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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Thursday, April 3, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Volume 29, Number 7 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR His Honour the Honourable Steven L. Point, OBC FOURTH SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon.

Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ........................................................................................................ Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon. Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ................................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon. Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon.

Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon.

Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General and Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations............... Hon. John van Dongen Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon.

Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of State for ActNow B.C. ............................................................................................................................................ Hon. Gordon Hogg Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Deputy Speaker ...........................................................................................................................................................................

Katherine Whittred Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole................................................................................................................................................. Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E.

George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D. Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H.

James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon.

Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................ East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, David (NDP) ......................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................ Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon.

Gordon (L).....................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Hon. Kevin (L) .....................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, John (L)........................................................................ Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas............................................................................... John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay................................................................................

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ............................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................Hon.

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Thursday, April 3, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................ 10883 Tributes ....................................................................................................................... ............................................................ 10883 Edith McNish Hon. S.

Hagen Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................ 10884 Tributes ....................................................................................................................... ............................................................ 10884 Robert de Grace Hon. P.

Bell Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ....................................... 10884 Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Cap and Trade) Act (Bill 18) Hon. B. Penner Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ........... 10884 Cancer awareness J. McIntyre Community events in Campbell River C. Trevena Fur trapping in B.C. J. Rustad Boundary Woodworkers Guild K. Conroy Bridge builders in B.C. R. Sultan Autism D.

Routley Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ....................................................... 10887 Funding for Royal Columbian Hospital A. Dix Hon. G. Abbott C. Puchmayr ICBC performance bonuses to Paul Taylor H. Lali Hon. J. van Dongen Investigation into ICBC vehicle sales H. Bains Hon. J. van Dongen Agricultural land reserve regulations L. Krog Hon. M. de Jong Wild salmon fishery S. Fraser Hon. P. Bell Non-essential pesticide use G. Robertson Hon. B. Penner Labelling for products containing toxic substances G.

Robertson Hon. B. Penner Proposed power project for Cascade Falls K. Conroy Hon. B. Penner

Tabling Documents.............................................................................................................. .................................................. 10892 Capital project plan, integrated case management project Hon. T. Christensen Petitions...................................................................................................................... ............................................................. 10892 N.

Simons Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................. 10892 Utilities Commission Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 15) (continued) B. Lekstrom Hon. R. Neufeld Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... ........................................ 10898 Small Business and Revenue Statutes Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 11) J. Brar Hon. R. Thorpe M. Sather G.

Robertson Report and Third Reading of Bills .............................................................................................. ......................................... 10909 Small Business and Revenue Statutes Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 11) Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... ........................................ 10909 Labour and Citizens' Services Statutes Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 13) Hon. O. Ilich C. Puchmayr K.

Conroy Point of Privilege (Reservation of Right) ...................................................................................... ...................................... 10916 L. Krog Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................. 10916 Estimates: Ministry of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology Hon. M. Coell R. Fleming H. Bains

10883 THURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 The House met at 1:32 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Introductions by Members Hon. G. Abbott: This morning the Premier and a large number of members on both sides of the House had the privilege of joinin g representatives from the Canadian Cancer Society for breakfast. It was, as is usual in breakfasts with the Canadian Cancer Society, a very informative and constructive event, and I'm sure all members of the House were very appreciative for that opportunity. It is also, Mr.

Speaker — and you know this proba- bly better than everyone — Daffodil Month, and that's why this daffodil adorns my jacket here today. Of course, the daffodil has become a symbol for the Canadian Cancer Society and the wonderful and beneficial work that they do on behalf of all British Columbians and all Canadians. It would be my pleasure to advise the House that in the gallery today are Barbara Kaminsky, the CEO; John Jacobson, the board chair; and Kathryn Seely, the pub- lic issues manager with the Canadian Cancer Society.

I'd ask members across the House to join me in wel- coming them and thanking them for the wonderful work they do day in and day out. S. Simpson: I also attended the breakfast this morn- ing and certainly join the minister in congratulating those guests. We also have with us today Mae Burrows, who is the director of the Labour Environmental Alliance. Mae was at the breakfast this morning as well, and part of the reason for her being there is that she was one of the recipients of the Canadian Cancer Society partnership award.

She received that award for work that she and her organization are doing on the CancerSmart Con- sumer Guide and on the issue of having pesticides banned throughout British Columbia, which was the focus of the discussion this morning. I would ask the House to both congratulate Mae on her award and make her welcome. Hon. C. Taylor: I'd like the House to welcome a great friend of mine and one of Canada's best-known actors, Mr. Jackson Davies. Jackson and I first met when we worked on a CBC show together perhaps 20 or 30 years ago. We don't like to quite remember. [1335] Jackson is now serving on the B.C.

Arts Council and helping us with those re sponsibilities. But I should also say that tonight he is in a play in Sidney, and it's called Hockey Mom, Hockey Dad . So if anyone has time, you can see Jackson tonight. Please welcome him. N. Simons: I'd like to introduce in the House today my guests Dal and Kay Matterson from Powell River. Powell River has hosted the world-renowned Kathaumixw Choral festival since 1984. Dal Matterson chaired the very first fest ival, and both he and Kay continue to be very involved with the event. Kay also works with the Powell River Academy of Music.

Dal is the president of the Myrtle Rock improvement society. Truly, they're both great assets to the citizens of Powell River and the region. I'd like the House to join me in making them most welcome. Hon. R. Neufeld: It's my pleasure today to intro- duce to the House two constituents, two friends of mine from Fort St. John, Bruce and Gail Reid. They're accompanied by Bruce's mother Jean Reid, who lives down here. They're having a visit. I'd like everyone in the House to make them welcome, please. D. Routley: Could the House help me welcome Julie Nygaard and Heather Bosch.

They are two par- ents of autistic children an d members of a group that has formed in our constituency who are advocating for services and understanding around the issues of autism. Would the House help me welcome them. H. Bloy: It gives me a pleasure to rise in the House today and welcome the future of British Columbia. We have grade 5 students here from Our Lady of Fatima School, and I had the privilege of talking with them ear- lier. They're in the gallery. I know that British Columbia is in good hands with the teaching that they get. They're accompanied by their teacher Paula Bourassa.

Would the House please join me in welcoming them today. Tributes EDITH McNISH Hon. S. Hagen: It's an honour for me today to pay tribute to a pioneer in the Comox Valley who passed away late last month. Edith McNish was born on June 4, 1907, and it was a privilege for my wife and I to at- tend her 100th birthday in June of last year. I first met Edith in 1972 when I was elected to school board and she was on school board. Prior to that, she'd been a teacher. She was also the first student from the Comox Valley to complete her senior matricu- lation exam.

After she retired from school board, she became a volunteer, visiting people in the hospital until she was about 95 years old. I would have to think Edith McNish was probably the world's oldest candystriper, and people all over knew her for that. She is also very interesting because almost up until her death, my wife would phone her to get information on the history of the Comox Valley. She would sort of cut my wife short and say: "I'm sorry. I've got to go, Judy, because I've got to go visit the old people." So I want to pay tribute to Edith, and certainly our condolences to her family.

She was a wonderful, won- derful citizen.

10884 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 Introductions by Members V. Roddick: In the precincts today were 22 grade 5 students and three long-suffering parents and their teacher Mr. Jason Webber from Southpointe Academy. It's always great to have young people because they ask real direct questions. It was a terrific time trying to answer them. Would the House please join me and make them very welcome. Tributes ROBERT DE GRACE Hon. P. Bell: Prince George lost a key individual a little over a week ago in Rob de Grace.

Rob was a busi- nessman, well respected in the community and an avid outdoorsman who really represented all the great values of northern British Columbia — entrepreneurialism, but also someone who really enjoyed life to its fullest. [1340] Rob did not suffer long. He passed away quite quickly at quite a young age, unfortunately. He has left behind his wife Kathy, and I would ask that the House please pay their respects to the de Grace family. Introduction and First Reading of Bills GREENHOUSE GAS REDUCTION (CAP AND TRADE) ACT Hon. B.

Penner presented a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Cap and Trade) Act. Hon. B. Penner: Mr. Speaker, I move that the bill be introduced and read for a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. B. Penner: I am pleased to introduce Bill 18, the Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Cap and Trade) Act. This bill is a significant component of this govern- ment's climate action strategy.

We took our first step in climate action with the en actment of the Greenhouse Gas Reduction Targets Act last November, setting out targets to reduce British Columbia's greenhouse gas emissions by at least 33 percent below the 2007 level by 2020 and by at least 80 percent by 2050. The Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Cap and Trade) Act will help us achieve those targets by enabling a market-based system to limit greenhouse gas emissions in British Columbia. This act is one of several pieces of legislation concerning gree nhouse gas reductions that are being introduced during this session.

The act will provide regulatory authority to sup- port our climate action goals while establishing a legal basis for the province's participation in the regional system being developed by the western climate initia- tive, a partnership of U.S. states and Canadian prov- inces that is dedicated to tackling the challenge of climate change. A cap-and-trade system puts an absolute limit or a hard cap on the emissions responsible for global warming. It is designed to spur innovative and low-cost solutions to reduce carbon pollution.

In B.C. the Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Cap and Trade) Act will provide authority to set a hard cap that will apply to designated large emitters. The cap will consist of a limited number of emission allowances that will be distributed by the government. The act will require that the regulated emitters obtain enough emis- sion allowances and other compliance units, such as offset credits, to cover their emissions. These units must then be surrendered to the government as proof of compliance. Over time, reductions in this cap will drive reduc- tions in emissions.

The act will also enable emitters to trade allowances, offsets and other compliance units to take advantage of market forces that promote innova- tion and investment and cleaner and more efficient technologies. The Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Cap and Trade) Act will make British Columbia the first Canadian province to introduce legislation authorizing hard caps on greenhouse gases. Mr. Speaker, I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 18, Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Cap and Trade) Act, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) CANCER AWARENESS J. McIntyre: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to pay tribute to the Canadian Cancer Society and all the dedicated volunteers for their efforts to educate us and to find a cure for a disease that has touched the lives of almost everyone and, unfortunately, affected several colleagues in these very chambers. In Toronto in the '50s, the Canadian Cancer Society volunteers organized a fundraising tea and decorated the tables with daffodils. The bright, cheerful flowers seemed to radiate hope and faith around the room that cancer one day could be beaten, and that symbol and optimism remain today.

I'd like to specially recognize Barbara Kaminsky, who for the past 13 years has been the chief executive officer of the B.C. and Yukon division of the Canadian Cancer Society. With a multitude of accreditations and more than 30 years of experience in health care, she has shown true leadership and th e will to help in the fight against cancer. Statistics show that one in three British Columbians will develop some form of cancer in their lifetime. In

THURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10885 our effort to enhance and protect the lives of our up- coming generations, our province continues to make significant investments in cancer research, treatment and prevention. As mentioned in the throne speech, the province has committed to spend $2 million to expand research on preventing and treating childhood cancers. Last July, with approximately $12½ million in funding from the Ministry of Health, the B.C. Cancer Agency opened newly renovated areas of the Fraser Valley Centre in Surrey. The B.C.

Cancer Agency al so plans to open a fifth regional cancer centre in Abbotsford later this year. New provincial regulations just came into effect, which restrict the promotion and sale of tobacco products, and also a ban on smoking in all indoor public spaces and workplaces. [1345] These are just some of the measures that our gov- ernment is taking to tackle this insidious disease, espe- cially for our youngsters who will now be protected from being subjected to secondhand smoke in vehicles. The Canadian Cancer Society delivered a daffodil to MLAs this morning.

We'll proudly display these daffodils as a symbol of our support and gratitude to the Canadian Cancer Society for making the month of April Cancer Awareness Month. Together we will aspire to one day find a cure. COMMUNITY EVENTS IN CAMPBELL RIVER C. Trevena: I t ' s g o i n g t o b e a b u s y w e e k e n d i n Campbell River this weekend. It starts off with the an- nual Words on the Water, which is Campbell River's writers' festival, which opens on Friday night. This event brings together authors and readers for two days of readings and discussions with a literary cabaret on Saturday night.

Tickets usually sell out very quickly for the event, and the sessions overflow. Two years ago or- ganizers were honoured to have the then Lieutenant- Governor open the event at the Maritime Heritage Centre. This year the Lieutenant-G overnor has other commit- ments in Campbell River at the 50th anniversary of the Ripple Rock explosion and at the annual Walk Away From Racism. I'll talk about the former event on another occasion, as I do only have two minutes. The Walk Away From Racism has been organized by the Campbell River Multicultural and Immigrant Ser- vices Association for the last 12 years.

It's an event which brings together people of all ages and all backgrounds — new immigrants, first nations, people from the city and from the islands. Bringing pe ople together is vital be- cause only by coming together can we challenge and overcome ongoing issues such as racism. No matter how nice we think we are, what a progressive place we think B.C. is and how multicultural we are as reflected in the latest statistics, there is undeniably racism here. That's why this walk every year, along Campbell River's city blocks among the Saturday shoppers, is so important.

People walk side by side and say: "Racism is wrong." The organizers this year are extremely pleased that His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor will be there, not just because of his office but his clear, unwavering commitment to reconciliation and the need for us to celebrate our differences. The Walk Away From Racism ends with celebra- tions at the community centre. It ends with the oppor- tunity for people to talk, sh are music, share food, have entertainment and hope that each year the walk will grow and the understanding of our differences and our values will grow along with it. FUR TRAPPING IN B.C. J.

Rustad: More than two centuries ago our prov- ince went through an incredible transformation. People came to this land for the opportunities created by the demand for fur. These newcomers entered into part- nerships with the first nations and developed trade. Their legacy helped to transform our province and laid the foundation for our society. Today more than 50 percent of the trappers are from our first nations, and all trappers continue in the traditions that are such a significant part of our heritage. The B.C. Trappers Association was formed in 1945 and is the oldest trappers association in Canada.

I had the honour of attending their AGM in Vanderhoof re- cently and found it a great opportunity to discuss their issues. The association is a positive, non-profit organi- zation with four objectives: to promote sound, humane, furbearer fur management through research, education and cooperation with other related organizations; to represent trappers at the pr ovincial, national and inter- national levels; to promote the general welfare of the trappers of British Columbia; and to promote commu- nications, information and dialogue among trappers.

Wildlife biologists have lo ng recognized the necessity to steward the province's wildlife and the need to educate the general public in the role of trapping as a critical segment to wildlife management. Without trapping, furbearer populations expand, creating competition for limited resources which can compromise the health of the entire population. The weakened conditions of these animals could result in starvation and disease. Regulating trapping involves the control of disease and animal population densities.

In this regard, the trappers help keep furbearer populations at healthy levels and help avoid diseases. Trappers also work towards improving habitat and have been creative in suggesting ideas around utilizing woody debris for enhancing wildlife opportunities. [1350] Please join me in congratulating the B.C. trappers for their efforts towards he lping our environment and for continuing in the traditions that helped to open our province to the world. BOUNDARY WOODWORKERS GUILD K. Conroy: Lately we are continually hearing the horror stories associated with the devastation that the

10886 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 pine beetle has caused in ou r forests. However, today I want to acknowledge the ingenuity of the Boundary Woodworkers Guild, who have taken the disaster and turned it into incredible beauty. Ten members of the guild have taken a lift of blue-stained pine donated by Pope and Talbot and used it to produce works that cover a range of items. The exhibition at the Grand Forks Art Gallery is entitled Rhapsody in Blue Wood. The guild members have produced not only functional items like dressers, tables and bowls; they have created an amazing display of art.

I want to quote David Milton, one of the founding members of the guild: "Variously called a disaster, a calamity or the death knell of B.C.'s forest economy, the challenge presented by millions of acres of beetle kill forests has been met by this guild's membership and turned into an exhibition of some of the possibilities the medium offers.

Exhibition visitors are invited to make up their own minds about utility, beauty, form, texture, artfulness and so on, and hopefully take with them an impression of blighted wood as an ex- pression of woodworkers' passions and skills." One only needs to look at the works to acknowledge the passion in these woodwo rkers that has been trans- formed into exquisite function al art by talented hands. Dave has a vision that he hopes comes to fruition.

His vision is to give the province's woodworkers — and that's everyone from the primaries to the high-end, value-added workers — a chance to show the whole world how we can change an unmitigated disaster into a golden opportunity. He hopes that through Forest Renewal's Beyond Boards initiative, there could be a provincewide effort to display a magnificent exhibition in Vancouver dur- ing the Olympics. He applau ds the construction work being done with the blue stuff, but there is much more to it than that. The guild's opening foray more than makes that point.

He also asks that I — and no pun intended — put a bug in the minister's ear to help make this happen. Dave, consider it done. BRIDGE BUILDERS IN B.C. R. Sultan: British Columbia professional engineers are famous as bridge builders from Borneo to Kicking Horse. Why? Look around. Rivers and canyons, islands and fjords in every direction. Bridge or boat — take your choice. My constituent Peter Buck land, P.Eng., and the firm he founded, Buckland and Taylor, win lots of awards for their bridging accomplishments.

Recently at a black- tie gala, Buckland and Taylor received the Lieutenant- Governor's award for excelle nce in engineering, as judged by the Consulting Engineers of B.C. A few weeks earlier Peter Buckland himself had been given the Order of Canada. What are these engineers up to now? Two out- standing projects: the North Arm bridge across the Fraser River for the rapid-transit Canada line connect- ing downtown Vancouver to the airport and the Golden Ears bridge spanning the Fraser further up- stream at Maple Ridge. Both are what engineers call extra-dosed bridges.

Now, extra-dosed doesn't refer to some high school disease. It's a particular design where the weight of deck and vehicles is carried through cables up to the towers and down through the towers to the founda- tion. Both girders and cables carry the load. Got that? The result is a very efficient, low-profile bridge with superior aesthetics. Lo w-profile is important be- cause both bridges are near airports. These will be the first and second extra-dosed bridges in all of North America. Recently contractors Bilfinger Berger and McIlhaney s h o w e d m e a ro u n d G o l d e n E a r s — spectacular.

I par- ticularly appreciated the eagle statues which will crown the towers — a fitting challenge to the pair of lions guarding the entrance to my own constituency's Lions Gate Bridge. By the way, Peter Buckland also supervised the recent renovation of that North Shore icon and, thanks to great engineering, says it should last another hun- dred years. AUTISM D. Routley: I rise today to speak about the chal- lenges of autism.

Autism is a disease or a syndrome that had an incidence just a few years ago of one in 10,000, which has increased now to one in 150 accord- ing to the largest study carried out in the United States. [1355] We can clearly see a link to certain areas and envi- ronments. Premature babies are more susceptible. There are more boys affected. Although the cause remains a mystery, there is no mystery that there are myriad services and agencies for parents and families to guid e themselves through, and multi-ministerial roles that are confusing. Contracting of professional services is very challenging to families.

The integration into schools without adequate support…. It is no mystery that they face a great struggle and a lack of support. They have great issues in classrooms, and classrooms have issues with them. But it doesn't need to be that way. We don't need to suffer financial devastation, and it is a good experience for people to be in a classroom with auti stic children with proper supports. What's required is traini ng and funding.

The throne speech pointed to a residentia l school setting, but ac- cording to many of the parents that I have spoken to, classroom integration is important because the role of modelling from other children who are not affected by autism is important to autistic children. Adjustments need to be made by students, by workplaces and by society as a whole. We must accept autism. We have a skill shortage, but more than that, we have a youth shortage. We have to make the best of each other. Only by being the best can we be the best B.C. Only by supporting autistic children in B.C. can we reach our goals.

THURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10887 Oral Questions FUNDING FOR ROYAL COLUMBIAN HOSPITAL A. Dix: Last month Dr. Rob Granger, a surgeon at Royal Columbian Hospital, sent a letter to the head of the Fraser Health Authorit y and to the Minister of Health. It was another in a long list of warnings that this B.C. Liberal government is failing patients, doctors and nurses at Royal Columbian Hospital. Dr. Granger called the overcrowding of the ER chronic and stated that we are truly in a crisis.

He goes on: "Operating slates are ca ncelled on a daily basis, operating rooms are closed, an d patients are sitting in hallways for nursing care." To the Minister of Health: is he simply going to dismiss Dr. Granger as he's dismissed so many people in the past, or will he finally admit that his govern- ment's policies and cuts are pu tting patients at risk at Royal Columbian Hospital? Hon. G. Abbott: I can tell the member definitively that no government in the history of British Columbia has ever made the investments both on the capital side and on the operational side that this B.C.

Liberal gov- ernment has made. When we took office back in 2001, the annual budget for health in British Columbia was $8.3 billion. This year it's over $14 billion in investments. We've made investments in Abbotsford, which the opposition promised for a decade — never delivered — and we will see in August the opening of the Abbotsford regional hospital and cancer centre. We are making over $200 million in investments in Surrey Memorial Hospital, including a tripling of the emergency department. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. A.

Dix: This minister, like the previous minister, shows that he doesn't care at all about the situation at Royal Columbian Hospital. It's a shocking situation. Here's what Dr. Granger said — not me; Dr. Granger. He says that this hospital has suffered from years of financial neglect with no significant input into infra- structure. Dr. Granger said, "We are having cancers and other urgent elective surgeries cancelled continu- ally for lack of resources," and the minister says that's acceptable. The minister is bragging.

Is this just one other warning about Royal Co- lumbian Hospital that this minister is going to ig- nore, or will he finally listen to doctors, to nurses, to health care workers and to patients in New West- minster and across the Fraser Health Authority and put the resources needed into the Royal Columbian Hospital? [1400] Hon. G. Abbott: Royal Columbian Hospital is a great facility for British Columbia. I am enormously proud of the work that doct ors, surgeons, nurses and residential care aides do at Royal Columbian Hospital.

They do a great job, and this government backstops that great work by all the health professionals at Royal Columbian Hospital with appropriate investments — like 45 more sub-acute care beds at Queen's Park Cen- tre, ten additional overflow beds at Royal Columbian, ten rapid-discharge beds at Royal Columbian, a new trauma nurse practitioner, a full-time geriatric nurse — in a whole range of areas, including a new eye care program for improving the flow of patients through Royal Columbian Hospital.

Government and the Fraser Health Authority are making great investments and ensuring that Royal Columbian Hospital remains a fine and viable facility for all the residents of British Columbia. Mr. Speaker: The member has a further supple- mental. A. Dix: The previous Minister of Health was warned in 2003, and he did nothing. They were warned in 2005. They did nothing. They were warned in 2006. They did nothing. They were warned in 2007. They did nothing. The situation has gotten worse and worse. Oh yeah, they were warned in 2004 too, and what did they do? They shut down St. Mary's Hospital.

My question to the Minister of Health is: when is he finally going to listen? When is he going to acknowledge that it was a terrible mistake to shut down St. Mary's Hospital? When is he going to acknowledge that his policies and his government's policies are failing patients at Royal Columbian Hospital? Hon. G. Abbott: Well, it is remarkably tempting to defer to that member and that former government's acknowledged expertise in knowing what doing nothing is. They did it for ten years — ten years. They promised the new Abbotsford hospital for ten years. Didn't deliver.

Promised improvements to Surrey Memorial Hospital. Didn't deliver. Promised hospitals in Kelowna. Didn't deliver. Promised facilities and programs all around British Columbia. Didn't deliver. Clearly, they have expe rtise in not producing any- thing for the people of British Columbia, but if we look…. The member says that Royal Columbian Hospi- tal doesn't get the dollars that they deserve. Not true. In fact, we have seen the budget for Royal Columbian Hospital grow from $146 million just a couple of years ago to now close to $250 million. C.

Puchmayr: The crisis at Royal Columbian Hospi- tal was designed by this government. It was the B.C. Liberals that closed and demolished St. Mary's Hospital in 2004, taking 71 acute care beds out of the region — 71 beds that were very needed in that region. Doctors warned the B.C. Liberals repeatedly that the impacts would be severe on Royal Columbian Hospital.

10888 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 ER Chief Dr. Haggard said: "ER delays are causing harm to patients." He went on to say: "The Royal Co- lumbian ER is the worst in Canada." This happened under this government. To the min- ister. For five long years doctors have been sounding the alarm. When is the minister going to wake up and take their concerns seriously? Hon. G. Abbott: I visited Royal Columbian Hospital, including their emergency department. I know that often, particularly in peak times, there are challenges there.

I know that Fraser Health and all of the staff at Royal Columbian Hospital work constantly to see continuous improvement in the way they manage that. [1405] One thing that disturbs me, though — because I hear it from this member, I hear it from the opposition Health critic — is they link the closure of St. Mary's to emergency department pressures at Royal Columbian Hospital. In fact, St. Mary's never had an emergency department in living memory. Never in living memory did St. Mary's have an emergency department. So to make that false linkage….

I think they're trying to cover up for their embar- rassment at doing nothing about Royal Columbian, Surrey Memorial, Abbotsford regional hospital. They did nothing for a decade, and they're trying to hide their embarrassment today. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Just take your seat, Member. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The member has a supplemental. C. Puchmayr: You know, we have over and over again said to the minister that Royal Columbian Hospi- tal and St. Mary's Hospital did work in tandem.

They had operating theatres that they could open during an overflow such as the overflows that are happening now, as opposed to cancelling the many surgeries. The Minister of Health needs to go back and look at his own record. In January 2004 the Fraser region ER chiefs warned the Liberal MLAs that overcrowding was threatening patient safety. In May of '04 the B.C. Liberals ignored the warning and closed St. Mary's Hospital. In April 2006 Royal Columb ian ER doctors issued a public letter warning of a severe bed shortage and a crisis.

February '07 — all 24 ER doctors sent this Health Minister a letter talking about the massive overcrowd- ing. In February 2008 the fire marshal had to intervene in Royal Columbian Hospital because patients were clogging up the doorways and the hallways. That was two months ago. Enough is enough. When is the Health Minister going to take these concerns seriously and act so that we can save the lives of patients that are at risk today? Hon. G. Abbott: I appreciate the member taking us for a walk down memory lane.

One thing he didn't do, though, was take that walk down memory lane back to the 1990s, when we used to hear repeatedly…. We used to see, repeatedly, headlines in relation to the situation…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat for a second. Members. Continue, Minister. Hon. G. Abbott: If the members want to take a walk down memory lane, they should take a real walk down memory lane. Go back to the 1990s. See headline after headline about the emergency department at Royal Columbian Hospital. What did they do about th at? Nothing. What did they do about Surrey Memorial Hospital? Nothing.

What did they do about Abbotsford? Nothing. They made no in- vestments. They're big talkers. They do nothing. We invest. We're the ones that are creating a new Abbotsford regional hospital and cancer centre. We're…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. ICBC PERFORMANCE BONUSES TO PAUL TAYLOR H. Lali: My question is to the Solicitor General. Was Mr. Paul Taylor paid a performance bonus last year? If yes, how much? Hon. J. van Dongen: First of all, I thank the member for his question. I want to preface my comments by restating that this situation is unacceptable.

In considering this matter in the last 48 hours, I want to state for the record my expec- tations of ICBC, both in deal ing with this issue and in the conduct of all of their operations. I expect integrity, I expect competency, and I ex pect service from the or- ganization. That is what I am asking for from the board of directors and the whole of the organization. [1410] I am continuing to do my due diligence on this situation. I have made a second phone call to the chairman of the board of directors and asked for a meeting with the board of directors in the near future. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. H.

Lali: My question was really about Mr. Paul Taylor. Well, let me remind the minister opposite. Here's Mr. Paul Taylor's record: (1) a Liberal B.C. Rail corrup- tion scandal, (2) a Liberal convention centre scandal, (3) a Liberal ICBC corruption scandal.

THURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10889 Paul Taylor must have known that there was some rot that was taking place at the ICBC facility. Paul Taylor ran the Automobile Dealers Association before he became the Premier's hand-picked Deputy Finance Minister and then moved to ICBC. As a former Auto- mobile Dealers Association chief, Paul Taylor — more than anyone else — knows that not telling the truth about accident records is an offence.

Again, to the new Solicitor General — now that the old Solicitor General is gone, and also in the interests of public accountability: will he now appropriately hold Mr. Paul Taylor, the CEO of ICBC, responsible for the Liberals' ICBC fraud scandal? Hon. J. van Dongen: In answering the question, I want to reaffirm with the House that the board of directors of ICBC reports to me as minister and that the CEO, the chief executive officer, of ICBC reports to the board of directors.

I will say further, in answer to the member's ques- tion, that matters of personnel are matters that have to be dealt with appropriately within the law and with due respect to all of the legislation and common law around that, including issues of personal privacy. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. INVESTIGATION INTO ICBC VEHICLE SALES H. Bains: According to ICBC spokesperson Doug McClelland, there was an internal investigation last year following a complaint about disposal of cars from this repair centre.

Can the Solicitor General tell this House why nothing was done six months ago when the senior management at ICBC first learned of this complaint? Can he assure this House that the Pricewaterhouse investigation has powers to find out why ICBC failed to rectify that problem when it was brought to their attention more than six months ago? Hon. J. van Dongen: I thank the member for his question. As I said, I am continuing to do my due dili- gence on this issue. Further to that, that is why I've asked for a meeting with the board of directors and will be discussing with them a range of issues that I have reviewed.

I will include all of the issues that I think are relevant in that meeting. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. H. Bains: You know, the public is looking for more than just a friendly phone call to a chair of that organi- zation. They are asking this minister…. They're looking up to this minister to do some proactive duties that he ought to do, so that he could ensure that the confidence and trust of the public, whic h has been broken through this scandal, is restored. It's your job. You haven't been doing it so far. My question is this.

How can he assure the public that Pricewaterhouse has the powers that they need to get to the bottom of this scandal if we don't know what they have been asked to investigate? Will the Solicitor General release the terms of reference so the public can be assured that they have the power needed and a scope wide enough that we can get to the bottom of this scandal? [1415] Hon. J. van Dongen: I want to assure the member, the public and the members of this House that all of my actions will be predicated on doing what I believe I need to do to restore public confidence in ICBC.

Secondly, I want to confirm for the member that I have read the terms of refere nce, and those issues that are within the terms of reference will form part of my discussion with the board of directors. Further to that, I want to confirm that my expectation of PricewaterhouseCoopers as an independent, reputable, external auditing firm includ es that their investigation and report includes all of the matters that they consider relevant to this issue. AGRICULTURAL LAND RESERVE REGULATIONS L. Krog: We are learning more each day about the business activities of the former Solicitor General and his friends.

It is alleged they were skirting the ALR rules. It is the Minister of Agriculture who is responsible for the policies of the ALR. So to the minister, very simply: what is he actually doing to protect the ALR lands from being subdivided into two-acre estates? Hon. M. de Jong: The member, as critic, knows that this is a matter that is being investigated. He knows full well what the advice from the criminal justice branch has been about th e appropriateness of com- menting during that period. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. L.

Krog: Perhaps the minister wasn't listening to the question — not an unusual occurrence in this House. This is about people skirting the rules. You don't even have to get this land excluded from the ALR. The minister has the public trust for a cherished B.C. institution. So what steps is he taking to stop the avoidance of the ALR rules? Hon. M. de Jong: I'll again refer the member to the statement from the criminal justice branch dated March 28, 2008, and quote the final paragraph… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Continue. Hon.

M. de Jong: …referring to the subject matter of the release: "As this matt er is currently with the

10890 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 special prosecutor, it would not be appropriate to com- ment any further at this time." WILD SALMON FISHERY S. Fraser: According to the member for Nanaimo- Parksville, not only is this government not going to im- plement the Aquaculture Committee's recommenda- tions, but suggested that B.C. would be better off ending the commercial wild fishery.

Instead of protecting wild salmon from fish farms, th e member said that people who want to save wild salmon should "stop hunting them commercially as food." My question is a simple on e to the Minister of Agri- culture. Is it his government's policy or plan to bring an end to the commercial fishery in favour of fish farms? Hon. P. Bell: The member opposite should full well know that fisheries licensing issues as they relate to wild salmon are the responsibility of the federal government. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Member has a supplemental. S. Fraser: I'm going to try one, hon. Speaker.

That's like a "before the courts" kind of answer. [1420] We've got a bunch of co ntradictions here. The minister has a responsibility in this province also to protect wild salmon. There's a contradiction here that's following contradiction. The minister, just a few weeks ago, said no fallowing in the Broughton to pro- tect the salmon. Instead, use neurotoxins, which I'm sure will please our guests here today. Now we have the vice-Chair of the Sustainable Aquaculture Com- mittee stating that fish farms should be given priority over wild fisheries.

Again, to the minister: will he deno unce those statements from the vice-Chair of the Sustainable Aquaculture Committee, or is his government indeed planning on a closure of the commercial fisheries in this province? Hon. P. Bell: The member's first question was whether or not we were going to close the commercial fishery, which is clearly the responsibility of the federal government. Let me talk about the aquaculture plan that we are in the process of developing with the First Nations Leadership Council. Everything is on the table of this aquaculture plan. We are working closely with the first nations community.

There is a good relationship developing. We think there is a future for a compre- hensive plan that is done in a collaborative way with first nations. I might add that members on that side of the House are only interested in one th ing. It's their way or the highway. This government is going to work with first nations to have a plan that makes sense for all British Columbians. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. NON-ESSENTIAL PESTICIDE USE G. Robertson: I'll leave the fishy business aside and get straight to the issue of cancer.

Today the Canadian Cancer Society released polling that shows that three- quarters of people in B.C. support this government passing legislation to restrict the use and sale of cosmetic pesti- cides. Some 6,000 Canadians will be acutely poisoned by pesticides this year, half of them under the age of six. The impacts of chronic exposure are even more tragic. Over 130 municipalities across this country have responded and passed bylaws banning non-essential pesticide use. In B.C. we have no meaningful provincial legislation to protect children from toxins like deadly pesticides.

Will the Minister of Health stand up for the health of our children and support a ban on the cosmetic uses of pesticides provincewide? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Hon. B. Penner: Twice in one session. Yesterday Ministry of Environment staff had a chance to meet with representatives of the Canadian Cancer Society, and I also ha d a chance to drop in on that meeting. We had a good discussion, and it wasn't our first one. Ministry staff have been working on this issue for quite some time.

The member needs to know that pesticides that are used in British Columbia can only be used if they've first been approved and registered by Health Canada, who have experts on staff that analyze these things. We have requested that Health Canada review…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Minister, just take your seat for a second. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Continue, Minister. Hon. B. Penner: Perhaps I, more than most people, think that cancer is a serious issue, so I hope that mem- bers will refrain from heckling.

We have requested that Health Canada review whether the use of herbicide fertilizer lawn products should be discontinued. In addition, in 2005 we en- acted the new Integrated Pest Management Act, along with regulations that encour age the use of alternatives

THURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10891 to pesticides. For the first time it also requires notifica- tion and consent from individuals before pesticides can be used around their prop erty. In addition, it also requires notification to sch ools before those substances can be used. We've done a lot of things that the NDP didn't think about doing during their ten years in government. My staff are continuing to work with Health Canada to look for even more protections for British Columbians. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members.

The member has a supplemental. [1425] LABELLING FOR PRODUCTS CONTAINING TOXIC SUBSTANCES G. Robertson: The Canadian Cancer Society's poll also showed that an astounding 97 percent of British Columbians would support legislation that requires labelling of all products that contain carcinogens. These right-to-know laws are now common in Europe and being worked on and developed in Ontario and Quebec. The Premier said this morning at breakfast that f i g h t i n g c a n c e r i s n o t a p a r t i s a n i s s u e .

I n t h a t s a m e spirit, I introduced comprehensive legislation last fall to regulate toxins and mandate clear labelling in British Columbia. Citizens want action. Will the Minister of Health agree to support legisla- tion that regulates toxins and right-to-know labelling this month? Hon. B. Penner: As I said, the Ministry of Envi- ronment staff have been working with the Canadian Cancer Society and with their counterparts across Can- ada on a whole range of issues dealing with pesticides and also toxics.

Here in British Columbia the ministry has already put in place a number of regulations to curtail the hazards that are faced by individuals when it comes to toxics, such as the hazardous waste regula- tion, the contaminated sites regulation, the organic material recycling regulation and various codes of practice that our governme nt has implemented under the Environmental Management Act. I accept that there's always more that we can con- sider doing, because we always are looking for the best available science.

Ministry staff have been directed by me to gather up that science from across Canada — I understand that there have been some initiatives un- dertaken in Quebec recently — and those things are being considered. PROPOSED POWER PROJECT FOR CASCADE FALLS K. Conroy: For over 15 years the community of Christina Lake has said no to the development of Cascade Falls. Thousands of citizens from the region have said no. The local municipalities have said no. The regional districts have said no. The chambers of commerce have said no. What did this Minister of Environment do? He ignored all those voices from that region.

To the minister. We'd like to know: what does it take nowadays to get a private power project cancelled? Does it have to be close to the Lower Mainland, not near rural British Columbia? Does it have to be near the mainstream media? Or perhaps it's a thousand people close to the minister's own constituency a year away from an election. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. B. Penner: The member should know that that project went through a fulsome environmental assessment review. In fact, it went on for more than a decade. I think it was the longest…. K. Conroy: Fifteen years. Hon. B.

Penner: Fifteen years, the member says. It could be that long. It was a very extensive environmental review. In fact, at the end of the day, I received a letter from the Washington State Department of Ecology saying that they don't have concerns for the fisheries. In fact, they think that project could result in a benefit, and it met all of our standards. Here's what's interesting to note, Mr. Speaker. The current incarnation…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Do you want to finish, Minister? Hon. B.

Penner: It didn't just pass approval from Canadian and British Columbian regulatory authorities like the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and through the Canadian environmental assessment proc- ess and those federal agencies, but it also had support from our colleagues south of the border. What's absolutely shocking is how, when British Columbia has become a net importer of electricity be- cause of their inaction during the 1990s, they would r a t h e r u s c o n t i n u e t o i m p o r t p o w e r f r o m c o a l - f i r e d plants in Washington… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. B.

Penner: …and in Alberta and in Montana, supporting American and Al bertan IPPs instead of Canadian ones.

10892 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 Now, here's what's different. I'll conclude very quickly. Who said this? Interjections. Hon. B. Penner: We'll see if they'll be as enthusias- tic when they hear this. "On the issue of markets…." Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Do you want to finish, Minister? [1430] Hon. B. Penner: I'll quote. "On the issue of the markets, we're moving to a more open market. The generation is now becoming a competitive generat- ing market. In terms of th e business plans, it's not the government that's buildin g the plant; it's an in- dependent power producer.

In fact, on the RFP there were 47 different projects that came in to be able to construct an IPP, and it was on a competitive basis." So that's what's taking pl ace. That's the Opposition House Leader that said that in 1998. The NDP's Oppo- sition House Leader said that. [End of question period.] Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. C. Trevena: I seek leave to make an introduction. Leave granted. Introductions by Members C. Trevena: Mr. Speaker, watching question period has been a group of grade 6, 7 and 8s from Linnaea School on Cortes Island.

The older students were warn- ing the younger students that they might not believe the behaviour, and I think we've lived up to that. The students are on tour in this place. They come down annually. Today the grade 6, 7 and 8s students are here with Donna Bracewell and Sabina Leader-Mense, and I hope the House will make them very welcome. Tabling Documents Hon. T. Christensen: I a m v e r y p l e a s e d t o t a b l e a document intituled the capital project plan for the inte- grated case management project. Petitions N.

Simons: I am pleased to present a petition from over 675 residents of the Powell River area asking for a moratorium on ferry fare increases. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: In this chamber I call continued second reading debate on Bill 15, Utilities Commission Amendment Act, 2008, and in

Section A, continued estimates debate — for the information of members, the estimates of the Ministry of Advanced Education. Second Reading of Bills UTILITIES COMMISSION AMENDMENT ACT, 2008 (continued) B. Lekstrom: Just before the break at lunch I began speaking in my support of Bill 15, and that is the Utilities Commission Amendment Act. I had heard a great deal of response at second reading from the opposition, and as I indicated earlier, I was a little bit surprised at some of what I heard. I thought, as I indicated before lunch, that they were speaking about a different bill.

I heard things ranging from hos- pitals and schools and roads, so I was a little surprised. As I said earlier, I went back and rechecked to make sure that Bill 15 really was the Utilities Commission Amendment Act, and it was. [S. Hammell in the chair.] This bill is about a lot of things, and it's about something that is good for British Columbia. I want to reiterate what I began. It's about the government's en- ergy objectives. I heard a lot of people, and I'm having to believe that the opposition is opposing this bill, but we'll see during the vote. Our energy objectives…. This bill lays out what we want.

I'll just point out a couple of those: to encourage public utilities to reduce greenhouse gas emissions — a pretty good objective; to encourage public utilities to take demand-side measures — another very good move; to encourage public utilities to produce, gener- ate and acquire electricity from clean or renewable sources. Those are just a few of the actions of this bill. So to hear that people believe the end of the world is about to happen if this bill passes surprises me. It sur- prises me in a way…. Possibly they didn't read the bill. I'm not sure.

Maybe they read a different bill and have misinterpreted it to be Bill 15. I also heard many of them talk about the great leg- acy of W.A.C. Bennett, and I support that legacy. Much of it is in my area. The W.A.C. Bennett dam is, I be- lieve, one of the great hydroelectric projects that this province has ever seen, and the Peace Canyon dam that followed. [1435] But I have to believe, in hearing the support that I heard for W.A.C. Bennett from the opposition…. Yes, people have to believe me. That's what was said. They supported what W.A.C. Bennett did, the legacy he had with B.C.

Hydro and his vision, and I support that. I have to believe that they support the development of

THURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10893 Site C, and I want to thank the opposition for that. That is certainly something that is under discussion at the present time. There is a great deal of interest, and it's going to carry on for some time. The member for Yale-Lillooet surprised me. He's a person that I would call a friend. He obviously sees politics a little differently than me, but he jumped up and was railing on — I believe there was the word "cowardly"; possibly I misunderstood him — about what we were doing to sell out British Columbians with this bill.

This is a gentleman that wouldn't show up for a vote, and I was a little surprised. So friend or not, I think you've got to be careful who you speak to and how you speak when you don't have the conviction to stand up for what's right in this chamber. There's also, under

section 58 of the bill…. I know we'll get into it at committee stage.

Section 58 actually deals with the rate rebalancing.

Section 58 is actually going to save British Columbians from an 11 percent rate hike. That's what the opposition is opposing, and for the life of me, I'm not sure why. I look forward to hearing at committee stage under

section 58 why they would oppose that. An 11 percent increase is what you're saying that you want British Columbians to have. So I do look forward to that and am going to, I guess with great interest, hear what they have to say. Also, the talk about power. I think it's accepted that we need to produce more power. I also am somewhat surprised that there seems to be opposition to self- sufficiency. I think there is a need to be self-sufficient in British Columbia. I understand when you talk about buying and being able to buy power on the open mar- ket.

We do it now, and we do it very effectively to the benefit of British Columbians. But ask yourself this question, whether you're a British Columbian watching today, whether you're a member of the opposition or a member of our govern- ment. The question I ask myself is: what takes place when that power isn't available on the open market? Do we turn our lights out here in British Columbia because we didn't plan and look to the future in order to be self-sufficient? I would hope we never, ever put ourselves in that situation.

The ability to become self-sufficient in power pro- duction and meet our own ne eds is fundamental to the well-being of every British Columbian. I look forward to meeting that. It's actually a sad day for British Co- lumbia to realize that we aren't self-sufficient in the production of our own power needs here. Now I do know — and I know that it's obviously for political reasons, I have to believe — that people are jumping up and rallying against Bill 15. That's what we do here.

I do want to point out that the last major de- velopment of a power production facility, by the New Democrats in the mid-1990s, was Pakistan. Pakistan. I have to ask myself why. I don't think it got off the ground, but I can tell you there were tens of millions of dollars — millions of taxpayers' dollars, and British Columbians that funded that. So I have to actually kind of wonder what's going away. Giving away ownership of the rivers. I've heard that from virtually every speaker on the opposition side. Giving away ownership of our rivers. That's non- sense. It's misleading the public.

It's actually not telling the truth. There's no selling of rivers here. I'm sure you're aware of water licences. Deputy Speaker: Member, we are very careful in our language around truthfulness and issues like that, so be careful. B. Lekstrom: Okay, but I do believe it isn't truthful to say we're selling the rivers, Madam Speaker, and that's factual. Deputy Speaker: Well, Member, you can't say it. B. Lekstrom: We're not selling rivers, Madam Speaker. There are water licences. That's what they're called. I'll carry on. The issue of ownership of these rivers is always in the hands of the public — always.

What we have is…. Again, I look forward to the debate at committee stage. I have to believe that the opposition opposes any water licence in this province. God help our agricultural community if that's the case that the opposition stands on. God help them. The issue of Bill 15…. I'm not going to take a great deal of time, because I do look forward to committee stage on this. I do hope to hear some of the reasons that will back up second reading debate here. [1440] This is a good bill. It isn't about IPPs. It's about the Utilities Commission Amendment Act. I do want to lay that out.

It lays it out, and I encourage British Columbi- ans — the people listening today and the ones that may see a rerun of this — that you don't have to take my word. You don't have to take the word of the opposition. I encourage you to pick up the bill. Read the bill and make up your mind for yourself. If you have questions, contact your MLA. Contact people in the know. But I encourage you. Read the bill. That's what it's all about. So to sum up, and I'll close… There is no selling of any rivers in British Columbia as you heard.

There are water licenses that will go on, and hopefully the oppo- sition would support water licenses. Self-sufficiency is something I would hope we wo uld all strive for, every one of us, because the day w ill be there when the open market doesn't have power for us to buy, and if that happens, I have to believe that everyone in this room wants to ensure that the pe ople that call themselves British Columbians and live here have power to meet their needs. The rate rebalancing under

section 58, I hope that…. Again, I'll have to wait until I see the vote, but if the opposition votes against this, they're saying they want to increase the resident ial rates in this province by 11 percent. That's not working on behalf of British Columbians. I'll close by saying that I wholeheartedly support Bill 15. I support the ability for our province to once again be self-sufficient in power. I support the impact

10894 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 that this bill will have. I certainly support encouraging public utilities to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, encouraging public utilities to produce, generate and acquire electricity from clean or renewable resources. I encourage what this bill does, and I encourage all members of this House to support this bill. Deputy Speaker: Minister, you're closing debate. Hon. R. Neufeld: I will close debate on second reading of the Utilities Commission Amendment Act, 2008. I was going to do a rela tively short closing.

When we first talked about this b ill in the House, there were going to be four speakers, and we were going to actu- ally look at it objectively. After listening all yesterday afternoon and this morn- ing to things that my colleague from Peace River South just talked about that…. Members of the opposition talk about: "This is selling B.C. Hy dro. It's selling rivers. It's privatizing B.C. Hydro. It's privatizing BCTC." None of those names or any of that is in this bill. I've been here long enough to know that we can get pretty wide-ranging, and I accept that.

That's part of the debate in this House, but I think it's also…. I think, as members of the Legislature, we can do that wide- ranging debate, but I would hope that in most cases people would read the legislation, understand it to the degree that they can and speak to those points, and be wide-ranging about what they think about their policies. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] You know, the NDP could maybe lay out for us what they think an energy policy should be. I've been here since 1991.

I've never heard of an energy policy from the NDP, but yesterda y afternoon and this morn- ing I listened to a wide-ranging debate of almost every- thing that you can imagine, to even logs — dealing with, I don't know, timber. I don't see anything in the bill, the Utilities Commission Amendment Act, that deals with logs. Nothing. I don't see anything in the legislation that deals with selling anything. The Utilities Commission Act is there to actually regulate utilities. I know my critic, the member oppo- site, understands that.

He's been around this House for a long time, working for the NDP prior to us becoming government. So I know he understands that. To stand here in the Ho use and talk about things that I heard from some of the members about what this bill is about — and trying to actually, I think, instil some fear in people about what the Utilities Commis- sion Act is all about — is probably a bit unfair. [1445] I agree with wide-ranging debate. The member for Yale-Lillooet….

It's always interesting when the mem- ber for Yale-Lillooet gets up and speaks, because he is a little bit shy on some of the knowledge, obviously, about this bill, but he never passes up the opportunity to actually attack me. It's always interesting. I'm used to it. I've got pretty thick skin by now. I've been here for quite a while. I've been here since 1991. Those personal attacks on me aren't required in this room . I'm as proud today to be an MLA, a B.C. Liberal MLA, as I was proud to be a Socred MLA in the early 1990s.

When the member for Yale-Lillooet says that I don't stand up for people, I want to tell you: I do have the gonads to stand up and vote. I have stood up in this House. I have never backed down from an issue, ever. I have seen that member run, tail between his legs, back to Yale-Lillooet when we actually brought a pension bill in here that he didn't have the courage to stand up and vote about. I stood here in the mid-1990s when that kind of thing was cancelled. I stood and voted. I stood and voted on things that were difficult for me to vote for or against.

I can tell you that sometimes I voted with the NDP because they did have some good ideas once in a while, and I actually voted with them. But to constantly listen to that barrage is just a little bit too much. I don't need that. The people don't need that. It's got nothing to do with the bill. Talk about doing things? There was hardly a dollar spent on roads in northeastern British Columbia until this guy came to the room. We hardly had any money spent in northeastern British Columbia on roads. We had hardly anything spent on generation in the prov- ince. We had nothing spent on hospitals or seniors.

That member should know. Today we're going to build a brand new hospital in Fort St. John. We're building for seniors in Fort St. John, and we're doing that because the province is doing well. This government is looking after the store to make sure, with this B.C. Utilities Commission Act, that we move forward, that we have enough electricity in the province to meet our needs. I'm not shy to say that. I have heard speaker after speaker stand and say that this is not in the public interest. Let me read a little bit of the bill. All th is does is amend the act to put in sections of the energy plan so that the B.C.

Utilities Commission actually knows what they have to look at. So let me read it. It's "to encourage public utilities to reduce greenhouse gas emissions." Is that not in the pub- lic interest? I guess it's only this side of the House that thinks that's in the public interest. That side of the House…. I can only assume — when they're going to vote against it; they all spoke against it; no one spoke in favour of it — that they don't believe that it's in the pub- lic interest to actually reduce greenhouse gas emissions. It's "to encourage public utilities to make demand- side measures." That's to curb use.

I heard everybody on that side of the House and the opposition speak against it. I think that's in the public interest. I think t h a t w e o u g h t t o b e a b l e t o l o o k a t h o w w e u s e o u r electricity and how carefully we should use our elec- tricity and our natural gas, and our public utilities ought to be able to do that. It also says: "…to encourage public utilities to pro- duce, generate and acquire electricity from clean or renewable sources." That's not in the public interest? I guess in the NDP mantra, in the socialist world, it's not.

THURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10895 In my world it is. In the government's world, it is im- portant that we do those things. Next, it's "to encourage public utilities to develop adequate electricity transmission infrastructure and capacity in the time required to serve persons who re- ceive or may receive service from a public utility." My goodness, how can that not be in the public interest? [1450] I guess that only the opposition would think that's not in the public interest. I can't imagine that…. Shouldn't we plan? I know they ran pillar to post dur- ing the 1990s.

I know they we ren't sure where to build or not to build. I know they went to Pakistan thinking they were building, I guess, for people in British Co- lumbia — because they built a plant in Pakistan. I don't know. But to me it's important. Planning is important. I think the public tells us that we better plan. We look at our budgets three years out. The Minis- ter of Finance has that all figured out for us — how we're going to actually m eet and stay within our budget limits. I think that's important. I guess the NDP doesn't think it's important.

Hey, to encourage public utilities to use innova- tive energy technology that facilitates electricity self- sufficiency or the fulfilment of their long-term transmis- sion requirements or that supports energy conservation or efficiency or the use of clean or renewable sources of energy…. I think there was one member who talked about conservation on that side of the House. No one over on that side of the House thinks we should have any conservation. Interjection. Hon. R. Neufeld: I heard the critic actually say that's not true.

Well, let me take him back to the 1990s when they cancelled out th e Power Smart program in B.C. Hydro. Interjection. Hon. R. Neufeld: They did. They cancelled it. You were there. I know. I have the number s. The smart ones from the NDP actually cancelle d the Power Smart program within B.C. Hydro because they don't care about con- servation. None of them spoke about conservation. I think it's important for British Columbians to con- serve energy and to encourage public utilities to take prescribed actions in support of any other goals pre- scribed by regulation. That's wh at the bill is about.

It's not about selling B.C. Hydro. As I recall…. I've been in this House long enough to know that it was the NDP that actually had a discussion at one of their party meetings that we got notes from that talked about selling B.C. Rail, B.C. Hydro, ICBC — all of them. If there was anybody in this House that was going to sell B.C. Hydro, it was the members opposite. I remember clearly that there was a piece of legisla- tion here in this House that would have allowed it — while the NDP were here, during the 1990s. I took a stand. This government took a stand.

We brought that bill to the House and said: "You can't sell B.C. Hydro. You cannot sell BCTC. In fact , they will remain in the public realm." We put a bill in place that actually said that. The NDP had a bill where they could have moved it out without even coming to the House, and they darn near did. If anybody was looking at selling B.C. Hydro, it was the NDP, so it's interesting to listen to the members opposite talk about this bill. Let's look at rate rebalancing. I know the member for Peace River South actually left….

I hope that after reading those first ones and talking about the public interest, we'll actually have the NDP get up and say: "You know what? It's not that bad a bill. It actually makes sense. It is in the public interest, and I better vote for it." I hope that takes place. I hope there's a moment…. Maybe they forget their socialist roots and come forward and say: "You know what? We think this bill is actually a good bill." If they vote against it, th ey're actually voting for an increase to residential rates of 11 percent. That's what they're doing.

They all talked about rates here a bit, but that's what they're doing. They'd be voting for a rate increase. Not only that. For irrigation for farmers…. Listening to the NDP talk about how they're the de- fenders of the farm community — my goodness — and they're great stewards of the land and everything…. There would have been a 20 percent increase to those farmers that irrigate their land if we had not stopped that rate rebalancing. [1455] The whole works of you across the way all say you're going to vote against the bill. So you're in favour of increasing to farmers 20 percent.

You're in favour of increasing to the residential 11 percent. You don't care. You never cared before. I don't imagine why you should start caring now. It was interesting. I also heard a little bit of stuff about smart meters. In fact, the critic across the way called them a gimmick. What a term. Then, of course, his colleagues who hadn't read the bill were actually reading from the Blues — I saw that this morning — so that they could make their speech. I appreciate that, so they could actually reiterate what somebody else said that they think was classic.

Great thinkers really think on their feet and really get at her and understand what an amendment to the Utilities Commission Act is. Smart meters. You know, almost every jurisdiction in the world is actually putting them in now, has had them for a while. We're actually a bit behind. I guess the members want to go back to the 17th and 18th centuries. I don't know. The Stone Age, the Dark Age. I'm not sure. You know, there's new technology out there. There's new technology. You should embrace some of that. Actually, some of that technology is here in British Columbia.

Why aren't you proud about the technology that's developed in British Columbia — the people that have jobs doing those kinds of things? Why don't you actually say: "Wow. We co uld lead the world"? Under this government, we could. Under your government,

10896 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 we'd go back to the 17th century, I guess, because they think they're a gimmick. But whether you're in Europe, where the price of electricity is sometimes five times as high as it is here, they're actually using smart meters. The member for Surrey-Whalley, who is sitting in the back corner over there, says: "That's where we want to take British Columbia." That's entirely incorrect. His whole speech was entirely incorrect. Mr. Speaker: Minister, don't refer to people — whether they're in or out of the House please. Hon. R. Neufeld: Oh, I'm sorry.

I think members have to be in their seat to heckle too. Right, Mr. Speaker? Would that be correct? We'll get back to smart meters. Jurisdictions from all over the world are doing this. In Europe smart meters actually…. I understand that the NDP has trouble keeping up to this, but Hydro has been doing a program of smart meters for a couple of years. They've been testing them across the province, even on Vancouver Island. The critic ought to know that. They're doing it on Vancouver Island. In fact, I think Campbell River won last year. I don't know…. That's a little bit further north from where the member lives.

But he ought to know. In the process, Campbell River, I think, won. Fort St. John actually came in a very close second in conserving energy on peak, and that's what we're trying to do. So when you look at smart meters, what people can do in their homes is actually see how much electricity they're drawing and when th ey're drawing it. If you can move electricity from on peak to off peak, you don't have to build so much generation. Right now we have to build ten to 15 percent over and above peak. If we can move some of that off peak, that means we have to use less electricity.

That's what a smart meter is all about. That's showing people to use electricity a little bit wiser, to think about it in a differ- ent way, not the old way that the NDP have — that we just have oodles and tons of electricity; just use what- ever you want, wherever you want, how much you want and just carry on. That was the old way. That was the 17th-century way. Get into the new world, folks. There is a new world out there. There's a different way of doing things, and you can actually manage your electricity demand a lot better. My home is on that syst em, on peak and off peak.

You pay more for electricity on peak than off peak. Let me tell you, it sends a message to you. Turn the lights off when you leave the room. Unplug what you're not using. Do those kinds of things. [1500] It's always good to hear the member opposite, my critic, talk about wanting to go back to the dark ages. But there is a new age, and there's a new way of doing things. I know that the ND P are not keen about doing anything in the new way. Th ey'd rather stay with the old way. Let's talk a little bit, because this is part of the bill too, about sustainability. The interesting

part is that I had heard from all the members across the way — I guess it was because it was started from the critic — that we shouldn't be self-su fficient. That's exactly what he said. In fact, you know, he said it's lunacy. This is his word; it's not mine. The critic said it's lunacy to be self-sufficient. Can you im agine anything more loony than not being self-sufficient? The public understands that we should be self- sufficient. The public understands it. Fred and Martha, who haven't even had a chance to read this bill, under- stand it.

But for the NDP with their old socialist ways, it's: "We don't want any new technology. We don't want to curb greenhouse gases. We don't want to look at conservation. We just want to continue to pollute and run all over the land." That's the good old Karl Marx way. They're right on tap; they're working. It's called the flat earth society. It's amazing that someon e in this House should stand up and say we shouldn't have enough electricity in the province of British Columbia to keep these lights on — our lights in our house and all the things that we depend on with electricity. That is lunacy.

I can't imag- ine how someone can think we shouldn't have enough electricity in the province of British Columbia to actually meet our needs. Why in the world wouldn't we do that? They also waxed on about W.A.C. Bennett and building the dams and how great that was, and it is. We have a system that is second to none in North America, a system that we'r e proud of. I just wish the opposition would start being proud of it.

I wish they'd start thinking about how good a system this is and how we should maintain it and how we have to build more generation in the province of British Columbia to meet the needs of British Columbians well into the future. I just wish that little pearl would come out and that people over on that side of the House would actually say: "You know what? I think we should have enough electricity in British Columbia to keep our lights on." So w h a t w e d o t o a c t u a l l y d o t h a t i s b u i l d g e n e r a t i o n i n the province of British Columbia. I don't know. They're even against that.

You don't even want to build genera- tion in British Columbia. You know, it's just amazing. What you say is: "Well, we're hooked into a North American grid, and we're on a market system." No, we're not on a market system, but we buy and sell into a market system. We're on a cost-base system, and that's good enough. We should c o n t i n u e t o b u y f r o m A l b e r t a . W e s h o u l d c o n t i n u e t o buy from south of the border, the United States.

As our needs continue to grow and we get shorter and shorter and shorter of electricity, we should be okay with that because — you know what? — someone else is going to build it for me. That's their thought process. There they are saying how terrible private power developers are. Every one of them stood up and trashed every private sector thing that's happened in the province of British Columbia through their talk. I know they hate the privat e sector. I know they don't want business. I know what happened in British

THURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10897 Columbia in the '90s. I watched as companies that started their business in no rtheastern British Columbia actually left B.C. and went to Alberta. [1505] And you know what? We'll ge t that back, if you ever elect this group across the way again. It will happen again. They'll leave quicker than you can imagine. The wealth and the jobs and all of those kinds of things that we enjoy in the province of British Columbia — record spending on health and education and social services — will be once again gone. They'll be once again gone.

I just can't for the life of me understand how you would not want to actually have the generation in B.C., the jobs, the investment. The people across the prov- ince of British Columbia — actually, they're proud of it. The people in British Columbia are proud of our gen- eration capability. They're proud of B.C. Hydro. What we find from the ND P is that they're against it. So if you want to be dependent on the United States, you guys go ahead. Nothing wrong with the United States, but you can be dependent on them. Be dependent on them for whatever you want.

But I'll tell you, Fred and Martha actually want us to have enough electricity in the province of British Co- lumbia to keep their lights on. This government, on this side of the House, will make darn sure that takes place. Where I come from, 33 percent of electricity is gen- erated in the province of British Columbia — B.C. Hy- dro, I should say. When all those large dams were built, we couldn't consume all that energy. We had a huge excess of electricity. We sold it to the Americans in long term. It was a great deal, and I know the mem- bers actually supported that.

They said: "That's great." But what really confuses me is that back then, when we had a huge excess of electricity, the NDP supported it. But today we're short of electricity. We're actually net importers of electricity. They say: "We're okay with that. We shouldn't build an ymore in the province of British Columbia." Well, they talked about selling electricity as apples. "If you can sell lots of apples," I think one of the mem- ber says, "what's the matter with doing that?" I say the same thing. What in the world is the matter with doing that?

Why don't we build some more generation in the province of British Columbia so that we can sell it? You know, in the 1990s the NDP built only about 11 percent of generation in th e province. They actually built one in Pakistan, but in the province of British Co- lumbia, for British Columbians, they only built 11 per- cent of what we needed for growth. Is it any wonder that today we're short? These numbers come from and are verified by the B.C. Utilities Commission. These numbers are verified by B.C. Hydro. They put th em forward, not me. They do it through an integrated electricity plan. The B.C.

Utilities Commission reviews that to make sure those things are right, and they are right. But in 2001 we were short 1,993 gigawatt hours of electricity. Multiplying that by a hundred tells you how many average houses you can actually light up. In 2002 we were short 5,238 gigawatt hours. In 2003 we were short 1,754 gigawatt hours. In 2004 we were short 5,118 gi- gawatt hours. In '05 we were short 7,381 gigawatt hours. In 2006, 4,352 gigawatt hours — and they're okay with that. So 4,352 — let me put this in context a bit for the NDP, but also for Fred and Martha. Interjection. Hon. R.

Neufeld: Yeah, you wouldn't know anything about Fred and Martha. They're the taxpayers of the prov- ince of British Columbia. You never did care about them. Interjections. Hon. R. Neufeld: I'm a Fred. So let me put this in context. A Site C — one day they're for it; one day they're against it. You never know. The leader says one thing, someone else says another, and someone else says another. But a Site C would produce 4,600 gigawatt hours. We need 30,000 gigawatt hours in the next 25 years to meet load demand. And you know what? Today we consume 55,000 gigawatt hours, and the NDP say, "Don't worry about it.

Don't build anything. We'll be okay. We'll just depend on the market south of us, and we'll depend on the market in Alberta" — until Alberta started talking about building a nuclear plant. Then the Leader of the Opposition wrote me a letter and said: "You better oppose that." [1510] You know, everyone around us is building new generation because they're consuming more. The popu- lation is growing — surprise, surprise folks. We should actually have enough electricity in the province of Brit- ish Columbia to meet our own needs.

I mean, it got crazy enough that we had members starting to talk about deals with Enron and with Alcan. You know that the only grou p in this House that sold to Enron was the NDP, when they were in power. That was the only group that sold to Enron in this House. They're up there talking about how terrible it is. You know what? They were great at selling electric- ity; they sold lots of it. They just couldn't collect for it. You know, we're still owed $300 million U.S. for elec- tricity that was sold in the 1990s by that group of finan- cial wizards across the way. The whole works of them are so smart.

They can sell it, but they can't collect. The whole works of them are that bad. W.A.C. Bennett said they…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Hon. R. Neufeld: W.A.C. Bennett said they couldn't run a popcorn stand, and nothing could be more truthful. I w a n t t o r e a d w h a t m y c r i t i c s a i d a b o u t s e l f - sufficiency, the notion that self-sufficiency is a priority. This is a quote from my critic, on the fifth of October of '07. "My parents grew up in the Depression. My mom

10898 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 taught me to take care of myself. Make sure you've got enough stuff in the larder, and that sort of thing." I think in his heart he knows that. I think he's been taught that, and I think he'll stand up and vote for this because he knows it's the right thing to do to be self- sufficient in the province of British Columbia. The list goes on and on. I mean, we have…. Mr. Speaker: Minister, your time is up. Hon. R. Neufeld: I'm sorry. I just have so much to say, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Could you put the question on sec- ond reading. Hon. R.

Neufeld: I move second reading. [1515] Second reading of Bill 15 approved on the following division: YEAS — 37 Falcon Coell Ilich Chong Christensen Bell van Dongen Roddick Hayer Lee Jarvis Nuraney Whittred Cantelon Thorpe Hagen de Jong Taylor Bond Hansen Abbott Penner Neufeld Coleman Hogg Sultan Bennett Lekstrom Mayencourt Polak Hawes Yap Bloy MacKay Black McIntyre Rustad NAYS — 23 Brar S. Simpson Fleming Kwan Ralston Hammell Coons Simons Puchmayr Routley Fraser Horgan Lali Dix Trevena Bains Robertson Karagianis Krog Austin Wyse Sather Conroy Hon. R.

Neufeld: I move that the bill be referred to the Committee of the Whole House for the next sitting after today. [1520] Bill 15, Utilities Commission Amendment Act, 2008, read a second time and referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Hon. T. Christensen: I call committee stage on Bill 11, the Small Business and Revenue Statutes Amendment Act, 2008. Committee of the Whole House SMALL BUSINESS AND REVENUE STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2008 The House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill 11; S. Hammell in the chair. The committee met at 3:23 p.m. On

section 1. J. Brar: This bill talks about a lot of housekeeping items, but for your referenc e, Madam Chair, I do have questions on sections 1, 2, 4, 10, 12 and 14. My col- leagues may have questions on other sections as well. Just for the information of the Chair, I have questions on those sections. The first one I would like to ask the minister to clarify, if the minister can provide a clarification on

section 1, is about the assessment roll number — what it means and if there's any example that the minister can provide. Hon. R. Thorpe: I'm advised that it is a number on the roll that will identify and designate the properties that will fall under this area. J. Brar: I understand that piece, because that's written in the piece of proposed legislation. [1525] Can the minister provide any example of a particular roll number so that a common person can understand what it means? Hon. R.

Thorpe: It will be an identifier that will be used to identify a particular individual piece of property that will have been identified as a result of regulations that this type of property will fall under. J. Brar: Thanks to the minister once again. Does that mean that every property in the province will have an assessment roll number? Hon. R. Thorpe: Yes.

Section 1 approved. On

section 2. J. Brar:

Section 2 actually adds four different defini- tions in this section, which include accommodation unit, eligible supportive housing property, leasehold accommodation property and leasehold unit. My first

THURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10899 question to the minister is: can the minister tell us what is the purpose of adding these

definitions? Hon. R. Thorpe: I t ' s s o t h a t w e c a n i d e n t i f y , b y definition, which pertains to each piece of property. J. Brar: Can the minister explain what difference it is going to make, as compared to the current situation we are in, and when these

definitions will be implemented? Hon. R. Thorpe: The first definition, the eligible supportive housing property, will be identified and defined by order-in-council. That will flow through my ministry as we are responsible for B.C. Assessment. We will receive the definition of eligible supportive hous- ing from the Ministry Responsible for Housing, and then because we administer working with B.C. As- sessment — we have the ministerial responsibilities — that will flow through on an order-in-council. With respect to the leasehold, the next three items.… They are

definitions that are used for split-class-property identification. Split-class-property identification is split b a s e d o n u s a g e , v e r y s i m i l a r t o w h a t w e ' v e d o n e w i t h strata properties when we made amendments to the Assessment Act. I believe it was last spring. [1530] J. Brar: To make my question probably more clear, this act proposed to amend and add four new defini- tions. Can the minister clarify as to what

definitions we have today and how these new

definitions are going to make a difference? [K. Whittred in the chair.] Hon. R. Thorpe: First of all, all four

definitions are new. The supportive housing definition is new because our government, through our throne speech, had identi- fied the need and our positi on for supportive housing. Therefore, it is new. The other three are new because they relate to prop- erties very similar to strata properties that were defined in the amendments to the Assessment Act last year — strata properties and, quite frankly, the leased proper- ties. The leased properties were overlooked. They were overlooked when we made the changes. If they hadn't been overlooked last spring, they would have been in the

definitions and legislation of last spring. As we worked through the implementation, we were advised, I believe, both by B.C. Assessment and by the ministry that there had been an oversight, so this oversight we are correcting with these three defini- tion amendments that foll ow after this supportive housing property item. J. Brar: The minister is proposing now these new

definitions. I understand the intent is that these defini- tions are going to specifically create new categories and also clarify as per the properties concerned. But today or in the past there were units we can call accommoda- tion units. There were leasehold units as well. So in what category did they fall before this? That's my question. Hon. R. Thorpe: With respect to the leaseholds, they, like the other strata pr operties or a large percent- age of the strata properties, fell into class 6. Class 6 is business.

When we made the amendments last year to strata property, it was based on making a shift based on usage. Some of it could stay in class 6. Some of it could go to class 1. That's what we did in the spring with the amendments last year. What these

definitions now do with respect to leaseholds is provide the exact same treatment as the strata properties — the short-term overnight stays. They will now be split between business and residen- tial based on use, because quite frankly, it was over- looked when we did the amendments last spring. [1535] J. Brar: Thanks to the minister for clarification. When we talk about the accommodation units, two particular categories come to my mind: hotels and motels. Can the minister provide some sort of list of what other properties will fall under the accommodation units? Hon. R.

Thorpe: These are what we call — which I have learned they are called — short-term overnight ac- commodations, or in the industry, STOCAPs. Of course, there are always going to be exceptions, but for the most part, they find themselves in resort-type settings and have been a very important part of facilitating accommodation both for residents and for the tourism sector. What we did in the spring la st year and what this also accommodates with respect to the leaseholds…. If an indi- vidual has one of these properties, and they use it for a certain number of days, that information is then filtered through to B.C.

Assessment, and when it's used for per- sonal use, it will be deemed residential, which is class 1. When it is actually used for business purposes, tourism- attraction purposes, it's a commercial activity, and then it would be deemed to be in class 6 and be taxed accordingly. J. Brar: The eligible supportive housing property, as the proposed act defines, means somewhere where a person who receives housing funding from the gov- ernment lives. I understand that piece. My question is: will that designation be automatic, or will it be through a particular regulation from the cabinet or what authority? Hon. R.

Thorpe: It will be a specific regulation. That regulation will flow from our ministry through to order-in- council, but it will be based on the information we receive from the Minister/Ministry Responsible for Housing. They will bring forward from time to time what will be identified as supportive housing. Of course, that will evolve over time as the supportive housing approach is developed and expanded throughout Brit- ish Columbia to serve the needs that members on our side of the House, members on the other side of the House and municipal leader ship have identified as

10900 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008 a result of homelessness, those with addictions and those, perhaps, with physical disabilities and/or men- tal health concerns. J. Brar: I'm a little confused with the response, and I would certainly request a clarification from the minister.

As I understand from the explanation by the minister, it seems like this will be a process just within different minis- tries, identifying particularly the Ministry Responsible for Housing and the Ministry of Small Business and Revenue. [1540] My question is: is there any other additional process — any individual or any organization which received funding has to go through a process — whether it's a licensing process or requesting that property, based on this act, as designating supportive housing property? Hon. R.

Thorpe: I think it's important for us to know that — I will quote the throne speech of 2007 — "a new assessment class and new tax exemptions for small-unit, supportive housing will be developed over the next year for this Legislature's consideration." That supportive housing will not come through an application process, but it will become…. The recom- mendations and the policy responsibility will fall within the housing and policy branch of the Ministry of Forests and Range and the Ministry Responsible for Housing.

They will, through their policy, recognize suppor- tive housing such as properti es that are funded by one of several provincial housing program; have conditions for residency that may include or could include low income, mental or physical disabilities, drug or alcohol addiction and provide on-site supportive service; have self-contained housing units. At this point in time I think it's envisaged as, generally, no more than 450 square feet of floor space. That is generally where we are. That is what we believe will fulfil our commitment to British Columbians, as outlined in the throne speech of 2007. J.

Brar: My understanding, based on the response from the hon. minister, is that this is a process. When we talk about eligible supportive housing property, this is a process taking place within different ministries. In other words, that no individual or any organization is not part of that process when the government is going to define the eligible supportive housing property. That's my understanding from the response. This act suggests that the eligible supportive hous- ing property will be a pr operty where someone has received funding from the government.

So my question is: wherever somebody has re ceived funding, will that be automatically going thro ugh the ministry process and getting the designation, or is there any discretion- ary power with the ministry to say no? If that's the an- swer, what will that be? [1545] Hon. R. Thorpe: I think it's important to recognize that the criterion I outlined a little earlier is that the housing policy branch from the Ministry of Forests and Range responsible for housing recognizes supportive housing, and I've talked about that.

Right now, of course, we're trying to pass the legisla- tion so that we can then go forward through regulation with the policy developmen t of the housing branch — to bring that forward so that we can actually identify the one set of criteria. Th e preliminary work of the housing branch indicates that at the present time throughout the province of British Columbia there would be between 80 and 100 properties that would fall into this new supportive housing assessment class. Now, I gathered that the member is wondering why there is one branch of government looking after the policy.

The reason they 're doing that is because they are the Ministry Responsible for Housing. That's why they're doing that. We are the ministry responsible for the admini- strati

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0403pm 07
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0403pm 07
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	e59175464d5c1a0b3a74d2b3ecd6b606dcd17ac5

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