u VOL. 1 PR£LilviiNARY UNEDIT~D TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. WEDNESDAY, MAY 12, 1982 NO- 3

May 12,1982 Tape No. 95 ah-1 The House met at 3:00 p.m . Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR.SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS MR. SPEAKER: of the Council. MR.MARSHALL: The han. President Mr. Speaker, r have a statement concerning provincial initiatives in the furthering of our right to offshore resources. I wish to announce today another initiative being taken by the government in its continuing and unrelenting effort to attain justice and equity for the people of Newfoundland from its offshore resources.

Members of this House are fully aware of the present status of relationships with the federal government in this matter. This government, provincial government, is ready, willing and able and very much prefers a negotiated offshore settlement. However,before negotiations can recon~cnce -

(1) The federal government must be just as prepared as this Province to set aside the question of ownership during the period of negotiations and permanently if an agreement is reached.

(2) The federal government must be willing to respond to our proposal for settlement, submitted to Ottawa on January 25,1982. Mr. Speaker, it might be of interest and I should emphasize that this is the only document submitted in the course of negotiations addressing itself in a most reasonable manner to the issues of joint management and reasonable revenue sharing. The people of this Province, Mr.Speaker, are entitled to the benefit of Ottawa's reaction to th~t 221

May 12,1982 Tape No . 12 ah-2 MR.W\RSHALL: proposal-which we have not yet received . tve vrould hope that Ottawa will react and react positively to these rc"sonable requc>sts by the Province and negotiations can recommence upon the basis and foundation that they were launched in the first place . In the meantime, ~1r . Speaker, this government has embarked upon a prC)qramme of informing Canadians in other parts of our ~ati::>n of our proposal, the reasonableness of its approach and the justice and equity of our cause.

The Premier has already addressed a group of leading Canadian busir.essmen in Toronto on May 5th. Speaking engagements ar.d briefings have been arranged and are being held this week by members of the negotiating team in Western Canada . Various business interests, editorial boards and other groups were addressed in Calgary and Edmonton earlier this \.,eek and other briefing sessions will be held in Vancouver today and tomorrow . Reports indicate that these meetings have been very s.uccessful ·and have served to convince c"nJctlans or the justice of our cause.

Further efforts will be made throughout the year in other parts of Canada . 222

' May 12, 1982 Tape 96 EC - 1 MR . MARSHALL: We have found from experience that once our position is known it receives enthusiastic endorsement as a reasonable and appropriate resolution of the issue. This type of support is necessary and our efforts to extend and increase it will continue. I can only, Mr.

Speaker, express the wish that I know is endorsed by all Newfoundlanders to the effect that the federal government will also see the reasonableness of that particular proposal, be prepared to address itself to it, be prepared to set ownership aside so that we can get ahead with tlris necessary development in this Province . SOME HON. MEMTIERS: llc<lr, l\(~ilr~ MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we have no difficulty at all, no problem on this side of the House at all in supporting these initiatives.

As I said on opening day, the government have been given a very strong mandate to negotiate as early as possible a settlement of the offshore matters and I would assume that this is just a move on the part of the administration to show not only the members of the House of Assembly but the people of Newfoundland and Labrador that they intend to act in good faith and that they would like to sit down around the bargaining table and try to negotiate a settlement rather than resort to the courts. One question I would like to ask the hon. gentleman who gave the Ministerial Statement.

What would happen to the case that the government have now put before the Newfoundland Appeals Court in the event of an early negotiated settlement of the offshore? 'I·Jhat would happen to the court case? Would the provincial government 223

Muy 12, 19S2 Tape 96 EC -2 ~!R. NEARY: then withdrat'i the case that is novl before the Appeals Court? And, !U:. Speaker, I might also say that the tt-.ro initiatives outlined on the first page of the Ministerial Statement, we on this side of che House see n0thing wrong with them. I th~nk it is right and proper that the federal government should respond one way or another. They should say yes, maybe,or no to the package that the ProvL~ce put on the table. They just cannot ignore it. rt is there, it has to be dealt \-lith. SOME liON • ME~1BERS : Hear, hear! I~H.

NEAHY: 'l.'he ans1·u~r may not be favourable to the Province or it could be favourable to the Province, but the point that I am making ~s that the proposal has to be dealt 1-.ri th. Now the remarks in the Ministerial Statement on t,:>age t1qo about embarking on a programme of informing Canadians, I do not knmv, Mr. Speaker, if that will do any good. I do not know \vhat the cost of such a programme will be. Maybe it v1ill 224

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 97 MJ - 1 MR. S. NEARY: convert a few people across Canada, maybe it will not. f3ut one thing I will say about that aspect of it is that I think the Premier this morning in his public statement probably weakened Newfoundland's case somewhat when he was commenting on the Alsands project beinq cancelled. I think the Premier indicated in his public statements for the media, that when it is in the best interest of the nation,the Government of Canada, the Parliament of Canada could probably take control of Hibernia.

I would like to hear him elaborate on that because that was something new that has been - PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. NEARY: PREMIER PECKFORD: Emergency powers. Pardon: Emergency powers. MR. NEARY: Emergency powers. Well, I mean I am hoping that that will not happen. I do not know if the Premier had any justification for making such a statement or if it was just something that popped in his mind an~ he figured it was another angle that may be open to the Government or the Parliament of Canada,but I was a little bit concerned about it.

And,I mean, is it a fact that when it is in the best interest of the nation now that the Alsands project has been cancelled and Hibernia probably is the last big energy source left in the nation,and the Government of Canada, the Parliament of Canada seems to be interested in making Canada self-sufficient in oil, Mr. Speaker, would they then move in and deem it to be in Uw i.ntercst <>I th<' nat iun ;1n<i take control of Hibernia? Would that supersede any other negotiations or court cases or anything else? But, Mr.

Speaker, to put it in a nutshell,we support these initiatives and we do hope tha.t the provincial government and the federal government will sit cown for a change, negotiate in good faith and qet this 225

Mo.y 12, 1982 Tape No. 97 MJ - 2 MR. S. NEARY: off the table, get it cleared off the decks so we can get on and do something with the economy of this Province. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Before we proceed,I would like to welcome to the Public Galleries today 95 Grade 5 students from Woodland Elementary School in Dildo with their teacher, Mr. Woonrow. These students come fran ~ districts represented in this House by the hon. member for Bellevue (Mr. W. Callan) and the hon. member for Trinity - Bay de Verde (Mr. J. Reid).

On behalf of all members I certainly welcome you to the Galleries here today and we trust that your visit here is most interesting and enjoyable. SOME !!ON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! ORAL QUESTIONS Mf~. G. WARHEN : Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Yes, Mr. Speaker. Mv ouestion today, I do not knowwhether I should ask it 1 in the absence of the Minister of Justice (Mr. G. Ottenheimer), to the President of Council (Mr. W. Marshall) or to the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (Mr. L. Simms). However, Mr.

Speaker, 1 prefer to ask the question to the President of the Council. Would the minister inform the House if there is a law on the statutes of this ?rovince barring topless waitresses from serving food or beverages in nightclubs? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. W. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware that there 1s a specific law as such but certainly there are laws 226

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 98 EL - l MR. ~...ARSHALL: relating to these matters, not directly but in general terms. I am aware of the sit- uation that the hon. member is referring to and alluding to because I intend,when we get to the matters of petition 1 to rise and present a petition in connection with an app­ arent incident that is occuring in St. John's, in one of the business communities in St. John's. The fact of the matter is I think there is adequate law there to look after this particular problem and the Department of Just- ice will be looking into it to see what can be done. MR. WARREN: A supplementary, Mr.

Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : A supplementary, the hon. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, when I asked the question originally I noticed there were lots of sneers and j ee r s. However, t..'lls is a serious question, Mr. Speaker, and it has a moral implication to it. And I would think that. there should be some recourse to legal action on this alleged immoral behaviour. Now, could the minister res­ ponsible or acting today also advise if there areno stat­ utes in the book at the present time,how far can those waitresses go? Will the next step be bottomless? I am just wondering, Mr.

Speaker, how far would this action be carried on in the nightclubs around the Province? MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, this type of quest- ioning leads to the type of answer that is going to give an aura to the serious situation that I would not wish to cast upon it. All I can tell the hon. gentleman is that he is asking a hypothetical question at the present time. There are two agencies involved, two legal agencies, I would imagine. One would be the municipal council for 227

~tay 12, 1982 Tape No. 98 EL - 2 MR. MJ\RSBALL: the city of St . John's which hos c<'rlain rul\'S "ntl rcqul01tjons with n•spcct to the regulations of establishments of this nature,a nd also the provincial gover~~ent . And I can assure the hon . member,as I can assure the many people who would be con­ cerned with this,that this is not the type of activity that we embrace wit~n the city of St. John 's or in the Province of Newfoundland. And it certainly will be looked L~to and looked in with utmost dispatch.

We will do everything we possibly can \-lithin the framework of the law and if within framework of the law there is any loophole, then we will take a further look at the situation . MR . NJ\..RREN: 'A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker . ~m . SPEAKER (Russell) : A final supplementary, the hon . member for Torngat Mountains . HR . WJI . .RREN: My final question, z.tr . Speaker, Having heard through the media today that this particular establishment will be openinq for business tonight, I would iu st like to ask the minister has the government been in consultation with the city of St . John's?

Is there going to be any action taken before the doors open at this establishment? 228

May 12 , 1982 MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : MR . MARSHALL: Tape No . 99 so - t The hon . r>rcsi<lLmt ()( tlw (\)llflt:i 1. I thought , Mr . Speaker, T had answered it adequately within the frame\110rks of the prcscnl knowledge available . All I can tell the hon . member is th~t the government will be acting on this with as much disp<ttc:h as possible \olithin the framework, as I say, of the lcJ \ol ilnd the law as it exists \11ill be applied . If the la'" is inade -:uatc, which I cannot give an opinion on at the present time , then we will look at it and see what if anythi~g can be done to change the law . MR .

TULK : Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER: The hon. member for Fogo . MR . TULK: Mr . Speaker, I want lo ask il question to the Ni..nister of ~·isheries (Mr . Morga n), Lo com•• back to a topic we mentioned yesterday , namely the closure of fish plants in the Province . I miqht say that we received very little in the way of answers . The minister went on a rampage about the federal government's responsibility . The Premier, the master himself at splittinq hairs, accused us of splitting hairs . ~o:m aou . MEMBERS : MR . SPEA.l<ER: MR . MARSHALL : MR . SPEAKER : President of the Council . MR. MJ\RSIIJ\LL: Oh, oh .

Order, please! On a point of order, Mr . Speaker . On a point of order , the hon. 'Phis is ,, rn·occcdinc; ()r tlw House ,\o~hich is Question Period ,for the purpose of elicit.lnc1 answers to questions , not for the purpose of memb ers on either side making a speech,and I would suggest that that '"as what the hon . member is doing . He should qct to the point of his que<;ti Qn . MR . NEARY: ~1r . Speaker . 229

May 12, 1982 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. NEARY: Taoe No. 99 SD - 2 The hon. Leader of the Opposition . Mr. Speaker, it is the tradition of this House and every other House, the House of Commons in Ottawa, the Parliament of Westminster, to allow a member asking <1 qu<'sti.on to have a reasonable

preamble. MR. HODDER: A very short one at that. MR. NEARY: All my hon. colleague was doing was giving a short

preamble to the question, Mr. Speaker, and I would submit to Your Honour in accordance with parliamentary tradition that that is in order. MR. SPEAKER : The hon. member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk) in the opinion of the Chair has had his

preamble. Now may­ be he can get to the question. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, let us forget For a minute who is supposed to put in the dollars. We may agrcu with the minister that it should perhaps be the federal qnV<'l·nmont, perhaps they should put in money similar as they did in Grand Bank. But the question to the minister, Mr. Speaker, is this: 1-Jould he inform the House, or if unable would he at some future time table the amount of government assistance that is necessary to make those fish plants operational, regardless of where it comes from, the provincial or federal government? MR. SPEAKER: The hon.

Minister of Fisheries .. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Spe·aker, in compliance with the policies formulated and ~dvocated and put in place by the Premier and this administration approximately a year and a half or two years ago of making information of this nature available when it involves public funds, we feel the public should l.Jc aware of how we are spending public funds, government funds. There is no hesitation. If the House of Asembly or any member wants information regarding the number of fish plants and the locations of the fish plants and the amounts of money involved, etc., that can be tabled in the 230

May 12, 1982 MR. MORGAN: MR. TULK: MR. SPEAKER (Russell): for Fogo. MR. TULK: Tape No. 99 SD - 3 House of Assembly. Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the hon. member I think we know the cost perhaps in terms of the personal suffering and the anxiety that is going to go on 2 3 'I

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 100 NM - 1 MR. TULK: for those people. But I want to ask the minister another question~ Has he calculated either precisely or approximately what the cost to the communities involved will be in terms of direct jobs and spin-off from the fishery? Will there be any cost to the public treasury? Would he give us that information if he has it? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. Minister of Fisheries. MR. MORG.~: Well, Mr.

Speaker, the form of assistance that has been announced by this administration, either by the Prenier or myself on differen~ occasions, the form of assistance is mostly in the form of government guarantee; the government will guarantee loans at the bank, guarantee loans for the companies. There has been very few exceptions whereby any outright grants have been made. It is a form, as I say, of government guarantee.

With reqard to the number of fish plants that are still looking for assistance, we are dealing with two or three applications - I think it is three applications now before us- that are requesting assistance. And we are also dealing with a proposal, as I mentioned I think yesterday in the House, from the Nickerson firm with regards to their plan of operations for the plants that they own in Newfoundland, mostly on the Northeast Coast.

So with these few exceptions, practically all of the inshore plants and offshore plants around the Province will be opened over the next few weeks, with the exception of these cases just mentioned and the one that was debated yesterday in the House of Assembly at some length during Question Period, the one at St. Anthony. And as it pertains to the number of jobs that this government saved by means of these forms of assistance, and as I said earlier the locations of the plants and the amounts of monies involved through 232

~.ay 12 1 1982 Tape No . 100 NM - 2 MR . MORGAN : yovernment guarantee,we have already made public this information in statements and announcements but we can state it in the House of Assembly as well . As I say, there are only a few remaining applications, we are dealing with these applications not.; and we are hoping to have them in fact dealt with over the next week to ten days . MR . NEARY: MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : MR . NEARY: Mr. Speaker. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Mr . Speake~, a supplementary. Mr . Speaker, do I understand the hon . gentleman correctly?

Is he saying that there is no policy, there is no formula for granting financia],o assistance from th~ provincial 'JOvernmcnt. to fish plants , that it is more or less done on a hit and miss basis, it is done in the case of an emergency, \o/hcn the emergency crops up it is dealt with in Cabinet? rs that the way it is dealt with? Or does a fish plant know when it gets in trouble that it can qualify for assistance under a provincial government programme, or plan, or some kind of financial assistance? Do they have a set formula? That is what I am getting at . Is there a formula or does Cabinet deal 233

May 12, 1982, Tape 101, Page 1 -- apb MR. NEARY: with all these emergencies that keep cropping up? MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russel l): The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, I did not say there was no formula or no policy. In fact, the policy was clearly enunciated some months ago when we knew the companies were having financial difficulties and would be seeking financial assistance.

We established through a committee of officials in the Development department, Finance and Fisheries, a committee that would analyze and assess the applications, based on a very firm criteria set down by the provincial Cabinet, a firm criteria in analyzing the applications. And that criteria was made public, indicating the fact that first of all the company has to clearly indicate to government the need for financial assistance. Secondly, that the company would be able to put forward sufficient assets for the government to mortgage to cover goverment's exposure with regard to government guarantee.

And, thirdly, that the companies would be able to demonstrate clearly their management ability to carry on operations as fish plants, and clearly indicate to government, in their plan of operation for the future, they could become viable, viable operations. There are three and there were further conditions set down with regard to improving the quality of their product in combination with improving their management ability, and, also, to work with government in finding additional supplies of fish for these inshore fish plants by means of a consortium, for example, of companies getting together 234

May 12, 1982, Tap e 101, Pa qc 2 -- apb MR . MORGAN: to obtain the necessary licences from the federal government to get more fish to these inshore plants. So it was not an ad hoc system of financial assistance, it was very well thought out and planned with some set criteria . And over and above that , ~1 r . Sp eaker, when this governmcn t made assistance available, ~;•e made it available with conditions set down, that the companies do certain things, especia~y with regard to a general overall improvement of their operations .

So, as I say, it is not just a handout proc edure of government money, jt is a very well planned procedure to enable these fish plants to carry on operations and become viable in the future . MR . TULK : supplementary . MR. SPEAKER(Russell} : the hon . the member for Fogo . Mr . Speaker , a One supplementary for MR . TULK : Mr. Speaker, yesterday in talking about the St . Anthony plant, and in the Throne Speech, the minister mentioned that one of the problems with making those plants viable was supply .

Now, in the Throne Speech the phrase was tised, 'Seasonal inshore operutions will necu to u~ supplemented with offshore landings to make them viable'. The question for the minister is, does the minister intend to use offshore landings to m~\e, say, the Nickerson plants along the Northeast coast economically viable, or are we looking at another 235

May 12, 1982 Tape 102 EC - l MR. TULK: Harbour Grace here or some major distribution centre being set up? MR. NEARY: r1R . MORGAN : MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : l'isheries. HR. MORGAN: A superport. Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Minister of I say it sincerely; if the hon. gentleman is going to be the shadow or the Opposition spokesman on fisheries matters, I sincerely hope he gets to understand the fisheries'problems and the issues because, as I mentioned in the House yesterday, we have no control over the settj _:n,., "f quotas and over the harvesting techniques and allocation of stocks.And the question was, Mr.

Speaker, unless I am not listening to the hon. gentleman and what he is saying at all, the question as = understand it to be is what are we doing and what wili we do to enable these plants to have more fish~ 1\nd what ram saying, Mr. Speaker, is that I wish we did have some control over that part of the fishery because we do have some definite plans as to how to get more fish to these inshore plants.

Last year, this past season when the corporate quotas were set down by the federal minister for the first time, we asked the federal government then to set aside from the offshore fishery a certain allocation of the offshore quota for one specific purpose, that .purpose being to have fish taken from the offshore but strictly for the resource short plants in our Province, the inshore plants. Now that met with some approval by the federal minister but the quota that is now allocated is not sufficient.

There is a quota now this year for the first time,and again it was done upon our representations and recommendations, 236

May 12, 1982 Tape 102 EC - 2 MR. MORGAN: to have a certain part of the offshore Northern cou quota left for the sole purpose to be caught and landed in the Fall of the year to be processed in those resource short inshore plants, but unfortunately that quota is not sufficient, there should be more for that purpose. That is the plan we want to see carried out. We would like to see the federal minister in his wisdom next year - I must say he agreed this year to start that programme - to allocate a larger quota for ~hat purpose.

If we could do it ourselves we would have it done now but we cannot do it. 'We are hoping for co-operation in the coming Fall in setting quotas for next year. MR. TULK: A supplementary, Mr. Spcok0r . MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : One final supplementary Ior the hon. the member for Fogo. MR. TULK .: Mr. Speaker, I know full well that the federal government is in control of quotas, but let me ask the minister another question which should be of some concern to him. The Premier has indicated and he has indicated that the inshore fishery needs 8~ per cent of the quotas in order to protect our outports.

The question for the minister is then, does that statement that is now in the Throne Speech indicate that a larger portion of that quota, of the quota that is made available to fishermen, will be allocated to trawler fishermen as opposed to the inshore fishermen? And in the same question, Mr. Speaker, are we now saying we increase the number of fish plant workers at the expense of the inshore fishermen in this Province? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, 237

Muy 12 ,1982 Tape No . 103 ah-1 ~1R .MORGAN : first of all may I say we will make all documents and all material in the Department of Fisheries .available to the hon . gentleman , al 1_ the documents \ole have so he can learn and read and understand Whut the rish~ry is all .Jbout 1 1Jccause Obviously he is not now understanding . 1\N IION .MEMBER : No. MR . MORGAN : Because the fact is that this year there is going to be 15,000 metric tons of Northern cod given to foreign fleets, 15,000 metric tons of Northern cod which is not in surplus , not in surplus - MR . TULK : cent (inau~ib:e) . HR .

MORGAN : And you 1,.1ant 85 per - ~ot in surplus to our needs or ~he inshore or the offshore fishery . And Hh.:tt. the Premier has been sayin9 and what this government stands for is that the ~orthern cod stocks are there for the primary benefit of the inshore fishery,and only after the inshore fishery has sufficient fish to their plants then t~ere shoulc be an offshore quota for the offshore flee~ . But never should there be any foreign allocation because there is no su .rplus for our own needs . SOME HON . ~fEMBERS : MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : Eagle River . MR.IIISCOCK : Hear, hear !

The hon . member for My question is also to the Minister of Fisheries {Mr .Morgan) with regard to Pishery Products . Could the Minister of Fisheries inform this House if Fishery Products will be going into coastal Labrador . A lot of Fishery Products use coasta~ Labrador as a feeder to their plant in St . Anthony . Could the minister inform this House if they will be using their Labrador operations this year? 238

May 12,1982 MR .SPEAKER (Russell): of Fisheries . MR . MORGA.N: Tape No. 103 ah-2 The bon . Minister Mr . Speaker, I thank the con . gentleman for asking the auestion because it is a very important quest ion for the Labrador Coast,and of course we all know the importance of the fishery to the Labrador Caast . The day before yesterday in a mee ting with Fishery Products it was rather to my astonishment that the com pany informed me and the Deputy 11inster at the meeting that they are cJ.osin• J down all their buying stations in Labrador because it \<laS tied into the St .

Anth ony operations . '!:his meant they were no longer goin g to be involved in the buyin n of salmon . ~d of course salmon is a very important species to the Labrador fishermen,as my colleague the minister from Labrador is fully aware and the hon . gentle..11an who asked the question is Cully aware . So that was of i~~ediate concern to our department and as of today we have a commitment from another company, in this case the Nickerson firm,and we are hoping to finalize the plan with them .

We have a fish plant ,of course , own ed by the <l<W<.lt "nmcnL at BJ nck 1'i ekl e nn <l that is leased to the Nickerson firm and they carry on operations there . The Nickerson firm has indicated to us that they will fill th~ gap that will be left by the Fishery Products company moving out of Labrador and buy ing salmon . so as of today we are pretty definite we wi ll have a market for the fishermen by means of Nickersons establishing a collector system of boa~s along 239

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 104 EL - 1 MR. MORGAN: the coast to buy the salmon species from the fishermen, We are hoping to have these plans finalized .. As I say, I am meeting with Nickersons in fact tomorrow, the officials of the company are corning into the Province and we will be discussing that part of their overall plan. But it does now involve the buying of salmon in Labrador which would no longer be bought by the company Fishery Products. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: Mr.

Speaker, with regard to the salmon, where Fishery Products is no longer going to be buying sal~on and that we have H.B. Nickersons and Sons. in most cases then we will have a monopoly on the Labrador coast. Could the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) inform this House if any measure will be taken to ensure that the Labrador fishermen wil~ get top price for their quality salmon? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. MH. MORG!\N: r-1r. ;:.lH .. ~aJ\.er, i11 answering the question, it is difficult for government to be able to set prices.

Of course that is the role of the Fishermen's union in negotiations with the different co~panies in buyina various snP.r.iPR of fish. We are involved, of course, ourselves, the govern- mcnt 1 in Labrador. ?he plants located, for example, in North- ern Labrador, at Nain and Makkovik and a number of buyi_:nn stations, we own these facilities, these plants and buying stations and feeder plants, Fts v1e call them.And last year we arranged to pay prices to fishermen comparable to other parts of the Province and the fishermen were quite satisfied with the operation carried out by government and we 24Ll

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 104 EL - 2 MR. MORGAN: presently have ongoing negotiations with the Labrador Co-operative on the coast, the Torngat Co-operative,with regards to them taking over these plants# These negotiations are ongoing and we have my colleague, the minister from Labrador ; involved in that.But we do not set fish prices. The government is not involved in setting fish prices. That is a matter for the Fishermen's Union to negotiate on behalf of the fishermen: their mem­ bers,with the respectjve buyers. In this case, the buyer is a corporation, the Nickerson Cornnn.nv - MR.

NEARY: Why did you set up the advisory bQard then? MR. MORGAN: - and the setting of prices is a matter of negotiation and agreement between the buyers of fish and the fishermen. And in some cases where the fishermen are not unionized, in the case of the pric~ns of lobsters, for example, we have the Fishing Industry Advisory Board giving us advice and opinion on market conditions and the prices being paid to fishermen. MR. HISCOCK: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker . ~ final supplementary, the me mb0r With regard to H.B.

Nickerson going in to buy the salmon in Southern and Eastern Labrador, historically Fishery Products has bought thern.~ut not only have they bought the salmon as well as the other fish stocks, but they have also provided a service, and that is the grocery store, ,~rheh the collector goes around to collect the salmon, they often brinq food to these communities that are twenty miles 2 4 "l

Hay 12, 1982 Tape No. 105 NM - 1 MR. HISCOCK: away, or thirty miles away from the station. Now that H.B. Nickerson is going in and taking over, H.B. Nickerson doesnot have this setup. They do collect salmon on the Labrador Coast but they provide no service other than the price for the salmon. Can the Minister of Fisheries inform this House whether he will be putting pressure on l!.B.

Nickerson to also give the same type of service of providing food to these people instead of having them to go from their fishing berths, go on twenty or thirty miles and get so much food and then go back again, and whether we will expect to have this continuation of service provided by the fish company? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) The hon. Minister of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, yes we will, but it is difficult to tell the 9ompany exactly what to do.

Unfortunately over the years it has been difficult to attract the private sector in the fishing industry to move into Labrador in any positive big way to establish operations. It is mostly operations carried out by qovernment,or somehow or other assisted by government 1and by the provincial government in particular. Last year 1 for example,we had a service station centre, a floating barge we called a floating service centre, established at Smokey on the Central part of the Labrador Coast.

That barge is still owned by the Nefoundiand Government, it is again our intention to have that facility on the Coast for the sole purpose of supplying fuel and groceries from that barge,for the fishermen along the Coast to use it as such a centre, again at the cost of the Newfoundland Government, and the Newfoundland taxpayers. we are going to be working the best we can as a qovernment with my colleague from Labrador, a minister in the Cabinet, in trying to get industry, trying tn ~ttr~ct industry to est~blish in a firmer way on the Labrador Coast to satisfy the needs of the fishermen. 2. ~ I+/.

May 12 , 1982 MR . HISCOCK: Mr . Speaker. MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : for the hon . member. MR . HISCOCK : Tape No . 105 Nf.l - 2 A brief supplementary, This will be the final supp lementary Or a new question as such . With regard to II.D. Nickerson fJOinq into Southern .1nd I·:,,Sll'J'" Labrador where they are now located , and they will ue using Bla~k Tickle as the centre for the salmon , does the minister feul and does B.B. Nickerson feel that Black Tickle, with their freezing capacity is sufficient enough to look after the amount o( salmon that is caught in Eastern Labrador? MR . SPEAKER : The hon .

Minister of Fisheries . MR . MORGAN: The company is of the opinion, Mr . Speaker, that they do have sufficient freezing capacity. They have increased their freezing capacity at the plant o~~ed by the government in Black Tickle.

J..ast year, they added to the capacity there .And in our discussions with them they seem quite confident they can handle - unless there is an extraordinarily good year,and hopefully iL will be .1 qood year on the Labrador Coast with regards to catch, 1"heth er it be salmon or cod or other species -but the indications are from the company that they will be able to handle the fish, especially the salmon 243

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 106 SD - 1 MR. HORGAN: from the fishermen. Again as in every other year we are going to have to look at the Saltfish Corporation with boats in there,and possibly the Fishermen's Union as last year with regards to the codfish. But with salmon in particular the company feels they can handle the fish caught by the fishermen. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. member for Port au Port. MlL W/\l{J{J·:N: Make it a short answer. MR. HODDER: Yes, I would like to have a short answer. Last year there was a minimum price set by the minister for lobsters, i.e., the price paid to the fishermen.

The minister established a minimum price to be paid. Is there a minimum price this year? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. ~hnister of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, the question is led with a 'statement which is incorrect. We did not set the prices of lobster last year. It was a condition - SOME l-ION. HEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. MORGAN: - Mr. Speaker, if - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. MORGAN: - the question is asked in sincerity I will answer it in sincerity.

Last year the Fishermen's Union through negotiation with at least one major buyer from Nova Scotia, buying lobster in Newfoundland, Clearwater Lobster, negotiated a minimum price of two dollars. And because that was a negotiated price we did agree to a set of conditions to all the buyers in the Province that if one buyer could pay that price for lobsters that the other buyers would have to comply with paying that price or give us an explanation as to why not. And that was put in place last year as a condition.

This year the Fishermen's Union did not negotiate a price with any major buyer and that was made public by the 244

May 12, 1982 Tape No . 106 so - 2 MR . MORGAl.'l : Fishermen 's Uni on just recently, and therefore there was no condition attachC'd in ac-cordanc,, with last year 's procedures . The present price of lobsters, Mr . Speaker, is being monitored on a daily basis by the Fishing Industry Advisory Board . The present price of lobster in the Boston market is u.s. S2 .1S and thP average price being paid !:ight now in Newfoundland is ~1.

St. per pound . 1\nd based on last year at this same time , this same week in fact, the price in the Boston market was u.s. $2 .25 per pound, at the same time then the average ~rice in Newfoundland was ~2 .00 a pound . So the Fishing Industry Advisory Board is, in fact, there for that very purpose to monitor the marketplace, search out what is going on in the marketplace and then tr• determine that the buyers - and we have no indicalion ti1.1L Lhe buye'rs arc.! nol. l,),•inq l";li I' to the fis~ermen in their prices . l~e have no indication at this time that the buyers of lobsters are not payinq a fair price .

But to ensure that they will be paying a fair pr ice we wil l use the Fishing Industry Advisory Board to monitor both the marketplace and the prices being paid here in the Province . MR . HODDER : ~1R . SPEAKER (Russell): for Port au Port . Supplementary, Mr . Spc.1kcr . Supplementary, the hon . member MR . HODDER: Mr . Speaker , the minister said he did not set a price last year but there 1.,as a 1-linisterial Statement,which is on record in this House,in which 245

May 12, 1982, Tape 107, Page 1 --apb MR. HODDER: MR. NEARY: MR. HODDER: he did set a price - Hear, hear! -and went further to say that anybody who did not pay that price could lose their licences. MR. NEARY: MR. HODDER: Right on! Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker, my question to the minister is in cases where fishermen are not being paid fair prices,what will the minister do then? MR. NEARY: Will he set ~ floor price? MR. HODDER: Will he set a floor price?

And once the Fishery Advisory Board has let you know what the price of lobster is, and you find that there has been unfair prices paid, what mechanism does the minister have then to ensure the fisherman gets a fair price for his catch? MR. MORGAN: MR. SPEAKER(Russell): of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Minister Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman obviously was not listening to what was said last year in the House and to what is being said now. The fact is that last year the Fishermen's Union negoti~ted a price with a major buyer who was buying a large portion of the lobsters in Newfoundland.

This year the union felt that they would not get involved in negotiating a price for lobster because last year, because - MR. TULK: He does not know what he is talking about. The bon. member is right. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, please! Mr. Speaker, last year, because of what happened by setting a floor price, a minimum price for lobsters in the Province, many of the 2~6

May 12, 1982, Tape 107, Page 2 -- apb MR. MORGAN: companies only paid that minimum price and would not go beyond that price.

Whereas in some cases they could have paid $2.25, they still only paid ~2.00. So the Fishermen's Union this year decided not to yet involved in negotiating a minimum price, but they would use our Advisory Board - the Advisory Board is for the Fishermen's Union and the fishermen, not for us, the government - to use that Board in conjunction with the union to keep monitorinq the prices to make sute they are getting fair prices paid to the fishermen. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (RUSSELL) The han. member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Morgan) as well. During the election when the minister was campaigning in my district - by the results I can only conclude that he was campaigning for me. MR. MOHGAN: Huh, 190 votes. MR. STAGG: A landslide. MR. LUSH: But, anyway, when the minister was campaigning there he mentioned that the fish plant at Charleston was going to reopen. I am sure the minister is very concerned about that as I am, and I wonder if he could just tell us what the status is now of the fish plant at Charleston. MR.

SPEAKER: The time for the Question Period will elapse when the han. minister answers the question, if he so wishes to answer the question. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, with regard to the comment on the campaign, I notice that the han. gentleman's majority over the last election went down substantially. Went down substantially - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 247

May 12, 1982, Tape 107, Page 3 --apb MR. MORGAN: -to the point where he almost lost his district. However~r. Speaker, the Charleston plant, of course, is important to the two areas, Terra Nova and Bonavista South. There are many employees there, four hundred-and-something employees. Like many other inshore fish plants that are connected with the Nickerson firm, that plant is involved in the present ongoing negotiations we are having with the Nickerson firm and we are hoping to be in a position to finalize the plan 248

May 12, 1982 •ru.pe 1 o 8 EC - 1 MR. MORGAN: of the company, Nickersons, and that plan involves tl:at plant. That is all I can say until we finalize our ongoing discussions and negotiations . MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Before we proceed with the next order of business, I would like to welcome to the galleries a delegation from the Lawn Town Council who are here today to meet with various ministers of government. I welcome you indeed to the galleries. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL C0!1MITTEES MR. SPEAKER: Labour and Hanpower. MR.

DINN: The hon. the Minister of I table the report of the Workers' Compensation Board, the annual report for 1981 1 and the report of matters transacted by the Minister of Labour and Manpowe~ during 1981 undcr_th0 provisions c1f the Labour Relations Act, the Public Service Collective Bargaining Act, the Fishing Industry Collective Bargaining Act, the Newfoundland Teachers' Collective Bargaining Act, the report of the Labour Standards Board and the report of the Newfoundland Labour Relations Board, 1981. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. DINN: MR. SPEAKER: and Manpower. MR. DINN: Hear, hear! NOTICES OF MOTION !1r. Speaker.

The hon. the Minister of Labour Mr. Speaker, I give no tic<' that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled "An Act To Amend The Department Of Labour And Manpower Act". 249

May 12, 1982 Tape 108 EC - 2 l>lR. GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development. MR. GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled "An Act To Amend The Livestock(Community Sa1es) Act" and "An Act To Repeai The Fur Farms Act". MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. POWER: Mr.

Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills: "An Act To Amend The Development Area lLands) Act" and "An Act To Amend The Newfoundland Geographical Names Board Act, 1974". SOME liON. ME~BERS: Ilear, hear! DR. COLLINS: Mr, Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance . DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled "An Act To Amend The Deferred Pensions Act" and also to introduce a bill entitled "An Act To Amend The Department Of Finance Act". SOME HON. ME!1BERS: Hear, hear! MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled "An Act To Repeal The Newfoundland Fisheries Development Authority Act". MR. SH1MS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Recreation, Culture and Youth. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 250

~ay 12, 1982 Tape 108 l:lC - 3 MR . SIMMS : Mr . Speaker , I give notice that I vlil1 on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled "An Act To Amend The Wildlife Act". SOME 1lON • MEMBERS : MR . HOUSE: MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : Health . MR. HOOSE : Hear, hear ! Mr. Speaker . The hon . the Minister of Mr . Speaker, I give notic e that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the follo\·Jing bills : "An Act To Ainend The ~and Falls Hospita l (Managcmen

t) Act , 1961 ", "An Act To Amend The Cancer 'l'reatment And Research Foundation Act, 1971" . 25 ·1

May 12 , 19 82, Tape 109 , Page l -- apb MR . ~RSHALL : MR . SPEAKER{Russell) : of the council . Mr . Speaker . The hon . the President MR . MARSHALL : Mr . Speaker , on behalf of the hon . the ~iniscer of Justice(t-lr . Ottenheimer) I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills : "An Act To Amend The Provincial Court Act" . "An Act To Amend The Law Society Act , 19 77". "An Act To Remove Anomalie s And Erro rs In The Statute Law" . MR . ROI3ER'rS : MR . !'1AR SHALL : yes . Jury Act" . That is pretty strong .

All very heavy stuf f, "An Act To Amend The "An Act To 1\mend The Parliamen tary Commissioner(Ombudsman) Act" . "An Act To Amend The Automobile Insurance and The Highway Traffic To Increase The r-tinimum I-1otor Vehicle ?:>licies . ·• "An Act To Amend The Registration of Deeds Act". "An Jl.ct To runend Th e Contrib utory Negligence The Married Women 's Property Act And The Automobile Insurance Act" ''An Act To Amend The Conveyancing Act" . "An Act To Amend The Prisons Act" . The hon . gentleman there opposite would be interested in that . 252

May 12, 1982, Tape 109, Page 2 -- apb .MR . MARSHALL: "An Act To Amend The United Church Of Canada Act" . Mr . Speaker, I give notice that I will ask lc~ve, on behalf of the hon . the Minister of Municipal Affairs(Mrs . Newhook), to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Urban And Rural Planning Act" . "An Act To Amend The St . John 's Assessment Act" . "An Act To Amend The Municipalities Act" . "An Act To Repeal The St . John's l>1emorial Stadium Act, 1974". "An Act To Amend The City of Corner Brook Act" all on behalf of the Minister of Municipal Affairs . On behaLf of the Minister of Development(Mr.

Windsor) "An Act To Amend The Gander Development Corporation Act , 1975" . On behalf of the Minister of Education(Ms . Verge) "An Act To Amend The Memorial University (l>o iH:dons) 1\ct:." . "An Act To Amend •rbe Bay St . George Community College Act" . Department Of Education Act". Minister of Mines and Energy Mineral Act, 1976" . "An Act To Amend The And on behalf of the "An Act To Amend The "An Act To Amend The

Schedule To The Government - British Newfoundland Corporation Limited- N.M.Rothschi1d & Sons(Confirmation of Agreement) Act, 1953" . 253

May 12, 1982, Tape 109 , Page 3 -- apb MR. NEARY: Is that correct? PREMIER PECKFORD : Yes, because I do not think the act has been changed. That is why he said the Minister of Mines and Ene~gy . MR . MARSHALL : That is rig)1t, the Minister of t•ll.nes and Energy. MR . SPEAKER(Russell) : The hon . the Premier . PREMIER PECKFORD : I said the act has not been changed on it . Mr . Speaker , I give notice that I \"ill on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the follo wing bills : "An Act Respecting Certain Powers Of Appointment" .

"An Act To Amend Certain Acts Respecting Government Departments To Provide The Po\~er For Ministers To Enter I'nto Agreements Subject To Specified Terms And Conditions" . "An Act To Amend The Conflict Of Interest Act, 1973" . "An Act To Amend The Status Of Women Advisory Council Act''. democracy. SOME HON. MEMBERS : ~lR . HICKEY : MR. SPEAKER: Social Services . Another blow for Hear, hear! Mr . Speaker . The hon . the Minister of Mr . Speaker, I give notice that I ,.,ill en tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill , "An Act To Amend The Day Care And Homemaker Services Act, 1975" . MR . SPEAKER : the Council.

PRESENTING PETITIONS The hon . the President of 254

May 12, 1982, Tape 109, Page 4 -- apb MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I have much pleasure in presenting a petition that has been submitted with some forty-three names attached to it. It is a petition that was put together very, very quickly. 255

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 110 ah-1 MR. MARSHALL: I have no doubt that you cbuld get 4,300 names, and perhaps many more than that, to the petition. It is a petition that relates to the question that the hon. member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) raised today in the House at Question Period, and it reads, "We hereby petition the government to immediately draft emergency legislation to prohibit exploitation of women, men and children ln business establishments for the purpose of promotion or profit." Now, Mr. Speaker, this relates to the topless waitress situation in downtown St.

John's, on Duckworth Street, which is in my district, in the district of St. John's East. I think that the comments that were raised during Question Period today are very germane to this particular petition. It is not the type of lifestyle that we wish to have in this Province, certainly in the City of St.

John's. l l1ave told the constituents and other residents of the City who presented me with the petition that I do not know whether it is ~ecessary at this time to draft emergency legislatlon because I firmly believe that there is legislation available now and in existence now that can be enforced for the purpose of precluding such actions. And certainly if that legislation proves to be not strong enough to resolve the situation that moves will be taken by the government to see that other legislation or regulation or what have you is brought in to meet the situation.

It is suffice to say at the present time that as I say that this is not what we regard in Newfoundland as being progress. The embracing of certain places ln North America where they have this some people might regard it as progress, but we do not. We frown on it. We will do everything that we can to ?reclude it and prevent 256

t-tay 12,1982 Tape No . 110 ah-2 MR . l-1ARSHALL : it . And we \rill see and make moves immediately to see that the law as Lt exists is enforced,and if that law is not effective th en we will see that law is put here which is effective . SOME HON .~t-1BERS : Oh, oh ! MR . MARSHALL : I firmly believe it is effect.tve . Nc f1rmty believe 1t is efCcctivc , Mr . Speaker .

And I have much pleasure in presenting the petition , placing lt on the table of the !louse and asking that it be referred to the department to which it relate s, which is the Department of Justice, and I am happy to say that in the absence of the Mi nister of Ju stice {Mr. Ottenheimer) that the matter has already been referred to the Department of Justice this afternoon by the government . SOME HON .MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! MR .SPEAKER {Ru ss ell) : The hon . member for Eagle River . HR. HISCOCK : I am rather surprised by having a colleague in my own party present the question and now have a petition . 257

May 12, 1982 Tape No. lll EL - l MR. HISCOCK: I think myself it is really out of proportion 1 that it really does not warrant the time oi this House of Assembly. I think we have to be careful in the society that we create to not give i~ to either - the most radical liberal element or the most conservative element of our society. MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER (Russell): A point of order, Mr. Speaker. Order, please! The hon. the President of the Council. HR.

MARSHALL: The rules are clear, the Standing Orders are clear with respect to petitions that if you are going to rise on a petition you must address yourself to j t - PRE!UER PECKFO$: And support it. MR. MARSHALL: - and you must speak to it, you have to support it. You cannot, Mr. Speaker, get up in this House on petitions and oppose a petition. When you are speaking to it you must support it. It is clear. I think ~our Honour is aware -I do not want to preclude the time the hon. gentleman is taking-but you will find it in the Standing Orders 90 to 97. I do not know just 111here, but it is there anyway.

It is clear, Mr. Speaker, that that is the rule. MR. HISCOCK: In my

preamble to it, Mr. Speaker, if the Minister of Energy (Mr. Marshall) would allow me to finish. r1R. SPEAKER: speaking In regard to this - Order,please! I ass~ed the hon. member was to that point of order but the hon. the President of the Council (Mr. Marshall) is correct 1 that a member in rising must speak in support of that petition. 258

May 12, 1981 Tape No . 111 EL - 2 MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : And I did not quite gather that that~~ what the hon . member was doing when he rose first . MR . HISCOCK : In regard to the petition, Mr . Speaker, as I was saying that \"e have to be extremely careful in this Bouse of Assembly and in this Province to make sure that neither element of our society, the most fadical liberal element or the most conservative element,gets control or is allowed to have its wishes pu t upon this House . So, in regard to this petition, Mr . Speaker, there are many people in our society that feel that this should not be .

Maybe it is a product of our spin­ off of oil and gas and maybe it is a sign of things to come . But I, with regard to the petition , 11r . Speaker, I support our lifestyle in the sense of trying to have a wholesome co mmunity. I studied theolo gy for the Anglican priesthood at McGill and I believe verv strongly that we do not create morality bv legislation and any legislation that is not on the books 111ill not solve it by bringing it in .

So regarding the petition itself, I support the the1ne of the petition and that is that Wl' hav<" a wholesome society,But with regard to the idea of brin<Jing in legislation, I for one will not accept it . And I will not dance to the tune of fundamentalist or con­ se rvative groupE in this Provi nce. MR . SPEAKER: It beina near four o'clock , shall proceed to Orders of the Day .. 'l'his being Private Members' Day,we shal l commence with the motion number one. The hon . the member for Terra Nova . 25B

May 12, l9H2 Tape No. 112 MJ - 1 SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. T. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I feel indeed honoured today to have the .opportunity to lead off this 39th General Assembly with respect to Private Members' motions, and I think leading off with a most important motion, Mr. Speaker, I am sure one that if it were voted on by all hon. members to come first, I am sure that they would have voted that way, that this particular motion be the first one on the Order Paper, a motion dealing with unemployment, Newfoundland's most serious problem today.

And I feel indeed privile~ed, as I said, to lead off with this particular motion,a non-controversial motion, I am sure, one that is going to have the support of every member in the House. Mr. Speaker, the motion reads: "WHEREAS the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador has the highest unemployment record in Canada; /\ND WIJEREJ\S there arc a number of areas in the Province where the unemployment figures are far beyond the Provincial average; AND

WHEREAS many areas of the Province depend on a single resource; AND 1-JHEREAS the resources already known and available to our Province could, if properly developed, provide full and permanent employment to everyone in the growinq·Newfoundland and Labrador labour force; BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that this House fully debate all aspects of Resource Development in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador; AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Government target areas of high unemployment with a view to producing a plan for joint Federal/Provincial co-operation aimed at improving the economy of those areas and to creating long term jobs for unemployed residents of this Province." Mr.

Speaker, that resolution 260

May 12 ,1982 Tape No . 112 MJ - 2 MR . T. LUSH : certainly qets at the problem of unemployment. 'l'he jde!u. , the purpose of the resolution , ~tr . Speaker , the purpose of it is to give hon . members a chance to debate this 9roblem , to debate it in the public forum, in the House of Assemb ly of this Prov ince, and to make us all more aware of the problem , but much more importantly to discuss sugge stion s, to outline , <.lelineu.te suo gesti.•ms for remedying , for correcting chis terrible pro blem,th is disgraceful problem tha t we have in this Province, unemployment . ~tr .

Speaker, ior the benefit of the newer members in particular, mayb~ we should lo ok at the problem to see how serious it is and look at some of che statistics because 26 ·j .

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 113 NM- 1 MR. LUSH: maybe the newer members have not been following the statistics the way that members here in the House have been doing. And maybe we should look at some of the statistics just to see, just to put a perspective to the level of unemployment in this Provincer i would like to start off with the year 1972. There is a particular reason for that and . I think han. members will remember the year 1972 and we will start off with that year 1972. And the unemployment rate in the Province at that particular time, Mr.

Speaker, in April, in April - there are all kinns of ways we can use statistics, I am looking at April in 1972, April ten years ago today, and the unemployment rate at that particular time was 8.4 per cent. 8.4 per cent was the unemployment rate in April of 1972. Today, of course, the unemployment rate is 15.4 per cent, ten years later.In 1972, the year that the revolution was supposed to begin, in 1972 the unemployment rate was 8.4 per cent. Today, ten years later, the unemployment rate is 15.4 per cent. MR. NEARY: Almost doubled. MR. LUSH: Now, Mr.

Speaker, that should tell us something about what is being done with the unemployment rate in this Province. MR. NEARY: times. DR. COLLINS: MR. LUSH: Because the Tory times are hard Does the hon. member have (inaudible) No, I have not got these figures. Mr. Speaker, the national average at that particular time, the national average of unemployment was 5.8 per cent. It was 5.8 per cent and our unemployment rate was 8.4 per cent.

And the annual average, that is the better one really, the annual average in 1972, that is the average of the twelve months put together, the annual average of unemployment, or the rate of unemployment for the year was 9.2. It was 9.2 in 1972. Of course we cannot average it this year but it is right. 262

Hay 12, 1982 Tape No . 113 N~l - .:! MR. LUSH : Now as best we can average it up to the point where we are,and it would bring us very close to about 15 per cent . It would bring us very close to 15 per cent, the annual average . MR . NEARY : Tory times are hard times . MR . LUSH : So, Mr . Speaker, I can give some annual averages just to show what is happening . It was 9.2 per cent , the annual average was 9.2 per cent in 1972 . In 1979 it was 15 .4 per cent, that was the annual average of unemployment in Newfoundland . In 1980, for some reason or other, it dropped a little, it was 13.5 per cent in 1980, that was the annual average of unemployment, 263

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 114 SD - 1 MR. LUSH: averaged out for the yearJ 13.5 per cent. In 1981 it was 14.1 per cent.And for this year it is going to be somewhere between 14 and 15 per cent. So what we are seeing, Mr. Speaker - MR. NEARY: That does not include the people who have stopped registering,, peop.Le 'Who are di~couraged. MR. LUSH: ~'lo, no.

That just includes again, according to the criteria, that just includes people, of course, ~hn lonk for jobs during the perin~ th~t th0 sample was taken. l\nd so people have their own figures ,, and this sort of thincr. but the statistics here certainly tell us, you know, that the unemployment problem in this Province is a very, very serious one and one with which we are not coming to grips. It is a problem that we seem not to be able to handle because it seem as though riqht now that the rate seems almost permanent, that it is staying around the 14 and 15 per cent averages.

That is where our unemployment rate is staying and, Mr. Speaker, that is a disgracefully high level of unemployment. It is a travesty, Mr. Speaker, it is a travesty. So there is no doubt about the seriousness of the unemployment problem that we face in Newfoundland today. ~IR. NEAHY: Especially among the young people. MR. LUSH: .t\n0n(T tlle young people is right. Mr. Speaker, let us look at what the unemployment rate is in other provinces. Today, April, today in Newfoundland remember it is 15.4 per cent. That was the unemployment rate, the seasonally adjusted unemployment rate, 15.4 per cent for April. MR.

DINN : Unadjusted. MR. LUSH: adiusted. No, that is the seasonally MR. TULK ; Seasonally adjusted. ~R. LUSH: Yes, seasonally adjusted, it is 15.4 per cent. That is the seasonally adjusted unemployment 264

May 12 , 1982 'l'ape No . 114 SD - 2 MR . LUSH : rate for April in Ne\>rfoundland, 15 . 4 per cent. The Canadian average is Q. 6 pe.r cent, thaL is the Canadian average . But what is it in other provinces? PEL - 11.4 per cent; Nova Scotia - 10 . 2 per cent; Ne\1 Brunswick - 11 . 7 per cent; Quebec - 10.4 per cent. Newfoundland? Mr . Speaker, there is nobody close to us at all, nobody close to us . We are completely leadimt everybody by 3 and 4 percentage points . So , Mr . Speaker , that aqain demonstrates the gravity, that again demonstrates the seriousness of the problem of unemployment .

That demonstr.ltes, Mr . Speaker, the travesty of the situation . But., Mr . Speaker , what is important is that we do something about it . MR. NEARY: How many men and women are y~u talkina about? 265

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 115 EL - l MR. LUSH: Riqht now we are talking about between 34,000 and 36,000. And that has risen again. In the 1970's we were talking about a solid block of 25,000 to 28,000 people-in the 1970's. In the 1980's right now we are talking about a solid block of unemployed people between 34,000 and 36,000, a solid block of unemployed people, people that are frustrated, Mr. Speaker, because they cannot finQ a job. Mr. Speaker, and that is the other thing about the unemployment; the statistics do not tell us everything. The statistics do not tell us everything.

They cannot show us the misery, the anxiety and the anguish suffered by those people that are unemployed. They cannot show us, t~r. Speaker, how it hurts the dignity and the pride of those people. It cannot show us, Mr. Speaker, how these people are losing their pride and dignity because they cannot find a job for themselves, because they cannot find work and keep their family and give them the standard of living that they have a right to give their family. The statistics cannot tell us that, Mr. Speaker. They cannot tell us how the moral fibre of this Province is being destroyed. They cannot tell us that.

But, Mr. Speaker, that is the problem. It is the major problem. It is a major problem and certainly one that deserves the immediate attention of this government and of the federal government. And notice, Mr. Speaker, the resolution does not say that it is nec­ essarily or primarily a provincial responsibility. It also ties in there the federal responsibility but, Mr. Speaker, let us not have a government that is going to slough off the responsibility totally to the federal government, blaming 266

May 12, 1982 Tape No . 115 EL - 2 MR . LUSH : the high levels of unemployment in this Province on the feder al government . It is a joint thing, l'ir . Speaker, and there is no point in laying or shifting the blame . The thing is that what the people of this Province want action, tl,ey want something done about it . t~ell, Mr . Speaker , I bel ic-vc that we can do someth ing about it . I believe that we can do something about it. I have confidence in this Province , I have confidence in its people and I believe that we can do somethin g about this problem . Mr . Speaker, 1vhat do we do? Are we sitting back and waitin g for the oil to come-: 267

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 116 NM- 1 MR. LUSH: Is that what we are wai tinq for '? Mr. Speaker, if we are waiting for that we are q9inq to be waitinq a long time. The time frame that I have been told about is that we can expect revenues from the offshore oil about ten years time, 1992, and the early 1990s. Those are the figures I have been hearing. Now I know that there is going to be the Premier talks about modular construction, there is going to be construction of modules. Well,I am longing for the people of Terra Nova district to get out constructing those modules.

And I am nqt trying to undermine the importance of the offshore oil. We all know it is common sense that during the exploration stages that there is going to be some work but, Mr. Speaker, there is not qoinq to be an awful lot of revenue coming from that at this point in time to be able to do the things to develop this Province the way that it should be developed. So what have we done? Have we thrown our arms in the air and just said we are going to put everything on hold until we get revenues, until money starts coming in from the offshore oil? I do not think, Mr.

Speaker, that is qoing to be very satisfactory to 34,000 or 36,000 people that are today unemployed in this Province, and more of them. But the 34,000, the 36,000 or 40,000, whatever fiqure we want to use because of the discouraged workers, the people who do not count anymore - do not count in the statistics that is - the 34,000 to 36,000 1 I do not think they are going to be very happy with the provincial government's attitude of sitting and waiting until we get revenues from the offshore oil. Something must be done now. Something must be done now. People 268

May 12, 1982 Tape No . 116 NM - 2 MR . LUSB : need bread on the table tomorrow morning, Mr . Speaker. They need bread on the table tomorrow morning . And as I have said before it is difficult to imagine the misery, the anxiety, and the anguish of people that arc unemployed . But, Mr . Spe~~er, as the resolution suggests, I believe that there is something we can do . I believe there is something we can do to improve the unemployment in this Province by developing our resources. But again, Mr .

Speaker, I seem to get the notion that hon. members opposite feel that we must get the offshore develo~ed before we can do these other resources, these resources th<lt we have had with us ever since we have been a Province, or ever since this place has been inhabited . The people came here because of our natural resources. Tney came here because of our fisheries. Now , Mr. Speaker, there s~erns to be a feeling abroad now that unless we get the money from the offshore that we have to .Put a hold on all of these resources - our agriculture, our forestry, 269

May 12, 1982 Tape 117 EC - l MR. LUSH;. our fisheries, our mining, our tourism we have to put a hold on that for the next ten years. No, Mr. Speaker, we do not have to. Let us get down to brass· tacks and develop these resources, particularly these renewable resources, Our fisheries, and I realize there are some problems in the fisheries, but I believe if we get down to a spirit of co-operation federally and provincially that we can improve that industry, Mr. Speaker. There are many problems there but we certainly have to deal with these problems.

We have to decide what the fisheries is going to mean to this Province, we have to decide how many people the fisheries can support. We have 'to decide that, Mr. Speaker, and get at it. He have to decide what potential we have in the forestry of this Province. Can hon. members and the !iinister of Forestry (l-1r. Power) look at me and tell me that we are getting the maximum potential from our forest industries and related industrieE? ~he small sawmills in this Province, that they are operating at a maximum? '['hat we are not importing any lumber in this Province?

There is no room for small sawmill operations in this Province. How much lum~er do you think we are importing? Do you think we are importing ·any? Do you think we are importing 20 per cent, 30 per cent of our local needs? I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, we are importing a large percentage of lumber from the Maritimes and other Canadian provinces. As long as we are doing that, l~r. Speaker, then we have not developed the forest to its full potential. How about agriculture?

Is the minister responsible able to look at me and tell me that we have arrived at the policy of self­ reliance, that we are aspiring towards that policy 270

May 12 , 1982 Tape 117 I ~(' - .., MR . LUSH: and we are there? No, the minister knows that we are moving very slowly . As a matter of fact in my own district, which i s one of the largest agricultural areas in the Province , in the last two years production has gone dO\~n . What is the reason? i~hen is the last time the minister was out there meeting with the farmers - or any minister - meeting \llith the farmers in the Terra Nova District , which is one of the largest agricultural areas in the ProvL."lce? In 1978 it had the largest production i n the Provinc ·e in the major crops of cabbage, potatoes, turnip .

Production, Mr . Speaker, has gone dO\o~n in the last coupl e of years . I wonder \•1hy? 'l'he minister should know . The minister should be able to tell us why production has gone do•m in the Terra Nova district in the l ast couple of years \vi th respect to agriculture, ont" 2 71

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 118 MJ - 1 MR. T. LUSH: of the strongest agricultural areas of the Province, Mr. Speaker, but not realizing its potential. That is something that the government can get at, Mr. Speaker, we do not need the federal government for that 1 that great aqricultural area of the Terra Nova District. Mr. Speaker, I have mentioned just two areas, f'orestry and agriculture, where I am sure that we can create thousands of jobs for people today 1 thousands of jobs, Mr. Speaker, by developing both these industries to their~ potential. Mr.

Speaker, I could go on but I will not.I just got the note and I think my time is just about over. So, Mr. Speaker, I will hope, as I have said,that as we discuss this resolution that we come up with points today, Mr. Speaker, that we deliniate areas of development,that we co-operatively outline the things that can be done to improve the unemployment level in this Province, to give the people of this Province a k'ind of living that they deserve. Mr.

Speaker, our resources is our heritage, and the people of this Province own that heritage , 1\.nd it is our obligation, it is the obligation of the provincial government to develop these resources. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, please! MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order! I have to inform the member his time has elapsed. MR. LUSH: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I hope that we will have a fruitful discussion over the next couple of days, two Wednesdays,and I hope we will come up with suggestions to get our people back to work. Thank you very much. 272

May 12, 1982 Tape No . 118 MJ - 2 MR. SPEAKER lAy1vlard ) : The hon . the Minister of Labour and ManpO>-'er. MR . J. DINN: First of all , Mr . Speaker, I 111ant to take this opportunity to congra tulnte the hon . member for brinqinq for.w;)rd to this HoLtS<' of i\sscmbly ~,,._,b.lbly the most important resolution that we will discuss in Priv ate Members' day dur ing this sittin g of the House of Assembly. And, Mr . Speaker, "'hen he s tated off his speech I knew that the hon . member was on the right track .

He talked about resource development and he talked about co-operation 1vith the federal gove rnment . 1\nd, 1'1r . Speaker , the hon . member and I are toe to toe , nose to nose , belly to bell y on this one that 273

May 12 , l 9 8 2 Tape No. 119 SD - 1 MR. DINN: all we need is a little co-operation with the federal government and we can ce~tainly put a dent in the unemployment situation in this Province, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. DINN: There is no question that we can put a dent in the unemployment situation in this Province. Many thi_ncrs have been done, Mr. Speaker, that the hon. member knows have been done in the past three or four years by this administration to improve the situation with respect to unemployment.

But many things have happened nationally and internationally over which we had no control that have caused the unemployment statistics in 1981 to rise somewhat. Now, Mr. Speaker, they did not rise as high as the national average rose on a percentage basis because the national average went frorr. 1980 to 1981 up from 6. 7 per cent in one year up to 9.5 per cent, Mr. Speaker. So ours did not rise that much. It did rise; it went from 13.6 per cent on th0 average in 1980 to 14.2 per cent , as the hon. member pointed out. So we did not rise as fast as the national average did because, Mr.

Speaker, we, in this Province, had put a foundation in of a development based on a development of our resources,so that it did not impact as greatly in Newfoundland as it did nationally over that one year. And, Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is absolutely right,that the unemployment rate in Newfoundland is a disgrace. And, Mr. Speaker, many things have been done,which I will outline to the hon. member,and many things have been done with respect to federal/provincial negotiations to attempt to get Ottawa on the right track,oh the same track as this government is,so that we can develop our resources.

I will table for the hon. m~mber, Mr. Speaker, a proposal that I put to the federal government a year or so ago. The hon. members will remember that in 1979 there was a federal election and a PC government got in in Ottawa for a very short 2 7 L1

-- ..:t. ·-. May 12 , 1982 Tape No . 119 SO - 2 MR . DINN: period of time . Immediately when that government was elected I met with the hon . Ron Atkey, who \oJas at that point in time the ~1inister of Employment and Immigration,and Mr . Atkey said at that time , he said , 'Mi nister,we have to do something about these Canada \'lorks programmes that we have .

We cannot be building fences around ccmctarlcs ', he suid , 'We c.1nnoL l>v doing these non-essentia l, the se programmes that are or no use to people in this Province . 1 He said , 1 What loJC hav .:­ to do is develop something based upon what you people arc talking about in Newfoundland and Labrador, based upon, developed around the resources that you are trying to develop down there. in the fis he ry , in the :ore stry, in your tourism '. So, Mr. Spc~k<'r , he said to noc , 275

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 120 EL-l MR. DINN: 'If you will assist us and put a programme together, then~ he says, 'I will get the money thi:lt you need so you can go on with your proqramme and develop you resources.' So, Mr. Speaker, I got together with the ministers involved in the resource areas, the Minister of Fisheries, the Minister of Forestry, the Minister of Agriculture, the Minister of Tourism, the Minister of Recreation ano, Mr. Speaker, I put a proposal together. I got a task force together of senior officials in all those departments and I put it together, Mr. Speaker, and it was the first one in .

He asked the Eastern Canadian provinces to do it from Quebec to Newfoundland, to put in a proposal. I was the first one to get a proposal in and in discussions with Mr. Atkey at that time he said it was the first and best proposal that was ever put in to the federal government with respect to the distribution of funds for development based upon and centered around resources, projects that would have some use to people - slipways, haulups, Mr. Speaker, for thinning out the forests and that sort of thing, Mr. Speaker.

And I am going to table this for hon. members, because sometimes in this House of Assembly people sometimes question, sometimes wonder whether what you are saying is absolutely 100 per cent correct. And, Mr. Speaker, I went to these departments for projects and I priorized them. But I made a note to the bon. minister at the time. I said, look, if you do not like the priorities that we put on these projects, please do not cancel the programme because of our priorities. If you want to shuffle them around, they are all good projects, Mr. Speaker. If you want to shuffle them a little bit, that is not a problem 276

May 12 , 1982 Tape No. 120 £L - 2 foiR . DINN : with me . If you want your federal members to sit down and di sc uss these project s,that is not a problem with me as long as we centre it around our resources, our fi sh eries, Mr . Speaker . Community stages, !<1r . Speaker, in the hon . member 's district . And, Mr . Speaker, I have books over in my department like that outlining what these projects are and what they should be and where they should be . Community stages, twenty :provincial locations to be determined by the Department of Fisheries in conjunction with the federal government .

Construction and upgrading of fish landing facilitie s, Mr . Speaker . And they go on and on and on , and we priorized this, Mr . Speaker, I think there were 132 projects . Now , Mr . Speaker , in this Eastern canada Employment Programme to be developed by the federal government,S50 million wa5 to be set as ide for this Eastern Canaoa Development Programme,and we were to get, 277

May 12,1982 Tape No. 121 ah-1 MR. DINN: based on the proposal that put forward, a E"'roportionate share. Mr. Speaker, then we had a federal election. All hon. members know what happened,I believe ~ it -; was the election of 1~80. AN HON.MEMBER: It was Febru~rv 18th, that federal elPctin~. MR. DINN: Right. We had a federal election and we had a new Minister of Employment and Immigration. So I got on the horn right away and I called the hon. Lloyd Axworthy, the Minister of Employment and Immigration appointed at that time. I said , 'Mr.

Axworthy, congratulations first of all on being elected and1nurnber two,on getting the post of Employment and Immigration, a very important post to Newfoundland.

I would like to get together with you and discuss some of the projects that we have been discussing with the previous administration to see what your ideas are on them.' And he said,'Well,I would be delighted to do that.' So I got of a letter to him outlining the projects and programme that I had presented t.n th<> f'n~~c:-: minister and asked him to comment on it and when we could get together on the programme to see if we could get the thing in place for that year,so that when Summer employment carne and when the Canada Works programme, the replacrnent for that carne ,we would be geared up and ready to go with these good programmes.

Co-operation~ That was the order of the day. I was surprised, shocked, that all this work done by the resource departments down there and on which I complement the ministers responsible for the work that they put into that programme, shocked when I got a letter back from Mr. Axworthy saying that , you know, it is all very nice· 278

.. May !2 ,1982 Tape No . 121 ah -2 MR . DINN : The programme that you have pre sented to us is a good programme .nowever ,we want to go back to the political pork-barrelling that we had previously-and that wa s the Canada Work s. They put a ne w nam e on it and they called it Commu nity Development projects and they went back to the buildin g of the cemetary £ences and the strengthening of the cemetary fences and projects of that sort . And that programme \vhich I \vill table , Mr .

Speaker , for hon . members who may not know tha t we did take initiatives to try to get the sort of co -operation the hon . member talked about with the federa~ government,and rather thdn see the $20, ~30 , or $40 million go on projects that were not rea lly centered around resource ae ve!opment in most inst ance s, projects that would be of use to communities in the hon . member 's district and in St . Mary 's - The Capes and all the oth er rura l a rea s of thi s Prov ince wh ere we need to get in and develop the resources that the hon . member talks about . And I complement him on h~s speech today .

SOME HON . MEMBERS : He ar, hear ! MR . DINN : It was a v ery good speec h. The re was some bia s in it . obviou sly 279

May 12, 1982 Tape 122 EC - 1 MR. DINN: this is a forum where you present your arguments and somebody gets up on this side and presents ours. Mr. Speaker, the hon. member talked about unemployment and said the unemployment rate rose, and it certainly did. He madenote that in 1978 our unemployment rate averaged over the year was 16.4 per cent. It went 16.4, 15.5, 13.6 and 14.1, as the hon. member pointed out. So we did have a slight rise last year.

With the programmes that have already been put in place and the programmes that we hope to get going,and if the member can intercede with his colleagues in Ottawa, maybe we can get the kind of co-operation going that we need going, Mr. Speaker, so that the $20 million or $30 million that is put in here on the Canada Works programme can be put to some use. And, Mr. Speaker, I will give it to the House so that they can go through the projects. And it is nothing, certainly, that I am as~amed of. I am for developing and rescources, \ for trying to decrease the unemployment rate, and, Mr.

Speaker, if the hon. member wants to see it, he can see the communications that I sent to Mr. Axworthy and the fact that he foisted it off on the hon. Bud Olson, who threw the programme out and went back to the political pork barrelling where the members got so much money per district and they doled it out on whatever it was that was put forward. So, Mr. Speaker, as I say, I congratulate the hon. member. NovJ, "i th respect to what is the government doing in the Province today? Well, Mr. Speaker, the han. the Minister of ~isheries (Mr.

Morgan) stood in this House yesterday and answered questions and talked about twenty or thirty fish plants that he assisted over the past year or so to keep them operating 28[1

May 12, 1982 Tape 1.22 EC - 2 MR. DINN : this year, and that \dll save somethin~ l.ike 7,000 or 8 , 000 jobs directly in communities throughout this Province 1 ~lr . Speaker. lt is very difficult . The hon . the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) has a very difficult job . He cannot control 1.7,000 metric to.ns of squid going to the Japanese 1 he cannot control 6,000 metric tons going to the Cupans, he cannot control what is given away from the Northern cod stock that \.;ill go to plants in Nova Scotia that caused us thousands of jobs last year, that right now, Mr .

Speaker, the plant - the.hon . member is not here right now - the plant, for example , in St . Lawrence is not open yet because they do not have a supply of fish, something over 1~hich the hon . the Minister of Fisheries has no control at all , Mr. Speaker, and is trying, and not only that , has convinced his colleagues in Cabine t to put forward money so that the plants that have opened opened, so that 8,000 jobs to this point in time have been saved, even though he is fighting a losing battle ~>lith a federal fisheries minis t er who has given away the resource for nothing - g iving .it away, ~1r . Speaker .

SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! 2 8 .,

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 123 NM - 1 MR. DINN: And, Mr. Speaker, I have no doubt that the hon. Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) will get that plant in St. Lawrence open, and get a supply of fish in there so that it can operate, and more jobs. MR. CALLAN: With the federal government though. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, that is not all, Proqrammes already announced - it is not a finance secret, it is not a budget secret- but programmes that have already been announced in this Province will bring jobs. On the offshore alone this year and last year, Mr. Speaker - MR. CALLAN: At what cost? MR.

DINN: Sometimes it really galls a minister in this government when the work that they do goes down the drain. A national energy programme came out a year and a half ago and what did it do? It sent 200 rigs from Alberta South and it took a programme for 1981 where we were going to have twelve to fifteen rigs out there drillinq- that is what the plan was in September before the programme came out, the national energy programme, that great programme that was supposed to supply Canada with self sufficiency by 1990- the ­ programme went from fifteen drill ·rigs off the Coast down to six last year.

On the six drill rigs alone we had over 1200 people employed in the offshore. And, Mr. Speaker, all you have to do is take the number of drill rigs that would have been out there,and the hon. member would have seen that the unemployed rate last year would not have decreased on that one policy statement alone by the federal government, the National Energy Programme, one statement and our unemployment rate not only would not have gone up but would have gone down last year in 1981, one alone. That is not to say about the 282

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 123 NM- 2 MR . DINN: 25 , 000 metric tons of fish that we gave away to the Japanese and the 12,000 metric tons , or 14,000 metric tons, or 15,000 metric tons of fish that we gave and brought over to the Nova Scotian plants for processing over there. It had nothing to do with that at all 1 where we could pave s aved hundreds of more jobs . And, Mr. Speaker, talk about the federal government, in just policy in the 196,Qs we should have had a corridor through Quebec to transmit our electrical energy and we ~1ould not hav<: had to giv~ it away - PREMIER PECKFORD: That is right. MR.

DINN: - at that time . PREMIER PECI<FORD: Right you are . Right you are . MR. DINN : We would not have had to give it away. And, Mr . Speaker, they ,could have done it since last year put a bill through the House o£ Commons in Ottawa, and Mt. Speaker, we would not have a problem with unemployment. We would not have a problem with unemployment, Mr . Speaker, in this Province . Hydro alone, thousands of jobs if we could develop that Lower Churchill and get a reasonable return on that investment . 7\s it is, Mr . Speaker, there nre SOO jobs created in hydro in this Province, Mr .

Speaker, centred around the resources . Opper Salmon alone 500 jobs, Mr . Speak ·er, during the construction phase . Offshore , as I said before, last year 283

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 12~ MJ ·· 1 MR. J. DINN: with six drill rigs. Over 1,200 jobs, 2,200 actually,but 1,200 Newfoundlanders that are being trained. Six hundred and fifty by the way, hon. members may not know, were trained last year for work in the offshore. Mr. Speaker, the projects that I outlined,by the way, in that program that we sent to the Federal Minister of Employment and Immigration would have been for housing, for example, 3,000 jobs, industrial ~evelopment 1,000 jobs, Tourism 2,400 jobs, Fisheries 6,000 jobs, Forestry 3,600 jobs, Energy 6,400 jobs. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

DINN: Policy alone. Not dollars, just policy, Mr. Speaker. And that is what is wrong with this country right now. I agree with the hon. member, there is not enough co-operation, that this political pork barrelling has to stop federally so that we can get down to solving the problems of unemployment, not only in this Province but in this country, Mr. Speaker. These are only some of the projects that have been announced this year by this government, forget about the 8,000 jobs, or so, that were saved by the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. J. Morgan) in one fell swoop, by saving these plants.

In transportation projects alone that have already been announced, we will have 985 jobs. Subsidized housing program, announced by the Minister of Housing, 340 jobs. Land development projects 50 jobs. A total of 1,375 jobs. That is action, Mr. Speaker. The hon. member asked,what are you doing[ Well, Mr. Speaker, that is some of it.And , Mr. Speaker, we will get the other plants opened. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. DINN: But we need a little bit of co-operation like the hon. member outlined,and I suggest he talk to his federal counterparts and see if they can get something going.

It is not just dollars we are talking about, 284

May 12, 1982 Tape No . 124 MJ - 2 MR . J . DINN : we are talkinq about a few policy changes, }tr . Speaker, whereby - l just nave a news letter here from Abitibi -Price and it says, 'New agreement signed . ' Not provincial dollars just turfee out to create new cemetery fences . But the hon . the Minister of Forestry, (Mr . C. Power) a man that has done a fantastic job s.incc he has taken over that portfolio - SOME BON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! MR . DINN : -signed an agreement with Abitibi -Price the other day . Some 800 man months of jobs in the forestry sector . That is resource development .

That is what it is all based on, al~ centered around, Mr . Speaker . I complimnet the Resource Ministers for the task that we did a year or so ago in presenting a program to the federal government so they would not \llaste fool ishly this Canada Work 's money,so that we could develop our resources . Mr . Speaker, I conpl~ment the member for having the courage to side with this side of the Bouse for once in his life and brin g in a resolution that is toe to toe with us . Mr . ~n~akcr . 285

May 12, 1982 Ta pe No . 125 MR . DINN : That is onr bread and !)utter, that is what this government is all about, developing the resources both - SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh . MR . SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, please ! MR . DINN : - in the resource sector and the human resource , Hr . Speaker, I have outlined . SOME RON . ME~mERS : Hear, hear. so - 1 MR . SPEAKER : l>tR . NP.RREN : The bon . member for Torngat Mountains. Mr . Speaker, I rise in support of this motion put forward by my colleague from Terra Nova (Mr . Lush) . I am sure, Mr .

Speaker, if we look back over the last two or three years , my hon . colleague from Terra Nova has puc forward many , many good resolutions in this House ,and if only the government had paid as much attention to the ones that he put forward in '79 and '80 and '81 - AN liON . MEMBER : And '75. MR . \•JARRF.N : - and '75 and '76 and all those in the last eight or nine years, I am sure it would not be necessary for this motion today . This is the problem , Mr . Speaker, as my colleague from Bellevue (Mr . Callan) just said .

The government has been wasting its time, has been wasting its ~ime for the last seven or eight years . And if the hon . ~nister of Labour and Manpower (Mr . Dinn) and the hon . Premier at the tim e,and the hon . Premier presently had l~stened to my colleague from Terra Nova for the tast five or six years . then this resolution would not be necessary today . Mr . Speaker, if we look at this Province fran St. John's to Nain, we can divide it up into what you call good , bet~er and best . Then you can go on the other side of the spectrum and you can go from good to worse and worst . So, ~rr .

Speaker , what I am 286

May 12 , 1982 Tape No . 125 so - 2 MR . WARREN : trying to say is that in St . John 's you cut off the overpass and you h<1ve, I \IIO Uld v~nturc to say , per capita, more people .,.,orkinq than anywhere else i.n the Province . An d you go out further over the overpass,as far as Clarenville,and then you have a little higher percentage of unemployment . Then yo:.~ go on the \·lest Coast and you bal<1ncc off again . But once, Mr . Speaker , you go across the Straits and go up to the unknO\.;n land, as far as this government i.s concerned, this gover nment is only concerned about Labrador because o( \llhat it can get out not for what it puts back . 267

May 12, 1982 Tape 126 EC - 1 MR. Wl\RHEN: notice today - Mr. Speaker If we look at Labrador and today I did a calculation just in my district alone, that come five days time most of the people in my district will receive their last unemplo2~ent insurance cheque. AN HON. MEMBER: The final one. ~'!R. WARRE~ : That is right, they will receive their ]ast unemployment insurance cheque. 7\nd I will be the first to say that the federal government is a disgrace to let this happen to fishermen in Newfoundland and Labrador. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I believe that the unemployment insurance regulations should be extended to fishermen as well as fish plant workers or anyone else in the labour force. That is one thing that is wrong with our unemployment insurance regulations at the present time. And I have addressed this for the past two or three years to the federal government,but I am obJiged to say I am not getting any further ahead with it than anyone on the government side is. HR . !3AI rm : Send me a copy . MR. HARREN: Yes, I would be only too glad to send the hon. the member for Humber West a copy of my latest letter that I wrote to the hon.

Lloyd Axworthy explaining my frustrations with the unemployment insurance regulations. I would be only too glad to give him a copy. Now, Mr. Speaker, I did this calculation, and, you know, I was shocked with what I discovered. I am going to start with Rigolet and go to Nain. In Rigolet come this weekend - now this is a rough calculation - there will be 82 per cent unemployed. In Makkovik - now this is just a rough calculation in trying to find out the number of fishermen in the place who will have their unemployment insurance cut off and 288

l-1ay 12, 1982 Tape 126 EC - 2 MR . NARHE)I : the people now who are on social assistance; 82 per cent of the population of the \vOrking force, roughly 260 people iri Rigolet . So you qo to Mak.kovik and you get roughly 350 people in Makkovik and of the population of that community you will see 72 per cent unemployed after this weekend . You go to Hopedale with a population of roughly 450 to 500 . Th e rate of unemployment will rise from 72 per cent in Makkovik up to 84 per cent in Hopedale .

You go to Davis Inlet, an Indian community - and I am omitting the teachers who are transient in those places, I am just talking about the people who continuously live there . Now , in Davis Inlet, an Indian population , Mr . Speaker, it is an aston ishing fact that there will be 94 per cent unemployed in Davis Inlet come this \>leek end . 28~

May 12, 1982 Tape No.l27 so - 1 MR. ~"lARREN: So if we go and target those communities and look at the rate of unemployment once the fishing scasbn contribution stamps are used up,then we will find out, Mr. Speaker, for the next two months that it is just staggering. And finally we look at Nain, a population of roughly 1,000 people and come this weekend the figures will range somewhere between 68 per cent and 75 per cent will be unemployed. Now, Mr. Speaker, it is fine and dandy, even down in Grand Bank. And I would like to welcome my good friend of many, many ye~rs,into the House, from Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews). If I can

preamble for a second, I do not know whether he taught me how to play soccer or whether I taught him how to play soccer,but we did play soccer together anyhow. So, Mr. Speaker, even people in Grand Bank today do have an opportunity that far exceeds anybody living in Labrador and , in particular ·, along the Labrador Coast. MR. TULK: He is not as good at soccer as you thought. MR. WARREN: They can get aboard their car, if they have a vehicle,or get aboard a taxi or something like that, and they can come into St.

John's and they can look for employment and probably at a cost of $20 or $30 or $40 or $50, something like that. Bu~ Mr. Speaker, if a person in Hopedale or Davis Inlet wanted to come and start lookin~ for a job,it is gcing to cost him $1,000 before he gets his fjrst interview in St. John's. And this is one of the problems, Mr. Speaker, there is no work available in the communities and subsequently they have no alternative but to live on Social Assistance, through no fault of their own, live on Social Assistance until the fishing season starts again. AN !ION. MEMBER: (Inaudible) 2911

May 12, 1982 Tape No . 127 so - 2 MR . \vARREN : No . In fact, that constitu ent is still going around here in St . John's and wherever he can find somebody with fifty cents or a dollar in his pocket to buy a lunch for him, he is still looking for that . And this is just an example, ~~ . Speaker, of the destitute position that some of the people in my district are in . MR . HODDER : Is Ill.' wen k inlJ·,• MR . WARREN : No , he is still not \-.rorkin q. In fact , he is living in a boarding house do\vnto\'ln but he is still not working - nothing . MR . HODDER : Has he worked since (inaudible) . MR .

WARREN : Nothing since then at all , no . !Tlr . Speaker , if we take the money that the federal government has pumped into the Provi ~ce of Newfoundland and Labrador 29 •1

Nay 12 , 1982 Tape No . 128 NM - 1 M.R . WARREN : ~ithin the past number of years and left it up to the ?rovince, and left it up to the Province, we would find that the unemployment average of 15 per cent now would b~ much , much qreatcr . Unemployment in this Province would be much, much greater than 15 per cent . Mr .

Speaker , I know it is very difficult for some hon . members on che other side of this House to give the federal government some credit and that is credit for - and in some instances by the way, I ~ay as well add that it is purely a waste of money, but some of those projects, those community development projec~s, at least are supplementing some people's income . Now I, for one , think that it should be monitored better . I think it should be used for more useful purposes . I remember there not too long ago I visited a town not far from St . John 's and I noticed a sign up on the road, "Women Working" .

I have nothing against women working, I think there should be as many jobs for women as possible . MR . PAT'l'ERSON : to!ake work not war . [>!R . WARREN : No, there was no sign "Make {-lork Not War" , but Lh~rc was a sic;n marked up, "Women Working ." So as I drove through, there were supposed to be thirteen or fourteen people employed on this project - ~1R . PATTERSON : Were they topless? MR . WARREN: No , Mr. Speaker , they Here not topless at the time, but if we leave alone what is going on today probably when the project comes out next year there miqht be some topless women involved . But, however, Mr .

Speaker, if I may be permitted to go ahead , here we have this project that, under any tendering act, even one as loose as the Tendering 282

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 128 NM - 2 MR. WARREN: Act of this government , even by this government's Tendering Act, if this project had gone out on tender it could have been completed for at least $35,000, and that is going to the limit . But, you know, that project is not finished yet, and it is still up in the high sixtie s and it is going to go up to around $73,000 or $74,000, before it is finished . And I was wondering 1·1hy, I 1.,.as wond ering why, and I noticed some of the reasons wh y, they are tryino to get women to do men's work . Now let me try to elaborate a bit by saying in all respect to women, I do not think there is a position available 293

May 12, 1982 Tape 129 PK - l MR. I'JARREN: {or women to be up on the side of the hills picking up rocks, number one, rocks and stones that are too heavy for them to lift from the ground to the wheelbarrow. In fact, I could give you instances, in this community, where two women had to leave their jobs because they found out that the work was too hard for them. So, therefore, if they found that the work was too hard for them, surely ~oodncss the Government of Canada who sponsored this project, should have the projects assigned to people who can qualify for those jobs. And, Mr.

Speaker, I do not believe that this kind of physical work should be carried out by women when there are so many unemployed men in the community. That is one thing I find wrong, Mr. Speaker, with these community projects. I, for one, will get up and say it time and time again, I will say it in any of the election campaigns, that I would like for women to work at the jobs that they are most suited for. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. WI\RREN: Now, Mr. Speaker, jf I may continue. By the way, I wo~ld like to welcome Your Honour to the Chair. You do look dignified in that position, Sir.

I am sure that you will bring good decorum to this House, and,with respect to the former Speaker (Mr. Simms), you will do equally as good a job, Sir. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Those in favour "Aye". MR. lvARREN : Mr. Speaker, I would also like to say that when the federal government talks about unemployment insurance regulations, and it has to tie 294

~£ May 12, 1982 Tape 129 PI< - 2 MR . \'1..\\RREN : i.n with the employment force , no doubt about that , they have to make drastic changes . In response to my hon . friend from Humber West (Mr . B~ird) who asked m0 abo ut a lctt0r I wrote to the hon . Lloyd AxworthY,I want to tell the hon . Hou se the answer I got back, part of the an sv1 er I got back . I said in my request to him, 'Look, the unemployme nt i:1surancc regulation shou ld be defined for different areas of Canada .

Take, for example , in Hopedale \·lh ere there is ju st a three mo nth fishing season and there is no other employment availabl e, then, I said, any ne w people In the l~b01 1 r for ce should not be required to have twenty contribut ions . So I got the answer back which shocked me, and I wrote to him again , by the way . He said that if we do that for Hoped ale, for example, we will have to do it for Toronto . No w what has Toronto 295

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 130 NM - l MR. WARREN: got in common with a little small community on the sixty-fifth parallel? And here was a minister belonging to Edmonton somewhere, who does not know that you just cannot have une~pl9yment insurance regulations uniform. There is no way that the unemployment insurance regulations can be uniform and penefit the people. And I was shockced that the Minister of Employment and Immigration (Mr. Axworthy) wrote ba.ck and said, "No, we cannot change it." So I agree with the hon. member for Humber West (Mr. Baird), that look, we cannot have that.

And I think there has to be conditions made to t.ie in with the ·~oqraphical location of the Province, and not only of the Province but of Canada as a whole. Mr. Speaker, before I sit down I want to say to the hon. members that I support this petition. I believe we have to start tomorrow, and a little bit of co­ operation in some fields with the federal government would not hurt, it would help probably. So I would suggest that both levels of government, through the Minister ·of Labour and Manpower (Mr.

Dinn) probably, and through the Minister of Employment and Immigration, could work out a system and we could get the economy moving again. Because let us face it, we arc as close to a recession as possible in this Province. We are probably gone below it. In fact, I do not know when we are going to see the economy in this Province turn around. And with the way that this government has been functioning within the past three and-a-half years, at least since 1979, I am afraid that we are in for another three and­ a-half years of hard, hard Tory Times. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 286

May 12, 1982 Tape No . 130 NM - 2 SOME BON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh ~ MR . SPEAKER (Dr . McNicholas): The hon . Minister of social Services . SOME HON . t-1EMBERS: Hear, hear ~ MR . HICKEY : I would like first o£ all, given the fact that this is my first opportunity to say a few words in the new Assembly, offer my congratulations to all hon . members who got themselves re-elected, and, Mr . Speaker , I do not find much new listening to some of my friends on the oppos ~te side from the past House. t-ffi .NEARY : Now, now . Now, now . MR .

HICKEY : I om astounded Lo hear my colleague from Torngat Mountains (Mr . l~arren) say that - MR . WARREN : Do not be harsh. MR . HICKEY : - we are getting close to a rece ssion . Mr . Speaker, 297

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 131 IB-1 MR. HICKEY: tne hon. gentleman is not awure we are in one. We arc getting close to a depression. And the other thing I am astounded to hear him say is that it is this Province. It is not, Mr. Speaker, it is this entire country. MR. WARREN: It is the Province too. MR. HICKEY: Yes,well,we cannot very well help ,that because we are part of it, are we not? MR. ROBER'l'S: Only when we want to. MR. HICKEY: Not only when we want to, Mr. Speaker.

Ron. gentlemen should have learned from April 6th. that it gets them nowhere to always be negative and to try to make us unCanadian on this side of the House. 'l.'hey have failed miserably in their attempt to convince the people of this Province that anyone over here is anything but a proud Canadian. The difference in the two sides of the House and the people on both sides of the House is simply this, that the people on this side and the Premier of this Province who led this party to a resounding victory on April 6th. say, "We will stand up for Newfoundland first because we are a have not Province".

Now that is the difference, Mr. Speaker. However, I do not want to be distracted from the issue at hand. I would like to come back to the question of unemployment, Mr. Speaker, because nobody in this House has more feeling and compassion for the unemployed than I. And I am privileged to be in a position to know very clearly how pressed and how depressed and how difficult it is for the unemployed in this Province. My portfolio, the very portfolio that I hold, allows me, Mr.

Speaker, to see in the most vivid way the difficulties and the very critical situation that so many of our people find themselves in through no fault of tneir own. 298

May 12, 198 2 'l'c:pe No. 131 IB-2 MR . HICKEY: Mr . Speaker , the hon . gentleman said something - as I tllall<ed into the Chamber I just caught part of it - ana he said something about the fact that in a fetll days time when the unemployme nt insurance is finished there wil l be x number of people une mployed . And, Mr. Speaker , I say that it is that kind o f thinking by Liberal pol1ticians - and I am sorry I have to be partisa~ here - that has g otten us in the mess we are in . Are not those people unempl o::.ted now if they are o n unemploym e nt insurance? I mean , they are not employed . AN H6N.

MEMBER: 'rhey are being well paid though. MR . HICKEY: Look, you can say t·That you l ike . The hon . gentlem .an has to acknowle dge the fact that someb ody drat11ing unemployment insur:ance is not workin g . He or she did t.;rork but , you know, they a r e not working when they are drawing unemployment insurance . And unemployment insurance, Mr. Speaker , is not and should not ever be or become a way of life . 29 ~

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 132 SD - 1 MR. lltCKEY: Mr. Speaker, we support this resolution in principle. We suppoit any resolution which is ~oiny to bring a resolve to the very difficult situation we find ourselves in. This government and the past administration, Mr. Speaker, stands ready to co-operate with the federal government but not only on the terms of the federal government which would see us not get our just rights. Surely goodness we must not be expected to co-operate for the sake of co-operating at the expense of our people, at the expense of our birthright.

And that is really what is at the crux of all of this. The former administration, Mr. Speaker, that just ended before the election had done it homework. How many DREE agreements are there in Ottawa not signed? How long have we waited and how hard have we pressed ror the siyninq of ~greemcnt5? ~1r. Speaker, the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Morgan), the Premier of this ~rovince and the government as a whole have continuously said to the federal government, 'Give us some say over our very basic and most important resource - the fishery, so that we can further exploit that fishery so as to create more jobs and more jobs, so that we can further process, so that we can increase the effort of the inshore which is the very backbone of rural ~ewfoundland and Labrador'. Mr. Speaker, what is the response to that? Negative all the way.

I have heard hon. gentlemen say in the past few days that this Assembly is very young, it is only a few days old, and yet, Mr. Speaker, I have heard hon. gentlemen on the opposite side talk about unemployment wh i.r:h •·ras brought about by the closure of fish plants. MR. NEARY: That is right. MR. HICKEY: And, Mr. Speaker, I cannot forget 1 as much as I would like to, what I heard during the past election campaign,where the blame for the closure of the fish plants in this Province had been placed at the doorstep 300

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 132 SD - 2 ~iR . HICKEY : of this government . Hon. qenclemen know that the jurisdiction over fishery to a large extent· n0t fish plants, I know , not fish plants-is in the hands of t:u:l federal government . Mr . Speaker , bon . gentlemen on the other side know that the raw material for fish plants is fish ~nd that the federal governmcnl controls Lo ..t ldr<JI.! cxLcnL Lho~l .. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh , oh . MR . NEARY : What about Tapper 's Cove. MR . HICKEY : Mr .

Speaker, you know, 'l'app< r 's Cove is going to be looked after because they are going to sell their catch the same way as they always have . MR . NEARY : I had to bring a fish into the house one time . MR . HICKEY : Yes , t realize the hon . gentleman did and hopefully he will not have to ?ring one in this year . MR . NEAR Y: I will if I have to . 30 .,

May 12, 1982 Tape 133 PK -l MR. HICKEY: Well, you know, Mr. Speaker, this government have done its part. In fact, it has gone beyond doing its part to see to is that plants in this Province have been and continue to be reopened. But, Mr. Speaker, it lS not enough to say that because fish plants are closed that it is the responsibility of any government, in total. MR. TULK: It is the federal government all the time. MR. HICKEY: The Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) pinpoints certain areas where indeed the federal government is at fault, certainly.

But the Minister of Fisheries will also be the first to acknowledge that it has something to do with market conditions. And the market conditions which are depressed at the moment, Mr. Speaker, have a direct connection with high interest rates in this country. And if the federal government lS not in control of high interest rates, I beg you, who lS? It is not this government. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. HICKEY: Nevertheless, the hon. gentleman's former Leader 6f the Opposition (Mr.

Stirling) during the election campaign went to great length, even to hold on to a lock on the gate of a flsh plant, to pinpoint the responsibility as being the Provincial Governments. MR. N r:l\RY: Where? Where was this? MR. HICKEY: Ah, Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: Where was the plant? MR. HICKEY: It was up the Shore. I think, it was up the Southern Shore. MR. NEARY: Martin O'Brien's? MH.. HICKEY: Yes. And, Mr. Speaker, I will not go into any more detail to say anything else about that plant 302

May 12 , 198<! r-lR . RICKEY : SOME BON . MEMBERS : Tape 133 becaus e, Mr . Speaker , - on, on ! l'h - 2 MR . HICKEY: we will find out in due course what happens to that plant and we wi.Ll also know \"hY it happened . But never~~eless, that was used ~n the campai~n . Mr . Speaker, it goes without saying that there ilre companies, to nq -st.:tnding companies , n>hlfhllltt.'S, Mr . Speaker, wnich have made a tremendous contribution to th ~ economy of this Province a·nd have provided a lot of jo 1:s over the year s that have gone bankrupt and are going bankru~t because of what?

Because of som ething this government have done or not done? No , Mr. Speaker . N0, ~tl·. ~pc:1k<'r . ~(' . Absolutely no . And any fair -minded individual on the other s~de, Mr . Speaker, will acknowledge that the bankruptcies in this Province or, for that matter, across th is counLry have nothing to do with Prov~ncial Governments, have not one io ta to do with Provincial Governments . Mr . Speakex·. it has to do with high Lnterest rates . SOM .E HON . t-\EMBERS: Hear, hear ! MR . HICKEY: lligh interest ra tes . And wh o controls high interest rates? I ask again . MR . TULK : How about Reagan? 303

Hay 12, 1982 Tape No . 134 RA - 1 MR. T. HICKEY : I mean,one can almost suffer from nausea listening to people ~-1ho have obviously buried their heads in the sand for political reasons, Mr . Speaker. Because if they did not have their heads buried in the sand for political reasons,and I will be kind to them because they are too intelligent - t1R . LUSH : t4R. t!ICKEY : We know . Honourable gentlemen on the opposite side are too intelligent, Mr . Speaker, not to know . So one can assume they do know different than what they say . But no, Mr .

Speaker , they \'lill not acknowledge that the Prime Ninister of this country has got this country on its knees, its economic knees . MR. NEARY : ------ I heard him say the other day that it was Reagan's faJlt . MR. lUCKEY : Pardon? HR . NEARY : I beard him say the other day that it \-Ia: ; Reagan's fault . MR. HICKEY : ---- Oh , yes,of course,he blames it on Reaaan . HR. l:iODDER : The same as you blame it on him . ~IR. NEi\RY : --- You blame it on Ottawa . MR . HICKEY: ~lr .

Speaker, the Premier of this Pro- vince put forward a proposal to ~he Conference on Economic Conditions in this country and so did other premiers across the country. And what did the Prime Minister say is more important. The Prime Minister just shrugged his shoulders as usual, as usual, Mr . Speaker. Hon . gentlemen, Mr . Speaker, will find no problem in getting the support from hon . members on this side of the House, this entire government . if they ~o;ant to put 3utt

May 12, 1982 Tape No . 134 Ri\ - 2 MR . T . HICKEY : forward resolutions like this \"hich as)5. for and call for a C:O'""'[_:erative effort by the Federal Govern­ ment and Provincial Government to do almost anything that affe cts our people Hithin reason . And,Mr . Speaker, not only that , this administration just commencing now from the 6th of April election , and the former administration over the last two and- one -half years , have demonstrated clearly, Hr . Speak er , our homework is done . We have put forward proposals to ye t the economy moving again .

We have put forward proposals that are l abour int ensive , job creative . What has ha~ to them? Where ar e they? If the Federal Government \vants to get this countrx moving aga in , Mr . Speaker , there are \vays they can do it . But as the Prime Minister will be quick to acknowledge; if l?t:csident. Reagan sneezes - no , I am sorry- tf President Reagan coughs, Pierre Trudeau sneezes and Allan MacEachen , \<lell , he probably phone s the governor of the Royal Banr .. And that is a sad s ituat ­ i on I ~lr.

Speaker . :Xou know I about the best contribution the Prime Minister of tb~s country could give the Canadian people would be to resign . ~o the Canadian people a favour and re­ sign , se~ ing that he has done 3iJ5

May 12, 1982, Tape 135, Page l -- apb MH. HICKEY: precious little, Mr. Speaker, except to throw his hands in the air or shrug his shoulders in the typical way and say, you know, 'Let them eat cake'. When asked one day about senior citizens and how they were going to cope with the high cost of living,his response was, 'Let them eat cake'. MR. TULK: What is your department - MR. HICKEY: Pardon? MR. TULK: What is your department saying? MR. HICKEY: I am glad the hon. gentleman mentioned that. Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman should stop digging holes for himself.

If he wants to know what my department says I will tell him. In the past year we have created 2,000 jobs. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. HICKEY: In the past year, Mr. Speaker, we have taken almost two hundred unfortunate citizens of this Province who have been in receipt of assistance for seven to ten years and we have put them through a life skills training programme and some of them have found jobs. That is what my department is doing. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. HICKEY: All in the interest, Mr. Speaker, of God helps ::Chose who help themselves, or who want to help themselves.

And that is the philosophy of this department. MR. NEARY: What would you do if they take away the money that comes from Ottawi\~ MR. HICKEY: Yes, sure. Mr. Speaker, if the hon. gentleman who proposed this resolution wants to 306

May 12, 1982, Tape 135, Page 2 -- apb MR. HICKEY: make a contribution which might well see his name go down in history, he might get his friends in Ottawa to do one thing "•hich can save the taxpayers of thi s Province - last year $2 .5 million, the year before that $2 million, the year before that $2 million . Now that is if it were to be made retroactive. Employment opportunities nno community development in this Province through my department alone, Mr . Speaker, last year spent $5 million , S? million of provincial funds. When I asked the federal government repeatedly 'w ill you cost share?' No .

Will not cost share. And yet, Mr . Speaker, when faced wi th ~ dilemm~ Mr . Axworthy turns around and his solution to the Canadian dilemma of unemployment is what? Make work . And then, God help us, the former Leader of the Opposition got sucked in and he waged a campaign that said, 'Make work not war' , and, l'!r . Spcukcr , I suggest to hon . members in this House, that is not the ans\"er, to make work .

We \.,oill make work in my department to introduce people who have been out of the labour market for years back into the labour market , but let us find something more progressive and more constructive to do than to just make a bunch of jobs . MR. WARREN : (Inaudible). MR . HICKEY : That is what I am doing in my department and so I should . 3u7

May 12, 1982 Tape No. 136 IB-1 MR. HICKEY: This is not a government, Mr. Speaker, of handouts, th~s is a government of compassion, a government that helps, a government that will help those who show in the slightest way that they want to be helped. And, Mr. Speaker, furthermore, a qovernment that does not see people suffer, a government that looks after the needy, a government that looks after the mentally retarded, a government that looks after the senior citizens and does its damnedest, Mr. Speaker, to improve life for those people. MR. NEARY : They take away what Ottawa qivcs us on the one hand.

They take away what Ottawa gives us. MR. SPEAKER (AYLWARD) : Order, please! MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, hon. gentlemen need do nothing more to show their good faith, if they give two hoots about the oeople of this Province that they represent, too, as members of this Legislature, if they did nothing else, Mr. Speaker, but got the federal government to cost share our efforts in just one department, one department. MR. HODDER : They slapped down a ten per cent increase on social assistance just before election time. MR. HISCOCK: Tried to buy them. MR. HICKEY: Ah, Mr.

Speaker, I am glad tho hon. qentleman - another hon. qcntleman bites the dust because he digs a hole for himself. When are they going to learn? Does the hon. gentleman think I am going to deny, Mr. Speaker, that I placed a notice in with the cheques telling the people of this Province who are so unfortunate as to have to rely on social assistance for a livelihood that your cheques are going to be increased by ten per cent? The answer, Mr. Speaker, is yes, and I did it proudly. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. HICKEY: A government of compassion once again. But, Mr.

Speaker, the hon. gentlemen will try to make politics. 308

Tape No. 136 IB-2 ·May 12, 1982 MR. NEARY: Now they will be taking away the increase again. MH. HICKEY: not listen now. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. HICKEY: Why does the non. gentleman Oh, oh! Why does the hon. gentleman not listen now, he having dug his hole. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. HICKEY: MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Mr. Speaker, may I have order. Order, please! . I would like to remind hon. gentlemen that the speaker has the right to be heard in silencE'. MR. NEARY: Wait till the budget comes down, they will lose it in a hur ry. MR. HICKEY: Thank ·you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the