Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 79B (39th Legislature, 2nd Session)

39-2-79b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LX No. 79B – 1:30 p.m., Thursday, October 2, 2008 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P.

DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St.

Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MARCELINO, Flor Wellington N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. Vacant Elmwood

3713 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, October 2, 2008 The House met at 1:30 p.m. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PETITIONS Hard Surfacing Unpaved Portion– Provincial Road 340 Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition. All Manitobans deserve access to well- maintained rural highways as this is critical to both motorist safety and to commerce. Provincial Highway 340 is a well-utilized road.

Heavy vehicles from potato and livestock operations, agricultural-related businesses, Hutterite colonies and the Maple Le af plant in Brandon use this road. Vehicles from Canadian Forces Base Shilo also travel this busy road. Commuter traffic from Wawanesa, Stockton, Nesbitt and surrounding farms to Shilo and Brandon is common on this road. Provincial Highway 340 is an alternate route for many motorists travelling to Brandon coming off Provincial Highway 2 east and to Winnipeg via the Trans-Canada Highway 1. An upgrade to this road would ease the traffic congestion on Provincial Highway 10.

Access to the Criddle-Vane Homestead Provincial Park would be greatly enhanced if this road were improved. The hard surfacing of the unpaved portion of PR 340 south of Canadian Forces Base Shilo towards Wawanesa would address the last few neglected kilometres of this road and increase the safety of motorists who travel on it. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr. Lemieux) to consider hard surfacing of the unpaved portion of Provincial Road 340 south of Canadian Forces Base Shilo towards Wawanesa.

This petition signed by Randy Haverchuk, Clayton Smith, Bernice Maksymic and many, many others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Increased School Facilities– Garden Valley School Division Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition. The student enrolment in Garden Valley School Division has risen steadily for the last 10 years.

Since 2005, the enrolment has risen by more than 700 students, from 3,361 students to 4,079 students, a 21 percent increase. Since September 2007, the enrolment has increased by 325 students, an increase of 8.7 percent. Currently, 1,050 students, or 26 percent, are in 42 portable classrooms without adequate access to bathrooms. There are 1,210 students in a high school built for 750 students; 375 students are located in 15 portables without adequate access to bathrooms.

Projected enrolment increases based on immigration through the Provincial Nominee Program reveals the school division enrolment will double in the next 12 years. Student safety, school security, reasonable access to bathrooms and diminished student learning are concerns that need immediate attention. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Education, Citizenship and Youth (Mr. Bjornson) to consider providing the necessary facilities to Garden Valley School Division. To urge the Minister of Education, Citizenship and Youth to consider providing the Garden Valley

3714 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2008 School Division an immediate date as to when to expect the necessary school facilities. This is signed by Pete Thiessen, Phyllis Thiessen, Jake Unrau and many, many others. Hard Surfacing Unpaved Portion– Provincial Road 340 Mr. Cliff Cullen (Turtle Mountain): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition. All Manitobans deserve access to well- maintained rural highways as this is critical to both motorist safety and to commerce. Provincial Road 340 is a well-utilized road.

Heavy vehicles from potato and livestock operations, agricultural-related businesses, Hutterite colonies and the Maple Le af plant in Brandon use this road. Vehicles from Canadian Forces Base Shilo also travel this busy road. Commuter traffic from Wawanesa, Stockton, Nesbitt and surrounding farms to Shilo and Brandon is common on this road. Provincial Road 340 is an alternate route for many motorists travelling to Brandon coming off PTH 2 east and to Winnipeg via the Trans-Canada Highway. An upgrade to this road would ease the traffic congestion on PTH 10.

Access to the Criddle-Vane Homestead Provincial Park would be greatly enhanced if this road were improved. The hard surfacing of the unpaved portion of PR 340 south of Canadian Forces Base Shilo towards Wawanesa would address the last few neglected kilometres of this road and increase the safety of motorists who travel on it. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr. Lemieux) to consider hard surfacing of the unpaved portion of PR 340 south of Canadian Forces Base Shilo towards Wawanesa.

This petition is signed by Jackie Wilton, Dave Lenathen, R. J. Wilton and many other Manitobans. Education Funding Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon West): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows: Historically, the Province of Manitoba has received funding for educati on by the assessment of property that generates taxes. This unfair tax is only applied to selected property owners in certain areas and confines.

Property-based school tax is becoming an ever- increasing burden without acknowledging the owner's income or owner's ability to pay. The provincial sales tax was instituted for the purpose of funding education. However, monies generated by this tax are being placed in general revenues. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Education, Citizenship and Youth (Mr. Bjornson) consider removing education funding by school tax or education levies from all property in Manitoba.

To request that the Minister of Education, Citizenship and Youth consider finding a more equitable method of funding education such as general revenue following the constitutional funding of education by the Province of Manitoba. This petition, Mr. Speaker, is signed by Caroline McFerran, Donna Wojciechowski, Donna Rogan and many other fine Manitobans. Physician Recruitment–Southwestern Manitoba Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

These are the reasons for this petition: The Town of Virden has the last hospital in Manitoba on the busy Trans-Canada Highway travelling west. For the safety of recreational travellers, long- haul truck drivers, oil and agricultural industry workers and its citizens, Virden, a town of nearly 4,000, requires emergency services at its hospital. On June 30, 2008, the emergency room at the Virden Hospital was closed due to this government's failure to recruit and retain doctors for southwest

October 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3715 Manitoba and its failure to plan for the departure of doctors whose contracts were expiring. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald) to consider creating a health-care environment in which doctors want to work and build their careers in Manitoba. To request the Minister of Health to consider making it a priority to recruit doctors to southwestern Manitoba so emergency rooms do not have to be closed when they are needed most.

This petition is signed by: Bryan MacDonald, Brandon Forbes, Jim Moffatt, Patricia Wright and many, many others. Crocus Investment Fund–Public Inquiry Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to the petition is as follows: The 2007 provincial election did not clear the NDP government of any negligence with regard to the Crocus Fund fiasco. The government needs to uncover the whole truth as to what ultimately led to over 33,000 Crocus shareholders to lose tens of millions of dollars.

The provincial auditor's report, the Manitoba Securities Commission's investigation, the RCMP investigation and the involvement of revenue Canada and our courts, collectively, will not answer the questions that must be answered in regard to the Crocus Fund fiasco. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Premier (Mr. Doer) and his NDP government to co-operate in uncovering the truth in why the government did not act on what it knew and to consider calling a public inquiry on the Crocus Fund fiasco. Mr.

Speaker, this is signed by Simone Mailhot, Max Qually, Gayle Andrews and many, many other fine Manitobans. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Jim Rondeau (Minister of Science, Technology, Energy and Mines): Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to present the 2007-2008 Annual Report for Green Manitoba. In addition, I' m pleased to present the 2007- 2008 Annual Report for MERLIN, the Manitoba Education, Research and Learning Information Networks. Also, I'm very pleased to present the 2007-2008 Annual Report for the Industrial Technology Centre. Thank you. Hon.

Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): I'd like to table the following: the '07 Annual Reports for the Residential Tenancies Branch and the Residential Tenancies Commission, as well as the '07-08 Annual Reports for the Automobi le Injury Compensation Appeal Commission, Vital Statistics, Companies Office and the Manitoba Securities Commission. * (13:40) Introduction of Guests Mr.

Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the Speaker's Gallery where we have with us today Honourable Rory McEwen who is the Minister of Agriculture, Food, Fisheries and the Minister for Forestry from Australia. On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. Also in the public gallery we have from Options 4 Success Incorporation 54 visitors under the direction of Mr. Brad Tyler-West. This group is located in the constituency of the honourable Member for Point Douglas (Mr. Hickes). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you all here today.

ORAL QUESTIONS Pandemic Planning Status Report Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): About five and a ha lf years ago, there was a severe outbreak of SARS in the province of Ontario. There were 375 cases of people who had SARS, 44 deaths in that outbreak, and over the course of that pandemic there were some 8,098 cases in 31 countries worldwide. In the aftermath of the SARS outbreak, in 2003, there was a flurry of activity in jurisdictions across the country, including here in Manitoba. There were concerns expressed over four years ago in the

3716 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2008 emergency room task force report which has come up in the context of the ER tragedy of a couple of weeks ago, but another comment in that report was that many departments also have concerns about the ability to provide adequate infection control measures in light of concerns raised by SARS and pandemic influenza. Three years ago, Mr.

Speaker, in the Speech from the Throne in October of 2005, the government said, and I quote: "Planning for a pandemic has received the highest priority . . . ." Shortly thereafter, on November 23 of 2005, the then-Minister of Health put out a news release discussing pandemic guidelines where he said: Preparing for emergencies is a high priority for the Manitoba government–Sale. Then, Mr.

Speaker, there was, with much fanfare, in December of 20 05, a bill introduced in this House–this is 34 months ago–it was a new public health act, and the minister said in his news release that this would replace legislation enacted in 1965. It would build on the framework established after 9/11, and Minister Sale said at the time: With this comprehensive and up-to-date legislation, public health officials will be better able to identify health threats and respond quickly in the case of a health emergency.

I want to just ask the Premier: Given that it was the top priority of his government, has he asked for and received any briefings on the status of pandemic planning, and can he confirm to the House that all work in connection with preparing for pandemics in Manitoba has been completed? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I would point out that the Emergency Measures people and all the municipal leaders had various meetings on pandemic planning, including with the regional health authorities, following the announcement that was made. Further, Mr.

Speaker, the Health Sciences Centre, which the member opposite referenced, had no adequate isolation rooms when the capital was deferred seven times in the 1990s. Since the new capital has been introduced, in the operating rooms and the acute-care

section of the Health Sciences Centre and the reformed an d redeveloped area of the Children's Hospital, the critical care unit does have isolation rooms. It was part of the announcement that was made at the time. It was also part of the announcement that was revealed to the public when that facility was opened. The new Seven Oaks emergency ward and the changes there include capacity in a similar way. I believe that the new

section of the Concordia Hospital emergency ward includes similar isolation rooms. It's also being connected to the old emergency ward in terms of its capacity. So many of the recommendations that have been made in terms of capacity have been implemented, with major capital investments I might say. In terms of other areas under The Public Health Act, we're still dealing with one outstanding issue dealing with anti-sniffing strategies th at we think is a very important public health issue that we have to resolve with the people on the front lines.

I would also point out, and perhaps I can in the next question, some of the other areas we're working on in terms of the front-line community health-care activist, Mr. Speaker. The Public Health Act Proclamation Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, he's indicating through his answer and his non-response to the question that he's not satisfied that all of the work that had been called for back in 2005 has been complete. He has made reference to some capital projects.

I just want to ask him: Given that the bill, the public health legislation, which the then-minister Tim Sale said would help identify health threats and respond quickly in the case of a health emergency, this bill which was introduced 34 months ago in December of 2005 and passed on June 13, 2006, 27 months ago, I wonder if he can indicate to the House why it is that he hasn't gotten around to proclaiming it yet. Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): In my previous answer I stated that the act hadn't been proclaimed because we're still working with the issue of anti-sniffing prevention, so this is not a revelation.

That is not to say that there are not a number of actions that have been taking place following the SARS incident, which I might say, Mr. Speaker, there have been other incidents of similar–not similar, but there are other incidents of concern. The first recommendation we had, and we have implemented it, was to have every health-care professional that is dealing on the front lines of medicine be alerted to the issues of containment of any infectious disease. The other area that we were recommended that we follow is the whole area of first responders in municipalities. The Emergency

October 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3717 Measures Organization has had those meetings some two years ago. We also had inadequate capital containment facilities. If the old Health Sciences Centre had been reformed under the members opposite, we would have had the isolation rooms. Regrettably that did not happen. It would only open a short time ago. As we speak, Mr. Speaker, there are workers completing isolation rooms at Concordia Hospital as part of the major capital investment in that hospital. So we are implementing a number of the recommendations dealing post-SARS in terms of infectious disease.

We're also dealing with issues of public health, including sniffing prevention strategies, also as part of the proclamation of that bill. But when you build isolation rooms in the critical care unit of the Health Sciences Centre, when you have capacity at the emergency wards, when you improve isolation capacity at the Children's Hospital, the new emergency ward, when you have, as we speak, rooms being completed at Concordia Hospital, rooms that have been completed at Seven Oaks Hospital, capacity built in western Manitoba, Mr. Speaker, every– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: Mr.

Speaker, there's considerable work on implementing strategies from our public health agencies and our regional health management dealing with the capital facilities that are necessary to implement the protocols that have been put in place with health-care responders all across Manitoba. I want to say that I want to thank all the staff, the first responders, the chief medical officers and volunteers in many of the municipalities who have volunteered their time to attend meetings with the Emergency Measures Manitoba.

I want to thank all those volunteers and professional staff that have been putting a considerable amount of time to have a more effective response to very serious health-care challenges, Mr. Speaker. * (13:50) Mr. McFadyen: Mr. Speaker, the law was passed 27 months ago, and rather than giving 27-minute- long-non-answers to the questions, the fact is the act contains a number of important powers that would allow the government to deal with emergencies, and they haven't yet, 27 months after its passage, gotten around to proclaiming it.

He said in the Throne Speech in October of 2005: "Planning for a pandemic has received the highest priority . . . ." It's not one of our highest priorities. I know he's like the federal Liberal leader. He knows it's hard setting priorities, but it says very clearly in the Throne Speech: "Planning for a pandemic has received the highest priority . . .", over three years ago. The act has been in place for 27 months. It hasn't been proclaimed.

The news release which sounded just terrific at the time said that the act would require–the news release says, and I quote: would require the appointment of a chief provincial public health officer to oversee the provincial public health system. That's the first bullet on the news release. Mr. Speaker, I'm sure that they got great coverage coming off of that news release.

I want to ask the Premier if he can indicate whether they have hired anybody to fill that position separate from the chief medical officer of health, and I also want to ask him if he's aware of the most recent accreditation report with respect to the Department of Health and the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority which says, and I quote: that the WRHA has not completed its regional disaster plan and that there's a potential adverse effect. The report says, and I quote: There may be an inability to respond to a pandemic situation given the current situation. This is the most recent report.

The report goes on to say, and I quote: Manitoba Health has not yet finalized the provincial plan. I want to ask the Premier to update us on the announcement made almost three years ago on the provincial public health officer and indicate why it is that the outside, independent accreditor in the most recent report is saying that they're not yet ready, when he said three years ago it was his top priority. I want to ask the Premier: Is protecting the health of Manitobans against an outbreak that could lead to many deaths, is it his top priority or was it just the usual Throne Speech spin? Mr.

Doer: I believe the national report on accreditation dealing with health agencies across Canada has a comparable assessment of all provinces in this regard.

3718 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2008 I would point out, Mr. Speaker, that the law–and I know the member is a la wyer and deals only in laws, but laws do not preclude action. We are working on one component of the law with the Human Rights Commission dealing with some parts of a disagreement on the balance between the individual rights of citizens, which is very important in the law, and the collective rights of the community to be protected in a pandemic situation.

We're trying to resolve that issue with the Human Rights Commission, as I understand it, and that's the issue of the proclamation of the law. Mr. Speaker, I would recall–and the member should recall–that Dr. Kettner presented the Pandemic Influenza Preparedness Guidelines report for local governments at the AMM. He is our chief medical officer in Manitoba, as I indicated in the answer to my first question. I've indicated in my answer to my first question the capital work that we've done in terms of surveillance. We've implemented a surveillance system for outbreaks detection and reporting.

We've expanded our illness monitoring at schools and stronger lab monitoring across Manitoba. We've strengthened our vaccine and antiviral strategies. We've strengthened the public health measures, such as quarantining. We have stockpiled 600,000 doses of antiviral drugs to deal with a potential pandemic, whether it's food safety and the listeriosis situation in Canada or whether it's what happened out of the SARS incident in Ontario and British Columbia. We have excellent public health leadership here in Manitoba. We have excellent people in our disease lab here in Manitoba.

We have put in place a number of measures. Mr. Speaker, is anybody going to say that any government anywhere in the world has absolute infallible measures in place? No. But we've made a lot of progress, and we hope to close the gap on the proclamation of the law that also provides more protection for the public good and hopefully can deal with the concerns of individual rights of citizens. Pandemic Planning Winnipeg Regional Health Authority Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, the crisis in our ERs right now does not bode well if a pandemic is going to hit Manitoba.

If our ERs are struggling right now to care for patients, it's going to be a thousand times worse if and when a pandemic hits Manitoba. Ontario certainly experi enced it five and a half years ago with SARS. So when the WRHA was undergoing accreditation in November, they were told to complete their pandemic planning; otherwise they might not be able to respond to a pandemic. Considering that the Premier (Mr. Doer) is not up to speed on this issue, can the Minister of Health tell us today if the WRHA has now completed its pandemic planning? Hon.

Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): I'm happy to inform the House, of course, that preparing for pandemics and preparing for infection control is a very important part of what the WRHA and, indeed, all regions in the province are doing. We know, of course, Mr. Speaker, that with capital infrastructure and new construction of emergency rooms, we've seen a creation of negative pressure rooms, decontamination rooms, as well as isolation rooms for these very issues. Training is ongoing for staff.

We know, of course, that we need to continue working not only here in Manitoba but across the nation, because, of course, a pandemic situation will not occur in one isolated city, in one isolated place in Manitoba. It needs to be a national effort and that's what we're working to do. Status Report Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): The Minister of Health needs to take this more seriously. According to the accreditation report, the WRHA does not have a pandemic plan finalized but neither does Manitoba Health, and they should be providing the leadership in this. Mr.

Speaker, if or when a pandemic hits Manitoba, according to their own Web site, 410,000 Manitobans will get sick and between 4,000 and 6,000 Manitobans will die. So we need to be ready for this. I'd like to ask the Minister of Health to tell us when she will have her own provincial pandemic plan completed. Is it done now or does she have a time line in which it will be completed? Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): I can let the member opposite know, of course, that other jurisdictions in the nation have turned to Manitoba for its leadership on pandemic planning, in particular Ontario, as she cites.

We know that we have an unprecedented, in its scope, plan, including enhanced surveillance systems

October 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3719 for outbreak detection and reporting, expanded illness monitoring in schools and stronger lab monitoring. We know that we've strengthened vaccine and antiviral strategies to target priority groups. We know that we strengthened public health measures such as quarantining. I would think the member opposite would know that pandemic planning never stops because these illnesses are very dynamic, Mr. Speaker. Mrs.

Driedger: Outside accreditors, the Canadian Council on Health Services accreditation, in their external report, the accreditation survey report, indicated that the WRHA had not completed their pandemic planning and that there was not a completed provincial plan. They are the ones that are saying Manitoba will not be ready unless these plans are completed. I'd like to ask the Minister of Health: Where has her leadership on this been , because we are talking about a significant issue if a pandemic hits Manitoba? Ms.

Oswald: The member might be interested to know that the Deputy Minister of Health for Manitoba today is in Washington, having been invited there to do a presentation on pandemic planning to the Pan Am Health Organization. We were invited because of our leadership. On the subject of leadership, Mr. Speaker, I might also mention that, days before the federal election was called, the provincial-territorial ministers of Health gathered with the federal minister to discuss pandemic planning, to come to an agreement on how we would work together, in unison.

The member might be interested to note that the federal minister refused to put money on the table to help with pandemic planning, curious indeed. * (14:00) Shamattawa Aboriginal Youth Suicides Prevention Strategy Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): Mr. Speaker, on May 14 of this year, I asked the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs what he was doing to address the devastating rate of Aboriginal youth suicides in Manitoba. The minister responded that he was leading a delegation of two to three ministers to Shamattawa to discuss the issue of epidemic youth suicides.

The people of Manitoba, in particular the children of Manitoba, deserve clear answers from this government. My question is for the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs. Can the minister tell the House today when he went to Shamattawa, which ministers accompanied him and what the outcomes of those meetings were? Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minis ter of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs): I thank the member for the question because it gives me an opportunity to give a progress report as to what happened since I made a commitment in this House in June to go to Shamattawa with some of my colleagues.

The Minister of Healthy Living (Ms. Irvin-Ross) accompanied me to Shamattawa, some staff people, and we spent a whole day in Shamattawa, meeting with the chief and council, talking about some of the issues that they were facing in their community. As a result of that meeting in Shamattawa, we were able to come up with some short-term planning and long- term planning. In the short term, we were able to bring some people, young people, from Shamattawa. For example, seven young people were brought– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mrs. Rowat: Mr. Speaker, on September 25, a 14-year-old girl committed suicide.

This was her third attempt at taking her life. Her home community was Shamattawa. This week, a nine-year-old boy from Manto Sipi Cree Nation God's River took his life. Also within this time frame, a youth from York Landing had attempted to end his life. Mr. Speaker, this issue is serious and it's intensifying. The reality is these children are falling through the cracks. Children are losing their lives. The ones left behind, the families and their communities are trying to maintain strength and to remain focussed, but they are also losing hope. Mr.

Speaker, on May 14, the minister promised a comprehensive suicide prevention strategy. What is the status of this much-needed strategy? Mr. Lathlin: The young people that were brought into Winnipeg spent some time in Winnipeg training in a sports leadership program, and after the training they were able to go back to Shamattawa to provide leadership in their community. As well, we spent a week-long summer camp that was provided in the community of Shamattawa

3720 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2008 in August. Some 88 children participated in the camp. Then we have the Swim to Survive program that was delivered in Shamattawa in July. Approximately 60 kids participated in that program. Then we have some planning for the long term. We've already committed $200,000 towards the construction of a youth centre. We're now trying to get the federal government to come on board and cost share the program with us. So that's what we've done so far. Mrs. Rowat: Mr.

Speaker, the comprehensive suicide strategy that this minister promised in May is not before us, and I would encourage the minister to share that when he does have that strategy prepared. Mr. Speaker, there's a dramatic increase in suicide in recent years with a significant increase among children under 14 years of age. This government has been promising to address this issue for years, and nothing has changed except more children are dying at a younger age. Mr.

Speaker, I'd like to ask the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affa irs: As an advocate for Aboriginal families, why are you remaining silent on this very serious issue? Where is the strategy that they promised to put into place immediately? Bring the strategy into play. Mr. Lathlin: We're not silent about the issue in Shamattawa. We're taking action. In fact, on the 25th and 26th of September, some of our staff from Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, Culture, Tourism, Heritage and Sport and Sport Manitoba visited Shamattawa again.

While they were there, they were able to engage the community leaders in a planning process, and some projects will come about as a result of that planning meeting. In fact, in two weeks I'll be going back to Shamattawa to meet with the community leaders again. Taman Inquiry Report Release to Family Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, on Tuesday of this week, the Minister of Justice received the public inquiry report into the death of Crystal Taman. This morning I spoke with Robert Taman, who has yet to see the report into the tragic circumstances surrounding the death of his wife.

Understandably, he is frustrated and he is angry that he has not yet been shown the report despite the fact the minister has had it for two days. If the minister is not going to release this report publicly prior to the weekend, could he please assure the family of Crystal Taman that he will at least speak with them and share with them the report. Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I've spoken with the family. Mr. Goertzen: And when I spoke with Mr. Taman this morning, I'm aware that the minister has spoken with the family.

While that is appreciated, what they are looking for is the ability to see the report that the minister has had for two days. I'm not asking the minister to share the report with me. I'm not asking him even to make it public, even though I think he should do that sooner than later. What I am asking him to do is to share it with the family of Crystal Taman. They've waited too long for answers and they shouldn't have to wait any longer. Mr. Chomiak: One of the things that I want to be most careful about, Mr. Speaker, is two issues.

One is the entire principle of how the justice system deals with the issue, and the other is that we treat all of the victims and family members with respect and with candidness. I have spoken with both the Sveinson family and Mr. Taman, Mr. Speaker, and I will try, as hard as I humanly can, to not let this become a political football. U.S. Economic Situation Impact on Local Economy Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon West): Mr. Speaker, I have to admit that the more I read about and the more I listen to economic forecasts, the more concerned I get, but it seems the Minister of Finance doesn't share my concerns.

Yesterday in a local newspaper, in his typical what-me-worry kind of attitude, he went on to say that the U.S. recession and global economic downturn will have a minimal effect on the Manitoba economy. Rather than simply live in a dream world, I wonder if the Finance Minister can actually tell us what he plans on doing when revenues decrease, when equalization payments are reduced and when borrowing costs increase. Does he have a fiscal plan to follow, Mr. Speaker?

October 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3721 Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): First of all, Mr. Speaker, the member is doing what he so often does. He's misquoting myself and he's clearly not understanding what's written in the articles. We said, yesterday, and we've continued to say that nobody is immune from some of the problems that are going on in the United States. There's a global impact going on around that. That being said, Manitoba is in a relatively good position to respond to those challenges for a variety of reasons.

First of all, the productivity of labour in Manitoba has increased through a variety of initiatives by private companies, some of those done in partnership with government programs, such as the Advanced Manufacturing Initiative. Secondly, the overhead co sts, which are partly incurred through taxation, have been reduced in Manitoba with corporate income taxes going down from 17 percent to 13 percent and further going down to 12 percent. Small-business tax rates are now the lowest in the country, and I'll give further information on my next question. Mr. Borotsik: Mr.

Speaker, the spin and the bravado and the rhetoric doesn't really cut it. I simply asked a simple question. We recognize that manufacturers and industry in Manitoba are doing their part. There's no question. We have some very good entrepreneurs in spite of the fact that this government throws roadblocks in their way all the time. They are doing their best to keep the economy in Manitoba going. What I'm saying is there are storm clouds. There are going to be reductions in revenues. There are going to be equalization payments reductions, Mr. Speaker.

As much as the minister wants to suggest that nothing is going to happen, it is happening now. It's happening right now. What plan does the minister have, when those costs go up and those revenues come down, to make sure that Manitobans are going to be able to survive this economic downturn? * (14:10) Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, this is a good question. This is why we have just in the Public Accounts reported that we have a Fiscal Stabilization Fund that is $818 million, double what it was, more than double what it was, when we came into office.

This is why we have made sure that we have a number of arrangements in place in terms of future program planning to manage those programs to ensure they get the best value for Manitoba. We have very sufficient supplies of liquidity put in place to manage any program needs going forward.

We've had a credit-rating upgrade which has identified the strengths of the Manitoba economy and the government of Manitoba, including a very diverse economy where the manufacturing sector is outpacing the Canadian average, including a GDP growth rate which is higher than the Canadian average, including job creation which is higher than the Canadian average. All of these things have been aided in part by some of the measures we have put in place– Mr. Speaker: Order. Country-of-Origin Labelling Tabling of Government Plans Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Mr.

Speaker, over the past year, we have asked a number of questions in regard to the country-of-origin labelling. U.S. pork producers, such as Smithfi eld and Hormel, say they will stop taking Canadian slaughter hogs because of the new country-of-origin labelling legislation. Manitoba Pork Marketing Co-op has warned that if either of Manitoba's two federally inspected processors were to shut down for any reason, there would be serious problems handling those pigs here in Canada. Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Agriculture table for the House her plans in regard to country-of- origin labelling? Hon.

Rosann Wowchuk (Minis ter of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): Mr. Speaker, the issue of country-of-origin labelling is one that we have put a lot of work into. We have had legal advice. We've had counsel working with the U.S. government. The rule that should be coming into place has three options for labelling. We're hoping those labels will go through, and we can continue to market–when that law goes through, we can continue to have trade between the two countries. It is very important for our producers.

It's very important for U.S. producers, and it is very important for the U.S. processing industry that there is a system developed that will allow for the continuation of movement of live animals into the U.S. Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, obviously the minister doesn't have a plan. We need more than just hope. We need some action by this government. The minister has listened to us. I have to give her credit for the cash flowed in regard to TB testing.

3722 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2008 Obviously, Mr. Speaker, she hasn't got her federal counterparts onside yet, but it's clear this government–the Alberta government has developed a comprehensive meat plan and livestock strategy, focusses on expanding export commodities, increasing market access through foreign investment. We see other provinces working hard to ensure livestock producers have a competitive advantage. They're trying to shut the livestock industry down here in Manitoba with Bill 17. Mr.

Speaker, will the Minister of Agriculture today outline her strategy to ensure our tools are in place for our producers here in Manitoba, to look after our producers today? Ms. Wowchuk: You know, Mr. Speaker, agriculture is broader than the meat industry. There is also the Canadian Wheat Board that is a very important piece of legislation that is in place for our farmers to market their wheat and barley. We cannot get a position from the members opposite on that despite the fact that producers have asked them to. Mr.

Speaker, with regard to meat processing, I would remind the member that it is this government that has worked with Hytek to expand the facility in Neepawa. It is this government that has worked with Maple Leaf to expand the slaughter capacity in Brandon. We have to look for solutions at home should that border close, and one of them is to have increased slaughter capacity . I would encourage the member to get on board with the industry rather than to constantly criticize. Federal Liberal Green Plan Government Support Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, I see the Premier's following our Liberal lead in supporting efforts to end smoking in cars with kids and to consider making booster seats mandatory. Like his original opposition to these progressive measures, the Premier has opposed the green shift. A single working parent living in Manitoba with two children and earning $20,000 a year will receive more than $2,000 each year in additional income under the green shift.

When there's great urgency to reduce greenhouse gases, when there's a great need to reduce poverty and help struggling parents in Manitoba, when will the Premier come on board and support the green shift? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Well, Mr. Speaker, there's a green shift that allows people to save money through energy efficiency, and there's another green shift that requires people to pay more money, as we see proposed by the member opposite.

We're against the piling on that is being proposed by a party which I won't talk about in this House, because, obviously, we don't want to be part of the federal election, but I would suggest, Mr.

Speaker, that if you were to go to Churchill and look at what the fossil fuel costs have meant to the increased transportation costs of food to northern Manitoba, when you look at a senior citizen in Manitoba that may not be paying tax because of lower income, but because they have the gas prices that have gone up across North America that would be taxed, and natural gas being taxed, we don't think it's appropriate to pile on to low-income families. But that's why there's a democracy. We'll find out how well this idea works and how well it doesn't work.

I noticed that you are working in your own community and I'm working in mine, and that's why democracy's a great thing, as it was in 2007. The people are never wrong, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Gerrard: I note that the Premier was out campaigning recently with Jack Layton, and maybe after the election he'll be looking for Jack Layton's job, who knows? Mr. Speaker, with two rece nt shocking deaths of children in care in Shamattawa, this is a situation which has badly needed attention, absolutely. Mr. Speaker: Order. The initial question was on the green shift, and now the honourable member is going in another direction.

Supplementary questions should seek further information on the initial question. So I hope the honourable member will tie the two together here. I'll give him the opportunity. Mr. Gerrard: Absolutely, Mr. Speaker. The green shift is a very effective way to help poor families in Shamattawa and a lot of other communities, and the fact of the matter is instead of helping people, the minister is operating and the Premier is operating a system which tends to take far too many people into care instead of helping people keep them in their own families.

It makes a big difference if you're in Shamattawa as a single parent and you've got two kids and you're getting 2,000 extra dollars a year. Why are you against that?

October 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3723 Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, at some point we'd like to work with the federal go vernment. In fact, we've been proposing for a number of years to remove diesel fuel from some of our communities and go to either–we had the east-side transmission line which we were involved in between '86 and '88 that has removed diesel fuel, but there are communities in northern Manitoba that have diesel fuel in them, regrettably. I'd like to ask the member: Does he support putting a tax on diesel fuel in those remote communities? Mr. Gerrard: Mr.

Speaker, one of the interesting things about the green shift is it provides dollars to help communities adjust to the new world where we've got to be greener and we're using things like alternate fuels and green wind power, et cetera. The fact of the matter is that the Premier's working in the past, and Liberals are trying to address the problems of the present and looking forward. The Premier, in fact, is standing up for people in Alberta who are going to have to pay extra taxes because they're using coal and natural gas to generate electricity.

Why is the Premier campaigning for people in Alberta instead of supporting Manitobans? When will the Premier start standing up and supporting Manitobans and helping people in Manitoba communities? * (14:20) Mr. Doer: Well, Mr. Speaker, why should people in northern Manitoba, in remote communities, pay a higher tax for their heating fuel so somebody in Toronto that might be making $100,000 a year can get a tax reduction maybe down the road with the so-called green shift. I think people in northern Manitoba should be very, very careful about that kind of piling on.

I suggest to the member opposite he hasn't done his homework on what it will mean. The shift will mean that people in remote and distant places pay more tax and people in urban centres that might be able to have a subway system, which I think would be great, pay less tax. I think that's not the kind of shift we want to see in western Manitoba and in northern Manitoba, Mr. Speaker. Interlake Flooding Victims Government Information Brochure Mr. Tom Nevakshonoff (Interlake): Farmers in the Interlake have experienced one of the most difficult seasons in decades.

The Tory approach to this has been to conduct a disinformation campaign based totally on partisan politics, the result being confusion in the Interlake as to what programs are available. This behaviour is unconscionable, Mr. Speaker. This has only further exacerbated the problem. Can the Minister of Agriculture give us the status– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Nevakshonoff: I have to say I'm very disappointed, Mr. Speaker, that, when I'm trying to put an important question about this situation, I'm heckled by members opposite. It's disgraceful.

It's disgraceful, and they find it amusing, in addition. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Agriculture give us an update about the status of the harvest in this area and try and create some clarity here to combat the confusion that has been created by members opposite? Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minis ter of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): I thank my friend from the Interlake for raising this issue because it is, indeed, a very important issue and a challenge that our producers in the Interlake are facing.

We're all hopeful that with the weather that we've got right now producers can take off some of that crop and put up more hay, Mr. Speaker. But, Mr. Speaker, there has, indeed, been some misinformation put out, and that's why we have put out a brochure. It's been delivered to every farmer's mailbox, outlining all of the programs that are available. There is a series of meetings that have set up in all of the communities where farmers can come and help fill out their applications. Mr.

Speaker, the federal government has also sent producers a form outlining all that they can collect under their AgriStability/Invest, and I want to say as well that we have worked with the federal government to raise the amount that they can get an advance to 75 percent– Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Mahatma Gandhi Day Mr. Bidhu Jha (Radisson): With great pride, I rise today in recognition of October 2 being proclaimed Mahatma Ghandi Day in Manitoba.

3724 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2008 Mr. Speaker, in keeping with an international marking of Gandhi's birthday, the Premier (Mr. Doer) announced last month that today Manitoba would follow in paying tribute to this extraordinary spiritual and humanitarian leader of the last millennium. Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi was born this day in 1869 in a small village in Gujarat. Mahatma, the title bestowed upon him by India's legend poet and Nobel Laureate Rabindra Nath Tagore, means Great Soul. Mr.

Speaker, this half-naked faqir, as the British Prime Minister Churchill called him, changed the world by preaching the values of truth, peace and simplicity as weapons to conquer wars. His philosophy of non-violence has spread throughout the world, encompassing the rejection of violence against oneself, against others, against other groups, against other societies and against nature. In other words, Mahatma said: Non-violence is the greatest force at the di sposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man.

As a civil rights leader, Gandhi also saw entrenched poverty as the worst form of violence. The United Nations has proclaimed October 2 as the International Day of Non-Violence as a means of bringing awareness to the chronic hunger and dehumanizing poverty that still prevails in many parts of the world, including Canada. As such, it is a very important way to remain cognizant to the challenges of achieving a just and equitable society. To celebrate Mahatma Gandhi Day in Manitoba, there will be a ceremony at The Forks Market, involving a garlanding of the Mahatma statute and traditional singing.

I'm pleased to recognize some of the founding members of the Mahatma Gandhi Centre of Canada today, who are in the gallery. Mr. Speaker, Mahatma Gandhi Day is a very important day in Manitoba. Not only does it connect us in the real way of his teachings, it reminds us all that we are children of the same God, are brothers and sisters and that we continue our peaceful movement by working together to build a better world. Thank you very much. Mr.

Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): I would like to thank the Member for Radisson for the powerful words spoken today in tribute to a powerful figure on the world stage. I want to acknowledge Dr. Dakshinamurti and his wife, Mrs. Dakshinamurti, and others who are here as members of the Mahatma Gandhi Society. The Dakshinamurtis, as many will know, are making great contributions to our province in the field of health care, but do so also in very many other ways. I want to thank them for being here today. Today, as has been indicated, is the 139th anniversary of Mahatma Gandhi's birth.

We mark this occasion with the inaugural of Mahatma Gandhi Day. I was pleased to be part of the celebrations led by the Premier (Mr. Doer), the Member for Radisson and others on the grand staircase the other day. We reflect on the contributions of a great social activist, a revolutionary political figure and a benevolent leader for the independence of India. The world over, today is set aside as the International Day of Non-Violence, a day when the lessons gleaned from Gandhi's words and actions can compel us to build a gentler globe, structured on principles of compassion and tolerance.

Today in India, Prime Minister Singh paid tribute to the father of his nation, saying that Gandhi's message of peace and non-violence was especially relevant in our world today, a world marred by hatred and conflict, in his words. We are too often faced with sad realities: family torn apart by combat and conflict, refugees forced far from their homes by insurgency and instability. We are shown the ravages of war and asked to be satisfied citizens of such a world. At home in Manitoba, we confront our own challenges.

We know that, all too often today, many confront the ongoing vestiges of racism and other acts of intolerance. Mr. Speaker, we know that, if we listen for the words of Gandhi, we can hear that and, as he said: An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. We can use today to forge his ideals of non- violence and social justice toward the formation of a world more in line with his principles. For Gandhi, it was action, not words, that had meaning. We can use that mantra in channelling our energies and efforts toward building the best possible world. Thank you. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, in view of the significance– Mr. Speaker: Order.

October 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3725 Mr. Gerrard: –of the tribute to Mahatma Gandhi, I ask leave to say a few words. Mr. Speaker: Well, we normally have five members' statements and we're on members' statements, but the honourable member is asking if he could say a few words to this special occasion. Is the honourable Member– Some Honourable Members: Leave. Mr. Speaker: Okay. Mr. Gerrard: Mr.

Speaker, the role of Mahatma Gandhi in India and, indeed, around the world–his message of non-violence, of peace, the importance of what people can do for themselves in their own communities and in their own country is an extraordinary one and a very, very powerful one. That message echoes today and certainly reverberates here and elsewhere around the world as we deal with difficult issues and try to do our very best to deal with these in a way that is non-violent, that uses discussion and debate and finds solutions and compromises and effective solutions. Thank you. * (14:30) Mr.

Speaker: That was by special leave of the House, so we still have three members' statements, two for the government side and one for the official opposition. David Archibald Woodhouse Mr. Tom Nevakshonoff (Interlake): Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege for me to rise in the Chamber today to pay tribute to David Archibald Woodhouse, who passed away on September 19 of this year. Archie, as he was known to one and all, was a proud citizen of Pinaymootang First Nation, known to many of us as Fairford, and he has given to us all over the 60 years he walked this earth, the classic example of a life well lived.

First and foremost, he was a devoted family man who worked hard to provide for his family. His many varied endeavours included work in construction for Manitoba Hydro and Dominion Bridge. He performed his civic duty by serving as a band councillor for two terms. For a time, he lived a life on the land in a traditional style by working as a commercial fisherman, a trapper, hunter and as a beef cattle rancher.

His true calling as a business entrepreneur was evident throughout his life in that over time he operated a convenience store, pool hall, garage, the Fairford riverside tourism campground and the Powderhorn Creek Restaurant and Gas Bar. In addition, he was an inventor, as many commercial fishers will attest to, having patented and produced the powered under-ice crawler, which made the setting of nets in the harsh winter environment so much easier. It is noteworthy that one of his famous jiggers is now on display at the Smithsonian Institute in Washington, DC. In his spare time, Mr.

Speaker, Archie truly loved to participate in sports, whether as a player or coach. As a member of the Fairford Maroons, he will long be remembered for his home run hits. Archie was also a devout Christian, who loved to play the guitar and sing gospel songs. In his later years, this was a great joy to him and it was not surprising he was engaged on this path on the last day of his life, when he exchanged an earthly flight to a gospel revival in Bere ns River to ride the wings of angels instead to his just reward in heaven. We are all better off for having known him. May he rest in peace. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Brandon First Promotional Day Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon West): Mr. Speaker, I just simply want to say th at Brandon rocks, Brandon succeeds. When Brandon vo lunteers put their energy into promoting Brandon they succeed. The MLAs who attended the Brandon First promotional day at the Legislature recently were treated to a display of genuine community spirit. Volunteers dressed in Wheat King and Bobcat jerseys, displayed their Brandon pride and love for their hometown. These are the same people who just recently secured the Western Canadian Music Awards for Brandon and Manitoba.

Brandon First put together a strong bid to secure the rights to host the event, so strong that they were quickly the only city left in contention. This week, the Western Canadian Music Alliance announced that the three-day celebration of arts and culture would be coming back to Manitoba in 2009, which last played host to the WCMAs in Winnipeg in 2006. The star-studded event will roll out the red carpet across the streets of Brandon next fall as all the big names in music from across the Canadian west will pay a visit to the Wheat City.

A visit to Brandon during the WCMAs will showcase the talent of Manitoba performers with special emphasis on the host city's great musical

3726 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2008 prowess evident through its many world-class acts and quality university centre for music education, and, of course, awards will be handed out to the best and brightest of the bunch with both industry and artist awards up for grabs. Adding to the excitement is the momentum that this brings to the Brandon music scene providing an opportunity for artists to bring their act to the Wheat City for the first time and, hopefully, make plans to return many times after.

Thanks go out to Lois MacDonald, Erin Brown, Tom Crook, Heidi Howarth, Greg Gatlew [phonetic] and many others at Brandon First for their hard work in showing the world that Brandon really does rock. Police and Peace Officers' Memorial Service Ms. Marilyn Brick (St. Norbert): Mr. Speaker, on September 28, I had the privilege of attending the annual Manitoba Police and Peace Officers' memorial service at the Legislative grounds. The service is held to honour those brave men and women who have lost their lives serving Manitoba citizens.

It follows the 2006 proclamation announced by the honourable Minister of Justice that each year, the last Sunday in September be remembered as Police and Peace Officers' Memorial Day. The service was attended by hundreds, including many RCMP and police officers. The honour roll includes fallen officers dating back from the 19th century to the present. Among the many honoured were members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the former Northwest Mounted Police.

Federal corrections officers from Stony Mountain Penitentiary, a provincial corrections officer from Vaughan Detention Centre, members of the Manitoba Provincial Police, a town constable from Benito, Manitoba, Manitoba conservation officers, a member of the Winnipeg Park Police and members of the Winnipeg Police Service. Manitoba's service is in keeping with the Government of Canada's decision in 1998 to hold a national memorial day for police and peace officers. The memorial gives us the opportunity to express our gratitude to the fallen who are put in harm's way in fulfilment of their duty.

It's also an important reminder to Manitobans of the men and women who work to serve and protect in our province. This is also a time to remember our brothers and sisters in the military service. As we approach Remembrance Day next month, it is important that we as Manitobans pay our respect to those who gave their lives in service of our nation and those who currently work in defending our interests and values abroad. I would like to recognize Jawwad Saeed from the constituency of St. Norbert who has recently returned from Afghanistan. Mr. Saeed completed his tour of duty at the beginning of August.

I would like to congratulate him on his successful mission. Mr. Speaker, police an d peace officers around Manitoba, Canada and the world put the interests of others before their own every hour of every day. I would call on this House to remember the sacrifices those who have fallen have made and the sacrifices police and peace officers continue to make today. As today is the International Day for Non- Violence, I would ask all members of the House to join me in hoping that we can resolve conflicts in the future through the use of consensus and mediation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. GRIEVANCES Mr.

Speaker: The honourable Member for Pembina, on a grievance? Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Yes, on a grievance. It is regrettable that on e has to resort to these kinds of, I guess, opportunities but the time to put a grievance on record regarding the situation that’s taking place within one's own community. Today I want to talk about three areas. Of course, the basis for all of these is infrastructure needs that we have within the constituency of Pembina.

Again, at the outset, I want to indicate that where the government continues to pride themselves in the fact that their nominee program has been successful, we in the Pembina constituency have been the recipients of many, many people moving in–and we welcome them. But I do believe that the government does have a responsibility to meet the needs of these people as they come into our communities from other areas, from outside of the country. Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair So, Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to talk today about three areas. This will be of no surprise to anyone here.

The first one will be on the schools, the situation as we have it out there; the health care

October 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3727 within our community, and the other one, of course, is the infrastructure of highways. I will indicate to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I do want to start with the schools, and, again, this should be no surprise to anyone here, especially the Minister of Education (Mr. Bjornson) and the Premier (Mr. Doer). They have been warned for the last nine years that there is growth within the region, growth within the area.

I do want to indicate–I'm only going to go back to 2005–the growth that we have seen out there is exhibited in the numbers of students that we have, but it was previous to that as well that it started. But, in 2005, the growth rate of the students in Garden Valley School Division was 5.5 percent. At that time we had 33 portables and 825 students within those portables. Garden Valley Collegiate– I've been asking questions of the minister repeatedly and having the petitions brought forward as well; the information is there. In 2005, we had an enrolment at Garden Valley Collegiate of 940 students.

We had eight portables at that time and a 5.4 percent increase. In 2006, we had a growth in the student population of 5.2 percent, and in the GVC it was 6.3 percent. In '07 it was 5.8 percent. At the collegiate it was 8.4 percent. This year, incidentally– and I know that my petition does have these stats on it as well–but we have seen an increase in student enrolment of 8.7 percent and, at the high school, we have an 11.7 percent increase. * (14:40) At the high school, today, there are 15 portables.

As I've indicated time and time again, these students do not have the access that they need to even go to the bathrooms. So what we're finding is a number of students will either just simply not go to the bathroom and will wait till noon hour when they have a little bit of a break or, in fact, they're not coming to school. I've asked the Minister of Education and the Premier as to whether they feel this is the kind of education that they want to promote and that we all want to promote within the province of Manitoba. I would submit to you that the answer is no. We should not be promoting this.

We should be doing something about it. Now I know that in my discussions with the minister, he has said at times, we weren't really prepared for this growth. Well, I have just given you the stats here. If you go back five, six, seven years, this is not just something that has happened. We have seen the graph. We have seen the numbers. We have seen the percentage increases. These are out there. We know that this is taking place. We have been giving information regarding 2012, and, I believe, the stats for 2012– the prediction there are 4,961 students, an increase of 5.8 percent.

This is substantiated by the number of students that we have there and also, if you look back, the number of babies that are born each year at Boundary Trails, and just on that, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'll indicate to you that this year they 're expecting to have 1,000 babies born at Boundary Trails Health Centre. Let's just assume that only half of those will be coming to the Garden Valley School Division within four or five years; that's 500, and that is a dramatic growth and somehow we need to plan ahead and we need to be able to accommodate the needs of these students.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I know that I have said this time and time again, but the information is out there. We know the stats. We have the numbers. So we need to move aggressively in order to do something to accommodate those needs and the growth that we are experiencing there. Again, we are also projecting that there's going to be an increase of immigration during that time. The number that I have given you now regarding the births at Boundary Trails is specific to the people living within the area.

This does not look at the growth that we're going to be experiencing and seeing in the years to co me from the immigration that we have. So, again, while we applaud and while we welcome immigration, we need to be out there to look after the infrastructure needs. Mr. Speaker in the Chair The other area that I wanted to look at, just briefly, Mr. Speaker, is the whole area of health care. I know that I've been reading petitions on those as well. Tabor Home was built 57 years ago and Tabor Home was built as a light-level seniors housing complex.

Today it is a personal care home and the majority of the people there are bedridden. There is no sprinkler system. The doorways are too narrow to move residents in case of a fire or any other emergency that we have. So I have been asking the minister time and time again whether, in fact, there is accommodation being made to replace the Tabor Home in Morden. Just to substantiate the need that we have in order to

3728 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2008 accommodate the elderly people within our community right today, and again this is the wrong use of a facility, of a hospital, but right today, Boundary Trails Health Centre has 26 beds occupied by people who should be in a personal care home. If you look at an 80 bed hospital, you'd take that percentage, this is the wrong use of a hospital. You talk to any of the people working in that facility today and they would indi cate that there are other people who need to be able to use those facilities for other things, other than for personal care reasons.

But they have no place to go. Certainly, as a province, we need to be able to accommodate the elderly within our community. I think it's only right, it's only fair. I say to my mother, who is 93 years old, and she's in a personal care home right now, we're all aging at the same rate, some just had a head start. It's true. Some started earlier than others and this is pretty straightforward. So some day you and I are going to be needing a place that we can go to, a personal care home, and we need to be able to have facilities that will accommodate our needs.

So, again, I implore the government of the day to look at the infrastructure that we have out there. The last point I wanted to make was the infrastructure regarding highways. I would be remiss if I wouldn't indicate to you, Mr. Speaker, that, with the growth that we're experiencing in southern Manitoba, the four- laning of Highway 32 is imperative. It is a must. We have to do that. There's just so much traffic out there and again it's because of growth. This is something that has taken place.

The government continues to applaud the growth, and I will concur with that, but we need to put the resources out there so that these communities can continue to grow. In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I just want to indicate that we have some really, really big needs within the Pembina constitu ency. They are regarding schools, they are regarding health care, and they are regarding our highways. There are other needs but these are the ones that we need in order to be able to accommodate the people who are coming into our communities. With those few words, Mr. Speaker, thank you very much. Mr.

Speaker: The honourable Member for Lakeside, on a grievance? Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Yes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Lakeside, on a grievance. Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, this is a day that I want to put some things on the record in regard to the mismanagement of this government. I know the Member for Interlake (Mr. Nevakshonoff) tried to get up a little bit ago and ask a question in regard to flooding. We know the mismanagement on this file and the way it's been handled, in particular in the Interlake and Westlake areas.

I was up there just last Friday looking at a meeting with a number of producers. Once again, there's another meeting being called which I've been invited to up in that particular area, and I can tell you that there's significant hurt out there. You can't have a wait-and-see attitude. We need action from this government. They need action not only from the government, they need their MLA to be onside and not be playing politics with the issue at hand. We have a serious situation in not only, like I say, the Interlake area, but the Westlake area, and those people are hurting. They are selling off their herds.

In fact, unfortunately, one of our well-known producers, actually for th e Member for Interlake, Glen Nichol, the Co-op ag reporter, is selling off his herd. Unfortunately, we've seen more and more of this as a result of mismanagement, of misleadership on this particular issue, and we need a program that's going to be out there. I know the Member for Interlake talks about it's going to be countervail. Well, it's not going to be countervail, Mr. Speaker, because we know that the 1,400 producers that are going to be impacted by this is not going to be a countervail challenge.

We know that– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Eichler: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know the Member for Interlake's passionate about this issue as well, but he can get on the record just the same as I can. He can get up from his seat and certainly, get up and speak his mind. He has that opportunity. Whether we talk about countervail challenges, this is not going to be countervail challenge. It's 1,400 producers is what we're talking about. It's a situation where they need some type of leadership from this government.

If it was going to be countervail challenge, the freight assistance program would be challenged. You can't have one and not the other. It just makes good sense.

October 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3729 When we look at these programs, it can be very clear about where we want to go. It can be on a per- head basis, but also a top-up on those grain producers. When are we goin g to be able to try and help them also with their issues? A lot of combines have been brought in, the track combines in order to get some of the crop off so then they can determine what level of insurance they're going to be at, what they're going to need in order to be able to use for top-up on those particular acres that they can and cannot get off.

It's a significant issue; it's an issue which we are very passionate about. You know what? I'm going to stand here, fight for rural Manitoba, I'm going to stand here and fight for our farmers, and I'm going to continue to do so, whether or not the government likes it or not. That's my job. I'm going to take it very, very seriously, Mr. Speaker. Also, when we talk about mixed signals, with Bill 17 just recently being passed in this House, we knew it was going to pass. There are 36 on that side, 19 on this side, but now we're getting mixed signals from the government. The Minister of Agriculture (Ms.

Wowchuk) is finally speaking up and saying, oh, there may be something we can do for these producers. We'll look at anaerobic digesters. We'll maybe look at some other methods, but I'll tell you what. What you've already done is killed the industry. They have lost all hope, all hope in this government for any initiatives to be brought forward in a timely manner which would be based on science, and, quite frankly, Mr.

Speaker, those research dollars that we were wanting to get and put forward and have based on good science have now been thrown out the window. * (14:50) Yesterday, the minister announced $150,000 to the research station in Glenlea in regard to greenhouse gases put off by cattle. Well, I can tell you we need to do that research, but what we also need to do is listen to those researchers, listen to those scientists, so that we do have the best data, the best information which we can have at our disposal.

Quite frankly, when we look at the science on any particular issue, be it the hog moratorium or cattle, the crops, the run-off, the ALUS program. There are a significant numb er of issues that are very, very important that we have to deal with. So we on this side of the House are going to continue to lobby for those projects. We're going to continue to lobby for our farmers. We're going to continue to fight for them to make sure they have a sustainable income over the next year and for the generations to come, because we do know they're the best stewards of the land.

They're the ones that make the best leadership decisions, and they want to be there not only for their children but their great- grandchildren as well. Also, with regard to drainage, when we look at drainage, at the meeting in Eriksdale and the meeting in Eddystone, it was very clear about significant changes to the drainage program. We talked about DFO on one of our projects. Well, we checked on that. There's not been one application. Not one application has been sent in to DFO for approval by this government since January of this past year. Why is that, Mr. Speaker?

We have significant issues in regard to drainage across this province. I know the conservation districts is an issue that's been brought forward by this government, and I commend them.

But what you also have to do with this issue is attach significant dollars in order to make sure that these conservation districts will, in fact, be able to do the work they need to do in order to provide that adequate drainage, and with a plan it puts in place that is going be there that's going to be sustainable, because you can't just start draining in one area an d not have a backup plan so it's going to be able to go on down and into the lakes and the rivers of which we want to keep clean in a way that's also going to be able to be sustainable, because I know in my particular area, we have two lakes, the Shoal Lakes, and it's becoming our Devils Lake.

Quite frankly, we know that something has to be done there. In fact, I commend the mi nister and her staff for meeting with the R.M. of St. Laurent. Now, I understand they're part of this package that's been brought forward with looking at Shoal Lake. We need leadership from our government. We need leadership from us, as members of this Assembly, in order to ensure that, in fact, we do have those programs in place. Also, I want to talk in regard to the health care, in particular, not only in the city of Winnipeg, but also in rural Manitoba. Mr.

Speaker, I know this year, unfortunately, I had the experience of using our health-care system, and I can tell you in order to get in to have surgery was quite the ordeal. First of all, we were only seeing cancer patients and emergency service people because of the

3730 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2008 shortage of doctors, becaus e of the shortage of bed spaces, because of the shortage of nurses. We in rural Manitoba and here in the city of Winnipeg, it's a significant issue. We have to make sure that we not only keep the doctors that we train–in fact, I find it disturbing because one of my constituents came to Winnipeg, got her doctor degree. There were some 70 students that graduated. Mr. Speaker, she was one of those that never got picked to stay in Manitoba. She's moved to B.C., since she met Mr. Right out there. Unfortunately, she won't be back.

Her dream was to practise. Her dream was to practise right here in rural Manitoba, make her home here, stay here. She was educated here, subsidized by Canadian dollars, which is significant because we need to keep those people at home. We need to get more nurses in place. We also need to take some of the stress off. I know the doctors in my home town. Mr. Speaker, we're down to two and about a half–there's one that works part-time–which we have room for five.

Unfortunately, we haven't been able to fill those positions, and usually what it is is a stepping stone into Manitoba, then either on to Saskatchewan, Alberta or British Columbia. What we also see is the nurse overload. In fact, when I was in the health-care system this past summer, I know that a number of the nurses had to work double shifts in order to try and stay up with the need because of the shortage that was out there. We need to address those issues in a way that's going to be very meaningful. I see my light's flashing already. It's amazing how fast 10 minutes go, Mr.

Speaker, whenever you're talking about a grievance, something so important that we want to get on the record here. But, anyway, in regard to the CentrePort, it's an issue that our side of this House, our leader has been taking very seriously. We need to move quickly on this file. We got the bill passed yesterday, and I know it's going to have significant impact on us here, not only in the city, but in rural Manitoba.

So we want to ensure that the government and those people that are in that organization have the tools they need in order to make those decisions, in order to lobby the federal government and our counterparts throughout and ensure that we do get CentrePort here within the province of Manitoba. So, with that, I thank you for this time for my grievance, Mr. Speaker. House Business Hon. Dave Chomiak (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, just prior to orders of the day, can I just make a House announcement, and that is regarding the Public Accounts meeting previously announced for October 8.

I would like to announce that the meeting will begin at 7 p.m. and end at 9 p.m. Mr. Speaker: For Public Accounts for October 8, it will be at 7 p.m. and conclude at 9 p.m., for information of the House. Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if you could call in order please the following bills: for concurrence and third reading, private bills, Bill 300; followed by concurrence and third reading of Bill 32; followed by debate on concurrence and third reading for Bill 35; followed by concurrence and third reading on Bill 38. Mr.

Speaker: For the information of the House, we will deal this afternoon with concurrence and third reading of private Bill 300, and then we'll move on to concurrence and third reading of Bill 32. Then we'll resume debate on concurrence and third reading of Bill 35. Then we'll deal with concurrence and third reading of Bill 38. ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS CONCURRENCE AND THIRD READINGS- PRIVATE BILLS Bill 300–The Royal Lake of the Woods Yacht Club Incorporation Amendment Act Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by Member for Turtle Mountain (Mr.

Cullen), that Bill 300, The Royal Lake of the Woods Yacht Club Incorporation Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi constituant en corporation «The Royal Lake of the Woods Yacht Club », reported from the Standing Committee on Private Bills, be concurred in and be now read for a third time and passed. Motion presented. Mr. Speaker: Are there any speakers? Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Just to indicate that we support this legislation. Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question?

October 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3731 Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Is the House ready for the question? An Honourable Member: Question. Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is concurrence and third reading of Bill 300, The Royal Lake of the Woods Yacht Club Incorporation Amendment Act. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] CONCURRENCE AND THIRD READINGS Bill 32–The Personal Health Information Amendment Act Hon. Dave Chomiak (Government House Leader): I move, seconded by the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald), that Bill 32, The Personal Health Information Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les renseignements médicaux personnels, as amended, reported from the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development and subsequently amended, be concurred in and be now read for a third time and passed. Motion presented. * (15:00) Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I want to just put a few comments on the record, of course, about the importance of the amendments to The Personal Health Information Act. We know that there has been co-operation among all House members–most House members, I suppose I should say–and we're grateful for that.

We also know that there has been extraordinary consultation and community input to the improving of this bill, and it will help ensure that patients have more access, that their families have more access, that people who need greater access to spiritual care and, really, improved health care in general as a result of the work that's been done on this bill. We know individuals such as Mimi Raglan, Blake Taylor, Leslie Worthington, Charles Cruden, Alice Little and, indeed, a legion of others have brought their important voices to bear in improving patient safety in Manitoba.

The government of Manitoba is grateful for that, and we look forward to the unanimous support of these amendments and of this act. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I'd like to thank the Mini ster of Health and the members of the House for proceeding with this legislation and the Minister of Health, in particular, for bringing in an amendment which was, in fact, one that we had first proposed as a bill a number of years ago, to allow 24 access to medical records and including family members in this process. This is an important step forward.

As I've said, it's been one that we've been calling for for quite some time. When we brought a bill forward several times, the government resisted it, but I am very pleased that the government now has seen fit to follow in our lead and to support this measure. It's very important that we move to a situation where we have more open ability to share information about health care and that patients and family members can be much more a part of the decision-making process and be more knowledgeable.

It is only fitting in what some people call the information or knowledge age, that knowledge be provided quickly and promptly. I would say that this is an important step forward, and I'm very pleased that it's happening. I would say that, at the vigil which was last night for members, individuals who came forward to talk about concerns over patient safety, there was pleasure that this bill was going to be passed and that the point was made that, with the move toward more and more electronic radical records, it may even be possible at some point to move to a shorter period than 24 hours.

But 24 hours is, I think, a pretty good result for today and certainly means that we have made a very significant step forward. So we, the Liberal Party, certainly are strong supporters of this bill an d the measures that are within this bill. It will help to improve access, the ability to address needs which have been talked about in terms of support. Financial support for institutions are also, I think, a good measure. It's taken quite a while to get that through, but now that will be significant. All in all, Mr.

Speaker, we have good support for this bill, and we're glad that we achieved the amendment to give us a 24-hour access. Thank you. Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): I, too, rise on behalf of our caucus in support of this legislation. I would note that, when the original legislation came into place in 1997, it was supposed to have been looked at within five years of that. There was to

3732 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2008 have been a comprehensive review of the operation of the act that involved public representations and, within one year after the review was undertaken, it was also supposed to submit a report on the review to the Assembly. Now we are quite late in seeing all of this come to fruition, but, certainly, now that it is before us, we are certainly supportive of it and the changes that have been made.

What is, I suppose, somewhat disturbing is the time it's taken this government to actually move on this and the amount of angst it has created amongst a lot in the public. People that were out there fighting so very, very hard for their family members and feeling that they needed to be or wanted to be involved in being able to help their family members by, you know, having access to information and then using information to, in fact, be able to support their family member.

It is a bit upsetting that these family members had to jump through such hoops in order to be able to achieve what they needed to achieve for their loved ones. But, certainly, with this government, we have seen time and time again where not very many things are done in a very timely fashion. But, certainly, with this, we're glad to see it here before us today with third reading. I would note, and I had heard in doing some research on this, I think it's in France where patients are actually the owners of the charts, of their own charts.

That, in fact, is, you know, quite an intriguing concept where in Canada and Manitoba that certainly is not the case and there is such reluctance to share information with families. So, Mr. Speaker, I hope that this legislation will, indeed, do what it is intended to do. I suppose time is going to tell us whether or not that is the case. I do wish–I know there's been some reference to having an adjudicator, a privacy adjudicator. I don't think this Province has gone near far enough.

In fact, we're the only province not to have done it and put in a privacy commissioner even though this government has said again that they were going to do it and then never did it because that, in fact, is probably what would have more teeth than what the government has put in place. But I think it's again their intent to make it look like they're giving, you know, authority for people to access information. I'm not sure it's going to be as good as we really think. But saying all of that, I suppose we will have to just wait and see.

I just want to say that this legislation really has to pay tribute to some people who have, I think, stuck with this through the years and spoken up loudly on behalf of their family members and that is Mimi Raglan, Blake Taylor, Leslie Worthington and Chuck Cruden on behalf of seniors in Manitoba. I think they deserve full credit for never giving up, for their persistence in this because I don't think we would be here today without the effort that they have put into this. I think all Manitobans really and truly owe them a great debt of gratitude for doing this. So, with those few words, Mr.

Speaker, we're certainly prepared to see this bill passed. Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is concurrence and third reading of Bill 32, The Personal Health Information Amendment Act. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE AND THIRD READINGS Bill 35–The Statutes Correction and Minor Amendments Act, 2008 Mr.

Speaker: Okay, we will now move to resume debate on concurrence and third reading of Bill 35, The Statutes Correction and Minor Amendments Act, 2008, standing in the name of the honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet. What is the will of the–the honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet. Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): Yes, Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to put a few brief remarks on the record with respect to Bill 35 on behalf of my constituents and of course on behalf of our caucus.

When I looked at Bill 35 when it was introduced–and it was a little bit of a daunting bill–I think 52 pages long–making changes to 100 different statutes of the province of Manitoba. So the reality is, that it took some time to go through the bill itself because not only do you have to review what is happening within the bill itself, Bill 35, and go through each of the 52 pages to determine its effects on the province, but you also have to look through all of the bills that it, in fact, corrects and makes amendments to. * (15:10) So it was somewhat of a time-consuming process.

I think it was necessary because we've seen

October 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3733 in the past, particularly even in this session in terms of Bill 31, where we've seen that while the title of the bill was admirable in terms of privacy and typical legislation making changes that, hopefully, would benefit the province, we found, on its face, it sounded good, but the end result is when you dig right into the provisions of the bill itself, on Bill 31 in particular, we found that it was lacking in terms of helping protect the privacy and provide public information to Manitobans.

So I think it was important for me, then, to go through Bill 35 to determine its effects. I know when I went to a briefing, Mr. Speaker, on Bill 35, I was told by staff there that, in fact, it did deal with typographical errors, numbering and drafting errors. But, after having gone through the bill, I can say that, in fact, it does do that, and so I'm satisfied with the provisions of this legislation.

It's important, I think, for a critic to take time to look at any bill, whether it's short or whether it's long, such as this bill with 53 pages long, and changing or making minor amendments to, in fact, 100 pieces of legislation in the province. I think, it's important, because I recall, Mr. Speaker, about three years ago, when I was the Finance critic at that time, I know the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) introduced the BITSA bill, the bill that, right after the budget, is introduced so that it carries out the effects of the budget itself and makes changes. That, too, was a long bill.

I recall it was probably some 100 pages at the time, because there were many changes that were proposed in that budget itself in terms of taxation and so on, and in terms of increasing taxes through the back door at that time, in terms of fines, in terms of licences, and so on. So those types of things had to be in the BITSA bill at the time. It was a very long bill, and I recall going through it and taking several days, in fact, through that BITSA bill, because I was concerned that it would reflect what was done in the budget. What we found at that time, Mr.

Speaker, when I compared the budget itself to the BITSA bill three years ago, while it mirrored the budget in almost all respects, I found one small provision in there which indicated that the BITSA bill was, in fact, doubling the tariff that was applicable to estates at the time from the budget to the BITSA bill. I don't know, it could have been oversight. That's what the Minister of Finance told me the next day, and I'll accept his word. We're all honourable members here. I'll accept his word that, in fact, it was an oversight, that it was a misprint or a typographical error.

But they're the kinds of things that we have to look for in very complex and very long legislation. We have to make sure we compare, in this case, the BITSA bill, between the budget itself and the BITSA bill itself as well, to make sure that they're consistent. Had it been passed, Mr. Speaker, we actually would have seen a doubling of tariffs for estates in the Court of Queen's Bench. While we caught it, and I accept the Minister of Finance's explanation that it was a typographical error, and he did make an amendment at the time I recall.

So that amendment was made and, obviously, those kinds of things have to be looked at. So, when I saw Bill 35 being 52 pages long and ending 100 different pieces of legislation, even though I had gone to a bill briefing with staff and so on, I took the time to look at the 100 different pieces of legislation to compare what exactly this bill was doing. By and large, it was reflecting, Mr. Speaker, some new and different terms that are being used today versus when those pieces of legislation were initially passed.

As a result of that investigation and as a result of that research and work that I did, we're prepared to let the bill pass. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): I just want to say a few words on the record prior to passing of Bill 35. As the Member for Lac du Bonnet has pointed out, it is a bill that attempts to make a multitude of minor changes to a wide variety of pieces of legislation. In fact, if you go to the first couple of pages, it kind of gives you a sense of just how many amendments are actually being made, and to which acts.

I guess the only concern is that, when you see legislation of this nature, sometimes you get legislation that is, in fact, brought forward and, quite often, it's things that are hidden in the details, and the impact that it can have is actually fairly significant. I thought it was interesting in my just quick glance at the bill, because I really didn't have the opportunity to have a briefing on the bill–this is, in fact, my first chance to really go through it, believing it to be very minor in the sense of not really impacting the legislation or the law that's currently there.

I always find it somewhat of an interesting read. Sometimes you see legislation that makes it a little bit more politically correct. For example, it takes out the husband and wife and replaces now with things

3734 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2008 like spouses or common-law and things of that nature, or you see modifications, whether it might be a misprint or it's just a spelling mistake. We take the government at its word in terms of its intention to literally have to go through the legislation as it's proposed to us and do the crossover and the cross-check. It would be a fairly extensive job for any one or two individual researchers to be able to pull, take a look and literally go through each clause by clause, because it is a very thick document and it's affecting so many pieces of legislation.

Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I do believe that when governments tend to bring forward legislation of this nature–and it doesn't happen that often–there might be some value in terms of having a statement where the minister is formally–that goes beyond even a second reading–where the minister stands up and says, it's just housekeeping. One could define what is housekeeping to one might not be housekeeping to another.

I think that there should be some sort of a formal declaration that maybe–whether Legislative Counsel or the Auditor's office could come up with–a formal statement that the minister is obligated to provide to the House so that there is no attempt on government, intentional intent, to try to make a change or to sneak something through that would, in fact, have a significant impact.

I think that, as much as possible, it's better to have legislation separated so that there is a good solid opportunity for debate, and critics are afforded the opportunity to be able to address legislative changes in a more appropriate way. With those few words, I'm prepared to see the bill pass. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is concurrence and third reading of Bill 35, The Statutes Correction and Minor Amendments Act, 2008.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] House Business Hon. Dave Chomiak (Government House Leader): On House business, Mr. Speaker, I previously had called for the sitting of the PAC Committee to go from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m. I've been advised by the Co-chair that they would like the flexibility to possibly sit until 10 p.m. if necessary. So I'm amending my previous statement to indicate that the committee will sit till 9 p.m. unless the Chair and Co-chair decide otherwise. In which case, it should end by 10 p.m. Thank you. Mr.

Speaker: For the information of the House, the Public Accounts meeting for October 8, the scheduled meeting is from 7 to 9 but, if the committee agrees, they'll c ontinue the business till 10. That's for the information of the House. * (15:20) CONCURRENCE AND THIRD READINGS Bill 38–The Balanced Budget, Fiscal Management and Taxpayer Accountability Act Mr. Speaker: We will now move on to Bill 38, The Balanced Budget, Fiscal Management and Taxpayer Accountability Act. Hon. Dave Chomiak (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr.

Selinger), that Bill 38, The Balanced Budget, Fiscal Management and Taxpayer Accountability Act;

Loi sur l'équilibre budgétaire, la gestion financière et l'obligation de rendre compte aux contribuables, as amended and reported from the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs, be concurred in and be now read for a third time and passed. Motion presented. Mr. Speaker: Do we have any speakers? Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Well, Mr.

Speaker, it's quite something to have to get up in the House to speak to a bill that came 13 years after the most responsible bill in monetary policy in Manitoba's history was passed by the previous Progressive Conservative government on November 3 of 1995, a bill called The Balanced Budget, Debt Repayment and Taxpayer Accountability Act. Thirteen may not be an unlucky number for some, but it will be for Manitobans if the Bill 38 passes today or sometime this session or anytime in the future in Manitoba. The bill was brought in by the Member for St. Boniface (Mr.

Selinger) on April 30, 2008, and this will be, indeed, a dark day for Manitoba. I would suggest that it perhaps might be the beginning of a dark period of time in Manitoba, and that's not just reflecting on today's downturn in the markets and

October 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3735 what's happened here in North America and across the world with the refinancing of much of U.S. debt in the housing market in the United States that's taken place and, of course, our markets are down tremendously. This week's been very volatile–down 800 on Monday, up 400 on Tuesday, down some 40 or 50 yesterday and, of course, down some 600 just before question period started today. As the Member for Brandon West (Mr.

Borotsik) was pointing out in his comments and questions of the Minister of Finance in question period today, the government has in their replies obviously no consideration of a backup plan for what will happen to Manitoba's debt that is the highest that it's ever been in this province. They are bringing forth what they call The Balanced Budget, Fiscal Management and Taxpayer Accountability Act, Bill 38, and, if I could say so, this is the biggest oxymoron probably in Manitoba's history, to bring a bill in that's called the fiscal management and taxpayer accountability act. The fiscal management

part is what they've changed from a debt repayment part of the bill. This bill is not going to provide fiscal management for Manitobans in the future by the government, Mr. Speaker. Other than what it does is it allows the government to balance the books once ever y four years unless, of course, they have a weather or an impact from another level of government. I've spoken to this bill on second reading, and many of my colleagues have spoken to this bill on second reading. Mr. Speaker, we're extremely concerned about where the Manitoba government is taking Manitobans and leading Manitobans.

It's brought on because of the out-of-control spending of this government and the out-of-control management that this government has brought to the table in regard to fiscal issues and fiscal responsibility. I know that many of their backbenchers haven't had any input into these bills. I know, in fact, that the only ones that really had anything to do with this bill were the Premier (Mr. Doer) and the Minister of Finance (Mr.

Selinger) themselves as they brought this bill forward, snuck it into the House and made it available to try under the auspices of perhaps protecting themselves in power down the road at the expense of every man, woman and child in the province of Manitoba and future generations that will have to bear the repayment of the mistakes that this government is making as we speak, and future ones that will come about in the few years that they have left in their term before Manitobans throw them out and bring in a strong Progressive Conservative government in this province. Mr.

Speaker, the government today is faced with many decisions, and this bill certainly has been brought in with foresight of a downturn happening in our economy. I don't think they even thought that it would be of the nature that it has been in the last few weeks here, but the foresight in this is to allow them to skate and get off the hook, if you will. Instead of having to balance the operating budget of the government of Manitoba every year, they will only have to do it once every four. Our side of the House is certainly in favour of moving to the GAAP, the generally accepted accounting practices proces s, Mr.

Speaker, but the bill should have, as the Member for Brandon West spoke the other day about it as our Finance critic, should be more aptly named the

summary budget, instead of the name that they've given it because, of course, that's what it is. Mr. Speaker, the previous Filmon government brought in the bill that they did on November 3, 1995, The Balanced Budget, Debt Repayment and Taxpayer Accountability Act, because it forced the government to balance the books every year on an annual basis, or else ministers of the Crown were going to have to forfeit a portion of their salaries. This was the most respected, financial-budgeting- process bill of anywhere in North America at the time.

What we're seeing is the complete devolution of that today by a government that hasn't even been able to keep up with the intent of that bill at that time, Mr. Speaker. The intent was to have a 30-year plan to eliminate the debt in Manitoba. Of course, we all know that, two or three years ago, Alberta eliminated their debt. We know today, as we speak, that the new premier in Saskatchewan has paid down a third of the provincial debt in Saskatchewan with a $2.2-billion payment this fall as well.

That leaves Sask atchewan with about a $4.6-billion debt that, I understand from speaking to Premier Wall, will be paid off if things continue the way they are, in about two years. Of course, that may be impacted by the changes financially across North America today as well, but the intent is there, Mr. Speaker, just like the intent was 13 years ago. We would be almost halfway to eliminating the debt in Manitoba if the government

3736 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2008 had kept the intent of the bill that was brought in in 1995. Ms. Erin Selby, Acting Speaker, in the Chair Now the bill–the government can say that they have continued to make the payments and, under the repayment of debt, they have paid down the debt as they were expected to do and met the tolerances within the bill, Madam Acting Speaker.

But, of course, on the other side, they have completely thrown out the window any intent of keeping a balanced budget, because they have added almost a doubling of the operating debt of the Province of Manitoba since they've taken power in 1999. The debt has gone from somewhere in the neighbourhood of just over $6 billion to 11.8–just under 12 today. That is not what Manitobans expected when the government in 1999 said: We will continue to have balanced budgets; we will continue to control the debt; and we will fix health care in six months with $15 million.

Madam Acting Speaker, we know that debt in health care, that the cost today–the money going towards health care has gone from $2.1 billion to $4.1 billion; it's doubled. We know as well that the health-care system is absolutely brutal today in Manitoba with what we've seen in the last while, not only in the emergency rooms in Manitoba here, but certainly I am very aware of it as the impact of 18 rural emergency rooms are closed across Ma nitoba and not just for summer closures, Madam Acting Speaker. These are long-term closures in some cases.

Indications are that the community that I live in– Virden–will not receive doctors till at least February and no guarantees then, and Melita may be the same in regard to that, Madam Acting Speaker, although I understand that there may be some moves to look at the backup persons for the lab tech positions and some of those. * (15:30) Madam Acting Speaker, the government really wanted to have it both ways by moving to a four- year rolling budget. They wanted to be able to say that they could balance the budget and yet retain their traditional practice of overspending.

So that's what they've done, and that's why they brought this bill forward. This bill has been brought forward to try to lessen the impact of the impacts that the bill talks about. Those impacts were weather. Of course, I'll get to those in a moment; the second one in a moment. The first one, of course, is the refusal of the amendment that was brought forward by the Member for Brandon West (Mr. Bo rotsik) the other day to deal with an impact of weather in Manitoba. Of course, the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) didn't even pick up on that and there's a reason for that.

They don't want to be tied to the fact that just a weather problem might be in Manitoba because that does impact. Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair Of course, the weather situation that quite impacted the government and forced them into bringing a bill in in the early 2000s, was the fact that there wasn't enough rain or water that year to keep the level of Lake Winnipeg high enough for the government to continue to steal funds, if you will, or let's say, just take funds at least away from Manitoba Hydro, in the profits.

They passed a bill that allowed them to take three-quarters of the profits of Manitoba Hydro out of Manitoba Hydro for government spending three years in a row, for the next three years. They were able to take $150 million out of the $200-and-some-million surplus that came about in that first year of that bill. Fortunately for Manitoba taxpayers, there was less water going over the dam in the second year and of course, the exports fell somewhat of hydro, unfortunately. The government was tied to only being able take $53 million out of the some $75-million profits of Manitoba Hydro that year.

Of course, we all know that 2005 was a dry year. There was virtually no–I lived on the Souris River at the time, and there was no water coming down the Souris River. There was virtually no water coming down the Assiniboine River. The Red River was low. All the tributaries leading into Manitoba forced Lake Winnipeg to be down. There were no profits in Manitoba Hydro that year. Of course, the government then was forced to take zero profits or zero monies out of Manitoba Hydro at that time.

That meant that Manitoba Hydro was going to have to finance $203 million, which ended up costing, in the long-term payback, over $500 million for Manitobans to have to pay back in their future rates in hydro. The government cannot possibly, in any way, shape or form, consider that kind of action a fiscally strong and prudent means of running the government of Manitoba and I'll get to that in a minute. The situation with the second concern, of course, was the fact that there could be an impact from

October 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3737 another level of government. The first one was an impact from weather and, of course, I've outlined what can happen and did happen. The fact that they wanted this to be a weather impact anywhere in North America is because, of course, if there was an impact in other jurisdictions, like Ontario, you could end up in a circumstance where it may impact the Ontario economy or an impact in the Alberta economy. Of course, those two provinces are the two key providers of transf er payment funds across Canada.

Manitoba lives and dies by the amount of money that they get, this government, on transfer payments and equalization payments out of Ottawa. About 40 percent of the budget comes from the federal government in this province and that's a shame. It certainly makes Manitoba a have-not province and will continue to be for many years under this government because they have no fiscal responsibility in being able to provide a plan of paying down the debt and long term.

As we've seen in the markets today, those who are extremely heavily leveraged in the market are in dire straits today and we don't want Manitoba to be in that position and be that dependent on other jurisdictions in the future. I believe that's why the government wouldn't pass the amendment to have the weather problem only in Manitoba. It's because they are so heavily dependent on transfer payments, that if a weather item impacted other jurisdictions that forced the reduction of the ability of those provinces to gather funds and lowered the impact of transfer payments, Manitoba would suffer.

So they wanted to have the escape clauses that would allow them to not be responsible and simply go ahead with their spending largesse and habit that they have, and continue to put Manitoba further in debt, as I've pointed out, the levels of debt already in the province. You know, as I indicated, we will be the only prairie province with perhaps a debt left in a few years and there's no need for that, or there hasn't been, Madam Deputy Speaker, if we had stayed on the 30-year pattern that was set up by the previous Filmon government by bringing in the bill that they did in 1995.

You know, I just wanted to say, as well, that the second one as an impact from another level of government, well, the other level of government is tied into what I was just saying, the transfer payments, and it could only mean the federal government, Madam Deputy Speaker, because not very many other levels of government are going to impact the provincial government to the level that they wouldn't be able to survive and continue to operate.

The federal transfer payments is what I'm referring to and, of course, the impact from another level of government would be something if the government had actually tied a level of that. They wouldn't go for the percentages of spending, but the Member for Brandon West (Mr. Borotsik) had put into the amendment the other day–they defeated those as well. It would have been something even if the government had been honest and said that, well, if there's $1 less in transfer payments, we don't have to balance the books.

They could have said, well, you know, unless there's a variance of 5 percent, or maybe $100-million drop, or something to that effect. I mean, the Premier (Mr. Doer) has even indicated in this House that in the mid-'90s there was a $245-million drop in transfer payments to Manitoba in one year. He said that on a repeated number of times now in the House.

That $245 million was a fiscal straitjacket for the operations of this province in the mid-'90s, and a responsible government managed to get through that by still keeping up the spending on health care which we were spending the most in health care per capita anywhere in Canada right through the recession that took place in the mid-'90s. This government, now, with the largesse that they've had, huge transfer payments, huge increases in transfer payments–that even the Premier acknowledges–still can't balance the books in a responsible manner without doubling the debt of the province over the last nine years.

It's almost as bad as what Premier Pawley did from '84 to '88 when the debt of the province tripled, or quadrupled almost, from 1.4 billion to 5.2 in the years from '84 to '88. Some of the members are still here. Certainly, the Premier was in those days, Madam Deputy Speaker. So it's with great trepidation that I speak on this bill because it is such a bad bill. It's one of the worst bills, I believe, in Manitoba's history, and it will be proven to be that down the road. Of course, it's tied in with what I think are three of the worst bills in Manitoba's history.

As I've said before, Bill 37, the vote tax bill, and also Bill 17, a moratorium on business in a certain portion of Manitoba. Even the Business Council's reply to the Premier on that is certainly something, I hope, that the government takes into heed because the Business Council has chastised them greatly for making the moves they have, based on no science, as the community of Winnipeg and other jurisdictions have also chastised them for that as well, Madam Deputy Speaker.

3738 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2008 Madam Deputy Speaker, this is not at a time when the government is out of money. This is at a time when they have incr eased their revenues by increasing taxes to Manitobans in many, many areas. Let me just name a few of those. One of them, of course, we were talking about Manitoba Hydro a few minutes ago and its fiscal responsibility, that the government basically stole over $500 million out of it, forced onto the taxpayers of the province for their own spending habit.

Of course, we were right in the middle of the Crocus crisis that they hadn't revealed at that time, and so we don't know whether they used those funds to cover up some of the actions that took place in the Crocus Fund, or whatever. But we certainly know that they put a huge scare into the venture funds in this province and something that we now–present conditions–we'll have a tremendous problem getting the confidence of individuals back to put–or may have. I hope I'm wrong.

But I believe that these kinds of actions do not spell well for the future at a time when we are the only province in western Canada with a payroll tax. * (15:40) We're the only province that, you know, our neighbours–the government talks about the fact that the federal government was irresponsible in reducing the GST down to 5 percent at a time when the Province increased the PST on plumbing, electrical, electricians and building of homes.

You know, we always paid the PST on the materials, Madam Deputy Speaker, but the first thing the government did when they came into power was put the 7 percent tax and extend it onto all of the labour required to build those homes as well. So that's a huge concern. They just kind of sloughed that off, but it actually doubled the taxes that they collected in Manitoba on the industrial side or on the housing construction side of the industry, yet they were chastising the federal government for lowering tax. Our Saskatchewan neigh bours have reduced the PST to 5 percent.

My point is we need to be competitive with other jurisdictions. This bill allows the government to not be competitive in those areas and allow them to continue to cover up being fiscally prudent and fiscally responsi ble. It allows them to continue to dump more tax dollars onto future generations of Manitobans, to be paid down the road.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I only put this all on the table because, if those in the future don't believe any of what I've said here today, I just want to go back to some of the comments by some of the members of the government of the day in 1995, when the Premier himself said in regard to The Balanced Budget, Debt Repayment and Taxpayer Accountability Act that was passed on November 3, 1995, in Manitoba, when it became law, the Premier himself said, and I quote: "You have a silly balanced budget legislation that doesn't deal with people working." Madam Deputy Speaker, I don't know what he meant by that, but the quotes–"you have a silly balanced budget legislation"–that's what this Premier thinks of balanced budgets.

They've certainly tied his hand, he believes, too much; so he's going to open that up completely. It's just like he was against free trade. That's one of the major impetuses in Canadian history that has allowed us to pay down the debt of the country as much as it has today as well and certainly has allowed us to eliminate the deficit of the country as well. The present Deputy Premier (Ms. Wowchuk)– this is even more shocking–the present Deputy Premier, the Member for Swan River, said that, and I quote: "No government needs balanced budget legislation." Can't get much more clearer than that.

I don't know what planet she's on, but anybody that thinks that government can go on forever and ever and ever, without being responsible and doesn't need to have some kind of checks and balances in place in regard to balancing its books, is–well, you must have great socialist-leaning tendencies, if not even more harsh words for the kind of spending that you could have out there. That is a completely irresponsible quote from the Minister of Agriculture today, the comments that she made in 1995 in this House about balanced budget legislation, and it shows why the government is in the straits that they are today.

Of course, there were others. The member that was here until last year was Tim Sale and his quote was: "Balancing a budget every year cannot be defended on any economic grounds." Now that's just priceless, Madam Deputy Speaker. That's got to go down in history, that Tim Sale actually believed that. There are other quotes that I'm not going to take the time to go into today, but that shows you the background as to why the government has gutted the most fiscally responsible, balanced budget law in Canadian history, in North America, recognized across North America, to bring

October 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3739 in this one that they have put before the people of Manitoba today. It would be one thing if the government wanted to just bring in a bill t

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	39-2-79b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	39th 2nd hansardpdf 79b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	ebbf276745a0571d9a1d70121b6e584fe26bcdab

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