Manitoba Hansard — 27 August 2013 (Sitting 98B, 40th Legislature, 2nd Session)

40-2-98b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session - Fortieth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker Vol. LXV No. 98B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, August 27, 2013 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli NDP BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne St.

James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St.

Johns NDP MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden PC MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon. Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel NDP MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River NDP PALLISTER, Brian Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale NDP SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto NDP WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC Vacant Morris

4551 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, August 27, 2013 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Mr. Speaker: Seeing no bills, we'll move on to– PETITIONS Provincial Road 520 Renewal Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The rural municipalities of Lac du Bonnet and Alexander are experiencing record growth due especially to an increasing number of Manitobans retiring in cottage country.

(2) The population in the RM of Lac du Bonnet grows exponentially in the summer months due to increased cottage use.

(3) Due to population gr owth, Provincial Road 520 experiences heavy traffic, especially during the summer months.

(4) PR 520 connects cottage country to the Pinawa Hospital and as such is frequently used by emergency medical services to transport patients.

(5) PR 520 is in such poor condition that there are serious concerns about its safety. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To urge the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation to recognize the serious safety concerns of Provincial Road 520 and to address its poor condition by prioritizing its renewal. This petition is signed by G. Maroons, K. Milne, R. Milne and many, many more fine Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: In keeping with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to have been received by the House. Provincial Sales Tax Increase–Referendum Mrs.

Leanne Rowat (Riding Mountain): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition: The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election. Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one per cent without legally required referendum. An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families. Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To ensure the provincial government–to urge the provincial government to not rai se the PST without holding a provincial referendum. This petition's signed by P. Koss, J. Ziprick, K. Holt and many more Manitobans. Hydro Capital Development–NFAT Review Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition: Manitoba Hydro was mandated by the provincial government to commence a $21- billion capital development plan to service uncertain electricity export markets.

In the last five years, competiti on from alternative energy sources is decreasing the price and demand for Manitoba's hydroelectricity and causing the financial viability of this capital plan to be questioned. The $21- billion capital plan requires Manitoba Hydro to increase domestic electricity rates by up to 4 per cent annually for the next 20 years and possibly more if export opportunities fail to materialize.

4552 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA August 27, 2013 We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge that the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro create a complete and transparent needs-for-and-alternatives-to review of Manitoba Hydro's total capital development plan to ensure the financial viability of Manitoba Hydro. And this petition is signed by A. Wiens, R. Friesen, K. Karlowsky and many more fine Manitobans. Provincial Sales Tax Increase– Cross-Border Shopping Mr. Cliff Cullen (Spruce Woods): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

These are the reasons for this petition: Manitoba has a thriving and competitive ret ail environment in the communities near its borders, including Bowsman, Swan River, Minitonas, Benito, Russell, Binscarth, St -Lazare, Birtle, Elkhorn, Virden, Melita, Waskada, Boissevain, Deloraine, Cartwright, Pilot Mound, Crystal City, Manitou, Morden, W inkler, Plum Coulee, Altona, Gretna, Emerson, Morris, Killarney, Sprague, Vita, Reston, Pierson, Miniota, McAuley, St. Malo, Foxwarren, Roblin and many others.

Both the Saskatchewan PST rate and the North Dakota retail sales tax rate are 5 per cent, and the Minnesota retail sales tax rate is 6 per cent. The retail sales tax is 40 per cent cheaper in North Dakota and Saskatchewan and 25 per cent cheaper in Minnesota as compared to Manitoba. The differential in tax rates creates a disincentive for Manitoba consumers to shop locally to purchase their goods and services.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To acknowledge that the increase in the PST will significantly encourage cross -border shopping and put additional strain on the retail sector, especially for those businesses located close to Manitoba's provincial borders. To urge the provincial government to reverse its PST increase to ensure Manitoba consumers can shop affordably in Manitoba and support local businesses. This petition is signed by R. Ashton, L. Stoodley, W. Klassen and many other fine Manitobans. Provincial Sales Tax Increase–Referendum Mr.

Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election.

(2) Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum.

(3) An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families.

(4) Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petitio n the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. This petition is submitted on behalf of J. Chambers, P. See, K. Hildebrand and many other fine Manitobans. Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election.

(2) Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum.

(3) An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families.

(4) Bill 20 strips M anitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

August 27, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4553 To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. And, M r. Speaker, this petition is signed by K. Plohman, D. Smith, M. Morantz and many, many other Manitobans. Provincial Sales Tax Increase– Cross-Border Shopping Mr. Stuart Briese (Agassiz): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

And these are the reasons for this petition: Manitoba has a thriving and competitive retail environment in communities near its borders, including Bowsman, Swan River, Minitonas, Benito, Roblin, Binscarth, St -Lazare, Birtle, Elkhorn, Virden, Melita, Waskada, Boissevain, Deloraine, Cartwright, Pilot Mound, Crystal City, Manitou, Morden, Winkler, Plum Coulee, Altona, Gretna, Emerson, Morris, Killarney, Sprague, Vita, Reston, Pierson, Miniota, McAuley, St. Malo, Foxwarren, Roblin and many others.

Both the Saskatchewan PST rate and the North Dakota retail sales tax rate are 5 per cent, and the Minnesota retail sales tax rate is 6 per cent. The retail sales tax rate is 40 per cent cheaper in North Dakota and Saskatchewan and 25 per cent cheaper in Minnesota as compared to Manitoba. The differential in tax rates creates a disincentive for Manitoba consumers to shop locally to purchase their goods and services. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: * (13:40)

(1) To acknowledge that the increase in the PST will significantly encourage cross -border shopping and put additional strain on the retail sector, especially for those businesses located close to the – Manitoba's provincial borders. And

(2) To urge the provincial government to reverse its PST increase to ensure Manitoba consumers can shop affordably in Manitoba and support local businesses. This petition is signed by B. Dyck, J. G raydon, G. Larivière and many other fine Manitobans. Applied Behaviour Analysis Services Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

The background to this petition is as follows: The provincial government broke a commitment to support families of children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied behavioural analysis, also known as ABA services. The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes the importance of early intervention for children with autism. School learning services has its first ever waiting list which started with two children.

The waiting list is projected to keep growing and to be in excess of 20 children by September 2013. Therefore, these children will go through the biggest transition of their lives without receiving ABA services that has helped other children achieve huge gains. The provincial government has adopted a policy to eliminate ABA services in schools by grade 5 despite the fact that these children have been diagnosed with autism which still requires therapy. These children are being denied necessary ABA services that will allow them to access the same educational opportunities as any other Manitoban.

Waiting lists and denials of treatment are unacceptable. No child should be denied access to or eliminated from eligibility for ABA services if their need still exists. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Education consider making funding available to eliminate the current waiting list for ABA school -age services and fund ABA services for individuals diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. And this petition is signed by M. Taillieu, W. Taillieu, L. Gavrailoff and many, many other fine Manitobans.

4554 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA August 27, 2013 Provincial Sales Tax Increase– Cross-Border Shopping Mr. Ron Schuler (St. Paul): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present th e following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition:

(1) Manitoba has a thriving and competitive retail environment in communities near its borders, including Bowsman, Swan River, Minitonas, Benito, Russell, Binscarth, St- Lazare, Birtle, Elkhorn, Virden, Melita, Waskada, Boissevain, Deloraine, Cartwright, Pilot Mound, Crystal City, Manitou, Morden, Winkler, Plum Coulee, Altona, Gretna, Emerson, Morris, Killarney, Sprague, Vita, Reston, Pierson, Miniota, McAuley, St. Malo, Foxwarren, Roblin and many others.

(2) Both the Saskatchewan PST rate and North Dakota retail sales tax rate are 5 per cent, and the Minnesota retail sales tax rate is 6 per cent.

(3) The retail sales tax rate is 40 per cent cheaper in North Dakota and Saskatchewan and 25 per cent cheaper in Minnesota as compared to Manitoba.

(4) The differential in tax rates creates a disincentive for Manitoba consumers to shop locally to purchase their goods and services. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To acknowledge that the increase in the PST will significantly encourage cross -border shopping and put additional strain on the retail sector, especially with those businesses located close to Manitoba's provincial borders.

(2) To urge the provincial government to reverse its PST increase to ensure Manitoba consumers can shop affordably in Manitoba and support local businesses. And this is signed by R. Matthew s, H. Gilleshammer, K. Deslauriers and many, many other fine Manitobans. Applied Behaviour Analysis Services Mr. Dennis Smook (La Verendrye) : I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provincial government broke a commitment to support families of children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied beha vioural analysis, also known as ABA services.

(2) The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes the importance of early intervention for children with autism.

(3) The preschool waiting list for ABA ser vices has reached its high est level ever with at least 56 children waiting for services. That number is expected to exceed 70 children by September 2013 despite commitments to reduce the waiting list and provide timely access to services.

(4) The provinc ial government policy of eliminating ABA services in schools by grade 5 has caused many children in Manitoba to age out of the window for this very effective ABA treatment because of lack of access. Many more children are expected to age out because of a l ack of available treatment spaces.

(5) Waiting lists and denials of treatment are unacceptable. No child should be denied access to or age out of eligibility for ABA services. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Family Services and Labour consider making funding available to address the current waiting list for ABA services. This petition is signed by J. Malanchuk, B. Vedoya, D. Carrière and many more fine Manitobans. Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

And the background to this petition is as follows: The provincial government broke a commitment to support families of children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied behavioural analysis, also known as ABA services.

(2) The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes the importance of early intervention for children with autism.

August 27, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4555

(3) The preschool waiting list for ABA services has reached its high est level ever with at least 56 children waiting for services. That number is expected to exceed 70 children by September 2013 despite commitments to reduce the waiting list and provide timely access to services.

(4) The provincial government 's policy of eliminating ABA services in schools by grade 5 has caused many children in Manitoba to age out of the window for this very effective AB A treatment because of a lack of access. Many more children are expected to age out because of a lack of available treatment spaces.

(5) Waiting lists and denials of treatment are unacceptable. No child should be denied access to or age out of the eligibility for ABA services. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Family Services and Labour consider making funding available to address a current waiting list for ABA services. And this petition is signed by J. Javier, D. Stepic, T. Dowhan and many, many more fine Manitobans. Provincial Sales Tax Increase–Referendum Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

And these are the reasons for this petition: The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election. Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum. An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families. Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum.

This petition signed by J. Ross, C. Asham, E. Porter and many, many more fine Manitobans. Hydro Capital Development–NFAT Review Mr. Cameron Friesen (Morden -Winkler): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition: * (13:50)

(1) Manitoba Hydro was mandated by the provincial government to commence a $21- billion capital development plan to se rvice uncertain electricity export markets.

(2) In the last five years, competition from alternative energy sources is decreasing the price and demand for Manitoba's hydroelectricity and causing the financial viability of this capital plan to be questioned.

(3) The $21- billion capital plan requires Manitoba Hydro to increase domestic electricity rates by up to 4 per cent annually for the next 20 years and possibly more if export opportunities fail to materialize. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge that the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro create a complete and transparent needs-for-and-alternatives-to review of Manitoba Hydro's total capital development plan to ensure the financial viability of Manitoba Hydro. And this petition is signed by W. Taillieu, M. Taillieu, L. Gavrailoff and many, many others. Mr.

Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) Manitoba Hydro was mandated by the provincial government to commence a $21- billion capital development plan to service uncertain electricity export markets.

(2) In the last five years, competition from alternative energy sources is decreasing the price and demand for Manitoba's hydroelectricity and causing the financial viability of this capital plan to be questioned.

(3) The $21- billion capital plan requires Manitoba Hydro to increase domestic electricity rates by up to 4 per cent an nually for the next

4556 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA August 27, 2013 20 years and possibly more if export opportunities fail to materialize. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro to create a complete and transparent needs-for-and-alternatives-to review of Manitoba Hydro's total capital development plan and to ensure the financial viability of Manitoba Hydro. And this petition is signed by J. McLaughlin, D. Bilodeau, K. Coughlin and many other Manitobans. Introduction of Guests Mr.

Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today family members of the honourable member for Fort Garry-Riverview (Mr. Allum), his father, Reverend Dr. Walter Allum, and his daughters, Sarah Jean Allum and Hilary Allum. And also with us today in the public gallery we have Ray Burns and Phoebe Burns who are the guests of the honourable member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh). And also in the public gallery is Mark Sefton who is the guest of the honourable member for Brandon-East (Mr. Caldwell).

On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you here this afternoon. ORAL QUESTIONS Deputy Premier Email Correspondence Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, my questions pertain to the unfortunate comments of the Deputy Premier (Mr. Robinson) concerning the alleged ignorance of do-good white people. The minister responded with essentially what was a non -apology and has claimed that his remarks are not racist in nature. The Premier has explained that the minister has done some good things, which we do not dispute, but then he follows with no action whatsoever.

I'm genuinely sorry t hat the minister has experienced racism as a young man, but that's not an excuse for repeating the behaviour. The minister has stated that he did not believe his comment was racist. He has said, quote: I don't think so. I've heard wors e things said about m e. That does not justify his comments. Does the Premier acknowledge that his deputy's comments were racist in nature? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the Deputy Premier has withdrawn his comments. He's expressed regret and he's apologized for it.

This is a very significant contrast to the Leader of the Opposition; when he makes inappropriate comments he flat out denies them. And so I want to give credit to the Deputy Premier for stepping up, acknowledging that he could have had a better choice of his words even though he was concerned about the fundraising activity with respect to this particular agency. But he did step up and he did acknowledge that he could have had a better choice of words and he did apologize for it, and I think he set a good example in doing that. Removal From Cabinet Request Mr.

Pallister: I'd encourage the Premier to deal in the reality and not fantasy, Mr. Speaker. It is a never-ending cycle. We cannot here in this province or anywhere in this world combat racism eff ectively if we allow racism to be used as an excuse for racism. Now, the Premier is making inexcusable excuses. He's deeply misguided in doing so. He has said it was a private communication of a –and why would a private communication of a racist nature be blacked out at all in a freedom of information response?

Should we be expected to accept the argument here that racism in private is acceptable behaviour for a senior government minister? The Premier seems to believe that the solution to his problem is da mage control or deflection, more privacy, more limited access to information, perhaps more black markers. But that is not the answer. Will he do the right thing today, show some leadership and remove from Cabinet his Deputy Premier? Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Spe aker, unlike probably any other member in this House, this particular member of the Legislature, the Deputy Premier and the Minister for Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, has been a champion for victims of violence since the earliest days of his presence in the House and even before that. He was one of the first people that met with the family of Helen Betty Osborne to acknowledge their suffering and the loss of their loved one. He was the one that championed that

August 27, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4557 cause over many years, and now we have a Hel en Betty Osborne foundation. He was one of the first leaders –political leaders elected anywhere in Canada that championed the case of missing and murdered Aboriginal women and moved that issue forward. And now today, across the country, including in Manit oba, we have police departments working with communities to do proper investigations, and they're starting to get to the cause of how these women have disappeared.

And where they see the sufficient evidence, they're bringing charges, and there's much more attention being paid to this issue. This is a man that has provided leadership across this country. I think we can all, in this Legislature, be very proud of what he's accomplished on behalf of all of us. Mr. Pallister: Whatever work I may have done ove r a decade in my life for matrimonial property rights for Aboriginal women does not entitle me to make a negative or disparaging comment about any race, any person of a different creed or colour. That is not an excuse that has any justification to it.

The Premier is setting the bar so low that his Cabinet members cannot possibly get under it. The Deputy Premier (Mr. Robinson) has said, and I quote: What I'm talking about is a general statement, and I'm entitled to say that. He is not. That is stereotypin g. That is an oversimplified opinion, a prejudiced attitude and uncritical judgment, and Manitobans deserve more than that. They deserve more than an Education Minister that labels her opponents on a bill as homophobes. It deserves more than a remark by the member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) directed to me yesterday during my question, calling me a homophobe.

It deserves better than that. We all deserve better than that in this province and in this House. The Premier's inaction invites a repeat of this represent–reprehensible behaviour, Mr. Speaker. We need a better workplace here; I agree with your observations. Will the Premier do something to better this workplace? Will he remove his Deputy Premier from his Cabinet today? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, the Deputy Premier, as I said earlier, has made and continues to make a very significant contribution to reducing the risk for missing and murdered women throughout this country.

He chaired the Aboriginal affairs ministers meeting in Winnipeg this spring where a unanimous consensus was reached that there needs to be a national inquiry on missing and murdered women. This set the stage for the premiers to discuss this at the Council of the Federation in Niagara-on-the-Lake just this last month. And for the first time in the history of Canada, the premiers unanimously, and I mean unanimously, all 13 of them, supported a national inquiry on missing and murdered women within this country. It was because of the leadership of Deputy Premier Robinson that that occurred.

The leader opposite stands up here with all his sanctimony; when he makes disparaging comments in this House and is called on that, he denies it. When he does it a second time, he denies it. He doesn't take responsibility for his behaviour. He has such a sense of immunity from any accountability for his behaviour, and at the same time, he thinks he can levy judgment on other people. Mr. Speaker, that's– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. First minister's time has expired. Deputy Premier Email Correspondence Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): An email received last week revealed a racist comment made by the Deputy Premier.

He referred to do-good white people when referring to volunteers and the women who run Osborne House. He then, on APTN, refused to apologize, suggesting it was because we know there is a lot of those people around–another racist remark, Mr. Speaker. He then sent out a statement with an insincere apology late Friday. To top it all off, yesterday, the minister appeared to retract his apology by defending his racist comments because he believes he is entitled to make such comments. * (14:00) Mr.

Speaker, wouldn't it be more becoming of a minister of the Crown to take steps to stop the chain of racism rather than perpetuate it by claiming he is entitled to say such things? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): That's where the Deputy Premier deserves credit. He recognized that his words could have been chosen more carefully. He regretted the expression of those words, whether private or otherwise, and he apologized for that, which puts the bar far higher for him than any member on the opposite side of the House who have

4558 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA August 27, 2013 never admitted, ever, that they've ever done anything wrong. They've never admitted it, that they've made an inappropriate comment, ever, in their lives, and certainly not in the Legislature. That is a denial of reality from what we've s een in the House. And Mr. Speaker, you know full well that we've had to do a lot of work to bring this House under a better code of conduct, and that is something that we all have to do.

I say this to the member opposite, that the very reason that we're here in this Legislature is to try to further human rights, not only in this province but across the country, which is, for example, why we put Bill 18 forward on antibullying, which is why we think it's important for the public to have a say on that and which is why we will continue to find ways to move forward. And where we make errors we will take responsibility for them and then find ways to improve the way we behave ourselves. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. First Minister's time has expired. Mrs. Stefanson: Mr.

Speaker, racism in any and all of its forms is not acceptable, including racism inflicted on the minister or anyone else in our society. But the Deputy Premier (Mr. Robinson) obviously feels he is entitled to say whatever he wants, including racist remarks. Does the Premier agree with the Deputy Premier that he is entitled to further inflict racist remarks on others? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, I believe I've addressed this question. The Deputy Premier made an apology for his regrettable remarks.

That sets a high–'farstar'– higher bar than any member of the opposite side of the House has ever achieved for any negative comment they've ever made, either under their breath or on the record, in public or in private. We've never seen them ever accept that they could possibly say anything wrong. There's never been an error that they have made. It's always been something relating to something else. It's always been a form of denial, and this form of denial–they said that we should stop building the floodway, and then they denied that they're opposed to the floodway.

They said that they're in favour of Bill 18 on antibullying, but they're not prepared to hear the public speak on Bill 18 or let the bill come to debate in the Legislature. Look, everybody is a human being, and everybody's going to make errors from time to time. It's how you deal with that. When a member stands up and apologizes for that, that means he's done the right thing. Removal From Cabinet Request Mrs. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, it' s time to stop the chain of racism, not encourage it.

By allowing this minister to get away with such comments sends a message to Manitobans by this government that it's okay to do that. Will the Premier do the right thing today, Mr. Speaker, and remove his minister from Cabinet? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, I know the member from Tuxedo has a carefully prepared question. The member who made the inappropriate comments has taken responsibility for them. He has expressed his regret about them, and he has apologized for them. But he still continues to be a champion for people that are the victims of violence, particularly women.

He still continues to be a champion for missing and murdered women across this country. That contribution has made a signal differenc e in the way police do their business across this country. I wish the members opposite had somebody that was championing a cause as noble as that on their side of the House. I wish the members opposite could admit that they could possibly say something wrong and apologize for it. I wish that they could do that.

I do know that we make errors on this side of the House, and when there's an error made, we fess up to it, we take responsibility for it, we apologize for it, and then, with that full reality in fr ont of us, we try to do better. Deputy Premier Email Correspondence Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, in an email obtained through FIPPA, the following quote by the Deputy Premier was blacked out, and I quote: "It also further demonstrates t he ignorance of do-good white people without giving it a second thought." End quote.

The Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act office said its decision to redact the minister's inflammatory comment was covered under

section 23(1)(

a) of the act, to protect against material that would, and I quote: "reveal advice, opinions, proposals, recommendations, analyses or policy options developed by or for the public body or a minister." Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask this Premier: Is this, in fact, the advice or opinion of his government?

August 27, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4559 Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Again, Mr. Speaker, it's very clear that the minister has taken responsibility for the comments and apologized for them. So he's regretting what has been said. And it is also very clear under freedom of information and 'protectioncy' privacy act, which the member has quoted, 23.1(a), that there is the possibility of redacting advice, opinions, proposals, recommendations, analysis or policy options developed by or for the public body or a minister.

But that, quite frankly, is beside the point because the minister has now accepted responsibility for that comment, has apologized for that comment and, therefore, he has tried to correct the record and he's done that publicly in a very responsible way. Mr. Ewasko: Mr. Speaker, I'm going to have to take that answer as a yes to my question. I find the whole sad situation quite disappointing. The Deputy Premier (Mr. Robinson) continued in an interview with APTN to say, and I quote: Because you and I know there are a lot of those types around. That is straight stereotyping. He was referencing his initial quote.

So I ask the Premier again: Is this, in fact, the advice or opinion of his government or of his own? Mr. Selinger: The short answer, Mr. Speaker, is no. Removal From Cabinet Request Mr. Ewasko: The Deputy Premier goes on to then excuse himself of what he said by saying that he feels entitled to make racist comments about non-Aboriginals. Mr. Speaker, does the minister or the Premier realize the Pandora's box they might have opened with this very disappointing statement? If another person comes from an abusive family situation, does it give them the right to abuse others?

If a person was bullied, does it give that person the right to become a bully? Of course not. Will the Premier do the right thing today and remove the Deputy Premier from his Cabinet? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, the member knows the answer to that question, and the short answer is no because we have a person here that has a stellar career of defending people that have been the victims of violence, and I have to say he championed those causes long before they were popular with the media or the public.

He championed those causes because of his own experiences, because o f his contact with families that have been victims of violence and families that needed support, and he's done that consistency over many decade. I challenge any other member of the House to show a record like that. Deputy Premier Email Correspondence Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Riding Mountain): Yesterday the Premier defended the email exchange between the Deputy Premier and a political advisor on Aboriginal women's issues.

In response to the email exchange, the Premier stated, and I quote: It was never intended f or public consumption nor was it intended to single out anybody in the community. This is a very serious issue and Manitobans are demanding a better response from this Premier. To indicate he believes it's just an error in judgment is unsettling. Does this Premier believe his Deputy Premier is not responsible for his words because an error in judgment was actually the fault of a political advisor breaching government email protocol? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): The short answer, Mr. Speaker, is no.

The member took full responsibility for the words that he put on the record. He apologized for those words. Then, again, I just have to say, that's a far higher standard of responsibility, both public and private, than any member on the opposite side of the House has demonstrated when they've made untoward and unfortunate and disparaging comments about anybody. They've always gone into flat -out denial about that. That may be their approach. The approach on this side of the House –and it's an approach that's reflected on how we try to do business.

There was a time, for example, when an error in the health-care system used to be covered up by members opposite when they were in power. We now have a critical incident process where that kind of an error is investiga ted, a report is made and a disclosure is made all for the very purpose of learning from mistakes, to be able to do things better for the future. We've done that on an individual basis. We've promoted those policies in terms of good public policy and that is the way forward in a system where things aren't perfect every single day. * (14:10) Mrs.

Rowat: The Premier yesterday stated, and I quote: The Deputy Premier's statement was made in a communication –a private communication to a staffer. Yet, the email exchange took place during regular hours, work hours and was sent through regular government email a ddresses. Mr. Speaker,

4560 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA August 27, 2013 this is a government minister in a position of authority giving advice to a political advisor through government resources on government time. Mr. Speaker, were the minister, his senior staff and his political advisor not clear in knowing their comments, at minimal, were representing the NDP government's policy position on domestic violence? Mr. Selinger: Again, Mr. Speaker, they're pursuing a line of questioning which ignores the fact that the minister has taken responsibility for his comments and apologized for them.

In the –if that were not the case, their line of questioning might have some more serious credibility to it, but in the absence of them ever taking responsibility for having ever done anything wrong in their entire car eers–it's always been flat-out denial from day one; whether it's public or private matters, it's just denial, denial, denial, denial, and then if there's any doubt about it, more denial. On this side of the House, the member has taken responsibility for his comments. He's apologized on the public record for that, and we're all learning from that.

But the most important thing is we continue to be champions for people that are victims of violence to make sure that we prevent those situations from happening anywhere in the country, in the community, and the more that we dedicate ourselves to that, the more results we'll get for all members of the public. Mrs. Rowat: Mr. Speaker, domestic violence is a very serious issue facing so many families in Manitoba, families from all walks of life, regardless of social and economic status.

It is so disappointing that once again we see this NDP government violate standards that are in place to protect and support vulnerable Manitobans. Can this Premier confirm that hi s unacceptable communication between a Cabinet minister and a political adviser on women's issues will be sanctioned, or is he prepared to own the comments made by the Deputy Premier (Mr. Robinson) of Manitoba? Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, again, I remind t he members opposite that the Deputy Premier has taken responsibility for his comments and apologized on the public record, a far higher bar of ethical conduct than we've seen from any member of the opposition, including the Leader of the Opposition, who ha s been called to account for in–unfortunate and disparaging comments he's made in this Legislature, and it's just flat -out gone out to a denial approach. And that really isn't constructive because if you're denying things all the time, you can't make improvements on it.

The Deputy Premier has acknowledged the ill – his unfortunate choice of words. He's taken responsibility for it, and he will continue to be a champion for victims of violence, missing and murdered women across this country. We need that leadership in this country. We need that leadership in the province of Manitoba. Deputy Premier Email Correspondence Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): But they – wasn't just a poor choice of words, it was a racist comment. Mr. Speaker, it makes no difference whether racist comments are made publicly or privately; racist comments are unacceptable.

They cannot and should not be defended. Yet this Premier continues to stand in his place and defend his Deputy Premier who made racist comments. How can the Premier defend his actions? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I support the member who took responsibility for his comments and apologized for them. That's why I think there's been an important move made here.

And I also support him on his lifetime que st to reduce violence to women and to reduce –to make sure that missing and murdered women are –have justice brought to their 'spersonal' circumstances and their families who he's met with on many occasions. And this is an important issue as we move forward all across this country, and that's exactly why I've taken the position I've taken, because on this side of the House, unlike members on the opposite side of the House, there is a willingness to confront errors that have been made.

There is a willingness to take responsibility for them, and there's a willingness to continue to move beyond that and make sure that we make our communities safer for all Manitobans and all Canadians. Removal From Cabinet Request Mrs. Mitchelson: But this Premier stands in his place day after day and defends a Deputy Premier who has made racist comments, and he accepts his apology. Mr. Speaker, the member for St. Norbert (Mr. Gaudreau) apologized for his homophobic comments, yet the Premier stripped him of his responsibilities as a backbencher in his government.

August 27, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4561 Yet he does nothing to a senior Cabinet minister who makes racist comments. Will the Premier stand up today, show some leadership and remove the Deputy Premier (Mr. Robinson) from his position? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, the short answer is no, and the members know that. And the short answer is the member took responsibility for his comments.

And the long answer is is that the member has a record of adult service to protecting people from violence, starting back in the days of the 1980s, when the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry looked at the circumstances of Helen Betty Osborne. This member was the person that went and worked with that family on the fact that their daughter had been murdered and championed that ca use at a time when it was extremely unpopular and there was no media attention on that.

And then when times moved forward he was of–early leader on missing and murdered Aboriginal women not only in Manitoba, but across this country, and as recently as this spring and this summer he has championed that cause further. He's making a major contribution to the country along with other ministers across the country, along with people in the community and national Aboriginal organizational leaders, as well as other leaders across the country. They're all working together to create a safer environment for 'peeper' in our communities. That's something to be supported. Mr.

Speaker: The honourable member for River East, with a final supplementary. Mrs. Mitchelson: But the Premier continues to try to defend the indefensible. Mr. Speaker, a racist comment was made by a senior Cabinet minister within his government. He has shown absolutely no leadership on this issue. He continues to defend the indefensible. Will he sta nd up today, show some backbone, take some leadership and remove the Deputy Premier from his Cabinet responsibilities? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, you've canvassed my response to the issue.

My response to the issue is is that we have an individual in the L egislature with a lifetime of adult service to protecting victims of violence, a member who, when he makes comments that he understands are inappropriate, has taken responsibility for them and apologized for them. But given his lifetime record and the cont ribution he's making today–today–right now in real time all across this country and in Manitoba on protecting and ensuring that people that have missing and murdered daughters who have disappeared, that they get justice and support and healing.

Those are i mportant contributions to the community, contributions that would be sorely missed. The members opposite, really, if they want to be as judgmental as they are, I ask them to start with themselves and ask why they deny every error in judgment they make, a sk why they deny and refuse to acknowledge every inappropriate comment they've made. Really, Mr. Speaker, what we're seeing in the House today is a gigantic double standard. Deputy Premier FIPPA Reply Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr.

Speaker, under the freedom of information rules government has the opportunity to hide information if it believes that it is the opinion of government or if it is the advice to government. The NDP decided to hide the phrase, ignorance of do- good white people. That means that it was either the opinion of government or it was advice to government, or there's a third option, that they were trying to hide that phrase, that racist comment to try to protect the Deputy Premier. Can the Premier tell us today: Was it hidden, was it redacted because they were trying to cover up for the Deputy Premier? Hon.

Greg Selinger (Premier): Short answer, Mr. Speaker, was standard procedures were followed for the FIPPA information request, and those procedures include officials in the departme nt signing off on it, including at the senior level, and as the member knows it's covered under

section 23.1(

a) which has been read into the record by his own members. And the most salient point, the most pertinent point is the member has accepted responsibility for the unfortunate choice of words. He has apologized for that which, I have to say again, is a higher standard than any member on the other side of the House has ever practised with any indiscretionary statement they've ever made in this H ouse or elsewhere. Mr. Goertzen: Under our freedom of information laws in this province, Mr.

Speaker, the government can hide information if it believes that the information is the opinion of the government or advice to the government. Now, earlier in question period the Premier said that this wasn't–this racist comment that the –was not the opinion of government.

4562 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA August 27, 2013 Was it advice to the government or were you simply trying to cover up for the Deputy Premier (Mr. Robinson)? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, let me be succinct in my answer: neither. Mr. Goertzen: Can the Premier try to identify, under the freedom of information laws, what the rationale and reason was for covering up the phrase: ignorance of do- good white people?

It would seem, on a common-sense reading, the only reason to cover that phrase up was because it was a racist comment and to try to protect his Deputy Premier. * (14:20) Can you try to explain, under our laws, under our freedom from information laws, why that was redacted and covered up if it wasn't to protect the Deputy Premier? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, I gave him a very succinct answer on that, on his question just before this one. I said it was neither of the above. It followed standard procedure conducted by public servants inside the government. The minister has taken responsibility for the comment.

He has apologized for the comment, which again is a far higher standard than any member opposite has practised in any untoward comments they've made in this Legislature or outside of this Legislature.

The way we move forward on learning how to protect human rights and learning how to protect citizens is to recognize any errors we may make in this regard, to acknowledge them and then to continue to devote our energies as public –elected public officials to making our communities safer, which is one of the reasons why we have Bill 18 in the Legislature –which does not explain why the members opposite refuse to hear that bill, wish to have a proper debate on that bill. And the reality is, Mr. Speaker, that bill has been called many, many times.

And if we really want to make Manitobans safer let's get on with legislation that will protect all Manitobans. Osborne House Government Funding Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, at a time when vital issues like the health of women and children in our province should be our focus, we're being distracted by this burlesque sideshow. You know, Mr. Speaker, burlesque dancing is but an example of one of the many cultural expressions in our provi nce. And you shouldn't be targeted inappropriately by Cabinet ministers.

It's troubling how this NDP government has failed to stand up and support Osborne House, failing to increase its funding when needed and insulting the very support services badly ne eded by the vulnerable women and children trying to escape domestic violence in Manitoba. Will the Premier guarantee that his government will not turn its back on the women who need the services of Osborne House by pulling away funding as a result of this issue? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, we continue to advance issues of protecting women who are the victims of violence.

I recently was at an event where, for the first time ever, we enlisted the support of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers on sendi ng very clear messages that domestic violence is unacceptable, and some of the people that were stepping forward to do that, had seen that, had those experiences in their own lives, and now we're standing forward as leaders in the community to do that. We provide significant funding to our domestic shelters in Manitoba and we'll continue to do that.

I only need to remind members opposite that they wanted to cut all those programs this year, that was their proposal –indiscriminate, across -the-board cuts, tough love and a chill on public services. They would have cut domestic -violence services in Manitoba. They would have reduced those services. They would have put people on layoff. That's not the approach we chose, Mr. Speaker. We chose to protect those services. Nutritional Deficiencies in Children Reduction Strategies Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, continuing on women and children's health in Manitoba, there are many reasons for concern.

But one of these is the government's own report which says with respect to First Nations people in Manitoba that vitamin D levels in most pregnant women and their infants are in the deficient or insufficient range. Dr. Bob Schroth reports 80 per cent of the pregnant women in inner -city Winnipeg have low vitamin D levels. Not only is vitamin D badly needed for healthy bones and teeth; low levels of

August 27, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4563 vitamin D may lead to the development of type 1, insulin-dependent diabetes. I ask the Premier: Will he admit that this is a problem and will he commit to the a ll–co-ordinated all-party approach to delivering a solution to this as soon as possible? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): I thank the member for the question. This is a question he raised with us last week. He does know that in Manitoba we invest up to $400 million for children in the preschool phase of their life.

And one of the things we do is we provide prenatal benefits to women in Manitoba who are going–in the process of having a child. We have home visits that go out and visit them frequently, public health nurses that do that. We have family resource centres, of which we've invested significant millions of dollars to create safe spaces in communities where young parents can come and learn the skills of parenting and to be able to support each other as they go through that important part of their roles in life. And, Mr.

Speaker, we are very committed to that; that includes nutrition, that includes proper nutrition including vitamin D and we're very interested in finding ways to ensure that people have the nutrients they need to support healthy children and to support themselves. Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a final supplementary. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, the Premier is doing a lot of things, but they're missing a target because the deficiencies are still there in extremely high proportion. Mr.

Speaker, at a hearing of the healthy kids task force in 2005, Lisa Kehler described children whose teeth hurt so badly that they could hardly eat. It was evident from stories like these that we need to do far better than what the 2005 task force proposed. Indeed, in the eight years since, efforts have had little impact with no improvement in the rates of early childhood tooth decay. We now need a commitment to eliminate nutritional deficiencies in Manitoba as soon as possible and with an effective plan to do this.

Are the Premier and his ministers ready to participate in an all -party co -ordinated effort to do this, because his effort to date has failed? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, the member opposite has voted against every additional resource we've tried to provide to Manitobans for healthy foods. We had about a handful of community gardens in northern Manitoba a decade ago. We have close to over 900 – [interjection] I hear the minis ter responsible saying close to a thousand now. These are gardens that provide nutritious vegetables to people in their communities. They're growing those vegetables.

They're doing it together. They're developing their sense of neighbourhood. They're learning about healthy foods. These are very important investments. We were the lead donor to The Winnipeg Foundation who has set up a permanent fund called Nourishing Potential. That fund has invested at least $400,000 to date on a variety of food security programs all across Manitoba: breakfast programs for children, community gardening projects, a variety of innovations connected to what people in their local communities and schools and neighbourhoods think will make a difference for their people.

We just a nnounced last week, up at NorWest health clinic, a program to help people learn the skills of healthy cooking and how to do that together and how to provide proper nutrition to themselves. We're very interested in food security. It's one of the planks of our poverty reduction strategy, and I invite– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The first minister's time has expired. Divided Highway Improvements Government Investment Mr. Clarence Pettersen (Flin Flon): We know that under this government we have seen historic investments in the roads and bridges that our economy relies on.

The new Manitoba Building and Renewal Plan will make a record $622 -million investment in provincial highways and bridges. We have tak en a balanced approach that makes investments in flood protection and critical infrastructure, stimulating the economy and creating over a hundred thousand jobs over the next decade. Could the Minister responsible for Infrastructure and Transportation ple ase update the House on improvements currently under way on recent highway improvements? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation ): Well, Mr.

Speaker, it is summer in Manitoba, also known as construction season, and I'm –again, I'm going to apologize for significant construction -related delays on our highways this year.

4564 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA August 27, 2013 I am very pleased that we are moving on some very significant projects, the upgrading of the Trans-Canada in Headingley; in Brandon, Victoria Avenue. In fact, you look around this province, we're involved in historic investment, and I want to put on the record, by the way, that we've gone from about $85 million in capital spending from the Tories when they were in government in the 1990s to $468 million.

Now, we know their position because not only do they not ask questions on highways, they vote against a budget that provides the funding for that, and I want to say to the member for Flin Flon, we're also working on the long-term issues including in his riding on Hi ghway 10. In fact, our budget and our government is about infrastructure. They are against it. That is our record, and that is their record as well. Mr. Speaker: I want to caution members of the House, please.

I know I've said this quite a few times before but when we're asking questions and we're answering questions, I'd like to have the comments come through the Chair, please, both ways. The honourable member for St. Paul has the floor. Keeyask Community Centre Project Update Mr. Ron Schuler (St. Paul): I have pictures to table for the Legislature. Three weeks ago, the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro said that in two weeks there would be a second sod- turning for the TCN Keeyask Centre. If you look at the photo, skulking in the back is the membe r for Thompson. He was at the first sod-turning.

Seeing as the minister doesn't seem to be able to tell us when exactly this second sod-turning is going to be, perhaps it could be the member for Thompson could tell us, seeing as he was at the first one. When will the second sod -turning be for the TCN Keeyask Centre sod-turning? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act): And, Mr. Speaker, I had occasion to talk to the chief and through the chief to the council w ho are responsible for that, and he was quite disturbed and upset with some of the comments by the member for St.

Paul, but the member is entitled, I suppose, to his opinion. But what he did advise me is that he would be communicating directly with the member for St. Paul to try to clear up the member's misunderstanding of the relationship that occurs up in that community. * (14:30) Deputy Premier Resignation Request Mr. Reg Helwer (Brandon West): Mr. Speaker, Manitoba has the dubious distinction of a high rate of violence against women, over twice the national average.

Most violent crimes against women are the result of domestic violence, and these statistics remain high despite the NDP government's lip service to this problem. Behind those statistics are real victims. Women's shelters in Manitoba attempt to help those victims break this cycle of violence. When those shelters are attached by racist comments made by a Deputy Premier (Mr. Robinson) it demeans their good work. Will the Deputy Premier stop try ing to defend his racist comments and resign today? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, a focus on domestic violence is a very appropriate focus for members of this Legislature. There's a million dollars in capital improvements going into shelters and other family violence facilities owned by the Province as we speak. We are working with communities on very specific strategies. The member in question is providing national leadership on this issue at the ministerial table which has been able to translate into all the premiers for the first time in the history of this country taking a stand on a national inquiry for missing and murdered women all across this country, Mr. Speaker.

That is profoundly important progress that we're making in our society, and in Canada we want to make that kind of process–progress and we want to do it across party lines, which is why I was very pleased with the ministers and the premiers from provinces where governments are of different political stripes came together on this issue. The member may –has, again, taken full responsibility for his comments, but let's not denigrate the enormous progress he's made providing national leadership on this question. Mr. Helwer: Mr.

Speaker, this NDP government pretends to be concerned about victims and the cycle of domestic violence, but when they reduce programs aimed at dealing this perpetrators –the perpetrators and the victims, then it falls flat. The Deputy Premier's racist comments and the Premier's

August 27, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4565 unwillingness to deal with the issue tarnishes all the good work done by women's shelters to break the cycle of violence. Will the minister do the right thing and resign? Mr. Selinger: If the particular member or any member of his caucus was sincere they would withdraw their threat to across -the-board cuts to domestic-violence services. That's what they wanted to do, Mr. Speaker, they wanted to deliver cuts to domestic-violence programs in Manitoba. They made that extremely clear.

Across -the-board indiscriminate cuts, tough love including women's shelters, a chill, that's what they wanted to do. If they're sincere about this, they should stand up and the very next question reverse themselves and say they want to provide adequate support to those facilities. Mr. Helwer: Mr. Speaker, incidents of violence against women are a– highest in Saskatchewan and Manitoba. There are many people doing good work to try to break the cycle of violence against women. The Deputy Premier's (Mr. Robinson) racist comments damage this good work.

Will the Deputy Premier take the right step in breaking the cycle of racism, apologize and resign? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, at the risk of being repetitive, the member has taken responsibility for his comments. He has apologized and he continues to devote significant, very significant leadership to the cause of reducing violence among all women across Canada, missing and murdered women in particular. And members know very well that one –some of the thing s we've done is to reduce violence in Manitoba.

The roots to empathy program in our schools is an award -winning program which teaches people how to respect each other in terms of resolving conflict. The PAX program, which is a fancy term for teaching child ren how to resolve conflicts, again, without resorting to violence is a very important program in our schools.

The investments we make in HOUSINGFirst to allow people not to be on the street and to find a pathway back to self-sufficiency is a very importan t program, and the sporting programs that we put out there which teach a respectful approach to sport are all initiatives that we have funded and supported, and the members opposite want to cut them. Where's their sincerity on this issue when they want to cut these services? Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. Speaker's Rulings Mr. Speaker: I have a ruling for the House. Order, please.

During oral questions on August the 8th, 2013, the honourable Official Opposition House Leader (Mr. Goertzen) raised a point of order regarding an answer provided by the honourable Minister of Education (Ms. Allan). The honourable Official Opposition House Leader suggested that the minister's answer reflected on members of the Legislature and on this House . The honourable Minister of Justice (Mr. Swan) spoke to the point of order before I took the matter under advisement to review Hansard.

I have reviewed the Hansard transcript from the date in question, and although there were strong differences of opinion in the House, I must indicate that there was no breach of a rule or practice in the comments made by the honourable Minister of Education. As O'Brien and Bosc stated on page 510 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice: "The Speaker ensures that replies adhere to the dictates of order, decorum and parliamentary language. The Speaker, however, is not responsible for the quality or content of replies to questions." End of quotations.

Several Manitoba Speakers, including myself, on many occasions, have upheld this principle in a number of rulings made from this Chair. Accordingly, from a strictly procedural point of view, I would rule that the honourable Official Opposition House Leader did not have a point of order. However, I would like to take this opportunity to comment on the conduct of members in this House in recent weeks and to address the honourable Official Opposition House Leader's point regarding the reflecting on members and on this House.

I am aware that there are currently many important issues before this Assembly, issues on which members hold strong and divergent views and 'op'–or, pardon me –opinions. It is entirely appropriate for members to hold these strong and divergent opinions on these issues. One of the basic principles of democracy is the fact that elected representatives can disagree in a place like this. Despite these disagreements, though, members should still conduct themselves in an orderly manner and show respect for one 'anonner' –'oth'–one another and for the institution they serve.

4566 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA August 27, 2013 It is on this last point where I must raise a concern. As members know, I believe strongly in the principles of a respectful workplace, namely, the right of everyone in the workplace to expect to be treated respectfully and to response –and the responsibility of everyone in their workplace to refrain from disrespectful behaviour. As your Speaker, I try every day to hold everyone, including myself, to that standard.

I would like to –I would like all members to consider these sentiments a nd to strive to set a new and better standard for our behaviour in this historic place by showing respect for each other and especially for this institution, even when disagreeing on important issues. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Official Opposition House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I'd like to thank you for your ruling. Mr. Speaker: I have another ruling for the House. Order, please. Following the prayer on Monday, August the 12th, 2013, the honourable member for Riding Mountain (Mrs.

Rowat) raised a matter of priv ilege, contending that her privileges were violated by government staff members who were interrupting and interfering with a media scrum where the honourable member for Riding Mountain was answering questions addressed by the media. She asserted this prevented her from carrying out her duties as an MLA and that it impacted her freedom of speech and served as an attempt to intimidate her. The honourable Government House Leader (Ms. Howard), the honourable member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard) and the honourable Official Opposition House Leader (Mr.

Goertzen) also offered commentary on the issue. I took the matter under advisement in order to consult with the procedural authorities. I thank the honourable members for their advice to the Chair. * (14:40) There are two conditions that must be satisfied in order for the matter raised to be ruled in order as a prima facie case of privilege. First, was the issue raised at the earliest opportunity, and, second, has it been demonstrated that the matter's privile ges have been breached in order toward putting the matter to the House.

The member indicated that the actions complained of occurred on the previous Thursday afternoon after oral questions, but did not elaborate on her inability to raise the matter of pri vilege in the House on that same Thursday afternoon, after the activities in question had occurred. It would be helpful if, in the future, the honourable member and, in fact, all honourable members raving–raising privilege would provide additional information to the Speaker to demonstrate that the matter is being raised at the earliest available opportunity. I'm not saying that this matter is out of order, due to timeliness.

I'm merely requesting that members provide more detail about the earliest opportuni ty to the Chair when raising the matter. On the second issue, whether sufficient evidence has been provided to demonstrate that a prima facie breach of privilege has occurred, there are a number of considerations that must be taken into account. As always, when dealing with privilege, the Speaker only considers the procedural aspects and does not rule on the substance of the issues involved.

First, in order for a breach of privilege to have occurred, Joseph Maingot advises on page 222 of the second edi tion of Parliamentary Privilege in Canada that the activity in question must involve a proceeding in Parliament, which means taking place in the House or in a committee. This concept is supported by rulings since Speaker Rocan in 1988 and 1991, by rulings from Speaker Hickes in 2003 and 2008 and by rulings that I delivered in this house on May 13th and May 21st, 2013.

As I noted in my May 13th and May 21st, 2013 rulings, activities such as debate in the Chamber do constitute a proceeding in Parliament, while events taking place outside of the Chamber do not fall within that purview. A news scrum taking place in the hallways of the Legislative Building would not constitute a proceeding of Parliament. Maingot also advises on page 224 that parliamentary privilege is concerned with the special rights of members not in their capacity as ministers or party leaders, whips, parliamentary secretaries or critics, but strictly in their capacities as members in their parliamentary work.

From the description provided by the member, it would appear that she had spoken to the media in her capacity as a critic for a specific government department, so she would not be covered by the protection of parliamentary privilege in that role. In her submission, the member also made reference to her freedom of speech being impacted by actions she complained of. With respect to this

August 27, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4567 aspect, O'Brien and Bosc advise on page 91 of the second edition of the House of Commons Procedure and Practice that the privilege of freedom of speech is generally regarded as being limited to proceedings in Parliament, meaning that members are not provided this protection for comments made outside of the Chamber.

Regarding the issue of intimidation of a member, O'Brien and Bosc advise on page 109 that in order to find a prima facie breach of privilege, the Speaker must be satisfied there is evidence to support the member's claim that he or she has been impeded in the performance of his or her parliamentary functions and that the matter is directly relate d to a proceeding in Parliament. As identified earlier in the ruling, media scrum taking place outside the Chamber is not classified as a proceeding in Parliament. For the reasons cited, I must therefore rule there is no prima facie case of privilege.

That being said, the member raising an issue that does appear to have merit as a complaint or grievance, as both she and the honourable Government House Leader cited difficulties with MLAs and staff at press scrums. The Government House Leader has already expressed a willingness to sit down with the member to discuss the issue and I would encourage such a meeting to take place. As Speaker, I do have concerns about members– making sure members treat each other respectfully and that staff working for members or caucuses also provide respectful treatment to MLAs on all sides of the House.

If discussions between the two sides are unable to resolve the situation, I would be willing to facilitate discussions and meetings in my office to ensure that members are tr eated with both –with courtesy by staff on both sides during scrums. Now, we'll proceed with– MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Morden Corn and Apple Festival Mr. Cameron Friesen (Morden -Winkler): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate Morden on its successful 46th Corn and Apple Festival. There's truly something for everyone.

Is what has become known as the premiere street festival in Manitoba whether you come for the midway, the Saturday morning parade, the farmers' market, the crafters' tent, the vendors and merc hants, or the main stage entertainment and fantastic food. Of course, there's always the free corn and free apple cider. Under a blazing sun, I worked alongside Mayor Ken Wiebe and Portage-Lisgar MP, Candice Bergen, to give away corn to people who were ha ving fun and enjoying the time with family.

Spoke to one group of visitors from Mariapolis and Somerset who said they made the trip every single year; it's just part of their summer. Another woman from south Winnipeg shared that her father, before he pas sed, drove his antique tractor in the parade every year, and that now she and her husband attend the festival and watch the parade in his memory.

Behind the scenes of this signature event, 40 committee chairpersons and a thousand community volunteers work to make this festival the success that it is, assisting with parade marshalling, stage set -up, vendor relations and the famous corn giveaway, husking and serving, as well as administrating street space or assisting with one of the three entertainment stages. The weekend was filled with Canadian rockers hitting the stage. Winnipeg band, Harlequin, played Saturday night. Trooper played to a record crowd on Friday. Stage Manager Gerry Enns said he didn't think he'd ever seen a bigger crowd.

It's the third year that the festival's been supported by Heritage Canada through their Building Communities Through Arts and Heritage Local Festivals funding which helped fund the local youth stage which helps to bring younger people to the festival, as well as the art walk and historic bus tours and farmers' market. Mr. Speaker, I congratulate Corn and Apple Festival Committee Chairperson, Chris MacPherson, as well as the Morden Corn and Apple executive for their excellent work again this year. See you all next year at the 48th festival. Judy Burns Hon.

Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Conservation and Water Stewardship): I rise to recognize long-term North End activist, Judy Burns. Judy was a very determined woman who cared deeply for her community and who got things done. Judy passed away on July 6th at the age of 68. Born in Brighton, England, Judy began a lifetime of social activism by joining nuclear disarmament protests while still a young teenager and after coming to Canada she helped organize opposition to the Vietnam war. When Judy moved to Winnipeg in

4568 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA August 27, 2013 1969 she got right to work. She became an advocate for our most disadvantaged citizens, a campaigner for neighbourhood improve ments and a true champion of the North End. We should always take the time to celebrate community boosters like Judy. She epitomized what it is to be a involved citizen. Her work was instrumental in the success of many initiatives and the products of he r determination can be found throughout our community. Judy worked for years to get the riverbank trail from St. John's Park to downtown completed.

She fought for school ownership and operation of the Gordon Bell High School cafeteria and helped establish ed an alternative flexible learning program in the Winnipeg School Division. Judy was there at the start of the Luxton Residents Association and made sure of its rejuvenation earlier this year. She was always a supporter of the Luxton Community Centre and helped get Luxton School a new gym and play structure. Judy was an enthusiastic board member of the Seven Oaks Historical Society and played an integral

part in the success of last year's Red River settlement bi-centennial celebrations. We will always remember Judy's passion for community, her zest for life, her leadership, her dry wit and, most of all, her ability to get things done. I offer condolences to her husband Ray, daughter, Phoebe, grandchildren, Oliver and Molly, and to her many friends. Judy's legacy lives on and her accomplishment will continue to impact the lives of people –of the people of Winnipeg's North End and beyond. I want Judy's activism to continue to inspire others to get involved, to organize and to not take no for an answer.

Thank you, Judy. * (14:50) Teulon Farmers' Market Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, farmers' markets link rural and urban population. They're an important social, economic institution as well as an integral part of the community. The Teulon F armers' Market is in full swing. The Teulon and Area Farmers' Market is held every Friday afternoon from 3 to 7, with the last week being September the 6th. They are located on Highway 7 in Teulon beside the Co- op gas bar with ample free parking. They are a traditional farmers' market, and all their other vendors must make it, bake it or grow it.

They have a variety of vendors in attendance with an average of seven to 15 vendors attending weekly. You can find locally grown seasonal veggies such as potatoes, beans, peas, cucumbers, beets, zucchini and much, much more. New vendors are always welcome. Some of the past returning vendors including Blue Skies bake shop and Sweet C Bakery; these ladies really know how to bake. There is something for everyone fro m fresh baking, honey, canning plants, fresh, healthy foods and much more. Mr. Speaker, farmers' markets offer hope for healthy future; good nutrition is an important part of leading a healthy lifestyle.

As the Teulon market has something for everyone, I encourage everyone to visit the Teulon Farmers' Market and see all it has to offer. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Dasmesh School of Winnipeg Mr. Mohinder Saran (The Maples): Mr. Speaker, Manitoba is fortunate to be home to many different cultural communitie s, each with its own unique language, history and traditions to pass on to the next generation. This weekend I attended the inaugural function for the new location of the Dasmesh School of Winnipeg. Dasmesh School is the first English- Sikh school in Mani toba.

Its founders wanted to provide students with an excellent education in mathematics, science and language arts, while also ensuring that valuable language and cultural traditions were passed on to Indo-Canadian Sikh children. Dasmesh School teaches the Manitoba education curriculum to students in kindergarten to grade 7, along with the Punjabi, Hindi language and Sikh studies, including Gurbani education and Shabad Kirtan. Mr. Speaker, t his school opened last year in the Gudawara-Singh Sabha with 18 students and has been wonderfully received by the Sikh community.

This September, over 100 students are expected to enrol, and Dasmesh School has moved to a new

August 27, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4569 space in the Punjabi Cultural Centre on King Edward Street. The board of directors, Mr. Amandeep Singh Sekhon, Mr. Manjinderpal Singh Chahal and Mr. Gurlal Singh Gill; and principal, Mrs. Amandeep Sran have done fantastic work at guiding the school over the past year. In fact, this year, grade 3 student Devan Garg placed top in several nation al and international math and computing competitions: Brock University's Caribou Cup, the University of Waterloo's kangaroo math contest and mathematica Canada. Mr.

Speaker, a child's experiences during their school years shape the rest of their lives. I invite members to join me in recognizing the directors, administration and teachers at Dasmesh School of Winnipeg for their excellent work in helping our children get not just a quality education but an appreciation and understanding of their Sikh culture. I look forward to this school growing and developing in its new home. Thank you. Keeyask Community Centre–Sod Turning Mr. Ron Schuler (St. Paul): Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker, and today is the second 'weeki versary' of the second announcement of the second sod turning for the TCN Keeyask community centre. And we want to remind the minister that it was over three weeks ago that he said in two weeks that there would be a sod turning for the TCN Keeyask Centre. And I know that many members of the community were quite excited seeing as today I was able to table a photo in which we can see the member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) attending the first sod turning of the Keeyask Centre. And, Mr.

Speaker, $7 million later and members of the TCN First Nation are waiting, not just for the first sod turning, now they're actually waiting for the second sod turning. And you know what, Mr. Speaker, I think the question really should have been in question period today is how many photo ops does it take to get a TCN Keeyask Centre built? And, more importantly, how many photo ops should a government get for $7 million? And maybe it is, if you see the photo that was tabled, perhaps it wasn't a very good picture of the member for Thompson. Actually, it kind of looks he photo-bombed the picture, Mr. Speaker.

And maybe what it is, is they felt that for $7 million that first photo opportunity wasn't that good. So what they're waiting for is for a second sod turning so they can get a better photo. But I can tell you that the fam ilies and the children are waiting for a Keeyask Centre. They've been waiting for a long time and what –would like to know, for $7 million, where is their Keeyask Centre? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Grievances. Seeing no grievances– ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon.

Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Pursuant to rule 31(8), I'm announcing that the private members' resolution to be considered next Tuesday will be one put forward by the honourable member for Interlake (Mr. Nevakshonoff). The title of the resolution is "Investment in Flood Protection Initiatives." Mr. Speaker: It has been announced that, pursuant to rule 31(8), that the private member's resolution that will be considered next Tuesday is the one put forward by the honourable member for the Interlake, and the title of the resolution is "Investment in Flood Protection Initiatives." * * * Ms. Howard: Mr.

Speaker, would you please call for third reading debate on Bill 20. DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE AND THIRD READING Mr. Speaker: Now resume debate on concurrence and third reading of Bill 20, The Manitoba Building and Renewal Funding and Fiscal Management Act (Various Acts Amended), standing in the name of the honourable member f or Emerson, who has one minute remaining. Bill 20–The Manitoba Building and Renewal Funding and Fiscal Management Act (Various Acts Amended) Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Well, Mr.

Speaker, I brought my fan club with me today, as well, and I don't doubt a t all that they are all totally opposed to the 14 per cent increase in the PST.

4570 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA August 27, 2013 And just to carry on with the theme that I had yesterday, and hopefully with some of the passion that was left over from yesterday, small -business owners are hurting. Dwayne Marling of the Canadian restaurant association and food services association called it a triple whammy. He said they're being hit from all sides by this government. Businesses are starting to look at other provinces like Saskatchewan.

Larry McInnes, the prairie director for Retail Council of Canada, said, and I quote: There's just another reason for consumers to look either online or south of the border to do their shopping. Becky Cianflone, the manager for the Altona and District credits – Chamber of Commerc e called it the most blatant disregard for democracy. And, when these were being made, the Premier (Mr. Selinger) was missing in action. He was not there, Mr. Speaker. I urge the Premier to pay attention to all of the people that made presentations at all of the committee hearings. Thank you very much for the time. Mr.

Speaker: I'm sorry, I forgot that the member on it, such limited time. Other debate? Mr. Cameron Friesen (Morden -Winkler): It's my pleasure to get up and be able to put some comments on the record with respect to Bill 20 in the third reading. And, Mr. Speaker, as the member for Emerson has just said, we're talking about a 14 per cent increase to the PST. It is –it's a shocking increase for Manitobans who did not ask for such an increase, who were unaware and very surprised, shocked, when the minister for Finance stood this spring in this Chamber and announced this tax for Manitobans.

And, ever since that time, these government members have tried to put on a happy face and they've tried to send a message, oh, it's really not that bad. You know, all things considered, it's not that bad. And, yet, over the last number of weeks and months, we as the PC Party have continued to show that the opposition to this tax is widespread, that the opposition is from every sector and every demographic and every interest group.

It has brought together a coalition of the most unlikely groups standing together, toe to toe, shoulder to shoulder, sen ding a message to this government in solidarity that they oppose this, that they did not ask for it, that it was done without consultation, that it was done illegally, that it went against the very legislation that is on the books in law in the province of Manitoba that would prevent such an increase. * (15:00) And, as a new legislator in this Chamber, I wish that I could say at this point that those groups standing together and the strength of their voice and the message they were sending in concert wou ld have had the effect to change the mind of government.

I wish that I could say that that message they delivered had the effect, had the desired effect of having that Minister of Finance (Mr.

Struthers), of having that Cabinet, of having this Premier take a sober second thought approach to this ill-advised Bill 20, The Manitoba Building and Renewal Funding and Fiscal Management Act, and, indeed, when we went in to committee and we heard from Manitobans night after night after night, in this place, expressing in the most respectful ways very reasoned arguments, carefully constructed, representing the opinion of seniors, representing the opinion of business, representing the opinion of families, representing the opinions of small communities and people who live in urban centres, representing anti - poverty groups, representing the restaurant association, and, Mr.

Speaker, I know you've heard the list of presenters. I wish that I could say today that those individuals who presented at committee had been successful, had actually moved the arm of government. As a new legislator, I wish I could say that that was what we saw in the democratic process. So I guess what we could say is there was no quick win on this issue for those considerable, those formidable opponents to this bill. But it is not to say that our time here is wasted. It is not to say that the breath of those Manitobans who spoke on this issue is wasted.

It is not to say that all of those Manitobans who took the time to come to committee, who took the time to write an email and send it, perhaps, to one of the ministers, perhaps, to the Minister of Finance, maybe they chose to pick up the phone and call their MLA, and I know that I have received many of those phone calls and so have my colleagues on t his side and, undoubtedly, I know that the–those ministers on the other side have as well received those calls from constituents.

And so I know that, at this point in time, we can't say that the government has listened, we can't say that the government has turned back from this course of action, however great the opposition is that has been signalled against the–their intent, but it is not to say that there is not time for this government to still do the right thing.

August 27, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4571 And so, Mr. Speaker, it's on that basi s that I make my remarks today. It is with the hope that there is still a lively conversation going on, on the other side behind closed doors in Cabinet, and in the NDP caucus, that there are people there who say, you know, it's not too late for us to list en to the voice of Manitobans on this issue. As a matter of fact, it was just yesterday when the member for River East (Mrs. Mitchelson) talked about a –juxtaposed the leadership of this current Premier (Mr.

Selinger) and the leadership of the past premier and then she talked about the past premier of this province, Mr. Gary Doer, who, at times, undertook an action and went forward in a direction, and there were times at which he changed direction and he stated it was because of what he sensed. He had gauged a strong unwillingness of Manitobans to be led in that direction, to that goal and to that end. And I think, you know, that, regardless of our ideology and regardless of the partisanism in this place and regardless of the views that, Mr.

Speaker, you yourself alluded to today that we hold, often, very strong views which we put forward in very strong terms, even so, we saw the example of a premier, previously, who was not above going back and looking at a position again, measuring it again, re-examining his position and his platform, and there was actually examples in which he backed down. What we have not seen is this Premier's, is this Finance Minister's willingness to do the same, to back down in the face of such strong opposition, not just by our par ty, but, as I say, by the many, many groups, the individuals that continue to come forward.

So I think, Mr. Speaker, the time that I have allotted to me this afternoon, I will take this time to reiterate some arguments that I've made and to let some voices of Manitobans who live in the jurisdiction that I represent be heard again and allow those comments and concerns to come forward again and to be put on Hansard so that when the Minister of Finance (Mr. Struthers) and perhaps the, you know, the member for Dawson Trail (Mr.

Lemieux) who, I see, is also–will be taking note of the arguments put forward, that these ministers and members across can look back at the Hansard and look back at the comments and they can consider the extent to which this tax will neg atively impact Manitobans, because essentially that is the argument distilled that we have put forward in the weeks past – in the months past, that this tax will place a burden on Manitobans unfairly.

And it is not one that needs to be placed there, and that burden on Manitobans is one that will be felt by all those groups I mentioned, all those seniors, all those students, all those young people, all those Manitobans of marginal income who are just getting by. And, Mr. Speaker, as I speak to Manitobans who are just squeaking by, today I believe the Free Press again raises this issue that this tax will unfairly target those Manitobans who can least afford it, who are vulnerable and for whom this 8 per cent or 14.2 per cent tax hike really makes a difference.

And maybe to these ministers and members on the other side, maybe they're impervious to the argument that– you know, that that 14 per cent tax increase will really have a difference on their bottom line. But it's not the message that I receive in my constit uency office. It's not the message that was delivered to me just yesterday in the few minutes I had at my constituency office before I had to leave again for Winnipeg. And, after signing some documents and making some phone calls, again someone comes in and says, I just need a minute of your time to explain to you what this actually means to me. And so, Mr.

Speaker, as I said, you know, there's so many reasons–there's so many compelling reasons why this government should walk away from this path that they have placed themselves on. We know we have a democratic right in this province to a referendum whenever government wants to raise a major tax. And, of course, we understand the PST increase of 14.2 per cent falls into that category of a major tax. And, Mr.

Speaker, I have to say it is so –is such a sad commentary on the sincerity or lack thereof of this government that when I read through the text of the bill it indicates, well, this isn't really a tax that would fall under the taxpayer protection act because it has an end date. It has an end date of nine years and 364 days, I think, if I'm correct. I don't have the copy of the bill right in front of me, but I assure you it's in my desk and I refer to it constantly.

And it seems insincere to suggest that a 10-year tax is anything but a permanent tax measure, and for the government to somehow argue, to somehow try to weasel out of what the taxpayer protection act so clearly says about the necessity for a referendum, the necessity for democratic rights of t he individuals, of the voters in this province, of the ratepayers to be respected, it's a sad commentary and it seems to show that the spenDP doesn't have respect or regard for Manitobans. Certainly, they don't have regard for the impact that these taxe s will have on Manitobans

4572 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA August 27, 2013 for their ability to get ahead, for their–on their ability to pay their bills, on their ability to raise their children and to create opportunities for their children, on the ability of seniors to be able to predicate their retire ment in their sunset –that sunset period of their lives with confidence, because this erodes the confidence of all Manitobans. And, Mr.

Speaker, that's precisely why taxpayer protection laws are in place in this province, to safeguard families from governm ents like this NDP and from decisions like the decisions that have been made by this NDP government to raise taxes. Manitobans didn't ask for this tax. There was no one in the 2011 election when I went door to door who indicated to me that what they really felt like the government needed to do was to raise taxes. People talked about better use or better government spending, more efficient operation by government. They talked about wasted money on projects that didn't have lasting significance.

They talked a bout governments being able to make choices and put money into infrastructure investments that will last and make a difference and instead this government chose not to listen. * (15:10) They went forward even after the election and they hosted round table discussions and community consultations. Of course, none of those were done where I live. None of them were done in communities like Portage la Prairie or Glenboro or Steinbach. I don't know if there was –I doubt there was a community consultation in Brand on West – might have been, but I sure missed it.

But I can guarantee you that so many Manitobans did not have the opportunity to express to this government that they did not support a tax increase. And I, having been at community consultations, I would ser iously doubt for a moment that the resounding statement made by those people who attended the NDP round table discussions was coming into the room and saying raise those taxes. We just don't have high enough taxes.

I am sure that the comments in those room s were the same kind of comments that we heard where we live and the same kind of comments in the constituency of Morden-Winkler and others where people are concerned about debt. They're concerned about the $30-billion debt that this province continues to carry. They're concerned with the lack of leadership exhibited by this government.

They're concerned about structural deficits exceeding $500 million every year–each and every year despite the fact that this government bends over backwards and robs special funds and dips into Manitoba Hydro to try to pay down, to try to reduce the gap between their expenditures and their revenues, and it's not sustainable and it just pushes debt payment further into the future. It's politically expedient, but it is not in the best interest of the ratepayers of this province. And it is regrettable that they do so and it is not –it is certainly has been on –at the forefront of the conservative Manitobans.

I'm sure that is the message that they heard when they went into those round table discussions with Manitobans. So, then, when the Minister of Finance (Mr. Struthers) stood up and delivered his Throne Speech and then delivered his budget in the spring and indicated there would be this tax, Mr. Speaker, it could not have been a good time to be the Finance Minister. It could not. This, even now, as we continue in this emergency session of the Manitoba Legislature, it can't be a good time.

And even though it's swelteringly hot out there today and I think that that humidity must b e close to a hundred per cent, I'm sure that the pressure on those NDP members and those NDP ministers is–it's–that pressure is equal on them whether they're in the Chamber or whether they're in their constituency or sitting in their air-conditioned basements, it's a pressure that simply is not going away. And we have said, in the strongest terms, we will not allow them to get off easy on this because Manitobans have sent the message that we shouldn't.

So, when the Minister of Finance brought this budget in and indicated that he'd have a 14.2 per cent PST increase, it was amazing how quickly groups stood against this government. It is amazing how quickly groups like the Association of Manitoba Municipalities, like the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce, the Mani toba Business Council, Manitoba Heavy Construction Association–and they talked about the fact that this was not what they asked for. They didn't ask for a PST increase. Now, they–some of these groups had asked for a real change in the way this government s pends its infrastructure dollars.

They had asked for more autonomy at the local level when it comes to municipal infrastructure. They had asked for more support. They kept talking about the effect of off-loading onto smaller levels of government and they talked about the fact that this NDP government wanted to control the infrastructure projects, but not actually meet the needs at the local level.

August 27, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4573 And so what the NDP did instead is they came back and just raised the tax, did nothing to allay the concerns of these groups, did nothing to divest some of that responsibility to the municipalities to give more local control over projects, things that make a difference. Instead, they basically just bought more ribbon and they've gone into the backrooms, and they've made a decision among a few NDP members where that money will be spent, and it's deplorable. It's regrettable, Mr. Speaker, and, of course, I say again it is not in the best interests of Manitobans.

And, Mr. Speaker, we know –we have to say again that the fact that this government has gone against the legislation that we have in place in Manitoba also suggests that there is nothing stopping them from doing it again. And, indeed, earlier in the session when we asked the Premier (Mr. Selinger) if he would rule out additional tax increases next year, the minister –or the Premier was unwilling to put onto the record, was unwilling to put into Hansard, that he would guarantee there would be no further tax increases. And that is something that every Manitoban must understand.

It is something that every Manitoban must realize that we–this is not a one-time deal. Instead, this is now a gate that has been opened, and there is a strong, strong possibility that as this government goes forward, they will do no more to match revenues to expenditures. As a matter of fact, absent in the Finance Minister's speech, when he delivered his budget, was any assurance that he was working to eliminate Manitoba's deficit at the earliest opportunity. We understand he has given different dates at different times stating when he would eliminate the deficit.

And then earlier this year, the minister kind of got cute with his language and started to do things like say that he was going to increasingly work to close the gap between expenditures and revenues. And that language has got to be the work of communicators in the backroom. I mean, that language gets so cute when you can just wink and say that you are going to work to increasingly close the gap between revenues and expenditures. How about some plain language? How about, we as a government will eliminate the deficit by this date, and you can take it to the bank. Oh, I forgot. The Minister of Finance (Mr.

Struthers) actually did do that. He did provide a definite date by which he would eliminate the deficit. The only problem was he then changed the date and changed it again, and that's the kind of thing that Manitobans have increasingly took notice of. Even in this sweltering August, it is amazing how attentive Manitobans have been to the fact that this debate has not concluded, that the third reading of Bill 20 has not concluded, that there has not been royal assent on this bill. And so, Mr. Speaker, I want to say again, the PST, in the simplest form–the PST increase is a broken promise.

I know, and I won't repeat at length today, but my colleagues have made clear that every MLA on that side promised not to raise taxes. They broke that promise when they raised the –they expanded the PST last year. That, of course, raised $106 million for Manitobans alone, just by adding PST to things like insurance and haircuts and hair colourings and esthetician services –I hope I got that word right. I know we even have that kind of program in our local high school, but I struggle to say that 'termino' –term every time I have to use it and even when I visit the program. So–and we know this year, Mr.

Speaker, the NDP goes on and with a subsequent tax hike, this time costing Manitobans $277 million by increasing the PST by 1 point or 14.2 per cent, the lar gest tax increase in this province since 1987.

Overall and combined, Manitobans are paying almost $400 million more per year in PST because of the NDP's inability to match revenues to expenditures, their inability to keep their word on what they told taxpayers and voters in the 2011 election, their inability to do the difficult work that other provincial governments around this country are doing. * (15:20) Even in Ontario, a few weeks ago, a renewed conversation around driving down government spending–all across this country we have governments–in Saskatchewan, Brad Wall's government has taken such effective steps to drive down government spending.

And yet , Mr. Speaker, this government thinks that any party that would put together–put forward any conve rsation around driving down government spending, that somehow that's shocking and it's horrible and it's horrific.

I don't understand why the government so doesn't understand what their mandate is, so doesn't understand their responsibility of the caretake rs of the finances of the Province of Manitoba that we have to–it's incumbent on government to constantly look, not just at program spending, but at the effectiveness of the program; to look at how many senior bureaucrats are being added to see what is the extent to which the rate at which we add senior bureaucrats outstrips the national average. And when

4574 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA August 27, 2013 they find it does, why don't they do something about it? What is the total envelope for –you know, for spending, in all of their areas of core government expenditures? And, even last year, when the Minister of Finance (Mr. Struthers) himself came with his Speech from the Throne –or, rather, with his budget speech and said, we will drive down government spending an equivalent of 1 per cent per year. That was the Minister of Finance's own words.

And yet this year, when our own party said, you know what, the Minister of Finance actually had a good point there, and it is necessary for government to do it. But, when we speak the same words as the minister, oh, that party's indignant, and, oh, all those MLAs are indignant. They can't believe we're talking about government being more efficient with the resources that flow to them through taxation and other forms of revenue. There could be nothing–there could be no greater disconnect than that. Mr.

Speaker, the time that I have remaining to me–we've made clear as a party that since 2011, the increases to taxpayers, to Manitobans under this government–well, it comes to more than $400 per year, $1,600 per year in taxe s and fees total for one family, and that hits home. Earlier in this session I raised the issue of a gentleman and his wife in my constituency who came to see me–a gentleman by the name of Allen Schellenberg [phonetic], who should be in the time of his l ife when he does not have to punch the clock anymore.

And I won't divulge to the House Allen's [phonetic] age, because I'm not sure Allen [phonetic] would appreciate that, but I'll tell you–I've got to say, for his age, he is hard- working, he is so ambitious, he's so driven. And I met him at a trade show in my community and they were there selling all kinds of crafts that he and his wife make and sell at different shows. And I complimented them on their products. They sell these beautiful greeting cards where Allen [phonetic] takes the photographs and she does the work to place them in cards, and they write messages inside them.

It was a great way to get all of my shopping done for Father's Day and Mother's Day and nieces' and nephews' birthdays. So I bought these cards and I complimented them on, you know, being so energetic. And Allen [phonetic] came back and said, you know, Cam, if we didn't have to do this, we wouldn't, but we have to do this. Our finances are so tight, the PST increase creates expenses for us that we simpl y cannot compensate for in other areas. We know our costs and this increases them. This is a Manitoba senior on a fixed income who now has to deal with this government's tax hike.

Another one of those individuals was Abe Neufeld, who runs Tektite Manufac turing. And earlier in this session I raised the issue of this company that has done so well manufacturing roll cages for tractors and special equipment for golf carts. They found some niche markets. They've done a fantastic job of marketing this product. We know the extent to which there is ingenuity and lots of ambition in business in southern Manitoba and, indeed, all across this province, and this company has done so well, they've expanded in their location. They were located between Morden and Winkler on the corridor there.

And Abe Neufeld contacted me and say–and said, as my MLA, I want you to know that this could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. We are investigating the possibility of moving our business to North Dakota. He says, there is so much government red tape and there is so much taxation. He says, I know I could be so much leaner in my operation. At least there's someone in this province who knows the value of a–about leanness in an operation, that somehow that's not a dirty word.

That when we are spending the dollars of taxpayers, it is incumbent on us–it's not a luxury–it is incumbent on us to check and check again that every dollar is being spent to the greatest good and to address the greatest need. Mr. Speaker, there's another f amily that contacted me, Nick and Lynda Clayson. And here is a Manitoba family–Nick has done many things in his lifetime, as a matter of fact he was a councillor for an RM and–in southern Manitoba, they've since moved to Morden. And Nick says he didn't wa nt to be guilty of complaining in the coffee shops without doing the work.

So he pulled out his calculator and he went over their family finances from top to bottom. And he included everything from mortgage payments and car payments and MPI registration co sts, fuel costs, entertainment, he included the tithe they give to their local church and the donations they give to local charities. And he submitted it to me and I was amazed that someone would be so transparent with their finances.

He did the work and he said when he calculated it all out, even in a single year without the twelve months, only for the, let's say, the six months that that tax would be in effect, the PST increase, he was still

August 27, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4575 calculating out in their family, a family of two let me say, an $800 increase. He was saying for that family of two if it was a full year it could be twice that amount. And I won't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I assure you it was right on par with what we had estimated as a party saying $1,600 for a family of four. Mr.

Speaker, Manitobans have said in the strongest terms that this tax is inappropriate, this tax is illegal, this tax was not asked for, this task–this tax is being opposed by Manitobans regardless of age, of income, of demographic, of geography. And, Mr. Speaker, I stand optimistically and say that it is not too late for that party –for that government to do the right thing. It–we know it's not for infrastructure, they couldn't make the argument. We know it is not for flood mitigation, they c ouldn't make the argument.

We know it's not for things like hospitals and schools because those things government must do anyways and other governments do them. We know this tax increase makes us less competitive. We know it leads to out migration. And, Mr. Speaker, I call on this government to do the right thing and to strike down the Bill 20 and the tax on Manitobans. Thank you. Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and it's a pleasure to rise and put on record a few comments r egarding Bill 20 in third reading here.

This has been a bill that we have debated endlessly in this House, and I would hope that some of the members opposite would be coming around and–to our point of view on some of the impacts on this increase in the p rovincial sales tax or retail sales tax as it's properly known, the 14.3 per cent increase that we're seeing and its impact in many areas. And we've already seen some of the numbers in terms of increased inflation specific to Manitoba, some of the real impacts that increased taxation has done. And in particular there are a number of sectors that this really does hurt in a major way.

In particular, seniors, those on fixed income. And there are a lot of people out there that are living in rental or perhaps i n their own homes still and trying to keep–make ends in there, that are living on really not a lot more than old age pension, perhaps supplement and maybe a little bit of Canada pension supplement or some other income supplement. And their income is very fixed, does not increase a lot, though there are slight increases for inflation in the Old Age Security; they don't keep up to the high rate of inflation that we've been seeing.

And they certainly don't keep up to the increase that we just saw in the provin cial sales tax–the 14.3 per cent increase in a single year. Mr. Mohinder Saran, Acting Speaker, in the Chair On top of that, we just nicely coming out of a year where the breadth of the services that PST is charged on has increased quite widely, a lot of services have been added.

And if you look back during the term of the NDP government here in Manitoba since 2000, they've been pretty consistent in broadening the breadth of that PST applying it to many services that are often very essential; things like accounting and legal services and most recently of course, now we're in–and we see increases in fees as well. * (15:30) And I happen to check one of the websites – provincial websites, Bureau of Statistics –on some of the costs related to some of their documents.

And it – I was frankly appalled when I saw how much they have increased in three or four years since the last time I had reason to check that site. And things like birth certificates, which are $75 now, are huge increases in the last few years and clearly are a burden for young families that have to go through this process. And we do have –in almost every constituency we seem to have a lot of young families, in particular, single-parent families. They're far more common now than they were a generation ago and that's cause for concern in itself, but it certainly makes it particularly challenging for them.

They're on one income, fairly limited, many times there's some other supplement one way or the other, whether it's to help with child care or perhaps it 's housing allowance, which is something that we had encouraged the government to look at increasing and they have not done. So we certainly find that there are many households these days that are counting their pennies very, very carefully. And, of cour se, here we are coming to a time of year when there is a sudden extra set of costs, that being around the school system starting up.

Not only is their costs for materials to take to school, the books and the other associated things, but there's extra clothes that the kids are going to want and costs associated with that. And disposable incomes in the average household have certainly taken quite a kick in the last few years and that has made it very difficult for families. And

4576 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA August 27, 2013 associated with that, of course , many households want to look at what activities their kids are going to be in, in the next year. So–and there's some pretty tough choices having been made. I was talking to a family the other day with four children, and they both work, they're both in t he health-care system and they both have pretty good jobs, but they're finding it tough these days. They're paying a mortgage, and the mortgage costs –though as low as they've probably ever seen –they're a burden and they have to deal with that first.

Kids a re growing and they eat more every day, so it seems. But now they're coming to a point where they have to decide what these kids want to be in, and they're pretty active bunch of kids. The girls are active in figure skating, and that's actually where I know them from because my kids are active in that area as well. The boys are into hockey; they played soccer in the summer months. And, of course, they're a very musical family, so musical education is a absolute essential from their point of view.

But, by th e time you get adding all of these things up, it comes to a substantial amount of money, and, of course, there's been an increase of cost associated with that. Everyone who provides these services, of course, also wants–they have to make up for their short fall, so there's been some increases in fees. And one of the questions they actually had for me is how much of the increase in hockey and figure skating was due to something related to the increase in taxes. And, when you actually get looking at it, there is a substantial amount in every one of those fees.

Not so much in the figure skating one, though now they're paying PST on, actually, the service from the coach, which a few years ago they didn’t, but that's certainly in there now. But every fee to ever y association like Skate Canada and Hockey Canada includes an insurance aspect and that insurance aspect now actually has the 8 per cent PST on it that wasn't there two years ago. We went from zero to 7 per cent and now we're at 8 per cent.

And so, in a few areas–and I tried to estimate some of the costs just by checking in with these organizations to see how much of that was related to liability and how much was on disability. And disability, there isn't any PST on those insurance premiums. And it would appear in the area of figure skating, it's not a lot there because the risk of getting hurt in that area and long-term liability is actually quite low compared to some other sports, obviously. It's only about $8 per person, per year, so that's not that much.

But when you look at a club like the one in Portage la Prairie that has just shy of 200 members and you say to every one of those, well, there's eight bucks more, so there's a substantial amount of extra cost passed on to the community. But, when you look at hockey and sports like that–ringette, which is another one very similar–their increase is actually more in the neighbourhood of $20 per year because of their increased insurance costs. And, of course, there's in Portage alone there's about 2,000 kids involved in those two sports, so that's a substantial blow to the community.

And then I actually took the time to phone our local recreation commission and say, okay, what is it costing you more to insure the facilities because increased costs in our community? And they're estimating something in the neighbourhood of $25,000 per year, and that will have to be passed on eventually. They aren't increasing their ice fees this year. Probably the–they'll be going back to the municipal governments which is supported at two levels, both municipal and the city, and they'll be asking for increased support in regards to keeping the facilities running efficiently and open.

And they're looking for efficiencies. Isn't that an amazing concept. They're looking for place s to watch their costs a little more carefully and yet still deliver the same amount of services.

In fact, they're trying to expand services in a few areas, and they think they can do that by watching some costs very carefully, being more efficient, being more careful with their heating dollars, putting it on a heat/cool cycle during the day and doing a little energy salvage from –there's a pool attached to the one facility and there's a lot of heat generated by that pool and the cooling process, and that's something that they could re -use, so they're looking at ways to do that.

But, of course, there's times a year when that can be reversed and the rink generates heat that perhaps they could be used to heat some of the pool facilities, so there might be some efficiencies with that. They're being creative in things like that, and we would certainly encourage the government to look at ways that it could be more efficient. And it was interesting to see what Ontario was doing, and the new premier there inviting, really, anyone that, in a negotiation process with the unions there, saying, well, if you want an increase, you come to us with suggestions on how we might see some savings.

And there are definitely unions there that have taken hold of this proposal and are bringing forward suggestions, and perhaps that's something the government here should be looking at, too.

August 27, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4577 I know, when we were sitting in Justice, we had quite a lengthy lecture from the Minister of Child and Family Services on the obligations that t his government has under legislation, and we certainly understand what she's saying. But what she never got to, and perhaps she never gets, is that they – government has an obligation to provide these services. But nowhere does it say at any cost. You do not have to necessarily throw unlimited dollars at these problems to try and find solutions. You can be cost-effective in how

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	40-2-98b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	40th 2nd hansardpdf 98b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	e4b9be8caadbf5a91b878cbda9fdb51045c6d346

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