May 3,

RESOURCE COMMITTEE

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Gerry Rogers, MHA for St. John's Centre,

substitutes for Lorraine Michael, MHA for Signal Hill Quidi Vidi.

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, John Dinn, MHA for Kilbride, substitutes for

Tracey Perry, MHA for Fortune Bay Cape La Hune, for a portion of the meeting.

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Kevin Pollard, MHA for Baie Verte

Springdale, substitutes for Eli Cross, MHA for Bonavista North, for a portion of

the meeting.

The Committee met at 9:00 in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Brazil): Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to welcome everybody

to the Estimates Committee for the Department of Tourism, Culture and

Recreation.

I would first like to start by asking the Committee if they would introduce

themselves, but I first should note that we do have a substitute. Ms Rogers is

filling in for Ms Michael. Welcome.

We will just ask the Committee where you are from, your district and your

name, please.

MR. CROSS: Eli Cross, MHA for Bonavista North.

MS PERRY: Tracey Perry, MHA, Fortune Bay Cape La Hune.

MR. RUSSELL: Keith Russell, Lake Melville.

MR. BALL: Dwight Ball, Humber Valley.

CHAIR: You can introduce your staff too, please.

MR. BALL: Diane Randell, Researcher, Official Opposition Office.

MS ROGERS: Gerry Rogers, St. John's Centre, and the amazing Daniel Smith, NDP Office.

CHAIR: Thank you.

I would like to welcome the minister; and I do understand, Minister, that you

have had some minor medical issues. We will go through it, and if it becomes too

painful then we can recess and reassess again if that is fine with everybody.

I will ask the minister if he would introduce his staff or have his staff

introduce themselves. I do ask that when you do ask to speak, if there is a

question passed on, be cognizant of announcing who you are so that Hansard can

record it properly.

MR. DALLEY: They can introduce themselves. Go ahead.

MS HEARN: Judith Hearn, Deputy Minister.

MS TAYLOR-ASH: Mary Taylor-Ash, Assistant Deputy Minister of Tourism.

MR. M. JONES: Mark Jones, Assistant Deputy Minister for Culture and

Recreation.

MS QUINTON: Diana Quinton, Communications Director.

MR. S. JONES: Scott Jones, Departmental Comptroller.

MR. HYNES: Darrell Hynes, the minister's Executive Assistant.

CHAIR: Thank you.

Before we start I have a bit of housekeeping to do. Could I have a member

make a motion to accept the minutes of the April 30 Department of Environment

and Conservation budget line reviews and the May 2 Department of Fisheries and

Aquaculture minutes?

MR. RUSSELL: So moved.

CHAIR: So moved by the Member for Lake Melville; seconded by the Member

for Fortune Bay Cape La Hune.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Opposed?

Minutes carried.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: As everybody should be aware of now, the process would be to give

the minister fifteen minutes, if he needs that much, to just do an overview of

his department and the budget lines itself very quickly, or just an intro on his

department. Then we will go directly into the Opposition to start on the budget

lines themselves.

I have in the past, because there have been some new members, given some

latitude when they got into questions that were not directly related to the

budget lines. I want to stress because of time frames that we keep it as much as

possible to the line budget issues relevant to the discussions.

Mr. Minister.

MR. DALLEY: Thank you.

I will not make a lot of comments to open, but I do just want to reference

our department, I know you are familiar with it, but in terms of Tourism,

Culture and Recreation we are the department that is responsible for the arts in

the Province, the culture and heritage side, as well as supporting recreation

development, and obviously tourism.

We are guided by our strategies. In 2006, we had a cultural strategy which in

working with industry partners we were able to develop a new plan and a new

direction which we want to focus on particularly for the preservation, the

promotion, and certainly any economic value of the arts, culture, and heritage

in this Province.

In 2007, we came out with a new Recreation Strategy which was very positive

in working with industry partners to be able to refocus, put more attention into

recreation and sport in the Province, focus on Active, Healthy Newfoundland and

Labrador, the challenges in schools, obesity issues, and all kinds of things,

and a focus on society in general towards healthier living. The strategy was

very timely as well.

In 2009, we had a new strategy for tourism in the Province, a tremendous

collaborative effort that enabled us to develop Uncommon Potential: Vision 2020,

map out a direction we want to go with tourism, and be able to align the efforts

within the industry. Obviously, we have had tremendous success with our tourism

in recent years.

I will make a brief comment from the budget exercise and the line items. I

think you will see as we go through, we are not a large department, but what we

do is obviously very significant. It has a great impact on stakeholders and

communities. We went through a budget exercise, particularly the 3 per cent

exercise; our true focus was to try to ensure that recognizing our core mandate,

recognizing some specific things where we need to catch up, where we need to try

to focus on this year as well through different aspects of the department.

We try to share the 3 per cent exercise out so that everybody kind of took a

little part of the fiscal management. I do not say everybody because that is not

exactly how it worked, but we did share it out as best we can. Our goal and

objective was to try to minimize obviously the impact on our frontline and our

stakeholders.

We are pleased that we are able to achieve that for the most part, but fully

recognize that we have come a long ways in our programming and there are still

challenges, there is no question about that. We realize that and we want to

continue on the path that we have been on and work with our industry

stakeholders; we have had great feedback from them. We have great partnerships

out there in all aspects of our department. I think it is very positive for us

and very positive for the Province and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I just want to kind of have my words and kind of give you some sense. I think

as you go through line by line and you will see how little pieces of money have

been carved off here and there to try to help spread out what we are doing.

Having said all of that, we are very upbeat and very positive about our budget.

We are going to continue the great work that has been done in recent years. We

look forward to the year unfolding and moving forward with obviously working

with our industry partners. With that, Mr. Chair, questions.

CHAIR: Mr. Minister, again before I turn over to Mr. Ball, I just want to

outline the process that I will use. We will go fifteen minutes back and forth.

If you are close and you only have a question or two left, a minute or two you

need in a particular heading on a budget line, I will give you the leeway, just

let me know, if that is fine with everybody, so that you finish that heading and

move on to another one.

Mr. Ball.

MR. BALL: Perfect. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I really have no problem with my colleague here, Gerry, if we are into a

particular category and the conversation is going and there is a question I

know what we have found in some other Committee meetings that it made it more

efficient; the staff do not have to move around certain categories.

If there is something that I am saying that I might have missed in a certain

area, and Gerry wants a follow-up question, I have no problem with that at all.

I certainly understand the conditions that the minister is working under this

morning, and if we have to break and recess or whatever it is, we have no

problem; we will co-operate fully for sure. We certainly understand that.

The process for us so far, as everybody is somewhat familiar with, is that we

prefer to go through a line by line and then we will get the questions out there

and see where we are. What I will try and do is actually use the numbers there

and go through the certain bullets. So, if I use a bullet, that is probably the

line item that you can go down to.

We will get started. For us, it will be 1.2.01 is the first question I would

have. That would be under the General Administration, Executive Support. The

salary line there 01, we see a budget decrease there of about $132,000. Does the

minister want to explain that for us, please?

MR. DALLEY: That reflects two salaried positions that were transferred

over to social Strategic Planning and Policy. You will see that figure show up

again, a similar figure show up 1.2.01.01 is that the one you are

MR. BALL: Subhead 1.2.01.01, Salaries.

MR. DALLEY: Sorry. That reflects the reallocation (inaudible) and

primarily what we have done here is we are looking at special events like we

have had over the past couple of years World War I planning commemorations. We

are looking at obviously celebrating Newfoundland and Labrador's role in the

wars

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MR. DALLEY: We can try again: Salary reallocation and it is in the

special events area which we will be focusing on World War I commemorations.

MR. BALL: Okay.

When will they start?

MR. DALLEY: We are in the planning stages for that. It is kind of a

post-Budget announcement but a significant piece of work is being done and

something we are looking at doing over the next two to three years.

MR. BALL: Okay, good.

MR. DALLEY: We will have a full announcement on that coming soon.

MR. BALL: Good.

The next one would be 1.2.02 Gerry, I do not know if you have anything in

the first category there before we move on?

Subhead 1.2.02, the salary position there this is where I would imagine you

were referring to earlier. Is there one

MR. DALLEY: Yes, that is where we transferred basically two salaried

positions. They stayed in the same positions but we transferred in the proper

budget place, I guess, in Strategic Planning and Policy. These positions are a

front desk position and a registrar's position. They have not changed. We just

moved them to Strategic Planning and Policy because that is basically who they

report to.

MR. BALL: Line item 03, Transportation and Communications, we went from a

budget last year, $464,000, revision to $367,000, and this year's budget at

$104,000.

MR. DALLEY: What we did again, that is basically moving some money

around. What was happening in that particular administrative support section, we

were taking care of some of the mail outs and the trade show booth costs, these

kinds of things for Tourism, but it was being administered and taken care of in

this section. So, what we have done, we have transferred roughly $360,000 out of

that line item and it has gone to 2.1.01.03, which is over in Tourism.

MR. BALL: Okay, so I just want to question the revenue there, I see it is

a consistent line. Obviously there is only $10,000, but where would you generate

revenue?

MR. DALLEY: The two areas there, basically one is travel advances.

Sometimes when people travel they get a travel advance, but then when we get

that back, it has to come in as revenue. That is primarily what it is.

MR. BALL: Okay.

The next page would be the Strategic Planning and Policy, 1.2.03, and we see

the salary increase I think I know the answer there now from $131,000, the

revision is $343,000, to the estimate this year of $426,000.

MR. DALLEY: Yes, Salaries. Again, that is where the transfer has been

reflected from admin support and those two positions will show up there.

MR. BALL: Okay.

Professional Services in the same category, 05, there was no budget last year

and you spent around $100,000 for something. What was that for?

MR. DALLEY: That was basically in consultation through a process in

looking at the information management process within the department, we realized

some work needed to be done, and working with OCIO as well. So, basically what

that was is we hired an information management consultant to be able to come in

and work with us in management protocols. What we did is we kind of scratched

and clawed where we could, and that position was not a position, but it was a

consultant that was hired to do that piece of work.

MR. BALL: That was information management, and what would they do?

MR. DALLEY: Basically, the issue that we wanted to address was the

storing and accessing of information, and files and all kinds of things that go

through the department. It is a process in terms of risk management and being

able to ensure that we are following the proper protocols for managing the

information in our department.

MR. BALL: Okay, good.

The next one under Capital no surprise here to get a question on this one,

being the Grants and Subsidies. I think I know what the answer is, but you had a

budget last year of $2.8 million, up to $3 million, and then now up to virtually

$9.5 million.

MR. DALLEY: The significant increase there is for the Colonial Building

revitalization.

MR. BALL: That is what I thought.

MR. DALLEY: It is over $6.6 million. A part of that as well you will see,

the revenue side, is the federal portion. That is the significant increase there

under grants.

MR. BALL: When is that expected to be done?

MR. DALLEY: The Colonial Building?

MR. BALL: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: In 2014.

MR. BALL: Okay.

Did you have a question, Gerry?

MS ROGERS: I just have a question about the Colonial Building. What are

the plans for it?

MR. DALLEY: As you know, it is a commitment that our government made in

looking at the Colonial Building. One, it is obviously a very important heritage

structure, but certainly a venue which will tell our very rich political history

as well. There is a process that we have been following, different phases; I

will get to that in one second.

We have different construction packages that we need to go through. Right now

we are up to the second construction package. There are five in total. To date,

the architectural design work has been completed. There have been some reports

done on the historical structures themselves. In the Colonial Building there are

two very significant murals on the ceilings. They have been restored as well.

MS ROGERS: Great.

MR. DALLEY: It is that process as we go through its outlines that we will

be able to get to the point where obviously it is all done. It has to be done in

phases and stages and try to protect the integrity of the heritage structure

itself through the process.

MS ROGERS: Once it is completed, how will it be used? Is the whole

building going to be primarily a historic site museum, or will we have anybody

else involved in it?

MR. DALLEY: No, I think the plan is obviously it is a historical

part

in the building itself and protecting that part of our heritage. As well, there

will be some office space in there. Right now, my sense is it will be used by

some of our own groups, some of our provincial associations and so on. I think I

have that here. That is what we are hoping in terms of some of our heritage

groups and our professional staff and so on, that we house here as well.

MS ROGERS: Some of the professional staff from within Tourism, Culture

and Recreation or non-government organizations?

MR. DALLEY: Again, I am not sure how much space or exactly what would be

available, but I do know there were some groups operating in the building. As we

get the building done, the hope is that we would be able to have some of our

provincial organizations there as well. It would be a little early to speculate

as to what or how much of that we can do. Part of the vision and hope is that we

would be able to provide space.

MS ROGERS: Great.

MR. DALLEY: It would be a great venue to work out of and it fits in. Once

this building is done it will probably be the flagship of our historic sites in

the Province. It is a significant investment but we certainly feel it is

worthwhile.

MS ROGERS: It is a great move.

Thank you.

MR. BALL: In 2.1.01 Tourism Marketing, Transportation and Communications,

we have seen some increase there; $345,000 last year, down to $259,000 and then

up to $580,000 this year. It is a virtual doubling.

MR. DALLEY: The transfer of the $360,000 that we referenced earlier, that

is where it is transferred, to this line item. That is the reason for the

increase.

What we are seeing, the piece that was done in Admin Support in terms of

supporting postage that was involved, as well as some of the communication. They

had professional booth space. These kinds of things that were administered there

are now going to be administered here.

MR. BALL: Is that part of the answer for 05. Professional Services, too?

It went from $433,000 to $425,000, to $255,000.

MR. DALLEY: No. Professional Services, what you see there, particularly

the decrease in professional services, last year we engaged in a number of

surveys to get up-to-date and get some more accurate and current information

about our tourism and what is happening in tourism trends so that we can support

the operators out there in the Province.

We did surveys. Last year we did an exit survey. We did a resident survey,

and we did a Labrador survey. This year we will not need to do those surveys, so

ultimately, the reduction in that budget.

MR. BALL: Were they ever released?

MR. DALLEY: Not yet, because we are in the process. It will be, of

course. Industry is certainly looking forward to it. It is quite a bit of

information, and we are processing all of that and having it done so we can get

out of that data what we need to get out of it. So, we are in that process of

analyzing data.

MR. BALL: I do not ask that question to be probing, although I am

curious.

MR. DALLEY: That is fine.

MR. BALL: All of this information is so important for communities to do

up strategic planning, and you get obviously groups of areas.

For instance, the area that I live in, we look forward to having this kind of

information that is current stuff that is available to us to be able to do

strategic planning on communities in certain areas. So, I think the faster we

can get that out there and make it available to those groups, it would be

extremely important.

MR. DALLEY: If I can just add to that. The current information will

identity our trends, our market, what people are telling us. That is going to

feed not only our department and the direction that we would want to go in, but

the private sector is a very important part of our tourism industry. They are

looking for this kind of information to help guide their own personal

investments as well, besides the non-profits. Obviously, IBRD is supporting the

economy. So, it is a great circle that this information will certainly feed, no

question.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

When can we expect some report?

MR. DALLEY: We are expecting something in the fall on the exit survey.

MS ROGERS: In the fall, great.

MR. DALLEY: It is certainly a priority for us, because as we know, with

data and information we do not want to sit on it because it becomes outdated.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: We want to try and make it as current as possible, so the

fall is our plan.

MS ROGERS: Have you seen any particular trends, just sort of a thumbnail

sketch of any surprises or any trends that you might have been able to look at

so far?

MR. DALLEY: We have some data on the Web site, and early information

what we are seeing, obviously, is a huge increase in air travel.

MS ROGERS: Air travel.

MR. DALLEY: Numbers are up significantly, and the road traffic is down in

terms of the vehicle traffic. So that is one of the things that is kind of

MS ROGERS: Coming into the Island.

MR. DALLEY: seeing it is important and giving us some information. So,

that is probably one of the things that jumped out early, and we have had those

stats upfront. The surveys will give us more of a feedback from the tourists

themselves and the personal experiences, and what they like or do not like, or

information they can share with us.

MS ROGERS: Great.

MR. BALL: If we turn the page to the Strategic Product Development,

2.1.02.

MS ROGERS: Before you go ahead

MR. BALL: Yes, sure.

MS ROGERS: Line 2.1.01, still Tourism Marketing. Grants and Subsidies,

can we have a list of those?

MR. DALLEY: Sure.

MS ROGERS: Great, thank you.

I just have a few broad-stroke questions around Tourism Marketing as well

and I want to say congratulations on the successful marketing campaign. Lost and

found is just great, and the marketing towards stay home is just great.

MR. DALLEY: Thank you.

MS ROGERS: So often we see people equating arts and culture, and tourism

that everything has to be done for outsiders. To celebrate within our own

Province and to encourage tourism and attendance at arts and culture events

within our own Province is just so laudable. I congratulate you on such a very

gorgeous campaign and, I would imagine, a successful campaign. I would like to

get to that, too.

What are the plans, or do you have any, for the coming year? Now, I know that

would be planning for next year. Are there any specific plans or directions in

your marketing for next year coming up?

MR. DALLEY: The short answer is yes. We have had tremendous success with

the Find Yourself campaign. Obviously, we monitor that with some of the industry

stakeholders as well, our Tourism Board, the people we work with, Target

Marketing as well, that do a lot of work for us.

We have had tremendous success with that. As long as that continues to

provide the appeal we want and we continue to get the tremendous feedback we

get, obviously, we are going to stay focused on that campaign. It is about the

chapters in our story, and we have many, many chapters and many stories left to

tell. That will be our primary focus.

Throughout that whole marketing piece and throughout what we do to try and

promote the Province, it is not just our ads. We have a lot of things we do to

help promote Newfoundland and Labrador, whether it is through magazines,

newspapers, supporting certain groups with some marketing support, our trade

shows that we go to, or whatever might be the case.

We will continue to focus on those kinds of things, but our focus and our

marketing focus will continue to be on our people, our culture, and our natural

environment. Our focus is to get people to come to Newfoundland and Labrador. We

believe we still have a great story to tell, so we will continue to focus in

that direction.

MS ROGERS: Are there any plans for further and more creative uses of

MR. DALLEY: Back to one of the trends that you had mentioned, we are

finding more and more that the on-line tools are becoming the way of the future.

Particularly in terms of what tourists and how they are managing their trips. We

are doing some development around that. We are going to do more of the on-line.

Uptake has been good. We feel we will get more. We see an uptake here and

perhaps less in terms of travel guides and those kinds of things because people

are going in to do their own.

As well, we are looking at developing an app.

MS ROGERS: Oh, good. I was just going to ask you that.

MR. DALLEY: So, we are trying to get modern, and our information tells us

over 80 per cent of the people are carrying iPhones or BlackBerrys, or

cellphones or iPads, so that is an area that obviously we are going to continue

to focus on.

MS ROGERS: Are you working at all with any other departments within the

provincial government looking at the gaps in the broadband services and

cellphone coverage in the Province, as it relates to tourism?

MR. DALLEY: Well, obviously it is always a concern for us. We recognize

that there are certain areas of the Province, and that is a part of, as we

develop our on-line tools, we have to recognize that not everybody is tapped in

on-line, and as well that some of things are not working in certain areas.

We continue to work closely with IBRD, in terms of our message and needs, and

they continue to push as well, as we have seen with government investment, $8

million last year and $2 million this year in the Budget. We have come a long

ways, as we know, when it comes to broadband and particularly that area. We have

a ways to go, as well. We recognize there are a lot of smaller communities and

regions that we want to continue to be able to get better quality, so we will

continue to work together on that.

MS ROGERS: Have there been any audits done on the success of the program?

We all feel in every fibre of our being that it has been very successful, but

have we done any empirical work there in terms of

MR. DALLEY: Maybe I could ask Mary if she could provide a comment on

that.

MS TAYLOR-ASH: I guess the success in the program has been the growth in

tourism, and that has been our primary indicator that we are on the right track.

In 2010 we had a record number of non-resident visitors to this Province. In

fact, it was as many people visiting here as live here. I think the compound

growth has been about 3 per cent. We do

MS ROGERS: Did you say 3 per cent?

MS TAYLOR-ASH: Compounded since 2003. Overall since 2009-2010 the growth

was something like 7.3 per cent, and then the growth in expenditures from

non-residents was over 9 per cent. So you are talking about the proof is kind of

in the pudding in terms of the growth that we have seen.

We also do, with Agency of Record, target marketing. We obviously also work

with them to see how things are in the marketplace, how our ads are being

received, how our different kind of marketing activities are being received. So,

we also work very closely with them to make sure that we are on mark and on

target.

MS ROGERS: In any of your surveys are you looking at all at what the ad

campaign promises and the satisfaction of tourists, in terms of what is

delivered?

MR. DALLEY: (Inaudible) particularly with the exit survey, that is a core

piece that we want to get a sense from tourists as to what their experience was

like here in Newfoundland and Labrador. One of the themes obviously is come

experience our people, our culture and our environment, come to Newfoundland and

Labrador for a rich, authentic experience, and we want to hear back from them as

to what it was like.

Through all of that as well, again we will work with our industry, our

Tourism Board and Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador and our Destination

Management Organizations. We are looking at taking some of that feedback and

looking at the whole issue of quality assurance as to what actually is happening

out there on the ground, specific experiences whether it is with a B&B, a

restaurant or the whole service piece that is attached to our industry. We are

looking forward to getting that information as well and that feedback.

MS ROGERS: I have just one last question in this area. The Atlantic

Canada Tourism Partnership how is that going? How much money is allocated for

that? What are the benefits and has there been an audit on the success of that

program?

MR. DALLEY: Maybe I would ask Mary to provide some feedback on that.

MS TAYLOR-ASH: The Atlantic Canada Tourism Partnership is a very

beneficial partnership that we have. We have spent about $480,000 to be part of

that and it leverages so much more money because we are leveraging federal

dollars. It enables us to be marketing in marketplaces where we as a Province

would not be able to have our brand could not standalone. Some of the

destinations, for example, enable us to be in the UK and market there, as well

as to do some work in Germany. We need to have the broader Atlantic Canada brand

to be in that marketplace.

Also it enables us to be in the US in some markets there. Yes, it has been a

very successful partnership.

MS ROGERS: Are there any other specific targeted populations or regions

now that you are planning, like Japan for instance?

MR. DALLEY: I will let Mary answer again. It is a good point you make

because, as we know, we want people from all over the world to come, but it is

our research and what it tells us in terms of the target market who is

travelling, what type of visitor we are getting and we focus on some key areas.

Certainly some of the Canadian market, Calgary, Ontario, these are still prime

markets for us, and the US as well to some extent. As we know the dollar

fluctuates and has an impact on the US market but still a very important market

to us.

MS ROGERS: Thanks.

CHAIR: Mr. Ball.

MR. BALL: Okay, we will keep going to 2.1.02, Strategic Product

Development, the Professional Services. There was $100,000 budgeted last year,

it does not look like we used much of it, and that is now gone.

MR. DALLEY: Sorry?

MR. BALL: Line 06, Purchased Services, or 05, Purchased Services.

MR. DALLEY: Purchased Services.

MR. BALL: Sorry, Professional Services. What is it we have discontinued

there?

MR. DALLEY: Basically what happened there, that is a zero-based budget.

Each year we would have to submit a budget so that as it works, if something

comes up, we need to be budgeted for it. That was a zero-based budget, but we

did not really use much in Professional Services. We transferred that funding as

you will see to Purchased Services, which ultimately it ended up in Grants and

Subsidies. That is how it worked. Basically it came out of Professional Services

and ended up into the $100,000 increase in Grants and Subsidies from $321,000 to

$421,000.

MR. BALL: Okay, last year.

MR. DALLEY: Yes.

MR. BALL: Okay, let us go right there then. Well no, the next line, the

Purchased Services from $603,000 to $573,000 to $340,000, line 06. What was

that?

MR. DALLEY: The decline in what you are seeing there in Purchased

Services is primarily that we had one-time funding last year in which we looked

at product development. That was over $300,000 in some product development

initiatives. As a result of that it was just one time, so you see the reduction.

MR. BALL: That is good.

Culture and Heritage, 3.1.01., the only question I have there would be on the

Grants and Subsidies. I am just wondering if there is a list of those available.

MR. DALLEY: Yes.

MR. BALL: Okay, so we can probably get those. I am assuming that when the

information comes that whatever Gerry asks for or whatever I ask for, we would

share it with both are you okay with that, Gerry?

MS ROGERS: (Inaudible).

MR. DALLEY: We will provide it to the Chair, not a problem.

MR. BALL: Thank you.

The Arts and Culture Centres, 3.1.02, just the $3 million there under

Purchased Services, 06, what is that?

MR. DALLEY: In the Purchased Services?

MR. BALL: Yes, it seems to be a consistent line.

MR. DALLEY: That piece there, here is how it works: Whenever there is a

rental or a production that takes place in the Arts and Culture Centres around

the Province, obviously there is an agreement with the production, whatever

revenue is generated ends up going into Purchased Services.

Any payout that we have to do to productions, to any third party production,

we have to do it through Purchased Services; hence, the fact that it was $2.9

million, for example, then it went to $3 million. We saw a slight increase

because we saw an increase in production this year. So, the revenue generated

from that goes into that pot. We have to budget so that we can take care of

those productions. Is that clear?

MR. BALL: Yes, that is fine. It is a good answer. We looked at the

revenue and that would have been my next question. So this is the offsetting

line here, I guess.

MR. DALLEY: Yes.

MR. BALL: Good.

It seems to be there is a surplus there of around $400,000. Where does that

go? When you look at your revenue, if that is offset with the Purchased

Services, and it may not be as clean as that. There might be something else that

is in the revenue line as well.

MR. DALLEY: The revenue comes into general revenue. Any revenue generated

through Arts and Culture Centres comes back to government general revenue. That

is why we have the budget upfront to be able to pay for the productions and so

on, their share. That is how it works.

MR. BALL: Okay.

Line 3.1.03 I know Gerry is going to want to ask that question, so I will

not even go there.

I will go to 3.1.04, Grants and Subsidies. This would be The Rooms. That

seems to be pretty straightforward.

MR. DALLEY: It is.

MR. BALL: There is $200,000 less. How do they feel about that?

MR. DALLEY: We have a great partnership with The Rooms, and I certainly

want to acknowledge here the great work that they do and the tremendous facility

that it is. Again, if you notice throughout, there are little pockets of money

that we have shaved off and they are comfortable that we are going to be able to

deal with that through administrative efficiencies. That is, again, what we have

tried to do through this process without impacting programs.

I think the short answer is they are going to be able to absorb that, but I

am sure, like everybody else, all of us, anytime there is any reduction we all

have a need for more. I am sure they would prefer to have it the other way, but

we are comfortable that they are going to be able to absorb that.

MR. BALL: This is my first year in this meeting, of course. I am just

surprised there is no revenue here. What happens to the revenue at The Rooms?

MR. DALLEY: I would have to defer that question to Judith.

MS HEARN: The Rooms operates as its own corporation. So in their annual

report and in their financial statements you would see any revenues coming in

and how that was spent. Government gives The Rooms a grant, and then they manage

that grant and run their operations.

MR. BALL: Okay. So that is the difference between The Rooms and the Arts

and Culture Centres, for instance.

MS HEARN: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: We own the Arts and Culture Centres, but the corporation runs

The Rooms.

MR. BALL: Okay, good.

That information would be available too, at some point?

MR. DALLEY: Oh, absolutely. They have to file an annual report.

MR. BALL: Yes, okay.

For me, the next one would be 3.1.07. There is a new salary position. This is

the one you spoke about earlier, I would imagine. Is this one position, two

positions?

MR. DALLEY: Two positions.

MR. BALL: Two positions, yes. It seems to be pretty straightforward.

Grants and Subsidies however, am I assuming there that it is moved somewhere

else? That would be 3.1.07.10 Grants and Subsidies, $250,000 spent last year

under the revision and nothing this year.

MR. DALLEY: Again, these were one time. This year, as you can see, from

Special Celebrations there is some funding put there for the planning and

process for the World War I commemorations.

MR. BALL: That grant would have been to whom?

MR. DALLEY: The one-time grants, one went to the International Congress

on Traditional Music. We had funded that congress. As well, we are supporting

the Placentia 350 celebrations this year. They had come forward with a proposal

and we are supporting them through that funding as well.

MR. BALL: The rest of it is fairly straightforward, at least for me,

except for 4.1.02. These grants and subsidies, I do not expect to see a list

here today but it will be okay if we get that list. Could you provide the list

under 4.1.02.10, these being the Grants and Subsidies?

MR. DALLEY: Sure.

MR. BALL: There are some there, of course, under 4.1.01. I guess what we

are asking for is a list of grants and subsidies.

MR. DALLEY: A list of grants and subsidies, sure.

Those grants, as you know, particularly in the recreation area there are

multiple grants in terms of community rec., senior rec., capital grants.

MR. BALL: They are much appreciated, I must say. All the groups that use

them, they just love them.

That is pretty much it for me under this section.

Gerry, I wonder if you have some more questions there.

MS ROGERS: If we could go back to 2.1.02 under Tourism, Strategic Product

Development. Line 06 Purchased Services.

MR. DALLEY: Strategic Product Development?

MS ROGERS: Yes, 2.1.02.06. I am so tempted to say it is a good bingo.

Purchased Services, can you give us a list of those? You said there was a

one-time funding for product development. Can we have some kind of an idea of

what kind of products were developed under that?

MR. DALLEY: There are a number of things there, primarily around season

extension. Things like Roots, Rants and Roars; Trails, Tales and Tunes at the

other end of the season. Part of what we are trying to do to expand our seasons.

We hear from all of our stakeholders and the leadership within the industry. Our

prime tourism season is very strong and solid, and we are finding more and more

we are trying to extend the shoulder seasons. That particular line item there

has enabled us to be able to support that and move out in both directions.

MS ROGERS: Well, it is going to be really interesting now with the

federal government shrinking the shoulder season.

MR. DALLEY: That is one of the challenges. We will monitor that and

continue to work with our Tourism Board and HNL. It is probably the most

significant concern from a tourism perspective, with the recent Parks Canada

announcements.

We have a tremendous tourism product and we do very well. We are very

confident in our industry and the leadership, but that is one of the pieces. The

potential fallout from this is how significant that will be. We have, through

Uncommon Potential and our strategy, tried to focus on expanding our seasons. So

this will be a concern for us and one we obviously have to monitor.

MS ROGERS: Of course, I want to ask: What are your plans? How are you

going to deal with it? How can you mitigate some of the negative consequences

for private operators in the Province? I know this news is so very new, unless

you did know earlier. I am not sure.

MR. DALLEY: Upfront, it would be fair to say it is a little early to

speculate. We only got this a few days ago, like everyone else. We look forward

to having some discussion with the Tourism Board as well and looking closely at

what some of these implications are.

Having said that, I am certainly encouraged as well that none of these sites

are closing down. It is unfortunate we have to see that as a positive, but

nothing is closing down which is positive. We still have a tremendous tourism

product which is extremely positive as well.

It is too early to speculate as to exactly what it is going to mean and how

it is going to unfold. Whether it is going to mean a shortened season, reduced

hours, or what that will mean in various regions as well. A concern, but

something that we are looking forward to having some conversations as well with

the Tourism Board to see what the reaction is.

I will say that while it is disappointing, obviously, and a concern, I

believe our tourism industry has been extremely resilient. We have come a long

ways. We have growth when other parts of the country are in decline when it

comes to tourism. Our numbers have been up and significantly growing. We have

tremendous strengths.

I believe collectively as the industry, the leaders and the private sector as

I referenced before, is an extremely important part of our tourism industry from

private investment and reasons for surveys and these kinds of things. We have a

tremendous volunteer base as we all know in the non-profit groups. These are the

kinds of things that collectively I think we need to focus on the strengths of

our industry and I am sure we will overcome this as well.

MS ROGERS: Okay, thank you.

What kinds of new tourism products are being developed?

MR. DALLEY: Tourism products maybe I will have Mary give you a little

idea of some of the things we are focusing on for this year.

MS TAYLOR-ASH: The department is not so much responsible for developing

products as trying to identify where potential gaps exist. We work with, and the

minister has referenced, the Provincial Tourism Advisory Board. We work with

them, and we are concentrating very much now on identifying what doing a bit

of a review about assets that we have, what we have in the Province, and where

some of the gaps might occur to encourage private sector investment in tourism.

Our job is to be facilitators of that. We try to stay very true as well to

what our core is, and very true to what we are promising out there in our

marketing campaign. We are looking at things that really do reflect our culture,

our heritage, and those kinds of things.

The minister has mentioned as well the season extension. We have been working

very much with our industry on that. We have a very busy tourism season during

the summer months. It is very busy; in fact, in certain places we are full. We

need to extend on both sides. We have also been working very much on that. That

is definitely a priority of working with operators to find ways to get people to

either come earlier in spring or come later in the season in the fall and

winter.

MS ROGERS: What are some of the gaps that you have identified?

MR. DALLEY: That is part of the process with the exit surveys and the

information that will tell us in terms of the visitor experience. As was

referenced, our numbers are up. Our numbers are telling us that we are on the

right path and the right direction. We are obviously very encouraged by it;

industry is very encouraged by it.

We are looking forward to the exit survey results because that will tell us

firsthand of what the experiences were. Whether it is cell service, whether it

is the service from a B & B, or whether it is about our roads, whatever might

be, whether it is a negative or a positive, we will take from that and we will

be encouraged as to which direction we really want to go in and identify those

kinds of gaps.

MS ROGERS: Are there any plans for development of the North Coast of

Labrador and its huge potential there with the ferry system as a tourist

destination?

MR. DALLEY: I do not know about a specific plan. The northern part of

Labrador, like many regions of our Province, is a rich area in culture and

history. I believe, as well, and concur with your point it is an area of

interest to people. As our investments in roads open up Labrador, we are going

to see more and more. We have a Destination Management Organization in Labrador.

The group is on the ground and we will work closely with them and they will work

with us in terms of identifying what people are looking for and what visitors

are looking for in the Labrador region as well.

There is so much potential in Labrador in the tourism aspect. Investment in

roads will make a big difference as well. It is bringing a lot of positive

attention. There are a number of things happening up there already. We will

build on that obviously. We will work with our DMO. I understand as well the

Nunatsiavut Government has some plans for tourism. We will work with them as

well.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Somebody wanted to know: Is there any possibility of pursuing the designation

of the Labrador husky as a recognized, unique heritage species?

MR. DALLEY: That is a good question, Gerry. I do not want to put someone

on the spot here. It is an interesting question, but I do not know the process

actually to get that designation. I do not know if Mark would know that.

MR. M. JONES: Two things: I would suggest that individual write and we

would be able to have officials follow up with them as to the process one would

follow. In general terms, for commemoration, we do have a Commemoration Board

looking at people, looking at places, and looking at events. That is an example

of one avenue we may be able to pursue and indicate to that person to work with

that board. There may be others. Wildlife and designation of species I am sure

is a subset of that. I would encourage that person to write and we can have

someone follow up.

MS ROGERS: Great.

So again in Strategic Product Development, the Burin area: Is there any

specific work being done to look at expanding the Burin tourism potential, that

wonderful jewel down there?

MR. DALLEY: That will refer back to our strategy. I have referenced in a

number of speeches, and I firmly believe it has been extremely positive for our

industry, that we have been able to align our efforts in the tourism industry.

Out of Uncommon Potential: Vision 2020 we have developed a Tourism Board who

works closely then with Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador and our

Destination Management Organizations. We have regional DMOs and there is a new

Eastern DMO as well.

What that has done is ensure that we are focused and we are not going off in

different directions. It has also enabled us to have people out there on the

ground, leaders in the industry, and a place where private investors and our

non-profit groups can connect. Through all of that, we are seeing there is more

co-operation, there is more focus on what the needs are, and there is an avenue

for our non-profit groups and the private groups to be able to work through and

find out specifically what is happening in their regions.

It goes back to our focus: to be able to bring people to the Province. All of

our regions are very unique in their own way. They all have their own stories to

tell. Our DMOs are going to be an important organization to be able to channel

that, to be able to work with the entities within the region, and to be able to

focus on what direction they need to go in.

MS ROGERS: What I understand from that is there is nothing really

specific at this time, but with the different planning groups and organizations

MR. DALLEY: I will get Judith to speak to that in terms of some of the

direction.

MS HEARN: Right now the Tourism Board is looking very seriously at we

have moved from product development to destination development. With respect to

how we are working with the DMOs, you asked about gaps in the market in terms of

product development. We are in the process now of inventorying what our assets

are. Then that will give the DMOs the right list and the right provincial and

regional look at what needs to be done. We are trying not to put the cart before

the horse. We are trying to inventory and then plan with the DMOs.

In the case of Burin, that will be coming. We have started down that road.

The specific projects will be determined by the actual DMOs that are closest in

the region in concert with the overall plan through the Tourism Board. The

department is leading on the inventory asset side so we can inform that

conversation.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Port Union and the Coaker properties, in terms of development again?

MR. DALLEY: Regionally, as you go through, I firmly believe each region

has their strengths. That is obviously one in that region.

Again, that will fit into the model and approach that Judith just referenced

in terms of the DMO, working with the local groups and organizations, and

channelling that then with our Tourism Board and with the overall strategy and

plan. It is an important part of our tourism product, without question. As all

of this unfolds and we look at inventory and where we are trying to get to, that

will be a part of it for sure.

MS ROGERS: Will there be any effort by the Province to get back some of

that property? For instance, the Coaker house, is that privately owned still?

MR. DALLEY: I will defer to Mark.

MR. M. JONES: That is, I will not say complicated but a complex

situation.

MS ROGERS: It is, yes.

MR. M. JONES: Most of the properties are owned by the Coaker Foundation,

but there are some individual, private residences. While we have provided some

advice as to the process one would follow, really it comes down fundamentally to

an issue between private landowners and the foundation, who work with the town.

It is an ongoing situation. The last word I heard, while it was awhile ago,

was that things are somewhat more positive than perhaps they had been in the

past. Beyond that, that is about where that situation is right now.

MS ROGERS: Okay, thanks.

Again, looking at Strategic Product Development: Where are we with

ecotourism, adventure tourism, and geo-tourism? What is happening in that area

in terms of developing those areas or strategizing about them?

MR. DALLEY: Specifically, what is happening on Fogo Island is all about

ecotourism. I believe it is going to be one of the highlights this year in the

Province with respect to tourism and what is happening with the Shorefast

Foundation under Zita Cobb, as you know. We have been very supportive of what is

happening. It is a tremendous development.

Through Shorefast, there has been exposure around the world. The tourism

numbers are up for Fogo Island, the interest in tourism, the organization. The

development on the ground of being able to receive tourists is on the rise as

well. I can certainly see it. Again, I have been very close to that, what is

happening on Fogo Island and Shorefast, and the whole development all the way

through.

I see tremendous things happening. I think it is going to bring a lot of

attention to the whole issue of ecotourism. It will blend in with adventure

tourism, which has been an area in the last few years which has been more

prominent in the Province. We are excited about what is happening on Fogo

Island. As I said, it is going to be one of the highlights this year.

MS ROGERS: Is there any plan to look at encouraging, facilitating,

helping the development of similar kinds of things? Probably not as large, not

everybody has those kinds of deep pockets. We see that increase worldwide of

ecotourism and adventure tourism, in terms of helping to facilitate the

development of that in other parts of the Province.

MR. DALLEY: I think it goes back to our vision; it goes back to our

Tourism Board and our organizations, different proposals and different interests

and the different strengths of different regions in the Province. In this

particular case in the Central region, it has been very positive. It is proposal

driven and in this case it is private interest as well.

We are always open to new ideas and proposals to come forward. For us,

obviously, we are guided by our strategy. We are guided by support from the

Tourism Board and how we work together. Anything that comes forward from another

region that has a potential in terms of our culture and our heritage, our

promotion or preservation and any economic value that is there, obviously, we

are interested and would be interested in developing and taking a look as to

where it fits.

MS ROGERS: Back to Fogo, the ferry is a problem.

MR. DALLEY: It is. It is not a tourism matter in terms of a budget item.

MS ROGERS: It is getting there.

MR. DALLEY: I can speak to you on the Fogo Island ferry and keep going

until suppertime if you like. It is a tremendous problem. It is not something

that we do not recognize or we are not working on.

From a tourism perspective, obviously tourism is important and we have

invested money out there. There is a lot of private investment and things are

going in the right direction. Quite frankly, the negative publicity we get does

not help our tourism industry at all, which is a concern from a tourism

perspective.

MS ROGERS: That is right, yes.

MR. DALLEY: First and foremost, for the people of Change Islands and Fogo

Island, that is their link to the mainland. It is very important to them. It is

important to their daily lives. It is important to the commercial traffic, as

well as important to the economy. We fully recognize that.

We are in a situation here now, a very, very unfortunate situation. There was

some damage to the Winsor , she was out and had some extra work that had

to get done. That is directed by Transport Canada. Added to that, the other

ferry then had an oil leak. She had to come off, unfortunately. The ferry that

was dispatched to go there ran into bad weather. It had to take a little longer

to there. It gets there sometime today.

Again, I think it speaks to the position that we have taken. As Minister

Hedderson has often referenced, we do have a strategy. We are making

investments. The problem is we are trying to catch up. We went through a period

of time where there were very little investments in our ferry fleet. As a

result, it got to a stage where we are really trying to catch up.

We have two ferries build. There are six in design that are due out by

November. The Winsor is another decision that was made over a

year-and-a-half ago. The design work is just about done, should be done within

the next few weeks. All the reason we are investing millions of dollars. It is

something I am very supportive of.

I am very supportive of our rural communities and our island communities. I

am certainly pleased with it and hopeful we will get some of this sorted out in

the short term, and obviously continue with our long-term plans.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

The Air Access Strategic: Taking Flight was released in 2010, with one of the

goals to establish Newfoundland and Labrador internationally as a preferred

destination for tourism and business. What recommendations have been

implemented? Where are we with the recommendations from that?

MR. DALLEY: The thing for us in the tourism industry, our ad campaign.

Our ad campaign is what markets Newfoundland and Labrador from a tourism aspect.

We firmly believe that Newfoundland is a place you want to come and live, and

work, and visit, but ultimately stay.

That is the line we have taken in the Air Access Strategy, which is in

Innovation, Business and Rural Development. They manage the Air Access Strategy,

but it is to work with airlines. We do not subsidize seats, but it is about

helping to market different routes and encouraging new routes to make

Newfoundland and Labrador more accessible.

MS ROGERS: You are encouraging new routes. What do you see are the main

challenges there in terms of air access and tourism?

OFFICIAL: Air Canada.

MR. DALLEY: Fair enough.

back and forth the Province; but obviously, the cost as well. Air travel, as we

all know, is extremely expensive. Having said all of that, we have seen over an

8 per cent growth from last year in our airline traffic. So, it is hard to argue

the numbers when you are seeing such a positive increase, but I guess through

our own marketing and what we are seeing, obviously, it is an area that is

providing growth to our Province and we are encouraged by it. We encourage as

much flight into Newfoundland and Labrador as we can get.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

MR. BALL: Just to go back to that area, when you say 8 per cent growth,

are you talking about air traffic in general or just tourist air traffic?

MR. DALLEY: Air traffic in general.

MR. BALL: Is there a way to actually separate that because

MR. DALLEY: There is, but the definition of a tourist is very broad. If

somebody comes in here for a conference, for a three- or four-day conference,

they are a tourist. Even through they may not be here specifically to tour the

Province, they do partake, so it is very board.

MR. BALL: Yes, I know it is difficult to separate. Obviously, I live in

an airport town and it really the base of our economy, but with that said I do

recognize the fact that Fort McMurray is having a huge impact on the amount of

air travel in our district too.

MR. DALLEY: I think there is way to again, the airlines would provide

some of that to us, but they are the ones who would have the data.

MR. BALL: Yes, exactly.

MR. DALLEY: The other point, if I might, Dwight, back to the exit survey,

that will tell us some of this information as well.

MR. BALL: I agree. Continuing with that, of course, one of the biggest

challenges that we find in the summertime, and I know you guys have done some

work with it in the past, you know what I am going to say, that being around car

rentals. Where are we with that now? I know you did some work on that. Is there

anything that we can expect in that area?

MR. DALLEY: We commissioned a study maybe I can get Mary

MS TAYLOR-ASH: We commissioned a study because we knew we had a big

problem in the Province and industry was very concerned about it. What was

happening was we did not have enough car rentals available, either on the West

Coast with people coming in there and, certainly, coming into St. John's.

The study we did with Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador told us that it

was a problem, but the problem was quite contained within a short period of

time. We had an issue over, I think, probably a six-week period that was really

a bottleneck, so we took some actions. One, we put together a working group

committee and we had at the table car rentals companies. So, now we are

dialoguing with them. One action that we took which is actually alleviating some

of the pressure is that through our Visitor Information Centres that we have at

both Deer Lake Airport, operating year-round, and St. John's Airport, operating

year-round, we use those as the information centre for car rental companies now

to let our people know where there is availability.

Part of what we found in that study, and the study is available on-line on

the government Web site, was that there were some times rentals available, but

there was no way to connect those with the travelling public. That is one thing

we have done that has helped tremendously. That is just an information piece. We

are sharing better information for travellers coming in.

The other specific action we took that is also reaping dividends is we put

more information out in the public domain on our Web site in our traveller's

guide that says: If you are coming to our beautiful Province, we want you to be

able to get around and see it, so please book your car before you come here. Do

not come here and get disappointed because you cannot get a car. Even that kind

of information dissemination has been extremely helpful with lessening the

problem. That is where we are right now, and it is improving.

Also, on the other side, car rental companies are responding to the demand.

They are constantly growing their fleets based on the demand and the information

we are giving to them, saying: Well, the numbers are up in July next year;

therefore, you need to make sure you are prepared for that business demand.

MR. BALL: Just back to the Labrador tourism: Do we have a development

officer in Labrador right now?

OFFICIAL: Yes.

MR. BALL: We do? That is in which area? Would it be in Happy Valley-Goose

Bay?

MR. DALLEY: Lab West.

MR. BALL: Oh, Lab West.

MR. DALLEY: Again, it is through the DMO.

MR. BALL: You mentioned identifying the gaps through the DMO, through the

Tourism Board, and obviously that would follow up into the department.

Once you identify an asset base, how do you address that? One of the things

you mentioned there is about the inventory and the assets around. If a DMO

actually came and said we have identified this particular area where there is an

asset actually missing, how would you address that? Would you do that strictly

through public-private partners or through other departments? Just an idea of

where you would go with that if there was a significant asset you recognize as

being (inaudible)

MR. DALLEY: We have tourism development officers regionally on the ground

for people to go and have early discussions, similar to the IBRD offices that

have people there as well. Generally what happens, particularly in tourism and

people come forward because I get them come to me all the time. We do not have

funding to start tourism operations. That is not our role. Anything to do with a

tourism operation, really it is a small business or depending on the nature of

it. It is redirected to Innovation, Business and Rural Development and tied to

business plans and so on.

Our role is to help facilitate that with our tourism development officer,

work closely with IBRD so that we are focusing on our strategy and what the

market is telling us and what the trends are. We would help provide that kind of

information. As well, through our department we encourage, where we can, and

make our staff available to encourage partnerships in terms of private

investment, or the non-profit sector and trying to encourage that type of

development where we can.

MR. BALL: I know you would be disappointed I am about to wrap up my

questions and I am sure you would be disappointed if I did not ask the question

on snowmobiling. Is it too early to tell where the season has been for the

federation or for the industry in general?

MR. DALLEY: We have not had a meeting recently. I was fortunate enough to

have discussions with them and we monitored very closely this year. They have

had a couple of seasons where it has been a real challenge, weather being a part

of it among other things.

We built a positive relationship with the Snowmobile Federation. We have

monitored what has happened this year; we have supported them as well. The

marketing effort alone I think was very positive. We have listened to their

concerns.

What we have kind of concluded is that we need to take a closer look and we

are going to support them in this at how they do business, what their plans

are, what the future is going to be, whether it is sustainable in the current

position that they are in, whether the model actually works. We get different

feedback from different areas of the Province, as you would know.

We are collectively going to be working together now in the coming months to

get a better handle on what the users are saying. It is a user-pay system; there

are challenges out there, without question. We are going to get out there and

hear from people and see what we can do to work with the Snowmobile Federation

to ensure that they have a fabulous product; it is an important part of our

winter tourism product. There is potential there for growth, without question.

Through all of that we will continue to work with them and see which direction

we need to go in.

MR. BALL: As you know, I live kind of right in the middle of all of this

so I am very familiar with the impact it can have, both in a negative way and in

a positive way. I would absolutely encourage you to do whatever you can do as

quickly as possible because this whole industry is at a tipping point right now.

It could go either way.

The experiences over the past few years have been mixed. If we soon do not

address some of the problems we see here and I am not here to make specific

suggestions on where I might think the problems are today. I would not mind

having a discussion on it. I think we all know that they need to be addressed.

In our own area, for instance, on the West Coast, it is a very complementary

product. Especially in some of the smaller communities, it can have such an

impact on what happens there in the wintertime when there is really not much

else to do. I would certainly impress upon you to do whatever you can so that

next year we can get off to a great start.

MR. DALLEY: I certainly appreciate those comments.

It is about users, but it is about, as you referenced, smaller communities as

well. Economically it is very important, whether it is a hotel, the gas bars, or

whatever might be the case. That is certainly not lost on us or the industry, as

well. Overall, this year was probably better than other years, the last couple

of years anyway. There are some decisions that need to be made and there are

some things to look at.

Our message to the federation, and to their credit they certainly agree and

agree to co-operate in this, is that we really need to hear from the

stakeholders and we really need to hear from the users in the different regions

of the Province, and hear their suggestions and concerns. We look forward to

that. From there, I agree with you, we want to get to the point where we can

continue to have a good product.

MR. BALL: Good.

MS ROGERS: Outfitters are there any policy-planning work being done in

partnership, for instance, with Environment and Conservation to make that a more

sustainable industry? Are there any new options or new species?

MR. DALLEY: We work very closely with the Outfitters Association

throughout the year and recognize it is a tremendous industry with tremendous

potential. They, too, are not without their challenges. We are working with them

very closely. They have some proposals into us. We are doing some evaluation and

analysis on that to try to help the industry.

As well, that is a piece from us. There is a whole side of the outfitting

industry as well that belongs in Environment. The moose management issues and

those kinds of things are done through the Department of Environment. Our side,

from a tourism side, is that obviously the non-resident hunter is what drives

the outfitting industry and, of course, that is where our role comes in.

We are working closely with them and we have a great rapport with them. We

have some proposals in from them that we are looking at and we are optimistic

that we are going to be able to help them out and see that industry grow.

MS ROGERS: What do you see as some of the major challenges and what is

the wish list of the outfitter industry?

MR. DALLEY: There are a number of things. I think one is sustainability,

not only sustainability of the moose management piece, again it is out of

Environment, but that is a key issue. That is the resource that they need to be

able to offer the product. That is a critical piece for them and how that is

managed and the different decisions that are made around that, and I know they

have has some good conversations with Minister French, as well. We both met with

them actually, we want to hear what they are saying, what they are recommending

to us.

That is one area, but the sustainability of their organization itself is

important. They play a very important role so they are challenged there. Of

course, funding becomes a challenge for them, so that is one of the areas again

that they are talking with us to see if there are ways or means in which

something can be done to help support the association.

The other areas, as well, I guess is the whole utilization. The outfitting

industry has been around a long time in this Province and within the industry

itself there are small players and big players and that creates different

challenges and different plans in different areas, so it relatively complex, but

the reality is we do have a number of outfitters out there that want more

licences. They believe they can sell more; they believe they can drive the

industry. So how we get around that, the policy and the directions that we can

do to ensure that we protect the industry and we protect all players in the

industry, are some of the things that we are engaged in talking back and forth

with.

MS ROGERS: As the Minister of Tourism, what would you like to see happen

there for them?

MR. DALLEY: What would I like to see?

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: I would like to see the outfitting industry become stronger.

It is an important part of our tourism product, but it is a very delicate

industry. There are other facts that impact your industry, like the economy and

the Canadian dollar; all of these kinds of things have a strong bearing on the

industry.

I would like to see it get to the point where outfitters that want to grow

this industry and do more, that we can enable them to do that. Not just us

because it is not strictly up to us, but certainly work with the Outfitters

Association to develop the right policies that can meet those challenges. I

believe, again, in listening to the outfitting industry, they believe they have

still great potential and I am excited about that. I want to move forward with

those kinds of things.

MS ROGERS: Catch and release recreational fishery, how is that working

for us in tourism, then with the fishery, with environment?

MR. DALLEY: The outfitting industry represents that side as well. To be

honest, we have not had a lot of conversations about the angling side. No doubt,

there are some challenges there but right now I think they are focusing on the

broader piece of the outfitting. I have not had discussions on the angling side.

MS ROGERS: Muskrat Falls and water rights agreements, how will it affect

the recreational tourist industry? Will that at all, fishing, boating, or

hiking?

MR. DALLEY: There is no discussion that we have had at this point.

Muskrat Falls is a significant development. Anytime we see these kinds of

developments, it is weighed against some other things as well. The Province has

been pursuing Muskrat Falls and all the issues surrounding Muskrat Falls. I am

sure that is a part of it that will be captured as well. At this point, we have

not had any (inaudible).

MS ROGERS: Has tourism kind of looked at it, looked at Muskrat Falls with

that lens in terms of any effects?

MR. DALLEY: Something of that magnitude. Typically throughout, depending

on the nature of the project and what is happening, there are interdepartmental

committees where comments can be made and any concerns raised and issues and so

on. That would be the general process, but at this point we have not raised any

significant concerns at all.

MS ROGERS: I have just one more question before we move on to culture.

The UNESCO Heritage sites, is there any work being done to try and further the

number of UNESCO sites we might have? Like, for instance, Red Bay or Mistaken

Point? Is the Province ?

MR. DALLEY: There are two of those areas actually. The process to become

a UNESCO World Heritage site is very lengthy.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: It takes a number of years. It is a tremendous undertaking

but we are supportive and will be to do what we can, both in the Red Bay area

and the Mistaken Point. To go through to get that particular designation, there

are environmental issues as well. There are all kinds of things related to that.

So, it is ongoing. We are encouraged by it.

MS ROGERS: There is a concerted effort, though, to

MR. DALLEY: Yes, very much so, and environment would be part of that as

well.

CHAIR: Excuse me, Ms Rogers, if I could suggest that we take a ten minute

break; if anybody wants to stretch their legs or go to the washroom. I can see a

few antsy people there.

OFFICIAL: Mr. Chair, maybe we should check to see how much longer we

would need.

CHAIR: Yes, Ms Rogers.

MS ROGERS: I have some questions and line items on Culture and Heritage.

OFFICIAL: Okay, so we will need

CHAIR: Yes, we will need a fair bit of time.

Okay. A quick ten; back at 10:40, if everybody could come back on time,

please.

MS ROGERS: Perfect, thank you.

Recess

CHAIR: I want to reconvene, if I could, and I will go to Ms Rogers. You

can continue with your questioning.

MS ROGERS: I have just one more question before we move off into Culture

and Heritage. I cannot wait to get there.

St. Anthony as a cruise ship destination: With all of those wonderful things

happening up there with Iceberg Alley and L'Anse aux Meadows, is there any plan

to look at encouraging, fostering, and exploring that? I know there are some

structural infrastructure problems there that are not insurmountable in terms of

boats docking and whatnot.

MR. DALLEY: I will refer to Mary for that.

MS TAYLOR-ASH: We work with the Cruise Association of Newfoundland and

Labrador. That is how we engage in the cruise market; we assist them with some

marketing activities. When it comes to infrastructure and the development of the

product, they are the ones who are very much engaged on the ground with that.

In terms of growing cruise in this Province, of course we are quite

interested and always looking at opportunities there. I would not be able to

comment specifically on the infrastructure in the St. Anthony area.

MS ROGERS: (Inaudible).

MS TAYLOR-ASH: The source for that information would be more of the

Cruise Association.

MS ROGERS: As a Province in doing your planning and policy, and strategic

development, as the department facilitating, exploring and encouraging certain

types of activities in different areas, is

MR. DALLEY: Back to the point of our Tourism Board and the hospitality

industry itself and particularly the regional DMOs, that is the alignment that

we have been able to do to carry forward on all kinds of things as I referenced,

in terms of different regions and their strengths, and to be able to be

connected at that level. Ultimately again, though, in terms of development,

whether it is private or non-profit groups and involvement with Innovation,

Business and Rural Development and through our structures as well, if there were

proposals or interest, that is how that would evolve.

MS ROGERS: I am just wondering is there any interest or is that on

anybody's radar at all in terms of looking at and encouraging the

MR. DALLEY: Specifically the cruise industry, as Mary referenced it, it

is the cruise industry that drives the industry, and we are there to support

them in any way with marketing. That is primarily what we do; we do not have the

infrastructure or funding.

MS ROGERS: Yes, I know that.

MR. DALLEY: I have to go back to our goal in working with the leaders in

the industry is to drive our tourism numbers. We want to get them up, we want to

build a very unique, authentic product here in Newfoundland and Labrador, and if

there are proposals and interest, that can help shape that.

Ultimately, again the question is sustainability and these kinds of issues

are creeping into more and more every day in any new developments that we are

looking at, or supporting, or the direction we need to go in has to be

sustainable when you factor all that in.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: Anything that is going to drive our tourism numbers up, we

are interested.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Cultural and Heritage but just before we leave that again the Tourism one,

in 2.1.02, Dwight, had you asked for 06, a list of the Purchased Services? If

not, could we have that?

MR. DALLEY: Purchased Services, the product development piece and those

kinds of things?

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: I am sure we can.

MS ROGERS: Okay, that would be great.

Subhead 3.1.01. Culture and Heritage Dwight has already asked for the list

of the grants and subsidies.

MR. DALLEY: Yes.

MS ROGERS: In Purchased Services, we see a dip there from the budget to

the revised, and then a dip again from previous years' budgets to this year's

budget. Can you talk a little bit about what kind of purchased services were

there?

MR. DALLEY: The numbers in Purchased Services, we budgeted $348,800 and

it went down to $166,400. What you will see is there are lots of times within

different sectors that we are shifting money around because different priorities

or different things come up. Particularly in Purchased Services, we were able to

see some cost savings, reallocations of different things, and be able to use the

money elsewhere.

In particular in Purchased Services, things like support for the Provincial

Historic Sites, the Arts and Letters Competitions, or other things we need in

terms of support for general operations is generally what comes out of the

Purchased Services section. That will vary from year to year.

MS ROGERS: When you say support for the historic sites, what does that

mean?

MR. DALLEY: Well, we have Provincial Historic Sites and there are

different things we may need to do. We may need to spend some funding to help

the managers in the sites, do something with the buildings themselves, for the

operations, and these kinds of things.

MS ROGERS: Would any of that include money for non-profit groups, for

historic groups?

MR. DALLEY: Not in that line item, no.

MS ROGERS: Not in that? Okay.

The Strategic Cultural Plan that was launched in 2006 has expired, I assume?

Is it? Is there a new plan that is being planned?

MR. DALLEY: Mark has a little more of the corporate history when it comes

to the cultural plan. So, Mark, if you would.

MR. M. JONES: You are correct, Ms Rogers. The 2006 cultural plan was

launched in 2006; however, there is no expiration date on that plan. It

continues to guide us. Its nine foundational key directions are still relevant

and we work on them continuously with our sector partners. That would include

the Arts Council, the Heritage Foundation, and The Rooms, all-in, and basically

we continuously work to strive towards those goals. They are reflected in our

strategic plan. Also reflected in our strategic plan are action plans of the

Arts Council, The Rooms, the Commemoration Board, and the Heritage Foundation.

So, we continue the work, we continue the investments and sometimes that

notion, I think, may come from the fact that the initial investment plan that

came with the cultural plan was announced at the same time, but that investment

continued and continues.

MS ROGERS: So you see that strategic plan as an overriding plan that will

continue on?

MR. M. JONES: Correct.

MS ROGERS: Have you had any audit to look at the success of the plan or

the implementation of the plan, how it is going?

MR. M. JONES: Yes we have, but qualitatively inside the department. We

meet regularly, twice annually actually, with both the arts sector and the

heritage sector and we collect our data. We actually have, very deliberately in

the last eight or nine months, struck a working group on collecting some

cultural statistics so that we can better inform as we move forward. The most

immediate plans are to now that we are about five years in and those

investments have been made, we are collecting that data and compiling a plan to

formally evaluate, on a larger scale, the cultural plan as launched.

MS ROGERS: Can we have access to some of the reporting of that?

MR. M. JONES: Information basically comes out in our strategic plan and

in our annual reports every year. We can certainly collate that, yes.

MS ROGERS: Okay, thank you.

What was the amount for the CEDP last year and what is budgeted this year?

MR. DALLEY: Around $1.53 million.

MS ROGERS: Sorry?

MR. DALLEY: Totally, the CEDP was over $2.9 million.

MS ROGERS: That was last year and for this year, the budget

MR. DALLEY: It is very similar, a slight decrease, but very similar.

MS ROGERS: The other information that I would like about that and I do

not know if you can give it now, maybe you will have to get back to me is how

many applied through that program? What was the level of application? How much

was given out? How much was refused? Could we have an idea of that?

MR. DALLEY: We could provide some of that information for you. As you

know, it is application driven.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: Various components of that. We try to do what we can to

support as many groups. As we know, small amounts of money mean so much to them.

We can provide you with as much information as possible, sure.

MS ROGERS: Okay, that would be great.

The cuts to CBC and the closure of Studio F will have a real negative effect

on the local music industry. It is a horrible loss to the music industry, to the

recording industry. I am wondering if the Province has any plan to somehow help

or offset that great loss. It is going to have such a negative impact on the

music industry.

MR. DALLEY: I certainly concur with you that the federal cuts and again

it is a little early to speculate as to how deep or what impact. The music side

and some of the programs as was referenced at the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts

Council awards show, we are concerned about that.

At this point we are not in a position to replace the federal funding portion

of that. We will lobby I have some meetings coming up as well and I am looking

forward to being able to share with my counterparts the concerns and the impact.

Having said that, it is still early and we are looking forward to hearing from

industry as well.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

The seal memorial and

interpretation centre in Elliston, they said for every

$2 raised the Province will match $1. If they have raised $1.6 million is it

where they are at now where will the $800,000 from the Province come from?

MR. DALLEY: That piece is with Municipal Affairs.

MS ROGERS: Municipal Affairs? Not culture and tourism even though it is a

heritage site?

MR. DALLEY: No, obviously we are supportive

MS ROGERS: Sorry?

MR. DALLEY: Obviously we are supportive of that kind of an initiative,

but it is through Municipal Affairs.

MS ROGERS: Municipal Affairs.

MR. BALL: That is Cabot 500, right?

MR. DALLEY: Yes.

MS ROGERS: Okay. Thank you.

The Provincial Historic Sites, how are they doing? What are some of the

stars? Which ones have the greatest challenges? What is the state of the art of

our

MR. DALLEY: Mark, I will let you get this.

MR. M. JONES: We realized quite a significant increase in activity and

rejuvenation, if you will, with our Provincial Historic Sites. Very deliberately

sought after, captured in the cultural plan. Over the past, three, four years in

particular, we have undertaken innovative approaches on our programming and our

interpretation. We have enhanced, changed, and made more modern most, if not all

of the interpretive plans and the stories that are told at our sites.

For example, the Commissariat House here in St. John's had launched just last

summer its new interpretative plan and the story that it tells there. Bonavista,

Trinity, the network across the Province, through our staffing, through our

efforts, have all had that rejuvenation. Visitation is up, our presence is up,

and we are generally very pleased with how it is also being aligned and plugged

into our efforts on the tourism side of the department. That has been very

deliberate in a lot of the conversations and collaboration inside of our own

department.

MS ROGERS: So, Mark, how are they run and how are they staffed?

MR. M. JONES: They are staffed by provincial employees some permanent,

some seasonal. We have a manager position, just three years that was one of

the initiatives that government undertook, actually, was the permanent hiring of

a provincial historic site manager, working with our director of heritage, and

that has helped us realize most of the gains. We have a lot of incumbent staff,

season staff, and they are the primary movers of what happens at our Provincial

Historic Sites.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

So then, community groups or heritage groups, for instance, like the Rose

Blanche lighthouse, or the museum up in Conche, those are not specifically

provincial heritage sites, but very much, I would think, target destinations for

tourism and very valuable in the tourism scenario. There seems to be a problem

with funding for the groups that are running these very valuable, I think,

sites. Some of the problems that seem to be are some that have traditionally

relied on JCP, either not getting the JCPs or the JCPs coming too late for the

tourist industry. The other thing is the SWASP announcements too late.

I have worked in the tourist industry; I owned a fantastic inn in Carbonear,

and also worked with some of the drama groups that tried to get events happening

in Carbonear. Pete Soucy was out there with the Sheila NaGeira festival. It had

to fold because the announcement of funding is too late. We are seeing that all

over the Province.

I am wondering if the Department of Tourism has done any work around that

area, encouraging the shifting of deadlines and announcements. We know what

happens is that if a drama festival is going to take off, they need to know

before June whether or not they can offer people jobs and the preparation time

that involves. I am wondering if the Department of Tourism will play a role

there with those who administer SWASP and JCP.

It is a very critical problem because what is happening is some of the groups

are saying to us they are not going to be able to fulfill their mandates this

summer or they will not be able to do it the way they want to do it.

Particularly for those who are doing interpretive services, drama, or festivals

to not know soon enough. It is a major issue in tourism, I would think.

MR. DALLEY: Specific to JCPs, as you know, it is administered by Advanced

Education and Skills. In terms of timing, I know the JCPs have been announced,

so the timing issue is that it is good timing to be able to get out. What

happened last year is there were some delays, but the model was revamped a

little bit in terms of intake, assessment, and so on. Last year created a bit

more of an issue, but I am certainly pleased the JCPs are announced early this

year. I am sure the work is continuing with SWASP.

We are certainly well aware of all of the issues around operations and

management of so many of our tourism venues around this Province. Every one of

us in all of our communities has very valuable operations occurring,

particularly the non-profit sector, as well as the private area. You are right:

Timely announcements are very important. People need to plan and get ready.

I will say one of the challenges we are all faced with is there is more and

more demand for funding. We understand that operational costs are increasing,

salaries are increasing, utility bills are increasing, and all kinds of things.

A lot of these venues are in older buildings that require restoration and

maintenance, but the reality is we just cannot do everything. That is why we try

to spread it out as much as we can. Small amounts of money become very, very

important to these operators through our grants. Likewise, any opportunity

through government funding for staffing becomes important as well and we

recognize that.

We are faced with those challenges. So, timely to get it out and I certainly

appreciate your comments, the importance of the JCP and the SWASP as well.

MS ROGERS: Yes, I think that they really are. It is really hard on

people's personal lives, in particular people who work in this industry who work

for very, very little money in the non-profit sector to provide these kinds of

services. It is very difficult.

MR. DALLEY: That is a part of it. I think for me as well, though, we have

so many volunteers who put so much time into their communities and helping to

protect and promote the local heritage. It is important to their community. It

is not easy, there is volunteer burnout, there are challenges to get more

volunteers, and all of these kinds of things I believe play a role in that as

well.

The other side in terms of it, if I could make a brief comment, our

government over the number of years has really increased the minimum wage and

brought it to where it is today. It has been a great help, no question. I

remember my days working in the museums and working in the lighthouse, tour

guides and all that stuff, there was very little pay then. At least it is a

little more now, but point well taken.

MS ROGERS: Yes, and I know like Rose Blanche, the lighthouse did not get

their JCP; the museum up in Conche did not get their JCP. I do not know what

that is going to mean for this summer. Those are important attractions.

MR. DALLEY: No question and those are two; I could list many as we know.

MS ROGERS: There are more.

MR. DALLEY: As I said we all have them. The department is aware of it and

working through those kinds of issues. The challenge is there is only so much

funding, and how do we direct that and make the best use of it. That is the

(inaudible).

MS ROGERS: Speaking of funding, the Museum Association of Newfoundland

and Labrador, they lost what? There was a cut of $1.5 million federal funds

which leveraged other monies for them. That was the money that they used to

provide training to community groups about archiving photos, sound recordings,

preservation of our stories. Is there any plan to somehow help with that?

MR. DALLEY: We help all of those associations where we can. We are not in

a position to be replacing the federal funding that is cut at this time.

MS ROGERS: I understand that.

MR. DALLEY: We are quite concerned about that and we will continue to

work with them to see if and what we can do to support them, but we are not in a

position to replace the federal funding.

MS ROGERS: It is a big loss.

MR. DALLEY: Huge.

MS ROGERS: Not just the money, but our stories and what that means to our

cultural heritage.

Visitor Information Centres on the Northern Peninsula, there is just the

one at Deer Lake and there is nothing beyond Deer Lake, is there?

MR. DALLEY: Provincially, it would be ICs.

MS ROGERS: We have two?

MR. DALLEY: We have two in Deer Lake. There is one on the main highway in

Deer Lake and there is one at the airport in Deer Lake.

MS ROGERS: Nothing further up the Northern Peninsula?

MR. DALLEY: Not provincially, no.

MS ROGERS: Is there any plan for addressing that, as we see more tourism

up in that area?

MR. DALLEY: The issue with the ICs we are looking at a review of the

ICs, our provincial VICs and a number of things, I guess, in terms of

operations. As well as visitations, there are a number of things again, go

back to the on-line comments and the issue of an app and so on. What we are

finding are more and more people are finding their own way trip planning and

all kinds of things that are happening.

So that is factoring into the number of visitations, but with that said, they

still play a very valuable role and staff do a great job there. We will add

summer students there as well and it is an important role that they play, but we

are doing a review in terms of how this is going to look in the future.

MS ROGERS: Are there any plans for changes in hours of operation?

MR. DALLEY: No plans at this point.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Staff training, where does that budget come out of for staff training for

Visitor Information Centres?

MR. DALLEY: Tourism Product Development.

MS ROGERS: Okay. Great, thank you.

Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council, 3.1.03, we know that we are among the

lowest in the country. I know that there was a significant increase and now we

have a problem of success, which is a good problem to have, I think. The

applications have doubled and I think when we look at the arts and culture

programming at MUN, at Grenfell and at Stephenville, we are making it more

possible for our youth and our people to see that culture and arts is important.

So, they come out of school and they want to get at it and do their work.

We see a definite increase in the application process, but it is not enough.

We did really well when we had the increase, but now we are pretty close to the

bottom again in terms of the per capita funding for arts and for the

Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council in the country. Now less than a third of

applications can be funded.

I have sat on those juries over the years. It is really tough because we are

not turning down proposals that are half-baked or not very interesting. We are

turning proposals from even very senior, experienced artists. We know that

artists are among the lowest paid in the country and in our Province in terms of

their earning capacity.

I am wondering if there is any plan to expand that. The Arts Council is one

of the only places for funding for new ideas and for the development of ideas.

Almost any major production or tourist or cultural event that we have in the

Province started with a small grant from the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts

Council. Without it, we will have nothing.

I know what the budget is this year. I know it seems the cut is insignificant

in some ways, but it sends a message and we have been over that. Going forward,

is there any plan to

MR. DALLEY: If I could comment, Gerry. I certainly appreciate your

passion. I know it is a strong background of yours and I respect that as well.

A few points that you touched on we need to recognize. In terms of respect

and appreciation for the arts and the value of the arts in our Province, I do

not think that is lost on anyone. Certainly not us and certainly not the people

we sit around with and discuss our budget issues with and so on.

The key point here is that we are having tremendous success with the arts.

Since our strategy, I particularly point back to that, and with the great

leadership from the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council, we have come a long

ways. By and large, success is the product of what we have been able to do as a

government.

When a number of years ago federal funding got cut, we were the ones who

helped replace some of the federal funding in the Culture and Heritage arts

side. When we look at globally what we are doing in the arts, we have been able

to help fuel the success, and that is not to take away from the arts community

at all.

You referenced Grenfell, and I know there are Grenfell graduates working

throughout the industry. It is tremendous. It is our own students graduating in

the Province, and we want that to continue. I think the point you are making

about the success, it is a good story. It does put us in a place, and we

recognize, with that success comes expectation and more demand.

I recently met with the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council. I had a great

conversation with Tom and all of his crew. I have to say, I was really excited

to be able to sit there and listen to them talk about what is happening around

this Province in the arts. It is unbelievable.

We all concur that the arts are now in a place, perhaps better than ever

before, where the people of the Province have more respect and appreciation. I

say all of that to preface the fact that we understand that. We went through a

budget exercise where we tried to minimize this impact. We are having the same

number of grants out there available for people. The number of grants will not

change. In talking with the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council the funding

will not change.

We fully recognize that when we get in a position we need to do more. Right

now, we are not in that position. If I were to go down through what we are doing

for the arts in this Province in terms of Arts and Culture Centres, the CEDP for

the arts, the Art Procurement Program, the Arts and Letters Competition, the

Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council, Music NL, the whole film industry. If I

go down through all that, it is a priority for us and an importance for us, but

we just hit this spot right now.

I believe, whether it is dance or theatre, the visual arts, music, literary

work, all of these aspects of the arts have probably never been stronger, more

vibrant and more exciting than it is right now and have the respect and

appreciation of the Province, and becoming more and more important I think in

the whole aspect of recruitment. When I look at all of that, we understand. We

have tried to minimize through this process and not lose the success that we

have had.

We will work closely with the arts community and when we are in a position, I

can assure you, I will be the first one to advocate that we be able to do more.

MS ROGERS: I think we have to continue to talk about not what we are

doing for the arts but the investment in the arts, and that it is an investment.

Because we see a very tangible, real return in any investment dollars in the

arts. It is a bit scary to think that we are in a time of prosperity, yet we are

cutting to the arts.

The Rooms: great works, great exhibits, a wonderful treasure, great

programming, bringing in children, fantastic. Can you tell me what the numbers

are like? Have we been seeing an increase in visitors to The Rooms? There has

been a decrease in funding.

CHAIR: Say your name first, please.

MS HEARN: Judith Hearn.

I would be happy to provide that information to you. I do not have it in

front of me today, but certainly I sit on the board of The Rooms. It is a very

exciting time. There is lots of good news, and everything is moving forward in

the right direction, so I would be pleased to provide some information.

MS ROGERS: Is there any specific work I see we have a decrease of

$216,000 there at 3.1.04, number 10 the Grants and Subsidies to The Rooms.

MR. DALLEY: It is something that will be absorbed through operations;

but, having said that, as Judith referenced, there are a lot of exiting projects

that are going on and planned and will continue. It will not be impeded by this

at all.

MS ROGERS: This is just simply one of those we have to cut?

MR. DALLEY: It is one of those again, my opening comments. We have

tried to do, where we can, to minimize the impact and not have, as a result of

budget exercise, a few take the brunt for everybody. We have tried to share it

out, recognizing our mandate and some things we want to accomplish this year,

but share in that fiscal management piece. We felt we were able to do this, but

at the same time continue on with the very exciting plans at The Rooms.

MS ROGERS: Okay, thank you.

Line 3.1.06 Historic Sites Development; the Newfoundland Film Development

Corporation and people are doing great work and film is but the Historic Sites

Development, 3.1.06. Just a quick question, what is on the horizon there? Are

there any particular plans?

I see it is for the acquisition of land and the redevelopment of the

Province's historic sites. Is there anything particular in the works there?

MR. DALLEY: Again, we are continuously looking at upgrading and

reinvesting, where we can, in our Provincial Historic Sites. Back to the other

issues of maintenance, restoration, sustainability, and so on, while a lot of

our non-profit groups are faced with that, we as a government are faced with

that as well with our own sites. We have channelled again, with the marketing

piece and some of the programming, we have focused on that and we want to

continue to build on that so that we get our numbers up in the visitations and,

obviously, continue to promote that important part of our Province.

MS ROGERS: So no particular planned items under that?

MR. DALLEY: No.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Subhead 3.1.07, Special Celebrations and Events. I know you have mentioned

the World War I anniversary coming up. Is there anything else to look forward

to?

MR. DALLEY: I think we do; I think it is going to be very exciting for

the Province

MS ROGERS: When will that be?

MR. DALLEY: I am not sure exciting would be the right word because it is

more of a commemoration and a tribute or respect to our involvement and history

in the wars. We have a fabulous history. We are coming upon the 100 anniversary

of Beaumont Hamel, a period of time in our history where Newfoundlanders, to

coin the phrase, answered the call, and we believe there is a great story that

needs to be told and retold and celebrated in some respects.

So we are looking at a major piece within government and, as I said, we will

unfold the details in a post-Budget announcement, but there is great work, there

are great people involved and it something we are looking at Province-wide.

MS ROGERS: That is sort of the main event, special event that the

Province is focusing on now. Is there anything coming that we have

MR. DALLEY: That is the specific focus from a provincial focus from our

department for sure.

MS ROGERS: Okay, great. Thank you.

Dwight, I do not know if you have anything, I have a few questions on

Recreation and Sport.

MR. BALL: You can continue if you have a couple more questions left

before (inaudible).

MS ROGERS: Okay.

The Newfoundland and Labrador Film Development Corporation, 3.1.08. For

Total: Culture and Heritage the decrease is $427,000, is that just an overall

cut, basically, where you have to find the savings.

MR. DALLEY: That is on the bottom line item? Yes.

MS ROGERS: Okay. Thank you very much for all of this.

Recreation and Sport, 4.1.01.01, Salaries, we see an increase of $109,000 in

the revised.

MR. DALLEY: The increase reflects the retirement of an employee and the

payout of severance. There are other things built in there in terms of annual

leave, overtime, and these kinds of things. It is not any specific impact in

hiring or anything like that.

MS ROGERS: Okay, thank you.

In 4.1.02, Community Sports Facilities, Grants and Subsidies, can we have a

list of that?

Dwight, did you already ask for that? Okay, thank you very much.

MR. DALLEY: That particular item involved rink funding. It was a

three-year federal funding. Last year was the last year for that rink funding;

hence, the change in the figures in terms of our grants and subsidies.

MS ROGERS: The plastic rink in Appleton is that a provincial rink or is

that municipal?

MR. DALLEY: Municipal.

MS ROGERS: I play hockey. I have to try it out. I cannot wait.

How much is being allocated for recreation grants for promoting healthy

lifestyles? I know there was a new initiative partnering with one or two

schools.

MR. DALLEY: Twenty-five schools, an afterschool initiative.

MS ROGERS: That is great.

MR. DALLEY: Again, trying to address those challenges and part of the

focus we have in trying to engage more youth in physical activity. So far there

has been positive feedback.

There is $800,000 in that particular program and it is over two years.

MS ROGERS: So was it $400,000 last year and $400,000 this year?

MR. DALLEY: Yes.

MS ROGERS: Have we had a full year?

MR. DALLEY: No.

MS ROGERS: It has really just started, then.

MR. DALLEY: This is the first year and it rolled out just after

Christmas.

MS ROGERS: How is it going?

MR. DALLEY: The early feedback has been very positive. There are a couple

of challenges we have heard from schools. As you know, I have been involved in

the rural schools and in transportation, these kinds of issues, to provide kids

the opportunity to have access. This funding has enabled our students to have

that opportunity. So far the feedback has been really positive.

MS ROGERS: Do we have any particular healthy lifestyle and recreation

programs for seniors? There is a Seniors' Secretariat, but is the department

doing anything specifically to look at the recreational needs of seniors?

MR. DALLEY: We have a Seniors Community Recreation Grant application

process in which we will make some funding. We have some funding available and

it is by application process.

MS ROGERS: Right.

MR. DALLEY: There are significant programs in Health and Community

Services as well in terms of health and wellness of seniors. We do have

specifically funding to help and support seniors' community recreation

activities.

MS ROGERS: What is the budget for that?

MR. DALLEY: It is $200,000.

MS ROGERS: Okay, $200,000.

The 2012 Newfoundland Summer Games, now there was an investment of $200,000.

Was that given last year or is that coming this year, or is it both? There was

$200,000 for operating costs and $150,000 for travel costs.

MR. DALLEY: Yes, see the games, there is a preparation piece. That is the

total that we will put in support of the games.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: The $150,000 would be to support coaches, teams travelling

and that aspect of it to ensure that people can actually get to the games. The

$200,000 will go directly to the host committees in terms of preparations and

their work.

MS ROGERS: That is money that is coming only this fiscal year, is it?

MR. DALLEY: They have it from the last fiscal year.

MS ROGERS: They have it. Is there any money planned for them for this

year?

MR. DALLEY: For the games?

MS ROGERS: Yes, for the Newfoundland Summer Games.

MR. DALLEY: No, the money would have been given to them up front in plans

and preparations. Other than that, whether they come forward looking for any of

their regular capital grants and these kinds of things, they would have that

opportunity.

MS ROGERS: There is no more money for it in this fiscal year?

MR. DALLEY: No.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Marble Mountain are there any plans to somehow extend the tourist season at

Marble Mountain? I know we cannot expand the snow, but we have a great big,

gorgeous facility there. Is there anything planned?

MR. DALLEY: Marble Mountain operates as a Crown corporation and is

somewhat arm's-length as well and we help fund, obviously. They have operated

for 100 days this year, more than they have done for a while, probably since

2008. That is their key focus on their winter tourism.

There has been some new leadership over there; they have refocused to try to

expand the work that they are doing. I understand that their summer activity is

becoming very busy; they have something like twenty weddings booked for this

summer. There is a business in there as well Marble Zip Tours, which is

operating right on-site. They are having great success and growing. They have

really tried to expand their offering outside of their core winter tourism

product. It is a part of trying to become a multi-seasonal facility. They are

finding more and more summer activities increasing.

MS ROGERS: Thank you.

There were a number of announcements in the spring and summer in the lead up

to the election about playgrounds and that there were going to be a number of

playgrounds completed. Do you have any update as to

MR. DALLEY: We do not specifically have funding for playgrounds or

earmarked for playgrounds. We have through our capital programs, whether it is

the minor capital grants or the major capital grants which people can apply for

from their districts. Again, it is application driven. That funding can be used

where we would support the development of playgrounds and see it as important,

but we do not have specific playground funding.

A lot of the announcements that you may have been hearing is a part of what

they call Let Them Be Kids, national program.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: It is a national program that is providing funding, matching

funding through an application process. Successful communities are able to raise

money and Let Them Be Kids will match the funding.

MS ROGERS: There is a provincial part of that then, is there?

MR. DALLEY: No. Let Them Be Kids is totally separate of anything that we

do.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

MR. DALLEY: What I have found is that when these communities are

successful with their applications with Let Them Be Kids, which is a national

program, they are coming to us looking for their capital grants because they can

use that money then to get matching money from Let Them Be Kids. Generally we

are finding where we can, of course, especially where we have an opportunity

for matching funding, that we will certainly support them.

MS ROGERS: Has there been much leverage on that program?

MR. DALLEY: All of our funding for our capital programs, our grants,

everything goes out the door, no question.

MS ROGERS: Great.

Can we have a list of the successful applicants of the projects?

MR. DALLEY: We can do that, sure.

MS ROGERS: That would be great.

Has the department made a multi-year commitment to fund recreation

facilities? Are there any recreation facilities on the horizon anywhere?

MR. DALLEY: We do not fund recreation facilities in terms of operations.

We have the Sports Centre, which we own and which we are responsible for.

MS ROGERS: There is one of those, right?

MR. DALLEY: Yes, it is the provincial Sports Centre here in St. John's.

Your typical recreational facilities, like stadiums and so on, we do not provide

funding to those operations at all.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

With the population growth in the Northeast Avalon, we see a lot of young

families and seniors looking in that whole area of the Northeast Avalon. Has

there been any work looking at what are the recreational needs of people in

those areas? What is happening? We are seeing a real push in population there

and everybody

MR. DALLEY: Absolutely. What I will say, the issue of recreational

infrastructure is a municipal issue.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: It falls within the municipalities through municipal capital

funding. The RInC funding that I referenced earlier was through your federal

funding from Building Canada, in which the Province would have a share of that

as well. That was channelled through municipalities coming forward to Municipal

Affairs with their Municipal Capital Works programs.

MS ROGERS: What kind of role then would the Province have in looking at

the recreation or lifestyle needs through, particularly in your department

because it is recreation and sport? What would your mandate be then?

MR. DALLEY: Through active, healthy living, our strategy, and helping

encourage more sport and recreation participation involvement. We work both with

our federal counterparts on different agreements. I know we work with our

provincial sport organizations. There are forty provincial sport organizations.

We help fund some of them all of them actually, some funding.

They are the governing bodies that would promote their sport and develop

their sport. We will support them through we have three, basically,

organizations: School Sports Newfoundland and Labrador, Sport Newfoundland and

Labrador, and Recreation Newfoundland and Labrador.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: These are the overarching bodies that govern their sports.

Within that there are provincial sport organizations. We will channel money

through them and they will do the promotion and support; added to that, of

course, built into all of our grants and subsidies which we get out the door to

support communities. Then there are always some special events sometimes, where

if there is a way for us to get involved and support we do.

One of the big things that happened last year was this development of

Sportfest. That is happening next week. It is driven by Sport Newfoundland and

Labrador. It is bringing all the provincial sport organizations together, as

many as can participate, and help promote their sport at the grassroots level

and get kids involved, get them engaged, encourage parents to work with them as

well.

They had tremendous success last year. It is coming up next week. We have

also had discussions with them about how we take that across the Province. We do

have a population explosion in this area, and you are right in terms of the

recreational needs.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: We still know there are recreational needs right across the

Province. We are looking at Sportfest and looking forward to working with them

to see how we can take it further across the Province.

MS ROGERS: When we see that population shift and there is some great

private enterprise, recreational complexes, and gyms opening up, but it proves

to be a real challenge in terms of affordability for people.

I believe I may be done. I am interested in the area of festivals and come

home years, and if the Province is looking specifically at fostering or

supporting those kinds of events?

MR. DALLEY: We do what we can through cultural events funding. It is

driven by application. We support where we can, recognizing a number of factors

primarily what budgets they are using to help drive in terms of what we are

able to do. We realize small amounts mean a lot, but we have so many events and

festivals happening in the Province. It is application driven.

We are delighted when these take place. It is an important part of our

tourism product. It has done wonders for our economy, particularly in rural

areas as well. There is an application and we will support them in any way we

can.

MS ROGERS: I believe I might be done. I do want to say once again, thank

you for today and for your fantastic work.

I do have a concern about us being in a time of prosperity and to see cuts in

the arts. I have grave concern about that, and particularly what it means to us

as a people and how they are underpinning as well so much of our heritage, our

culture, for the tourism industry as well.

MR. DALLEY: I appreciate those comments.

A closing comment on the cuts; we understand nobody wants cuts. It is not

something we wanted to do either as a government, obviously. There is a fiscal

reality that we live in.

In this particular case, the arts are sharing in some of the fiscal

management. We have done our very best, in conversations with the Newfoundland

and Labrador Arts Council in particular, to minimize the impact on our artists.

The number of grants should stay the same. As I said, the commitment we would

have and a mandate through our department is if there is any way we can support

the arts we will, and will continue to do so.

MS ROGERS: There has been so much wonderful research done showing that

where there is a thriving, active arts and culture community that it is a

stimulus to economic growth

MR. DALLEY: Absolutely.

MS ROGERS: - and can actually help us through the tough times, and the

times of prosperity.

Thank you.

CHAIR: Thank you, Ms Rogers.

Mr. Ball, I think you have some remaining questions.

MR. BALL: I will just finish up.

Gerry brought it up about the outfitters. I know it is really not directly

related to your department, Derrick, but one of the things I have heard and I

think you will hear more about, and it will probably come out in the

environmental assessment, will be the impact that the transmission line will

have on the Northern Peninsula when it comes to outfitters.

This line will virtually go through some of the prime outfitting area and the

impact it will have on the experience as you fly into some of those camps and

have to pass through a 200-foot transmission line. I think it is something that

when you work with the association, it is something you are going to be hearing

a little bit about and how it affects the overall experience. I will just leave

you with that. I know there is not a lot we can do about that today, but to make

you aware of it, that it is something you are going to hear a fair bit more

about.

I am glad you brought up Tales, Trails and Tunes because we know we are two

weeks away from that. Well, it is probably even less than two weeks away from

that now. It is a fantastic event.

I will close by saying thanks for the great work you have done and how

responsive you have been. I know the conditions that you work under today.

Thank you very much to you and your staff.

MR. DALLEY: Thank you very much.

I appreciate the questions.

CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Ball, Ms Rogers.

Before I thank the minister and the committee, I am going to ask the Clerk to

read the Budget headings so we can adopt them.

CLERK: Heading 1.1.01 to 4.1.02 inclusive.

CHAIR: Inclusive; you have heard the headings.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Motion carried.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01 through 4.1.02 carried.

CLERK: The total.

CHAIR: Oh, and the total, go ahead.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Total carried.

On motion, Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, total heads

carried.

On motion, Estimates of the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation

carried.

CHAIR: Mr. Minister and your staff, I want to thank you for coming and

giving so much good information and discussion back and forth, and

clarification. I want to thank the Committee for their diligence and their good

questions. Again, I look forward to further debate in the House.

Thank you; we are adjourned.

CLERK: A motion to adjourn.

CHAIR: Can I have a motion to adjourn?

MR. CROSS: Yes.

CHAIR: The Member for Bonavista North.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Carried.

On motion, the Committee adjourned.