Volum e 1 PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-SEVENTH GEN;ERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 1st. Session VERBATIM REPORT TUESDAY, DECEMBER 9, 1975 SPEAKER; THE HONOURAB.LE GERALD RYAN OTTENHEIMER Number 13

Tl1c Jlouse m~t CJt 3:0n p.m. Hr. Speaker i.n the ChRir. Tape 414 "RH - 1 ANSHF.RS TO QlTESTIONS F()R WHICH NOTICE HAS RF:F.N C:IVEN: !H~. ST'EI\Kf:R: Th~ hon. Ninister of Forestry and A!!riculture. }1R. ROUSSF.An: }'r. Speaker, the hon. member from Exploits posed a question vf'sterdav ahnut crop insurance as it relates tn hay and cabhap,e. The question of cahhap,P and carrots, l,y the way, which are also not considered right now under the Crop Insurance Pr.op,ramme, is now under consideration - cabbage and carrots.

The question of hav is a possibility, hut a suitable formula has not 11('Cn clevis eel as yet in resp~ct to crop insurance for hay. I might add for the informl'ltion of the hon. member and the House that there is no province in Canada wbich has yet found a suitable way to insure hay crops. So that is :1 rossihi H ty. It :is not undf'r consideration to the same extent that cabbage and carrots are. But these two, cabbage and carrots, are under consideration. Hay is not, at this point in time. >m. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Transportation and Communication. ]10~1 .. T. }\ORGAN: ~\r.

Speaker, in renlv to a question asked a few days ar,o bv the hon. member from Conception Bay South with rep,ards to what ;ur:isdiction my derartment has over utility companies earryin$!' out improve­ mpnts on their o'vn proiects, my department issues permits to utility companies Uh' tel epl1on~ companies, etc. anrl usually the companies are honoured to cRrrv nut imnrovements before thev leave the area, and to leave the area as they founcl the Are:t. Bnt sometimes this is not the case and we are compelled to carrv out the '"or1: of improving thP. area as it was in the hPp;inning nnd tn hi 11 th~ utility companies.

This is the normal rractiee i.n our ce1se. ORAl, OTJF.STTONS : ~r:. SPEI\~FR: The hon. mP.mher for Conception Bay South. ~.m. J. NOLA'!: Mr. Speaker, a question to the hen. Ninister of Municipal Affairs ancl T1ousinp,, one that I did not have an opportunity to ask yesterday, that is jn , reference to housinR starts in Net~founclland. Often times we hear that so mnny thousand houses or homes have been built. It is not always clear. Pe hear these figures from CM1TC ancl so on, ~nth feclera]]y and sometimes provincially, hut what Tam never 1081

December 9, 1975. Tape 434 RJ! - 2 clear on is are we talking about homes, single unit homes or are the figures we hear bandied about really including apartment units and so on? What I am after is how many homes are built in a year in Newfound­ land? For example, what is anticipated this year? }IR. Sl'UKER : The hQn. Ki»ist.er of Kunidpal Affairs. HON . B. PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, usually the figures that are bandied about in the press very often through CMHC of housing starts in a given year include all kinds of units, apartment units as well as single family, single detached family uni~s.

So there is not that breakdown but that hreakdown can be provided. It is not all that difficult to get a breAkdown of how many of t he starts relate specifically to single family homes, detached homes as ~rell as how many relate to apartment units. But usually t:le figures that are bandied about include all forms of housing units that come on stream in that year. 1082

December 9, 1975 Tape 435 IB-1 MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Conception Bay South (~r. Nolan). ~1J! .• NOLAN: A question for the '~inister of Transportation and CommuDications, "''r. Speaker, if I could ask, what is the latest situation since the new shift that he mentioned the other day has now gone into effect? I believe it started Sunday night. Is it working? Is it what he said it would be, and what changes if any are now necessary or are there any changes in fact necessary? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. ~inister of Transportation and Communications. MR. }10RGAN: Mr.

Speaker, the shift system came into effect midnight on Sunday night, and we are now working a two shift system with a shift from 12 midnight to 9:00A.M and from 12 noon to 9:00P.M. So far we have fortunately had no bad weather conditions to give it a good try but r think it will work out quite well. Also now we are in the process of hiring our third crew and by December 17 we will have a three shift system ~.rith three crews, and I feel it will provide a very adequate service. }"R. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Conception Bay South (¥r. Nolan). r~. NOLAN: A question to the ~inister of Labour, Mr. Speaker.

The question relates to the strike that has been going on now for about forty-two weeks, ~ think, at 0 1Learys. Is there anything new to report in any effort to be made by the department to help mediate this situation? HR. SPEAKER: The 'finister of Manpower and Industrial Relations. 'IP. }t!YNARn: ~·r. Speaker, since the strike at O'Learys started we have had a conciliation officer assigned to the case.

In the last two or three months, I believe a couple of months, the assistant Deputy Minister of Manpower and Industrial Relations has been in continuous contact with both the union and the company but up to this point in time there has been no break in the stand-off that has occurred there for some weeks now. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Concept:l .on Bay South (Mr. Nolan). MR. NOLAN: A question this time, Mr. Speaker, for the Minister of Justice. The question is does the minister or his officials have any plan~ to table before this session of the House on what might be

~ecember 9, 1975 Tape 435 clone in the immediate future . to help curb vandalism, not on] y i.n the City of St. Jo'ftn's but in many of the areas throughout the Province Hhere we nave heard so many complaints :In the last year or so? ~!!'. SPF..AKER: The 01on. }'inister of Justice. Ill-2 }'1', HIOO!AN: }1r. Speaker, that question, Sir, reminds me, you know, when are you r.oing to stop heating your wife. J am not sure I am going to. The situation 1 s this, that Newfoundland now has in excess of f>Oil, closer to 7(10, I think, police officers :l.n this Prov:l.nce, for a Province of 500,000.

I ~vould seriously doubt if there is any prov:lnce :l.n C;mada lv:l.th as many pollee on a per cap:l.ta bas:l.s. In the city of St. John's this year following the signing of the new agreement 1dth the Newfoundland ronstabulary Brotherhood, we have implemented a booster system. The reports that I am receiving from the Chief of Police indicate that it :Is working very well. In the troubled areas where vandalism was sho~linp: an increase, it has he en arrested.

In the rest of the Province, whilst regre1Iahly we have and we will ab·ays have acts of senseless vandalism - and people should not put vandalism into the category of cr:!me. The motive is l'lissinF: and the reward is missing. Vandal:l.sm as I understand it is simply wanton ci5struction of property that tvoulcl provide no gain to the person committing the act. The reports that I hRve been receivinr, from municipal:l.ties indicate a very h:l.gh clep,ree of satisfaction 1vith the performance of the TlC~!J', an exceptiona1l y high degree of satisfaction.

And whilst, as I say, th~re wi~l be pockets of vandalisl'l reported from time to t:lme, lvhenever that occurs it is brought to the attention of the commanding offic.er of the Royal ranadian !lounted Police in Newfoundlanrl and their reaction is swift, effective but equitable. ~·'1'. SPEAKE1': The han. member for Conception Bay South (~r. Nolan) • "ll..' NOLAN: Another question for the Minister of Justice, ¥.r. Speaker. There has been much in the news recently about the latest efforts of the Pr.J·!J' to curb drinkinr: or impaired driving in our Province.

Are there any p] ans on behalf of the Justi .ce nepartment to 1084

necemher 9, 1975 Tape 435 IB-3 inaugurate such a system for drivers proceedinr, from clubs, bars nnd so on in the City of St. John's? .r,. ,. 1085

December 9, 1975 Tape no. 436 Page 1 - mw MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Justice. MR. HICKMAN: Mr. Speaker, firstly, may I thank the hon. gentlemen from Conception Bay South (Mr. Nolan) for voicing what is the unanimous approbation aimost of the people of Newfoundland to the efforts of the RCMP throughout the Province in very effectively curbing drunken driving on the highways of Newfoundland. In the city o~ St. John's, the Newfoundland Constabulary, whose records of arrests is not that bad either insofar as impaired driving is concerned, are looking at some programmes to step up their surveillance.

And I am anre that their surveillance will be very much increased during the time of the year when the risk of finding impaired drivers on the highway seems to be at a peak, the festive season. And maybe motorists will take note that there is nothing wrong with spending $1. or $2 on a taxi to get a lift home. MR. SPEAKER : The hon. member for Exploits. MR. MULROONEY: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture.

At the time 6f the Crop Insurance Plan that was introduced into Newfoundland, other provinces such as Nova Scotia did introduce a programme very similar to the one in Newfoundland. I was wondering if the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture had done any comparison , where Nova Scotia has a Hay Crop Insurance Programme, and whether or not that one in Nova Scotia has been effective? MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. MR.ROUSSEAU: Did the hon. member say the Nova Scotia hay crop? MR. MULROONEY: Yes. MR. ROUSSEAU: The information I have, Mr.

Speaker, from the officials in the department is that no province in Canada has a hay crop insurance plan. That is the information I have. The provinces are looking towards that, but there is no way in which they can find one that is suitable for hay in any province in Canada, from the information I was given. It is a possibility. I presume that all provinces are ·looking at that possibility, but no programme has yet been devised whereby hay would fit under the designation of crop insurance.

December 9, 1975 Tape no. 436 Page 2 - mw MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for Exploits. MR. MULROONEY: I thank the han. minister, Mr. Speaker, for his answer. Mr. Speaker, another question to the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. Were the farmers in the Central Newfoundland area consulted before the purchasing of $200,000 worth of farm machinery used as a bank for the farming industry in that area? Were they consulted before the purchase of this equipment due to the fact that much of it is too large for the equipment used on these sized farms? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. MR.

ROUSSEAU: I have to take that question as notice. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Exploits. MR. MULROONEY: Mr. Speaker, another question to the Minister of Forestry and Agrtculture. Does the department have any plans for establishing 1.n the Central Newfoundland area a slaughter house similar to the one established at Comfort Cove that will comply with the Department of Health regulations for the slaughtering of animals used for sale? ~R. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. MR. ROUSSEAU: Not at this point in time, Mr. Speaker, but it is always a possibility, of course.

The enlargement of our agricultural based industry in the Province does not preclude it 1 but at this point in time, no. We are trying to get the one in Corner Brook off the ground, and we are trying to get the other ones we have off the ground, and when we consolidate those it is quite possible that other areas will be considered. And at this point in time, no specific area has been desi~nated. There will be wide consideration depending on what is in the area. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. member for Eagle River. "'R.

STRACHAN: A question for the Acting Minister of Recreation: Hov many parttcipants will this Province be sending to the Arctic Games at Shefferville? And if you know the figure, how does'this compare to the number heing sent from other provinces? 1087

De c embe~ 9 , 1 975 Tape no . 436 Page J- mw MR. SPEAKER: The bon. Minister without Portfolio. MR. WELLS; Mr. Speaker, ! will have to take that question as notice, and find out the answer. How many people we~re sending to the Arctic Games and what comparison in ~ati.o of population. Is that what you are thinking? MR. STRACHAN: I was asking for the number compared to the number being sent from each of the other provinces. MR.·. WELLS: Yes, I can find out lhat information. MR. SPEAKER: The hem. member for Conception Bay South. MR.

NOLAN : A question to the - I am not sure if this is for the Minister of Transportation and 09mmunications or the Minister of J:'orestry and Agriculture, but to the responsible minister and hopefully ·maybe we can get an e.nswer to this, that is in relation to •bowmobiles and so on. I believe I heard today that some report may be coming forward from the responsible minister. AN RON. MEMBER: The Minister of TouriSI!l. MR. NOLAN: !ton. Minister of Tourism, I am sorry. I am wondering if some provision will be made for the utilization of such vehicles, one, on private property and also, Mr.

Speaker, the second part of the question, will there anything that we can look forward to to restrict, say, a seven or eight year old child from driving a thirty horsepower machine,as you know is happening in thts Province at the moment? ·108·8

necember 9, 1975 Tape No. 437 N~- 1 JIIR. SPEAKER: The bon. Minister of Tourism. Mrn. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, the regulations will be tabled hopefully within a matter of a week, possibly less than that. They will be tablec in the form of a white paper and an opportunity will be provided ' to interested parties and the public F.enerally to provide •·,hatever input is necessary to make changes. I can tell the hon. member that there are certain provisoes in the draft regulations already to cover the items of interst that he has menttorted.

I am not quite sure, I would have to check them, if it is covered as accurately as he would like them. MR. NOLAN: I thank the bon. minister and while I stand, Mr. Speaker, I would like also to thank als~ the ~inister of Justice for his answer to a question, the last one I addressed to him. I wonder if I could ask a supplementary question to the Minister of Justice regarding the intention of the minister on the St. John's Constabulary, the Newfoundland Constabulary.

Can we get a yes or no answer as to whether or not the Newfoundland Constabulary will carry out a similar programme such as the RCm' are carrying out right now in their efforts to curb drunken driving here in this Province? Yes or no? Mrn. SPF.AKER: The hon. Minister of Justice. JIIR. HICK~AN: It is not going to be yes and it is not going to be no. I do not knm·Y.

I thought the bon. gentleman understood very clearly and definitively what I said. ~1at I tried to say definitively is that the Chief of Police of the Newfoundland Constabulary is seeing whether it is possible to implement that programme within the city limits. Tau are getting into the field now, a technical field, but I am not sure as to how these things operate ~.;rithin the crowded streets of an urban area. I know there has been some problem with another form of surveillance instrument that can he used on the highways and has been tried within the city limits and is not effective. }ffi.

SPF.AKER: The hon. member for Conception Bay South. MR. NOLAN: A question for the Minister of Justice. Mr. Speaker. is it a fact or is it untrue that members of the Constabulary in St. John's are judged in any wav, Mr. Speaker, by the number of tickets that they 108.9

December 9, 1975 Tape No. 437 NM- 2 MR. NOLAN: issue on a given day or in a given week while they are on duty? MR. SPEAKER: The bon. Minister of Justice. MR. HIC~AN: Totally, absolutely untrue, and any suggestion is totally and absolutely and unpardonably irresponsible. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. member for Exploits. MR. MULROONEY: A question for the Minister of Health, Mr. Speaker.

Could the ~inister of Health state whether or not that a report or a study that was started in 1973 had the following recommendations; one,that the Grand Falls Hospital be extended;and number two,that the Botwood Cottage Hospital be phased out by the year 1978. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Health. MR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. if the bon. member had been in this House four 1 five or six years ago when the past administration indicated that they might be closing the Botwood Hospital, I think he would have heard my position on it then and my position has not changed. MR.

SPEAKER: The bon. member for Conception Bay South. MR. NOLAN: A question to the Minister of Health: What is his position, Mr. Speaker, what is the position at the moment? MR. COLLINS: The same as it was then. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Trinity-Bay de Verde. MR. ROWE: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Education, Sir.

In view of the fact that an official of a school board has stated that fire insurance premiums pose a heavy financial burden on school boards, could the minister bring the House up to date as to the progress reports,so to speak,on the work of the adviser on insurance for schools in this department at the present timel MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Education. MR. HOUSE: As I stated before in the House, there is a Committee,set up previous to this election, under the Minister of Education, to discuss the needs of school boards and of course the insurance was related to that.

Of course since the insurance has gone so high, I think it is tripled in a lot of cases in the outlying districts of the Province, there 1Q90

necember 9, 1975 Tape No. 437 NM- 3 MR. HOUSE: was a meeting last week with the Denominational Education Committees and officials from the Department of Education and I will be receiving a report from that Committee shortly. In the meantime also 1091

December 9, 1975. Tape 438 RH - 1 you heard from the }linister of Finance that there will be an insurance adjustor made available to school boards to help them in that matter. mt. SPEAKER: The han. member for Trinity-Bay de Verde. HR. ROHE: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker: Could the minister indicate whether or not the fire insurance premiums in this Province at the present time for covering schools exceed the loss, you know, the average loss for schools by fire? That is the~premiums, the fire insurance premiums, do they not exceed the actual loss hy fire now on a yearly basis?

If so, would the minister indicate - a two part question if I may, Mr. Speaker - would the minister indicate as to whether or not his department is givinB any consideration to not insuring schools at all, similar to the University and public buildings in the Province? HR. SPEAKER: The han. l!inister of Education. RON. W. HOUSE: Well, first of all to the last

part 1 the schools are not owned by government. They are owned by the school boards and by legislation from the department they have to carry insurance. That is the first thing. The cost of insuring schools in Newfoundland, I think the figure that ,.,e received just recently would run close to $2.5 million. l!R. ROh'l': That is not total coverage though, is it? 'iTt. HOITSE: In total coverage, it is $2.5 million. That is the premiums. Premiums would cost t:'lat much. The loss by fire does not exceed that or has not in the rast number of years. But there has been heavy losses. ~ ffi.

ROWE: Is this a tripled figure? l fR. !lOUSE: Pardon? ~fR. RO\o.Tf.: I am sorry to interject, Mr. Speaker, but just for a point of clarification, if there is such a thing: Is that the tripled figure, the $2.5 million or is that the original? Mn.. !lOUSE: Yes, that is the tripled figure. ~m. ll.OHE: Thank you. '!R. SPE.AKf.R: The hon. member for Twillingate. '111 • .J. SMALL HOOD: Mr. Speaker, ,.,ould the minister tell me why it is 10~.2

necemher 9, 1975. Tape 438 RH - 2 that he can give the answer he just gave so promptly and so readily in response to an oral question of which he had been given no notice and he has not given me the same answer to a question of lmich I gave notice more than three weeks ago? ~m. SPEAKER : Order, please: MR. St-'J\LU700Tl: That is a good question, Mr. Speaker, I think. \•'hy am I not getting an answer to my written question of which I gave notice and which appeared on the Order Paper approximately three weeks ago, though tlte saJ!le minister is able to give that answer promptly without any notice at all? HR.

HOUSE: ~~r. Speaker, on that Order Paper there was something in the order of rnn questions on education and I am getting them done l~th the staff at the department so that I can lay them on the table all at one time. MR.. SMALLWOOD: I thank the hon. minister and I hope he can. We have asked something of the order of 6'10 questions on the Order Paper 1 fair, giving notice, they are in print and we have had answers to five or six so far, six or seven. MR. ROUSSEAU: You have got about 600 civil servants working on them, let me tell you. HR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Conception Bay South .1 HR. NOLAN Hr.

SJleaker, a question for the Minister of Hines and Energy. Two or three days ago in the House following his return from London the minister said that he could not at that time give a report on his meetings which were in connection with, I believe, ECGD and the Newfoundland Refinery. Is he nm~ prepared to give us some information on the ptnrpose of that trip and if not when would such information be forthcoming? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. Minister of Mines and Energy> RON. J. CROSBIF: Hr.

Speaker, I mean the purpose of the trip was to meet with the various parties involved in the present situation at the oil refinery and the possible granting of a third mortgage to certain of the major creditors of the oil refinery. I cannot give any more infor­ mation at the moment because these negotiations are still ongoing. 10"93

necembe~ o, 1975 . Tape 43R RH - 3 Rut as soon as it is in the public interest and as soon as i t is proper for us t o do so we would certainly explain to the Rouse and to the public exactly what conclusion has come. But it would be very deleteri ous to the discussions th at are going on to have any public discussion of it . But as soon as we can, Hr . Speaker, when we know that it has come to a firm conclusion we will inform the !louse . !1R • SPI' AKF.R : The hon. member for Conception Bay South . 1094.

Pece~ber 9, 1975 Tape 439 IB-1 ''ll. NOLAN: I have a question for the same minister, if I may. 1~1at is the latest position rep;arding the efforts by Hr. Shaheen for a third mill :l.n Newfound] and? loloulc1 the minister be good enough to tell us what is the latest rliscussions or correspondence he might have had H:lth that company or that gentleman concerning this matter? ~ 1' • SPEAKER: The hon. ¥inister of 1'ines and Energy. ~W. CROSBIE: The third mill is as dead as the proverbial dodo ~d it has been, you know, for a Dumber of years.

The ~inister of Industrial nevelopment,who is not here today-who is now Minister of Finance-had the last kind of information on the subject and that was at least a year or two years ago. It showed it was entirely impractical. The assistance that they sug~ested from the Province was completely beyond the bounds of all reasonability with respect to guarantees, feasibility and so on. So, I think it is just as "~>'ell to put on the record, ~r. S{leaker, that the third mill is no more.. The third mill is at Stephenv:flJ e.

The fourth mill :l.s no more. llut, if anythinr. new happens certainly the Minister of Industrial nevelopment woulrl tell us. But, you ~now, we can safely assume that th>tt :l.s ~one, the possibility of it is gone. '~. SPEAKER: The hon. memher for Exploits. (Mr. }'ulrooney) ~'P. ~'UL POONEY : "r. Speaker, a supplementary to the question I askec1 the }'inister of Health.

Since I was not i.n the House flve years ap,o, since the recommendations for the phasing out of the Botwood Hospital statec:l,number one, that the Grand Falls hospital be first expandec and that the extension for the Grand Falls hospital has now been deferred, wilJ. the Botwood cottage hospital still cont:l .nue to be phased out by 1978? "1'. SPEAKE!!: The hon. l'inister of Health. }'If-.. COLLINS: }'r. Speaker, it :1 s very difficult to say what might or might not happen hy 197R.

But, as I indicated to the hon. member before - and I a!'\ sure that if he checked "lo'Hh all of my supporters in the district of Exploits he would have kno~~ what my position was 1095

December 9, 1975 Tape 439 IB-2 four or five years ap.o, wheD there was a move made by government at the tjMe to close the Botwood hospital. I might say for the information of the hon. member that perhaps one of the keys to the continued operation of the Botwood hospital is nr. Thomey's remaining on there as the chief medical officer. I would hope that Dr. Thomey will continue to occupy that position for a good number of years. As long as he does I can see the Botwoo~ hospital continuing for a considerable period of time. ~~. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Conception Bay South. (~r. Nolan) 'lR. NOJ.AN: Mr.

Speaker, a question to the l>'inister responsible for ?ecreation. T-lould he be good enough to provide us either now or at h1s convenience with a list of recreational projects that were announced prior to Septemher 16 which may have been cancelled or deferred since that time? ~·Ill . SPEAKEP: The hon. Minister without Portfolio. !.fll. HELLS: I cannot rhyme them off,as it were, Yr. Speaker, but all capital projects are being deferred for the balance of this financial year. Then the whole thing will be looked at in the l1 ght of the ~oming financial year.

But certainly I think it is fair to say, l ~xpect, that most of them will be deferred,- practically all of them. f1nlv something that v10uld be absolutely of extreme urgency will go ahead in the way of capital works. ~.fll. SPEAKEP: The hon. member for Lewisporte (Mr. ~~ite). ~~. h'HITE: "r. Speaker, is the minister in a pos1 tion to answer my question now with respect to the golf course for Gander? I asked him last Heek. ~'F. HELLS: I have the answer being prepared down in the department. As far as I know, nolit is not going ahead during this financial year. AN HON.

ME~ER: Never was, was it? }!]? • T~LLS: I do not think it was. AN RON. ~'E}'BER: Hho ever agreed to this? ~!p. HELLS: I do not know. 1'1'. HICK}!AN: ~ha~J1e Granger. l'R. IVELLS: Certainly there j s nothing going ahead now out there with 1096

necember q, 1975 Tape 439 IB-3 rep.~r~ to a ~olf c~Qrse. ~'1'. SPI'.AJ<Eil: The bon. mel'lher for Conception Bay South (~tt.'. Nol An) • ~~. NOLAN: r ju~t want to follow this up if I may. With great respect, ~lr . mini stet.', was there a commitment - I am not going to hE' facetious on this - was there a co111111itment for a golf course and if so, by whom and when. ran we not get this thing cleat.'ed away once and for all? _HJ'. 14ELLS: I certainly will rlo this when the information comes up. 1 do not know from this side who p.ave such a commitment.

There has been tal~ hack over the ye~rs about a golf course for Gander but I have no knowledge of this government giving any commitment durin~ this current financial year of a golf cout.'se . As I say t will have com!'lete documentation by tomorrow for the member. But I ~o not think sn. ~ . SPEAKtll: The bon. member for Lewispot.'te (Mr. 't;.'bite) • 1097

December 9 , 1975 Tape 440 PK - 1 Two weeks ago, Mr. Speaker, just for the information for the hon. minister, it was on the news .that,it was announced that it was going ahead . Two weeks ago! MR. __ ~~EAKER: Order, please! The hon. gentleman may ask a question and seek information but he may not give it. The hon. member for Conception Bay South. MR. J. NOLAN: ------- Mr. Speaker, a question to the Minister of Provincial Affairs who would be responsible since Consumer Affairs is a division within his department. In two parts, if I may, Mr. Speaker;

(1) Has the minister received many complaints or any in fact concerning the fact that there has been a suggestion that certain supermarkets even though they announced a freeze on prices for sixty or ninety days, whatever it was, have you had complaints from citizens saying that the· price markers that they have in the supermarkets, in fact either the night before were stamping the goods and marking them up or have marked them up since, and if he has,what action, if any, has he taken or tried to take in that connection, Mr. Speaker? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Provincial Affairs and the Environment. RON. A.

J. MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, if I may in answer to the question I have not received any representations as such as the hon . member suggested. If he has any knowledge I will be only too happy to take it into account. Of course we always get complaints from consumers with reference to prices in supermarkets and this type, but basically not to that extent, although there were rumours that some of these people were back and had received some overtime previous to the freeze. But I could not establish the fact because we had no direct representation.

And with reference to this type of question, Sir, I would like to ask that consumer affairs is a very vital matter at this time, and any member in the House who has any knowledge rather than try to embarrass the minister and place him on the spot, come directly - SOME RON. MEMBERS: --- ---- -- Oh, oh! 1098

December 9, 1975 Tape 440 PK - 2 - would you be quiet please until I answer - come to the minister directly with any complaints and we have a department set up to deal with that. That is the place to bring complaints. ~~. _N.Q_LAN: on a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Surely that question was not aimed to embarrass the minister. This very item that I have, -mentioned has been mentioned on radio broadcasts - MR. MURPHY: Yes. ---- - _!1R._NOLAN: - news reports and so on. MR. MURPHY: Well I am available at any tillle. MR. SPEAKER: Order, ~lease! MR.

MURPHY: My department is over there for questions. ~· SPEAKER~ I do not think that there is an actual point of order before the House, but a difference of opinion. This will be the last question. The bon. member for Trinity- Bay de Verde. MR. F. ROWE: In view of the fact that work was to begin on the new polytechnical institute and residence approximately one year ago, could the Minister of Education indicate to the House, Sir, what the status of the new polytechnical institute and the new residence is at the present time? ~~Jl!'_~ER: The hon. Minister of Education. MR. W.

HOUSE : The planning is continuing on both. The conceptional plan for the polytechnical institute has been completed, and a firm has been en~aged to go ahead to draw up the preliminary plans, and these are expected to be received by the end of April. With regard to the residences I do not have the information, I will take it as notice. ~·_:F- ROWE: It is a far cry from the promises made - ORDERS OF THE DAY Order 3, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order 3 - Committee of Ways and Means. As I recall thP- debate was adjourned by the hon. member for Baie Verte-White Bay. 1099

December 9, 1975 Tape 440 PK - 3 MR. T. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, SOM!._'!Q_~ .!!E!'!:'I~RS: Hear, hear! - first of all, Sir, allow me to congratulate you for your election to the Chair of this House, and also from a personal point of view to compliment you for the way you have been handling that position since you achieved it. I also wish to cgngratultte the Deputy Speaker and Chairman'of Committees, the bon. member for St. John's South (Dr. Collins) and the Deputy Chairman of Committees the member for Bonavista North (Mr. Cross). I am delighted, Sir, to be here representing the people of Baie Verte-White Bay.

It is indeed a pleasure to be a member of this bon. House, although some of that pleasure has been snuffed out by the document that we are debating again today and have been debating for the past number of days. Being a new member, Mr. Speaker, I have been told many times that I would learn a great many things very quickly once the House of Assembly was in session. I look forward to that, Sir. I look forward to the challenge of taking

part in the governing of our Province. I as well as other bon. members,! am sure, came to this Rouse of Assembly with great expectations. We had no reason to believe that we would be confronted with an economic and financial mess. All of us here, Sir, went through an election campaign just a little more than two months ago. Throughout the duration of that campaign there was not the least hint that this Province was in financial difficultv. On the cont•ary,we were led to believe that everything waR rosy, that the Province was in good financial condition. Raving ~eard the election platform, Sir, of the present administration one could only conclude that we were in great shape, that we had 1100

December 9, 1975 Tape no. 441 Page 1 - mw !!~ideo'!!_ •. no worries, that everything was under control 1 and, Sir, that wouid have to be your conclusion, because this present administration were the government. They knew the facts and the figures. As the government they were informed daily, Sir, as to our financial condition, our future prospects, what our economic outlooks were.

And, of course, to add extra weight to that rosy picture painted by the administration during the campagin, there was the $1 billion budget of last Spring, Newfoundland's first $1 billion budget containing millions of dollars of expenditures, and no tax increases. It was a rosy picture indeed, Sir. The people of this Province could very well be eXpected to be reasonably satisfied with such a performance by the government of our Province. But little did the people know that they were pawns, and that the situation as portrayed by the government was not exactly such.

Little did they know that the government was painting a rosy picture because an election was coming up. Little did they know that underneath the rosy glow of the election campaign lay an economic and financial mess unprecedented in the history of this Province. Little did the people realize that promises of paved roads,new arts and culture centres, new hospitals and so on 'muld, within a couple of months, Sir, be replaced with crles of belt tightening, entrenchment and tax increases. The point is this.

This administration knew that this Province was about to face severe economic and financial difficulties, They had to know it. Yet they did not level with the people. What do you call · that, Sir? I know what it is called in everyday language. I know what the people of this Province call it, and I know, and I am sure every member of this House is aware,of how the people feel about it. Putting it bluntly this administration has lost a great deal of confidence that was entrusted to them on September 16.

Now I know, Sir, that there are those who are already saying, there they go again, the same old negative bunch disagreeing with the government 1 everything the government does, eating the flesh off the government again. But, Sir, what are we to do? Are 1101

December 9, 1975 Mr. Rideout. Tape no. 441 Page 2 - mw we expected to say, look, we know you did not level with the people and then turn around and slap the administration on the back and forget all about it ? The people are not forgetting, Sir, and they are lookin~ to us not to forget also, This government has to be taken to task for the manner in which they inflated the expectations of the people of this Province when they knew full well that it would be impossible to deliver.

That is part of our role, Sir, as the official Opposition, and if we are negative it ~s because of circumstances beyond our making, circumstances created by the government itself. On the other hand, Sir, while we shall continue to criticize the government for its failings, we realize that action must be taken to restore economic and financial stability to this Province. I listened to the hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing talk about some a couple of days ago, and I compliment him for it. The government says · the way to do it though, Sir, is to concentrate on resource development.

Yet according to the Fall budget, spending in the resource departments has been reduced from the original forecast. It is obvious that there must be some government restraint, Sir, but does that mean tha.t hospital construction and reconstruction must be slashed to the bone7 Does it mean that essential services must be cut back? Because, Sir, I do not feel that Newfoundland has contributed greatly to the overall problem of inflation in this country. Therefore we should not suffer too much by any action that must be taken to cure it.

Our contribution to the boom years, Sir, has been simply this: We have been attempting to raise our standards of living in twenty-five short years to a level that took other parts of Canada more than a century to achieve. Now, Sir, that is not a crime, that is necessity, that was part of our right as Canadians. Therefore I do not think we should be made to stand stagnant now. We are still behind, and we must contine to forge ahead. Now, Sir, speaking more directly to the amendment, it is little wonder that this Province has lost confidence in this government. 1102

December 9, 1975 :!1r ._Rideout. Tape no. 441 Page 3- mw As I pointed o.ut in the begino.ing, tt i.s only a little more t-~ two: months ago that the same people Who are now saying we i!IW!t restrain, we must cut expenditures • were fllling the people of this Province with dollar signs. I do not know what happell.ed iii other districts, and il'pealdng on the amendment, I wtll use lilY own as an example. We were not told we were heading for f~cial difficulties, Str. ~or about two weeks in Septembe:t,oli the other ~d, every road in my district was gifted with gr;Nel t-rucks, and that was great stuff. 110~

December 9, 1975, Tape 442, ~age l -- apb MR . RinF:OUT : stuff, it was a great way to get things done. Rut the point, Sir, is that there was no shortage of money then. To look at the future programmes that this administration nut forward for the district of Raie Verte-White Bay, Sir, would certainly not indicate that we were heading for any financial difficulty. Construction of a road to Harbour Deen, all thirty-five miles of it, great stuff and T hope it goes ahead because the people of Harbour Deep are looking forward to it.

Construction of a stadium in LaScie and Roddickton, Again ~reat stuff, Sir, but it took five vears to get an ice plant in the stadium in Raie Verte and in two weeks we were promised two more. Construction of provincial parks for l.aScie, Seal Cove, Fleur­ d!•-Lvs and Coachman's Cove; M1micipal pavin!!: for LaScie and Fleur-de-l.vs :md F.nglee <~nd to add to that, Sf.r, t.aScie had municipal paving for the nas t six vears.

Reconstruction of the following roads; Middle Arm, Smith's Harbour, ~urbeck's Cove, Wall Cove, Seal Cove, Snook's Arm, Round Harbour - nothing about not enoul!;h money available but construction and reconstruction everywhere you turn. Pavement of the following roads; Raie Verte to Fleur-de-Lys - great stuff! t wish it could go ahead. That is what I am complaining about. You cannot keep it. You cannot ~een up to it. The Seal Cove Road, the Roddickton-Englee-Ride Arm Road. Great stuff! But now the peonle have been let down. As I said, their expectations were inflated hevond anv degree of description.

Construction of a water and sewer system from Burlington to Middle Arm, fire trucl-sfor LaScie and another one for Fleur-de-Lys and another one for Burlington. Three is a little less than thrity-five miles anart. Secondary industries for Baie Verte with by-products of asbestos yet we have not really got a study going on down there yet to determine exactly whether that situation is a deadly one or not as some neople seem to believe it is. A half million dollar expansion to the M.J.Boylen Hospital in 1104

necember 9, 1975, Tape 442, Page 2 -- apb MR. RIDEOUT: Baie Verte. Construction - and this is a great one, Sir - construction of an emergency airstrip for Baie Verte. What was ever going to land on it and what the emergencies were I do not know. It is far from isolated. Wow, Sir, these are just some of the promises made in my district by this government. They are all facts.! have the brochure right here in from of me that was sent around at the time.

The auestion, Sir, does that programme I have just outlined, that was promised to the people of Baie Verte-White Bay by this government - the cuestion is, does that programme indicate that economically hard times were just around the corner? Does it suggest that we were heading for a call to belt tightening, for restraint, for retrenchment? I suggest, Sir, that it does not. I suggest that it paints a rosy picture, a picture that did not exist, that it showed the situation not as it was but as this government hoped it could be or would be.

Therefore, Sir, I support the amendment by my friend and colleague the member for Burgeo-Bay D'Espoir. It is a non-confidence motion, Sir, and I believe this government has lost the confidence of the people it represents because of its failures to level with the people a little more than two months ago, and indeed, because the government at that time actually inflated beyond reason the expections of the people of this Province, for one reason, Sir, that of political gain. Thank you. MR. SPF.AKER: The bon. the member for Mount Scio. DR. R. WINSOR: Mr. Speaker and members of the bon .

House of Assembly, first of all I would like to offer my congratulations to you, Sir, on your appointment. I know that you will carry out your onerous duties with dignity and integrity. Also I would extend,my congratualtions to the bon. the member for St. John's South (Dr. J.Collins) on assuming the role of Deputy Sneaker. His integrity and ability will be much appreaciated by this House. It is indeed a great honour for me to represent the district of Mount Scio in this bon. Rouse. They have given me a mandate to speak for them in a sane and humane manner in the business of this House.

My 1ob has been made much easier by the calibre of men who make up the 1105

December 9 • 1975, Tape 4-42, P~e 3 -- apb DR. WINSOR: ~overnment at this time in our history. Newfoundland is indeed fortunate to have as Premier at this time a man ~th tremendous leadership ability ~nd drive. His administration has accomplished much in the past three and-a-half years. To many of us the most important change over the past administration has been the elimination of fear of a rarty machine, fear that stifled the democratic s:rovth of our people. Our people can now criticize ~o~ithout ridicule, condemn \lithout fear of recrimination .

People from all areas of our Newfotmdland society can now engage in politics with any party ~o~ithout the knowledge that their politicnl persuasion wil l not affect their .1obs or their income. Mr . Speaker, the direetion that this ROvernmnet has taken as outlined in the Budget Speech is the only one that it could have taken in the difficult situation that \le are now faced with due mainly to inflation, inflation which has affected adversely 1106

December 9, 1975 Tape 443 PK - 1 Dr. Win,.or: -·--- -- - -- - . which has affected pretty well every country in the free world. It is imperative that we deal with the causes of inflation and not with its symptoms alone. The responsibility for inflation must be shared by labour, management and government and each r.rou~ must be prepared to exercise self-discipline. Prices have risen as businessmen pass costs on to consumers. Labour. left behind by inflation and determined to catch up,has been doing so at a rate exceeding the combination of inflation and productivity. Mr.

Speaker, the bubble has burst and the time has arrived that we all have to realize that we can only take from our society in the proportion to the effort that we put into it. Government must by example and leadership get this message across to our people and on1y then is there hope for our country to achieve greatness. Mr. Speaker, I have practiced dentistry in St. John's for almost twenty years, and would like to make a few comments on the state of this profession.

Dalhousie University Faculty of Dentistry's responsibility, the Atlantic area 1contains approximately 2 million neople, of which 40 per cent are Nova Scotians, 30 per cent New Rrunswickers, 25 per cent Newfoundlanders and 5 per cent P~ince Edward Islanders . Other things been equal one could anticipate the enrollment in dentistry at Dalhousie to approximate these percentages. It is obvious from the figures over the past six years that Nova Scotia and New Rrunswick have approximated these figures, and Prince F.dl~ard I!!land ha!! had many times its share.

Six or seven students from Newfoundland is not an unreasonable number, Mr. Speaker, to expect to be admitted to the Dalhousie Dental School. For a number of years an effort was apparently made in student selection, but more recently the effort has appeared to be useless tokenism. Secondly, the per capita ratio of dentists in the four Atlantic Provinces is for Nova Scotia 1 to 3,500; New Brunswick 1 to 4,300, Prince Edward Island 1 to 3,000, but Newfoundland, Sir, is 1 for 7,700. Newfoundland's ratio is twice as poor as that of any of the 1107

l I J . December q, 1975 Tape 443 PK - 2 Dr. Hinsor : ------- oth~r three provinces. We have to place a minimum of ten students per year for ten years so that we could hope to approximate the ratio of the other provinces. Thirdly, the number of no-shows and quitters is alarmingly high, and should in the interest of all concerned be thoroughly investigated. Undoubtedly the causes are varied but I would submit that there is room for improvement in our recruitment programme and in the Dalhousie selection process. Only six Newfoundlanders are currently in dental school in Canada, four at McGill and two at Dalhousie.

For the past ~o years at Dalhousie no Newfoundlanders were accepted. This year we placed three and by the middle of September all three had quit. We must reach some agreement with Dalhousie in the near future to overcome this desperate situation. And I am not certain that the answer lies in having our own dental school at Memorial, but encouraging Dalhousie to expand its facilities and accepting at least ten of our students each year. My main reason for this is that we have a critical shortage of dentist specialists in Eastern Canada, and particularly Newfoundland.

We have one orthodontist and one oral surgeon to service our whole population. Other specialties such as dentists who treat gum diseases add dentists who specialize in children's dentistry are not available to our people. Only when our dental school reaches a minimum of sixty students per vear, and a total of 240 students in its facility can it hope to have an adequate specialist training programme. Hence I would - AN HON. MEMliFR: ·- - ··- .- -- ----· How many again? DR. WtNSOR: Sixtv per year and 240 in the total faculty.

I would rather see one strong dental school in the Atlantic Provinces rather than two smaller schools which could not fulfill this need. We could contribute a negotiated amount per student which I think New Brunswick does now with their students attending the Memorial Medical School. Even if the amount was $15,000 a year and for forty students this would 1108

December 9, 1975 Tape 443 PK- 3 be $~00,000, after a few years we could drop back to six or seven students in each year to •etain a reasonable ratio to meet our needs. This would be 1:109

necember 9, 1975 Tape No. 444 NM- 1 DR. WINSOR: far less costly than funding our own dental school and it would have the advantages earlier stated. We have the most comprehensive free , t.-n ~al plan o f any Prov:lncC', but H:lth a shortage of dentists we also have statistics such as in the treatable age group of four to ten, fifty per cent of these children receive dental treatment and in the older age group this percentage deteriorates farther. We have attempted to recruit dentists from other countries with some success and a new recruitment programme has been instituted to recruit dentists to rural areas.

The essential features of this new programme is a $10,000 location grant to enable the dentist to establish his practice and a guarantee of a net minimum income. Also, Mr. Speaker, I feel we have to have a dental health department to stress prevention of dental disease much more strongly,and possibly we would get a greater return in dollars spent if at least a quarter of its budget was spent in this area. Mr.

Speaker, due to an increase i~ the number of physicians, to patients visiting physicians more often and to the increase in fees, the cost of running the medical service of this Province is almost doubled this year and if the federal government reduces its share of this cost in the future, this service will be very difficult for us to continue at its present level. Unless changes are made,and l personally feel, Mr. Speaker, that a minimum charge for the first two or three visits in any one course of treatment should be made to the patient.

Of course there would be many exceptions to this charge and these are chronically ill older patients and all hospital work and emergency treatment. We should by now realize that no country even if prepared to pay the taxes can supply everything. Mr. Speaker, I have been associpted with the Janeway Child Health Centre for the past five years as Chief of the Dental Department and as a member of the Medical Advisory Board. This hospital has achieved rapi.d growth s:lnce its opening in 1966, espcially in the emergency and outpatient's department. In addition the hospital was designated as a 1110 /

December 9, 1975 Tape No. 444 NM • 2 DR. WINSOR: teaching hospital in association with the medical school at Memorial University and this created ~ tremendous demand on its already overcrowded facilities. It is interesting to note, Mr. Speaker, that this hospital now admits over 6,000 childre" per year and last year there were over 90,000 outpatient visits. Over and above this, the hospital provides clinical services which either do not exist or exist to a limited degree in other areas of the Province.

This hospital is the pediatric referral hospital for the Province and its patients come from all over Newfoundland and Labrador. Approximately fifty per cent are from the Avalon Peninsula and the other fifty per cent are from the other areas of the Island and Labrador. In a very real sense, Mr. Speaker, this is the children's hospital of NeWfoundland and Labrador. This hospital is in desperate need of expansion. In some instances the support services have less than a quarter of the space needed, much less than the space that is desirable.

As a result of these circumstances a complete · review was made of the operations and facilities of the hospital with co-operation of both the provincial and federal authorities. As a former director of the dental services and a member of committe~ I am familiar with the contents of this presentation and its recommendations included plans for the provision of additional space for the hospital and I am sure that all members of the House, Mr. Speaker, will join with me in hopin~ that as soon as monies are available the Department of Health will give priority to the expansion of Newfoundland's children's hospital.

Mr. Speaker, of great concern to many of the people in my district is the future of that beautiful area of land that comprises Pippy Park. The concept of Pippy Park is one of partnership between the provincial government, the city and the university, where the land encompassed by the ~ark and control area can be developed in the best interest of all concerned, accommodating within the university buildings, provincial government buildings and athletic areas, playgrounds, tourist areas, etc., anrl museums~woods and trails, and so on. 1111

Oece~ber 9. 1975 Tape No. 444 Nlo! - 3 illl. IHN!>OP.: The area <'f the C.A. Pippy Park. named after the late Che~lcv A. Pi~py who pledg ed Sl million for acquisition of land and development of the park is approximately 1370 acres . The C.A. Pippy Park control ar~ co~riseR a buff er zone around the park property where the ·ne "lis!'< ion controls development. .\!.1 l<md within the C.A. Pippy Park proper will eventually be acquired by ~overnment or by one of the other participating partners . 1112

nece~ber 9, 1975 DR. lTINSOll: Tape 445 IB-1 ~r. Speaker, the main problem encountered here is how long can we freeze land without government supplying monies to buy that land Itt a reasonable price to the landowner. By April of this year 50 per cent of the total area of the park proper had been acquired at a total cost of $3 m:lllion. But only - HI!. S~IALLifOOD: How much? nn. WINSOll: $3 million. Rut only 26.4 acres at a total cost of $17,000 has heen acquired in the controlled area.

Hopefully a more effective land acquisition progranune can be worked out after the updating of the original plans l<>hich should be co~pleted early in 1976. Because of the accelerating pace of the university,government and other ~evelopments in the park, the traffic generated by these institutions an~ by the general growth of the city, the review will be a vitally important process consisting of new studies and new evaluations of the experience of the last five years and projections of development as far into the future as it is possible to see.

The concept of the park and the function of the commission is to ensure the creation and maintenance of the highest planning standards for a very long term development. T have had excellent rapport with the Pippy Park Commission Clnd I have heen ,,,orki.ng closely with them to protect the interests of my constituerts as well as promoting the original aims of the park. T"fr. Speaker, many people in the district of Haunt Scic> are also concerned about the possibility that the Bell Island mines could he used to store 9(1 million barrels of oil.

When the feasibility study of the Power Corporation of r.anad.a is completed in approximately t'•'O years, T have been assured by this govem111ent that safety will he a prime concern and any danger to the ecology will be thoroughly investigate .d. I can assure the people of my district who are concerned ahout this project that I will be watching it very carefully and will have access to all pertinent information, tlr, Speaker, many people, not just in my di.strict but certainly in all the St. John's area who I have talke~. to are concerned about the 1113

December 9, 1975 DR. WINSOR: Tape 445 IB-2 high cost of housing. Increase~ cost of land,material, labour and h:!!':h mortp.:age rates have made it almost impossib] e for lm~ and mi~dle income people tn acc]1d.re their own homes. The effort of our government to counteract these trends will be welcomed by our people. The grant nf $nnn for those who acquire their new homes will be of great benefi .t to 1o~· income famHies '~ho have nifficulty in meeting present ~o~~ payme~t a~d mortgage arrangements. The secon·:l major programme will neal with existing homes.

Th:ls assistance progral!IITle in liaison tdth the federal government will elevelop a home rehabilitation programme to certain selected areas of Newfoundland. J1ut the provinc:f_al government will shortly be announcing a complementary programme to cover all areas of the Province. The third programme w111 introduce a subsidy of new rentals units and this subsidy will be given on the condition that rents will he controlled and kept at a reasonable level. A word here, f'r.

Speaker, on the state of rental accommodations in the city. !!any people 1 have talked with are angry with the quality of • workmanship ;md services in our exist:!.ng apartment complexes. I, and 1 knor,• many !'1embers of this flouse have vis:!.tec'l friends who live in apartments in other cities of Canada and the apartments are of a much higher standard than those currently available here at a reasonable cost. Is this fault, Mr. Speaker, with our building codes or with the inspect:l .nn services of f:!o'Hr.? Tn my own cleal ings with 01HC I have found - I have not been impressed with their efficiency.

I also do not agree that the ~1hole answer lies w~th our taxation system, Yr. Speaker. To overburden the existing homeo~er who has many extra expenses that the apartment ciwel.ler does not have, such as continuing maintenance, paintinf!: in our climate every two or three years, plumbing and heating problems, leaks and m"ny other expenses that all homeo~~ers know too well. He must not forget, Jollr. Speaker, that there are many people in this J'rovj_nce jn the middle j_ncome rroup who are not eligible for ;~ssj stance ~.ncl who are trying to make a go of it on the:!.r own through harc'l work and sacrifice.

And to add another burden to their already 1114

December q, 1975 DP. •TINSOP: Tape 445 crushii:tg loatl may not be the way tn solve this problet~~. We must rell!ember • Mr. Speaker • that the bi~ profits for developers IB-3 are in large apartment COIIItllexes and the like, and already they are receiv-ing assist;mce :In many ways fr0111 federal and pl~ovincial pro~rannes. Is it not in their interest to vf.Sorously promote th-is type of ho~s:lng. to the detr:lm.ent of the type of prlvate housing that the people of this Prorlnee have so long aspired. 1115

December 9, 1975 Dr. Winsor. Tape no. 446 Page 1 - mw In the field of education, there is one area, I think, which needs special comment at this time. We need to have teachers who are educated and trained to spot and to be able to deal with exceptional children, those who are mentally retarded, those who are extremely bright and those with learning disabilities. This latter group, Mr. Speaker, are those children with average or above average intelligence who through some as yet undiagnosed dysfunction suffer from learning disorders that include hyperkenosis auditory or visual perceptual handicaps and dyslexia.

These children are to learn or sometimes n~t retain knowledge to the level of their innate ability. These are our forgotten children, Mr. Speaker. The below, above or average ones are faily well looked after in our society, but these children with special learning problems,of which many of our educators know so little,are severely frustrated. Mr.

Speaker, these children have the capacity to learn but require special teaching aids, a special approach to teaching methods and most importantly teachers who are trained to recognize such problems early in the educational process so that they can be dealt with immediately. And do you know, Mr. Speaker, that the special unit at Memorial University, which has to cope with literally hundreds of cases from the whole Province, to test and to suggest the best educational approach in each case and this with only two on staff. I repeat, Mr. Speaker, only two for the entire frovince.

Obviously, this is a vitally important area of our educational system that has not been given the proper attention it so urgently deserves. Mr. Speaker, tvhile I am very much aware of the necessity to cut back on our spending in these inflationary times, surely this area of education should be given top priority in any government spending even, ~1r. Speaker, if we have to do without a gymnasium or swimming pool: If we do give priority to educational needs, our then well educated, well trained children of today will not be our 1velfare recipients of tomorrow. 1116 .

December 9, 1975 Tape no. 446 Page 2 - mw DR. WINSOR. - - - Mr. Speaker, Newfoundland has come through many difficult periods in her history and with courage and strong leadership, I know the people of Newfoundland will rise to the challenge. To quote Tennyson's Ulysses: "Come my friends/ Tis not too late to seek a newer world." MR.. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Bay of Islands. MR. mODROW: Mr. Speaker, as I rise to speak, I congratulate first of all the two previous speakers.

I am also happy to see on the Order Paper of today, a resolution that I made to this hon. llouse of Assembly concerning a prayer being said before starting each session. And I thought today that I would start off my maiden speech in the following way. Oh, Lord, guide the minds and hearts of all members of this hon. House of Assembly so that they may work with all their strength and ability for the good of the Province in general and their own districts in particular. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WOODROW: I would like first of all to congratulate the Speaker, the hon. member for Waterford - Kenmount.

He is certainly very well fitted to do justice to all the members of this hon. House of Assembly. I would like to say he is very gentle and also very humble. I also congratulate the Deputy Speaker as well as the Assistant Deputy Speaker. These are the titles that they should be given. And also I offer congratulations to the HOft. Premier on his re-election to the district of Humber West, to the hon. Le~der of the official Opposition of the district of the Strait of Belle Isle, and our old friend, the member for Twillingate (Mr.

Smallwood), the only livinr Father of Confederation,and also the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary), and all other · 1117

December 9, 1975 Tape No. 447 ~- 1 MP. WOODRO~: members re-elected in thei~ various districts,and the newly elected member especially the member for St. George's district. T could go on and elaborate concerning some of my associations with the hon. member for Twillingate but it would take far too long. But T want to say that I am really happy to see him in this House of Assembly and to hear him called yesterday a great statesman. Now, Mr. Speaker, I really do not know whether a speaker should go on forty-five minutes or not. I may do it myself. I do not know whether that is a good thing or not.

Because I feel that when a speaker go!'s that lenp.th o.f time he not only looses attention but he also makes it more difficult for the other members of the House of Assembly to speak and I believe all of us here, we are elected for certain districts in this Province and I think we all in fact want to have our say. I~ other words we all want to put in our two cents worth. After all that is the reason why the people sent us here. Now, Mr. Speaker, I consider my election to be a great privilege and an honour.

I t .ave been, as you know, connected with public life for about maybe thirty years and therefore it is not my first time speaking in public. In fact I suppose I could say I have possibly spoke as often as sometimes two and three times a week. And in fact I think the fact that we are elected, the fact that the people put such ~onfidence in us should make us realize how conscientiously we should work for them. t~ district, Mr.

Speaker, the district of Bay of Islands was, as you knm~, up to the time of r£>distribution, when the government created fifty-one seats, a part of the district of Humber West, the district now owned by the hon, the Premier. In this my first address in the House of Assembly I would like to take the opportunity to thank the Premier for asking for me to run in the district of Bay of Islands and with the faith and the trust that the people of the Bay of Islands placed in me,and the hard work of my committee to be able to win the Bay of Islands ~eat for the Progressive Conservative Party of Newfoundland, 1118

necewber 9, 1975 Tape No. 447 NM- 2 SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear! Hear! MR. WOODROW: Mr. Speaker, a government in which I have great confidence and in which -r confidence is increasing daily. The Premier has picked a very able Cabinet and all the members of the Cabinet are excellent members .- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear! Rear! MR. WOODROW: - respected and well-known throughout the Province of~foundland. Now in fact not only, Hr. Speaker, the Cabinet, but just look at the men on this side of the Rouse - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear! Hear! MR.

WOODROW: - businessmen, school teachers, engineers, lawyers, doctors, dentists, insurance agents, clergymen, last but not the least, undertakers ·. I have realized, Mr. Speaker, over the past month what a tremendous job that this government had to do. Although we cannot live in the past and would like to forget it, as the bon. member from LaPoile says, I do not want to be unkind to anybody, I am not here for that, I am here to try to b.e constructive, to build up.

But I want to say that the give-aways of the past have and will for some time to come, place a burden on the shoulders of our people that will be hard to bear. The government has to .again take the bull by the horns and go on to victory. I would like to feel that the bon. members of both opposition parties and the hon. member from LaPoile- he is not here today - will work hard for the good of this Province and not for any selfish aims. 1119

December 9, 1975 Tape 448 PK - 1 Mr . _"!oodeow: At this moment, Mr. Speaker, I want to say that my allegiance will be in the interest of my Province and my party, and after that to my own district. Sometimes, Mr. Speaker, a member can place hi~ district above the Province. What is good for a district is not always p,ood for the Province. I would like to point out now Nhat has been done by some of the fields of government in the District of the Bay of Islands since 1972 and what I would like to see accomplished in the next four or five years.

However I understand that we have,in the interest of the Province at this particular time, we have laid on restrictions, and I wholly support the government in their efforts in this regard. Now I see the )1inister of Transportation and Communications before me, I will probably make his head swell when he hears what is heing done in the field of Transportation and Communications. Mr.

SpPaker, on Saturday, November 22 I drove to Lark Harbour and in fact on Saturday past I drove to Cox's CVve, Now these are the two extreme ends of mv district, As you know my district takes in the two arms of the Bay of Islands, and J have the two arms to look after. Lark Harbour is the extreme end of my district on the South Shore of the Bay of Islands and Cox's Cove is the extreme end of my district on the North S!1ore. I ~~as able to drive from Comer Brook to Lark Harbour on a beautifully paved road. Let me tell you, Mr. Speaker, why I appreciate this.

Because in 1950, around 1950 up to 1954 I drove to Cooks Brook in the Bay of Islands District and there you stopped, you could not go any farther, and on the other side of the Bay, I am not quite sure ~•hen Ballam Bridge was constructed, it was around 1960 I believe, you could not even drive to that side of the Bay.

When I was stationed there, in fact even up to 1956, my golly there was not even - there was some kind of a road there but not a very good one, and there was no electricity, there were no telephones, in fact, you can almost say, no nothing in fact, there were no neople there Pven, because I had to relocate eighty families off l~oods Island. And I !'till think, and I am sure the people feel today 1120·.:.

December 9, 1975 Tape 448 PK- 2 Mr. Woodrow: that was a very good move, and that was the time when the hon. member for Twillingate (Mr. Smallwood) was the Premier of the Province, and I think that he well knows how we talked over that matter and how much I approached him on trying to get this particular job done. ~~:_S~LWOOD: I will not forget it quickly either!• MR. WOODROW: That is it. Quite a time. MR._SMALLWOOD: That was quite a story. MR. WOODROW: It certainly was. It certainly was. In fact we had to have 100 per cent, and I finally got it after four years.

Now I was able to drive,as I said,from Corner Brook to Lark Harbour over a beautifully paved road and this was done during the time the district was in Humber West, I am not forgetting the part of the road from Cooks Brook to Frenchman's Cove either, which was done when another hoB. gentleman was the Premier of the Province. I would like to thank the hon. Premier for having paved the road from Frenchman's Cove to Lark Harbour last Summer. It ts a distance of arywhere from fourteen to sixteen miles.

And I would just like to point out now just what was spent in my district on the South Shore of the Ray of Islands in 1974. In 1974 there was a brid~e put over Blow Me Down Brook, and I think it really- it is pronounced just as it says, Blow Me Down Brook- and it cost $405,304, and in the same year 8.79, I suppose you could say 9 miles of road wa~ reconstructed costing $752,893, and the total cost of the bridge and thP. road amounted to $1,158,197. 1121

Decemher q' 1975 1!1' • HnnTJROh' : nnrl 2.4 wiles of roac1 •·,as rcconstructer fro111 T'renchm;m 's CovE' to T..orl· JTnr'-our co!'lting $234,?.[,9, ;md 6.2 miJes hu:llt cost:lnr ~l,i)fi, 2711. \nd t11ere •·ere <'~so hreastHorks constructetl to the tune of ~11,nf1. IB-1 Ann the totnJ expenr15ture that it made, $731,7110. I never "'ent.:i0nec1 snc'> fir•.>H'f1 in All my life. It i,; frightening. Jp 1975 - t:h<~t waR the year - 14.6 miles of pa,rement, T.11rl· "nrbour, T're-nchJMrt 's r.ove r.ost:lnr. $770,'1110. I!hen I col'le r0 tourj sm T ldll he speal-·inp.

I"Or~ ahout the heauti ful park that :i,; out in I.arJ.· :larhour. No•• then on the North shore of the R>ty of Tsl~tnds, lq72, pavement, C'lllnnR, 3.5 mHes, $22lf, 750. Re­ construct:lon <md pnv:lnr:, ~'c.1vers, r.oxes C'ove, four !'lnes, $372,812. /lncl paving, it <-'<JS r.aJ1f'r' 1'<1nn Poad in GiJ.J.a,- it is .7 miles­ $:>1 ,533. Jlrc><1stvorlr.s in r.oxE>s rove, $5,831. t•ow in 1 'l74 reconstrnction for Pj c'ketts Poe~tl, ~fclvers, roxes r<'ve -no, rf'construet:lon of 1'5cketts Poacl - $21,111. And r0xes rove 11rook and "cTvers J'rook hridges, $72,433.

In 1975 the eol"plretion of r<"xf.'s rove Dro0k hriclge - yes, roxes rove Urook <Jn<l ''cTver.-s 1'-rook brjr'pes eostinp; $6!\,0fJO; and complete reconstruction and p;winf! near the nann propertv - this J think was on the main road - thnt cost ~15,0'10 nncl that amountecl to $71R,470. Now, T come next, ''r. Speaker, to what is terrihly il'lportant in mv c:1istd, · t. Tam sorry the IT'inister concerned :Is not here. T am spe<1kinr. ohout fi~11er1Ps.

"~'here are five herrinp; plants f.n the Bay of lslnnds <Jnrl you cculcl re11lly c.a11, you know, I supposE', llay of Tsl:m<1 - t rlo not lnm.; rroh11hly you coulr1 say it is the - there nre no herrin7 producer' in ;my other part of ~'e<>rfoundland, not as r>any <Jt least :'IS therf' <lre in rhe Ray of Tslancls. I remel'lher one t ;,.,e there '·'118 another plant on the North Shore :md j t T•'C\S owned by the "i.nister of tnterp,nw'rr>l'lent:'ll Affairs. I just fo-rget his othe-r titJe .~t the m0ment. /IN !10N. ''E~'BEI': !'1 nes ;ond Fner)ry. 1122

necember 9, 1975 Tape 449 HP. HOOJ)RI'lH: Jt was in ~·eadows, the !l'eaclows. The Newfoundland Oehyclrates. MR. CROSBIE: t!R. 1~()(\PROW: The Newfoundland J)ehydrate, right you are. Yes. YR-2 Now then the plants are Barry Fisheries, Punphy fisheries, Rumber Colcl Storage, Allans Fisheries down in Benoit's Cove and National Sea nsheries in L11rk Parbour . The >'inister of l'ishe-cies came to Corn er Brook. a wee)' or two ago with me to discuss with the plant owners t hei.r p"!"oblems encountered in the availability of herring. Now these plants emrloy around 700 or 800 people.

But there is a little problem now we h<~ve. Because the quot a ha.s already been caught a lot of these people find themselves in the unfortunate position of being unemployed. 1123

n~cember 9, 1975, Tape 450, Page 1 -- apb MR. WOODROW: It would be a great asset to the people in the Bay ------ - nf Islands district if the Government 'of Canada would Ree its way clear to increase the hrrring quota in certain areas of the Province where this particular species of fish iR in abundance. No1~ ;ust to bring you up, Mr. Speaker, on some of the amounts and so nn, the species, landin~s and value of the various types of fish caught in my district, T have a few figures here I can <mote. Jn 1q72 there were 29~,102 landings of cod and it had a value of $21,748.

Halibut 7,117 landings valued at $3, 838, olaice 71,420 landings valued at $3,834. I think when I was a boy we used to call that flatfish. I remember I used to get down on the stagehead with a prong and we would catch them. In fact, we did not eat them at the time,we did not know they were fit to eat, but I have learned since that they are a very delicate fish. Tn herring, which of course is the biggest one over there, we had 6,43),847 landings - pounds 7 landings mean in this oarticular case - and that had a value of $144,822.

So you can see how important the he.rring fisherv is to the Bay of Islands, in other words, to mv district. Lobsters - I will pass over some of the others - lobsters 54,312 pounds and that had a value of $64,493. Now we had at that time in 1972 in Lark Harbour forty-two fishermen, in Benoit's Cove ninety- two and in Curling forty. In 1973 the landin~s of cod went up to 651,;!00 pounds and it had a value of $57,625. Plaice went up also- A !>I HON. ME"'BER: Herring? "R. '·!flODROW : YeR, I think it did. llid it gn up here? It went un 211, 723 l;mdin~s or nounrls :md that had a value of $13,824.

ThP herr1np. ln 1073 was 15,51"9,212 nonnds, it went un. Tmagi.ne, it was onlY six mi1Jion in Jq72 and it hrought in money to the total of ~444,237 and lohst~rs in 1<}73, 1"2,644 nounds with a value of $f.7,525. In 1973 we hAd fortv-si.x fishpnnen i.n Lark Harbour, Benoit's Cove 108 and Curling twentv-thrPc. also have the ftgurcs for 1974. Cod la.ndinJOs 502,003 pounds with 11 v:tluf' nf ~13,547 and !'laicc 14F.,501 landinp,s or pounds •~ith a value of ~9.~53. PPrrjno- l:mdings i.n fact in 1974 fell hacl< to 4,57'i,l50 pounds with a grosR value of ~144,124. Lobsters 1A9,9q5 nounds with a value of 1124·

December 9, 1975 Tape No. 451 NM- 1 MR. WOODROW: $175,543, anrl :In that year, in 1'174, in Lark Harbour - 56 fishermen Benoit's Cove- 48, Curling- 14. Now we have not got the count for this year. You can see, Mr. Speaker, how terribly important that the fishery is to the Bay of Islands district 1 and I am going to try to do all I can to try in every way to see that every effort is made to help the fishermen in the Bay of Islands district. Now also it is interesting to note, Mr.

Speaker, since this government took office in 1972, in giving out boats, what do you call it - longliners, they spent to the amount of $512,772. So I must say I really thank him for doing so much for the fishery in my district. I will briefly go over the Municipal Affairs and Housing, but I want to say that I was so terribly happy today and I was so terribly happy last ni~ht when our own Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing and the han.

Barney Danson in Ottawa, Urban Affairs, he was able to announce that the amount of $1,743,848 will be spent on a NIP Programme, or a Neighbourhood Improvement Programme in my district. I must say this really - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear! Hear! MR. WOODROW: This really is great news and I know the people not only in my district but also in the Corner Brook area will be glad to hear of it. It is certainly going to make a lot of work for 1976. Over the past three years, Mr. Speaker, in the district of Bay of Islands, that is in the rural areas, an amount of $376,762.90 was spent on capital and current account.

Now I do not think I have that figure rl l'.ht . l 11m s ure it £.< really more than that. t probably have it here under different headings. MR. PECKFORD: That was the first installment. MR. WOODROW: First installment, right you are. I also want to say that the urban part of my district is connected with the City of Corner Brook and it is hard to determine the amount that is spent there 1125

December 9, 1975 Tape No. 451 NM- 2 ~R. WOC'IOilOW: [uot kno1~ ti•;H tlw re hal\ he••n a heautiful bal l fl" rl< hul.l t f" • he ('uri I nr, <tn·n and there nrc sever at ochel' •;;Mll plny1:rnunds ;~nd •he r e has a.l w been - no , [ !llaY be In the wrong field, 1 should be on recreation there you kno,•, but when I come to recr eation T '~ill mention that a~ain. Now &lso under the heading district of Bay of Island s financial arrangement,; ~o~1.th the Oepartlnent of Municipal Affairs and Housing. I have here a ,;tay.p,e rin~ ~um spent to the tune of $1 , 349,343.

Now I got to he fair and s;~v t hat all this is not really all spent but it has been guarant eed and some <>f this will go up to I think something like So 1 really feel happy co know that there is so much ~o~ork done in mv district in the field of Municipal Affairs. In fact there are several onp.oinp, projects out there at the present time.

In fact tn C.ox' s Cove, in Mclvers and io Gillam.'!, the money is already approved for t he construction of water and sewers and a lot of this work has been done also on both sides of the Bay of Islands district and also a lot of money has been spent this summer, and 1 can p.et the figures~ in Meadows, Summerside and Irishtown. The work is not completed there y~t . In fact it is not completed in any of the places but at least th e wo rk i~ p.otn~ on .TOd that i~ very, very encoura~in~ . 1126

December 9, 1975 ~~Hood~w_._ Tape no. 452 Page 1 - mw In the field of recreation, Mr. Speaker, a lot has been done in the district of Bay of Islands. But I think, you know, I believe in centralization, and I think that in any district where we can centralize such things as ball fields, stadiums and the like, I think, you know, this in fact would not only save money for the government, but it would also tend to integrate, it would bring the people in those places together. You must remember in the early days they could not get together because there were no roads, but now it is a different story altogether.

Now, as I said, I was over in Cox's Cove last Sunday, and under construction in Cox's Cove is a beautiful new stadium. They have the steel all up, and they are waiting now to put the sides on it. I suppose next year, no doubt, they will be looking for a cooling plant for the stadium over there. And it is a great thing. In fact, it is really going to mean a lot for sports in the Bay of Islands District, because it is going to look after all the places. It is going to look after Cox's Cove, Mclvera, Cillams, ~eadows, Summerside and Irishtown.

These people are really and truly happy about it, because I do believe, I think, sports is a good thing, you know. I think the more sports we have for our people in fact the better, because idle hands 1 I really feel, they certainly do tempt the devil out of the devil 1 s workshop, as the saying goes. Now on the south shore of the Bay of Islands, maybe I would be remiss in my duty if I did not say that I am really sorry that we had to dismiss the rural district council on the south shore of the Bay of Islands, taking :l.n Halfway Point, Benoit's Cove, John's Beach and Frenchmen's Cove.

We have, thank God, a very good commission set up out there, and I hope in due course that we will have another re-elected government out there again. My heart is really in Benoit's Cove. That is what I spent a lot of years, and I certainly would like to see, not only Benoit's Cove, but I probably would be excused for saying that I would like to see this particular spot really hum, hum. 1127

December 9, 1975 Mr=.__!~o_£d_E~'!_· Tape no. 452 Page 2 - mw Regarding centralization of sports, Benoit's Cove is an area that could be centralized,say, for example, for sport fields and the like, because with the Lark Harbour Road naved it makes a vast difference for that side of the bay. I realize now in this district you have paved roads all the way. It is wonderful. In fact, you know, I am so delighted I used to go out there, in fact, last year, out to Lark Harbour - MR. SMALLWOOD: You want all the roads paved. MR. WOODROW : I beg your nardon? MR. SMALLWOOD: You want all the roads naved. MR.

WOODROW: Well, that is quite possible, you know, At least, all the main roads are done, Mr. Speaker. If I need any, it will only be some that you call the by-roads or something like that. But in any case it does make a vast difference in that side of the bay, of the Bay of Islands. So I am naturally happy about it.

Now also the people, they really realize the -no, what I am really trying to say - I was a little bit off the mark for awhile you knovr- I realize that this government they realize the importance of recreation, beca~qe they have really spent so much monev in this particular field, and it is really too bad that ~•e are going through times of austerity, but I feel it will maybe do us all good, and in time, you know, we cannot look always on the dark clouds, because, you know, the sun comes out pretty fast after the clouds disperse.

In any case, I have enough faith in this government that in due course these things will be done and there will be more sport fields, more recreation and so on, and I am sure that my district will not be forgotten. Now as I said, the district of the Bay of Islands is a rural and an urban one. It is difficult for me to determine exactly what amounts have been spent in the urban parts of my district because it j s a part of the city of Corner Brook. But 1128

December 9, 1975 '"'. T-T()(1Dl'f11T: Tape 453 I can only takelfor example 1estimates. I have here again some of the monies alloted for sports. I am not going to bother about reading it because we say it is there for the record in any case. That is okay, is it? Now, in the field of Tourism, the pavecl road to Lark IB-1 Harbour has changed the district of Bay of Islands completely, and tourism is going to become a bouncing business there. ~1oods Island is a great tourist place. I feel, you know, I will be getting after the ~inister of Tourism maybe to get some money invested in a couple of small passenger boats.

In fact, it would make a bit of employment for somebody during the year. There was also talk sometime ago, Sir - I do not want to put words in anybocly's mouth - but it was talked about putting a penitentiary on Woods Island after we relocated the people. I do not know, perhaps it still can be done. I am not suggest:!ng it should be none but it was suggested, '1r. Speaker. After all,you know, I suppose this is an industry after all. AN FON. ~~MBE~: They do not need a penitentiary up there. ~'R. WOODJ>m.): Very good. 1m HnN. ME!-'BEn: He need one of the :East Coast. HP.

I•TnOnrnH: I tl'ay be punished for what I am going to say next, Si.r, b11t listen to the hon. member for Humber Rast (nr. Farrell): He says the tourist potential of the West Coast has not even been tappen. It is great,you know. There :!.s lots to be done over there yet in the field of tourism. Now, T had the opportunity, ~'r. Speaker, and J travelled a a bit. Vou knm,,, T han the opportun:fty of travelling. I do not travel mur.h mnrP. nnN but I h;we to cnme to St, John's all the ttme.

But T had the opportunj ty of trflveJ 1 ing over :!n Europe a couple of times find in the ~'idc1l e "'fist anc1 J realized over there hmv important an industry tourism '~as, you knm.; . ln fact they really try, I suppose, to make the heritage of the:!r countries k·1own. That is the thing. We should 1129

ncccm~cr o, l~7S "" l!OOn 'PI11J: IB-2 not ~e ashameci . l~e, II" Newfnun<llnnil ers, "'e shoulcl )'lOt he ac<:hall'e~ in anv wav to m<~l·e cur llle\olfountl)<tnci known, to rn:~l~e our fol'!"er 'lewfoun~lan(l t-nn .... -n,hl'causP T al" nlcl enl'nph to know what the di.fficulties were in tile pM•t ;>nd ••ha t st rur.p.l es t·•e had .

No1~, rep.arMnv, "'s T s"'id , this hc:fng 11n aus ter ity ye11r - T ••os poinr to say, r pues:o~ 1ms )?.oing to Ray, yes - t his is il'lportant, ''r. ~pi!Aker - you know, that park in Lru:lc Harbo ur it is a beautiful . p1ncr hut, yon l·nm·•, T 111'1 ro1n$! to invite Any mell'.ber "'-ho wants to come over and it being austerity year I 811' roinp, to pay l1is fare C'Ver there . If he wants ro come ove r l'!t my expense, I will pay him ov~>r . <'O~"' l!flN. ~·E"JirN> : lle;tT! llellr ! ~"' t<OO!)J>I'll': You J.onn~o•, vhN\ y<'u F,et up on the - 'ITI"'(fV: ~uppos ! nr ,..c nl 1 rc? T tlo not cnre .

Phe n you ret up, ~·r. . ~reaker , when Y<'U ret up the I"Ounte~in - I suppose lt is Clll11'fl 1':1o,.· ''e T)n•-n ''<'unta1n, T suppose - the r e is <1 nice lool·out bu:ll t, you knOIJ, >!nd my p)ory he to rot! you ran see the 1-thole of rbe 1\ay of tsl;mcls! In fact, 1t 1s hnanti fnl. Anyhor'v r·>ho l·n~ not heen over tiJere, he shoul d mt~ke <~n effort to co~ , P.speciP l! y ]n ) 976 . '"' l'l'"fi'Y: '•as rhE> hnn . roeMher ever up nn Signal llill? ~lT' . t-'OOOilm•:_ I her your p~trclon? '"' 'll't'P IIY: \-las the hon . f'emher ever up <'n ~:I r;nal P.il l? l'T' . '1nnnrntr : Ir. is vcr:v root!.

Yes , I wns )'C\~ . "nny times, 'r . ~f>e3h•r. ft h;~s nothinp en the lookout o••r in t:hP Lark lh1rhour i!rCa 1 ('1;'0 SSSIITP you of thRt. ;.t: 1'0:-l • ·.tr~~~ : isT -\sk hilT' wht>re it is . Asl< hiM "'here Sif1\d l'fll Yes, r.•her" Js Sil?nal Hill? 1 R that rir,ht? r.ape f:pear I would rat~>er, I Ul<c 1 you knot·l. "'ll. \.j{\(I~P!'!::____ lr. anv cnse no~~. l' r. ~penker, col"inr to l'enlth. AN iiON . ~o/.t1lrr: That is read . t'r . WQOl)lliW: I Mean,• ·h<'n it comes to thnt the Yfni~<t<'r of ''<'alth h:os 113 0

necember a, 1975 fP • \·KlOOPIW: Tape 453 IB-3 left. Corner Brook, Western ~!emorial Hospital, it is a West Coast re~ionnl hospital ~o:hich cost\ I tmderstand .anywhere between, I thin!<, it is $16 million to $18 miJlion. In fact, it will cost $1R mHJton to complete it . That is whnt I unrlerstand. That is ~oiog to employ, countin~ doctors, nurses, ~aintenance, etc. and the li~e , up to something like 1,000 people. You certainly have to call this a very g~ori industry in the city of Corner Brook. It certainly i~ a good industry for the ~est Coast .

Now, you know, I have ~lways been bothered, it has really made we worry about, you know, the visits people are makinp. to the doctors. And I sometimes, you know, wonder if all the visits nre necess11ry. t•ayhe they ~to there just because you can just go in, all vou have to do is go 1n and make your visit and that is it . But 1131

December Q, 1975, Tane 454, Pa~e 1 -- aph "iR. WOODROIJ: I was \>onderinp; if we should not start thinking of about what they are thinkinp; about now in Ontario, putting on .1ust a small fee, say like maybe a couple of dollars. !'fay be if this were done it would make a nerson think twice before he would go to a doctor when it is not always nece!<sary. T .1ust sort ofnake that little !<up.;gestion. It may be taken up or it may not be hut at least I have done it and that is all I can do.

I hope there will be nobodv offended by it, none of the people of Newfoundland, I hope, nor none of the neople in my district will~ offended by this little recommendation that T made. After all, I think we have to try ~o do our best. l~e have to use common sense, we have to try to - as we say, as the Late President Kennedy said - "Ask not what your countrv can do for you but what you can do for your country." SOME HON. ME!-IBF.RS: Hear, hear! ~R. WOODROW: I think we still have to keep those words in our ears. Mr.

Sneaker, in the field of education in my district certainly much has been done and all children are given a better opportunity than we had in our da~'· f)f course it is up to themselves to avail of it. As the sayinp; goes, "You can take a horae to water but you cannot make him drink." I know in my day,brought up in Northern Bay, we haq to walk six miles to school - three miles to and three miles from - and really it did not do us any harm, ln fact, it did us good, nice fresh air or whatever you would want to call it, we even enjoyed the rain and the sno1o.· and everything else. m. HICKMAN: "'R.

WOODROW: Invigorating it was. Invigorating. That is the word I wanted. I was wondering if in those austere times if we could cut down on bus transportation? I am not saying for children in lower grades, that is children from one to six, that is really something impossible hut maybe, for example, children in the higher grades. This is a nossibility and 1 think it is something that we could maybe take a little look at. Again I realize that because of the centralizing of the schools in our Province this is not an easy task. It would be a quite difficult task. I would also say that maybe every member in this bon.

House, maybe they had when they were goinp.; to school, they 1132

December 9, 1975, Tape 454, Page 2 -- apb MR. WOODROW: possibly had a long walk. Sometimes I think if we had a little bit more walkin~ - it is called participaction, that is what they are calling it now-maybe if we had more participaction we would have to construct less gyms and less auditoriums. So, Mr. Speaker, I want to say that I am delighted to have had the opportunity to make what is referred to as my maiden speech in the House of Assembly. In fact one time I used to use a nautical term, I used to use the word 'voyage' as I had to do a lot of my work over the water on the South Coast.

Even when I came to the Bay of Islands I had to do a lot of work by water so I used to call it my voyage. I was tempted to call this speech my maiden voyage but we are going over dry land now and we have to get away from the water,we have to call it our maiden speech. In summarizing, I suppose, or in saying how happy I am and everythinr. else and how much I want to work for and with this government and want to work for all the districts, especially for the district of Bay of Islands, I would like to say that in the next four or five years there is work needed like water and sewerage, for example.

I would like to see some of these projects accomplished in my district. I would like to see the continuation of up~rading of the roads such as the by­ roads and so on of course. Here is where I am ~oing to hit the hon. thP ~inister of Transportation and Communications - SOME HON. MF.MBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WOODROW: In the field of recreation naturally there is a lot to be done. Well, I hope we will try and do within the boundaries of reason what is to be done in that field. DR, FARRELL: Tourism. MR.

WOODROW: Yes, tourism, of course, which is terribly important because I do ~eel that this is going to be a big thing for Newfoundland, Not only for the district of Bay of Islands but it is going to be a good thing for all our districts. 1133

December 9, 1975 Tape No. 455 NM - 1 MR. WOODROW: Also harbour development. As you knn•~ there is a big study going on now in the Corner Brook area which takes in, I believe it ta."<es in from Meadows Point - is it? - d01m to Brake •" Cove on both sides of the Bay and I feel that when this study is accomp t ished it is going to mean a lot for the area. DR. t~RR~ For the immediate area. 1-'R. WOOD~0\•1 : Absolutely. Indeed so. DR. FARRELL:You would like a bit of co-operation from the Minister of Fisheries . MR . WOODROW : Yes, of course, I am just coming to him now, member of Humber East.

I am sure that the Minister of Fisheries and the government will work with me on trying to improve the fisheries in my district, especially the lobster~herring and all other fisheries. And I would also like to say you know that there is no doubt, I am speaking of now a federal member in Ottawa, the member for Humber-St.George-St. Barbe, I am sure that he will work .. as he always does, in the interest of the Province and in fact naturall his own district as well. And of course in the field of farming there remains much to be done, and a lot of other things. r. ut in any case my idea in fact, Mr.

Speaker, of being a member of the House of Assembly is really it does not mean politi cs altogether because that is nonsense. Our people there are not stupid anymore . What it means today is being honest with yourself and if you are true to yourself you cannot"be false to anv man ." h'e cannot fool ourselvs. If we tried to fool ourselves we are being nonsensical, so the thing is to try to help people. People , in fact, people that is the whole thing and my idea of being a politician is trying to work along and help people. ~ r. Speaker, I thank you. ~ ~. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Burin-Placentia. !-!R.

CANNING: Hr. Speaker, this is the first opportunity I h;we had to congratulate the Speaker of the House, Sir, and I would like to take advantage of it, to offer to him my c·ongratulations on his being chosen the Speaker of this House. And,Sir, it is not a matter of form when I say it " as a good choice, a good choice was made by the House. Having 1134 )

December 9, 1975 ''P.. Ci\.'ININC. :_ Tape No. 455 NM- 2 sat with him, Sir, here in this• House for many years, observing not only his respect for the hon. Speaker of that day but as Leader of Her Maje,sty'l': - SOME HON- ME~!BER..§..:_ Oh, oh! ~- .sPEAKF.R (DR. COLLINS): Order, please! Order, please! XR. CANNING: - but as Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition he carried out his duties in such a statesmanship way that it behooves me, Sir, to at least try and not make his none to easy duties as light as I possibly can during the term of his high office: Mr.

Speaker, I feel that I am in a strange House this evening, quite different than I have been used to, and as most members know,! suppose, T was here a long time. Twenty-three years here and a little holiday an~ came back again to find myself a member of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition. Some members on both sides of the House have asked me since T came here,''l~at does it feel like to be back there again, I think some of them look at me and say, · ."Hhy would a fellow who had spent that length of time in political life in Newfoundland," - and there are some fellows here who know just what that is like.

People who worked hard. They were sincere to the people, loyal to the people, sincere in their efforts. It is not an easy job. There are a lot of jobs outside this House much easier, with higher pay, I may say, than to be here. Mr. Speaker, to say what it feels like to be here- I am happy to be back for the simple fact that I had been asked to come back. I did not have to beg too hard to get back here. I did not have to run a high-key campaign or T did not have to play the politics that I do not agree wtth, I never had. I have had always a clean campaign, ' 1135

PK- 1 _',!.· __ c!'..n!".!.nJ~ ' no ~latin~, T never one~ attacked the person of my opponent, I never attacl <ed him personally, or I did not do it in the last election. You might have heard some reports that I did, hut I did not. I had r.reat re11:ard for the f!:entleman that I defeated. He did not do a good joh. T do not think he was fitted for it. I agree with a lot that the previous speaker before me said, but I do not know but two of us think that it i~ such a wonderful thing to have too many lawyers around this House. We differ on that opinion.

I do agree with him and I commend him on the resolution he has on the Paper of sayirg the Lord's Praver, because there is one th:ln~t certain that the I!:Overnment todav needs prayer, but if I had brought in this resolution I think I would have added ,"and may the Lord have mercy on us." Now, }!r. Sneaker, I am sneaking to a motion now this "'regrets the failure of the government to disclose completely and fully the nresent financial situation of this Province and the government thereof., . And, Hr.

Speaker, I would hope to keep my comments to that point as much as I can, because it really means to be level with the people. There are people in this House now listening to me, who are with me now, who were not born when I first came into thiA House. I am not that old, but - thev are on both sides of the House I p;uess - it was tventv-six years a11:o, Now anybody under t'~enty-six they were not here. T cam~ in under different circurn~tances today, in a different day,it was a different generation. Mr.

Speaker, in this House now I consider we havP almost four generations with at least one older than I am, the hon. gentleman from Ttvillingate (Mr. Smalb10od). I consider myself reallv in another generation, and I consider the fellows who came into this House during the last five or six or seven or eight years I was here are really another generation. I do not mean in years but in change, different ways, different ideas, different philosophies T suppose. •fuen I came into the House I came from a large familv in Placentia Bay, a fishing area. I did not come in too green.

I was up in my twenties, I had already p;one through the thirt~.es, I was very young, I f i nished my schoolinr, in the thirties. I graduated ~ ii3 .6

December q, 1975 Tape 456 PK- 2 from high school in Pla.ce,itia Bay in the thirties. I was lucky that I made that distance - a family of nine. I do not know how my father kept Me there, allowed me to stay there long enough for that but I did. ' Then I was of age to be interested in adven.t;ure. I was twenty-t;hree or twenty-four when the World War br{)ke out, IUld perhaps, Mr. Speak~r. it was during tllat war' that perhaps l got DIY first taste of politics. That waa the first tiMe in my life that I reali~ed what polities was.

Becaus .e I - I will 'PUt :f:t this vay When I joined the Royal Navy in 1939, when I volunteered, I went with the belief that I was called on to save the world, I was called on to keep back the lll8.dDum Hitler, I w .as c.alled on to keep the Nazis frOID destroying us. I went with. good faith.' 1137

December 9, 1975 Mr ,__C'~n.'li.E_r,. Tape no. 457 But as I went through the war, and I began to look back over the history and I read something of Germany, I found myself into a >Jar brought on me by stupid politicians. I found myself k:l.lling people. I had a right to do it for it was not murder because it was >Jar. I had to take

part in destroying young men, some of them in their youth, who were victims of politics, political decisions - anY>Jay I am not going into this. I have probably wandered from my subject- but anyone >'ho kno>Js the history of Germany knows what happened to Germany. The people of Germany were crushed to their knees. Britain, the great United States, France in particular, drained their blooa from them demanding payments for the First World War ·debts, and they drove them to their knees.

The youth that I was involved with, that I was facing, that I had to helo to destroy, help to beat, were people who were urged on by Hilter. Leaders before Hilter had got on and said, "We cannot pay. We cannot pay any further. \~e are poverty-stricken. l~e are suffering. He cannot pay, and cannot pay." But Hilter put the fire in the youth when he said, "We cannot pay, and we are not going to pay." So, ~lr. Speaker, I have spent, I would say, in politics not twenty-three years, but twenty-nine years.

My position with the ~overnment of today - there was somebody who asked me, not someone, several people asked me, what is it like to be in the House with Hr. Smallwoorl; You ~~ere always with him, and you always backed him up and now you are going to find yourselves at odds? Mr. Speaker, I do not feel a bit uncomfortable, not one single bit. I do not know, but I say for him, that he does not feel a bit uncomfortable to have me here, because he knows me, and I know him. I dealt with him. Perhaps, ~!r.

Speaker, in regard to something that we got here to tell the people what the Province is like, tell our financial situation, in other words level wi f 11 the people, I am sure that he would say that the way I play 1138

necembe r 9, 1975 .J!;..:_ Cannin~ Tape no. 457 Page 2 - mw politics that is what I would want to do, and that is what I did. He probably knows. Because, Hr . Speaker, I am goin~ to surprise this House , or some people in this House, I am going to SUJllrise the younger members, because all we have hea rd since we came in here are promises . I am going to tell this House now - I am not boasting, I do not go around bragging about this, I am not that kind to throw my shoulders back, I am a very humble man I say , even if I say so myself - that I was involved in - what? Nine elections .

Seve n I won, the eighth I lost by a few votes. Is that correct,! wonder? And the ninth I won. I may be wrong . It was either the eighth or ninth I think, yes, I won. 'lr. Speaker, I never went i.nto the district of Placentia West or Buri.n - Placentia West and got on a stage in my life and never made one - yes, I made on single promise - but I never made promises. I went out to Placentia West when it uas so poverty-stricken, and the only thi.nk I had seen befor e to compare with it was parts of Africa and southern Italy and perhaps i.n - no, I do not think I di.d . That is enough , Africa and Italy .

I was not in India. These were the only places that I had s een people suffering as they had suffered, no doctors , isolated - I do not want to go i .nto i.t . 1139

December Q, 1Q75 1'"". CANNING: T<'!pe 45P IB-1 J h:ove the mem0ry or it hut T c1o not <~ant t o repeat :it. But, ~·r. ~peaker, I never fooled the people, never once. I never called a l'lan to one si.de and said,"You vote for me and J will p:et you a job." I never callen anybodv to one si.de or I never told a ~roup or I never tole a company or anythin~ else, If you vote for me, I will see what I can no for you in the government, and see if I can get you a Joan." I never promised a shipyard or I never promised a fish plant. I mane one promjse.

Jn every single election, every one rjght up to this present moment, the only promise that I made them was that I would do my best. I told them I understood their problems because I ha<' Hvec'l ,.rith their problems. T. leveJlen with them, Hr. Speaker, because I respected the producers, I respecten those fishermen anc'l fishermen' s families who had striven- oh, I will not go into it - had slaved to try to exist. Some fine people, yes I can assure you there 1il'ere some fine people came out of Placentia Bay.

How they nin it then compared to what we have now~ What we should be doing now :md what they dirl with vrhat means they had: No, Mr. Speaker, we should level with the government. T. am going to tell this povernment something now, Mr. Speaker. I know, I have seen it, I know. I feel that I can speak in this House with as l'lurr E'Xperjence as anybody because I have had the lJrivilege, the opportunHy and the privilege of representing people for a long time. T am p.oing to tell this government now that they barely got back here. !lr.

Speaker, thev have a lot of men over there now who just came in, some fine men. ~orne of them I know well. A lot of them I do not know at all. T believe ther e are one or t1ii'O that I have not been introduced to yet v!here T. have not r,one along and spoken to them. What they are going to do, I do not know. But I am going to 1il~rn them that if they do not come level with the povernment-or with the people, if the ~overnment does not come level with the people, if they rlo nnt give them the financial situation of this Province clear anc Jouc, tel] them just ~,,here we stand, }lr. Speaker, they are 1140

December 9, 1975 1-P. • ('.1\NN!Nf; : Tape 458 IB-2 in for trouble, not in the next election-because I am not here fighting the ne'Xt election -but I am going to tell you this, that :tf they rlo not come 1 eve] t·1:f th the!t1 <~nd ~'e t<!'X them, and we bring in more taxes perhaps next year,or if we cut to the bone-which I d'o not believe in and I voted against, ~r. Speaker- and do not tdl the people the true picture, give them the true picture, Nr. Speaker, we will have trouble. It is not very far off. Mr.

Speaker, there is a group of my constituents in my district who sent me in here, the people ,;.'bo voted for me. the people of the fish plants and the people on the draggers, the ordinary pe.ople. 'rhey l-rere not electors who sent me in ,God bless them, g.reat things to have. I hope I do not need them for a little while. They were not lawyers. They were not contractors who asked me to come in to represent them. Nr. Speaker, those people sent me in. And at this very moment there are negotiations going on in my distr:l.ct and up the Southwest Coast of the f:f.sh plan.t workers. I do not know the present situation.

But, ~·r. ~peaker, they t•ant a raise. If they do not get it, we are going to have tr.ouble because they cl!llnot live without it. I can assure this government, I tell yeu this ~ch, the new cro~rd that came into this Rouse on the other side of the Rouse, they certainly have to get after the fellows who were here for the last three of four years. Boy, you have p;ot to change their ideas. 1141

December 9, 1975. Tape 459 RH - 1 MR. CANNINr.: Mr. Speaker, they just have to level. ~lr. Speaker, I will apply directly to my district this business of coming level and what they did not come level with. I remember them hut I have a list of them sometJhere. Mr. Speaker, the people of Burin and Placentia West were promised a hospital. They thought they were going to get it because they need it. They need it badly. It is a life or death issue. Mr.

Speaker, if this government had not fooled the people with it I would not be talking very much about it except I would be saying , "For heavens sake, do not cut us so far that we cannot go on with the hospital." When I say life or death I mean it. You want perhaps to live on the Burin Peninsula to realize that. Perhaps we do not realize that in St. ,Tohn' s. Rut ¥r. Speaker, a few days before election, I do not know if the little bit of machinery went in first or the platform went up first. There was a platform t~ent up, a big sign on it "The District Hospital for Burin Area~' Then a little contract was given.

I do not know if tenders were called. I do not imagine - the amount of $30,000, a little front-end loader I saH there anrl a fetv trucl~ s. They scraped off the surface durinp: the election. t HaS waitinp; every day for the grand sod turning but I believe at the end of the election, towards the end of the election they :o aid, well r,ood heavens, you know, I suppose tve are going to lose up there so t>e hac1 better l~ave it alone. We had better just try to fool them wi t 11 this much. Of course, a few days afterwards the machinery retired off it. The platform was there.

I could tell them whet to put on it, what I would put on it now. Mr. Speaker, I am some proud to be able to say here in this House this afternoon that our people have come far enough, they are so well informed now that they did not get fooled. They tvere not fooled by this Tory Government. Mr. Speaker, they gave them a chance. Sure . they clid. I will tell you something else. I was defeated after ttventy-three years. That is a long time sitting here. I never got complacent. I kept up my work. I looked after the district. The night I was defeated 1142

necember 9, lq75. Tape 459 RH - 2 MR. CANNING: there was not one man in that district who wanted work. They were all '~orking. AN HON. MEMEER: What did you do about the hospital? HR. CANNING : There were a few grunted that about the hospital. Whoever made that p.:runt, you \olould not grunt if you were on the Rnrin Peninsula! Because I can tell you this. You can sneer. You will not be here very long. If you sneer in this House on issues like hospitals vour time ·will come pretty fast. SmfE RON. MEMBERS : Hear! Hear: MR.

CANNIN G:So do not aneer about hospitals, because I am telling this House now that if they want proof I can give them proof, I will give the Hinister of Health proof, that people have died on the Burin Peninsula in the last three years because they could not get into a hospital with the proper facilities to save their lives. They are up there now paying eighteen cents for a drug that they should be getting for two cents. We got nothing to sneer about, nothing to jeer about. Mr. Speaker, I never saw, I never saw anything like that in this House.

The ~1hole twenty-three years with the Opposition in this House, I never saw the Opposition jeer or sneer. I am sure the government did not. Mr. Speaker, we are not going to sneer if the government brings up something like that, like a hospital for people on the Burin Peninsula. 1143

J1rcrmhcr "• 1"75 :~~· - 1 "" Cllll:nNr.: T tole'. n storv before of the cntta~e hospi.tal s up tlH•rC'. T r,:wt> t'H~ stnrv. T got critici?.ed. Twas makinp, politics. r.od forhi d that T "'bot1l<l make pol i ti.cs nut of RUCh a thing. What a fool T Fould hf:. T "ould not he much of a man, •~ould I? And, f 1r. Speaker, T '•'llR criticized. T did not know what J '•'RS talking ahout.

But unfortunately since then T p:uess many lives would he lost. •.:r:_,__B_n!~SSF:A.F:. ' •'hat drugs "'re you talld ng ahnut that selJ for eighteen ,.,_ r.A. ~n•r.: T told vou that drugs are bP.inr solrl on thr. llur.in Peninsula, one rlr.nr. in p:~rticular. ''!"' • N1T'SSI'AT': . ·---- I do not knm• it. Do not ask me to name it. T am not n ph,.,rmacist. Hf'. llf'H'SSE.h 1': 1.-Jherr ~o•as it vnu Ro'lid, St. John's? l'rn1nPuln tod:1v, thr.v nrc l)cinr, sold fnr e:5.):'l:tren cents a drug, th11t r •··:ls told hv R doctnr, nm1 T Rhnll not nal'lE' him, that penJ"lP. coulrl he r<'ttinr thnt nill for t••n cents.

I believed hil'l. He ••as sincere. I knrn., ,.,,. "<.IS sinu•rr. T <lT'l not r.o1np, to p:o nn drugs bec;>use that h;ts 1r-' ip nnl{tic:o;. 1 ~\,;tt :1rC' "~' r;oinp. to do ahnut drugs? Anybody Hho does not kno•• there is a racket made on drugs, he does not know very much, Tf thC' r;Pntl.ern.'ln •·•"o sn£>ered a Hhlle ago Plll~n T ~aid "hnspital", lf hP can ·>crsu:1de his r,overnmrnt in the next three years or four years nr five Vf'nrl", tc inve,.tir .. 1tf' th(' rlrur.s, he will come hnck, 1 can assure him that, ""cnuse T ni.l.l campni 1n for him. I am pretty good at campaigninr, properly.

The governnent marle a promi .se nbout that in 1971. ''."~_0\'lNTNr:_ 1'\n, T Clo not 1 i k£' to talk ahnut promises he cause all the >rnmi ses thev m<~de they hrol:P them. '!'hey broke them. If I have t imr T 1.•i 11 i ust r~nme the promises in my clistr1.ct. ~ot only promises, "r. Snr:1l<rr, I 1-·w.., p,overnl'l!'ntR havp made promjseR before J-out I never R.'ln rne!"!'>l?rs nr minis tcr:o; <'T the r,overnml?.nt, •·.•hnever in the heck thev •terr Pho din it, "ho fonlr>r 1 the people up until the last minute. 1144

December 9, 1975 Tape No. 460 NM- 2 MR. CANNING: Mr. Speaker, on the day before election, they were to vote tomorrow morning, I was in a settlement where they were drinking out of wells and they were after getting $20,000,I think, or maybe they would like my figures, $20,000 to drill ~well, get a w~ll drilled or something. They were told that they would have to do the labour themselves.

They said, no we were not going to go back to the thirties, we want a few more dollars than that, The day before the election out came the telegram from this building here, or out in one of the buildings out in town somewhere, wherever they were, they are all over town anyways so I might be mistaken there, saying,another S45,000 for you, But you did not get them to vote. The people of Rock Harbour have come a long way in the last twenty-five years. Twenty-five years ago I could fool them with it. I did not. But I could have.

Yes, I said a while ago, I even did not remember this,because after I left the House, after I left politics and got out I really - I followed the current events but not in the House too much - MR. MORGAN: Why was not the hospital built five years ago, or six years ago or seven years ago? ~. ROWE: We are talking about promises - MR. CANNING: What is he talking about? MR. MORGAN: Twenty-three years you were here, Sir, there was no hospital t rw n· t h t' fl . ~. ROWE: You cannot build Rome in a day. HR. CANNING: We built a lot of hospitals. And we got a lot of hospital beds and we wiped out a lot.

The hon. member is too young to remember how much T.V. was ir• Newfoundland when we came in here. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear! Hear! MR. CANNING: He never saw the sanitorium on Topsail Road, filled to the seams. And he never saw the people who were in their homes who could not get in there. I saw it and I had the pleasure and the honour to be with a government and to be under ministers of health who wiped it out. We 1145

Opcemher 9 1975 Tar" No. 4oO T just '"'2rn that hon. ~entleman. You know, he Nas here the laRt term •·>rtR he not? .~:--1 HON. ~ 'El'l\E'P: ''P. rANNTNC:: Ancl ],,.. hn~< not got his feet on the p:ronncl yet. 1146

DeceJ!Iber 9, 1975 MT', r.ANNING: Tape 461 If he thinks that the people of Bonavista South want him to be in here getting on like he is getting on, jumping up - oh, he is the full of this House when he gets up. If I were he, Mr. IB-1 Speaker, I would go a little slower. I would get up when a representative of the people on th:ls side of the House, to represent the Newfoundlanders, aske~ a ~oli~ ouest:lon, a logical quest:lon,~mo does he think he is? He :Is here in the na~ of the people. The people trusted him to come in here. -~fl}'IE liON. ~'EHBERS : Hear! Rear! ~. ~~Or:GAN: On a point of order, l'•r. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. The bon. gentleman is debating an amendment brought in by his colleague, the member for Burgeo-Bay P'Espoir (Mr. Simmons), we are now in the middle of debating that amendment to the budget speech. }'r. Speaker, I fa :fl. to recognize or realize ~mat relevancy that my being electe~ or not elected to this Chamber has to do with this debate. I mer .. ly asked h:l.m a question a few minutes ago and I w:lll ask him again now wh:lle I am on my feet - MT', F. ROWE: ·~. ''01?GAN: ><!?. l". 'ROWE : You cannot ask him a question. Hhy ~ras not the - A point of order. 1-'r.

Speaker, the hon. member for Ronavista South (~r. Morgan) cannot ask a question 1 he can only speak to the point of order. "R .• ?-'ORGAN: "r. Speaker, the point of orcler I am making is the hon. gentleman has been rambling on for the last ten to fifteen minutes completely irrelevant to this debate. MR. F. ROl-TE: ~{r, Speaker, if I may speak to that point of order.

I ~hink Your Honour and the Deputy Speaker and the Speaker have allowed .a very wide ranging debate on this particular amendment since it has been brought in, and I think Your Honour w:lll indeed be consistent wibh your colleagues in this respect and allow the wide ranging debate to continue. Also, Sir, - and I do not believe the hon. !!'.ember has a point of order whatsoever in that regard - might I also add, Sir, that the 1147

necemher ?, 1q75 Vl'. T'OHF.: Tape 461 Pon. member for Ronavista South (~r. ¥or?an) invitecl and provoked IB-2 my colleap:ue i11to !"akinp.; reference to hiM :l.n this particular. debate. If the hon. member could have hept h:ls mouth closecl and given my colleague the silence which he rleserves, he would not have been provokecl :Into say]ng what he d:fd say.

Now, Sir, I submit that the hon. member for Ronavista South does not have a po:f.nt of order, and that Your Honour a11 ow my colleague who is presently speaking the same latitucle and breac1th that have been <>llowed to other members of the House of Assembly, Sir. Sm'E RON. }!E'I'BF.P: Hear! Hear! "R. \·JELLS: To the poil1t of order, Mr. Speaker.

An altercationt 11s it "'ere, had occurred between these two members, but I think it is time that the member ~·rho "'as speaking was askec1 to f(et on with matters that are relevant to this debate which is OD the amendment to the buc1get 1 and not whether or not the people of Bonavista South should have e].ected the han. mernher or himself or any of us. The people clid what they d:ld and 1ve have to accept :It and the matter that :Is under debate is, of course, the relevance of the burlget and matters of pub]]c concern to the Prov:lnce. ~1'.

SPEA.T(fl' (~ ' r. rross): The hon. member for Burin-Placentia (1-'r. ranninr:) may continue but I would ask him to keep his words within the realm of relevancy. Thank you, }'r. Speaker, for your ru]inF;. I felt that I was relevant, ~ir. I was being level with the people and the financi<'l sitnat:fon and the subject that I was on was perhaps a little out maybe, perhaps not. /l.nyway, I bow to your ruling, S:lr, and I will try to keep relevant to it, to the subject which is,level with the people. l'r.. Speaker, this r,overnment :Is going to have tc- get level t,•ith the people.

They are going to have to gJve them the financ:f .al sttuation. They are go:tng to have to tell the people ~vhat the:lr ability :1 s to borrow further because, J'r. Speaker, if !hey rlo not and the people have to be deprived of water and sewer - these projects are cut off now - if they are going to he deprived of hospitals, .1148

December 9, 1975 ~!:_._ran'!inli!.._ Tape no. 462 Page 1 - mw Mr. Speaker, and they are not told, I will tell you they are in for a hard time. The people may rise up a little bit here and there before they wait for the next election to kick them out. Mr. Speaker, I have voted against restrictions, against cutting our expenditures to the bone, and I think I have been justified with it, because the district that I come from, it has come a long way, But, Mr. Speaker, the other day when I saw 105 young men with trades walking off the shipyard, Mr.

Speaker, I began to wonder if we could not or if we should not borrow a little further, if we should not'tell the people the financial situation, to see if it was that bad that we could not, to build more draggers. ~r. Speaker, they were promised once twelve, and then in another election, I believe, it went up to twenty-four. They were told up until a few days n~o, a few weeks ago, all was well at the yard. Is that levelling with the people? Mr.

Speaker, this government knew as well as I did, and something else again, the people in the yard knew, they knew, and I am some glad that they did know, because it just goes to show how far we have advanced. And it goes to warn the people on that side of the House, warn the government, that the people know now what.their rights are._ It is just as well for them to come level, because they know it. And, Mr. Speaker, Ottawa, the Prime Minister -what is it he says? Great expectations. Water and sewer today is not a great expectation. And living - what is the one?

Is it living off the hog or on the hog the expression they use? AN RON. MD1BER: On a hog. MR. CANNING: Is it on a hog or off a hog or whatever it is, living on the hog. I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, the people who I speak for, the people who I speak for, the people who put me in, the people who asked me to come bacY because they were not satisfied with what they had, they are not living off the hog or on the hog, whatever you call it. They are barely living now. They are having a pretty tough time with their budget. The people in St, Lawrence are having a pretty taught time with their budget.

The people who were laid off the other day, the people 1.4,. .!. ~

Decembe~ 9, 1975 Tape no. 462 Page 2 - mw ~ _C:.~Jl!l_~P:.;. who were told we <re going to build this f leet of draggers - and, Mt . Speaker , by the way it was a good idea. I was deligh t ed with it when I hea~d it. I agreed with i t, because we need them, and we are going to need t:"lem if we are to survive . If the Sout.hwest Coast is going to suNive, we ce.rtainly should be building draggers in !1al:ysto<ro at this moment, because the production of the plants are down. Some of the olan ts are down fift y- per cent , some of t.hem less. If '"<e are going to ~eep up our production and keep the people working, we are going to need more draggers. If we do not need draggers, and w