role="main" class="main-container container js-quickedit-main-content" id="main-content">

May 31, 2016

41st Parliament, 1st Session

< Previous sitting day

Next sitting day >

Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2016-May-31 (PDF)

L179 - Tue 31 May 2016 / Mar 31 mai 2016

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Tuesday 31 May 2016 Mardi 31 mai 2016

Waste-Free Ontario Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 favorisant un Ontario sans déchets

Introduction of Visitors

Legislative pages

Visitors

Michael Dietsch

Oral Questions

Health care funding

Climate change

Energy policies

Hospital funding

Government accountability

Government accountability

Truth and Reconciliation Commission

Road safety

Aboriginal children and youth

Youth services

Autism treatment

Mercury poisoning

Beef producers

Milton courthouse

Visitors

Deferred Votes

Time allocation

Introduction of Visitors

Members’ Statements

World No Tobacco Day

Poverty

Lali Vij

Language training

Lyme disease

Session Toronto Craft Beer Festival

Special Olympics Ontario Provincial Spring Games

Smoke-free Ontario / Un Ontario sans fumée

Sikh martyrdom parade

Annual report, Environmental Commissioner of Ontario

Reports by Committees

Standing Committee on Government Agencies

Standing Committee on Social Policy

Standing Committee on General Government

Introduction of Bills

Financial Accountability Officer Amendment Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant la

Loi sur le directeur de la responsabilité financière

Statements by the Ministry and Responses

Sexual violence and harassment / La violence et le harcèlement à caractère sexuel

Petitions

Government services

Crown attorneys

Men’s health

Children’s immunization program

Bereavement leave

Lung health

Energy policies

Accident benefits

Water fluoridation

Special-needs students

Lyme disease

Lung health

Orders of the Day

Supporting Ontario’s Trails Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur le soutien aux sentiers de l’Ontario

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs

Hon. Jeff Leal: First of all, I want to wish my daughter Shanae all the very best in OFSAA tennis this morning out in Scarborough.

It’s with great pleasure that we want to move forward with government order G151.

Waste-Free Ontario Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 favorisant un Ontario sans déchets

Resuming the debate adjourned on May 19, 2016, on the motion for third reading of the following bill:

Bill 151,

An Act to enact the Resource Recovery and Circular Economy Act, 2016 and the Waste Diversion Transition Act, 2016 and to repeal the Waste Diversion Act, 2002 / Projet de loi 151, Loi édictant la Loi de 2016 sur la récupération des ressources et l’économie circulaire et la Loi transitoire de 2016 sur le réacheminement des déchets et abrogeant la Loi de 2002 sur le réacheminement des déchets.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): We have a point of order.

Mr. Steve Clark: Is there a quorum, Speaker?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Do we have a quorum?

The Deputy Clerk (Mr. Todd Decker): A quorum is present.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): We have a quorum.

Further debate?

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: Thank you, Speaker. I thought you were standing up on another matter there.

I am here to debate third reading of Bill 151, and I rise today to discuss a very important issue, because the environment is a huge piece of the way we live. Yesterday, we heard from indigenous peoples on how important Mother Earth is to our whole circular existence when it comes to human beings and the health of how we treat each other. If we don’t have our environment, we actually aren’t kind to each other, as described yesterday, so I’m pleased to stand here today to discuss Bill 151, the Waste-Free Ontario Act, and its third reading here in this chamber.

I believe environmental governance at all levels is a critical factor in trying to support environmental sustainability, with the ultimate goal of achieving sustainable development, consumption and production. The waste we generate plays a critical role in today’s society and economy. At the same time, it has major impacts on our environment and our health. Many forms of waste can and do become hazardous and pose dangers to our lives, to nature and to the communities we live in.

Waste and waste diversion are impacted by all three levels of government—federal, provincial and municipal—but we know that waste management in Canada is primarily regulated at the provincial level. Every day, Ontario generates more than 33,000 tonnes of waste. That’s more than 900 kilograms per person each year. This is a massive problem, yet we continue to send waste materials, which can leak contaminants, to disposal sites and landfills. This typically requires more energy, resources and new materials than reusing or recycling does.

Most important are hazardous wastes, which are primarily generated by industrial and manufacturing processes, as they need special handling to minimize their effects on the environment and our health.

In Ontario, historically, waste-related issues have been regulated by the Environmental Protection Act, the Environmental Assessment Act and the Waste Diversion Act. Bill 151, the Waste-Free Ontario Act, 2016, would now replace the Waste Diversion Act by enacting the Resource Recovery and Circular Economy Act.

The title and definition of “resource recovery and circular economy” have deliberately been left out of the act. We all know that this is a standard protocol when proposing legislation: to ensure that there are clearly worded

definitions included. This ensures that there is no vagueness around the rights and responsibilities, and jurisdiction, yet it would seem that this government is bent on keeping this bill worded as vaguely as possible to prevent real accountability and responsibility.

I believe it was my colleague from Bramalea–Gore–Malton, in his comments on second reading, who rightfully called this bill enabling legislation. We have seen this behaviour a number of times from this government, where they create legislation around a general idea with built-in loopholes to ensure that they can’t be held accountable or be transparent in case things don’t play out as expected. This is a highly problematic approach to governance, yet it has become the new Liberal standard: Title it progressively, write it vaguely and stand back and see what happens so they can deny responsibility.

Unfortunately, it’s the people of Ontario who are left dealing with the problems created by this approach. They pay the price each and every time this House doesn’t act with due diligence. I know that my colleagues tried to address this concern through committee, but few of our amendments were accepted by the government. But that’s the job we are here for.

We are here to punish this government—excuse me—we are here to punish this government, but we are here more so to push this government to do the right thing for everyone. It’s kind of funny how “push” turns unconsciously into “punish,” isn’t it? Not only for themselves, but primarily we focused on cleaning up the ambiguous language they were hiding behind, but we had little luck with our efforts.

Local communities across the province need us to take the lead on this file. I spoke about the challenges with the landfill in my hometown of London. We have a large one, and since it was put in place, we have struggled with the implementation and adoption of recycling programs. Our green bin and composting programs have faced uphill battles, because it’s easier and cheaper to dump our waste instead of reducing or reusing it.

We are on the path that leads away from sustainable consumption and production. We need to move beyond easy answers and start thinking about how best to promote resource and energy efficiency, sustainable infrastructure and providing access to basic services, green and decent jobs, and a better quality of life for all.

When we’re talking about the environment, it’s not just the moment. Environment is about the future and future generations, and the health of our Mother Earth. That’s what we’re doing here today: We’re setting the tone; we’re setting things in motion for the future of Mother Earth, the future of our children and what they inherit from us as legislators. If we integrate sustainable consumption and production into our efforts, we reduce future economic, environmental and social costs, strengthen our economy and economic competitiveness, and reduce poverty.

We also need to change the way we engage with municipalities. They need to be treated as equal partners at the table. Municipalities made crystal clear what they needed from us to help manage waste, recycling and reuse programs across the province. They were very vocal about what they needed in the bill. It was pretty clear, in bringing this bill forward and moving it through the legislative process, that full respect had to be accorded to municipalities, and that the bill needed changes to ensure that they were treated properly.

Speaker, the Association of Municipalities of Ontario asked this government to hear them, to understand the reality of their experience. As the folks who are running the trucks and transfer stations, and the people collecting the waste—whether it’s sent for disposal or recycling—they made an entirely reasonable request. What is not reasonable is ignoring their concerns, and not being prepared to understand their front-line experiences and challenges.

Frankly, this was a huge missed opportunity to demonstrate to municipalities across Ontario that we are listening, that we understand how hard things are for them and that we must work together to find solutions. But most importantly, it would let them know that the respect we have for them goes beyond lip service. This government has to know that it’s better to have a willing partner than an obstinate one. If any waste program is going to work in Ontario, we need everyone willing to do their part and to be ready, willing and eager to offer solutions.

They asked for amendments to

section 11 of the Waste Diversion Transition Act and action on fair funding, but again were rebuffed. They needed your help regarding payments to municipalities from producers for the operation of the Blue Box Program. The current language is identical to a

section in the Waste Diversion Act. If you recall, this same

section was the subject of arbitration in 2014 between AMO and the city of Toronto and Stewardship Ontario.

Despite the municipal award, stewards continue to dispute the

interpretation of this section. AMO further implored the standing committee to amend the language to clearly state that municipal governments should be paid the applicable percentage by producers for blue box services, based on the verified net cost of the program as determined through WDO.

We respectfully ask that you make sure that the

section 11 language of the transition act is crystal clear and non-disputable by parties, when you report back to the Legislature. It’s an ongoing concern, and they voiced the different reasons why this should be clear, so that there is not this ambiguity around these sections.

As you can see, Speaker, once again they were reminded that they indeed are not real partners in the eyes of this government. We continue to offer Ontario municipalities little to no options. They end up in the unfortunate position where they feel they must take legal action. It is entirely unfair to put our municipalities in a situation where the only action they can take is to leverage their homeowners’ property taxes in legal disputes. All of this means that we are moving further and further away from our goals of sustainable consumption.

As far back as 1992, the UN Conference on Environment and Development, held in Rio de Janeiro, recognized sustainable consumption and production as an overarching theme to link environmental and developmental challenges. Agenda 21 states that “the major cause of the continued deterioration of the global environment is the unsustainable pattern of consumption and production.” Speaker, that is something we also need to address when speaking to education and educating consumers—consumers of the environment. We need to talk about recycling much more than we have and about the compost issue as well.

I know that London talked about a green bin program. They’re not implementing it at this point, but it is an ongoing concern. People have composters in their backyards, kind of like a balance between not having the green bin. But more and more we should be composting our waste. There’s so much we can compost that’s left behind. When we talk about sustainability and consumption, the piece that I think we really also need to focus on is the green bin and the composting of vegetation. I think that’s a very strong piece in making a healthy way for people to reduce their waste.

Back to the UN meeting, Speaker, 10 years after, leaders from around the world signed the Johannesburg Plan of Implementation of the World Summit on Sustainable Development.

Chapter 3 of the plan was devoted to changing unsustainable patterns of consumption and production, and declared “that fundamental changes in the way societies produce and consume are indispensable for achieving global sustainable development ... all countries should promote sustainable consumption and production patterns....” I think that is exactly what we should be talking about: all countries, all provinces, all cities. We need to make that advancement now. We can’t continue to put it off. The environment can’t wait.

Other countries around the world recognize that fundamental changes in the way societies consume and produce are indispensable for achieving global sustainable development. They adopted the 10-year framework of programs on sustainable consumption and production patterns.

But sadly, Speaker, we are nowhere near those levels of understanding and participation. These are bold ideas that transform how societies conceive of not merely their waste but their production. How unfortunate that in this House, we can’t even hear the needs of our municipality partners or recognize that producers need to accept a greater level of responsibility.

When we talk about the environment, there’s the consumer and there’s the producer, and there’s a government: Those three chains. Everyone has a role to play. We need to define and have clarity around the roles of producers. The more they produce heavier packaging, the more our landfills are being used. If we can encourage less packaging and even responsibility at the end of that—if there’s a cost associated with the more packaging you have for a product, then there should be a cost to that as well for disposal at the end. Maybe that would be an incentive for producers to be more environmentally conscious when they talk about what they put—packaging around their items, their goods.

Producers have the best opportunity to redesign products and systems to eliminate waste. Assigning them full responsibility for the end-of-life management of their products is consistent with that principle.

It was my colleague from Toronto–Danforth, who has spoken very passionately on this bill, who suggested a provision in the act that allows municipalities to be the beneficiary of any penalties or fines for non-compliance. Unfortunately, it wasn’t successful, as the government voted against that important amendment. We did fight at committee. I know the member from Toronto–Danforth is very passionate about the environment. He is our critic for the environment and energy. This government, during committee, hasn’t taken many of the amendments the NDP has proposed, and the proposals that we make actually make bills stronger.

I do have to give the government some credit. They did take some of our amendments and refurbished them for that purpose, but it is disappointing that they don’t take them as they’re presented, because they are strong amendments to these acts.

Frankly, it’s very disappointing to know that if a producer ignores the law and frustrates it, flouts it, and the municipalities get stuck with the cost, then if there are penalties applied to that producer for their failure to comply with the law, it’s the municipalities who pay the price. We have to have the responsibility borne on the producers. That’s the vital flaw in this bill, and I am concerned about how that will play out in terms of costs to municipalities.

I know that my hometown of London is already struggling with the costs, and now that they are forced to take on this extra burden, it will be highly problematic for that. Again, I think the municipalities need to be treated fairly. They need to have access to these payments that are made when producers ignore the law. Municipalities, since I’ve been elected, have told us how they’ve been struggling financially, and to put this extra piece back to them as a responsibility is wholly unfair.

Lastly, I want to address the role of the ministry in enforcement and compliance. The Canadian Environmental Law Association came to committee and delivered remarks saying, “We’re ... recommending that compliance and enforcement should not be carried out by the new authority under Bill 151. Instead, Bill 151 should be amended to ensure that compliance and enforcement activities are conducted by the Ministry of the Environment and Climate Change.”

Another quote continues: “In our view, Mr. Chairman, environmental enforcement is a core government function that should not be downloaded or outsourced to a third-party entity, especially one that lacks the enforcement track record, experience and resources of the ministry. Simply put, there is no evidence that delegating enforcement to the authority will result in better or more timely or more effective enforcement of the regulatory standards under Bill 151.”

That would be another concern that’s been brought forward at committee. It’s very valid, because if you have legislation to do good—to do better—for the people of Ontario, but the enforcement piece isn’t there, it’s a very weak bill.

There are concerns about the

definitions, that they weren’t strong enough. There are concerns about enforcement. And there are concerns about putting costs back on municipalities that producers should be responsible for when they ultimately produce that excessive waste.

But saying that, this bill is something we are going to support. Environmental bills are very important to our society today. I think the new approach to the environment is about reduce, reuse and recycle. This is in sync with that philosophy to some degree.

I’m glad I had the opportunity to give our comments on this bill and some of the things that we were concerned about.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Questions and comments?

Hon. Bill Mauro: I want to thank the member for her observations on Bill 151, the Waste-Free Ontario Act, and I want to thank our minister for bringing this piece of legislation forward.

Perhaps for those who are watching at home, some might wonder, “At what point does this type of legislation become unnecessary?” We’ve been talking about waste diversion in the province for a very long time, and while a great deal has been accomplished, I think what this legislation speaks to is the fact that there is still more work that needs to be done.

For me, personally, I think about it from my own personal experiences, remembering where we were maybe 15 or 20 years ago and where we’ve come—but also the work yet to be done.

I can think back to my time on municipal council in the city of Thunder Bay as a ward councillor representing Northwood ward for six years, from 1997 to 2003. One of the most contentious things that we dealt with during my term in those six years around waste diversion—just around the time a Blue Box Program was being started in the city of Thunder Bay—was how much garbage a person could put out on the curbside every week, if you can imagine. At that time in 1997, when I was elected, it was unlimited. You could put out 25, 30 bags, 30 cans; it didn’t matter.

I can remember when, as a council, we undertook that particular reduction. We first suggested going down to five and then down to three, and you would have thought the sky was falling. But ultimately that change was made and people came to accept it, and much waste was being diverted from the landfill.

Another great example would be what we’re doing in the city of Thunder Bay with methane capture from our landfill, capturing that methane. I would say that project was supported with financing from the province of Ontario, from our government, to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and turn that methane into electrical production to help the city of Thunder Bay.

There’s work that’s going on. There’s more to be done. Much has been accomplished but there’s still further to go.

I thank you for the time.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions?

Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: I’m pleased to add my voice to the debate on Bill 151 today. If anyone was tuned in to the evolution of how Bill 151 came to be, we have to recognize, and the government needs to recognize, that Bill 151 is a marked improvement over its predecessor, Bill 91. Some may say, why was it improved? Because it embraced so much of what the PC Party of Ontario brought forward in opposition to Bill 91. They learned from their mistakes with Bill 91 and they took good steps forward in this version of the Waste-Free Ontario Act.

In particular, I want to give my appreciation to the folks whom we worked with in terms of our briefings and in terms of bringing forward an environment where they were open to ideas. To that end, they were open to some amendments that strengthened Bill 151. It bodes well because, through the PC amendments in committee, we ensured that there is a finite timeline in which the ministry has to report back to the House with regard to eliminating eco-taxes. We don’t need any more taxes in Ontario. We’re pleased that the government agreed to identify a timeline in which they would phase out eco-taxes.

But as I said committee, we do reserve the right to watch over how this particular legislation evolves, because there are some worrisome parts. As we heard from stakeholders, we’re concerned about how the authority is going to come forward. The minister selecting five individuals who then, in turn, bring on six more to the entire authority is a red flag, as is bureaucratic waste like the waste cops that this bill is going to introduce.

All in all, it’s a marked improvement and we will be supporting it.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments?

Mr. Michael Mantha: I’m happy to be here this morning listening to the words of the member for London–Fanshawe, who put a very big focus on how this will affect municipalities and some of the questions that they had.

I do want to give a shout-out to one of the communities in my area, Goulais River, a small community north of Sault Ste. Marie, that has taken the initiative in their community. The local services board has taken a huge step forward. They had a recycling program that was there and, unfortunately, the government funding that had been available to them to initiate this ran out. They went through the entire process of engaging with the community to have their recycling program reinstated, and they have. Congratulations to them. I know there are other communities in the Sault North area, such as Searchmont, that are going to be looking at it as well.

The member brought up some very good points in regard to how this affects the municipalities and some of the concerns they had. Here are a couple of concerns from AMO that they had:

—the lack of recognition of the integrated municipal waste system responsibilities now and in the future;

—no formal role for municipalities at the decision-making table in a future state impacts our waste system;

—language of the WDTA simply continues long-standing conflicts between municipalities, governments and stewards;

—no formal role for municipal governments in the transition of existing waste diversion programs;

—no recognition of full producer responsibility for designated products/packaging, no matter where the waste stream comes from; and

—last but not least, no principles for setting producer responsibility targets are outlined in this act.

Have some of those been addressed through the amendments and discussions on behalf of municipalities? I hate to tell you, Mr. Speaker, but no, they were not. The struggle will still continue and the downloading will be passed on to municipalities. This is definitely not something that we need.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments?

Mrs. Amrit Mangat: I’m pleased to speak to Bill 151. This proposed legislation would help us divert more waste from landfills. As our Minister of Natural Resources and Forestry said, it would also help us reach our greenhouse gas reduction targets in the waste sector and it would boost the economy by creating the conditions to create more jobs, recover more resources and, as the Conference Board of Canada said, if we recover only 60% of the material, it would add $1.5 billion to our GDP.

In short, I would like to say that this proposed legislation is good for the environment, it’s good for our economy, it’s good for the people of Ontario, it’s good for municipalities, and it’s good for the taxpayers. I’m very pleased to support this bill and I look forward to the speedy passage of this bill.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Back to the member from London–Fanshawe for final comments.

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: I would like to thank the Minister of Natural Resources and Forestry, the member from Huron–Bruce, the wonderful member from Algoma–Manitoulin and the member from Mississauga–Brampton South. We’re all in agreement here. I think most people you can talk to are in agreement about the environment and that the environment is linked to our survival as people.

There’s no disputing that finally this government has taken some action. This bill discussion started back in 2008. It is a long overdue bill and there are some good things in it; there’s no disputing that. The member from Huron–Bruce commented on the evolution of the environment and where this bill is today. It’s definitely a supportable bill. We voiced our concerns about the responsibilities that have been, like the member from Algoma–Manitoulin said, downloaded to the municipalities.

I wish those partnerships were stronger when it comes to the environment, because you would have much more vigorous participation and energy in getting the environment to where it needs to go. People would act quicker and they would act with positive attitudes. Always, when there are costs involved, people are trying to cut corners.

Environment: For sure we need to move forward. Is this a good bill? Yes, there’s definitely an improvement. We look forward to supporting the bill. I look forward 10, 15 years, as time evolves, to this bill evolving with the environment so we can continue to make improvements for the health of our society.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further debate?

Mr. John Yakabuski: It’s a pleasure for me to join the debate this morning—surprisingly. I was waiting for a member from the opposite side to stand. But perhaps they have said all that needs to be said on the part of the government on this particular bill.

I want to start out by saying what a great job—

Hon. Michael Coteau: Maybe the member should realize that it wasn’t us. It was your turn.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Oh, is that right?

Hon. Michael Coteau: Yes.

Mr. John Yakabuski: It goes from the NDP to the Liberals, I say to the minister. So would you like to correct your record?

Did you just get elected here, Michael? Sorry, I wanted you to know the procedure. It goes NDP—

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Since there seems to be a little bit of confusion, first of all, I just want to remind all members in the House that when referring to members, you refer to them by either their ministerial title or by their riding.

Secondly, the first call did go out for further debate. Looking towards the government side, there was no one standing. It then went over to the official opposition side.

You have the floor, sir. Please continue.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Thank you for that clarification, Speaker. I’m sure the Minister of Culture will be pleased to have that clarification as well.

Anyway, first of all, I want to start out by—boy, they get sensitive over there right away. But I want to say we’re going to support the bill.

Hon. Michael Coteau: Oh.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Yes, we’re going to support the bill. I want to thank my colleague from Huron–Bruce, Lisa Thompson, for doing such a tremendous job as our environmental critic, but also in helping to shepherd this bill through the House and making us as a caucus understand its ramifications much better than we would have otherwise. One of the reasons that we’ve decided we’re going to support this bill is that it is a significant improvement over its previous iteration that came to this House in Bill 91.

The government learned, and one of the things it learned—they actually incorporated a significant amount of the input from the PC caucus, partly through our former environment critic, Michael Harris from Kitchener-Conestoga, and also the continued work of our member from Huron–Bruce.

That is a positive sign that maybe there is a glimmer of hope in this Legislature on the part of the Liberals actually starting to take notice and maybe listen a little bit to the opposition.

But I say just a glimmer of hope, because every time I think there is this positive sign, I have my hopes dashed because of some other action on the part of the government, such as a time allocation motion where they bring the guillotine down on debate, or some other kind of overbearing action on the part of a majority that continues to flex its muscles at the expense of the minority, and certainly at the expense of the people of the province of Ontario. But as I say, I’m an optimistic fellow, and I’m always hopeful that we’ll find a better way of operating in this House.

Speaking of this House, it’s interesting. I was at the 70th anniversary of the Rotary Club in Eganville on Sunday.

Hon. James J. Bradley: Eganville.

Mr. John Yakabuski: The great town of Eganville—village of Eganville, part of the now municipality of Bonnechere Valley.

Hon. James J. Bradley: Is Rooney’s gone?

Mr. John Yakabuski: Rooney’s is gone, I say to the former Minister of the Environment from St. Catharines and now the Minister without Portfolio, but not without opinion. I say to the former Minister of the Environment, yes, Rooney’s hotel burned down several years ago. I certainly—

Hon. James J. Bradley: Were you ever there?

Mr. John Yakabuski: I was definitely at Rooney’s hotel more than once. But we’re off the subject. Back to Eganville: The master of ceremonies introduces me, and he’s talking about the fact that I work here at Queen’s Park. He says, “I want to show Mr. Yakabuski a map of the central part of Toronto from”—it was 18-something, prior to Confederation. He shows the people where Queen’s Park is and everything.

Then he says, “Now I want to give you a magnified version,” and it shows where the caption is right next to the Legislative Assembly building, where it would be: “temporary lunatic asylum.” That’s part of what was here on the grounds of Queen’s Park at that time. I told the crowd that the only thing that has changed is that it has now become permanent. That’s what it seems like here in this chamber sometimes, in the context of debate.

Hon. Michael Coteau: That is so awful.

Mr. John Yakabuski: It’s terrible, yes.

It’s become permanent, and I had to get back to work, head back on Sunday evening because my room was waiting.

But back to the bill: a little history on waste diversion, which today is probably one of the most significant—certainly for rural municipalities like ours, where we don’t have big budgets, it’s become one of the biggest budget line items for the municipality, the handling of waste.

I remember when we moved to the house that I live in today. When we moved there in 1960, it was quite a different world.

Mr. Steve Clark: That’s the year I was born.

Mr. John Yakabuski: That’s the year that my colleague from Leeds–Grenville was born. You mean I’m older than you?

So in 1960, garbage pickup was only beginning in the village of Barry’s Bay, but when you went down behind our home to the ravine—there was a ravine—there was all kinds of stuff down in that ravine: old cans and wine bottles and all kinds of that kind of stuff. People didn’t even go to the—they didn’t even have a landfill. Everybody had a landfill in their backyard. That’s where some of that stuff was actually just thrown, down over the edge of the ravine.

How things have changed. I can’t get it figured out. We’ve got a chart in the house today as to what’s going to be picked up on Monday, what’s going to be picked up on Tuesday, Wednesday, every second week Thursday, every week in the summertime, every second week in the wintertime. So you have to have this

schedule on the fridge or somewhere in the house so that you know, at 6 o’clock in the morning, which buckets have to be out there, because recycling is picked up every week but not the same recycling. One week it might be paper. The next week it’s plastic or maybe cans.

It’s like you get up in the morning—I have to say, and I hope that I don’t get into trouble over this, that I’ve got to admit I’m not the one putting it out, ever, if very often. I really haven’t got much to do with it, so maybe I shouldn’t be talking about it because I am probably going to get myself in trouble. But I know that on occasion, at 8 or 9 o’clock in the morning, the recycling buckets are still there and everything is still in them.

Then my wife will say, “Oh, it’s paper week and I put out the cans.” It’s confusing sometimes, because there’s so many different ways of managing the waste stream today that just didn’t exist years and years ago. So that’s a little bit on the personal side about how important it’s become.

It’s not like this government just invented recycling. In fact, I may be wrong—I know somebody said that the Liberals claimed they brought out the Blue Box Program, but I believe it was the Conservatives that instituted—

Hon. James J. Bradley: I won an award.

Mr. John Yakabuski: The original Blue Box Program came from the Conservatives, but the member from St. Catharines may want to dispute that.

Hon. James J. Bradley: Province-wide.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Oh, province-wide. Oh, the Liberals made it province-wide, but they didn’t invent the program. You know, when Henry Ford first brought out the car, not everybody got one the next week. It was the Conservatives who brought out the Blue Box Program and perhaps the Liberals expanded on it. Well, whoop-de-do. Once you put a man on the moon, it wasn’t that hard to get the second one there. Good Lord, they would take the credit for everything. They want to take the credit for everything.

Anyway, it was the Conservatives who brought out the Blue Box Program. They’re the ones who instituted the program here in the province of Ontario. In fact, it was the Conservatives who first brought out a Ministry of the Environment. And we take a lot of flak from people on the other side. The Liberals like to portray themselves as the champions of the environment, the ones that have made protecting the environment their life story, their reason for being here.

But it was the provincial PC Party that brought out the Ministry of the Environment, because they recognized that if we are going to live in a prosperous province that affords everyone the opportunity to be successful, then we’ve got to take care of Mother Earth as well. We’ve got to make sure the environment we’re living in is one that we prioritize as requiring our protection, and not just our use, not just our enjoyment. Should we enjoy the environment? Absolutely. But we’ve got to make sure that we’re taking the necessary steps to protect that environment as well.

We’ve got state-of-the-art environmental facilities in my riding. I look at the Ottawa Valley Waste Recovery Centre. When it was first being planned, a lot of people said, “Oh, this isn’t going to work.” This is a marvellous, marvellous example of reducing waste in the waste stream. We’re way ahead of the provincial average, for the municipalities that participate in the Ottawa Valley Waste Recovery Centre—way ahead.

In fact—and you know me; I’m not very often that critical of the government, but from time to time I have to be—let’s just talk about waste diversion. I recall that in 2003, the former member for Prince Edward–Hastings—it might have been called something else at that time—Leona Dombrowsky, was the new environment minister. She promised a 60% diversion rate, I think, by 2008, somewhere around there. Our waste diversion rate in the province of Ontario today is no better than it was when the Liberals took office. They brought out a whole cadre of programs, but they haven’t been successful. I think they have to take responsibility for that.

We all recall the fiasco surrounding eco taxes. Do you remember that, Speaker? Remember that summer when the eco taxes hit the airwaves and people just went apoplectic? One of the ones that was the best example of something gone awry was a bag of ready-mix cement. The eco taxes on a bag of ready-mix cement amounted to more money than the bag of cement itself. It was a 66-pound—30 kilograms—bag of cement. The cement itself was less expensive than the eco taxes.

If you made concrete out of that bag of cement—let’s say it was ready-mix concrete—where was that going once that hardened up and was used as an anchor or some kind of a post or whatever small amount of concrete? Yet the eco taxes were more expensive than the product itself.

The whole program made no sense. But what does make sense—and the PCs need to take credit for this, as well as the other stakeholders out there who told them this eco tax madness was just that, madness. They are phasing these things out and they have committed to a timetable, and that’s something everybody wants to see and support.

When it comes to protecting the environment, nobody has a monopoly on the right ideas and nobody should be castigated as being the villain in this discussion either. I believe that every member of this assembly is absolutely committed to protecting our environment.

At the end of the day, I’m probably not going to leave my children a lot of money unless they do something to enhance the retirement package for MPPs in this House, but probably not a lot of money. I hope I’m going to leave them a reasonably good name, but what I have to make sure that I have done right is that I’ve done everything that I can do to leave the earth and our environment, both locally and globally, in a better condition than in which we found it.

Interjection.

Mr. John Yakabuski: What’s that?

Interjection.

Mr. John Yakabuski: My colleague from Haliburton.

Ms. Laurie Scott: Does that mean blue box or green box?

Mr. John Yakabuski: I’m not sure what box she’s referring to right now. Is it the recycling box or is it the box that I’m going to leave this world in? I’m assuring her of one thing: There will be no interest in recycling me once I’m done. There will be no interest in that.

But it is our responsibility as legislators to make sure we leave this earth in a better condition than in which we found it. I think we all take that responsibility seriously so that our children and our grandchildren will pick up on that.

The one thing that I will say is that the children of today—look, when I was growing up in school, there was no education. I mean, we had common sense. Thank goodness we had common sense. I’ll tell you a little bit about that common sense—and you knew what was right and wrong.

I’ll tell you a story about my son, Lucas, who is going to be 25 in July. Just little things: When he was a little boy and he would be in school or whatever and have maybe some candy wrappers or whatever, there was no way those candy wrappers would ever be thrown on the ground. He knew that was the wrong thing to do. They went into his pocket. When he would come home from school or wherever he was, whenever we were doing the laundry we would find wrappers—I wasn’t doing the laundry either—and stuff like that in his pants pockets.

One Sunday afternoon, my wife was taking Lucas and another boy down to the corner store in Eganville for some ice cream and some treats. When they were coming back from the store, back to her mother’s, she turned around and Lucas and the other boy were some space behind her and Lucas was having this discussion with the other boy.

Vicky walks back, wondering what’s going on, and Lucas was telling him he had to pick up that paper that he threw on the ground because that’s not what you do with paper. They had paper from some of the candies, and he just threw it on the ground, and Lucas was challenging him on that, saying, “No, you’ve got to pick that up and take that back to Grandma’s house and put it in the garbage.” That’s not only good responsibility, but it’s common sense. It’s one of my biggest pet peeves, and maybe he picked that up a little bit.

I just can’t stand it when I’m driving down the highway and I see somebody throw something out the window, garbage on the highways, or anywhere else, whether it’s on a golf course—I go out and play golf sometimes, and on a golf course there are waste cans at every tee box, but then you drive and you see beer cans and crap thrown along the cart paths. There’s no reason for that whatsoever. That’s why everybody has to take individual responsibility, as well, to do their part. I always say that if you can carry something to wherever you were using it, then you can carry the empty back to wherever the proper place for disposal is. That’s something we all need to take seriously.

I’ve almost gotten into more than an argument, on occasion, over people littering. I take that very seriously. I’ve actually pulled somebody over at the next stoplight, when I saw them throw garbage out the window of their vehicle, and have had heated discussions with them over that kind of practice. There’s no room for that in this world. Everybody needs to take that responsibility seriously.

If we all do our part, and government does its part, and opposition does its part, we’ll all have this bill—and we’re going to have this bill shortly. It’s going to strengthen our waste diversion here in the province of Ontario. That’s a good thing. At some point we need to change the mindset about packaging and all that, but that’s a discussion for another day. Maybe we’ll have that another time.

I thank you for the opportunity to speak this morning, Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Questions and comments?

Ms. Jennifer K. French: I’m pleased to comment on the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke’s comments on Bill 151, the Waste-Free Ontario Act. I would like to say, to his point, that while people might not have an interest in recycling him, we certainly have an interest in hearing his comments, and we might recycle some of his lines, so it isn’t all for naught.

His point that our job here as legislators and, really, as citizens of Ontario is to leave the world in a better condition than we found it in is something that we do need to carry forward in our day to day, whether that is, like his son Lucas, taking our candy wrappers home with us or to the next garbage can and not leaving them as we’re walking. I think our children know that. We need to remember that.

I remember being a child not that long ago—although when I do the math, it’s getting up there—and I remember some of the campaigns. When you’re young, there are catchy slogans that you remember: reduce, reuse, recycle. It’s interesting when we think about reduce, reuse, recycle. As consumers, the message was for us, but, now, as we see packaging and industry growing and we see a consumer-driven society, a waste-driven society, the onus of reducing, reusing and recycling really does now fall to the producers as well, and needs to. They need to reduce their packaging and wasteful materials.

We see more targeted recycling programs, whether it’s at stores that allow you to bring your electronics, batteries or appliances back—to have these recycling programs is an important piece as well.

I’m realizing it was almost 30 years ago, when I was living in Palgrave, that the region of Peel had compost bins that families could get, whether for free or for a low cost, and I remember that it was my job and my brother’s job to take the waste out to the compost bin. My brother loved it as a wildlife preserve.

Anyway, we see that we can encourage this behaviour in our families from the beginning.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further comments?

Hon. James J. Bradley: I am delighted to respond to what is always an entertaining intervention by the member from Barry’s Bay, among other places. If I want to follow what is happening in his riding, I can read the Eganville Leader. He is found in the Eganville Leader second only to the federal member, Cheryl Gallant, who seems to be very active in the riding.

By the way, I had a chance, when I was Minister of the Environment, to visit the riding, and I was welcomed by the member very warmly. We were at a waste management facility at the time with the good local folks. I thought it was a very good day. Again, the federal member, Cheryl Gallant, showed up at this particular event. I don’t recall that it had anything to do with the federal government, but nevertheless she was there with the member, I’m sure to support him in supporting the government of the day.

I had the opportunity to serve with the member’s father, Paul Yakabuski, in this House a number of years ago as well, so I appreciate his interventions when they are here.

I’m glad to see that the Conservative Party is now supporting this. The road to Damascus is very crowded now with people who are getting on the environmental bandwagon. I even see that at the convention in Vancouver there were some converts to environmentalism.

I want to point out to the member, by the way—he mentioned Henry Ford inventing the car. I don’t think Henry Ford actually invented the car. What he invented was the assembly line, just as the city of Mississauga invented the Blue Box Program. Then the province of Ontario, under the Peterson government, made it a province-wide program. There’s a direct parallel in that particular case.

I am pleased to see that this bill is finally going to proceed, that there’s going to be joy amongst a consensus of the people right across this province. I thank the member for his timely intervention.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments?

Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: I want to congratulate my colleague and friend from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke because he always brings a unique perspective to the debate. I appreciate very much how he took time to demonstrate to the people here in the House how the PCs have always—always—held the environment as a priority. We’ve been walking by example in what we have done through the decades. I appreciated him pointing that out, very much so.

Specifically with regard to Bill 151, while we reserve the right to put the government on notice, saying we’re going to be watching the evolution of this legislation, I feel at this time I should share a few flags, some concerns from stakeholders who have come forward saying they’re a little concerned about all these policy statements that could come forward at the minister’s discretion.

Again, we want accountability; we want transparency. When there’s so much power put in the hands of one person—and currently, that one person who holds the minister role in terms of the Ministry of Environment and Climate Change has proven himself to be a little reckless from time to time, not only with his comments but the direction in which he has tried to steer his caucus and government. We issue a warning flag in that regard. We cannot afford to move forward in Ontario with some comprehensive plans, all while the leadership takes a left turn and goes off script and causes a lot of concern for stakeholders.

That’s just another warning flag that we have with regard to putting so much power into the hands of one person.

But overall, Bill 151 is a marked improvement because of the embracing of many good ideas coming from the PC Party of Ontario.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further questions and comments?

Mrs. Lisa Gretzky: It’s always a pleasure to rise and bring the voice of my constituents from Windsor West to any debate that we’re having.

Today we’re debating Bill 151, the Waste-Free Ontario Act, which I’ve had the pleasure of speaking to several times. Today I get to talk about some of the things the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke touched on.

It’s never been my goal to have to follow the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke. I don’t know how you follow a member who is so passionate and so animated when he speaks. I’m sure I’m not quite as entertaining as he is.

Several members have touched on education and how we need to make sure that people understand reduce, reuse and recycle, so I’m going to talk about that. I’m going to talk about my own home and how shocking it is when I look at how much recycling we have compared to how much garbage goes out to the curb for collection. People would think that’s a good thing, but I marvel at how much—here’s free advertising: We have one of the large Herby Curbys—if you don’t have one, you should probably go get one; they’re fantastic—and it’s overflowing all the time.

It amazes me how much prepackaged food there is out there. Clearly, we buy too much of it. It’s getting harder and harder to stick to food that isn’t prepackaged. Dietitians will tell you to stick to the outside perimeters of the grocery stores for the healthy foods, but more and more of that has become prepackaged produce and other things. So it’s becoming very difficult to buy things that aren’t prepackaged, and the result of that is more and more people, if they are choosing to recycle—and I certainly hope they are—will find that their recycle bins are overflowing.

We have a Herby Curby and we also have a blue box for the overflow. I think it’s incumbent on the producers to be looking at how to reduce packaging so that when they do make it into the households, and the consumers are using it, there are fewer and fewer items that have to be used for recycling or garbage.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Back to the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke for his final comments.

Mr. John Yakabuski: I appreciate the comments of the member from Oshawa, the member from St. Catharines, the member from Huron–Bruce and the member from Windsor West.

I did misspeak when I said that Henry Ford invented the car. I know that that’s not accurate. He did invent the assembly line. I was really thinking of the Model T; it popularized the Model T. But I am at a disadvantage to the member from St. Catharines because, probably, he actually drove a Model T here when he first got elected to the assembly, so he’s had that personal history of driving one of Henry Ford’s pride and joys.

But back to the issue: We can all kibitz around and have a little fun on this sometimes, but the importance of the environment cannot be overstated. Governments at all levels, regardless of which party is in power, have recognized that it is a priority ministry no matter which jurisdiction or what government or party is in power.

We all are taking the steps that we can. This bill is a positive step. We recognize that it has a much more common-sense approach in it than its previous son, Bill 91, and a lot of that is because of the suggestions made by the PC caucus and the PC environment critics, both Michael Harris and Lisa Thompson. When we’re done this, when this bill passes, we’ll be in a better position than we are today.

To all of the comments, waste diversion is something that is not going to become a smaller problem; it’s going to become a bigger problem. We have to continue to find ways to reduce the amount that goes into our landfills. We can’t invent more land, so we’d better start inventing less waste. No more land, so let’s make less waste.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further debate?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: I notice that there’s a number of members from the Sikh community in the galleries. I want to extend my invitation and my welcome to them, and in the members’ gallery as well.

I’m also honoured to join the debate on Bill 151. First and foremost, let’s make it clear that New Democrats support this bill. We support initiatives to reduce waste. There are a number of issues, obviously, with the bill, but let’s first and foremost address the overall concern and the reason why we support it.

In our society, and we’ve heard a number of members talk about this, we have a very serious responsibility now. We are at a turning point in our society where we really need to look at how we can, in earnest, take care of our environment and protect our environment.

The member from Nipissing talked about how we need to protect Mother Earth. Our members from the New Democratic Party talked about how important it is to ensure we reduce waste. There’s a connection between waste and climate change. There’s a connection between the increased amount of waste we’re producing and the negative impact that waste production has on our environment. That connection is absolutely clear.

Reducing waste on a practical level, in the sense that we don’t have an unlimited source of land to put that waste, is important. But in addition, the extended impact is that increased waste in our system, in our society, wherever it ends up, whether it’s in landfills, whether it’s in the water—the waste that is produced will negatively impact our environment. And it has impacted our environment in a negative manner, and there’s clear evidence to support that.

We need to be doing as much as possible. We need to be doing everything we can to ensure we move away from the previous way of thinking, which was that there’s limitless land, we can produce limitless waste, and it’s not going to have an impact because this world is so big. We’re learning more and more, and this world is becoming smaller and smaller on many levels: economically, with global trade, but also with the fact that we’re seeing the impact of the production of waste and the human impact on our environment, and it’s real. We need to address that. So that’s a positive thing.

The other main element of this bill that I want to highlight as being an absolutely positive step is the idea of ensuring that the individual producer has responsibility for the end of life of products produced. That general concept of individual producer responsibility is absolutely a very positive step in the right direction. It allows the producer the opportunity that they actually are making sure the product that they’re designing has a concern about the end of life.

They’re looking at ways to ensure that their product is not only something that they can market effectively but also, at the end of life, is not something that’s going to become a waste or a burden on society. That’s a very important step.

Now, some of the concerns about the initiative: One is, the bill itself is named the Waste-Free Ontario Act. That’s obviously a very positive name. We want to move towards a society where there is absolutely no waste. We also want to move to a society that ensures there’s a circular economy, that if there is any produce or any sort of product left behind at the end of use, that can be reused in a way that does not create waste, that it’s reused in a circular manner.

However, the issue that I have with the bill is that, despite the title, there isn’t actually a clear, legislated goal of a waste-free Ontario. It sounds great as a title, and it’s something that in fact New Democrats support as an initiative and as a vision, but the bill doesn’t actually have a concrete goal set where it says that you must create a waste-free system. It does not have that requirement, and that is a problem. As a vision, obviously, it’s something absolutely important and I’m glad that it’s been raised, but we need to ensure that our bills are reflecting what they’re actually doing.

In this case, the bill does not achieve that goal. This is an area where the government could ensure that the legislation matches the title, and actually has set concrete goals and objectives that are actually designed to say, “Yes, we want this target to be achieved by a certain time, so that we do indeed have this waste-free Ontario.” So that’s a concern, that it’s not there.

Again, with the individual producer responsibility, one of the things that is absolutely important is that it allows the producer to come up with creative ways to reduce waste. That’s something where we look forward to seeing the innovation. Some of the other members have said, in effect, when we talk about what we do with waste, we hear the three Rs all the time: reduce, reuse, recycle. They’re in that order for a reason. I think it’s important to highlight this.

The most important thing we can do—we think about waste and we always think about, “Let’s recycle more. Let’s encourage more recycling.” Recycling is absolutely important. But the first R is reduce, and that’s why it is the first: because it’s the most important. We need to ensure that in the beginning of the process, we’re reducing waste, so that it’s not a matter of always looking towards how we can reuse the waste that we’ve generated. We need to ensure that producers are looking at how they can reduce waste in the first place.

There are a lot of strategies around that and we really need to look at some serious solutions. There are many areas of packaging that I’m sure—when we look at the product ourselves, we think, “Why is there so much packaging? It’s so unnecessary.” There’s ways to look at—instead of packaging items for individual use, in a way that’s to be discarded, looking at ways that the consumer can actually have an item they can bring into the store and refill.

That idea of using their own materials to refill, using their own receptacles to refill, is something that the producers could look to creative ways of marketing so that they can encourage people to bring back that same item that was sold and it could be the item that they put the new product in. These are ideas that I’m hoping producers are going to look at in terms of their strategy.

The initial point that I started with was the connection between waste production and climate change. I just want to quote Environmental Defence and the Toronto Environmental Alliance. They support the bill, and I want to highlight their comments, both from Environmental Defence and the Toronto Environmental Alliance:

“We welcome the Strategy for a Waste-Free Ontario and are very pleased to see Ontario making the explicit link between waste and climate change and committing to a vision for a circular economy where Ontario produces zero waste.”

They acknowledge and are pleased with this connection. I also want to reiterate that it’s absolutely important to connect waste and climate change.

Where I also agree is this vision for a circular economy. Again, I implore the government: Let’s move from just a vision to a concrete plan for a waste-free Ontario; let’s move beyond simply a plan to concrete, objective criteria to actually set targets so that we can achieve that goal. So that’s reiterating that concern.

With respect to other elements of the bill that I have some concerns with, the bill suggests the creation of a new delegated administrative authority. One of the concerns I have is that any time we create a delegated administrative authority, there are concerns around accountability. When you create an arm’s-length-from-the-government entity, there are always concerns about how the government can continue to provide oversight over this entity, which is essentially only in existence because of the government’s mandate.

We’ve seen in other circumstances—not exactly the same, but where we have administrative authorities, the government doesn’t have the same ability to ensure that they’re actually doing the job they were supposed to do, that they set out to do, that they were mandated to do.

One example—something similar, but not exactly the same—is with respect to Tarion. Tarion is an arm’s-length entity. It’s not directly under the ministry or any particular ministry, but it exists solely because this government has created a mandate that this is the only new home warranty system in the province. When you have a system like that, what happens is consumers are required to purchase their home warranty through this one entity. So their entire funding is based on the people of Ontario purchasing it.

But when it comes to the concerns that the consumer raises—if someone buys a home and says, “Listen, this home warranty program is not working very well. They’re actually rejecting claims time and time again,” there is really no recourse. Right now, people complain, and they don’t have a way to seek a remedy.

Similarly, if we have a delegated administrative authority in this case and there are concerns about the way it’s operating, the way it’s developing policies, the way it’s administering, we don’t know if the government will be able to provide the necessary oversight. We have other examples where it hasn’t worked, so that’s why it’s important to look to other examples and say, listen, if it hasn’t worked in this case, maybe it won’t work in the current example, when it comes to this waste management issue.

I raise that concern because there have been a number of other delegated administrative authorities that have shown to be not the most effective way of delivering the service, but more importantly have had serious problems with respect to oversight, transparency and accountability. So that’s an area of concern that I have.

The bill lists a number of provincial interests that will guide the way and the manner in which the rollout of the strategy will happen. The strategy will be guided by these provincial interests and, ideally, the way the producer creates new strategies or new solutions will be guided by these principles.

These principles are very positive, and I want to highlight some of them: minimizing greenhouse gas emissions; minimizing waste generation; increasing the durability, reusability and recyclability of products and packaging; holding those responsible for the design of products and packaging responsible for their end-of-life management; reducing hazardous and toxic materials in products and packaging; minimizing the need for waste disposal; plus “any other related thing that may be prescribed.”

Those provincial interests are indeed something positive.

I understand that time is just about winding down, so I’ll just wrap up by saying that the bill has some very positive elements. It’s very important for us to move toward a society that reduces waste, and I’m encouraged by the bill. There are certainly some issues we can address, but we’ll absolutely be supporting the bill.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Thank you very much. Just to the member, you will have time when this bill is called again to complete your debate.

Third reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Since it is now 10:15, this House stands recessed until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1015 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Before we move into introduction of guests, I will be introducing our guests for the tribute today, including former members.

So with us today, not as part of the tribute but somebody who is here as well, is the former member from Ottawa West–Nepean in the 38th and 39th Parliaments, Mr. Jim Watson. Thank you, Jim.

Now it’s time for introduction of guests.

Mr. Toby Barrett: I’m certain we all welcome the cattlemen here today. It’s a day that we look forward to. Don’t miss the barbecue at noon.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: It’s my pleasure to introduce the family of page captain Emily Dale: her parents, Julie Dale and Steve Dale; her sister Megan; and her brother Cameron. Welcome to the Legislature.

Hon. Jeff Leal: It’s a great honour for me to introduce, in the members’ east gallery today, Mr. Matt Bowman, who is president of the Beef Farmers of Ontario; Mr. Joe Hill, vice-president of the Beef Farmers of Ontario; and two people from the great riding of Peterborough who are very good friends of mine, Garnet Toms, who is a director, and Dave Cavanagh, who is a director. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Ted Arnott: I too wish to welcome Joe Hill and also Dave Stewart from the Ontario Cattlemen’s Association, who are here today, as well as my constituent Terry Mundell from the Greater Toronto Hotel Association. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Ms. Sarah Campbell: I’m very happy to welcome the students and staff of Beaver Brae Secondary School from Kenora to Queen’s Park. I’d also like to give a special welcome to Sheena Wheeler, who is a teacher at Beaver Brae and a former page of the Ontario Legislature. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Michael Coteau: We have some visitors from the Greater Toronto Hotel Association in the House this morning: Terry Mundell, president and CEO of the GTHA; David Kelley, chair of the board; and Edwin Frizzell, executive committee member. I’d like to welcome them to the Legislature and also remind all members here today that there’s a reception here this evening. Thank you very much for joining us today.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Obviously, I would like to add my voice in welcoming my mayor, Jim Watson, here, and also Councillor Catherine McKenney; her daughter Kenney; my husband, Joe; and my daughter, Victoria. Ottawa is taking over Queen’s Park today, if we haven’t already done it, sir.

Mr. John Vanthof: I would also like to welcome the Beef Farmers of Ontario here today, and my constituent, the president of Beef Farmers of Ontario, Matt Bowman.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: Only five Canadian productions have ever made it to Broadway. I’m pleased today to introduce Irene Sankoff and David Hein, the producers of Come From Away, and Michael Rubinoff, who is the associate dean of the department of visual and performing arts at Sheridan College. Speaker, please welcome them to Queen’s Park. They’re opening on Broadway in 2017.

Mr. Todd Smith: It’s a pleasure to introduce a number of the members from the Punjabi Sikh community here for question period today: Balinder Singh Badesha, Manjit Singh Grewal from the Malton gurdwara, Bikram Singh Bal, Jas Dhadda, Harjit Jaswal, Pam Hundal, Gulab Saini, and others from the Sikh Motorcycle Club who are here today. Welcome, all.

Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde: I would like all members of the House to acknowledge a very special occasion, a very special day on his birthday today. He is sitting in the underpress, one of our staff from the whip, Brendan McClughan. Happy birthday, Brendan.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I’d like to welcome Ms. Cheung’s grade 8 class from Westwood Middle School. To the students, welcome to the Legislature.

Hon. Dipika Damerla: Today is World No Tobacco Day and we are celebrating that. We’re also celebrating the 10th anniversary of smoke-free Ontario here in the Legislature later today at Queen’s Park. We’re doing that by giving out 10 Heather Crowe Smoke-Free Ontario Awards. The ceremony will take place right after question period in room 228. I ask everybody to attend.

More importantly, we have a number of special guests who have travelled from across Ontario to attend the Heather Crowe Smoke-Free Ontario Awards.

I’d like to introduce them once again: the honourable Jim Watson, the mayor of Ottawa; Will Bulmer, city of Ottawa; from the Heart and Stroke Foundation, Cristin Napier, Jeffrey Li and Maha Sohail; from the Ontario Lung Association, Ledja Peci, Peter Glazier, Sherry Zarins, Chris Yaccato and Andrea Stevens Lavigne; and the award recipients, Ted Boadway, Vito Chiefari, Jane Ling, the city of Hamilton board of health, Porcupine Gold Mines, Ontario Finnish Resthome Association, Ottawa Model for Smoking Cessation, Simon Hoad, Mary Ransom and Jenny Schiffl.

We welcome you all. We thank you for your contributions. We look forward to honouring you and everybody—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

The member from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound.

Mr. Bill Walker: It’s a pleasure to introduce Rob Lipsett, a member of the Beef Farmers of Ontario, from the great riding of Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound and the son of former MPP Ron Lipsett.

Mr. Mike Colle: I’d like to welcome Kelci Gershon, who is the aunt of page Nava Wu. Welcome.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I want to welcome a very hardworking constituent of mine from Ottawa Centre. Please welcome Will Bulmer from Old Ottawa East. Welcome to Queen’s Park, Will.

L’hon. Madeleine Meilleur: I would like to introduce my intern Christian Petit-frère, originaire de Haïti, qui a été pris dans le tremblement de terre, qui est venu rejoindre sa famille ici à Toronto et qui maintenant étudie en droit à l’Université d’Ottawa.

Mr. Robert Bailey: I’d like to introduce a constituent of mine, Mr. Tom Wilson, a director of the Beef Farmers of Ontario. Welcome here to Queen’s Park today.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: Our page Katelyn is joined today by somebody very important in her life: her grandfather Francis Recagno is here at Queen’s Park today. Please give him a warm welcome.

Legislative pages

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): At this time, I would ask all members to join me in welcoming our pages. Our new pages are here and we’re going to introduce them. Please assemble.

From Halton, Alexandra Wu; from Mississauga–Brampton South, Alina Saleh; from Parkdale–High Park, Ariane Parent; from Peterborough, Claire Williams; from Sudbury, Colleen Gauvreau; from Etobicoke Centre, Daniel Smart-Reed; from Pickering–Scarborough East, Daniel Zung; from Toronto–Danforth, Emily Dale; from Willowdale, Emma Zhou; from Markham–Unionville, Huzaifah Muhammad; from Ancaster–Dundas–Flamborough–Westdale, Jacob Rudolph; from Mississauga South, Julia Michaud; from Oakville, Katelyn Recagno; from Davenport, Lianhao Qu; from Welland, Mélina Dubé; from Scarborough Centre, Nadine Elsaddig; from Eglinton–Lawrence, Nava Wu; from Brampton West, Sahil Bhagat; from Scarborough Southwest, Sulin Fletcher; from Haldimand–Norfolk, Thomas Rickus; and from Oak Ridges–Markham, Waleed Malik.

These are our pages for this couple of weeks.

Visitors

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Aboriginal Affairs, for introductions.

Hon. David Zimmer: It’s my honour to recognize page captain Emma Zhou from Willowdale. Her mother, Maggie, is here, and her father, William, and her brother, Daniel. Welcome to the Legislature.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Would the members please join me in welcoming the families and friends of the late Michael Murray Dietsch, MPP for St. Catharines–Brock during the 34th Parliament, who are seated in the Speaker’s gallery: his wife, Gail; his sons Michael, Matthew and his wife, Kristen; and Paul and his wife, Natasha; his daughters Patricia Tebbutt, Jody Golding; and Linda Dietsch-Bird and her husband, David; his grandchildren Bram, Melissa, Sean, Tyler, Liam, Kaleb, Austin, Nolan and Leah; and many friends. We welcome you to the tribute. Thank you for being here.

Also in the Speaker’s gallery for the tribute is the former member from Brantford in the 34th parliament, my grade 12 world politics teacher, Mr. David Neumann.

Michael Dietsch

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I would call upon the government House leader for a point of order.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I believe you will find that we have unanimous consent to pay tribute to Michael Murray Dietsch, former member for St. Catharines–Brock, with a representative from each caucus speaking for up to five minutes.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The government House leader is seeking unanimous consent to pay tribute. Do we agree? Agreed.

I’ll call upon the member from Niagara West–Glanbrook.]

Mr. Tim Hudak: If Tip O’Neill once said, “All politics is local,” then Mike Dietsch lived it. He and his wife, Gail, were still busy raising their six kids—Pat, Linda, Jody, Mike, Paul and Matthew—when he decided to run for provincial office as the MPP for the riding of St. Catharines–Brock in 1987. Mike successfully ran for the Liberals as part of a Peterson government sweep.

But when Mike told Gail that he wanted to run for the nomination provincially, Gail was terrified. Gail was an army brat. She and Mike actually met when her dad, Chief Warrant Officer William Bowman, ran the army camp in Niagara-on-the-Lake and Mike worked there. She says her dad wasn’t too happy with the crowd she ran around with in Hamilton—those from Niagara can understand that about Hamilton—so he liked Mike.

So they had been raising six kids. She loved living in the country, and Mike was an automotive worker and a farmer, and they loved being at home with the family. So Gail wondered—a lot—if being here at Queen’s Park in the Legislature and being in Toronto was going to change them and change their family. Even friends and neighbours wondered, if Mike were elected, how the Dietsch family might no longer be the ordinary folks that they loved spending time with. But when Mike Dietsch made up his mind, he stuck to it, and Gail fully supported him.

Knowing Mike as I did—I knew him for his municipal politics—I knew full well that nothing would change. Mike always said, “I am who I am,” and assured Gail they’d always stay grounded—so grounded, in fact, that Gail kept her job in Niagara-on-the-Lake, driving a school bus. When Mike was off at Queen’s Park, she loved working with the kids. Friends and neighbours would ask, incredulously, “Now with Mike elected, you’re not still driving a bus, are you?” She said, “Of course I am. I love it. I’m a part of the community.”

And local pays off. In the nomination in 1987, people saw the writing on the wall. The Liberals were on the move, and it was a big contest: five contestants in the nomination, and a lot of big names. Truth be told, folks thought Mike would be lucky to come in fourth in that race. But he actually went door to door during the nomination and met with the members, and he built a team. He divvied up the lists of memberships between husband-and-wife pairs and had them go together as well, knocking door to door on his behalf.

Because of his local reputation and dedication, and because of his approach and hard work, he actually came first on the first ballot and stayed first all the way through to win that nomination. He defied the odds through good old-fashioned hard work and a smart game plan. He applied the same smarts and work ethic in the general election, visiting 19,000 homes during that campaign. He was feeling confident on election night with good reason. He actually beat former MPP and future regional chair Peter Partington. That was no easy contest.

So no surprise, when Mike arrived here in 1987, he fully threw himself into the work, but he never forgot about the folks back home. He brought forward three private members’ bills that made a huge difference—actually, he not only brought them forward but had each of them pass, Speaker, and all to do with the grape and wine industry. Any of us from Niagara, Prince Edward county, the Lake Erie north shore and across the province know the importance of that industry.

His three bills resulted in the allowance of credit card sales at wineries, Sunday openings at wineries and an irrigation bill to allow farmers to use irrigation ditches to water their crops—so way ahead of his time. Back in the early 1990s, late 1980s, there was a small number of wineries, and he helped build a successful sector that adds millions and millions of dollars to our economy each and every year.

Ironically, I found out, though, Speaker, that once he arrived in 1987, Mike stopped drinking altogether—not even wine. He felt he should focus fully on his work. Even at home, Christmas dinners, out for dinner with the family, he wanted to focus on his job. But even though Mike didn’t have any wine, whenever he went out for dinner with Gail, the family or anybody else, he demanded to see the wine lists. He’d call the sommelier over or the head waiter, and if there wasn’t Ontario wine on that list, they heard about it.

Then, come Monday morning, he’d follow up with a letter back to the restaurant and all of the wineries—there were only seven back then in Niagara-on-the-Lake; he called them the group of seven—and told them that this would be an outstanding establishment to show off their product. No wonder he earned himself the nickname “the Winer” around here at Queen’s Park—no H of course.

As much as Mike felt it was his duty to give back to his community, his leadership was very well respected by all the work he did and those he worked with, his constituents, but never at the expense of his family. He always had time for his kids, despite the demanding

schedule and the travel back and forth to Toronto. When three of the kids played lacrosse one summer, Mike and Gail just packed up the whole family and spent their summer holidays camping at the lacrosse tournaments across our province, ensuring the whole family spent quality time together despite the hectic schedule.

One year, they took all eight family members in a crew cab truck and drove across Canada—seven weeks of that, packed in there with the kids. Gail said that was the only other time in her life she was terrified with one of Mike’s decisions. He valued family ahead of everything else, and I’m sure his wife of 52 years, Gail, his six kids and his 17 grandchildren deeply feel his absence today, but no doubt his grandchildren are enormously proud of what their grandpa stood for, what he accomplished for the folks back home and that he never, ever lost sight of that old adage, “Dance with the one who brung ya.”

It’s an honour to pay tribute to Mike Dietsch and all he accomplished for our province.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further tribute?

Mr. Wayne Gates: It’s an honour and privilege for me to rise and say a few words about former MPP for St. Catharines–Brock Michael Dietsch, who was an autoworker, just like myself.

I’d like to thank his wife, Gail; his sons, Matt, Paul and Michael; his daughters, Pat, Linda and Jody and all his many grandchildren for being here today.

Some of you may wonder why I’m rising to speak about an MPP from an area called St. Catharines–Brock. In 1987, this was actually a riding that existed in Niagara and, despite its name, contained the town of Niagara-on-the-Lake, which today is in my riding.

When talking about Mike, you will see that despite the name of the riding, MPP Mike was a man who cared deeply for Niagara-on-the-Lake and worked very hard on behalf of the people of the town.

Former Lord Mayor Dave Eke said that he was committed to his family, to his community and to the people he represented.

During his three years here in the Legislature, he managed to do something that I think most of us would be shocked to hear: He managed to pass three private member’s bills. The MPPs who are here today are happy if we get one. If anyone had any doubt that Mr. Dietsch stood up for the people and the businesses of Niagara-on-the-Lake, let me read out to you briefly what these bills were about:

—first, a bill to allow credit card sales at wineries;

—second, a bill to allow wineries to open on Sunday;

—third, and equally important, a bill that would allow farmers to use irrigation ditches to water their crops.

Looking at Niagara-on-the-Lake today, you can point at those three bills and say with confidence that they helped to build the town that we know.

But Mike was so much more than just an MPP with an incredible mind for the constituents he served. Speaking to everyone who knew him, the first thing they tell you is, simply, that he was a great community man.

Mr. Speaker, I need to pause here for a second and explain something that’s a little interesting about the town of Niagara-on-the-Lake. As many of you know, the town is deeply connected to the history of this province, and to this country. Before the War of 1812, the town—which was called Newark at that time—was actually the first capital of what would become Ontario. It was also the first seat of government for this province. I suppose as a bit of tribute to that incredible heritage, the town remains one of the few jurisdictions that does not call the head of council a mayor.

In fact, the actual title is Lord Mayor. Today, the Lord Mayor is Pat Darte, who has continued Mike’s tradition of serving his community.

Mr. Speaker, I am sure you are aware that Mr. Dietsch was not only the Deputy Lord Mayor of the town from 1985 to 1987, but after his time as an MPP he became the Lord Mayor of the town, in 1991. He did such a good job that his neighbours and friends re-elected him in 1994. Rounding out his incredible career, he ran for regional council in 1997, and of course he won.

As you can see, Michael Dietsch held just about every electable position for the people of Niagara-on-the-Lake that he could possibly hold. He was elected so many times because the people of Niagara knew they could depend on him to fight for their interests. I believe his record speaks for itself.

While in office, Mike helped secure—this is very important for Niagara—the second campus at Niagara College, in Niagara-on-the-Lake, and he was there when they broke ground in 1998 with the president of the college, Dan Patterson, a good friend of Mike’s as well. Mike’s wife, Gail, always said that that was his greatest achievement.

Mike also had a big hand in the successful wine industry and the many projects he oversaw as Lord Mayor. The people of Niagara have a lot to say thank you to Mike for.

Mr. Speaker, I’d also like to recognize that beyond his incredible legacy, Mr. Dietsch left behind his wife, Gail, to whom he was married for 52 years, six children and 17 grandchildren. Two of his sons, Matt and Paul, own a very successful restaurant in Niagara-on-the-Lake called Sandtrap and have used it to continue their father’s legacy by giving back to the community.

Mike was a family man, a community man—I’m going to add this: he was an auto worker—and one strong representative. I’m proud to stand here with my colleagues today and honour such a great individual.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further tribute?

Hon. James J. Bradley: The great disadvantage, Mr. Speaker, of being third is that everything has been said that should be said about Mike, and very eloquently by the members representing the Conservative Party and the New Democratic Party. I would say ditto to everything that they have had to say. But let me say, first of all, that I knew Mike personally for a long period of time before he was elected to the Legislature, and then he represented part of the city of St. Catharines and the surrounding area, including Niagara-on-the-Lake. His heart was in Niagara-on-the-Lake, quite obviously.

He was, first and foremost, as members have said, a constituency person. He never felt his role was to reflect the views of the Ontario government, of which he was part, to the people of his riding. His role was to reflect the views of the people of his riding to those of us who sat in the Ontario Legislature. He never got Toronto-itis or legislator-itis when he was over here because he recognized how important his own community was, that the people who elected him should come first and foremost in his mind. And so if there was a conflict between what the government policy might be and what Mike Dietsch thought was best for his constituency, you knew where he stood.

His family will tell you, believe it or not, that he could be stubborn from time to time. They’ll be shocked to hear that, of course. But he could be, and he was stubborn for a good reason. He was stubborn because he wanted to ensure that his riding was always first and foremost in the eyes of the government and in the eyes of those of us who sit in this assembly.

It is mentioned what his role was municipally. Many people in this House have come from the municipal sector. It’s a good grounding for people who sit in the Legislature today. Not essential, but it is a good grounding. As Lord Mayor of Niagara-on-the-Lake, Deputy Lord Mayor, as an alderman, as they were called then, and as a member of regional council, he was always very feisty. I always remember one term he used: “no way, shape or form.” He used that very often when he was referring to something that wasn’t going to happen or, if it would, it would be over his dead body, politically speaking.

As a member of caucus, Mike was very outspoken. He wasn’t afraid, with the Premier sitting there and with others in the cabinet sitting in the caucus, to offend any of them if he felt it was necessary to offend them. And he took up causes. The drought that hit the Niagara Peninsula was one that both members have mentioned, where a bill was brought forward to allow water to be used from drainage ditches. It sounds very basic, but it was very important to the farmers. He understood that because he had a small farm himself, as well as being an autoworker.

He maintained both, which allowed Gail to be able to spend a lot of time with the family. He did as well, even when he was here. I am a lacrosse fan, and I used to see him from time to time at lacrosse tournaments where the boys were playing and at other activities with the family, because he was also a very strong family person, and everybody in Niagara-on-the-Lake knew that.

When you think of the grape and wine industry, it was in its fairly fledgling days at the time, a very difficult and challenging time, and he wasn’t afraid to assist it. It sounds odd today that you couldn’t use a credit card at a winery, and that’s why he brought forward that bill. There were also other odd things you couldn’t do in a winery. You couldn’t go there on a Sunday ,and yet many of the people visiting the Niagara region came on a Sunday, so Sunday openings happened to be allowed.

Also near and dear to his heart was Niagara College, as was mentioned, and the campus in Niagara-on-the-Lake. It’s a beautiful campus, by the way. I think most members of the Legislature have been there at one time or another.

What a lot of people outside of Niagara-on-the-Lake didn’t know was that Mike had a chronic illness. He had cancer for 18 years, but he never wore that on his sleeve. If somebody had asked how he was, his answer would be, “Well, how are you?” He never sought sympathy. He never allowed that to get in the way of doing a job and he carried that extremely well. It was a burden, but nevertheless he carried it extremely well.

So we will be remembering him for many years to come in this Legislature. I attended the funeral, and I remember there were people from all political stripes, people from all kinds of backgrounds who crowded into the funeral and the reception after to pay tribute to Mike and certainly to Gail, his wife of 52 years; to members of the family, to members of the greater family and to friends. Everybody in Niagara-on-the-Lake at one time or another was a friend of Mike Dietsch.

We’re deeply grateful to you for sharing Mike with those of us in the Legislature and with the people of Ontario. He’ll be remembered fondly by all of his residents and by those who served with him.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I would like to take this moment to thank all the members for their very heartfelt and kind words that reflect our camaraderie and our friendship. I would also like to tell the family that a copy of Hansard and a DVD or a disk will be provided to the family as a token of our esteem, appreciation and love for Mike Dietsch. I thank you very much for the gift of Mike. Thank you very much, everyone.

Therefore, it is now time for question period.

Oral Questions

Health care funding

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Premier. Yesterday, five different MPPs asked the Premier if she had confidence in her Minister of Health. They asked whether the Premier would fire him or shuffle him out of the Minister of Health portfolio. Despite all the cuts, the Premier wouldn’t answer the question. Five times she avoided answering the question. So it’s clear, if this Premier agrees with the cuts, she will keep him as Minister of Health. If she doesn’t agree with the cuts, she will shuffle him out.

Mr. Speaker, here is a crystal-clear question: Will the Minister of Health still have his job as Minister of Health after the next cabinet shuffle, and does the Premier have confidence in him?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m trying to deal with that side. The members will come to order. I’m not going to tolerate that constantly.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I have confidence in my Minister of Health. I have confidence in my cabinet. I have confidence in my caucus. I have confidence in this team.

We are in the process of building this province up. We are making investments across the province in hospitals, in schools, in transit, in transportation, in roads and bridges. We are making investments in this province that are going to stand this province in good stead into the future, that are going to make us more prosperous.

Our economy is growing. We’re one of the leaders in the country. We are leading this country with our diverse, strong economy. Do I have confidence in my cabinet? Absolutely, Mr. Speaker, I do.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you. Start the clock, please.

Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Again to the Premier: It will be with extreme disappointment to Ontario nurses, physicians and patients that you stand by this embattled health minister.

I toured the Scarborough Hospital yesterday and again I got to see—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m sorry. Stop the clock.

I am now going to move to individuals. I’m going to start with the member from Beaches–East York.

Interjection: Who is not in his seat.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): And that’s not helpful when I’m trying to get the other side to come to order. That goes for everybody. I’m coming to every individual today.

Please finish.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Touring the Scarborough Hospital, I was able to realize the negative effects of these Liberal cuts. You know who put it best, actually? Former Liberal MPP Bas Balkissoon, who described the situation in Scarborough as not meeting “the needs of modern medicine.”

Yet the Scarborough Hospital wasn’t on the government’s past capital projects nor in their future plans. All the government does is fund more studies. The hospital staff feel that they’re not even on the radar with this government.

Will the Premier put the hacksaw away and finally give the Scarborough Hospital the support it deserves?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care is going to want to comment on the Scarborough issue.

But I think it is really important to recognize that this is the leader of a party that has consistently—consistently—voted against and opposed the investments that we are making in health care—$1 billion in our budget. The Leader of the Opposition and their party voted against that and opposed those investments: $345 million more for hospitals, new funding; $12 billion to build and renovate hospitals around the province; $50 million a year to deal with maintenance and deferred maintenance issues.

All of those investments the Leader of the Opposition has opposed, and they have voted against them. It’s a bit rich for him to stand up and say that we need to invest more when they vote against every initiative.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Final supplementary.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the Premier: I proudly opposed the budget that cut 1,400 nurses. I proudly opposed the budget that took $800 million from physicians to take away from patient care.

But let’s be very specific about the Scarborough Hospital. The operating rooms are the oldest in the province, created in 1956. The staff of the Scarborough Hospital told me that they’re half the size they’re supposed to be, to such an extent that they have to put equipment for the operating room in the hallways. It is unacceptable for patient care.

Seven years ago, the province did a study saying that they unequivocally needed new operating rooms. You have sat on the news for seven years that these operating rooms don’t meet the standards of modern medicine.

So my question is, will you finally show the respect to the people of Scarborough by giving them the new operating rooms that your own studies show are needed?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock, please.

Be seated, please.

Mr. John Yakabuski: He stood up for Scarborough and now he’s gone—a brave man, Balkissoon.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke, come to order.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I am so pleased that the official opposition has finally demonstrated some interest in Scarborough. I don’t recall in the last two years a single health care question about Scarborough. I don’t know if the timing is coincidental.

But I was recently in Scarborough myself. I stood side by side with every MPP from Scarborough and Durham, as we announced the result of a one-year focus on health care in Scarborough, where we announced a $19-million contribution to Scarborough Hospital for diagnostic imaging; we announced a $5-million planning grant for both Durham and Scarborough regions so we could build new infrastructure; we announced a $4.5-million increase in operating funds this year for Rouge Valley hospital, $3 million in new funding for Scarborough Hospital and $2.6 million more for Lakeridge.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Tourism, Culture and Sport will come to order.

New question.

Climate change

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Premier. A couple of weeks ago, the Globe and Mail acquired a 57-page climate change action plan. The document was stamped “cabinet confidential.” Now, we all know about “cabinet confidential,” and it’s an important part of our system, an important principle of our parliamentary system. It is a serious breach of trust and ethics to leak cabinet documents. Thanks to the Globe and Mail, we also know the Premier doesn’t trust her own cabinet.

So my question is, does the Premier know which minister walked out of cabinet with this confidential document?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I think that the Leader of the Opposition, like his former colleague in the Wildrose in Alberta, really doesn’t want to talk about climate change. He doesn’t want to talk about the realities that we have to take this challenge head-on, that we must make change. We must tackle this because we have a responsibility as a jurisdiction in Canada and as part of the globe. The changes that we’re making—the cap-and-trade, the Climate Change Action Plan that we’re putting in place—are going to drive innovation in this province, are going to drive down greenhouse gas emissions, and are going to help Canada to meet its commitment in the global fight.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Again to the Premier: My question was actually about the cabinet leak, but I’ll ask another question.

According to the Globe and Mail, the Premier believes some ministers are not pulling their weight. To be honest, I happen to agree with the Premier. But who exactly isn’t pulling their weight? Is it the Minister of Children and Youth Services, who took away IBI therapy from five-year-old children with autism? Is it the Minister of Health, who recklessly fired 1,400 nurses? Is it the Minister of Community and Social Services, who has thrown away $292 million on computer systems that don’t work?

Mr. Speaker, can the Premier tell us exactly which minister she thinks isn’t pulling their weight and which one of them leaked the cabinet document?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Mr. Mike Colle: Do you believe in climate change? Ask him.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Eglinton–Lawrence, come to order.

Mr. Mike Colle: Do you believe in it? Stand up and say it.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Eglinton–Lawrence, second time.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Once again, I would say to the Leader of the Opposition, I actually do understand why he would want to lower himself to make personal, divisive attacks, because he cannot take on the challenge of talking about climate—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Prince Edward–Hastings.

Finish, please.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I have been crystal clear, Mr. Speaker, that we on this side of the House see it as our responsibility to tackle this threat that is probably the greatest threat that humanity has ever faced. The fact that we have taken the largest initiative in North America by shutting down the coal-fired plants doesn’t mean we can rest on our laurels. It means that we have to move ahead and we have to take initiatives that lead the country and lead the globe in terms of developing innovation and technology to tackle the greenhouse gas emissions on this planet.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the Premier: The personal and divisive comments that I was attributing are sourced to you, the Premier of Ontario, in the Globe and Mail.

Let me add one other reference to the Premier’s opinions. Liberal sources went on to tell the Globe that the Premier believes “longer-serving members of cabinet are not particularly effective communicators.” Again, I happen to agree with the Premier. Just look at the Minister of Education and how she blew millions of dollars on pizza parties and hotel rooms. Or look at the Minister of Energy, who told us that the gas plant scandal was going to cost a cup of coffee. Let’s not forget the Minister of the Environment, who told us they were going to ban both nuclear and natural gas.

Someone in this cabinet leaked this ridiculous plan to ban natural gas. So instead of throwing one of these ministers under the bus, is the Premier going to take responsibility for this cabinet leak and the ridiculous plan to ban natural gas?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke, second time.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, the comments attributed to me about my team are false. I made it clear when I was in Alberta that we have no intention of banning natural gas.

Here’s what we’re going to do with the bus: We’re going to make sure the bus is clean, we’re going to make sure that it’s emissions-free and we’re going to make sure that we have a province that is a leader in fighting climate change—something that that party has opposed at every turn.

Energy policies

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. The Premier did not run on a platform to sell Hydro One. In fact, she stood in this House and said straight from her own lips that it was not for sale, and she promised, at the same time, that she was going to be open and transparent. Eighty per cent of the people of Ontario want to keep Hydro One public, and over 200 municipalities say the same thing. Not a single Ontarian voted for the sell-off of Hydro One, but today, for the very first time in the history of our province, private shareholder meetings are happening across the street because this Premier broke her promise.

Will the Premier do the right thing and stop selling off any further shares of Hydro One?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that the leader of the third party knows that I ran on a platform that was designed to invest in infrastructure across this province. What that means is to build transit, to build roads and bridges, and we talked about assets—

Mr. Paul Miller: You never mentioned Hydro.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Hamilton East–Stoney Creek.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: We talked about a review of assets that was going to generate revenue to allow us to make those investments.

The leader of the third party was clear about that because she started opposing it right from the get-go. She opposed those investments in transit, she opposed those investments in expanding the northern highways and she opposed those investments in hospitals and schools around the province because she fundamentally opposed the investments in infrastructure that are so desperately needed for this economy.

That’s what we ran on, and that’s exactly what we’re doing.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, what I fundamentally oppose is a Premier who is not telling the truth to the people of this province around this—

Interjections.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I withdraw. Speaker, I withdraw.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m going to ask the member to withdraw because you can’t say indirectly what you can’t say directly.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I did actually withdraw, Speaker, and I do withdraw.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: What I actually fundamentally oppose is a government that doesn’t tell the people of the province their intention to sell off a revenue-generating asset that belongs to the people of this province.

What I also fundamentally oppose is a Premier who is not paying attention to what the Financial Accountability Officer of this province says, which is that, in fact, the worst way to try to fund infrastructure is to sell off a revenue-generating asset in the province of Ontario. That’s what I fundamentally oppose.

My question is, why is this Premier not standing up for what is best for the people of this province?

Premier Wynne: Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: Mr. Speaker, we’ve been clear all along that we want to maximize the value of assets owned by the people of Ontario to better produce value to reinvest in new assets to have even greater returns. That’s exactly what’s happening. In fact, we now have a corporation that is more improved and more customer-focused. It has greater investments and has increased value for the shareholders, who are the people of Ontario right now. It has unlocked billions of dollars needed—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Hamilton East–Stoney Creek, second time.

Minister?

Hon. Charles Sousa: It’s unlocked billions of dollars of needed capital to invest in infrastructure, which the member opposite has opposed. More importantly, the foregone revenue the member talks about is in fact being made up by greater returns that are being had as a result of the investments that we make.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Selling off Hydro One will shoot the rates through the roof. It happens every time there is a privatization of hydro, regardless of where in the world it has happened. It started with Mike Harris right here in the province of Ontario, and this Premier is finishing his job.

It is bad for families. It is bad for businesses. It is bad for Ontario’s bottom line, says the Financial Accountability Officer. The independent Financial Accountability Officer says it will actually cost us money. It means a bigger deficit and less money for transit and infrastructure.

The evidence is clear. The Liberal claims simply are not based in reality. They are nothing but Liberal Party spin. Will this Premier stop the sell-off before it is too late?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Talking about spin, the member opposite knows all too well the Ontario Energy Board actually sets the rates. It won’t be Hydro One. She also knows that we’re doing this in tranches to minimize the risk, unlike what happened with the sale of the 407.

We still retain the largest ownership of Hydro One, a much more improved company, and the markets have indicated that the reaction to the Hydro One process is making it more valuable, is providing even greater dividends to the province. No one can have more than 10% ownership of Hydro One, which minimizes the very risks the member is talking about.

The majority of the province, the majority of the company is still owned by retail investors that are Ontarians, as well as the province of Ontario. It’s better for the province. It’s more money for infrastructure. It’s better for our economy.

Hospital funding

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Back to the Premier—but I have to say our priority is people, not the markets. It’s people, Speaker. That’s what should be important.

Ontarians want to know that when their loved—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order.

Please carry on.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Ontarians want to know that when their loved ones need care, their hospital is safe and it’s been properly repaired.

Records show—the ones that New Democrats got—just how much repair work is needed at each hospital in Ontario. Collectively, it’s over $3.2 billion of repair backlogs, but the government has censored which hospitals actually need the work.

Will this Premier actually be open and transparent, show Ontarians the respect they deserve and release the complete list?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Well, I know what the leader of the third party is suggesting. She wants to reveal, in advance of any bidding process, to potential contractors, to bidders—she wants to reveal what the hospital, the Ministry of Health and the government think is the cost of renovating or improving or maintaining a facility—to give that unfair advantage in a bidding process, which would enable those potential bidders to actually reflect what they believe they can get rather than the best price, which is what government should be looking for.

But it’s important to note as well that when we look at the issue of deferred maintenance, it doesn’t simply represent a total of all the necessary repairs required to enable a hospital to deliver quality services. It represents the dollars that would be required to upgrade all hospitals in Ontario to “brand new hospital” status.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: This has nothing to do with contractors; it has to do with the rights of people to know what’s happening in their local hospitals.

Yesterday, the Minister of Health told reporters that hospitals with the greatest repair needs include entirely new builds. He apparently clarified this a little while later to say that some of this might be in places where hospitals may actually be replaced. But of course, the government isn’t releasing the names of those hospitals, so the Liberals are asking Ontarians to just take their word for it. We don’t know if a hospital that needs $200 million in maintenance is slated to be replaced in a year, in 20 years or at all.

Until the government releases the facts, they’re expecting Ontarians to just trust them. Will this Premier show Ontarians the respect they deserve and release the complete list?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Mr. Speaker, I know that the leader of the third party wants to completely disrupt, if not destroy, the competitive bidding process. It would be completely inappropriate, for example, for a new build as well, to actually provide a dollar-value estimate from the government in terms of what we think is required to build that new hospital or to renovate it. It’s just ludicrous, quite frankly, Mr. Speaker.

I’m proud of this government’s record of past investment. We have 35 new or highly renovated hospital projects under way in the province right now as we speak, Mr. Speaker. We’re investing $12 billion in new capital spends over the next 10 years—$100 million each and every year just specifically for maintenance.

As I mentioned, for deferred maintenance, it would be the example of your house, of what it would cost to rebuild your house so it is in brand new status. That’s a very different thing than what’s required to provide quality health care.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, more than $3.2 billion is needed to fix our hospitals just to keep them safe and prevent imminent breakdowns. That was what was reported in the FOI that we received from this minister’s staff and his ministry. He had better read the FOI that we received.

According to the auditor, Ontario is falling behind each and every year when it comes to making those investments. In fact, the auditor said, “In the last five years, hospitals spent on average $45 million a year of operating funds”—that should be going to patient care—“on capital and other funding needs.” This is happening at the same time that the Liberals froze hospital operating budgets, Speaker, for four straight years.

When will this Premier and this minister cut the spin and admit that the Liberals are failing to properly fund hospital repairs?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Mr. Speaker, it’s precisely in response to our agreement with the Auditor General’s report that we put substantial new funds into the budget that was recently approved. So I’m not sure what the leader of the third party is referring to and why they chose not to support a budget that agreed with the Auditor General, that invested more money, $12 billion in capital, doubling the deferred maintenance from $50 million a year to $100 million a year. We’re making those investments, notwithstanding them voting against the budget. We responded to the Auditor General’s report.

We’ve responded to the needs that have been identified for us and on our behalf by the hospitals across the province.

It’s important to recognize what deferred maintenance is. It’s an estimation, on a go-forward basis, for a whole slew of activities that may need to be replaced in the coming years. We’ve got a plan to do that in an orderly, responsible fashion that maintains the quality of care.

Government accountability

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Good morning, Speaker. My question is for the Premier.

This morning, the Financial Accountability Officer confirmed what we here already know: This government is neither open nor transparent. He said it is “highly disappointing” that instead of looking to maximize information disclosure, this government restricts disclosure. This impedes “the ability of MPPs to perform their ... duties of holding the government to account.”

They have repeatedly missed reporting requirements under the Fiscal Transparency and Accountability Act since 2012. They cancelled the gas plant scandal hearings, removed Legislature officer oversight on Hydro One, and regularly stonewalled the FAO and Auditor General from receiving necessary information.

I ask the Premier: Are cabinet leaks and criminal investigations the only way we can ever get the real facts here?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Let me talk about the Financial Accountability Officer. We have a real respect for this office. The member opposite knows that we worked—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Finish, please.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Ministries work closely with the FAO. The member opposite knows that we worked with the opposition parties. We recognize, during a minority Parliament, that we worked together to establish the office of the FAO. Both the legislation and the office of the Financial Accountability Officer were modelled after the parliamentary budget officer.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Member from Leeds–Grenville.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: That was the agreement and the discussion that we talked about with the opposition. It is the office, and the parameters of his job and of that office are modelled after the parliamentary budget officer. That is the work that we did together.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Member from Leeds–Grenville, second time.

Supplementary?

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Back to the Premier: The FAO told us that there is “a broader pattern” of refusals for access to information. He also said the government’s stonewalling has made it “difficult ... to assess the plausibility of the government’s financial projections and to evaluate risks that ... those projections would not be met.” He doesn’t trust their numbers.

The FAO said the government is withholding documents and shocked us, Speaker, by saying he believes this is “political direction.”

This is unbelievable. From backroom deals to stonewalling officers of the Legislature, this government only does what’s best for the Liberal Party.

Speaker, will the Premier end this pattern of obstruction and give the FAO the necessary documents to do his job?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: I want to reiterate that we work very closely with the Financial Accountability Officer—the first of its kind in Canada for a province to undertake.

Additionally—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Mr. Speaker, we respect the work that the Financial Accountability Officer does for our province. That’s why we put in place the opportunities to have more forward thinking and review of the actions that we take.

Additionally, we will be sending a government-wide directive to all offices to ensure that offices are responding to the FAO in a consistent and timely manner. To be clear: Requests for information from the FAO are responded to by non-partisan officials, not by the political staff.

During the minority government, all parties worked together to establish the FAO and the legislation that governs the office. We are working within those parameters. We’ll continue to work collaboratively with the FAO on an ongoing basis and we will provide the information that we’re allowed.

Government accountability

Ms. Catherine Fife: My question is to the Premier. Speaker, the NDP fought hard to ensure that this Legislature and MPPs have a Financial Accountability Officer here. New Democrats believe in independent oversight. When the legislation was written, no one expected the Premier and the Liberal government to deny the Financial Accountability Officer the information he needs to do his job.

This morning, the FAO called a news conference and he said, “It is highly disappointing that instead of looking to maximize the information that the government can provide to MPPs and through them all Ontarians, the government is focusing on how it can restrict disclosure of information.”

Why is this Premier trying to undermine yet another independent watchdog?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: Mr. Speaker—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Charles Sousa: We value the work that the Financial Accountability Officer does. We are working collaboratively with them. We recognize the necessity for a timely manner in which information is received. We also recognize the duty that we have in regard to confidentiality requirements in the work that we do. I know the members opposite respect that, and if they don’t they should. We will continue to work with the Financial Accountability Officer to provide the information necessary—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke is warned.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): You’ve got two.

Hon. Charles Sousa: Mr. Speaker, we’ll continue to work with the FAO, as we always have.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Catherine Fife: The Liberals have tried to undermine the Auditor General of this province. They have fought with the Ombudsman’s office. Now they’re refusing to give the Financial Accountability Officer the information that he needs to assess the financial impact of this government’s decisions.

Mr. Speaker, there is a pattern here. This government seems to have a problem with transparency and accountability and openness. As the FAO has said this morning: “They are saying that they’re an ‘open government,’ and I’m saying, ‘Well, let’s see the data to show that you’re open.’”

The Premier talks a lot—a lot—about openness and transparency. Will she be open with Ontario’s independent, non-partisan Financial Accountability Officer, or will she continue to stonewall?

Hon. Charles Sousa: We will continue to work with the FAO. I talk with him on an ongoing basis. Even yesterday, my officials met with the FAO, because we recognize how important the work he does is and that he must have information on a timely basis within the confines—in fact, the FAO recently said, “I respect the concept of cabinet confidentiality,” that yes, they do need to have cabinet confidentiality. We do require some degree of confidentiality when we’re putting forward some of the issues.

We recognize as well that the FAO, as well as the Auditor General, requires information when it’s available. At this point in time, we will make everything available. A directive is being sent across the ministries to ensure that the officials, which are the non-partisan officials of this government, which does have an ongoing relationship with the FAO—to provide the information that is required within the act that that member approved and supported, Mr. Speaker.

Truth and Reconciliation Commission

Ms. Sophie Kiwala: My question is for the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs. Yesterday, I was so proud to be in this room to hear the Premier apologize to survivors of residential schools for this dark

chapter in our history and the lasting impacts it still has for indigenous peoples. The Premier announced, as part of her apology, a new strategy to bring meaningful change to the lives of indigenous people and the communities in the spirit of reconciliation called The Journey Together, Ontario’s action plan for reconciliation with indigenous peoples.

Can the minister please tell us more about this action plan and tell us why it is so important for our relationship with indigenous peoples in Ontario?

Hon. David Zimmer: I thank the member for that very important question. Since the release of the final report of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission last December, the Ministry of Ab