Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Statements by Ministers — 11 May 2004 (45th General Assembly, 1st Session)
2004-05-11
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
May 11, 2004 HOUSE OF ASSEMLBY
PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 28
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we have statements by the following members:
the Member for Trinity-Bay de Verde; the Member for Grand Bank; the Member for
Mount Pearl; the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans; the Member for St. John's
North; and the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
The hon. the Member for Trinity-Bay de Verde.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, on April 29, 2004, I attended the First Annual Tourism Choice
Awards at Brown's Restaurant in Whiteway. Tourists from as far away as Hawaii
filled out a ballot in the Baccalieu Trail Tourism Guide to vote on the winners,
and these winners were: The number one hotel/motel was Fong's Restaurant in
Carbonear. The number one Bed and Breakfast, there was a tie, On The Lake B
& B in Blaketown, and Blueberry Hill B & B in Cavendish. The number one
family restaurant was the host, Brown's Restaurant in Whiteway. The number one
takeout was Pitcher's Takeout in New Harbour. The number one museum to visit
was the Winterton Boat Building and Community Museum. The number one town to
visit was Bay Roberts. The number one RV Park was the Mountain View RV Park Ltd.
in Clarke's Beach. The number one craft shop, again a tie, Emily's Craft and
Coffee Shop in Cupids, and the Maple Ridge Folk Arts Studio in Whiteway. The
number one place to shop was Wescals in Bay Roberts.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon members to join me in congratulating these winners
throughout the Baccalieu Trail and we wish them every success this coming
summer.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to express sincere thanks to the
Lions Clubs International Foundation for committing $100,000 to the Burin
Peninsula Health Care Centre's Direct Digital Radiography Unit. This unit will
cost $700,000 and this grant is the maximum offered to any group under the
Standard Grant Program of LCIF.
The Standard Grant Program helps local Lions Clubs to help fund projects that
are too big to fund at the local level. Region G Lions Clubs on the Burin
Peninsula have committed $100,000 to this project. To date they have raised
$35,000, with other initiatives in place to reach their goal of $100,000.
Mr. Speaker, the previous government committed $350,000 to cover 50 per cent
of the total cost. The Burin Peninsula Health Care Foundation undertook to raise
the other 50 per cent, and with the support from the Lions Clubs that task has
been made that much easier.
A digital radiography unit provides enhanced clarity of X-ray images. Digital
technology allows for viewing images within five seconds and allows these images
to be provided electronically to other health care facilities with the same
technology. Patients in wheelchairs can be treated more easily, while seriously
injured patients can be accommodated with a special trauma table.
Mr. Speaker, it is so important for people who live in the rural parts of
Newfoundland and Labrador to have access to vital pieces of medical equipment.
Some are isolated from the major centres because of geography but, more often
than not, bad weather plays a part. This is certainly the case on the Burin
Peninsula and explains the need for a Cat Scan as well.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to show their appreciation to
Lions Clubs throughout the Province for their continued dedication and
commitment to our communities and our people.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Mount Pearl.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. DENINE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Today, Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the students of Mount Pearl
Senior High and Mount Pearl Intermediate on their recent musical production, Etcetera
18 .
The show opened on Tuesday, May 4, and ran through to May 8, at the Mount
Pearl Glacier. There were approximately 5,000 family, friends and visitors who
came to this wonderful celebration of Mount Pearl's youth.
The cast consists of approximately 175 students and they have spent endless
hours of practice throughout the year, and this certainly shows, as they have
had another successful musical show.
Mr. Speaker, there are three people who give freely of their time to create
such a production. They are: Carl Goulding, Musical and Choral Director; Jackie
Goulding, Production Manager; and Robert Power, Stage Manager.
Of course, Mr. Speaker, I cannot forget to mention the parent volunteers who
help out during the year, as their help is very valuable.
Also, Mr. Speaker, I would like to mention some of the places where the Mount
Pearl Show Choir have performed: Disney World, the New Year 2000 Celebrations,
and they have travelled across the Province during the Cabot 500 Celebrations.
Mr. Speaker, I am very proud of the energy and enthusiasm shown by these
young people and I wish them all the best in the future.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to honour and congratulate a well-known citizen of
Grand Falls-Windsor who has been presented with a prestigious award for his
professional accomplishments.
Mr. Gerald Thompson, manager of Dicks & Company in Grand Falls-Windsor,
has been distinguished with the "Premier Dealer Award of Excellence"
from the Global Group, Canada's largest office furniture manufacturer and the
fifth largest company of its kind in the world. No other dealer in Newfoundland
and Labrador has ever been presented with this award, which is given to a
carefully selected group of dealers who show outstanding sales and service
commitment to the Global group.
Mr. Speaker, through his knowledgeable, courteous, and indeed friendly sales
touch, Gerald has gained for himself the reputation of excellence in his field.
I ask all members of this hon. House to join me in congratulating Mr. Gerald
Thompson of Grand Falls-Windsor on this significant recognition from the Global
Group.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RIDGLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to offer my congratulations to Melanie Hoskins, a grade six
student at Larkhall Academy, who had one of the two winning exhibits at the
eighth Annual Avalon Region Historica Fair that took place in St. John's on
Saturday past. The Historica Fair is an opportunity for students from Grades 4
to 9 to showcase any heritage projects ranging from family history to historical
events or perhaps famous people.
Melanie's exhibit focused on ghost stories from old St. John's and, in
order to prepare for the fair, she had already done the walking tours,
particularly the tour that recounts some of the more unusual, eerie, tales from
our past. Of course, she took the time to read some of the ghost stories from
our local authors.
Melanie will now join a small group of students who will represent
Newfoundland and Labrador at the National Historica Fair in Montreal in July.
I ask all members of the House to join me in congratulating Melanie Hoskins
for her industriousness, her creativity, and for her success in this fair.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to recognize a very intelligent and enthusiastic student from
Carbonear Collegiate in my district.
Mr. Speaker, Ms Erin Dwyer, a Level One student in Carbonear has
distinguished herself for her excellence in the field of mathematics.
Mr. Speaker, recently over 84,000 Level One students from all across Canada
wrote the Cayley National Mathematics Test which is sponsored by this same
institution. From this group, sixty of the top-achieving students have been
invited to attend this prestigious event which will be held from June 13-19.
Mr. Speaker, I am very proud to say that Erin will be one of these sixty from
all over Canada to attend this event.
Erin has shown that hard work and dedication to academics, even at a young
age, can lead to many opportunities on a national scale, and possibly greater
career opportunities into the future.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all Members of this hon. House to join me in
congratulating Ms Erin Dwyer of Carbonear Collegiate on her recent scholastic
achievement, and wish her the best of luck representing this Province at the
annual mathematics seminar.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Before we proceed to Statements by Ministers I would like to
recognize in the gallery one of Newfoundland and Labrador's longest serving
mayors, the Mayor of Grand Falls-Windsor, Mayor Walwin Blackmore, and welcome
him to the House.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise this afternoon to advise this hon. House that May 9-15 has been
designated as National Police Week.
During Police Week, both the RNC and the RCMP in this Province will
coordinate activities and displays in communities, schools and through a public
service campaign promoting the concept of police and community working together
to enhance public safety and security.
Mr. Speaker, the theme for Police Week is: Your Community, Your Police and
You. Activities planned for this week have been organized to encourage
partnerships to build safer communities, and to provide information encouraging
the concept that working together is an investment in safety. In recognition of
International Peace Officer Memorial Day, a memorial service has been scheduled
for Thursday, May 13 at the Seventh Day Adventist Church in St. John's.
Police Week reflects the community-based approach being followed by police
agencies across the country, and aims to improve partnerships between policing
services and the communities they serve. These partnerships are built through
the integration of policing services, individuals and organizations which all
share responsibility for the well-being of the community.
Mr. Speaker, in this Province, through the RNC and the RCMP, we have
approximately 725 police officers who work hard each and every day to protect
communities and the families who live there. I would like to take this
opportunity to recognize police officers across the Province for their
dedication and commitment to the enhancement of public safety and security.
Police Week is a great opportunity to acknowledge our police forces for their
active community involvement, both on and off the job.
Mr. Speaker, we are proud of the work being done by the RNC and RCMP and
support the efforts of our police officers. I encourage awareness and
participation in Police Week activities, and continued support of police
officers across the Province.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is indeed a pleasure to stand and recognize the policewomen and policemen
of our Province of the RNC and RCMP on this the National Police Week. Not only
to the police officers themselves, but all the special agencies who support them
in what they do, as well as the people who work with them, the civilian workers
who work with these police forces and make them be as productive and efficient
as they are. They are indeed an essential part of our communities and we could
not exist properly as communities without them.
I always say the firemen are the ultimate volunteers, because they do so and
do so freely. They are prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice without
compensation, but the police officers of our communities are certainly a close
second, not withstanding that they choose to do that as a job. I point out that
not only are they important to our communities from a public safety perspective
and protection of our properties, but they also contribute immensely to the
communities in many other ways. They give of their time freely in many of these
agencies, to crime prevention associations, for example, which they do
voluntarily. As well as school programs, such as the DARE program, a thing that
has been very effective in this Province, and other community groups. I am sure
anyone here in this House or around the Province who knows of an RNC or RCMP
officer in their community -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has expired.
By leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Anyone here who has experienced a police officer living in their community
has had to witness the fact that they always play a large role in community
events, such as sports, recreational programs and community organizations of
development, and Chambers of Commerce, et cetera.
Again, it is a great opportunity and they do indeed deserve to be praised, to
be recognized and thanked.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We, too, would like to acknowledge the tremendous work done by the RNC and
RCMP in our Province providing protection for all of us.
I would like to relate, Mr. Speaker, if I may, just last October, Halloween
night, I was privileged to accompany the RNC officers on the Pumpkin Patrol. It
was amazing to see the interaction between the RNC officers and the young people
of Labrador West. I think it bodes well for the RNC that they can create that
kind of interaction with the young people so that young people know they can
approach police officers without fear (inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has expired.
Does the member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. COLLINS: - much in the way that we used to do when we were growing
up. In Labrador West, where we are policed by the RNC, I have to give credit to
Inspector Garland in particular, and Officer Karen Hemmings, who operates within
the community and is involved with almost all of the groups that are operating
within the community.
In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would just like to point out and say to the RNC
that during the last difficult month, during the strike, the professionalism and
the manner in which they acted, in very difficult times, I think says a lot
about the professionalism that they bring to the police in our Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
My questions today are for the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and
Employment, and the Status of Women.
I have to say that our sources of yesterday, I guess, came to be very
correct, only one little error. I predicted that there would be a Ministerial
Statement but that changed, Mr. Speaker, at 1:26 p.m. It went out as a news
release four minutes before this House opened.
Mr. Speaker, there were very serious backlogs in the department prior to the
month long strike which this right-wing Conservative government subjected the
people of this Province to. I ask the minister: Will she confirm in this House
today, given the fact that twenty offices were slashed from the system, will
additional FAO officers and other staff be hired to take care of the serious
backlog, or will today's cuts make an already bad situation even worse?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and
Employment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I have been made aware over the months about some
of the inefficiencies with offices and the backlog of work. What this change
should do today is to consolidate offices to put more workers at sites to help
make a more equitable distribution of cases throughout the Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BUTLER: It is amazing, Mr. Speaker, the minister stood here in this
hon. House before and told me that the backlog had been taken care of. Now, Mr.
Speaker, I guess it is further evidence of the heartless right-wing Conservative
government that we have in power.
Mr. Speaker, I am not sure if the minister actually really knows the
seriousness of this problem. People are having to wait long periods of time to
get health costs reimbursed, and many are simply going without medical care. I
ask the minister: Why should the poorest people of the Province be expected to
suffer because you and your government cannot get your act together?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and
Employment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, our department, this department, has dealt with
the poorest of poor for many years, and we will continue to do so. We
acknowledge that many people have situations that need to be addressed. We will
continue to work with these people and provide the services. We should be able,
with our new computerized pay system, to have a more equitable distribution of
work throughout the Province.
Mr. Speaker, we have always dealt with the people who need services. There is
no reduction of services to our clients by these moves today. The same level of
service that clients historically have had will remain following this decision.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, I have to say to the minister, they do not have
a heart on that side. I admit, she said they are dealing with the poorest of the
poor, but can you tell me that they are worried about the poor people of this
Province if someone has to drive from Harbour Breton, close to three hours, to
Stephenville, for service? Mr. Speaker, that is hardly worth responding to.
Mr. Speaker, the people of this Province and the staff of HRLE finally know
which offices are closing. We have a list of them. It came out a few minutes
ago. How much are you saving, I say to the minister, on the backs of the poor
people of this Province? Your statement, which was released, says twenty-eight
people would be laid off. According to my sources, that could go as high as
thirty-eight to forty people who will be getting their pink slips from your
department, actual layoffs, and not through attrition, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and
Employment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I will confirm that there will be twenty-eight
layoffs as a result of the office closures. Twenty-two will be from our district
offices and six have been from our provincial office.
Mr. Speaker, I would further like to add that we had to respond to the shift
in demographics in this Province. We have an aging population. As well, with our
advanced technology, we should be able to process applications more efficiently.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, since 1997 the caseload of Human Resources, Labour
and Employment has decreased by approximately 8,500 cases. With this drop in
numbers, and the aging population, we have to have our services that will meet
the most needs.
Mr. Speaker, in addition to that, in 2003, approximately 50 per cent -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the minister now to complete her answer quickly.
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, we had approximately 1,800 new applicants last
year who were less than twenty-nine years of age. We need to move our services
into employment and career services so these people can move from income support
into the labour force.
Mr. Speaker, that point was made yesterday in this House when it was
identified that there is a skills deficit. It is incumbent upon us to move these
people off income support into the labour force.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions are for the Minister of Government Services.
I have received some alarming telephone calls from around the Province today,
Mr. Speaker. Can the minister inform the House how many weigh scale operators
and other public safety staff she has laid off this week, and is she intent on
privatizing these operations?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, I have had layoffs in my department today. There
has been ten laid off today and we are not privatizing the services.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, that is not the number that I have been
receiving but anyway, the truth will come out.
Mr. Speaker, can the minister tell the House if she has laid off all of the
staff at the weigh scales in Port aux Basques? Is she closing these weigh scales
permanently? Does she realize that thousands and thousands of tractor-trailers
arriving by ferry on a daily basis could travel almost halfway across this
Island before being weighed and inspected? Now, minister, where is the logic in
all of that?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, we will have three weigh scales permanently still
in operation: one at Goobies, one at Grand Falls-Windsor and another at Pynns
Brook. The vast majority of trucks that are travelling from Port aux Basques are
coming into the St. John's area.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS WHALEN: We also have portable weigh scales teams in place as well.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, I do not know if the minister realizes it or
not, but she has endangered every single person who travels our highways in this
Province; endangered every single person who travels.
Mr. Speaker, the minister has to come clean on all of these issues. She made
such an issue of being concerned about public safety when she shut down the
companies in her own district. She should realize how important these workers
are. She should be hiring more, not laying them off.
Minister, what impact on weigh scale operations will these cuts have? Will
the hours be reduced? Tell me that. How many more unsafe and overweight vehicles
will be allowed on our highways?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, the bulk of our inspections are done by our
inspectors. We have not laid off any inspectors and the inspections will be
retained. We do not compromise our highway safety.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, yesterday the government announced the
schedule for the Estimate
Committee stage of the Budget and we are anxious to get involved in that
detailed discussion in the committees because it is obvious that there will be
some amendments to the Budget. The salaries for these people who are laid off
today, 217 of them, are still listed in the salary details and I am sure
Minister of Finance will want to make the adjustments.
Mr. Speaker, with respect to these committees, Thursday evening the Estimate
Committee for the Premier's personal pet project, the new Department of
Business, is scheduled to take place. The normal practice, as you would know,
Mr. Speaker, is that the minister responsible for a department is expected to be
present and answer questions on behalf of the government.
I ask the Government House Leader: Will the Premier, who is responsible for
this department, the new Department of Business, be present for the committee
examination on Thursday evening? If not, can we reschedule some other time so
that the Premier can be here to answer detailed questions about his personal pet
project, the new Department of Business?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
When I was first elected an old MHA told me that you should never ask a
question in the House unless you know the answer to it. The Leader of the
Opposition knows full well the answer to the question he asked me today.
The Resource Estimates Committee is meeting Thursday night. The Department of
Business - which is not established, it is in its infancy - is part of that
committee process. I informed the Opposition House Leader yesterday that our
plan would be to proceed with that Estimate Committee on Thursday evening, and
either myself - this is what I informed the Opposition House Leader yesterday -
or the Minister of Finance would be there on Thursday evening to answer any and
all questions related to that department.
Since that time it has been confirmed that the Minister of Finance will
attend the Estimates Thursday evening. Along with the Minister of Finance will
be senior staff from Executive Council, so that the Resources Estimates
Committee can answer any questions they want.
It should also be clear, Mr. Speaker, and in
summary saying this, that the
Leader of the Opposition is not a member of any of the Estimates Committee
meetings. If he has any questions whatsoever on this department, or any other,
that there are more than ample opportunities through Question Period -
MR. SPEAKER: I ask the minister to finish his answer, quickly.
MR. E. BYRNE: - or otherwise to ask the Premier any questions that he
wishes on this particular and important department, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The Government House Leader makes my point for me perfectly, and I will
pursue it again with this additional question.
The purpose, as he knows and members here would know, of these committees is
to analyze each government departments budget and plan expenditures in detail,
and it has been practiced in the full fifteen years that I have here, other than
when an acting minister has shown up because the real minister is ill and cannot
be present.
The question is, since everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador knows that the
Premier himself personally has created this new Department of Business, and we
are convinced that he would want the opportunity to come to the committee and
explain to the people of the Province himself, personally, we are willing to
defer to another time to accommodate the Premier's schedule. I am sure, Mr.
Speaker - the question again is: Will the Government House Leader take us up on
our offer to accommodate the Premier's
schedule so that the Premier himself
can answer the questions about his own personal pet project, the new Department
of Business? Will he take us up on that offer so the Premier can have the
opportunity to explain to the people of the Province how wonderful this new
department is going to be?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The Leader of the Opposition is correct in as much as this, the Estimate
Committee is about discussing the estimates for any department. Now this
department is the smallest one in all government because it is not entirely
formed yet. It represents one page in a Budget book of about 300 to 400 pages.
Let me say this to him - let me say this to the question. Ministers who are
not available - I have been here eleven years and I have appeared before
Estimate Committee meetings where ministers, who were responsible for those
departments, were not here because they were not available. It did not mean that
the process did not proceed. It did not mean that it was cancelled or deferred.
It meant that the process went according to the plan that was outlined. It will
be no different now than it was when you were in government. The Estimates
Committee procedure will proceed on department business on Thursday night. The
Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board will be there. If the Leader
of the Opposition -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the Government House Leader to complete his answer now, quickly.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Amongst the shouts and yells of the members opposite, I will do my best to
complete my answer.
If the Resource Estimates Committee meetings, if they conclude Thursday night
- if the Leader of the Opposition, who is not part of that process but is
leading the political charge today - because that is all it can be described as.
If he has any questions about the Department of Business, this is the forum,
right here during Question Period, or any other piece of legislation related to
the Finance Bill, that the Leader of the Opposition can stand and ask the
Premier directly any question and I am sure he will be provided with the
answers, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Let me just ask one more time, Mr. Speaker. What I am saying is that I am
sure that the Premier - would the Government House Leader check with the Premier
himself to see whether or not he, as the Premier of the Province and the
minister responsible for a brand new initiative in the Blue Book that he is so
proud of, would like an opportunity to answer the questions, as the Premier of
the Province, himself, rather than have old Mini-Me try to the answer the
questions -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. GRIMES: - when he cannot even answer his own questions, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. GRIMES: Let me ask one more time -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Yesterday, I cautioned members about using expressions or words that can take
away from the integrity of members. I would ask all members if they would be
more selective in their wording so that we can proceed in a very normal
parliamentary manner.
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition, to finish his question.
MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
Again, it is quite point blank. Would the Government House Leader like to ask
the Premier himself, on our behalf, if he would like, as the Premier, to be
provided an opportunity, which we will accommodate?
Mr. Speaker, this morning - for the record - the Opposition parties, in
conjunction with the Government House Leader, rescheduled a meeting for one
department because officials were not available. We are offering to reschedule
from Thursday night, for an opportunity for the Premier.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member now to complete his question.
MR. GRIMES: Would he ask the Premier if he would like an opportunity to
tout himself, personally, the benefits of the news business department?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, again, I think this is more about theatrics today, but I will
try to answer it as honestly as I can. The long answer -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. E. BYRNE: I sat down and listened to the question. I would hope that
members would like to hear the answer. They may not agree with it, they may
agree with it, but I would like the opportunity to answer it, Mr. Speaker.
The long answer to the question is this: On Thursday night, the Minister of
Finance and President of Treasury Board will be here at the Resource Estimates
to answer questions with the Department of Business.
The short answer to the Leader of the Opposition's question, and running
the risk of being a one-man show myself: No, I do not want to consult with the
Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair notes that - I will not take any time from Question Period - these
last exchanges have been averaging about one minute and twenty seconds, one
minute and thirty seconds, on both sides the House. I ask members if they could
keep their questions shorter and also keep their answers shorter.
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We understand that the Premier does not like to spend much time in the
Legislature, and now his House Leader is saying he is not going to show up to
answer for his own new department.
Mr. Speaker, a totally different issue. On April 23, the Minister of
Education - without consultation with any of the stakeholders - announced the
appointment of the new Chairs and some members for the school board transition
teams in the Province. Several of these individuals, Mr. Speaker, have little or
no experience with the education system in our Province, but they do have very
well-recognized ties to the Progressive Conservative Party.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. GRIMES: I ask the minister, Mr. Speaker - you can tell from the
groans opposite that we are getting close to an issue that they do not like to
talk about - why has he, as the Minister of Education, made these blatant
political appointments to these transition boards and broken another election
promise when the Premier and the leader of that Party promised a new approach
that would eliminate political patronage appointments?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. Leader of the Opposition
for the question. I touched on this very topic yesterday. The vast majority of
those individuals who have been appointed to our new three interim school
boards, the Eastern Board, the Western Board and the Central Board, are
comprised of what are today duly elected school board members from the
representative boards that now comprise the boards - the vast majority - and I
am prepared, if the hon. Leader of the Opposition will allow me, I will address
the issue of the Chair, if that is permissible and if time will allow me.
The vast majority, Mr. Speaker - the vast majority - are from the duly
elected school boards and they are there for that reason.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I appreciate the acknowledgment that while the vast majority - maybe he is
admitting that several of them, several key ones, have no experience in
education, and he is nodding in approval of that, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs mentions the
name of June Alteen, who was elected by the people in District 3 - elected by
the people - and he does not seem to know the difference.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister of Education about Ms Nada
Borden in particular, Chair of the Transitional Committee for the Western School
District. She is a member of the Humber West Progressive Conservative
Association. She is President of the Humber-St. Barbe-Baie Verte Federal
Progressive Conservative Association. She was the Chief Financial Officer for
the Premier, himself, during the recent election. She has no experience in the
school board system at all. Can he explain why that person is not one of the
ones -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. member to complete his question.
MR. GRIMES: - that was a vast majority, the ones that have some
experience? How did she get the job? Is it just a reward for being such a
dedicated member of the Premier's own District Association?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The volunteer Chair of the Eastern School Board is Mr. Bruce Peckford, a
well-respected and well-regarded retired public servant and former deputy
minister. The volunteer Chair of the Central School Board is Chief Misel Joe of
Conne River, a spiritual and community leader, well known throughout all of
Newfoundland and Labrador. The volunteer Chair of the Western School Board is Ms
Nada Borden, and you have referenced her. She is a community leader, she has
been involved in Rotary, she has been involved with Junior Achievement and, yes,
Mr. Speaker, she has some political involvement.
I ask the hon. Leader of the Opposition, why is it, or how is it, that a
person who may have been involved politically should be deprived just because of
that? Do we totally disregard other volunteer activity?
Mr. Speaker, I am proud, as the Minister of Education, to recognize those
three individuals -
MR. SPEAKER: Order please!
I ask the minister now to complete his answer quickly.
MR. OTTENHEIMER: - and to thank them individually for their commitment to
volunteerism.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: This is not a plum appointment. They receive, actually,
zero for their commitment, and I thank them for it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We can see the arrogance of the government in terms of now, Mr. Speaker,
standing up and bragging about the fact that they have broken an election
promise, admitting that it is their political affiliation and connections that
have gotten them these appointments, and that they have no involvement with the
education system at all.
He mentioned Mr. Peckford. Maybe the minister might ask: Who was it - or was
it he personally? - who recommended people like Mr. Bruce Peckford, whose last
job was a policy adviser in the PC Opposition office, and he admits had no
involvement in the education system whatsoever, and is nothing other than a
blatant political appointment. Who was it who recommended this breaking of the
election promise to the government? Was it this minister?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, I stand here proudly today and support
wholeheartedly those three independent and voluntarily individuals,
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, with solid backgrounds in public service and
in a variety of areas.
I can assure the hon. members opposite, and I can assure the public of this
Province, that through their leadership, the transition that we are now
experiencing from the eleven school boards to the number five, will be a smooth
transition, and with confidence and optimism we will arrive at a smooth
transition come September 1, 2004.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Today, with the announcement of over 300 job loses, which probably represents
the tip of the iceberg in this Province, the cuts are devastating to the people
who are losing their jobs but also to the residents of our Province who require
their service.
My question is for the Minister of Government Services.
Details from the recent Budget are starting to become apparent. One issue of
concern is driver examiner locations that are being cut drastically. No longer
will they be available in areas such as Bonavista, Bay d'Espoir, Grand Bank,
Deer Lake, Stephenville, or Labrador West. Would the minister not agree that the
people of our Province are being treated unfairly simply because they live in
rural or remote areas?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, my department right now is looking at different
programs that we offer. I have not made the final decisions on the program
examiners yet.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I am totally surprised with the response from
the minister. We have Budget documents that clearly express that these services
are being cancelled. I want to say to the minister, the worse example is in my
district. The very worst example where, under the new system, you are going to
require people to drive 1,200 kilometres of gravel road, dirt road, the same
distance from St. John's to Deer Lake return, in order to do a driver exam and
get their licence.
Will the minister not agree that is totally ludicrous, and will she make
sure, when she is reviewing this, that people in Labrador West will not have to
drive 1,200 kilometres, or ask somebody to drive them - because, let's not
forget, they do not have a licence yet. They have to ask someone to drive them
1,200 kilometres. Will the minister commit that will not happen, that will not
take place, in the District of Labrador West?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, there will be some people who will have to drive
distances with the reviewing of the driver examiners, but -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair is asking for members to remain relatively quiet and silent while
the hon. the minister is attempting to make the response for the government.
The hon. the minister.
MS WHALEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to say to the hon. member that we are looking at
the distance, and the decisions have not been finalized. There have been other
factors that we have to consider. Once they are finalized, I will announce in
this House the finding. I will keep that in mind, hon. member.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The Budget documents that I am referring to, and the information that we have
been provided with, came from the Clerk of the Executive Council. We take that
to be actual fact. So, while I appreciate the minister's answer to the
previous question, I want to remind her that some people, as she said, may have
to drive distances, but would the minister not agree that 1,200 kilometres, that
involves an overnight stay, is a bit unreasonable and will not happen?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, as I stated, there are some factors that have to
still be finalized. I will take under advisement what the hon. member has said,
and I will notify this House when the decisions are made.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions are for the Minister of Education, and they concern his
commitment to education and his word as a individual.
Mr. Speaker, just prior to the election last fall, the minister and some of
his colleagues met with the Newfoundland and Labrador School Boards Association
and, when asked whether or not the Tory government would be reducing the number
of school boards, the minister said: No, we certainly would not be reducing the
number of school boards.
In January, he told reporters on the West Coast that he would not be
amalgamating school boards. In fact, Mr. Speaker, just one week prior to this
year's Budget coming down, the minister met with the Gander school board and
informed the individual there that there would be no reduction in the number of
school boards. I ask the minister: Was he deliberately misleading these
individuals or was he like other members of his Cabinet, left out of the loop in
the pre-Budget discussions?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The hon. member who just asked the question, a former Minister of Education,
he knows the budgetary process, he knows what is involved, he knows what
discussions and deliberations are taken -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: - he knows the procedure, I say, Mr. Speaker, and he
know full well that as part of that budgetary process there are issues that are
debated, there are issues that are discussed, there are deliberations and then
there are decisions taken. At that particular time, decisions are taken which
represent what is in the overall best interest of the public, keeping in mind,
Mr. Speaker, the fiscal reality in which we live. It was upon that basis, I say,
Mr. Speaker, that a decision was made to reduce the number of school boards in
this Province from eleven to five. It is a decision, I might add, that is being
well-received by many partners in education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, tomorrow -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the minister now to complete his answer.
MR. OTTENHEIMER: We have had constant discussions with our directors and
school board representatives, Mr. Speaker, and on tomorrow's date I am meeting
with the directors and the chairs of the new Central Newfoundland school board
to discuss that very issue.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yes, indeed I do know the budget process, but I would not be in Gander a week
before the Budget came down giving a commitment that there would be no cuts. I
would at least have the decency to say all of that would be known in a week from
now. Not like you did and committed that they would not be cut one week before
the Budget came down.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, the minister is on record as saying that by
reducing the number of boards from eleven to six he will save between $6 million
and $7 million. Mr. Speaker, now that he has botched this whole process and he
is leaving six satellite boards around the Province, can he tell us how much he,
in fact, is going to save? Will those savings be reinvested into the education
and the youth of this Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, there is no botching of the process. We have identified
headquarters throughout Newfoundland and Labrador, and we have recognized and
identified important and prominent regional educational centres. These centres
will house our itinerant teachers. They will have an administrator. In addition
to that, there will be consultants and program advisors. They will maintain the
continuation of supervision and maintenance. I say to the hon. member opposite,
there is no botching here. There is a well-planned method to deal with the
reform of education in this Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: A plan, Mr. Speaker, that was began some six or seven
years ago by the Leader of the Opposition, as then Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Given the number of interruptions that the Chair had to make, the Chair will
allow one more question and one more response.
The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
MR. REID: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
The hon. minister speaks a lot, but I have asked him two questions and he has
answered neither of them. Let me try one more.
Mr. Speaker, there was no consultation by this government with anybody before
embarking on this unilateral, unrealistic and undemocratic process of
reorganizing school boards. Minister, now that it has been shown that your plan
is not going to work, there will not be any savings realized, will you do what
the President of the NLTA suggested, and that is to shelve this botched program
until at least you have the decency to speak with all the affected stakeholders
in education in this Province?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: We will not shelve or delay this plan, Mr. Speaker. The
reason why is we have committed individuals, committed volunteers -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: - the existing board members. We have, Mr. Speaker, in
addition, our transitional committees along with a strong (inaudible) office
staff, along with interim directors who will soon be appointed. Mr. Speaker,
with those partners in education this plan will work, this transition will work
and there will be no delay in the plan that we have for September 1.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Question Period has expired.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I wanted to rise today and present a petition to the House of Assembly from
people in my district with regard to the Labrador Marine Service. People in my
district are very upset with the recent decision of this government to base the
Labrador ferry, the Sir Robert Bond , out of the port of Lewisporte.
People in my district have been told since 1997 that with the construction of a
highway through Southern Labrador than the ferry services would then move to the
closest points of service in Labrador, which would mean the Goose Bay and the
Cartwright ports. Mr. Speaker, that happened last year and as a result of it
there were some real economic opportunities generated for people in that
particular area. There was a tremendous amount of investment made in new
businesses. Actually, Mr. Speaker, more than $6 million in small business was
invested in my district alone last year in order to accommodate this new
service.
Mr. Speaker, government went out and hired a consultant, a consultant that
looked at every single aspect of this particular service and made a
recommendation to the government. That recommendation was quite clear and it was
written concisely saying that the Sir Robert Bond , the Labrador passenger
ferry, should operate between Cartwright and Goose Bay for the benefit of people
in the Labrador region. What government chose to do was ignore the
recommendation of the consultant; ignore the recommendations of a group that
they paid $150,000 to for advice. They ignored that. Instead, what they did was
they opted for a service that would operate out of the Port of Lewisporte to
service the people of Labrador at an additional expense of $1.7 million a year.
Mr. Speaker, this money belongs to the communities of Labrador. That money
was there to upgrade roads, to provide better services for the communities. It
was not there to subsidize a ferry to the community of Lewisporte or to
subsidize onshore jobs in the community of Lewisporte, Mr. Speaker. That is an
entirely different issue. The money was there to assist Labrador communities in
building their own infrastructure.
We have hundreds of kilometres of gravel roads in Labrador and this money
could better be used to upgrade those roads or to start paving them. We have
communities that do not have any road connections and the money could definitely
be used to do that, but that will not be the case. We will see almost $6 million
over the next three years wasted by this Administration across the way simply
because they tried to satisfy the political commitment of one minister that was
made during an election.
Well, Mr. Speaker, when the minister stood in this House he told people of
this Province that this decision of their government was supported by other
people in Labrador and by other people on the Island, but I am going to read to
you a list of people who have supported maintaining the ferry service at
Cartwright and Goose Bay.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has expired.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I will have to get to the list tomorrow as I am out of time today.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition on behalf of the constituents of my
district. The petition states:
WHEREAS parents and students in Carbonear do not want to have their school
close and unnecessarily bus students to Harbour Grace; and
WHEREAS existing school boards now cease to exist; and
WHEREAS a decision to close St. Mary's primary school in St. John's has
been reversed; and
WHEREAS a new school in Carbonear is deemed necessary by the parents;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to reverse the decision of the Avalon West School Board to
close St. Joseph's school, reverse the decision to bus students to Harbour
Grace and commit funds to construct a new school in Carbonear.
Mr. Speaker, this petition has been presented to me by parents and students
from my district concerned about the inappropriateness of what is happening and
what is going to happen to them come this September.
This September, Mr. Speaker -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I am wondering if we could have the tone of the House a little quieter so
that the Chair can hear the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
The hon. the member.
MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is a sad testimony this afternoon that, from the level and volume of noise
that is coming from the other side over there, it just shows the undue care and
concern that they share for this very important issue. It is little wonder that
the parents and the teachers and the committee out there cannot get any results
from this government. It is very indicative of what is happening here in this
Province today, Mr. Speaker, when a member has to stand here and try to shout
and drown out the noise and the din coming from the government members.
MR. E. BYRNE: The Opposition members (inaudible).
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, the Government House Leader, if he wants to get
up and have his commentary, he can wait until I present my petition on behalf of
my constituents, because I do not want to be interfered with and they do not
want to be interfered with.
That is why it is so very, very important that government listen to the
people of this Province, and especially to the people of my district, when this
tragic event is going to take place in September, when kids are going to be
moved from one school to a school that is not even ready for them; a school down
the street that is not ready, where students have to climb in over desks in the
classroom to get to a seat where there is no window; a peaceful library chopped
off and walls put up so it can be used as a classroom to accommodate the
students. That is the good school that they are going to be moved to. The school
in Harbour Grace, St. Francis, needs drastic repairs. No money has been
committed to date to do this.
Mr. Speaker, with the announcement of the board last week, the new
government-appointed board, I call upon the Minister of Education to put this
decision on hold, that St. Joseph's be allowed to operate for at least one
more year to give the new board, I say to the minister - I am glad you are
listening to me - to give the people out there some assurance that their case
will be reviewed by this new board, not by the board that is just being
dismissed, the new board that is in place right now.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has expired.
MR. SWEENEY: By leave, just to conclude, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, this is an important issue and I will be
standing to speak again on this, I say to the minister. I would like for you to
come out -
MR. SULLIVAN: (Inaudible) waste of time.
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance is telling me it is a
waste of time, but I will say to the Minister of Finance that it was not a waste
of time.
MR. SULLIVAN: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been raised.
On a point of order, the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of
Treasury Board.
MR. SULLIVAN: I just want to indicate that we would give him leave, I
said, for a short while, and I said that he is wasting his time talking about
something else. If he wants leave to finish it, I said we are prepared to give
leave.
MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.
The member has a moment or so to conclude.
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, just to conclude, it is never a waste of time
when you are speaking on behalf of your constituents.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: I say to the Minister of Finance, it is not a waste of time
for him to sit there and get a school in his district that was not even approved
by the board.
AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Leave has been withdrawn.
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I move that the House resolve itself into the Committee of the
Whole to consider certain resolutions relating to advancing or guaranteeing of
certain loans made under The Loan Guarantee Act, 1957. (Bill 14)
It has been moved and seconded that I do now leave the Chair for the House to
resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on the said Bill 14. Is it the
pleasure of the House that I do now leave the Chair for the House to resolve
itself into a Committee of the Whole on the said Bill 14.
All those in favour, aye.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay.
Motion carried.
On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr.
Speaker left the Chair.
Committee of the Whole
CHAIR (Fitzgerald): Order, please!
Bill 14,
An Act To Amend The Loan And Guarantee Act, 1957.
Should clause 1 carry?
The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.
MR. GRIMES: On a point of order, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIR: Order, please!
On a point of order, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Mr. Chairman, we intend to participate fully in the Committee
stage of this particular finance bill. I understand the Minister of Finance is
going to give some introductory remarks on behalf of the government at this
point in time. Consistent with our lack of confidence in what he says, and the
lack of credibility that he believes we have, we will be leaving our first
speaker, the Finance critic, here, and the rest of us will be leaving the
Legislature because we have no intention of listening to the Minister of
Finance.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
CHAIR: Order, please!
MR. E. BYRNE: To the point of order, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIR: Order, please!
To the point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Chairman, if that is the attitude of the Leader of the
Opposition, the sooner he leaves the better off we will all be.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
CHAIR: Order, please!
There is no point of order.
The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board, on Bill 14.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I am pleased to introduce an amendment to the Loan and Guarantee Act, 1957. A
lot of this information and things were transacted when they were in government,
so if they do not want to be around for bills that pertain to action that they
took, and future bills, decisions that they made, I can see why they do not want
to be here, because they do not want to own up to the responsibilities that were
entrusted to them and they failed to fulfill. That is why they do not want to be
here.
Mr. Chairman, this bill here, Bill 14, allows for the legislative authority
for new loan guarantees and for revisions to existing guarantees. This act was
last amended in December, 2001, so it was over two years ago since the former
government brought in amendments to deal with this. Now, I am entrusted with the
responsibility to bring forth to this House here amendments that have occurred
in a two-year period when they were in power, that they failed to bring to this
House of Assembly. Why? I think they can more truly answer those questions.
Under this act, Mr. Chairman, it is a fairly brief act, and subsequent to
approval of the Lieutenant-Governor in Council, my responsibility is to provide
guarantees on behalf of private sector or Crown Corporations in order to achieve
specific policy objectives or benefit regions of the Province.
Historically, Mr. Chairman, these guarantees have covered a variety of
financing arrangements, with the most common being operating and term financing
credits. This is basically a housekeeping amendment and requires that all
guarantees must be approved and must be ratified by the House of Assembly
through amendments to the schedules of the act. Once they are ratified, any
guarantees that have to be honoured as a result of default will then become
statutory payments. We do not have to come back to the House, Mr. Chairman, for
approval then.
I expected to see, last year, amendments brought forward. In 2002, I expected
to see a bill come before the House to deal with this, or in 2003. They pushed
everything off. Dozens of bills died on the Order Paper.
I might add, while I am speaking, that authority to borrow for their Budget
last year, the Budget that they brought in last year, they brought a bill to
this House, it did not even pass, borrowing authority for last year's Budget.
We have to come to this House now, in this session, and get borrowing authority
for their last year's Budget, for our Budget, and any future requirements we
might need to be able to meet debt requirements out there, or money to meet
ongoing costs of future borrowing. That is abdicating responsibility given to
them in this House.
Anyway, Mr. Chairman, I am not going to elaborate. It is fairly
straightforward here. These bills are listed. They have been ongoing, these
clauses, and recognition of these particular parts which we are looking at under
this act on guarantees. They have seen the Education Investment Corporation, for
example, continue with school borrowing programs, to continue with programs. In
fact, this increase was given to increase this authority to the Marble Mountain
Development Corporation, $1.45 million and $1.7 million, subsequently $2.1
million. These decisions are on numerous initiatives, some affecting members in
their district. The Torngat Fish Producers Co-operative Society Limited, for
example - ones the Member for Torngat Mountains should know - and Health
Labrador Corporation and various other areas. Newfoundland Ocean Enterprises
Limited, many of these, Mr. Chair. Decisions the former government made but
never came to this House to be able to get approval for. Whether they felt
guilty in bringing it to the House where they did not want to own up to the
responsibility, whatever it was, I am not sure. As I said, they will have to
answer for that, but I am presenting this bill here to get authority from the
Legislature so we can deal with these particular guarantees and be able to carry
on and get specific work done, and honouring those commitments that were made
previously to it.
With that, Mr. Chair, I will conclude for this moment, anyway, any comments
on this bill. I know I have the right in Committee to come back again for any
particular comments here. I will leave it at that. I am sure people may want to
get on and discuss this. It is doing work primarily, Mr. Chair, that the former
government did not do and would not bring to this House.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I am responding today to Bill 14,
An Act to Amend The Loan And Guarantee Act,
It is interesting how the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board
prefaced his remarks on this bill. It is also interesting to know that it is
almost a year since this House has been open; almost a year. Now, he prefaced
his remarks by saying that the previous government did not deal with these
bills. Well, I would say to the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board, the first time this House was opened this year was March 18, 2004. When
were you elected, I would say to this new government? It was October 21, 2003.
You had plenty of time to get to this House if you wanted to. But, no, you did
not want to. That was clear January 5, when the Premier of this Province
inflated the financial situation of this Province - Province's finances to his
own benefit. That is what he did.
This bill talks about: "Clause 1 of the Bill would amend the
Schedule to
The Loan and Guarantee Act , 1957."
There are three or four entities there that are looking for loan guarantees.
The first one is Health Labrador Corporation. They are looking for a loan
guarantee and it is a guarantee not to exceed $9 million.
It is interesting how this one - here in this it says, "When a strategy
acceptable to both government and the corporation's bank is in place, the
guarantee will be withdrawn." Then down at the bottom of the same paragraph
it says, "The corporation's ongoing cash requirements may require an
increase in the guarantee, which will be ratified through a future amendment to
the Act." It is kind of contradictory when it says the government is
requesting that Health Labrador Corporation balance its books on one hand so
they can withdraw their guarantee, and then on the other hand they are saying
that they may need a larger request for a guarantee in the future.
Torngat Fish Producers Co-operative Society Limited, $2.1 million. Marble
Mountain increases from $1.45 million to $1.7 million.
This is an interesting one here in the bottom. It says, "...increasing
the loan guarantee of the Newfoundland and Labrador Education Investment
Corporation from $75 million to $105 million as authorized by Order in Council
2003-556. This is to facilitate additional financing for the construction of new
schools, as well as the repair and renovation of existing facilities." To
the best of my knowledge the only one that is going to be constructed this year
in this Province, in the way of new schools, is in the Minister of Finances own
district of Ferryland. To the best of my knowledge everything else is being put
on hold.
Now, what kind of government is this that had only one mission in mind on
January 5? The Premier, I think, himself, was the one who brought this to the
people's attention. He said that the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
pays out $1 billion a year in interest payments to the banks. Now these are the
real loans here that we have to pay interest on. These are a group of
corporations that we have guaranteed loans for. Also, when you look at the fact
that school boards and other entities of government - these are the ones where
interest is paid. It is not on unfunded pension liabilities and so on, but the
Premier left the impression here in this Province that we are paying out $1
billion a year in interest on the Province's debt to the banks and that is
incorrect.
I guess that must have been felt and accepted by the general population. It
certainly was by the public sector, workers in this Province, that he convinced
we had no money. He convinced them, right at the start, that they need a
two-year wage freeze, which they accepted and agreed to. Then he convinced them,
right up to the end, of the situation of the Province. As a result, they were
left with nothing that they could bring back to their membership. In fact, they
lost some of the concessions that they had. So, I guess he got top marks for
that.
When I heard his Government House Leader today on a request from our
Opposition House Leader - our Opposition House Leader asked a simple question.
We wanted to ask the Premier of this Province about the new Department of
Business that he is setting up. Do you think he would oblige us - which is his
responsibility to do as the Premier of the Province who heads this new
Department of Business. He is the minister of that department, and he is also
the Premier.
It is normal for any minister who heads a department to be available to
answer any and all questions that might come forward during the Estimates
Committee process, but, no, all we seen today was total arrogance. We wanted to
be accommodating on this side of the House. We wanted to be accommodating and
reschedule. We know that the Premier is currently in Europe. We wanted to be
accommodating and reschedule that Estimates Committee meeting so we could ask
firsthand: What is your intention in creating this new Department of Business?
What are your plans for growing the economy? What kind of physical presence will
we have?
We know that people will be employed for that particular department. We saw
some glossy ads in The Telegram this weekend looking for deputy ministers
and information officers. Normally, the Premier of the Province appoints deputy
ministers, but in this particular situation he wants to go out and check around
the world and see if there is somebody out there with different expertise than
he has been accustomed to here. He is looking for someone outside to fill that
role. These are the kinds of questions we want to ask this Premier about this
new Department of Business. Is he going to be available for our questions? Oh,
no. That is not on his agenda. It should be the first thing on his agenda. He
has that responsibility.
When questioned today, the Opposition Leader asked the Government House
Leader if he would reschedule. Do you know what the Government House Leader
said? No, I do not want to check with the Premier. He has no intention of
checking with the Premier whether or not he will reschedule this important
committee meeting. I would suspect that the Government House Leader has already
received his orders from the Premier before he went to Berlin. You make sure
that meeting takes place while I am gone. That was his orders. Make sure the
meeting takes place and that matter is clued up when I get back. Also, make sure
that the Minister of Human Resources and Employment, and the Status of Women
gets her bad news out there and that is swallowed up and gone by the time I get
back. I am not dealing with that stuff. Make sure the Minister of Government
Services, whatever she has to do and if she has to drop the axe and close the
deep holes around rural Newfoundland, get that done while I am gone because I am
not dealing with that stuff when I get back. I want that to be old news so I do
not have to deal with that when I get back. I am the Premier of this Province
and I want to grow the economy my way. I do not want to be bothered with that
stuff. Get that done so I do not have to deal with that when I get back. I can
well imagine if I were a fly on the wall, that is exactly what I would hear.
That is what he said.
The Minister of Human Resources and Employment casually talks about the
number of people who have lost their jobs, twenty-eight. Then the Minister of
Government Services gets up and talks about that casual number. Then another
minister gets up and talks about another casual number. The Minister of Finance
and President of Treasury Board talks about 4,000 people as if it were so
casual, losing their jobs. Do they have any interest in the people of this
Province?
Then the Minister of Education talks about cuts to the College of the North
Atlantic like is was a routine occurrence, when the President of the College of
the North Atlantic came out and said, in her own words, that the cuts were
attributed only because of the orders that she got through the Budget, that she
must find $2 million in operating expense savings.
How can the Minister of Finance, the President of Treasury Board, on one hand
say, I am going to give you a tuition freeze this year - both to the College of
the North Atlantic and Memorial University - and then, on the other hand, ask
for the money back? That is contrary to everything they said in this Blue Book.
That is totally contrary to everything you said in this Blue Book. In other
words, this Blue Book is rubbish. I thought right from the start it was rubbish.
Now everybody else is thinking it as well. You certainly do not believe your own
propaganda. How can the people of the Province believe or trust anything that
you are saying? The Minister of Education said that any savings from
consolidation of school boards originally would go into savings. He said that
last year.
The people who stood on this side of the House last year were so insistent
that any consolidation or any savings from school reform would remain in
education. They were so consistent in their remarks, and now they have turned
full circle. That does not matter any more. None of that matters. We see
political patronage appointments to the Chairs of the transitional school
boards. That was a new approach that this Premier was never going to use. Here
he is, the new approach. There is no such thing. It was just words, words,
meaningless words, to the people of this Province.
When you look at the things that are happening all around this Province....
Then the Minister of Education was going to cap class sizes at twenty-five
students per teacher in primary grades. Today, he says that he does not think he
can do that until the end of his mandate, and then he wants to move into the
eight-year mandate to get into the elementary school. How foolish does he think
the people of this Province are, to believe any word that anybody in this
government are saying? It is incredible what is going on here. It is nothing but
betrayal from start to finish. It all happened on January 5, when the people of
this Province were conned into believing a bogus report by Michael Gourley, who
represented PricewaterhouseCoopers, who inflated the figures. He inflated the
deficit, he inflated the amount - I do not know if he inflated it, but I guess
the message got through to the Premier: Use those words, that we are going to be
paying out $1 billion interest to the banks every year.
That was nothing but lies and innuendo, totally false, but it achieved what
this government wanted to do, because on the backs of ordinary people they sent
public sector workers back to work without any increase in salary except for
years three and four. They managed to take concessions off the table, they
managed to go and have a two-tiered system, and they saved $60 million in public
service salaries during that whole experience. That is what they did.
They used that same line of communication to bring in consolidation of school
boards. They had no evidence. They spoke to no one. They ran roughshod over the
people with absolutely no evidence, and came in and made their decision. They
are doing the same thing with Human Resources and Employment offices, the very
same thing. They have no evidence and they are putting that on the backs of the
poorest of the poor, as the minister said today. Who, of those who are social
service client recipients, have money to invest in a computer or internet hookup
and do not need the services of a face-to-face person when they go into a Human
Resources and Employment office? Can you tell me if the social service
recipients of this Province are into high-tech and they have the capability, and
the financial ability, to be on-line so they do not have to actually go in and
make a visit, so they do not have to make a visit to a person and let them know
what their situation is, and if they have doctors notes or accompanying
information, or if they are applying for a drug card or anything of that nature,
that they could actually e-mail it, or have to use the post office, when they
could actually go in and sit down to a person and say: Here is my situation,
here is the information you need, make a decision.
What are we going to see this summer for our young people in the way of
summer jobs? I think we are going to see a huge decrease in summer jobs for our
students this summer. I do not know what kind of a priority this government
places on summer employment for our young people. I am beginning to question it,
when I know that you have already reduced your budget for high school
employment, Levels I, II and III. Where did the high school students get jobs?
They were mostly in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. It is not very difficult to
find a job in St. John's - we have all kinds of retail outlets that will hire
young people - but where do you find a job in Badger's Quay for a young
person? Where do you find a job in Ramea for a young person? Where do you find a
job in Buchans Junction, Buchans, Millertown or Badger for a young person? Those
communities depend on government supplying student employment grants for our
young people. That is what they look forward to every year.
CHAIR: Order, please!
I remind the hon. member that her time has expired.
MS THISTLE: Thank you.
I have been keeping my own record and I agree with you. I will have another
opportunity later on.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I stand today to offer my few words to the debate that continues on in this
budgetary process. Mr. Chairman, I would like to bring some attention to what is
happening in the Province today as we speak. We talked today. Question Period
was consumed mostly about the cuts that have taken place just today in two
sectors of the Province, and I am sure we will see more as the week progresses
and the month progresses, as this Budget unfolds and becomes clear to the
people; because this Budget certainly does not represent the government's
promise of a new approach and a better way to do things, where there are a lot
of people out there who have been caught up in the cuts, who are anticipating
being caught up in these cuts, despite the fact that prior to the election of
October 21, the newspapers of the Province, the radio stations, were flooded
with ads saying that there will be no cuts, that there will be more opportunity
for the young people of this Province.
You know, as we look at the Blue Book - and most people call it now the boo
book - there is nothing in there at all that you can take one bit of consolation
in as being true. Every single promise that has been in the Blue Book has been
broken by this Budget. Every single thing that has come forward has been a
contradiction to the great Tory plan of a more prosperous Newfoundland and
Labrador. Speech after speech by candidate after candidate across this Province
for the PC Party promised a brighter and better future. That brighter and better
future, I am sad to say, contains a lot of remorse, a lot of sadness, a lot of
uncertainty, for not only the people who are laid off today but for their
children, and the words used last week - the children and their children's
children - when everybody stood over on the other side and supported Bill 18, a
bill to send people back to work, who were already working.
The cuts to teachers, 476. What is that going to do for our education system?
An education system in my own district, for instance, right now, that is caught
up with a great deal of uncertainty as to where their children will be in school
in September. What kind of accommodations will they receive when they go there?
What kind of classrooms will they be in? What kind of lunchrooms will they be
eating their lunch in? What kind of buses will they be traveling on? How many
more of these things will the people of this Province endure over the next four
years? That is the question people are asking.
The call that I received this morning in my office: How can we get rid of
this government? That is what one lady said to me. She said: They have to be
stopped. We did not vote for this. I am ashamed to say that I voted PC. I have
been a Conservative all my life, and never again. Never again.
I have had numerous calls saying the same thing. When we look at just what we
face today, we have to think about the families of the workers who have been
displaced today. What becomes of them? What becomes of the homes they worked so
hard to build and put around themselves? Their families, the futures of their
children, what happens to them? We have so much uncertainty that this Budget
brings forward, it is a heart wrenching experience, I know, for me, as a
politician, who has always had a great and close relationship with the
constituents in his district, to go out there and they will look at me and say:
George, is this going to get any worse? It cannot get any worse. The next day,
it does get worse. What do people think? The tremendous amount of regret that
they are experiencing, and wishing they had their time back to October 21, when
they could have cast their vote another way.
Mr. Chairman, our college system, over thirty-five people have been laid off
in our college system, to save $2 million at CONA. Programs are dropped. The
Business Administration program in the campus in my own community, in Carbonear,
is gone, and the word there from the staff, who have all called me today, said
to me: Yes, we are going to train out the last of the few students for Business
Administration and then we are going to have empty classrooms here.
Mr. Chairman, I went through this in the mid-1980s. As a matter of fact, it
is what brought me to politics. It is what got me involved. I was a college
instructor, quite happy in what I was doing, and my students were quite happy
with me. They were going out there and getting jobs, every single one of them,
at a time in the 1980s when the prospects were not that great for work, but we
worked at it together and we found work.
At the end of it, lo and behold, a friend of a former politician decided he
wanted a course in that school. Anyway, I was displaced because, I guess, of my
political stripe, and I was moved on to another school, thanks to my seniority,
but the amount of hardship that has caused to this day because people trying to
get a trade in electrical cannot get it in Conception Bay North any more. They
have to go to Conception Bay South, either that or go to a private college, and
we start looking at the expense that is compared there, when you have to endure
student loans and look at the system.
The CONA of Newfoundland and Labrador, the College of the North Atlantic, has
been world renowned. It is over in Qatar right now and I think the last contract
was $500 million that CONA landed.
AN HON. MEMBER: The biggest contract in Canadian history.
MR. SWEENEY: The biggest contract in the history of our country, for a
public college to land, or even a private college, and that was the initial
contract. That shows the excellence of our system. Here we are now, not having -
this government over there not having - the faith and the confidence in our
public system to put $2 million in and keep growing our college system. So, what
are we doing? We are downsizing our college system. That, to me, smacks the
young people, the people who were promised a better future under a PC
Government, smacks them right in the face. The graduates from the Province's
post-secondary institution right now, today, don't look forward to the 216
jobs or the 311 jobs, whatever number is being spun out to us today, they can't
look forward to filling those jobs. They can't look forward to filling the
other 4,000 jobs that are going to go over the next little while.
I think the Minister of Finance said today, that they are targeting 4,000
fewer positions throughout the public service. What a sad testimony for
government to make, to say to the young people who are students in our schools,
that: Yes, we are giving away 4,000 positions, you won't be filling them. We
won't be filling them. What a sad testimony. The more I think about it, what
reason would a young person right now, living in this Province, have to stay
here? They are being essentially told: Move off, move away, there is no
opportunity here for you.
I read in the Western Star, the President of CONA, who said, the first
thing that would happen for displaced workers is they would be given an
opportunity of looking at positions in Qatar. Well, how many people are in a
position to go to Qatar? How many people are in that position? If you sign on
with these college systems - granted, when you get a job with a community
college you know you are taking a cut in pay. If you are a trades person or a
professional, the salaries in those places are not as high as in the private
sector, out there in industry or business. When you stop and think about that,
that means somebody has made a commitment to our public education system, that
they are willing to go there for a reduced rate of pay. I know I did. When I
went to work with the college system, I know what my cheque was when I left the
industry and moved into the teaching profession at the college. I saw what a
dramatic impact that had on my bank account, I can tell you that. I brought to
that position a commitment to stay there as long as I could, as well as
everybody else.
I had a call today from a Terry Young with twenty-seven years in the college
system: Gone! Given his notice! Now, he is faced, depending on his
circumstances, with where he can bump in this Province, where he can find
another position. That is not what this is all about. The new approach, to me,
is certainly hurting the people we represent in this Province.
The minister today, when questioned about the weigh scale operators: Oh, no.
Everything is going to be fine. We are going to have stations in Pynn's Brook,
Grand Falls and Goobies. Well, I can remember a little while ago when a
tractor-trailer broke off just outside of Goobies, disintegrated on the highway
in the ruts, whether it was because of the weight or whatever it was. A
tractor-trailer disintegrated, and the highway out there was closed for a number
of hours until it was cleaned up. Those are not the things that make for good
government. Public safety has to be tantamount in governing. The people out
there with tractor-trailers now leaving some point in Nova Scotia and coming
into -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SWEENEY: From Nova Scotia into Port aux Basques before it is weighed.
Now it has to continue on to Pynns Brook.
CHAIR: Order, please!
I remind the member that his time has expired.
MR. SWEENEY: Leave, just to clue up, Mr. Chair.
CHAIR: Does the member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
CHAIR: By leave.
MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
In conclusion, I have to say that these are only some of the things. I have
to think about the news story today on VOCM news about the Carbonear General
Hospital. The hospital is losing twenty beds. A lot of people out there are
very, very concerned. The phone in my office has not stopped up there this
morning.
CHAIR: Order, please!
MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Chair, I conclude.
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I am glad they filtered back in again. Maybe they took responsibility finally
or felt guilty on their own business that they never took care of since
December, 2001, and they wanted to come back in again and have a comment. I am
glad to see them come back in again. Even if they are guilty, we will certainly
hear from them when they get up whether that is the reason they came back.
There are aspects of this bill that this government would not bring forward.
They have increased guarantees, which are referenced here. They increased them
and did not bring it to Legislature in 2002; increased them in 2003. Of course,
did not bring them to Legislature in 2003. They had opportunities. Why didn't
they bring it to the Legislature? Are they trying to hide it on the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador? Is that their reason for doing it? Well, I can tell
you, we will bring - we changed guarantees - it to the Legislature in a timely
fashion and be accountable. We will not leave it for two years, waiting until an
election passes and then let it come to the House and let somebody else do it.
They have to own up to their responsibilities, Mr. Chairman. They have to do
what they were elected to do. Put every tough decision off. We had to face a
significant deficit in this year's Budget due to an irresponsible government
that pushed everything off to the future. They took one-time money and pushed
that off to the future. The children and the grandchildren and the
great-grandchildren for years to come are going to be paying for this government's
mistakes in the past.
It is never pleasant when layoffs are announced. We have 195 layoffs
generally, and there is a redevelopment centre set up under the Public Service
Commission to identify and match people who can get back into the workforce. For
instance, since our budgetary time we have looked at - there were 331 positions.
We have reduced that by 114 due to attrition. So more than one-third of the
people who were identified back at Budget time now are working and will not need
to be laid off technically because attrition has occurred and other means in the
system to accommodate and enable that to happen, Mr. Chairman.
This process is ongoing and over the next while we hope that all - we would
hope. We cannot guarantee, no one guarantees. If you can guarantee me attrition
rates and what position they are going to occur in, then we can look at
guarantees, but nobody knows that. Somebody might want to retire. They might
want to leave the workforce. They might want to take a job elsewhere and so on.
These are the types of things we are going to work with unions to accommodate
and try to identify. There is a redeployment centre to be established. These
people have access to that. Nobody else will get priority over them in accessing
jobs they are qualified to obtain which occur through vacancies within
government. We want to manage that, we want to organize it, and we want to
cushion that blow.
The number we announced back at Budget time - we said there could be 700
people throughout hospital boards, through school boards, the College of the
North Atlantic, through all these areas. That number is now revised, Mr.
Chairman. The total now is down in the 550 range, not at the 700 range now.
Hopefully, it will go down significantly more over the course of the next month
and two months as this process works itself through, with the assistance and
work of the Public Service Commission, with the unions and with my Department of
Treasury Board in working with that to be able to identify people and do a
matching with those positions. So, it is important. We have to do responsible
things. If we do not protect our future we will not have an education system, we
will not have a health care system, we will not have anything in the future. We
will not have any of these.
I heard the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace talking about maybe the truck
was overloaded when it hit and broke off. I am not sure if that was the case at
all. I thought it was that the road was in such terrible condition. My
understanding at the time, and I am not intimately familiar with the details,
but I think that probably had something to do with it. It was in terrible shape
on that part of the Trans-Canada Highway I understand. I think that was probably
one of the reasons. If is was, their government was in power at the time. So
trying to transfer that over to this government today when it happened when they
were in government. How silly to be getting on with that nonsense and trying to
indicate that something this government - or even imply or insinuate that might
happen. That is utter nonsense!
We have a bill here today - they should get up. They should be ashamed. They
should get up quickly and pass it and get it off the Order Paper as fast as they
possibly can because they are the ones who should have dealt with most of this
in the past. We would not have to be dealing with it now. If they have any
honour, get up, get it out of there, and say we should have done it in 2002. We
should have done it in 2003. Get it over and done with. Admit responsibility,
that they hid it on the people of the Province for a year and two years. Now we
are finding out the truth of their inaction and their failure to live up to
their responsibilities. All they were focused on was the next election. Pushing
everything off into the future; get them by the next election and trying to get
as many seats as they can. Shirk their responsibilities, and now we find out all
the mess they created.
A billion dollar deficit we are facing over the next four years; over a
billion a year. We managed to get it down to $840 million this year. We are
going to work on it over the next three years, over the next three Budgets, to
address these problems that they created here. We are going to do it because if
we do not do it the future of this Province will be a lot less bright, I must
say, than it would be if we accept the responsibility to do it. Nobody likes to
layoff. Nobody likes to have big deficits. We have to get rid of it. We have to
stop paying on debt. How many people like to be writing cheques for hundreds and
hundreds of millions a year to pay interest on a debt? We did not have to do
that, Mr. Chairman. If we did not have any new borrowings, we could get it down
where we eliminated new borrowings. At least we would have accomplished
something significant. We would not be adding more debt on to what we have. At
least we will be servicing the debt we have, and it is at lower interest rates
than it was ten and fifteen years ago. So, we will find that we will get ahead,
we will turn the corner, and we will turn the corner. It will take a term to
turn the corner, but we will do it and we will put this Province back on a path
of prosperity, but we have to get the brakes on. We have to stop that billion
dollar annual slide that they have put us in. When we stop that, we are going to
turn it around and we are going to get it back moving again, and that will be in
the best interest of the people of this Province.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I rise today to speak on Bill 14, that is before the House, and I certainly
cannot go on without making some comments on what the Minister of Finance and
President of Treasury Board has just said. I say to him that there is a
difference between balancing the books and maintaining a good service for the
people of the Province, and what we are seeing here is a very heavy-handed
approach by him and his government to do only a balanced Budget regardless of
how it impacts the people of the Province, regardless of how our education
system may suffer, regardless of how the access to services are prohibited to
people where they live in the Province. That is certainly a philosophy that I do
not support and that I do not agree with.
Mr. Chairman, when you talk about providing services to people, I think that
what happened in this House today, the details that we knew would come, is the
kind of a platform and principles upon which this government would stand. I am
going to say to the hon. Member for Mount Pearl, that perhaps if he would be
quiet for a few minutes he might learn a little bit about what I am going to say
here today, because it is no laughing matter, I will tell you that. It is no
laughing matter when the minister will not even walk into this House of Assembly
and stand on her feet in a Ministerial Statement to talk about the twenty
offices in Human Resources and Employment that she is going to close, but rather
sends out a press release on a wire from her office four minutes before this
Legislature is called to session. I have never seen the like in my life! If she
believes firmly enough in what she is doing, she would stand in this House today
and present her statement to the House of Assembly, which is the purpose of this
House, to inform the people of the Province, to bring issues forward for debate
- regardless of what side of the issue you stand on, regardless of whether you
have unanimous support or if there is opposition to the issue. That is the
purpose of the House of Assembly, not to hide away in one's office and send
out a fax before they show up in the House.
Well, Mr. Chairman, I am not happy with the twenty HRE offices that are
closing in this Province today. I am not happy at all, because when you look at
where these offices are based throughout the Province, it is the most rural
areas, the most remote areas, that will lose the HRE offices: places like Fogo
Island, that will see their offices closed; two offices that will close in my
own district, one in Cartwright and one in the Labrador Straits; places like
Harbour Breton that will have their offices close; places like Bonne Bay and
Englee. No, I do not support the decision that the minister has made, and I can
guarantee you that there are a lot of other people out there who do not support
it.
There is one thing I have to say, because I have lived in a rural community
all of my life and I know how hard it is to access the services provided to the
public. Whether it be through financial assistance programs or career
exploration programs, through Human Resources and Employment, or education
programs, or health services, it has never been easy for rural areas in this
Province.
Mr. Chairman, with the closing of these twenty offices, what you are seeing
is not just the closing of a Human Resources and Employment office, but you are,
in fact, losing some of the keenest resource people that those communities have
had to rely upon. These individuals, in many cases, Mr. Chairman, were the
people who kept together all of the programs in these small communities. They
extended themselves beyond what was required within their immediate job. I would
think that the minister would know that. The implications are much more
far-reaching than certainly she indicates they are today.
I know a lot of these people personally, Mr. Chairman. I have lived around
them. I went to school with them. I have grown up with them, and I still have
contact with them on a regular basis, all throughout the Province, who work in
this profession. They know, Mr. Chairman - and I rely upon their opinions - and
what they tell me is that they are in a very stressful job as it is, that they
are required to be available to their clients on a full-time basis, and that
they quite often go beyond what is required from them as financial assistance
officers. They are always there to serve the people within whatever regions they
are.
Mr. Chairman, this is a group of people who are already experiencing backlogs
in servicing the clientele that they are hired to service. Now, we are going to
see even more backlogs with the elimination of almost thirty positions today
with this announcement, another almost thirty people in this Province who will
foreseeably be out of a job or asked to relocate from the area in which they
live. Do I support it? Indeed, I do not.
The minister rationalizes her decision in her press release, because she did
not rationalize it in the House of Assembly, I can tell you that, but in her
press release, Mr. Chairman, she says that clients could access the income
support system through telephone application in the privacy of their own home.
I have a newsflash for you, Minister, there are a lot of your clients who
live in my district who do not have access to a telephone, a good many of them.
There are a lot of them in a lot of other areas in this Province. I am sure in
the Minister of Finance's own district, in Ferryland, and in the area of
Placentia, and in the Fogo area and in the Harbour Breton area, in the
Piccadilly area, out close to home, I can tell you now that a lot of your
clients, Madam, do not have a telephone to be able to access the services of
your office. I know this because I know these people personally and I know the
trials and tribulations that they go through on a daily basis. Now, the only
income they have, the only access to service they have, because of unfortunate
circumstances, happens to be through the Human Resources and Employment office,
and now that office is again being taken away from them.
The minister talks about creating greater access to employment and career
services, but I certainly did not see a plan here to hire twenty new workers to
focus on career and employment services within her department. If you want to
talk about bridging the gap between social assistance recipents or dependents to
an employable occupation, then you have to put some serious effort into it. It
just cannot be words to paper. It has to be a serious commitment of financial
resources and proper career training for these individuals. That includes making
accessible to them child care expenses, because many of them have dependents and
they just cannot drop everything and go back to school and retrain. They need to
have those support mechanisms available to them. They also need to ensure that
they have financial contributions to further education and study. Those
guarantees, I do not see anywhere in the minister's release that she put out
over the wire at 1:26 p.m. today. None of those things are included. It is just
words, Mr. Chairman, words that say that we are going to focus more on
employment and career services, but absolutely no indication here that she
intends to hire any new resources within those offices to be able to do that.
Mr. Chairman, that is just one issue today. The other thing that I am finding
out today, as it affects my district, is that we are not going to have any more
driver examinations being offered in the Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair District.
Do you know what they are being told by the Minister of Government Services
today, Mr. Chairman? That they are going to have to go to Flower's Cove on the
Northern Peninsula of the Island if they want to do a driver's examination.
Now, I thought that was the most ridiculous thing that I have ever heard. You
are taking about one of the most remote areas, one of the areas where the
Minister of Transportation already is throwing up his hands in the air because
he does not know how to get the snow off the road up there, and now they are
actually telling them that we will have no more driver examination services in
your area. You will have to go to Flower's Cove on the Northern Peninsula. Mr.
Chairman, that is absolutely ridiculous to expect people to do such a thing. I
have to question where this government is getting their ideas to, where they are
laying out their plans to, because I can guarantee you that they are not talking
to anyone in my district, or anyone in that region because if they were they
would certainly not have been told that we do not want any more driver
examinations and that we are prepared to drive to the Northern Peninsula to do a
drivers test.
Mr. Chairman, I do not know where they take their direction but I can
guarantee you it is not in consultation with people. We have seen that time and
time again in this House. Not only when they close down HRE offices, as they did
today in my district and many other districts in the Province, but also with the
driver examination services. The closure of school boards, Mr. Chairman, that
was done with no consultation with anyone; without consultation with parent
committees, without consultation with teachers, without consultation with
principals or even the boards themselves, the elected school boards that are out
there.
CHAIR: Order, please!
I remind the member that her time has expired.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I will just clue up for a minute, if it is okay.
Mr. Chairman, there was very little consultation on that issue. My time has
now expired so I will have to take my seat and hopefully have an opportunity to
debate further in the day.
Thank you.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I have to say with the announcement today by the Minister of Human Resources
and Employment, and the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women, it is
indeed a sad day throughout the rural parts of Newfoundland and Labrador. I know
it is certainly a sad day in Grand Bank, which happens to be my hometown, and in
the District of Grand Bank, where today we have seen the closure of our Human
Resources office. I can tell you that there are employees there who are very
disappointed and saddened today. There was some indication, of course, that this
was coming, but they all, I guess, hoped for the best. They hoped that at the
end of the day that office would not be cut, any more than any other office
across the Province should not be cut.
Having said that, Mr. Chairman, today we found out that, indeed, the office
is closed. It is going to have a devastating impact on the people in the
District of Grand Bank who use that office on a regular basis. I know only too
well a lot of these people. They are my constituents. A lot of them do not have
access to a car. A lot of them do not have access to the new technology, as the
minister puts it, as her rationale for doing what was done today. These people
need that face-to-face interaction. These are people who need the supports that
a government should be able to provide to them. They did not expect, when they
voted and elected a PC government, to find that the very services they have
become used to, expect and deserve, will be taken away from them. They did not
expect that vote, that they cast in the election in October, would take away
services that are so vitally important to our most vulnerable in society.
That is exactly what has happened here today. The closure of twenty Human
Resources offices throughout Newfoundland and Labrador. I know they are now
wondering how they are going to deal with this situation. First and foremost, of
course, we have employees in those twenty offices who were hard-working,
dedicated employees. I know in my circumstance, in Grand Bank, these employees
worked above and beyond the call of duty. In fact, many of them were overworked
to the point where I know some of them have been off on extended sick leave. My
heart goes out to them because I know that in addition to having worked so hard
on behalf of the people of the Province, and on behalf of a government that is
their employer, that the only thanks they got was a lay off, fired, gone. Some
of them, obviously, will be able to bump into other positions but all that means
is that other people will have to be displaced. So, they will just spread the
pain. No one likes to have to bump because what you do when you do that is you
displace another worker. It means someone else has to go without a job. Someone
else has to go without an income so that another individual can be gainfully
employed.
So, it is a sad day. It is another black mark against this PC government.
Certainly, it is a black mark for the people of the Province, but especially in
Grand Bank today. Not just in Grand Bank, because while the office is in Grand
Bank it serves the entire District of Grand Bank. Of course, this coupled with
the cancellation of a new health care facility - which, again, served many more
people than just those in the District of Grand Bank - is sending a very strong
message, and that is this government is not concerned about, has no compassion
for, the people in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.
A $17.5 million facility that was analyzed over and over by all of the
stakeholders involved - I did not do the analysis. It was not a project of the
MHA. It was a decision taken after extensive consultation with all of the
stakeholders. Today I am told that tenders have gone out to take down the steel,
and not only to take down the steel, but to bury the foundation work that has
been done. Three million dollars has been spent, and the message that this
government is sending is that no one will ever be able to utilize that site in
the future to build a health care facility. We are going to make sure of that.
Not only are they doing this for whatever reason, and nobody in the world would
believe the reasons that are being given, but they are making sure that no one
else will be able to do it. So, it is a sad day, two initiatives by this
government that are really having a devastating impact on the people in the
District of Grand Bank.
Then, of course, we have the closure of the school board. We have the teacher
cuts, and it is clear, from the decisions that have been taken by this
government, by the PC government, that education is not a priority. My colleague
from Grand Falls-Buchans has stood, on several occasions, and made that very
point. Interestingly enough today, when I read the editorial in The Telegram ,
the point was also made there. I do not know how anyone would think that you can
have a sound economy without having a sound education system. Everything this
government has been doing detracts from our education system. Fewer teachers
mean fewer courses mean multigrading. It just isn't possible for this
government to convince any of us, and I expect the people of Newfoundland and
Labrador, that they understand the value of a sound education system.
The irony in all of it, of course, is that the Premier has touted the Ireland
experience as something he would like to model his initiatives after. Well, if
you want to do that, do it by looking at what Ireland has done from an education
perspective. They have done everything they can to make sure that students have
a sound education experience, that post-secondary students have access to
affordable quality education. Do not do what you have set out to do in this
Budget. Of course, we are really not sure, with the Budget, what it is you are
doing, because on the one hand you bring down a set of numbers and say this is
the way it is going to be, and then, within a matter of a week, two weeks, three
weeks, we get a different story. So, we really do not know, when we talk about
the Budget that we have been presented with, how much of it is valid, whether or
not when we are debating the Budget we are actually debating the numbers that we
are presented with, or if, in fact, we should be looking, expecting amendments
because of decisions that have come after the Budget. Whatever, I know that it
is confusing, it is puzzling, it is disappointing, it is everything that is bad,
because we see so little of any positive announcements or initiatives coming out
of the government.
Education is so important. I have yet to hear from this government any
initiative with respect to literacy. Of all the initiatives that we did as a
government, the one that I was really proud of was everything we did with
respect to literacy in the Province, recognizing that we have a high illiteracy
rate and that the people who need that support are, again, the most vulnerable.
They are the last to ask for help but they need it.
What we were able to do by focusing on the need for literacy initiatives was
to bring people out of their shells, to encourage them to come forward, to
acknowledge that they had a problem, and not a problem of their own making. It
was not their fault that they had difficulties, but for whatever reason, a fault
of the system, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, whatever the reason
for people finding themselves in circumstances where they wish they were not,
many of them were brave enough to acknowledge that they needed help.
I have yet to hear from this government any acknowledgment of the need to
continue with literacy programs and initiatives, I have yet to hear from them
the kind of funding they are putting in for these programs, and I am worried
about it. I am sincerely worried about it.
At the end of the day, I think we all know that the people who rely on these
programs are not the ones who stand up and protest, and shout and scream. They
are the ones who take it in stride, but hope beyond hope that the government
will indeed acknowledge that there is an issue there.
MADAM CHAIR (Osborne): Order, please!
I remind the hon. member that her time is up.
MS FOOTE: Thank you, Madam Chair, and I appreciate the time.
MADAM CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and
Employment, and Minister Responsible for the Status of Women.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BURKE: Thank you, Madam Chair.
I rise today to address some issues and some concerns regarding the closure
of the twenty HRLE offices in Newfoundland and Labrador, that were announced
today.
Madam Chair, I would like to draw to the people's attention, that in 1997
the Department of Human Resources was split into two departments. Health and
Community Services took on the responsibility for youth corrections, family and
rehab services and child protection, as well as other social services.
At that time, the Department of Human Resources and Employment was formed and
took on two roles. The roles that were assumed at that time included income
support as well as employment and career services. As this department continues
to grow, of course, we have taken on new responsibilities. This department is
now responsible for income support, employment and career services, youth
services, as well as immigration. We have also taken responsibility for the new
Labour Relations Agency which has labour standards and labour relations.
Madam Chair, I would like to talk about the necessity for the changes that we
have implemented, and we will be implementing in September, which is the closure
of our twenty offices. The system that we have been operating under, Madam
Chair, has been outdated. The system of income support applications, at times,
is dated back to the 1960s. I can remember working in the department during the
summer of 1985, as a summer student, when I worked with income support, that at
that time, anyone who applied for income support had to have a home visit done.
These home visits were actually quite intrusive. If you refer back to the
policy, Madam Chair, at that time it was incumbent - and it is almost
embarrassing to say this - upon the worker to even check the fridges of the
people who applied for income support, to make sure that they didn't have
sufficient food. It was a very belittling experience.
The department certainly have moved in those areas. In recent years, the
requirement has been that people can apply for income assistance without the
necessity of a home visit. Home visits have not been made for a number of years.
The income support, and a person's application for income support, and whether
or not they receive income support, is an objective decision. The decision is
not based on what food they have in their house, it is based on their level of
income. If a person doesn't reach a certain basic level of income, they are
entitled to income support. Our workers today determine if the people who apply
for income support meet these financial requirements. If a person meets the
financial requirements, they are entitled to receive income support.
Madam Chair, in recent years, and under the previous administration, there
was a model for new service delivery. As part of that new service delivery
model, $3 million was spent on operating a new computer pay system. That
computer pay system, under the former administration, was piloted on the West
Coast of Newfoundland and Labrador. Madam Chair, we are nearing the completion
of that pilot on the West Coast of Newfoundland and Labrador, and, as of June
15, the telephone application process will be initiated. The computer pay system
then, Madam Chair, will be rolled out into other part of the Province with the
next region accessing this service being the Avalon Peninsula.
Madam Chair, I want to make it clear today that the new delivery system that
we are introducing was started by the previous Administration, and for good
reason. The department had changed its role in recent years and we are
responding to that role change.
I also want to talk about some of the shifting demographics in the Province
of Newfoundland and Labrador. We have an aging population. In many areas we do
not have the same number of young people as we had before. It is a fact that
since 1997 the caseload for the Department of Human Resources, Labour and
Employment decreased by approximately 8,500 cases. I would like to note that in
1997 the caseload peaked at 37,000 cases and has been decreased as of last year
- our statistics showed - by 28,500 cases. We have to respond to the shifting
caseload. We have to respond to the changing demographics in Newfoundland and
Labrador.
We had forty-six offices located across the Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador, which were a response to our policies and the fact that we had to do
home visits for every application. Home visits are no longer required. The
caseload has been reduced by over 8,000 cases. It is also noted that last year
50 per cent of new applicants were twenty-nine years of age or younger. What
that means is that we have an abundance of young people coming on the caseload,
despite our changing demographics. These young people are not necessarily in the
more remote areas of Newfoundland and Labrador. What we have to do is address
the needs of this department.
Yesterday in the House of Assembly it was well noted that there is a skills
deficit, and a looming skills deficit, in Newfoundland and Labrador. When we
have approximately 1,800 new cases coming on income support, which represents
people twenty-nine years of age or younger, we need the flexibility to work with
these people to move them from income support into the labour force. I say that
most people who receive income support in this Province do so because they are
in a crisis