British Columbia Hansard — 2 June 2021, p.m., Issue 82 (42nd Parliament, 2nd Session)

20210602pm-Hansard-n82

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session, 42nd Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Wednesday, June 2, 2021 Afternoon Sitting Issue No. 82 THE HONOURABLE RAJ CHOUHAN, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC Second Session, 42nd Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Raj Chouhan EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council............................................................................................................... Hon. John Horgan Minister of Advanced Education and Skills Training...........................................................................................................Hon.

Anne Kang Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries......................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Housing.............................................................................................Hon. David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development....................................................................................................................Hon.

Mitzi Dean Minister of State for Child Care......................................................................................................................................Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services.....................................................................................................................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Education..................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Jennifer Whiteside Minister of Energy, Mines and Low Carbon Innovation........................................................................................Hon. Bruce Ralston, QC Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy.............................................................................................Hon. George Heyman Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Selina Robinson Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Lands and Natural Resource Operations................................................................................. Hon. Nathan Cullen Minister of Health and Minister Responsible for Francophone Affairs.............................................................................Hon.

Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation .......................................................................................... Hon. Murray Rankin, QC Minister of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation.......................................................................................................Hon. Ravi Kahlon Minister of State for Trade...............................................................................................................................................Hon.

George Chow Minister of Labour...................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions.............................................................................................................. Hon. Sheila Malcolmson Minister of Municipal Affairs ............................................................................................................................................. Hon.

Josie Osborne Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General........................................................................................................... Hon. Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction........................................................................................... Hon. Nicholas Simons Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport.................................................................................................................. Hon.

Melanie Mark Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure................................................................................................................... Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of State for Infrastructure................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Bowinn Ma LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition...................................................................................................................................................Shirley Bond Leader of the Third Party .......................................................................................................................................................... Sonia Furstenau Deputy Speaker..........................................................................................................................................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Assistant Deputy Speaker..............................................................................................................................................................Norm L etnick Deputy Chair, Commi ttee of the Whole.......................................................................................................................... Ronna-Rae Leonard Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...........................................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel.............................................................................................................................. Seunghee Suzie Seo Clerk Assistant, Parliamentary Services........................................................................................................................... Artour Sogomonian Clerk of Commi ttees.......................................................................................................................................................................

Jennifer Arril Clerk Assistant, Commi ttees and Interparliamentary Relations ..............................................................................................Susan Sourial Senior Research Analyst................................................................................................................................................................... Karan Riarh Acting Sergeant-at-Arms..................................................................................................................................................................Greg Nelson

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Alexis, Pam (B C NDP) ............................................................Abbotsford-Mission Anderson, Brittny (BC NDP) .........................................................Nelson-Creston Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal Party)............................................................... Penticton Babchuk, Michele (BC NDP)...............................................................North Island Bailey, Brenda (BC NDP).................................................. Vancouver–False Creek Bains, Hon. Harry (BC NDP).........................................................

Surrey-Newton Banman, Bruce (BC Liberal Party)............................................ Abbotsford South Beare, Hon. Lisa (BC NDP) .......................................

Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry (BC NDP).................................................................Surrey-Guildford Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal Party)...............................................Peace River South Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal Party).................................Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (BC NDP) ................................................................Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal Party) .............................................

Surrey South Chandra Herbert, Spencer (BC NDP).................................Vancouver–West End Chant, Susie (BC NDP) ..............................................North Vancouver–Seymour Chen, Hon. Katrina (BC NDP) ............................................... Burnaby-Lougheed Chouhan, Hon. Raj (BC NDP).................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Chow, Hon. George (BC NDP) ..........................................Vancouver-Fraserview Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal Party)........................Columbia River–Revelstoke Conroy, Hon.

Katrine (BC NDP)....................................................Kootenay West Coulter, Dan (BC NDP) .......................................................................... Chilliwack Cullen, Hon. Nathan (BC NDP) ................................................................... Stikine Davies, Dan (BC Liberal Party)................................................. Peace River North de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal Party)....................................Abbotsford West Dean, Hon. Mitzi (BC NDP) ...............................................

Esquimalt-Metchosin D’Eith, Bob (BC NDP) .........................................................Maple Ridge–Mission Dix, Hon. Adrian (BC NDP) ................................................ Vancouver-Kingsway Doerkson, Lorne (BC Liberal Party) ........................................Cariboo-Chilcotin Donnelly, Fin (BC NDP) .......................................... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Dykeman, Megan (BC NDP)............................................................... Langley East Eby, Hon. David, QC (BC NDP).......................................

Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (BC NDP) ..................................................Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike (BC NDP) .................................................Port Coquitlam Fleming, Hon. Rob (BC NDP) ...............................................

Victoria–Swan Lake Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) .............................................Cowichan Valley Glumac, Rick (BC NDP) ..................................................Port Moody–Coquitlam Greene, Kelly (BC NDP) ........................................................Richmond-Steveston Halford, Trevor (BC Liberal Party).........................................Surrey–White Rock Heyman, Hon. George (BC NDP) .........................................Vancouver-Fairview Horgan, Hon. John (BC NDP) ......................................... Langford–Juan de Fuca Kahlon, Hon.

Ravi (BC NDP) .............................................................. Delta North Kang, Hon. Anne (BC NDP) ..................................................Burnaby–Deer Lake Kirkpatrick, Karin (BC Liberal Party)........................West Vancouver–Capilano Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal Party)....................................................................Shuswap Lee, Michael (BC Liberal Party)..............................................Vancouver-Langara Leonard, Ronna-Rae (BC NDP)...............................................

Courtenay-Comox Letnick, Norm (B C Liberal Party) .................................. Kelowna–Lake Country Lore, Grace (BC NDP)........................................................... Victoria–Beacon Hill Ma, Hon. Bowinn (BC NDP).....................................North Vancouver–Lonsdale Malcolmson, Hon. Sheila (BC NDP)........................................................Nanaimo Mark, Hon. Melanie (BC NDP).................................Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Mercier, Andrew (BC NDP) ........................................................................

Langley Merrifield, Renee (BC Liberal Party)......................................... Kelowna-Mission Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal Party) .......................... Kam loops–North Thompson Morris, Mike (BC Liberal Party)................................. Prince George–Mackenzie Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal Party).................................................. Cariboo North Olsen, Adam (B C Green Party)............................ Saanich North and the Islands Osborne, Hon.

Josie (BC NDP)........................................Mid Island–Pacific Rim Paddon, Kelli (BC NDP) ................................................................Chilliwack-Kent Paton, Ian (BC Liberal Party) ............................................................... Delta South Popham, Hon. Lana (BC NDP)........................................................ Saanich South Ralston, Hon. Bruce, QC (BC NDP) .............................................Surrey-Whalley Rankin, Hon.

Murray, QC (BC NDP) .............................Oak Bay–Gordon Head Rice, Jennifer (BC NDP) ...................................................................... North Coast Robinson, Hon. Selina (BC NDP)...................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal Party)......................................................................... Skeena Routledge, Janet (BC NDP) .............................................................Burnaby North Routley, Doug (BC NDP)...........................................

Nanaimo–North Cowichan Russell, Roly (BC NDP).................................................... Boundary-Similkameen Rustad, John (BC Liberal Party)......................................................Nechako Lakes Sandhu, Harwinder (BC NDP) .................................................Vernon-Monashee Sharma, Niki (BC NDP)..........................................................Vancouver-Hastings Shypitka, Tom (B C Liberal Party).................................................... Kootenay East Simons, Hon. Nicholas (BC NDP).........................

Powell River–Sunshine Coast Sims, Jinny (BC NDP) ................................................................. Surrey-Panorama Singh, Aman (BC NDP) .............................................Richmond-Queensborough Singh, Rachna (BC NDP)...................................................Surrey–Green Timbers Starchuk, Mike (BC NDP) ......................................................... Surrey-Cloverdale Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal Party).......................................................

Kelowna West Stone, Todd (BC Liberal Party) ...............................Kam loops–South Thompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal Party) .............................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal Party)....................................................... Fraser-Nicola Walker, Adam (B C NDP) ....................................................... Parksville-Qualicum Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal Party)....................................... Richmond North Centre Whiteside, Hon. Jennifer (BC NDP) .........................................

New Westminster Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal Party)......................Vancouver-Quilchena Yao, Henry (BC NDP) ..................................................... Richmond South Centre LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission................................................................................. Pam Alexis Abbotsford South...............................................................................Bruce Banman Abbotsford West......................................................................

Michael de Jong, QC Boundary-Similkameen........................................................................ Roly Russell Burnaby–Deer Lake....................................................................... Hon. Anne Kang Burnaby-Edmonds......................................................................Hon. Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed.................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Burnaby North.................................................................................

Janet Routledge Cariboo-Chilcotin ..........................................................................Lorne Doerkson Cariboo North.................................................................................... Coralee Oakes Chilliwack ...............................................................................................Dan Coulter Chilliwack-Kent.................................................................................... Kelli Paddon Columbia River–Revelstoke .........................................................

Doug Clovechok Coquitlam–Burke Mountain...............................................................Fin Donnelly Coquitlam-Maillardville...................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Courtenay-Comox................................................................... Ronna-Rae Leonard Cowichan Valley ............................................................................. Sonia Furstenau Delta North................................................................................... Hon.

Ravi Kahlon Delta South..................................................................................................Ian Paton Esquimalt-Metchosin.................................................................... Hon. Mitzi Dean Fraser-Nicola.........................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Kam loops–North Thompson .............................................................Peter Milobar Kam loops–South Thompson..................................................................Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country.....................................................................Norm L etnick Kelowna-Mission ...........................................................................

Renee Merrifield Kelowna West..........................................................................................Ben Stewart Kootenay East.......................................................................................Tom Shypitka Kootenay West........................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Langford–Juan de Fuca.............................................................. Hon.

John Horgan Langley .............................................................................................Andrew Mercier Langley East....................................................................................Megan Dykeman Maple Ridge–Mission.............................................................................. Bob D’Eith Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows............................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim............................................................ Hon.

Josie Osborne Nanaimo.............................................................................Hon. Sheila Malcolmson Nanaimo–North Cowichan............................................................... Doug Routley Nechako Lakes........................................................................................ John Rustad Nelson-Creston ............................................................................. Brittny Anderson New Westminster.............................................................. Hon.

Jennifer Whiteside North Coast........................................................................................... Jennifer Rice North Island................................................................................... Michele Babchuk North Vancouver–Lonsdale......................................................... Hon. Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour...................................................................Susie Chant Oak Bay–Gordon Head..................................................Hon.

Murray Rankin, QC Parksville-Qualicum ........................................................................... Adam Walker Peace River North................................................................................... Dan Davies Peace River South ................................................................................ Mike Bernier Penticton ................................................................................................. Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam ...................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam .......................................................................Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast..............................................Hon.

Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie....................................................................Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount..................................................................Shirley Bond Richmond North Centre..........................................................................Teresa Wat Richmond-Queensborough..................................................................Aman Singh Richmond South Centre..........................................................................

Henry Yao Richmond-Steveston ............................................................................ Kelly Greene Saanich North and the Islands .............................................................Adam Olsen Saanich South.............................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Shuswap...................................................................................................... Greg Kyllo Skeena...........................................................................................................

Ellis Ross Stikine........................................................................................ Hon. Nathan Cullen Surrey-Cloverdale..............................................................................

Mike Starchuk Surrey-Fleetwood.....................................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers........................................................................Rachna Singh Surrey-Guildford......................................................................................Garry Begg Surrey-Newton..............................................................................Hon. Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama......................................................................................

Jinny Sims Surrey South................................................................................Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Whalley ................................................................. Hon. Bruce Ralston, QC Surrey–White Rock .......................................................................... Trevor Halford Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................. Hon. George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek......................................................................

Brenda Bailey Vancouver-Fraserview...............................................................Hon. George Chow Vancouver-Hastings..............................................................................Niki Sharma Vancouver-Kensington....................................................................... Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway..................................................................... Hon. Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara................................................................................ Michael Lee Vancouver–Mount Pleasant.....................................................

Hon. Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey............................................................Hon. David Eby, QC Vancouver-Quilchena........................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Vancouver–West End .....................................................Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee ..................................................................... Harwinder Sandhu Victoria–Beacon Hill............................................................................... Grace Lore Victoria–Swan Lake.................................................................... Hon.

Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Karin Kirkpatrick West Vancouver–Sea to Sky................................................................Jordan Sturdy Party Standings: BC NDP 57; BC Liberal Party 28; BC Green Party 2

CONTENTS Wednesday, June 2, 2021 Afternoon Sitting Page Routine Business Tributes..................................................................................................................................................................................... 2399 Kim Hyatt Hon. S.

Malcolmson Introductions by Members..................................................................................................................................................... 2399 Tributes..................................................................................................................................................................................... 2400 Lloyd Callahan R.

Merrifield Introduction and First Reading of Bills................................................................................................................................ 2400 Bill M202 — Health Professions Amendment Act, 2021 S. Furstenau Statements (Standing Order 25B)......................................................................................................................................... 2401 Pride Month K. Paddon ALS awareness and Lou Gehrig Day S. Bond Richmond business and comm unity partnerships during COVID-19 K.

Greene COVID-19 response by social service agencies in West Vancouver–Sea to Sky area J. Sturdy Dementia care and Dementia-Friendly Comm unity Task Group in Maple Ridge B. D’Eith B.C. Children’s Hospital T. Stone Oral Questions......................................................................................................................................................................... 2403 Activation of Aboriginal Affairs Commi ttee S. Bond Hon. J. Horgan P. Milobar Government policies on forest industry and protection of old-growth forests S. Furstenau Hon. K. Conroy U.S. tariffs on softwood lumber J.

Rustad Hon. J. Horgan Softwood lumber negotiations and trade with U.S. M. de Jong Hon. J. Horgan T. Stone Orders of the Day Commi ttee of the Whole House............................................................................................................................................ 2409 Bill 6 — Accessible British Columbia Act S. Cadieux Hon. N. Simons A. Olsen D. Davies

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Commi ttee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 2426 Estimates: Ministry of Mental Health and Addictions (continued) Hon. S. Malcolmson S. Furstenau S. Bond T. Stone P. Milobar R. Merrifield D. Davies B. Stewart T. Halford Proceedings in the Birch Room Commi ttee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 2448 Estimates: Ministry of Children and Family Development(continued) K. Kirkpatrick Hon. K. Chen

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 2, 2021 The House met at 1:35 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers and reflections: D. Davies. Tributes KIM HYATT Hon. S. Malcolmson: We mark B.C. WildSalmon Day with sad news. Last week Dr. Kim Hyatt, a leading wild salmon scientist, passed away peacefully at home in Nanaimo, family at his side. Although on medical leave from the federalDepartmentof Fisheries and Oceans, he remained commi tted and connected to the many research projects under his leadership, including a final web call on sockeye and climate change justtwo weeks before his death.

Over the last four decades, Kim’s legacy work at the PacificBiologicalStation included the federalwildsalmon policy, the Nisg̱ a’a interim measures program and the upcoming work on the ColumbiaRivertreaty. His passion for discovery and innovation resulted in long-standing relationships with FirstNations which Kim builton trust, commi tment and honest comm unication.

Kim’s last wishes were that his ashes and those of his wife, Annice, be commi tted to Pipers Lagoon in Nanaimo and to some of the watersheds he devoted decadesto study — GreatCentralLake, and Sproat,Kennedy and Osoyoos lakes — afinal, fitting symbolof his dedication to sustain- able wild salmon populations. Introductions by Members Hon. M. Farnworth:It’s with greatpleasure…. Many of you in this chamber will know two of our LAPS, Legis- lative Assembly Protective Services, members, Jaqui and MichaelHamilton. They gotmarried here in British Col- umbia atthe Villa Eyrie in Malahatin June of 2006. They were visiting.

They were blown away by the beauty and the splendour of ourprovince. On theirway back to the U.K., where they both worked as policeofficers in Durham, they applied for Canadian residency. In June of 2014, they immigrated to Canada from the U.K., and shortly after, they joined the Legislative Assembly Protective Services. Michaelhas recently been promoted to a sergeantpos- ition with LAPS. Jaqui is extremely proud of him and what he has accomplished since moving to Canada. In July of 2019, Michaeland Jaqui applied fortheirCanadian citizenship.

Tomorrow, after 15 years, their dream will become a reality when they take the oath of citizenship to become new Canadians. Willeveryone in this chamberplease welcome ournew Canadian citizens. A. Olsen: LastnightI hadthe honourof meeting with parentsfrom the Holding Hope group. This was an eye- opening meeting that I had. I want to take the time this morning to introducetwo members of the Holding Hope group thatI metwith lastnightwho willbe watching us in question period and for our proceedings today. First is Sharon Dunn.

Sharon’s 35-year-old son has been five years as an active opioid userand has attemp- ted to find recovery options and detox options at least three times. It was a heartbreaking story to hear how Sharon’s son has not been able to get the m edical care that he needs and is now continuing to struggle with dealing with the sham e and stigm a that com e with his life and the challenges that he faces. [1:40 p.m.] I’d also like to introduceLaurie Armstrong. Laurie’s son is 36. He’s gotsix years of struggling with alcohol, cocaine and meth addictions.

He has attended local rehab; he’s been kicked out.He has hada brain injury from a motor vehicle accident, multiple visits to psychiatric wards. RCMP has toldthe family thatthey require apapertrail of 30 run-ins before help can be mandated. Despite several attemptsatreaching outto the GP, they have notbeen able to getthe help thatthey need and, really, are stillstruggling with judgment and stigmatization. Today I wanted to take a momentto elevate these two parentswho are doing everything they can to help their children, theiradultchildren.

I justreally wantto raise my hands up to them for the courage thatthey had, notonly to share theirstory with me, butto encourage me to share theirstory withyou and allthe members of this House and with all British Columbians. HÍSW̱ ḴE SIÁM. Thank you. E. Ross:I wouldlike to make abirthday announcement, my wife’s paternal grandmother. Her name is Lillian EuniceHenry, but her maiden name is Hall. At the age of five, Lillian was sent to residential school, along with three of her friends. She was sent because her real mom had passed away and herdad couldn’tlook afterher.

She married her husband, Mack Henry, and they had three children and a multitudeof grandchildren and now great- grandchildren, including my own. She was astay-at-home wife, mother, and she loved sew- ing, knitting and crocheting. She also loved preserving foods, both traditional and non-traditional. She also enjoyed, every day, two toasts,with a cup of tea that she drank from a saucer. I can attestto that.I drank some tea with her at one time. She’s survived by one stepbrother and one stepsister. Heronly son is stillalive as well, and six grandchildren, 2399

nine great-grandchildren and five great-great-grandchil- dren. Lillian EuniceHall Henry was born on June 2, 1922, which m akes her 99 years oldtoday. Wouldthe House please join m e in celebrating Lillian Henry’s birthday today. R. Merrifield: Today I have the honourto rise, actually, on two matters. The first is an incredibly happy one. As many of you in this House, who are newly elected…. Well, we haven’tmeteach otherin person, only on Zoom. We’ve spentalotof swearing-inceremonieson Zoom in ourloc- aloffices.We’ve also spenttime away from ourridingsrep- resenting our constituents in this House.

But we’re very aware of those who are making sacrifices for us to be here. Well, I’m pleased today to recognize my fiancé that is supporting our five kids at home as well as our two Bernese mountain dogs.He is an incrediblecontributorto our family but also to our comm unity, serving as a vice- presidentexecutive as wellas volunteeringand alwayssup- porting those who need. During the election, itwas he thatwas with me atnine and ten at night, fixing signs and installing signs in the rain, snow and in the dark. He is my champion, my cheer- leader, my love and my best friend.

Would the House please join me in welcoming my fiancé Carlos Alentejano. Tributes LLOYD CALLAHAN R. Merrifield: The otherone is a difficultone, because itis with aheavy heartthatI honourthe passing of atruly incredible man, Mr. Lloyd Callahan, who passed away peacefully aftera brief illness on May 20, 2021. Mr. Calla- han is known forhis passion forbusiness, traveland allthe Okanagan has to offer. Lloyd couldbe found on the golf course, the ski hill, the pickleballcourtorouton the water. He was neverone to sitstilland loved to share his experi- ence with other people.

Fondly called “the chief” by those who are closest to him, Lloyd will be greatly missed by friends and family. With a twinklein his eye and determination in his step, Lloyd was a pioneerin the developmentindustry and the growth of Kelowna. His legacy willlive on formany years to come. He was a Rotarian, a philanthropist,a business- man, but a true gentleman. [1:45 p.m.] Wouldthe House please join me in sending comfortto the wholeCallahan family, as well as our comm unity, as they mourn the loss of atruly greatman and an incredible pillar of the Okanagan Valley and Kelowna.

Introduction and First Reading of Bills BILL M202 — HEALTH PROFESSIONS AMENDMENT ACT, 2021 S. Furstenau presented a bill intituled Health Professions Amendment Act, 2021. S. Furstenau: I move thatabillintituled the Health Pro- fessions AmendmentAct,2021, of which noticehas been given in my name on the orderpaper, be introduced and read a first time now.

I’m pleased to stand today to introduceamendmentsto the existing Health Professions Act that will set forth a path forregulation of counselling therapistsand fullregu- lation of socialworkers in BritishColumbia.These amend- mentsare aboutregulating mentalhealth professionals in orderto protect the public,create trust and ensure that there is transparency and accountability forthose provid- ing care to vulnerable British Columbians. Currently B.C. does notrequire counsellors or therap- iststo be regulated.

This means thatanyone can callthem- selvesacounsellororatherapist,regardless of theireduca- tion orbackground. Socialworkers are only partially regu- lated, againsttheirbesteffortsto advocate forchange. Both professions have pursued regulation with this currentgov- ernment and previous governments to little avail. These proposed amendmentsremove the government’s ability to delay or disregard an application for regulation. It requires the minister to weigh the application against nothing butthe publicinterest,ensuring thatotherpolit- icalfactors do notgetin the way of protecting the public.

It creates a timeline of between three to six months for an application to go through the approval process and a requirementto notify an association applying fordesigna- tion of the reasoning behind theirapplication’s determina- tion, providing certainty for associations. These proposed amendmentscome with support from both professional associations representing counselling therapistsand socialworkers as wellas individualpracti- tioners and the public.They are a necessary step forward to creating a better system of mental health care in this province.

I hope to debate these amendmentsin second reading and have this Legislature come togetherto discuss mental health care in our province. Mr. Speaker: The question is first reading of the bill. Motion approved. S. Furstenau: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading atthe nextsitting of the House after today. Bill M202, Health Professions Amendment Act, 2021, 2400 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, June 2, 2021

introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25B) PRIDE MONTH K. Paddon: So much is happening this week: so many important conversations being had, so many important remarks being shared. I move to share just one more. Yesterday was the first day of Pride Month. In Chilli- wack-Kent,like in so many places,the acknowledgmentof PrideMonth is important,as ourbeautifully diverse com- munity is changing and growing together.

Forthose who aren’tsure, PrideMonth is a time dedic- ated to raising 2SLGBTQ+ voices,a celebration of culture, an acknowledgment of rightsand a time of self-affirma- tion. This is an opportunity to learn, to be seen, to demon- strate pride as opposed to shame, to affirm allyship as opposed to social stigma. It’s a time to show each other how much we’ve learned about acceptance of self and of others, about inclusion and even about love, especially now, after so long apart.

In Chilliwack-Kent and Chilliwack, there has been an explosion of rainbows in ourcomm unities.Whereas afew years ago there were none, we now have almosttwo dozen rainbow crosswalks. There have been two years of summ er pride activities, and there are resources:the GenderSup- portNetwork, the Chilliwack PrideSociety, the Chilliwack Youth Health Centre and comm unity partnerships that support them. The work is underway, but it is not complete. I spoke with Teri Westerby, the presidentof Chilliwack Pride, and he shared that there are critical gaps remaining around outreach and age-based supports.

This is important — importantto recognize the pride, importantto recognize the gaps, importantto puton the record thatChilliwack- Kentis growing and ourprideis blooming. It’s a beautiful thing to behold. [1:50 p.m.] Forourchildren who are listening to ourwords, to our neighbours who are watching our intentions, for those I know and those I don’twho are struggling, and as a lead- erwho is responsibleto setthe exampleof inclusion and acceptance, I am so proud to stand in this House as the representative for Chilliwack-Kent and say happy Pride Month. Share your pride. ALS AWARENESS AND LOU GEHRIG DAY S.

Bond: Well, June m arks ALS Awareness Month. Today MajorLeagueBaseballis hosting Lou GehrigDay, comm emorating the legendary ballplayer’s fight against ALS, which he eventually loston this very day 80 years ago. ALS is a devastating disease, as the diagnosis means no hope of recovery, and when someone’s motor functions decline, eventually losing the ability to talk, to walk and, ultimately, to breathe. Most tragically, ALS is currently a terminal diagnosis with no treatment or cure.

I’m happy thathope is on the horizon for patientsand theirfamiliesat the clinicalresearch centre, aptly named ProjectHope, a partnership with UBC and the ALS Soci- ety of B.C., as itmoves forward in ourprovince. Overthe many years thatI have been involved with ALS advocacy, I can say thatone of the firstthings patientstalk aboutis hope. We must keep up the fight. Today B.C. landmarks, from Mr. PG in my hometown to the Legislature here in Victoria, will light up to show support for those living with the realities of ALS.

Major League Baseball teams will don uniforms with 4-ALS patches, comm emorating Gehrig’s jersey number, and ceremonial pitches will focus on the ALS comm unity. Throughout this month, the PGA of B.C. is hosting a Golfathon for ALS. On June 19, the largest annual fun- draisingeventforALS willbe heldacross the country, with a virtualWalk to End ALS, raising funds forALS research and crucial comm unity-based supports.I’ll be lacing up my runners on June 19 in supportof those with ALS and their families.

I hope thattoday, in honourof Lou Gehrig and every- one who has faced the strugglesof ALS, every memberof this House willjoin me in the fightto end ALS, onceand for all. RICHMOND BUSINESS AND COMMUNITY PARTNERSHIPS DURING COVID-19 K. Greene: Before the pandemic arrived, Richmond businesses generously donated to our non-profit com- munity. When the pandemicdidarrive and up-ended our lives, businesses resolved to continue to help our non- profits and create new ways to support our comm unity together. I’d like to highlighta few of the partnerships thathave madeRichmond a strongercomm unity.

Richmond Cares, Richmond Gives has supportfrom HerbaLand with their sponsored mask sale, which promotes mask wearing and also raises needed funds for RCRG’s support programs. For the month of June, Design Tech Hair Studio will be collecting feminine hygiene productsin supportof the AtiraWomen’s Resource Society, which supportswomen and children fleeing violence. M&M Food MarketatFrancis and Gilbertheldacharity week forthe lastweek of May.

The proceeds from the sales, each day of the week, were donated to a different non- profit.Itsupported Cody Kehler: It’s in the MemoriesSoci- ety, Society of Richmond Children’s Centres, school dis- Wednesday, June 2, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2401

trict38 Feed-U-Cate, Dreams Take FlightVancouverand KidSport Richmond. Shiftand Lift launched a #runrichmond campaign to supportanti-racism awareness with the slogan “Run Rich- mond. You belong. I belong. We belong.” Donations are encouraged through theirsocialmedia channels to Rich- mond Multicultural Comm unity Services. Sanctuary Cafe also joined the #runrichmond campaign to support anti-racism awareness and is donating $2 per monstercookie soldin May to the Richmond Multicultur- al Comm unity Services. As a former Girl Guide and guider, I have sold a lot of cookies.

I know how much the GirlGuidesdepend on cookie money to run their valuable programs for girls. With no way to sell cookies door-to-door, Richmond- headquartered London Drugsstepped up with shelfspace for the cookies and also added the cookies as an optional add-on to online orders. My gratitude goes out to our caring business owners and non-profit partners, who are working together to make a real difference for Richmond. [1:55 p.m.] COVID-19 RESPONSE BY SOCIAL SERVICE AGENCIES IN WEST VANCOUVER–SEA TO SKY AREA J. Sturdy: It’s been said many times sincethe pandemic began last spring.

This has been an extraordinary, chal- lenging time. Despite myriadobstaclesthatcomm unities, organizations and familieshave faced, one sectorin partic- ularhas been steadfastin theircommi tmentto help others during one of society’s greatest times of need. Socialservicenot-for-profitorganizations didwhatthey usually do in the faceof difficult times. They faced into the wind, and they pressed on. Whileworking from home, clarifying relief support funds and programs, operating without facilities that had to be closed, recruiting volun- teers, our social service not-for-profits stepped into the fray and responded.

Across West Vancouver–Sea to Sky, I’ve seen the sheerdetermination and heartwarming col- laboration, reinvention and cooperation. Throughout the pandemic, the needs have been imm ense. Food bank services, supports for vulnerable populations, seniors care, mental health programs, a friendly voice over the phone during isolation — these only touch on what’s been needed and provided foracross all of our comm unities. I’d like to acknowledge all social service organizations across this constituency, from Bowen Island and West Vancouverthrough Whistler, Squamish, on to Pemberton, D’Arcy and beyond.

These organizations form the back- bone of care and support in neighbourhoods that I’m familiar with and, indeed, across the entire province. I know the work has been exhausting. I know the days have been long. I know the challenge is great.ButI’ve seen partnerships formed and creative approaches implemen- ted thatI know willcarry on long afterwe move pastthis challenging time.

To each of you who work in the social service not- for-profit organizations and to many, many more volun- teers who keep ourprograms operating, I am sure I speak on behalf of this wholeHouse when I say how much we appreciate the vital work you take on every day. Thank you, and stay safe. DEMENTIA CARE AND DEMENTIA-FRIENDLY COMMUNITY TASK GROUP IN MAPLE RIDGE B. D’Eith:During the pandemic, seniors in long-term care were isolated from their familiesto keep them and theirloved onessafe. One of my dearfriends, MicheleBor- dignon, was unableto visithermotherforoverayear.

Joan Gablelives in Holyrood Manorin MapleRidge and suffers from dementia. It was hard enough to take care of families with dementia. Butnotbeing ableto give them a hug orreas- sure them…. Itwas so much harderduring the pandem- ic. That’s why it’s so important — the work that’s being done by the Maple Ridge Dementia-Friendly Com- munity Task Group. Receiving a dementia diagnosis leaves m any people feeling isolated and unsure. In our comm unity, we’re very fortunate to have a dedicated and active group addressing the needs of those living with dementia.

The task group is m ade up of individual service providers and staff from the city. It focuses on reducing stigm a around dementia and building an inclusive comm unity. In fact,the task group provideseducation forlocalbusi- nesses and comm unity groups, so if aperson finds them- selves with dementia and needing help, people know what to do, and they can see the signs. I especially wouldlike to recognize task group member Heather Treleaven. Heather was chosen as an honouree for the Tri-Cities and Ridge Meadows IG Wealth Man- agementWalk forAlzheimer’s fundraiser.

Forthe pastten years, Heatherhas served as the coordinatorof the Maple Ridge, Pitt Meadows, Katzie Seniors Network, working hard to make sure that the voices of seniors and people with dementia are heard. The seniors network, with lead- ership from Heather, was instrumental in creating the MapleRidge age-friendly comm unity action plan, leading the city of MapleRidge to be designated as an age-friendly city by the WHO. Heatherworks tirelessly supporting seniors, ensuring thatthey have access to food and housing, m edicalcare and equipm entand, m ostimportant,a friendly voice to call.

It’s my privilege to have the opportunity to acknowledge the hard work and dedication shown by Heather and members of hertask group and the help thatthey’re giving to people like Michele and Joan to have a better life. 2402 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, June 2, 2021

[2:00 p.m.] B.C. CHILDREN’S HOSPITAL T. Stone: The scene is alltoo familiarin a waiting room at B.C. Children’s Hospital. Worried parents and loved ones pacing whilefacing incrediblestress as theirchildis in the operatingroom. A sense of nervous anticipation and worry, as minutes become hours, and hours feel like an eternity. A worldleaderin generaland specialized pediatricser- vices,Children’s Hospital is B.C.’s foremost teaching and research facility forchildhealth. Theirreputation is stellar, to say the least,and rightfully so. They care for93,000 chil- dren every year.

On April7, my wife Chantelleand I were those parents pacing in a B.C. Children’s Hospitalwaiting room as our daughter Hannah underwent major surgery. The worry and anxiety were amongst the worst we’ve ever experi- enced as parents.Itwas along 7½ hours. Thankfully, Han- nah’s surgery went well, and the quality of care that she received there was exceptional. We are so thankfulforeveryone atB.C. Children’s Hos- pital but especially for the nurses on the sixth floor of the Teck Acute Care Centre.

Theirtime taken to explain everything and answerourquestions, theirobvious com- passion, their dedication to helping our daughter and every childin theircare getbetterand even theirreassur- ing smiles will never be forgotten. We also can’tsay enough aboutthe caring and support- ive environment we experienced whilestaying at Ronald McDonaldHouse. This amazing placeis acomforting and supportive refuge forout-of-town familieswhose children are receiving care at B.C. Children’s.

To everyone who included Hannah in their thoughts and prayers, checked in on us regularly and offered to help in so many ways, we can’t thank you enough. Perhaps it’s fitting that as I make these remarks today, it’s actually Hannah’s 17th birthday, eightweeks to the day sincehersurgery. Herrecovery has been amazing, and her life is increasingly returning to normal. She’s been cleared for swimming and other activities, and she’s even been cleared fordriving. Ohno. She’s one courageous and tough person, and we’re very proud of her. Thank you, B.C. Children’s Hospital, from two very, very grateful parents.

Happy birthday to our sweetheart, Hannah. Oral Questions ACTIVATION OF ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS COMMITTEE S. Bond: On Monday, many powerful words were spoken in this chamber about the heartbreaking loss of 215 Indigenous children that were discovered in a mass grave atKam loops residentialschool. We allspoke of the need to dobetter. The memberforSkeenaand the member for Saanich North and the Islands shared how this has impacted generations of families, including theirs. We know thatguiding ourresponse to the tragedy must be FirstNations: those who survived, those who suffered and those who we seek to honour.

We can’tstand in this House orwork behind the scenes in officesand determine the direction forward. We can and must listen and act together. Willthe Premieractivate the SelectStanding Commi t- tee on AboriginalAffairs so thatallparties in this House can work togetherwithFirstNations to determine the next steps to bringing their children home? Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the Leaderof the Opposition for her question.

I certainly agree that all of us need to work togetheratthe direction of Indigenous comm unities across BritishColumbia.Thathas beenthe focus thatwe’ve been on — all of us, I believe — over the past number of days. Listening, learning, respecting cultural protocols and ensuring thatwe take direction and are atthe ready to assist when that assistance is called for. I’ve reached out to Kúkpi7 Casimir of the Tk’emlúps FirstNation and shared with herthe burdenthatshe must feelas a leaderin thatcomm unity.

I know my colleagues from the two comm unitiesunderstand thatfullwell, better than allof us — the enormous pressure on heras ahuman being, much less as an Indigenous woman leaderin this most challenging of times. I believe, based on my conversations with her, with National Chief Perry Bellegarde as well as just recently, before I came into the House today, with the Prime Min- ister, that our government will be focusing on listening. Sometime in the not-too-distantfuture….

The requestand the suggestion of the official opposition and, I’m certain, the Third Party to reconstitute the standing commi ttee to look atwhatwe can docollectively is an appropriate course of action, but that time has not yet arrived. [2:05 p.m.] This is a time for respecting and understanding that Indigenous Peoples, whether they be members of this House or not, are dealing with what is an extraordinary period of time. I believe itneeds more time so thatwe geta betterunderstanding of what’s going to be asked of us and so that we can act appropriately. Mr.

Speaker: The Leaderof the OfficialOpposition on a supplemental. S. Bond:I appreciate the Premier’s sensitivity to the fact thatallof us need to listen, to comm unicate and to work together. The mostdifficultpartof thatanswerforme…. I feelsadand disappointed thatthere is notasimpleanswer to that question. There is nothing thatprecludesthis Premierfrom put- Wednesday, June 2, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2403

ting in placeacommi ttee thatwouldfunction, wouldpar- ticipate, would listen in a respectful way. In fact, on Monday, the Premier said that “whatever steps we can take, whatever resources need to be brought to bear….” With the memberfor Skeena’s help and “with the help of other members of this House, I’m confident that we can bring together a plan that all of us can be proud of.” No one is suggesting thatwe take the lead. We wantto listen.

We wantto work with this government.We know the Third Party wantsto work with this government.If not now, when willwe putaside the politicaldifferencesand translate eloquent words into effective action? The Premierknows thatwe have members in this cham- berwho, sadly, have a far-too-personalconnection. They have the ability and the knowledge to provide a very unique perspective. Again to the Premier, willhe today take this smallbut important step and signal to First Nations leaders and allBritish Columbians thathe meantwhathe said about working together? Hon. J.

Horgan: Nothing precludes any of us from reaching outto Indigenous Peoplesin ourconstituencies to hear their stories, to bring those stories back to this Legislature, to awaitdirection from leadership — whether it be Chief Casimir, whether it be other leaders in com- munities across British Columbia. I believe it’s appropriate thatwe give aperiod of time to understand the fullcomplexities of the issues before us.

I think thatthere is asense — by those thatI’ve spokenwith, atany rate — in Indigenous leadership thatthe appropri- ate thing to do is to respectthe wishes of peoplewho are grievingand followingprotocols atthis time. There may be a pointin the not-too-distantfuture where the suggestion from the Leaderof the Opposition wouldbe appropriate for us, but I don’t believe that time has yet arrived. P. Milobar: The apprehension by the Premieris a little baffling, in thatthis commi ttee is already outthere. Itjust has notconvened. The Premier couldconvene ittoday if he wanted.

This is not just about my comm unity of Kam loops, which is, of course, the focal point, and Kúkpi7 Casimir, who’s shouldering such a burden. The Premier is abso- lutely correct.I reached outto the Chieftoday. She indic- ated the Premier and the ministerhave been in comm u- nication. There are 203 FirstNations in the provincethatare deal- ing with the falloutfrom whathappened in Kam loops and what was discovered in Kam loops.

The Standing Com- mittee on Aboriginal Affairs wouldprovide a safe place, a non-partisan place, for allof those leadership peopleto be ableto reach outand discuss things in a safe way with members of this Legislative Assembly on whatthey need, what their individualized needs are for their comm unity. Again to the Premier, why is there such apprehension to convene a selectstanding commi ttee thatis already listed as one thatmeetsfrom time to time? This is the Premier’s second term. Thatcommi ttee has metforexactly zero days so far in those two terms. Hon. J.

Horgan: The country, through the Truth and Reconciliation Commi ssion, wentthrough hearings, went through testimonies, went through very, very moving testimonies from Indigenous Peoplesacross the country. That work has been done. There are now memories and tragic experiences being relived by Indigenous Peoples across the country.

I believe, atthis point,it’s appropriate thatgovernments focus on the work we’ve already commi tted to, thatbeing implementing all of the calls to action of the Truth and Reconciliation Commi ssion and waiting for Indigenous leadership to tellus where they wantus to go, notjustas a government but as a legislature. [2:10 p.m.] When thatcallcomes, I can assure the memberthatI’ll be rightthere with him to strike a commi ttee, if that’s the appropriate way to address issues thathave been exhaust- ively canvassed by a commi ssion thatwas focused on get- ting to the bottom of the tragic history of residential schools in this country.

Those recomm endations are not yetfully implemen- ted. I think thatthe work now is to ensure thatwe’re fol- lowing the direction of Indigenous Peoplesto getto the bottom of these issues on their timefram e, not on this Legislature’s timefram e. Mr. Speaker: The Opposition House Leader, supple- mental. P. Milobar: This was the Premier on Monday, and I quote: “We have an obligation to release resourceswhere we can, to improve people’s lives, and we’re commi tted to doing that.I know thatthe memberopposite willholdus accountable for that.

I look forward to that.” The Premier seems to be saying that today is not a good day to convene a commi ttee. It doesn’t m ean we have to m eet.Itdoesn’tm ean we’d be compelling Chiefs and othercomm unity m embers to com e and m eetwith thatcommi ttee instantly. Butitwouldbe in placealready to be ableto reactas situations arise across this province with the fallout of what’s been discovered in Kam loops over the last week. Insteadwhatwe’re hearing the Premiersay is: “Meh, not today. Maybe next week. I don’t know.

I’ll stick my fin- gerin the airand see which way the wind is blowing, and maybe we can convene at sometime in the future.” Why is there such hesitation to convene a commi ttee the Premier seems to be willing to talk about, seems to acknowledge probably willhave to startmeetingsometime in the future, buthe doesn’twantto have itconvened soon- er, rather than later? 2404 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, June 2, 2021

Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the memberfor his interven- tion. I’ll take it under advisement. GOVERNMENT POLICIES ON FOREST INDUSTRY AND PROTECTION OF OLD-GROWTH FORESTS S. Furstenau: There was some hope in the run-up to yesterday’s forestry announcement that the Premier and ministermightbelatedly wake up to what’s happening in ourforestsand recognize the need to act,thatthey might finally show the leadership thatis so desperately called for in this province.

Instead, they pedalled the same oldmisleading figures, figures that have been widely and repeatedly debunked abouthow much oldgrowth is leftand whatsteps they’ve taken. They announced nothing to de-escalate the situation at Fairy Creek. No logging deferrals, nothing to support Indigenous comm unities and forestworkers to transition to asustainablefuture forthis province, as opposed to con- tinuing to liquidate whatis leftof the old-growth forestsin B.C.

To do what they did yesterday, to release some vague promisesfordown the line withoutany concrete actions to protect ancient foreststoday, essentially guarantees years of conflictin ourforests,years of peopletrying to protect these ecosystems, years of worsening divisions and years where comm unities and workers are keptdependenton a fundamentally unsustainable resource, until it runs out. My question is to the Premier. Whatdoes he say to the majority of British Columbians who wantto see the lastof B.C.’s oldgrowth protected and to the peoplewho voted for him with the belief that he would be true to his word?

Hon. K. Conroy: What the member is insinuating is justinaccurate. We are working to protectadditionalareas on an ongoing basis. What we announced yesterday will help us to do just that. In fact, we expect to be able to announce additional deferrals this summ er. We are doing this work in part- nership with FirstNations, and with respectfor how they want to manage their lands. This is critical, and it was the key recomm endation of the old-growth report.

We were able to m ove really quickly to protect over 200,000 hectares of old growth in September, because we did those important discus- sions, those criticalgovernment-to-government discus- sions with Indigenous nations. We will continue to do that. We willcontinue to addto deferrals, with m ore to com e this summ er. Mr. Speaker: The Leaderof the Third Party, supplemen- tal. S. Furstenau: We have a responsibility in here to be honestand to completely recognize thatwe have to main- tain the trustof people.

When the ministerand the Premi- ercontinually talk about200,000 hectares being protected, they know thatthatis notaccurate. They know whatthe scientists have said. They know what the truth is. [2:15 p.m.] The Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs has been very clear about what they need to see. That’s imm ediate logging deferrals, critical funding for conservation financing and Indigenous-led conservation initiatives. Grand ChiefStewartPhillip said thatto have good-faith conversations on forestry, we must put away the power saws.

Instead, this governmentis creating more economic dependency on old-growth logging in these comm unities and refusing to forge a pathway out. Yesterday the Premier said itwouldbe by 2023 before a new old-growth plan is introduced. So in the m ean- time, we willcontinue to lose these irreplaceableforests because of his refusal to stop this liquidation, and this despite the factthatpausing the harvestwhilethey com e up with a long-term plan is exactly whatthe oldgrowth review panelrecomm ended and exactly whatthe Premi- er promised to do. Now I expectthatthere’llbe an invoking of agreements. Let’s justbe clear.

In theirsubmission to the courts,Teal- Jones indicated that they wouldmake somewhere in the neighbourhood of $20 million off the tree farm licencein Fairy Creek, although others indicate thatitmightbe ten times that. In the agreement that this province came to, the revenue-sharing agreementforthe firstyear, $242,000 goes to Pacheedaht. So let’s be clear whose interests are being protected here. My question again is to the Premier. How much more of the lastoldgrowth in this province can we expectto see logged before this new old-growth plan comes into place? Hon. K. Conroy: Mr.

Speaker, I dotake exception to the member’s suggestion thatwe are misrepresentingthe facts, because the factsare very accurate. We have deferred and protected 200,000 hectares of oldgrowth throughout the province, and we expectto announce additionaldeferrals this summ er. What’s critical, and whatthe memberseems to be for- getting, is thatwe allstood in this House two years ago, we allunanimously accepted the declaration on the rightsof Indigenous Peoples,and we allsaid thatwe had to abide by that.Thatis justwhatwe are doing. We are reachingout to Indigenous nations.

We are reaching outto those rights and title holders, whose land the old growth sits on. We are talking to them, and talking to them about future deferrals. But we are doing it with respect, with understandingthatitis up to the nations, workingwiththe nations in those government-to-government discussions, and thatwe ensure thatwe are deferring land thatis their land, that is their territory. We are also bringing in other people. We are having Wednesday, June 2, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2405

those important discussions with Indigenous nations. We’re also bringing to the tablethe comm unities thatare affected, the workers thatare affected, the companiesthat are affected, but also the environmentalists who are expressing their concerns. We are bringing them to the table. We are working together. As I have said, I can assure the memberthatwe willbe deferring more oldgrowth, more of those ancientforests, this summ er. U.S. TARIFFS ON SOFTWOOD LUMBER J. Rustad:Mr. Speaker, there is adisturbing pattern that we’re seeing in British Columbia. The Premier shows up, he makes promises, and then nothing.

He talks big, then disappears whilethousands of workers and theirfamilies are at risk. We saw itwith the cruise ship industry, as the Premier’s flippant attitude led to a new U.S. law allowing them to skirtourports.Afterpromisingin 2017 thathe wouldgeta softwood lumberdealdone, we’re seeing the same pattern. The U.S. Comm erceis doubling the tariffs on B.C. lumber, and where is the Premier? He’s absent. Can the Premiertellus whatdetailed steps he’s taken to fight this punitive action? Hon. J. Horgan: Hon. Speaker, notone cruise ship has gone up the coast of British Columbia in 15 months.

I don’tknow where the Liberals have been during thatperi- od of time. There is no impacton the cruise ship industry today. We’ve had assurances from the…. Interjections. Hon. J. Horgan: We’ve had assurances. There’s no industry moving anywhere in the world. Whatplanetdo you live on? What planet do you live on? For the guy from Nechako Lakes,in Nechako, there are no cruise ships on StuartLake. There’s a hospitalbeing builtthere, which was neglected for16 years by those guys.

Butto have that memberstand up and say that somehow the province of British Columbia has destroyed cruise ships internation- ally is just folly. It’s absolute folly, hon. Speaker. [2:20 p.m.] With respectto the pointthatI think he was trying to make aboutsoftwood lumber— an internationaldispute betweenparties,Canadaand the United States,where Brit- ish Columbia has a profound roleto play — I justspoke withthe Prime Minister. I’ve beenspeakingwiththe Prime Minister, as wellas the ambassadorin Washington.

When it is safe to travel, I will be returning to Washington to talk to the Comm erceSecretary, to remind them thatBrit- ish Columbiasoftwood has been building houses in North America… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. J. Horgan: …for a long, long time, and itwillfor the foreseeable future. Mr. Speaker: The memberforNechako Lakes on asup- plemental. J. Rustad:You know, the Premierlikes to huff and puff. There is a lot of talk, but there’s very little action. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Let’s listen to the question, please. Let’s listen to the question. Member, start again. Member, continue. J.

Rustad:The last time he went to Washington, what did he do? He came back with a donation cheque. He didn’t actually get anything done. Now, we know he’s blowing off the Alaskans, insteadof protecting ourports.Then he helped…. Then he actually willjoin with the U.S. when itcomes to opposing ournat- uralresources.The Premierof New Brunswick led a del- egation, pre-COVID, down to defend the forestsector in the U.S., and B.C. didn’ttake partin that.B.C. represents 50 percent of Canadian softwood exports.

This is what the Premier had to say on Friday, when asked about the issue here, of these tariffs: “I talked to the Prime Ministerthis week aboutengaging with the U.S. governmentone more time on softwood lumberdisputes.” That’s it. Thousands of workers and familiesand com- munities are at risk, punitive damage is being done, and the Premier asked the Prime Minister for a phone call. Why is this Premiernotusing every toolin the box to fight these tariffs? Hon. J.

Horgan: I realizethat at the latter days of the former Liberal government, that member made it into cabinetas the Ministerof Forests.It must be a profound disappointmentforhim thathe was notableto resolve the softwood lumberdealwhen he hadthe opportunity to do something aboutit.When there was a Premierfrom that party sitting on this sideof the House, there were no over- tures to Washington. There was no trip to stand up for workers. It was only when the government changed that that happened. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. J.

Horgan: Now, I appreciate thatthatmustbe a hard pill for the member to swallow. But we have been workingdiligently with officials in the United States.We’ve been working with the federal government. This is an 2406 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, June 2, 2021

internationaldispute. Sometimes I think the B.C. Liberals assume thatjustif you wish somethingto happen, thatwill be the case. It’s always about… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members, come to order. Hon. J. Horgan: …hard work, and that’s what we’ve been endeavouring to do with our partners in the U.S., with ouralliesatthe federallevelas wellas with Premier Higgsfrom New Brunswick. He and I are aligned on these conversations, across the country. We’re going to continue to work togetherin the interestof Canadaand the interest of British Columbia. SOFTWOOD LUMBER NEGOTIATIONS AND TRADE WITH U.S.

M. de Jong: You know, in orderto resolve something, you have to make ita priority. There is absolutely no evid- ence that this Premier and this government have made softwood lumber a priority. I understand the sensitivity. The Premierhas compiled quite a record when it comes to his dealings with the United States on two of the singlebiggestbilateralissues. He has bumbled and stumbled and failed miserably. Whether he wants to admit it or not, there’ll be cruise ships sailing up the coastof British Columbia,pastcoastal comm unities.

They won’t be stopping there, because this Premier ignored warning after warning after warning about a congressional initiative that he dismissed as an impossibility and thatended up passing unanimously and now is enthreatened to become apermanentfeature of the legal landscape in the U.S. Now the U.S. is setto doublethe lumbertariffs against the forestproductsthatwe exportinto the U.S. Whathas the Premier done? Well, apparently, a coupleof days ago itoccurred to him to mention itin a phone callwith the Prime Minister.

Bravo. [2:25 p.m.] B.C. accounts for over half of the softwood lumber exportsthatCanada makes to the U.S. This is B.C.’s issue. This is ourAuto Pact.Itis the responsibility of the Premier and the governmentof British Columbiato leadnationally on this issue, and the Premier has failed to do that. Has the Premier contacted congressional leaders and building retailers in the U.S. to remind them that these tariffs are going to add to the costs that consumers pay already on record-setting lumber prices? Has he done that?

Has he coordinated and contacted the Premiers of Quebec, Ontario, New Brunswick, Alberta to lead and coordinate a strategy to respond to this latestexampleof protectionism? Has he done anything thatprevious Premiers and gov- ernmentshave done to lead British Columbia and estab- lish British Columbia at the forefront of achieving a fair softwood lumberagreementthatrecognizes ourposition as leaders in softwood lumber in North America? Hon. J. Horgan: A second failed ForestsMinisterin the officialopposition, asecond failed minister. Thatone over- saw the closure of 130 mills. Interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Members, come to order. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members, you had the chance to ask a question. Now is the chance to listen to the answer. Hon. J. Horgan: I can’tstop thinking aboutglory days in my mind here. “Rememberwhen? Rememberwhen?” says the Leader of the Official Opposition. The former leaderof the B.C. Liberal government did notgo to Washington, didnotengage with the Comm erce Secretary, did notengage with U.S. officials. I did. Thank you, hon. Speaker. I have been leading in weekly calls with my colleaguesacross the country, keeping us alltogether as differentinterestsemerge.

We are in aglobalpandemic. I often think I have to remind people about that. I want to getback to this cruise ship issue, because I think the misrepresentation by the official opposition on this is harmf ulto ourtourism industry. It’s harmf ulto our relationship with the United States. I’m in regularengage- ments with… Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member. Hon. J. Horgan: …governors up and down the west coast of North America. They fully understand the important role British Columbia plays in keeping us all together. The legislation thatpassed in the U.S., if you hadreadit, sunsetswhen the borders open.

If itis the position of the B.C. Liberalparty thatwe shouldopen ourborders before we’re certain thatthe peoplecoming to British Columbia have been vaccinated, if they believe thatwe shouldopen our borders just because a cruise ship industry, based in Norway, thinks it’s a good idea, they’ve gotanotherthink coming. Mr. Speaker: The member for Abbotsford West on a supplemental. M. de Jong: If the Premierthinks he has any credibility whatsoeveron this issue, he really is dreaming. He was the Premierthatstood in this House and said: “Itwouldnever Wednesday, June 2, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2407

happen. Fear not.It’s alla myth.” Nextthing you know, it passes unanimously. If he thinks he has any credibility on predicting whatthe Congress of the United States is going to do, he shoulddream on, because no one on this sideof the House believes him. Itwas allgoingto be so easy, fouryears ago. The Premier said he was going to go down to Washington, and he was going to cutadeal. And then nothing happened. His capa- city for re-writing history….

I satin the westwing of the White House with the Premierof British Columbia as we negotiated a softwood lumberagreementfor British Col- umbia.I satwith leaders of comm unitiesfrom British Col- umbia in the Centre Block in Ottawa when we were pres- suring the Prime Minister of the day to get a softwood agreement. These are the things that leaders in British Columbia shouldbe doing on behalfof forest-dependentcomm unit- ies in British Columbia, and he hasn’t done anything. In fact,yesterday he released whatis supposed to be his defin- itive statementon forestry — 30 pages. I readall30.

I can’t even find a mention of the softwood lumberagreementin thatdocument.There’s notone mention thatBritish Col- umbia’s leading industry — 30 percentof ourexports,$12 billion in tradeand tens of thousands of jobs in British Columbia— is underattack by protectionistsin the U.S. It doesn’t even rate a mention in his defining document.

Based on his track record of neglect and failure, why shouldthe womenand menwho work in forest-dependent comm unitieshave any faith thatthey won’tsufferthe same fate as the people that used to work in the cruise ship sector, thatthey won’tbe standing, justlike them, on the shore, waving as the ship sails without them? [2:30 p.m.] Hon. J. Horgan: Just,again, to putone more line on the record here. Norwegian Cruise Line stillconsiders Victor- ia and Vancouverto be premierdestinations. They willbe premierdestinations oncewe open the borders, when itis safe to do so.

That’s the willof the peopleof Canada and British Columbia. Itmay notbe the willof the peopleon that side of the House. Now thatwe’re talking aboutwhere the formerFinance and ForestsMinisterused to sit,I’m wondering how many lunch rooms he went into when he closed 130 mills in British Columbia. I wonderhow many living rooms, how many kitchen tablesof out-of-work forest workers he sat atto talk aboutthe impactof his policieson theirjobs and theirlivelihoods.

I’m wondering where the former Min- isterof Forestswas when Mackenzie, represented by that sideof the House, losta pulp mill, losta sawmilland saw logsdriving right by to Prince George. Where was your commi tment to comm unities then, hon. Member? I’m delighted thatwe’ve seen the revivalof agood oppo- sition member, but sadly, you’re singing the wrong song.

People want our borders closed till they’re safe to open them, and we’re working to revitalizeforestry in an era of climate change, in an erawhere pine beetlesand forest fire infestations have liquidated massive amounts of our forests.We have work to dotogetherto fix that,and it’s not helped by going back to 2004, the glory days of the former member from this side of the House. T.

Stone: If you want to revitalizethe forest sector in British Columbia, you wouldbe heading down to Wash- ington, and you wouldbe making sure thatyou followed throughon yourcommi tmentto negotiate asoftwood deal here for British Columbians. The Premiertalks aboutthe willof the public.He talks aboutthe willof forestry workers. Whatthe peopleof Brit- ish Columbia wantis they wantto have jobs wellinto the future. Thatstartsby making sure thatwe’ve gotaccess to the U.S. market. The Premierpromised….

Itwas the very firstthing that he promised British Columbians going into the 2017 elec- tion, and coming outof it.The very firstthing he said was, “I’m going to go to Washington, and I’m going to do what the former government couldn’t do” — even though we didactually doit;we didnegotiate adeal. “I’m going to go down to Washington,” the Premiersaid, “and I’m going to getthis softwood deal done.” Well, that was in 2017 and 2018, and it’s not done, and that’s on this Premier’s watch.

When is he going to actually join with New Brunswick, when is he going to join with Quebec, when is he going to join with Albertaand actually stand up and fightforforest workers and make sure thatCanadaand British Columbia get a good softwood deal and get one now? Hon. J. Horgan: Of course, now we have two members — actually three members, when you count the member forNechako Lakes — living in the past.The future in our forestsectorhas been decimated by pine beetle, decimated by fires,decimated by climate change. We need to look ata new way of doing business in British Columbia. Lumberpriceshave neverbeen higher.

I don’t see any patson the back for the highestcomm odity pricesin his- tory, because it has nothing to do with this government and everything to dowith scarcity and the changing world we live in. Why you’re on thatsideof the House is thatyou haven’t recognized…. They have not recognized that the world has changed. Forestry mustchange. The intention paperis focused on that. Rave reviews from the industry. Rave reviews from comm unities. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members, come to order. Hon. J. Horgan: Rave reviews from workers. And where are the Liberals?

Back in 2004 in the glory days. [End of question period.] 2408 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, June 2, 2021

Orders of the Day Hon. M. Farnworth:In this chamber, I callcommi ttee stage on Bill 6, Accessible British Columbia Act. In the Douglas Fir Room,

Section A, I call continued estimates debate for the Ministry of Mental Health and Addictions. In

Section C, the Birch Room, I callcontinued estimates debate for the Ministry of Children and Family Develop- ment and Child Care. Commi ttee of the Whole House BILL 6 — ACCESSIBLE BRITISH COLUMBIA ACT The House in Commi ttee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill 6; S.ChandraHerbert in the chair. The commi ttee met at 2:35 p.m. The Chair: Members, we’re just going to take a short two-minute recess in orderto getallthe appropriate folks in the room. S o we’ll just be on recess for two minutes. The commi ttee recessed from 2:36 p.m. to 2:38 p.m. [S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.] On clause 1. The Chair: I’d like to call this commi ttee into session. We are here, of course, looking at Bill 6, the Accessible British Columbia Act. On clause 1 I see the member for Surrey South. Member, please proceed. S.

Cadieux: I’m justwondering if the ministerwantsto make any opening statements before I get started. Hon. N. Simons: Generally the opening comm entsare reserved for the second reading. I’m really pleased to be here and ableto answer ques- tions that the members have — the member for Surrey South and the memberforPeaceRiverNorth. The oppor- tunity to providesome explanations to certain clauses will be welcomed. I look forward to doing my best to ensure thateveryone has a good understanding of the Accessible B.C. Act. S. Cadieux: Thank you, minister, it also gave me a chanceto see you. I hadn’tseen you yettoday.

This hybrid sitting doesn’tallow quite as cordiala back-and-forth, so I apologize if this becomes a little awkward. I’m very happy to be here today on behalfof ourcaucus, as the critic for accessibility and inclusion, to be talking aboutthe AccessibleB.C. Act,asking some questions, and getting the ministeron record with some answers to some of the things thataren’tin the act,some of the things that we don’t see and why. [2:40 p.m.] The comm unity is, I wouldsay, largely pleased thatthis is moving ahead, aftera very long time of advocating for it.

But they’re also tentative in theirresponse, given that the actis largely empty. It’s an enabling bill, with very little defined. Peopleare going to have to trustgovernmentan awful lot in this regard, and there is some apprehension there. Hopefully, through this time today, we can provide orthe ministercan providesome of thatsolace, I guess, to people, that in fact this will make a change. I also wantto mention thatI see thatNigelhas joined us this afternoon to interpretforus.

I guess itwillbecome clear, butmy question is: is thatatthe requestof the gov- ernment, or was that a decision of the Legislative Assembly? Hon. N. Simons:Itwas atthe requestof the accessibility secretariat,partof my ministry thatrequested thatwe have the translation services. S. Cadieux: Well, that’s great. I am very glad to see it and appreciate that that is with us today. I guess it leads me to my nextquestion. We’re talking about

an act that we’re looking to putin placeto essentially ensure thatbar- riers don’t exist anymore, because they continue to exist, and the ministerknows this, across ourprovince, across all aspects of life for people with disabilities. One of the barriers thatwe willtalk aboutalittlefurther in the actis around comm unication and language. I guess one wouldhope thatthis billis going to enshrine the right and the obligation forthis House to ensure thatASL inter- pretingis availableforallof ourdiscussions and debatesso thatallpeoplecan access the work of this House equitably.

Let’s move on a little, because we’ll get back to that. How willthis actand how willthe ministerand the min- istry be accountable to the groups and individuals that have provided significantguidanceoverthe lastnumberof years through consultations, providing very clearrequire- mentswhich couldhave been codified in this actand, in fact, have been codified in other jurisdictions?

Others pointed to and recognized other standards, which have been wellresearched and developed, thatare codified in other places in our country or around the worldas leading examplesof the way to do accessibility and inclusion on any numberof fronts,from the physical environment to the digital world. We are now looking atan acttoday thatdoesn’tcodify anything in the act. All of that work will now go on at some point in the future, when the minister directs. So how willthe ministerbe accountableto allof those people who were expecting to see some change with the passage of this act?

Wednesday, June 2, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2409

[2:45 p.m.] Hon. N. Simons: I appreciate the question. It’s too bad thatwe can’tbe in the same room to interactin this way, but I appreciate the question. The accountability forthe ministry is setin anumberof differentways. First,I justwantto say thatthe entire pro- cess of getting to where we are today was seen as inclus- ive and was inclusive. Itwas seen as involving the particip- ation of a variety of voices,and it was. I believe we have before us a robustbillthatwillcoverthe interestsof those who have been pushing for this legislation.

You know, every jurisdiction has perhaps a different approach to how legislation is written, butfundamentally, the minister is required to, first of all, put forward an action plan, which willbe released by fall. Thatwillsetout the government’s prioritiesand expectations thatthe pub- liccan have. In addition to that,there is an annualreport from my ministry. Every five years, an independentreview.

I believe that the principlesthat we’ve embedded into this legislation should give strong direction to all those concerned that this is legislation that is going to reflect the interestsof British Columbians, the interestsof people who facebarriers every day. Once we have the standards, oncewe have prioritized the sectors thatthe standards will apply to, once we getinto the writing of those standards and regulations, I think, I hope and I expect that those who have any remnantsof concerns aboutthe strength of the act will have their fears allayed. S. Cadieux: Thank you, Minister.

I guess that’s exactly what I’m getting at. We couldhave codified what sectors are going to be included, and we couldbe listing the time- line here and notsix months from now whenthe minister’s office has had another six months to think about it. I am failing to see, atthis stage, how my life willbe any different,as we move forward, because I don’tknow what barriers the ministerwillsetforth to look atfirst,second, third — this year, nextyear, ten years from now. While I appreciate there willbe reportson progress, reportson progress will only list the things that government has chosen to do.

So that’s, I think, the fear that exists. I asked aquestion of the ministeryesterday in estimates aboutwhatgovernmenthas done to getahead of the act. I’m going to try thatagain here. Again, trying to justbuild some contextforthe questions thatwe’llgo through in the more detailed discussion of the various sections, but…. I guess, if you want to use the adage: fail to plan, plan to fail.

So what has government done to prepare forthis legislation coming into effect?Whathas govern- m ent done to getout ahead of it and to m ake sure that m ore British Columbians are going to be ableto recog- nize changes that are coming about as a result of this — in theirinteractions with government,forexample— seeing as the minister has articulated that government will com e first with the bill? [2:50 p.m.] Is there any sense from this ministerthatone ministry orserviceareaorCrown corp. has m ore significantwork to do to align with the m easures thatwilleventually be dictated by this actas they com e into force?Forexample: government call centres, particular government build- ings, offices.

Can the ministerjustplease explain whatwork has gone on to plan ahead for the work that will come? Hon. N. Simons: The member for Surrey South did mention a lot of things before she came to her question aboutwhatwillbe done. I have this tendency to wantto go back and bring every sentence thatshe said, because I do think thatthere couldbe peoplewho wish they could justbite into something thatwas ready-madeand ready to go. Butourprincipleis thatwe don’tdo thatwithoutthe consultation and being informed by the comm unity. That’s going to continue. Ithappened already in the development of this legislation.

We have aParliamentary Secretary forAccessibility, the member for Chilliwack, whose sole— not solerespons- ibility, but a major part of his responsibilities will be to ensure thatthe consultation process with the comm unity continues. It will be a form of direction for us, in fact. We had a large consultation process that took place before I appeared on the scene, and it has continued since. We have the accessibility advisory commi ttee, which was key in ensuring thatthe importantaspectsof the legislation were enshrined in it.We’re going to con- tinue to do that.

I think the demonstration of our government’s com- mitm ent is reflected in other things that we’ve done as well, including thatwe recognize thatincom e is a m ajor barrier, in som e cases, forpeoplewith disabilities. We’ve m ade, I think, large strides towards addressing som e of those issues. Our commi tm ent to this legislation is to ensure that British Columbia becom es a m ore inclusive and m ore accessibleprovince for everyone and that the beauty of our province can be accessed by everyone as we reduce the barriers. That’s the focus of this legislation — to reduce barriers.

As much as the member wouldlike us to have some- thingwith the standards already written, we have notwrit- ten the standards. That’s comingnext.That’s goingto be an important part of this through the summ er and into the fall and as we go forward, because standards need to be developed for a lotof differentsectors. We haven’tidenti- fied them all. We’ve putdown a few as examples,butthat work is to come. [2:55 p.m.] S. Cadieux: I guess that’s entirely the problem or the concern. I mean, there has been an advisory council in 2410 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, June 2, 2021

place. Did the advisory council advise government to phase the act in starting with government? Hon. N. Simons: We heard consistently through the consultation process that government shouldbe the first to engage in this process, butthere was obviously a lotof appetite forus to continue to work in the othersectors, as well, while this process rolls out. S. Cadieux: There has, up till now, not been a lot of transparency around who is providing advice to govern- ment.There is acommi ttee, butthe minutesare notpublic.

That’s why I’m asking the question, trying to getasense of what advice was provided by who, because certainly, not everyone is particularly thrilled with the product at this point. Now, that said, I am supportive that we’re moving ahead, and we’re goingto getthere, I realize. I justthink we couldhave been alotfurtheraheadby now, afterthree full years of consultation and discussion. If government had decided to delve into any particular area, they couldhave and did not. I guess that’s the sort of concern we’re get- ting athere.

Notsure whatthe commi tmentlevelis to get- tingthingsactually done, to make change, giventhatbeing denied access is being denied a human right. Yetwe know these barriers exist. We know there are government buildings that people can’t get into. We know there are places, government buildings, govern- m entoffices,thatdon’thave adequate washroom facilit- ies. We know thatthere are m embers of the publicwho can’taccess publicwebsites and documentsproperly. We know there are these challenges, yetwe are not setting forth atime fram e in which to fix them. I think that’s the concern.

We’re going to move quickly here into the

definitions, with justone more question before we do. Thatis: does the act, and does the minister, contemplate any exceptions? Will the minister commi t today that no exceptions will be made, eitherexpressly or by omission through regula- tion…? What I mean by that, if I need to be more clear, is: willthe ministercommi tthatthere are no areas of gov- ernment,no areas of society, whetherthatbe municipalit- iesorwhetherthatbe the corporate business worldwhere they interactwith the public,thatwillbe exempted from the future regulations and standards put forward by this act? [3:00 p.m.] Hon. N. Simons: Yeah.

The actthatwe’ve putforward providesforthe broadestrange of potentialstandards, and that’s the intention — thatitbe broadforthatvery reason. Itwillhave a broad…. It’s enabling legislation. It’s a wide net. Nobody is excluded because of this legislation. S. Cadieux: Just to clarify, the minister will not, by omission, from listing in future regulation, or expressly through regulation exempt anybody from the legislation and the standards that will follow? Hon. N.

Simons: I want to be clear that this enabling legislation allows for the broadest standard application, as we determine with the Provincial Advisory Commi t- tee.They’re going to be the ones that will be using the advice and will be following that principle that I men- tioned two days ago in estimates — thatthere is no inten- tion for any sector in society to be excluded from the responsibilities that we, as British Columbians, expect of ourspaces,of ourplaces.We wantto make sure thatBrit- ish Columbia,in oursociety, becomes more accessibleand more inclusive. [3:05 p.m.] There is no intention to contemplate exemptions.

I wouldlike to pointout,though, thatthe ProvincialAdvis- ory Commi ttee and the technicalexpertise thatwillhelp inform thatcommi ttee are going to be the key in ensuring that these principles are met. S. Cadieux: I certainly hope that will be true, because I know there are, for example, numbers of elementary schools today that studentswith wheelchairs or teachers with wheelchairs cannot access. Those are underprovin- cialauthority, and I certainly hope thatwheelchairaccess- ibility is one of the standards we’re going to define. It’s in the building code, but that doesn’t seem to be enough.

I’m just pointing out to the ministerthat there is a lot of work to do. The factthatnone of ityetis defined is just concerning. I appreciate his intentthatitbe broadand that there not be exceptions. I will take him on his word. As we m ove to the

definitions, can the minister provide som e understanding for m e here why the decision was m ade to define disability as the result of an interaction of an impairm ent and a barrier? Why is a disability contingent on the act of interaction of an impairm ent and a barrier? Hon. N. Simons: The definition that we’ve applied is what’s called the socialmodeldefinition of disability. That is, we describe what the barrier is — not the individual facing the barrier but the barrier itself.

The reason we decided to go with this particular kind of definition was thatitwas, firstof all, the preferred definition, and itcoin- cideswith other jurisdictions, and it coincideswith the United Nations convention. S. Cadieux: Why then did government decide to use its own definition and not align, for example, with the Accessible Canada Act’s definition? [3:10 p.m.] Hon. N. Simons: The definition that we chose was based on our deliberations, discussions and research in looking atotherjurisdictions. It’s consistentwith the fed- Wednesday, June 2, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2411

eralact.We didn’tcopy theirwords, butthis, we believe, is the bestdefinition thatreflectsthe intentof ouractand is a reflection of British Columbians’ perspective. S. Cadieux: Can the ministerexplain, then, why a ref- erence to comm unication disabilities or comm unication impairments is not made? In the definition of “impair- ment” itincludes“physical, sensory, mental, intellectualor cognitive,” butitdoes notincludelearning orcomm unica- tion. Can the ministerexplain how those groups of people will see themselves represented? Hon. N. Simons: Hon. Chair, sorry.

Ittook m e a few seconds just to m ake sure that the answer is compre- hensive. [3:15 p.m.] Essentially, I go back to the…. The types of

definitions that we’ve included in this legislation are illustrative that comm unication is not excluded from this legislation. In fact,it’s in the definition of “impairment.” It’s an illustrat- ive, non-exhaustive list of impairments,clarifying what’s contemplated in the “Barriers” section, in

section 2. There is no barrierthat’s excluded from the contempla- tion of this act.I wantto make sure thatthe memberrec- ognizesthatsimply because aparticulardisability may not be specifically mentioned, it’s remembered that an illus- trative, non-exhaustive list is what we’ve included in this legislation so as to ensure that we do not allow for the exclusion of any person or circumstance. S. Cadieux: I’m goingto need some more from the min- ister on that, because I don’t see it that way.

The defini- tions are listed in the act.“Disability” means “an inability to participate fully and equally…as a result of the inter- action of an impairment and a barrier.” Then “impair- ment” includes “a physical, sensory, mental, intellectual or cognitive impairment,whetherpermanent,temporary or episodic.” It doesn’t say “and other things.” It doesn’t say “like these.” Itsays “includes.” Itdoesn’tsay thatother things are not listed but would be included.

When, certainly, we have legislation atthe federallevel that expressly includes learning and comm unication in theirdefinition of impairment, having legislation on the books thatis differentand excludesis more likely to be a problem, not just from a perspective of ensuring people feel included underthe act but, in fact, in how it will be interpreted as we go on. We know that,for a fact,invisibledisabilities like dys- lexia and othercomm unications disabilities, whetherthat be deafness or otherlanguage issues, are often forgotten.

Itis much easierfor peopleto think aboutaccessibility in terms of a ramp or a power door. But this legislation is notseekingjustto ensure we have ramps and powerdoors. This is seeking to ensure allpeople, regardless of impair- ment, regardless of barrier, have access. So I find it con- cerning that we don’t see the need to expressly include learning disabilities and comm unication in the definition of impairment. I also question, I guess, for the minister…. You know what?

I’m going to leave it there and see if the minister has anything more on that,first— if he wantsto explain again how this is somehow not an exhaustive list. It cer- tainly looks like an exhaustive list to me. [3:20 p.m.] Hon. N. Simons: The key word here is “includes,” and in legislative drafting terms, “includes” is the specialword. Itincludes.It’s a non-exhaustive list,and making itmore specificand adding particular

definitions I think restricts ourability to ensure thatit’s as broadan application as pos- sible, because each of those

definitions becomes subjectto its own

interpretation. What we’re saying is that “includes” means these and everything — like includes. It doesn’t say “is only.” It doesn’tsay “means.” Itsays “includes,” and I think thatthat reflectsthe intentof the legislation to be as broadly applied as possible and to ensure that we don’t exclude anybody. S.

Cadieux: Well, I wouldanticipate that the language in the federal act does the same — means “any impair- ment,including a physical, mental, intellectual, cognitive, learning, comm unication or sensory impairment — or a functionallimitation — whetherpermanent,temporary or episodic…evidentornot,that,in interaction with a barri- er, hinders a person’s full…participation in society.” I wouldargue that the challenge we have, Minister, is then: why includephysical?Mostobvious thing outthere. The most unlikely to be not understood by the average person. Butit’s in there.

Sensory, mental, intellectual, cog- nitive — why choose those ones? Why notchoose sensory, mental, intellectual, learning, and leave out physical and comm unication? When we’re atthis stage thatwe’re needing to…. We’re bringing in abill. We’ve hadallthis discussion aboutallof the various impairmentsand hadinputfrom allthe people with all of these afflictions who encounter barriers on a daily basis. I wouldexpectwe woulddoourbestto include the most exhaustive list we could, even if it is still a list thatis meantto be unending, where otherthingscouldbe interpreted oradded.

That’s great.Itmeans we’re notbeing definitive in saying: no, we won’t include that. However, by not including it now, we are essentially excludingit.We are excludingitin the minds of the people who willbe reading the legislation, who willbe interpret- ing the legislation and building the regulations. We have no idea, at this point in time, who will be on the com- mittee, who willbe on the technicalcommi ttees. How will theirexpertise be assessed and assured in terms of their ability to include all of these groups in the consultations?

We’re being asked to placean awfullotof trustin gov- ernment.When disability advocacy groups are asking us, 2412 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, June 2, 2021

loudly, “Please, don’t forgetabout us,” I think we have to consider that we’ve missed something. I don’tmean thatin away thatis in any way disparaging of the peoplewho drafted the legislation or came up with this list.However, this is the time. We have an opportunity to ask these questions and make sure we’re doing the best job we can on behalfof allBritish Columbians and, in this case, on behalf of all people with disabilities, no matter whetherwe see them or understand them to be, or hope that other people will in the future.

I guess with that,I wouldlike to move the amendment that is on the order paper in my name. [CLAUSE 1, by adding the underlined text as shown: “impairment” includes a physical, sensory, mental, comm unica- tion, intellectual or cognitive impairment, whether permanent, temporary or episodic;] And clause 2, by adding, under“barriers,” digitalcom- munications.

I know we haven’t got to that stage yet,in terms of asking questions, but I think it’s important that these issues be raised. [3:25 p.m.] In doing so, I recognize thatI excluded “learning” from the listand wouldhope thatthe ministerwouldconsider, and that the House would allow, an amendment to the amendment to add “learning” to that list as well. I will take guidance from the Chair on any otherpro- cedural pieces we need. The Chair: Thank you. I willconfer.

Butjustfirstoff, I think the one thing we need to do is separate the amend- ment proposed, because I think there was a proposed amendment to clause 1 and a proposed amendment to clause 2 in the same amendment.We’re stillon clause 1, so we’llhave to dealwith the clause 1 proposed amendment first.I’lljustcheck in aboutadding “learning” in addition to that, as I don’t have a signed copy showing that that’s whatthe memberwants.We’llhave to confer. I’llbe back in touch in a moment. Thank you, Member. I appreciate the objective here.

Of course, afriendly amendmentsounds easy, butthe proced- ure thatwe’llneed to follow is…. We coulddoittwo ways. I wouldpropose thatif the membercouldgetto the Clerk the amendmentwith learningand comm unication togeth- er. Otherwise, we’llhave to considerthem as two separate amendments. So if the member’s ableto do that shortly, I’ll propose we take a three-minute recess, because I think it’s pretty clearwhatthe memberis wanting to dohere. We justneed to getitto the table, to the Clerk, and then distribute itto members to make sure we’re following good process.

We’ll just take a three-minute recess so that that can happen. Thanks, Members. The commi ttee recessed from 3:27 p.m. to 3:34 p.m. [N. Letnick in the chair.] TheChair: MemberforSurrey South, I understand you have some business to attend to. S. Cadieux: We do. With leave, I wouldlike to withdraw the amendmentthatI hadon the orderpaper, thatI moved amomentago, and withleave, wouldrequestthatwe move the amendment which has been circulated. [3:35 p.m.] The Chair: Okay. We’ll take care of the first item. The member has asked for leave to withdraw her amendment. Leave granted. Amendment withdrawn.

TheChair: MemberforSurrey South, wouldyou like to make a new motion? S. Cadieux: I’d like to move the amendment that has been distributed, adding the underlined text to clause 1. [CLAUSE 1, by adding the underlined text as shown: “impairment” includes a physical, sensory, mental, comm unica- tion, learning, intellectualor cognitive impairment,whetherper- manent, temporary or episodic;] On the amendment. S. Cadieux: As I spoke earlier, I think it’s fundamental that we do our best to expressly ensure that we have included the broadest language around

definitions. The ministermentions thatit’s notmeantto be an exhaustive list, but by excluding these two groups, which are often excluded, we have, I believe, setourselves up, or we will setourselves up, forgreaterconfusion and frustration and a sense of, honestly, a tiering of disabilities, thatsome are more importantthan others. I think it’s importantthatwe listthese here in the definition, and I wouldhope thatthe minister would support that. Hon. N. Simons: I thank the memberfor heramend- ment. As we talked about earlier, the proposed wording in the legislation is as broadas possible.

You cannotmake it more broad. Nobody is excluded. The amendment is notnecessary to ensure thatpeoplewith comm unications- related impairmentsare included, because the legislation already includes them, as currently drafted. The listof impairments,as I mentioned earlier, is illus- trative, not exhaustive, with the purpose being to clarify what’s contemplated in the definition of “barrier” in sec- tion 2. Ourlistis a littlemore stream lined, butthe

definitions are fully aligned with the socialmodelof disability applied in the United Nations convention on the rightsof persons with disabilities. For thatreason, I do thank the member Wednesday, June 2, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2413

for the amendment and the spirit in which it was intro- duced. However, I willnotbe supporting this amendment. The Chair: Thank you, Minister. If there’s anybody else that wouldlike to speak to the amendment, please let the Clerk know. A. Olsen: Thank you to my colleaguefrom Surrey South for moving this amendment.Certainly, I also have heard from our comm unity that this amendment is something that is needed for this legislation.

I think that in hearing the minister’s response, it’s importantto acknowledge that whilethis is an illustrative language in here and notmean- ing to be exhaustive, it does start to get into explaining what is included and what isn’t. In my opinion on this, you either start to list or not. From what I can see here, I think that from the advice that’s been given and the advocacy that’s been given and the requestsof ourcomm unities thatwe allrepresent,the addition that this amendment highlights is needed and requested and, I think, through this amendment, can be accomm odated.

Hearingthe minister, he’s choosingnotto accomm odate that,butpersonally, I think it’s a mistake. I think thatI’ll definitely be supporting this amendment. The Chair: Seeing no further speakers to the amend- ment, would Surrey South like to close the debate? [3:40 p.m.] S. Cadieux: I am somewhatdisappointed thatthe min- isterdoesn’tthink this is importantto include. I’m sure he has heard as loudly as I have from the comm unity about this.

Certainly, as a member of a comm unity that faces barriers on a regular basis, I recognize that my barriers are often much more publicand ranked, by default,some- times much furtherup the list.I’m concerned that….We have haditpointed outto us by Disability AllianceB.C., by members of the learning disability comm unity, that they feel very, very strongly that they are not included in this definition. I recognizeand respectthatthe ministerfeels otherwise from the perspective of drafting.

However, I can’tin good conscience move forward without this request to add those two simple words, which recognize and mean so much to agroup of peoplewho continually feelvery much left behind. So I would ask the minister one more time and the members of this House, please, to reconsider as they vote. The Chair: Members, you have the proposed amend- ment to the bill, introduced by the member for Surrey South. We’re voting on the amendment only to clause 1. Members, division has been called.

Pursuantto the ses- sional orderadopted on April 12, 2021, the division will be deferred to 30 minutes prior to the scheduled hourof adjournment of the afternoon sitting today. Clause 1 willbe stood down, and now we’llmove on to clause 2. On clause 2. S. Cadieux: Again, I understand…. I’m sure I’m going to getthe same type of answerfrom the ministeron this, thatit’s notan exhaustive list.Butagain, one of the chal- lenges that we find regularly in doing work to eliminate barriers is thatdigitalcomm unications are often an after- thoughtand notincluded.

Can the ministerspeak to why digitalcomm unication technologiesare notexplicitly con- templated under “Barriers”? Hon. N. Simons: I thank the memberforherquestion. She’s partly correct that, in fact, yes, we’re talking about legislative drafting and the terms and the terminology used in this process. It’s okay. I don’tmind explaining that sometimes language in legislation is interpreted in a cer- tain way.

ButI justwantto pointoutthatthe definition of “barrier,” which is akey term used throughoutthis legisla- tion, is “anything thathinders the fulland equalparticip- ation in society of a person with an impairment.” So once again, itpositions disability as a structuralissue in which society is responsible for removing these barriers. [3:45 p.m.] I think that with our definition, once again, we don’t limit it at all. We provide a broad explanation, because that’s the approach we’re taking with this legislation. S. Cadieux: I guess I wouldask this.

So then, looking forward to the point in time wherein the minister has appointed a commi ttee to look ata particularsetof barri- ers, if the language isn’texhaustive, how willwe ensure that they don’tjustuse the definition as sortof achecklist?“Oh, okay. Well, we looked atattitudes,practices,policies,infor- mation, comm unications and technologies. It doesn’t say digitaltechnology. So do we need to includethatornot?” I guess that’s my concern.

How willwe know, how willwe be certain, thatdigital technologies — digitalcomm unication, digitalcomm u- nication technologies, websites, apps, all the new and up-and-coming technology and, I recognize, som e we don’t even know yet — will be considered? What is to give us, as m embers of the comm unity who are watching this…? What is it that the minister can say or explain to give comf ort that those things will not be missed through this process? Hon. N.

Simons:I’m tryingto picture whatthe member is thinking of the people sitting around the provincial accessibility commi ttee table. [3:50 p.m.] This legislation is as broadly defined as possibleso we 2414 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, June 2, 2021

can take into account the changing society that we live in. I think it’s clear that, once again, we’ve intentionally madethe definition broadbecause it’s enabling legislation and because the definition of barrierdoesn’texcludedigit- al comm unications from the scope of this legislation.

I think that we shouldjust be confident — and I am confident, based on the participation and direction from not just the advisory commi ttee but the secretariat and the majorconsultation process thatwas undertaken in the developmentof this legislation — that,in fact,the disabil- ity comm unity willbe bestserved by the broadestdefini- tions and the work. The provincialadvisory commi ttee is going to be made up of peopleknowledgablein the areaand peopleworking in the sector and ensuring….

This is a goal of all British Columbians, I believe — to ensure that our province becomes as accessibleas possible, in allfacetsof oursoci- ety. The intention of the legislation, I think, is reflected in the words, which do not limit our scope. A. Olsen: I think, from the advocacy that I’ve heard from our comm unity across the province, that there is…. I hearthe ministersaying: “Trustus. We’re going to get it right in the regulation. Trust us.

We’re going to getit right through the process.” I think that what I’ve heard from the advocatesthathave contacted me, in some differ- ing states of exasperation — I have to note that it’s there — is thatthat’s similarlanguage to whatpeoplehave been hearing for many years. “Just trust us.

We’ll get it right.” I think, justto addemphasis to the pointthatwas made, whatpeopleare looking foris forthe legislation to capture certain aspectsof this work thatare importantfor people to ensure thatwe don’thave to justrely on the process get- ting itrightbutthatsome of these aspects,which people in our comm unities are finding to be important and are highlightingas importantto them, are actually entrenched in the work thatthe commi ttee and the ministry and the minister is going to do. I’m notsure thatI can putinto words whatmy colleague from Surrey Southhas beensaying.

I can tellyou thatfrom whatI’ve been hearing, peoplewantcertainty, notreassur- ancesbutcertainty thateven though the language is broad in the legislation, the specificsdon’t getlost in the work that’s going to be done. Then this advocacy needs to be picked up in the future. To the question thatthe ministerasked…. I think that’s what I’ve heard from the advocates. They wouldlike the specificity in the legislation to ensure that, then, those interestsand those desires and those needs are reflected in the outcomes. D.

Davies: Looking atclause 2, regarding “Ministerto promote the accessibility,” whatdoes the ministerconsider promoting accessibility looks like? If he can explain that. Hon. N. Simons:I’m afraid the memberis in the wrong section. We’re on clause 2. TheChair: PeaceRiverNorth, wouldyou like to direct your question to clause 2? You’ll wait? All right. Clause 2 approved. On clause 3. [3:55 p.m.] D. Davies:This is where this question belongs,I believe. I’ll ask it again, though, just in light of being online here. Whatdoes the ministerconsiderpromoting accessibil- ity looks like? Hon. N.

Simons: I thank the memberfor PeaceRiver North and the critic for SocialDevelopmentand Poverty Reduction. The roleof the ministeris to, firstof all, ensure thatwe lead with the implementation of the legislation — that I provide leadership in thatregard and ensure thatwe stay on track and on target.I’llbe working with and providing direction to the provincialadvisory commi ttee and ensur- ing that their work is focused where it needs to be. Promoting comm unity awareness through various methods, including major consultation processes, will be partof the developmentof the standards.

We’llbe working on a government action plan across government. Part of my job willbe to work with my cabinetcolleaguesand to do my best to work with the parliamentary secretary to ensure thathe knows the expectations, as they’re indicated in his mandate letter. It’s broad, and it’ll likely evolve as we go through it.

Essentially, the responsibility of the ministerwillbe to, in allways, promote the legislation, to impactthe legislation through agood process of developmentand to ensure that the public….Partof the parliamentary secretary’s roleis to ensure thatthe legislation is understood and implemented in accordance with whatBritish Columbians, as a whole, expect of this kind of legislation. D. Davies:Thank you to the ministerforthat.A littlebit of a list of things being done. Can the minister advise the House what the expected budget is for promoting this? [4:00 p.m.] Hon. N.

Simons: I justwantto pointoutthatthe first order of business, once royal assent is received, is that we’llestablish the provincialadvisory commi ttee. That’s a commi ttee madeup of up to 11 members, including half who represent people with lived experience. That initial action plan will be developed by the commi ttee in con- junction with the ministry. We’llbe obviously working on standards, and in the second year, when we start doing Wednesday, June 2, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2415

the greaterrollout,that’s when we’llbe going to Treasury Board forbudgetsubmissions forthatparticularaspectof the legislation. D. Davies: So no budget yet until this commi ttee is struck. A momentago, on my firstquestion, the ministersaid thathe’s going to be providing leadership, keeping things on track, making sure targetsare met.That’s good. What willbe the measurementformeasuringthe effectiveness of this, if the ministercan explain that?And then oncewe’re done this, we’ll just move on to clause 5. Hon. N. Simons: Thank you very much for the ques- tion.

In addition to the public feedback mechanisms, whichare builtinto the legislation, we work withthe feder- algovernmenton the Canadian survey on disability, which providesstatisticalinformation on the differentmeasure- mentsin terms of how peoplewith disabilitiesare faringin terms of employment and other measures. [4:05 p.m.] We’re obviously going to track ourown numbers about peoplewith disabilities who are within the jurisdiction of the Ministry of SocialDevelopment.We can track levels of employment in that regard as well.

I think because the standards aren’twritten yetin terms of exactly measuring whetherthey are successfulin and of themselves, I guess that’s going to be partof the ongoing discussion of the advisory commi ttee. D. Davies: Just a follow-up, then, for more clarity. So it sounds like there hasn’t been a matrix per se created. Thatwillbe created by the commi ttee. I think that’s whatI heard, if the minister can clarify. Hon. N. Simons: The government will be setting for- ward ourgoals.

We’llbe puttingourforward-lookinggoals as partof the action plan thatwe’re going to be releasing, based on discussion with the advisory commi ttee. The publicwill obviously be able to measure our success in achieving those goals, and that’s one way that the public willsee the progress being made. I’m looking forward to beingableto dothatpart,because that’s such an important part.We’llbe working on a coupleof standards, probably, to start with. How the commi ttee and the government choose to prioritize will be part of that process as well. Clauses 3 and 4 approved. On clause 5. S.

Cadieux: I appreciate that this clause is here. But it states, of course, that “Sign languages are recognized as the primary languages for comm unication by deaf per- sons in British Columbia, including, without limitation, (a)American Sign Language, and (

b) Indigenous sign lan- guages.” Can the ministerexplain why Quebec Sign Lan- guage wasn’t recognized in the text? [4:10 p.m.] Hon. N. Simons: Thank you to the memberfor Surrey South for her question. The member might have heard this from me before, butonceagain, it’s notan exhaustive list.In fact,itsays “withoutlimitation.” These are the two primary sign languages thatare used in British Columbia, and we identified those and put those into legislation because of that. S. Cadieux: I guess I’m justalittleconfused as to why, when m aking a list….

There are two official languages in Canada — French and English — and we’re adding here arecognition thatforpeoplewho are deaf, sign lan- guage is the primary language. We’re adding that, but we’re excluding one of the officiallanguages, essentially, through that process. So I question why we are doing lists that aren’t exhaustive but not including the ones that are, in fact, m ost comm on. Certainly in Canada, with French as a second official language, it seems odd not to include Quebec sign language. A broaderquestion.

The deaf comm unity and the deaf- blind comm unity have advocated foralongtime to be rec- ognized as a culturally linguistic group to recognize that theirexperience of our worldis very different than oth- ers’, and there is a culture associated with the deaf com- munity. They’ve asked for thatto be included. They asked priorto the developmentof the bill. They asked again after seeing the bill and realizing that the deaf and deaf-blind comm unity weren’t noted in the bill, explicitly.

Can the minister explain why there appears to be a gap in approaching accessibility and inclusion for the deaf comm unity, with the exclusion of this recognition in the act? The Chair: I invite the minister to respond, and then we’ll take a five-minute recess following the response. Hon. N. Simons: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the unique cultural identity of the deaf comm unity, but this legislation isn’t one that contem- plates the identification or the inclusion of specific groups of people. No, I don’t think any other jurisdiction has included that kind of clause in this form of legislation.

There are other ways of ensuring that the unique cultural identity can be shown, butthis legislation is aboutremoving barri- ers. That’s why it’s not included in this legislation. The Chair: The commi ttee will take a five-minute recess. The commi ttee recessed from 4:15 p.m. to 4:22 p.m. 2416 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, June 2, 2021

[N. Letnick in the chair.] S. Cadieux: I guess I’m confused a bitby the minister’s answer. We are debating here legislation that is meant to increase and improve on access and inclusion and actually break dow

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20210602pm-Hansard-n82
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20210602pm Hansard n82
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	ea5f717501b7a59ca7c2efc619bcb28d3c035516

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