Manitoba Hansard — 4 December 2023 (Sitting 11, 43rd Legislature, 1st Session)

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Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session – Forty-Third Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Tom Lindsey Speaker Vol. LXXVIII No. 11 - 1:30 p.m., Monday, December 4, 2023 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Third Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello, Hon. Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma, Hon. Union Station NDP BALCAEN, Wayne Brandon West PC BEREZA, Jeff Portage la Prairie PC BLASHKO, Tyler Lagimodière NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian, Hon. Keewatinook NDP BYRAM, Jodie Agassiz PC CABLE, Renée, Hon. Southdale NDP CHEN, Jennifer Fort Richmond NDP COOK, Kathleen Roblin PC CROSS, Billie Seine River NDP DELA CRUZ, Jelynn Radisson NDP DEVGAN, JD McPhillips NDP EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni, Hon. St.

Johns NDP GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC HIEBERT, Carrie Morden-Winkler PC JACKSON, Grant Spruce Woods PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC KENNEDY, Nellie Assiniboia NDP KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP KING, Trevor Lakeside PC KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Dauphin NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom, Hon. Flin Flon NDP LOISELLE, Robert St. Boniface NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya, Hon. Notre Dame NDP MOROZ, Mike River Heights NDP MOSES, Jamie, Hon. St.

Vital NDP MOYES, Mike Riel NDP NARTH, Konrad La Vérendrye PC NAYLOR, Lisa, Hon. Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC OXENHAM, Logan Kirkfield Park NDP PANKRATZ, David Waverley NDP PERCHOTTE, Richard Selkirk PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP SALA, Adrien, Hon. St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHMIDT, Tracy, Hon. Rossmere NDP SCHOTT, Rachelle Kildonan-River East NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SIMARD, Glen, Hon. Brandon East NDP SMITH, Bernadette, Hon.

Point Douglas NDP STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STONE, Lauren Midland PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt, Hon. Concordia NDP WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

301 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, December 4, 2023 The House met at 1:30 p.m. The Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperit y of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, and that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and f or the welfare of all our people. Amen.

We acknowledge we are gathered on Treaty 1 territory and that Manitoba is located on the treaty territories and ancestral lands of the Anishinaabeg, Anishininewuk, Dakota Oyate, Denesuline and Nehethowuk nations. We acknowledge Manitoba is located on the Homeland of the Red River Métis. We acknowledge northern Manitoba includes lands that were and are the ancestral lands of the Inuit. We respect the spirit and intent of treaties and treaty making and remain committed to working in partnership with First Nations, Inuit, Métis people in the spirit of truth, reconciliation and collaboration. Please be seated.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS The Speaker: Introduction of bills? Com mittee reports? Tabling of reports? Ministerial statements? MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Ukrainian Catholic Women's League of Canada Mrs. Rachelle Schott (Kildonan-River East): Honourable Speaker, today I'd like to recognize some phenomenal members of my community, the Ukrainian Catholic Women's League of Canada. I have had the pleasure of visiting with them several times the last few weeks, most recently at the St. Anne Ukrainian Catholic Parish for a good old-fashioned perogy supper. I am thankful to all the volunteers for putting on the event and welcoming me.

I look forward to our ongoing conversations about how we can work together to better serve our neighbourhood. St. Anne Parish was also the original home to the Ukrainian Catholic Women 's League of Canada' s English as a second language school to help Ukrainian newcomers. What started out in a church basement with three classes this spring has exploded. The program quickly outgrew the basement space and now runs six classes at my old junior high, Chief Peguis school. These incredible volunteers are te aching 150 Ukrainian newcomers and another 50 are on the wait-list for the program.

The need for new comer pro gramming like English as a second language is so high–the Ukrainian Catholic Women's League of Canada initiative grew without any promotion and is entirely supported with community-based funding. On Saturdays, attendance often dips, as many students visit food banks and cannot attend class. As we welcome more new comers to Manitoba, like the Ukrainian Catholic Women' s League students, the community needs our support now more than ever. I'd like to commend the organizers of this great program who have joined us today in the gallery.

I encourage everyone to stand and show our apprecia- tion for the essential work they do for Ukrainian new- comers. It makes me optimistic for the future of our community with such strong and thoughtful women leading grassroots initiatives like this one. Thank you. Inclusion Selkirk Mr. Richard Perchotte (Selkirk): Honourable Speaker, it's with extreme honour that I rise today to relay my enduring support and respect for Inclusion Selkirk and the amazing people that make this organization the success that it is.

Inclusion Selkirk exists to walk alongside individuals with intellectual disabilities and th eir families on life's journey. Their ultimate vision is an inclusive community. Their values are inclusion, trust, commitment and living your best life. Started in 1956, they are now one of the largest non-profit agencies in the Interlake -Eastman region. They now support 125 individuals and employ approximately 150 people. They provide shared homes, independent living suites, respite suites, crisis suites and commercial suites.

302 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2023 If you're looking for a truly unique gift for that special someone, visit Wis hme in Selkirk. You will not be disappointed. The organization is currently looking forward to starting its next project, develop- ing a fully accessible four-storey, mixed-use building, and with the generous donation from the Gaynor family, that start date is getting closer to reality. If you ever have the opportunity to attend one of their socials, jump at the chance. It'll warm your heart to see what true enjoyment looks like.

You will see patrons waiting to get in before the doors open and dancing from the moment the music starts till the power goes off. I would like to acknowledge their president, Richard Hodges, and the following heroes that are here today: Maria Freeman, Merilee Mollard, Charles Birch, Jessica Croy and the countless others who make such a difference in our community. Please join me to acknowledge the important work that they do. Daniel "Danny" Schur Hon. Ron Kostyshyn (Minister of Agriculture): Today I'd like to acknowledge the passing of Daniel "Danny" Schur. Danny passed away in April at the young age of 56.

Danny was a passionate storyteller who enjoyed combining both history and music in his work. His legacy is inspiring. His success shows how young folks from small town of Manitoba can pursue their dreams. Danny grew up on a family farm in the Ethelbert area, just northwest of Dauphin. Danny was quite involved with music at a young age. He took piano lessons and singing in his community choir church. He later attended the school of music at the University of Manitoba, and Danny was a composer, a producer and a manager based in Winnipeg.

He was best known for his third musical rehearsal called the –Strike! that told the story of Ukranian immigrants who was killed in 1919 during the Winnipeg General Strike. * (13:40) After a 1 0-year effort, the musical Strike! was later adopted to a film called the –Stand! The movie was filmed in Winnipeg and premiered in the late 2019 at the Toronto film festival. Stand! became the No. 1 Canadian movie in the box office that year. I'd like to extend my gratitude for Danny 's family–to Danny 's dedication to the Manitoba history and the stories he told.

I want to express my heartfelt condolences to Danny 's family, friends and colleagues. Danny carried a love for his Ukrainian heritage and he left a remark able legacy and he will be missed. Thank you. And, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to acknowl edge some family members who are in attendance today: his wife, Juliane Schaible; his son, Stefan; brother, Willard Schur; sister -in-law, Joyce; and nephew, Kevin Schur, in the gallery today. So I'd ask for everyone please rise and show our appreciation to the family. Mike Muzylowski Mr.

Greg Nesbitt (Riding Mountain): A man who left the family farm near Oakburn, Manitoba in the early 1950s was honoured by both the City of Flin Flon and Callinex Mines earlier this fall. Mike Muzylowski, who is now in his 80s, was recognized with a statue bearing his likeness in Pioneer Square in the northern Manitoba community, in recognition of his more than a half -a-century contribution to the mining industry.

The gifted geologist and mine finder, innovative financier, respected senior mining executive was instrumental in the discovery and development of 16 mineral deposits that became producing mines – 13 in Manitoba, two in Nevada and one in the Northwest Territories. In northern Manitoba, Muzylowski is perhaps best known as the founder of the Trout Lake mine, one of the Flin Flon region' s longest running, most profitable mines.

Muzylowski, who signed up for a geology course at the University of Manitoba without knowing what geology was, obtained a bachelor of science degree in 1955 and joined Hudson Bay Exploration and Development Company as a field geologist before advancing into more senior roles. Several of his drill targets became producers for HudBay, notably the Anderson Lake mine in Snow Lake and the Centennial mine near Flin Flon.

In 1984, he accepted the position of president and CEO of Granges Exploration Ltd. and grew the company from $4 million to $65 million in sales until it was acquired by Australian mining giant, MIM, in 1989. The 2011 inductee into the Canadian Mining Hall of Fame may have started his journey by accident, but

December 4, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 303 this small -town man 's stellar achievements, both under and above ground truly showcase that he had a significant and lasting impact on Canada 's mining industry. Honourable Speaker, as a resident of Flin Flon, I know you will want to check out the plaque detailing Mr. Muzylowski's remarkable life story and career accomplishments that will be added to the statue at a later date. Thank you. Hudson Lylyk Hon.

Nello Altomare (Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): Honourable Speaker, today I want to bring attention to a remarkable young person from the Transcona area, Hudson Lylyk. Five-year-old Hudson decided to fundraise for a needed cause. At École Margaret -Underhill, he was inspired by national and Transcona hero, Terry Fox, when they talked about him in his kindergarten class. Hudson started a fundraiser supporting Koats for Kids, generating more than $1,800 worth of donations for children in need.

Initially, he surprised his parents by wanting to buy –or wanting to put his $5 weekly allowance towards helping uninsured Americans pay for their medical expenses. While his heart was in the right place, his parents focused his passion on something a little more manageable, so they decided to raise funds to donate 10 snowsuits to Koats for Kids. United Way 's annual Koats for Kids initiative started in 1989 and annua lly provides around 6,000 winter coats and clothing for children in need.

Hudson isn't one to do things in half measures and so ensured each child received the full winter getup of coats, boots, ski pants, toques and mittens. As we all know, Manitoba's winters can be some- what harsh and not everyone has access to warmer clothing. With the help of his family, Hudson was able to reach and surpass his goal. His mother, Bria, was instrumental in the effort, as she is a professional photographer, and offered a pay-what-you-can photo- graphy session for contributors supporting the fundraiser.

Hudson and his family inspire us all to be generous with our energy, generous with our resources and generous with our time. Hudson' s kindness reminds us all that no idea or passion is too small to make an impact. I want to take a moment to thank Hudson and his family, who join us in the gallery today, for their compassion, their empathy, their effort. And thank you again. Introduction of Guests The Speaker: Before we proc eed to oral questions, I'd like to introduce some guests in the gallery today.

We have seated in the public gallery, from Garden City Collegiate, 50 grade 9 students under the direction of Lia Baffour-Awuah. This group is located in the constituency of the honour able member for McPhillips (MLA Devgan). Welcome. I would also like to draw attention of all honour - able members to the public gallery, where we have with us today Molly Toews, from Kildonan- River East, who is in the Legis lative Building for the first time and is a guest of the honour able member for Kildonan-River East. On behalf of all members, we welcome you. ORAL QUESTIONS Fuel Tax Amendment Act Impact on Grocery Prices Mr.

Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Honourable Speaker, last week the NDP were critical of our suggestions to amend the gas tax holiday to ensure that farmers and others were included. They tried to shut down the House. They were upset that we sat late in committee. The Premier even came here and mocked the sug gestions in question period. Then quietly last week, his Minister of Finance (MLA Sala) actually did the right thing and accepted all of the recom mendations that we brought forward with amendments. And I want to commend our PC team for ensuring that f armers and others are included in the bill.

But now that we have clarity on that, Honourable Speaker, can the Premier please explain how he intends to crack down on family -run grocery stores and corner stores as he said he would if the prices don't meet his expectations on January 1? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): I wanted to join in the congratulations of our excellent Finance Minister, who is delivering real results for people starting on January 1.

304 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2023 I want to encourage the member for Steinbach to do his homework and review the comments that were made, which is that it 's the large grocery chains that we expect to step up and deliver savings. We are big supporters of local small busi nesses here in the province. I do want to, however, ask: W here is t his legal opinion that his leader has been talking about for months about the carbon tax here in Canada? We 've been in government, we've been looking all over for it.

We look in this compartment, it's not there; it's the Dunsky report that recommends a carbon tax. We look in this cupboard. Oh, it 's not there; it 's the original VIRGO report that recom mended a supervised consump tion site. But where is this PC legal opinion? We can't seem to find it anywhere. The Speaker: The honourable member for Steinbach, on a supplementary question. Mr. Goertzen: It's interesting that the Premier would use his first response to defend the carbon tax. He never misses an op portunity to defend Trudeau and the carbon tax.

But he does miss an op portunity to defend businesspeople right here in the province of Manitoba. Grocery stores, whether they are small and large, are dealing with issues of labour shortage. They're dealing with issues of retail crime, things that the government won't deal with. But the Premier said–and maybe he was shooting from the lip–said that he was going to crack down on grocery stores and threaten them if they didn't reduce the prices. But what he didn't say is what his expecta- tions are of prices to drop for products that are largely manufactured or produced –grown–outside of the province of Manitoba.

Can he tell us, what are the expectations for prices on January 1 and how is he going to enforce it? * (13:50) Mr. Kinew: So far we have seen from the PCs ' criticism of our move to cut taxes, and now they 're criticizing us for trying to save people money at the grocery store. The only piece of policy that the PCs are consistent on is trying to make life in Manitoba less affordable. They did it in gov ernment, and now they keep banging the table in this direction during their newfound roles in opposition. But I'll return, there is an important public policy question.

The PCs went to the people of Manitoba and said that they had a legal opinion about the carbon tax. We simply want t o know where it is so that we can have an informed partici pation in this im portant debate on affordability. The Speaker: Honourable member for Steinbach, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Goertzen: We understand the long- term love affair that the Premier's had with the carbon tax. He's had it for many, many years and he said he was going to go to Ottawa, negotiate a carbon tax in Manitoba.

But what he should understand is that when he says something in the Premier 's office, that actually has con sequences. And he threatened busi nesses. He said he was going to go after busi nesses on January 1st if food items that are largely produced outside of Manitobans–don't see the price go down. We're just asking him to explain: what is his expectation? How is it going to be monitored? How is it going to be enforced? Or was he just making it up as he went along, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Kinew: You know, we are going to monitor grocery prices in the new year.

The large grocery chains have said that trans portation costs are why they're charging more to consumers, even as they post record profits. So, unlike the PCs, we're going to keep an eye on the situation and then take action to save you money. We weren't able to find a PC legal opinion on the carbon tax so we went ahead and asked for one. And actually, the findings were quite surprising. It turns out that the PC position is unlawful. And I quote: It would not be lawful for a prov incial government to direct fuel distributors not to remit the carbon charge contrary to provisions of the federal act. End quote.

I'll table this for the benefit of the members opposite. I want to know if they plan to rescind their private member's resolution for tomorrow morning in light of the facts. Surgical and Diagnostic Services Wait Times Data Removed from Website Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Roblin): The first thing this NDP gov ernment did in health care was cut the surgical and diagnos tic task force, because getting Manitobans the quickest care available didn 't line up with their ideology and the wishes of their friends in the Manitoba Health Coalition.

December 4, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 305 In the days that followed, the NDP gov ernment deleted wait times data from the government website. After being publicly called out by the media, the NDP put it back up. There was a real lack of clarity on this issue last week, so I just want to ask the Minister of Health: Why did their government remove the wait times data from the website? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): I want to take the opportunity to thank our Minister of Health for the important and swift action that they have taken since taking office. We have already added more beds to the Grace Hospital.

We 've already put in a plan to move that expansion beyond that. We 've added more surgical slates here in the province. One thing that we won 't do, one thing that we recognize is causing great frustration for the nurses and physicians who work on the front lines, is to continue building up the upper echelons of the health-care bureaucracy as the PCs did throughout their time in office. We are taking quick steps to reduce the bureaucracy and restore decision making to where it belongs, at the front lines. The Speaker: The honourable member from Roblin, on a supplementary question. Mrs.

Cook: Honourable Speaker, last week the minister's spokesperson told the media the decision to delete the wait times data was intentional. I'll table the quote from the spokesperson: The dashboard as it existed was not very user-friendly or helpful. Then on Friday the Premier said it was just a whoopsie. It can't be both. My question to the minister is: Which is it? The Speaker: The hon ourable First Minister. [interjection] Order. Mr. Kinew: Our government has taken quick action to ensure that there will be more su rgeries conducted here in Manitoba to serve the people of this great province.

Contract that–contrast that with the folks on the other side who want to contract out and create more opportunity for Americans to make money, even as Manitobans have to travel further and further, not just to address surgeries, but also to access emergency care. Their time in office was characterized by cuts and closures. Already, our time in office –because of our Minister of Health and the rest of this strong team–has been characterized by swift action to give you what matters most: health care in the province of Manitoba. The Speaker: The honourable member from Roblin, on a final supplementary question. Mrs.

Cook: Honourable Speaker, nothing the NDP have announced since taking office will do anything to build surgical capacity in Manitoba. Nothing they've announced will lower wait times. Will they just admit that the reason they tried to delete the data is because wait times are actually going to go up? They 've prioritized their ideology over the needs of Manitoba patients. They cut the task force without first ensuring we had the capacity here in Manitoba. Will they admit that the reason they cut–they deleted the data is because wait times are going to go up? Mr.

Kinew: There are many important steps that we are taking to reduce the wait times in emergency rooms, as well as to ensure that people can get their surgeries more quickly. Now, one of the things that no one in Manitoba has ever understood about the PC plan for health care is, how does driving further get you seen quicker? That's why wait times continued to increase month over month, year over year, throughout their time in office. Also, when you cut the health-care staff that you rely on to deliver services, as the PCs did, that helps to create and exacerbate a health-care human resource crisis.

Our team is taking swift action to repair the damage caused by two terms of PC cuts. Our Health Minister has made many important announcements to improve the flow for patients in the hospital, to add slates for surgical centres. All of that is being invested right here in the province of Manitoba where you access health care. Residential and Rental Construction Removal of PST on New Units Mrs. Carrie Hiebert (Morden-Winkler): Honour- able Speaker, Manitoba is in the midst of a housing shortage, with many seniors, students and young families struggling to find affordable housing.

306 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2023 This NDP gov ernment made a commit ment to Manitobans to address thi s need, yet so far, we 've heard nothing. The federal gov ernment has already intro duced legislation in Parliament to remove the GST with Bill C-56. Can the minister confirm that her government will remove the PST from new residential construction, as promised? Hon. Bernadette Smith (Minister of Housing, Addictions and Homelessness): I want to thank the member for that question.

Well, I want to tell the member, when I was elected to this position, I inherited a list of social housing that was set to be sold off by this previous government. And we stopped those units from being sold off because we believe that Manitobans should be able to be housed in this province, some thing that this government did not believe in. I would drive out of t his Legislature every day and see people in the bus shacks every day. And I'd be in this House chastising this government, saying, what are you doing about this?

And while they were selling off social housing, giving social housing away, because they didn't believe that people– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for Morden-Winkler, on a supplementary question. Mrs. Hiebert: Honourable Speaker, according to a CMHC report from earlier this year, across Canada, the rental va cancy rate reached its lowest level in – since 2001 at just 1.9 per cent. With rising interest rates and grocery prices, Manitobans are des perate for affordable housing options.

So, I ask with–the minister again, can we–can she share with the House: Wh en will her gov ernment fulfill their promise and remove the PST from new rental construction? The Speaker: The honourable minister of–sorry, now I've lost it. The honour able Minister of Housing, Addictions and Homelessness. Ms. Smith: I can tell yo u what our gov ernment is doing. We are taking a whole -of-government approach.

We are actually working with municipalities, with the federal government, with front-line workers and, actually, with the very people who are actually experiencing homelessness, who are giving us their lived experiencing–experience and telling us exactly what they need, some thing that this gov ernment didn't do. * (14:00) They ignored the issues. They ignored the very people who were ex periencing homelessness. They would walk out of this building every day. We are taking an approach where we are working with folks, getting them housed and asking and figuring out what supports they need.

Whether it 's mental health, whether it 's addictions, whether –you know. We believe in a safe supportive– The Speaker: The honour able minister 's time has expired. The honourable member for Morden-Winkler, on a final supplementary question. Mrs. Hiebert: Affordable housing options make up only 4 per cent of the rental property in Winnipeg. A gas tax holiday does not increase the affordable housing stock. The NDP -Liberal coalition in Ottawa have already introduced Bill C-56 in the House to remove GST from new rental construction.

Other prov incial jurisdictions have already followed suit and committed to removing their PST. Can the minister tell us by what day Manitobans can expect the PST to be removed from the new rental construction? Ms. Smith: Well, what I can tell the member is that we will end chronic homelessness in this province in two terms. What I can tell the member is that we will open a supervised consumption site in this province in two terms, something that this government never did. We will also take a whole -of-government approach, something that this government never did.

And we will also listen to Manitobans, something that this government never did. Seniors and Long-Term Care Budget Increase Inquiry Mr. Derek Johnson (Interlake-Gimli): Honourable Speaker, the Depart ment of Seniors and Long- Term Care was created with an initial budget of $54 million, an increase to over $93 million–a 72 per cent in - crease. By amalgamating Seniors and Long- Term Care into the De partment of Health, the money once

December 4, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 307 directed towards seniors programs will disappear into the overall Health budget. Honourable Speaker, will this gov ernment state unequivocally that the budget for Seniors and Long-Term Care will increase in the next prov incial budget and will always remain distinct from general Health spending? Hon.

Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long -Term Care): Honourable Speaker, I welcome the op portunity to talk about the previous government's record in terms of how they failed to approach seniors in this province in a respectful, dignified and comprehensive manner. The member opposite stands up and talks about what his gov ernment did or didn' t do, but what he doesn't want to talk about is the negative impact that his decision making–previous gov ernment's decision making had on seniors across our province.

On this side of the House, we 're taking an approach that puts seniors and Manitobans first, that works in col laboration with them and strengthens health care across our province. We won 't take the failed approach of the previous government. The Speaker: The honourable member for Interlake-Gimli, on a supplementary question. Seniors Hearing Aid Program Program Expansion Inquiry Mr.

Derek Johnson (Interlake-Gimli): Honourable Speaker, one of the critical programs tha t Seniors and Long-Term Care–that was a distinct de partment, I might add –initiated was the Manitoba Seniors Hearing Aid Program: $12.6 million put directly towards solving a problem that affects thousands of Manitoban seniors. The response was unprecedented; a seemingly simple measure like this imme diately improved the quality of lives of thousands of Manitobans. Honourable Speaker, will this gov ernment continue to expand the Manitoba Seniors Hearing Aid Program? Hon.

Uzoma Asagwara (Minister o f Health, Seniors and Long -Term Care): Honourable Speaker, our gov ernment is committed to enhancing programs and services for seniors in a multitude of ways that will improve the out comes for seniors across our province, and that includes ensuring tha t we're investing in staffing capacity across the province.

Now, something that 's important to note is that under the previous government, they fired health-care workers across the system, not just nurses –rec- reational workers, spiritual-care workers, physicians, health-care experts, rather, that provided direct care and consultative services to seniors who need them – all cut, minimized, under the previous government. We're not taking that approach. The Speaker: The hon ourable member from Interlake-Gimli, on a final supplementary question. Self- and Family-Managed Home Care Government Funding Inquiry Mr.

Derek Johnson (Interlake-Gimli): So, I hear that that's going to be cut. Honourable Speaker, Manitobans know what 's best for themselves and their families when it comes to their care. Self - and family -managed home care allows individuals and families to make their own decisions on how they want to be cared for. In the '22-23 budget, the self - and family -managed home care received an additional $12.6 million, followed by another $1.3-million increase in '23-24 budget.

Honourable Speaker, will this gov ernment give our seniors the choice to determine their own care by continuing to increase funding to the self- and family- managed care home program? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long -Term Care): Honourable Speaker, I 'm old enough to remember when the previous gov ernment froze the wages of the home-care workers that seniors depend on to deliver those services. They froze those home -care workers' wages for so long that we lost those skilled health-care providers from our health-care system permanently.

Members on that side of the House have no concept of the damage they have done to our health- care system th at our gov ernment is committed to cleaning up, fixing and strengthening for the long-term. We will take no lessons on home care, something that used to be a gold standard set by Manitoba, from members opposite. Food Insecurity Affordability Measures Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): Honourable Speaker, food bank usage is over 30 per cent. The 2023 Harvest Manitoba report said three quarters of food bank

308 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2023 users are unable to afford healthy food. Half are living with a disability or health condition. What specific affordability measures will the minister implement for vulner able Manitobans accessing food banks this holiday season? Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Minister of Families): I want to say miigwech to my colleague across the way for an important question. Certainly, as I think the last time that the member asked the question, I mentioned in the House that there are many jurisdictions that are dealing with food insecurity across Canada right now.

Certainly it 's a huge issue that food banks are dealing with, that governments at all levels are dealing with and certainly citizens across the country are dealing with. I want to just take this op portunity to say miigwech to all of those folks that are on the front lines at our food banks, that a re doing extra ordinary work in very, very tough times and tough situations, that every day show up to work or to volunteer to ensure that citizens have food and that they're able to eat. The Speaker: The hon ourable member from Midland, on a supplementary question.

Food Price Inflation Supports for Community Organizations Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): Honourable Speaker, the annual Westman Christmas campaign has over 100 families who still need a sponsor, and they put out a plea as they 're anticipating a record number of requests for hampers and only have over half of their previous sponsors this year. Has the minister consulted with these organi - zations to deter mine what their needs are for this holiday season and this food inflation? Hon. N ahanni Fontaine (Minister of Families): Again, miigwech to the member opposite for the question.

The folks in our de partment are working very, very hard with those, again, that are on the front lines of doing this very, very im portant work. In fact , I've shared in the House that I 've met with our staff that are working with–in respect of meeting with folks that are doing this work.

I just want to say this: I –and I say this with the utmost respect to the member opposite, but I do find it hard to believe that all of a sudden after seven and a half years of their previous gov ernment, now all of a sudden they're starting to care about food insecurity when all of those seven and a half years, we didn't hear tickety-boo from any of the members opposite, including this front bench and the former premier. So I really would encourage the member to ask her colleagues– * (14:10) The Speaker: Member's time has expired. The honourable member from Midland, on a final supplementary question.

Food Security Fund Funding Intention Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): The PC government created the Food Security Fund: $4 million to support these com munity organizations. That seems like a pretty important fund that these com munity organi- zations commended. So, will the minister continue this important fund that was created by the PC government and commit to maintaining this much-needed funding? Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Minister of Families): Miigwech again for the question. I will share this.

Like many of the things that they announced in their dying days of their PC cold, callous government, that was one of the initiatives that they did announce. And I think that it was an im portant initiative in respect of that we are facing an affordability crisi s. So I would–I, again, once again I want to say to the member and to every–folks, particularly the ones that were here in the last seven and a half years: When did you all start caring about vul nerable Manitobans and trying to feed them? Because you di dn't in the last seven and a half years.

But our gov ernment has –will care, does care about feeding Manitobans and believes in our citizens here in Manitoba and believes in the people that are doing the work on the front lines. School Construction Projects Update Inquiry Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): It sounds to me like the minister is saying no to extending that funding, Honourable Speaker. It's unfortunate. Honourable Speaker, would the Minister for Infrastrucutre commit today and please let us know the status of the request for quali fications for the nine schools that ended October 4?

December 4, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 309 Can the minister please stand in the House and let us know the status of those qualifications? Hon. Lisa Naylor (Minister of Consumer Protection and Government Services): I thank the member opposite for the question. The member identified it as a question for the Minister of Infra - structure, but it's actually a question for the Minister of Consumer Protection and Government Services. And so what I will say to that is that our gov ern- ment's doing an incredible job right now.

This depart- ment has so much work to do to review commitments that have been made, as we 've learned of how overcommitted, how much spending this government promised in their last dying days that was not accounted for in government. So my staff are working around the clock trying to sort out what projects can proceed and which projects will have to be paused because of the incom- petence of the previous government. The Speaker: The honourable member from Lac du Bonnet, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Ewasko: I'm looking at the list here and it says that the minister –the MLA for Wolseley is the Minister of Transpor tation and Infra structure, Minister of Consumer Protec tion and Gov ernment Services. So, it's unfortunate that the minister stood today, Honourable Speaker, and has confirmed what the Education and Early Childhood Learning Minister has already put on the record: that they 're cutting nine schools. Is this true, Hon ourable Speaker, yes or no? To the minister who's wearing two or three different hats.

MLA Naylor: I hope that that question made a lot more sense to you than it did to me, but I 'll do my best to try to give some answer –a credible answer to an odd statement. I can say that, as I said in the last question, we are reviewing every project carefully. Schools are in - credibly important to this province, incredibly impor- tant to school divisions and to students and families. And the fa ct that we are forced into a situation of having to review every single commitment because of the incompetence of the previous gov ernment is a tragedy for families in this province.

But we will keep you posted on the outcomes of that particular commitment. The Speaker: The honourable member from Lac du Bonnet, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Ewasko: Again, it seems that today, what's old is new again, Mr. Honourable Speaker. The NDP failed to build any schools in their 17 years of tender. Now it's confirmed by the Minister of Consumer Protection–Honourable Speaker, I 'll make this clear for the minister –that she is actually cutting nine schools, which includes over 660 child-care spaces.

Has she made those calls to those school divisions and schools, and those good Manitobans in those areas, and telling them that she's cutting all those nine schools, Mr. Honourable Speaker, Sir? MLA Naylor: You know, I think this is a good time to point out that, on this side of the House, there ar e so many educators and past school trustees, people who made their entire lives before this about educa- tion. And nothing has changed about our commitment to educating students in this province.

Our government is committed to reviewing all the options and making decisions that will continue to benefit students and families and protect good jobs, while being fiscally responsi ble, something that this government was not. Safety of Nurses Working at HSC Request for Security Plan MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Health- care pro fessionals, parti cularly nurses, have been leaving our province and leaving the public system for agency positions.

There are many reasons as to why this is happening, but one of these reasons are because nurses and he alth-care pro fessionals have reported feeling unsafe in their workplaces. Nurses working at HSC have reported being screamed at, physic ally assaulted and having property damage in the parkade. Honourable Speaker, how exactly is this govern- ment improving the security situation in and around HSC and when exactly will this plan be implemented? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): I thank the member for Tyndall Park for this important question.

As part of the work that our team is doing under the leadership of our Minister of Health, we are committed to providing a safe workplace for nurses, for health-care professionals, physicians, for everyone who works in the health-care system, as well as for the patients.

310 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2023 Now, we look forward to rolling out a serie s of improvements in the workplaces for people across the province, inclusive of the Health Sciences campus. But I also want to point out that one of the other issues we need to address along with this are the long- standing social issues in the inner cit y of Winnipeg, across Manitoba, that are contributing to some of these situations and safety. So, we're going to take imme diate action within the health -care centres.

We 're also going to take immediate action in the broader com munity to get a handle on this toxic drug crisis that is tearing Manitoba apart. The Speaker: The honourable member from Tyndall Park, on a supplementary question. Mandated Overtime for Nurses Request for Legislation to Ban MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Another reason affecting staff retention are that nurses in our province are working unsustainable mandated over - time. No one can perform their best work when they are burnt out. When our Health Minister was formerly in opposition, they had introduced legis lation to ban overtime for nurses.

So my question is: When exactly will this government follow through and introduce legis lation to ban mandatory overtime? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long -Term Care): I thank that –the member for Tyndal l Park for that really im portant question about, you know, the sus tainability of the health-care workforce that is working incred ibly hard to provide the best care possible at the bedside for Manitobans. I will say that I 've met with health -care workers directly. I've met with health-care leadership. I've met with unions.

And everybody's on the same page, that it's so important for us to work collectively to address this issue, and to look at examples like the Grace Hospital, that' s done a tre mendous job at reducing mandated overtime hours and has done an excellent job bringing folks back into the public system. So, we need to celebrate our success stories, learn from those folks directly, continue to invest in health- care human resource capacity. And most importantly, work together to get that done. The Speaker: The honourable member from Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary question.

Health-Care Professionals Misconduct Reporting and Whistle-Blower Protection MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): The alarming rate of burnout among health- care workers affects employee resilience and morale. One of the reasons for burnout is toxic workplace culture. When health-care professionals can't speak up about workplace misconduct or abuse, the safety of patients are com promised. Health-care professionals need to have the confi dence to be able to report wrongdoing in the workplace.

When exactly can health-care workers expect this government to create an open -door policy for misconduct r eporting and also for protec tion of whistle-blowers? * (14:20) Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long -Term Care): I ap preciate that question, Honourable Speaker. It allows me the op - portunity to talk about an nouncements our gov ern- ment has already made in terms of improving the culture of workplaces for front-line workers.

You know, one of the first steps that we took after our entire team was sworn in was to send an open letter to health -care workers letting them know that the days of retribution and being silenced and attacked for speaking up and advocating for patients are done, that the previous gov ernment's approach –which really, quite frankly, scared health-care workers out of doing what they knew was in the best int erest of patients–those days are long done. It 's a new day in health care in Manitoba.

Our team is very much looking forward to initiating our first formal stop this Friday to speak directly to front -line health -care workers on our listening tour, which has been in credibly well received, despite what members opposite think, from health-care workers. Adult Literacy Act New Legislation Announcement MLA JD Devgan (McPhillips): Honourable Speaker, we know that, for some Manitobans, a key barrier to employment is literacy. But it's a new day in Manitoba, and our gov ern- ment is working to address literacy rates in the

December 4, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 311 province. We're working to support adults to build a better life here in Manitoba. So, can the Minister of Advanced Education and Training update the House on The Adult Literacy Act and how this legis lation will improve the quality of life for so many people in our province? Hon. Renée Cable (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): I thank my colleague for the important question.

On this side of the House, we understand that not everybody has the same op portunity in K-to-12 education and their life circum stances to achieve the level of numeracy and literacy that they would like to have in order to have a suc cessful life here. We understand that there are barriers to that, and that 's why we brought this legislation in. It's im portant that we have a framework that recognizes the opportunities that we have in front of us to build an affluent Manitoba. This is just the first step. We'll be consulting with stakeholders, with folks who need the training and folks who are providing it.

And this really ensures that we have not only a sub - stantial framework, but measures in place so that we can measure our success. I understand the members opposite did not want to measure their failures. On this side of the House, we're going to be thrilled– The Speaker: Minister's time has expired. Manitoba Hydro Rate Freeze Update Mr. Grant Jackson (Spruce Woods): We've got another potential flip-flop on our hands, and it 's only the third week of session. The Finance Minister says the NDP 's irresponsible hydro rate freeze commit ment may be delayed.

Can he clarify for the House: Will he be directing Hydro to submit their rate freeze to the Public Utilities Board or not? Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro): You know, it is the holiday season, and at this time of year, most people expect perhaps good gestures, gifts, good tidings. But I remember –because I'm old enough to remember a few years ago, during the holiday season, when the members opposite, instead of bringing gifts or good gestures to Manitobans, decided to bring a hydro rate hike for the very first time in our province's history by legis lation. That's their record.

That 's the record of the members opposite. Our record is to bring savings and lower costs for Manitobans. We're bringing forward a fuel tax holiday for Manitobans on January 1st. The only question that Manitobans want to know the answer to is: Will the members opposite support the bill, yes or no? The Speaker: The honourable member from Spruce Woods, on a supplementary question. Mr. Jackson: Well, just like the gas tax cut–which we successfully forced them to include all Manitobans in, I might add –now we know that the NDP are flip-flopping again on the only other affordability measure they campaigned on.

Is the minister going to allow the Public Utilities Board the autonomy to set hydro rates in this province, yes or no? MLA Sala: You know, it 's interesting, Honour able Speaker, that after seven years in gov ernment, we're now hearing all these ideas that the members opposite have about how to lower the cost of living for Manitobans. I don't think it takes me to remind them that they did not take those actions.

They spent seven years in government, and they failed to do the very thing that we're bringing forward here, which is to bring a fuel tax holiday to Manitobans to help them save money just in time for the holidays. Again, the members opposite voted against clause after clause the other night in committee for this bill. The question all Manitobans want to know the answer to is: Will they vote for this bill, yes or no? The Speaker: The honourable member from –for Spruce Woods, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Jackson: Well, there 's no answer from the minister there.

He 's talking about the fuel tax, and that's okay. He's a bit confused; he's still new. It's very simple: Do the NDP plan to take their irresponsible fake freeze to the Public Utilities Board or are the NDP now setting hydro rates at the Cabinet table? MLA Sala: Clearly, the member opposite is the one that's confused about his party 's record and their failure to take any type of meaningful action to reduce energy costs for Manitobans.

312 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2023 On this side of the House, we've brought forward a number of really important initiatives; for example, a fuel tax holiday that we 're still waiting for confirmation as to whether or not the members opposite will support. We've also brought forward other im portant initiatives; for example, geothermal invest ment from the feds here in Manitoba that will help to reduce the costs of heating. And we 're still committed to our hydro rate freeze, and we look forward to bringing that forward to save Manitobans even more money.

Provincial Finances Management Concerns Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield-Ritchot): This NDP Premier received an early Christmas gift: a balanced budget and a $270-million surplus. This NDP Premier then went out after he received this in credibly generous gift, and the first thing he said: his gift was a mess. Is that why he instructed his Minister of Finance (MLA Sala) to run at least three years of deficit budgets? Hon.

Wab Kinew (Premier): I just want to point out that the member opposite glosses over six months when the PCs were in power, and Manitobans are going to be really surprised when they see just how much damage the PCs were able to cause within that six-month period. But the good news is that it's a new day, and our team has a plan to fix the PC mess. But of all the cuts that the PCs ever made, their decision to cancel Christmas was by far the most shocking. But I 'm so proud that our team worked together with the professional public service and com- munity groups to open the people 's building back to the public.

And I just want to say, it 's a merry Christmas, a happy holidays for everyone here in Manitoba. And we're happy even to have the PC caucus join us on the weekend to celebrat e the open house tradition coming back to Manitoba. The Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. Petitions? Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon.

Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): Will you please call for second reading Bill 4, the employment standards code amendment act (Orange Shirt Day), followed by report stage amend- ments for Bill 3, The Fuel Tax Amendment Act (Fuel Tax Holiday), followed by third reading and concurrence for Bill 3, The Fuel Tax Amendment Act (Fuel Tax Holiday).

The Speaker: It has been announced by the Govern- ment House Leader that the em ployment standards code amend ment and inter pretation amendment, orange shirt act day, will be called for second reading, followed by report stage amendments for Bill 3, Fuel Tax Amendment Act, the fuel tax holiday, followed by third reading and concurrence for Bill 3, The Fuel Tax Amendment Act (Fuel Tax Holiday). SECOND READINGS Bill 4–The Employment Standards Code Amendment and

Interpretation Amendment Act (Orange Shirt Day) The Speaker: We'll now proceed with second reading of Bill 4, The Em ployment Standards Code Amend- ment and Inter pretation Amendment Act (Orange Shirt Day). * (14:30) Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): I move, seconded by the Minister of Families (MLA Fontaine), that Bill 4, The Em ployment Standards Code Amendment and

Interpretation Amendment Act (Orange Shirt Day); Loi modifiant le Code des normes d 'emploi et la Loi d'interprétation (Journée du chandail orange), be now read a second time and be referred to a com mittee of this House. Motion presented. Mr. Kinew: The purpose of this bill is clear to all Canadians, as we 've all been on a journey of recon- ciliation together these last number of years.

Some of the important contours of this was when– were when Phil Fontaine spoke publicly about his experience in residential schools a number of decades ago, which proved to be a catalyst for many more people to share their painful and traumatic experi - ences. We also then saw the residential school survivors lobby, pursue justice through the courts and in

December 4, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 313 general, march through the public sphere of Canada to try to educate and win over the hearts and minds of fellow Canadians for a mandate to implement reconciliation with Indigenous peoples and the rest of this great country. The apology delivered by Prime Minister Harper; the launch of the Truth and Recon ciliation Commis- sion, the participation in those hearings of residential school survivors from First Nation s across the country, of Inuit people, of Métis people, saw a reckoning.

I recall being in a newsroom on the day that Prime Minister Harper delivered the apology, and really seeing the impact on many of my non- Indigenous colleagues who were reckoning with the stories they were hearing and try to reconcile that with this image that we have of the country that we love so much. And so, I think all of us have been confronted with some tough questions.

And I think another key turning point happened during t he pandemic, when we heard about the disclosures of the Tk 'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation in British Columbia, and thus became acquainted in the public sphere with a series of ongoing disclosures of unmarked graves at former residential schools. Throughout this period, we have been guided, I would say, as a country by the final report of the Truth and Reconciliation Com mission of Canada, which included in it a series of Calls to Action designed to advance recon ciliation between Indigenous peoples and other Canadians.

And one of these important Calls to Action, Call to Action 80, is that there be a day to commemorate the experiences of resi dential school survivors, the children who never came home, and the parents who were left behind. And so, this bill acts as one piece in the ongoing tapestry of building up the fabric of the province of Manitoba. And it is our view that it 's really im portant that this be a statutory holiday at the prov incial level. There have been im portant steps over the years to ensure that this day was designated at the federal level.

I would acknowl edge my colleague from Steinbach, during his time as premier, for seeing that schools marked this day. But we also need to ensure that this project is taken to its full realization, which I would argue this bill is another step towards, namely that every child be able to fully participate in Orange Shirt Day, that every family be able to fully participate in Orange Shirt Day, no matter where it is that they work.

By recognizing Orange Shirt Day as a provincial statutory holiday, we ensure that no matter whether your parents work in construction, they work in manufacturing, they work in any other provincially regulated workplace, that you will have the opportun- ity to participate in this important event. And so, insofar as it helps every kid to be able to participate in what is quickly becoming one of the more important days on the annual school calendar, I do think it takes another step towards articulating that vision here in Manitoba of Every Child Matters.

I also believe that it 's important for us to always talk about the survivors. And so, I 'd point out to yourself, as well as my colleagues, that if we 're to drive down Broadway, turn left to cross the bridge and proceed down Academy, within about 15 minutes we would find ourselves at the site of a former residential school. The Assiniboia Resi dential School is one that many of us would know people who were forced to go to during their teenage years . It functioned as a residential high school, for lack of a better term. And one of those resi dential school survivors is one that my colleagues would know well.

In 2017, when we recog nized Orange Shirt Day as a prov incial day, if you will, Ted Fontaine came here to speak to us at com mittee and to observe the proceedings here in the Legislature. And from time to time, I like to go back and read the commentary that he made and left for us in Hansard as part of his overall contributions to the project of reconciliation.

And what always stands out to me when I look at the commentary of Niizhotay, his Anishinabe name of Theodore Fontaine, is his desire for our children, grandchildren, from all walks of life, to be able to reach their full potential and to be able to learn from this era of our collective past so that they might marshall a good will and an engage ment with one another to build our collective future.

And so I think that, as I reflect on his life ex per- ience and the friendship tha t I enjoyed with him, if I reflect on one of my dad's best friends, Phil Gardner, who attended that same resi dential school and was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame here in Manitoba for his partici pation in that junior title winning squad; if I reflect on Charlie Nelson, who, in 1967 was denied partici pation, even though he ran

314 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2023 the flame up to the Pan Am Games and then lived long enough to come back to the '99 Pan Am Games and complete the final leg of his journey. If I think about Mabel Horton, who is somebody who helped to raise our kids. They always call her Maple because they've known her since, you know, they were at such an age that they would have been indulged in such a pronunciation.

If I think about my wife's Uncle Fern and his time at Assiniboia, I reflect on the fact that even right here, right where we speak to you today, there are so many jumping-off points for how the impacts of the intergenerational legacy of residential schools has shaped the province that we know and love today. And so we really need to continue moving forward with this im portant project, and so this bill represents that.

And I think that –those are my comments on a professional level, but I would say, on a personal level, I've been lucky to get many titles over the years, but the two most important titles to me are– well, the three most important titles to me, I guess, are father, husband and son. And on each of those scores I believe that this is an important project.

This is one that allows our kids, including my children's generation, to be able to learn from the past so that they can work together to articulate a positive destiny, that is one that honours my wife and her family 's ex perience, coming from both First Nations and Métis c ommunities, and were subject to the residential school era.

And perhaps, most im portantly, within the con - text of honouring the survivors, it allows me, as a son, to think of the old-timer who raised me, to think about his brothers, who didn 't live to see the apology or compensation, and to just reflect on how the journey that they began has moved Canada so far forward in such a good way. And now it is a very humbling ex- perience to be able to play some small part to continuing on the important work. So, with those comments on the record, I will take my seat and look forward to moving this bill through the other stages towards becoming law.

Questions The Speaker: A question period of up to 15 minutes will be held. Questions may be addressed to t he minister by any opposition or independent member in the following sequence: first question by the official opposition critic or designate; subsequent questions asked by critics or designates from other recognized opposition parties; subsequent questions asked by each independent member; remaining questions asked by any op position member. And no question or answer shall exceed 45 seconds. The floor is now open for questions. Mr.

Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Thank you to the member for bringing forward Bill 4, The Employ- ment Standards Code Amendment and Inter pretation Amendment Act (Orange Shirt Day). Just for clarity, can the member please explain how, exactly, if on a weekend, this will work for our school system? * (14:40) Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): I thank my friend from Lac du Bonnet for the question.

I would direct–I know this has been a topic in the public conversation around this bill, so there may be additional public interest in this, and so I would direct people to 78(2), when the holiday falls on a weekend, and I'll just read from it directly: if a school holiday, other than Saturday, Sunday or Remembrance Day, falls on a weekend, it must be observed on the following Monday. And so, this would apply to the Orange Shirt Day. The Speaker: The honourable member from Lac du Bonnet. [interjection] Oh, sorry, the honour able member from Tyndall Park.

MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I was hoping that the Premier could share with us just some ways in which Ma nitobans may use this day as an opportunity to learn about reconciliation. Mr. Kinew: It's a really im portant question, and it 's our hope that Manitobans will partici pate in any number of the im portant Orange Shirt Day events, which are taking plac e in com munities right across the province. They're happening in big cities, they 're happening in small towns, they 're happening on reserve.

We know that Brandon, for instance, celebrates a week worth of events as part of recon ciliation week, and it's been really something to witness people from different parts of the com munity march together towards the site of the former Brandon Resi dential School on the North Hill. So, I do encourage Manitobans to partici pate in the com memoration and honour ing of resi dential school survivors and others impacted by the resi den- tial school era and, of course, to find some time to

December 4, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 315 spend a moment with family so that you can engage in what was lost and denied for those genera tions of Manitobans. Mr. Ewasko: I appreciate the Premier (Mr. Kinew) reading from the bill and adding a little bit of clarity. But part of that question is –so, if Orange Shirt Day, September 30th, happens on a Saturday or Sunday, it is observed on the Monday. Does that means it 's, in its entirety–and I'll do a two-part so that he can answer this in one answer–the schools will be closed, will also child -care centres within schools be closed as well? Mr.

Kinew: Yes, we 'll be working with the school divisions to provide direction on the i mplementation of the bill, as well as to ensuring that they have the proper resources to engage in their com memoration activities, which, he will note, will most likely not happen on September 30th, but will probably happen the week prior when we 're talking about the school - based activities. So, these are all con versations that we look forward to carrying out once we receive royal assent for this bill. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): I want to acknowledge the Premier and this bill.

We spent the first truth and recon ciliation day both at St. John's Park and across the street at Memorial Park at a sacred fire. I have a question regarding com munity events and whether or not the Premier's contemplating a fund to potentially support com munities who want to recognize truth and reconciliation day with certain events in their communities. Mr. Kinew: I do recall the event that my friend from Steinbach is talking about, and I think it was meaningful for us to partici pate in those things together, as it was for members of the public and from the community.

I think that the commentary that he 's suggesting here today is ap propriate and some thing that we would like to consider. The first step is to ensure that there is this demarcation of Orange Shirt Day as a statutory holiday. That 's the one that we 're contemplating here today. So, just for clarity, there 's no statutory identi - fication of an appropriation here to fund those events, but there is certainly an interest on behalf of our gov- ernment, and I 'm sure all Manitobans, to ensure that communities across Manitoba have the ability to honour and commemorate on Orange Shirt Day. Mr.

Goertzen: I thank the Premier for that response and look forward to further comments. One suggestion might be–and I know, for Canada Day, for example–and I don't know if it 's the federal government or the prov incial gov ernment, but they will pay so there'll be free attendance at museums on Canada Day if there 's some thing that recognizes Canada Day at the museum. So, that could potentially be an idea where there could be free attendance at Manitoba museums if the museums are doing some thing that recognizes and honours truth and recon ciliation day. Wonder if the Premier would consider that. Mr.

Kinew: I certainly would consider it. I would welcome the op portunity to work with the federal government, because some of the facilities that may be hosting events would be under federal jurisdiction. But certainly, those areas that the Province could have an active role in supporting, we would like to ensure that there's the ability there. Here, I want to recognize the important work that organizations like Wa -Say have had in launching events like the powwow and the march that goes through downtown Winnipeg on September 30th.

And, of course, I recog nize that there are many similar events happening in com munities across the province. And so, I 'd like to ensure that, where there are community organizations standing up operations or continuing operations, we would definitely like to ensure that they're adequately supported. The Speaker: No further questions? Debate The Speaker: The floor is open for debate. Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): It is an honour to stand today and put a few words on the record in regards to Bill 4. I know the member –the NDP Premier has put some words on the record and– in regards to Mr.

Fontaine, Theodore Fontaine. I've had the pleasure, getting to know him a little bit prior to his passing a few years ago as I was repre- senting Sagkeeng First Nation, Fort Alexander, when I was growing up in the Lac du Bonnet constituency. Had the pleasure of sitting with Mr. Fontaine a few times at various graduation ceremonies on Sagkeeng First Nation as well as some of their –the powwows and celebrations that they had on their community.

316 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2023 I know that the Premier (Mr. Kinew) mentioned the Assiniboia Residential School, and I thought that was a very moving Orange Shirt Day, when they were bringing forward the memorial to that site. I know that our–my colleague, the MLA for Steinbach, had been at the sacred fire with Mrs. Fontaine–Morgan when the renaming of the Wellington Park in the name of Theodore Fontaine, which was located just north of the Assiniboia Residential School.

I really found that the over 700 people –I know that there 's–many of the colleagues who have been re-elected here had joined us that Orange Shirt Day for that memorial sitting and unveiling. And I know that there was well over 700 people had attended that day. And some of the survivors who had attended Assiniboia Residential School had –it was an –it was in–it was an open mic process that morning and into the afternoon. And I sat and listened to many of the stories that were coming out, and absolutely there were many that shared their struggles that they're ex- periencing today.

But there's also–there was also quite a few that stories in regards to, you know, them, you know, getting together with their hockey teams and football teams, and then the vari ous schools that they competed against throughout, I guess, just outside of the city and throughout. So, there 's some interesting stories, but it was definitely a very emotional day, Honourable Speaker. The bill is–has been brought forward today, and I know that we 're debating second reading. And I 've got a strong sense that we 're going to be asking for leave to–for it to be seen tonight at committee.

I look forward to being at com mittee tonight and hearing some of those presentations and stories, possibly later on today. So, Hon ourable Speaker, with those very few words, I look forward to hearing other members get up today and share their stories in regards to Bill 4 and Orange Shirt Day moving forward. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. * (14:50) MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Thank you, Honourable Speaker, for the op portunity to rise here and speak to debate. And I 'd like to thank the Premier for bringing forward this very important piece of legislation.

I think it 's an am azing piece of legis lation, as it truly is a step towards recon ciliation. It is something that many of us here in these Chambers have been fighting for for the last couple of years. And I believe, just from hearing my colleagues' remarks prior to me speaking, that it does seem it will be supported going through to committee and third reading. I believe it was when my colleague from Keewatinook introduced this legis lation, I had the opportunity to share a bit of a story that really resonates with m e.

Meadows West School is a primary edu cation facility in the con stituency of Tyndall Park, and I remember attending a truth and reconciliation event at the school. And, Hon ourable Speaker, it was a very, very beautiful event; one of a kind. Something I've never attended in my history. And I remember going into the school, and it was inside of the gym –the school assembly room –and there were the four directions set up. And students in each of the four corners, here.

And the students took turns rotating from one to the next to the next, and as they did, they each voiced a commit ment, something that they were going to tangibly do to work towards reconciliation. And I remember it was very touching; it was very moving. And just the tangibleness of it , Honourable Speaker, it made me proud of the school, of the teachers, for facilitating some thing of this sort. Because I truly believe that 's what –like, for me, it stuck with me. Honourable Speaker, imagine what it's doing for these children, for the students.

And I think it 's just a prime example of things that we can be doing, not only in the province of Manitoba, but all over Canada, to better recog nize our history. And as these are tangible steps, I see this piece of legis lation being a tangible step towards reconciliation. I'm very mindful of time; again, I know we 're all going to be–trust we're all going to be supporting this legislation moving forward. But I just feel very, very fortunate and blessed to be able to stand here today and speak to this legislation and be on the right side of history. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. Mr.

Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): I want to thank the Premier for bringing forward this bill and acknowledge its importance. Before I get into a–just a few comments about the bill. I want to also acknowl- edge a comment that he made last week about his friend Chris, I believe, and his story, which was very

December 4, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 317 meaningful. A difficult story to share, I'm sure, but an important one. And I spoke to him briefly after about it, and I think it's worth all Manitobans taking the opportunity to hear the Premier's (Mr. Kinew) words if they have the opportunity, because they were important in terms of friendship, they were important in terms of loss and they're important in terms of redemption. So I wanted to just put that on the record. In terms of this particular legislation, certainly on the first truth and reconciliation day, it was a particularly meaningful day.

And I know that the now- Premier and I had ti me to spend together across the street in Memorial Park at a sacred fire and then also we were at St. John 's Park as well. We were participating in the ceremony there, and of course it was quite an amazing day, when there were literally thousands of people in orange shirts who were there for that first day. Very, very –it was moving. There was people from, I would say, all walks of life, all different backgrounds who were there expressing both their emotional support, some had, of course, personal stories.

The Premier, I think, partici pated in the ceremonies, as well, and that was very significant. I want to acknowl edge this parti cular piece of legislation as being im portant, as being impactful, I think, for our com munity and for Manitobans more generally. And certainly our hope will be that on the day that is recognized for remembrance, that people will take that op portunity to reflect and to remember and to participate in whatever ceremonies there might be to participate in on that particular day in their individual communities; that it not just become another holiday.

Not that individuals, you know, won' t have other things to do, but it 's im portant that they take some amount of time during that day, whether it 's at a formal ceremony or in a more private way, to reflect upon the meaning of the day. So I want to –again, we' re looking forward to seeing this bill move on to, I think, with leave, com - mittee tonight, but to recognize over the last number of years the recognition of this day; although it wasn't a statutory holiday, certainly there was thousands of Manitobans who partici pated in different ways and recognized the importance of it.

On the first day that we had, I recall in the evening after leaving St. John' s Park, coming back to the Legislature–and it happened to be–that day happens to be my son's birthday as well. So, my son spent the day with me in St.

John' s Park, and we came back to the Legislature and we climbed to the roof, as some members sometimes might do, and we had us some, you know, good time of discussion, reflection, sort of looking over Memorial Park and some of the things were still happening there, and just discussing a bit about the history of residential schools, mistakes that were made, things that co uld be learned from those things.

And, you know, it was an im portant, I think, moving day for him and for me, and a learning day for him and for me, and I suspect that the recognition of it in this way will allow for even greater under - standing, and hopefully more reflection. I mean, that would be our hope, is that it really becomes a day where people take the oppor tunity to reflect upon some of the lessons that need to be learned and so that history doesn't repeat itself. So, I appreciate the Premier bringing forward this particular piece of legislation.

We've had it at different times over the last few years, in the different roles that we've played we 've had some discussions about this and I 've always ap preciated the heart in which he' s brought forward these issues in non- political but im- portant ways. And we look forward to this bill, I think, with leave, going into committee tonight. The Speaker: Seeing no further speakers, is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. The Speaker: The question before the House is second reading of Bill 4, The Employment Standards Code Amendment and

Interpretation Amendment Act (Orange Shirt Day). Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] The motion is accordingly passed. House Business Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): On House busi ness, could you please canvass the House to see if there is leave to waive rule 92(7) so that bill 7, the Em ployment Standards Code amend ment–4. Jesus, sorry–and inter pretation amendment act, Orange Shirt Day, can be sent to the Standing Com mittee on Social and Economic Development tonight, despite there being presenters registered to speak.

318 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2023 The Speaker: Is there leave to waive rule 92(7) so that Bill 4, The Employment Standards Code Amend- ment and Inter pretation Amendment Act (Orange Shirt Day), can be sent to the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Dev elopment tonight, despite there being presenters registered to speak? [Agreed] Leave has been granted.

MLA Fontaine: I would like to introduce, in addition to the bill previously referred, that Bill 4, The Em - ployment Standards Code Amendment and Inter pre- tation Amendment Act (Orange Shirt Day), will also be considered at the December 4th, 2023, meeting of the Standing Com mittee on Social and Economic Development. * (15:00) The Speaker: It has been announced, in addition to the bill previously referred, that Bill 4, the employment standards code amend ment inter preta- tion amendment act, Orange Shirt Day , will also be considered at the December 4, 2023, meeting of the Standing Com mittee on Social and Economic Development. * * * The Speaker: We will now move to report stage amendments on Bill 3.

REPORT STAGE AMENDMENTS Bill 3–The Fuel Tax Amendment Act (Fuel Tax Holiday) Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister of Finance): I move, seconded by member for Notre Dame (MLA Marcelino), that Bill 3 be amended – [interjection] I move, seconded by Minister Marcelino–[interjection] Thank you. We ready? We'll do it again this time. I move, seconded by the Minister for Labour and Immigration, THAT Bill 3 be amended by replacing Clause 2 with the following: 2

Section 1 is amended by adding the following definition: "tax holiday" means the peri od beginning on January 1, 2024, and ending on June 30, 2024, or a later date prescribed by regulation. The Speaker: The honourable Minister of Finance. MLA Sala: And I 'll add, période d' exonération [exemption period]. The Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable– An Honourable Member: Dispense. The Speaker: Dispense.

MLA Sala: You know, we've had a lot of oppor tun- ities to speak about the importance of this bill in the House, and I am grateful for another op portunity to offer some more words here at this stage of this bill moving through the House. We know that so many Manitobans have struggled for years with very high energy bills, inflation and increased costs at the pump. And, you know, the experience that Manitobans have had for so many years is that they had a gov ernment that wasn't focused on responding to those issues. And we 're very proud to bring forward these changes and to bring this bill forward.

These small amendments that have been brought forward today, I'm looking forward to speaking about how they strengthen and improve the bill, and this particular change is a very minor change here, this amendment, which removes the word roadway to eliminate any confusion about who could and could not access the benefits of this bill. The Speaker: Are there any further speakers? None– oh, sorry. MLA Jeff Bereza (Portage la Prairie): It was my first opportunity to speak at committee the other night and realize the impact that we as opposition can have on some of these bills.

One of the amendments that we looked at for over an hour and a half was the word roadway. And again, we saw that there was holes in this bill, and we talked to a number of ag producers and industry groups that echoed those concerns at com mittee. And the y, too, deserved a tax break on marked gasoline and propane as well, too. Also, we talked for a number of time also on section–sorry, on clause 6(12.2), where it was reported as a motor vehicle on a roadway, a motor vehicle registered as a farm truck und er The Drivers and Vehicles Act and firefighting equipment by municipality or local government district.

Again, we heard from many speakers out there of how important it was to take some of this away. As farmers, they don 't get the op portunity to drive their equipment on the roadways. Most of the time, their equipment and the money that they spend on fuel is done in the field to take off those crops.

December 4, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 319 The other part of it as well, too, was firefighting– again, I 'm reading from the bill before it was amended: 12.2(

c) firefighting equipment by munici - pality or local government. We heard from a number of munici palities out there that rely on people like our great Hutterite com- munities to be able to fight fires and have been able to save lives. The Hutterite colonies, with things like their heart, that have saved lives, have found people that have been missing for years. All those–although some people might think of these as very small amend ments, I can tell you, on Friday afternoon my phone rang steady on my ride home of how im portant these amendments were that affect the affordability for Manitobans.

And the other thing that was important for it and where these amendments are so clear is it 's about all Manitobans now. A lot of Manitobans felt left out, and with this being moved–with these small amendments, as what were said here by the minister, were moved forward, these were really tremendously large amend- ments that are affecting our agriculture community as well as all Manitobans. So, again, with that, thank you very much your time. MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Honour- able Speaker, I am going to be supporting this legis - lation, but I do believe it is a weak piece of legislation.

And the reason that I say that is it feels rushed. Honourable Speaker, having it debated through the House here, having it brought through com mittee, listening to what Manitobans had to say about the legislation at committee, whether that be online, even here as MLAs spoke about it in the House, enough time was not put in into the writing of this legislation. Enough people, enough Manitobans, they were not consulted in the development of this legislation. And because of the costs behind it, I believe a whole lot more of Manitobans should have been consulted in the creation of it. We saw this.

It was evident just with the wording alone in the legislation. The fact that the minister had to bring forward three of his own amend ments– whether they were based off the recom mendation of opposition MLAs or not, the fact that he had to bring in three of his own amendments shows how rushed the legislation, in fact, was, Honourable Speaker. I also just think about the point of this legislation– at least what the NDP says the point is, is to help with affordability.

And realistically, those in Manitoba who need the most assist ance with affordability are likely not the Manitobans driving vehicles, Honour - able Speaker. I think that this bill will help many Manitobans, and that's why, again, I am going to be supporting the legislation, but I don't believe that the NDP should be saying that this bill is about affordability when really those who need the assistance the most are not going to be helped by the legislation. Honourable Speaker, this was a campaign promise. Again, it's going to help some, but I think– The Speaker: Order.

I'd ask the member from Tyndall Park to please stick to talking about the amendment, not the bill as a whole. MLA Lamoureux: I apologize, Honourable Speaker. Sometimes when you start talking about really impor- tant legislation, you delve deep into it. I'll leave my remarks at that. Thank you. The Speaker: No further debate? Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. The Speaker: Question before the House is the adoption of Bill 3–the first amend ment to Bill 3, the fuel tax amendment, fuel tax holiday, act, moved by the Minister of Finance (MLA Sala).

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] MLA Sala: I move, seconded by the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage and Tourism, THAT Bill 3 be amended in Clause 5 by replacing the proposed

section 8.2 with the following: Temporary reduction following tax holiday 8.2 Despite

section 8, the rate of tax payable for fuel that is subject to the tax holiday under

section 12.2 may be reduced by regulation for any period beginning after June 30, 2024, and ending before January 1, 2025. * (15:10)

320 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2023 The Speaker: It has been moved by the honour able Minister of Finance (MLA Sala), seconded by the Minister of Sport, Culture, Heritage and Tourism (Mr. Simard), THAT the proposed amendment to Bill 3 is–be amended in Clause 5 by replacing the proposed

section 8.2 with the following– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. The Speaker: Dispense. The amendment is in order. The floor is open. The honourable Minister of Finance. Oh, one minute before –I just like to remind everybody that while we're having this debate, it 's to focus specifically on the amendment, not on the bill itself. MLA Sala: This, again, is another amendment we brought forward to ensure that there is no confusion about who is able to access the benefits of this bill.

We did hear from some com munity members that were concerned about that, even though we were quite clear that this bill would benefit all Manitobans. The small changes made in this clause will help to ensure that there is no confusion that this fuel tax holiday will be available to all Manitobans. MLA Bereza: First of all, my apologies for not following the rules. I–my mistake on that. I would like to, when we do talk about 8.2–and, again, not minor amendments when we talk about the amount of economy that is being affected here.

By taking out the words mo tor vehicle on the roadway; again that gives the opportunity for this to be included with boats, with RVs, with off-road vehicles. Again, it gives –again, it eliminates a lot of the confusion that was first part of this bill. Again, I thank you for the opportunity for being able to participate in the com mittee. And even though we went on for a long period of time, again, it was about making things good for all Manitobans out there, and affordable out there. The firefighting equipment, it was agai n a big piece of that that needed to come out of this legis - lation.

And where us, as a party, fought hard on this and as a PC team, fought hard on this, was to make sure that all Manitobans could feel safe and that we weren't taking out people with firefighting equipment by munici pal–or we were taking out firefighting equipment by munici pality or local gov ernment district. So, people wouldn't have to be worried about whether they could go to a fire or whether they were going to be taken care of or not during this tax bill – reduction bill. We wanted to make sure that we could make this very clear to everyone.

And I think by removing this and the amendment that was brought forward by our team, has 'jone' just that. Thank you. The Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. The Speaker: The question before the House is second reading of report –the question before the House is the second report stage amend ment for Bill 3, the fuel tax amendment, fuel tax holiday. Is it the will of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] MLA Sala: I would like to move, seconded by the Minister for Advanced Education and Training, THAT Bill 3 be amended in Clause 6 by replacing the proposed

section 12.2 with the following: Temporary exemption–tax holiday 12.2 No tax is payable during the tax holiday by a buyer of gasoline, diesel or natural gas that is subject to a rate of tax set under clause 8(d.1), (f.1) or (g). The Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. The Speaker: Dispensed. The motion is in order. The floor is now open for debate. MLA Sala: Again, this third and final amendment was brought forward to make a change that we knew was important to community members that we spoke with, and specifically will allow us to ensure we fulfill the Premier's (Mr.

Kinew) commitment, which was to reduce fuel taxes from 14 to zero on all gasoline in Manitoba. MLA Bereza: This was not a small amendment. And again, was very near and dear to our hearts when we think about affordability needed on this, and clarity needed on this. This was the point where, now all fuels –dyed fuel, diesel fuel –were part of this. Again, it was needing some clarity there, and we heard that from

December 4, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 321 groups that spoke that day, whether it be the Snoman group, agriculture groups, whoever it may be. Again, there was some confusion in this, and we needed to bring forward to make sure that this was spelled out properly, that all different fuels were in there. We still believe that we're missing one part of that that is very im portant, and that being propane that is not included in this here.

Propane, again, is used heavily by farmers as well as people that are using busses and things like that, and there is a differe nt delivery mechanism that is used for home heating than there is for filling a bus, and we thought that was an important part to have in there. So, thank you very much for your time. The Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. The Speaker: The question before the House is the third amendment to Bill 3, The Fuel Tax Amendment Act. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] The motion is accordingly passed.

We will–now that the amendments have passed, we will now move on to the third reading and concurrence of Bill 3, The Fuel Tax Amendment Act (Fuel Tax Holiday) CONCURRENCE AND THIRD READINGS– AMENDED BILLS Bill 3–The Fuel Tax Amendment Act (Fuel Tax Holiday) Hon.

Adrien Sala (Minister of Finance): I move, seconded by the Minister of Education, that Bill 3, The Fuel Tax Amend ment Act (Fuel Tax Holiday); Loi modifiant la Loi–sur la taxe sur les carburants (période d'exonération de la taxe sur les carburants), reported from the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development, and subsequently amended, be concurred in and be now read for a third time and passed. Motion presented. The Speaker: Are there any speakers?

MLA Sala: Again, it's a great honour to be able to bring this bill forward that will help to save Manitobans money at a time when they 're really in need of those supports. Again, as we've said, we've gone long enough in this province with a previous gov ernment that wasn't willing to bring supports and assistance to Manitobans who are struggling with high energy prices. We are very pleased to have moved swiftly to bring these savings to Manitobans, hopefully on January 1st.

We, on this side of the House, implore the members opposite to get on board, support and help to reduce the cost of living for Manitobans, some thing we didn't see from them for seven years. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. The Speaker: Are there any other speakers? MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I'm happy to rise and speak to third reading of The Fuel Tax Amendment Act. * (15:20) Honourable Speaker, the gov ernment says that this is going to help Manitobans, but the reality is it's only going to help some Manitobans.

It's going to help Manitobans who can, in fact, drive vehicles, who can and use t heir vehicles on a daily basis here in the province. But again, the reality is many Manitobans do not drive vehicles, and this piece of legis lation does not help these individuals what soever, Hon ourable Speaker. The legislation is weak. It feels rushed. We heard this at committee. We've heard this over social media. We've seen it in the papers. We've talked about it here in the Chamber, Honourable Speaker. The legis lation is being pushed through and diligence was not done in the creation of it.

We know this because the minister himself had to bring forward three amendments over the time span of one week. If he had done his homework from the beginning these amendments would have been part of the original legislation. Legislation is im portant. Words are im portant. People needed to be consulted in the province of Manitoba in the making of this legis lation, Honour- able Speaker, and I 'm glad that the amend ments are being made. I think that they are a result of opposition members, as well as those who came out to com mit- tee. But it should have been done from the get go.

The most im portant part of this legis lation is supposedly about affordability. And, again, this is something the NDP, they campaigned on during the election. Th ey said that they were going to bring

322 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2023 forward this legis lation because it was going to put more money in the pockets of Manitobans. But it doesn't, in fact, help any Manitobans who are likely in need of the most assitance right now, Honourable Speaker. Again, it helps those of us who drive vehicles –who regularly drive vehicles. And that's wonderful, and that 's why I will be supporting the legislation. But I think it is a weak piece of legis lation and I expect better from this government. Thank you.

MLA Jeff Bereza (Portage la Prairie): It was this government, this PC government, when we talk about affordability, that brought historical affordability in $5,500 a year to our people in Manitoba here. That is 22 times more than the $250 that we'll see if a person is driving one vehicle. PCs were the fi rst to raise concerns that not all fuel were included and that all Manitobans deserve tax fairness. It was the NDP who mocked us, who mocked Manitobans, and then took these amendments as their own. And there 's still time to make this legis lation better because the amend ments still don 't go far enough.

Just today the Canadian Federation of Inde pen- dent Business called again for propane to be added to this bill. According to the Canadian Fe deration of Independent Busi ness monthly busi ness barometer, 88 percent of agri-business says fuel and energy costs are the number one cost constraints to their business. The NDP are also flip -flopping on their fake hydro freeze, so this is their only true affordability policy, but it's only for six months. High costs and inflation are largely due to the NDP-Liberal carbon tax, and it will still be an issue in six months to a year's time.

Again, when I stood up, along with my –along with our Fina nce Minister –[interjection]–critic– sorry–thank you for that–it was very important for us to make sure that we were supporting all Manitobans, that we wanted to see the changes in this so it would be clear that all Manitobans were going to take advantage of this. It was also important that we talked about different fuel delivery systems that could be used out there. It was also important that we were able to make sure that safety was part of this, with fire departments being able to be used with this. Mr.

Speaker, I'm happy to say that our PC team was there to raise these concerns after hearing from the people out there, and that not all fuel types, as I said before, were part of that, and now they are. But there is still time for us to be including propane in this. Thank you very much. The Speaker: Seeing no further speakers, is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. The Speaker: Question before the House is concurrence and third reading of Bill 3, The Fuel Tax Amendment Act (Fuel Tax Holiday). Is it the will of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] The motion is passed. Hon.

Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): Would you please call Bill 5, The Adult Literacy Act, for second reading, please. The Spe aker: Been announced by the Gov ernment House Leader that we will now call Bill 5, The Adult Literacy Act, for second reading. SECOND READINGS (Continued) Bill 5–The Adult Literacy Act Hon. Renée Cable (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): I move, seconded by the Minister of Education and early learning, that Bill 5, The Adult Literacy Act, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of the House.

Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor has been advised of the bill, and I table the message. The Speaker: Has been moved by the honour able Minister of Advanced Education and Training, seconded by the Minister of Education, that Bill 5, The Adult Literacy Act, be now read a second time and referred to a committee of this House. Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor has been advised of the bill, and the message has been tabled. MLA Cable: It is such a pleasure to rise in the House to talk about adult literacy.

As I mentioned earlier, there is nobody in this House that cares more about adult literacy than the folks on this side.

December 4, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 323 We understand what an in credible op portunity we have for Manitobans here to really put into place a plan that will help ensure that as many people as possible get good, family -supporting jobs in this province. This bill supports adult numeracy and literacy programming, and will help adult learners to improve their lives, build their foundational skills and increase participation in their com munities and society.

So in this bill I'm not just thinking about the adult learners, but I'm thinking about the genera tion coming behind them that will now see that there are opportunities for growth at any age. I–thinking about parents and grandparents who haven't had the oppor tunity to read their childr en stories at night, who haven 't had the oppor tunity to really engage in the world in a meaningful way and who will now have the oppor tunity to build a –more colourful, fruitful lives for their families.

This bill establishes and sets the operating and funding parameters for adult literacy programs, and provides the flexibility for eligible organi zations to deliver adult numeracy and literacy pro gramming. One of the first things I heard upon taking this position as the Minister of Advanced Edu cation and Training is that under the previous gov ernment, a number of initiatives were cancelled, including a requirement to lay out a framework and report on successes or perhaps some challenges in post-secondary and adult literacy programming.

So what we've said right away is that we want to be open, we want to be transparent and we want to be able to show the communities that we're a government that listens and takes action. So in intro ducing this legislation, we're signalling to the broader community that we're ready and we hear you. I look around here, and on our side of the House, I have a colleague who is an educator in the Wayfinders program, which enables folks to work through some challenges in their lives and find a path that will s uit them in their pursuits of education.

My dear friend sitting behind me, who I see on the camera–two of them, actually, have worked with students who have additional learning needs and who maybe have a struggle to get what they need from regular K-to-12 programming.

In an ideal world, we keep those kids in school and we allow them to reach their full potential. * (15:30) However, we know that there are challenges that folks face in pursuing education, and sometimes they're not able to receive t he skills that they need in regular K-to-12 programming, which is why we need to make sure that there are safety nets for them, that there are programs that they can go to, following that window of time, to make sure that they can access the skills that they need. I'm thinking about people that I met on the campaign trail.

A family from Syria, for example, who came here five years ago, and the parents are still unable to seek meaningful employment because their English proficiency is not quite where it n eeds to be. We need to make sure that those folks have every op- portunity possible to build the life that we promised them in Canada and to help them receive the skills that they need.

Part of this legislation is also going to ensure that there are standards and that, when we are supporting programs and different providers, that we create a framework that will ensure that they're adhering to the standards that we need folks to finish with, that when we–that we have markers in place to be able to note the successes, to be able to challenge some of the places where we aren't as successful as we need to be.

Measuring progress is so im portant and not so that I can stand up here and tout only great things –and I know there will be great things happening–but also so that we can be accountable and, you know, whether it's quarterly or biannually or annually, that we're able to look and say, yes, this is a suc cessful program; students are getting what they need. We are seeing great progress in our com munities; we have more people than ever working in good, family -supporting jobs because they received the training that they needed. I have a statistic here.

In 2022-2023, 41 per cent– hear this–41 per cent of adult learners self -identified as Indigenous. So what this tells me is that this act here is supporting the reconciliation work that is ongoing with this side of the House, ongoing with this government, that we're acknowledging that there are a disproportionate number of people for whom K-to-12 education has failed them. They weren 't able to find the success that they needed to find in the regular K-to-12 programming. We're going to make sure that when they come out of it, that they still have a path forward.

Those–as I mentioned, the challenges can be multifaceted. Sometimes it is remote commu nities; they weren 't able to access the edu cation that they

324 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2023 needed. Sometimes–I think of my own family. My mom had me when she was 16 years old. She was able to complete high school, but it was incred ibly challenging. And I know that for young moms, in particular, the prospect of going to regular K -to-12 programming, to be in a regular high school with all of the challenges that come about with it, while building those connections with their young ones, finding ways to put groceries on the table, all of those challenges mean that so many students are not able to complete their high school diploma.

And what this will ensure is that when we 're out –when that moment is past, where we're no longer in a high school setting, that students have a second chance. And if there 's anything that I think that we can hang our hats on, on this side of the House, is that we are absolutely the government of second chances. Our Premier (Mr. Kinew) is living proof of that.

I can look at every one of the people on this side of the House and know that we have stories, just as other members on the other side have, as well, moments in time where maybe we took a path that we ought not have taken or we didn't have the op portunity to make the decision that we should have. And this will ensure that those people have the opportunity to continue on building a great life. An Honourable Member: It's too bad they cut it. MLA Cable: It's too bad.

As I mentioned earlier, adult literacy pro gram- ming also supports English as addi tional language learners who currently make up one quarter of program parti cipants. So supporting new comers in improving their English literacy and numeracy will support them in settling into their c ommunities and finding good jobs. We have a lot of folks. Just this weekend, I was at a wonderful event for– with the Asian Women of Winnipeg, tre mendous folks over there, women who have one, two, three post-secondary degrees.

Some–one woman had four master's degrees and a Ph.D. and was still unable to find appropriate work for her because of the English language skills. We need to make sure that we have all of the supports possible to make sure that the life that we have promised folks when they mov e to Canada, that they are able to achieve it. And I know that under the previous admin - istration a number of cuts were made to these programs and reporting out was done away with. And what we're saying is that we value this programming.

We value the people who provide it, and we value the families who are relying on it to make sure that they have good family-supporting jobs. In 2022- 23 there were 26 funded adult literacy programs in 43 locations across the province, supporting 1,250 Manitobans on their path to better opportunities. This number was down from 1,991 between 2016 and 2017. So there was a drastic decrease in enrolment and completion of adult educa- tion in that time period. There was decreased access, and as we've heard continually, the ability for folks to accessing–access the programs they 've–they need became more difficult.

Program supports were –funding was cut. Positions were left vacant for co-ordinating roles, and overall it became much more difficult for families in need to find the supports that they needed. We know, thinking about all of the things that have happened during COVID -19 and post - COVID-19, we see social unrest, we see challenges in our neighbourhoods with different pieces. And so much of what we see in terms of spread of misinformation, lack of understanding, and really this new world of unfavourable conversations; so much of it is rooted in a lack of education and understanding.

So, one of the things that we can do, not only to ensure that individuals have access to good jobs, can support their families, but to ensure that we do all we can to keep our civil society healthy, is to increase access to education. You know, I don't know if you, for other folks in here, if you fall down the rabbit holes of social media that I do, but the amount of information that is spread as fact is alarming; without being sourced, without having any sort of concrete evidence attached to it.

And part of the spread of that infor mation and the prevalence of spreading that in formation is rooted in a real lack of under standing and comprehension and critical thinking. So I know that one of the things that I have as a goal in this role, in this de partment, is to ensure that we really put a strong value on critical thinki ng, not only for protec tion of civil society at large, but for individuals.

So, individuals: I think of somebody like my grandmother, who may be more vul nerable to online scams and misinformation simply because she does not have a base under standing of how information is spread on social media.

December 4, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 325 And, you know, we know that not every player in news is a good player. We know that there are folks who really have advantage by spreading misinformation and trying to take advantage of people. So part of what this legislation does is ensure that the education of people is raised to a point where they really understand what they 're reading, why they're reading it, where it's coming from and who is ultimately accountable if the information is false. So I want to talk a little bit about my kids for a second.

So, I think about my own childhood and how I learned to read. And I was, as I mentioned before, I had a whole community of people raising me. I had–I lived in a home with my mom and my auntie and my grandma, and my step -grandpa at a later time; an uncle and another aunt. And, you know, like many kids, I learned how to read by looking at the cereal box in the morning and reading the milk carton. * (15:40) And as I got older, I took the city bus in Brandon with my grandma. My nana and I would go downtown. She volunteered at the women 's resource centre–and we would take the city bus.

And I remember sounding out words on the bus and, you know, I had a wonderful coach with me. And I was, at the time, three. So I was reading proficiently by three and a half, but that 's because I had a coach beside me who was helping me sound it out, who was providing context, who was turning my eyes away from things that I shouldn' t be reading, to be honest, because at that time with the bus ads in the Brandon city transit, some of the things that they were advertising, not necessarily for kids. But my –I remember learning how to read by travelling around with my nana, and then later at preschool.

I was lucky to go to Beginnings Preschool in Brandon. We had a phenomenal program there, and part of our pro gramming every day was literacy and phonetics. At that time, it was phonetics, so you– because I'm not that young, you–we would sound it out. So it was looking at the dif ferent letters and the vowel sounds that were made and the consonant sounds that were made, and really learning those base structures in English language.

So, if you consider that at three and a half, I had that base under standing, that by the time that I was five, we could drive down any major street in Brandon and I knew that, you know, not just because of the big M, but I could read the word; I know that 's a McDonald's; I know that the big burger is the Burger King. So many things that we take for granted by having basic literacy skills, I want you to think about for a second what that would be like, as somebody who didn't have strong language skills, how challenging it would be to navigate this world.

I need to take out $20 to buy a pizza; how do I us e the bank machine? What do I do here? How do–I need a drivers licence; how do I find my way to the de partment of motor vehicles? How do I fill out the forms? There are–for folks who have high literacy and who have the privilege of being in an environm ent through elementary, junior high and high school to receive the edu cation that they need, we take it for granted.

But, you know, I'm thinking about, when I look at the–what adult literacy will do for folks, I think of the recipient this year of the adult literacy award, and her goal, her sole goal was to be able to read to her grandkids at night. So think about that, that, you know, a simple goal of reading a story and being able to sit down and provide care and love and connection with your grandchild, or your child. For many folks, it's their own children. I am very lucky to live in a diverse community of Windsor Park. We have so many new comers, including the Syrian family that I spoke of.

The high school children act as interpreters on every thing, so they will take their parents to Manitoba Hydro to pay the bill. They will take their parents to the department of motor vehicles for their licensing. The–this–when I talk to people, it 's often, you know, mom or dad will answer the door and smile nicely, and then will call the younger person over to help them with the language

interpretation. And even if I provide them with something written, there is, you know, the younger person does the translating. And I know, from speaking with those families, that there's nothing more that those parents would like than to be able to provide the infor mation that they need to provide to their kids and to be able to guide them in a meaningful way. So much of what we do as parents is interpreting and letting our kids know what is appro priate or not appropriate. And I want to be able to, as much as possible, give every parent that opportunity.

I'm thinking now, you're all along for the wild ride of how this brain of mine works. Now I 'm thinking about how much time I spend looking for a good deal

326 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2023 in my life, and how much that has been an advantage for me, that I can read a –you know, when the flyers come on Thursday –the Canstar–I can read the flyer, and I know where I can get the best possible price on bread, milk, eggs, cheese, school snacks, all of those things.

And that–if you don' t have financial literacy, if you don't have basic numeracy skills, that advantage that comes from being able to compare prices, to be able to compare different products and to really make your dollars stretch, you don 't have that op portunity, and you're trusting other people to discern for you. So not only is literacy–basic literacy skills–so im- portant, but those numeracy skills as well, being able to compare high and low, what's a good deal, what isn't; can we make ends meet this month?

And thinking about how much consid eration needs to be given to the infor mation that 's being shared if you don't have those basic skills. One of the great joys as a parent that I have witnessed is watching my mother -in-law read Harry Potter to my daughter. So they do this over Zoom –or FaceTime. They started it at the begin ning of the pandemic. My mother-in-law is in Saskatoon, and for a very long time–now my daughter's much more busy in sports; this doesn't happen as often–but every night they would log on together and grandma would read Harry Potter to my daughter.

And I can tell you that the language skills that my beautiful girl has are robust. Her selection of words, her way o f describing the world and colouring the world is incredible, and I know it is very much related to the time spent with grandma on FaceTime reading Harry Potter. It 's such –I can 't overemphasize how much literacy and numeracy matters to an individual and to their ability to navigate this world.

Not only in the basic level, where you 're keeping yourself and your children safe, but really leading a really colourful, robust life where you have the full ability to really maximize what this life is about. And especially in a place like Canada. We bring people here with the promise of building a great life. We promise them that they will be able to raise their families in a safe and productive way. We promise them good jobs.

We, you know, we open the doors in the way that only Canadians can, and I fully believe that part of our obligation to those people is to ensure that they are able to participate fully in our society. I will close by saying that it is a true honour to introduce this bill. My great -grandfather, like many men of his genera tion, was fully illiterate. And I would–when I was privileged enough to visit him in his home in St. Eustache over a weekend, I would read the Saturday Free Press to my pépère. And, you know, I never quite understood.

Now that I 'm older and, as I've just said, I understand how much literacy and numeracy colours a life and gives you that depth of understanding in the world. I didn't appreciate when I was younger quite what that meant to him, but looking back, it–I'm so sad that he didn't have those skills in his lifetime. My great - grandmother did all of his books for him; he worked for the railway, but she did every thing related to record-keeping. I believe the statutes of limitations have passed, and they've both passed, so I don't think I'm going to get in trouble for saying this–but she did the work for him.

Any of the paperwork that was required for him to have that job on the railway, that was on her plate and her desk, because he didn't have the skills. And I can tell you that I never thought less than– and I want to be clear –that because he couldn 't read and write, I never thought less than. But I am sad that he didn't have the opportunity to experience the world in the same way that she did. I will close by saying that, you know, we're going to do some consul tations with community groups on this bill, because they have a lot to say, especially Mr.

Jim Silver, who I thank for really bringing attention to this issue. Him and his colleagues have a lot of gre at ideas about the kinds of supports that families need in going through adult education. * (15:50) But I'll close by saying that when we get to third reading and through com mittee, that I hope that the members opposite fully support this bill in order to provide great programming for adults in the province. Questions The Speaker: A question period of up to 15 minutes will be held.

Questions may be addressed to the minister by any opposition or independent member in the following sequence: fir st question by the official opposition critic or designate; subsequent questions asked by critics or designates from recognized opposition parties; subsequent questions asked by each independent member; remaining questions asked by any opposition members. And no question or answer shall exceed 45 seconds.

December 4, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 327 Mr. Richard Perchotte (Selkirk): Thank you very much, Minister, for your comments. Having a relatable event makes it very easy for everybody to understand. I, too, have a relatable event. I worked in a machine shop with a new Canadian who came across, and that individual had dif ficulty even shopping for groceries. He would go in the store, and just trying to feed himself, he ended up buying cat food instead of tuna. He worked a number of different jobs, and in those jobs, it didn't allow him any time for school.

What do we have as an alternate delivery system for edu cation that will give everybody what they need? Hon. Renée Cable (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): I thank the honourable member for the comments and can appre ciate that that is –there are many people that are ex periencing the world in this way right now. And I can speak–personally what I would like to see is greater access, not –and more openness to accessing pr ogramming. I know that many of the workplaces now offer English language as soon as folks arrive here, but I completely–I'm on board with expanding that.

And hopefully through the consultative process there are solutions brought forward by folks in the community who are already doing this work. I look to the experts in– The Speaker: Minister's time has expired. MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I'd like to thank the member for bringing forward this legislation as well as con gratulate her on br inging forward her first piece of legis lation here in the House. I know it can be a very surreal feeling in the best way. My question for the member is: What should adult learning centres expect from this legislation?

MLA Cable: Thank you so much, I appre ciate the question. Adult learning centres should expect that there is a fulsome framework and strategy. For folks who are already delivering this programming in a robust way, they will see additional support from us.

For areas where we need more programming–and I'm thinking specifically about neighbourhoods where demographics are changing, where we're seeing more newcomers, where there has maybe been learning loss over COVID where folks have not been able to complete their studies in th e way that they expected, that we will continue to work with those communities to make sure that we bring those supports closer to home. Mr.

Perchotte: Honourable Speaker, a question to the minister: Is there an opportunity to expand this so we can do online training for the people working two or three jobs–can get the edu cation that they need, they can communicate in the community to make sure that not only the safety of what they do but their needs are being taken care of? MLA Cable: Thank you again, for the thoughtful question. Safety is paramount. I've–you know, a number of my good friends are involved with different labour unions.

So UFCW 832, for example, I know that they do a lot of translation work in terms of not only their collective agreement, but safety standards to ensure that the members on the floor that are working in those places understand the safety protocols. One of the motivations for this legis lation is to reduce barriers, and we know that people are working two and three jobs so that the prospect of leaving those places of employment to pursue adult educa tion in a meaningful way is a really difficult task. So we have begun conver sations about what are the alternative delivery mechanisms that we can work towards. Mrs.

Carrie Hiebert (Mor

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	43-1-11
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	43rd 1st hansardpdf 11.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	dff51d7d3ea27b493808130c78a503e589b49ee1

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