December 4, 2000 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIV No. 26

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!

Before we begin, I would like to introduce to the Members of the House our two new pages. To my left I have Tony

McDonald, who has joined us for the first time, and Sean Ryan with the Sergeant-At-Arms.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, with your indulgence I would like to take care of some very important housekeeping duties,

and in that regard I move that Mr. Robert Mercer, the Member for the District of Humber East, be elected Deputy

Speaker of this Assembly.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: According to parliamentary procedure, I certainly second that motion.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Robert Mercer, the Member for the District of Humber East, be elected

as Deputy Speaker of this Assembly.

All those in favor of the motion, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: Against.

I declare the motion carried, and that the Member for Humber East is duly elected the Deputy Speaker of this Assembly.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I also move that Ms Mary Hodder, the Member for the District of Burin- Placentia West, be

elected Deputy Chairperson of the committees of this House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I second that motion.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Ms Mary Hodder, the Member for the District of Burin-Placentia West

be elected as Deputy Chairperson of committees of this Assembly.

All those in favor of the motion, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: Against.

I declare the Member for Burin-Placentia West duly elected Deputy Chair of committees of this Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statement by Members

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright–L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today I stand to offer congratulations to Ms Marie Powell of Charlottetown, Labrador on receiving the Woman Entrepreneur

of the Year Award for the Labrador region. This award, offered by NLOWE, Newfoundland and Labrador Organization

of Women Entrepreneurs, honours women who have made a significant and successful contribution to both community

and business.

Marie is the manager of B. W. Powell Limited of Charlottetown, a business started by her father and her family

over fifty years ago. Marie has committed her life to business and community. Her dedication is not only seen

in the business that she has helped to build but also in her volunteer contributions. She is active in the promotion

of literacy and family care programs. She provides support to her church and serves as a member of the community

council.

As I congratulate Marie on her success, I would also like to recognize the many other women in our Province who

serve in both community and in business.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, I rise today in this hon. House to congratulate one of my caucus colleagues on being

inducted into the Newfoundland and Labrador Soccer Hall of Fame. This inductee was recognized for his contribution

as a player. Mr. Eddie Joyce -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Eddie Joyce, the MHA for Bay of Islands.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SWEENEY: Before gracing us with his presence here as a Member of the House of Assembly, he was one of Corner

Brook's premier soccer players. For fifteen seasons Eddie Joyce played the game he so loved with the Curling Rangers

and the Corner Brook Allstars.

He was known for his aggressive performance and also his fiery competitiveness. At the Corner Brook level of competition

he was a dominant force; named top scorer six times and most valuable player three times. He was also named Corner

Brook's male athlete of the year in 1974. In 1976 his two-goal effort led Corner Brook to the provincial seniors

championship.

Mr. Speaker, the MHA for Bay of Islands is also known for his tireless effort to promote the game of soccer he

so loves; by coordinating the Corner Brook soccer program, and even being recognized by former Conservative Premier

Frank Moores.

Mr. Joyce's contributions to the game of soccer are well recognized and I, on behalf of the entire House of Assembly,

congratulate him on this achievement, on being inducted into the Newfoundland and Labrador Soccer Hall of Fame.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER TULK: Mr. Speaker, it is with a great deal of regret that I rise to observe the recent passing of Raymond

Guy, of Musgrave Harbour, who was not only a constituent but a special friend. On November 24, Mr. Guy passed

away at the age of eighty-eight.

Raymond Guy contributed a great deal to this Province, as a government representative and as a public servant.

Mr. Guy was a Member of the House of Assembly from 1959 to 1962, representing the District of Grand Falls. In

1964, he moved to St. John's to work with the Emergency Measures Organization and later became its director, remaining

in that position until his retirement in the late 1970s.

Mr. Speaker, this record of public service alone deserves recognition; however, Mr. Guy also contributed in other

ways to the communities of which he was a part: in business, community service and culture.

Prior to his involvement with the provincial government, Mr. Guy worked in a management role in the retail trade

in Grand Falls for some thirty years. He also served with the Royal Navy during the Second World War and was commissioned

as a Lieutenant in the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve in 1941.

Mr. Guy was a member of a number of fraternal organizations, and served on the provincial executive of the Royal

Canadian Legion. In the early 1950s, he formed and commanded the Windsor Sea Cadet Corps, an organization to serve

youth and teach discipline, teamwork and dedication to task.

Mr. Guy also contributed to the cultural landscape of the Province, winning the history category of the Newfoundland

Arts and Letters competition in 1971 and 1977. Mr. Speaker, the historical writing and storytelling of Mr. Guy

is known across this Province.

A few years after Mr. Guy retired, his family moved to Musgrave Harbour where they became known as the gardeners

of the northeast coast.

Mr. Speaker, I, on behalf of the government and people of Newfoundland and Labrador, wish to pass along condolences

to the family of Raymond Guy: his wife, his children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Our sympathies and

best wishes, I am sure, of all of us in this House, are with Mr. Guy's family and friends as they mourn his loss.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thought the Premier was making a member's statement. I apologize.

I can only concur with the Premier's statement on Mr. Guy. We, on this side of the House, certainly want to be

associated with the comments made by the Premier, and for the Speaker to send, on our behalf as well, condolences

to his family on his passing.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We, in our caucus, would want to be associated with the remarks of the Premier on the passing of the late Mr. Ray

Guy. His contribution to this House, though brief, is perhaps less well-known than his contribution later in life

as a writer, storyteller and commentator. Certainly we join in asking you, Your Honor, to send condolences to

his family on behalf of all members of this hon. House.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is my pleasure to provide this House with a mid-year report on the economic and financial position of the Province

of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Economic Performance: In 2000, the Province is expected to experience strong economic growth for the third consecutive

year. Real GDP growth is on target with the budget forecast of 4.7 per cent. The economy of the Province of Newfoundland

and Labrador has been among the country's leaders in growth for the past few years, and this year is no exception.

Strong performance is expected in the export-related industries. Oil production is anticipated to be 50 million

barrels in 2000, or 37 per cent higher than in 1999. Iron ore production is up 18 per cent and newsprint shipments

will approach near record levels, following the lower shipments, of course, that were recorded in 1998 and 1999.

Fish landings are expected to increase in 2000, and the value of fish production will be in excess of $1 billion

for the second straight year. The tourism sector continues to build on the successful promotions such as the Cabot

500 celebrations and this year's Viking events. Non-resident visitors are expected to be at a record-high level

of about 415,000, topping the 400,000 mark for the first time in our history.

Recent economic indicators show that we are doing as well or better than expected in most areas. Retail sales

were up 7.3 per cent from January to August of this year. Housing starts are up 10.2 per cent from January to

September of 2000. Labour income has increased 6.4 per cent during the period January to July 2000, compared with

the same time last year.

Employment is now expected to remain stable at the 1999 level. The employment gains made in retail trade, tourism

and other service industries were offset by lower than expected employment in crab processing. This was due to

lower quotas, market preferences for sections rather than meat and new mechanization lines in plants. Higher inflation

rates, due to increased energy prices, will cause real personal income and real retail trade to be slightly lower

than expected at budget time.

The economy and the economic outlook for the Province in 2001 remains strong. Real GDP is expected to grow by

4.3 per cent, which is in line with forecasts from the private sector. Employment gains are expected next year

as the goods sector stabilizes and continued growth is seen in the service sector.

Fiscal Outlook: Mr. Speaker, while economic growth does not necessarily result in similar levels of revenue growth,

I am pleased to report that overall our fiscal performance for the 2000-2001 fiscal year remains on target with

our budgeted deficit of $34.7 million, which included a contingency reserve of $30 million.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MATTHEWS: Our revenues remain on target with the budget forecast. Individually, some revenues, such as royalties

from the offshore, are expected to increase from our budget forecast, while others, such as gasoline tax, may decrease.

Increased royalties reflect a higher than anticipated world oil price, while decreased gas tax results from the

same reason; higher prices result in lower consumption. Other revenues remain stable and are expected to be on

target with our budget projections.

This Province has made substantial progress over the past few years to get its fiscal house in order. This was

achieved through a program of responsible fiscal management and prudent spending. We must maintain the discipline

which brought us fiscal stability, and we must be vigilant to ensure we do not return to the days of unsustainable

deficits. Pressures to increase spending exist and the Province will ensure these pressures are dealt with in

a manner that is consistent with our ability to pay. This government will continue to maintain a balance between

economic and social development initiatives to ensure that Newfoundlanders and Labradorians have access to health

care, employment opportunities and education.

Equalization: Equalization provides substantial benefits to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, and while

these funds contribute greatly to funding provincial programs such as health, education and assistance to those

in need, the program can work better. Despite the promise of our natural resources, disparities exist between

Newfoundland and Labrador and other provinces and the existing equalization program is not working quickly enough

to reduce these disparities. We wish to be less dependent on federal transfers. We wish to catch up with other

provinces. We want to see a greater share of revenues from natural resources used directly in this Province to

enhance our economic prospects and provide quality programs for our residents.

Premiers have recognized the importance of this equalization process and have called on the federal government

to strength its commitment to the program. Atlantic Premiers endorse a reaffirmation of the principles of equalization

and have called on the Prime Minister to enhance the program to ensure it fulfils its constitutional obligations.

I am committed to working with my provincial colleagues in Atlantic Canada and across the country towards a process

of meaningful, constructive dialogue with the federal Minister of Finance. The equalization program can be strengthened

to make it work better, to make it more responsive to the needs of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

Mr. Speaker, Provincial and Territorial Finance Ministers are meeting next week to discuss a range of issues, including

the equalization program. I intend to engage my colleagues in a discussion of the merits of the program and of

the opportunities to make it stronger. This will form the basis of an approach to the federal minister for fundamental

change.

Tax Reform:

Mr. Speaker, in 2000, the Province embarked on a responsible and sustainable three year personal income tax reduction

strategy. As a result, residents of this Province are benefitting from a $42 million provincial tax reduction

this year, the year 2000. Next year, taxpayers will save $60 million compared to 1999. Combined with tax reductions

announced by the federal government, over the three year period $400 million will be put back in the hands of Newfoundlanders

and Labradorians and into the economy of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MATTHEWS: This will have a direct impact on the economic growth of the Province.

I will be introducing a bill in this House shortly which will give effect to the tax reductions for 2001 and which

will move the Province to a different method of determining provincial income tax. This new system will be known

as Tax on Income. I will speak to this bill when it is introduced a little later in this session.

Mr. Speaker, in the fall of 1999, this government embarked on an extensive consultation process to renew the Province's

economic agenda - the jobs and growth agenda. A consistent message heard was that government must look at new

ways of enhancing access to investment capital. As a direct result, the 2000 Budget committed to the introduction

of a Venture Capital Tax Credit Program. In October of this year, following a process of consultation, two new

initiatives were introduced which are designed to encourage venture capital investments in all areas of the Province.

The Direct Equity Tax Credit and the Labour-Sponsored Venture Capital Tax Credit respond directly to the message

that this government heard from the business community - that government should encourage investment in businesses

throughout the Province by offering incentives to invest in the ideas and plans of entrepreneurs.

The Direct Equity Tax Credit Program provides a 20 per cent credit against provincial personal income tax for investments

made in eligible businesses operating in the Northeast Avalon region. Based on feedback received during the consultation

process, this rate will be sufficient to address the needs of businesses in this area. Recognizing, however, that

there is a greater challenge to raising investment capital in other areas of the Province, we are providing a substantially

higher tax credit rate of 35 per cent outside the Northeast Avalon region.

Information sessions are currently being held across the Province to ensure the high level of understanding of

the benefits of this tax credit program. I am greatly encouraged by the response to date and am confident that

both programs will meet our objectives of encouraging investment by residents of the Province in local enterprises,

particularly in the rural areas of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, the Province's tax regime is moving in the right direction. In 1997, we lowered our sales tax rate

from 12 per cent to 8 per cent. The introduction of the HST has been responsible for putting in excess of $100

million annually back in the hands of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MATTHEWS: It has stimulated a substantial increase in retail sales since its introduction and has contributed

to an increased level of consumer confidence in the Province. In 1998, the Province introduced a Film Tax Credit

designed to encourage growth in the local film industry. In each of the last three budgets, government has reduced

the payroll tax so that, currently, 94 per cent of businesses in the Province do not pay a payroll tax. Our corporate

income -

MR. E. BYRNE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition on a point of order.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to remind ministers in government that according to 107 of Beauchesne:

Ministerial Statements are not meant to be a platform or regurgitation of current government policy, or policy

for the last three years.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: Clearly it says - and I can state it for the record of the House - §348: "Under Standing

Order 33(1) Ministers may make a short factual announcement or statement of Government policy. Provision is made

for replies by Members of parties in opposition to comment on the statement. The Speaker may limit the time for

reply as seems fit."

It goes on to say in §350: "The Speaker has emphasized that both the Government and Opposition contributions

should be brief and factual."

Mr. Speaker, this is not a platform within the Orders of the House for ministers to get up and make policy statements,

regurgitation, or a political platform for their benefit. The provision within the Standing Orders is clear; for

a minister to convey a short, factual, brief information to the House, and to the public. I ask the Speaker to

rule and take this minister, and all others who want to take this House on their backs, in a way that should be

appropriate.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

To that point of order, there have been many ministerial statements presented in this House of varying lengths,

since I have been here, and there is nothing in our Standing Orders that limits the length or topic that a member

or minister may present. So, there is really no point of order.

I ask the hon. minister to complete his statement.

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Because of the break in continuity, let me start all over again.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister now to complete his statement.

MR. MATTHEWS: In 1997, Mr. Speaker, we lowered our sales tax rate from 12 per cent to 8 per cent. The introduction

of the HST was responsible for putting in excess of $100 million annually back in the hands of Newfoundlanders

and Labradorians.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MATTHEWS: It has stimulated a substantial increase in retail sales since its introduction and has contributed

to an increased level of consumer confidence in the Province. In 1998, the Province introduced a Film Tax Credit

designed to encourage growth in the local film industry. You may have forgotten it, so I will say it again. In

each of the last three budgets, government has reduced the payroll tax so that, currently, 94 per cent of businesses

in the Province do not pay the tax. Our corporate income tax regime remains one of the most competitive in the

country. These measures, combined with the recent personal income tax reductions and the equity tax credit programs,

will ensure the Province's economic and employment prospects continue to improve.

Spending Priorities:

At the same time as the Province has been implementing measures to ensure a competitive and sustainable tax regime,

we have also focused on priority spending. We have spent strategically in such areas as health, education and

assisting those in need. For example, spending on health care has increased approximately 25 per cent since 1995-1996,

a $125 million school construction and redevelopment program has been undertaken, and the Strategic Social Plan

is being implemented. In addition, Mr. Speaker, the Province has implemented the HST credit and the seniors credit,

both of which target relief to individuals and families with lower incomes.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MATTHEWS: We have maintained a balance between prudent spending in key areas which people have told us are

priorities and ensuring that we maintain a fiscal position which will enable us to complete, and to compete nationally

and internationally, and still provide quality services to our residents.

This is the

part in which the hon. member will be interested. It is entitled: Conclusion.

Mr. Speaker, we are seeing the benefits of the actions taken over the past few years. We will not sacrifice the

progress we have made. For all residents of this Province, current and future, we will strike the right balance

between investing in key areas of our economy and social programs and maintaining a responsible fiscal position.

We have been, and will continue to be, prudent in our spending and operate within our means. It is with this

resolve that we will be able to provide Newfoundlanders and Labradorians with the opportunity to reach the prosperity

of which this Province is capable.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: I expect to have about half an hour.

The first question I have for the minister is: In what province or on what planet are you living?

The minister's boom certainly does not match the gloom in this Province, I say to the Minister of Finance.

I can understand why he did not go out in the lobby today, in front of 500 or 600 people, and talk about the economy

of this Province when there are 600 or 900 people who are going to be affected by the policy that they have put

in place: a policy - the way they talk about it - that is going to reinvest in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

There is one reason only why that is being done; it is to create jobs in certain Liberal districts in the Province

of Newfoundland and Labrador. They are not creating new jobs. They are hoping, in my mind, that the people who

are in the positions in and around St. John's and the Northeast Avalon will not go, so they can create some jobs

in their districts for their friends. That is the bottom line with respect to that policy.

The minister talks about the Gross Domestic Product - not a true picture of what is being portrayed here, of what

is going on. We have the oil industry not giving a true picture of the real numbers of what is happening in the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador with respect to the Gross Domestic Product.

Also, he says, "Employment is now expected to remain stable at the 1999 level." Well, what an accomplishment,

to remain stable. I think the people of the Province are looking for new jobs, trying to stem the out-migration,

in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. That is what the minister should be standing in this House of Assembly

and saying: that we are creating jobs, not that we are holding the reins - cutting.

Here is something interesting. "Higher inflation rates, due to increased energy prices, will cause real personal

income and real retail trade to be slightly lower...." That is what he should be on his feet in this House

of Assembly for - what we have asked for, what the people in this Province have asked for in the past - for something

to be done with the cost of energy with respect to gasoline and home heating oil in particular.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: We have seniors in this Province today having to make a decision. Are they going to put food on

the table, or are they going to turn the thermostat up a bit? He has the gall to stand in this House of Assembly

and say things are rosy in the Province of Newfoundland and labrador. Shame, I say to the Minister of Finance.

Under Fiscal Outlook, "This Province has made substantial progress over the past few years to get its fiscal

house in order." It goes on to say, " This was achieved through a program of responsible fiscal management

and prudent spending."

I say to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador: Look out for more cuts, in particular in the health care in the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

He talks about equalization in this long-winded, say-nothing document. I say to the minister, he has to go up

and make a case to Ottawa. Talk is cheap. It will soon be time to do something about it, I say to the Minister

of Finance, to the Premier, and to the Cabinet on that side of the House of Assembly.

Tax Reform: He talks about a different method of determining provincial income tax. I remember, before the last

election and afterwards, when we had a policy in our manual where we were going to look at income tax, and cut

income tax, but what happened? It was ridiculed and mocked by members on that side of the House. What did they

do as soon as they were elected? They adopted one of our policies to try and do something with respect to income

tax.

Here is another good one. It says, "As a direct result, the 2000 Budget committed to the introduction of

a Venture Capital Tax Credit Program."

Again, what happened when that group - the Liberal Government was elected in 1989. In 1990, they cut almost the

exact same policy that was in place by the previous Administration at the time. It took them ten years to see

the light on that one, to try and help create jobs in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and hopefully

it will, but they are slow to learn. We have to repeat it and repeat it, for it to finally sink in.

Also, here they say government has reduced the payroll tax. Now, who introduced the payroll tax to the people

of Newfoundland and Labrador but this crowd on that side of the House? We were opposed to the payroll tax from

day one, and now they have reduced the payroll tax. They are trying to take credit for something they brought

in, in the first place.

The one that sickens me the most with respect to this is: the very first day the House of Assembly is open, the

Minister of Finance stands in his place and tries to create a rosy picture to deflect all the opposition that is

going on in this Province, in every nook and cranny.

Just listen to this. I mean, this is unreal. It says here, "For example, spending on health care has increased

approximately 25 % since 1995-96...." Now, what does that say? How much did they cut, back then?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Well, why don't they put out a few of the reports?

Mr. Speaker, do you see what they are doing? They are saying one thing all the time and doing another. That is

what they are at all the time, and they are trying to create this picture that everything is hunky-dory in the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. The gall to get up and say that they have increased spending on health

care by 25 per cent.

Mr. Speaker, as the minister has said, in conclusion, what I will say about this document that he presented here

today - the first words out of his mouth in this sitting of the House - is that there is nothing here; and this

Province, as long as that crowd is in place, has a long, long way to go with respect to the future of this Province

and anything for the people of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As usual, the government tries to paint a very rosy picture of its own efforts and the economy of the Province;

however, we have a very distorted picture here and it starts off even in the title. The minister calls it a Mid-Year

Financial Report. The last time I looked, December was a lot closer to the end of March than halfway through the

year.

We have not heard from this minister in months, and now we have a report which ignores the fact that the unemployment

rate in this Province is up by 1 per cent in the last month, up 2.2 per cent for women, standing at 17.6 per cent,

double the national average. He ignores that totally and instead claims that the employment rate will remain stable

at the 1999 level. That is a place where we do not want to be and it is a place where, to this government's shame,

we remain despite their number of years in office.

There are serious structural problems in this country that are not being addressed at all. We have one-quarter

of our children living below the poverty line and in need of school meal programs to get a decent bit of nutrition

in their day.

In looking at the fiscal outlook, in talking about gasoline taxes, gasoline tax is a serious concern. They are

worse now than they were last year. Taxes go up when the price goes up, a fact that the minister failed to acknowledge.

This government has done nothing to alleviate or relieve the consequences of high gasoline and, in particular,

home-heating costs in this Province. Six months ago we made public a proposal that would see a rebate to the consumers

of home-heating fuel, whether it be electricity or fuel oil in this Province, that would cost the same amount as

his income tax reform that he bragged about in his speech here but that would have provided immediate and direct

relief to the people of this Province who are suffering from high home-heating costs. That is something we want

this government to look at and do instead of the income tax changes.

On equalization, not only can we make equalization better; we have to stop the outrageous grab that comes from

the equalization formulas as they are applied right now. As was made public about a year ago by me, the Voisey's

Bay project, for example, if it were to go ahead under current rules, would give $4.9 billion to the Government

of Canada in fiscal revenues and only $412 million to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Under these circumstances,

interest in the future of the people of this Province.

The tax reform mentioned: I have dealt with tax reform, as was pointed out some months ago, benefits primarily

those who have higher incomes and does little or nothing for those who are at the lower end of the income scale.

In fact, they would benefit greatly from some relief in fuel taxes, particularly on home heat or electric heat

for their houses.

The tax reform plans, the Direct Equity Tax Credit: this is something that we need to have a serious look at, to

offer across the board a direct equity tax incentive or tax credits, would be a mistake without very careful analysis

of what programs apply and what programs do not. I know the legislation has been passed, but this is something

we need to have a careful look at, to make sure that this is not just an incentive or a tax break for monies that

would be spent and invested, in any case.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please.

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER TULK: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House today to announce government's intention to table

amendments to the Liquor Control Act later this week which will allow communities in the Electoral District of

Torngat Mountains control over the sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages.

In the past twelve months there have been a series of tragedies in Nain and other communities in the Electoral

District of Torngat Mountains, including more than a dozen suicides. A listening and healing process was set up

in the community of Nain to help residents cope and to try to find ways of dealing with the crisis. One theme

that emerged repeatedly was the need to give communities the ability to take control of their own destiny.

Today's statement is government's response to a request from the Labrador Inuit Association for local control over

the sale and consumption of alcohol in their communities. I am pleased to announce today that the amendments to

be tabled will provide the communities in the Torngat Mountains electoral district with the full range of power

and discretion that the Labrador Inuit Association has requested.

Mr. Speaker, the amendments will obligate the Province to heed the wishes of the residents of the communities,

as expressed by a decision of the town or community council on the matter. Town or community councils will be

responsible for undertaking appropriate consultations with Aboriginal organizations and other local interests.

Under the amendments, the Liquor Licensing Board will not issue a license to sell liquor in a community in the

Electoral District of Torngat Mountains when the town or community council has requested that the license be denied.

Similarly, the Liquor Licensing Board will cancel a license where a town or community council requests such cancellation.

Mr. Speaker, the amendments will ensure that communities who wish to be alcohol free have access to the tools necessary

to ban alcohol.

The Liquor Licensing Board will remain responsible for the issuance and cancellation of licenses, and enforcement

of liquor laws. However, it will take direction from the community in these matters. Through the town or community

councils, communities will be able to direct restriction of hours of sale, quantity of sales per person, and the

issuing, refusal or cancellation of licenses and permits.

Mr. Speaker, government remains committed to consulting with the Aboriginal people in Labrador, to help them solve

a problem which is obvious to all of us in this Province, and have created human problems, problems for children

especially, which need to be resolved. We remain committed to the Aboriginal people of this Province and responding,

where possible, with policies and programs which meet their needs.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Let me say, first of all, that the details of the legislation will become known to us when it is tabled. We do

not know exactly what it is, but I take the Premier at face value.

I want to say publicly today that we applaud, on this side of the House, the leaders within the Aboriginal community

for speaking out and requesting of government the assistance that they have sought for the protection of their

future, their children.

I want to ensure that community, and the people of the Province, that this side of the House, our party, the party

that I now lead, will do whatever we feel is in the best interests, with the government, in working through a plan,

both short-term and long-term, to see that the issues that community faces and dealing with, the community itself,

the leadership within the community, the families themselves - it would be an understatement to say that the problems

are severe. It would be an understatement to say that what is going to be required is a long-term approach, not

only with a great deal of understanding but of compassion, to deal with the protection of children in that community.

That is where the solution lies long term.

I will say to government that any initiative you decide to bring before this House, that in our view, and after

consultation obviously with people within those communities who will assist in bringing about a long-term solution

and assist in the short-term for the protection of children and the ultimate and overall well-being of the people

within that community, we will solidly and fully endorse.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We, too, will support any amendment or any proposal that would help alleviate what has been happening on the North

coast of Labrador. We think it is very important, as government, to give the tools to the people in those communities

the ability to look after what they consider to be the appropriate way of doing things. We have the responsibility

to do everything we can to assist them in that manner.

As a party, we supported the LIA on their request to government in the proposed amendment, and we issued a press

release on that last week demonstrating our support. The communities on the North coast of Labrador are best able

to decide what is suitable for their communities in dealing with the many problems they have experienced over the

last little while. Certainly, I think it is incumbent upon all of us in this House to do whatever we can to support

them in those efforts.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DICKS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to provide the House of Assembly with an update on the Churchill River Project.

First of all, I want to say that government is fully committed to working for an agreement that is in the overall

best interest of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DICKS: The Lower Churchill River Power Project is complex and will take time to arrive at an agreement that

meets this objective.

The proposed agreement is complex in terms of the economic, financial and environmental implications, and also

in terms of the Aboriginal interests and concerns that must be addressed and resolved. Having said that, Mr. Speaker,

much has been accomplished over the last two-and-one-half years. We have seen significant accomplishments both

in terms of the agreements we have reached to date and the value of the work invested in the future development

of the Lower Churchill.

Mr. Speaker, the resale of the 130 MW Recall to Hydro Quebec, the Guaranteed Winter Availability Contract between

CF(L)Co and Hydro Quebec, and the Churchill Falls (Labrador) Corporation Shareholders' Agreements provide significant

benefits to this Province.

What are the benefits? To date, since March 9, 1998, Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro has netted $68.5 million

in profits from the sale of the recall power, and anticipate additional profits of $1 billion from these sales

by the year 2041. In addition, the GWAC Agreement protects the financial viability of CF(L)Co and will provide

an estimated $1 billion in revenue to the Province over the term of this contract.

Both the GWAC and the CF(L)Co Shareholders' Agreement were necessary to ensure the long-term financial viability

of CF(L)Co specifically protecting the future viability of CF(L)Co and providing future benefits to the Province.

How do these agreements achieve this? First, the GWAC provides a cash infusion into the company of approximately

$1.5 billion. This will ensure that the company does not experience the cash deficiencies that would have occurred

starting in 2001 as a result of the terms of the original power contract.

Secondly, under the terms of the Shareholders' Agreement we have eliminated the potential for Hydro Quebec to gain

a majority ownership interest in the company when such cash shortfalls did occur. Previously, only Hydro Quebec

had the right to infuse cash in the company in return for shares. Now, under the Shareholders' Agreement, both

shareholders have the right, but not the obligation, to contribute cash to the company.

Thirdly, the revenues from GWAC and the establishment of a $75 million capital replacement reserve provide for

the future operational viability of the CF(L)Co facilities. Both shareholders are committed to maintaining these

facilities. Clearly, it is not a responsible or rationale strategy to suggest that we should allow the company

to go bankrupt. It is in the interest of the Province as a two-thirds owner to ensure that the plant is in sound

operational condition now, and until the year 2041. We will also benefit from the $1 billion which we have received

from GWAC.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, we have secured the future supply of the 225 MW Twinco block of power for the residents of

Labrador West. The terms of the original contract made the right to this power uncertain after the year 2014,

a short time from now. Under the Shareholders agreement, Hydro Quebec has waived its rights to this block of power.

These are all significant benefits. However, it is important to note that these agreements cannot and do not undo

or correct the inequities of the original 1969 contract. Instead, these agreements mitigate the inevitable effects

of the 1969 contract which threatened the future operational and financial viability of CF(L)Co and our continued

ownership of this valuable facility in Labrador. The alternative, to do nothing, would have been irresponsible.

I also note that the additional revenues received to date, approximately $75 million, from the Recall and GWAC

Agreements, is well in excess of the net costs of $34 million incurred to date in developing the Lower Churchill

Project.

In the meantime, Mr. Speaker, negotiation of the terms for development of the Lower Churchill have been ongoing.

Up to this time, extensive financial analysis, engineering, and environmental work have been undertaken. As is

the case with all projects of this magnitude, the initial project concept has evolved to reflect the results of

this work and the results of negotiations.

Gull Island was, and continues to be, the cornerstone of this project. This government is still committed to developing

the tremendous potential of the Gull Island site which is one of the best undeveloped hydroelectric resources remaining

in North America.

New transmission in Quebec and Labrador will be required to deliver the energy to the market. This element of

the project has not changed.

What has changed, however, is that we are currently considering a project which would involve Newfoundland and

Labrador owning all the generating and transmission facilities required in Labrador with an estimated capital expenditure

of approximately $4 billion. We are negotiating with Hydro Quebec to be a purchaser of power, not an equity partner

in the Labrador development.

The Quebec River diversions are no longer part of this project. In the context of increasing cost estimates and

environmental and Aboriginal concerns, Hydro Quebec has indicated these components will not be part of the project.

An optimization study of Gull Island, without the river diversions, has recently been undertaken. We are anticipating

a plant capacity of between 1700 and 2000 MW.

In addition to discussions on development of the Lower Churchill, we are in the process of negotiating the terms

for the resale of 130 MW recall power when the existing contract with Hydro Quebec expires in March 2001. All

options will be considered in maximizing the revenue to the Province from the sale of this power.

On a concurrent basis with the commercial negotiations, discussions with the Innu of Labrador have been ongoing

since March 1998. Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro and the Innu Nation have entered into a Process Agreement to

facilitate Innu participation in task force on engineering and environmental work, community consultations, and

discussions towards a future Impacts and Benefits Agreement. We are committed to ongoing consultation and discussion

with the Innu Nation so long as discussions for development of the project continue.

Our commitment to developing the project in an environmentally sound manner has not changed. Approximately $2.2

million has been spent on environmental work this year.

In

summary, Mr. Speaker, as is the case for any project of this magnitude, these are very complicated commercial

negotiations. In particular, negotiations of a long-term pricing arrangement has been made more complex in the

context of the market restructuring and price uncertainty which has occurred in the North East US markets. In

fact, this led to a pause in negotiations with Hydro Quebec over the summer, at which time we held preliminary

discussions with other potential customers. At the end of the summer, we agreed to resume negotiations with a

new project concept as I have outlined to you.

Hydro Quebec is a natural purchaser of the energy from Labrador given its adjacent transmission system. It makes

sense to try to get the right deal with Hydro Quebec. However, if we are unable to negotiate the right deal, we

will consider our other options. The people of this Province will be informed when decisions are made concerning

the project. However, we cannot negotiate in public.

I am confident this great resource potential in Labrador will be developed. Government and Newfoundland and Labrador

Hydro are committed to ensuring that the development occur under the right terms for the benefit of the people

of this Province.

Mr. Speaker, at this time I also wish to advise the House of Assembly that government has written the Board of

Directors of CF(L)Co and Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro, asking that they consider publicly releasing the CF(L)Co

Shareholders Agreement, Guaranteed Winter Availability Contract and the 130 MW Recall Agreements, if it is appropriate

to do so at this time.

The documents to which I refer have received the approval of the Boards of Directors of both CF(L)Co and NLH.

These are comprised of well-known, respected and experienced members of the business community. They have very

strong business backgrounds. The Hydro Board includes: Mark Dobbin, Barbara Fong, Terry Goodyear, William Kelly,

Dean MacDonald, Brian Maynard, Trudy Pound-Curtis, Deborah Thiel, Wayne Trask and William Wells. The CF(L)Co Board

includes: David Collett, Albert Hickman, Dean MacDonald, Len Stirling, Bob Warr, William Wells and Victory Young,

all well-known, established and respected members of our community.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, the fact that these boards have reviewed and approved these documents is perhaps the strongest

evidence that they are in the best interest of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I want to assure this House that government will honor the decision of the boards on these matters.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I must apologize to the people in the gallery. This is cruel and unusual punishment

today, long-winded statements designed to deprave Question Period, so people can get an answer to what questions

there are, but I would like to respond directly to it.

Let's go back to March, 1998, a $1.5 million press conference in Churchill about the development of the Lower Churchill.

Two of the big reasons that we were going forward on this project, as said by the former Premier, were: Number

one, that Hydro-Quebec had agreed finally to divert the Romaine River and St-Jean Rivière into the Smallwood

reservoir down into the Lower Churchill, that would bring more power to Newfoundland and Labrador at the end of

the construction project. Secondly, he said that as a result of that diversion, as a result of that extra water

going through, there was going to be in excess of $600 million to reconstruct new generators or construct new generators

to handle the additional capacity. On top of that, Quebec Hydro had agreed that they would finance - all of them,

their own cost - the construction of the transmission line from the project to the Quebec border.

Now, what happened after that? We have spent in excess of $50 million of the public's money. We have entered

into two agreements that this crowd here will not release or will not make public. The minister says he has asked

the board to reconsider, or to consider, a request to make it public; but it will not happen, and here is why:

because this government gave up control of CF(L)Co. We have eight directors on the board of CF(L)Co. Two Quebec

directors can override the other six directors' decisions. It will not happen, Minister. You know it. You are

posturing. It is a sham. Why don't you even admit that today?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Secondly, listen to this line. The minister says in his statement, with respect to GWAC, that we

have realized $68.5 million in profits from the sale of the recall power. How much of that has gone into the provincial

economy in terms of hiring more nurses, more doctors, more social workers? Not much.

Here is the real line. It says: ...and we anticipate additional profits of $1.0 billion from these sales by 2041.

Guess what? This agreement expires next March. The minister said, in an interview between myself and him - and

I can only go by what he said - that next March that agreement expires -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: I have the transcript, Paul, so if you would like me to read it to you, I can.

- but then we will have to renegotiate with Hydro-Quebec.

I said to him: What happens if Hydro-Quebec does not want to enter into that agreement? We will have to find somebody

else, he said.

So, an anticipated extra $1 billion is like saying: I anticipate that I am going to win $10 million tomorrow if

I buy the right lottery ticket. Well, folks, I have not won it yet and we do not have that $1 billion, I say to

the minister.

Finally - he knows we do not; they all know we do not - if you are so confident and so concerned that we were wrong,

table the agreements and show us we were wrong.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Table them right now in the House. You will not do it!

This is a decision that they made. They said they would update people on a regular, systematic basis. These decisions

have been made. These agreements have been entered into. Why can't you table them? Why won't you table them?

That is the big question that is on people's minds today. What did we get after spending $50 million of the public's

money to enter into a framework agreement with Hydro-Quebec? What did we get? Not very much. I know what Hydro-Quebec

got. They got the company CF(L)Co, veto power over all its decisions; they have the company solvent, and the actual

money that we are getting will keep that solvent, and that is about it. That is what you, your government, and

the great negotiating team were able to accomplish.

I will say this to the minister today, and I will reissue my call to the new Premier, to the Minister of Finance

and any other minister, because they have all seen - especially the leadership candidates have had a bit of a conversion

about being more accountable and being more open.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. E. BYRNE: Table the agreements and let the public see for themselves. If we are wrong, I will stand up and

apologize. If you are wrong, you stand up and apologize.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This government and this minister not only has egg on his face; he has an omelette pouring down over his shirt

and onto his pants.

When this deal was announced, there was more power from Quebec rivers, there was an in-feed to the Island, there

was the Quebec Hydro to put up the financing for the transmission line. There was a partner and a customer. Now

we have no in-feed, no Quebec power, no transmission line, no partner, no customer; in effect, no deal. If we

believe this minister, we have had no deal since last May. His only answer was: Well, nobody asked.

Of course, if you believe the former Premier, we had some deal on the go until October - I forget what date he

said the first time - but this minister says not since last May.

Mr. Speaker, all we have left is two agreements with Hydro-Quebec, neither of which have been made public. What

we do understand is that these deals were part of the full range of development. What I think, and the people

of this Province think and know, is that Quebec Hydro does not give anything away. They made this deal because

it was part of a bigger deal, and I would like to know, and the people of this Province need to know, what is in

those deals.

To suggest that he will ask them to consider something - the Board of Directors of two companies that are owned,

in one case wholly by this Province and in another case substantially by this Province - is unacceptable. These

deals must be made public. The people of this Province need to know what is in those deals. We have a right to

understand what this government has done on behalf of the people of this Province.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TULK: Mr. Speaker, some people say this is a secretive government. Some people say this government hides

information. Some say this government is not operating in a transparent manner.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TULK: Mr. Speaker, I am rising in the House today to say that this is not true.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TULK: A good judge of a government's openness is the way it treats information requested under the Freedom

of Information legislation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TULK: People may not realize that the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador - albeit, it was a former

PC government - was a pioneer in providing access to government information in the early 1980s when it introduced

the Freedom of Information Act. This act places very few limits on the release of information other than those

needed to protect private citizens, the integrity of legal matters, the competitive position of private companies,

and confidential Cabinet material.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TULK: From December 1, 1999 to November 1, 2000, 225 Freedom of Information requests were received by the

Province. In about 70 per cent of those cases, applicants were provided with the information they requested.

In about 20 per cent of those cases, the information requested did not exist, was subject to referrals to third

parties, or was withdrawn. Information was denied in about 10 per cent of all cases.

AN HON. MEMBER: Now, do you hear that?.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER TULK: Where information was denied in accordance with the act, it was because the information requested

had implications relating to the competitive position of companies, involved legal investigations, related to matters

under federal-provincial negotiations, dealt with consultations among ministers and between ministers and Executive

Council, or was under consideration by Cabinet.

Mr. Speaker, this government is confident that the act is working well, but we also acknowledge that there have

been major changes to the act since it was enacted in 1981.

While the act was considered a pioneering piece of legislation at the time, in the past twenty years there have

been major changes in the way we manage information, and even the creation of new forms of communication like e-mail

and voice mail. These types of communication were not even contemplated when the act was passed.

This government has no intention of hiding behind legislation. We are committed to an open, transparent process

in the development and implementation of public policy, and we want to ensure our legislation remains clear and

relevant in this new age of information.

Mr. Speaker, that is why I am announcing today that government will undertake a review of the act and our approach

to its implementation. I have asked the Minister of Justice to consider how the review should be undertaken, including

the possible structure, mandate and timing of a review. As a particular priority of this review, I am asking that

options for an appeal process be considered as well as the appropriateness of the fee structures under the act.

I have instructed the minister to report back before the House closes so that the review can commence before the

new year.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, in the seven years that I have sat in this Assembly I have seen some weird and woolly

things, but this takes the cake.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: This is a government where the Premier rises and says: I am rising in the House today to say this

is not true, ladies and gentlemen. It is not true. We are a government that provides information.

Let me give you some examples. I recall, for four years running, requesting that this minister - the new transparent,

the Hallmark man, the new Christmas card in the House of Assembly - release the Atkinson Report. Each and every

time, he said: No.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: No, he did not.

I recall writing the Minister of Environment and Labour, seeking information on the Province's water supply. He

said: Yes, you can have it, but we are going to charge you $10,000 to get it. That is what he said.

I wrote the minister - this minister, when he was another minister - about the Lower Churchill. Do you know what

he wrote back? He referred me to his press releases on Newfoundland Information Services.

I wrote the current Premier on August 16, and on October 30, I got his response. I asked him directly - which

I will, in Question Period today, and we will see how open and transparent and what their newfound philosophy is

like - I asked him, could he provide me with the information on the consultant reports that led government to make

a decision to move 217 people around different places on the Island. I asked him to provide the bureaucracy's

economic analysis of why this was a good decision. Do you know what he wrote back? I will quote it: Except for

items 6 and 7 in your letter, the particulars of this matter were prepared for Cabinet consideration and used for

consultation among ministers. Accordingly, access to related information is denied under

section 9.1.

This is a Premier who has the audacity to stand today and tell the people of the Province: We are not a government

that hides anything.

These reports are done - if, in fact, there are any reports - and the public have a right to know. You have no

right to deny them.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier opened his statement with, "...some people say this is a secretive government." To that

growing list of people have recently been added the Minister of Health and Community Services and the Minister

of Mines and Energy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARRIS: It is very difficult to take seriously what the minister has read with a very difficult straight face

here today in the House of Assembly.

The Freedom of Information Act is more likely known in this Province as the suppression of information act, information

which the people of this Province, political parties and citizens of this Province have a right to know to be able

to conduct their business and to carry out their functions in the House of Assembly and elsewhere.

The minister is now talking about a review process. In Nova Scotia, there is a Newfoundlander who is a review

commissioner who hears up to 300 reviews in a year. This obviously ought to be part of our legislation, the introduction

of an ombudsperson for the (inaudible). These things have to happen, and they have to happen now.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

Before I recognize the hon. minister, I would like to welcome to the gallery today the hon. Gerry Byrne, Member

of Parliament for Humber St. Barbe-Baie Verte.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology.

MS KELLY: Thank you very much.

Mr. Speaker, today I am speaking as the Minister Responsible for Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

I am pleased to update my hon. colleagues today on government's efforts to have the Main River designated as a

Canadian Heritage River. Together with my hon. colleague, the Minister of Forest Resources and Agrifoods, and

stakeholders groups, including Corner Brook Pulp and Paper Limited, we have completed a draft management plan for

the Main River which will form the basis for obtaining Canadian Heritage River status.

Attaining this status for the Main River will be a significant step toward protecting and preserving a portion

of the Main River watershed, especially its natural heritage features, and will also be an important part of the

solution to some of the other issues surrounding the Main River watershed.

The package includes a detailed approach to managing the protected area corridor and a draft Stewardship Agreement

between key stakeholder groups. As a step toward achieving Canadian Heritage River designation, the provincial

government proposes to establish a Provincial Waterway Park in the corridor of the Main River, and also proposes

to designate the remainder of the viewshed as a Special Management Area, thereby providing additional protection

to the Provincial Waterway Park.

An innovative approach is being suggested to manage the activities of industry and government outside the Waterway

Park and the Stewardship Agreement has been drafted to ensure that activities outside the protected area do not

cause negative impacts inside the protected area.

By accomplishing Heritage River status we will also contribute to the protection of the Pine Marten and old growth

forest, as well as provide a unique and outstanding tourism attraction and ecotourism opportunities which will

bring economic benefits to the surrounding area, as visitors from around the world come to experience the natural

beauty of Main River.

The package clearly addresses the most critical Main River issues, including the protection of the view scape,

protection of the endangered Pine Marten population in the watershed area, and road decommissioning in the viewshed.

In addition to Heritage River issues, government is also addressing several parallel issues.

First of all, government has created a committee consisting of the Department of Forest Resources and Agrifoods,

Corner Brook Pulp and Paper and Gros Morne National Park to address the ecological integrity of Gros Morne.

Secondly, government is committed to identifying an ecological reserve north of the Main River to include a large

and representative portion of old growth forest.

Thirdly, new discussions have been initiated with area outfitters and Corner Brook Pulp and Paper to address concerns

related to the impact of harvesting plans on outfitting.

We are now prepared to receive and review public input into the draft management plan and, as such, tomorrow, December

5, and the next day, December 6, 2000, there will be public open houses in Pollard's Point and Corner Brook respectively,

where the management plan will be explained and comments received. Government will accept comments up to December

18 of this year on the document.

Mr. Speaker, as my colleagues are aware, this government is committed to successfully attaining Canadian Heritage

River designation for Main River, and we are confident that this management plan will meet the natural and recreational

goals of the Canadian Heritage River program in a manner which fairly and reasonably balances industry's needs

and the need to protect our natural heritage.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say to the minister today that we would certainly agree with having the river declared

a Canadian Heritage River. We have absolutely no problem with that. The only problem I have with your statement,

Minister, and your words, is: Are we going to consult all the stakeholders in Newfoundland and Labrador? I do

not mean a meeting in a week or so. Are we going to talk to private citizens throughout the Province, or is this

going to be another finance deal where we get them all on computer, they type in their questions, and somewhere

down life's road we get an answer?

I say to you today, Minister, as long as all the stakeholders in this Province are consulted, as long as experts

are involved who will determine the goals of what we trying to accomplish here - and every citizen in this Province

who wishes to have input into the Main River - and as long as you, as minister, and this government are going to

allow the time and energy, and allow these people reasonable time to make presentations to the government, then

and only then will we consider this to be something very worthwhile. Unless every stakeholder in this Province

is given the time and the opportunity to make submissions, then that is the only way this can work and be acceptable

to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The government was so committed to getting the Canadian Heritage River status for the Main River that it waited

seven years before it came up with a management plan. This plan does not adequately address the issues raised

by the pine marten recovery team in a letter to the Minister of Forest Resources and Agrifoods on May 26. It fails

to address, beyond the tourism issues of the river itself, the issues of the whole ecosystem. It fails to address

the 12 per cent commitment that this government made to have set aside 12 per cent of the land mass by the year

2000, as part of natural heritage. It fails to provide an opportunity, outside of tomorrow and the next day, or

up until December 18, for input from across the Province. It fails to take into consideration all the concerns

around this Province about the Main River that recently have been talked about publicly in the press, in the media,

in the scientific and academic community, and the tourism community.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. HARRIS: This decision ought not to be made without an opportunity for full public knowledge and information.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TULK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I stand today to provide this House with the first in a series of updates regarding the implementation

of government's regionalization initiative which was announced on July 27.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TULK: What I want to make quite clear is that this government remains committed to this policy initiative.

Some of these organizations are being relocated to put the service closer to the people they serve. There are

also organizations which can, through the use of modern communication technology, effectively operate from any

location in the Province and by doing this we can distribute the economic benefits of government. The need to

centralize for decision-making and communication has been diminished in the new age of technology.

Added to those factors is the reality that the economy of the Avalon region is growing at a significant pace.

The divisions are being moved to regional centers and these communities and the surrounding areas will benefit.

The communities have embraced this policy decision and are eagerly anticipating the full implementation of regionalization.

Government continues to work with our employees who are impacted by this policy. Yes, we are firm on our commitment

to relocate 275 positions. However, we are equally firm in our desire to treat our employees in a fair and reasonable

manner. As a result of our efforts, today the number of employees whose circumstances remain unresolved has declined

to 193.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to inform this House that these employees are now being given priority consideration

for approximately 160 job competitions within the public service. We expect that number to increase as the process

continues and as additional vacancies come forward, they will continue to receive priority. We are working now

to match employees who are unable to relocate into as many of these positions as possible.

This government had previously announced an enhanced benefits and support package for our employees. That included

increased supports for employees who relocated such as a Home Equity Assistance Program, house hunting trip for

the entire family, a return trip to close out any personal business, and $1,000 to cover miscellaneous expenses.

There were also options for employees who were unable to relocate including redeployment, voluntary departure,

voluntary relocation, and career counselling services.

I am announcing today an additional enhanced employee benefit related to regionalization. Government is prepared

to provide annual salary assistance up to a maximum of $5,000 to employees who have an opportunity to move into

a lower-paying position in the public service.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say, I think it was on Thursday, we notified the union, NAPE, on this issue. They

probably have not had time to reply to us yet, but as soon as they reply, if they give us their go ahead, we will

implement it.

We have also broadened the requirements for the voluntary departure program to attract more interest and thereby

create more opportunities.

These extra initiatives are in direct response to concerns being expressed by employees and it will see more employees

who are unable to relocate find another suitable position within government.

Through this regionalization policy, we have been provided with a unique and exciting opportunity in Corner Brook.

I am pleased to advise this House that government will be making an investment into the Corner Brook Campus of

the College of the North Atlantic to provide for the necessary laboratory infrastructure.

The college's Corner Brook campus is establishing itself as a centre of excellence for natural resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER TULK: With the Department of Forestry and Agrifoods having a presence at this campus, we will be able to

build relationships with the faculty and students and share expertise. It will create a critical mass in the natural

resources sector and enhance the college's centre of excellence.

It will also provide us with the opportunity to provide the employees of our wildlife branch with state-of-the-art

lab facilities, moving them out of a building in Pleasantville that can only be described as obsolete.

I would also like to inform this House today that after a comprehensive review, it has been decided that the Animal

Health Lab and its five employees will remain in St. John's. Since the lab deals with diseased animals, it raised

environmental concerns. It is appropriate to keep the lab in close proximity to the post-mortem building and its

incinerator and we have adjusted that part of the plan.

Mr. Speaker, this policy has not been without its critics; but those critics have focused their criticisms on the

cost of implementing this policy. Even some of our critics, including the President of NAPE, recognizes the merits

of this policy initiative. In fact, Mr. Hanlon, in a letter to me on November 20, 2000, proposes a mechanism for

implementing this policy. His alternative proposal, however, in the opinion of government, is just not feasible.

We are saying the costs will be significantly lower than what has been put forward by NAPE. The union has been

inflating their estimates to discredit this policy. Our estimates continue to be refined as the process unfolds

and final figures will not be known until employees have made their decisions and tenders for capital improvements

have been awarded. We are also involved in commercial negotiations at this time.

Mr. Speaker, I am making a commitment here today. Once the final figure is known, I will provide this House with

a full accounting of the implementation costs associated with this initiative.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TULK: Mr. Speaker, government firmly believes this is a sound policy decision. The benefit of moving government

services to areas outside of St. John's cannot be overstated. We will be putting government jobs into these areas.

These employees will need homes, food, clothing - the necessities of life. The economy of those areas will see

improvement as there will be spinoffs. These people will contribute to and enjoy the social and cultural characteristics

of these communities.

How can anyone say that there will not be a positive impact on the local economies by putting sixty-three jobs

into Grand Falls-Windsor or 100 jobs in Corner Brook or creating centres of excellence across the Province? It

will be beneficial in the same manner as the creation of 1,000 jobs in St. John's by Convergys call centre. It

will and that is why we are doing this, and at the same time we continue and will continue to lessen the impact

on our employees.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, regionalization or decentralization of government services is not a new concept. It

has been done by governments in the Province in the past, but they have done it a little bit differently. We had

no understanding that this was coming.

This government sought a mandate in 1999, and nowhere was it mentioned. In the Throne Speech last year, was there

an indication from this government that this was a concept that they were pursuing? Did they outline for the people

of the Province that this was a concept they were looking at seriously, that they were going to engage NAPE, that

they were going to engage the public service, that they were going to engage the public generally to get their

view on it? No, we did not hear that. Did we see from this government any preparation whatsoever before this

announcement was made? No.

The Premier stands in the House today and says the final figures are not known; yet his former boss, who is now

the federal Member for Bonavista-Trinity-Conception, was quick to say that our estimated cost on this - back in

July he said this - was between $5 million and $7 million. That is what he said.

Now, the questions have been asked. Where were the studies? Are they available? Did government ask a senior

group of public servants whom they trusted and who worked for them, to put together a briefing paper on what services

could be moved to better serve the Province as part of an economic development strategy? No. Their response to

that is, trust me; we won't release it.

When asked about those reports, were there any outside consultants' reports related to this initiative that recommended

to government and to Cabinet that they do this? We asked for it. No, Mr. Speaker, nothing forthcoming.

When asked directly about what costs would be associated with such a move, the response has been: No, NAPE's figures

are wrong, the Official Opposition's figures are wrong, and you have to believe me when I say that they are wrong

- because that is all they are saying. They will not produce one shred of evidence on what the estimated cost

will be. Do you know why? Because it doesn't exist. This was a political decision. This was not a decision

made in the best interests of the people of the Province, certainly not for the people who are going to move.

This was not a decision made to enhance public services throughout the region. If it was, an entirely different

approach would have been taken, one that we have just outlined. This was a political decision, Mr. Speaker, a

decision made to enhance the Liberal Party of Newfoundland and Labrador, not the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: That is what has gone on here.

Mr. Speaker, if they did move in the right direction, and if this decision was so beneficial, they would be laying

on the table now study after study: here is the economic analysis; here is the study that shows services will be

impacted; here is how we are going to achieve it. There are forty or fifty employees who will not be able to move

for two years because they are going to retire soon, so we will achieve that through attrition. None of that took

place.

What is evident, Mr. Speaker, in the last couple of days, is that the only thing transparent that is emerging from

this government is their contempt for the public of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The hon. Leader of the Opposition wasted paper and ink in writing to the Premier, under the Freedom of Information

Act, looking for reports, consultations, analyses and studies on the program of regionalization announced July

27. The reason he did not get it was not because of the government's failure to respond to the Freedom of Information

Act. It was, in fact, because they did not exist. The studies were never done, unless one can find one on the

back of an envelope somewhere where it was discussed before a Cabinet meeting held in July.

Mr. Speaker, this plan and the announcement made today is really proof positive that this was not thought out and

no consideration was given to the needs of the employees, indeed no consideration given at all to what would happen

to these employees, or indeed caution was thrown to the wind with respect to cost.

Mr. Speaker, it is incumbent upon this government to provide a guarantee today, not to say there are 193 people

left to sort out, but to provide a guarantee today that this plan - if they insist on proceeding with it, despite

all the opposition, despite the inadequacies of the analysis - that they must provide a guarantee to the 278 employees

and their families, that they will not suffer as a result of this government's decision.

If they were to do that, they could take their time. They could find a way of doing it. They could relocate people.

They could come up with other plans and programs until people fill in positions. Nobody would object to that,

but they have to provide a guarantee that they will not disrupt the lives and income of the employees of the government,

which they have so far being callously ignoring.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is obviously for the Premier today. Three senior Cabinet ministers who have declared themselves, Premier,

as candidates to succeed you have made statements about how: a hallmark of my government would be that we need

to be more accountable, re-institution of the Ombudsman, all accountability features - transparency - and in particular

they say government studies, government reports, agreements, and any material relating to a decision made by government

or a government agency should be released to the public fully and promptly; their words, your colleagues.

Virtually every member of your Cabinet has been at their press conferences - although for some, none. I look across

the aisle and every one of those people are in their places, right here today. As of last week, in my view, the

policy of your government on accountability has changed, Sir.

Now, let me ask you what I asked you on August 16 with respect to the regionalization move. Will you and your

government, in accordance with your Cabinet colleagues and their conversion about more accountability and more

openness, release all of the information that I requested and was denied by you? Will you release all of the information

that the media requested and was denied by you? Your signature is here. Will you release all of the information

that other municipalities and other people and unions requested and was denied by you? Will you release that information

now?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TULK: Mr. Speaker, let me say to the hon. gentleman today that, under the present Freedom of Information

Act, he has what information was available under that Freedom of Information Act.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

PREMIER TULK: Oh, yes. Let me say -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TULK: Mr. Speaker, let me say to him that what he is witnessing is what the act says should happen. There

has been no contravention of the Freedom of Information Act by this government, there will not be any contravention

of the Freedom of Information Act by this government, and we are today announcing and have announced a review of

the Freedom of Information Act to say, if there are changing circumstances that need to be addressed, we will review

the Freedom of Information Act. We will put in place a process, if necessary, of appeal. We will look at the

whole situation and we will provide what is necessary. That is no different, I say to the hon. gentleman, from

what any of my colleagues on this side of the House have said.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: According to the Premier, this issue is done. The decision is made; government is moving on. That

means all of the studies, if there are any, are now open to the public. You cannot hide behind the act. You have

the absolute discretion to table that information; yet, you will not do it, Sir. You have the absolute discretion.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Let me ask the Minister of Health, now that you are a leadership candidate and you have made a statement

about how a hallmark of your administration will be openness, do you support that decision or will you stand in

your place today and provide some straight talk to this Legislature and say your support changing and tabling that

information?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TULK: Mr. Speaker, let me say to the Leader of the Opposition that he has never heard from anybody's mouth,

except his own, that there were reports, that there were consultants' reports done. He has never heard that from

any member on this side of the House. He certainly has never heard it from me. As a matter of fact, what he did

hear from me when I was the Minister of Development and Rural Renewal was that I believe that we had competent

public servants who had been involved in this when his own party was in power and moving the Department of Forestry

to Corner Brook in 1984. They had been involved in that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TULK: Here is what I said to him, if he is listening. We believe that those people were quite capable

of making recommendations to government, and they did make those recommendations to government. They made them

to the Cabinet of this Province and, as such, under the Freedom of Information Act, that material is supposed to

be kept confidential.

If, under a review that we put in place, that comes out to say that Cabinet materials - which I doubt, to be frank

with you - have to be given to the hon. gentleman, then he will receive them. As of today, everything that was

asked for under the Freedom of Information Act, that was involved in this process, that was available and not protected

by Cabinet secrecy, was made available to the gentleman.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible) simply not true. Now we have the Minister of Health on the record, that he is not going

to say anything.

I will ask the Minister of Mines and Energy - according to his philosophy, if you do not ask any questions they

are not going to give you any information anyway. That is why we ask the questions, Premier, of you and your government.

I would like to ask him: Do you support government's decision? You talked about being more open, more accountable,

more transparent, releasing studies. Do you support the release of information pertaining to this issue? If you

do, stand up and say so.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TULK: Mr. Speaker -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TULK: Isn't this a very interesting exercise? The Leader of the Opposition walks into this House today

with great concern about how we were treating public servants in this Province. Instead of that, what he is attempting

to do now is play a kind of politics that I say is beneath him.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

PREMIER TULK: Let me just say this to him: The people on this side of the House are honorable enough that when

they disagree with government policy they will tender their resignation to the Premier, as they should. There

is no disagreement, I say to the hon. gentleman, on this side of the House on this issue and on whether or not

we are fulfilling our obligations under the Freedom of Information Act. We are, and we will continue to do so.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: What is very clear is the pattern that is all too familiar to the people of the Province: that in

Liberal campaigns, even internal ones, (inaudible) the public, will say anything to get themselves elected and

do something completely opposite afterwards.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: That is what is familiar here. That is what is very clear.

Let me say this to the Premier. There is no reason to hide the information. The Cabinet has made its decision.

You, yourself, have reaffirmed it again here today. You said it is over and done with. The people have every

right to see on what basis - the information, internal studies, consultants' reports, departmental reviews, cost

analysis, et cetera. There is no question even under the current act, no matter how much you protest, that they

have every right to it. The question is: Why do you deny them that right, and what gives you the right to deny

them?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TULK: Mr. Speaker, it seems to me that the Leader of the Opposition must have some weird dreams at night.

He is over there dreaming about consultants' reports, reviews, when I have said to him on a dozen different occasions

that what was done here is that we consulted with the senior public service of this Province who had experience

MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible).

PREMIER TULK: You can read what you like. You will probably twist it to suit yourself.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TULK: I listened to him, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if he could extend the same courtesy.

The truth of the matter is that this government had discussions with the senior civil servants, senior public servants,

and then made a presentation. There were at least two Cabinet meetings, maybe more, but at least two Cabinet meetings

in which presentations, prepared for Cabinet, were given to the Cabinet and the decision was made. The policy

decision was made to relocate people out of St. John's.

Now let me say one other thing to the Leader of the Opposition: No, the costs are not firm because we are -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) said it was.

PREMIER TULK: No, I did not. I said it was an estimate. All I have said is that this is an estimate.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

PREMIER TULK: Yes, they are important, and you should recognize what is being said.

They are estimates that were put together by the Public Service of this Province. As a matter of fact, one of

them was quoted in the paper as saying those are the estimates. If the hon. gentleman remembers, it was back in

The Telegram.

One of the things that we have undertaken in this regionalization policy is to implement it in such a way - we

will do whatever is possible to alleviate some hardships which people may be suffering. We started in July, went

beyond the Collective Agreement -

AN HON. MEMBER: It happened in 1984.

PREMIER TULK: No, it did not happen in 1984. As a matter of fact, a Minister of the Crown at the time said: What

are they complaining about? They are only hired hands. That was a comment which came from that side of the House,

that party over there.

Mr. Speaker, what we have done - and we are still, I say to the hon. gentleman, putting in place and working through

a clearing house, working with senior civil servants, working with human resources directors and working with people

directly.

I had a meeting this morning with the President of NAPE, Mr. Hanlon, who pointed out to me that he believes there

were vacancies being hidden by some people in the Civil Service. I asked him, and I mean this sincerely, to put

them on the table if he has them because I cannot find them. If he can, I will deal with it; and I will see that

those vacancies are given to the people who might be able to move into them, rather than moving.

The costs are there, and the costs are increasing; but let me say one other thing to the Leader of the Opposition:

the costs are clear enough, of what is involved there, that it will not be $25 million, which has been suggested

by some people, neither will it be half of $25 million.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Five months have passed, almost five months since this decision was made. He tells us in his ministerial statement

that he cannot give us figures because they are not finalized yet. Then he stands up and tells us that they are

not going to be $25 million. Which is it? Which is it, Premier?

I will ask a question, Mr. Speaker. On August 16 I wrote him and made five requests. There was seven but five

he denied. I asked about consultants' reports and economic analysis. He said these particulars were prepared

for Cabinet consideration. He did not say they did not exist. He said they were prepared for Cabinet consideration

and used for consultation among ministers for the purpose of government decision-making. Accordingly, access to

this information is denied under

section 91 of the Freedom of Information Act.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a Supplementary, I ask him to get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: I ask you again - the decision is made. It is history according to you, not according to everybody

else, but according to you. You reaffirmed it today. Release the analysis on which you made the decision. If

you can, release it. I bet you cannot.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier

PREMIER TULK: Mr. Speaker, let me say to the hon. gentleman again: every piece of information that should have

been made available under the Freedom of Information Act was made available to him.

As I have said to the hon. gentleman before, there were reports to Cabinet, made for Cabinet by senior public servants

in the Province. That is Cabinet material, I say to the hon. gentleman. If he does not know it he probably never

will; but that is Cabinet material. That is not how it works, Mr. Speaker. There is a Freedom of Information

Act which says: materials prepared for Cabinet are not subject to the Freedom of Information Act. I have said

to him that the reports were made for Cabinet, and that is where it sits.

Let me just say this to him, as we progress through trying to help and create centres of excellence in this Province

- I am going to ask him, and he had better stand up and say whether he is for or against the policy. Everybody

else have said they are for it; I have not heard him say anything.

AN HON. MEMBER: Where have you been?

PREMIER TULK: Oh, yes, I know he does not. On the one hand he says: Yes, I am for it; but then on the other hand:

No, I am not for it. Like the statement he made to the people out here today who have concerns: dividing people

of this Province (inaudible). Now that is the kind of remark that does nothing for this Province, that does nothing

for the people of this Province, that does nothing for the people affected, because there is no intent and there

has never been any intent. As far as I know, it is only in the mind of one individual in this Province, that we

are trying to divide the people and trying to divide communities. I think the City of St. John's is a beautiful

place to be and a beautiful place to live, and this government is showing its commitment to this city.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TULK: This morning my colleague, the Minister of Municipal Affairs, announced - was it $1.9 million extra

for the Civic Center? Yes, Mr. Speaker, a cost overrun because we believe it is the appropriate thing to do, but

we also believe you have to share the wealth in this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier has said publicly in this Chamber, for everyone to hear, that any and all information that could be

released was released. If I can infer from what he said, that there were no consultant's reports.

Let me ask him this question: On what basis did you make the analysis that this was the right thing to do? On

what basis did government proceed without any economic analysis, without any major studies within the Province,

or within the bureaucracy, to see that these services should be moved and the most appropriate way to move them?

On what basis did you make the decision?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TULK: I do not know how many times I have to rub it in. I have said to the hon. gentleman on numerous

occasions that the government relied upon the expertise of the Public Service of this Province.

AN HON. MEMBER: They weren't involved.

PREMIER TULK: They were involved. I say to the hon. gentleman, they were involved in presentations to Cabinet.

On what basis did we make the decision? We make the decision on three or four principles, and the principles

are these: First of all, you can communicate from any part of this Province, therefore you do not have to have

centralized services like you did twenty-five years ago.

We also believe that in certain areas of the Province we can create a critical mass for centers of excellence;

like in the case of Corner Brook, that I outlined for the hon. gentleman today. We also believe that you should

spread the wealth and try to keep this culture that we have, called Newfoundland and Labrador, alive.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER TULK: I have heard people say: What is this going to do for rural Newfoundland? Well, we are going to

have sixty-three positions in Grand Falls-Windsor. Would somebody suggest to me that somebody will not drive an

hour to work, to Grand Falls, so that some of the smaller outlying communities will have some jobs? Would somebody

suggest to me that somebody in Gambo will not drive to Gander, or somebody in Gander Bay will not drive to Gander?

Would somebody suggest that people who live on the outskirts of Corner Brook would not enjoy the morning drive

to Corner Brook, up that beautiful valley to go to work? Is that what he is suggesting? Is that what the critics

of this program are suggesting?

The truth of the matter is the hon. gentleman is trying to hang the welfare of rural Newfoundland, outside of St.

John's on: How much is the cost? Are you one cent over, two or three?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Desperate, Mr. Speaker. Isn't it a fact that this initiative was dreamed up by the very planning

and priorities committee of Cabinet, with the former Premier, which you were a part of, to cover up and in some

way attempt to hide the dismal economic development record of your government? That is what is going on here,

Mr. Speaker. Isn't that a fact?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Isn't it a fact that the positions - nobody knew it was coming. The senior bureaucracy were not

involved. You can say they were, I will say they were not because I know they were not. If they came out and

said so publicly today you would have their heads; and their backsides would be going through the front doors of

this place, Premier.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary, I ask him to get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: I ask the Premier: Isn't it a fact that the only reason this was done was because it was dreamed

up by P and P of Cabinet, supported by the ministers who are getting jobs, and, in fact, all it is doing is trying

to cover up the abysmal record of you and your government for economic development in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TULK: Mr. Speaker, I suppose the hon. gentleman would stand on the other side and say that in 1984, when

a Tory administration moved people to Corner Brook, that too, was for politics.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

PREMIER TULK: No, Mr. Speaker. Let me say to him, this is not the only thing that government has done for rural

Newfoundland, to try to create some industry, to try to pick a Province that in 1992 - as he knows and I know -

found itself at the steps of almost annihilation. The people of Bonavista know what it means.

MR. J. BYRNE: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TULK: Let me tell the hon. gentleman that, indeed, some people in his district might be working at some

of those things. Let me say to the hon. gentleman that last week myself and the Minister of Development, for example,

met with the Mayor of Bonavista - and I asked her not to say anything about it until after the election because

I didn't want it to become a political football at the time. I said: We will put together a group of people to

come out and help the people of Bonavista.

Mr. Speaker, let me also say to the Leader of the Opposition: the tax credit program - which he applauds - the

labor sponsored venture capital fund - which he applauds - and the cut in the payroll tax is obviously designed

for small business. The labour market development strategy we have put in place is also designed for small business,

for communities in this Province and to help people of this Province; and the list goes on, as he knows. He knows

that this government has done very, very well under very trying circumstances in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER TULK: Let me also say to him that the people of rural Newfoundland and Labrador know this government is

doing it's level best to see that the kind of culture and kind of society that all of us love - every last single

man, woman and child love - has done very, very well by it. I think they have shown us on a number of instances

in elections.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are to the Minister of Health and Community Services. Last week the Minister of Health said he would

make government more transparent and accountable to the people so that people would have quick and easy access

to information. In particular, government and government agencies would be compelled to release reports dealing

with matters in the public interest.

I ask the minister: What are you waiting for? A huge majority of Cabinet supports you, Minister, why don't you

do it right now?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I asked a question and Hansard will show, for the record, that I asked a question. I will ask him another question.

If he doesn't want to answer that one I will ask him another one.

The minister ordered all health care boards in this Province to present a three year plan to reduce their operating

deficits. They were to be completed and submitted to him by October. We have reports from the Western Health

Care Corporation, the only one that was drawn out under public pressure. I now ask the minister: Will you immediately

release the reports on the three year plan for every other health care corporation?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate being asked to release something instead of just a general statement. The issue, again - and obviously

and unfortunately the Opposition critic for Health and Community Services has not followed what we have been doing

since the budget last April.

In the budget last April we did indicate that we would ask every one of the health care boards - because they were

all running some level of deficit financing with respect to their annualized operations - to submit to a review

of their operations. We even hired a special consultant and advisor to go work with them, Mr. Abbott, who had

done a piece of work and submitted some documentation to verify exactly what the status of the operational budgets

were for each of the institutional boards in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, that information was provided to the Department of Health and Community Services, and to each of the

boards. It is being used today, as we speak, so that in working sessions the staff of the Department of Health

and Community Services and the staff of each of the institutional boards who are interested in doing something

about the beneficial and improved health care of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians - they are not interested in

playing politics with it; they are interested in doing something about it. They are in possession of the documentation

that is being used to work through a process so that they can, hopefully, come up with a three year plan, like

the Western Health Care Corporation did.

When the Western Health Care Corporation did achieve its three year plan, we released the plan. We released all

of the supporting documentation, including the Atkinson Report, and we will follow, exactly, the same process if

and when the other nine boards come to a conclusion of a satisfactory three year plan.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There being only three minutes remaining in Question Period, the Speaker will now go to the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Premier concerning the relocation plans of this government for public services. This decision

was made without previous or serious preparation, without any consultation with the Public Service, and at great

costs.

Minister, the Premier said today that the estimates of government continue to be refined. I wonder if he could

tell us today exactly what the current estimates are for the cost - I do not want him to tell us what they are

not. Tell us the current estimates government has for the cost of this program, including the capital cost, including

the costs of relocation of Government Services, and the cost of looking after employees?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TULK: Mr. Speaker, let me just say that the current estimates of the - and I am glad he used the word,

estimates, because that is the word he should use; because things are changing as we try to, again, help our employees

adjust to the situation more - as we put in place more measures to help our employees adjust. Things are changing;

but I would say to him that the current estimates are slightly higher. I do not have an exact figure for him,

but I will give him an exact table. Once it is available, I will table it in this House. In my own estimation

and in looking at all the figures and talking to the senior officials of the department, they are slightly above

what the original estimate was.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Clearly, any expenditure by government that is budgeted is an estimate. The minister has not told

us what the actual estimate is.

I am going to ask him another question, aside from the expenditure of unbudgeted government money here, we are

talking about employees being affected. Will the Premier and the government, today, give a guarantee to employees

in the Public Service to be affected by this relocation plans of government, that they will not be detrimentally

affected? In other words, if there is no other job for them to go to, without losing their employment, if there

is no other option available, will the Premier give a guarantee today that these employees and their families will

not be detrimentally affected by the government's plan?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TULK: Mr. Speaker, why doesn't the hon. gentleman stand up and say: Cancel the program.

Let me say to the hon. gentleman what I will say to him. I cannot guarantee, as I said at the beginning of this

thing, a job for every person who is affected by this initiative. Let me just say to him, we started off with

some 275 positions that we were going to move. At the present time, we are looking at 193 people who we are dealing

with at this point in time, and there are approximately 160 vacancies out there. There could be 162, 158, but

there are 160 vacancies that we are presently working with, to match those 193 people into them. We are taking

other initiatives as well, I say to the hon. gentleman, to try to fit as many of those people as we can into jobs

that they need to be fitted in, and we will continue to work at it. That is the reason why the budget will keep

changing.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. Premier now to conclude his answer.

PREMIER TULK: That is the reason why the budget will be changing, because we want to treat people in the appropriate

fashion to try - for example, if I could, by leave, just take a minute.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TULK: If I could, by leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. the Premier have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.

PREMIER TULK: Okay. Sorry about that, Jack.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Question Period has ended.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An

Act To Amend The Family Law Act." (Bill 43)

Furthermore, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Provide

For The Recovery Of Tobacco Related Health Care Costs." (Bill 41)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Labour.

MR. LANGDON: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An

Act To Amend The Labour Standards Act." (Bill 20)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services and Lands.

MR. McLEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Trustee

Act." (Bill 37)

Also, Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To

Amend The Prepaid Funeral Service Act." (Bill 45)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Schools

Act, 1997." (Bill 44)

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend

The Service Charges Act." (Bill 40)

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow move that the House resolve itself into Committee of the Whole

to Consider Certain Resolutions Relating to the Granting of Supply to Her Majesty,

an Act for Granting to Her Majesty

Certain Sums of Money for Defraying Certain Additional Expenses of the Public Service for the Financial Year Ending

March 31, 2000 and for Other Purposes Relating to the Public Service.

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow move that the House resolve itself into Committee of the Whole

to Consider Certain Resolutions Relating to the Raising of Loans by the Province,

an Act to Authorize the Raising

of Money by Ways of Loans by the Province.

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow move that the House resolve itself into Committee of the Whole

to Consider Certain Resolutions Respecting the Imposition of Taxes on Income,

an Act Respecting the Income Tax

Act.

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow move that the House will resolve itself into Committee of the

Whole to Consider Certain Resolutions Relating to the Advancing of Guarantees of Certain Loans,

an Act to Amend

The Loans and Guarantee Act, 1957.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow introduce the following private member's resolution:

WHEREAS the equalization program provides substantial benefits to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador and

contributes greatly to the funding of provincial programs such as health, education and social assistance; and

WHEREAS changes to the equalization program are necessary to ensure a greater share of the revenues from resource

developments are used directly to enhance our economic prospects and provide quality programs for our residence;

and

WHEREAS the people of Newfoundland and Labrador wish to ensure that they benefit to the greatest extent possible

from the rich resources; and

WHEREAS we want to ensure that the disparities that exist between this Province and the rest of Canada are reduced

as quickly as possible.

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that the House endorse the efforts by the Premier and Minister of Finance to seek changes

to the equalization program which will strengthen and enhance the program to make it work better and be more responsive

to the needs of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An

Act To Amend The Smoke-Free Environment Act." (Bill 38).

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will also on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To

Amend The Tobacco Control Act." (Bill 39).

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition. I will say, first of all, that this is not in the form prescribed by our rules

so I ask leave of both sides of the House to present this petition.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, this is a petition signed by some 11,000 people in the region of the Sir Thomas Roddick

Hospital in Stephenville who are very concerned about the fact that the plans for the hospital do not include a

kitchen. This is a move being made by the government.

I will read the petition, which says that the quality of food is of vital importance to patients, residents and

staff. The government has announced there will be no kitchen in the new hospital. The food is to be prepared

and transported from Bay St. George Long Term Care in Stephenville Crossing, fifteen kilometers away.

We, the concerned citizens of the Bay St. George area, call upon the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to

reverse its decision on plans to have no kitchen in the Sir Thomas Roddick Hospital which is to be constructed

in Stephenville.

Mr. Speaker, the hospital in Stephenville is being constructed because of the need for quality services in the

Stephenville area, and to decide to put in place a hospital without the inclusion of a kitchen is an insult to

the people of that area who deserve to have a proper hospital facility with proper nutrition and food for its patients.

Mr. Speaker, this government tried to do something similar in Gander a few years ago and thought, in fact, that

the smell of bread cooking was sufficient for senior citizens, until public pressure forced them to change their

minds.

This government has just told this House that it will spend in excess of $7 million on a relocation plan that is

unbudgeted, that is unplanned and, in fact, according to the Canadian Union of Public Employees, whose members

will be affected by this decision of government, it will cost in excess of $1 million to move the library services

board and operations to the Town of Stephenville.

Mr. Speaker, by using the same money to provide a kitchen facility to the Sir Thomas Roddick Hospital, and the

jobs that would be saved, the residents of the Bay St. George area would not only have a kitchen and have good,

proper food for its patients, but would also, in fact, save the government money that would otherwise be wasted

by relocating the services to Stephenville at an increased cost to government.

The people of the Bay St. George area, no less than anywhere else, deserve to have quality services, and those

quality services should, at a minimum, include a hospital complete with kitchen facilities.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear!

MR. LUSH: I would like to thank my fans for their support.

Mr. Speaker, because of the nature of this opening we have agreed, or I have consulted with my hon. friends across

the way, to concur in eliminating some steps with the introduction of some bills, and they have agreed they would.

The first one I would like is the first reading of Motion 3 on our Order Paper, which is to ask leave to introduce

a bill entitled,

An Act to Amend The Highway Traffic Act, Bill 26. We would like to have agreement of the House

to have first reading of that particular bill.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Government Services and Lands to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Highway

Traffic Act," carried. (Bill 26)

On motion, Bill 26 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I ask for the same agreement with members for bills that were read today. I shall quote

the numbers of the bills:

A bill,

An Act To Amend The Labour Standards Act (Bill 20);

A bill,

An Act To Amend The Family Law Act (Bill 43);

A bill,

An Act To Provide For The Recovery Of Tobacco Related Health Care Costs (Bill 41);

A bill,

An Act to Amend The Schools Act, 1997 (Bill 44);

A bill,

An Act To Amend The Services Charges Act (Bill 40);

A bill,

An Act To Amend The Prepaid Funeral Services Act (Bill 45);

A bill,

An Act to Amend The Trustee Act (Bill 37);

A bill,

An Act To Amend The Smoke-Free Environment Act (Bill 38)

A bill,

An Act To Amend The Tobacco Control Act (Bill 39).

Mr. Speaker, these are the bills on which we would like members to give consideration for first reading.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair does not have the titles of the bills. I wonder if we could do these by just reading the

bill numbers?

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Justice, to introduce the following bills, carried:

A bill, "An Act To Amend The Family Law Act." (Bill 43)

A bill, "An Act To Provide For The Recovery Of Tobacco Related Health Care Costs." (Bill 41)

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Environment and Labour to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Labour Standards

Act," carried. (Bill 20)

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Government Services and Lands to introduce the following bills, carried:

A bill, "An Act To Amend The Trustee Act." (Bill 37)

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Government Services and Lands to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Prepaid

Funeral Services Act. " (Bill 45)

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Finance to introduce the following bills, carried:

A bill, "An Act To Amend The Schools Act, 1997." (Bill 44)

A bill, "

An Act To Amend The Services Charges Act." (Bill 40)

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services to introduce the following bills, carried:

A bill, "An Act To Amend The Smoke-Free Environment Act." (Bill 38)

A bill, "

An Act to Amend The Tobacco Control Act." (Bill 39)

On motion, Bills 43, 41, 20, 37, 45, 44, 40, 38 and 39 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Motion 2, Mr. Speaker.

On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Committee of the Whole

CHAIR (Mercer): Order, please!

Bill 13. Resolution: To be submitted to a Committee of the Whole House in relation to the advancing or guaranteeing

of certain loans.

The hon. the Minister of Finance.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

This is a bill that comes into the House annually and provides for the approval of loan guarantees that have been

issued over the previous year to various municipalities in the Province pursuant to their requirements to have

loan guarantees for borrowings from various institutions, mostly from chartered banks, of course. I suppose there

could be some from credit unions, but basically these are chartered bank loans granted to municipalities. Some

of them are loan renewals, some of them are new loans they are entering into, but in all cases these are loans

we have guaranteed over the past twelve months, and we need the approval of the House in order to give affirmation

to the guarantees we have issued.

I think the comment that I would make with respect to this particular bill is: I believe it indicates again very

clearly the respect and the support that this government lends to the towns and cities in this Province.

We know that the towns, we know that the councils of cities in this Province, have a very challenging, sometimes

a very difficult task, in order to meet the needs of providing public services at the local level against the challenge

of raising taxes and the challenge of trying to extract from government grants for various areas of interest that

they put forward. Obviously towns cannot always come up with their share of the money that they ne