British Columbia Hansard — Wednesday, April 9, 2008

H0409pm-03

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Wednesday, April 9, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Volume 30, Number 3 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR His Honour the Honourable Steven L. Point, OBC FOURTH SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon.

Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ........................................................................................................ Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon. Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ................................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon. Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon.

Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon.

Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General and Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations............... Hon. John van Dongen Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon.

Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of State for ActNow B.C. ............................................................................................................................................ Hon. Gordon Hogg Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Deputy Speaker ...........................................................................................................................................................................

Katherine Whittred Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole................................................................................................................................................. Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E.

George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D. Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H.

James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon.

Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................ East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, David (NDP) ......................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................ Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon.

Gordon (L).....................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Hon. Kevin (L) .....................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, John (L)........................................................................ Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas............................................................................... John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay................................................................................

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ............................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................Hon.

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Wednesday, April 9, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Statements..................................................................................................................... .......................................................... 11113 Battle of Vimy Ridge Hon. G.

Campbell Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................ 11113 Tributes ....................................................................................................................... ............................................................ 11113 Mike Gray Hon. G.

Abbott Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................ 11114 Tributes ....................................................................................................................... ............................................................ 11114 Reg Scholfield D.

Routley Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................ 11115 Statements..................................................................................................................... .......................................................... 11115 Deaths of children in Merritt H.

Lali Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ....................................... 11115 Public Health Act (Bill 23) Hon. G. Abbott Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ........... 11116 Vaisakhi C. James Big Brothers and Big Sisters H. Bloy Ridge Meadows Seniors Society health and wellness program M. Sather Wild at Art Festival J. McIntyre Women of the World event R.

Chouhan Guildford Community Partners Society D. Hayer

Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ....................................................... 11117 Deaths of children in Merritt H. Lali Hon. G. Campbell Ferry safety G. Coons Hon. M. de Jong Frank Paul public inquiry M. Farnworth Hon. J. van Dongen Hon. W. Oppal J. Kwan L. Krog Funding for forestry programs at College of New Caledonia R. Fleming Hon. M. Coell Future of Elk Falls sawmill C. Evans Hon. R. Coleman B. Simpson Penalty provisions for mining industry N. Macdonald Hon. K. Krueger Safety inspections of mines C.

Puchmayr Hon. K. Krueger Petitions...................................................................................................................... ............................................................. 11122 J. Horgan Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................. 11122 Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Renewable and Low Carbon Fuel Requirements) Act (Bill 16) (continued) N. Macdonald B. Simpson B. Ralston M. Karagianis Hon. R.

Neufeld Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Cap and Trade) Act (Bill 18) Hon. B. Penner S. Simpson On the amendment S. Simpson M. Sather Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................. 11151 Estimates: Ministry of Agriculture and Lands (continued) Hon. P. Bell C. Evans S. Fraser G. Robertson B. Simpson M. Farnworth G. Gentner N. Simons R. Austin

11113 WEDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 The House met at 1:35 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Prayers. Statements BATTLE OF VIMY RIDGE Hon. G. Campbell: Hon. Speaker, today we mark the 91st anniversary of the Battle of Vimy Ridge. On this day in 1917 four divisions of the Canadian Corps attacked together in formation for the first time, ad- vancing at the dawn on Vimy Ridge. It was a battle in which 3,598 Canadians made the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of freedom and democracy, and it was also a turning point for our great nation.

To this day the courage and sacrifice of those sol- diers at Vimy Ridge serves as an inspiration to all Ca- nadians. Their legacy is a constant reminder to all of us of our duty to defend the ideals that they fought for. I ask today that this House join me in paying trib- ute to those who gave so much at Vimy Ridge and all who served in the great wars that followed and all who today carry on that proud tradition around the world of protecting freedom, protec ting people and trying to build a better future for all of us. Introductions by Members D. Chudnovsky: You will know, Mr.

Speaker, be- cause I have told you on a number of occasions, that the two best high schools in British Columbia are in Vancouver-Kensington. Toda y we have as guests a number of students, I think 68 of them, with their teachers and supervisors visiting from Sir Charles Tupper Secondary School in Vancouver-Kensington. I had an opportunity before lunch to chat with them on the steps. It was terrific to meet with them. Could you please welcome the students from Sir Charles Tupper. Hon. S.

Bond: Today we are absolutely delighted to be joined in the gallery by a group of 20 individuals from across this province who make a difference in the lives of families and children every single day. These individuals are members of the B.C.

chapter of Big Brothers Big Sisters of Canada, who deliver an invalu- able program called Mentoring Excellence B.C. Leading the delegation today are Rhonda Brown, executive director of the Greater Victoria chapter; Doug Blott, the B.C. national board representative; Doug Sheach, treasurer for the Abbotsford chapter; and speaking very personally, someone that we know very well from Price George, Tim Bennett, who is incredibly a c t i v e i n o u r c o m m u n i t y a n d i n f a c t j u s t r e c e n t l y o r - ganized the Prince George Bowl for Kids Sake fund- raiser.

We had a team that participated, and I'm proud to say that a record level of funding was actually gar- nered at that event. We also have Alex Mitchell here, who is a grade 10 student and a Big Sister in the teen mentoring program. I know that every member of the House will join me in making them welcome and, I hope, will join Big Brothers Big Sisters later today as we celebrate the mentoring program. Please join me in making them welcome. R.

Austin: It's not often that I have a guest visiting in the precinct, but today I' m very delighted to intro- duce my father David Austin, who is here all the way from Melbourne, Australia. He's come for a week to see how business is done here and to attend a family cele- bration. Would the House please join me in making him welcome. Hon. I. Chong: Today in the gallery and observing us for question period are a number of individuals I know we are all familiar with.

They are the members of the UBCM executive, and I would like to introduce them to you. [1340] We have Mayor Ella Brown, who is the small- community representative from the district of Logan Lake; Councillor Kim Capri, Vancouver representative from the city of Vancouve r; Mayor Sharon Hartwell, the second vice-president representing the village of Telkwa; Director Rhona Martin, the SILGA representative from the Columbia-Shuswap regional district; Director Terry Raymond, electoral area representative from the Fraser Valley regional district; Director Rod Sherrell, the AVICC representative from Mount Waddington regional district; Councillor Mary Sjostrom, director-at- large from the city of Ques nel; Director Heath Slee, AKBLG representative from East Kootenay regional district; Mayor Joe Snopek, director-at-large from the town of Creston; and Councillor Barbara Steele, the Metro Vancouver representative from the city of Surrey.

I hope the House would please make them all very welcome. They're here for a number of days. Tributes MIKE GRAY Hon. G. Abbott: It's with great sadness that I in- form the House of the tragic loss of Mike Gray, a B.C. Ambulance Service paramedic who suffered a sudden and unexpected collapse while he was working for the B.C. Ambulance Service in the Lower Mainland yesterday afternoon. Mr. Gray was a 39-year-old paramedic. He was an 11-y ear veteran of the B.C. Ambulance Service, who worked in Vancouver and across the Fraser Valley providing emergency medical services to the residents of British Columbia.

This incident is a great shock to all at the B.C. Am- bulance Service. I'd ask members to keep the family and loved ones in mind in their thoughts and prayers today, as we mourn his passing.

11114 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 Introductions by Members Hon. G. Abbott: On a different and much happier note, I'd like to introduce four very illustrious guests who are with us in the gallery today. Dr. Perry Kendall is B.C.'s provincial health officer. Dr. Brian Emerson is a medical consultant in th e Ministry of Health. Dr. Richard Stanwick is chief medical health officer for the Vancouver Island Health Authority, and Mark Collison is the director of advocacy and stakeholder relations with the Heart and Stroke Foundation.

They are here with us today to celebrate the intro- duction of new legislation that I'll have the privilege of sharing with the House in a few moments. All of these gentlemen, particularly Dr. Kendall and Dr. Emerson, have worked very hard to assist in putting the new Public Health Act together. I'd ask the House to make all of the gentlemen welcome. C. Evans: The member for Skeena is quite a modest person, and he did not mention that the family celebration that his father has come to attend is his 50th birthday, which is today. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Continue, Member. C.

Evans: The second thing I wanted to do was no- tice and welcome Mayor Snopek from Creston. This is a great year to visit Victoria, Mayor Snopek, because it's the coldest spring in almost 20 years, and the Creston Blossom Festival will be the first sign of spring in British Columbia. Victoria has nothing yet for flowers. R. Hawes: In the gallery today we have who I really believe is the friendliest, most outgoing mayor in Brit- ish Columbia. For anyone who doesn't believe it, he'll be down later to shake your hand. That would be my good friend and an amazing guy, James Atebe, the mayor of Mission.

Along with James is Skip Bassford, the great presi- dent of the great University College of the Fraser Valley. They are joined by Dennis Clark, clerk from the district of Mission. Could the House please make all three of them most welcome. C. Wyse: Amongst all of the guests we have with us today, those from the UBCM, those from Big Brothers and Sisters, and the rest of our guests — I make them all welcome — in particular, I would like to recognize two special guests that are here today. That includes my older sister Carol, alon g with her husband Paul Molyski, who have come from Sunnyvale, California.

Carol is here to see how her younger brother is doing and behaving himself here in this sandbox. I'd ask all the House to join in making them welcome. [1345] Hon. W. Oppal: I want to introduce to the House Jorge Luis Donado, who is th e prosecutor in charge of the anti–organized crime

section of the public prosecu- tor's office in Guatemala; Ruben Antonio Molina, who is a senior trial prosecutor from the public prosecutor's office of Honduras; Rick Craig, executive director of the Law Courts Education So ciety; Cal Deedman, who is a senior prosecutor with the criminal justice branch. As well, there is Kendra Ashton, who is a grade 11 student from Sir Charles Tu pper School. She was a job placement student in my cons tituency office. She is a well-rounded student who plays flute, guitar and oboe.

She is a Girl Guides ranger — I'm sure I'm embarrassing her now when I'm saying this — and she's a soccer star as well. Would the House please make them all welcome. J. McIntyre: April 9 is also the birthday of a very special friend of mine, a former member of this House and in fact my predecessor as the member for West Vancouver–Garibaldi. Today is Ted Nebbeling's birthday. I think some of you may be aware that Ted is embarking on a very serious fight with cancer. I was hoping that everybody in the House today would join me in sending him our very best wishes and keeping him in our prayers and though ts.

If he's watching at home: happy birthday, Ted. D. Hayer: I would also like to recognize a very spe- cial guest in the gallery today, Barbara Steele. She's my constituent and a friend, and she's a very hard-working councillor from the city of Su rrey. She's in Victoria to attend a Union of B.C. Municipalities executive meeting. Also, as you know, this is the month of Vaisakhi. Vaisakhi is being celebrated in Surrey and in communi- ties throughout British Columbia and around the world.

Vaisakhi celebrations are important to the South Asian community and very important to the Sikh community, as it celebrates the birth of Khalsa in the Sikh religion. I ask all members to welcome Councillor Barbara Steele and to recognize and congratulate all of the South Asian and Sikh communities during these Vaisakhi celebrations. Hon. M. Coell: I have four guests in the Legislature today.

They're members of the Association of Professional Engineers and Geoscientists of British Columbia: their president Janet Benjamin, who is a pioneer of Power Smart in the province; their vice-president Margaret Li; their past president Tim Smith; and Derek Doyle, regis- trar. They're here for meetin gs with members over the next few days. Would the House please make them welcome. Tributes REG SCHOLFIELD D. Routley: I would like the House to offer condo- lences to the family of Reg Scholfield, the proprietor in Duncan of Reggie's Veggies. Reg died last weekend at the age of 62 in his sleep.

He and his wife Sharon founded their business in 1985. Reggie was a very generous

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11115 person, very helpful to our community. He was instru- mental in our youth soccer programs. I would like the House to share with me an expression of condolence to his family. Introductions by Members R. Hawes: I would like to welcome back our great colleague from Kelowna-Mission today. She's back, well on the road to recovery . I hope the recovery is speeding along and that she's going to be with us for a long, long time to come. Statements DEATHS OF CHILDREN IN MERRITT H. Lali: This is not the ideal circumstance under which I wish to address this assembly.

By now every one of us here in this chamber has heard of the tragic events on Sunday in my hometown of Merritt.

In stark contrast to other days, I wear black today in memory of the three innocent little children whose lives were un- necessarily and unmercifully taken on this past fateful Sunday while their mother had briefly gone to run an errand in town. [1350] Imagine a mother leavin g behind three young chil- dren at home for a brief spell to make a trip to the gro- cery store, only to come home and make the gruesome discovery that her three most p r e c i o u s g i f t s , t o w h o m she had given birth and had left behind cheerful and playing only moments before, had all been senselessly stabbed to death in the interval.

Imagine the horror, the shock, the disbelief, the distress, the fear, the sadness and the guilt that surely must have gone through her mind upon making this tragic discovery. I have lived in Merritt for over 42 years. Never has the community witnessed such an unimaginable trag- edy amongst our ranks. The friends of the victims, the school children, the neighbou rs, the first responders and the entire community are devastated. Merritt has lost three of its innocent children. The community has lost its innocence as the suspected killer, the father of the children, is the subject of a manhunt.

As the community tries to come to grips with this tragedy, I ask all my colleagues to keep Darcie Clarke, the mother of the children, and the people of Merritt in your thoughts and in your prayers and to join me in a brief moment of silence in memory of Kaitlynne, aged ten; Max, aged eight; and Cordon, aged five. May their souls rest in peace. Introduction and First Reading of Bills PUBLIC HEALTH ACT Hon. G. Abbott presented a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Public Health Act. Hon. G. Abbott: I move that Bill 23, the Public Health Act, be introduced and read a first time now.

Motion approved. Hon. G. Abbott: The new Public Health Act creates a modern legislative framework establishing the tools and provisions necessary to fulfil the commitments for a healthier British Columbia outlined in our recent throne speech. A few years ago Canada was affected by the global SARS outbreak. B.C. was re markably well served by our public health officials during that incident. How- ever, it brought to light across Canada the need for increased vigilance to global public health risks.

This legislation provides public health officials with the tools to quickly and effectively mobilize public health initiatives to address these global threats. If governments across Canada are going to ad- dress the sustainability of our public health care sys- tem, we need stronger tools to support health promo- tion initiatives. More than 1.3 million people in British Columbia suffer from one or more chronic conditions, and over 90,000 people suffer from four or more chronic conditions.

While these individuals represent 34 percent of the B.C. population, they consume 80 percent of the combined MSP, Pharmacare and acute care budgets. Addressing this challenge is fundamen- tal to the sustainability of our health care system for the future. While our government has already taken steps in addressing chronic diseases, we know there's much to do. We'll use the tools established by the new Public Health Act to ban the use of trans fats in the preparation of foods in scho ols, restaurants and food services establishments by 2010.

Through the tools in the Public Health Act we will be better placed to continue to make further investments to address chronic disease. Safe and healthy communities are another goal of public health and of this government. The new Public Health Act will address go vernment's throne speech commitment to require communities to include provi- sion for mental health and addiction service facilities in their community plans. The new Public Health Act is an important addition to our legislative toolkit th at we hope will serve the people of British Columbia for the next 100 years.

It is also a reflection of the fa ct that addressing public health issues is a job not only for the provincial gov- ernment but for local governments and for individual citizens themselves. I move that the bill be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. [1355] Bill 23, Public Health Ac t, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

11116 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 Statements (Standing Order 25B) VAISAKHI C. James: This month communities across B.C. will be celebrating Vaisakhi. The growing enthusiasm about the festival of Vaisakhi shows how much pride British Columbians take in the tradition and culture of B.C.'s Sikh, Indo-Canadian and South Asian communi- ties. Vaisakhi allows all of us to come together and celebrate the South Asian community's culture as part of our province's collective heritage. It helps us learn about one another and stre ngthen our pride in our shared customs.

The Sikh community has played a central role in building this province and in bringing the core princi- ples of Sikhism to every aspect of our province. Those principles — equality, social justice, respect and toler- ance — a r e k e y t o B . C . ' s f u t u r e a n d o n e s w e m u s t a l l continue to strive for. I want to take this opportunity to thank B.C.'s Indo-Canadia n and Sikh community for their contributions to B.C. Recently we marked two most important dates in the history of B.C. in Canada.

On March 26 the com- munity remembered the day in 1907 when people of Indian origin were deprived of their right to vote, and last week on April 2 we remembered the community leaders and the organizations who worked so hard to regain the right to vote in 1947. Almost six decades later, here we are together cele- brating Vaisakhi with several members of the Indo- Canadian community here in t h i s H o u s e a s M L A s . I hope this Vaisakhi we all reflect on the achievements and contributions of B.C.'s Indo-Canadian community. Vaisakhi di lukh lukh vdhayee. BIG BROTHERS AND BIG SISTERS H.

Bloy: I'm delighted to rise in the House today to recognize the second annual Big Brothers and Big Sisters day at the Legislature. This is a special day when MLAs from both sides of the House will be meeting with Big Brothers and Big Sisters throughout the day, learning more about the organization's strategic focus of increasing the number of children in B.C. with a mentor, increasing its in-school teen mentorship program and developing new literacy and numeracy skills. For more than 80 years Big Brothers and Big Sisters have been providing support to children across the country.

There are over 23,000 children who benefit from the one-on-one mentor ship that is provided through this program. Through mentoring and support, the Big Brothers and Big Sisters help children receive the acceptance, understanding and respect they deserve as individuals. A mentor can be instrumental in helping a child find his or her way in the world while encouraging and challenging them to do their best. I like to call mentoring an investment for success, because by investing in the success of the younger gen- eration of British Columbians, everyone benefits.

A positive adult role model will directly contribute to increased academic achiev ement, better family and peer relationships, a substantially lower reliance on social services, and a more successful transition from school to work. Children who spend time with a mentor gain con- fidence, self-esteem and new skills, and develop their ability to relate to others. I ask my colleagues here today to join me in congratulating Big Brothers Big Sisters of Canada for all their success and contribution to our youth. RIDGE MEADOWS SENIORS SOCIETY HEALTH AND WELLNESS PROGRAM M.

Sather: Maple Ridge has an active seniors com- munity, and the hub of this activity is the Ridge Meadows Seniors Centre. Once a week in a room down a hall, you will find the Ridge Meadows Seniors Society health and wellness program. Greeted with a smile by one of the many volunteers, seniors come to have their blood pressure monitored, their height and weight recorded, get a massage or just sit and have a chat with friends both old and new. The health and wellness program was started in 2002 by Peggy Lambert, retired nurse and current director of the program.

Peggy says she started the program because she was angry that seniors health was falling through the cracks, and there was no focused, compre- hensive program for seniors in the community. Over the years the program has grown. Through word of mouth and referrals from local doctors, ap- proximately 550 seniors have frequented the program, with up to 83 seniors dropping by weekly to the Tues- day morning program. [1400] Not restricted to the seniors centre, clinics are also held at Willow Manor every third Wednesday and at the Pitt Meadows Seniors Centre twice a month.

With 14 volunteer nurses, peer counsellors and a massage therapist, the health and wellness program emphasizes prevention and early detection of potential health con- cerns as well as health awareness and support of seniors in maintaining their well-being. Community support includes free hearing-aid clean- ing, glasses repair and hearing tests by Crystal Optical, and pharmaceutical and diabetic education by profes- sionals from the local Safeway pharmacy to assist seniors with any medication or diet concerns. With cuts to seniors health care, preventative care becomes more crucial.

Please join me in thanking Peggy and the volunteers of the Ri dge Meadows Seniors Soci- ety health and wellness program for their dedication to the seniors of Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows. WILD AT ART FESTIVAL J. McIntyre: I rise to applaud the community of Squamish for putting on a terrific arts and entertain- ment event with the them e of motion. A successful

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11117 one-day local festival in 2004 has escalated to the ten-day annual Wild at Art Festival featuring original displays, with hopes to expa nd for the duration of the games in 2010. This year the Wild at Art Festival was moved to coincide with the Haywood Ski Nationals and the 81st annual Canadian Cross-Country Ski Championships. Taking place at the new Callaghan Valley Olympic Park, the event attracted almost 200 athletes from 16 countries around the world.

The Callaghan Valley Local Organizing Committee, headquartered in Squamish, was a co-sponsor of Wild at Art and took full advan- tage of the cross-opportunities to showcase the venue, the site of the Nordic Olympic events. On March 14, I attended the opening of the festival, and for the second year it again involved a spectacular art display at the West Co ast Railway Heritage Park, this time accompanied by musical acts. Wild at Art, supported by provincial and VANOC funding to par- ticipate in the 2008 Cultural Olympiad, successfully celebrates the richness and diversity of the local arts community.

On March 16, a crisp, sunny morning, I was at the opening ceremonies of the cross-country nationals starting with the team sprint events. This cross-country championship event received a signifi- cant grant from Hosting B.C. to assist in mounting a first-class international event. Both these events could not have happened without exceptional local support, without hundreds of volun- teers who put together an ar t festival and a sporting event that wowed the communi ty. I'd like to congratu- late Carolyn Grass, who assumed the role as festival coordinator in 2007.

She, along with her team of volunteers like Judy McQuinn and Sonj a Lebans, has brought re- freshing energy and passion to the festival. I'd also like to congratulate Denise Imbeau and her CALOC team for making B.C. proud and showing the country and the world that we have the know-how. For me, this is what the Olympic spirit is all about — bringing communities together in the pursuit of excellence in sport, arts and culture and innovation. WOMEN OF THE WORLD EVENT R. Chouhan: Last weekend Lougheed and Brent- wood malls in Burnaby were transformed into the United Nations of women events.

It was called the Women of the World event. Along with several other MLAs, MPs, mayors, city councillors, park commis- sioners, the Burnaby fire chief and the RCMP superin- tendent, I attended the opening ceremonies at the Lougheed Mall. The primary goal of the event was to provide information on employment readiness and opportunities to immigrant and low-income women through educational workshops and mentoring. Burnaby is a very divers e community. For example, at one of the community schools in my constituency, more than 85 different languages are spoken.

Burnaby Family Life, incorporated in 1971, is a non-profit soci- ety. It provides leadership and many important ser- vices to immigrant and low-income families. Eight women currently enrolled in Burnaby Family Life pro- grams were selected as protégés for mentorship. The mentorship program will provide these women inspi- ration and guidance as they develop their career paths.

I would like to congratulate Burnaby Family Life, Lougheed and Brentwood town centres, Burnaby Now newspaper, Burnaby Board of Trade and the province for sponsoring such a great event in Burnaby to help women of the world. [1405] GUILDFORD COMMUNITY PARTNERS SOCIETY D. Hayer: Communities are made up of people who live in them and on a volunteer basis work for them. One of the strongest communities in my con- stituency of Surrey-Tynehead is Guildford. It is that way because of the Guildford Community Partners Society.

Among the many volunteers who contribute hun- dreds of hours every year to make Guildford Partners very successful are the president Rob Terris, vice presi- dent Lenora Bradley, treasurer Diane Chiasson, secretary Diane Demarinis and directors Joan Basic, Jean Munday, Steve Boyd, Barry Baskin and seniors representative Seiny Van Vliet. Formed in 1994, Guildford Partners Society helps develop recreation facilities for young people and for seniors, and works with the RCMP on crime preven- tion school liaison programs and on drug awareness in schools.

Guildford Partners, along with the Guildford Lions Club, also raises funds for the Surrey Baseball Association and is advocating for an Olympic-sized swimming pool for our communities, supports inner- city schools and works on youth leadership programs. This entirely volunteer non-profit society also raises funds for the Guildford libra ry computer lab and com- puters, and works to resolve poverty and crime issues. It celebrates the culture and social fabric of Guildford and raises funds for all good causes, including $260,000 toward the Guildford recreation facility.

It has also been involved in all-candidate meetings, Guildford Night Alive program, a home-invasion forum and an earthquake awareness meeting. It works s u c c e s s f u l l y t o k e e p H o l l y s w i m m i n g p o o l o p e n a n d helps fund the Etcetera Kids after-school activity program, Etcetera youth leadership programs and after- school youth programs and activities. I would ask everybody in the House to join me in congratulating all the volunteers for everything they do to make our communities a better place. Oral Questions DEATHS OF CHILDREN IN MERRITT H.

Lali: I want to start off by thanking the Solicitor General for calling me last night. We discussed the situation in Merritt and exchanged briefings with each other. I also want to extend my thanks to the Minister

11118 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 of Education for passing me a note, offering her help in any way and the ministry's help in this situation. From time to time, both sides of the House are able to work in a spirit of cooperation and bipartisanship. I'm going to ask a couple of questions in that spirit of cooperation and bipartisanship on behalf of my constitu- ents, who have asked me to put forward their issues. M y c o m m u n i t y i s i n d i r e n e e d o f h e l p r i g h t n o w .

Indeed, the entire province is reeling from the deaths and the murders of three innocent children, and people across the province are struggling to come to terms with this heinous crime. I was in Merritt in the pa st few days. The community is grieving, and the people are afraid that the murderer is still at large.

I would like to respectfully ask the Attorney General: what supports and services are the Attorney General and the government providing and willing to provide to help the grieving mother, the children at Diamond Vale Elementary — I thank the Minister of Education for her note — and the families in th e neighbourhood and the entire community to help them get through this unfor- tunate tragedy? Hon. G. Campbell: I appreciate the member's ques- tions. I also appreciated the comments that the member made earlier, hon. Speaker.

I think at a time like this , with a tragedy like this that occurs, we have to recall that it touches all of us. All the people of the prov ince are saying: "How can this kind of thing take place?" There's no question it raises a number of significant questions, and our first concern, obviously, is for the mother. I can't imagine w h a t i t m u s t b e l i k e t o d i s c o v e r t h a t k i n d o f h o r r e n - dous scene. Our concerns also are for the police offi- cers. Again, I can't even begin to understand what it must be like to come upon a scene like that.

I'm sure the member will agree that every member of the detachment, every member of the community and indeed all of us are trying to struggle with how we cope with something so senseless. You can't compre- hend it. [1410] Our concern, like the member's, is for the family first, for the mother first and the supports we can provide to her and for the children in the schools. Clearly, this is an enormo us event in their lives. It may touch them forever. We have to offer all the support we can, and we will. To the members of the detachment, to the members of the public….

We're trying to ensure that all necessary resources are available not just as we search for the suspect but also to provide the su pport and succour to the community that they require. It is, I think, really important for all of us to under- stand that everyone has been touched by this — the RCMP, the judiciary, members of the community, fami- lies and people around the province.

So the govern- ment will make available all required resources, all necessary resources to provide support to ensure that we get through this, that we learn as much as we can from this and that we prov ide not just the RCMP but the public with the support they require. At the end of the day, I think all of us have to be patient enough to allow the work to be done that needs to be done. It's not a time for a rush to judgment.

It's a time to provide support, to provide understanding and to reach out to the community, to the family and to everyone who's involved to try and ensure that we can all get through this, that we all learn from this and that w e d o e v e r y t h i n g i n o u r p o w e r t o s t o p a n y t h i n g l i k e this from ever happening again. Three children, hon. Speaker — ten years old, eight years old and five years old. This weekend I'm sure they were laughing, they were smiling and their eyes were dancing with light. They were full of life, and then that was taken from th em. We all lose when that happens.

The government and all of its resources will be there to try and aid and as sist the community, and par- ticularly the family, in all ways we can. FERRY SAFETY G. Coons: I visited 30 ferry-dependent communities on the coast of B.C., and everywhere I heard major con- cerns about fares and operat ional safety. The Transpor- tation Safety Board report on the sinking of the Queen of the North and the Morfitt safety audit alluded to many safety management concerns.

The recent near collision in Active Pass with a contracted-out captain at the helm highlights Morfitt's concerns with on-time management performance bonuses compromising operational safety. On-time payouts are a key goal in performance measure for this government's quasi-privatized corporation. My question is to the Prem ier. Since the Minister of Transportation has washed his hands of the marine highway, what is the Premier doing to ensure that B.C. Ferries on-time bonuses do not compromise safety and put passengers and crew at risk? Hon.

M. de Jong: In the absence of the Transportation Minister, I'll take the question on notice. Mr. Speaker: Member for North Coast, is it a new question? G. Coons: I do have a new question, hon. Speaker. Morfitt's safety audit had 41 recommendations that would reassure public confidence in our ferry system. This government and this Premier have stated that B.C. Ferries has committed to implementing every single one of the Morfitt recommendations. The public needs more than a commitment from B.C. Ferries. They want a commitment from this go vernment, from this Pre- mier and from the minister responsible.

I'm asking the Premier: what is the Premier doing to ensure that every single one of the Morfitt recom- mendations is implemented? Hon. M. de Jong: Again, in the absence of the Transportation Minister, I'll take the question on notice.

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11119 FRANK PAUL PUBLIC INQUIRY M. Farnworth: In 2001 the then Solicitor General, the current Minister for Housing, wrote to the Police Complaint Commissioner and informed him that he would not be calling a coroner's inquest into the death of Frank Paul. He said: "I'm significantly concerned with the possibility of opening a coroner's inquest dur- ing which culpability, liability and issues of racial dis- crimination are likely to become central features of attempted cross-examination." My question is to the current Solicitor General.

Can he explain when it would ever be appropriate that a Solicitor General's political concerns should outweigh full disclosure, especially in a case like the Frank Paul one? Hon. J. van Dongen: There is a process in place right now to examine that issue, and I can't comment any further than to let that process work. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. [1415] M. Farnworth: In fact, I wasn't asking about the process. I was asking about how it was handled. Having said that, I have a second question, which I will ask the Attorney General.

In the last few weeks, as the public inquiry continues, both former Coroner Larry Campbell and former Police Complaint Commis- sioner Don Morrison have testified that there should have been an inquest. The fo rmer Solicitor General, the current Minister for Housing, has yet to explain why he rejected the call for an inquest. My question is to the Attorney General. Will he recommend that his cabinet colleague testify at the public inquiry? Hon. W. Oppal: You know, Frank Paul died in De- cember 1998.

Suffice to say that there were sufficient issues that remain outstanding that we asked for and commissioned a commission of inquiry. The govern- ment appointed the hon. Mr. Justice Davies to conduct the commission of inquiry. I think it would be totally inappropriate for me to direct the commissioner, while the commission of in- quiry is ongoing, to embark on a particular course of c o n d u c t . I n f a c t , i t w o u l d b e w r o n g f o r m e t o o r d e r what the hon. member is asking me to do. J.

Kwan: When the government finally called the inquiry into Frank Paul's death, they promised a full and open inquiry. But now this government is going to court in an attempt to prevent Crown prosecutors from testifying about the decision not to lay charges against the police. Justice Davies has ruled that hearing from the Crown prosecutors is critical to actually having a full and open inquiry. To the Attorney General: will he live up to his gov- ernment's commitment to openness and allow the Crown prosecutors to testify in this inquiry? Hon. W. Oppal: Again, I reiterate. We want all the answers.

We want to know what happened to Frank Paul in December 1998. That's why we commissioned this inquiry. The issue raised by the member regarding the evidence or the compellability of Crown counsel to testify at this inquiry is a legal issue. Certain legal ob- jections have been taken with respect to their compel- lability and their ability to testify, and that matter is now being heard, or will be heard, in the Supreme Court. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. J.

Kwan: Justice Davies is clear in suggesting that what we need to ensure a full and open inquiry into the death of Frank Paul is to ensure that the Crown prosecutors testify. The government has made the commitment that there would be a full and public in- quiry into this matter so that we can learn about that death and, more importantly, so that we can prevent it from ever happening again. Again to the Attorney General: will he make the commitment today to ensure that openness is in fact followed and to ensure that the Crown prosecutors do in fact testify in the inquiry into the death of Frank Paul? Hon. W.

Oppal: I can assure the member…. I can assure the House that we want an open inquiry. We want the answers. We want to know what happened to Frank Paul on that evening. The fact is that there is a very important legal issue, a very important constitu- tional issue, that needs to be decided before the Su- preme Court. That issue is a serious issue, and the issue is being advanced by members of the criminal justice branch independently of me. [1420] L.

Krog: My recollection is th at the motto over the law school at UBC is "Let justice be done, though the heavens fall." I'm wondering if the Attorney General, in his interest in pursuing a fine legal point, is prepared to acknowledge that…. If the prosecutors wish to give evi- dence voluntarily, will he support them in that decision? Hon. W. Oppal: I'm sure that member well under- stands the Crown Counsel Act, which was passed in 1991. That act grants independence to members of the criminal justice branch. They are exercising their inde- pendence independently of whatever I have to say. They have that right.

The Crown Counsel Act allows for and permits independence in the discretion of dis- charging their duties, and that's what is taking place. I think the wise course of action here is to wait for the results of the hearing that will be held in the Supreme Court. We all anxiously wait for the results of that hearing. FUNDING FOR FORESTRY PROGRAMS AT COLLEGE OF NEW CALEDONIA R. Fleming: Last month the Minister of Advanced Education told B.C.'s colleg e and university presidents

11120 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 that he wouldn't honour his ministry's three-year budget. Instead of the sche duled increase, they were given two weeks' notice to go and cut $60 million. Now the institutions are being forced, predictably, to look at layoffs, program cuts and deficits. So far the minister has dismissed every college and university president's warning about program elimina- tions.

Today in the media he downplayed it by saying: "I think they will do just fine." The College of New Caledonia in Prince George is now cancelling the forest technologist program and the aboriginal access forestry programs. To the minister: does he think eliminating forest technologist programs at the College of New Caledonia is just fine to him? Hon. M. Coell: The member knows that during the last seven years, the budget for advanced education has gone up by 40 percent. He also knows that we've spent $1.5 billion on infrastruc ture, added five new trade schools and added two new university campuses.

There's $68 million more going into advanced education this year than last year, and we're asking them to target it to areas that are of importance to British Columbians as a whole. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. R. Fleming: What everyone in the forest sector knows is that the future of th e industry requires B.C. to work smarter to build new market opportunities when the industry rebounds.

But here we have the minister responsible for training that future workforce cutting forest technologist programs that build capacity to bet- ter manage our forests — including programs for abo- riginal people, I note. This isn't just a temporary enrolment decision. Col- lege internal documents show that this decision is for- ever. All faculty and staff of this forestry program are receiving layoff notices, and unless the minister acts, it will be wound down.

So will the minister step in with the very modest amount of funding needed to ensure that training for professional foresters and technicians isn't wiped out in the central and northern region of British Columbia? Hon. M. Coell: The member knows that colleges have the ability to bring in courses as they see fit. He also knows that the budget for colleges and universities has gone up by $68 million this year. We continue to build post-secondary education in this province with new trade schools in every part of the province, new funding for trades, new funding for aboriginal seats and new funding for graduates.

We're targeting those funds to what British Columbia needs as a whole, while continuing to build a great system in British Columbia. [1425] FUTURE OF ELK FALLS SAWMILL C. Evans: I think in the last three years, 18 sawmills have closed in B.C. In a month Elk Falls in Campbell River, with 275 workers, I think, will become the 19th unless something happens to end their proposed layoff date. The Minister of Forests has stated on several oc- casions that he thinks the Elk Falls mill is inefficient and not economically viable.

My question is: are you still of the opinion that the Elk Falls mill is not economically viable, or would you support capital investment and an attempt to make that mill make money and keep those people on? Hon. R. Coleman: We've actually met with the Steelworkers who are trying to put together a business plan with regards to Elk Falls, and we are supporting that effort on their part. We hope we'll be able to assist them in seeing that that opportunity exists. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. C. Evans: Hon. Speaker, I don't think there are any Steelworkers at Elk Falls.

The minister has met with a group that isn't there. Okay, assuming that that's simply a slip of the tongue and that the minister meant to say the CEP, who I think is the union of record there, is the minister then saying that the government — the Crown, the Ministry of Forests — would like to come to the table and assist the consultant to CEP and potential investors and re- build and reopen Elk Falls and save Campbell River? Hon. R. Coleman: To the member: you're right. It was a slip of the tongue. I met with the union from Elk Falls, which is the CEP.

My ministry, I believe, has advised them that we're actu ally going to assist them with some financing dollars with regards to the business plan, and they are working together at this point in time. I haven't seen the results of that, but I do understand those conversations have taken place. B. Simpson: The minister was very explicit when we had early debates about Elk Falls — that Elk Falls was an antiquated mill and that there was no way it could run. That really was TimberWest's argument about that mill. What in reality was happening was that TimberWest was starving the mill of the logs that it needed to run.

TimberWest still has public forest licences, yet they've told their shareholders that they are log export- ers and land developers. Will the minister commit to- day to put those public forest licences back on the table so that those 275 workers can get back to work with a guaranteed supply of wood to that mill? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. R. Coleman: We've canvassed the rules and statutory responsibilities around transfers of licences in this House before, and we will deal with this issue as it comes before us. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11121 B. Simpson: Those rules that the minister is talking about as canvassing are the rules that this government put in place in 2003, which gutted the Forest Act, which took the relationship away from communities, which took the relationship away from mills, and which caused Elk Falls and many other mills in this province to go down. That's what this minister is talk- ing about canvassing, and we have agreed to disagree on that. I was just in Kamloops yesterday — same situation. Mill permanently closed and the forest licences sold. Again to the minister.

Th e issue for those folks who are working so hard to get Elk Falls up and running again — they have a business case; they have the proof that the mill can run — is that they need a guaranteed fibre supply. Will the minister commit today to make sure that mill gets the logs it needs to put those 275 people back to work again? [1430] Hon. R. Coleman: We haven't seen the business case, hon. Member. Maybe you've read something that I haven't, but when we see the business case, we'll deal with the issue. PENALTY PROVISIONS FOR MINING INDUSTRY N.

Macdonald: I ask again about the recommenda- tions from the Sullivan mine inquest. Teck Cominco built a structure that four people died in. Teck Cominco broke two regulations. One required workers to regis- ter when they entered and le ft the property. As well, they broke the rule that re quired people working alone to call in every two hours. Because of that, somebody died and was left dead on Teck Cominco property for two days. Now, the coroner's jury heard that and said that that cannot happen again. They said there had to be regulations in place; there had to be penalties as well. Recommendation 12 is clear.

When will the minister put in place meaningful penalty provisions for compa- nies that break mining regulations? Hon. K. Krueger: The chief inspector of mines at- tended the site of this tragedy immediately after the event. The chief inspector of mines said that, in his opinion, the infractions did no t lead to the tragedy. No penalties were assessed by the chief inspector of mines, and ministers do not interfere with the recommenda- tions and decisions of the statutory officer. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. N. Macdonald: There was an inquest, the coroner's inquest, which lasted a we ek.

The jury heard the in- formation and made a decisi on, and they were clear. Recommendation 12 is clear. Penalty provisions for companies that break regulati ons must be increased in meaningful ways. That is the conclusion of a jury that heard information for a week. You cannot pick and choose who you're going to listen to. That is the recommendation that they put in place. I know that companies like Teck Cominco do not want that, and I know that Teck Cominco is the major donor to the B.C. Liberals, but there is a clear choice that this government needs to make. It could not be clearer.

Does the minister serve the corporate interests of the major donor to the B.C. Liberals, or is he going to do the right thing? The right thing is clear. Wi thout this piece, the minis- ter has failed the families of the Sullivan mine accident. They have failed Kimberley, and we will not accept that. We need the penalty provisions. When are they going to come? Hon. K.

Krueger: Following two full investigations b y t h e M i n i s t r y o f E n e r g y , M i n e s a n d P e t r o l e u m Resources that were managed and coordinated by the chief inspector of mines, with absolutely no political interference and following the coroner's inquest and its recommendations, the chief inspector of mines, fulfilling his mandate, convened a code review committee. The code review committee consisted of three representatives from unions and three representatives from management, as it's properly constituted, with the chief inspector of mines chairing.

The code review committ ee came back with recom- mendations, which did not include any changes to penal- ties, and all of the recommendations of the code review committee were enacted by an order-in-council which I gave to the member the same day. It would be inappro- priate for us to interfere and add recommendations to the code review committee's recommendations. SAFETY INSPECTIONS OF MINES C. Puchmayr: The code review has nothing to do with the matter that's before us right now.

We're talk- ing about a recommendation from a coroner's jury, the last of the judicial inquiry into the deaths of those min- ers and those paramedics. The code review has nothing to do with it whatsoever. What has everything to do with it is the fact that there was not one penalty, not one nickel of a fine lev- ied against Teck Cominco, when four people died on the site. When will the ministry look at taking away the responsibility of mines inspections and putting it with WorkSafe B.C.? [1435] Hon. K. Krueger: This question has been raised repeatedly by Mr. Jim Sinclair of the B.C.

Federation of Labour and by some of the members opposite. For over a hundred years the Ministry o f E n e r g y , M i n e s , a n d Petroleum Resources, by its various names, has been responsible for the health and safety of miners and mines themselves. The mining industry in British Columbia has one of the very best safety records in the province of any heavy industry. That is because of a collaboration that goes on every day between the workers, their unions,

11122 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 mine managers, the companies and the government. When an accident happens, inspectors get there imme- diately. Inspectors do ra ndom checks on the mines constantly. They act on any infractions they find. They have the power to shut down the entire site, which is a tremendous penalty. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. C. Puchmayr: Almost all provinces in Canada have taken the inspections of the mines over to WorkSafe or to their workers compensation boards.

After the Westray disaster the mines minister even went on record saying that there is no way that a ministry that is p r o m o t i n g m i n i n g s h o u l d a l s o b e e n f o r c e d w i t h t h e safety of mining. Again to the minister: will the minister encourage this government to divest the inspections of mines and t u r n i t o v e r t o W o r k S a f e B . C . s o t h a t i t h a s a c l e a r e r sense of independence? Hon. K. Krueger: T h i s i s a g o v e r n m e n t t h a t b e - lieves…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. K.

Krueger: T h i s i s a g o v e r n m e n t t h a t b e - lieves in measuring by result, and it is impossible for anyone to demonstrate that the mining industry, its workers, the community an d the environment, which are the first consideration in every mining permit proc- ess, the very first thing that government thinks about and the last thing…. A mining permit is only issued when a mine application is spelled out from the very earliest stages right through construction, operation and reclamation of the site, wi th the safety of workers, communities and the environment first and foremost.

When you compare the results that the collabora- tion that I just spoke of delivers day in and day out, every day of every year, no one can demonstrate that people in communities and workers would be safer under the alternate arrangement that is proposed. [End of question period.] B. Simpson: I seek leave to make an introduction. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Introductions by Members B. Simpson: I have the pleasure of introducing my nemesis in the House, or at least one of them. In the last election, the Green candidate Doug Gook is here.

Doug and I go way back and have fought a number of battles over the years about what constitutes sustainability and sustainable communities. Doug, welcome. I ask the House to welcome Doug Gook to the Legislature. Petitions J. Horgan: I'd like to table a petition signed by over 400 residents of Sooke, in my community of Malahat– Juan de Fuca, calling on the government to reinstate protections for manufactured home park residents in the Residential Tenancy Act. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: In this chamber, I call continued second reading debate on Bill 16, and in

Section A, Committee of Supply, for the information of members, continued debate on the Ministry of Agriculture and Lands. [1440] Second Reading of Bills GREENHOUSE GAS REDUCTION (RENEWABLE AND LOW CARBON FUEL REQUIREMENTS) ACT (continued) N. Macdonald: I rise to speak on second reading for Bill 16, the greenhouse gas reduction act, which is, of course, enabling legislation. For those that are just join- ing into this debate, it pr ovides the legal framework which will allow a series of things to be put into place. [K.

Whittred in the chair.] The focus of my comments will deal around, basi- cally, the issue of secrecy. That will be the focus of my comments. I'm also going to speak somewhat about the larger issue, which is about the effectiveness of this sort of a strategy in dealing with greenhouse gases. Enabling legislation is, in my experience, not un- usual. It is something that is used, but there are ele- ments of this that cause problems for me.

Essentially, these allow the vast majority of what is going to unfold to unfold through regulation, which means that essen- tially you're going to have the Premier and cabinet making a number of very, very important decisions that will not be made with the scrutiny and the tools that we have available when they are made here in the Legislature. There is an elem ent of "trust me" with this legislation that I simply am not comfortable with.

What we have seen with the greenhouse gas initia- tive to date is a tremendous amount of secrecy, and what I would say is that there is an unnecessary amount of secrecy in pushing this forward. I would even go as far as to say that the secrecy is, in fact, destructive. What is going to be needed if we are going to make meaningful changes is that we are going to have to engage the population as a whole. They are going to have to be making decisions that they fully understand and that they decide is so mething that they want to support. Without that you really are not going to have the success that you need.

You are not going to get the commitment and the buy-in from people if they do not

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11123 fully understand what is going on, if they do not fully understand the implications of some of the choices that the government is going to ask them to make. To date we have a secretariat that has a tremendous amount of government and public resources put to- wards it, and that may be a reasonable thing to do. Obviously, to work through what we are going to put forward, we need to put resources towards plans that are going to be sensible. But in my mind what is not sensible is the secrecy that surrounds it.

This group meets in secrecy, what they discuss is in secret, an d most troubling, who actu- ally comes in and talks to this group is also secret. So you take a process that the public is invited to partici- pate in and that the public is going to pay for, and you leave them out of the decisi on-making process. You do not give them the informatio n that the secretariat is considering as they come up with these plans.

We don't even know who is providing the information, and that is the key. [1445] Now, with the B.C. energy plan, what I would assert — and this is the wider B.C. energy plan that has been put forward over the past number of years — is that you had all of the right language being used around sustainability, around green power, all of that language being used, and yet the reality of the B.C. energy plan as it emerges shows that the primary focus of the government has been putting in place a framework that benefits certain businesses, and that that is the primary beneficiary of the B.C. energy plan.

It is not the public, as you would expect, that is going to benefit from it. With this enabling legislation, the difficulty with it is that it sets up a framework for making decisions on biofuels. But a number of key decisions that will be made by the Premier and by cabinet will be made in secret. How they make those decisions, what sort of decisions they made, who speaks to them, whose inter- ests are the decisions being made in — all of that will be beyond the public purview. We will not know, really, an awful lot of what we need to know.

Even the Privacy Commissioner, the gentleman responsible for freedom of information, Mr. Loukidelis, has very specifically written…. He doesn't write on a tremendous number of bills the government puts forward, but on this one he specifically writes that he has concerns. Granted, it is around a specific provision,

section 22. My concern is far broader than that. But even he is spe- cifically concerned about

section 22 and asks that the government consider what it is doing there and think abou t chang ing it and m ak ing it m ore open so that the public is actually able to see what is going on with the legislation that will flow from this enabling act. I am deeply concerned about the lack of public in- put that is going to flow from this bill. What I would suggest is that it follows a pattern that we've seen here in this Legislature — in fact, not only in the first term of this government but in this second term. We were here in the fall talking about TransLink.

What we see now is that you have TransLink meeting in secret and making decisions in secret — all of this with huge implications for the public. But the public not being able to fully understand what is going on, not able to fully judge whether the public good is being served or some private good is…. That's never a good thing. We have VANOC meeting in secret. We have the consistent mishandling of freedom-of-information leg- islation — really, the abuse of that tool for opposition. We have changes to the Public Inquiry Act, a consistent pattern of moving things into secret.

What I would say is that when you do that, you are fundamentally weakening the public's ability and the opposition's ability to question government policy and to see if they are doing things for the good of the province. We have set up this system, and the system has emerged over several hundred years for a very particu- lar purpose. It is based on the premise that with a sys- tem where assertions by government are challenged in a very formalized way, you will find the truth on how money is spent, and you wi ll get to the truth about whether a policy is good and defendable or whether it's weak and sloppy.

What we have seen is that when we weaken those tools, when we weaken the tools of opposition, we have poor decisions being ma de. I'll choose just one to talk about, and I'll talk about it just for a minute. The Vancouver Convention Centre expansion pro- ject. It was shrouded in secrecy, and what we saw is government trying to hide the facts about what was go- ing on consistently for a long period of time. It allowed a sloppiness of decision-making that will cost the taxpay- ers of British Columbia hundreds of millions of dollars.

There is no question that there was a sloppiness and mismanagement that is far more likely to happen in se- cret where the scrutiny of the media, the scrutiny of the public and the scrutiny of the opposition are absent. [1450] What all governments need to think about is that this institution will continue long after they're gone, and they need, as one of their legacies, to have strengthened it.

So the difficulty then is that if you allow things to move away from a public forum and allow decisions such as this legislation would allow — key decisions — to be made in private, in the secr ecy of cabinet, without the scrutiny that this Legislature affords, there is the prob- ability, I would suggest, of legislation, of changes of direction that are not properly scrutinized. That is a weakness with this legislation. There is also the issue of the direction that this legislation takes us on biofuels. What other members have spoken about — I think very eloquently — is the concern around biofuels.

I thin k that it is clear, from experience in other jurisdictions, that the conclusions on biofuels…. The effectiveness of this strategy in dealing with greenhouse gases is in no way agreed to. In fact, there are many prominent people in the world, prominent scientists working on greenhouse gases, that question the effectiveness of this direction. The implications for this initiative need to give us reason to pause. We really need to think about whether

11124 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 we would go in this direction — which is why I thought it was such an effective suggestion that was put forward by the critic for Energy where he sug- gested that we pause and go and speak to people and fu lly u nderstand what we are entering into before we enter into it. As I said, there are many jurisdictions that have experimented with biofuels. They have found that the unintended consequences are significantly problematic, and we need to think those through.

With all of the t h i n g s t h a t w e d o w i t h g r e e n h o u s e g a s e s , w e n e e d t o be very careful, first, that we are doing them with sin- cerity, that we are not saying that we're doing one thing and doing another. What I would argue is th at, with the B.C. energy plan, that's exactly what's happening. The government is putting forward the idea that they are dealing with environmental issues, when really they're putting in place a structure that will benefit corporate friends.

We need to make sure that is not what we're going to be doing, because if we're going to deal successfully with greenhouse gases, the first steps this province takes cannot breed cynicism in the population. We h a v e t o m a k e s u r e t h a t i t i s d o n e s i n c e r e l y , t h a t i t i s done properly and that all of the steps that we take are measured. Not only do I have concerns about the fact that this enabling legislation will put decision-making into a secret place — a place that I'm uncomfortable to put it, because I do not have faith that the right decisions will be made in that place….

Secondly, it needs to be based upon solid ideas that are actually going to work to fix the problem that we w a n t t o s e e f i x e d . I f w e ' r e g o i n g t o b e m o v i n g w i t h efforts that will come at a cost to the public, we need to make sure that we are doing things that we know are going to be beneficial. If it is in a direction where many, many other jurisdictions are saying, "We've tried it. There are problems. You better sort this out before you g o f o r w a r d , " t h e n t h a t s h o u l d g i v e u s p a u s e t o s t o p .

That's the second reason why I really think that the initiative needs to be reconsidered and that there are problems with Bill 16 in that way too. [1455] My main concern, though , is with the secrecy and with the concentration of power, again, with the Premier and cabinet — the stripping away of a very necessary and important public process where people are able to actually look at the legislation, the rules, the regula- tions that are going to be the meat of what we actually do with this issue. We have to get them into the public purview, and they should be back in this Legislature and properly debated.

In my mind, there's no reason why that should not happen. In fact, I feel strongly that it's absolutely essen- tial that it will. But this bill will, in essence, remove that opportunity for the public to see. So it's secrecy that I have my main problem with. I know that other members will speak in greater depth on the particular issu e around biofuel, but with that, I'll take my seat. Madam Speaker, as always, I thank you for the opportunity to speak on the issue. Deputy Speaker: Member for Cariboo North. [Ap- plause.] B. Simpson: Now, hold your applause. You should find out what I'm going to say first.

Interjections. B. Simpson: Hold it until the end. I want to start with some context for this bill, be- cause I think that often as we get stuck here in Victoria in the legislative session, as we get stuck in the legisla- tive precincts, it doesn't give us an opportunity, be- cause of the hectic pace that we have, to stand back and reflect on what we're really supposed to be doing here. Then I'll get into the substance of the bill. I want to make it clear that I cannot support the bill as it stands.

I would love to support a bill that brings forward biofuels, second-generation biofuels from sus- tainable sources, that drives the biofuels industry in Brit- ish Columbia. I would love to do that. That's not this bill. We live on a planet that's been around for a little while — even longer than some of the members on that side who've been serving here for a long time and even longer than the Clerk of the House, Mr. MacMinn, who has been involved in parliamentary democracy for a long time. But as human beings, we've only been on it for a very short time, on a relative scale.

I think it's time that we admit in places lik e this that the human en- deavour, human civilization, is putting at risk the planet's ability to continue to sustain our way of life. More and more evidence each and every day comes forward saying that we are threatening our very exis- tence on this planet, and we're certainly undermining the ability and the possibilities of future generations. That is a very serious charge to this Legislative Assem- bly and to all legislative assemblies and democracies around the world to take that very, very seriously whenever we're in public policy debate.

For a reference to that, there's a very interesting report that I would suggest all members of this assembly should read. It's from the United Nations Millennium Ecosystem Assessment. It's entitled Living Beyond our Means. In the

summary section, which is entitled "Run- ning Down the Account," the sub-bullet, the bottom line…. I would like to read into the public record: "At the heart of this assessment is a stark warning. Human activity is putting such strain on the natural functions of Earth that the ability of the planet's ecosys- tems to sustain future generations can no longer be taken for granted. The provision of food, fresh water, energy and materials to a growing population has come at con- siderable cost to the complex systems of plants, animals and biological processes that make the planet habitable.

"As human demands increase in coming decades, these systems will face even greater pressures and the risk of further weakening the natural infrastructure on which all societies depend. Protecting and improving our future well-being requires wiser and less destructive use

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11125 of natural assets. This in turn involves major changes in the way we make and implement decisions." A stark warning to us. It goes on to say: "This assessment shows that healthy ecosystems are central to the aspirations of humankind." I've had the opportunity, over the last few months in particular, to speak with young people all over this province, and one of the things I've challenged them to d o i s c o m e u p w i t h a d i f f e r e n t d e f i n i t i o n o f " s u s t a i n - ability" for us.

The idea of sustainability as a three-legged stool of equal balance between ecology, economy and social systems has outlived its purpose. It's outlived its useful- ness. It was useful for us to start putting environment on the table and to start balancing economic decisions with social and environmental decisions. But that day is long gone. [1500] What we need is an understanding of sustainability that first and foremost puts ecosystem integrity and resilience at its core. That has to be the first criterion for any decisions we make about anything in this House.

Will it garner us a better opportunity to have a sustain- able planet that can sustain human life and a whole host of other life for many generations to come? As I look at this bill, I look at it through that lens. I have to say — and I will explain why — that no, this bill does not meet that test. We can debate all aspects of climate change, and I'll speak about that. But I don't think this bill is debatable. The second filter is that if we are going to engage in truly addressing climate change, we have to engage in it together. It is going to cause us all to change the way we live.

It is going to demand of all of us personal sacrifice and changes in the way that our daily lives unfold, the way we get to work, the kind of work we do, the kinds of schools we build, the kind s of institutions, the eco- nomic structures that we ha ve. In order to do that change, we have to embrace the fundamental concept of democracy — the right to know — and the second fun- damental concept of democracy — the right to debate. T h i s b i l l , a s t h i s g o v e r n m e n t h a s b e e n w a r n e d b y the Privacy Commissioner, fails on the right to know.

As we've seen with the climat e change secretariat, this government and this Premier fail on the right to public debate. That we have a climate change secretariat that is beyond the pale of FOI is, I think, a tragedy, and it undermines our democratic processes. One could argue back that this is only enabling legislation. What's the big deal? It's because we don't know what this government is going to be enabled to do with this legislation.

Enabling legislation simply means the government is giving itself the right to de- termine through regulations, which are done behind closed doors and see the light of day when they're fi- nally printed…. It's going to allow them to do all of the hard work of determining targets, determining penalties, putting in place all the things that will determine this biofuel strategy in offices, in the bureaucracy with cabinet and with various politicians involved. That's wrong. We need to see the details. We need to see in this bill some of the substance of this biofuel strategy.

We have an obligation to present and future genera- tions. We have the huge challenge of climate change. We have to build societies. We have to build economic and social systems that are resilient with resilient ecosystems. We can debate in this House carbon tax and how you do that. We can debate cap-and-trade, which we will in Bill 18, and how you do that. We can debate how you drive change. But quite frankly, there is no debate on this bill, because this bill is behind its time. This is not an ahead- of-the-time bill. This is a behind-the-times bill.

Right now there is a massiv e debate in the U.K. and in the EU. What is the nature of the debate? Is it about: should we put targets on or not? No. It's: how fast should we get away from the targets that were already put on? How can we rescind those targets and get out of the biofuels business? I'd like to read again into the record some substance to this. This is the Environment Commissioner for the Euro- pean Union in an interview with the BBC.

He says that the environmental and social problems caused by biofuels are "bigger than we thought they were," and said that the EU has to "move very carefully." His comments follow a me- dia interview by the development commissioner. It goes on. He agrees for the first time that there should be a moratorium on new targets while they debate whether or not to rescind the targets that they have. We have Bob Watson. Now, who's Bob Watson? Apparently, Al Gore has called him the hero of the planet.

He is the chief scientific adviser to Britain's De- partment of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, and he was previously the World Bank's chief scientist. What does he say? He says that biofuel in reality is a policy that's led to an increase in greenhouse gases rather than a decrease and that it is an insane policy. [1505] He goes on: "He urged the British government to hold off on compulsory quotas on biofuel content in transportation fuels before the environmental impact of such a move is better understood.

His views are similar to those of Sir David King, until recently the British government's chief scientific adviser. He, too, said the biofuel quotas should be put on hold." Madam Speaker, that's all we're saying. We're not saying no to biofuels. We're not saying no to going down this path and looking for alternative fuel sources. We're just saying the way the economy of biofuels is structured just now, other jurisdictions have already been the pathfinders, and th ey're now pulling back off that path. Why are we going to go on it?

If that's not enough, the U.S. targets are being chal- lenged by the Nature Cons ervancy and the University of Minnesota. They asked the research question as to whether or not the land conversion that's needed for biofuels is sustainable. "Is it worth it?" is the question, and the categoric answer…. Bu t they say it's a surpris- ing answer, because the answer is no. So other jurisdictions that have targets are pulling back, and what are we doing? We're going down a

11126 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 path that others are retreating from. It doesn't make sense. There's a book I'm reading just now called Peak Everything. In Peak Everything the author says there's not a lot of wisdom in the world anymore. He says there's lots of conventional wisdom — and conven- tional wisdom is where everybody agrees that what we're doing today is okay — but there's not a lot of true wisdom. What we need right now is true wisdom. True wisdom would indicate that we back off. There's a UN report that gives lots of policy advice.

I suggest the minister read it if he hasn't had his staff read it already. They said: "Before we continue on this path of biofuels, here's what we need: internationally agreed standards and other certification models for the produc- tion, conversion, use and trade of bioenergy systems to protect both society and the environment; that we need to develop sustainability criteria and analytical tools for these biofuels." Don't have them. Shouldn't go there. The U.K. House of Commons — again, full report, happy to give it to the minister and his staff. The U.K.

House of Commons was asked to look at the European Union's targets and give the House of Commons ad- vice. What was the advice? Th ey said that the EU was reckless in going into thes e fuels and that the U.K. should not go down that path.

Here's from their report: "Biofuels can reduce greenhouse gas emissions from road transport, but most firs t generation biofuels have a detrimental impact on th e environment overall, and they're not an effective use of bioenergy resources." They say that they want a moratorium on current targets until technology improves, robust mechanisms to prevent damaging land use are developed and in- ternational sustainability standards are agreed. Now, here's a kicker.

"It will take considerable courage for the government and the EU to admit that the current policy arrangements for biofuels are inap- propriate." Inappropriate, Madam Speaker. "The policy realignments that are all required will be a test of the government's commitment to moving the U.K. towards a sustainable low carbon economy." For a Premier that wants, apparently, as his legacy to leave this province in a better place, to put us on the path of sustainability, to address climate change….

Surely we can learn the lesson of jurisdictions that have been on the path before us — not take this reckless course of action, not do this and have the courage to withdraw this bill, which is what we asked be done. Then, of course, that left-wing think tank the Royal Society of London, established in 1660 to promote ex- cellence in science, have their own report. Again, happy to share it with the minister if he hasn't read it. What does it say? Don't do it. Don't do it. "Biofuels in their current form undermine biodiversity, threaten food security, increase greenhouse gases in their full life cycle.

More importantl y, they are exacerbating poverty around the world and the disparity that exists between ourselves and developing countries." [1510] The toxicity of these pr oduction methodologies are such that we may be sterilizing the Gulf of Mexico and wiping out its entire biolog ical life. We are mowing down the Amazon in order to stay in this game. It is wrong. I'll give you again…. Interjection. B. Simpson: I'm happy to share all of this with the minister. I'll give him all of the documentation.

It's because — if the minister is not informed — the minute you're not producing crops for food and you're producing crops for fuel, you pour on the fertilizer like mad. You pour on the pesticides like mad. There are no standards that apply to food crops for the use of fertil- izers and pesticides. It's an education in science. But where does all that stuff go? A very tiny percentage of it goes into the crops. The rest of it goes into the water table.

Where most of this crop is being grown in Mexico and the United States, it's flooding down into the Gulf of Mex- ico and toxic-loading that in such a rapid way that yes, we are sterilizing it. Again, happy to give that informa- tion to the minister. The World Wildlife Federation came out with a report last week. Again, I hope the minister has taken a look at this, because it says that what we really need to do is move away from biof uels, because what biofuels do is continue our dependency on the internal combus- tion engine. They continue our dependency on other petrochemicals.

He says they're no different, really, than other fuels in our dependence on the single-occupancy vehicles and, in the report, makes a very good case for moving to electric vehicles and other forms of transport. Why is that important? Because the report from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Develop- ment also looks at the economics of biofuels. First and foremost, they say — and they agree with everybody else: "Regulations mandating usage or blending per- centages and fuel tax preferences to stimulate produc- t i o n o f b i o f u e l s a r e u s e d b y m a n y c o u n t r i e s .

I n m o s t cases these policy measures do not distinguish among biofuels according to their feedstocks or production methods, despite wide differences in environmental costs and benefits." That's precisely the poin t. We don't distinguish. And because this bill is enabling legislation, we have no guarantee, on behalf of the public of British Colum- bia, that this government has in mind biofuels from sustainable resources. Therefore, we can't support it. Let's see how the government is going to support that.

The OECD goes on to say that it's of particular im- portance to government to recognize that this is market interference. Now, for a government that was pooh- poohing that in question period…. "Oh, we don't inter- fere in the marketplace." We ll, what are targets? It's market interference. What is a subsidy? Market interfer- ence. What are tax incentives? Market interference. I'm sure they must be swallowing hard that they're going down this path and in terfering with the market- place, but the critical point here is that this tool of

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11127 market interference, which good governments do use to the benefit of society, doesn't discriminate between tax incentives for sustainable biofuels and non- sustainable sources. It doesn't distinguish between tar- gets for sustainable biofuels and unsustainable sources, and it doesn't distinguish between subsidies for sus- tainable versus unsustainable sources. In fact, this government references the federal gov- ernment and its targets and wh at it's doing.

Right now the federal government subsidies apply to ethanol from wheat — not from waste, not from waste wood, but from wheat. This government has a plan in the Peace along those lines. Are there sustainable sources? Yes. Does British Columbia have the opportunity to grow those? Yes. Not through this bill. This bill doesn't do it. This bill doesn't discriminate. So we're using market interfer- ence, and what will happen…. There's a study again that the minister…. It may have come across his desk be cause I think it's from his ministry — on the biodiesel possibilities in British Columbia.

It shows that if we took every piece of waste available — agricultural waste, organic matter waste and other wastes — a n d t u r n e d i t i n t o b i o - diesel, the most we would ma ke, if we did all of that, was 3.5 percent of our net demand in British Colum- bia — the most. [1515] Our target, apparently, in British Columbia is going to be 5 percent. So even in a best-case scenario for biodiesel, we're going to be sourcing 1½ percent from other sources.

Without international standards, without sustainability criteria, we will not know where those sources are coming from, and we will be contributing to the continued demise of the planet's ecosystems. Not on. Not going to happen. We have a special obligation to make sure our planet is resilient and adaptable and capable of sustaining future generations of British Columbians.

We have a special obligation to make sure that British Columbians are engaged in the debate ar ound these issues and that it's fully disclosed — what these additives are going to be, what they're sourced from and what the impact on the environment is. We have a special obligation because this is market interference. The government is going to be a driver of the biofuels marketplace. We have a special obligation to make sure that's from sustainable sources and meets sustainable principles. The NDP, through our party, has come up with a very substantive set of principles for sustainability.

They've called it Sustainable B.C. As we get into the debate about other things here — cap-and-trade, carbon pricing and all that stuff — we should actually have a set of criteria that we use to make a determination as to whether we're in or out. I'd like to put this on the record, b e c a u s e i t ' s v e r y g o o d w o r k d o n e b y v e r y d e d i c a t e d people over a long period of time. Here are the principles. First off, anything we do must protect ecosystems. It must protect the life support systems of the planet. Does this do that? The science indicates: not on your life.

It is undermining the life systems of the planet. It should lead to resource conservation. Does it do that? No. In fact, many biofuels use more resources in their full life cycle than si mply going and getting the fossil fuels out of the ground. Does it protect biodiversity? The answer to this is a clear and unequivocal no. In fact, it's one of the major threats of biofuels. As we mow the Amazon down, as we convert peat, as we convert deserts, as we convert all kinds of other special ecosystems over to fuel crops, we are undermining the biodiversity of the planet. Does it promote resilience? No, it does not.

Does it promote protection for the commons and for the general public? The co mmons are our public re- sources like water, air, fish and wildlife, heritage of parks and protected areas. No. It's polluting water, it's polluting our air, and the production of these fuels is undermining the fish and wildlife throughout the world. Does it promote food security? Again, the clear answer to that is: definitely not. Food security is now becoming a major issue. Talk to the ranchers in the Cariboo.

They'll tell you that one of the biggest insults to their bottom line that they have had over the last two years is ethanol subsidies, and they can't absorb it. We've seen wheat and rice prices go up. We're seeing prices for basic foodstuffs go up. That's not food secu- rity. As we convert more and more land base to fuel, that will be exacerbated. Does it promote social equity? No. We are exacer- bating poverty through this. We are making more and more people live on the margins because they can't afford basic food as a result of this biofuels policy around the world. Does it involve full-cost economics? No.

You won't go into biofuels if you do full-cycle pricing and costing. That's what the European Union found out, that's what the United States is finding out, and that's what the U.K. has found out. Full-cycle costing — you don't do it. Precautionary principle. Now, the precautionary principle is a good one for us to consider. What the precautionary principle says is that if the science is unclear — not in this case, where it's clear — and the jury is still out, err on the side of caution. Back off. Wait. See or engage in more science and more research.

It doesn't adhere to that. [1520] Does it adhere to adaptive management, where we're continually learning from the best available prac- tices and technologies? Again, definitely not. There are people on this path who are backing off of it, and we're going on it. The analogy is that everybody is running off of the path that we're just stepping onto, and we think that somehow maybe there's a nice rainbow at the end of that path. It isn't there. Does it promote democracy and due process?

As the Privacy Commissioner has raised, due process un- der FOI — getting meaningful information out to the public — is not protected in this. In fact, it's worsened in this bill. The democratic process, as we've already pointed out and the member for Columbia River–

11128 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 Revelstoke has already pointed out, is being under- mined not only by this but by the climate change secre- tariat. Finally, does it contribute to a just transition to what- ever a sustainable world looks like? Does it bring every- body along equally? Does it prevent picking winners and losers? The answer on this one is a categorical no as well. It's not as if this is debatable science anymore. It's not as if this is now some sort of contest out there.

It's simply that this government is too late out of the gate on this bill, and we should learn from those who have gone ahead of us. I'd like to finish up with a couple of quotes from the environmental community, be cause the environmental community in British Columbia and in Canada is slowly waking up to the biofuels boondoggle. And again, boondoggle in this case is not a word that I've used. It's a word used by one of the other authors here. Some are calling it a juggernaut that's out of control. On January 14, 2008, Friends of the Earth, in re- sponse to the Royal Society's report, make the following comments.

They first say: "The report warns that bio- fuels risked failing to deliver significant reductions in greenhouse gas emissions from transport and could even be more environmentally damaging, unless the government puts the right policies in place." Then they go on to say: "When the U.K.'s targets come into place, the U.K.'s use of biofuels is likely to accelerate climate change" — for a Premier who wants as a legacy addressing climat e change, that should be a stark warning — "and lead to social and environmental devastation around the world.

Consumers will have no way of distinguishing betw een good and bad biofuels, and biofuel companies will not be held to account for the negative impacts of their products. The govern- ment must put the obligation on hold" — that's all we're asking for here; the same as they're asking for there —"until it can guarantee that only biofuels that lead to significant greenhouse gas savings without caus- ing social and envi ronmental destruction will count to- wards it." That was January 2008. Then on April 2, 2008, a group of environmentalist NGOs got together.

They wrote a letter to the EU, the ambassador of the European Union, and they said: "Given the overwhelming sci entific evidence emerging in recent months, which highlight the risk posed by biofuels, it is inconceivable that the decisions on sus- tainability should be rushed." We're not saying no to bi ofuels. We're not saying no to finding some kind of transition to help us get off our dependency on oil. But there are better ways to use market interference on the part of the government — better ways to use tax incentives, to use subsidies and to use targets — than biofuels.

We should learn the lesson the rest of the world is learning just now and a less on that was hard-learned, because the planet's ecosystems have been undermined because of our headlong rush into biofuels in the first generation. So I ask the minister responsible, I ask the Premier, to withdraw this bill, to go back to the drawing board, to come back with something that give us the guaran- tees that biofuels will be from sustainable sources.

I also ask them to use th e targets and incentives and the market interference that they want to engage in this for better urban transport and for better alternatives to the internal combustion engine. That's a better use of the government's limited resources until this biofuels issue gets straightened out and until we grow the second- generation biofuels industry that can be sustainable and can help us through the transition. [1525] B. Ralston: I rise to join the debate on Bill 16.

Bill 16, as my colleague from Cariboo North has pointed out, is enabling legislation, so it's difficult to make a lot of judgments about the bill because most of what one would expect in the bill — the guts of the bill — will be promulgated by regulation. Th e cabinet, in the privacy and secrecy of the cabinet room, will develop regula- tions which will then be announced publicly. So it's not the same kind of public legislative process that this par- ticular process is, and it poses some obvious concerns. I do have some comments on the bill.

I want to be- gin with the rather extraordinary development of the Information and Privacy Co mmissioner addressing a letter to the minister and asking him to withdraw cer- tain changes that are proposed in the bill. Ordinarily, the Information and Privacy Commis- sioner does not undertake such steps, so one can well imagine that he feels strongly and, in the exercise of his independent jurisdiction, feels obliged to bring these matters publicly to the attention of the minister and to the opposition in order that his opinions be added to the debate of this bill.

I t i s i m p o r t a n t t o r e c o g n i z e j u s t w h a t h e i s s a y i n g here. He is concerned that the definition

section in

section 22 would be at odds with policy choices reflected in the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act and, in particular,

section 21. He says — and I'm quoting from his letter dated April 4 to the hon. Minister of Energy, Mines and Pe- troleum Resources — that in relation to these two classes of information it specifies,

section 22 would "deem information to have been 'supplied', even where the information has been generated by government officials through inspection, thus effectively eliminat- ing the requirement, in th e circumstances of a given case, to prove supply of information under s. 21(1)(b)." He also goes on to express further concern about

section 22. "It would deem information to have been supplied 'in confidence,' thus effectively eliminating the requirement, in the circumstances of a given case, to prove confidentiality under s. 21(1)(b)." Thirdly, "section 22(1)(

a) would protect 'informa- tion with respect to a trade secret,' not simply a 'trade secret,' thus broadening the scope that may be available under s. 21(1) of the Freedom of Information and Pro- tection of Privacy Act." I can say, having been legally trained, that the phrase "information with respect to a trade secret" is very standard lawyer's circumlocution — the kind of

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11129 thing that, in what is called plain drafting, is to be avoided — and really is, I think, Delphic in its ambigu- ity. It's perfectly unclear as to what it might mean. Quite properly, the Information and Privacy Commis- sioner raises a concern about that choice of phrase. He says — this is returning to the comments of the Information and Privacy Commissioner, a statutory officer, independently appointed by both sides of the Legisla- ture and who serves for a fixed term unencumbered by any concerns about his tenure or his independence: "I am concerned about the significant encroachment that

section 22 represents on the overriding FOIPPA" — Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act — "policy of accountability through access to informa- tion, a particularly important consideration in relation to climate change measures and their enforcement, and urge you to withdraw these changes." The "you" that's being addressed here is the minister responsible — the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petro- leum Resources, whom the letter is addressed to. [1530] There has been some subsequent public comment by the Campaign for Open Government — Gwen Barlee, who's the policy director of the Western Canada Wilderness Committee.

She's also a member of the Campaign for Open Government. She pointed out that these bills — she's also referring to Bill 18, which we'll discuss later — combined with the B.C. government's creation of a climate action committee last year that is outside the reach of B.C.'s Freedom of Information Act, is starting to show a pattern of secrecy when it comes to government plans and actions around climate change. Then I'm quoting her. "Global warming is currently the most talked-about topic, but the B.C. government is treating it as a top secret," concluded Barlee.

She goes on to refer to the clauses that are the subject of a letter from the Information and Privacy Commissioner. She is quoted as saying: "You could drive a truck through that definition." This is the director of the Campaign for Open Government: "It's very sweeping and very ambiguous." In another article, what Mr . Evans says is: "It's vital that our democratic values not be abandoned by the creation of a rapidly growin

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0409pm-03
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0409pm 03
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	e0749b27293749d04f05a40d030670e9ec791e8f

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