Manitoba Hansard — 11 May 2023 (Sitting 53B, 42nd Legislature, 5th Session)

42-5-53b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXVII No. 53B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, May 11, 2023 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon. Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon.

Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott, Hon. Assiniboia PC KHAN, Obby, Hon. Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLEIN, Kevin E., Hon. Kirkfield Park PC LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice, Hon.

Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg, Hon. Riding Mountain PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle, Hon. Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP REYES, Jon, Hon. Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew, Hon. Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James, Hon. Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon.

Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC Vacant Morden-Winkler

2259 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, May 11, 2023 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. I have a statement for the House. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: I have a statement for the House on the occasion of Manitoba Day, but before I begin, I would like to introduce some very special guests we have in the Speaker's Gallery.

We have with us today the Honourable Tony Akoak, Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of Nunavut; Andrew Carrier, the Manit oba Métis Federation, Minister of Métis Community Liaison Department, Residential and Day Schools; and David Beaudin, the Manitoba Métis Federation, Minister of Agriculture. On behalf of all honourable members here, we welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature. Speaker's Statement Madam Speaker: Tomorrow, May 12th, 2023, marks 153rd anniversary of the day the Manitoba Act received royal assent in the Canadian Parliament.

This act created the Province of Manitoba and, accord - ingly, May 12th has been designated as Manitoba Day. In honour of this historic occasion, as we have done for the past several years, our Sergeant-at-Arms carried our original Manitoba mace in today's Speaker's parade. Carved from the wheel hub of a Red River cart in 1870, this mace made its first formal appearance on March 15th, 1871, at the First Session of the 1st Manitoba Legislature, held in the home of A.G. Bannatyne in the Red River Settlement. The Bannatyne home was destroyed by fire in December 1873 but, thankfully, the mace survived.

After 13 years of service, our original mace was retired in 1884 when our current mace debuted. The original mace has a permanent home on display outside of the Speaker's office, coming out of retirement annually for this celebr ation and other special events. This important historical artifact sits on the table today as a tribute to the rich history of our province. In addition to the original mace, the star blanket cushion and the beautiful beaded mace runner, gifted to us by the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs in 2010, are also on display today to honour Manitoba's Indigenous heritage as we celebrate Manitoba Day.

As well, this year we have been gifted two new significant artifacts to enhance and enjoy our heritage display. First, we have a Métis sash, gifted to us by the Manitoba federation. President David Chartrand presented this sash to me this week, and I am pleased that Minister Carrier and Minister Beaudin are able to join us on his behalf in the gallery today. Second, we have a soapstone carving of a polar bear, a gift to this Assembly from our northern neighbours, the Legislative Assembly of Nunavut.

George Hickes Jr., the Deputy Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of Nunavut, personally delivered the carving to us ea rlier this week, and I am very grateful that Speaker Akoak is also with us today in the gallery as well. All of these artifacts serve as a reminder that this Assembly Chamber and Legislative Building reside on the traditional lands of Indigenous people, a s we recognize each day in our land acknowledgement.

I am honoured and humbled that we are able to include these treasured artifacts in our annual celebration of Manitoba Day, and I trust that this tradition will continue past my tenure as your Speaker. With this rich history in mind, I would encourage all honourable members to reflect on the solemn responsibility we all share to serve our constituents in this Assembly with honour and respect, and recall that whatever heated debates occur in this place are all part of a very long legacy of service to the people of this province. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Madam Speaker: Orders of the day. Regular–routine proceedings.

Pardon me.

2260 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 11, 2023 INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 214–The Ecological Reserves Amendment Act (Ecological Corridors) Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the MLA for Tyndall Park, that Bill 214, The Ecological Reserves Amendment Act (Ecological Corridors); Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les réserves écologiques (corridors écologiques), be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Gerrard: Madam Speaker, this bill provides the legislative framework for the formal designation of ecological corridors, sometimes called wildlife cor - ridors, in Manitoba. For example, ecological corri dors along a river, like the Little Saskatchewan River or the Red River, could now, under this legis lation, be designated an ecological corridor formally, and potentially be avail- able for public support from the federal government. It is very different from the model for a provincial park or federal park.

Because there are so many land- owners involved, it involves a part nership in stewardship moving forward. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] COMMITTEE REPORTS Standing Committee on Justice Third Report Mr. Len Isleifson (Chairperson): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the third report on the Standing Committee of Justice. Clerk (Ms. Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Justice– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Madam Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on Justice presents the following as its Third Report.

Meetings Your Committee met on May 10, 2023, at 6:00 p.m. in Room 254 of the Legislative Building. Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 7) – The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la réglementation des alcools, des jeux et du cannabis • Bill (No. 16) – The Domestic Violence and Stalking Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la violence familiale et le harcèlement criminel • Bill (No. 27) – The Intimate Image Protection Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la protection des images intimes Committee Membership • MLA A SAGWARA • Hon. Mr. GOERTZEN • Mr. ISLEIFSON • Mr. LAGASSÉ • Ms. LATHLIN • Hon. Mr. TEITSMA Your Committee elected Mr. ISLEIFSON as the Chairperson. Your Committee elected Mr. LAGASSÉ as the Vice - Chairperson. Non-Committee Members Speaking on Record • Ms. LAMOUREUX • Mr. WIEBE Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following three presen- tations on Bill (No. 7) – The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la réglementation des alcools, des jeux et du cannabis: Sean Jackson, Private Citizen Brandon Guenther, Pedal Pub Winnipeg Kevin Selch, Little Brown Jug Brewing Company Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 7) – The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la réglementation des alcools, des jeux et du cannabis Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 16) – The Domestic Violence and Stalking Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la violence familiale et le harcèlement criminel Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment.

May 11, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2261 • Bill (No. 27) – The Intimate Image Protection Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la protection des images intimes Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. Mr. Isleifson: Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member from Dawson Trail, that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development Fifth Report Mr. Dennis Smook (Chairperson): I wish to present the fifth report of the Standing Com mittee on Social and Economic Development. Clerk: Your Standing Com mittee on Social and Economic Development– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Madam Speaker: Dispense.

Your Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development presents the following as its Fifth Report. Meetings Your Committee met on May 10, 2023, at 6:00 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building. Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 10) – The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act (Social Responsibility Fee Repealed) / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la réglementation des alcools, des jeux et du cannabis (abrogation de la taxe de responsabilité sociale) Committee Membership • Hon. Mr. C ULLEN • Mr. MICHALESKI • Ms. NAYLOR • Mr. SALA • Hon. Mr. SMITH (Lagimodière) • Mr. SMOOK Your Committee elected Mr. SMOOK as the Chairperson. Your Committee elected Mr. MICHALESKI as the Vice- Chairperson. Non-Committee Members Speaking on Record • Mr. LAMONT Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following 14 presentations on Bill (No. 10) – The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act (Social Responsibility Fee Repealed) / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la réglementation des alcools, des jeux et du cannabis (abrogation de la taxe de responsabilité sociale): Todd Friesen, Private Citizen Shannon Sala, The Essential Cannabis Company Ltd. Sean Stewart, AAAAA Supercraft Cannabis Tyler Miller, The Vault Cannabis Ltd. Ryan Peterson, Midnight Show Kerri Michell, Farmer Jane Cannabis Co. Sharon Clark, Private Citizen Annick Beauchesne, Babette's Cannabis Dispensary Melanie Bekevich, Private Citizen Ariel Glinter, The Joint Cannabis Shop Katie Torgerson, Star Buds Cannabis Co. R.J. Kusmack, Fiddlers Green Cannabis Co. Kim Ruud, High Tide Inc.

Steven Stairs, Cannabis Business Association of Manitoba Written Submissions Your Committee received the following two written submissions on Bill (No. 10) – The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act (Social Responsibility Fee Repealed) / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la réglementation des alcools, des jeux et du cannabis (abrogation de la taxe de responsabilité sociale): Christopher Britton, Black Tie Cannabis Sandy Nemeth, Manitoba School Boards Association Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 10) – The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act (Social Responsibility Fee Repealed) / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la réglementation des alcools, des jeux et du cannabis (abrogation de la taxe de responsabilité sociale) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. Mr. Smook: I move, seconded by the honour able member for Brandon West (Mr. Helwer), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. Madam Speaker: Tabling of reports?

2262 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 11, 2023 MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Manitoba Day Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage –and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes' notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with rule 27(2). Would the honourable minister please proceed with his statement. Hon. Obby Khan (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): Madam Speaker, thank you for your beautiful opening remarks today celebrating and recog- nizing Manitoba Day. Today, I rise–well, actually for tomorrow–May 12th, 2023, as Manitoba Day.

This marks the 153rd anniversary of Manitoba –of the Manitoba Act receiving royal assent in Ottawa. On a day like today, it is important to pause and acknowledge the heritage, history and traditions of all peoples in our province when it was founded, and all those who live here today. I would like to take this opportunity to ac - knowledge that we are on Treaty 1 territory and the homeland of the Red River Métis.

This year, I am honoured that we are able to include two new artifacts on the Clerk's table to cele- brate Manitoba Day: the Métis sash, gifted by President Chartrand of the Manitoba Métis Federation, and a soapstone carving of a polar bear, gifted by the Legislative Assembly of Nunavut. Thank you for these beautiful artifacts. Today's Manitoba–today, Manitoba is rich with diversity, inclusivity and a multicultural heritage that enriches our lives every day. We have the opportunity to explore objects, records and stories of our very own archives, libraries and museums.

Our province represents a variety of cultural traditions, languages, art, food and so much more. Whether you were born here or, like me, were given the opportunity to experience the warmth of friendly Manitoba, our province is the sum of its parts. Diversity is our strength and we are stronger together. Together, we have grown from a postage stamp to this land we are so proud of. * (13:40) I encourage each and every Manitoban to take this opportunity to explore our wonderful province and its rich history. Diversity is strength. Unity is beautiful. Heritage is knowledge. And together we are friendly Manitoba.

Thank you, Madam Speaker–Manitoba Day. Mr. Diljeet Brar (Burrows): Madam Speaker, 153 years ago on May 12th, the Manitoba Act received royal assent after months of negotiation with the father of the province, Louis Riel. Riel and his provisional government had a vision for a Manitoba in which all peoples were treated equally and in which Indigenous communities played a central role in our cultural, social and political landscape. Today, we reaffirm our commitment to Riel's vision for the provinc e. We celebrate how far we've come, but we also recognize how far we have to go.

When we see Manitobans come together to help others in their time of need, we can hope that Louis Riel would be proud. But we know we have more to do to ensure that all Manitobans are treated equally in this province, regardless of race or socio -economic background, and more to empower Indigenous peoples. Only then Riel's vision for our province be fully realized. Celebrating Manitoba Day also highlights the unique features and attractions of the province.

From the natural beauty of Riding Mountain National Park to the rich history of The Forks National Historic Site, Manitoba has much to offer visitors and residents alike. The province's diverse population, including its Indigenous communities, also contributes to its vibrant cultural scene. Manitoba Day is a significant day for the province of Manitoba and its Indigenous communities, pro- viding an opportunity to acknowledge the history and contributions of Indigenous peoples, while also cele- brating the unique features and attractions of the province.

As we look towards the future, let us con- tinue to work towards reconciliation and building a brighter future for all Manitobans. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Madam Speaker, I ask for leave to respond to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] Ms. Lamoureux: I rise today to recognize our pro- vince's entry into Confederation.

May 11, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2263 Back in 1870, it was Louis Riel and his pro- visional government who began the effort of founding Manitoba and having it become a part of Canada. The Riel government wrote a bill of rights, as we all know, and this bill recognized language rights, religious freedoms, representation in Ottawa and the interests of the Red River Métis population. The bill of rights became the Manitoba Act and was passed by Parliament on May 12, 1870.

And then, in June, the land was transferred from the Hudson's Bay Company to the Government of Canada, and, on July 15th, Manitoba was officially established as part of Confederation. Madam Speaker, Indigenous people were the first people here in Manitoba. And while today we recognize Manitoba Day, we also need to recognize that Indigenous reconciliation is an ongoing process. Part of this process is having September 30th be considered the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation. It is one tangible move we can make now, and we are calling on this provincial government to do so.

Since Manitoba became a part of Confederation, our province has become home for many people around the world. We are so fortunate to live in a cultural mosaic filled with people of different back- grounds and skills. In wrapping up, I want ed to share a couple neat facts about Manitoba. Did you know that The Forks is actually the longest skating trail in the world, stretching 8.45 kilometres, and the coldest temperature ever recorded in Manitoba was on December 24th in 1879, at - 47.8°C, Madam Speaker?

And with those few words and those fun facts, I want to thank the member –the minister for bringing forward today's statement, and you, Madam Speaker, for allowing the opportunity to speak to it. Thank you. Madam Speaker: In celebration of M anitoba Day, and you all have a little flag on your desk provided by the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage (Mr. Khan), how about a wave to all Manitobans? And happy Manitoba Day. Further ministerial statements? Wildfire Prevention Week Hon.

Greg Nesbitt (Minister of Natural Resources and Northern Development): Madam Speaker, as we observe wildfire prevention, mitigation and preparedness planning week, I want to remind all Manitobans of the importance of being vigilant in preventing and respondi ng to wildfires. This is especially critical as we approach camping and fishing season, which brings more Manitobans outdoors. Wildfires are not exclusive to Manitoba and we will always be ready to help where needed.

That's why I am pleased to announce our government has sent two Canadair CL-415 tankers and a bird dog aircraft, along with five pilots, two air attack officers and two engineers, to assist in fighting wildfires in Alberta. Our firefighters have now arrived in Lac La Biche and are ready to help our prairie neighbour. I want to extend my gratitude to these brave men and women for their service and dedication to pro- tecting communities.

A small fire can quickly become a large fire, so I encourage all Manitobans to take the necessary pre - cautions to prevent wildfires, including being mindful of campfires, disposing of cigarettes properly and following all fire restrictions and bans. We must all do our part to protect our province. Thank you. Madam Speaker: And I would indicate that the required 90 minutes' notice prior to routine proceedings had been provided in accordance with rule 27(2). MLA Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, as spring arrives in Manitoba, it brings warmer temperatures; with that, the risk of wildfire.

Unfortunately, human activity can increase the risk of wildfire, making them more dangerous. Wildfires are becoming increasingly unpredict - able as climate change worsens. Research shows that climate change will increase the frequency and severity of droughts in the prai ries, which will increase the likelihood of wildfires. We can act now to prevent worsening wire fires. Most summers, Manitobans have to be evacuated from northern communities due to wildfires. Unfortunately, this government is refusing to take meaningful action on climate change.

At the same time, they've actively reduced our ability to fight fires by privatizing our fire suppression program and our water bombers. We also see a reduction in the number of available initial attack

2264 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 11, 2023 firefighters, which puts more northern communities at risk of out-of-control fires. We know, right now, there are devastating fires burning in Alberta. We appreciate that Manitoba has sent resources to Alberta to help fight these fires, and I want to thank all the firefighters who are willingly putting themselves in dangerous conditions to protect all our communities. It's important that we send firefighters to assist in other jurisdictions– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Some Honourable Members: Leave.

Madam Speaker: Is there leave to allow the member to complete his statement? Some Honourable Members: No. Madam Speaker: Leave has been denied. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I ask leave to speak to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to speak to respond to the minis terial statement? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Madam Speaker, today our attention must be focused on ensuring that Manitoba is well prepared for wildfires in our province.

With the government's poor preparation with regards to human resources in health care, it's opportune to emphasize the need for training an adequate num ber of people to fight forest fires in Manitoba. There can be a major surge in the need for personnel if there's a series of wildfires, and we need to make sure that we have the people ready. There's also a need to act quickly when the forest fire has any chance of spreading toward a community. From visiting Wasagamack a couple of years ago, quick action to prevent or supress a fire could have prevented the evacuation of the community.

We need to be ready to act quickly. I want to thank all those who are active in such preparation, as well as those who are active in fighting the fires when they occur. Thank you. Merci. Miigwech. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Transcona Biz–Festival of Banners Hon. James Teitsma (Minister of Consumer Protection and Government Services): Today, I want to tell you about an inspiring program happening out in Transcona that really sparks the creativit y and imagination of students from kindergarten to grade 12 across our community.

Each year, the Transcona BIZ invites all Transcona students, whether they attend public school or an independent school, or are homeschooled, to submit ideas–designs ideas–as part of the Festival of Banners. Each year there's a theme, and this year's theme is Dinosaurs Roam Transcona. Students are encouraged to use their creativity and ideas to combine the theme, along with trans–local Transcona icons.

My six-year-old son Mark submitted his idea that includes a giant Tyrannosaurus rex taking a huge bite out of the Transcona museum. * (13:50) Last year over 1,200 students submitted design ideas for the 65 banner locations, and this year is on track to be just as popular. E ntries have to be in by 3 p.m. on Monday, May 15th, at the BIZ office on Bond Street, so there's still time to enter. They'll then be scanned and posted online. The voting happens between May 23rd and June 6th.

Once the winners are selected, they're given a 90-inch-by-30-inch-wide banner to paint both sides of with –and along with all the supplies they need to do that. Now, the banners are usually erected in the middle of July and are kept on display for an entire year. After the year is over, the banners are taken down and returned to the students who created them in the first place, giving them a lasting memento. My own daughter was one of the artists selected 12 years ago when she was just in grade 5, and she still has her banner hanging up in her room today.

If you visit Transcona, you'll find these amazing banners on display up and down all the major streets in the BIZ. I encourage you to come on down, check them out also while visiting the Transcona Hi Neighbour Festival, happening the weekend of June 3rd. And be sure to return in the fall when this year's 65 winning entries will be up on display. Grab breakfast or lunch at the L'Arche Tova Café to make your Transcona experience complete.

May 11, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2265 Thompson Seniors Community Resource Council Mr. Eric Redhead (Thompson): I'm pleased to recog- nize the Thompson Seniors Community Resource Council for their outstanding work in providing essen- tial programs and services to the senior citizens of Thompson. The council is a non-profit organization dedicated to identifying the needs of elders in the com munity and responding to those needs, and improving the quality of life for seniors in the area. And their commitment to this mission is truly admirable.

The seniors community resource council provides a safe and welcoming space for seniors to gather and participate in a variety of activities. These activities include exercise classes, art workshops, technology education and social events, all of which promote physical and mental well -being among the seniors community. The council also offers transportation services for seniors who are unable to get around on their own, ensuring that they're able to attend medical appoint - ments and other important engagements.

This summer they're even offering cycling programs for seniors and elders with disabilities where groups of two can book private cycle tours. Another important program provided by the council is the food hamper service program. This service delivers food hampers to low -income seniors who face mobility challen ges, helping them ensure that they receive the nutrition they need to maintain good health. This program is especially important for seniors who are living alone and otherwise may not have access to regular meals.

This council also provides a range of res ources, information and advocacy for seniors and their families, including information about health, grief support, legal issues and financial planning. This information is crucial for seniors who may be facing difficult decisions about their future, and guidance can be a great help navigating these challenges. Overall, the Thompson Seniors Community Resource Council is doing fantastic work in supporting– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Some Honourable Members: Leave. Madam Speaker: Is there leave to allow the member to complete his statement? [Agreed] Mr.

Redhead: Thank you. I'll be brief. The council is doing fantastic work in supporting senior citizens in Thompson. Their commitment to providing a safe and supportive environment for seniors, as well as their dedication to promoting health and well-being, is truly inspiring. I commend the council for their efforts and wish them continued success in the future. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Grace Hospital Day Hon. Kevin E.

Klein (Minister of Environment and Climate): I rise today to recognize Grace day, May 12th, 2023, dedicated to honouring the ongoing support of the Grace Hospital, the Grace foundation, the health -care professionals, staff and our com - munity's Grace foundation supporters. The Grace Hospital has a reach –a rich history deeply rooted in our community. Incorporated in 1904 as the Salvation Army Grace General Hospital, it has been a beacon of hope and healing for over a century.

From its humble beginnings as a rescue home for women and children on Ross Avenue to its present-day modern facility at 300 Booth Dr., the Grace Hospital has continuously evolved to meet the health-care needs of Kirkfield Park, Winnipeg and Manitobans throughout our province. Throughout the years, the Grace Hospital has been a pillar of strength and compassion, providing excep- tional health-care services to Manitobans. The hospital's commitments to excellence has earned the trust and gratitude of our community. The Grace foundation has played a vital role in supporting the hospital's mission.

Since established in 1990, the foundation has tirelessly raised millions of dollars to enhance patient care, improve facilities and provide leading research medical equipment. Their unwavering dedication has hel ped shape the Grace Hospital into the remarkable institution it is today. On Grace day, we come together to express our deep appreciation for the extraordinary contributions of Grace Hospital staff, medical professionals and the Grace Hospital Foundation. I also want to thank our Premier (Mrs.

Stefanson) for the $30-million investment to allow for a sig nifi- cant expansion of the intensive -care unit and for the $77 million that has been provided since taking government for multiple upgrades.

2266 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 11, 2023 I ask my colleagues in the House to join me in show- ing appreciation to Jon Einarson, executive director of the Grace Hospital Foundation; Jeff Coleman, chair of the Grace Hospital Foundation; Bruce Lillie, chair of the Grace Hospital Day. Thank you all, and thank you, Madam Speaker. Manitoba Remote Learning Support Centre Mr. Nello Altomare (Transcona): Recently, the PC government announced that the Manitoba remote learning centre will be shuttered next month.

I've had the opportunity to speak with a number of f amilies about this, and I'm grateful to all of them for sharing their stories. What I heard from many of them is that the remote learning centre is hugely beneficial and some- times the only option for students with significant health and learning needs. While the Manitoba remote learning centre began as a temporary measure in response to the pandemic, it has become very different from the remote learning experienced by many families during COVID.

During these past number of years, staff have developed a comprehensive programming focusing on com - munity, student efficacy and autonomy. The program has been able to successfully address a wide variety of issues that prevented students from attending and succeeding in a regular school setting. Many students us ing the Manitoba remote learning centre have been prevented from attending in-person school due to complex health and learning needs.

By eliminating triggers such as bright lights, loud noises, the Manitoba remote learning centre was able to provide a space where students could focus on their learning and also provide needed flexibility. Some students had even joined classes from the hospital, Madam Speaker. Another interesting piece I heard from com - municating from parents is that the Manitoba remote learning centre made financial sense. Traditional school settings require a lot of resources to provide the support, and what Manitoba remote learning centre did is that they were able to receive this support without extra cost.

It is lamentable, Madam Speaker, that the govern- ment does not seem to have considered the positive impact this program had on these students with unique learning needs when they decided to shut down the remote learning centre. The cancellation of the Manitoba remote learning centre has left many families feeling frustrated because an education support that worked for their kids is being removed. I encourage the government to listen to these families and reconsider their decision. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Health-Care Forum in Tyndall Park Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): On April 30th, I participated in a health -care panel in Tyndall Park with a nurse of 30 years, a STARS paramedic and our local Member of Parliament. It was a productive meeting, and I was encour - aged by the fe edback shared by so many who are working or were working in our health- care system and many who have had experiences within our health- care system over the last few years. Everyone had a lot of insight and experiences to share.

The main takeaways from the forum included how our health-care system desperately needs a lot more attention, how we need to do better at recognizing health-care credentials while also retaining our current health-care workers and how many seniors cannot afford their prescribed med ications, and there is a concern that a two -tier health system may be happening. Madam Speaker, Seven Oaks hospital is a com - munity hospital, and with how rapidly the community is growing, it does not make sense to have what was supposed to be a major hospital so underutilized.

Because of the concerns and ideas around Seven Oaks hospital that were raised at the forum, I made a posting on social media last week calling on those who work at Seven Oaks to reach out. I've since spoken with quite a few people who work in various roles at the hospital, and they all have very valuable ideas that they would like to share with this government.

So I'm calling on this government to revisit Seven Oaks hospital, reconsider some of the changes that have been made over the last few years, and turn it into a health-care facility that it is capable of being so that the residents of Tyndall Park, as well as The Maples and Burrows and Kildonan, all have a health- care facility close to home. Thank you, Madam Speaker. * (14:00)

May 11, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2267 Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: I have some guests that I would like to intro duce to you, and before they leave the gallery, in the public gallery, we have, from Dauphin Regional Comprehensive Secondary School, 42 grade 9 students under the direction of Steff Matskiw. And this group is located in the constituency of the hon- ourable member for Dauphin (Mr. Michaleski). We welcome you all to the Manitoba Legislature. And I would like to draw the attention of all hon- ourable members to the Speaker's Gallery, where we have with us today Mr.

Greg Quinn, British consul general, and Mr. Dwight MacAulay, British honorary consul in Winnipeg. On behalf of all honour able members here, we welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature. ORAL QUESTIONS Education System New Funding Model Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): In November of 2021, in one of her first acts, the Premier announced that she was going to create a new education funding model for Manitoba schools. It was supposed to be released this past February.

However, last fall, the Premier reversed course and said that she was going to delay the release of this funding model until after this year's election. And now we know why. We have seen the model. We have it in our hands. And it's not good for schools in Manitoba. The PC Premier is hiding this funding model because she doesn't want to see Manitobans have–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –access to the cuts that they are planning to make in our K-to-12 system. I'll table it so that we can pierce the shroud – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –of secrecy.

Millions of dollars cut for schools in Pembina Trails, in–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –St. James-Assiniboia, Louis Riel, Seven Oaks school divisions and more. Why is the Premier hiding her plan to cut school funding in our province? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): Madam Speaker, we're very proud of this budget that was just tabled in the Manitoba Legislature that offered a $100 million increase to the Education budget. That is more money for edu cation. In fact, every single school division right across the province of Manitoba received an increase. Those are the facts, Madam Speaker.

And the Leader of the Opposition and every member opposite voted against that. So, while they claim to care about our kids' edu- cation, they claim to want to spend more money on education, Madam Speaker, they had an oppor tunity to support a budget that had significant, record increases to education in the province of Manitoba, and they voted against it. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, the Stefanson gov ern- ment will say an ything to try and get re -elected.

But now, through these documents, we see what will happen if they get another–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –term in office. Under this new education funding model that the PCs have developed, kids and educators in the Louis Riel School Division will see their funding cut by $10 million. Pembina Trails is going to be cut by four and a half million dollars. The Interlake School Division, they'll be cut by $3 million. This is the Premier's plan to cut funding for schools in Manitoba. It says that this is the funding model, not for distribu- tion.

We think Manitobans deserve to see it before they vote this year. Will the Premier tell the House why she's hiding this from Manitobans? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order, please. Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, Manitobans remember a desperate NDP government at a time right on the eve of an election where they said that they wouldn't raise taxes. They went door to door, to every single Manitoban, Madam Speaker. They told them they weren't going to raise the PST. And what did they do as soon as they got elected? They raised the PST.

Those are the des perate tactics of the NDP. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

2268 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 11, 2023 The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: You know, Madam Speaker, the Premier can attack all she wants, but what's missing from her answer is very telling. She does not deny that this is the plan that the PCs will implement if they g et another term. She doesn't deny that they're planning to cut school funding in Manitoba. In addition to the divisions that I was listing earlier, St. James -Assiniboia is going to face a $9-million cut for their annual school funding.

The Lord Selkirk School Division will have their funding cut by $8 million. These cuts to school funding are wrong. If the Premier won't tell the House why she is hiding this cut from Manitobans, perhaps the members who represent these con stituencies will stand up and let Manitobans–whether they've seen these cuts either. Mrs. Stefanson: What we have stated, Madam Speaker, is that we will be out consulting Manitobans when it comes to the funding model moving forward. No decision has been made on that funding model.

So the Leader of the Op position can table all of the irrelevant documents he wants, but those are not the facts. The facts are, Madam Speaker, when it comes to education, we had $100- million increase to the budget. Every single school division got a significant increase to their budgets. That's more money for edu- cation. That's more money for our students. We care about education. If the Leader of the Opposition and the members opposite cared so much about the education system in our province, why did they vote against these historic investments in our education system?

Madam Speaker: And I would just remind members, before everybody gets all wound up, we do have students in the gallery. So, they're here to learn. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Mr. Kinew: I think the PC plan to cut school funding is very relevant to students and to families and to people right across the province. When you pay attention to the Premier's answer, you will see that sh e is acknowledging that these are the real documents created by this government. I will table them for everyone in the–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –province of Manitoba to see.

There are 16,000 kids in the Louis Riel School Division. It's very relevant that this PC government is planning to cut their funding by millions of dollars – $15 million, when we look at Pembina Trails–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –and Louis Riel school divisions combined. The biggest school division by population, Winnipeg School Division, will see their funding cut by another $2.5 million. These are very serious cuts that this provincial government under the PCs is entertaining.

Will the Premier explain to the people of Manitoba why she wanted to hide these docu ments before they had a chance to vote this year? Mrs. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, I just stated to this House, to the Leader of the Opposi tion, that no deci- sions have been made whatsoever when it comes to a funding model. We are continuing to consult Manitobans. We want to make sure that we get it right. We, on this side of the House, listen to Manitobans–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: –and act accordingly, Madam Speaker.

We want to ensure that school divisions –every school division–gets an increase, Madam Speaker. That's why we put that in this budget this year: signi- ficant and historic invest ments in our education system. And what did members opposite do? They voted against it. They have no credibility, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Premier for acknowl edging that these are the docu - ments that her gov ernment created for a new edu ca- tion funding model in Manitoba.

They provided direction to people who created this document, and based on their direction–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –school divisions like Louis Riel, like Seven Oaks, like Lord Selkirk, like Pembina Trails – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

May 11, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2269 Mr. Kinew: –like St. James-Assiniboia are looking at having their funding cut by millions and millions of dollars. That's if the PCs get re -elected. Now, of course, the PCs wanted to hide this until after Manitobans had a chance to vote this year. Will this Premier explain to the people of Manitoba why she didn't want to share her plan before you had a chance to vote? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. I'm going to call the members to order. Mrs.

Stefanson: Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition can say whatever he wants and table whatever documents he wants. That's his right. * (14:10) But the facts are this: We just tabled in this House, and we debated on a budget, Madam Speaker, that had record and historic increases to our education system right across this great province of ours. Each and every single school division got significant increases.

In fact–and I think the Leader of the Oppos ition, other members, have mentioned–the Louis Riel School Division, an 8.4 per cent increase; over $8 -million increase to that school division alone in madam –in Manitoba, Madam Speaker. Those are sig nificant investments for better education for our kids. We care about our kids. We want to ensure that they get the investments they need in edu cation. Madam Speaker, if the leader in the–of the opposition and the members opposite cared so much, why did they vote against significant and historic increases to our education system.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Well, one thing's clear: we've established that this is the plan that the PCs developed behind closed doors to cut millions of dollars in funding every year from schools in Manitoba. The other thing that this establishes is the motiva- tion for the other major issue we've been dealing with here this week. Many Manitobans have been wondering, why are they cutting sch ool funding? Well, it's because they continue to give cheques–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Kinew: –to billionaires, with money that is taken from revenue that should be funding our schools. When you look at the Louis Riel School Division, Pembina Trails, Lord Selkirk, St. James -Assiniboia, Seven Oaks and so on down the list, and they're facing cuts under this new educa tion funding model of millions of dollars per year, and then you look and see that this PC gov ernment is giving Loblaws a cheque for more than $300,000; it shows just completely how out of touch this PC government is with the priorities of Manitobans.

We already know why the Premier did not want– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Mrs. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, if the Leader of the Opposition, again, cared so much about educa tion funding, then he would've voted in favour of our bud- get that had more than $100 million more to education in the province of Manitoba. He chose to vote against that. But the m ember opposite mentioned Louis Riel School Division. They got an 8.4 per cent increase; more than $8 million, Madam Speaker. He also mentioned Pembina Trails School Division, who got a 13.2 per cent increase in–or, over $10 million.

He also mentioned Seven Oaks School Division: a 3.8 per cent increase, or a $3.3-million increase. St. James-Assiniboia: a $3.7-million increase, or an 8.1 per cent increase. Those are the facts. We are making record and historic investments in our education system in the province of Manitoba. Pembina Trails School Division Government Funding Plan Mr. Nello Altomare (Transcona): They know they've been underfunding–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Altomare: –public education since 2016. It's been 0.5, 0.5, 0.5–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Altomare: –and then all of a sudden, Madam Speaker, they show up in the year of an election and they announce some funding pieces, right? They know that that has been their record: underfunding since 2016. And now we know why. They've come up with this model, and yet they won't share it with the people that needed the very dollars that they say they're provi- ding. And under this new model, the PCs would cut funding to Pembina Trails by four and a half million, Madam Speaker.

2270 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 11, 2023 And they've already had to cut their full-day kinder- garten program. So my question is simple: will the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) tell the House why she's planning to cut four and a half million from Pembina Trails? Hon. Sarah Guillemard (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): Members opposite are clearly very adept at fear mongering and putting unfactual words on the record. That's unfortunate, because Manitobans deserve the truth. And Manitobans–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs.

Guillemard: –remember, under the NDP gov - ernment for 17 years, how horrible the school systems felt for their own children–mine included. We had children who lost their library spaces. We had children who lost their art spaces. We had children who lost their gym spaces because they had to learn in the hallways under this group over here–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Guillemard: –who mismanaged education, under- funded and never listened to the needs of the children or the teachers in the system. Madam Speaker: Honourable member for Transcona, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Altomare: They know they've been under - funding education since 2016. They can't even defend their record. They come here and they try to put these w ords on the record, showing that they completely mis - understand the needs of Manitoba students. They know that they planned to cut. It says it right there in that document, and it's been tabled. I'll table another page of that document–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Altomare: –that shows the same thing, just in case they need to see it again. And so who pays the price?

Teachers, EAs, librarians, students, extracurricular programs that are very im portant. This 4 -and-a-half-million-dollar c ut to Pembina Trails is going to hurt, and they know it. Will the Premier finally do the right thing and stop cutting public education? Mrs. Guillemard: Only members opposite of the NDP party would call a 23 per cent increase since 2016 a cut. And may be, Madam Speaker, this high- lights the problems under their previous gov ernment for 17 years where they introduced a new math pro - gram that saw our students go from middle -of-the- pack performance to dead last in math and science.

Madam Speaker, I hope the member opposite, while he was in the admin istration in the school system, also recognized how detrimental that was to our students. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Transcona, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Altomare: You know, we don't even know what the actual numbers are in the latest FRAME docu - ments. The latest FRAME documents are from 2021. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Altomare: We don't even know what they actually invested in education, so we can't even–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Altomare: –see where it's going to go next.

But we do have a document that's created by them, by their funding formula, and right now it's being released. And it's about time, Madam Speaker, because cuts like this are eliminating necessary programs in our schools. That is shameful and unnecessary. Will the Premier finally do the right thing and commit to stop cutting public education today af ter emerging from the pandemic? An Honourable Member: Hitting a nerve on that side.

Madam Speaker: Where the nerve is being hit is mine, with all this heckling that is going on, and I'm going to remind everybody again that I would like everybody to be more respectful to each other, to be more civil to each other and let's get to hear the questions and the answers. Mrs. Guillemard: Again, the member opposite really highlights that none of the members opposite agree with due process or consul tation with stake holders.

That's unfor tunate, and I hope that the edu cation system and those who work within it are paying close attention that the members opposite have stated time and time again they will inter fere in multiple pro - cesses where they should not. We respect the process. We respect the feedback we get from the people who are working front lines, and we will continue t o listen to them. And, Madam

May 11, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2271 Speaker, we have invested record numbers into the education system in this budget alone. And I will say that the members opposite are trying to distract from these record investments because they voted against them. Seven Oaks School Division Government Funding Plan MLA Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Well, Madam Speaker, all of the PC members support and celebrate cutting our schools, and that's what the PCs' new funding model for education does.

And top of that, they're trying to hide it from Manitobans right before a provincial election. * (14:20) This new model cuts nearly $11 million from the Seven Oaks School Division. I will table the docu- ment. That means cutting teachers from classrooms and after-school programs. Why is the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) cutting nearly a million dollars from the students in Seven Oaks School Division? Hon. Sarah Guillemard (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): I know the member opposite has access to all of the details that we have submitted within the budget.

She has spent time debating that budget and asking questions. We've just been through Estimates, and we'll continue today, where we go through all the details. So, I'm going to share on the record for the member opposite's benefit: that Beautiful Plains School Division, they received a 12.4 per cent increase; Border Land School Division received a 4.2 per cent increase; Brandon School Division received a 10.2 per cent increase; the DSFM school division received a 3.8 per cent increase; Evergreen School Division received a 6.4 per cent increase– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired.

The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. MLA Fontaine: Seven Oaks has already had to make cuts to supports for schools, like laying off teaching staff, eliminating programs like Learn to Swim, closing after -school and summer programs, and eliminating the school bus transportation for grades 7 to 12 students. But that's not enough for members opposite; they want to cut even more. Now they want to cut Seven Oaks' funding by $11 million. Why is the Premier cutting nearly $11 million from Seven Oaks School Division, when they've already been forced to cut so much? Mrs.

Guillemard: I will continue with the list: Seven Oaks School Division received a 3.8 per cent increase in funding in this budget alone. I will point out, as well, the member is going down a slippery slope when she wants to step on the autonomy of school divisions in terms of the program, and they decide–I hope–[interjection]–I would hope– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: The honour able Minister of Advanced Education, to complete her answer. Mrs. Guillemard: I would hope that all school divisions are paying close attention to the words that members opposite are saying.

They know exactly what's coming down the line. And, Madam Speaker, I will say that that – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Guillemard: –3.8 per cent represents $3.329-million increase to the Seven Oaks School Division this year. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary. MLA Fontaine: The minister seems to have forgotten Bill 64, which, thank God for us on this side of the House that we killed that very outrageous bill.

Seven Oaks School Division is already struggling under seven years of cuts by each and every one of those members, and now the PCs want to cut funding to the Seven Oaks School Division by nearly $11 million. That is beyond shameful, and Manitoba children will suffer because of them. These cuts will hurt kids and educators in our Seven Oaks School Division. Will the Premier stop her plan to cut $11 million from the Seven Oaks School Division today? Mrs.

Guillemard: While members opposite talk about the what-ifs, we already know what they would do because we've seen for 17 years how they dis - mantled the education–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

2272 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 11, 2023 Mrs. Guillemard: –system through underfunding, through interference. And they will continue to do so if they ever reach government again. Madam Speaker, Louis Riel School Division received 8.4 per cent increase into–in this year's budget; that's over $8 million more this year. Mystery Lakes school division received a 3.3 per cent increase; Par k West School Division received a 10.4 per cent increase; Pembina Trails received 13.2 per cent–that's over $10 million increase to their funding this year. Louis Riel School Division Government Funding Plan Mr.

Jamie Moses (St. Vital): Madam Speaker, while the PC government continues to choose to hand cheques over to billionaires instead of funding kids in class - rooms here in Manitoba, they propose a new funding model which would take even more money out of classrooms. The Louis Riel School Divis ion's funding model will cut over $10 million with this new PC funding model. That's $10 million that would go to hire more teachers, EAs or staff to support kids in the classroom that need help to succeed. That is simply unacceptable, Madam Speaker. Will the Premier (Mrs.

Stefanson) tell the House today why she plans to cut $10 million from the 16,000 students in Louis Riel School Division? Hon. Sarah Guillemard (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): Clearly, math is not a strong suit of members opposite, nor is listening and understanding what they're hearing. I'm–I will continue with a list of the invest ments we've made in this year's budget so that the member can have some clarity on that, but I do want to reflect on that members opposit e have continually been concerned about rebates.

They don't understand how a gov ernment can actually give tax rebates while increasing the edu cation funding, and that should worry every single–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Guillemard: –Manitoban in this province, because they don't have the ability to function in that realm of understanding economic growth, and how you can invest in these services. I'm happy to continue to educate members oppo- site in my next question. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Vital, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Moses: After seven years, Manitobans are still looking for this gov ernment's strong suit, and they haven't found it. All they've seen is cuts to education, and schools are struggling, students are struggling. Educators have made it clear that funding is not keeping up with the rate of inflation or the rate of enrolment growth, and now they want to cut an extra $10 million from Louis Riel School Division. On this of the House, we belie ve in schools. We believe in teachers; that they need more supports, not less.

Will the Premier stand up today, commit to stop cutting funding for schools, and will she commit to invest in education in Manitoba? Mrs. Guillemard: Once again, I'm just going to reiterate: only members opposite would call a 23 per cent increase since 2016 a cut. And I know that Manitobans are smarter than what the NDP wants to believe they are. It's an insult to Manitobans that they want to continue to put this on the record. Madam Speaker, Pine Creek School Division received a 5.9 per cent increase. And that reflects over $400,000 increase, not a decrease.

Madam Speaker, I can understand why members opposite are frustrated. Not only have we announced 20 new school builds, which they couldn't get any built under their govern ment, but we are also increasing funding while reducing taxes. They may not understand– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for St. Vital, on a final supplementary. Mr. Moses: Madam Speaker, we know this gov ern- ment has tried to hide their cuts to education.

That's why I'll table the documents right now that show that $10 million is being proposed to be cut from the Louis Riel School Division under this PC government's new funding model. We know their agenda is to cut from schools. And they've tried to hide it, and they've tried to put it–push it back to past the next election. It's unpre cedented, Madam Speaker. Another $10 -million cut from the students of Louis Riel School Division? Unacceptable.

May 11, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2273 * (14:30) Will the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) stand up today and change course? Will she abandon her plan and actually invest in schools in Manitoba? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Well, if ev erybody wants to hear the answer, let's have some quiet in the room and let's hear the answer from the honour able Gov ernment House Leader. Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Acting Minister of Educa- tion and Early Child hood Learning): Well, we remember for many years when students, at this time of the year, they would walk through schools, and you know what they'd hear that sound? Drip, drip, drip. Because there was buckets all over the floors of the schools, Madam Speaker, because the roofs were leaking all ove r Manitoba, because that former gov- ernment refused to put money into schools, into teachers, into education, so schools were falling apart. The kids were walking around with their umbrellas.

It was this gov ernment that brought in record funding for capital, for operation. Astronomical funding, and there's more to come, Madam Speaker. St. James-Assiniboia School Division Government Funding Plan Mr. Adrien Sala (St. James): This PC government is hiding their plans to cut millions from local school divisions. As we've heard today, we obtained the secret PC plan for the new education funding model, and it cuts nearly $9 million from the St. James - Assiniboia School Division.

This new funding model is nothing more than another way for the PC government to take money out of our schools so they can turn it around and give it to out-of-province billionaires. Our schools need support now more than ever. Will the Premier commit today to stopping her plan to cut millions in funding for kids in St. James? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: I'm going to call members to order. If you want me to start identifying who you are, I will. Your constituents won't be very appreciative. Hon.

Cliff Cullen (Minister of Finance): Everybody on this side of the House wants to get up and answer this question, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, let the record show the members are throwing hypothetical stuff on the table. The reality is a 6.1 per cent increase to funding for educa- tion in Manitoba; NDP, Liberals voted against it. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. James, on a supplementary question. Mr. Sala: I will table the document that shows nearly $9 million in proposed cuts to kids in St. James - Assiniboia School Division.

That money should be going into our classrooms to make sure our kids have the resources that they need to succeed. This PC government has made it clear that their plan for education is more and more cuts. They tried to hide it from Manitobans until after the election, and we think that's wrong. Will the Premier stop standing up for billionaires and stop cutting education for kids in St. James today? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Order. I am going to recognize the honour able Minister for Seniors and Long-Term Care, but I would ask him to put his response through the Chair. Hon.

Scott Johnston (Minister of Seniors and Long-Term Care): I would indicate to the member that, as a former trustee in the St. James -Assiniboia School D ivision, I would have actually died for an 8.1 per cent increase to ensure that the students of St. James-Assiniboia are continuing to receive the best education they can. Under the NDP gov ernment, Madam Speaker, when I was there, we had to close schools because of a lack of funding. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. James, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Sala: I would indicate to the member from Assiniboia that he should read his gov ernment's own plan to cut funding to kids in his community. This PC government has been cutting funding to our schools for seven years. Schools are reaching a breaking point and are having to make impossible decisions about cutting programs and services that our kids rely on. Another $9 million in cuts to kids and educators in St. James -Assiniboia will mean fewer resources in classrooms, and they've already had to cut the IB program in St. James-Assiniboia. Manitoban students deserve so much better.

2274 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 11, 2023 Will the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) do the right thing and commit to stopping her cuts for kids in west Winnipeg today? Hon. Sarah Guillemard (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): Thank you, Madam Speaker, and–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Mrs. Guillemard: –the leader for St. James –sorry, the member for St. James clearly has not been listen - ing to the answers he's been given–[interjection] Madam Speaker: I'm going to call everybody to order. There's a lot of heckling going back and forth, a lot of comments being made.

I'm going to actually ask the front benches on both sides to rein it in because we do have to hear what the answers are. And I'm going to ask everybody, and no point in wagging fingers because it's happening from all sides. So, I am going to ask for everybody's co-operation. If you want to get named, just keep it up, but I think we've had enough today of the disrespect that is being shown on this floor. So I'm going to ask for everybody's co-operation, please. Let's listen to the answers and let's listen to the questions. [interjection] Order. Mrs.

Guillemard: Madam Speaker, 6.1 per cent increase, over $100 million invested in increases to education. That is an increase, not a cut. Housing Affordability in Manitoba Cabinet Minister Housing Allowance Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): There's a housing crisis in Manitoba, so many people are having to turn to government support with the hope they can actually find a place to live. Younger genera tions are in despair, wondering whether they'll ever be able to afford to buy a house at all. And with rising interest rates, nearly one third of mortgage holders across Canada could be at risk of default.

With so many people struggling to pay for their own shelter and many being homeless, we can't help but question w hy certain MLAs in Manitoba have more lavish perks than MPs in Ottawa do. Could the Premier explain why Manitoba tax - payers who can barely afford their own rent or their own mortgage are subsidizing the purchase of second or third homes for Cabinet ministers and MLAs? Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Families): So, it's very rare that I have a point of agreement with the member for St.

Boniface, but when it comes to the need for provi ding housing in the province of Manitoba, that is a rare point of agreement. That is the reason why this government has invested significantly in housing in the province of Manitoba: 745 new units of housing since we formed office. And that is why we're committing to also work ing with housing–non-profit housing providers who are coming off of agreement to ensure that as we're growing the affordable housing stock that we are also maintaining those units that are currently under agreement. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St.

Boniface, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lamont: Madam Speaker, we're talking about Cabinet ministers already making six figures, some living barely an hour's drive from the city.

I table monthly expense reports from the govern- ment's website that show that both NDP and PC MLAs and ministers used their allowance to buy second homes: NDP Minister Steve Ashton from Thompson, NDP Minister Peter Bjornson from Gimli, NDP Minister Stan Struthers from Dauphin, NDP Minister Drew Caldwell from Brandon, the MLA for Borderland, the MLA for Brandon West, the MLA for Interlake, the MLA for Riding Mountain, the MLA for Turtle Mountain, the MLA for Red River North. Manitoba Liberals think this is unacceptable that we are subsidizing the purchase of second homes.

Does the Premier agree, and will she do anything about it? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, the member opposite will know that the allowances for all members are set by an independent officer. It's been that way for years. It's been agreed to by all members of the House. It ensures that there are in dependent rules and inde - pendent analyses done of how members can spend their money. In fact, I remember looking at the member oppo- site's expenses one year, and for whatever reason, I think he bought five MacBooks.

I have no idea why he would need five MacBooks in one year, but maybe he wants to explain it to us. * (14:40) Madam Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a final supplementary.

May 11, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2275 Trucking Industry Staffing Needs Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, trucking is one of the most important industries in our province, yet the gov ernment once again has been caught short in not supporting the manpower needs of the industry. When we met with the Mani toba Trucking Association recently, I was told their need of 4,000 more truckers today, and that the growth of the industry is being severely hampered by the lack of trained drivers. Why, in seven years, has the government failed to properly address thi s im portant issue?

And don't blame the COVID pandemic, because it would've been an ideal time to train more truckers. Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Economic Development, Investment and Trade): Certainly, we'll focus on that. I met with Aaron Dolyniuk from MTA. We're working on that; we'll continue to make that progress. Madam Speaker: According to my clock, time for oral questions has expired. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. An Honourable Member: Absolutely not. Some Honourable Members: Two seconds. Madam Speaker: Oh, okay. Order, order. The honourable member for Brandon West thinks there was two seconds left on the clock.

He may be right. I wouldn't make that big of a deal out of that. If that was the case, and I take the member's word at it. Sometimes with all the confusion and heckling, it is hard at the very end t o keep track of things, so I will recognize the honourable member for Brandon West. Direct Flights from Winnipeg to Atlanta New WestJet Route Announcement Mr. Reg Helwer (Brandon West): Last fall, our gov- ernment was proud to stand with stake holders and announce direct flights between Winnipeg and Los Angeles, which has already started paying dividends for Manitobans in the Manitoba industry.

We all know Manitoba punches well above our class in the global market, and the Minister of Economic Dev elopment, Invest ment and Trade announced further opportunities earlier today. I have– I since taken advantage of those oppor tunities, Madam Speaker. Can the minister elaborate on how we're helping build the Manitoba industry and where I'm going for a family wedding? Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Economic Development, Investment and Trade): I'd like to thank the member from Brandon West for that great question. And, Madam Speaker, I was honoured today–this morning, actually–to join our Premier (Mrs.

Stefanson) and many industry stake holders to announce that, starting this September, WestJet will be offering direct flights between Winnipeg and Atlanta. The new flights will give Manitoba businesses faster access to markets they already are doing business in–with, and open up many more future opportunities. Under our Premier's leadership, Madam Speaker, we have been able to grow this part nership, and our government is investing and provi ding $5 million to Winnipeg Airports Authority for this expansion.

Madam Speaker, with five direct flights a week and 12 months of the year, 200– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. PETITIONS Punjabi Bilingual Programs in Public Schools Mr. Nello Altomare (Transcona): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legis lative Assembly, the back ground to this petition is as follows:

(1) According to census 2021, Punjabi is the fourth most spoken language in Canada and there are 33,315 people in Manitoba whose native language is Punjabi.

(2) Thousands of Punjabi newcomers are coming to Manitoba as students and as immigrants, looking to call this province home. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Altomare: People of Punjabi origin contribute a great deal to the social, economic dev elopment of Canada and Manitoba in fields such as edu cation, science, health, business and politics.

(3) In coming to Manitoba, Punjabi new comers make sacrifices, including distance from their cultural roots and language. Many Punjabi parents and families want their children to retain their language and keep a continued cultural appreciation.

2276 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 11, 2023

(4) Manitoba has many good bilingual programs in public schools for children and teens available in other languages, including French, Ukrainian, Ojibwe, Filipino, Cree, Hebrew and Spanish. Punjabi bilingual programs for children and teens, as well as Punjabi language instruction at a college and university level, could similarly teach and maintain Punjabi language and culture.

(5) Punjabi bilingual instruction would help cross-cultural friendships, relationships and marriages and prepare young people to be multilingual profes- sionals. We therefore petition the Manitoba –Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the prov incial government to take steps to implement Punjabi bilingual programs in public schools similar to existing bilingual programs and take steps to implement Punjabi language instruction in other levels of education in Manitoba. And this pe tition, Madam Speaker, is signed by many Manitobans.

Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Diagnostic Testing Accessibility Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of this petition as follows:

(1) Until recently, diagnostic medical tests, in - cluding for blood and fluid samples, were available and accessible in most medical clinics.

(2) Dynacare bloo d test labs have consolidated their blood and fluid testing services by closing 25 of its labs.

(3) The provincial government has cut diagnostic testing at many clinic sites, and residents now have to travel to different locations to get their testing d one, even for a simple blood test or a urine sample.

(4) Further, travel challenges for vulnerable and elderly residents of northeast Winnipeg may result in fewer tests being done or delays in testing, with the attendant effects of increased health -care costs and poorer individual patient outcomes.

(5) COVID-19 emergency rules resulted in long outdoor lineups, putting vulnerable residents at further risk in extreme weather, be it hot or cold. Moreover, these long lineups have resulted in longer wait tim es for services and poorer service in general.

(6) Manitoba residents value the convenience and efficiency of the health -care system when they are able to give their samples at the time of the doctor visit. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to immediately demand Dynacare maintain all of the phlebotomy, blood sample, sites existing prior to the COVID -19 public health emergency, and allow all Manitobans to get their blood and urine tests done when visiting their doctor, thereby facilitating local access to blood testing services. And this petition's signed by many, many Manitobans.

Brandon University Funding Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) Since taking office, the provincial government has cut operating funding to post -secondary institutions such as Brandon University, while simultaneously increasing tuition and student fees.

(2) Brandon University is the only university in rural Manitoba and serves as an important hub for Westman.

(3) Brandon University is the largest university outside Winnipeg with over 2,200 full -time students and just under 1,000 part-time students.

(4) Despite the important role Brandon University plays in Manitoba, the provincial government is continuing to cut the university's funding in Budget 2023-24, as funding yet again fails to keep pace with inflation.

(5) Inadequate funding hurts students and the quality of education they receive, as it may force Brandon University to raise tuition, cut programs and services, or both.

(6) Funding cuts also negatively impact Brandon University's faculty, who are at risk of having their courses cut or being let go altogether.

(7) The provincial government has refused to expand–explain why Brandon University's 2023- 24 operating funding increase falls below inflation, and why it is lower than other universities in Manitoba. * (14:50)

May 11, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2277 We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to adequately fund Brandon University so that the institution can avoid making cuts and continue to serve students, faculty, Westman and the province of Manitoba as a whole. This petition has been signed by many Manitobans. Thank you. Drug Overdose Reporting Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Across the province, many Manitobans con- tinue to struggle with addictions, and the pandemic has led to even more deaths and worsened the ongoing public health crisis of opioid overdoses.

(2) Three hundred and seventy -two Manitobans died from an overdose in 2020; that's over one a day, and 87 per cent higher than in 2019.

(3) Manitoba is expected to exceed over 400 over- dose deaths in 2021, but the data is not publicly available since the last publ ic reporting of opioid deaths was published in 2019.

(4) The data for drug overdose deaths from 2020 and 2021 was compiled through media inquiries, and this needs to change.

(5) Access to timely data on the harms of drugs helps to inform both government and stakeholders on where to take action and target resources needed in various communities.

(6) Manitoba is the only province not provi ding regular, timely data to the federal gov ernment opioid information portal.

(7) Manitobans deserve a gov ernment that takes the growing drug crisis seriously and will report the data in a timely matter to target actions and allow for accountability. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the prov incial gov ernment to enact Bill 217, The Fatality Inquiries Amendment Act (Overdose Death Reporting), to require the Province to publish the number of drug overdose deaths, as well as the type of drug, on a gov ernment website in a timely fashion. And this has been signed by Brenda Cook, Charles Equan [phonetic], Ms. Sutherland and many others.

Madam Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business MLA Nahanni Fontaine (Official Opposition House Leader): Pursuant to rule 34(8), I am announcing that the private member's reso lution to be considered on the next Thursday of private members' busi ness will be one put forward by the honour able member for Wolseley (Ms. Naylor). The title of the reso lution is Condemning the Provincial Government for Failing to Uphold the Right to Housing for All Manitobans.

Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the private member's reso lution to be considered on the next Thursday of private members' busi ness will be the one put forward by the honour able member for Wolseley. The title of the reso lution is Condemning the Provincial Government for Failing to Uphold the Right to Housing for All Manitobans. * * * Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Could you please resolve the House into Committee of Supply. Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will consider Estimates this afternoon. This House will now resolve into Committee of Supply. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ROOM 254 CONSUMER PROTECTION AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES * (15:00) Mr. Chairperson (Dennis Smook): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Departm ent of Consumer Protection and Gov ernment Services. Questions for this department will continue in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions.

2278 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 11, 2023 Mr. Mintu Sandhu (The Maples): Nice to be back again. And yesterday, when we left off, I was just wondering, what are the numbers and the types of people bidding for their birth certificate, marriage certificate? What are those numbers? Hon. James Teitsma (Minister of Consumer Protection and Government Services): I thank the member.

And I recall, I think when I first took on this role, chatting with the member and, you know, when we were congratulating each other on our respective roles as the new minister and the new critic for Consumer Protection and Gov ernment Services, we had a chat back then. And at that time, I think the member was likely aware, because he's talking to, you know, talking to the same citizens that I'm talking to, that the wait times were significant.

I think, at the end of the January, by my records here, it was about a five -month backlog for birth certificates–for the registration of a birth certificate, and then a couple more days or weeks for the processing of the actual certificate, depending if rush service was chosen. So it was at the beginning of this year as I took on the role–about five months. We've been working very hard on that backlog, as the member knows, and we've been adding staff. So the latest infor mation I have, which is less than a week old, is showing that we're just around the two- to two-and-a-half-month mark.

So we've managed to cut the backlog more than in half in just the last–I guess that's four months. Mr. Sandhu: And, actually, I was looking at the num- bers that the minister can provide us the numbers. How many people –what is the ba cklog with the numbers? Hundreds? Thousands? Mr. Teitsma: Yes. And I think I was mentioning yesterday that I hesitate to spell it out in those terms because the nature of the work is that there's just an incredible volume that has to go through the Vita l Statistics office on an annual basis. I believe the number was 125,000 events are typically going through the system.

And so that's a few thousand–a couple thousand every week. So even if, you know, we had the wait times down to, say, three weeks, you would still have a backlog with 6,000 in it. So I don't have a specific backlog number to share with the member, but I'm just –I'm very optimistic that we've made north of a 50 per cent improvement. I've made it clear to my staff that that's ap pre- ciated, but also not our final target. We're committed to completely eliminating that backlog and getting our service times, you know, better than our targeted amounts. Mr. Sandhu: Actually, this is so disappointing.

Like, the minister have the numbers, like a month, but he doesn't have the numbers. Can he maybe under take to provi ding us these numbers by –in a week or so? You know, because when we have the–we know there's a wait -list is two and a half months to three months, but the numbers should be there, too, right? Mr. Teitsma: Mr. Chair, I'll start by just correcting the member. It's currently under two and a half months; it's closer to two months backlog. So, as I said, a sig- nificant improvement, less than half the size that it was just a few short months ago.

I appreciate the member's desire to get a number on that backlog, so I do agree that I can–I'll take that– my department will take that as an under taking and we'll endeavour to provide those numbers. And if–and some context around it, too, to help, you know, ensure that there's realistic ex pectations on the part of the member and on the part of the public as they see those numbers. So, yes, I appre ciate the inquiry and yes, I will take it as an undertaking. Mr. Sandhu: Thank you to the minister and the staff for providing those numbers later on.

When people don't get their event certificate on time, what is the effect on Manitobans? Or can the minister maybe just–if they don't get their birth certificate on time or they don't get their death certificate on time or they don't get their marriage certificate on time, what is the effect on Manitobans? Mr. Teitsma: I thank the member and I think–I hope the member can appreciate a couple things.

One is that those impacts aren't necessarily some- thing that's in my departmental purview, and, as such, he has probably as much insight as I would, or any other MLA would, as to how this is impacting our constituents. But the member and I have both chatted about some of the impacts, so I think we're both reasonably familiar. You know, an example would be a delay in

May 11, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2279 the registration of birth can result in a delay in the payment of child tax benefits. Usually those payments are made retroactively, and so it does catch up. But that payment can really be impactful to families, and that's, you know, one of the reasons that I've really prioritized the birth registration backlog as some thing that needs to be addressed thoroughly. Other impacts, the member would know, right – we've spoken w ith individuals who are under a time constraint to get a passport.

And in those cases I think the member would agree, and I believe I mentioned yesterday, the department does make every effort that when a member comes to an MLA's office to say, look, this is my circumstance, and they're vetted there, and the MLA agrees that they have a reasonable request to get their certificate faster than most other Manitobans, that when those escalations are sent into my office, they are dealt with, you know, quite promptly and effectively. And I think that that reality does help to mitigate and minimize the impacts of these delays.

But I don't want to pretend that they're not impactful, the member knows that I know that they are, and the member knows that they are, and the constituents that we have to deal with regularly know. And I know the other MLAs in my caucus and his caucus and among the Liberals also have helped, you know, have had contact with people in these situations where their delays are impacting them. And, you know, some we've been able to assist, but with others it is sometimes just a matter of patience to ensure that, you know, say, the birth is registered so the child tax benefits flow.

Yes, we ask for patience on that. * (15:10) But, as I indicated, you know, we've managed to cut our backlog on birth registrations by nearly – actually by more than two and a half months, in the three and a half months since I've been in the role as minister. I'm optimistic we'll be able to continue to reduce that b acklog at a sig nificant pace over the coming few months and have a much better situation by the time we get into the summer and fall. Mr.

Sandhu: Last season, my colleague, the MLA for Keewatinook, pushed for a change regarding name registration to allow for traditional Indigenous characters and names to be registered. Unfor tunately, the PC government didn't support my colleague's bill, but later amended the Vital Stats act to make this change. Does the minister have any stats on the number of names that have been registered using the newly allowed characters and the names? Mr. Teitsma: Yes, thank you for that question. Mr.

Chair, I think the member will agree that it was im portant to do that work that was brought forward by my predecessor under B ill 3. And I think the number of that bill should indicate the relative priority that it was to our government, that it was very important to 'bensure' that it got addressed early in the session. And I'm recalling that it did receive unanimous support from all parties, and I was very happy about that, that we could move forward in that way.

Before I get into the number, I just–I want to spell out, I think, for the member–just to ensure he's aware– that, while Manitoba and some other provinces are doing well in this regard and ensuring that these special characters for Indigenous names and even some other cultures –Scandinavian comes to mind, that they–these–characters can be used, there's still a gap. And that gap is that, at a federal level, federal documents don't support some of these special characters. So, for example, you can't get a passport with these characters on it, and that's formed a barrier.

So some families that might have wanted to include these characters in their child's name, when th ey find out that they can't get a passport with that in it–and that might create issues for travel for that child for, you know, some time, potentially –some of them decide not to proceed at this time. And so I think the numbers are perhaps lower than we might think that they could be or would be, and I think they are lower than they would be if the federal government had been catching up. So the latest number I have is kind of stale, it's as of February the 1st.

And, as of February the 1st, there were 11 such instances that had been registered in–at Vital Statistics. Mr. Sandhu: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the minister too. And we will be moving to RTB now, and want to know, what is–the current vacancy rate is at RTB? Mr. Teitsma: I'll note with some amusement that the question is a little ambiguous, because when you talk about vacancies and the resi dential tenancies board, usually we're thinking about how many apartments might be available, you know, in the city or in the province. But I'm pretty confident that the member,

2280 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 11, 2023 instead, was referring to the number of full -time equivalents and the number of staff in the division. So there's 57 full-time equivalents in the budget. Right now, there are four vacancies, which results in a 7 per cent vacancy rate. Mr. Sandhu: How many above -guideline increase requests did the RTB receive in 2022-23? * (15:20) Mr. Teitsma: I thank the member for the question. Residential tenancies board actually tracks those numbers on a calendar-year basis, so I don't have the fiscal-year breakdown for him.

But I can say, in the calendar year of 2022 –so that's January 1st to December 31st of 2022–there were 353 above-guide- line rent increases that were received by the resi den- tial tenancies board. Mr. Sandhu: How many of them were approved? Mr. Teitsma: I thank the member. Yes, just for the purposes of clarity, it probably would be wise to talk through the process to ensure that everything's understood. So when a–when an above-guideline rent increase is made, there's three, I would say, possible outcomes.

So, one outcome is that there's no basis for the above- guideline rent increase, in which case the application was made almost in error or by an effort of the landlord that was very misguided. That's rare, but last year there was about 10 of those. And so those ones result in the application being withdrawn. Then the other two outcomes that can occur is that the rent increase is approved exactly as provided by the landlord, so the landlord said, look, these and these and these are my expenses, and this and this and this is why I want this increase, and the residential tenancies board approves it.

And then the third thing is that the application is made for the above-guideline rent increase, and parts of that application are denied by the resi dential tenancies board. Well, they'll say, no, the amount of the increase that you're applying for is too high, and so they'll instead grant a lower above -guideline rent increase instead. Mr. Sandhu: So, 353 above -guideline applications were made, 10 were withdrawn; so that leaves with 343. So all 343 were approved with, maybe, what they were asking for, or them –like, what those numbers are–so, like? Mr.

Teitsma: Yes, I don't have the breakdown of how many were approved as –for the amount that they applied and how many approved for a lower rate. But I do know that that's not uncommon for there to be approvals made, but for a lower amount. Mr. Sandhu: So, 353 applied, 10 withdrawn, 343 ap- proved; so that' s 100 per cent approved. And how many Manitobans were affected by this rent increase? Mr. Teitsma: I thank the member. I don't have the number directly related to the 343 applications that were approved or approved for a lower rate from last year. But I do have kind of an overview of what happens.

Because this is not a –above-guideline rent increases, as the member would know from question period, is not a new process. It's not even a process that was changed at all by our government. It's a process that was set in place, I believe, by an NDP government back in the day and even administered by someone who's sitting as a current NDP MLA, the member for Fort Garry (Mr. Wasyliw). The member for Fort Garry was in charge of approving a large number of these types of approvals. So, you know, on average, over a 13-year period, there's about 346 applications made per year, and this year we're talking about 353.

So that's right on average. On average, there's 10 applications withdrawn, and last year there were 10 applications withdrawn. On average, the percentage rate approval is below the actual –sorry, the percentage rate applied for is higher than the actual percentage rate granted by roughly the same percentage, about 2 and a half or 3 per cent reduction. And on average, between 20 and 25 thousand units are impacted by above -guideline rent increases each year. Mr. Sandhu: So if the minister's –so they were around–between 20 to 25 thousand units that were affected this year? Mr. Teitsma: That's right. Mr.

Sandhu: So what was the highest approved increase–was this year? * (15:30) Mr. Teitsma: I thank the member for the question. I don't have that level of detail. We have averages, and I think the member might be already familiar with those averages. But what I will point out is that, you know, rent controls in Manitoba, generally speaking,

May 11, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2281 roll forward at a calculated or prescribed rate. There's a formula for it. And our government interrupted that formula for 2022 and 2023 by setting the rent incre ase guideline to zero per cent. I think that's unprecedented in the history of our province to have two zero per cent increases in a year. I think the member knows why we're doing that. And certainly, that's, I think, some - thing that's going to contribute to or that has contribu- ted to better results for tenants and ability for tenants to have some cost certainty as we went through the pandemic. Mr.

Sandhu: Actually, my question was, what was the highest approved increase above guideline? Mr. Teitsma: Yes, and I began with my answer saying I don't have that number. Mr. Sandhu: Can the minister undertake to providing these numbers? Mr. Teitsma: I appreciate–I think the member might be looking for some kind of a sensational number or something alo ng those lines, but I would hesitate –I would recom mend that, you know, from a policy - crafting perspective, it's more important to look at the averages and to see what, you know, what the holistic plan is.

Because when you get to the fringe of any data set–and maybe the member has studied maths in uni- versity like I have–you know, there's always going to be an outlier of some sort. And I can imagine, you know, I think of some apartment buildings in my community that were sorely run down and poorly maintained and you could barely convince somebody to live there for 600 bucks a month. And then a new owner came along and in- vested tens of thousands of dollars in each unit. I'm sure a significant increase to the rent was had there.

As a percentage-wise, it's probably quite a signi - ficant number, but it's also not parti cularly relevant because at the end of the day, these apartments were turned into something that–like a–just a much, much better unit, a unit in which people would want to live. So i t's more im portant, I think, to look at the overall market, to look in terms of affordability, in terms of the Rent Assist programs that you can ask the Minister of Families (Ms.

Squires) about and the ways that we try to ensure that tenants are treated fairly in our province, and that landlords are also encouraged to make invest ments to improve the quality of properties and improve the security of the tenants and their properties and create a–you know, better outcomes for all Manitobans. Mr. Sandhu: The minister said it is better to look at the average, so maybe, can the minister provide the average above-guideline that was last year? Mr. Teitsma: Yes, the average approved above-guide- line rate was 9.8 per cent.

The averaged approved above-guideline ra te over the last 13 years was 9.9 per cent, so last year's average was slightly lower than the average over the last 13 years. An Honourable Member: Maybe you should do something about that. Mr. Teitsma: You want to make it higher? [interjection] No, I said, do you want to make it higher? Mr. Chairperson: The honourable member for The Maples. Mr.

Sandhu: I also want to find out those AGIs, were they–increases were concentrators in certain areas or were they just the–all over the city, all over Manitoba or were, like, most of the applications –out of 353, were they in downtown, like, say, south side? Do you got those numbers? Mr. Teitsma: I thank the member for the question. Not really sure where he's going on that, but that information is generally not made public.

Individual landlords have their relationships with their tenants, and they're often private buildings, and they're allowed to operate them in a way that, you know, complies with the legis lation. And beyond that, it's not some - thing that's, you know, posted on a public website. But, I mean, we're talking about averages. And I know the member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe), you know, tried to get some words on the record, but he wasn't recognized by the Chair, so I'll put them on the record fo r him.

He said, when I said that 9.8 per cent was how much it was increased by last year and that–but the average over the 13-year period that's before me or that I have records for was higher than that. He said, we should do something about that. That's why I replied with the phrase, are you suggest- ing that we increase them more? [interjection] He thought that was funny and he still seems to think that's funny. I'll tell you –I'll–I will tell you that when the member for Fort Garry (Mr.

Wasyliw) was on t he Residential Tenancies Com mission, I think it was, making decisions about above-guideline rent increases, the year before we came in gov ernment, when the

2282 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 11, 2023 member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe) was part of a very different looking NDP caucus than they had–than they have in the House today. I know the member never did get to sit in Cabinet–[interjection] Mr. Chairperson: Order. Mr. Teitsma: The member never did get in–[interjection] Mr. Chairperson: Order. Mr. Teitsma: –Cabinet. I doubt he ever will, bas ed on his current conduct, if not his past. But, nonetheless, when he was in the government side of the House, back in 2015 I think his seat might have been on the opposition side, then the member for Fort Garry (Mr.

Wasyliw) was on the Resi dential Tenancies Com mission, and the member for Fort Garry was processing above-guideline rent increases. So, in 2015–[interjection] Mr. Chairperson: Order. * (15:40) Mr. Teitsma: –the above -guideline rent increases approved by the member for Fort Garry and whoever else was helping him on the Resi dential Tenancies Commission was a whopping 12 per cent. In the year 2015, the average above -guideline rent increase, under the previous NDP government, was 12 per cent.

That is 2.2 per cent higher than it was last year under our government, even in the context of construction inflation and all sorts of other inflationary pressures that would suggest that those kinds of renovations may, in fact, be eligible for higher than the average guidelines. In fact , the end result was a lower than the historical average guideline–above-guideline rent in- crease and an improvement. I know this frustrates the member for Concordia. [interjection] I know that he can't –he's hoping one day that he gets to sit around a Cabinet table.

He's frustrated he didn't have the opportunity to do that when he was on the government side of the –of caucus for years and years. I don't have any ex pectation that he'll ever get to sit there. But I can tell you that what it takes to sit there is a level of discipline that he seems incapable of exercising. Mr. Chairperson: Before I continue on, I'd like to remind the members that the person has the floor, if– and I'd like to stay on topic to what we're discussing today, here. We are doing quite well, and we're hoping to finish these Estimates off today, but please, let's have some respect for each other.

Whoever has the floor, has the floor. Mr. Sandhu: We know these above- guideline rent increases, which is like 9.8 per cent, is kind of high. So the member from Concordia was saying, like, we have to do some thing; we –our member, today, member from St. James brought a very good bill this morning. And the minister just spoke about the car, buying cars, instead of talking about rent increases, how we can help those Manitobans. And so, from there, the minister wants that same thing here, and so–the minister could have, this morning, supported our bill, and–where this had probably helped lots of Manitobans.

So maybe we can just move to the next question from here. So, what was the average amount of time it took the Residential Tenancies Branch to resolve a dispute between tenant and landlord? Mr. Teitsma: I thank the member for that question. You know, there's different types of disputes, I guess, and there's a fair bit of variability between the kinds of disputes that can happen between a tenant and a landlord. And so in total, there's about 3,700 of those claims being made on an annual basis.

The wait times for a hearing woul d vary from a few weeks to a few months, and then once the hearing has occurred, then those decisions are typically made in a few days to maybe a maximum of two weeks. Mr. Sandhu: Thank you for that answer, Minister, and can you please break down those disputes and the wait times? Mr. Teitsma: Sure. The highest priority disputes are emergency orders of possession, so an emergency order of possession –there's also a bill before the House that's related to that, but I'll stay focused here on Estimates.

So, emergency orders of possession are only in a matter of a few days that they're heard and dealt with. Other orders of possession are generally given priority, so those are about three weeks typically, and that's for non-payment of rent or for any other issue, really, that would result in a, you know, request for an eviction that's not of an emergent nature. So, those are usually about three weeks. For other, you know, disputes between the tenant and a landlord where the tenant relationship is still allowed to continue and there's no eviction, those ones tend to be more in the–on the order of a few months.

May 11, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2283 Mr. Sandhu: Thank you for that, Minister. And also, yesterday we were talking about P3s. I just want –I have one question going back which I referred, that I'll ask later on. So we were just wondering, other than schools, is there any other P3 model that government is consid - ering using in other departments? Mr. Teitsma: I thank the member. I hope that he can respect the fact that I'm not in charge of building absolutely every thing that our gov ernment builds. You know, I don't build the hospitals; that's for the Health department.

I don't build the highways; that's for Transportation and Infrastructure. You know, I do build schools and a few other things; I –a lot of maintenance, even on this beautiful building here that is done. So, what I would say, I guess, in response to that question, is at this time, there are no other areas that, in my purview, that I'm aware of that would be considered for P3. Mr. Sandhu: I would like to move on to right to repair now. So, does the minister think it is im portant that Manitobans have the ability to repair the products they buy, including electronics, farm equipment and more? * (15:50) Mr.

Teitsma: Yes, I appreciate the member and the member's question. And he knows that I'm almost happy to talk about any topic at almost any time and even if he wants to catch me in the hallway, we can chat about everything from, you know, a great restaurant to eat at to what political policies on an international scale might need to be or should be. But, in this case, you know, I –my de partment does not have that within its purview. We're here to talk about the Estimates of Expenditure for the fiscal year ending 2024, March 31st. I don't think there's any reference to right to repair there. Mr.

Sandhu: We're talking about consumer protec - tion now, so that was the question. And maybe I can –if he doesn't know this one, maybe I can ask: Can the minister tell us wh at action he's taking to ensure Manitobans are able to repair the products they buy? Mr. Teitsma: Yes, I thank the member. I think my feedback on the first question was somehow not taken to heart by the member. What I would say is that the legislation that's before the House that's put forward by one of his members isn't what we're talking about here.

The policy decisions of a government outside of the realm of what's, you know, been decided as part of the Estimates isn't really in scope here. I'll just observe, on the right to repair, I think–and again, this is just what I'm aware of and I'm sure the member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway) would be happy to tell you more about it. He seems to love this sort of thing. You know, there's been some movement in the European Union towards improving right -to- repair legislation there too. I'd just ask that member: Are there any provincial level–I mean, that's a multinational organi zation, the European Union.

Would there be any provincial level or something that's below the size of a nation that he's aware of that has, you know, specific laws around right to repair that might help me understand what he's asking about? Mr. Sandhu: Is the minister thinking of intro ducing any legis lation that will protect the con sumer regarding when they buy a new product, buying their new vehicle, where they can get repair done wherever they want it? Mr. Teitsma: I'll once again remind the member that we're not talking here about potential legis lative agendas or anything like that.

We're talking about the way that our consumer de partment of works right now–Consumer Protection Office works right now. What I will say is that the Consumer Pro tection Office answers roughly 15,000 inquiries annually, and that includes emails, phone calls. They also issue over 5,000 licences to direct sellers, hearing aid dealers, collectors, collection agents , et cetera. And they've also investigated hundreds–I think last year was 427– consumer complaints. I'll also let the member know that Manitoba is one of the few provinces where the seller is liable for all warranties that they sell.

That means if some thing does need to be shipped away to be repaired, then the seller is responsible for those costs. And that's the way that Manitoban consumers are protected, perhaps better than in some other pro- vinces. And there's also some even more specific requirements related to motor vehicle repairs that offer protection for consumers. So, Manitoba does well and the de partment cer- tainly is handling a high volume of inquiries and consumer complaints and serving our province well.

2284 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 11, 2023 Mr. Sandhu: I just move –I want to move on to the Public Utilities Board. How many times did the PUB meet in 2022-23? Mr. Teitsma: I thank the member for the ques tions about the Public Utilities Board. I don't have the specific answer to the question he's asking about how many times they've met. They're in dependent, and I make it my goal to keep them that way. I'll note that our gov ernment, in this budget, has increased the amount of funding to the Public Utilities Board by $2 million to ensure that they are able to be a world-class regulator.

That's what we want them to be and that's what they're doing right now. Now, I will say for the member's benefit because he's perhaps thinking that they're not meeting: I can assure him that they are. They, for example, have had to meet and have hearings about the Manitoba Hydro electric general rate application; also about the Manitoba Public Insurance directive and g eneral rate application. They have to review Efficiency Manitoba's efficiency plan. They will be expected to review and they can review, regularly, Centra Gas's general rate application.

And they also have a tremendous amount of respon- sibility around municipal water and waste utilities. They actually have to deal with 240 individual munici pal water and waste water utilities across the province and deal with them from a rate-setting perspective. * (16:00) So, lots of work going on at the Public U tilities Board. Certainly, in addition to provi ding them with an extra $2 million in the 2023 budget, I have met once with the chair and assured him of my commitment to his continued independence and my support for his efforts to ensure that Manitoba has a world-class public utilities regulator.

And that $2 -million commitment certainly went a long way to assuring him of my commitment. Mr. Sandhu: How does the passage of Bill 35 impact the PUB? Mr. Teitsma: I thank the member for the question. I think the member would know that Bill 35 is not a Consumer Protection and Gov ernment Services bill; it's a Finance bill. Because Finance is responsible for Hydro. I understand–I can ap preciate–and I know the member for St. James (Mr. Sala) is giving me the eye here to say, yes, but it does impact the PUB, and it does, in fact, impact the PUB.

But in terms of the exact nature of that impact, I try to keep myself at arm's - length from the Public Utilities Board, and I expect that they'll do that. I'll just read, actually, a few excerpts, if the mem- bers will permit me, from –I think this might be the last–the most recent news release. I haven't checked. But one of the more recent news releases coming out of the Public Utilities Board. And what–this is what they have to say. They say the board–the Public Utilities Board, spe cifically–is an impartial tribunal and regulator at arm's -length from government.

And I'm going to em phasize and read that again–at arm's-length from government–that acts in the public interest. That's certainly their mandate. That's really what I wanted to support them in doing but the exact and particular nature of the work that they do, and the legislation that might govern them, I haven't put myself into the weeds on that . I have ultimate con fi- dence in the head of the Public Utilities Board to be able to do his work in accordance with the legislation that applies.

But I'll also say from this news release, since I suspect it would not be the kind of a news release that might be mentioned by the members opposite in the House, is that the result of this particular decision that they made on Centra Gas is that it will decrease a typical residential customer bill, the annual bill, by 9.5 per cent; a 9.5 per cent decrease in natural gas rates, at a time when almost everything else and every other grocery item and the cost of gasoline and the carbon tax supported by your NDP -Liberal coalition in Ottawa; all those things are going up.

But here in Manitoba, we have the cost of natural gas decreasing, as approved by the inde pendent, arm's-length tribunal and regulator, the Public Utilities Board, decreasing at a rate of 9.5 per cent. Mr. Sandhu: I do like to ask a question on MAHCP, that they are–they got strong mandate from the mem- bers to go on a strike. Is there a bargaining mandate regarding contract negotiation with the MAHCP from the minister? Mr. Teitsma: I thank the member for that question. I think he's in the wrong

section of Estimates. This is Consumer Protection and Gov ernment Services, not anything to do with the Health de partment, not anything to do with the work of the public sector compensation committee. But he might be close, if we

May 11, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2285 get to my next department, I'd probably could provide him an answer but a different set of deputies and staff will be beside me at that time. I do just want to revert back to the impact that Bill 35 would have on the Public Utilities Board. And I think one impact that I am aware of, that I think is very sig nificant, is that major projects –capital pro - jects, things like Bipole III, things like the Keeyask hydroelectric dam generating station –these projects previously were not subject to the Public Utilities Board review.

What Bill 35 does is it ensures that the Publ ic Utilities Board, this in dependent tribunal, this arm's - length body that is independent from government and isn't subject to their say-so, would have something to say, would be given material and the oppor tunity to investigate that material and to comment on the deci- sion making by gov ernment and the proposals being made by Manitoba Hydro to spend ratepayer and sometimes taxpayers' dollars on major capital projects like Bipole III, like Keeyask.

I hope the member recognizes that those kinds of investments significantly–or sig nificant–like, impact the future of our province. Right now, roughly $1 billion a year is falling out of our province's economy, being paid by Manitoba Hydro in interest costs because of the significant debt incurred as part of Bipole III and as part of Keeyask. Mr. Shannon Martin, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair Those investments were made, you know, with - out any scrutiny, without any inde pendent oversight, without any input from the Public Utilities Boa rd.

That's not the way those decisions should be made, and I hope the members will agree with me that that change that came in as part of Bill 35 is going to make things better in our province, going to prevent the kind of mistakes that the NDP –the previous NDP govern- ment made. Mr. Sandhu: I think the minister doesn't have anything good to say about the last seven years. He had to go back, way, way, way back and I don't know where minister's going, actually. * (16:10) I'm going to go to my next question.

On the page– Estimates book, page 24 and 25, the gov ernment is thinking of reducing owned and leased buildings' footprints. Is the gov ernment considering selling off any public housing in order to, or– Mr. Chairperson in the Chair Mr. Chairperson: The honourable minister. Mr. Teitsma: I thank the member and I thank him for his patience. I think he –first we should make sure we've got–we're on the same page in, terms of what kind of buildings we're talking about here.

So, I think the member, in his question, talked about housing or Manitoba Housing, that's not on this department's table, that's not anything I'm going to be able to speak to. The Minister of Families (Ms. Squires) is the one who's in charge of that portfolio, although we do assist with some of the major renovations and construction projects there. But in terms of the overall portfolio and its manage- ment, that's really within the Department of Families. And so, from a housing perspective, not part of this – of my respon sibility and–as–in this de partment and not part of my response.

The point that I think the member is talking about, say 3(

b) on page 25 of the Supplement to the Estimates of Expenditure talks about a reduction of owned and leased portfolio. So, my department's in charge of every office building that we own: the Legislature, you know, provincial office buildings in a variety of towns, the Legislative Building specifically, yes. And all these buildings are in our purview as a department, and many of thos e buildings are owned, but there's also places where we lease.

And I think the member probably can know, you know, going up and down Broadway, and in the vicinity here, you can see Manitoba government offices that are housed in build- ings that aren't nec essarily owned by the Manitoba government. And so, what we are –what we're looking at here is primarily an op portunity to focus on the better utilization of the assets that we own.

Sometimes that'll require a refresh or an investment in a particular asset, but overall the goal there, by investing in some of the buildings that we own, is that we can reduce the number of buildings that we lease and do a better job of using the assets that we own. * (16:20) And that's really what we're after with that measurement. You know, the overall footprint that government uses, we want to make sure that we're–we have enough room, but not–that we're not paying, with taxpayer money, for room that we don't need.

2286 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 11, 2023 And that's, in fact, when we took–got into govern- ment and–you know, back in 2016, that's what we were finding, is that sometimes, you know, leases were signed for convenience without a lot of creativity.

And so you had government-owned buildings that were adequate or might have required, you know, relatively small invest ment to be made adequate, sitting empty while, you know, gov ernment money and taxpayer dollars, really, were being given to a private landlord just because, you know, the executive director of a parti cular division thought that the y needed, you know, a bigger window. And so, we don't want that.

And we want to make sure that we're using our buildings prudently, that we're meeting standards for how much space an employee can have to work in and all those other, you know, aspects that go in the management of an overall portfolio. But our goal is to use the assets that we have as well as possible. Mr. Adrien Sala (St. James): I'd like to thank my colleague for giving me an opportunity to ask some–a couple questions here. I am g oing to ask some questions related to the rural broadband expansion project. Spe cifically, I'm hoping that the minister can provide an update on the status of work with Xplornet.

We know this contract falls under his department. And we know that recently, a couple weeks ago, we learned that Manitoba Hydro let their employees know that work had stopped on that rural broadband expansion project. This seemed to be a due to a disagreement between Xplornet and Manitoba Hydro. And I'm hoping that the minis ter can provide some clarity on the status of that disagreement and when he suspects work will recommence. Mr. Teitsma: I thank the member for the question.

And I think maybe first start with setting the table here to ensure that he knows that I share his desire to get every com munity–in fact, every household in Manitoba–connected to high-speed broadband Internet. That's my objective as a minister; that's what I want. And I think I want it for the very same reasons that the member wants it: because it's going to provide educational opportunities, especially for northern remote communities; it's going to provide em ployment op - portunities; it's going to provide economic growth opportunities for our province.

Certainly, very positive out comes are already being seen and more are being anticipated as we continue to connect communities. I do have an update for the member about the number of com munities that are connected. I think, you know, when I had a brief opportunity in the House to read into the record some of the names of those communities–I promise I won't do that today –but back then, there was –I think it was 409, but it might have been 418 com munities that we had on the list. The latest list of commu nities that have been connected has actually increased.

Now it's up to 433 communities that have been connected. There's still a couple hundred more to do, and so we want to continue that. And I know First Nations, in parti cular, are our concern. That's an area where we absol utely want to see those opportunities for education, for employment and for economic growth that's going to provide tre - mendous oppor tunities for First Nations and better outcomes for them. So we have 13 First Nations com- munities that been al ready connected. There are 10 that are yet to be connected. So that's really the overall scope of where we're at. There's a contract in place.

There's two parties at the table, Hydro and Xplore. Certainly, I've i

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-5-53b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 5th hansardpdf 53b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	e859707b778b712bec1ae8941a6915e2b5259a1b

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