Second Session, 43rd Parliament

Official Report

of Debates

( Hansard )

Wednesday, April 29, 2026

Afternoon Sitting

Issue No. 167

The Honourable Raj Chouhan , Speaker

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

Contents

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Statements

Nanaimo Clippers

George Anderson

Members’ Statements

Farmers Markets and Support for Agriculture

Harwinder Sandhu

Experience as Cancer Survivor

Brent Chapman

Burnaby South Secondary School STEM Team and National Competition

Paul Choi

Edison Motors

Scott McInnis

Tod and Jocelyn Maffin and Nanaimo Infusion 2026

Stephanie Higginson

Port Truckers and Truck Tag System

Harman Bhangu

Question of Privilege (Speaker’s Ruling)

Oral Questions

Burnaby Hospital Expansion Project and Cancer Care Centre

Misty Van Popta

Hon. Bowinn Ma

Long-Term-Care Facility Project in Delta

Ian Paton

Hon. Bowinn Ma

Regional Transit Services for Sea to Sky Corridor

Jeremy Valeriote

Hon. Mike Farnworth

FIFA World Cup Security Provisions and Costs

Macklin McCall

Hon. Nina Krieger

FIFA World Cup Hosting Costs and Role of Federal Government

Lorne Doerkson

Hon. Nina Krieger

Teresa Wat

Hon. Mike Farnworth

Police Services and Staffing in Communities During FIFA World Cup

Bryan Tepper

Hon. Nina Krieger

Scott McInnis

Kristina Loewen

Hon. Ravi Kahlon

FIFA World Cup Security Costs and Tickets

Trevor Halford

Hon. Mike Farnworth

Orders of the Day

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Health (continued)

Brennan Day

Hon. Josie Osborne

Scott McInnis

Anna Kindy

Misty Van Popta

Jody Toor

Motions Without Notice

Deferral of Divisions

Hon. Mike Farnworth

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of the Whole

Bill 16 — Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 2026 (continued)

Macklin McCall

Hon. Nina Krieger

Jeremy Valeriote

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Mining and Critical Minerals

Hon. Jagrup Brar

Kiel Giddens

Gavin Dew

Wednesday, April 29, 2026

The House met at 1:32 p.m.

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: Korky Neufeld.

[1:35 p.m.]

Introductions by Members

Hon. Kelly Greene : It’s my honour to welcome the delegation from school district 38; that is, Richmond.

We are joined today by our trustees. We have trustee and board chair Ken Hamaguchi,

trustee and vice-chair Heather Larson, superintendent Christopher Usih and secretary-treasurer

Cindy Wang.

If you can all join me in making them very welcome.

Sheldon Clare : It gives me great pleasure to introduce two visitors from Prince George. We have

in the gallery Brent Lukoni, who worked at CN Rail and B.C. Rail since the 1980s,

and Shawn Bortolon, who was a CUPE executive member and Indigenous education worker

with school district 57.

I hope that the House will make my friends most welcome.

Amna Shah : I’m so pleased to welcome some very special guests in the gallery here today. We

are joined by the delegates of the NCCM, the National Council of Canadian Muslims.

These are not just members of the National Council of Canadian Muslims; these are

advocates in our communities here in British Columbia and across the country. They

are here to speak with members about matters that are pertinent to the Muslim community

all across this country.

Now, I don’t want to mention names because we’ll be here all day, but would the House

join me in making them feel so welcome here today.

Bryan Tepper : I would like to join in, in welcoming the NCCM, the National Council of Canadian

Muslims. It is an independent, non-partisan, non-profit organization dedicated to

protecting human rights and civil liberties in Canada. Founded in 2000, the NCCM has

grown into the country’s largest Muslim advocacy organization, with a nationwide network

of supporters across Canada.

I would like to thank, actually, our candidate from Surrey Centre as well, which was

part of our last speaker there, for bringing Zeeshan Wahla, being part of the organization

and helping organize this.

Hon. Niki Sharma : I am pleased to have two introductions today.

I’ll start with the first one. A dear friend is visiting that I went to law school

with, who is an engineer and a lawyer — what a combo. So if everybody could make my

friend Robert Joseph feel very welcome.

I also have a class visiting from Van Tech, which is a pretty awesome school in my

riding. They have a great teacher named Chris Moon, who is very passionate about teaching

that generation about democracy and governance. I had a chance to meet with them not

only in Van Tech but also just a few minutes ago in my office.

I don’t know if they’re here. I can’t see them, but please make them feel welcome.

Anna Kindy : I have the pleasure of introducing my two CAs, Charlotte Roth and Louanne Menser.

I can say truthfully, from the heart, that I am in really good hands.

Thank you for being here today from Campbell River.

Hon. Jessie Sunner : I’m pleased to recognize leaders today from the University of Victoria, which is

a university that provides made-in-B.C. solutions to priorities that are facing our

province.

Today joining us in the gallery, we have President Robina Thomas, along with her colleagues,

who are strengthening our health care capacity, our clean energy and the responsible

use of artificial intelligence throughout our province while advancing B.C.’s capabilities

in aerospace, in space systems, to support economic growth and public interest.

Under President Thomas’s leadership, who is the acting interim president and will

be with the university until the end of June, UVic has advanced a strong model of

Indigenous-engaged research and education, grounded in partnership and shared priorities,

and a tangible community benefit. UVic is expanding access to education while positioning

B.C. to compete and collaborate internationally, in line with our province’s Look

West strategy.

So if everyone would just join me in please welcoming Dr. Thomas, as well as her leadership

team from UVic, here today.

[1:40 p.m.]

Rohini Arora : I also wanted to join some of my colleagues in expressing my gratitude for meeting

with the NCCM, many of the advocates in leadership.

I just happened to see a dear friend up in the gallery, Kabir Qurban, who I initially

met in 2015 working on a campaign for Surrey Centre federally. He has gone on to run

on campaigns, bravely put his name forward as a candidate, and I see him to be a shining

star.

Please join me in welcoming Kabir Qurban to the Legislature today.

Steve Kooner : I have a couple of friends in the gallery, Amrit Dhot and Srikanth Mogulala from

C Face. They do great work in putting on folk and culture events.

Can the House please welcome them.

Hon. Jagrup Brar : Today I rise to recognize members of the C Face Society and 2Cents Care Foundation

who are in the gallery today on this side and, of course, some of them on this side.

From organizing the cultural stage at Surrey Vaisakhi Nagar Kirtan to planning Canada’s

first Bhajan Clubbing concert, these organizations work hard at promoting cultural

unity and engagement across B.C. They do everything to make this province a better

place for everyone.

In the gallery today, I’m pleased to introduce…. We have Srikanth Mogulala; Bhupender

Ladhar; Amrit Pal Singh Dhot, who is also a constituent of my friend the Minister

of Jobs and Economy; Inderjeet Ladhar; Manikanta Reddy Lankireddy; Kanav Sadawarti;

Mukul Seth; and Vaibhav Seth.

I would like to ask the House to please make them feel welcome.

Korky Neufeld : We had a great meeting with members from the Fairleigh Dickinson University of Vancouver

here today. They met with both sides of the aisle. Tonight there’s a reception at

the Union Club at seven o’clock.

I’d just like to make them feel welcome here today.

Stephanie Higginson : Joining us in the House today are members of the team from Hope Air.

We got to meet with you this morning. We have the chief Hope officer, Mark Rubinstein.

We have the vice-president of patient experience, Stephanie Aldridge.

Thank you for the time today. Thank you for everything you do to help make health

care for British Columbians more accessible and equitable. We are so pleased to partner

with you in the critical work that you do and provide to British Columbians.

Would the House help me make them feel very welcome and thank them for the work they

do.

Heather Maahs : Well, April is an action-packed month in my family, so today I would like to wish

my son-in-law Kyle a happy birthday, my mom a happy birthday and my granddaughter

Georgia a happy birthday.

Sunita Dhir : Today we have a group of representatives from Fairleigh Dickinson University, Vancouver

campus. They’re extremely excited to announce their new campus coming to the Oakridge

centre mall in Vancouver this year. They’re also meeting with all members to introduce

the humanics program in health care, which combines data and technology with empathy,

creativity, critical thinking, and so on.

Please welcome Michael Avotroni, Benjamin Rifkin, Mark Chiarello, Lester de Guzman,

Ramin Shadmehr and Seth Li. Let’s give them a warm welcome in the House.

Bryan Tepper : I think they’ve all been mentioned by name, so I’ll be very quick. I recognize the

leadership of C Face Society, my good friends. I’ve got lots of friends here today.

I’m pretty happy about that. We have Srikanth, Bhupender, Amrit Pal and Inderjeet.

Also, it was not mentioned…. I think the Seths were mentioned however. They are part

of the 2Cents Care Foundation and their team.

Thank you for all that you all do.

[1:45 p.m.]

Statements

Nanaimo Clippers

George Anderson : I rise today to congratulate the Nanaimo Clippers on an outstanding championship

season. In game 7, the only thing louder than the crowd in Nanaimo was the sound of

pucks hitting the back of the net.

To my colleague from Cowichan Valley, I say this respectfully: there’s always next

year. We’ll even save you a seat at the game, just maybe not in the winners section.

All jokes aside, to the players of both teams: you’ve made your communities proud,

and you’ve given young people something to look up to.

I hope that the whole House will join me in congratulating the Nanaimo Clippers.

Members’ Statements

Farmers Markets and

Support for Agriculture

Harwinder Sandhu : Every year in our beautiful province, there is a quiet moment when you can feel the

season shifting. The days stretch a little longer, and trees begin to bud. Our communities

gently move into a new rhythm.

For me, one of the clearest signs of spring is the return of our local farmers markets.

Vernon Farmers Market opened on April 16. There is something truly special about that

day back — the sound of familiar voices, smell of fresh baking and neighbours reconnecting

after the season.

I was born and raised in a farming family, and those roots stay with me. In farming

families, we learn the value of hard work, caring for the land and the importance

of supporting those who feed our communities.

As Parliamentary Secretary for Agriculture and food, I also want to recognize that

our farmers markets and our local food systems are strengthened through strong partnerships.

Through programs that support local food production, market developments and initiatives

like Buy B.C., we are helping connect farmers, producers and families and strengthening

our local food economy across the province.

Every week I see that connection in action: farmers bringing their harvest early in

the morning, artisans sharing their craft and families teaching their children where

their food comes from. Those are simple moments, but they are what hold our communities

together.

In the weeks ahead, the spirit continues to grow. The Lumby farmers market returns

over Mother’s Day weekend, and Davison Orchards opens again on May 1 — places where

traditions are built and memories are made.

As spring turns to summer, the Polson Night Market will once again fill our evenings

with the music, laughter and energy that makes this region so special. These places

matter. They remind us that behind every table, there is a person, a family, a story

— all connecting us to the land, to one another and to the hearts of our communities.

I encourage everyone to visit your local market, support our farmers and small businesses

and take a moment to simply enjoy being part of your beautiful communities that we

all have the honour to represent.

Experience as Cancer Survivor

Brent Chapman : About a year ago, I realized the growth on my neck wasn’t going away on its own.

I really didn’t think it was cancer. It was MLA Dr. Kindy who told me in no uncertain

terms that I had to get it checked. I did. I had cancer in my tongue, and it was presenting

on the right side of my neck. A further PET scan confirmed the cancer was confined

to my neck and tongue area.

Admittedly, I was trying alternatives — keto, an array of supplements and visits to

a highly regarded naturopath who specialized in cancer. Nothing slowed the growth.

Actually, it was the naturopath that said: “Brent, it’s time to bring in the big guns.”

So off to Surrey hospital I went.

At the B.C. Cancer clinic at Surrey hospital, Dr. Jaswal was in charge of my radiation.

Oncologist Dr. Yu supervised the chemotherapy. Both were absolutely perfect in tone

and instruction — nothing sugar-coated, yet they understood the emotions I would be

dealing with.

My cancer is treated by an internationally recognized protocol: 35 rounds of radiation

and seven rounds of chemo. Seven weeks — you count down the days. They use as strong

a radiation as possible, and the chemotherapy is meant to sensitize the tumour to

the radiation. They try to avoid surgery, and so far, they avoided doing surgery on

me.

During treatment, I lost about 45 pounds, and apparently, radiation burns 4,200 calories

a day. That’s a lot of elliptical. It was critical that I didn’t lose too much weight,

as there is a risk of altering the depth of the radiation. Also, I had to be strong

enough to keep the treatment going, and I got through.

There’s more, but it all brings me to here — this place, standing in front of all

of you as a cancer survivor. I would like to thank all the people here in this building

who found a way to let me know…. This is on both sides. I can’t tell you how much

that meant to me every day I was trying to get through the steps I needed to take.

[1:50 p.m.]

I know there are years to go, but as of right now, I have been deemed cancer-free.

A lot of people ask me if I asked: “Why me?” I tell you sincerely that my response

was: “Why not me?” There are little kids with knitted caps on their heads facing radiation

and chemo before they even get to go to school. If they can persevere, then I have

to.

I’m not sure how this will sound, but when I ponder the two wonderful women across

the way and all they’re fighting so hard for, that is when I actually find myself

asking: “Why me?”

I don’t have an answer for that, but all I can say is, Joan and Grace, I am pulling

and praying for you as much as I can.

[Applause.]

Burnaby South Secondary School

STEM Team and National Competition

Paul Choi : I rise today to recognize and congratulate an outstanding group of students from

Burnaby South Secondary School in my riding, Burnaby South–Metrotown. Burnaby South

Secondary has been selected as a finalist in Samsung Canada’s 2026 Solve for Tomorrow

competition, a national STEM competition that invites students from grades 6 to 12

to develop innovative solutions to real-world problems.

This is a tremendous achievement. Through this competition, students are not simply

learning science, technology, engineering and math in the classroom. They’re reapplying

and learning through the challenges they see around them. They’re being asked to think

critically, work collaboratively and imagine practical ways to improve their community

and their future. This is exactly the kind of learning we need to encourage.

STEM education is not only about technology. It’s about curiosity. It’s about problem-solving.

It’s about giving young people the confidence to ask, “How can we make things better?”

and then giving them the tools to act on that question.

I want to recognize the students for their creativity and dedication and perseverance.

Reaching the national final is something that they should be very proud of. I also

want to thank the teachers, staff and families who supported them along the way.

Today, right now as we speak, these students will have the opportunity to present

their ideas at Samsung Canada’s headquarters alongside other national finalists. Regardless

of the final results, they have already represented Burnaby and British Columbia with

excellence.

To the Burnaby South Secondary STEM team, congratulations. Your work shows the power

of youth innovation, and you are helping to inspire the next generation of leaders,

problem-solvers and change-makers.

Edison Motors

Scott McInnis : It’s a real point of pride for us in Columbia River–Revelstoke to be home to one

of the most innovative and exciting businesses in British Columbia, Edison Motors,

right in Donald, B.C. Edison is proving that world-class innovation doesn’t have to

come from big cities. It can come from small, determined communities with big ideas.

One of the best examples of this is their youth EV challenge, where students are encouraged

to get hands-on with real engineering, problem-solving and teamwork. We were especially

proud last year when local students from Golden Secondary School took home the win.

Even better, those winning students didn’t just walk away with a trophy. They earned

jobs at Edison Motors, turning classroom learning into real careers right here at

home.

Edison also has a bold vision to become an innovation hub for the province, a place

where cutting-edge businesses can set up shop, collaborate and grow, all while having

access to affordable, functional space. That kind of ecosystem is exactly what rural

and small communities need to attract the next generation of makers, builders and

entrepreneurs.

Anyone who’s been out to the site knows Edison doesn’t take itself too seriously either.

Some of my favourite moments have been the tours that Chase and Eric have taken me

on in a convertible Jeep, sometimes after it’s been left out in the rain the night

before, hitting jumps and always reminding me that innovation can still be a ton of

fun.

None of this would be possible without clear, commonsense regulatory processes. Edison

is quick to say how straightforward and easy it is to navigate approvals with the

Columbia Shuswap regional district. That certainty makes a real difference for businesses

trying to move fast and do things right.

[1:55 p.m.]

Finally, it wouldn’t be Edison without seeing their work on the road, including their

plow truck they built for Emcon, showing how innovation can provide safety, efficiency,

sustainability in real-world applications.

Edison, we couldn’t be prouder of you. Thank you so much for calling Columbia River–Revelstoke

your new home.

Tod and Jocelyn Maffin and

Nanaimo Infusion 2026

Stephanie Higginson : This past weekend hundreds of Americans crossed the border to attend the second annual

Nanaimo Infusion, a gathering organized by Nanaimo residents Tod and Jocelyn Maffin.

up for Canadians, and show up they did.

This event has morphed into what is known as the health care infusion. So among the

crowd were health care workers from the U.S. who came to Nanaimo not just to show

solidarity but to explore what it might look like to build a life and a career here

in B.C.

After the event, we visited the Nanaimo Regional General Hospital, where the Premier

and the Minister of Health got to hear directly from some relocated health care workers

about their experiences living and working in B.C. And let me tell you that these

folks absolutely gushed about working in the B.C. health care system.

They expressed the joy that they get from the collaborative culture that exists amongst

all the staff, no matter what the job. They talked about experiencing community, both

in their workplace and in the broader community, in a way that did not exist for them

in the U.S.

The doctors talked about the relief they feel at being able to offer the best course

of treatment to their patients and know it is available to them and not restricted

by the insurance their patients have. And those with school-aged children gushed about

the B.C. school system, one new recruit saying her son describes the B.C. school system

as making sense in the way that’s organized and structured.

Island Health says that as a result of these international recruitment efforts and

the influx of new health care workers, overtime hours at NRGH have dropped by 24 percent

and dependence on external contractors has declined 23 percent. All the while, patient

care hours have increased.

This event, and the messages delivered to us by the relocated health care workers,

was a powerful reminder of what we’re building together and why it matters to people

far beyond our borders.

Thank you, Tod and Jocelyn.

And to all our American recruits: welcome home.

Port Truckers and Truck Tag System

Harman Bhangu : I rise today to speak about the men and women who keep our ports moving, our shelves

stocked and our economy running: our port truckers. These are hard-working people

who have been through a lot. Governments pushed a rolling truck age program, asking

them to invest in newer lower-emission trucks. Many stepped up. They took on debt.

They modernized their fleets. Then the program was paused.

Now they’re dealing with another layer of uncertainty, the port truck tag system.

Right now those tags are issued for just two years. But the reality on the ground

— these trucks are not small purchases. Most operators finance over five years, sometimes

longer. They are making real commitments based on expectations of stable work. A two-year

truck tag does not match a five-year loan.

Even a three-year truck tag that has been discussed will still not solve the problem.

What happens if a trucker invests, builds up a small fleet and then loses tags just

after a few years? They’re left with trucks they still owe money on but without the

ability to earn. That is not just bad policy; that is a direct hit to small business

operators trying to do the right thing.

A four- or five-year tag would bring alignment. It would give truckers a fair runway,

it would allow them to get close to paying down their equipment before facing a level

of risk, and it would provide the stability this sector desperately needs.

If we want a reliable supply chain, if we want a strong truck port system, we need

to treat port truckers like partners, not placeholders. Give them certainty, match

policy to reality, and let them do what they do best.

Question of Privilege

(Speaker’s Ruling)

The Speaker : Hon. Members, the Chair is prepared to rule on the question of privilege raised by

the Member for Vancouver-Quilchena on Monday, April 27, which was taken under advisement.

The Chair thanks the member for Vancouver-Quilchena for following the correct procedure,

for raising a question of privilege and for her submission on the matter. The member’s

allegations are serious and require careful examination.

[2:00 p.m.]

In her submission, the member for Vancouver-Quilchena outlined that the Vancouver

school board obstructed the member’s ability to perform her core constituency duty

by cancelling, at the last minute, a confirmed booking for a public town hall in a

school facility.

The member submitted that the decision of an administrative body blocked her access

to constituents and, therefore, interfered with parliamentary functions and amounts

to breach of privilege. The Chair understands the importance of a member’s representative

duties and the frustration that may arise when arrangements or engagements with constituents

are disrupted.

At the heart of the question of privilege raised by the member for Vancouver-Quilchena

is the freedom from obstruction that extends to this House and its members. The scope

and application of this privilege have limitations. The Chair must examine whether

this privilege applies to the circumstances at hand.

As noted in Parliamentary Practice in British Columbia , fifth edition on page 384: “Parliamentary privilege is primarily, but not solely,

exercised in the context of parliamentary proceedings.” Fundamentally, privilege is

essential to enabling members to carry out their parliamentary business as outlined

on page 392 of our procedural authority.

Parliamentary Immunity in Canada , by Joseph Maingot, is regarded as one of the pre-eminent authorities on the application

of parliamentary privilege in our country. On pages 223 to 224, Maingot outlines that

to be constituted as a breach, an obstruction must be connected to a member’s parliamentary

work — that is to say, connected with their duty to participate in parliamentary proceedings.

Maingot also notes that while members can experience interference with their ability

to carry out their duties and responsibilities unattached to the work that happens

in this House or a committee thereof, “such situations do not constitute a question

of privilege because they do not relate to the member’s parliamentary work but, rather,

to his or her constituency work or other work in his or her official capacity as a

member.”

The Chair appreciates that the circumstances are unfortunate. However, upon careful

review of the submission of the member for Vancouver-Quilchena and the procedural

authorities, the Chair concludes that the scope of the freedom from obstruction as

a privilege attached to this House and its members does not extend to the circumstances

at hand. It is therefore the ruling of the Chair that a prima facie breach of privilege

has not occurred.

Oral Questions

Burnaby Hospital Expansion

Project and Cancer Care Centre

Misty Van Popta : The Finance Minister stood in this House and assured British Columbians that Burnaby

Hospital redevelopment, phase 2, and other long-term-care projects “weren’t cancelled.”

In the past 48 hours, the staff and doctors at Burnaby Hospital received a letter

from their own executive director, with Fraser Health branding, that confirms in writing

that the alliance contract for the Burnaby Hospital redevelopment has been cancelled

— cancelled, not re-paced. Cancelled — not delayed; cancelled.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Misty Van Popta : Now with no contractors, no architects, no consultants, this puts this project back

to square one and on the shelf with the other broken promises.

Will this minister stand up today and admit that her budget has effectively cancelled

these projects?

Hon. Bowinn Ma : We know how important….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members, let her start first, please. Hold on to your comments. The minister has

the floor.

Hon. Bowinn Ma : We know how important this project is to people in Burnaby, the patients, the families

and the staff in the community. Like other governments across Canada, we are facing

fiscal pressures that require careful choices to protect the services that people

rely on.

[2:05 p.m.]

The Burnaby Hospital phase 2 project was re-paced, and, as a result, the alliance

contract is being cancelled. But although the construction contract has been cancelled,

planning work will continue by the Fraser Health Authority and the province.

We are, further, currently considering 25 recommendations from the independent review

panel and will be working towards refreshing plans to ensure that the project continues

to be delivered and meets the needs of the community.

The Speaker : Member has a supplemental.

Misty Van Popta : It wasn’t just the contractors that were cancelled; it was the architects as well.

The minister can call this re-pacing, but Fraser Health has called it cancelled. The

thousands of construction workers who just lost their contracts call it cancelled.

The patients waiting for cancer care at Burnaby call it a broken promise. It has been

confirmed that all Fraser Health projects were cancelled this week.

Will this minister confirm if contracts for Kelowna, Campbell River, Fort St. John

and Squamish are now also cancelled?

Hon. Bowinn Ma : Fraser Health is making the necessary administrative decisions that flow from the

decision to re-pace several projects in the health authority. However, the Fraser

Health Authority’s primary project team continues to be in place. They will continue

to work with the ministry and the province to get these projects ready to go.

Long-Term-Care Facility

Project in Delta

Ian Paton : The people of Delta rolled up their sleeves and raised nearly $20 million to build

a long-term-care facility for their community. This was a government-approved project.

Apparently, getting approval from this government is no longer credible. Today the

contracts to build that facility have been cancelled. This is not re-pacing.

Will the minister stand in this House today and tell the families of Delta when this

cancelled project will start again?

Hon. Bowinn Ma : We understand that it is disappointing to hear that a project that your community

has been looking forward to has been re-paced.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Hon. Bowinn Ma : But the reality is that we have been seeing cost escalations across the province

on projects, oftentimes exceeding what is reasonable for taxpayers to expect to be

delivered from their investment. Long-term-care projects that were re-paced were coming

back with cost estimates of up to $1.8 million per bed.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Hon. Bowinn Ma : The project at Delta will continue, but we do have to do the work with Fraser Health

Authority and other health authorities across the province to get those costs per

bed down, and that work is underway.

The Speaker : Delta South, supplemental.

Ian Paton : It was a short two years ago when I stood on the lawn of Delta Hospital with the

former Minister of Health and the Minister of Jobs in this province as they gloated

about the fact that they were announcing the new extended care ward at my Delta Hospital.

The Minister of Infrastructure said: “To be clear, this project is not cancelled.”

Tell that to the seniors in my riding who will no longer have access to long-term

care. Tell that to my community who fundraised $20 million for this project. This

project is cancelled. This isn’t re-pacing. It’s betrayal.

Why did this government promise long-term care to nearly 125,000 people in Delta only

to walk it back and abandon the seniors who trusted them?

Hon. Bowinn Ma : We need to be able to deliver long-term-care beds throughout the province at the

scale and the volume that they are required. At $1.8 million per bed, we are unable

to do that.

[2:10 p.m.]

So in order to actually respond to the true needs of communities, in order to respond

to the real needs of communities, we need to do the work to be able to deliver these

projects sustainably. That is the work that is underway now.

Regional Transit Services

for Sea to Sky Corridor

Jeremy Valeriote : I stand up today to shine a light on the urgent need for regional public transit

between communities in the Sea to Sky Corridor and connected to the Lower Mainland.

I won’t go into all the reasons why this is a public policy and public service silver

bullet. The minister is well aware. I will say that affordability, equity, economic

development and safety are at the top of the list.

Now, I think I’ve been polite and patient for 16 months. I’ve received repeated assurances

from the Premier and the Minister of Transportation and Transit, but this is moving

at a snail’s pace. I’m not sure how much longer I can hold off the impatience of my

constituents, local governments and First Nations, who are all aligned on this need

and willing to help pay for it.

When the government makes a commitment in black and white in a 2025 cooperation agreement,

and two ministers of the Crown look you in the eye, multiple times, and say they know

the service is needed and are committed to implementing it, I may be naïve, but on

a human level, that has to mean something.

Will this minister commit in this House to finally pushing the service across the

line, instructing B.C. Transit to order buses and set a date for this service to begin?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I thank the member for the question. You’ll get no disagreement from me on the importance

of transit along the Sea to Sky Corridor. I know the member would like to see buses

being ordered, but in order to do that, one of the things that has to be put in place

is an understanding and agreement with the communities along there on how the system

is going to be governed, and that’s what we’ve been working on.

We’ve made it clear that right now in the province there are two models that have

been in place. We’ve been looking at Nanaimo and Victoria in terms of how transit

is governed and, just as importantly, as to how they’re funded.

That’s been a particular bit of a challenge, because there is a point of view on how

that should be that is quite different. I’ve recently met with the mayor of Whistler,

for example. What I have said is that we’re willing to look at: is there another alternative

that could be put in place that would meet the requirements that we must have in terms

of governance and how something is funded but also recognizes that there are some

unique issues when it comes to the Sea to Sky Highway and some unique opportunities?

We are continuing to do that work. But to suggest that what we need to do is be ordering

buses…. I understand the desire for that. The reality is we’re working to make sure

that what’s put in place is right for the communities and right for the province.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Jeremy Valeriote : I’ve been involved and followed this closely for 18 months now. What I have heard

is a laundry list of abstract obstacles, excuses and what I would consider delay tactics.

When this government wants to do something in a week, it can, but they seem to be

holding this in their back pocket. This is not a rocket launch. It is ten buses, a

motor fuel tax, establishing governance and $3 million a year in public money that

will pay for itself many times over. We know it’s not if but when. Meanwhile, real

lives are affected by this political strategy.

When will the minister finally make this happen and get over the governance hurdles

and get the buses running?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : Again, I thank the member for the question.

I will outline again, shorter this time, that we are working on just how to do that.

The member mentions things such as a gas tax, property tax — all kinds of things.

We are working with the communities on what is in place, trying to get an agreement

in terms of how something can move forward. We’re doing that work.

I’d like to remind the member it wasn’t us that walked away from the CARGA agreement.

FIFA World Cup

Security Provisions and Costs

Macklin McCall : In 43 days, British Columbia hosts one of the largest events in its history, the

FIFA World Cup.

Now, how is this government going to keep hundreds of thousands of attendees safe?

A family in Burnaby taking their kids to the Fan Festival doesn’t know the plan. A

small business owner in downtown Vancouver doesn’t know the plan. British Columbians

deserve to know this government’s plan for safety and security.

Will the minister stand up today and explain how the government plans to keep hundreds

of thousands of attendees safe?

[2:15 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : My thanks to the member opposite for the question.

British Columbia is very excited to welcome hundreds of thousands of visitors for

the FIFA World Cup and to realize the profound economic benefits to the region. As

Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General, ensuring the safety of all visitors,

athletes, all participants, fans and residents and communities is a top priority for

the province, for the host city and for all our partners.

The Vancouver police department is the police of jurisdiction, and they are working

closely with the integrated safety and security branch, the B.C. RCMP and the policing

and security branch of my ministry. The federal commissioner of the RCMP has also

indicated their full support and engagement in ensuring that our games here in B.C.

are safe and successful.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Macklin McCall : If the minister does prioritize public safety and there is a plan for FIFA, then

where is the transparency?

It is beyond concerning that this government still refuses to release any details

about the costs or security plan for an event that starts in just six weeks.

Will the minister release the safety plan and costs for FIFA today?

Hon. Nina Krieger : Thank you for the follow-up question. Ensuring a safe, secure and successful games

requires the partnership of multiple levels of government and multiple police agencies.

The province was pleased today with the announcement from the federal government that

they are contributing up to $100 million towards safety and security costs of the

games here in B.C.

We await further details about that contribution, and the Minister of Tourism, Arts,

Culture and Sport will be, in the coming weeks, providing an update about costs, revenues

and the economic opportunities of these games.

FIFA World Cup Hosting Costs

and Role of Federal Government

Lorne Doerkson : On April 1, the Premier said, and I quote: “It is our international reputation on

the line, which is why the federal government has committed to being our partner in

this work, but they haven’t cut the cheque, and we can’t pay the rent with promises.”

As the minister just confirmed, the federal government has cut the cheque. It’s $100

million for Vancouver to cover the security costs.

My question today is: how much money is the provincial government committing to this,

and where in the budget can we find it?

Hon. Nina Krieger : Thank you very much for the question. I’ll reiterate my answer that the province

is pleased by this contribution of $100 million towards the safety and security costs,

specifically of the games. My colleague the Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture and

Sport will be providing an update about the full costs, revenues and economic opportunities

of these games in the coming weeks.

Teresa Wat : Does this government even apply for major event status with the federal government

for FIFA? A simple yes or no.

Hon. Nina Krieger : Sorry, if I can just ask for a repeat of the question?

The Speaker : Member, please repeat the question.

Teresa Wat : Sure, Mr. Speaker.

Does this government even apply for major event status with the federal government

for FIFA? It’s just a simple yes or no.

Hon. Nina Krieger : Thank you very much for the question. We have been in continued discussions with

the federal government about designating this a major event and also about the various

ways that both levels of government can work together in partnership to ensure a safe

games.

Those discussions have been productive and led to the announcement today that the

federal government is contributing $100 million towards safety and security for our

games here in B.C. This is a…

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Hon. Nina Krieger : …significant investment, a significant partnership that speaks to our shared commitment

to host a successful and safe games for the province and for the country more broadly.

We’ll continue to do this work in coordination with all partners.

The Speaker : Member has a supplemental.

[2:20 p.m.]

Teresa Wat : It’s very obvious that we have learned from this government that you have failed

to communicate with the federal government to secure this major event status, a designation

that would have brought tens of millions of federal dollars to British Columbia and

taken the burden off B.C. taxpayers.

The biggest tournament in the world, four years to prepare, and the minister couldn’t

get it done.

Why did this minister drop the ball? Why are British Columbians now paying the bill

for her negligence?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I have to say, hearing the member and the question, I understand why, when she was

kicking the soccer ball the other day, she missed the goal. This opposition has missed

the goal when it comes to FIFA every single time.

Since the very beginning, we have been in contact with the federal government that

this is a key, critical event for not only British Columbia and Vancouver but also

Canada. The federal government has stepped up in terms of saying they’ll be contributing

$100 million in terms of the security costs.

At the same time, we’ve worked closely with the city of Vancouver to ensure that B.C.

Place is ready when those games start. We have already heard that Vancouver is far

and away the best-prepared city in the entire North America FIFA tournament.

Vancouver will be ready to greet the world. British Columbia will be ready to greet

the world. Canada will be ready to greet the world. This side of the House will be

greeting the world. That side of the House will be missing the goal.

Police Services and Staffing in

Communities During FIFA World Cup

Bryan Tepper : This government has not added a single provincial RCMP officer since 2012, 14 years.

We know officers policing FIFA are coming from all over B.C. Will the Solicitor General

tell this House today how many officers in total are being redeployed from B.C. detachments

to the Lower Mainland for FIFA and which communities are losing them?

Hon. Nina Krieger : I’m a bit confused by the starting point of the member’s question.

We are proud of the truly historic investment that the province has made in policing,

over $230 million to hire 256 RCMP officers.

On municipal policing, we have added significant training capacity to the Justice

Institute of B.C. and added two satellite campuses, a truly historic milestone, for

Vancouver and for here on Vancouver Island.

In a previous answer, I noted that for FIFA, this is hosted in Vancouver. The Vancouver

police department is the police of jurisdiction, but they are not alone in the task

of keeping games safe. Our ministry is deeply involved. The integrated safety and

security branch is coordinating all efforts, and the B.C. RCMP and federal RCMP all

have an active role in ensuring that these games are safe.

There will be decisions made at the provincial and national levels about the deployment

of officers in advance of and during the games, and I’m very proud to work with police

leaders and agencies across the country and across the province to do that.

The Speaker : The member has a supplemental.

Bryan Tepper : I’m not even mad at that answer, just extremely disappointed.

They’ve spent more money and filled vacancies that were there, not adding one new

position, and they’re bragging about that. At the same time, the detachments that

we’ve had are facing pressures of their own, with summer tourist surges and wildfire

seasons. Fewer officers, more pressures and no new resources since 2012.

I ask the minister directly. Does she have a plan to keep communities safe across

B.C. when their officers are policing a soccer tournament in Vancouver?

[2:25 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : Not only have we made the largest historic investment in RCMP officers, but we’ve

also contributed significantly to integrated units that are doing important work in

communities across our province — work in major crimes, work in the emergency response

team, work in bodies such as the B.C. extortion task force and the broader task force

to combat gun and gang violence.

Policing involves partnership. That is what we are committed to doing, to working

in partnership to ensure the safety and security of our communities and to ensure

that resources are deployed appropriately to ensure the safety of visitors, of communities

and also of the general population in British Columbia. We are committed to doing

that work.

Scott McInnis : The city of Revelstoke is hosting a public watch party for FIFA. Thousands of people

will be descending on this small mountain town that has one RCMP detachment. Revelstoke

resources are already stretched very thin.

My constituents deserve to know: what is this government’s plan to keep Revelstoke

safe while their officers are in Vancouver during FIFA?

Hon. Nina Krieger : We kept the city and the province safe during the 2010 games, and we are committed

to that same thing with FIFA 2026.

An event of this scale….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members.

Interjection.

The Speaker : Member.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Minister, take your seat, please.

You want to continue? Carry on.

Solicitor General.

Hon. Nina Krieger : As I’ve noted before, an event of this scale requires close collaboration and partnership

between every level of government and every level of policing. Resourcing decisions

will be made, overseen, by the policing and security branch of my ministry and the

integrated safety and security unit to ensure the safety of the games and of communities

across the province.

My ministry is involved in ongoing active superintendence of policing levels in every

community of this province. It’s that superintendence that has informed our historic

investment in policing and the continued work that we do with partners at all levels

to ensure safe communities.

Kristina Loewen : Kelowna is hosting free public watch parties at Waterfront Park on June 24 and July

2 — thousands of fans, outdoor crowds, in the heart of tourism season.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members, shhh.

Kristina Loewen : When Kelowna officers are deployed to Vancouver and resources are already underfunded,

Kelowna families and businesses are still here. Crime is ongoing. We may have wildfires.

Is government going to pull police officers from my community to police Vancouver

during the World Cup?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : I appreciate the interest from colleagues around the World Cup, and I appreciate

that everyone wants to make sure their communities are safe when we welcome the entire

world.

I also appreciate the members standing up, one by one, talking about the viewing parties

that they’ll be having in their communities — that we, by the way, are funding, on

this side of the House.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members.

Just hold it.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members. Members.

Interjection.

The Speaker : Member for Abbotsford West.

Interjection.

The Speaker : Member, no argument. Control yourself, please.

The minister has the floor.

[2:30 p.m.]

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : I hope the members are well over there, Mr. Speaker.

I’m glad the members are highlighting the funding that’s been provided by the province,

by the way, which that member, all these members, voted against. They have no problem

now showing up at those events, kicking soccer balls, celebrating the games. But in

here, they come and are critical of these investments.

We are going to be inviting the world to British Columbia. We are going to see tourists

coming from all over the province. We are going to be trying to move people not only

to Vancouver but to Kelowna, to Revelstoke, to enjoy the beauty of this British Columbia.

It’s good for the economy….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Member, if you want to make noise from the opposition side, continue. We will stop

the minister from answering. It’s your time. Welcome what you want to do. Let me know.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : We are going to welcome the world. I welcome the members on the other side to pull

out your red mittens and celebrate this opportunity for British Columbia. We’re excited

about the opportunity. We’re going to see huge economic returns from it.

If the members want to encourage more activation in their communities and encourage

more communities to participate, we welcome that.

FIFA World Cup

Security Costs and Tickets

Trevor Halford : The premier-to-be said to pull out the red mittens, and let’s just say this. I remember

in 2010, and I remember what a great time that Olympics was. I remember in 2010.

I also remember that in 2010, it was the now Premier of the province that was following

around protesters and criminals, passing out his business card to make sure they got

free legal advice. That was what the Premier was doing in 2010.

We are 45 days out from inviting the world. The government is right on that. But what

they haven’t been clear on is how they’re going to execute that. What they haven’t

been clear on is how much it’s going to cost to keep British Columbians safe at a

time when this government can’t even do that on its best day.

What they haven’t disclosed is who on that side is getting a ticket. They won’t talk

about that. They say plans are coming in the coming weeks. The games will be here

in the coming weeks.

My question to the minister….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Trevor Halford : I know the Minister of Transportation is getting ready to go, so I’ll be quick here.

My question to anybody on that side of the House is: where is the plan, who is getting

the tickets, and what is the cost going to be to keep people safe in this province?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member opposite. I’ll start, too, with a little

bit of history for that member. I remember sitting around the cabinet table — not

this cabinet table but another cabinet….

Interjection.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : Yeah, I am, and you need to remember it.

That was this side of the House. It was the government that I was a part of that voted

to have the 2010 Olympics here in British Columbia. It was a former Premier of this

province from our party…

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : …who led the delegation that won the Olympics in 2010 here in British Columbia. And

it’s this side of the House that got the FIFA World Cup here in Vancouver.

There’s one thing I know. When we put on an international event in this province and

in this country…

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : …all provinces work together. So when it comes to safety…. I see that’s what they

seem to be concerned about, that at the community events….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : Safety is a top priority. That’s why we work with the federal government. That’s

why we work with RCMP, VPD, police agencies right across the country to ensure that

we’ve got the resources here to keep our communities safe.

But what’s really disappointing is that we have an opposition that doesn’t want to

join with British Columbians, that doesn’t want to join with marginalized kids that

won’t ever get to see a soccer game but will get to see a soccer game because of the

policies on this side of the House. They’ll be the ones getting the tickets.

I know they seem very concerned whether they’re going to get tickets or not. What

we will be delivering is a world-class event in a world-class city in a world-class

province from a world-class government, and we’ve got a terrible opposition.

[2:35 p.m.]

[End of question period.]

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Rob Botterell : I seek leave to move motion M211, standing in my name on the order paper.

Leave not granted.

The Speaker : Sorry, Member. The House is not ready for that.

Orders of the Day

Hon. Mike Farnworth : In this chamber, I call Committee of Supply for the Ministry of Health.

In the Douglas Fir Room, I call committee stage on Bill 16, Miscellaneous Statutes

Amendment Act.

The House in Committee,

Section B.

The committee met at 2:37 p.m.

[Lorne Doerkson in the chair.]

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Health

(continued)

The Chair : Members, we are going to have a very brief recess while we wait for our teams to

get in place for the estimates of the Ministry of Health.

The committee recessed from 2:37 p.m. to 2:41 p.m.

[Lorne Doerkson in the chair.]

The Chair : Members, we’ll call the chamber back to order, where we’re going to contemplate the

Ministry of Health estimates.

On Vote 32: ministry operations, $35,968,875,000 (continued) .

Brennan Day : Yesterday in estimates, we asked for some pretty specific numbers, and what we got,

after some very long explanations and repeated attempts, were a few admissions that

should concern every British Columbian.

The minister confirmed that more than 15,000 funded health care positions are currently

vacant, including 7,200 nursing positions. The minister confirmed 8,645 hours of ER

closures in 2024, despite an FOI from her ministry confirming 10,360. Then the minister

confirmed those numbers did not include planned overnight or weekend closures. That’s

not stabilization in the province of B.C.

On primary care, after several attempts, the minister finally confirmed that there

are more than 1.3 million British Columbians that remain unattached to a primary care

provider, up from 821,000 in 2016. The minister claims the methodology for measuring

has changed and the new system is far superior but will not offer up any clarity as

to the presumed baseline that this government started at.

The government’s latest headline claim of 600,000 new attachments since 2023 is getting

a lot of press. But the minister confirmed that numbers include…. People who moved

communities or changed providers are included in that total. It’s a gross number presented

as progress without any clear accounting. Based on the minister’s own numbers, that

claim is overrepresented by at least 33 percent with the year-to-year data that the

minister provided yesterday.

We asked for a net number. Neither was provided. We asked how many of the 581 U.S.

recruits with accepted job offers are actually practising in British Columbia today.

The number was not provided. We asked how long it takes to go from application to

practice. That number was not provided. It wasn’t tracked or it wasn’t convenient.

We asked for maximum wait times for people on the health connect registry. That was

not disclosed.

That is the pattern we see here before us: announcements instead of outcomes, gross

numbers instead of net results, inputs rather than outputs.

Now I’m going to move into seniors health, where the consequences are even more severe.

The seniors advocate has reported thousands of seniors waiting for long-term care

in B.C. — 7,000 in his most recent report.

We know seniors are stuck in hospital beds because the right level of care is not

available. We know British Columbia is already short thousands of long-term-care beds

and that the predicted shortfall grows dramatically in the years ahead, compounded

by the fact that six long-term-care facilities across British Columbia were cancelled

or re-paced in the most recent budget.

So today we will be asking a simple question on behalf of seniors and families, and

we will be making sure we get accurate numbers.

I will begin by asking the minister…. Noting that last year 6,464 seniors were waiting

for a long-term-care bed in estimates at this time and the seniors advocate’s most

recent report has now estimated 7,000 people waiting on the long-term-care list, an

increase of 2,000 percent since this government took power, could the minister please

confirm how many seniors are currently waiting for a long-term-care bed in the province

of British Columbia today? What are the median and maximum wait times, broken down

by health authority?

[2:45 p.m. - 2:55 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : Welcome back to the member for Courtenay-Comox.

The member started off with a little bit of a recap of the discussions we had yesterday.

I’ll offer my recap as well, which is to say I think it was a good discussion about

a variety of different statistics and data and, frankly, the progress government has

made in attracting new physicians and health care workers to the province; in attaching

people to primary care providers; in the seats we’ve added to the system to train

more nurses, nurse practitioners, allied health care workers; opening a new medical

school; talking about vacancies in the health care system and all the work that’s

being done to address those vacancies at a time of just simply phenomenal population

growth.

Much of what we talked about yesterday was how, in the progress that government is

making, we are outpacing population growth when it comes to much of this work, particularly

around patient attachment to primary care providers and in adding physicians and health

care workers to our workforce here in British Columbia.

I know the member looks for precision in certain things that I think he understands

just simply isn’t possible. When health care workers move to our province and accept

a job offer, it is a very individual experience — and to know how long it takes people

when you’re relocating a family and going through immigration processes as well as

through the job security process and moving your family.

The point is, and as we heard from the member for Ladysmith-Oceanside earlier today,

that people are making the choice to move to this province because of what we offer

here in our public universal health care system.

I also just want to briefly address the discrepancy that the member is pointing out

with how his records, obtained through FOI, on emergency department unplanned closures

don’t reconcile with the numbers that I read into the record yesterday.

I’d be happy to talk to the member more afterwards, but what we have learned by looking

at the same FOI result — I believe it’s the same one that he has in his hands — is

that his includes certain types of facilities that are not truly classified as emergency

departments.

I want to be very clear that the numbers yesterday I spoke about were emergency departments

and, further, just make the point that we are again making progress in bringing down

the number of hours that emergency departments are closed in the province.

Let me turn now to the question at hand here. I’m really pleased to be able to take

some time today and talk about seniors care and just how important that is.

As we know, seniors comprise a large proportion of British Columbia’s population.

It’s no wonder. It’s a beautiful place to live. People make the choice to retire here

and to move here. In 2025, seniors represented 20.5 of B.C.’s population, and that

proportion is projected to rise to 23.4 in ten years, in 2035.

That’s why it is so important to ensure that this growing and aging population has

the supports that they need and that we’re able to invest in the full continuum of

care, of what seniors need to access in terms of health care — whether it’s primary

care and then stepping up into more intense forms of care and sometimes, for some,

in the form of assisted living or in long-term care.

I know that the member and I are going to have a discussion over the next few hours

about this and talking about how that care is being provided.

I just want to take a moment to set the stage and remind everybody that when this

government came into power in 2017, we walked into a situation where there was an

incredible amount of work to do in order to catch up with the lack of investment in

seniors care previously and in order to invest particularly, if we’re going to talk

about long-term care, in the facilities that are required to accommodate this growing

proportion of seniors — and, as well, to be able to meet the standards of care that

all seniors deserve to have, and the dignity and respect with which they need to be

able to live as well as to be cared for.

[3:00 p.m.]

In the Gordon Campbell years…. I don’t need to re-canvass too much what happened there.

But there were terrible things that happened with respect to contracting out of care

for seniors. When we arrived at the point of the COVID-19 pandemic, we really saw

the impact of some of those changes in those years and the cutbacks and the privatization

of care in a way, again, that just renews our commitment to having to invest in this

system.

One of the early actions that was undertaken by the former Minister of Health was

to look forward and say: “How do we develop a plan?” How do we make sure that as people

age, they can age in a way that is as healthy as possible, that they can stay home

as long as possible and that we increase not just lifespan but health span, the ability

of a person to thrive and to be able to live their best lives as they grow older?

The age-forward plan, British Columbia’s 50-plus health strategy and three-year action

plan, brought this together in a way that really outlines the commitment to improving

quality of life for older adults. Of course, as I was just saying, it’s so important

that as the population ages, we support people to thrive and to continue contributing

to their communities.

That means that health care services need to adapt. They need to meet evolving needs.

They need to really emphasize that proactive, personalized and culturally safe care,

as well as investing in upstream approaches. Those are early interventions that are

needed to help detect health issues, to help prevent health issues — again, about

expanding the health span and undertaking initiatives to reduce frailties and preventable

falls, some of the situations that older adults find themselves in when they must,

in some cases, move into assisted living or into long-term care.

Part of this work, too, in promoting an increase in health span, is around supporting

seniors to be able to live in their homes independently for as long as possible. That’s

why the work that we have done and the investments that we have made in the Better

at Home program, for example, the partnership with United Way…. Our investments into

community care, I have to point out, have more than doubled now, compared to what

they were when we entered government.

That community care and home-based care is an incredibly important part of supporting

people, those community-based senior services that deliver non-medical home support

services. They deliver light housekeeping, some visiting information and referral

supports, transportation to appointments, but then also the work that health authorities

do in being able to provide more supports for clients, for residents who are living

at home, with clinical services like nursing, allied health, home support and respite.

These are all an important component of community care. Over the course from when

we formed government to just one year ago, those service levels have increased by

over a quarter, by over 28 percent. We continue to uphold that in our budget and to

deliver these services for people.

There are also adult day services, short-term respite stays for seniors in long-term-care

homes to give their caregivers a little bit of extra support, meeting not only the

clients’ needs that they have but also giving caregivers a break and being able to

help them as they continue to care for their loved ones in their families. That, too,

helps to extend again the ability of an older adult to be able to stay at home.

Let me turn now to long-term care and note, too, that in the continuum of care and

services that are provided for adults, we, understandably, focus a lot of our time

on long-term care. It does serve a small portion of older adults, and it’s incredibly

important that those services are there.

Again, just coming back to the fact that upon entering government in 2017, there’s

been an incredible amount of work to do to invest in British Columbia’s long-term-care

system. Investing in the renewal and the expansion of health authority long-term-care

facilities has been a priority in improving the existing aging infrastructure at the

same time as building new long-term-care homes.

I know this was canvassed partly in the estimates with the Minister of Infrastructure,

but it bears repeating that since 2017 there have been 37 projects that have been

approved.

[3:05 p.m.]

Using both the operating and capital funding, that incorporates over 2,000 replacement

beds, at net new — I know that the member likes to hear “net new” — 3,397 beds that

have been approved. That’s a combination of private long-term-care beds. If you add

the 177 net new private long-term-care beds, that brings us to a total of 5,572 long-term-care

beds.

As our population increases, there is absolutely no doubt — it’s very clear — that

there will be an increase in the number of seniors who will want to plan for or who

will find themselves in the need of having to enter into long-term care. I think this

is where the member’s interests lie with respect to wait-lists.

He mentions the work of the office of the seniors advocate, and I want to say that

I really appreciate the work that Dan Levitt is doing, and prior to him, Isobel Mackenzie.

The service they provide in raising the voices that need to be heard by government

and working with us to identify gaps and places to improve the system, as well as

where the system is working well, is part of a really valuable relationship.

I also want to express gratitude for the Parliamentary Secretary for Seniors’ Services

and Long-Term Care, the MLA for North Vancouver–Seymour, who has a particular focus

on this work and is also of great help for me in delivering around this part of government’s

commitment.

I’m going to move to the specific data that the member has been asking for around

long-term-care clients wait-listed. I’ll read these numbers out. The member has asked

for median and maximum. I can give average and maximum, and I will break it out by

health authority.

In the Interior Health Authority, the average days waiting is 150, and the maximum

wait is 1,211 days. In Fraser Health Authority, the average is 270, with a maximum

of 1,284. In Vancouver Coastal Health Authority, the average is 315 and maximum 2,825.

In Vancouver Island Health Authority, the average is 345 days, with a maximum of 1,861.

In Northern Health Authority, it is 376 days on average and a maximum of 1,609.

I also want to reflect, though, that as health authorities manage these wait-lists,

it’s not strictly first come, first served but that there is the level of acuity,

that a person’s experiences will impact the amount of time that they may wait for.

I also want to say…. I know the member will make the point that there’s more work

to do, and that’s absolutely right. There’s more work to do.

That includes continuing to invest in the community services; in in-home services;

in partnerships with organizations like United Way, all of the not-for-profits, community

service providers that do absolutely incredible work in serving seniors and in continuing

to build out the long-term-care system here in British Columbia — one that is as high

a quality as can be expected and should be expected, with workers who are paid fairly,

who are treated fairly and who have the kind of workplace conditions that they need

to be able to support the seniors that they truly love working with and working for

and caring for.

Brennan Day : It took 25 minutes to not answer the question of how many seniors in British Columbia

are currently on a wait-list for a long-term-care home.

Interjections.

[3:10 p.m.]

The Chair : Members, we’ll just keep a little order in the chamber right now.

Hon. Josie Osborne : I may have misheard the question. My apologies for that.

So 7,829 clients were wait-listed — sorry, just let me check the date here — as of

Q2, ’25-26.

Brennan Day : Thank you, Minister.

I heard another trip down memory lane, in terms of the state of the system that you

inherited. But I’ll just read a few things onto the record so that we can provide

a baseline, because this government has been in power now for nearly a decade.

There has been a 200 percent increase in the wait-list in the last six years, and

the average wait times over the same period have increased from 144 days to 287. Based

on the figures that you just gave me, we should be adding probably another 30 percent

onto the wait-list. The average days, and I’ll do the math quickly here, have also

increased. Wait times of 2,825 days — that person likely will not see a long-term-care

bed. Obviously, they are required in serious cases.

I’ll just go from the seniors advocate’s report here to set the baseline. From middle

of last year, there were 7,029 clients waiting for a publicly subsidized long-term-care

bed, a 9 percent increase from last year and nearly 200 percent more than six years

ago. The average wait time has grown from 144 to 287. Straight from the seniors advocate’s

report.

Now the minister is telling us that the wait-list has grown another 800 people over

the last 12 months. I certainly would not call that progress.

The minister went on for nearly 15 minutes about inputs and announcements on programs

in response to a simple question. This government constantly relies on inputs and

announcements and is not good at measuring the output. The output and the performance

of this government is that the wait-list has grown by an additional 800 people over

the last 12 months under this minister’s watch.

Last year it was confirmed that seniors accounted for 83 percent of alternative-level-of-care

hospital days. What percentage of hospital beds today are being taken up by alternative-level-of-care

patients, and how many beds total in the system, currently tracked by the ministry?

[3:15 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : All right, alternate level of care. I’m just going to take a little bit of time to

describe the definition of alternate level of care so that as I relay the numbers,

I can put them into that context too.

The standard provincial alternate-level-of-care, or ALC, definition states that ALC

is the designation that is used to identify a patient who meets all three of these

following conditions.

One, they’re occupying a bed in a hospital that’s designated under the Hospital Act.

Two, they have completed the acute care phase of their treatment.

And three, they are waiting to be transferred to a more appropriate care setting.

That’s an important point because some — many, in fact — are discharged to community

settings and not all are waiting for a long-term-care placement.

For example, in the 2025 calendar year, 15.4 percent of all inpatient census days

were designated as ALC. Again, these are people who no longer have acute medical needs

but they’re unable to be safely transitioned to another service, be it long-term care

or home or some other setting.

That reflects an average daily total in British Columbia of 1,659 ALC patients who

are pending discharge from hospital, but only 611 of those were awaiting long-term

care, and the rest — another community service, or they hadn’t completed the review

process yet for accessing long-term care. So I think that’s an important definition

to provide.

The member asked around some specific data, and I’m sure he’ll repeat his question

if I don’t get this quite right as to what he was looking for.

I also just want to say that we don’t measure ALC in terms of beds. We measure in

terms of patients, just knowing that a bed does not necessarily mean it will be occupied

by a person who is classified or designated as ALC. Just as yesterday, in speaking

with the member for Skeena, it’s a mental-health-designated bed, not the patient,

that…. The clinical judgment on the patient’s status is done differently. So we measure

patients.

[3:20 p.m.]

In 2025, as I said, there were 611 long-term-care patients out of a total of 1,659

patients. So what I can do now is cite some figures into the record around ALC days

as a percentage of inpatient days by health authority, as the member asked, again

remembering that these are not all people waiting for long-term care. These are all

ALC patients in total.

So for the 2024-2025 fiscal: Interior Health Authority, 18.6 percent; Fraser Health

Authority, 14.5 percent; Vancouver Coastal Health Authority, 10.9 percent; Vancouver

Island Health Authority, 18.5 percent; Northern Health Authority, 27.8 percent; for

a British Columbia overall percentage of 15.6 days.

I just also want to note that there are a number of policies that support the management

and the reduction of ALC rates. I recognize just how important it is to drive down

the rates of ALC because, of course, having a hospital bed occupied by a person who

is waiting to be discharged into another setting or back home is an expensive proposition.

It’s not the kindest or best proposition for those patients. Clearly, they will be

better supported in other settings where they can be back with family or be in a setting

where they have the appropriate levels of care. That always is the intention.

We, in this chamber, talk quite a bit about hospital crowding and impacts there, and

ALC is part of that. So being able to discharge people into the appropriate setting

is incredibly important.

That’s why there is a specific policy, the management of alternate-level-of-care rates,

improving access to acute care services by improving patient care experiences and

outcomes policy. It formalizes some of the aspects of acute care screening, assessment

and discharge planning — for example, to reduce the risk of frail patients who are

experiencing inappropriate extended lengths of stay in the hospital.

This policy also establishes a provincial framework for delivering community-based

transitional care services so that medically stable ALC patients can receive those

services in the appropriate community care settings. This is part of the work to improve

access to acute care hospitals for other patients, as I was just talking about — to

the flow and being able to have people move through.

As well, there’s another policy I think the member might be interested to know about,

the emergency department admissions avoidance teams policy. This establishes minimum

requirements for the composition and scheduling of teams that connect patients who

come into the emergency department and don’t require inpatient care. They connect

those people to the appropriate community-based health care setting, again to avoid

the need for admission which can result in a person staying in hospital for ALC.

Just as a final note, I wanted to let the member know that I had a really important

and heartfelt experience in Comox Valley hospital, in his riding, where I met two

inpatients who were in ALC. They were a married couple who were waiting for placement

to long-term care. I was able to have a really good and long conversation with one

of their children, adult children, who was able to explain to me more about the experience

that their parents had gone through.

It is always so incredibly helpful to have that personalized, to have it contextualized.

I’m sure the member has spoken with other family members, too, of people who are,

effectively, living in a hospital and in ALC status and the important work that we

need to do to continue to shorten those stays and to get more people out into the

appropriate settings.

So thank you for the question.

Brennan Day : I know there’s a lot of pressure on hospitals to discharge people that are tying

up those ALC beds. We’ve had hundreds of case files just in my riding on the pressures

that the hospitals are putting on to discharge elderly patients that would do better

in either assisted living or a long-term-care facility that just can’t be managed

by the families.

[3:25 p.m.]

It is approaching a crisis level in the province of British Columbia. Certainly, if

I’m hearing it, I know all of the other MLAs in this room are hearing it as well.

My next question is…. Long-term-care providers across British Columbia have warned

that recent funding changes and labour restructuring could put approximately 690 long-term-care

beds and 140 assisted-living beds at risk of closure. How many long-term-care beds

does the ministry currently project could close as a result of these policy changes?

[3:30 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : The member has raised the questions around some of the changes that have been made

in the long-term-care sector in the last months, year or so. I will just set the context

for those changes. I’m going to answer his question directly.

First, referring to the temporary wage levelling program that was in place, as well

as the funding for overtime and agency staffing, both were programs that came into

place in whole because of the impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic. As we saw, obviously,

the disruption that the pandemic wreaked amongst the health care system, saw the impacts

on the long-term-care sector, we understood that these had serious impacts on the

operators.

I do want to take a moment here just to express, I think, the gratitude that everybody

has for the work that operators of long-term-care facilities do — be they publicly

funded, health authority–owned facilities or private facilities, non-profit, charitable

affiliate, the affiliate sector. I’ve had the opportunity to meet with a lot of different

operators and a lot of different workers, people who work in these facilities, and

it’s absolutely incredible what they do.

Coming back to these programs, as temporary stabilization programs during the pandemic,

it’s understood that programs like that, policies like that, will change. We have

worked with the sector as those changes have rolled out; followed the terms of agreements,

where they exist, with those operators, too, on providing notice; and are continuing

to support them by having operators work very, very closely with health authorities

where they have publicly funded beds.

I do want to address, as well, the really important changes that have then come into

place around bringing more long-term-care and assisted-living facilities and operators

into the Health Employers Association of British Columbia. Of course, the announcements

that we made that all facilities that meet specific eligibility criteria will become

HEABC members by September 30, 2028….

[3:35 p.m.]

This is really about the stabilization of a workforce, the fair treatment and payment

of these workers and being able to re-establish a workforce in a collective agreement

in a way that provides those workers with the better conditions and ability to be

able to keep their jobs, to stay in those jobs and to provide this care for seniors

that they are so dedicated to and that is so required.

The government has committed to fund the cost of the transition — and fully fund.

Again, this is about the stabilization that is much needed in the sector, particularly

after coming out of the COVID-19 pandemic and also the changes that were made by a

previous government in the contracting out of workers.

It’s important to make that point, because the commitment of government to meeting

the standards of care; to providing excellent working conditions; to training more

care aides, LPNs, RNs, the people who work in the long-term care system is part of

that.

As I said, we’ve also committed, through the health authorities, to work very closely,

and have been working very closely, with operators as they adjust and make these changes.

When it comes to fully funding the costs of HEABC collective agreements and the benefits

that flow to workers, the full cost of this expansion initiative is estimated to be

up to $250 million annually.

Again, I want to say that is a permanent change. That is a permanent commitment of

government. It’s not a temporary stabilization program, like the wage levelling and

like the overtime and agency funding was. This is a permanent change.

Now, in working with health authorities and working directly with the operators, as

of January 21, 2026, the long-term-care status report, which includes all of the health

authority updates as of January 15, 2026, and all of the ALC information that we have

as of January 21, 2026, two beds were closed due to staffing shortages at one long-term-care

home. Overall, there were other bed closures, 75, that were primarily due to repairs

and maintenance. It was not due to the funding situation.

Again, I think it’s important to note that the health authorities will continue to

work with operators, as they come forward, to understand and help do everything we

can to mitigate the impacts of the OT agency funding cessation and helping those operators

develop mitigation plans, where it has been appropriate, and assisting them on not

only the mitigation plans but also recruitment efforts and working with them to understand

the issues.

None of these beds have been closed permanently. As I said, two closed to staffing

shortages, the others closed to repairs and maintenance, but these are all temporary

closures. These are not permanent closures of beds.

I hope that helps to answer the member’s question.

Brennan Day : Could I get some clarification? So $250 million annually for the HEABC transition

— that will be fully funded by government on an ongoing, continuous basis. If you

could just clarify that for the record.

Then the next question is: in the last year…? How many licensed long-term-care beds

exist in British Columbia today, and how many of those beds are actually operational

and available to patients?

[3:40 p.m.]

I’m concerned that there are bed closures. There are facilities that have closed due

to age. I’m wondering if we’re actually getting ahead this year in the bed count or

falling further behind.

Hon. Josie Osborne : First, yes, I want to confirm and clarify the government commitment to funding the

cost of the transition. As the member knows, the transition will take place over the

next few years because our commitment is that this transition happens by September

30, 2028.

There’ll be two phases. The first phase will start this fall and take a year. The

target is including 50 percent of operators. Then the second phase will take place

the following year, October 2027 to September 2028, for the remainder of those facilities

that have not been transitioned in but who do meet HEABC membership criteria.

The estimated net new incremental cost of this is up to $72 million, but that won’t

be achieved until the full transition takes place. That number may change slightly,

but that’s the estimate right now — that it is $72 million to fund the collective

agreement benefits for the additional workers that are coming in under the agreement.

That means, and I’ll now contextualize the number I gave before, that the full cost

of HEABC membership and the expansion initiative is estimated at up to $250 million

annually. That includes wages and largely replacing the current expenditure on wage

levelling. That’s the full cost. The bottom line here is that government will fund

the full cost of the transition into the HEABC employment.

The member asked about numbers of beds. I take the point. I think we all want to make

sure that long-term-care operators are able to provide the beds they have to the maximum

extent that they can. Now, we know that there are always reasons why beds may be closed

temporarily, as I was talking about before, for repairs or maintenance or renovation.

Sometimes as clients change, there’s a gap period, as well as if there’s an infection

outbreak and there are needs to close certain beds to manage that. There isn’t a precise

number that I can give the member because these things are shifting on a day-by-day

basis.

However, there are 310 public long-term-care sites with 29,207 beds as of December

2025. Private for-profit and private not-for-profit contracted sites with publicly

funded beds represent 195 long-term-care sites with 19,998 beds.

I think that gets it, but I’m sure the member will let us know if there’s more information

required on this.

Brennan Day : Of the 29,207 public beds in the province of British Columbia, how many of those

beds are currently operational?

A ballpark is fine, but realistically, that’s a gross number. If half of the beds

are empty or unstaffed, the number is inaccurate. If you could, please qualify any

major shutdowns. But an aggregate number would be appreciated.

[3:45 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you for the question.

The short-term closure of long-term-care beds has happened due to staffing shortages,

and it has been an issue in the system. We have been closely monitoring this since

October 2022 to support access and flow into long-term care and to support acute care

in order to reduce the number of ALC residents or patients, as we were talking about

in a previous question.

Now, as of August 2022, there were approximately 420 long-term-care beds that were

closed due to staffing shortages. But the work that we have done in training more

staff, in adding staff, has resulted in real progress, and by spring 2025, the closed

beds were effectively zero.

That reflects, again, some of the medication strategies that health authorities have

employed, monitoring of those closed beds and a really concerted effort to ensure

that every bed is staffed, that facilities are fully staffed, in a way that beds do

not have to be closed due to staffing shortages.

Now, once again, I want to point out that I can’t give a precise estimate of how many

beds might be closed today because of changing out of residence or because of temporary

renovations or upgrading, repairs or maintenance. But I want the member to be assured

that our publicly funded system, with just about 30,000 beds, has an extremely low

vacancy rate.

Brennan Day : Zero is a very interesting number. I know for a fact of at least four facilities,

just that I am aware of, that have beds closed. I’ll certainly be getting back to

the minister for some more details on that question.

What is the current occupancy rate of long-term-care beds across B.C., and at what

occupancy level does the ministry consider the system to be effectively full?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Just to note again that when I reported that by spring 2025 the closed beds were

effectively zero, that was spring 2025, not today.

Let me talk a little bit about the way we receive reporting through the health authorities

about bed closures in publicly funded facilities. Monitoring this, of course, is really

important. The member makes the point, and it’s well taken. Particularly because of

the changes in overtime and agency funding and stopping that temporary stabilization

program that came out of the COVID-19 pandemic, being able to understand very carefully

what the impacts of changes like that might be is important.

[3:50 p.m.]

Data is submitted by health authorities four days following data collection on the

first and the 15th of each month. Data collected as of April 15, 2026 indicates there

are three bed closures due to staffing shortages. Those are located in Fraser Health.

The total number of long-term-care bed closures for all reasons is 62, and that’s

a decrease by one from the previous reporting period. Approximately 80 percent of

those beds are closed due to repairs and renovations.

I can give a little bit more information. Again, looking at the number of publicly

funded beds, I indicated that it was Fraser Health, as of April 15, that had reported

three beds closed due to staffing shortages.

In all health authorities, there were no beds that were closed due to primary care

provider attachment. There were three beds that were closed due to an outbreak in

Interior Health.

And then all other reasons. There were 21 closed in Interior Health, 19 in Fraser

Health, one in Vancouver Coastal, 15 in Vancouver Island and none in Northern Health.

Again, that is mostly due to repairs and maintenance and renovations.

Brennan Day : Thank you, Minister.

What is the current occupancy rate of long-term-care beds across British Columbia,

and at what level does the ministry consider the system to be effectively full?

Hon. Josie Osborne : The current occupancy rate is 99.998 percent.

In terms of expectations, it’s our expectation that all beds are used to the full

extent, the full capacity that they can be, always. Now, accounting for the fact that

there is a need for repairs and maintenance and renovation and that there are the

occasional outbreaks, for example, we recognize that 100 percent isn’t an achievable

goal. But with the current 99.998 percent, I think we’re doing very well.

Brennan Day : Okay. So the system is considered full, then, at 100 percent. I understand that in

a hotel system, anything over 90 percent would be considered full because you have

turnover and things of that nature. I don’t understand how it could actually be 99.98

percent full unless you’re literally turning the bed over that day, which is pretty

grim to think about.

[3:55 p.m.]

Could you just confirm that 99.98 percent capacity is the number and what the ministry

considers the system full at, what percentage?

Hon. Josie Osborne : We consider the system full at 98.5 percent.

To the member’s point, just like in a hotel, there’s the changeover that’s required,

but, literally, there is same-day turnover in some cases. It is actually achievable.

With just about 30,000 beds in the system, even when, as I just pointed out, there

are 62 beds as of the last reporting period, 62 beds out of that almost 30,000, that

are closed for all reasons — be it three for staffing shortages and then several for

outbreak and renovations, repairs and maintenance — again, I think that’s a good sign

that the system is doing everything that it can to make sure that those beds are available.

Brennan Day : Thank you, Minister.

Last year there were 6,464 seniors waiting for long-term care. How many net new long-term-care

beds were added to the system capacity in the last year, including replacement beds?

Hon. Josie Osborne : I will take that on notice. I don’t have the number in front of me. This is actually

Ministry of Infrastructure estimates, getting their…. We’re trying to get the information

from them.

Brennan Day : Thank you, Minister.

Long-term-care operators report that some licensed beds remain closed not because

infrastructure is unavailable but because physician coverage cannot be secured for

the facilities.

How many licensed long-term-care beds in B.C. today are closed specifically because

physician coverage cannot be secured?

[4:00 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

I definitely want to acknowledge that the shortage of family physicians and primary

care providers has had an impact on long-term care and the seniors health sector,

as well, and that long-term-care homes can be challenged with shortages of physicians

to provide that care to seniors.

[4:05 p.m.]

Ensuring that seniors who enter into long-term-care facilities are attached is important

and is actually one of the reasons why there can be a delay for entry for a senior

that is awaiting admission to long-term care.

I also want to just reference back the answer that I provided previously, the most

recent reporting period for publicly funded beds. There are currently zero beds that

are vacant because of lack of attachment to a primary care provider.

I know the member asked specifically about licensed beds, and I am just talking about

publicly funded beds. That is the data that I have at my fingertips here. But I want

to address the issue more generally too, because, as I said, attachment or the ability

to access primary care is incredibly important in long-term care, obviously.

The work that is being done between the ministry and Doctors of B.C. through the Family

Practice Services Committee is worth mentioning. It’s well understood by this committee

that this is an area that’s really important to tackle so that we can ensure there

is sufficient coverage and that there are primary care providers, family physicians

who are able to provide that.

We’re also exploring other models and ways of incorporating nurse practitioners into

teams to make sure that primary care access is available. The work that we’re doing

to establish minimum nurse-to-patient ratios, which will eventually apply to long-term-care

settings…. Those ratios are in development right now.

Brennan Day : Thank you, Minister. I’ll just skip ahead here, I guess, since you did mention care

hours.

Last year care averaged 3.61 hours per resident per day, which is below the national

recommended minimum of 4.1 hours per day per resident.

What is the current average care hour per resident per day in British Columbia?

[4:10 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : When we formed government in 2017, the standard of care at that time was 3.11 hours

per resident day. A residential care staffing report that was completed in 2017 concluded

that a minimum of 3.36 hours per resident day, or HPRD, on average, was required for

that safe, quality care. It comprises three hours of direct nursing care, including

health care assistance, and then 0.36 hours of direct allied health care like physiotherapy,

occupational therapy, social work and recreation.

To be clear, too, HPRD is measured in two different ways. There’s funded HPRD, and

then there’s actual HPRD.

Funded refers to the funding calculation that determines the funding for long-term-care

operators for direct care staffing to achieve those targets. That calculation is based

on 100 percent bed occupancy. This is related to the conversation we’ve been having

around occupancy. So funded HPRD — ensuring that there’s sufficient direct funding

for a long-term-care operator that is operating at 100 percent occupancy, when the

facility is fully occupied. Now, as we were just canvassing, we are slightly below

100 percent.

That’s why the second way of measuring is around actual HPRD. Actual HPRD calculates

the amount of direct care that’s provided based on the beds that are actually occupied.

It’s a more accurate reflection, really, of the amount of care that residents are

receiving.

As of Q2 in ’24-25, all health authorities met or exceeded the 3.36 HPRD target. That

was for the fourth year in a row, with a forecast provincial average of 3.61. That

is where we are today. The member was just speaking to this.

[4:15 p.m.]

I want to talk a little bit, too, about the fact that by maximizing our occupancy

and approaching almost 100 percent, as we have done, and by increasing the HPRD from

3.11 to 3.36, we have been able to get ahead of some of the staffing issues that have

really beleaguered this sector for far too long.

That has been through one of government’s key initiatives in the health career access

program, as well as some of the wage-levelling work that’s been done and the enhanced

supports for physicians who work in long-term care. This is important to point out,

because by investing directly in the workforce, by doing the work to bring in eligible

operators under the HEABC, again, this is about stabilizing workforce.

This is about fair pay, fair working conditions that will help us overcome some of

the issues that we were facing when we formed government. That became all too clear

during the pandemic when workers who were being paid less than what they previously

were, because of the contracting out and because they were putting together a job

by working in multiple facilities, left, very sadly. There were some very poor outcomes

and devastating outcomes for families.

That is why we have worked so hard to do the training, the building up of staffing,

being able to exceed that HPRD standard of 3.36. There’s more work to do, and I will

always acknowledge that, because it’s important to exceed those targets and then to

keep looking forward to what the standard of care is that is required for the seniors

of our province.

Brennan Day : That doesn’t seem like much of an improvement year over year since the hours remained

flat.

I guess the follow-up question to that would then be: is there any goal by this government

to increase the hours per day to the national recommended minimum of 4.1 hours, or

are we just going to continue to strive for mediocrity?

[4:20 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : I think probably one of the biggest challenges for both myself and the member for

Courtenay-Comox is that neither of us were in government or elected as MLAs, casting

our minds back to ten years ago, to understand just what state the long-term-care

sector was in.

And I really want to focus on the incredible amount of work that has been done over

the past eight, nine years in investing in the sector, in catching up in the sector,

in building out the facilities — the beds, the renovations, the new beds — and, most

importantly, in investing in the workforce.

So I object to the characterization of mediocrity when what we are striving for here

is excellence. In order to do that, it has taken hundreds of millions of dollars to

invest directly into that workforce in order to raise and then meet the standards

of care that seniors deserve if they are living in long-term-care facilities.

I just want to talk about the health career access program that has enabled us to

provide the staffing that is truly required to meet these standards of care and that

it’s not just about having a person in the job doing the job. It is about the quality

of care that that person provides and, again, striving for that quality of care.

[4:25 p.m.]

In 2018, there were 33,506 registrants with the B.C. care aide and community health

care worker registry and, in 2024, 56,223 registrants — absolutely an incredible amount

of adding positions and being able to ensure that those care aides, community health

workers who are working with licensed practical nurses, with RNs, with the physicians

and all of the other workers that make a long-term-care facility operate….

We are always going to strive to do better, and I’m well aware of the work that the

member refers to. Now we have been able to do so much in stabilizing the workforce;

in being able to provide those good working conditions, the pay that is required and

that people truly deserve in this; and in being able to continue to make improvements

in the system; and to continue striving for excellence in terms of that quality of

care that we are providing for seniors in long-term care.

At the same time, and I won’t canvass it all over again, I’ll just reference back

to all the work the government has done to help people avoid or to delay admission

into long-term care by enabling and supporting seniors in being able to live at home

for as long as possible.

Brennan Day : Thank you, Minister.

I guess the answer, then, is no. We are not looking to meet the national recommended

minimum of 4.1 hours in B.C., despite many provinces across this country meeting that

number.

The other thing I would like to mention is that the minister loves to hide behind

percentage increase numbers. That’s what she did yesterday to justify 1.3 million

British Columbians without a doctor. But I will just refer again — since we’re in

the way-back machine, looking back near a decade — to the way you inherited the system.

I’ll read again from the seniors advocate’s report. Last year there were 7,029 clients

waiting for a publicly subsidized long-term-care bed. This year the minister has confirmed

there are now 7,829 clients on that list. That is a major increase over the last six

years — seven now. The average wait time for people to get on the wait-list has also

grown from 144 days to 287 days over the same period.

That is on this government, not the previous government. I’ll just make that clear.

We’ll go back to another question that we canvassed last year. It seems we’re right

back there again. At that time, the Minister of Health assured this House that the

ministry was committed to developing a fair and sustainable long-term-care funding

model to support the sector. She also vowed to provide additional funding for agency

and overtime costs to relieve cost pressures on operators and support them in the

meantime. I have the quotes from last year’s estimates if the minister would like

me to read them in.

On the long-term-care funding model specifically, the ministry committed that phase

1, direct care funding envelope, was expected to be completed by 2024-25, Q2. Phase

2, capital funding envelope, was supposed to be completed by fall 2024, and phase

3 was slated to be completed by spring 2025. The minister recommitted last year at

this time in estimates, and those deadlines have now all been missed.

Will this Health Minister provide this House with an update on the progress being

made on this work and a revised timeline of when this funding model should be deployed,

or can we assume that the Ministry of Health has abandoned the long-term-care funding

model work, as there have been no further updates or funding dedicated to it in this

budget?

[Mable Elmore in the chair.]

[4:30 p.m. - 4:35 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question. I know that the member understands the

importance of focusing on outcomes and not always on a specific model or specific

solution but, rather, on what approach we can take to help resolve issues and to provide

solutions.

Again, that is why government, in the long-term-care sector, has been very focused

on outcomes. We have canvassed issues around bed numbers, around occupancy rates,

around standards of care, around staffing levels, around fair pay and working conditions.

These are all components of the work that leads to the outcome we all desire, which

is the best care possible for seniors and people who are in long-term-care homes.

The way that we’re approaching this work, again, to reflect the nuances and challenges

of a sector that has multiple different types of operators, from health authority–funded

facilities to public funding in privately owned or non-profit-run centres and facilities,

needs to be accounted in this. There isn’t a single formulaic approach that’s going

to be able to help us achieve this.

That’s why focusing on more consistency across the sector, the work that we are doing

to bring in eligible operators under the HEABC, and the work that we’ve been doing

to standardize and, again, achieve more consistency in financial reporting is a very

important part of this so that we can understand the reality of each operator and

then be able to work with them on the public funding and the public funding of beds.

The long-term-care financial reporting tool is something that has enabled us to —

and it was developed, really, in response to recommendations that came from the Ombudsperson

and the office of the seniors advocate, again — improve ministry oversight of funding.

That oversight is very important. The accountability that is built into the system

for publicly funded beds and the accountability of how those public funds are used

to meet standards of care, to meet staffing levels that are required and to provide

that high-quality care, really comprise the approach to funding in the long-term-care

sector.

I’m just going to jump back to a previous question that the member had. He had asked

a question about net new publicly funded beds in the system that have been approved

to proceed to construction over the last year.

I’m just going to take a direct quote from the Minister of Infrastructure’s estimates

from a few days ago. “Over the last year, 699 net new health authority–owned and –operated

beds have been approved to proceed to construction. This number does not include all

of the net new beds that are created through funding from the Ministry of Health in

the for-profit and not-for-profit sector.”

Brennan Day : It sounds like the ministry will not be pursuing further discussions on a comprehensive

long-term-care funding model as she committed to last year. So we’ll just add that

to the list of promises from last year’s estimates that things were going to get better.

We have exactly the same amount of care hours per residents per day this year as we

did last year. We have 800 more people on a wait-list this year than we did last year.

And the days people are waiting for long-term-care beds have also increased, so I

would not say we are winning on the health care file.

I’m going to read a few questions into the record now because we’re taking 25 minutes

a question, so I won’t be able to get through my binder. I have not even scratched

rural health, and I’ll pass it over to my colleague. I did want to read one in full

into the record, because I think it’s an extremely important case study in where this

government specifically is failing the long-term-care sector.

Three Links Care Centre is a long-standing community-based non-profit seniors care

provider serving vulnerable seniors in Vancouver. It operates on thin margins and

reinvests every dollar back into care delivery. This care home is located in the riding

of the previous Health Minister, a senior member in this government.

[4:40 p.m.]

Like many non-profit care providers, Three Links has already been destabilized by

previous ministry decisions. We canvassed this fairly thoroughly in question period

last year, including the decision to defund overtime and agency staffing costs, safe

resident business capital and equipment purchases. Now with the withdrawal of wage-levelling

funding pending, the Three Links Care Centre is facing a substantial financial cliff.

Like many HEABC members, Three Links has been systemically underfunded for years against

the cost of these HEABC-negotiated collective agreements. This is because the true

cost of putting a registered nurse or a care aide on a floor for an eight-hour shift

is more than the funding provided by the government, particularly when one factors

in things like extra sick time, special levels, education leaves and other costly

requirements of this agreement.

The organization has been clear that it cannot absorb these additional structural

costs and is at serious risk of being forced to reduce services or, worse, cease operations

entirely. The closure or destabilization of a non-profit care home is not an abstract

policy issue. It has real consequences for seniors, families and front-line workers,

and it increases pressure on an already overstretched system.

They have requested that I ask these questions, Minister.

Is the minister aware that Three Links Care Centre, a non-profit seniors care provider

in Vancouver, is now at serious risk of closure as a direct result of the HEABC decision,

combined with earlier funding cuts to overtime and agency staffing?

What analysis did the ministry undertake to assess the cumulative impact of these

decisions on small and mid-sized non-profit care operators before mandating them into

the HEABC framework?

Can the minister explain how forcing financially fragile non-profit providers to absorb

additional HEABC-related costs without guaranteed sustainable funding aligns with

this government’s commitment to stability in seniors care? Without additional funding,

a small non-profit organization like Three Links will not be able to survive until

fiscal ’28-29. Does the minister understand the serious repercussions that this budget

will have on small operators?

I have a stack like that, but I’ll just read the rest of my questions into the record,

and then I’ll close.

Minister, how many long-term-care beds does the ministry project will be required

by 2030, and how many beds are currently planned to be built by that date? We know,

in this budget, six long-term-care facilities were re-paced, cancelled, so we’re falling

further behind.

I’d also love to know from the minister how many beds we are behind now. We’ve added

1,250 into the delay pipeline. We were over 2,400 beds short last year. I presume,

and the seniors advocate has confirmed this in several interviews, that we’re expected

to be short over 3,000 currently. The wait-list certainly reflects that.

Based on current projections, what is the expected long-term-care-bed shortfall in

British Columbia by 2030?

How many publicly funded assisted-living units in British Columbia today compared

to the same date five years ago?

How many long-term-care operators has the ministry assessed may reduce services or

beds as a result of these increased costs?

How many seniors in British Columbia today are currently waiting in hospital more

than six months for long-term-care placement? Based on the ALC figures the minister

cited earlier, we know that that number is growing.

How many senior British Columbians died last year waiting for long-term-care placements

with placements up to 2,800 or 1,800 days? We can presume that list is fairly lengthy

this year as well.

How many seniors were waiting for long-term-care placement five years ago, and how

many are waiting today?

How many long-term-care beds have been permanently closed in British Columbia in the

past three years, and how many of those beds were replaced?

I’ll move on now to rural physician access failure. The ministry tracks physician

vacancy rates across health authorities. What percentage of rural physician positions

are currently vacant in British Columbia?

Rural emergency department closures have occurred repeatedly due to staffing shortages.

The ministry tracks those closure hours. What was the total number of hours rural

emergency departments were closed in British Columbia last year?

Ambulance. EHS tracks ambulance response times across the province. What is the current

average ambulance response time in British Columbia? I would like that broken down

by rural and urban, because we know that the gaps are widening.

EHS tracks staffing levels and unfilled shifts. How many ambulance shifts went unfilled

last year due to staffing shortages in British Columbia? Again, I would like that

broken down by region.

Minister, the ministry tracks patient transport times between facilities. What is

the average time required to transport rural patients to hospitals capable of providing

necessary medical care? Quite concerning, given the ER closures in rural British Columbia.

[4:45 p.m.]

On nursing, the ministry tracks nurse staffing levels and vacancies across all health

authorities — 7,200 is the number you gave me yesterday.

EDRD. I’ll just talk about this for a second, because I had the unfortunate experience

of attending the MedAccess forum along with one of your deputy ministers. My understanding

from the deputy minister’s speech at the MedAccess forum was that the EDRD review

has not been concluded and there is no expected timeline for delivery of that report.

That is obviously concerning given the amount of case files that are coming through

my office and offices of my colleagues in regards to expensive drugs for rare diseases.

I would like the minister to provide a timeline of when the EDRD review is going to

come out. I would also request, in the spirit of transparency, that the entirety of

the 2021 report with recommendations to the EDRD be publicly tabled. It’s already

been partially leaked to the press, but I believe that would give us a good start

in reviewing and being able to benchmark the upcoming report against what the minister

already had in her hands in 2021.

Last year provincial data showed that patients admitted through emergency departments

wait a median of 19.8 hours, with up to 64.7 hours in the worst cases. What is the

current admission wait time in ERs across the province?

Executive compensation. Administrative spending accounts for approximately $3.8 billion

annually, or roughly 11 percent of the total health care spend. How much of the health

care budget is currently allocated to executive compensation? As well, it would be

great to know the number of executives working in the health care system that are

making over $300,000.

Specialist vacancies are also a problem across British Columbia, including vacant

anaesthesiology, radiology and psychiatry positions. How many specialist vacancies

exist today, broken down by specialty?

One other thing I will mention that I feel needs to be addressed by this government

and should be put out there for the public is the fact that everybody here has a story

about the wait to get to see a specialist. For my son, it was 18 months for a simple

tubal ligation. In that time, he was in the ER four times and he had his eardrum ruptured.

He was four years old at the time. Obviously, you know, as a father — absolutely ridiculous.

The cost to the system for that delay was in the order of magnitude of ten to 15 times

higher than the 30-second outpatient procedure that it required to fix it. These delays

are costing this health care system money, and the government doesn’t track specialist

wait times.

We know that that’s a concern across the system. That has been brought to us by the

Consultant Specialists of B.C. They’ve canvassed it heavily. I know the government

is aware, so it would be great if the government could pay more attention to that.

Again, I’ll go back to the premise of my private member’s bill and many of the points

I’ve made today. You can’t fix what you don’t measure, and if we’re not even measuring

wait-lists, we certainly have no ability to fix them.

I think I’m going to leave it there today and hand it off to my colleague Scott, who

I know had a couple of questions, but I do want to thank the minister for her time.

I’m disappointed we didn’t get through considerably more, despite the fact that….

And I will see it in the estimates binder once it’s reviewed.

I know some of those questions were at the fingertips, but I get that this is time

management on government’s time, and it’s very unfortunate British Columbians don’t

get to get a better snapshot of what is actually going on inside the Ministry of Health.

There is a transparency problem there that needs to be fixed, and I will certainly

keep pushing to fix it.

Thank you, Minister, and thanks to all the ministry staff.

Scott McInnis : I really appreciate my colleagues from Skeena, North Island and Courtenay-Comox just

for allowing me to ask a couple of quick questions here today on behalf of my constituents.

[4:50 p.m.]

First of all, there has been some progress made as far as health care is concerned

in our little corner of the province. I do appreciate the minister providing some

additional funding for Angel Flight East Kootenay — very much needed to continue that

service, moving forward — as well as the surgical procedures agreement with the province

of Alberta, a positive step in the right direction.

Just to note, Minister, that hopefully, I can get a briefing on that from your office

as soon as possible, just because I do have a lot of questions from constituents that,

at this moment, I’m unable to provide details on. So I do appreciate that in advance.

The minister and I have canvassed this several times over the past 18 months or so,

and I’m here on behalf of the health care workers in specifically the southern part

of my riding, Kimberley and Cranbrook, in order to address, again, the provincial

rural retention incentive. I’ve had the opportunity to discuss this issue several

times with local health care workers. There is a growing frustration as to their exclusion

from that program.

I’m going to front-load my question heavily. I would appreciate…. I know the minister

will refer to ongoing evaluation. I understand that. But I’m really hoping, from this

question today, that I will be able to be provided with some answers so I can share

that with these extremely important and hard-working health care workers in Columbia

River–Revelstoke.

I think the long “maybe” or the unsurety around whether they are able to acquire this

funding is becoming quite frustrating. I am friends with a lot of these people, and

I know some of them are considering moving to other regions of the riding where the

provincial rural retention incentive is available to them.

Two questions packed into one here. If the minister can please provide me with a concrete

breakdown of what the criteria specifically is for communities that receive the provincial

rural retention incentive, whether it’s geographic location, size of the population

— anything that can be helpful to pass along.

In Budget 2026-27, will health care professionals from Kimberley or Cranbrook be receiving

the provincial rural retention incentive in this year’s budget? If it’s just a simple

yes or no, that would be great for them to understand that.

Thank you to the minister.

Hon. Josie Osborne : We will come back to your question, Member.

But I move that the committee rise and report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The Chair : This committee stands adjourned.

The committee rose at 4:52 p.m.

The House resumed at 4:53 p.m.

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Mable Elmore : Committee of Supply,

Section B, reports progress of the estimates of the Ministry

of Health and asks leave to sit again.

Leave granted.

George Anderson :

Section A reports Bill 16 complete without amendment.

The Speaker : Members, the question is third reading of Bill 16, Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment

Act, 2026.

Motion approved.

The Speaker : Bill 16, Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 2026, has been read a third time and

has passed.

[4:55 p.m.]

Hon. Mike Farnworth : In this chamber, I now call the estimates for the Ministry of Health.

In

Section A, the Douglas Fir Room, I call the estimates for the Ministry of Mines.

The House in Committee,

Section B.

The committee met at 4:56 p.m.

[Mable Elmore in the chair.]

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Health

(continued)

On Vote 32: ministry operations, $35,968,875,000 (continued) .

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for Columbia River–Revelstoke.

Welcome.

[5:00 p.m.]

Thanks for the question and for the conversations that we’ve had over the past 18

months or so around the provincial rural retention incentive program. I appreciate

the advocacy that he’s doing for health care workers living in his region — asking

good questions.

When the program was initially launched, the key sites and professions were identified

through health authorities. The criteria used to determine those sites were based

on a combination of rurality, like geography, size and distance to other locations;

HR resource risk, really looking at difficult-to-fill vacancies; and the impact that

it could have on surrounding areas. At the time, around 80 communities were participating

in the program.

The program has expanded over time and, as the member indicated, the ministry has

undertaken work to evaluate the effectiveness of the program. That work is going to

help us guide the next iteration of what this program might look like.