Manitoba Hansard — 26 April 2018 (Sitting 41B, 41st Legislature, 3rd Session)

41-3-41b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session – Forty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXI No. 41B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, April 26, 2018 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-First Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP BINDLE, Kelly Thompson PC CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC CURRY, Nic Kildonan PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FLETCHER, Steven, Hon. Assiniboia Ind. FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Clifford Emerson PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake PC JOHNSTON, Scott St. James PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLASSEN, Judy Kewatinook Lib. LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Burrows Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MAYER, Colleen St.

Vital PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REYES, Jon St. Norbert PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples Ind. SCHULER, Ron, Hon. St. Paul PC SMITH, Andrew Southdale PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Gimli PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian, Hon.

Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC YAKIMOSKI, Blair Transcona PC Vacant St. Boniface

1881 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, April 26, 2018 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Madam Speaker: Committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance): I rise to today to table the response to the Order Paper question No. 7, as posed by the member for Assiniboia (Mr. Fletcher) on April 4th, 2018.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade, and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with our rule 26(2). Would the honourable minister please proceed with his statement. National Day of Mourning Hon. Blaine Pedersen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade): Each year, April 28th is recognized as the Day of Mourning for workers killed or injured on the job. In Manitoba we are observing this important day tomorrow, Friday, April 27th.

Day of Mourning is an opportunity to remember the men and women who did not return home safely from work last year. In 2017, 27 Manitobans lost their lives as a result of work -related incidents and occupational diseases. Many more Manitobans were injured severely enough to be permanently injured or off the job for many days. We recognize those who have lost their lives were much more than workers. They were our family members, our friends, our co- workers and our neighbours.

I encourage my colleagues and all Manitobans to participate in the annual Day of Mourning Leaders' Walk, organized by SAFE Workers of Tomorrow. This year's Leaders' Walk will commence at the Union Centre, 275 Broadway, at 10.30 a.m. and proceed to Memorial Park for a ground- breaking ceremony for a workers' –a Manitoba Workers Memorial. The Manitoba Workers Memorial is a significant monument as it will include the names of all fire fighters and peace officers who put their lives on the line to save others.

This memorial will also honour all Manitoba workers who have lost their lives in the pursuit of earning a living to provide for themselves and their families, a sacrifice that no one should ever have to make. As we look to the future of our province and the safety of our workers, I invite all of us to work together. We all share the vision of making our province stronger and that includes making it safer for all workers.

Madam Speaker, I ask that af ter the other members have spoken to the statement, if we could observe a moment of silence in the Chamber to honour the memory of men and women of Manitoba who were injured or killed in the workplace this past year. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Tomorrow, in recognition of the National Day of Mourning, Manitobans, Winnipeggers will walk in solidarity, commemorating the lives lost and recommitting to ensuring that every worker has a safe workplace free from illness and injury.

All Manitobans have the right to come home safe and healthy at the end of every shift. It is saddening that, even with the many requirements that we put in place, workplace fatalities still occur. In 2017 there were 27 workplace fatalities in Manitoba, all of which are preventable. Most recently, in northern Manitoba a man died on the job after being struck in the head while securing a load of steel. One workplace death is one too many. The importance of workplace health and safety cannot be underv alued.

It is our job as MLAs to ensure that legislation is put in place and followed to prevent injury and illness from occurring. Thanks to the hard work of unions and governments that cared, significant progress has been made over the years to protect workers. Continuous

1882 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2018 improvements to workplace health and safety laws are necessary as new issues are identified. Dismantling the advisory council on workplace health and safety, cutting the workplace health and safety department's budget, reducing the number of workplace inspections does not help address these issues. Rather, it demonstrates a priority of cutting costs ahead of workers' safety.

These laws exist because of the blood of Manitoba workers; any reduction in these laws or in inspection–or inspectors who enforce them fails those who've been killed at work and, in fact, all workers. Tomorrow, across the province, walks and memorials will take place in recognition of the Day of Mourning, advocating for safer workplaces and honouring those who hav e died or become ill or injured from workplace -related incidents. I would encourage all members to attend in your own community, as I have done for many years and as I will do on April 28th in my own community of Flin Flon.

Mourn for the dead, Madam Speaker, but let's all fight for the living. Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Madam Speaker, I ask for leave to speak in response to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the statement? [Agreed] Ms. Lamoureux: Today I rise to remember those who lost their lives doing what we all do every day: by going to work. To reiterate what I said this morning during the bill brought forward by the member from Tyndall Park, over 300,000 Manitobans have been injured at work sinc e 2008, and 307 have died.

No family is prepared to hear that their loved one had an accident at work, and these numbers sadly remind us that we need to do better. Worker safety is of the utmost importance because it acts as a preventable measure for our Manitobans. It is also healthy for our economy and our communities. And, Madam Speaker, undermining labour organization is a step in the wrong direction. Government needs to listen to these groups in order to understand what labour needs and how we can address these needs. Tomorrow we will gather with these groups for the ground- breaking of the Manitoba Workers Memorial in Memorial Park.

I invite members of this government to come and hear what labour has to say and make the changes that they have the power to make to ensure that all Manitobans have the opportunity to get home safe to their families and their friends. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is there leave for a moment of silence? [Agreed] Please rise. A moment of silence was observed. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Darryl Ferguson and Cheryl Ferguson Mrs. Sarah Guillemard (Fort Richmond): I rise today to honour two phenomenal individuals who have devoted their lives to helping others through music. Mr.

Darryl Ferguson is a famous trum pet player who has performed with many well -known groups, including the Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra and the Cambridge Brass Quintet. He currently serves as the band director at Acadia junior high school in Fort Richmond. Mrs. Cheryl Ferguson is equally re nowned for her talents on the French horn, having performed with the Winnipeg Wind Ensemble and Cambridge Brass Quintet. Fort Richmond Collegiate is blessed to call her their own as the director of the band program since 2006.

Madam Speaker, I could fill far more than my two minutes just listing all of their musical and academic accomplishments, but what I would like to do today is honour them for their hearts for the youth. Darryl's typical day is spent with hundreds of junior high students at the beginning of their musical learning path. He gently builds the students' performance skills with encouragement through the squeaks and blasts of the first attempts at sound. That alone deserves an award for patience. I have yet to meet a student from Acadia who doesn't list Mr. Ferguson as one of their most favourite and trusted teachers.

Cheryl welcomes the young musicians as they enter into the high school program and pushes them to the next level in personal growth. Band is not just another class with Mrs. F erguson. It is a safe haven and escape from the pressures of the outside world

April 26, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1883 where her students can express their feelings through music. Mrs. Ferguson is affectionately known as Mama Fergie to many of her students for her ability to push them through–push them towards excellence by building them up one joyful smile at a time. These amazing teachers spend their spare time helping students and organizing extracurricular functions, all while raising two wonderful and musical sons, Sam and Nate.

Together, t his dynamic couple has accomplished far more than they could individually, and I want to take this time to thank them personally, in addition to presenting each with a Fort Richmond MLA community hero award. Please join me in acknowledging Darryl and Cheryl Ferguson for their gifts to our youth. * (13:40) Madam Speaker, I ask leave to enter the names of the guests joining us in the gallery today into Hansard. Madam Speaker: Is there leave to include those names in Hansard? [Agreed] Family of Darryl and Cheryl Ferguson: Ed Buettner, Therese Buettner, Nate Ferguson, Sam Ferguson.

Canadian Mennonite University Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I am very pleased to rise in the House today to recognize t he latest development at Canadian Mennonite University in my Tuxedo constituency. I am proud to say that I have a wonderful relationship with CMU over the last 18 years as MLA for Tuxedo. The university truly lives up to its mission to, and I quote, equip women and men for lives of service, leadership and reconciliation in church and society. End quote.

It was for this reason that I was so pleased to join my colleague, the Minister of Education and Training (Mr. Wishart) , earlier this month for the announcement of nearly $420,000 investment toward the CMU Centre for Resilience. The new Centre for R esilience is a 6,500-square-foot space built into the top floor of the former School for the Deaf, a beautiful historic site that is considered an impress ive example of Collegiate Gothic architecture.

The centre will brin g together multiple disciplines, including environmental studies, business, and social innovation to inspire students, faculty and others to take on complex challenges such as climate change and social equality. At the announcement , we were joined by the familiar faces of CMU president , Dr. Cheryl Pauls , and CMU vice- president external , Terry Schellenberg. I was also very pleased to meet James Magnus-Johnston, the visionary director of the centre of resilience. Madam Speaker, I would like to thank both Terry Schellenberg and James Magnus -Johnston for joining us today in the gallery.

They have done an incredible job turning what used to be an aging storage space into an incredible, state -of-the-art learning environment. I wish them, Dr. Pauls and the students of CMU all the best as they foster entrepreneurial leaders who can address the challenges we face as a province today and for future generations. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Bruce Smith and Betty Jackson Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Municipal Relations): Madam Speaker, I rise in the House today to recognize Bruce Smith and Betty Jackson, who are here in the gallery this afternoon.

This hard -working and creative husband- and- wife team have li ved in the village of Dunnottar for the past 23 years. During these years they have dedicated a significant amount of time and effort volunteering in their community. Their efforts have certainly had a positive impact on the community, but they are always quick to remind me that they have had great support from friends, family and neighbours. They were involved in helping establish the Ponemah parade. It all started when five neighbours with convertibles had a Canada Day parade with floats and costumes. The parade has continued for 20 years.

Using a family-owned building, Bruce and Betty established the P onemah Beach Central Art Centre 15 years ago. The Village of Dunnottar recently purchased the building and the committee now operates the art centre. They are also instrumental in startin g the Dunnottar Station Museum. A 1903 former CPR station was bought and set up adjacent to the art centre as the village museum. New buildings were

1884 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2018 put up using original CPR plans. The museum has operated for 12 summers. Madam Speaker, Bruce and Betty have been dedicated volunteers in their community, and I ask all members to join me in recognizing them and thanking them for their hard work and commitment to their community. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Renters in Manitoba Mr. Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, the Pallister government is making life worse, not better, for renters across Manitoba.

Rental units are a very important housing option i n every neighbourhood in my constituency , and in West Broadway alone, over 90 per cent of the homes are rentals. All tenants in Manitoba are being financially squeezed by the Pallister government in several new ways. First, rising utility bills: the Pallister government wants hydro rates to go up–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Altemeyer: –by 70 per cent over the next several years. Their carbon tax will also increase the cost of natural gas used for home heating. We all know these costs are ultimately paid for by tenants.

Secondly, instead of helping Manitobans reduce our bills as utility rates are jacked up, the Pallister government has slammed the breaks on the successful Power Smart programs. Without a single new efficiency program in s ight, landlords who may have been interested in fixing up their buildings now have even less opportunity to do so, and tenants are going to be left paying the bills. Thirdly, c uts to Rent Assist: f or the second year in a row, the Pallister government has made a big cut to the Rent Assist program, this year almost $2 million.

There's apparently money in the government's budget to protect 20 per cent salary increases for the Premier and the minister, and they're bringing three pieces of legislation to make sure the descendants get the money , but there's no money for Rent Assist . A single minimum wage worker is now losing over $1,300 a year and a two - parent family with three kids is losing $2,000 a year. The good news is it doesn't have to be this way.

I recently introduced changes to T he Residential Tenancies Act which would require landlords to reduce utility costs in their buildings before they could get an above -guideline rent increase. I also called for this government to financially help landlords with these retrofits, such as with no-interest pay -as-you-save loans. The Pallister government blocked my bill entirely, missing out on yet another opportunity to create hundreds of new jobs, reduce our emissions and actually save everyone money. Madam S peaker, Manitoba's renters deserve better than this. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

Children's Special Allowances Ms. Judy Klassen (Kewatinook): I wish that the minister could hear th e many life stories of the aged-out CFS young adults in our province. One young child grew up never knowing her identity. After she was taken, her mother fell into a depression. The father kept fighting for his daughter, but was shot down time and time again. He diligently completed all the programs, even though he was not the reason that his daughter was apprehended . Because of t his mounting frustration at the system, he was soon labelled as belligerent. The mother became sick and passed away.

The father was despondent and had no recourse; he couldn't even check his daughter's CFS file due to the unjust labelling. Visits were strained because there was always someone in the room watching their interactions. Let me be clear: she was taken away due to her mother's actions. He was a good father. He , too, ended up passing away before the child tur ned 18. All the family assets did not go to the rightful heir. Aged-out CFS kids are being left on the streets of Winnipeg on their 18th birthday. The phrase this minister used with me was: the NDP dump jobs.

We all know that ties to family are severed while many kids do their hard time as a CFS child. These young adults literally have nothing to help them set out in their life. Most end up doing real hard time as an adult. Minister, we had a discussion about how, in opposition, the PCs fought the NDP to cease this reprehensible act of keeping the Children's Special Allowances as government revenue. Minister, now t his government is rightfully getting sued, and I stand with my people and applaud those leadership s' actions. We need those funds to

April 26, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1885 help our CFS young adults get the supports they need to be productive members. Miigwech. Introduction of Guests Madam Spe aker: Prior to oral questions, we have some guests in the gallery. I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today 13 students from the University of Winnipeg High School Enrichment led by Dr. Allan Diduck and Julia Antonyshyn, who are the guests of the Minister of Sustainable Development (Ms. Squires).

And also in the public gallery from Sisler High School we have 13 grade 9 students under the direction of Mingdi Zhao, and this group is loca ted in the constituency of the honourable member for Burrows (Ms. Lamoureux). On behalf of all members here, we welcome all of you to the Manitoba Legislature. ORAL QUESTIONS Concordia and Seven Oaks Hospitals Request to Stop ER Closures Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, pressure is mounting on the St. Boniface Hospital's emergency room and the Premier's (Mr. Pallister) cuts to health care are making things worse.

We know that his plans to close Concordia's emergency room and the emergency room at Seven Oaks will only send tens of thousands of more patients to St. Boniface each and every year. Now, St. Boniface Hospital is already stressed. We know that the overtime–the mandatory overtime–for nurses there is accruing at an unprecedented level. And when the front -line workers look to this government to listen to them, they find a government that can't even sit down to meet with their partners.

They see a Premier who's broken his promise, clearly, to protect front -line services. * (13:50) So I'd ask the Premier : Will he back off of his misguided plan to close the emergency rooms at Seven Oaks and Concordia? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living ): Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition doesn't want to say it, but he knows, of course, that there's a record level of investment in Health this year. In fact, there is more than a half a billion dollars more being invested in our health- care system in Manitoba this year than there ever was under the NDP government.

He also doesn't want to say, of course, that there is expansion happening within the system. There's expansion happening at the Grace Hospital, the Grace emergency room that's going to be opening next year. I had the opportunity to tour it–or sorry, next month, Madam Speaker –I had the opportunity to tour that just a few days ago. There's also expansion happening at the St. Boniface emergency room, which is going to add significant capacity to that ER, something that this member voted against, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Kinew: The government's own experts, the report that they commissioned themselves, says that what they're doing at St. Boniface Hospital will not be adequate to keep up with the influx of patients who will be sent there if they proceed with this mistake, this plan to close emergency rooms at Concordia and Seven Oaks hospitals. We see what's happened in other parts of the WRHA since they started closing emergency rooms and urgent cares at places like Victoria General and Misericordia. Every month since their plan started, their plan for closures began, wait times have been increasing, Madam Speaker.

We know that the impact on the f ront-line workers, those who care for our friends and family members, is even worse. Nurses are stressed and they take that stress with them when they go to the bedside. So again, I would ask the Premier: Will he back off his plan to close emergency rooms at Seven Oaks and Concordia? Mr. Goertzen : Madam Speaker, every day the Leader of the Opposition stands in this House and defends record-long wait times. Every day he stands in this House and he demands that Manitobans wait longer and longer when it comes to being in ERs.

Every day he stands in the House and he says we shouldn't make any changes, even though we were

1886 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2018 last in the country in virtually every category when it comes to health care. He wants us to remain the last in the country, Madam Speaker. I'm not sure why the Leader of the Opposition is satisfied with last. I'm not sure why he doesn't want Manitobans to get quicker care. I don't know why he doesn't want Manitobans to get the care that they need, when they need it, Madam Speaker, but hi s priorities are all wrong. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Kinew: You know, this government is in such a rush to close emergency rooms and make cuts to health care that they forget that their plan might make things worse. In fact, it already is. We already see the impact of their misguided plans with the increasing wai t times since they started closing emergency rooms, with the mandatory overtime of nurses that's stressing out nurses. They're bringing that to the bedside. It's impacting the quality of care. We know that the nurses just released a report today that said that Manitobans should have more care, not cuts. And yet this government refuses to listen.

They continue to move full steam ahead with the plan to close emergency rooms right here in the city of Winnipeg. Experts are telling them it's not right. Physicians are telling them it's not right. And now the nurses are saying their plan is a mistake as well. Will the Premier (Mr. Pallister) back off his plan to close emergency rooms at Seven Oaks and Concordia? Mr. Goertzen : Madam Speaker, the report that he references is similar to the one that was released in 2014, which the NDP government did nothing to act on. So he says one thing, but they do another.

In fact, when you look generally across the health-care system, we're expanding the Grace emergency room. The funding for that is in this year's budget. That member voted against it. We're expanding the St. Boniface emergency room. The funding's in the budget. He voted against it. We've lowered ambulance fees. The opposition voted against that. We're hiring 60 new paramedics this year. The Leader of the Opposition and all their colleagues voted against that, Madam Speaker.

Over and over, time and time again, we continue to put more investments into the system to make it better, and the Leader of the Opposition votes against it. He's not on the side of Manitobans when it comes to health care, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Vale Canada Layoff Notices Jobs Plan for Thompson Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): What I vote against, Madam Speaker, is this terrible plan to close emergency rooms.

I vote against this government's aggressive austerity and I also voted against a budget that had no plan– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –to keep jobs in the city of Thompson. Now, we heard the confirmation yesterday of some of this bad news that is going to hit one of our northern cities very hard. We knew that there were going to be layoffs as a result of the smelter and refinery being wound down in Thompson, but, still, it hits hard once those really take effect, once you see the human toll that it's going to have on the city of Thompson.

We have raised the issue multiple times with many different Cabin et ministers, with the Premier himself, and still no plan for jobs, no plan to help the city of Thompson, no plan for the long- term future of the North. So I'd ask the Premier today: Will he bring forward a real plan to keep people working in the city of Thompson? Hon. Blaine Pedersen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade): Madam Speaker, speaking of no plans, the former NDP government knew for years of Vale's plans to close the smelter, and yet they did absolutely nothing.

We continue to work with Vale; we continue to work with the city of Thompson. Our economic development will be in Thompson next week and we look forward to having input from the community of Thompson. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: You know, Madam Speaker, we put together a proposal that would help keep jobs at the Vale operation in Thompson. It was one that we designed in consultation with–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –the steelworkers who w ork in those operations. It's one that we designed with the mining

April 26, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1887 industry, they were supportive of. It's one that we shared with the Minister of Finance (Mr. Friesen) prior to the design of his budget. It's an idea that we shared with the Premier (Mr. Pallister) himself. None of them were willing to bring this plan forward and actually work to keep jobs in Thompson. And when we'd go there and we'd speak to the workers who are going to be affected by notices, you know what they tell us?

They say not only will the Cabinet ministers and the Premier refuse to engage with them, but even their own MLA has not reached out to talk to the workers who will be affected. This is not what workers–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –in the North deser ve. It's not what people in Thompson expect, Madam Speaker. When will the Premier bring forward a real plan to keep northern jobs in cities like Thompson? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pedersen : Madam Speaker, the assertion the Leader of the Opposition made about the current member for Thompson (Mr. Bindle) is completely untrue.

No one is working for Thompson harder than the member for Thompson. Madam Speaker, we are working with our indigenous communities across the North on a new mining protocol that will allow mining development to happen. We have our Look North strategy that we continue to work on, and here is the Leader of the Opposition standing up, talking about mining, when he signed the Leap Manifesto that says all natural resources shall stay in the ground. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order, order. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Kinew: Well, you know, Madam Speaker, I'm not surprised that the minister is not well versed on issues like this one. What the Leap actually says is that we should stand up against austerity in all its forms. Now, what's particularly galling about this government is that they claim to be coming up with a plan, but all they have are words on a page. Now, when I met with the mining industry – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –and shared our idea they said, yes, please, that's exactly what we want.

Put together a package that will consider the impact of taxes and hydro and allow us to repay those deferred considerations at a later date when nickel prices rebound. We shared this information with the Minister of Finance. We shared it with the Premier – still no action. All they want to do is convene press conference after press conference, but never, ever come forward with a real plan for jobs. So I'd ask the Premier, yet again, bring us a real plan to keep people working in Thompson. * (14:00) Mr.

Pedersen: Madam Speaker, I'm glad to see the Leader of the Opposition now defends his position on the Leap Manifesto. His other comment, too, is about, well, we should wait for nickel prices to recover. We don't need to wait for nickel prices to recover. We're working with mining and exploration companies right now. They see Manitoba as terrific future for their companies, and we welcome them, unlike what the former NDP government did. Nurses Rally for Patient Care Minister's Attendance Mr.

Andrew Swan (Minto): Madam Speaker, over the lunch hour next Wednesday nurses from every corner of Manitoba and other health- care professionals and others who work in the health- care system will be at the Legislature for a rally for patient care. Will the Minister of Health be there to listen to what they have to say? Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living ): Madam Speaker, not only do we listen to front -line workers, we also 'lishen'–listen to Manitobans, Manitobans who have been wait ing for hundreds of thousands of hours, collectively, in emergency rooms, Manitobans who were waiting for more hours each and every day, each and every year in emergency rooms because the system got worse and worse and worse under the former NDP government over 17 years.

1888 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2018 Absolutely, we're always listening to front -line workers. I've had many, many discussions with those workers to hear what their ideas are, but, unfortunately for the member opposite, he never actually listens to patients, and he may not believe it, but we believe that the health -care system is actually about the patients. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Swan: I asked the minister a very specific question, and I think we know the answer is no, he won't be out there to listen to what nurses from across Manitoba have to say. They released a report on the state of long -term care in Manitoba. They have specific co ncerns regarding staffing in personal -care homes and they tell us the need for more supports for our seniors is growing, yet those supports are getting smaller and smaller. And this year alone this government is cutting money, $2.3 million, from long- term care in Manitoba, even when we know that there are challenges in price and volume.

This is a real cut being made by this government, and nurses are concerned about the impact it's going to have on patients in long-term-care facilities. Why won't this minister meet with them next week when they come to this Legislature to let their views be known? Mr. Goertzen: Well, unlike the member opposite, I don't have to wait for a rally to talk to front -line workers. We're talking to them all the time, Madam Speaker, but not just front-line workers– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr.

Goertzen: –Madam Speaker, not just front -line workers; of course, we're talking to patients, patients who've been waiting for hours to get service. We've heard from members in this House who've waited for hours in an emergency room. We know that the system needed to be fixed. Now, the great defenders of the status quo, the NDP, want Manitobans to believe that we should've just kept doing the same thing that was happening for 17 years, continue to have wait times grow, continue to have people languish and continue to ensure that people aren't getting the service they need. That was their plan.

We're acting on a plan to better the system, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable membe r for Minto, on a final supplementary. Mr. Swan: Unfortunately, this Minister of Health and the members of his caucus aren't listening to what nurses have to say. They ignore what nurses have to say and, as a matter of fact, members of the PC caucus actually mock openly what nurses have to say, whether it's about–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Swan: –whether it's about mandatory overtime, which this Premier (Mr. Pallister) denied occurring, even though nurses told us–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Swan: –that that is at a crisis situation. They ignored what nurses had to say about understaffing of wards and understaffing of units, and even today they continue to think that these issues being raised by nurses are some kind of joke. [interjection] This is not a joke. Nurses in Manitoba are doing their best for Manitoba patients. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Swan: Will this minister meet with Manitoba nurses and listen to what they have to say about health care in the province of Manitoba? Mr.

Goertzen : Madam Speaker, with all due respect, it is hard to take seriously those kinds of accusations from a member who couldn't get along with the very people he worked most closely with in his own caucus. This is a government that listens to those who are on the front lines, it listens to those who are affected by the front lines and it listens to those who are getting service. Ultimately, the health -care system is about the patient. We need to ensure that we have the right staff there to help the patients, Madam Speaker. That is why the system is being properly aligned.

Our focus–yes, we're always concerned about front -line workers and the conditions that they're working under, but our focus will always be and should always be on the service that the patients are getting in the health -care system. That is what the health-care system is about: helping patients, Madam Speaker. Changes to Health-Care Services Impact on Women and Girls Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns ): It's cl ear the Premier's cuts to our health-care system are having a disproportionate impact on women in Manitoba, Madam Speaker. The firing of lactation consultants,

April 26, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1889 the closing of the Mature Women's Centre, the refusal to fully cover the costs of the abortion pill undermines women's health in Manitoba. The Premier (Mr. Pallister) refuses to understand his cuts from within a gendered lens. Will the Premier reverse his cuts which have a disproportionate impact on Manitoba women and girls? Hon.

Rochelle Squires (Minister responsible for the Status of Women ): I can assure the members opposite that we not only looked at the increases to our health-care budget under a gender-based lens, we looked it under a Manitoba lens, and I very much congratulate the Health Mi nister for increasing the budget for health care. In regards to some of the other issues that the member opposite raised, nothing could be further from the truth and our government respects a woman's autonomy to her health and well-being, and we are very proud to be enhancing health- care services for women in the province of Manitoba.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. Ms. Fontaine: The report released by the Manitoba Nurses Union makes clear another aspect to the Premier's cuts, and that is that the vast majority of health-care workers are women, Madam Speaker. When positions are unfilled and when staff are cut, these front -line health -care workers have to work short, as they call it. When sick staff are not replaced, the care these women have to provide is compromised. Why is the Premier ignoring the impact his cuts are having on women health- care workers in Manitoba? Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living ): Madam Speaker, the member fails to realize there's more than a half a billion dollars more being invested in health care today than there ever was under the former NDP government, a government that she served under, and that increase of a half a billion dollars serves all Manitobans. I know that the Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Kinew) a couple of days ago tried to bring forward the vacancy rates that exist within the health-care system for nurses.

I brought to him yesterday the vacancy rates that existed just befo re they left government. Madam Speaker, they were significantly worse. Maybe she wants to have a discussion with the Leader of the Opposition. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary. Ms. Fontaine: We know that women a ctually tend to live longer than men and require more hospitalization over the course of our lives, often due to pregnancies and birthing our children. So when this Premier cuts supports to personal -care homes, it hits women harder.

When the Premier cuts lactation consultants, it hits women harder. We should be investing in front -line health care for women, not cutting it. So will the Premier reverse his cuts to our health-care system and start investing in health care for Manitoba women and girls? Ms.

Squires: The member comes into the House and she feigns concern for women in Manitoba, but I wonder if she used a gender -based lens when they commissioned that inquiry into the misogynistic past of the NDP and then used that as an opportunity to fundraise for her political campaign and used that as an opportunity to sell memberships to these women. I only wish that members opposite would be concerned about all women in this province, including those who have been victimized by her party. * (14:10) Need for Child-Care Spaces Request for Government Investment Mrs.

Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I only wish the women in this House would stand up for other women in Manitoba. The 17–there's over 17,000 children born in this province every year. Manitoba needs more investment in child care more than ever to maintain existing spots and to keep up with demand. The Province's approach to early childhood isn't enough. Why is this government failing our children? Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Families): Investing in early learning and child care is something that we're very proud of.

Our government was–recently made announcements, $47 million, with the federal government in terms of investments in child care. That's going to create thousands of new spaces for Manitoba families.

1890 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2018 We think that's important after we know what happened with the NDP in terms of their approach to child care. They took an ideological approach to child care where they were almost forcing home-based providers out of bus iness because of an ideological approach. We have a balanced approach that's going to mean a difference for Manitoba families. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a supplementary question. Mrs. Smith: That's $47 million from the fe deral government, zero from this province.

The Manitoba Child Care Association has raised concerns about the backlog in child- care spaces which–over 15,000 spaces and just weeks ago–exist– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Mrs. Smith: The minister's own annual report shows that the number of unfunded spaces has nearly doubled in just one year. Communities are prepared to do the work, but this minister is relying solely on $47 million from the federal government to meet these needs. It's not enough. When will this minister start standing up for Manitoba families? Mr.

Fielding : For the opposition to somehow say that we haven't made advancements in terms of unfunded spaces is simply not true. We've funded over 600 new unfunded spaces that were on t he list since taking office. That's an important contribution. There's over 63 centres that are benefiting from the investments we're making on unfunded spaces. That's what I call progress, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a final supplementary. Mrs. Smith: We know that a lot of these spaces are reliant on these schools being built, so those families are waiting and waiting and waiting.

The number of spaces has hardly changed– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Smith: –according to this minister's own report. The minister's funding for both home -based and centre-based child care are not keeping up. It's clear that this government is considering other options. So I ask the minister: Is he considering providing additional funding for profit centre home-based daycares? Mr. Fielding : In Manitoba there's a variety of sources of people –how they take care of their children. There's people that choose to stay home and parent their children as well, and that's a de cision that people make.

We have taken a balanced approach in terms of addressing child care. We're not going to take an ideological approach where the NDP tried to run out–run the home -based providers out of business here in the province of Manitoba by a reduction of over 29 per cent since they were there. We're taking a balanced approach. We're making investments. We're creating affordable child -care spaces with the federal government and Manitoba families. We think that's important investments to be made. North End and Interlake Residents Accessible ORs and ICUs Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Madam Speaker, closing ICUs and ORs in the North End of Winnipeg without having a clear, transparent plan to address the immediate impact is causing patients and front-line staff unnecessary stress. Will the minister consider keeping open an OR and ICU that will be easily accessible to the residents of Winnipeg north and those of the Interlake -eastern health authority? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living): Well, Madam Speaker, my friend from Burrows may believe that waiting for hours and hours in an emergency room is an easy accessibility, but it's not.

Yes, you might be able to get into the door, but waiting for 10 hours is not the kind of care that you need. There needed to be transformation within the health-care system. That was confirmed by the NDP's hand-picked consultant, Madam Speaker, that laid out a plan that has been done in other places like Vancouver and Calgary and Edmonton and Hamilton and Ottawa, all of which had better wait times than Manitoba has over the last 20 years. We've seen an improvement on wait times, which is better access, which is better care, and we look forward to more improvements, Madam Speaker.

April 26, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1891 Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows, on a supplementary question. Intensive Care Units Staff Retention Concerns Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): The impact of ICU consolidation will create immense pressure to our front -line workers. The minister admitted that communication needs to be improved, yet the concern of being left in the dark by this government only continues to grow. The Manitoba Nurses Union has recently expressed the consequences that this uncertainty has created towards st aff morale as well as difficulties retaining staff.

The ICU is a highly specialized work environment. How does this minister plan to address this staff retention issue? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living ): Madam Speaker, we know that, ultimately, when you build a health- care system that it is more responsive to the patients which is –ultimately is what this is about, it also betters the working 'environming' for those who are working in the system.

So when nurses and doctors are working in a system that they can actually meet the demands of the patients and they can meet them in a way that is quick and meet them in the way that they need to be met, Madam Speaker, it is better for everyone working in the system and, of c ourse, for those who need the system as patients.

So bettering the system as we are doing, as we will continue to do with the plan and the consultant's plan from the hand- picked consultant of the NDP, it'll make it better for the patients and for those who are working in the system, who ultimately want to help those that they're there to support. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows, on a final supplementary. Seven Oaks Hospital Timeline for Closure Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Nurses and other front -line staff have continued to voice concerns over the lack of transparency that this government has provided in light of their direct cuts to critical health-care services. I'm thinking specifically about the future of Seven Oaks h ospital because that's where the majority of my constituents go. Last week the minister was non-responsive to my question. So I would like to ask it again: Can this minister provide a definitive date on phase 2 of the closures to Seven Oaks hospital?

Madam Speaker: Prior to having the minister answer that I would just–again, in the last number of days I have been asking for co- operation of all members in respectfully listening to the questions and answers that are being raised. I don't think heckling somebody in a continuous manner is going to further democracy or provide for anything better in this Chamber. I would ask for everybody's co- operation, and I would actually ask the Minister of Infrastructure (Mr. Schuler), as well, to please heed the request s that I have made on numerous occasions. Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living ): I did respond to this member and other members, last week, in terms of when we expect to hear back from the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority on the implementation of phase 2. When we last heard from the member for Burrows when it comes to her plans for health care in Manitoba, she said we should look to Ontario and what they're doing. So I did that, and I pulled up an

article from a week ag o from Dr. Kulvinder Gill who's president of concerned doctors Ontario, who said: We are in the midst of the worst health -care crisis in Ontario that we've ever seen. It is the result of years of complete and utter neglect and gross mismanagement of our once-great health-care system under the Liberal government. Madam Speaker, that's what she wants us to follow. We're on a better path. Community Development Programs Funding Announcement Mrs. Colleen Mayer (St.

Vital): Our government has been strongly committed to supporting community and non- profit organizations across Manitoba, Madam Speaker. In fact, Budget 2018 includes over $20 million in support of community development programs. In the 2018 intake for community development program applications, which started today, can the Minister of Municipal Relations update the House on what types of projects are supported through this funding?

1892 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2018 And I just want to note, Madam Speaker, for all members in the House, that unlike the previous government, how they used to operate by taking a political donation or a party membership, that is not what is a prerequisite under this government's plan. * (14:20) Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Municipal Relations): I was pleased that the Minister responsible for Status of Women joined me at our announcement today. One of our key priorities, Madam Speaker, will focus on supports for vulnerable women.

We also announced that AMM is now involved in the evaluation process to ensure that community benefits are maximized at the local level. We recently announced no -wrong-door policy for anyone in government to report incidents of workplace harassment. Working–we're working to make workplaces safer to the municipal level, and today's announcement is yet another example of this government–is making a real progress in support of vulnerable women. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Solar Energy Industry Government Position Mr.

Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): I recently had the pleasure of having a phone conversation with a local green entrepreneur–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Altemeyer: –someone who came to this province to create green jobs for local Manitobans. I'd like to table one of the comments he shared with me for the House's benefit. He said, quote: In less than a week, Manitoba will go from the best province in Canada for solar energy to the worst. That quote comes from Mr. Riley Unger, spokesperson for Living Skies Solar Inc. I wonder if this government has any answer to Mr.

Unger and the hundreds of other people working in the solar industry right now where this government is about to kill their industry outright. Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Crown Services): Just for the member's information, Manitoba Hydro entered into a program regarding solar energy. In fact, that program was quite successful, in fact, oversubscribed by the tune about 700 per cent. So, certainly, a lot of Manitobans are benefiting from that particular pilot program, and, Madam Speaker, that's exactly what it was, a pilot program. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question.

Mr. Altemeyer: Well, only the Pallister government could look at a fantastic success story like that and decide to kill it. The other very concerning thing about this, Madam Speaker, is the message from this government may not line up with the truth when it comes to the future of solar energy in Manitoba. This minister and others have said repeatedly that Efficiency Manitoba, which does not exist, has no board, has no budget, has no staff, is somehow going to make a decision at some point in time on what to do about solar energy.

Can the minister tell me how many times the word solar appears in the legislation that created Efficiency Manitoba? Mr. Cullen : I think the member knows we're in transition to Efficiency Manitoba, and hopefully he did read the legislation and that legislation talks about Efficiency Manitoba –in fact, the government of Manitoba consulting with Manitobans. There's legislation around stakeholder involvement. So Efficiency Manitoba and the government of Manitoba will be consulting with stakeholders as it moves forward in developing programs.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a final supplementary. Mr. Altemeyer: Well, I feel kind of bad about doing this. Here's where the shoe drops for the minister: solar energy–the word solar –is not mentioned even once in the Efficiency Manitoba legislation.

How on earth can this minister and this government go around to the solar industry and say there will be a decision made by Efficiency Manitoba about the very future of the great work that you are doing, the great jobs that you are creating, the Manitobans that you are supporting, when there is no mandate for solar energy work under the legislation this government brought in on Efficiency Manitoba? I brought in an amendment which would have switched that, but the government did not even listen to the amendment. They voted it out of hand.

This government is mislead ing the solar industry and saying they have the mandate to make– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired.

April 26, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1893 Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sustainable Development): Well, Madam Speaker, the members opposite talk a good talk, but we know on environment they failed in every –every–category. They failed to bring out a –any meaningful plan to reduce carbon emissions and convert to a low-carbon future during the 17 years that they were in government, and they continue to do so with the delaying of our bill. And I would really like some consistency coming from members opposite, but that's probably too much to ask.

They have petitioned for no carbon price, they have petitioned for $50 price on carbon and now they're petitioning for a $300 price on carbon. Unlike the members opposite, the one thing that they are consistent on is saying that they will take all of that money, a hundred per cent of the money. I'd like to table Hansard from last –few weeks ago when the members opposite said, let us contr ol all the money. Well, that didn't work out so well for Manitobans in the past, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. [interjection] Order. Concordia Hospital ER Timeline for Closure Mr.

Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Residents of Concordia are watching as their health-care system is taken apart piece by piece. The wait times task force was clear that the–with Concordia closed, other hospitals like St. Boniface don't have the capacity to accommodate the increased number of patients. Patients are raising their concerns. Workers are telling me that they're concerned with all the uncertainty. And the minister has had multiple opportunities in this question period alone to just tell the public: When is the hospital at –the emergency roo m at Concordia Hospital going to close? Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living ): The member opposite refers to the wait times task force, which was looking for expanding capacity at St. Boniface emergency room. We're deliver ing on that. There was a tender that went out. The tender was awarded and you'll soon see construction at the St. Boniface emergency room as we expand the capacity, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wiebe: Madam Speaker, residents of Concordia are deeply concerned.

The wait times task force was clear that closing Concordia is going to put massive stress on other hospitals like St. Boniface. In fact, it was the Premier (Mr. Pallister) himself who said that, quote: The report that was just done evaluating some of the challenges in terms of changes that have been occurring should not be ignored. But instead of withdrawing his order, the minister is carrying on, and, worse yet, he's playing games with the timeline and not telling the public and creating more confusion by not telling them when the hospital ER at Concordia will close.

So I'm just asking the minister: Will he tell my constituents, will he tell the people of northeast Winnipeg, will he tell Manitobans when will he close the Concordia Hospital ER? Mr. Goertzen : Madam Speaker, in fact, the wait times task force was listened to and that is why we're expanding capacity at the St. Boniface Hospital. That work will begin soon and in about a month we're going to open the new expanded Grace emergency room. There's expansion happening in emergency rooms all over Manitoba, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Wiebe: Madam Speaker, workers at Concordia tell me that they have concerns about the closure of that ER. They tell me that the government's plan has caused chaos and confusion in the health- care system. Worse yet, even they are not being given the information fr om this government about when the emergency room will clo se, something that the Premier acknowledged in Estimates was a major problem.

So I ask the minister again if he could give us a timeline, if he could give us a date, if he could just tell those fron t-line workers who are trying to provide good care to the people of Manitoba: When will the Concordia Hospital emergency room close? Mr. Goertzen : Madam Speaker, confusion in a system is caused when people have to wait hours and hours in an emergency room . It was the NDP's hand-picked consultant who recognized it needed to be changed and we're acting on that change.

1894 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2018 Budget 2018 Progress Update Mr. James Teitsma (Radisson): During the last election, just over two years ago, we went to the doors of Manitobans. We promised Manitobans that a PC government would fix the finances of this province. We promised Manitobans that a PC government would repair the services of this province and rebuild the economy of this province. The rest is history. Manitobans elected a PC government with a historic majority unseen in generations. Now, we know that Manitobans are behind us.

We know that they're behind our legislative agenda – [interjection]–and, in fact, even the NDP, as they laugh, seem to be on board since jus t–was it last night? They passed two thirds –the night before they passed two thirds of our legislation without even opposing it. So can the Minister of Finance remind us all of the progress that we have made to date and how our PC government is keeping and fulfilling our promises– * (14:30) Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance): I thank the member for Radisson. Finally, a budget question.

It's been six weeks and my critic has still yet to ask a budget question, so I assume he's still experiencing turbulence, and the seat belt is on. But in any case, Madam Speaker, what's not to like about Budget 2018: record tax cuts; record investments in health care, education; five new schools; a conservation trust. Madam Speaker, we are keeping our promises. We are making progress on behalf of all Manitobans. We are only getting started, and together we will make Manitoba Canada's most improved province. Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS Tina Fontaine–Public Inquiry Mrs.

Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order, please. Mrs. Smith: These are the reasons for this petition.

(1) Tina Fontaine was murdered at the age of 15 years, and her body was found in the Red River on August 17, 2014.

(2) Tina Fontaine was robbed of her loving family and the Anishinabe community of Sagkeeng First Nation.

(3) Tina was failed by multiple systems which did not protect her as they intervened in her life.

(4) Tina Fontaine was further failed by systems meant to seek and pursue justice for her murder.

(5) Tina Fontaine's murder galvanized Canada on the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, MMIWG, as she quickly became our collective daughter and the symbol of MMIG across Canada.

(6) Manitoba has failed to fully implement the recommendations of numerous reports and recommendations meant to improve and protect the lives of indigenous peoples and children, including the Manitoba Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, Royal Commission on Aboriginal People and the Phoenix Sinclair inquiry. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Premier of Manitoba and the Minister of Justice to immediately call a public inquiry into the systems that had a role in the life and death of Tina Fontaine, as well as the function of administration of justice after her death.

(2) To urge that the terms of reference of a public inquiry be developed jointly with the caregivers of Tina Fontaine and/or the agent appointed by them. Signed by Kelly Dennison, Rick McDougall, Darryl Ramkissoon and many other Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The petition was not read as printed. Is there leave to accept the petition as printed? [Agreed] TO THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA: These are the reasons for this petition. 1. Tina Fontaine was murdered at the age of 15 years and her body was found in the Red River on August 17, 2014.

April 26, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1895 2. Tina Fontaine was robbed of her loving family and the Anishinaabe community of Sagkeeng First Nation. 3. Tina Fontaine was failed by multiple systems which did not protect her as they intervened in her life. 4. Tina Fontaine was further failed by systems meant to seek and pursue justice for her murder. 5. Tina Fontaine's murder galvanized Canada on the issue of Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls (MMIWG) as she qui ckly became our collective daughter and the symbol of MMIWG across Canada. 6.

Manitoba has failed to fully implement the recommendations of numerous reports and recom - mendations meant to improve and protect the lives of Indigenous Peoples and children inc luding the: Manitoba Aboriginal Justice Inquiry; Royal Commission on Aboriginal People; and the Phoenix Sinclair Inquiry. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: 1. To urge the Premier of Manitoba and the Minister of Justice to immediately call a Public Inquiry into the systems that had a role in the life and death of Tina Fontaine as well as the function of the administration of justice after her death. 2.

To urge that the terms of reference of a Public Inquiry be developed jointly wi th the caregivers of Tina Fontaine and/or the agent appointed by them. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule, 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns ): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition.

(1) Tina Fontaine was murdered at the age of 15 years, and her body was found in the Red River on August 17, 2014.

(2) Tina Fontaine was robbed of her loving family and the Anishinabe community of Sagkeeng First Nation.

(3) Tina Fontaine was failed by multiple systems which did not protect her as they intervened in her life.

(4) Tina Fontaine was further failed by systems meant to seek and pursue justice for her murder.

(5) Tina Fontaine's murder galvanized Canada on the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, MMIWG, as she quickly became our collective daughter and the symbol of MMIWG across Canada.

(6) Manitoba has failed to fully implement the recommendations of numerous reports and recommendations meant to improve and protect the lives of indigenous peoples and children, including the Manitoba Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples and the Phoenix Sinclair inquiry. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Premier of Manitoba and the Minister of Justice to immediately call a public inquiry into the systems that had a role in the life and death of Tina Fontaine, as well as the function of the administration of justice after her death.

(2) To urge that the terms of reference of a public inquiry be developed jointly with the caregivers of Tina Fontaine and/or the agent appointed by them. Signed by Dorothy Fontaine, Angie Hutchinson and Mia Sally Correia and many, many more Manitobans. Twinning Leila Avenue Mr. Mohinder Saran (The Maples): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the follow petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The residents of The Maples community have diverse needs, such as the issue of twinning Leila Avenue, which was raised with the previous minister responsible for Municipal Relations.

(2) The residents of The Maples appreciate that Leila Avenue is a City of Winnipeg, city, responsibility, but the new Minister of Municipal Relations has not complied with requests to ask the City to make twinning this city –this road a priority, even though the provincial government provides the City with its share for funding such projects.

(3) Leila Avenue is the main road to approach the Seven Oaks hospital and one extra lane would

1896 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2018 ease the traffic that has been created by a corresponding increase in population in the area.

(4) The Maples residents are frustrated because both the City and the provincial government do not treat infrastructure developments in the north Winnipeg equally with those in the south. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to request that the City twin Leila Avenue to reduce traffic and commute time for the residents of The Maples and surrounding areas, enabling the accessing of timely health services, which will contribute to both the economy and society. Signed by many Manitobans. Madam Speaker: Grievances?

ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) Speaker's Statement Madam Speaker: I have a statement for the House. I'm advising the House that I've received a letter from the member for Assiniboia (Mr. Fletcher) indicating that he ha s identified Bill 208, The Conflict of Interest Act, as his one selected bill for this session.

As a reminder to the House, subrule 24(2) allows each independent member to select one private member's bill per session to proceed to a second reading vote a nd, despite rule 69(1), an independent member will not require a seconder to move the second reading motion for their selected private member's bill. The member for Assiniboia has therefore advised that the question will be put on second reading of Bill 208 on Thursday May 17th, 2018 at 10:55 a.m. GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon.

Cliff Cullen (Government House Leader): On House business, I would like to announce that the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development will meet on Monday, M ay 7th, 2018 at 6 p.m. to consider the following: Bill 3, the Canadian Free Trade Agreement implementation act, Labour Mobility Act and regulated health professionals act amended; Bill 10, The Boards, Committees, Councils and Commissions Streamlining A ct (Various Acts Amended or Repealed); and Bill 15, The Film and Video Classification and Distribution Act.

Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development will meet on Monday, May 7th, 2018 at 6 p.m. to consider the following: Bill 3, the Canadian Free Trade Agreement implementation act, Labour Mobility Act and Regulated Health Professions Act amendment –amended; Bill 10, The Boards, Committees, Councils and Commissions Streamlining Act (Various Acts A mended or Repealed); Bill 15, The Film and Video Classification and Distribution Act. * (14:40) And, just for the information of members of the House, we are looking into the –what has happened with the lighting in the House.

And we have been advised that all lights and power are being affected in the building and that for the current time a remedy is beyond someone's control. So it is not just the Chamber. So, if we can continue on, we'll do our best. Mr. Cullen : Further House business, Madam Speaker.

I would like to announce the Standing Committee on Justice will meet on Tuesday, May 8th, 2018, at 6 p.m., to consider the following: Bill 4, The Legislative Assembly Amendment Act (Member Changing Parties); Bill 11, The Safe and Responsible Retailing of Ca nnabis Act (Liquor and Gaming Control Act and Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries Corporation Act Amended); and Bill 25, The Non- Smokers Health Protection and Vapour Products Amendment Act (Prohibiting Cannabis Consumption in Outdoor Public Places); and Bill 26, The Impaired Driving Offences Act (Various Acts Amended).

Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the Standing Committee on Justice will meet on Tuesday, May 8th, 2018, at 6 p.m., to consider the following: Bill 4, The Legislative Assembly Amendment Act (Member Changing Parties); Bill 11, The Safe and Responsible Retailing of Cannabis Act (Liquor and Gaming Control Act and Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries Corporation Act Amended); Bill 25, The Non- Smokers Health Protection and Vapour Products Amendment Act (Prohibiting Cannabis Consumption in Outdoor Public Places); and Bill 26, The Impaired Driving Offences Act (Various Acts Amended).

April 26, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1897 Mr. Cullen : On further House business, Madam Speaker, I'd like to announce the Standing Committee on Human Resources will meet on Tuesday, May 8th, 2018, at 6 p.m., to consider the following: Bill 5, The Public Interest Disclosure (Whistleblower Protection) Amendment Act; Bill 6, The Public Sector Compensation Disclosure Amendment Act; Bill 20, The Employment Standar ds Code Amendment Act (2); and Bill 23, The Commodity Futures Amendment and Securities Amendment Act.

Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the Standing Committee on Human Resources will meet on Tuesday, May 8th, 2018, at 6 p.m., to consider the fol lowing: Bill 5, The Public Interest Disclosure (Whistleblower Protection) Amendment Act; Bill 6, The Public Sector Compensation Disclosure Amendment Act; Bill 20, The Employment Standards Code Amendment Act (2); and Bill 23, The Commodity Futures Amendment and Securities Amendment Act. Mr.

Cullen : Additional House business, Madam Speaker, I'd like to announce that the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs will meet on Wednesday, May 9th, 2018, at 6 p.m., to consider the following: Bill 7, The Sustainable Watersheds Act (Various Acts Amended); Bill 9, The Community Child Care Standards Amendment Act (Enhanced Powers Respecting Governance and Accountability); Bill 14, The Traffic and Transportation Moderni zation Act; Bill 17, The Drivers and Vehicles Amendment and Highway Traffic Amendment Act; Bill 18, The Child and Family Services Amendment Act (Taking Care of Our Children); and Bill 22, The Queen's Counsel Act.

Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs will meet on Wednesday, May 9th, 2018, at 6 p.m., to consider the following: Bill 7, The Sustainable Watersheds Act (Various Acts Amended); Bill 9, The Community Child Care Standards Amendment Act (Enhanced Powers Respecting Governance and Accountability); Bill 14, The Traffic and Transportation Modernization Act; Bill 17, The Drivers and Vehicles Amendment and Highway Traffic Amendment Act; Bill 18, The Child and Family Services Amendment Act (Taking Care of Our Children); and Bill 22, The Queen's Counsel Act. Mr.

Cullen : I'd also like to announce that the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development will meet on Wednesday, May 9th, 2018, at 6 p.m., to consider Bill 19, The Planning Amendment Ac t (Improving Efficiency in Planning). Madam Speaker: It has also been announced that the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development will meet on Wednesday, May 9th, 2018, at 6 p.m., to consider Bill 19, The Planning Amendment Act (Improving E fficiency in Planning). * * * Mr. Cullen : Madam Speaker, would you call Committee of Supply?

Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will consider Estimates this afternoon. The House will now resolve itself in the Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) FINANCE * (14:50) Madam Chairperson (Sarah Guillemard): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Finance, including Crown Services. As previously agreed, questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner. Does the honourable minister have an opening statement? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Crown Services): I do. Madam Chairperson: The honourable minister. Mr. Cullen: Thank you, Madam Chair, honourable colleagues, procedural authorities from the Clerk's office. I am pleased to be here today to present the 2018-2019 Estimates f or the Department of Crown Services.

I will be introducing staff in a few minutes when they come to the table, but I do want to commend them for their hard work and dedication in support of Crown Services here in Manitoba.

1898 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2018 As you know, there've been man y changes to government operations since April 2016, when our government achieved success. In fact, the Department of Crown Services, bringing all Crown corporations under the jurisdiction of just one office, is a new department altogether. The ministe r's office of Crown Services includes a total of seven full -time equivalents and $54,000 in operating expenses, including the minister and deputy minister. This includes one vacancy that is being actively managed.

All FTEs and accompanying staffing dollar s were transferred from other departments as part of the government's reorganization. On the topic of reorganization, I'd like to take a moment to thank those of the Crown Services Secretariat. The purpose of the new secretariat is to develop and im plement policy and provide regulatory oversight for Manitoba's Crown corporations and to advise the Minister of Crown Services regarding the position of Manitoba's Crown corporations in relation to the government's own stated goals, objectives and performance measures.

The essential changes are: dissolving the council means a board is no longer necessary, as the former functions of the council are brought in- house to government. By dissolving the council and creating the secretariat, there is a net savings to both budget and salary expenditures going forward. The secretariat's budget is annualized as part of the annual Estimates process, and offsetting revenue is annualized from the Crown corporations.

The secretariat is also responsible for creating and providing training programs for members appointed to government-affiliated boards. * (15:00) The total budget for the secretariat is now five FTEs with $527,000 in salaries and benefits and $180,000 in other requirements. As indicated in our speeches from the throne and budget speeches, this government is committed to getting Manitoba back on a responsible fiscal track and to protecting front-line services. As part of our commitment to fiscal responsibility, we introduced legislation to repeal the crown co rporation public review and accountability act.

This old legislation was antiquated, lacked clarity, and did not adequately reflect my mandate as the Minister of Crown Services. A lack of a clear governance framework left the Crowns vulnerable to political interference, which unduly influenced the work of the board and the Crown in pursuit of their 'fiducirary' and commercial responsibilities. In fact, we find ourselves today in many inherited messes created by the former government due to the inadequacies of the former legislation and misdirection by legislators.

The Crown Corporations Governance and Accountability Act (1) established a governance model based on a defined accountability system and clear accountability relationships, (2) established a boar d accountability requirements, (3) introduces minister–the mandate letters to the Crown corporations, (4) dissolved the Crown Corporations Council and implemented a secretariat model within government, and (5) provides for policy directives to be issued by the minister and the department.

As outlined in my mandate letter, our government also made a decision to create new arm's-length entity tasked with promoting energy efficiency and energy conservation in Manitoba. The Efficiency Manitoba Act successfully accomplishes this task by creating Efficiency Manitoba, whose mandate is to reduce the impact of future rate increases, defer the need for expensive new energy supplies, create new employment and business opportunities, and improve the competitiveness of Manitoba businesses. Ironically, the NDP promised to create energy-efficiency entity themselves but failed to do so.

Sadly, this is very similar to the NDP government missing every one of their self -imposed efficiency reduction targets. As the Minister of Crown Services, I will continue to ensure that Crown corporations are accountable to the people of Manitoba and the high quality of service Manitoba –Manitobans expect is delivered. We have lots to be proud of and have achieved many successes in many short months, and I'm proud of the dedicated work of our government, civil servants, and Crown corporations. We have ushered in a successful new regime of ride sharing in Manitoba, as promised in our election platform.

We are well underway to formally establish Efficiency Manitoba, and we have engaged and empowered our Crown corporations to reduce expenditures while improving the customer service experience.

April 26, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1899 Although there is much more work to be done and many more achievements to realize, I'm pleased to present and review the Department of Crown Services 2018-2019 Estimates of Expenditure. With this, I wish to conclude my opening statement, and I look forward to the questions regarding these estimates. Thank you. Madam Chairperson: We thank the minister. Does the critic have an opening statement? Mr.

Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Just a very brief opening statement just to tell the minister that we look forward to having a fulsome discussion and getting, really, the information that Manitobans need out there. Some of the things that he's talked about in his opening statement, I' m sure we'll delve into in more detail to try and flush out so that we all have a good understanding of everything under this minister's purview as the Crown Services Minister. So, without further ado, that's it. Madam Chairperson: We thank the critic. The floor is now open for questions–oh, sorry.

At this time, we invite the minister's staff to join us at the table, and we ask that the minister would introduce the staff in attendance. Mr. Cullen: Joining me today is Grant Doak, deputy minister of the department; Rob Marrese, executive director; Inga Rannard, senior financial officer, and David Safruk, special assistant, Crown Services. Madam Chairperson: The floor is now open for questions. Mr.

Lindsey: Let me first take this opportunity to welcome the minister's staff, and I look forward to you providing him the information that will allow us all to move on, and I'm sure you will endeavour to do your best to make the minister look good; could be a challenge. So, just in your opening statement, you talked about your department having seven FTEs, one vacancy and a certain budget, and then, further on, you talked about the secretariat having five FTEs and a different budget number.

So you could you just kind of go over exactly what groups you were referring to there when you were talking in your opening statement? Mr. Cullen : Sure, I'll try to walk the member through the organization here, if I can. So, in my office, in the minister's office, there is four staff. And in the deputy's office, there's the deputy and one staff. And then in the secretariat itself there's five staff. Mr.

Lindsey: So if the minister could perhaps just go back to his opening statement, where he talked about one part having seven FTEs, did that include the five in the secretariat, or were those two completely separate entities? Mr. Cullen : Yes, that includes the five in the secretariat. Mr. Lindsey: So the secretariat budget –and is this just for salaries, the $520,000? Mr. Cullen : Yes, that's salaries and operating dollars. Salaries and operating dollars. Mr. Lindsey: So then, when you talked about the overall budget of $540,000, that includes that $520,000? Mr.

Cullen: Yes, for the member's information, the secretariat, the line item for salaries is $527,000. And the operating line is $180,000. * (15:10) Mr. Lindsey: So that's for the secretariat. So then overall, you talked about–in your opening statement– of a budget of 540,000. Mr. Cullen : So to clarify, then, the operating expenses in the minister's office and the deputy minister's office is $54,000. Mr. Lindsey: So, in your opening statement where you talked about it –was $54,000, not $540,000. I was– Mr. Cullen: That's correct.

It should be $54,000 for operating expenses in the minister and deputy minister's office. Maybe I misspoke earlier. Mr. Lindsey: I may have misheard. As long as we clear it up, that's the important thing. Okay, so we'll move on from that. So can you give us a better update on the implementation of The Crown Corporations and Governance Accountability Act? I know you touched on it in your opening statement, but perhaps some more detail on that.

1900 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2018 Mr. Cullen: I appreciate the question, the chance to talk about a relatively new piece of legislation here in Manitoba. So what the act does –it's really a framework piece of legislation. So it establishes the governance model based on a defined accountability system and clear accountability relations hips. It establishes board accountability requirements, and we also have ministerial mandate letters, and this is new to Crown corporations.

As part of that legislation, the –as I mentioned earlier, the Crown Corporations Council was dissolved, and we brought forward the new secretariat model within government. And the legislation also provides for policy directives to be issued by the minister and the department. So I will say this is an ongoing work that the Crown Services does and the secretariat does i n working with the Crown corporations. I know there was an initial mandate letter provided to the Crown corporations by the previous minister.

We're also, at this point in time, considering the option of providing new mandate letters to the Crown corporations. So we're having discussions with the Crown corporations as we move forward in that regard. We’re also discussing roles and responsibilities, both as the minister, the secretariat and the Crown corporations. How those relationships will go forward, who's responsible for what and which –each position, what role they have and their respective responsibilities as well. So there's the roles and responsibilities component that's, you know, ongoing as well.

This legislation, as I mention, does provide the opportunity for the minister and department to provide directives to the Crown corporations relative to specific programs or situations as well. So it's an ongoing dialogue that we have with the Crown corporations in this regard. Obviously, we're working within the new framework that we've developed under this legislation. Ultimately, this framework provides some structure, provides an oversight mechanism as well, and I think as we work through the process, I think we're finding it works pretty well.

I t hink it's also, I may say, we certainly try to meet with the Crown corporations on a regular basis, certainly, me as minister, with the board chairs and the deputy primarily with the CEOs of the respective boards. And obviously, the secretariat has quite a bit of interaction with management –various management levels within the corporations as well. Mr. Lindsey: So just very briefly, perhaps the minister could explain to me the difference between what this new secretariat is and does and what the previous council did? Mr. Cullen : Sure.

So the previous council was, I guess, primarily responsible for training, assisting training of board members. There was, you know, very little what I would call oversight with the council, and no direct reporting mechanism to the minister. So under the secretariat model, it's still responsible for training of the board members, but it's our intent to step up that training for board members to make sure that they're adequately trained and ready for the responsibilities that they are giving–given.

And I think the secretariat as well, in terms of the oversight and interaction with the Crowns, I think we've increased that ability to have that communication. And then, obviously, the secretariat has a direct reporting mechan ism right to the deputy and the minister. So a little better, I would say, oversight in that regard. * (15:20) Mr. Lindsey: So basically, two different entities but the same duties and performance. You talked about the council was there to train board mem bers, but you felt there was some kind of lack of oversight or reporting back to the minister.

The new secretariat trains board members and has some kind of oversight and direct report to the minister. So really and truly they're both basically the same thing. So, if you could explain why the change, what did it accomplish, because it appears to be merely a change in name. Mr. Cullen: Yes, I think the new secretariat actually is more streamlined. In fact, going this way, we've reduced the budget by about $180,000 a year. I think probably less political interference under the new system as well. I think –and the intent is to provide sort of the oversight to the Crown corporations as well.

We think this new format provides that better oversight. Obvious ly the, you know, the legislation–that's the heart of the legislation was to make sure there was the accountability component so that everyone knew what–knows what their roles and responsibilities are.

April 26, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1901 And I think this is a direct avenue for the Crown corporations to deal directly with the minister as well. Mr. Lindsey: So, if the minister could perhaps explain how many people were involved with the council that was in place versus how many people, how many FTEs, that type of nature, are involved now with this secretariat. Mr. Cullen: Right. So for the member's information, under the old system, there was five members in the council, but there was also four directors associated with the respective department who had oversight for those Crowns.

So, if you look at it that way, nine positions associated with the previous council, and as we stated before, we're down to five positions now. Mr. Lindsey: So then, really, this was about reducing the number of people that were involved in that aspect because based on your earlier comments, the two entities do basically the same thing, just with less people now. Is that correct? Mr. Cullen: Yes, if you look at it, it was kind of a cumbersome system. You know, we had the council over here, but we also had the four directors within the department who were responsible for Crown corps as well.

So I think by sort of reducing the numbers and then streamlining them into one secretariat, it streamlines the process. And there's the accountability piece, obviously; the timeliness in terms of reporting. So I think there –it's a positive step forward. Mr. Lindsey: So people that were there on the council that was five, how did they get appointed to those positions as opposed to people on the secretariat? Is it a different process, that? Mr. Cullen : Yes, so the council was actually an agency or Crown on it–of its own. So having its own hiring and firing practices.

So there was no real government oversight per se. So, by bringing the secretariat under the government, we now have government oversight in terms of the secretariat and more of a direct relationship between the Crowns and government, and, you know, I think that provides better clarity around that. And obviously the –in conjunction with mandate letters, roles and responsibilities, I think that clarifies the relationship between the government and Crowns. Mr.

Lindsey: So, previously, the council was more of a separate entity that really precluded any kind of government interference because the government couldn't appoint the members to it, they didn't really have control over it,

whereas now, with the secretariat, the government has control in the fact that, through the hiring process, you get kind of a say in–the minister or the department gets kind of a say in who's in those roles. Mr. Cu llen: I think it's important to spell out the accountability process that we have in place. I think this is very important. So we've established a structure where, you know, the minister will deal with the chair of the board, deputy ministers will deal with the CEOs of the corporations. So there's a structure there.

We have laid out our roles and responsibilities that each of us as –in each position are responsible for. We can also provide mandate letters in terms of general mandate and we can also provide directives, more –around specific programs and so forth. Under the previous government, it left it open for political interference and direct political staff going to CEOs or board members. So there was no real governance model in place. So it really left it dead open for political interference in Crowns. Mr.

Lindsey: I guess I'm not quite grasping how it leads to less political interference, when the previous council was really an entity unto itself, that now the minister or the government has the ability to hire or appoint who they want to the secretariat, and then, through the use of mandate letters and directives, to really tell those people what they want from them and how they expect them to achieve it. So I'm not sure how the minister is able to say that this leads to less interference.

To me, it appears that it would lead to more potential for interference, not that I would suggest that the minister would unduly try to influence any of his Crown boards. Mr. Cullen: So what the legislation does, it provides a framework and it provides a process, and this way there is a process. There's guidelines to follow, and there's–and a process in terms of the discussions with the respective players.

Previously, there was very little oversight in terms of the Cro wns; you know, the minister or the minister's political staff could have a direct –or provide direction, quite frankly, to the Crown corporations. * (15:30)

1902 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2018 I think it's important to remind the members that, you know, the mandate letters, the directives, are all public as well. So that certainly speaks to the transparency in regard to this legislation. I think it's very, very important. So, like under the old model, there was political staff associated with the government for each corporation. So, clear ly, direction could be given directly from the minister to political staff, right down to management of the organization. Mr.

Lindsey: Is that not still a possibility when the government appoints new members of the caucus to sit on boards to Crown corpora tions? Or are they there merely to report back to the minister, or do they take orders from the minister to deliver to the boards? Mr. Cullen : It's been a long -standing practice of governments to allow MLAs to sit on some Crown corporation boards. And tha t's a long- standing practice. I can't speak for other ministers, but I know myself. I do not provide direction to members that are sitting on those boards. Mr.

Lindsey: I sense the minister wasn't done with his answer, so I would look forward to hearing t he rest of it. Mr. Cullen: I think that pretty well spells it out. I mean, the legislation provides the framework that we as government, as minister and deputy minister, and secretariat work towards. It outlines the relationships that we have. It outline s, you know, who's going to be talking to who and it clearly identifies an opportunity for us to make sure that we understand fully written roles and responsibilities.

And those roles and responsibilities are open to the public scrutiny, mandate letters ar e open to public scrutiny. Directives are available to the public as well. So we're trying to design a open and transparent process as much as possible so that everyone's aware of the discussions and communication between government and Crown corporations. Mr. Lindsey: So the minister's talked quite a bit about mandate letters and directives. Are all the mandate letters that are required now in place? Have they been communicated to everybody that the minister believes they should be? Is it a work in progress?

Perhaps maybe the minister could just update us on that. Mr. Cullen: Yes, the legislation allows for mandate letters to be issued by government. This is, in my knowledge, the first time mandate letters have been provided to the Crown agencies. So the mandate letters really outline what the priorities are for government. All the Crowns have been issued the initial mandate letters, but it is obviousl y a work in progress, as you say. You know, priorities can change. So there's ongoing discussion–which–each of the Crown corporations, in terms of what the best path forward could be.

So, as we evolve and as we have those conversations, provides us an opportunity to revisit those mandate letters. So, as you say, that it really is a work in progress. Mr. Lindsey: So does every entity or CEO or down the chain that requires a mandate letter, are they all in place yet? Mr. Cullen : The–all the Crowns that I deal with have been issued the initial mandate letters. It is the prerogative of government to issue additional mandate letters if the government so desires.

But the communication with Crowns is very important, and through that communication, then we can decide as a government whether or not we would like to issue additional mandate letters to the respective corporations. Mr. Lindsey: Okay. So what about the directives as opposed to the mandate letters? Is that something that changes constantly? Have t here been directives issued to all the Crowns? Mr. Cullen : I appreciate the question and opportunity to make sure we fully understand the process that we've developed and the legislation.

So the mandate letters really talk more about the high-level prio rities, sort of the strategy going forward. The directives are designed to be more specific, relative to maybe a program or a certain program or something that the government may feel is important for the Crown to carry out. I think it would be safe to sa y it's not the government's intent to be issuing a lot of directives to Crown corporations. In fact, we've only issued one directive, that to Manitoba Hydro, at this point in time. Mr. Lindsey: I guess I have to ask what that one directive is and what does it say.

April 26, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1903 Mr. Cullen: Again, these–with these directives and the mandates, they're all available for public consumption. That specific directive to Manitoba Hydro was in regard to the proposal that had been developed between Manitoba Hydro and the Manitoba Metis Federation in terms of a payment scheme. And the directive was to say to Manitoba Hydro to not enter into that agreement at this time. Mr.

Lindsey: So the minister, on the one hand, says he doesn't want to interfere, and yet the one and only directive that's been issued to date could be seen as a pretty big interference in that Crown corporation. * (15:40) Is that the minister's plan for these directives, is to try and really control what the Crown does or agrees to, or that once they've come to some kind of agreement on –I mean, in this case, it was a pretty important agreement that they'd reached with the Manitoba Metis Federation that the government then issued a directive that said, stop, don't do that.

Is that the whole point of these directiv es is to really prevent the Crown corporations from doing that which they think is best for the Crown and the government in the process, then, that really the minister, or, I guess, the Premier (Mr. Pallister) in this case, would be having their fingers al l over everything that the Crown does, then, that if the Crown corporation knows that with a moment's notice, the government will issue a directive telling them to stop, isn't that the ultimate interference? Mr. Cullen : I appreciate the question.

You know , clearly, as the minister responsible for Crown agencies, we want to make sure the Crowns have the same policies and same priorities as government. So if we see a Crown stepping out of line with what we feel–view as being our policies or priorities, that would be an opportunity to issue a directive. And, again, these directives and these mandates are all approved by Cabinet. So to say that a minister could go off and issue a directive today on something, the reality is it can't happen; it has to be through government.

So I think it's important to recognize that this is a real public and transparent process. There's no behind-the-scenes deals going on between government and the Crown agencies, which certainly appeared to happen in the past. Mr. Linds ey: Well, we weren't really going to go down that rabbit hole just yet, but what the heck, let's go. So how many times has the minister –or, I guess, on what occasions has the minister met in person with the chair of the board of Manitoba Hydro since this particular minister became the Minister responsible for Crown Services? Mr.

Cullen: Yes, don't necessarily want to get into specifics with the member on this, but I will say that certainly had a number of meetings with the previous chair of Manitoba Hydro. Also met face to face with the new chair of Manitoba Hydro, and I continue to meet with the chairs of the other Crown corporations as well. So I think it's very important that we continue to have those face-to-face conversations and to make sure that w e are apprised of where the corporation wants to go. Clearly, we're not interested in the day-to-day operations on many Crown corporations.

We just want to make sure that they are aligned with the policies and the priorities that our government has, moving forward. So those communications with the chairs are very important. Mr. Lindsey: I guess I kind of would like to get a little more into the specifics than what, perhaps, the minister would like to do, but prior to the directive telling the Crown corpora tion Manitoba Hydro to stop with the agreement that they had with the Manitoba Metis Federation, how many times had the minister met with the CEO? Mr.

Cullen: I can assure the member opposite that I have had numerous conversations with the previous chair, a number of conversations with the new chair, and I continue to have discussions with all the chairs. And I think to–just to make it clear, the directive was around a proposal. There was no agreement between Manitoba Hydro and Manitoba M etis Federation. It was a proposal. In fact, the document itself refers to it as a term sheet so there was no agreement in place. So the directive was to not to proceed to the next phase, which would have been an agreement. Mr.

Lindsey: So, at any of the meetings that the minister says he's had with the chair prior to the directive being issued, was there ever any discussion of an ongoing process involving Manitoba Hydro and the Manitoba Metis Federation? Mr. Cullen: If I understand the member's question, certainly, the government was aware of discussions between Manitoba Hydro and the Manitoba M etis Federation going forward, and clearly, I, as minister, had a discussion with the chair of the board about

1904 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2018 those–about that proposal and certainly, we did meet on a number of occasions about that specific proposal. Mr. Lindsey: So would it be fair to say, then, if the minister says he's had any number of discussions, meetings with the chair around the proposal that the minister had a pretty good idea, then, of where the discussions were going? Mr.

Cullen : Well, obviously, we value all the stakeholders and all the partners we have across the province, and to undertake any project, whe ther it be a hydroelectric dam or a transmission line, there's an involved process with a lot of different stakeholders and we value those relationships and we appreciate the consultation that has to be done.

Government is responsible for consultation wi th the indigenous and M etis communities and we take that role very seriously, and obviously, we allow Manitoba Hydro to enter into specific agreements, and certainly, we were aware of this particular proposal going forward, and obviously, the proposal is certainly not a one-off proposal.

There was a lot of details in this proposal and really about the future, and that was –the concern government had was the – this proposal would take away the rights of future Manitobans to make decisions on future projects and that was the decision the government took and that's why the directive was issued. Mr. Lindsey: So the minister had any number of discussions. He hasn't really told us how many, whether it's two or 10 or 50 or –about things with Manitoba Hydro, with the chair of the board.

So I'm– guess I'm going to have to assume, and maybe I'm wrong–maybe the minister will straighten me out and say no, no, that's not what happened–I'm going to assume, then, that the chair of the board would have kept the minister, if not completely in the loop, at least informed as to what the discussion was with the Manitoba Metis Federation and where they were going with that discussion. * (15:50) I'm going to again assume –and, again, the minister can straighten me out if I'm wrong –that it didn't come to a surprise one morning when he got up over his morning coffee and realized that the agreement, proposal, whatever the minister wishes to characterize it as, was at the stage it was at.

Is that a safe assumption on my part? Mr. Cullen : Clearly, you know, communication is important, and we recognize that. And we knew there was ongoing discussion around a number of projects. When the board finally put this proposal together in conjunction with the Manitoba Metis Federation, I think the reference would be a term sheet, once they did have the details around the term sheet proposal together, the board actually asked us to review it.

And I think it's the responsible thing to do as a government is to see if –check the legalities of the document and see if the proposal was actually in line with the priorities and the policies of the Manitoba government. Mr. Lindsey: So does the minister believe that the Crown is bound by the Turning the Page Agreement signed on November 26, 2014, signed between the Manitoba Metis Federation, Manitoba Hydro and the Province of Manitoba? Mr. Cullen : Certainly, we are still honouring the provisions of the Turning the Page Agreement.

You know, we have a difference of opinion, clearly, with the Manitoba Metis Federation over the nature of the proposal, and we will probably continue to disagree on that until proven otherwise. But within the Turning the Page Agreement there is a dispute mechanism which allows the parties to come together to fully frame what the dispute is. And I know we're going through that process right now, so the three parties under the tripartite steering committee will be getting together to frame the current dispute. So it is our intent to honour the terms of that particular agreement. Mr.

Lindsey: So, stemming from the Turning the Page Agreement, Manitoba Hydro engaged in broad negotiations with the Manitoba Metis Federation in regard to a range of past and future developments. Now, that work has been ongoing for several years, to my understanding. So was the minister informed last year that these negotiations were ongoing? Mr. Cullen : Just to clarify, too, the Turning the Page Agreement really, in my vie w, is a framework for discussion.

So, you know, as a result of that framework for discussion, that allows Manitoba Hydro and whatever entity to enter into discussions and potentially reach agreements with those various entities. You know, the Turning the Page Agreement doesn't compel Manitoba Hydro to sign any agreements. In this particular case, once a proposal

April 26, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1905 was put together with the Manitoba Metis Federation and Manitoba Hydro, the board asked the government of Manitoba to review it, to make sure that it was in line with our priorities and policies. And that's where the government took a different view than the approach that was undertaken under that proposal. Mr. Lindsey: So at what point in time did the minister become aware that these discussions were ongoing? Mr. Cullen : Sorry, could the member repeat the question? Mr.

Lindsey: At what point in time did the minister become aware that these discussions were ongoing? Recognizing that he hasn’t been the minister for Crowns for that long. Mr. Culle n: Yes, I'm not exactly –I can't give you a specific date when I was –became aware of the– this specific proposal. Certainly was some time ago. I don't know exactly when the date was when the board asked the government to review the documentation as well.

I do know there was some –quite a bit of legal work, background work done reviewing the document to make sure that we fully appreciated what th e proposal would mean to government and what it would mean to Metis people into the future as well. So, certainly, when government became aware of the –was presented the proposal, there was certainly a lot of work done behind the scenes to make sure that we fully appreciated all the clauses that were contained in that proposal. Mr.

Lindsey: So then, would it be fair to say that the minister became aware of this ongoing negotiation pretty much as soon as he became appointed the Minister of Crown Services? Mr. Cullen : Well, you know, there's ongoing negotiations with a lot of stakeholders around the province, and those negotiations continue. They're ongoing. You know, Manitoba Hydro is looking at other developments across the province. We haven’t fully reso lved some of the outstanding issues relative to Bipole III either, in terms of land owners and compensation.

So there's a myriad of discussions with key stakeholders and individual stakeholders that go on and continue to go on. And they will for a long tim e to come, because Manitoba Hydro is in the business to sell electricity, and to sell electricity, we need infrastructure to do that. So there's a lot of work ahead of us yet, and certainly, in the Manitoba -Minnesota transmission line. We've gone through the Clean Environment Commission process. There's still consultation that has to be done, subject to

section 35. So that's the government responsibility, and the government will continue those discussions in consultations with those key stakeholders as we move forward. We're also involved now in the federal process, through the National Energy Board, and unfortunately, we're going through the longer, more delayed process that the federal government has prescribed for us.

So, you know, we're optimistic we can get that project off the ground, hopefully, in the near future. * (16:00) I know the US component of the line is being built as we speak, and we certainly want to make sure that we're in a position to sell our customers to the south in the very ne ar future. And it's –obviously once Keeyask is complete, we're going to have 'surplush'–surplus capacity of electricity, and we're– we need some markets to –find some markets to sell that excess capacity. So there'll be a lot of work ahead in terms of develop ing transmission projects here in Manitoba. Mr.

Lindsey: I have no doubt there will. And certainly when one looks at the need to reduce carbon, Manitoba Hydro should be poised to be a supplier of choice for a lot of jurisdictions, be they north, south, east or west. But I guess just to get back to this particular aspect of this agreement that –the minister's alluded to–there was a lot of work going on behind the scenes, checking the legalities.

And so I'm assuming all of this work was taking place with th e minister's full knowledge once he became the minister and that there was no –or at least there should have been no great surprise where this particular agreement was headed. So, at some point in time during the negotiation prior to it coming to the point where it was, did the government ever suggest to Manitoba Hydro, to the chair, that they were headed in the wrong direction with this particular agreement? Mr. Cullen: Yes, as I'd indicated before, you know, we–and myself–had a number of discussions with the

1906 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2018 chair of the board. We were apprised of where they were headed, and once we had the, you know, the full proposal in front of us, it really gave us an– then, the opp ortunity to fully evaluate what the repercussions of that proposal would be. And you know, that's the time that was –you know, it's incumbent upon government to make sure that Manitoba Hydro and all Crown corporations, quite frankly, are acting in the best interests of rate payers, and quite frankly, the shareholders of Manitoba Hydro or whatever Crown corporation it is.

So we, on behalf of the taxpayers, made sure that we had a thorough review of the proposal and what it would mean to future Manitobans and in this –and particular what it would mean to Manitoba Metis people down the road. And what –it was our view that this proposal would take away opportunities for Metis people to have a–enter into a discussion about future projects and future-proposed projects. So we don't think that's keeping in the best interests of Manitobans, and that was the undertaking once we did see the specific details of this proposal. Mr.

Lindsey: So, from comments made by the former chair of the Hydro board, Sandy Riley, the negotiations on this matter were pretty far advanced, and the two sides to the agreement had come to a spot in the negotiations where they in fact were in agreement. So the Manitoba Metis Federation, chair of the board of Manitoba Hydro, were at a point where they were in agreement.

The minister has said that he had knowledge of the negotiation process, that the legalities were being followed up on throughout the process, that this really shouldn't have come as a big surprise to the minister where they we re at if he's as informed as he's led us to believe he was. So can the minister confirm when exactly the negotiation came to this advanced stage where the two parties involved, the –Manitoba Hydro and the Manitoba Metis Federation, were in agreement with the proposal? What date did that happen? Mr.

Cullen : I don't know when–obviously, there was–been discussions for quite some time, in fact, probably going back years between Manitoba Hydro and the Manitoba Metis Federation in terms of, you know, what a proposal would look like. And, obviously, this particular proposal brought a lot of different transmission lines into play and even future projects that haven't–aren't really online, so to speak. So I don't know when, you know, they formally came to this agreement. I'm –you know, it was probably years in the making. I don't know when that transpired.

Obviously, when we had the final proposal before us, that was our opportunity to have a look at the proposal and see how it would impact both government, how it would impact Manitoba Metis and their rights into the future. That's–once we received that particular document, that's when our legal people got involved in it to make sure they had a wholesome review of the proposal, to make sure we understood the implications going forward. And under that particular proposal, there's 'impiclations' over the next 50 years. So it's a very significant proposal.

And that's why we, as government, wanted to make sure that we were doing our diligence in regard to reviewing that particular proposal. And because it's going to affect Metis rights for up to 50 years down the road and what basically takes away Metis –the next generation or two generations of Metis people to object to transmission proposals that may be developed here in Manitoba. So it's a very significant proposal, and that's why we wanted to make sure that we did our diligence and we took the time to get it right to understand the implications around that particular proposal. Mr.

Lindsey: So the minister has mad e a couple of statements now that seem, perhaps, at least in my mind, somewhat contradictory. You earlier said that the government lawyers were involved all along or throughout the process, making sure the legalities of this negotiation process were acceptable. You've said that, as the minister, although you've been there a relatively short period of time, you had any number of meetings, although you're not sure how many, with the chair of the board and discussed this issue, that you're aware of, kind of, w here they were going with it.

And yet all of a sudden, then, when the two sides had come to what they both termed an agreement, and take it to the government, all of a sudden now you've said that lawyers had to get involved to check the legalities. And yet , previously, you said that that had been going on all along. So, I guess, either you were informed and knew what was going on and lawyers were looking at it, or they weren't looking at it. I don't understand how you can have your cake and eat it too in this process that–

April 26, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1907 so, could you perhaps explain that in greater detail for me, please? Mr. Cullen : I'd be more than happy to clarify for the member. We knew there has been discussions between Manitoba Hydro and the Manitoba Metis Federation. We, as a government, were not involved in those discussions. We did not have government lawyers involved in those discussions.

Our government lawyers did not get involved until after the board of Manitoba Hydro provided us with the proposal. * (16:10) So during the discussions –and I'm assuming this goes back probably a couple of years –I think it would be safe to say that legal people acting on behalf of Manitoba Hydro, legal people acting on behalf of the Manitoba Metis Federation, were involved in those discussions and ultimately in drafting the proposal that eventually –by the board recommending it to us for a review. That's when government lawyers got involved in reviewing the proposal in question. Mr.

Lindsey: Well, I thank the minister for clearing that up, because it certainly appears to be something different that what he'd at least given me the impression he'd said previously. So Manitoba Hydro has their lawyers involved in the discussions all the way along, this negotiation is years in the making, Manit oba Metis Federation has their lawyers involved with this process years in the making. When did the proposal come to the government? What date? Mr. Cullen: I can't give the member the exact date when the proposal came to government.

I will say though, that acting on behalf of ratepayers and as the shareholder of Manitoba Hydro, we wanted to make sure we took the time to do our diligence and review the document, review all aspects of the document, what it would mean to government, what it would mean to Manitoba Hydro, and just as important, what it would mean to the Manitoba Metis Federation, their individual members and also Metis people that are not members of the Manitoba Metis Federation as well. So certainly there was –there's a lot of clauses in there and impacts that would extend over a 50- year period.

So we wanted to make sure we fully understood exactly what those implications would be, you know, as well as the cost to Manitoba ratepayers–would be significant costs as well. But I think just as importantly is the implications for the next generations of Metis people and their opportunity to be involved in discussions around– whether it be transmission lines into the future or whether it be hydroelectric dam development into the future. It could take t heir rights off the table for a period of the next 50 years. So it's a very substantial proposal that was brought to government.

And government certainly, in my view, did its due diligence and reviewed all of the legal implications around this particular proposal. And I think that the board at Manitoba Hydro recognized that this particular proposal would have implications to many Manitobans and for many years down the road, and that's why they sought input and guidance from the government of Manitoba. Mr. Lindsey: So the minister doesn't know when the proposal the two sides had agreed on–he doesn't know when that actually came to the government. Is that correct? Can the minister find that information out? Mr.

Cullen : Yes, so, I thank the member for the question. From my understanding, government received the proposal –or the term sheet in –last August, I believe it was. Mr. Lindsey: So the first the government received was August 2016 or 2017? Twenty seventeen. So Manitoba Hydro and the Manitoba Metis Federation have been negotiating for years. The minister, and I'm assuming the previous minister, met with the chair of the board on numerous occasions. This negotiation wasn't a secret negotiation from the minister. So he was well aware of where the parties were going, if he maybe didn't have all the infinite details.

I'm going to ask the minister, was he aware of, prior to –or was th e previous minister, and I understand it's hard for this minister to necessarily answer for that minister, but surely, one of the ministers must have been aware of the very broad strokes of the agreement and where Manitoba Hydro and the Manitoba Metis Federation were headed with this agreement, although they didn't have the fine detail. Is that correct? Mr. Cullen: Yes, and I certainly can't speak to the previous minister, his knowledge of this particular proposal, but this particular proposal, I think it' s–we

1908 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2018 have to clarify that it's a unique proposal. It's unique in the fact that it encompasses future projects. I think this is a completely new concept for Manitoba Hydro because in previous arrangements and agreements that Manitoba Hydro have reached with–whether it be Manitoba Metis Federation or individual First Nations communities, I think they were pretty well always based on one project, whether it be a transmission line or whether it be a bipole line or whether it be around a hydroelectric development dam.

Those agreements were always in regard to that one specific project, and obviously, the intent for Manitoba Hydro is to mitigate any damages that the communities could face. So that's the nature of agreements up 'til this point in time. So this proposal is very unique in that it contemplates a number of projects, numerous projects, and quite frankly, some projects that aren't even being considered at this point in time.

So it's a very unique proposal and, I think, because of its uniqueness and its far -reaching consequences for many Manitobans for up to a 50- year period, the board at Manitoba Hydro sought the direction and the guidance of the government of Manitoba. So I think that's very important. So it's very important to clear out: this is a very unique proposal before the board of Manitoba Hydro and, quite frankly, before the government of Manitoba. Mr. Lindsey: So Mr. Riley had alleged that he had tried to meet the Premier (Mr. Pallister) on multiple occasions and had never been successful in meeting with the Premier .

So I'm assuming that one of the things he would have liked to have discussed with the Premier was this specific agreement, particularly as they got to the point where the two sides were really in what they termed as in agreemen t on this proposal. I'm going to assume, again, that –well, we don't have to assume. We know

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	41-3-41b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	41st 3rd hansardpdf 41b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	e7e15c36486277cf2ae554a07135c80e1fd74821

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