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March

31, 2014

RESOURCE COMMITTEE

Pursuant to

Standing Order 68, Lisa Dempster, MHA for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair,

substitutes for Christopher Mitchelmore, MHA for The Straits White Bay North.

Pursuant to

Standing Order 68, Kevin Pollard, MHA for Baie Verte Springdale, substitutes

for Keith Russell, MHA for Lake Melville.

The Committee met

at 9:00 a.m. in the Assembly Chamber

MR. BRAZIL:

Ladies and gentlemen, I want to welcome

everybody as we start the 2014-2015 Budget Estimates for Advanced Education and

Skills.

I want to welcome

the minister, his officials, and members of the Committee.

We will get an opportunity in a minute to actually do formal

acknowledgements of who is here.

I do ask: Can you

be cognizant of this when you do speak?

Obviously, Minister, emphasis will be on yourself and Committee members,

but if one of your officials is answering a question that they identify

themselves so the Broadcast Centre can identify the proper person who is

speaking as part of that.

One of the

housekeeping items first we will start with is that I am going to ask Elizabeth

to ask for a nomination to select a Chair.

CLERK (Ms Murphy):

Is there a nomination for Chair of the Committee?

MR. CROSS:

I nominate Mr. Brazil as Chair.

MS PERRY:

Seconded.

CLERK:

It is moved and seconded that Mr. Brazil be elected Chair.

All those in

favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CLERK:

Contra.

Carried.

On motion of Mr.

Cross, Mr. Brazil was elected Chair.

CHAIR (Brazil)

Okay. Thank you.

We will move right

into doing introductions. I do ask,

not only members of the Committee but also any staff they may have with them,

also introduce themselves as we go through.

If you could

mention, to the MHA, which district you are for also and the title of any staff

members.

We will start with

you, Sir.

MR. GEORGE:

Bradley George, Researcher, Official Opposition Office.

MS DEMPSTER:

Lisa Dempster, MHA for Cartwright

L'Anse au Clair.

Good morning.

MR. SLADE:

Sam Slade, MHA for Carbonear Harbour Grace District.

MS MICHAEL:

Lorraine Michael, MHA for Signal Hill

Quidi Vidi.

MS WILLIAMS:

Susan Williams, Researcher, NDP Office.

MR. CROSS:

Eli Cross, MHA for Bonavista North.

MR. POLLARD:

Kevin Pollard, MHA for Baie Verte

Springdale.

MS PERRY:

Tracey Perry, MHA for Fortune Bay

Cape La Hune.

CHAIR:

Now we will start with the minister.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Kevin O'Brien, Minister of Advanced

Education and Skills, MHA for the District of Gander.

MS COMPANION:

Lori Anne Companion, Deputy Minister of Advanced Education and Skills.

MR. PIKE:

David Pike, Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services.

MR. HANLON:

Brendan Hanlon, Departmental Controller, Advanced Education and Skills.

MR. CORNECT:

Tony Cornect, Parliamentary Secretary

to the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills, MHA for Port au Port.

MS TILLEY:

Jean Tilley, ADM, Community and Social Development, Advanced Education and

Skills.

MS WHEATON:

Roxie Wheaton, ADM, Service Delivery.

MR. HOGAN:

Dennis Hogan, Assistant Deputy Minister for Workforce Development and

Immigration.

MR. TOMPKINS:

John Tompkins, Communications.

MS LINDAHL:

Lisa Lindahl, Executive Assistant to Minister O'Brien.

CHAIR:

Welcome to everybody.

There is one other

piece of housekeeping that we need to do.

I need a motion to accept the minutes of May 8, 2013, Resource Committee

through the Estimates of Advanced Education and Skills.

Can I have a

motion to adopt last year's minutes, please?

MS PERRY:

So moved.

CHAIR:

So moved, Ms Perry.

A seconder?

MR. CROSS:

Seconded.

CHAIR:

Seconded, Mr. Cross.

All those in

favour signify by saying aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those opposed, nay' .

Motion carried.

On motion, minutes

adopted as circulated.

CHAIR:

We will move right in.

I will just give you a little outline of the process I will be using.

We will start with the Opposition, and we will give you ten to twelve

minutes so that we can move around.

If I think you are getting close to the end of a particular

section that we are

on, and we will start with

section 1.1.01, and you only have a question or two

left, another minute or two, I will ask you that, and if you want to continue to

finish that

section so you can keep your thoughts flowing we will do that.

Then we will move on to the Third Party as part of that process.

We will take a

break at around 10:30 for ten minutes or so just to let people stretch their

feet, or if you have to go to the washroom or make a quick call as part of that.

As we go through, I do ask that you stick specifically to the budget

lines here. As you know, the

Estimates are about the financial aspects of the Budget and not policy related

to those.

There are times

when the minister has the privilege if he wants to explain a little bit more

about how that relates to the Estimates, to some policies, but that is entirely

up to him. It has been very

co-operative over the years with people sticking to the budget lines and there

is a bit of leeway there based on that principle but we ask that you stick to

the actual dollar figures here when it comes to the Estimates.

I am going to

start with Ms Dempster.

MS DEMPSTER:

It is my first time

CHAIR:

Sorry, I must apologize.

Yes, my first one this year.

Opening remarks,

normally we start with the minister responsible.

Ten or twelve

hours later of doing this, I will be going right away, Minister, it is yours.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It is certainly a

pleasure to be here this morning. I

just wanted to highlight a couple of things in regard to the department over the

last year and going forward into 2014-2015.

As everybody knows, the Department of Advanced Education and Skills

really touches the lives of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians on many levels, and

essentially this department is about helping people.

This was

highlighted most recently with Maplewood Apartments and how we reacted to the

fire there, along with the issue over in Corner Brook where we had some

residents who were displaced from an apartment building, an emergency-type

basis. Also, with Cliffs Natural

Resources when they announced the idling mine and how my department and staff

reacted to that issue.

The department

budget of Advanced Education and Skills is responsible for $917 million of the

provincial Budget, which is about 11.5 per cent of the entire Budget.

We are working to ensure all our programs and services are helping people

secure independence and employment along with prosperity, and also to support

our ongoing efforts in poverty reduction, literacy, and inclusion.

We have made

enormous strides going forward in my department over the past year.

Just to highlight a couple, the development of a new consistent

employment and training assessment tool for everyone who avails of our program.

We have developed that. We

have consolidated the four-way subsidy program applications into one to better

meet the needs of the people of the Province; the recent announcement on student

employment programs and applications being made more effective and efficient for

students and employers.

The new case

management system which provides an online service for employers and community

agencies is nearing completion, which will see three systems going into one.

The department has also recently implemented a reorganizational

structure. One of the most

significant additions to this new organizational structure is the quality

assurance and service improvement division which is now being created.

That will monitor and measure quality and identify areas regarding

targeted attention.

I also want to,

for the record, say that the change is for the better, and it also will happen

without any layoffs at all. As a

matter of fact, my staff and I drilled deep into the reorganizational process to

make sure the impact to our staff was minimal, in that we made sure that staff

would not have to move from one area to another of the Province, which is

sometimes not available to the particular employee.

Through the process of the reorganization we made sure our staff was well

taken care of. Also, I want to

highlight, the policy staff and resources will now be shared across all

divisions making the department more nimble and responsible in the development

and delivery of the programs and services.

I want to

highlight post-secondary education.

Over the past year 12,000 students and youth benefitted from our employment

programs, and 20,000 students are supported through the ongoing tuition freeze.

Budget 2014 commits about $14.7 million over two years to eliminate

provincial student loans with a projected investment of approximately $50.6

million over five years, and approximately 7,000 students annually are expected

to receive the upfront grant assistance.

Also, the

provincial government has further demonstrated its commitment to reducing

student debt by investing an additional $5.1 million this year to continue the

tuition freeze for students attending Memorial University and the College of the

North Atlantic. Since 2005, we have

invested more than $282 million in tuition freeze, making Newfoundland and

Labrador students the envy of the rest of Canada.

Under the

apprenticeship program, this year we are continuing our Journeyperson Mentorship

Program and also another $1.1 million, supported with about $6.6 million in

federal funding has been allocated to continue the Apprenticeship Wage Subsidy

program.

Under Memorial and

CAN, the government is helping post-secondary institutions prepare students for

work with a $1.5 million investment for the College of the North Atlantic to

support high demand, high priority programs, and $1.9 million to increase base

funding at the fishery and Marine Institute to continue the expansion of

educational programs, research, and student services.

We are also providing $1.1 million to continue the extension of the

Faculty of Engineering and Applied Science at Memorial University in priority

areas of ocean, arctic, and offshore energy.

Budget 2014 also

provides over $19 million in infrastructure funding for Memorial University.

It includes $5 million to support continued modernization of the

university's older student residence and $2.6 million for ongoing modernization

of science labs. Government is

providing $4 million for infrastructure at the College of the North Atlantic,

including $1.5 million for a medical sciences lab at Grand Falls-Windsor campus,

and $1.7 million for industrial shop modernization at college campuses.

Since 2004, the government has invested $2.7 million in Memorial and

another $742 million in the College of the North Atlantic.

Supporting poverty

reduction; there is approximately $170 million in Budget 2014, which means a

total investment in the Poverty Reduction Strategy since 2006 has surpassed $1

billion. The historic investment

includes $4.8 million to raise the basic rate for people receiving Income

Support by 5 per cent, beginning July 1.

This projected investment will be $32.3 million over the following five

years.

Persons with

disabilities; Budget 2014 also includes $12.6 million to advance inclusion and

support employment opportunities for persons with disabilities.

inclusion grants for 2014. A person

can avail of a $25,000 grant to upgrade a vehicle in regard to making it more

accessible, improving the lives of people with disabilities; along with a

$25,000 maximum grant for not-for-profit and community-based organizations to

Mr. Chair, the

Department of Advanced Education and Skills, as I said in my opening remarks,

touches the lives of people right across this Province, day in and day out.

I want to thank all the staff right across Newfoundland and Labrador who

work with my department in providing that service because they spend a lot of

hours in regard to delivering those programs to the people, and the people who

need it the most, and I thank them for that.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Minister.

Ms Dempster,

before you start, I will just outline that we will start with subhead 1.1.01.

If you have no questions on that, you can move on to the next subsequent

subhead and go from there.

We will start with

you, Ms Dempster.

MS DEMPSTER:

I thank the minister for those

comments. It is my first time, so

if I stray I am not really being defiant.

It might be part of a learning process.

Anyway, we will go through this.

My first question

is from the very first page under Gross Expenditure, starting from there.

Advanced Studies received $90 million less than last year.

Can you just explain what was cut from the Budget?

MR. O'BRIEN:

The student residences are now on the

capital side. That is a decrease

because the investment on the capital side has now been completed.

The residences down at Memorial University have been completed.

The residence over at Grenfell College is now completed.

So that reflects we do not need that capital investment anymore, so we

are down to normal levels.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, thank you.

Overall, $17

million was cut from the AES budget, can you just discuss that?

MR. O'BRIEN:

You are going to have to follow the

where are you again?

MS DEMPSTER:

I am still under Gross Expenditure.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I am usually working off the 1.1.

MS DEMPSTER:

Pardon?

CHAIR:

I think now she has gone to 1.2.01.

MS DEMPSTER:

No, I am not there yet.

This is just a couple of questions I had before I started.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Okay.

CHAIR:

Okay.

Well, if you happen to know under which section, it will make it a little

easier for the minister to follow and his officials also.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

You want me to

move on to the all right, okay.

CHAIR:

No, you can follow that trend, as long

the minister is aware of where it is (inaudible) expedite it and get a better

understanding.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I can follow it; that is all.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Can you outline

for us how the staff complement would change over the next year?

Are there any positions that are being cut from Budget 2014?

MR. O'BRIEN:

When you are talking about the

reorganization of the department?

There are no layoffs whatsoever. As

a matter of fact, there will be thirty-four new jobs created over the next year.

There are a number of them that will be here in St. John's, the rest of

them will be across the different regions, depending on what we would require.

We have 710 people right now.

We have a couple of vacancies that are going to competition pretty soon,

along with the thirty-four that will be created, will give us a total of 753

employees across Newfoundland and Labrador.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I ask that, one

position that I was aware of was the regional manager in Goose Bay is being cut,

but I guess if someone is retiring and you are not filling, that is not

considered a

MR. O'BRIEN:

Well, we are going down to two regions,

so we only need two regional directors now.

That particular person in Goose Bay could very well apply to be the

regional director for the Western Region, but I think that person, as you just

referenced, is going to retire; but if the person did not retire, that person

would stay on staff at the same pay

schedule that he is on today.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

So there are some

people who are retiring and their positions probably not being filled?

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is a normal process anyway.

We have retirements all the time, especially having 753 employees in

Advanced Education and Skills. That

is just a normal process or whatnot.

I think the

overall restructure of the department will benefit the people of the Province

because it will be clearer to the persons requiring the service.

They can follow that process clearer now than ever before, plus we will

be more responsive to their needs.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, thank you.

I have just one

more generic question before we get into where I am supposed to be.

Where exactly will the offices be converted to employment centres?

MR. O'BRIEN:

To employment centres?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

All of them actually provide a certain

amount of employment services.

Stephenville will be an intake centre for Income Support.

Most of the calls will go into there.

If there is an

overload in regard to the system as a matter of fact, we are developing a new

phone system as well. We have a

consultant working with OCIO in regard to that.

That will identify the pressure areas to our phone system, but the phone

system would seek over and above the complement of employees out of Stephenville

on the intake centre. It will seek

the next employee we have who will have the skill to actually provide and give

advice to the client, and provide the service to the client right straight

across the Province. That is the

way we are becoming more nimble and more responsive to their needs.

In regard to

employment, pretty well every regional office in the Province will be providing

a certain amount of that service, along with the support that we would have here

in St. John's.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

The phone line sounds like it is moving like Service Canada.

If you call about EI you do not know where across the country they are

picking up the phone, sort of like that.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, but we want somebody to answer the

call as quickly as we possibly can.

When it comes to a call, it does not matter where the person is just as long as

they can actually be responsive and supportive of the person who is calling.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, thank you.

General

Administration, page 8.4 under 1.2, I am looking at Salaries.

It seems to be an example here where the budget numbers provided from

last year did not actually match the Estimates document for last year.

The 2013-2014 Estimates said there was $2.5 million in Salaries, not $2.3

million. I am just wondering about

the discrepancy there.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I do not know where you are looking.

Are you looking at 1.2.01.01?

MS DEMPSTER:

1.2.02.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Just a second now.

1.2.02

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

01?

MS DEMPSTER:

01, yes, sorry.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Okay.

We had budgeted $2,271,500 and the revised is $2,415,500.

MS DEMPSTER:

It did not match when we went back and

checked last year's Estimates.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I do not have last year's Estimates

with me.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, because I have a few questions

MR. O'BRIEN:

I am going to work off my page, right.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, I understand because I have a

few questions and we were kind of going back and forth comparing last year to

this year. Maybe that is something

we can follow up with?

MR. O'BRIEN:

We could, because in regard to the

Estimates last year, our budget was $2,271,500.

The revised is $2,415,500, which would reflect the negotiated collective

agreements for the public sector employees and the signing bonuses.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Moving on,

Transportation and Communications; again, the 2013-2014 Estimates document said

$208,000. I just had a question

around the discrepancy.

MR. O'BRIEN:

We have a budget of $188,800 and the revised says $188,800, and the $189,100 is

an increase because of the collective agreement and meal rates per diems.

I do not know what

you are working off, to be honest with you.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I am just looking at the budget right there under Transportation and

Communications $188,800 and then under Estimates $189,100.

That is where I was seeing a I just had a question.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, but you are going back a year.

MS DEMPSTER:

Pardon me?

MR. O'BRIEN:

When you are looking at those Estimates

in regard to the $189,000 or what is the number you just said?

MS DEMPSTER:

$208,000.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, you are gone back to the 2013-2014

Budget. We are here to do the

Estimates in regard to 2014-2015.

MS DEMPSTER:

When we pulled it out and looked it did

not match. That was why I had those

questions there. I am just looking

for clarification around the discrepancy.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Our budget is $188,800, the revised is

$188,800, and our estimate for this year, 2014-2015, is $189,100 which reflects

the collective bargaining agreement.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is what we spent, $188,800.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

It seems high to me. Can we

just talk about that for a minute?

Can you explain?

MR. O'BRIEN:

In regard to Transportation and

Communications?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Well, there is a fair bit of movement

in regard to 710 employees providing the service.

We have people who went into Wabush, taking that as an example.

That requires a number of staff to provide the service.

So there is a fair bit of movement for our staff right across the

Province. You are talking about

Newfoundland and Labrador and the geographic mass that we have.

It requires a fair bit on the road for various staff to provide that

service and outreach to various remote communities.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

It is pretty much the travel of the staff there.

Under Purchased

Services, again looking at the Estimates 2013-2014, it said $3.19 million, and a

discrepancy there of $50,000.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Our budget in Purchased Services is

$3,248,200, we spent $3,768,700.

The reason behind that is the lease cost for a number of our AES offices were

charged to other activities, such as the LMDA.

We had to extend a six-month extension to the federal computer system,

and that federal system is now being replaced by a provincial system called

LAMPPS. A portion of the lease cost

will be charged to the LMDA program, commencing again in 2014-2015.

So it is just an appropriation there that we changed one of the other to

take care of the six-month extension as we developed our own program.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I asked the

question because, again, we are not getting it to match up with last year, and

that was a $50,000 discrepancy.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Just give me one second there, Lisa.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, certainly.

MR. O'BRIEN:

You are not finding our budget of

2013-2014 revised. You have

different numbers on your page, is that what is happening?

MS DEMPSTER:

That is what we were comparing it with,

was the Estimates document from last year.

We do not have the most current then to

MR. O'BRIEN:

The reorg was not done then.

The 2013-2014 funds now have been reallocated to match new structure.

We are working off this year's book, which would be different than last

year's book. That is all because of

the reorg.

MS DEMPSTER:

We really did not have the latest

numbers then to work with, did we?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Well, you should because you have your

Estimates documents.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

You have a copy of your Estimates

document there just show her the book that you have.

Yes, that is it.

OFFICIAL:

Are you working off this one?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, just show her.

OFFICIAL:

The Estimates from last year, the

revised and then the budget (inaudible).

OFFICIAL:

Oh, we have both.

There are discrepancies throughout, as you probably know.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, that is because of the

reallocation of funds due to the reorg.

MS DEMPSTER:

Under Purchased Services, can you just talk for a minute about what was

purchased last year and what will be purchased this year?

MR. O'BRIEN:

In regard to last year, as I just said,

we had to support a six month extension to the federal CSGC computer system and

then we had to support that for six months.

We had to take some of our provincial funds to support the LAMPPS system

but now we will go back into the LMDA program again commencing 2014-2015.

We have lease agreements, and the cost of that lease agreement is

$3,014,500. We have banking fees of

$120,000. We have printer-copy

charges of $84,300. That is all

under Purchased Services.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

The provincial

revenue, where did that come from?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Provincial revenue relates to

miscellaneous repayments of prior years' expenditures like trip advances,

standing travel advances, closing out petty cash, that kind of thing.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

CHAIR:

Ms. Dempster, do you have any other

questions on 1.2.02?

MS DEMPSTER:

No.

CHAIR:

Okay.

Then I will go to Ms Michael.

Ms Michael.

MS MICHAEL:

On that

section no, I think the

questions I was going to ask have been answered.

Although let's look at the Salaries.

It seems like $144,000 more was spent than estimated.

Is that a real one or is that part of the reorg?

MR. O'BRIEN:

No, that is part of the collective

agreement public sector pay out of the $1,400 signing bonus.

MS MICHAEL:

So we are going to see that a lot,

right?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Absolutely, yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, that is great.

The other question

was my question, so that is fine for that section.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Do you want me to

go on then?

CHAIR:

Yes you can, for the next twelve or

fifteen minutes.

MS MICHAEL:

Fine, okay.

I was not sure. I really was

not fully clear on that, so you are using time a bit.

Okay.

I would like to come back then, we just did 1.2.02.

Under 1.2.03, Grants and Subsidies, we see a fair increase there.

Could we have an explanation of that please, Minister?

That is 1.2.03.10, Grants and Subsidies.

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is up by $600,000.

The additional funding has been reallocated with the department for the

inclusion of vehicle retrofit grants.

That is the one I referenced in my opening remarks.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, right.

Okay.

I wonder under

this, because I think it is probably better to ask I will do line by line and

some general questions at the same time.

I think that makes it more sensible, doesn't it?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Sure, yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Could we have a few updates with regard

to the inclusion strategy for people with disabilities?

Could we have an update on the activities there, please?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

In regard to me becoming the minister back in October, we have placed a

focus in regard to the strategy of inclusion.

That is the reason you see that reallocation of the $600,000 to support

As well, I

mentioned, I think it was $12.6 million in regard to enabling people with

disabilities to avail of skilled training and certainly to avail of a job.

Our action plan is nearing completion now as well, so we should be able

to get that out over the next month or so.

Since I have been in the department I have met with a number of groups,

as you probably do know.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

It is a focus of mine, especially from

my past life as a pharmacist and having people with disabilities come to my

place of business. We have been

moving along with that. I think it

has been well received by the community.

We have appointed the new council too, as well, as you know.

They have been very supportive and very informative in regard to front

line needs of people with disabilities as well.

So it is a real group process.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

With the Opening Doors disability office, some of the cuts, have they

been reversed then from last year's Budget?

MR. O'BRIEN:

No, they have not been reversed, no

they have not. I think as well, we

are becoming more responsive to the needs of persons with disabilities.

It is not necessarily the number of jobs as how you react to the actual

request. I think we are moving

forward in the right direction. We

are more responsive, more nimble, and more supportive.

We have been listening to exactly what they require in trying to respond

to that requirement.

MS MICHAEL:

I wonder, minister, could we have not

now, if you do not have it, but afterwards the numbers of people who have been

helped by the Opening Doors Program and where it stands right now in terms of

numbers?

MR. O'BRIEN:

I will just give you a quick number, I

am pretty sure I have it here. I

think it is 470 or so people have been supported, if I remember right 490

individuals with disabilities in regard to funding to complete post-secondary

programs and work-based training.

Are you just

talking about Opening Doors only?

MS MICHAEL:

I was just talking about Opening Doors

in particular.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Okay, yes, we can get that number for

you.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I am sorry about that.

MS MICHAEL:

That is okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

I do not expect you to have all those

numbers right on your fingertips right there.

I wonder, with

regard to the Poverty Reduction Strategy, I think you probably do have I do

not know if you would call it a list, but I am sure you have identified what you

count as poverty reduction.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Absolutely.

MS MICHAEL:

Could we have a list of that?

MR. O'BRIEN:

We can give you a complete list.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, it is not a problem.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

That would be helpful.

Also, with regard

to Grants and Subsidies under 1.2.03, could we also have a list there of what

makes up the Grants and Subsidies?

MR. O'BRIEN:

You sure could.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

That is all my

questions on 1.2.03, Mr. Chair.

CHAIR:

You can go to the next section.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, great.

CHAIR:

You still have lots of time.

MS MICHAEL:

This is more a question of curiosity

than anything. Under 1.2.04, I note

that the Newfoundland and Labrador Student Loans Programs has been moved from

the Student Financial Services. I

am just wondering about the rationale for that, because it used to be under the

Advanced Studies: Student Financial Services.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, it is just to keep all our

financial services in one place.

MS MICHAEL:

That is what I thought it would have

been before, that it all would have been in one place, but now you have moved

out the student loans separately.

OFFICIAL:

That is just the financial portion.

The student loans are still with post-secondary.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, it is still there.

Student loans are still with post-secondary; it is just the financial

side is moved all in one place.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

That is it then

for 1.2.04. I do not have any more

questions there.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Ms Michael.

We will go back to

Ms Dempster, or Mr. Slade or whoever from the Opposition if you would like to

ask questions on those sections that you have not already covered.

MS DEMPSTER:

Thank you.

Before I start a

couple of the questions, I had the same questions here to ask looking for a list

of grants and subsidies. That will be provided to myself as well?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, absolutely.

MS DEMPSTER:

Thank you.

Page 8.4, under

1.2.03, Professional Services, I am just wondering what professional services

are being purchased the $195,000?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Funding is provided for evaluations in

the department's programs; $140,000 there.

The appeal board per diems are $30,000.

Consultants we used $25,000.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Under Purchased

Services, what services are being purchased there?

MR. O'BRIEN:

and disability related accommodation costs, $30,000; Stats Canada data

purchases, $45,000; printing costs, $42,000; and general purchases of another

$25,000.

MS DEMPSTER:

Did any of that money go to John

Noseworthy for his work?

MR. O'BRIEN:

For who?

MS DEMPSTER:

John Noseworthy.

MR. O'BRIEN:

No.

That was completed last year.

MS DEMPSTER:

Pardon me?

MR. O'BRIEN:

That was done last year.

MS DEMPSTER:

Before my time.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Before my time.

MS DEMPSTER:

All right, I was looking for a list of

the grants; I have that. Moving on

to page 8.5 under 1.2.04.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Subhead 1.2.04?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

The Grants and

Subsidies, is that just for the grants portion of the provincial loan?

It is a $328,000 increase there.

I am just wondering why.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I can break it down for you in regard

to grants and subsidies.

We had an

operating cost of $3,065,500. That

operating is done by one entity, I believe, for all of Canada.

The cost of funds in regard to interest was $500,000.

You had admin fees of $1.7 million.

You had disbursements of loans of $9,100,000 and then you had

disbursements of up-front grants of $12,300,000.

Then you had the revenue side which is in regard to collection of loans

is $20 million, and then principal debt repayments of $23 million, giving you a

total of $30 million.

MS DEMPSTER:

Thank you.

Again, the Revenue

Provincial, where does the come from, primarily?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Provincial revenue is a collection of

your loans.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, I thought you said that I am

not hearing completely. Maybe I

should have my ear bud in.

How many students

are in default of paying their loans right now?

MR. O'BRIEN:

In default we have about $71 million.

It would be hard to say how many students are involved in that $71

million under default, but I can try to get a number for you.

That is a pretty complicated number.

I can give you $71 million that is in default.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

We have brought in a number of programs

since 2009 or so in regard to supporting students who might have a problem in

regard to repayment of their loans: interest relief; we have balanced their

payments to suit their salaries, that kind of thing and whatnot, but collection

is still in default of $71 million.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

The Student Loan

Program, it looks like an increase there of $478,000.

I was just going to ask why the increase.

MR. O'BRIEN:

You are talking about the revenue?

MS DEMPSTER:

Under the Total; I am still on 1.2.04,

Student Loan Programs. Budget

$28,697,500 and then the Estimates $29,175,500.

If I did my math right, there is a $478,000 increase.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

That, again, is an

increase in revenue related to additional student loan collections.

It also reflects a decrease in forecasted collection revenue for

Newfoundland and Labrador Student Loan Corporation to decline in portfolio.

That is actually declining as we go forward, because where we are moving

our loans to grants.

MS DEMPSTER:

Just in time when my daughter starts

post-secondary.

Page 8.6, under

2.1.01

MS MICHAEL:

Mr. Chair, can I just ask one question

while we are on 1.2.04?

CHAIR:

Sure.

Afterwards I am going to come back and we are going to make a motion to

adopt. That is normally how we do

it and then we move on to the next one.

Ms Michael.

MS MICHAEL:

I am just wondering, Minister, with the

move that will be made on the provincial side from loans into grants, is there

going to be any thought given to forgiveness of outstanding debts as we move

into the loans program?

MR. O'BRIEN:

As I just referenced, we have done a

lot

MS MICHAEL:

I mean into the grant program.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, absolutely.

We have done a lot

over the last number of years with regard to supporting our students who have

graduated in the past, such as interest relief.

We have worked with students to rebalance their payments to be offset by

their earnings and reflect their earning and whatnot, but at this point in time

we are not considering a total forgiveness.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Thank you.

CHAIR:

Are you good on that, Ms Michael?

MS MICHAEL:

That is it, yes.

CHAIR:

I am going to ask for a motion to adopt

subheads 1.1.01 to 1.2.04.

Moved by Mr.

Cross; seconded by Mr. Pollard.

All in favour

signify by saying aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

Opposed, nay'.

Motion carried.

On motion,

subheads 1.1.01 through 1.2.04 carried.

CHAIR:

Ms Dempster, we can go on to continue

with you under subsection 2.1.01 or any

section beyond that.

MS DEMPSTER:

Thank you.

Again, at each of

the beginning of those pages I had some questions around discrepancies from last

year to this year.

I will move on:

Transportation and Communications, again, it seems very high.

I was just going to ask: What was covered there; why is it so high?

MR. O'BRIEN:

This is exactly what it is: Client

Services. You have a fair bit of

travel of staff from various offices to meet and support clients, so the travel

is up to about $475,000 under that category.

You have telecommunications which is $543,800 and then you have postage

cost as well of $84,000.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Under this

section, Minister, can you tell us what was purchased last year?

MR. O'BRIEN:

In Purchased Services?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Funding was again provided for

leasehold improvements at $22,000; you have photocopier leases of $90,000;

meeting room rentals of $32,000 when we were out in the Province; shredding

services of $14,000; advertising and promotions, $11,000; printing services of

$19,500; and some other general purchased services, about $63,000.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I am just

wondering why it came in $70,000 under the budget.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Under Purchased Services?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

The leasehold improvements were

deferred and were also used to offset the one-time computer system support costs

in the development of LAMPPS.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay. Lamps, in case the lights go

out again.

What is being purchased this year?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Say it again, what is being purchased this year?

MS DEMPSTER:

On a go-forward, yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Well, much the same thing. You

still have your leasehold improvements going forward; you always have that.

You have your photocopier costs and shredding services when it comes down

to client services.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay. So it is just

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, normal operating.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Page 8.7 under 3.1

CHAIR:

Ms Dempster, can I just go back to Ms Michael so we can finish off that section,

should we have some questions?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, that is fine.

CHAIR:

Ms Michael.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I just want to make sure I have everything clear with regard to the

reorganization, so that is what this question has to do with.

Under Client Services, is this where the Integrated Case Management is

happening?

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is correct.

MS MICHAEL:

That is right, okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Earlier on you talked about two regions, were you talking about two regions for

the whole Province?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, two regions for the full Province.

MS MICHAEL:

What are those regions called?

You mentioned the Western, so there is

MR. O'BRIEN:

The Eastern and Western. What it is

Central-east is all in the Eastern.

Gander and east is in one region, and then from Grand Falls west, including the

Northern Peninsula and Labrador, is in the other.

MS MICHAEL:

Labrador is west, okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Will each of those regions have one place where the case management is being

handled? Like a call I do not

want to say call centre, but one office in each place that will be handling all

the case management for those regions?

MR. O'BRIEN:

All of the intake in regard to calls will all go into Stephenville first, and

then if they go into overload which sometimes you get a spike in certain

months then it will go out to certain individuals who have been identified to

have the knowledge and the expertise to address those calls.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

Now, Minister

MR. O'BRIEN:

It is going to be an overall co-ordinated type of approach to the delivery of

the programs through Advanced Education and Skills.

MS MICHAEL:

Is that co-ordination going to take into account wait times?

Because right now we are still getting an awful lot of phone calls from

constituents and not just in my district, but from around the Province with

regard to how long people are on the phone waiting to get a call answered.

MR. O'BRIEN:

It is a big concern of mine as well, and that is one of the main reasons in

regard to the reorganization itself.

Also, we are working with a consultant along with OCIO on a new phone

system that will actually address some of those needs as well.

MS MICHAEL:

Is it in those two centres that the thirty-four new hires are happening?

MR. O'BRIEN:

No, they are going to be spread out.

Some of them will be here in the Eastern Region as well, in certain

offices right straight across Newfoundland and Labrador.

MS MICHAEL:

All related to the case management?

MR. O'BRIEN:

All related, absolutely.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Thank you.

CHAIR:

Are you good on that section, Ms

Michael?

MS MICHAEL:

That is fine, yes.

CHAIR:

Can I have a motion to adopt subhead

2.1.01?

You have a

follow-up question. Sorry, Ms.

Dempster.

MS DEMPSTER:

I just want to get up on a couple of

things there.

CHAIR:

Yes, go ahead.

MS DEMPSTER:

I had the same concerns.

I am thinking about the local knowledge piece, of somebody from Norman

Bay now calling Stephenville, and the person who is answering the phone is

wondering where on earth is Norman Bay, and someone is trying to explain why

they might need the extra money. I

guess we will see how we make out on a go-forward basis with that.

I had two

questions and one has just slipped my mind.

The wait times, is there an acceptable time and you are going to be

monitoring that? What is an

acceptable wait time on a phone line?

You might need to make improvements as you go.

Have you

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

Our system, I think the way it will work is no different than if you

phoned Air Canada. They will tell

you that because they have a high volume of calls, your expected wait time is

going to be thirty minutes or twenty minutes or two minutes.

We will be monitoring that.

That will give us a clear snapshot of how long people are waiting.

We have not set an

actual time in regard to what is an acceptable time, not as of yet, but we will

evaluate going forward exactly what is happening within our system.

Then we have the flexibility within the new thirty-four jobs to adjust

that too, as well. This is going to

be over a year. We are saying a

year, but we will hopefully have it all implemented prior to that.

One of the things

we are going to try to do is really focus on the amount of time that a person

has to wait on the phone. So it is

a combination of technology, a combination of evaluation and making sure we are

responsive to the needs.

MS DEMPSTER:

Thank you.

I just have one

more question there.

CHAIR:

Go ahead.

MS DEMPSTER:

Going back to some of the things I read

in the John Noseworthy report. He

talked about the client-to-client service officer ratio.

I am wondering on a go-forward, are you working with a ratio there?

MR. O'BRIEN:

We always look at the ratios.

We have a declining caseload.

The caseload has gone down significantly over the last number of years.

As a matter of

fact, each and every year we have about 500 less clients per year every year

because we have been effectively moving persons from Income Support to

meaningful jobs and meaningful lives.

We are always cognizant of that ratio because sometimes they are complex

needs and complex issues surrounding them.

We think on the reorg and how we will be able to respond to their needs,

that we have the right ratio and will have the right ratio with that declining

caseload.

MS DEMPSTER:

Thank you.

CHAIR:

Thank you.

I will ask for a

motion to adopt subhead 2.1.01.

Moved by Ms Perry;

seconded by Mr. Cross.

All those in

favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

Opposed?

Motion carried.

On motion, subhead

2.1.01 carried.

CHAIR:

We will move on now to

section 3.1.01.

I will go to Ms

Michael to start on this section.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Thank you very much.

I will have to

leave that

section I am looking at because it is not making sense to me.

So I will have to move on, sorry about this.

Under 3.1.03

Purchased Services, the budget has been cut in half.

Could we have the reasoning for that, please?

MR. O'BRIEN:

3.1

MS MICHAEL:

3.1.03. Mother/Baby Nutrition

Supplement. There are only three

subheads in that.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, okay.

Purchased Services?

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, it has been cut in half.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

The funds were provided for printing brochures, advertising, and other

items related to the program. That

is now consolidated into the Queen's Printer.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

So we do not need that.

MS MICHAEL:

Very good.

Under subhead 09,

in the same section, last year under Allowances and Assistance the budget was

not fully spent, yet you are maintaining the $320,000.

Why was it not fully spent last year?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Births.

MS MICHAEL:

Births.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Mainly births, so we are hoping for

more this year.

MS MICHAEL:

All right.

We knew the births were down, so you are hoping the births are going to

come up again. I will not ask you

how you are going to do that, minister.

We will not go there.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I will shy away from that one.

MS MICHAEL:

I do have a couple of general questions

with regard to Income Assistance.

It is not so much on the particulars there, but in general.

I was glad when I saw in the Budget that there was an incentive to help

people who were moving from Income Support into employment under Health.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

I am wondering, are there any

discussions under AES with regard to further disincentives for staying on Income

Support? I am wondering, for

example, are you thinking about an increase of allowable earnings while on

Income Support, or are there any other plans in place to further reduce

disincentives?

MR. O'BRIEN:

We are always having a look at all of

our programs in Advanced Education and Skills, especially myself as minister.

I know that there are a certain number of people, because of complex

needs and reasons, will always need Income Support and support from the

Province.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. O'BRIEN:

There are also a number of people who

may very well be able to avail of employment and meaningful lives, so we are

always in the process of evaluation.

We use our programs within our skilled developments and workforce

development strategies to try to move those people over too and support them in

regard to education and training our skill sector piece, sector skills

program, absolutely fabulous.

As a matter of

fact, I met with a person in Grand Falls-Windsor who praised that particular

program this past Friday. I met

with him and certainly looking forward to doing a couple of more of those

programs to enable those people to move from where they are to today into more

meaningful lives.

We try to support

a person within the confines of all of our programming dollars to make sure that

the person avails and has the opportunity to avail of any opportunity that is

out there.

I do not know if

that answers your questions. We are

pretty innovative in Advanced Education and Skills.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

I understand the

reason for tying a lot of that to the market.

I fully understand that, but I have had some examples brought to me by

individuals themselves of the determination of whether or not what the person

wants to do is something that fits the whole market analysis being what finally

decides the person cannot get assistance for further education.

I think sometimes

we need to have flexibility if somebody, for example I am just taking an

example off the top of my head in their thirties is looking at the desire to

go into BA because of the person's own desire of where he or she wants to move,

but it does not fit in the market to do that; they are being refused.

I have a problem

with that, so I am wondering what you think about that as minister.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I have a problem with that, too.

We are changing in regard to the policy surrounding that, having a good

look

at it, because certainly a person should have choice their own choice.

If we can support them in that choice to the point that they are

employed, well I think that is where we should be.

On a go-forward basis we are looking at re-evaluating the policy surrounding

that, make it more flexible, as you just referenced, making sure that the person

really is supported in the way they want to be supported.

Because it is no good for them to come in through the door having a dream

and then because of the stringent nature of the policy surrounding it, have that

dream really dashed. We are working

with our clients individually now, and I think you will see a big change over

the next six, seven months or so.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, well maybe I can pass that good information on to a couple of people I

have been speaking to

MR. O'BRIEN:

Please do.

MS MICHAEL:

because I can think of one case in particular where the person was going

around basically begging family members to help so that the person could do the

first year BA because of refusal.

This was a person who also had a disability.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Please, have them contact again.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

As you know the rule in regard to training was one in every four years.

We are even re-evaluating that, and maybe we should go down to one in

two, that kind of thing. We want to

be responsive to the needs of individuals.

MS MICHAEL:

That is good to hear.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Thank you.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you.

I think that is all for the moment.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Ms Michael.

Ms Dempster.

Subhead 3.

MS DEMPSTER:

Pardon me?

CHAIR:

Subhead 3 (inaudible).

MS DEMPSTER:

Subhead 3.1.01, federal revenue. I

am just wondering where, specifically, does that come from?

MR. O'BRIEN:

From the feds.

MS DEMPSTER:

Again, I might be asking questions that that is right everyone else knows

the answer to, but I am allowed, it is my first go.

CHAIR:

It is part of the Estimates, yes; don't feel bad about that.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I couldn't resist it comes

from the feds.

It is actually for

the Income Assistance to Innu. So

that is their responsibility.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

My next part,

still on that, is wondering why there is such an increase in that federal money.

MR. O'BRIEN:

In the federal money?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Well, I guess it is

MS DEMPSTER:

A huge jump there.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, there is a huge jump.

It is going from a budget of $200,000; revised was $700,000 and $861,000.

I would think it is according to the federal agreement, because they are

responsible. That is all federal

money; we will take it.

MS DEMPSTER:

Well, absolutely, I just wanted to

know. That is huge; where is it

coming from and what is it for?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

I would think it is just a variance in regard to our provincial-federal

agreement.

I can give you the

little bit more information in the House, if you want.

MS DEMPSTER:

That would be great.

Now, down to the

provincial, where does that come from?

From the Province, right?

MR. O'BRIEN:

In regard to that revenue, it is really

received from former and current income assistance clients who are making

payments on their accounts receivable balance.

They have been overpaid, that kind of stuff over the years.

MS DEMPSTER:

Claw backs and

MR. O'BRIEN:

Absolutely.

It is not really a

claw back; it is just that it is overpayments.

MS DEMPSTER:

I have a question, the health budget

2014, $700,000 allocated there to extend the drug coverage for low-income

residents under NLPDP. I am just

wondering: Does this mean someone on Income Support will get a year extension if

they are transitioning out?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Absolutely.

As a matter of fact, that has been extended to a year now.

It is not six months; it is up to a year

MS DEMPSTER:

I thought that.

I just wanted to make

MR. O'BRIEN:

which is a great benefit as well for

the transitioning of these people.

MS DEMPSTER:

That is it for me on that page.

CHAIR:

Ms. Michael, are you good on that

section?

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, thank you.

CHAIR:

If we could have a motion to adopt

subhead 3.1.01 to 3.1.03.

Moved by Mr.

Pollard; seconded by Ms Perry.

All in favour

signify by saying aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

Opposed, nay'.

Motion carried.

Ms Dempster,

sorry, go ahead.

MS DEMPSTER:

I do have questions on 3.1.03?

CHAIR:

Oh, sorry, I thought you had completed

the whole thing.

MS DEMPSTER:

I was going page for page.

CHAIR:

We will hold that motion and we will go

back to 3.1.03.

Go ahead.

MS DEMPSTER:

Looking under the Allowances and

Assistance, I am noticing that it was under spent by $70,000.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Which heading are you under, Lisa?

MS DEMPSTER:

Sorry, 3.1.03.

It was under spent

by $70,000.

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is correct.

MS DEMPSTER:

I am just wondering why.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Uptake, births.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, now I have a couple of follow-up

questions on that.

I am wondering how

many women last year received the supplement, and I am really interested in

finding out how it is advertised.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I can get you the number; that is a

number that I would not have with me here this morning, but I can provide you

that in the House of Assembly as well.

In regard to

advertising, we use a lot of avenues to get the word out: the Family Resource

Centres, physicians, nurses, all kinds of ways of doing that.

I think it is pretty well understood in regard to this program being

available but each and every year we take on brochures, that kind of thing.

Each and every year we take on a piece of work in regard to getting the

message out, even in the hospitals itself, and make sure a new mom gets the

right information that becomes available to them, and then they can apply for

the service.

MS DEMPSTER:

I ask because sometimes how you get the

message out in rural is very different than how you need to do it in urban,

because my mind goes back to when I sat as a Labrador rep on the Provincial

Wellness Advisory and there was discussion around promoting breastfeeding and

why that kind of peeked at a certain number and it did not go further.

There was some focus on who should be the messenger, and they were

talking about physicians. Well,

especially in my district, once you go to a centre and have the baby when you

come back you are not seeing a doctor anymore; you are going into community

clinics. So that is why but I am

sure you have staff who are cognizant of that.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Actually, the nurses, in regard to the

place of birth, the hospitals, they are the best avenue to get the message out

because they sit with the new moms.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, and community clinics in our case

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, that is right, exactly.

MS DEMPSTER:

would definitely need to be the avenue

because there are no hospitals there.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

I wondered how much each woman gets,

and is it just for women on Income Support?

MR. O'BRIEN:

No, all low income.

It does not matter about Income Support.

MS DEMPSTER:

What is the threshold there?

MR. O'BRIEN:

They get $60 per month, I know that,

and $90 one time, but what is the threshold in regard to low income?

OFFICIAL:

I will have to check.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I have to check that number because

they are all different.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, that is fine.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I cannot remember exactly what is

attached to this program under policy, but I will get that to you as well.

MS DEMPSTER:

That is fair.

There are a lot of programs.

MR. O'BRIEN:

That will be quick for me to get it for

you.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

CHAIR:

Are you good?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

CHAIR:

Okay.

We will go with the motion by Mr. Pollard, seconded by Ms Perry, to adopt

subhead 3.1.01 to 3.1.03.

All those in

favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

Opposed?

Motion carried.

On motion,

subheads 3.1.01 through 3.1.03 carried.

CHAIR:

Okay, we will move to subhead 4.1.01.

Continue Ms

Michael.

MS MICHAEL:

This is a complicated section.

MR. O'BRIEN:

For me too.

MS MICHAEL:

I bet.

We are sort of going to be going back and forth from two different sets

of notes. I will try to do this

well.

With regard to a

couple of line items first, 4.1.01, they are small amounts but I am just

curious. Under Professional

Services and Purchased Services, which come under subhead 01, there is $5,000

allowed for Professional Services.

It looks like it is a pro forma thing because nothing was spent, yet $5,000 is

maintained, the same way with the $18,000.

What would be the types of services they are under that section?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Under Professional Services and Purchased Services?

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, please.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Under Purchased Services it would be like printing brochures, advertising, that

kind of stuff. Professional

Services would be if you needed a consultant or someone of that sort to support

the new division.

MS MICHAEL:

What would that $4,000 have been then, do you have that detail?

I am just curious.

MR. O'BRIEN:

The $5,000?

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, $4,000 under Purchased Services.

It was revised down from $18,000 to $4,000 under Purchased Services.

MR. O'BRIEN:

What would that $4,000 spent

MS MICHAEL:

Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I do not have that in front of me but I can get it for you.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, please. It would give me an

idea.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I would think it is the development of brochures and all that kind of stuff, but

I can certainly get it for you.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

Under 4.1.02, it is not really a line item, but as it says there in the

explanation, it is appropriations for the development and implementation of a

comprehensive suite of employment and training programs.

I know under the department you are fully aware of everything that is now under

that, but I wonder could we have the list of what exactly the comprehensive

suite is? What are the employment

and training programs that now fit under that section?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Okay. Yes, I can do that.

Unless you want me to list them all out here today?

MS MICHAEL:

If it is a long, long list you can just send it to all of us afterwards.

If it is a short one

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, because there are subs to all of them.

There is the LMA and there are subs under that, and there is the

MS MICHAEL:

That is what I was looking at. Are

the labour market programs coming in there?

Are there new programs there that we are not aware of, and the employment

services that have moved from community organizations to department staff?

That is a separate question under the programs is what I have said.

Then I have another question.

We have had a number of employment services that have been moved from community

organizations back to the department.

Is there any evaluation going on of the impact of that?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Oh, absolutely.

MS MICHAEL:

Can you give us some idea of

that?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, we evaluate as we go forward each

and every day in regard to the number of clients and the types of services that

we provide those clients.

The programs under

that division include youth and student services; you have the Employability

Assistance for Persons with Disabilities; you have the labour market adjustment,

which is TIOW; Labour Market Agreement; the Labour Market Development Agreement;

and the Employment Development Supports.

Right now Advanced

Education and Skills is really a one-stop shop.

The programs are very flexible and more responsive to the clients.

They do not have to go to a second tier in regard to availing of the

services. We do evaluate making

sure that we are meeting the needs of the people.

MS MICHAEL:

I am just curious, minister and I

have a feeling my colleague from Cartwright L'Anse au Clair may be asking the

same question. How do you evaluate

from the perspective of the community's perspective whether or not needs are

being met as well as they were being met before?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Okay.

The way we do that is in regard to the number of clients we have served.

If I remember right I will get it for you here now.

If I remember right, there are about 10,000 individuals who avail of the

work experience programs, employment supports.

As well, we have about 8,217 employers that have visited our JobsNL sites

and that kind of stuff.

We evaluate in

that process because we advertise.

We make sure people are aware of all the programs that are out there that they

can avail of as best we can in regard to ads, brochures, services, and our 1-800

numbers, along with the services that are provided through our staff.

We evaluate according to the number of people who come in through our

doors, either that or call for services.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I evaluate them myself by the number of

certificates I sign every single morning in the Apprenticeship Program.

It is worth your while to see the number of people going through that

process.

MS MICHAEL:

I have a question on that later on.

You can answer it now if you want.

In terms of numbers going up, do you have numbers going up?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, we have.

It varies from year to year due to the simple reason that we have a very

robust economy out there. We have

kind of plateaued in regard to the number of people seeking training because

they are employed. Now we have to

sort of balance that and convince some of those people to actually train up,

regardless of the employment for the future.

That is a process that we are going through as well.

We have had upwards of a little over 5,000 individuals who we trained

this year alone and funded.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

Do you have a number on your fingertips of how many have been training up

in terms of becoming journeyed?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, I do.

Journeypersons will be no wait now, I will get that right here now.

Where is that? I have it

here. Just give me one second

there, Lorraine.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, no problem.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Did you get that, Dennis?

I am going to have to get that for you, Lorraine.

I do not have it right at my fingertips; I am sorry.

MS MICHAEL:

Right, that is okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I apologize for that.

MS MICHAEL:

I understand having a lot of paper and

not being able to find something.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I did have it.

MS MICHAEL:

While looking for that then I would be

interested too in the gender breakdown.

Are the numbers going up of women?

MR. O'BRIEN:

It is.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, if we could have that number as

well.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, we have one program that targets

Aboriginal people and women.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

Okay, so if we

could have a sense of that.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, absolutely.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you.

CHAIR:

Okay, Ms Michael, I appreciate it.

I will go back to Ms Dempster.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, I think we can give a chance to

CHAIR:

Go to someone else.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, very good.

CHAIR:

Ms Dempster, go ahead.

MS DEMPSTER:

Thank you.

Okay, page 8.9,

4.1.01.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Subhead 4.1.01.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, and I have a generic question

probably just for my benefit.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Okay.

MS DEMPSTER:

This seems to be a new

section of the

budget from last year.

MR. O'BRIEN:

It is.

MS DEMPSTER:

I am just wondering under what heading

of last year's budget were those positions factored in.

MR. O'BRIEN:

It will be combined into a number of

headings actually. To be quite

honest with you it would be hard for me to break it down for you here.

This is a new program that oversees the actual Workforce Development and

Immigration strategy.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I have a couple of questions there.

Where is the Population Growth Strategy in the budget?

I am wondering what was allocated for this year?

When is it coming out? When

can we expect to see more on that?

MR. O'BRIEN:

We should soon be tabling, releasing

our document of what we have heard in regard to the consultation process.

We are hoping to have the strategy itself finalized probably by early

fall.

It is quite

complex. You had to go out and

consult particularly with the people of the Province.

As a matter of fact we had a great response right across the Province.

As a matter of fact their online response service as well was used fairly

often. We have extracted a lot of

information there on ideas that the people of the Province have had.

Currently we have

I believe three people working in regard to the Population Growth Strategy doing

some great work and whatnot. It is

incorporated into our full envelope of employees in regard to those particular

three people.

MS DEMPSTER:

Do you have a list of the titles and

positions attached with that strategy?

MR. O'BRIEN:

I sure could, yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

That would be great.

Okay, that is all

I have on that page, Mr. Chair.

CHAIR:

Okay, you can keep going.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, keep going?

Under page 8.9, I

have the same question again, but it could be just me.

A new

section of the budget; I was trying to find under what heading last

year the positions were factored in.

The Business Transformation Report recommended streamlining the seventy

AES programs into forty-three. I am

just wondering: Was Noseworthy's recommendation followed there?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Just a second now.

Yes, well in regard to that report we have had probably about 47 per cent

of the recommendations implemented or in process.

The other 50 per cent are under evaluation and moving forward as well.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

All of our labour market funding

programs is now under this division of employment and training programs.

We have a full suite of programs under this division.

In regard to the

employees, they have an expertise very responsive to their needs.

It makes us really more responsive and productive and as well easier to

evaluate all the programs, making sure that we are actually having the impact

not only in Eastern Newfoundland and Labrador but in the remote areas as well.

It will just give us a clearer picture of exactly what we are doing.

That is one of the reasons why we needed to do this.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Under 4.1.03.09,

Allowances and Assistance, I am just wondering what would be covered under this.

Then I have the same question again about Grants and Subsidies; what

would be covered under this?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Do you want the Allowances and

Assistance first?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Okay.

Allowances

included Employment Development Supports of approximately $800,000; as well as

$600,000 in regard to the ABE placement support allowance.

The Employment Development Supports is funding that is provided to assist

Income Support and non-EI eligible clients pursuing education, training.

It is a program of less than twelve weeks and not supported or covered by

student aid. Under the ABE

placement, the placement support allows for and includes a $200 start-up

allowance and then a $50 monthly stipend on transportation, if required, to that

particular person.

Under the grants

piece, you have the Linkages Program which is a provincial youth employment and

career program; you have NL Works, which is comprised of a long-term and

seasonal component which provides a wage subsidy to assist employers in creating

employment opportunities; then, you have the Employment Development Supports

grants to agencies which certainly includes Vera Perlin, Stella Burry, the T.I.

Murphy Centre, and that kind of stuff.

That is in the total of $4.8 million

MS DEMPSTER:

Minister, even if I could just get a

list.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I can give you a list.

MS DEMPSTER:

That would be good.

It would save you that.

MR. O'BRIEN:

They are long.

MS DEMPSTER:

That is it for me.

CHAIR:

Would we like to take a ten-minute

break so people could stretch their legs and if they need to go the washroom.

Lorraine, do you have

MS MICHAEL:

(Inaudible) would we be able to have

the names you named some of them, I think but of the employers under this?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, a pleasure.

MS MICHAEL:

That would be good.

Thank you very

much.

Did you answer the

question under Grants and Subsidies, the $900,000 difference last year but we

are back up to basically the same amount this year?

The revision of last year's budget showed a difference of $900,000 not

spent.

MR. O'BRIEN:

We had some savings in regard to the

business development projects.

Random North Development Association folded; they did not put in a request.

Then we had difficulties, I guess, in recruiting eligible participants as

well, but we have a push on now within the department to make sure that if there

are any partners out there that we can partner with, well then we are there to

help them. That is where the

savings came from.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you.

You had the

Employment Transition program for single parents with three sites.

Do you have the numbers of clients and the numbers who were employed?

MR. O'BRIEN:

We can get it for you.

MS MICHAEL:

You can get that for us?

Thank you very

much.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, absolutely.

MS MICHAEL:

That is it, Mr. Chair.

CHAIR:

Perfect.

We will take a

break until 10:40 a.m., please.

Thank you.

Recess

CHAIR:

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we are

about to continue.

Ms Dempster, I am

going to go back to you and start on that same section.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Can I have a second?

CHAIR:

Sure, yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I have some updates.

First, for you

Lorraine; in regard to journeypersons, it has increased from $257,000 in 2005 to

$508,000 in 2013.

MS MICHAEL:

Great.

MR. O'BRIEN:

In regard to the Population Growth

Strategy, we have two analysts and an executive director providing the

oversight. That is the three people

we have there, and there are 11,590 students in default.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you very much.

CHAIR:

Good information.

Ms Dempster.

MS DEMPSTER:

We are on 4.1.04?

MR. O'BRIEN:

04, yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

My first question is around the Revenue

Federal there. Is this the total

LMDA funding for the year?

MR. O'BRIEN:

This is the total.

We budgeted $104,202,200 and that is the Federal Labour Market Agreement.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

The Salaries

budget overspent by $200,000 last year, I am just wondering

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is severance.

MS DEMPSTER:

Severance?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Minister, given

that this is the LMDA money, do these Client Services officers and managers only

deal with EI eligible clients?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, that is the EI eligible program.

MS DEMPSTER:

Their workloads are divided that way.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Absolutely.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Looking at

Professional Services, the budget was overspent by $400,000 last year.

I am just wondering why and what was purchased there?

MR. O'BRIEN:

That was the extension on the computer

system as we are moving into our own

MS DEMPSTER:

LAMPPS?

MR. O'BRIEN:

LAMPPS, yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, okay.

Then under

Purchased Services we see an underspending of $360,000.

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is the funding that was originally

budgeted to cover the office lease cost and was used to cover the additional

computer system costs under Professional Services.

We switched one to the other, which we can do under the LMDA program.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I have a question

around JCPs. I am wondering, what

is the status? We put a call into

the department, I think it was around February 18, and we never heard back.

Is this program still continuing?

MR. O'BRIEN:

JCPs?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Absolutely.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

As a matter of fact, we went to call

for proposals about a month ago maybe.

They are all under evaluation now, so I will be probably pushing them out

the door pretty soon.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, that was my next question.

Yes, okay, all right.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I am sure you will be after me.

MS DEMPSTER:

Pardon me?

MR. O'BRIEN:

I am sure you will be after me.

MS DEMPSTER:

What is the budget amount allocated for

JCP?

MR. O'BRIEN:

The JCPs are up around $11 million now.

MS DEMPSTER:

Eleven million dollars?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

There have been no changes in criteria or anything with that?

MR. O'BRIEN:

No.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I have another question on the final one, Grants and Subsidies.

What types of organizations uptake this funding?

Can I get a list of that?

MR. O'BRIEN:

This is all individuals actually in

regard to the grants.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

It is all individuals who get funded up

under the LMDA program. Under the

allowances you have I mentioned Random North has folded.

You have Stella Burry, you have the Victorian Order of Nurses, and the

Salvation Army. I can give you the

list.

MS DEMPSTER:

That is the list I was talking about,

yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, that is the list you are talking

about right?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I can give you that if you want.

MS DEMPSTER:

Perfect.

I appreciate that.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, and I would like you to include

the number of clients as well.

MR. O'BRIEN:

We can get that for you, absolutely.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, that is all the questions I had

for that page.

CHAIR:

Okay.

Well I will go to Ms Michael to finish that section.

Then we will come back again to the other parts of that section.

Yes, that is great.

Ms Michael.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Well I just threw in the mike was not on when I did it but I did

include asking for the number of clients in that list.

All my other questions under that

section were asked, so I do not have

any more under 04.

Going on to 05,

this is Labour Market Agreement.

Obviously, it is the reorganizing that has created that change in Salaries.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Under the Salaries, yes it is.

It is a reallocation of program funding within the LMA.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

About how many employees would have been involved in that?

Do you have that number?

MR. O'BRIEN:

The number of employees David, you

are going to have to give that to me.

I do not see it on my sheet.

OFFICIAL:

Ten to twelve.

MR. O'BRIEN:

There are about ten to twelve involved.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, very good.

So nobody dropped,

just moved around.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Just moved around absolutely not.

MS MICHAEL:

Great.

Under

Transportation and Communications, a major amount of money spent there that was

not budgeted for, $131,000 actually.

What caused that?

MR. O'BRIEN:

LAMPPS again, training costs.

MS MICHAEL:

Up that much?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, but this year it is down to

$20,000.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, because LAMPPS will be

implemented. It is training the

trainer, right?

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, right.

Under Professional

Services, the budget was $264,700.

What was that for? It was obviously

not spent. Only $1,000 was spent,

or it was revised to $1,000.

MR. O'BRIEN:

As you know, we can reallocate funds

under the LMA programming on the federal side.

Under Professional Services it is really funding that is provided to

deliver the programs and services, but we did not need that so we just

reallocated that amount of money.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

What would have

been delivered that you did not need?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Again, in Professional Services if we

would need a consultant and hire a consultant for some reason or another in the

past for the producing of any kind informational brochures and whatnot.

MS MICHAEL:

It sort of looked like there was a real

plan in place to cost that much money, I guess, that is why I am asking.

MR. O'BRIEN:

It changes from year to year.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Under Purchased

Services, again it went up. The

revision was up by $36,000 but then this year back down to $90,000.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Canada Job Grant consultations.

That is a new grant, the Canada Job Grant by the feds so we needed to do

a consultation process and that cost us about $36,000.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

That was the

complications through the consultation.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, great.

Thank you.

Under Allowances

and Assistance, there was a difference of $1.3 million, I think, between the

budget and the estimate; $38 million.

What was that about?

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is just a reallocation of

programming as well. We just adjust

it.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Then that reorganization is staying in place obviously?

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is correct.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Then under Grants

and Subsidies, we see the revision was $1.5 million more than had been

estimated.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

That is another reallocation of programming to meet the needs; demand

driven.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

I wonder under

this one you are used to getting this question.

Could we have a list of the employers and numbers of clients in this one

as well?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, absolutely.

MS MICHAEL:

Great.

Thank you.

That is all I have

for 4.1.05. Will I move on, Mr.

Chair?

CHAIR:

Yes, you can go on to 4.1.06.

MS MICHAEL:

Under 4.1.06, the question there, I

just have one under Grants and Subsidies.

The revision was $421,000 less than projected.

What would have accounted for that?

MR. O'BRIEN:

The project approvals were a little

less than the it is demand driven again, as well. Certainly, the Grants and

Subsidies in that category is a cost-shared agreement between ourselves and the

feds on a 70-30 basis to target older workers.

It is still demand driven.

As I mentioned before in regard to the economy, there is a lot of the older

workers who are actually working.

MS MICHAEL:

Right, okay.

Then obviously you are going to maintain the money because you never know

what is going to happen.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Absolutely.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, great.

Thank you.

I think that is

all I have for that one.

Under 4.1.07, I do

not have any questions there, actually.

Under 4.1.08, once

again $1.2 million was not used. Is

that a similar answer there as well?

MR. O'BRIEN:

It is.

There were savings of about $600,000 under the graduate program.

That is charged off to the feds. Then

we just switched over in regard to because you will see that the Estimates are

down by $800,000 in regard to the Inclusion Grants and the $600,000 too, there

as well. So it is a reallocation of

funds meeting the requirement.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

If I could come

back to 4.1.07, it is more of a general question.

It is not a line item so much.

What will the new Labour Market Agreement for Persons with Disabilities

contain? When will we know the

details of that?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Pretty soon.

We are moving through in negotiations now as we speak on all of the

programs. I think the LMA is there,

the Canada Job Grant is there, and we are moving into the LMDA as well.

So over the next couple of months or so we should have a clearer snapshot

in regard to what the feds are requiring.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

With regard to

MR. O'BRIEN:

If you can remind me, I will share it

with you when it comes, if we can.

Just remind me as well.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, it would be good to get that.

Okay, Susan, make

that note, that we will do that.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, we are getting old.

MS MICHAEL:

No, too much to deal with.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

With regard to the vehicle

demand?

MR. O'BRIEN:

It is a good program, high uptake, I

guess. When it comes down to the

budget, you can only do so much in each and every year.

So we divide that $400,000 in the upgrading of vehicles and $200,000 in

regard to non-for-profits making their buildings more accessible to people with

disabilities.

We anticipate full

uptake again this year. We tried it

and it worked. The community was

quite responsive, so I am really happy with that one.

I wanted that bad in this Budget.

MS MICHAEL:

Do you know or do you have if it does

exist, was there, not so much a waiting list, but were there applications that

were not able to be met last year?

MR. O'BRIEN:

We met most of the applications.

There were a few that we did not meet, but we are going out now with

another Request for Proposals. We

will keep them in the queue as well.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Absolutely.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

Under 4.1.09

CHAIR:

Ms Michael, I am going to let you

finish that, then I will go back to Ms Dempster and you can go back and review

all of them.

MS MICHAEL:

Sure.

CHAIR:

Normally we try to if there is a flow

going we continue and you can go back wherever it starts and finish up.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

I just have a

quick question actually on this.

Two questions, one has to do with lines.

I will ask the other one first.

What actually

constitutes this division now, the Skills and Labour Market Research?

What actually fits into that now?

MR. O'BRIEN:

That division is responsible for the

development and delivery of labour market information resources and services for

individuals and employers. It

supports them in the research we have on future labour demands where they can

actually position themselves, train up the right people, and, as well,

individuals see the opportunity. So

we supply that information and then they can really make up their own mind where

they want to go with their careers.

MS MICHAEL:

Great.

Okay, thank you.

Then, my line item

questions are under the Professional Services and Purchased Services.

In one case in the Professional Services $104,600 not spent and in the

Purchased Services a large amount over what was budgeted.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

We had lower requirements than was originally expected in the

Professional Services so we reallocated that money to cover the purchase service

requirements which was additional costs related to the maintenance of the JobsNL

site, form development and that kind of work activity.

We had 3.7 million

hits on JobsNL since April, 2013 to February.

So it is a pretty busy site.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

That is it then for me.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Ms Michael.

I will go back to

Ms Dempster. You can go over any of

those sections here if you like.

MS DEMPSTER:

(Inaudible) 4.1.05.

I misunderstood, I thought we were going page for page.

I do want to ask

the minister I do not think I am going to get through what I have here, so how

do we go from here? Do I send you a

list of the questions that I do not get time to get answered today, or what is

the process?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, absolutely.

MS DEMPSTER:

I imagine it is only a one-shot deal to

sit in Estimates, is it?

MR. O'BRIEN:

It is, yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

But feel free, absolutely.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, because I have quite a bit of

material here.

Back to 4.1.05, Ms

Michael did ask a question about the $550,000 under spent, and I had questions

around that as well. With the

drastic cut in Salaries from last year to this year and a lot of the answers are

revolving around the restructuring and stuff, so I am wondering about a

briefing. This was in my mind last

week as well. Is it possible to get

a briefing later on all of the changes within the department, just so we have an

understanding of it?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, we can.

I just want to

impress on you that there is no staff loss there in regard to the salary

component. It is just that we are

reallocating the funding within the LMA to meet the market needs.

We have absorbed the salary costs for those particular people in our main

budget line in regard to the provincial side.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

So it is a moving around?

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is right, yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, okay.

It just seemed to be a high amount there.

Again, maybe the

answer is similar with Transportation and Communications.

The revised numbers from last year have almost tripled.

Is that sort of the same?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, LAMPPS training again.

Our focus was on the LAMPPS program which is going to be really

beneficial to the department.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

OFFICIAL:

What does that stand for, LAMPPS?

MS DEMPSTER:

LAMPPS is a system they are now using

for data. I am not sure what the

acronym is for.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Well, I do not know.

Your guess is as good as mine.

Somebody came up with it.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, I know.

They have gone through a number over the last two decades.

MR. O'BRIEN:

It is a good program to consolidate all

our services.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, somebody just asked that question.

MR. O'BRIEN:

It gives us a clear picture in regard

to what we are doing.

MS DEMPSTER:

With the JCPs I just want to pop back

and ask a question for a minute.

What was the deadline for that? I

never saw anything out on that and I do have a number of inquiries.

MR. O'BRIEN:

We put out a Request for Proposals

April 4?

OFFICIAL:

April 15.

MR. O'BRIEN:

April 15.

MS DEMPSTER:

April 15?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, April 15 and then we have a second

round in July.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I will make sure my groups know about that.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I am sure you will.

MS DEMPSTER:

I still have one more follow-up

question under Transportation and Communications.

I am just wondering why there is such a big reduction from last year,

given there was such a high spending in this area in previous years from what I

can see.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Are you still on 4.1.05?

MS DEMPSTER:

I am going from the $83,000 down to

$20,000.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, in regard to that category, it

depends on the pressure points that you have in any given year.

This year our training costs were approximately $150,000 greater than we

anticipated under the LAMPPS program, so that piece there.

Then we had a reduction in regard to the administration costs on the

federal-provincial agreement as well.

It is a mismatch of things within that category.

It is no reflection that people are not travelling and that kind of stuff

in regard to the programming.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, I got it.

MR. O'BRIEN:

We just had to get that piece of work

done on the LAMPPS.

MS DEMPSTER:

Just a side comment, I find it

interesting that right here in reference to this part of the budget the number

is very accurate with last year's Estimates, but then in a load of other places

it was not. I thought that was

noteworthy of mention.

Under 09,

Allowances and Assistance, it was underspent by $1.6 million last year.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, that is again reallocating the

money around, which we have flexibility to do under the federal agreement.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, okay.

The Grants and

Subsidies, can I get a list there?

I see you overspent by $1.5 million.

That is probably just a switch around.

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is a carry forward as well under

Grants and Subsidies.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Under the present federal agreement you

can carry forward. So when you look

at the budget Estimates for 2014-2015 which is only at $4.8 million, well that

reflects that actual agreement and the expected number that we are going to have

once that agreement is signed.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Can you take a

minute to tell us about the status of Labour Market Agreement and the Canada Job

Grant?

MR. O'BRIEN:

I had a number of meetings with the

federal minister, a number of conversations with the federal minister in regard

to the Canada Job Grant. It looks a

lot different, I should say, now than it did previous to his first offer.

I had serious concerns with regard to any kind of an impact it would have

on our LMA program which certainly addresses the needs and the challenges for

the most vulnerable people in the Province.

At the end of the

day, there will be no impact on our LMA program whatsoever.

I do agree that employers should participate.

I am not sure really what the uptake will be in the first year in regard

to the employer participation, but we are going to certainly pursue that as

well.

We are moving

through the actual agreement right now in regard to the nuts and bolts of that

agreement. We should have it all

completed by, probably, the first part of July.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I know there were some sticky issues there back and forth.

MR. O'BRIEN:

No, they worked that out.

MS DEMPSTER:

With the other provinces, I mean.

I have been following it a little bit in the news.

MR. O'BRIEN:

We work well together, all the

provincial ministers; we work really well together in regard to all the

challenges, and individual challenges from one province to another.

Instead of having each one of us working individually, we were all

working off the same page.

MS DEMPSTER:

Good.

I have one more

follow-up on that. Will the Canada

Job Grant only target the non-EI eligible?

MR. O'BRIEN:

It will.

MS DEMPSTER:

It will?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, non-EI.

Well, it depends

on how we negotiate it as well. We

are trying to negotiate it in regard to the contract itself, some flexibility in

eligibility and all that kind of good gear.

So for me to give you an answer on that would be really, I can fill you

in once the agreement is completed.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

On 4.1.06, again

is looks like an under spending there of $400,000.

I am just wondering who received the money and again if I could get a

list?

MR. O'BRIEN:

I can give you a list of that as well.

It is just that the project approvals were less.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Also, is this just

money for the targeted initiative for older workers?

MR. O'BRIEN:

This one there is a 70-30 agreement

that we have. Yes, it is.

Most of those people, either they are retired and they do not want to go

on with any type of work, or they are actually working.

The uptake is a little bit less than what we anticipated last year, but

we put another effort on to see if we can target them again and loop them over.

It is just like spikes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, okay.

I did have a

follow-up that I forgot, sorry, on the Income Support.

The $4.8 million increase, is that for the year or is that over five

years?

MR. O'BRIEN:

The $4.8 million starts on July 1, so

then it is annualized at, I think, five point six.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

The Fish Plant

Worker Employment Support Program, is that done?

That was a one-shot deal. Is

it still active, that program?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Well, it depends.

That is really held down at the Department of Fisheries Municipal

Affairs actually administers that program, not me.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Not this department, I should say.

MS DEMPSTER:

Do you know what?

When I met with you a few months ago, you were the Minister of Municipal

Affairs and that was part of the conversation we had.

Maybe I am getting old, too.

The federal

revenue on that page, 4.1.06, where does that pot come from?

MR. O'BRIEN:

The feds.

I cannot resist.

MS DEMPSTER:

That is fair.

MR. O'BRIEN:

That federal revenue is provided

MS DEMPSTER:

Is that specifically for the

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is the 70 per cent that they

provide. That is their 70 per cent

and we have to provide 30 per cent.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

It is specifically

for the TIOW?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Under 4.1.07,

Allowances and Assistance, what is covered under that?

MR. O'BRIEN:

I can give you a list, as well.

You have your training services program.

You have your supportive employment job trainers.

Then you have the PRS initiatives, which include funding for the school

to work transition supports for persons with disabilities.

There are a number of things involved there.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

A list there, and

in the Grants and Subsidies, I am just wondering what agencies might be

availing. If I could get a list

that would be great, and we can chug on along.

Again, for my

clarification purposes, the federal revenue there, is that the Labour Market

Agreement for Persons with Disabilities?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Partially.

That federal revenue is partially to offset the cost of the eligible

expenditures, which is the 70 per cent.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I just had a

question, too, around the Inclusion Strategy.

I am wondering what your goals are this year for that?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Well, we are going to break it out.

We have $600,000 identified for the Inclusion Strategy to support people

regard to non-for-profit organizations that want to make their buildings more

accessible to people with disabilities.

Then we will start moving forward on many components in supporting people

with disabilities.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, thank you.

Under 4.1.08, this

section in last year's Budget book had $200,000 in Salaries.

I am just wondering, where are these positions now?

There is nothing there.

MR. O'BRIEN:

You are into 4.1.08?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN:

They are incorporated into the reorg as

well. There is no loss in the

supportive services there under Youth and Student Services.

They are incorporated into the overall envelope with regard to the new

divisions.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Grants and

Subsidies; again, I was wondering what types of grants and subsidies?

I noticed it was under spent by $1 million last year.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

You have your SWASP programs; you have your gradual employment programs.

You have your student employments one, two, and three.

We have adjusted that this year in regard to collapsing three programs

down to two; one for post-secondary, one application process.

The elimination of the tuition vouchers allowing us to employ these

students for longer as well as more hours per day, and actually an extra 200

students as well.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Like the budget being reduced down to $800,000.

I suppose that always concerns me if I see places where we are not

spending the monies that were allocated because the need seems so great.

I am just not sure. Is it

because people are not aware?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

There is a bit of re-profiling of money too under the Inclusion Grants

and one-time money for the close out of the case management system under LAMPPS

as well.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

It is just the reallocation of money.

The same money is there for the student employment.

MS DEMPSTER:

Again, we can get a list from this

area, can we?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, sure you can.

MS DEMPSTER:

That would be great.

Under 4.1.09, this

is a new

section this year right?

MR. O'BRIEN:

A new division, yes it is.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

I am wondering: Where did these positions come from?

What positions are included there in that amount?

MR. O'BRIEN:

There are nine permanent and temporary

positions included in this division.

It came from the previous divisions within the department.

This brings it together under the Skills and Labour Market Research

division, which is absolutely required if we are going to meet the needs of our

clients.

MS DEMPSTER:

I have some questions around the 70,000

job openings. I think it was in the

2020 document. In 2011 it talked

about the I am looking at Dennis because he would be familiar with this, too

70,000, and we have not had any updates since then.

We do not know if it is now 50,000 or 40,000.

Is there an

update? Because I have employers

saying to me: we need this labour market information, Lisa, and it is like

trying to get blood from a turnip just to quote them.

Are there some updated figures that your department has on that?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, I will provide it.

We are working on that now, actually, a reevaluation and making sure we

have all of our numbers right, connected to upcoming projects and all that kind

of stuff, and retirements, et cetera.

Anyway, we will

move it forward to you. As soon as

I get it, I will give it to you. It

will give you a good snapshot.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

Given the concern we have about the labour market in the Province, we

have to really get a good handle on that.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, we will give you both.

Each and every one of them, I will do both.

Is that okay?

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, excellent.

Professional

Services again, I am still looking at 4.1.09.

This is a new section. I am

just wondering what was budgeted for here?

This

section was under spent by $100,000.

MR. O'BRIEN:

It is just that it is down.

It was originally expected that we would require the $150,000, but as we

just talked about, it is a new division.

We did not spend that money because by the time it became active we did

not need that amount, but we probably will, going forward.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

There was a

discrepancy I saw in Salaries but it is not coming to me now.

We can move on.

Over to 4.1.10; I

have some questions around immigration, and they kind of tie into the labour

market. It was two years ago that

the budget was significantly cut by more than 40 per cent.

We know immigration is going to play a big

part in helping us with the

direction that we are moving in in addressing the labour market shortages.

Is there any plan

to fill the executive director position and the other senior positions that were

I guess I want to know what you are doing to address some of that.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I guess what we have done, and

sometimes you are reluctant to use the word streamlining, but I think we are

more effective in regard to what we do for immigrants on a go-forward basis,

differently than what we used to do before.

To give you an

example, our numbers are going up each and every year.

In 2012 we had 731. This

year we are going to have 838 by the looks of things.

We are being effective in the supports.

We have had a mission over to Ireland, which was really successful.

I cannot remember the number but I think it was twelve or thirteen people

in regard to that. We are planning

other missions. We are developing

an action plan in what we are going to do there, too.

When you look at

the number of persons as compared to the results, you will see that the results

are much different than you would probably think in regard to that overall 40

per cent cut. I would rather take

our money and spend it elsewhere, especially when we are having the desired

effect and impact that we are having.

Now we have the

new Expression of Interest agreement that we are negotiating with the federal

minister, Chris Alexander, which will probably give us another target number of

about 550 possible immigrants that we can take out of the labour pool which will

be a national pool. That gives us

right now we are looking at no less than 850, and probably even over 1,000.

MS DEMPSTER:

Did you say that was another agreement?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

What is the name of that agreement?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Expression of Interest.

MS DEMPSTER:

Pardon me?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Expression of Interest.

MS DEMPSTER:

Expression of Interest.

Okay, thank you.

MR. O'BRIEN:

I should tell you they are looking for

a new name for that particular agreement.

They have not come up with it yet.

Anyways, that is a new agreement over and above the nominee program.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Still on 4.1.10;

again, I was wondering why the discrepancy from the $654,000 not the $687,000.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Which line are you on?

MS DEMPSTER:

I am there on 4.1.10, Salaries.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Okay, yes.

We had a vacancy,

and also we had an increase in the collective bargaining agreement offset and

the signing bonuses there as well.

We are in the process now of advertising and filling a few vacancies across the

department, which are very few really.

We have about twenty I think overall, which in a big department like

this. With people retiring, you are

going to have a certain amount of vacancies and you have to go through that

process.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I had questions

around Transportation and Communications, but I guess that is just travel

throughout the Province.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, that is correct.

It is FPT meetings, that kind of stuff as well.

I am responsible for four federal ministers now; they are my

counterparts. So I have four

Federal-Provincial-Territorial meetings every year at least four, if not

eight.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Under Professional

Services, $30,000 under spent there.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Professional Services that is the

evaluation of the Provincial Nominee Program.

That will be completed in the first of this fiscal year.

We did not get it done last year, but we will complete it in this fiscal

year.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Anything glaring

under Purchased Services for that amount allocated this year?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Purchased Services no, just room

rentals, advertising promotions, printing, general services that we use to

support our operation.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

The Grants and

Subsidies, the $145,000, if I could get a list again that would be great.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

I am just trying to get a snapshot of

who gets the money there.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Can do.

CHAIR:

Just a note, anything that is requested

by one member, we share with the other members also.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, that is great.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Under the provincial revenue, I am

wondering about the supports for young families and the drafting of an

immigration policy. I am looking at

something that was in CBC back in January when Dunderdale said that Reid's focus

will include providing supports for young families.

When will we see

an immigration strategy? Is that

something that your department is working on right now?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, it should be done a new plan

probably within the next six months or so; roundabout.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, thank you.

On the Provincial

Nominee Program, will the Province be increasing the quota?

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is up to the feds.

That is what I am in negotiations with Minister Chris Alexander on now.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, thank you.

CHAIR:

Ms Dempster, I am going to let you go

to 4.1.11 to finish that off and then back to Ms Michael.

MS DEMPSTER:

Finish off that page?

CHAIR:

Yes, if you could.

If that is fine with Ms Michael?

MS MICHAEL:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, thank you.

I have a question,

but it is probably back to streamlining because no salaries are budgeted here

this year.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, that is because the LAMPPS system

is being completed and implemented.

So they have gone back to their original positions.

They were seconded.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, thank you.

The Professional

Services was overspent by $400,000 last t year.

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is because the project work which

was originally scheduled for April, May 2014 was actually completed in

2013-2014, so we are ahead of schedule.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

You do not see that often.

So that is why the number was reduced so dramatically.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Absolutely.

CHAIR:

Ms Michael.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you.

I just have a

couple of questions under 4.1.10; they are not line items.

I am wondering where we are right now, Minister, with regard to the

retention rate, with regard to immigrants?

Do we figure that out on an annual basis, the retention rate?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, we do evaluate I do not have any

numbers here right now, but actually the number of people who are remaining in

Newfoundland and Labrador has been increasing as well.

We have a fair number of supports out there in regard to community

supports and making people welcome, reactive to their needs and all that kind of

stuff is playing a big role in that.

I can probably

have a look at that and just see exactly there the numbers are compared to the

838 and the 731 because at one point in time, as you would know, especially in

my world in regard to MDs, they came, they practiced for a year or so and then

they went off to another community, mainly the bigger centers because that is

where their culture was located. We

are having better success there now as well.

I can give you some numbers on that later.

MS MICHAEL:

I am just wondering I do not know if

anybody actually in the group would know this how long a period of time is

allowed to make the determination by retention? Is it like you have been here

six months or a year? Does anybody

know?

MR. O'BRIEN:

I would take actually a couple of

years.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, that is what I was curious about.

MR. O'BRIEN:

From my past, I would take that as

personal, because I have recruited enough docs over the years.

MS MICHAEL:

If that could be indicated in the

statistic, what the period of time is that is being judged.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, we can get that for you.

MS MICHAEL:

Great.

That is all I have

under

section 4; I just add that question.

CHAIR:

Okay, perfect.

I am going to ask

for a motion to adopt sections 4.1.01 to 4.1.11 all inclusive.

Moved by Mr.

Pollard; seconded by Ms Perry.

All those in

favour signify by saying, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

Opposed, nay'.

Motion carried.

On motion,

subheads 4.1.01 through 4.1.11 carried.

CHAIR:

Ms Michael, we are going to start and

move you into post-secondary education.

I would just want to note timing wise, and I only say that because I know

there are some important questions you may want to get to, and I only say that

because the

schedule right now is fairly tight between now and the break for

Easter, we may not be able to reconvene.

If there is a

pertinent question you may want to get to first and then if time allows, fair

enough.

Ms Michael.

MS MICHAEL:

I personally have to leave the room at

11:45 a.m., so it is even more pressure on me.

Thank you very much.

Under 5.1.02

MR. O'BRIEN:

Subhead 5.1.01?

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, 5.2.01 I have two sets of

questions. That is why I get

confused.

I do not think I

have questions under salary; I know what that is.

With regard to Grants and Subsidies, $1.8 million was not disbursed last

year. Why was that?

MR. O'BRIEN:

That was the Journeyperson Mentorship

Program. The uptake on that is not

what we anticipated; there are challenges within that program itself.

We have allocated $600,000, if I remember right, towards that program,

which will support it as we go forward but we need to evaluate it.

What is happening is a lot of the journeypersons that we would actually

support in regard to financial support, to support our apprenticeships, are

actually working; or you have the other challenge that you might have a

journeyperson who would be available to mentor but lives in Ramea, but the job

opportunities and the employer is in Corner Brook.

Then you have to move the person from Ramea, which they do not want to

do.

We have to

re-evaluate the program to see if we can make it more effective to the

requirements. So, we are going to

take a year and have a look at it and then maybe go back at it again in a

different way.

MS MICHAEL:

From what you said earlier around

journeypersons, it seems like we are getting more people journeyed in the

Province, not having to leave the Province, from the numbers that you gave

earlier.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Oh, absolutely definitely.

MS MICHAEL:

The more we can do, the better it is

obviously.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Absolutely.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you very much.

Under revenue, the

federal revenue has dropped in that section; $380,000, I think.

MR. O'BRIEN:

It is gone down by $380,000 and that is

funding from the LMA and the LMDA for the Apprenticeship Wage Subsidy as per the

federal agreement. The LMDA is $4

million and the LMA is $2.6 million.

MS MICHAEL:

I think that is all I have under

5.1.01. Subhead 5.1.02 and once

again it is related to Grants and Subsidies.

Now here we have the Literacy and Institutional Services, which is pretty

important, but I notice that there has been a big drop in the Grants and

Subsidies here; $1.1 million was not disbursed under Grants and Subsidies.

Now, you are maintaining the same amount for this year, which is good,

but what happened there?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Okay, well the timelines for the

project start and approval played a factor in the savings of $400,000 under the

foreign qualifications grant funding, which is a national program in regard to

foreign qualifications. I think you

are familiar with that in regard to somebody coming into Newfoundland and

Labrador within the country and verifying their qualifications to coincide with

our own qualifications.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. O'BRIEN:

As well, the ABE program, the uptake is

slightly less than what we anticipated, but we served any of the clients who

came forward. We are also having a

look at that program to see if we can push it out to even more remote areas in

Newfoundland and Labrador, either by distance or whatever we can do to enable

people to avail of the service.

MS MICHAEL:

Was there going to be any evaluation of

the fact that ABE has been, I believe, to a degree, moved out of the community

with the changes that have been made, and were the decisions around ABE

partially the reason that you are seeing not as great an uptake?

I would like to see an evaluation of that.

MR. O'BRIEN:

The ABE program is now offered in all

the communities that it was previously, under the contract, servicing.

Now what we are looking at are areas in the Province that had never, ever

had an ABE program. That is what we

are looking at, and certainly partnering with community-based organizations to

deliver that if we possibly can.

Right now, the program is costing us less, so now we have a little bit more

flexibility to offer and to push it out to the more remote areas of the

Province. So it is a benefit that

way.

MS MICHAEL:

I am still curious about why there was

a smaller uptake in the places where it already is.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, I can sort of speculate.

I am not sure if we can give you absolute data that would give you the

answer, but the reason is that a fair number of the people who probably would

have availed of ABE program under a stagnant economy are now working under a

robust economy and making good money.

So now we have to try to get them to move from a robust economy a

labourer now out in Gander is making good money in regard to building homes.

That is the challenge we have.

We continue to

promote the program and the benefits of it in the long term.

Certainly, yes, you can make some money now when you have a robust

economy, but if you ever have a downturn then you have nothing to fall back on

other than you are a labourer. We

have to try to get the people to move forward, avail of that particular program,

and then go on into a skilled trade.

It is all about promotion, advertising, and whatnot.

I can try to get

you some data, but it is really hard.

The simple reason is the particular person who might go to an ABE program

is actually working. They are not

available to come.

MS MICHAEL:

I look forward to some data.

Thank you.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, I will try.

It is difficult. I want to

warn it is difficult because it is all demand driven.

We just cannot go in and say to a person who is on a job site: How come

you did not do the ABE program? I

know what the answer is going to be: Because I am working.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Under federal

revenue, we only got $15,000 of what was anticipated.

What is that about?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Are you under 5.1.02, federal revenue?

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, federal revenue.

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is the foreign qualifications

grant funding for this year. It has

been adjusted to reflect the amount of funding spent under the project, and that

is the qualification one. That is

moving forward now, but it was a little bit slow in regard to that.

That was the anticipated cost, but we anticipate to take up the full

amount this year coming.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

I have no more

questions under that and I do not have any questions under 5.1.03.

CHAIR:

You can keep going for another few

minutes, and then we will come back and you can finish off.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, great.

I do not have

anything under 5.1.04, I do not think.

Subhead 5.2.02,

Physical Plant and Equipment for Memorial University, can I have just an update

on where things are because obviously the amount of money being spent has gone

down a fair bit. All I am asking

for is an update on what is happening there.

MR. O'BRIEN:

The new residence, as you know, is

complete down at MUN and a new residence over in Grenfell is done.

We have about $19 million budgeted for various grants to renovate the

existing older residences in St. John's and in Corner Brook.

You have some deferred maintenance and that kind of stuff.

You have equipment and renovations and then you have the science labs

upgrades as well, which is a cash adjustment, giving a total of $19,389,000.

We just do not need as much money in capital any more, for that

particular project.

MS MICHAEL:

I have to say I am really glad to hear

about the labs.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, it is really good.

MS MICHAEL:

Desperately needed.

Under 5.3.01,

again my questions have to do with Grants and Subsidies because there is a big

drop here in the revision, though it is gone back up to $85 million.

MR. O'BRIEN:

This is to support the tuition freeze

at the college, along with your 2 per cent salary increases.

You have a shift standby deferential at the college, and there is $1.5

million to support the college in offering programing with regard to high demand

labour areas.

MS MICHAEL:

What was the reason for the revision

down by over $5 million?

MR. O'BRIEN:

It would be in

MS MICHAEL:

In Grants and Subsidies in last year's

budget.

MR. O'BRIEN:

There were savings due to lower than

anticipated LMDA sponsor students.

They are actually demand driven too.

As you know, there are a fair number of students who avail of the federal

programming, so there is a lower number this year.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

I am assuming then

that would also explain the dip in the federal revenue.

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is correct.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, those two things put together.

I think they are

all the questions up to 5.3.02. I

do not really have any more questions, Mr. Chair, you will be very happy to

hear.

CHAIR:

For that whole section?

MS MICHAEL:

For that whole section, yes.

CHAIR:

Sounds great.

Ms Dempster, you

have some extra time. Ms Michael, if you need to go back, if something pops up,

please just let me know.

MS MICHAEL:

If something comes to me, yes.

Thank you.

MS DEMPSTER:

Thank you.

Under 5.1.01, just

a couple of general questions here, Minister.

Budget 2014, $5.2 million was announced to support apprenticeship and

trades to develop new approaches for educational upgrading and employment

supports. I am just wondering if

you could tell us a little bit about that and what they are.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Just repeat the question again.

I thought you were going to a line.

I missed part of it.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, no problem.

I wanted to see if you are still awake.

I am only kidding.

Budget 2014, $5.2

million to support the apprenticeships and trades, and it talked about new

approaches for educational upgrading and employment supports.

I would just like to know a little bit more about that because that is a

huge issue.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, that would be under the

labour market training as well,

right?

MS DEMPSTER:

Is there a specific plan for that $5

million? We all will certainly

agree the need is there when it comes to the apprenticeship area.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

It is just to support the apprenticeships, the people who are training up

to meet the labour market demand over a number of programs.

They are supported both on the federal side in regard to the LMDA and the

LMA, the labour market adjustment wage subsidy program, and as part of our

funding to support all of those programs.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Now, I hear that,

but in the Budget it said new approaches, so that was why I asked that.

I wanted to just educate myself on it.

OFFICIAL:

Some of that might be with the new

approach with journeypersons, too.

MR. O'BRIEN:

In our new approach in regard to the

journeypersons as well, just to give you an example, how we are adjusting the

journeyperson program, attaching apprenticeships to the journeyperson, and all

that kind of good stuff. We have a

lot of things moving in the department that have not been totally fleshed out

yet, but we feel we require that money because it is really important, as you

just said yourself, in regard to supporting those apprenticeship people.

As I said earlier

today, as well, we are becoming a lot more flexible in regard to our policies

surrounding all of our programs to make it work for the people.

We are getting to a point now where if our policy is too stringent and

too strict then we cannot address the needs of the person, the client, who is

contacting us.

MS DEMPSTER:

Absolutely, yes, because it is no good

to be too black and white when there is an awful lot of grey out there.

MR. O'BRIEN:

That is right, exactly.

MS DEMPSTER:

Budget 2014 also mentioned the 9,100

person years of employment at Muskrat Falls.

I would love to know what the provision is there for apprentices.

Will we have any idea of that 9,100 person years how many apprentices

will be taken care of?

MR. O'BRIEN:

I can have a look.

That is not within my department, but there are a fair number of

apprentices who will be employed at peak in regard to Muskrat Falls.

We are hoping a fair number of them will be over in Lab West as well.

There is a great demand in regard to our apprenticeships right now in the

Province and people who would train up for it but I will try to endeavor to get

a number for you.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, because I look back to the two

decades I spent in this area. On

the one hand we are talking about the 70,000 skilled shortages and the demand

for trades you would sit in a movie and it would be playing then on the flip

side, everyone we were putting through the trades were coming back: I can't get

a job, I have no experience; I have no experience, I can't get a job.

It is a challenging area but it is one we have to really continue to try

to sink our teeth into.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, and that is certainly the reason

why we have our focus in that area.

It is to make it more flexible where those people can get jobs in Newfoundland

and Labrador, and make it more attractive to the employer to employ.

That is the kind of things we are doing within the department.

You not only work with the individual, you have to work with the employer

too.

MS DEMPSTER:

A lot of times, Minister, with the

bigger companies they do not want to mess about with the paperwork.

So on one hand it is wonderful we have programs there but then they are

not engaging in them.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

I think reducing the red tape as much

as we can is certainly a move in the right direction.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Absolutely.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, thank you.

Moving on to

5.1.02 Literacy; I was reading some of this on the flight last night, some of

the contracts ending now.

Will you be

getting an annual report on the private training, the corporations that are

delivering, and if so, can we I would like to have a look at that as well.

MR. O'BRIEN:

We sure can, we will give you the

results.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Are these

contracts going to automatically be renewed April 1?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, they are.

MS DEMPSTER:

They are.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Yes, a continuation.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN:

Like I said, we are going to start

looking at being more flexible and moving into some of the remote areas of the

Province as well and see can we actually penetrate that area.

So that gives us the opportunity in regard to the changes we made to

actually go after that new market that I consider because you will bottom out in

regard to ABE students if you just keep continuing to offer it only in the same

places.

MS DEMPSTER:

I agree with that, absolutely.

MR. O'BRIEN:

You have to go; you have to move the

tar a bit.

MS DEMPSTER:

In the Speech from the Throne this is

just a general question I had again an adult literacy plan was mentioned.

What is the timeline on that?

MR. O'BRIEN:

Within probably the next six months,

maybe