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February 23, 2016

41st Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2016-Feb-23 (PDF)

L139 - Tue 23 Feb 2016 / Mar 23 fév 2016

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Tuesday 23 February 2016 Mardi 23 février 2016

Orders of the Day

Waste-Free Ontario Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 favorisant un Ontario sans déchets

Introduction of Visitors

Wayne Wettlaufer

Oral Questions

Health care funding

Health care funding

Health care funding

Ontario budget

Health care funding

Climate change

Beverage alcohol sales

Health care funding

Special education

Family law

Health care funding

Hospital funding

Tourism

Health care funding

Manufacturing jobs

Visitor

Introduction of Visitors

Members’ Statements

Wind turbines

London public transit

Royal Victoria Regional Health Centre

Stu Schwartz

Automotive industry

Government and community services fair

Rural Ontario

ErinoakKids

Reports by Committees

Standing Committee on Government Agencies

Introduction of Bills

Transparency and Accountability in Government Contracting Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur la transparence et la responsabilisation en matière de marchés publics

Motions

Committee membership

Petitions

Health care funding

Dog ownership

Property taxation

Health care funding

Health care funding

Elder abuse

Health care

Missing persons

Realtors

Health care

Education funding

Adoption disclosure

Health care

Health care funding

Health care

Health care funding

Orders of the Day

Supporting Ontario’s First Responders Act (Posttraumatic Stress Disorder), 2016 / Loi de 2016 d’appui aux premiers intervenants de l’Ontario (état de stress post-traumatique)

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

Orders of the Day

Waste-Free Ontario Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 favorisant un Ontario sans déchets

Resuming the debate adjourned on February 18, 2016, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 151,

An Act to enact the Resource Recovery and Circular Economy Act, 2016 and the Waste Diversion Transition Act, 2016 and to repeal the Waste Diversion Act, 2002 / Projet de loi 151, Loi édictant la Loi de 2016 sur la récupération des ressources et l’économie circulaire et la Loi transitoire de 2016 sur le réacheminement des déchets et abrogeant la Loi de 2002 sur le réacheminement des déchets.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further debate?

Ms. Jennifer K. French: As always, I am pleased to have the opportunity to rise in this Legislature today to speak on behalf of my constituents in Oshawa and discuss Bill 151, the Waste-Free Ontario Act. I always look forward to what the government will title its next piece of legislation, and whenever I see that they have chosen something catchy like “Waste-Free Ontario Act,” I know that there will be some issues with it that they are hoping we somehow might overlook. We can all agree on the sentiment of creating a waste-fee Ontario—at least, I hope that we can—but we want to make sure that it is more than just a sentiment and there’s actually some substance there as well.

To break things down a little further, what we’re talking about today is updating an outdated system that was introduced by the Waste Diversion Act, 2002. That legislation was originally introduced with the intention to promote the reduction, reuse and recycling of waste, but as we know, progress has stalled under the current legislation as compared to other jurisdictions within Canada. The Waste Diversion Act, 2002, established a system of industry-funded organizations and stewardships with the intention of reducing waste and improving resource recovery. Unfortunately, the approach that was taken has been unsuccessful and overhaul is long overdue.

The NDP has long urged greater individual producer responsibility to replace the current system, and this bill allows for a transition to individual producer responsibility, though unfortunately it is vague in the details.

Before the government gets ahead of itself and officially declares Ontario waste-free, I will remind the chamber that this is merely enabling legislation. The success or failure of this act will depend on policies and regulations that have not yet been disclosed. As always with this government, the devil is in the details.

Despite its title, the Waste-Free Ontario Act has no legislated goal of a waste-free Ontario, although this bill does present a vision of the draft strategy. In fact, there is no timeline for when the transition to individual producer responsibility will be completed or even for when it will begin.

Speaker, I don’t want to be too cynical, as this bill does contain some positive steps forward, and on this side of the aisle we believe in giving credit where credit is due. But the government is also pretty good at congratulating itself and not quite so good at acknowledging its shortcomings, so somebody has to do it.

As I’ve already noted, we support building a waste-free Ontario, but we need to make sure that it is done right and it is done in a way that does not burden consumers or municipalities. That is difficult to guarantee when you’re dealing with legislation that leaves more questions than answers.

There are no timelines in this bill. Nothing changes, the day after this bill passes. Industry-funded organizations will still run our waste diversion programs and could keep running them for a long time. The NDP supports this bill’s promise of individual producer responsibility, but we will also seek amendments that guarantee that the government will actually follow through on their claimed goals for the bill.

I should also note that this is not the first we have heard about this change from the government. In fact, the government proposed individual producer responsibility back in 2008, and little has changed so far. Eight years seems like a long time to wait for legislation that only begins to establish a framework. But I am an optimist. We hope that the government has thought beyond the title of this legislation and is working diligently, as we speak, to address our concerns and the concerns of consumers and municipalities.

If you really do intend to work toward a waste-free Ontario, then you need to get the details right from the start. I hope that you are consulting with stakeholders and experts before we end up in another misguided and poorly structured system for the next 13 years.

Enough of the platitudes; let’s dive a little deeper into the legislation. On second thought, because this bill is more like a shallow pond, perhaps we will just wade in.

As I noted earlier, Bill 151 will open the door for a transition to a system of individual producer responsibility. Under individual producer responsibility, producers pay the full cost of the end-of-life management of their products and packaging, and are free to find creative ways to reduce waste. Under the existing system, however, both consumers and producers are trapped, and producers have no choice but to work with the stewardship monopolies. They have few incentives to find creative ways to reduce waste and packaging, and few incentives to improve the recoverability of their products.

What happens to consumers? They get stuck with eco fees that simply pass on costs from producers without creating incentives toward better and more environmentally responsible packaging.

There are significant economic opportunities and environmental benefits from waste reduction, reuse and recycling, but progress is stalled under the current system. If and when we receive further disclosure from the government on what the actual details of this legislation will look like, we can then, hopefully, start moving toward a more results-driven approach.

What we see in the bill as it stands is that producers will be granted the flexibility to implement different solutions, as long as they fulfill provincial requirements. This means that competition and creativity will be encouraged, and we will all be better off for it. When you provide an organization with the right motivation, it is amazing what discoveries can be made. I hope that we will see, in the near future, a lot more packaging with labels that might say, “Now with 50% less plastic.” A girl can dream, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker, we are here talking about Bill 151, the Waste-Free Ontario Act. We are here debating waste management. We’ve been talking about individual producer responsibility, and I will be going in depth into what I hope will be a new waste and waste-reduction framework that will address the concerns of municipalities across the province. However, I would be remiss if I didn’t point out the fact that this is a government that knows all too well about waste.

Let’s imagine a true waste-free Ontario, or rather a government-waste-free Ontario. Imagine what Ontario could look like if the Liberals hadn’t wasted billions on scandals. Instead of Ornge, money could have been invested in infrastructure and transportation. Imagine the strength in public services and systems we might have had if the Liberals hadn’t wasted heaps of money on eHealth. The government cancelled gas plants and, as a result, is now cancelling services and cutting home care and health care.

If this government was able to manage its own waste, businesses and families across the province might still be able to afford their hydro bills and keep their lights on. But alas, Mr. Speaker, this government has instead laid waste the trust and money that Ontarians have given them, and now they are recklessly selling off Hydro One.

Government waste is piling up, and Ontarians are left to clean up the mess, time and time again. I know we can’t turn back the clock or reclaim the billions of dollars the government has effectively incinerated, but as we move forward, I hope this government will indeed get a handle on its own waste management.

But I digress. Let’s talk about this new framework. We also hope that the new framework will address some of the concerns of municipalities, who share our concerns about legislation that is full of potential but thin on the details. For example, Bill 151 does not guarantee that municipal blue box costs will go down. The provincial government has already downloaded too many costs onto municipalities, and we want to make sure that this bill does not needlessly add to the burden on those municipalities.

Municipalities have been burdened enough under the current system, and we want to make sure that some relief is on the way. For too long, they have seen costs shifted in their direction. Even with Bill 151, they are still looking at a transition period that may take three to five years. Don’t forget, there is no timeline included for when the transition to individual producer responsibility will be completed, or even for when it will begin.

Ultimately, whether the changes will even be effective or not will depend on the regulations to come, and this is a big concern for municipalities as well. Unlike this Liberal government, municipalities like to think long-term, and it is pretty difficult to plan when the majority of the details are still to be determined. I hope that the government has listened to the concerns presented by those municipalities. I know that I’m not the first to outline these concerns to them, so hopefully repetition will be a powerful tool.

I know that my local municipality, the region of Durham, has shared its concerns with this legislation with the government, and since this government tends to need to hear things more than once, I am pleased to reiterate some of them today. I will start by reading an excerpt of a resolution that was sent to the Premier from the regional municipality of Durham earlier this month:

“Whereas waste materials can become valuable resources and enhanced producer responsibility could provide significant environmental benefits should producers be encouraged to innovate to reduce waste, develop more easily recycled packaging, and work with municipalities to enhance and/or fund enhanced options for the collection and processing of waste materials;

“Whereas municipalities have no control over the form of municipal solid waste generated from packaging and products entering their jurisdiction, and yet municipal taxpayers continue to bear greater than 50% of the costs for the disposal and recycling of packaging and print materials that circulate within their waste streams;

“Whereas producer responsibility provides that producers bear responsibility for 100% of the costs of designated wastes and their end-of-life management and municipalities should not bear any net cost for the management of these materials which are becoming increasingly complex and expensive to recycle, reclaim and/or dispose of;

“Therefore

be it resolved that the regional municipality of Durham calls on the Ontario government to ensure the proposed Waste-Free Ontario Act, Bill 151, results in legislation which not only replaces the current Waste Diversion Act to ensure full producer responsibility, but that in order to ensure service levels to Ontario residents are equal to or better than existing service levels provided.”

Speaker, as you can see, Durham region’s concerns are pretty clear and, as I understand, are shared by municipalities across the province. Basically, they want to ensure that producers are given the proper incentives to ensure that the legislation is actually effective and that municipalities, and subsequently the taxpayers they represent, are not left as the backstop for any grey areas or gaps in legislation.

It wouldn’t be the first time that this government has downloaded costs onto municipalities and left them to scramble to find the funds, so I think that their concerns are well founded. Just because you’ve gotten away with it in the past, though, doesn’t mean that you will forever.

Durham region has also expressed concerns with some of the ambiguity in the legislation, such as the lack of a legislated role for municipalities under the proposed act, meaning that “municipalities may find themselves negotiating with producers as service providers rather than having a predetermined, regulated role.” Durham stressed this concern further with the following request:

“While the province commits to continued collaboration, it is hoped the implementation of the Waste-Free Ontario Act and forthcoming detailed legislation and associated regulations will respect concerns already voiced by municipalities. A key concern highlighted is that the province needs to ensure the integrity of integrated municipal waste services and associated environmental benefits, while implementing a legislated full cost recovery framework for municipal waste services.”

This further supports our primary concern with Bill 151: It is just enabling legislation, and we want the details. Now I know that this government hates details. Details usually get this government in trouble and often result in some negative media coverage, and more recently in OPP investigations. But details are important. They’re how we ensure that what you’re saying and what you’re doing align, and what should happen and what does happen are indeed one and the same. But for now, we wait.

In the meantime, we hope that our concerns are heard, as are the concerns of municipalities across Ontario and all stakeholders that will be affected by this legislation. It’s not always knowing the most that’s important; sometimes, it’s knowing who knows the most that counts.

Just to summarize, I will include some of the concluding remarks, again from Durham region’s report:

“The impact of the province’s proposed legislation and regulations on municipal solid waste management program costs and property taxes remains unclear.

“Since the introduction of the existing Waste Diversion Act, 2002, municipal taxpayers have continued to fund the majority of the capital and operating costs for diversion programs (collection, processing, haulage marketing and disposal), as well as the operating and capital costs of residual garbage waste collection and disposal.

“Over the years, municipalities have created increasingly efficient waste systems that are integrated and include co-collection, commingled waste streams, long-term contracts with private sector partners, partnerships across municipal jurisdictions and vast investments in capital infrastructure.

“There are significant service and financial risks associated with potential waste program fragmentation, contractual obligations, additional administrative burden, and future direction related to existing capital assets or transfer station infrastructure. Stranded or underfunded assets and operations are a potential risk to municipalities and the municipal property taxpayers. Even under a fully funded blue box framework, costs for the integrated collection and processing of other waste streams, including organics and residual waste, would still be borne by municipalities.

“Any proposed changes to legislation must consider system-wide impacts to municipal cost structures and capital investments, including existing contracts and investments related to the current provincial funding regime, as well as other short- and long-term contracts between municipalities and the private sector related to the ongoing integrated collection, processing, haulage and disposal of municipal solid waste.”

While that might be a lot to digest, we do hope that the government is listening. Municipalities such as Durham region will be among the most affected by the legislation, so we hope the government recognizes the impact this will have and takes the time to get it right the first time.

While we’re pleased by the government’s interest in creating a waste-free Ontario, we remain perplexed by the inconsistencies and contradictions within their policies, such as trying to limit the amount of garbage that is created and yet send the remainder to the incinerators that the Ministry of Energy has a policy of supporting. There is an incinerator in the process of opening in Durham region, in fact, and while it met all the standards set out by the government of Ontario, it did not manage to meet the increased standards as established by the regional municipality.

I applaud the region of Durham for recognizing that this government’s standards were too low and hope that they will take it as a sign that perhaps they need to take another look at their policies. But by all means, I’m sure that creating a truly waste-free Ontario is top priority.

Perhaps we should be accustomed to this government saying one thing today and then doing another by now, but the people of Ontario sent us here to hold this government accountable, and so we’re doing just that.

In conclusion, we appreciate the government’s intentions with this bill and hope to see the substance to follow. We’re all on board for reducing waste in Ontario, but we want to make sure that it’s done the right way and that the burden isn’t passed on to consumers or municipalities. By putting incentives in the right place, we can make some really positive changes that will benefit everyone involved.

That is why the NDP has long urged the government to pursue greater individual producer responsibility to replace the current system, and we hope that the regulations that follow this bill will continue to advance this purpose. Before the government gets ahead of itself and officially declares Ontario waste-free, I will once again remind the chamber that this is merely enabling legislation and the success or failure of this act will depend on policies and regulations that have yet to be disclosed. As always with this government, the devil is in the details.

Speaker, I have appreciated the opportunity to speak to this bill today, to offer my thoughts and the thoughts of those who will be affected by this bill. I look forward to supporting this legislation and hope that the regulations actually do help us to reach the goal of a waste-free Ontario.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Questions and comments?

Mrs. Amrit Mangat: I’m pleased to respond to the member from Oshawa. The member from Oshawa said in her remarks that it’s enabling legislation and that there is no substance in that. I don’t agree with that. Actually, there is a lot of substance in Bill 151. If this proposed legislation is passed, it would provide Ontario households with environmental as well as economic benefits. The proposed Waste-Free Ontario Act would help us reach our greenhouse gas reduction targets and achieve the goals in our climate change strategy.

Ontario currently avoids adding 2.2 million tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions to our air every year through our waste diversion programs. It is like taking almost half a million cars off the road each year. With our proposed legislation, we would be able to reduce our emissions from waste further.

And, Mr. Speaker, the member from Oshawa said that there is no benefit to the municipalities. I don’t agree with that. Actually, since the cost of the end-of-life product is shifting to the producer rather than the municipal taxpayer, it would improve the sustainability of municipal services. The municipalities will save more than $100 million annually, and they will realize further additional savings as more materials are designated for new producer responsibility, such as fluorescent tubes and bulbs, bulky materials, furniture, mattresses etc.

Actually, I was reading a newsletter, the winter newsletter from the OFA. They are also supportive of the concept, and in this newsletter they said, “As a replacement to the current Waste Diversion Act, OFA supports the objective of the new act to reduce waste and the province’s dependence on landfills that are typically in rural areas.”

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments?

Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: I’m pleased to contribute to the debate on waste-free Ontario. I appreciated the comments that we received from the member from Oshawa and how tuned in she is to her municipality. I have to agree with her that one of the concerns we’ve heard over and over again from stakeholders is specifically the vagueness of Bill 151.

We have to ensure that municipalities across the province are at the table and are partners in how we move forward in ensuring that Ontario continues to increase its diversion rate, because I have to point out to the people listening today that unfortunately, over the last number of years, which coincide with the number of years that the Liberals have formed government, waste diversion has stalled here in Ontario. They have a dismal record and stalled out at 25%.

I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out that their last attempt, Bill 91, was an absolute, complete failure. It’s only by embracing the good ideas from the Ontario PC plan that they have been able to move forward with Bill 151. But we do have concerns, Speaker. We hope that we can work and drill down in committee to improve Bill 151. We want to see eco tax programs scrapped: Ontario Tire Stewardship, e-waste and also Orange Drop. We have to make sure that WDO is actually scrapped, not just slid into this new authority.

Speaking of the authority, that’s where many stakeholders have concerns again. We know how this government works and we see it again in Bill 151. The minister appoints the first five members, and then his hand-picked crew selects the remaining six. Stakeholders are very nervous about that. This government has to do better.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments?

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: As the member from Oshawa said, the titles of bills really kind of pre-empt what the expectations are of what the legislation might look like. When you talk about “waste-free,” there is the notion that this government is on board: “100% recycling, we’re not going to have any environmental issues, everything is going to be waste-free; we’re on board.” But really, Speaker, it’s disappointing.

It really is disappointing because this bill doesn’t have any meat on the bones. There’s no substance to the title. We’re still waiting for those regulations. We’re still waiting for those policies. It leaves people hanging. It leaves stakeholders hanging. It leaves community members hanging. It leaves environmentalists hanging. It leaves municipalities hanging. What is this bill going to actually do? What kind of productive legislation is going to help the environment? We don’t know what it looks like.

You’re telling us to trust you, to trust this government to make this legislation effective enough that it will meet the expectations of what the bill represents: waste-free Ontario. Frankly, Speaker, there’s not a lot of trust out there nowadays in this government. They’re rushing legislation through all the time.

One perfect example: We had Cheri DiNovo, the member from Parkdale–High Park, talking for eight years about post-traumatic stress disorder. What a great bill that was; what a difference that made to people. Just recently, the government took that idea and put it into legislation. Well, they need to take our ideas now, Speaker, not eight years later. When the bills are being discussed on a current basis, the ideas and the feedback need to be pertinent to the day it’s happening, not eight years after the fact.

Speaker, I hope when this legislation goes to committee that this government will actually pay attention to the deputants and will implement their suggestions, so that it will become a waste-free Ontario for the legislation that they are creating today.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments?

Ms. Indira Naidoo-Harris: Mr. Speaker, I’m pleased to rise today and speak to Bill 151, the Waste-Free Ontario Act, 2015. Ontario is showing leadership when it comes to the environment and this is a perfect example of that, because this is about creating a waste-free Ontario. Let me tell you, here is the reality: Ontarians generate nearly 12 million tonnes of waste each year and on average each Ontarian generates 2.3 kilograms of waste materials a day.

Here’s another fact: Ontario’s overall waste diversion rate has remained at around 25% over the past decade. In addition, about 47% of Ontario’s residential waste is diverted from disposal; however, the diversion rate in the institutional, commercial and institutional sectors continues to be low, just 13%.

So, what are we going to do? Here’s what we’re going to do: We have come up with a strategy for a waste-free Ontario. The proposed legislation requires the Minister of the Environment and Climate Change to develop and maintain the Waste-Free Ontario: Building the Circular Economy strategy. This strategy was developed in response to what we heard from people out there and across Ontario.

Mr. Speaker, I can tell you that I often get people coming into my constituency office who are talking about the environment and talking about the need for Ontario to have clear goals that support our circular economy. In fact, just a few weeks ago, members of my community came out and spoke to me about this. They talked about the need to take action when it comes to increased diversion and the need to measure our progress in achieving goals. That’s what this proposal does.

In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, it’s not just the people coming off the streets or the constituents. It’s my friends; it’s my neighbours. It’s my kids—my kids sitting at the dinner table, making sure that they are directing me when I’m putting things in the trash, into the right blue box, into the green box, into the right places that it should go. So this bill is good for the economy, good for the environment and good for our children. I think it’s the right thing to do.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Back to the member from Oshawa for final comments.

Ms. Jennifer K. French: I am pleased to respond to the thoughtful questions and comments of my colleagues around the Legislature this fine morning on waste management.

To the member from Mississauga–Brampton South: She was saying I had claimed that there is no benefit to the municipalities. Well, I didn’t claim that, and I’m certainly hoping that that will not be the case. We want to see the details. We want to see the timelines. We want to see that all of the consultations that they’ve allegedly had with the municipality are not falling on deaf ears. We look forward to seeing the benefit to the municipalities. We look forward to finding out the details.

To the member from Huron–Bruce, who talked about listening to communities and their concerns, and the vagueness of this bill: As I had mentioned before, this is enabling legislation. As we heard from the member from London–Fanshawe, there isn’t meat on the bones of this yet. But back to the member from Huron–Bruce, who had talked about the waste diversion rate that has stalled out and what makes stakeholders nervous: I think it’s the same thing that we see across the province.

What makes stakeholders nervous is wondering whether or not they’re being heard, crossing their fingers that their input is indeed being heeded and that the legislation that they are going to have to live with and work with is going to address their concerns, and is going to actually make the world a better place—to actually see this waste-free Ontario.

My colleague from London–Fanshawe: Thank you for your comments. As you said, “waste-free” is a bit of a misnomer, because this is a bill that sort of lays out a strategy or a framework, but it doesn’t give us the timelines, doesn’t give us the deadlines and doesn’t give us the stuff of the bill, so we don’t know what it’s going to look like. As she mentioned, there’s not a lot of trust in this. I talked about reducing government waste, while we’re talking about actual waste. I think that the trust and money of the people of Ontario have been laid to waste with reckless abandon, and that’s a shame.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further debate?

Mr. Mike Colle: I don’t know if the members opposite have looked at the bill, but it’s Bill 151. I suggest they take a good read of the bill. I’ve tried to go through it all. It is quite complex. There are over 100 pages with incredible detail. When I hear them talk about the fact that there’s no meat on the bone—I mean, I just don’t know whether I’ve seen a more complex bill.

Maybe they could say that it’s an omnibus bill, but it is very detailed with a lot of direction—everything from industry stewardship to the Brewers Retail recycling program, to this authority they are creating, to the continuation of industry funding organizations. It’s a very comprehensive bill that requires a lot of work. That’s why I think it’s important for all members to read the bill, and to look at the implications of it. Hopefully, when they come to committee, they’ll be able to better understand it.

With waste reduction, the thing about it is that the members opposite always get hung up on titles. They read the title, and then they don’t go into the rest of the bill. This bill deals with a subject that all of us are very involved in. It’s a subject, basically, that government tries to set direction for, but it requires the co-operation of all Ontarians. It requires the co-operation of all major industries. It involves the local municipalities, first-tier and second-tier. It is something that involves everyone from Kenora to Cornwall in many different aspects, because all homes, industries and entities create waste.

The basic focus of this bill is to ensure that the waste isn’t reduced downstream, but that there’s an upstream strategy to reduce waste. That comes from the producers. We see too much—I’m sure you’ve seen it, Mr. Speaker—that the producers will constantly put forward this excessive packaging. You’ve seen it in everything from cereal boxes, to buying appliances, to buying furniture. The packaging is overwhelming. You get the product, and the product may be of use to you, but the packaging, what happens to it? Subsequently, that packaging creates an incredible amount of waste that has to go somewhere.

This bill tries to ensure that there are strategies in place which reduce the upstream packaging that essentially costs hundreds of millions of dollars every year to deal with.

There’s also a huge environmental cost of reducing the packaging, eliminating the packaging—if you don’t do it. There are huge impacts in terms of the environment because some of this waste ends up in landfills—massive landfills. At one time in Toronto we used to truck our waste all the way to Dearborn, Michigan. Remember that? They were going by Chatham–Kent, I’m sure. Day after day, thousands of trucks would go with Toronto’s household garbage and end up in Michigan.

That’s because people were really not able to develop a strategy of reducing waste here at home in the GTA to ensure we didn’t export, at the cost of hundreds of millions of dollars a year, garbage to Michigan. We still, unfortunately, use these landfills, and those landfills cannot continue forever.

That’s why the emphasis here is to try to get people to play their role, try to get producers to play their role and be cognizant of it. For instance, the shopping that takes place: Why buy all this food in boxes, containers? Imagine all the pizza boxes. Why do you have these two-inch-thick pizza boxes? There are about a half a million pizzas sold every week in Toronto, I know, so where do these boxes go? They go into landfills.

Do we always have to have all of our morning cereal in these boxes? You’ve seen the boxes, Mr. Speaker. There’s about half a box of Kellogg’s Corn Flakes in a huge container that is almost too big. That’s a perfect example of the overpackaging that takes place all the time. Overpackaging ends up in a cost to the consumers, ends up in a cost to the municipalities and ends in a cost to the environment. We must reduce packaging.

One successful recycling program that this bill reinforces is the recycling program that occurs with our Beer Stores. If you know, Mr. Speaker, before, you could take your bottles of wine and alcohol and put them in your blue box and they would contaminate the Blue Box Program. Now people can take their used beer bottles, plus wine bottles, back to the Beer Store and get money back for them. That has proven to be very successful and it’s an example of how, if people co-operate, there’s a cost saving and there’s an environmental saving. So that’s been a great success.

In fact, it’s almost impossible nowadays to find an old beer can, beer bottle or wine bottle on the streets of Toronto and the GTA because there’s such an effective, aggressive recycling program that is in place with the Beer Stores.

In terms of the cost of this, one of the members talked about downloading or whatever. Since this government came to power, we have uploaded over $2 billion to the provincial government that used to be on the municipal governments. We’ve uploaded the cost of land ambulance, some of the welfare costs, some of the roads that were downloaded on the municipalities—we are no longer downloading highways to the municipalities—and this has been able to give municipalities more room to do what they do best without the provincial government downloading on municipalities. This has stopped.

Again, $2 billion has been uploaded to the provincial government off the local taxpayer, to their benefit. This is something that, again, was created by the existing mayor of Ottawa. Remember, Jim Watson fought for this uploading that has been very beneficial to municipalities.

This bill ultimately, as much as it deals with the municipalities and different industries, deals with the responsibility all individuals have in terms of reducing waste and ensuring that there is a comprehensive program that deals with waste. Because if you don’t have this comprehensive program that’s laid out in this bill, you will not reach your targets. Our targets, actually, have stalled, and that’s where I think our government and other governments have not done a good enough job. Right now, we only divert about 25%—we recycle 25%. That’s not good enough, Mr. Speaker.

We’ve got to get that up there into the 50% range. It is not easy; it’s easier said than done. But these are the targets that we must aggressively pursue to reduce the impact of all this waste on our economy, our environment, and on the cost that individual taxpayers have to bear.

I think it is going to be a very challenging task to implement this bill. It’s not easy because, as I said, it touches on a multitude of areas which are very complex, which are very detailed, and which require the co-operation of a lot of partners, a lot of various stakeholders and individuals. So there is a great deal of work to be done. This bill sets up a very aggressive framework for reducing waste and meeting our recycling goals.

I remember when the Blue Box Program first came out. People were, in some cases, reluctant to use it. In some cases, they said, “Well, this isn’t something that’s of any value.” But, as you know, the blue box has become very accepted, it’s a norm, as is now the green bin we have. These are programs that remind us every day that we must not use all the packaging. We must ask our venders, when we go buy something, “Why do I need this huge box to buy my morning breakfast?” We must stop eating out of our boxes, we must stop eating out of our cans and we must stop buying things with massive packages. There’s no reason why we can’t reduce that. As consumers, we have a role to play in that.

We as consumers and as members of the Legislature, and the Ministry of the Environment, with all the partners and the business community, we all have a stake in this. It’s going to be ultimately a cost saving if we reach these recycling goals and reduce waste. It’s good for everybody, and as much as Canada does a great job and Ontario is doing a reasonable job, we have to really step up our game. We must ensure that those trucks don’t go down the 401 to London anymore. We must reduce at source as best we can, and be good environmental citizens. This bill will at least help to encourage us to get to that goal.

I’m sharing my time with the President of the Treasury Board; if she could finish off, I would appreciate it.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): I recognize the Deputy Premier.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I’m delighted to speak to this bill. When we are dealing with a bill, I always like to understand what the problem is that we’re trying to solve. The problem is very clear on this: We are wasting on average 2.3 kilograms of waste every day. That’s how much each one of us puts into landfills on average: 2.3 kilograms a day. That is just way too much, so we have to take steps to reduce the amount of waste we put into landfills.

We have to increase the diversion rate. We’ve been stalled at a 25% diversion rate for about a decade, so we need to take action to get more waste recycled, to reduce the amount of waste that’s being produced. We have a particular challenge in the ICI sector, the industrial, commercial and institutional sector. Their diversion rate is a dismal 13%, so we know there’s terrific opportunity to do more.

I have to tell you, the member from Eglinton–Lawrence talks about the trucks going down Highway 401 to London, taking Toronto’s garbage to London. I have to say, I drive down that 401 frequently—as do you, Speaker—and when I see those trucks going down to landfills in London, I can’t say I’m happy about it. So we can reduce the amount going to landfill. Our landfills have less than 20 years of life left in them. What that means is we’re going to have to take more land to create more landfill sites if we don’t take the action we must take now.

There’s also a huge opportunity here. If we just increased our diversion rate to 60%, we could create 13,000 jobs. There are jobs in waste diversion and recycling. We’re tossing out about a billion dollars a year; a billion dollars’ worth of value is being thrown into landfills when we could actually take advantage of that and put people to work. It’s good for the environment. It’s good for the economy. It creates jobs. This is actually action that I can’t imagine anyone in this House would not support.

It’s built on a strategy that—I’m actually a bit disappointed when I hear people questioning whether we’ve listened, whether we built the foundation behind this bill. We absolutely have. One of the things I like best about this strategy is that it actually includes a set of performance measures, so we will know what is working and where improvements need to be made.

The proposed legislation would require the Minister of the Environment and Climate Change to prepare progress reports at least every five years, outlining what we’ve done to achieve this strategy’s goals, and then every 10 years, we would take a look at this strategy and refine it, because we know that opportunities are being created every day to reduce the amount of waste we put into landfills.

I think every one of us has had the experience where we’ve purchased something, we get it home, we unpack it, we look at the product and then we look at the packaging, and the packaging is way bigger than the product. We actually have to hold somebody accountable for that. We believe the producer should be responsible for limiting the amount of landfill waste created from their products. So that principle of producer responsibility is embedded and fundamental to this bill and to this strategy.

We are serious about reducing landfill waste. As I say, many of our communities have landfill sites. They are getting fuller. We do not want to see more good agricultural land being consumed by garbage that doesn’t need to be put into landfills. In my community, and I think in other communities as well, we’ve got some organizations that are doing fantastic work when it comes to recycling waste. We’ve got a terrific organization that puts people to work, that takes waste particularly from construction sites and sorts it, and then can resell it to people who want that kind of product. It’s really a virtuous cycle.

It creates that circular economy where we truly could become a zero-waste province, and that’s the aspiration behind this piece of legislation.

I applaud the people who are activists on this front. I think a lot of us learn from our kids—certainly I’m one who learns more from my kids than I could ever teach them. My son is a particular champion of the environment. He’s actually made that his life’s work, working to create a better planet, and I really admire him for that. This is something that he’s been talking about for a long time: companies that actually create products that are designed for that full life cycle. They think about when the product has served out its useful life and how it then can become another product.

It can be recycled into another useful product, sending nothing to landfill. There are carpet companies that do that; there are furniture companies that do that. There are a number of companies that actually have created jobs, have created employment, and are working to make a better planet.

This legislation, I think, addresses a very real and immediate problem. It’s backed by a strategy that will actually drive the change we aspire to. We will get reports back every five years to see how we are doing. We will revisit the strategy every 10 years to make sure that we’re taking full advantage of the technology that’s there.

The important thing is that the responsibility for waste diversion will rest with the producer of the product that we buy. The next time you purchase something and it comes in a huge box with Styrofoam and you open it all up and you find inside there’s just a small, little product, you can think about how we are going to actually reduce the amount of packaging and recycle the packaging that must be there to keep that product from breaking as it works its way through the system.

I’m proud of this legislation. I think the minister has developed the right piece of legislation. I think that all of us owe it to our kids to look at this very seriously because the landfill we’re creating is going to be something they’re going to have to live with for a long time. Let’s think of the future as we think about this bill. Let’s work to make it the best it can possibly be.

Let’s actually remember that we’re not just going to pass this bill and it’s going to be done. Every five years there will be a report back. Every 10 years we’ll revise the strategy. We’ll have performance metrics so we’ll know if we’re achieving the goals or not.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Questions and comments?

Mr. John Yakabuski: It’s a pleasure to respond to the member for Eglinton–Lawrence and the Deputy Premier. She used the word—not me—“aspirational.” That’s wonderful, but here we are 10 years later and she said herself that we peaked at 25% about 10 years ago and have made no advancements ever since. Here is the government, in 2016, bringing forward a new Waste Diversion Act that they’re going to review in 10 years. Well, in 10 years, if we’re sitting in the same numbers, where we’re getting 25% of our products diverted from landfills, then we won’t have accomplished anything.

I understand they’re putting the onus on the manufacturers, but make no mistake about it, Speaker: Whatever manufacturers do, whatever producers do, the cost will end up being borne by the consumer. They’re not going to bear the cost; the cost will be borne by the consumer. They’re not in the business to lose money; they’re in the business to make money, market products, and at the end of the day, the consumer will have to pay for what allows both of those things to happen.

The member for Eglinton–Lawrence brought up some examples, and there are some good examples. When I buy razor blades, I think, “My God, I’ve got these little razor blades and I’ve got enough blister packs to—” It just boggles my mind. By the time I get into the razor blades, I need a knife to hack open the package and everything. There you are: You’ve got these 16 razor blades with enough packaging to fill a plastic bag on its own.

But then he brings up the example of pizza boxes. That’s not going to change. People are not going to be picking up pizzas without a box. Would you like to see the mess in the front seat of your car? The boxless pizza just doesn’t have a future. I say this to the member from Eglinton–Lawrence: The boxless pizza only has a future if you’re baking it at home, my friend.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Thank you for the questions and comments. The member from Windsor West.

Mrs. Lisa Gretzky: It’s always a pleasure to rise and bring the voice of my constituents from Windsor West to the debate. I just want to speak firstly to the member from Eglinton–Lawrence. He spoke about excessive packaging, and we just heard from a member of the PC caucus about pizza and how we certainly aren’t going to see pizzas being delivered or picked up any time soon without packaging.

But what we do see often from this government is excessive packaging of bills, omnibus bills. We find a mishmash of items or topics all rolled into one bill with a really great title. The member talked about us getting hung up on titles, but they have some grand titles that, when you go through the bill, really have nothing to do with many of the items in the bill. I think it’s interesting that the member is talking about excessive packaging and reducing that, and I certainly hope we’ll see that from the government side in the future when they bring their omnibus bills forward.

The President of the Treasury Board also talked about packaging, and made the comment that packaging is way bigger than the product. Again, I go back to many of the bills that the government side brings forward, their omnibus bills, where the packaging of the bill is much bigger than the content of the bill. I think we’re finding that again in this bill about a waste-free Ontario.

We need to make sure that municipalities have a lot of information on how this is going to affect them. The other side talked about consultation with municipalities and how they listened, but my father-in-law has a saying: “Just because we have spoken, it doesn’t mean we’ve communicated.” We find that often on the government side, such as with the budget. They’ve done budget consultations right to the beginning of February; fast-forward two weeks, and they’re announcing that a week down the road they have a budget they’re presenting.

I’m not sure how you can put a really thoughtful, fulsome budget together, taking into consideration consultation with the people of Ontario, and do that in three weeks.

I hope that the government side will take their own advice and really start listening to the people of Ontario.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments? I recognize the member from—

Mr. Mike Colle: York South–Weston.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): York South–Weston.

Mrs. Laura Albanese: Thank you for recognizing me, Mr. Speaker. I’m really pleased to add my voice to the conversation this morning. The bill is entitled the Waste-Free Ontario Act, building a circular economy. We think: What is a circular economy? We’re trying to support the system to create a system where nothing is wasted and valuable materials can be recovered. Why? If we continue to produce so much waste at this rate, there will be not enough land for agriculture, and we value our farms in Ontario. We value the food that grows here locally. We value the future of our kids, of our grandkids.

There’s been a lot of discussion this morning, for example, on excessive packaging, and one of my pet peeves is the way toys are packaged. There are a lot of cartons, there are all these little wires—you buy something that could be very small, but just to take it out of the package takes a lot of work. You don’t have to go through all of that. The goal is to create an incentive for the producers to produce something that is less cumbersome for the consumer, and better for the environment.

Yes, we spoke about pizza boxes. Well, 45% of Ontario’s waste is created by paper and by cartons. This is why we speak about pizza boxes. Why can’t the producers come up with a better, maybe less thick carton? You have to incentivize the producer. I heard one member on the other side say that it is about consumer choice. But it’s also about everyone’s responsibility. We all have a responsibility for a better world.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments?

Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: I was very interested in what the member from Eglinton–Lawrence as well as the Deputy Premier had to say. One comment that the President of the Treasury Board, the Deputy Premier, shared with us is that they had been wondering what the problem they’re trying to solve is. That stuck with me, because industry and—

Interjection.

Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: Yes, honestly. Specifically, she said, “What the problem is that we’re trying to solve,” and she referenced that. I just immediately went to municipalities, I immediately went to stakeholder meetings, when we heard time and again that the problem is that this government, during its reign, has stalled waste diversion at 25%, primarily because they get too involved, there’s too much red tape. As we go forward, we need to ensure that waste diversion in Ontario succeeds. How are we going to ensure that? We need to get government out of the way.

We need industry to come forward and embrace the opportunities that lie ahead in terms of the circular economy that was referenced earlier.

But how are we going to get the government out of the way? Very simply, the PC plan would have the government set targets, set standards and then let industry innovate and let industry lead in terms of how we can embrace that circular notion. But it’s important to recognize that, as we move forward, we need to ensure that nobody’s left holding the proverbial bag. One thing that the PC Party of Ontario is committed to is that when we’re talking about the blue box specifically, municipalities are at the table.

In terms of determining the best way forward, we need to have our producers and municipalities, together, addressing how to move forward with the blue box so that, again, nobody is caught bearing the cost of previous government mismanagement.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): I return back to the member from Eglinton–Lawrence for final comments.

Mr. Mike Colle: I think the pizza box reference is very much a symbol of all this waste and packaging. It’s too bad that some people don’t want to look at alternatives. But, like the pizza box and other packaging issues, there are answers. In many countries in the world, when you buy a pizza, they put it in a paper bag. They don’t give you a box. I know it’s going to be a nervous breakdown for some members opposite if they don’t get their box, but you can actually get your pizza in a paper bag and take it home safely, so don’t panic. There is an answer to your pizza box dilemma.

I want to thank the members from Renfrew, Windsor West, York South–Weston and Huron–Bruce and the Deputy Premier for their comments. I’m surprised the Conservatives always do this. This is not something that government can do to you. This is something that everybody has to do together. You can’t blame the municipalities. You can’t blame industries. You can’t blame the householder. We all, together, have to have this imperative to reduce waste. We can only do it if everybody is part of the solution, and not pointing fingers and blaming.

I think what has happened in recent years is that we’ve taken it for granted, just because we see the blue box outside and the green bin. We’ve forgotten that we must be more aggressive in reducing waste. So maybe this is a wakeup call, this bill. I hope it is. It touches a lot of areas, and it tries to get everybody on board in terms of that goal because, eventually, it’s going to save money, and it’s going to create jobs. If we sell it that way, maybe that’s the way we’ll get more partners on board.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further debate?

Ms. Sylvia Jones: I only want to say one thing about pizza boxes, and then I hope we stop talking about it. If you live in the town of Caledon, your pizza box can actually go in your green bin. It is recycled in the town of Caledon.

Interjection: Hear, hear.

Mr. Jim Wilson: Mine too, in Simcoe.

Ms. Sylvia Jones: Okay. On that note, I am pleased to rise and speak to Bill 151, the Waste-Free Ontario Act. There is clearly a need for a new waste diversion policy in Ontario. Our province’s diversion rate, as has already been mentioned by numerous speakers, has been stalled for the last number of years at 25%.

However, as I just mentioned the town of Caledon, I want to talk about some of the good things that are happening in the riding of Dufferin–Caledon regarding waste diversion. In 2013, Dufferin county’s waste diversion rate was 53.7%. It was ranked third among a group of 15 similarly sized municipalities. The success that had been achieved in Dufferin county is due in large part by the program that has been instituted, which of course we all recognize as the Blue Box Program.

I want to take this opportunity to recognize my former boss and federal counterpart MP David Tilson, who, throughout his career when he was a municipal representative, was one of the original founders of the Blue Box Program in Orangeville.

In addition, I want to acknowledge the great work at Blue Mountain Plastics, located in my riding in the town of Shelburne. Blue Mountain Plastics is a state-of-the-art plastics recycling facility that purchases mixed plastic bales and other forms of unrefined plastics from municipal recycling programs and businesses. They process these plastics and sort them by type and colour of plastic, and then produce pellets from the food-grade plastic which can be used to produce new food-grade containers and 100% recycled blue and green bottles. It’s efforts like this that have gone a long way to make Dufferin–Caledon an environmental leader in the province.

Unfortunately, though, this type of success has not been achieved by the provincial numbers. When this government first came to power, our province’s waste diversion rate was, as we mentioned, 25%. In 2014, they promised to increase the diversion rate to 60% by 2018. Yet somehow, we’ve been stuck at 25% for over a decade. It’s very disappointing.

Many in the industry have long been calling for changes to our province’s waste diversion policies. Unfortunately, the government has failed to answer these calls for action. Now the government has brought forward this new piece of legislation that has borrowed some of the ideas brought forward by the PC caucus in 2012. However, there are still a number of issues with Bill 151 that are not reflective of what my caucus brought forward. These problems that I will speak to in more detail later are being met with opposition from those in the industry and must be addressed if we are to make Ontario an environmental leader.

I’d like to spend some time going over some areas of concern regarding Bill 151. The second

schedule of Bill 151 enacts the Waste Diversion Transition Act, which would replace the current Waste Diversion Act to facilitate the windup of existing recycling programs and industry-funded organizations such as the Ontario Electronic Stewardship, the Ontario Tire Stewardship and Stewardship Ontario.

It’s important to mention here the failures of the government’s Ontario Tire Stewardship program because, of course, we’ve all been reading about those in the news recently. Earlier this year, we learned that Ontario Tire Stewardship, whose job was supposed to be recycling the province’s used tires, wasted thousands of dollars that the agency collects from car and truck drivers for a recycling fee on things like wine tastings, meals at fine restaurants, boat cruises, luxury hotels and even donations to the Ontario Liberal Party.

In one example, $16,000 was spent for a three-day board meeting at the Fairmont Château Laurier in Ottawa. In light of this, auditors are investigating Ontario Tire Stewardship, and no doubt we will learn more. The money the tire stewardship collects is supposed to fund the agency’s operations, not wine tours and dinners.

This government has once again proven they cannot manage the province’s third-party agencies. Allowing an organization that this government created to irresponsibly waste taxpayer dollars is unacceptable. Ontarians are already struggling to pay their skyrocketing hydro bills and put food on the table; they should not be on the hook for excessive spending at OTS.

The government has a responsibility to ensure appropriate oversights so that Ontario Tire Stewardship uses these funds to stick to their mandate and keep Ontario environmentally sound. This government cannot allow this kind of unchecked spending across its agencies, boards and commissions, and should immediately be conducting cost-for-value assessments. Sadly, this government has a long track record of scandal and wasteful spending. Whether it’s Ornge, eHealth, cancelled gas plants or the Sudbury by-election, the list never seems to end.

It’s worrisome that under

section 14 of the Waste Diversion Transition Act, it is optional for the government to wind up the government’s eco tax programs such as the E-Waste Program, the Used Tires Program and the Orange Drop Program. These eco tax programs have unfairly increased costs for Ontarians while failing to make any meaningful change in the province’s overall diversion rate.

The PC caucus has been clear that the government’s eco tax programs must be abolished, which is why in 2012, we put forward a plan that would dismantle every single eco tax program. However, we cannot trust this government to phase out these eco tax programs when in Bill 151, it is an option. That is why it’s imperative that we have a clear, legislated timeline to eliminate each of these eco tax programs. We need assurances that these eco tax programs will be eliminated now, not sometime down the road when they continue to take money away from hard-working Ontarians.

Another area of concern I have with Bill 151 are changes made to Waste Diversion Ontario. Under

part III of the Resource Recovery and Circular Economy Act, Waste Diversion Ontario will be renamed the Resource Productivity and Recovery Authority—I guess that’s the “reuse” part of reduce, reuse and recycle—and given extensive new powers and an unlimited budget. The authority would set and impose fees on brand holders to pay for its operations.

What’s concerning about this new authority is that much of the mandate of the new authority will be left to regulations. Speaker, you know that I have spoken many times on my concerns with leaving so much of the detail in legislation to regulation. As I’ve said before, a regulation can be made within days. Three cabinet ministers have to sign it; it doesn’t even have to go to the full cabinet, let alone coming to the legislative chamber, where we as legislators get an opportunity to debate it.

When I read so much of Bill 151 talking about “by regulation,” “enforced through regulation,” it concerns me greatly. I have seen bills change completely when the regulations are actually put in place, and the implications without consultation, without input from legislators or stakeholders. I have a lot of concern with that authority and how much of the mandate will be left to regulation. This government continues to leave things to regulation instead of fleshing it out in legislation so that we can have a proper debate.

In addition to its vague mandate, the new authority would be given a blank cheque in terms of spending. The ministry has not provided an estimate of how much this new authority will cost Ontarians. This is concerning as it could waste millions of Ontarians’ hard-earned money, considering that Waste Diversion Ontario’s current budget is $3.2 million, a $1-million increase from what was there previously. Yet approximately a third of its budget is going to professional fees, not to actually helping improve diversion rates.

This is the same story we have heard from the government’s community care access centres. In last year’s auditor’s report on CCACs, she found that 41% of the CCAC’s $2.4-billion budget went to administrative costs. That means almost half of the money CCACs spent did not go anywhere near front-line care.

In my office, I hear from Dufferin–Caledon residents who have been denied services or have had their services severely reduced by the Central West CCAC. I regularly raise the issue of service cuts and reductions with the minister and highlight the inability of residents to access care when they or their family members need it. While the Central West CCAC continues to claim it is forced to limit its caseload because of a lack of funds, the CEO’s salary has more than doubled between 2009 and 2014 to $271,000.

As a result of cutbacks, patients have had to make tough choices, and have had to rely on help from family members or friends for paying for additional private care. I know of several individuals who chose to move out of Dufferin–Caledon into a different part of the province where the services they needed were available through another CCAC. This is unacceptable.

Instead of giving this new authority a blank cheque, it should look at ways of utilizing the money it already has.

Also of concern is the fact that

section 47 of the Resource Recovery and Circular Economy Act sets out to create a new force of inspectors for the new authority to enforce the requirements for brand holders, including reporting costs and recycling levels. If brand holders fail to meet these requirements, an inspector can seize documents and issue fines.

Yet the fact is that the Ministry of the Environment already has an enforcement branch whose duty it is to ensure that everyone is compliant with MOE rules. Now this government is creating yet another layer of bureaucracy and duplication of service. This is not what is needed to help improve waste diversion in Ontario.

Instead of allowing industry to find the best methods to improve waste diversion, this government is chaining them down with more layers of bureaucracy, which is only doing them a disservice. Our caucus was very clear in 2012 that all enforcement should be managed by the Ministry of the Environment, not another authority.

I understand that my time is wrapping up. I have a number of other issues that I would like to raise regarding Bill 151. I would like to acknowledge the hard work that our critic has done. The member from Huron–Bruce has given us a lot of information, and I really appreciate her assistance on this.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Thank you very much. You will be allowed to continue debate at a more appropriate time.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Since it is now 10:15, this House stands recessed until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1015 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

Mr. Monte McNaughton: I’m not sure if they’re in the chamber yet, but I’d like to welcome Jeff Koller, Jodi Travers and Randy Prot from the Progressive Certified Trades Coalition here today.

Mrs. Cristina Martins: It gives me great pleasure this morning to introduce, in the west members’ gallery, members of the Consular Spouses Association of Toronto. Visiting us here today are Sorina Oprea, Colleen O’Dwyer, Ljiljana Milicevic, Sarla Chandriae, Margery Been, Hyacinthe Miller, Dana Smith, Zdenka Rumlova, Deniz Şahinbaş Şen, Takako Yoshimoto, Yoon Soon Huh and Carlos Espinosa.

I want to congratulate Carlos on becoming the new president of the Consular Spouses Association of Toronto and organizing today’s visit. Welcome.

Mr. Jack MacLaren: It gives me great pleasure to introduce Victor Terreri, who is a Ryerson University student who’s on placement to my office. He’s studying political science at Ryerson and he is a former Ontario Hockey League hockey player.

Hon. Dipika Damerla: I would like to welcome the Ontario Long Term Care Association to the House today. Please welcome Patrick McCarthy, Brent Gingerich, Colleen Laing, Lee Griffi, Bill O’Neill, Ruth McFarlane, Shirley Thomas-Weir, Adrienne Spafford and Kim Wosnick.

I would also like to remind everyone to stop by the OLTCA reception later on this afternoon between 4 p.m. and 6 p.m. in the legislative dining room.

Mr. Norm Miller: I’d like to welcome Beth Potter from the Tourist Industry Association of Ontario. Also with her this morning are Keith Simmonds, Maddie Phillips and Ian McMillan. They’re having their tourism day today and I’d like to welcome them to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Granville Anderson: I would like to welcome Kristyn Chambers from Durham region tourism here today with the Tourism Industry Association of Ontario.

Hon. Michael Coteau: I would also like to welcome all of our friends from TIAO who represent the tourism industry here in Ontario: a $28-billion sector employing over 350,000 people. A big welcome to Terry Mundell and Beth Potter, CEO and chair of TIAO.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Welcome.

Would the members please join me in welcoming the family of the late Mr. Wayne Wettlaufer, MPP for Kitchener Centre during the 36th and 37th Parliaments, who are seated in the Speaker’s gallery: his wife, Marilyn; daughter, Leanne Bell; and grandsons Tyler and Carter Bell. Welcome. Thank you for being with us.

Wayne Wettlaufer

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Deputy House leader on a point of order.

Hon. James J. Bradley: Mr. Speaker, I believe you will find that we have unanimous consent to pay tribute to Wayne Wettlaufer, former member for Kitchener Centre, with a representative from each caucus speaking for up to five minutes.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The deputy House leader is seeking unanimous consent to pay tribute. Do we agree? Agreed. Thank you.

Ms. Catherine Fife: I’m honoured to rise today to offer tribute to former MPP for Kitchener Centre Wayne Wettlaufer. Wayne was a proud public servant. He was proud of his heritage, proud of his community and proud to be a community leader in Kitchener.

When our community in Waterloo region learned of Wayne’s passing last June, it shocked everyone. After all, he had just won a seat on regional council, continuing his record of public service. I think it was shocking for everyone, because he was such a vibrant, lively and consistent part of the fabric of community in Kitchener. It’s still hard to believe that he is no longer with us. His contributions will be dearly missed.

Wayne was married to his soulmate, Marilyn, for 47 years. Together, they had a daughter, Leanne, and two grandchildren, Tyler and Carter. I know many of his family and friends have joined us here today for this tribute. Thank you for being here.

I’d like to make a few remarks about Wayne and how he represented the best of Kitchener and Waterloo region. Mr. Wettlaufer earned a degree from the University of Guelph before beginning his career in the insurance industry in the 1960s. As many of you will know, the insurance industry is a large employer in our region and many firms have headquarters there, like Manulife and Sun Life, as two examples.

Like many in Waterloo region, Wayne became part of a small business when he became a partner in the firm Wettlaufer, Collins, Rankin Insurance Brokers in 1984. His next step was into provincial politics, when he won the riding of Kitchener in 1995 and joined the PC government of Mike Harris. It’s not easy to take the step into the public arena and put your name on the line, but Wayne believed that he could be a good representative, and he demonstrated that through his years of hard work here at Queen’s Park.

In 1999, Wayne had a private member’s bill passed into law—quite a remarkable achievement. It was

an act that recognized German Pioneers Day in Ontario, the day after Thanksgiving every year. Wayne was proud of his heritage and the heritage of so many German immigrants and children of immigrants who call Waterloo region home to this day.

When he was speaking about his bill here at Queen’s Park, before it became law in 2000, Wayne took great care to mention the many contributions Germans and German Canadians have made to our province and our country. He spoke about how the very first church built in Ontario was built by a German Canadian. He spoke about the waves of German immigration that have shaped the history of this province, going back to the 18th century. He spoke about the successes of German Canadians in the world of business, like J.M. Schneider meats, Bauer skates and Heintzman pianos.

I continue to look forward to participating in German Pioneers Day celebrations every year in Kitchener and Waterloo. Wayne Wettlaufer’s efforts to mark this day will live on. What a wonderful legacy.

At Wayne’s memorial service and visitation, it was clear to me that as people passed the display of achievements, awards and body of work, you could see that it was impressive, that Wayne lived his life with his principles at the forefront and with love in his heart for his family and his community. In many ways, his commitment to public service was a demonstration of how much he valued his life, his community, and indeed the opportunity to pay it forward. He did so with great intensity and passion. He could be a fierce and steadfast debater, especially on issues of fiscal responsibility.

When Wayne ran again in 2014, Margaret Johnston, one of his most recent running mates, said, “He was very supportive of younger politicians who stuck to their morals, even when they were on the opposite sides of issues. He admired backbone and morals ... and he also called people on it when they lacked those qualities.... He had a great sense of humour and timing.”

The mayor of Kitchener, Berry Vrbanovic, mentioned how successfully Wayne transitioned from partisan provincial politics to non-partisan local government, where he was dedicated to serving all citizens in his community.

At the visitation, I spoke to his wife, Marilyn, about his commitment to public service. Few people, with the exception of close friends and family, outside this House fully understand the weight of this responsibility of holding a seat in the Legislature or at a city council table or school board. But our families bear witness to it, and they often pay the price.

On behalf of New Democrats, I thank Marilyn, her entire family and friends for sharing Wayne with us and his community. He left us too soon, but his life was well lived.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further tribute?

Ms. Daiene Vernile: I’m very honoured, as the member of Parliament for Kitchener Centre, to offer a tribute as we recognize former member Wayne Wettlaufer, who served in this Legislature from 1995 to 2003 in the great riding of Kitchener Centre. I, too, would like to welcome to the House today his wife, Marilyn; daughter, Leanne Bell; and grandchildren Tyler and Carter.

Wayne Wettlaufer was a loving husband and father, a proud grandparent, a dedicated legislator and very loyal to his friends. When Wayne passed away unexpectedly last year, it came as a shock to everyone who knew him.

If you ask those people in Kitchener, they’ll tell you that Wayne Wettlaufer was the quintessential political animal and fiercely proud of his reputation as a fiscal hawk. He attended the University of Guelph, earned a BA, and then set out to work in the insurance industry in Waterloo region. Wayne became the corporate marketing manager of Gore Mutual in 1980 and then four years later went on to become a partner in the firm of Wettlaufer, Collins, Rankin Insurance Brokers.

But politics called to him. In 1995, when the Common Sense Revolution swept across Ontario, Wayne found himself a part of that tide in a victorious win in Kitchener Centre.

That’s when I first came to know Wayne Wettlaufer. I was anchoring and producing the weekly news and current affairs program province-wide at CTV in Kitchener. I remember that Wayne was kind, relaxed, friendly and always ready to face the cameras.

I also recall Wayne’s great sense of style. He was a dapper dresser, always well-groomed and taking pride in his appearance—a real fashionista of the 1990s.

He was very proud of his German heritage. As a third-generation German Canadian, Wayne was a great champion of promoting and preserving German culture in our region. Kitchener–Waterloo is home to the largest population of people with German roots in Ontario, and as past president of the German-Canadian Congress, Wayne put forward a private member’s bill to mark German Pioneers Day, which now takes place on the Tuesday after Thanksgiving. He was successful in his endeavour, and every year since 2000, when the German Pioneers Day Act was passed, we mark this important event in our community with a special ceremony.

In the 2003 election, fortunes turned in Ontario. Just as the province had experienced a Conservative sweep in 1995, in 2003 Ontarians chose a Liberal government. John Milloy was elected to represent Kitchener Centre and remained in that post until he retired before the 2014 provincial election.

But Wayne Wettlaufer wasn’t done. His love of politics brought him back into the limelight, and it would seem that he and I would meet again—only this time, not as politician and member of the media, but as political opponents.

I wasn’t quite sure what to expect at this first encounter and, quite honestly, I was a little bit nervous. I had heard from some sources in our community that Wayne could be a formidable opponent in debates, and we faced four of them. The first one, a televised debate at our local Rogers station, was where I would first encounter Wayne since securing the nomination. It was Wayne who spotted me first in the lobby. He marched up with an outstretched hand, a smile on his face and a warm welcome. It was not what I was expecting, but no doubt a true testament to his core values. Wayne Wettlaufer at heart was a very kind man.

On election night, he came to our victory party and again greeted me with a warm smile and a handshake. With the TV cameras pointed at us, he offered congratulations. I said thank you and added, “Regardless of the outcome, you and I really want the same thing: We want our community to succeed.” And then he leaned over and said in my ear, “Well, I guess the better man won.” I laughed and thanked him, and promised that I would work hard, as he had, serving Kitchener Centre.

After the provincial vote, Wayne did not stay away from politics. He was still very much interested in serving our community and decided to vie for a position on regional council in the fall of 2014. He was successful, securing a seat. In the short seven months that he served, his colleagues on council described him as an active, positive and constructive regional councillor. It’s truly unfortunate and a loss to our community that he was not able to serve longer.

Mr. Speaker, Wayne Wettlaufer was a gentleman and a selfless public servant. He was a loving husband and father. To Marilyn, Leanne, Tyler and Carter, you have a lot to be proud of. Cherish those memories. Wayne Wettlaufer has left a legacy of which to be proud, one that will not soon be forgotten.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further tribute?

Mr. Michael Harris: I’d like to welcome Wayne’s family, who are here from Kitchener this morning, to join as we pay tribute to a former MPP, regional councillor, grandfather to Tyler and Carter, father to Leanne and husband to Marilyn: Mr. Wayne Wettlaufer.

Speaker, when Kitchener lost then-regional councillor Wayne Wettlaufer at the age of 71 this past June, we lost a strong voice that inspired people to stand for what they believed in, to stand for principle, a voice that reminded listeners what it sounded like when someone is motivated to serve by the strength of their belief in doing what is right.

And though it may have taken a while for Wayne to find that strong voice in a public role, it was his strident concern for the political future of Ontario ahead of the 1995 election that first drove him to public service, in an effort to stand for his principles and raise that voice on the direction of government.

After working behind the scenes for many years on Tory campaigns—a lifer conservative from the age of 12—it was his overriding concern for the then NDP government’s direction that got him so fired up that a friend asked him, “Wayne, if you feel so passionate about it, then why don’t you just run?” Soon after, Wayne did just that, choosing to step out of his successful career as an insurance broker to dedicate himself to public service, and to devote that passion into ousting the government and joining the Common Sense Revolution.

Ironically, it was similar concerns for the future of Ontario close to 20 years later—concerns of the impacts that yet another government was having on our province’s economy—that led Wayne to again stand on principle and get back into carrying the PC flag into the provincial election of 2014. And though some may have felt his inspiration was possibly partisan-based, the fact is that to Wayne, his inspiration was drawn from caring for his area—the people and the businesses—caring enough to ensure they had a voice that would fight for what’s right on their behalf.

Once in the Legislature, that voice became a common fixture in this chamber, whether it be to argue strongly on economic issues true to his conservative beliefs, or to stand for the people of Kitchener on local issues unique to our area of the province, or to just chat up members of all parties. His voice was heard.

While it wasn’t always easy—it wasn’t often easy—and while the successes were tempered by defeats, his wife, Marilyn, tells us that Wayne never came home with his head hung low. He was a fighter. He fought for what he believed in; he fought hard for it. In the end, in defeat or victory, he could always hold his head high, because he realized that when you stand on principle, you win either way.

Most who saw him in action in this House will remember Wayne as a stereotypical conservative, perhaps, passionate about his politics and his province. But on the other side of Wayne was the family side, his compassionate side: a loving grandfather, a father, and dedicated husband to his wife, Marilyn, of 47 and a half years. Together, they were inseparable.

That compassionate side was often shown when the cameras weren’t on. Just last winter, Marilyn tells us, while driving down King Street on a frigid day in Kitchener, he pulled over when he saw a homeless man on the sidewalk. He pulled up, got out, and asked the man if he had any gloves. When the answer came back, “No,” Wayne took off his own gloves and handed them to their new owner. When he returned to the car, he told his wife, “Well, I didn’t need those gloves anyway.”

It was those little things, Speaker, that said so much about the man that Wayne was, realizing that when we all look out for each other, again, we all win.

One of the biggest wins and one of Wayne’s proudest accomplishments in this Legislature was his work designating German Pioneers Day in Ontario. While he was a third-generation Canadian, Wayne was also from Kitchener, formerly known as Berlin, and was very proud of his German heritage. He was the past president of the German-Canadian Congress; served on an exchange committee with German governments to discuss finance and economics, education and health; and, through his private member’s bill, Bill 28,

An Act to proclaim German Pioneers Day, ensured that we now recognize the efforts of our German pioneers the day after every Thanksgiving since the bill’s passing. Locally, German Pioneers Day is celebrated during the largest Bavarian festival outside of Germany, Kitchener-Waterloo’s Oktoberfest.

Always looking to make a difference for the people of his riding, young or old, Wayne spent his final day at the Legislature introducing a bill to recognize Amateur Baseball Month in Ontario.

But his advocacy wasn’t just reserved for his German ancestry or our young ballplayers in those eight years. In between, Wayne made his mark as an active MPP, a deputy whip, a partisan with friends on both sides of the floor, and a sharp dresser who always looked to do the right thing in support of our community. Wayne was doing just that when he stood on behalf of his community members to support St. Mary’s hospital in the face of a very serious concern for its future.

He argued for its enduring sustainability in fulfilling vital Kitchener health care needs, and I’m happy to report that more than a decade later, the hospital stands today as a testament to the work of Wayne and his fellow St. Mary’s supporters.

Sadly, it was St. Mary’s hospital where Wayne spent his final hours, leaving behind a strong legacy as an accountable representative, advocate of community engagement and principled defender of democracy. Wayne Wettlaufer is already missed.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Also in the east visitors’ gallery, here for the tribute, is former MPP Garfield Dunlop from Simcoe North. Welcome, and thank you for being here for the tribute.

Applause.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I thank all members for their kind and heartfelt statements to the family. Our deepest sympathies. You will be receiving a DVD and a hard copy of Hansard of today’s testimony, in kind respect and homage to Wayne. Thank you very much for being here, and I thank all members.

Oral Questions

Health care funding

Mr. Jeff Yurek: My question is to the Premier. Every day, the real cost of this Liberal government’s scandals, waste and mismanagement is being felt by Ontario’s families and seniors. Money that should be invested in front-line health care is, instead, being spent on cancelled gas plants. In order to pay for their scandals and waste, this government has cut $815 million from physician services, 50 medical residency spots and $50 million in seniors’ physiotherapy services. These cuts mean that patients are not receiving the quality health care they deserve.

Mr. Speaker, will Thursday’s budget properly fund health care in Ontario and will there be more cuts?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care is eager to chime in on the supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

Health care is a priority for our government. It has been and will continue to be. Since 2003, hospital funding in Ontario has risen from $11.3 billion to $17.3 billion. That’s a 53% increase. We’re investing $11 billion to expand, renew and modernize hospitals. Those are capital dollars to build up the hospital system.

We’re increasing our investments in home care by 5%. Those investments will grow by over $750 million over the next two years. Funding for community supports increased to almost $514 million this year. That’s an increase of $41.9 million over the last year. In every aspect of health care, funding has gone up. We understand it’s a priority. We will continue those increases.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jeff Yurek: Speaker, back to the Premier: In addition to the $815 million cut from physician services, this government cut $54 million from the health care budget last year, despite a 6% increase in the federal government’s health transfer. Because of that cut and cuts to physiotherapy and eye care, Ontario patients are suffering, and it will only get worse. This Liberal government is so out of touch, they refuse to admit their cuts are forcing doctors to close practices and forcing hospitals to fire nurses.

Mr. Speaker, when will this government put patients first? Will Thursday’s budget reverse the cuts to doctors, nurses and hospitals?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Mr. Speaker, I don’t know how an increase in our budget for health care and an increase in the budget for our physicians could be somehow at all translated into the sorts of cuts that the member opposite has alluded to. In fact, with regard to our doctors, we had a year of negotiations that unfortunately led to no agreement, but we brought in an umpire, a third-party adjudicator who gave us the best recommendations and implored the OMA to accept what he viewed as a fair offer by the government at that time.

Unfortunately, the OMA did not accept the retired Judge Winkler’s recommendation and we had to make some changes in order to put patients first, in order to invest an additional $250 million in home care, in order to invest more in mental health services—$138 million of new money over the next three years. Those are investments that are important to Ontarians. Notwithstanding that, our doctors are the best paid in Canada.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Jeff Yurek: Back again to the Premier: Premier, when you cut front-line health care professionals, you’re cutting patients’ quality and access to health care. I wish you’d get that right.

This Liberal government continues to spew out their fictional figures. The numbers just don’t lie. I’ll give you some: 10 nurses were cut at Almonte General Hospital; 17 nurses cut at Southlake Regional Health Centre; 20 full-time positions gone at Orillia Soldiers’; 33 job cuts at Cambridge Memorial; and 350 full-time positions gone in the riding of Nipissing at the North Bay regional hospital.

All of these cuts were done in the last year alone. Each cut translates into reduced health care for Ontario’s patients. When will it stop? Why won’t this government put patients first and stop and reverse the cuts?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Well, here are some important figures that I think the Ontario public would appreciate hearing as well. The PC government of Mike Harris fired 6,000 nurses. In fact, we know in the last election campaign that they were campaigning on eliminating 100,000 jobs in the broader public sector. That would have translated into approximately 5,000 more health care workers losing their jobs.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Well, the member from Simcoe–Grey should look to see that I’m standing.

Finish, please.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: What have we done? We’ve increased the number of nurses that are practising in this province by 25,000 since we came into government. We’ve—

Mr. Steve Clark: Cut, cut, cut.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m not going to play the game of yo-yo, that when I sit down, you start. If it starts again, I’ll warn the member.

Carry on.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: We’ve increased the number of nurses working full-time in this province by 30%. We’re adding 900 net new doctors to the province this year alone. And we continue to make important investments, including in home care and mental health services.

Health care funding

Mr. Bill Walker: My question is to the Premier. Liberal scandal, waste and mismanagement are having a real impact on the services families deserve. During pre-budget consultations, Ken Lewenza Sr., a former union president, said the following: “Government has a role ... to provide some humanity, some moral responsibility, some ethical standards, to those that we care for.... If we can’t take care of seniors and our most disabled, then the reality is, we’re not meeting our moral compass.” I believe he is right. If the Liberals had a moral compass, this Thursday’s budget would reverse the cuts to doctors, nurses and hospitals.

Will this government stop their health care cuts and take care of seniors and our most vulnerable?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The Minister of Health and Long-Term Care has just gone over the list of investments that we have made that have meant that there are more doctors, there are more nurses, there are more health care workers in this province by thousands than there were when we came into office. We have continued, year over year, to increase that funding.

Now, the member opposite can recite a piece of rhetoric; that doesn’t make it true. The fact is that there are more health professionals. There are hospitals hiring nurses in this province. There are more doctors by the thousands than when we came into office. The member will see in the budget on Thursday that we will continue to increase funding to health care because the need continues to increase. Will there be more home care? Absolutely. Will there be more supports for people, for seniors? Absolutely. That has been our record and that is our promise.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Bill Walker: Again to the Premier: During those same consultations, Hank Beekhuis of the Christian Labour Association, representing workers in long-term-care homes, told us this: They had “a resident die at the hands of another resident who was not, and could not, based on staffing levels, be adequately supervised.” He said they “have had residents neglected or hurt because of this pervasive problem. It puts workers in a difficult and often unsafe situation.”

It was over 10 years ago when the coroner’s inquest into the Casa Verde murders recommended proper funding to care for long-term residents. Yet, 10 years later, patient-on-patient violence in long-term-care homes continues to rise. How many more seniors will die unnecessarily before this government properly funds our long-term-care homes?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I want to just say to the member opposite that I think that there is more work to be done in our long-term-care sector. I think that the acuity of the condition of seniors when they go into long-term-care homes has increased. I think that there is a need, for example, for more training for health care professionals as they deal with seniors, more of whom are dealing with dementia; as I say, there’s greater acuity. So that’s why we’ve invested $44 million annually on the Behavioural Supports Ontario program.

On top of that, there have been billions of dollars invested in long-term care. We’ve increased long-term-care home funding to $3.97 billion in 2015-16, from $2.1 billion in 2003-04. That’s an 85% increase. But there’s more that we have to do, and you will see in the budget, Mr. Speaker, that we recognize that.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Bill Walker: Again to the Premier: We know it’s not just seniors in long-term-care homes who are suffering because of this government’s waste and mismanagement. Rhonda Gow, a personal support worker, said this at the pre-budget hearings about the lack of safe staffing levels: There is “a vicious cycle of higher time loss due to work-related injuries and staff burnout.” Rhonda often hears from co-workers who share her worry about the impact of poor working conditions on the residents’ health and safety. But what Rhonda, Hank and Ken had to say was wasted on this government, because the reality is that the Liberals wrote their budget long before these consultations ever happened.

Can the Premier promise Rhonda, Hank and Ken that Thursday’s budget will reverse her cuts to seniors’ health care and ensure safe staffing levels across long-term-care homes?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I’m glad the member opposite raises the issue of personal support workers because I heard no support from them and no support from the third party for the increase in salaries that we put in place last year for personal support workers.

Look, Mr. Speaker, we are the government that understands that personal support workers are the backbone of home care delivery in this province. That’s why, this year, personal support workers will get—

Interjections.

Mr. John Yakabuski: She’s very angry today.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Renfrew: Do you realize I’m standing?

Mr. John Yakabuski: Oh, I’m sorry. I apologize.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Finish, please.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Personal support workers will get another increase this year because we recognize how important they are to the system.

I also look to the party opposite, now that they’ve had this epiphany around precarious work, to support the work we’re doing to make sure that personal support workers don’t have the precarious work situation that they often find themselves in.

Health care funding

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. People expect government to invest in their priorities, like health care and reducing wait times, but this government doesn’t seem to share those priorities. In fact, the Liberals have frozen hospital funding in the last four budgets, forcing hospitals to close beds and fire nurses.

The people of Ontario want good, high-quality health care in their community. They deserve to know if the Premier is going to continue to freeze hospitals in Thursday’s provincial budget. Will there be more cuts?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care will want to weigh in on this, but as we have said repeatedly, we have consistently, year over year, increased funding to health care. The member opposite, when she sees the budget, will realize that we are continuing to put more resources in place, because we know that the needs in health care are expanding.

But here’s an issue that I think we need to look at more closely: The leader of the third party is using “hospitals” and “health care” interchangeably. The leader of the third party is suggesting that hospitals and health care are the same thing. Hospitals are a part of health care delivery. Hospitals are a very important part of the way we deliver health care in Ontario, but they are not the whole thing. So I would ask the leader of the third party if she believes that hospitals are all there is to health care in the province of Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The Premier may say in public that she wants to protect health care, but the reality is that since the start of 2015, more than 1,200 nurses have been handed a pink slip by this Liberal government. No matter what rhetoric this Premier wants to spread, the reality is hospitals have been frozen, nurses are being fired and patients are not getting—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Come to order, please.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Hamilton East–Stoney Creek, please.

I’ll use this moment to remind all members that when questioning and answering, you’re speaking to the Chair.

Please finish.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Patients are not getting the kind of care and the kind of response that they deserve at our hospitals. That’s the bottom line.

So if this Premier is so committed to protecting health care—which hospitals are a part of, I might add—will she put an end to the front-line cuts in our health care system?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: One thing I can assure the leader of the third party is that we will not return to the days when her party was in power when they fired 3,000 nurses, when they decreased the number of nurses who were working full-time and brought in more part-time workers. Nor will we return to the years when doctors were fleeing this province because they were so disrespected by the official opposition.

Don’t take the government’s word for it. I know that they’ve refrained from looking at the facts and the statistics, but if we look at the word of the College of Nurses of Ontario, they say that Ontario nurses reported 86,794 employment positions in the hospital sector in 2014 and that it went up by just under 1,000 to 87,513 in 2015. They need to look at the net, not the gross, not the losses, but also the additions. That is in the hospital sector alone.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Last week, the Premier said that Ontario is going through a health care transformation. Let’s look at what that transformation has done to health care, what the Liberal transformation has done to health care: fewer nurses in our hospitals; cancelled surgeries for patients; people waiting 200 days or more for home care; and long-term-care wait-lists that are years long. That is not transformation; that is devastation for the patients of this province.

Will this Premier stop the cuts and get health care working for all Ontarians, or will we see more hospital budgets frozen and front-line health care cuts in Thursday’s budget?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Just because the parties opposite continue to use the word “cut” doesn’t mean that it’s true. In fact, year after year after year, our health care budget increases. Our investments in those important areas like home care are increasing year after year after year—$250 million additional this year alone.

But here are some of the other things that we’ve been doing: We’ve been investing in mental health services, increasing with new funds—$138 million over the next three years; we’ve created 82 health links to provide that wraparound, coordinated care for thousands and thousands of the most complex patients across the province; 25 new nurse-practitioner-led clinics, the first one in Sudbury, Ontario; and we invest in all of our health care providers, many, many tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands across the province, who are doing exceptional work. Our wait times are the best in the country and our outcomes are approaching the best as well.

Ontario budget

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is also for the Premier. In the 2014 budget, the Premier quietly slipped in a reference to her plan to cut 6% from most ministries every year, including this year. Perhaps she hoped nobody would notice, but we did. That 6% will mean cuts to everything from food safety to protection of our environment.

Will the Premier continue to make things worse by cutting 6% from other programs in Thursday’s budget over and above her government’s cuts to education and health care?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The leader of the third party knows full well that we continue to make investments in education and we continue to make investments in health care. I think that the last number of questions have demonstrated that those increases in health care funding have been repeated year over year, and we continue to recognize that there’s an increased need in health care, whether it’s in home care, whether it’s in hospitals, or whether it’s in mental health. Those are services that are necessary and we continue to fund those and increase funding.

The reality is that our plan is about investing in the people of this province and investing in infrastructure that is needed in every community. Yesterday I was at the ROMA/Ontario Good Roads Association meeting and I talked about the increases that we are making to the community investment fund that will allow municipalities to have more money on a formula basis to make investments in infrastructure. That’s the work that we’re doing across government.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, Ontarians expect honesty from their government, but the Premier is planning to cut 6% out of other programs and hoping people won’t notice. Cutting 6% is not investing; it’s cutting. Saying you’re cutting 6% from other programs covers a lot of ground, and it’s not what I would call transparent.

That 6% isn’t just a number. It could mean cutting support for the most vulnerable Ontarians, or reducing even further the safety of roads and commercial vehicles, or making it even more difficult for young people to get the speech therapy that they need.

Can this Premier come clean, be transparent and tell Ontarians what other services she’ll be cutting in Thursday’s budget?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I invite the leader of the third party to read the budget on Thursday so that she will understand how we are making investments across this province. She will also see that there are changes being made in the way we deliver government.

There are transformations that are happening. There’s a process that the President of the Treasury Board has gone through. She has worked, ministry by ministry, looking at programs, working with the ministries to change programs where they are not delivering outcomes and to reinvest in programs that are working.

I just made an announcement this morning about $100 million that we are putting into services and supports that will help fight violence against indigenous women and work to end the violence against indigenous women. Those are the kinds of investments that are critical.

Will there be changes? Are we changing government? Absolutely. We’re not going to stay stuck in the past and never change anything—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Perhaps the Premier will understand how health care, education and other services that people rely on are eroding significantly here in Ontario under this government’s watch.

Ontario’s Financial Accountability Officer says that selling Hydro One will mean that the province’s budget balance would be worse than it would have been without the sale, Speaker.

Before the Premier came clean with her plan to sell Hydro One, she was already planning to blindly slash 6% out of the budget of almost every ministry. The Hydro One sell-off will put Ontario in even worse financial shape. Does that mean that the cuts will be even deeper than what Ontarians are already experiencing under this Liberal government’s watch?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: When the budget is released on Thursday, the people of Ontario, including the leader of the third party, will have an opportunity to look at how we are making changes across government and how we are investing in the people of this province and investing in the infrastructure—“infrastructure” is a word that encompasses a lot of things, but it means roads and bridges and water systems; it means transit. Those kinds of investments lead to economic growth in the future, but they lead to job creation immediately, and that is critical to our economic stability right now in Ontario.

We’re in a global and a national economy, Mr. Speaker, where it is our responsibility to take the leadership role. We have a strong, diversified economy. We have lots more to do, but we’re a little bit ahead in terms of other provinces. It is our responsibility to play to our strengths, to make those investments so that we can lead the way and we can be strong in the context of the national economy.

Health care funding

Mr. Lorne Coe: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier. It’s an absolute honour and pleasure to have been elected to represent the people of Whitby–Oshawa. They’ve sent me to Queen’s Park with a clear mandate, and they’ve asked me to hold the government to account for their cuts to health care in Durham region, in particular.

Under the Liberals’ watch, Ontario Shores Centre for Mental Health Sciences has had 56 jobs cut—56 jobs cut. They were much-needed nurse positions that have led to wait times up to a year in duration.

Will the Premier reverse the health cuts in Durham region and will she give my constituents the health care system they deserve?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I appreciate the question. Ontario Shores provides excellent mental health services to many, many Ontarians from across this province. I know that access to mental health services is important as well to the residents of Whitby–Oshawa, and I will fight to continue to ensure that they have access to these crucial services.

But the member forgot to mention—again, the opposition talks about job loss. Often, job changes occur, and because of our relationship with organized labour, we have to lay people off, even in some circumstances when they’re just moving to another part of the hospital or they’re moving into another program within the hospital.

I’m sure the member opposite knows, although he didn’t perhaps have time to mention, that the changes which are very well thought about at Ontario Shores also mean that 33 new positions will be created, many of those available to the individuals that he referenced.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Lorne Coe: Again to the Premier: With this government’s cuts to health care, Ontario Shores Centre for Mental Health Sciences is just the tip of the iceberg, isn’t it?

Concerned Ontario doctors showed up in Whitby–Oshawa to send the Liberals a strong message, and we’ve listened. The government’s cuts are forcing physicians to reduce their office hours and to lay off, or reduce staff hours. We know a family doctor in Durham region who had to reduce office hours and that has now affected 500 patients.

Mr. Speaker, how does the Premier explain to those patients why they can’t get a doctor’s appointment?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Well, Mr. Speaker, I think they need to ask that doctor, because there’s nothing that we’ve done that affects access to patient care. Our doctors, apart from being the best-paid in all of Canada—we continue to invest in them.

I want to point out what’s extremely important for Ontarians to know: This is about compensation for physicians only. It’s not about quality or access to health care services. Physicians will continue to be compensated for every single service they provide. There are no limits to the number of patients that a physician can see. No physicians will ever be asked to work for free. There’s no individual cap on what a physician can bill annually.

All of these myths that are perpetrated out there by a number of individuals bear no aspect when we’re talking about the changes that have been made to continue to support our physicians and to allow us to make those investments in home care, and mental health services like Ontario Shores.

Climate change

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My question is to the Minister of the Environment and Climate Change. When California launched its cap-and-trade program a few years ago, large emitters were included right away. Household fuel and gasoline were added two years later. But in Ontario, it appears we’re doing it the other way around: The government has proposed that Ontario families shall start paying right away, but the large emitters will get a free pass for four years.

Why must Ontario families put their money on the table before the big emitters?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Mr. Speaker, I’m not sure where the member is getting his information from. I think he’s confusing the idea of free allowances, which help industry transition. You may know that there are jurisdictions that do not have a price on carbon yet, and we have to protect our industries from those and keep them competitive.

Over 85% of industries, likely—as they were in California—will be paying, and paying at a reasonable rate, on pollution and will also benefit from dollars coming from cap-and-trade to reinvestment.

Yes, we are proceeding with an across-the-board reduction, but that money is also going back into a plethora of programs, many of them already announced in kick-start programs, helping people reduce home heating costs, helping people buy electric vehicles and helping people reduce the cost of living, which California and Quebec did not do in the first instance. We think we’re ahead of the curve—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Speaker, in the minister’s consultation document, there are free passes for all large industrial emitters on cap-and-trade, whether they need one or not. But all Ontario families will start paying right away, whether they can afford to or not.

Ontarians are ready to do their part to fight climate change, but they want a system that is effective, fair and transparent. Is the government proposing to give out free passes because its cap-and-trade policy is driven by lobbyists and special interests rather than the need to deal with climate change?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I’m going to try and say it again slowly.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Carry on.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Thank you. I’m going to say it again slowly. The vast majority of businesses we have—we estimate that over 85% of large emitters will be paying on the same terms that they pay almost exactly in Quebec and Ontario, which, up until today, the member opposite supported. This is not surprising, Mr. Speaker. The NDP has trouble with the environment. Every time it comes to tough decisions, they get all wobbly in the knees and look for excuses not to proceed.

A price on pollution is a price on pollution, and we will have an equitable and fair distribution of the costs. But they all seem to have taken subtraction costs and never addition, because they can only talk about half the ledger. I don’t know whether it’s some sort of dyslexia but, quite frankly, there’s a major—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): No, actually, start the clock. I would ask us all to elevate the debate. At any given time, members might excitedly say things that I know they don’t want to say, and if there’s an opportunity to withdraw, I’m going to ask that it be withdrawn.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I would withdraw. I got carried away in my rhetoric. I apologize.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The normal procedure is simply a withdrawal. I want to do it right. Just withdraw.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I withdraw, Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): New question.

Beverage alcohol sales

What we really want to know is, how are these fruit wines and the local craft ciders especially—how are they going to get their hands on them? Where can they purchase them in a city like Toronto and make sure that the farmers and the food growers in Peterborough county and Prince Edward county have jobs and continue to expand?

Hon. Jeff Leal: I want to thank the member from Eglinton–Lawrence for this question this morning. I know he’s been a tireless advocate throughout the greater Toronto area to make sure that we develop the cidery and fruit wine business of the province of Ontario.

I had the enormous privilege of being with the Premier, Minister Sousa and Mr. Bradley last Thursday when we made the announcement about extending new distribution channels for VQA wines, cider and fruit wines in the province of Ontario. It’s the first big change in the distribution of alcohol in Ontario since Prohibition ended in 1926.

We’re allowing, of course, cider and wine to be supplied in 450 grocery stores across the province of Ontario. This fall, 70 stores will carry Ontario cider and wines on their shelves and up to 35 grocery stores will carry fruit wines. These changes will help wineries like Kawartha Country Wines in the municipality of Trent Lakes in the wonderful county of Peterborough.

In all, these changes will help to stimulate growth in the agriculture sector—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Supplementary?

Mr. Mike Colle: Through you, Mr. Speaker, as you know, Minister, people in all of Ontario, especially in the heart of Toronto—my riding—really appreciate our local Ontario wines, the VQA wines and all the wines locally. They just love them. But now, they don’t quite know too much about the cideries, the cider wines and the fruit wines and how they could find out more about them, where they could purchase them, who produces these fruit wines and the ciders, and how they can be available to the local person who wants a nice glass of cider instead of beer or wine. Where can they get their cider?

Hon. Jeff Leal: I want to thank the member from Eglinton–Lawrence for his supplementary this morning.

The Ontario fruit wine sector is growing about 6% annually in Ontario. There are 40 wineries that produce fruit wines in the province of Ontario. We do know that the cider sector is one of the fastest-growing segments in our LCBO, and Ontario cider producers produced almost four million litres last year. That’s a lot of support for Ontario’s apple farmers. Fruit wines and ciders will be available at farmers’ markets this spring.

Joseph Kennedy once said, when his son was elected president in 1960, that victory has a thousand fathers. I just want to thank the Premier this morning, the member from Dufferin–Caledon, the member from Beaches–East York, the former Minister of Agriculture Leona Dombrowsky, and a great friend of us all, Senator Bob Runciman. Collectively, we—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Answer?

Hon. Jeff Leal: —to make these changes to the province of Ontario.

Introducing Ontario cider and fruit wine made with 100% Ontario fruit to grocery stores and farmers’ markets will provide a great boost to the agriculture sector—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

New question.

Health care funding

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Thank you and good morning, Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Health. Last month, all three parties toured the province for our pre-budget consultations. What we heard was startling, especially regarding the cuts to health care, with nursing jobs being cut by the hundreds. We all heard horror stories about patients collapsing on their front steps after being sent home too soon, or seniors crying out of hunger because their caregiver was too overwhelmed.

These are real stories from real people, presented to our committee. It’s too bad the budget was already written and none of these people’s issues seem to matter to this government. They’re not even concerned about the appearance of listening anymore.

My question is, why is the minister so callously ignoring the legitimate concerns of families?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I appreciate the question. As minister and also as a health care professional, I have great sympathy for any Ontarian, and their family and their loved ones, who is facing health care challenges.

It’s our obligation—it’s my responsibility—to ensure to the best of my ability and this government’s ability that we address in a responsible, effective and timely way, as close to home as possible, what those needs are. That is the basis for many of the changes that, on behalf of the government and as the minister, I’ve been implementing in the health care system in areas like home care, in areas like mental health, working with our front-line health care providers to ensure that we continue to improve the services that we provide.

I’m gratified that in many, many indicators—cancer care, for example—we’re among the best in the world in terms of outcomes. For wait-lists, the time to wait for special diagnostic tests or for surgical procedures, we’re the best in Canada.

Of course, there’s more work to be done. That’s the commitment that I’ve made to Ontarians: to continue to improve.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Back to the minister: Hundreds of front-line health care and nursing jobs have been cut across the province by this Liberal government. My hometown of North Bay has been affected the most, with 350 job cuts of front-line health care workers at our hospital, including 100 nurses.

Last week, the Minister of Finance mocked our three budget requests, calling them a fiscal fantasy. So according to this government, it’s a fantasy to want enough nurses to provide timely care for our seniors. It’s apparently a fantasy to expect enough doctors for underserviced areas of rural and northern Ontario.

My question to the minister is this: Does he agree with the Minister of Finance that having adequate staffing for Ontario patients is a fantasy?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Well, because of some of the changes that we’ve made, we’ve begun to address the concerns that were just raised in the supplementary.

We have made changes to our family health teams to actually direct those new physicians to those parts of the province that need to also benefit from that comprehensive model of care. We have parts of Ontario, like Toronto, for example, where we have good staffing of our family health teams, and that model is available.

But in places like northern Ontario, rural Ontario and small-town Ontario, my obligation is to ensure that those services are also provided there. We opened up a medical school in northern Ontario, which has had a tremendous impact on the availability of health care providers, including physicians, in that part of Ontario—a dramatic improvement right across the north. When the intake represents individuals from those communities, they stay in those communities. There’s more work to be done, but we have to also acknowledge the success and the difference in patient care.

Special education

Miss Monique Taylor: My question is to the Minister of Education. We recently learned that kids, particularly those with special needs, are being kicked out of Ontario’s pu