Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 4 (27th Legislature, 5th Session)

27-5-4

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2: 30 o'clock, Tuesday, February .8,1966. Opening Prayer by Madam Speaker MADAM SPEAKER: Presenting Petitions 81 MR JAMES COWAN, Q. C. (Winnipeg Centre): Madam Speaker, I beg to present the petition of the Community Chest of Greater Winnipeg, praying for the passing of

an Act res pecting the transfer of the assets of the Community Chest of Greater Winnipeg to the United Way of Greater Winnipeg. MADAM SPEAKER: Reading and Receiving Petitions. Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees. MR. R. 0. LISSAMAN (Brandon): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the Report of a Standing Committee of the House on Municipal Affairs. Due to the fact that the report will be circulated to Members of the House almost imme diately, I believe, and its a rather lengthy report, we might dispense with the reading. MADAM SPEAKER: Notices of Motion. MR.

LISSAMAN: Madam Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Morris, that the report of the Committee on Municipal Affairs be received, and I will give notice of concurrence at a later date. Madam Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried, MADAM SPEAKER: Notices of Motion. Introduction of Bills HON.

DUFF ROBLIN (Premier) (Wolseley): Before the Orders of the Day are read, Madam Speaker, I should like to perform a task which is traditionally undertaken at the beginning of each session, in which we record our appreciation for the service rendered the House of the people of Manitoba by former members who have died since we last met, and on this occasion there are six names that I will present to the Assembly in this connection. The first of these is the name of the Honourable John Stewart McDiarmid, formerly Lieutenant-Governor of the Province of Manitoba.

I thlnk there are a good many in this House who sat with Mr. McDiarmid when he was a member of thls Legislature and will know some thing of the character of the man whose memory we honour today. Like so many distinguished Manitobans, he was not only of Scottish descent, he was actually born in Scotland. He came to this country as a young man and made his way successfully in the business world.

In public life he served in many capacities - as an alderman; as a member of the Federal Parliament; as a member of this House, as a very distinguished Minister of the Crown in several port folios; and latterly in the post of Lieutenant-Governor of the Province of Manitoba; and I think that everyone will agree that he filled those various responsibilities with becoming dis tinction that lent credit to himself and reflected on the activities with which he was connected.

He was a man who had a great affection for this province and a profound faith in its future, and in his portfolios as Minister of Mines and as Minister of Industry and Conimerce he had opportunity from time to time to give expression in a very eloquent way to his hopes for the Province of Manitoba, and he did his part to make those hopes come true.

His family are well known to us all here, distinguished citizens of this province, and I know that all members will join with me in offering to his wife and to his three sons our profound expression of sym pathy in their loss and our sincere tribute to his work and contribution to our life in the province.

And so I would beg to move, and I associate in thls motion the Honourable the Leader of the Opposition, that this House convey to the family of the late Honourable John Stewa�t McDiarinid, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly, its sincere syinpathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active commu nity and public service, and that Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of tliis resolu- tion to the family. · · MADAM SPEAKER presented the motion. MR. GILDAS MOLGAT (Leader of the Opposition) (Ste.

Rose): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the First Minister for the courtesy extended to me to allow me to second this Motion. I did not sit in the House with the Honourable Mr. McDiarmid as I came into the House immedia tely following the election in whlch he had chosen not to run, but I 'did get to lmow the gentleman very well in the following years. He was certainly a distingUished Manitobari, an extremely courteous and plea'sant man. ltis name will go down in the history of Manitoba for his many accomplishments at va:r'ious levers of goverriilieht. It win go dowri in the political history of the

82, February 8, 1966. (MR. MOLGAT, con't) .... party that I lead in that he was one of the first Liberals who joined the progressive movement in Manitoba to form the Liberal Progressive coalition which continued under the leadership of my colleague the member for Lakeside until 1958, and in this way, Mr. McDiarmid, I think, performed a very useful work in the political life of that particular party, and I wish to extend my condolences to the McDiarmid family, of whom, in turn, have taken

part in public life in Manitoba. MR. RUSSELL PAULLEY (Leader of the New Democratic Party) (Radisson): Madam Speaker, I would wish to associate the New Democratic Party in the tribute to the late John McDiarmid who served Manitoba with distinction both in the political field and also in the field of a representative of the Royal House in England.

It was in the latter capacity that I had the most to do with the Honourable John McDiarmid ·and I found in him a true Manitoban, a true Canadian, who recognized all of the peoples of the province and of the Dominion as being equals under one common bondage to the monarchy, one common bondage in the interests of humanity. So, Madam Speaker, it is with regret and yet with a sense of pride that we of the New Democratic party associate ourselves in this message of condolence to the family of our late departed friend. MR.

ROBLIN: Madam Speaker, I now refer to Daniel Roy Hamilton, affectionately known to all of us as 'Roxy', and I think the· word •affectionately• is very appropriate to use in connec tion with Roxy Hamilton, because above ordinary men, he had a gi ft for friendship. There can be no one here who knew him who did not admire, respect and truly like this remarkable Manitoban, because Roxy Hamilton was born in this province, he was born in Neepawa if my memory is correct, and was associated with that area and with the town of Dauphin for many years.

He was prominent and his family was prominent in the hotel business in that connection. He served in this Legislature for about twelve years and I think he made a very particular place for himself as the representative of the people of northern Manitoba. He sat for the constituency of Rupertsland and he knew it as very few people do. He not only was interested in promoting its physical development, but he took the most sincere interest in the people of the constituency, particularl y those of Indian and Metis origin.

He was responsible for a school being built which was named after him, for the education of children in that area, and in every way 1n which he could, he regarded himself as a very special representative in this House for the people of the North and his contributions to the debates in those connections were memorable, as I can testify from personal experience. He was a man of wide interests in other fields - sports particularly attracted him - very prominent in the horse breeding associations of Mani toba; keenly interested in racing and in the development of that particular activity.

But above all it was the milk of human kindness that ran through his veins and the friendly way in which he responded to every approach that marks him in my mind as one of nature's gentlemen. I had the privilege of knowing Mr. Hamilton very well and can testify to the kindness and to the friendly way in which he always treated me.

He leaves behind him his wife, and I think two brothers, and I am sure that the House would wish to have expressed to them our deep feelings of sympathy in their loss and our appreciation for the work that Roxy Hamilton did for the province, I therefore move, Madam Speaker, seconded by the Honourable Member for Rupertsland, that this House convey to the family of the late Daniel Roy Hamilton, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service, and that Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family.

MADAM SPEAKER presented the motion. MR. J.E. JEANNOTTE (Rupertsland): Madam Speaker, I was very sorry indeed to hear of the passing away of my friend, the late Roxy Hamilton. Roxy represented for quite some time the constituency that I now have the privilege to represent. He was very popular, and �rom what I hear, represented the people very well. Where I go in the north, yet, I still hear some remarks about the great work that he has done, and I would say very kind remarks indeed. I wish at this time to associate myself with the remarks made by the Premie.r and to extend to Mrs.

Hamilton and to the family my heartfelt sympathy. .. · MR. T. P. HILLHOUSE (Selkirk): Madam Speaker, I had the honour of sitt�ng in this House with Roxy HaiJ]ilton and I got to know him quite well. He was a man who was as big as the constituenby which he represented. I don't know of any ma1,1 who possessed the sense of hlilrtor that was so natural to Roxy, . and I know that he is going to be greatly missed in this province, not ,anlyas a.manbut also as ail individual who has done a great deal for his native province.

It is therefC>re, Madam;. �ith the greatest respect. that I join in this motion of · condolence to Mrs. Hamilton and tb his brothers. ·. . .· ·. . . . . . ·.. . .

February 8, 1966. 83 MR. PAULLEY: I didn't have the privilege of sitting in this House. with Roxy Hamilton, however, on a number of occasions I did have the privilege of his. company. I found him to be a very entertaining personage and one who was devoted to the area that he represented of Ruperts land, and I'll not forget one of the admonitions that he gave to me as a - at that time .:. a young member of this House.

He said, 1Russ, whatever you do, never forget the North, because here is where the greatness of Manitoba lies, I and I hope that in the course of this Session that I will vindicate the admonition of Roxy Hamilton and indicate that his message to me was not in vain. I join in the. condolences to those he has left behind. MR. NELSON SHOEMAKER, (Gladstone): Madam Speaker, I would like to join in the condolence motion that is before the House.

It is true, as the First Minister has suggested, that Roxy Hamilton was born and raised in Neepawa, and he remembered Neepawa in his last will and testament for he left a sizable sum of money to the Neepawa Hospital. Roxy Hamilton was one of the most colourfuJ persons that I think I ever met.

Some people in Neepawa, and throughout the Province, still wonder what political party he was affiliated with, and that 1s understandable because he used to come in the House, as the House members well know, and he would sit over on the benches to your right, Madam Speaker, and then probably he would come in the next week and he would sit over on the benches to your left. He told me on more than one occasion that it cost him money to be a member of the House. I don't doubt that for a moment because he used to promise a culvert here and a bridge there and so on, and often pay for it out of his own pocket.

Madam Speaker, I deem it a pleasure to associate myself with this motion. HON, D, ROBLIN: I believe, Madam Speaker, that the name of Michael Rojeski is pro bably kno:wn only to two members of the House in any intimate way, possibly the Honourable Member for Lakeside, who came into the House ih July, 1922, as Mr. Rojeski did, and probably the Honourable Minister of Education for whose constituency of Gimli Mr. Rojeski sat. However, his story is a - I almost said typical - perhaps not typical, but his story is. a story of achievement on the part of one who was a pioneer in this country.

He came to Canada many years ago from Austria and settled in the Gimli area where he took up the occupation of farming. In that community he became the Reeve of the Municipa:ity of Gimli and he was active in the development of the school structure and the church of his community in those early pioneer days. As I say, he became a member of this House in 1922 and sat here for one session. He leaves a large family behind him, many of whom are still residing in the area of Gimli.

When one considers the difficulties that are involved in moving to a new land as he did, learning a new language as he undoubtedly had to do, and then consider the contribution that he was ::tble to make as a leader in the community, obviously this is a man of stature.

I therefore would like to move the following resolution, seconded by the Honourable Minister of Education, that this House convey to the fan ily of the late Michael Rojeski, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service, and that Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family. HON.

GEORGE JOHN SON (Minister of Education) (Gimli): Madam Speaker, I just wish to say how pleased I am to have the privilege of sharing in this mark of respect to a colourful pioneer Manitoban, Mr. Michael Rojeski, and to associate my remarks with. the Premier in this regard in expressing condolences to the family. Michael Rojeski made no-- as the Premier said may be typical, it really was typical. Mr. Rojeski just died here last October at the age of 81 years. He is survived by his wife and seven children. He lost one. child during the 20's. Mr.

Rojeski was of Polish extraction who came into Canada in 1899 and settled in the Gimli district, and within 9 years was the Reeve of what is now not o11ly Gimli, but the muni cipality of Bifrost and part of what is now the constituency of Fisher, so really his Reeves hip extended over a fair size of Jlllanitoba in those pioneer days, when by and large the majority of the people were probably of Icelandic extraction. He distinguished himself in community affairs as he was Reeve from 1908 to 19 12, and then he became very active in provincial affairs.

He was an organizer of the Liberal Party prior to his election to this House as a Liberal member from 1922 to 1927. Following his period in the Legislature, he again became very interested and very active locally in the Felsendorf District. This is the District about 3i miles west of Gimli where he was active in founding the local church and local United Farmers Community Association, which group built many years ago and still maintain a Community Hall which is

84 February 8, 1966� (MR. GEORGE JOHNSON, cont'd) ... . really the social centre of the farrning community west of town. In his latter years he was a very avid supporter of the old CCF Party. He farmed all his life in this area, and until four years ago when his eyesight failed somewhat, he took an: extremely active interest in political affairs. He is survived by three fine sons in the Gimli District - Waiter, Frank and Martin, The people of the Gimli community are aware of the remarkable contribution which Mr.

Rojeski made to his community, and to Manitoba, and wish to be associated with me, I am sure, in honouring his contribution and respecting his memory. DOUGLAS CAMPBELL (Lakeside): Madam Speaker, what the Honourable the First Minister and the Honourable Minister of Education have said about Mr.

Michael Rojeski certainly indicates that he was a man of initiative, capacity and character, because I think that those of us who have been born in this country are rather slow to recognize the real accomplishment it must have been for those who came from other lands and had to start in here, frequently under the most pioneer circumstances, and learn the ways of the country at the same time as learning the language, and the fact that a good many of the people who have done this have also been honoured by their compatriots by having been given a public office, as Mr.

Rojeski was, is a real tribute to their capacity. As has been mentioned, Mike Rojeski and I came into this House in the same election and sat for the first time in the Session of 1923. I don •t often get the opportunity of correcting the Honourable the Minister of Education, but I think that it is correct to say that Mr. Rojeski sat during the whole of that Legislature as an independent. Apparently he had already started on a change in this thinking that later on took him into the CCF ranks. While he sat in this House he was a real independent.

We don't have as many now as we used to have that qualify for that appelation, but we had in that particular House no less than seven, and most of them, or one or two were pretty close to the parties that they had formerly been allied with. Mike Rojeski was one who maintained his independence very very carefully. He was a modest man. It appears that all the members for Gimli constituency seem to be modest men, and yet men of capacity and character. He was a very interested citizen in all affairs of his adopted country, and he was very modest and humble in a quiet way.

He was very proud of the fact that this country had given him that opporttinity of progressing, as he really esteemed it to be, to the position of where he could not only have served his local area as the Reeve but also to have come to this House as a representativ e of a still larger community. l join with the first Minister and the Minister of Education in paying tribute to the character and capacity of Mr. Rojeski himself, and the excellent contribution that he made in public affairs and community life. MR. PAULLEY: Madam Speaker,- I join in the tribute to Mr. Rojeski.

I had the pleasure of meeting him on a couple occasions during the throes. of elections in the Province of Manitoba, and as the member for Lakeside has so quite properly pointed out, this gentleman who came from foreign land into Canada wanted to make his contribution to the well-being of our Province and he did it. It may be that some would consider with a degree of regret that he eventually came to the realization and the adoption of the policies of the CCF party, as it was during the times when I saw Mr. Rojeski, that the,Se were the proper policies for Manitoba and for Canada.

But notwithstanding this; Madam Speaker, this gentleman did make an invaluable contribution to his community as Reeve, and I join with regret that a man who had made this contribution has passed to his reward, and I join in the expression of condolences to those that he has left behind. MR. ROBLIN: I now place the name of Sidney E. Rogers before the Assembly Madam Speaker. Mr. Rogers was also an immigrant to Canada. He was born in England in the Isle of Wight in 1886 and came to Canada as a boy with his family and settled with his parents in the Makaroff District where they took up a homestead in 1907.

I think one of the remarkable things about Mr. Rogers 1 career was the fact that for 30 years he served as the Reeve of Shell River Municipality. That surely is a remarkable record in the annals ofthe public service in the province. We have many men who spend much of their lives in munfcipal work but few, I think, can claim to have been the Reeve of their Municipality for 30 years as Mr. Rogers was. He also sat in this Legislature.

He was here for ten years, from 1935 to 1945, and if my memory is correct, he was the leader of his party in the House during part of that time arid certainly was prominent in the public life of the province.

February 8, 1966� 85 (MR. ROBLIN, cont1d) .... SJ,nce his retirement from the Legislature he has been living in the City'of Winnipeg and he is survived by his wife and by four daughters and a number of grandchildren. I am sure that the members of the House would wish to record their appreciation to the contribution that Mr. Rogers has made to public life both at the municipal and at the provincial level, and to express their regrets to the family on their loss and their regard for Mr. Rogers • contribu tion to the building of the province.

I therefore move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Roblin, that this House convey to the family of the late Sidney Ernest Rogers, who served as a member of the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service, and that Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family. Madam Speaker presented the motion. MR.

KEITH ALEXANDER (Roblin): Madam Speaker, although Sid Rogers was not well known to me personally, I do know other close members of his family, and through them and through the community I do know his reputation. Sid Rogers was one of those community-minded citizens who was honest and sincere and who felt it was a real privilege to be able to serve the people of his constituency in this Assembly, and this he did very well. He was well regarded in his community by members of all political parties and this contributed in a very great and real manner to his political success.

I therefore join with the Premier in his message of condolence to the family of Mr. Rogers. MR. MOLGAT: Madam Speaker, I did not have the pleasure ofknowing Mr. Rogers or meeting him after he left this House, but I wish to associate the members of my group in this condolence motion. I think it is fitting that we recognize those who have served here in the past and the contribution that they've made to the Province of Manitoba, and certainly Mr. Rogers was one of those who distinguished himself and represented his constituency well. MR. PAULLEY: Madam Speaker, I too did not have the pleasure of knowing Mr. Rogers.

I recognize however that from time to time members are elected to this august Assembly and ·who attempt in their own way to make a contribution to the life of this province of ours. I am sure that Mr. Rogers was one of these and I join on behalf of the New Democratic Party in recongnition of the contribution that Mr. Rogers has made to Manitoba, and express our appre ciation for his service. MR. ROBLIN: Madam Speaker, what shall we say of Morris Gray, because here was a man whom everyone in this house knew and whom I think was beloved by us all.

It is hard to think of a more romantic story than the story of Morris Gray, coming here as an immigrant from Russia with, as he himself described it, nothing but the clothes he stood up in and his two hands, and of course the heart that made the man.

To consider his contribution in the field of public service is to run the gamut from the school board to the city council and to the seat in this House, where he spoke in the interests of those causes that were dear to his heart for I think some 25 years; and as well to be an acknowledged leader in his own community, the community of the Jewish faith, where in religious matters and affairs of the community generally, he left an indelible mark. · · I s�ppose we shall always think of him as the advocate of the dispossessed, the advocate of the humbled, the advocate of those who had few to speak for them, perhaps at times, and one who displayed an unceasing concern for what he conceived to be the welfare of others.

He wasn't a very good man at arithmetic, I have to say, because sometimes the feelings of his heart outran the possibilities of the occasion, but that really fs hardly a· fault.

There are others who could take care of that aspect of matters, but it needed somebody like Morris Gray to stand up here on occasions and to tell the House, to tell the province what he thought should be done for those in need in the Province of Manitoba, Of course he was also interested in the other aspects of public life, the building of the provire e, education - you can hardly name an important area of public responsibility where be. had not made his contribution, particularly in the field of human relations, equity, and justice in dealing with matters of employment, treatment of humari beings, prejudice of all kinds.

These were the things that Morris knew something about. These were the things which he was able to place before us with an eloquence which really was unmatched when he allowed his emotions to move his mind as he frequently did here. So we are sorry that Morris is gone. We1ll.miss him, but we•ll remember him with affection and with pride,

86 February 8, 1966 (MR. ROBLIN, cont1d) .... So Madam Speaker, I would like to move, and associate in this motion the Honourable Leader of the New Democratic Party, that this House convey to the family of the late Morris A. Gray, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sym pathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service, and that Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family. Madam Speaker presented the motion. MR.

PAULLEY: I think, Madam Speaker, and fellow legislators of Manitoba, that this is one of the toughest motions that I have had the opportunity to speak to since becoming a member of this Legislature. I thank you, Mr. Premier, for allowing me the honour of being associated with this motion. I thank Morris Gray for being an inspiration to me during the years that I have had the privilege of sitting in this House. I well recall the first time that I sat in this Assembly in 1954. There were but five of us in the CCF Party at that particular time.

It was Morris Gray who took me under his wing and guided me into many of the basic philosophies of the then CCF Party and instilled in me a desire to emulate the work that he had been doing for many years previously. Then, Madam Speaker, when in !959 the then leader of this group of New Democrats as they were -or CCF still, but in the period of transition -Mr. Lloyd Stinson lost an election, it came a question as to who should be the leader of our group at that time of 10 members, and Morris Gray who was senior by many years to me said, 1Russ, accept the leadership of the party.

I will be more than happy to sit beside you in the Assembly and assist you in any manner that I can. ' I'm sure that you will agree with me, Madam Speaker, as will indeed the Honourable Minister without portfolio from the times when he was Speaker of this House, that Morris Gray was a great parliamentarian, for I can picture him now standing up, Madam Speaker, and saying 11 know I'm out of order, Madam Speaker, but I just want to say this on behalf of some body in the Province of Manitoba 1, and I want to express my appreciation to you, Madam Speaker, and the Speakers ahead of you, that you recognized a real diamond in. the rough in the former member for Inkster, His seat is empty today, Madam Speaker, and why is it empty?

The Clerk of the Assembly, just prior to the call to duty this year, asked me as leader whether or not it was our intention to ask somebody to fill Morris 1s seat for the duration of this Assembly. We discussed this matter. We felt, Madam Speaker, that the greatest tribute that we could pay to this Russian immigrant who did so much for Canada and for Mani toba was at least for this Session to leave his seat vacant so that we could reflect on the job that he has done.

Time will not erase from my memory, and I'm sure from the memory of those who had the honour and the privilege of working and sitting with Mot ris Gray, the many kind deeds that this man performed. Regretfully, Madam Speaker, I associate myself with the motion of condolence and I suggest to those who are assembled here and can hear me today and those that may hear of the tributes that will be paid to Morris Gray, that if they, too, desire to become great Canadians and great Manitobans, they could do no less than follow in the footsteps of Morris Gray, former Member of this House. MR.

MOLGAT: Madam Speaker, it came as a shock to every member of this House when they heard of Morris Gray's death. We had come to accept Morris as someone who seemed to have been here from all time and who was going to be here for all time, He was a friend of everyone here. He never had an unkind word to say about anyone else.

Whenever you met Morris, whether it was here in tl:!e buildings or outside dlll'ing session or between sessions, he was the same friendly, courteous man, To me, he is the embodiment of what is Canada, and even more so, of what is Manitoba, with our great mixture of peoples, a man who came here with nothing at all except his desire to do good, During his service to the people of Manitoba at whatever level it was -school board, municipal or here in this House -he devoted himself to helping those who needed help, Here was a man who knew what it meant to be in need.

He was quite obviously, when he had come to Canada, he was in need. He never forgot those others in the province who are in the same circumstances. And it is an honour for me to associate my group in this condolence motion to a man, an immigrant to Canada, who served our province extremely well.

February 8, 1966. 87 MR. J. M. FROESE (Rhineland): Madam Speaker, although not having known some of the other late members that we•ve already heard of this afternoon, we all knew Morris Gray very well. Indeed, Mr. Gray was an early pioneer who in his early days lived in southern Manitoba, which is part of my constituency. Here he spent his early days and started in business and tried to make the best out of life at that time. It was very hard during his early days to make a living, and as a result we had many things in common.

Very often he would relate an incident or a story of his early days that he had spent in southern Manitoba. When I first came into the House I happened to amend one of his motions, which I think offended him at that time. I wasn't .. .. . some of the past motions that he generally sponsored, but later on we became very close friends and I had the greatest respect for the late Morris Gray; and I would like to extend my sympathies and condolences to the family of the late Morris Gray, with other speakers. MR.

LEMUEL HARRIS (Logan): Madam Speaker, I would be very remiss if I didn't.make a few remarks about Morris Gray. My leader said he was a diamond in the rough. Yes, he was a diamond in the rough, but that roughness brought out something in me that brought me here, and through that man I have learned many a thing, and I say to all of you, 1f we have that touch of humbleness in us that was in that man, I think we would be doing well today. Thank you. HON. MA IT LAND B.

STEINKOPF (P rovincial Secretary) (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I too, would like to express a word of condolence to the family of the late Morris Gray. Our family arrived in southern Manitoba about twenty years before Morris Gray did, and from that time that he arrived until the time of his death, our families were very very close and we got to know one another very well. I will never forget that he was very friendly to me from the very first day that I arrived in the Legislature; he befriended me, gave me any amount of good advice.

In the time of my greatest travail he made a speech on my behalf, believing in my sincerity; he had confidence in me the likes of which I have never had handed to me, and of course I felt that I didn't deserve all of it expressed but I did have the feeling that this was the real Morris Gray. He was a Canadian in the true sense of the word and he was ever grateful, not for the things that he received, but for the freedom that he enjoyed in living in Canada. As others have said, he never forgot that he arrived in Winnipeg penniless.

His fortune, however, seemed to grow and grow and grow as he saw more and more of his dreams for his fellow man become reality. \Vhen he came to my office the Friday before his death he stated that he was prepared to meet his Maker because he had lived long enough to see the Canada Pension Plan come into being, To the very end he was thinking of others because the Canada Pension Plan could have no benefit at all for him. There are many 1n Canada, Madam Rpeaker, who will miss Morris Gray, MR.

ROBLIN: Madam Speaker, I come to the last of the names that I present to the House this afternoon, and it is that of the late Paul Bardal whose death is a very recent event. Mr. Bardal was born in Winnipeg but he will be prominently associated with the Icelandic community of which he was so influential a member. And in this list of names that we recall today, it is indeed remarkable to see how they weave together the different ·racial and ethnic strands that make up the substance of the provi!X! e; and Mr.

Bardal 1s contribution as a leader of the Icelandic community is certainly part of that story -what we sometimes call 'the Manitoba mosaic '. He was gifted musically and for many years was active ln choral work as a conductor and a singer, and always lent his support to that important aspect of the cultural life. of our community. He was au alderman in the City of Winnipeg during some very difficult times in the depression, and as chairman of �he Civic Relief Committee during the Great Depression, he did outstanding work.

He carried on his interest in that part of our affairs in being active in the formation of the Notre Dame Centre and the Age and Opportunity Bureau, both of which had to do with the welfare of older citizens in the city.

He was a member of this House for two terms, not one after another -there was an interval between- but I had the pleasure of knowing him when he sat here from 1949 to 1952 or thereabouts, and he made an impression as a very thoughtful member of this House; a man who in his own personality was very kind, very considerate, very thoughtful, indeed a gentle mall, and yet who was well able to express his opinion and his point of view in the debates which engaged his attention.

So here again we have an example of another distinguished citizen of this province who was a credit to himself, to the community of which he was a part, and who made a contribution of merit and distinction to the welfare of the city to which he belonged and the province of which he was proud. And so, Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable the Leader of the

88 February 8, 1966. (MR. ROB LIN, cont1d) ..•• Opposition, that this House convey to the famiiy of the .late Paul Bardal, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sym pathy in their bereavement, and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service, and that Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family. Madam Speaker presented the motion. MR. MOLGAT: Paul Bardal will be sorely missed by his many, many friends in Manitoba, I thank the First Minister for associating me as Seconder of this Motion.

I did not sit in the House with Mr. Bardal, but I did get to know him very well after I became a Member of the Legislature. He retained a keen interest in the political affairs of Manitoba and in community affairs in general. I had many occasions of meeting him at meetings of our own groups, as well as in various military associations where he was particularly interested.

As the First Minister said, Paul Bardal was a gentle man, ahd yet a man of very definite convic tions; a man who was not afraid to stand up for the things in wh.ich he believed; and his record of service to Manitoba, to Winnipeg in particular, will be remembered by many. He was a man who did great credit to his particular ethnic group. He will go down in the history of the Province of Manitoba as a distinguished Manitoban. MR . PAU LLEY: Madam Speaker, may I on behalf of the group I have the honor to lead pay our respects too to the late Paul Bardal.

I don't recall too much of this distinguished gentleman in the field of provincial affairs, however I do recall back in the mid-thirties or thereabouts, when I first became activated in civic affairs as against provincial affairs, that I well recall the name of Paul Bardal, Alderman. And while our political ideologies and philosophies may not have been aldn, we had the greatest respect at that time and had through out the years for this man who devoted his energies to his city and to his province, and we join in the condolences to those he leaves behind. HON.

GURNEY EVANS (Fort Rouge) (Minister of Industry and Commerce): Madame Speaker, I wish to lay on the table of the House the Annual Report of the Department of Industry and Commerce, with which is bound the report of the Manitoba Design Institute, the Manitoba Export Corporation, the Manitoba Research Council, the M;:;nitoba Transportation Commission, and Manitoba Development Authority, all for the year ending March 31st, 1965. MR. ROBLIN: Madam Speaker, I neglected to lay on the table yesterday the report on any overdrafts or lines of credit, which I now do. MR ..

FROESE: Madam Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Honourable The Minister of Education. Are the contributions made by female teachers to the Teachers Retirement Allowances Fund withdrawable after several years of service as in the past now that the fund is being integrated with the Canada Pt:nsion Plan? MR . JOHNSON: I wish to thank the member for Rhineland for notice of this question. The answer is that the portion which is the Canada Pension Plan portion ls not withdrawable. The portion in connection with the TRA fund is withdrawable as it has been in the past. MR.

MOLGAT: Madam Speaker, before the orders of the day I would lik{\to address a question to the Minister of Agriculture. Will he be supplying the members of the House with a copy of the submission of the Manitoba Government to the poverty conference in Ottawa that was held in early December? MR. HUTTON: No. MR. GOROON E. JOHNSTON (Portage La Prairie): Madam Speaker� I would like to address a question to the Hoi:wurable the Minister of Education --two questions. Has the Minister had a report on the Fannystelle School controversy, and if he has, could he .tell us what action is contemplated in this regard? MR.

JOHNSON: The Fannystelle School? MR. JOHNSTON: The controversy over a family attending the Fannystelle School -- the children. . MR . JOHNSON: Madam Speaker, In this connection w,e have met with.the Board of that school and are at present still conducting an inquiry. MR. s. PETERS (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, before the orders of the day, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Agriculture. Has there been �y meetings with the. flood forecasting people yet? HO:N. GEORGE HU.TTON (Minister of Agriculture) (Rockwood-lbe;r�lle): .Not as yet.

M:Et, MOLGAT: Madam Speaker, !would like to address a .question to,the Mln�ster,. of Agriculture. It was reported I think at the Conference that 'is now being held in Winnip�g

February 8, 1966 .89 (MR. MOLGAT, cont'd) .... that there is a serious shortage of beef developing, and there is a statement by the President of the Meat Packers Council of Canada that m eat orders from the United States are being turned down in Canada because Canadian production cannot fill them, Is this an accurate statement, and what is the situation of our livestock prodt�ction in Manitoba? Is it keeping pace with the extra demand? MR. HUTTON: Madam Speaker, this is a topic for a speech if I'm going to answer his question.

I wonder if the Honourable Leader of the Opposition would like to wait until a more convenient time to answer upon this whole area. But to answer his question briefly, the fact is that there is going to be a shortage of beef in North America during the next five years. The forecast is that Manitoba is doing as well as any other area in the rate of increase to meet this demand, but we have to remember that in terms of the North American production of beef, Manitoba represents about less than one percent. MR.

MOLGAT: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask a subsequent question, Is it correct that we are unable to fill orders from the United states at this time? MR. HUTTON: I think, Madam Speaker, that I can't answer that question. Obviously, it should be directed to the people who are receiving the orders. MR. ELMAN GUTTORMSON (St. George): Madam Speaker, before the orders of the day, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Public Works. I wonder if he would consider restoring the old bells that summon the members into the Chamber.

We find that the present bells don't rouse the members in the committee rooms as readily as they should, and I would appreciate it if he would consider making the change, HON. WALTER WEm (Minister of Public Works) (Minnedosa): Madam Speaker, we'll certainly have it checked, I'll just draw to the attention to the honourable member that they are working better now than they were opening day when they wouldn't work at all . . . . . . . . . . . continued on next page

90 February s, 1966. ORDERS OF THE DAY Mr� ROBUN: Madam Speaker, the Orders of the Day naturally give precedence to the private members resolution!l;but I wonder if it would meet the wishes of the :House, and perhaps the convenience of the Leader of the New Democratic Party, if we should not call Private Orders today but go at once to the Throne Speech debate in order that we receive his contribution.

Any member who has a private resolution and doesn't approve of this procedure, naturally we will be happy to accommodate them, but unless there is some objection to the contrary, I suggest we call the amendment on the Th rone Speech resolution. Mr. MOLGAT: That will be agreeable to us, Madam Speaker. Maybe we should check with the Leader of the New Democratic Party and see if it is agreeable to him. Mr. ROBUN: I think he won't object.

MADAM SPEAKER: The adjourned debate on the proposed motion of the Honourable Member for Soritis-Lansdowne and the proposed amendment thereto by the Honourable the Leader of the Opposit ion. The Honourable the Leader of the New Democratic Party. Mr. PAULLEY: Madam Speaker, may I fi rst of all thank the members of the House for their courtesy and their generosity.

I realize that today is Private Members Day insofar as resolutions are concerned, and had any of the members who have resol�tions on the order paper desired to go ahead, it certaillly would have been okay by me; 1 do trust however that even with the contemp lated changes in our rules that there will be ample time for the loss of today's time, if iricteed it is a loss, respecting private members' resolutions.

At the offset, Madam Speaker, may I compliment you - again ini.ust confesstruit it iS rather difficult fbr a male member of the House to say to a lady Speaker you•re'lo6kkg charming, becailse after all we couid but. say rid thing else for fear of rimlliilg. into difficulty. However, I extend tO you, MadarriSpeaker, :iny goodwill and ccimpli� ents o:iryour''cdnfin uilig in the high office of Speaker of this House.

Before I deal with the question of compliments to the mover and seconder of the speech in reply, may I express a personal observation -- a personal message of thanks to our former Lieutenant-Governor the Honourable Er rick Will is, and his consort. May I take thi s oppor tunity of saying to them through this House, that I as a Manitoban appre ciate very much the job that they did for Manitoba and the excellent manner in which they fulfilled their respective duties.

May I take this opportunity also, Madam Speaker, of expressing to our present Lieutenant-Governor the good wishes, the goodwill, and also our affection and our support in his new venture as. L4eutenant.-,Governor of this Province , and I pledge to him, and through him to our M�n�rc� , the l�yalsupport'of the New Democratic Party of Manitoba. To the mover and the seconder of the speech in reply, may I thank them for their kindness, for their tributes to my former colleagues Morris Gray and Eddie Schreyer.

May I also compliment them for the spirit of their speeches and the contents thereof, and I look forward as the Session progresses to hearing more from them, because I think it is one of the travesties of our parlimentary system as we know it today that, generally speaking, back benchers in government have to remain silent too much of the time. I hope and trust that the day will come when we have changes in our parliamentary system which wi ll allow for full participation of all members of assemblies such as we have her.e in Manitoba.

I would li ke to say to the Leader of the Opposi tion I enjoyed most heartily his remarks of yesterday. I listened wi th a great deal of interest to his contribution to the debate, to his recommendations, to his condemnations of what is going on in the Province of Manitoba. I want to thank him for his kindness in referring to my former colleague Eddie Schreyer, the former member ofBrokenhead who is now a member of Parliament at Ottawa.

I quite frankly admit, Madam Speaker, that we are going to miss Eddie Schreyer in this Legislature, but oh what a gain it is for Ottawa that a man of his qualities and his capabilitie s will be there, whic h leaves me to reflect just for a moment on what happened last November the 8th during the Federal election. It has been recorded, through the Media of the Press, through the issu ance of the official returns of the election, that only the New Democratic Party in Manitoba gained insofar as support is concerned both in popular support, percentage-wise, and also in the number of gains of seats.

Most of this gain was at the expense of the party represented in this House by the Honourable the Leader of the Opposition, and I suggest, Madam Speaker, that this is just hut a forerunner of days to come, that here in Manitoba, that here in Canada, the wri ting is on the wall for the Liberal party as it was on the wall in Great Britain a number of years ago. There are many who are desirous of the return to a two-party system here in Canada and here

February 8, 1966 91 (Mr. PAUL LEY cont'd) ..... in Manitoba, and I say to you, Madam Speaker, and members of this Assembly, it is coming. There will be those of us who are on the left and those who are on the right, and there is no place, there is no place for those who are teeter-tottering neither right nor left. So I say, Madam Speaker, we will return eventually to a two-party system. The New Democratic Party, the left wing of the Liberal Party, the Tories and the reactionaries of the Liberal Party likewise will combine.

Now, Madam Speaker it is my duty, my obligation as the leader of a party in opposition, to offer comments regarding the proposals as laid before us by His Honour the Lieutenant Governor. I trust that before I take my seat this afternoon I will be able to criticize the shortcomings of the government. I hope, however, that before I finish my remarks that not only will my criticism be destructive, that I will be enabled to offer something of a construc tive nature for the consideration of this As sembly and for the consideration of Manitobans.

The other day, following the Throne Speech, I was asked whether I thought the Speech from the Throne was indeed an election manifesto. My answer at that time, Madam Speaker; was in the negative . And why? Because I did not think that the administration would have the gall to face the electorate of Manitoba with the propositions that are contained in the Throne Speech. They lack so much what is required and what is needed for- Manitoba that I· do not think on: the basis of the document read by His Honour that that administration could face the electorate of the Province of Manitoba.

Following opening day last Thursday another opening took place: the opening of the annual convention of the New Democratic Party. And there it did appear-- as though! made about face, because 1 suggested to my fellow New Democrats that they should gird themselves and arm themselves in preparation for a provincial election. I want to say, Madam Speaker, to the members of this House there was no conflict, for I believe that there , is an election coming.

I believe that in the document that has been presented by Hhi Honour, the Lieuteila:nt Governor, there is nothing worthwhile .for the future well-bei:i:J.g Of the Provilice of Manitoba; but I believe: that the government of Manitoba are so self-c entered, are so smiig· in their · · ' beliefs, that they. think that they have in this document a program for Manitoba, 'and' therefore I say we may be having an election 'ere long. This is a very interesting document, Madam Speaker.

This third paragraph talks about the Centennial of our nation only being. but a year away. •Do'you remember; Madam S]?eaker, that just last year at: our Session we dealt with the question of the ·Fitltoli-Favreau recdnime·nd ations for the ·repatriation of the Constitution of Caliadi, and •that during the debates attha:t time both the Conservative-s and the Liberale. said that we must accept the recommendations' of the Fulton-Fa vreau re'port in order that we, duririg the celebrations of our·Centenary, will be able to show the people of Canada a document whichwill. patriatethe Constitution here in' Canada?

Alone, in this .House; Madam Speaker, we of the New Democratic Party would not accept the .formula because of its rigidity. We even offered to the Attorney.:.General of the Province of Manitoba. a- sugges-tion that rather than going.into this field with blink ers on, that the question of the ·repatriation and the component parts 'Of the r£!commeii.dat1oD. should be ' ·considered and then brought-back to this Legislature. '· Our suggestfon was:�j ected by both Liberals and Conservatives, and now what is happening? :What has ha-Ppened that

whereas, before, a-year ago, it ll.ppeared as though there was unanimity ac·ross Gahada for eleven governments on the format of a Canadian Constitution, Quebec' and:Ottawa have rejected the very constitutional ammen:dments. and recommendations that this:Governmentand this Official Opposition were prepared.· to accept. ·I -rais'e this point, Madam Speaker, just to illustrate, just to illustrate the methodology of the operation of the government of ManitOba · and its Official Oppos ition, prepared to go along withwha:t appears aVthe time to be popular.

Not counting the. consequences; not, counting the ramifications •of likely everits ahead. • , · This document tells us that "my Ministers state that our province is in the midst ·of an:: unprecedented period. of prosperity and growth" , Is this so Madam Speaker? Is this so? What are we talking about when we'r e talking about prosperity liild' growth? Are we talking about the growth of the individual debt that we have here in' the Province of Manitoba? A're we talking about the growth in the numbers of people in Manitoba who are being deprived Of the basic requirements of existence ?

Are we· talking of growth in: terms· Of poptila:tion? Figures don't bear this out population-w ise. Our COME F report menti oned thaf oti:r popuhi. tion·should increase-c onsiderably from the tinui of their report. ' This hasn1tha:ppened;' The average growth in the Dominion of Canada, ·acoording to the DOminion BureaU of Statistics, was· about 6, 6 percent. Net, increase in Manitolia was 3. 9%; migratitin hl>out 10% of that�

92 February 8, 1966 (Mr. PAULLEY cont'd) ... .. We're actually losing population in Manitoba. I recall a few days ago a man speaker reading an

article in the Winnipeg Free Press, I believe it was. It was commenting on the lack of population growth, and it suggested there that it might be due to the advent of the use of contraceptive pills . I don't think thi s is so, as far as Manitoba, at all. I think it's because of the lack of economic growth in our province that our population is actually going down. So, Madam Speaker, as we carry through with the consideration of the Speech from the Throne, we find instances throughout the Throne Speech that in my opinion do not reflect the true situation of Manitoba.

Throughout the Throne Speech mention is made of items to be undertaken by Manitoba. In many instances these items to be un dertaken require the co operation and participa tion of the Federal authority. And what are some of them ? The Nelson River project requires the partic ipation of the Federal Authority. Study of the ways of imp roving transportation facilities in the North. Manpower development in the Interlake area. Northern TV. National fresh water fish export marketing port. Medicare. Farm goals. Federal Government revenue for education.

Intermingled through every page and every paragraph almost, Madam Speaker, in the Throne Speech, ... that we require the act of participation or support of the Federal authority. What Manitoba happens, if tnis cooperation, -- or participation is more important, because I'm sure that the cooperation will be there - what would happen to Manitoba if partic ipation, with the Federal authority does not accrue ? The government hasn't suggested any programs in the alternative through the lack of federal participa tion.

The provincial Premier, the front benches, haven't said to us members of the Legislature that "if we don't get federal aid this is what we 're going to do for Manitoba". Do you remember, Madam Speaker, a few years ago, when we were discussi ng the question of a floodway around Winnipe g? The Premier of the Province of Manitoba told us at that time, in answer to a question, that if he didn't get federal partic ipation he would go it alone, even to the degree of some 65 - 70 millions of dollars. Has the Premier told us this in respect of Medicare?

Has the Premier told us that in order to establish a comprehensive Medicare program for the Province of Manitoba, if need be he'll go it alone? It's a far lesser cost than the cost of a floodway. No. No; not at all. One could go on, Madam Speaker, referring to the contents and the omissions of the Throne Speech, and I want to leave that. Madam Speaker, there are a great number of things wrong with thi s province, and I intend to touch on most of them. Perhaps the most immediate concern is our seeming inability to participate in Canada'.s economic boom.

While other provinces are experiencing unprecedented growth rates, Manitoba is tapering off. Economic facts contained in last year's Budget and Economic Review, under the heading of "Manitoba's Provincial Sector Activities Gross Value, " we find the following facts: Two years ago increase in manufacturing activity was $47 million; last year only $42 million - a decline of $5 million. Two years ago increase in construction activity amounted to $60 million. Last year there was an actual decline of $6 million from years previous.

In mining expansion it was cut by over fifty percent of inc rease, from $ll million to $5 million. I and my colleagues dealt with these facts fully last year, but I just wanted to refresh the memories in government that needed refreshing. Our growth rate is not what is needed, what it could be, or what it should be. The extent to which Manitoba is partic ipating is due to internal factors. And we are having some gains . Part of the gain was seen because of the fortuitous sales of wheat by the Canadian Wheat Board and the side effects of the boom in Saskatchewan.

I say the side eff ects of the boom in Saskatchewan principally because of the building of a chemi cal fertilizer plant in the Brandon area. What does the Manitoba Business Journal have to say about Manitoba? It establishes that in its opinion Manitoba is not partaking in the growth as we should. But I ask, Madam Speaker, should we always be totally Jlependent on others for our growth, as this government seems to be content to let us be?

Although essentially a conservative document, the Second Annual Review of the Economic Council of Canada has this to say about growth. and the role of government, and I quote: "In essence, the emphasis of government policy should be on steering the economy along a chartered course of potential economic growth rather than simply reacting to emerging or past developments." Well, our Conservative Government is simply reacting to pressure. It won't look ahead. It won't act until it is forced to. Our potential growth is severly limited by a lack of skilled manpower.

A quote from the editorial page of the Manitoba Business Journal as saying, on page 9, that local industrial officials are flying to England to hire skilled labour. Manitoba Business Journal also states on the

February 8, 1966 93 (Mr. PAULLEY cont'd) .. ... same page that there is an actual shortage of skilled labour. It states that this situation is particularly bad in Manitoba because numbers of skilled workers have left the province for greener pastures. It suggests, in the editorial, Manitoba business men can keep these workers by paying higher wages. What did my Honourable friend the Minister of Industry and Commerce have to say in this regard back on November 18th, according to an

article in the Winnipeg Tribune, a news report, headlined Exports That Make More Jobs, Says Evans, and the quote is: "The Provincial Government is losing millions of dollars every year educating young persons who are forced to move elsewhere when it comes time for them to look for jobs, Gurney Evans, Minister of Industry and Commerce said Wednesday. Mr. Evans said the loss could be offset if secondary industry and the exporting business was expanded. The expansion would create a great many jobs needed by the unemployed.

" Has there been such a terrific change, Madam Speaker, between November 18 and February 8, and the Throne Speech -- contained in the Throne Speech a glowing picture of practic ally no unemployment? What meanest the Minister of Industry and Commerce on November 18 when he makes reference to the expansion that was required in order to provide employment to the unemployed ?

The Manitoba Business Journal says one of the things that we are having to face here, or will have to face - the businessmen of Manitoba will have to face - is the payment of better wages to our skilled workers, because we are losing them to other jurisdictions . But what is this government doing in this regard? What is the Minister of Labour doing in this regard? Madam Speaker, they set a magnificent goal in respect of minimum wages.

In one of the propaganda sheets of October 22nd of last year, the Honourable Obie Baizley announced that we hope to have a one dollar minimum wage by next year, that effective the first of December of 1965 the minimum wage will be 85 cents an hour in urban areas; 80 cents in rural parts; by July 1, 1966 the minimum will rise to the magnificent sum - by July the first, Dominion Day of next year -o f 92 1/2 cents in the urban area. And then, one year away almost, we will have a magnificient minimum wage in Manitoba, this progressive, this expanding province, of $1. 00 per hour.

Is it any wonder, Madam Speaker, that the Manitoba Business Journal draws to our attention that skilled workers are leaving the Province of Manitoba? Do you know, Madam Speaker, what is happening in Manitoba? Our skilled workers are leaving it, and the residue in many instances are those that are not acceptable elsewhere, and we're suffering as a result of that; and I'm not referring to the products of our universities and our technical schools when I say that. There is an acute shortage of skilled labour in this province, because they can get better pay elsewhere.

A horribly low minimum wage, even with the proposed increase, just allows people to live on a subsistence level. Our educational system has not been geared because government is unable to look ahead and see the need for skilled manpower. Even when assis tance was available from Ottawa in the field of technical and vocational education, the government dragged its feet. There are only two areas in Canada which makes less use of assi stance from Federal authorities than Manitoba, and these are Prince Edward Island and the Yukon. Disgusting, it is true.

Potential growth in Manitoba has also been limited due to a lack of local markets for local industry. Has the government done anything in this regard? I say "no". Indeed, it has allowed the area with the largest potential for growth as a consumer to languish. We 're going back,

whereas a few years ago the Greater Winnipeg! area and Manitoba were considered as being the distributing centre and the manufacturing centre for the west. The west is gradually overcoming us and leaving us holding the bag due to the policies of the Conservative Government. Speak of the North - its development has been criminally ignored. Recently I had the opportunity of going north for a short period of time and I was impressed with the modern communities there, but there's no development of second industry taking place in the north.

Possi ble results could well be in the very near future complete economic stagnation. Auto: mation is having its effect in the mining industry; less workers have been employed than ever. And while we are finding new mines, Madam Speaker, we're not finding them rapidly enough to provide jobs for the younger generation in the north. While I was up there I had an opportunity to speak at a meeting, and I warned them of what I know of previous happenings politically here in Manitoba, for I .recalled in the election of 1953 the then representative of the north told us ''Re-elect us ari.d. we will see that there is

94 February 8, 1966 (Mr. PAULLEY cont'd) •.•.. a pulp and paper mill at The Pas. " Well, he was re-elected. Then in 1958- 59 the present representative of the north toted out the old cry, "Give us power and we'll equip a pulp and paper mill in the area of The Pas. " So I warned the people of the north, "Be wary.

Just as soon as the Honourable the Minister of Welfare or the Honourable the Minister of Health comes lip here, " - and, incidentally, they haven 't seen him up there for some considerable time and they're asking for him; they asked me to describe him - but anyway, I said, "Just as soon as they come up and start talking to you good folks up here that you're going to get a pulp and paper mill, be sure of one thing: an election is in the offin g. " What has this government done in regard to the Indian and the Metis other than to pay lip service to them and give them handouts?

What have they done regarding the potential source of skilled manpower the province require s. This situation is true of the north; but they're equally true of the whole province. We could increase market for locally produced products by increasing purchasing power of the people . And while the Minister of Labour condones low wages, the people affected will not have the required money to purchase the goods that they require a.Jld that we can produce. To this governments eternal disgrace, there are large numbers of people in Manitoba living below the substinence level as calculated by ARDA.

ARDA reports estimate that 25% of Manitoba farm families and 48% of rural non farm families are living at the poverty level. If this doesn't concern the government on humanitarian grounds it cer tainly should on economic grounds, be cause people living in this fashion present lost purchasing power and slower economic growth. There is also a lack in thi s province of resource develo pment in exploration. The basic fallacy in the government's approach to the problem lies in the line read by His Honour which says the priva te sector of the economy has a basic responsibility in this field.

The result of this incorrect assessm ent of the situation has been for the gove rnment to sit on its hands and wait for private sector to act. Some time it will act if private sector doesn't, but only in response to overwhelming pressure . This is not good enough for Manitoba. The speech also indicated that the Government was going to do something about technical and voca tional education in some areas . Building schools. We don't know what subjects will be taught or required. No survey to our knowledge as ,Yet to see what skills are availab le . No survey to see what skills are necessary in the future.

The government has littie idea of what industrial developments will take place next. There has been no survey as far as we are aware of as to what will be required in the field of technical and voca tional education in Manitoba that .will fit into any planned program. An absolute and total lack of any planning. The potential result of this lack of plaaning is that our technical and voca tional training will become a di saster of the magnitude of the general course program. It was an excellent course but it is not being used by the prope r people.

It is not being used beca use there is no opportunity from the general course to go to University if a student changes its mind. The provincial government did not inquire before it inaugurated the general course . It did not inquire to asce rtain what professions, such 341 nursing would accept the general course as qualifying a student for entering. We have had this matter before the assembly on a number of occas ions and I'm sure it will be before us again this year. The course looked good on pape r, but it is a mess in actual opera tion because of the lack of planning.

Let's not have this happen to urgently required technical and voca tional training. We can't afford to waste human skills through error. It has been estimated that two-thirds of the academi cally gifted people in this country have been wasted. How many more technically gifted were wasted while this government refused to act on technical and voca tional education? The Deutsch Report indicates that the economic return on post secondary education is 16 to 20% per year higher than those that don't have it. We must have rapid and rational and planned growth in this area of education now.

A better rate of economic growth in United States is due to their better educational facilities and the availability and also the production of a better educated labour force in that country. Yet this government is putting stumbling blocks in the way of peopleto learnby· refusing to abolish tuition fees at post sec ondary levels .

I say, Madam Speaker, to the Minister of Education, he can formulate all of the programs that he likes, but unless those programs and the benefits of these programs are available to all the young men and women in Manitoba they fall far short of the desira ble, and do not give what my honourable friend the Minister of Education often talks about: the equality of opportunity in education in the Province of Manitoba. How much of our human resource potential must. we waste before our Premier can see that economic considera tion still affect educational achievemen t ?

Still my friend the Premier, the Provincial Treasurer,

February 8, 1966 95 (Mr. PAULLEY cont'd) •... refuses to remove economic obstacles to educational achievement. As I said earlier, the education program outlined by the Premier looks impressi ve expressed in generalities as it is, but I want to say that I for one am fed up with crash programs : design ed to cover up past errors with a flurry of activity . I'm sick and tired to death with the government saying: How can you say we aren't dealing with the problems of this pro1vin ce ? Look at what we propose to do. The government has always had proposals to get out of a mess.

What I want them to do is to avoid getting into the mess in the first place. 1 I suggested thi s yesterday, Madam Speaker, when we were dealing about the heat tax. With much gusto my honourable friend , the Provincial Treasurer said that he was taking off the heat tax ins ofar as domestic homes are concerned. Fr iends to the right said; Yep, that's pretty good, pretty good. We 're glad that we pressurized them into taking it off. I sai<l then and I say now it should never have been placed on there.

Any government that had the ability, that had the fores ight to know what was for the betterment of Manitoba would never have ' put it on in the first place. And this is why I say, Madam Speaker, the government has alWf!.YS had proposals to get out of the me ss. I say to them, stop getting into messes, so we don't have such discuss ions as we had yesterday. Till now I have been assessing many of the areas of the government in relation to ,the need for high productivity . · We don't want wealth just for the sake of wealth.

Productiviity should be aimed not at the mere accumulation of wealth but at the enhancement of human dignity and well bei ng. Wbat has our government done about providing better lives for the people of Manitoba? It has rejected Medicare despite offers of federal assistance. So far it has said it can't afford it. At the same time it has built up a surplus of provincial revenue in the amount of fifte en millions of dollars if we are to believ e a release from the mini�ter of propaganda dated Jan. 18th.

Madam Speaker, this fifteen mill ion dollars of surplus would have paid the provincial share of medicare under the scheme proposed by the federal g9vern ment. What has the government done about the betterment of the people of Manitoba? It has left large numbers of them living in abject quarters. The poor in Manitoba suffer from wretched housing, poor diet, inferior educational opportunity, excessi ve rates of illne�s and inadequate medical attenti on. They suffer from inequality before the law and economic! in justice.

That people in Manitoba should live in thi s state is a disgrace, a shameful blot on the record of government. : I'd like now to deal with the question of taxation. The disg usting slums in Winnill6g is a measure of the government's lack of planning, lack of consist ency. Today at the sanie time as they make some small effort toward slum clearance they maintain a taxation policy in the province which encourage the continuation of the deteri oration of our urban areas. I' � speaking about the present formula of property assessment which penalize people for carrying out impr ovements to their property.

Slum landlords do not find it profitable to repair !their low rent dwellings to make them more habitable, a more attractive environment; they ,simply let them rot. They. damnthe people living in them. Rot is more profitable for the landlord. More rotten than the resulting tenements is the fact that our government actually enco�rage such practice through its lack of attention to the provinc ial tax structure. ' Wbat about the little guy? The fellow living on marginal income who takes out a! mortgage on an old home and for the sake of a better life for his family improves this home. Wbat aboul him ?

Well our conservative friends, our free enterpris ing friends across ' the way penalize him for his initiative and enterprise by allowing this assessment and theJ;"eby his taxes to be inc reased. Not only that, but the government slaps on taxes on heating fuel and essential or near essential utility service s: telephone, light, power. Taxes whi qh can only hurt low and fixed inc ome groups; taxes which destroy the rationale behind publi� ownership of utilit ies, that of distri buting wealth by supplying essential services at the lowest possi ble cost. Now they're going to take some of them off we are told.

The r�movable wi ll cost the government over a year, so we are informed yesterday, of about a milli 9n and a half dollars. At the same time we have the announcement that the government has a fifte en million dollar surplus. The sig nifica nt factor though, Madam Speaker, is that the Pr�mie r's statement of yesterday was that he with drew the taxes, not because he felt them to be wrong in principle. In fact, he said, if the province needed money he would have left them dn.

He removed them, he stated yesterday, because he didn't need the money and because pu)llic outrage was such that he felt the pressure was too great to .. .•...• •• with an election ii n the offing.

96 February 8, 1966 (Mr . Paulley cont'd) ... Yes, Madam Speaker, I didn't congratulate him yesterday for the removal of the tax. I won't today. The imposition was wrong in the first place and the removal was wrong because the reasoning was·not correct. The Premier has learned nothing. He reacts like Pablo's dog -- conditioned response. If the public screams, take it off. It' s the same rickety rotten tax structure that makes the government's grandiose schemes as outlined in the government's speech so unimpressive to me.

A massi ve and basic reorganization of the tax structure in Manitoba will be required if these schemes whatever their details, are ever to be upped into effect and people on low and fixed incomes are to continue to own homes and property. There must be relief from property taxation in this province. And I mean rea l relief. Not more tomfoolery schemes like the so ca lled tax rebate which takes money out of one pocket and puts it in the other with little change where handling charge is donated to the government in between. I mean we must have a fundamental division of the tax structure.

But before I suggest what necessa ry reforms are, let me make the following remarks. It was easy, ex tremely easy to make destructive critici sm, to find faults with the existing administration. I must admit my friends across the way are easier to find fault �i th than most. But if I were in the Premier 's chair, someone could find fault, even with me, if he looked hard enough. But if someone found fault with rile my first question would be, what is your alternative ? Sure, this is what the Premier must have thought yesterday as the Leader of the Opposition so ably presented his address.

I say my friends this is a valid question. It is a question that could have been asked yesterday of the Leader of the Opposition during his criticism of the government. It is a v alid qu�stion that ca n be asked of me today. But wl.l:i.ke my honour able friend on my right I hope to suggest some alternativ e, for the Leader of the Opposition had no alternativ e and I think this is because his Party does not differ in any fundamental manner from the Conservati ves. Change of Conservative Government for Liberal only changes fac es.

That is why there were no alternatives yesterday, for they would do the same thing as the government at present in power in Manitoba if they were over there. May I say Madam Speaker, they just ain't going there. I have the honour to lead a party which makes its business to have alternative policies; it has alternativ e policies because it has a fundamentally different attitude towards the proper functions and functioning of government. I now propose to suggest some alternatives to the present policies the government could follow, · beginning with an alternativ e niethod of taxati on.

Let me preface my remarks by sa ying that we New Democrats see taxes as having three definite functions: First, the redistribution of wealth. Second, tax units of wealth and not of the individuals. Three, to supply revenue for the services of the public. OI1 the basis of the acceptance of these three principles we may say, services to property only should be provided by property taxation; services to people should be provided by other sources of revenue. This was our proposition during the election of 196 2. Following that election the Murray Fisher report came out endorsing our contention.

We contend that the province should assume greater share of the burden for education, welfare and health. ·Why do we advocate this fundamental change in tax structure ? Functions given to mtinicipalities by the province are too great for municipal revenue sources. Disparity in standards of welfare, educa tion, healtli services throughout the province prevails because of the different wealth content of the municipality. Standards of services in these areas should be the same for every Manitoban, and only with the government undertaking services to people can this be achieved.

Inequity of imposing extremely heavy burden on people of low and fixed income. It is difficult for them to retain their homes with constant rises in municipal ta:kation. Pro' perty taxes are inequitable beca use they are not related to earning power. These sources tax the person and not his wealth.

To further remove the burden of taxation froni property taxe s to benefit those on low income, and to encourage repairs and improvements to exis ting buildings and properties a New Democratic Government would first of all make the first two thousand dollars of assessme nt on homes exempt from taxation, reduce the percentage of taxation on buildings; necessa ry revenues for services to property would be obtained from taxation on land. The last me asure mentioned would also reduce speculation in the price of land.

A new democratic government would operate on the principle that rev enues. needed to provide services for which we accept soc ial re sponsibility should be collected by taxing the wealth of the community as distinct from taxing the people who live in the community: TaX ation based on this principle means that the incident of taxation must be imposed not per capita but rather per unit of wealth possessed by the taxpayer. Equally important, impose taxation

February 8, 1966 97 (MR. PAULLEY cont'd) ..... in such a manner as to make it unlikely that taxes will be passed on from those who possess wealth to those who do not. Profess ionals and business men faced by increase in taxes pass these on as added cost to the consumer by raising the prices of their services. A New Democratic Government would gradually expand social responsibility for . payment of es sential services by the community at large, which would result in a reduction of user taxes which are not collected from the general wealth of the community.

This principle has been accepted in the case of esse ntial services, such as fire protection, police protection. road service s and general government administration. Nobody pays the police a fee when they catch a man who robbed him. You don't have to pay cash on the barrelhead before firemen put out your chimney fire. They're ess ential services for which payment is made by the community as a whole. . ........... continued on next page

98 February 8, 1966 (Mr. Paulley cont'd) ... A New Democratic Government would incl 1;1de public transit, domestic use of telephones, electric light, power and water supply, in the category of essential services to be provided at public cost. We believe that society should accept its responsibility. As its responsibility the supply of a minimum standard of these services at public expen se, with the individu al becoming personally responsible for payment beyond the use of his standard.

By minimizing user taxes now paid for such services and by making these utilities available to the people in our community a social expens e, a New Democratic would be more, far more equitable in the distribution of the affluence, which has been, and is, more and more, being made avail able with the extension of technologi cal change in revolution. A new democratic government in an effort to redist ribute wealth and to enhance the dign ity of our poor and underpri vileged would give serious consideration to the imposition of negative income tax, or as what is more popularly lmown, the guaranteed ann ual income.

Such a measure far from being a drain on society' s resource it would be an economic boon. It would elimina te man y of the administra tion costs of our present welfare schemes. Would allow trained social workers to elimina te much paper work and thereby give them more time to devote themselves to actual case care. Would give the poor and underpri vileged greater purchasing power thus increasing demand for goods produced by our ind ustry.

Would give unemployables the wherewithall to Sllplport their families while being engaged in retraining -- a start, a basic step toward halting the waste and improper utilization of our human resources. A waste, Madam Speaker, which has been estimated cost our nation six billion dollars a year in idle produ,ctive. capacity. I realize that such a step is not a panacea. Corrosive effects of continued poverty have already warped some human personalities to the point where they are almost beyond being reclaimed.

We recognize the need to remotivate some of our hard core poor as is necessa ry as insuring them of having adequate inc ome. However, this proposal would be a step, a stel that will better prepare us for future effects of the technological changes and revolution. It is neither econo mically wise nor socially feasibl'e to allow middle income people to use as use of a computer increases.

Having dealt reasonably fully with taxation I now wish to discuss, in somewhat less de tail, with the policies of the New Democratic Party which they would develop to deal with the problems of economic growth, education , ind ustrial development, agriculture and better social services. Earlier I menti oned that one of the major factors limiting our growth poten tial was the lack of skilled man power, due in turn in part declaring inadeq uacies in our edu cational system.

My former colleague, Ed Schreyer, dealt v.,ith our educ ational policy rather fully last session, and this will be done again at a later date. But I suggest that there should be more adequate· provision for retraining on and off the job in anticipation of the growth of a situation through technological advances where the average person may have to change the character of his employment four or five times in t.he course of his life. We should ensure that our educ ational system makes adequate provision for preparing people for leisure. These are major needs of modern educational systems.

Needs which are not being met at the present time. What of our more immediate needs ? We propose an education al system which has as its base three major goals. 1. Upgrade and make univ ersally available not just elementary and secondary educ ation but post-secondary education which includes technical and vocational training as well as uni versity. It means removing the economic bar, the removal of tuition fees for technical and vocational education and univers ity education.

The second goal is to provide comprehensive skilled training at the senior high school level, and at adult level by way of training, skilled training and retraining programs. 3. Concrete plans for the pro vision of continuing educ ation programs as a prepar ation for leisure. To accomplish these aims we would provide such addition al facilities as regional colleges of general education . Sort of junior colleges which would prepare people who had not had matriculation for uni versity and also would supply a better educa ted person for our labour market.

Regional post-secondary technica l vocational schools with residences attached. We should make our schools the centre of community educational cultural and re creational activities through expanding their facilities. Madam Speaker, I realize that much of this has been sketchy but we hope before the session is over to fill in some of the blanks. However, this program of education would pro vide us with a pool of skilled manpower neces sary to attract ind ustry.

February 8, 1966 99 (MR. PAULLEY, cont 1d) .... In earlier discussing our lack of economic growth because of the lack of skilled manpower, I documented the fact that our skilled were going to other parts of Canada and to the United States for better wages. This poses the question: how do you fight this trend? First of all, I suggest, with more enlightened labour legislation. Again in this field my development will be rather sketchy, but I say to my honourable friend the Minister of Labour expansion will follow.

One thing we would do if we were the Government of Manitoba, without fear of chasing industry away, would be to raise the minimum wage to $1. 50 an hour with parity for women and parity for regio ns. We would rem ove repressive and discriminatory trade union legislation from the statute books. We would raise the actual basic per capita income through the method of taxation I mentioned earlier. Another factor inhibiting our economic growth is our seeming inab111 ty to attract sufficient industry.

The present government has adopted the tactics of throwing up hands in frustration and wailing 11 They just won 't come here". This 1s as a result of a commi tment to ... myth of free enterprise. Let me tell you a New Democ rat" Government wouldn •t sit back and do nothing if industry would not locate in our Provin ce. If we can' t attract private capital we would develop the necessary in dustry with public capital, in the following manner; By establishing three giant public corporations .

A Manitoba Development Corporation to mobilize funds to invest in equity capital in local industry, and finance major industrial development by the establishment of crown, corporations. 2. A Manitoba explorations agency to conduct exten sive ma pping of the mineral resources in the frontiers of Manitoba. We would see that the newly proposed youth and man power agency would establish a core of youth to participate in the exploration of mineral resource s. We would establish a large scale market research agency.

The imme diate establishment of a primary chemical industry in Manitoba on a regional basis, so as to encourage the development of secondary industry by local private capital and co-ops. In consultation with Ontario would add a gradually increasing royalty to nickel, which would not be applied to nickel consumed in the Province by industrial users. In other words, as more of the products of our mines were used within the confines of our Province then there would be lesser royalties having to be paid on that portion of the mineral extracted.

Manitoba and On tario produces 80 percent of the world •s nickel; 98 percent of this is now exported. Manitoba has large deposits of chrom lte and abundant cheap hydro electric power. These factors are all that are required to develop a large stainless steel industry in the Province -- and we would see that the industry was developed. A New Democratic Government would increase the attraction to live in Manitoba by improving necessary social services, to name but two. The imme diate implem entation of Medicare. A government sponsored au tom obile insurance scheme.

We will be developing other thoughts later in the session. A New Democ ratic Government would dedicate itself to the complete eradication of poverty in our Province. The taxation measures I've already suggested would do much to promote this. The industrial development of our policies would also help. We would take such other steps as are necessary, but we'dg o all out, not indulge in half-hearted approach which characterizes the present Provincial Government.

The report on poverty by Headland and . ... to which I made reference earlier included this statement on poverty; 11 This situation exists, not because it is unavoidable, but because we have not tried to aYOid it. The waste in economic , term s is shocking enough, but th£re is even greater waste in hum an terms". These, Madam Speak er, are some of the observations which I lay before this House for its consideration; suggestions of alternatives to the present Governm ent of Manitoba.

I realize and I am convinced that they will not be acceptable to many members in this Hous e, both to my right and across the Chamber, but I do think, Madam Speaker, that they are proposals thl t are worthy of the consideration of all of the people of Manitoba. And because I believe this, I challenge the First Minister and the Conservative Government of Manitoba to cease malarkyism, to cease sitting on the fence, to give the people of Manitoba an opportunity of adopting a party with progressive and forward looking ideals.

I challenge the Government of Manitoba to dissolve this House and to call a general election. We have no fear of what the results will be -- and as the Attorney-General has said 11 Let 1s go". And Madam Speaker ; I agree with him , "Le t's go". Manitoba can no longer go backward as it has been doing despite the flowery terminology contained in the Throne Speech; it is time for Manitoba to get ahead . So Madam Speaker, it is my pleasure to move an am endment to the amendment seconded by the Honourable Member for Seven Oaks as follows:

10 0 February 8, 1966 (MR. PAULLEY, cont 'd) . .. . 11 That the amendment be amended by striking all the words after the word governm ent in the last line and substituting the following : Has failed to produce a blueprint for the orderly and progressive development of Manitoba which would enhance the well being of its citizens ; and have failed to in troduce taxation policies which are fair and equitable, and has thereby lost the confi dence of this House '' . MADAM SPEAKER presented the motion. . ............ continued on next page

February 8, 1966 101 MR . FROESE: Madam Speaker, unless someo ne else wishes to speak, I would move adjournment. MR . J. P. TANCHAK (Em erson) : .... as there is no objection, I think I can just about fill in the last few minutes we have before the adjournment. · Madam Speaker, I am happy to see you occupying the. Chair again and I � ish you well and I hope that you will not have too much trouble to keep us in order here in this session. I would like to congratulate the mover and the seconder in reply to the Throne Speech by His Honour. I think both of these members ma de a wonderful presentation.

They gave· us a little more insight into their own constituencies, and I hope that the Honourable Member from Churchill will see his dream realized, as he said, that at last the North ma y be considered. I would like to congratulate the sergeant-at-Arms for again occupying the Chair here in this Hou�. · · I listened with interest to the Honourable the Leader of the New Democra tic Party and it seems to me there isn't very much new that he had to tell us.

He seems to be af'ritid of the two ma jor parties, just iike a little puppy who sometim es is cornered in a sm all corner, he will turn around and snipe a little bit at one of his antagoni�ts and then turn to the other side and snipe at the other one - but still backing out into the corner _ _; snipe. And I think that's· where he will stay. · ' He would like our tax structure to change. I think it has been. tried iii at least two pro:.. vinces in Canada, and I presume that the same tactics were used there, and for some reason this party did not stay in power there too long.

In both plabes they have been kicked oilt, and they rema ined so, and I doubt whether ever in the future they will ever attain the height to be the government of any one of those provinces. They like to riat�onalize business and then tax this business. I wonder what would happen as it happened iii Saskatchewan or othe'r provinces where industry and businesses have been natiomilized ? Now most of them, if.n ot all; w�nt bankrupt. And if these businesses go bankrupt, I wonder where the governm ent would get the taxes ? In ma ny instances these businesses had to be aubsicllied.

Where will the money to subsidize come from if all those businesses are nationalized ? · Now coming to the Throne Speech, I think there is a lot that could he said on the Throne Speech. It indicates that the government is about to launch a "crash" program , as my leader has said yesterday. A crash program to iiriprove the lot of Manitoba -- and this althoUgh the same Throne Speech tells us that Manitoba is in a period of unprecedented prosperity and wealth or grovith. But the facts do not bear this out. Government by this Throne Speech admits its own failure of the past eight years.

If we are in the midst oflinpreced enteci pros perity, surely some of ·these improvements could have been accomplished in the last eight years -- last eight years of Roblin administration, And if they were accomplished, if only a fraction of them were, a crash program would not have been neces sary at the present tim e. But they adm it their failure imd to try and put Manitoba back on its feet then the government comes out with this crash program. To me it seem s, by reading this program, that the Roblin government was willing to let the chips 'fall at random in Manitoba.

In most depart:.. ments the government was satisfied to let the ship drift without a c aptain, without any good leadership whatsoever. And now the Roblin government feels that it must, iii a pre:.. election outline of legislation resort to a crash program after they have been hibernating in dorm.ancy the past eight years. (Interjection)· Oh, ho, ho, is right. Self platitudes never get anywhere . . . . . used to say, rm a good boy. But the other people should say it, or leave it to the other people to say it.

I notice that ma ny proposals in 1966 are simply a repetition of the proposals that were given to 'us in 1959. Pick up the Throne Speech and you will find quite a bit of simil arity there. I will just give you one example and I'll quote this: Ih 1959 the Roblin go vernment said this, "You'll be asked to approve an expansion and improvement of agricultural services iii farm man agement. " That's in 1959. Now on Thursday, February3, 1966, agafu the Roblin government says, "My Ministers inform me that the contiriuing trend in agriculture indicates the need for farm man agement consulting services.

" The need was there in 1959. The need is here in 1966 . Doesn't that indicate that nothfiJ.g lias been done iri these seven and eight years ? After eight years I would say it is time for a crash program with proper leader- ship. . · . We are ·promised a crash program in education and the Throne Speech refers to is as phase No. 2 in our educational field. I would say that the crash program of this venture is absolutely necessa ry here in education and I wish good luck to the present Minister. After

102 February 8, 1966 (Mr . Tanchak cont' d) •.. seven years of bungling in many rural areas by the present Roblin government and the for mer Minister, we need a crash program to survive in our educational field. It's absolutely neces sary; if it's not too late now. Phase No. 1 is not completed yet. as the government would like us to believe, and I would say, apply this crash program in phase No. 1 before you proceed with phase No. 2. The promise of equal opportunity for every child in Manitoba has not been realized yet -- far from that.

In over one-half of the rural divisions the students haven't equal opportunity to learn in Manitoba. Many in these rural areas, high school students, still attend one, two, three, four and five room high schools and so on. Is this equal opportunity to all ? No. Equal opportunity of learning? I would say definitely not. The division plan as it was out lined by the Royal Commis sion on Education was an excellent plan but the Roblin government scuttled it. I said that before and I say it again, because I know it is true. And most of the people living in these areas in rural Manitoba will agree.

They scuttled this program by not shouldering the responsibility, by being weak-kneed and substituting expediency for res ponsibility, and that' s how the plan was scuttled. I say to the present Minister, crash back to phase one and clean up that mess -b ecause it is a mess in rural areas, in many rural areas, and I'm sure that the Minister will agree with me if he's honest with himself, that it' s a mess in many areas, and it is.

Eight years of bumbling certainly created a necessity for this crash program and I have a quotation here from the Manitoba Teachers Society in its newsletter of November 27th where it criticized the government for lack of planning and leadership -- lack of planning and leadership. Something is wrong when we lose over 300 teachers to other provinces - our educated teachers, and I would say this is a brain drain costing the people of Manitoba pro bably millions of dollars, and we're losing them. Something is wrong in our education al system. That' s why I say phase one is not completed.

Why is Manitoba lagging in curriculum reform? So every year we hear the same story -- it's going, we're doing it, we're changing it. How many years ? I'll agree that some changes are necessary every year, but the main changes, the basic changes, the time for those changes was long past due. I have a clipping right here -- it's in today' s Free Press, and the heading is "School no longer happy days, " -- no longer happy days. We used to like to refer to those school days as happy days. They're no longer happy days.

And this is a quotation by the former Minister of Education -- not the former Minister but one. of the former Ministers and a former employee of the Department of Educ ation, Mr. Robert Bend. And here is what he had to say, "P ressure on the average high school student these days is so fantastic that many are cracking under the strain' 1, said a former Minister of Education. In some schools of Greater Winnipeg Grade 10 courses have been changed; in others it is the ninth grade that has been changed. Some of the courses are experimental type courses. This means that they are being taught for the first time.

These changes make it difficult for both pupil and teacher said Mr. Bend, and some students simply can't keep up with it. That' s lagging in the curriculum reform. . I would like to pose another question. After eight years of this administration why does Manitoba rank as eighth among the provinces in provincial government spending in public school educ ation ? Why is that so ? There is an answer to that -- our economy. But another an EJNer closer to home -- right within the government and the department -- the answer is very simple. Lack of proper planning and lack of leadership.

I'll get a chance to speak on education again. I'd like to go into another phase and ask another question. Why should Manitoba lag behind other provinces in ind ustrial development ? In 1959 the cry of the Roblin government was, "We'll promote industrial development in Manitoba a nd we'll diversify it. " That' s in 1959. Now in 1966, we hear the word from the government -- and this is taken from the Throne Speech: "Small industry of the province is hindered by lack of satisfactory indus trial research. " Was n't there enough time? We are lagging behind. Statistics -- DBS statistics, tell us that. They do.

We are behind. And all this after eight years of higli sounding words and platitudes about our industry. It's not enough to get a little button, a little praise from som ebody. It' s the result that counts, and we haven't got results. We are lagging behind. High sounding words plus offices will not promote industrial develop ment alone. No. I wo uld say that some elbow grease is necessary instead of running around the country officially opening rinks, halls and so on. Wasting time, instead of tending to the

February 8, 1966 103 (Mr. Tanchak cont'

d) business of the government for which the people of this province elected us, and especially the Ministers of the Crown. A crash program now is being promised in the highway construction. Simply in one little sentence. Oh, we need it. We need that. And I would say that all of southern Manitoba has been neglected in the last eight years. There was some done -- a little bit here and a little bit there. Hardly anything properly finished in southern Manitoba.

I' d have to admit that around Winnipeg some work has been done and in the northern part some work has been done, and if the government wishes credit for that it ma y be taken. And I forgot Gimli. I'm sure there was some work done in Gimli. But the rest of Manitoba, especially southern Manitoba. has been neglected. Thousands of Manitobans are still driving on 19th century roads and 20th century roads were promised to all Manitobans. These people, driving on 19th century roads are still eating and breathing dust. The Health Minister wouldn't like that.

I listened last Sunday to the program "Our Government" and I heard the First Minister, the Premier of Manitoba, promise the people of Manitoba dust free roads, and the exact quotation was "The kind they want. " "We'l l be giving you dust free roads, the kind the people of Manitoba want. '' He was talking to all the people of Manitoba, all over the province. Many Manitobans will hope that this time, at least, the Minister will keep his promise, because some of these promises have not been kept in the past.

I reme mber eight years ago when some of the Cabinet Ministers came into my area, they promised those people, said "You are the pioneers here. You're one of the first people who came here. It's a shame that you haven't got a dust free road. " That' s eight years ago. They still haven't got it. Still not there. I see the Honourable Minister of Public Works smiling. I hope he means well. I would say that in Manitoba as a whole the highway construction has been in a dormant state since at least 1960, with a few exceptions, as I said before. There has been a lot of propaganda, a lot of publicity, but not much action.

And a lot of pubUcity. The government got double or triple publicity on the same project. I have exampl es of that. A program would be announced, 20 miles of hard surfacing, say in 1963, but it wasn't completed --may be a mile or two done. Next year the same thing is repeated. The government gets pub licity again -- another 20 miles. And the third year if it happens to be completed, a third time they get the publicity.

So it gives the impression that this government is building roads; but this government is not building roads any faster at the proportional rise, if you take, say, all the way back from 1955 and draw a line across the top, the amount of money spent on construction, proportionately this governme nt is not spending any mo re than any of the former governments spent. And I said here, "The government roes not act unless pushed into action, " and here is one example, and this is the Portage freeway. A ten mi llion dollar crash program was announced last year. A good thing.

That should have been done years ago, it should have been started several years ago. For two years the Honourable Member for Portage la Prairie pleaded with the government to undertake this project. The government said No. Traffic deaths piled up on this highway and still the governm ent said No. They even told us how stupid a program that would be. After two years, in 1963, the honourable member brought in this resolution. It was turned down. In 1964 it was turned down again, in the spring. But what happened ?

A month or two later the government, although it was a stupid proposition, they told us, the government announced a crash program - a 10 million dollar crash program to Portage la Prairie. We're happy that the governme nt, that we on this side, and especially the honourable member for Portage la Prairie was able to convince the governm ent and that finally they saw light. Now it hurts me to downgrade Manitoba like that. I would like to praise it. I would like to stand here and announce that Manitoba is the best place to live in on this earth.

Yes, I'll still say that Manitoba is a very good place on this earth to live, and I'll still say as far as I am concerned it is the best, and that in spite of the ineptitude of the present government Manitoba is still, is still ma king some progress. . •. ..... in spite of the governm ent, and it is carried on the crest of the wave of our national prosperity, and that's how we are mak ing a little bit of progress.

But how much better would it be, if instead of boasting, or in stead of. crying about being last here and there and so on, how much nicer would it be if we could �)ay that we were first in this and in that, in educ ation and highways and so on. We cannot say that because we are not first. And I'm ashamed to adm it that we are last in so man y different aspects of our economy.

104 (Mr . Tanchak cont'd) ... And I have some to prove here. Here is a clipping, and this is the Free Press, December 7th. It says: "Poverty Defined. " rm not going to read it all; "fu Manitoba the larger proportion of the people on farms results in a larger proportion of the deprived. Residing on farms, close to 30 percent of the poor are on farms. " Hereis another one: "More than two-fifths of the farm operators in Manitoba live in a state of poverty as defiil.ed by the Manitoba delegation to the Federal-Provincial Conference on Poverty and Opportunity.

The report submitted by Manitoba to the four days discussions on the poor state that in Manitoba today that statistics reveal few unemployed, but it added that not less than 20 per cent of the people in Canada exist at or below the poverty line of the national .average. 11 Now I have another one, and this is a very recent one, number three: ''City' s growth smallest of big canadian centres. " We're last. rd like to boast of being first.

"The popu lation of Calgary on June 1st last year was estimated at 323, 000, showing the greatest per centage gain, 15. 7 per cent, of any metropolitan area since 1961; the Dominion Bureau of Statistics reported today. Its population in the census was 279, 000 in 162. Winnipeg with a 2. 9 per cent increase, was the lowest recorded. " We're last. Nothing to be proud of. And why are we last ? I think the government should shoulder the responsibility. for that. In eptitude. Inaction. . _ . . _ . He�e is another one •.

This is the Free Press, Februa.rY 7th. i•ih e Wiimipeg metJ:o-:. politan area showed the l�est population growth of eleven 1Daj or c�tles, 'with. an increase of ollly 2. 9 per cent, 11 And here's anothe'r last.

"C ity faces crisis in retarded cases; Man,ic toba has lost it!! leading role in the treatment of retarded children, according to the presi dent of their Association for Retarded chiidren in Greater Winnipeg, Mr, 1\fcCaskill' s re port said Winnipeg, _the birthplace of the Canadian Associa tion o:i: Retarded ·Ch ildre n., -will no lon.ger be a leader in the country. 11 And Manitoba will be lagging,s tllrfiirther bebin,d most other provinces. · A last again.

And that's why I say r d like to boast' of a _few firsts, but as long .as this government is so inactive I do not think tha� it will .be _able. to boast .of a few firsts. · · · · · .The same thlng could be said about industrial develo pment in Manlt\>pa, W'� are at the bottom of the totem pole, and I have mentioned that. Health facfiui�s 'are lagging. · After eight �ears of this administration the sick are still sufferi ng due to lack ·�f hospital facili�es, and i think that's the same .

Of course there's a crash program now, and I hope th.3.t this' crash program will work. . . ·. . ,, . . . ' .. ,. ' ' As I said before, education is in a sorry plight. The san:ie applies f() agriculture, . natural resources, and all the way down to the last department. ,, ., ', · . . ' ,.,, . There' 8 a quotation -1 have it here - from the 1959 Thrcme Speech, lilld here fs what it says: "In southe�stern Manitoba special emphasis will be given to the developinent cif re:. sources, to increase opportunity for residents of this area to ·earn 'a satisfaqtory llv el:lh oOd, 11 That was in 1959.

Now seven years or so later the situa,tion is no better: In so�e aspects. it' s even worse. Drainage in this area is inadequate in spite of the pro!Dise to solve. this problem, and it was several �f the Ministers who promised to solve this prql:JleJl1, but it ' hasn't been solved. Spring floodillg in the Red River Valley still prevails, a:D,d,the costly Red River Floodway promises no protection for the residents south pf Ste. Agatlie: Although action was promised nothing has been done.

Even this year's crasj:t progrrup_, neglects this area completely. - _ .. · · _ , , · _ . , As I said before, pr9V:lncial roads in southeastern Manitoba ar\l fliT behfn.d the. 20th. ' century, which have been promised to the people. The governmen-t does nqt_ seem to have. a definite program of improvement for this area. Just throwing in .a C.Oill l)lultity , pasture or two here and there isn't sufficient, because a considerable portion of this area is most ex cellent farming agricultural potential. All it needs is a little bit ofdevelopmen t, but it' s not being done.

The ARDA funds are available for these purposes -- ARDAfunds from the Federal Government. Sure,' the Provincial Government has to ma.t.ch the s�m; but they're available for agricultural development purposes, and I ask the Government t� consider southeastern Manitoba in this respect. · If they can't do it any other. way maybe thf_s will help. Millions of dolla� s of Arda money is being spent on projects w�i'ch have no relatioil , to agricultur e whatsoever. · No relation. Why not spend money avah�_ble. wherf1 it would do most good and what it. was intended for? . - . .. . . . . . .. .

Now rn go to the project at Birds Hill. It' s a recreational pa,rk w�<:ll (!(.)�.t AJitDA •. close to a million dollar s - - $900,000 to be exact. Half and ha:if; half the provfuce and half

February 8, 1966 105 (Mr. Tanchak cont'd) •.. -- and I have the book right here. I can read it from the book, ARDA projects. How much does this help agriculture ? Not much probably, except to squeeze the farmers out of their area and squeeze them out of their livelihood, I suppose, and I would like to say that if this was a marginal area the present government helped to create the greater part of that mar ginal area by digging this Floodway through there, and thus depriving the people of their source of water supply, then declare it a marginal area.

And I have no objection to the ' Birds Hill project, the recreational area. I guess it's in close proximity to the city of Winnipeg -- it's necessary for the people to get out. And I notice that the Roblin govern ment takes a lot of credit for this project, Birds Hill park, but the people should know that half of the ARDA money which went into it was supplied by the Federal Government. Now I notice it's almost time. I would like to sum up in a few words what I have said.

In my opinion, the Roblin government, by the text of the Throne Speech, admits that it has failed to give Manitoba the kind of planning and leadership that the citizens of Manitoba potentially are entitled to. A crash program like the one outlined would not have been neces sary if the government had been alert and active in the last eight years. The government since 1959 failed to create a solid enough base to sustain this program. I doubt very much whether Manitoba has the leadership and the capability in the present Roblin government to carry out this program. MR.

FROESE: Madam Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Fisher, that the debate be adjourned. MADAM SPEAKER presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. MR. ROBLIN: Madam Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Minister of Industry and Commerce, that the House do now adjourn. MADAM SPEAKER presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried and the House adjourned until 2:3 0 Wednesday afternoon. FRENCH SPEECH - Page 72, February 7, 1966, Hansard MR.' MOLGAT: Je tiens tout d'abord Madam a vous f�liciter et'a vous saluer en francais.

Je sais que vous apprenez cette langue depuis un temps de deux ans et je profite de l'occassion de vous saluer dans la deuxieme langue officielle de notre assemblee. Je note aussi que le prem�er ministre 'a eu l'occasio n de faire de nombreux discrurs en francais en particulier 'a l'occasion de la campagne federale ou U est allEf dans la province de Quebec, je note que ses discours au Quebec n'ont pas toujoors le meme son que ses discours au Manitoba et que ses declarations ne sont pas tout a fait en ligne non plus avec ses actions dans cette province.

TRANSLATION I would first like to congratulate and greet you in French. I know that you have been learning this tongue for some years and I take advantage of this occasion to salute you in the second official language of our Assembly. I note also that the First Minister had the occasion to make many speeches in French, particularly at the occasion of the federal campaign when he went in the Province of Quebec. I note that his speeches in Quebec don't always have the same tune as his speeches in Manitoba and that his declarations are not always in line either with his actions in this province.

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	27-5-4
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	27th 5th hansardpdf 4.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	e5e128b38c7dc240677b6cfc650b8d53f468d004

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