May 18,

GOVERNMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE

The Committee met at 6:00 p.m. in the House of Assembly.

CHAIR (Forsey): Okay, it looks like we have the red light. We are ready

to go.

This evening we are here to review the Estimates of Labrador and Aboriginal

Affairs. I will ask for introduction on this side of the Committee first and we

will begin down here.

Yvonne, do you want to have an introduction?

MS JONES: Thank you.

Yvonne Jones, MHA for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MR. BUCKINGHAM: Ed Buckingham, MHA for St. John's East.

MR. POLLARD: Kevin Pollard, MHA for Baie Verte-Springdale.

MR. LODER: Terry Loder, MHA for Bay of Islands.

MR. DINN: John Dinn, still the MHA for Kilbride.

CHAIR: We have

MR. MALLAM: Andrew Mallam, Researcher with the office of the Official

Opposition.

CHAIR: Okay.

Before be begin on this side, I will ask for a motion for the adoption of the

minutes of the last Committee meeting of May 12, the adoption of the minutes

that were circulated.

Moved by Kevin Pollard.

CHAIR: All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Carried.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: Thank you.

I would like to welcome the Ministers of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs and

your staff. What we will do is have an introduction of your staff and

yourselves, of course. We will start with Aboriginal Affairs first but you can

do all of your introductions now. When you get the introductions done, Minister,

if you want to do an address before I call the subheads, you can do that. We

will ask for the introductions.

MS POTTLE: Patty Pottle, MHA for Torngat Mountains, Minister of

Aboriginal Affairs.

MR DUTTON: Sean Dutton, Acting Deputy Minister, Department of Labrador

and Aboriginal Affairs.

MR. HICKEY: John Hickey, Minister of Labrador Affairs, MHA for Lake

Melville.

MR. BOWLES: Ron Bowles, Assistant Deputy Minister, Labrador Affairs.

MS OXFORD: Krista Oxford, Executive Assistant to Minister John Hickey.

MR. GOVER: Aubrey Gover, Assistant Deputy Minister, Aboriginal Affairs.

MS STOKES: Donna Stokes, Executive Assistant to Minister Patty Pottle.

MR. OLIVER: Val Oliver, Public Relations Specialist, Department of

Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs.

MR. TOMPKINS: John Tompkins, Director of Communications, Labrador and

Aboriginal Affairs.

MS POTTLE: Good evening.

As Minister of Aboriginal Affairs it is my pleasure to be here today to

discuss the Estimates of the Aboriginal Affairs branch of the Department of

Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs.

Aboriginal issues remain a high priority for the Government of Newfoundland

and Labrador as we work together with Aboriginal governments and groups to

improve the quality of life for Aboriginal people. It is important to point out

that the majority of activities within Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs,

including land claim negotiations which are the responsibility of the Aboriginal

Affairs branch, take place in collaboration with other provincial public bodies

I am pleased to note that in the areas of Aboriginal land claims and

self-government, we continue to make historic progress. The continuing

implementation of the Labrador Inuit Land Claims Agreement and the eventual

completion of the land claims and self-government agreement with the Innu will

provide Inuit and Innu with access to resource royalties and impact and benefits

agreements. The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has made great progress

in settling the land claim with the Innu.

The initialling of the Tshash Petapen or New Dawn Agreement in September of

2008 was an historic milestone. The New Dawn Agreement resolved major issues in

the Lower Churchill Impacts and Benefits Agreement, Upper Churchill redress

agreement and provincial issues in the land claim agreement in principle. This

paved the way for initialling the legal text of these three agreements.

We have continued to work with the federal government and the Innu to resolve

the outstanding federal issues of the land claim. This past March, it was my

great honour to be on Parliament Hill in Ottawa to represent the Government of

Newfoundland and Labrador and our Premier at an historic announcement that

marked a giant step forward in reaching a land claims agreement for the Innu. I

witnessed the completion of a financial agreement between the federal government

and the Innu Nation signed by the hon. John Duncan, Minister of Indian Affairs

and Northern Development, and Joseph Riche, Grand Chief of the Innu Nation. This

agreement advances the Innu land claim agreement into the final stages of

completion. It also serves as a major step forward for the Lower Churchill

generation project. I understand the Innu Nation are now making preparations to

bring the agreements arising from the Tshash Petapen or New Dawn Agreement

reached between the Innu and the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to its

membership for a ratification vote.

On the Island portion of the Province, we continue to participate in

self-government negotiations with the Miawpukek First Nation and the Government

of Canada. I am pleased to report that these negotiations continue to proceed in

a positive manner and we look forward to its eventual conclusion. As minister,

my role within government is to bring the Aboriginal lens to all activities of

government that concern Aboriginal people. I believe it is an essential

perspective, one that has proven results throughout Newfoundland and Labrador.

Some recent initiatives in which I have been working with my colleagues in

other departments include: an investment of $2.2 million to place five full-time

mental health and addictions counsellors in Nain, Hopedale, Makkovik and

Natuashish and to provide the necessary accommodations and supports; $1.2

million has been committed for Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation to

construct four public housing units for low-income residents requiring smaller

housing units in Hopedale. This investment represents a first step towards

addressing a need identified through the Poverty Reduction Strategy

consultations that took place in the fall of 2010. It also builds on an

investment in Budget 2010 which provided funding for the construction of four

new social housing units for Nain.

An investment of $357,000 will support programs and services in the Innu

communities of Natuashish and Sheshatshiu. This builds on the success

experienced in the continuation of projects in Sheshatshiu, such as the Innu

Healing Path initiative. It also demonstrates how the Government of Newfoundland

and Labrador is dedicated to offering specialized services and programs that

meet the needs of Aboriginal people; $656,000 will be provided over the next

three years to support Memorial University's Native Liaison Office which

provides Aboriginal students all from within Newfoundland and Labrador with

information on services, course selection, registration, tutoring and

accommodations and serves as a centre for social and recreational activities for

students while they are in the St. John's area.

A commitment of $6.3 million has been made to support ongoing remediation

efforts at the former military site in Hopedale with funding of $2.2 million in

Budget 2011-2012 and an allocation of $2.1 million and $2 million in each of the

following years, respectively; $1 million has been allocated for the

implementation of a three-year Labrador caribou management initiative with a

total three-year commitment being $1.9 million. This funding will allow for

enhanced data collection of the George River Caribou Herd; $360,000 to increase

safety and security at ten transition houses, three of which are in Aboriginal

communities of Nain, Rigolet and Hopedale. This builds on our enhancements to

these communities, including our recent announcement of the construction of a

new shelter for Hopedale; and $195,300 will provide for two intake workers to

oversee and manage mental health addictions referrals in Labrador West and Happy

Valley-Goose Bay.

As one can see, the influence of the Aboriginal Affairs Branch continues to

influence policies and directives throughout government.

For the fiscal year 2011-2012 notable Aboriginal Affairs initiatives

identified in the Aboriginal Affairs grant's

section includes $1.5 million for

an assistance plan for Inuit communities on the Northern Labrador Coast where

homeowners face unique and difficult challenges associated with the registration

of home heating oil tanks to meet compliance with the heating oil storage tank

regulations. This assistance will greatly reduce cost for homeowners to a figure

more in keeping with other parts of Labrador.

There are $100,000 to assist in the updating of an Aboriginal consultation

policy and other Aboriginal consultation activities. An updated policy will

guide consultation with Aboriginal organizations whose asserted Aboriginal

rights have the potential to be affected by development in Newfoundland and

Labrador.

As well, under the Labrador Inuit Land Claims Agreement Implementation there

is $213,500 in funding for the Torngat Wildlife and Plants Co-Management Board;

$213,500 for the Torngat Joint Fisheries Board; $52,000 for a commissioner's

public hearings on the draft Land Use Plan for the Labrador Inuit Settlement

Area; $34,000 for the Dispute Resolution Board, which will deal with any

disputes under the Labrador Inuit Land Claims Agreement; $20,000 for the

Regional Planning Authority for the Labrador Inuit Settlement Area to complete a

draft Land Use Plan for submission to the provincial and Nunatsiavut

governments, and it is anticipated that work will conclude by the end of

September of 2011; and $6,500 for the Appeals Board to hear potential appeals of

decisions respecting the implementation of the Land Use Plan for the Inuit

Settlement Area.

With that, thank you, Mr. Chair, and I would like to now turn it over to my

colleague, Minister John Hickey of Labrador Affairs.

MR. HICKEY: Thank you, Minister, and Mr. Chairman.

I am pleased to appear before you and discuss the Estimates of the Labrador

Affairs Branch of the Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs.

My mandate, as the Minister of Labrador Affairs, is to oversee government's

involvement in Labrador through all government departments and to advocate for

the progress in all areas: socially, economically and culturally. A Labrador

voice at the Cabinet table speaking for Labradorians is producing substantial

results. The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador will have spent more than

$3 billion in Labrador since its first Budget in 2004, a major investment by any

governments' standards.

Nearly all of the activities of this department, including the implementation

of the Northern Strategic Plan, or NSP as we call it, for Labrador, require

collaboration with other provincial bodies and in some cases with Aboriginal

demonstrates the provincial government's strong commitment to address the needs

of Labrador, to improve infrastructure, advance social programming, and foster

economic prosperity.

Since its launch by the Premier and myself on April 20, 2007 the NSP has seen

an increase in commitments from 145 to 231. When first announced, the NSP was

estimated to be an approximately $250 million investment in Labrador throughout

the course of its five years. Today it is now expected that more than $632

million will be invested.

The following are a number of Budget 2011 investments under various

departments which, through guidance and direction from our Northern Strategic

Plan, are adding to this government's unprecedented level of investment in

Labrador: $68.2 million provincially plus another $3.5 million in federal

funding in order to complete the widening and continuation of the hard surfacing

of Phase I of the Trans-Labrador Highway; we will continue to provide for

subsidies totalling over $20 million annually to reduce the cost of electricity

and home heating for residents in coastal Labrador communities; $3.4 million

will be invested provincially and will lever an additional $1.5 million in

federal dollars to complete the highway realignment at Pinware River on the

Trans-Labrador Highway in Southern Labrador; $2 million to complete a new weigh

scale inspection facility near Wabush; and $2.1 million in a new inland fish and

wildlife enforcement division to enhance enforcement measures designed to

protect Newfoundland and Labrador's valuable fish and wildlife resources,

including specifically for Labrador an additional $1.3 million investment in the

Inland Fish Enforcement Program to protect valuable salmon, trout, and Arctic

char stocks in Labrador.

The Northern Strategic Plan for Labrador provides a vital focus for

government on areas of priority and also provides an essential focus on public

priorities. It supports the strategic direction of the Department of Labrador

and Aboriginal Affairs. It also serves to increase accountability to the public

for this government's progress in Labrador.

In March of 2010 we released a Northern Strategic Plan progress report based

on the advancement of commitments up to December of 2009. The release was

supported by community information sessions throughout Labrador. Information and

consultation with Labradorians is a key component in the success of the Northern

Strategic Plan. In fact, Labrador Affairs staff made nearly fifty trips

throughout Labrador last year, not including the travel I carry out as the

Minister of Labrador Affairs or the travel carried by the Aboriginal Affairs

Branch and my colleague, the good Minister of Aboriginal Affairs.

Labrador Affairs is responsible for ensuring that the goals and objectives

set forth in the Northern Strategic Plan are monitored and completed. Staff

oversee the monitoring and reviewing of all commitments, and track the progress

of the plan and monitor its financial progress. Each year new commitments are

added to the plan to support its existing goals and objectives. As we enter the

fifth and final year of the Northern Strategic Plan, we will continue to monitor

and review its progress and also avail of the opportunity to assess what has

been achieved through the strategy.

The NSP has helped the provincial government to provide focus and direction

of priorities with positive outcomes that are transforming the region. There

have been several major accomplishments since the NSP's inception. Some

highlights include the opening of Phase III of the Trans-Labrador Highway; a

pilot project featuring a year-round ferry service between Labrador and the

Island, of course across the Strait of Belle Isle, and establishing an air

ambulance and medevac team in Happy Valley-Goose Bay. Other large scale

infrastructure investments include a new hospital and college at the North

Atlantic campus for Labrador West; schools in Port Hope Simpson and L'Anse au

Loup; and a Francophone school in Happy Valley-Goose Bay.

For the fiscal year of 2011-2012 major initiatives identified within the

Labrador Affairs include: $360,000 for the Labrador Snowmobile Trail Grooming

Subsidy Program; $230,000 for the Air Food Lift Subsidy; $120,000 re-profiled

from Budget 2010 to construct a groomer shelter in North West River; $100,000 in

operational funding to the Combined Councils of Labrador; and $60,000 to support

efforts to host the Northern Development Ministers' Forum taking place in Happy

Valley-Goose Bay in August.

The Northern Development Ministers' Forum enhances co-operation between

development. This forum provides an opportunity to discuss how we can work

together to improve social and economic conditions in our communities while

demonstrating environmental stewardship. I am pleased to host these meetings in

Central Labrador and look forward to the opportunity to showcase the Lower

Churchill Project and other resource opportunities that are in store for the

region.

With respect to our Air Foodlift Subsidy, I would like to take the

opportunity to point out that as a result of the federal government

restructuring its food mail subsidy program, the Government of Newfoundland and

Labrador has made adjustments to the provincial Air Foodlift Subsidy program or

known as the AFS. The AFS helps provide consumers in remote Labrador communities

with nutritious, perishable foods at a reasonable cost.

would be replaced by the Nutrition North Canada program effective April 1, 2011.

The introduction of the Nutrition North Canada program made adjustments to the

AFS necessary which are retroactive to April 1, 2011. The adjustments will be

implemented and monitored on a one-year pilot basis. Officials from the

Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs have been in contact with

retailers and wholesalers to inform them of the pilot project.

To align with the federal Nutrition North Canada program, the NNC Category 1

list of eligible food items is being adopted for the AFS. As a result, the AFS

will now subsidize some new items while some items that were on the previous

eligibility list will no longer be subsidized. The majority of eligible food

items remain unchanged. The AFS will continue to provide an 80 per cent air

freight subsidy on eligible food items from the NNC Category 1 list and 100 per

cent air subsidy will continue on fresh milk to retailers and wholesalers who

participate in the federal NNC program under the NNC subsidy has been applied.

The AFS will now operate year-round as opposed to the previous structure of

providing the subsidy during the winter months when the marine service ceased

operations. However, the AFS program for The Straits and South Coast of Labrador

remain status quo. It will be initiated when and if there is an extended,

continuous interruption in marine service due to mechanical or weather delays or

prolonged road closures on the Trans-Labrador Highway due to inclement weather.

The monitoring and evaluation of the AFS is ongoing and carried out by the

Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs and officials across a number of

provincial departments.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and we are available now to discuss details of the

Estimates.

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister Pottle and Minister Hickey.

Just for the record, I have to introduce the Chair as well; I neglected that

the first time around. It is Clayton Forsey, District of Exploits.

With that, I will call for the subhead.

CLERK (Ms Murphy): Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR: Subhead 1.1.01.

We will start with Aboriginal Affairs. When you are responding to a question

it is a good thing to give your name, like I just did, for the record. It is

always a good thing to do. If you can remember to do that it would be great.

With that, Yvonne, do you want to start?

MS JONES: Thank you.

Actually, I am going to start with 1.1.01, which is the Minister's Office, so

either can answer it. In terms of the Purchased Services, there was $8,000

budgeted and $37,000 spent. Can you just outline for me what that money was used

for in the last budget year?

MR. DUTTON: The main cause of the differential was the cost of the

minister's blind trust. That is not a budgeted item but it is something that we

are obliged to cover in the department's budget.

MS JONES: Okay. The blind trust, for which minister and was it a total of

$31,000?

MR. DUTTON: It was for Minister Pottle, and the total was $29,285.

MS JONES: That is the only question under that heading.

The next heading 1.2.01, which is Executive Support, the increase in Salaries

there, was that just a normal increase each year, step increases, or was there

something else there, an additional position or something like that?

MR. DUTTON: Do you mean the increase for the 2011-2012 Estimates?

MS JONES: Yes.

MR. DUTTON: Yes, it is just the 4 per cent increase.

MS JONES: Okay. How come it has gone down this year?

MR. DUTTON: Pardon?

MS JONES: How come it went down this year? The salary was $668,800, it

went up to $761,300, and you are saying it was because of the increases or

whatever, but how come the same amount is not budgeted this year?

MR. DUTTON: No, excuse me. The 4 per cent is an increase on the base

budget of $668,800.

MS JONES: Okay, to $695,000.

MR. DUTTON: The revised total was more than budgeted because the

department had to cover the cost associated with a retiring employee. That was

partly offset by the savings from the deputy minister position not being paid

out of this department but out of Intergovernmental Affairs, but there was still

an overrun. It was a one-time expense.

MS JONES: Okay. What was the position the person retired from and has it

been refilled?

MR. DUTTON: It was the previous Assistant Deputy Minister of Aboriginal

Affairs.

MS JONES: Okay. I can see that it has been filled.

The only other question under that particular

section is the $10,000 that is

budgeted for Purchased Services. What would that normally be?

MR. DUTTON: Normally, these costs would include photocopiers, printing,

entertainment, things of that nature.

MS JONES: Okay.

I am just wondering, because it is double what you actually spent last year.

I am just wondering if there was anything special that you were budgeting for or

if it is just a normal carryover.

MR. DUTTON: No, it was just normal, but because of the low amount it is

an easy thing to go over on. In some of the smaller costs, like Supplies and

Purchased Services, typically you may go over or under but they are pretty small

amounts. So it only takes one unusual purchase to go back up to the total.

MS JONES: Okay. That is all the questions I have there.

Under

section 2.1.01, the Aboriginal Affairs section; I know, Minister

Pottle, when you were giving your overview you did give us the breakdown of

where all of this money was in the Budget. So some of my questions may be

repetitive in terms of what your answers might be, but I just want to get a

clearer understanding of each category, where the money is actually coming from.

Under Professional Services, first of all, you are budgeting $38,700 this

year. I am just wondering what that money would be used for? That would be

2.1.01.05.

MS POTTLE: The public hearings for the draft Land Use Plan did not go

ahead this year, did not take place, so that is rolling over into this fiscal

year now, 2011-2012.

MS JONES: Okay.

What Aboriginal government was that, the Innu or the Inuit?

MS POTTLE: The Inuit.

MS JONES: The Inuit, okay.

So, it will go ahead this year?

MS POTTLE: Yes.

MS JONES: Okay.

Under Purchased Services, again I know you outlined a lot of this but I was

not quite sure what category, so maybe if I could get a breakdown of the

Purchased Services, the $1.5 million.

MS POTTLE: It is approximately $1.5 million that is going towards the

HOST regulations for the five Inuit communities on the North Coast, for bringing

compliance for the heating oil storage tanks.

MS JONES: Okay.

That is for the inspectors?

MS POTTLE: Inspectors, yes.

MS JONES: Can you tell me what is included in that? If I am a resident

today, for example, in your hometown and I am not conforming to the oil tank

inspection regulations, what am I entitled to now under this program in terms of

meeting that regulation?

MS POTTLE: Right now, what we have announced, we have a tender called for

pre-inspections. That tender closes on May 24. The inspector would go into the

communities and do a pre-inspection, and we are hoping that the inspector will

be able to certify some of the tanks at that point to meet the deadline of

August 31 whereby it is single wall, double wall, the issue there. At that time

the inspector will also identify which residential homes need upgrades, need

replacing and that sort of thing. There is more detail to come out and they will

be coming out within the next couple of weeks. We are going to be going into the

communities, the Inuit communities, and revealing the further details to this

plan.

MS JONES: Okay.

For example, if I live in Hopedale today and I cannot afford to get my oil

tank replaced, you will send an inspector in to do a pre-inspection, tell me

what I have to have done, basically. Am I on my own to get that done, or can I

apply here for some money to get that work done to buy the tank, to do what

other things I need to have done? Is that an included expenditure?

MS POTTLE: That is included as a part of it. We are looking at how that

is all going to unroll. There was a provincial program, province-wide, where

they could apply to Newfoundland and Labrador Housing for that assistance for

low-income homeowners, and we will have a similar plan available to the

residents up on the North Coast.

MS JONES: Then when the work is done, the inspector will go back and do

the inspection and approve everything, right?

MS POTTLE: Yes. Our objective is to get the tanks certified so that they

meet regulations and that they can put fuel into their tanks and heat their

homes, yes.

MS JONES: Okay.

How many people fall into that category?

MS POTTLE: We are estimating about 700 tanks upon the North Coast. All

residential homeowners on the North Coast will, hopefully, fall in the category

of pre-inspection. They have to agree to get this done or whatever, so we are

estimating around 700 tanks. We will see what the details roll out with regard

to the assistance plan. It will depend on income, but we are looking at other

options, other things in getting the tanks to the North Coast because that is a

challenge in itself too. You cannot go and buy tanks or parts or supplies in the

community right now. It is just not available, so we are looking at assisting

the communities' homeowners in that part of it and also transporting the tanks

to the communities.

MS JONES: For people who already did the work on the North Coast, do they

get their money refunded or anything like that, or that is just done now; if you

have it done, great, and we are just dealing with the ones who do not have it

done.

MS POTTLE: If you have it done, great, you are a step ahead. For some

reason, you had the resources to be able to do that or whatever, you piggybacked

up off of whomever was in the community. From what we have gathered, there are

very, very few who are registered.

MS JONES: Okay.

Most of the money there is for that program. Is there anything else there

under Purchased Services besides that particular program?

MS POTTLE: That is the public hearings (inaudible).

MR. DUTTON: Under Purchased Services for 2011-2012, we also have some of

the funding for the Regional Planning Authority. They have $6,500 set aside for

their operations. As well, the minister referenced in her introductory remarks,

the commissioner's public hearings on the Land Use Plan for the Inuit Settlement

Area; there is a $20,000 budget for that as well.

MS JONES: Okay.

Under the Grants and Subsidies, can you give me an idea of what is included

in the $567,000 that you have budgeted?

MS POTTLE: I am sorry; could you repeat that, please?

MS JONES: Under the Grants and Subsidies it was $567,500; can you give me

an idea of what that money will be spent for?

MS POTTLE: The Aboriginal Consultation Policy is one and the Labrador

Inuit Land Claims Implementation Committees: the Wildlife and Plants

Co-Management Board, the Joint Fisheries Board, Dispute Resolution Board and

things like that, that all falls under that category.

MS JONES: How come it is reduced a little bit this year over last year?

What was the reason for that?

MS POTTLE: This year we do not have the Suicide and Detrimental

Lifestyles Grant money there. That program is being reviewed and we have had

some other initiatives on the go. Health and Community Services has their $2.2

million for addictions officers going right into the Aboriginal communities on

the Coast. There was also one-time funding went to Nunatsiavut Government back

in February for various suicide initiatives that they have on the go in the

communities as well.

MS JONES: Okay.

I just have a couple of other questions and I know they crossover other

departments, so you can either answer them or you can refer them; that will be

fine. This year you guys budgeted $1.2 million for four public housing units in

Hopedale. I am just wondering what the long-term plan is for low-income housing

in some of the other communities on the northern region of Labrador as well?

MS POTTLE: Well, that money is being budgeted through Newfoundland and

Labrador Housing, $1.2 million.

MS JONES: Yes.

MS POTTLE: The same thing we had in last year's Budget. It is a huge

issue up on the North Coast. We have been working with the communities and we do

not have a needs assessment, per se. If you recall back when the Off-Reserve

Aboriginal Housing Trust money was there, there was money put aside to do a

study for all Aboriginal peoples in the Province, but nobody came forward to do

that.

the Nunatsiavut Government, a needs assessment for the Inuit communities. In the

meantime, to help with some of the issues, we are putting four new social

housing units in Nain and in Hopedale, the two communities with the greatest

need.

MS JONES: Okay.

I heard Chief Simeon Tshakapesh on the radio back a couple of months ago

talking about the shortage of housing as well in Natuashish and Sheshatshiu. I

am just wondering if there are any plans to do any work there in terms of the

housing piece?

MS POTTLE: Natuashish is a reserve community, so it falls under the

jurisdiction of the federal government.

MS JONES: Yes. You would not be aware, though, if there are any plans to

do anything there right now, would you?

MS POTTLE: No, not specifically. I know that they are looking at

different options. They are talking with a company, I think, in Halifax on

prefab homes or whatever. They did a carpentry course up in Natuashish this past

winter where I think they trained fourteen, fifteen people in the community to

do a carpentry program. They are in discussions with the federal government in

putting some more money towards housing in their community. They have addressed

and are addressing the mould issue that they identified in their community as

well. They have been working on this for quite some time now and making some

progress.

MS JONES: Okay. Thank you.

Also, under the federal mental wellness program again, like I said, I know

it is not directly relative but you may know. The federal government announced

it was going to spent $1.2 million, I think it is, on programs around

alcoholism, violence, crime prevention and so on in the Labrador Grenfell health

and Nunatsiavut health commissions. I am just wondering what kind of programs

they are looking at. Are you aware of what they are planning on doing with the

money or what kind of programs they are putting into the communities?

MS POTTLE: I do not know directly what programs they want to deliver in

the communities but I know this is a major issue for them. Initiatives that are

ongoing that the Nunatsiavut Government are trying to do in their communities,

the Innu Nation are doing in their communities, they are trying to do

community-based initiatives to help address the situation and they are applying

for funding from various governments, including the provincial and federal

government and having success with it.

MS JONES: Okay.

When you were making your opening comments you mentioned the caribou study

that is ongoing, or going to start I suppose, I am just wondering where that is.

Has it started yet, or what is the time frame around it?

MS POTTLE: I was very pleased with the announcement of that money in the

Budget because the George River caribou herd is a very important staple food for

the Aboriginal people, and all Labradorians. What we do here and put money

towards is to address - because of the decline, to address the issue is

something that was vey well-received by the Aboriginal groups and by

Labradorians in general, but as far as I know, I do not think it has started

yet.

MR. DUTTON: No. As I understand it, the Department of Environment and

Conservation is planning additional consultation with stakeholders, including

Aboriginal groups, on how they are going to proceed with the initiative.

MR. HICKEY: I just want to make a comment, if I could, on that particular

point. Yvonne, there has been work done this spring; there have been monitoring

of the herds. There were also a number of collars that were replaced because

some of the collars, the batteries had gone dead or wolves had taken out a

caribou with a collar. There were a number of collars replaced, but work has

started and we expect that work will continue as we move through the migration

of the herd. As Minister Pottle said, it is a high priority for our government

and also with the Government of Quebec. We are working closely with the

Government of Quebec and their biologists over there because, as you know, the

herd is a joint herd that is managed between both of our provinces.

MS JONES: Well, one good thing this year is that we did not have a lot of

Quebec Innu coming in and raiding the herd, which was

MR. HICKEY: We did not have anybody getting any caribou this year.

MS JONES: Yes, which was good; but I am just wondering, the season closed

at the end of April. I do not know if you would have the numbers, I am just

wondering how many animals might have been taken this year and if that is

reasonable, or if there are further reductions being looked at?

MR. HICKEY: Minister Pottle may have certain information from North Coast

communities, but I can say that from Lake Melville, Labrador West, and Churchill

Falls there were very few animals taken this year. A few people in North West

River managed to get a few animals. The snow conditions were such you could not

get in on the land because there was just no snow. The caribou did not migrate

down as they had in other years, and the numbers are just not there. Yes, I

would say we would be lucky if there were 300 animals killed in Lake Melville,

Churchill, and Lab City. I am not sure about the North Coast now, Patty might...

MS POTTLE: On the North Coast it is pretty much the same, very limited.

You did have hunters go in a number of times and come out with nothing, but very

determined to go look for animals. They would come out probably with three or

four animals and that would then be shared amongst their families. Right now the

Nunatsiavut Government does not have a tracking system but I think they are

encouraging hunters to report the numbers that they kill. I know the numbers

have definitely been down this year.

MS JONES: Do you think there is going to be some different guidelines put

in around the hunt in the Nunatsiavut area as well? We saw new regulations this

year in Lake Melville which applies to everybody else in Labrador, of course. In

the Northern region, do you think there is going to be some regulation around

that before next season or do you think it will just be left open as it is now?

MS POTTLE: They did go in and have consultations with each of the

communities and had these discussions with them. As far as I know right now it

is status quo, but everyone is conscious about the reduction in the herd and

just doing what we normally do, is protect what we need to rely on into the

future. Until I think they see abuse, it will probably stay the way it is.

MS JONES: Okay. Thank you.

You also mentioned about the Hopedale radar site remediation. I know there

was money in the Budget this year and so on. Can you give me an idea of what

kind of cleanup work is going to occur with that money, what it is you have

budgeted to do there?

MS POTTLE: We have $2.2 million for this year, tenders will go out soon.

The tender for the consultant has gone out now. They have a stakeholder group

comprised of the Department of Environment and Conservation, Labrador and

Aboriginal Affairs, Nunatsiavit Government, and the Inuit Community Government

of Hopedale all sit on this stakeholder group. They are putting together their

work plan and they have already discussed it for the coming year. They are

looking at some more marine work they need to do and start the cleanup of some

of the hot spots of the PCBs in the community.

MS JONES: Okay.

Will all of that get done this season or is it over a couple of years?

MS POTTLE: Right now it is over three years.

MS JONES: Okay.

Just a couple of other questions; one was the money that was allocated for

specialized justice programs in Natuashish and Sheshatshiu. Can you explain to

me what kind of programs they are? I think it was $357,000.

MS POTTLE: Yes, it is money coming from the Department of Justice built

on what they have already been doing with the Innu Healing Initiatives.

Sean, did you have anything else? What exactly the programs are they are

going to be delivering in writing to their communities, right?

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MS POTTLE: It is an initiative they are working on with the Department of

Justice. I do not have all the details on where directly that money is going to

go.

MS JONES: Okay.

There was also $100,000 for Aboriginal consultations, people affected by

industrial development. Can you explain to me what those consultations are all

about, where they are going to occur, what was the catalyst for it, kind of

thing?

MS POTTLE: It is to strengthen our consultation policy we have within

government. We want to build on that. We have a lot of development on the go, so

a lot of industry is unsure where to go, where to turn, whatever. We want to

strengthen our relationships there, even our networking within government, when

we go out to work with Aboriginal groups. So, when you talk about the George

River caribou herd and whatever, our consultations, we need to strengthen that.

That is some of the money that is going to be used in bringing the Aboriginal

groups together in how we should develop this plan, how to strengthen it.

MS JONES: The only other question is from the Estimates again, 2.1.01,

02, Revenue-Provincial, right at the bottom. What would you be looking to get

money from, I am just wondering what that was?

MS POTTLE: Well, there is going to be some money come back from the HOST

oil tanks. We will have some revenue come back from homeowners because we are

not covering it 100 per cent, we are covering it to bring it on par with other

parts of Labrador. If you have some homeowners who can afford to contribute to

this, they will be expected to. So we expect some revenue back from that. We had

an employee in our department who worked with Nalcor, so we will get some of the

funding how does that work?

MR. DUTTON: Yes, that is right. Last year, one of our employees, a

director, had been hired from Nalcor and there was a transition period during

which we had to reconcile his salary, so the salary was recovered from Nalcor

for that period of time. That was a one-time. That was the $10,700 in revenue

for 2010-2011.

MS JONES: Okay, thank you.

That is all the questions I have for Aboriginal Affairs. I have some

questions for Labrador Affairs, so will I just continue?

CHAIR: Thank you, Yvonne, and thank you, Minister.

I guess there is no need for her to stay if she do not want to - if you do

not want to stay, Minister Pottle, you and your staff.

We will begin with your questions to Minister Hickey, Yvonne.

MS JONES: Thank you.

Section 2.1.02.05, Professional Services, you are budgeting $40,000 this

year, can you explain what that money will be used for?

MR. DUTTON: For the 2011-2012 item?

MR. HICKEY: Yes.

MR. DUTTON: There is some one-time funding for the Northern Development

Ministers' Forum to organize the forum registration logistics for six months.

That is what accounts for the increase.

MS JONES: Okay, thank you.

Did you hire someone additionally to do that, or are you just hiring a firm?

How is that working?

MR. HICKEY: That is all done internally, Yvonne.

MS JONES: Okay.

Under Purchased Services, you are spending $218,000 this year. Again, it is

the increased costs associated with the ministers' forum, is it?

MR. HICKEY: As well, we have the lease for our building in Happy

Valley-Goose Bay that has gone up.

MS JONES: Okay.

MR. HICKEY: So that we have to go back out to tender, so the price of

that has gone up substantially.

MS JONES: Okay. Are you relocating or are you still in the same building?

MR. HICKEY: No, we are still in the same building but the price of course

MS JONES: Went up.

MR. HICKEY: - went up.

MR. DUTTON: The lease runs out in November and we are being told by

Transportation and Works that we have to re-tender. The marketplace is expecting

a lot more, so we have budgeted for a pro-rated increase for that period and

this item for the following year's budget that will show up throughout the

twelve months. By that time, we will also have a firm number on what the lease

will be going out for those future years.

MS JONES: Okay, good. I hope it works out, I hope you do not have to go

through a move. It would be pretty difficult.

OFFICIAL: I hope we do not either.

MS JONES: Under Grants and Subsidies on that section, you budgeted

$844,000 this year. Do you want to explain to me what is normally covered under

that amount of money?

MR. HICKEY: Go ahead, sir.

MR. DUTTON: Sure. We had a decrease from some one-time funding for the

winter trail subsidy. That is the main difference for the year. This would also

include our funding for the Air Foodlift Subsidy, that amount remains unchanged.

The differences are mainly in one-time reductions in the winter trails funding.

MS JONES: Can you give me what the breakdown is? How much is for winter

trails, how much is for the Air Foodlift Subsidy?

MR. DUTTON: The Air Foodlift Subsidy annual budget is $230,000. I think

the minister mentioned in his remarks for Labrador Affairs that the snowmobile

trails I think it is $326,000 if I remember correctly. This would also be

where we would fund the Combined Councils annual grant.

MS JONES: Theirs is $100,000 or $150,000?

MR. DUTTON: One hundred thousand dollars for the Combined Councils.

MR. HICKEY: Three hundred and twenty-six thousand dollars for the

Labrador snowmobile trail subsidy program.

MS JONES: Okay.

MR. HICKEY: One hundred and twenty thousand dollars certainly was for the

construction of the groomer shed in North West River; $100,000 for the

operational funding for the Combined Councils of Labrador; and $60,000 for the

support efforts to host the Northern Development Ministers' Forum.

MS JONES: Can you provide for me what the winter trails budget has been

for the last three or four years in the department? You said it went down a bit

this year, but I do not know what it was last year, I cannot remember that. If

you do not have it, you can just send it to me whenever, it does not matter.

MR. HICKEY: That obviously depends on whether we get snow or not, but we

still maintain the groomers; we still spend some money to try to keep the

maintenance up on the groomers and the different parts.

Certainly, we can supply that information. That is not a problem, Yvonne.

MS JONES: I am just wondering where the numbers are. I realize that if

you do not have snow, you do not spend as much.

On the Air Foodlift Subsidy, you mentioned in your comments about some

changes -

MR. HICKEY: Just before we go on, the ADM (inaudible) which I think is

significant, there are some numbers we have here. Since we have them here, it is

just as well that we give them to you.

MS JONES: Yes.

MR. HICKEY: For instance, we had aids to the navigation committee in Mud

Lake, $5,000 regarding signage; the Makkovik Inuit Community Government, signage

for trails north of Mulligan was $15,000; Rigolet Inuit Community Government,

Rigolet-Mulligan trail upgrades, $30,000; Labrador White Bear Development

Association, trail upgrades for Normans Bay-Williams Harbour, $30,000; for an

overall of $80,000.

We just looked at the trails from Hopedale to Postville, Makkovik, of course,

there was nothing done on that because the sea ice did not come in and it was

just unsafe to go out there, period. We had open water in Hopedale in January.

Postville to Burnt Lake to the turnaround, we spent $15,500 there; Makkovik to

Burnt Lake to the turnaround was $84,000; Rigolet to Mulligan was $36,000; Goose

Bay to North West River, $10,000; Cartwright to Black Tickle, $43,000; the Black

Tickle intersection, Black Tickle, $34,000; Port Hope Simpson to Williams

Harbour, Charlottetown, $30,000; Normans Bay to Charlottetown, $25,000; and the

trail on Mud Lake Road over to Mud Lake, $10,000. Then we have major equipment

repairs of $32,900, and then of course we had some miscellaneous expenses for

the Williams Harbour residential Air Foodlift Subsidy program $13,000, for a

total of $351,000.

MS JONES: Also, on the Air Foodlift Subsidy, when you were talking you

were saying some of the eligible foods have changed. With the federal program,

their new program Nutrition North or whatever it is -

MR. HICKEY: Yes.

MS JONES: Nutrition North Canada or something is it?

MR. HICKEY: Yes.

MS JONES: Does that affect our program at all? Will they run coinciding

with each other? Can you claim under both programs? I am not sure how it works

now.

MR. HICKEY: Well, what will happen now is that basically the food will be

brought to the airport. At the airport then of course, that is done with the

wholesaler. What we tried to do is take some of the paperwork away from the

retailers and put it on the wholesaler. What we are saying is the wholesaler

will be responsible for getting the aircraft to charter it out to and to put in

the claim for the subsidy on the food.

As far as what we are subsidizing, much of the list is the same. What we have

decided to do is take the AFS program and the Nutrition North Canada program and

try to work with the federal program. As I said in other comments I have made on

this particular issue, interviews I have done on it, is that we are going to

work with the federal government here on this because this is a very new program

for them. At the end of the day, our mandate obviously is to ensure that the

subsidy has passed on to moms and dads in the community to provide nutritious

food for their children in these communities.

As far as the AFS program, we will continue to provide the 80 per cent air

freight subsidy on eligible foods. Items from the NNC Category 1 list and 100

per cent subsidy will still be as we mentioned earlier, on fresh milk to the

retailers and wholesalers who participate in the federal program. This year we

are budgeting some $230,000 for the Air Foodlift Subsidy. So, we have not

changed that.

MS JONES: Okay.

How is it going to work now? Even with the provincial program now, the

subsidy will go to the wholesaler. That is what you are telling me?

MR. HICKEY: Yes.

MS JONES: It does not go to the retailers any longer in the communities.

MR. DUTTON: Yes, the distinction between the two, the Food Mail program

was being built into the rate. The retailer that was participating in the

program previously was already paying a subsidized air freight rate to begin

with. When they would send in their weigh bill, we would calculate 80 per cent

of the difference, what was left over, and that would be the subsidy that would

go back to that retailer.

Wholesalers are now eligible because wholesalers and retailers are eligible

under Nutrition North. Instead of this being built into the rates with Canada

Post and shippers, they are going to claim back the same way that our program

had worked. We have seen initially that some of the wholesalers are absorbing

the freight cost and invoicing the retailers, reflecting the subsidy they are

going to later receive from Nutrition North because they have to claim back.

Although, I think they got an advance payment for April 1 to get started. As

long as their paperwork from the retailer shows what the actual freight cost was

after the federal subsidy is applied, then we can just continue to pay it to the

retailer. If a wholesaler decides not to do that, then we may be able to deal

with the wholesaler directly.

In the long run, if we are able to get a data-sharing agreement with Indian

and Northern Affairs for administering that program, we may be able to find an

easier way to administer it so that it will require less paperwork for the

individual retailers. The extent to which we can continue to deliver the subsidy

either to the wholesaler or retailer will just depend on which one is absorbing

the shipping cost.

MS JONES: Okay. Say I own a store in Nain, for example, and I am going to

order food out of Goose Bay, and I am going to order it from a wholesale

company. They are going to bring it to the airport and fly it to Nain for me.

Then they are going to bill me for the portion of the freight they cannot get

back on their subsidy.

MR. DUTTON: Right.

MS JONES: But can they claim the subsidy provincially and federally, or

can you only claim one subsidy?

MR. DUTTON: Our subsidy would be 80 per cent of the difference, so we

need to be able to determine what actual subsidy they get from Nutrition North

to calculate that difference. In milk, it would be 100 per cent. We are not

paying 100 per cent of the gross cost, but the net cost after the federal

subsidy is applied.

MS JONES: Okay.

With milk the Province would pay 100 per cent of the freight subsidy -

MR. DUTTON: Right.

MS JONES: - and with other commodities it would be 80 per cent, is what

you are telling me.

MR. DUTTON: Right.

MS JONES: That would be 80 per cent after the federal subsidy is taken

out.

MR. DUTTON: Right.

MS JONES: Okay.

It is quite the administration that is going to have to go on there.

MR. HICKEY: We have one person, one of our staff, and it has been very

successful. As a matter of fact, we just did - just so you know - a review. We

have talked to many of the retailers and we have gotten some very positive

comments back so far; having said that, we are trying to find a way to be

transparent, because at the end of the day we are not interested in a program

where the benefits do not go back to the moms and dads in the community. That is

really where our heads are, and we are adamant about it.

One of the things I have been a strong advocate for is the transparency of

it. We hope to be able to get to that point and this is something we are

discussing with the federal government, but we will be able to monitor the costs

of standard food baskets in the communities to make sure that we, at the end of

the day, that if someone is buying an apple in Hopedale or in Nain, or in any of

the communities on the South Coast that are participating, that they are getting

good value for the money they are spending, one; and two, is that it is at a

reasonable cost. That is just the purpose.

MS JONES: You said the program would be year-round now in the Northern

communities but I guess that includes Black Tickle and Williams Harbour as well,

right?

MR. HICKEY: Yes.

MS JONES: Okay.

MR. HICKEY: It will include the other communities on the coast too,

Yvonne. If we get, as we did just a little while ago with the Apollo,

when she was not running across The Straits we implemented for the other

communities along the coast when that transportation link was down or the road

was closed. That will still cut in as normal.

MS JONES: Yes. Did you get anybody to take up the government on that

program? I know it was only for a couple of weeks but -

MR. HICKEY: I think there was. I could certainly find out, but I

understand there were a number of people, stores along the coast that did

participate.

MS JONES: Yes. Can you get that information for me? I would like to know

if they did participate, or if they did not, and what the cost of it was to

implement it during that period of time. You did not touch on the Mealy Mountain

Park. It is up to you if you want to answer the questions, but I am just

wondering where the talks are right now with the feds on the Mealy Mountain Park

issue.

MR. HICKEY: Well, I would say after today the talks will be better than

ever they have been before, at least I would hope that they are. I know there is

work being done on both national parks. We are working closely, and Minister

Pottle has had a number of discussions with Nunatsiavut and Parks Canada

regarding the Torngat National Park. The Mealy Mountain National Park, there is

work being done on it. I know because one of our staff members has just gone off

to Parks Canada for two years now.

There is work being done on that, and obviously, there is work and planning

ongoing for the provincial waterway park adjacent to the Mealy Mountain National

Park. It is a work in progress and we are going to continue to push for

discussions with the federal government. I know talking to Peter Penashue, the

new Member of Parliament, that it is certainly a priority of his to make sure we

move this along as quickly as possible.

MS JONES: Yes. I was just wondering if the Land Transfer Agreements are

completed, the federal-provincial Land Transfer Agreements and the negotiations

with Nunatsiavut, NunatuKavut and with the Innu.

MR. DUTTON: We have an agreement on the notional boundary for the park.

That was the announcement Minister Prentice and Minister Hickey had made, I

guess it was the year before last. We do not have a Land Transfer Agreement

negotiated at this point. Both governments are getting organized to prepare

their negotiating mandates and it is expected that would be probably a one or

two-year process. All of the Aboriginal groups you mentioned were part of the

steering committee and I think there is general support for the boundaries that

were proposed in that announcement.

MR. HICKEY: Just from a tourism perspective, I spoke to the Minister of

Tourism, Culture and Recreation a couple of days ago and he was telling me that

the ad we did on the Torngat Mountains, the television ad there, thirty seconds,

we have had more hits on that particular site than all the other sites we have

in the Province.

The other thing we have also asked Tourism, Culture and Recreation is to

start looking at the possibility of starting to do more promotion, high-end

promotion video. I noticed last month in the Canadian National Geographic

there was a nice photo presentation and a story there on the Mealy Mountain

National Park. We are continuing to support it, we are continuing to promote it,

and we think there is going to be large benefit for the people of Lake Melville,

but particularly the people of Cartwright and along the Coast of Labrador as

this park becomes more defined and people throughout the world will start to

learn about it.

MS JONES: Okay. That is all of the questions I have. I just want to thank

you ministers and your officials, and I appreciate the time.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

MR. HICKEY: Thank you.

CHAIR: Thank you, Yvonne.

I thank the ministers and your staff.

We will call for the subheads.

CLERK: Subhead 1.1.01 to 2.1.02 inclusive.

CHAIR: Subhead 1.1.01 to 2.1.02 inclusive.

Shall the total carry?

On motion, Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs, total heads,

carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report the Estimates of the Department of Labrador and

Aboriginal Affairs carried without amendment?

Carried.

On motion, Estimates of the Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs

carried without amendment

CHAIR: For the information of our Committee, we have another meeting

tomorrow morning, Wednesday, Intergovernmental Affairs and Non-Profit for 9:30.

With that, I will ask for a motion for adjournment.

MR. LODER: So moved.

CHAIR: So moved.

Thank you.

On motion, the Committee adjourned.