Manitoba Hansard — 24 May 1989 (Sitting 4, 34th Legislature, 2nd Session)

34-2-4

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, May 24, 1989. The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS READING AND RECEIV ING PETITIONS Mr. Speaker: I have reviewed the petition and it conforms with the privileges and practices of the House, and compl ies with our rules. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read ? Disp ense. Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): On a point of ord er, Mr. Speaker, wou ld you kindl y read the petition? Mr. Speaker: Ord er, please; order , ple ase. Is it the will of the Ho use to have the petition read ? (Agreed ) Mr.

Clerk (William Remnant): We, the unde rsigned , urge and reques t the Go vernment of Manitoba to reverse its decision to elimi nate the General Insur ance Divis ion of the Manitoba Public Insu rance Corporation inasmuch as: 1 . The Division has experienc ed a sign ificant fina ncial turnarou nd and has sho wn a net income of $1. 5 milli on for the first nine months of the 19 88 operating year. 2. Many small bus inesses, persons in rem ote communit ies and others wou ld not be able to obtain adeq ua te general insu rance coverage from the pri vate sector at acce ptable rates. 3.

There will be a serious loss of jobs in the province, including 55 in Bran don, with a payroll of $1. 5 mill ion, which will ha ve a detrimental effect on those emplo yees as well as the economy . MINISTER IAL STATEMENTS AND TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Jame s Downey (Mi nister of Northern Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the Annual Report 19 87- 88 of the Department of Northern Affairs, as well the Communitie s Ec onomic Development Fund 19 87- 88, and McKenzie Seeds for the year ending Octo ber 31, 19 88. Hon.

Charlotte Oleson (Minister of Family Services): I wish to table the Annual Report for 19 87 -88 of the Mani toba Com munity Services Depart ment. * (1 335) 52 INTRODUCTION OF BILLS BILL NO. 3-THE HIGHWAY TRAFFIC AMENDMENT ACT Hon. Albert Drie dger (Minis ter of Highways and Transportation) introd uced , by le ave, Bill No. 3, The Hig hway Traffic Amendment Act; Loi mod ifiant le Code de la route. BILL NO. 6-THE LAW REFORM COMMISSION ACT Hon. James Mccrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General) introduced, by lea ve, Bill No. 6, The Law Reform Comm ission Act;

Loi sur la Commis sion de refo rme du dr oit. (Recom mended by His Honour , the Lieutenant-G overnor .) BILL NO. 7-THE INTERNATION AL SALE OF GOODS ACT Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney Gener al) in troduc ed , by leave, Bill No. 7, The International Sale of Goods Act;

Loi sur la vente internationale de mar chandis es. BILL NO. 8-THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Natural Resources) introduc ed , by leave, Bill No. 8, The Endange red Species Act;

Loi sur les esp ec es en voie de disp ari tion. (R ecom mended by His Honour , the Lieutenant Go vernor .) BILL NO. 9-THE FOREST AMENDMENT ACT Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Natural Resources) introduc ed, by leave, Bill No. 9, The Forest Amendm ent Act; Loi mod ifiant la

Loi sur les forets. BILL NO. 11-THE ELECTORA L DIVIS IONS AMENDMENT ACT Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier) introduced, by leave, Bill No. 11 , The Ele ctoral Divisions Amend ment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les circons criptions electorales. INTRODUCTION OF GUESTS Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions, may I di rect the Honourable Mem bers' attention to the gallery where we have from the Garden City Collegia te twenty-ei ght Grade 9 students under the di rection of Mr. Rod Kormyl o. This school is lo cated in the constitu ency of the Honourable Member for Kil donan (Mr. Cheema).

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. We also have with us this afternoon from the Bannatyne School fifty-two Grade 6 students under the direction of Sylvia Allard and Monique Renaud. This school is located in the constituency of the Honourable Member for Sturgeon Creek (Mrs. Yeo). Also with us this afternoon from the Killarney School , twenty-seven Grade 9 students under the direction of John Ross . This school is located in the constituency of the Speaker (Turtle Mountain) . On behalf of all Honourable Members, we welcome you here this afternoon. *

(1340) ORAL QUESTION PERIOD CN Rail Layoffs Minister's Intervention Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the Minister of Highways and Transportation (Mr. Albert Driedger) . The federal Government and its agencies persist in attacks on rural Canada . Again, as with the defence cuts , Manitoba is going to be severely hit; 413 CN workers will be laid off in Manitoba . Provided they are prepared to move , 225 will be rehired, but 188 will not. Thirty northern centres will lose all permanent track maintenance workers. Mr.

Speaker, these layoffs come as a shock to all Canadians, especially after having received assurances from both CN and from this Minister that there would indeed not be any layoffs in this province . Can the Minister tell the House this afternoon what action that he has taken, since learning of these layoffs, in the form of phone calls or letters to the President of CN and to the Ministers of Labour and Transport at the federal level in order to avert these layoffs and will he table the letters? Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Mr.

Speaker, it is with great disappointment that I became aware of the tragic layoffs that are slated for Manitoba . However, I would like to indicate to the Leader of the Opposition (Mrs. Carstairs) that possibly she should get some of her facts straight, because I was in touch with CN today and there are 1,480 permanent positions that are being deleted or where there will be layoffs in Canada . One hundred and ninety-three of these will be in Manitoba . I think it is very tragic because a lot of these layoffs will basically impact on the small communities .

In fact , I have 10 jobs that will be deleted in my constituency , so I have a real feeling for this. I was in touch with CN, and the layoffs have basically been triggered by the fact that the CN is trying to reduce costs , to be competitive in the transpor tation industry. I find very little comfort in that. However , I indicated when I spoke with the vice-chairman of CN that my concern was for the people who were being laid off, because many of these people who are laid off in small rural. communities do not have an opportunity to pick up jobs in the local areas, and I think that makes it twice as tragic. 53 *

(1345) I just want to indicate that I asked for some assurances to deal with the employment factor for these people. The vice -president indicated that 172 of the 193 positions in Manitoba will be employed on a seasonal basis for six months, that they will be looking at early retirement for some of these and different pl acements for some of the other employees . Unfortunately , there are going to be some people who are going to be hit . I am very concerned about that and will continue to try and see whether we can get positions for these people . An Honourable Member: Hear, hear! Mrs.

Carstairs: I can only assume from his answer that the Minister has been in touch with neither the federal Minister of Transport nor the federal Minister of Labour. CN Rail Layoffs Relocation Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Opposition): My supplementary question to the Mini ster of Rural Development (Mr. Penner) , in ligh t of these and his Government 's intention to a commitment to rural development , will he obtain guarantees from the railway that those employees offered new jobs will be relocated in rural Manitoba? Hon.

Jack Penner (Minister of Rural Development): The employment of our people in rural Manitoba and the depopulization of rural Manitoba is a concern to all of us. All Members of this House, I think , share the concern that the yard lights in rural Manitoba are being one by one switched off. It is our intention, as the Province of Manitoba, to put in place actions that will stem that. It is certainly a concern to me, as well as my colleagues , that CN is now laying off people in those small rural towns and villages and that individuals would be adversely affected .

I can assure you that I will do everything in my power to convince the federal Minister , as well as CN, to make sure that they make every effort to retain these employment opportunities in those communities and, if necessary , help retrain those people to do other jobs in Manitoba. CN Rail Layoffs Safety Record Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Opposition): With a supplementary question to the Minister of Highways and Transportation (Mr. Albert Driedger) , Mr. Speaker, CN has been using old running stock , some of it is 35 year s old .

This has resulted in an increased number of accidents and overheating , resulting in brush fires . Now 30 northern communities will be without any permanent maintenance workers . Can this Minister tell the House how the safety of rolling stock, the safety of our natural resources will be maintained without adequate personnel?

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. Hon. Alb ert Drie dger (M inister of Highways and Trans portation): I have some di ffi culty with that ques tion because I cannot see how people in the rural areas are not doing the mai ntenance on these units. We have the shops in Transcona that are basically maintai ning our rol ling sto ck. I do not know how our people who are work ing on the lin es are going to be res ponsible for the safety of the rolling sto ck. I do not know what the Leader of the Opposition (Mrs. Carstairs) is basically referring to. Mrs.

Carstairs: We are talking about the mai ntenance of the li nes and the safety of the li nes when the stock go es over the li nes. Mr. Speaker, with a supp lementary ques tion. An Honourable Member: Aging stock on de teri orat ing li nes. Mrs. Carstairs: Exactly . Mr. Speaker: Order , ple ase; order , ple ase. Minister's Awareness Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Opposition): A supp lementary question to the Minister of Hig hways and Transportation (Mr. Al bert Driedger), and perhaps he can ans wer this one.

In No vember of la st year, the Min ister ind icated that to his knowledge there wo uld be no layoffs at CN. At the time the Minis ter added that CN had ag reed to meet with him to negotia te any layoffs before the y took pla ce as promis ed . When did that meeting take place when he learned of these layoffs to CN? Hon. Al bert Driedger (M inister of Highways and Transportation): Mr. Speaker, I ind icated la st year that I had met with the of ficials from CN and that they had ind icated to me that they wou ld meet with me and inform me prior to any major layoffs that wou ld be taking pla ce in the province.

I met with Mr. Frank Campbell from CN two weeks ago, when he ind icated that under the ad minis tration align ment that they were doing, there wou ld be changes taking pla ce, and he indic ated that the net lo ss at that time would be appro xima tely three or four positions to Manitoba. That was two weeks ag o. Mr. Speaker, I was not aware of the fact that there was rational ization ta king pla ce. In fact , the only way that this came about, that we became aware of this, was because CN offi cials had me t with union off icials on a confidential basis.

Somebody decided to leak the informa tion, which is fair enough because I do not think that should be confidential informa tion, but this is what happened . I did not become aware of the situation until late last night when he came back from Calg ary. * (13 50) 54 Minister's Intervention Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Opposition): Wel l, Mr. Speaker, with a supp lement ary question to the Min is ter of Hig hways and Transporta tion (Mr. Al bert Driedger), all the mor e reason why he should have been in touch with the Minister of Transport sinc e CN is breaking its promis es to the Minister to inform him.

When will he get in touch with the Minister of Transport and la y before the Minister of Transpor t that Manitoba will not have its Cabinet Ministers abus ed in this fashion? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh! Mr. Speaker: Order , please; ord er, please. Hon. Alb ert Drie dger (M inister of Highways and Transportation): Mr. Speaker, I have to express regret that I was not informed sooner of the impending layoffs, and I expressed that regret to CN based on the comm itment that I made to myself. I have been in touch with them tod ay.

I will also be gett ing in touch with the federal Minis ter of Transpor tat ion to exp ress my di sappointment on the way this has been brought about . I think that if the normal cou rse of act ion had been foll owed th roug h, pos sibl y I wou ld have ha d the op portunity to meet with them. This was the first mee ting that took pla ce and the first ind ication that came forward from CN, the way I have been made aware of it. Unfortun ately , I became aware of it through the information the way it came about through the media and through leaked informa tion.

I am very dis appointed with that and I intend to take that issue up with the federal Government as well as with CN. Mrs. Carstairs: We have to hope that his counterpart takes his phone call. CN Rail Layoffs Labour Adjustment Strategy Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Oppositi on): With a final suppl ementar y ques tion to the First Minister (Mr.

Fil mon), we have repeatedly been asking this Go ve rnment to impl ement la bour trai ning and adjustment programs to assist those workers who have lost their jobs because of plant closu res, which have pl agued this province over the past year: Canada Packers, Ogi lvie, Wescott, Marr's, Toro, Marks and Spencer, Mols on's, Wardair , and now CN. My quest ion to the First Minis ter, in view of the CN layoffs, will he now consider impl ementing a full scale job and labo ur adjust ment strategy to assist those workers who, because of federa l-pr ovincial economic poli cy, are out of work in this province? Hon.

Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, no one in this Cham ber enjoys se eing jobs lost in this province for any reaso n, whether that be for adjust ment in terms of the market, adjus tment of firms to try and become mo re competitiv e so that they can retain other jobs. None of us want to see labour adjust ments that involv e

Wedne sday, May 24, 1989. people out of work . However, we as the Government are fully comm itted to pro vide the full range of servic es that we have for retr aining, for red eplo yment of people, tor assist ing them through the commit tees that we set up re gard less of when there is a ma jor loss of emplo yment. We set up comm ittees with the assistance of the people in our Gover nment, federal Government and the emplo yers.

We set work force adjustment comm ittees in pla ce to help them find new jobs, to help them train for new jobs and to help them adjus t to the chang es that have taken pla ce as a resu lt of their lo ss of emplo yment. Mr. Speaker, we are fully comm itted to that. We have ind icated in the Th rone Speech that we are going to do more towards that, and inde ed I am sur e that the Leader of the Opposition (Mrs.

Carstairs) will be pleased with some of the informa tion that will be provided when the new Est imates and Bud get come forth to this House, because we are fully comm itted to ensur e that we have a compr ehensiv e range of assistance and sup port for anybody who should lo se a job for whatever reason in this provi nce. * (13 55) Sport Policy Advisory Committee Steroid Use Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Second Oppo sition): I look forward to the Liberal sup port on our plant closing legisla tion. In terms of real ly helping the people, the wo rking people and fam ili es, we have to not only deal with these issues.

We have to report them to the publi c because this Go vernment is out of touch. My ques tion, Mr. Speaker, is to the Minis ter of Sport (Mr. Erns t). The Dubin Inquir y has been going on tor almo st seven months now. There have been public revelations of a very sign ificant proportion in terms of the use of ster oids with our young people and athletic people in this cou ntry unfor tunately, and the tes timony con tinues to be prod uced on the Dubin Inquir y. In fact , Dr. Jamie As taphan, I bel ieve, is on the stand tod ay.

Last year, the Minis ter indic ated that he did not know how de ep in the system performanc e-enhancing dr ugs were util ized in Man ito ba. I wou ld ask the Minis ter, giv en that revelation la st year, when he esta bl ished a Sports Po li cy Advisor y Comm ittee that was going to deal with drugs in sports, why did the Minis ter not put anybody on that commit tee to advis e him with di rect medic al knowledge of the problem of steroid us e with athle tes in this province? Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister responsible for Sport): Mr. Speaker, I wish to advis e the Leader of the NOP (Mr.

Doer) that the reason no one went on the Sports Po li cy Advis o ry Comm ittee was that we have a Spor ts Med icine Council which is deal ing with that matter and contai ns people invo lved from sport medicine dir ectly: do ctors, we have nurses, we have physiotherapists, we have trainers, we have sports clin icians, and a wide varie ty of other people associ ated with the sports medicin e com munit y. They are the people who most properly should be looking into it, and they are doing that. 55 Mr. Doer: The Sports Medical Advi sory Commit tee has asked to be on your Sports Ad visor y Comm ittee.

They bel ieve that the mem bers of that com mittee should be di rectly informing the Minister of the activity going on. We have heard stories now that high school foot ball teams have got at least 7 percent adm ission of anabolic steroid us e in their sports teams. That is public knowledge. Steroid Use Veterinary Prescriptions Mr.

Gary Doer (Leader of the Second Opposition): We have been awaiting a stra tegy from the Minis ter over the last seven months, and I wou ld ask the Minister is he aware of any potential abuse in the sports com mun ity of the issuance of stero ids by any mem ber of the medical field in the veterinar y area of medicine? Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister responsible for Sport): Mr. Speaker , le t me say that I have rece ived nc co mmuni ca tion from the Spor t Medicine Council requ est ing to be on the Sport Policy Adv isor ) Commit tee.

The Sport Medicine Council has its own concerns, its own manda te, and we will deal with that manda te in due course. With reg ard to the se cond part of the ques tion, Mr. Speaker, I have no knowledge of anything, as suming I under stood the Mem ber corr ectly , of veterinaria n stero ids being passed on to athletes. Mr. Doer: I have a copy of the minutes of the University of Manitoba Medical Commit tee on Drug Abus e, and in the mi nutes of the meet ing on March 31, 19 89, the comments of the commit tee state the issue of anabolic steroid abus e has been mentioned to various people in Go vernment.

The comm ittee appears -t here is little problem with physicians prescri bing anabolic ster oids. However, another sou rce appears to be veteri nary medicine. That is in their minutes for March 31. Why was the Minis ter not aware of it if this is the commit tee that is advis ing on the us e of anabolic stero ids? Mr. Ernst: Mr. Speaker, that is not the com mittee that is advising me. That is not the Sport Medicine Council of the Pro vince of Manitoba. That, if I again under stand what the Mem ber has purported to and if he were just to table it I cou ld confirm it, is a commit tee started up by one Dr.

Wayne Hil dahl of his own vol ition. He is opera ting on his own volition to do those things that he sees as being necessary or required . He has invited other mem bers of the commun ity to partici pate with him, and i bel ieve the chief of polic e is one of them. That is not the Sport Medicine Cou ncil and that is not the commit tee that is advising me in this matter. Strategy Development Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr.

Speaker, while the comm ittee, which do es .include the chief of police, mem bers of the pharma ceutic al com munit y, other mem bers of the 1:iniv ersi ty, have id entified a potential problem of veterinary medicine with the anabolic steroid use, I would ask this Minis ter,

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. giv en this very major problem -a nd it is not a polit ical issue, it is a publi c issue -why this Minister has not devel op ed a st rategy , why he has separate comm ittees dea ling with this issue, why this Government has not dealt with an ov erall st rategy with the use of anabolic ster oids with our young people and athletic people, and why he is taking no action at all with his own comm ittees de aling with amateur spor t to get a coord inated strategy on a very, very se rious problem facing our young people and facing the citizens of Manitoba. * (14 00) Hon.

Jim Ernst (Minister responsible for Sport): I have no control over private citizens in this com mun ity who wish to form a commit tee to study a particular problem. We have the Sport Medicine Cou ncil. The Sport Medicine Council involv es all peo ple assoc iated with spor ts medici ne. They are the people who should _properly be advising us. If one of tho se individuals wishes to gather together other peo ple from the com mun ity and strike off on their own , that is their business. They are entitled to do that. It is st ill a free count ry. Group Homes Staffing Ms. Avis Gray (Ellice): Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of Fam ily Services (Mrs. Ole son) is aware of the su pervision dif ficulties cited by residential care providers for the mentally hand icapped . In fact , this Minis ter herself comm ission ed the Wiens Repor t to deal with these serious issues. Now we dis cover that the same Minis ter has written to all com mun ity residences and indicates a new pol icy which change s the staf fing patterns in these com munity residenc es. This new pol icy effectively reduces the ratio of client -staff in these res id ences, thereby jeopardizing the health and safety of the mentally handic apped .

My que stion to the Minis ter of Family Services (Mrs. Oleson) is, will she ex plain why she has sanct ioned this reg ressive il l-conceived pol icy? Hon. Charlotte Oleson (Minister of Fam ily Services): Yes, I did comm ission the Wiens Repor t and they report ed, and I reported to the public the findi ngs. The Mem ber perhaps cou ld provide me with that if she has that piece of corre spondence. Otherwise, I will have to take the question as notic e because I do not know what corr esp ondenc e she is talking about. Ms.

Gray: I would be quite prepared to table this letter in the House, written and signed by the Minister herself. I wonder whether she knows what she signs in terms of poli cy. Winnserv Inc. Staffing Ms. Avis Gray (Ellice): A supp lement ary quest ion to the same Minis ter, larger residenc es in this provi nce, such as Winns erv particular ly, will be penal ized by this new staf fing form ula.

Will the Minis ter-and I hesita te to ask this quest ion since she do es not seem to 56 und erstand the pol icy that she has sig ned -imm ed iately meet with Winns erv reside nts who also wrote to her on May 12 outl ining these di fficulties, and please review this particular polic y which will in fact put cl ients who are mentally hand icapped into more danger? Hon. Charlotte Oleson (Minister of Fam ily Services): Mr. Speaker, our first interest is the safety and wel l being of people in gr oup homes. I will review that matter. I do recall gett ing a letter from Winnserv.

I will review the matter and bring an answer back to the House. Wiens Report Recommendations Mr. Speaker: The Honour able Mem ber for Ellic e (Ms. Gray), with a final supp lemen tary ques tion. Ms. Av is Gray (E lli ce): Mr. Speak er, my final supple mentary to this Minister is, can the Minister reconcile today for Manitobans how she can spend $75,000 on the Wiens Report and then put in pla ce a polic y which is total ly contrary to tho se recom mendations? Can she recon cile that today in the Ho use? Hon.

Charlotte Oleson (Minister of Family Services): The Wiens Report brought some very val uable information on the state of gr oup homes, Winns erv in particular and group ho mes in general. I think that is very val uable inform ation which we can use to build our programs in the future. St. Boniface Hospital Obstetrical Capacity Hon . Don ald Orchard (Minis ter of Health ): Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Leader of the Opposition (Mrs. Cars tai rs) posed a question regard ing ob stet rical capacity at St. Bonif ace General Hospital .

I wou ld like to cor rect some false impr ess ions left by the Leader of the Opposition in posing of questions. The Leader of the Opposition ind icated that the capacity at St. Bonif ace was 2,6 00 del iveries per year. In fact, it is 4, 200 deliv eries per year. The Leader of the Opposition left the impr es sion , in phrasing her ques tion, that a hig h-risk al most del ivering mother was turned away at the last moment by St. Bonif ace. I wou ld lik e to sh are with you some facts that were pres ented to me by the hospital .

On May 18, 19 89- the Honourable Leader of the Opposition had the correct da y-a t approxima tely 2:2 0 a.m., a woman was adm itted and, in the cou rse of adm ission at St. Bon iface, was assessed as a risk factor 1 in terms of her deliv ery capabilit y. To be cla ssified as hig h-risk, as the Leader of the Opposition left the impr ession, the risk factor has to be 3 or hig her. So this ind ividual was a lo w-risk deliv ery, as assessed by medical experts at St. Boni face.

The ind ividua l was transferr ed to Victoria Hospital at 3:15 a.m. by car with her husband , not by herself as the impr es sion left by the Honour able Leader of the Opposition. The ind ividual was adm itted to Victoria Hospit al at 4: 10 that morning and del ivered her baby at 19 :56 that same da y. •

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated to my honourable friend , arrangements are in place with St. Boniface between the Misericordia Hospital. Victoria General Hospital have offered obstetrical services to St. Boniface at times of low-risk need . To raise those allegations with such incomplete information does a disservice to the fine obstetrics in Manitoba. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh! Mr. Speaker: Order, please ; order, please . The Honourable Leader of the Opposition (Mrs. Carstairs) on a point of order . Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Opposition) : On a point of order Mr. Speaker .

The Premier , the First Minister (Mr. Filrnon), from his chair, indicates "irresponsible." Mr. Speaker , there was not a single fact which was presented yesterday which was not correct. If the Premier and the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) would like to speak with the patient, who delivered a nine-pound child via forceps , then perhaps they would come to me and I will give them the information with regard to the patient. Mr. Speaker: Order, please; order, please. The Honourable Member does not have a point of order. A dispute over the facts is not a point of order. Mr. Orchard: On the same point of order, Mr.

Speaker . Mr. Speaker: I have ruled there is no point of order. Order, please. Manitoba lntercultural Council Granting Capacity Mrs. Gwen Charles (Selkirk): Mr. Speaker, yesterday in this House, I asked three very serious questions affecting our ethnocultural community in Manitoba. I did not receive proper answers . I would like to give the Minister (Mrs. Mitchelson) the opportunity today to give the answers that she would like to say. I am sorry , Mr. Speaker, I withdraw any unparliamentary language that you seem to be indicating .

I would like to give the Minister an opportunity today to respond to the questions I asked yesterday, the first question being why she would think that a board appointed by the Government will be more responsible and more accountable than a board elected by the peers of the ethnocultural community which now exists in the form of MIC . Hon. James Mccrae (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Minister of Culture , Heritage and Recreation (Mrs . Mitchelson) may indeed have something to say at this point , but let me ask you to remind the Honourable Member for Selkirk (Mrs .

Charles) that it is not for Honourable Members in the House to pass judgment on the quality of the answers given in the Question Period . Mr. Speaker: Order, please ; order , please . I believe that the Honourable Member for Selkirk (Mrs. Charles) 57 had indeed herself indicated that she realized she had breached Rule 363 of Beauchesne 's. The Honourable Government House Leader (Mr. McCrae) does not have a point of order . Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Culture, Heritage, and Recreation): I would be very pleased to answer that question. Mr.

Speaker , when the needs assessment was done and when decisions were made by Government to make some changes to the lottery distribution system , we looked at all areas of the umbrella distribution, and the Manitoba lntercultural Counc il was the only umbrella group that had both an advisory and a funding role to Government . I have discussed this many times with MIC and, although MIC would like to maintain the funding role , it was a Government decision that we wanted to separate those two areas .

The last time I met with the acting chair of MIC , he indicated quite clearly to me that MIC was reviewing its mandate and they really ·did want to get back to their main mandate , which was to advise Government on multicultural policy . So by taking the funding and putting it in another area under another advisory grants council, we are giving MIC the complete opportunity to get back to what legislation first permitted them to do and that was to advise Government on multicultural policy . *

(1410) Advisory Role Mrs. Gwen Charles (Selkirk): Can the Minister indicate , since this is an advisory group, as she wishes to have it, why she has not asked for their advice within the year of her mandate , nor has she given back any comments on advice given voluntarily by the organization? Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Recreation): Quite frankly, Mr.

Speaker, the first number of times that I met with the executive of MIC, I quite clearly asked them to come forward to us as Government and indicate what recommendations they had made in the past to the other Government, and to priorize those recommendations , to remove those that were outdated or not applicable, and to bring forward and priorize the recommendations that had been made and we would deal with them . Just very recently , received a list of recommendations that had been made to the former administration but they were not priorized .

So in a meeting with MIC just yesterday, I indicated to them that I wanted those recommendations priorized . When they gave us the priorities of the multicultural community, we would deal with them according to priority . Granting Capacity Mrs. Gwen Charles (Selkirk): Mr. Speaker, the Minister keeps indicating the intention has been given to her by MIC that they wish to have the granting funding

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. situa tion stripp ed from them. In fact, they do not ag ree with that attitude at all. Can the Minis ter explain her version of the truth? Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Recreation): Mr. Speaker, let me jus t clarif y for the Mem ber for Selkirk (Mrs. Charle

s) because I did answer that quite cle arly in my fi rst answer. I ind icated that MI C wanted to maintain the funding but we as Go vernment made a decision based on the needs asse ssment that because they wanted to maintain the funding but they also did express a real desire to want to get back to their main purpo se of advising Go vernment on mu lticu ltur al poli cy, that we made the decision as a Government to separate the two functions. It was the only um brella group that had tho se two functions, and now none of the um brel la groups have that function.

CN Rail Layoffs in Canada next to Montreal , and the impact on Manitoba is less than it is in other provi nces. That giv es me no comfort, but I will do everything I can in terms of making sur e that the impact is lessened . CN Rail Layoffs Rural Impact Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Minister of Rural Devel opment (Mr. Penner) a ques tion. He now has a pos ition , he has a name and he has to accept some resp onsi bili ty for rural dev elopment in this provinc e.

I ask him, sinc e he did not answer the quest ions tha t were posed earlier ins ofar as what action he is prepared to take, will he con tact his federal count erparts im med iately and ask that they put this decision on hold until such time as a scheme and strategy can be de velo ped for rural economic dev elopment in this provi nce so alternativ es can be provided that will repl ace the devastat ing lo sses to the Rural Imp-act-- ---- ---- sma ll com mu ri1lleS? -wrrrUilS Mi1rrste·r-crr- �urat - Develop ment ask for this to be put on hold? Will he de velop a rural dev elopment strategy? Mr.

John Plohman (Dauphin): As we revealed yesterd ay, Mr. Speaker, and as has been rais ed again in the Hous e here tod ay, devastat ing layoffs are taking pl ace at CN across Canada and particularly in the prairie reg ion of CN. While Liberal and Cons ervatives here are qui bbling over the exact num bers, the fact is that, communit y after commun ity, small com munit ies are having their own CFB bases removed .

In other wo rds, the impa ct on those small commun ities is comparable to the impa ct of removal of the CF B base from Portage to those small communit ies when you have fou r and five and six fam il ies rem oved. This is the result of contin ued federal pol icies, Mr. Speaker, in post office closu res, rail line abandonments, UIC changes that mo ve people from rural areas, a comple te capitulation in terms of economi c dev elopment in the rural areas, and this Go vernment has stood by.

I und erstand now that the Minis ter was not even consu lted on this decisi on, and I ask the Minis ter, since he has not even protested these, will he imm edia tely conta ct the federal Min ister and his provi ncial count erparts, the council of Ministers for Transportation in this count ry, for su ppor t and ask that this decision be on hold until such time as consu lt ation reviews can be done by those council of Ministers and alternativ es can be de veloped by those Ministers? Hon . Alb ert Driedg er (Minis ter of Highways and Transportation): Mr.

Speaker, I ind icated before how I felt about the layoffs that are pending for Manitoba. I feel it is tragic, and I know the im pact it will have on the rural areas. I have al ready been in touch with CN. I will co ntinue to try and work with CN. I will also get in touch with the federal Minister and look for the kind of sup port he is ind icating to see whether we can take and lesse n the impa ct that it will have on Mani toba. I just might add though that this is small comfort, but in com parison to the rest of the cou ntry in terms of the emplo yment factor, we are the seco nd hig hest CN empl oyee.

You know, we have the mo st emplo yees 58 Hon. Jack Penner (Minister of Rural Development): Mr. Speaker, the concern expressed by the Honour able Mem ber for Dauphin is a good one. The ques tion is a valid one. However, let me ask the Honourable Member for Dauphin, why is rural Manitoba in the economic shape that it is? Why have we over the past seven or eight years seen nothing but closures in rural Manitoba? Our towns and villa ges are dying.

This Go vernment has appoi nted and has de veloped a department that is going to look after tryi ng to reverse that trend that has been initiated by the previous two admin istra tions in this province, the NOP admin istra tion and by the federal Go vernment of the Day which sa id, "Sell your own wheat," pointed fingers at us and sa id, "w e do not want any thing to do with western Canad ians, " and Manitobans are forced to face those kind of economic conditions. Mr.

Plohman: The reason why rural areas are decl ining is because of Tory pol icies that have resulted in post office closu res and rail line abandonments and Via cuts and UIC change s in this countr y and a co mple te aband onment of rural econ omic devel opment initiatives. That is why the rural areas are decl ining and this Party is sit ting- Mr. Sp eaker: Order , ple ase; order , ple ase. The Honour able Mem ber for Dauphin kindly put his ques tion now. CN Rail Layoffs Rural Impact Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): Mr. Speaker , I ask the Prem ier, we have seen equivocat ing non-ans wers from these Ministers.

He has seen them stand up in this House this afternoon. I ask him will he now con tact the Prime Minister and ask if these de vas tating cuts be put on hold and alternativ e strateg ies de veloped for econom ic dev elopment so we do not see the loss

Wedne sday, May 24, 1989. and de cline of our rural commun ities worse than they have been across this province? Hon. Gary Filmon (Prem ier): Mr. Speaker, there was no gr eater de vastat ion to our rural com muni ties than du ring the past six-an d-a-half years when th at ad min ist ration with that Mem ber as a Minis ter wreaked their havoc on the people of rural Manitoba. That is why we have the problems in rural Manitoba. The fact of the ma tter is that my Mini ster of Transportation (Mr. Al bert Driedger) has ind icated that he has been in touch with the of ficials at the vice presidential level of CN.

As a result of his dis cussions of the 19 3 people who are going to be laid off, 17 2 of them will be emplo yed for the next six months, and all of tho se people will be dealt with as fai rly as possi ble to ensur e that if there are emp loyment opportun ities with CN they are gi ven first preference. He is wo rking with them positi vely , not sta ndin g up here li ke that Mem ber is, trying to make politic s with peoples' li ves. We are doing things to help those people be emplo yed and that is the kind of positiv e attitude we have deal ing with rural Mani toba. Mr.

Speaker: The Honourable Mem ber for Dau phin (Mr. Plohman), on a point of order . Mr. Plohman: This First Minister is imputing motiv es as to my reaso ns for the ques tions in sa ying that I am pla yi ng politics with the liv es of tho se people. I am concerned about tho se people in rural co mmuni ties, those fam ili es that are impa cted by Tory policies, and I want this Tory to stand up for the people of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker: The Honourable Mem ber do es not have a point of ord er. Lottery Revenues Rural Funding Mr. Gilles Roch (Springfield): Mr.

Speaker, many com mun ities in rural Manitoba have had their major sou rce of lotter y funding cut off by this Government sinc e it decided to have their so-called "family night out" casinos opera ting year round at the Fort Garry Hotel . This is bla tant di sc rimi nation ag ains t rural Manit oba. So much for this Governme nt's lip- service to rural Manitoba and rural de vel opment. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for Lotteries (Mr s. Mitchelson).

Given the fact that there was no indication of any alterna tive fundin g for rural com munity organiz ations mentioned in the Throne Speech, what plans do es the Minister have to repla ce the loss of revenues to rural organ izations from rural casinos? • (14 20) Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh! Mr. Speaker: Order , pl ease. Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Recreation): Mr. Speaker, I am quite ple ased to 59 ans wer the question that the Member for Springfield (Mr. Roch) posed .

Jus t a li ttle bit of background and his tor y on rural casinos that surrounded the City of Winnipeg , 90 percent of the people who frequented tho se casinos were people from the City of Winnipeg who went out to tho se rural areas. The only reason that there was any success at all in tho se casinos was because of the people from the City of Winnipeg, but I want to say to you that over the period of the la st few years they were losing mo ney.

They were casinos that were losing mone y in rural Manitoba and quite fran kly the commun ities were not benefitting, so a decision was made to amalgama te tho se casi no da ys into the casi no at the Fort Garry Hotel. Thos e people in rural Ma nitoba who were receiving casinos' revenues are going to be able to apply through the expanded Com mun ity Investment Fund for Lotteries funding. Mr. Roch: Mr. Speaker, the fact is that mo st were not losing mone y on those revenues and tho se 90 percent of the people went to rural Manitoba.

Can the Min ister assure this Hous e that whatever form of alternativ e funding, if any , th at cou ld be pr ovi de d to rura l organ izations will fully and equitably com pensate them for the loss of the rural com mun ity-ope rated casinos? Mrs. Mitchelson: No one throughout the provi nce is going to be receiving casi no revenues anymore except health care projects in this province, and that is what the people of Manitoba want. They wanted Lotteries dolla rs to go to health care.

All of the casino revenues in the future are going to go to health care projects for all of the people of Manitoba, and all of those groups and organ izations will have to apply through other lo tteries channels to receive funding and they will be receivi ng funding. As a matter of fact, we have an extra $900,000 through recreat ion in the Depart ment of Cultur e, Heritage and Recreat ion tha t is going to serve rural Manitoba and the . . .. Some Honourable Members: Hear, hear! Mr.

Roch: Is the Minister then sa ying that all of these co mm unities and organiza tions will receive no less than what they us ed to receive under the previous system that has now been destro yed by this Gove rnment? An Honourable Member: Hear, hear! Good quest ion. Mrs. Mitchelson: If the Mem ber for Springfield (Mr. Roch) had his facts together and his facts strai ght, he wou ld know that those casinos were making less and less mone y in rural Manitoba. I do not know what kinds of assurances he wants me to giv e them.

Does he want me to giv e them assurance that they will have mo ney that they received three years ago, or mo ney that they received la st year? If they have worthwh ile projects, they will certainly be funded. Some Honourable Members: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker: The time for oral ques tions has expired.

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. NON-POLITICAL STATEMENTS Mrs. Gwen Charles (Selkirk): May I have leave to ma ke a non-politic al stat ement ? Mr. Speaker: Does the Honourable Mem ber for Selkirk (Mrs. Charles) have leave to make a non-poli tical state ment? (Ag reed) Mrs. Charles: Toda y is the 50th anniversary of the Royal Winnipeg Ballet, and I was very pl eased to attend the reception at noon hour toda y celebra ting that ma tter.

I wou ld like to, on behalf of this House and I am sur e others will join with me, express to the Royal Winni peg Bal let our gr atitude for the service they have giv en, not only Manitobans but the wo rld. The Royal Winnipeg Bal let are the am bassadors of Manitoba to many countr ies throughout the worl d. They are a world-cl ass qualit y organization from a provi nce that I bel ieve is world class. We will look forward to very much of an extravaganza this next year as they are putting on very many spe cial events, not only in Manitoba but across the cou ntry.

I hope this Ho us e will join me toda y in congra tulating them on the 50 years they have put in and wish them all the best on the 50 years to come. Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon): I ask leave to make a non-pol itical state ment. Mr. Speaker: Does the Honour able Mem ber for Flin Flon (Mr. Storie) have leave to make a non-polit ical state ment? (Agr eed ) Mr. Storie: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the Ho use for its indulg ence.

I am proud to stand and say to the Hous e and ask the House to join me in congra tula ting a group of yo ung Manitobans who attended a National Chess Championship on Sunda y and Monda y of this current week. Three of the 12 st ude nts who attended that national championship came from a very small com munit y in northern Manitoba, the com mun ity of Snow Lake. That in itself, given the size of that com mun ity, is quite a feat but even mo re impr ess ing is the accomplish ment of tho se students.

So I wou ld like the Hous e to acknowledge the accompl ishment of the fol lowi ng th ree students: a Grade 3 student by the name of lgna ce Mo ya, who pl aced fou rth overall in Canada and was one half a point fro m second pla ce in Canada; a Grade 5 student, Mr. Gavin Horne, who pl aced seve nth overall and was only two points away from fift h pla ce; and Mr. Jason Osw ald, a Grade 7 student, who pl aced fifth overal l and was only one point away from being in third pla ce.

For three young people from a small com mun ity in nor thern Manitoba to travel to a national championship and come away with those kinds of honour s is a remarkable feat . So, Mr. Speak er , I wou ld like to send out my commendation to tho se you ng people, to the people who worked with them, including their chaperones and the cooperat ing teacher, Mr. Gary Malcol m, who teaches 60 at Jo seph H. Kerr School.

Their accom plish ment, in terms of their perf orm ance in this national champion ship, is excel lent and sh ows that beyo nd the normal accom pl ishments of the many students throughout the province in recreat ional and athletic endeav ours, students in this province cont inue to excel in mo re academ ic, esote ric skills as wel l. Chess, as most of you know, is an intellec tual game and for students at this level to achieve this kind of national promi nence is an achievement that is worthy of recog nition of all Mem bers. I ask you to recog nize this achievement. * (14 30) Mrs.

Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Opposi tion): Mr. Speaker, cou ld I have leave to make a non-po litic al state ment? Mr. Speaker: Does the Honour able Leader of the Opposition have lea ve to make a non-political statem ent? (Ag reed ) Mrs . Carstairs: There will come a time in the his tor y of this provi nce and in this countr y when we do not make special recog nition of the achievements of women , but that time has not come yet .

Therefore, I would like to bring a message to this Hous e about which, I am sure, I will have fu ll ag re ement, and that is the annou ncement toda y that the new president of the University of Winnipeg will be Dr. Marsha P. Hanen, a gr ad uate of Bro wn and Brandeis Universities in the United States, and most recently the Associate Dean for General Stud ies at the University of Calgar y. We welcome her appointment.

We wel come the appointment of the first woman president of a university in this province, and we welcome her su ccessive dev elopment at the University of Winnipeg , a univers ity in which we all take pride. An Honourable Member: Hear, hear! Mr. Bill Uruski (Interlake): Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I also cou ld have leave to for a non-pol itical statement? Mr. Speaker: Does the Honour able Mem ber for the Interlake (Mr. Uruski) have leave to make a non-pol itical sta temen t? (Ag reed ) Mr. Uruski: Mr. Speaker, I ris e toda y to ask leave for a non-political sta temen t.

I am sur e that all Mem bers of this Ho use, espe cially the Minis ters involved in the recent traged ies across Manitoba- and that is de aling with the hundr eds, and in fact probably thousands of what we wou ld call the unsung heroes in our province and tho se are the many volu nteers who took

part in wo rking to save their proper ty and their com muni ty's propert y, and worked night and da y with many of the vol unteers in the fire departments, in municipal cou ncils, and those commun ity people, farm men and wom en, all those in rural co mmun ities right across this province, in the Asherns, in the Moosehorns, in the Jackhe ads, the Fisher Riv ers, in the Manigo ta ga ns, the Seym ourvil les, in the Cowan area, right across this

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. provin ce when we were ravaged so severely by the fires of approxima tely two weeks ago. I bel ieve all Mem bers in this Ho use wou ld want to pay tri bute to all Manitobans, both work ing within the Civil Service, because I am sure they risk their liv es every minu te of the da y fighting tho se fires. I know the Minis ter Involved , the Minister of Natural Resou rces (Mr.

Enns) particul arly , a fello w ln terl aker, who has spoken out in their support both for his st aff, the other people who are invol ved in fir e fight ing, but espe cially those peo ple who left their work, left their liveli hoods and left their emplo yment to assist their com munity. I tod ay, I am sur e on behalf of all Mem bers, want to pay tribute to those unsung heroes, all those volu nteers in the Pro vince of Manitoba. An Honourable Member: Hear, hear! Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Recreation): Might I have lea ve to make a non polit ical stat ement? Mr.

Speaker: Does the Honour able Minister (Mrs. Mi tchelson) have leave to ma ke a non-poli tical state ment? (Ag reed ) Mrs. Mitchelson: I jus t briefly want to add a few comments to the comment made by the Mem ber for Selkirk (Mrs. Charles) in wishing the Royal Winni peg Balle t a happy 50th Anniversar y. I do want to say this has been a tough year for the balle t in our province with the trag ic loss of their Artistic Director , Henny Jurriens, and his wife, Judy , and lea ving behind a small child. I know tho se who have had any asso ciation with the bal let in this pro vince have felt the gr eat loss.

In spite of that, I know they have gone on and will go on to do bigger and better things. They are a real tri bute to our city and to our provi nce. We want to wish them well and another 50 years and more of excel lence in art throughout our country and inde ed throughout the wo rld. Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Second Op position): I wou ld like to rise- Mr. Speaker: Ord er, pl ease. Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health): He is afraid there are going to be some more non-pol itical sta tements to steal his thun der. · ORDERS OF THE DAY THRONE SPEECH DEBATE Mr.

Speaker: On the propo sed amendment of the Honour able Leader of the Opposition (Mrs. Carstairs), stand ing in the name of the Honour able Mem ber for Conco rdia (Mr. Doer). Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Second Op position): Thank yo u, Mr. Speaker, it is indeed an honour to join in on the Speech from the Throne. I belie ve this is my fifth oppor tunity to participa te in this deba te in three 61 short years, so it is becoming a very unusual situa tion in terms of the rapid ity of Speeches from the Throne and the cons equences thereof.

But I know it is a very impor tant respon sibi l ity and I say in some si ncerity- some si ncerity-I wish all Members well in this Cham ber. And you, Sir, In your role as Speaker, I do wish you wel l in full sinc erity in the tough job you have as the Speaker in this non partisan Cham ber. The occas ion of the Speech from the Throne is a very im portant one. It is an opp ortun ity to take stock of where we are as a country, where we are as a province, where we are for the people of this province who we are all ele cted to serve, and almost, if not more im portant ly, Mr.

Speaker, we mus t take respon sibili ty for where we are going, I belie ve, as a countr y and as a provi nce. It is also very important that this Speech from ,the Throne is the first Speech from the Throne that we have had in a post free trade era. It is also the first Speech from the Throne and the first opportun ity to deal with an environment that is a free trade environment in terms of the free trade Bud get and its effect on the people, the workingpeople and their fam il ies in our countr y and inde ed in the Provinc e of Manitoba.

I belie ve that we must talk about where our province and our people are at in an overall context of where we are as a countr y, Mr. Speaker, and where we are going as a count ry. We, on this side, are extremely worried about the Americanization of our cou ntry and the American ization of the values in this countr y and what effect that will have on the people of Manitoba. (The Acting Speaker, Mr.

Mark Minenko, in the Chair.) We are very concerned that the val ues we de veloped for hundr eds of years in this country, of a more balanced economy and a more balanc ed society between the unfettered free mar ket system that is the value and predomi nant value of the United States, and the values we have in Canada of a more fam ily kind of environment, Mr.

Acting Speaker, where you sh are and coop erate, that the value s of the free market system unfettered are becoming more the values of our countr y through the Free Trade Ag reement and , therefore, becom ing unfor tunately more the values of the way in which Manitobans and their fam il ies and their co mmuni ties are allo wed to op erate within our countr y. Mr.

Acting Speaker, I bel ieve that everyt hing we do and every thing we say and everyt hing we evalua te over time mu st be eval ua ted agains t the changing Americaniza tion of our coun try and of our province, and the changing values and for the changing im pact on the people of our province, and what that will mean for the quality of li fe to Canadians and the qual ity of lif e for Manitobans.

I bel ieve that the 19 80s, through dereg ulation in the early' 80s, which was the foreru nner for the Fre.e Trade Ag reement and the privatization in the' 80s, some of the privatizat ion and the cutbacks in health and so cial services that started in the early' 80s arid have continued on through the 19 80s in this count ry has meant that

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. we are in the slipp ery slope to Americanizing our countr y. I belie ve that we must do everything pos sible to return in the 19 90s to reCanad ianize Canada and get our prior ities back and straight, our priorit ies for people and their fam il ies and their co mmuni ties, and not for these quasi -soverei gn states that ar e running the deregulation poli cies of the former Liberal Go vernment and are running the pol icies of the Mulr oney Go vernment and affect ing Manitobans, I belie ve, in a very, very negativ e way.

I belie ve the jury is st ill out on that issue and we will eventually win it. Mr. Acting Speaker, I belie ve we have a situation in this provi nce that is a situation that we have de scr ibed for months as a do-no thing Govern ment. I think, unfor tunately, we have a say-any thing Opposition. One da y it is this position on the tax relief for corpora tions, the next da y it is tax relief for people. One da y it is this position on child care, it is another position on child care the next day.

One da y it is do not interfere with Crown corpor ations, then it is interfere with Crown corpor ations only when we are affected by Air Canada and CN. One da y it is do this on a certain issue, the next day it is do that. One da y it is fight for the environ ment, the next day it is bring in an environ ment Bill that will sel l our water to the United States. • (14 40) So, Mr.

Acting Speaker, we have a very strong challe nge as the only polit ical Party that is repres ented in all geograp hic regions, not by as many seats as obvi ously we wou ld want, but as the only polit ical Party that is represe nted in all reg ions of this provinc e-the Nor th, rural Manitoba, our rural towns of Brandon and Dauphin and the Interlake and the City of Winnipeg. We have a real responsibility to provide the balance, the positiv e balanc e between a do-no thing Govern ment and a say-any thing Opposition in terms of the people of Manitoba and priorit ies of our provi nce.

An Honourable Member: It is a no-princip les Party. Mr. Doer: We will talk about your financ e polic ies later, do not wor ry, do not wor ry. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh! The Acting Speaker {Mr. Minenko): Ord er, ple ase. The Honourable Leader of the NOP has the floor . Mr. Doer: When we menti oned the Ame rican ization of this cou ntry and this province, it is not jus t a slogan . Since the Free Trade Ag reement has been sig ned some five months ago, and cont rary to -I mean all of us want to win a politic al battle and a battle of polic y.

Quite frankly, when the polic y is over and the battle is comp leted , some of our worst pred ictions we do not want to see come true. We do not want to have 10 seco nds of a Quest ion Period and then have hundr eds of famil ies laid off. We want to be wrong about people losing their jobs. We want to be wrong about reg ions losing their support. We want to be wrong about all the nega tive pred ictions 62 we made on the Free Trade Ag reement, because it do es affect real people and real fam il ies and real com munities. Besides all the rhetoric in this House, it do es affect real people, Mr. Acting Speaker.

When we leave at the end of the day, there are famil ies that watch the six o'clo ck news and that watch the la te news, and they have to wrestle with the real reality of tho se pl ants being cl osed do wn. What am I going to do? Where am I going to work? Can I stay in this provi nce? How are we going to make ends meet ? Do I have to have my childr en go out and work earlier ins tead of sta ying in scho ol? Can I keep my kids in this child care centre? Can I keep our kids in this com munity? Are we going to have to sell our house and go move some where else? Beyo nd all the politic al and partisan rhetoric, Mr.

Acting Speaker, those are the realitie s that people are faci ng. Those are the terri ble situations we have had to face with the cl ose do wn of the Ogi lvie plant, where we met with workers who have been there 35 years. It was making mone y. It was doing wel l. If we cannot have food process ing in western Canada, where can we have it? If we cannot process oats in the West, in Manitoba, and we have to rational ize our jobs and have them go to Midl and, Ontario, what do you tell tho se workers who have been there 30 and 40 years? Oh, it is free trade, oh, it is free trade. This is the rational ization.

Some quasi -sover eign corp orat ion is going to close you down just to make more mone y, just to move the jobs to Midland, Ontario, just because they are gr eedy in terms of the profits in this count ry. There is enough to go arou nd, Mr. Acting Speaker. Ogilvie and Labatt 's cou ld keep that plant in Manitoba. They do not have to rational ize and we do not buy the excuse of the Free Trade Agreement, even though we recog nize and pr ed ic ted th at wou ld be one of the unfortu na te exam ples. Marr's Marina in Bran don, again we are se eing tha t ind ustry go to South Carol ina, I belie ve it is, Mr.

Acting Speaker. Aga in, we have many , many people affected by the loss of those jobs. We pred icted the merger of the breweries. Ev erybody said, oh no, you cannot have the merger of the breweries. In fact , we even spoke and predi cted that would happen when we were deal ing with the do mestic sale of liqu or and beer that was being propo sed by the Government, and asked them to withd raw that res olution. Do not even aid and abet, in terms of the rational ization of that industr y, but even the indus try experts have adm itted it is part of the Free Trade Agreement. We cou ld go on about pl ant cl osures, Mr.

Acting Speaker. We hear of worker and fam ily after fam ily across this province who are going to be affected by the co ntinue d ra tional iza tion, whether it is in the union ized sector, as we have mentioned , or the non union sector or the service sector. It is not jus t the union ized workers at brewerie s who are losing their jobs. It is salespeo ple, ad minis trative people, accounting people. It is people in the insur ance indus try now in some pla ces in Manitoba, it is people in other pla ces. Every one of tho se sta tistics represents a fam il y that

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. sits down at the supper table that night and is totally devastated by the new realities under this so-called free trade, unfettered economic constitution with the United States . We have seen the regional development grants . Again, we were hoping we were wrong. We have seen the regional development grants be cut back in a radical way, Mr. Acting Speaker . We have already seen the action by the United States Government in terms of the regional development grants in Nova Scotia .

We are going to see more action on the part of the United States in terms of regional development in western Canada , in northern Canada, in all the regions of Atlantic Canada because , again , we have produced the level playing field . The level playing field , Mr. Acting Speaker, is very simple . It means we have an economic constitution with the United States .

It means the nine families that control 48 percent of the stock on the Toronto Stock Exchange for Canada will determine where they are going to put their little pieces on the chessboard and will sit back and let people whimsically be cut off at the knees, and the regions that were built in this country to be much stronger than the regions of the United States will be also cut off at the knees . We only have to look at agriculture . We were told the Wheat Board would not be touched, unilaterally saw oats off the Wheat Board . We were told that transportation would not be cut.

We saw that being changed and now , again, they are floating papers again to cut back the transportation policies . We were told now we could export hogs to the United States. We have this great umbrella of free trade with the United States . You know what this umbrella says? You, Canada , are subject to free trade penalties under the United States and , United States, you are not subject to anything . Congress and the Senate could do whatever it wants , but it is ultra vires in terms of the Free Trade Agreement. It is heads we win , tails you lose , Mr. Acting Speaker . We have been saying that all along.

The fundamental reason for even the Prime Minister signing this document is incorrect and, unfortunately, when you see the actual action, it proves that . The next thing is subsidies . Subsidies is a nice term, but it is of course our health, our social services, and many of the programs we consider dear to Canadians, but we have not even seen it in the document that is in the Free Trade Agreement because we are already seeing it in the unemployment insurance. We are seeing the Americanization of the unemployment insurance. Remember during the federal election? No, nothing would be touched .

The UIC were increasing the benefits . It made a profit last year. You are lying by saying the UIC is going to be changed, you scaremongers in the New Democratic Party. Well, three or four months later , a flick of the golden pen from Barbara McDougall from somewhere down in a Bay Street office in Toronto , and there you have it, Mr. Acting Speaker, hundreds of people affected. People who were in an insurance program will now be on a welfare program , people who had the dignity .

The person we talked about at Ogilvie 's will now have to go off ·insurance , not be able to go on insurance that 63 they paid for, will have to be thrown off of that so they could put in subsidies for the corporations. Big subsidies for the corporations in terms of job creation programs will all be related to the bottom-line profit.

It will not be related to skill development in this country and real retraining strategies in a marketplace that we see in northern Scandinavian countries, in Sweden and Denmark where they have social democratic Governments , where they see real transition taking place and real support from the private and public sector together in terms of that transition . We have seen a total reversal on the UIC Program , but what do we hear from this Government? I mean, it was obvious to a Grade 10 student that changing UIC would mean that the re would be a greater impact on the welfare system of Manitoba .

You do not have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out. You cut back on the benefits at the front end, you cut back benefits at the back end, where do people go? They go onto the welfare system and what we get is a timid too weak response from this Government in terms of fighting for people who are being cut off their insurance program and being put on a welfare program . I think that is disgusting in terms of us standing up for those people who are most greatly traumatized by the rationalizations and the cutbacks in the Free Trade Agreement. Mr.

Acting Speaker, we have seen a total reversal on the child care position . We need a federal-provincial child care program in this country. We were told that free trade would not affect it. We were told that nothing after the election would affect the child care program in Manitoba and , sure enough, we have again a total federal flipflop on the child care program and a total withdrawal in terms of the support that was talked about. *

(1450) More importantly, we are seeing a program of health care and post -secondary education being slowly and surely cut back 1 percent a year - the death by a 1,000 cuts. In 1981, it started under the Trudeau Government , and I say this because all the statistics are there, even in Wilson 's Budget and Trudeau 's old Budgets. In 1981, it started and we said at that point that the Medicare would be dead by the year 2000 . We were accused of being fedbashers - 49 percent in'82, 48 percent in'83 , 46 percent in'84. When the Trudeau Government left office , it was down to 44 percent.

The last four years it has wound down to 43 percent, 42 percent. It is now at 38 percent. ·11 you look at the numbers we tabled in the public of Manitoba in terms of health, we will lose $142 million in EPF. We will lose $101 million on health . It will be in its greatest impact in the fifth year. We will be down to 30 percent funding from the federal Government for our health care programs . We will have the death of Medicare through the Liberal and Conservative Governme nts. They will not kill it in a fair way up fron t so we can have the battle in support of the Canadian peopl e.

We are seeing a slow and deliberate death of Medicare . I can assure you, as New Democrats who

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. fought the Li berals and Cons ervatives to es tablish Medicare in this countr y, we will fight these insid ious cuts every year, every percent in terms of maintaining a universal health care system in this count ry. We have the post-secondary educ ation issue. We have al ready docu mented the fact that our universities are being cut again by some $41 mil lion in the next five years. Native educa tion, I belie ve that is a major , major change in terms of the pol icy and Treaties of Native peop le.

Visiting com muniti es and visit ing young people in many of the remote commun ities, we were remind ed -the group that visit ed these com muni ties were reminded -tha t as long as the sun shi nes, the river fl ows, and the gr ass will gr ow, that the Treaties will be invio la te between our Canada's first people who gave us so much of their land and so much of the opportun ity when we first se ttled in this countr y, that they wou ld have an exchange as part of their Treaty rights, the rights of education.

This is not an issue of capping of education gr ants or the squa re of the hypotenuse of a funding gr ant mu ltiplied by some other obtuse formu la. This is a fund amental right of Treaty. I belie ve that treaties and agreements between people, whether they ar e abori ginal people or other countries, are inviola te and no one should break those treatie s. We are bringing in a res olution to this Ho use to call on an all-P arty ag reement. We are hoping we can get leave to put that on No. 1 on the priority for reso luti ons.

We hope we can get all- Party sup port to mo ve that up as we all did before with the de af lang uage proposal made by the Liberals, and it was a good propo sal. I think we should mo ve this propo sal up and we should have an all-P arty supp ort for this res olution - take the vote. We belie ve we should have the same kind of strong message with an all-P arty message to our federal Go vernment on returning Native education fundin g. It is absol utely im perative with 90 percent unemplo yment rates that we do not take the major way of get ting ahead in this world in terms of educ ation and educ ation funding.

I applaud our Mem ber for Rupertsland (Mr. Harper) on that res olution. I ask all Mem bers of this House to join us in mo ving that reso lution forward and taking a str ong, united message to Ottawa. I want to talk about the major themes of the Speech from the Throne, but I belie ve we have to keep things in context of the major environ mental issues we are deal ing with. I bel ieve the major themes of this Speech from the Throne are the environment, finances of the province, the services that al leged ly will be maintained, the rural is sues and the fede ral-pr ovincial relations.

I think those are the five theme s in the Speech from the Throne, and I want to speak to each one of those themes in a mor e general and thematic way rather than jus t scatterg un my approach on the Speech from the Throne. The Go vernment has come out, quite right ly, on a sus tainable de vel op ment stra tegy and sust ainabl e dev elopment initiatives in this provi nce. I want to be honest with the Governme nt and the Mem bers of the Liberal Opposition and ou rselves. I think we should be 64 a bit honest about this.

I quite frankly think if we walked out of this Leg isla ture and asked 25 Manitobans what is susta inable devel opment, they wou ld not know. Maybe the term is a li ttle too gimmic ky. We have put it in our reports and other bod ies who I respect Brundtland Commission, happens to be an ally group of our polit ical Party. We were involved with Mr. Lecuyer in signing the origina l document, as the former Minister of the Environment, to get busi ness and Governme nts together to sign the concept of a rou nd table . I am not so sure the public know what we are talking about in terms of sustai nable dev elopment.

Pe rhaps we have to al ways use the term - (I nterjection)- no, I think we should be honest about tha t. I jus t say I think we should tie the term "environment" toge ther with "sustainable de vel opment" so the people know what we are tal king about, because I think we all agree with the goals of sustainable devel opment. Our challenge, Mr. Acting Speaker, is to ensur e that it is not susta inable rhetoric in terms of environmental issues, and it really is sus tainable environmental dev elopment. I think we are going to start using the term "environment" so people know what we are talking about.

We think it is positiv e that the Government has changed this minis try in terms of the environ ment. We think they made a classic mistake la st year, and we said so, by com bining the two departments together . I think the Prem ier (Mr. Filmon) has adm itted that mi stake by sepa rating them. The old alle ged truism about the fact that the Department of Environment "r uns itsel f," I do not belie ve is val id. I think the Go vernment fou nd it ran itself right into the gr ound la st Sessi on. Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health): Now, now, now. Mr. Doer: The Mem ber for Pem bina (Mr.

Orcha rd) alw ays suppor ted the former Minister of Environment (Mr. Conner

y) in his position, that the hole in the ozone layer was not big enough. I think mo st Manitobans do no t sh are that approach. I do not belie ve tha t sustai nable envir on mental de vel opment is a parti san is sue. I belie ve that environment is an issue for all of us in this Cham ber. All of our sup porters belie ve in the priority of the environment over eco nomic dev elopment. That is an im portant change in the thinking of the public and the thinking that we ha ve to take to all of our decisions in Go vernment.

Yes, the economic realit ies are very im portant, but we must consider the environment as als o very im portant in our deli berations and make it the No. 1 priorit y, because the lon g-term health of our citizens and our earth is more important than any short term econ omic benefit we may have. Mr. Acting Speaker, I think the legisla tion-w e will have to wait to see it- deal ing with poll uters is positiv e. I think the legisla tion deal ing with CFCs, as pro posed in the Speech from the Throne, is legis lation we can supp ort, but we certainly want to see the details of that.

We have certainly dr afted a Bill and would be willin g to consult with all Parties on the type of leg is lation

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. we think would be a benefit to Manitobans. Proclai ming the Hazardous Goods Bill, The End anger ed Species Act, other proposals that we had in the file, I think, are very positive. As the Mem ber for Flin Flon (Mr. Storie) sa id, when you run out of material in our files, you are going to be in real trouble. I do not want to steal his line s. I do not want to be Joe Bide n in terms of that-was-a-Jerry-Storie li ne. I think it was the Member for Flin Flon's line and I think it was very appropria te.

On the negative pla ce, I think separa tion of the Wo rkpla ce Safety and Health Division with the Environment Department is a major mis take. I belie ve that cance r-causing materials in the workpla ce are cancer-c ausing materials that go into the environment. I cannot unde rstand the Go vernment in its wisdo m, lo ok ing at a comprehen siv e appr oach to the environment, taking part of the work pla ce environment and separat ing it from the broader environ mental issues.

I belie ve that they went from one extreme of having everyt hing com bined to one department to another extreme in jus t managing the environment through the Deputy Prem ier. I bel ieve and we bel ieve stron gly that the wo rkpla ce environment and cancer causing materials in the wo rkpla ce are obviously cancer causing materials in the environment. Therefore, do not ha ve them separa ted , do not have them paro chia li zed .

Have them together in a coord inated strategy , again which we bel ieve is consis tent with sustai nable dev elopment. * (15 00) We also belie ve that the Manfor ag reement will put the test to this Gov ernment on the environment. Yes, the old way of doing things in all Go vernments, federal Li beral Go ver nme nts, NOP Go vernments and Cons ervative Governments, was to sit pat and, only when there was a change, to go to a full environmental im pact study . The new way of doing things, Mr.

Acting Speaker, is sa ying any change, even if it is a change in ownersh ip, even if it is a change in the conditions of the ownership, if it is a change in one of the conditions of the sale or whatever else, that we do not own the plant, you do not own the plant. The public owns the forests, the public owns the stream s, the public owns the water, the public owns the Native rights, the people own the environment. The new way of doing things is havi ng the absolute and fundam ental right of an environmental impa ct st udy with environ mental input from the publi c. Mr.

Acting Speaker, I do not even want to talk about Rafferty, the Mem ber for Rhineland (Mr. Penner), but I think we have two fund amental options. We can do things the old way. You could talk about what we did and what Trude au did and what the Con servat ives did, and what City Hall is doing, and what Saska tchewan is doing. We can do it the old way or we can do it the new way. I wou ld urge this Government, without any partisan comment at all, do it the new way. Do it the way of having public participa tion. The public owns the forest , the publi c owns the Treaty rights, the public owns the stre ams.

Let us start toda y with this major change in capital invest ment. Let us start off on the right foot. 65 Let us start off in a positiv e way. I do not belie ve we have anything to fear but I belie ve the public has righ ts. That is the new way to go with the new Environ ment Act. That is the new philosophy of environment. I think we should go with the new way, Mr. Acting Speaker, and I wou ld stron gly urge the Government to do so. In terms of the City of Winnipeg Act, the same argu ments can be made. We had to fight the "Gang of 19 ." Harol d, I gu ess you remem ber that, the "Gang of 19" at City Hall.

We had to fight the "Gang of 19," the Li beral- Tory coal ition at Cit y Hall. They were opposed to us changing The Environment Act and , quite frankly, we were too timid for years not to change The Environment Act, to take away the exempti on from the City of Winnipeg. We stand before all Man itobans in sayi ng we should have done that years ago. We should not have backed down from the City of Winnipeg in terms of The Environment Act.

That is why when we took the new Envir on ment Act, 19 87, when we brought in the new Environ ment Act, we did not have the ability to exempt a mun icipali ty from the provisions of The Environ ment Act. We bel ieved in a new way of de aling with the environ ment under the new Environment Act. Yes, the city needed some time, no question about that. Yes, they cannot doubl e-pipe the City of Winnipeg water system or sewage system in one year but, Mr.

Acting Speaker, when we proclaimed the Act on March 31, 19 88, we did not expect to be another 15 months before we heard from the Go vernment on what they are going to do with the City of Winnipeg and The Environ ment Act, and the enforcement of The Environment Act. We want The Environment Act in with the City of Winnipeg. We will be press ing with every1 hing we have, Mr. Premier (Mr .

Filmon) and Mem bers of the Go ver nment, to have full enforcement of the Environment Act, full compl icity with the Environ ment Act and the full rights of the public in terms of public participation, the public partici pation of the granting of lic ences, the denial of lic ences, the timing of lic ences, the timing of changes, the timing of the new chang es to be made in the City of Winnipeg. We cannot have a situation where we are breaking the la w and , in my opinion, we are breaking The Envir onment Act.

We canno t have ad min istrative deals between this Government and the City of Winnipeg Liberal-Tory coal ition . We mus t go open , pro claim the Act and have a bold new world of environmental polic y. Mr. Acting Speaker, I want to-a gain keeping on the environ ment -(Interjection)- a number of Liberals are not in it. You better check your Liberals, Madam Leader of the Opposition (Mrs. Carstairs). Yes, the Liberal -Tory coal ition is aliv e and wel l at City Hall. Mr.

Acting Speak er, Ra fferty-A lameda is a very serious issue and I am plea sed the Go vernment, after the cour t de cision, has decide d to ask for a full .federal environ mental impact study . There is no quest ion tha t we relied on Joe Clark's advice and Mr. McMill an' s advic e on April 19 to gi ve us a full environmental impact study in this province. There is no question on June

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. 17 , 19 88, we, the people of Manitoba, received probably the gr eatest conspi racy of environmental shaf ting, I bel ieve, in terms of the people of Manitoba, in terms of our needs for a federal environ mental im pact study . Let us learn from that lesson that all of us stand up for Manitoba in environ mental concerns, that again the new way of doing things with the environment is to have public parti cipation. The publi c have rights. It is the public's water, it is the public's stre ams, it is the public's water qualit y, it is the public volume. Governments come and go.

Opposition Mem bers come and go. Mem bers in this Cham ber come and go. When we are changing some thing affecting the people of Manitoba for a hundr ed years, it is not our rights, it is not our adminis trative deals, it is the public's right and the public's adminis trative deals. Mr. Acting Speaker, we are very concerned as wel l about Shoal Lake and the water qual ity on Shoal Lake. We are absolutely appalle d at the Environment Minis ter, the Environ ment Liberal Minis ter, Mr. Brad le y, in Ontario, who preaches one way to the people of De troit, Michigan.

He says to the people of Detroit, Michigan: "We, the people of Wind sor, Ontario, demand an environmental im pact study in Canada and in Windsor to deal with the incinerator in the Windsor com mun ity. " Then he turns around and when it is a Canadian city of 600,000 people, the second best water supply in the province or in the count ry, if not in North America, he will not giv e us an environ mental im pact study . No w, Mr.

Acting Speaker, we have rais ed this issue in the Ontario Legisla tur e on four occas ions with Pr emier Pe terson , with the Environment Mi nis ter Bradle y, with other Mem bers of the Ontario Leg islatu re. Our Mem bers are raising this on a we ekly basis and our counterpart in Ontario will be bringing in a drinking Bill for the Province of Saskatchew an, demand ing there be an environ mental stu dy on a drinking Bill in the Province of Ontario. That will not giv e us dir ectly what we want, Mr. Acting Speaker, but indir ectly -(Interjection)- not your drinking Bill, water drinkin g Bill.

We will get to your Visas in the Liquor Commission later. With the drinking Bill in Ontario, we bel ieve that the bands that are on that lake that take their water from the Shoal Lake and Lake of the Woods system , we bel ieve the bands on that lake, if the Liberals will pass the NOP Private Mem bers' Bill-a nd I ask you to get them to pass it because they have stone wall ed it for two years.

I wo uld ask that they pass that Bill becaus e it will gu arantee us an environ mental impa ct study for the quality of dr inking water in the bands on the Shoal Lake area and , therefore, it will guar antee Manitoba some rights in this area because obviously water quality for drinking is consis tent between the two pro vinces. Mr. Acting Speaker, we bel ieve that this Government must be much more vigorous on Shoal Lake. We bel ieve you should be bringing the fed eral Government into this . Do not wait like we did with the Rafferty-A lameda dam. Do not wait for an NOP press release.

Stand up the first da y you have an opportunit y. We belie ve you should have an environmental impa ct st udy consistent with the new environment laws toda y to deal with public 66 participation and public rights. We belie ve that you should immedia tely enforce The City of Winnipeg Act. Those are our positiv e recom mendations to you as the Government to have any credibili ty with you r words in the Speech from the Throne. Those are the minimum requirements we believe this Government should pursue on an immedia te fast track way with the Province of Manitoba. Deal ing with the finances of the provinc e, Mr.

Acting Speaker, I know that the Government is taking some ple asure in all our tough work and activity in terms of red ucing the deficit. We belie ve over tim e the public will real ize that we did all the pain and they are tryi ng to get all the gain. We are not bitter about that; we are not bitter jus t one bit. But we wou ld note that spend ing is higher in many areas with this Government, including the Prem ier's Office, even the Third Quarter Report sho ws it overbud get.

We will watch and see what happens with the Fourth Quarter Report. * (15 10 ) We believe the funda mental issue facing our province and finances is tax fairne ss on the one hand and the whole area of economic gr owth on the other hand. In terms of the finances of this province, both the Liberals and Cons ervatives campaig ned a year ago on tax breaks to corpora tions. There is no question about that. They both campaigned on getting rid of the payroll tax on companies, $200 mil li on.

In fact nine companies that had offices outside of Winnipeg and in fact in eastern Canada wou ld get almo st half of the tax breaks in terms of the $200 mill ion in that provision. Mr. Acting Speaker, we said then and we will say it agai n, yes, raise the threshold to help small busi ness. We did it three or four times ou rselves. Continue to rais e the threshol d, but we say very si ncerely that there is no que stion that that tax for la rge corpora tions and la rge enterpris es do es not create any jo bs. In fact , we have a situation where in Winnipeg toda y the job situation is half a percent off of St.

John's, Newfou ndland . The Mem bers of the Treasury Bench should hang their heads in shame for a situation where we have gone from one of the best emplo yment creation provinces and the best job creation provinces for you ng people and other people in our province. We are slipping slo wly the way of Sterling Lyon, Mr. Acting Speaker. We are going to a situation where we are one of the worst provi nces. It is a sha meful situation when we have a situation where we are moving toward St. John's Newfou ndland, in terms of the econ omic situation of this province. Mr.

Acting Speaker, we bel ieve the people of this province will see when they compare over time the job crea tion record of the Cons ervatives, which is the same as the philo sophy , the trick le-down philo sophy of the Li beral Oppo sit ion, the y will see it is the same philosoph y. They will come to a Party over time that really did perform job crea tion, did not talk about it in this House but real ly did perform in terms of job crea tion, in terms of the Province of Mani toba. They will go for performance, not the rhetoric of the old-line

Part ies.

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. Mr. Acting Speaker, the same prom is es were made between the Tories and the Liberals in terms of their pri orities for corpora tions. They go to the same Cham ber of Comm erce breakfasts; they attend the same mee tings in terms of who their constitu ency is -(Interjection)- they deny that now. We have seen a very serious situa tion. I ask the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) to take note. Last year in this Cham ber, he said to us and I quo te, and I remember him sa ying it: "M ichael Wilson is one of the mo st ho nest individuals in Canada. Mic hael Wils on, his word is im pecca ble.

I trust him with our lif e." He said these things. He said that in this Chamber- check Hansard . When Michael Wilson says there is going to be no increase in revenue based on a sales tax change, Michael Wilson will not mis lead us. I do not even want to go into the five or six things he has misled us on si nce No vember to tod ay, Mr. Acting Speaker, but I do want to go on to the is sue of a national sales tax. It is not a revenue-neutral sales tax. Don Blenkarn was correct . Don Blenkarn, the chai rperson of the comm ittee, said it will prod uce a $9 bill ion revenue increase - An Honourable Memb er: 14 billion.

Mr. Doer: -n et increase, 9 billi on over the 5 billi on that is here now. A $9 billi on increase over what is there now on the old manuf acturing tax and the old sales tax is not revenue-neutral . I bel ieve that if our Minis ter of Finance (Mr. Ma nness) is going to keep his word to the people of Manitoba la st fal l, he mus t mount a vigorous campaign on the national sales tax and its devasta ting affect on wo rking people and their fam il ies and their com muniti es. It will cost Manitoba famil ies over $ 1, 000 in increased costs they will ha ve to put out.

We belie ve we are at a point of crisis, in terms of our tax system in this coun try, and we need a Minister of Finance and an Op position in Otta wa and Go vernments in Ottawa that will look at the crisis in this cou ntry. If you look at Michael Wilson 's Budg et, Mr. Acting Speaker, and look at the chart that said in 19 61 that 20 percent of the taxes in this cou ntry and revenue came from corpora tions. By the time the Liberals left office, they had taken billions of dol lars off corpora tions.

The Trudeau , Turner, Chretien Liberals had taken bill ions of dolla rs off corpora tions and they are now down to 11 percent at the sw itch. At the switch of the Govern ment in 19 84, they were do wn to 11 percent of corpora tions. Under Michael Wilson 's Budget, we are going do wn to 9 percent in corpora tions and bill ions and bill ions of dolla rs are being made up in terms of fam ily increases in taxes in our middl e class.

They are being made up in increases in taxes for wo rking people and their fam il ies; they are being made up in cutbacks to co mmuniti es; they are being made back in cutbacks to our health and post seco nd ary educa tion. This is the biggest scan dal in this countr y, what the big busi ness com muni ty has been able to get away with, with the Li berals and Cons ervatives, is a tragedy of im mense proportions. I belie ve the people of Canada will rise up someday and vote for a federal Party that will stand up for them and right the tax system in this count ry. 67 Mr.

Acting Speaker, there was one minor White Paper that Micha el Wilson put out to deal with the profits, the bank mar gin profit tax, it was called . Mr. Acting Speaker, that was going to be a tax, not on consumer loan tax, which is part of the deba te going on, on the sales tax and the federal sales tax, but the federal Government had a proposal to tax the amount of mo ney that was between the marg in of what they bor rowed mone y for and what they lent it out for. The federal Government had a White Paper and ide ntified the fact that this wou ld produce $ 1. 4 billi on worth of income for the people of Canada.

Maybe we cou ld have saved UIC, maybe we could have kept the Med icare system at 38 percent ins tead of going down to 30 percent. Maybe we cou ld have kept post-seco nd ary educa tion, saved the $40 mill ion, maybe we cou ld ha ve put that bank mo ney into Native post-seco nd ary educa tion, maybe we could have kept the Port of Churchill open to have our northern visjon and our northern transpor tation sys tem , maybe we cou ld have us ed that for any number of things. The banks whined.

They sa id, "Oh, we are so mad at you for bringing the American Exp ress into Canada now that we are really going to figh t you if you bring this bank profit mar gin tax in," Mr. Acting Spea ker, "we are real ly going to fight you now, you cannot do that," so they dr op ped it in the federal Budget . Two things happened when they drop ped it in the federal Budg et. One is the Li beral Fina nce Critic applauded the federal Tory Government for dr opping that tax and tried to mislead the public and say that it was part of a consumer tax, which it was not.

The second thing that happened -tha t is where the Liberals have always been at-i s the bank profits went up so well that da y that they had record da ys on the stock market. The only group tha t was not crying the day after the Bud get was tabled -the second da y after it was tabl ed , maybe the third da y after it was tabled -t he bank, the stocks -(Interjection)- I know the Tories will side with the banks over Manitobans.

I know the Tory Fina nce Minis ter would rather have a tax on peo ple and a sales tax on our Manitobans than a bank tax, because fo ur out of the six banks had record days on the stock mark et the da y after the Budge t was tabled. When people were going to the Burns plant, when nurses were going to the Health Sciences Centre, when people were going to work in Brandon, when people were going to work in Churchill with a cutback on our trans por tation syste m, they were all cryi ng, but the banks were laug hing, and here we have the provincial Finance Minister (Mr.

Manness), suppor ted by the Liberal Party in terms of the priorit ies of banks, Mr. Acting Speaker. That is the second is sue in the Budge t. We mus t dev elop an economic strategy; we mus t have fair taxation. Now that Ontario has moved to a corpor ate tax system and now that we have reduced the . deficit, we bel ieve that if there are going to be any tax breaks and we believe there should be, we can offset the federal Budget -l et the tax breaks be on people and their fam ilies and com mun ities.

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. Let the tax breaks not be on the mi ning compan ies which was produc ed in the Budge t la st year. Let the tax breaks not be for the rai lways, the CPR and the CNR, which was produc ed by the Minister of Finance la st year, much to the chagrin of John Diefenbaker in his grave. Let the tax breaks not be for the corpor ations in terms of the payroll tax, health and post-se condary tax. Let any tax breaks in the pro vincial Bud get be for people.

Secon dly , we challenge this Government to get out of their planning se minars, get away from the flip charts, get away from all this esoteric rhetoric and create a real economic stra tegy that will create jobs for people in our com munit ies, in our citie s and for our youth and for our people in this provinc e. We challenge you to do that. Mr. Acting Speaker, I want to speak for a moment about the qual ity of services, which I bel ieve was the third theme in the Bud get .

As I have mentioned before, we have heard noth ing from the Cons ervati ves and nothing from the Liberals on the major issue in our health care syste m, and that is the fact that our Med icare sys tem , the system that we fou ght for years ago that makes us a better society than our Ame rican friends, our Medi care syst em, the principle of a universal health care system available to all Canadians, is slipping into term inal illn ess, and it will go from term inal ill ness to dea th. * (15 20) We can see what started in 1981 going into 19 90 where we will have a system where the fed eral Go vernment is only one- third a partner in our health care system that started out 50-50.

I say with all si ncerity, cannot we ris e again above partisan pol itics in terms of our health care system and fight as one voice and one Party in terms of a universal health care sys tem, that is a health care system that we start ed? We have some serious ad min ist rative problems in the Department of Health. We have some positiv e initiatives in the mental health initiatives areas. We have some positiv e starts from the Department of Health. We have some posit ive initia tives in terms of citizen involv ement in the mental health area in our province, and I wou ld like to put that on the record .

We have a lot mo re to do, but we bel ieve there are some positiv e starts in the mental health area. We believ e that the health system though is in a state of admin istrative chaos, not because the Min ister of Health (Mr. Orchard) is no t a com petent Minis ter. He is very com petent in this Cham ber, but the problem is he has a management style that do es not allo w any dele gation of autho rity to al low for decisions to be made in such a way to get our health care system going. I say that with all si ncerity. We have a system that is absolutely trapped in the Minis ter's office.

We have a system where major decisions are taking months after months to be made because the Minister of Health is hold ing those in his system and holding them in his office. We have gone 15 months and the system of health , quite frankly , is in a state of chaos because the system 68 of health do es not know where it is going. So we have a classic case of a Minister who wants total control of the Department of Health.

I do not mind any Minis ter not wanting to know what is going on, but there is a bala nce between knowing what is going on and being able to control the deba te in this House, and hiring the type of people who you bel ieve are necessary to carry out your reforms and carr y out the refo rms necessary for Manitobans. Mr. Acting Speaker, it has taken seven months to esta blish the Health Adv isor y Comm ittee. The Health Advisor y Commi ttee is ill- es tabl ished in our opinion. It has some nice people on it, yes, but it has a number of funda mental weaknesses. It has no representat ion from the North.

It has no repres entation from nurses who are di rectly ser vicing the people of Manitoba. We believe the Health Advisory Commit tee should be made up of peo ple who not only will giv e you adv isory ad vice in the Minis ter 's office but giv e you bedside advice in terms of the health care refo rms that are necessary in this provi nce. The commit tee has taken so long to deal with the issues. It is ove rly occu pied with people who are made up of the two teaching hospitals as op posed to the com mun ity hospitals, lik e Conco rdia or Dauphin, or some of the other com mun ity hospitals.

Because of that, that is why we see a Speech from the Throne which has some good recom mendations from our two teach ing hospitals, but really we have missed the balance in terms of com mun ity-based health like Klinic, com munit y-based health lik e Home Care, com munity based health in our com mun ity hospitals, our communit y-ba sed health in northern Manitoba, our co mmun ity-ba sed health in public hea lth, our communit y-based health initia tives in the Health Action Centre. We are in a state of total chaos, Mr.

Acting Speaker, and I suggest to this Government that they better, on behalf of Manitobans, get a specific st rategy to deal with the true nature of the health chal lenges.

They better put that Health Advis ory Task Force on a fast track and come to some very imm edia te decisions on Klinic, the Health Action Centre, Home Care programs that are being cut back in the North End of Winnipeg, programs such as the No rthern Health Initia tives , nor thern represen tation, nurses, the role of nurses , becaus e this will become and develop to become the grace of this Government in terms of a new Government is end ing. (Mr.

Deputy Speaker, William Chorno pysk i, in the Chair.) Peo ple expect action in terms of their health care system and New Democrats will fig ht for action in terms of the health care of this province.- (Interjection)- Action is not a user fee in the health care syste m. Action is not to charge for meals in hospital s, le t me assu re you of that. Mr. Acting Speaker, that is a serious issue; that is not a partisan shot. We belie ve a health care system should be access ible to all people, notwithstan ding wealth.

We do not belie ve the people of this province should pay for their mea ls, pay for their sli ppers, pay for their dr ess ing gowns and have a qual ity health care on the basis of wea lth. That is the Liberal pol icy and we total ly reject it.

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. Mr. Deputy Speaker (William Chornopys ki): Order , pl ease. The Leader of the New Democratic Party has the floor . Mr. Doer: It is fund amental to our being, Mr. Deputy Speak er. We fou ght for Me d icare. We es tabli shed Medic are and we will fight for universal Med icar e every step of the way with every Mem ber in this Cham ber, believe me. Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is not funny to charge for meals in hospitals. The education system is also an issue of principle that we wou ld li ke to deal with in the Speech from the Throne.

We have to deal with the fundamental principl es fir st of all in our educ ation system before we go into scatte ring advice in terms of the education program in this provi nce. We bel ieve that one of the most fund amental issues that we are going to have to deal with in this Cham ber, and I say this again in all si ncerity to all Parties in this Cham ber, is the whole issue of the public and private school system in this province. The Mem ber for St. Jame s (Mr. Edwards) asks me how many times I want to deal with it.

We bel ieve that a prom is e to fund the public and private school system in this provi nce to 80 percent will produce again a two tier educ ation system. We belie ve it will produce a system for people who have the means to opt out of a public school education system which again has served this province wel l. Yes, we have funded the private school system to the tune of 30 percent. But we always belie ved that the enrol ment in the public school system and the private school system should be very cl osely mon itored . We bel ieve in being fair to all students and all parents.

But beyo nd that fairness, we belie ve in the fund amental paramou ntcy of the public school system in this province. We will be fighting to main tain a strong public sch ool system. You canno t have it both ways. You cannot co ntinue to put millions and mil lions of dol lars into a private school system over the la st 15 months and prom ise to giv e 80 percent to private schools. Our priority for educa tion is the public school sys tem, not St. John's Ravensc our t in terms of the Provinc e of Manitoba, and that I pledge to the people of Manitoba. (Mr. Speaker in the Chair.) Mr.

Speaker, on speak ing on the education program , I would urge the Go vernment to get on with the ill iteracy prog ram. I wou ld also urge the Government to get on with the Native educ ation program in The Pas. I wou ld stro ngly urge the Minister of Ed ucation (Mr. Derkach), and the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and the Minis ter of Northern Affairs (Mr. Downey) to take heed of the reco mm endation from our Mem ber for The Pas (Mr. Harapiak) on this issue.

It is a gr eat idea for northern economic de vel opment, it is a gr eat idea for abor igina l dev elop ment, it is a gr eat idea to have that nursing program in The Pas and we will supp ort the Government to imm edia tely prod uce that program . It will be very positive. The Government will get lots of plaudit s and I think that will be very posit ive. In terms of child care, again let us go to the principle of the issue. The principle of a child care system is again to our way of thinking, a universal , non- profit, 69 fully accessible child care program .

We applaud the co mmun ity rep rese nta tives who made up tha t comm ittee. We do not applaud the fact that this Go vernment has withheld this report for some two and a half months. Last year, we thought the Govern ment wou ld have a stra tegy on child care as they announc ed funding to the private system and funding to the public sys tem, but much more fundin g to the private school sys tem. After a year they have the task force report . Is there any strategy , is there any dir ec tion, is there any philo sophy , are there any principl es, do es the Go vernment know where it is going?

No, to all tho se ques tions. Is it going to stand up agains t the federal Go vernment? No, Mr. Speaker, and again we bel ieve in a public access ible child care sys tem. We do not belie ve in a profit system lik e the Li berals and Con servat ives. We will again fight for non-pr ofi t, a fully acce ssible child care syste m. We know which side we are on. We do not have to mo ve back and forth ' in terms of that issue. We know who we stand up for. Workpla ce, Safety and Health is also a major issue in this province.

We are absolut ely flab bergasted with the position of the Government with the Wo rkers Compensation to go against the orig inal King Report on Wo rkers Com pensa tion. We bel ieve you are going in the wrong dir ection. We know of case after case where a worker has been told, do not file for workers com pensa tion, do not file for injury.

You are going to affect our rates and, therefore, our levy in terms of the next year. * (15 30) Agai n, we were absol utely flab berg asted when the Liberals sup ported the Cons ervatives and suppor ted the Cham ber of Com merce ag ains t the ori ginal Manitoba recommenda tion in terms of the King Report. We can go on and on and on in terms of Workplace, Safety and Health, but the conclusion of our caucus is there is no difference between the Liberals and Tories on Workpla ce, Safety and Health on any major issue of subs tance in terms of the Province of Manitoba.

We wou ld ask that the Go vernment cont inue to dele gate in Family Services through co mmunit y services to the volunt eers and parents. We es tablishe d a de central ized program for the people of Manitoba with the Fam ily Services, with volu nteers. We have rai sed it time and time aga in, the centraliza tion of Child and Family Services in the City of Winnipeg . We bel ieve that wou ld do a gr ave injustice to the volu nteers and staff . in the com munit y- based activities, Mr. Speaker, and we will again fight for a commun ity-based Fam ily Services Depar tment.

We will watch the Minister and the minis try and the Government very carefully in those areas. In terms of urban issues, we do not know whether the Government is going to come back with a full reform of urban issues. We know they are tinkering with a few of the more posit ive re com mendations th at we produc ed in terms of urban affairs. We do not know whether it is going to do some thing with the travesty that allo ws the EPC, the Executiv e Polic y Commit tee,

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. to be made up of a gang of back-room people from, ag ain, the two trad itional Parties that allo ws for the situa tion to de velop where the pie is cut up in a back ro om, the decisions are made in the back ro om, all the perks are giv en to the Liberals and Cons ervatives across the city in the back ro oms of the city. Real urban reform will mean that we de velop

an Act, as we propo sed in our White Paper, to get rid of the Gang of 19 and the insidious backroom deal ing that has gone on at City Hall. We will see if there is real civic refo rm with the Bill that this Go vernment brings forwa rd. In terms of the mu lticultu ral communit y, we have proposed legisla tion, our critic has proposed legisla tion, and we will work in a posit ive way on a true mul ticultu ral Bill that will have true enforcement and true targets and true dev elopment.

We will work in a very positiv e way with our com mun ity and with this Government and all Mem bers of this Leg isla ture, hopefully in an all-P arty mu lticultur al polic y, to deal with the leg itima te asp irations of our mu lticultur al com munit y. I think the accr editation program , or the activity, the efforts, the commitment in the Speech from the Throne to try to equalize some of those profes sional stan dards is a very good idea. The Government had it introduc ed and I applaud them for it. You will have our supp ort on that. Full speed ahead on that proposal and you have our suppor t on that.

In terms of the Justice Comm ittee, I have said before that the Justice Minis ter (Mr. Mccrae) should giv e our Consumer Affairs critic (Mr. Malo way) half his salar y, and I belie ve that the Mem ber has come up with a lot of positive sugg es tions in terms of consumer legisla tion. Again, he is one step ahead of the Go vernment with the "l emon-ai d" leg isla tion, but I am hoping that Brick 's Furniture- let us deal with la st year 's consumer issues. Liberals and Cons ervatives, let us deal with last year 's legi tima te concerns of Brick 's Furnitur e and then let us mo ve on to this ye ar's consumer issues.

We wou ld ask all-P arty sup port for our "l emon- aid" Bill that has been prod uced . In terms of violent criminals, Mr. Speaker, there is nothing in the Speech from the Throne, nothing in last yea r's Bud get , to deal with an expedited proc ess in terms of violent off enders. You made a promis e, you have not kept it.

I wou ld ask the Attorne y General, or the Minister of Justic e, in terms of the safety of Manitoba citizens to mo ve forward with that recommendation that is bu ried some where in the bureaucra cy of his depar tment, and New Democrats will sup port an agg ressive approach to deal ing with violent off enders. We are absolut ely appalled , Mr. Speaker, that the Attorne y General wou ld take away the com mun ity based volunt eer program in terms of victims of crime. We belie ve we had the first and fine st Vic tims' Assistance Program in Canada. Do not let that be taken hostage while the Minis ter of Finance (Mr.

Manness) huffs from his seat. You know, you are being captive of the bureaucrats too early. We know the bureaucrats want to get their hands on that mone y. We know the Treasury Board wou ld love to all ocate it to their favourite items, but we bel ieve that the commun ity-based Victims' Assistance Prog ram , work ing with our com mun ity based vo lun teers and our volu nteers from the 70 communit y, allo cating that mo ney on the basis of merit is a far sup erior way to go.

We will vote agains t any change, any way of removi ng that in any way, sha pe or fo rm , in terms of taking away the rights of citizens to be in partnersh ip with victims in our criminal jus tice sys tem. I want to talk on the fourth theme of this Speech, and tha t is rural ec onomic dev elopment. We say "e con omic dev elopment" because we bel ieve the Premier (Mr. Filmon) made a mis take by not putting econ omic devel opment into the rural dev elo pment portf olio. We think it is a posit ive step forw ard , but I belie ve strongly that the Minister respon si ble for Rural Developme nt (Mr.

Penner) mus t also have Busi ness Development and Tourism as part of that ind ividual 's portf olio. I really bel ieve to have Busi ness Development and Tourism with IT& T and all the other portfolios do es not allo w this Minister to get his or her hands on enough rural economic dev elopment levers, and that is why our critic is a critic who deals with the economic realities of rural economic de velopment as wel l as the rural dev elopment idea of proper ty assess ment. Rur al dev elopment need s jobs, economic oppor tunity, Mr. Speaker.

It do es not need property asse ssment and a couple of boards of water services, although I agree tho se are positiv e steps forward . It needs real jobs, real oppor tunities. We are going the wrong way, Mr. Speaker. We are cutting back the dev elopment jobs in Dauphin. We are cutting back the dev elopment positions and tourism mo ney in Thomps on. We are cutting back busi ness gr ants in The Pas . We are cutting back busi ness op portu nities in Flin Flon. We are cutting back jobs in Ashern and the Interlake area. We are cutting back oppor tunitie s obviously in the City of Winnipeg.

We sugge st to the Premier (Mr. Filmon) in a posit ive vein, go one step further, Sir. Put in the rural eco nomic devel opment program with some real teeth and some real levers, with real opportun ity to move things and dev elop op portunitie s in rural Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, we belie ve that value-added jobs plus Go vernment services is the only way to go in rural Manitoba. We know that is easier said than done but we wou ld ask you to look at value-added oppor tunities in our rural commun ities. Look at the kind of propo sals we had for impr ovi ng water and water treatment.

Just adding a water treat ment plant in the co mmun ity of Dauphin would add hundr eds of opportunit ies for job creat ion and job crea tion opportuni ties in the rural economic commun ities. Mr. Speaker, again our rural commun ities, as our critic has outli ned today in his questi on, our federal Go vern ment is de vasta ting western Canada rural ec onomic lif e. Rail line abandonment, agricultur al pol icies, rai l emplo yees, the Port of Churchill, and our northern commun ities are being devastated by federal econ omic polic ies. Mr. Speaker, Po rtage is just part of that.

Churchill is just as imp ortant as Portage. Portage is jus t as im portant as ll ford . llf ord is just as im portant as

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. Pikwito nei. All of these com munities are gett ing massive amou nts of their percentage of economic life taken right out of their bodies. Native education is also an economic de vel opment idea that is being cut back by the federal Go vernment. Flin Flon is another area where we are se eing no action. We had the agreement in our hands as part of the acid rain agre ement. The Prime Minister goes down to Washi ngton and talks in gl owi ng terms about the acid rain pol icies in Canada and why do es the United States not get on board . What do es he do for the com munity of Flin Flon?

Nothing, nothing in terms of that communit y, to upg rade that smelter which needs upgra ding. It is a major environmental problem in terms of the acid rain. Mr. Speaker, the polic ies of this federal Government and pol icies of the last 10 years have been to put jobs into the golden triangle of Ottawa, To ronto and Mo ntreal, and we, no matter what political Party, have got to stand up for the rural way of li fe, the west ern way of li fe.

We have been totally aband oned by pol icies from the federal Go vernment that sup port a strategy of get ting all the seats in Que bec and try to get some seats some where else. That happened before with the Liberals. It is happening again with the Cons ervatives. Western Canada is being deci mated , and we have got to start sta nding up for the Province of Manitoba and the people of this province. Mr. Speaker, ag ricultur e is another area that we are very concerned about in terms of rural economic li fe. Agricu ltur e, we have a strong Minister of Agricultur e (Mr.

Findla y), but why do we have a weak voice deal ing with the federal Go vernment? Why are we being so timid with a com petent, capable, Minister of Agricu ltur e in deal ing with our federal Go vernment? I sugg est, Mr. Speaker, aga in, it is back to an issue of principle. It is an issue of principle because there is one pol icy that sup ports corporate far ming and the dev elop ment of marke te ering in our agricultu ral com mun ities and the abandon ment in some ways of our fam ily farm, and there are other pol icies that suppor t the family farm. We know where we stan d. We sup port the family farm.

Our critic of Agriculture and our former Minis ter of Ag ricultur e, we knew who we stood for. We do not stand for Cargill and the gr ain compan ies and the profitee ring and the exchange market. We stand for the fam ily farmer . We stand for the rural way of li fe. Mr. Speaker, that is why we have no philosophical prob lem when the ma rketeering decision takes pla ce on a unila teral way to take oats off the Wheat Board . Why do we not hear this Government speak up for farmers who are voting in every one of their di stricts to put oats back on the Wheat Board ? Why do we not hear from the friends of farmers?

I sug gest there are more friends of the grain compan ies and the exchange mar ket when it comes do wn to the crunch. The farmers who are voting constit uency dis tric t after di strict, they are vot ing to return to an orderly ma rketing sys tem. * (1 540) We do not see that voice in terms of this Government and we do not see the voice in terms of offl oading on 71 tripartite programs, and we do not see the voice of our Agriculture Minister (Mr. Findla

y) on transporta tion pol icies. Aga in, after the federal elec tion, farmers are going to pay a lot more for transpo rtation pol icies, again as we pred icted und er free trade. We do not see any voice in terms of the subsidy issue. The federal Government is floating a pol icy on subsid ies. It is floating a polic y, another Ottawa trial balloon to figure out another way to kick farmers where it hurts in rural and wes tern Canada in terms of the quality of li fe in western Canada. Mr.

Speaker, we will cont inue to st and up as a pol itical Party and as a mo vement in terms of the principle of our small farmers, our family farmers. We will speak out agains t the profite ering and free ma rket syst em. We bel ieve in a balance between our mar kets and orderly marke ting. That is why we can stand up on every issue of principle with the fam ily farmers, with the people of rural Mani toba, with our r1,1ral com muniti es. I have spoken before about the aborig inal peoples. I wou ld again urge all- Party ag reement on aboriginal people in terms of the education capping.

I wou ld ur ge all- Party agreement on Churchill. I wou ld urge all-P arty agreement on our railways. I wou ld urge all-P arty ag reement on the bases, and I wou ld urge all-P arty agree ment on the other aspects we have raised . Mr. Speaker, the la st issue I want to rais e is federal provincial rela tions. I have said before, and I know it bothers the Go vernment for me to say so, but I think it is very im portant. When you are de aling with a barracuda, you cannot act like a goldfish. I real ly believe that we mus t act in a very pred ictabl e-pr edic tabil ity is a very im portant qual ity.

You do not go running off all the time in terms of federal -provincial rela tions. We mus t deal in a very predictable, force ful way with the federal Government. We must know when we are going to fight. We mus t know when we are going to cooperate, but we must be prepared to stand up for the people of Manitoba. It is clear in this countr y that the provinc es that deal with the fed eral Go vernment, notwithstanding partisan politics, there are Govern ments that deal with the federal Government very wel l. It has nothing to do with Meech Lake. New Bruns wick is doing much better, quite frank ly , than P.

E.I. or Manitoba with the federal Government. It goes right across partisan li nes. If you look at the bottom num bers, we did much better, notwithst anding the "cousi n" com ment of jus t picking up your phone. We did much better than this Government in terms of the bottom li nes of federal -provincial agre ements. When we went into a fight, we knew where we were going to be at the end of the day. This is high stakes, this is very im portant. When we had one fight on a very major issue, we came back with five or six other agreements in our hand and five or six other agreements that we were negotia ting.

We said positive things about the federal Go vernment on the cooperative areas and we said negat ive things on the non-coo perative areas. I bel ieve also that you cannot jus t say any thing to the federal Go vernment. I say this in all sincerity that

Wednesday, May 24, 1989. you canno t jus t wile away all the time, complain all the time and say anything about the federal Governme nt. It will not do us any good. Manitoba relies on 25 percent of our income. We need a bal anced approach to federal provi ncial rela tions. We need to know where are our priorit ies. We have to telegraph tho se prioritie s very early . We have to know where we are going and how to get those prioritie s. We have to est abli sh lobb y groups in busine ss, labour , commu nities and all caucus es of all polit ical Parties.

The other Party has to know what the consequ ences of fai lur e are going to be. We mus t have a str ong, consistent, pred ictable, bal anced approach to federal-p rovi ncial relations. I beli eve that we are not having that in this province and it is a major , major concern, I believe, to the people of Manit oba. We must get that on track because it is a partner really with the whole area of true economic devel opment in this provinc e. Mr. Speaker, as I said befo re, this is a very major time in our Speech from the Throne.

It is a very major time in Manitoba with the first cou ple of months of a free trade environ ment, a very major time with a free trade Budge t. We have to operate in a way that I believe is in the best interest of fam il ies and wo rkingp eople and their famil ies and their com munities in this province. On alm ost every Issue of subs tance, whether it was la st Decemb er, our tax polic ies or poli cies on econ omic de velopment, we do see unfortuna tely the old-line

Part ies that have the traditional trickle -down theor y from busi ness in terms of the polic ies they take and the positions they take. We belie ve that we are the Party that do es represent workingp eople and their fam il ies. We do belie ve that we beli eve in equal ity, a value system that is close to fam il ies. We belie ve that values of fam il ies of sharing and coopera ting are the values of our mo vement,

whereas the values of corpora

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	34-2-4
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	34th 2nd hansardpdf 4.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	e3412919f7c3fab0b2ee5c4ac2237bde1904b242

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