Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Members' Statements; Statements by Ministers — 2 December 2004 (45th General Assembly, 1st Session, Vol. XLV No. 51)
2004-12-02
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
December 2, 2004 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 51
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!
Admit strangers.
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we have Members' Statements as follows: the
hon. the Member for the District of Trinity North; the hon. the Member for the
District of Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune; the hon. the Member for the District of
St. John's West; the hon. the Member for the District of Twillingate &
Fogo; the hon. the Member for the District of St. John's North; and the hon.
the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
The hon. the Member for the District of Trinity North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate the Neighbourhood of Friends
Advisory Board for hosting an Open House to celebrate the establishment of a
Family Literacy Centre for Clarenville and the surrounding area.
Mr. Speaker, over the past year, this group, in partnership with the Rural
Secretariat, Human Resources Skills Development Canada and a local advisory
board, have been developing a new Family Literacy Centre located on Moores Road
in Clarenville.
Outreach from this main site will also be carried out with the assistance of
local parent support groups that have been established in the communities of
Little Heart's Ease, Swift Current and Hickman's Harbour.
Mr. Speaker, the mandate of this Centre is to assist children and their
families of the region in the areas of early childhood development and family
literacy. Through the co-operation of a number of community partners, the
capacity is established for the community to now deal more effectively and more
efficiently with issues relating to low literacy and unemployment by working
directly with those who are most impacted by those barriers.
Mr. Speaker, this project demonstrates the value of forming community
partnerships and the results of dedicated volunteers coming together. Mr.
Speaker, ensuring our citizens have appropriate access to literacy programs is
an important component of any sound social and economic agenda.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members of this House to join with me today in
congratulating the Neighbourhood of Friends Advisory Board and all of its
partners in the establishment of the Family Literacy Centre. This Centre will
play a very positive role in the community of Clarenville and the surrounding
area.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's West.
MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am very pleased to have the opportunity today to bring greetings to a
gentleman who will celebrate his ninety-fourth birthday on Sunday, December 5.
Up until a couple of years ago, Jim Ridgley was a very active member of the
community, giving freely of his time to the St. Vincent de Paul Society, the BIS,
and his parish church at St. Theresa's Actually, his volunteerism was publicly
recognized when he was awarded the Queen's Jubilee Medal.
Jim is now a resident at Glenbrook Lodge and is still on the go, taking real
joy in a party, especially if there is an opportunity for him to get up and
dance, and I guess he will have that opportunity on Sunday when he celebrates
his party there.
He has five children, fifteen grandchildren, and fifteen great-grandchildren,
and on behalf of everyone it is with great pleasure and pride that I wish a very
happy ninety-fourth birthday to my father, Jim Ridgley.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate& Fogo.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize a family physician from my district
who has been recently distinguished by his peers for years of quality service.
Dr. Mohammed Ravalia, affectionately known in the area as Ravs, has received
the distinction of "Family Physician of the Year" by the College of
Family Physicians of Canada.
Mr. Speaker, this is no small accomplishment, and the people of Twillingate
& Fogo District are extremely happy that Dr. Ravalia has been honoured in
this way.
Dr. Ravalia arrived in Twillingate in the mid-1980s to escape the
uncertainties in his native Zimbabwe. He met and married a young lady from
Lewisporte and the rest, as they say, Mr. Speaker, is history.
Mr. Speaker, all of Dr. Ravalia's patients see first-hand what a caring
physician this man is, and that he is certainly very deserving of this honour.
Mr. Speaker, I consider Dr. Ravalia to be a great individual, a wonderful
doctor, and a valued friend. I ask all members of this House to join me in
extending to Dr. Ravalia congratulations on this most recent distinction.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.
MR. RIDGLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to commend a group of students at Prince of Wales Collegiate
who, with the co-ordinating effort of one of their teachers, Timothy Harpur,
recently undertook to gather food for the Salvation Army Food Bank. This one-day
blitz took place in early November and was also supported by parents and members
of the Rotary Club who drove the students all over St. John's to collect the
food items. Mention should also be made, Mr. Speaker, of those teachers who had
done some classroom activities designed to teach the students the need to make a
contribution to the community and to help those less fortunate.
This is the twenty-first year that such a food drive has taken place at PWC,
and it is estimated that the approximately one hundred students who took part
this year succeeded in putting the total value of food collected in those
twenty-one years over the $1 million mark. Mr. Speaker, a special note of
appreciation must go to Bernice Langdon, a former guidance counselor at PWC, who
retired two years ago but who co-ordinated this food drive for some fifteen
years.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of the House to join me in congratulating all
teachers, volunteers, students and members of Rotary who have played a
part in
this magnificent effort this year and in the twenty years previous.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Fortune Bay-Cape la
Hune.
MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to honour two very community-minded individuals who
recently celebrated their retirement.
On October 2, members of the Bay d'Espoir Emergency Health Organization
gathered at St. Alban's Inn to thank them and wish good luck to two people who
have given generously of their time and energy over the past thirty years to
help make the community a little safer.
Brendan Collier began as a driver with the Bay d'Espoir ambulance in 1974.
Over the past thirty years, Mr. Collier became well-know throughout the area for
his dedication and compassionate nature as he helped those who required his
services. Mr. Collier also acquired his instructor's licence and dedicated
many hours to offering first aid courses to other employees as well as various
groups in the area.
Mr. Gerald Cox was also recognized at this gathering. Mr. Cox was a volunteer
member of the Bay d'Espoir Emergency Health Board for over thirty years. His
many years of volunteer service to the Bay d'Espoir area are exemplary, and
all from the area are truly thankful for his service.
Mr. Speaker, community service like that of Mr. Collier and Mr. Cox are
invaluable to the community, and I ask all members of this hon. House to join me
in congratulating them on the conclusion of their successful careers and in
wishing them the best in all their future activities.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to recognize and celebrate the selection on Monday of this week
of Tommy C. Douglas as the popular choice for The Greatest Canadian.
The CBC television series championed the lives and contributions of many
great leaders of Canada, including Prime Ministers, scientists and sports heros,
and did so using advocates - including our own Mary Walsh and Rex Murphy -
extolling the virtues of their choice.
Over 1 million Canadians participated by voting for their choice, and the
winner - and in the lead from the beginning - was Tommy Douglas, five-term
Premier of Saskatchewan and the first national Leader of the New Democratic
Party.
For more than fifty years his staunch devotion to social causes, rousing
powers of speech and pugnacious charm made him an unstoppable political force.
Tommy Douglas was a master orator who could sway a crowd with his keen sense of
humour and absolute passion, and used his skill to further equality and
compassion for humanity.
In his youth, he was a amateur actor, boxer and apprentice printer before he
found his first calling as a Baptist minister preaching the "social
gospel" of religion-in-action, before entering politics in 1935.
His vision, "to ensure that medical care was available to every man,
woman and child regardless of race, colour, or creed or the size of their
wallet", is taken for granted today, but was a radical idea when it was
introduced by Tommy Douglas in the Saskatchewan of the fifties - and earned him
the title of "Father of Medicare".
Tommy Douglas's legacy as a social policy innovator lives on. Social
welfare, universal Medicare, old age pensions and mothers' allowances -
Douglas helped keep these ideas, and many more, in the forefront, watching as
more established political parties eventually came to accept these once radical
ideas as their own.
Tommy's words of inspiration - "Courage my friends... It's not too
late to build a better world." - still ring true toady and offer us hope
and guidance for the future.
I ask all hon. members to join with me in celebrating the selection of Tommy
C. Douglas as "The Greatest Canadian."
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity today to update hon.
members on the "New Deal for Communities" which has been proposed by
the federal government. Up until recently, provincial governments did not have
much information on this new initiative, but I am pleased to say this has
changed.
In mid-November, I attended a meeting in Toronto with my provincial and
territorial counterparts at which the hon. John Godfrey provided us with our
first official briefing on the new deal. Mr. Godfrey's comments were very
encouraging. Funding for the new deal will start this fiscal year 2005-2006,
with a total federal commitment over five years of $5 billion. Funding will
progressively be increased to an annual expenditure of $2 billion per annum by
the fifth year.
Mr. Speaker, this new deal is still very much in the early stages. Mr.
Godfrey informed us that bilateral agreements will be negotiated. However, he
was unable to provide us with draft templates to review. Also, no final decision
has been made yet on how funding will be allocated among the provinces and
territories. I can assure hon. members that I will be pushing hard for a fair
and equitable funding allocation for Newfoundland and Labrador.
The new deal will be an infrastructure program and not simply a new source of
revenue which provinces or municipalities can use at their own discretion.
Funding will be targeted toward sustainable infrastructure projects in
communities of all sizes.
In addition, I was very pleased that Mr. Godfrey supported the principles
which the provinces and territories proposed to guide federal and
provincial-territorial negotiations. In essence, we proposed that the federal
government has to recognize provincial and territorial jurisdiction over
municipal matters and our legislative authority in this realm.
Mr. Speaker, as you can see there is still a great deal of work which needs
to be done in order for our municipalities to get the best possible deal from
the federal government. I have written to Mr. Godfrey expressing my high
satisfaction with this meeting and requesting that we get started right away on
formalizing some of these details in bilateral negotiations.
I will also be meeting with the Newfoundland and Labrador Federation of
Municipalities to discuss how this Province will allocate the federal funding
among municipalities.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I want to thank the minister for a copy of the statement before coming to the
House. As he said, they have had discussions with Mr. Godfrey on a new deal for
municipalities. However, I find that, as the minister has said in his statement,
there is not a lot to be able to comment on. Although he says that the program
will start in 2005, it will wrap up to about $2 billion per year by the year of
the agreement, which is probably the year 2011.
In the third paragraph it says, it "is still very much in the early
stages." The minister was unable to provide us a template of what to
review. No decision has been made on how funding will be allocated among the
provinces and territories and that decisions for the funding will be targeted
towards sustainable infrastructure projects in communities of all sizes. That is
encouraging but, yet, we have to depend on what sustainable is.
One of the things though the minister said that Mr. Godfrey supported, the
principle on that was to not bypass the provinces because that has always been a
concern where the federal government would deal directly with cities -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has expired.
Does the member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. LANGDON: - and bypass the provinces to recognize that, that is very
important because the Province has to have a say in all those infrastructure
things that are going to be done.
As the minister already said, I think in the last paragraph, there is still
much work to be done but we look forward to a successful conclusion to a program
so that we can find many more projects that can go into the Province, especially
in the rural parts, to have good sustainable projects that the communities can
take advantage of in water and sewer and other things as well.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I, for one, was pleased when the federal government's so-called agenda for
cities became an agenda or a deal for communities broadening the scope of the
program to include all municipalities and communities in Canada, not just the
big cities that are driving the initial agenda.
I look forward to this government playing an active role in helping to
determine the kind of principles that will be involved in allowing this Province
to take full advantage of the new money that is apparently going to be available
to support the work of municipalities in our country.
So, I do hope that the minister is able to have some influence on that
program and not just us be the -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has expired.
MR. HARRIS: By leave, Mr. Speaker, to finish my sentence.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.
MR. HARRIS: - not just sit around and wait until the federal government
makes an announcement and complain about the fact that it does not work for us.
So we should be in there with some say at the beginning and try to influence the
course of events.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers.
Oral Questions.
MR. SULLIVAN: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Reverting to Statements by Ministers.
The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SULLIVAN: They seem to be enjoying it, Mr. Speaker, so I will
continue.
I rise today to inform hon. colleagues that tomorrow, December 3, is the
United Nations International Day of Disabled Persons. Started in 1982, the
purpose of this day is to promote an understanding of disability issues and
mobilize support for the dignity, rights and well-being of persons with
disabilities.
The theme for this year is: Nothing About Us Without Us. We must focus on the
need for persons with disabilities to be actively involved in the planning and
implementation of strategies which affect their lives. This theme also reflects
on the importance of persons with disabilities participating as full citizens,
living as independently as possible within our communities. In our Province,
groups and organizations such as the Independent Living Resource Centre, provide
many worthwhile supports and programs to persons with disabilities, and
government is proud to assist in funding the important work they do.
Representatives from the centre are here in the gallery this afternoon.
Mr. Speaker, within the provincial government, we are committed to ensuring
that persons with disabilities have equitable access to employment opportunities
within the public service. Treasury Board Secretariate is responsible for the
government-wide Opening Doors Program. This is an employment equity initiative
created to build a representative public service. Since it inception, the
program has provided several hundred people with disabilities the opportunity to
build successful careers in the provincial public service. These careers cover a
wide range of occupational areas including social work, information technology,
education, communications, human resources, and environment.
In addition to its role with the provincial government, Opening Doors works
closely with the federal government. The program acts as a single hiring agency
for both levels of government for persons with disabilities. This arrangement is
unique in Canada and makes it easier for individuals with disabilities in
Newfoundland and Labrador to seek and secure employment in either level of
government.
The Opening Doors Program is under the leadership of Mr. Jim McDonald. I want
to inform hon. members that Jim was a recent recipient of a Public Service Award
of Excellence.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: He has worked with the provincial government for over
twenty-five years, and the award is a testament to his unwavering commitment and
dedication to ensuring that persons with disabilities have a strong advocate
within government and that the program evolves to continually meet their needs.
I want to acknowledge Jim joining us in the gallery today.
Mr. Speaker, to help mark the International Day of Persons with Disabilities,
hon. members will receive a copy of the latest edition of the Opening Doors To
Success magazine. The purpose of this publication is to showcase public service
employees with disabilities who began their careers in the public service
through the Opening Doors Program. Along with celebrating the varied careers and
the many successes of this unique public sector employment equity program, the
publication also serves as an educational tool for departmental managers, and
persons with disabilities alike, and promotes the employment of persons with
disabilities in the provincial Public Service. I encourage all hon. members to
review Opening Doors to Success, and read first-hand the achievements that
individuals with disabilities are making within the provincial government.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
This is a ministerial statement that I am pleased to support, and this side
of the House is pleased to support it as well.
Tomorrow, being December 3, is the United Nations International Day of
Disabled Persons but I believe every day is a day for disabled persons in our
Province and in our world. The theme: Nothing About Us Without Us, talks about
people being integrated into the community. Well, I think one of the happiest
moments that I have experienced since I have been a member in this House, which
is almost nine years now, was April of 1998, that was the day when legislation
was passed in this House for disabled persons to be able to be involved in the
disabled hunting program. I think that was a major step for this Province to
take and I think it was one of the most gratifying pieces of legislation that
came to this House.
Regarding the Opening Doors Program, I know that program very well, as I am
the former President of Treasury Board. I, too, would like to stand and
congratulate Mr. Jim McDonald. I know him personally and I know the fine work
that he does, and I know the benefits of the Opening Doors Program. A lot of
people have gotten their first jobs, disabled persons, by going through that
program and are still working today.
There are a couple of things that I think we can probably pay attention to
policy here in this Province of grandfathering in existing business, I think the
is something that can be brought in gradually but this needs to be done. Then
again, there is more respect for disabled parking, that is another area.
I would like to say to the provincial government, the former Administration
always seen a need to increase funding to the Opening Doors Program and I hope
they will as well in their upcoming budget.
Thank you very much.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for an advanced copy of his statement, a statement that
is a very important one indeed.
I think the fact sheets, Mr. Speaker, demonstrates clearly how far we have to
go in helping people with disabilities to help themselves. For example, on the
fact sheet I have outside it states that 12.4 per cent of the Canadian
population has a form of disability and of that 12.4 per cent with disabilities,
Mr. Speaker, they are 41 per cent of the consumers using food banks. I think
that says a lot about the plight of persons with disabilities in our Province
and in our country. I think it clearly demonstrates a need with Newfoundland and
Labrador Housing to make buildings more accessible. I know a case where people
applied to get into Newfoundland and Labrador Housing but they could not be
accommodated because of their disabilities.
I served as a member of the Labrador West Employment Corporation and we had
some success in getting persons with disabilities employed in the private
sector. That went over big, Mr. Speaker, and the group is continuing to work
well today.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's allotted time has expired.
MR. COLLINS: By leave?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.
MR. COLLINS: Also, Mr. Speaker, I will challenge people to get in a
wheelchair for a day and go around their communities and see how many places
they are actually barred from getting into. I think then you would come across
and find the real challenges that are presented to persons with disabilities.
I say to the Minister of Transportation and Works: One example in his
department is the Sir Robert Bond , where the cafeteria is downstairs and
it is a very steep incline. A person with disabilities cannot access the
cafeteria on that boat.
Mr. Speaker, I will clue up by saying the other thing that has been talked
about recently in this sitting is the fact that gas stations are going
completely self-serve and persons with disabilities are going to have great
difficulty while they are operating their vehicles to refuel. I think, Mr.
Speaker, there is a lot of work to be done in this area. I hope to encourage
this government to take as many proactive steps as they can in that direction.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and
Aboriginal Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure today to extend an invitation to all hon.
members, the general public and the media, to attend the annual Christmas Lights
Across Canada Ceremony this evening. It will take place in the main lobby of the
East Block of Confederation Building at 6:15 p.m.
This occasion marks the eighteenth year that the Province is taking
part in
Christmas Lights Across Canada. It is an event held in capitals across the
nation, illuminating the country from the east to the west coast with hundreds
of thousands of colorful lights, symbolically linking all Canadians at this time
of year.
Mr. Speaker, this year's display includes approximately 60,000 lights and
six billboards depicting Christmas scenes along the Prince Philip Parkway and
including Memorial University. Tonight, we will be lighting thirteen trees with
white lights, as a symbol of our country's thirteen provinces and territories.
We will also be lighting a tree containing multicolour lights which symbolizes
the diversity of our nation.
I am also pleased to inform this hon. House that well-known traditional
singer and leading figure in the revival of Newfoundland traditional culture,
Anita Best, will serve as our chairperson again this year. She was a founding
member of the much beloved Figgy Duff and is very active in the broader
community of arts, culture and heritage. She is currently a Cultural Policy
Development Officer with the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.
Entertainment will be provided by St. Theresa's School Choir along with the
Salvation Army, St. John's Citadel Band.
Mr. Speaker, I encourage all to attend this evening's events as we
celebrate the beginning of the holiday season and, hopefully, mother nature will
co-operate and the weather will improve as the evening progresses.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.
MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for a copy of his statement and for the invitation.
Mr. Speaker, this morning at 7 o'clock as the Air Labrador flight I was on
barreled down the runway for takeoff, dawn was breaking in Labrador and the snow
was falling. I arrived in St. John's to gale-force winds, fog and rain. Had I
known, I would have taken a cooler of snow and, prior to the performance
tonight, I would have gone up one story, opened the window and, as the ceremony
began, I would sprinkle Labrador snow on the minister.
Again, it is a time when Christmas tree lightings are common all across
Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker. I thank the minister for the invitation.
I am sure that many of us on this side will join him in his celebration tonight.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am delighted that this government is continuing the tradition of having the
Christmas lights lit up. I know when they were in Opposition, the Member for
Municipal Affairs used to complain about the cost of electricity, the number of
lights and all that. He said it was like a runway. I guess, Mr. Speaker, that
the Grinch hasn't completely taken over the financing of the opposite members.
I am glad to hear that, despite the Auditor General's comments yesterday, we
are not going to close down expenses to the point that we cannot enjoy a little
bit of Christmas cheer. I imagine the wattage might be down a little bit this
year, but at least we will have some lights and be able to celebrate the
Christmas season and I hope people get a chance to join us.
MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers.
Oral Questions.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, over the past several months we have witnessed a drastic
increase in drug use in related crimes in the Province, particularly here in the
metropolitan St. John's area. Abuse of drugs such as OxyContin have become a
real epidemic, and are being blamed for the dramatic increase in armed robberies
and theft in this area and in the Province. We have heard stories from those
with drug addiction problems who need help in getting treatment to end their
addiction, but cannot get government help to aid in this process.
I ask the Minister of Health and Community Services, Mr. Speaker: How many
new addictions counselors have been hired, and what actions has government taken
as result of the OxyContin Task Force Report, to ensure that addiction services
are readily available in Newfoundland and Labrador?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I cannot give him specifics on the number as a result of OxyContin. I am sure
the figures might be provided later, from the department, but I can tell him
of the problems encountered from a legal perspective, too, but also in dealing
with it. Another one, methadone, is a prescription, and we have seen that
Recently, where there is only one doctor in this Province, we are very
cognizant of that. The advisory committee, for instance, dealing with methadone,
in that aspect has been working to help identify a doctor in this area who can
help deal with that. There has been increased emphasis put on addiction
counselling in general, Mr. Speaker. There is about $4 million annually spent on
addiction counselors here in our Province in the Budget.
Dealing with other types of addictions - I have mentioned here in this House
earlier - 1 per cent of proceeds from VLTs are used, put in by the businesses.
Government had committed 150, and the Premier indicated another $100,000 there.
While we are working to increase the number and deal with the very serious
concerns there, the department is very much aware and we are doing what we can
within the fiscal ability of our government to give the increased awareness that
it needs, and the remedies to try to resolve it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader fo the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we have heard complaints of those with substance abuse problems,
and advocates such as Chaplain Mr. Ron Fitzpatrick, regarding access to
methadone treatments in the Province. It is estimated that upwards of 90 per
cent of addicts who require methadone treatments live in the immediate St. John's
area, yet there is no treatment facility on the East Coast; nor is government
willing to provide any significant financial support for those people to travel
to the only provincial treatment center in Grand Falls-Windsor.
Again, I ask the minister: When will government start listening to these
people, take some definitive action, as was recommended in the OxyContin Task
Force, and either establish a second treatment centre in the Province that will
serve this immediate area, or provide the necessary financial assistance so that
the people who need the service can get to the only available service now in
Grand Falls-Windsor.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
There are only four physicians in the Province who have been licensed and
able to provide it. One of them, of course, is in Central Newfoundland, the
Grand Falls-Windsor area. There are three others not there.
It is a personal choice of a physician if they want to carry out that
specific practice. That is not something you can force a physician to do. It is
an independent professional choice of that physician.
The committee and the department are working very closely to try to identify
somebody in the specific area where the incident rate is higher, to be able to
deal with that. That is something that is ongoing. Hopefully, I say to the
Leader of the Opposition, that can be resolved certainly sooner rather than
later.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, it seems clear that more people are turning to criminal
activities in an effort to support their addictions. One of the recommendations,
again, of the OxyContin Task Force, was to establish a methadone treatment
program for correctional facilities, to help inmates, themselves, deal with
their addiction so they do not reoffend after serving their prison term. We have
recently heard stories that inmates are not getting any new treatments; nor are
they getting their regularly prescribed drugs while incarcerated.
I ask the Minister of Justice, Mr. Speaker: When can inmates expect these new
and recommended drug treatment programs, programs that will hopefully end the
cycle of reoffending once a prison term has been served?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, the story that the hon. member was
referring to dealt with an inmate of Her Majesty's Penitentiary who is dealing
with a psychiatrist, who is dealing with a medical officer. This is a medical
issue and, of course, the member would not expect me, as the Minister of
Justice, to interfere with a professional doctor, a professional psychiatrist,
in determining what is right for his patient.
With respect to the methadone program in our prisons, the department has not
made a decision on that. These matters are quite complex. I know that methadone
treatments are available in some prisons in other parts of the country, but at
this stage, while this might be a useful alternative, it is a complex issue. The
department is continuing to study this, and a decision will be made in due
course.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
One final supplementary. Recommendation 45 of the Oxycontin Task Force
recommended that legislative amendments to the Medical Act be prepared for this
session of the House of Assembly to address some of the current issues
surrounding drug addition in the Province. In fact, the task force, Mr. Speaker,
said, and I quote: It is extremely important that these timelines be met to
protect individual and public safety.
Again, I ask the minister responsible for drafting of the legislation: In the
interest of public safety, will government be bringing these legislative
changes, as recommended, to the House of Assembly before this session ends at
Christmastime?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, the matter to which the hon. Leader of the
Opposition refers is a matter that comes under the review of the Department of
Health. Officials in Justice have been engaged with the Department of Health in
reviewing these matters and reviewing the relevant legislation. Legal advise has
been provided to enable the minister to come forward with the legislative
changes at the appropriate time.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yesterday I asked a question about the comprehensiveness of the Occupational
Health and Safety assessment which was done on the Harbour Breton plant. I want
to ask the Minister of Government Services, now that she has had a day to check:
Can she confirm that the only structural engineer present during the assessment
was the one hired by FPI to make the initial inspection, and will she now commit
to a comprehensive independent study of the Harbour Breton plant so that an
accurate assessment of the state of the plant and the cost of the necessary
repairs can be done?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, our Occupational Health and Safety officials went
to the plant in Harbour Breton after reviewing the report of the external
consultant, the outside report, and their findings were consistent.
My hon. colleague asked about the engineer. He had input into that report,
had consultation, and all of the findings do bear out what the external
consultant said.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LANGDON: Mr. Speaker, I know that the structural engineer who went to
Harbour Breton did not go into the plant. He left the hotel in the morning and
came back here because of a personal commitment that he had, and I would have
done no different. All I am asking you is: If he didn't go to the plant, how
could he have had a hand in making the assessment to determine if the original
inspection had been done, to verify what FPI had already said?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, our engineer has evaluated the report. The
findings are consistent with the external report. The only time that we would
call in a structural engineer is if it was an inconsistent finding with the
external report. The findings are consistent with the outside report, and he did
have input. I am quite satisfied that he has done due diligence with regard to
this inspection.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I will deal with that question another time.
My second question is for the Premier. We have been asking questions and
advocating that the FPI quota remain in Harbour Breton. This morning, on an Open
Line radio show, I was very pleased when I heard the Premier indicate that he
supported the concept of community quota as a way of helping Harbour Breton.
I want to ask the Premier: Will he recommend to the federal government that
the quota traditionally processed in Harbour Breton by FPI remains in Harbour
Breton under a new operator?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, what I can indicate to the member is that we are doing
everything possible in co-operation with yourself, with the minister. I have met
with the company as recently as last Monday, together with the union and with
the community groups. What we want to do is explore all options and try and find
out what the best solution is for the community in your district. Our goal here,
our common goal, all of us, is to protect the people of Harbour Breton.
When we go through that entire process, there will be certain solutions that
will appear to be the best and the most favourable. Those are the ones we will
choose, but I think we have to explore it. I know as a result of the discussions
just the other day between the union and the company, certain options were
explored, were discussed.
If the quotas happen to be the right option, and that would be the favoured
option, we would support it. We will support whatever is the best choice for the
people of Harbour Breton at the end of the day.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: We want to make sure we go through the process. There
may be variations on that, that might work; but, of course, we are faced now
with a situation, a very difficult situation. We have things that are out of our
control. The Canadian dollar is completely and totally out of our control. We
have cheap labour competition coming from China.
MR. GRIMES: (Inaudible).
PREMIER WILLIAMS: If the Leader of the Opposition would just allow me to
finish the answer.
As well, you have a question of product here, and the question of the
structure -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
A very serious question has been asked, and the Premier is attempting to give
the answer. I ask the Premier to conclude his comments very shortly.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As the member knows, it is a very, very complex problem and there are no easy
solutions, but we, as a government, are committed and determined to protect the
people of Harbour Breton and find a solution for the people in the community.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, the crisis in Lawn indicates similar problems
which exist in many other communities around the Province. My questions are for
the Minister of Government Services, pertaining to the general policies of her
department when it comes to water testing in the Province.
Can the Minister of Government Services inform the House how many communities
in the Province that are currently under boil water advisories have potential E.
coli bacteria? Minister, do you know the answer?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague for his
question.
We are very concerned about the water quality in this Province. With the
heightened Walkerton incident a few years back - and my hon. colleague knows
this, being a minister at the time - we did put in twelve EHOs in the government
to sample the water.
I would like to also say that all untreated water, we advise people to boil.
The E. coli in Lawn is 2 per cent. It is a norm for untreated water. I think my
hon. colleague in the House, yesterday, offered a solution to the people of
Lawn, and the ball is in the court with the Minister of Municipal Affairs and
the Town Council of Lawn to correct that situation for the residents in Lawn.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour
Grace.
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, it is obvious that the minister does not know,
and when I was minister I could have answered the question because I can answer
the question now. There are over twenty communities in this Province - from the
information on the government Web site - that may have E. coli bacteria in this
Province. There are presently almost 300 boil water advisories in the Province,
and government refuses to test them for E. coli and other threats.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace, and
asks him to complete his question.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, I can assure you, the people of Newfoundland
and Labrador do not find any humour in E. coli in their water, I will tell you
that.
I ask the minister: Will she begin testing all water supplies in the Province
today, to ensure others are not being exposed to this deadly bacteria, Minister?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, as previously indicated, sampling is not done on
untreated water, because the hon. member knows over there that the fluctuation
from hour to hour, day to day, varies, and we suggest and we emphasize that we
should boil all untreated water. That is the norm, when it is not a treatable
system.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, obviously the minister is not going to do
anything about it. Another fluff answer to the people of this Province.
Mr. Speaker, I asked the minister yesterday about the environmental health
officers, the people who check the water in our Province. We know that some of
these positions are currently vacant in the Province. Can she tell us why they
are vacant and if she plans to recruit more water inspectors to test all water
supplies to ensure deadly E. coli bacteria is not a health risk for the people
of this Province?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, we do have a vacancy for an EHO. We have
increased our staff by twelve new positions for a complement of thirty-four.
Those positions are highly technical certification, and very hard to recruit.
Actually, across the country there is difficulty in recruiting these type of
positions, but we are actively recruiting an applicant for the vacancy.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quid Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Premier, Mr. Speaker.
Yesterday, the C-NOPB lifted the suspension order for the operation of the
Terra Nova offshore oil facility based on a plan submitted to them by Petro
Canada to prevent further oil spills. What is disturbing about this is that both
the cause of the largest oil spill on our offshore, and the cure that has been
proposed by Petro Canada for the largest oil spill which went on for five hours
before being detected, are being held in secrecy by the C-NOPB.
I want to ask the Premier: Why is the public of Newfoundland and Labrador
kept in the dark about this very significant matter affecting the offshore
operations in Newfoundland and Labrador?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
First of all, if we are going to talk about this issue - and in a public way
we need to, to instill that there is confidence in the regulator, confidence in
that when a situation like this occurs that we can deal with it effectively on
behalf of the people of the Province - in order to do so, though, we need to
deal with the facts, and the facts have not been determined that there was a
spill ongoing for five hours, I say to the hon. member.
MR. HARRIS: (Inaudible).
MR. E. BYRNE: One second now.
I say to the hon. member that the investigation is not complete. It is not
conclusive in terms of exactly how long the spill was occurring or how much was
occurring early and how much occurred late. So, I think it is important and
incumbent on all of us in understanding this process, Mr. Speaker, that when the
investigation is ultimately done, it is then given the written investigative
report according to law and according to the regulations, which the member is
aware of, is then put in a federal prosecutors hands for his or her judgement
on: Should there be criminal actions laid? So, until such time that that brief
is done, that investigative report is given to the federal prosecutor and a
decision is made, I think it is incumbent upon all of us to ensure that we not
get out in front of this to start making accusations that may not be in fact
true.
Secondly, Mr. Speaker - and I know it is a little long winded but it is an
important answer. With respect to the secrecy of the C-NOPB, I completely
disagree. The C-NOPB is a regulator that is enacted by laws and regulations and
legislation passed in this House and in Parliament and the member either knows
or ought to know that according to
section 119 the C-NOPB board is very
prescriptive in what it can release. I can say, Mr. Speaker, with absolute
confidence that the board acted in the interest of the people of the Province
and I believe that they did so in a timely manner.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It was Petro Canada who said that it went on for five hours before it was
detected. Mr. Speaker, I can understand the issue with respect to possible
prosecution but how do we know it is fixed? That is the point I am asking here
today. They were operating under the authority of the C-NOPB when it happened in
the first place. They are now saying it is fixed but how do we know it is fixed,
Mr. Speaker? Why can't they tell us what they have done to fix the problem so
that we can have some confidence that they are actually doing their job?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
For clarity and understanding I think it is important to know this: The chief
conservation officer, who works out of the board office, you can compare that
person to the Auditor General of the Province. That person makes an independent
decision; is independent of the board members; is independent of the process; is
independent of the federal government; is independent of the provincial
government, and it is there for a reason. Because that individual is enshrined
and ensconced with the absolute responsibility to protect the public.
When the chief conservation officer issued the order to suspend production,
he did so in a timely manner. They would not be issued - the suspension would
not be lifted if the chief conservation officer did not feel ultimately, I
guess, that the corrections that were needed to be made, were made. We have
confidence in the system. I have been briefed as the provincial minister. I have
confidence in the decision that he made, and when the investigation is complete
and when the federal prosecutor sees it, Mr. Speaker, we all be able to know
exactly what happened (inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, time in your
allocation for one brief question.
MR. HARRIS: Briefly said, Mr. Speaker.
The Auditor General, when he makes recommendations, does not make them in
secret and why does the Chief Conservation Officer of the C-NOPB do so?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is a lawyer. He understands, I am sure he does
and, if not, I think he should, that until the investigation is complete, any
information that could be released could jeopardize the investigation itself. We
do not know what will come out of this investigation. There could be criminal
charges laid. The fact of the matter is that the chief conservation officer made
a decision. I was briefed on behalf of the government, or for the government. I
am confident in the decision that he made. I am confident in the board that they
stop production until all issues are related to the FPSO are dealt with, and I
believe the public should have the same level of confidence as well, Mr.
Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Before I get to my question, I followed a precedent with that yesterday and I
take the opportunity to welcome my colleague, the Member for Parliament for
Labrador, to our Chambers today and to say it is a pleasure to have him here.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Health
and Community Services.
Social workers hired in the past year to deal with a large number of
assessments of child abuse cases are now being let go even though there are
still more than one hundred cases in the system on backlog. The professional
Association of Social Workers have indicated that money will run out for these
jobs but the minister has more money in his department now than when he
originally made the decision to hire these people less than a year ago. How does
the minister justify terminating the employment of these social workers and how
does he plan to respond to the growing needs of child abuse cases in the
Province today?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Whenever there are any pressures on any area in the system, the department
tries to move forward and hire extra people to deal with these. When we get back
to regular levels - there are numerous pressures in the system not only in this
area, which is very important, but in numerous other areas in the system and you
have to use resources within your means to deal with every single pressing need
within the Department of Health, generally, not only in these cases. There are
other many pressing cases, too. We have to manage our resources. Your
government, when they were there, put us a billion dollars a year in the hole.
We have to deal with that problem as well as try to provide important services
to the people of our Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: It is always about money over people whenever you ask a
question in health care here.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, young children in this Province are on the waiting
list for up to two years for diagnostic services. Three-and-a-half year old
Mitchell Bishop of Paradise, his parents were absolutely shocked when they
learned their child would have to wait eighteen to twenty-four months to have an
MRI done.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
These are young children who are growing and their health concerns require
immediate attention. The minister has refused to lay out the priorities for new
health care investments from the federal government transferred to this
Province.
Mr. Speaker, I will ask the minister directly: Will he act immediately to
assign any of this new money to reduce the wait list for children who require
these tests, such as MRI, for they cannot wait for this government to sort out
the paper trail on this federal transfer dollars?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We are going to use the available extra resources we have to address many
pressing concerns in health care. There are numerous priorities identified. In
fact, this year, I might add, we have gone on to address almost 28 million more
concerns that were budgeted with the health boards out there this year, in spite
of not having money available at that time. We are concerned.
We do know that the MRI in Corner Brook will help reduce the per capita
amount access by 50 per cent. In fact, with CT scans, that has doubled the
national average in excess to these. So, we are working in areas in diagnostic
equipment. MRI is going to be involved and hopefully it will cut it in half, the
waiting list, with two machines in our Province. We are working to address that.
These are very pressing concerns and we are going to live up to the commitments
that the Premier gave on dealing with health care plans for the future. When we
get the money, which we do not yet have - there must be legislation drafted and
passed in the Parliament of Canada before we can access this money - we will
spend it prudently. We will address the number one priority of people in our
Province (inaudible).
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, the speech by the Minister of Finance and the
Minister of Health on these new health dollars is wearing a little thin, I can
tell you that.
Mr. Speaker, recently we have had reports that there are problems related to
the safety of children in secure custody care at the Janeway hospital. These
matters were raised with the minister, so can he tell me today what action has
been taken to ensure that these kind of serious incidents do not happen again at
the Janeway?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
There are always incidents where things happen in the system. We are all
human, but I can tell you that we have very competent professionals working
there, who are going to make every effort to make sure that every single case is
dealt with appropriately and professionally, and that anything of that nature
does not happen a second time in our system.
We cannot guarantee it. Those people are professionals; they are human. We
are dealing to cope with the situation there. We did move and address it when it
was raised to the attention of the officials in the department, and we will
continue to do that.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, the number of accidents and incidents involving
tractor trailers continue to pile up. Recently, there was another incident that
occurred just outside of Clarenville.
Can the Minister of Government Services tell the House today why her
department cut inspection services and weigh scales in the Budget when she knew
there would be problems on our highways?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, that was a Budget decision, to close the weigh
scales. We have indeed seen no evidence by closing those weigh scales with
regard to accidents. They are constantly doing their inspections, and our
portable weigh scales people are out in force. We will continue to uphold
highway safety in our Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace, on a very
short supplementary.
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, it is unbelievable - there is no evidence of
any incidents. Every day there is some incident in the Province.
Mr. Speaker, until the minister acknowledges there are problems, the
accidents will continue. We had reports recently (inaudible) -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I inform the member there is time for a very brief question. I ask him to get
to the question immediately.
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, we have reports recently about leaking trucks
carrying contaminated soil from Gander across the Island. Why is it that
officials of Marine Atlantic and the Nova Scotia Government are able to do
proper monitoring, but her own department has missed at least four cases? Who is
protecting our people, and who is protecting our environment in this Province,
Minister?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The time for Oral Questions has expired.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair wishes to address a matter that came up yesterday and happened
again today. Members know that when we are in Oral Questions, or other times in
the House, members should not be welcoming people to the gallery, or commenting
on it. It happened yesterday and I spoke to both members involved.
I am always pleased, as the Chair of this House, to welcome all hon. members
to the House. I received three notes from members today welcoming the MP for
Labrador into the gallery.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: I want to acknowledge that we are always pleased to have the
MP with us, and any member of the federal Parliament coming to visit. Formally,
I would welcome you here to our House. We am happy to see you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees.
Notices of Motions.
Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.
Petitions.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition on behalf of a number of residents of
Labrador West concerning subsidies for medical transportation, particularly
pertaining to airfares.
Mr. Speaker, people in my district find it -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I say, this petition is in regard to concerns raised by residents of
Labrador West when it comes to the cost that they have to pay to obtain quality
medical services that other people in Labrador do not have incur, Mr. Speaker.
It is directly in relationship to people who are referred to the hospital in
Happy Valley-Goose Bay by their physician for treatments that are not available
locally.
Mr. Speaker, all other residents of Labrador can go to St. Anthony or Happy
Valley-Goose Bay for the cost of $40 return, while residents of my district, Mr.
Speaker, have to pay upwards of nearly $500. That is grossly unfair to people
who live in Labrador West. This has been ongoing, Mr. Speaker, for far too long.
As we speak, each and every day there are people who have to incur that debt in
order to get medical services that are not available in our area. They asked the
question, Mr. Speaker, they asked the question, why? Why should they be the only
people in Labrador who are not entitled to this subsidy?
I know that the Premier, when he talked in the meetings in Ottawa at the
First Ministers' Conference on health care, he raised the question of Labrador
travel. I was very happy to hear him raise that, Mr. Speaker, because there is a
need for such a subsidy, but I do not believe that while this government is
trying to figure out how that money is going to be spent, I do not believe it is
necessary for people in Labrador West to continue to have to pay these high
airfares when other residents of Labrador do not have to incur them.
I am not suggesting, Mr. Speaker, that the other residents of Labrador should
have to pay more than what they are paying. I understand the cost of travelling
within the region, but there is no legitimate reason why we, too, should not be
part of the plan that provides that benefit to other residents of Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, I say to this government to immediately act upon solving this
problem, and treat people in Labrador West the same as people in other parts of
Labrador are treated. It is a discriminatory practice that should not be allowed
to continue, and I ask the government to immediately fix this by including the
residents of Labrador West into the total plan that is now available for other
residents of Labrador.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?
Orders of the Day.
Orders of the Day
MR. HARRIS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi
Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, I just rise to raise a question regarding
Standing Orders of the House, in particular Standing Order 63, subsection
(8) with deals with the issue of a private member's motion. Next Wednesday,
Private Members' Day will be upon us once again, and I just want to call to
the attention of Your Honour, 63 (8) "... recognizing motions introduced by
Members who sit in the Opposition, the Speaker shall ensure that motions made by
Opposition Members who do not sit with the Official Opposition are called for
debate in proportion to the number of those Members to the number of all Members
who sit in Opposition, with the intent that each Member sitting in the
Opposition shall have an opportunity to introduce a Private Member's motion
once during a Session."
Mr. Speaker, I think you will agree that the allocation of members on this
side of the House since the last election has resulted in a situation where we,
in the NDP caucus, have two members, approximately one-sixth of those sitting in
Opposition with regard to the official Opposition. Therefore, it is my
calculation that by Wednesday of next week it will be our Opposition day. I do
note, however, that Standing 63 (3) does not provide for this particular type
situation, and, in fact, calls upon either the Government House Leader or the
Opposition House Leader to announce the private member's motion to be debated
on the Wednesday that is forthcoming.
I raised it today, Mr. Speaker, because Monday is the day when either of
these House Leaders are called upon, by the procedural rule in
section 63 (3) to
give that announcement. However, I wouldn't imagine that the substantive rule
in 63 (8) could be overridden by that. I bring it to your attention and perhaps
the Opposition House Leader might have some comments on that. The rule says it
is Your Honour's duty to ensure that this might happen. I don't think we
have a problem, Mr. Speaker, because I believe there is some agreement on it.
Perhaps the Opposition House Leader would wish to address it.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. PARSONS: Thank you.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, we have reviewed Standing Order 63, in particular
subsection (3) and subsection (8). We have no difficulty whatsoever in
recognizing that next Wednesday ought to be the private member's day for the
NDP in this particular case. It is our view, in fact, that notwithstanding the
anomaly between subsection (3) and subsection (8), I don't think the
Government House Leader or the Opposition House Leader is going to be reading in
the NDP's private member's motion. I would suggest and submit that
subsection (8) is substantive,
whereas subsection (3) is procedural, and being
procedural we leave the procedure to yourself, Your Honour, to decide that the
NDP would read in his own motion on the time required, which I believe would be
Monday.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Who am I to interfere with two hon. gentlemen who have already worked out a
relationship, an arrangement?
As the member has highlighted, there is a formula - I guess, for the lack of
a better term - in terms of how private members' motions are put forward and
by whom. I will say this, this is not a debating point for today but maybe
something that my hon. colleague, the Opposition House Leader and my colleague
the Leader of the New Democratic Party, the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi
might think about over Christmas, and when we get back in January and we look at
the review of the Standing Orders that we try to find a more equitable way for
the dealing of private members' resolutions. It is just a thought that I throw
out there, unsolicited as it may be, but certainly with the agreement, the
arrangements and whatever guidance the Speaker provides the government certainly
will adhere to, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair notes that it is a valid point of order and agrees
with the presentation put forward by the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi
Vidi and thanks the other members for their contribution.
If it is in agreement with the House, then on Monday the Member for Signal
Hill-Quidi, or the Member for Labrador West, will put forward a motion to this
House. I do understand that
section 53 of the Standing Orders would dictate that
if the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi were to put forward a new motion he may
wish to have the motion which now stands on the Order Paper withdrawn. That
would be an agreement, I do believe, between all hon. members.
We will let the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi be guided by the consensus
in the House and we look forward on Monday to his announcement in the House. I
agree, he should announce his own resolutions.
Orders of the Day.
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Motion 2, the hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and Minister
Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs to ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, An
Act To Ratify And Give The Force Of Law To The Labrador Inuit Land Claims
Agreement. (Bill 44)
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of
Transportation and Works, and Minister Responsible For Aboriginal Affairs shall
have leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Ratify And Give The Force Of
Law To The Labrador Inuit Land Claims Agreement. (Bill 44)
Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. the Minister of Transportation
and Works, and Minister Responsible for Labrador Affairs shall have leave to
introduce said bill?
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
Carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and Minister
Responsible for Labrador Affairs to introduce a bill, "An Act To Ratify And
Give The Force Of Law To The Labrador Inuit Land Claims Agreement,"
carried. (Bill 44)
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a
first time.
Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a first time?
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
Carried.
CLERK: A bill,
An Act To Ratify And Give The Force Of Law To The Labrador
Inuit Land Claims Agreement. (Bill 44)
MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read first time. When shall the said
bill be read a second time?
AN HON. MEMBER: Tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 44 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Motion 4, I ask leave that the Minister of Natural Resources to introduce a
bill entitled,
An Act To Amend The Forestry Act. (Bill 46)
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of
Natural Resources shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend
The Forestry Act. (Bill 46)
Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. the Minister of Natural
Resources shall have leave to introduce said bill?
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
Carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Natural Resources to introduce a bill,
"An Act To Amend The Forestry Act," carried. (Bill 46)
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a
first time.
Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a first time?
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
Carried.
CLERK: A bill,
An Act to Amend The Forestry Act. (Bill 46)
MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read first time. When shall the said
bill be read a second time?
AN HON. MEMBER: Tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 46 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
For the sake of everything, I ask your advice on this. I am going to
introduce Motions 5, 6, 7 and 8. Is there a potential that we could do those
together or should we carry on through them one by one? This is just the
opportunity to have all those bills read a first time so we can get the
legislation distributed. Can we have concurrence on that? Would that be -
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair can concur if there is agreement among the House
Leaders.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. E. BYRNE: It seems to be agreed with, Mr. Speaker, so I will move
them all together and then we will do it together.
Motion 5, which is the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs to ask
leave to introduce a bill,
An Act To Amend The Municipal Elections Act. (Bill
55)
The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General to ask leave to
introduce a bill entitled,
An Act Respecting Court Security. (Bill 54)
Motion 7, the hon. the Minister of Government Services to ask leave to
introduce a bill,
An Act To Amend The Public Tender Act. (Bill 53)
And myself, in my capacity as Government House Leader, ask leave to introduce
a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend The Internal Economy Commission Act. (Bill 56)
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of
Municipal and Provincial Affair shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend The Municipal Elections Act. (Bill 55)
It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney
General shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act Respecting Court
Security. (Bill 54)
It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of Government Services
shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend The Public Tender
Act. (Bill 53)
It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Government House Leader shall have
leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend The Internal Economy
Commission Act. (Bill 56)
Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. ministers shall have leave to
introduce said bills?
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
Carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs to
introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Municipal Elections Act,"
carried. (Bill 55)
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General to introduce a
bill, "An Act To Respecting Court Security," carried. (Bill 54)
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Government Services to introduce a bill,
"An Act To Amend The Public Tender Act," carried. (Bill 53)
Motion, the hon. the Government House Leader to introduce a bill, "An
Act To Amend The Internal Economy Commission Act," carried. (Bill 56)
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bills be now a first
time. Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bills be now read a first
time?
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
Carried.
CLERK: A bill,
An Act To Amend The Municipal Elections Act. (Bill 55)
A bill,
An Act Respecting Court Security. (Bill 54)
A bill,
An Act To Amend The Public Tender Act. (Bill 53)
A bill,
An Act To Amend The Internal Economy Commission Act. (Bill 56)
MR. SPEAKER: These bills have now been read a first time. When shall the
said bills be read a second time?
AN HON. MEMBER: On tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 55 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 54 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 53 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 56 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I will ask now that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to
consider Order 4,
An Act To Amend The Motorized Snow Vehicles And All-Terrain
Vehicles Act. (Bill 45)
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that I do now leave the Chair for
the House to resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on Bill 45.
Is it the pleasure of the House that I do now leave the Chair for the House
to resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on said Bill 45?
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
Carried.
On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr.
Speaker left the Chair.
Committee of the Whole
CHAIR (Fitzgerald): Order, please!
Bill 45,
An Act To Amend The Motorized Snow Vehicles And All-Terrain Vehicles
Act.
CLERK: Clause 1.
CHAIR: Clause 1.
The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.
MR. SHELLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair, I rise again today. Of course, I have been up already to speak to
this bill in second reading, but we are in Committee stage today. There have
been some concerns and questions raised, and it is a good time to debate those
things.
I will just make a few short comments today and then give it to my colleagues
to go back and forth across the House to speak to the bill, but I have to make a
few more comments because I did speak for just a few brief minutes the other
day. I must say, there has been some good feedback, some varying views, and that
is exactly what it is all about when you debate in the House, back and forth,
and we get into now, of course, Committee stage and so on.
Mr. Chair, there have been a few points raised from people across the
Province who have said the same thing to me: that, first of all, this is a $21
million investment that has been done over a number of years. We built this,
basically, we as a people, both from the provincial standpoint and a federal
standpoint. Twenty-one million dollars have gone into an infrastructure in this
Province which, by the way, I think most people agree, has a great potential to
increase our winter tourism potential.
Whenever, even ten years ago, we talked to people, they talked about tourism
in this Province as a summer or even a fall tourism. Now, of course, we have
tourism operators in this Province who employ some 2,600 people to talk about
tourism in this Province - but they just referred to summer tourism or usually
fall - but now we have the potential, with this particular industry, of
expanding that into a winter tourism here which we know has such incredible
potential.
That has been evolving over the years. It has been an ongoing debate. I
remember sitting in Opposition three or four years ago talking about the trails,
and how are we going to maintain and upkeep these trails, the ones that we are
building now throughout all of our communities, throughout rural Newfoundland
and Labrador, and the potential for them. So that question, Mr. Chair, and that
debate, has been ongoing for a number of years. I guess what I said in my
initial remarks was that I have always believed, when you are building an
infrastructure, no matter what it is for, part of that plan should be how you
are going to maintain and operate them as we go forward. That is something, Mr.
Chair, in my opinion - and I have said this publicly a couple of times the last
couple of days - this whole idea of how we are going to operate and maintain
them should have been a part of that plan back four and five and six years ago
when they were looking at building this infrastructure.
That being said, we are here today and the short history on my side of it is
that just last year one of the first situations I ran into in the department
that I went into, Mr. Chair, was from the federation and so on, at a point last
year where we thought the industry would not even be able to get started. Of
course, with some short-term measures last year, and with a lot of co-operation,
we did.
Mr. Chair, there was a good point raised by the Opposition critic, the Member
for Bay of Islands, yesterday. Keeping in mind that we have these $21 million
worth of trails built, it was a real good point that the member brought up, and
I am sure we all would like to make mention of it, and that is, these are
volunteers. These are people on these associations, clubs throughout
Newfoundland and Labrador, who spent hours and hours of volunteer work to
develop what we have now as a snowmobile industry.
The Member for Labrador also made a good point - and I myself have
snowmobiled for years - to get on a groomed trail in the comfort that it is
today, a lot of people will tell you that they love it, and that is the way it
should be. I could also tell you that people have said to me that what it saves
on maintenance on your snowmobile, and of course gas monies, all of that comes
into effect when you are talking about a groomed trail, a smooth ride trail with
signage and so on.
So these are a lot of things that have developed in this industry, and it is
going to continue to develop. The good news is that this is the beginning - a
lot of people believe - of a potential industry that could bring very good
economic impact to this Province. It does not hurt to repeat it, it was
volunteers who had the foresight and the vision to keep pursuing this, keep
pursuing governments from all levels to get commitments of funding, and to
finally end up with an infrastructure in this Province that is worth over $20
million.
Mr. Chairman, on top of all of that - and I am sure the Member for Labrador
will agree with me on this one - as we talk about the Province of Newfoundland
and Labrador as we have gotten comments back from last year of Europeans and so
on, and people from Quebec especially that came into Labrador to snowmobile,
saying that it was the best in the world. Not just the best they have ever seen,
the best in the world.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SHELLEY: That is what we have before us today. So just think about
when we put all of that together. We have volunteers who are on the ground, who
have done so much work in this, in all our communities - I know them and you
know them. We have a quality product, that I believe too, is the best in the
world. Now we have to move forward to co-operate and make sure that those
volunteers in all of those clubs across this Province know that they have the
support of this government and that we are going to act on it. I made a
commitment last year that we would act on it. That is why it is in the
Legislature today. We want to move forward.
I am glad we are going to enable those associations - and that is the key
point in this legislation. We are enabling those associations to take upon
themselves, from fee structures to whole maintenance of the trails and so on. It
will be how they collect the money and how they spend the money. There will be
an audited statement annually, which they have agreed to. They think it is the
right thing to do, that every year this Province will get a full update of
monies collected and how they were spent. That is very important, the
accountabilities there. I think a lot of things fall into place there.
Another concern that was raised by a number of people, and I have already
spoken to both associations - the Labrador trails and the Newfoundland and
Labrador federation - that some clubs are smaller than others. For example, I
heard the president of the St. John's Avalon area on this morning talking
about how they are trying to get hooked up now and they are working towards
their trails. The potential of all the snowmobiles around the St. John's area
to go out around the Province. So while we are talking about the smaller clubs
saying that they have small numbers, of course when they collect fees there is a
lot less money, but they still have the good trails. In bigger areas where they
have the bigger numbers, as far as both associations have told me and indicated,
all of this should be looked at as a complete Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador. As funds come in, whether it be a large number in an area or a smaller
number, that all of that should work towards helping smaller clubs and so on,
making sure they have the help to maintain and enhance their trails.
Mr. Chairman, this has to do with an inaugural year, really, of this whole
thing moving forward, of co-operation among the people out there in clubs who
are volunteers. I have a good indication and a good feeling that this thing
could work if we all co-operate and chip in. Also, as the Member for Labrador
reminded me, there are a lot of good points as this debate moves on; that as
most people co-operate and pitch in and become part of this and pay their fees,
that helps everybody. It helps the trails, and the clubs that have smaller
numbers. It helps everybody in the amount of fees there are and, of course, the
rising cost of insurance and the cost that comes with fuel and so on.
Mr. Chairman, this is a win-win for everybody if we co-operate. We have an
infrastructure in place now that can grow to, of course, benefit people in the
Province, but also as a tourism potential for people who want to come and see
our beautiful Province and explore it from a winter perspective, which I think
is my favorite time of the year when I was talking about snowmobiling.
There are a lot of good points. There is a lot of good debate. I am sure, Mr.
Chairman, as we move into this - keeping in mind that the association is on the
ground, the Newfoundland and Labrador Federation on the Island. The Labrador
Winter Trails are going to work with us and co-operate with us, co-operate
together as an entire Province to make this good for everybody.
There are a number of questions. I am going to allow my colleagues to get up.
I will take some notes, Mr. Chairman, and give them a chance to speak. If there
are any concerns or questions raised I will come back later on in the day and
make notes and make sure we try to get the answers to some of those concerns.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Would you just confirm for me first how much time I have to speak? Fifteen
minutes, is it?
CHAIR: Order, please!
The first two speakers in the Committee of the Whole taking
part in debate
have fifteen minutes each, every other speaker will have ten minutes.
The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
MS THISTLE: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
I am delighted to speak on Bill 45 today. Yesterday, we were talking about
salmon. Today we are talking about snowmobiles. Both of those areas of
recreation are near and dear to all of us in Central Newfoundland and, indeed,
the Province all over.
I believe this is a good piece of legislation. My greatest concern about this
legislation is the fact that I do not believe the government has done their
communications on this piece of legislation. That is the biggest problem I see
with it. I know that people mostly all around this Province are in favour of
this but the problem, as I see it right now, with Bill 45 is that the general
public are not informed. There are a lot of unanswered questions out there in
the public today. I am certain that the minister feels the same way as I do from
what he has said in his
preamble today.
I would have thought - and I think most of the Province would have thought -
that early fall this year you would have taken this show on the road. You would
have actually gone out all over this Province -
MR. SHELLEY: (Inaudible) associations.
MS THISTLE: I know it is the associations but somebody has to be the
umbrella, the catalyst to get this moving and get the communications out in the
public because most people have a lot of questions. They do not know what is
happening. They know that Bill 45 was actually laid on the Table on Tuesday
afternoon, just two days ago. Yesterday was Private Members' Day, so we had no
opportunity to debate it yesterday. Today is the first day that, really, we are
having a to and fro here in the House. We started a little bit on Tuesday
afternoon but not the entire Tuesday afternoon.
MR. SHELLEY: We have all day. Take your time (inaudible).
MS THISTLE: I know we have all day. This is good stuff that is happening
and you do not want to give the impression that you are trying to railroad it
through and not give people ample opportunity to have their questions answered.
I received quite a lot of phone calls and e-mails, as I suspected I would
living in Central Newfoundland, where snowmobiling is very popular. The main
concerns that I had is there are some people who do not use the groomed trail
and they were wondering if they had the ability, once this legislation is
passed, to actually cross over the groomed trail to access their cabin without
buying a permit. That question - now, I do not know why the Member for Lake
Melville would laugh at that because that is legitimate. That is legitimate
because -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MS THISTLE: It is not a stupid question.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
CHAIR: Order, please!
MS THISTLE: Sometimes when there is no other access, only the groomed
trail, you might have to cross over. So there is no such thing as a stupid
question. If that is a question on the minds of people out here in the Province,
it needs to be answered.
Another question that was asked was that - we have a situation in Central
Newfoundland, and I know it exists in Western Newfoundland, where logging is
taking place. A lot of those contractors, although they have good intentions,
don't restore the rail bed to its original condition. Who will be responsible,
once this legislation goes through, in putting the rail bed back to where it
should be? Even though it is groomed, you have a lot of ruts in this rail bed in
areas where logging is taking place and it doesn't seem to get repaired. These
are the kinds of things that, naturally, users will have to know. If they are
paying a sticker price, they want to know that the rail bed will be in good
condition. I know it is going to be managed by independent snowmobile clubs
throughout the Province, and everyone will be responsible for their particular
area.
What some other people are asking me: Once they purchase a sticker, whether
it be in Clarenville or Lab West or in Western Newfoundland, can they be assured
that the condition of the trailway will be uniform throughout the Province? Will
some snowmobile clubs do a better job of maintaining their trails? Who will make
the decisions with regard to the expenditure of funds? Will some snowmobile
associations decide to build lodges? Will they decide to put more trails in at
the risk of not maintaining the primary trails? All these are valid questions.
I understand, from what I have been reading and from talking to different
people, that decisions that affect the overall usage of the trailway come under
the guise of the Newfoundland and Labrador Federation of Snowmobile Clubs. Any
big decisions - this year there was a question put forward to the federation and
it revolved around the idea of a family sticker for snowmobilers, anyone who
might have more than one snowmobile in their family. They wanted to come up with
a fee that would look after the entire family instead of having them all
separate. Apparently, the Federation of Snowmobilers turned down that request
and they went with individual sticker price or individual machine price. That is
a concern for anyone who has a family and the entire family is using the trails.
Then there was another question brought up: Who is going to do the policing
on the trailway? Is it the RNC, where they preside, or is it the RCMP? Is it the
conservation -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
CHAIR: Order, please!
MS THISTLE: I don't know what is going on here. You have a whole row of
backbenchers who do not want me to ask these legitimate questions that
constituents of mine have asked. They are all answering in unison. They do not
take this matter seriously. The minister takes the matter seriously, but I think
you need to hear these; they are good questions. These are the kinds of
questions.
You have said conservation officers, RCMP and RNC, anyone who is entrusted or
authorized to do that kind of enforcement. We have not spoken about the fees.
There is nothing in this legislation to talk about the fees, and what kind of
fees there are going to be for different violations. There is nothing there.
I know, personally, from talking to the Exploits Snowmobile Association, the
one that is in my area, they had a membership last year of 441 but up to today
they have 800 stickers sold. So, I know that most people in my particular
constituency are interested in having groomed trails and are willing to pay the
price providing they get the service. I think the only question is the fact that
they have not had the opportunity to go through public consultations on this
matter, because anything that affects the outdoors and the outdoor rights of
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians is a very sensitive issue. I think we want to
make sure that any questions that come to the forefront are answered.
I know a lot of this will be regulation once legislation is passed. A lot of
these questions will form part of regulation, and anything that is regulated is
internal to government and it can be changed as time goes by; however, I
recognize, as well as every member in this House recognizes, the potential of
having our trailways groomed. We had the unfortunate incident a year or so ago,
in Badger, of losing one of our groomers in a bog; but, like the minister has
said, we are dealing with volunteers.
Do you know that volunteers and the business community themselves actually
pulled that groomer out of the bog? There was a young man inside that groomer
who managed to get out. He almost lost his life. The bog was so deep, it
consumed the groomer. Volunteers and the business communities actually pulled
out that groomer and restored that back to its original shape, which was a
wonderful, kind gesture on behalf of the business community and the local people
who realized the potential for that groomer and needed it done.
When I look at the fact that we have winter tourism right from - I will speak
about my district, but we know it is all over the Province - Grand Falls-Windsor
to Buchans, you are getting people now coming from Howley on the West Coast
going to Buchans, through the Gaff, down through Millertown and out to Grand
Falls-Windsor. They frequent service stations, they frequent hotels, and they
frequent communities. I know that every community within my District of Grand
Falls-Buchans is in entire agreement with having groomers on the trail and
passing this legislation. From an individual perspective of people who have
called me and e-mailed me, I do have to bring forward their questions and make
sure that they get the answers to them.
There is another question that came up, and that was about the actual
collection of the fees and how the money was going to be distributed. I know it
is going to be looked after by each independent, I guess, federation - or, not
the federation, each individual snowmobile association.
AN HON. MEMBER: Part of it.
MS THISTLE: Part of it. They are going to get a portion, I think, of
maybe $20 out of every sticker that is sold. I guess the uncertainty that was
brought to my attention by a constituent was the fact that: Will some
associations be getting more money because they have an idea of doing things
differently in their particular neck of the woods?
What safeguards will be put in place so that every snowmobile association
would have a uniform and a standard trail bed that would attract users from one
end of the Province to the other? Instead of saying, well, I am not going to go
down that section, that is never groomed, or that is full of ruts, or I think we
will go over there, they have the best lodges or whatever, what kind of
safeguards are going to be in the actual dividing up of the money that comes as
part of the sticker price so that we can be sure that when we go to promote our
trailway outside the Province and inside the Province, whether it be summertime
or wintertime, it is going to be in good condition?
Another question will arise, too - and it did; I received a call last night
at home - we know that in the summertime when ATVs use our trail beds, I heard
that some $59 million went into provincial revenues, one way or another, because
of the ATV business across our Province last year. I would also like to know,
and ask the minister, was any of that money put back into the system, or was it
put into general revenues and used for other kinds of tourism promotion? We know
that has happened. Do we have any guarantee that our trailways will be in
tip-top shape for users on quads and ATVs in the summertime?
We know we are looking at legislation now for grooming the trail in the
winter, but we have to look at this as an all-season marketing tool, and
something that is going to be able to bring in a lot of money to this Province.
We know, looking at the stats that come with snowmobilers, that the average
age of the snowmobiler around the world is forty-two years old. It says that 75
per cent of snowmobile owners are married.
CHAIR: Order, please!
I remind the hon. member for Grand Falls-Buchans that her time has expired.
MS THISTLE: It is too bad, but I thank you for this time. Maybe I will
have an opportunity to speak again later.
Thank you.
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.
MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
What I am going to do, because there are a number of questions - and the
member asked some very good questions, commonly asked questions, as a matter of
fact, and some good points - instead of me doing all the questions now, I will
wait until we get responses from all members. I will make notes here and, at the
end of it all, I will answer the best I can the questions raised. I thank the
member
Thank you.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
AN HON. MEMBER: Lake Melville.
CHAIR: Lake Melville, I am sorry.
The hon. the Member for Lake Melville.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HICKEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you for recognizing the great District of Lake Melville.
Mr. Chairman, I want to rise in the hon. House today to speak to this, what I
believe to be, very important piece of legislation. I congratulate the minister
and his department for putting this forward to this hon. House today. The
Province, in partnership with the federal government, has invested approximately
$21 million into the development of groomed snowmobile systems in the Province
of Newfoundland and Labrador. There is approximately 5,500 kilometres of
snowmobile trails that have been developed to date through this investment.
This legislation will require that all users of groomed trails will be
required to buy and display a trail use permit. The cost of an annual trail use
permit will range from as low as $60 to as high as $125, and weekly and daily
passes will also be available for the purchase at a lower cost.
Mr. Chairman, I believe this is a good piece of legislation because of the
great opportunities that we have in this Province, and I want to talk a few
minutes about, certainly, my own district, and indeed Labrador, where I
basically spent literally thousands of hours on a snowmobile, where we have a
great trail system running from Cartwright to L'Anse au Clair. In Southern
Labrador we have a trail system now which runs from Happy Valley-Goose Bay North
to North West River and on to the unique, beautiful Town of Postville up on the
North Coast of Labrador, and there is a trail system that runs from Labrador
West, Labrador City, Wabush, to Churchill Falls and then into Happy Valley-Goose
Bay.
What we are finding is that, certainly, a lot of people own machines in
Labrador. I would suggest to you that pretty well every household in Labrador
has one, and many of them have two snow machines, because this is a favourite
pastime of Labradorians. This is a favourite pastime for people to get away to
the cabins on the weekend and to get to do hunting trips, and adventure tourism
is a great opportunity here for snowmobile trips, guided snowmobile tours. So,
Mr. Chairman, I believe that in order for us sustain the trail system in the
Province in the long term, then obviously snowmobilers and snowmobile clubs must
play a very important role in managing this particular activity.
What this legislation will do, it will ensure that the policing of these
trails will take place and, as I understand it, these trails will be policed by
peace officers, which include the RCMP, the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary, and
other provincial enforcement employees, conservation officers and wildlife
managers, will be given the authority for trail use permit enforcement as part
of their normal day-to-day duties.
Penalties will range from $100 to $200 for a first offence, with a
possibility of a short-term imprisonment in lieu of a fine to also apply to
offenders pursuant to these proposed amendments. I think this is good, because
it ensures that those who use the trails will indeed pay for their memberships.
Mr. Chairman, there was a comment made earlier by the member across, what
about people crossing snowmobile trails? This legislation does not - as I see
it, anyway, the reading I have done on it - say that you cannot use a snowmobile
trail, or a snowmobile to cross a snowmobile trail. I think this is something
that will happen from time to time, and I think we will have to leave it to the
good judgement of our enforcement officers to ensure that they use their best
judgement. as they normally do in these type of situations. It will also give
those who do not want to buy stickers and do not want to become part of
snowmobile clubs, they still have the opportunity to get out into the country,
to get out into the outback and to enjoy winter on their snow machines.
I think this is a very progressive piece of legislation. As I understand it
right now, all provinces, with the exception of Newfoundland and Labrador and
British Columbia, require the annual registration of snowmobiles for their
snowmobile systems.
I do know that in the Province of Quebec this has become a multi-million
dollar industry in which the Province of Quebec, particularly in Northern
Quebec, have built a great tourism industry. I hope that some day soon we will
see a trail system across Labrador and into Quebec, and tie into the other trail
systems across the country. I think this is something that we can shoot for. I
think this is something that is realistic. I think it will create an atmosphere
of winter tourism in Atlantic Canada that is second to none in the world.
I congratulate the minister for this piece of legislation. Certainly, from my
district, we have many groomed trails throughout the community that have been
built over the last number of years with federal funding, for the most part.
I will say, Mr. Chairman, that these trails are used extensively. There is a
big advantage, and for anybody who has done any tracking with snow machines over
great distances, I can tell you that riding a snow machine on a groomed trail
saves money in gas, saves money in maintenance repairs on your snow machine and
saves on ones back because I remember in the years where we had to go over - as
my good friend from Labrador West calls them - the yes ma'ams for miles and
miles and miles when we were caribou hunting and into the bush. I can tell you
that these snowmobile trails will provide many hours of pleasure to the
snowmobile public and to the travelling tourists.
So, I congratulate the minister, Mr. Chairman, and the minister certainly has
my full support on this piece of legislation.
Thank you very much.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I want to say it is great that we are having this debate today on Bill 45 and
the amendment to Bill 45. I want to say that it is great that debate is also
taking place in the Province in the various forms of media that we have the
opportunity to use.
I am glad, Mr. Chairman, on Tuesday night when I raised this issue for the
first time publicly because my strongest argument with what is happening here
today is the fact that people in the Province did not know it was happening.
Indeed, most people in the Province did not know until I went on the Open Line
show on Tuesday night and again on Wednesday morning. Now the people in the
Province are actively discussing this issue and I think, for the most part, it
has been pretty positive, that finally something will be done to make trail
passes mandatory in the Province.
But, having said that, Mr. Chairman - and I am a member of the White Wolf
Snowmobile Club, I have been for years. I have my two Ski-Doos registered but
there are still a lot of problems that I am not comfortable with, even though I
support the prospect of mandatory passes for trails. There are still a number of
things that I am not comfortable with. I think a lot of the issues that I am not
comfortable with are issues that the public are not entirely comfortable with
either, Mr. Chairman. If there were public meetings held than a lot of these
things would have been thrashed out. The parameters could have been set so that
everybody would know the ground rules going in.
Now, the minister has stated that this issue has been talked about a lot of
times; he has had a lot of discussions. Granted, he may have but, Mr. Chairman,
he has had them with the snowmobile associations and the snowmobile clubs around
the Province. There has not been a lot of discussion, or any discussion, with
the general public at-large, who are the largest number of snowmobilers in the
Province.
Mr. Chairman, issues - I would ask the minister if he could address when he
gets up the next time. One that the Member for Grand Falls mentioned is: What
happens to people who are using the trail to get off the trail, so to speak?
Because there are places in the Province where people have to go on the trail in
order to get away from it entirely. What happens if someone is caught crossing
the trail, or the 400 or 500 feet? I certainly hope common sense will prevail in
judging these situations, but I would think it would be a lot simpler and
straightforward if they were addressed by way of regulation.
Also, Mr. Chairman, in the amendment to Bill 45 we talk about fixed stickers.
I know a lot of people in my area who probably have an old Ski-Doo by their
cabin that they only use to haul water with or go to cut wood, things of that
nature. Now, they would have to licence that as well. If they had a good Ski-Doo
that they use for the trail itself, they would have that one registered, but
what about the old one that is sitting by their cabin? Probably there may be
people out there in the public, if they had the opportunity, who would say:
Well, why have a fixed sticker? Why not have a sticker that you can transfer
from one Ski-Doo to another so that the Ski-Doo you are using is registered?
That is what the important thing is, the Ski-Doo that you are using is a
registered Ski-Doo; not the fact that if you have two or three old Ski-Doos that
you have to have them all registered because you might use them for different
purposes. A lot of people who have a new Ski-Doo may not want to take their old
one in through the bushes and the gulley' in order to get a load of wood.
There are areas in that, Mr. Chairman, that is of concern to me as well.
I do know the value of the groomed trail, Mr. Chairman, and I can say
first-hand that in my area of Labrador West we have some of the greatest trails
and we have some of the greatest groomer operators in this country who keep the
trails in tip-top shape. We also have a chalet system. Every fifty kilometres on
the trail there is a chalet with a wood stove and wood stocked. All of this, Mr.
Chairman, is done by volunteers who put in many hours of work in making sure
that public safety is met, because it is a concern when a person is in the
wilderness subject to changing weather and cold temperatures. It is a great
comfort to have these chalets strung out along the trail for people to go in and
get a warm-up or to use in the event of an emergency.
Another area, Mr. Chairman, I think, that could have been addressed by having
a public meeting is the area within a community, the town boundaries, so to
speak, and whether or not the trails should be subject to the town boundaries,
whether or not people would have freedom to move, but if they use the trail they
would pay. Mr. Chairman, there are a large number of issues that I can see
arising out of these proposed amendments to Bill 45 that are going to cause
people problems.
The idea, Mr. Chairman, in making this change is to bring as many people as
possible into the snowmobile associations so that we can have the largest number
possible. I don't believe the best way of doing that is by bringing in
legislation and finding solutions after. I think, as much as possible, the
problems should have been identified in the communities, the problems should
have been solved in the communities, prior to the legislation coming into
effect.
I suppose, Mr. Chairman, the minister could say that when this bill goes
through and becomes law, then in the winter the snowmobile associations - and I
hope he would agree - that the snowmobile associations can have these meetings
to evaluate what some of the problems were in the first winter and to identify
what the solutions might be, and that the minister will respond to these by way
of changing regulations to fit them before the next skidoo season starts, next
fall in our case, Mr. Chairman. The intent and the desire here is to get as many
members as possible.
The other thing that I hope will result from that, as well, is that when the
membership increases, as I predict it will, the price of the sticker for the
trails would, in our case, probably go down. If we have more members, rather
than paying the $125 plus tax, which is nearly $150 now, for one machine, maybe
that can be reduced significantly if the membership increases significantly. I
think that is one of the things that should be looked at as well.
I also want to ask the minister: This is
An Act To Amend The Motorized Snow
Vehicles And All-Terrain Vehicles Act, and they give a definition, Mr. Chairman.
I say to the minister the definition in
Section 3(e.1) states a, "motorized
snow vehicle' means a tracked vehicle, commonly known as a snowmobile, where
the driver sits astride a seat and which is designed for operation over snow
covered land and ice."
I have seen, Mr. Chairman, many times where four-wheelers or quads have been
on Ski-doo trails. I ask the minister, is there anything in the regulations, or
the act, that would prevent four-wheelers or ATVs from using the Ski-doo trails?
Because this talks about what happens if you use a Ski-Doo or a snowmobile on a
Ski-doo trail without being a member. This is what all this addresses. What
about four-wheelers and ATVs and quads? It is common for them to be on Ski-doo
trails once they are hard-packed. I ask the minister, by not including, are they
excluded, and will they be subject to the same thing as using a Ski-Doo without
a pass?
I think there are a number of questions that are going to require a lot of
tweaking, if you will, to make this system work. I talked about the buffer
zones.
Another thing I would like to ask the minister, as well, is in
section
20.3(f.4) states that, "providing for the allocation of powers and duties
of bodies referred to in paragraph (f.1) to designates", and (f.1) talks
about, "providing for the compulsory purchase of trail use permits and
identification of that purchase by the affixation of stickers or other
identifying markers to motorized snow vehicles operating on managed trails
established and maintained by specific bodies." I wonder if the minister
could explain what that means in its entirety, Mr. Chairman.
Again, I want to say to the minister that, while a lot of people may be
applauding the efforts that this amendment to Bill 45 is making, there is also a
lot of concern by the public. There are also concerns, I would suggest, by
people who are already members of the various snowmobile organizations around
the Province.
CHAIR: Order, please!
I remind the Member for Labrador West that his time has expired.
MR. COLLINS: Just to clue up, Mr. Chairman?
CHAIR: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
CHAIR: The hon. member, by leave.
MR. COLLINS: Even members of association, like myself and many others,
may have concerns in the area I have talked about, where you have an older
Ski-Doo by your cabin that is used for specific purposes, whether or not you can
transfer your sticker to a different machine, or whether there would be any
other solution that could accommodate things of this nature.
I would conclude on that, Mr. Chairman. I am sure that before this day is
over, or before this bill is passed, I will have the opportunity to rise again.
Thank you.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I want to take an opportunity this session to make a few comments about Bill
45. I think this is a very significant piece of legislation, because it has a
major impact on what is becoming the fastest growing recreational activity in
the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I think, in the district that I
represent, in Trinity North, it just happens to be probably the start of what
has become a major tourism industry and a major recreational activity.
If you look at the East Coast of the Province, and you work your way from St.
John's towards the west, you get in around the Trinity North area, around the
general Clarenville area, is where you start the very beginning of the groomed
trail network that actually starts in the Island portion of the Province.
MR. COLLINS: That is where it starts to snow.
MR. WISEMAN: That is where is starts to snow. I say to the Member for
Labrador West, he is absolutely right. That is why I am very pleased and very
proud to note that the winter tourism activity, the winter recreation activity,
has really become a major part of the economy in the Trinity North area,
particularly around the Clarenville area, with the cross-country and downhill
skiing, and, in recent years, with the emergence of a large network of groomed
trails.
The comment I would like to make, Mr. Chair, today speaks to not only to the
substance of the bill - because I think the bill, in fact, is a progressive
piece of legislation. There are a couple of things about it. Number one is that
this bill represents an action by a government, but the reality of it is, the
groomed trial network in this Province, and the maintenance of the groomed trail
network, and the emergence and support of this major recreational activity, has
taken place with a large network of volunteers, dedicated individuals throughout
Newfoundland and Labrador who have put a tremendous amount of effort in, and
continue to work hard and diligently in making sure that this industry continues
to grow.
I think, at this time, I would really like to thank all of those individuals
who have done such a tremendous job in advancing this recreational activity in
this Province, because it is their hard work that has allowed us, as a Province,
to reach where we are today, which is the eve of what we think is a major burst,
an emergence of a new industry - winter tourism. I think this is going to be a
future for large parts of Newfoundland and Labrador.
The other significant issue with respect to this bill, it also deals with an
industry that has a tremendous impact on an economy. This is where I want to
speak first-hand with respect to how it has impacted regions like mine. As I
said a moment ago, as you move from St. John's West, you are into Trinity
North before you really start to have a winter season, where you have reasonable
snow conditions to be able to participate in these kinds of activities. As a
result of that, I do not know for a fact, but I suspect, just based on an
observation in travelling throughout Newfoundland and Labrador, that Clarenville
has the largest number of recreation equipment dealerships than anywhere else in
this entire Province. These individuals have developed and grown successful
businesses, employing large numbers of individuals because of this industry,
because of the emergence of snowmobiling in this Province. One of the things
that has lend to this, being the large number of groomed trails that exist
throughout the Province.
In addition to this - inasmuch as this bill speaks to the groomed trail
network in the Province, we are very fortunate in Newfoundland and Labrador that
we still have a large network of what is ungroomed trailing to be characterized,
and it is categorized as ungroomed trails throughout the wilderness. That also,
I think, speaks to one of the concerns that have been raised in this House
today. Will this legislation apply to each and every snowmobile owner in the
Province, regardless of where they snowmobile?
The reality of it is, I say, Mr. Chairman, is this bill - as the minister has
already pointed out - applies to those individuals who are going to use the
groomed trails, and that has been the single issue that has been raised in my
district. What about those individuals who still want to travel throughout the
wilderness, blaze their own trails, go into the back country away from the
groomed trail network altogether? This particular legislation does not deal with
those people at all. This deals with individuals who want to use the groomed
trail network. That is an important point and important message, I think, that
everybody needs to understand. That is a significant issue, because as
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians we still value the vast wilderness area that
exist in this Province. Our ability and our freedom to be able to use that at
our leisure - and this legislation does not, in any way, restrict or inhibit or
in any way try to control the use of that wild and vast wilderness area where
many people can travel, as they will, throughout the Province. So, anybody who
wants to stay away from the groomed trails will have lots of opportunity to do
it and will not need to have a licence for their machine, but anybody who wants
to use the groomed trails, this legislation ensures that the associations
throughout the Island and Labrador will have a revenue stream to allow it to be
supported and continue to be maintained. That is what this particular bill is
about.
We have been very fortunate, extremely fortunate, I say, Mr. Chairman, in
this Province to have had been blessed with such an attraction to the outdoors.
As a result of that, I think many people have found that many leisurely hours
can be taken from snowmobiling and other recreation activities. I think as a
government and as a Province we have a responsibility to enact legislation like
this which allows us to nurture that budding industry. We have been very
successful in recent years, extremely successful, Mr. Chairman, in developing a
strong summer tourism industry. It is this kind of supportive legislation that
allows us to move forward and greatly enhance winter tourism in this Province.
I want to commend the minister for responding to the request of the industry
out there, the people who are involved with the snowmobile indust