British Columbia Hansard — Thursday, February 26, 2004

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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

5th Session, 37th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Thursday, February 26, 2004 Afternoon Sitting Volume 20, Number 18 THE HONOURABLE CLAUDE RICHMOND, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Honourable Iona Campagnolo 5TH SESSION, 37TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Claude Richmond EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations ...............................................................................................................Hon.

Sindi Hawkins Deputy Premier and Minister of Children and Family Development ................................................................................ Hon. Christy Clark Minister of State for Early Childhood Development...................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Advanced Education................................................................................................................................................ Hon.

Shirley Bond Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries..................................................................................................................... Hon. John van Dongen Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Treaty Negotiations..................................................................................... Hon. Geoff Plant Minister of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services ................................................................................................ Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of State for Immigration and Multicultural Services...................................................................................... Hon. Gulzar S. Cheema Minister of State for Women's and Seniors' Services................................................................................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Education ............................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Tom Christensen Minister of Energy and Mines...............................................................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining...................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Minister of Finance.........................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Gary Collins Minister of Forests................................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of State for Forestry Operations.................................................................................................................................. Hon. Roger Harris Minister of Health Services.........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of State for Mental Health and Addiction Services ....................................................................................................Hon. Susan Brice Minister of Human Resources........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of Management Services ............................................................................................................................................. Hon.

Joyce Murray Minister of Provincial Revenue.................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General...................................................................................................................... Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Skills Development and Labour......................................................................................................................Hon. Graham P.

Bruce Minister of Small Business and Economic Development ...............................................................................................................Hon. John Les Minister of Sustainable Resource Management ....................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of State for Resort Development............................................................................................................................... Hon.

Sandy Santori Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Kevin Falcon Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection ............................................................................................................................... Hon.

Bill Barisoff LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................John Weisbeck Leader of the Opposition .......................................................................................................................................................................Joy MacPhail Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole..............................................................................................................................................

Harold Long Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ........................................................................................................................................... E. George MacMinn Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk ...............................................................................................................................................................Ian D.

Izard Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ..................................................................................................................................................Anthony Dambrauskas Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Peter Bray Published by British Columbia Hans ard Services, and printed under the authority of the Speaker by the Queen's Printer, Victoria.

Rates: single issue, $2.85; per calendar year, mailed daily, $298. GST extra. Agent: Crown Publications Inc., 521 Fort St., Victoria, B.C. V8W 1E7. Telephone: (250) 386-4636. Fax: 386-0221. www.leg.bc.ca Hansard Services publishes transcripts both in print and on the Internet. Chamber debates are broadcast on television and webcast on the Internet.

Party Standings: Liberal 75; New Democratic 2; Independent Liberal 2. ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) ..........................................................................Shuswap Anderson, Val J. (L)............................................................... Vancouver-Langara Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)...............................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon.

Pat (L) ..................................................................Prince George North Belsey, Bill (L)....................................................................................North Coast Bennett, Bill (L) ..............................................................................East Kootenay Bhullar, Tony (Ind. L) ................................................................... Surrey-Newton Bloy, Harry (L).....................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L)..........................................

Prince George–Mount Robson Bray, Jeff (L) ........................................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Brenzinger, Elayne (L)..................................................................Surrey-Whalley Brice, Hon. Susan (L)...................................................................... Saanich South Bruce, Hon. Graham P. (L) ................................................. Cowichan-Ladysmith Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L) .............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Cheema, Hon.

Gulzar S. (L)............................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Chong, Hon. Ida (L) ......................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ...................................................... Okanagan-Vernon Chutter, Dave (L) ..............................................................................Yale-Lillooet Clark, Hon. Christy (L) ....................................................Port Moody–Westwood Cobb, Walt (L) ................................................................................Cariboo South Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) ..........................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)................................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Collins, Hon. Gary (L) ..........................................................Vancouver-Fairview de Jong, Hon. Michael (L) ........................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) ............................................................ Surrey-Cloverdale Hagen, Hon.

Stan (L) ......................................................................Comox Valley Halsey-Brandt, Greg (L) ............................................................Richmond Centre Hamilton, Arnie (L)..............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin Hansen, Hon. Colin (L) .......................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Harris, Hon. Roger (L) ................................................................................Skeena Hawes, Randy (L)............................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Hon.

Sindi (L) ........................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ..................................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Gordon (L)................................................................... Surrey–White Rock Hunter, Mike (L) ..................................................................................... Nanaimo Jarvis, Daniel (L)........................................................North Vancouver–Seymour Johnston, Ken (L)..............................................................

Vancouver-Fraserview Kerr, Brian J. (L) ................................................................ Malahat–Juan de Fuca Krueger, Kevin (L)................................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)................................ Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lee, Richard T. (L).........................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L)................................................................... Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)....................................................................

Chilliwack-Sumas Locke, Brenda (L) ............................................................. Surrey–Green Timbers Long, Harold (L) .................................................... Powell River–Sunshine Coast MacKay, Dennis (L)......................................................... Bulkley Valley–Stikine McMahon, Wendy (L).............................................. Columbia River–Revelstoke MacPhail, Joy (NDP) ............................................................

Vancouver-Hastings Manhas, Karn (L) ..............................................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Masi, Reni (L) ..................................................................................... Delta North Mayencourt, Lorne (L)............................................................Vancouver-Burrard Murray, Hon. Joyce (L)............................................................. New Westminster Nebbeling, Ted (L)..................................................... West Vancouver–Garibaldi Nettleton, Paul (Ind.

L) ...................................................Prince George–Omineca Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) ....................................................... Peace River North Nijjar, Rob (L).....................................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Nuraney, John (L)..................................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Orr, Sheila (L) .............................................................................Victoria-Hillside Penner, Barry (L)......................................................................... Chilliwack-Kent Plant, Hon.

Geoff (L) ........................................................... Richmond-Steveston Reid, Judith (L)....................................................................... Nanaimo-Parksville Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ..................................................................... Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L)...................................................................Kamloops Roddick, Valerie (L)............................................................................

Delta South Sahota, Patty (L).......................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Santori, Hon. Sandy (L) .............................................. West Kootenay–Boundary Stephens, Lynn (L).................................................................................... Langley Stewart, Ken (L)........................................................

Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Stewart, Richard (L)........................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Suffredine, Blair F. (L)..................................................................Nelson-Creston Sultan, Ralph (L) .........................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L)............................................................Okanagan-Westside Trumper, Gillian (L)..................................................................Alberni-Qualicum van Dongen, Hon.

John (L)..................................................Abbotsford-Clayburn Visser, Rod (L)...................................................................................North Island Weisbeck, John (L).......................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Whittred, Katherine (L).............................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wilson, John (L)..............................................................................Cariboo North Wong, Patrick (L)..............................................................Vancouver-Kensington LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn ........................................................ Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman................................................Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum ........................................................................

Gillian Trumper Bulkley Valley–Stikine ................................................................ Dennis MacKay Burnaby North................................................................................ Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds.............................................................................. Patty Sahota Burnaby-Willingdon ........................................................................John Nuraney Burquitlam............................................................................................

Harry Bloy Cariboo North..................................................................................... John Wilson Cariboo South........................................................................................Walt Cobb Chilliwack-Kent ................................................................................ Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas ........................................................................... Hon.

John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke .....................................................Wendy McMahon Comox Valley .............................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville............................................................... Richard Stewart Cowichan-Ladysmith .........................................................Hon. Graham P.

Bruce Delta North.............................................................................................Reni Masi Delta South...................................................................................Valerie Roddick East Kootenay .....................................................................................Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin .................................................................... Arnie Hamilton Fort Langley–Aldergrove....................................................... Hon.

Rich Coleman Kamloops ......................................................................... Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson.......................................................... Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country .................................................................John Weisbeck Kelowna-Mission ...................................................................Hon. Sindi Hawkins Langley........................................................................................... Lynn Stephens Malahat–Juan de Fuca.......................................................................

Brian J. Kerr Maple Ridge–Mission ......................................................................Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows............................................................... Ken Stewart Nanaimo .............................................................................................Mike Hunter Nanaimo-Parksville..............................................................................Judith Reid Nelson-Creston......................................................................... Blair F.

Suffredine New Westminster .................................................................... Hon. Joyce Murray North Coast .......................................................................................... Bill Belsey North Island.......................................................................................... Rod Visser North Vancouver–Lonsdale .................................................... Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour ..............................................................

Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head.................................................................Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon ..............................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside................................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Peace River North ...............................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South ..........................................................................Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley...................................................... Hon.

Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain......................................................Karn Manhas Port Moody–Westwood ...........................................................Hon. Christy Clark Powell River–Sunshine Coast............................................................Harold Long Prince George North .........................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson................................................. Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca .................................................................

Paul Nettleton Richmond Centre ...................................................................Greg Halsey-Brandt Richmond East ............................................................................ Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ...................................................................Hon. Geoff Plant Saanich North and the Islands..................................................Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South............................................................................. Hon. Susan Brice Shuswap ................................................................................

Hon. George Abbott Skeena .......................................................................................Hon. Roger Harris Surrey-Cloverdale ....................................................................Hon. Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers.....................................................................Brenda Locke Surrey-Newton ..................................................................................Tony Bhullar Surrey–Panorama Ridge................................................... Hon. Gulzar S.

Cheema Surrey-Tynehead .............................................................................Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley ........................................................................ Elayne Brenzinger Surrey–White Rock.......................................................................... Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard .................................................................. Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview..................................................................Hon. Gary Collins Vancouver-Fraserview .....................................................................

Ken Johnston Vancouver-Hastings......................................................................... Joy MacPhail Vancouver-Kensington .................................................................... Patrick Wong Vancouver-Kingsway............................................................................ Rob Nijjar Vancouver-Langara...................................................................... Val J. Anderson Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .............................................Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey..................................................... Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena ............................................................. Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill ...............................................................................Jeff Bray Victoria-Hillside.....................................................................................Sheila Orr West Kootenay–Boundary ......................................................Hon. Sandy Santori West Vancouver–Capilano ............................................................... Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi............................................................

Ted Nebbeling Yale-Lillooet .....................................................................................Dave Chutter

CONTENTS Thursday, February 26, 2004 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... .............................................. 8845 Tributes ....................................................................................................................... .............................................................. 8845 Boris Trajkovski Mr.

Speaker Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ......................................... 8845 Business Practices and Consumer Protection Act (Bill 2) Hon. R. Coleman Cremation, Interment and Funeral Services Act (Bill 3) Hon. R. Coleman Business Practices and Consumer Protection Authority Act (Bill 4) Hon. R. Coleman Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ............. 8846 Tourism in Victoria J.

Bray Black History Month R. Stewart Economic development in Pitt Meadows K. Stewart Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ......................................................... 8847 Open Learning Agency severance payments J. Kwan Hon. S. Bond Hon. G. Collins Remuneration of Crown prosecutors P. Nettleton Hon. G. Plant Young Liberals J. MacPhail Hon. G. Collins Cost of new Abbotsford hospital R. Hawes Hon. C. Hansen Auto theft prevention B. Locke Hon. G. Plant Literacy in B.C. K. Manhas Hon. T.

Christensen Tabling Documents.............................................................................................................. .................................................... 8850 Service Plan 2004/2005-2006/2007, auditor general report Mr. Speaker Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................... 8850 Ministerial Accountability Bases Act, 2003-2004 (Bill 10) Hon. G. Collins J. MacPhail

Motions without Notice ......................................................................................................... ................................................. 8851 Committee of Supply to sit in two sections Hon. G. Collins Throne Speech Debate (continued) ............................................................................................................................... .......... 8852 R. Visser R. Sultan R. Stewart H. Long K. Manhas K. Stewart Hon. J. Les Hon. R.

Coleman Royal Assent to Bills.......................................................................................................... ...................................................... 8874 Supply Act, 2003-2004 (Supplementary Estimates No. 3) (Bill 9)

8845 THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 The House met at 2:03 p.m. Introductions by Members Mr. Speaker: Good afternoon, hon. members. Today it was my pleasure, along with several of our colleagues in the House, to have lunch with a distin- guished delegation from Serbia and Montenegro. I'd like to introduce them to you at this time. Mr. Dragoljub Micunovic is President of the Parliament of Serbia and Montenegro. He is accompanied by Mr. Milorad Drljevic, Dr. Zarko Korac, Mr. Borisl av Banovic, Ms. Natasa Vuckovic, Ms. Svetlana Popov, Ms. Sanja Zikic and Mr. Branko Marjanac.

Our guests are also accompanied by officials from the Parliament of Canada: Ms. Christine Fisher, Ms. Danielle Gougeon and Ms. Mireille Aubé. Would the House please make them very welcome. [1405] Tributes BORIS TRAJKOVSKI Mr. Speaker: In the presence of our guests, hon. members, I would also like to acknowledge the sad news this morning that the President of the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Boris Trajkovski, was killed in a tragic plane crash in Bosnia.

On behalf of our Legislature, I would like to express our condolences to the Macedonian government and all residents of the Balkan region who are mourning his loss today. Introductions by Members Hon. J. Murray: I would like to introduce Ian de la Roche, who is the president and CEO of Forintek Can- ada Corp. Mr. de la Roche is visiting in the parliament buildings today. His organization is widely respected and supports the success of our important forestry sec- tor. Would the House please make him welcome. Hon. G.

Cheema: Today in the members' gallery I would like to acknowledge a special guest from the Ba- hamas. Please join me in welcoming His Excellency Phil- lip Smith, the high commissioner for the Common- wealth of Bahamas. This is the high commissioner's first official visit to British Colu mbia, and I am pleased that he has travelled to British Columbia to discover the many opportunities our beautiful province presents. He's accompanied by his wife, Etta Smith, and Mr. Jack Thompson, the deputy high commissioner. Would the House please make them very welcome. Hon. S.

Bond: It's my pleasure today to introduce someone from Prince George to my colleagues here in the House. He is a member of the Prince George school board. He is here meeting with several ministers and doing due diligence today — a good friend. Would the House help make John Rustad welcome today. D. Jarvis: I'd like to welcome today, for their first visit to the Legislature, three of my most favourite people — that is, my granddaughter, Emily Jarvis; my grandson, Jake Jarvis; and my first wife, Dianne Jarvis. B.

Penner: It's my pleasure to introduce to the House Fred Dyson, who is a state Senator from the great state of Alaska. He is also this year's president of the Pacific NorthWest Economic Region. He's joined by PNWER's hard-working executive director, Matt Mor- rison, and Michael Cormier, who is from the Victoria Harbour Authority. We've had a number of productive meetings with various ministers this morning. I'd like to thank the Speaker for his kind hospitality today at lunchtime. I ask that the House please make all of these gentlemen welcome. J.

Bray: Joining us in the gallery today are several students from one of the oldest high schools in British Columbia, Victoria High School, commonly and fondly known as Vic High. Joining them this afternoon on a tour is their teacher, Ms. Leslie Albers. I'd ask the House to please make these fine young people very welcome. Introduction and First Reading of Bills BUSINESS PRACTICES AND CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT Hon. R. Coleman presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Busi- ness Practices and Consumer Protection Act. Hon. R.

Coleman: I move that the bill be intro- duced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. R. Coleman: I have the pleasure today to in- troduce new consumer protection legislation for the province of British Columbia. The Business Practices and Consumer Protection Act is one of the three bills that I will be introducing to day, which will strengthen consumer protection in the province and support good business practices.

The first of these three bills, the Business Practices and Consumer Protection Act, repeals and replaces six consumer statutes: the Consumer Protection Act, the Cost of Consumer Credit Disclosure Act, the Credit Reporting Act, the Debt Collection Act, the Trade Prac- tice Act and the Travel Agents Act.

In addition, it re- places the contractual provisions of the Cemetery and Funeral Services Act. [1410] The streamlining of these acts will modernize con- sumer law, strengthen enfo rcement actions available under consumer law, make pe nalties consistent across industries, provide a consistent approach to dealing with regulated industries, fix problems that have been caused by repeated amendments to consumer law over

8846 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 the years, remove duplication and inconsistencies, and address new areas of consumer law in a manner consis- tent with other jurisdictions in Canada. I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 2 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. CREMATION, INTERMENT AND FUNERAL SERVICES ACT Hon. R.

Coleman presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Cre- mation, Interment and Funeral Services Act. Hon. R. Coleman: I move that the bill be intro- duced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. R. Coleman: I have the pleasure today to in- troduce new cemetery and funeral legislation for Brit- ish Columbia. Along with Bill 2, the Cremation, Interment and Funeral Services Act makes significant improvements to the Cemetery and Funeral Services Act.

While Bill 2 deals with consumer transaction matters for the indus- try, this act establishes rules relating to the operation of cemeteries, mausoleums, columbariums and cremato- riums. It also deals with land issues and disposition and disinterment of remains and activities that cannot be carried out on the land of a cemetery, mausoleum or columbarium.

Improvements to the Cr emation, Interment and Funeral Services Act include adoption of the stream- lined and enhanced enforcemen t tools outlined in Bill 2; clear requirements for opening and closing a ceme- tery, mausoleum or columbarium; and reduction of the regulatory burden on businesses. I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 3 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

BUSINESS PRACTICES AND CONSUMER PROTECTION AUTHORITY ACT Hon. R. Coleman presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Busi- ness Practices and Consumer Protection Authority Act. Hon. R. Coleman: I move that the bill be intro- duced and read for a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. R. Coleman: I have the pleasure of introducing the Business Practices and Consumer Protection Author- ity Act, the last of three bills I am presenting today.

This act establishes an independent authority to administer the Business Practices and Consumer Pro- tection Act and the Crematio n, Interment and Funeral Services Act. The new authority will deliver consumer protection services throughout the province and pro- mote fairness and understanding in the marketplace. It will administer and enforce the laws that protect all consumers and will regulate the travel, cemetery and funeral industries and debt collectors.

The new authority will enhance the oversighted consumer protection activiti es in B.C., increasing in- dustry and consumer involvement in consumer protec- tion, and will focus on consumer education. The Busi- ness Practices and Consumer Protection Authority will operate at arm's length from government as a non- profit corporation governed by a board of directors. The Business Practices and Consumer Protection Au- thority Act is another example of this government's commitment to put into place alternative and effective service delivery mechanisms.

I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 4 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) TOURISM IN VICTORIA J. Bray: This week tourism operators in B.C. were holding their annual conference here in our beautiful capital of Victoria. I think this is very apropos, because Victoria has become a tourism mecca for British Co- lumbia. In fact, tourism has outpaced all other indus- tries in growth over the past decade. In Victoria alone, it is worth over $1 billion to our economy. That means direct and indirect jobs, investment and economic di- versification. [1415] The world has noticed.

Condé Nast Traveler named Victoria best city in the Americas in 2003 and Vancou- ver Island the number one island in North America. That's a great achievemen t. Our government has worked hard with industry to help achieve these world-class results. Competitive tax rates, support for Tourism B.C. and the Greater Victoria Community Olympic Committee are all successful collaborations. The Museum Act passed last year helped establish the Royal B.C. Museum as a stand-alone entity, allow- ing it to significantly improve fundraising and employ more entrepreneurial activities to improve operating revenues. The Royal B.C.

Museum now anchors the cultural precinct in Victoria. Cultural tourism is one of the fastest-growing markets in this industry.

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 8847 I have spoken before about the desire of the Art Gallery of Greater Victoria to build an additional 35,000-square-foot exhibition space in the cultural pre- cinct. I continue to support this initiative and encour- age our government to also support this project and its positive impact on cultural tourism. Our cruise ship visits are projected to grow to a new record this summer, with 152 visits — a 50 percent increase since our election in 2001. [Applause.] You can applaud that. That's good news.

Our support of the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority has helped make the cruise ship terminal upgrade a reality. Many of our American tourists arrive in Victoria right outside the Legislature at the Belleville Street terminal. As our U.S. border facility, it is in need of expansion and improvement to handle the continued increase in tourism demand. I believe the Belleville Street terminal project to be the next key tourism in- vestment needed in this region. I urge our government to look forward and support this. BLACK HISTORY MONTH R.

Stewart: Last weekend I had the pleasure once again of attending the annual gala celebration of Black History Month in Vancouver, along with several of my colleagues, including the Minister of State for Immigra- tion and Multicultural Services. It is indeed a testament to the multicultural nature of our great province that this year's celebration took place at the Croatian Cul- tural Centre, while last year I attended a similar event at Alliance Française.

Many people might not be aware that British Co- lumbia has had a long and proud history of African immigration and influence dating back to the earliest days of pioneer settlement. In fact, B.C.'s first governor, James Douglas, was of British and African heritage. In 1858 Douglas extended an invitation to San Francisco's African American community to enjoy new lives as free citizens on the colony of Vancouver Island. More than 800 African Americans made the journey north, and upon their arrival they made numerous important contributions to the colony's social fabric.

This new and vibrant demographic formed one of the earliest colo- nial militia units, the Victoria Pioneer Rifle Corps. In 1972, B.C. elected its first black person to the Legislature — Rosemary Brown. She was a champion for human rights and women's equality. In 1994, Emery Barnes became the first black Speaker of the B.C. Legis- lature. I'm sure that the e fforts of both these members will be remembered for years to come. I could speak for hours about the many contribu- tions the black community has made to make B.C. a better place.

The 2001 census states that there are more than 662,000 Canadians who id entify themselves as black. They come from Africa, the Bahamas, the Carib- bean, the United States an d many other parts of the globe. The Ministry of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services has done an outstanding job in reaching out to our ethni c communities and develop- ing anti-racism strategies. I'd like to applaud this gov- ernment for establishing a Minister of State for Multi- culturalism. This new appointment can only mean that B.C.'s multicultural communities have an even stronger voice in Victoria.

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN PITT MEADOWS K. Stewart: Last Thursday, shortly after our gov- ernment delivered a balanced budget, I joined more than 50 Pitt Meadows business people representing groups from home-based business to major railroads and Fraser ports. We participated in a business and economic development summ it hosted by the Pitt Meadows economic development advisory committee. The goal was to look at ways to continue to develop our local economy, taking advantage of our natural attributes, our wealth of human resources and, of course, our proximity to Vancouver.

The local business community sees the tremendous potential with such initiatives as the Pitt Meadows Airport revitalization program, growing tourism and agritourism opportunities, the new Fraser crossing and the future upgrading of the Pitt River Bridge, Meadow town centre, the GVRD greenway plan, the proposed Codd Island conservation area, and of course the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games.

Business peo- ple know these initiatives are spurring local economic confidence and interest in our region. [1420] Round-table discussions took place on how to take advantage of these opportunities inherent in the initia- tives to build a sustainable and growing local economy. Following the round-table discussion, presentations were made based on strategies affecting sectors which include agriculture, transp ortation, tourism, commer- cial development for downtown and the Lougheed Highway, general industry, home-based business and education. This was a highly successful evening.

The confidence and energy expressed by the participants was indeed encouraging. It was also great to hear many present ex- press confidence in our government and optimism in the direction our government is going and the opportunities presented by a balanced budget. This is only the begin- ning of more great news for Pitt Meadows. Oral Questions OPEN LEARNING AGENCY SEVERANCE PAYMENTS J.

Kwan: Students and parents across B.C. are pay- ing through the nose for college and university, owing to Liberal tuition hikes, but it appears that senior post- secondary executives are getting special treatment from government to ensure that they're well taken care of. Can the Minister of Advanced Education explain why the former CEO of the Open Learning Agency, Ms. Terry Piper, was awarded $150,000 severance

8848 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 payment disguised as a completion bonus after only 16 months of work? Hon. S. Bond: I'll take that question on notice. Mr. Speaker: The member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant has a supplementary. J. Kwan: New question and new information. The $150,000 severance handed to Ms. Piper was $10,000 more than the government's legal advice said was ap- propriate — and only after the payment was deliber- ately disguised as a completi on bonus so as not to ap- pear as a severance payout.

The opposition has ob- tained leaked confidential minutes from the Open Learning Agency, which describe this deception in detail. Can the Minister of Advanced Education ex- plain why, at the April 5, 2002, board meeting, OLA directors conspired to change the wording of Ms. Piper's contract and that of vice-president Mr. Bill Harlan to hide the generous severance provisions em- bedded in their contracts? Hon. S. Bond: I can assure the House that should policy and practice not have been followed appropri- ately, we will certainly follow up on that immediately. J. Kwan: Well, those words bring little comfort.

Terry Piper was appointed as CEO of the Open Learn- ing Agency in June of 2002. Bill Harlan was appointed COO at the same time. According to the confidential minutes from April 5, 2002 , OLA board directors dis- cussed PSEC concerns that the $150,000 agreed to in Ms. Piper's and Mr. Harlan's contracts might be con- strued as severance payments. Therefore, according to those internal minutes, it was agreed to reword the language of the contracts to get around PSEC rules. On September 18, 2003, Ms. Piper resigned her po- sition to, in her own words, "go pick apples in Nova Scotia," and walked away with $150,000.

Bill Harlan is still on the payroll. Can the Minister of Advanced Edu- cation tell students and parents why they're paying more for education when senior executives at the Open Learning Agency are being handed huge severance payments disguised as completion bonuses? Will she order her deputy to rewrite Mr. Harlan's contract to protect taxpayers from this deliberate deception and tell us how many more sweetheart deals are being signed across government? Hon. G.

Collins: As the minister responsible for PSEC, I can assure this House that when we took office, there were literally hundreds of contracts in place that did not comply with policy — that were excessive. There were huge severance issues across the public sector. We brought in Bill 66, which standardized those provisions. Those provisions are expected to be fol- lowed. If individuals at any level have tried to avoid those policies…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order. Let us hear the answer. Hon. G.

Collins: If individuals at all have failed to comply with that or deliberately failed to comply with it, the appropriate action will take place. There's also provi- sion in the legislation that any contract wording that does not comply is null and void. If there is money ow- ing back to the taxpayers of British Columbia, we will pursue that in a necessary way to refund those amounts. [1425] It's a little hard to take the comments from the Leader of the Opposition about not being on the ball when ICBC, under her watch, spent $250 million on a building that was worth less than that. She has yet to apologize.

Interjection. Hon. G. Collins: Well, we could talk about that as well. Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Hon. G. Collins: The hypocrisy that comes daily from the member opposite is a little hard to take when you look at her record. Bill 66 was designed to clean up the actions by that government. We've done it. We'll recoup those funds if they're owing. REMUNERATION OF CROWN PROSECUTORS P. Nettleton: The Attorney General's response to the Taylor report and concerns of Crown prosecutors simply parrots the party line with no regard to the agreed process nor to the pub lic interest in preventing a strike.

Furthermore, this is an Attorney General that has presided over the closure of courthouses and legal aid offices, the elimination of victims services, and censure by his own colleagues within the legal profession — and his blind devotion to th e Premier and his heartless ideology. Will the Attorney General today do the right thing and be an advocate not only for Crown prosecutors but for the entire justice system? Hon. G. Plant: In the year 2000 the former govern- ment and the Crown Counsel Association entered into an agreement.

As a result of that agreement, the former government brought legislation into force that made the Crown Counsel Association th e recognized bargaining agent for Crown prosecutors in British Columbia. As a result of that agreement, there were negotia- tions. I believe prosecutors received just about an 8 percent pay increase over three years. Matters reached a point, as contemplated by this process last year, where an arbitration panel was constituted. A majority of the panel made a recomme ndation which, under the

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 8849 agreement and the process th at the Crown themselves had agreed to in the year 2000, government was free to reject. I examined the report ca refully. I gave careful con- sideration to the arguments made in the report and by the Crown Counsel Association representatives who met with me. While I can sympathize with the disap- pointment, I am resolute in my conviction that the case for a market adjustment was not made out. Crown counsel in British Columbia are fairly paid, and there the matter rests. YOUNG LIBERALS J.

MacPhail: There's an old saying, recently written up in the Times Colonist , that goes like this: "Young New Democrats go to convention to make policy. Young Tories go to convention to make contacts, and young Liberals go to conventions to get…." I won't say what it is. In the interests of parliamentary decorum, I'll leave the rest to your imagination. Let me read from a recent e-mail from the president of UVic Young Liberals, Dallas Henault, regarding this weekend's regional Liberal convention in Vancouver. After telling his readers the cost for this "exciting con- vention" — $30 for B.C.

Liberal Party members — Mr. Henault goes on to say: "The rest of the weekend is covered, which means ferry, booze, hotel and all the good stuff." If the old saying about young Liberals is true, can the Finance minister shed any light on what the B.C. Liberal Party will be covering — which Mr. Henault is calling "all the good stuff" — and can he tell us how much the B.C. Liberals, ou t of taxpayer dollars, are paying for "all the good stuff"? Mr. Speaker: The question really does not deal with ministerial responsibility. J. MacPhail: Well, Mr. Speaker, actually it does involve….

There's an issue of taxpayer dollars here. The upstanding young Libera l was seated behind the Finance minister during the budget speech, and he took great delight in the minister's elimination of stu- dent grants, increases to tuition and the continued gouging of low- and middle-income earners. The Finance minister is familiar with youth re- cruitment techniques and th e recent revelations about activities in his office. Could he tell us if Mr. Henault and other young Liberals have been told to clean up their act after the embarrassing revelations of B.C. Lib- eral youth activities over the past few months?

Or has he removed himself from yo uth politics since the raids on his legislative offices? [1430] Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. The question is out of order. The Minister of Finance may answer if he wishes. Hon. G. Collins: Well, I have another out-of-order question: did you ever pay back the $2 million your party stole from the charities in Nanaimo? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Will the Leader of the Opposition please come to order. The member for Maple Ridge–Mission has the floor. COST OF NEW ABBOTSFORD HOSPITAL R.

Hawes: I've stood…. Interjections. R. Hawes: Some of my constituents are interested in the question, not in listeni n g t o t h i s k i n d o f v e r b a l garbage. I've stood in this House many times to help counter the fearmongering and the misinformation put out by the Hospital Employees Union regarding the new Ab- botsford Hospital and Cancer Centre.

The latest self- serving document put out by the HEU points out some more erroneous figures, and even their own report says: "Costs in the original analysis were estimates based on our" — and that's the HEU — "interpreta- tion." That's hardly an en dorsement for unbiased accu- racy. Can the Minister of Health Services now confirm to my constituents and the residents of the Fraser Valley that this hospital is being carefully planned and that the latest cost estimates by the HEU are unfounded and unwarranted fearmongering? Hon. C.

Hansen: Well, first of all, I think we just have to acknowledge that after a decade and a half of promises by the previous government around a new hospital in Abbotsford, it's finally happening, because we deliver on our promises. I can assure the member that the information that was used by the Hospital Employees Union in their evaluation is old information based on a previous model.

The good news for the residents of the Fraser Valley is that we have expanded the scope of that pro- ject to make sure that we're ready not just for the health care system of the NDP generation in the 1990s but for the health care system of the future, which means that we have more ambulatory care. We've got more infec- tion control built into that facility. We actually have more space to allow for it to become a teaching hospi- tal, which is so important as we go forward into the future. This is an exciting project. There has been a lot of good work.

We have sought out worldwide expertise to make sure that this public-private partnership brings the best of everything, to make sure that the residents

8850 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 of the Fraser Valley get the kind of facilities they need going forward into the twenty-first century. AUTO THEFT PREVENTION B. Locke: My question is to the Attorney General. As part of the auto theft task force, last week I attended a public forum on auto theft held in response to Surrey being named the car theft capital of North America. My constituents are rightly fr ustrated and demanding ac- tion to combat the city's sp iralling car theft rate.

While there are things that we ca n do as individuals to com- bat the problem, a theme stemming out of the forum was in regard to the administration of justice. Can the Attorney General please tell the people of Surrey and the people of B.C. what is being done and what can be done to address auto theft? Hon. G. Plant: First of all, I know that auto theft is causing the people of Surrey and people everywhere a lot of frustration, and I shar e their concern. There is a lot of work being done that's good work.

There's great work being done by the Solicitor General in partner- ship with the police, in partnership with ICBC around the bait car initiative, including the PRIME-BC pro- gram to help deal with law enforcement at the street level.

I think it needs to be said — and I know that people in Surrey are working hard to advance this — that the devices that we can put on our steering wheels may be the best thing we can do to prevent car theft. [1435] But now we know that the judiciary are interested in making sure that their work has the confid ence of the public, and I applaud the judiciary for their progressive step in that regard.

In my ministry we are doing every- thing we can to contribute to constructive solutions to ensure that repeat offenders are dealt with appropriately by the court system, and we will continue to do that work so that the people of Surrey and British Columbia have confidence in the administration of justice. LITERACY IN B.C. K. Manhas: My question is to the Minister of Edu- cation. It's the goal of our government to become rec- ognized as the leader in literacy by the year 2010 in North America.

However, there is a little bit of confu- sion surrounding the funding for teacher librarians in our schools and how that affects students' opportuni- ties to improve their own literacy skills. I'd like the minister to please explain how we'll address this con- cern to ensure that our students are able to achieve their very best and that we do indeed become the most literate location in North America by the year 2010. Hon. T. Christensen: I think if there's one thing that every single member of this House can agree on, it's that strong literacy skills are essential to our stu- dents achieving their best.

That's why the Premier has pledged that by 2010, British Columbia will be the most literate jurisdiction in North America. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order. Hon. T. Christensen: This government has intro- duced school planning councils and accountability contracts to assist schools and school districts to im- prove student achievement. All 60 school districts throughout British Columbia have made literacy their number one priority. In fact , there is a concerted focus on early literacy and on in corporating literacy skills into all parts of the curriculum. This government has provided….

Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order. Order, Mr. Min- ister. We'll continue when we have order in the House. Hon. T. Christensen: The government has pro- vided an accountability framework. School districts, teachers and principals are all working hard to ensure that within that framewor k, they're working to im- prove student achievement. I'm confident that we will reach that goal of being the most literate jurisdiction in North America by 2010, just as the Premier has prom- ised. [End of question period.] Tabling Documents Mr. Speaker: Hon. members, I have the honour to present the auditor….

Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Excuse me. Excuse me. I'm sorry to interrupt you, Leader of the Opposition. I truly am. There is another question period coming up Monday, and I'm sure the opposition would like to participate. I have the honour to present the auditor general's Service Plan 2004/2005-2006/2007. Orders of the Day Hon. G. Collins: I call second reading of Bill 10. Second Reading of Bills MINISTERIAL ACCOUNTABILITY BASES ACT, 2003-2004 Hon. G. Collins: I move second reading of Bill 10, the Ministerial Accountability Bases Act, 2003-2004. This bill is the second pa rt of an introduction….

It attaches to the introduction and passage of supplemen- tal estimates for the Ministry of Agriculture yesterday. As well, it deals with the issu es that have arisen in the last fiscal year with regard to the Ministry of Forests and the Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General.

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 8851 As the House will be aware, this last year the prov- ince of British Columbia was hit with a number of natural disasters: the forest fires in the interior, the BSE infection amongst the cattle industry here and the im- pacts of that — or the impacts of that infection — across Canada and in the United States, as well as the costs of floods and fire control from the Ministry of Solicitor General. [1440] At the time last fall when those events were occur- ring, I made it clear that the government would obvi- ously do whatever was required to put the fires out, to deal with the flooding, to support our agriculture sec- tor due to these natural disasters, and that we would bring back to the House, if required, a supplemental estimate to pay for those.

You will know that the Min- istry of Forests as well as the Ministry of Solicitor Gen- eral both have statutory provision for their expendi- tures. It was also said at that time, last fall, that we would be bringing into the House legislation to pro- vide for the exemption under the ministerial account- ability act for those three ministers.

In contemplation of the creation of this legislation, the issue arose with regard to these kinds of eventuali- ties and whether or not exem ptions should be put in the act itself to deal with that, as was the case in the legislation that the previous administration had before the House.

It was felt at that time — rather than put a standard provision into the legislation that would al- low members to just declare that there was a natural disaster or an emergency and have an exemption there- fore — that we would require members to come into the House, require the minister to come into the House and request that exemption of the members of the chamber. It's obviously up to members of the House whether they think that's appropriate.

I believe, given the disasters that the province faced last year, that the inability to anticipate them in any way, shape or form is good grounds for an exemption under the ministerial accountability act. This bill does that. It does it by going back and referencing the budget numbers in the estimates that were presented at the beginning of the last fiscal year and adding to them the sum that is included ei ther in a supplemental esti- mate or through statutory approval. Then we'll com- pare that with the number th at comes out of the public accounts at the end of the year.

That is the mechanism that's being used here to accommodate this provision. J. MacPhail: Most of my questions around this mat- ter will be at committee stage. I find it interesting how the Finance minister always has the take that these are improvements over what was a disaster before. If in- deed it is true that his legislation is an improvement on previous legislation, we're going to put that to the test at committee stage. It is unfortunate that we won't have the benefit of the Filmon repo rt to actually examine the nature and the value of the expenditures.

We will be looking at the provincial emergency program and changes that have occurred there, the impact it had on the supplementary estimates. We will be examining in detail the effect that it ha s had on the salaries and the stipends — what this means in terms of salary and sti- pends for the individual ministers. We're going to take the Finance minister up on his assertion that this is such an improvement to debate this in the Legislature. Only this Finance minister could make it a partisan issue — forest fires — in this prov- ince. Let it be so, Mr. Speaker, and we will be examin- ing it top to bottom. Mr.

Speaker: The Minister of Finance closes debate. Hon. G. Collins: I fail to see how it has been made a partisan matter, other than the questions that were asked last fall by the members of the opposition with regard to payment that was happening across the prov- ince. My comments were merely to explain why this legislation is required and the rationale behind the structure of the legislation that was put in place with the ministerial accountability act. If the member for some reason views that as being partisan, I would per- haps suggest that her skin is becoming thinner all the time.

I think the legislation does exactly what it was in- tended to do. It provides a venue for that debate to occur. I look forward to any comments members may have in committee stage for debate and questions or suggestions. We always do. With that, I move second reading. Motion approved. [1445] Hon. G. Collins: If I may, there is a motion that's in the hand of the Clerk as well as the opposition. It's the standard motion at the beginning of the session to set up the provisions to run two committees of supply, one in the Douglas Fir Room and one here. It's the same standard motion that the House moves every year.

I request leave to introduce and then move that motion. Leave granted. Mr. Speaker: Please proceed. Motions without Notice COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY TO SIT IN TWO SECTIONS Hon. G. Collins: I move the motion that's in the hands of the Clerk. [Be it resolved that this House hereby authorizes the Committee of Supply for this Session to sit in two sec- tions designated

Section A and

Section B;

Section A to sit in such Committee Room as may be appointed from time to time, and

Section B to sit in the Chamber of the As- sembly, subject to the following rules: 1. The Standing Orders applicable to the Committee of the Whole House shall be applicable in both Sections of the Committee of Supply save and except that in

Section

8852 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 A, a Minister may defer t o a Deputy Minister to permit such Deputy to reply to a question put to the Minister. 2. Subject to paragraph 3, within one sitting day of the passage of this Motion, the House Leader of the Opposi- tion may advise the Government House Leader, in writ- ing, of three ministerial Estimates which the Opposition requires to be considered in

Section B of the Committee of Supply, and upon receipt of such notice in writing, the Government House Leader shall confirm in writing that the said three ministerial Estimates shall be considered in

Section B of the Committee of Supply. 3. All Estimates shall stand referred to

Section A, save and except those Estimates which shall be referred to Sec- tion B under the provisions of paragraph 2 of this Order and such other Estimates as shall be referred to

Section B on motion by the Government House Leader, which mo- tion shall be governed by the provisions of Standing Or- der 60A. Practice Recommendation #6 relating to Con- sultation shall be applicable to this rule. 4.

Section A shall consist of 19 Members, being 17 Mem- bers of the B.C. Liberal Party and 2 Members of the New Democratic Party. In addition, the Deputy Chair of the Committee of the Whole, or his or her nominee, shall preside over the debates in

Section A. Substitution of Members will be permitted to

Section A with the consent of that Member's Whip, where applicable, otherwise with the consent of the Member involved. For the fifth session of the Thirty-seventh Parliament, the Members of

Section A shall be as follows: the Minister whose Estimates are under consideration and Me ssrs. Bennett, Bloy, Bray, Hamilton, Hunter, Jarvis, Lee, MacKay, Manhas, Penner, R. Stewart and Visser, Mmes. Locke, Orr, Sahota, Trumper and Mmes. Kwan and MacPhail. 5. At fifteen minutes prior to the ordinary time fixed for adjournment of the House, the Chair of

Section A will report to the House. In the event such report includes the last vote in a particular ministerial Estimate, after such report has been made to the House, the Government shall have a maximum of eight minutes, and the Opposi- tion a maximum of five minutes, and all other Members (cumulatively) a maximum of three minutes to summa- rize the Committee debate on a particular ministerial Es- timate completed, such summaries to be in the following order:

(1) Other Members;

(2) Opposition; and

(3) Government. 6.

Section B shall be composed of all Members of the House. 7. Divisions in

Section A will be signalled by the ringing of the division bells four times. 8. Divisions in

Section B will be signalled by the ringing of the division bells three times at which time proceed- ings in

Section A will be suspended until completion of the division in

Section B. 9.

Section B is hereby authorized to consider Bills referred to Committee after second reading thereof and the Stand- ing Orders applicable to Bills in Committee of the Whole shall be applicable to such Bills during consideration thereof in

Section B, and for all purposes

Section B shall be deemed to be a Committee of the Whole. Such refer- rals to

Section B shall be made upon motion without no- tice by the Minister responsible for the Bill, and such mo- tion shall be decided without amendment or debate. Practice Recommendation #6 relating to Consultation shall be applicable to all such referrals. 10. Bills or Estimates previously referred to a designated Committee may at any stage be subsequently referred to another designated Committee on motion of the Gov- ernment House Leader or Minister responsible for the Bill as hereinbefore provided by Rule Nos. 3 and 9.] Mr. Speaker: It's the same motion that's moved every year at this time. Motion approved. Hon.

G. Collins: I move that Bill 10 be referred to Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 10, Ministerial Accountability Bases Act, 2003- 2004, read a second time and referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Hon. G. Collins: Now I call Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne. Throne Speech Debate (continued) Mr. Speaker: Address in Reply continues with the member for North Island. R.

Visser: When I was speaking last time in a brief introduction to my reply to the throne speech, I think I was in a little different mood. North Island is one of those great places that is wonderful to live in but is being visited upon by some tremendous structural econ omic forces. It makes it challenging for the people that are there — that live there, that work there, that are trying to raise their families there.

Issues that we hear about on the news — the Canadian dollar, the price of copper, the price of lumber, labour costs in China, shrinking markets, dif- fering markets — all have a human face there some days. I was in Port Alice yesterday. Port Alice is a beauti- ful little town on the northern tip of Vancouver Island. In 1908 some entrepreneurs came along and decided that would have been a good place for a pulp mill. By 1913 a company had in production a cellulose pulp mill.

Yesterday when I visited the community again, as I have done nearly monthly now for the last couple years, there is renewed talk of it closing because the parent company is struggling in the process of creditor protection. The markets in th at industry have shifted over the last few years, and for that little community of Port Alice, the world has changed. It doesn't feel very good to represent that. It's not a success. It's not what people like any of us in this House seek office for — to watch a small town go through something like that. On the northern end of Vancouver Island I've seen it too many times.

We saw it happen in Gold River when the pulp mill there closed in 1995-96. We saw it again in Tahsis a year and a half ago when the sawmill there officially closed after being down for two years.

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 8853 This kind of shift has an even longer history than that in our area. There are whole towns that used to exist and that used to have thriving hospitals, commu- nity centres and schools, which are now mere pilings eroding at the water's edge. I don't think that's the fate of this community. That's not the sense I get from the people there. It's not the sense that I get from their leadership. They're fighters, and they're going to make every effort to get this to work.

Those economic forces — those winds are strong, and the challenge that's faced in the financial world for them is uphill. [1450] I have to tell you, Mr. Speaker, that the government does have an obligation to communities like that. We have an obligation to the Barrieres, the Port Alices, the Tahsises of the world. The ob ligation is this: to assist where we can, to not be the barrier to their success, to have policies that allow them to move forward and to let them be all that they ca n be.

This government needs to work with that industry and its leadership, the fi- nancial community and its leadership, and the com- munities and the workers an d the staff and their lead- ership to find ways to achieve success. When you sit around the table with these folks, none of us underestimate the challenge ahead. As we come to deadline after deadline in the courts and as this drags on over what is now close to two years, where people's lives have been interrupted, where they've only worked about a couple of months in the last year, hanging on to that community…. The mayor did a straw poll.

The town used to be 1,100 people. Today he figures it's somewhere just over 700. We've got some work to do. As a representative of this gov- ernment, it is going to be challenging to find ways through. But you can't take your eye off all the successes that are out there. There are othe r things that communities like Port Alice can count on. There are other things we have neglected over the years that we have to encour- age now. Shellfish aquaculture won't replace a pulp mill, but it will provide some distance and some strength to that community .

Small-scale salvage won't replace a pulp mill, but it will provide some strength to that community and some diversity. Tourism will not replace a pulp mill and the GDP that it creates, but it will provide some stability and some diversity. Mining may, but nobody guarantees that the hills surrounding little communities like that are full of minerals. They do have a limestone quarry there that's been operating for years. They do have a finfish aquaculture hatchery there that's been operating for a few years. They do have some abilities for diversified success. They are moving forward.

There are little communities out there that do that. Think about Tahsis for a minute. The community of Tahsis used to get a million dollars a year — roughly about a million, just shy — from the company for its sawmill in property taxes. When they closed the mill and started taking it apart, that number dropped to $8,000. It's hard to run a town on an industrial tax base of $8,000 when you go from $1 million. The same thing happened in Gold River.

Governments can be there, and we have been and will be there for those commu- nities when they suffer those things — to help them with transition, to help them plan for the future, to help them seize opportunities that are out there. On the northern end of Vancouver Island there are run-of-the-river projects slated for hydro and energy development. There are wi nd farms that are being talked about for electrical energy development to pro- vide those much-needed el ectrons for Vancouver Is- land. There are opportunities, and there is hope.

Tahsis and its mayor made a presentation to the Premier last year that I th ought was spectacular. They called it Tahsis 2010. It's that council's vision of what that community's going to be like in six years. It's a great vision. It's a vibrant community. It certainly is a different community. [1455] They recognize now that nobody is going to build a new sawmill in Tahsis. So they're counting on some things. They're counting on things like community forests, like I know Port Alice, Port McNeill and Port Hardy are. They're counting on salvage industry, like I know those other communities are.

They're counting on shellfish aquaculture, like those other communities are. They're counting on fi nfish aquaculture, like those other communities are. They're counting on run-of-the- river power projects, like th ose other communities are. Government's job is to allow them to seize those oppor- tunities, allow those communiti es to reach their vision in 2010. I was there last year, an d they had a cruise ship called The World tied up at the dock.

What a marvellous thing it was to have driven into Tahsis for years and years, where at times there were freighters loading lumber at the deep-sea port , and to drive into that community and see this monstrosity of a vessel there and all of the passengers off milling about in what is unquestionably a beautiful li ttle town in a very beauti- ful part of the world. That's part of their vision for the future. I had this idea that they should partner with Gold River. They should build a go lf course there, and they should become the back nine for the Gold River golf course — a little fishing, a little golf.

Now, the club- house turn is 64 kilometres ov er a gravel road, but hey, I think it would be the only golf course in the world — and I have not verified this, but I'm going to run with it anyway — that you can tie up your cruise ship to. Mr. Speaker, I know what a fan of cruise ships you are. You may have to play nine holes in Tahsis someday, which would be a wonderful thing for a community like that. Those communities struggle, and those people struggle. It doesn't seem fair , and it doesn't seem right.

The interesting thing about Port Alice is that in the last three, four, five years that I've been there talking to those folks, every single time they say: "What hap- pened in Skeena and the way you bailed out Skeena — we don't want that. It's not going to help us. You can't spend $500 million and get us nowhere, because we'll be right back in this boat again."

8854 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 The forest industry is going through a structural change. We saw it in the Pearse report. It's visited in the employment numbers. It's visited in the shipments. It's visited in the capital invested in this industry on the coast of British Columbia. All of those numbers are down, down, down. This year, as recognized in the throne speech, 2003 was the year of the forests.

If 2003 was the year of the forests because of hard, complex, forest policy shifts, then the year 2004 should be the year of success in forestry, where we start to reap the benefits of that policy change, where we start to be able to withstand those economic winds out there that chal- lenge us. I'm confident, very confid ent, that these shifts are going to get us to where we need to be, where we're turning around this indust ry, where we're engaging with those entrepreneurs ag ain, where we're engaging with those investors so that that money starts showing back up here.

I am confident we will be putting in new plant. We'll be buying new trucks, buying new log loaders, buying new yarders — going beyond that and buying new sawmills — increasing our productivity, competing in that world, introducing new products, engineering new wood products and finding new mar- ketplaces abroad. This is the year we start to engage in that process and win some successes back for our small communities. [1500] Government has to build a foundation for that, so we make forest policy changes. We also do some other interesting things.

I think we have brought a certain discipline and a certain meaningful perspective to the concept of land use planning in British Columbia. Be- yond all hope or expectation, I think, a group of people on the central coast of British Columbia have arrived at a consensus plan for land use from roughly Bute Inlet to Bella Coola. Now, that's not my area, but it is where the people who live in my communities work. I grew up in Camp- bell River. I can tell you, when you grow up there, one of the things you know about is camp life. Sometimes your dad's gone for ten days an d home for four.

Sometimes your neighbour's parents are gone for 14 and seven. You get outside of coastal British Columbia, and nobody understands what ten and four or 14 and seven or 21 and seven means. When you grow up in those commu- nities, you sure do. For those 21 days, those 14 days, those ten days, our parents were in camp. They were in Wakeman Sound. They were in Mackenzie Sound. They were in Jervis Inlet or Bute or nights in logging camps working, providing for their families. There has been a lot of tu rmoil on the central coast. We have engaged in a process that I think….

When you put an end point on it, when you put an end date on it and put expectations on that table, you put expecta- tions on those interests and you get them in that room and you get them all working together and you ask first nations to be participants in it, you are willing to engage with those first nations in government-to- government discussions, you will be able achieve suc- cess. I think, finally, we might have come to some resolu- tion on the central coast. I f eel optimistic about it. I feel as though we're gonna get back to work there.

I feel as though the cut that has been back down to 1.6 million, 1.7 million or 1.8 million cubic metres last year will be able to ramp back up to three million metres where it belongs, where it is sustainable and meaningful for the communities of Bella Coola, Port McNeill, Port Hardy and Campbell River and indeed many others. [J. Weisbeck in the chair.] It's a good thing. It makes you feel good. It makes us feel as though the world around us is starting to stabilize.

The Ministry of Forests right now — cur- rently in ongoing, consulta tive back-and-forth negotia- tions to protect the broader community and the inter- ests of the workers in British Columbia — is going through a takeback exercise. I think we'll have some final results in that over the next few days. I'm encour- aged to know that I think we're getting to where we need to be in that file. We're getting to where we can commit to first na- tions.

I think we signed 29 forest agreements worth just under 7.25 million cubic metres of wood, and we're revenue-sharing almost $40 million this year with first nations where they're actua lly becoming involved in that forest economy. Communities like the Quatsino first nations commu- nities, Kyuquot on the west coast of Vancouver Island and Klemtu all need to become involved in this econ- omy of ours. For too long they've not been involved. For too long that relationship has been antagonistic and challenging and difficult, and for too long it has headed to the courts.

For too long the courts have been telling successive governments of the day that you need to move forward on the issue of aboriginal rights entitle- ment. This government is doing that, and day in and day out the Minister of Forests, the Minister of Sustainable Resource Management and others in treaty negotiations are moving this province forward with agreements. I think we're moving in a bunch of other industries too.

It was announced last week that a company in Toronto called Breakwater Resources — primarily a a zinc producer from around the world — has purchased or is offering to purchase the Myra Falls operations, the copper-zinc mine in Campbell River from Boliden, a Swedish zinc metals producer. [1505] I sent a quick note off to the CEO of this company thanking him. I got a note back that said they're look- ing forward to coming back to British Columbia. They're looking forward to being here because they heard that the mining industry in this province is turn- ing around.

They've heard it loud and clear from around this world — and that's where all their opera- tions are — that this province is open for mining, that this province wants the mining industry back here again. It is places like Myra Falls and Campbell River that mine in one of the most spectacularly, environmentally

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 8855 honest ways that any mine has ever done in the heart of Strathcona Park, the oldest park in British Columbia. It has been there for 25 years. With luck and good hard work and with good solid investment, good productiv- ity and the winds of the economic forces of the world, it should be there for another 25 years. It's good to have people thinking about British Co- lumbia.

It's good to see th ose capital markets around this world looking at assets in British Columbia again, saying: "We need that as a key part of the foundation of our future moving forward." I know that many of the people at the mine are excited about this. This mine will get some new focus and be able to start exploring again underground, will start developing new re- sources underground and will be there for the long term in that community. We're moving ahead with mining, and I think that's good news in British Columbia.

The Quatsino first na- tion is working hard with a company called Electra Gold to put in a modest geyserite quarry. Geyserite is one of those industrial minerals we use to help in cement- making, and it's a great opportunity for the first na- tions and a great opportunity for cement businesses in Seattle and Vancouver. It's a great product, and they're moving forward with those types of investments here in the North Island but, most importantly, in British Columbia. There are lots of things we've got to do. There are lots of doors we have to open.

We have to open doors in tourism and in fisheries, and those two things are more linked than you could ever imagine. We need to build a very constructive relationship, one that has not been particularly constructive in the past, with the fed- eral Department of Fisher ies and Oceans. British Co- lumbia and Canada have got to figure out a manage- ment scheme and a management arrangement that allow the interests of British Columbians to be fore- centre of decisions made in Ottawa around fisheries policy.

It is no secret out there in my riding of North Island and in many other ridings th at there are complications in the relationship and that the federal entity presents challenges to us, but they are things we can work through. There are things that the Minister of Fisheries is trying hard to work th rough and things even the Premier is working through. We need to connect that. We need to draw the line between those two organiza- tions, between ours and thei rs, so that the people of this province start to benefit. They need to benefit in the commercial fishery.

They need to benefit in aquaculture, shellfish and fin- fish. They need to benefit in forestry, in land develop- ment and in tourism opportunities, because those rules that regulate when you can catch a fish are the same rules that regulate who's going to bother coming to British Columbia on a fishing trip. For places like Tahsis, Port Alice, Port McNeill and certainly Campbell River, which has prided itself on being the salmon capital of Canada, that's an important piece of informa- tion.

That's an important de cision, and it's something that a better relationship between Ottawa and British Columbia will provide some certainty for and some security to that investment that tourism operators make. [1510] I want to talk a little bit about the throne speech and the Olympics. I ran into the coach of British Co- lumbia's Special Olympics floor hockey team the other day in Campbell River. For Darcy, Dave, Hazen, Beau, Ben and the others, they won silver back east. What a great accomplishment.

It was in that room in Campbell River when we sent them off that for the first time for me, other than being at the Olympic announcement, I actually got just a small sense of what it is going to be like in 2010. If we can just capture some of that every now and then, if we can just bring that feeling to the people of British Co- lumbia every now and then, it's going to be a great six years we've got ahead of us. You know, I can feel the energy building. It builds on Mount Washington. It's building across the com- munities of the North Isla nd.

It's building because people want to bring the world to our part, our little corner. They want to brin g folks here and share our world with them. The throne speech talked about the B.C. Rail–CN partnership, and I am very supportive of that deal. Coming from a constituency that has virtually no rail- roads in it — or ones that go anywhere other than within the constituency — p e o p l e a s k : " W e l l , w h y would you care?" I think it is important to care, and here's why.

If we're bringi ng the world to British Co- lumbia, I want that world to travel up Vancouver Is- land, and I want that world to get on a ferry in Prince Rupert. I want those people to travel the beautiful In- side Passage, the trip between northern Vancouver Island — Port Hardy — and Prince Rupert, or Port Hardy and Bella Coola. I want them to get off that ferry, I want them to get on a rail passenger train out of Prince Rupert, and I want them to go over to Banff or Jasper or Calgary and then back to Vancouver again. We need that kind of infrastructure. We need that kind of entrepreneurial spirit.

We need that kind of energy out there in this province again so that we can legitimately go out to that world and say: "Come and visit us, and here's where you can go." This has been an amazing three years. It has been a bumpy three years for many communities on the North Island, but every single time we have hit a bump in a road, they found a solution. Every single time there has been a crossroads, they've take n the right path. It is the government's obligation to help those folks down that path.

It's government's obligation to be there for those communities and to work hard with them to allow them to seize every opportunity they can. I'm happy to respond to this throne speech, and I look forward to next year's. R. Sultan: I respond to the Speech from the Throne where the Lieutenant-Gover nor addressed bringing out the best in our economy. She said: "…costs have been lowered, tax rates have been cut, red tape has

8856 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 been reduced, competitiveness is being restored, pro- gress has been made, and results are beginning to show. Next week your government will table a bal- anced budget, right on schedule." That's what she said. I would like to remark upon one dimension of the program of this government which I think will play an important

part in restoring the economy, as the Lieutenant-Governor referred to it. I refer to what some thoughtful people in the financial community are refer- ring to as the sleeper in the government's program. The sleeper in the government's program, in their opinion, may well turn out to be the proposed legislation deal- ing with international financial centres. [1515] To understand what international financial centres are all about, let me give you some personal history. In the seventies I was working with a very large banking institution in Montreal.

In those days, Montreal was not quite prepared to concede that maybe the world had shifted to Toronto — perhaps not unlike Vancou- ver saying: "What are those upstarts in Calgary think- ing about? We're the centre of the universe out here in the west." However, the acceleration of head offices — and in particular the financial community — from Montreal to Toronto accelerated under the impulse of what was called the terrorist organization Front de Libération du Québec, the FLQ, to be followed politically by the ac- cession to office of the Parti québécois under René Lévesque and Jacques Parizeau.

These people made it very plain, even prior to the election, in their visits and luncheons with us — our little tête-à-têtes, as we tried to understand what their program was — that there was really no place in Montreal for institutions like a major, largely anglophone bank. The message was re- ceived and people left — in the night, quietly, but they left. Gradually, the level of activity in the community subsided. While those of us who remained enjoyed a very intense social life, ther e were fewer of us around because many of our friends and neighbours had moved to Toronto.

I think even the bureaucrats in Quebec City realized this was not a very good eco- nomic strategy and thought: "My goodness, we have to do something to restore economic vitality to the finan- cial sector of Montreal." As frequently is the case , they looked to Ottawa for a solution. They went up there and said: "Why don't you pass some special legislation so that financial transactions in Montreal can be conducted tax-free?

That would give us a big hand-up over Toronto." The people in Ottawa said: "That's a good idea." The people in Toronto didn't think it was such a good idea, and there was a huge uproar and delegations, briefs, lobby- ing — all the stuff that goes on. Finally a deal was made. Yes, Montreal would get its tax-exempt status for international financial transac- tions, but to provide balance in Canada they wouldn't help Toronto because that would, of course, destroy the whole point.

They wanted a leg-up over Toronto, but there is that city way up there in the west coast that we hear about occasionally called Vancouver, so why don't we give the same tax-exempt status to Vancou- ver? The deal was made, and Canadian balance and unity were restored. The folks in Vancouver, you know, when they weren't busy skiing and sipping on their lattes, didn't really know what hit them. It seemed like a nice idea, but they really didn't feel much necessity or compul- sion to take advantage of this new legislation, unlike the folks in Quebec.

Let's gi ve them full tribute for the entrepreneurs and the hustling people they are. These people get in there and do business. They created a whole structure around both federal and provincial tax exemptions for international financial transactions. To this day, some 1,500-plus people are employed and billions of dollars of transa ctions are flowing through Montreal tax-free.

While eventually people in Vancouver awakened to the possibilities, it was always on a very low scale compared to Montreal and never really provided Montreal with any serious competition, which is probably what the people in Montreal assumed would happen all along. That was more or less the case until a year or so ago when the International Financial Centre Vancouver came under some new leadership.

Just so you understand mo re precisely what the In- ternational Financial Centre Vancouver is, it's a public- private partnership design ed to promote the excep- tional advantages that the city of Vancouver and the province of British Columbia have to offer as a location for investment and expansion in the financial services sector. It is only one of two Canadian cities so desig- nated. Calgary? Tough luck. Toronto? I'm sorry. You got left out. [1520] Companies that qualify under the international financial business legislation are eligible to receive a 100 percent provincial corporate income tax refund.

Specialists employed by these firms — the individuals, the workers, the management — can also receive up to a 100 percent provincial personal income tax refund. Not only does the business operate with many tax ad- vantages — I think to say it's tax-free is an exaggera- tion, but many significant tax advantages, nonetheless — so do the people doing the business. This is a nice business, at least in the first two years of employment. That's what was set up, and the companies that located here of course have tremendous advantages in terms of lifestyle, infrastructure, educated workforce and so on.

The new chairman of the IFCVancouver described this fresh start for the IFCVancouver as follows. Ron L. Bozzer, senior partner of Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, said in the annual report: "This fresh start for the IFCVancouver provided an opportunity to press the provincial government for spe- cific changes to the legislat ion governing International Financial Centre offices which would enable Vancouver to better compete with many other prominent financial centres around the world.

In this regard we have worked closely with the provincial Ministries of Finance and Competition, Science and Enterprise in Victoria to con- sider the effect of the proposed changes."

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 8857 He goes on to say nice things about the member for West Vancouver–Capilano and the member for Vancouver-Burrard, which modesty prevents me from quoting. Let me go on to the president's report — Robert A. Fairweather, president of the International Financial Centre Vancouver. "My first six months as president of the IFCVancouver have been hectic." He has been dealing with a lot of people, especially officials and politicians in Victoria.

He pays a lot of tribute, and he also acknowledges the assistance in proposed changes to legislation to become mo re competitive with Mont- real from the Investment Dealers Association, the Canadian Manufacturers an d Exporters Association, and others. He pays particular credit to the former Minister of Competition, Science and Enterprise, without whose strong leadership — and I don't think this has really been acknowledged adequately in this House — the new IFC legislation would not have oc- curred.

The Minister of Competition, Science and Enter- prise of the day deserves a good deal of credit for wres- tling through some imaginative changes, of course ably assisted by his deputy minister, who took on this as- signment with a gusto. A lot of people, at the end of the day, were involved in this reformatting of some legisla- tion — which in truth we have not yet seen, but it has been described — to change the rules. Finally, let's consider what Lynn Reston, the senior vice-president of finance of Canaccord Capital had to say about it, again drawing from the 2003 annual re- port, as I have been doing.

It says here: "Canaccord Capital…. With approximately 1,200 employees in 26 offices worldwide" — they've come a long way, Peter Rabbit — "they offer a full range of in- vestment banking, fixed income, research, institutional sales, international trading, insurance and estate plan- ning, products and services." How's that for a plug? "One of the earliest and largest supporters of the IFCVancouver, registering as a core member in 1989, Canaccord now has 22 staff members registered as eligi- ble employees or specialists" — under the act, the previ- ous act of course.

"This broad partnership has helped them develop the most extensive U.S. trading desk opera- tion of any Canadian investment firm in business today." Of course, with pending ch anges in the act, they're looking forward to aggressive expansion, it would ap- pear. What, again, do these international financial centres actually do? A whole range of things limited only by the imagination, to some degree, of the financial insti- tution's leadership. An easy one is fund management. A large pension fund perhaps legally domiciled in Hong Kong could be managed out of Vancouver with this tax-favoured status.

Film distribution companies, we are told, will be included in the new IFC legislation, so we could dis- tribute films worldwide — films made here in British Columbia, we hope — on this tax-favoured basis. Back offices can be set up in Vancouver to do all of the ac- counting and computerized recordkeeping that, say, a mutual fund requires — or a bank or a trust company offshore. [1525] The new IFC legislation will allow one-sided for- eign exchange transactions. Someone will have to explain what that means to me.

We are also told, for example, that a couple of our major forestry compa- nies, which have set up su bsidiaries in other Cana- dian provinces because of the restrictions under B.C. l e g i s l a t i o n , m i g h t b e l u r e d b a c k h o m e w i t h t h i s n e w legislation. Why should we even enco urage this stuff? It's hardly the traditional resource business that has been in the past the backbone of British Columbia. I would suggest to you that financial institution activity is a very desirable form of econ omic activity. The pay is good; it is non-polluting; the workplace is dry.

And as they say, there is no heavy lifting. I think it's the sort of white-collar job in the service economy that increas- ingly characterizes modern economies, and when it leaves town we miss it. We miss it in my riding. We miss it in Vancouver and in all of British Columbia. The new legislation will make us more competitive with similar tax-favoured domiciles in places that we in British Columbia deal with regularly, commercially, such as Singapore and Hong Kong, which have huge financial centres in their own right, usually on extraor- dinarily favourable tax terms.

This will make us much more competitive with those entities — not to mention with our friends, of course, in Quebec. Another advantage of the new legislation will be that it has been extended not just to Vancouver, which is the geographic boundary, you might say, of activities under the federal side of the legislation…. You appre- ciate that there is both fe deral and provincial legisla- tion acting in tandem here.

But on the provincial side, as we have been told, the proposal is to extend the ad- vantages to the heartland, so for the first time one might imagine a wood products trading operation based in Terrace taking advantage of these favourable tax environments — or in Prince George or in Quesnel or in Nelson or any other place in the heartlands. It need not be on Howe Street. That is the point. At a dinner the other night, where some of us speculated about the implications of the new legisla- tion, the question was raised: well, how do you define Vancouver?

The head of one of our major financial houses said: "That is a very good question." With a bit of imagination, I could see the wheels going round in his brain — that maybe almost any transaction could be routed through Vancouver if you set your mind to it, even though the people might be somewhere else. There is another aspect to this new legislation that is worth mentioning in passi ng, although it is specula- tive at this point and far too preliminary to embrace with any certainty. I refer to the possibility of changes in the B.C. Securities Act.

I think, as is well known, there has been extensive cons ultation. The B.C. Securi- ties Commission has been contemplating changes in the B.C. Securities Act that wou ld really m ove from a rules-based to a principles-based basis for regulation.

8858 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 It's too bad what's happened to securities trading in Vancouver. Some people still think we have something called the Vancouver Stock Exchange. They say: "Those rascals down at the VSE — they're at it again." Well, you know, I've got news for them. The VSE was shut d o w n a l o n g t i m e a g o . I t w e n t t o C a l g a r y . C a l g a r y couldn't hang on to it. It migrated somehow to To- ronto. Those rascals in the east always seem to come out on top. Toronto is, fran kly, hanging on by the fin- gernails.

Whether it will move down to New York or to some computer based in who-knows-where — Mid- land, Texas, perhaps — isn't clear.

The location of trading ac tivity has been shifting and, frankly, shifting to the disadvantage of Vancou- ver, which has and continues to maintain a tradition of entrepreneurial finance, risk capital, angel financing, junior company mine explorat ion finance, etc., that is of landmark status in the world. [1530] I t ' s h a r d t o b e l i e v e t h a t i n f a c t V a n c o u v e r , d e s p i t e the absence of a trading floor, continues to be one of the world's centres for entrepreneurial mine finance, just to cite one example.

Of course, with high-tech and biotech software companies popping up here and there and so on, we see a whole new spectrum of young, emerging companies taking advantage of the entrepre- neurial finance tradition of Vancouver. We have a history here of excellence in this field, but we lost the trading side of it. What is intriguing — and without mentioning too many names — I thought, for me, is that a very interesting and educational din- ner party, with representatives of a couple of the larger investment houses in Vancou ver ,was held here about a week ago.

The Investment Dealers Association repre- sentatives from Toronto, who were in town. John Howard — an eminent attorney retired and living in Sooke, the father of the

Canada Business Corporations Act, former general counsel to MacMillan Bloedel and a director of the IDA — discussed the possible impact of the new IFC legislation and speculated how it might interplay with proposed changes and redrafting and, in fact, a brand-new B.C. Securities Act. This could be the opportunity to restore Vancouver as a major financial centre not just in Canada, not just in North America but worldwide. There is opportunity here that I think we have to explore very carefully.

To wrap up, the internatio nal financial centre legisla- tion that is proposed is certainly in keeping with the announcement of the Lieutenant-Governor — bringing out the best in our economy, which I think all of us en- dorse heartily. I would only leave this topic on one note, and that is to say we can pass these laws here in Victoria. I'm afraid as laid-back British Columbians, we some- times, particularly here in the Legislature, say: "Well, we've done our job. Over to you folks. Make something of it." It is what I call the Kevin Costner syndrome — the field of dreams. Build it, and they will come.

In the twenty-first century you can build it, but they don't nec- essarily come. You've got to get out and sell it. This perhaps has been something we have not paid enough attention to. We are going to have to work closely as legislators. Hopefully, as the government I would urge them, as people in the financial community in Vancouver and the other people in the community — municipal and elsewhere — to really sell this con- cept. It's tricky. It needs explaining.

We need to get on the road and explain it, but I think it's another dimen- sion of the tremendous acceleration of the rebirth of the British Columbia economy that the B.C. Liberal gov- ernment is fostering, and I commend them for that. R. Stewart: It's a great pleasure to follow my es- teemed and learned colleague from West Vancouver– Capilano. His experiences of a life of business, a life of finance and other aspects of business I think are in- valuable to the work we're doing here in the Legisla- ture, and I applaud him for the work that he does for this Legislature and for the province.

I applaud all my colleagues for the tremendous amount of effort that has gone into the last two and a h a l f y e a r s a s w e h a v e s o u g h t t o t u r n t h i s p r o v i n c e around from a position of having enormous deficits, an inability to create jobs, an inability to house its people and an inability to afford the important social pro- grams that I think all of us value tremendously. [1535] One of the aspects of the work that we have to do in getting this province back on its feet is the role of hous- ing in improving our economy, in making certain that our families are in the best position they can be to suc- ceed.

I believe very strongly that housing is one of the most important things we can do. The throne speech touched on aspects of housing in a way, I think, that speaks to the role we have in trying to move the prov- ince forward in the coming years. Housing has seen a tremendous growth in the last two and a half years. For example, in 2003 we saw a 21 percent jump in housing star ts. This year looks better again. The national housin g Economic Research Coun- cil, of which I used to be chair, actually is now pointing to British Columbia as being perhaps the brightest market for the creation of housing in the country.

It hasn't always been that way. I look to some of the his- tory of our housing market over the past decade, and I regret some of the ways in which governments inter- fered with the housing market, in which governments actually in many cases destroyed the housing market in British Columbia. That doesn't just mean destroying the businesses and putting people out of work. It means making it almost impossible in many markets for families to find appropriate housing.

We saw housing starts fall from about 38,000 a year in the early days of the previous government's first mandate to less than 15,000 a year in the dying days of their mandate. In many ways it was exactly the same as the way they treated the economy — the way in which the economy reacted to the business policies and the economic policies of a government that didn't under- stand economics, which didn't understand the impor- tance of job creation and business confidence and con- sumer confidence in ensuri ng that the economy was strong.

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 8859 I met a few weeks ago wi th a group called the Tri- Cities housing coalition. This group is largely made up of concerned citizens and church groups and other community interests trying to lobby for improved ac- cess to what they call affordable housing. Everyone understands what we think we mean by affordable housing, but all too often what we really mean is hous- ing that isn't actually affordable and must be subsi- dized in order to make it affordable for the market that they're aiming the housing at.

We had a long discus- sion, and I think we agreed on a great many aspects of the concerns that I have and the concerns that they have over the housing market in British Columbia, particularly in the Tri-Cities area. We know that governments have a tremendous role to play in either allowing housing to be built or in sti- fling the construction of housing. We know that in the past decade we've seen almost no rental housing, al- most no purpose-built rent al housing constructed in t h e p r o v i n c e .

T h e r e s u l t o f t h a t i s t h a t w e h a v e v e r y low vacancy rates and very high rents in many com- munities. In my community I actually visited, about five weeks ago, a family — a single mother and four chil- dren — who lived in absolutely decrepit conditions in rental housing that was far too expensive and was completely inadequate and unsafe in many ways. I looked with great concern at the fact that her situation was unavoidable. Her situation in the environment we inherited is unavoidable because she can't even com- plain about her housing because she'll lose it.

We could actually have her housing shut down, and there is nothing for her to move to with her four children. That is the predictable result of a lack of focus on the devel- opment of housing and the lack of focus on making sure that the housing market functions like other mar- kets. In British Columbia for the past decade the housing market has been made to be almost dysfunctional. It is almost impossible to find a pro forma that makes rental housing construction viable.

You couldn't borrow money to build rental housing in British Columbia be- cause high land costs combined with some federal tax policies and a whole bunch of municipal and other regulations that pile on make it so that rental housing doesn't work. [1540] If we move forward in the spirit of the throne speech to try to ensure that every family has a bright future, we have to make certain that we can house them as well as possible, that the market is functioning as well as possible so that we will end up with higher vacancy rates and better ability for the development community — both profit and not-for-profit — to build rental housing and for-owne rship housing that is af- fordable to the markets that they're aiming them at, particularly at the low end of the economic situation.

I applaud the Tri-Cities housing coalition for focus- ing their interests and their attention on the issue of housing. I look forward to a greater dialogue with groups like that and with municipal governments, the provincial government and the federal government to make certain we can get governments out of the way and unfetter the market to some degree as it tries to build housing. That's the mark et that consists of both for-profit developers and not-for-profit societies, which tell us exactly the same thin g.

There are incredible im- pediments to building financially viable market hous- ing and non-market housing that don't come with some enormous subsidy from government. Yet in many other communities, it isn't an issue at all. We can blame it all on high land costs, but in the end, high land costs are on ly one of the many impedi- ments we face in the housing market.

I think we have to focus on a great many of the other impediments, as well, to make certain that as much as possible, we've removed the barriers existing in our market to make certain that people can be ho used as well as possible and to really focus on achieving results in that regard. Achieving results is what we focus on in everything that government is trying to do. That's what we're fo- cusing on in our education system, for example — fo- cusing all the dollars we spend on education on achiev- ing results. We spend a tremendous amount on educa- tion.

We often hear, of course, that we've cut education funding. That's not true, but we hear it. In fact, we hear it sometimes from people who ought to know better, and I hear it from some people who know they're not telling the truth. They know they're not telling the truth about education, because we've added money to edu- cation every year in spite of declining enrolments. We know it would be great if we could add more money to education. It would be great if we could add more money to almost everything we do as a govern- ment.

I get e-mail from across the province, and I have yet to receive a piece of e-mail that says we should spend less money on this particular social program or this particular program of government. All the e-mail suggests that for a particular element of government, we're not spending enough money. I understand that, but let's understand, as well, that we spend more money on education, K-to-12, per stu- dent than almost any jurisdiction in North America. We spend a tremendous amount on education, and we want to make sure we're focusing those dollars on the classroom, on achieving results for our students.

I think that's really, really important. It's the same thing with health. Our health care sys- tem is extremely expensive, extremely important, and we spend more on it per capita than almost any public jurisdiction in North America. We don't spend enough, we'll be told. Of course, it would be great if we could add more money to health care, but let's be realistic. Over the past 15 years we haven't seen balanced budg- ets. We have seen an ever -increasing amount spent on education and on health care, to the point where we are today.

For the last 15 years we were unable as a province to sustainably balance our budget. For the last 25 years the budget has been balanced only five times, and two of those times were based on unusual economic cir- cumstances that permitted the budget to appear bal-

8860 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 anced. We could throw more money at health care, yet I've heard from health care practitioners who say more money isn't what is needed. We really have to refocus the way health care is delivered, and that's what this province has done. We've focused on creating outstanding centres of excellence in any number of forms of health care, out- standing centres of excellenc e like the leukemia centre in Vancouver Hospital.

I had the occasion to visit a young patient in the leukemia treatment centre on the top floor of the Jim Pattison building in Vancouver Hospital. This young patient is housed in a room very close to a member of this House who is also in that ward, and I saw the outstanding service that's pro- vided in that hospital for leukemia patients. [1545] I k n o w t h a t K a r i n e i s i n v e r y g o o d h a n d s i n t h a t hospital, and I know other patients also benefit greatly from the tremendous quality of service by the profes- sionals in Vancouver Hospital and in hospitals across the province.

In Eagle Ridge Hospital in Port Moody, we have new services that are now being introduced. We have eliminated film on X-rays and medical imag- ing, for example. It is now almost all electronic, and that allows hospital practitioners to share the X-rays — essentially, to allow the X-ray to be viewed over at Royal Columbian by the specialist, who is going to either take the patient on at Royal Columbian or rec- ommend some other form of treatment.

It allows for cost savings in the long run, but it also makes health care tremendously better in th at one small area, in that one small form of health care — medical imaging. We've got new operating rooms at Eagle Ridge Hospital that will benefit our community and commu- nities around the health au thority. I had the opportu- nity on the weekend to to ur the emergency room at Eagle Ridge Hospital with the head of the emergency room, Dr. Peter MacDonald.

We saw the challenges that that hospital's emergency ward and many other hospitals' emergency wards are facing and have faced for the last number of years, perhaps ten years, in adapting to the challenges sometimes created by gov- ernment policy. We have had, over the last few years, a real chal- lenge with long-term care beds. As a result, we have many patients admitted to hospital and lying in acute care beds, who don't need to be there and would be better off in some other form of health care.

But we haven't had that, and our government is committed to creating those health care spaces outside of acute care hospitals so that the acute care beds can be freed up for the patients I saw in Eagle Ridge emergency ward — patients who had been admitted to hospital already but were still in the emergency ward. This isn't new, of course. I remember that I was once admitted to a hospital, one I'll leave nameless. This was about five years ag o, and I stayed the entire stay in the emergency ward . The ambulance actually stayed out in the parking lot, because I was still on the ambulance bed.

It was trem endously expensive. The last government's response was that there weren't enough beds in emergency wards, when in fact the d o c t o r t o l d m e i t w a s n ' t a b o u t t h e n u m b e r o f b e d s i n emergency wards but that they were all filled with patients that should be in acute care.

So I said: "Well, there aren't enough acute care beds." He said: "Oh, there are lots of acute care beds, but they're filled with patients that should be in long-term care." We see this shortage of long-term care beds result- ing in a shortage of parking spaces in the parking lot for ambulances waiting to get their ambulance stretch- ers back. That's an unreason able situation that has ex- isted for ten years, and we're going to fix that. I thanked Dr. Peter MacDonald for raising the issues he raised with me.

I know we're going to be moving for- ward on a number of those issues, trying to ease the challenges we inherited in a health care system that I believe can again become the best in the country. Another thing we're achieving — w e p r o m i s e d t o do it, and it's going to be outstanding — is the Citizens' Assembly. The Citizens' Assembly is working very hard and moving forward in this province to do some- thing no one has ever done before. We have more than 100 people from across this province that are sitting down, weekend after weekend, and studying electoral systems.

As interesting as that sounds, I want to ap- plaud them for their dedication, because it undoubt- edly is going to be arduous. They are going to have some important and heated discussions, and the results are vital to future generations in this province. I believe so. I had the opportunity to speak to a grade 5 class at Our Lady of Fatima Catholic elementary school in Co- quitlam. That was about eigh t weeks ago, I think. This group of grade 5s had a passionate and keen interest in the way government works, but nothing raised their interest more than when I pu t this question to them.

I asked them to pretend they were the Citizens' Assem- bly and that essentially they were going to elect their class president or a provinci al…. They were going to design an electoral system , and these children were passionately interested in this. The most important thing they wanted to know was: "How does this affect my future? Will this actually change the way I will live in my future?" I think it will. [1550] Actually, tomorrow, I think, I'm going to see my daughter's grade 2 class at Mundy Road Elementary.

We probably won't have the same high-level passion- ate discussion about the Citi zens' Assembly and elec- toral reform. Interjection. R. Stewart: We might be surprised indeed. I look forward to that discussion. Ultimately, everything we're doing is aimed at that one thing — our youth. Everything we're doing is trying to make certain that our youth have a better future, that the next generation comes along with more stability, with a better sense of a bright future that will meet their needs and those of their own children.

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 8861 P a r t o f t h a t b r i g h t f u t u r e i s t h e O l y m p i c s . W e s e

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	h0226pm-18
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	h0226pm 18
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	e6e5cfaf514d5d441c0ac9ef24b417256c0b21a8

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