Manitoba Hansard — 26 May 2015 (Sitting 36B, 40th Legislature, 4th Session)

40-4-36b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session - Fortieth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker Vol. LXVII No. 36B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, May 26, 2015 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James, Hon. Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BJORNSON, Peter Gimli NDP BLADY, Sharon, Hon. Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna, Hon. Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne, Hon. St. James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Greg, Hon.

Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon.

Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MELNICK, Christine Riel NDP MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Thomas, Hon. Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa Seine River NDP PALLISTER, Brian Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder, Hon. The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELBY, Erin Southdale NDP SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie, Hon. Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC

1117 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, May 26, 2015 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 210–The Residential Tenancies Amendment Act Mr. Jim Rondeau (Assiniboia): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the member from Minto, that Bill 210, The Residential Tenancies Amendment Act, now be read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Rondeau: This bill requires landlords to use energy-efficient appliances when they replace them in residential dwellings. Mr.

Speaker, often the renter must pay high utility bills for using non- energy- efficient appliances. Mr. Speaker, the difference in price between energy-efficient appl iances and non-energy-efficient appliances has narrowed over the years to the point where the price difference is usually less than $100. The return on investment of this type of appliance can often be recovered in less than one -year time period. It makes sense economically and environmentally. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Any further introduction of bills? PETITIONS Mr.

Speaker: Seeing none, we'll move on to petitions. Provincial Trunk Highway 206 and Cedar Avenue in Oakbank–Pedestrian Safety Mr. Ron Schuler (St. Paul): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Every day, hundr eds of Manitoba children walk to school in Oakbank and must cross PTH 206 at the intersection with Cedar Avenue.

(2) There have been many dangerous incidents where drivers use the right shoulder to pass vehicles that have stopped at the traffic light waiting to turn left at this intersection.

(3) Law enforcement officials have identified this intersection as a hot spot of concern for the safety of schoolchildren, drivers and emergency responders. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge that the provincial government improve the safety at the pedestrian corridor at the intersection of PTH 206 and Cedar Avenue in Oakbank by considering such steps as highlighting pavement markings to better indicate the location of the shoulders and crosswalk, as well as installing a lighted crosswalk structure. This is signed by D. Block, A. Kreutz, A.

Every and many, many other fine Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: In keeping with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to have been received by the House. Beausejour District Hospital– Weekend and Holiday Physician Availability Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): I wish to present the following petitio n to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The Beausejour District Hospital is a 30 -bed, acute-care facility that serves the communities of Beausejour and Brokenhead.

(2) The hospital and the primary-care centre have h ad no doctor available on weekends and holidays for many months, jeopardizing the health and livelihoods of those in the Interlake -Eastern Regional Health Authority region.

(3) During the 2011 election, the provincial government promised to provide every M anitoban with access to a family doctor by 2015.

1118 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2015

(4) This promise is far from being realized, and Manitobans are witnessing many emergency rooms limiting services or closing temporarily, with the majority of these reductions taking place in rural Manitoba.

(5) According to the Health Council of Canada, only 25 per cent of doctors in Manitoba reported that their patients had access to care on evenings and weekends. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government and the Minister of Health to ensure that the Beausejour District Hospital and primary -care centre have a primary-care physician available on weekends and holidays to better provide area reside nts with this essential service. This petition is signed by F . Reis, C. Reis, P. Oneschuk and many, many more fine Manitobans.

Cottage Fees and Rents– Transparency and Accountability Mr. Cliff Cullen ( Spruce Woods): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition: The provincial government has treated Manitoba cottagers with disrespect by increasing cottage fees and rents. Manitoba cottagers are willing to pay their fair share, but the provincial government has arbitrarily decided to raise cottage fees and rents by as much as 750 per cent without any clear indication that the money will be used for improved amenities or services for cottagers.

Under sections 18(3) and 20 of The Provincial Parks Act, the financial estimates and statemen ts of each park district are to be prepared and maintained for a review by any owner or occupier in a park district. The member from Flin Flon was quoted in Hansard on March 27, 2014, suggesting that cottages be removed from provincial parks and be made part of a municipality.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to honour the requirements found in The Provincial Parks Act and to consider working with Manitoba cottagers to ensure transparency and accountability when it comes to their service fees and rents. This petition is signed by K. Taft, D. Coleman, D. Biles and many other fine Manitobans. Minnesota-Manitoba Transmission Line Route–Information Request Mr. Dennis Smook (La Verendrye) : I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The Minnesota-Manitoba transmission line is a 500- kilovolt alternating -current transmission line set to be located in southeaste rn Manitoba that will cross into the US border south of Piney, Manitoba.

(2) The line has an in -service date of 2020 and will run approximately 150 kilometres with tower heights expected to reach between 40 to 60 metres and be located every four, five hundred metres.

(3) The preferred route designated for the line will see the hydro towers come in close proximity to the community of La Broquerie and many other communities in Manitoba's southeast rather than an alternate route that was also considered.

(4) The alternate route would have seen the line run further east, avoid densely populated areas and eventually terminate at the same spot at the US border.

(5) The Progressive Conservative caucus has repeatedly asked for information about the routing of the line and its proximity to densely populated areas and has yet to receive any response.

(6) Landowners all across Manitoba are concerned about the impact hydro line routing could have on land values. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro to immediately provide a written explanation to all members of the Legislative Assembly regarding white –what criteria were used and the reasons for selecting the preferred routing for the Minnesota-Manitoba transmission line, including whether or not this routing represents the least

May 26, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1119 intrusive option to residents of Taché, Springfield, Ste. Anne, Stuartburn, Piney and La Broquerie. This petition is signed by M. Giesbrecht, G. Watson, T. Plett and many more fine Manitobans. Province-Wide Long-Term Care– Review Need and Increase Spaces Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: There are currently 125 licensed personal -care homes, PCHs, across Manitoba, consisting of less than 10,000 beds.

All trends point to an increasingly ag - ing population who will require additional personal-care-home facilities. By some estimates, Manitoba will require an increase of more than 5,100 personal-care-home beds by 2036. The number of Manitobans with Alzheimer 's disease or another dementia -related illness who will require personal -care-home services are steadily increasing and are threatening to double within the current generation.

The last personal -care-home review in many areas, including the Swan River Valley area currently under administration of the Prairie Mountain regional health authority, was conducted in 2008. Average occupancy rates for personal -care homes across the province are exceeding 97 per cent, with some regions, such as Swan River Valley, witnessing 100 per cent occupancy rates. These high occupancy rates are creating the conditions where many individuals requiring long-term care are being displaced far away from their families and their home community.

We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To urge the provincial government to consider immediately enacting a provin ce-wide review of the long-term-care needs of residents of Manitoba. And to urge the provincial government to recognize the stresses placed upon the health- care system by the current and continuous aging population and consider increasing the availability of long-term-care spaces, PCH beds, in communiti es across the province. * (13:40) And this is signed by E. Webb, M. Bird, A. Friesen and many others. Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker.

I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And this is the background to this petition:

(1) There are currently 125 licensed personal-care homes, PCHs, across Manitoba, consisting of less than 10,000 beds.

(2) All trends point to an increasingly ag- ing population who will require additional personal-care-home facilities.

(3) By some estimates, Manitoba will require an increase of more than 5,100 personal-care-home beds by 2036.

(4) The number of Manitobans with Alzheimer's disease or other dementia -related illnesses who will require persona l-care-home services are steadily increasing and are threatening to double within the current generation.

(5) The last personal -care-home review in many areas, including the Swan River Valley area, currently under administration of the Prairie Mountain regional health authority, was conducted in 2008.

(6) Average occupancy rates for personal -care homes across the province are exceeding 97 per cent, while some regions, such as Swan River Valley, witnessing 100 per cent occupancy rates.

(7) These high occupancy rates are creating the conditions where many individuals requiring long- term care are being displaced far away from their families and home communities. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to consider immediately enacting a provin ce-wide review of the long- term-care needs of residents of Manitoba.

1120 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2015 And (2) t o urge the provincial government to recognize the stresses placed upon the health-care system by the current and continuous aging populat ion and consider increasing the availability of long -term-care spaces, PCH beds, in communities across the province. And this petition is signed by K. Walsh, K. Lylyk and S. Jersah and many, many more fine Manitobans. Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

And the background for this petition is as follows: There are currently 12 5 licensed personal -care homes across Manitoba, consisting of less than 10,000 beds.

(2) All points–or all trends point to an increasingly aging population which will require additional personal-care-home facilities.

(3) By some estimates, Manitoba will require an increase of more than 5,100 personal-care-home beds by 2036.

(4) The number of Manitobans with Alzheimer's disease or other dementia -related illnesses will–who will require personal-care-home services are steadily increasing, are threatening to double within the current generation.

(5) The last personal -care-home review in many areas, including the Swan River Valley area currently under administration by Prairie Mountain regional health authority, was conducted in 2008.

(6) Average occupancy rates for personal -care homes across the province are exceeding 97 per cent, with some regions, such as Swan River Valley, witnessing 100 per cent occupancy rates.

(7) These high occupancy rates are creating the conditions where many individuals requiring long- term care are being d isplaced far away from the ir families and home community. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to consider immediately enacting a province- wide review of the long- term-care needs of residents of Manitoba. And (2) to urge the provincial government to recognize the stresses placed upon the health- care system by the current and continually aging population and consider increasing the availability of long-term-care spaces in communities across the province. This petition's signed by W. Ross, L. Hart and G. Martin and many, many more fine Manitobans. Mr. Stuart Briese (Agassiz): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

And the background to this petition is as follows: There are currently 125 licensed personal -care homes, PCHs, across Manitoba, consisting of less than 10,000 beds. All trends point to an increasingly ag - ing population who will require additional personal-care-home facilities. By some estimates, Ma nitoba will require an increase of more than 5,100 personal-care-home beds by 2036. The number of Manitobans with Alzheimer 's disease or another dementia-related illness who will require personal -care services –care-home services are steadily increasing and are threatening to double within the current generation.

The last personal -care-home review in many areas, including the Swan River Valley area currently under the administration of the Prairie Mountain regional health authority, was conducted in 2008. Average occupancy rates for personal -care homes across the province are exceeding 97 per cent, with some regions, such as Swan River Valley, witnessing 100 per cent occupancy rates. These higher–high occupancy rates are creating the conditions where many individuals requiring long-term care are being displaced far away from their families and home community.

We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To urge the provincial government to consider immediately enacting a provin ce-wide review of the long-term-care needs of residents of Manitoba.

May 26, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1121 And t o urge the provincial government to recognize the stresses placed upon the health- care system by the current and continuous aging population and consider increasing the availability of long-term-care spaces, PCH beds, in communities across the province. This petition i s signed by D. Kereluik, G. Kereluik, T. Watts and many, many other fine Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: Committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Mohinder Saran (Minister of Housing and Community Development ): Mr.

Speaker, I am pleased to table the supplemental information for Legislative review for the Department of Housing and Community Development for 2015-16. Mr. Speaker: Any further tabling of reports? Seeing none, ministerial statements? Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I have a number of guests to introduce. Seated in our public gallery we have with us this afternoon Lisa Carlson, a teacher at Elm Creek collegiate, and two law students, who are the guests of the honourable member for Midland (Mr. Pedersen).

And also seated in the public gallery we have with us this afternoon, from Kelvin High School we have 25 grade 9 students under the direction of Mr . Gerry Urbanovich. This group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard). And also seated in the public gallery we have with us today Patrick Betz, principal of –for Sansome School, who is a guest of the hono urable Minister of Health (Ms. Blady). On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome all of you here this afternoon. ORAL QUESTIONS Former NDP Political Staff Severance Package Costs Mr.

Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, last week we had asked some questions of the Premier in respect of seven former staff members who had been incented to leave by the Premier and had –many of them had gone elsewhere to find work, at great expense to Manitoba taxpayers, approximately two thi rds of a million dollars and counting. I asked the Premier if he anticipated there would be more such backroom, sweetheart deals made using Manitoba taxpayers' money, and he said no.

Yesterday we learned, however, that there were three more staff who were making their way down the Trans-Canada or Yellowhead routes to points west. And so I have to ask the Premier at this point: We were at two thirds of a million or about $670,000. What is the running total now on severance payments that the government is making to former friends of the Premier? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, again, we have an example of the double standard here.

We have seen that during the time when the member opposite was in government, their severance payments, their 'seven ce' payments, were very close in the amount for seven key staff members that our severance payments were, a situation where they made out severance payments and then they oppose them. The member himself has received nearly $100,000 in severance payments. W hen a person voluntarily decides to move to another job, there is no severance involved, and that's the general policy in the case that we've talked about here. The member is practising a double standard.

He doesn't want to acknowledge that he waited 16 years to accept that there was very significant severance payments during the time that they were in office. We made that information to the public available as soon as possible. NDP Leadership Campaign Support Staff Contracts Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): The Premier speaks of transparency and then hides. And he has not given us the information that Manitobans deserve to know in respect of the severance.

Now, if these people did not receive severance, this is abject proof that the Premier needed not incent the other seven to go and leave the province. And, in fact, I would ask the Premier, in respect of Heather Grant-Jury–Heather Grant -Jury is a person who the Premier hired from the United Food and Commercial Workers union. That's the union, you may recall, Mr. Speaker, that was jumping up and down when Gary Doer became leader, saying, the machine works, the

1122 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2015 machine works. Well, apparently, it worked for the Premier. But it isn't working for Manitobans. Ms. Grant -Jury was hire d to a five -month contract, six figures. That coincided almost exactly with the leadership campaign that he ran out of his office. * (13:50) Now, isn't this an obvious case of using the office of the Premier as a campaign headquarters? And if it was such , then why did the Premier use taxpayers' money for his personal benefit and for his own leadership campaign? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, the member opposite's on the record as saying, I'm not talking about individual staffers with you guys and I never will. So here we have another example of the double standard. The member doesn't want to talk about staff members that have left his employ, even if they were employed by caucus. If we hire somebody in this office on a secondment arrangement, we've made that contract available to the public. We've disclosed it, and everybody that comes here works on the job and they also can engage in other activities in their own time, just like members opposite did. But here's the difference.

The member opp osite wants to talk about individuals except when it comes to his own individuals, his own former employees. And that's just another example of what we see from the member opposite: a continuous double standard, one set of rules for him and the way he oper ates, a different set of rules for everybody else. That level of hypocrisy is unacceptable. Mr. Pallister: To assuage the Premier's concerns, I assure him that no one in my office or in the PC organization on this side of the House was engaged in helping me in my leadership campaign. I'm asking him about his. Mr.

Speaker, no one held the position in his office before Heather Grant -Jury was hired by him. There was no one in that position. There is no one in that position today. So the only time that he nee ded Heather Grant-Jury to work in his office was when he was running, out of his office, to be the leader of the New Democratic Party. That's the only time. Now, the MLA for Thompson did not have a taxpayer-paid assistant at his side throughout the campaign. The MLA for Seine River did not have a taxpayer-paid assistant working for her campaign. Would the Premier admit today in this House that what he did with Ms.

Heather Grant -Jury gave him an unfair advantage in the leadership race, and wasn't he cheating? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, here we have another underlined example of the double standard that the member opposite practises. He won't talk about any of his staff. He won't talk about a staff member that blogged that they supported an inquiry into missing and murdered Aboriginal women and suddenly found themselves unemployed for having an opinion, for having an opinion in a country where freedom of expression is a constitutional right, and suddenly, then, they lose their job.

He won't talk about that, but he wants to vilify other people that offer themselves for public service at a time when there was a need for people to come in and provide stability as we move forward to do the job of serving the people of Manitoba every single day when we come to work. That's what we do. The member opposite focuses on a double-standard approach. He doesn't deal with the big policy issues of the day. We've never had a question from him on a major policy issue of the day, Mr. Speaker. Maybe he could start by addressing what is his program for the future of Manitoba. We've never seen that. Mr.

Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Mr. Pallister: I notice the Premier asking a lot of questions, and I appreciate him using thi s time to prepare to do that in the future too.

Now, given the razor -thin majority that the Premier won at the NDP leadership convention, and given the fact that the bosses at UFCW were given 160 delegates to influence the outcome of the leadership race, and given the secondment of his close associate from UFCW into his office and her close connections therein, and giving the fact that that appointment period coincided exactly with his leadership campaign: Would the MLA for St.

Boniface not agree that payi ng her from his campaign funds rather than asking the people of Manitoba to assist him in his leadership bid would have been the fair and right thing to do? Mr. Selinger: So, Mr. Speaker, again, double-standard approach.

May 26, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1123 When the member was a Member of Parliament, he was touring Manitoba on a listening tour, while a Member of Parliament, to test the waters whether he should run for the leadership of the provincial party. And while he was doing that, he had an assistant travelling with him. And when he wa s challenged on this, he flatly refused to acknowledge that he was using public resources to test the waters for his own leadership.

We still haven't seen an apology from him for that abuse of public taxpayers' money, another classic example of how the m ember practises a double standard: one set of rules for him, a different set of rules for everybody else. If he practised what he preached, he would've resigned. Mr. Pallister: He's losing so many spinners he has to repeat the same spin five times in a ro w. Mr. Speaker, he needs more spinners on his staff. The Globe and Mail called the Premier's attempt to hang on to the leadership while remaining premier a, quote, abject farce.

Elite members of his party said that the Premier had stopped listening. The rebel five said the Premier's priorities had been moved ahead of those of Manitobans, and all of them seemed to have been right in their observations. Instead of tired talking points, maybe the Premier needs to acknowledge that not everyone else is wrong w hen they ask him to come clean and be honest and be straightforward about the information that Manitobans deserve to have about how their tax dollars are being wasted by him for his benefit and for no one else's.

Now, would the Premier admit that he used the taxpayers' dollars for his leadership campaign, do the right thing and let his campaign reimburse the money that Manitobans have had stolen from them for his benefit? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, a prominent loc al broadcaster had a quote about the Leader of the Opposition prior to taking on that role: If the member from Fort Whyte is lucky, those who vote will forget how the member from Fort Whyte manipulated voters and sponged off the taxpayers. That's a quote from a local prominent broadcaster in Manitoba. Mr.

Speaker, it was clearly the member opposite that was caught using his salary and the resources of an assistant to test the waters for a run at the provincial leadership just days after he was re- elected to the House of Commons, and did he ever apologize to the public for that? No, he did not. Did he ever acknowledge that there was something wrong? No, he did not. Double standard, Mr. Speaker, one set of rules only for him, different set of rules for eve rybody else, hypocrisy in action. Mr. Pallister: Hypocrisy personified.

Obviously these questions have touched a nerve–obviously these questions have touched a nerve. The questions involved asking the Premier to come clean about the use of taxpayers' dollars to pay excessive severance to former friends who he promised would not lose their jobs.

These questions centre around his use of taxpayers' dollars to employ good friends from the UFCW in his office for the precise period he was running for the leadership of his own party, and clearly these questions centre on the nature of the fairness of his treatment and use of those people in contrast to the resources that were available to his colleagues in Thompson and Seine River. Now, if he gained an unf air advantage, Mr. Speaker, from the use of taxpayers' dollars in his office, he should address the issue head- on, and I've given him ample opportunity to do that today.

His failure to do so tells me that he knows he cheated. Will he admit today that he c heated so he could sit in that chair and pretend to be the Premier of Manitoba for a little longer? Mr. Selinger: We canvassed all of these questions yesterday and I gave the member very thorough answers. Now, let's talk about his behaviour, Mr. Speaker. Within days of being re -elected in 2006, he was touring the province testing the waters to run for a provincial leadership race. He was considering resigning from his Member of Parliament seat within a month of being re-elected in 2006.

A by-election at the federal level can cost up to $900,000. He was prepared to incur an expense of $900,000 so he could run for the leader of the provincial Progressive Conservative Party just days after being elected and using government resources while he did that. That is a classic example of the abuse of his resources and his role as a recently re -elected Member of Parliament. That is a classic example of a double standard, that he has one set of rules for himself, a different set of rules for everybody else. That is hypocrisy in action. * (14:00)

1124 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2015 Manitoba Hydro Bipole III Costs Application for Rate Increase Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): This morning at a breakfast speech to the members of the Manitoba chamber, the Premier again repeated an untruth about Bipole III line. The Premier said, and I quote: The Bipole III line won't cost Manitobans a dime. It will pay for–by export sales. It's like buying a house and renting it out. End of quote. That's not what Hydro says in their rate application.

They say they need higher rates because of increased borrowing requirements and other financial costs to build Keeyask and Bipole III. I ask the Premier: Who is misleading Manitobans? Is it Hydro in their rate application or is it the Premier of this province? Hon. Greg Se linger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, it was–I was very pleased to speak to the Manitoba Chambers of Commerce this morning because the story they heard was a story they understand. The Manitoba economy is generating thousands of jobs. The Manitoba economy is one of the fastest growing economies in the country.

The Manitoba economy is seeing wage increases for the working people of Manitoba, $40 a week on average, over $2,000 a year. And, Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition has said he would refuse to build hydro for exports. That's when the bill goes up. Hydro's export revenues over the next 30 years are expected to be in the order of $29 billion. That will pay down the cost of new generation and new transmission.

And when export revenues come to Manitoba and lower the cost for new transmission and new generation, that keeps the rates low for Manitobans, among the lowest rates in North America, something the members opposite are in complete denial about. Mr. Eichler: This is the same First Minister that went door to door in the last election, said that it was nonsense to raise the PST, and he has no credibility at all, absolutely none. Mr.

Speaker, on September 24th, testifying before the committee of this House, Scott Thomson, the CEO of Manitoba Hydro, said, and I quote: Manitoba ratepayers will pay for Bipole III just like they pay for all their assets that are installed to serve their needs. End of quote. That's not what every member of the NDP said in the last election in the mail. And I'll table this report once again for the members opposite that says bipole will not cost taxpayers a single cent. Manitobans deserve, who will be –who is misleading this House, Mr. Speaker? Is it the CEO of Manitoba Hydro or it is this government? Mr.

Selinger: Mr. Sp eaker, the short answer is neither. The story is very clear. When new assets are brought on, Manitoba Hydro makes applications to ensure those 'ats' are properly financed. They also have contracted for export sales outside of Manitoba. They make it very clear that those export sales reduce the costs of new generation, they reduce the cost of transmission, transmission which ensures the reliability of electricity to the Manitoba economy, a $66-billion economy. The lights go out for a week in Manitoba, that can cost over $1 billion.

Members opposite had an opportunity to build additional reliable transmission in Manitoba, and they decided to ignore it. They were so busy privatizing the telephone system, they neglected to look after the hydroelectric system. We know we need that additional transmission for reliability. We know that we have export sales. Those export sales will keep the cost of Manitoba Hydro among the lowest rates in North America. Mr. Eichler: Last time I checked, Manitoba Hydro belongs to the people, not this government. Six compound rate increases –[interjection] Maybe they should listen, Mr. Speaker.

I'll give them a chance to get it right. Six compound rate increases since this First Minister has been in office, and now they're asking for a seventh. Simple question, Mr. Speaker. The CEO of Manitoba Hydro says we'll pay for Bipole III just like they pay for all other Hydro assets. The Premier said it won't cost taxpayers a single cent. Manitobans deserve, who is lying? Is it the CEO of Hydro or is it the member from St. Boniface? The member should maybe tell us– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. Order, please.

I think I've been way too lenient this question period, and I'm going to have to tighten up quite a bit here.

May 26, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1125 The honourable member from Lakeside just used the word lying in reference to a member of this Assembly, and I've been very lenient with the allowance that I have had here in this question period for the language that's been chosen, very, very, very close to the line with respect to unparliamentary language, and I'm going to tighten up right now. I'm going to ask the honourable member for Lakeside to withdraw the word lie that he just put on the record and to make sure that that is very clear and unequivocal. So I'm going to ask the honourable member for Lakeside.

Mr. Eichler: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I did not say lie, I said lying, but I do withdraw. Mr. Speaker: I thank the honourable member for Lakeside. Now, the honourable First Minister, to proceed with the answer, please. Mr. Selinger: I appreciate the member from Lakeside asking us to remember who owns Manitoba Hydro. The people of Manitoba ow n Manitoba Hydro, Mr. Speaker. The people of Manitoba own Manitoba Hydro, and I only say –and we will keep it that way, not the members opposite. So I say to the member, I say to the Leader of the Opposition, why did he forget that when he sold off the telephone system?

That was owned by the people of Manitoba. We had among the lowest rates in Canada. Now we have among the highest rates in Canada. They forget, double standard all over again. When they're in government they think they can do what they want a nd pull the wool over the eyes of Manitobans. We will protect Manitoba Hydro. We will keep the lowest rates in North America, and the member opposite is waiting for his chance to privatize it and we know that. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order. The honourable member for Charleswood has the floor.

Paramedic Self-Regulation Release of Advisory Council Report Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, self -regulation is about better patient care and improved patient safety. Yesterday the Minister of Health seemed to agree when she said, and I quote, "self-regulation can provide a wonderful place for the–ensuring the safety for all Manitobans." End quote. Her actions speak otherwise. Can the Minister of Health tell us: Why, then, did she sit on the advisory council report on paramedic self -regulation for three months before making it public? Hon.

Sharon Blady (Minister of Health): I'd like to thank the member for the question. And, as we all know, that this report is public. It was made public not too long ago. And I can assure all members of this Chamber that when it was received on December 30th, the very–the letter itself mentions that the council looks forward to meeting w ith me, as the minister, to discuss the report and its recommendations. The scheduling of both a very busy council and myself, and the questions that we both had, meant that the meeting happened as soon as possible in March and the report was released right afterwards. Mrs.

Driedger: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health received the report in December. She sat on it until March. Perhaps she was too busy securing support for this Premier (Mr. Selinger) who is trying to hang on to his job instead of having la ser-like focus on doing her own job, and that is improving patient care and patient safety. So I'll ask the Minister of Health again: Why did she sit on this report for three months? She had an option. She could have made the report public much sooner. S he chose not to. Why did she sit on that report? It's about patient safety and better patient care.

Why did she sit on it for three months? Ms. Blady: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to again thank the member for the question and reiterate that this is the first rep ort ever to be drafted by the health professions advisory committee, and it is important that we get it right. The process, I admit, has been quite long, but we do not want to rush it without a full understanding of the council's recommendation. I wanted to make sure that I was able to discuss, as they had desired to discuss, with them all of the recommendations and the implications. So when they submitted their report, they asked to meet with me.

That meeting took place as soon as everyone's schedules al igned and, again, as we committed to MGEU and to PAM, the report has now been made public.

1126 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2015 And I'd like to remind folks that HPAC is an independent body. The report they submitted has not changed in any way, and we respect the work that they and the para medics do in making that application and the work that they do in the front lines of health care. Consultation Process Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, this Minister of Health had plenty of time to make that report public. She chose not to. Yesterday the min ister refused to answer the question as to when further consultations will begin regarding self-regulation of paramedics.

We'd like to ask today if she will commit that these consultations will start before the summer months, that she will not stall and sit on this issue any longer. Will she commit to that today? Ms. Blady: As usual, a day late and a dollar short. HPAC is already working with PAM, and I understand PAM's position and why they have asked HPAC and PAM to work together in the public interest. What I can't understand is why the Opposition Leader and members opposite would seek to involve themselves in what should be a non-partisan, non- political process.

Members opposite have always treated this as a political football, and that is inappropriate and it also raises real concerns as to how they would treat any number of issues that require the govern ment to act in public interest. * (14:10) Flooding Case Concern Gypsumville Businesses Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): Mr. Speaker, last August the Minister of Agriculture wrote to Mr. Chris Rawluk from Gypsumville and advised him that the NDP government w ould provide a low - interest loan to the Rawluk store which would help get them through the ongoing impact resulting from the removal of flood victims on Lake St.

Martin and Lake Manitoba. Then the minister changed his mind and decided no assistance was available. Mr. Speaker, why would the Minister of Agriculture send this letter to the Rawluks when he had no intention of providing assistance in the first place? Hon. Ron Kostyshyn (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development): We understand the challenges that Mr. Rawluk faced during the flood events, and actually when the 2011, 2012 continued to hamper all people associated in the whole watershed that started from the Alberta boundaries and carries into the province of Manitoba.

We know the importance of working together with the federal government. And when we talked about the DFA programs and emergency, we continue to continue to talk about the opportunities to work with individuals. We've made some successes with individuals about Lake Mani toba. The agriculture industry definitely suffered. So did the Aboriginals' areas also suffered because of the flood. And we continue to work with individuals of the importance that historical events have provided. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Pedersen: This is just more mismanagement and false statements from this NDP government, Mr. Speaker.

Rawluk fine foods and True Value Hardware in Gypsumville is –has suffered tremendous financial losses since 2011 through no fault of their own. With three of the f our First Nations still not back in their home communities, it has now come to the point where the Rawluks may have to close their store, which has been in operation since 1953. Why would the Minister of Agriculture send a letter offering assistance and t hen turn around and tell the Rawluks no assistance is available? Mr. Kostyshyn : Let me repeat the answer to the previous question as well.

We continue to work with the federal government when we have unusual flood events that continue to work with. We continue to work with the –Mr. Rawluk. We had offered opportunities of –through–in–loan opportunities through various organizations. But I also respect the privacy of the member that's being discussed, that we need to consider of his due diligence, and we wil l continue to work with the individual. We have offered some choices, but unfortunately, at this point in time, no further discussion takes place. I also respect Mr. Rawluk's privacy, and I respect that from the member opposite as well.

Thank you so much.

May 26, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1127 Mr. Pedersen: The only thing continuing is the stalling of this government. Four years after the flood event, 2,000 people still out of their homes, Rawluk fine foods' customer base destroyed due to NDP mismanagement. Mr. Chris Rawluk is up in the gallery today. Will the Minister of Agriculture agree to meet with the Rawluks today? Mr. Kostyshyn: To the last question, yes, I would gladly meet with Mr. Rawluk and whoever it is.

But I also want to also emphasize what the Province has done since we have been faced with the challenge, the 2011 flood, and these are strictly provincial dollars, Mr.

Speaker, that we've been involved in for a lot of years: the Lake Manitoba emergency flood protection program; the Lake Manitoba flood assistance program for cottage owners; for the Lake Manitoba Pasture Flooding Assistance program; also the Greenfeed Assistance Program; the 2011 spring blizzard livestock mortality program; the Shoal Lakes Agricultural Flooding Assistance Program; excess moisture program; and als o the Dauphin River Flood Assistance Program. And also, let's be respectable that the federal minister said, we do not pay for flood events beyond one year– Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

The honourable minister's time on this question has elapsed. Lake Manitoba Flood Victims Housing Recovery Timeline Mr. Stuart Briese (Agassiz): And people are still out of their homes. Four years ago Slave Lake had a devastating fire; 374 homes and many businesses were lost. There was over $1 billion in damages. Today S lave Lake is 90 per cent recovered. Mitigation's in place. People are back in their homes and businesses. Four years ago, Lake Manitoba and St. Martin were artificially flooded. Today 2,000 people remain homeless.

Why has this NDP government broke its promises and failed so miserably at addressing the victims left homeless by the 2011 flood? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures): Well, Mr. Speaker, not a day goes by in which work isn't put in place to provide a long- term historical resettlement for the communities involved. I want to note, Mr. Speaker, it's very important to put on the record the work that our Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Robinson) has done in working with the chiefs in that area, working with the federal government.

And let's understand why people are still away from home, and that is because they literally had nowhere to go back home to, and not just because of impacts of 2011 and 2014 but because of chronic problems, Mr. Speaker, because of housing conditions, high water tables that go back decades, and that's because there never was an outlet from Lake St. Martin. And by the way, Mr. Speaker, this government built the emergency outlet and we're going to build the permanent outlet. That is the comprehensive plan for the people around that area. We'll get people back home and get the flood protection they need. Mr.

Briese: Mr. Speaker, in 2013 the city of Calgary had a devastating flood. Seventy -five thousand people were displaced. Damages were over $5 billion. Today they are totally recovered. Businesses are open. People are back in their homes. Mr. Speaker, f our years after the 2011 flood, 2,000 Manitobans remain homeless. Why has this NDP gover nment so badly mismanaged the 2011 flood file? Mr. Ashton : I'm very surprised that the member opposite would use Calgary as a comparison to Manitoba. [interjection] Well, why not? Because Calgary has one -in-25-year flood protection.

In our capital city, o ur main city, in Winnipeg, we have one-in-700-year flood protection. Mr. Speaker, they had flooding in 2005. They commissioned a report. They didn't even release it publicly until just a couple of years ago, and they have not yet acted on that. We have put in place $1 billion in investment in flood protection. And, Mr. Speaker, I'm not going to pick on Calgary, because I get the feeling over the next few years things are going to get better there too, probably because they're going to follow the Manitoba model.

1128 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2015 Mr. Briese: I would remind the minister that the people around Lake Manitoba apparently have two - and four-year flood protection. In 2013 High River suffered major flooding, total evacuation, hundreds of millions of dollars in damage. Today the y are close to full recovery. People are back in their community. In Manitoba 2,000 people remain homeless four years after the Lake Manitoba-Lake St. Martin flood. My question is simple: When can the 2011 flood victims expect to be back in their homes? Mr. Ashton : Well, Mr.

Speaker, again, I think the member's missed the point. He says, when are they going to be back in their homes. We're building new homes in co -operation with the First Nations in higher ground in a flood-protected area, again, under the leadership of the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Robinson). We're also building not just the emergency protection with Lake St. Martin but also permanent flood protection. So, Mr.

Speaker, I want to say to the member opposite, we're following the Manitoba model, which is after a major flood what you do is you sit down and you work in partnership, in this case, with the First Nations and with the federal government. The reality is over the next period of time on Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin, our flood protection won't be in–one-in-25-years like it is in Calgary. It's going to be up to one -in-200-year flood protection, one of the highest standards in the country. That's the Manitoba model. Air Ambulance Service Request for Proposals Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, it was obvious in the Premier's answers to my questions yesterday that he's not up to date on what's happening in the emergency medical system in Manitoba. I asked about the basic air ambulance servi ce, a fixed-wing system which involves numerous companies licensed to provide this service, including Perimeter Aviation, Keewatin Air, Sky North Air, Missinippi Airways, Fast Air and SkyMedical. In order to ensure a more accountable, standardized quality service, the EMS report recommended immediate action to include a request for proposals to be issued for the delivery of basic air ambulance services.

It's now been more than two years. Why has there yet been no request for proposals put out? Hon. Gr eg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the EMS review was a very important process that we went through to improve emergency services in Manitoba, and the member will recall yesterday that many of those recommendations have already been implemented. We have advanced paramedic training in place now. We're moving forward on that. We've made very significant investments in communications equipment and dispatching facilities in Manitoba.

We've made very significant investments in additional paramedics, quite frankly, 1,500 in the province of Manitoba, 290 when we came into office, an increase of over 500 per cent. * (14:20) We've got the STARS air helicopter system that's available since 2009 in Manitoba, and the fixed-wing service is an important servic e and it needs to be in place. We have some of our own internal capacity for fixed -wing service for ambulance, including a couple of refurbished jets that are available in Manitoba. All of these resources are part of our total package of providing servi ces to people, Mr.

Speaker, and we will continue to find ways to improve services to Manitobans regardless of where they live in the province. Rural Paramedic Services Wages and Working Conditions Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): In fact, relatively few of the recommendations have been implemented; at best, very few. Mr. Speaker, the Premier is not fully aware of the extreme rural -urban divide that he and the Minister of Health (Ms. Blady) have created within the paramedics' pay and working conditions. Rural paramedics have an average of 25 per cent lower wages than those in the city of Winnipeg.

The result of this large difference in pay scale is that there are 116 advanced -care paramedics in Winnipeg and only six in rural Manitoba, as very few advanced-care paramedics will work for the low and inequitable wages in rural areas.

May 26, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1129 Why has the Premier allowed such a large rural - urban divide to happen on his watch? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, we've made dramatic improvements in paramedic s ervice in rural Manitoba. When we first came into office, 80 per cent –80 per cent –of the service was done by volunteers. Many excellent people volunteered their time to do that. There are now –it has now gone the reverse.

The overwhelming amount of service is provided by full -time, professionally trained paramedics in Manitoba, with modern equipment, modern ambulances, GPS technology and a modern dispatch system that operates out of Brandon, and they are supported by air helicopter service as well as air service. So we will move forward on all these recommendations that have been put forward. [interjection] We are moving on it right now, to answer the question for the member from Charleswood. We are making progress every single day.

And I can only remind all the members opposite, including the member from River Heights, every time we've put money on the table to make investments in technology and equipment and staffing and budgets that will increase these services in Manitoba, the members opposite vote against it. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, the rural-urban divide is not just about wages. Indeed, for paramedics working in rural Manitoba, the working conditions are often severe and have been labelled dangerous, with shifts sometimes lasting up to 36 hours or even days at a time without a rest.

Under these stressful working conditions, it has been identified that 73 per cent of paramedics are in need of psychological support and 38 per cent of paramedics are aware of a paramedic who has contemplated sui cide. This says something horrible about the working conditions, and yet this Premier doesn't seem to care how severe it has gotten. When will the Premier act and provide fair and safe working conditions for paramedics in Manitoba? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question from the member opposite.

Because we do care about front -line service deliverers in Manitoba, last year we increased the number of rural paramedic positions by an additional 25 positions in Manitoba. We have announced the 1 6-seat advanced -care paramedic program and we are going to make sure that we continue to provide supports and services and technology and all the necessary tools for them to be able to do a good job.

And I only remind the member opposite and the members of the opposition that we are bringing forward legislation in this session for post -traumatic stress disorder presumptive coverage, which means that front-line service workers will be able to get that coverage more rapidly because it will be assumed that it's a part of their employment that caused that post-traumatic stress disorder. That program will come forward in legislation and it will have a strong prevention component to that as well, to make sure that people can avoid having to contract PTSD, Mr.

Speaker, and get and have that symptoms upon them by having safe working conditions. We will have very significant improvements in legislation. I look forward to all the members opposite passing that as rapidly as possible when it's introduced in the Legislature very soon. River East Transcona School Division Trades and Technology Forum for Girls Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas): Our–yesterday our government announced a first -of-its-kind forum in Canada to focus on encouraging girls to consider careers in science, technology, engineering, math and the skilled trades.

I am particularly excited about this announcement as a mother. I want my daughters to have a–have strong female role models and encourage them to pursue and expand their interests. This event for young girls complements the excellent initiatives already being offered for older girls and women in Manitoba. Can the Minister of Family Services please tell us about this new forum for young girls? Hon. Kerri Irvin -Ross (Minister of Family Services): Yesterday Sparking Interest brought together 70– 72 girls from grades 5 and 6 to Dr.

Bernie Wolfe school at River East Transcona School Division where they participated on hands-on activities led by women in the trades themselves. They had interesting workshops; I'll explain a few to you. The PEX work workshop allowed them to make hula hoops. They laid bricks. They were involved in flood protection. They built frames in the construction workshop, as well as –and they also were involved in geology, IT, as well as pipefitting.

1130 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2015 While they were working in their workshops, the teachers also were working on finding out ways to ensure that they are inspiring young women to take on non-traditional jobs. I'm very excited about this. This is a nother action we're taking to support jobs and our economy. Emergency Medical Services Review Implementation of Recommendations Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, the EMS review was conducted and many recommendations were brought forward, and to date there's only been one that's been implemented.

There are many recommendations written within the review that would benefit directly the residents, both permanent and seasonal, of the Lac du Bonnet constituency, Mr. Speaker. Why is this Health Minister dragging her feet, or is it because she was preoccupied from the months of December to March? Hon. Sharon Blady (Minister of Health): I thank the member for the question. There is no question that EMS service is critically important for Manitoba families. The care provided by our dedicated first responders saves lives daily.

And prior to 1997, EMS was a municipal responsibility and the staff were largely part -time volunteers with limited training and there was little to no provincial co-ordination of services. And I can say that the EMS system of today looks much different. We have a Medical Transportation Co- ordination Centre co- ordinating fast and efficient dispatch, a provincial ambulance fleet, as well as highly trained professional workforce integrated into our health-care system. I'm very proud of the work that's been done, and I know more work will be going forward under this EMS review and the hard-working team behind it.

Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. It is now time for members' statements. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Women Entrepreneur of the Year Awards Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, earlier this month I had the great pleasure of attending the 2015 Manitoba Woman Entrepreneur of the Year Awards, an evening that recognizes some of the most promising and successful women entrepreneurs across the province.

Since 1992, this event has honoured the dedication, tenacity, creativity and entrepreneurial spirit of professional women in Manitoba, and it recognize –and in recognizing today's leaders also creates inspiration for the emerging women business leaders of tomorrow. The entrepreneur of the year awards is hosted annually by the Women Business Owners of Manitoba, a non-profit organization that has proudly been providing support and recognition for women professionals for nearly 30 years.

By connecting professional women and providing them with opportunities to network and share each other's experiences, the Women Business Owners of Manitoba helps to nurture and further inspire the many remarkable professionals in our province.

This year's awards and winners were as follows: Excellence in Service, Kelly -Lee Smith of Smith personal–Personnel; Emerging Business, Majda Ficko of Olen Cosmetics Corporation; Home Enterprise, Heather Hinam of Second Nature: Adventures in Discovery; Contribution to Community, Diana Wiesenthal of Corporate People Responsibility Ltd.; Young Entrepreneur, Madison Zyluk of Verda Design; Lifetime Achievement Award goes to Barbara Bowes of Legacy Bowes Group; and Building Business and the Overall Excellence and winner of the entrepreneur of the year award overall was Shannon Putter of Exhale Dance Studio.

These winners are only a sample of the impressive women who attended this event, and the variety of experience of all the finalists exemplifies the breadth of leadership that exists in Manitoba and the potential that dedicated young women can realize. The Women Business Owners of Manitoba are a true example of leadership for women in our province and especially for young women as they prove that no matter the field, women make significant contribution to our community and to our province. * (14:30) It was an honour to have attended the evening along with my colleagues, Mr. Speaker. Sansome School Hon.

Sharon Blady (Minister of Health): In May, Sansome School celebrated a very important

May 26, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1131 milestone for many students, families and teachers in Kirkfield Park. Sansome School has now been serving the Westwood community for 50 years and it is near and dear to many people in the area. The school was built in 1965 as a junior high school and named after Joseph H. Sansome, a member of the Kirkfield Park school board and municipal official of Assiniboia from 1947 to 1959. The school has seen many changes over the years. Today Sansome is an early years school and is home to almost 300 students.

Despite the changes throughout the years, however, one thing has remained the same: Its dedicated teachers, educational assistants and principals go above and beyond to provide the students with a creative learning environment. They also provide the children with many extracurricular opportunities such as public speaking, drama and a marathon club. The students and staff also find ways to give back to their community. Every year they put together food hampers to deliver to families across the city. They also collect donations for Winnipeg Harvest and Koats for Kids.

Sansome School remains an important part of the community. And it was my pleasure to join everyone at the school's 50th anniversary. At the event they unveiled a beautiful mosaic made by the students, staff and people from the community that is now on display at the school. They also put together a time capsule that included pictures of the school over the years that were donated by alumni and faculty. This school will continue its long -standing tradition of excellence and continue to touch the hearts of everyone in the community.

Congratulations to Sansome School on 50 years as a safe and supportive place to learn. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Stan Davis Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, October 1st is South Korea's Armed Forces Day. Armed Forces Day recognizes veterans and honours our military personnel from the Korean War which ended in 1953. This horrific war took the lives of nearly 180,000 people. Canada sent 26,000 individuals to aid in the war effort and unfortunately lost over 500 Canadian lives. One of the Canadians who fought in this war was Stonewall resident Stan Davis.

Stan is a Korean War veteran who served on the Royal Canadian Navy. Originally from Fisher Branch, Stan trained as a signalman radio operator. He eventually ended up on the HMCS Cayuga, the navy destroyer ship headed for South Korea. While aboard the destroyer, Stan witnessed first -hand the deception of an individual who would eventually be the ins piration for a 1961 movie, The Great Impostor. After briefly returning home due to a sick family member, Stan returned to Asia on the HMCS Crusader destroyer and was a member of the renowned Trainbusters Club.

The Trainbusters Club was a group of military personnel responsible for destroying the enemy trains as they entered or exited tunnels. The Crusader was also the first Canadian ship to ever work with the US Navy impressive Seventh Fleet patrolling the eastern side of Korea. After the war ended in 1953, Stan returned home to become a radio operator for the federal department of transportation. He eventually retired from his position in 1985. Stan and many other brave Canadian militants represent the Canadian values of peace and freedom.

I would like t o thank Stan for his many years of service on behalf of all Manitobans. Juniper School Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation ): Tomorrow I'll be happy to welcome the class of 2015 from Juniper elementary school in Thompson to the Legislature. Accompanied by Superintendent Lorie Henderson, Principal Lucy Mayor and a team of teachers, these 33 students are capping off their junior high experience with a busy program of activities. For many students, this is a first visit to our provincial capital.

Today they are joining students from Hugh John MacDonald School in a cycling and storytelling tour that bring the city's history to life through stories about heroes like Louis Riel and famous events like the 1919 General Strike. Mr. Speaker, students from northern Manitoba biking along students from downtown Winnipeg, getting to know each other, learning about our

1132 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2015 province, setting an example of healthy active living, it doesn't get much more Manitoba than that. The Juniper students will also be visiting Winnipeg Art Gallery's Olympus exhibition tomorrow. Thursday they'll visit the Canadian Museum for Human Rights and the national centre for truth and reconciliation at the University of Manitoba, which I'm sure will be tremendous experiences. These students, Mr. Speaker, are participating in a unique project that is meant to support them all the way through to their future graduation from R.D.

Parker Collegiate in Thompson. These students are role models. They're making connections in our community and building bridges with students and students from many different backgrounds. At the same time, they're also exploring future career paths. There may even be some budding filmmakers amongst them. Part of the project involves learning how to tell stories, northern stories, through digital media. In fact, their upcoming short film about human rights, Rights, Camera, Action!, will premiere in Thompson on June 17th. All are invited to attend. I'm sure I speak for all MLAs, Mr.

Speaker, in welcoming the Juniper School students tomorrow and wishing them all the best in the future. Susydka Ukrainian Dance Club Mr. Dennis Smook (La Verendrye) : Mr. Speaker, the Ukrainian culture has a rich history in Manitoba. Some of the first Ukrainians in Manitoba settled in the eastern region where my constituency is located today. Growing up in eastern rural Manitoba, a large number of people in my community were Ukrainian.

As eastern Manitoba grew and continued to expand both geographically and culturally, more people of the various races and ethnicities came to the area and have embraced the Ukrainian heritage positively and with open arms. Nearly 15 per cent of Manitobans claim that their ethnic origin is Ukrainian, and Ukrainian is the sixth most frequently spoken language in the province. A large component of Ukrainian culture is dance. The Susydka Ukrainian dance group is located in my constituency and is known for its high level of talent.

Last Saturday, I had the pleasure of attending the Susydka U krainian dancers' 35th anniversary. Several dances were performed, including the Pryvit or welcome dance, by dozens of dancers ranging in age and talent. It is because of the dance group that the Ukrainian culture continues to be shared with individuals of various races and ethnicities in my constituency. The group is in high demand for its performances and dances at yearly events including the Ukrainian Kyiv Folklorama pavilion, Gardenton festival, Carrick Days and at the Vita daycare fall supper.

Since Valentyna Dmytrenko of the Valery Dance Academy of Winnipeg joined the group as an instructor seven years ago, the group has won several medals when taking

part in dance competitions. Last year, the Susydka senior girls won best overall performance by a Manitoba dance group at the Manitoba Ukrainian Dance Festival, and the junior girls all won gold medals at the same competition this last March. The club is committed to improving each year and accommodating as many requests to perform as possible. I would like to ask all members to join me in congratulating the Susydka Ukrainian Dance Club on its 35th anniversary and would ask to have the names of the dance group for the 2005th year included in Hansard. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker: Is there leave of the House to include the names that the honourable member for La Verendrye referenced and include the names in today's Hansard? [Agreed] Erin Adolphe, Kayla Adolphe , Nicole Adolphe, Alexandrea Bednar , Dayle Bially, Jonathan Bially, Taylor Bially, Logan Bodz , Tyra Bodz, Jeannine Brandt, Emmalee Chubaty, Caitlyn Cure , Cassandra Cure, Cheyenne Cure , Abigayle Dueck, Isabella Friesen , Richard Friesen, Sophia Friesen, Jocelyn Grant, Sydney Ludtke , Tristan Ludtke, Megan Nickel , Nicole Peeters, Riley Shewchuk , Seaira Shewchuk, Kianna Stubbert , Ethan Thibodeau, Genevieve Thibodeau, Michael Thibodeau, Michelle Thibodeau, Rebecca Thibodeau, Samantha Tymofichuk Mr.

Speaker: That–I believe that include–concludes members' statements. Grievances?

May 26, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1133 ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Mr. Speaker: No grievances, so we'll move on to orders of the day, government business. House Business Hon. Dave Chomiak (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, on House business, would you please canvass the House to see if there's unanimous consent to change the Estimates sequence in the Chamber for tomorrow, May 27th, so that Estimates for the Department of Education and Advanced Learning will be c onsidered in place of the Executive Council Estimates? This change is for tomorrow only. Mr.

Speaker: Is there leave of the House, and which requires unanimous consent, to change the Estimates sequence in the Chamber for tomorrow, May 27th, 2015, so that the Estimates for the Department of Education and Advanced Learning will be considered in place of the Executive Council Estimates? And this is for tomorrow only. [Agreed] * * * Mr. Chomiak: I wonder if we might move the House into Committee of Supply wit h Executive Council in the Chamber and Estimates in room 254 and 255. Mr. Speaker: We'll now resolve into the Committee of Supply.

Madam Deputy Speaker, will you please take the Chair, and the various committee Chairs to the committee rooms. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) FAMILY SERVICES * (14:40) Mr. Chairperson (Rob Altemeyer): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Fam ily Services. As previously agreed, questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner, and the minister's going to lead us off same as she did yesterday. Hon. Kerri Irvin -Ross (Minister of Family Services): Mr. Chairman, I'd like to table the following document in response to questions posed in an earlier Estimates. It is first the general position description for job description of the vacant FTEs in the department. They are all general authority program specialists.

The job descriptions for the 75 new employees hired since April 1st, they are all child -care support workers and the job postings for these same new employees. There was a question that was posed on an earlier date: What proportion of kids in care are receiving counselling services? Approximately 10 per cent of children in care that are financially the responsibility of the Province receive therapy. This represents children in foster home placements but does not include children placed in treatment centres and 'growp' –group homes where therapy is part of the program.

This also does not include children in care who receive free therapy from organizations such as MATC and Child Guidance Clinic. Some examples of providers of the therapy are speech therapists, occupational therapists, play therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists. There was a question regarding the frequent change of workers and continuity with the EIA program, and the question was: Do new workers need to request new records or information? As I said yesterd ay, all records and decisions are maintained in the SAMIN and hard copy files, so that information is readily available when workers change.

If recipients feel they aren't being treated fairly, they can contact the Fair Practices Office, which provides co nfidential and impartial assistance to Manitobans applying for or receiving services under the EIA. The Fair Practices Office investigates complaints, mediates disputes and makes recommendations on individual cases to program staff based on investigation outcomes. And, as usual, I encourage all members of the Legislature to bring individual cases forward to myself or the Minister of Jobs and the Economy (Mr. Chief).

We work very hard to ensure clients get all the benefits they are entitled to receive. The next question was how many people have entered the marketAbilities program. There are an estimated 672 marketAbilities program files opened in 2014- 2015; 554 were new openings, 118 were reopenings. Of the 672 files opened, 299 individuals were reported to be on EIA, so approximately 44 per cent.

1134 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2015 The next question was when someone who's a single parent and signs up for marketAbilities, are they still on EIA? While there are clients receiving services from both EIA and marketAbilities, there's no duplication of service or financial supports. EIA staff refer or defer to marketAbilities in the development and support of employment and training plans for persons living with disability. Further, people on EIA and in receipt of marketAbilities services are counted in the EIA caseload as well.

What specific training programs are targeted to specific populations like single parents? The parents of young children information sessions connected staff with 776 work- or training -ready parents on EIA since initia ted in the fall of 2013. Building on this success, the division is creating an ongoing program called Empowered to Change to continue working with the client base and providing active offers for employment planning. These sessions are being offered as a s upplement to employment planning activity that is occurring as part of case management with parents of young children.

Since January 2015, sessions have been held in three communities–Winnipeg, Winkler and Portage–with a total of 31 clients attending. How is Rent Assist integrated with EIA? How do people find out about it and what is the application process? When people apply for EIA, their eligibility for Rent Assist is also assessed. EIA recipients receive their Rent Assist benefits together with the E IA benefits in a single payment by direct deposit or by cheque. When Rent Assist benefits increase, EIA clients who are entitled to an increase will automatically receive it.

To apply for non -EIA Rent Assist, individuals can get the application form on the Internet, or application forms are also available at Family Services offices or by phoning the provincial services. Information about Rent Assist is available on the jobs and economy website and through informational materials available in Family Services offices and other community agencies. I think that concludes the EIA. So I want to thank jobs and economy for working with us to find some comprehensive answers for the questions from yesterday.

So, now we have some outstanding questions around–on CFS, and it was around who gets CPR training and who does not. Staff in residential care facilities need their CPR and first aid certification prior to employment. If they are working with infants, they would need infant CPR as well. They would need to keep up with recertification. We had a lengthy conversation yesterday around adoption records, and the member opposite asked a very important question about will there be a tracking process and what kind of data will be collected. This is, again, an answer, fulsome answer, from Janice Knight again.

So just bear with me. We appreciate all of her information. We process the applications for accessing birth records separately, and we have made this service request a priority in responding to the applications. The d ata we require to process the applications to access birth records for birth parents is the name of the child they placed for adoption, their name at the time of the child's birth and the child's birthdate and birthplace. The data we require to process the application to access birth records for adult adoptees is their current name, birthdate, birthplace and the names of their adoptive parents.

The applications require that the individuals –that's both the birth parents and adult adoptees –provide two pieces of valid, government-issued identification, one of which is a photo ID which have been certified as a true copy of the original, signed and dated by a witness who is a designated person. * (14:50) The data collected, i.e., applications and identifying documentation, are kept confidential and protected as per the adoption legislation and regulations. The application and identity validation process is similar to the processes used for the Child Abuse Registry check.

The same processes and data are collected for those individuals who are filing disclosure vetoes, contact vetoes, and once proclamations contact preferences. So I think that concludes the questions that were outstanding. Thank you for your time. Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): I thank the minister for so promptly answering the questions from yesterday, and, as with some of the other items she put on record yesterday, we'll probably come back to touch on them a little bit again when we have a chance to refer them back to the original questi on to see if all the issues were covered.

But I wanted to ask a few questions around the after-hours notification or process that ANCR is

May 26, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1135 responsible with, and first off, I guess, I'd like to know exactly how this responsibility is handled in the ANCR situation as it sits today. Ms. Irvin-Ross: Just for clarification, please, when you're speaking about ANCR, you're speaking about it as a designated intake agency? Is that what you're inquiring about? What are the services that they provide, or their responsibilities? An Honourable Member: That's right. Ms. Irvin-Ross: Okay. Just one moment, please. So ANCR provides a number of services as a designated intake agency.

It operates 24-7, and I think you were specifically inquiring about the after -hours service. So, if there is a complaint or a referral into the intake line around a child in danger, they would be the ones that would go out and they would make the assessment and make the plan with the family and with the child. There are other duties that they're also responsible for. They are involved within our emergency placement program, as well as will provide supports to the front-line workers that do not work in the evenings.

So they could–example of some of the work that they might do is they might relieve a worker that's at the hospital and provide support to them. They also, if a placement is broken down, they may be the people that go out and pick up the child and find a new placement. Their responsibility–they have the legislative responsibility under The Child and Family Services Act and are permitted to make apprehensions. They, too, are driven by the safety of the child is paramount, and that's our priority. There is –they do work closely with agencies.

They'll send the information to the agencies if they've been involved with the case. So it's really what we provide in the daytime as far as referrals and assessments and an intervention, is also happening in the evening with the staff that are present. Mr. Wishart: I thank the minister for that answer. So the science of –I mean, basically they're covering a significant portion of the day. The size of this agency, near as I can tell from the Estimates book, looks like about 20 staff positions. Is that correct? Ms. Irvin-Ross: I will get you the exact number of the staff that are hired, that are employed at AN CR.

But I'm pretty confident that in all of their different divisions that they would have –they'd have an administration division, they have their child abuse division, they also have their intake, as well as their after-hours–that there would be more than 20 employees. But I will get the –take it upon myself to get the exact number for you as soon as possible. I should, before I hand the mic back over to the member opposite, I should welcome Rhonda Warren to the table. She has joined us today. She is the director of funding and business analytics for the CFS division. Mr.

Wishart: I thank the minister for that , and I look forward to the number. It is somewhere in the 20 or 22, near as we can tell, but that's all the way through the weekends and holidays too? Ms. Irvin-Ross: Yes, it is. If I may add that we –they are the designated intake agency for Winnipeg. We also have a designated intake agency through the Metis authority which is housed in Dauphin. Mr. Wishart: I thank the minister for that, and actually the –their own report says Winnipeg and, I think, Headingley, East and West St. Paul, so that would be the–correct? Ms. Irvin-Ross: Yes, that's correct. Mr.

Wishart: Are there times when all of the staff in this area are occupied and someone calls in? What happens to the calls then? Is there always someone there? Ms. Irvin -Ross: As any child -welfare agenc y, it is extremely busy; there's lots of things that are happening. I'm–they'd priorize the calls as they come in and they make their best judgment. Intake calls are received and assessed, and decisions are made about when they need to go out and provide t he service or the intervention.

So I can tell you that they are extremely busy, but I also can tell you that they are professionals that are able to sort of balance their time and the requirements that they need. We ensure that we have–there's always a v oice on the other side of the phone, that there is a call answering service that we have that will send the information to the ANCR after-hours staff, as well as our staff that are working after hours also carry cellphones so we're able to reach them as well if there's an issue that has happened immediately and we need their intervention.

1136 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2015 Mr. Wishart: Well, and I thank the minister for that answer. So, when they can't reach a social worker or someone filling that position with ANCR, then the call would be referred to an answering service? Is that where it would go? Ms. Irvin-Ross: Yes. If everyone is out of the office taking care of business and supporting families and children, the call would be received by an answering service, and when the answering ser vice gets the information it is shared to the staff immediately. Mr.

Wishart: Is the minister familiar with the answering service in any regard? Ms. Irvin-Ross: I am familiar that it is a service that ANCR uses to support the work that they do. Have I called the answering service myself? No, I have had no need to report any child that is in need of protection; that's how that line should be used. So, if you have a particular story to tell or a casework that you'd like to share, I invite the member opposite to present that to me and we can have a conversation if there is a specific concern that you have. Mr. Wishart: Well, thank the minister for that.

And, yes, I do have a concern, in particular that the use of the after-hours service has increased dramatically in the last three years and yet extra staff have been put in place and now the minister's, in particular, making fairly dramatic changes to try and reduce the number of children that are in hotels, which I assume would be tied in indirectly to this service. * (15:00) So I guess I'm wondering if the service that –it's just an answering service and now has a major role in terms of co -ordination here. Do we have enough resources in this area and are we making the best use of these resources? Ms.

Irvin-Ross: What I'd like to make sure that the member understands is that the answering service is just that; it is answering the phone. It's getting the information. It's not making any judgments or assessing the case or the circumstances. What it does is as soon as it gets that information, that it is relaying that information directly to the workers that are the professionals in the field that will provide that assessment, that intervention that needs to happen. I'm not sure what the –where the member is going about we're changing business.

I would hope that he would support a new direction in which we are working towards and have accomplished in some ways around no children in hotels. We have the opportunity and have been supported by the authorities and many of the agencies collaboratively working together to address that issue and working on a plan of developing more resources, as we've spoken on earlier days, and will continue to do that. And, yes, we are working with the EPR placement desk with ANCR after-hour services with all of our resources to ensure that we are doing what is in the best interest of children.

That the child is in the centre and that we are working to support them, and I am very proud of the work that has been accomplished. We have a lot more work to do, and I think that the member will acknowledge that as well. But we're committed to making those significant changes to better support children and family. Mr. Wishart: I want to thank the minister for that answer.

The name of the service that is currently in use is called TigerTel, and in 11-12 year it was used on the average of 152 minutes per month with an almost straight-line increase from there to 14 -15 of 1,162 minutes per month, which is a 600– almost 700 per cent increase in four years.

And we're very concerned that this indicates a problem in terms of access to the after -hour service, which I think the minister knows is a very essential service, and we're concerned that there's really nothing–you'll continue using the service or some service in the future because really nothing in the system has changed to eliminate the after -hours need, though, hopefully, it is somewhat different in nature with the hotels not being a part of that service.

So I guess I'm looking for a response from the minister in regards to why we had such a dramatic increase in the use of this after-hour service, and is it symptomatic of a problem that we may have to deal with? Ms. Irvin -Ross: I, of course, would reframe it differently. I would reframe it that families are aware of the services that we are provided, community members are aware of the needs of families. I will not apologize about having a service that runs 24-7. I think families operate 24- 7 and there needs to be support made available to them.

When you operate an intake line, and I've had the privilege in my past life to answer those intake calls, and you can get everything from a child down the street isn't attending school, to you notice that

May 26, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1137 there were bruises on a child, or you suspect that a child is being sexually abused, or to the point where it's a parent -child conflict where parents are struggling with the child. So what this tells me is that people are aware of their responsibilities, their legislative responsibilities to report if they suspect that there's a child in danger and in need. I do not want to discourage that at all.

We need to make sure that we have the professionals within the system on the front lines providing the necessary supports to families as well as children, making sure that we're focusing on that. So the work that ANCR does is vitally important, because many of the agencies–they're not working after –in the evenings and we need to have that resource available, and they pr ovide good quality service as far as assessments, interventions, developing plans. They represent agencies within families.

Sometimes they are tasked with ensuring that if a placement has broken down, involving themselves in that placement and finding a s afe place for that child and resolving the conflict if possible. So I think that, yes, I see the marked increase of 700 per cent, but I think that I can frame it differently. Mr. Wishart: Well, I thank the minister for that. Certainly, it does increase–does indicate – sorry–a significant increase in the use of the system.

A little more analysis would be necessary to determine whether the use of the system was well intentioned, whether–that the contacts that are being put through that would become caseloads, if you want to put it that way, become issues under the CFS system. And there is some information around that. It seems to support the fact that a little more than half of the phone calls do turn into case files, which would suggest that there's clear ly a significant need. Are the people in the system TigerTel, are they trained in any regards related to CFS or they are simply answering the phone? Ms.

Irvin -Ross: I will tend to ask –I will ask that question with the department and provide that information when I have it. But I –as I've said earlier to the member opposite, it is a answering service that we have working with our system. What they do is they take the information and immediately refer it to the field staff, who are the professionals, who are trained within Child and Family Services and provide the necessary supports and assessment. And you're –the member is correct. When that intake call comes in, there is different routes that can happen.

Sometimes it's –can be on that first contact; sometimes it's a –in a brief intervention with a professional and we're able to avoid any further contact. Maybe it's a referral to a counselling agency if it's a parent -child conflict. If it is more involved, of–a situation of allegations of child abuse of any sort, it may take some medical intervention or involvement with Winnipeg Police Service. So–or sometimes what happens is that it is a file is opened and family supports are provided or the Family Enhancement Program provides that support.

So there is a ran ge of services that we're able to provide Manitobans, and ANCR is the –often the entry point of that conversation, and it is a important entry point. And in the evening we do have professionals that are on -call, that are working in the ANCR office, that do go out into the community and provide a variety of services to support children and adults or parents. Mr. Wishart: I thank the minister for that.

And as the minister probably has guessed by now, what drew our attention to this, of course, is someone who called us with an issue related to how things were handled, and their claim was–and they were ex-foster parents to this youngster who had been removed and was in the care of ANCR and was in a hotel at that time, who had called the foster parent, not the m ost recent foster parent but one some time back in the child's history, who, clearly, the child still had some connection to–and reported that the –the child reported to this foster parent that they had taken some pills in a possible suicide attempt.

From w hat we were able to determine, it turned out well, which we're all very happy for. However, the –and it went on to the answering service; there was no one available, which does happen. I understand that. However, no response was received for six hours. What happened in the system during that period of time that no one acted on this tip or information for six hours? * (15:10) Ms. Irvin -Ross: As I've explained to the member previously, we cannot discuss specific cases because of privacy and confidentiality.

If you'd like to bring it to my attention off record, I will certainly ask the department to investigate. The scenario that you have described, I agree that that is not acceptable, but we need to do the –our due diligence and have the conversation with the individuals that were involved. Mr. Wishart: Well, and I thank the minister for that. I know that she does not ever want to discuss case

1138 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2015 files, and, as you noted, I didn't put any names in around this. I fear that it may be a symptom, however, of a system that is overstressed and is not functioning as it should with the efficiency that is necessary to 'prevect' –prevent–or protect, sorry, the children. So I'm looking for an–some assurance from the minister that she'll do more than just look at the particular case, that she'll review the process and the system of after -hours to make sure that we have in place the safeguards to make sure that things happen in a timely manner.

This will only get busier with the use of the hotels reduced, I suspect, because there'll certainly be a greater co-ordination role necessary to make use of the foster placements that we all hope are being developed. So I'm looking for an assurance from the minister that she will take more than a passing look at this. Ms.

Irvin -Ross: I'd like to assure the member opposite that this department is consistently evaluating what services it provides, the policies, the standards that are in place, reviewing what is best practice across the country and working with the authorities and the agencies to constantly renew and develop policies that are in the best interest of the child, and we will continue to do that. What we will also continue to do, as we're providing intervention and support to families in crisis, this government has made a str ong commitment to ensuring that prevention services are also available to families.

We know that one of the indicators is poverty, and the ALL Aboard strategy and poverty reduction and social inclusion strategy is one of those examples of commitments. Over $1.2 billion is being spent on reducing poverty from everything from providing housing to jobs and employment opportunities to training and education and to child care. But also we have the prenatal benefits that are provided to families, as well as our Families First program.

Our parent -child coalitions across this province provide a venue for parents to come together and share information, share the challenges but also the successes that they feel, and work on nutrition, on physical activity, on literacy , and just having fun and some stress relief to happen for families too. So we will–as we have in the past, will continue to work with all of our partners to address the needs of Manitoba families. Child and Family Services is only one part of that solut ion. It goes to Education, children and youth and opportunities, Health.

We will–and Jobs and the Economy plays a key role in that with the work that they've done in partnership with Family Services around Rent Assist. We'll continue to do that, and we are very aware of the commitment that we made, the expectations of the province of Manitoba and the citizens of Manitoba. And we are working with the authorities and the agencies, as I've said earlier, to work on a plan that ensures that there will be no children in hotels, while ensuring the safety and protection of Manitoba children. Mr. Wishart: Well, I thank the minister for that answer, and I'd like to ask a few more questions.

And she did supply us with some information around the IT area with Cúram and the project there. And we had touched on, briefly, some of the information that has yet to be collected, things like the attendance in schools. And I know the minister made reference to the fact that school divisions do collect attendance records. And w e looked into that, and most of the time the school division cannot tell you whether the child is in care of CFS or not. So that side of the equation in terms of getting attendance records is not very productive.

So I'm wondering if the new system will contain any way of tracking the attendance of school –of children, sorry, that are in the care of CFS that should be attending school. Ms. Irvin -Ross: Yes, when I was sharing the information previously, what I was able to state is that education system is one of our partners. When we have a child in care, they are part of the solution. They are part of looking at how do we provide some continuity for the child, as well as providing us information about what their a cademics are, socially how they are in the community.

But also Cúram, we are looking at our project scoping that we've been working on for the last year and we are confident that we will be able to have an ability to track educational outcomes for the chil dren and youth that are within our system. Mr. Wishart: Well, then, I appreciate that. I think it's very important that we are able to do that. We keep hearing stories about children who are in the care of CFS who–not regularly attending school. So I think it's important that we be in a position to track what is happening and also graduation rates.

So has the minister approached, then, the Education Department to see who will do the

May 26, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1139 tracking on this? Is it going to be your responsibility or their responsibility? Ms. Irvin -Ross: Education tracks every student that's registered within the school system in Manitoba, so they're going to continue to do that. What we're saying is that we are going to scope into Cúram an ability to track the education, the students, and if they're atte nding school or not. So this Cúram has a potential to link into other departments, other interface–I'm going way above my Peg Rater technology.

But interface, I think, is the right word, with other departments such as Justice and Education and Health. Our primary goal right now, though, is to focus on ensuring that we have a system that meets the needs of child welfare, and we understand the information and the importance of an education. We know that that is going to equalize and provide stronger and bet ter outcomes for our young people, and that has to be our commitment. Mr. Wishart: Well, I certainly appreciate that. When did you begin working with this system?

Is this just in the last year, because it does appear in the budget in the last year, and how long an agreement do you have? Ms. Irvin -Ross: On–I'm going to shock you–on November 20th, 2008, it was in the Speech from the Throne. It was mentioned that we were going to enhance the safety and protection of children through an advanced case-management system. At that time it wasn't identified as Cúram, but, after that, time was spent working with the folks in the department and with the authorities, but also looking in other jurisdictions around how their IT systems have been working.

And, after much deliberation, we have decided that we will work with Cúram as the enterprise level platform, which means we've agreed to that one because it is able to interface with multiple programs. So that's why we've landed on that. But it is a huge commitmen t. Any IT changes is a huge, huge commitment and we are working through it right now with all of our partners. We have a committee at the department that is looking at the project scope, but also there are regular contacts with authorities –with CEOs of the authorities– around how we need to move forward. Mr.

Wishart: I thank the minister for those answers. So, clearly, you haven't been working with this particular company for the last seven years. It wasn't part of the Throne Speech. Could you narrow that down a little bit in terms of when you actually entered into an agreement with this particular company, after doing your research as to which company, or which services, or which IT services would meet the need? * (15:20) Ms. Irvin-Ross: A tender went out in November of 2013 asking for a project charter, really looking at – for a group that would help us to develop our IT. That's what happened in November of 2013.

We were working long before 2013, anywhere between two years and 18 months of looking at what platform did we want to use. And that was speaking with the other jurisdictions and having many conversations about how we wanted to proceed. Mr. Wishart: So, just so I understand it, in November of 2013, you did a call for proposal or asked for a specific proposal from this company? Ms. Irvin-Ross: It isn't a proposal from this specific company.

Cúram is the platform and what we were wanting is we were looking for, in the 2013, it was the scoping phase of the technology, so what we wanted to do is we wa nted to find a service provider that would help us case manage this initiative. And there are a number of groups in the community that has information or has expertise in the development of IT, so that's what we were looking for. We were looking for a lead. We do not have the IT expertise within this department.

We needed a consultant to help give us that information and support the implementation, as well as scoping out what is –what are our needs and what platform will best meet our needs. Mr. Wishart: So just so I get this right, and I think all of us want to get it right, Cúram is actually the software platform. [interjection] Yes, okay, software platform. So you were looking for someone to supply the hardware with this and the expertise. Is tha t what you were looking for? Ms. Irvin -Ross: So, just for the record, IBM owns the Cúram licence, so IBM is the owner.

What we were looking for is we were looking for a group of individuals that help lead us to the implementation of an IT strategy. So tha t's really what –it was about project scoping. So meeting with the front -line staff, meeting with the authorities and with the agencies and having a conversation about this is what CFIS

1140 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2015 does. Now what do you like about it, what do you want to–what you don't like about it, and what would you like in a new system? And looking at what are some of the indicators that we want to track, and education is one of those examples that you have raised previously. And how does it work with our – within our system with our assessment tools that we use. How does it work with SDM? How does it work with information about foster parents?

How does it all–how do all the programs talk to each other within our system so we can have a better, stronger co-ordination, because we know i f we have better and stronger co-ordination that we're able to provide more, better support for our families and the children. Mr. Wishart: Well, I thank the minister for answering that question. So you acquired the rights to use the software that IBM has developed. Is there a period of time on that agreement or is it an annual agreement? Ms. Irvin -Ross: We have not finalized the agreement with IBM.

I'm not–we–what we are doing is we are still scoping it out with the consultants that we're working with. With the co- operation with the authorities and with the agencies and the front -line staff, we are developing a project plan looking at organizational change, management, looking at gaps. So there might be gaps that Cúram can't do for us, and so we may have to look at how do we ask IBM to include it into their program and how do we ensure that we're able to transfer our data from CFIS to Cúram in a smooth way that we're not losing information because the legacy of that data is vitally important.

And then, also, it would include the pricing of the implementation. And, as we spoke about earlier, that this is a significant change when you're changing IT, and it has impact for our staffing and our training, and so there has to be a lot of co-ordination that happens throughout the province. Mr. Wishart: Well, and I appreciate the answers. I gather this will be a very long process, and, certainly, we don't want to lose the existing data. This has been quite a while in development.

I am –in your process of deciding on the Cúram software approach, did you check with other jurisdictions to see how many were using that software platform? Is this a common platform to be put to this purpose? Ms. Irvin -Ross: Cúram is being used as a case- management system for child welfare in Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario and several US states, for income assistance in Saskatchewan, for workers' compensation in BC and for ne wcomers and seniors' services in Alberta; and, in Manitoba, Cúram could support programs as well as probation, education, training, public health and other case -managed support.

So it really is about case management. It's – and it can be adapted to the needs of child welfare. And, you know, you questioned the length of time. And IT is very complicated, and you need to be very strategic of how you are planning the implementation and ensuring that when you have this system that is ready to run and operate –because we cannot afford to have a system that will not meet the needs of the front -line staff and will not gather and ensure that it continues to gather the important information that what –that we need.

We did extensive consulting with Saskatchewan and A lberta about what they did, what went right, what went wrong. And so I believe that we will build on their experience and anticipate having a better experience here in Manitoba. Mr. Wishart: Well, and I thank the Chairman and the minister for answering that question. Certainly, it is important that we get this right. As the minister knows, however, the recommendations involving the existent system, CFIS, go back to, I think, 2006 when the recommendation first appeared that we needed to have an alternativ e system.

So it's been a long time coming, and I do encourage us –the minister to get it right because we don't want a system that will not meet our needs going on into the future. And, in fact, it is important to tie in others. And you mentioned that we do have some departments here in Manitoba that are already using it. Justice was not one? Which –you made reference to–which departments in Manitoba are using it to some degree? Ms. Irvin -Ross: There are no departments in Manitoba that are using it. What I w as saying is that it could be used by any department that case-manages.

So Health, and public health is a good example, or Justice. It's really a case-management tool. While I have the floor, may I put on the information around, from ANCR? An Honourab le Member: I'm not going to stop you. Ms. Irvin -Ross: Its staff total is 163 FTEs. After-hours unit, we have 18.8 FTEs. There are two supervisor positions and a half of an admin position, which means that there are 16.3 front -line positions. [interjection] Sixteen point three front-line positions.

May 26, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1141 And that is –I want to make it very clear that that is the after-hours program for ANCR. * (15:30) Mr. Wishart: Just to clear that up, then, are there any vacancies in that area, because we did talk about vacancy rates earlier? Ms. Irvin -Ross: We'll take that upon ourselves to find out whether there is, but we'll report back as soon as possible. Mr. Wishart: Well, I thank the minister. She's been very prompt with her answers and I appreciate that. It makes doing our job a little bit easier when we can get the information during the Estimates process.

I did want to touch on one or two other items that had been entered into the record earlier. You mentioned the job description, and that was a discussion from a few days ago. And was that the job description for those employees that are being hired or in the process of being hired now? And you have, I believe the number was 50 or so already hired that are temporary employees to help deal with the issue of children in hotels and work with them in foster placement. So is that that job description? Ms. Irvin-Ross: Yes.

The one job description that I handed to you was the one for the 75 new employees hired since April 1st, and they are child -care support workers. And also included in that package is the job posting that goes along with the job description. Mr. Wishart: This may be an odd question, but you hired them and now we're getting a job description? Was the job description not out there beforehand? Ms. Irvin-Ross: This will sound like an odd answer; you just asked for the job description and so we had given it to you. It was around, yes, it was around; I just, I hadn't tabled it yesterday.

I just needed to have the copies made in order to table it for y ou. So, yes, prior to hiring these positions, it is an expectation that a job description is submitted to the Civil Service Commission. Mr. Wishart: Well, I appreciate that. It was actually a question that my colleague from River East had asked about the j ob description, and reading back in the Hansard record, it did seem a little odd that we were having to get the job description when we were already hiring.

Now yesterday you read into the record a little bit of the training that went towards the 75 new positions that you are –you have created, and talked about some of the training that is being done and ANCR is doing that training. Is that correct? Ms. Irvin -Ross: The training is happening at the ANCR offices. We are –the training is happening by EPR staf f that are facilitating the five -day workshops. Mr. Wishart: The acronym that you just used, APR? Ms. Irvin-Ross: My apologies, EPR, the emergency placement program. The staff from there are helping with the training. Mr.

Wishart: Well, and I thank the minister for that. And emergency placements is clearly, we'll have to find the need. The training here is all done within a week? Ms. Irvin-Ross: There is five days of training and I did list out all of the different components of that training yesterday. There is –that's the classroom training and then there is also support that happens directly within the supervision of the youth or the children that they're responsible for. So it's ongoing. We will ensure that we provide those services to the staff tha t we hire.

We know the importance of good-quality trained staff; it can avoid a lot of conflicts within our, within the facilities, and we want to make sure that we're making that investment in the people. So this is really the preliminary training that 's happening, and then there will be ongoing training that will be a part of their employment. Mr. Wishart: Well, I appreciate that. I think it is very important that these people be very well trained.

That was at least part of the problem that was recognized with the care in hotels and the contractual arrangements, so we don't want to get in a position where we have people responsible for kids in care that do not have good training, and I'd certainly recognize the need for ongoing. But these are high- risk kids, in many cases, not all. How would that compare to, say, the training that goes into a group home that has high- risk kids into it? You referenced that a little earlier, too, some of the training, and it sounded much more extensive. Ms.

Irvin -Ross: We are constantly assessing the youth that are in our care and ensuring that we are providing the right staffing ratio to the youth dependent on their needs. I think what you have to consider is that –that there are –we have hired a

1142 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2015 number of new people, but there are also a number of people within the system that have decades of experience. I've met some of them that have worked in the EPR system for over 30 years. So we have some strong mentors that we'll be working with them and providing them with the support they need. We know the importance, and I think the member opposite does as well, of providing the right support for the youth to ensure that we can avoid any conflict with them and make sure that we are able to help support them.

The EPR system is one where we provide support, but then, while we're doing that, within that system we're looking for what is the – what's the plan for the child? Is it a plan of one returning the child back to the family home, and what kind of supports need to happen in orde r to support that child, or is it we need to have this child in care for a longer term, and what kind of foster home placement or agency placement do we need to look at?

And so that –really, what we need to do is make sure that we're providing them with t he adequate support and we also, in November, when we announced that we were creating more beds and hiring more staff, we also talked about ensuring that there are, if necessary, counselling or psychological services that are available in our EPR system to provide assessment so we know exactly what are the needs of the child to better plan for them.

So it's a combination, and I think you also have to be very aware that attached with each one of these children is also the case manager, or the social worker that is assigned to them that will oversee the implementation of the plan while they're working with all of the other collateral agencies and, most importantly, with the family, of coming up with a plan. Mr. Wishart: Well, I appreciate that.

So, in terms of the EPR and the workers that we're talking about here now, the 75, their responsibility will be, in many cases, short term with the children, with the newly created group home and foster placements as the children transition to a longer term more stable? Ms. Irvin-Ross: The emergency placement program or resource is exactly what it states. It is supposed to be emergency placement.

It is to be that time where a child is apprehended and we need a safe place to have that child have a roof over their head and provide them with the supports that they need, but while they're there, the goal is is that we're working on a plan that is in co- operation with the other collateral agencies, as well as the parents and working on implementing that plan with the professionals that are involved.

So, sometimes, as I said earlier, that it could be a plan that the child is returned home, that it was a short-term crisis and there was an intervention that could be put in place to alleviate the risk of the child. The second one is that if a child is in need of protection and we need more time to support the child and support the family before we can work towards reunification, we will do that, and, as it says, emergency placement.

So the options after the emergency placement for some could be residential treatment, could be a group home, could be a foster placement, could be a kinship program within the family and within the community. There are different streams which can happen, and always it is imperative that the needs of the child are what directs us in making good decisions for them, and with them is also key. * (15:40) Mr. Wishart: I want to thank the minister for those questions.

I just wanted to go back briefly to the telephone answering service that we referred to earlier in our discussions, and the dramatic increase that we saw in usage, and pretty much a sevenfold increase of people using the line, whether those be children or whether those be foster parents or whoever it was. I'm still uncomfortable why that number increased so much and why does –and the minister offered some explanation as to, well, it's a good thing. I can't see how that that can be interpreted as a good thi ng.

It means that there is, obviously, a lot more people using it, which is more crisis situations, and it also means that the regular after-hours service is not, in terms of the staff and you did give us staff numbers which was actually less than I thought it was why–that they're not able to handle it, and it's quite a dramatic increase. Can the minister offer a little bit more insight into why she thinks that's a good thing? Ms. Irvin -Ross: I think that if anyone in this province knows that there's a c hild at risk, a child in need of protection that they must call. So I will not apologize for that.

And I think that that is reflected in this number; we're sharing the information. We have families that are in crisis and we have families that have had generational issues that have impacted

May 26, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1143 them, such as residential school, colonization, the '60s scoop and racism. That has impacted them. We need to ensure that when a family needs support that we're available to them and we are able to provide 24 -7 support. We have our agencies that provide that support throughout the day, and I am very grateful that we do have an after -hours program that is in the front lines providing that support not only to families in the community but also for foster parents themselves and to youth and children.

I have some more information I'd like to put on the record around the answering service is called TigerTel. They have been used by ANCR since its inception, and prior to that by Winnipeg Child and Family Services. There are o ther CFS agencies that use them as well. It is used by the after -hours program only when all the front -line staff are occupied out in the field or with urgent matters in the office such as arranging of placement of children. There are shifts where it has b een used a lot and others where it's not used at all. It is considered a backup.

The after-hours program will forward the phones to TigerTel if we're unable to take the call. TigerTel faxes us all the messages when they take them directly to ANCR. If the matter is urgent, they will call 911, and they ensure that they also get that message to the front-line staff immediately. Mr.

Wishart: Well, given the minister's statement, that makes the example that came forward to me even more incredulous, because s ix hours is not prompt in anyone's book, especially when the individual may have been at risk for suicide and had reached out to a foster parent who clearly knew about the system and made the call. And, yes, I appreciate that all the staff might be busy at the moment of the call and that the answering service, which has increased demand by quite substantial, would have to take that. But how did the call go astray and that no one from–no one called 911, then? Ms.

Irvin -Ross: As I have stated earlier and I w ill restate, that if the member would like to talk about a particular situation, if he'd like to share it with the office, we will certainly follow up with it. We will find out what happened in that particular situation. I will not debate service delivery or jeopardize sharing the private information of a child or a family on this record. I know that this frustrates the member. I welcome his casework.

I have managed a number of his–I have managed many of his casework files and will continue to do that when he raises a concern, and we work very promptly to address them efficiently and effectively. So, please, off record, share us the facts and we will follow up. Mr. Wishart: Thank you, and I appreciate the minister's frustration with this, you know, and we are frustrated with this, because it should have worked and didn't in this case. Maybe it's a one-off, who knows.

It's certainly the only one that we're aware of, and I will certainly share what we have for information in regards to this with the minister in the future on a casework basis. But, as the minister knows, and I certainly have come to know and appreciate, casework very often points out problems in the system. And that's what I'm trying to share with the minister here, is that we may have a problem in the system that needs to be resolved.

And, during the process here when we're making significant changes to how children at risk are being handled and where they're being placed, I think it's important that we try and deal with this problem along with any other. So that is my concern. I'm sure the minister appreciates that, and I hope that she will take my concern under advisement and follow up to make sure that this cannot happen again, because we do not want to see anyone put at risk, whether it becomes an individual piece of casework, or whether it becomes a policy issue into the future. Ms.

Irvin -Ross: As I have stated earlier, that we constantly are evaluating the service that we provide to Manitobans, working towards improving it, while we're ensuring that the protection of the children is No. 1, and we will continue to do that. We are always, always looking to evaluate our policies and our standards in the way that we work. And I think that you can just look at what's happened over the last number of years of how the system has been strengthened, and there's lots of examples. And it

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	40-4-36b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	40th 4th hansardpdf 36b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	e9a0aed2e4ab6514c7c48f11e49cc72a097066c0

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