Manitoba Hansard — 3 October 2022 (Sitting 67, 42nd Legislature, 4th Session)

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Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXVI No. 67 - 1:30 p.m., Monday, October 3, 2022 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon.

Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon. Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg, Hon. Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott, Hon. Assiniboia PC KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan, Hon. Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib.

LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg, Hon. Riding Mountain PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle, Hon. Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP REYES, Jon, Hon. Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew, Hon.

Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC Vacant Kirkfield Park

2823 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, October 3, 2022 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperi ty of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.

We acknowl edge we are gathered on Treaty 1 territory and that Manitoba is located on the treaty territories and ancestral lands of the Anishinaabeg, Anishininewuk, Dakota Oyate, Denesuline and Nehethowuk nations. We a cknowledge Manitoba is located on the Homeland of the Red River Métis. We acknowledge northern Manitoba includes lands that were and are the ancestral lands of the Inuit. We respect the spirit and intent of treaties and treaty making and remain committed to working in partner- ship with First Nations, Inuit and Métis people in the spirit of truth, reconciliation and collaboration.

Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Madam Speaker: Introduction of bills? Com mittee reports? Tabling of reports? MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honour able Minister of Families–and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with rule 26(2). Would the honour able minister please proceed with her statement. Women's History Month Hon.

Rochelle Squires (Minister responsible for the Status of Women): Madam Speaker, I'm proud today to stand up and announce that October, of course, is Women's History Month in Canada. It is an annual tradition for us to celebrate the achievements of women throughout our history and recognize the trailblazers who have shaped our country and our way of life. Here in Manitoba, we recognize the essential role that women in communities across our province have played in shaping our province's past and future. Manitoba has a proud history of strong, ambitious women, standing up and fighting for change.

Right here in this Legislative Assembly, we have seen some historic moments for women with the first Clerk of the executive assembly to be here in our presence today. We have the first elected Indigenous woman in the province's history with the MLA for The Pas - Kameesak here. As well, of course, we have the first woman Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) in our midst as well right here. So, congratu lations to all these women for the groundbreaking roles that they play and for the gen- erations of women behind them that they are inspiring.

I encourage all Manitobans to take a moment this month to think about, learn and celebrate amazing women who have helped shape this province. In 2020, our government announced a way to celebrate these women with the empower awards. Last year, we had a ceremony at the Fort Gibraltar and recognized two winners, Divya Sharma and Lorie English, for the hard work that they did during the pandemic, especially to support women in our community. We're pleased to announce earlier this year that we would be opening up these awards once again. This year, the theme is wom en working towards reconciliation and healing.

Two deserving Manitoba women, one adult and one youth, will be honoured at the 2022 Empower Women Awards on October 20th of 2022. Many women and youth were nominated this year, from a variety of sectors and areas of Manitoba. The award winners will be selected based on the overall strength of their nomination as well as com - munity involvement and intersectionality of their efforts, along with addressing systemic issues, lasting change and scale of response.

I look forward to learning about each of this year's nominees, which include artists and dancers, com - munity organizers and activists, former and aspiring politicians, and aviation and STEM educators.

2824 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 3, 2022 I want to thank all of those who are nominated, as well as those who did the nominating, for recognizing the importance work of those in our com munity, and I certainly look forward to seeing members of the Legislative Assembly attend that ceremony to recog - nize, establish and honour these women. So, happy Women's History Month. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Further min isterial statements? [interjection] Oh, pardon me, the honour able–sorry–the honourable member for Notre Dame.

MLA Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): Madam Speaker, since 1992, October has been celebrated as Women's History Month, making this year its 30th anniversary. It is a time to celebrate the remark- able achievements of women throughout history, and to reflect on the changes we still need to make to achieve gender equality today. We must also use this time to remember that we still have much more to do. Every achievement a woman has made has been done in spite of the barriers that we continue to face.

The gender pay gap in Canada persists, and is even more p ronounced for racialized and Indigenous women as well as new - comers and women with disabilities. Women are still overrepresented in low -wage jobs and in low -paid care- sector jobs. Even though this is crucial work, these jobs are undervalued be - cause of their gendered associations. Many racialized and newcomer women work in severely underpaid care sectors, including home care, long-term care and as direct support professionals.

Despite the critical importance of this work, particularly as we face a health-care staffing crisis, many are forced to work with no benefits or full-time status. Supporting these women workers needs to be central to our Health human resource strategy for our province as we continue to navigate this pandemic and as we prepare for Ma nitoba's aging population. This work is critical to care. This Women's History Month, let's uplift the achievements of all women, and continue to fight for justice and equity for women workers. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall P ark): I ask for leave to respond to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] Ms. Lamoureux: Here in Canada, we recognize Women's History Month in October, and I always appreciate using this opportunity to talk a bit about milestones we have accomplished as women and con- cerns that are very real and applicable to us to this day. This year, however, I would like to use this as an opportunity to highlight a few women in this House. Madam Speaker, I want to start with the Minister of Municipal Relations (Ms.

Clarke). In the spring, the minister went out of her way and dedicated time to sit down with myself and a member from the NDP to talk about ways us, as MLAs, could better work together. This initiative she took really inspired me and demon- strated the importance of working together. The second member I would like to recognize is the member for The Pas -Kameesak (Ms. Lathlin). Madam Speaker, this member has always been kind in her approach and I believe that, because of this, when she talks, people listen. This member motivates me to remain focused.

Lastly, Madam Speaker, I want to recognize our Clerk, Patricia Chaychuk. Patricia does an incredible job at maintaining records of parliamentary pro ceed- ings and ensuring orders of the day are followed. There is a lot more to the job, but what I really admire about her is her professionalism.

No matter the topic or proceeding, I believe her professionalism speaks to the respect she has for our institution. * (13:40) Madam Speaker, my hope is that by highlighting women on both sides of the House, as sitting MLAs and our Clerk, who we all know really runs this House, we remind ourselves of the impact that women in all parties, partisan or non- partisan, have in our workplace and I think we need more of it. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Further ministerial statements?

The honourable Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage–and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with our rule 26(2). Would the honour able minister please proceed with his statement.

October 3, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2825 Islamic History Month Hon. Andrew Smith (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): I rise today to recognize and celebrate Islamic History Month, which our province observes annually in the month of October. Manitoba became the first Canadian province to proclaim an Islamic History Month, and through many contributions to our cultural, social, scientif ic and economic spheres, Muslim communities have played an important role in our continually evolving provincial and national identities. For over 150 years, Muslims have called Canada home.

The first census, conducted in 1871, reported 13 Muslims among the population of Canada. By the time the nation's first mosque was built in 1938, there were close to 700 Muslims in our country. It is truly a Canadian act, as the mosque was founded and built by a 'colotion' of people from different faiths. Following ch anges to the national immigration policies in the 1960s, Canada's Muslim community grew, and today it is one of the country's most di - verse groups, representing many distinct cultures, ethnicities, languages, practices and traditions.

Locally, this diversity was demonstrated recently at Winnipeg's Eid celebration in May. This event attracted over 10,000 members of the Muslim community to gather, pray and give charity in congregation with each other Whether you are in a small town or a big city, the impact of Manitoba's Muslim community is evident through their contributions to volunteerism in the arts, creative industries, sports, business, medicine, educa- tion, the trades, politics and, of course, public service. This 'dedigation' to com munity building exemplifies one of the core values that unites so many of us Manitobans.

However, we cannot, Madam Speaker, overlook the fact that many Muslims, locally and abroad, have endured many struggles. And despite instances of hurtful acts, Manitobans have chosen to move forward in unity to continue to enhance life in our province based on our commitment to 'faciltilate' –facilitate respect, understanding and celebration of diversity. When people of all backgrounds are welcomed, our collective perspective expands, creating a province that is richer and more fulfilling for all Manitobans.

Madam Speaker, I'd encourage all Manitobans to take advantage of the activities and events taking place throughout the month to better understand the contributions of Muslims to our province, and I ask those present to join me in celebrating the start of Islamic History Month 2022. Thank you. Mr. Diljeet Brar (Burrows): It is my honour to rise today to speak to Islamic heritage month. Under our previous government, Manitoba beca me the first province in Canada to proclaim such a month to recognize and celebrate the history and heritage of Manitoba Muslims. Diversity is our strength.

We are fortunate to share cultural traditions with our neighbours. This month we are celebrating and recognizing the importance of Islamic history and heritage. Manitobans and Canadians have an opportunity this month to learn more about the history of Islam in Canada and recognize many achievements of Muslim Canadians in the arts, sports, academics, sciences, literature and their communities. It is also a time to acknowledge the ongoing challenges and barriers that Muslim Canadians face. This month is an opportunity to recognize and address continuing racism and hate that we must fight against.

Together, we must combat all forms of dis - crimination, Islamophobia and hate -fuelled violence directed at Muslim communities. This month is a time to continue working towards a compassionate, in- clusive and safer Canada for everyone. As we celebrate Islamic heritage month this month, I encourage all Manitobans to take the time to participate in local cultural events and learn more about the resiliency and strength of Muslim Canadians in Manitoba and around the world. I want to wish a happy Islamic heritage month to all. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I ask leave to speak to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the statement? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: In Manitoba, Madam Speaker, we have an ever-growing Islamic community. It includes many born in Canada and many who immigrated from various countries around the world. We are fortunate here to have leaders in the Islamic commu nity, including Albert El Tassi and

2826 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 3, 2022 Shahina Siddiqui, who have worked very hard to build bridges with other communities in our province. Because of this work, on many occasions, political and faith leaders in Manitoba have stood strong against discrimination directed against those in the Islamic community. Some years ago, I attended a talk in Winnipeg by Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish, a Palestinian doctor, born and raised in the Jabalia refugee camp in Gaza. He worked as a doctor in both Israel and Gaza before coming to Canada.

As a humanitarian, he sees the need for im - proved health and education for women as the way forward. On January 16, 2009, his three daughters and his niece were killed in the fighting in Gaza. In spite of the loss of his daughters and, indeed, in response to it, he wrote a book tit led I Shall Not Hate, dedicated to finding a way for us all to live together in peace. The Islamic community has demonstrated that it has both strength and compassion.

In the last year, I've worked closely with many in the local Islamic community to help refugees who've escaped from Afghanistan or are trying to escape and to come to Manitoba, including many who want to join their relatives here. The stories I hear are compelling and heartbreaking, and it's heartwarming that Manitobans are listening and helping. Last Saturday evening, the Nigerian Association of Manitoba banquet featured both Christian and Islamic prayers before dinner, an acknowledgement of the two major faiths of people from Nigeria. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. Merci. Miigwech.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Daniel Alexander Stokes Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Municipal Relations): Life as we know it can change in a day or even a moment. Too often we neglect to say the things we wish later that we had or would spend a bit of time more with someone we–really needed that time or a gesture of kindness and friendship could've changed some - one's day or even their life. We need to live without regrets; it would make our world a better place for everyone. On July 24th, 2022, the life of David [phonetic]– Daniel Alexander Stokes, my special assistant, ended very quickly, at the young age of 24 years.

His family was devastated by his sudden death, as were we, his political family and friends. He was a healthy and a vibrant young man with so much energy and so many friends in his life. His future was full of opportunities, and he was an inspiration to all who knew him. His service of remembrance was attended by an overwhelming number of family, friends and col - leagues. Even his special pet, Murphy, attended with his family. I had so much respect for this young man who had such a pride and confidence and could share his personal feelings with all of us.

He fulfilled the requirements of his government position with skill and diplomacy. Days after his service, his parents, Angie and Rich, and his siblings, Adam and Lauren, came to our office to pick up his personal belongings, receive some special gifts from his colleagues and share a time of remembrance with our staff and work friends. What we expected to be a tearful and sombre event turned into many funny stories from everyone, including his family, about Daniel and his structured life. He had been a shining star in all our lives; we had so many amazing memories.

The meeting ended with a family photo of all of us, many hugs and our hearts feeling a sense of appreciation for his short life and his time with all of us. Many people live long and productive years while some are only given a short time to fulfill God's plan for them. At D aniel's service, the priest spoke of his strong and unwavering commitment to his faith. That was the young man as we knew him. Daniel is missed but he lives in our hearts and he walks the halls of this Legislature, keeping an eye on all of us.

So today I encourage all of you, speak the words, do the deeds, be respectful to all others and live your life with purpose and conviction. Tomorrow is not promised. I ask you all to show your support for Daniel's family, his mom and dad, Rich and Angie, his brother Adam and his uncle, Patrol Sergeant Ward Gordon, who are with us today. Thank you, Madam Speaker. * (13:50) International Walk to School Month Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, October is International Walk to School Month and

October 3, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2827 October 5th is Walk to School Day. During this month, children and their families are encouraged to walk to school instead of driving. And in Manitoba, activities are organized by the Green Action Centre as part of their Walktober campaign. I want to welcome staff fro m the Green Action Centre that are here today. Walktober focuses on creating healthy routines of active transportation within the community and is an opportunity for students to explore their neighbour - hood and build confidence by safely walking or biking to school.

They provide workshops and activity kits for classrooms, including activities that can be adapted to rural areas. For many years, Green Action Centre has promoted the model of a walking school bus in neighbourhoods where that is feasible. There are many benefits to walking. Time spent outdoors in the fresh air means a more energized start to the day for students. This helps improve students' concentration and the added physical activity contributes to better health. Active school travel reduces car trips, which reduces our carbon footprint.

It also reduces traffic congestion around schools that is directly linked to poor air quality from the con- centration of greenhouse gas emissions around the entrance to schools. Studies show that diesel sc hool buses contribute to the development of asthma in children and can harm brain and lung development. Walk to school month is an excellent time to bring attention to the harms of fossil-fuelled forms of travel, explore solu - tions such as transitioning to electric school buses and reduce barriers to using active travel in urban areas.

Manitoba students are not alone: International Walk to School Day takes place in 40 countries around the world. And while walking to school may have been the norm for many of us in the past, today families must be more intentional about joyful movement, taking the time to breathe in the outdoors and to appreciate and protect the environment we are trying to preserve for our children. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Makenna Stratton Hon. Andrew Smith (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): Madam Speaker, I rise today to tell a story of a courageous youth and her family who live in my constituency.

Makenna Stratton has always been a loving, caring and energetic child with man y, many friends. September of 2021, she was so happy to be starting grade 7 at Christ The King School with her peers. On October 20th, her mother Monique brought her to the Children's Hospital and were then told something no parent ever wants to hear: that Makenna had cancer, acute myeloid leukemia, or AML. This form of leukemia is high risk, aggressive blood and bone marrow cancer that requires extremely aggressive treatment. She was admitted that day and set up on a clinical trial, with chemotherapy to begin on October 22nd.

Before therapy was to start, she gracefully opted to have her long hair shaved off and donated to make wigs for others undergoing chemotherapy. It was at this point that the reality of the journey with childhood cancer began for Makenna and her family. Her rigorous treatment plan was five cycles of adult-strength chemotherapy, just over 100 doses, and countless blood and platelet transfusions, all of which took six and a half months to complete. She spent 203 days on CK5, the p ediatric cancer ward at HSC Children's Hospital, and 13 days at PICU, fighting for her life against a 'neuropenic' infection.

While Makenna was enduring the battle, she had overwhelming support from her family and extended network of friends and voluntee rs from many organizations. One such group in particular, the Candlelighters Childhood Cancer Support Group of Manitoba and their director, Naomi Fehr, raised $27,000 in 24 hours after reading a post from Monique about her daughter's situation in January of this year. The money was raised in order to feed all the families on the pediatric cancer ward through to the end of February.

After so many difficult months of fighting cancer, I am happy to say that on May 10th, Mighty Makenna, as she's become known for her courage and bravery, was discharged from CK5, and she rang her remission bell that very day. Please join me in recognizing Makenna and her family: Monique, Geoff and Tyler Stratton, who are here with us today. All Abilities Soccer Program Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): Madam Speaker, today I recognize the Bonivital Soccer Club for launching a new initiative called the All Abilities Soccer Program, starting with a pilot project this October 29th and 30th.

2828 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 3, 2022 Every child deserves a chance to build lasting friendships, make memories and feel like they be - long. The All Abilities Soccer Program, created by dedicated coach Jason Moist, who is in the gallery with us today, along with club executive director Steven Gzebb, will look to provide children and youth, ages nine to 16, with intellectual or physical disabilities, an opportunity to learn and play soccer. The fully inclusive program is designed and adapted for children and youth with any ability.

The All Abilities Soccer Program strives for an inclusive environment where all children and youth are given their opportunity to shine. Whether a child uses a wheelchair, walker, lives with an intellectual, communication or developmental disability, the club's goal is to provide support to all and welcome all to the field. The emphasis of this program is on development and meaningful participation, rather than competition.

The All Abilities Soccer Program will benefit children by helping them develop a sense of belonging to community and club, learn the value of being part of a team, improve self -esteem, as well as improve fitness and social skills. Families will receive a fun and meaningful ex - perience for all. Games and activities will be adapted to ensure every child's participation. The program is run in a safe and healthy environment, and participants' parents will have the opportunity to network with other families for support and infor ma- tion sharing.

For details on All Abilities Soccer Program, please visit bonivitalsoccer.com. I invite all members to join me in celebrating the work of the Bonivital Soccer Club, coach Jason Moist, executive director Steven Gzebb, and all staff and volunteers at the club. Thank you. Norma Wood & Joe Wiwchar Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, today I recognize Norma Wood, the head leader of the Morden Achievers 4 -H Club. Norma has been a part of Morden Achievers 4-H since it started 40 years ago. Norma embodies the key values of 4-H: head, heart, hands and health.

Former 4 -H leader C athy Sandercock said you cannot think about 4- H without one person's name coming to mind, and that's Norma. As a leader, her kitchen table was a safe place for children of every faith, background and education level. She shared sewing skills and a zest for knowledge with four generations of youth in the com munity. She led the club; she co -ordinated com munication competitions, achievement nights, ditch cleaning, fundraisers, and even decorated the 4 -H parade float every year in Corn and Apple with v olunteers. She's been recognized as the longest serving 4- H leader in the province.

Thank you, Norma, for sharing your knowledge and investing in children all these 40 years. Madam Speaker, I rise today to recognize Morden resident Joe Wiwchar. Joe has managed the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame and museum since it–the day it opened in 1999, at Access Event Centre in Morden, collecting artifacts, celebrating outstanding athletes, coaches and officials and, of course, running the annual induction ceremony. He's considered a cornerstone of the Manitoba baseball com munity.

He's been an amazing repre- sentative of baseball, working with countless youth and as a baseball coach continuously since 1953. Joe has worked with prov incial, western, and national teams. He's been a player, a coach, an umpire, a mentor and an administrator. One of the quotes Joe loves to live by is: I feel that the greatest reward for doing is the opportunity to do more. Madam Speaker, we want to wish Joe all the best as he slides into retirement and thank him for the countless hours that he has given to baseball in Manitoba.

Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: I would now like to draw the attention of all hon ourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today Ti na Beaudry- Mellor, who is the former Saskatchewan Party minister of advanced edu cation and the status of women and innovation, who is the guest of the honourable Minister of Families (Ms. Squires). * (14:00) On behalf of all honour able members here, we welcome you here to the Legislature today.

October 3, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2829 ORAL QUESTIONS St. Boniface Hospital Foundation Donations for ER Remodel Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, for years Brian Pallister and the Premier cut our health -care system. They forced those on the front lines and patients to undergo tremendous adversity and difficult situations. And instead of investing in health care, the Premier forced our hospitals to ask for private money to fund essential health-care services. I'll table a letter from the St. Boniface Hospital Foundation which hit doorsteps in Winnipeg recently.

It asks for donations to help fund the construction of the emergency room at St. Boniface Hospital, asking Manitobans to chip in private dollars to pay for the emergency room at St. B, which the gov ernment should rightly be footing the bill for. Why is the Premier forcing our hospitals to ask for donations for essential health-care services? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): Thank the Leader of the Opposition for the question. In fact, we've been out listening to Manitobans, Madam Speaker. We've been taking action when it comes to health care on their behalf and we've been getting things done.

The Leader of the Op position mentions the St. Boniface ER expansion, and I'm proud to announce, as I did months ago, along with the Minister of Health (Ms. Gordon), at St. Boniface, Madam Speaker, $141- million invest ment into the emergency room at St. Boniface Hospital. Madam Speaker, we will continue to take action on behalf of Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, instead of funding new surgery spaces at the Concordia Hospital, the Premier said that the Co ncordia hospital foundation would have to ask for donations.

That's wrong. We should be investing in public health care. We should be investing in essential services like operating rooms in which to deliver surgeries. Now today, again, we learn that foundations are fundraising for another essential project. This time it's the emergency room at the St. Boniface Hospital. This project shouldn't depend on private dona - tions from Manitobans. This is the H ealth budget. This is the clearest definition that we could be talking about: building an emergency room. We should be investing in our hospitals instead of cutting them.

Will the Premier stop forcing hospitals to ask for donations for projects they should be paying for, such as the St. B ER? Mrs. Stefanson: Well, once again, the Leader of the Opposition is misleading and doesn't –won't stick to the facts, Madam Speaker. So, the facts are that we are investing more than $1 billion more than the NDP ever did in our health-care system in the province of Ma nitoba because we are listening to Manitobans, we're taking action and we're getting things done; $141 million more for the emergency room for St. Boniface Hospital. It is nothing new in the province of Manitoba.

It's been taking place for decades, where philanthropy is live and well in Manitoba, where Manitobans want to contribute to our health-care system, Madam Speaker, and we will continue to rely on them and work closely with them to ensure that Manitobans get the health care they need when they need it. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: I just wanted to acknowl edge that the Premier confirmed that she's going to rely on private donations to fund essential health-care services.

It's much like on the first day of this session when she said she was going to increase the amount of contracting out. First with Concordia Hospital, and now with St. Boniface Hospital, we see this gov ern- ment–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –relying on private money to pay for essential services that should be paid for by the gov- ernment. It's a fundamental Canadian value that you should have universal access to health care through a public system. And yet we're just not getting that s ort of investment from this government. The Premier needs to reverse course. Will she stop forcing St.

Boniface Hospital Foundation to ask for donations for their emergency room and instead pay for it out of the public resources?

2830 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 3, 2022 Mrs. Stefanson: Surely, the Leader of the Opposition is not saying that we should cancel the foundations throughout our province, Madam Speaker. These community contributions have been the backbone of our province for decades. I'll rely–I'll remind the member opposite, during the dark days of the previous NDP government, com- munity contributions took place even back then. But I'll remind him again–$141 million to the emergency room at St. Boniface Hospital.

We will continue to make investments to these in- stitutions in the province of Manitoba, Madam Speaker. Question is, what's his plan, or does he have one? Madam Speaker: The honour able–[interjection] Order. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Winnipeg Health Region Number of Surgeries Performed Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, our plan on this side of the House is simple: uni versal public access to health care for Manitobans.

We know that one area where this gov ernment has fa iled Manitobans is when it comes to getting timely access to surgeries. Too many Manitobans are waiting, and new data from the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority proves just how dire this situation actually is. The Stefanson government performed 440 fewer surgeries in the entire Winnipeg health region last year than the year prior. I'll table the proof of this. It's clear that there is a failure when it comes to the prov- ision of surgeries. It's why so many Manitobans are speaking out against this government on health care.

Will the Premier tell this House why her govern- ment performed fewer surgeries last year than when Brian Pallister was the premier? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): Well, Madam Speaker, first of all, I want to thank those who are taking time out of their busy schedules to work and help us out on the diagnos tic and surgical task force. They are working day in and day out to ensure that Manitobans can get the surgical and diagnos tic procedures they need when they need them.

We have invested more than $110 million in the surgical and diagnostic areas within our province and we will continue to make those invest ments. We are partnering out there in the com munity to ensure that we expand the number of surgical procedures that can take place to ensure that more Manitobans get access to those surgical procedures, not less. If the NDP were in charge, they wouldn't allow that at all. That's thousands of surgical procedures that they wouldn't allow at all. They would say no to that.

I can tell you, we will stand for Manitobans and get them the health care they need when they need it, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, the probl em is that Manitobans are not getting the health care they need with this government. Again, I'll table another set of documents here, further proof of this gov ernment's failure to deliver surgeries.

If we zoom in at the Health Sciences Centre, we see that there were many more surgeries last year than the year prior, and there were thousands fewer surgeries that year than in 2019. The record of this gov ernment is clear. Their actions have only made the surgical backlog worse – 500 fewer surgeries in our province at the HSC. That's because–that means seniors are waiting for hip, knee and other important procedures. That's wrong. Will the Premier explain to the House why the PC government is falling further behind when it comes to surgeries? Mrs.

Stefanson: Madam Speaker, the document that the Leader of the Op position just tabled before this House obviously indicated some years that we were going through a worldwide pandemic –a worldwide pandemic. That's when things were shut down. It was a very, very challenging time. And there weren't as many surgical and diagnostic procedures taking place at that time. Now, I mean, the Leader of the Opposi tion doesn't like the truth. He doesn't like the facts.

But the facts are that we are investing more than $110 million more to ensure that Manitobans get the surgical and diagnostic procedures that they need when they need them, Madam Speaker. And we are–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: –looking to expand that capacity beyond just our hospitals here. We're making to–we're

October 3, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2831 making sure that Manitobans get those procedures when they need it. Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition has already said he wouldn't do that. We will make sure that Manitobans get the surgical and diagnos tic procedures they need when they need it. * (14:10) Madam Speaker: The honour able Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, when we dive into the Premier's time as Health Minister, we see that Manitoba's health-care system collapsed. It was an un- precedented situation anywhere in North America.

Now, when we look at the proof, the government that– the documents that this gov ernment publishes with respect to surgeries, we see that there are a hu ndred fewer surgeries being performed in the province. I'll table the document for the Premier's perusal. We see that the Stefanson government's record is clear. They are doing even a worse job than the Pallister gov ernment at provi ding surgeries t o Manitoba. No one in Manitoba thought that Brian Pallister did a good job of managing the health- care system, and yet, apparently, things are even worse now.

Will the Premier finally abandon the cuts to health care which have caused so many Manitobans hardship these past many years? Mrs. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition continues to put false infor mation on the record within this House. The facts of the matter are that we are investing more than $1 billion more than they ever did in–during their time when they were in office. But I will say, Madam Speaker, we will not let our ideology get in the way of making sure that Manitobans get the surgeries and diagnos tic pro - cedures that they need when they need them.

Even Gary Doer got that, back in the day; former NDP Premier Gary Doer contracted out for some services. I shudder to think what will happen if this member, this Leader of the Opposition, ever becomes the leader and the premier of this province, because I tell you, that means that thousands upon thousands of surgeries and diagnostic procedures will be cancelled. That's not what Manitobans want. Private Agency Nursing Government Use MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Madam Speaker, I'd like to table new information we received through freedom of infor mation.

It shows the use of private agency nurses is accelerating under the PC government. In the first half of 2022, Southern Health spent $3.4 million. They are now on pace to have the highest use of agency nurses ever. What is the minister doing to address this over - reliance–[interjection]–it's an overreliance. Despite the fact that they want to heckle–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. MLA Asagwara: –and talk me down, Madam Speaker; it is an overreliance on private agencies. What is the minister doing to address this? Hon.

Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): I thank the member for Union Station for the question because, Madam Speaker, it gives me an op portunity to remind Manitobans that last y ear, when the Red Cross nurses came to Manitoba to assist us during the COVID pandemic, members opposite stood in this Chamber and said, send them home. But our gov ern- ment took the steps necessary during a challenging time to increase seats at the colleg e of nursing: 259 seats. And then we went further and added 30 ad- ditional seats at the Red River College.

Madam Speaker, $4.3 million for 37 addi tional nurse training seats at University College of the North, in the North– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for Union Station, on a supplementary question. MLA Asagwara: Madam Speaker, last week the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) praised all the contracting out her government has done of health services with the private sector. The result of that approach is that there are over 2,400 vacant nurse positions in the public system, and tens of millions of dollars are being spent on private agencies.

Meanwhile, our hospitals can't keep up with the waits that we've never seen before. As we've shown today, in the southern region, $3.4 million was spent in just the first six months of 2022.

2832 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 3, 2022 Will the minister explain why her gov ernment's approach means more and more for -profit private agencies? Ms. Gordon: Madam Speaker, I want to remind Manitobans that it was under the dark days of the NDP that individuals who wanted to come to Manitoba, internationally educated nurses, could not get licen- sure here. They said, no. On July 26th, our gov ern- ment said yes. We are adding m ore nurses to the system; 115 nurses graduated–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Gordon: –last October.

And more, Madam Speaker, will be added to the system, because the college of nursing has added a third intake. We will continue to work with organizations like the college of nursing to add more nurses to the system–something they were not willing to do. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a final supplementary. MLA Asagwara: Madam Speaker, the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) has said it very clearly that she's contracting out health care. Their approach is actively undermining public health care in Manitoba. There are more than 2,400– that's 2,400–nurse vacancies in the public system.

Nurses in the public system are currentl y being mandated like never before. Meanwhile, private agencies are provided more money and more flexibility. This needs to change. In the southern region, $3.4 million was spent in just the first six months of 2022. Why is the minister in creasingly relying on for - profit, private agencies? Ms. Gordon: Madam Speaker, for the internationally educated nurses that are watching today's discussion, I want them to know that our gov ernment is here to support them.

The dark days of the NDP, they heard no and received no support, but our gov ernment is providing $23,000 of financial assist ance for in - dividuals to get 'licent' and to go immediately into our health-care system. Our new undergraduate nurse employees program saw 63 third- and fourth-year nursing students join the health system, Madam Speaker. We are taking action. Where they said no, our government said yes. Surgical and Wait Times Development of Dashboard Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Russell Audet, a young farmer, has been wait ing for over two weeks for a spinal surgery after a tragic ATV accident.

Several times, he's been told that his surgery has been scheduled, only to be told hours later that he's been pushed back. Unfortunately, Russell's situation is not unique. Thousands of Manitobans are waiting for surgeries without any idea of when they're going to be scheduled. That's why the Premier needs to deliver on a surgical wait dashboard. Will she do so today? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): I want to put some facts on the record. Last week, there were 1,117 non- emergent sur- geries completed and 227 emergent surgeries were completed.

This is over 101.5 per cent of pre - pandemic levels and I want to thank all the health-care workers at the front line that are wo rking and so committed and passionate to provi ding care and surgeries to Manitobans during this very, very dif - ficult time. Last year, our gov ernment procured over 13,000 procedures through the RFSA process. We will continue to do the same to ensure Manitobans receive care. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. Ms.

Fontaine: The physical pain this young farmer and thousands of other Manitobans waiting for sur - geries that–are experiencing is 'unfathonable,' Madam Speaker. To make matters worse, Manitobans are waiting for surgeries and they don't know when they are going to be able to have their procedure. The PCs promised to launch a diagnos tic and surgical wait dashboard in July. They missed that deadline. Then they promised to launch it in September, and they've missed that deadline as well. Madam Speaker, Russell and Manitobans deserve to know when his surgery will be scheduled.

When will this gov ernment finally launch the dashboard they promised? Ms. Gordon: Under the NDP gov ernment, that individual would not receive surgery here in this

October 3, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2833 province or have the oppor tunity to receive service outside of the province, Madam Speaker. The – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Gordon: The dashboard, Madam Speaker, we want to ensure that we get it right. We want to ensure that it's user friendly for all Manitobans. We will get it right. We will release the dashboard to Manitobans as soon as it's ready, Madam Speaker. * (14:20) Madam Spea ker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary. Ms.

Fontaine: Madam Speaker, I clearly pointed out that they're not getting it right and, in the process, Manitobans are suffering. And they're suffering in pain. A surgical wait dashboard would let Manitobans know how long it will take to get the procedures they need. It would provide the data on how many people are waiting for procedures and when those procedures are going to be done in a day. Madam Speaker, thousands are waiting in pa in and they're not knowing that they're going to be able to receive the procedure and when they're going to get it.

When will this government finally deliver on launching a surgical wait dashboard? Ms. Gordon: Under the NDP, the Leader of the Op- position has said they would be suffering in pain for as long as they have to, Madam Speaker. Wait times for the last five years have been routinely published on the gov ernment website, in - cluding most surgeries, diagnostics and cancer care services. We want to ensure Manitobans have access to accurate infor mation–user-friendly infor mation. The dashboard will be released, Madam Speaker. It's just the NDP fear mongering again. There's no facts. We will release the dashboard.

Peguis First Nation Permanent Flood Protection Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas-Kameesak): Peguis First Nation commu nity members are disappointed. They waited all summer to hear from this government if they would commit to helping out and build permanent flood protec tion infra structure. Yet, they've heard nothing. Five times over the past 16 years, Peguis First Nation has had to deal with flooding. It's time for permanent flood protection infrastructure. Will the minister make a commitment today? Hon.

Doyle Piwniuk (Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure): I want to thank the member for The Pas-Kameesak for that question. I'm not quite sure where she's getting her infor - mation from, Madam Speaker, because myself and my colleague, the hon ourable member –Minister for Indigenous Reconciliation and Northern Relations, both–met with Chief Hudson to talk about Peguis, and we're–actually, we were supposed to have a meeting– [interjection]–actually, we were supposed to have a meeting with Patty Hajdu, Minister Patty Hajdu, but when the Queen passed away, the meeting has been postponed.

So I'm not quite sure, Madam Speaker, where she's getting that–her information from. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable member for The Pas -Kameesak, on a supplementary question. Ms. Lathlin: In fact, I got my infor mation directly from Chief Hudson. Every time Peguis First Nation is flooded, mas - sive damage is done to homes and lives are upended. In fact, 917 lives are still displaced from that commu- nity here in Winnipeg, yet no permanent solution has been invested in. Permanent solutions would save peoples' homes and it would save millions of dollars.

Why won't the minister do the common sense thing and invest in permanent flood protection? Mr. Piwniuk: The member should 'auckshy' realize that a lot of times when it comes to the responsibility for–when it comes to flood protec tion, it's with the Indigenous Services Canada, Madam Speaker. They're the ones that are leaders on when it comes to flooding, and they're the ones that are actually the ones that look at long term. And they have to lead on this project. And we actually have con versations already with the federal government to look at a long- term strategy. We're looking at short term.

Our sta ff have been out there to Peguis First Nation during the flood and

2834 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 3, 2022 making sure that they had all the assistance. We even sent them 50 pumps to help out with the First Nation. And we actually have con versations with Chief Hudson right now, and we're doi ng everything we– are–possible to make sure that we move forward and have a permanent solution. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for The Pas-Kameesak, on a final supplementary. Ms. Lathlin: Peguis First Nation com munity mem- bers were forcibly reloca ted to their current area in 1907. They were moved from an 'ambundant' farming area to a flood zone.

And yet, they still don't have permanent flood protec tion infra structure. This is wrong, Madam Speaker. The minister could commit to investing in permanent flood protection and infrastructure. Will he do so today? Ekosi. Mr. Piwniuk: Madam Speaker, the member for the Pas-Kameeak [phonetic], she could take a history lesson, because it was the federal gov ernment that moved the First Nations to–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Piwniuk: –the location right now. The thing is, we are working with the federal gov- ernment to make sure that we do things right – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Piwniuk: –Madam Speaker, and making sure that we do permanent structures when it comes to long-term opportunities, to make sure that we–there's flood mitigation for Peguis First Nation. We're there to help them, Madam Speaker. What is their plan? Madam Speaker: Order. Order. With all this noise that was emanating from the floor, I could not hear what was being said. And I'm going to ask for everybody's co-operation. There's heckling, then there's yelling. And I don't think any of that serves this House, and especially when the Speaker can't hear what is being said so I could rule on something.

So I'm going to ask for everybody's co-operation, please. Education System Funding Use of Consulting Firms Mr. Nello Altomare (Transcona): This government would rather give money to consultants than spend it in the classroom. First, it was one and a half million on their failed bill 64, then it was a quarter of a million on a curriculum evaluator. Now, through FIPPA, Madam Speaker, we've learned that they're spending a further one and a half mi llion on an education funding review. I'll table the documents. The minister could have saved this money and listened to what Manitobans want: no more cuts to education.

Will the minister listen to Manitobans and stop making the cuts to education? Hon. Wayne Ewasko (Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): I ap preciate the question coming from the member from Transcona where he's at least acknowl edging the fact that, yes, we do actually answer FIPPA requests, Madam Speaker.

And it gives me an opportunity, Madam Speaker– I will get into further answering of the member's question in a few seconds, but I do want to say thank you to all of the teachers, the students, the support staff, our custodial staff, our bus maintenance personnel, to make sure that we had started this year off in more of a normal–a normalcy. So thank you. A big shout -out to absolutely everybody involved for kicking off the '22 school year without a hitch. Thanks, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Transcona, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Altomare: While the minister continues to defer and deflect, educators continue to work in their class- rooms in a system that's been underfunded since 2016. And that's a fact. It's laid out in the fra mes, Madam Speaker. Seven Oaks had to cut 28 staff. Brandon School Division had to cut 11. One and a half million could have been spent on provi ding children with the supports they need. While the minister is sitting there deferring, will they stop making these unneces sary hires of these consultants? Mr. Ewasko: It's very interesting that the member, my friend and former colleague within the education

October 3, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2835 profession, stands up and puts misinformation out on the record, Madam Speaker. He knows that thi s year alone, Madam Speaker, we're putting in $460 million into the '22 -23 school year. That includes, Madam Speaker–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Ewasko: –$51 million of an increase in annual operating budget; $77 million in ad ditional fun d- ing to assist with financial pressures; $22 million to strengthen student learning and supports; and $2 million to expand the Elders and Knowledge Keepers in Schools Initiative.

Madam Speaker, not going to take any lessons from this member from Transc ona or his self - promoting leader as well. We– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for Transcona, on a final supplementary. Mr. Altomare: I'll just remind the minister that in 2016, the Province used to cover 62 per cent of edu- cation costs total. It is now down to 56 per cent, Madam Speaker. That is shameful and that is on the record. * (14:30) Parents and teachers will be the first to tell this government that funding is not keeping up with demands.

School divisions a re being forced to make cuts while this gov ernment is giving millions to consultants, something they regularly do. They gut the Department of Educa tion and then have to hire consultants to do the work that we used to do. That's just wrong, Madam Speaker. Will the minister stop this giving of millions to consultants and invest in our schools? Mr. Ewasko: Madam Speaker, we know on this side of the House that parents, teachers, staff, they want a government leading them in the way to make sure that they're working on–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Ewasko: –literacy and 'numeraskies'–numeracy skills and including also Indigenous education and inclusion. I know math is hard, and I know that the member from Transcona, really, if he starts d ipping into the numbers, Madam Speaker, he's going to see that there's $460 million of new funding going to school divisions. We're working quite closely with our edu - cation partners–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Ewasko: –all across this great province of ours.

I know that the member from Transcona decided to run in Transcona under the leadership of the member from Fort Rouge because he saw– Madam Speaker: The honourable member's time has expired. [interjection] Order. Disabled EIA Recipients in Long-Term Care Hourly Rate Charges for Escorted Appointments Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): In June, I met with five con stituents with disabilities under the age of 60 who are living in long-term care.

They may have MS, strokes, brain inj uries or a 'degenderative' disease, and they have to pay for their own upkeep out of EIA, which leaves them with less than $10 a day, or ten hundred and seventy –$270 a month in disposable income. They want to have dignity and independence, but in 2018 this PC gov ernment started charging them $30 an hour and a minimum of three hours to get them to ap pointments accompanied. One third of their monthly income might go for just one X-ray or test.

Will this gov ernment imme diately reverse the decision and ensure these people can get to their ap- pointments free of charge as they did before? Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister responsible for Accessibility): Madam Speaker, our gov ernment recognizes that people living with dis abilities have certainly undergone a very challenging time with the onset of a global pandemic in the last few years. That is why we've made some historic invest - ments in dis ability services.

That is why we've also raised the wages for people who work in the sector, because we know that there i s a massive shortage of skilled work in that sector, so we've enhanced the wages for the direct service workers and have made other invest ments to ensure that people with dis - abilities can get the services that they need when they need it most. Madam Spe aker: The honourable member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Lamont: As I mentioned, all these people living in care are paying part of their own way, either from EIA, which has barely changed in 36 years, or from a sliding scale based on household income.

2836 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 3, 2022 The shared costs can be financially crushing for a spouse and family. So, to relieve their loved ones, they may get a divorce and take EIA instead. It is hard to imagine a policy that is more cruel than one that forces an individual with a disability to break ties with their family because it makes them feel like a burden. This needs to change. We will work with every MLA to end this immediately. Will the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) and minister commit today to ending this inhumane policy? Ms.

Squires: Our gov ernment recognizes that families were struggling, and that is why we came out with an $87-million affordability package earlier this month, which included $50-a-month increase to every EIA recipient's household income. That i s the first increase that has occurred since 2004. And we've also increased other invest ments.

We've created a dis ability income support program, Madam Speaker, because we want people with –who are having severe and prolonged disabilities not to be on EIA at all, but to be on a separate income support program where they can receive a wage, receive the benefits and the services that they need. Increase in Crime Community Safety Initiatives Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): This prov- incial gov ernment has a respon sibility in keeping Manitobans safe.

Just over the last week, and just in Tyndall Park, people have posted on Facebook how garages have been broken into, cameras and windows have been damaged, personal items have been stolen from yards and hydro meters in Burrows have been ripped off of businesses. Madam Speaker, we have amazing com munity patrol groups working with our police services, but there are prov incial departments, such as addictions, Housing and Education, just to name a few, that have an impact on our communities.

With crime rising in Manitoba, what specific actions is the Premier or Justice Minister taking or going to take that will contribute to keeping Manitobans safe? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I thank the member opposite for the question. There's no doubt that all of us are concerned whenever we hear instances of crime, Madam Speaker.

When it comes to the provincial government over the course of the last several m onths, we've made many investments when it comes to com munity in - vestments, whether it's Bear Clan in Winnipeg, work- ing with the Winnipeg Police Service to try and ensure that we get guns that are used in illegal manners off of the street. We've inves ted other resources when it comes to child protec tion, other resources when it comes to helping those who need addictions treatment led by the various ministers in this government.

We've also spoken to the federal gov ernment about changes that have to happen with the Criminal Code. And I hope that the member opposite will join us in trying to ensure that those calls for Criminal Code changes are successful from the federal govern- ment, Madam Speaker. Knife-Related Violent Crime Bail Condition Recommendation Mr. James Teitsma (Radisson): Manitobans have been shocked by random acts of violence, often using knives. Sadly, many of the individuals committing these crimes have previously been involved with our justice system and they're sometimes out on bail.

Can the Minister of Justice please explain how our government has taken steps to address the issue of knife-related violent crime? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I want to thank the member for Radisson for his question and for his advocacy on this issue. I know that it's incred ibly frustrating for those who are victims of crime when it comes to knife attacks or other means of violence, Madam Speaker.

That is why we've said to the federal government, currently under the Criminal Code, it's virtually im - possible to deny bail for an individual who's com - mitted a crime using a knife. We would like to see changes to the Criminal Code to make it similar to using a gun in a crime and reverse the onus when i t comes to bail to make it more difficult for someone who is accused of that kind of a violent crime from getting bail, Madam Speaker. I know when this provision came out, the Liberals spoke against it; the NDP said nothing.

While the Liberals took the wrong position and the NDP took no position, this government will always stand with the victims, and the Progressive Conservatives will work to make a safer Manitoba.

October 3, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2837 Agricultural Crown Land Leasing Request to Reverse Changes Mr. Diljeet Brar (Burrows): The new system for awarding Crown lands is not working. I've spoken to hundreds of producers over the last three years. None will defend the system the PC government has put in place. Carson Callum of the beef producers says that the changes do not l ine up with what they recom- mended. Why has the minister not reversed his gov ern- ment's changes to the Crown land system? Hon. Derek Johnson (Minister of Agriculture): I'd like to thank my critic for the question.

As we know, the Agri culture Crown lands are a very important source of land for young farmers and for the livestock industry. And, obviously, to support a vibrant and sus tainable agri culture sector, stake - holders have told us –many consultations have been held–that rent was challe nging due to recent climate changes driven by droughts and floods. To help our ranchers recover from the extreme climate, a temporary reduction is beginning from 2023 to 2025. Madam Speaker, this will return almost $4 million to ag Crown land users. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Brar: The PC government consulted none before changing the Crown land's regula tion several years ago. The right approach would be to restore a system that prioritizes you ng producers. Matthew Atkinson from beef producers' Crown lands committee says the new system makes it very difficult for the young pro- ducers to outbid those more esta blished. It's leaving our younger producers behind. When will the minister reverse his gov ernment's changes to the Crown land system? Mr.

Johnson: I'd like to thank my colleague for the question. * (14:40) As I mentioned, the temporary rent reduction authorized by Treasury Board will begin in 2023, Madam Speaker. It will decrease th e rent on agricul- tural Crown lands on a declining basis with rents reduced by 50 per cent this coming year, followed by 33 per cent in 2024 and 15 per cent in 2025, resulting in $4 million to support the ranchers. Public engagement is currently on EngageMB. I suggest the member log on and fill it out. Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS Bibliothèque Régionale Jolys Regional Library Mr.

Nello Altomare (Transcona): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of this petition is as follows: The Bibliothèque Régionale Jolys–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Altomare: –has been served by notice by the Red River Valley School Division to vacate the premises currently situated in the auditorium of École Héritage school by March 31, 2023.

(2) The auditorium was originally built in the 1960s by renowned Manitoba architect Étienne Gaboury, and it has been home to JRL for 48 years.

(3) A photo of the auditorium captioned the regional library is published in a 2008 document titled heritage buildings in RM De Salaberry and St. Pierre Jolys. It is marked as an im portant modern building that could attain the status of heritage site.

(4) The JRL and Red River Valley School Division have flourished from a mutually beneficial memorandum of understanding for 54 years.

(5) Their shared collection boasts over 50,000 books and has the fourth largest collection of French-language literature in rural Manitoba.

(6) Students that are bused in from the neighbouring municipalities that do not have a public library, such as Niverville, Grunthal and Kleefield [phonetic], are provided with free access to the public library and its fourth largest collection of French books in rural Manitoba during the school year. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To request the Minister of Labour, Consumer Protection and Gov ernment Services to consider granting the auditorium to the JRL by March 'fi rd'– 1st, 2023.

(2) To request the Minister of Education to recog- nize the value that JRL provides to the student popu- lation of ÉHS, as well as the com munities of Village de Saint-Pierre-Jolys and the RM De Salaberry.

2838 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 3, 2022

(3) To request the Minister of Edu cation and the Minister of Francophone Affairs to recognize that an MOU between the Red River Valley and JRL is mutually, financially and culturally beneficial.

(4) To request the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage to recog nize the heritage potential of this important building and its status in the com munity; and

(5) To request the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage to prevent any renovations to the auditorium that would destroy and devaluate the architectural integrity of the building. And this pet ition has been signed by many Manitobans. Thank you. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Foot-Care Services Mr. Diljeet Brar (Burrows): Madam Speaker, I wish to prese nt the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background of this petition is as follows: The population of those aged 55- plus has grown to approximately 2,500 in the city of Thompson. A large per centage of people in this age group require necessary medical foot care and treatment. A large percentage of those who are elderly and/or diabetic are also living on low incomes. The northern regional health authority previously provided essential med ical foot- care services to seniors and those living with diabetes until 2019, then subsequently cut the program after the last two nurses filling those positions retired.

The number of seniors and those with diabetes has only continued to grow in Thompson and surrounding areas. There is no adequate medical care available in the city and region,

whereas the city of Winnipeg has 14 medical foot-care centres. The implications of inadequate or lack of podiatric care can lead to amputations. The city of Thompson also serves as a regional health-care service provider, and the need for foot care extends beyond just those served in the capital city of the province. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to provide the services of two nurses to restore essential medical foot-care treatment to the city of Thompson effective April 1st, 2022. And this has been signed by many Manitobans.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Drug Overdose Reporting MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): I wish to present the following petition to the Legis lative Assembly. To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background of this petition is as follows:

(1) Across the province, many Manitobans continue to struggle with addictions, and the pandemic has led to even more death and worsened the ongoing public health crisis of opioid overdoses.

(2) Three hundred and seventy -two Manitobans died from an overdose in 2020; that's over one a day, and 87 per cent higher than in 2019.

(3) Manitoba is expected to exceed over 400 overdose deaths in 2021, but the data is not publicly available since the last public reporting of opioid deaths was published in 2019.

(4) The data for overdose drug deaths from 2020 and 2021 was compiled through media inquiries, and this needs to change.

(5) Access to timely data on the harms of drugs helps to inform both government and stakeholders on where to take action and target resources needed in various communities.

(6) Manitoba is the only province not provi ding regular, timely data to the federal gov ernment opioid information portal.

(7) Manitobans deserve a gov ernment that takes the growing drug crisis seriously and will report the data publicly in a timely matter to target actions and allow for accountability. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the prov incial gov ernment to enact Bill 217, The Fatality Inquiries Amendment Act

October 3, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2839 (Overdose Death Reporting), to require the Province to publish the number of drug overdose deaths, as well as the type of drug, on a gov ernment website in a timely fashion. This has been signed by many Manitobans. Hearing Aids Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: A hearing aid is a battery -powered electronic device designed to improve an individual's ability to perceive sound.

Worn in or behind a person's ear, they make some sounds louder, helping people hear better when it's quiet and when it's noisy. People who suffer hearing loss, whether due to aging, illness, employment or accident, not only lose the ability to communicate effectively with friends, family or colleagues, they also can experience un - employment, social isolation and struggles with mental health. Hearing loss can also impact the safety of an individual with hearing loss, as it affects the ability to hear cars coming, safety alarms, call 911, et cetera.

A global commission on the state of the research for dementia care and prevention released an updated consensus report in July 2020, identifying 12 key risk factors for dementia and cognitive decline. The strongest risk factor that was indicated was hearing loss. It was calculated that up to 8 per cent of the total number of dementia cases could potentially be avoided with management of hearing loss. Hearing aids are therefore essential to the mental health and well-being of Manitobans–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Gerrard: –especially to those at significant risk of dementia, Alzheimer's, a disorder of the brain affecting cognition in the ever -growing senior population. Audiologists are health -care professionals who help patients decide which k ind of hearing aid will work best for them, based on the type of hearing loss, patient's age and ability to manage small devices, lifestyle and ability to afford. The cost of hearing aids can be prohibitive to many Manitobans, depending on their income a nd circumstances.

Hearing aids cost on average $995 to $4,000 per ear, and many professionals say the hear - ing aids only work at their best for five years. Manitoba residents under the age of 18 who require a hearing aid, as prescribed by an otolaryn - gologist or audiologist, will receive either an 80 per cent reimbursement from Manitoba Health of a fixed amount for an analog device, up to a maximum of $500 per ear, or 80 per cent of a fixed amount for a digital or analog programmable device, up to a maximum of $1,800.

However, this reimbursement is not available to Manitobans who need the devices who are over the age of 18, which will result in financial hardship for many young people entering the workforce, students and families. In addition, seniors representing 14.3 per cent of Manitoba's population are not eligible for reimbursement, despite being the group most likely in need of a hearing aid. * (14:50) Most insurance companies only provide a minimal partial cost of a hearing aid, and many Manitobans, especially retired persons, age old pensioners and other low-income earners do not have access to health insurance plans.

The Province of Quebec's hearing devices pro- gram covers all costs related to hearing aids and assistive listening devices, including the purchase, repair and replacement. Alberta offers subsidies to all seniors 65 and over and low-income adults 18 to 64 once every five years. New Brunswick provides coverage for the purchase and maintenance not only –not covered by other agencies o r private health insurance plans, as well as assistance for those for whom the purchase would cause financial hardship.

Manitobans over age 18 are only eligible for sup- port for hearing aids if they are receiving Employment and Income Assist ance, and the reimbursement only provides a maximum of $500 an ear. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to consider hearing loss as a medical treatment under Manitoba Health.

(2) To urge the provincial government to provide income-based coverage for hearing aids to all who need them, as hearing has been proven to be essential to Manitobans' cognitive, mental and social health and well-being.

2840 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 3, 2022 Signed by Hope Stadt, Freda Carlson, Elaine Maier and many, many other Manitobans. Louise Bridge Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of this petition is as follows:

(1) Over 25,000 vehicles per day cross the Louise Bridge, which has served as a vital link for vehicular traffic between northeast Winnipeg and the downtown for the last 110 years.

(2) The current structure will undoubtedly be declared unsafe in a few years as it has deteriorated extensively, becoming functionally obsole te, subject to more frequent unplanned repairs and cannot be widened to accommodate future traffic capacity.

(3) As far back as 2008, the City of Winnipeg, City, has studied where the new re placement bridge should be situated.

(4) After including the bridge replacement in the City's five-year capital budget forecast in 2009, the new bridge became a short-term construction priority in the City's transportation master plan of 2011.

(5) City capital and budget plans identified re - placement of the Louise Bridge on a site just east of the bridge and expropriated homes there on the south side of Nairn Avenue in anticipation of a 2015 start.

(6) In 2014, the new City adminis tration did not make use of available federal infrastructure funds.

(7) The new Louise Bridge Com mittee began its campaign to demand a new bridge and its surveys confirmed residents wanted a new bridge beside the current bridge, with the old bridge kept open for local traffic.

(8) The NDP provincial government signalled its firm commitment to partner with the City on replacing the Louise Bridge in its 2015 Throne Speech. Unfor - tunately, provincial infrastructure initiatives, such as the new Louise bridge, came to a halt with the election of the Progressive Conservative government in 2016.

(9) More recently, the City tethered the Louise Bridge replacement issue to its new trans portation master plan and eastern corridor project. Its recom- mendations have now identified the location of the new Louise bridge to be placed just to the west of the current bridge, not to the east as originally proposed. The City expropriation process has begun.

(10) The provincial budget due in mid-April 2022 is the Province's oppor tunity to announce its portion of funding for this long overdue vital link to northeast Winnipeg and Transcona. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Premier to financially assist the City of Winnipeg in her new 2022 prov incial budget to build this three -lane bridge in each direction to maintain this vital link between northeast Winnipeg, Transcona and the downtown.

(2) To urge the provincial government to recom- mend that the City of Winnipeg keep the old bridge fully open to traffic while the new bridge is under con- struction; and

(3) To urge the provincial government to consider the feasibility of keeping the old bridge open for active transportation in the future. And this petition is signed by many, many Manitobans. Provincial Road 224 Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas-Kameesak): I wish to present the following petition to the Legis lative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Provincial Road No. 224 serves Peguis First Nation, Fisher River Cree Nation and surrounding communities. The road is in need of substan tial repairs.

(2) The road has been in poor condition for years and has numer ous potholes, uneven driving surfaces and extremely narrow shoulders.

(3) Due to recent popula tion growth in the area, there has been increased vehicle and pedestrian use of Provincial Road 224.

(4) Without repair, Prov incial Road 224 will continue to pose a hazard to many Manitobans who use it regularly.

(5) Concerned Manitobans are requesting that Provincial Road 224 be assessed and repaired urgently to improve safety for its users. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Infrastructure to complete an assessment of Provincial Road 224 and implement

October 3, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2841 the appropriate repairs using public funds as quickly as possible. This petition has been signed by many, many Manitobans. Ekosi. Bibliothèque Régionale Jolys Regional Library MLA Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): Madame la Présidente, je désire présenter la pétition suivante à l'Assemblée législative. À l'Assemblée législative du Manitoba, le contexte de cette pétition est le suivant :

(1) La Bibliothèque Régionale Jolys Regional Library, B-R-G, a été avisée par la Division scolaire Vallée de la rivière Rouge, DSVRR, de libérer les locaux actuellement situés dans l'auditorium de l'École Heritage School, ÉHS, d'ici le 31 mars 2023.

(2) L'auditorium a été construit dans les années 1960 par le célèbre architecte manitobain Étienne Gaboury et la B-R-G y est installée depuis 48 ans.

(3) Une p hoto de l'auditorium intitulée « La bibliothèque régionale » est publiée dans un document de 2008 intitulé « Bâtiments patrimoniaux des MR De Salaberry et Saint -Pierre-Jolys ». Il est indiqué qu'il s'agit d'un bâtiment moderne important qui pourrait atteindre le statut de site patrimonial.

(4) B -R-G et DSVRR ont prospéré grâce à un protocole d'entente mutuellement bénéfique pendant 54 ans.

(5) Leur collection commune compte plus de 50 000 livres et possède la quatrième plus grande collection de littérature de langue française dans les régions rurales du Manitoba.

(6) Les élèves qui sont transportés par autobus des municipalités voisines qui n'ont pas de bibliothèque publique, comme Niverville, Grunthal et Kleefeld, ont accès gratuitement à la bibliothèque p ublique et à sa quatrième plus grande collection de livres en français dans les régions rurales du Manitoba pendant l'année scolaire.

Nous présentons à l'Assemblée législative du Manitoba la pétition suivante : (1) demander au ministre du Travail, de la Protection des consommateurs et des Services gouvernementaux d'envisager de concéder l'auditorium à la B-R-G d'ici le 1er mars 2023; (2) demander au ministre de l'Éducation de reconnaître la valeur que la B -R-G apporte à la population étudiante de l'ÉHS, ainsi qu'aux communautés du Village de Saint-Pierre-Jolys et de la MR De Salaberry; * (15:00) (3) demander au ministre de l'Éducation et au ministre des Affaires francophones de reconnaître qu'un protocole d'entente entre la DSVRR et la B-R-G est mutuellement bénéfique, financièrement et culturellement; (4) demander au ministre du Sport, de la Culture et du Patrimoine de reconnaître le potentiel patrimonial de cet important bâtiment et son statut au sein de la communauté; (5) demander au ministre du Sport, de la Culture et du Patrimoine d'empêcher toute rénovation de l'auditorium qui détruirait et dévaloriserait l'intégrité architecturale du bâtiment.

Cette pétition a été signée par Michelle Gendron, Katrina Poirier, Denise Perron et– Translation Madam Speake r, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, The background for this petition is as follows:

(1) The Bibliothèque Régionale Jolys Regional Library (JRL) was notified by the Red River V alley School Division (RRVSD) to vacate premises currently located in the auditorium of the École Héritage School by March 31, 2023.

(2) The auditorium was built in the 1960s by famous Manitoban architect Étienne Gaboury, and it has been home to the JRL for 48 years.

(3) A photo of the auditorium captioned "The Regional Library" was published in a 2008 document titled "Significant Heritage Buildings of De Salaberry and St. Pierre Jolys". It is described as an important modern building that could attain the status of heritage site.

(4) The JRL and the RRVSD have flourished by means of a mutually beneficial memorandum of understanding for 54 years.

(5) Their shared collection boasts over 50,000 books and includes the fourth largest collection of French- language literature in rural Manitoba.

2842 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 3, 2022

(6) During the school year, students who are bused in from neighbouring municipalities that do not have a public library, such as Niverville, Grunthal and Kleefeld, are provided with free access to the public library and its fourth largest collection of French- language literature in rural Manitoba. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Minister of Labour, Consumer Protection and Government Services to consider granting the auditorium to the JRL by March 1, 2023.

(2) To urge the Minister of Education to recognize the value that JRL provides to the student population of ÉHS, as well as the communities of Village de Saint-Pierre-Jolys and the RM De Salaberry.

(3) To urge the Minister of Education and the Minister responsible for Francophone Affairs to recognize that a memorandum of understanding between the RRVSD and the JRL is mutually, financially and culturally beneficial.

(4) To urge the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage to recogniz e the heritage potential of this important building and its status in the community.

(5) To urge the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage to prevent any renovations to the auditorium that would destroy or devalue the architectural integrity of the building. This petition was signed by Michelle Gendron, Katrina Poirier, Denise Perron and– English That's it. Thanks. Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legis lative Assembly of Mani toba, the background to this–of this petition is as follows:

(1) The Bibliothèque Régionale Jolys Regional Library, JRL, has been served notice by the Red River Valley School Division, RRVSD, to vacate the premises currently situated in the auditorium of École Héritage school, ÉHS, by March 31st, 2023.

(2) The auditorium was originally built in the 1960s by renowned Manitoba architect Étienne Gaboury, and it has been home to the JRL for 48 years.

(3) A photo of the auditorium captioned the regional library is published in a 2008 document titled heritage buildings in the RM De Salaberry and St. Pierre Jolys. It is marked as an im portant modern building that could attain the status of a heritage site.

(4) JRL and RRVSD have flourished from a mutually be neficial memorandum of under standing for 54 years.

(5) Their shared collection boasts over 50,000 books and has the fourth largest collection of French-language literature in rural Manitoba.

(6) Students that are bused in from the neighbouring communities that do not have public libraries, such as Niverville, Grunthal and Kleefeld, are provided with free access to the public library and its fourth largest collection of French books in rural Manitoba during the school year. We petition the Legis lative A ssembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To request the Minister of Labour, Consumer Protection and Gov ernment Services to consider granting the auditorium to the JRL by March 1st, 2023.

(2) To request the Minister of Education to recog- nize the value that JRL provides to the student popu- lation of ÉHS, as well as the com munities of Village de Saint-Pierre-Jolys and the RM De Salaberry.

(3) To request the Minister of Edu cation and the Minister of Francophone Affairs to recognize that an MOU betwee n the RRVSD and JRL is mutually, financially and culturally beneficial.

(4) To request the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage to recog nize the heritage potential of this important building and its status in the community.

(5) To request the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage to prevent any renovations to the auditorium that would destroy and devalue the architectural integrity of the building. And this petition has been signed by many Manitobans. Foot-Care Services Mr. Eric Redhead (Thompson): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background of this petition is as follows: The population of those aged 55 and up has grown to approximately 2,500 in the city of Thompson.

October 3, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2843 A large percentage of people in this age group require necessary medical foot care and treatment. A large percentage of those who are elderly and/or diabetic are also living on low incomes. The northern regional healt h author ity previous provided essential medical foot -care services to seniors and those living with diabetes until 2019, then subsequently cut the program after the last two nurses filling those positions retired. The number of seniors with those–and those with diabetes have only continued to grow in Thompson and surrounding areas. There is no adequate medical care available in the city and the region,

whereas the city of Winnipeg has 14 medical foot-care centres. The implications and inadequate or l ack of podiatric care can lead to amputations. The city of Thompson also serves as regional health-care service provider, and the need for foot care extends beyond just those served in the capital city of the province. We petition the 'legislaty' Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to provide the services of two nurses to restore essential medical foot-care treatment in the city of Thompson effective April 1st, 2022. This has been signed by many, many Manitobans. Mrs.

Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The population of those aged 55- plus has grown to approximately 2,500 in the city of Thompson.

(2) A large percentage of people in this age group require necessary medical foot care and treatment.

(3) A large percentage of those who are elderly and/or diabetic are also living on low incomes.

(4) The northern regional health author ity previously provided essential medical foot -care services to seniors and those living with diabetes until 2019, then subsequently cut the program after the last two nurses filling those positions retired.

(5) The number of seniors and those with diabetes has only c ontinued to grow in Thompson and sur - rounding areas.

(6) There is no adequate medical care available in the city and region,

whereas the city of Winnipeg has 14 medical foot-care centres.

(7) The implications of inadequate or lack of podiatric care can lead to amputations.

(8) The city of Thompson also serves as a regional health-care service provider, and the need for foot care extends beyond just those served in a capital city of the province. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to provide the services of two nurses to restore essential medical foot-care treatment to the city of Thompson effective April 1st, 2022. And this has been signed by Steve Prubal [phonetic], Darlene Beardy, Greg Stott and many other Manitobans. Madam Speaker: Further petitions? Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Thank you, Madam Speaker and others. I'd like to announce that the Standing Committee on Agri culture and Food will meet on Wednesday, October 5th, 2022 , and, if necessary, on Thursday, October 6th, 2022, at 6 p.m. to consider Bill 22, The Environment Amendment Act (Pesticide Restrictions). Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the Standing Com mittee on Agri culture and Food will meet on Wednesday, October 5th, 2022, and, if necessary, on Thursday, October 6th, 2022, at 6 p.m. to consider Bill 22, The Environment Amendment Act (Pesticide Restrictions). Mr.

Goertzen: Thank you again, Madam Speaker and others. I'd like to announce that the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Dev elopment will meet on Wednesday, October 5th, 2022, at 6 p.m. to consider

2844 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 3, 2022 the following: Bill 13, The Social Services Appeal Board Amend ment Act; Bill 14, The Drivers and Vehicles Amendment, Highway Traffic Amend ment and Manitoba Public Insurance Cor poration Amend- ment Act; Bill 24, The Real Property Valuation Board and Related Amendments Act; Bill 208, The Teachers' Pensi ons Amend ment Act; and Bill 240, The Jewish Heritage Month Act. * (15:10) Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Dev - elopment will meet on Wednesday, October 5th, 2022, at 6 p.m. to consider the following: Bill 13, The Social Services Appeal Board Amend ment Act; Bill 14, The Drivers and Vehicles Amendment, Highway Traffic Amend ment and Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act; Bill 24, The Real Property Valuation Board and Related Amend - ments Act; Bill 208, The Teachers' Pensions Amend- ment Act; and Bill 240, The Jewish Heritage Month Act. * * * Mr.

Goertzen: Could you please resolve into Committee of Supply. Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will consider Estimates this afternoon. The House will now resolve into Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ROOM 254 HEALTH Mr. Chairperson (Dennis Smook): It looks like we're all here. Minister, are you ready to continue? Minister, if you can hear us, could you give us a wave, please? Will the Com mittee of Supply please come to order. Before we begin, I have a leave request for this

section of the Committee of Supply. Is there leave to allow the opposition to sit at the opposite side of the table to allow them to see the screens that are situated in the room? Is there leave? [Agreed] This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume con sideration of the Estimates for the Department of Health. Questioning for this de part- ment will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): I'd like to welcome the minister back to Estimates. I hope that she had a good summer, an enjoyable summer, and I look forward to hearing the feedback regarding the questions I'm going to ask specific to Health. I'd like to start by asking the minister about the $50 million that were prioritized for addressing the surgical and diagnos tic backlog.

Earlier in the Estimates proceedings, the minister advised that the entire $50 million –for priority procedures worth $10 million, and for the COVID backlog, $40 million had been spent–that was what the minister advised the allocation of that spending was. I'd like to point the minister to page 25 of their annual report. There it shows the total number of surgeries in the WRHA declined on a year -over-year basis between '20 and 2021, and 2021-22. Can the minister explain the reason for that decline? * (15:20) Hon.

Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): I want to welcome the member for Union Station back to the Estimates process. And for all those around the table, I welcome them to today's Estimates for the Ministry of Health. I am going to seek some clari fication from the member. The annual report that they are referring to is for, I believe, the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority and its Main Operating Room (OR) Surgical Cases on page 25. Please clarify if that is the case. And the member has also referenced $50 million for diagnostic and surgical recovery. Those are two separate items.

So, the $50 million for the backlog and to address diagnostics and surgeries is separate from the infor mation that's being reported in this annual report. So, if I could just seek some clarification from the member regarding the question, please. Thank you, Mr. Chair. MLA Asagwara: Yes, the minister is correct, I am referring to the chart on page 25–the table on page 25 that is titled Main Operating Room (OR) Surgica l Cases.

October 3, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2845 I guess the gist of my question is, how did $50 million get spent on priority surgeries and yet the reported number of surgeries completed in the WRHA has declined? So that's what I'm trying to assess here, if the minister can provide some clarity. Ms. Gordon: I thank the member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) for the question. I do want to put some clarification on the record. So, the amounts that are shown in the annual report for the WRHA, those are dollars that are separate from the $50 million.

The WRHA is using its own baseline operating funding that they receive annually to carry out these surgeries. The $50 million is separate from what is showing here. The surgeries are not reported as part of this because the $50 million can include surgeries under our request for supply arrangement, it can include medical remuneration and more and it could be done at facilities that are outside of the WRHA. So, we're doing a bit of mixing apples and oranges here, because it's separate. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

MLA Asagwara: I'm sure the minister can understand that Manitobans may be concerned that $50 million was touted by this gov ernment as a way to address the surgical and diagnos tic backlog, and one would imagine that with those efforts being made by the government that in fact we would see improve- ments in the number of surgeries being performed and reportedly being performed in the WRHA –that there would be some sort of relationship there in terms of surgeries–Manitobans getting long-awaited surgeries that they des perately need.

So I would hope the minister can appreciate that there will be many folks very concerned about why it is that there's a marked decrease in surgeries being performed. I'm going to ask the minister again to please pro- vide clarity as to why the number of surgeries being performed, completed, in the WRHA has declined year over year over year, to the point of nearly 500 less surgeries performed from 2021–sorry, 2020– '20-21 to 2021-2022. Thank you. Ms.

Gordon: I'm pleased to remind Manitobans that during the pandemic several individuals were re - deployed from their home units and their home health facilities to assist in our intensive -care units for very sick individuals, and so we saw a marked decrease in the number of surgeries that were being done. Now, this spring, in the Omicron wave, the –we had individuals begin to return to their home loca - tions, but that's just this year, spring of 2022.

So, the decreases that the member is referring to are natural decreases that occurred as a result of the pandemic and the slow down in surgeries that everyone is aware of and led to some of the backlog that we're dealing with right now.

And so the $50 million should–is separate, and it's dollars that have not just provided to WRHA for surgeries, and the report the member is referring to is an annual report solely for the Winnipeg Regional Health Author ity, and in this report, they are using their baseline operating funding to carry out those surgeries. * (15:30) The $50 million the member refers to for priority procedures and for the backlog is separately reported, Mr. Chair. Thank you. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that response.

And again, I'm sure the minister can appre ciate that Manitobans will wonder how it is that $50 million can be set aside and invested to address a backlog, and yet we don't see those decisions increasing operating capacity within the public health -care system which the vast majority of Manitobans access and will need to access and should access universally. I'd like to ask about the number of beds in our hospitals. So, the number of beds has again gone down in Winnipeg hospitals. I'm sure the minister is well aware of this. Another 30 beds were lost this year. That's a total loss of 154 beds since 2017-18.

My question to the minister is, why are we still losing hospital beds? Ms. Gordon: I thank the member for Union Station for the question. I do recall that this question was raised in the previous Estimates process and an answer was provided. I do want to remind the member that we tried to maintain a bed map, Mr. Chair, but it's a fluid thing. Beds change according to the needs of our patient population and is a snapshot in time. So there are individuals that are having outpatie nt surgeries, so there's less of a need for them to have in -patient care in a bed.

2846 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 3, 2022 The member may recall, because they worked in the health system back in 2000, the early 2000s, when gamma knife surgeries were being performed and there was less of a need for a person to spend an extended period of time in a hospital bed. So, Mr. Chair, it's a fluid report, and each time we take a snapshot it's just a snapshot for that parti cular period of time. But it does change on a regular basis. Thank you, Mr. Chair. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that response.

I'd actually like to go back to my question re - garding the WRHA report that shows a decrease in the number of surgeries performed year over year and a substantial decrease from 2020-2021 to 2021-2022. Can the minister just be very clear, because I was– I'm actually–when I reflected on her response, it's a little murky. Can the minister be very clear: is she saying that none of the $50 million that were allocated for priority surgeries, that none of those dollars would've been spent on surgeries performed in the WRHA? Can the minister just be very, very clear with that? Ms.

Gordon: The member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) is correct; I am not saying that, Mr. Chair. MLA Asagwara: Okay, so can the minister provide clarity: Out of that $50 million, how much of those funds were allocated to the WRHA to address the surgeries? The minister just finished saying that they're separate, that the WRHA used their own dollars to perform the surgeries an d the $50 million was separate. Now I'm asking for clarity and the minister's saying she didn't. So, you know, which one is it?

Were–is any of the $50 million that were allocated for priority pro - cedures, were any of those funds spent in the WRHA to address surgeries? And if yes, how much? * (15:40) Ms. Gordon: I do want to place on the record that the–some of the funds from the $50 million has been used to procure, oh, close to 15,000 procedures, and to date we have spent $50.136 million; so over the $50 million that our gov ernment earmarked for this purpose. The dollars flow to different entities: to physicians, to diagnostic services, to surgery.

The–I'd point the member to page 64 of our annual report, where there is a breakdown of the $50 million. It has been audited, and so I encourage the member to take a look at that–that $50.136 million, Mr. Chair. Thank you. MLA Asagwara: I have to say, it's –I'm–just a little bit strange because the minister started by being very clear that the dollars –the $50 million–was separate from the WRHA dollars that were respon sible for addressing these surgeries, which we know have sig - nificantly decreased in surgeries being performed in the authority.

And then the minister seems to pivot and says, no, that's not exactly what she was saying when she said that. And so I suppose I'm just really hoping the minister can be very clear. I have asked for the minister to explicitly provide for us if those dollars, if any of the $50 million, were spent–were allocated, rather, for the WRHA to spend on surgeries being performed. It's a pretty straightfor- ward question.

I'm hoping the minister can just provide a clear answer so we can move on from this and understand why is it that that $50 million that, you know, they touted as a way to address the backlog does not –did not have an impact on actually in - creasing surgical capacity in the public system, which is what Manitobans need. Vast majority of Manitobans are accessing health care and surgeries in the public system. And so, the minister has kind of reversed course here and stated that my

summary of her comments were incorrect, and so I'm asking for clarity. Of the $50 million that were allocated for the surgical and diagnos tic backlog, how much of that money was used or allocated to the WRHA to address the surgeries being performed within the region where we see such a sig nificant decrease in surgeries being performed? Ms.

Gordon: I want to clarify for the member for Union Station that, again, the member began the questioning with a specific line item in the annual report for the WRHA and the question was–started out with why have surgeries decreased? * (15:50) The years that the member referenced were two years that were in the middle of a pandemic–I think possibly the second, third and fourth wave of the

October 3, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2847 pandemic–so I clarified by answering that there are times when individuals were redeployed from their surgery units to help out in our ICUs during the pandemic. And so, naturally, we saw a slowdown in surgeries, and there were times that non -emergent surgeries were not being carried out. So, I explained the reason for the decrease in surgeries in–during the pandemic. Now, we are here in Com mittee of Supply to consider the 2022- 2023 budget, Mr.

Chair, so I remi nd the member of that, and it also gives me an op portunity to talk about our government's commit ment under Budget 2022: $110 million to address the surgical and diag nostic backlog for a total of $160 million. Mr. Chair, just in terms of updated s urgeries, as of September 29th, there were 1,169 non- emergent surgeries completed for the week of September 19th to 25th at Winnipeg sites. This is 46 more surgeries than the number completed during a similar week in 2019, which would be September 23rd to 29th of that year, when 1,123 surgeries were completed.

So, the member can see that the surgeries are starting to increase–have started to increase now that all individuals have been returned to their surgical unit. And it also means that Winnipeg's surge ry pro- gram was operating at 104.1 per cent of pre-pandemic levels for that week. All emergent and urgent surgeries, including cardiac and cancer procedures continue, Mr. Chair, to be prioritized. Non-urgent surgeries are reviewed by physicians to prioritize patients who medically should not wait any longer for procedures to be performed.

And I want to highlight, as well, the number of emergent surgeries performed for the week, which remain steady; and there were 241 emergent or life- saving surgeries performed September 19th to 25th in Winnipeg, up 14 from the previous week and up 31 from a similar time period in 2019. And there were 259 surgical slates in Winnipeg the week of September 19th to 25th. This is two below pre - COVID norms, but this means sla tes were being scheduled at 99.2 per cent of pre -pandemic baseline standards in Winnipeg, Mr. Chair.

As a reminder, I also want the member to know that the number of surgeries performed during a slate– it will vary widely depending on the acuity of the patient and the complexity of the procedure. And I'll give you an example: an endoscopy will not take as long to perform as neurosurgery. So the time allotted for surgical slates in 2022 may vary from those performed pre-pandemic due the demand, resulting in fewer surgeries being performed. And, again, COVID has also resulted in patients waiting longer for procedures than they did in the past, causing them to be sicker, Mr. Chair.

This results in longer surgical and recovery times, which impacts the number of surgeries that can be performed during a slate. About 26 cardiac surgeries were performed the week of September 19th to 25th, which is up seven from the previous week; 24 surgeries were non- urgent, elective in nature, while two were emergent. There were 22 cardiac surgeries performed during a similar period in– Mr. Chairperson: The honour able minister's time has expired. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that breakdown of information.

I just–I will move on from this line of questioning because it's unfortunately not producing the informa- tion from the minister that I know Manitobans really need to hear at this time, especially as they still don't have access to a dashboard which would inform them, in terms of surgical waits. You know, ultimately, the whole narrative around the $50 million being announced re peatedly by this government was that it was going to address the backlog of surgical waits and diagnos tic test waits.

And we see plainly from the WRHA reporting that, unfortunately, hundreds–hundreds–of surgeries less were performed, and year over year have been performed. And so, you know, it's disappointing that the minister just won't simply answer my question and provide the clarity that I'm seeking in –on behalf of Manitobans. And I think, more im portantly, it's in credibly disappointing for Manitobans to know that despite the $50 million being announced time and time again, it hasn't, in fact, resulted in more surgeries being performed. In fact, we see a tremen dous amount less of surgeries being performed in the WRHA.

And every single one of those numbers represents a family and a Manitoban who's, you know, suffering and waiting in pain. So, I'll go back to my question around hospital beds. Certainly, I can appreciate the minister stated in

2848 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 3, 2022 terms of fluctuations in the health -care system. However, the minister is well aware that bed capacity–available beds in our health-care system, and the lack of available beds, is creating a nightmarish reality in our hospitals. Peopl e do not have access to beds; we have a staffing crisis that is contributing to challenges in terms of bed capacity. So, I suppose my question for the minister is, what is she doing to ensure that we are bolstering bed numbers in our public health- care system and when does she expect us to stop losing beds in our hospitals? Ms.

Gordon: I thank the member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) for the question. They know from having worked in the health system that beds require staff and –in order for them to be available to Manitobans. And I just want to put on the record that pre - pandemic, if we look at our ICU beds, the bed base was 72, and post-pandemic, we are at 108, Mr. Chair. And that means at HSC Winnipeg, there's 47 ICU beds; St. Boniface, 36, of which 20 are cardiac; Grace, 13; Brandon, 12. Again, the total is 108 plus two cardiac E1 beds at St. Boniface. * (16:00) But that was only possible, Mr.

Chair, because our government undertook a very aggressive training and–comprehensive training program to ensure that a total of 149 nurses in the last year have completed the 12-week critical-care orientation program, and 29 of those individuals graduated in May. Then, at the end of August, we saw 19 more nurses graduate from that same program, and mid - September 23 individuals had enrolled for the next program class starting on September 12th.

So our gov ernment recognizes –and I hope the member for Union Station is aware as well –that beds can be opened when we bring more training, more nurses, more al lied help, more doctors into the system, and that is why our gov ernment announced $19.5 million to add 259 nurse training seats, five post-secondary institutions as part of our larger plan to add close to 400 new nursing education seats. And I was pleased to join my colleague from immigration and advanced edu cation where we announced $30 million to add 28 additional beds to our intensive- care units, Mr. Chair.

So, once again, it requires nurses and that is why we are supporting hundreds of inter nationally educated nurse applicants to obtain their licensure and start practising in Manitoba. And each individual is eligible to receive $23,000 of financial aid, Mr. Chair–first time in the history of the province that that has been available. Another first, Mr. Chair, is the undergraduate nurse employees program.

So, last December, we saw 63 third- and fourth- year nursing students join our health-care teams to support the delivery of health services for Manitobans while gaining valuable paid experience in a clinical setting. So we are doing our part as a gov ernment re - cruiting, retaining, making available mentorship pro- grams. Establishing a prov incial float pool is in the works; incentives to encourage nurses to work more shifts per week. Th at is how we are able to increase our bed map, and it shows that our efforts are working, Mr.

Chair, because, as I mentioned, before the pandemic our ICU bed base was 72, and post - pandemic, with the training that our gov ernment has invested in, that number has increased to 108. So it's very im portant for Manitobans to know that we are taking the steps necessary to increase our bed base, to increase, not just here in Winnipeg, but across the entire province. Mr. Chair, last week I was up in Norway Ho use and had an opportunity to tour their health-care centre of excellence, and they shared with me that they would be increasing, when this new site opens, from four dialysis stations to eight.

So, again, increases are being seen across the province, and our government remains committed to working with all stake holders, Indigenous com mu- nities, all our RHAs, to increase our bed base so Manitobans receive the care they need. Mr. Chairperson: The honour able minister's time has expired. MLA Asagwa ra: I thank the minister for that response.

The minister acknowledged something that we are all very well aware of, and certainly Manitobans are well aware of, that, you know, while we see a loss of another 30 beds this year–a total loss of 154 since 2017 and '18–that we also have seen a mass, almost exodus, of the health-care professionals needed to staff those beds. And so while I can appreciate the minister listing off announcements that we've heard many times be- fore regarding what this gov ernment is doing to try and educate some more nurses, the minister has not provided any clarity as to how that will impact the fact

October 3, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2849 that we are actively losing beds in our hospital system, which, you know, the lack of beds in our health- care system right no w, today, is having a huge negative impact on the health outcomes of Manitobans. And when we have these committees and we have these con versations, it is so im portant that we talk about health outcomes, we talk about the real impacts of this gov ernment's decision making on Manitoba families. And so I would ask the minister to provide clarity.

She's listed off a lot of initiatives that she's saying her gov ernment is under taking, but when does the minister expect to stop losing hospital beds ? We've lost another 30 beds this year. That matters. That affects people. And so with all of these initiatives in mind, when does this minister expect to stop losing hospital beds? And this information really does matter for Manitoba families who depend on those beds. Mr. James Teitsma, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair Ms.

Gordon: I do want to put on the record and correct some information that the member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) has stated –that individuals are coming into the system and that is why we have seen the college of nursing add a third intake starting next year in May, because the dean of the college of nursing has stated very publicly that for every seat they receive four applications. * (16:10) So, nursing is a very rewarding and fulfilling career. We continue to see individuals coming into the health system. Mr. Chairperson in the Chair With regard to the bed map, or the bed base, this is very fluid, Mr.

Chair. It changes every year. Let's go back to 2007- 2008: there were 2, 488 beds. And today, '21 -22, there's 2,534. So this is not a static number. We also see some facilities are asking for changes to be made to the way their rooms are structured, so there may be multi patients in a room. And we've had locations request tha t they change –we–they change the configuration so that they can have behavioural beds. And in those situations, they may not want two, or three or four people in the same setting, so they change the bed base, which leads to better health out- comes for Manitobans.

So this is not a static number. We certainly want to provide facilities with the autonomy and the in de- pendence to make changes based on the popula tion that they are serving and the severity of the health con- ditions that they are experiencing. And we're –we have those con versations all the time. My colleague in the Min istry of Seniors and Long-Term Care will tell you that, while he has carried out consultations across this province for the seniors' strategy, that we're hearing changes–facilities are requesting changes to the way personal -care homes are built. They should be small houses, they're called.

So that will look very different in the future. We're not going to see our bed base remaining static. And with regard–specific rega rd to the WRHA figures, the explanation note No. 1, for example, states clearly that in 2020 -2021, beds included 30 temporary beds which were closed in August 2021. They were never meant to be permanent beds. The WRHA added those beds as a temporary measur e based on what was happening in the health system at that time.

And this is the in dependence and autonomy we want to provide to our facilities and our service delivery organizations to use the operational funding that's provided by our gov ernment t o make those decisions on the ground, to ensure Manitobans receive the care that they need. Those decisions are not being made here in the Legislative Building by politicians, they're being made by health system leaders.

And we are going to continue to support their efforts to provide Manitobans with the best care that they clinically and medically have deter mined that they need, and the types of beds that they need to provide those services, and how the beds will be structured and where they will be placed. And again, Mr. Chair, those are not decisions that are being made on Broadway, those are being made by system leaders at the bedside who deter mine, for example, like the WRHA has –and the member can read it there, it's note No. 1 –that 30 temporary beds, for example, were closed in 2021 by the region.

And those are temporary for reasons; I do not have that information handy. Mr. Chairperson: The honour able minister's time has expired. MLA Asagwara: Can the minister provide clarity around the surgical fund for this year? So, the fund for 2022-2023 has been spent–sorry, rather, how much of

2850 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 3, 2022 that fund has been spent to date? And how many ad - ditional surgeries over the previous year will that support? * (16:20) Ms. Gordon: I thank the member for the question. The second quarter results –actually, the second quarter just ended on September 30th, and so the second quarter results are currently not available. That's a major reporting, That won't be available for several weeks Mr. Chair. But the Diag nostic and Surgical Recovery Task Force, led by Dr. MacDonald and David Matear, they do provide regular reporting.

And I do also want to bring to the member's attention that the '21 -22 results are audited and how the funds are spent are audited, and ther e's been no previous concern. But the second quarter results are not available at this time, Mr. Chair. Thank you. MLA Asagwara: On–thank you, thank the minister for that response. I might go back to that, but I'd like to ask about a

summary on page 31 of the annual report. So, the pre- sentation of

summary accounting for Health: can the minister explain for us what the adjustments are on the consolidation line? And, again, that's on page 31. Ms. Gordon: I thank the member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) for the question. If we look at one specific line, funding to health authorities, under consolidation and other adjust - ments, the entry there is to avoid duplicating account- ing entries. So that amount is actually included in the other reporting entities column, so it's–so that that full amount is reflective of the SDO's actual results.

So the–it's backing out the entries that we have made so that we don't duplicate what the service delivery organization–Prairie Mountain, WRHA –the entries that they have included in their accounting. Thank you, Mr. Chair. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for her response. And I'm just wondering if she can provide for us what the current vacancy rate in her department is, and can she provide that vacancy rate by division? Thank you. * (16:30) Ms. Gordon: With–in response to the member's question, that granular detail we are not able to provide at that time.

So the specificity of the informa- tion, we–I will take that under advisement, Mr. Chair. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for taking that under advisement and I look forward to receiving that information and clarity. Can the minister provide the names of her political staff? Thank you. Ms. Gordon: I'm pleased to answer that question. It's Matthew LaPage –L-a-P-a-g-e; Vanessa Wiebe– W-i-e-b-e; Tyler Thomas –T-h-o-m-a-s; and Mathew Grivicic–G-r-i-v-i-c-i-c. Thank you, Mr. Chair. MLA Asagwara: Thank the minister for her response.

What is the current vacancy rate within Insured Benefits branch –sorry, within the Insured Benefits branch. So, obviously, that's the branch that deals with health cards. Thank you. Ms. Gordon: I would like to take that question under advisement and provide the member with an answer at a later date. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for offering to take it under ad visement, and I look forward to receiving that information as soon as it's available. Can the minister provide an explanati

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-4-67
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 4th hansardpdf 67.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	e98315a6965a1e096b416687a93c5927e955b869

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