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November 19, 2019

42nd Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcript 2019-Nov-19 (PDF)

L127 - Tue 19 Nov 2019 / Mar 19 nov 2019

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Tuesday 19 November 2019 Mardi 19 novembre 2019

Orders of the Day

Provincial Animal Welfare Services Act, 2019 / Loi de 2019 sur les services provinciaux visant le bien-être des animaux

Introduction of Visitors

Legislative pages

Oral Questions

Premier’s comments

Education funding

Government contracts

Infrastructure funding

Government accountability

Services for persons with disabilities

Health care funding

Veterans

Education funding

Land use planning / Aménagement du territoire

Hydro rates

Municipalities

Real estate industry

Winter highway maintenance

Hospital funding

Introduction of Visitors

Members’ Statements

Soins de longue durée

Ottawa police and first responders / Police et premiers intervenants d’Ottawa

Abigayle Lobsinger

Dave Dillon

Tow truck operators

Bridget and Shawn Saulnier

Anti-bullying initiatives

Réseau des jeunes parlementaires

Ministry of Labour, Training and Skills Development

Cooperation for Justice and Peace conference

Reports by Committees

Standing Committee on Government Agencies

Introduction of Bills

Public Safety Related to Dogs Statute Law Amendment Act, 2019

Northern Health Travel Grant Advisory Committee Act, 2019 / Loi de 2019 sur le Comité consultatif des subventions aux résidents du Nord de l’Ontario pour frais de transport à des fins médicales

Trust in Real Estate Services Act, 2019 / Loi de 2019 sur la confiance envers les services immobiliers

Statements by the Ministry and Responses

Real estate industry

Petitions

Public sector compensation

Fish and wildlife management

Education funding

Government’s record

Education funding

Addiction services

Equal opportunity

Veterans memorial

Long-term care

Fish and wildlife management

Documents gouvernementaux / Government documents

Orders of the Day

Plan to Build Ontario Together Act, 2019 / Loi de 2019 sur le plan pour bâtir l’Ontario ensemble

Private members’ public business

Adjournment Debate

Sexual abuse

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Let us pray.

Prayers.

Orders of the Day

Provincial Animal Welfare Services Act, 2019 / Loi de 2019 sur les services provinciaux visant le bien-être des animaux

Resuming the debate adjourned on November 18, 2019, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 136,

An Act to enact the Provincial Animal Welfare Services Act, 2019 and make consequential amendments with respect to animal protection / Projet de loi 136, Loi édictant la Loi de 2019 sur les services provinciaux visant le bien-être des animaux et apportant des modifications corrélatives concernant la protection des animaux.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Further debate?

Mr. Jeremy Roberts: It’s wonderful to rise today on the Provincial Animal Welfare Services Act, the wonderfully named PAWS Act, to talk about what our province, what our government, is doing to make sure that we are providing the highest level of protection and security to our animals, who we all care so much about.

It’s fascinating, Mr. Speaker. I remember that during the election, when I was going around door to door, knocking on people’s doors, talking with constituents, there would be a whole bunch of different issues that would come out. Of course, during the election, we were all talking about the cost of electricity, the cost of living, health care and different issues like this. But every couple of doors, I would also get somebody who would raise issues around animal welfare.

This was a particularly salient issue, at least in my community, and I’m sure right across the province, because a lot of people have a pet, whether it’s a cat or a dog, or perhaps they own a farm and deal with livestock or equines. Everybody is always concerned about making sure that we are providing that level of protection for our animals.

In fact, I read an

article a couple of years ago that talked about how sometimes people can be even more empathetic to animals. It’s partially because people view animals as more vulnerable and something that needs to be protected, something that’s defenceless. I think that’s one of the reasons why we’re all so concerned with making sure that we have those high levels of protection.

I remember well, Mr. Speaker, that a couple of years ago, I took

part in a program in Ottawa that’s run by an organization called Youth Ottawa. It’s called the DILA program. I went into a high school classroom. This group of high school students would come together in their civics class, and they had to pick an issue that they were particularly passionate about, and come up with a plan on how to address it.

This particular high school class were very concerned with the issue of puppy mills, and what we could do across Canada to help to get rid of the scourge that is puppy mills. They spent a couple of days working on a plan. They developed an information campaign with a little ad to go up on YouTube. They came up with a Facebook page, Twitter hashtag, all of this, and they came down to city hall and presented this plan to a number of public officials in Ottawa, to talk about their plan to fight this scourge that is puppy mills.

I was fascinated by this, Mr. Speaker, that when this group of youth had a chance to think about an issue that they really cared about, what they gravitated towards was, “How do we protect animals?”

Of course, the issue of puppy mills, alongside dogfights and other such violence and harassment against animals, is something that really tugs at the heartstrings.

This bill, the PAWS Act, is going to do a number of things to help to make sure that we are best protecting animal welfare. It’s going to install provincial investigators, who will have the power to go out and make sure that we are enforcing animal welfare laws across the province. This is going to start on January 1, 2020.

Now, when these folks are caught committing violence against animals, we are going to install the toughest penalties across Canada for these individuals. We are going to set down a very strict standard to say that we here in Ontario believe that if you are caught abusing or committing violence against an animal, or mistreating an animal in any way, you are going to face the strictest penalties.

We’re also looking at ways that we can change the system to make it easier for people to be able to report these instances of violence against animals. We have a catchy phone number that’s going to be going up, easy for people to remember. It’s 1-833-9-ANIMAL. That’s a number where people at home, if you think that your neighbour is perhaps mistreating their pet, if you know of an instance of a puppy mill, if you hear about a dog fighting ring—whatever it might be, this instance of animal mistreatment, animal violence, cruelty to animals—you can pick up the phone and call, and these provincial inspectors will be able to come on site and assist with this issue.

We’re also very, very cognizant of the fact that folks in rural areas, folks who do farming, folks who have livestock, equine—they need to make sure that the people who are on the inspection and enforcement side are aware of farming practices, farming traditions, all of that. So we’re going to make sure that our inspectors who are working in rural areas are trained to be able to deal with this, because we want to make sure we are taking into account all of the different types of variables.

Over the course of the next couple of months, there are going to be consultations on some of the enforcement mechanisms here, and we encourage anybody across the province who has thoughts on how we can improve our system to make sure that they get involved in this consultation, that they take part, that they provide that feedback so that we can make sure the structure that we’re putting up, the system that we’re putting up for protecting animal welfare, is the strongest it can be.

I think back to different pets that I’ve had an experience with in my life. You think back to it, Mr. Speaker, and you understand why people are so passionate about this issue. Growing up, my parents—apparently, perhaps, they fancied themselves the royal family of Ottawa—always had corgis. We had three corgis growing up, and these were wonderful, wonderful animals, just the cutest dogs. Our last corgi, Baron, was a retired show dog, so when we adopted him he was impeccably well behaved.

As you know, Mr. Speaker, I have a younger brother with special needs. My brother both has autism and also suffers from epilepsy. It was amazing, because Baron, despite having never had any training as a service dog, seemed to have a sixth sense about Dillon. If he saw that Dillon was running toward a busy road, Baron would run up and kind of cut him off and redirect him. It was as though the herding instinct that corgis have—because corgis, of course, before they were made famous in Buckingham Palace, were herding dogs.

That’s why you rarely ever see a corgi with a tail, because you didn’t want the livestock or anything stepping on their tails. Baron, this corgi, would cut Dillon off and help prevent him from running out in the road.

The other thing that he would do on occasion is, if my brother was upstairs in the living room and he was watching—his favourite show is Barney. I have probably watched Barney Live! on Broadway at least 100,000 times over the course of my life. Dillon would be watching Barney, and if he happened to have a seizure and we weren’t in the room, but Baron was in the room, he’d bark. We’d go upstairs and there was Dillon, and we had to engage in the emergency response. It was amazing that this dog seemed to have that sixth sense. It was a truly sad day when we lost Baron to cancer a couple of years ago.

If anyone had ever done something to Baron, I know that each and every one of us in our family would have wanted to see the highest level of penalty on these individuals to stop them from ever doing that again, because he was part of our family. He was such an important piece.

I think back to other dogs as well. Of course, I have a lot of friends who have children with autism, and one of my friends in Ottawa, Tommy Des Brisay—Tommy is actually a Paralympic athlete. He has autism, but he’s a runner, a marathon runner. He’s Ottawa’s first fastest runner. Tommy has had three service dogs over his career. He has had Sara, he has had Matrix and he has Adel. These service dogs are with him to provide comfort, to help him in those times when he’s perhaps feeling anxious, to help redirect him, again, on things like if he’s running out towards a busy road.

I remember one story that Sara, his first service dog, had retired, and he’d brought in his second service dog. I went over to visit Tommy one day. We were going to go see a Disney movie. He’s an absolute Disney fanatic.

When I got there, I said, “Oh, Tommy, where’s Sara?” Tommy turned to me—and Tommy doesn’t speak at the same level as us, but he certainly does speak—and he said, “Sara has gone to live on the farm.” I went, “Oh, my God,” because of course, for all of us, that’s something you often tell your kids, that “Sara has gone to live on the farm.” And so I said, “Tommy, I’m so sorry, but I’m sure Sara is very happy on the farm.” I went over to Tommy’s mother and I said, “MaryAnn, I’m so sorry to hear about Sara. That’s so sad.

Sara was such an important part of your life.” Tommy’s mother sort of looked at me a little bit funny and said, “Well, what do you mean, Jeremy? Sara went to live on my parents’ farm out in Aylmer.” “Oh, okay.” So Sara was fine.

These service dogs have been such an integral part of Tommy’s life and continue to be an integral part of Tommy’s life, although the latest service dog has to be very fit, because again, Tommy is an incredibly fast runner. He won the Canada Army Run in Ottawa last year, so the dogs have to try and keep up with him. I certainly can’t. As you can see, Mr. Speaker, I’m not a marathon runner.

For myself, I actually got my first pet shortly before the election last year. I ended up adopting, of all things—I must have been crazy—a Great Dane puppy. When I adopted this dog, Apollo, he was about this big and just the absolute cutest thing. I didn’t quite know at the time, Mr. Speaker, that I was going to be running in the election, for a number of different reasons. Suddenly, I found myself as a candidate, and so Apollo became the campaign mascot. Apollo moved into the campaign office, and he was there to greet everyone.

Apollo loved absolutely every single person in that campaign office except my campaign manager. Whenever he would see my campaign manager, he’d pee everywhere. That was the one time he lost his potty training, and so it became a bit of a running joke.

Apollo was with me all throughout the campaign. I’d go out door-knocking for four hours, I’d come back, I’d take him for a walk, go back out door-knocking, come back and feed him. He was such an important part of it.

This weekend, I took a trip up to our family cottage about an hour outside of Ottawa, in Perth. I just went up to make sure that the place was fully winterized. I brought Apollo with me. It was funny because at one point, I looked out into the forest—and of course, there are no leaves, so you can see through the forest much deeper in the winter—and I saw these deer bounding by. I thought, “Oh, that’s beautiful.” Then suddenly, I see something about the same size as the deer, bounding after them. Lo and behold, it was Apollo. He had found some friends the same size as him. Apollo was chasing after the deer and having a grand old time.

Apollo has been such a wonderful part of my life. As everyone in this chamber knows, politics can have a lot of ups and downs. You have very busy days. There is something so wonderful about getting home at the end of the day and finding a warm, smiling face waiting to see you. In my particular case, Apollo now weighs 155 pounds, and he’s up to about here on me. I keep thinking that one of these days I’m going to ride him into Queen’s Park. Perhaps the Sergeant-at-Arms might get a little nervous, but I swear that he’s a—

Mr. Dave Smith: I don’t think she’d get nervous. I think she could take him down.

Mr. Jeremy Roberts: There you go.

He’s a gentle giant. But anyhow, there’s something so wonderful each and every day about going home and seeing that warm, smiling face. Although, I must say that when the puppy was about this big, it was fine for him to be on the bed with me. But now, if he tries to climb up on that bed—155 pounds, basically a miniature horse—I get about one eighth of the bed. So if I ever don’t look terribly rested, that’s why. I’ve had to sleep on the floor and Apollo has taken the bed.

But I think to myself: If anyone ever did anything to Apollo, I would be beyond myself. I would desperately want to make sure that there were consequences—the strictest consequences in all of Ontario—to make sure that this sort of thing would never happen again to anyone else. You develop a bond with these animals, and, again, as I mentioned before, they become such an integral part of your family.

I’ve unfortunately never been a cat person. There’s always this debate, “Are you a cat person or a dog person?” I, personally, am allergic to cats, and so every time I go over and see a cat, the cat seems to know. They seem to know I’m allergic and they want to come over and rub all against me and get me sneezing. But even though I may not be a cat person, I have so many friends who have bonded so much with their cats and think about them the same way that I think about Apollo.

I remember having the great fortune to have the chance to visit 24 Sussex when I was working in federal politics, and for those who knew her, Mrs. Harper, the wife of our former Prime Minister, was a great supporter of the humane society, and she actually would house a number of stray cats at 24 Sussex. When you went over to visit 24 Sussex, there would be a big sign on the door with instructions on if you wanted to adopt one of the 24 Sussex cats. She was always trying to adopt them to guests. So you would go to 24 Sussex and you would leave with a cat. It was a bit of a unique situation there.

But for her, it was obvious that taking care of these animals that had been left behind at a shelter, that had perhaps been mistreated, was so crucially important. That was something that was a big part of her legacy, and continues to be something for which she’s very, very warmly remembered around Ottawa, her support for the humane society.

So again, we’re going to be bringing in this PAWS legislation. There are going to be inspectors. We’re going to make sure that we are providing training to those inspectors so that they can deal with the unique situations in farming with livestock and equines. We’re going to be bringing in the strongest penalties in Canada for offenders.

In fact, for the really highly egregious offences, they will face stiff penalties, including jail time and hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines, to make sure that this never happens again—hundreds of thousands of dollars for people who could be so heinous in attacking or mistreating one of these special animals, who just want to find a home and bring happiness and warmth to a family.

We’re also going to make sure that this legislation can be adaptable to deal with issues on First Nation reserves. First Nations constables are now going to be able to have the power to exercise these same powers as our inspectors to deal with any violations on-reserve. So again, we’re looking at this from multiple different angles.

We’re going to make sure that our police continue to have a role as well, because oftentimes, perhaps if you are in a supermarket parking lot and you see an animal that’s trapped in a car and it’s plus 35 or minus 35—I guess we’re getting a little bit closer to that—and you think to yourself, “How could somebody leave this dog in the car?”, you might wave down a police officer. Now there’s going to be that power so that somebody can step in, break through that window and rescue that dog to make sure that it’s safe, that it’s not being mistreated. Because you just simply can’t do that.

Can you imagine somebody leaving a baby in a car when it’s plus 35 out? You would never do that. So we’re going to make sure that that same protection is there for our beloved animals.

This builds on some of the different things that we’re doing across government. We’ve recently introduced another piece of legislation that’s going to allow folks to bring their pets with them onto patios during the summer, which I think is an absolutely wonderful, wonderful idea. I know Apollo and I may make good use of that, although perhaps the patio owner might charge me for a whole extra seat, because Apollo is going to need a stable on that patio if I show up.

Again, Mr. Speaker, I’m so pleased to be standing up to support this legislation. I know that we’re going to get broad support here, to make sure that we’re protecting these animals as best as we possibly can.

I know that when I speak to constituents now, when I go out into the community, as I did when I first ran for election, and go door to door, when folks raise these concerns, I can now turn to them and say that we have taken action. We’ve introduced the PAWS Act. We’re bringing in these inspectors. We’re bringing in tough penalties. We’re going to make sure that we have a system in place to best protect our animals. I’m incredibly proud of that, Mr. Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Questions and comments?

Mr. Michael Mantha: It’s always a good opportunity to stand up on behalf of the good people of Algoma–Manitoulin.

We just went through a federal election, and I had the opportunity and the privilege of seeing all of the great people in the Washington buildings in Elliot Lake, in both building 1 and building 3, and also the Warsaw buildings. Why do I mention those buildings? Because there are a lot of loving seniors who are within those buildings, and they have beautiful family members and all of them have paws. This is something that is going to be near and dear to them. It’s always nice, meeting up with them.

I want to commend the member from Ottawa West–Nepean for bringing up one of his family members in regard to the service dogs and how they provide help to your family member. That’s another major thing that came up during the door-knocking that I was doing during the federal campaign: A lot of these service dogs are not being recognized. They’re not being permitted to go into certain establishments. Why? One of the reasons is that there’s no established criteria on how we train these service dogs, and people are always looking for that. So we’d like to have some type of a uniform method.

But again, there needs to be that respect for individuals who have their service dog with them, in order to help them with their daily experiences and the challenges that they have.

I do have a concern with this bill. We will be supporting this bill, by the way. However, the concern that we have is the money that’s going to go into it. What I mean by “money” is, where will the inspections be, and where will the enforcement of this particular act, the PAWS Act, be? How much money is going to go into getting those individuals, and to making sure that our friendly, furry creatures are being cared for throughout the entire province?

Those are some of the concerns I’m hearing, and I’m hoping to hear more on that during this debate.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Questions and comments?

Ms. Donna Skelly: I’m so proud to once again stand up in support of Bill 136, because this is really the right thing to do, to modernize animal welfare right across Ontario. I was proud, when I was in the Legislature yesterday, to hear that we will be getting support from our members of the opposition, because this is the right thing for animal welfare in Ontario.

For about a hundred years, Ontario animal welfare fell under the jurisdiction of the Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. That particular format, that model, resulted in great gaps of enforcement and oversight right across Ontario. Bill 136 addresses that.

Under this particular proposed piece of legislation, it will bring jurisdiction for animal welfare and oversight and accountability under a different format. It will also provide the highest degree of direct oversight, something that has been lacking in the existing model.

I know that my colleague across the aisle spoke about funding. In the particular model that we’re bringing forward, funding is a set provincial responsibility, versus the charitable OSPCA model. That meant that the previous model relied on fundraising. We are going to be addressing that. We are going to have inspectors who will be hired and fall under provincial jurisdiction.

Mr. Speaker, our party, and members across the aisle, whether they’re in the official opposition or in the independents, all want to do what’s best for the protection of domestic pets and for agricultural livestock. Clearly, Bill 136 is bringing forward a more fulsome approach to animal welfare.

I’m very proud to once again speak on behalf of this particular proposed legislation, and I look forward to the support from members of the opposition.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Questions and comments?

M. Guy Bourgouin: Ça me fait plaisir de me lever sur le projet de loi 136. Vous savez, monsieur le Président, que ma circonscription, géographiquement, est énorme. C’est pour ça que, quand on parle de protéger les animaux de compagnie, je crois que c’est tellement important. Dans le Nord, pour protéger les animaux, on est des fervents défendeurs quand ça arrive au trappage. Les trappeurs dans le Nord, on est tout le temps conscients qu’il faut être humanitaires quand on abat l’animal ou quand on trappe certains animaux. Mais quand ça vient à nos animaux de compagnie, ça va sans dire que c’est encore plus important.

Ce qui nous concerne avec ce projet de loi, ce sont les inspecteurs. Comment nos inspecteurs vont-ils être appuyés? Comment nos inspecteurs vont-ils être subventionnés? Quand on regarde une circonscription qui est probablement la deuxième—si ce n’est pas la première—plus grande en Ontario, ça va sans dire qu’on est concernés. Des personnes qui ont leurs animaux de compagnie, s’il y a de l’abus, ou que ça soit des chenils qui font de l’abus ou que d’autres animaux se font abuser, il est important qu’on ait les inspecteurs. Il est important que les inspecteurs puissent se déplacer.

On a vu souvent qu’il y a eu des coupures dans le ministère des terres et forêts, avec des inspecteurs ou des officiers de la loi qui ne pouvaient pas faire leur travail encore à cause que les subventions, ou l’argent, n’étaient pas là pour être capables de faire leur travail adéquatement.

On supporte le projet de loi, mais on a quelques difficultés à voir où on va avec ce projet de loi.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Questions and comments?

Mr. Stephen Crawford: It’s a pleasure to be here today to speak on Bill 136. It has been said that you can judge a society by the way it treats its animals. And Bill 136, I believe, is a very positive bill for animal protection in this province.

When our government took office, we inherited a system of animal welfare protection that was completely inadequate and lacked oversight. As with everything else our government is doing, we have been listening and consulting—and we have heard—in order to create the contents of this legislation.

This is an issue the people of Ontario care very deeply about. The welfare of Ontario’s animals in our homes, on our farms or in our zoos and aquariums is important to people, and it’s important to our government. What Ontarians want is a clear, accountable animal welfare regime with appropriate oversight, transparency and consistency. There should be a consistent set of enforcement practices and rules for all Ontarians.

The system that Bill 136 is proposing is the product of extensive consultation with stakeholders, including all of the humane societies across the province, organizations that are at the front line of animal welfare, education and enforcement. From these consultations, our government’s firm belief is that a provincially operated system is in the best interests to ensure the highest standard of animal welfare enforcement province-wide. This system, under Bill 136, will be supported by an accountable and transparent oversight framework and the introduction of the strongest penalties in Canada for offenders.

Bill 136 will allow Ontarians to have more oversight, public trust and accountability under the chief inspector.

With this legislation, our government is making the next critical step towards a new, modern and transparent animal welfare system in Ontario. I’m proud to say that Ontario will become the first province in Canada to introduce a provincially operated enforcement system that will be locally deployed with provincial inspectors—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Thank you.

We’ll return to the member from Ottawa West–Nepean to conclude this portion of the debate.

Mr. Jeremy Roberts: I would like to thank my four colleagues who provided comments on this.

To the member for Algoma–Manitoulin, I appreciate your comments, your feedback and I also appreciate your thoughts on service animals. I know that the member for Kitchener South–Hespeler is particularly passionate about this issue, and I have no doubt that, working together across this chamber, we can look at ways to improve and strengthen our service animal framework here in the province.

To the member from Flamborough–Glanbrook, I appreciate your comments on the enforcement act gaps and how that was really a motivation for us here, to make sure that we are addressing those gaps as well as we possibly can, and bringing this under a provincial framework so that they’re not just relying on fundraising so that we have an active role to play here. I think that is incredibly important.

Au député de Mushkegowuk–James Bay, je vous remercie pour vos commentaires à propos de la situation dans le nord de la province. Je pense que c’est vraiment important d’avoir un système qui prend soin de la situation dans le Nord. Donc je pense que vos commentaires sont vraiment importants à ce sujet.

And to the member from Oakville—again, highlighting the fact that this law just didn’t pop up overnight, that there were extensive consultations done across multiple humane societies across the province that are doing truly, truly wonderful work, Mr. Speaker, in making sure that we are protecting and saving some of those vulnerable animals.

I’d just like to conclude by thanking the Solicitor General for bringing this piece of legislation forward. I think it’s incredibly important and look forward to the continued debate.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Further debate?

Ms. Peggy Sattler: I’m pleased to rise today on behalf of the people I represent in London West. I want to begin by congratulating this government on this bill. Sadly, Speaker, I have had very few opportunities to begin debate that way, but clearly, with Bill 136, the government has worked to bring forward legislation that actually unites Ontarians rather than divides them, and provides us all with an opportunity to take real action on an issue that Ontarians virtually unanimously agree is important.

We know, Speaker, that there was a national poll a few years ago that said that 92% of Canadians want better laws to protect animals from cruelty and abuse. More recently this year, in January, Dr. Kendra Coulter, an academic at Brock University, conducted an online survey of 20,000 Ontarians. In this province, 95% of those who participated in that survey said that Ontario’s legal system should be taking crimes against animals more seriously.

There was an opportunity for open-ended comments in this online survey. One of the comments is particularly insightful, Speaker. The respondent said that animal abuse is the “canary in the coal mine” of abuse. If you save the canary, you save all the others who follow. Certainly, there is a wealth of research that demonstrates the link between abuse of animals and abuse of women and children. For that reason alone, it is important for this Legislature to act to put in place the strongest animal cruelty protections that we can.

We also know that there is an association between particular forms of animal abuse, like dogfighting and other kinds of crimes, like narcotics and firearm violations. So again, there is a compelling public safety rationale for moving ahead with this legislation.

Of course, the other reason to move forward with this bill is because it offers a permanent fix for a model that was both inadequate to fully protect animal welfare, and also, as the Ontario Superior Court found earlier this year, unconstitutional. For a century, Speaker, Ontario has delegated enforcement of animal cruelty laws to a private charity, the OSPCA.

That means that the level of enforcement and the quality of enforcement rely on the effectiveness of the fundraising efforts conducted by that private charity, and it also means that there is inconsistency across the province in how the enforcement is implemented. It’s also a complete anomaly in how people expect governments to work. When Legislatures pass laws, citizens normally expect the governments to enforce those laws, to be responsible, to put in place strong enforcement mechanisms, and for the ministry in charge of the legislation to be accountable for the enforcement of those laws.

So it’s long past time. A hundred years later here we are, but we are finally moving forward to create a publicly accountable, publicly funded and publicly operated animal welfare regime, which is what this bill does.

Now, several of my colleagues on this side of the House have raised concerns about the lack of specifics of how this enforcement regime is actually going to work. It’s one thing to say that we have the strongest enforcement legislation in Canada, but it’s another thing to put the resources behind that legislation to ensure that it is actually effective. The effectiveness really depends on what kinds of resources are attached. So how quickly are these new animal inspection officers going to be hired? What kind of training will they receive? How much training will they receive?

What kinds of protections will be put in place to support them as they are doing their work? Going in to break up a dogfighting ring, for example, Speaker, can be a very dangerous situation for these officers.

And, of course, we know that there will also be a need for training for the police officers and the crown attorneys who are going to be involved in prosecuting violations under this legislation, to avoid situations like the one we heard about in Niagara Falls where charges were laid against a veterinarian who was caught on video just viciously abusing animals in his care, and those charges were later dropped.

We don’t know what happened within the legal system to allow those charges to be dropped, but certainly better training of the crown attorneys and the police officers has the potential to help prevent that from happening in the future. We also know that the plans that will be put in place for animal care and veterinary forensics will have an impact on the effectiveness of this bill.

This bill leaves quite a few details to regulation, which is another concern, as well as the lack of specifics about resources. We’ll be waiting to see regulations about the standards for custody and care of animals. We’ll be waiting to see regulations about who can relieve animals in distress; in a hot car, for example. Who is the prescribed person? Is it a citizen? Is it a police officer? Is it is a firefighter? Who is authorized to do that? What are the minor offences or major offences which are distinguished in this bill? There is no description of what those offences involve.

How will forfeited animals be dealt with? What is going to be the role of the private debt collector? So there are a number of elements in this bill that we’ll only hear about when we see the regulations.

Speaker, I also want to take two minutes and 20 seconds to talk about some of the missed opportunities in this bill. This is a welcome development for animals, for people who care about animals in this province, but there is more that we could have done in this bill, and maybe we can have that conversation when amendments are proposed at committee. Ontario is the only province currently that doesn’t have any exotic animal legislation, and that is a gap that we could look at filling with this bill. We all remember the IKEA monkey.

Ontarians did not think that that was acceptable, that people have exotic animals that they’re taking into retail stores. It shouldn’t be left up to cities. We should have some kind of provincial consistency.

We also should be looking at cosmetic mutilations or unnecessary surgical procedures for animals, things like cat declawing, tail docking of dogs, cropping of dogs’ ears. These are the kinds of procedures that could also be prohibited through this legislation.

Finally, Speaker, I just wanted to mention another missed opportunity that I would love to see this government move forward with. Currently, veterinary clinics are not permitted to operate as charities. Under the Veterinarians Act, they have to be run as business corporations. In London, we have a veterinary clinic that provides high-volume spay-neuter procedures for low-income families, as well as geared-to-income veterinary services.

This kind of initiative, allowing veterinary clinics like that to operate as charities, would enable low-income people to have the same access to pet ownership and the same benefits of pet ownership as many of us in this chamber also enjoy. We’ve spoken about our love for our pets and we know the benefits of pet ownership in terms of health and social well-being.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Questions and comments?

Ms. Goldie Ghamari: It’s really great to be talking about Bill 136 today. Just like many of my colleagues here, I am a pet owner. I’ve had my dog Baxter for over nine years now, and he really is a part of the family and my fur baby, as I like to call him.

Recently, Mr. Speaker, I actually met with Mr. Bruce Roney, who is the CEO and executive director of the Ottawa Humane Society. It’s interesting, because initially he wanted to meet to talk about some of the concerns that he had in the past with the way that things had been going with prior regulations.

However, we had a very pleasant meeting because he sat down and said, “You know, I had a whole bunch of issues, but now that the legislation has come out, we’re actually very happy with it and we’re very happy with the direction that this government is taking and where it’s going.” He said that he was pleasantly surprised that the inspectors will have even more powers than before. He did say that some of the challenges and some of the concerns he’s having is about how police services will deal with this legislation.

My understanding is that he and other humane societies across the province will be working with their local police forces to set up some training.

We also had a really good discussion about rural animal welfare because Carleton, just like many other ridings, is very rural. Agriculture and animal welfare in agriculture is very different than the way you would take care of a dog or cat. I was pleased that there is still going to be work with the Ontario Federation of Agriculture to support our farmers, because I think ultimately that is very important, and I am very pleased to support this bill.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Questions and comments?

Miss Monique Taylor: It always gives me great pride to rise in the House on behalf of the folks of Hamilton Mountain and to commend my colleague the member from London West on a very thoughtful, well-put-together debate. She raised very valid points that I don’t think I’ve heard in the Legislature yet, pertaining particularly to the correlation between animal abuse, woman abuse and child abuse. When someone hurts an animal, what is it that they’re doing to human beings? That was a very valid point that she raised that I don’t believe I’ve heard in any of the previous discussion.

Also, the fact is the training and the enforcement needs to happen along with this bill, but we’re seeing it as being very vague and a lot being left to regulation, which is always concerning, because the people of Ontario will not have any say when it comes to regulations in legislation. So we have great concerns. We want to know: where the training is going to happen, is there going to be enough training for enforcement officers and how are we going to keep those enforcement officers safe? Health and safety on the job will still persist when it comes to animal enforcement.

So we have to ensure that these folks who are going in to break up things such as dogfights and animal rings, who could be put in a very precarious position and could be in danger, have the safety to go with that.

Also, financial stability: We don’t know what kind of money is going to be attached to this to ensure that we do have proper enforcement, that we have the training to go with it, that we have enough bodies on the ground to make sure the animals in this province truly are protected.

Congratulations to the member, and I look forward to the rest of the debate.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Questions and comments?

Mr. David Piccini: I would like to compliment the member opposite for a well-thought-out speech, and of course my colleague the MPP from Kanata-Carleton for the excellent points.

Ms. Goldie Ghamari: Just Carleton.

Mr. David Piccini: From Carleton, sorry.

I think it was important when the member opposite spoke about early signs. When one abuses an animal or treats it with profound disrespect and abuse, it’s an early sign of what could be abuse later on to children, marital violence etc. That came up in a round table that we had with our municipalities, our humane societies, enforcement and the OSPCA in my riding. That’s an excellent point.

I’d like to echo what she said and say that this is important, to have this in the dialogue. But I want to tie it into the framework. One of the critical pieces on oversight: With provincial inspectors now under the province, that role will be important for wraparound services, so when a provincial inspector goes into a home and we see perhaps someone living below the poverty line, we can tie them in to the supports they need. When we see early indicators of what could be spousal abuse and other things, we now have that provincial oversight for that.

I encourage the opposition to keep talking about this, to work with our government on this, because it’s important. We’ve got the framework in place. After 15 years of neglect for animals under the previous Liberal government, we are now taking comprehensive action with the oversight piece; with the provincial inspectors, who will be governed by a body; and, of course, with some of the strictest penalties.

They’re absolutely right. Let’s keep that important dialogue going forward. Let’s talk about those wraparound services, those early interventions and how we can best do that, and assign the appropriate resources for that.

The regulations here are important. I’m glad the minister is working with a sound framework here. I encourage members opposite to work with our government to ensure that we continue to build on this important piece of legislation.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Questions and comments?

Mr. Kevin Yarde: Regulations on animal welfare have long been overdue. We’re all aware of that. It’s a positive response, to the government, what they’ve been doing here with this bill, the PAWS Act. I’m grateful, but there are some issues, and I’ll talk about them in the minute and 45 seconds that I have here.

This government, along with the previous Liberal government, have known for a long time that the system we had in place wasn’t working. Both have let the animals and the people of this province down by allowing a broken animal welfare system with little to no accountability to continue. We’ve seen countless animal abusers go through the system and just get a slap on the wrist. This government has failed to act until now, when the situation has clearly reached a boiling point and they have no other choice.

What we’re seeing with this new legislation is encouraging, as I mentioned, and it may seem to many that we’re thinking about this—we’re fairly cautiously optimistic about it. We’re the only province in the country where we have a public model of animal law enforcement. The bill introduces the strongest penalties in Canada for offenders, which is good.

If this bill passes, there’s a hope that dedicated animal welfare officers and adequate support and resources will be put in a position to effectively police animal cruelty complaints. As my member from London West mentioned as well, crown prosecutors will have to effectively enforce the law by prosecuting offences, including new offences, in the bill. We’re hopeful that that will happen.

Even the best legislation won’t be able to protect our animals if the funding and resources fall short, so we need to employ enough animal inspectors to serve the needs of Ontario. We need public servants who are properly trained, as we’ve been mentioning, to handle the unique and often dangerous situations involved in animal welfare.

Once again, Mr. Speaker, hopefully, the government will see these complaints—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Thank you.

We’ll return now to the member from London West.

Ms. Peggy Sattler: I want to thank the member for Carleton, my colleagues from Hamilton Mountain and Brampton North, and also the member for Northumberland–Peterborough South for their comments on my remarks.

The member for Northumberland–Peterborough South said that he’s looking forward to working together with the official opposition on this legislation. I want to say I appreciate the fact that we finally have something to work together on. This is one of the few times that there has been an opportunity to work together to advance an issue that has support from the majority of people in this province.

But it really depends on if we do it right. I want to again emphasize the concerns that we have raised about funding, about resources and about the number of things that have been left to regulation in this bill.

A couple of my colleagues talked about the correlation between abuse of animals and domestic violence. That is something that the research, the literature, has unequivocally demonstrated: There is a high correlation between domestic violence, child abuse and animal abuse. Frequently, these three forms of abuse occur simultaneously within a family.

So, as well as having inspectors identify the potential of domestic violence occurring in a family, we have to make sure that supports are there for women who have experienced domestic violence, for children who have experienced abuse. Sadly, something we have not seen from this government is a commitment to increase those supports. That is something that we definitely want to work on.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Further debate?

Mrs. Gila Martow: I’m very pleased to rise today to speak a little bit on

An Act to enact the Provincial Animal Welfare Services Act—Bill 136. Of course, we’re all complimenting each other on the name of this bill. The short name is PAWS, and that’s obviously the first letters in the main name of the bill.

We’re talking about animal welfare. We want to have a seamless, modern, transparent, easy-to-use system, free for the public to report any signs of abuse of animals in the province of Ontario.

Obviously, the focus is on domestic animals, on pets. Over 60% of Canadians own pets, and I am one of them. If the Speaker will allow me to very quickly show, that’s a picture—as the member from Carleton called her dog—of my fur baby. I have a dog named Chelsea. It’s the first dog I’ve ever owned. My only previous pet when I was a kid was a guinea pig—that’s all I could get my parents to agree to—but I loved her as much, probably, as I like this dog.

For a lot of families in Ontario, we go door to door and we see a lot of the pets greeting us at the door. Most of them are quite friendly. For a lot of families, this is their friend. I’m not going to say it’s their child—maybe sometimes it is—but it’s certainly a very dear friend to them.

People are concerned about animals and how they’re being treated in other homes across the province of Ontario. We had a system where the OSPCA was doing investigations into abuse and neglect of animals, and the system was not working. There were problems involving inspections on private property, so now we’re moving to more of an investigation type of system of the way the OPP investigates human neglect and human abuse. It’s going to be much more similar to that.

The member from Ottawa West–Nepean spoke about his Great Dane—he didn’t say it was a Great Dane—named Apollo, and how he’s looking forward to bringing Apollo onto patios this summer. I had mentioned to him that it would have to be a rather large patio to fit Apollo. But what I was thinking about was that by having animals outside in the community, on our patios, in our parks, we’re able to see that they’re well taken care of. The fact is that when things are behind closed doors, that’s when abuse can happen to children, to women, to seniors and to men, obviously, as well. When things are out in the open, it gives us a chance to have the public’s eyes on what’s going on.

We know that there has already been an effort, even before this legislation was presented. We all agree that we would like to see it passed sooner rather than later. There seems to be all-party, unanimous support for this piece of legislation so far.

There is already in operation a 1-800 phone number. It’s 1-833-9-ANIMAL, so that’s 1-833-926-4625. It’s available to call in 24 hours a day.

I already asked if people are going to be able to send in some photos and videos of potential abuse and neglect, and I was told that it’s really going to follow closely, as I said, with the OPP investigations of humans. Unfortunately, not everybody should be taking care of an animal or a child in the province of Ontario, and we really appeal to the public because that’s who we need to work with to report things.

I’m reminded of the humane societies in Ontario. The member from Ottawa West–Nepean mentioned former Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s wife, Laureen. I’m reminded of a story I read in the newspaper where there was a reporter outside who was cut somehow. Laureen Harper was just arriving home and saw he was bleeding. She grabbed him by the arm and brought him through a side entrance, somehow, into the kitchen, where the former Prime Minister was reading the newspaper. He didn’t even look up from the paper and just said, “Another stray, my dear?” She was always bringing in stray animals, mostly cats, to take care of. She really had a big heart for animals.

I have in my riding of Thornhill Shelley Austin and Roz Brodsky—Shelley is actually on the board of the Toronto Humane Society—who work very hard rescuing animals all across the province of Ontario, driving very long distances to rescue animals.

We know that animals can suffer psychological harm that affects them for the rest of their lives. We’ve all met a lot of dogs and cats that have been rescued. Sometimes they overcome their emotional trauma and sometimes they don’t completely overcome it. Some of them have a lot of trouble socializing with people or socializing with other animals. It’s quite heartbreaking when we see the potential lost in a child or an animal because of abuse or neglect.

We are proposing that there be a multidisciplinary advisory team of experts to advise ongoing. I think that is something that I feel is very important when we pass this type of legislation, that we have ongoing discussions. It can’t just be that today we decide for the next 10 years or until the legislation is looked at again, that we decide this is how things are going to be without taking into account new technology. There’s an app that I have—I think it’s called Pawscout—on my phone that you sign up for. The animals wear something on their collars and everybody can help out if a pet is missing. If it’s near them, the app will notify you to notify the owner where the pet is.

Obviously, this is presented under the Ministry of the Solicitor General. The plan is to have provincial inspectors for the whole province. That’s one of the things we see—and we heard the member from London West say that abuse of animals is like the canary in the coal mine because we all know that it can lead to abuse of children, adults or seniors, that oftentimes people, I guess the word would be “experiment,” on abusing pets. It’s a sign that there is the potential for the same individuals to abuse human beings as well. So maybe they need a little bit of rehab, as it were.

It’s not enough to just fine people and ticket people or even ban them from owning pets. We need to come up with some type of a program that people can enter and there are people to help them deal with whatever it is that they are harbouring, this violence that they are showing to animals that may, in the future, become violence towards human beings.

We have in the province of Ontario a serious problem—we’ve discussed it here in the House before—with human trafficking. One of the issues is that we don’t have a province-wide system in place, and that’s what we’ve all been working towards having: a seamless, province-wide system to report and collaborate on human trafficking so that people aren’t just moved around and abused in a different part of the province. I would like to see the same for animal abuse, that it should be province-wide, it should be seamless, and there should be data collected.

I think that that’s always the give-and-take with all of these types of legislation: If data is collected, what’s going to be done with that data? Who’s going to have access to that data? There’s always privacy and security concerns, but at the end of the day, the data could be very useful to tell us if we’re doing a good job and if there are things that we could be doing better.

This bill deals with questions about agricultural animals, where experts will have to be brought in to deal with the question of abuse or neglect of animals on farms and horses in our horse racing industry. Obviously, there will have to be some specialized inspectors who are involved in a lot of those cases.

In terms of penalties and sentences, there are going to be minor non-ticketable offences. Fines can go all the way up to $75,000 or six months in jail, and that’s only for the first offence. It can rise for multiple offences.

I think this shows that we are taking the issue very seriously. We’re very concerned about abuse and neglect of animals, for the reason that our constituents care. We’re all hearing from our constituents all the time, and it’s something that matters to them very deeply. They want to have an easy way to report what they suspect might be abuse or neglect, and I think that there is obviously always a grey area between what one person might think is abuse or neglect—there are some animals who love to be out in the extreme cold weather; they actually prefer it. They’ve got the coat for it,

whereas other animals would freeze quite quickly. So it’s hard for people to know. We’re not all experts.

I’m looking forward to more debate, but more than that, Mr. Speaker, I’m looking forward to see this passed by the timeline we would like, which is January 1, 2020. We would like to see this passed and in place. The toll-free number, though, is already operational, but we would like to see our inspectors getting trained and rolling out this program.

Thank you very much for the opportunity.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Questions and comments?

Mrs. Jennifer (Jennie) Stevens: Any piece of legislation that deals with and protects the welfare of animals is vital. It’s encouraging to learn that this government is taking steps to ensure that vulnerable animals are protected under the provincial legislation, especially those in possible inhumane living conditions, such as zoos or aquariums. As we were told a few days back, this bill seeks to strengthen enforcement and introduces the strongest penalties across Canada for offenders. I believe this is crucial. I hope the Conservatives live up to this promise.

Whatever penalties are imposed upon offenders, they need to be harsh enough to act as a deterrent. Too often, we see people reoffending or not taking the law seriously when it comes to animals. Too often, people put profits above the welfare of living, breathing creatures. This bill is important because it ensures charges against animal abusers are carried out and violators are actually prosecuted for their crimes. Too often, cruelty charges are dropped despite evidence, which leads to doubt with the public.

In St. Catharines, my home riding, a veterinarian was charged for literally abusing, and being seen on video abusing, an animal. Speaker, this might sound harsh, but he was seen taking a cat and smacking it on the ground. He was charged, but the charges were dropped.

Ontario will have faith when the government commits to fully funding inspections and enforcement, making sure enough inspectors are hired to actually intervene. It means a lot to the riding of St. Catharines, when this veterinarian was allowed to go back to practice.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Questions and comments?

Mr. Jeremy Roberts: I’d like to thank the member for Thornhill for her comments, for her remarks and for doing another shout-out to Apollo, my Great Dane puppy. You are absolutely right: I am really not quite sure whether Apollo would fit on a patio. We’ll have to find out next summer. I think patio season is over, much to all of our distress.

Mr. Speaker, over the course of the last year, I think all of us have been trying to get a chance to get to know each other and find out what sort of things we’re passionate about outside of this chamber, outside of our job. The one thing that has become so apparent to me is that the member for Thornhill truly has a special place in her heart for all animals. Every time I’ve seen her, she’s always the first to come over and ask to see the latest pictures of Apollo, see how big he is and ask me how the pup’s doing, so I know that this legislation is deeply, deeply important to her.

I think it goes back to something I spoke about earlier, and that’s that these animals that we care for become such an important part of our families, that we want to make sure the protections are there to make sure that anybody committing some of these unspeakable acts that one of my colleagues opposite spoke about earlier gets punished, that they face the strictest penalties. I think that’s what everybody wants to see.

I’m pleased to hear that in Thornhill, as in Ottawa West–Nepean, this is an issue that comes up time and time again at the door from people who want to see these protections in place. I’m looking forward to January 1, 2020, when these enforcement mechanisms come into place, when our provincial inspectors are there. I encourage you at home, if you see an instance of animal abuse or cruelty, to call 1-833-9-ANIMAL.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Questions and comments?

Mr. Kevin Yarde: While it’s easy for us to think about animal cruelty and just talk about our cats and our dogs, of course our family members, but we also have to look at the agricultural industry, particularly the Beef Farmers of Ontario, along with other livestock organizations. They’ve been actively involved in the consultation process, which is great. We’re glad to see that. We need to keep working with them, as well as other agricultural industries, in the long term. We need to ensure that there are adequate regulations and funding in place so that all animals—not just cats and dogs, but all animals—are protected in this province, regardless of their location, context or industry.

Now, the ministry is planning to develop more regulations, but due to the lack of clarity—this is an important point here—in these long-term discussions, it’s hard to evaluate what is still to come. We have the opportunity to reopen discussions about Ontario’s captive wildlife standards. Ontario is the only province that doesn’t have any exotic animal legislation besides a ban on orcas. Wild animals continue to suffer as pets in people’s homes and in captive environments that cannot provide for their unique needs.

One point I want to talk about as well, Mr. Speaker, is in terms of when an individual cannot pay their vet bill: What is going to happen? We’ve seen with this legislation that there is concern that what’s going to happen is that we’re going to revictimize the poor. Not everyone can pay their vet bills. What are you going to do? Take the animal away from the owner? This is something we have to get clarity on from the government. This is one area, the equity consideration. There’s concern here on our side of the aisle that these mandatory vet bills will be taking pets and animals away from pet owners. We want to make sure that this will not occur in this legislation.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Questions and comments?

Mr. David Piccini: I appreciate the opportunity to respond to my colleague’s comments, the excellent remarks she made today, and to address the member opposite’s comments. Thank you for pointing out the agriculture industry. I know when we held our round table in Northumberland–Peterborough South on animal welfare, we talked about trespassing on farms. I think back to a meeting two weeks ago with the Chicken Farmers of Ontario, with Tim Klompmaker from my community of Asphodel-Norwood, who’s happy to see a government taking action on this issue.

I know we spoke about equity concerns, and we know that animal abuse is an indicator for abuse later on—marital, family etc. I think it’s important that in our round table, one of the things that was discussed—right now, we have an inspector travelling over a 3,000-kilometre radius. They don’t have those wraparound supports, so by taking it up to the provincial level with the oversight, we’re going to enable them to do that with those important supports that you raise.

Yes, we welcome the opposition’s feedback to ensure that those wraparound supports are there, but I think what this legislation has done is that it has given that important oversight framework to animal welfare and will enable us to respond to people of different socio-economic needs—early indicators of abuse to ensure that people with mental health supports get those wraparound supports that they need.

I’m proud to be part of a government—again, after 15 years of neglect, after a government that did nothing for animal welfare in Ontario—that is acting with an appropriate oversight framework, with a one-window complaints mechanism, a multidisciplinary advisory table to listen to veterinarians, to listen to the agriculture com-munity. I look to the Minister of Agriculture right here, who is nodding. This is what it’s all about. We’ve got a robust framework here. I look forward to working with the members opposite.

I’m proud to be a part of the government that’s standing up for four-legged animals and animals that have no voice. We’re giving them a voice. We’re having some of the strictest penalties in the country of Canada.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): I’ll return to the member from Thornhill to conclude this portion of the debate.

M me Gila Martow: Je vois qu’on a des visiteurs de l’Assemblée de la francophonie de l’Ontario. Bonjour et bienvenue, encore.

Je veux remercier les députés de St. Catharines, d’Ottawa-Ouest–Nepean, de Brampton North et de Northumberland–Peterborough South pour vos remarques. Merci beaucoup.

On parle aujourd’hui du projet de loi 136. C’est une

loi sur les services provinciaux visant le bien-être des animaux et apportant des modifications corrélatives concernant la protection des animaux. On sait que plus de 60 % des Canadiens ont un ou plus d’animaux dans leur maison. Assez souvent à Thornhill, ma circonscription, ce sont des chiens, mais assez souvent ce sont aussi des chats et des rongeurs—d’autres amis à fourrure.

On a déjà parlé du fait que les animaux peuvent avoir le mal psychologique quand ils sont maltraités ou négligés. On a un numéro maintenant, c’est sans frais : 1-833-9-ANIMAL, alors c’est 926-4625. Alors, s’il vous plaît, c’est l’ouvrage de tout le monde de voir s’il y a un problème avec un animal dans votre communauté, et d’appeler les inspecteurs qui seront là pour vous parler du maltraitement des animaux dans votre communauté.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Colleagues, seeing as the time is almost at a mandatory recess time, this portion of the debate is now closed off.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): This House will now stand in recess until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1014 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): In the Speaker’s gallery today are local Wellington–Halton Hills area realtors Katrina Steffler, Karen Keleher, Christianne Mitchell and Brett Nodwell. Welcome to the Legislature. It’s great to have you here.

And soon in the Speaker’s gallery, we will have someone representing the Ontario Association of Former Parliamentarians and their job shadowing program that’s on. Maya Li Preti will be here with former Speaker David Warner. I believe they’re in the building. They’ll be in later on.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: We have with the Ontario realtors today from Windsor and Essex county Daniel Hofgartner, and earlier the member for Essex and I met with Tina Roy, Lorraine Clark and Anna Vozza—welcome all to Queen’s Park.

Mr. David Piccini: With us today we have members from the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance. We have their president, Catherine Dunne; Bardia Jalayer; David Bath; Will Greene; Matthew Gerrits; Michael Beauchemin; Rayna Porter; Nicholas Ryan; Ryan Tishcoff; and Eddy Avila.

We also have members from the College Student Alliance as well. I have a local constituent so I’m going to give her a shout-out, Chloe Craig; as well as to their president, Jecema Hewitt Vasil. They also have 30 other members, so a few too many to present. I appreciate their formative voice, voices for students and our next generation.

I’d also like to give a shout-out to our local realtors who I’ll be meeting with: Natasha Huizinga, Jody Ledgerwood, Sandra Smith and Al Switzer. If you’re here, a big shout-out to you, too. Thanks for being with us today.

M. Taras Natyshak: Comme toujours, c’est un plaisir d’accueillir les représentants de l’Assemblée de la francophonie de l’Ontario qui sont ici aujourd’hui encore : Carol Jolin, Martine Bélanger, Daniel Giroux, Lise Béland et Jacinthe Desaulniers. Bienvenue à Queen’s Park.

Hon. Michael A. Tibollo: I’d like to welcome a delegation from the Italian community from my riding of Vaughan–Woodbridge this morning. Joining us in the Legislature is Giuseppe Gigliotti, a well-respected journalist, and his assistant, Lucio Didona; Francesco Bisignano and his wife, Carole Capalbio; and lastly, Giuseppe Didiano, a well-respected businessman from Vaughan–Woodbridge as well. Welcome, all of you, to Queen’s Park.

Ms. Jill Andrew: Good morning. It’s with great pleasure that I welcome Jecema Hewitt Vasil, who is the president of the College Student Alliance and the world’s most inspiring goddaughter. She’s my goddaughter, so I’m nervous to introduce her. Welcome, honey.

Hon. Ernie Hardeman: I’m pleased to welcome to the Legislature today members from Ontario Pork, who are here representing pork farmers from across the province. I invite everyone to join us in room 230 to show their support for Ontario’s pork industry.

I’m also pleased to welcome the Ontario Dairy Council. President Christina Lewis is joined by the full ODC board today, representing dairy processors from across Ontario. I invite everyone to join us for a luncheon today in committee room 228 to sample a variety of dairy products from our province.

I’m also pleased to welcome to the Legislature members from the Ontario greenhouse association. I invite everybody to join us this evening in rooms 228 and 230 for their reception and to welcome and support Ontario’s greenhouse sector.

Ms. Sandy Shaw: We have with us here in the gallery a very special visitor. Franklin Frederick is visiting us all the way from Brazil. He is joined by Mike Balkwill and Karen Rathwell, who are representatives of the Wellington Water Watchers group. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Bill Walker: I’d like to welcome Karen Cox, president of the Ontario Real Estate Association, and her husband, Russ. They’re also great residents of the great riding of Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound. To all of the real estate professionals in the room, thanks for being here.

Mr. Guy Bourgouin: It is a pleasure to introduce today Michel Blais and Anne Marie Vaillancourt from the Timmins, Cochrane and Timiskaming Districts Association of Realtors.

Et c’est un plaisir de souhaiter la bienvenue à toutes les associations francophones qui sont ici aujourd’hui. Soyez les bienvenues à Queen’s Park.

Mr. Sam Oosterhoff: It’s a privilege to welcome to the Legislature today Randy Mulder, a constituent of mine who’s here with the Ontario Real Estate Association; Jan VanZanten and his daughter, Annemiek VanZanten, who are here with the Ontario Greenhouse Alliance; as well as farmers from the Dairy Farmers of Ontario; the pork farmers of Ontario; and the egg farmers. I’m sure there are many of them from my riding, as well. Welcome to the Legislature today.

Interjection.

Mr. Sam Oosterhoff: It covers everybody.

Mr. Dave Smith: On behalf of my colleague from Hastings–Lennox and Addington—because he’s having knee replacement surgery—I’d like to introduce a constituent from his riding, from the town of Madoc: Jay Kirktown.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Yet again on grandfather duty—our grandkids are back here again today, Victoria and Nathaniel.

I just want to report that Eva is still at SickKids. We’re waiting for transport, but she’s doing well, and her sister, Elissa, still misses her greatly.

Mrs. Robin Martin: I’d just like to welcome to the House today students from Lawrence Park Collegiate Institute, which is in my riding of Eglinton–Lawrence.

Mr. Sol Mamakwa: I’d like to welcome two guests from Thunder Bay, Karen Hill and Bob Pfaff, who are visiting Queen’s Park today on behalf of the Ontario Real Estate Association. Meegwetch.

Ms. Lindsey Park: I’d like to welcome a delegation of Durham realtors: Roger Bouma, Wendy Giroux, Rhonda Foskett, Tina Sorichetti and Vicki Sweeney.

I’d also like to welcome Rayna Porter, who is a student from the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance, from Trent University’s Durham campus.

Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Chris Glover: I’d like to welcome to the House today Aidan Yates, a student at OCAD; and from the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance, Shemar, Joshua, Nivi, Bilal, Shawn, Zemar, Katlyn, Eric, Britney and Crystal; and from the College Student Alliance, from Centennial College, Jecema, Karamjeet, Jun, Brendalee, Ivan and Yamini; and from Sault College, Jonathan, Ahmad, Keaton and Madelaine Speer.

I encourage all members to meet with the OUSA and CSA students—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The member from Niagara West.

Mr. Sam Oosterhoff: Speaker, I forgot to mention, of course, the former member for Niagara West–Glanbrook, a much wiser MPP than myself, but someone I strive to emulate. Tim Hudak, the former member for Niagara West–Glanbrook, is in the Legislature today.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Welcome. Member for Nickel Belt.

M me France Gélinas: Thank you, Speaker. I would like to welcome Ashley Sauve and Tyler Peroni from the Sudbury real estate association.

J’aimerais accueillir Peter Hominuk, Ngoné Diagne, Denis Laframboise et Badrieh Kojok de l’association francophone de l’Ontario et de leurs associations respectives.

I would also like to introduce students from the College Student Alliance: Scot Wyles, Meharpreet Hundal, Heather Firlotte, Brent Parke and Andrew Sammut.

Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Todd Smith: It’s an honour to welcome some Ontario Real Estate Association personnel from Quinte here today. We have Natasha Huizinga, Cathy Polan, Sandra Smith and Don McColl.

I would also like to welcome a board member from the Ontario Dairy Council, Stephen Quickert. He’s the proprietor of Reid’s Dairy. Many of you have seen the Reid’s Dairy castle, home of the loonie shake, in Belleville, alongside the 401. Welcome, Stephen.

Miss Monique Taylor: My daily introduction would be to the autism parents and advocates who are joining us today. We have Stacy Kennedy and Michau van Speyk. Welcome back to Queen’s Park.

Ms. Natalia Kusendova: As a proud alumni, I’d like to welcome two students from the University of Toronto, Maya Li Preti and Jubana Khan. I look forward to having a great discussion later on today. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Tom Rakocevic: I’m proud to welcome students, teachers, educators and other staff from St. Simon Catholic School in the riding of Humber River–Black Creek.

Hon. Kinga Surma: I would like to introduce two guests of mine, constituents from Etobicoke Centre, Mr. Gilles Froment and Mr. Ed Perugini, who are representatives and board members of the Ontario Dairy Council. Welcome to the House.

Mrs. Jennifer (Jennie) Stevens: Good morning, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to give a big shout-out to our page, Mathias Essig. Mathias lives in the community of Port Dalhousie in my home riding of St. Catharines, as well as his. Joining us today is Mathias’s father, Chris Essig; his mom is here in spirit; and, Speaker, it gives me great privilege to welcome Colin and Ruth Johnston, long-time residents of Port Dalhousie and St. Catharines and very, very proud grandparents to Mathias. Welcome to our House.

Also, I would like to welcome Lisa Wall from the Ontario real estate alliances, as well as the Ontario undergraduate alliances that met with me in my office yesterday.

Hon. Prabmeet Singh Sarkaria: I want to welcome the president of the Brampton Real Estate Board here today and members of the Brampton OREA team—Sukhbir Taank and the team.

I would also like to say happy birthday to my mom—71 years old—Rosemary Harden. Thank you for everything you did for me, Mom. Thank you for getting me here.

Hon. Monte McNaughton: We have a number of guests here from Lambton–Kent–Middlesex today. We have a number of egg, dairy and pork farmers, greenhouse growers and local realtors from across the riding. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Ms. Jill Andrew: I just want to give a huge congratulations to Ian Williams for his outstanding win—all the way from Brampton, Ontario—of the Scotiabank Giller Prize yesterday. Woo!

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: I’d like to welcome Moses Realejo from my riding of Perth–Wellington to the Legislature this morning. Moses is here with the Ontario Dairy Council. Also, welcome to Sue Elaine Fowler and Gwen Kirkpatrick of the Huron Perth Association of Realtors.

Ms. Marit Stiles: I’d like to welcome members of the College Student Alliance here today: Tori Arnett and Satay Komanduri from St. Lawrence College in Cornwall and Madison Roy of Georgian College in Owen Sound. Thank you very much for being here in your House.

Mr. Robert Bailey: I’d like introduce and welcome to the Legislature today Donna Mathewson, president of the Sarnia-Lambton Real Estate Board, in town for the real estate conference, which was great.

Mr. Jamie West: From the College Student Alliance, I want to welcome members from my alma mater at Cambrian College: Marie-Claude Guillemette, Lynn Courville and Gayathri Sreeni. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Ms. Judith Monteith-Farrell: I’d like to welcome the College Student Alliance to the House this morning: Vignesh Viswanathan, Sterling Finlayson and Kiran Ramesh from Confederation College in my riding.

Mr. Faisal Hassan: I would like to welcome the College Student Alliance from Fleming College Chloe Craig, Naman Khandelwal, Zoe King, Prerna Modi and Cole McCall. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Legislative pages

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): I would now ask our pages to assemble for their introductions.

From the riding of Don Valley West, Eric An; from the riding of Cambridge, Julian Bal; from the riding of Markham–Thornhill, Leela Bhide; from the riding of Pickering–Uxbridge, Luba Brown; from Scarborough–Rouge Park, Isabella Cadotte; from Eglinton–Lawrence, Yansong Chen; from Mississauga–Streetsville, Alexandra Zara Cucui; from St.

Catharines, Mathias Essig; from Parry Sound–Muskoka, Laura Foell; from Beaches–East York, Ally Ava Hao; from Timiskaming–Cochrane, Luke Hartford; from York Centre, Emily Hranovich; from Scarborough North, Johnson Jiang; from Simcoe North, Lennon Langstaff; from Scarborough–Guildwood, Visakan Makilrajah; from Etobicoke Centre, Filip Matevski; from Toronto–St.

Paul’s, Daniel Morgan; from Ottawa West–Nepean, Clara O’Brien; from Orléans, Augustine Osezua; from Newmarket–Aurora, Emily Pagliaro; from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke, Giovanni Ricciuto-Barron; from University–Rosedale, Sarah Roff; and from Oakville North–Burlington, Suhani Surya.

Please join me in welcoming this group of pages to the Ontario Legislature.

Applause.

Oral Questions

Premier’s comments

Ms. Sara Singh: My question is for the Premier, and I hope he takes the opportunity to answer the question himself and speak directly to Ontario parents.

Yesterday, the Minister of Education refused to answer some basic questions about the Premier’s attacks on teachers even as he insisted that the Ford government shouldn’t be blamed for the conflict and the cuts in our classrooms. The Premier has spent the last year on the job attacking teachers, calling them thugs and doing everything he could to pick a fight with them.

So I’m asking the Premier—and again, I hope the Premier will answer—does he regret making those comments, and is he willing to apologize?

Hon. Doug Ford: Minister of Education.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Order. The standing orders allow ministers to refer questions to other ministers. Let’s make that clear: They can choose to do so or not.

The question has been referred to the Minister of Education.

Hon. Stephen Lecce: The Premier of this province, every member of this cabinet and caucus stand with the front-line workers of this province: our teachers, our nurses and our doctors. We believe, Mr. Speaker, so much that we want to see them succeed. It’s why in the most recent labour negotiations, just yesterday, we tabled a plan to move to mediation in order to get a good deal for the students of this province.

The Premier has been very clear about his expectations of me, that we remain constructive and reasonable and student-centric to get deals so that the parents of this province are able to keep their children in class. We stand with them on that mission.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Supplementary question?

Ms. Sara Singh: Back to the Premier: Last April, in response to thousands of high school students who spoke out about the government’s education cuts, the Premier said, “This isn’t about class sizes.... This is strictly from the union thugs ... the teachers’ union.” The Premier went on to say that he had the “backbone” to “hold them accountable.”

How can the Ford government claim to be looking for solutions with our teachers when the Premier has made it clear that he is desperate to pick a fight with them?

Hon. Stephen Lecce: The greatest solution that we could offer to families in this province is a deal that keeps their children in class.

Mr. Speaker, our plan is to move forward with mediation. In the most recent deal we received with CUPE, we turned to a mediator to help us address the few outstanding issues that remained. By doing so, we were able to deliver a good deal that was good for the workers, good for the government and good for the trustees. That’s the win-win-win proposition that we seek.

What is frustrating for those who observe is that every three years we are back in the same position, irrespective of party. I want to be clear: Parents deserve to have predictability. Their children ought to be in class. The continuum of learning should not be impeded because a bunch of lawyers can’t get their act together. Families deserve that predictability, and our government seeks to deliver it for every student in this province.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Final supplementary?

Ms. Sara Singh: For months, parents and students have watched as classroom cuts have taken their toll, and they’ve watched as the Premier attacks teachers in our classrooms, calling them thugs and making threats. And the Premier has yet to even apologize, Mr. Speaker. In fact, he continues to use the same language over and over again.

Yesterday, the Minister of Education claimed that the Premier values these front-line workers. So today, again, I’ll ask the Premier, and we need to hear this answer directly from him, Speaker: Does he consider this a good way to build a respectful working relationship with the people who teach our children?

Hon. Stephen Lecce: As I affirmed yesterday, every member of the Progressive Conservative team believes and stands with our workers in this province. It’s why, Mr. Speaker, we have, yesterday, in order to ensure that our teachers, the very subject of the question, remain working in class, doing what they do best, doing what they seek to do every single day, which is inspire the next generation of workers—that is why we’ve turned to mediation.

I’d hope all members of the Legislature would stand with the government in turning to a reasonable proposition to consider mediation to get a deal. It is a path that worked for CUPE; it’s a path we seek to replicate with our teachers.

Mr. Speaker, at the end of the day, the mission for the government is not just a deal, but a good deal for our kids. We did it with CUPE; we hope to do that with our teachers within the coming weeks.

Education funding

Ms. Marit Stiles: My question is to the Premier. When the Premier first announced plans to expand class sizes and take 10,000 of our teachers out of schools, he claimed parents and teachers would welcome the change and that it would improve education in Ontario, but it hasn’t. It has made things worse, and it’s only year one.

My question is to the Premier, and I want to note that parents and students want to hear an answer from the Premier himself: Will the Premier reverse this terrible course that’s hurting so many of our children?

Hon. Doug Ford: Minister of Education.

Hon. Stephen Lecce: The basis of the question is premised on funding, and I want to be clear to the Legislature that this government, under the leadership of this Premier, is spending more on public education than any government in the history of Ontario. Those are the facts.

Another fact: We’ve just opened up a $550-million program to help renew schools and build new schools in the province—over $1.2 billion in renewal; a $200-million four-year math strategy to lift math scores over time. Mr. Speaker, we’re doing all this because we believe in the potential of our students and because we believe in the defence of public and Catholic education in the province of Ontario.

Our plan is to help grow the economy and keep taxes low, but most importantly, it’s about having the ability to invest in the social services that matter: $1.9 billion more in health care, $1.2 billion more in education. We’re going to continue to invest in the priorities of working people in this province.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The supplementary question.

Ms. Marit Stiles: I’m going to return back to the Premier again, but I just want to say, this is complete fiction coming from this minister. Please, the education spending in this province is down. The Financial Accountability Office says it’s down. You’re talking about—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Order. I’m going to caution the member on her language and ask her to place her question.

Ms. Marit Stiles: The Minister of Education spent all day yesterday desperately deflecting blame, but it’s not a mystery why there has been so little progress at the bargaining table. The Premier has threatened full-day kindergarten and eliminated thousands of high school classes, everything from construction technology to math and advanced physics courses. He has forced students into a misguided online learning program. Teachers think this is a bad idea. Parents and students think this is a bad idea. Why is the Premier so committed to these cuts?

Hon. Stephen Lecce: I just want to respectfully reject the premise of the question. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, when it comes to areas of priority for students in the province, in mental health we’ve more than doubled the funding allocation. For special education needs, it’s over $3.1 billion, the highest allocation ever invested in special ed. For transportation it’s at the highest levels. For French language it’s at the highest levels. For First Nations it is at the highest levels ever in the history of this province. So, Mr. Speaker, to hear the rhetoric from the member opposite is simply not true.

What we are also doing, beyond the expenditure, is investing in and improving our curriculum—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): I’m going to ask the minister to withdraw.

Hon. Stephen Lecce: I withdraw.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): And conclude his answer.

Hon. Stephen Lecce: What we’ve also ensured is that our curriculum remains updated, with a math strategy that gets back to basics. Mr. Speaker, we’re going to continue to focus on the success of our students.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The final supplementary.

Ms. Marit Stiles: Back to the Premier: I won’t even refer to this spending shell game that the minister is talking about. Here’s what parents and students see right now: Teachers working hard, often paying out of pocket to provide education to our children; and a Premier who calls them “thugs” while firing 10,000 of them, forcing kids into untested online learning modules based on a program in Alabama, and into overflowing classrooms.

The Ford government claims that they want to avoid more chaos in our schools. Will the Premier start today by reversing his classroom cuts?

Hon. Stephen Lecce: We’re going to continue to build on our positive plan to improve education in the province of Ontario. We’re going to continue to invest in our students, we’re going to continue to renew our schools, update our curriculum with a more labour-focused alignment to ensure young people can get access to good-paying jobs.

Our plan is to keep children in class, which is the first basis of this discussion. Our plan yesterday is nothing more than an objective to keep the parties at the table to ensure that they know that we are serious in getting a good deal, an enduring deal, through mediation, that allows parents to have the predictability that they deserve.

Government contracts

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My question to the Premier: Last year, this government insisted there would be no cost to cancelling renewable energy projects like the White Pines wind farm. To quote the then government House leader, “We put in a plan, a procedure, that is going to deal with this wind farm project without costing the taxpayers.”

In the public accounts for the Ministry of Energy, there is a strange little entry. It shows the government spent $231 million on some undetailed “other transactions.” Will the Premier confirm that this $231 million represents the cost of cancelling about 750 renewable energy contracts last year?

Hon. Doug Ford: Associate Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bill Walker: Thanks to my colleague for his question. We thought maybe one would be coming at some point.

Mr. Speaker, I want to be very clear right from the outset that this municipality was an unwilling host from day one. They did not want the turbines, and we did the right thing. The member from the Bay of Quinte from day one said that they did not want it and they would not have one there.

At the end of the day, our government has been very clear that it would act to cancel any unnecessary contracts. Ontario has an adequate supply of power right now. The capacity that this project would have provided is not required at this time. The Environmental Review Tribunal actually decreased it from 29 turbines to nine turbines early in the sequence, which should have led to cancelling the contract at that time.

The termination act happened on July 25, 2018, effectively terminating the project’s contract with the Independent Electricity System Operator and revoking project-related permits. They didn’t want it, they don’t—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you.

The supplementary question.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Speaker, I take that as a yes. I appreciate that information.

Wasting $231 million to cancel hydro contracts is the sort of thing that the previous Liberal government did during the gas plants scandal. The similarities are striking. We saw what the Liberal government did to hydro bills, and now Premier Ford is doing the same thing at the same time, because he’s letting hydro prices increase.

How can the Premier claim he’s saving taxpayers and ratepayers money when he’s throwing away $231 million to not build renewable energy?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Order. Stop the clock. The House will come to order.

Restart the clock. The Associate Minister of Energy to reply.

Hon. Bill Walker: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Let’s start with how most of the things that the Green Energy Act did, that the Liberal government did, put this province in a perilous state. They spent billions and billions of dollars that our kids and grandkids will continue to pay. This was yet one more project.

We did not need the power. We have an adequate supply of power. We knew that from day one. They knew that from day one, and they continued to impose these—like White Pines—on unwilling hosts. At the end of the day, we knew that we didn’t need this power. It was intermittent power at best and, again, we did not need it.

We are taking all actions that we can. The energy sector: We went from the lowest rates in Confederation to the highest rates. We’re still trying to figure out ways to lower those costs and bring those down so that people can have some respite.

This is one of those projects we didn’t need. We’re taking mitigating actions to make sure that they weren’t there. Let’s not forget again: from 29 down to nine turbines by the Environmental Review Tribunal. Why would we ever proceed when they actually said they weren’t needed?

Infrastructure funding

Mr. Amarjot Sandhu: My question is to the Premier. Premier, when our government was elected, we inherited an infrastructure system that was badly in need of repair. We had crumbling hospitals that were leading to hallway health care. We had a transit system that was forgotten and left in disrepair for years, leading to overcrowding and lacking in service.

Premier, I understand that both yourself and the Minister of Infrastructure just delivered keynote addresses at the C2P3 conference to over 300 major industry representatives highlighting our commitment to infrastructure for the province. Can you elaborate to the Legislature what our government’s plan is to expand and modernize the infrastructure systems for the province?

Hon. Doug Ford: I’d like to thank my all-star—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Order.

The Premier had the floor.

Hon. Doug Ford: I’d like to thank my all-star member from Brampton West—great people out in Brampton. There are going to be two more seats in Brampton next time around, Mr. Speaker; I just want to give you a heads-up on that one.

People know all too well that infrastructure was neglected under the previous government. On top of hospitals, on top of schools, on top of roads and bridges and highways, they didn’t think about building subways. That is why our government is taking the right actions at the right time to help move this province forward. We’re putting a historic investment into infrastructure. We’re putting in $144 billion over the next 10 years: $90 billion is going into transit; the balance is going into building new schools that the previous government cancelled—600 schools. We’re going to be investing in hospitals and making sure this province thrives, grows and prospers.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Supplementary question.

Mr. Amarjot Sandhu: Back to the Premier: Premier, that is incredible news for the people of Brampton West and speaks to our commitment to rebuild the province. I know many families in my region are very excited to hear about all those new investments, whether they are transit-related and will cut down on gridlock or the great investments in new hospitals, schools and other community projects that everyone depends on.

But this can only be made possible by the hard-working people of this province who build the projects themselves. I know in my riding of Brampton West we have many amazing individuals who help support this industry. Premier, can you speak more about our support for the infrastructure construction workers of this province?

Hon. Doug Ford: Through you, Mr. Speaker, I want to thank our great member once again for the question. All you have to do, Mr. Speaker, is walk by a construction site. The support is overwhelming. I call it the “hard helmets.” They’re out there cheering, “Keep going, keep going.” I had an opportunity actually to go LIUNA. I had a standing ovation on the way in and a standing ovation on the way out. They know there’s a government that finally recognizes the hard work of the construction trades right across this province.

We’re going to continue throwing money into the trades and make sure we have proper training there. But just keep in mind every time you drive on a road, drive on a highway, go take your kids to school or go to the hospital or go to a mall—think of the hard-working construction men and women who are out there doing an incredible job rebuilding this province. And guess what, Mr. Speaker? They’re going to have $144 billion to do that with.

Government accountability

Mr. Taras Natyshak: My question is to the Premier. Last week, the Globe and Mail reported that, in exchange for a $20,000 donation, the Premier dined with a developer looking to redevelop Canada Place. The next day, that developer tried to line up more meetings on the topic with the Premier’s staff.

Speaker, this is concerning for the thousands of Ontarians who can’t spare $20,000 to meet with the Premier, and it raises serious questions about who is meeting with the Premier and why. Will the Premier provide a full list to the public and to the Integrity Commissioner of every person who has paid money to meet with him?

Hon. Doug Ford: Mr. Speaker, I have to tell you, that’s probably one of the most disgusting comments I’ve ever heard down here in the House. What he doesn’t know is that it was at the Chief’s Gala and it was for victim services, for victims of crime. They came up to me last minute and said, “Do you want to auction off a dinner?” There was no lobbying. People don’t have to lobby Doug Ford. Mrs. Jones can call me about a pothole, and I’ll show up at her door.

By the way, I’m proud to say that we raised $100,000 for victims of crime. And guess what, Mr. Speaker? I did it again. I did it this week, and the whole crowd, 1,600 people, were applauding because I left it up to them. They appreciate raising money for victims of crime, unlike the NDP that don’t care about victims.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Order.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The member from Northumberland–Peterborough South, come to order.

Supplementary question?

Mr. Taras Natyshak: What’s truly disgusting is that victims of crime and victim services have to publicly fundraise because the Ford government has cut their budget and cut those services to the victims of crime. That’s what’s disgusting in this province. Shame on the Premier.

For a Premier who says he can’t be bought, he sure seems to make time for those with deep pockets. One of those businesses that the Premier dined with is a lobbying group that is looking for more contracts with the government. Their registered lobbyist firm was run by none other than the Premier’s number one insider, Chris Froggatt. This is the kind of thing that was commonplace under the Liberals, but as with other files, the Premier has taken the cash-for-access racket from bad to worse.

Speaker, why does it seem that the Premier only takes meetings with his preferred lobbyists and those with the cash to buy access, rather than Ontarians who are simply trying to get ahead?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Members please take their seats.

The Premier to reply.

Hon. Doug Ford: Through you, Mr. Speaker, I just want to remind the member from Essex that the police chief was there in the meeting. There was no lobbying, no nothing. I’m trying to help victims of crime. That’s what I’m trying to do.

There’s one thing, Mr. Speaker. They may agree or disagree with me, but every single person in this province knows two things: Doug Ford can’t be bought; and if someone calls Doug Ford to get something fixed, I’ll show up at their door and I’ll return their phone call, unlike the NDP that destroyed this province for the last 15 years.

Services for persons with disabilities

Mr. John Fraser: My question is for the Premier. Last week, we learned that the government is offering a contract to a consulting firm of up to $1 million to find half a billion dollars in savings in the Ministry of Children, Community and Social Services, most of which, we’ve learned, will come from developmental services.

Speaker, “savings” is a euphemism for “cuts.” These will be cuts to the most vulnerable people and families in our province: families living with an adult child with a developmental disability. This government is headed down the same path that they were with the Ontario Autism Program.

Through you, Speaker, to the Premier: Will he release the details of this contract, and will he commit to not cutting funds for adults with developmental disabilities in this province? Yes or no?

Hon. Doug Ford: Minister of Community and Social Services.

Hon. Todd Smith: Thanks to the member opposite for the question. As the member knows, there is a growing demand for developmental services across the province of Ontario. Every day, kids are turning 18, and they require services in the developmental services sector. Our government is committed to improving this sector so that these individuals can get the kind of accommodation and the services that they require.

Since becoming the minister, I’ve been out there meeting with families, I’ve been out there meeting with our service providers in collaboration to ensure that we can work together to get better results for the growing demand on developmental services in our province.

Just a couple of weeks ago, I went to speak to the provincial network, the OASIS group, Community Living Toronto, Community Living Ontario, Christian Horizons, many of them, and we talked about the fact that we were getting an outside set of eyes to look at how we can make the system better and work with them, to ensure that we’re providing the services that they require in this sector.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The supplementary question.

Mr. John Fraser: I think people in this sector would have more confidence if the minister gave them their budgets before September.

I’ll take the criticism that we all share here, that we actually haven’t done enough in the last 30 years for these families. So, I invite the minister and the Premier to come to my riding, to Clifford Bowey school at graduation time and see the parents’ faces, their joy at their child graduating, and the fear that they know they will no longer have support post-21 for their child—and they know that they are on their own. It’s like stepping off a cliff. It’s a life of wait-lists and precarious programs.

Imagine being 75 years old and having a 40-year-old daughter and saying, “I don’t know who’s going to take care of my daughter when I die.” This is what these families live every day in this province, and it’s something that should keep us all awake at night.

So, I ask the Premier again, Speaker: Will he commit to not cutting funds for adults with developmental disabilities in this province? Yes or no?

Hon. Todd Smith: We know that this sector deserves better results for its clients. We know that while we’re investing $2.6 billion in this sector, we’re not getting the results that we should be getting. That’s why we’ve gone out and hired this second set of eyes to look at the sector. They’ve done a jurisdictional scan to look at best practices in other states, in other provinces and in other countries where they’re actually building the supports necessary, while at the same time the government, myself and my team are working with our partners in the sector to ensure that we’re getting the results that we want.

The previous government made decisions, and with all due respect, they made the decision not to invest in this sector. For 15 years, they made that decision. That’s their right, Mr. Speaker, to make that decision. We’re not making that decision. We are making a decision to work with the sector, to ensure that we’re getting better results for those—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you very much.

The next question.

Health care funding

Ms. Christine Hogarth: My question is for the Minister of Health. Hallway health care is an issue that affects every Ontarian. Due to the previous Liberal government’s mismanagement and poorly directed spending, more and more patients are experiencing hallway health care as pressures mount in our hospitals.

The people of Ontario shouldn’t have to worry about how long it will take for them to see a doctor or whether the service they need will be available to them. It is time that some changes happen in our province.

Can the Minister of Health please tell this House what funding our government has committed to in order to bring an end to hallway health care and reduce the pressures on our public health care system?

Hon. Christine Elliott: Thank you to the member from Etobicoke–Lakeshore for her question. It really is essential that we tackle the immediate challenge of hallway health care, while also looking at the long term to make sure that future generations don’t have to deal with the same problem.

This year our government has invested an additional $384 million in our hospital sector to address immediate challenges. Small and medium-sized hospitals also received an additional $68 million to make up for years of, frankly, being shortchanged by the previous government.

We’re also addressing hallway health care by investing $27 billion over the next 10 years to build new hospital infrastructure and increase the number of beds available.

Speaker, to be clear, our government is taking action to end hallway health care now, while protecting the sustainability of our public health care system into the future.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Supplementary question.

Ms. Christine Hogarth: Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the minister for all her hard work and for that answer. While the opposition continues to engage in fearmongering, we are focused on taking real action to modernize our public health care system and end hallway health care. It is clear we’ve taken on the responsibility of cleaning up the mess that the previous government left us in, and committing to funding where it is needed most.

Ending hallway health care is a complex issue that requires a multi-pronged approach to resolve. We are addressing the immediate problems with our health care system while at the same time considering the long-term needs of our population.

Can the minister update this House on other investments we are making to give Ontarians access to more timely care, and end hallway health care now and in the future?

Hon. Christine Elliott: The fact is, Speaker, the people of Ontario elected us to take immediate action to fix our public health care system, and that is exactly what we’re doing. To help alleviate the pressures on hospital emergency departments, our government has brought forward new models of care for 911 patients to ensure patients receive care in the most appropriate settings.

We’ve committed to investing an historic $3.8 billion over 10 years to build a comprehensive, connected and integrated mental health and addictions system so that every Ontarian can be truly supported on their journey towards mental wellness. This year alone, we’ve invested an additional $174 million in more on-the-ground mental health services to support people, families and caregivers in communities across Ontario.

Speaker, these are just some of the steps we are taking to ensure that patients receive more timely and appropriate care in their communities, while also helping to end hallway health care and reduce wait times.

Veterans

Mrs. Jennifer (Jennie) Stevens: This is to the Premier: Before we all returned to our ridings last week to honour our veterans in Remembrance Day ceremonies across the province, I asked the government why it does not allow veterans who served after the Korean War to access grants for emergency situations from Ontario’s Soldiers’ Aid Commission, which is an unfair exclusion that treats post-Korean War vets as second-class citizens.

The government refused to answer, so I will ask again: Will the government extend coverage of Ontario’s Soldiers’ Aid Commission to all veterans, yes or no?

Hon. Doug Ford: Minister of Children, Community and Social Services.

Hon. Todd Smith: Thanks again to the member opposite for the question. I did answer the question the week before Remembrance Day. I just want to say that we all were out at our cenotaphs last week and at our Legion dinners and meeting with our veterans and those who are currently in service. I just want to say on behalf of the government of Ontario that we appreciate their service and we appreciate their ongoing support for our country, the greatest country in the world in which to live.

As far as the Soldiers’ Aid Commission goes, Mr. Speaker, I can tell you that it was basically mothballed for 15 years under the previous government. This is a very, very important part of the Ministry of Children, Community and Social Services. We’re currently, right now, looking at how we can expand the mandate of the Soldiers’ Aid Commission. We’re working with our military family resource centres. We’re working with Seamless Canada to ensure we are providing, at the provincial level—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you.

The supplementary question?

Mrs. Jennifer (Jennie) Stevens: I hope those mothballs come off quick.

Ontario’s Soldiers’ Aid Commission helps veterans in emergency situations, like those facing the threat of homelessness. Last week, Global News brought us a tragic story of Phillip Kitchen, an Afghanistan veteran who returned home suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder and was left living in a tent with his young child. This is shameful, Speaker. It can be avoided if the provincial government stops treating some veterans as second class and turning them away from this important support funding. As a mother of an active member in the Canadian Forces, I can say there is nothing second class about the service these brave men and women have provided for our country.

Will the Premier tell this House how many veterans are turned away from Ontario’s Soldiers’ Aid Commission program?

Hon. Todd Smith: I reject the premise of the question from the member opposite. There is no government that has done more in its first 15 months for our veterans than this government has, Mr. Speaker. I can tick off the list of different accomplishments for those in our armed forces—keeping in mind that veterans’ services is a Canadian jurisdiction. But we are doing what we can at the provincial level to ensure that where there are cracks in the system, we’re filling those cracks.

We have a golden opportunity by taking the Soldiers’ Aid Commission—which, again, has sat idle for 15 years—and making sure it’s meeting the needs of our current military members. We’re doing that by working with Seamless Canada. We had Seamless Canada representatives here earlier this year, talking to members of the various caucuses who were here. We had a great turnout from the Tory caucus. I know there were a number of NDP members. I don’t believe the member opposite was at that meeting with Seamless Canada—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Take your seat.

Next question.

Education funding

Ms. Kathleen O. Wynne: My question is for the Minister of Education. This government has made a series of policy decisions and cuts that will put students at risk. One of the prime examples of that is the decision to make Ontario the only jurisdiction in North America to require four online courses to graduate high school, which will further reduce teachers in schools, and to undertake this in less than a year from now.

They made this decision without adequately consulting any experts in education. Research from the Public Policy Institute of California indicates that students are less likely to finish an online course and that online courses exacerbate existing achievement gaps.

In a survey of 6,000 students across Ontario by the Ontario Student Trustees’ Association—6,000 students from grades 8 to 12—95% opposed the new e-learning mandate. I ask the minister: Will you listen to students across Ontario and reverse this reckless decision that will have complex, unknown and negative impacts on many students?

Hon. Stephen Lecce: Speaker, I think it would be prudent to note that our plan, when it comes to online learning, is about making sure young people have access to more course selections, utilizing modern technology and a platform that is made in this country.

With great respect to the member opposite, it is flabbergasting to be asked a question in the context of education when, under her tenure as Premier, more schools were closed than under any Premier in the history of this province.

I think when you contrast that approach with our plan to expend over half a billion dollars each and every year to build new schools, to renew schools, to improve our curriculum, to give young people more optionality, more course selections so they can achieve their full potential in the context of the journey of learning—I want the members of this House to know that we will continue to support our students by giving them more courses and embracing technology as an opportunity in the modern workforce.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The supplementary question.

Ms. Kathleen O. Wynne: I think the students who were not able to get their options this year because of increased class sizes would take issue with what the minister has said.

Mr. Speaker, this is exactly the kind of badly-thought-through decision that has poisoned the relationship between this government and educators in every school in Ontario. That poisoned relationship is on full display right now: A government in the middle of negotiations fires its bargaining team and tries to distract from the lack of progress at the table by pretending that mediation is the answer.

The answer is for the government to admit that its cuts and wrong-headed policies, like mandatory online courses, were a mistake and to roll them back. Will the government take the next step and re-engage seriously with teachers in order to get an agreement at the bargaining table?

Hon. Stephen Lecce: Indeed, it is the focus of the government to get deals for students in this province. That’s why we asked the parties yesterday to consider mediation as a viable tool to proceed, in order to get them to stay at the table given the heightened levels of escalation across the board of all teacher unions.

What unites the member, in her capacity as a former Premier, the New Democrats when they were in power in the 1990s, Mike Harris and every Premier in between is the fact that every three years, we’re in the same position of parents having the frustration of not knowing if their children will be in class on Monday. We seek a resolution. We seek an enduring solution that will help keep kids in class through a deal that is good for the children of this province.

Land use planning / Aménagement du territoire

Mrs. Belinda C. Karahalios: My question is for the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. Ontario is facing a housing crisis. There’s no two ways about it. Under the previous Liberal government, people struggled to find homes they could afford, and not enough homes were being built to meet the needs of people in every part of our province. These challenges were compounded by unnecessary steps, duplication and barriers to creating the housing that Ontarians need. What is the government doing now to fix this problem, which was inherited from the previous government, and how are we providing relief to the people of Ontario to get new housing built?

L’hon. Steve Clark: Merci à la députée pour la question. Lors de la dernière séance, nous avons adopté le plan d’action « Plus d’habitations, plus de choix ». Notre plan va aider à lutter contre la crise du logement en favorisant la construction d’un plus grand nombre d’habitations dans la province.

The changes, Speaker, that we’re proposing, for example, to the Local Planning Appeal Tribunal would do a number of things. It would hear appeals and make the best decisions on important land use cases. It will also increase case management and mediation powers to avoid delays, and will appoint additional adjudicators to handle late file and processing and also manage both the current and future caseload. Finally, we’re going to put in place a far more autonomous and more accessible system.

There are many things we’re going to do to change the system, Speaker, and I look forward to the supplementary.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The supplementary question?

Mrs. Belinda C. Karahalios: Speaker, it’s no secret that the Local Planning Appeal Tribunal has experienced significant delays and a backlog of legacy cases that has impeded the construction of new homes in our province, impacting approximately 100,000 would-be housing units in Toronto alone.

What progress has the government made with respect to unclogging the backlog of cases that’s preventing new housing units from being built?

Hon. Steve Clark: To the Attorney General.

Hon. Doug Downey: As the minister mentioned, and following the passage of the Housing Supply Action Plan, in August we appointed Marie Hubbard, one of the most well-respected authorities on land use planning. She was appointed as the interim associate chair of the LPAT, the Local Planning Appeal Tribunal. We’ve also appointed eight new full-time members; we’ve appointed four new part-time members.

When we left this chamber in June, the tribunal had a backlog of 1,200 cases, some dating back to the 1990s. It was left to languish, and we picked it up. This is so important. I’m pleased to report that the tribunal has already, since June, closed nearly 20% of the legacy cases. Now we’re left with approximately 900 cases outstanding, and we’re just getting started, Mr. Speaker. The tribunal has no intention of slowing down. We plan to ramp up and have further reductions in the backlog by the end of the year.

Hydro rates

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: My question is to the Premier. Over the past few weeks, I’ve been contacted by constituents worried sick about their rising hydro bills.

Glynnis Hill is a senior in my riding of London–Fanshawe living on a fixed income. Despite receiving OESP, her rising hydro bills are hard for her to manage. Glynnis tells me that she has trouble staying up so late to do laundry when it’s the more affordable time. She also reads by candlelight and wears a coat inside her house to avoid using electricity. But her bills are still too high.

Glynnis is at the end of her rope with these high hydro bills. What more would this Premier have Glynnis do?

Hon. Christine Elliott: The Associate Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bill Walker: Thank you for the question. You’re right, it’s truly sad that all of us are suffering from the highest energy rates that this province has ever seen. Thank you, again, to the Liberals of 15 years—and let’s not forget that you supported most of their green energy contracts all along the way that caused these rates.

As soon as we got elected, Mr. Speaker, we cancelled 750 renewable energy contracts, saving the people of Ontario $790 million. We centralized conservation programs to protect the most vulnerable people in our province while saving up to $442 million for ratepayers. And we’ve expanded natural gas service to rural Ontario, saving the average residential customer between $800 and $2,500 a year.

Mr. Speaker, our government is working to lower the prices. We’re doing everything we can to clean up a mess of 15 years created by the Liberal government. We’ll continue to do that and we’ll continue to do whatever we can to bring the rates down for all people, including the person you’re speaking of.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The supplementary question?

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: Back to the Premier: This November, this government allowed hydro bills to go up, despite a promise to fix the hydro mess the Liberals got us into. Bills continue to increase, with no relief in sight, and certainly not the 12% decrease like this government promised. For seniors like Glynnis, this means more nights staying up to do laundry when the prices are the lowest, and more nights reading by candlelight.

It’s 2019, Speaker. Does the Premier realize that he is hurting people like Glynnis when he fails to deliver on a real hydro relief plan for Ontarians?

Hon. Bill Walker: Thank you for the question, and thank you, Glynnis, for bringing this to us.

Just think of what those rates would have been, had we not cancelled those 751 renewable contracts and taken action to stop more of the insanity of what the Liberals were doing with their ideology. Again, we cancelled 751 contracts, saving $790 million. We’ve passed Bill 87, the Fixing the Hydro Mess Act, so that we replaced the Liberal accounting scheme with a new, more transparent on-bill rebate—something the Auditor General wanted to happen so that the people of Ontario truly knew what the cost of electricity is—and hold the bills to the rate of inflation.

It is truly sad. We all stand here sad about the price of our energy today because of the mess created under 15 years of Liberal management, supported solely by the NDP for that whole tenure.

We will continue to try to do that. We’ll try everything we can to lower those rates and make sure that we have—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you. The next question.

Municipalities

Our government was elected on a promise to end the culture of waste and mismanagement, and bring back fiscal responsibility, transparency and accountability. I know that the minister as well as the President of the Treasury Board have been hard at work finding ways to ensure that every single taxpayer dollar is well invested and respected.

Since this year is drawing to a close, could the minister tell this House what steps his ministry has taken thus far to help municipalities like the region of Peel and others across Ontario to find savings and efficiencies?

L’hon. Steve Clark: Merci à la députée pour la question.

Speaker, at the AMO conference in August, our government heard loud and clear from the municipal sector that they understand the fiscal challenges that this government faced, and the fact that this also compromises what matters most.

That’s why our government responded. We introduced the Audit and Accountability Fund, a fund which would provide $7.35 million to the 39 largest municipalities to help them become more effective and more efficient.

You know what, Speaker? We had 100% support. All 39 signed on because they want to work with our government