Ju n e 2 0 , 1 9 8 9 A L B E R T A H A N S A R D 4 1 7 Title: Tuesday, June 20, 1989 8:00 p.m. LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ALBERTA Tuesday, June 20, 1989 [The House resumed at 8 p.m.] [Mr. Deputy Speaker in the Chair] [On motion, the House resolved itself into Committee of Supply]head: COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY [Mr. Schumacher in the Chair] MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. members, before we begin committee work, might we have unanimous consent to revert briefly to the Introduction of Special Guests? HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. MR. CHAIRMAN: So ordered. The hon.

Minister of Public Works, Supply and Services. head: INTRODUCTION OF SPECIAL GUESTS MR. KOWALSKI: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. In the members’ gallery tonight are four distinguished leaders assoicated with the Alberta Weekly Newspapers Association. Hon. members, I’d like to introduce them to you and at the conclusion ask them to rise and receive the welcome of the House. We have Mr. Al Blackmere of the Barrhead Leader, Mr. Duff Jamison of the St. Albert Gazette — Mr. Jamison is also a commmittee member associated with the Alberta Weekly Newspapers Association — Mr.

Dennis Merrill from the central office of the AWNA; and Ms Leslie Howard Stafford, also from the main office of the AWNA. I’d like all members to greet them warmly. head: COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (continued) Main Estimates 19 89-90 Consumer and Corporate Affairs MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, members of the committee, the subjetc m atter of th is evening’ s m eetin g is th e estim ates of th e D ep a r t m e n t of C o nsum er a n d C o rp o rate A ffairs.

T he estim ates a re to b e found co m m en cin g at page 7 7 of th e m ain estim ates b o o k , w ith th e elem en ts of th e estim ates a t p ag e 2 7 of th e elem en ts b o o k . I w o u ld in v ite th e M inister of C o n su m er an d C o rp o rate A ff a i r s to p resent h is estim ates, w ith an y ex p lan ato ry n o tes th at m ay b e required or th at he d eem s n ecessary . M r. M in ister. M R . A N D E R S O N : T hank y o u very m u ch , M r. C h airm an . I’ m pleased th is ev en in g to present to th e co m m ittee th e estim ates of th e D epartm ent of C onsum er a n d C o rp o rate A ffairs.

B efo re m ak in g so m e op en in g co m m en ts ab o u t th e g en eral atm o sp h ere in w h ich w e fin d o u rselv es a n d ab o u t th e estim ates th em selv es, I w o u ld like to ex p ress m y th an k s to th e d epartm ent th at I’ ve in - h erited of la te . W e hav e so m e m em b ers of th e d epartm ent w ith u s th is e v e n in g : th e d ep u ty m in ister, R o b in F o rd , an d th e d irect o r of fin an ce a n d ad m in istratio n , D on W o y to w ich , as w e ll a s B ob D em co e fro m th e S ecu rities C o m m issio n .

A n d I have tw o m em b ers of m y a b le sta ff: T ed H o le, w h o h as co m e to u s fro m th e d ep artm en t of tran sp o rtatio n , a g ain to u s w ith o u t q u estio n , an d D i G en ereu x , w h o has been w ith m e a s m y ad m in istrativ e assistan t sin ce I joined E x ecu tiv e C ouncil an d w h o m I w o u ld h av e tro u b le dealin g w ith ... D ealin g w ith o u t. S o m etim es d ealin g w ith to o . I see her lau g h in g . A n d sh e u su ally te lls m e w h ere to g o a n d h o w to get th ere. M r.

C h airm an , I d o th an k th em all fo r th eir support an d fo r h elping to edu cate a n ew m ini s t e r , w h ich is n o m ean task in term s of th e departm ent o fficials w h o are h ere an d th o se w h o are n o t. M r. C h airm an , b efo re g ettin g in to th e sp ecifics of m y e s t i m a t e s , I th in k it’s im p o rtan t that w e put tonight's request in co n tex t. T hat co n tex t is in m y opinion o n e of rapid ch an g e, a w h irlw in d of ch an g e, if you w a n t, that h as tak en place in o u r co m m u n ity over th e past few y ears.

O ur society in g en eral faces rapid ch an g e, as a ll m em b ers of th is A ssem b ly k n o w . B ut th e co n su m er an d co rp o rate affairs area, I b eliev e, fa ce s ev en m o re rapid ch an g es, m o re ev o lu tio n , m ore of th o se u n ex p ected asp e cts of life th at citizen s have to d eal w ith : com puter purc h a s e s ; th e cro ssin g of b o u n d aries, p rovincial an d in tern atio n al, fo r p u rch ases; th e sp eed at w h ich our fin an cial co m m u n ity is m o v in g ; th e ch an g e in in teg ratio n an d expansion of fin an cial serv ices.

T he w h o le area th at d eals w ith th e m ovem ent of g o o d s an d serv ices all com es to so m e extent to rest w ith in our dep artm e n t , so th ere is a w h irlw in d of ch an g e. A s m uch a s w e hav e attem p ted to d eal w ith th at ch an g e to th is point in th e history of our p ro v in ce, there’ s one statem en t b y fu tu rists th at I believe I’ v e m ade to th is H o u se before th at b ears rep eatin g .

A n d th at is th at reg ard less of h o w m uch ch an g e h as tak en p lace, th ere w ill b e m o re ch an g e in th e next 1 0 y ea rs th an there’ s been in th e p revious 9 0 , m o re ch ange in w h at little rem ain s of th is ce n tu ry than all of th e tim e in th e p ast, d esp ite a ll of th o se asp e cts of life an d p articu larly th o se d im en sio n s d ealin g w ith co n su m er an d co rp o rate affairs th at face u s. M r. C h airm an an d m em b ers of th e co m m ittee, w e can lo o k a t th at ch an g e, th at w h irlw in d , if y o u w ill, in tw o w ay s.

W e can , a s so m e do , look at it fro m th e negative persp ectiv e. W e can say w ith respect to th e d estru ctio n of th e four p illars of th e fin an cial co m m u n ity th at th at jeopardizes our citizen s. W e can point to leg itim ate co n fu sio n th at resu lts fro m the m y riad of ch o ices an d th e d ifficu lties in k n o w in g a n d u n d erstan d in g th e ch an g es th at are tak in g p lace. W e know th at it’ s d ifficu lt, so m e m ay say im p o ssib le, fo r th e g o v ernm ent to k eep u p w ith reg u lati n g in d u stry a n d reg u latin g ch an g e a s it ta k es p lace.

T hat’ s th e neg ativ e sid e . If w e w ant to look at the sn o w sto rm or th e h ailsto rm sid e , if w e w an t, of th at w h irlw in d of ch an g e th at w e’ re in , that’ s th e sid e w e’ d lo o k to . B ut I prefer to see it fro m an o th er p ersp ectiv e. I p re fer, fran k ly , to see th at ch an g e as w arm w in d s that w e can en jo y . M r.

C h airm an , I believ e w e ca n , in d eed , point to th e v ariety of ch o ices th a t co n su m ers n o w h av e, th e o p tio n s th at are av ailab le fo r co n su m ers, th e d y n am ic, m o v in g m ark etp lace th at w e h av e th at g iv es u s all o p p o rtu n ities, not only in em p loym ent an d in ch o ices of g o o d s but in o p tio n s of how w e can evolve th e life sty le th at w e hav e a n d th e life-sty le of A lb ertan s g en erally . S o am id st that w h irlw in d of ch ange I see th o se o p p o rtu n ities an d th o se directio n s.

B ut in order to m ake th at tak e p lace, th e g o v ern m en t has a m ajor role to p lay , an d th at is to assist c itizen s

4 1 8 A L B E R T A H A N S A R D Ju n e 20, 1 9 8 9 in ob tain in g th e in fo rm atio n th ey need to m ak e th o se o b jectiv e ch o ices th at are there in th e m ark etp lace a n d to m ak e su re th at th a t in fo rm atio n is a s sim p le as po ssib le an d th at th ere is as little hid d en a s there can b e in th o se c h o ices.

I th in k it’ s th e respons i b i l i t y of th e go v ern m en t to w o rk in p artn ersh ip w ith th e in d u s t r y , w ith th e in d iv id u als, w ith th e v o lu n teers of our com m u n i t y , w h o are th e peo p le w h o k n o w best h o w to fin d ou t w h ere th e pro b lem s a re, to ferret out th e d ifficu lties, to g rasp th e o p p o rtu n ities, an d to deal w ith th e issu es th at are facin g u s in th e atm o sp h ere that w e find o u rselv es in . M r. C h airm an , it’ s w ith in th e context of th o se g en eral statem e n t s that I b rin g tonight’s estim ates.

I believ e th is g o v ern m en t h a s, in fact, tak en step s — on a n ev er-en d in g staircase, ad m i t t e d l y — but tak en m ajor step s in m ost of our a re a s of respons i b i l i t y to ensure that those k in d s of th in g s tak e place a n d th at th at m ark etp lace w e fin d o u rselv es in is a p o sitiv e ex p erien ce rather th an a n eg ativ e o n e.

I w an t to u se o n e area as an area of ex am p le in th at respect — th e fin an cial m ark etp lace, w h ich is so fast m o v in g an d so changi n g — an d just outline for th e co m m ittee so m e step s th at h av e b een tak en in th e past tw o y ears in th at respect. In O cto b er 1 9 8 6 a m in isterial ad v iso ry co m m ittee w as estab lish ed on th e S ecu rities C o m m issio n . In A p ril ’8 7 th e C o m m ittee on F air D ea lin g in C o n su m er S av in g s a n d In v estm en ts, or th e C ash io n co m m ittee, w as estab lish ed .

In July 1 9 8 8 th e S ecu rities C o m m i s s i o n R eo rg an izatio n A ct to o k place, w h ich allo w ed u s to pu t th at org an izatio n in fo cu s in term s of its judicial a n d in v estig at i v e resp o n sib ilities. In O ctober 1 9 8 8 an in fo rm atio n sh arin g ag reem en t w a s signed by th e w estern m in isters resp o n sib le fo r fin an cial in stitu tio n s.

In N ovem ber th e S ecu rities C o m m issio n docu m en t dealin g w ith m u tu al fu n d s b y fin an cial in stitu tio n s an d th e o peration of b ro k erag e o ffices w as used by th e C an ad ian secu rities ad m in istrato rs to d efin e n atio n al p o licies in th at a re a . In Jan u ary 1 9 8 9 A B lueprint fo r F airn ess w as p resen ted .

T hat d o cu m en t, w h ich w as d ev elo p ed b y a co m m ittee ch aired b y P at C ash io n , I b elieve natio n w id e sh o w s u s how to p o sitiv ely m o v e in su ch a w ay a s to assu re in v esto r co n fid en ce an d , m o re im p o rtan tly , to g iv e th e in v esto rs an d in d iv id u als d ealin g w ith th e fin an cial m ark etp lace th o se to o ls w h ich th ey need to m ak e d ecisio n s fo r th em selv es. In M arch ’ 8 9 th ere w ere tw o task fo rces put in place a s a result of th at co m m ittee.

In A p ril — A p ril 2 0 , in fa ct, a couple of d ay s after I assu m ed th is p o rtfo lio — w e sig n ed a n in terg o v ern m en tal sh arin g ag reem en t w ith a ll th e p rovinces in C an ad a, an d th en on th at day as w ell th e S ecu rities C o m m issio n pu t fo rw ard a co n flict-o f-in terest p o licy .

T hen just a few d ay s a g o in th is H o u se w e in tro d u ced th e S ecu rities A m en d m en t Act T h ere are fu rth er step s to b e tak en alo n g th e road to en su rin g th a t w e in fact allo w th e co n su m ers th e m ax im u m am o u n t of in fo rm atio n , th e best in term s of p o licin g that’ s p o ssib le, w h ere that’ s n ecessary , of our m ark etp lace, a n d th e m eth o d s th at th e y can use to m ak e judgm ents w ith respect to th e ch o ices th e y h av e to m ak e. M r.

C h airm an , in th e w h irlw in d of ch an g e it’ s th o se k in d s of d ecisio n s, th o se k in d s of ch o ices, th at need fo r ed u cat i o n , th at really u n d erlin e th e b udget estim ates of th is ev en in g . N o w to g o sp ecifically to so m e of th o se bu d g et estim a tes, w e’ re req u estin g fro m th e co m m ittee th is ev en in g a to ta l of $ 1 9 ,1 2 6 ,0 7 5 , or an 1 8 .3 percent in crease over last year’s bu d g et estim ates.

T hat’ s a sig n ifican t in crease, and I’ m pleased to in d i c a t e to th e co m m ittee that 1 7 .1 percent of th at in crease is sp en t on direct d eliv ery of serv ices to p eo p le a n d o n ly 1 .2 perc e n t o n d ep artm en tal su p p o rt serv ices. I sh o u ld in d icate, pro b - a b ly prior to sev eral m em b ers ask in g th e q u estio n , th at th ere a re lin es in th is p articu lar budget estim ate w h ich sh o w a co u p le of h u n d red or sev eral hu n d red percent in crease.

In v ariab ly th o se th at y o u see are part of a d ecisio n th at w a s m ad e w ith respect to th e F in an cial A d m in istratio n A ct, w h ere w e a re req u ired to g iv e back to so m e of th e o rg an izatio n s w e’ re affiliated w ith so m e of th e fe e s w h ich hav e been collected an d h ad g o n e in to th e p ro v in cial T reasu ry . S o it’ s a net b u d g etin g situ atio n , w h ere th ere is n o actu al dollar in crease, and $ 1 .7 2 m illion of o u r bu d g et in crease is in that area, a net b u d g etin g in crease. M r.

C h airm an , other m ajor area s w h ere w e have h ad inc r e a s e s in th is p articular budget are w ith respect to th e S ecu rities C o m m issio n . T his is th e third year of en h an cem en ts to th at

part i c u l a r co m m issio n to m ak e su re that it can deal w ith our co n t i n u a l l y ch an g in g m ark etp lace. W e are allo catin g an o th er $ 6 5 0 ,0 0 0 in th ese bu d g et estim ates, w h ich w ill allo w for sev en n ew em p lo y ees to m ake su re th ey carry out th e resp o n sib ilities th at th at co m m issio n h as.

W e are sig n ifican tly in creasin g , an d ask th e co m m ittee to consider a sig n ifican t in crease, in th e consum er ed u catio n dim e n s i o n s of th e d ep artm en t, ro u g h ly $ 8 0 0 ,0 0 0 to be sp en t o n try in g to m ak e su re that th e pu b licatio n s are th ere to in fo rm o u r citizen s, to w ork w ith o rg an izatio n s, volunteer an d o th erw ise, w h o w o u ld help to edu cate citizen s, particu larly th o se w h o m ay not h av e had an o p p ortunity to g ain th e education th a t w o u ld allo w th em all of th e o p tio n s in our m arketplace or to k n o w th e d ifficu lties th at m ay b e in v o lv ed th ere.

T his allo catio n w o u ld a lso h elp fu n d th e joint in d u stry /co n su m er task fo rce that’ s b een estab lish ed a s a result of th e C ash io n report an d ch aired by S ally H all, w h ich w ill to g eth er w ith in d u stry try an d fin d w ay s of sim p lify in g in fo rm atio n , puttin g out co n su m er m aterial that’ s req u ired in v ario u s asp ects of th e m ark etp lace. T h ere are so m e o th er d im en sio n s to the consum er ed u catio n a llo c atio n .

T he co n su m er cou n selin g area, w h ich , h o n . m em b e r s w ill kn o w , d eals w ith th o se in d iv id u als in our co m m u n ity w h o have reached th e point of h aving problem s w ith th e ir fin a n ce s, need debt restru ctu rin g or co u n selin g or assistan ce, is a lso in creased to so m e d eg ree. A n d th ere are a series of other area s.

I m ay m en tio n a n d u nd e r l i n e th e fact th at it is not po ssib le to d ay — nor do I b eliev e it’ s b een po ssib le fo r a w h ile — fo r th e g o v ern m en t in a ll of th e area s it’s resp o n sib le fo r to k n o w w h ere all of th e p ro b lem s a re an d d eal w ith all of th e issu es.

F o r th at reaso n , in ad d itio n to o th e rs, w e are try in g to w ork clo sely w ith in d u stry to d ev elo p self-reg u latin g b o d ies an d reg u latio n s w h ich w ill allo w an ind u s t r y to ferret out th e d ifficu lties, to edu cate th eir m em b ers, to d eal w ith th e o p p o rtu n ities in th e best in terests of th at in d u stry b u t, fro m our p ersp ectiv e, in th e best in terests of th e co n su m er. T hat’ s w o rk ed very w ell w ith th e Insurance C ouncil that’ s b een estab lish ed .

W e’ re in th e m idst of d o in g th at w ith th e R eal E st a t e A sso ciatio n , an d so o n I h o p e to an n o u n ce th at co m in g to g e t h e r in th e au to m o tiv e in d u stry an d possibly th e fu n eral area a s w ell. S o allo catio n s in th is year’ s b udget w ill assist u s to m o v e in th o se d irectio n s. M r.

C h airm an , th o se are really th e h ig h lig h ts of th e b u d g et estim ates, an d n o doubt m em b ers w ill hav e q u estio n s in v ario u s area s that I w ill attem p t to an sw er th is ev en in g or w ill co m m it to g ettin g back to an h o n . m em ber w ith an an sw er fo r a p articu lar q u estio n . I w o u ld em p h asize, th o u g h , b efo re clo sin g m y in tro d u c t o r y rem ark s: a g a in , w e are in th at w h irlw in d of ch a n g e.

W e are g o in g to need to face th at fu tu re w ith th e best in fo rm at i o n w e h av e; m o st of a ll, w ith th e b est-in fo rm ed co n su m ers a n d

Ju n e 20, 1 9 8 9 A L B E R T A H A N S A R D 4 1 9 those w h o have th e to o ls to und erstan d an d deal w ith the g reat o p p o rtu n ities, the op tio n s, that are av ailab le to all of u s in th is fascin atin g co m m u n ity that w e h av e. W ith th o se rem ark s, I w o u ld ask th e co m m ittee fo r th eir supp o r t fo r tonight’ s estim ates a n d aw ait w ith in terest th e com m e n t s an d q u estio n s th at m em b ers m ight h av e . M R . C H A IR M A N : T hank y o u , M r. M in ister. T he h o n . M em ber for E d m o n to n -S trath co n a. M R . W R IG H T : T hank y o u , M r.

C h airm an . I h eard w ith intere s t th e m inister’ s o p en in g rem ark s, w h ich w ere th o u g h tfu l an d in som e resp ects n o v el. It is, I su p p o se, tru e th at th ere is a w h irlw in d of c h an g e, a s he say s, an d th at th e ch an g e b etw een n o w an d th e en d of th e cen tu ry w ill b e a s g reat a s or g reater fro m th e point of v iew of daily liv in g , m an y asp ects of it, th an th e ch ange fro m th e b eg in n in g of th e cen tu ry to th e p resent so fa r.

B ut in b ein g fascin ated w ith m odem tech n o lo g y an d prepari n g to m eet th e ch allen g e of very easy co m m u n icatio n , tran sfer of fu n d s in tern atio n ally a n d assets an d in fo rm atio n g en erally an d th e vast pro liferatio n of teleco m m u n icatio n , h e sh o u ld b e a stu te to look also at th e d ifficu lties a n d in d eed m esses th at p resen tly exist in just p lain , o ld -fash io n ed o rg an izatio n of life a s it stan d s n o w , quite apart fro m an y n o v elty that w ill co m e alo n g .

In th at respect I w ill try an d d o m y bit n o w to alert th e m in ister — as he say s, he can’t k now w h ere a ll th e p ro b lem s are — to help h im understand w h ere so m e of th e p ro b lem s are a t p resent in th e area s co v ered b y h is d ep artm en t. In th at, M r. C h airm an , I w ill not d o a lin e-b y -lin e scru tin y of th e estim ates. I’ ll let o th ers d o that. I sh o u ld rem ind m em b ers th at th is is th e sm allest d epartm ent but one in term s of budget.

T h e to tal budget proposed is o n ly so m e $ 1 9 m illio n , a n d w hen o n e say s an 1 8 percent in crease, it so u n d s a lot but in fact it am o u n ts to less th an $ 2 m illio n . C o m p are th at just fo r th e sak e of in terest w ith a 5 .7 percent increase in th e D ep artm en t of F am i l y an d S o cial S erv ices; it co m es to $ 6 9 m illio n . S o w h en o n e h ears that th is is g o in g in to th e d eliv ery of people serv ic es, p ro tectin g co n su m ers fro m th e m isfo rtu n e that can befall th e m even th o u g h th ey are actin g reaso n ab ly , it's m o n ey w ell spent.

F o r th e lack of it w e hav e o n ly to lo o k at so m e of th e testim o n y th at cam e out in th e in q u iry , th e n am e of w h ich w e d are n o t m ention yet — th e C o d e in q u iry is w h at I m ean , th o u g h — to u n derstand that th ese m easures w ere n ecessary . [M r. Jo n so n in th e C h air] N o w , M r. C h airm an , if I can get dow n to cases. I su p p o se th e m ost im p o rtan t gen eral task of th e d epartm ent is to try an d lay d o w n rules th at enjo in fairn ess in co n su m er tra n sa ctio n s.

F o rtu n ately th e rules can b e laid d o w n w ith next to no ex p en se, an d in d eed th e ap p ro ach can be tak en w h ich h as to a large e x ten t b een tak en by th is g o v ern m en t, th at th e en fo rcem en t of it can be of little or no ex p en se to g o v ern m en t becau se th e ru le s b eco m e rules that provide th e basis fo r actio n s at la w ; a t le ast, actio n s o n th e b asis of leg ality o r illeg ality ag ain st peo p le w h o in d u lg e in sharp p ractice in sellin g y o u a lo u sy m otor car, or other consum er tran sactio n s.

S o I repeat w h at I said last year in d ealin g w ith th is m atter, th a t th e d ep artm en t, M r. C h airm an , sh o u ld serio u sly co nsider am p lify in g th e sco p e of th e U nfair T rade P ractices A ct b ecau se at th e present it is really quite lim ited . T o te ll th e m in ister an d rem ind th e m em b ers w hat I m ean by th is, it d eals o n th e fa c e of it w ith tran sactio n s in th e sale or su p p ly of g o o d s an d serv ic es.

B ut th e "g o o d s" ex clu d e m o n ey ; th ey ex clu d e secu rities; th ey ex clu d e ch o ses in ac tio n , a s it’ s called , w h ich m eans b ills of e x ch an g e an d other p aper p ro p erty ; an d so m e other ex cep tio n s w h ich needn’ t b e g o n e in to h ere. S o it tu rn s out that th e stan d a r d s for a used car salesm an en jo in ed b y law are h igher than th e stan d ard s fo r th e salesm an of secu rities, at least un til th e n ew S ecu rities A ct g o es in to p lay . I see no real reason w h y th e a m bit of th e U n fair T rade P ractices A ct cannot be ex ten d ed .

T h en , to o , it’ s in respect of serv ices, an d "serv ices" has a restricted m ean in g . It really is (

A) in re s p e c t o f th e m a in te n a n c e o r re p a ir o f g o o d s o r o f re a l p ro p e rtyu s e db ya nin d iv id u a l a sap riv a ted w e llin go rin c o n ju n c tio nw ithap riv a ted w e llin g ,o r im p ro v em en ts a n d o th er item s of th at n atu re; i.e., p erso n al prope r t y for private use. Y et w h at is enjoined is co nduct w h ich an y o n e w o u ld th in k to be im p ro p er in a n y circu m stan ces w h ere th ere is a cu sto m er/seller relatio n sh ip . F or ex am p le, "u n fair a c ts or p ractices" co n sist of (

a) th e s u b je c tio n o f th e c o n s u m e r to u n d u e p re s s u re b y a s u p p lie r o r (

b) th e e n te rin g in to a c o n s u m e r tra n s a c tio n b y a s u p p lie r w h e n (

i) th e c o n s u m e r’ s a b ility w a s s u c h th a t h e w a s n o t re a s o n a b lya b letou n d e rs ta n dthe... tra n s a c tio n o r(

c) th e e n te rin g in to a c o n s u m e r tra n s a c tio n ... w h e re (

i) th e s u p p lie r k n e w th a t th e re w a s a d e fe c t in th e g o o d s o r (

d) a n y re p re s e n ta tio n o r c o n d u c t th a t h a s th e e ffe c t, o r m ig h t re a s o n a b lyh a v e th eeffect, of d e c e iv in go rm is le a d in g a c o n s u m e r o r p o te n tia l c o n s u m e r a n d , w ith o u t lim itin g th e g e n e ra lity... A n d there’ s a w h o le list of th in g s th at w e w o u ld th in k really q u ite w ro n g to d o ev en if y o u are a law yer dealin g w ith a client o r a d octor d ealin g w ith a patient or an y o n e really su p p ly in g serv ices.

I’ m su re th ere w as a reason fo r b ein g so p u sillan im o u s at first in th e sco p e of th is A ct, but su rely it is tim e to lo o k f u r th er an d sa y : "W e ll, th is stan d ard of conduct ap p lies to o rd in ary p eople sellin g o rd in ary th in g s. W h y sh o u ld it not ap p ly to le ss th an ord in ary p eo p le, peo p le w h o are m uch m ore ’ respectable’ bu t w h o d o w o rse th in g s in th e co u rse of their b u sin ess?" T hey're free of th e am b it of th is A c t, an d I don’t th in k that's rig h t.

N o w , th ere is an o th er asp ect in consum er leg islatio n w h ich I referred to last y ear, to o , an d th a t is th e su b jectio n of th e p u b lic to m y stify in g co n tracts w h ich th e y really don’ t have a n y ch an ce to a lte r. It’ s either tak e it or leav e it. B ut if you’ re in th e fro n t of th e qu eu e an d th ere are people b ehind y o u w aitin g to b u y tick e ts, yo u can’ t read th e back an d say : "W e ll, I don’ t lik e th is at all. W h at ab o u t it?" A n d if y o u d id , you’ d be to ld to tak e it o r leav e it.

S o th o se a re co n tracts w h ich are clearly o n es w h ich th e state sh o u ld sa y so m eth in g ab o u t. N o w , in large area s th ey d o . F ed erally , of co u rse, th ere a re stan d ard b ills of lad in g put in to provincial traffic an d stan d ard tick ets o n aircraft a n d railw ay s an d so o n . P ro v in cially , in su ra n c e co n tracts are reg u lated in th at m anner an d other co n tracts, to o , bu t th ere a re still larg e classes of co n tracts th a t aren’ t.

F or in stan ce, farm ers a ll th e tim e d eal in very ex p en siv e m a ch in ery , co stin g now adays often in ex cess of $ 1 0 0 ,0 0 0 for a large p iece

420 A L B E R T A H A N S A R D June 20, 1 9 8 9 of m ach in ery . Y et th e co n tracts can be v ery u n fairly d raw n , an d th e y w ill h av e no say at a ll. In th e first place, it’ s im p o ssib le fo r a law yer to understand so m e of th e m , let alo n e so m eo n e u n train ed in dealin g w ith leg al d o cu m en ts. In th e seco n d p lace, th e farm er assu m es b ecau se th ere is so m e p ro tectiv e leg islatio n , su ch as the F arm Im plem ent A ct, that therefore he is p rotected an y w a y .

W ell, you can ex clu d e your cu sto m er fro m th e protect i o n of th at A ct if yo u g o ab o u t it in th e right w ay , an d th e farm er really h as n o idea it’ s h ap p en in g , yet th e co u rts h av e upheld th is sort of leg islatio n . I realize th at particular A ct is one th at I su p p o se falls un d er th e responsibility of th e M inister of A g ricu ltu re, b u t it illu strates a point that’ s gen erally ap p licab le. It can be a used car o r a n ew car, it can be a hou seh o ld ap p lian ce.

T hat latter class of cases is m u ch less im portant b ecau se th ey cost m uch less, ex cep t I s u p pose cars don’t co st th at m uch less. I'm just m ak in g th e case fo r a n A ct that d eals w ith th ese o n e-sid ed co n tracts. T h e m in ister last year said that sh e w o u ld look in to it an d rep o rt in d u e co u rse. W ell, there’ s been n o report so fa r. I have m yself tak en th e b u ll b y th e h orns an d put on th e O rder P ap er an U n fair C o n tract T erm s A c t, B ill 2 3 9 .

I ask ed th e m in ister to lo o k at it an d see if th e g o v ern m en t w o u ld lik e to tak e it o v er. T h ey h av e n o p ro p rietary claim to it at all. I think it w ould be a g reat th in g fo r th e peo p le of A lberta to b e p ro tected in th e w ay that o th ers a re in other jurisdictions.

W h ile I’ m ab o u t it, I h av e m yself as th e sp o k esm an for o u r p arty introduced so m e other B ills w hich I su g g est the m in ister m ight lo o k at w ith a v iew to seein g w h eth er a n y or a ll of a n y th em can b e ad o p ted by th e go v ern m en t either as is or in o th er leg islatio n of th eir ow n or by am en d m en t to ex istin g A c ts. T here’ s a short o n e, th e M o to r V eh icle S ales A ct, B ill 2 1 9 , w h ich d eals w ith one point an d o n e p o in t o n ly , a n d th at is th e req u irem en t of sellers of m otor v eh icles to d isp lay th e p rice.

It’ s a very sim p le piece of co n su m er leg islatio n , th e point of it, of co u rse, b ein g that it is p art of a so p h isticated sale s tech n iq u e not to disp lay th e p rice, an d co m m o n ly done w ith n ew v eh icles so th at th e custom er g o es in sim p ly to ask h o w m u ch an d is no t g iv en an im m ed iate reply u su ally b u t is put off w ith q u estio n s. B efo re lo n g a n u n so p h isticated buyer — a n d p erh ap s ev en a so p h isticated o n e, to o , if the salesm an is clever enough — h as m ad e a sa le , p erh ap s not the sort of th in g th e cu sto m er w a n te d .

I ag ree th at w e can’ t protect cu sto m ers in fin ite ly , but su rely th e sim p le th in g of req u irin g th e price to be d isp lay ed so that th e person can m ak e an in itial w in d o w sh o p p in g fo ray is reaso n ab le. A m uch m o re co m p lete B ill, co n su m er le g islatio n , is on th e O rd er P ap er, B ill 2 4 1 . It’ s a n attem p t to d o so m eth in g that th e m in ister m ay think to be a v ery reaso n ab le th in g to d o .

A t th e p resen t tim e — an d I’ m sure th e m inister kn o w s an d m em b ers k n o w — th ere is an A ct called th e C o n d itio n al S ales A ct w h ich assim ilates co n d itio n al sale s to ch attel m o rtg ag es in th is se n se : if a t a certain point th ere is defau lt b y th e purchaser an d th e seller retakes th e th in g , th en th e seller m u st sell th e th in g an d refund to th e p urchaser a n y ex cess th at th e seller o b tain s fo r th e th in g o ver th e am o u n t o w in g to th e p u rch aser.

T he sam e w ith a ch attel m o rtg ag e; it’ s sim ilar in p rin cip le to lan d m o rtg ag es. N o w , certain car v en d o rs, I g u ess — that’ s th e case an y w ay — have found a w ay round this by h ire-purchase co n tracts, actu ally leases w ith o p tio n s. T h e co u rts have ruled th at so lo n g a s th e lease...

H o w it w o rk s, a s I’ m su re w e k n o w : th ere is a lease o f, sa y , a m otor vehicle a t so m uch a m o n th , a n d after 3 6 m o n th s th e lease is fin ish ed , but fo r a sin g le fu rth er paym ent of th e m o n th ly am o u n t or perh ap s tw ice th e m o n th ly am o u n t th e car is y o u rs. It’ s clearly , in effect, th e sale of th e m otor v e h ic le , b ecau se th e lease p rice is ro u g h ly eq u al to th e sale price of th e m otor v eh icle plus in terest. T he purchaser has a m isfo rtu n e a n d after p ay in g fo r, sa y , 30 m o n th s cannot pay m o re.

T he law a s it stan d s at present is co n stru ed a s say in g th at that is not a c o n d i tio n al sale , th e seller can retake th e m otor v eh icle, su e for th e b alan ce of th e lease, in point of fact, an d d o es not h av e to refu n d a n y th in g . I su b m it that’ s u n fair. It’ s clearly a co n d itio n al sale in an o th er g u ise, a n d sectio n 4 9 of th e L aw of P ro p erty A c t, w h ich p ro tects co n d itio n al p u rch ases, sh o u ld be so a m e n d e d . S o th at B ill d o es th a t, a n d p erhaps that’ s so m eth in g else th a t th e m inister should co n sid er.

S till on co n su m er leg islatio n — and sin ce I’ ve go t an o th er B ill th at d eals w ith it, I’ ll m en tio n it, alth o u g h it's perh ap s no t so m eth in g that im m ed iately is w ith in th e jurisdiction of th e m i n ister — is th e very unfair situ atio n th at ex ists in actio n s ag ain st m ed ical p ractitio n ers, in w h ich th e lim itation is o n e year o n ly after th e cessatio n of serv ices. N o w , often th e in ju ry has no t ap p eared w ith in that tim e, or at least if it’s ap p eared , it isn’ t kn o w n to th e v ictim ; esp ecially th e case w ith ch ild ren .

T here is an o th er private m em ber’s B ill — M r. B rassard h as in tro d u ced it — th at d eals w ith it so far as ch ild ren are co n cern ed . B ut th e re is really n o reason — a n d m o st p eople now agree — for th at e s p e cially sh o rt lim itatio n . It sh o u ld b e repealed an d th e lim itatio n fa ll in to th e o rd in ary lim it, w h ich is tw o years, w h ich is sh o rt en o u g h an y w a y .

N o w , perh ap s th at isn’t th e m inister’ s b ailiw ick , a s it w ere, but h e can pass it on to th e m in ister w h o se it is, because it’ s reasonable an d o rd in ary consum er le g isla tio n . O r of co u rse, th e B ill can b e ad o p ted , a s M r. B rassard’ s c a n , alth o u g h I believ e th is B ill m ak es M r. B rassard’ s B ill, w h ich is 2 1 0 , u n n ecessary . W e have in th e p ast ask ed fo r th e right to in fo rm atio n to be a right of citizen s in th is p ro v in ce.

It is at p resent v ery lim ited in its sco p e, our rights in th at respect S o I do ask th e m in ister to h av e an o th er g o at th a t. It’s a p eren n ial plea of o u rs. It’ s ev en go t to th e point w h ere alth o u g h th ere w as a co m m ittee fo rm ed u nder th e m inister of pub lic w o rk s at th e tim e to see w h en g o v ern m en t d o cu m en ts w o u ld be released an d upon w hat te rm s, th at co m m ittee, alth o u g h it had a lot of m eetin g s, w as b o gged d o w n , an d w e can’ t g et th e report of it an d so o n . S o it’ s all very w e ll to talk ab o u t m eetin g the fu tu re.

H o w ab o u t d ealin g w ith th e p ast, th e recen t pa st, in d eed stretch in g in to th e p resent in te rm s of d isclo su re of in fo rm atio n ? C o rrectio n of false creditor i n f o r m atio n , for ex am p le: I still don’ t th in k w e have th e right to d o th a t in th is p ro v in ce. I co u ld be m istak en . B ut it’ s certain ly th e right in o th er p ro v in ces, certain ly in O n tario an d B ritish C o lu m b i a , to m y k n o w led g e. Y et w e don’t hav e the right to d o it h e re .

I’ m not say in g w e can’t d o it, but you are just a t th e m ercy of th e credit rep o rtin g ag e n cy . T here sh o u ld b e rig h ts th e re . G o in g d ow n th e list, th e right of co m p an ies to acq u ire p ro x ies is so m eth in g th at is h ab itu ally m isused in A lb erta. B y th a t I m ean th is. It’ s tim e for th e an n u al g en eral m eetin g to co m e ro u n d , a n d alo n g w ith th e call g o es a n o tice, w h ich a s u r p risin g num ber of sh areh o ld ers just au to m atically fill in a n d sen d b ac k , th in k in g it’ s part of the routine.

W ell, it alm o st h a s b eco m e part of th e ro u tin e. It’ s a p ro x y , w h ich can b e ex ercised b y a n y of th e d irecto rs. S o it sim p ly en su res th at th e d irecto rs of th e co m p an y , w h o are su p p o sed to be under th e co n tro l of th e sh areh o ld ers, are n o t. A lm ost in v ariab ly it w o rk s. O th er j u r i s d ictio n s h av e m oved to en d th e right to n o m in ees, a s it’ s ca lle d , in co m p an y m eetin g s. It is a very sim p le am en d m en t th a t sh o u ld b e m a d e to th e B u sin ess C o rp o ratio n s A ct an d th e C om - -

June 20, 1 9 8 9 A L B E R T A H A N S A R D 4 2 1 p an ies A ct in th is province to b rin g justice in that w a y . N o w , on th e B usiness C o rp o ratio n s A c t, M r. C h airm an — an d I’ m rely in g on y ou, M r. C h airm an , to g iv e m e notice w h en m y tim e is running out. I’ d be very g lad to stop a t a co n v en ien t point b efore it d o es run o u t... M S B A R R E T T : Y o u h av e seven m in u tes. M R . W R IG H T : Y ea h , g o o d . I no tice th e report of th e In stitu te of L aw R esearch a n d R efo rm , discussion paper 5 , is very tim ely in d eed .

W hat I m ean is that th e paper w as pu b lish ed in A u g u st 1 9 8 7 , but it’s tim ely to refer to it now b ecau se of th e S ecu rities A ct b ein g o n th e O rder P ap er. I reco m m en d to th e m in ister an d th o se that are help in g h im the reco m m en d atio n s of that re p o rt, w h ich are su m m arized at page 1 8 8 of th e rep o rt, th at m ay , in fa ct, be in co rp o rated in th e S ecu rities Act.

I haven’ t ex am in ed it fro m th at point of view m y self, but th ey d eal w ith so m eth in g th at w as a real problem acco rd in g to th e ev id en ce th at w as g iv en a t th e C ode in q u iry . I su p p o se w e w ill hav e to w ait for th e r e po rt of the co m m issio n er. O r w e don’ t h av e to ; it m ight b e u s e fu l to look at it w h en it co m es.

T h is report of th e Institute of L a w R esearch an d R efo rm w as d raw n up w ith o u t an y exact kn o w led g e or p robably a n y k now le d g e of th e sh en an ig an s of th at g ro u p of co m p an ies, bu t w h at it d eals w ith is fin an cial tran sactio n s — lo an s, g ran ts of m o n ey , sa le s, tran sfers — betw een affiliated c o m p an ies on th e one h an d an d n o n arm ’ s-len g th d irecto rs an d sh areh o ld ers a n d o fficers of co m p an ies on th e o th er.

T here is a p rohibited class to w h o m th ese tran sfers cannot ta k e p lace, a n d th e co n d itio n s u nder w h ich th e tran sactio n s are to be im p u g n ed are set out an d arg u ed w ith co m m en d ab le ex actitu d e in th is rep o rt. N ex t, on th e B usiness C o rp o ratio n s A ct, I d raw th e atten tio n of th e m inister to a recent p u blication in th e ch artered acco u n ta n t s ' m ag azin e. It refers to tw o co m m issio n s — neither of w h ich I had heard of — an o th er M acdonald co m m issio n an d so m eth in g called th e T read w ay co m m issio n .

T he ex citin g title of it is R eco m m en d atio n s C o n cern in g A u d it C o m m ittees; not at th e to p of th e b estseller list, I don’ t su p p o se, M r. C h airm an , but n o n e th eless con tain in g im portant in fo rm atio n fo r d ealin g w ith th e v ery th in g , ag ain , w h ich w as so im p o rtan t, as it tu rn ed o u t, in th e P rin cip al G roup of C o m p an ies. T he P rin cip al G ro u p of C o m p an ies p rovides a caseb o o k , a v eritab le caseb o o k , of t r a n s actio n s w h ich m u st be scru tin ized .

I rem in d people th at th e p rin cip al acto rs in th at group of co m p an ies w ere v ery respecta b l e peo p le w h o , it see m s, over th e years ap p aren tly slip p ed in to p rev aricatio n , first of a ll, an d later in to tran sactio n s w h ich , at th is d istance a t an y rate, seem ex trem ely suspect.

T he au d itin g of it all w as a case in point becau se th ere y o u co u ld see that th is w as a very b ig acco u n t fo r th e au d ito rs; th ey d are not g reatly offend their em p lo y ers w ith o u t risk of lo sin g th e acco u n t, but on th e other h and th eir pro fessio n al req u irem en ts w ere su ch th at it m ad e it very difficult not to offend th e m . T h e p ro v in cial governm ent can help that p ro cess very m uch b y am p lify in g th e rules ab o u t au d its.

T h e first of th e reco m m en d at i o n s of th e M acdonald co m m issio n is th at leg islativ e am en d m e n t s m en ts occur "th at w o u ld req u ire a ll pub lic co m p an ies to h av e au d it co m m ittees co m posed en tirely of o u tsid e d irecto rs." N o w , w h en you th in k ab o u t th a t, that’ s v ery , very im p o rtan t becau se it w ill th en m ean , in co n ju n ctio n w ith a num ber of o th er r e c o m m en d atio n s a s to rules for au d ito rs, th at th e particular au d ito rs can say to th e co m p an y : "A ll right.

Y ou’ re ask in g m e to put a g o o d , fav o u rab le v iew o n w hat’ s h ere" — an d I ag ree th at it’ s not certain w hat sh o u ld be the correct view because it’ s a judgm e n t m atter as to , say , th e value of secu rities w h ich th e au d ito r b eliev es to b e understated — "b u t there is th is law now th at I m ust state w h at I see to be the p ro b lem s. It’ s a m atter of la w . It’ s not ev en just th e eth ics or etiq u ette or rules of m y ow n a s so ciatio n .

It’ s th e law th at I m ust state m y p ro b lem s fu lly to th ese ou tsid e d irecto rs," an d th ereb y , w e h o p e, protect th e p u b lic th e b etter. T here are a num ber of other m atters th at I w ill, if I h av e tim e later, refer to , but I w ill co n clu d e m y rem arks on th e next p o in t fo r th e tim e b ein g , M r. C h airm an , in sp eak in g of th e F ran ch ises A ct.

T he F ran ch ises A ct that w e have in A lb erta is o n e, I th in k , of o n ly tw o pro v in cially in C an ad a, an d there’ s a n o v erlap p in g jurisdiction w ith th e fran ch ises com petition b u reau in O ttaw a. M R . D E P U T Y C H A IR M A N : E x cu se m e. Y o u r tim e’ s u p . M R . W R IG H T : O h ; I w as ex p ectin g so m e w arn in g , but that’ s fin e . I’ ll co n tin u e, if I m ay . M R . D E P U T Y C H A IR M A N : M em ber for E d m o n to n - M ead o w lark . M R . M IT C H E L L : T hank y o u , M r. C h airm an .

I have a fe w brief co m m en ts an d q u estio n s that I w o u ld like to run th ro u g h q u ick ly . I w o u ld lik e to first of all congratu late th e m inister on h is recent an n o u n cem en t, th e presen tatio n of B ill 6 . I th in k it’ s en lig h ten ed . I th in k it is a step in th e right d irectio n .

W h ile w e are d o in g so m e an aly sis of that B ill an d w e’ ll h av e som e c o m m en ts an d so m e su g g estio n s to m ak e in w ay s that w o u ld i m p ro v e it in th e fu tu re d u rin g d eb ate in th e L eg islatu re on th at B ill, I w o u ld lik e to say th at g en erally I’ m v ery , very im p ressed an d very p leased , in fa c t, th at he h as m oved so qu ick ly to b rin g th at kind of leg islatio n to th e L eg islatu re. I w o u ld ask if possib l e that th e m inister pro v id e us w ith a

schedule of fu rth er r e sp o n ses to th e reco m m en d atio n s of th e C ashion report in d ica tin g to us w h ich reco m m en d atio n s h e w ill be actin g on and w h en an d w h ich he w ill not b e actin g on an d w h y . If I co u ld refer th e m inister sp ecifically to the budget d o c u m e n t, I am stru ck by th e rather ag g ressiv e in crease in su p p lies an d serv ices.

If one pu rsu es that th o u g h t thro u g h sev eral v o te s: v o te 2 , C o n su m er S erv ices, su p p lies an d serv ices in creased 6 3 .8 p ercen t; v o te 3 , C o n su m er S tan d ard s, su p p lies an d serv ices i n crease 3 2 8 .6 p ercen t; a n d v ote 4, R eg u latio n of S ecu rities M ark ets, su p p lies an d serv ices increased 70 p ercen t.

I w o n d er w h eth er th e m inister co u ld exp lain in each case w h at th o se i n creases are for an d w h eth er, in fa ct, th ey are relatin g to an in itiat i v e on th e part of h is dep artm en t to p rivatize certain ac tiv ities, m o re activ ities th an h av e been privatized in th e past. If so , co u ld he pro v id e u s w ith a justification of th at priv atizatio n i n itiativ e? It is m y su sp icio n th at those ex p en d itu res m ay in d icate a n in itiativ e to priv atize m o re activ ities of th e departm ent.

I’ m not say in g th at th at w o u ld n ecessarily be w ro n g , but I w o u ld ap p reciate an ex p lan atio n of w h y . C o n su m er In fo rm atio n D ev elo p m en t has a sig n ifican t i n crease. It seem s to m e th at th ere is so m e logic in su ch an i n crease a n d that it m ay b e q u ite d efen sib le. I w o n d er w h eth er th e m in ister co u ld g iv e u s a n ex p lan atio n of ex actly w h at th at i n crease w ill ach iev e a n d in fact w h at C onsum er In fo rm atio n D e v elo p m en t is ach iev in g . H o w is it th at h is dep artm en t is m easu r i n g it?

Is he co n v in ced th at it is m ore th an sim p ly p ay in g lip serv ice to co n su m er ed u catio n n eed s? Is it ag g ressiv e? Is it

42 2 A L B E R T A H A N S A R D Ju n e 20, 1 9 8 9 m ark etin g its serv ices? It seem s to m e that it m ight b e the k in d of serv ice th at sits th ere un b ek n o w n st to m ost p eo p le, an d theref o r e its effectiv en ess m ay b e a t least, I don't w an t to say q u e s tio n ab le , but certain ly w o rth y of a seco n d lo o k . In surance S tan d ard s. T hat vote 3 .0 .8 in d icates a v ery sig n ific a n t in crease fro m $ 2 2 1 ,0 0 0 last year to $ 1 ,4 4 9 ,0 0 0 th is y ear.

I w o u ld ap p reciate an explan atio n fro m th e m inister a s to w h at is th e reason for such a sig n ifican t in crease. S im ilarly , w ith v o te 3 .0 .2 , R eal E state S tan d ard s, a sig n ifican t in crease: 6 6 percent. S tan d ard s A d m in istratio n a s w e ll: 1 1 6 percen t. If w e could h av e an explanation in each of th o se th ree cases u nder vote 3 : 3 .0 .1 , 3 .0 .2 , an d 3 .0 .8 . W hat w o u ld req u ire th at am o u n t of fu n d in g in crease?

F in ally , I w o u ld lik e to raise a n issu e th at relates to th e F ran ch ises A ct, an d I w o u ld request that th e m inister g iv e u s an ex p lan atio n of an y action that h is departm ent is co n sid erin g or h as tak en or is co n sid erin g tak in g in th e fu tu re in resp o n se to th e tak eo v er of R ed R o o sters b y C C o rp .

T h e co n cern th ere w as th a t sm all b u sin ess people w ere at a trem en d o u s d isad v an tag e in d ealin g w ith th e new ow ner of th at series of fran ch ises, an d in fact m an y of th o se o w n ers su ffered greatly in th e tak eo v er, w ere a t a trem en d o u s d isad v an tag e in th eir ab ility to d eal w ith a v ery p o w erfu l, very larg e co rp o ratio n . I w o u ld request that th e m i n ister in d icate w hether h is dep artm en t is co n sid erin g rem ed ies in leg islatio n to protect sm all bu sin ess peo p le fro m su ch p ro b lem s in th e fu tu re .

T h o se are m y q u estio n s, M r. C h airm an . T hank y o u v ery m u c h . M R . S H R A K E : M r. C h airm an , just a co u p le of q u estio n s fo r th e m in ister. I w as w o n d erin g , in th e earlier attem p ts of h is p red ecesso r, th ey w ere attem p tin g to get sq u ared aw ay on th is au d itin g of sm all o rg an izatio n s. W e’ v e go t a lo t of o rg an izat i o n s of a pretty fair size th at — I th in k th ey h av e to put in an au d ited fin an cial statem en t to th e C o nsum er an d C o rp o rate A f fairs co m p an ies b ran ch . T hese are th e no n p ro fit g ro u p s.

T hen w e ran in to a lot of p ro b lem s on that I und erstan d th e intent of th e m in ister w as to m ak e it e a sie r. Y o u g et your sm all o rg an izatio n , th e little ladies’ au x iliary at th e C ath o lic church or w h atev er, and fo r th em to g o get an au d ited statem en t w as sev eral h u n d red d o llars, w h ich is u su ally eq u al to th e am o u n t of m o n ey in th eir bank acco u n t.

S o , a s I u n d erstan d , th e p redecessor w as g ettin g th at sq u ared a w a y , d o in g aw a y w ith so m e of th at ty p e of a problem w h ere y o u didn’ t h av e to au d it th e sm all org an izatio n an d b asically ban k ru p t th e o rg an izatio n a u d itin g th e little bit of m o n ey th ey h ad . S o I h o p e you w ill co m m en t on that.

T h e other th in g I just had a little co n cern ab o u t is th at w e h ad g o tten in to allo w in g th e junior cap ital po o ls — or w e called th e m n ick el sto ck s, th en later th ey w ere dim e sto ck s — a n d th en s u d d en ly it didn’ t w o rk to o w e ll. W h en th in g s kind of crash ed h ere ab o u t tw o y ears ag o , a lot of th o se sto ck s bit th e d u st. A lot of m o n ey w as lo st on th at. N o w w e are in th e u n fo rtu n ate p o sitio n of try in g to fig u re w h ere to g o fro m h ere. I ho p e w e d o retain th e n ick el sto ck s.

In B .C . th e V an co u v er S to ck E x ch an g e d id h av e a lot of p ro b lem s they’ v e so rted out a n d seem s to be w o rk i n g n o w . It d o es provide cap ital fo r m in in g an d certain th in g s, certain ty p es of risk y o p eratio n s. If people w ant to g am b le o n th a t, th ey put th eir m o n ey u p a n d o ccasio n ally th ey hit th e jackp o t but it did p rovide cap ital.

S o I h o p e y o u w ill co m m en t if y o u h av e fig u red out w ay s of so rtin g out how to k eep th e A l berta S to ck E x ch an g e co o k in g a lo n g , y et protect th e public fro m th em selv es g ettin g ou t a n d lo sin g all th eir m o n ey o n n ick el sto ck , w h ere so m eb o d y b asically rip s it o ff. T h o se are th e tw o q u estio n s I h ad . M R . D E P U T Y C H A IR M A N : E d m o n to n -C en tre. R E V . R O B E R T S : A lread y ? T hank yo u , M r. C h airm an .

I had a few th in g s that I w anted to raise w ith th e m inister th at h ad , in so m e sen se, m o re to do w ith policy d irectio n s an d clarificatio n s rather th an a ctu al v o te . I’ m having so m e difficu lty fin d in g ou t w h at lin e of vote it is, but th ey hav e to do w ith th ree a re a s of co n cern in m y co n stitu en cy . O n e, p erhaps th e m inister could g iv e som e clarificatio n ab o u t th e up d ate of th e review of th e L andlord an d T enant A ct.

C ertain ly in m y co n stitu en cy recent statistics sh o w that at least 9 2 percent of all peo p le in E d m o n to n -C en tre liv e in ren tal a c co m m o d atio n . I m ean , it’ s a stag g erin g fig u re w hen co m p ared to alm o st ev ery o th er co n stitu en cy in the p ro v in ce. S o , in d e ed , th ere is a g reat lot of co ncern ab o u t fairn ess in th at m ark etp lace betw een lan d lo rd s an d ten an ts.

C ertain ly th e L an d lo rd an d T enant A ct is one that I th in k — an d m y co lleag u e fro m C alg ary -M o u n tain V iew a s w ell an d o thers in our cau cu s a re v ery co n cern ed — n eed s to b e updated an d rev iew ed a n d b ro u g h t to b e am o n g th e m ost p ro g ressiv e fo rm s of leg islatio n . I a m p articu larly co n cern ed a s th e previous m in ister had an n o u n ced th e rev iew co m m ittee w h ich , I’ ve h eard , is d o in g so m e w o rk an d so m e h earin g s.

It w o u ld be g o o d , I th in k , to h av e a bit m o re fu n d in g in term s of p resen ters to th at co m m ittee so th at p eo p le w ith v ario u s co n cern s can o rg an ize an d get g ood data a n d g o o d in fo rm atio n fro m all q u arters of th e pro v in ce a n d b rin g it to th is co m m ittee fo r co n sid eratio n , particu larly in th e a rea s, of co u rse , of d am ag e d ep o sits an d how that’ s b ein g held an d in terest o n it an d all the issu es aro u n d that.

E v ictio n is a m ajor co n cern , an d so o n , an d I’ d lik e th e m i n ister to g iv e so m e sen se of h is u n d erstan d in g of th e cu rren t l e g islatio n an d w h at th e d irectio n of th e rev iew is an d h o w it’ s g o in g . C ertain ly , as th e M em ber for C alg ary -M o u n tain V iew raised in his point of p riv ileg e, h e w as very co n cern ed ab o u t th e fact that ev en a lan d lo rd w as ab le to tak e actio n ag ain st h is ten an ts because th ey w en t an d sp o k e to their M L A ab o u t a c e r tain m atter.

I th in k w h eth er it’ s dealt w ith as a point of p riv ileg e or by am en d m en ts to th e L an d lo rd a n d T enant A ct, that k in d of situ atio n o ught not to g o o n in th is p ro v in ce. I’ m eq u ally co n cern ed — a n d I hope to hear m o re fro m g o v ern m en t m em b ers later — ab o u t th e Individual’ s R ig h ts P ro tec- tio n A ct a n d how that can g iv e at least fair hum an rig h ts c o n sid eratio n to , p articu larly , gay an d lesb ian people w h o in th is p ro v in ce can still be ev icted fro m th eir ap artm en ts becau se of th eir sex u al o rien tatio n .

I th in k ag ain that’ s just g ro ssly u n fa ir, th at th ey sh o u ld h av e to suffer th at kind of actio n ag ain st th e m w h ich o th ers of u s h av e protection ag ain st. S o a lot of co n cern s in th at a re a , an d it d o es fall under th is m inister’ s jurisd ictio n . I don’ t k n o w w hat lin e it is, real estate or w h erev er, but th e m inist e r I’ m su re k n o w s. A n o th er issu e has to do w ith th e p h arm acists a n d th e sellin g of p rescrip tio n d ru g s in th e p ro v in ce.

C ertain ly I’ ve raised th is m atter b efo re w ith p rev io u s m in isters, but I’ d lik e to get fro m th is m in ister a sen se of just h o w m uch he’ s m o n ito rin g th e sale of p rescrip tio n d ru g s in the p ro v in ce. W e’ v e had so m e d iscuss i o n th at th ere o ught to be in th e ph arm aceu tical A ct th e provis i o n th at p h arm acists m ust sell th e g en eric equivalent w h ere av a ilab le . A n d certain ly if it’s not g o in g to co m e fro m u s a n d

Ju n e 20, 1 9 8 9 A L B E R T A H A N S A R D 4 2 3 fro m other co n su m ers, it’ s co m in g fro m B lue C ro ss, w h o a re h av in g to p ay exorbitant am o u n ts for p h arm acists w h o co n tin u e not o n ly to sell bran d -n am e p ro d u cts w h en th e g en eric eq u iv al e n t is av ailab le but also , I’ m to ld , h av e a v ery h ig h m ark u p of u p to 2 0 percent in term s of h o w th ey can price th at p rescrip tio n d ru g , a m uch higher m ark u p th an p h arm acists en jo y in o th er p ro v in ces I’ m to ld .

I m ean , w e h ate to h av e co n su m ers g o u g ed a t an y le v el, but particu larly w h en there’ s an area of sick n ess or ill h ealth , w h en so m eo n e h as to g o to get so m e Z antac fo r th eir ulcer or so m e o th er kind of p rescrip tio n d ru g w h ich is alrea d y v ery ex p en siv e an d becau se of their illn ess an d h ealth h av e to in a sen se be g o u g ed in the m ark etp lace. S o I th in k it’ s just ag ain g ro ssly unfair a n d needs to b e am en d ed an d b ro u g h t in to lin e . T h e th ird area I h ad so m e co n cern s ab o u t — ag ain it’ s b een raised b efo re.

I d o n ote h o w in o n e of th e budget b o o k s it ta lk s ab o u t th is m in ister b ein g charged w ith k eep in g track of tren d s in th e m ark etp lace an d brin g in g up to d ate leg islatio n .

H e talk ed ab o u t th e w h irlw in d of ch an g e, bu t w e fo u n d ab o u t a year or so a g o th at o n e of th e th in g s th at A lb erta is still in th e D ark A g e s ab o u t is em b alm in g p ractices by fu n e ral d irecto rs an d th at th is p ro v in ce is still one of th e o n ly o n es w h ich d o es not allo w fo r th e em b alm in g of peo p le w h o h av e d ied of so m e co m m u n icab le d iseases, in clu d in g A ID S ..

I’ m v ery co n cern ed , a n d I th o u g h t w e had h eard fro m th e previous m inister that th ere w as g o in g to b e a n am en d m en t or ch an g e to th a t, th at in fa ct so m eo n e w h o d ied of A ID S or other co m m u n icab le d isease co u ld have th e d ig n ity of a b u rial fro m a fu n eral h o m e th at w a s acco rd ed to an y b o d y else in th is p ro v in ce.

Y et th ey still fa ce so m e d i s crim in atio n ev en in d eath , an d I w o u ld lik e to h av e th at k in d of situ atio n bro u g h t in to a m o re en lig h ten ed an d co m p assio n ate d ay an d have th o se n ecessary am en d m en ts bro u g h t fo rw ard . I th in k it’ s un d er th e em balm ers’ or fu n e ral h o m e licen sin g a re a . I th in k th o se w ere th e th ree p o in ts th at I h ad , M r. C h airm an . A g ain they’ re not n ecessarily budget m atters b u t p o licy m atters, a n d I th o u g h t I’ d raise th em to n ig h t. T hank y o u . M R .

D E P U T Y C H A IR M A N : T he C h airm an w o u ld just lik e to rem in d p eo p le th at if y o u could just keep your v o ices d o w n a b it if y o u h av e th e great n eed to v isit. T h e n o ise lev el is just g ettin g a little d istu rb in g . T h e M em ber fo r In n isfail. M R . S E V E R T S O N : T hank y o u , M r. C h airm an . I’ ve just go t a fe w co m m en ts to n ig h t. F irst of a ll, I’ d like to co n g ratu late th e m inister on h is n ew ap p o in tm en t to C o n su m er a n d C o rp o rate A ffairs.

In listen in g to th e d iscussion to n ig h t — I’ v e been th ro u g h sev en estim ates now , a n d every night th at w e co m e h e re , or aftern o o n , th e o pposition parties fe e l th at th e in crease in sp en d i n g is n ever en o u g h for w h atev er d ep artm en t w e’ re ta lk in g ab o u t. B ut w h en w e present th e to tal bu d g et, w e’ re accu sed of sp en d in g to o m u ch , so I don’t k now h o w y ou ach iev e sp en d in g m o re in ev ery particular estim ate a n d still co m e in w ith a b a l an c ed bu d g et or closer to a balan ced b u d g et. A n o th er area th at I w as ...

O n e of th e h o n . m em b ers fro m th e opp o sitio n m en tio n ed th e p ro x ies in referen ce to th e B u s i n ess C o rp o ratio n s A c t. I w as w o n d erin g if h e m ean t th at a n y b o d y th at w an ts to vote b y p ro x y w o u ld not b e allo w ed to v o te b y p ro x y an y m o re. T he w ay it’ s set u p n o w , yo u don’t h av e to sen d th e proxies in ; yo u can leav e th e m in yo u r desk d raw er o r pu t th em in th e w astepaper b ask et. Y o u still have th e o p p o r- tu n ity , th e w ay it is n o w , to ex ercise your proxy in w h atev er w ay you’ d lik e .

T o th e m in ister. In v o te 2, I w a s w o n d erin g if y o u could e x plain 2 .0 .1 , th e in crease of 3 1 percent in sp en d in g . C o m p ared to C alg ary , E d m o n to n , R ed D eer, a n d all th e other on es th at had su ch a slig h t in crease, R eg io n al A dm in istratio n had a real i n crease in th e estim ates th is y ear. I w a s g o in g to m ak e an o th er co m m en t, to o , w ith reg ard s to a n o p p o sitio n m em b er m en tio n in g th a t so cial services’ sp en d in g w as $ 6 9 m illio n an d o n ly rep resen ted ab o u t a 5 percent in c rea se .

I w as w o n d erin g if he m ean t th at sh o u ld be cut a n d w e sh o u ld sp en d m o re on th is o n e, because it w as o n ly 1 8 percent. In clo sin g , M r. C h airm an , I w o u ld be w illin g to w ait an d hear th e m in ister an sw er m e on that o n e q u estio n . T hank y o u . M R . D E P U T Y C H A IR M A N : T he M em ber fo r S m o k y R iv er. M R . P A S Z K O W S K I: T hank y o u , M r. C h airm an . I, to o , w o u ld lik e to co n g ratu late th e m inister an d w ish him w ell on h is a p p o in tm en t.

I’ m su re , w ith h is p rev io u s back g ro u n d an d h is p r e v io u s ex p erien ce, th at h e w ill han d le th e p o rtfo lio v ery , v ery ca p ab ly . I'm p leased to see th e in crease in th e b u d g et. H av in g g o n e th ro u g h th e V isio n 2 0 2 0 p ro cess, I certain ly ap p reciate in d ep th th e rap id ly m o v in g tim es th at w e are in , a n d it seem s to m e th at C o n su m er an d C o rp o rate A ffairs are p robably g o in g to b e a f fected a s m u ch , if not m o re, th an m any of th e other p o rtfo lio s.

I th in k w e’ re g o in g to hav e to b e v e r y cau tio u s a n d very carefu l th a t in d eed th is p o rtfo lio k eep s ab reast of th e tim e s. W ith th at th o u g h t in m in d , I w o u ld like to ask th e m in ister if h e p erh ap s co u ld g iv e u s a bit of in sig h t a s to how he w o u ld see h is dep artm en t stay in g w ith th e tim es, b ecause th ere are rap id ly ch an g in g eco n o m ic ch an g es, th ere are very rapid leg islativ e ch an g es, an d th e w h o le gam u t th at C o nsum er an d C o rp o rate A ffairs co v ers is g o in g to be affected on a d ay -to -d ay b a sis.

P erso n ally , I w o u ld b e overw h elm ed w ith th e idea of try in g to keep up to th ese rapid ch an g es, an d I w o n d er, M r. M in ister, if p erh ap s you’ ll b e a b le to g iv e u s a bit of a n overv iew as to h o w y o u m ay see your d epartm ent b ein g ab le to stay w ith th ese rapid ch a n g es. I th in k one of th e im p o rtan t issu es an d o n e of th e im p o rtan t th in g s th at w e h av e to d eal w ith is co n fid en ce.

I th in k w e h av e to be carefu l in th is H o u se p articu larly , a s leg islato rs, th at w e don’t co n tin u o u sly keep co m in g fo rw ard w ith th e g lo o m an d d o o m . I th in k w e really w an t to be careful of th a t. B ecau se if w e d o th a t, w e have a ten d en cy of u n d erm in in g th e reality of w h at is h ap p en in g . T oday w e are actu ally in a v ery , very p r o g ressiv e tim e in o ur h isto ry , an d yet d ay after day after d ay w e keep h earin g th at w e’ re g o in g to fa il, that th e sk y is fa llin g , th at w e’ re g o in g to d isin teg rate.

Y et th e eco n o m ic tim es of th e d ay in d icate so m eth in g en tirely different H o w d o w e expect fin an c i a l in stitu tio n s to co m e to our p rovince an d d evelop an d g ro w ? H o w d o w e ex p ect to h av e th e in d u stries co m e to our pro v in ce a n d g ro w w h en w e h av e peo p le tellin g u s th at th e sk y is g o in g to fa ll on u s to m o rro w ? I th in k w e h av e to really be ho n est w ith o u rselv es.

I th in k w e hav e to spend m o re tim e in try in g to b e co m e A lb ertan s, in try in g to b eco m e citizen s of A lb erta rath er th an in d iv id u als try in g to pursue our ow n in d iv id u al n eed s an d our o w n in d iv id u al cau ses. If w e d o th at a n d if w e ach iev e th a t, I th in k w e h av e a w o n d erfu l o p p o rtu n ity in th e next few y ea rs to b u ild th is p ro v in ce, m u ch m o re so th an w e hav e acco m p lish ed

42 4 A L B E R T A H A N S A R D Ju n e 2 0 , 1 9 8 9 in th e p ast. I w as pleased to see th at th e m inister w ill b e en d eav o u rin g to sp en d so m e w o rk o n th e In su ran ce A ct. In d eed , if th e m in ister is g o in g to be d o in g th a t, I w o n d er if p erh ap s so m e w o rk co u ld b e d one on th e in su ran ce ad ju sters a s w e ll. I h av e h eard m an y co m p lain ts w h ere th e w o rk of th e ad ju sters p erh ap s can leav e a little to be d esired .

T hey w ill qu o te o n e p rice a s an estim a te, a n d th en w h en it co m es d o w n to th e fin al reality , o n ce they've g o t th e job sort of lo ck ed u p , su d d en ly th in g s ch an g e an d th e w h o le pro cess is en tirely d ifferen t. I've talk ed to sev eral c o n stitu en ts w h o h av e fo u n d th is v ery u p settin g . I th in k p erh ap s so m e better reality co u ld be put in to th e w a y th at th o se p eo p le o p erate. A g ain I w o u ld lik e to en co u rag e th e m in ister to w ork in th is p articu lar a re a .

I th in k th e fin an cial in stitu tio n s w e’ re g o in g to h av e to w o rk w ith v ery clo sely , becau se w e h av e h ad so m e d i f ficu lt tim e s. I th in k , a s a g ro u p of leg islato rs, w e h av e to b u ild a n d en co u rag e a fo u n d atio n fo r that g ro u p th at w e hav e lost in th e p ast, an d I th in k w e really w ant to co m e to g eth er in th is area a s w e ll. W ith th a t, I’ ll clo se. T hank y o u , M r. C h airm an . M R . D E P U T Y C H A IR M A N : T he M em b er fo r C alg ary - B u ffa lo . M R . C H U M IR : T hank y o u , M r. C h airm an .

I’ d lik e to o p en b y a d d in g m y voice to th e ch o ru s of co n g ratu latio n s to th e m in ister u p o n tak in g up his n ew p o rtfo lio . I’ m g o in g to restrict m y co m m en ts to th e secu rities asp ect of h is p o rtfo lio an d w ill co m m en ce by e x p ressin g so m e co n cern a t th e co m m en ts w h ich hav e been m ad e d u rin g th e last six to 1 2 m o n th s fro m d ifferen t so u rce s w ith resp ect to th e A lb erta S to ck E x c h an g e . F irst, th e re w as a n

article in F orbes m ag azin e in w h ich th e A lb erta S to ck E x ch an g e w a s m en tio n ed in th e sam e b reath a s th e V an co u v er S to ck E x ch an g e, a n d th at w as not a v ery co m p lim en tary b reath . S eco n d ly , I n oted so m e v ery n asty co m m en ts w ith resp ect to th e A lb erta S to ck E x ch an g e b y a frien d of th e g o v ern m en t, th e T ory ch airm an of th e C o m m o n s fin an ce co m m ittee, M r. D o n B len k arn, w h o referred to th e A l b erta an d V an co u v er secu rities m ark ets a s dev elo p in g a reputat i o n a s a d en of th iev e s.

N o w , I don’ t in a n y w ay accep t w h at F o rb es m ag azin e m ay h av e allu d ed an d M r. B len k arn ou t an d out stated . B u t th e reali t y is th at w h en peo p le are m ak in g statem en ts to th at effec t, th e im ag e of th e A lb erta S to ck E x ch an g e h as got so m e v ery serio u s p ro b lem s.

W h en our sto ck ex ch an g e, th e m ain v eh icle th ro u g h w h ich our co m p an ies raise m o n ey , has th at ty p e of im ag e p ro b lem , th e cap ital m ark ets in th is pro v in ce h av e a co m m en s u r a t e im ag e p ro b lem , b ecau se there’ s n o su b stitu te fo r th e i n teg rity a n d reputation of our in stitu tio n s.

T h ey v ery s i g n ifican tly affect th e cap acity of our co m p an ies to raise m o n e y , a n d acco rd in g ly it’ s ab so lu tely essen tial th at th is g o v ern m en t m o v e a s quickly a s it p o ssib ly can to estab lish , if not re - e sta b lish , for th e fu tu re a rep u tatio n of rectitu d e a n d so lid deali n g s w h ich w ill red o u n d to th e benefit of in stitu tio n s an d f u n d raisin g in th is p ro v in ce.

N o w , I w o u ld note th at th e A lb erta S to ck E x ch an g e o n Jan u ary 1 of th is year resp o n d ed to so m e exten t by tig h ten in g u p its ru les w ith respect to listin g s, a n d th at is a g o o d start. W e h av e to co n tin u e in th at d irectio n . W e have n o w h ad a piece of leg islatio n fro m th e m inister w ith resp ect to in sid er tra d in g a n d ta k eo v e rs, w h ich is an o th er g o o d piece of leg islatio n .

It’ s lo n g o v erd u e, an d th o se w h o fo llo w ed th e P rin cip al G ro u p fia sc o can’ t h av e b een other th an b em u sed , if not am u sed , ab o u t th e failu re of o u r sto ck ex ch an g e an d o ur secu rities co m m issio n to ta k e ev en a p assin g in terest in th e ch ican ery su rro u n d in g th e tra d in g of th e sh ares in th e M atrix co m p an y , w h ich w as a part of th e P rin cip al em p ire. S o th o se are in itiativ es w h ich are a g o o d sta rt, but w e h av e to k eep m o v in g in th at d irectio n .

N o w , I’ d lik e to co m m en t ab o u t th e role of junior ca p ital p o o ls in th e sch em e of th e A lberta S to ck E x ch an g e. T h ey b e co m e a m ajo r co m p o n en t. T hey’ re an ex p erim en t, but they’ re a n u n u su al ex p erim en t. I haven’ t m ad e a d efin itiv e d ecisio n a s to w h ere I stan d w ith respect to th o se in v estm en ts, b u t I m u st say th at m y in itial reactio n w h en I h eard ab o u t th em w as s k e p ticism , an d m y sk ep ticism co n tin u es. I’ ll te ll yo u w h y , M r. C h airm an .

T hat is, w h en I h eard ab o u t th ese blind p o o ls, I th o u g h t b ack to m y d ay s a s a law stu d en t of com p an y la w . T h ere w as a b o o k called G o w er o n C o m p a n y L aw . In th e b o o k M r. G o w er, in h is op en in g ch ap ters, w as d ealin g w ith th e n eed fo r secu rities leg islatio n , a n d h e talk ed ab o u t th e h isto ry of sp ecu latio n . H e g av e an exam p le g o in g back to th e d ay s of th e S o u th S ea B u b b le, w h ich w a s o n e of th e m ost ram pant p erio d s of sp ecu latio n in th e h isto ry of m ark ets.

A s th e p rim ary ex am p l e of th e heat of sp ecu latio n h e g av e o n e ex am p le of a c o m p an y w h ich w as b ein g so ld o n th e sto ck ex ch an g e in L o n d o n a t th a t tim e — th is w as th e late 1 7 0 0 s — a n d it w as a co m p an y ... A N H O N . M E M B E R : In 1 6 8 0 . M R . C H U M IR : In 1 6 8 0 ? I’ m corrected b y M r. R u m p o le h e re : 1 6 8 0 . T h is w as a co m p an y w h ich w as described a s a co m p an y th e n atu re of w h ich w ill b e disclo sed in due co u rse, a n d th e c o m p an y so ld o u t, th e su b scrip tio n so ld o u t, im m ed iately .

W e ll, h e g av e th at a s th e ex am p le of ram pant u n in fo rm ed sp ec u latio n , p eo p le b u y in g th in g s an d b u y in g sto ck in co m p an ies th ey didn’ t k n o w an y th in g ab o u t. I lo o k ed at th ese blind p o o ls as soon a s I saw th em d efin ed , an d I said th at th ese are M r. G ow er’ s ex am p l e s of co m p an ies th e natu re of w h ich w ill b e d isclo sed in d u e co u rse . They’ re in v itatio n s to fra u d , ch ican ery , ram p an t sp ecu latio n , ab sen t th e v ery strictest of reg u latio n s.

W h en o n e m o v es in th at d irectio n , o n e is lo o k in g fo r tro u b le. W hat’ s a t stak e is not sim p ly th e m o n ey of a g ro u p of in v esto rs in a n y p a r ticu lar co m p an y , b u t w hat’ s at stak e is th e w h o le rep u tatio n a n d in teg rity of th e fin an cial m ark ets here in th e p rovince of A lb erta. B ecau se o n ce y o u get a b ad rep u tatio n — an d th e bad ap p le s, th e ro tten a p p les, affect your reputation an d th ey can tain t ev ery t h i n g that’ s d o n e in th is p ro v in ce.

S o I m u st sa y th at I’ v e h ad so m e g reat concern w ith resp ect to th o se junior cap ital p o o ls. A nd it’ s quite clear th at there’ s a need n o w — they’ v e b een in ex isten ce fo r so m e period of tim e n o w ; so m e tw o y e a rs, I b eliev e — fo r an in -d ep th ob jectiv e r e v iew of th e m erits of th at ty p e of in v estm en t. I w o u ld h o p e ... I w o u ld b e d isap p o in ted if so m eo n e — th e g o v ern m en t, th e m in - ister’s o ffice, h is p red ecesso r, h im self — has not in fa ct co m m iss i o n e d su ch an in -d ep th objectiv e stu d y .

S o m y q u estio n w o u ld b e : w e ll, w h at is th e m inister d o in g to rev iew th e su ccess or o th erw ise an d th e im p act of th o se junior cap ital p o o ls on th e cap ital m ark ets an d th eir p ro p riety fo r th e lo n g -term fu tu re in A lb erta? N o w , M r. C h airm an , one of th e tren d s w e’ v e b een seein g in recen t tim e s is th e in creasin g g lo b alizatio n an d n atio n alizatio n of secu rities m ark ets. W e saw in th e P rin cip al G roup a ffair th e

Ju n e 20, 1 9 8 9 A L B E R T A H A N S A R D 4 2 5 p ro b lem s w h ere a fin an cial c o m p an y is estab lish ed in o n e j u r i s d ictio n an d its secu rities are so ld in an o th er. T here are m an y o th er ex am p les. W e h av e n o w a situ atio n of co m p etin g regulat i o n s w ith respect to th e fo rm er P rem ier of B ritish C o lu m b ia, w h ere tw o p ro v in ces are claim in g jurisdiction w ith resp ect to a ch arg e of in sid er trad in g .

It’ s beco m in g in creasin g ly im p o rta n t, w h en sto ck s w h ich are issu ed here o n th e A lb erta S to ck E x ch an g e can be trad ed at all ho u rs of th e n ig h t an d d ay th ro u g h ou t th e w o rld , th at w e leav e beh in d u s w h at h as been a v ery i n sular attitu d e, th at w e are fo rtress A lb erta, an d m o v e to stretch our co -operation w ith other jurisdictions in C an ad a an d in d eed jurisdictions thro u g h o u t th e cou n try to en su re th at th e in v esto rs th ro u g h o u t th e w o rld receive th e p ro tectio n th ey n e e d .

I w as so m ew h at d isap p o in ted to read in H a nsard w ith r e sp ect to th e budget estim ates fo r th is dep artm en t last y ear th at th e go v ern m en t of A lb erta, th ro u g h th e A lb erta S ecu rities C o m m issio n , h ad declined to atten d a m eetin g sp o n so red b y th e S ecu rities an d E x ch an g e C o m m issio n in th e U n ited S tates w h ich secu rities c o m m issio n s fro m O n tario , Q u eb ec, a n d B .C . had a t te n d ed . I th in k th at w as sh o rtsig h ted . I th in k it’ s sy m b o lic of w h at is a very in su lar attitu d e of th is p ro v in ce.

I th in k it’ s an attitu d e w h ich w as en g en d ered in th e day s w h en w e had th e fab u lo u s riches of n ab o b s an d felt th at w e co u ld g o it alo n e . B ut n o b o d y can g o it alo n e; it’ s an in terd ep en d en t w o rld . I w o u ld lik e to see m o re co -operation w ith th e A m erican a u th o rities, w ith au th o rities in sto ck ex ch an g es ou tsid e of C an ad a, but p a r ticu larly w ith other jurisdictions in th is co u n try . N o w , there’ s a g reat deal of talk ab o u t a n ational secu rities co m m issio n . It’ s very co n tro v ersial.

I’ m not p ro p o sin g a n a tio n al secu rities co m m issio n in an y w ay , but I th in k an y b o d y w h o is fo llo w in g th e issu es realizes th at th ere h as to b e so m e cen tral co -o rd in atin g b ody th ro u g h co -o p eratio n of th e p ro v in ces, p erh ap s w ith th e participation of th e fed eral g o vernm e n t or p erh ap s n o t, but at least so m e stro n g n atio n al c o - o rd in atin g b o d y . I w ould lik e to hear fro m th e m in ister w h at h e is d o in g to en su re that th is co -o p eratio n th at is so essen tial fo r th e fu tu re tak es p lace.

I w o u ld also b e v ery in terested if th e m inister co u ld fill u s in w ith respect to w h ere h is go v ern m en t stan d s on th e issu e of s u b sid iaries of b an k s an d trust co m p an ies co n tro llin g b ro k erag e h o u ses. T he O n tario , Q u eb ec, an d B ritish C o lu m b ia gov ern m e n t s hav e sp ecifically allo w ed su ch co n tro l.

B y virtue of th eir ro le in th e natio n al sch em e of th in g s an d b y virtue of w h at th e fed eral g o v ernm ent h as b een d o in g , it m ay b e th a t our o fficial p osition o n th is m atter is alm o st acad em ic, b ecause th e d ie s seem to b e cast n atio n ally . I’ d be v ery in terested to hear th e m inister’ s an aly sis an d assessm en t of th e im p licatio n s of th at fo r th e secu rities in d u stry a n d w hat d irectio n th is g o v ern m en t w o u ld lik e to see o n th a t issu e . M r.

C h airm an , a n issu e that arises w ith respect to issu es of secu rities of a n y k in d , w h eth er it b e th ro u g h fin a n cial en tities w ith respect to n o tes, b o n d s, or th ro u g h th e issu in g of sto c k , relates to th e proper provision of fin an cial in fo rm atio n to in v est o r s an d th e proper pro v isio n of fin an cial in fo rm atio n req u ires proper ru les to regulate th e au d itin g pro fessio n .

W e’ v e seen in recent years th a t a g reat num ber of q u estio n s h av e arisen w ith respect to th e failu re of au d ito rs to play a n ad eq u ate ro le in th e failu re of th e C an ad ian C o m m ercial B an k , th e N o rth lan d B an k , an d to som e extent in th e failu re of th e P rin cip al G ro u p of C o m p an ies. T he au d itin g profession h as been v ery co g n izan t of so m e of th e failin g s.

They’ v e been co n d u ctin g stu d ies an d th e y hav e b een m ak in g reco m m en d atio n s w ith respect to an e n - h an ced an d b eefed -u p role fo r au d ito rs: new resp o n sib ilities a n d n ew stru ctu res w ith in co rp o ratio n s to en su re th at au d ito rs a re a b le to d o th e best job possible fo r in v esto rs.

O n e of th e p ro b lem s b eing faced b y a u d ito rs, of co u rse , is th a t they’ re in th e m id d le b etw een , on th e o n e h an d , m an ag em e n t w h ich h as d esires w ith respect to how fin an cial statem en ts w o u ld be p resen ted , an d on th e other han d th eir resp o n sib ility to in v e sto rs.

T here are a num ber of stratag em s th at h av e b een p r o p o sed th at are used in so m e ju risd ictio n s, p articu larly relatin g to attem p tin g to render au d ito rs resp o n sib le to a s in d ep en d en t a g ro u p a s po ssib le on th e b o ard of d irecto rs rather th an to in v o lv e m an ag em en t. T h is m ay m ean audit co m m ittees to tally co n sisti n g of o u tsid e d irecto rs. T here m ay be other m ech an ism s.

B ut I p erso n ally b eliev e, an d w h en I rev iew ed w h at h ap p en ed in th e P rin cip al affair m y v iew s w ere rein fo rced , th at th e ro le of au d ito rs is th e k ey , th e m o st fu n d am en tal ro le, of a n y of th e p lay ers in th e realm of protection of in v esto rs.

I’ m w o n d erin g w hether or not th e m inister h as g iv en a n y co n sid eratio n to m ak in g so m e am en d m en ts to th e B u sin ess C o r p o ratio n s A ct w h ich w o u ld in crease th e resp o n sib ility of au d ito rs o r, at th e very le ast, red efin e an d im p ro v e th e ro le of au d ito rs in our co rp o ratio n s an d en su re that w e g et th e v ery b est a n d m ost resp o n sib le ad v ice fro m th e m . F in ally , M r.

C hairm an — an d I say "fin ally " not b ecau se it ex h au sts th e ran g e of issu e s, but "m y tim e is rapidly fa d in g ," a s B o b b y D y lan w o u ld hav e said . I’ d lik e to raise so m e q u estio n s w ith resp ect to th e role of th e A lb erta S ecu rities C o m m issio n in reg u latin g th e issu an ce of n o tes. I’ m p articu larly th in k in g of th e ro le of th e A lb erta S ecu rities C o m m issio n in th e issu an ce of n o tes b y P rin cip al G ro u p L td .

W e saw at th at tim e th at fo r a lo n g p eriod th e A lb erta S ecu rities C o m m issio n licen sed th a t co m p an y to issu e n o tes w ith very sad resu lts fo r th o se n o teh o ld ers. M R . D E P U T Y C H A IR M A N : H o n . m em b er, I don’ t h av e m y ex p ert ad v isers at th e T able right n o w , but you w ere m a k in g a p o in t. P erh ap s yo u co u ld u se co m p an ies other th an P rin cip al tru st or P rin cip al n o teh o ld ers. I th in k th ere are leg al th in g s g o in g o n th e re . M R . C H U M IR : W ell, th e concern I h av e, M r.

C h airm an , is th at w e h av e seen ex am p les in w h ich th e A lb erta S ecu rities C o m m issio n h as w ith d raw n au th o rity to issu e n o tes a t a p erio d w h ich w as to o late to d o an y g o o d . I’ m w o n d erin g w h eth er o r not th e m in ister is rev iew in g th is role of th e A lb erta S ecu rities C o m m iss i o n , th is oversig h t ro le, in o rd er to see that th ey p lay a m o re m ean in g fu l an d m o re tim ely ro le in th e fu tu re . I’ m w o n d erin g — an d I p ropose to m ention th is co m p an y b u t in a d ifferent co n tex t, M r.

C h airm an — in lig h t of th e u n h ap p y ev en ts relatin g to that co m p an y an d th e series of co m p an ies an d in lig h t of th e p ro m ise of th e P rem ier to reim b u rse th e d ep o sito rs in F irst In v esto rs an d A sso ciated In v esto rs, w h eth er th e m in ister co u ld ad v ise w hether or not th e P rem ier’ s p ro m ise to reim burse in v esto rs in th e ev en t th ere is a fin d in g of w ro n g d o in g also ap p lies to th ese n o teh o ld ers in th e ev en t th e re is a fin d in g of w ro n g d o in g b y th e O m b u d sm an w h o , I u n d e r stan d , is rev iew in g th e situ atio n of th ese n o teh o ld ers, so m eth in g w h ich th e C o d e co m m issio n is not d o in g .

In b rief, th e O m b u d sm an is rev iew in g th ese n o teh o ld ers, an d I’ m w o n d erin g w h eth er or not th e m inister is prepared to ad v ise w h eth er th a t p ro m ise p ertain s to th ese n o teh o ld ers a s w e ll. S o th o se are m y co m m en ts, M r. C h airm an , a n d I w ill n o w

4 2 6 A L B E R T A H A N S A R D Ju n e 20, 1 9 8 9 ced e th e flo o r. M R . D E P U T Y C H A IR M A N : T he M em ber fo r B o w V alley . M R . M U S G R O V E : T hank y o u , M r. C h airm an . I just had a fe w co m m en ts to m ake ab o u t th e bu d g et of C o n su m er an d C o rp o rate A ffairs. F irst o ff, I’ d lik e to co n g ratu late th e m in ister on h is ap p o in tm en t, an d seco n d ly , o n co m in g up w ith a bu d g et so so o n after h is ap p o in tm en t th at reflects th e tim es as far a s in v estm en t is co n cern ed .

W ith our co m puter ag e an d fast-ch an g in g tech n o lo g y th e b u d g et reflects th e need to secu re th e av erag e in v e sto r, p articu larly , an d g iv e him so m e co n fid en ce in w h at th e in v estm e n t w o rld is lik e . I’ v e alw ay s ap p reciated th e D ep artm en t of C o n su m er a n d C o rp o rate A ffairs becau se p erio d ically I h av e so m e of m y c o n stitu en ts co m e in feelin g th ey have been b ad ly d o n e b y on so m e d eal they’ v e m ad e.

I go t to k n o w th e reg io n al d irector of C o n su m er an d C o rp o rate A ffairs on a first-n am e b asis, an d I just referred th em to h im . H e g en erally lo o k ed after th eir co n cern s. M y co lleag u e fro m S m o k y R iv er m en tio n ed th e in su ran ce co m p an ies. I’ v e had so m e p ro b lem s w ith in su ran c e, no t persona l l y but in th e w ay in su ran ce co m p an ies a n d ad ju sters h av e h an d led in su ran ce claim s. N o w , I th in k w e’ v e all ex p erien ced a tim e w h en w e’ v e h ad so m e ty p e of a m otor v eh icle accid en t.

If y o u g o to th e b o d y shop an d ask fo r an estim ate on g ettin g yo u r v eh icle fix ed , th e first q u estio n th e y ask is: is it in su red ? W hat’ s th e n am e of yo u r in su ran ce co m p an y ? E t cetera. I’ v e ex p erien ced sev eral tim es w h en I have had a m inor b o d y job to g et d o n e, an d I w en t in a n d to ld th e b o d y sh o p th at it w asn’ t i n su red , b ecau se I k n ew th at it w as g o in g to co st a lot le ss th an th e in crease in m y in su ran ce w o u ld b e if I put it th ro u g h a n in su ra n c e co m p an y .

O n e d ay recen tly I w as h av in g lu n ch an d it so h ap p en ed th at I h ad an in su ran ce ad ju ster a n d an in su ran ce b ro k er b o th h av in g lu n ch w ith m e, so I bro u g h t th is u p .

I said , "Y o u k n o w , if I h av e a m o to r v ehicle accid en t an d I tak e it in an d it’ s not in su red , th e co st for a repair job is g o in g to b e co n sid erab ly le ss th an if I p u t it th ro u g h th e in su ran ce co m p an y ." I said to th e ad ju ster, "W h y d o yo u d o th at?" "W e ll," he said , "w e g o ou t a n d g et e stim ates fro m th e b o d y shop o n your behalf bu t fo r th e in su ran ce c o m p an y , an d w e just estim ate on th at b asis.

B ut w e do reco g n ize th a t." S o I said to th e in su ran ce co m p an y b ro k er, "Y o u p eo p le m u st recognize th at." A n d h e said , "O h , y es, w e reco g n ize th at that’ s g o in g o n , but w h atev er th e b ill is that’ s sen t in b y th e a d ju ster, w e p ay it." W h at th ey actu ally d o is ad d it o n to th e co st of in su ran ce at th e en d of th e y ea r. S o th e perso n th at really p ay s th e bill h ere is th e cu sto m er.

N o w , I’ m not su re w h eth er if th is ty p e of th in g w as c o r rected , even fo r th e u n in su red vehicle th e price m ig h t be h ig h er an d it w o u ld b e av erag ed o u t. I’ m not su re w h at th e en d resu lt of an in v estig atio n of th at w o u ld b e . B ut I’ v e alw a y s felt th a t th is is so m eth in g th at C o n su m er an d C o rp o rate A ffairs co u ld lo o k in to an d fin d out w h y th e cost of v eh icle rep airs is h ig h er b ecau se it is in su red rather th an it not b ein g in su red .

I certain ly say ag ain th at I w ill co m m en d th e m in ister on th e b u d g et he’ s bro u g h t o u t. It’ s not a very h igh-dollar b u d g et. I b eliev e it’ s a to tal of so m eth in g lik e $ 1 9 m illio n , w h ich is proba b l y th e low est in our to tal estim ates, an d he certain ly put th e in creases in th e right place. S o , M r. C h airm an , I w o u ld w ish h im lu ck o n carry in g th ro u g h w ith h is b u d g et. T hank y o u . M R . D E P U T Y C H A IR M A N : T he M em ber fo r R o ck y M ount a i n H o u se . M R . L U N D : T hank y o u , M r. C h airm an .

F irst of all, I’ d lik e to co n g ratu late th e m inister o n h is ap p o in tm en t to th is p o rtfo lio . K n o w in g th is p articular m inister fro m h is p rev io u s position a n d h av in g w o rk ed w ith him in th a t, I th in k it’ s a very ap p ro p riate o n e. I’ m su re he’ll d o a g o o d job, particu larly w ith th e em p h as i s o n fo resig h t th at h e p u ts in to all h is p o sitio n s. I am v ery p leased w ith th e estim ates. I th in k it’ s a v ery posit i v e ty p e of b udget an d p rogram th at h e h as su b m itted to u s.

I’ m p leased to see th at there’ s a 4 5 .7 percent in crease in th e e d u catio n part of th e estim ates. I th in k that’ s ex trem ely im p o rta n t, th at w e m ak e our citizen s aw are of h o w bu sin ess sh o u ld b e d o n e in th e p ro v in ce of A lb erta. If th ey w an t to tak e risk s th at a re a little farth er o u t, w e ll, a t least they’ re aw are of w h at they’ re g e t tin g in to . I th in k that’ s ex trem ely im p o rtan t. I d o b eliev e w e sh o u ld try to keep g o v ern m en t o u t a s m u ch a s p o ssib le a s far a s w ritin g a b u n ch m o re reg u latio n s.

A g a in , w h en w e listen to our so cialist frien d s in d icatin g th a t, y o u k n o w , w e need a ll th ese new reg u latio n s an d m o re reg u latio n s in th e L an d lo rd an d T enant A c t, in fact p ro b ab ly w h at w o u ld h ap p en is th a t you’ d d riv e aw ay th e in v esto rs a n d th e h o u sin g w o u ld g o d o w n an d th e p rices u p . It doesn’ t w o rk . O n e area th at I w as co n cern ed ab o u t — a n d I see it h as b een ad d ressed in th is estim ate — an d that’ s th e o n e o n fran ch isin g . I co m m en d y o u fo r in creasin g th at b udget by 2 5 .8 p ercen t.

L ik e th e M em ber fo r S m o k y R iv e r, I’ m an x io u s to hear ab o u t h o w y o u are g o in g to keep up w ith a ll th ese rap id ch an g es in our s o ciety an d in th e fin an cial in d u stry . S o w ith th a t, I w ish you a ll th e b est in p ro ceed in g w ith th e se e stim ates, an d th an k s fo r g iv in g m e th e o p p o rtu n ity . M R . D E P U T Y C H A IR M A N : T he M em b er fo r E d m o n to n - S trath co n a . M R . W R IG H T : T hank y o u , M r. C h airm an .

I w as ta lk in g b riefly ab o u t th e F ran ch ises A ct w h en I w as so ru d ely i n t e r rupted b y th e buzzer last tim e. It w a s to th is effect, th a t th e F ran ch ises A ct is ex cellen t in its screen in g of p ro sp ectu ses, b u t it say s n o th in g ab o u t th e co n tin u ed m o n ito rin g of th e fran ch ise o n ce it’ s b een accep ted an d ap p ro v ed .

T h e o n ly reco u rse of th e fran ch isee, a s w e have seen in a num ber of cases in th e last y e a r, is ex p en siv e leg al actio n ev en th o u g h th e fran ch isee alleg es, a n d in fa c t it w o u ld ap p ear in one or tw o of th e cases th a t th e case w a s, th at th e te rm s of th e fran ch ise had b een not ab id ed b y a t a ll.

W h ile it sh o u ld no t b e th e case th at w e sh o u ld h av e on th e staff of th is d epartm ent sn o o p ers to check on th e p ro g ress of fran ch ises, it certain ly sh o u ld b e th e case, I su g g est, th a t fran ch isees sh o u ld b e a b le to co m plain to th e dep artm en t — th e fran ch ise sectio n or w h atev er y o u call it — of b reach of th e fran ch ise ag reem en ts w h ich hav e been so carefu lly screen ed in th e first p lace. S o th e m inister w o u ld h av e th e pow er to can cel th e fran ch ise fo r g o o d reaso n .

I su b m it th at th is is so m eth in g th at is g o o d co n su m er leg islatio n an d a reaso n ab le co n seq u en ce of h av in g fran ch ise leg islatio n a t a ll. I’ m su re th e m inister w ill see H ansard to m o rro w an d get th e drift of m y rem ark s, or h is assistan ts w ill. L ast y ear I did ask th e m in ister, w ith reg ard to th e D ebtors’ A ssistan ce B o ard , how m uch assistan ce h ad been g iv en to fa rm ers, w h o are perh ap s th e class of peo p le m ost stro n g ly a f fe cte d , m ost tra g ic ally affected b y in su rm o u n tab le d eb ts in th is

June 20, 1 9 8 9 A L B E R T A H A N S A R D 4 2 7 p ro v in ce. I ag ree th at m an y of th em have d eb ts that are o w ed to fed eral in stitu tio n s, over w hich th e D ebtors’ A ssistan ce B o ard h as no jurisdiction, but th ey th em selv es, in th e case of th e fa rm cred it A ct, d o have legislation w h ich serv es to po stp o n e fo reclo su res. T hat’s not av ailab le to p rovincial b o rro w ers fro m A A D C , for ex am p le. B ut I’ ve never com e acro ss farm ers w h o have actu ally resorted to th e D ebtors’ A ssistan ce B o ard .

I think th ere is real scope there for help in th e cou n try to farm ers beset b y really h o rrendous debt pro b lem s w h ich , for th e m ost p art, are none of their fa u lt: th e inex o rab le result of high in terest rates, th e failure of lan d p rices, m o re th an o ccasio n al bad crop y ears — it o n ly tak es on e year to set you really behind th e eight b all, a s y o u know — an d , of co u rse, lo w co m m o d ity p rices, lo w grain p rices. I didn’ t get an an sw er last tim e on th at. I don’t believe I did — I’ m sure I didn’ t — either at th e tim e or later. It’ s partly cu rio sity on m y

part in order to serve m y clien ts b etter but also a su g g estio n to th e g o v ernm ent by w h ich th ey m ight im p ro v e s e r v ice to farm ers. T he P ro fessio n al an d O ccu p atio n al A sso ciatio n s R eg istratio n A ct is an o th er A ct in th e m inister’ s jurisdiction. It’ s a fairly n ew A ct, an d I w o u ld be very glad to h av e a report on th e p r o g ress of it. T h e last report from th e d ep artm en t, fo r 1 9 8 7 -8 8 — an d I thank th e m inister for m ak in g su re that report cam e out.

T his tim e last year w e w ere tw o y ears behind w ith th e rep o rt, so that’ s an ad v an ce. B ut an y w ay , it doesn’ t hav e a report on th e o p eratio n of that Act d o u b tless because it w as a new A ct an d hadn’t been assessed . It’ s a g ood A ct an d d o es not result in au g - m en tatio n , p articularly, of th e staff of th e departm ent, because if peo p le have co m p lain ts ab o u t w ro n g fu l d iscip lin e in th e asso ciat i o n s , th e resort is to th e c o u rts an d not to b u reau crats.

B ut I’ d b e in terested in w hether th ere is a n y volum e of co m p lain ts ab o u t th e actu al operation of reg istratio n s. I ad d it w asn’t a case th at there w as n o report — it w as in th e last an n u al report — but s i m ply th e case that th ey stated th e A ct w as in ex isten ce an d , I th in k , half a dozen asso ciatio n s had applied an d o b tained reg istratio n . T he R eal E state A gents’ L icen sin g A ct an d th e co-op A ct a re both w ithin th e p u rv iew of th e m in ister.

I rep eat, an d I su p p o se I w ill co n tin u e to repeat a s lo n g a s n o th in g is do n e ab o u t it, w h at I su b m it is a very unfair m o n opoly ex ercised by th e co -o p erativ e listin g b u reau s of E d m o n to n , C alg ary , L eth b rid g e: real estate co -o p erativ e listing b u reau s fam iliarly kn o w n a s th e m u ltip le listin g serv ices in th o se cities. N o w , they’ re in th o se cities, bu t th eir area s of o p eration sp read out to the su rro u n d in g co u n try sid e. T here m ay b e so m e other o n es I’ m no t aw a re o f.

T he unfair m onopoly I allu d e to w o rk s lik e th is: w ithin each of these area s there is a m ultiple listin g b u reau . For p ractical p u rp o ses it’ s a necessity for salesm en sellin g resid en ces, c e r tain ly used resid en ces. T here are salesm an and a g en ts w h o sell n ew resid en ces, but y o u have to sell used resid en ces b y th e m u l tip le listin g bureau for practical p u rp o ses.

T he rules of th ese co -o p s, w h ich are m o deled o n th e E d m o n to n co -o p , w h ich w as in co rp o rated in th e late ’ 5 0 s, req u ire th at no m em ber of th e co - o p is en titled to e m p lo y a salesm an w h o is not a m em ber of th e co -o p him self or h erself.

C o n seq u en tly , if a salesm an is d i s m issed fo r an y reaso n , g o o d or b ad , fro m a m em ber em p lo y in g a g e n t, he ceases to have th e p riv ileg es of th e m u ltip le listin g an d h as to get back in to em p lo y m en t, cannot w ork on h is ow n — h is licen ce actu ally disap p ears, cu rio u sly en o u g h ; b riefly to o — an d cannot get in to em ploym ent u n less accep ted b ack in th e b o ard ; cannot get into th e b o ard , th o u g h , u n less em p lo y ed by a n ag en t m em b er.

S o you can see there are catch -2 2 p o ssib ilities th e re , w h ich u sually are g ot round if there’ s good w ill by fu d g in g th e reg u latio n s a b it. B ut here’ s the point. T he co u rts have said that th e m u ltip le listin g b u reau d o es not h av e to give an y reasons for not ad m itt i n g th at salesm an back in to th eir n u m b er. It’ s lik e a clu b , a s it w ere , an d th e club doesn’t have to g iv e reaso n s, or a so ciety doesn’ t have to g ive reaso n s, for exclu d in g m em b ers w h o a re a p p ly in g . It’ s as sim p le a s th at.

Y et by that very unfair sy stem , salesm en can lo se th eir liv in g or at least have to m ove to a n o th er city . S o m e have had to d o that becau se of arb itrary actio n on th e part of th e m u ltip le listin g b u reau s. T h is is under th e aeg is of th e C o -o p erativ e A sso ciatio n s Act. T hey sh o u ld not q u alify a s co -o p erativ e asso ciatio n s for th e sim p l e reason that all the m em b ers d o not have eq u al v o tin g rig h ts, w h ich is a n essen tial elem ent of cau se. A ll th is w as set o u t y ears a g o by th e first O m b u d sm an , M r.

M cC lellan , in a report in ab o u t 1 9 6 9 on th e P h ilip zy k case. It w a s th e o n e case of his th at th e S o cial C red it g o v ernm ent did not accept. H e said th at th e p articular m an sh o u ld be com p en sated an d so o n — that’ s a n other sto ry — but h e said it sh o u ld not be a co -o p . It’ s co n tin u ed to be co-op sin ce. T h ey have an excellent reputation in g en e ra l. T hey certain ly h av e the ears of m em b ers of th e A ssem b ly ; w e’ ll b e w in ed an d dined b y th em in tw o or th ree w eek s.

B ut th ere is th is lin g erin g in ju stice, as I say , in th e o p eration of th e m u ltip le listin g b u reau s w h ich is sq u arely w ithin th e resp o n sib ility of th is m in ister. I can su p p ly th e n am es of th e cases if you need to see th e d etails. M r. C h airm an , th e S o cieties A ct w as to be replaced b y th e V o lu n teer In co rp o ratio n s A ct. T hat w as intro d u ced in 1 9 8 7 a s B ill 5 4 an d w ith d raw n b ecau se it really didn’t answ er to th e p u r p o se.

It w asn’ t o n ly th e S o cieties A ct that w a s to be rep laced ; it w as also part of th e C o m p an ies Act. I say it w as su rp risin g th at th e A ct did not an sw er to th e pu rp o se b ecause it w as alm o st v e r b atim th e d raft A ct of th e Institute of L aw R esearch an d R efo rm , w hich in gen eral tu rn s out ver y g ood stu ff. B ut I ag ree w ith th e m inister of th e day th at w ith d rew that B ill in th at th e V o lu n teer In co rp o ratio n s A ct w as to o form al to co n v en ien tly serv e th e p u rpose of the S o cieties Act.

It w asn’ t a n y m ore so m eth in g th e w om en’ s in stitu te could g o d o w n , let us say , to th e co m p an ies branch for an d get a fo rm an d fill it in an d w o rk it su ccessfu lly . T hey’ d need a law yer; they’ d need m in u te b o o k s. S o m e m ore fo rm ality d o u b tless w as in o rder, but f o r m ality th at co u ld b e neg o tiated su ccessfu lly b y an ordinary citiz e n w h o can read an d w rite. W h y , th en , sh o u ld th e S o cieties A ct be replaced?

T he probl e m is set out on page 1 3 of report 49 of th e Institute of L a w R esearch an d R efo rm on th e p ro p o sals for a new A lberta Act. In a M arch 1 9 8 7 p u blication th ey sa id : T h e p ro b le m w ith A lb e rta la w is n o t th a t th e re is a v o id : a n y o n e c a n fo rm a c o rp o ra te e n tity o f o n e k in d o r a n o th e r — a " c o m p a n y " u n d e r th e C o m p a n ie s A c t, a " s o c ie ty " u n d e r th e S o c ie tie s A c t, o r a " c o rp o ra tio n " u n d e r th e B u s in e s s C o rp o ra t i o n s A c t — fo r a n y p u rp o s e .

T hen th ey g o on to ex p lain : T h e p ro b le m is ra th e r, th a t th e m a c h in e ry p ro v id e d b y th e B u s in e s s C o rp o ra tio n s A c t, b e in g d e s ig n e d to m e e t th e n e e d s o f b u s in e s s c o rp o ra tio n s , is n o t s u ita b le fo r n o n -p ro fit a s s o c ia t i o n ; th e m a c h in e ry p ro v id e d b y th e S o c ie tie s A c t is in c o m p l e t e a n d o b s o le te ; a n d th e m a c h in e ry p ro v id e d b y th e C o m p a n i e s A c t s u ffe rs b o th fro m b e in g d e s ig n e d fo r b u s in e s s c o rp o r a t i o n s a n d fro m b e in g o b s o le te .

S o th at neatly su m s it u p . I think that’ s tru e, an d it’s eq u ally tru e th at th e V o lu n teer In co rp o ratio n s A ct had th e d ifficu lties

4 2 8 A L B E R T A H A N S A R D Ju n e 20, 1 9 8 9 I’ ve alluded to . B ut m y questio n is, of co u rse, w hat’ s b ein g done ab o u t th a t? C an the V o lu n teer In co rp o ratio n s A ct be s a l v ag ed , or m ust w e g o back to m o re th an one A ct or p erh ap s a job w hich really doesn’ t try in th e in terests of u n ifo rm ity to cover th o se three sp aces w ith a sin g le set of ru les. T he S ecu rities A ct is b efore th e L eg islatu re, so w e can d eal w ith that w h en it’ s d eb ated .

T here is o ne g en eral area, th o u g h , w h ich isn’ t in th ere at a ll, w h ich p erh ap s th e m inister sh o u ld co n sid er w h en it co m es to th e d isclo su re p ro v isio n s. T hat is, it seem s to m e th at not o n ly m ust th e d isclo su re be of th e su b m iss i o n s , th e fin an cial statem en ts, an d th e like su b m itted to th e S ecu rities C o m m issio n , w h ich h ith erto w e could not see an d now w e can if th e A ct g o es th ro u g h , but also th at in fo rm atio n should b e av ailab le w h ere th e pub lic g o es to b u y th e secu rities.

W hen they’ re co n sid erin g w hether to tak e out the in v estm en t certificate or th e sh are or w h atev er th e secu rity is, th ey sh o u ld b e ab le to call then an d th ere for th e au d ited fin an cial statem en t, reg u lar fin an cial statem en t, of a pub lic co m p an y so th ey can be in a m uch better w ay , if th ey so c h o o se, to ex ercise their discret i o n in th e buy in g of th e secu rity .

O n e very gen eral point w h ich I th in k w o u ld b e of im m en se serv ice to A lb ertan s if it w ere ad o p ted b y th e d ep artm en t is a req u irem en t th at in g en eral all co n tracts of a fo rm al natu re — I su p p o se you’ d h av e to en u m erate th em , but in su ran ce is c e r tain ly o n e su ch th in g — on im portant m atters b e in o rd in ary l a n g u ag e. It w as first tried in respect of in su ran ce p o licies, I b eliev e, in M assach u setts m ay b e 1 0 or 1 5 y ears a g o . S in ce th en it’s sp read to a num ber of th e U n ited S ta te s.

T hey all said it couldn’ t be d o n e. T hey all said — by "th e y " I m ean th e com pan i e s — that it w as necessary to hav e th is co m p licated lan g u ag e in in su ran ce p olicies b ecau se th ey w ere co m p licated co n cep ts an d ab so lu te a ccu racy w as essen tial an d that if you tried to put it in o rd in ary lan g u ag e, ev ery th in g w o u ld b eco m e v ague an d there’ d b e a n ev er-en d in g set of la w su its. E x actly th e opposite h as b een th e case. P eo p le can actu ally tu rn over th e b ack and read th e fin e print in th e contract an d u n derstan d it.

It’ s led to far few er m istak es, far few er m i s a p p reh en sio n s, than existed b efo re an d h as reduced th e num ber of arg u m en ts in a court of law an d m ade th e co n stru ctio n of th ese d o cu m en ts sim p ler. It w ould ap p ly to b ills of sale, g u aran te es, th e very co n tracts I w as talk in g ab o u t earlier, for ex am p le fa rm im p lem en ts. If th e m inister brought in o rd in ary -lan g u ag e legisl a t i o n lik e th a t, he w ould be rem em b ered fo r th at alo n e all h is d ay s in th is L eg islatu re an d b eyond a s b eing a b en efacto r to th e public of A lb erta.

It’s not difficult to co m e up w ith a p reced en t eith er, becau se it’s ex isted in so m e other ju risd ictio n s. W ith th at, I w ill let o th er people h av e an o th er g o . M R . D E P U T Y C H A IR M A N : T he h o n . M inister of C o n su m er an d C orporate A ffairs. M R . A N D E R S O N : M r. C h airm an , w ith respect to th e an sw ers to th e q u estio n s v ario u s m em b ers hav e raised , first of all let m e say to th o se m em b ers w ho’ ve been so kind a s to co n g ratu late m e on m y ap p o in tm en t or th e d ep artm en t on its w o rk , th an k y o u .

W e ap p reciate that en co u rag em en t, and I lo o k fo rw ard to w o rk in g w ith a ll m em b ers as w e g o th ro u g h th is term of o ffice to g e th e r. M r. C h airm an , th e g reatest p ro b lem I alw a y s have in estim a t e s is not m ak in g co m m en ts on m y estim ates or even an sw eri n g q u estio n s on th em ; it’ s read in g th e w ritin g th at I h av e tak en th ro u g h o u t th e ev en in g an d th erefo re b ein g ab le to recall all of th e q u estio n s raised .

S o if th ere are q uestions th at are no t an sw ered , if m em b ers w an t fuller ex p lan atio n s, I’ ll be p leased to p rep are that fo r th em to m ake sure those an sw ers are receiv ed an d to fu lfill th at o b ligation to th is H o u se. In try in g to g o through th e sp ecific areas, th e M em ber fo r E d m o n to n -S trath co n a raised a large num ber of q u estio n s, I’ m su re not all of w h ich I w ill be ab le to an sw er th is ev en in g or th at I h av e w ritten d ow n in th eir im p o rtan t w ay , but I w ill m ake an attem p t at so m e of th o se.

F irst of a ll, m y th an k s for h is c o m m ent th at th e d epartm ent’ s estim ate is m o n ey w ell spent. I a p preciate th e su p p o rt on th a t. T h e U nfair T rade P ractices A ct, th e hon. m em ber in d ica ted , sh o u ld cover a broader range of issu es, p ro b lem s, d ifficu lties faced b y th e co n su m er.

T hat m ay b e an area w e co u ld ta k e u n d er co n sid eratio n , th o u g h I w o u ld in d icate to th e m em ber th at in so m e of th e area s he o u tlin ed , p articularly w ith respect to secu r i t y salesm en , at least sto ck b ro k ers, th ere are other a re a s of l e g islatio n th at g o v ern th o se. T here certainly are som e distinct a r eas th at w e have to consider fu rth er. F in an cial plan n ers is a n ex am p le of th a t, ad v iso rs an d so o n .

W e have a task fo rce u n d er th e ch airm an sh ip of M ered ith D egroat in C alg ary that’ s n o w fo llo w in g on th e C ashion report reco m m en d atio n s, lo o k in g at h o w w e m ight estab lish so m e criteria so that citizen s k now w h o they’ re g o in g to , w h at q u alificatio n s th ey h av e, an d in d eed w h at th eir sp ecial in terests are on that. I look fo rw ard in th e fu tu re to d ealin g fu rth er w ith that particular q u estio n . T h e m em b er b o th in his latter rem ark s an d in th e earlier o n es d ealt w ith th e area of clear co n tracts.

I su p p o se I m ight tie th at in to th e plain lan g u ag e su g g estio n , w h ich I’ m pleased to se e co m e fro m a gen tlem an of that particular o ccu p atio n al b ack- g ro u n d w h o h as trad itio n ally m ade m o n ey occu p atio n ally fro m not h av in g th o se th in g s in plain lan g u ag e, and say that I su p p o rt th at co n cep t an d b elieve that w e should m ove in that d irectio n .

In fact, our law s have g en erally thro u g h o u t so ciety b eco m e to o co m p licated , to o in co m p reh en sib le, an d not clear en o u g h fo r o u r citizen s to grab hold of an d read in order fo r th em to u n d erstan d th eir rig h ts an d th o se law s that protect th em . S o I look fo rw ard to in fact m ak in g so m e m o v es in th at area in th is term of o ffic e . T h e m em b er allu d ed to v ario u s p ieces of legislation w h ich h e h as in tro d u ced . I’ v e had a quick rev iew of m ost of th o se , I b eliev e. I w ouldn’t ag ree w ith all of th em .

T here are so m e area s, th o u g h , th at I th in k have so m e co n sid erab le m erit, an d I lo o k fo rw ard to th e d iscussion in th e H o u se w ith respect to th o se or d ealin g w ith th em in so m e other w ay . H e a lso dealt w ith th e right to in fo rm atio n .

A n d w h ile he in th e co n tex t of th e rem ark s seem ed to be im p ly in g a m o re g e n eral rig h t, I w o u ld ag ree that there are areas w h ere w e h av e to en su re that th e co n su m er d o es have access to th e in fo rm atio n req u ired to m ak e th e d ecisio n s that he or sh e has to m ak e an d to d o so in th e face of th e fu llest kno w led g e p o ssib le. T he S ecu rities C o m m issio n h as m ade som e m o v es in th at d irectio n th ro u g h regulation in recent m o n th s. I look fo rw ard , in th e c o n tex t of th e C ash io n rep o rt, to ex p lo rin g that area fu rth er.

T he F ran ch ises A ct w as m entioned by sev eral m em b ers of th e A ssem b ly . T hat is under current rev iew , an d I b elieve that’ s th e w ay it sh o u ld b e : under rev iew an d co n sid erin g ch an g es th a t m ight fu rth er pro tect in d iv id u als, th o u g h it’ s a to u ch y b alan c e. W e h av e to rem em b er that it is a contract betw een a p u rch asin g g ro u p a n d an in d iv id u al. I m ight a s w ell in th e context of th is d eal w ith th e M em b er fo r E d m o n to n -M ead o w lark ’s co m m en ts w ith respect to C C o rp a n d R ed R o o ster.

T h e departm ent had th ro u g h o u t th e last co u -

Ju n e 20, 1 9 8 9 A L B E R T A H A N S A R D 4 2 9 ple of y ears n egotiated w ith th at particular org an izatio n an d w ith th o se fran ch ise h o ld ers; receiv ed , in fa ct, th e benefit of allo w in g th em greater tim e in order to co n sid er th e co n tract an d m ak in g su re that th ey did liv e w ith in th e Act. That, I b eliev e, w as helpf u l to m ost of th em . H o w ev er, it is a n area that’ s still tro u b leso m e to th o se particular in d iv id u als an d one w h ich I'm su re w ill be dealt w ith in th e context of th e rev iew of th e F ran ch ises Act.

B ut w ith in th e m an d ate of th e d ep artm en t I b e liev e w e have ex plored p retty w ell to th e fu llest extent p o ssib le. M o v in g on fu rth er to th e co m m en ts of the M em ber fo r E d m o n to n -M ead o w lark , he asked fo r a report on th e reco m m en d a t i o n s of th e C ashion report. I’ ve dealt w ith so m e of that. T o b riefly deal w ith that fu rth e r: w e h av e th e tw o task fo rces un d er w ay , a s in d icated in m y op en in g co m m en ts, both on fin an cial p lan n ers an d w ith respect to consum er ed u catio n .

W e are hopi n g fo r reports fro m th o se co m m ittees as th ey m o v e alo n g , an d I expect th em to play an im portant ro le in fu tu re leg islatio n . I h ope to w ith in a sh o rt period of tim e in tro d u ce so m e fu rth er d raft leg islatio n for public discussion on a num ber of elem en ts in clu d ed in th e C ashion rep o rt. I m ight say th at I a g ree , a g a in , w ith th e need for d isclo su re th at w as in d icated th e re . T h e secu rities a re a .

W e h av e an sw ered to a fair d eg ree in th e secu rities am en d m en t A ct ch an g es in tro d u ced in the L eg islatu re, w h ich w e w ill d eb ate in due course a n d w h ich has been allu d ed to . W e h av e tak en a num ber of step s fro m th e S ecu rities C o m ission’ s perspective w ith regard to sp ecific reco m m en d atio n s in th at rep o rt. W ithout sp en d in g a g o o d hour or so on th a t, that’ s a brief o v erv iew .

B ut there’ s no qu estio n th at as w e p r o ceed th ro u g h th is session an d o th ers of th e L eg islatu re, th e m em ber w ill see fu rth er p ro g ress w ith respect to th at ex cellen t report w h ich h as sh o w n lead ersh ip th ro u g h o u t th e co u n try . T he m em ber ask ed sp ecific q u estio n s w ith respect to c ertain bu d g et allo catio n s in th e su p p ly an d serv ices a re a .

H e m ay h av e m issed m y o p en in g co m m en ts w h ere I in d icated th at th ere is in fact a request here for so m e $ 1 .7 m illio n , w h ich are in clu d ed p rim arily in th o se v o tes, that is a net b u d g etin g issu e. W e w ere b y th e F in an cial A d m in istratio n A ct req u ired to return to so m e of th e asso ciatio n s that are clien ts part of fees that are ra ise d . T h e d o llars fro m th o se fe es h av e g o n e in to th e T reasu ry .

W e are retu rn in g th o se fro m th is departm ent’ s allo catio n ; c o n s e q u en tly , n o effect on ex p en d itu res of th e p ro v in ce, bu t th ey d o en d up in our allo catio n . T hat’ s tru e w ith at least tw o out of th e th ree v o tes th e m em ber m en tio n ed . I b elieve th e other one w as w ith respect to th e area w h ere w e h av e increased consum er ed u catio n sp en d in g , w h ich w as a n other area he ask ed fo r in fo rm atio n o n . M r.

C h airm an , I w o u ld in d icate th at w e hav e tak en so m e very firm step s to en co u rag e co n su m er education in th e p ro v in ce. H e ask ed for m y evaluat i o n . I w o u ld say th at y es, by a n d large I b eliev e th ey a re q u ite effectiv e.

T he p rev io u s m in ister, w h o m I w o u ld th an k an d c o n g ratu late fo r leav in g m e th e legacy she d id , m o v ed quite firm ly to establish co n tacts w ith the v o lunteer o rg an izatio n s to in itiate education that’ s ac tiv e, that’ s pro activ e in that respect th ro u g h th o se o rg an izatio n s; to establish consum er co rn ers, of w h ich th ere are ab o u t 20 0 in th e province n o w , w h ere c o n su m ers w ill see th e in form ation th at could b e u sefu l to th em in area s th ey w o u ld norm ally g o to . L ib raries are th e prim e ex am p le.

T here is a series of other ed u catio n al m o v es that are b o th p ro activ e an d ed u catio n al in th eir fo rm , together w ith e d u c a tio n al b o d ies an d o thers w h ich I believ e are p ro v in g to be q u ite effectiv e. T he p rim ary v eh icle, th o u g h , for th e fu tu re in ed u cat i o n in m y opinion is th ro u g h affiliatio n s w ith other o rg an iza- tio n s so that w e can reach m o re p eo p le, so that th e ed u catio n can tak e place th ere.

T hat in clu d es ev ery th in g fro m nativ e frien d s h i p cen tres w h ere in d iv id u als m ay require a certain k in d of ed u catio n , certain kind of m aterial w ritten in th e fo rm a n d th e ty p e that th ey can und erstan d an d that th ey can relate to in te rm s of th e context of th eir o w n life-sty le, on thro u g h to o rg an izat i o n s in th e tw o m ajor cities. M r. C h airm an , th e M em ber for C alg ary -M illican raised th e point of v o lu n teers, an d the V olunteer In co rp o ratio n s A ct w a s raised b y a couple of other m em b ers.

H e didn’ t sp ecifically d eal w ith that o n e. I m ight say in answ er to so m e of th o se q u estio n s th at th ere is again a task fo rce that’s been struck to deal w ith th e co n cern s an d issu es raised in th at V o lu n teer In co rp o ratio n s Act. W hether or not it’ s an A ct that w ill be rein tro d u ced in th is L e g islatu re in so m eth in g ap p ro ach in g its current fo rm I haven’ t m ad e a d eterm in atio n o n yet an d w ill aw ait th e resu lts of th at p articular rep o rt, w h ich I expect th is fa ll, b efore m ak in g th at d eterm in atio n .

In an y case, I ap p reciate th e issu es raised b y th e M em b er fo r E dm o n to n -S trath co n a in that respect an d w ill lo o k to w ard s d ealin g w ith th em in that A ct or in so m e other w a y . C alg ary -M illican also d ealt w ith th e issu e of junior cap ital p o o ls, a to p ic w h ich th e M em b er fo r C alg ary -B u ffalo ad d ressed a s w ell. I m ight say that there have n o w been a b o u t 370 junior cap ital p o o l co m p an ies that are reg istered w ith th e sto ck ex ch an g e.

T w o h undred of th o se have co m p leted their m ajor p u r ch ase, th eir m ajor tran sactio n , w h ich I th in k is not at all a b ad record w ith respect to co m p an ies raisin g m oney on th e m ark et in th at regard an d th en g ettin g th eir start th ere. T he M em b er fo r C alg ary -B u ffalo referred to th em in th e sam e breath a s blin d p o o ls. In fa ct, th ere are so m e su b stan tial d ifferen ces. T h e juni o r cap ital po o ls are regulated to a m uch greater extent b y th e sto ck ex ch an g e, an d th ey are ex change co m p an ies.

I w o u ld ag ree th at w e h av e to co n tin u e to w atch th o se circu m stan ces, b u t it is u n iq u e a n d in n o v ativ e a n d , I th in k , to th is point at least a h elp fu l w ay in w h ich co m p an ies just try in g to get a start in th is ev o lv in g sto ck m arket in A lb erta h av e been ab le to tak e ad v an t a g e of th at v eh icle. M r. C h airm an , th e M em b er for E d m o n to n -C en tre ask ed ab o u t th e L an d lo rd an d T enant A c t. T he L an d lo rd an d T en an t A ct is under activ e rev iew . T he task fo rce he m entioned is c a r ry in g ou t its d elib eratio n s.

I’ ve su g g ested to th em th at in ad d it i o n to th e m ech an ism s they’ d no rm ally u se for in p u t, th ey m ay w ish to in fact g o in to areas of cities an d to w n s w h ere they’ re m eetin g — a n d they’ re m eeting around th e p ro v in ce — an d a c tiv ely so licit o p in io n s fro m th o se ten an ts, or for th at m atter th o se lan d lo rd s, w h o m ay not oth erw ise g iv e th e m , becau se I th in k it’ s im p o rtan t w e get th e o p inions ab o u t th at leg islatio n n o t o n ly fro m in d iv id u als w h o are ab le to m ake elo q u en t p resen tat i o n s or to w rite lu cid b riefs but also fro m th o se w h o are m o re q u ietly liv in g in our so ciety an d m ay require p ro tectio n .

A g a in , I’ m lo o k in g fo rw ard to that report th is fa ll, an d h o p efu lly it w ill assist in our d elib eratio n s w ith respect to w h eth er or not th at A ct sh o u ld be su b stan tially ch an g ed ; if so , in w h at w a y . T h e m em ber ask ed ab o u t prescription d ru g s. T hat is really w ith in fed eral jurisdiction a n d under th e fed eral d ru g rev iew b o ard . A s a co n su m er of th o se fro m tim e to tim e, I’ m su re w e all w o u ld lik e th em to b e low er in price, but that is w ith in th e fed eral resp o n sib ility , an d at th e m om ent I w ill leav e th at th e re .

I w asn’ t clear on th e h o n . m em ber’ s point w ith resp ect to A ID S a n d th e fu n eral in d u stry . I’ d be h ap p y to have fu rth er i n fo rm atio n fro m him on th at to p ic if he w an ted to g iv e th at to m e . T he M em ber fo r Innisfail m ad e so m e excellent co m m en ts

430 A L B E R T A H A N S A R D Ju n e 20, 1 9 8 9 an d also ask ed ab o u t in creases in th e regional ad m in istratio n b u d g et. That’ s really as a result of m erit in creases an d r e c l a s sificatio n s b ecause of th e reo rg an izatio n that’ s tak en p lace a c tiv ely in the departm ent over th e past w h ile. I m ight m en tio n th at w h ile th at p articular seg m en t d o es seem to hav e a very s i g nificant in crease — in fact, did have a sig n ifican t in crease — that’ s o ffset g en erally in th e m an p o w er allo catio n s of th e dep artm e n t , an d w h ile our p ro g ram s hav e in creased , th e m an p o w er is q u ite a m inor

part co m p arativ ely . A g ain I g o back to th e b asis of th e estim ate req u ests: o n ly 1 .2 percent of th o se req u ests a re d ep artm en tal su p p o rt serv ices. T he rem ain d er — 17.1, I b eliev e — are d irect serv ices to th e p u b lic, w h ich I th in k sp eak s to th e g o o d m anagem ent of th e dep artm en t by th e fo rm er m inister an d b y th e o fficials w h o are resp o n sib le. T h e M em ber fo r S m o k y R iv e r, M r. C h airm an , ask ed h o w I w o u ld d eal w ith th e ch an g in g tim es. I ap p reciate th at q u estio n .

It’ s o n e I’ ve tried to th in k of sin ce tak in g th is p o rtfo lio so m e w eek s ag o . T here are really , I th in k , a co u p le of m ajo r v eh icles fo r d o in g that. F irst of a ll, I w o u ld u n d erlin e ag ain th at w e can- not d o that a lo n e. W e hav e to d o th at here in p artn ersh ip w ith th e v o lunteer o rg an izatio n s an d w ith th e in d u stry g ro u p s. W e h av e to m ake sure th e public’ s p ro tected , but th e activ e pro tecti n g in g or th e activ e in fo rm atio n an d regulation th at h as to ta k e p lace m ust be a p artn ersh ip .

W ith o u t th at I th in k w e could w e ll b e ov erw h elm ed b y th e v ariety of n eed s that are th ere in th e m ark etp lace. In a d d itio n , a m ajor veh icle h as to b e a k n o w led g eab le c o n su m er w ith p lain , fair disclo su re of in fo rm atio n . T hat’ s g o in g to ta k e u s a lot of w o rk , to try an d k eep up w ith th e need for m aki n g su re th at hap p en s, but I believe th at, to o , is an o th er m ajo r v eh icle to k eep in g in fro n t of th e p ro b lem s.

T h en , of co u rse, w e h av e to m ak e su re that our reg u latio n s an d o ur A cts are c o g nizant of th at rapid ch an g e th at I sp o k e of in m y o p en in g rem ark s. T hro u g h th e secu rities am en d m en t A c t, th ro u g h th e rearran g in g of th e S ecu rities C o m m issio n carried out b y th e f o m er m in ister, I b elieve that’ s w ell on th e w ay , th o u g h w e h av e to alw ay s b e dilig en t in lo o k in g at that ch an g e a n d k n o w in g th at th is is not a stagnant eco n o m y , th is is not a stag n an t atm o sp h ere.

T h is is a v ital, ex citin g , in terestin g , an d ch allen g in g tim e in th e h isto ry of our p ro v in ce, an d w e hav e to d eal w ith that. M r. C h airm an , th e issu e of in su ran ce ad ju sters w as also d ealt w ith by th e m em ber an d an o th er m em ber w h o sp o k e later, th e M em ber fo r B o w V alley . W e h av e recen tly estab lish ed th e I n su ran ce C o u n cil, w h ich w e h o p e w ill help to reg u late m o re clo sely , thro u g h th e in d u stry itself, th e activ ities th a t are ta k in g place th e re, a n d that sh o u ld be h elp fu l.

I w o u ld m en tio n a s w ell th at the fed eral co m b in es area h as looked at a n d is lo o k in g at so m e of th e p ro b lem s w h ich th e m em ber allu d ed to , an d h o p e fu lly th at w ill assist w ith respect to co n cern s th at are th e re . I’ d b e in terested in a n y fu rth er d etails or in fo rm atio n th at th e m e m ber m ight h av e. I dealt w ith so m e of th e co n cern s raised by th e M em b er fo r C alg ary -B u ffalo . H o w ev er, he talk ed ex ten siv ely ab o u t th e S to ck E x ch an g e an d ab o u t th e reputation of it.

L et’ s be c le a r: o u r S to ck E x ch an g e is an ev o lv in g ex ch an g e th at certain ly h a s not had th e ex p erien ce, th e v o lu m e, or th e am o u n t of tim e th at T o ro n to has h ad or N ew Y ork h as h ad , or fo r th at m atter th e Q u eb ec ex ch an g e. B ut I believe th e very d efin ite step s th at h av e been tak en over recent y ears put our S to ck E x ch an g e in th e sam e leag u e a s an y other w ith respect to its ab ility to assu re a n in v e sto r, a sm all in v esto r in p articu lar, that it’ s a fair a n d h o n est m ark etp lace.

I w o u ld just un d erlin e th e reo rg an izatio n of th e ex ch an g e th at to o k place an d th e A ct th at w as in tro d u ced w ith respect to th a t; th e v ario u s m o v es th at th e ex ch an g e h as m ad e sin ce th at point to tig h ten up in areas, so m e of w h ich h av e b een u sed in a national lead ersh ip role reg ard in g m u tu al fu n d s a n d o th e rs; a n d th e secu rities am en d m en t A ct w h ich w e in tro d u ced th e other d ay . I