VOL. 3 NO. 91 PRELIMINARY JN1L3 ITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 10:00 a.rn. - 1:00 p.m. FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 1981 .

er 27, 1981 Toe No. 3812 NM - 1 The House met at 10:00 A.M. Mr. SDeaker in ahe Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Simn'.$) Order, please! 000 YR. MOORS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: On a point of privilege? On a point of privilege. The hon. member for Carbonear on a point of privilege. MR. CARTER: Oh,what rubbish! MR. MOORES: Mr. Speaker, I rise this morning on a question of priv1.1ege very sincoreJy, very genuinely and very seriously about a matter that transpired as a result of a speech that I made in this House yesterday afternoon. Mr.

Speaker, I quote from yesterday's Hansard, November 26th., 1981, and I extrapolate an exoerpt for the benefit of clarification and simplification of the House. "Nowon the other hand, about fifteen or twenty years ago when I used to drink, I remember the only time in my life that I ever got drunk. I was on the floor of the Halfway House Motel in Harbour Grace,loocing up like a fool,wondering why everybody was laughing at me. And that night I was involved in no less than three or four fisticuffs, I walked out of the Halfway House Hotel with a half a dozen scrapes on my face and half the shirt tore off my back.

And I made a decision that night that never again would I participate in the consumption of alcohol. And my colleagues here, as well as my colleagues on the other side of the House, will confirm to you that I am a teetotaler. Mr. Speaker, the ne:t step in the format of a delivery of the question of privileges in this House under the rules of procedure is that I place before this House a copy of the treoscript of a news report 1 1, 1, 71

November 2', 1981 o. 3912 - 2 M. MOOPES: on the C3C Here and Now orograrine last niht, the author of whom was a lady by the name of Elizabeth Hayneswho was in the rress gallery yesterday afternoon. And in my opinion, who wilfully, maliciously, and deliberately misrepresented the extrapolation, the except that I just read to you, so that it would indicate that I was an alcoholic, that I was an abuser of alcohol, that I ended up in a halfway house and was reformed as an alcoholic. Let me say to you, Mr. Speaker, now for larification to the public 1 i1 fl 7" S

II November 27, 1931 Tape No.3813 EL - 1 E.liG3RE5: I ava never been an al- coholic. I have never consumed alconol to any great exteot in the vernacular :nterpretation of the phrase. I have never been in a halfway house and, God forbid, I never will be and how a responsible journalist could come to that conclusion to malign, maliciously malign my character as a member of this House, I do not understand. rov, Mr.

Speaker, the CEO refused to give me a transcript of that interview and they tried every method in the world to avoid giving it to me,which just goes to further indicate that they really do not want to co-operate with an MN in the carrying out the responsibilities of his office and a member of this House. Now, Mr. Speaker, it is also con- tingent upon me to present before this House what support I can from the rules of parliamentary procedure to emphasize the severity of this matter that affects not only me but all members of this House.

I am not the only member in this House that the press has a preconditioned image of, a preconditioned image of the worst. It does not matter what I say or how I go about saving it. it alwave comes out sounding the worst.. And my speech in this House yesterday, Mr. Speaker, was in- tended to convey my genuine concern about the drug and al- cohol problems in this Province,and I thought to most members of the mouse i was successful in that attempt in conveying that coflcern. And that point, I might add, was completely missed by this marticular individual in the press nallery. Mr.

Speaker, I draw to your attention page 98,Beauchesne, fourth edition, 1958,

section 108, sub-

section 3. 'Libels on members have been constantly punished but to constitute a breach of orivileqe they must concern the character or conduct of members in that capacity, and the 1 17

November 27, 1931 Tape No. 3813 EL -.2 H?. 2400RES: oe1 muso be base arising in the actual transaction a the business of the House". And the business of the House and a transaction there- of, :Ir. Sneaker, is a speech made by any hoc. irenher.

November 27, 1981 Tape 3dl4 - I also oor Your -coour to coyss 99 and 100,

section 119 of Peauchesne, which in cart reads: 'On the 26 of Februar' 1701, the House of Corsons of one Nnited Kingdom resolved that ro prino or publish any libels reflecting upon any member of the House for or relating to his service therein was a high violation of the rights and privileges of the House. But to constitute a breach of privilege, a libel upon a member must concern his character or conduct in his capacity as a member and the conduct or language on which the libel is based must be actions performed or words uttered in the actual transaction of the business of the Houce.

Bad faith must be imputed and the charge cannot be indefinite." Mr. Speaker, I refer you to the same edition of Beauchesn6,

section 111, subsection (1) "Wilful misrepresentation of the croceedings of members is an offence of the same character as a libel." I refer, Mr. Speaker, to the sane edition of Beauchesne,

section 113, page 102, which reads in part: 'Libels upon members and aspersions upon them in relation to Parliament and interference of any kind with their official duties, 'are breaches of the privileges of the members. An attack in a newspaper

article is not a breach of privilage, unless it cones within the definition of privileges abovo given," which I have already presented to Your Honour, "and then a member is bound to lay on the Table the newspaper in which the

article complained of appears." In relation to that quotation, Mr. Speaker, hut not to tarry on it too long, I believe this could be interpreted as CBC this morning refusing to give the transcript as in itself a breach of privilege of this House. But we will not deal pith that now. I am only concerned, 1 11 fl 7 OV

November 27, 1981 Tave No. 3814 - 2 Mr. Soeaker, that one member nedia - oct all C. than., there ara and decent meocle up 4n the press oaller' as there are in this House of Assembly. But when one of raen runs astray and takes ir upon himself or herself become an assassinator of the character and menu- ration of a member of this House by wilfully misrerre- senting the facts, th,Mr. Speaker, it is contingent upon this House to take the necessary action. If, Mr.

Speaker, you find that my p:ivileges as a member of this House have been breached, then I do not want this House to take action against this lady to lose her job or anything of that nature, but I believe, Mr. Speaker, that a penaltY - PNHON. MEMBERS Rubbish YR.MCORES: And I might add, Mr. Speaker, that because some members of this House have a favourable association with the press, they are not ;oing to do it any longer at my expense. It is no news to members of this House that I have been pot-shotted for the last six years, and if the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Moroar) wants to protect his favourable association at my - AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) privilece nov. MR. MOORES: Ignoramus. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh MR. SPEAKER (Simms) Order, please Order, please The hon. member now would probably wish to conclude his case The hon. member for Carbonear.

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3815 SD - 1 1r. Speaker, I only ask,aJ : prepared to move the aPpropriate motion, that ia you find that my privileces have been breached I will moe the motion that this person be suspended for a three day period, the same as an MEA, be suspended from the press gallery for a three day period. Thank you, 1r. Speaker. NR. SPEAKER (Simms) Weli,with respect to the point of privilege raised by the hon. member for Carbonear (Mr.

Moores) hon. members will be aware that the Speaker's function in ruling on a claim of breach of privilege is limited really to deciding the formal question, whether the case conforms to the conditions necessary to entitle the matter to take precedence over the rest of the House's business. It does not extend, of course, to deciding the question of substance,whether or not a breach of privilege has in fact been committed. That question can only be decided by the House itself.

In other words, I have to determine whether or not there is a prima facie case in this particular matter and I would like to reserve a ruling and give a ruling at a later time. STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, hon. members are aware that a federal/provincial meeting of ministers of finance and provincial treasurers was held in Halifax on November 23rd and 24th where federal proposals for cut-backs on fiscal transfers to provinces were discussed.

All ten provinces were present at the meeting and were unanimous in their disapproval of the federal proposals in their present form. For some time it had been apparent that ficures crosenoad ho the federal government in the November 12th budget had been incorrect, and overstated the size of the transfers to the provinces proposed for 1982-83 and later years. On November 22nd, in a press release over the name of the fodecal Minister Of Finance, some corrections to those figures 1 1 77

Ov2rbar ', 1981 Tame No. 3815 SD - 2 DP. COLLINS: were made. However, durino the Itrel:, :t : ame cLear that t:e rovinc vera stall not sure that a credible ricture of federal intentions had vet emerged, with the result that a further meeting in mid- December has now been mlanned in order to ascertain more definitely the true value of proposed federal cutbacks. Mr.

Speaker, the finance ministers from all ten provinces have requested the federal Minister of Finance to extend the existing Federal--Provincial Fiscal Arrarigemenis Act for up to one year in order to ollow time for adequat.e assessment of the proposals outlined in the recent federal budget as well as for examination of alternative proposals for equalizatlon and Established Programmes financing. Unfortunately, it appears that this request has been dismissed by the federal Finance Minister, who instead has imposed a 60-day time limit for conclusion of negotiation.

It should be recalled that at the time of the last re-negotiation of fiscal arrangements in 1977,

tfor 27, 1981 Tape 3816 PN - Dii. CLiih5: neari a year elapsed bacuaen the time the proposa1.s were first put forward by the federal government and the conclufing of an actual agreement. Mr. Speaker, our preliminary review of the federal proonsals has identified a number of specific elements which are viewed with grave concern by the Government of Newfoundland.

These included the elimination of the revenue guarantee 2omponent of established proqramme financing pa1ments, rationalized by the federal government as not affecting post- secondary education and health care funding which is completely without validity in this Province where revenue guaranteed transfers have been utilized in a manner no different from other components of the EPT transfers.

Particularly concerning were the disincentives to resource development implicit in the federal proposal whereby each dollar sc gained for the provincial treasury might be more than offset by losses in equalization payments at the very outset of natural resource exploitation.

The proposed abandonment of a standard for the deterrnir.ation of the level of equafization payments, based on the average fiscal capacity of all provinces in the nation, in favour of adopting a standard based on Ontario's fiscal capacity alone is of much concern because, in effect, it places a cap or ceiling on the level of equalization transfers to individual recipient provinces if, in any year, the economy of Ontario suffars a downturn.

The federal proposal also includes a similar cap related to the size of the Gross National Product which runs directly counter to the concept of equalization payments to disadvantaged provinces for the purposes of enabling them to provide their citizens a reasonably comparable level of basic public services without 4 '1 fl 7 I

Ncvember 27, 1981 Tene 33.LC - 2 DR. COLLINS: resortinq to unduly burdensome levels of taxation. The fedeal budget refers to equalizarion as a corner-stone of Confederation and of course, the concept of equalization is to ho entrenched in the Canadain Constitution. It is distinctly at odds with that approach, therefore, for equalization payments tc be made subject and seconder:' to variations inthe Ontario economy and to variations in the national economy, whichever is the greater.

A corner-stone of Confederation should mean that the full maintenance of equalization payments to disadvantaged provinces are a priority above all other considerations. It is the view of this government that a corner- stone that is no secure without any reservation whatsoever is no corner-stone at all. Accordingly, the Province rejects the federal proposals for a new equalization formula which would disminish the equalization payments depending on the fluctuations in the Ontario economy or the national economy, which ever happens to be the worse in a particular year. 1 P (1

Nov. 27, 19 Tape No. 3817 - 1 OP. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, the Province does not surport one further grorosal tf the federal overnment with regard to Established Program Financinp. The federal mini- star proposes that the level of federal contributions for ust-seccndarv education and for health care in the avo- vinces should first be agreed upon, following which new standar for program Jelivery should be negotiated by pro- vincial Ministers of Education and Health with their federal couneroarts.

Presumably, new standards would seek to achieve higher standards of quality and wider accessibility, and hence higher costs. With federal contribution already fixed, additional costs could only come from pL-ovincial treasuries. In our view, therefore, the federal proposal puts the cart before the horse. The Province holds to the view that any imposition of newly defined national standards of post-secondary education and health care should be estab- lished at the same time as federal-provincial funding arrange- ments are worked out rather than otherwise.

Any other approach would particularly penalize provinces such as Newfoundland and Labrador which are least able to carry additional financial burdens. Mr. Speaker, there was a remarkable measure of unanimity amongst the prcvinces in urqing the Federal Mi-dater of Finance not to impose arbitrary time limits and one-sided preconditions on the negotiation process designed to restructure Federal Provincial Fiscal arrangements for the 1980s. M& can only hope that the very weight of concern ex- Pressed to him in Halifax by all provinces will have the desired effect.

We will have to await the further meeting planned for December 14th. in Toronto to learn the result. Thank you. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear 1 nfl

Nov. 27, 1981 Tape No. 3817 DW - 2 R. JfA (Sirs): f the Occsi has a ro:imatelv three minutes. MR. L. STIRLING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think we are beginning see - and I am very serious about this - the development of the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador soecificallv but the Government of Canada generally,being taken out of the hands of both levels of rovernment, both the House of Assembly and the House of Commons. We see a new creature developing in the form of federal/provincial corferences. And I am very concerned about it, Mr.

Spaaker, because what we ha'e here is we have a situation in which the process that was developed in the constitution now seems to have developed into a pattern,and that is one in which you have all the provinces ganging up on Ottawa and a confronta- tion started right from square one, '1 fl

November 27, 1981 Tame No. 3818 EL - 1 MR. STIRLING: You have government by press conference, government by public relations and there will a tencencv for both sides in that setup, Mr. Sneaker, both sides, both the provincial government and the federal covernoent, to resort to presenting only their side of the story and you will get hasty,last-ntinute conclusiors like the situation we saw in this House of Assembly dealing with women's rights and native rights.

You have the Premier, as an example of the federal/provincial aqreement dealing here, in which he convinced this House of Asrembly and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador that it was not in Newfoundland's best interests to recognize native rights one dcv. Twenty minutes later, because of tlephone calls - MR. SPEAIKER (Sirm(is) : Order, ploase I believe the hon. Leader of the Opposition really is MR.. STIRLING: Well, I am dealing, Mr. Sneaker, vlth the principleof this statement which has to do - AN HON. MEMBER: You are questioning the ruling of the Speaker, you know. MR.

STIRLING: - with federal provincial meetinns. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please I think the question that is raised in the statement relates to financial matters as dealt with at a meeting recently held in Halifax, as I understand the statement. So I have asked the hon. Leader of the Opposition to try to keep his remarks pertinent to the statement. MR. MARSHALL: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A point of order, the hon. the President of the Council. 1 Hfl)

iber2. 2 MR. MARSHALL: Nr. Speaker, Your Honour is en- tiled to the orotection of this House. Hhen Hour Honour r':linci to a r-obr-the member is r'- otitled, Hf. Sneaker, to debate that ruling with Your Honour, to make observations roth respect to it. He is to accept your ruling. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEARER (Sirmms) : That is certainly a relevant point of order, but I am sure the hon. Leader of the Opposition had no intention of doing that. Arid I draw it to his attention and ask him to try to keep his statements pertinent to tolS statement. HR.

NEARY: His Honour is capable of looking after himself. He does not need the help of the President of the Council. (Mr. Marshall) MR. STIRLING: I recognize that the Speaker was not done the courtesy of giving him an advance copy of this statement. The statement primarily deals with egualization and the concept of federal/provincial matters and it was de- livered by the Minister of Finance(Dr. Collins) and does not talk about finance, Mr. Speaker. It talks about equalization. I wanted to mention the pririciplo first of all, and it is a very dangerous principle we are getting involed in because, Mr.

Speaker, there are distortions in this statement. And he talks about proposed federal cutbacks. On page 2, Mr. Epeaker, he uses a statement which says revenue grants were cut back, were'rationalized by the federal government as not affecting poat-secondarv ed- ucation and health care.'1 He does not say, Mr. Speaker, that that was the position of the provinces. The provinces took that position, the premiers in their conference, supported by the Finance Minister, took that position that this was not part of post-secondary education. That is in his statement. 1

November 27, 1381 Tape do. 3818 E L - 3 MR. STRLMc-: Mr. rr on concent of eoua1izanoo. Mhat he does not mention in hese is the responsibility of this government to deliver to this k•:use of Assembly what revisions be is proposing. Me do know what he has proposed in the federal/orovincial corer- nents., All that this is is a public relations attempt in what I believe is going to be a very dangerous precedent and that is taking out of the hands of this House of Assemb- ly and the House of Commons the government of this country and this Province. AN HON. MEMNER: SOME HON. MENBERH: MR. SPEAKER(Simirs) ment. Right on lear, hecr Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Ministe,r of Develop-

7 1Q01 -me ?1 T - 1 NR. WINDSOR: Mr. speaker, members of hon. Nouse will be aware oi toe revere prcblems being hr rs due to hich interer t rates ana the anticication by our citizens that the federal budget would provide a measure of relief for new homeowners as well as for those people renewing mortgages. NR. POWER: It is a shame it did not. MR.

WINDSOR: I can only state that having examined the budgetary proposals of the Federal Minister of Finance, this government is bitterly disarpointed that these proposals seers merely to represent an effort by the Government of Canada to give the appearance of dcipg some- thing to combat current housiag problems created by their high interest rate policies.

In reality, not only do these federal initiatives offer very little to ease the present housing crisis but Newfoundi&nders should be extremely care- ful to fully understand their implications, particularly relating to homeowners faced with the prospect of mortgage renewal at high interest rates. I consider it therefore necessary, as the Minister responsible for housing in this Province, to comment: an some dotci.]. on these bud€jehanvi proposals related to housing. For any homeowner paying more than 30 per cent of household income on their mortgage, the federal budget provides for two kinds of assistance.

In the first instance, where the homeowner owns more than 5 per cent of the present market value of the home, he will be eligible to have a portion of the interest component of his mortgage payment deferred for a period of up to one year, to a 1 fl:

Tape No. 321i MR. MRNDSOR: ::imum of S2"322. Fo" noin of view of the hcroao, this is simol -: a mortoace on the ProPerty in that the total airount of the interest teferred lus interest on the deferral will accumulate for the period of one year and then be included in the principal amount owing on the mortgage. I wish to make it clearly understood that this technique involves a fully repayable loan. The proposal merely guarantees that the lending institutions '-jill not incur losses on interest deferral plans which many of them had in place prior to the intcoduction of the budget.

At the termination of this interest deferrel programme, one year, in the even the homeowner is unable to meet the higher mortgage payments resulting from the consolidation of the deferred loan and his mortgage at the market interest rate, he can only anticipate the possibility of the bank or lending institution foreclosing and disposing of his property. MR. MORGAN: Terrible. Terrible stuff. Absolutely terrible. Terrible, Shocking. MR. WINDSOR. In other words, Mr. Speaker, the fedEral policy encourages the lending institutions to foreclose on homeowners. MR. MORGAN: - Shockino 5t,1Fr. AN HON.

MEMBER: A Liberal Polio-:. MR. WINDSOR: If the lending institution, in disposing of the foreclosed property, suffers a loss on the transaction, it is presumably at this point in time that the federal government will honour its interest guarantee to the bank, not to the homeowner. I am concerned that unless interest rates decline dramatically, and there is significant growth in family incomes over the one year period of this interest deferral, many homeowners will find themselves in a position that total mortgage payments will increase with no assurance that there will be any federal programme of 1 1!1lR

_'7 -c: - 'P. ei+once to enable the fani1 +- In the situation :hers a hcre- o.r.er has ness than 5 per cent equity in the home 1

November 2", 122 1 o. 3920 CO - 1 'P. NINDSOR: arr9 ?1?O based on a household ::;onniture on morirara s::raedarr 0 ncr ceot, t}e dral oovernmeit vili agree to write off up to 100 per cent of the ma:simum guaranteed interest deferral of $3,000. Depending on the amount of acuity in the home, quito sinolv, circa a normal 10 per cent downpavment reauirement in order to qualify for a nortgace and assuming some escalation in house values since the original mortgage was arranged, I fail to see the relevaace or nerit of iatroducing a technique which will have virtually no application or eligible recipients.

Even in some rural communities in the Province where market values may be less than the original cost of the unit, the lending institutions ensure their security through hher downpayments or lower lending ratios. While these are some of my reserrations on the home ownership side, I have equally serious concerns relating to the rental sector. The net effect of the federal government proposals resiecting the rental sector will likely result in serious shortfalls in the availability of rental units.

The cancellation of tax incentives with effect from January 1982, coupled with high interest rates can only result in a deteriorating rental situation. While the Budget Speech indicates that the federal government is makiog available an interest fee loan of up to $7,500 per unit for some 15,000 rental units to be allocated across the country, I do not as vet have sufficient detail on this rroposal to determine whether or not this measure will have any significant effect in this Province. However, I would note that there is no indication that even this measure is a long term one. Mr.

Speaker, other provinces share siniJar concerns regarding the federal budget and its impact, not only on homeowners and renters, but also on the 1

::oember 27, 1931 Tare ho. 3820 SD - 2 real estate i construction industrY. with this in rind, it is my intention to meet with the foderal Housing Minister ne:t week to rurue further mY concerns in this regard and I will rerort back to 4 the House accordinclv. Thank you. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. •i?. STEALER Tha hc.n. Leader of tha Jurceition has nbou two and a half minutes. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, this was a statement not by Mr. Joe Clark, the Orocsition Leader in Ottawa, although it rounds very much like it. This was a statement, a very positive statement, by the Minister responsible for Housing. And.

Mr. Speaker, our Premier fought so hard under the Constitution to keep all our rights and responsibilities, well, one of our resDonsibilities, Mr. Speaker, is the responsibility for housing, a provincial responsibility, and 7 was looking forward to this minister coning in this morninci- MR. LDSH: This crowd is responsible for nothing. MR. STIRLTNG: Now, Mr. Speaker, on this side of the House, we wade three positive suggestions that this governmnnt could havu implanttented, it ties 1r_k completely - MR. WINDSOR: Garbage. MR.STIRLING: Garbage? Is that right Let us hear what the alternatives were.

The Minister of Housing (Mr. Windsor), Mr. Speaker, has not given one single positive alternative. Where are the alternatives? Mr. Speaker, where is the subsidy that the other provinces have used? What about the other housing ministers in other provinces who have come to the rescue of home- rwriersas we have suggested? 1 P Cr_i

:'cv 27, IO? - MP.T.TvG: Mr. Sneaker, one of the positive ohot I olrtioneh to this rejected as garbage is that Newfoundland and Labrador :::.osing would prevent foreclosure. They have the respon- 5ib4litv, they have the legislative resoonsibility, they hove the financial means. But, Mc. Speaker, they will not sell off an asset like Elizabeth Towers that could finance au of chase foreclosures thou he is so coccocrod about. Mr. Speaker, this statement is o cop-out, a complete cop-out, Mr. Speaker: NP. PATTERSON: Do you have a buyer for the Elizaboth Towers? MR. L. STIRLING: PATTERSON; MR. L. STIRLING: sale?

Yes, I do. Who? Well, is it for, sale? Is it for SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh MB. SPEAKER (Siimms) : Order, please Order, please: MR. L. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, these two statements indicate a government completely washed up. They have no sense of direction, they have no sense of responsibility, they are not answering to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, They are trying to transfer blome and they will not succeed, Mr. Speaker.

They will not succeed: The people of Newfoundland and Labrador know that this govern- rent has the responsibility and they have not come up with LI o single oroposal although it has been promised now for a lear or two. And I would not doubt that just like their magical $1,500 per person just before the last election, that before the next election you will suddenly see these people rush back into bringing out something to live up to their responsibilities instead of this complete cop-out, this complete dereliction of duty, Mr. Speaker, not acceptable to me nor to anybody else in this Province. 1 fl cj

Nov. 27, 1981 No. 1321 IN - 2 Coar, pa. ny surer statements? and Lards. MR. C. POWFR7 Mr. Sfleaker, I have today cxtraraiv rtod nave conoerninc the struts batro. elsuatirn in this Province. SPIlL H)N. MIlLS: :t-ar, hear MR.C. POMEP: This concerns this significant decline in the level of budworm infestation predicted for 1982. This "budwcrm news is by far the best, Mr. Speaker, that we have had in the last ten years. News that should brirg joy to the hearts of many Nefound1anders,especia11y those 20,000 hard- working persons who make their living either directly or in- directll from the forest resource.

Before elabora- ting, Mr. Speaker, on this exciting news, I would like to review, for all members, the 1981 budworm situation briefly. In view of the orolonged budworm epidemic spread over the last decade, which poses a serious threat to the forests and the forest industry, this hon. House debated the issue of the struce budworn stray earlier this year and passed legislation to facilitate the implements- fion of a forest protection orogramme. Legislation, I niqhb add, Mr.

Speaker, that was uniformly opposed by nembers op- posite for numerous flimsy reasons The decision was based on the recrmmendations of the Newfoundland and Labrador Royal Commission on Forest Protection and Management. A spray pro- gram was conducted this Summer. Briefly stating 595,000 acres received treatment with the chemical insecticide Matacil and 4 4,800 acres were treated with the biological insecticide Bt.

The cost of the spray orogran which covered both comPany and Crown forest lands was shared between the companies and the Crown on a 2/3rd. to 1/3rd. basis - a significant improve- ment over the 50 - 50 cost-sharing arrangement of 1978, thus saving the people of Newfoundland over $700,000.

M - gDE HON. MEHE9S: near, heart y.. C. POVER: In scite of 30c0 Tif::ltias caused by afueree ueather, the spray orogram was success- ful in reucing the budworm pomulations in the forest areas designated for protection. As a consequence of the srrav arociram, wood losses were minimized in the sprayed areas. cowever, because of the previous high levels of mortality in the Newfoundland forest, it is extremely important that additional losses to mature forest be kerr to a minimum. -4 1

November 27, 1981 Tape 3822 P1< - 1 MR PO-:FR: Altho,.igh weather conditions were not that favourarla for the spray nr-r5 e'nrne, they seemed to he equal unfavourable Icr burfvcr:n development. The spray prograre covering 595,CC. acres as ffectia in treating high hazard areas. Besides the 1931 spray programme, the frost and heavy rainfall in June this year and the associated lack of active feeding may have contributed to the decline in actual anfestation durir.g 1981.

Of course, there are always parasites and predators, but according to scientific information these were not the cause of budworm decline hecause they accounted for only a small per:entage of natural mortality. Mr. Speaker, I would also like to review the damage assessment , the actual damage received in 1981. The damage assessment survey of 1981 conducted by the Canadian Forestry Service in co-operation with our department indicates that the areas containing tree mortality decreased by approximately 20 per cent in 1981. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear MR.

POWER: This decrease came about as a result of harvesting of dead and dying timber on a priority basis on Crown and company limits,loss of infested stands to forest fires.- and refinements in survey techniques. in spite of this reduction in the total area of infestation in 1981, the volume of dead merchantable trees increased by approximately 1.3 million cubic meters. This is indictive of the ever increasing per- centage of dead trees in infested stands Of even greater concern, Mr. Speaker, is the continued increase in the area of young stands which have boen infested by budworn.

Surveys indicate that there was an incease of 35,000 areas in damaged young stands and this year bringing the total to 192,500 acres of young stands infested. The futura of these areas continues to 1

Noverbr 27, 1981 Tape 3822 PR - 2 MR. PONER: oe a major concern to mis cepartoent and to the forest industry. To place in perspective Speaker, the seriousness of this 192,000 acre ict, a mature forest area of 35,000 acres would be more than adequate to reet the wood rer±rrnent of tho ecistior indraro'- for ore The above reprsents a brief sketch of on the 1981 damage asnessment. The Canadian Forestry Service is now doing the final refinement on the details of the 1981 survey and will be reporcing in the near future. Mr.

Speaker, the forecast for 1982 province-wide surveys have been conductad to provide a forecast of population levels and extent of defoliation for 1932. Survey data indicate moderate and high populations are present in only six dietinct areas covering an estimated 50,000 acres. These areas are in the Codrov Valley,near Crabbs River, near Gallants, near Hunts Pond, South of Gander Lake, near Triton Brook, and near Twillick Brook, Bay d'Espoir. The location of these areas is shown on the attached map. Mr.

Speaker, the forecast of infestation of 50,000 acres of moderate to severe is in comparison to 2 million acres forecasted for 1981. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear: MR. POWER: In addition there is a projected 335,000 acres of light infestation for 1982. In effect, Mr. Speaker, a reduction of over 95 per cent. This outlook represents by far the lowest forecast since the infestation began a decade ago. The budworm problem is under control and manageable for the first time in 11 years. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear: 1

November 27, 1931 Tape 3822 PR - 3 Ic hac cnc ::nt de.r.aga. with rccd forest management the forest resource will have a very bright future in svfcLndiand and LahaJ.cw. SOME FON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear YR. POWER: Next year's forest orotection programme has not been determined as of yet. Information from the da.age assessment and forest service will he used along with other information on tree condition resulting from previous infestations to determine the size of next year's programme. And, Mr.

Speaker, while I cannot project the size of next year's programme it will certainly be much,much smaller than the programme of 1931. Hopefully also, Mr. Speaker, the opnositjon of the members opposite to good forest management will also be greatly reduced and thus their opposition to the 20,000 Newfoundlanders who depend upon the trees of this Province for a secure future. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear MR. POWER: Mr.

Speeker, while arcepting recommendations of the Royal Commission regarding the spray programire, government announced its commitment to an integrated approach to forest protectiot, management and utilization. Phase II of the Poole Royal Commission report will be released in a week or two and then I will be informing our citizens on their recomrnendations however, I would like to briefly review the stature of this government's initiatives on forest land tenure, intensive forest management and increased utilization. 4

ovember 27, i9da Tape 3823 EC - 1 J_1-, '•'c-]'---'--C--C #C C. '- .'' I t4c4? _ LI were granted 99 yeor loses - and licences nuring cerioci and 153. of these leases were automatically renawarie, while licerceS have no provision for renewal. The tenure arrangement has been a major rause of lack of intensive forest management in the past. Leases and licences did not reciuire companies to nanaro the forest resource according to the principles of scientific forestry. Mr. Speaker, a major initiative was undertaken in 1974 through the Forest Land (Manajement and Taxation) Act.

Companies now submit their management plans to the department, which are vigourously scrutinized and followed. The department has been able to direct the companies to harvest more and more dead and dying timber Bowater Newfoundland has already returned more than 1.5 million acres to its rightful owners, the people of Newfoundland and Labrador because of this act SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker, there is no under- standincj on this side of this hon. House of Assembly as to why it took twenty-five years after ConfeOcration to take this initiative. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear MR.

POWER: One can only guess that it had something to do with the 'resource give-away' philosophy of a government that was in place for twenty-three of those twenty-five years. SOME H)N. MEMBERS. Hear, hear '1k. POWER: In spite of this progress, the remaining 99 year licences and leases have not been conducive to full attainment of this government's objectives of good forest management. I approacled the pulp and paper 1 - fl Ci

a, November 27, 1931 Tape 3823 EC - 2 20 year ccost Management agreements renewarie after fl'e years subject to satisfactory performance ol one companies in managing the resource. At present we are In the final stages of negotiating such an agreement with Abitibi Price - Mr. Speaker, another resource returned to the people. 3OME HON. MFMBERS Hear, beer! P.R. POWER: Mr. Speaker, it is the intention of the Peckford administration to rectify this 75 year old problem. We must do so in order to pave the way for a healthy and viable forest industry.

After much discussion, the Province was finally successful in January of this year to get the federal government to sign the much delayed and badly needed Forestry Subsidiary agreement. The S52 million provided in the agreement will enable us to get more involved in reforestation, forest immrovement, access road construction and improved forest utilization. The Peckford administration also felt very strongly that the two pulp and paper companias must begin to play a major role, a more active

part in forest management. The two companies were approached with the concept of increasing their expenditures in intensive forest management. Hence, after much deliberation, the companies agreed to contribute $25 million over five years, another first for this Province, Mr. Speaker! The above commitment to the resource is in addition to the multi-million dollar mill nodernization programme launched by the two companies. The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador was successful in negotiating a mill modernization agreement with the federal government to provide incentives for some aspects '1 110

4 - MR. POWER: of this, laroe modernization 000gramme. t the same tame as ior.g-zerm dISCUSSiOnS 105 11' O' sued, we with the two companies a co-operative sonroach to immediate intensive forest management requirements. Government on its part has pursued the silviculture programme with unmatched vigour. For example, we achieved a target of planting two million trees this year as compared to 400,000 in 1979 and 800,000 in 1980. Mc. Speaker, never before in the history of Newfoundland has this level of reforestation been achieved.

The Wooddale Nursery has been developed to produce sixteer militon seedlings at full capacity which should be available for planting annually by 1984. Mr. Speaker, besides mill modernization, reforestation and a spray programme, this government issued new forest harvesting regulations that will greatly reduce wastage and thus lead to greater utilization of the resource. In

summary, Mr. Speaker, this government has achieved major successes in reducing forest losses from insects and firce - MR. MORGAN: Heer, hear! MR. POWER: - and has launched an aggressive reforestation programme. This government intends to safeguard in every way possible the economic and social uell-being of the many citizens of Newfoundland and Labrador who depend upon our trees. r. MORGAN: Hear, hear! ML. POWER: Mr. Speaker, trees are being planted, the mills are being modernized, the budworm is dramatically reduccd. The future is now much brighter.

yovember 27, 1981 Tape 3823 EC - 4 rrains to be however. have i., ou :e.. of Forestry, who deserve a great deal of creclir. SOME HON. NEMBES: Hear, hear MR. POWER: We receive suPerb co-operation from the Canadian Forestry Service of the federal government. The companies' attitudes have changed drastioillv and they are now enthusiatica1lv co-operating with this government. Mr. Speaker, let all who are cynical and skeptical as to whet.her or not the people of our Province have the ability to manage a resource, whether it be ol and gas, fishery or forestry, learn from our forestry programmes. SOME HOW.

ME1BERS: Hear, hear MR. POWER: The forest resource is owned by the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and is managed by Newfoundianders and Labradorians. Thus it is easy to understand the significant improvements. Imagine what a bright future the people of this Province would have, Mr. Speaker, if we had slmilar control over all of our esources. SOME WOW. :i:MW:WO: Hear, hear

T -' ber 2' TO1 10' - hon. riar-.er for Fco ro::ir.- ffv : 1. half rinutes. HON .NE'•IBERS: Hear, heor NP. TULK: Mr. Speaker, the lengthy statement just given by the minister has just been passed a me, it was just received when the House opened, and it will take some time to go through it. But I might say - MR. MORGAN: (Inaudible) MR. TULK: Now I wish old shark bait would keep quiet. SOME HON. ps: . MR. FLIGHT: Shark bait MR. TULI<: I must say, Mr. Speaker, that the - MR. MORGAN: (Inaudible) Fcgo Islander. MR. FLIGHT: Shark bait. Shark bait. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. MR.

TULK: that the news by the rainister that there has been a siunficant decline - MR. MORGAN: (Inaudible) in our Province. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please MR. TULK: - in the level of budworm infastation projected for 1982 is indeed welcome news. There is nobody in this Province, Mr. Speaker, who would wish to hear any better news than that there has been a criolino in the bidvorra icrEestatlon in the Province. U But, Mr. Speaker, the minister roes on to point out that this side of the House has been opposed to a spray programme. Now I would wish to take issue with the minister on that statement because, Mr.

Speaker, what we were opposed to last Spring was not opposed to a spray 1 1 1 I

3824 oc legislation which takes away the of peocle to e: injunctioor ooinst this coveroment. Now, Mt. Speaker, he talks about saving $700,000, I would ask him to explain to this House some future date if that is part of his cutback if indeed he is coing to reinfest that, reinvest that - MR. MORGAN: (Inaudible) SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear MR. TULK: - reinvest that into the NewfOundland economy. Mr. Speaker, he says that the budworm population in the forest industry has been lowered; indeed it has. Ard he then goes on to point out - MR. MORGAN: The fishermen of Fogo Island must love this. MR.

TULK: that weather conditions were not favourable for the spray programme but they seam to be equally unfavourable for budworm development. Now, Mr. Speaker, that gaves the impression that the srray programme itself is somehow responsible for the 3.ower imp of the egg count in this Province. Mr. Speaker, that is false. The minister is not only playing a God but now he is pretending to he in that he controls the weather. MR. MORGAN: There is no question, boy. You should have been a politician. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, he coes on to voint out, he says in spite of this reduction - MR.

FLIGHT: He would do a lot better than you woult there. MR. TULK: - in the total area of infestation in 1981 - MR. PATTERSON: You will not be around next time anyway. 11! 1

:o;eber 27, 1931 :'To. 3824 - S bbs vo. :5 dead trees 339,000 . is inf.:: ive of the ever increasino neroentage of 6sad trees and infested stands. Mr. Speaker, t h i s staze:.ent may be the truest one that is in the whole statement that the minister makes,because it may indeed indicate that the budworm in this Province is dying for a lack of food. In other words,there may be no more fir forests to feed on. Mr.

Speaker, he also mentions the 'oung stands in this Province and I want to point out to the minister, as I am sure he knows, that the infestation of young stands in this Province is a phenomenon that is peculiar to Newfoundland alone as opposed to the rest of North America 'and indeed that may be his biggest problem. Mr. Speaker, he points out that the budworm problem is under control and manageable for the first time in eleven years, as if that had something to do with the policies of this government. What nonsense'. What nonsense And then he goes on to point out that the spray programme may be reduced next year.

It may be. And, Mr. Speaker, I suspect that that is very aimilar to 1972 wnen this government, this administration, refused to spray because there was an election coming up. Is that coing to be the same thing in 1921? He goes on to point out the leases, getting back leases. He refused to point out that we have about five years remaining on those leases anyway. Mr. Speaker, my time has run out. I could cc on. But I would - 1 1

1 1 1001 SOME HON. MEMBERS: BY leave. By leave. YT? . MR. SPJ(ER (3imms : Order, olease Order, The hon. member still has a minute or so remaining. TULK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. He mentions the spending of $52 million in reforestao:on and so on, Mr. Speaker, and he happens to mention the federal government. He happens to mention them Well, Mr. Speaker,

November 27, 1981 Tape 3825 EL - 1 dflu sa' Co ti5 .i oiaer that he musd h. he : ppiaat 1S House, and he should thank God for the federal government hcause without them he would ce like the rest ol his counter- tarts on that side, he would be tellino us about industries that are : infdcn the drain. Yr. Speaker, he points out that rear in there 2 million - MR. FLIGHT: You have (inaudible) SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Srmns) : Order, please Md. TULK: There were two million trees pro- duced in Wda1e this year, Mr.

Seaker, in his own Tive Year Pier, he predicts that in order to do anything with the forest industry he needs ten million trees this year. And he made a statenent on November 20th, last year in Grand Falls that if we were to keep Grand Falls oper, Mr. Speaker, that we would need to start planting riobt immediately 20 million trees a year. In other words, Mr. Sceaker, he has a twenty per cent success rate. And that is very indicitive of this government. SOME HON. MMBEPS: Hesr, hear! MR. TULK: About a twenty per cent success rate. MR. FLIGHT: A PR job. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please MR.TULK: Mr.

Speaker, if I could conclude. MR.SPEAKER: Well, I must tell the hor,. member now that his time has expired. ECHE HON. MEMBEES: By leave. YB. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. member should take his seat as well. Is there leave for the hon. member

::ovehr 27, 1931 O. 3325 EL - 2 SOME HON. NTNN7: No. SIEANR (SIT: There is no leave. O9L INESTIONS MR. SPEN: hon. member for Windsar - Buchans. NB. FLIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mv gues- ton is for the actina Minister of Mines and I wonder if the minister would indicate to the House what time he got the last update on the Buchans operation, at what point in time? And when did the minister, as Minister of Mines recsie the last update on the intentions or the future plans of the Buchans mining ooration from Amoricn Smelting and Refinino Ccmuany? MR._SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines. MR.

WINDSOR: Is the hon. gentleman talking about the long--term? MR. FLIGHT: Short-term, long-term. MR. WINDSOR: Short-term ,oris he talking about the - MR. FLIGHT: 300 people workincr in there. MR. WINDSOR: -layoffs that are imminent over the Winter months? Or is he talking - MR._FLIGHT: I em asking the minister when ne got the last update. MR. WINDSOR: Mr. Speaker, probably about four or five days ago I was talking with my people out in Buchans and was advised at that time there will be some layoffs for the Minter. I think the hon. gentleman is well aware of that. MR. FLIGHT: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. TIB.

SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. member for Windsor-Buchans. 1 - r

Novm-bar 27, 1981 Tame 170. - 3 MR. FLTT Mr. Speaker, on the nineteent of Minister of (r. '1l ins) in o economic statement said to this House. 1he Buchons osee metals operation will o:ntioue at least until 1984. This welcome announcment came after it was determined that a new deposit extending life of the mine could be profitably produced', Now, Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Minister of Mines (Mr. Windsor) how he reconciles that statoment on November 19th with the fact that the American Smelting and Refining Company have notified their employees that they are shutting down the mill for three to four months.

Tho ernployues have been given layoff rotices and the mill op- eration in Bucnans will be shut down for three or four montb. Mow does the minister jibe the statement of the minister in his economic report with the facts as they are happening in Buohans today? 1: 1

No ember 27, 1981 Taoe No. 3826 dF) - 1 MR. SPEAKER_(Simms): The hon. Minister of Mines. MR. WFRTcM: Yr. Sveaker,t-'a n-: at all. The mine will still operate, the mill vill be closing down for a thrar :cnth n-ri: ion that is all. FLIGE:: Puoplementary, Mr. Sneaker. YR. SPEAKER: Supplemenrary question, the hon. member for Windsor - 3aohans. MR. FLIGHT: Would the minister r.li:at to the House whether the American Smelting and Refining Company have indicated to him that they are prepared to stockpile over the four months that the mill will be closed down, stocknile the ore that they are going to mine? NE.

SPEAKER: The hon. dinister of Mines. MR. WINDSOR: Mr. Speaker, it seems rather logical to me if they are going to continue the mine over a four month period and they are not going to mill it, that they are going to have to stockpile it , unless they have awfully big pockets. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. Final supolementary, Mr. Speaker. Final supplementary, the hon. member for Windsor - Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: There is the attitude of the Minister of Mines, Mr. Speaker, responsible for the economy and responsible for the mines a° energy of this Province. Now, Mr.

Speaker, the minister should be able to tell the -louse one thing or the other. Does the company intend to stock- rile or are they going to shut the operation down, are they ruing to lay off all their production miners? Now I would like to know, Mr. Speaker, before I go back to Buchans this weekend whether or not ASARCO is looking at a shutdown of the production end of their mines,and whether or not there will only be a few miners left in the exploration aspect of the mines. What is Buchans facing, Mr. Speaker, Are we facing a close down, are we facing stockpiling, what are we facing? 1 'I •

:;oveaber 27, 1981 Tape Mc. 3326 SD - 2 They are facing an incompetent member. ML. S?A2 (Simm:) The h:n. Minister of Mimes. ML. ::r. Spanka:-, I do not non-- I can to toe non. rentiemon that the nine -:111 continue cc :rate, they will concinue to work tharmine. uoiously they mill have to stockpile, the mill will be closed d o w n so nothing mill be going through the mill. That is all. MF. FLIGHT: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAkER: Final suomlementaow, the hon. member for Windsor - Bchans. MR.

FLIGHT: Mould the minister indicate whether or not the compary indicated to hm how many employees will be on the job after the 1st of January? How many employees can look forward to being emp1oyed with the american Smelting and Refining Company as of the 1st of January, 1982? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Mines. IF. WINDSOR: Mr. Speaker, I am not sure how many will be. I do not know if the hon. gentleman can tell me how many are employed there, but I am told that there would be about seventy being laid off. The hon. gentleman should be able to subtract that from the total number employed. MR. WEARY: Mr.

Speaker. MR. FLIGHT: Final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Lapoile. MR. NEARY: I yield, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEllER: He yields. Final supplementary, the hon. member for Windsor - Puchans. MR. FLIGHT: I will ask the minister once more, Mr. Speaker, to confirm to this House, as Min.ister of Mines, whether or not there will be any more than seventy people laid off in Suchans over the next two or three months, whether or not - he should know, Mr. Speaker, there is a commitment - SOME SON. HEMFERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER: order, please: MS.

FLIGHT: - by this mine to have an update on the Buchans situation monthly. Now will the minister confirm

November 27, 1981 Tape N. 7926 SD - 3 • EL1Gll: is Moos:. seventY neonle will cc i:.c oll in the buchans coeraciu: the next two or three months? MR. SPEAKER (Sinma) : The han. Minister of Miss. NT9. WINDSOR: Mr. Sneaker, the hon. oon:.11ran ts not well todayft I just finished telling him that there will • be seventy people laid off. ER. SPEAKER: The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Finance. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. ER. SPE\KER: Order, please The hon. member for LaPoile has the floor now. MR.

NEARY: Would the minister indicate to the House if the government have been approached by the Car Dealers Association and the car salesmen in this Province to request that the provincial government drop the sales tax on motor vehicles that are used for personal use for a year to try to stimulate car sales - drop the retail sales tax, the provincial retail sales tax in order to try to motivate sales in this Province so the salesmen can earn a living and the car dealers can stay in business? Have the government been approached on that?

-r'-,-'- EKEP Mon . Minister 2. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, there was a cornmuni- cation free the association dealing with this matter to ray department and this was Passed on to those in that particu- lar division, in the taxation division and there have been discussions carried on since. I do not think that the as- sociation has followed it up in any vigorous way. My under- standing is that this issue is not now of marked concern to them. ?R. S. NEAR: A supplementarc', Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A suoplementary, the hon. member for LaPoile. MF.S. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I would assume in that correspondence that the car dealers and the salesmen - I think it was the salesmen who approached the government in addition to the Car Dealers' Association - pointing out that sales are ter- rible in this Province, that the salesmen are not earning a decent living and a lot of the car dealers are likely to go bankrupt if the provincial government does not grant a mora- torium on the retail sales tax, provincial tax for a year or so to give the economy a chance to come back.

Would the hon. gentleman indicate to the House now if the provincial govern- ment is considering doing this for a year? I am talking about automobiles used by families for essential purposes, for trans- oortation,and vehicles that are essential to small business. Mould the hon. gentleman indicate whether the government is seriously considering granting this moratorium on the pro- vincial retail sales tax for a period of one year? MR. SPEAKER: The Mon. Minister of Finance. 1 1

S Nov. 27, 1981 Tace No. 3827 EN - 2 S-r h-s hen. meyrbor be seeking information cc hia score b.s:ausn, of coe other province has takon this aproech that is Cctirio. T had the opportunity of discussing this with some ot my cunterparts in other orovinces recently and as far as I an aware no other province is taking that route. Of course, Ontario is a special case because they are not the only orovince - I think there is automobile con- struction or, at least, asserribly in Quebec also - but certainly Ontario is the largest car manufacturer in Canada, that particular province.

Sc that a measure such as the hon. member is sugacsting would have more meaning in that Province than it would have in this Province or any other Province. And, as I say, no other Province is taking that approach. -MR. S. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER Simms : A suoplementary, the hon. member for La?oLle. MN. S. NEARY: No, Mr. Speaker, I did not raise this matter because of what was happening in Ontario, although the precedent has been established here.

I raised this matter because nf the serious nose-dives that the economy of Newfoundland has taken in the last two years since this administration took over. And I am asking the hon. gentleman if in view of the fact that these salesmen, especially the sulesmen,may end up on welfare or unemployment - I doubt if they would qualify for uneamloyment insurance - if the covarn- L] ment would consider eliminating the sales tax on essential automobiles fora one year period and after a year to review I the situation and take a look at the economy then to see if it is necessary to continue this policy.

Is it not better to do this than to force these salesmen onto the unemployment rolls and ossib1y face welfarewhich is a very bleak out- look for the future? 1

Nov. 27, 193: TApe No. 3827 OW - 3 Ar. 5EAKER bar.. :iiister of Fiance. ao. J. COLLINS: .r. Speaker, the hon. member is vetting into budretary matters essentially end, o: car'e, rae Province has already started the budgetary process tar the 1982/33 period. Not only will departments be reviewing their expenditure programs during that process but also, tf course, various fiscal matters, various fiscal policies, rarious taxation metters will he reviewed. And our retail sales tax comes up in every budget I a

November 27, 1981 Tape 3828 Pk - I DR. COLLINS: in various aspects or our re:ai1 sales to:. ci I have oib thst 'That mould be onc of the things that will be coasidered in the budgetary process. SPEAKER (Simme) : The hon. Leader of the Ooncition. MR.STIRLING: A suplementary question to Minter of Finance. Does the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) accept the fact that we now have an economic depression in this Province? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr.

Speaker, there is a technical definition of what is a recession, and I believe that technical definition is now being satisfied in the United States. The Canadian economy,of course is very much related to the American economy and we in this Province are very much related to the Canadain economy. So we are a part of what is going on in North America. I do not think though that technically Canada, as opposed to the United States, is called by economists to be in recession at the present time. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker - MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the 'non. Leader of the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: Mr.

Speaker, the question is very specific. Does the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) agree that we are now in an economic depression in this Province - not the rest of the world, not Canada-S in this Province? MR. MORGAN: Ignore the rest of Canada. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, the question is specific. The minister who is responsible for this question - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh MR. STIRLING: - the answer is, yes or no, in this Province,in his opinion. 1 1

MR. SPEAKER (Sior's): The hon. Minister of Fi. to sr', deoression -I presume the hon. member is talkino in economic terms -depression has a very distincttechnical aspect to it. • MORGAN: The Liberal Party has been in a depression for the last three yEars. DR. COLLINS: There is a technical definition of what depression is. And as far as I am aware Canada, and of course this Province is a part of Canada - SOME HON. GENdERS: Oh, oh MR. SPEAKER: Order, please DR. COLLINS: - Canada has not been defined as being technically in a depression. MR. STIRLING: A supplementary. MR. NEAPY: Call an election. MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition MR._NEARY: Call an election. MR. STIRLING: Would the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) be surprised if I told him that no lesser an authority than the Premier of this Province,that he does not talk to very much, would he be surprised if I told him that the Premier of this Province says that we are in "an economic depression in this Province"? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. NP. LUSH: The Premier would know. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I have given up beinc' surprised by anything that the Leader If the Opposition has to say. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, heer 1

I, :ovembor 27, J1 Tape J8Zd - MR. SPIAKER (Simma): The hon. member for LaPoile. rea_ e:- L 7S: Hear, hear! F'.NEAHY: Mr. SDeaker, I have a cuestion for the Minisrer of Finance (Or. Collins) in connection with offshore.I would like to follow up on some of the things that I was asking yesterday about the offshore oil develcrnent that now is put in a different persoective yesterday bv the minister. Would the minister - or perhaps the President of the Council (Mr. Marshall) who is responsible for these matters could answer the question.

Cou!d the hon. gentleman tell us now what the once of a barrel of oil would be that is produced on the Grand Banks? We were told a couple of years ago that the price of producing a barrel of oil on the Grand Banks would be $40. I

Noamber 27, 1981 Taps 3829 SC - 1 atcn ama am No. Sneaker, I am sure tOar one hon. eucieman should know by now, or the Premier should know, what will be the coct of producing a barrel of Hibernia oil now as of today? What would be the cost of Droducinq a barrel of -- '1) MM. SPEAKER (Sirnms) : The hon. the President of the Council. HP. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I suppose you might just as well ask how many annals can stand on the head of a pin. AN HON. MEMBER: Sum, I know the answur to thot one. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear MR. MARSHALL: That will all depend, Mr. Speaker, on various factors.

It will depend upon whether it is pipelinoC; it will depend upon whether there is not a pipeline; it will depend upon so many factors that that particular question is not one now that readily admits to an answer. I do not have the clairvoyancy of the hon. member. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, two years aco when we attended the conference sponsored by the former Minister of Mines and Energy, who had the answers, he told us at that time that the government was expecting ;;orld prices to be paid for oil produced at Hibernia, and it was around that time at $40 a barrel; that would the cost of producing a barrel of oil on the Grand Banks. I am sure that figure now must be updated. Is it still $40, could the hon. gentleman tell us? That is according to the government's own figures. Cr has that increased, 1 fl 1

November 27, 1981 tape 32 - I lt S?EAE2 :'s: the tor.. the Pres:7snc ct ouncii. hi.

MARSijALL: i eii quite haprt uo r.ser stions, but the fact of the matter is, any figures gtven like that by the former minister would be bseci on a whole bunch of assumptions, rresumptions and what have you and, you know, in order to make any figures like that, first of all, any figures like that would be a guesstimate and ,secondly, in order to make any figures like that meaningful you would have to know what your assumptions are, and I do not really see that, you know - surely the hon. gentlemen can ask questions much more pertinent to the immediate affairs of the Province than that. MR.

NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: I consider this to be very pertinent to the affairs of the Province, Mr. Speaker, because, as members know, the oil producing countries have just negotiated a new price per barrel for oil, which is around $34 a barrel, and they tell me that under the table deals can be made for per barrei for less than $34.

Now, if we are talking about $40 on the Grand Banks let us say that figure still remains intact, which I doubt; it is probably closer to $50 - now, now that the price of oil is dropping and there is an oil glut in the world, toes the hon. gentleman foresee any problems or any delays in developing Hibernia or the offshore oil resources because of a drop in the price of oil which is now $34 a barrel in the world markets? Will there be any delays or will there be any problems encountered as a result of, number one, a glut of oil in the world and ,number two, a

Novembr 27, 1981 Tape 3829 - 1 - ' ovid MR. SPR (Simms) The hon. che ?resirienz of the Council. YR. .Lc.RSHALL: r. Speaker, obviously, hare ocain, an arswer to a cruasticn like that would have to take into effect a whole lot of permutations and combinations both mrovipcially, nationally, internationally and what have you. So just let me say that I see no problem in developing that resource at Hibernia insofar as the present economic status of the country is and the inter- national thinq. That is the information which we have votten. I see no problem at all.

The only problem I see in the way of it is in order to assure that it will be developed, we are determined that the people of Newfoundland are going to get their fair share from the resource, and once we get that I am quite sure that we will be able to develop it. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker.

n yovember 27, 1981 Tape No. 36U - MA. 77A.7:N: Yes, Mr. frec:ar, 7117 cuascrrn iS 5cr the Minister of Social Services (7Ir.Hici, . I WuUi iiC to ask the minister is his department haviny.any problems in recruiting staff to work in Northern Labrador? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Social Services. MR. MICKEY: Mr. Speaker, I cannot say that we are having any unusual problems. It is not a place that there is any great lineup of people wanting to go there. B it for the past number of Years, the past five or six \'ears we have had a pretty stable administration in the North.

And we have increased the staff in Labrador over the past three years by something in the order of fifty per cent. So on balance I would have to say that to the largest extent no, but in certain situations ,yes. MR. WARREN: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. member for Torngat Mountains MR. EARREN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, T understand there is a position in Main for a social worker. However there has not been a social worker tRere on a perr:anent basis since August. MR. MORGAN: Why do you not apply for the job. You will lose the ne;t election anyway. MR. WARREN: Mr.

Speaker, I am just wonderinc - NP.. MERRY: (Inaudible) native rights, abor- iginal rights. MR. WARREN: - if the minister is concerned MP. SPEAKER: Order, please! .1 1 1 00

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3830 EL - 2 MR. WARREN: - about the town of Nain which has a population of 1,00-0 people and the only social worker they see is a social worker that goes in there once every two or three weeks for two or three days at a time. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Simrns) : Order, please! MR. WARREN: And this has been ongoing since August and I understand the Minister's department have been trying to recruit somebody since August. What is the problem that we cannot get anybody to go into Nain? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Social Services. MR. HIC1cEY: Mr.

Speaker, I am very much aware of the situation in Nain and I can say that it is the exception rather than the rule and that is why I gave the hon. gentleman the answer that I gave. I do not have current de- tail as to what the situation is1 hut I hope in the very near future that that matter will be resolved. The situation is that-certainly I agree with the hon. gentleman-that there has to be a permanent worker in Nain. It is not our intention to service the community on a week to week or month to month basis and every effort is being made to fill that position. Nain is, probably, Mr.

Speaker, a community where we had a pretty fair stability in terms of administration over the last number of years. And it probably a classic example of my initial comment with regards to difficulties experienced in recruiting. But in any event, I will take the matter under advisement and I will give the hon. gentleman an up to date on it just as soon as I can get some details. 1 1 1 2 1

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3831 NM - 1 MR. WARREN: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : A final supplementary, the hon. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: I just wanted to ask the minister - he probably is aware of the news report this morning on CBC radio from Goose Bay, saying that since August, with the absence of a social worker in Nain, that juvenile delinquency has increased, and other social aspects in the Department of Social Services, haveincreased in Nain- is the minister aware that juvenile delinquency in Nain has increased in the past two or three months? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Social Services. MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, I am aware of some increases. As a matter of fact it was only about two or three weeks ago that I assessed this very issue. I am not aware that there is any increase which in any way is a reflection on the fact that there has not been a social worker there. You know, I would not connect the two. But certainly I can conceive the point that there is that problem there and we are aware of it and we are trying to address it certainly. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: Mr.

Speaker, in view of the comments that the Premier made here in this House when he LI got carried away in debate a couple of days ago in which he did say that there was an economic depression in the Province, could he tell us the eight or ten proposals, could he just list off eight or ten proposals that he has for curing that economic depression in the Province? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. 1 [117 ")

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3831 NM - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, over the last two years the Government of Newfoundland has been busily engaged in putting forward eleven separate proposals now for economic and industrial development of this Province. These eleven proposals involve industrial parks around the Province, they involve the revitalization and continued enhancement of the fishery. As a matter of fact,we had provided $1.5 million for the Coastal Labrador DREE agreement,which was turned down by the federal government, to go ahead with fisheries related activities on the Coast of Labrador.

We are engaged in going after additional agreements in all the resource sectors of the economy. There are eleven proposals now put forward. There is a proposal for ongoing training because we need a new Fisheries College. That proposal is forward now to the DREE Department. As I say,industrial parks On rural development, the Coastal Labrador agreementwhich was signed, in which we had provided $1.5 million that was turned down.

There are agreements on transportation, a start on the Trans-Labrador Highwayl for example,completion of the Burgeo Road, ongoing secondary roads around the Province, the road across the Great Northern Peninsula from Plum Point to Roddickton. The Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) in dealings with the federal Minister of Transportation has indicated that we are not prepared to accept the money from one area to go in another area but we want to sign immediately a TCH agreement. We want to get on with the • airstrip prograimne on the Labrador Coast.

Ic So we have put forward a range • of proposals for dealing with economic stimulation in our Prgvince. Additionally right now we are dealing with the fishery problem. We have assisted in having Ramea reopened, a very viable fish plant for the people of that Island. We 1 H 12

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3831 NM - 3 PREMIER PEC1FORD: are now dealing with the Burgeo problem. We are in negotiations today and yesterday and the day before, and tomorrow, with federal authorities, dealing with the Lake Group problems, with the bank on an emergency kind of basis. The Minister of Development, by the way,.Mr. Speaker, I want to throw a bouquet at the Minister of Development. The Minister of Development (Mr. Windsor) over the last [1 1 Ui 21-

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3832 SD - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: month or two has worked harder than anybody else to try to get this economy going. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear PREMIER PECKFORD: His untiring efforts on behalf of the Baje Verte Peninsula and his visits- I think he has to go to Switzerland next week to have meetings with proposals that are on the table for the revitalization of the mining industry in Baie Verte, for example. There is arranged the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development's (Mr.

Goudie) programme for the sawmillers of this Province whereby we provide money now that they will pay back later to help the sawmill industry. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear PREMIER PECKFORD: We are extremely proud, Mr. Speaker, that in the areas where we have some control - AN HON. MEMBER: The first industry. PREMIER PECKFOP,D: - the forestry industry is booming. There will be, in the very near future, some announcements concerning the forestry Industry which is going to be pos- itive for the economy of the Province.

We are very, very proud of the way we are trying to handle the situation that we face in this Province. We are moving on every front, Mr. Speaker, and where we can get additional funds, we have eleven proposals now on the table. SOME HON. MEMBERS; Frear, hear MR. STIRLING: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR SPEAXKRCSiimnS1: Supplementary, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. 1 MR. STIRLING; Mr. Speaker, that is a very good list of what he. would like to see the federal government do.

Now what I would like to know is, given the present situation and knowing the hate that the ministers have for the federal government and the attack on the federal government, assuming that they are half as bad as he says they are and that he does not get any more out of his economic conference or the federal 111 2

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3832 SD - 2 MR, STIRLING: budget than he has got; dealing with the resources of Newfoundland and Labrador and the refusal to bring in a mini-budget, can he tell us whether or not, if he does not have any success in those areas, what plans does he have to spend money, for example, in the housing area which is under his responsibility, in the fishing area under his responsibility, in road construction under his responsibility? What specific plans does the Premier have of things that he can do, this government can do, dealing with what he calls the economic depression? MR.

SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the Premier. PPEMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Stirling) indicated that my answer only dealt with things that were on the table with the federal government. We, as a provincial government, assisted in Ramea without the federal government. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. PREMIER PECKFORD: We assisted in the sawmill industry without the federal government. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. PREMIER PECKFORD: The Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Morgan) assisted in a whole range of fishery projects Just the other day he made the announcement without the federal government. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, we are building the Upper Salmon project without the federal government. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, we started the Cat Arm project, $150 million, without the federal government. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. PREMIER PECKFORD; Mr. Speaker, we are going to - MR. MORGAN: The synchrolift in St. John's. PREMIER PECKFORD: - the syncrolift in St. John's, Mr.

Speaker, without the federal government. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. 1 U 12 c

Nov. 27, 1981 Tape No. 3833 DW - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: We this year provided over $20 million for roads in this Province without the federal government! SOME HON. EMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, we provided over $30 million in water and sewer without the federal government! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: And, Mr. Speaker, we will continue to provide funds in all areas to assist the economic develop- ment of this Province,as we have done in the past, as we did this year. We have ongoing the Upper Salmon plus Cat Arm. Just those two projects alone, Mr.

Speaker, $150 million plus $80 million. And if you can do your mathematics that is a fair chunk of change in developing the hydro resources of this Province so we are not dependent on imported oil, so that we can give to the consumers of this Province the cheapest possible electricity. And I could go on, Mr. Speaker, The range of achievements is incredible! It is incredible! And we will continue to do so. Over the next week and two weeks, Mr. Speaker, we will he indicating to this hon.

House and to the people of Newfoundland other incentives that we will be taking to help industrial enterprises in this Pro- vince. SOME HON. EMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. L. STIRLING: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): We have about fifty seconds remaining. U The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. L. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, when the Premier says that he does not intend to help any of these private indus- tries that are nuisances around our necks , could he tell us how many other companies on his list does he intend to let go bankrupt before he intends to do anything about it?

Could he list these nuisances around his neck that he would like to let go? 1 1 77

Nov. 27, 1981 Tape No. 3833 DW - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, this government will not be deterred by the doom and gloom and the negative at- titude that the people in the Opposition have about our future. We are optimistic about our future. We are con- fident that we can manage our resources, create wealth and help our people from Cape Chidley to Cape St. Mary's. That is what we are committed to! That is what we are going to do! But we are not going to necessarily just bail out an industry for the sake of bailing it out and then it will not be viable. Look at our performance, Mr.

Speaker, look at our performance in Stephenville Look at what a fantastic achievement that that has been! A Liberal blunder turned into a Tory success, Mr. Speaker! SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: How about St. Lawrence? What did we do in St. Lawrence when the mine in St. Lawrence closed down, Mr. Speaker? The initiative came from the provincial government to initiate a new fish processing plant in that particular area and now we have a very vibrant community based upon a renewable resource. That is the way, that is performance, Mr. Speaker! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER PECKFORD: That is performance! SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Sirnms): expired. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: Hear, hear! Order, please! The time for Oral Questions has Oh, oh! Order, please!

Nov. 27, 1981 Tape No, 3833 DW - 3 PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. - SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave! By leave SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, p1ease I have recognized the hon. Minister of Finance who is tabling a report. The hon. Minister of Finance. DR. J. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, pursuant to the relevant sections of the Financial Administration Act I wish to table copies of three special warrants. MR. SPEAKER: Any other reports? ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. W. MARSHALL: Order 2. '1 ;i 170

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3834 EL - 1 LI On motion, A bill, "An Act To Ratify, Confirm And Adopt An Agreement Between The Government And The Government Of Canada Respecting Reciprocal Taxation Of These Governments And Their Agencies". (Bill No. 106). read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Government Reorganization (General And Miscellaneous Prov- isions) Act, 1973", read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill No. 66) On motion, a bill "An Act To Amend The Constabulary Act", read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill No. 46) On motion, a bill "An Act To Convey Certain Trusts And Properties In The Province To The Montreal Trust Company Of Canada", read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill No. 52) On motion, a bill "An Act To Amend The St.

Clare's Mercy Hospital (Incorporation) Act, 1960", read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill No. 61) On motion, a bill "An Act To Amend The

Summary Proceedings Act", read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill No. 64) On motion, a bill "An Act To Establish The Alcohol And Drug Dependency Commission Of New- foundland And Labrador", read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill No. 109) On motion, a bill "An Act To Amend The Workers' Compensation Act (No. 2)", read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill No. 104) 1[]1 q 0

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3834 EL - 2 On motion, a bill "An Act To Remove Anomalies And Errors In The Statute Law", read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper (Bill No. 89) On motion, a bill 'An Act To Amend The Education (Teacher Training)Act", read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper (Bill No. 50) On motion, a bill "An Act To Enable Price (Nfld.) Pulp & Paper Limited To Become A Federal Corporation", read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper (Bill No. 115) Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend And Revise The Law Providing For Accessibility To Buildings For Physically Disabled Persons", (Bill No. 118) MR.

SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the Minister of Labour and Manpower. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, I am particularly pleased today to move second reading in the Year of the Handi- capped of a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend And Revise The Law Providing For Accessibility To Buildings For Physically Disabled Persons". Mr.

Speaker, when the responsibility for the building accessibility act was passed to the De- partment of Labour and Manpower earlier this year, it was the intention of government, the wish of government at that time that the present act be revised and that people be put in place • so that the enforcement provision under the act could be put in place almost immediately so that the disable people in New- foundland would have access to all public buildings. And, Mr. Speaker, it not only does this with respect to new construction 1 111 R I

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3834 EL - 3 MR. DINN: but provision is made in the bill for existing buildings as laid out in the act. The purpose of the act, Mr,Speaker, of this bill, is laid out in clause 3, and for the purpose of putting this into the record I would like to read clause 3 to hon. members so that we understand basically what we are doing with this amendment. 1 [ 1 3

November 27, 1981 Tape 3835 EC - 1 MR. DINN: "The purpose of the bill is to require

a) in the case of buildings, the entrances and facilities available to and accessible by members of the public for lawful purposes,to be available to and accessible by physically disabled persons, and

b) in the case of apartment-type buildings, the entrances and facilities, not including those in relation to individual residential units, available to and accessible by residents in the apartment-type buildings for lawful purposes, to be available to and accessible by residents who are physically disabled persons." Mr.

Speaker, as I said in my opening remarks, when the responsibility for building accessibility was put to the Department of Labour and Manpower, many people in the Province concerned with accessibility in the Year of the Disabled, wrote me with respect to how quickly the department could react and make sure that this bill be brought in,and these amend- ments be made,in the Fall sitting of the House. And, Mr.

Speaker, I have to take time during these intro- ductory remarks,to compliment the Minister of Public Works and his officials for the work that they have done in the past couple of years with respect to building accessibility, and with respect to the recommendations his department made to mine when the responsibility for the act was transferred to my department. Mr.

Speaker, two years past, the minister met with all the groups throughout this Province - he met with the building trades people, the construction people, the Consumer Organization for the Disabled in Newfoundland and Labrador, the Community Services Council, and, Mr. Speaker, it made my task 1Lu1

November 27, 1981 Tape 3835 EC 2 MR. DINN: extremely easy to in six months,be able to put this bill together and the regulations - which have not been 100 per cent completed as of yet - but the regulations in place, so that disabled people in the Year of the Disabled, have access to our public buildings. Now, Mr. Speaker, I also want to take time out in my opening remarks to compliment the Minister of Social Services (Mr. Hickey) who has always had interest for disabled people, helping them in whatever ways he could.

His recommendations to me and to my department, and to the Minister of Public Works and Services (Mr. Young) over the past couple of years, have been invaluable, Mr. Speaker, his personal recommendations and the recommendations of his officials, so that, Mr. Speaker, we have before us today a piece of legislation that I believe, over the next few years, will assist our disabled people in the Province to have access to all those places that the public generally have access to. It should have been done a long time ago. When the original bill was passed, Mr.

Speaker, many things that were not foreseen at that time came into play and the previous act did not provide for the capability of the Lieutenant-Governor- in-Council, for example, to make appropriate regulations when changes came about due to changes in the national Housing Act, due to changes with respect to descriptions of buildings that would be accessible to our disabled 1' people. And, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Social Services, the Minister of Public Works, and their works, the works that they performed, and the documentation 101 I.

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3836 NM - 1 MR. DINN: that they have provided to the Department of Labour and Manpower, provided me with the capability, which I would not have had, the capability of being able to bring this great piece of legislation forward in this Fall sitting. Mr. Speaker, what we have now is a bill that will provide accessibility to our disabled people to public buildings, and to apartment units. I believe the description in the bill is "units of apartment buildings of five and above. And Mr.

Speaker, it will take some time to bring this act, this bill, to make this bill effective, but we now have the mechanism in place whereby we can enforce this law in the Province,if we get agreement in this House and this bill passes this Fall. Because we have, Mr. Speaker, in place a director, we have in place inspectors in the Department of Labour and Manpower, Mr. Speaker, who can go about - we have our electrical inspectors, our elevator inspectors, our boiler and pressure vessel inspectors in the Engineering and Technical Services

section of the Department of Labour and Manpower, plus the fact, Mr. Speaker, that we will be hiring a person who will be knowledgeable, or will become very knowledgeable very quickly about the requirements of this amendment so that accessibility will be provided to our disabled people. Now, Mr. Speaker, I think I would also like to bring up to the House clause number (5) just to point out to hon. members, and to the people of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, clause number (5) which is a very, A. very important clause in this bill.

The purpose is laid out in clause (3) but I think reading clause (3) and not reading clause (5) , a very important clause, that I received assistance 1r1 c

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3836 NM - 2 MR. DINN: from the Ministers of Social Services and of Public Works to see to it that clause (5) was put in and clause (5) (1) reads, and I will read it for the House so that it goes into the record, "The Lieutenant-Governor in Council may prescribe such period or periods of time after which the provisions of this Act apply to buildings existing at the commencement of this Act, and such periods may be different for different classes of buildings." Now, Mr.

Speaker, basically what that says, is that not only is the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador making sure that buildings constructed after this act comes into play, new buildings, will be made accessible to our disabled people, but buildings that exist. And Mr.

Speaker, because of the difficulty that we have had, that has been outlined by the various sectors in Newfoundland and Labrador, we had to put that provision in the act so that certain buildings, for example, can be done in a very short period of time but other buildings that would have great difficulty in being modified to be accessible to our disabled people, may take a longer period of time. So we had to put a clause in there that would be variable. But let no one in the Province, Mr. Speaker, think that this government is not serious about making sure that our disabled people have access to all buildings. Mr.

Speaker, today in introducing this bill I have complimented and thanked government officials for the assistance I received from them, but I also want to mention the construction associations of this Province for getting together and providing us with the information that we required, the Community Services Council, 1 P 1 r

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3836 NM - 3 MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, who provided a great deal of information and a great deal of assistance to my department and to the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Young), so that he could make the recommendations that he did, the consumers, the Consumer Organization of Disabled Persons of Newfoundland, led by a lady from,I believe Glovertown, Mrs. Irene McGinn, Her 9 1 L' 1 3 7

November 27, 1981 Tape 3837 PK - 1 MR. DINN: organization provided us with a great deal of informatior so I feel right now that this piece of legislation is a leader in Canada, Mr. Speaker; so that we couldin this Year Of The Disabledprovide a piece of legislation of the quality that we have before us today. Mr.

Speaker, I would also like to thank • and point out and recognize the assistance given to us by the Newfoundland Association of Architects and by the Newfoundland Home Builders Association, and Newfoundland and Labrador Construction Association, along with the many private individuals who submitted their information to us, the background of which was used in bringing forward this piece of legislation at this time, and also in assisting us,Mr. Speaker, in bringing forth, in preparing the required regulations that will be brought into effect when this bill is passed by the House of Assembly. Mr.

Speaker, I will be listening to what hon. members of the House have to say with respect to the legislation, axd, Mr. Speaker, in nv closing remarks, hopefully will be able to answer any questions that the hon. members have. Certainly I will provide all the information necessary so that hon. members are aware, as are the people of Newfoundland, of what this piece of legislation does. I think it is a great step forward in this Province. I think that it could not have been done without the assistance that I received from different organizations and ministers and officials. I am proud that it is here.

I am proud that the bill has the teeth that it needs. And, Mr. Speaker, I will be interested in the comments made by hon. members and hope for speedy passage of this piece of legislation so that the disabled people in this Province can be assisted in the future, Mr. Speaker, and so that they can have access to all public buildings that we, say normal individuals,have access to. 1 1

November 27, 1981 Tape 3837 PK - 2 MR. DINN: So with that, Mr. Speaker, I move second reading. MR. SPEAKER (BUTT): The hon. member for Terra Nova, MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, we certainly on this side of the House want to support this bill and to commend the government and to commend the minister in this Year Of The -Disabled for bringing in this bill, a bill, Mr. Speaker, which will open up a new world of opportunity to the physically handicapped, the physically disabled.

One thing is accessibility, but what this accessibility will do,of course, is to allow these people to participate in and to compete for jobs in many parts of the Public Service, ir particular, and in the private sector as well, we would hope. So, Mr. Speaker, it is not merely accessibility, it is the kinds of opportunities that this accessibility will now provide to the physically disabled, opportunities that were formerly denied these people.

So many of these people have been denied jobs because,of course, they could not get to the building, they could not get in there, 2nd now,with these regulations,we hope that these people will be given this opportunity of obtaining jobs and being able to earn a living the same as ordinary people. No doubt in the past, Mr. Speaker, we have seen the capabilities of the physically disabled displayed in the public sector and in the private sector.

And it is absolutely heart-warming to see the numbers of people in recent years, the numbers of physically disabled people who have overcome their disabilities because of the sensitivity of people in the private sector and agencies in the public sector, as well, who saw the obstacles and the discrimination against these people in

November 27, 1981 Tape 3837 PK - 3 MR. LUSH: terms of accessibility to buildings.And over the past number of yearswithout this legislation, I think- we have seen a number of people, particularly in the public service and charitable organizations,doing precisely this, making buildings accessible to the handicapped . And,as I have said before, it has 1 Lii L fl

Nov. 27, 1981 Tape No. 3838 DW - 1 MR. T. LUSH: opened up a new world to these people. It has given them the opportunity to become independent, it has given them the opportunity to participate and to earn their own living. And, Mr. Speaker, there is nothing worse in this world when a person feels, of course, that he cannot earn a living because of some handicap, simply because, cf course, he has no way of getting to the work place. And over recent years we have seen this kind of change and, of course, not nearly quick enough.

We hope that this Act will have the effect of certainly speeding up the accessibility to these people not only to make a living, Mr. Speaker, although that is a big one cer- tainly. Because many of those people are trained and capable of working. So it is not only that, it also will allow them the opportunity to carry on their own business affairs, to go to government offices to do the many things that we have to do in public buildings and other buildings in this complex world. There are so many things that we have to do to get around, move around and this will certainly help these people.

They will not be dependent on other people. They will be able to carry on their own affairs, their own business affairs, ac well as provide them with the opportunity of making a living, to provide them with the opportunity to participate in those ordinary affairs that we take for granted. I think, Mr. Speaker, really over the years that more than, let us say, doing the thing intentionally of not providing accessibility, I think it was just a matter of not being sensitive to the concerns and to the needs of the handicapped people. 1U1L1

Nov. 27, 1981 Tape No. 3838 DW - 2 MR. T. LUSH: So now, of course, with these regulations we hope that these things will change and that the physically disabled oeople of this Province will cer- tainly have, as I have said before, a new world opened up to them because of these accessibility regulations, because of this particular Bill. There is only one thing, Mr. Speaker, that I would like to ask - it is not a major point, I am sure - but I just wondered why,for example, that this particular Bill would come under the Depart- ment of Labour and Manpower?

It might be very obvious when the minister can point it out to us,but by just looking at it,it would seem to me that it would more logically fall under the department that looks after housing or some other department. But just on the surface of it, it does not look to be a logical thing to fall under the Department of Labour and Manpower. So I would certainly like for the minister to deal with that,as to why this particular Bill falls under the Department of Labour and ManpowerThecause one wonders whether the expertise is in the Department of Labour and Manpower to deal with this kind of regulation.

As I have said before, it would seem to fall more lo'ically under some other department, under Municipal Affairs which is involved in building or in housing, this sort of thing. But the Department of Labour and Manpower which is to look after labour problems basically does not seem to be the logical choice. But maybe the minister can elab- orate upon that and tell us why it is that it does fall under the Department of Labour and Manpower as opposed to some other department which would seem to be a more logical department than the Department of Labour and Manpower. 1 1 ii"

Nov. 27, 1981 Tape No. 3838 DW - 3 MR. P. LUSH: But that, Mr. Speaker, does not affect the principle of the Bill at all and it does not affect the usefulness of the Bill.

It is just a matter of—in terms of seeing that this Bill is carried out, that the regulations are carried - it would appear on the surface that maybe the Department of Labour and Man- power is not the logical department, that maybe some other department more suited to building, building codes and this sort of thing would be the logical department and the department with the expertise to carry out this Bill and would appear,if it were put under such department, it would not need extra personnel because that expertise would be there.

But I just want to make that point and leave it to the minister to explain why it was seen fit by the government to place it under the Department of Labour and Manpower,which will be very important, Mr. Speaker. Because one thing is having a Bill and nuniber twois ensuring that the regulations are adhered 1J1L2 4

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3839 SD - 1 MR. LUSH: to. There is no point in having a bill if, one, we do not give it the teeth and the power, or to give the bill the teeth that can carry out the regulations that are intended. So that would be my only concern with the bill right now at this particular moment. But with respect to its principle, Mr. Speaker, the principle of the bill, we agree that it is a very important bill, that it is certainly a bill that will receive the approve' of all of the people throughout this Province. This is the kind of 'Dill, Mr.

Speaker, that will not find one dissenting throughout this entire Province. And,as the minister pointed out, one wonders, of course, why we did not have this particular kind of legislation sooner.But,I suppose, Mr. Speaker, it has to do with attitude and a lot of other factors within society. And it is because, of course, of the concerns of the handicapped people themselves, the physically disabled people themselves because they were able to take up the cudgel, as it were to go to work on this and fight for themselves.

And as the minister indicated certainly a person who deserves a lot of credit for this bill today is none other than Mrs. Irene McGinn from my own district, the district of Glovertown, a person whorr I know well, a person who I worked with throughout the years. And she is to be given great credit, Mr. Speaker, for the work that she has done with the physically disabled throughout the years. A lady, Mr. Speaker, who has overcome her own handicap, a lady who has been awarded the - what do we call that award for the physically disabled? - the Pippy Award.

She won that award this year in recognition of the way in which she was able to overcome her own disability to be a completely independent person. And, Mr. Speaker, recognizing the obstacles and the things that were preventing other disabled pecple from making their own way through life, she certainly fought for them, became involved and over the years she has done a marvelous job, she has done an excellent job, Mr. Speaker, and there are not 1 Ui L!

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3839 SD - 2 MR. LUSH: enough words that I can say in commending Mrs. McGinn for the tremendous effort that she has put into helping the physically disabled, not throughout this Province alone, Mr. Speaker, but throughout Canada. And she 4 is to be commended for her concern and for her involvement and for the success that sh has attained in her own personal life and also in working with others and giving others, Mr.

Speaker, the courage and the incentive to overcome their own disabilities, and then by convincing society of the necessary changes that we have had to bring about to be able to make life a little easier for these peopleto be able to accommodate their needs and demands. So, Mr. Speaker, she is certainly a lady to be praised and a lady to be commended. And I am glad that she is from the district of Terra Nova and I am glad that I have been associated with her. So, Mr.

Speaker, we,as I have said, want to commend the government for coming out with this bill in this the Year of the Disabled and certainly this is a good way, an excellent way, to show the physically disabled that we, as a parliament, as a Eouse of Assembly, are certainly concerned about the physically disabled and want to do anything that we can in terms of legislation to help them to become independent people, to help them to make it through life the same as ordinary people - those of us without any handicaps, those of us who are well in body, soul and mind, Mr. Speaker, as it were. 1 ] 1

November 27, 1981 Tape 3840 EC - 1 MR. LUSH Mr. Speaker, there is one other concern I want to raise. It is a rather important one.

I talked about the importance, of course, of putting teeth into the bill, the importance of putting it under the right department so that we could assure that the regulations will be carried out, that it just will not be another series of regulations that will not be adhered to, that we should ensure that they are put in the right department, that they are put under the right administrative body with the right expertise, so that all the things contained in the bill are adhered to with respect to future buildings and existing buildings. But, Mr.

Speaker, one wonders how serious the government is with respect to this accessibility when, as far as I know, for example, that with the latest construction in this city right now, with respect to the skywalks at Memorial University, I understand that these are not accessible to the handi- capped of this Province. Now, Mr. Speaker, that certainly is an important point, that is an important matter.

We have the government now bringing in this legislation to ensure that in the future that in public buildings we have accessibility for the handicapped, and we start building this Summer, skywalks at Memorial University and, to my knowledge, we have not provided accessibility for the handicapped. This is the government's own project, and, Mr. Speaker, certainly a very important matter. I am wondering whether the handicapped have I not raised this matter.

I am surprised if they have not raised this matter with the government,that here we are building two skywaiks for the students of this Province right on the eve of this bill and we have not provided accessibility for the handicapped of this Province. Mr. Speaker, I am wondering whether it is too late to take care of that. 1 U 1 b R

November 27, 1981 Tape 3840 EC - 2 MR. LUSH: Because this certainly would be a great inconvenience on these handicapped people, moreso, Mr. Speaker, for those who are able to get around than the handicapped, naturally. People who use wheelchairs and one thing and another, to be staying in residences, having to get to classes, and to find out that we now have put in these expensive skywalks and we have not made provision for the physically disabled of this Province. And I am pretty certain, Mr. Speaker, that they have not made this provision.

So here right away, we have the government almost flaunting their own regulations, setting up a set of regulations and then proceeding with something so important as the skywalks- I suppose that is the official name for them, is it? - MR. HOUSE; Yes, it is. MR. LUSH: - and not having made provision for the physically disabled of this Province, not giving them the same convenience as we have the other students. And I think, Mr. Speaker, that certainly is a serious oversight by somebody in government, that that service was not provided for the physically disabled of this Province.

I hope something can be done about it and I hope the minister will address this point. Maybe there was some reason. Maybe it was architecturally impossible, but I doubt it very much, Mr. Speaker. I am sure in the twentieth century that it is not architecturally impossible, because I understand we are doing all sorts of things in transportation now 4, with respect to buses and all this sort of thing so that the physically disabled are able to use our public modes of transportation, be it trains, buses, airplanes, whatever.

And I hope that we will see in the future that all of these modes of transportation and all of the things we use, apart from buildings, 131 Y

November 27, 1981 Tape 3840 EC - 3 MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, will be made accessible to the handicapped of this Province, to the physically disabled, because getting into buildings is one thing, Mr. Speaker, but to be able to move around - and sometimes those of us again who can do those things take them for granted, do not realize the great in- convenience to people who cannot use the public transportation system. So I understand that there are also moves in this area and that there are some moves afoot to try to accommodate the physically disabled with respect to using public transportation throughout Canada. Mr.

Speaker, it is certainly unfortunate that we have the government bringing out these regulations right now in this ,The year of the physically Disabled,and to certainly not provide accessibility 101 q

November 27, 1981 Tape NO. 3841 EL - 1 MR. LUSH: or provide the handicapped use of these skywaiks, these two skywaiks that are now being constructed in this the Year of the Disabled. In this the time when the government brings in this bill, to not have done that seems to be certainly a matter of great concern to me. And it brings into question, Mr.

Speaker, really, the sincerity of this bill when we have the government bringing in these regulations to go and con- struct skywaiks at Memorial University where we have - cer- tainly we want this place to be accessible to the physically disabled people of this Province. If there is one institution that we want to be accessible to the physically disabled, it is certaily Memorial University.

So, Mr.Speaker, that is a matter of concern to me and I am sure it is a matter of concern to the physically disabled of this Province and if there is any- thing that can be done to correct that matter,I would certainly urge the government to do so and to do so quickly, Because, Mr. Speaker, it is certainly a matter of grave concern to the phy- sically disabled of this Province and what we do, as we have said before, what we do for other people then we should also do for the physically disabled. But, Mr. Speaker, outside of that let us say that we support the bill.

We commend the government for bringing it in and,we hope that they demonstrate that they have every desire to carry out all of the conditions and re- gulations of this particular bill. Thank you. 4 MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Butt): The hon. the Minister of Social Services. 101

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3841 EL - 2 MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to hear the hon. gentleman finally say that he supports the bill because I had some doubts there for a while. Mr. Speaker, I am not going to be too long. I cannot let the opportunity go by without making a few comments on what is yet another masterpiece, if I can call it that, for this administration. This last couple of weeks, Mr.

Speaker, there havebeen two pieces of legislation go through this House which can and will have such impact and such effect on so many of our people who are confronted with problems and who have been for so long, and have gone to the largest extent unnoticed. Now, finally, they can look for some solution to their very serious problem. The Accessibility Act - there are a couple of items the hon. gentleman raised which were rather interesting to me. He wanted to know why it is in Labour and Manpower and I do not purport to speak for my colleague who will very ably explain why it is there.

Let me tell the hon. gentleman that I have some connection with this legislation, having introduced the initial bill in 1978, one which I cited as a step forward, one which I was not really happy with but at least we were getting somewhere. We at least commenced or started to tackle this very serious problem of barriers facing the disabled people. That legislation was inadequate. I knew at the time that it would not solve all the problems but it was at least a step forward. That bill,when it was passed through the House, Mr. Speaker, was under my department.

Having wrestled with it for a while, we found that we had no expertise 4 in this area. This was an area which required, number one, an engineering expertise on the one hand,and a real knowledge, detailed knowledge of construction and the construction industry, the building trades •1 1 1 c n

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3842 NM - 1 MR. HICKEY: and all the rest, And then it was transferred to my colleague in Public Works, and he did a great deal of work and made some very real attempts to make that legislation work, and to make it operative. And between the two of us we still could not really solve the problem. We still could not really achieve the goal that -4 government had envisaged.

And finally it was transferred to my colleague in Manpower and Labour, and with the help of all, and all my colleagues, we have today, finally, this amendment to the original act, which will solve the problems, and which will meet the needs of the disabled community. My colleauqe,I am sure will explain why it has finally found its right home, finally found the right place, because his department is expert in a number of areas of inspection, andindeed,has the mandate in a number of areas of inspection which he will go into in some detail. What I want to say in the couple of minutes that I wish to use, Mr.

Speaker, is that this has got to be one of the most major steps taken on behalf of the disabled community in this Province. One has to broaden his horizons so to speak, to realize what this legislation means and what it is all about. Is it to provide access to apartment buildings? The answer is yes. obviously. But, Mr.

Speaker, it requires the opening up of places of employment which will allow the disabled people like never before to find their place into gainful employment, be it part-time or full-time, as well as allow them to be able to realize the a fulfillment in their lives they have never been able to realize before. Because disabled people throughout this Province have been in the past, and are are today, confined to certain areas within our society, and outside of that they cannot move, cannot go. 1 [ji 1

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3842 NM - 2 MR. HICKEY: Another classic example, Mr. Speaker, of breaking down the barriers which have kept disabled people down so to speak, and kept them from reaching their full potential and now, at lasthere is the vehicle which will solve that problem and I commend my colleague, the Minister of Manpower and Labour (Mr. Dinn) , and indeed my colleague in Public Works and Services (Mr.

Young), for the tremendous work that they have done,respectively,in their own departments. would like to mention as well the efforts and the demonstration by government in this the Year of the Disabled, to highlight the ability of disabled persons by the classic example of the numbers of those who have been hired within the Public Service in this Province, exceeding the numbers ever before, Mr. Speaker. And let no one question the sincerity or commitment of this administration to do something for our less fortunate citizens, or our citizens who have got particular problems. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, heart MR.

MICKEY: we have demonstrated it in so many ways this year that I am really and truly proud to be Minister of Social Services,with some responsibility for this very critical area,at a time when an administration such as this administration so clearly demonstrates its commitment not only in the hiring of disabled persons and allowing them that opportunity that they have sought for so long and which has escaped them, but also to take that final, very critical and important step. And what we are saying today, Mr. Speaker, to the disabled community is that at last 1 1211 F1

November 27, 1981 Tape 3843 PK - 1 MR. HICKEY: in due course no place will be barred from you. The barriers will come down at last, at last you have been unshackled from that which has held you and kept you and prevented you from realizing a fuller life and realizing gainful employment and realizing your rightful place in society. It is not enough, Mr. Speaker, to open up the education areas of this Province to the disabled person. Maybe the hon. gentleman has a point when he talks about the skywalks. I am not competent to make any comment on that particular issue.

I have some feelings, but really they are not appropriate at this time because I really would not know what I am talking about in terms of the engineering problems that may be involved,or the technical problems that may be involved. I will leave that to someone who is more competent to speak on it.

But I will say this though, it is not just enough to open up the educational facilities in this Province, as has been the case,to the disabled community, it is not enough for governments, as governments have done in the past, both federal and provincial, to open up its programmes, and create programmes, to encourage through rehabilitative methods the educating and the full development of the potential that the disabled people have. What use is it if, when a disabled person having achieved,as I know of one, a Master's degree has to leave this Province and go to British Columbia to get a job. Why?

Because the only positions that he could * have gotten were in buidings that he could not get into, Mr. Speaker. That is a pretty sad commentary of a system. • That clearly shows a weakness in a system. And that is why I highlight that, Mr. Speaker, to remind hon. members of 1 31

November 27, 1981 Tape 3843 Pk - 2 MR. HICKEY: just what we are doing today, and the significance of it. As I said, it is futile and useless to spend the monies that have been spent in the past by both levels of qovernmentto encouraqe and,indeedto provide facilities and programmes to fully develop our disabled persons, if we do not qo that other step and allow them full access to the labour market. And that is what this legislation is doing today. Mr. Speaker, I cannot find words to say how proud I am as Minister of Social Services who deals with the disabled community in this Province.

And I am so thankful that, as I said, I cannot adequately express it on behalf of those people who already see this and who already know what it means to them, for at last our disabled people not only will be able to find employment- but what is equally important, Mr.

Speaker, disabled persons who have not been able to get out of their homes very often to go anywhere of any account will now be able to realize a more full life through visitations and through normal living, the kinds of things that you and I, Your Honour, take for granted, do not put very much value on because, I suppose, one could say, you have to be there to experience, to really and truly feel it and understand it. I have had the privilege and pleasure • of being close to a lot of those people s and I hope I understand, to at least some degree, their plight.

That is why I am so proud and happy today to see this legislation go through. It will take some time, of course it will. It will take one horrendous amount of money. Let us not forget that. That is another significant factor in what this administration is bringing about today. But I too would be remiss if I did not 'in 1 :: I1

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3844 SD - 1 MR. HICKEY: as Minister of Social Services, express my most sincere thanksas my colleague has done, to the people in industry, the construction industry and to all the organizations as mentioned by my colleaguewho have worked so hard and who have finally resolved their issues and problems and come together to support this cause. For that I am truly grateful. Mr. Speaker, it is a big day for the disabled people in this Province,and at last we are finally achieving the goal which we have been working on for so long. MR. SPEAKER (Baird): The hon. member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I would like to say a few words on this bill. As my hon. colleague from Terra Nova (Mr. Lush) said, we are in full support of this bill, Bill 118, that finally is giving the disabled people in this Province the opportunity of getting into the employment field, getting into buildings that they need to get into for their well being, Mr. Speaker. I want to go on record as saying that I do not think there is a more determined group of people in this Province than those who have a handicap problem. Mr. Speaker, these are the most determined people you can witness in society. And, Mr.

Speaker, speaking from experience, in the few years that I was working in Happy Valley/Goose Bay I was very much affiliated with the handicaoned oroup there. Pretty well daily I was in close contact with several members of that handicapped group,and I tell. 17rm 'r. qneaker, that when you have the determination of that group of people - it was only a small number, maybe ten or fifteen in number, but they went out, Mr.

Speaker, just to give you an example of what determination they had, they went out and used their wheelchairs and any ther means possible on one sunny Sunday afternoon and raised in excess of $2,000 in trying to find some monies to put ona building and renovate a building capable of accommodating them. That day, Mr. Speaker,was called,'A Mile for Quarters'. 101 c

November 27, 1981 Tape No. 3844 SD - 2 MR. WARREN: And I think my hon. friend, the member for Naskaupi (Mr. Goudie), probably can recall that the people in the community, the people in Happy Valley/Goose Bay, participated, went up and helped to wheel some of those in the wheelchairs down the streets to gather money from whatever public sources possible. But those people were the determining factor behind it, Mr. Speaker, It was not us out in society as much as it was these people. They went out and they wanted to be part of society and wanted the rest of that town to know that, 'Look, you fellows may be doing this for