May 15, 2007 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 13

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

This afternoon we are very pleased to welcome forty-nine Grade 6 students

from Villa Nova Junior High School in Manuels, Conception Bay South. They live

in the District of Topsail. We also want to welcome their teachers, Ms Darlene

Moulton and Ms Faye Noseworthy.

Welcome to the House of Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we have members' statements as follows: the

hon the Member for the District of Twillingate & Fogo; the hon. the Member

for the District of Windsor-Springdale; the hon. the Member for the District of

Bellevue; the hon. the Member for the District of Trinity-Bay de Verde; the hon.

the Member for the District of Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune; and, the hon. the

Member for the District of Exploits.

The Chair recognizes the Member for the District of Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to recognize a young lady in my district who was just awarded

the Dr. Warren and Catherine Ball Memorial Entrance Scholarship for $30,000.

Jasmine Compton is the daughter of Valerie and Herbert Compton of Twillingate,

and is a student at J.M. Olds Collegiate in that town. Jasmine obtained a 98.8

per cent average on the six Level III courses submitted for this Scholarship.

Such an achievement is not realized without a tremendous amount of hard work and

dedication.

In the fall, Jasmine will be attending Memorial University, where she plans

to do a commerce degree, and once that is complete she plans to go on to do a

degree in commercial law.

Mr. Speaker, I had the opportunity to meet with Jasmine on Friday night at

her graduation at J.M. Olds Collegiate where she was the valedictorian. I can

honestly say that Jasmine's personality and demeanor certainly match her

academic achievements.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all Members of the House of Assembly to join with me in

extending to Jasmine our sincere congratulations on this achievement, and to

wish her the very best in all of her future endeavours.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Windsor-Springdale.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUNTER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, hon. colleagues, I rise before this House today to congratulate

Indian River High student Alycia Edison on being selected for entry into

Memorial University of Newfoundland's HORIZONS Program.

The HORIZONS Program is a Fry Family Foundation Junior Leadership Award. This

award is given to applicants who wish to develop their community involvement and

leadership ability and are going to enter into post-secondary studies at

Memorial University.

Alycia receives a $200 cash award in the summer of 2007 and a $1,000 award

when she enters Memorial University. She will also attend several Province-wide

leadership events starting in Level I and then into her adventure at Memorial

University.

My hon. colleagues, please join with me in congratulating Alycia Edison on

her outstanding performance, and also the teachers and staff of Indian River

High for a job well done.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to extend

congratulations to North Atlantic Refinery, who recently was named Newfoundland

and Labrador's 2007 Exporter of the Year and NOIA's Community Champion.

With exports in excess of $2 billion each year, North Atlantic beat out

fifty-five other companies nominated for the 2007 Newfoundland and Labrador

Exporter of the Year Award.

Mr. Speaker, a little over one month later, North Atlantic received the

Community Champion Award at NOIA's thirtieth anniversary dinner. Just last

year the company was named one of Canada's top employers.

The Exporter of the Year, North Atlantic, puts back approximately $250,000

into the local economy each year through donations and sponsorships. They formed

the Community Giving Program in February 1998 and, since then, Community Giving

has supported local non-profit organizations with more than $2 million in

donations and sponsorship.

Mr. Speaker, North Atlantic fuels exceed all United States clean fuel

regulations. The company pumps about $140 million annually back into the

provincial economy. With 70 per cent of the workforce living within a fifty

kilometre radius of the refinery, it is a boost to the rural economy.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of the House to join with me in extending

congratulations to North Atlantic Refinery who has been awarded with the

Newfoundland and Labrador Exporter of the Year for 2007 and NOIA's Community

Champion.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity-Bay de Verde.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to extend congratulations to Cheryl Ash, a constituent of

mine from Hant's Harbour who was chosen by Keyin College, Carbonear Campus as

the recipient of a scholarship and the John Champion Award at her graduation on

April 20.

Mr. Speaker, this award is presented to people who are deemed to represent

the ideals of John Champion, who was a devoted family man, an avid outdoorsman

and a respected community member that helped with the establishment of the

College.

Mr. Speaker, Cheryl certainly personifies many of the qualities attributed to

this award. She is a very active school council member with Perlwin Elementary,

Baccalieu Collegiate and Keyin College. She is an assistant coach with the

community youth cross country running club, a member of the United Church Women

(UCW) and the Hant's Harbour Recreation.

While I will not tell her age, Cheryl, after twenty years, has returned back

to school. She is a true inspiration to adults and a role model for our youth.

She has received her Home Support Worker Diploma, graduating with honours at a

97.3 per cent average, which clearly demonstrates her determination and drive to

succeed.

Mr. Speaker, I ask that all hon. members join with me in congratulating

Cheryl Ash on this recent achievement.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to recognize and honour Marie Penny,

who is to be inducted into the Junior Achievement Business Hall of Fame at the

St. John's Convention Centre on May 24.

Marie Penny took control of John Penny & Sons in 1949 and was known as

"Queen of the Fishing Fleet' for her ability to manage such a fast

growing business. She was vibrant, energetic and well respected among her peers

and within the town of Ramea.

For example, in 1957 she was selected to dine with Queen Elizabeth and Prince

Philip in Ottawa. Later in her career she became the first female president of

the Fisheries Council of Canada. She was also named an honourary princess of the

Capilano Indian Band. Such recognition keeps her memory alive as a remarkable

woman who did very well in a highly competitive industry. Even though she passed

away in 1970, today Marie Penny is still fondly remembered in Ramea.

Mr. Speaker, Marie Penny ran the family business successfully, like her

husband, her father and grandfather had done, but her heirs were not able to

keep the business in increasingly difficult times.

Today, the house that was her home is a tourist home and is the largest and

most impressive home in Ramea. It is set in a lawn that is as large as half a

dozen ordinary housing lots. It is comfortably furnished in a style that makes

one think of the homes of rural gentry in the England of Agatha Christie movies.

Portraits of various past Penny's look down from the wall. Inside and out, the

building looks like a manor house. There are surely very few other houses in

Newfoundland and Labrador that have such distinct servants quarters.

Mr. Speaker, this lady deserves to be remembered with admiration and

affection and I ask all members of this House to join me in recognizing the

accomplishments of Marie S. Penny and her induction into the Junior Achievements

Business Hall of Fame.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Exploits.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FORSEY: Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure today to stand in

this House to congratulate five volunteer firefighters from the Peterview

Volunteer Fire Department for being selected as recipients of the plaques of

commendation for their participation in the rescue efforts during the tragic

drownings in Peterview on March 18, 2006.

Mr. Speaker, this tragic event occurred on Saturday evening, March 18, 2006,

when three snowmobiles carrying four people went through the ice at Gills Point

between Peterview and Norris Arm. That night three lives were lost. The

conditions were treacherous, the ice was thin, the water was cold and even in

the darkness these firefighters made a final rescue attempt without fear for

their own lives.

Mr. Speaker, this past week the Newfoundland and Labrador Association of Fire

Chiefs and Firefighters notified the Peterview Fire Department that the

following have been selected to receive the commendations. They are: Darius

Brenton, Derrick Sheppard, Wallace Sheppard, Robert Taylor, and Chris Torraville.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join me in congratulating

these five heroic firefighters on this prestigious award.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to rise in this House today and announce an

exciting initiative being undertaken by the Public Service Commission.

Over the past four years, our government has strategically invested to create

jobs not just within the public service, but to foster the economic

diversification necessary to see job creation in the private sector as well.

While we still face challenges, we also know that labour force statistics for

our Province are better than they have been in decades.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased today to announce the Public Service Commission

will be hosting Career Expos in St. John's, Corner Brook, Gander and Happy

Valley-Goose Bay. The St. John's event will be held on May 29, and the other

three locations will host Expos on May 31.

These events will highlight the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

Public Service as an employer of choice.

Mr. Speaker, these are the people in our Province who work hard to

co-ordinate a booming tourism industry. They plow our roads and ensure they are

safe for driving. They manage our forests and facilitate mining opportunities.

They are there for all of life's big moments - issuing birth certificates,

driver's licences and, yes, even collecting our taxes.

They keep our communities safe, save lives each and every day, and care for

our seniors. They educate our children and lay the groundwork for lifelong

success. These are just some of the many career choices that exist right here,

right now, in our Public Service.

The Career Expo will provide important information including details on the

hiring process, current and anticipated opportunities, employee benefits, types

of occupations, position qualifications, and salary ranges.

Mr. Speaker, what better time than now when government will be recruiting

more than 1,000 people in the Public Service this year. This is in addition to

the more than 5,700 person years of employment that will be created as a result

of our investment into our infrastructure strategy.

We all know that there are labour shortages elsewhere in the country, but we

also know there are exciting opportunities right here at home.

Our competitors use these types of events to attract the skills and talent

necessary for effective program and service delivery. In today's competitive

global environment, this government intends to keep pace.

Mr. Speaker, a proactive and positive measure, this Career Expo was conceived

to support our government's strategic human resource planning and will allow

us to strengthen an already dynamic and very skilled Public Service. I am

especially proud to note that this type of event is unprecedented within the

provincial government.

Mr. Speaker, I invite all residents of Newfoundland and Labrador to watch for

details of the events in the days to come, and encourage all who are interested

in opportunities with the Provincial Public Service to participate in our Career

Expo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the Premier for an advance copy of his statement, but I

just wonder if he sees the irony and the hypocrisy in his words, because I am

sure they are not lost on the civil service of this Province.

The Premier who stands today and praises the work of the civil service is the

same Premier, I say, Mr. Speaker, who slashed hundreds, if not thousands, of

civil service jobs in the first year of his mandate, including 500 teachers in

the fist two years of his mandate that he showed the door.

The same Premier, I say, Mr. Speaker, who closed courthouses and social

services offices and told those who worked there to go home. Mr. Speaker, the

same Premier who turned year-round highway depots into seasonal depots, without

any regard for what that did to the individuals and the families of those

individuals who worked for those depots. The same Premier who promised never to

legislate civil service workers back to work did it in the first year of his

mandate, and made them suffer through a two-year wage freeze. What hypocrisy,

Mr. Speaker! What hypocrisy!

I am glad to see that he did make note of some of the things that the

civil service do, and it must be something that is in their psyche, because here

is what they do: They issue birth certificates, they issue driver's licences,

and they collect our taxes.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's allotted has expired.

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I say, they raised every single one of these fees

(inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has recognized -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Colleagues -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has recognized the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Needless to say, I am very happy to see this kind of announcement, and I

thank the Premier for the advance copy, but I would like to point out the 1,000

jobs, I am well aware, are much needed jobs in the Public Service.

One of the things that struck me during the Estimates discussions was the

many positions that had not been filled last year and that this year are going

to filled in various departments. I hope that some of these are those positions.

The one thing I would encourage the Premier to have his eye to is that, in

these Expos, equal opportunities are visually shown for women so that women will

see some of the higher paying -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's allotted time has expired.

MS MICHAEL: Leave, please, Mr. Speaker?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave is granted.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I really would encourage the Premier to see that, in these Expos, women and

other under-represented groups will see themselves in the jobs that are being

advertised in the Expos; that visually they will see women doing work that has

been male-dominated work; that women will see themselves, young women in

particular, as being able to do work that will be the higher paying work, not

just behind a counter but on the machines that do the snow plowing, et cetera.

Then, perhaps, I will be a little bit happy with these Expos if I see that kind

of material, both in the written information and in the visuals.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to inform hon. members of the recent

publication of the second edition of Diversity ~ Opportunity and Growth ,

Profiles of Immigrant Entrepreneurs in Newfoundland and Labrador. This magazine

highlights the significant contribution being made by twenty immigrant

entrepreneurs who have established businesses in our Province.

I am quite confident that there are many more successes stories like these to

come, now that government's $6 million immigration strategy is in place. Diversity

~ Opportunity and Growth will help significantly increase the attraction and

retention of immigrants to our Province.

Implementation of the strategy begins with the establishment of the Office of

Immigration and Multiculturalism. This office will lead efforts to promote the

Province to prospective immigrants and implement measures to retain them so that

more business-minded individuals and skilled workers come to our Province and

settle here.

The new immigration strategy includes targets to triple the number of

immigrants from the current number of 450 per year and double the retention rate

from 36 per cent to 70 per cent within five years.

The strategy is clearly needed, given changes in the makeup of our

population. We need people if we are to grow our Province, attract investment

and address rapidly emerging skill shortages in our economy. Increased

immigration is one vital part of the solution.

Immigrants bring new thinking, innovation and creativity to directly benefit

our local economies. The twenty creative individuals featured in this magazine

account for over 350 jobs in our Province. That is a ratio of nearly twenty jobs

for each immigrant entrepreneur. It is in this Province's interest to attract

more immigrant entrepreneurs and employ more of our residents.

Immigrants offer a wealth of connections to the global marketplace and can

open doors for Newfoundland and Labrador business. Immigrants also bring their

culture, their food, their music and their art, all of which enriches a shared

experience for residents of our Province.

I encourage all hon. members to read the stories of these individuals who

live in and run businesses in urban as well as many rural communities throughout

Newfoundland and Labrador. They are helping make our Province a more prosperous

place.

I am pleased to stand here today and acknowledge in this House their effort,

their commitment and their drive. I would encourage all hon. members to join me

in doing this.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement, and to say

that at this point in time I have not had the opportunity to read that

publication about those twenty entrepreneurs, but I am sure, Mr. Speaker, I will

get that opportunity.

I want to say that I think it is wonderful to bring more people into our

Province to help create jobs. I know in my area there are quite a few who have

moved to our Province and have been able to create jobs for many of our

residents in that area. Mr. Speaker, even though this is a good initiative, and

I have to say that no doubt many people who will be coming to our Province may

not be of the calibre who will be starting up businesses, some of them may not

be skilled workers. All I hope is that the supports will be made available for

those who will not be able to do that, so that they will be able to stay in our

Province and not join the long lineups that will have to move out shortly after

they arrive, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS MICHAEL: Thank you Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement. I would like to

congratulate the individuals recognized in the magazine quoted, though I, too,

have not had a chance to read this yet and I look forward to reading it.

As a first generation descendant of an immigrant family of entrepreneurs, I

fully understand the contribution that immigrant people can bring to our

country. However, I do hope that we are going to support all immigrants who come

to our door in the same way that we are speaking of entrepreneurs here today,

because we need to see the immigrants come on their own demand. So if we have

professionals, for example, like doctors who come here, I hope that our

immigration plan is going to help them with accreditation because I have met too

many doctors who are here in St. John's and have had to leave because they

cannot work in their field.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's allotted time has expired.

MS MICHAEL: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave is granted.

MS MICHAEL: So there are many barriers for professionals who come into

our country and even though they might meet those barriers elsewhere in Canada,

I hope that here in Newfoundland and Labrador we find ways to work with the

accreditation issue. That is one.

The other one of course is the immigrants who come and make a place for

themselves and because they have claimed refugee status, get refused and find

themselves in sanctuary in this Province, and we still have that situation.

I would encourage the minister to continue working on those issues with the

same passion that he seems to have in this statement for entrepreneurs.

Thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it has now been over a month and a half since fish harvesters

and plant workers have been able to return to work along the Northeast Coast in

Labrador because of severe ice conditions. We all know that our Fisheries

Minister, our current Fisheries Minister, forgot to mention a need for an EI

extension for those affected individuals when he met with Minister Hearn in

Ottawa last Sunday.

I ask the minister today: What discussions have you had with your federal

counterpart since that meeting last Sunday pertaining to this very serious

issue?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I never forget to mention anything to the

federal minister when I have an opportunity to meet with him. I met with him in

Ottawa, I guess a week Sunday past, on a very specific matter; a very specific

matter important to a lot of people in a lot of communities in Newfoundland and

Labrador. We discussed that matter and we continue to discuss that matter.

On the matter of ice conditions along the Northeast Coast and the Coast of

Labrador in particular, Mr. Speaker, that matter has been raised with the

federal minister on numerous occasions by numerous people. It has been raised at

the ministerial level, it has been raised at the officials level, it has been

raised with the Minister Responsible for EI, it has been raised by the Leader of

the Opposition, by members on this side of the House, by the President of the

FFAW, by numerous people. So it is not an issue that is relative to the

government alone. It is one that we all have a role to play and keep in front of

the minister, and we have all done that and will continue to do it, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the minister, you missed a golden opportunity to, at least, bring it

to his face when you met with him in Ottawa last week. Unfortunately, you forgot

to do that.

My question is for the Premier, Mr. Speaker.

Environment Canada is now saying that these ice conditions could last for

another month. Hundreds, if not thousands, of people have now been without a

source of income for well over a month, yet we hear nothing from this

government. Surely, there are members opposite, just like there are members over

here, who hear on a daily basis the cry from their constituents, but yet they

remain silent.

I ask the Premier: Will you step in to help these fisherpeople who are in

such a bad need right now?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, let me repeat once again. I missed no

opportunity to raise anything with anybody. People on this side of the House,

including myself, including hon. ministers, including members who have

constituents affected by this matter, raise it all the time at every chance we

get at the ministerial level, at officials level with the appropriate minister,

including the minister representing the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

press our federal colleagues on it.

controls billions of dollars of surplus in the EI fund. It is the Government of

Canada who has the opportunity to do something to help the people who are

affected by this and those people will have our 100 per cent full support in

trying to make that happen.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Obviously, the Premier is not concerned. He would not even answer the

question I asked him.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, the Premier has been willing to go it alone on a

number of projects and that he has even gone so far as to say we do not need the

federal government to do these projects.

I ask the Premier: What is it that you do not understand about the people who

live in rural Newfoundland and Labrador? They are in a desperate need of help.

Some of them have been without an income, they and their families, for well over

a month now. I know that is hard for you to understand, but I want to know: Why

are you sitting idly by and watching the federal government do nothing

whatsoever to help these people and help them with their plight? When are you

going to step in and try to do something for these individuals, I say to the

Premier?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, if there isn't a movement out there to bring

Jim Bennett back, for God's sake, will somebody start one!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, how low can you go to suggest that the Premier

does not understand? How low can you go?

The people out there in rural Newfoundland and Labrador, who are struggling,

appreciate the fact that we have a man leading the government of this Province

who understands their plight.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, that is why this man and his approval rating is

in the stratosphere and they are below the surface of the earth.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the minister and I say it to the Premier, if you had more interest

in the plight of rural Newfoundlanders and Labradorians as you do in political

polls, something might be done to help those individuals who are in such dire

straits today, I say to the minister.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair asks for the co-operation of all members.

The Chair recognizes the Leader of the Opposition, who is about to put his

question.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Last week the Minister of Fisheries stated: No deal on the sale of FPI would

take place unless the provincial government had unfettered access to the quotas.

Yesterday, he reiterated that statement in the House of Assembly. However, as

media reported again yesterday, the minister's position now appears to have

moved from having unfettered control of the quotas to having fettered access to

these quotas.

I ask the minister: What is your government's position today? What is your

position here and what is it going to be when you walk outside the House?

Because you have two very different positions on a daily basis. Are we going to

have outright ownership of those quotas if a sale takes place of FPI?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I was born and grew up in Fleur de Lys, on the

headland of White Bay. I will take no lessons from the Leader of the Opposition

when it comes to rural Newfoundland.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: I need know no lectures, Mr. Speaker, from the Leader of the

Opposition when it comes to understanding clawing and scratching your way

through survival in rural Newfoundland. None, Mr. Speaker. None do I want and

none will I take, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: In terms of the question on fisheries, the answer is the

same today as it was yesterday, as it was the day before, as it will be

tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the minister that he has no monopoly on poverty, and if he did think

a lot about the people he represented and the people on the Baie Verte Peninsula

and every other peninsula north of the Bonavista Peninsula, you would be doing

something more than yelling and screaming and talking about political polls. You

would be doing something to help those individuals.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, it is our understanding that there was a Cabinet

meeting supposed to be scheduled for last evening to discuss the new proposal

that would see OCI purchase FPI's primary processing assets.

I ask the minister: Did the meeting take place, and was the decision made as

to whether the government was willing to accept the proposal for the sale of FPI?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I do not know what kind of poverty the hon.

gentleman is talking about. I do not know if it was intellectual poverty or

whatever it was; but, Mr. Speaker, I do not intent to stand in this House, as a

minister, and confirm whether Cabinet meetings took place or whether they did

not, talk about the agenda or confirm the agenda, what was on it or what was not

on it.

Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman served in Cabinet for a while. I do not

suppose he will ever see the inside of the Cabinet room again, unless he is

invited to make a presentation, but he knows that the Cabinet agenda, the

discussion of Cabinet, is not public knowledge, and I have no intention, Mr.

Speaker, of disclosing to this House or anybody when Cabinet meets and what

Cabinet discusses.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.

MR. BALL: Mr. Speaker, alarming news has come to light in recent years

about the false testing results involving breast screening in the Eastern Health

district. In recent days the news has become even more disturbing, as it has

been exposed that close to 50 per cent of those tested positive for this disease

had been given false information that prevented them from receiving the

appropriate life-saving treatment.

I ask the minister: Has his department carried out any independent inquiries

and investigations into this shocking matter from a departmental level, or

external inquiries from the findings already uncovered by the Eastern Health

Authority? If so, is the minister prepared to release those results?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, we fully understand and fully appreciate the

anxiety that has been created for many individuals and families in this Province

as a result of the test results that came about as a result of some, I guess,

false negatives that occurred over a period of about five years. That was a very

unfortunate set of circumstances.

One of the things that has happened as a result of that, there were some

900-and-some-odd tests repeated last year. As a result of those repeat tests,

there were about 117 or so women who had their course of treatment changed as a

result of the new test results.

On the bigger picture that he has raised with respect to the future and with

respect to an investigation or analysis, there was a complete review done of

that program and service. What has happened: at the time that surfaced, a halt

was put in place. No further tests were done until very recently. That area has

now reopened. We now have a dedicated lab of dedicated technologists, dedicated

pathologists, a Centre of Excellence with pathologists and oncologists providing

that support to that particular program. We now have a quality assurance program

in place that ensures there is an ongoing monitoring program to ensure that does

not happen again in the future.

We have put in place some really strong, I say, Mr. Speaker, some very

stringent and some very strong requirements to ensure quality, some additional

training for the technologists and the pathologists working in that area, and

pooled the resources we have in the Province in the creation of the Centre of

Excellence. So, on a go-forward basis, the women of Newfoundland and Labrador

can be assured -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Humber Valley.

MR. BALL: Like I said, it was a long answer to the independent inquiries.

Recently, news stories indicated that Eastern Health has been aware of these

erroneous results for several years. In fact, the Canadian Cancer Society has

indicated they have been lobbying for quite some time for the information

related to the tests; really, since 2005.

I ask the minister: How long did you and your department have the results of

these re-tests, and when were the women involved notified of the errors?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As I understand it, the 900-and-some-odd tests that were redone last year,

there were some 300-and-some-odd of those, just a little over 300 of those

tests, that were found to be inaccurate. That information was available to

Eastern Health last year. That information was available to Eastern Health and

to the department last year.

In December of 2006, Eastern Health held a techno-briefing where they

provided information to the media and to the general public on the whole issue

of the history, the chronology, of what actually took place, so there was an

understanding of the period of time involved when these test results were

inaccurate, what the response had been up to that particular point, what the

re-testing had actually disclosed. So, Eastern Health provided that kind of

briefing in December of 2006, I say, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.

MR. BALL: Mr. Speaker, I was actually more concerned about when the women

were notified about this problem.

While this problem may extend beyond our own boundaries, women in our

Province are gravely affected by the very serious error in testing. In fact, the

307 women whom the minister spoke about in our Province were provided with the

wrong results, and 104 of these now require different treatment.

I ask the minister: Has the equipment used to test the hormone receptor been

replaced? If not, is it tested on a regular basis to ensure the results now

provided are accurate, and are trustworthy so that public confidence is restored

in our health care system?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: I think, Mr. Speaker, if the member will refer to the first

answer I gave him, in terms of the response and what has happened since then, I

have given the member here, and I give the people of Newfoundland and Labrador a

reassurance that new protocols are, in fact, in place. We do have a new quality

assurance program. We do have a dedicated lab dealing with this issue, these

tests. We do have a Centre of Excellence created where we pool the expertise we

have in pathology and oncology, and the technologists who work in the labs have

come together to create that pool of resources that we need to truly call

ourselves as having a Centre of Excellence to deal with breast cancer testing in

this Province.

We want to provide some comfort to the women of Newfoundland and Labrador

that the tests that they are getting done today have been subjected to a very

rigorous quality assurance program. They should be assured that what happened

last year, or what had happened over a period of about five years, should not

repeat itself in Newfoundland and Labrador again.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.

MR. BALL: As we all know, Mr. Speaker, our Province's population is

aging. With an older population comes a need for improved and expanded services

to address the challenges. Home support workers increasing play a more

significant role in our health care system. In addition to providing cost-saving

services to patients discharged from hospitals, they also provide support to

people living with disabilities. Unfortunately, Budget 2007 failed to recognize

the valuable contribution and the struggles of these workers who face low wages,

increased responsibility and who work under stressful conditions.

I ask the minister how he plans to deal with the shortfall of home support

workers, including compensation and other benefits, to stabilize the important

workforce?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, a couple of weeks ago, my colleague, the

Minister of Finance, stood in this House and read a Budget Speech. In that

speech he highlighted the significant issues we are going to deal with in

Newfoundland and Labrador this year; major investments in all fronts. One of the

other pieces as a part of the budgetary process, there is an Estimates document.

In that Estimates document, it outlines all of the expenditures of every

department.

The member opposite sat in this room last Wednesday night, I believe it was,

in the Estimates and never asked one question; never raised that question at all

about home support. Had he raised the question, I would have referred him to

page 202 in the Budget document, and I say on line 3.1.01.10, there is a line

there that says Grants and Subsidies. If you had to ask me the question last

week, what was included in that figure, I would have laid out $2.5 million for

you to respond to home support -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: - that would have provided a salary increase for home

support workers and another $4 million to increase capacity for home support.

All you had to do was ask it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.

MR. BALL: Mr. Speaker, I am sure when I leave here today the question I

am going to be asked, so I will ask the minister right now: How much an hour are

you prepared to pay home support workers and how much in block funding will you

give to the agencies?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Number one, Mr. Speaker, we do not provide block funding to

agencies. We provide them for services they provide. If they do not provide the

service, we do not pay them. So, there is no block funding for agencies. The

increase equates to about twenty-five cents an hour for home support workers, I

say, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Natural Resources.

Minister, in the recent Budget the government, through Newfoundland and

Labrador Hydro, offered a rebate program for domestic users of diesel generated

power in Labrador, allowing for reductions in power rates to consumers.

I ask the minister today: Have you considered a similar rebate program for

commercial and industrial power users in that region of Labrador, and have you

done any analysis on what that cost would be to Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, a full analysis was done. Everything was taken under

consideration. At this point in time we decided to offer a rebate program to

domestic users and that has been very welcomed news to these communities along

the coast of Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to ask the minister: In that analysis, I am sure you have

estimated what the cost would be to Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro to extend

that rebate program to those businesses and industrial users. I am wondering if

she could give me what that cost would be and to table the report and analysis

that was completed?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will take the question under advisement. I do not have those figures with

me today, and whatever information is available, Mr. Speaker, we are more than

glad to provide it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, the government opposite claims to want to support

rural Newfoundland and Labrador communities. Well, this is a rural area of our

Province where businesses are paying nineteen cents a kilowatt hour for power,

whereas their other customers that are on the grid in Labrador pay less than

five cents a kilowatt hour for power.

Minister, if you want to support your rural agenda, why not reduce the rates

to those businesses and do it immediately?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There are a number of issues that have to be considered when these matters

are discussed. Certainly, competitiveness to businesses, subsidies, all of these

kinds of things are extremely important and need to be given due consideration.

This government is making significant investments all throughout this Province,

but particularly in rural parts of the Province and particularly in rural parts

of Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to come back to the Minister of Health and Community Services. I

would like to do a couple of follow-up questions with the question that was

started by the MHA for Humber Valley.

Many of the women who were affected by the poor testing that went on did not

receive direct contact from Eastern Health but learned about it through the

media. Women of this Province and their families really deserve to know

personally what had happened.

Minister, with regard to the quality control that you are telling us about,

what has been put in place to assure that this kind of lack of direct

information to a patient is never going to happen again?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Test results - the member is talking about a change. Test

results always have been communicated to patients. I think the difficulty in

this particular instance here was that there were a number of tests that were

done and the tests were inaccurate. What has happened here, when that was

discovered the tests were completed again, and the new results were communicated

directly to each of the patients.

As I understand it, Eastern Health had direct contact with either the patient

themselves, and in some cases it was through the family physician, but the

information did get communicated to the patients. The unfortunate thing about it

was many patients heard about the retesting process, as you have described,

through the media, rather than having it coming directly from Eastern Health

themselves.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What I am asking the minister is, I am aware of the fact that they heard

about it through the media instead of it coming through Eastern Health, itself.

What, in the quality control, is now in place that this kind of thing will never

happen again?

I understand about tests going to a doctor, I have tests myself, but when an

error is made people should not be learning about that error and the retesting

through the media. So what in the quality control will make sure that this will

not happen again?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: One of the integral parts of a quality control program

includes the whole process of reporting, reporting to patients, reporting to

physicians, referring physicians, ongoing treating physicians and family

physicians. Inherent in a quality, quality control program, which is what we

have here now, are the whole issues around protocols for communication,

protocols for disseminating reports coming from those tests. So, as a part of

the normal structure of a quality control program, these are some of the

components.

I say to the member, inherent in the quality control program that I outlined

a moment ago, are mechanisms in place to ensure appropriate reporting takes

place.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you.

I do not think the minister knows the answer to my question, but I will ask

one more question.

I am asking the minister now, since he is convinced that we have an

excellently run pathology department and everything is going so well. We have

tremendous people in that department, and I certainly hope we do, and we have

quality control.

Would the minister communicate to his Eastern Health the need to do a public

information program with the details, so that people will feel confident, so

that if I ever have to have a test for breast cancer, that I will feel confident

staying here in my own Province to have that done?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I say to the member opposite, that is an

excellent suggestion and I will, in fact, relay that directly to the CEO of

Eastern Health, because it is an ideal suggestion. Thank you very much for

making it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, earlier this week I asked the Minister of

Education if she had received recommendations related to a review of teacher

allocations in this Province. The minister was very careful in her answer,

saying she would receive the final report within the next couple of weeks.

The truth is, Mr. Speaker, that the minister is well aware of what the

recommendations will be and she is dragging out the process and not implementing

these recommendations in a timely manner.

I ask the minister: Why are you ignoring the needs which exist in the system

and not implementing these recommendations for the start of the new school year

in September?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is that we are very

concerned about the teacher allocation formula. In the absence of a new formula

we certainly were not prepared to go by the Sparkes-Williams formula which would

have seen an additional 137 teachers come out of the system this year.

Mr. Speaker, I want to make some acknowledgments here about the teacher

allocation formula and what has happened. Since we have been in government, Mr.

Speaker, there has been some reduction in teachers - however, not in the last

couple of years - to the amount of 363 teachers since we took government that

have been removed from the system.

What is more important as you stand up and talk about the hundreds of

teachers we took out, is that from 1996 until your last time in government, for

the members opposite, you actually took out 1,434 teachers.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, that formula was no longer working for us, and we

will take our time to make sure that we have a formula that is relevant and

works for the students of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair recognizes the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like for the minister to be reminded that they took out 500 in a

two-year time span. They have been four years in power, Mr. Speaker, and they

are living in the past.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has recognized the hon. the Member for Port de Grave, and I ask him

to put his question.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This government and this minister have been playing a shell game with teacher

allocations in this Province for the past three years. Parents and students

deserve better, Mr. Speaker, and they would want the recommendations contained

in this report acted upon immediately.

I ask the minister: Why are you dragging your feet in making these changes

when there is an obvious need to address the special circumstances facing both

rural schools and also areas where there has been growth in population?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I think it is very important, if we are going to

have facts out there about the teacher allocation, that we know exactly what we

are talking about, so I am going to lay some facts out there right now.

In the year 2004-2005, we removed 256 teachers from the system.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, in 2005-2006, 145 teachers; in 2006-2007, zero;

and, in 2007-2008 none came out, plus we added thirteen additional teachers.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS BURKE: I will go back a few years. If I get another question, I will

go back some more years. In 1996-1997, 136 teachers came out; in 1997-1998, 468

teachers; in 1998-1999, 214 teachers; and, in 1999-2000, 182 teachers.

So, if anybody wants to talk about taking massive teachers out of the system,

it is you who know what you are talking about.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Member for Port de Grave, for a final supplementary.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I guess -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Member for Port de Grave, on a final supplementary.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, I understand why the Premier said some time ago

about the wild, wooly kingdom of politics.

Mr. Speaker, if everything is so rosy as the minister is trying to tell us

here today, why did she spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to have this plan

brought in, in the first place? They keep ignoring the concerns of the President

of the NLTA.

I ask the minister: Will she show some compassion for a change and recognize

the urgency related to implementing the improvements to the ISSP/Pathways Model,

and will she implement those changes before September?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, why we had to go through the process to develop a

new formula and look at what is going on in the system is simply because the

former Administration left us with an allocation formula that just did not make

sense for the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time allocated for Question Period has expired.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Tabling of Documents

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, on Thursday past, I believe it was, I was asked

questions about how much our department paid EWA for consulting fees on the

Trans Gulf fibre optic project. I said I would endeavour to get the information,

and I table that here today, Mr. Speaker.

As well, I was asked if I could table the terms that the department had to

meet in negotiating the final contract with Persona and the other partners in

the Trans Gulf project. Again, Mr. Speaker, I table that information.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today I stand to table the 2006 Annual Report of Newfoundland and Labrador

Hydro.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, pursuant to

Section 49.(2) of the Financial

Administration Act, I wish to table the attached list of temporary loans that

were raised under

Section 48 of the Act since the last report to the House on

May 1, 2006.

Also, Mr. Speaker, pursuant to

Section 55.(3) of the Financial Administration

Act, I wish to report that there were no guaranteed loans paid out by the

Province since the last annual report also on May 1, 2006. While there are none

to be tabled, it is necessary to indicate that in a report to the House.

In addition, Mr. Speaker, pursuant to

Section 55.1.(2) of the Act, I wish to

report that there has been no guaranteed debt of any Crown corporation or agency

assumed by the Province since the May 1, 2006 annual report.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to table the report of the tribunal appointed under

Section 28

of the Provincial Court Act, 1991, to report on salaries and benefits for

provincial court judges. The report contains the tribunal's recommendations

respecting indemnity for provincial court judges.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Further tabling of documents?

Notices of motion.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I give notice that I -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has called Notices of Motion.

I ask members for their co-operation.

The Chair recognizes the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I give notice that I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To

Amend The Liquor Control Act. (Bill 14)

Mr. Speaker, I further give notice that I will ask leave to introduce a bill

entitled,

An Act To Amend The Public Service Pensions Act, 1991, The Teachers'

Pensions Act And The Uniformed Services Pension Act, 1991. (Bill 16)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?

The hon. the Minister of Justice.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I give notice that I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To

Amend The Royal Newfoundland Constabulary Act, 1992. (Bill 19)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will ask leave to introduce a

bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act. (Bill 13)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will ask leave to introduce

a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Pension Benefits Act, 1997. (Bill 15)

I also give notice that I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act

Respecting Trust And Loan Corporations. (Bill 17)

I further give notice that I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, An

Act To Amend The Private Investigation And Security Services Act. (Bill 18)

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair asks members for their co-operation. The House can only proceed if

the Chair has the full co-operation of all members.

The Chair recognizes the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, who is

presenting a petition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased today to present a petition on behalf of the constituents in my

District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair. It is related to the power or

electricity rates for businesses in that particular area of the Province.

Mr. Speaker, recently government in its Budget did reduce the diesel

generated rates to customers in Southern and Northern Labrador by incorporating

them as part of the Labrador grid rate system. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, they will

see their light bills substantially lowered to what they have been in the past.

What I do not support is the fact that government stopped at reducing the rates

for domestic customers and did not continue on to reduce the rate for businesses

and industrial customers in that part of the Province as well.

Now, Mr. Speaker, just to make sure that people understand this. In Labrador,

the electrical rates were always broken down into three very distinct regions.

Labrador City and Wabush was on one particular rate. Goose Bay, Churchill Falls,

North West River area, was on another rate, and the South and North Coast of

Labrador was on a separate rate.

Mr. Speaker, what has happened is that over the course of the last three to

four years the rates in Labrador West have been increased by about 150 per cent

over that period of time to bring them inline with what is now called a Labrador

grid rate. That rate applies to all domestic customers in Labrador, but does not

apply to business or industrial customers. This is the problem, Mr. Speaker,

because right now you have businesses on the North and South Coast of Labrador

that are still paying - when you include the lifeline block rate and the basic

monthly charge, their rates are still up to about nineteen cents a kilowatt

hour. However, if you look at other businesses that are part of that Labrador

grid system, what you see is a rate that falls below five cents a kilowatt hour.

Meaning the cost of doing business for any kind of a business owner, whether you

have a garage, whether you have a restaurant, whether you have a hair salon, it

does not matter, the cost of doing business for them is still four times greater

than all the other businesses in Labrador, and therefore it is not proportional.

Now, Mr. Speaker, this is not a new issue. It has been around for a long time

and it has continued to be pushed by myself and by many others in Labrador. In

fact, I have been to the Public Utilities Board no less than three times on this

particular issue, but what changes this right now is the fact that the current

government is increasing its royalties out of Labrador by more than $200 million

a year, currently, as we speak. Therefore, it is only right that they start

giving some of that money back -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's allotted time has expired.

MS JONES: May I have leave just to clue up, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been requested?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MS JONES: As I was saying, Mr. Speaker, the current government is now

taking more than $200 million in new revenues out of Labrador alone, of which

$50 million a year comes from the sale of recall power and winter availability

power on the Upper Churchill deal and nearly another $150 million in new

royalties out of the Voisey's Bay development project.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I think that argument alone, this new money alone that is

flowing into the government out of royalties on resources in Labrador

substantiates the argument that the time has now come to bring those rates in

line. That is what these people are asking the government to do today.

I also know, Mr. Speaker, because I have had discussions with people in

Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro, and actually had a conversation with the

Premier, that this is not entirely off the radar screen of government. I also

know that due consideration is being given to it. I can only ask, on behalf of

the people that I represent, that there be a sense of urgency around this as the

businesses in that area need to be able to have a competitive edge with other

businesses in Labrador. It would be seen as definitely a way of giving back to

those who desperately need it in these regions of Labrador.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?

The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to present a petition, I will read it into the record, seeing it is

the first time that I have - the petition of the undersigned residents humbly -

WHEREAS there is a shortage of doctors to service the medical needs of people

in many areas of this Province; and

WHEREAS this shortage of general practitioners is causing people to have to

either go without the service of a doctor or depend on the outpatients and

emergency services offered at regional hospitals; and

WHEREUPON the undersigned your petitioners call upon all Members of the House

of Assembly to urge government to improve efforts to recruit and retain general

practitioners so all areas of the Province have adequate service.

And, as in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, I guess I will be referencing the situation in the local area of

the district that I represent, but I am sure there are many areas in this

Province that can be looked at in the same manner, and probably there are areas

of this Province that may not have the services that we do have in our area. We

do have quite a few clinics in the area. There is a clinic in Upper Island Cove

from time to time where the doctor comes in from the Carbonear area. We have a

clinic in Spaniard's Bay that has two general practitioners. For quite some

time there was only one in that location. We have two clinics in Bay Roberts.

One has three general practitioners and the other has two.

I guess the major concern is that even with those doctors, when they are

there with the full capacity that it is now, many of our people have to leave

and come to Mount Pearl and St. John's to see a general practitioner. The

major concern that I have received calls on and what the people are referring to

is that one of the clinics in Bay Roberts now, where there are three general

practitioners, two of those doctors will be leaving either late June or early

July. That leaves a major number of people, in addition to the ones who are

there now who do not have a general practitioner. Both of those doctors have

large files of individuals who they have been seeing over a number of years and

it is going to create a major problem.

I also want to say, having said that, the problem that is created when there

are people with no doctor at all and the problems of sickness happen to come

upon them, the first indication is that they go to the emergency unit at

Carbonear Hospital. That is where the problem lies.

The staff at the hospital, I can tell you, are overburdened, overworked,

because everybody flocks there. They do not have a general practitioner to call

their own, and from time to time that place is blocked to capacity.

Mr. Speaker, I know I mentioned this to the minister during the Estimates,

and no doubt there is probably a plan in place over a long term that, this

issue, they will try to solve the situation. At the present time, Mr. Speaker,

it is a major concern for the people in the area that I represent, and I am sure

there are other areas of the Province that feel the same way.

Mr. Speaker, in conclusion, I just want to call upon government to see that

they try to recruit more general practitioners, not only in my area but all

areas of the Province, and to say that hopefully something can be done sooner

rather than later.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I believe the concurrence debate on the Resource Committee report was

adjourned yesterday. I am not sure how much time is left, but a few minutes

anyway, so the adjourned debate on the Resource Committee.

MR. SPEAKER: Yesterday, at the end of the afternoon session, the debate

was adjourned by the Leader of the Opposition. The Chair deems that there are

twelve minutes left in the Leader of the Opposition's speaking time.

The Chair recognizes the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I do not know if I will need the twelve, but I understand that later on today

I also get another hour on the Social Services Estimates.

Yesterday afternoon, I was talking about - the Member for Terra Nova asked me

why I would not vote for a Budget that was giving me a tax decrease, or a

decrease in the taxes which I pay. I tried to explain to him yesterday

afternoon, but he did not quite seem to understand what I was saying so I will

give it a little try again, Mr. Speaker.

The reason that I am not in favour of this tax deduction, and I will be

voting against it in the Budget, is as simple as this, Mr. Speaker: Everybody is

going to see a tax deduction. Everybody is going to see a tax deduction in this

Budget, yes, I will grant that. The lower income earners, the middle income

earners and the higher income earners, they are all going to see a tax break

based on the income that they make. They are going to see a tax break.

The problem that I have, Mr. Speaker, and why I am voting against this

initiative, is because the higher income earners get a double tax break in this

Budget. They get a double tax break. The lower and the middle income earners in

this Province will only get one tax break,

whereas the higher income earners in

the Province will see two. They will see two tax breaks.

The reason for that is, Mr. Speaker, and the Minister of Finance can get up

and talk about it later if he wants, is because it says in their own press

release, when they announced it, when these tax breaks are going to come into

effect, this year and next, and they outlined what percentage the low and middle

income earners - the reduction, the percentage - but it also says the personal

income tax surtax will also be eliminated June 1, 2007. This tax was initially

imposed on high income individuals to deal with fiscal deficits that no longer

challenge this Province.

So, what they are saying is that

whereas the vast majority of Newfoundlanders

and Labradorians will get a tax break, that small portion of the people who

happen to earn the highest incomes in the Province will see two tax breaks, and

that is because the income over, I think, $60,000 or $70,000 will now, the 9 per

cent, I think, surtax on income over $70,000, will now be eliminated. Let me

give you an example of what I am talking about.

You would expect, for example, that someone who makes $50,000 a year - and I

am talking about individual incomes. I am not talking about combined incomes,

family incomes. I am talking about individual incomes. According to the minister's

own estimates, and they are there in his press release that he put out, for

example, if you were to make $50,000 you will get a tax reduction next year of -

less than you are paying this year - $911. So, Mr. Speaker, if you did the math

you would assume that someone making $100,000 would get a $1,812 deduction, if

we were all being treated fairly. If all classes of people in the Province were

being treated fairly, the individual making $50,000 is going to get a reduction

in his tax by $911 this year, and you would expect that someone making $100,000

would get a $1,822 reduction; but, in actual fact, Mr. Speaker, the individual

making $100,000 a year will be getting a tax reduction of $2,441 which is about

two-and-a-half times, Mr. Speaker, two-and-a-half times the individual who is

making $50,000. I do not think that is fair. I do not think that is fair

because, Mr. Speaker, if you look at the statistics in the Province, I think the

average annual income is somewhere around $30,000 or less. That is for everyone

who is working out there, the average. I know the members opposite do not want -

What I am saying, Mr. Speaker, I think the remedy to that would be to leave

the 9 per cent surtax on the incomes over $70,000. Leave that tax there. Leave

that tax there, and the money that the government would have given to a tax

break to what is considered to be the rich in the Province - now, the members

opposite might differ as to what they consider rich - leave that 9 per cent on

the rich, but take what they would have saved by giving that tax reduction to

those group of individuals and spread it over to the bottom lower classes, those

who make less than $60,000 a year. Spread it over them so that the individuals

who are making less than $60,000 a year will see a bigger tax reduction. That is

the point that I am making. That is the reason why I am not voting for that

initiative, I say to the Member for Terra Nova. I think it makes a lot of sense.

For example, $150,000 a year, this individual this year who is making that

amount of money is going to get a $4,000 reduction in his tax. I think if you

are making $150,000 a year, you should be able to afford to pay more tax, I

think, than the individual who is making $20,000 a year, and they obviously do.

Let's face it, Mr. Speaker, we are not rich as a Province, so why is the

minister so adamant on giving a larger tax break on a percentage basis to the

richer people in the Province than they are to the middle income earners and the

lower income earners?

That is the argument that I am making. Why didn't they level it across the

board, if that is the case, and give everybody the same increase? That would not

even be as bad as what they are doing, even though I would prefer if they gave

more to the lower income families and the middle income families rather than

giving the largest tax break to the higher income families in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, I do not think that is right, but that seems to be the Tory way.

That has always been the Tory way. They reward those who make the most money.

That is all through this Budget, if you want to look at it. It is there when you

look at the Premier's staff, it is there when you look at the new CEOs who he

hired in the past few years over at Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro where they

doubled and tripled their wages in some instances.

You know, most of the people, I would say, in my district, those who rely on

the fishery this year, the ones I was talking about in Question Period, their

average earned income this year will be less than $15,000 - less than $15,000 on

earned income. Now, with their bit of EI they might make a little bit more than

that, but their average earned income is roughly $15,000 a year. Yet, we have

seen increases in salaries in the Premier's office by that amount, close to

$15,000. Now these individuals are going to get a $3,000 or $4,000 tax reduction

on top of that. So, in fact, they are going to be making $15,000 or $16,000 or

$17,000 more than they did last year - salaries of $130,000 for the Premier's

Chief of Staff.

You know, most people out there in the Province are making less than $30,000

a year, and in most areas in the rural parts of our Province where the fishery

is the mainstay, I say, Mr. Speaker, the average earned income is probably far

less than $20,000 or even $15,000. I am saying that these are the people who

need it the most. Instead of giving a larger tax break to the rich, let's try

to help out our brothers and sisters and our aunts and our uncles who live in,

not just in the rural parts of our Province, because if you look at an

individual today who is making the minimum wage - by the way, Mr. Speaker, I say

the individuals who clean this House of Assembly and your offices around

Confederation Building make the minimum wage, $7 an hour, $14,560 a year.

Fourteen thousand, gross income before taxes, and we are going to give them the

lowest tax break. We are going to give someone who is making $100,000 the

highest tax break. I do not think that is right, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the Member for Terra Nova, I hope he understands now where I am

coming from. With that, I will sit down and somebody else can have a few words.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Is the House ready for the question?

The motion is that the House concurs in the approval of the report of the

Resource Committee on Supply.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

The motion is carried.

On motion, Report of Resource Estimates Committee, carried.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would now like to move to Order 3, which is the concurrence motion to

receive the report of the Social Services Committee.

MR. SPEAKER: Order 3 has been called on the concurrence.

The Chair recognizes the Member for St. John's North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDGLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is certainly my pleasure as Chair of the Social Services Committee to

introduce concurrence debate on the Estimates for those five departments. The

five departments that were considered by the Social Services Committee were: the

Department of Education; the Department of Health and Community Services; the

Department of Municipal Affairs; the Department of Justice; the Department of

Human Resources, Labour and Employment, and also under that department, the

Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation.

Mr. Speaker, the members of the committee who served with us were: the Member

for Port de Grave; the Member for Humber Valley; the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi; the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's; the Member for Port au Port,

and the Member for Conception Bay South.

Also, because of scheduling and so on, we had to call on various members to

fill in. I would like to thank those as well: the Member for St. Barbe; the

Member for Ferryland; the Member for Terra Nova. In addition to that we had,

from the Opposition side, in addition to the members of the committee, the

critics for each department, in turn, would be able to appear with the committee

and present their questions. We had the Member for Bellevue, who replaced his

colleague, the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune. The Member for Grand Falls-Buchans

appeared with the Education Committee, and the Member for Burgeo & LaPoile

with the Justice Committee.

Just briefly, in terms of the functioning of the Estimates Committee for

those who may not be aware, who may be watching the broadcast on television, the

Estimates Committee is a time for the Opposition members mostly to sit down with

the minister and his staff, to look at the expenditures for last year. Then, in

turn, the budgeted expenditures for the coming year and to ask questions about

this figure or that figure.

These meetings, Mr. Speaker, as you would know, take place in the morning or

the evening, normally here in the House of Assembly. We had two evening

meetings. I believe the latest one we had was around 10:30 p.m. So, that kind of

puts to rest also a little bit of the myth that MHAs only do work when the House

of Assembly is in session. There are other things that go on behind the scenes

in which members take part.

I would like to thank the members, particularly the Opposition, who came to

the Estimates meetings always very well prepared. It was obvious that they had

done their work and gone through the figures in the Estimates. The questions, I

thought, were probing questions, not presented in any kind of a controversial

way but they were presented to extract, or to get information from the ministers

and the minister's staff. Again, I would like to compliment all of those

members.

Mr. Speaker, the Social Services Committee, with those five departments - and

I will call it five even though the Housing comes under there and makes it six.

But the five government departments, of the $5.5 billion that government will

spend in 2007-2008, the five committees or the five departments that we looked

at in Social Services Committee represent some $3.7 billion of that $5.5

billion. That, in round figures perhaps, is close to 70 per cent of government's

expenditures that will take place within those five Social Services departments.

Mr. Speaker, I know certainly as Chair you kind of like to maintain some sort of

neutrality, the Chair sitting in the middle of the Opposition and the Government

Members, or the ministers, but I cannot help but say that this 70 per cent

expenditure in the social area kind of points to what the bent of this

government is.

As the Premier has pointed out on more than one occasion, we are indeed a

Progressive Conservative Party, a Progressive Conservative government; more so

than what exists at the federal level now, which seems to be an ultra right-wing

Conservative government. We have a definite bent, Mr. Speaker, for the social

programs.

By department, just briefly, and I will round off some of these figures. Last

year in the Department of Education, government spent some $903 million, and

that increases this year in the new Budget to $1,022,000,000. The first time

that the Department of Education has exceeded $1 billion. That is up some $119

million over last year's expenditure. An additional $119 million going into

the education system in one form or another.

The Department of Health and Community Services, last year spent some $1.8

billion, close to actually $1.9 billion. This year, in 2007-2008, that will jump

to $2,127,000,000. An increase in the Department of Health and Community

Services of roughly $264 million.

In the Department of Municipal Affairs, we have gone from expenditures of

$140 million to $142 million.

In the Department of Justice, last year's expenditures were around $144

million. That jumps this year to $172 million. An increase of some $28 million

in that department.

In the Department of Human Resources, Labour and Employment, last year's

expenditures ranged around $259 million. This year we go to $272 million. An

increase of some $13 million in that department.

Our grant to the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation, last year was

$15 million and this year, Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to say - and I will have a

couple of further remarks in terms of that corporation now in a minute, but our

grant goes from $15 million to some $29 million this year. Just about doubling

what is going to the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation.

The $3.7 billion, Mr. Speaker, that this Social Services Committee considered

under its Estimates, as I say, represented about 70 per cent of the $5.5 billion

expenditure. We take the five departments there and extract from them - just

take out the Department of Health and Community Services and the Department of

Education. Health and Community Service, as I say, is responsible for some $2.1

billion and the Education department, again, just over $1 billion. So in those

two departments, Mr. Speaker, the expenditures will represent over $3 billion,

approximately $3.15 billion in just those two departments. That again, in

percentage terms, represents about 57 per cent, close to 60 per cent, of all

government expenditures. So, Mr. Speaker, if we take out those two departments,

we cannot say, well, okay, in government now everything is looked after;

because, in addition to these two departments which are spending almost 60 per

cent of the government's budget, we also have to look after the public

service, the Department of Transportation and Works, the Department of Business,

the Department of Environment, the Department of Fisheries, the Department of

Innovation, Trade and Rural Development, Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs. There

are actually, Mr. Speaker, some fifteen other departments that have to be looked

after with the remaining money. So government, in the coming year, is going to

spend some $5.5 billion, but when we take out the Department of Health and

Community Services and the Department of Education, what is left, Mr. Speaker,

is about $2.3 billion. So, those two departments have taken from it, the total

budget, about $3.15 billion.

If we can put this on a smaller scale, Mr. Speaker, because oftentimes when

you start talking in terms of billions of dollars, most of us - certainly I

cannot relate to expenditures of hundreds of thousands let alone into the

millions and billions of dollars, but if you are running the expenditures in

your own household and you have to reduce it to comparative or proportionate

terms, if you have $550 to spend and you have two people in the household,

whether its is your son or daughter going to colleague, or a mother or father

who might be sick, or someone in your family who is sick, the Department of

Education and the Department of Health, in your family, of your $550 that you

have to spend, those two items, let's say the one who is sick and the one who

is going to school, would have taken out $315. So, for the rest of your

household expenditures, for the baby diapers and the sneakers and the lunch

money and the heat and the insurance and the telephone and the cable and all the

other departments, of your $550 that you started with, you are left with about

$235 to look after all of the other needs of the household. This is basically

the same position that government is in. After Health and Community Services and

Education come out, we are left with about $235 million to spend on the other

departments.

So, Mr. Speaker, what came through very clearly in the Estimates Committee is

that government is faced with choices to make in terms of the expenditures.

Obviously, your funds are limited. You want to always, or as much as possible,

come in with a balanced or, in this case, a surplus budget.

Again, I go back to the person who is running a household on, say, $550 for

whatever expenditures are on the go. After you have looked after a couple of

things and you have your heat and your light and your telephone, what government

is saddled with, in comparison with the household, you also have to remember

that your Chargex bill, or your Visa bill, or your MasterCard bill also has an

outstanding balance of some $1,100. In government's case it is $11 billion, so

we have allocated, in this Budget, to put against that deficit some $261

million. That would be, in comparison to the household with a $1,100 Visa bill,

we are now going to put, at the end of the year, $26 against that $1,100. Mr.

Speaker, it is not going to make a major dart in the debt, but it will reduce it

somewhat.

In terms of the choices that were made, just briefly by department, I know in

the Education Department the expenditures, as I say, went over $1 billion. Some

$41 million additional was put into the K-12 system. These are some of the

choices that government made.

There was $14.8 million for new school construction. Some $5.2 million - and

we heard in Question Period earlier today about new teachers in the system -

some $5.2 million went into the education system to retain 137 teachers. Now,

you can argue all day long whether they are new teachers, old teachers, whatever

they were. The fact is, some thirteen additional units, above and beyond the 137

that were retained, are now in the education system. There was some $12.8 to

extend the provision of free textbooks, another choice made by government.

The choice this year, in terms of the Education Department, that I am

particularly fond of, was the choice that government made to reduce the interest

rate on student debt from -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDGLEY: - prime plus 2.5 per cent down to prime. So, at this rate,

whatever the student was paying - and this affects a huge number of students.

This affects some 46,000 students. In my opinion, and in the opinion of a lot of

people out there, students and parents alike, this was a very good choice of

government.

In addition to that, in terms of the student debt, government chose to put

some $10.7 million into up front needs based grants. This was based on a round

table that the minister held with students. We listened carefully to students,

government did, and said: What can we do for you in terms of student debt? They

said: What we are looking for mostly is to do something with the interest rate,

because you can never seem to catch up.

I know that first-hand, because I am assisting my two daughters in terms of

paying off their student loans. I know the interest rate, it is very difficult

to catch up from month to month. It is the same with your mortgage payment, Mr.

Speaker. It is very difficult to see any dent being made in the principal of the

loan.

The other money that was made in terms of student debt, and this applies

mostly to rural students because it is needs based grants, they are coming in

and their living expenses are much more than those students who are living in

the urban area and attending MUN or CONA. So this is $10.7 million. Instead of

having to borrow $140 a week, there will be $70 of that made in an up front

grant. Mr. Speaker, a very good choice, I think, made by the government in that

area.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDGLEY: We can say, Mr. Speaker - and, of course, we heard it loud

and clear from those in the education profession - that government did not do

enough for education. Again, you have to make choices. Government made its

choices and is spending, or will spend this year, over $1 billion in the

education system. If another person or another government were making the

decisions and making choices, they may have chosen something else. We made our

choices in the areas that I have just indicated, but the fact remains, you

cannot do it all so you have to make the best choices that you can with the

money that is available.

In the area of health, Mr. Speaker, the health expenditures were outlined by

the hon. the Minister of Finance in the Budget, including the $1.4 million for

the insulin pumps which, I think, was well received by the general population;

some $67 million going into new health care facilities; some $2.3 million to

expand the dental program. Again, this goes down to help out the lower income

people who have some difficulty with the high cost of dental care. So, this is

$2.3 million additional going in to expand the dental program to those

youngsters between the ages of thirteen and seventeen.

I think, Mr. Speaker, again, choices have to be made. Government was lobbied

hard and long by some of the advocates for those people who suffer from some

catastrophic diseases, particularly MS and so on like that. Government, I think,

made a very, very wise choice in terms of the new drug program whereby it will

be pro-rated in terms of your income and you will only pay a certain percentage

of your income toward your drug costs. No matter if your income is $15,000 a

year or if it is $150,000 a year, only a percentage will be paid.

We made what I think are very good choices in that and, again, to spread the

money over as many people as possible. There will be those, Mr. Speaker, who

will stand up and say that government should do more for child care, government

should do more for long-term care and home care. Again, I think it is important

for people when they stand up and advocate that you should have spent money on

this and you should have spent money on that, they have to always be cognizant

of the fact that you have this much money to go around and unless you want to go

in debt, if you want to go in debt further again -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RIDGLEY: Unless you want to go in debt, Mr. Speaker, as a Province,

and bury the Province into debt, you cannot do it all. So choices have to be

made, Mr. Speaker.

Again, I go back to the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation and the

$27.5 million, Mr. Speaker, that is put into the modernization and improvement

program of the Corporation, Newfoundland and Labrador Housing. This is

something, as the Member for St. John's North, I am very familiar with because

I think most units in housing, and certainly in the metro area, are in St. John's

North.

The PHRP program, Mr. Speaker, the grants for people who want to do repairs

to their homes was actually doubled. This has been a sore point over the many

years that people want to do repairs to their homes, low-income people want to

do repairs, they do not have the money and they apply for a grant from

Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation. They are told: Okay, right now we

are working on a list for those who applied three or four years ago. Basically,

what we have done is doubled the money that is going into that, or government

has doubled the money going into that so that the list will be pretty well

brought up to a more current basis.

Mr. Speaker, something which I know is there, not in a line item in the

Budget, but something that I have actually been working with three separate

ministers responsible for Housing over the past three-and-a-half years in the

District of St. John's North, there is a heating subsidy provided by

Newfoundland and Labrador Housing. A complicated formula, Mr. Speaker, because

there are those tenants of Housing, their homes are heated by electric heat,

some are heated by oil heat where they have an individual tank, some are heated

by an oil tank which heats four or five apartments. The Corporation just keeps

filling that tank because they really cannot determine which apartment spent how

much on oil.

I am pleased to say, Mr. Speaker, that the ones with the individual oil

tanks, the subsidy that they are given by Housing to help out with their heat

has not changed since 1986. I have been talking, as I say, to three different

ministers to have this increased and this coming November when the oil subsidy

kicks in for these people who operate with their own individual oil tanks, that

subsidy will go up by some $200 per family.

Mr. Speaker, we made choices, again in the Department of Human Resources,

Labour and Employment. I know my time is running down but I want to speak about

one in particular, which is some $1 million, or just over a million dollars

going into the Graduate Retention Program. This is whereby a new graduate can go

out, basically with $10,000 in his or her pocket and say to an employer: If you

hire me, I have $10,000 here to go against the wages that you will pay me. This

is basically going to allow another 100 graduates to probably stay here in the

Province.

There are other choices, Mr. Speaker, that were made in there. Some $14

million towards poverty reduction, which would increase the total expenditure in

the poverty reduction to some $91 million at this point. Again, I think a good

choice.

Finally, in the Department of Justice, Mr. Speaker, we made choices to add

some 153 new positions to RNC and other people with the Office of the Child

Advocate and so on. So, I -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's allotted time has expired.

MR. RIDGLEY: Just to clue up, Mr. Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MR. RIDGLEY: We, Mr. Speaker, as a government through those five

departments, and through all departments of government, are always cognizant of

having to work within the money that is available. I think we have made very,

very good choices, choices that will benefit a lot of people in the Province.

Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I have no problem in concurring with the estimates for

those five departments.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate the applause. Not often we get applause on this side of the

House from the government side. Thank you very much.

It is great to have an opportunity here. The Member for St. John's North

acknowledged that we do, of course, have an Estimates Committee; that is three

committees of the House that break the various departments up. We sit down and

actually pour over the financial details contained in those departments to

determine if we think they are right, wrong or indifferent. We can get an

opportunity at those committee hearings to ask the various ministers probing

questions, as he says, about what the money is being spent on and so on. So, it

is a great opportunity.

I would make a point, however, that the three that I attended, just so that

Joe chesterfield again and Martha understand here, that when we had these

committee meetings I never heard one single question from a government member

who sat on those committees. Now, I do not know if they never had any questions

about it -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. PARSONS: Well, the ones I attended, I said. I said the ones I

attended. The ones that I attended, I never heard a single question from a

government member who sat on an Estimates Committee about anything. Now, I do

not know if that means they agree with everything that is there, or, as most

people think, they are just puppets and they are frightened to ask anyway. Now I

would think the latter is probably correct. I never heard a single question at

any Estimates Committee that I attended from a government member.

Now I would think there are questions, regardless. We might agree with

everything, all or nothing that is in the Budget, but I would think that

anybody, no matter what side of the House you sit on, you would have some

questions. I did not hear any, and that bothers me. That concerns me because I

am sure people in rural Newfoundland have issues and people who live in the city

has issues that their members ought to have been asking. That was the occasion

and the opportunity to do it, I say to the Chair, who is entering this

particular Budget here, and it did not happen.

I have to say thank you, as well, for the one I attended with Minister

Ottenheimer dealing with Intergovernmental Affairs, very prompt. Today he tabled

some figures. I asked him how many intergovernmental contracts or arrangements

have been inked between the federal and the provincial government since the

ta-ta between Premier Williams and his good friend, Steve. There were thirteen,

now some of them pretty mundane things in terms of how governments work; not

mundane in the sense that the agreements were not important, but shall we say,

routine. I looked at some of them and a lot of them deals with housing that

takes place between the federal government and our Aboriginal communities, which

is an ongoing annual thing. So, I did not see too much there that was earth

shattering and certainly nothing that the Steve and Danny fiasco might have

interfered with. Life goes on from that perspective, as well.

I was disappointed, however, with the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs

when I asked my questions about Dr. Feelgood's limousine service in Ottawa. Of

course, for those out there in TV land, we pay somebody in excess of $100,000 a

year, plus expenses, plus offices and now staff to sit up in Ottawa and act,

basically, as a limousine service. If a minister from Newfoundland has to go up

to Ottawa, you do not open your own doors anymore, you do not drive your own

taxis and you do not even get a cab. Dr. Feelgood picks you up at the airport

and delivers you to wherever you have to go. We are paying about $300,000 or

$400,000 a year for that. That is the job, by the way, that Mr. Bill Rowe, the

talk show host, used to have. He came home out of it, for whatever reasons. The

Premier thought fit to put someone back in there again. Of course, I have

serious concerns, had them and still have them with that.

I also had some concerns when I asked the good Minister of Intergovernmental

Affairs about some of the expenditures. You can rant and rave about the good

things, but there has to be the balance. You have to appreciate, number one,

where you are getting resources that you are spending, where they came from, and

you have to understand and have some appreciation of what you are spending them

on and whether it is fair or not.

I had some concerns, not that we shouldn't subsidize local businesses now,

particularly in this case in the sealing industry and the furrier industry here

in town, but I have a serious problem when we have spent $8,000 of our money to

buy two fur coats for Ralph Klein and his wife. Now, there are a lot of people

out in Burgeo & LaPoile who have a problem with that; a lot of people. A lot

of people have a problem with that.

The question was raised, and the minister quite rightly, being the gentleman

that he is, never had the answer and he knew that. He found that hard to

justify. We might have good relationships with the federal government or any

provincial government, but the fact that you justify it as a retirement gift for

Ralph Klein, the Premier of Alberta, that just doesn't wash it, folks. It didn't

wash it back then when it first came out and was discovered as a result of a

Freedom of Information request, because this government, of course, would never

release that kind of information. That is buried so far in the bowels of

government, that kind of information, that you would never find it without a

Freedom of Information request. Then when you get it, it is blacked out to the

extent that we didn't know at first if it was fur coats or what it was, until

finally we spotted it. That was there, so we have some concerns with that.

We have $15 million worth of concerns when it comes to the fibre optic

buddies, some problems there. If you listened to the crowd on the other side,

everything is absolutely positive and spend, spend.

Anyway, I am going to take the balance of my time today - I am going to come

back to that, because we have all that in the Budget debate yet. We are only in

the seventy-five hours and this is Committee.

I am going to mention an issue today that has come to my attention and is

very localized, very, very localized, but it fits in under one of the

departments that comes under this Government Services Committee, specifically

the Department of Education.

AN HON. MEMBER: Social Services.

MR. PARSONS: The Social Services Committee. That is the Department of

Education. Now, the minister has been made aware of this, and also the Minister

of Business, who deals with the red tape committee and has been giving reports

over the last couple of years about the red tape committee. I will give you a

little example of where this is not working in rural Newfoundland. It might not

concern anybody who lives inside the overpass because you folks in here don't

have to deal with these kinds of issues.

I am talking about a little issue in a little community called Grand Bruit.

Grand Bruit is on the Southwest Coast of this Province. It has a wintertime

population of probably twenty-two or twenty-three. In the summertime, the

population increases quite dramatically because a lot of people, even from

mainland Canada and the United States, have homes there and they come to stay

for the summer because it is, indeed, a very beautiful location.

They have a little schoolhouse there. That schoolhouse has functioned, since

it has existed, as the community centre. They do not only use it for a school;

they use it as a community centre, they use it as an anniversary place, if

someone is having an anniversary and needs to have a party and some kind of

function. I am sure a lot of people in rural Newfoundland are familiar with

those types of places, but it is the biggest and only place that you could do

such a thing in this little community.

Grand Bruit decided a couple of years ago they were going to have a Come Home

Year in 2007. By the way, this is the last year for the school in Grand Bruit.

There will be no more school in Grand Bruit at the close of the year, this year,

June, next month, 2007. The reason being, of course, because of the population

decline and there are only two kids in the school at the present time and both

of these will be leaving Grand Bruit to go to other communities to further their

education. The school, in any case - just to set the groundwork here - is

closing as of June.

They are having this Come Home Year and they have a little local service

district there. This lady, Ms Cindy Billard is her name, very active in the

community, near and dear to her heart, she writes a letter to the school board,

and this comes under the Western School Board. Her friend and colleague, Linda

Farrell, was also involved with the committee. They said: We are having our Come

Home Year in 2007, in the summer. I don't imagine we could get permission to

use the school?

You have to remember the background that I just laid out about this school in

Grand Bruit. Lo and behold, a letter comes back from the school board in the

Western District, and I am going to read it and give you an example of a red

tape committee that the minister is always talking about. You want to talk about

red tape. I do not know if this has gone down to the school boards or whatever -

and that is another issue that we have, because sometimes this government says,

if they do not want to touch an issue, they will say: We can't touch them

because the school boards operate independent of government. On certain other

occasions, for example, if there happens to be a by-election in Exploits, the

government can, indeed, intercede and ask for certain things to be done. I put

that out there, that it depends on which tack, I guess, the government wants to

take.

This is the letter that went back to Ms Billard from the school board in

Corner Brook. Dear Ms Billard: Your request on behalf of Grand Bruit Come Home

Year Committee to utilize Grand Bruit All-Grade for Come Home Year festivities

for the dates August 1 to August 5, 2007 has been approved. Ms Linda Farrell, a

Western School District employee, has agreed to take full responsibility for the

facility during the event.

That is the good news, they got approval. Now we go on to paragraph two. You

talk about, this is what you ask of people in a community of twenty-three from a

school board, and they say: Despite our confidence and support of your committee

- so, we have confidence and support of your committee, but despite that - and,

meanwhile, the lady they referred to, Ms Linda Farrell, who lives next door to

the school, who happens to work as a janitor in the school system and has been a

caretaker for years and years, and Grand Bruit is her home - they said: Despite

our confidence and support of your committee, we require that certain conditions

for use be met. Number one, that Grand Bruit Come Home Year be responsible for

cleaning, including supplies.... By the way, this is the last year for the

school. There will be no more school in Grand Bruit after June. The school

closes in June. We are talking about a Come Home Year activity in August - that

Grand Bruit Come Home Year be responsible for cleaning, including supplies, of

all areas used, for security, and for any damage should it occur. All areas are

to be returned to original condition.

They do not have a problem with that.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. PARSONS: No, I say to the minister, in all fairness, I brought this

to the minister's attention and she is working on it, but I point this out not

as a case of government inaction; I am pointing this out as an incident, how

governments function and how people actually exist sometimes in rural

Newfoundland. There is a serious disconnect. That is the purpose of pointing

this out, and urging people like the good Minister of Business, who deals with

red tape and so on, to take it to another level and get these kinds of

idiosyncratic things fixed.

Number one was not a problem because, by the way, you will never find a

neater, cleaner, a more responsible group than in Grand Bruit. They have used

the school and looked after it for years. That is a little bit insulting,

actually, to say that to the people of Grand Bruit.

Number two, that the Grand Bruit Come Home Year Committee carry third party

liability insurance to hold the Western School District harmless against any

claims arising from use of the school during the festivities. Please forward

copy of same to my attention.

Now that is pretty good, folks. That is pretty good. You talk about

conditions and red tape. The good people of Great Bruit have used this school

since it was built forty-odd or fifty-odd years ago, and all of a sudden this

year they are having Come Home Year - no more school, the school is gone, the

school is closing in June, the school is probably going to be dismantled, sold,

tore down, whatever - and now they have to go and get a third party liability

insurance policy to use the school during Come Home Year in Grand Bruit. Now,

that is pretty good.

Number three, the keys, one set to the building be kept in the possession of

responsible adults who are members of the organizing committee, and that no

duplicate keys be made.

Now, folks, this school also doubles in Grand Bruit not only as a school;

they had a CAP site there. They are very modern, they have had it for about ten

years, and to suggest that we are going to give you the one set of keys that you

can use for that time period but, other than that, behave yourselves. Insulting

again.

This is number four. You talk about traditional Newfoundland, and we talk of

the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation not only bringing people into

this Province to experience our culture - you talk about putting impediments in

the way of us even enjoying our own culture amongst ourselves, and this is where

number four comes in.

The Grand Bruit Come Home Year Committee respect Western School District's

policies regarding alcohol consumption and smoking. At no time is there to be

any alcoholic consumption or smoking permitted on school board property.

Now, first and foremost, I do not know if there is anybody in Grand Bruit who

smokes. I don't think there is. They would certainly abide by that law,

because that is the law universally, but the alcohol piece is a little

bothersome because, folks, if it rains in Grand Bruit on either one of those

days they have nowhere to go, other than that school; and, by the way, they are

not known for getting fallen down drunk and beating holes in places and making

fools of themselves. In fact, this very school has been used repeatedly by the

good people in Grand Bruit when they have, for example, a teacher retirement,

and they have a little wine and cheese. I guess that is history now; they cannot

even have a wine and cheese for their teacher any more who is leaving. The last

teacher Grand Bruit is ever going to see, and they cannot have a wine and cheese

for them. Now, that is pretty good. Can you imagine? These are the kind of rules

and regulations that we exist with, and these people in the school board come

back on the bottom line and say: Please confirm your acceptance of these

conditions in writing and we will make arrangements to co-ordinate access.

Now the minister, I must say, a pretty common sense response when I brought

this to the minister's attention. I agree with her, actually; but, because we

are all law-abiding, including herself, we cannot do it. The initial reaction

was - which mine was - this is a case where it is easier to seek forgiveness

than it is permission. If the good people of Grand Bruit had approached me, I

would have said that, and I would not have minded defending them, I do not

think, if they were charged with anything, because this is utter foolishness,

utter foolishness. Now, where this ties into the Budget, by the way, there is a

tie-in, is because there is a sentence or paragraph in the Budget documents

which talks about the Department of Education expending $100,000 to provide

insurance so that communities and schools can interact. That is the question I

put to the minister. Because, first and foremost, I don't think people in the

Western School Board are aware of the existence of it. Maybe it is because it

hasn't had time yet to be implemented. To me, this is an example of where that

type of money should be used.

First and foremost, I don't even know if it is necessary to have it

insured. I mean, it is no longer a school, folks. I would think anybody who had

a grain of common sense in a school board - I don't think we are going to be

putting the head office for the fibre optic company down in Grand Bruit. I don't

think we are going to have the crowd up in Voisey's Bay looking to put their

headquarters down in the school in Grand Bruit. I wouldn't think that. I don't

think we are going to end up with a call centre going to Grand Bruit.

I would have thought a good thing to do, a common sense thing to do, would be

to say, instead of this: By the way, do you think you might have some ideas

where you could use the building after June 20? Would you like to take it over

as a community facility, since you have a CAP site there? This is where common

sense gets lost sometimes in the bureaucratic process; absolutely lost.

By the way, there are people all over this Province and all over this country

who came from Grand Bruit, some of the most educated - a lot like Ramea. A lot

of well-known and very well educated people came out of Ramea, and Grand Bruit

is the same way. They are everywhere throughout this country. They are coming

home, but, boy, if you are going to have a bottle of beer you better have it out

on the head of the wharf, because if it rains you can't have it up in the

school like they used to for years and years and years. They have rule now, they

have red tape, that says you can't do it.

I just bring that to the people's attention, because of all the things that

governments talk about doing and school boards talk about doing, this is the

heights of foolishness; the heights of foolishness. They have had their

anniversaries, they have had their Come Home Years, they have had their garden

parties, they have had their New Years' parties, they have had their socials,

you name it and they have had it in the school in Grand Bruit for as long as

anybody in this Assembly has been alive probably, and now we run into the likes

of this.

By the way, that was written by one person, the purchasing manager. You talk

about organization and red tape, I say to the Minister of Business. You talk

about organization. That one letter was written by the purchasing manager for

the Western School Board. It was cc'd to the operations manager, southern

zone, cc'd to the regional education office, southern zone, cc'd to the

assistant director of education, administration and finance. Now, that is pretty

serious stuff. That is pretty wide, good use of government money. Now, that is

quite the letter. When I got that -

Anyway, we are waiting to hear from the minister, because I have not heard

back from her, but I would hope we are going to hear back from her soon and I

do, indeed, hope that this government and this minister have the fortitude - and

I am sure she does - to say to the Western School Board: Boys, you have to have

and exercise a little bit of human decency and common sense. You just cannot be

doing this to the people who live in rural Newfoundland.

You talk about fee cuts and whatever. Now, that could lead me on to another

twenty minutes or so, I guess, if I had the time, but I do believe my time is

about up. That leads me to the issue of the fees. You talk about a government, a

group of people, taking a backspin on something. I always called them the

masters of spin, by the way. You fellows have it all over anybody I have ever

dealt with in my life when it comes to the masters of spin. There is no doubt

about it, you people have reinvented the wheel when it comes to how to spin

something. I have never seen the like of it in all my life.

I am going to give you one example. You talk about spin. They took over

government in October or November of 2003. They said: You fellows got the bank

broke, boys, you have her in hard shape, so we have to do something about this.

We have to get some money and get back on to fiscal management again.

So they went out then and they brought in a fee in the Budget. Nobody wants

to talk about that Budget. I do not hear anybody over there talking about the

Budget of 2004. I never heard too much about that Budget when you went to your

districts. I never heard too many of you out in your districts screaming about

that Budget, yes, Sir. Can you imagine, they brought in a fee back then, they

had a fee -

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

I remind the hon. Opposition House Leader that his time for speaking has

expired.

MR. PARSONS: Leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member, by leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you.

I appreciate the members opposite giving me leave. I feel certain now that,

based on what I am going to say here, they are going to sit me down. Joe and

Martha, I am sorry, but that is the way the system works. The minute you say

something they do not like, they sit you down.

You have to let me tell you about the death certificate fee. I will not get

into the whole fee fiasco until the next day when I get a chance to speak, but

you have to let me tell the people out there about the death certificate fee.

By the way, until this government brought in a fee in 2004, there was no fee

for a death certificate. There was no fee. So, what did they do? They brought in

a fee for a death certificate. Guess what? They are telling you this year that

if you die within twelve months you do not have to pay for a death certificate.

That is pretty good. That is quite the saving. That is a good saving, but

unfortunately it requires that I die. Quite frankly, I am not too interested in

taking advantage of that fee. That is pretty good. You are going to give me six

feet of sod so that I can save the cost of a death certificate. I am telling

you, you are very magnanimous in your gestures to humanity and to the people of

this Province.

By the way, the other one, the only other one I will mention right now, they

took the polar bear fee out. They put the polar bear fee in, but little did they

know, folks, when they put it in, that the polar bear apparently was extinct and

you could not hunt it anyway. That substantially increased the coffers of this

Province, I am sure. That didn't buy two fur coats, I will guarantee you.

There wasn't enough from polar bear fees to pay for those two fur coats.

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the leave, the latitude that has been given to me

by the government members. I look forward to the rest of the Budget debate. We

are going to be back here this week on some Estimates from the Minister of

Finance and so on, but I look forward to next week because, albeit there are

some good things, I really like some of the things in the Budget, by the way. I

really like some.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: That is right. I usually call it like I see it. If I like

something I will say it, and if I do not like it I will say it as well. I will

point out, when I come back in the Budget debate, some of the things I really,

really like about it, but you also have to point out, and I will point out, that

there is a little bit of - it is the opposite of realism - there is a little bit

of failure to acknowledge something on the governments side, and that is the

point I am going to get into when I get into the government Budget, as to why

you are whistling past the graveyard. I seriously believe that with some things

in this Budget we are whistling past the graveyard. I will back with that later.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I could not help but sit there and laugh when the hon. member got up and

talked about spin doctors. I am going to tell you now, I did not even fake the

laugh. It was an actual real laugh; it came right from here.

Talk about spin doctors. Well, when you look at the super weekend, I heard

about the super weekend and how there were twelve districts called, they got six

people to run, and guess whose fault it was, Mr. Speaker? It was the Premier's

fault, because he is so powerful and he is so good.

I could not help but laugh. Now, you talk about putting a spin on something

that is so negative for a particular political party in the Province. I never

heard anything so foolish before. If you want to talk about spins, talk about

the super weekend because that is the biggest spin I ever saw in my life.

I am going to try and walk away from that for a moment, Mr. Speaker, if I

can, because I do not want to be political. I do not want to sound too

political. I would really rather not talk about that stuff. I am trying to take

the high way and, you know, sometimes it is difficult to take the high way when

I listen to members opposite and the silly things they get on with.

I just have to refer to the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, when he talked

about the fact that he is going to vote against the Budget.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. ORAM: Listen to this, now, because this is important to the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador. Listen to what he said. He said: You know, I am going

to vote against the Budget because I do not like the tax incentive that is there

for folks in Newfou