Fourth Session, 41st Parliament

(2019) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Monday, October 7, 2019

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 268

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Orders of the Day

Private Members’ Statements

Back to school

D. Routley

D. Davies

PolioPlus

R. Coleman

R. Singh

Reconciliation

M. Dean

D. Ashton

Resilient rural communities

C. Oakes

R. Leonard

Private Members’ Motions

Motion 11 — Interest-free student loans

R. Glumac

S. Gibson

S. Malcolmson

R. Sultan

S. Chandra Herbert

S. Cadieux

B. Ma

J. Yap

J. Brar

J. Thornthwaite

J. Routledge

MONDAY, OCTOBER 7, 2019

The House met at 10:04 a.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers.

[10:05 a.m.]

Orders of the Day

Private Members’ Statements

BACK TO SCHOOL

D. Routley: This being our first day back to school, so to speak, back in May,

when we were asked for a title for a statement this day, I put up the

title “Back to School.” It would be the first opportunity to speak about

what we just witnessed over the past month in this province: an annual

rite of passage of teachers, students and communities, as the entire

flow of the community shifts with kids going back to school.

But it’s not just the traffic and not just the social

circumstances of those parents, who get a little break and those

teachers who come back from a bit of a break. There’s so much more to

what happens every September.

This September I want to read a few things that were given to me

as points that I might mention in back-to-school conversation around our

government’s performance. Then I want to get to the piece that I really

want to focus on. But I am proud of these achievements.

[J. Isaacs in the chair.]

We all know that it takes a strong economy to have a strong public

education system, and it takes a strong public education system to have

a strong and thriving community and economy. Towards those ends, our

government is proud that we’ve spent $1.6 billion in seismic upgrades —

invested so far in the 2½ years that we’ve been in government, less than

2½ years. The school capital projects in that time have totalled $2.7

billion. We have seen $1 billion more put into schools in the last two

years, in terms of student support in classrooms. This is a total

increase of 17.1 percent, while enrolment has only grown by 3.2 percent.

That is for the first time since 2006.

All 60 school districts are forecast to see an increase in funding

over the coming school year. This is very important. That $1.6 billion

invested since September 2017 in new schools, expansions, seismic

upgrades and property purchases allows communities to grow.

A friend of mine who runs a bicycle shop was looking for a

community to open a new shop. This was at the same time that schools

were being considered for closure, about ten years ago in the community

I represent. He said: “One thing I would not look for in a community

where I’m going to locate a bicycle shop is closing elementary schools.”

It’s clear that this is a link, and it’s clear that people are liberated

by their public education experience.

We’ve also invested in Indigenous education in an effort to make

reconciliation a real matter. We’ve invested $400,000 towards Indigenous

teacher–training seats and curriculum development in B.C. universities.

We’re leading the way as the only jurisdiction in Canada with a tripart

agreement that ensures an equitable education for First Nations

students, no matter where they live, and $100 million over five years

for an agreement that supports First Nations students in B.C. who attend

on-reserve First Nations schools or off-reserve public or independent

schools. This is so important, and it’s really part of a game-changing

reality for First Nations and our relationship with First Nations as the

province of British Columbia.

Now I’d like to focus on another aspect, which I’m so proud of,

and that is the focus on mental health that this government has brought,

with the Ministry of Mental Health and Addictions. That has been

transferred into the Education Ministry and the education system.

Teachers, administrators, districts are embracing an effort to uplift

people — young, vulnerable people — who are suffering with mental

illness and addiction issues.

We are very proud that this year we hosted the School Community

Mental Health Conference. That brought to­gether 500 educators and

community partners who focused on making life better for students who

struggle with mental health challenges. We’ve invested $3 million to

support professional development and new school mental health programs

focused on prevention, wellness, promotion and early

intervention.

Madam Speaker, this is so important, because today I drove over

the bridge at which a terribly tragic occurrence happened: the death of

Reena Virk. This was a local girl who was bullied in school throughout

her school career, and it ended in a terrible tragedy. She was murdered

at that bridge.

[10:10 a.m.]

We have heard so many stories. Each year we don pink shirts and

talk about how we are standing in opposition to bullying and supporting

students who find themselves shunned. That word “shunning….” Bullying

can be physical; bullying can be psychological. It’s the act of shunning

a person, I think, that excludes. The exclusion and the isolation — that

is where these issues really take root, I believe.

I would appeal to parents, teachers and people in the community to

redouble our efforts to identify when we can see that young people are

struggling, to find a way to reach out and get past some of the things

that scare us, some of the things that concern us, and to get to the

ones that really ought to. Complacency is one of the greatest challenges

in dealing with issues of mental health. Complacency — it hurts.

Recognition, acceptance and embracing are suicide prevention.

D. Davies: It gives me great pleasure to reply today to the statement “Back

to School” — first of all, as the Education critic, as well as a teacher

myself and a father of two children that are in school right

now.

As the days get colder and the leaves start to fall — by the way,

I’ll say that it snowed in Fort St. John this morning, about four

inches, so fall is definitely upon us — this can certainly only mean one

thing. That is, the first month of the school year is behind us. It

gives us time to be able to reflect and look at what this means for all

British Columbians.

Back to school always feels like excitement clashing with

apprehension. That’s really what September means to many of us,

certainly myself, as I recall, being a former teacher. Regardless,

though, of being a parent or a teacher, these are exciting times. Of

course, this year there is a little extra apprehension, as we are moving

forward with looming contract negotiations that don’t necessarily seem

to be going well. The need for more schools and the need for more

teachers is also ever-present.

As I mentioned, as a former teacher, I used to relish in the month

of September — getting the classroom ready, preparing all the things we

need to do as teachers. But it happens all summer long. We’re always

thinking about how we can make our classrooms more inclusive, ways to

make our classrooms more welcoming, collaborating with other teachers,

thinking of new and better ways we can inspire our young people. It’s a

very hectic time in a teacher’s life but incredibly fulfilling, as you

see the bonds within the classroom being made and the unique dynamic

starting to form.

I know administrators and educators are feeling settled now.

They’ve gotten a feel for the classes, the tasks at hand have already

begun, and the understanding of many of the student needs is well

underway.

For students, of course, the fog of summer has lifted, and they’re

back into the routine of the school year. Clubs and other sporting

opportunities are underway, and business is as usual. I know that many

of you folks here with kids have an understanding and are looking

forward to a sigh of relief that accompanies this one-month milestone of

the first school month behind us. Now we’re looking forward to the break

of Thanksgiving coming shortly.

In the spirit of this, though, I’d like to look at some of the

accomplishments of British Columbia students, focused on giving students

a better education environment for B.C. students. It’s important to

highlight that British Columbia students do have some of the best

outcomes in the world. B.C. schools are places where we are seeing the

best graduation rates in decades, and that is due to a concerted effort

by administrators, parents, teachers and even students.

First Nations school completion rates have continued to climb

upwards as efforts toward reconciliation and Indigenous studies provide

a welcome space for students and a chance to share in culture and

knowledge in ways that, unfortunately, have not been the norm.

Elementary and middle schools are a challenging time for kids,

regardless of their circumstances. But I know that many anti-bullying

programs that are focused on inclusion and acceptance are making their

way, in progressive ways, throughout all of our schools in British

Columbia.

[10:15 a.m.]

With that said, I’d be remiss if I didn’t touch on one of the

biggest issues right now, I believe, facing British Columbia children,

and that is the dangers of vaping and nicotine addiction. The mental and

physical ailments, not to mention some deaths, are a very real concern

for many. Youth are getting hooked on nicotine at alarming rates, and

that seems to show no signs of slowing down, at least not until there is

strong action by government to put the livelihoods of kids over

everything else.

Last spring my colleague from Kamloops–South Thompson brought

forward a comprehensive bill that aims at taking action against this

epidemic. Other jurisdictions are taking strong, decisive action on

things like vape flavouring. I can only hope that in the spirit of back

to school and mutual care for the livelihood of our youth of this

province, a determined action will be set forth. I look forward to

seeing progress on this issue as this legislative session

continues.

In closing, to all the students of British Columbia, I do say good

luck in an incredible school year.

To all of our teachers and administrators, thank you for all that

you do.

D. Routley: Thank you to the member for his reply. I was pleased to see him

come into the chamber when this came up because I thought that he might

be the one replying. I’d like to take an opportunity to congratulate him

for his many years of service to the students of British Columbia. I’m

sure he probably feels a little hankering for the classroom now and then

when he’s in this place, certainly in September.

I know that a lot of the anxiety students feel is what teachers

have felt for the last little while, before the school year starts every

year. My family were all teachers. My grandmother, my mother, my sister

— everyone is a teacher. I remember, at end of year, the stress and the

demand and then, at the beginning of the year, the anticipation but also

the stress of that.

We need to give everyone support wherever we can, as they’re going

through that, and settle kids into their routine as quickly as possible,

as the member points out. This is a really important aspect of

supporting people — the family, the community as a whole.

Again, if I may take it back towards the mental health and

addictions issues and support for those students, bullying and mental

health issues are so significant. As we start the year with the

positivism that the member encouraged students to view this with — an

opportunity and a new beginning — let’s make a new commitment that the

word “inclusion” will be forefront in our minds, particularly at a time

when, around the world, we’re seeing so much exclusion and so much

conflict based on who people are and what they look like and how they

live their lives and what they believe in.

These are the things that can be the division points between kids,

and I hope that there will not be complacency in adults and leaders who

see these things happening. We need to intervene and not only support

the student who’s a victim of that but also the student who is,

unfortunately, repeating those kinds of messages — to help support

students in not embracing those kinds of ideas about one another and to

encourage them to be inclusive and accepting of each other.

I know this is an odd place, sometimes, to be using those terms,

but I do think that we all need to remind ourselves, at this important

time of the year, of how crucial it is to students who struggle that we

recognize that, that we give them support and that we see them and hear

them. Many thanks to the member for his fine words about the students of

British Columbia.

POLIOPLUS

R. Coleman: Many years ago, when I was a young child, in the basement of St.

Ann’s Catholic church, there was coffee after church. Someone walked up

to my mother while I was standing beside her and asked this question:

“Does Richard have polio?”

I didn’t. My mother said I didn’t, but I wore orthopedic shoes. I

think that’s why the question came, because polio was such a big issue

at the time. Two children in my neighbourhood were struck by polio and

disabled. One person I know, one family, lost a child to polio. So I

wanted today to bring up PolioPlus and talk a bit about the history of

polio and where we’re at today.

Polio, for most people who don’t realize, is a virus. It was

discovered in 1908.

[10:20 a.m.]

In 1916, a major polio outbreak took place in New York City. More

than 2,000 people across…. At that period of time, when more than 2,000

were struck with it, 6,000 people died, and a whole bunch of others were

paralyzed, thousands of them, as a result of polio.

In 1929, the iron lung was invented to try and keep polio victims

whose respiratory systems couldn’t handle it.

In 1955, Dr. Salk, Jonas Salk, found, basically, a vaccine for

polio. It wasn’t until the U.S. government licensed it in 1906, one that

was developed by Dr. Albert Sabin, that they moved forward.

Things for polio globally changed in 1979. Rotary International

decided they wanted to do something about it, and they put in a

multi-year project in the Philippines to immunize six million

children.

From there, in 1985, Rotary International, with PolioPlus, which

is the charity they have — the first and the largest internationally

coordinated private sector support to a public health initiative —

started to fundraise. Their commitment was $120 million U.S.

In 1988, Rotary International and the World Health Organization

launched the global polio eradication initiative. At the time, there

were an estimated 350,000 cases of polio in 125 countries.

The international commission for certification announced that

polio had been eliminated from the Americas in 1994, largely due to the

work of PolioPlus.

In 1995, health workers and volunteers immunized 165 million

children in China and India in one week. Rotary launched the PolioPlus

Partners program, enabling Rotary members in polio-free countries to

support fellow members in polio-affected countries.

In 2000, a record 550 million children, almost 10 percent of the

world’s population, received the oral polio vaccine. The western Pacific

region, expanding from Australia to China, was declared polio-free. The

Rotary International Foun­dation raised $119 million in a 12-month

campaign. Rotary’s total contribution to polio eradication at that time

exceeded $500 million U.S. Six countries remain polio-endemic:

Afghanistan, Egypt, India, Niger, Nigeria and

Paki­stan.

In 2004, in Africa, a synchronized national immunization date in

23 countries targeted 80 million children, the largest coordinated polio

immunization, or any immunization, in human history at the time. The

number of polio-endemic countries dropped to four: Afghanistan, India,

Nigeria and Pakistan.

In 2009, Rotary’s overall contribution to the eradication effort

nears $800 million. In January, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation

pledges $355 million and issues Rotary a challenge grant. This

announcement will result in a combined $550 million in additional

support for polio eradication.

India surpasses one year without a recorded case of polio and is

removed from the list of countries where polio is endemic. Polio remains

endemic in just three countries. Rotary surpasses its $200 million

challenge fundraising goal more than five months earlier than

expected.

In 2014, India goes three full years without a case caused by the

wild poliovirus, and the World Health Organization certifies that the

Southeast Asia region is polio-free. Polio cases are down 99 percent

since 1988.

Rotary International is a community that brings together people

across the world, a remarkable organization. They have — get this —

helped to immunize more than 2.5 billion children against polio in 122

countries. They reduced the polio cases, as I said, by 99.9 percent

worldwide, and they won’t stop until they end the disease for

good.

Sometimes leadership comes from the most interesting places — a

group of volunteers in the Philippines who cared about their country and

their children. Today 2.5 billion children, because of the work of

Rotary, the World Health Organization and those partnerships, have been

saved from the scourge of this terrible disease.

[10:25 a.m.]

R. Singh: I would really like to thank the member for Langley East for

bringing out such an important issue and talking about the great work

that Rotary has done all over the world to combat this disease,

polio.

Coming from India, having been born there and been brought up

there, “polio” was a word that I used to hear very often. As a young

child, a lot of times I would go and I would see kids who could not walk

properly or whose hands were not properly developed. I would curiously

ask my mom: “What’s wrong?” She would just whisper: “You know, they are

affected by polio.”

As the member mentioned, with the help of Rotary, a campaign

started in India. I’m a witness to that. We would see billboards all

over talking about the immunization against polio. We would see the

ads.

I was so glad to hear — I was also doing my research — that since

2012, India has been polio-free. I remember when my child was born. He

was born in India in ’99. Every time I went to the doctor, he would make

sure that he was immunized for polio. So I know the firsthand effects of

polio, and I really, really appreciate the work of Rotary.

This also brings us to the important issue of immunization. Being

a mother who always wants their children healthy, I made sure that my

children were immunized. My son, who was born in India, when he came to

Canada, was immunized for different diseases. So is my daughter, who is

in grade 6 now.

With the recent global measles outbreak, this issue about

immunization came into focus all over again. A lot of times we ignore

it. We just think that this is something not important. But with this

outbreak, it made all of us realize that any child can be vulnerable to

that.

I was so happy to see that with the start of the new school year,

within a week I got a big notice from the school, tracking the

immunization record of the children. Because I was so anal about

immunization, I called my public health unit just to check how my child

was doing, and they told me that she got one dose of measles, but that

was not correct. Somehow she missed it. And if this notice had not come

to my home, I would have just completely ignored that.

It is so important — the immunization and the work that our

government is doing for the well-being and for the health of our

children. It is very important, and I think it’s very commendable. We

should all….

I’m really glad about your statement today, Member. It just brings

us to the importance of health, the importance of the immunizations and

what they can do for every child’s well-being.

R. Coleman: Thank you to the member for their comments.

Later in life, after I found out I didn’t have polio as a child, I

had the opportunity to tour Pearson hospital. If you ever had the

opportunity to go there, you would be struck, at that time in the ’80s,

by the iron lung, which was invented back in about 1929.

People that had polio have since needed assistance for

disabilities and technical aids to actually communicate and be able to

live independently. We’ve come such a long way on that, as a society, by

the work of a number of non-profit organizations, obviously led by the

bringing up of the issue by Rotary International.

It is humbling to know that for volunteers in my community, from

my Rotary clubs…. PolioPlus is one of the focuses they have. It’s

humbling to know they have that worldwide. It’s amazing to know they

could put together a volunteer army that could literally immunize

hundreds of millions of children in a short period of time in any given

country and do that in such a way that you change the lives of

billions.

[10:30 a.m.]

As I thought about this topic today, it struck me that 2.5 billion

children have been immunized against polio in 122 countries. Is the next

great leader saved because of this? Is the person that will cure cancer

for people saved by this? Will countries’ futures change by new

leadership that will bring peace to countries that are war-stricken? You

cannot measure what this could mean and has meant to the

world.

To Rotary, PolioPlus and their partners: thank you, thank you,

thank you.

RECONCILIATION

M. Dean: Hay’sxw’qa, hon. Speaker.

[Lək̓ʷəŋin̓əŋ was spoken.]

Hay’sxw’qa gwns âne ’techul

Lək̓ʷəŋin̓əŋ y Xsəpsəm

Tung’exʷ. Hay’sxw’qa si’em

nakwilia.

I just said good day to everyone; thank you for coming to

Lək̓ʷəŋin̓əŋ and Xsəpsəm land;

and thank you, hon. colleagues, in the traditional

Lək̓ʷəŋin̓əŋ language.

I’d like to acknowledge that as MLA for Esquimalt-Metchosin, I

also represent all Indigenous people living in our community and, in

particular, the Songhees, Esquimalt and Scia’new Nations.

I’m able to talk here with permission of the generous and wise

teachings of Elder Dr. Elmer George. We asked him if he would teach the

local language to me, and very kindly, he agreed. He also teaches the

children in Esquimalt. My whole team and I attended the first lesson,

and we learnt about much more than simply language. He has given me

permission to use the words and sentences that he taught me in these

chambers and out and about in our community. I feel very honoured to

learn and to speak this traditional language.

I also want to thank Elder Shirley Alphonse from Cowichan, now

living in T’Sou-ke Nation. She helps me regularly with protocol and

cultural learning and understanding. It was she who introduced me to

Elder Elmer, to ask for his teachings.

I also thank our Lieutenant-Governor of the province of B.C. She

led the way as a community figure in learning an Indigenous language and

always using it, wherever she is and whoever she’s with. I was inspired

by her leadership and personal action. I took my own action because I

recognize that reconciliation must mean action.

We must, of course, recognize the wrongs in our history. We must

recognize the impact of colonization, of colonialism and the harm that

it has caused and continues to cause. We must take action in all aspects

of our lives in order to achieve reconciliation. At a government level,

I’m very proud of the steps that we’ve taken.

I am so honoured to work with and paddle alongside the first-ever

Indigenous woman cabinet member, our Minister of Advanced Education,

Skills and Training. She herself said that one of the proudest days of

her life was making the announcement of free post-secondary education

for youth who have been in care, because, of course, we all know that

Indigenous children are overrepresented in the care system. So this

policy provides a pathway for those youth to achieve their potential and

have opportunities for their lives ahead.

We’ve banned birth alerts, which is a big step in moving the child

welfare strategy away from apprehending children and towards keeping

families together. I know of professional Indigenous women who were in a

meeting, and when they heard that news, they burst into

tears.

These are examples of actions that are having a profound effect

and paving a way for reconciliation. We must continue to do more. We’ve

invested in affordable housing on and off reserve for Indigenous people

of British Columbia. We’ve invested in language revitalization. We heard

a lot about how Indigenous languages were banned and efforts were made

to eliminate them, when we were at the Orange Shirt Day event in

Victoria this year. Children were abused and shamed for using their own

languages in day schools and residential schools. We’re working with

Indigenous communities to revitalize language and recognize how

important it is within culture.

[10:35 a.m.]

We do support, and indeed, we had a provincial proclamation for,

Orange Shirt Day — to emphasize the need to recognize the history of

residential and day schools and the intergenerational trauma that has

resulted and continues to result from that oppression. In fact, just

recently I bumped into a local Indigenous woman outside my constituency

office — just last week. She commented and spoke to me directly about

how important it was for her to see me at the Orange Shirt Day

event.

We also made a historic decision to implement revenue-sharing from

gaming with Indigenous communities. This supports communities with

reliable funds that can be used to support their communities with what

they need and what their priorities are. We’re working with Indigenous

people and local communities to put the principles of the UN declaration

on the rights of Indigenous peoples into action. We’ve committed to

co-develop legislation with the First Nations Leadership Council to

bring the principles of the UN declaration into provincial law, and

legislation will be introduced this session.

I’ve also been very closely involved with the provincial work in

response to the national inquiry into missing and murdered Indigenous

women and girls, and I want to take a moment to recognize the enormous

courage of the survivors and families who have brought us to this

moment.

In honour of the women, girls and two-spirit peoples who have been

stolen and those who have survived, I’m committed to taking action and

supporting change. The path forward to end violence against Indigenous

women and girls and two-spirit people must be informed by survivors,

family members and communities, and involve healing and

ceremony.

I attended the final session of a series of community engagements

over the summer, led by an Indigenous woman leader, based on Indigenous

methodology. It was extremely valuable work. As it was the last session,

we held a ceremony to close the whole series of sessions.

Our plan for our province will be informed by this work and will

be developed with families, Indigenous partners and communities, and it

won’t only take the government of British Columbia. It takes all of us,

as British Columbians. I ask everyone in this House: what will you do to

advance reconciliation? What actions will you take to make sure that the

calls to justice of the national inquiry report are met?

Hay’sxw’qa.

D. Ashton: I would like to thank the member for Esqui­malt-Metchosin

for her comments today.

I rise today to talk about First Nations reconciliation, something

everyone in this province needs to continue and improve. I know

advancing First Nations reconciliation is a goal shared by all members

in this House.

At this point in time, I would like to thank the original people

of the Okanagan for sharing those incredible, bountiful lands that I

live on, in conjunction with many of them.

I would also say that from that bountiful land, each one of the

caucuses in this House has received a box of Golden Delicious Aurora

apples. Please remember where they came from — the wonderful Okanagan —

when you bite into them.

Efforts in regard to reconciliation laid the foundation upon which

we continue to build throughout each year, with continuous engagement of

First Nations. British Columbia has done a lot more to advance First

Nations reconciliation, but are we perfect? No, we’re not. But the

previous Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation did an

incredible job of advancing the cause of equality for all, something

that I’m incredibly glad to see the current minister

continuing.

British Columbia has been leading the charge within Canada,

working to improve the quality of life for First Nations through new

economic partnerships, resource development, revenue-sharing and the

treaty process. Also made were great strides to close the social and

economic gaps between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal communities through

the advancement of housing, health services, education, skills training

and employment programs for First Nations and close to 500 economic and

reconciliation agreements with First Nations to date. In fact, B.C. was

the first province in Canada to establish revenue-sharing with First

Nations, providing a new stream of income for mining, forestry and other

resources.

Revenue-sharing is a path to partnership that provides a

percentage of what the province receives from resource development on

First Nations traditional territories. Funds from revenue-sharing go

directly back to the communities to use it where it is needed the most.

British Columbia has signed 24 revenue-sharing agreements with over 40

First Nations.

[10:40 a.m.]

In total, revenue-sharing provided…. More than $26 million in

direct mining tax revenue has been shared in these communities. With

respect to forestry, what was introduced was more consultation and

revenue-sharing agreements based on harvest activities on their

traditional territories. No less than 240 of these agreements with 154

First Nations include more than $420 million through forestry

revenue-sharing agreements. Again, this money was passed into the

communities.

In terms of the energy sector, LNG in particular, government has

reached 62 natural gas pipeline benefits agreements with 29 First

Nations for four proposed natural gas pipelines. That’s both

governments. It was started…. We all know where it was started, but we

know it’s carrying on, and that’s incredibly important for all the

people of British Columbia and specifically all the people of

Canada.

However, we recognize that reconciliation goes beyond simply

providing greater economic opportunities. We soon learned that the

constant engagement between First Nations groups and the B.C. government

was essential to maintaining respectful government relations and support

for reconciliation and self-determination.

Another first in Canada was holding joint cabinet meetings with

First Nations leadership. This provided First Nations with direct access

to the executive branch of government and generates opportunities to

advance the cause of reconciliation — something I am very glad to see

continue.

As you know, Canadians from all walks of life value health care.

In remote and sometimes isolated communities, the importance of health

care becomes all the more vital, espe­cially in Aboriginal

communities. In order to establish provincial health standards across

the board, the B.C. First Nations Health Authority became the first of

its kind in Canada.

Finally, we all know that education is a key that unlocks the

potential for individuals to succeed. To that end, partnerships have

been established between Aboriginal communities and school districts.

The aim is to improve outcomes so that Aboriginal children will grow up

with the best possible opportunities to succeed.

Between 2017 and today, the high school completion rate for

Aboriginal students has increased from 39 percent to 63 percent. I see

now, with recent data, that between 2017 and 2018 it has risen to 70

percent, and I say thanks to all that have made an incredible difference

in making that up. But we still have a long way to go. It’s worth noting

that in 2015 the Indigenous graduation rate was 24 percent lower than

for non-Indigenous students. That gap has now been reduced to 16

percent, but again, it’s a number that needs to be reduced sooner than

later.

We all have come an awful long way, but there’s a lot more to be

done. Every student in British Columbia should be given the best

opportunity to succeed. Overall, a pathway to reconciliation that

continues to improve the outcomes for Indigenous people in our society

is imperative. However….

Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Member.

M. Dean: Thank you to the member for Penticton for your support for

reconciliation.

I ask everyone in this Legislature to consider their own actions,

because we’re all in leadership positions, and we can all take actions

that do promote reconciliation. Since being elected in 2017, I’ve

created space and options and taken advantage of opportunities to take

personal actions to enact reconciliation in my life.

In 2017, I arranged for Elder Shirley to do some smudging through

the Legislature buildings. This included the Pre­mier’s office,

cabinet offices, MLA offices and staff offices. In fact, I remember the

smoke blowing up from the basement. It was swirling around people’s

ankles as they walked around the precinct, and they must have wondered

exactly what was going on in the buildings. Yet Shirley recalled for me

days when chiefs weren’t even allowed in this building. I suspect that

this was probably the first time there’d ever been a smudging

here.

This week she’s offering smudging to all MLAs and Legislature

staff on behalf of the Office of the Speaker. I’ve also worked with

Shirley and the Speaker to look at ways to increase Indigenous

representation and engagement in the precinct, like maybe some signage,

some traditional language, some art and parking for elders.

I also walk and I take

part in the Moose Hide and the Stolen

Sisters campaigns. These campaigns are filled with really important

ceremony, and I learned so much from my experience and participation.

It’s a real honour to be invited, to be an ally and to be part of those

movements. I invite and I ask all of my colleagues to think deeply about

taking part and about why these are important ceremonies and movements

and events.

[10:45 a.m.]

As my colleague the Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and

Training says, we must all paddle together in the canoe. I do, again,

ask everyone in this House to do all that you can, in all of your

actions, to make progress towards true and lasting

reconciliation.

Hay’sxw’qa.

RESILIENT RURAL COMMUNITIES

C. Oakes: Cariboo North is a resilient riding. It is made up of hard-working

men and women who have certainly experienced their share of

challenges.

Recently we’ve all witnessed firsthand the clear message from

logging truck drivers, who made the convoy down to Vancouver to get the

attention of the NDP government. The convoy included contractors and

subcontractors, important small businesses in our rural communities.

They want to go back to work. They do not want handouts. Most of all,

they want a government to take some action.

Unfortunately, the recent action by the government — cancelling

over 330 applications to the rural dividend fund — is another reason why

loggers, regional district directors, local governments and small

business stakeholders are deeply upset with what is going on in Victoria

these days. As Williams Lake mayor Walt Cobb put it, “They’re robbing

Peter to pay Paul,” by cancelling the $25 million rural dividend fund to

finance a forest worker support program that doesn’t even cover the

whole province.

The whole purpose of the rural dividend fund is to help small

communities with a population of 25,000 or less to diversify local

economies, instead of being fully reliant on single resources that

characterize so many forest-dependent communities. At the most recent

annual meetings at the Union of B.C. Municipalities, local governments

were questioning why there is no new money to help forest

workers.

On July 19, the Finance Minister announced that B.C. has a $1.5

billion surplus. Most of the wealth in this province is generated from

natural resources, and nearly all of it is extracted from rural British

Columbia. It is done so by hard-working, taxpaying men and women who

have helped build this province. So with a $1.5 billion surplus, why is

it necessary to cancel the rural dividend fund to divert funds

elsewhere? This makes absolutely no sense.

It costs a lot of money for logging truck drivers in the Cariboo

to drive all the way down, on their dime, to Vancouver just because they

felt that government is not listening — all for the simple reason that

people struggling in the forest industry want to go back to work. They

have large payments due on their equipment, and many have not worked

since last winter. I have talked to many families impacted. There has

been a lot of concern and, quite frankly, a lot of tears.

The most common question being asked of me by my constituents is:

how can it be, when they have been good-paying, taxpaying citizens who

have contributed so much to the livability and vibrancies of their rural

communities, when they have always been willing to step up to assist

other parts of this province…? When they are in need, why are they being

abandoned?

There are a lot of things government could do to put people back

to work. One of the areas of action that should be addressed is the

restoration of the land base being impacted by several years of

record-setting wildfires. Wildfire mitigation and restoration of

watersheds should be a top priority, especially in the

Cariboo.

[10:50 a.m.]

Following the 2017 wildfire season, experts joined together with

government on a think tank on how to restore the ecological balance and

resiliency of the Cariboo and look at how we can ensure the safety and

protection of our communities. First Nations and business stakeholders,

like Community Futures, had applications in to the rural dividend fund

to do just that.

We should be listening to experts that have come forward to say

that we need to look at addressing wildfire mitigation in the same way

as we look at earthquake preparedness on the coast. Local experts, First

Nations elders who know our area share a vision to look at ecological

resilience and the recovery of wildlife populations.

So where are we today? The government is paralyzed and failing to

do anything to make our forest industry competitive again. On September

10, Teal-Jones, the largest privately owned timber harvesting and lumber

product manufacturing company in British Columbia, announced that it was

curtailing all of its operations in British Columbia because: “Current

stumpage rates remain high relative to lumber prices, and harvesting

costs have been adversely impacted by new regulations to bring out more

residual waste fibre.” We are talking about the loss of hundreds of jobs

and even more contractors, subcontractors and small

businesses.

Before I conclude my remarks, I hope that the member opposite who

will be responding on behalf of government can answer a few questions.

Why has British Columbia lost its competitive edge in the forest

industry? I would also like to know, from the member responding, why the

government refuses to re-examine the manner in which stumpage fees —

that is, the amount of money logging companies pay the government for

timber on Crown land — are currently calculated. Everyone in the

industry knows that the way stumpage is calculated poorly reflects

current market conditions. It is one of the reasons B.C. has become the

highest-cost producer in North America.

R. Leonard: I’m pleased to speak to the member for Cariboo North’s statement

on resilient rural communities. Resiliency is about being able to spring

back in the face of difficulty and change. It is an important topic to

address in a severely shifting world.

I’m proud of all of the work our government is doing to support

rural communities through today’s many challenges and to become more

resilient through increased diversity. Preparing for future catastrophic

events, the firefighting budget was increased this year by 58 percent.

Budget 2018 invested $72 million to support wildfire recovery and

resiliency activities in B.C. communities, and our commitments to

continue to grow.

Sixty million dollars over this past year for the community

resiliency investment program is helping lower wildfire risk around

communities, with fuel and vegetation management, planning,

cross-training, FireSmart activities to protect residents’ private

property. Receiving funds relative to their wildfire risk, rural

communities across B.C. — like Strathcona regional district next door to

me and like Quesnel, in the member for Cariboo North’s own constituency

— have received significant support. The list is long.

Our government has topped up funding under the forest carbon

initiative by $13 million over the next three years. From unplanned

reforestation in areas impacted by the 2017 wildfires to transporting

uneconomic wood to local pulp mills, pellet plants and camp facilities,

we’re seeing diversification in rural communities with this $290 million

federal-provincial investment.

As climate change turns up the dial on more extreme weather,

resiliency is also key to agriculture. Impacted by wildfires the last

two years, this year it’s been hit with flooding. Ranchers whose haying

was devastated by the Chilcotin flood have till October 15 to apply to

emergency management B.C. for uninsurable flood losses.

[10:55 a.m.]

The first regional food hub to foster growth and innovation in

order to diversify the agricultural sector is being developed in Quesnel

for the Cariboo region. More hubs are at the feasibility business plan

stage in Salmon Arm, Hazelton and Courtenay.

New or improved high-speed Internet in rural communities, with

45.4 million federal and provincial dollars, will finally help 154 rural

communities — 44 of which are First Nations — from Prince Rupert to

Vancouver to access education, economic opportunities and even

telehealth.

Last April saw the first increased investment in tech programming

in more than a decade. It’ll see 40 IT graduates coming out of North

Island College and 1,000 additional tech grads across B.C. by 2023. The

tech sector is growing with good-paying jobs contributing to rural

resiliency.

Nearly a quarter of this May’s intake of the rural dividend fund —

that’s $4.6 million of nearly $19 million — supported local governments,

First Nations and NGOs responding to economic challenges from the loss

of a main employer or the impacts of a natural disaster.

There’s $100 million in the new northern capital and planning

grant. As the Premier said: “The people of these communities have

contributed to our prosperity in B.C., but they’ve not seen a fair share

of return to their communities. This will help turn the

tide.”

This past spring an historic revenue-sharing agreement was signed,

which will see First Nations communities receiving stable, long-term

funding. First Nations communities will determine their own priorities

with a share of provincial gaming revenues. When the past government

closed nearly 200 public schools in rural communities, when they changed

the K-to-12 funding that mostly hurt rural schools, when they closed

rural hospitals and downgraded services in dozens of other centres, when

they cut seniors services and eliminated long-term care beds and when

they cut ferry services in the north, were they supporting more

resilient rural communities?

When 100 mills closed and 30,000 forestry jobs were lost, did they

stand up for rural B.C.? As the Premier has said: “We need each other.

Urban needs rural, and rural needs urban. We can’t have one without the

other.” That’s why our government is forward-looking, committed to

supporting people in their communities in so many ways to create a truly

resilient British Columbia.

C. Oakes: I do want to thank the member opposite for their contributions to

this debate.

I had hoped for a response on the two questions I asked: why has

British Columbia lost its competitive edge in the forest industry, and

why has British Columbia become the highest-cost producer in North

America? Perhaps the member opposite would come back to me with a

response at a later time, because I think it’s an important part of the

conversation.

The member started her debate today talking about springing back

in the midst of incredible change. I think for all of us in this House,

we are looking at how we support our communities to transform and to be

resilient. One of the ways that we have supported communities for many

years is through the rural dividend fund.

It is incredibly difficult and shortsighted of a government to

suggest that we expect, look and hope for communities in rural British

Columbia to spring back when all of the resources that are provided to

these communities to do that have been removed.

What do you say to a First Nations community that has faced

multiple years of wildfires and economic challenges — because even our

First Nations’ communities are highly dependent on forestry-related

activities — to be told when they put forward their rural dividend

application this year that their project will not move forward? These

are critical times for these communities, because there is fear and

there is concern about making sure we’re doing the important work on

mitigation.

I talked to another First Nations two weeks ago, and while funds

have been put forward around mitigation, the message I’m hearing back

from communities on the ground is it’s great to have consultants, and

it’s great to have people to do workplans. What we need in our

communities are boots on the ground. What we need in our communities is

the ability to have funds that have direct impact in our communities to

make sure that we look at what our interface is in communities, not just

our municipalities. But what do our First Nations communities have for

interface fire mitigation?

[11:00 a.m.]

What do our unincorporated communities like Nazko have on the

ground? They’ve repeatedly been denied funding to make sure this

important work happens in their communities.

I want to go back to another comment the member made about making

sure…. We’ve been affected by floods this year. I appreciate the funds

that were put forward in the Cariboo-Chilcotin when floods happened

there, but flooding impacted Cariboo North significantly. I have

constituents who have lost bridges and private property. They’ve been

flooded out for an entire season in Nazko, and there is nothing that

they are eligible for.

The member opposite talked about a fair share and getting funds

back to communities. I hope that we will be able to work together, both

urban and rural, to make sure that we get people back to work, back to

contributing, and that we ensure that there is a fair and reasonable

expectation of funds coming back to rural British Columbia.

[R. Chouhan in the chair.]

Hon. C. James: I would ask that the House consider proceeding with Motion 11

standing in the name of the member for Port Moody–Coquitlam.

Deputy Speaker: Members, unanimous consent of the House is required to proceed

with Motion 11 without disturbing the priorities of the motions

preceding it on the order paper.

Leave granted.

Private Members’ Motions

MOTION 11 — INTEREST-FREE

STUDENT

LOANS

R. Glumac: I would like to move the motion:

[Be it resolved that this House unanimously supports interest-free

student loans in British Columbia.]

We all know that getting a degree at a university is a very

important part of gaining the skills we need for today’s jobs. I grew up

in a household, myself, that placed a very high value on post-secondary

education, not because my parents had a post-secondary degree but

because they didn’t. In fact, my mom was born in former Yugoslavia, and

she grew up on a farm. She didn’t have the chance to have a higher

education, and she reminded me every day how important that was. I’m

sure a lot of mothers across Canada did the same. In fact, that’s maybe

the reason why, in Canada, we have the second-highest ranking in the

world of students that have completed post-secondary

education.

In many countries around the world, university tuition rates are

very low, or in some cases, they’re even free. But in Canada, tuition is

expensive, and that means student debt is high. Nearly 50 percent of all

students graduate university with student debt, and more than 60 percent

of those have student debt of more than $20,000. When you consider that

it can take over a decade to pay back debt of this amount, that can mean

thousands of dollars in extra payments for interest.

It’s those students with the fewest financial resources that have

to borrow the most to go to university. These students, the ones with

the highest debt and the least means to pay, don’t need things to be

even harder by also needing to pay back interest on the student loans

that they’ve taken out. That is why our government has eliminated

interest on student loans in British Columbia.

As MLAs, we’ve all heard from students. We know how hard students

work to get a degree and how hard it is to repay the student loans. Not

having to pay back student loan interest has made a huge difference for

a lot of students in British Columbia. We’ve heard a lot of stories. I

wanted to quote from a recent graduate, Leah May, who wrote the

following:

“I’m 31 and the first one in my family to attend post-secondary

school and graduate with a child and youth care degree, specializing in

Aboriginal studies, co-occurring disorders and child protection. After

school, I participated in a global affairs internship in Uganda for six

months, and I was not able to start paying student loans back right

away.

[11:05 a.m.]

“I worked hard to put myself through school while having to work

part-time to keep the bills paid and make my dreams happen. I’m truly

grateful to have the opportunity to be able to pay back my $50,000

student loan without interest. Thank you for making this

possible.”

There are countless testimonials like this. I wanted to read one

other, which is from Sara Rutishauser, who wrote the

following.

“As a hard-working single parent living in one of the most expensive

cities in the world, paying such high interest rates on my student loans

was a real burden. Last year I paid almost $1,000 in interest. This

money could have been spent on rent, food or activities for my

children.

“Now that this interest has been removed, I can breathe a sigh of

relief and know that not only am I much closer to paying off my student

loans, but I also worry less about living paycheque to paycheque and can

begin to finally save money. For this, I am grateful.

“Thank you for thinking of all the hard-working B.C. students that

continually strive to improve their quality of life as well as others’

around them. Education has dramatically improved my and my family’s

life, and I thank you.”

These are just two examples of students that have bene­fited

from interest-free student loans. There are many, many more and many,

many more to come. Our economy, our society, is better with each student

that graduates with a degree or diploma.

I’m proud to be part of a government that recognizes this and has

taken away the interest on B.C. student loans.

S. Gibson: A pleasure once again to rise in the peoples’ House here in our

province. I appreciate the motion. I’ll be responding to that in some

detail.

I was kind of reflecting on my experience as a post-secondary

instructor — at University of the Fraser Valley, at Trinity Western and

also as a contract instructor at Douglas College and the Justice

Institute — and realizing the significance to our young people of

earning an education today. We can’t underestimate that.

A privilege for me in our former government, from 2013 to 2017,

was to serve as a Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Education,

focusing on independent schools, and now with my colleague from

Vancouver–False Creek and previously South Surrey as a critic for

Advanced Education. I take this file very seriously, and I appreciate

the initiative today. I believe that whether it’s university, trade or

specialized program, students today need every opportunity to achieve

success. I might add my own experience, having been a student for a

number of years myself. I completed two undergrad degrees in 4½ years,

working almost full-time. I know what it feels like to make friends with

Chef Boyardee and Mr. Noodles.

The education that we are planning for our young people today is

something priceless. I even think about my little grandchildren. What

challenges will they have when they reach the age to enter

university?

Now, I appreciate the motion, and I appreciate the fact that this

government is getting behind interest-free student loans, but it seems

almost trivial compared to what is taking place in the general financial

milieu of this government — especially looking at ICBC and others. It’s

quite shocking, frankly. We’re hearing accounts of students that have to

literally put off their post-secondary education because of their car

insurance bills. I find it unbelievable that this government would not

take that seriously.

I want to take a moment for the record. I think it would be

fruitful to enumerate some of the positive impacts that we had on

education when we were government, and I was pleased to be there at that

time: cost-saving initiatives introduced that have benefited hundreds,

indeed thousands, of post-secondary students. During our time in

government, we allocated more than $1 billion in non-repayable grants

and loan reduction.

[11:10 a.m.]

As part of our Budget 2017, we reduced the student loan interest

rate nearly $11 million for that year and $17 million for each

succeeding year. We created financial aid programs benefiting numerous

students in adult upgrade, a strong focus on trades training, the B.C.

completion grant, loan reduction programs, the B.C. loan forgiveness

program for eligible students who commit to working in underserved

communities and the B.C. training and education program — $70 million

there to eligible children born before 2006 to help kick-start the

registered education savings plan.

We also developed a program for students on open textbooks. One of

my colleagues will be referring more to that. I can tell you, as an

instructor teaching university students, textbooks are a big deal.

They’re very expensive now. So the open textbook program, the first of

its kind in Canada, is exciting, and I was really excited about that,

just as a student. I wish that that program had existed when I was doing

my grad degrees.

The program reduces student education cost and allows the

instructor to customize the program, which is good. It’s flexible, which

makes it quite attractive. And 34,000 students have benefited by $3.9

million since it kicked in, in 2012.

These are good programs. I know the entire House will be

supportive of just acknowledging the value of those.

We have the single-parent employment program. I want to honour one

of my colleagues, who was minister at the time and now the MLA for

Surrey South, for initiating this. This initiative removes barriers to

employment for single parents to become productive working contributors

to society.

Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Member.

S. Gibson: Thank you very much, hon. Speaker. I appreciate the opportunity to

speak to this.

S. Malcolmson: I’m honoured to stand in this Legislature representing Nanaimo and

grateful for a summer of getting a lot of deep wisdom and good advice

from people back at home. I’m thankful to my awesome constituency staff,

Darcy and Pam, and everybody in the community that gave me advice,

including those who shared some of their stories to bring into today’s

debate this morning.

It’s feeling a bit back to school to be back here in this place.

Glad to see all my colleagues from both sides of the House. I want to

salute the Green Party leader for his news this morning of moving on, in

a way, and am thankful for his work.

On the back-to-school theme, I’m hearing real relief at home.

After 16 years of the old government making life very expensive for a

lot of people, looking after those at the top and not after students,

we’ve made real change and taken action for students to make life more

affordable.

I got a note from a former VIU student. He said: “Thank you for

taking the first step to address the issue of ballooning student debt in

our province. Removing interest on student loans means those who had to

borrow to get to school aren’t penalized for it with extra money that

they have to pay back. This was the right move, and I’m so happy you

have done it.” High interest fees on student loans put a really unfair

burden on students.

I was intrigued to hear the previous speaker, the Liberal speaker,

talk about the good things that the Liberals did for students. In fact,

they doubled basic undergraduate tuition fees. Graduate tuition almost

tripled. Between 2001 and 2006, it increased by 184 percent. And they

eliminated the grant program entirely.

The record is clear. It was very tough on people. Higher education

should be opening doors for people, not making it harder to get ahead,

and the saddling of student debt on our young people has made it really

tough.

Interest on B.C. student loans was among the highest in the

country, and a survey said that the average student debt in B.C. was

$34,000. Andrew, a VIU student, wrote to me. He said: “My student loan

payments were $980 a month, with roughly $330 of each payment going to

interest alone, and this does not include what my wife was

paying.”

That our spring budget eliminated student loan interest entirely

is a huge relief for students.

[11:15 a.m.]

Sarah wrote to me about this. She said: “As a single mother of two

kids, I needed a student loan to finance my education, and I graduated

with a $35,000 loan to repay. Interest on student loans equates to a

more expensive education for populations of students who cannot afford

to pay the tuition up front.”

I really want to emphasize the unfairness of this. Students from

low-income families pay significantly more for their education. Put

another way, students who have the means or the savings or the family

support or the connections to self-finance, pay less for their

education, for their college or university degree. That is not fair, and

we are starting to take steps to remediate that.

In contrast, the previous government ignored repeated calls to

take this action that we have taken. Even once we brought it in, the

current leader of the B.C. Liberals — who was once the Minister of

Advanced Education, so arguably has responsibility for the mess that we

put students in — stood in this House and said that he wouldn’t want to

eliminate interest on student loans, as people might get carried away

with debt.

He is still opposed to eliminating the interest on student loans.

If the B.C. Liberals were to return to power, B.C. Liberals would make

life more expensive again for students. And again, he had all kinds of

advice, including…. The leaders of many of B.C.’s institutions said:

“Please remove interest. It would make a huge difference.”

Our solution to remove interest on student loans was a campaign

commitment. It was the fair thing to do. It’s making life more

affordable. It was a direct response to what students asked us to do in

our communities and, to make post-secondary education more accessible,

is just one of the many steps we’ve taken.

At Vancouver Island University alone…. The tuition waiver, which

was born at VIU, has now been spread provincewide. Developing ecotourism

partnerships….

Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Member.

S. Malcolmson: There is much to do and much to cele­brate.

R. Sultan: The government has eliminated interest on student loans, which

will save students about $22 million annually. My initial impulse is to

say, with a banker-like harrumph, that the purpose of higher education

is to develop our knowledge workers of the future and an important

lesson they should learn is financial discipline.

Then I pick up Bloomberg on the weekend and see that the

Bundesbank of Germany, the bastion of discipline and prudence, appears

to be reluctantly embracing negative interest rates. That’s right. They

might pay you if you take their money. So all of my economic training

has been turned upside down, and free student loans are not as

unconventional as at one time they might have seemed.

So instead of railing against free money, let me suggest that this

initiative is, in reality, a mere slogan designed to camouflage this

government’s very weak — very weak — two-year track record in higher

education compared with our own 16 years of accomplishment and progress.

Let me cite three points to illustrate this.

One, on average, B.C. students, thanks to the tuition policy that

we endorsed for 16 years, paid less than one-third of the cost of the

post-secondary education. You might say that we had already cut the true

price by two-thirds, not requiring any loan at all because they weren’t

charged in the first place.

Secondly, seven public university campuses were added to the

public post-secondary system in our 16 years prior to 2017. In two

years, what has this government done? Well, they haven’t really

announced any new universities not already announced by us

previously.

[11:20 a.m.]

Third point. Projects initiated by our previous government have

been reannounced with great enthusiasm and pride by the minister, who

conveniently overlooks the fact that they were already in the works and

planned by another government.

For example, the $126 million energy systems engineering building

at Simon Fraser Surrey, including an incubator program — a great

accomplishment, but that happened to be our project. Secondly, the $122

million Emily Carr University of Art and Design redevelopment project.

The $48 million health sciences centre at Camosun. The $36 million Chip

and Shannon Wilson School of Design at Kwantlen Polytechnic. Northern

Lights College’s $33 million trades training centre. The $30 million

Industrial Training and Technology Centre at Thompson Rivers University

in Kamloops. The $22 million upgrades in the Spruce Building at

Kwantlen. The $20 million marine, automotive and trades complex

expansion at Vancouver Island University. The $18 million Silver King

campus at Selkirk College in Nelson. The $10 million trades training

facility at the College of the Rockies. The list goes on.

The minister has said: “I’m proud to be a part of a government

that is investing in students.” That is what she said in September 2018.

We are proud, too, of the minister’s endorsement of our accomplishments.

We look to more in the future. Perhaps we shall see some actual

innovation and progress initiated by this government than merely

repeating those of our own.

S. Chandra Herbert: I stand proudly in support of our government’s work to reduce and

actually eliminate tuition interest. It’s something that I must say, and

I’ve heard from a number of Liberal speakers trying to the change the

channel on what the motion is about, because they sat in government as

ministers, as folks like us, on the official opposition, united with

student leaders, faculty leaders and people from the entire educational

system to call for the elimination of interest rates on tuition fees,

and they refused.

I’m glad that they’re standing up to talk about past investments

the government has made on behalf of the people of British Columbia, but

I do want to suggest that instead of saying “us, the Liberals” or “us,

the New Democrats” paid for these new universities, we remember that

it’s actually the people of British Columbia.

We might want to pat ourselves on the back — and by goodness,

politicians are very good at that — but I would caution my friends on

the opposition side to remember that it wasn’t them that created

universities. It was the people of British Columbia. Indeed, it was

their advocacy that did that work, not so much themselves as builders

and master planners. Certainly, they didn’t get there on interest

rates.

I would say that in terms of interest rates…. For a time, I

remember that one of the things we argued was that it was easier to get

a car loan with a lower loan interest rate than students were paying in

British Columbia for their tuition fees. We argued again and again, and

my friends on the other side refused to act.

Now, it may be because of a problem of perspective. I understood

the member from Abbotsford argued that, well, he had it tough too, while

going through college and university. In the days that most of the

members of this Legislature attended universities and colleges, it was

possible to completely pay for your tuition fees through a minimum-wage

student job. I know folks have talked about how, oh, they worked two or

three jobs, and they crashed on couches, and so on.

Perspective blinds us sometimes, because costs have gone up

considerably. Indeed, the cost of tuition fees increased three times. It

tripled under the watch of the former B.C. Liberal government. I believe

it went from the lowest tuition fees in the country to some of the

highest. Housing costs, of course, it almost doesn’t need to be said,

under the former government, for young people…. Well, jeez, when you had

a home that used to cost $350,000 now selling for over $1.5 million,

rents that used to be $800 now $1,600 — those are problems that were

created over the last 16 years. Before that…. I can’t claim any

government is perfect. Indeed, everyone needs more work.

[11:25 a.m.]

I do say, though, that this is a matter of philosophy. Do we think

that people should be valued for when they get education? Do we think we

should make it easier for people to get education so that they can

participate in our communities and our economies?

I believe so, and the New Democrat government believes so, very

strongly. That’s why we eliminated the interest rate on tuition fees.

For people in my community, it was one of the most popular announcements

I think we’ve made. Certainly, I heard from a huge number of

constituents who said it will allow them to get better food for their

families. It will allow them to finish their schooling so that they can

actually get their degree and move into a more specialized field. They

were raising kids, trying to pay the rent and obviously finding that

challenging when you had the additional interest on the tuition fees

that they were having to deal with.

I know my friends on the opposition, the leader, felt that people

would get carried away — I think that was his phrase — by eliminating

the interest on tuition fees. I would say again that that’s a problem of

perspective. If you have a lot of money, maybe you’ll get carried away

because it doesn’t matter to you how much you spend. But if you don’t

have very much money and you’ve been raised in a family without a lot,

you watch every penny. You watch every dollar. You know how difficult

paying debt back will be because you’ve had to deal with it most of your

life. So that is a difference in perspective.

I think we need to value that there are people who don’t come from

money. There are many of our constituents who don’t come from money, who

don’t live in fancy houses, who don’t have fancy cars. That, in fact, is

most of British Columbia. But I guess if you come from entitlement,

sometimes you think of entitlement as just the average privilege for

everybody. That’s not the case. That’s why taking action like this

matters.

Again, there are many people in our province who feel voiceless,

who feel government never acts for them. I heard from them this time.

They felt that they were being acted for, that they were being heard and

that they were valued by government for once.

Certainly, they’ll come back at us again for other changes and

other things we need to do, but we need to continue to make life more

affordable for people in this province.

S. Cadieux: The importance of education can’t be understated. I’m not here to

argue against the elimination of student loans. In fact, our government

had started the reduction of those interest rates while we were in

government. But let’s think about this for a second.

We were always told that getting a university education will mean

a difference in your lifetime earnings of up to $1 million. Those were

numbers a long time ago, so I’m sure it’s much higher. So really,

education is an investment in one’s self and in one’s future. The

reduction in student loans, while it’s saving an average student $1,700,

is great news for that individual. It’s not saving the taxpayer those

interest payments. In fact, the taxpayer’s picking them up. So the

government’s now spending tens of millions of dollars to cover the costs

of that interest. The money is still owed, and the interest is still

accumulating.

Arguably, if someone goes to university and takes out loans to do

so, but then, at the end, is able to be employed — and employed at a

much higher rate than they would have been otherwise — they are, then,

arguably, in a better position to pay than they would have been if they

didn’t go to university. But again, I’m not arguing that this isn’t a

good move for students.

However, I’ve also been told by students repeatedly, every time I

met with any of the student union groups, that their preference would

actually have been for upfront student grants, something this government

has promised and not delivered. The elimination of the accumulation of

debt in the first place would actually be a much better way to deal with

those individuals who have the biggest challenge with going to

university and where we want to equalize and find a way for those

individuals to attend.

Now, again, I’m not arguing against helping students out. If this

is the way we do it, then I’m fine with that. But the member before me

talked about the problem of perspective, and I agree. It is a problem of

perspective. The reduction of student loan interest cannot be taken

alone in isolation as a wonderful gift to individuals, not when the

current government has increased 19 new taxes for British Columbians to

pay. Not when ICBC rates are steadily increasing and when young people

are seeing the most exorbitant jumps in that.

[11:30 a.m.]

Let’s not forget the new TransLink tax, the parking tax in the

Lower Mainland that is seeing students who are going to university pay

24 percent tax to park their car. For one young woman that I know, that

was an extra $300 she had to pay, just in that tax alone.

Arguably, I want to see people go to university. I want to see

people have that opportunity. We want to make that a reality for as many

people as possible, and frankly, there’s a track record of doing

so.

When VIU announced their tuition waiver program, I was the

Minister of Children and Families, and at that point in time I was

working with the other universities to get them to come on side and do

the same, because it was the right thing to do for kids from care. I

still agree that it’s the right thing to do for kids from care, and I

was supportive of the government’s expansion of that program.

While I was the minister and that program was initially announced,

we also increased the availability of other supports from grant programs

for those students, acknowledging that there are additional costs to

going to university, beyond tuition. Because I recognized that there

were a lot of single parents on welfare in our province who didn’t want

to be there, who wanted to be working but couldn’t get ahead, we

introduced the single-parent employment initiative. The single purpose

of that was to ensure that those individuals could have access to

education and training so that they could access the job

market.

As of March of 2017, I understand that more than 4,500 people have

participated in that program. That’s a program that allows single

parents on welfare to continue to receive their benefits, to receive

full child care while they go to school, to receive the tuition or costs

associated with receiving that education, to get employment and to then

keep their medical benefits and child care for a full other year while

they get employed in their new field. That is about providing

opportunity to British Columbians, and it’s a good way to support all

students.

B. Ma: Taking a little bit of a different tone here, I’d like to share a

story. In February of 2007, which was well into the B.C. Liberal

government’s reign, as vice-president internal for the Engineering

Undergraduate Society at the University of British Columbia and as a

councillor on the UBC Alma Mater Society, I had the great privilege of

joining many of my colleagues here in Victoria for our very first Lobby

Days event.

In addition to lobbying for — you’ll recognize this — mass transit

out to UBC and access to child care for students, we also lobbied for

what was then summed up best in the form of a cheer: “What do we want? A

reduction on the proportion of student tuition payment while

simultaneously increasing the quality of education.” “When do we want

it? Over the next three to five years.” Well, we thought that these were

very reasonable requests with very reasonable timelines. Off we went,

bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, to Victoria to lobby on behalf of students

for change. In digging through my files for information about that

fateful day — would you believe it? — I found my notes.

I met that day with six MLAs, starting with NDP members Charlie

Wyse, David Chudnovsky and the current hon. member for

Vancouver-Hastings, who now serves as the Minister for Social

Development and Poverty Reduction. Now, according to my notes, David

Chudnovsky told us that we needed to be less polite and tactful in our

approach in lobbying MLAs. “The government gave hundreds of millions of

dollars in tax cuts to the rich, while students remain poor,” he said,

“and you need to push harder and not be shy about demanding

change.”

My next session was with the B.C. Liberal member for Fort

Langley–Aldergrove, who was the Minister of Forests and Range and who

serves today as the member for Langley East. According to my notes, the

member was generally non-responsive to what he referred to as “our

politically suggestive advances” about how the absolute cost of

post-secondary education was too high for lower-income students to

bear.

My third session was with B.C. Liberal member Valerie Roddick, and

the next thing I participated in was my very first viewing of question

period, which I described in my notes as “a gong show.”

[11:35 a.m.]

Finally, the last

section of my notes was dedicated to a meeting I

had with the hon. member, who is still an hon. member today, for West

Vancouver–Capilano, who you heard speak earlier. My notes

read:

“This member was by far the most engaged in this issue of all the

MLAs we met today. He is an alumnus of the faculty of engineering at

UBC, as well as law at Harvard.

“His interest in the quality of education at UBC seems sincere. He

states, however, that he is not sympathetic to the debt incurred by a

student because a student will not bat an eye to drop $26,000 on a

low-end car, so why should they be batting their eyes at paying for

their education? This, of course” — again, from my notes — “may be a

statement that applies to students at Harvard, but it certainly does not

apply here at UBC, where the simple act of owning a vehicle, even an

$800 beater, is impressive, let alone a $26,000 one.

“The member is a very friendly and engaged person, but it was

frustrating throughout the meeting to speak with him. He consistently

attempts to compare Harvard with UBC, even though the distinction

between them was clearly made in the beginning of the session. No

promises by the member were made.”

I had the honour of serving as a student politician alongside

many, many brilliant people. I’ve avoided naming anyone in particular

because, frankly, 12 years is a long time to bring up what somebody did

in university. Though I found all of their work honourable and good, I

simply don’t know where they are in their lives, and I don’t know if

they’d appreciate being named now or not.

Some of these students — many of these students — went off on

their own to much greater things. Many others continue to be heavily

involved in politics, serving as staff and volunteers for the B.C. NDP,

for the federal Liberals, for the NDP, the Greens and, yes, even the

Conservatives.

The point is that we were people from all over the political

spectrum who came together on the issue, in 2007, of reducing the

financial and debt burden for post-secondary students. Despite our

partisan differences, we all saw the value in supporting young people in

pursuing higher education.

Today’s motion to support interest-free loans for students is a

small but important step in that direction. Can’t we all come together

again today?

J. Yap: An investment in knowledge pays the best interest. Higher

education is not the only way to success, but it certainly opens up

opportunities and prepares students for the competitive

workplace.

According to B.C.’s labour market outlook, 77 percent of future

jobs will require some form of post-secondary education. Statistics also

show that British Columbians with an undergraduate post-secondary degree

can expect to earn an additional $827,000 over their

lifetime.

In an era where artificial intelligence is taking over the human

workforce, 166,000 job openings over the next decade in B.C. will be

occupations with a high chance of being affected by automation. This is

why we have to plan for the jobs of tomorrow. To do that, we need to

equip the next generation with the best knowledge and skills. Education

is the passport to the future.

For students in B.C. already faced with a whole variety of

challenges, the NDP’s interest-free student loan is nothing more than

another slogan. We are all too familiar with this scenario. They talk

the talk but never walk the walk. They make the same announcement again

and again with no real action, putting on quite a show.

In contrast, our former B.C. Liberal government devel­oped

practical programs to help make costs more affordable for students and

make it easier for graduates to get out of debt faster. We put in place

grant and loan options, such as the B.C. loan forgiveness program, to

encourage people to work in the publicly funded health care facilities

in an underserved community in B.C. Since 2001, the B.C. Liberal

government disbursed approximately $4 billion in student financial

assistance to make education more accessible.

As a former Minister of Advanced Education, I also oversaw the

B.C. open textbook project, introduced in 2012 — the first

government-sponsored initiative of its kind in Canada. Our goal was to

provide flexible and affordable access to higher education resources by

making openly licensed textbooks available. With this goal in mind, we

committed $1 million to develop 40 open textbooks in popular first- and

second-year post-secondary subject areas, such as math, chemistry and

business.

[11:40 a.m.]

In the following year, we committed an additional $1 million for

more textbooks in skills training and technical programs. Such an open

education resources program has not only broken down barriers and

lowered costs for students but also offered flexibility for teachers to

adapt materials to the needs of different courses. This is what I call

making real progress and real changes to students.

Since 2012, nearly 34,000 students in British Columbia have saved

almost $3.9 million using free open textbooks. Around 275 faculty

members at 23 public post-secondary institutions in our province are

currently participating in this project, which we B.C. Liberals proudly

initiated.

These were our real, tangible actions, unlike the numerous

reannouncements made by the NDP’s Minister of Advanced Education. Those

were all projects initiated by our B.C. Liberal government, including

the two programs I just mentioned.

The other side of the House pretends to care about students, but

actions show who they really are. Since coming into power, they have

added 19 new or increased taxes. These taxes hurt average British

Columbians. It means parents; it means students.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

To truly help students, how about finding a solution to the worst

traffic bottleneck in British Columbia, the George Massey Tunnel, so

that students can attend school on time instead of being stuck for an

hour or two every day in this traffic nightmare? When a man repeats a

promise again and again, he means to fail you.

We are counting how many times the NDP will make the same

announcement before carrying it out. So far, it seems like that will

never come, only leaving students and others deeply

disappointed.

J. Brar: I’m really pleased to rise in this House today to support the

motion introduced by the member for Port Moody–Coquitlam, asking this

House to unanimously support interest-free student loans in the province

of British Columbia.

I have two children going through the education system, and I

completely understand this. I also want to make it very clear that this

is a motion about student loans, not about the Massey Tunnel. Education

is the greatest gift that we can give to our children. Accessible and

affordable education is a great source of opportunity for everyone in

our province.

We believe that access to education should never depend on how

much money your parents make. If you have the grades and the drive to

study hard, you should be able to get the education you want. The

reality is this. The B.C. Liberals don’t believe in accessible and

affordable education. That’s why they ignored the call from students for

16 years.

Their interest rates on student loans were too high. As a result,

the average student with debt owes about $27,000 at the end of an

undergraduate degree. And a student who has to borrow to pay for their

education will end up paying over $10,000 more than a student who is

lucky enough to be able to graduate without taking on debt. That’s not

fair. It puts an unfair burden on our students, and that sets our young

people up to fail.

As of March 31, 2018, approximately 200,000 people had student

loans worth a total of $1.2 billion in this province. Clearly, the

previous government ignored calls from students, and the interest rates

on student loans were too high for 16 long years.

It’s interesting to note the B.C. Liberals gave away billions of

dollars in tax breaks to the wealthy and big corporations, and they

chose not to give any breaks to our students. The interest rates on

student loans in B.C. were the highest in Canada under their watch. It

was prime plus 2.5 percent.

We, the members on this side, are committed to removing interest

on B.C. student loans, and this will improve the lives of British

Columbians by making life more affordable. Budget 2019 is making life

better for people and opening the door to opportunity so everyone can

reach their full potential.

[11:45 a.m.]

Our government listened to students and delivered on its mandate

to eliminate interest on B.C. student loans, effective February 19,

2019. As of February 19, 2019, all B.C. student loans stopped

accumulating interest. As a result, 200,000 students will save about $22

million in interest payments on these loans in 2019-20.

A typical undergraduate student has $11,200 in B.C. student loans

and $28,000 in total student loan debt, including both federal and

provincial loans. Eliminating interest on the provincial debt will save

this undergraduate about $2,300 over the ten-year repayment period. With

this decision, we are helping young people and new families get off to a

good start in their life. Making life more affordable means more young

people can feel confident about putting down roots and building a life

right here in the province of British Columbia.

I would like to conclude with a quote from a parent named Albert

Seinen, who made the following remarks with regard to the interest-free

loans. “I have three daughters, two of whom, for sure, want to go to

university. We help out but cannot afford their tuition and our own cost

of living. They are significantly worried about debt and how they can

afford to go. They will go a long way to help them. It will also send a

personal message that our country values its citizens and is going to

support them. I’m grateful to be part of this.”

I fully support this motion to make student loans interest-free,

and I hope the members on the other side finally get the answer to this

and will also support this motion.

J. Thornthwaite: Thank you for the opportunity to speak today in support of this

motion: “Be it resolved that this House unanimously supports

interest-free student loans in British Columbia.”

Higher education has proven to be one of the greatest returns for

students. Whether it’s a diploma, trade or degree, students can expect

to earn an additional $827,000 over their lifetime, yet many students

struggle in British Columbia to be able to afford a post-secondary

education. Eliminating interest on student loans is one step, but this

government promised affordability, especially to young people, yet

little action has been taken to effect real change towards the goal of

keeping more money in the pockets of students.

One of the biggest issues for students in my riding is affordable

student housing for those that attend Capilano University. It is

challenging for anyone to find affordable housing on the North Shore,

let alone students. Since the NDP government took power in 2017, overall

rent hikes have been approved to 9.37 percent — certainly not making

life more affordable.

Housing counts as one of the largest expenses for students. So

does transportation. The number one issue for my constituents is

transportation. Being able to effectively use the transit system,

especially from the North Shore, is often not easy. My daughter, for

instance, is attending UBC and faces a difficult decision, as there is

no fast and effective way to get from the east of Seymour to UBC — a

journey that can take up to two hours using transit. She uses her

vehicle. Yet insurance costs and rising gas prices are crippling for

many young people.

Earlier this summer I called on TransLink to have an express bus

from Phibbs Exchange directly to UBC, just like they have them from West

Van. But a real investment in rapid transit is essential for students

trying to get to post-secondary institutions in the Lower Mainland and

all of the 12,000 students who are enrolled in Capilano University that

must commute to the North Shore.

Almost daily, commuters in my riding face crippling gridlock. As a

result, students and faculty are often late for class. Investing in

rapid transit, as I have long advocated for, would not only save

students time but also help them get out of their cars.

I recognize there is a study going on right now about a fixed link

to the North Shore. Unfortunately, we don’t know the terms of reference,

nor if there will be consideration of SkyTrain around the Second

Narrows. I will plead again: don’t forget about the district of North

Vancouver, and don’t forget about the Second Narrows and a connection to

Phibbs Exchange.

[11:50 a.m.]

However, the most worrying expense for students currently is car

insurance. Under the NDP, students are now finding it more unaffordable

to pay for their car insurance than the cost of the car in the first

place. We’ve heard numerous instances in the news. My other daughter,

who attends Capilano University, is being forced to sell her car, which

she only purchased a year ago, instead of renewing her insurance later

this year. The cost is going to be too unaffordable for her because she

needs the car for work. She’s not alone. Many teens are facing the same

dire situation.

Plus ICBC now levies an additional $130 to $230 per policy if a

learner driver wants to use their parents’ vehicle, for example. No

other insurance in Canada charges these fees, and rates do not typically

increase by adding a learner driver to a policy.

Students are paying through the nose for higher costs of living in

British Columbia. They’re struggling to afford, or even find, housing.

Transportation costs are going up, and new drivers are facing massive

increases in their ICBC premiums, as are their parents. While it would

be a useful step for students to hold interest-free loans, I think there

are much bigger investments that need to be made in order to make life

more affordable for all students.

J. Routledge: I rise in support of the motion: “Be it resolved that this House

unanimously supports interest-free student loans in British

Columbia.”

I’m proud of our government for having taken first steps to making

post-secondary education affordable again. I say again, because it was

when my generation was at that “wacky” age the Leader of the Opposition

reminisces about that post-secondary education was affordable. Tuition

cost me $600 a year. I paid less than $100 a month for my share of a

three-bedroom apartment in downtown Toronto.

I, too, was the first person in my family to go to university. I

had to work every summer so that I could go back to school in the fall,

and there were lots of summer jobs in those days. We usually landed

something the first day we went looking, but they were minimum-wage

jobs, like in stores and restaurants. Now, I did notice that a lot of

the boys in my circle tended to get summer jobs in construction and were

paid a lot more than minimum wage. At that time, young women weren’t yet

welcome on construction sites. Now that, I thought, was wacky, and it

turned me into a feminist.

I worked every summer, but I still needed student loans to make

ends meet during the school year. What’s more, I was able to pay off my

student loan within one year of graduating, because in those days, a

university degree was the ticket to a good job, a ticket that was still

being honoured by the postwar social contract — a social contract that

promised each generation we would live better, more secure lives than

did our parents. That is, until the present generation.

Now, I’ve spoken in this House before about the previous

government’s infatuation with neo-liberalism and their obsession with

deregulation, privatization and program cuts that so deeply deepened

inequality and unravelled social cohesion in this province. Today, I’d

like to talk about one way that legacy is playing out in my

community.

Burnaby North is home to the British Columbia Institute of

Technology. BCIT trains experts, innovators and professionals who shape

our economy. Just last week, BCIT was the first Canadian post-secondary

institution to win the Envision Gold award for sustainable

infrastructure. Apprentices in the trades program who worked on the

winning project clocked 6,900 hours.

Students in forensic nursing learn how to see the signs of human

trafficking. Engineering students anticipate the future by working on

such things as highway design that will be ready for driverless cars.

The centre for rehabilitation engineering has developed technology that

can tell when an injured police dog is ready to go back to fighting

crime, because a working dog can’t tell them when they’re

healed.

[11:55 a.m.]

These are just a few examples of the important work going on at

BCIT every day. Think of all the life-saving, world-saving ideas yet to

be researched, tested and put into practice, but only if students can

afford to continue with their studies.

Student loans make post-secondary education possible for many

students. Like Sam says, in their own words: “When I started at BCIT, I

was working at the same time to pay for all the bills. I ended up

performing at an average level and wasn’t able to participate in the

activities that were providing opportunities to other students. But once

I got a student loan, my grades improved, and I was able to participate

in extracurricular activities that increased my confidence.”

As Maria said: “Student loans are such a gift for those of us who

don’t have extra money for university. But with interest, they can

become an unmanageable burden so quickly.”

Interest on student loans is a burden students shouldn’t be

expected to bear. My generation found that post-secondary education was

a great equalizer. It opened doors we would never have been able to walk

through without the assistance of student loans. Interest on student

loans slams those doors in the faces of students today — students who

just might be the future Jonas Salk, who invented the vaccine against

polio that we heard about earlier today; or Josephine Cochrane, who

invented the dishwasher; or Marie Curie, without whom radiation

treatments to fight cancer wouldn’t be possible.

Let’s make student loans interest-free.

J. Routledge moved adjournment of debate.

Motion approved.

Hon. C. James moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1:30 this afternoon.

The House adjourned at 11:57 a.m.

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Copyright © 2019: British Columbia

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