VOL. 3 NO. 59 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRAL'!SCRIPT FOR THE PERIOD: I l HOUSE OF ASSEHBLY 2:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. MONDAY, MAY 15, 1978 .- . I t': ~; 1.' ..

:-tay 15, 1978 '!'ape 3098 EC - l The Hous e me t at 2:00 P . M. Mr . Spe aker in t he Chai r. HR . SPEAKER: Order, p lease! PRESENTING PET!Tio•s ~!R. SPEAKER: Th e hon. the membe r for Terra Nova . ~!It . LOS!!: Mr. Sp ea ker, I beg leave t o. present a ~e ti ti on on behalf of 2,035 residents in my own district and surrounding districts. The pe t ition, Mr .

Speaker, is spon so re d by t he Pore Blandford to Win ter Bro ok Ru ra l Development Commit tee, a recently formed development committee r ep r esenting eleven communities in the Souther n half of the Ter ra ~ ov~ district and representing some 5,000 people . As indica ted earlier, the petition h as 2,035 s ig natu res on it and is a~companied by letters of support f rom the Port Blandford - ~! us g ra ve town Lions Club, the Loyal Oran g e Lodge and t he Ca~bridge Kinsma~ Club, t he Town Council of Musgravetown and the To~n Counc il o f Port Blandfo r d . The pra y ~r of che petition, Mr.

Speaker, readi ~hus : "'>'o t he hon. ijo u s e of Assembly, th e p etiti o n o f we, t he under sig ned, bein g residents of an d electors in the Province o f 3ewfoundl a nd and Labrador, hu~bly r eques t t hat t he gove r nment allocate : unds in this fiscal yea r to start a programme of recon struction, upgrading a nd paving of t he present roads from ~he in~e rs ection of · the Trans-Canada lligh1•ay - Port Blandfo rd to the 1:-~ter'section of the Cabot 3ig~way, Lethbrid g e, the present r oad from Let hb r idge through Br ooklyn and J amest own to Win ter Br ook an d t~e road from Mu sg raveto vn to Canning's Cove.

P So actua lly we are calking about three maj or road systems, ·' j\' I~ ,. !"· ~ ~ . t •·

:· ! ;~:y 15. 1978 Tap-e 3098 ::c - 2 :tR. LUS H: the road from Port Blanci=ord to .!usgravet .own, the road from ~fu.sgra vetown to Canning's Cove and the road from Le t hbridge t h rough Brooklyn, Po rtl and, Jamesto~ and ~ inter 3rook. Ac tuall y, the petition i s wo rde d in such a way that t he pe tit ione rs see this roa d, the Port Bland..ford to ~! usgraveto;.-n road and the oth.er roads as one road, if you will, a continuation of the one roa d.

But al l of these r oads are linked to the ~ usgravetown to Por t 31addfo r d road which p rov id e~ t h e ~ajo r link to the Trans-Canada Highway for the res iden ts of these c:o~munitie_s. !h i s road system also provides a major ink the the most econo mi cal li nK for Westward bc un d traffic for residents of t he di strict of Bonav ista Sout h a nd Trinity .Ior c h . and several hundreds of the si gna.tures on this petit:ion co me from these areas. Mr .

Speaker, the Port: Blandford to Winter Brook Ru ra l Development Committee have some interesting plans fo r the develo~ment of the area concerned, but in t h eir estima~ion the ~evelopmen t of the area i s contingent upon a g6od road system, a good transportat:ion s ystem, because many of t h e indust r ies Ln h e area are of the nature that demand a g ood road syste m, for example, lo gg ing and l um b erin ~ . a~ric ulture and fis~ing and then touri sm .

And t::U.s has certainly h~ig h tene d in t he la st few weeks with the anno~ncement of the golf course going in t h e Southern pare of c he pa r k loca te d in Port 3landford . And i£ we are to reap the full benefit s f~om this d eve lopm ent then ce rt ainly there has to ~ e a good road transportation system. And certainly contingent upon the deve opmeRt of the 3onavista So ut h d'strict - plans announced by t h e ~i nister of ourism to set up Trinity as an his tor ic vil_age, cert•inly it is i mp ortant that this road be d eve loped to -~ gi v e .tourists an easy ac::cess to t~at area of the ?rovince . j I !

I ! r ~~ r; i' i

May 15, 1978 Tape 3098 fC - 3 :·r!!. . LUSH: ~r. Speaker, chis is the t h ird time that I have presented a petition from the p~ople of chis area co have their roads ?aved, and the member who represented the district before me, the hon. the ~inister of Tourism, ! know that he presented petitions many times on behalf of the people concerned as well. And, :-!r.Spea ke r, the people's patience is beginning to uear thin. They have a ri gh t to a ~ oo d tra nsp or~ation system . Th e y are taxpayers and they hav e been aggravated and f rus t ~ate d by the amount of road paving in adjacent districts, ~it ness ing the taxpaye~s· dollars of this ~=evince being ...

Tape ~·io. 3u~9 1 spent all around tileo,anCi. yet not.1i:J.<:; being cione in their own area. clr. Speaker, tne petition icientifies ~wo ma.j or reasons for the reconstruction and upgraoing auci paving of the roads. One is to develop tne economic opportunity and,I think,all hon. members W"ill agree that it is absolutely essential that we follow ti1is requirement anci tnis be a prerequisite. 'l:ne area icientified in this petition has tremencious economic potential, tremencious economic potential but it is contingen~ certainly upon a good road transportation system.

Ana secondly, for social reasons students having to use the roaus daily to be co-ummted back anti .:on:;, to scnools, the use oy the general public of carr;ing on their business, travelling over these roaas aaily .so, :lr. Speaker, the t'-'0 major reasons advanced in this petition, the economic opportunity ana tnP. social reasons, the rights of t i1e people to expect good roads. lfr.

Speaker, the committee met ,.-ith the clinister oi Transportation sometime ago and discussed this problem, discussed th::.s petition and I must say we had a very congenial meeting with tile minister ana I would trust that when he stands to speak in support of this petition ~hat he will refer to some of the points raised at that meeting • rlr. Speaker, ::.n closing let me say that I support the petition wholeheartedly and hope that the minister will be able to see his way clear to be able to start, to make a beginning of the paving of this road ti1is year.

Nobody expects all of those roaus to be done in the 01 _ year, the people are reasona .ble out they would lii-:.e to see a start;an ci tne Rural ileveloj) ment Co=ittee woul d likt: to see a start so tuat they can get on with tne plans that tney i1ave in mind. ;1r, Speaker, I as k that it be placed upo·_, the taoie of ti1e house and referred co tne appropriate ciepartment. c·lR. SPE&CER: Han. member for baie Verte-wnite ~ay. :·lR. RIDEi.JiiT: i•lr.

Speaker, I rise to say a few ·•ords in sup!Jorc of the petition so ably presented by my colleague for Terra ~ova (Hr.Lusn). l believe tne petition is signed by marL than 2, i.J QO people, 2,v35 resiuen~s

'!'ape ~·~a.. 3U99 d,. rt.IJi..JU1:: of t~la.t area in respons~ to a a.rive unc:Lercaken by t~u~ Port Blanciforci-i·iiD.terton Development Cowuit cee. itt. Speaker, I believe tiJat ti1e prayer of tile petition is very reasonable and it ,~s laid out very well and very clearly, the situation facing those 2,JJO odd resicients of that part of our Province.

As taey say in ti~eir petition the 1·-:oconstruction and upgrading of t~:e three road systehls involved provide the ~ajar link to tne Trans Canada hig11way tor t1:J.at particular area of the Province ana serves, from what I can uncierstana from tne prayer of the petition)a very large portion of tae Province located L~ tnree or four electoral aistricts, I ~elieve, tne Uist:rict of Terra :~ova, isonavisr:a .3ou.tu a.nu -Lrinicy rlort:a.. ~o, :-lr. ;ipea;cer, it is a very important: petition yet tne prayer of tue pecition is so reasonable that I cannot see hnw the minister can refuse to ta"e some action on it this particular vear.

Hr. Spea;;:er, wnat tne cry of tn"' petitiou, the prayer of the petition actually ·coils <io>:n to is askL>E: tne governmPnt to i.nvesc uol.i.ars into the resource aeveloum.,ut of this particular area of tne Province wnich 1if you are to listen to t.le govermnenc, is actually their iutentior •.

Tnis is not investment into social policies or tnings of t11at nature, out it is actually investment into the resource aevelop:;,.-.:,,t of the Province because building roads. reconstructi~6 roaus ana pavin~ roaus is actually building up tile infrastuccure that -will lead to ti1e further economic development of that particular area. The economic opportunities related to tourism, relateci to the transportation of fisn ana fisa products anci all those hcinJ of tni!l.gs, :'ir. Speaker, 3.re very illportant Hhen we talk about develou::..;."1.g cne infrastucture of a particular area.

So tne prayer of toe petition, Sir, is very reasonable. They are not askL~g that it all be acne in one particular construction year, they are asking that a beginning be maae, tney are asking that some sort of concrete start b~ made so that tney can see that their needs are taken care of. I think the prayer is very reasonable, I take pleasure in supporting it anJ I hope ::.i1at tile minister in speaking to the petition will give those people some hope that some 1-:ork will be done in their area tnis year.

May 15' 1978 Tape 3100 PK - 1 MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Fortune-Hermitage. MR. J. WINSOR: Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the petition so ably presented by my colleague the member for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush). Once again we have to go over the same ro~te, the rough roads, and the effect they are having on the economic and social development of a large number of rural areas in Newfoundland. local roads is a priority item 1 more petitions on this subject.

The reconstruction and upgrading of and I am sure the minister will hear This is tbe third time of asking.I think it is about time that something was done about it. And the socio-economic development of this historic area has been too long in being developed and realized. You cannot develop the full potential of the total area without good communications. And as so <.rell pointed out by my friend from Bay de Verde (Mr. F. Rowe) the fisheries are very, very much dependent on that local road set up.

You cannot get the big tractor-trailers to go in there and haul the product out because they cannot keep their equipment on the road. And if we could have more of these places properly developed our economic picture would not be as bad as it really is. And we are certainly dependent on fisheries for a major part of our development. I am sure the minister realizes that and I am sure he will look at this petition in a favourable light. in supporting the petition. I have much pleasure MR. SPEAKER: The hen. the member for Stephenville. MR. MCNEIL: Mr.

Speaker, I rise to support the petition so ably presented by my colleague for Terra Nova, representing 2,035 citizens represented from the areas from Port Blandford to Winter Brook, the Rural Development Committee. Mr. Speaker, the prayer of the petition is very reasonable, they are asking for a start on reconstruction of three major road systems. And as has been pointed out by my hen. colleague for Terra Nova a good road system is very important if, we are gain~ to attract tourist development in this Province.

Most people travelling in this Province, if we do not have a good road system, if they are coming by road and travelling about the Province will only make it a one shot

May 15, 1978 Tape 3100 PK - 2 Mr. McNeil: deal, and I do not think that is the intention of this government in trying to promote tourist development. So, Mr. Speaker, I do not hesitate in supporting the petition from the citizens from my han. colleagues districtJTerra Nova. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for St. John's West. DR. KITCHEN: Mr. Speaker, I would like to lend my support to that of the others in supporting this petition. I might add that the total amount of road is, I think, about sixteen miles.

And recently we had occasion to be informed about this road when a number of people were unable to travel this road to perform a duty on behalf of our party in Lethbridge because the roads were just too bad. And this means, really, that a lot of the ordinary interaction between communities, neighbouring communities is made much more difficult because of this road which has been neglected for so long. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Bellevue. MR. C~~LAN: Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak in support of the petition. Once again, Mr. Speaker, we have a petition presented pertaining to roads.

It seems like every second day we have one or two, which points again, of course, to the fact that there are a large number of roads in this Province that still need to be upgraded, paved and what have you. Mr. Speaker, ~n supporting this petition I am wondering> perhaps, if tre allocation of money for these roads, such as the one we are talking about right now,could not be,perhaps,done in a more democratic fashion. We talk about priorizing, putting roads on a priority list and going before Cabinet and so on.

As we heard today on the radio in the news regarding the capital '"orks, the Department of Municipal Affairs and Housing, water and sewer projects, in particular, are priorized and they are going to Cabinet. No doubt, Mr. Speaker, if it has not already been done with roads in this Province it probably will be done very soon.

:!ay 15, 1978 Tape ~io. 31':11 ~·~.:. - 1 "!R. CALL\.1'1: ~!r. Speaker, it seems to me that the thing that needs to be looked at is the possibility, perhaps, rather than just having a shadow, a shadow for Highways, and Transportation and Communications on this side of the House, I wonder if we could not take it a step further and have that shadow sitting at some of the meetings, not the Cabinet meetings 7 obviously. but sit in on the committees that sit and priorize these and in :hat way, ~!r.

Speaker, the people who represent fifty-four per ce.::.t of the people "in this Provi.:1ce, on this side of the Souse, can knou that c:1ey are priorized, They just do not have to accept the word of a minister '"ho decides to go to the press and say, "He have priori zed the capital -.;arks projects in the Department of )-!unicipal Affairs and Housing." Or, "loie have priorized the roads in this Province." Tnerefore 7 with that shadow sitting on that committee, the shadow "H'ill k.•ow which roads have been priori zed and then, of course, f Cabinet would be more or less put in a position where they would I have to go on priorities and l.ere is ~rhere the democracy comes in.

I ~r. Speaker, we are talking about roads i here but there is something rotten I think in the state of Denmark and I think that what has been happening in this House over the last couple of wee!cs is symoblic of the ::'eelings throughout this Province, The people are fed up. :m. SPEAKER: Order, please! I must point out to the han. gentleman he is required to relate his remarks to roads construction, 1·1ith particular reference to the roads referred to in the petition. The han. member for Bellevue. i'cr. CALLAN: ~r.

Speaker, let me simply say before I sit down, that even though we saw some people on the other side there smiling at the suggestion of making sure that the priority list is adhered to, it seems to me tl,at it is a big step forward in the case of dei:locracy and, Mr. Speaker, I hope that this is lvhat is done in connection with this ~cad. TI1e need is there. The priority is there. I support the petition.

' 1ay 15, !.978 :::·! - 2 000 ~. SPEAKE~: The hon . !'ler.loer for !orcune - !iermicage . I scill '.1ave a petition to present, ~!r . Speaker . :!R. SPEAKER: Does the hon . gentleman have leave to revert to petitions? ~g reed. '!R. J . ".JINSOR: T:tank you , :·~:- . Speaker . I oeg leave :o pres~t a ?etition on c~~el : of 285 people from t!le co;mnunicy of Seal Cove, For!:;Jne Say. The p•ayer this petition , the ~eed for me~tcal services in Seal Cove anci surrounding area .

As of present there is not a medical acce:-.dant in iletwitagc . lio~1eve:- , when there is a doc t o<:: i ~ at ter.dance we get a bL~nthLy clinic service . ?or a co~unity of ap?rc:~ately 600 ?eople this is :l.Ot an adeqo.:ate se !'"'ice . :\ weekly visit is necessary to m.ai::.taio a: 6vod s t a~cia::- d of health . Thi s is our request to you , that you would see our need for this service and he lp us in our need. ?er!1aps it is the poor roaci condition '.Jhich is the r eason why the doctors 1./ill not co.mmit themselves to a weekly clinic day .

As ~he power s chat be yo~ know :r.ac we, as voters and t~~ayers , shoulc not be dep rived of, a3d are i:u!eed enti cled to a good ::1edic al service for ours ·elves, and especially our children and s enior citizens . Here once . again '-'e give voice t o o:.1r t!'louJI,ht:s, and strength t o cur demand by signing our n=es below ." And. this is signed oy 285 persons orhich is ;usc ahout every voter in ~he community of Seal Cove . b suppcrt:!.:1g t his petition, ~! r.

Spce.a;cer, r. haye to say that ~ am very , ve r y :horough ly : ar:i'illar or! t:l the area and ·.Tit!'! the con ditions •;hich t:.-e have to cor.tend 11:Lth. '!'ly own hometo,.'Tl oi Caulcois is served ':Jy che sa:ne ::tedical do ctor as Seal Cove, Hermi~age anci Sandyville a:-e . And "'e did have a doctor up : o about a month and-a-half ago and because of the tr avellL~g

::3y 15, 19 78 Tc= pe ~ ~ o. 31 0 1 ~r.: - 3 :m.. J. 1,·!I:,ISOR: ~'1at doctor ~·.-as rEc,ui:-ed to .iQ, 3on e o£ it 'jy boat under sometirr.es rat he.r c.dverse condi:ions. •.;eather ·•as a bi~ r ough, th e 'vin d was in from the l-lestward, t hey did not like it. This doctor -~

:.tay 15, 1978 rape 31 2 EC - l mL J. tH~"SI')R: happened to be a lady who is ~ot too parrial towards going by boat. So she oved down to ~ose Ambrose and we are now left withou~ a doctor in the area, especially Se•l Cove where they have their Linic. I t hink their clinic services were reduced ~ecause of the face that the doctor did not care coo much about crave ling over ~hei~ famous toad . And so it goes on. One thing is tied in with another. Bad communications by road ~akes it very difficult for the doctors to travel. N o~ then, th e citizens have to travel .

For any medical services now they ha ve to go to Harbour Breton, a taxi fare of $25 for some who co not have cars and they may have to wait there for ho~rs which means ahother $25 taxi fare back, and that is 550 plus drugs which are ve r y expensive. It all adds up to a very sorry picture. So I have very much pleasure in supporting this petition by the people of Seal Cove . HR . SPE.;KER: The han. the member for Terra :1ova . a:t. LUSH: Mr .

Speaker, it gives me great privilege to support t his petition so ably presented by my hen. colleag e on behalf o= 285 residents of Seal Cove in a community with a population of 600 people . Hr. Speaker , this petition ad dre sses itself to a mo sr important ma tter the need for improveci medical services, and I believe tha: the people have a right to expect 200d ~edical services.

In the past, .ewfoundlanders have undergone tremen dous deprivation and hardship and sac r i:ice due to the lack of medical services , I suppose caused co some excent by insufficient nu~bers o = doctors and in some cases because of the lack of a good tra~sportation system,

:!ay 15, 1978 !ape 3102 2C - 2 :!R. LtiSH: because of :he !~accessibility of many of these communities. 8ut, ~!r . Speaker, this is 1978 and I am of the ~irm opinion that no co~nunity in this ?rovince should be ~ithout good cedical services. ! reme~ber when I ~ent to that great pioneer town of Churchill Falls, one of the first things that all of the people going there would ask, Is there a good docto ~ there? And one of the first ~eople ~ovad in on the site ~as the doctor - indeed, moved in in advance o: any ocher residents. One of the first peopl e moved in was the docto r .

And I am su~e that they would not have go tten ?eople to go there ~ithout :trst havins had the assurances and the services o: a doc:or - good ~edical service, a hospital ~u ilt within a yea r . Mr.

Speaker, relate that to our own situation where for hundreds of years people toiled away in cheir communities, viable communities, fishing communities, logging coccunities with no cedical services available to the~ - t~ency-Eive, thirty miles awa: - it is a ~onder how our people car~:ed on for so long without demanding th~se services: good, viable commu~ities, taxpa yers of this Province, and I believe, Mr.S peake r, that these people are entitled, as I said befo re, to good ~edical services. !he request is not u~~easona~le, it is a right.

And l ~ould hope that the ~iniste~ ~hen standing to support t his petition - and ! hope the oinister does stand to support this pe tition- C:oes agree to a very reasona b le request :rom the people of Seal Cove de~andin~· "" improved medical service, a service that chey deserve a~d a service to which they are entitled. M~. Speaker, 1 fully support the petition and hope that the oinister can see his ~ay clear to do so~et hi n g about it. :m. SPEAKER: !he hon . the ~e~ber for oaie Verte - ::nice oay. - j i I I I

:lay 15, 1978 !ape 3102 ::c - 3 ~~ . iiDEOUT: ~ r. Speaker, once again I r ise to suppor: the prayer or this p etition presented by ~y colleague from Fortune- Hermitage (~r. J . Winsor) . Again, as be:ore, I believe the prayer of the pe tition is so reasonable that ! would have t hought by tnis time the minister would have been up and told us that his department will certainly take che cor ~e ctive measures necessary co do som et hing about ic . ~r. Speaker, when 600 people have only access bi-~onthly - twice a ~onth - to the services of a doctor, I think that certainly is a ridiculous situation. !he least 600 people can expect is to have a doctor or ·- I

.a~e .·o . .31-.. - · • IJJE.i.l' ': so101e oc er qualiii e · meaical pr actici o n.er 11;-:e t~te urse-aocc:.or tn·ac:. :::iley u.se in ce.rc.ain rural areas of t ' e "?rov ince , che l '1!asc cney can expect is tilat one of tnose qualifie d medi cal people c~ ma ke a t - ~a st one trip a week to tneir communi:::y to care f or th e needs of t hose 600 resicencs .

I tilink it is tot all y ri iculous ~ · - c we · ave tnis type of situation in Newi ounalauc co ay, and ~ •ou l · ho ye t.Hl.t c:.· e ctin.i cer ca~ let us kno ~ oefore this day is over t hat nis ~ e?arcment will take the ay? r o~ riat e corrective measu res . u .

Speaker , it:. :aay be ti:lat:. the same tvoe of a ccroac h . t .te same type of ap1Jroac use by t:~'"' Gre..•fe 1 .!ission i:l c:.. is ?ro v i~:ce coula very well serve c ucn betcar t ile me ical :leeds of c:te jlea!Jle of t.l e Sout Coas::: of :::ili s Prov ince anci :na>•oe i t i s in t his liJ;il t an · alan., t .tis roa<.! t:lat t.te ron seer- snoul irec::t the st: t~ndon oi c :-:.~ officials in i;is uep artment . :-rr.

Spe.1ker, we \.."now that bec a use o::': financial r-estr ai:t t t here are many t 'lings t•lat we canno t nave in this ? r ov iac e ou t cerc ainl y ,if we cannot ave access co me ~cal services th ~n we may as well close up sno p for wha t good it is golog to ao us. ~l r . Speake r, fo r e:<ar:~ple 1 l understanc c: at c; e mir: s : er' s departJnent is only funuing he buil · ing of one ~ew me ical clinic in all o f .·ewfou \ lan t ' is yea r.

We can talk a out nosp ita!. cutbac .·s and t hir:gs of t hat oatu r e,bu t ~yoe ·e shoc lci oe lookutt at a sysc~ of community cli:.ics t at can be adequately stafi<~d i>y properly trai nee nur ses or u rse practi t ione r s aou c.aequatc l y stafiec. once a ·,ee~ :~ r every couple of weeks ~ep e n cin g on c ne needs - certainly w~ch. o u people it s noul d be mo re t n an t •..sice a mont ! _ :.~here t :~ ose people can rec eive ade qua te mecical service. I t ust je v ~ ry f rustrati ng fo r t: nose peop le , : ~ . Speaker , oec.ause t n.is a funcawe:~.c al ba sic need .

If we cannot pr ovi e med~cal service ~o our peo~ l e tne.:l, as r sai · , 'Je y a s well lose up S !Op anu fo -r~ec c . Hr . ~ ?ea.ke 't" , i.e. .;ive tae great pleasu re to S!.!?port I t 1 ,.

.. ay 15,1~7.::> t.le ;:>rc.yer of cnis petition. ~ft.... SP E~\KE2": <:on. mellloer for Bellevue. C.'U.LA.'i: --- -- .~,ir. Speaker, I rise in surport of tile petition presenteU. on i.lenalf of t,le 60v people in Seal Cove a~i.d .• -:g for :nor" frequent ac.u oetter nealtn care facilities. '"r.

Speaker, I am ,;ure c;1at everyone of us ia this riouse of Asse.noly ;uust realize that tl1e people wi,o go arounu a.-.ci take the trouble to deliver or Jistribute or whatever tney mav do witi:J. these petitions, the people who go arouna and get tne signatures on those petitions, I am sure ti1e.t they do r..ot cio it just for t~H:! fun chat cnere is in it, Because in tr1e r..rt.c.uy peticions tLlat l. :"'ldve preser.tea in this "i!ous.: over t.:e last tnree years; froD.J. various areas of ruy district, the first question that I run up against or tbe question tillit ~rises at meetings or so on is;you know, it is a lot of wor i~ .

It is time coJ.,SUi:J.ing .:o i;O arounU wit~l cnese petitions awi unless t.~,1ey .:xpect to get 50l!!~til.ing beneficial froiD. ci1.e worh. tllU.t tney put into getting these petitions on til" go auci.7 of course,getting thelil deliverec.l i1ere, presented. in tnis c.ouse ti1en the people,as I say, are i..ot C.:oing it just for t~1e fun of. it, then is no fun in it, they are acing it because c:ney see a neeG. and they are frustrated to i<aow when and hope that, by drawin~ up a petition getting it presenteu iu t•le house will mean tr~at taeir efforts will come to fruitition. Hr.

Speaker, we near about Cabinet u1inisters resigning because hospitals cannot oebuilt in various areas of tnis Provi:~ce,ai.1a w~; near about a five year !1lan w·i1icn ;...·ill be anno,.neJ on September 2~til of tnis year i:or nospitals in this Province . .-!r. Speaker, it seems to me that nere are a bunch of people wl1o are not looking for any muhi-willio •l doJ..lar hospital, all ti1ey are looidng for are tt1e i.Jasic healt,l care aeeds, nae'"s tnat every iie~o;fonncilancier, I am sure, is entitled to. In tnat same petition, :·ir.

Spea~er, roaCls were mentioned. a&ain, only lase wee~ the member, tile same me~ber presenceci a petition on behclf of tne roaci. taat leaci.s to that cotur:.~unity a.nu her.e

• • u./ 1.::, ..1.. ;.• /v ~apE:. :.o • in this peticion they say ~ ~e cannot travel co oti.1er areas to see doctors because uf the Oa~ corH ... itiorL of ti.1e ::-cad" so r,;e nave it tie~ right in iler~ ,

!-lay 15, 1978 ?ape 3104 Pk - _ !-!.r • Callan: bad roads leadin~ to che community ~nri, o[ ccu rsa, bad medical facilities e::dstin~ in the communities. Mr. Speaker, the government cannot have it both ways . !hey talk about the fact ~hac we should leave every liccle community the way it is? chev say that resettlement was the biggest mistake in history and all of that) ~ell if this government, Mr. Speaker, is against resettlement, and they qaot to see che people cling on to cheir small communities - ::JR. SP~R: Order, please! - then they should - MR . "PEA!CER: Order, Dlease!

I do believe the hon . gentlemen has significantly eo l argeoed the area of the mat erial alle£at~on of the petition . ~!R . CALLAN: ~r . Speaker, ~hat I ~as leading up to, what I was going to say is that ii we are going to have these people living in Seal Cove then ·-et us provide them With the medical facilities which they deserve and which they are entitled to by righc. ~r . Speaker, ! support the petition. "MR . SPEAKL't: The hon . the member for St. John's Wesc. DR. KITCHEN: Mr. Speaker, I ~ould like to add ~y voice co those of the other people •..:ho have already spoken in support of this most wocthy cause.

It is inconceivable in this day and age that ?ecple t.:ould have to drtve for y miles over the worse kind of a dirt road in order to see e nu ~rse or a doc tor . ''1 . CARTER: .Fort:y miles ." DR. lU7CH~: !his is a dis2raceful - I t is not fo r cv miles . ~!Po . Lt:"SR: Stoo you r nonsense . DR. KITC~~~: However lon2 it lS from Seal Cove to arbour 3r eton forty miles it it? DR . KITCa:Dl: Pardon? Bow far is it? ;\N t!ON . ~IEHB ER : They have to come back . ~. W. CAI<TER: Thirteen • fot,"rteen.

~!ay 15, _978 Tape 3104 Pi< - 2 DR. KITCHEN: It is more than that. Whatever U. is. T>lent:y miles. A: l:!ON. ~1DfB ER : Twenty miles. !'JR. J. !i1NSOR: rt is twelve miles from that down to Hermitage. MR. LUSH : Ten miles that is all. HR. J . ~/IN SOR : The minister has not been there. NR. LUSH: A,,d in view of the condition of the roads it Ls probably equated to about sixty ~iles , you know. SOME RON . ~~ERS: Oh, oh! OR. KITCREN: r.~e point r am making, ~r.

Speaker, is thac these days when most of the - I can understand why the people on the opposi te side are not too interested beca use most of them come from communities where there are at least one , sometimes two or three hospitals as there ~rP in this citv here where most of the govern ment members co~e from .

The re is a diiference between living in a rural area whe't:e there is no hospital and no ooc tor, and living in a city where there are many doctors and many hosp itals. ~e are talking about a place now where people have to get in a car and bounce over the dirt ro~d not knoWing what is ~•ong w~th them• Pethaus they have a bad back, perhaps thai= back is dislocated, and going over the road with potholes such as it is from Seal Cove to Harbour Breton is not going to impTove anyone ' s back , And i t i!; probably much easier :or one oerson , L e ., a doctor in a 01ell - equipped ca:r to come to a place cnan for the people, all of the people to have to go to see a doctor.

I am very much interested, ~'!:. Speaker, in seeing what the m1nister is going to have to say on this ve ry rudimentary, very simple request from people who dese rv e ~he service. ~. SPEAKER: The hon. the member f or Stephenville. ~!R. ~lCNEIL : ~'!:. Speaker, 1 rise to support the pe tit i on presented by my colleague for Fortune-:termLage (Mr. J . \Unser). The petition is signed by 285 people from the communit ie s of Seal Cove and Fortune Say, and t~ei r re ~uest is a very simple requ~sc a~~ing fvr improved meciical services.

I understand from w~ e pe t i tion t hat one of the reasons why they a~e having difficulty in gett ing medical service is because of the inadequate road system . Again thi s shows the ~~portance

~ay 15, !978 Tape 3104 ?K - 3 ~. ~CN£1L oi a good ro4d system to receive some essential services in any communi~y. So, Mr. Speaker , ! support the petition gladly and t cio hope chat the :·!inistet of Health will stand and also support the petition. l-!R. SPEAKER: The ~on. the .nember for Baie Verde-~nite 3ay . :-m. RIDEOUT: :it'. Speaker, I rise to p-resent a petition on behalf of 112 residents of Burlington in my district . 11-r .

Speaker, the people on the other side might be caking to heart today the old saying "Blessed are those •Jh<'> nave nothing co say a:td cannot ~e ?ersuaded co say it." Because, s:r, some very important petitions have been presented co the House and we do not know yet where ~he- particularly the ministers- stand in relation to them. ~!r. Speaker, the prayer of this pctit:ion on behalf of those resicents of Burlington is one a:td the s~e prayer as has ~een contained in many petitions presented to cha House on numerous occasions du-ring this session .

And r would expect we will see many more such petitions if the House lases much longer. It says that :'we the undersigned pa~encs of Burlington strongly protest :he government c~cbacks in educational spending and teacher la"yof f s. we s!ncerely believe t~t the action t~~en by government in chose two matters will greatly affec" the auality of education in our area and :hroughout the Province. Thus ;;e strongly urge ~he government to reco~~ider the stand it has taken with regard to education. ·• ~r .

Speaker. i~ supporci~g the prayer of the petition let me say that those cutbacks as proposed by government cannot but aifect the quality of education in this Province .

'\!ay 15, 1978 T&pa :·To. 31J5 ;.,;.< - l ~!R. ~IDEOUT: especially in the rural areas of c:1~ Pravince in a district like I represent. I had the understanding from t~e minister when <ve were doing his estimates a s:tort while ago, that none of the school boards in my particular area \Jere to be affected by cutbacks this year. And I have been informed by one particular sc~ool boarc, :1r.

Speaker, that that certainly is not the case and that one particular board is losing three :eachers as of this moment. /low, '\!r, Speaker, as I said earlier, and as has been said bv ot~er members, this policy of educational cutback in this Province again boils down in its effect to urban versus the rural areas of the Province.

Those parts of the Province that can least afford to raise from their mm sources, that have the weakest tax base, are the ones that are going to suffer from educational cutbacks, from the increased portion that the school boards must come up with for school bus transportation and so on. ~!r.

Speaker, it seems to me that it is a policy of putting the cart oefore the horse, where you are 2 oin 2 ahead with the cutbacks and studying the effect after. we are not dealing with a piec~ of wood, •.re are dealing ,..,ith human beings whose lives could -.:ery ~1ell be impeded by this particular policy of putting it into effect and studying the effect of those cutbacks after it is done. That is the role of the task force and the task force, though very small it is, has a great job on its hands, Mr.

Speaker, and it is not going to be able to report to the govenment in any sreat detail until and they are not going to know the effects of this crazy policy of cutbacks before the harm is done. ~r. Speaker, it is almost li:-e building a house and after vou have finished checkinll: to see if you have built it on solid ground. That is exactly what this policy is. You do tl1e cutbacks now, after the policy is in place the!:! you study tlle situacio~ to see if vou have done any aarn a~d in this par~icular case r,.,re are tal:(in2 about i.1am t.o hunan beings and to :1uru.an lives. ¥ '·

:·:.a:- 15 ' 1975 .3. 'UD£01..~ : ~oulc sa::iousl~· reconsicar, <::specie--;· its ef fee t on rural . e:.>toundla.nd. As I ·have said on m.a_a ~ occasio:LS ir.. ~:1is E.ou.se, a te2c~ar or so _ost in a arge ce~tral high school in a cig ce.ntre of this Province ::my very 1.;ell have no ef:eci:. . ;-,.,r 'l ~eache lost in a soa.ll rural toll!llluni -y in this i:'rovince can thrm·: the •hole educatior;al 9rogra.=e of : ·.ac sc~oo.:., hel -er si:.e ter anc the results of it will he felt eight or ten yea rs do~~ : he road as far as r:at par :i cul~ r rop of students ~o.

It is a crazy Bcrlin~ton who signed thi3 Petition , I hope that t~e gover~ent .!r. Soeake r , I tac _e the pe tic ion .::;.r:c ask ::\a t it be re£er:-ed t·o the. O.epnr:!:'.ent to '.lh:ich it -::elates . HR . SPE).i<LR: The hon . ~~ber for !erra . ~ova. ~!=" . Speakar, I em compelled to stand .;.h;ays on a petition r elati~g ~o ecucacion ana teacn~r cotoacks in this ?rovi~ce and it is no exception to stand a."ld su9port this petit ion prese:Hed by my ~on . colleague on ::ehalf of :he ::-esi dents of Burling ton in reference to teacher cct b ac?~ .

In 5;:-ealdng ~ f these cutbacks I tried to impress upon hon . members t·.to major effects, 9-art:ieularly with respe.c t co rut a Ne;.·foundlar.ci, the pare of . e1•foundland ~o "'h ich the petitioners tome . ::~ul.ciple - clas s sit:.lations. - his is havL~ ·t1ore than one cle.ss b a particula r class-~om . .a is c~e teache r c akin~ care oi :wo, three a~d four classes. ~~d this i~ scmethin~ we have beer. ~~Jin~ t:o avoid ::or yea rs, getting co a one- clas3 situation and then with reduced numbers . 3ecause ;:i t h t he kind of educational demands toda x , there is no possible t•ay that any teac h er ca:1 -.;or k e.ffectivc~y ·.-ith t:!Ore. tca."l one class and not ef:eccive.ly .. ic ~ if t~ c numbers are noc rgasonable.

A~d when we have a c~ass ~ f :~i~t7

1 ape : ~ o. 3105 _,_., - 3 '·'R. LUSE: stude~ts, t~irty-five students, as so nany teachers have, y.,re compound that probl2:rr.. r..o~\1 Jy putti~g in several E;rades. No teacher, ~r. Speaker, can work e~fectively with more than one class. I have ::.;orked i::t t~at kind of 31-tuation. I have caught f~om grade 3iA ~o grade eleven and ~~ow

o.ay 15, 1978 Tape 3106 EC - 1 :·!R. LOS what kind o· a situation this is . There are no students going to sc~ool under such circumstances . They are suffering; they are not being exposed to quality educa tion nor equality of educational oppor uni t y . It is a situation ~e have been trying co rid ou rs elves of and we have been doing pre tt y well in the past . We have been doing pretty well just aJout right throughout fewfoundl and. But ~ow with this step we are going right back into a situation that we wo r k ed so hard to gee out of, having one teac~er to i nstruct t"-"O, three and mo re c..lasses.

ThLs is what this is goi~ o do, Hr. Speaker . This is wha t is going to happen in my ~on. colleague's comouni·y. And secondly; the teacher cut­ backs have the effect of reducing programmes and special services. This is goi~g to afEect ~u~ic, it is going co affect physical education. and again, ~n rural Newfoundland, many schools never had these services and we were ju st gecci~g to the point where people were thi~king t hat tne y were going to get these services - not frills, ~ r. SpeakeT, not frills . In t he larger ar eas of ~ewfoundland we have been doing these things Eor year~ cusic and physical education.

I am a ~ir believer in equal educatio~al opportunity and quality education !or a-1 the students of this Province, not only for those who Live in Corner Brook, ~oc only for c~ose who live in S t. ~ohn's and Gende r. I am in favour and I wou d ~ant for the students of 3ur1ingtor. co have the same kind of educational opportunity and the same quality education as students in the larger areas of ·l:is P.rovi::ce receive. And presentl; that is ~oc the sit uation . I~ the la~ger centres of t his ?~ovi~ce again, we have been rece iving special services i~ ~earling -

:·.ay 15, 1!? 75 Tape 3106 EC - 2 :t? • . LUSi! : reading specialists, gui~ ance couns ·ellors, and on down ~hrough the 1 is<: we can go . But io these rural areas of the Province they hav e been cre~endously discrimi~aced against with respect to quali : y education and equal educational opportuni~y, ai'ld oo • 11ich teacher cutb ac ks giving rise to mulcip~e-class s1tuatiops a teacher teaching two and more classes and a severe cutback in progra~oes and services, :tr.

Spe'!ke:, _would hope that the minister would see t hat t h is crane is reversed, chat i ns te a d o f re du cing teachers chat we will cry and reach a respecta ble teacher ratio for the teachers of th!s ?rovince, and ~ore i~portancly for the st~dents of c his ?rovince so t~at all areas can look forward to quality education and equal it y of educational opportunity. . . r. Spea..:e r I supp -ort this petition , I have no hesit ancy at all · !.n suppor t i ng it, and I ~.•ould hope tbe mi_nister would rise and speak to ch:.s pet t ion . ~!1:.

Speaker, it is ten:ible ~o see so many min isters not rising today to speak to petitions, the greet democratic right o: people to petition their go vern men t, and cioisters jus t si~tin~ d o ~ n and sayi~B nothing with these scores of pe titions - it is a sad situatio:t . I wou ld hop e t hat the mi:tister of Education would change chis trend and gee up and i nt ensely speak to this pe tition. .'d~ HO;.i . )'<E~lBE. Eear, hear ~ MR • S !' EA KS R : The hon. the member Eor St . John's 1·1e s t. DR. . !<ITCH!':.": Xr.

SpeakaT we have hera again s t ill another pe t ition against the cutbacks that h ave been an nou~ ce d in the teache~ su ~ply ratio in cr.i~ ?rovinc~, ,. i F r. ~:.

Hay 15, 1978 Tape 3105 EC - 3 DR. KITC HE.: the province with the worst ratio of pupils to reachers i ~ Canada. This petit:on cannot be ignored, neither can the petitions that have already been p~esented under this to pic be ignorec, beca use t hey represent the fears of the people o• the Province that their children, their boys and gi rls their sons and caughters, are going to be adversely affected.

This is someth1n~ that we cannot icncre. ~here has been some a r gu~ ent made here previously t ~at t his re p resents the aetivitie~ of a pressure grocp namely teachers, but my ezperienee is chat you cannot fo rce people to sin petit•ons . People si n these petitions because they believe in chec, in most cases . I understa nd a_so, t h:s particular sc hool board wi ll lose three teachers this coming year as a result of this iniquitous policy that has bee n sn~ounced .

:~~y -5, H73 OR . KITC!S.I: I an vecy ::~uch t.'orried about what may happen in Burlington next yea:r. ::le do not q:lite kno1~ ·.·h:tt i s goi::.g co ~ap?en bec~se t~e progra~e, as i afiects BurLington, n~s :lOt been sca·ed. 1 am su~e the board has not made up its mind yet.

But I am su r e that the people ~ho signed that petition lvould lit-..e :o be reassu r ed, r assu r ed ·.,y t~e :!inls ter of Education that he is ooking at -~at the board will decicie and he ~~ill not let t.hem do anyt:-ting that '-1ill a<ivarsely affect t:-te ?eople o:~f i>ur l.in;ton . :~aybe i t is ?Ossible to s.1.ve a ~eac~er C2...'ln0t se,,e teachers here and t~e :: e, that ·.;ould be possibly S2)'ing somet~ing that we do not knoiJ about~ but if w-e could Jr.Ooitor wha"t is going t o happetl nere , and if :be reredial ::--eeding r:.e-ac:!':er be necessary, then I YOULd li·e t o see the minister gua ran tee t he people of 3urlingcon, 'lo , Sir, we are not goinS~; to S~;O that ooard you .l::e no t gainS! :o do tha t wa cut out somethin~ else but you must no t cut o~t = ~~s one.

I ".Joul<i li!~e very !:luc: for ::he :-tin is te::- of Eciuca ion , ~.-!lo has a responsi b-ility he re to rise ir; ::1 p_ace no~: , the first pe:oson '"no -~il !1ave ::isen in :tis place code:; to support any pc<:it ion . •. e :necilers opposite are like zombies in :he sen.se :ha.t c:tey are jus t the:-e listeni:tg, ~·-i-s~.in.g the U.cke~s thet the whole thi~g •· as eve::- so that t hey could gee on ';it:, socethin~ else , Th e idea t~ at FI!Op e sho'l · d petition t;,e govet""'..u:e:'\C seems not to be able to oe es:abli s hed or listened o by c;,e pecple on t ~e ocher ~i de.

T~ ere aTe people honest" y, seriou~:y .~niste r of Education ~ss the d ty and t he oolig~ticn to rise in his place and sup?or: chis petition and not hide a~ay i:t a co~e~.

~!?.. . ~!CXEI - : ~r . Speaker, ! rise t:o suppor":: che petition oi 1!2 residents f r om Burlingt:on. I t:hink t~e request of the.ir ?etition is ·1ery ~easonable i:1 that they are aga:Lns:: t:ne gov·~rn:nent ?Olicy Of CU t backs , in the 1 sht tha~ the governoeGt is r.ot sure if the quality of eclucation is going to be affected. ~!r . Spea~er, I ~oncier whc.t ·ni_ this ?resent ?Olicy that t he quality of education is a:1d will be af fected for many ye ars to come? lfhat 11ill they say?

I imag:!.ne that ~hey will fo-lo· throuszh with their oresenc oolicv and chev !Jill say tha~ it has been the fault of t'e previous a~i~is:ration . So, ~ = · Speaker, I gladly stand and ~. about~turn i:l t~s very ~portent matter conce~ing t 3 e quality of education in this Province. . !R. SPEAKER: The hon . :ne!!".ber for Be!_evue . ~!R . CALL.•~'l : ~ . Speaker, I s tanci. and scppo•~ c.he :;et.ition on behalf o! 112 parencs in c=:e comnunity of Burlingt-o n -:-f!gart:in g c: e e.ducecional cutbacks promised by this a~~inist , ation . ~r .

S;fesker, last ":Jeo::k I :~ as do "'t'. io mee.ti~g organized by the ?arent ?eache r Association which takes in a half a doz.en comm~t.i.es ::!oun that ,,. y, the high BChool bei~g in Little Eee -~ 's Ease, but: ~he pupils enc p~re~ts from a ha_: a dozen co!:l!!lu:..'1i::ies <iol.r.:! in South~>•est A=. Ar:d ! mignc sa~·, :~ . Spea\~r, tila .t down i::. Litt l e :!eart' s Ease last. 'ileek :he peop ~e who a~tendec t!lat 0\eei:iq: did :me de:;,onstrate that t heir _ict_e hea rts ~ere at ease . As a ~atte: of face , ! ;ooulci say thee chei r hearts w·ere rather heavy 1 because, .lr . Spe.~ k ar

., . .ay _-J' 1978 ~~R . CALLA .. 'l ; Tal'e .:o . 3107 again I must say what somebody e..J.se ~as alraady said, i : is not jus~ teachers who axe agai~st t hese educational cutback s, i !s ?arents, ! t is students as well . Some of t..'le =!Uestions chat ·~e-:-e directed to me at tha: Qee ~ ing last •Jeek, like the or:.e in S-c . John's t he week before that, !1r. Speaker, ••ere how does the ~inister feel chay wonderee, and how can :he :~nister cf ~cucac!on, he does nee Justify hem at all. F.e has not jus t !.fied the in this Rouse .

He says · here vi be no radu ct :!.on in c:.e ~uality of edu c ~ t ion , At t he same c~e,rne~bers ::om ~s c~~ pa rt y s c;:-'"1::! U? a:'!d ~ive examples of Arh.are tf:e:e ·.;ill be t\'O clas ses in t':le one CJ.assroom •.~he re this year thera •-<ill be one. If that ..,ill no:: result i-:: i nterfe•ring '"'ith and adding to the deminishi::g cf quality in our educational syste o then I cio not see why it does ~t . Why cid ~e fig~t so ~ere t o get to the ?Oint where we have one class ?er classroom

··"-} l.J,l;;/j .,, , ... ..;.!,.·.)\,) ~;.;.<.. CALL.;.:~: rar:~1er t llan t~Lree or iour or five or six or sev~n or eig!1t: :rr.

Speaker, we nave llearci all kinC.:.s oi argt.I..Gle:nLs ir. t;1is house against educational cutbacks, all kinus of arguments, We ;,ave a task force - a couple of years ago t.l~S aciministration ciici souetaing wnich I agreeci with wllOle:leartedly a.1ci I went out: into "'Y Jistrict, att:ended public meetings ami I explained t:o ti1e people wi1at tile gover.J..«ent ·were trying to do and I tried to poiut out to them that the goverrnnent was doing the right and proper thing w~1en t:1ey put out a white pap-or on s-,,ow mobilir.g aud all-terrain vei1icles. nut, .ir.

Speaker, in . t b.is case tne goverruaeut has not gone to tc1e people a.~.'lJ said ur,.je want you to 6lve us sowe imput. ·.;hat ..:o you t:li:1.~ of tili.s i~ea that w·e :laveC" 1hey Itld~e ~ne Liecision firsc, then t .. 1::y set up their task force second. i'JI. Speah.er, C:1e lllE:l:,ber for Grand Falls (Hr.

LuncrigJ.n) .:i.isc vJee~ in suooortiLo c:i. very, ve.ry 3i:u.i~ar peti::ion ::o this oue tolcl us tnat in tnis Province of the people ,,,;,.o start sci1oul in "-iauerbarcle•• t;lirty-four per cent complete grade eleven as compared to double t•t<>-t nllL:loer, sixty-eight per ce~t 1 in sorile otner Provinces lik-e Gntar io and ~uei:Jec. :·tr.

Speak<:.r, I would say ti1e figure of thirty-four per cent L; even w-orse still, bec<1use in t1Jis Provi:1ce a person success fully colJ.pletes iJ.igi.1 sci1ool at grade :\:1 Lut in the. ot:1er )rovi:tces \We d.re tal~ing sl::.:.cy-eigii.t ~er cent of t~l~ ~cud.t::nt ?OPU14tioi.l cot.:i.plGtitJ.c'; nigl.1 sc~1ool w~1ich corJ.sists of grades XII .s.u.~ ~~lll, so therefort: we. are wuc11 furth~r ~ei1in<.i than che:s~ .Eic;ures i~ ~ ciicate:. I Uo not k.: ...... v "-·~li::.t Approximately ot~.t= .:ri.ir..: of our ? rovi.-~.cial '6u~6tSt is 60.i.n~ tu~.;arG5 euucatinn but, .. \lr.

Speaker, we are cal::d.l.1.b uLout .sci:~.uols fer ::·.1~ u.~u.C, trao.e sc~lools rJ.nJ so cu. w:.ere t:~1is U1or.:.12.y 6!Je::; ~ so it is a little Wi.~ -

..J..i..UC. :1 .. n.-~ J ~ .. .U.i...:-.J..: ----- Iu :r.y opinl.0rL, :-:r.

S~eaker, We c.=.u:-~ot a£for...i. .: .. oc to uo not L.uilci on t.1~ y-outh oi i: .. 1is ?:.-oviac6~ 'i'~1t;y arc tne i~dcicrs, ~he uen anci woiii.cn of toworrow. ;uJ.cl as ;rre.vious 3peakers toti.a.y anu. ot:1er J.ays "rl.oS.Ve pointeci out a grade Xl E:G.ucation. is a L!.!in.i..mUL1 stanciarci, a miniaum ~ta..n~arci of eU.ucation. :'i1e ..lay is ;one v.:i1en people v..·ant to z;o to a irieaJ to ,;;et soru<:one to file an incorae ta:; return for t:1.eru or t:o 60 and fill out an une~ploywent insurance ~aper or to witness a Joc~~ent \Jiti1 an X because tiley cw!noc sign their ov..1.1 naille. l· ~r.

Speaker, I sup pore chis pecicion anc.i I ~:&op~ tiut c ... 1e .;overnment to.-ill ta:...:.e a seconci an<i. a third a1.:.ci a iourcn anri a [if th loo~ at t•<is before tney go ai1eaci witn the cra~y scnerue of cutting baci<. eciucatiou ili -this Provinca. ~-J.{. ~? i~~~~: ------ i:ion. Wt<!Uuer £or Fortu::.e l\1ank : ou, ~~r. Spea~er. oriefly acid my support to this petition so ably present~ci DY QY colleague for Daie V~rte (ctr.Rideo~t). It is just a clear inciicacion of i:low much dissatification is rampaat lli :·rewfouncllaud ·.Jver tilE: e.;ucation cutDac;-s.

I ;1ave ilUucire<is of letter:; in mv files down there no\v about tile Sa.lLe suilject which will be cominb up latar w-~;en I get a furti1er c:1anc: to speak on it. If the minister is going to speak to this ~ etit:ion pres<!LH:eci by my colleague for I:aie Verte (:·lr.;;.iueout) I ·,1ill sit clown. I Jo nave anot;ter petition, :rr. 3peaker, which I would li~e to present. c-~p~arently ti1e !ri.l~lister it!.clicates c::1at ·Lle <.lees .a.lot l•lar'.t to repl::. .~.1R. SPEA1J.:K: tion. member for Fortune-Hermitage . :-Ir.

Speaker, I rise to present cnis petition to ti\e ,,on. house of Assembly from :244 people of Hermicage-Sandyville anG. the prayer read.;; tnus: "Flease find atcacheci a pEtition from the people of L.e=itage and Sanayville in support of a new ele!!!entary scnool. vie feel ti1is is a long overdue project anci should be given top priority. Plec.se consicier some problems witi> ti1e old scilool wi1ici1 w-ill \·Jar::ant

fap2 •. u . l:o acid c.nat pupils irom pri:uary anci ele~enta::-y h'ill easily ?iC~\. up ui.~eases in ~~e class~ooms iue to poor ventilation. T-u.~ fire coc·.~.ci3sioner' s report is attacned

~ay 15, 1978 Tape 3109 PK - l Mr. J. l·linsor : and this can speak for itself. Where are we sending our children? The location, the main street in the communitv and with the opening of the fish plant we find traffic increasing daily which leaves the avenue for accidents more common. The building is not even protected by fencing. The heating system; the furnaces are so located that if either should explode the cost incurred by building two such schools as we are asking for would fall short of the cost caused by loss of lives. We invite any member to look at this situation and '"e feel we would have your sympathy.

The foundation of the building is now starting to crack and crumble in places, this is also very serious. We plead with you t 0 consider our need and urge you to act immediately. I.Je are aware of the financial problems experienced at this time, but we feel our problem and need is something you cannot put a price tag on. Our kids depend on us, ,and we are depending on the Cow~ittee,and with God's help we can only hope that our kids will have a new school for September 1979 at the latest." Now in supporting this petition I would like to read what the Fire Department has to say about it, the Fire Inspector, Mr.

Ryan, ex-Fire Commissioner. "On the above date"-and this is 1977-08-02, and addressed to the Superintendent of the School Board - 'on the above date in the interest of fire prevention a life safety and inspection was carried out at the subiect noted property. Structure; one story wood frame, present enrollment approximately 134 students. As a result of inspection I am to advise you that the building in question is below standard, does not meet code requirements, and under present conditions presents a hazard to life and property.

My suggestion is that the services of an architectural engineer be consulted for professional advice regardinq interior finish, corridor widths, exit facilities, substandard· wiring and heating units. evacuation alarm 5ystern, and population density We suggest that it is imperative that immediate steps be taken to bring the present building up to an accepted standard. _Signed by F. J. Ryan and Mr. Gus Janes Fire Chief at Hermitage. " !here is a clear indication~r a building chat _, is certainly not suitable, Xr. Speaker, for children t.o be in. I have

May 15, 1978 Tape 3109 PK - 2 Mr. J. I·Jinsor: seen the building. It is an old one, the elementary school. They ~ad a new hig~ school built a number of years ago, and they have held off until this time There were cercain.priorities, obviously, on school buildings, and they are about the last to be served in Hermitage. And for what I have just read, I think, it is about time that something was done about this school. And I would certainly like the minister to address himself to this, if he nas not to the others. And I have very much pleasure in presenting this petition and supporting it.

I ask that it be tabled and referred to the department to which it relates. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Baie Verte-White Bay. NR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, if there was nothing said in this House today that would make a member's blood run cold it would certainly be to listen to the prayer of that petition just presented so ablv by my colleague for Fortune-Hermitage(Mr. J. Winsor). How the glue bound ministers can sit in their seats, Mr. Speaker - 1m.. SPEAKER: Order, please! I must point out to the hon. gentleman that debate is not allowed under the proceeding of petitions. MR. RIDEOUT: Yes, I apologize, Mr.

Speaker, but this is enougn to upset a person. I will try to stay within the rules. Mr. Speaker, how anybody can stay in their seat having listened to the prayer of that petition is unbelievable.

When the Fire Commissioner, such a noted and respected person in the Province as the previous Fire Comrnissioner,Frank Ryan,can go do~~ and inspect that building, say that it is of low standard, and then include in his report, in black and white, with the printed word, that life is at stake, that 134 students attending that school that their lives are at stake every day they go in there; that the Department of Health, the Minist~r of Health's Department and their officials can go down there and say that it is not fit for human habitation? Mr, Speaker, what is the point of all of this?

What is the point of having the Fire Commissioner make an inspection and a report? What is the point of having the minister's officials go down end maKe an inspection and a report if nothing is going to come of it.

::ay 1.5. 1978 Iage 3L C ::c - 1 .!R . !t!:> EOGT: It is petition chat t~e school is a hazard co ~he lives of the children chat go to school and work the=e. lc .is also obvious. Hr. Speaker, f r om the prayer of the petition that the locatio n of t~e hea ti ng sys t e~, for examp _ e, is detrinental to the lives of the students if anything s hould h ap p e n t o it . - have sae~ s:hools i~ : h is ?!" v:ince, - have see.:1 ~h~tn in my ~·~~ d::!..:.:ri.c:::: : ~·= .

S e.a~:e:, old school buildings where when tbey ins t alled central heating they ~en t in and put furnaces one over e- ch exit - two exits to the school and the furnace up on 2 ! 6 planking, ~ooden p an~ing and the furnace u9 over ~he door. liow in God's name if anyt~ing should happen are those cnildre n supposed to evacu a te that building out through the ~alls of f l ame t h at would be barring the e~its from che building ? M:. Spe a ker, it is ridiculous. lr would ~ake the blood of any member run cold o know that this type of thing is happening in our Province t oday . And we are as~ing this ! ouse :·1: .

Speaker to vote sup?-Y to the Depa rc meo ~ of ~ducation to be passed on to t he appropriate D~Cs so that it can be spent as they see fit to build or to riconstruct schoo builcings in this Provi~ce . :\nd ! would say , .!r. Speaker, that t~e tice has come for the Ministe r of Educa t ion to take the bull by the horns 1 and in this case. I m~en t~e DECs , and try to sit dow~ and establish with them so~e sort of priority situation w~en it comes co the bui_ding of new schools in this PTovioce.

The t ype of si t uatio~ that my colleague has referre d to should not be allowed co ~o o n a'!!y longe~. '!'~e li;;es of those _J!. sturien t s a~e too ireoo:-tan :: for !:hat aod if t he minist~r ~as co use ~is 3i~iste ~ ia

:ray 1.5, 1978 Ta pe 3110 :!S. . !'.ID::OUT: influ ence ~ith the o::cs than so ~e it bu __ et us not a l ways slough the responsibili~y off an d shru• our shoulders an d say, We give them - he money but we cann ot do any mo re. Iha ~ is just a cla ssic exanple, Mr . Speaker, of ooc wan t ing to carry out our responsi~i ity. We giv e them the money , we vote the ~oney from this Sous a and l et us have some in pu t i~to how it is spent a nd ~here it is spent and wi t ~ what priority it is spent. )l r.

SpeaKe r, I support t~e p ra ye r of t h at petition and if nobody, as I ha ve said, has risen o n a p et i tion oday chen I would hop e t h at the glue ~il_ Ea 1 o f£ ~ he pan es o f cher.~ o·1e :: there and the;; will gee up . ~!R . J. C ART~!t: T~e Paapers ~il l fal o~f the m over t h ere . ~!R . S?.li:A!<ER : Th e hon . t he membe r Eo r Terra ~o v a . t·l!t . LUSH: ,! r. Speaker, _ again rise to su?po r t t his p etition. T~ese pe t itions bei n g present ed oy y co l l eagu es t oday ' r .

Speaker, i~dicare the needs of t he p eop le of t hi s Province, the needs of the peop le whom we re p r esent , and ! :.:oulc! e:<?ec t , t he neec;; of .he people that wem~ers on the gove rn ment side of t~e House represent as well - roads and petit on~ rela te d t o educatior. . .\ nd. Kr.

Spe•k er . ~e a l l recognize the right of ~u r people, as ! have said )reviously, to petition t heir go ver~ ~ent , a basic de~o crat ic ri gh t to petition c he governoen r for the And ce r::a inl:r, the mat ter s r~ised here to4ay ~it h res pect to education ere very serious and g r av e needs . ,1. ,l T~is pa rticular pe tition referring to a school buildins - the necesa~cy for an adequate school building t o p r ope:ly ~ouse stucents and to

~!a y i 5 , 19 7 S ::c - 3 !·!R. LUS~: comfort and health and safety . I do not know Nhether the minister 1 s bill on Occup ational Health and Safety ap plies t o schools or not, but 1! i t does not i t ce=~ainly see~s evident from ~~at the hon. ~e~ber says that there should be some such bill that would prevent students ~rom ~av~ng to be housed in schools that are injurious to health and -selfecy. Xr .

Speaker, I ao ~ot at all s~ggesting tha~ the government should have to ~uild super- structures. 1 think throughou t this Province t~at there are ~any casas where we have bu~lt schools :hat ?robably have been ra:her ax?ens!? e and probab:y :oo expens!ve for : he com~unities to main:ain, ~u: all hon. nembers here, I think, would like to know that our students are attencinr schools where their health and protection anc safety are insured, not as the case herein referred to ~y ny hon. colleague. ~r.

Speaker, I hav e had the experience of teaching in soae preccy ?OOr bui ldings, some preccy inadequate buildings, buildings where the wine came whistling through, where chere ~as no running ~ater and no collet facilities, and I do not know, ~r . S? eak ~r. ~het~ec there ~as ever oeen any s:udies done or any ;...;

"2y 15, l973 :·!R. LL:SH: researc~ i~to the relatio~s~i? bettwen the structure of a building or the adeq~;acy of a building and acadenic achievement. The hon. ~ember for St. John's \·:est (Dr. Kitchen) I kno1~ :,e has done all kinds of s tudi"s and correlations and this sort of thing.

I do not knov1 what the relationship is between school buildings and achievement~ I do o.ot k.."'lo"'. but it seems rather obvious if a building cannot offer coruort and convenience to chilcren.It '"'ould see1:1 t:1at they certainly caunot acO'lieve very ,.rell 2cademically if t:1e school is cold, if t:1ere is no ruuning 1;ater, there is no sanitary conditions in the school and there is no fire protection. I think all of these things \.lould somel1ow relate to the attitude of the students, and I would think mRke it very difficult for a teacher to instruct rather effectively in a situation like that.

It see~s to me it would not be a situation very conducive to education, to the teaching-learning process. And, ~r.

Speaker, if there is no research at all to support such a correlation betHeen the condition of a building and achievement, if tc1ere were no studies at all it would seem rather loeical and rather reasonable ~"'ld rather sane for us all to assume that every school should offer the kind of situation that is conducive to good teaching, teaching that is going to guarantee the health aud the safety of all students attending, because otherwise,! do not think it is a situation that is very conducive to learning. ~r.

Speaker, I sincerely support t~i~ petition and would ~oue that other members on the government side ~ould rise and support this petition as well. ~. SPEAKER: The hon. member for St. John's ~est. DR. KITCHEN: ~Ir, Speaker, I would like to speak in support of this petition. As I understand it, the elementary school in Hermitage is a fire trap. :.low my h·:m. colleague just mentioned about the possible relationship beween b:.tildings and ac:-:tievemenc a:1d I should say, and I have done a considerable amount of study in this field both in this Province and else> rhere, there is no relacionsi'lip

-------- ::!c.y :.s. 19 78 !.:;.pe ~o . 3111 2 DR . :<!Tc;.:;;'l: of t~e buildi~g . Thera is no relaciol".shio , that ic is so st:~all in comparison lrith the o:her t!-.ings, but it is not chat .

So ;;hy shoul d ! supper:: the ;;etition1 I suppon: it ~ot on the g rounds t hat the ;•oucgsc~rs ~o·ill learn better becau se the research that ;;e have, and it is very voluminous, i~dicates that t:l.e-re is no such rel ati onship in a general \Jay . but I support it on the gro~ds that no youngster should live i;:~ a fire tr2jl· And this is t=:e -problem t~ith some c: those olC sc~ools t:,at: n.a:: started o f: as one rooo ';)1.dldings :t-.irt:: or fort; years aso ·.

Somebody added a room, ar.c then another room and ::!len an office and then took away the office and probably put: on anoc!'ler 1:oom anci so it goes. Then so~eo~e t~ias t o ?Ct !n toi!e:s and t~en puts in ·Ji ring, ?Uts in a furn Bce.perhaps, ~~d befo re you know it wh~t s t arted off as a safe little school becoQes something e~tire ly different. No'~.: I do not know the particular situation L"l Her:~itage bu t I can i:;egine 'Jhat it :.s like. coop.ared to :n.any ocher sc~ools that ! have seen . 1 :nigh::. bring t ·O t:1e att~nticn of the hon . House somct't:i.\'\g i n suooor t of thi s oetition.

A scudv t.Tas done some ye-a:-s a~o, 1 thir:.t'- :.c was about seven o-= eig h t yeaTS ·~ho bad a £airly large r ese.:\rcb s ~z::!t fror:1 DREE , I t hink it "..Tas $100,000 end per ha?S it :night have ':le.en at the time when You~ Eonour ~as the Ministe r cf Educatio n or perhaps even before that . Thev inC!.cated, th~ Pishe r -~~ tlr'!:'en report , that ::~ere '-Y"ere e :lumber of :ice traps in this ·!'r<lvince r.~esquerad!ng as schooJ.s; wi th a these thin gs should be given some pcio rit y asst~~~ent at having t o Oe elLuinaccd, a~d to elirni~at~ ~he~ .

A ~d 1 was under c~e a::a;: ·.·ith . )iow it is very sad to hear t hac there !s at leas t one

DR. K ITCnE:~: could not agree ~ore wit~ the han. m e~ber for Bai~ Ver te r,.Jhite Bay (Hr. Rideout) >:vhen ~e sa:rs ':hat t~ere s ho uld be 2. priori:y list for schools that government should have. Never mi:c :~ •,Jhat the DEC he.s, \.."he.t the government should have that se.ys 3

:!ay 15, l97S ~c - 1 0!' .. KITCEC:~: schools have to )e replaced in order co get another CO?per, these have to )e cone first , And ...,ith al l due deference to ::.; hon. colleague from Terra ~ova (~r . Lush), I believe, getti~g ric of a fire trap school is probably even ~ore i~porcant than putting a gyat:tasium in East?Ort, if there is such a t:ting. And that is the sort of thi~g, I believe, that the 1finis::er of Ecucation should loo~ at.

First, the old !ire t:a?S have to be ~one away ~ith !o: the sa!ety of the youngsters, not because they are going to learn any better, but because you have to have thee safe. ~o one wants anything co happen. Ar.d over the years this school has ?rocably beco0e ever ~ore cangerous. I do not k~ow wha t ...,e have : o do, ~ r. Speake:, to gee people co rise on the other side to support this thing. It rea~inds me of the story of the fellow who was going down the roac and he saw another ~an there trying to ge t the ho rse to go. And he was urging him to go - 'get on', and so on, and the ho rse •as not moving.

So finally he cook up a big 3tick of wood and hit him over the head . - 'What did you hie him ovc~ the head for, buddy? You ere not going to gee hio to go thac..,ay.' '~o, but I got his atcentio~.' So, :!r . Speak er. ?erhaps ..,e should do that with :he Minister o! Education. ~!R . S?!':A:<ER: v~ .. :, . che petition . The hon . the ~e~ber :or Stephenville. Speaker, I ~!se co suppo~: r:,e ?e t it ion de:oo:tsc:a:es the need fo r a :tew ele~e3tary school in ~e r~lta ge . Mr.

Speaker, •hen you have a school facilicy or a school and school pro~racme fo r the quality of education , and you have in the facilitv itself ~ juilding that is turned

~:a}' l5 . !.978 rape 3112 : c - 2 down by t~e Depart ment of Eeal t h , and wo rse still, curce d down by the Fire Coo~issionar because it is a f~ :e hazar~ &nrl eben ~ave cbe ~!inister o.f Education o::- the go ve-rnm~nc state c:1a: they are concerned with the qu alit y oE educa t ion and the safecy of t he c hildren - it is a cont radiction, :-!r . Speaker .

I think ic i3 c~e ri~~= of all children that they receive an e~ucaLion ann the quali ty of education should be !HOtecte a and i t is a right co be assu red per sonal safety i:t school :acilities . but in a cese where yo u have a : acilicy c~.n;: has been turne d down by two differen: bodies, I thin k !t is a must that t he government should act immediately. So, :1r. Speake r , I support the petition sin cere l y and ! would call upon the ?remier to immediately support the petitio n and act immedia t ely t o take these children out of this fire tra p . A~i EON . ~1"E}!i3ER: Rear, hea::-!

N~, SPEAKER : The hon . the ~embe r for Bel lev ue . :!R. C.\LLAX : ~r . Speaker, I rise in su9oort oi " he prayer of the petition of the residents of ~erP!tage a~d their plea f or funds fo r an eleme~ta ::- y school in that co~munity . Mr. Speaker, i ~ doinG so, I eight say t hat I am glad that ~e~bers on the opposite side are not risi ng, especially if they rise and ~ake suggestions such as one or two of the~ made last ~eek on ways of getting facilities for our communities - selling ap?les and o r anges from door t o door a nd so on . Mr . Speake:, I think the gove rn men t have a ces?onsio:lity.

Obviously , the pe~ple in the

~--~ar 15. 1978 ::c - 3 ::R . CA!..LA~l: c~m~unities h ave. 3u t ~he gove r ~~en c hav e the ~es ponsibility to see to it t~a : ~oce r n day :aci liti es are p ~ ovided fo r our ~oder~ cay pe ople. Ou r peo9le in our commun:!.tie : have a ~es po ns ibili t y an~ I think, ~ r. Speak er, that : hey discharge tha : resoonsibilit y when they pay their ten cents - ei gh t ~ow is it? - thanks to the federal government - when they pay their eight cents sales t ax at che score and when the~ pay c~eir i~co~e tax.

I t hink the pe ople, ex?ecially the peo ple who live in places like Hermitage and vari ous pa r ts of ay dis trict where peopl~ a re priaa ry pr oducers - they fis h and :a r~ fer a living - ttey a r e turning out the new M ~. Speaker, we are t nlking here about a fi re trap~ a school t ha t is a fire trap , it is unsafe, pe r h aps unhealthy . ~ r. Speaker, is t his governnen t ~y its retrogressive action ~uggest ing : hat ~e

~!a:; 15, 1978 Tape 3113 (Afternoon) PK - 1 ~!r . Callan: should go back to cne junk of ~ood a cay t~es , o~ the bucket ~ day toilet! ~r. Speaker, I de not wane anybody co get tne impression that we are horsing around on this sice of the House. But the member for St . John ' s \lest (t:r . Ki:chen) referred to a horse story. There is another story about a horse, Mr . Speaker, you can lead a horse to water but you ce~~ot make him dr~nk. The people in this Province have _ed :his government, this administration co the •.ra.tar but they are re~usfn-;: to drink .

They are not discharging their =es pons1b1l1t-es as they should be doing, in this case in Hermitage, ~here the people are asking not for some l~'urious aospital cbat will be under-utilized. not for some million dollar stadium c~et will be closed nine months of the year, nor for some e:<traveganr indoor swimmillf pool ~hich ~~11 be use~ a couple of hours a day they ere asking for a bare i:lecessitv, the :t are asking for a safe, healthy ?lace •.;here they can sene chair children to get the education chat they badly need in the society in which we are ivtm~ today. a society that asks us to prepare our children for the future by giving them the basic education the ~asic ski_ls so that they can go ~n co trade schoo s , ?.nd u iversities, and then e~uip themselves ro go out into the work- a- day world and earn a decent livelihood. ~r.

Speaker , l supoort the petir!on with g reat Sm!E HON. ~lD!BERS: Oh , oh! ~!R . CALLAl : ~lr . Speaker I ·culd like to be heard in silence. :-fr . Speaker, I wholly support the prayer <>1 this petition and I hope that government again will see the light . Thank you. NOTICES OF HOTIONS ~ - SPEA.'<ER: The hon. the ~liniscer of Justice. Xr. Speaker, I give notice that r will ~n tomorrow .ask leave to introduce a bill "An ~.ct Respecting A :'a:: t:pon 'fhe Consumers Of Casol i :le And Other like liquids . '' \Jhacever the like liquids are T. rlo noc ~o~ . Othe r like !iquids . C~aca Dry - .... -

~fay 15, 1978 ~- SPEAKER: 1-!R. LUSH: Tape 3113 {A£ ternoon) ORAL QUESTIONS The bon. the member for Terra Nova. Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Transportation and Communications.

And, Sir, with reference to the PK - 2 serious matter that I raised in the House of Assembly on Friday respecting the Director of Air Services - I think, the minister will recall that he did confirm t.hat the Director of Air Services had gone to Texas to fly back a helicopter or assist in flying back the helicopter for Sealand Helicopters Limited- the question, Sir, I would like to direct to the ~inister is, would the minister confirm or indicate what say or what authority or what input the Director of Air Services has in hiring of helicopters for government services; That is, setting quotas for flying hours, time spent aloft by helicopters for government services? l'!R.

S?::AKER: MR. DOODY: The hon. the memoer for Transportation and Communicatiom:. Mr. Speaker, the allocation of.flying hours in the Air Services Division is done primarily through a major tender with which members are aware. There are other ~ours which will be allocated during the year over and above that. vfuere t~ese can be placed in blocks sufficiently large to tender they also will be tendered.

There are from time to time emergency flights, and special occasions, and special circumstances L• which the person in charge at any given time of the Air Services Division will have the authority and sanction to order such a helicopter or such a chartered flight. To that extent I would assume that the Director of Air Services would be involved in that minL~al area.

I would also like to take this opportunity at this particular time co bring co the attention of the House another very serious and important matter which the hon. member yesterday or Friday brought to the attention of this House, a rather crude and salacious allegation to the effect that the Director of Air Services carried a tape recorder in his shirt pocket in which he recorded the conversations of ministers while they were flying in the King Air.

The Director of Air Se~rices is not in the Province to defend hi~self against that charge, which I notice the han. member for Terra '<ova ("r. !..ush) was smart enough not to repeat outsice of the House. 3ut the oeople

YLay 1.5, 1978 HR. DOODY: l·!R. v·~: Tape jil3 (A~ tern con ) in the depart;nent '..lith l<hom I have spoken . On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. 3

...... r-.-1 ~ - S?Lu~ : A poi.,t of order , ns cow<! up . :~ . L~SH : , r . Speaker , on t hai: ;>oint respe cting c:1~ cap.a recorci~rs , t h ~ minis t er is s~yi ng I ~ aue an allegati on . I ~de no allegation , - sil.;ply :ii rec~e · a .uesc.ion co the mi n ister as:- ::j; .: ne mi . is1:e :- to ::-.ade not e outsicle c:·.~ B.ouse c::t:~ cio i o tha t pc ~t of or er. :::il.. SP C. o;;:: : ::r.

Spca~ r . : .·. c~~ c.:: f ha .o i.l ~e cc.rroO<JratcC: r· .is af ten oo:' ~y -;;e ; o n . t he :ueob e: fo r :· e:r~ ::ovc.. .ir . :..usu) sayi ,g t ha ... t: • .L..:. arose ou of re:::i~art:.d ... a ~ ·.aci ! ·..:ould susges:: t ha t t ~e hon . ~! in!s :: er oi -rc;::s?Ort.llc.ioo aaC Co · ur.ic.oc lo s · s very :nuc., i:: oc..:.,:: i.:l refu t ing t ... i.> c:1a rge a;;ai::.st C. 4 .l.S •• 0 :;~ . -:..: : . r e s }te o f O?itiou but not a ~at ~ e~

o1ay 15, 1078 Tape 3114 AH - 2 ~'r. Soeaker, I rise on a ?Oint of privilege, privilege of the "ouse, ~r. Speaker . • '\. point of fl riv .i.lc:be. day anJ it ims um; come up and tne earliest o;>portw1ity is right llO'-' ~vi1en tnis matter has Oeen ansvrere~ by t,le han. t~u: :·.iini::;ter oi Transportation. ~ow, Mr.

Speaker, the hon. gentleman prefixed his remarks i.Jy saying there ·.-..-as a rut1our. - ~nci I :11ink ne waul;.: inciicace t:1at ~1e saic.i tner.a -,,·as a rumour _:le was ~1ot saying Lhat it 'i;·.iaS U.efinic.e or L1is an injurious reflection upon an in.c..iividual, It is .Jased auci expresseU. to be oascci entirely on rwuour, :ir. Speakt:r.

I .;;,,.oulcl con.tenci t~1at t~1is is a dangerou.:; anJ G.iabolical abuse of ~arli.J.rra::ntary imn..unity. :t is one. ti.1ing to c.ccuse a i.leLubt::.:r of t"ni~ house of Asse::ti.Jly oi i..-:i.propt:.r cor .. duct - at. least ne or s·.1~ cai-.. ue presenc to a:t,;\.'Cr- Lut it is another thiug altogether, :·ir. Speaker, to cast r.:ilec:ion£ upon t~1e trusc·worthiness a.~ul t:lE: conciuct of ?ersons outside t:·J.~ Eouse~ particularly if c;J.S.t person nappens co be a public servant. :·low, :-lr. Speaker, I refer you to para.grap\1 - it is rauch more I contend, :-rr.

Speaktr, tl.1an a dispute "....c:tw€.en :1un. me.lilbc.rs, ti1is is a state~~lt~nt tflat was made Dy t:i1e L1on.

Ule.Iilber • .:Jection 150 of .Seauci~e;;ne sets forti1 tne rules with respect to ;.:hat a .ue;.ber may say anci gives the wide latitude w·hich we enjoy in this House and I quat~ from it v~rbati·..u; "If a i.1CITiber snould say noti1ing C.i.srespectfully co i:Lle Eouse or ti1e c~1air, or p~rsonally opprobrious to the other oembers or in violation of other rules of tile i-Louse, :1e -;nay .state 't.;ha.tever LlC tl.1inks fit in. debate, :now-ever offensive ic. 'llay 0,; to the feelings or injurious to t~1e character of iudiviciuals; and he is :t:Jr"Otected by ~ds ~rivil~ge from any action for libel, as well as from any otner questiotl or illol<estation.

" :::m c is t~e parlia:J.eu.tary ilUL1Uuity. L;ut, You.r ~iono u.r, 1 ref 2r you to

.. _i\,. Scc~io7l oi De ;.L.J..- . . " .;..:;. - _ a :aodic.unL uf ~cspor .. siOili.cy. Ic says -.lnC: ::: s_;_ro~c i~ Su"u32ctio:1 (: .. ) r12:.El2c.:ior.~.s·' vr: ::~12 £a.ct :.12.c. ·· ·- ·.;as ab i~ju.ric'...l.s ref~ecti on ::.ucll

::ay :.5, 1978 :'ape 311> r:c - 1 :·!R. !!ARS!!.~LL: depends U?Ott the tone and the manner and intention of the ~e:son speaking; SOQeti~es upon the person to ~hon che ~orcs ere addressed, as to ~hether he is a ?ublic of:icer or e ?rivace oe~ber not in o:rice or ~hether the wor~s a:e ceacc :o be applied co his public conciuct or to his ?rivace charac ter, and sometimes upon the de&ree of provoca tion which the member speaking had t"eceived fro~ the person ~e alludes :o. And all of t~ese considerations must be ac:encied to at t he eocene as they are infinitely various and cannot possibly 'be :or:eseen; · Xr.

Speaker, · in such a oan:1er t~at precise rules can be ado?ted with respec~ to the~. · $c come to consider ,.hat are in1urious reflections on oeoole.

And I would contend t~at surely in this particular case that t his constitutes an injurious reilec:ioo and therefore, Surely, :he hon. oember in this case has &one jeyonc the ?ale of responsijility to t his Bouse to use his iomuni:y in such a catter that it does not assail individuals inside and particularly outside the ~ouse. !1ear, hear! ~Ht . ~!A:tS!! .\LL: ::oat is -:ore ser~ous :::-:an to use your i~cunity co cast reflec:ions ~as~d on ru~our asainsc a private !.ndividcal? r.Jhere ....-ill they stop short. :: r.Speak~r? ;:1:1 it stop short of the use o~ this :touse to ·.:reck and tarnish the r~?utations of de:enceless individuals?

Should i t be toleratec? ! say, absolutely not, :!r . Speake r, and in the Chair o: this P.ouse reposes t he right and the duty :o hold this in, to dra~ chis to task once it has ~ee:1 dra~n co Your Honour's attention. ~avin~ assai:ed the re~utati ons of ~e3bers in ch:s 3ouse ~s i: now t he po :!c y of the Opposi :ion to ~roce~d against :~~ publ!c at ran ~o~?

:tay 15, DiS :ape 3113 EC - ~ ':'his, '~r . Sp;:.ake:-, is parliamentary tyrrany at its zenith, and I ask the hon. ~ecbe:- to witbd ::a ~ and :o apologize to c ~~s !ouse fo r : ~e aouse of :h~ aouse of ~he rules :~a: : his ~ouse is ope r a tin g under and at the same ti~e : o publicly apolo gize to the individual conce rned. Hear, hear ! A~ !iO~ . ~!E~!~!:?.: :!R . ~!A?.S~.\LL: :1:-. Spee:.-e r , : hese :ac:ics nust cease . 7bay have co cease, or o : h e: ~isa ~hera ~s t his going to s~o?? Are ~e now going oc a :-a! d ae r acdo~ against inc~vicuals ou ts ide o: this P.ouse? SO~E HON. ~E~~£RS : ~::t .

S?EA!:ER: Terra ~ova . :!R .. ~: :tear, hear ! Orde r, please ! The ho n. the me!:lber for is not a ?Oint of ? = !v!le;;e at all, :tr. S?eaker. Fi::st of all, t he hon . ce~ber did not r ise at :he earliest t!~e ~hich would have been ?Tid ay, and if not Fricay, ce rt ainly at th2 berinning of today's session, whi ch is an vbvious attempt to waste the Quastion ?eriod. ~nd t he hon. the ~e~ber !or St . John's East (~: r. ~!a rs hall) certainly slept on his ~e did no t raise this point of ?rivile;e at all at t he ear liest tice, and ~!r. S;:>eake:-. I suj::li t it is no t a poi nt o: ? r iv~lege.

A~ i!QN . ~:E~!!lER : ~!R. S!'CAKER : Hear, hea r~ 1 w!ll take ~he ma tt er uncler advise~ent and give a dec i sion on it later . .\ supple:nenta::y. :::t. LUSi!: ~r. Speake r , ! think t~e hon. : he ::inister d:.c inciicate tha: the :>irector of Ai r Services ndy have soce in?Ut into the q~oca of ~~rs establis~ec an~

!lay l5, l 97e :-ape 311.5 t:C - 3 ~! R. Lti S ~ : my supple~encary is, ~ven though the Direc t or of Air £ervices performed this pa r cic~lar job dur ing his o~n time, during his a~aual leave, would the ~inist~r agree t~at ~o ci~il servant in such an important position can wear two ha~s, one hat while in the eoploymeat of the government and a diffe=ent ha c while on leave? Clea:lJ, ~= · S~eekert this 9arcicular situation, ~ he o~~ re:er=cC to, ~us: be a glaring exam?le of conflict of interest . So can the minister eomoent on chat situation? ;:R.

SPEAKE~. : The hoc . the ~inister of Transportation and Co~munications. :tR. DOODY: Xr . Speaker, the hon. mc~ ~er is allucing co the ~ireccor of Air Services a~ain, ! '.10Uld think .

The Director of Air Services has ~eeo an employee of the ?rovince of Newfoundland for a great many years, certainly long before this admiaist ~ ation cook office , and I would hope that he will be an employee of the Govero~e~t of ~ewfouhdland Eor ma~y years co come. ~e ~ave had no indication or suspicion that the s;-entlama~. is aO)Ithing :,ut a na~ of starling character, one who can he t~ustec i"-plicitly and one ~ho has not de~onst~ate~ either to :hi~ administration or to

" --' :~"R. ClOCD"!': chen ert:ti:1l y ac·ion wou.:.d be taKl!:l to ~::e ;:ontrary. C~rtainly we !1zve aOsol!.!tely :10 !._n-ention of reprL"Ja~di~g, reooving, ti::in; o:: o~~en-:ise .:lisquali fyi::g t:1e gen tle r"'..4C from :he lm~ful e:.:e::cise of his ducies u:1less 1<e ~ a ve aosolucely <:ertaL'l grou:.ds ~-nGe; ·..;hich tc .:io it 4 !·:e :ave no re.aso~ look at it. Certa~~Y- the fact that he carries a ?age boy beeoer i::l. his ~op poc ~e t, as do aL t:\e pilots in the .!.ir ~!R . u.:s;;: A suppler.:entary, :~ r . Speaker. A supp e::~entar:;. ~::<. .

U!SF.: is .ot t ~e que s -ion cr..at: I bed as:;.ed, :~ ::. S?eaker. ! will ask :he :::L"liste~ ..1noc:her ~ ·.!estio:t . ~ seems ~at~e~ st r a~;e a~C peculi~ r that any person '-'Ot:..Ld pay ·nei:: own expe:\Ses to ::a::=:' ut a service Is t~e winis ter convinced chat ~r.e Direc:or oi Ai :: Services a1a The hon . ~~nister of ~ransport2tion and Co::arn.unications. :!R. DOODY: fron :e:-:as . I have :\O doubc ac all c?\ac i:is ..,-as done a: =:is o.~ ~-:pe~se . ! k ~::)w c:tat c:,g. Direc:o r of Ai :- Se. i es !s a :pil-ot , and has ~een a ?i !.oc ...

:!a. 15. ~;17'3 :~. DOOD': for so~e ti~e. I ~~ow that he has been t.yin& to log c$ many hours in hellcopte::- ·..:o::-k as he can on his own ti. e. ! ~'low tl::a: he is som.en-:here in excess of 100 hou::s ri~ht no~o: which he finds very satisfying. I thin\:. t~at this is the rr.otivatio!'l ~ich impelled hi~ ~o tAke on t~is paticular project. To the best of my k.:-:o,:ledge that is entirely c.~e s :ory . I: I Eind "hAt i:: is o ':e::",;ise the:: I stall t ·ke ;.;>:::::opria:e e .cion.

I th i!'l~: if :1on. :::em!le:-s !)posi:e have reason to '::lalieve ttat it !s o then:ise they should inform me or other me:n:ers on ::Ois side o: :~e House so that a!)!)ropriate action can be t4ken . But ! see absolutely no point Ln :u~ther pushin~ aro~~d t~~ naoe and :3e re pu cacic~ e~ploy for a g reet ~Any years . r see nothin~ tha: can be gain ed by public conversation and l do not think cnere is an:-~ point io oursui .n2: :..t : u:-che:- unless somec.hi~g :nc.te!'!a.l c:~:l be demonstrated. :"'3.. LUSH.: P.. supple::len:~ry, :· r. Speaker. A supp!.er:le:\tar; . 1·~ .

LUSR: The minister on Frida:r maC~ ~efe::ence to : !:R. SPEAK!:."A : The h.on . :u:1.istcr of rans;>o1:::a~ion cnC Coucunicatic-ns . _'? .. OOODY: eve::- ::avini! SU£!Zesceri c~a~ t~e D:!.::-ector of .\i:- 5<::-vices ·..:as ~rote & le.:r.:er : o the Dire=:::or of .\i Rr- rvir:u::. ,:::. , ~~~c ;..,o- ~""'"' "'"""'

Air Services there ~ght be so~e people !~ ~ ~e ?rovi~ce ~~o co~d const :-.:e ~:~is 3S a ;;oss!Jle ~c.:se o: con:.!.icc of in te~ es t so~e :!~e i~ t~e £uta~e and advised hie that i: ~~uld not ~e in his ~esc icterescs co do chis sort cf thi~g ag~ia . \;-:1at c;,e acc:.~al de : e a:1c : !.tne o: t ha t particular le:cer *aS I rea lly jo noc know, Your Honour . I do noc !lave i t on che top of ::I)' he ad. !t is not en! of :he :m. S?E.l.KER: :tR. tt:SE : A sup;>le:t!en:a:y, ::r. S:>ca;c.cr . A suppl~entary. The ~i~is:e: incic3tec ~~e~ that there ~-:a.; a let::~r se:1t :o :.:'l~ ~i :-cc ::or o: Air Se~:ices . ~!:t .

Ll'S ii : chat :et : c :-? :~ . S?~.-'\:<n : Co=unica t ions . ~~R . :xlODY: :·!:- . Spea ker , : !'lave al r eady incicaced chat a let cer ~ad been se~: :rom the ce~u t7 minister co :he 'irector o: Ai r Se:-;ices . I !nci!:::ated t :l~ s=e t!lins O:\ 7r!.:la~ . I thi:1k thac ~y ~ord in this matte r s ho uld ~e s uf fic ie ~c for :~c i1on. House. I have a~solutely r." !:\tent~on o: t~oli:1g incer ­ de? art::te ntal cor=espo:tde:-.ce ~e c-•ee:1 : he de?•.:c:· :::i:l!.Sc:ar a:1d o~e o: :.is di rect o r s, not at this ?Oi:lt. Ce:-t n!:-.:y not at e:~y ?Oin;: ~r:t . u:sH: A SU??le:.:e:1tar;, !-~l" . S?ea;~e:- . ~~ .

S?::.'-~?. : :. sup ple:1e~t :!t7 . '!~. :.us": I ~o:1Ce r i: t~e. ::i:::..ste= c:ou:d !.:1di::a:e whe t her che Ji :-ec ~ r of Ai-: Sen·tces ::as use of a gove:n:nent cer car:e ola:1c:ne use? ':om~ ~owlecge no civil serv.-.n:, no one o the:- : ~a~ ~he ?~:~~r o: t~e ? : ov!~ce ~as t otal 3~C :ut~ ~s~ of a E:Ove::-:-:.:::e:Lt cz:-. So could : ~e \ti~ist e= i:'\C!.~ac.e ·..r:te~he r the Di =.ac::ec of .\i :' Services ~oes :ta~·e access : o a sove :-=a~;: ca:-7

Co~~u~ico.:iou.s. ~ · 3.. DOODY: I T,,;o;;lci sincerely :-tope ila t, S i.r. I ~nor-.· is on call and on d~ty 2nd he ~es to be ready for ene=gency flights out co various ~ospital calls and so on. I ~c~ld si~cerely hope ~hat t~is is ~ot use~ for private operat~ons,

)lay 15, 1978 Tape 3117 PK - 1 ~. DOODY: joy rides or Sunday afternoon drives or what have you. '.-lhich is c;hat the indications are from across the House. It is something that I will look into and if it is the crtse tl-en certainlv it ·Jill be stopped. so. MR. LUSH: HR. SPEAKER : MR. LUSH: But I certainly do not have any indication that this is A supplementary, e-rr. Speaker. A supplementary.

The minister indicated on Friday, I think it was, that he tvould check into the accumulated annual leave of the Director of Air Services 1 and I wonder if he has done chis to ascertain jusc tvhat the situation is respecting the annual leave of the Director of Air Services? MR. SPEAKER: ~!R. DOODY: House to Hansard. The han. Minister of Transportation and Communications. "r.

Speaker, I respectfully refer Your Honour and the I made absolutely no commi~ment to look into the annual leave or the accumulated annual leave of the Director of Air Services, the Director of Transportation, the Director of Communications or any of the other directors, or officials, clerks, stenographers, security people, drivers or anybody else in the deparcmentJ I will leave that to the very capable and competent hands of the administrators of the department. And to the best of my knowledge the Director of Air Services is on annual leave.

Certainly if it was not accumulated, if it was illegal he would not be on it because the deoutv f'linister would see to it that it to~ as not so. I do not understand this line of questioning, I do not know what the han. member is getting at. Is he suggesting that the Director of Air Services is off with pay? Is out of the Province with pay? Has "xceeded his annual leave? Is there some illegality been suggested or is it just a general smear of the Director of ~_ir .~ervices? SO~ RON. ~EP.S: Oh, oh! ~rn.. SPL"-KER: The hon. the member for Bellevue. MR.. CALLA ... "l: of Justice. :lr.

Speaker, I have a question for the Hinister Could the ~inister of Justice indicate what provision there is in this Province for the providing of firefighting equipment co unincorporated areas~ no ~accer nhat the 9opulation may be in this Province~

:ape 3:17 ?!< - 2 ~!r. SP::..l.KER: The non . the ~!inister of J~.:scica . ~h: . Speaker, I am not a•..;are of any pt"Ovision for unincorporated aress . The ?Olicy ;_~e he•;e in chis ?rovi!!ce :ight no'"' a ?Olicy chat cace in ~o years ago, and a good pol icy, one that is ~orking exceptionally ~e ll,is to provide Eire:ighting equipcent to municipalities on a cosc sharing basis , I chink, it is 30-50 . ~ . CALLA.'<: :1R. RIC;(;R'I: Rig he.

The hope is , and in fac-., I am sure it does happen cha t the municipalities that are bounced b:· uni.ncor ?or aced areas and ~:ho have :!rer1.ght:!.ng a~..1ipmenc in their t:~unicipalicy ,.ill very quickly and very readily respo~r co anv call for assistance ~o ~ight fires and 1: they do not respond, , ~d 1 cnink cnis is ~orc~y oi note, ~r . ~peake =, c~ac ove: and above a person bai~ appointed as a fire chief :or any fire brigade in any municipality that iire chiei is also a special assistant to the Fire Commissioner and che fire Commissioner can direc : t~ac t ~ere be response . ~IR . CA.l.L-".'1!: ~ .

S?E.-\KER: A supplementary. A supplementary. ~. S~eaker, perhaps ~n the ~ay of

preamble ! might suggest this co the Y~nister of Justice.

You know, in view of the ~act that He have communities sue~ as Southport ,.hich is probably about forty mil~s from ClarenvLlle ~ lase week a bad :ire took ?lace at Southpor~ in my district . che nea r est firefighcing equipment is in the municioality of Clarenville, forty miles away, the Nhole town could be gone . and che:e a=e on that stretch o: road ::om the TCH tl Souchpor: nL~e c~mmunic~es wich a fairly large population _ whv is it not ?Ossible, just because there is no mu~icipality there. why is it not possible chat in soit:e of that there sl.ould be at lease one conmmnicy ·N-ith a recognized group incorporated , ii necessary;'lt does not ;;ake much to incorporate a coiii!IIunicy or group who wants co get toge::her fo= a good reason .

And here we have a group that NOUld !ike to obtain firefighting equipment. 'lhen ~-ill the ~inister be ir. a posi~~on co probabl ] look et :his. end chan~e the ~xisciog !a~? !he hon. the ~!iniscer o: ..ius;:;ice.

:-1ay 15, 1978 Tape 3ll7 IB-3 !!R. ~TCI.C·LA..)l: ~!r. Speaker, I de P.OC ·:-::.r.otv 'i.Vhen I r.Jill be in a position to change the existing law ~or a:n I a~vare of any reque.s:: tha 1: ~as come in from Southport to che Fi~e Commissioner.although there 9ay have been over the years for fire fighting equip~ent. One of the reasons why this respons ib ili ty has very ;:>roperly been ·-res ted in th.: munic: i?al i ty is that che

:!a y 15, 973 -~ -" - si m?le for mation o: a %tOc p ~~o no~ ca 1 r~e m selves a E"re brizad~ <ill no t satisf y the ve~y rea ~onable re q uireoents with res?e t co the provi s ion of highly sophisticated, ve r y ex pen s ive f i re- So~eone has to assume resp onsibi i: y for mai ntaining t h at e q ui?ment and operating i t.

They can do that as wel l. a forwula ~he r eby i: could b e wo r ked o~ : beyond re asonab l e doubt c h at someone has fiscal responsib i lit on a continuing basis t hen ~ayb e i t would be, you ~now, appropriate to look a : it , 3uc ri gh t no~· ~e peat polic. is - it is 2. zooC one a nd i t ~-.s a nev 0:1.2 a nC i.e is an inn o vative one and it is one :hat h as s ddenly seen in five years Jevfoundland whi c~ had l:r-le if any in the way of firefi ~h t i ng equipmen t outs id e ~ ~e larser p rov~nces - it now has by ~ar t he best ~ire protection services and : irefighting equip en: se ~v i ces o f any o f :~e : o ur At_antic P :: ovinces.

A)! H . .". :::::·! 3<:~: Hear , hear! l-'..R. CALLA.'i : ~!!. . :!!C!C ·Ll .. . : : And five ye• rs a& o ue had ver y mace t::emen dous strides i~ chat res pect . o re strioies? .! ~ . H !C.~ tA..' · T~e~e is a l ways :oo m for i1:1p rove:.~e:l.t . Sure : he re is . .. ~a t is :.;hat I am s~ gges c1ng . And if ~ e hon. gen t l e ~a J ha s some p ~op osa l h e ~ cul d ike co ~ake a2tting ~o ::: ~ ~ o ~ e

:!ay !5 . . 1978 '!ape 3Ua ::: 2 ~R . lFCK~! :\N: whe~e fiscal ~es 9o~si~ility can ~e attac~ed on a continuing bas!s r ~o~ld not h es!t ate to bring !t to the attention of the ~ire Commissioner :or his profes sion al recommendation anc his profession a l advice. ~!P .. S!'~AKE:~: The hon. the .::e.:1ber Eor Bale Vert e - Whi t e Bay followed by the hon. gentleman from S::e?::enville . :tR .

RI!>EOU!: the ~inister of Justice and it arises out oE the fact that it is cy understancing cha t a recent directive h as zone :he Sewfoundland Co ns ta~ula : y infor~in£ then that they were not to make any utterances co the press regarding their contract negot!ations ~ith the sovernment, that : hey i l were not to call : hat official at ho~e or call the minister f at home or do anyth ing of that nature wi:hout going chrou~h I I and having th~ clearance o : the Chie: o : ?olice . tell the Hous e vbether or no t he. as m~niscer, save inst r uctions :or this type of ~emoranc~o co go ou t fro~ his ~epucy :lni ster co the Ne~foundlan~ Constabulary? ~!R .

S?CAKER: ~tR . :!ICiO!A!<: ~r. Speaker, for very oovious reasons there ~as no need :cr ~e : o sive ~nstruc:ions :o anyone ic chat r espect, ~ecause on O ece~~er ~l. l97 0, regulations we r e enacced by the then gover~~e~t uader the p rovisio ns of

Section 28 of the Consta~ulary Ac:, 1S70, setting :orth inceralta the ~ights of ~e~3ers. Ar..d o:-:e oi the things I rea·d ~esulacion 8 - sub-para~raoh (;,): '' :\ mccn:,er .shall :lOt co:noun.ica:e on a:"!y matter relac'!..n;

:: a:~ 13, U73 !:pe 311S - ) :13.. H!CKl-! .\~1: television service; iii) a~y agency of th e press, ra~io or television ser'lices : iv) the hea<i of an}' depart:aent of gove::-n~ent o::- any other person or organiza t ion •ha c soeve r ~ithout the ?tier cons e nt in ~·rt"itir.g of the Chie: of ?olic.a . public document, a regulation passe~ and :aacie law. ! ca:1aoc adviae the ~ on . gentlezan o f :~e philoso?hY ~ehind th e o e k! ng of that la~ ~ecause I was no : a part of : h~ acimi _:list::-ation ·-;hen the laN ·~as made on Jece:~ber 21, 1970 .

And to sugges t that ~e hav e in o ur force, in :he ~ew!oundland Constabula r y any po lice officer or ~ r oup of police officers ~~o are no t fully eweri of thei= re gu lati ons t..~oul.d be a.:1 ins;tlt ~o t~e :re:.:f:H::l:C!.anC. C~n..; ca:,u.ia r:t . :!?. . HDC:Oi.i7 : ~l!l. . S ?EAK.L !":. : :!!t . !l.IDSOUT: A st.:ppleme n tary . :~ r .

Speake r , t he minis t e r i s weas e ling a round with th e Ac t s a gain , as usual, becapse the ~in i s ter knows full well he is quoc1~3 fram t~e Act s~d I am raising a q uescioc a bou t the ~usi~~•s o! the ?olice 3rot h.er~ood an~ that is what t 11e dire:cti\ ' e •,.;as all about . So ! ask the min i ster , in view of t he :act that he said, ~o, h e did ~ot give the inst r uctions :or his deputy ~inistet to send ou t a me~o~andum ? uttin g a ~lac ko~ t on any ~ elease by the ?olice Association re1arding Br o t herhood businesa, is th e :niniscer

-~. 1973 T~e ::o. 3 __ .::·! - l f~ ct ther such a s currilous ~~orandu~ has ~ow fo r c~d t~~ going co df!_iy the uemorancium iq;elE . ~!r . Speaker, you kno'-'71 :.as t':\e O?position emb~:ked po~ a planned at~a c k ~c vilify e\ery pc~li c. serva~c !n go ou - : roc ~~e Deput y :·tir.!ste !' of ju~tice or &ny· o:::he:- of£-icial to t~e .:e·..::ou."'\ci!and Cons:aoul.at:'; ot: to the ?o-....ice Bro t:i'.erbood . Go out ii."ld find ou:: fro m Steve . ~ · e C·!=. ::eary) I am sure he •.rill get: the same kd.:nd of ace:.~ r a t e recei•ted o:. Friday ;.•:!.t~ : espect: to the !:>ir ec : o: oi .l.it: Services .

Deputy ;!inis t:e: of J'.ls t: ice . A!tci mo-:-e chan c: at , the wat::er o E :-m.. U:Sf.: . point of o r der, .!r . S?ea.~t: . I". A po.::l.: o f order has cou,a ~ ~!!t . H!C:01.\:' : - be cause th;:: cons - abuta ry !'~ gulations - A ?O!::it o: orcer .as come up . ~ - L!;S!i : :!r . S?eak.: r , ::te mi~is~er l.s :::oc answ-ering :1e is o::aki::g some ref e ::a:1ces :o c::e :net :hat ::>y ho n . co ll eag~.:c and! are zoin 0 ou:side a::d checkin~ fer :!.~st:: uc ti ocs , ~~ r . S?c~ ka :, (~ :r . l".iceout) be.:.:1.;; :.:tcor.:. ecen~ . This is w1'.ac. it is, ~ ::- . S?.eaker , I I ! i ! ' j· i

2 :!R . LUSH; a:td I think :his is u~c~lle ci :or and I ti1ir.k the minister shoulc be reoinded of :he :-.:le o: staj"ing close to the question that he is sup?osed to be debating, the ?Oint of relevancy, :~ . Speaker . To t he point of order, ~!r . Soea.l<er . To the point of order. )(!{. iUC~~\.'\ : I am not sure the: thac cz~ even be interpreted as a di fference of opinion . !he hon . &entle~an !.s not co:r.petenc snc there is :10 dif:ercnce of O?in!on on th.:: pz:-:icular ?Oin t. But be chat as it ~ay, ~r .

Speaker, i ~ trying as ~est I can t o a~~er a qces :ion that was pu c by the ~e~~er :or SO)ffi HON . ~IE.'-!32RS: Baie Verce - IJ"nite Bay . :•lR. iiiCK;-<.AN: - Baie Ver:c, and may I say that 1 saw - ~ . SPEAKE? .. : Or der , please ~ 1 believe I have to rule on this =acter . ! do no: underst~~d that the hon . gentlcen to nrv le ft accused the :,oc . gentleman to l!l}' right o: !:Jco::tpetence.

I co not think chat that !.s ~~e fact.He suggeste d t hat he was receiving corn:nunicet:ions froc somebody else anc ·~hethe r he ·~as or whether 'he '.Jas not I Go not chink !s a poi:lt 0:1 wl:!ch I ca :~ .::ake a::y decisio n . I do be:ieve che hon. gentl~en co my left oey ~ve straye~ so~e~hac inco refe rence !n his ans-:e::' to a previo~.:s '1Uest ion as cis : i::cc Ero: c!':e ? :-ese:-.:: one.

::~! - 3 ORDERS OF TH~ DAY: Motion 8, Motion, the ~on. the ~inister of Social Services to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act, 1977," carried. (Bill No. 30) On motion, Bill No. 30 read a first time ordered read a second time on tomorrow. HR.. HI CIO!AN : !1otion 6. Motion, the hon. the Minister of Justice to introduce a bill, "An Act To Enable The Golden Eagle Canada Limited To Become A Federal Corporation," car-ried. (Bill No. 41) On motion, Bill No. 41 read a first time ordered read a second ti:ne on tomorrm•. ':R. HIC~~N: ~tion 9.

Motion, the hon, the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Department of Municipal Affairs and Housing Act," car"t"ied. (Bill No. 35) On motion, Bill No 35 read a first time ordered read a second time on tomorrm~. -- ·j. :· ~·

~y 15, _978 Tape :>o . 31- . .!!',. S!:C!OI..-Iu.'ll: Order 1. ~ - SP.E:\.KER: T~a hon . ~eobe~ =or 5ai~ Verte - : .ite Bay . :~'-• Ril>EOUT: the 4th. of .!arc:t, '"e are finally back to c: e AC.dress i ::. Repl;; ~ 0 t h.e Speech from :!-:e l'hrone . ~'R. n'iC!CV .. : (Inaudible) Praftsman. ~':R . 1U::>EOUT: }ir.

Speaker, there was oo ::-eason ·.-hy ". at t~e .'.dd:-ess in Reoly cannot ile called, I al:l :J.ot ~uiol:;li:J.g a~nut :?-.a::, neio:he r is there a;;y reason •.>~y t~ac egis-acic:: can:~o ~e cal ed if the minister so wis!tec tC) co that . -nere are five or six Qt us on c; is side in the Rouse of Assembly ~~r.o are prepared to debate _egislation if that is wha t the ~cvernment t•ants to co . \':e !ludg e:: S~eech has not been called .. ~~e c:ou d Cebat~ ~!'lat ~ '.:e so :.;!sh~d to o . Tnere are a number of chi::~gs we could do ~nd,in :act, Hr.

Speaker, t e courtesy a.\'\d co-operation that t he il!.iniscer is al~~ays talking about to wa ·e the House work , it was only a fe·,; !i!inutes ago, a half ;lour or so ago :;e as::.ed the Government Eouse Leade r :or the other side ~hat he was iatendin2 t o call today - ~8. . Right . :!& • :UDEOU'T: - a=ter the House was in session . As a matter o~ fac~just before t he Oral Question Period started we as~ed the Gover:~ment House Leader wha t he Nas intending to call today, and · e saic =:a did not know. :!r . Sp~aker, he did not k..'low. _Then :!r .

Speake r, i1e, out of c e blue says Address in leply ar.d : hen you ·ea r me~ers on the ow~er side say i ag, 'ques:ion , qu es tior.: DaLibe ra te attempts , ~r. Speaker, to clear off the Orde r Pa?er :.;'lile the r e are a fe·" members absent on this s i de o: the P.ouse. ~e l,th at will not be so while there are four or five of us ove r here ~~· o have the stren gt!t to r::.Se in our ;:>lace aac! speak to the Add ress in Reply . t!e1 are not on the Address i n ~eply ye t. I 1: I~ .. ! .. . j '·

. 'ay 1s, _9Je ~ape :·o. .3120 - 2 cfll.. ".IDEOl'T: Address in ~e.?-Y, ~!:!at :'.s waat we a::e on is it not? ~!!l. . iiiCK!!AN: The amenciment. ae amend:nent? Let us see· now, it. is so long ago, ~!r . S!Jeaker, what ·.Jas t?le amendoent? Oh yes a ~oa-conf:'.dence motion, that is right . Three or four or five or sb:: •,yeeks bac-k a non-confidence motion. I do not even ::emecber what it said. ~aybe. some~ody could get t:.ne non.- confidence motion an :.1e could have a _ook at it and co:~.::!.'-= the d.:!bate ·. ~lt .

Speaker. : in rising to have a few words co say in the Address in Reply I chin:· the motion t.lat T.Yas put dot.'n at t hat time was a non-confide:~ce r.:otion . The :li:~i.H.er of Jus t:ice i" a ways so happ}' to te 1 us over he::e •.;hat we do not know , ::hey tell us · e are always ~~a::~_ting non- confidence :uotions . !ir .

S>p.eaker, the motion I believe, or the amendoent t'i\at 1-1e are debating at this ?articular time ;!.s tat all the words after 'that' be deleted and be replaced by t.he iollo..,.ing : "This House cle?lores the fsilure of the government CQ p-::epare and t:o ?resent to t'he P.ouse measures adequate to deal •..nth the proble!llS confronti;1g Neo;.•found!acd and Labrador today and dema::.ds t.hat t he government fo ::th,..,ith ta...!.::e all ~easures possible within t~eir constitutional authority to allev"i<!.te those problems . " ,·ow, :-lr .

Speaker, certainly every meooe?: i::l the Bouse_ and. possibly on both sides of the House c9uld take fo rty- f.:ve minutes to debate that pat"~ic:ular a.!llenr:iment, 'tha t c: e Eo·use deplores the failu .re ::J.f govettrr!ent to prepare and to ? t"esent to L~e ?.ousa measures ade~uate to deal with the ~roolems conf-::onting Ne•,.;foU:J.d.land and Labrador today.' .. e hear on va=ious occasions in c~is tiouse, !'!r . Speaker, gover.J:r.ent members ge ttin g up and sayi:~g, "~o, the Opposi tion

!ap e : o . 3.!.2':> .~t - 3 .lR . RIDEOUT: is not b't"ingi. "'lg forth proposals regarcii:.g une~ploym-e:~t 1 the Opposit ion is not bri nging Eort h propo sal s rega rdin g dev e lopm ent of t he resources of this Province~ the Opposition is not brin ging forth any positive proposals win restard to the development of the fishery." We hear all kinds of allegations b e i::~ . g flung across t be House at the OJ;:posicio:t for n.ot bringing i n those types of proposals. :·!r .

Speal,.er, I say to the peopl e on their responsibilit to brinR fort h proposals o~ unemployment; it is their responsibility to bring posi t iv e legishtio n be fore the House ~it~ r egar6 to future deve l opment uf ou r resources, l ike. the fishery resou -rce and so on . ..e do not have tne staff and all t:1e o "fieials that go i::lt .o d:::awing up _egislativa proposals fo r t his F.ouse and neither ~r . Spea~e~, ar~ we the gove .rnment. We are

. .ay l.:i , ..J.i. - ..i. not cne govertllilent so it is no good of the goverilllleut attempting to slough off their responsibility on the Opposition when it comes to bringing proposals before the House with regards to the development of our resources. Now, Mr. Speaker, I am being harassed by the Government House Leader. He does not want to hear the truth, l1r. Speaker. So, MI. Speaker, everytime we get up to say something on this side of the House the first thing you hear is that you have no positive proposals about unemployment or anything else. t•lr.

Speaker, I think the important thing for us to remember is that unless we have confidence in the ability of the government to govern then it is little use of us to talk about unemployment. It is of little use for us to talk about any other thing when we are talking about this scandal-ridden administration that is governing this Province today. That is at the apex, that is the real root of the problem that we face in this Province, that the government have almost tecome unable to govern because,as I said the other night in the few remarks I had to say, they have been spending most of their time, Mr.

Speaker, down on the eighth floor trying to conjure up ways to prop up this scandal-ridden administration. MR. HICI<HAN: Hr. Speaker, a point of order. }!R. SPEAKER: A point of order. l·IR. HICKrlAN : The use of the words scandal ridden directed against any one or a group of persons (Inaudible) if we are going to discharge our responsibility to tile voters and electors of this Province then, Hr. Speaker, I would say that - Al.~ liON • HEl1BER: Could we tave a quorum call. }lR. HICI<l'iAN: A point of order cannot be interrupted with a quorum call. Learn the rules. Then I say, Hr.

Speaker, that the comments by the hon. gentleman from Baie Verte are totally and absolutely out of order and I would ask that he be directed to withdraw same. i•IR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, to that point of order. I do not know, but Your Honour will surely guide me if I am straying off of what -; I .. I

i-Iay 15, 1978 Tape No. 3121 J:·[ - 2 l1R, Rii:>EOUT: I ought not to be straying off in parliamentary terms, I do not know if the use of tile words scandal-ridden administration is unparliamentary, I will wait for guidance from Your Honour. HR. SPEAKER: Order please! It is certainly recognized by all hon. members, I believe, that if the word 'scandal' is applied to an individual member that this would be clearly unparliamentary and if it is applied in any precise term to a group of hon, members it would be unparliamentary.

If it is used in a more general sense I do not know if this is as clear cut, But I would say that it is probably undesirable certainly to proceed along those lines unless there is a specific charge and a specific body of evidence to be presented. The hon. member, HR. RIDEOUT: Your Honour did you direct me to withdraw the remark? MR. SPEAKER: I just gave a general remark in regard to if there is a specific charge and a specific body of evidence to be presented this line could be pursued but in the absence of that,I would think it would be undesirable to go along those lines, MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member. MR.

RIDEOUT : Thank you, Your Honour. So as I was trying to say, Mr. Speaker, there are a number of things that must be cleared up before we can depend on this administration to get on with the governing of this Province as they were elected to do. They have been, to say it mildly, bounching from one crisis to another and they have had to spend so much time huddled around the Cabinet table in efforts to prop up the image of this administration that they have lost, I would submit to Your Honour, the ability to govern. And, Mr. Speaker, that is what is at the root of the problem · facing this House of Assembly.

It is not that the Opposition is not bringing in positive proposals regarding unemployment or any other problem facing this Province, th~t is the responsibility of the government, Hr. Speaker, we have not seen of all the inconsequential legislation that is in the little black book, very littl~~tn any positive concrete way of what programmes and what ·- 1·: '·

~lay 15, 1978 Tape 3122 IB-1 MR. RIDE01IT: proposals this government has to solve the problems facing this Province in 1978. We have a preble~, Mr. Speaker, with regard to the forestry in this Province. We have out in Stephenville closed down now almost a year a great linerboard mill. And all you can get out of the government,Mr. Speaker, is that it was located in the wrong place which is pure, unadulterated nonsense. All you can get out of the government is cracks, pious cracks at the previous administration.

You cannot get anything out of the government with regard to any positive plan to do anything about reactivating that linerboard mill out in Stephenville. You cannot get anything out of them with regard to any positive plan to combat the unemployment in the Stephenville area that spins off not only in the Stephenville area, Mr. Speaker, but in the Goose Bay area served by my friend, the member for Naskaupi (Mr. Goudie),in my own district in the Roddickton area 7 for exa~ple 7 and the Burlington area of the Baie Verte Peninsula ·. One of the key factors, Mr.

Speaker, so the government told us when they closed down that mill a year ago was wood supply, the uneconomical supply of wood because it costs too much to transport it to the mill at Stephenville. Mr. Speaker, in effect,what is needed is for the government of this Province to seriously put their heads together with the other companies like Bowaters and Price and Reid Newfoundland Company and so on, other major companies that have major wood concessions in this Province and realign, take a bold new step forward and realign the total timber resource of the Province.

Did the government have the wisdom and the gumption to take that bold step, Mr. Speaker? No, they did not. And,of course,the consequences of their action is that Labrador Linerboard is still down and it may continue to be down unless somebody, whoever might be interested in operating it, unless somebody is guaranteed a wood supply that is economical to get to the mill in Stephenville. And as I suggested, Mr. Speaker, that can be done by realigning, by the government re-evaluating its policy I i I i ' .. "; ·:? r 1

May 15, 1978 Tape 3122 IB-2 MR.. RIDEOUT : of the distribution of tne wood supply in this Province. We talked about, for example, a number of years ago a Newfoundland and Labrador Forest Corporation. That could be one of the bold, new steps that would have to be taken in order to guarantee an economical wood supply to the mill at Stephenville. This government has not made any moves in that direction,Mr. Speaker. If they have then they have kept them well hidden and they have kept them to themselves. It seems to me that it is totally ridiculous, Mr.

Speaker, for the Bowaters operation at Corner Brook to be driving up as far as Glenwood and picking up wood and the Price operation in Grand Falls driving down Hest nast the Baie Verte intersection and on out around Sandy and Flat Waters and picking up wood and bringing it back East to Grand Falls, passing each other on the Trans-Canada Highway. It seems to me to be totally ridiculous. It seems to me that it flies _ , in the face of any economics that you can think about.

And then with all that happening we have this operation out in Stephenville forced to go on the rocks because the government did not have the initiative or the gumption necessary to take those other operations in the Province and sit them down at a table and say, 'Look for the survival of that operation out there, for the economic good of the Stephenville area,of the Goose-Happy Valley area, the Roddickton area and other areas of the Province we have got to have a realignment of the timber resources of this Province.

No more can we allow you to be scattered all over God's farm cutting where you like and so on.' Then on top of that what do we have, Mr. Speaker? We have the snruce budworm investation where there are today - MR. McNEIL: The spruce budworm accompanied by the political budworms. ,, . ~~ MR. RIDEOUT: - where there are today, Mr. Speaker, millions of cords of wood in this Province that will not be able to be harvested. It will be of no value economically and it will not be able to be harvested because the companies have not got the wherewithal to harvest it in time before the wood spoils.

And we allow the wood to sit there < i

May 15, 1978 Tape 3122 IB-3 MR. RIDEOUT: because it is on the Bowater claim or the Price claim. Labrador Linerboard cannot get at it. Yet,they are forced to close down their operation. What kind of nonsense is it, Mr. Speaker, that allows a government to sit back knowing all these facts? All these facts were brought out in the Labrador Linerboard debate last year that we had in this House of Assembly and yet no action was taken by the governmen .t. They let the mill close down. Mr. Speaker, J: r ~ r I

~l3.y 15, 1978 Tape No. 3123 RT-1 ~IR. T. RIDEOU'.r: vou would think that the last thing in the world the Government wanted to do was to close down an industry and I believe that that is the case. But yet the very fundamental steps that they could have taken to realign the timber resource in this Province so that Linerboard could get cheaper wood, they refused to take, and yet they want us to believe that they have left no stone unturned in their efforts to keep Labrador Linerboard from closing down.

Mr. speaker, it is just too much, it is too much for us to accept, it is too much for the people of this Province to accept that this Government really explored every avenue open to them to keep that Linerboard mill open.

Now I am so hepped on the Labrador Linerboard situation because it means so much to many parts of the district that I represent and it really strikes me as nothing only inefficiency and gross neglect that this Government did not call together the major paper companies and the other companies ~hat have wood concessions in this Province, and say, 'Look, what is needed is a realignment of the timber resources of this Province so that Linerboard can have an economical supply of wood'. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. They did not have that so the Government says.

So if we are to believe that theory. then we would have expected that the C~vernment would try to do something about it rather than putting the padlock on the door. Gross inefficiency on the Government's part that they did not do those types of things and now, of course, we are reaping the benefit of it today. They talk about resettlement in this Province, Hr.

Speaker, they try to shove · ~~settlement down the throats of many people on this side of the House who had nothing to do with it, and the Minister need not laugh because in many cases - I am not ashamed· of it - if you ask the people living i~ LaScie in my district who came from the Horse Islands about resettlement you will not find many complaints. They will say they did not get enough assistance in moving and that type of thing, but they do not want to go back out there I can assure the Hinister. •. - ! , . . ! -. I" : li i: . ~~ . 'I . .. . i. • L 1' ' '

Yay 15, 1978 Tape No. 3123 RT-2 ~lR. T. RIDEOUT: They talk about that, but the closedown of Labrador Linerboard, Hr. Speaker, had the effect of resettlement. Resettlement all right, not from one small part of Newfoundland, one isolated part of Newfoundland to another part where they could get better services, but resettlement right out of the country, to Iran, that is the type of resettlement that we have seen from this particular Administration when part of the answer to the Labrador Linerboard situation was right at the fingertips of the Government if they had but the wisdom and the courage to explore it, Mr.

Speaker. They should hang their heads in shame for what they have done over Labrador Linerboard. There was no need for that operation to close down and for a town of twelve or fourteen hundred people, like Roddickton in my district, to be on its knees now because they cannot sell pulpwood and therefore it is not economical to cut the - in fact it is a waste _ , of the forest to cut the •·mod that is there and the. small pulpwood had ·I to be left to rot on the ground. They should hang their heads in shame that they allowed that to happen without exploring every possible means of keeping Labrador Linerboard open.

Mr. Speaker, that brings me to another subject and that is what is happening with our forest resource in this Province today. The forest resource is a renewable resource, one that we should be as concerned about as the Fishery. We should be as equally concerned about preserving the forests of this Province for the future needs of the people of this Province as we are about the Fishery. I am not saying we are too concerned about the Fishery, you cannot be too concerned, I: but what I am saying is that we shoulci be as equally concerned about the forests.

We have not done it and there is no evidence that it is being . L II ·! done. For example, down in Roddickton in the northern part of my district there exists one, Canada Bay Lumber Company, and, Mr. Speaker, that is the only means of employment in that community of twelve or fourteen hundred people today. Roddickton is not a fishing community,

'ay 16, 1978 Tape 1\o . 312J RT-3 HR. T. RIDEOUT: has never been a fishing co~unity over the last fifty or sixty years, and probably will not be a fishing co~unity anywhere we can see in the future, which makes it diffetent from Ertglee Which is totally a fishing community and totally dependent upon the Fishery. But Roddickton is dependent and has been dependant, down . ' ' through the _decades, upon the Forestry, and while Labrador Linerboard .:_ , was operat i ng, Mr. Speaker, then there were no problem$ because most of the logs down there are saw-log material.

The logs could be cut, the saw-logs fed to Canada Bay Lumber Company, cut into lumber and shipped to markets here in the Province or outside and the smaller wood that .was too small for saw-logs could be sold to Labrador Linerboard. It was an ideal situation, an ideal situation that allowed every - }(}{ , T. LUSii: A quorum call, Mr. Speaker, a quorum call, please ! HR . SPEAKER: Order, please! A quorum. call. Call in the members.

:-!ay 15, 197 8 Tape No. 3124 !·IR. SPEAKER: Order, please! I 1vill ask the Clerk of the House to count the House. I am informed a quorum is present. The han. member for Baie Verte -White Bay. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, as I Has saying in the beginning I think - and Mr. Speaker, which by the way came through very clearly to anybody who was watching the proceedings here todayf thepeople on the other side are like they are glue bound to their seats. They could not even get up and support in principle the half dozen or so petitions that tJere presented here today. }IR.. LUSH: Important petitions. MR.

RIDEOUT: Important petitions, calling on the government to reconsider its policy with regards to education or to broaden a bit its policy with regard to highway upgrading and paving and so on. All they do, Mr. Speaker, .is they sit over there and thev stare at you pres~nting a petition, like there is something wrong with you. It put in my mind, Mr. Speaker, a few little words of poetry that may have been caused by an event that came about over the weekend and I put it down like this.

Bounded like glue they sit and stare/Into space that is not clear/Wondering cringing about futures untold/Transfixed into stone by the CBC poll. SOME RON. ME!1BERS : Hear, hear! MR. LUSH: Tom you are a poet. MR. RIDEOUT: They were shocked when they saw the Goldfarb news two or three weeks ago and the Premier sloughed it off and said, "Aw we have got a 1700 or 1800 one coming out pretty soon. That will shock you fellows in your shoes." Then CBC comes out on the weekend with a poll that was more comprehensive than one we had done ourselves.

And I understand that the Premier has had similar polls done which shows the same thing. So they are over there staring into space, Mr. Speaker, knowing that their days are numbered, ; L j ' I t [ k " t t

~!ay 15' 1978 Tape No . 3124 ~'H - 2 !1R. RIDEOUT: huddled around rne Cabinet table trying to prop themse lves up for the next two years in the hope that the crisis ~nll disappea r, in the hope that it •.rill go away, io. the hope ·chat the Opposition . 'Hill leave t hem alone. Because they are shimmying in their shoes every day now at Questi on Period, do no t know what is coming n~xt . :-!R. LUSH: Even the old vete rans are starting to resign. MR . RID EO In : P~ping that :he Opposition will get off the is sues that are really putting the dart inco tne government and making them shake in their shoes . So, Mr.

Speaker, it is a sad state of government that we have in this Province today when we have that type of administration. Now before I was ?aylaiq, Mr. Speaker, I was talking about Labrador Linerboard in respect to bow it affects my particular district and I was explaining how Canada Bay Lumber Company, the only industrial operation in the Roddickton area, how it i ' ..

~!ay 15, 1978 Tape 3125 EC - 1 MR. RIDEOUT; could operate so effectively when Labrador Linerboard was in production, but now the growth and the effective operation of that industry has been stymied because they have nowhere to sell their pulpwood material. Mr.

Speaker, the people were so concerned about it that early this year we arranged to have the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture come down to Roddick ton with some of his officials so that the people of the community and the council could present a brief to him and outline some positive proposals whereby, if Labrador Linerboard is not opening up in the foreseeable future, government could assist the people of that area, provide a few hundred jobs for the people · of the area and assist the economy of the area. We have not heard a stir about it since, Mr. Speaker, and that is some four ' or five W~onths ago.

And we proposed to the government at that time,in the knowledge that we had from Bowaters, that they would be delighted to take 30,000 cords of pulpwood from the Northern Peninsula area - they would be absolutely delighted to do so, and especially since a lot of