Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 26 (32nd Legislature, 4th Session)

32-4-26

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session - Thirty-Second legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS (HANSARD) 34 Elizabeth II Published under the authority of The Honourable D. James Walding Speaker VOL xx·xm No. 26 - 10:00 a.m., FRIDAY, 12 APRIL , 1985. Printed by the Office of the Queens Printer. Province of Manitoba ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Second legislature Members, Constituencies and Political Affiliation Name ADAM, A.R. (Pete) ANSTETT, Hon. Andy ASHTON, Steve BANMAN, Robert (Bob) BIRT, Charles T. BLAKE, David R. (Dave) BROWN, Arnold BUCKLASCHUK, Hon. John M. CARROLL, Q.C., Henry N. CORRIN, Q.C., Brian COWAN, Hon. Jay DESJARDINS, Hon. Laurent DODICK, Doreen DOERN, Russell DOLIN, Mary Beth DOWNEY, James E. DRIEDGER, Albert ENNS, Harry EVANS, Hon. Leonard S. EYLER, Phil FILMON, Gary FOX, Peter GOURLAY, D.M. (Doug) GRAHAM, Harry HAMMOND, Gerrie HARAPIAK, Hon. Harry M. HARPER, Elijah HEMPHILL, Hon.

Maureen HYDE, Lloyd JOHNSTON, J. Frank KOSTYRA, Hon. Eugene KOVNATS, Abe LECUYER, Hon. Gerard LYON, Q.C., Hon. Sterling MACKUNG, a.c., Hon. Al MALINOWSKI, Donald M. MANNESS, Clayton McKENZIE, J. Wally MERCIER, Q.C., G.W.J. (Gerry) NORDMAN, Rurik (Ric) OLESON, Charlotte ORCHARD, Donald PAWLEY, Q.C., Hon. Howard R. PARASIUK, Hon. Wilson PENNER, Q.C., Hon. Roland PHILLIPS, Myrna A. PLOHMAN, Hon. John RANSOM, A. Brian SANTOS, Conrad SCHROEDER, Hon. Vic SCOTT, Don SMITH, Hon. Muriel STEEN, Warren STORIE, Hon. Jerry T. URUSKI, Hon. Bill USKIW, Hon. Samuel WALDING, Hon. D. James Constituency Ste.

Rose Springfield Thompson La Verendrye Fort Garry Minnedosa Rhineland Gimli Brandon West Ellice Churchill St. Boniface Riel Elmwood Kildonan Arthur Emerson Lakeside Brandon East River East Tuxedo Concordia Swan River Virden Kirkfield Park The Pas Rupertsland Logan Portage la Prairie Sturgeon Creek Seven Oaks Niakwa Radisson Charleswood St. James St. Johns Morris Roblin-Russell St. Norbert Assiniboia Gladstone Pembina Selkirk Transcona Fort Rouge Wolseley Dauphin Turtle Mountain Burrows Rossmere lnkster Osborne River Heights Flin Flon Interlake Lac du Bonnet St.

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LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Friday, 12 April, 1985. Time - 10:00 a.m. OPENING PRAYER by Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER, Hon. J. Walding: Presenting Petitions . . . Reading and Receiving Petitions . . . Presenting Reports By Standing and Special Committees . Ministerial Statements and Tabling of Reports . Notices of Motion . . . Introduction of Bills . INT RODUCTION OF GUESTS MR. SPEAKER: Prior to Oral Question s, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery where we have 110 students of Grade 6 standing from the Shamrock School.

They are under the direction of Miss Maggie and the school is in the constituency of the Honourable Member for Niakwa. On behalf of all of the members, I welcome you here this morning. The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. G. FILMON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if I just may add to your introductions that we have students from Chapman School, Grade 5, under the direction of Mr. Weber in the gallery as well. They happen to be in the constituency of the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: They too are, of course, welcome here this morning. ORAL QUESTIONS Birds Hill Prov.

Park - Tree nursery, closing of MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Oppositi on. MR. G. FILMON: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Honourable Minister of Natural Resources. Has a decision been made to close down the tree nursery at Birds Hill Provincial Park? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Natural Resources . HON. S. USKIW: Mr. Speaker, I believe the Estimates of the department are up next week and we will be dealing with that, but I could confirm that one, yes. MR. G. FILMON: I wonder, Mr.

Speaker, if the Minister could indicate what will be done with the employees who are involved in that operation? HON. S. USKIW: The Leader of the Opposition would recall that there is a policy in place where we attempt to redeploy all of our staff that have to be laid off and that has been a successful m�ans of dealing with that 835 kind of problem over the last couple of years. it's my understanding that between retirement and redeployment there will be no adverse effects on employees. MR. G.

FILMON: I wonder if the Minister can indicate what will be the new sources of the trees that will be required in provincial parks. Will they be contracted out for? HON. S. USKIW: Yes, it's the opinion of the department, Mr. Speaker, that we can acquire the trees that we normally produce at Birds Hill at a great, far less, or below what it costs us to produce them ourselves and we will be dealing with the private sector. A MEMBER: The old private sector comes to the rescue. Life insurance and pension management study- government entry into MR. G. FILMON: Mr.

Speaker, speaking of the private sector being able to provide them at a more economical rate, leads me to a question to the Minister responsible for MPIC. I wonder if he can indicate whether or not his department, or he, have yet set up a meeting with the leaders of the insurance industry In Canada to discuss their proposal to enter the life insurance field? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Housing. HON. J. BUCKLASCHUK: Yes, that question was asked, I believe, last Wednesday and it's certainly being attended to. A meeting will be held as soon as possible. MR. G. FILMON: Mr.

Speaker, has the Minister contacted the leaders of the industry to reappoint for the cancelled appointment of last week? HON. J. BUCKLASCHUK: A Minister responsible for the MPIC is like any other minister, he depends upon staff to do that, and I have asked staff to make that arrangement. Certainly I haven't been in contact personally with the individuals involved. MR. G. FILMON: Has the meeting been set, Mr. Speaker? HON. J. BUCKLASCHUK: I'll take that question as notice and check with my staff . Boiaaevain Land Titles Office - coat of operation MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Turtle Mountain. MR. B.

RANSOM: Mr. Speaker, in the absence of the Minister of Government Services, I'll direct my question

Friday, 12 April, 1985 to the First Minister. Would the First Minister undertake to provide information to the House as to the total costs of operating the Land Titles Office in Boissevain; those are, the costs incurred by the Department of Government Services? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable First Minister. HON. H. PAWLEY: Mr. Speaker, I'll accept that question as notice on behalf of the Minister responsible for Government Services. Boissevain land Titles Office - proposed use of building MR. B. RANSOM: A further question to the First Minister then.

Will the First Minister also undertake to provide the House with what plans the government has for the future use of the Land Titles Office in Boissevain, of the building, should the government proceed with its earlier decision to close down the Land Titles Office; and will he also indicate whether or not the government has any plans to terminate lease arrangements that the government has with the municipality for the rental of office space for other government services in the town? HON. H. PAWLEY: Mr.

Speaker, that question will be accepted as well as one of notice on behalf of the Minister responsible for Government Services. Student Aid Branch - backlog status of applications MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Morris. MR. C. MANNESS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Acting Minister of Education. I'm wondering if the Minister can indicate the present backlog status with respect to applications being considered by the Student Aid Branch? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Business Development. HON. J. STORIE: As the Acting Minister of Education, Mr.

Speaker, I'll take the member's question as notice. MR. C. MANNESS: Mr. Speaker, my sources indicate that so many students have been denied that there's an unprecedented number -60 or 70 in number -that are waiting to have appeals heard by the Student Aid Appeal Board. I'd ask the government, why have so many students been denied and what does the government plan to do to shorten the appeal process, which I understand today is some four to five months in length? HON. J. STORIE: Mr.

Speaker, not to cast aspersions on the member's sources, we have found in the past that they have not always been that accurate, but I will certainly take the details into consideration. MR. C. MANNESS: Mr. Speaker, what is the problem here? Would the Minister please tell us whether the 836 government has run out of funds and whether they are trying to save the process to the new fiscal year when there would be funds? What is the problem and why is it taking so long for these appeals to be processed? HON. J. STORIE: Mr.

Speaker , disregarding the honourable member's indignation, this government has done more than any other to ensure that students have access to university. Mr. Speaker, we take a back seat to no one in terms of the student aid that we provide. Mr. Speaker, I have given the member an indication that we'll take his question of notice. If the appeals process is backlogged then we will look into that, Mr. Speaker, and we'll correct those problems. I reject his insinuation that somehow the Student Aid Program isn't doing the job for Manitobans. Mr. Speaker, his facts are wrong again. Shellmouth Dam - water levels MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Roblin Russell. MR. W. McKENZIE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Honourable Minister of Natural Resources. I wonder if the Minister can advise the House and especially the people that live out in my constituency why the water levels of the Shellmouth Dam have been drawn down to such levels that it's concerning a lot of people in the area. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Natural Resources. HON. S. USKIW: Mr. Speaker, I'll have to take that matter under advisement. I'm not aware of it. Manitoba Oil & Gas Corpation - percentage interest in new oils MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Virden. MR. H. GRAHAM: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Honourable Minister of Energy and Mines. Some weeks ago, I asked him some questions in the House and so far the Minister has not provided me with an answer. Could the Minister indicate whether he is having trouble getting the information or whether or not he intends to answer? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Energy and Mines. HON. W. PARASIUK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'm pleased that the member has actually raised the question because, I think, for about three or four times I waited toward the end of question period and I was up a number of times towards the end of question period, wanting to provide the answer and there were questions being asked of a fairly long nature and I wasn't able to provide the answer. I've had it for some time. The member asked what was the percentage interests of the Manitoba Oil and Gas Corpora tion in the

Friday, 12 April, 1985 Waskada-Cromer Pipeline. The original intent, and this was neg otiated between Manitoba Oil and Gas Corporation and ICG, was that Manitoba Oil and Gas interests would be 25 percent and ICG's interests would be 75 percent. That was determined in the summer of 1984.

Howe ver, there were discussions also taking place with Omega Hydrocarbons and they had discussions with ICG which is the operator of the pipeline which culminated in both the Manitoba Oil and Gas Corporation and Inter-City Gas Corporation reducing their shares in the pipeline and taking in Omega Hydrocarbons as a partner in the pipeline development. So, the situation now is that Manitoba Oil and Gas Corporation has a 10 percent interest; Inter-City Gas Corporation has a 60 percent interest, so both reduce their interest by 15 percent apiece and Omega Hydrocarbons now has a 30 percent interest in the pipeline.

MR. H. GRAHAM: I thank the Minister for that answer. � The Minister indicated that the original intent was 25- ' 75 with the province and Inter-City Gas. Can the Minister indicate the date that proposal was first agreed on? HON. W. PARASIUK: Yes, I believe this was agreed. I couldn't give an exact date. I believe it was agreed on in the summer of 1984. It probably would have been the month of August. MR. H. GRAHAM: Is the Minister saying the summer of'84 or the summer of'83? HON. W. PARASIUK: I'm saying the summer of'84.

That's when the actual negotiations between Manitoba Oil and Gas Corporation and Inter-City Gas Corporation concluded. MR. H. GRAHAM: Can the Minister then explain his press release of February of 1984 in which he indicated that ManOil and Inter-City Gas were the successful bidders on a tender for the construction of the pipeline? If in fact the agreement was not signed until June, how could they be successful joint bidders in February? � HON. W. PARASIUK: Very, very easily, Mr. Speaker. Inter-City Gas indicated in their application that they wanted to have Manitoba Oil and Gas Corporation as a joint venture.

That was an agreement in principle, but the specifics of the agreement had not been worked out. MR. H. GRAHAM: A further supplementary to the Minister. I had asked the Minister, could he indicate what the time frame was of the original agreement with Inter-City Gas? Was it summer of'83? HON. W. PARASIUK: The time frame was the summer of 1984 and then by October 5th, the agreement was changed so that Omega Hydrocarbons had a 30 percent interest and both the other partners had dropped their interest by 15 percent apiece. Evans Report - Medicare in Manitoba MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Thompson. 837 MR. S.

ASHTON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is in regard to the report on Medicare in Manitoba by Robert Evans. Yesterday in this House in committee there was considerable concern expressed about a copy of that report that had been quoted from by the Member for Pembina and the source of that report. I'd like to ask the Minister whether he now has a copy of the report of Dr. Evans. A MEMBER: He wasn't listening; try again. MR. S. ASHTON: I'll restate my question for the benefit of the Minister. MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. The Honourable Member for Thompson. MR. S.

ASHTON: I'd like to ask the Minister whether he has a copy of the Robert Evans report on Medicare in Manitoba, which was subject to considerable debate in this House yesterday. HON. L. DESJARDINS: I wonder if the member would ask the question again and if they can let me hear it this time. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. I think we'd all like to hear the question. The Honourable Member for Thompson. MR. S. ASHTON: I'm sure we all would, Mr. Speaker.

The question was in regard to the Evans Report, the report which was subject to considerable controversy yesterday, the question for the Minister is whether he has a copy of that report which was described in detail yesterday by the Government House Leader . HON. L. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker, a couple of days ago I advised the House during the debate that actually what I had was an executive

summary of the document. It has about seven or eight pages. That is the only thing that I had seen. The member had asked me if it would be made public. I told him that it was a working document, that it should be handled carefully because it was only that, a working document, that I wouldn't commit myself to giving him any and every working document that we had, but this one, that we would do it, then to my surprise I read in the news media and the Free Press yesterday that there was a document out, of 145 pages.

Yesterday my honourable friend was quite happy to pull out, dramatically -to pull out a box to show this document. SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. HON. L DESJARDINS: This document, Mr. Speaker, I phoned this morning and I had it delivered. It was hand delivered to me this morning. I remember the description that was given yesterday, it seems to be exactly the same as my honourable friend. - (Interjection) - I don't know, I might make the offer if my honourable friend has it. Maybe we can compare

Friday, 12 April, 1985 it right in the centre here, in front of everybody, the one that magically appeared on his desk. Mr. Speaker, it's a pretty sad state of affairs when people can bring in stolen documents in this . . . SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. The Honourable Member for Thompson. MR. S. ASHTON: Perhaps, Mr. Speaker, the members of the opposition don't need to ask questions about this particular document since they seem to have sources other than the official sources, the legal sources which others in this House are subject to.

I'd like to ask the Minister if he could indicate some background of the report and also the credentials of Dr. Evans, for those of us who haven't had access to stolen goods. SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. That could well be a more complicated question seeking a longer answer, which could be better be supplied at Health Department Estimates, which are currently before the House. The Honourable Member for Pembina on a point of order. MR. D. ORCHARD: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, the Minister seems to have difficulty in getting his story straight, and on the point of ord er, I want to point out that on Page 707 of Hansard, Tuesday, April 9th, in the answer to two questions the Minister goes from saying, "Mr. Chairman, that's why I don't know the name because I haven't seen it yet It's not completed." For the second answer, the same . . . MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. That is not a point of order. That is an argument that the member might better make in debate. The Honourable Member for Thompson. MR. S.

ASHTON: Yes, perhaps I'll ask the question more specifically, and that is, exactly what are the credentials of Dr. Evans? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Health. HON. L. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker, this is the document that I had, entitled, "Manitoba Medicare Executive

Summary." It has 18 pages and the other document has 245 pages. A MEMBER: What about Dr. Evans? HON. L. DESJARDINS: I'll talk about Dr. Evans if you'd just keep quiet for one minute. Mr. Speaker, I think this is important. I'm not that concerned about the document I certainly don't encourage people to steal documents and break into offices, but I think the important thing here is that this document not be misused and that we do not do the people of Manitoba 838 a disservice - (Interjection) - I wonder if they can just refrain a minute and listen? I think, Mr.

Speaker, the important thing, it is a document prepared by a very well known and respected economist and some people from the department also. I! is the economist for the Hall Commission, the well respected Hall Commission. It is a document that the medical profession will have. It is a working document that we will work on to see if there are some changes that I've been talking about that could come about. It is not government policy as yet It is a document that, before last night, and it's the first time I have it in my hand, this document - (Interjection) - And that's a damn lie, Mr.

Speaker, from the Leader of the Opposition, who said I tried to hide it from the public. It's a damn lie. SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. Order please! The Honourable Minister knows he cannot use that language in this House and he will kindly withdraw his remarks. The Honourable Minister of Health. HON. L. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker , this was something that I wrestled with for a long time. When somebody says something that they know is wrong, the dictionary says it's a lie. Apparently we can't say it's a lie.

I'll just say he's a stranger to the truth in here and I'll withdraw the statement that I made that he lied and I think he should be man enough to apologize when he said - (Interjection) - just a minute -that I'm trying to hide that from the public, when Hansard will show that I said that I would give this to the public. SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. May I remind honourable members this is Oral Question period and not a time for a debate. The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. G. FllMON: I just want to make the record clear.

The Minister seems to be sensitive and he obviously hasn't heard. I turned to my colleague and asked him why he wants to hide it from the public. I did not . SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. Order please! Casino - hours of operation MR. SPEAKER: The Honoura ble Member for La Verendrye. MR. R. BANMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question to the Minister of Lotteries. Yesterday the Minister confirmed that the government has extended casino hours to start at 11 o'clock in tile morning before lunch.

Could he now confirm that the government is offering people who shm, up before

lunch, the first several hundred people, five dollars each to spend on the roulette and blackjack tables so that they can start gambling early in the morning? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Culture. HON. E. KOSTYRA: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, the government is not offering any patrons what is being suggested.

I will take the question as notice as to whether or not the Manitoba Lotteries Foundation, as the corporation that is charged with the responsibility of operating lotteries in this province and the operation of casinos in co-operation with not-for-profit groups is indeed doing what is suggested, and I'll provide a report to the member once I have that information. MR. R. BANMAN: Mr. Speaker, since the government and since the Minister yesterday advised us that the casino hours have been extended to start before lunch.

Could the Minister now confirm also that the board of directors that runs the Manitoba Lotteries Foundation is appointed by an Order-in-Council by this � government? HON. E. KOSTVRA: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I can confirm that the Board of Directors of the Manitoba Lottery Foundation, like the Board of Directors of the Manitoba Telephone System, like the Board of Directors of Manitoba Hydro, like the Board of Directors of other Crown corporations are appointed by Order-in-Council by the government, yes. MPIC - delay in settling claims i\llR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Minnedosa. MR. D. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister responsible for the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation. In view of the number of complaints being received about the delay in settling Autopac or MPIC claims, could the Minister now inform the House and the people of Manitoba what policies are now in place to speed up the process of settling these claims? � i\llR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Housing. HON. J. BUCKLASCHUK: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. There certainly have been some delays in settlement of claims, some two months ago, as a result of the inordinate number of accidents.

That backlog is certainly being addressed and I'm not aware of any serious problems at the present time. MR. D. BLAKE: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister inform the House of the average time length of settling claims with MPIC? HON. J. BUCKLASCHUK: Mr. Speaker, I don't have that information at my fingertips, but certainly, I'll take that as notice and report back to the House. Children's Aid Society - Reorganization of MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Community Services. 839 1985 HON. SMITH: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, on April 3, I was asked questions by the Leader of the Opposition having to do with the transition to the new regional agencies in GAS Winnipeg. I took questions as notice about whether all employees had been transferred to the new agencies. Mr.

Speaker, all staff have been offered a new position with the following exceptions: one staff member has joined the staff of the department in a capacity for which that person is well-suited; six members of CAS Winnipeg are remaining on the payroll of the interim board to staff the central file system -they will eventually come under the Child and Family Support Branch in the provincial department; a small number of staff retired by their own choice; one accepted early retirement; a small number have resigned to accept other positions; 169 through redeployment jointly administered by the union and management have, in fact, completed their deployment.

There were three appeals, one of which was withdrawn, and two were allowed and upheld. The remaining staff are members of the Child Care Workers Group. They staff the receiving homes and three group homes. They will be administered for an interim period by the interim board until a decision is made as to the appropriate location for an expanded and improved Crisis Emergency Service. We expect that decision by the end of June. Until that time, the present services will remain available. The next question had to do with whether there was a greater staff complement than before.

I should draw to the House's attention, I did refer to the fact that in the consolidation we were amalgamating CAS Eastern - I said "Western," I should have said "West Region," that's the one that was operated directly by the department in the Charleswood-St. James area. It was the West Region and of course CAS of Winnipeg and these three were redistributed into the six regional. There is a slightly greater staff complement. The original services in the city had 197 full-time employees.

The new system will have 215, but of this, six are the equivalent of Central administration staff that were in the department and managing the West Region. In addition, eight community workers have been assigned to do primarily preventive service, so they account for eight of the 12 new people and the other four are the executive directors of the new agencies. However, it should be clear that the repriorization of funding has accomplished this change and it hasn't required additional funds. There was one other question about emergency services.

The after-hours emergency service is going to continue for the time being at 114 Garry Street operating from 4:30 p.m. until 2:00 a.m. It will cover the weekends during the days as well. By the middle of May, there will be a widely publized central emergency number. It looks at this point as though it will include a wider range of services than we have been able to offer up to now. Mr. Speaker, the last question was whether or not the new system was more bureaucratic and cumbersome than before and, again, the people in the

Friday, 12 April, 1985 field confirm that smaller agencies, where there's a neighbourhood base, greater ease of access and a single worker per family, is, in fact, less bureaucratic and less cumbersome. Urban Capital Project - Tabling of MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Fort Garry. MR. C. BIRT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Urban Affairs. In the Speech from the Throne, there was reference made to a five-year urban capital project with the City of Winnipeg.

Is the Minister going to be handling this by way of legislation and when can we expect this to be tabled in the House? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Health. HON. L. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker, I'm not under the impression that legislation is needed for that. It'll be discussed during the Estimates of Urban Affairs. It's pretty well agreed between the City and the department for the first year -we're trying to work on a five-year program as the honourable member mentioned. MR. C.

BIRT: I'm sorry I missed part of the answer, but I believe you said you're going to be dealing by way of agreement -is that it? -with the City of Winnipeg. HON. L. DESJARDINS: I said that I did not feel that legislation was needed. I was under the impression my honourable friend asked if there would be legislation. Legislation is not needed in that we would deal with that during the Estimates of the Department of Urban Affairs, and that the first year, there's been an agreement between the City and the department. As far as the first year is concerned, we're working for the full five years. MR. C.

BIRT: Has the Minister or his staff entered into negotiations with the representatives from the City to lay out the framework for this agreement? HON. L. DESJARDINS: Yes, I've had meetings with the chairman of the committee involved with the mayor, the deputy mayor and others, and we've discussed that. MR. C. BIRT: Keeping in mind that the process for establishing the capital budget for the next fiscal year is now starting, when is it the Minister's intention to have this agreement finalized so that they will know how to plan their capital budget for the next year? HON. L.

DESJARDINS: I thought I had made it clear that for this year has been finalized. There's been an agreement tor this year. MR. C. BIRT: It's for next year, the'85-86 capital year. They're currently in the'84-85 capital year, but the negotiations to be completed so that the City can start planning their'85-86 capital year. 840 HON. L. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker, that's the year I'm talking about. I'm not talking about last year. The year we're in, that was dealt with a year ago during the Estimates review of this year. We're talking about the year that starts April 1 of this year. That's the year I'm talking about.

A MEMBER: That's not the year he's talking about. MR. C. BIRT: The information that I have as of yesterday from the City of Winnipeg is that no discussions have been carried on with this Minister about the five-year capital project and that they are now attempting to establish the capital program for the next fiscal year for the City of Winnipeg. My question to you is, when will this government be in a position to finalize their negotiations with the city so that they can establish their next capital program? HON. L. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speak er, for your information, my honourable friend's information is wrong.

This year is taken care of; it's been agreed. There have been meetings dealing with the five year -the way we would like to do it. There has been acceptance in principle by the members of the council that were at this meeting with me in my office, and that is being worked on at this time. The intention was that both the city and the province would have a list. At first I think the debate was that it was supposed to be all conditional grants and there has been, I think, some discussions on that and they've agreed.

I requested they bring their list and we would bring their list and reconcile that and then we'll talk about the others. For this year, we've agreed that there would be a certain amount that would be unconditional and that was announced, so I don't know where my honourable friend got his information. Sugar beet industry - assistance to MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Rhineland. MR. A. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Agriculture. Can the Minister tell us whether he has any further recent information from Ottawa, regarding the sugar beet industry in Manitoba? MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Agriculture. HON. B. URUSKI: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I met with the Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board earlier this week, late one evening, and we discussed what moves the Federal Government was considering . We dis cussed the whole area of stabilization and the Minister indicated to me that they would be making a decision next week.

We did discuss the whole area of stabilization and one of the areas that should be considered by the Federal Government is in terms of allowing the imports that do come into this country to be levied, whether it be one-quarter or one-half or three-quarters of a

cent, to cover the stabilization that is needed for Manitoba, Alberta and Quebec producers to deal with the question of incomes and negotiations with the sugar beet company. Those kinds of discussions we had, but we have no further reply from them, Mr. Speaker, at this point in time. MR. A. BROWN: My question is to the same Minister. Has this government made a decision to follow the Alberta Government's lead, who have committed themselves to keep the industry alive by subsidizing the producers at $10 per ton in Alberta? HON. B. URUSKI: Mr.

Speaker, I find it unusual that at a time -and historically the Federal Government has stabilized incomes of producers in the sugar beet industry, and now we find the Federal Government asking the provinces to bail them out, and they are clearly reneging on their responsibility to the industry in this country. There are other ways of dealing with the question, Sir. We find, Mr. Speaker, it very discouraging that the Federal Government is now shifting federal-provincial relations in a way that provinces are being asked to bail them out from projects and responsibilities that they should undertake. Mr.

Speaker, we were unable to compete with the Alberta Treasury several years ago in the canola industry. We have great difficulty in dealing with this question. The responsibility really lies with the Federal Government and their commitment to the sugar beet industry in this country. Sugar beet industry - layoffs MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Labou r. HON. A. MACKUNG: Yes, Mr. Speaker, on April 10th, the Honourable Member for Fort Garry, in a question to this House indicated a concern about the Manitoba Sugar Company .

He indicated that that company employs 200 people on a full-time basis and that doubles to 400 to 500 people during the winter season. He wanted to know whether or not this Minister had received notice of layoffs. I indicated to him that to my personal knowledge, I had received no notice. I am given to understand that the sugar company employs a year-round staff of 100, and during the fall processing season -that is a 90- to 100-day period -100 extra in-plant and 50 in-field sites. I wish to confirm that I have received no notice of layoffs. I've checked with staff and that is the information.

MANDAN line show-cause hearing - re abandonment of MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Lakeside. MR. H. ENNS: Mr. Speaker, a question directly to the Minister of Energy. The general manager of the Nebraska Utilities Group, Mr. Don Schuffleberger (phonetic) is expressing concern and surprise that he 841 1985 is being summoned to a show-cause hearing by the North Dakota State Power Commission to show why the route permit for the now defunct MANDAN Line should not be abandoned. My question simply is to the Minister, is he or the Manitoba Hydro officials taking any action to express similar concern? MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Energy and Mines. HON. W. PARASIUK: Mr. Speaker, the responsibility for the line, if the line was to be built south of the border, is the responsibility of the American owner of the line. The power is bought at the border and the line is the complete and total responsibility, and owned totally, by the utilities south of the border. t" don't know why they're being asked to go before the Commission and that certainly is a part of the business that is taking place with respect to the MANDAN Line over the last three or four years.

There have been instances where Nebraska has taken the South Dakota Power Commission to court; when the South Dakota Power Commission tried to stop them from proceeding. So that basically is done within their context of law and their rules and proceedings, but Nebraska deals directly with North Dakota. We don't deal with agencies south of the border on that matter. MR. H. ENNS: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the Minister's answer and acknowledge that, yes, our responsibility goes to the border, but as I understand it, Manitoba has invested some $4 million to $6 million in preliminary work with respect to that route .

I ask the Minister, that's a $4 million to $6 million interest that we Manitobans have in maintaining that route permit. Would the Minister not concur with that situation? HON. W. PARASIUK: Work has been done. Work was done over, I think, about a four-year period or five year period in terms of the right route selection and there was a very involved consultation process with local groups. I think that added to the cost and certainly Manitoba is interested in various possible sites for transmission lines down into the United States.

We certainly watch, with interest, what Nebraska is doing, and Nebraska, I believe, would want to retain that route because they said that although the American partners for the MANDAN Line may not feel that they have sufficient demand or are looking at other alternatives themselves, they still hope that in the future a line of that type would proceed. So we certainly will keep a watching brief upon this. Manitoba Oil and Gas Corporation - Percentage interest in new oil ·wells MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Turtle Mountain. MR. B. RANSOM: Mr.

Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Energy and Mines. The Minister of Energy and Mines indicated a few days ago that the Manitoba Oil and Gas Corporation had been pa rticipant in bringing in three oil wells.

Friday, 12 April, 1985 I wonder if he could advise the House who the partners were and what percentage interest the ManOil Corporation has in those wells? HON. W. PARASIUK: Yes, Mr. Speaker, two of the wells are located in the Virden field and they're operated by Tundra Oil and Gas of Winnipeg; the other well is in the Ebor area and was drilled by Newscope Resources, which used to be in Manitoba and is now in Calgary. These wells were drilled on lands posted and acquired by the Manitoba Oil and Gas Corporation in the October 24, 1984, Provincial Crown land sales.

So the Manitoba Oil and Gas Corporation then acquired the lands and organized buy-ins and partnerships with the people who drilled the wells and the corporation has retained varying net working interests in the wells, which range from 40 to 50 percent. I couldn't give you the specifics as to which one is 40 percent from what well, but the range is 40 to 50 percent for those three wells. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The time for Oral Questions has expired. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Lakeside on a point of order. MR. H. ENNS: No, Mr. Speaker, I rise on a matter of privilege. Mr.

Speaker, the breach of privilege that I'm referring to occurred last night during the Committee of Supply sitting in consideration of the Department of Health's Estimates. Towards the evening of that Session, Mr. Speaker, the Government House Leader attempted to intimidate, harass my colleague, from carrying out his functions in the examination of . . . MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. Order please.

Before the honourable member proceeds, he should be aware that the proceedings of a committee cannot constitute a matter of privilege for the House unless that committee makes a special report to the House on that particular topic. The Honourable Government House Leader. HON. A. ANSTETT: Mr. Speaker, by leave, I move, seconded by the Honourable Minister of Health, that the report of the Standing Committee on the Rules of the House received by the Assembly on April 10, 1985 be referred to the Committee of the Whole House for consideration. MOTION presented and defeated. MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Government House Lead er. HON. A. ANSTETT: Mr. Speaker, I apologize to the House. My understanding was that leave would be granted. It would be my intention then to move the House into that committee on Monday, so that we can deal with the Rules Report. 842 I will then move that Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into a Committee to consider of the Supply to be granted to Her Majesty.

MOTION presented and carried and the House resolved itself into a Committee to consider of the Supply to be granted to Her Majesty with the Honourable Member for Concordia in the Chair for the Department of Health. SUPPLY - HEALTH MR. CHAIRMAN, P. Fox: The meeting will come to order. The Honourable Government House Leader. HON. A. ANSTETT: Mr. Chairman, I realize it may be a little inconvenient; it may take some time for staff to arrive, but I am going to suggest that we sit in two committees so that we can take full advantage of the House time. We had planned on dealing with the Rules Report.

I had had an indication we would have leave to deal with that. Since we are not doing that, sir, I think I have to, as House Lead er, make the best use of House time and ask that both committees sit. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is that agreed? (Agreed) The Honourable Member for Minnedosa. MR. D. BLAKE: On a point of order, I wonder if I could ask the House Leader what two committees he plans to have sit. MR. CHAIRMAN: Two sections, not two committees. HON. A. ANSTETT: Mr. Chairman, the Committee of Supply

section in the House will be considering the Estimates of the Department of Health. That

section sitting in Room 255 will be considering Highways Estimates. MR. CHAIRMAN: Order please, order please. Is the House ready to proceed? We are in the Health Estimates, Item 2.(g). The Honourable Member for Rhineland. MR. A. BROWN: Thank you. Yesterday I spent some time on this particular item and I wonder if the Minister could elaborate on external agencies and give us some details as to what has happened in the various external agencies. MR. CHAIRMAN: The Honourable Minister. HON. l. DESJARDINS: I covered all that yesterday and I gave all the line-by-line, all the information on that. MR. A.

BROWN: I apologize to the Minister. I wasn't here the last couple of minutes of last night's Estimates so I don't know just exactly which areas have been covered. We were discussing yesterday the problems that we have in certain areas where relatives are looking after

their parents and who have difficulty getting anybody else to look after them as far as home care is concerned, who cannot receive the kind of care that is required. I wonder can the Minister tell me, are these people going to be qualifying for Home Care Assistance? HON. l. DESJARDINS: Mr. Chairman, it's obvious that the Health critic has gone to get some of his notes and I would suggest that maybe we wait for his return. MR. CHAIRMAN: Very well. HON. l. DESJARDINS: Unless there's other questions on topics that were not covered yesterday. We were practically finished this issue yesterday.

I think there were one or two questions left that the member wanted to ask. MR. A. BROWN: Mr. Chairman, that is correct. I believe we were almost finished with this particular area but the critic did have a few questions that he did want to ask and I'm certain that he's going to be back here in a little while. None of us knew that we were going to be ... HON. L. DESJARDINS: We'll wait. Mr. Chairman, I move that committee rise. MR. CHAIRMAN: It's been moved that committee rise. Is that agreed? (Agreed) Call in the Speaker. 843 1985 IN SESSION HON. L. DESJARDINS: Mr.

Speaker, the only motion that was made was that this committee rise. The other committee is going on. There's not the - (Interjection) - no, there isn't, the other committee's on. It's supposed to be. MR. H. ENNS: I'm really at a loss at what's going on. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The Chairman reported upon the Committee's deliberations to Mr. Speaker and requested leave to sit again. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Lakeside on a point of order. MR. H. ENNS: Mr.

Speaker, I don't think it's possible for the Session to be in session and some other division of a Committee of Supply attempting to carry on in committee. So, Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for St. Norbert that the House do now adjourn. MOTION presented and carried and the House adjourned and will stand adjourned until until 2:00 p.m. Monday.

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	32-4-26
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	32nd 4th hansardpdf 26.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	e5f3c83bacfddb441611a193ede82a6a9c0cac35

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