous winter conditions that enhanced the spread of COVID. People indoors. Harsh restrictions. Some provinces — not ours, but some provinces — in full and complete lockdown. What was preoccupying the minds of the country and Canadians in general was not a hypothetical cruise ship reopening in July. It was about how we were going to get towards a safer future in our country. How we were going to get more vaccine into this country. How we were going to keep one another safe. How we were going to support each other.

How we were going to roll out programs to keep businesses, communities and workers whole. So for the opposition to say that was their preoccupation…. But it gets worse, in terms of how erratic this opposition has been. In the middle of the circuit breaker — a measure that was absolutely necessary in March of this year, just a couple of months ago — when case counts were about 1,150 on a rolling seven-day average and projected by our provincial health officials to go as high as 3,000 if we didn’t take additional steps….

In the middle of that circuit break- er, the member for Kamloops–North Thompson was say- ing an entirely different thing about borders. He was say- ing we should have a hard border enforced on Alberta. They weren’t talking about reopening of borders with the United States. They were talking about taking steps that no province even has the constitutional authority to do. Instead, we brought in a ban on non-essential travel. We brought in restrictions that kept people safe… Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members, come to order, please. Minister, thank you. Hon. R.

Fleming: …and we started to see the case counts go down. We came out of that circuit breaker lock- down two weeks ago. [10:40 a.m.] That’s what letting scientists lead on COVID policy- making decisions looks like. That’s what’s kept British Columbia safe. REQUEST BY SQUAMISH NATION FOR DEFERRAL OF OLD-GROWTH LOGGING A. Olsen:Last Thursday Squamish Nation clearly gave notice to the province that they want old-growth logging in their territory deferred.

Squamish Nation spokesperson Khelsilem said: “The government is infringing on our rights by allowing these sites to be logged without our per- mission and without our consent. ” In his response last week to the Huu-ay-aht, Ditidaht and Pacheedaht request for deferrals, the Premier said: “The first step in protecting old growth must be respecting Indigenous Peoples’ land management rights in their ter- ritories. ” The Minister of Forests was also eager. She said: “True reconciliation means meaningful partnerships, listening to Indigenous Peoples and trusting their steward- ship of their territories.

This is a step in the right direction, but we know there’s more work to do. ” If the Premier and this minister are sincere in their promises to respect land management rights of Indigenous Peoples in their territories, we will see an immediate posit- ive response to Squamish Nation’s assertion of their rights. Simple question to the Minister of Forests: has she accepted Squamish Nation’s request for deferrals on old- growth harvesting in their territory? Hon. K. Conroy:I thank the member for the question. Our government has received several requests from First Nations to implement deferrals.

We’ve responded to all incoming requests and are committed to working with them. We have been working with the Squamish Nation since last fall and have deferred some areas in their territ- ory, as we speak. Mr. Speaker:The member for Saanich North and the Islands on a supplemental. A. Olsen:I think Squamish Nation is being clear, and I’ll be clear. They don’t want talks about protecting bits and pieces, small areas here and there. The nation is calling 2986 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, June 15, 2021

for an immediate two-year deferral in its entire territory. They’ve identified at least 20 cutblocks with old-growth logging planned for the next five years, a point the minister does not want to talk about. The minister said recently: “The first step is putting Indigenous Peoples at the centre of land management in their respective territories. ” That’s a dramatic difference than the response that we just heard, which is just more rhetoric. The Premier set a precedent in his riding.

Finally, after more than 100 years, Indigenous nations have a pathway to stewarding and conserving their lands and can negoti- ate better economic terms than the pittance that this gov- ernment has ever offered them. It’s an exciting time. For decades, this province has been operating a cut-and-run forestry policy. Now the decisions can be made by people who live on and care for the land. My question, again, is to the minister. The minister and Premier have said they’re embracing a new era of Indigen- ous people making decisions in their territories. Our rel- atives in Squamish have made their decision.

They’ve been clear about what that decision is to this government. Will the minister do the honourable thing and immedi- ately grant a full set of deferrals, pausing old-growth har- vesting in the Squamish Nation territory? Hon. K. Conroy:I thank the member. Our government is committed to reconciliation and environmental protec- tion, which we believe must go together. The days of mak- ing unilateral decisions without Indigenous Peoples are over. The member is quite accurate.

We’ve been clear that the first step to protecting old growth is putting Indigenous people at the centre of land management in their territories. That’s exactly why our government is working with the Pacheedaht, the Ditidaht and the Huu-ay-aht First Nations to defer old-growth log- ging in their territories — discussions that have been ongoing for a while. The member has said that we are reaching out to nations. We have responded to nations that have asked for deferrals.

We are having those important, confidential government-to-government discussions. [10:45 a.m.] We will continue to do that with nations across the province who are looking to have more access to the land management in their traditional territory, to be able to have a say in how their land is managed. It’s critically important to this government. We are moving forward. We will have more deferrals to announce this summer. AMBULANCE RESPONSE TIMES AND SERVICE MANAGEMENT R. Merrifield:Well, we’ve heard a flood of stories of people who have had to wait unbearably long hours for an ambulance.

The government says it doesn’t happen that often. But to the people who are waiting in excruciating pain, it’s happening far too often. Troy Clifford, the head of the paramedics union in B.C., says that delays and waits are becoming the norm: “We need to modernize the service delivery model, recognize this profession is vital to public safety and health care and recognize the professionals doing the work and treat them similar to other health care professionals. ” Seniors shouldn’t have to wait hours in their own waste. Accident victims shouldn’t have to drive themselves to the hospital after waiting five hours.

No one wants to hear that the Premier wants to deflect blame. Can the Premier tell British Columbians what he’s going to do to fix this crisis in our health care system? Hon. A. Dix:What we’ve done since 2017 to address the situation amongst ambulance paramedics I think should be well known to the member. We’ve more than doubled the increases the ambulance service gets every year, com- pared to the four years prior to my becoming Minister of Health and the Premier becoming Premier.

We’ve added, since last fall, 263 positions, and as of July 2, 434 additional positions will be posted, based on a plan that we worked together with the union, with CUPE Local 873, the Ambu- lance Paramedics of B.C, and on a contract we negotiated together. Of course, every time someone calls 911 we need them to get the service they deserve. Every time there’s a prob- lem with that, it’s a subject of concern for every ambulance paramedic and for the B.C. emergency health services. That’s why we’ve put together an unprecedented invest- ment. We’ve added an unprecedented number of ambu- lance paramedics.

Y es, we’ve treated ambulance paramedics with respect, rather than taking away their rights at the bargaining table. We’ve added to those rights since 2017, treating them as other health care workers are treated: with respect and with dignity. Mr. Speaker:The member for Kelowna-Mission on a supplemental. R. Merrifield:Well, despite the minister’s urging that more money is being spent, more money is not the answer for mismanagement.

Troy Clifford has been clear that mis- management has been leading to these delays becoming the norm: “They have an obligation to staff ambulances and put two paramedics in them, to make sure we have enough dispatchers to answer the call, to make sure that we can provide medical assistance while they wait for the ambulances. That’s not happening right now. It hasn’t been happening for a while. ” In my area of the province, the problem of vacant cars is posing a serious challenge. This includes no advanced life support for the Okanagan two nights a week for a few months now.

In other regions, stations like Kimberley and Tuesday, June 15, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2987

Pemberton are being downgraded to part-time and on- call, despite increases in population and calls. This is put- ting people’s lives at risk. Again to the Premier, when will he move to fix this crisis before someone pays a heavy price with their life? Hon. A. Dix: Well, since the pandemic began, we’ve added 55 ambulances across B.C., particularly in rural and remote communities, who were particularly underserved before. Since the pandemic began, we’ve added five new air resources to our ambulance system to improve services, again in rural and remote communities.

Since last fall, we’ve added 260-plus ambulance paramedics positions, and we are posting more than 400 on July 2. We’ve done this because of the priority we give to the ambulance service everywhere in B.C., moving to more full-time paramedics, hundreds of new positions.

All of the efforts we’re making are necessary because we do have to modernize the ambulance service into the 21st century. [10:50 a.m.] Some of that work, it should be said, occurred under the previous government, particularly the actions of George Abbott when he was Minister of Health, in adding com- munity paramedicine, which stabilized the ambulance ser- vices in rural and remote communities. We have built on that work, the best that was….

But we also added resources that were never put in place to ensure that rural B.C. gets the ambulance service it deserves and that we add ambulance paramedics everywhere in B.C. The member wants a plan. There is a plan. That’s why we’re adding hundreds of positions. C. Oakes: Quesnel is one of five rural remote stations that is being deeply impacted by this transition that happened in April, under this new model that this minis- ter has been talking about, which is now leaving us with a single ambulance. Quesnel receives 1,300 calls per year. The reality is that the second car is no longer staffed.

That means the local station is serving a population of 35,000 people with one car. Further, the station covers a very large geographic area. It can take hours to get to one call in Nazko. What happens if there’s an accident on Highway 97 near McCle- ese Lake many, many hours away, or what happens if someone is under cardiac arrest in Quesnel, where the timing is the difference between life and death? People are worried now. They’re worried about what happens when they call for an ambulance and there just simply isn’t one because we don’t have the staffing.

Again, in Quesnel, they could get 12 calls in a six-hour period, and they cannot possibly meet all the requests. What hap- pens when staffing becomes even more challenging in July and August? Please, will the Premier step up, do the right thing and fix this crisis so that the people in Quesnel have proper ambulance care? Hon. A. Dix: Thank you to the member for her ques- tion. As the member will know, 55 new ambulances in rur- al and remote communities. Significant addition in full- time paramedics in the Cariboo since 2017. Additions to community paramedicine. That focus.

The focus on improving service in rural B.C., as we do transition to a model of more full-time people, which is exactly what rur- al B.C. deserves…. The old model of ambulance service didn’t work adequately for the people of rural B.C. in the modern real- ity of rural B.C. That’s why these very significant invest- ments, the most significant investments ever made in paramedic services in rural B.C., have been made in the last three years. It’s what I think MLAs across rural B.C. have been calling for, for a long time. It is what we intend to continue to deliver.

These were added to when the Premier announced on April 20, 2020, additional resources and services for rural and remote communities at the time of COVID. This pri- ority is real. We continue to add spaces and add services, including in the Cariboo, in order to ensure that we give people the service they deserve. It is a challenge, in a very big province, to provide such services. B.C. emergency health services has been given the resources and been given the direction to deliver those ser- vices across rural B.C.

I think the significant investment over the last three years is a demonstration of that. [End of question period.] A. Olsen:Mr. Speaker, I seek leave to introduce a peti- tion. Mr. Speaker:Proceed. Petitions A. Olsen: Today I stand to introduce a petition on behalf of the Fawkes family, Emma Epp and Ella Hale. Twenty-five hundred people in just two weeks from across B.C. have rallied around the disgraceful treatment they received at the hands of the Royal Jubilee Hospital to call for an independent review of psychiatric emergency ser- vices in the Vancouver Island health region. That’s what the petition is here.

Tabling Documents Mr. Speaker:Members, I have the honour to table the Legislative Assembly Management CommitteeAccount- ability Report 2019-20. I also have the honour to table the Auditor General’s report,Community Living B.C. ’s Framework for Monitoring Home-Sharing Providers, and the Ombudsperson’s special report 48,Alone: The Prolonged and Repeated Isolation of Youth in Custody. 2988 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, June 15, 2021

Hon. M. Farnworth:I have the honour to present the 2020 Annual Report of the Forest Appeals Commission. [10:55 a.m.] Orders of the Day Hon. M. Farnworth:In this chamber, I call continued estimates debate, Ministry of Finance. In the Douglas Fir Room,

Section A, I call continued estimates of the Ministry of Health. In the Birch Room,

Section C, I call continued estimates debate for the Ministry of Transportation. Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF FINANCE (continued) The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); S. Chandra Herbert in the chair. The committee met at 10:56 a.m. The Chair:We’ll take a five-minute recess to get this all set up. Then we’ll return for the estimates for Finance. Thanks, everyone. The committee recessed from 10:56 a.m. to 11 a.m. [S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.] On Vote 26: ministry operations, $307,466,000 (continued). M. Bernier:Good morning, everyone.

Good morning to the minister and her staff that are assisting her. We’ll move right into it. Obviously, yesterday we spent a bit of time, kind of high level, on some issues. I just want to go back to finish off where my train of thought was, if the minister will indulge me. This is around the increased employment incentive. We had just about finished wrapping up some questions I had in there. There is some interesting information that came out of that. We have all these employers who were applying for this 15 percent tax credit.

I was quite surprised to find out that we don’t really have a lot of data that’s collected through that application. The minister acknowledged that they were trying to make the process as simple as possible, as quick as possible, which I completely support. At the same time, interested…. As we’re running these govern- ment programs, sometimes the data is important. We did find out yesterday that we didn’t really know how many were full-time or part-time employees. We did find out that there was around $5.5 million of $190 million that’s been expended to date. I won’t get into that too much further.

Since we don’t have the part time, full time…. I was wondering. In the data that’s being collected, though — I’m assuming, at least, when people apply for this cred- it — do we have the information on how many are new hires and how many are just wage increases that they’ve applied for? Hon. S. Robinson: Y es, we did canvass this program significantly yesterday. I had read into the record that we had net new employees. We had 4,163 net new employees, which is good. It’s doing what the program intended, which was to have these people employed in the last quarter of 2020. M.

Bernier:I’m going to move on to a different train of thought. This is around the contingency funds. Budget 2021 contains about $3.25 billion in pandem- ic-related contingencies, $1 billion the year after and $300 million the year after. Also, reading through the budget documents, it appears that there’s $1.1 billion that’s devoted to unanticipated recovery measures. One of the concerns or one of the trains that I want to canvass here is…. [11:05 a.m.] Moody’s credit-rating agency has highlighted that 58 percent of projected annual deficits are accounted for in contingency funds. I look at that.

We have a lot of unal- located contingencies that have taken place. So when the minister announces, through a budget document, I would argue, a fairly large deficit, but within that deficit it appears there are large contingencies that are unallocated funds…. Now, the minister will say or has said in past conver- sations in this House…. Of course, there are a lot of unknowns. We’re in the middle of the pandemic. Hope- fully, towards the latter part of the middle of that pandem- ic…. We continue to use the phrase “middle. ” My question is…. There is a large contingency built in. What is the plan?

Does the minister have a plan to fully utilize those contingencies at her disposal that are within this budget, and what would they be used for? Hon. S. Robinson:I’m grateful for the public service that are speaking in my ear and helping me find the right page so I can get the correct information for the member.

As you can see, there are a number of binders here, and understanding exactly which binder information is in can sometimes take a little bit of doing. [11:10 a.m.] I think it’s really important to get on the record that the pandemic and recovery contingencies allocation, as the member rightly pointed to, at $3.25 billion for this year, has some notional allocations, recognizing, again, that this pandemic has continually evolved and shifted over these last 15 months. Tuesday, June 15, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2989

It’s why, for example…. The circuit breaker is a perfect example of a program where we needed to be quick on our feet, recognizing that the pandemic was getting away on us as a province, so public health put in orders to change our behaviour and, essentially, shut down restaurants. So hav- ing the circuit breaker grant available — and then extend- ing it, when that got extended, was really about being a responsive government. It’s for that reason that we’ve put in significant contingencies — pandemic and recovery contingencies — so that we have the flexibility to adapt to the changing landscape of this pandemic.

It’s with that in mind that we put together these pan- demic recovery contingencies. The notional allocations are $900 million for health and safety measures. We continue to recognize that there are challenges, going forward, around making sure that we are responsive. We still need contact tracers, for example. We still need extra cleaning protocols. I know that we’re all looking forward to schools opening up, but we want to make sure that they continue to be safe. What does that look like, going forward? So we need to have some flexibility built in. We have $1.2 billion for supports for businesses and people.

Again, not sure when borders are going to open. What is the impact going to be on the tourism industry? How are things going to be, moving forward? And remember, when we put this budget together, we were just hearing about how quickly we could move on our vaccination, but the expectation was that we wouldn’t be fully vaccinated until well into the later part of this year, perhaps by the fall. It looks good. Things are moving more quickly, but, again, not having any certainty about anything meant that we needed to be ready for whatever inevitability might present itself.

We’ve allocated notionally, again, $200 mil- lion for preparing for recovery. We want to make sure that we can help businesses adapt to the new landscape. Then we have set aside…. The remainder is for unanti- cipated urgent health or recovery measures. Again, we have been through 15 months of unprecedented times. The word is overused. I will freely admit that. I think it’s over- used. But I can’t think of another word, and if the mem- ber has another word, I’ d be happy to incorporate it into my lexicon. But at this point, it just feels so unprecedented.

Making sure that we are ready for whatever this pandemic may throw at us, I think, is really important. I just want to finish off with this. The decision of public health to vaccinate more people with a single dose was seen as controversial back in the day. It was a decision made based on science, but we didn’t know what the impact was going to be. Certainly, now, finding out that that’s better than double-dosing everybody else and leav- ing people without any vaccination — is the better way to go. It was the right decision. But, again, it’s hindsight that we know. But at the time….

Y ou know, we trust science, and we certainly trus- ted public health. But we really felt…. I think it’s being a responsible government to make sure that you have your inevitabilities covered off so that you can continue to take care of people, as we have over the last 15 months. M. Bernier:I was trying to brainstorm for another word other than “unprecedented, ” but I’m actually stuck as well, to come up with another one at this time. But unpreced- ented in the sense that I think many of us didn’t see this coming. But it has been here, now, for a year and a half.

During that year and a half, I hope that we have — gov- ernment has — learned a lot about what’s working and not working and how to help people. So I do acknowledge that sometimes, obviously, contingencies for the unknowns are important. Can the minister, then, for the record, just con- firm…? Because contingencies are supposed to be for those unknowns. That’s my understanding, anyway. Does that mean that there is no routine or structural spending that will be utilized? None of this money will be utilized for routine measures or structural spending? [11:15 a.m.] Hon. S.

Robinson:If I recall the question — and I’m trying to remember which way it was phrased — our com- mitment and this commitment that I’ve made, certainly, before, in this House, is that any spending that is not used for pandemic response and recovery, health response and recovery, will go to pay down the deficit. It’s not to be used for other purposes.

I want to remind the member that, just like last year, we will be reporting out quarterly on where these particular resources are going as part of our response to the pandem- ic and recovery initiatives that government is undertaking, again, to support the people of British Columbia. This is about making sure that people have the health resources, have the supports that they need to get through to perhaps what we’re calling the tail end or the beginning of the end. I’m not quite sure what to call this phase that we’re in.

Phase 2, but it feels like we’re coming to an end and mak- ing sure that communities can recover. That’s, I think, the key focus for all of us. What does recovery look like? How do we support the opportunities that come with recovery, because I think it’s important to be really clear that there are certainly opportunities for us. I’m looking forward to working with all members of the House to capitalize on the opportunities that are before us as we move through to this final leg of this pandemic and into a normal and a time when we can actually put the pandemic behind us. M.

Bernier:Maybe the minister can just clarify for me one of her comments there, just so I understand. Maybe the House understands. The minister said: “If the money was not utilized, it would be used to pay down the defi- cit. ” What I think the minister would acknowledge, for the first time in quite a while, we’re in a deficit budget situation. So we wouldn’t be paying down the deficit. I 2990 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, June 15, 2021

assume it would be borrowing less money and the deficit that the minister would announce at year-end would be less than projected. Hon. S. Robinson:Perhaps I misspoke. It’s about redu- cing the deficit. Y eah. M. Bernier:Just wanted to give the minister the oppor- tunity for that. One of my concerns on this is we’ve seen to date, on a lot of the different programs, that we have been unable to, for varieties of different reasons, get a lot of the money out the door.

Some programs have been a bit more successful than others, and some have been struggling — as we’ve heard in the last one that we campaigned of only $5.5 million out the door out of $190 million. Where I’m going with this is: where is the certainty that the minister will, hopefully, give the House that we’ll have this money in the budget, that we have these programs that are within contingencies? Because, of course…. Just to back up a moment, when the minister comes out with her budget document…. She’s talking about a 60-plus-bil- lion-dollar operating budget; plus, we’re over $100 billion in debt.

I mean, there are a whole bunch of different things built into a budget. We’ll get into some of the specific details after. Obviously, one of the concerns — Moody’s raised it, and I’ll maybe talk about that a little later — is when we’re put- ting these large contingencies in the budget, is it to overin- flate to make the budget look worse than it is, just to come out later and say: “Hey, it’s not as bad”? The whole intent, I would assume, is to actually get this money out the door, to actually help people.

The minister has been very forthright with her com- ments yesterday, and I assume today as well, that that’s the intent. But there are so many people that are falling through the gaps right now, so many people that are need- ing help. A lot of these programs are to support those people. [11:20 a.m.] What flexibility is there within government? What man- date or direction has the minister given to the other min- isters that are responsible to ensure that this money and these programs are successful and the money gets out the door to help people? [11:25 a.m.] Hon. S.

Robinson:In response to the member’s ques- tion, certainly, $6.7 billion in the last fiscal year went out the door to support people in businesses and communit- ies. That’s about being a responsive government. Whether it’s rent supplements, worker benefits, it was just really about supporting people in the moment, when they needed it. We’ve certainly continued that as the pandemic has evolved. We’ve remained nimble, because that is what responsible governments do: to remain nimble to the uncertainties.

For example, we have the circuit breaker, and $125 million is the estimated amount that has gone out to and will have gone out to businesses, as a result of public health orders. Again, this is about being nimble to the changing nature of this pandemic. I also think, to the member’s question about building prudence into this budget, it’s the respons- ible thing to do when you’re faced with uncertainty.

I think we can all agree in this House that, if anything, the pandemic has become this uncertain beast that we’ve all had to face in trying to figure out how to best manage not just as individuals but, certainly, as families, as busi- nesses and as communities — about how we keep ourselves safe and how we keep each other safe. That has meant people having to make other choices, like not par- ticipating in community events, not going to the gym, not going to restaurants and not participating in life as we know it. That has had implications.

What that means for us as government is: how do we help people to get through it? We will get through it. We are getting through it. That’s really exciting for all of us. Again, when we built this budget — we need to remember that we built this budget earlier this year — certainly, what we were faced with was a lot of uncertainty. Here we are into this beginning of the end, the end of the beginning, or the end of the middle — I don’t know what it is — of this pandemic, and we have a bit more certainty, for sure. We know that vaccinations are working. We are in the next phase, which is really exciting.

Again, that builds cer- tainty, and that’s a good thing for all of us. At the same time, I don’t want to get too cocky in the face of this pan- demic, because it continues to throw punches at all of us. I think the responsible thing is to have significant provi- sions available in the face of uncertainty. As I said to the member earlier, our commitment is to reduce the size of the deficit, if these resources aren’t needed. M. Bernier: Thank you to the minister for that. Nobody’s arguing the fact that we want to get the money out the door and that we try to help people.

The biggest concern, obviously, that we continue to hear is that there are a lot of people falling through the gaps still. We want to ensure that we find those mechanisms in place to help them. Now, the minister, if I understood her correctly — and, somewhat, with her last answer as well — is confirming that none of this money will be used for routine spending within ministries, that these are earmarked toward spe- cific, if I may say, COVID-related challenges, which are unanticipated and which are not routine.

We assume the money will not be spent in those areas, because, otherwise, they should have been allocated and defined specifically in the budget, if that was the case, if they were structural or routine spending. That’s why I wanted to just ensure that we had that discussion. Tuesday, June 15, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2991

I don’t want to get into the political debate too much with the minister on this — because I think I’ve been enjoying the back-and-forth dialogue to date, just trying to get factual information on the record, for the public, as we go through this — but I’ d just remind the minister, too, that the whole idea, the minister said, of delaying the budget by a couple of months, to April, was to try to avoid the uncertainty. We look at this, and there still seems to be….

I assume the minister will stand up and say: “Of course, there is uncertainty, because we’re still in the middle or, hopefully, at the end of a pandemic. ” But the financial prudence and the responsibility is still to try to determine as many cer- tainties as possible as we move forward. There’s still $1.1 billion, though, within this that’s unanticipated. [11:30 a.m.] I should say, by the way, that the money we’re talking about within the budget is notional. I should clarify that, if the minister has not already.

These are notional dollars that we’re talking about — $1.1 billion of unanticipated measures, I believe — to be covered under unallocated. My question. In a perfect world, a lot of these dollars will be fully allocated; a lot of the dollars within the con- tingencies will be fully spent. We will get that out the door. The minister mentioned the circuit breaker. We haven’t seen success yet, but arguably, we want to.

So if, for instance, the minister responsible is able to get all the money out the door for the circuit breaker funding for the different programs and finds that there is still need, has the — I don’t want to say cabinet — Finance Minis- ter highlighted, for the other ministers responsible, that we have $1.1 billion still sitting here — so if there are pro- grams that are fully allocated, they can come back to the Minister of Finance and ask for additional funds to contin- ue on in the programs or reannounce next phases of pro- grams, especially if there’s still need out there? Hon. S.

Robinson:I’m pleased to answer the member’s question about how, as Finance Minister, I work with my cabinet colleagues, because I think that that’s really what the member is asking. I engage regularly with my cabinet colleagues, of course. In putting together this budget and presenting a budget, this was built with their input, for sure, around what they were anticipating or not anticipating. That’s really the chal- lenge we had before us in putting this particular budget together, that there were so many unknowns. Putting together a budget with so many unknowns is certainly a challenge.

It’s based on their best advice — on the advice of the public service in all of our various ministries — about what they had seen, what they had learned over the year of having lived through a COVID pandemic, and doing their best to identify what the needs were that were temporary needs that relate to COVID and what, perhaps, unanticip- ated needs might be. It was their sound advice and their recommendations that got built into this budget. So my colleagues are well aware of what’s available should there be need. Again, I want to get on the record that it is really about: should there be need.

This is about dealing with the pandemic, dealing with recovery. It’s not to be built into the budget — the base budget, I think, is what the member was referring to. It’s really about continuing our nimble response as we see our way through to the very end of this pandemic. We know that we are going to need to continue to have a response. I would imagine, even once we’re completely vaccinated, there may be still some fallout that may present itself that we need to respond to. We started off our discussion yesterday around, “This is really about people, ” that we can go back and forth around numbers, and we have.

I want to acknowledge that my col- league has continued, also, to talk about people, which is good, and businesses, because that’s really what we’re here to talk about. Again, we need to make sure that however things play out, we remain nimble, continue to be respons- ive to the needs of people. That’s really how the circuit breaker response played out, which was: we know we have a contingency. We’ve had an order that we weren’t expecting. What do we need to put in place to help people get through this next bit? Then, of course, we extended it, because it went longer than we anticipated. So again, we extended it.

This is really about making sure that we’re nimble and continuing to respond, and my colleagues around the cab- inet table know that as a Finance Minister, they can always come to me and identify where additional supports are needed for the people of this province. [11:35 a.m.] M. Bernier:Thank you to the minister. With $1.1 billion of unallocated, notional…. I appreci- ate what the minister is saying. Obviously, we want to get the money out the door, but like I said, we’ve seen some of these programs that do not get fully utilized, subscribed, by the people for a multitude of different reasons.

Some people know there’s a program there and may choose not to apply. There are other reasons outside of government, I would say, for people not applying. To that, though, we are hopefully — I think as a lot of us were saying as we moved into stage 2 — starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. The minister and I used that phrase quite a bit last fall: the light at the end of the tun- nel. It was coming. We just didn’t know how long the tun- nel was, I think we were saying. But the end of that tunnel, hopefully, is getting closer, and the light is getting brighter. With that, the question then….

We’ve got these pro- grams in place. Is the $1.1 billion going to be treated the same way as contingencies and unallocated dollar amounts? If all of these programs are not fully subscribed, or they are fully subscribed and no need, hopefully, for 2992 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, June 15, 2021

continuation for the supports, because the economy is starting to come back and people are back at work…. Is the $1.1 billion going to be treated the same way, then? It will just not be borrowed? It will not be part of the deficit? It will not be allocated in any way? It can be scratched off the list, and that’s less money the taxpayers need to borrow? Hon. S. Robinson:Y es, that is accurate. It is part of the global $3.25 billion pandemic and recovery contingencies. It will be used only as needed. I want to point out, just to again get it on the record, that we are….

A full account of spending under the pandemic and recovery contingencies will be disclosed as part of the regular quarterly financial reporting. The member, every- one in the House and all British Columbians will be able to see how those funds get expended. M. Bernier: It’s really important on those quarterly reports. That brings me a little bit to Moody’s and other credit-rating agencies who look at the books, who look at the province, look at our budget, our spending and projec- tions around our credit rating. This might be odd.

I want to actually congratulate the government and the minister for continuing to have what, when we were in government, is a triple-A credit rating. I think that’s really important on behalf of taxpayers. That’s really important, and it’s good to see that this government for now has and hopefully con- tinues to have that triple-A rating for that base. But the baseline credit assessment, though, did drop a little. It was downgraded to a double-A-1 for the baseline credit assessment that’s done. It was highlighted in there by Moody’s some of the concern of the province….

The pos- sibility of not being able to rein in spending when you look at the projected deficit, not only this year, but into future years with no certainty of when that may or may not end. Moody’s also notes that the multi-year structural defi- cits expects our debt to double. They expect our debt to double over the next five years.

In fact, I found a quote here, that the BCA downgrade — which I just referenced — reflects the resulting further deterioration of the province of British Columbia’s debt burden. “The debt burden was already on a rising trajectory pre-pan- demic, and Moody’s now projects it to double over a five-year period. ” I guess that puts me to a question. Does the minister feel Moody’s assessment of our provincial budget is accurate? Does she actually see our debt possibly doubling over the next five years? [11:40 a.m.] Hon. S.

Robinson: While I will acknowledge that Moody’s did provide the province with a triple-A credit rating which puts us in…. And we have maintained it the entire time that we’ve been in government. We are com- mitted to making sure that we have a strong fiscal frame- work for delivering services for British Columbians, and maintaining our credit rating is absolutely critical to us. [11:45 a.m.] Moody’s assessment is seen as a recognition of the province’s priorities.

I think, certainly, they acknowledge that we’ve made our priorities at a time to repair the economic damage that the pandemic has done and sup- port people through the pandemic. They recognize what we’ve done. They also recognize that recovery won’t happen over- night. I think that they see how, globally, this pandemic has impacted economies all around the world. But they also recognize that our focus, our priorities of focusing on people and focusing on businesses and focusing on com- munities and creating new opportunities for people, build- ing certainly a more affordable province….

We can ensure a strong economic recovery. So all of these things I think — I believe — as well as our history in having a strong eco- nomic performance have provided them with confidence about what the future looks like. Now, the member talked about Moody’s having lowered our baseline credit assessment from a triple-A to a double- A-plus equivalent. It does reflect a deterioration in the credit profile, given multi-year deficits. We look out on a three-year plan, and we can certainly see that as well — the rising operating capital expenditures accompanying rising debt, for sure. They certainly recognize that.

However, in spite of that — and I think this is the part that I want to emphasize — and because of our diverse economy and the prudence built in the budget that we were just talking about and discussing here in this House, they have confidence in our ability to implement the meas- ures to sustain our fiscal strength. I think that’s the com- pliment to us as legislators, as stewards — that they recog- nize that in spite of all those things, they see our path. They see our cultivation of making sure that we can get through these next number of years.

They also note that we have the most affordable debt burden in Canada, which, among our peers, is also very significant. This is really, I believe, a more than half-full-glass sort of story, especially given the pandemic and given all the chal- lenges that our peers are experiencing, with our diverse economy and with the people of this province. We have incredible people here. Moody’s recognizes that the future does, indeed, look bright, albeit we need to be cautious and build in prudence, which we’ve done. They recognize that we are worthy of a continued triple-A credit rating overall. M.

Bernier:Y ou know, I have never been the Finance Minister, but I’ve had many friends, including this minis- ter, who are Finance ministers. I think every single one of them would say it’s one of the more difficult jobs in gov- ernment. I think that’s fair to acknowledge. There’s a big burden there, because if you lose a credit rating, if you lose a notch through that fiscal planning, it’s a big responsibil- Tuesday, June 15, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2993

ity of the minister on behalf of not only her political party, obviously, but the taxpayers for British Columbia. I think it’s also fair that Moody’s also points out — and the minister doesn’t need to comment, because it’s part of the reality to this — that a big help to this provincial gov- ernment and all provincial governments was federal bail- outs, as well, that took place in the last year, 18 months, the majority of that due to the pandemic. I’m just looking at the chamber getting a little busier there, Chair. I might have time for one more question before lunch.

Since we’re on the topic of the credit ratings, can the minister quickly tell me…? Maybe I shouldn’t use the word “quickly, ” because that’s not always fair. Is the minister able to tell me what the annual debt-servicing payments are right now? I’ll just go for this fiscal — the debt-servicing payments based on the debt we already have. [11:50 a.m.] And then — her staff can help her with this, I’m sure — if we actually were to lose a notch on our credit rating, instead of it being a triple-A, what impact would that have to the budget for increased costs that we would have to incur in debt-servicing? Hon. S.

Robinson:I’ve still got lots to hear from my folks, so I move that the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again. Motion approved. The committee rose at 11:54 a.m. The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair. Committee of Supply (Section B), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again. Committee of Supply (Section A), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again. Committee of Supply (Section C), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again. Hon. S. Robinson moved adjournment of the House. Motion approved. Mr.

Speaker:This House stands adjourned until 1:30 this afternoon. The House adjourned at 11:55 a.m. Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF HEALTH (continued) The House in Committee of Supply (Section A); H. Y ao in the chair. The committee met at 11:06 a.m. On Vote 32: ministry operations, $23,725,698,000 (continued). R. Merrifield:Where we left off was on rapid testing. Just to remind the minister, we were talking about, asking, if there was funding allocated towards the expanding use of the rapid testing. I believe the minister said the short answer is yes.

I was wanting to follow up with another question, which is: who is being consulted on the rapid testing framework at this time? The Chair:I do apologize, but due to technical issues, we’re taking a one-minute recess. The committee recessed from 11:09 a.m. to 11:18 a.m. [H. Y ao in the chair.] The Chair:I now recognize the minister. Hon. A. Dix: Thank you very much, hon. Chair. I’m unhappy to say that I think we lost four or five rating points there, but fortunately my colleagues are still stead- fastly staying with us. I’m honoured by that.

The member may know that we’re working closely, through both the Ministry of Jobs and Economic Recovery and through the provincial health office, with the Business Council of B.C. to support businesses interested in a point- of-care screening program. This is a program they’re developing with us, which will provide support to busi- nesses interested in this. [11:20 a.m.] Businesses obviously will have to meet an eligibility requirement and sign an agreement with the Provincial Health Services Authority, which is very much involved in this around quality assurance.

What the BCBC program — the member will know Greg D’ Avignon, who has taken a leadership role in this area, with the B.C. Business Council — will provide is a concierge-type support to make it easier for businesses to do so. The plan in that program includes support for busi- 2994 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, June 15, 2021

nesses with the application process, of course; understand- ing the quality assurance, which is critically important in such a program; training on the use of point-of-care tests; implementation of a screening program; and report- ing solutions that meet federal and provincial reporting requirements. All of this is consistent with the broader Canadian initiative that the Canadian Chamber of Com- merce is involved in. But here in B.C., it will almost cer- tainly be the Business Council program, because we don’t need two programs, that will support all of these initiat- ives.

Public health and, obviously, others are consulted. There are further discussions that are beyond the realm of the Business Council with the non-profit sector, which also, as the member would imagine, would have its own interests in this regard. Those consultations are taking place as well. It involves public health; it involves health authorities; it involves, significantly, the Provincial Health Services Authority, which houses the B.C. Centre for Disease Con- trol. It’s obviously being led in consultation with what we sometimes call JERI, or the Ministry of Jobs, and the Busi- ness Council of B.C. R.

Merrifield:Just to clarify, the minister is referencing businesses and framework around businesses and rapid testing. But during last week’s estimates, the minister said that rapid testing was going to be used in long-term-care homes, schools and workplaces across the province. With respect to the…. Whether it’s the schools, the post-secondary institutions, the food-processing plants and the congregate care or living; whether it be farms with housing or work campuses or work camps, how are all of those being brought into the framework that the minister just spoke of, with respect to the businesses? Hon. A.

Dix:What I said, I believe, to the hon. member — I’m happy to be corrected on this — is that it has been used in a significant number of long-term-care homes. I’ d be happy to provide the member with a list of long-term- care homes. Very significantly in rural and remote com- munities, very significantly in B.C. Corrections, where it plays a useful and important role in that congregate and other congregate settings. In some of the school outbreaks, it’s been used, and so on.

Those are the things that have been used since Decem- ber but, most importantly, since March, where rapid test- ing has been used by public health to address, principally, exposure events and outbreaks in different settings across B.C. What we have is…. Rapid point-of-care testing is anoth- er tool for public health to use, in addition to the more sig- nificant PCR testing program they have to address and to support communities and workplaces and get information to public health sooner, so they can help people sooner. Those are all places and examples of places where point- of-care testing has already been used.

Obviously, it would be our intention to continue to do so. R. Merrifield:As the minister knows, COVID-19 is likely to be around with us for a long time. What I am attempting to ascertain is whether or not the minister has looked at an overall framework for deployment of rapid tests that expand to all of the different sectors that he’s already mentioned, as well as the business sector, to really give British Columbians that security and confidence when they are moving into an open economy and moving into the next stages of our opening.

Would the minister again consider deploying a rapid testing community program that would encompass all of what has been mentioned previously and that would also allow for the evolution of rapid testing as more of these types of tests are available? Hon. A. Dix:What the member is describing is exactly what public health has been leading with its point-of-care testing program since they became available in B.C. [11:25 a.m.] Public health started by validating the tests — which, as the member will know, the federal government is unable to do.

We released our testing strategy on March 1, which provided wider use in workplaces and settings where there is a higher risk of outbreak and transmission. That includes industrial camps, food processing plants, post- secondary residences, and so on. That process continues to expand. The other thing that’s changing — transforming, I think it’s fair to say — is that through the early stages of the pandemic, the technology around testing didn’t move as quickly as the technology around vaccines, I think it’s fair to say.

So there are, now in Canada and largely I think in other parts of Canada, some home-based tests that are available. As the technology changes and as the needs of the pandemic change, the strategy will evolve. This work that we’re doing with the business council is a reflection of that ongoing strategy. The key testing continues to be PCR testing.

The good news, of course, on that is that our testing program, which has the capacity of over 20,000 but it’s not obviously being used to that capacity, is the results of that have become dramatically better, such that I think the seven-day rolling average of test positivity for people who are largely symp- tomatic in those testing environments was 2.4 percent over the last seven days. R. Merrifield:Of the approximately — I didn’t check the number this morning — 146,000 cases in B.C., how many individuals are suffering from long COVID? Hon. A. Dix:I think we are, right now in the pandem- ic, at 15 or 16 months.

I think it’s fair to say that many people — and it reflects the seriousness of COVID-19 Tuesday, June 15, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2995

as a virus — and especially people with associated con- ditions, pre-existing conditions, are affected and some- times dramatically affected over the long term with COVID-19. For a virus that came into existence in our consciousness, really, at the end of 2019 — at least that’s when I first heard about it — and then, obviously, a pan- demic was declared in March. In some ways, we’re still at the early stages of understanding. What we have done is establish five centres to address the issues of people who are having ongoing effects in their COVID-19 diagnosis. There have been….

We are in the stage of obviously doing our own reviews of that through the BCCDC and support for people at the grassroots level by our clinicians and, of course, family doctors and nurse practitioners across B.C. There are, across the world, studies being done. But those studies are in the initial phases. We have to…. I think part of it is understanding that when the member asks for a number, well, that effect on individuals may be different. So you need to establish

definitions before you can estab- lish numbers. But what we do know and what it reminds us of and why everyone needs to get vaccinated and why we need to continue to follow public health guidance and measures is that no matter what your age is, getting COVID-19 is a big problem. For some people, perhaps not, or it’s less of an impact. But the potential of having long impacts beyond mortality or hospitalization is significant.

There have been some studies, but most of the studies around long COVID in the world have focused on those who have been hospitalized. [11:30 a.m.] Obviously, the overall percentage of people who are suf- fering ongoing illness is more significant amongst those that already have significant illness. They’re either in hos- pital or critical care. That group of people — clearly the recovery time is different than it is for someone who isn’t hospitalized. So this is obviously an ongoing area. This is a significant area of study everywhere in the world. Everyone sees the same thing.

I don’t think there’s a place in the world where people would say: “Well, there is X number of people right now. ” What we do know is that COVID-19 is a vicious, nasty, rotten virus and that it can affect…. Of course, it can lead to people’s deaths and serious illness and hospitalization, but it also can have long-standing effects. That is something that the world community, I think, is going to significantly address. It is going to be one of those primary care issues, principally, that we’re going to be addressing in the coming days and weeks and months.

In fact, we’re already addressing it at five specialized centres, but to be effective, we’re going to have to deliver care through communities everywhere. That means by providing excellent information and support to primary care physicians, to primary care nurse practitioners, to nurses and, obviously, to communities everywhere in B.C. R. Merrifield:What I heard the minister say was that right now we don’t really have a definition of long COV- ID. We have five centres that are providing some form of resource for these individuals.

To date, we haven’t really quantified or studied, and we need to expand how we are treating patients with long COVID through our GP net- work. I believe that is what the minister said. If I said anything incorrect there, I’ll leave it to the minister to correct me. My biggest concern is that we’re not collecting the data on these individuals. We don’t have a way to actually quantify what’s happening or quantify the impact on these particular individuals. How much is the ministry investing in the research, in the definition and in the expansion of services for long COVID? Hon. A.

Dix: First of all, I’ d say that there is a sig- nificant group of researchers, which is the post COV- ID-19 interdisciplinary clinical care network, the PCN- ICCN, if you’re keeping track at home and you like the acronyms. It’s the first network of its kind in Canada to standardize post COVID-19 care through health author- ities and to integrate real-time research, which was really necessary in this case because of the immediacy of this, into clinical care.

Involved in this are the B.C. academic health sciences network, the Simon Fraser University faculty of health sciences, the University of British Columbia’s Faculty of Medicine and Nursing, the School of Population and Pub- lic Health at the University of British Columbia, the Cana- dian Institute for Health Information and the Michael Smith Foundation for Health Research where there’s a sig- nificant…. I’ll provide the member with a list of recent grants that have been provided related to COVID-19. And the Canadian COVID-19 prospective cohort study.

The intent is to provide truly evidence-based care, to have a core of supports that would be around the centres but, clearly, to provide that evidence-based care and to deal with the best possible evidence as soon as possible across the B.C. health system. What is going to be required, as with, I think, all good care, is both specialized work and research, and that is happening here in a way that I think, to date, is unique in Canada. That’s a good thing, and that reflects the approach of the very committed people that are dealing with this subject.

Also, obviously, the assurance of that information and that research can inform practice. What COVID-19, as with other…. For people who have long impact, it has the effect of a chronic disease. The care that we provide for all other things through the urgent primary care centres, primary care networks, doctors’ offices, nurse practitioner centres and public health around the province…. [11:35 a.m.] The work we’re doing on COVID-19 and for those 2996 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, June 15, 2021

who are still dealing with those lasting consequences on their health has to be a part of that. It is not, obvi- ously, the only thing that people in the province struggle with, but it’s an important thing and an immediate thing right now and one which we’re learning more informa- tion every single day. One of the things I have the privilege with is obviously meeting on a daily basis with Dr. Bonnie Henry. Dr. Henry will — I don’t think the right word is regale — describe the most important research that’s ongoing on COVID-19. I’m not sure….

I think it’s very advantageous basically not to take any time off and to read everything as she does. Her and her team are obviously both focused on this and deliv- ering the best possible and the highest level of support and research to people across the province. It’s not an issue of not knowing numbers. But when there’s going to be different effects of COVID-19, it’s not just going to be one effect. It’s going to be a number of dif- ferent effects and people dealing with a number of differ- ent conditions.

The research work that we’re doing now, across these platforms, is important work for the future of people’s health in B.C. R. Merrifield:There are quite a few

definitions already in use throughout studies across, really, the globe. I am a little bit curious as to why B.C. wouldn’t choose to use some of those other

definitions and then study those that are presenting with those symptoms, within our own com- munities, and also to formulate a support system around them. Having said that, I’ll go back to what the minister was talking about, in terms of the different research centres and then how patients will be treated. What is the amount of money that is being allocated to this research, in terms of studying, data collecting and treating long-haul COVID patients? Hon. A. Dix:Just to put this in context, in terms of fin- ancial implications, and this involves COVID-19-related research.

In total, approximately $58.7 million from pro- vincial and federal sources. So $34.4 million of that is pro- vincial, and $24.3 million of that is federal. It’s being inves- ted to support the research response of the pandemic. What I’ll do, because we’ve had some interruptions this morning, is share the details. I could read them all out, if the member would prefer. This involves many of the agen- cies, both within…. And the support that we’ve given to the BCCDC Foundation to do so. I think those are the sig- nificant research investments.

Of course, it’s undoubtedly the first of many, with respect to our recovery clinics, three of which were opened at the time when this note was done. As of May 4, 656 patients have visited post-COVID recovery clinics in B.C., and 1,400 people have registered — 135 of those to the Jim Pattison Outpatient Centre; 235 to Vancouver General Hospital; 277 to St. Paul’s Hospital; and nine, at the time of just opening as a soft launch, at the time of May 4, the Abbotsford Regional General Hospital.

Just to note that a significant portion of that and the work is this patient registry and biobank, so that we have a standardized set of tests performed, biological samples if the patient agrees that these tests can be used for research and stored in the biobank. This is how research is done and, obviously, our researchers, who are amongst the best in the world, are working closely with international researchers all the time. The idea that we’re behind or not listening to other jur- isdictions is not correct. If I gave any impression of that, I wish to correct that, because that’s not the case.

In fact, B.C. is a leader in Canada in this research. This is a struggle for people. It’s a struggle for people with COVID-19 who are dealing with its lasting impacts. That’s why these resources have been proposed, why this research is there and why COVID-19 and the impact of COVID-19 — its lasting impact — both on our physical health and, I’ d argue, on our mental health, as well, will have to be the subject of both resources and study and effort, starting now, but throughout the coming years. [11:40 a.m.] R. Merrifield:Much appreciated.

I do appreciate the answer to the question, and I also salute any time that B.C. can be a global leader. So thank you for that further clari- fication, Minister. I’m going to turn over the next question, actually, to my colleague from West Vancouver–Capilano. K. Kirkpatrick:Thank you to my colleague from Kelowna-Mission for the time today. Last week my colleague asked the Minister of Agricul- ture, Food and Fisheries about the health concerns posed by fur farming of transmission of COVID-19. As you know, there have been several COVID-19 outbreaks linked to ten of the fur farms across British Columbia.

In January 2021, jointly, the WHO, UN Food and Agriculture and World Organisation for Animal Health documented the risks and estimated the risk of spillover from fur farms to humans in Canada as very likely and the transmission of COVID-19 from fur farm animals to susceptible wild pop- ulations as likely. The minister, when asked, confirmed that there have been some concerns that have come with COVID, as COVID-19 can transfer from mink to human and human to mink. “We have had some positive tests that have come back from fur farms….

We’ve been working with the Min- istry of Health on that. ” “ As far as making decisions, ” she said, “around mink operations and COVID and shutting farms down or not, we take our guidance from the public health officer on that. ” My question to the minister. I’ll put two together for the sake of time here. Was the advice of the public health Tuesday, June 15, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2997

officer sought prior to the breeding season for mink in British Columbia? Second part of that is: why didn’t the Ministry of Health recommend the closure of these farms prior to the breeding season? Hon. A. Dix: This is an issue in which, obviously, the provincial health officer and the BCCDC have been very involved, and Dr. Henry and our really remarkable team in Fraser Health as well. The group of people that have been involved in this include the Public Health Agency of Can

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20210615am-Hansard-n94
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20210615am Hansard n94
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	dedca722cfe1e962b548641b321588a2513a6c0e

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