Manitoba Hansard — 25 October 2017 (Sitting 73, 41st Legislature, 2nd Session)

41-2-73

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session – Forty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXX No. 73 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, October 25, 2017 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-First Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP BINDLE, Kelly Thompson PC CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC CURRY, Nic Kildonan PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FLETCHER, Steven, Hon. Assiniboia Ind. FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Clifford Emerson PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake PC JOHNSTON, Scott St. James PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLASSEN, Judy Kewatinook Lib. LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Burrows Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MAYER, Colleen St.

Vital PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REYES, Jon St. Norbert PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples Ind. SCHULER, Ron, Hon. St. Paul PC SELINGER, Greg St. Boniface NDP SMITH, Andrew Southdale PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WHARTON, Jeff, Hon.

Gimli PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian, Hon. Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC YAKIMOSKI, Blair Transcona PC

3121 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, October 25, 2017 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Please be seated.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Madam Speaker: Are there any introduction of bills? Bill 233–The Nanjing Massacre Commemoration Day Act Ms. Flor Marcelino (Logan): I move, seconded by the member for St. Johns (Ms. Fontaine), that Bill 233, The Nanjing Massacre Commemoration Day Act, be now read a first time. Thank you. Motion presented. Ms. Marcel ino: I am pleased to rise in the House today to introduce, for a first reading, Bill 233, The Nanjing Massacre Commemoration Day Act.

This bill designated –designates December 13th as an annual day to remember and honour the victims of the Nanjing Massacr e, also known as the Rape of Nanking. This horrific act of wartime violence saw an estimated 300,000 Chinese civilians and soldiers murdered and some 20,000 women and children brutally raped. This day will be a time for Manitobans to express their commitment to the protection of human rights. I am pleased to present this bill to the House for its consideration. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Agreed? [Agreed] COMMITTEE REPORTS Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs Ninth Report Mrs. Sarah Guillemard (Chairperson): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the Ninth Report of the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs. Clerk (Ms. Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs presents the following– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Madam Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS presents the following as its Ninth Report.

Meetings Your Committee met on the following occasions in Room 254 of the Legislative Building: • October 23, 2017 • October 24, 2017 Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 24) – The Red Tape Reduction and Government Efficiency Act, 2017/Loi de 2017 sur la réduction du fardeau administratif et l'efficacité du gouvernement Committee Membership Committee M embership for the October 23, 2017 meeting: • Mr. A LLUM • HON. MR. EICHLER

3122 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 25, 2017 • HON. MR. FRIESEN • HON. MR. GERRARD • MR. GRAYDON • MRS. GUILLEMARD • MR. LINDSEY • MR. MARTIN • MR. REYES • MR. SWAN • MR. YAKIMOSKI Your Committee elected Mrs. Guillemard as the Chairperson at the October 23, 2017 meeting. Your Committee elected Mr. Martin as the Vice-Chairperson at the October 23, 2017 meeting. Committee Membership for the October 24, 2017 meeting: • M R. ALLUM • HON. MR. CULLEN • HON. MR. FRIESEN • HON. MR. GERRARD • MRS. GUILLEMARD (CHAIRPERSON) • MR. HELWER • MR. LINDSEY • MR. MARTIN (VICE-CHAIRPERSON) • MR. REYES • MRS.

SMITH (POINT DOUGLAS) • MR. SMITH (SOUTHDALE) Non-Committee Members Speaking on Record Non-Committee Members speaking on the record at the October 24, 2017 meeting: • Mr.

Kinew Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following fifty -four presentations on Bill (No. 24) – The Red Tape Reduction and Government Efficiency Act, 2017/Loi de 2017 sur la réduction du fardeau administratif et l'efficacité du gouvernement: October 23, 2017 meeting George Matheson, Manitoba Pork Council Peter Williams, Private Citizen Ralph Groening, Association of Manitoba Munici - palities Justin Jenner, Keystone Agricultural Producers Dennis Hodgkinson, DGH Engineering Ltd. Michael Stainton, Lake Winnipeg Foundation Scott Dick and Cliff Loewen (by leave), Agra- Gold Consulting Ltd.

Michelle Gawronsky, MGEU – Manitoba Government and General Employees Union Kevin Rebeck, Manitoba Federation of Labour Hugh Arklie, Private Citizen Janine Gibson, The Organic Food Council of Manitoba Grant Rigby, Private Citizen Jennifer Demare, Private Citizen Edward Stahl Jr., Private Citizen Jeroen Van Boekel, Private Citizen Arian DeBekker, The Independent Hog Farmers Coop Andrew Dickson, Private Citizen Jonathan Alward, Canadian Federation of Independent Business Eric Reder, Wilderness Committee Glen Koroluk, Free Range Worker Cooperative William Gould, Private Citizen David Nickarz, Private Citizen Mike Teillet, Private Citizen Derek Brewin, Private Citizen October 24, 2017 meeting Glen Gratton & Tricia Schmalenberg (by leave), Maple Leaf Industries Accalia Robertson, Private Citizen Sheldon Stott, Private Citizen Glenda Whiteman, Private Citizen Brittany Semeniuk, Winnipeg Humane Society Gaile Whelan-Enns, Private Citizen Margaret Rempel, Private Citizen Grand Chief Jerry Daniels, Southern Chiefs Organization Lyame Cypres, Private Citizen Johannes Soer, Private Citizen Mike Sutherland, Peguis First Nation Pita Hoyt, Private Citizen Weldon Newton, Private Citizen Vicki Burns, Private Citizen Ruth Pryzner, Private Citizen Kristin Lauhn-Jensen, Private Citizen Kelly Whelan-Enns, Private Citizen Louise May, Aurora Farm Kristaps Balodis, Private Citizen Marianne Cerilli, Private Citizen Kevin Toyne, Private Citizen Debbie Wall, Private Citizen Don Flaten, Private Citizen

October 25, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3123 Anne Lindsey, Private Citizen Michele Rogalsky, University of Manitoba Gord Delbridge, CUPE Local 500 Terry Egan, CUPE Manitoba James Beddome, Green Party of Manitoba Terry Wachniak, Private Citizen Dr. M.J. Willard, Private Citizen Written Submissions Your Committee received the following thirteen written submissions on Bill (No. 24) – The Red Tape Reduction and Government Efficiency Act, 2017/Loi de 2017 sur la réduction du fardeau administratif et l'efficacité du gouvernement: Lynn Murphy, Private Citizen Carl Epp, Parkland Tree Care Ltd.

Matt Vinet, International Society of Arboriculture Carla Antonation, Trilogy Tree Services Jesse Antonation, Arboriculture Canada Training Gerry Engel, Trees Winnipeg Harold Froese, Private Citizen Moe Feakes, Private Citizen Cory Rybuck, Manitoba Egg Farmers Ardythe Basham, Private Citizen Robert G Mears, Private Citizen Elizabeth Cameron, Private Citizen Molly McCracken, Private Citizen Bill Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 24) – The Red Tape Reduction and Government Efficiency Act, 2017/Loi de 2017 sur la réduction du fardeau administratif et l'efficacité du gouvernement Your Committee agreed to report this Bill, without amendment, on a counted vote of 6 Yeas, 4 Nays.

Mrs. Guillemard: Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Riding Mountain (Mr. Nesbitt), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. TABLING OF REPORTS Madam Speaker: I am pleased to table, in accordance with sections 14(4) and 28 of The Auditor General Act, the Auditor General's report on Managing Climate Change. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister for Sustainable Development, and I woul d indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with our rule 26(2).

Would the honourable minister please proceed with her statement. Climate Change Report– Auditor General's Findings Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sustainable Development): Earlier today, the office of the Auditor General released its report on the provincial government's lack of action and core management of climate change under the previous administration. The findings of the Auditor General's report are very alarming. The report indicates that despite a global focus on addressing climate change, Manitoba has seen little change in greenhouse gas emissions over the past decade.

Inaction and a lack of engagement on this issue have long- lasting and negative effects on our province. The Auditor General found significant gaps in managing climate change and in following targets the previous administration had imposed by legislation. Specifically, it criticiz ed that there was no pla n developed for actually adapting to climate change impacts. The previous government was aware by 2009 that its plan to reduce emissions would not work, and it failed to update it. The report highlights the importance for our government to act where prev ious leadership failed.

Our government will move forward with a made-in-Manitoba approach to addressing climate change that will produce meaningful –that will meaningfully reduce greenhouse gas emissions and improve the environmental health and sustainabili ty of our province for future generations. Our government's plan will be geared towards the environmental, economic and social realities of Manitoba, rather than just following a one-size-fits-all approach proposed by the federal government and members opposite. Our government will propose a comprehensive, realistic and workable climate and green plan with a bold new vision

3124 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 25, 2017 for a clean and green Manitoba. It will make Manitoba Canada's cleanest, greenest and most climate-resistant province. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): I want to thank the Auditor General and their office for the work that they do holding all parties in the House accountable for actions taken or not taken.

And, to take one of the minister's co mments and expand on it a bit, to actually have Manitoba's greenhouse gas emissions be more or less unchanged for a decade is an indication of the results this government achieved simply because, under the previous– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Altemeyer: –government, emissions were increasing by almost 200,000 tons per year. So Manitoba, under our leadership, was actually part of a global trend which was flattening the emissions of –greenhouse gas emissions. And now the next step– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Altemeyer: –quite clearly, is for those emissions to be reduced. And that did not occur by accident, Madam Speaker. That took a lot of hard work. A number of the things that our government did, which– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Altemeyer: –this government could certainly consider expanding upon, would be rapid expansion of the Power Smart program, which this government has now undermined and not repla ced with its new Efficiency Manitoba. We also required the City of Winnipeg to capture methane out of the landfill. We only had to do this because the mayor refused to do it.

And we also built the first two commercial wind farms in Manitoba. There's a large number of initiatives our government took and we look forward to holding this government accountable– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. * (13:40) Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I ask leave to speak to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to speak to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Madam Speaker, understanding and addressing climate change is important for Manitoba and important for our planet.

In spite of much rhetoric by the previous NDP government there was little progress as the plans that were put in place were hampered by inadequate analysis, lack of implementation details and weak progress monitoring. A climate change plan should be comprehensive, with targeted reductions in the three principal greenhouse gases: carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide. The latter two, largely from agriculture, were mostly forgotten by the previous government, and agricult ure makes up a third of Manitoba's greenhouse gasses.

It's to be hoped that the present government will be more knowledgeable when it comes to agriculture and will have a mo re robust effort in this area. What is striking to me is that in a year and a ha lf we've had little progress from this government. Instead, Madam Speaker, we're–hear this Premier (Mr. Pallister) fighting the federal government again. The environment is the water we drink, the land we live on and the air we breathe. The government needs to start taking responsibility for its lack of action and develop and implement an effective greenhouse gas reduction plan.

The Premier should stop pointing fingers at others. This was a plan he promised more than a year and a half ago. I say to the government: stop acting like the NDP; make a plan and deliver it. Madam Speaker: Order.

October 25, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3125 Mr. Mohinder Saran (The Maples): Madam Speaker, on a point of order. Point of Order Madam Speaker: On a point of order, the honourable member for The Maples. Mr. Saran: Madam Speaker, I am tabling documents I referred to during my member's statement on October 23rd, 2017. Madam Speaker: I would indicate to the member and–tell him that that is not a point of order. But we do appreciate his putting forward the tabling of some of his documents. Thank you. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Royal Canadian Legion Branch No. 215 Hon.

Cathy Cox (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): Madam Speaker, it 's an honour to welcome members of the Royal Canadian L egion Henderson Highway Branch No. 215 to the Legislature this afternoon. Remembrance Day is quickly approaching, and it's an occasion most people associate with the Royal Canadian Legion. Today, Madam Speaker, I want to highlight the year-round efforts of Branch No. 215 a nd its dedicated members , who tirelessly volunteer their time to support veterans in our community.

While Branch No. 215 hosts a number of events, such as the veterans' dinner and the fun-filled Canada Day celebration, what truly is remarkable is all of the Legion's volunteers and the extraordinary work that they quietly do behind the scenes, l ike the members of the Joint Hospital Visiting Committee, who ensure that veterans living in personal -care homes receive monthly visits. And while it's mostly about bringing a smile, the volunteers al ways show up each visit with a s pecial gift, like chocolates, to brighten the ir day.

Branch No. 215 also works hard to support critical medical research, and since 2009 the branch's poppy fund has contributed nearly $13,000 to the hip and knee research through the Concordia Joint Replacement Group. It 's truly a valuable gift that benefits our entire community and well beyond. These selfless volunteers aren 't looking for thanks or recognition, but, personally, I bel ieve they're heroes. We can't thank you enough for all you do.

You have dedicated your lives to protecting the freedom we enjoy in Canada and you continue to enrich the fabric of our communities through your tremendous volunteer efforts. Madam Speaker, I ask all members of the Legislature to join me today and giving their sincere appreciation to all of the legal–the Legion members for their hard work and dedicated service, not just leading up to Remembrance Day, but throughout the entire year. Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage. Mrs. Cox: I would ask for leave to have the names of the executive inserted into Hansard.

Madam Speaker: Is there leave to have those names inserted into Hansard? [Agreed] Royal Canadian Legion Henderson Highway Branch No. 215 Executive. Branch Executive Officers: President, Gord Machej (April); 1st Vice - President, Beverly Stem (Tim); 2nd V ice- President/Secretary, Lori Gagnon (Claude); Chairman, Ted Nimik (Sandy); Treasurer, Bodo Roloff (Anne Marie); Padre/Chaplin, Ted Nimik (Sandy); Sergeant -at-Arms, Alex Mills (Lois); Past President, Nicole Napoleone (Sal). Executive Committee Members, 2017 -2018: Claude Gagnon (Lori); Lionel Bjornson (Sherry); April Ma chej (Gord); Diane Tashe; Bob Morrison.

Executive Committee Members, 2016 -2017: Fred Wilson (Vera); Elmer Broschuk (Louella); Bob Neault; Andre Camara (Daphine). Ladies Auxiliary: President, Lori Gagnon; Kitchen Convener, Louella Broschuk; Co-Kitchen Convener, Vera Margerison. Westwood Collegiate Band Awards Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Families): I recently had the privilege of attending Westwood Collegiate's fall awards ceremony in Kirkfield Park constituency. At this ceremony I had the privilege to witness a large number of students be recognized for a variety of outstanding achievements.

One of the more noteworthy achievements celebrated at the awards

3126 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 25, 2017 ceremony was the success of Westwood band music program. Each year, Winnipeg attracts close to 170 bands to the Optimist International B and Festival, which is held at the end of February. Last year , Westwood Collegiate's grade 9 concert band, grade 10 concert band and grade 10 and 11 s ymphonic band all received perfect marks. In addition to all the Westwood Collegiate's jazz ensembles, the junior jazz, the intermediate jazz and senior jazz, all received invitations to compete at the nationals in Niagara Falls, Madam Speaker.

While at the nationals in Niagara Falls, the vocal jazz assembly won a very respective s ilver medal and student Carter Kennington was also recognized for the outstanding singing. Senior j azz was named one of the top j azz ensembles in the country and bass player Carter LaFleche also was recognized as a bass play er. In addition to all these important accomplishments, drummer Aidan Clarke was named as the overall top drummer of the festival and has received drum set from the Pearl Canada for his efforts.

These students are clearly –have worked extremely hard on their craf t, and I'm ecstatic too, that I was invited to the awards ceremony to share in the important day for them. I'd like to recognize all the students at Westwood Collegiate that were recognized in the band program and the individual awards on behalf of the constituents of Kirkfield Park. Thank you, Madam Speaker. West Lynn Heights Students' Questions for Government Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Recently I was given a list of questions from the grade 6, 7 class of the West Lynn Heights School in the community of Lynn Lake.

The students' questions shed a harsh light on the realities that that community is facing, and I'd like to table that list of questions now. One question asks, why can't we drink the water? Lynn Lake has been under a boil water advisory for many years. Health workers at the town's centre have reported serious health issues in children that they believe are related to the water. Lynn Lake needs safe drinking water systems so kids don't have to worry about drinking from the tap. Another question asks, can we please have mental health facilities?

Isolated communities like Lynn Lake have a steady rising rate of mental illness due to the absence of enough treatment beds, daytime services and a lack of a hopeful future. Cuts to clinics in The Pas and Thompson mean quality mental health care is even further out of reach for these children. Yet another question asks, why don't we have usable ball and soccer fields and recreation arenas? Northern families and youth need to have safe places to have fun and get active.

Many in Lynn Lake are working tirelessly to create a brighter future for their children and I commend those volunteers for the hope they're bringing to their community. Provincial government cannot ignore communities like Lynn Lake. Will the Premier (Mr. Pallister) help me write answers back to the students at West Lynn Heights that show a real commitment to their futures? He can take action so that kids can stop worrying what will happen to their families and go back to being kids. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Envol 91 FM–25th Anniversary Mr. Greg Selinger (St.

Boniface): Madame la présidente, cette semaine marque la fin des célébrations du 25 e anniversaire de la radio communautaire francophone du Manitoba, Envol 91 FM. Étant donné sa désignation comme première station de radio communautaire française dans l'Ouest canadien, c'est vraiment quelque chose à célébrer. La communauté francophone du Manitoba voulait instituer une station de radio communautaire pour refléter sa diversité culturelle. Grâce aux efforts de nombreuses personnes et organisations déterminées, la Radio communautaire du Manitoba fut créée.

Depuis le 21 octobre 1991, Envol di ffuse à plus de 90% des communautés francophones du Manitoba, et plus de 50 bénévoles aident à organiser et à produire la programmation d'Envol. Envol est la voix de la francophonie manitobaine, offrant une variété de genres musicaux. Aussi, Envol est une plateforme où les artistes francophones locaux sont célébrés. La programmation est toujours ciblée pour répondre aux besoins des 'auditateurs', et aide à développer un sens d'appartenance à la communauté.

Au cours de la dernière année, Envol a célébré son succès en diffusant de nombreuses émissions et événements spéciaux partout au Manitoba.

October 25, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3127 L'événement final d'Envol servant à terminer une année de célébration constituait une opportunité pour remercier et reconnaître les bénévoles pour leur contribution. Aujourd'hui, je tiens à féliciter Jonas Desrosiers, président de la radio, et Yaya Doumbia, directeur général de la radio, qui sont avec nous aujourd'hui, ainsi que tout autre membre du personnel et les bénévoles d'Envol 91 FM pour leur immense contribution. La francophonie en entier avons hâte de voir ce que les prochaines 25 années apporteront. Merci Madame.

Translation Madam Speaker, this week marks the end of the 25th anniversary celebrations for Manitoba’s Francophone community radio station, Envol 91.1 FM. Given its status as the first French-language community radio station in western Canada, it really is something to celebrate. Manitoba’s Francophone community wanted a community radio station that would reflect its cultural diversity. Thanks to the efforts of many determined individuals and organizations, the community radio station became a reality.

Envol 91.1 has been broadcast ing to over 90% of Manitoba’s Francophone communities since October 21, 1991, and over 50 volunteers help plan and produce its programming. It is the voice of Manitoba’s Francophonie, and offers a variety of musical genres. Envol is also a platform that celebrates local Francophone artists. Programming is always tailored to listeners’ preferences and to help cultivate a sense of belonging in the community. During the past year, Envol celebrated its success by broadcasting many programs and holding spe cial events throughout Manitoba.

Envol’s final event, capping a year of celebration, provided an opportunity to thank and acknowledge the volunteers for their contribution. I would like to congratulate Envol’s President, Jonas Desrosiers, and Executive Di rector, Yaya Doumbia, who are here with us today, as well as the staff and volunteers for their immense contribution. Manitoba’s Francophonie looks forward to seeing what the next 25 years will bring. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honoura ble–oh, the honourable member for St. Boniface. * (13:50) Mr.

Selinger: I seek leave to enter the names of all the people listed in the member's statement in the Hansard today, please. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to include those names in Hansard? [Agreed] Envol staff and volunteers: Jonas Desrosiers, président; Françoise Therrien Vrignon, v ice président; Yaya Doumbia, CEO; Diane Doney; Moutari Arouna; Joel Martine; Evelyne Lachapelle; Jean-Sébastien Coté -Paré; Renaud Doucet; Larbi Toumi Acknowledgements from Member for Assiniboia Hon.

Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I'd like to thank the people of Assiniboia for their tremendous amount of support over the last year and a half and, in particular, I want to thank the Premier (Mr. Pallister) for allowing me the opportunity to serve and represent the people of Assiniboia by allowing me to be a Conservative. Not only am I now facing the government, which, by the way, Madam Speaker, is a mu ch better -looking group, collectively, than looking the other way, but it does allow me the opportunity to be a Conservative.

We were elected on a platform based on conservative values, but that does not include creating a new Crown corporation, does not include creating red tape for Crown corporations like MPI, or the taxi industry, or creating unworkable and costly changes to the taxi industry. It does not include increasing the cost of home -heating gasses for the people in social housing in my riding. How am I going to explain to people in social housing where they're going to put their subsidized solar panels in their apartments? There is no way that that is good public policy for the people in economic need.

Finally, Madam Speaker, I do want to thank my caregivers who have provided great service and I'd like to thank everyone for bringing them into this Chamber. However, there are occasions– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. An Honourable Member: I ask for leave for the member to finish his statement. Madam Speaker: Oh, is there leave for the member to conclude his statement? [Agreed]

3128 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 25, 2017 The honourable member for Assiniboia, to quickly conclude his statement. Mr. Fletcher: Thank you, Madam Speaker. My caregivers are there to help, but they're not political aides. If there's frustration, I ask my colleagues and their guests please do not take it out on my caregivers. This has happened and it's not appropriate and it's wrong. They just don't need that. Take it out on me, please. I enjoy it. You guys are great fun to talk with and stuff, but my caregivers–please leave it out –leave them out of it.

But, thanks, Madam Speaker, and thank you to the people of Manitoba for the opportunity to be here. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral questions we have some guests in the gallery. Located to my left in the loge is the former MLA for St. Vital, Nancy Allan, and we welcome her back to the Legislature. And also se ated in the public gallery from Immanuel Christian School we have 38 grade 6 students under the direction of Jim Spoelstra, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Radisson (Mr. Teitsma).

On behalf of all members here, we welcome you all to the Manitoba Legislature. ORAL QUESTIONS Occupational and Physiotherapy Services Request to Rescind Outpatient Service Cuts Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): We heard loud and clear yesterday that the Premier is planning to make more cuts to the health-care system. We know that his plans for cuts hurt Manitoba families, and when they look to this House they seem to see a government that doesn't care. The WRHA has announced it will lay off nearly 30 outpatient physiotherapists to meet the government's demand for cuts.

Those health- care professionals serve some 3,000 Manitobans each year, which means that there could be up to 10,000 visits lost as a result of these cuts. Now, the Premier's order to cut costs may save money today, but we know that it will cost us more in the long term with repeat hospitalizations, potentially even repeat surgeries. Will the Premier rescind his decision to cut physiotherapy and occupational therapy outpatient services? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, half a billion dollars of additional investment in health care, Madam Speaker, could hardly accurately be described as a cut.

It is a record investment in health care for the benefit of Manitobans, and a focused investment that was never focused under the previous administration. But I would assure the member that, if he were to consult with experts that we trust to give us advice–in fact, the previous administration under t he NDP trusted them to give them advice, too–if he chose to listen to them and to objectively ascertain their qualifications and the recommendations they make, he might change his mind. Here's a quote from Dr.

David Peachey: a failure to change will diminish the overall impact of the clinical and preventative services planning and impair the ability to meet patient needs in Manitoba. Change is necessary; it's difficult, Madam Speaker. I know the member is trying to change himself. He needs to also change his attitude in terms of accepting the need to fix the system of health care in our province. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Kinew: The question was about physiotherapy, and what the experts tell us is that after knee surgery patients need physiotherapy in order to be able to complete their recovery. If not, they risk reinjury. If they're reinjured, that impacts their quality of life in a very, very severe way, but it also places a greater burden on our health-care system if they need to visit the emergency room again. We just need to remind the Premier that delivering care at someone's home is much more effective, and also cost effici ent, than delivering care in the emergency room. So this is the crux of the matter, here.

The reason we're pursuing this route is because the Premier has ordered over $100 million in cuts. So what more impacts will we see across the health -care system? What more hospitalizations and repeat surgeries will be required? What evidence does this Premier have that compares the impact of the cuts to physiotherapy to the impact of repeat hospitalizations for those affected?

October 25, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3129 Mr. Pallister: Well, the evidence woul d be in the research, Madam Speaker, commissioned by the previous administration, but ignored. A lack of courage to act on recommendations from qualified people, Manitobans included, caused the situation to worsen, caused the system to become broken. The member speaks about compassion but fails to recognize that having the longest emergency -care waits in the country of Canada is hardly a demonstration of compassion. Mismanagement under the previous administration hurt people. It hurt people badly across t his province.

It created fear, it created doubt, it created pain. Madam Speaker, we will heal that pain by listening to the experts. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: We know that it is the Premier who is causing pain for those who depend on our health-care system. We've established in this House that it is the Premier sitting at the Cabinet table who sets the directive for the cuts that are being made to the health -care services that Manitoba families rely on.

You know, he's decided that families and patients who don't have health insurance are going to have to scale back on, you know, the other areas of life that they enjoy because they will have to shoulder that burden themselves. That's the situation that this Premier is forcing on Manitobans, and yet when they look to this Chamber, they seem to see a government that doesn't care. Now, the Premier may not like the terrible choice that he is forcing on Manitobans, but he also has a choice: he can put care first.

Will he reverse these cuts and ensure physiotherapy and occupational outpatient services remain publicly funded? * (14:00) Mr. Pallister: Although the member opposite will not take responsibility nor accept responsibility for his administration's breaking of the system, Madam Speaker, we do accept the responsibility of fixing the system. We will do that.

And, Madam Speaker, he speaks of care but fails to recognize the pain that has been caused by the pure mismanagement of the previous administration: wait times for hip replacements, eighth of 10 in the country; knee replacement, eighth of 10; cataract surgery, 10th of 10; emergency wait times, dead last. Madam Speaker, the system they broke will be fixed by this government. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Affordable Post-Secondary Education Need for Financial Supports for Students Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): On a new question, an affordable education is key to success in life, but there are too many young people who face barriers to accessing education in our province. And, unfortunately, this Premier's actions are making it harder and harder for those young people to get ahead, start a family and put down roots in our province. Instead of helping them, he's cut the tuition tax rebate for students and recent grads. That's a $50-million hit to youth. Now he is raising tuition fees by up to 7 per cent a year.

T hat's potentially thousands of dollars more for a young person to receive a post-secondary education. Now, the Premier should know that cutting education hurts our youth and threatens the long-term economic health of our province. Will he stop the cuts to our education system? Will he choose to invest in post- secondary education in Manitoba? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Of course we are. And the member fails to recognize that we are investing over $400 million more in this year alone in education than the NDP government previously ever did.

But, Madam Speaker, we're not just concerned with spending more, as the previous administration seemed to be. We are focused on getting better results. We're also focused on making sure that the barriers to entry for post -secondary study are reduced, not raised, as they were under the previous administration. We're also concerned with making sure that the scholarship and bursary funding available to those who need assistance, such as I did, Madam Speaker, when I came from a modest family background and was able to attend university–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

3130 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 25, 2017 Mr. Pallister: –and continue my studies thanks to the generosity of government programs, in part. I–Madam Speaker, I want to assure the member that we care deeply about making sure those barriers, which they raised in their administration's time in office, are reduced under our time in office. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: The biggest barrier to education, for many, is tuition, which this Premier is raising.

He also froze operating grants to every post -secondary– except for those whose operating grants that he cut. What's more, beyond impacting all the students in Winnipeg, Brandon, Thompson and St. Boniface, we know, because of what these government documents reveal, that the Premier's program for scholarships and bursaries has only raised $1.8 million to the end of September. That's $1.8 million in the past six months. That's the government's own number. I would table these documents so the Premier could review them.

Now, the Premier's claims that $20 million will be available for students in scholarships and bursaries this year is spin. One point eight million– those are the facts, Madam Speaker. Will the Premier admit that he needs to have more supports for students and not less? Mr. Pallister: Well, not only will I admit that, Madam Speaker, but I will commit to that, and we are doing that as a government.

The membe r fails to acknowledge, as he too frequently does, Madam Speaker, the failure of the previous administration to provide opportunities for needy young people: the reduced rates of graduation, for example, for young indigenous students in our post-secondary institutions; the increased challenges posed for students and their families of additional taxes put on them. Tuition is one factor, but there are many others, Madam Speaker.

In particular for rural and northern youth who have to travel, that is a barrier as well, and certainly the costs imposed on families across the province by the previous administration in terms of additional taxes on home insurance and on benefits for their–the parents of students at work are barriers that were real, and the member needs to acknowledge them. Anyone with compassion would acknowledge that the financial barriers placed in front of students are certainly largely the responsibility of the previous administration's high-tax policies, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The honour able Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: The Premier is failing to meet the benchmarks that he has set for himself. The metric that he set out was $20 million; they're only at $1.8 million. You do the math with the matching funds, that gets you to 2.7, but 13.5 per cent of your way towards your goal–that's a failing grade, Madam Speaker. Time is running short, and affordable education is too important to have to wait years for this Premier to get his act together.

Will the Premier commit today to making post-secondary education more affordable for students and families by committing more resources directly to help them get their educations? Mr. Pallister: I can only hope, Madam Speaker, that our high school gradua tes' performance in mathematics can improve, and certainly the member's miscalculations in his numbers demonstrate that his math skills need to improve as well. The reality is that we are committing to reduce the barriers for needy students for post -secondary education.

This is critically important to me, not coming from a silver -spoon background myself, Madam Speaker. I have had the opportunity to work my way through school–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –I've had–like many in this Chamber, I've had the opportunity to work my way through a post-secondary degree with the help of some assistance from bursary and scholarship. I've always been thankful for that.

I thank the Manitoba Teachers' Society, in fact, for one of those very important scholarships at a critical time in my life, and I want to make sure that students in our province have those barriers reduced, that they are not raised as they were during the time of the previous NDP government. Affordable Post-Secondary Education Need for Financial Supports for Students Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): With Bill 30 coming to committee tonight, we know that the Pallister government is dead set on raising the cost of tuition for students by thousands, and yet we've just learned

October 25, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3131 that they aren't even close to meeting their own targets, let alone meeting the real need for students and their financial supports that they need. Students are worried. The tuition is set to go up, and the government is taking away supports, yet the only action that we've seen from this government has been an ad campaign designed to sell these cuts to students, all the while knowing that the money will fall short of what is needed. Why is this minister failing to properly support Manitoba students and parents? Hon.

Ian Wishart (Minister of Education and Training): Our government is very pleased to be working with private industry and post -secondary institutions to put in place a scholarship and bursary initiative that is sustainable and that increases the amount of money that is available to students in Manitoba. You're looking at numbers that come out in the middle of a fiscal year. Really, that's really not appropriate economy as to how money is managed, but I can understand that, coming from the NDP. They simply don't understand economics. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

The honourable member for Concordia, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wiebe: Additional government documents obtained through freedom of information reveal that the Pallister government is in fact spending tens of thousands of dollars on an advertising campaign to try to persuade Manitoba students that higher tuition wouldn't be a ba rrier for them, and I'll table those now.

And worst of all, Madam Speaker, what these documents reveal is that the funding for this spin came directly out of the operating budget for Manitoba Student Aid –in other words, money that should be going directly to students to pay for their tuition. Madam Speaker, why is this government spending Student Aid dollars on political spin rather than on students? Mr. Wishart: I thank the member for his question. I guess he doesn't want the students to know about the additional funding through Manitoba Scholarship and Bursary Initiative.

I assume, then, he is not really worried about those students being well informed and having access to additional funds that are available through that program. Awareness of a program is an absolute necessity for a program to be successful and to help those very same students. That's what we're doing. * (14:10) Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a final supplementary. Mr. Wiebe: Madam Speaker, students won't be fooled by the spin. They know that a tone -deaf government ad campaign doesn't help pay their tuition bill. It doesn't buy a book for school.

They can see that this government is wasting tens of thousands of dollars of Student Aid money on a desperate attempt to cover up a tuition hike that nobody–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Wiebe: –voted for. That's real money, Madam Speaker, that should be going to students, not for social media ad blitzes. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Wiebe: With tuition and fees set to go up, interest on student loans rising, student debt going up, with Student Aid falling short, Madam Speaker, will the government just stop taking money from students and actua lly commit to keeping tuition affordable in this province? Mr. Wishart : Our government is definitely committed to a long- term, sustainable post-secondary education program in this province.

We're very pleased to participate not only in scholarship and bur sary initiatives that have been expanded well beyond anything the previous government ever dreamed of, but we're also pleased– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Wishart: –to be part of a colleges review that they, frankly, never got around to and should have done 10 years ago, so Manitoba students were suffering from their lack of attention in post-secondary. Mental Health Services Future of Treatment Options Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): Mental health services are vital to the well-being of our communities.

The Health Minister has hand -picked a consultant, Dr. Brian Rush, to report on Manitoba's

3132 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 25, 2017 mental health services. We've learned that Dr. Rush has a history of recommending fewer services and less support for people living with mental illness. He did so in Ontario, and a similar report in Nova Scotia recommended the government close long- term-care beds and even a treatment centre for people living with severe mental illness. He also recommended closing three detox units. Why did the minister hire a consultant with a track record of recommending the closure of the very services that Manitobans need? Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living): We certainly know that there is a need for additional m ental health services. We've made that expression clear to the federal government. The member for Minto never stood up with us when we were speaking to the federal 'givimabout'–government about having more support for mental health and a number of other di fferent areas, Madam Speaker. We have a consultant out in the field to bring together the mental health and the addiction side of the department. That hadn't happen before. We know there's a correlation between the two.

We look forward to his report. We look forward to hearing the recommendations and looking to how we can better the system that didn't get better under 15 years of the former government, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a supplementary question. Mr. Swan: Carol Ward, the mother of a woman who passed away from a drug overdose, believes more long-term residential beds would've saved her daughter Lisa's life.

Tara Brousseau Snider, executive director of Mood Disorders Association of Manitoba, says while day programs can be part of the solution they cannot replace residential programs that care for the chronically ill. We've already seen that this minister and this Premier (Mr. Pallister) favour cuts over care. Why did the minister hire someone to tell him to cut long-term mental health and addictions beds? Mr.

Goertzen : Madam Speaker, I'll give the member opposite credit for one thing: he is correct that under the former government there did grow a great deficit in the number of facilities that we have, whether it's, of course, day programs or residential programs. That happened over many, many years under the former government. In fact, we know that they were spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to send people out of province to get treatment in re sidential facilities.

That's why we're working to repurpose those dollars so they'll be back here in Manitoba and increase – increase–the options that people have in Manitoba for residential care, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a final supplementary. Mr. Swan: Well, Madam Speaker, this minister hired the wrong consultant for this job. His Nova Scotia recommendations have many in that province concerned. A member of the Legislature there, John Lohr, had a dire warning for M anitobans to not accept the loss of in -patient services.

And that member called the conclusions a cost -saving measure that ignored valuable treatment options. Mr. Lohr is a Progressive Conservative MLA in Nova Scotia, Madam Speaker. Manitobans are suff ering from the first wave of health cuts by this minister. They're angry and they're concerned. They're waiting for some sign this government's concerned about anything other than the bottom line. Will the minister today commit to expanding, and not reducing, the number of treatment beds for Manitobans living with a mental illness? Mr.

Goertzen : Madam Speaker, the member opposite, when he was the minister responsible for Manitoba Public Insurance, had a long history of hiring consultants. In fact, I remember he hired Marilyn McLaren as a consultant for Manitoba Public Insurance after she had left the corporation. We had a very interesting committee one evening, Madam Speaker, where I quizzed the minister and I quizzed those who were at the committee a nd asked what exactly is Marilyn McLaren getting for the consulting that she did, the $50,000.

Finally, the minister –the former minister had to admit that she never –that he never actually expected her to do any work. He hired a consultant to do absolutely no work. We're not doing that. We're going to better the system, Madam Speaker.

October 25, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3133 Elections Amendment Act Changes to Voter ID Law Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Tonight we get to hear from Manitobans how the minister's sweeping changes to The Elections Amendment Act will make it harder for them to exercise their democratic rights. Bill 27 entrenches regressive laws on voter identification, effectively cutting off Manitoba's most vulnerable citizens from the voting process. Low income, newcomers, persons with disabilities and some indigenous families will see their rights eliminated with the stroke of the minister's pen.

These committees may get their last inter action with the democratic process at committee tonight. Will the minister reverse the Premier's (Mr. Pallister) plan now, before it's too late? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Well, I want to thank the member for th e question, and certainly I look forward to hearing from Manitobans this evening at committee and hearing their views and what they think about this legislation. But what this legislation does is bring us up to speed with the rest of Canada and in–when i t comes to voting. And–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs.

Stefanson: –we think it's the right way to go. And that's why we are introducing this. And that's – we look forward to the passage of the bill after listening to those at committee tonight. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. Ms. Fontaine: The Premier claims that this policy is born out of widespread voter fraud in Manitoba, but there is no evidence to support this. Manitobans' current electoral s ystem works well, and there have been steps made to–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Fontaine: –improve voting processes.

A democratic electoral system like Manitoba's should prioritize increasing access to voters rather than disenfranchising citizens, especially those that already face a myriad of obstacles for voting. Will the minister admit her Premier's policy is backwards and completely out -of-touch approach to Manitoba's democracy? Mrs. Stefanson: In fact, this will be very good for Manitobans. We know in other provinces it's increased with –by introducing a voter registry it's increased the number of people on the eligible voter list significantly from 75 per cent to 93 per cent –or 97 per cent in BC.

So we believe this is a good thing. This is a great way to get more Manitobans to vote. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary. Ms. Fontaine: That's, of course, if you don't miss them. So the Premier is lifting straight out of the Republican Party playbook with this regressive and exclusionary policy. By manufacturing a voter fraud crisis that doesn't actually exist, it makes it harder to hear the voices of marginalized groups. What does exist, however, is a sad history of attempts at election rigging by the Premier's own party.

Does the minister think Manitoba really needs these regressive, American-voting-style policies, and will she withdraw legislation today? * (14:20) Mrs. Stefanson : Certainly, the Chief Electoral Officer has asked for these reforms for many, many years. Members opposite refused to listen to the Chief Electoral Officer; they refuse d to listen to Manitobans. We know that other provinces has gone there. We're one of the last jurisdictions in Canada to implement this. This is the right thing to do. It will provide more access for more Manitobans to vote, and that is a good thing for Manitobans.

Local Vehicles for Hire Act Impact on Taxi Industry Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Yesterday, at committee on Bill 30, The Local Vehicles for Hire Act, we had some incredible people who came out and they all spoke strongly against the bill. Those who came out had fantastic questions. Unfortunately, they weren't answered. So allow me to ask here: Madam Speaker, if this government truly felt that Bill 30 was a good idea, then why would there be a clause that specifically takes away the rights of Manitobans to challenge the bill? Thank you.

3134 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 25, 2017 Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Municipal Relations): And I'd like to thank the member opposite for the question. I'd also like to thank the over 80- plus Manitobans that came out for the last two evenings, providing their input and ideas, Madam Speaker, in committee–truly an example of democracy in action. Madam Speaker, unlike members opposite, including the Liberals, our government continues to consult with Manitobans and we are looking forward to the other hearings coming up within the next two days. I ask members opposite: do the right thing.

Get on board. Make Manitoba the most improved province in Canada. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows, on a supplementary question. Ms. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I am proud of our province because of our diversity. I am proud that people from all over the world choose to move to Canada with the hopes of building a life here for themselves and their families. Yesterday, a first -year university student shared his family's story with us.

He explained how if Bill 30 is passed, not only will his father lose his job, but there will not be food to feed his family and he would likely be forced to drop out of school. Madam Speaker, this is shameful. How can this government justify putting families at risk? Mr. Wharton : Madam Speaker, I'd like to table a letter from the Winnipeg Airports Authority, and I'd like to quote: Today's current system is failing to meet the needs of our customers. As Manitobans' largest taxi stand, far too often we see lineups for people waiting for taxis when they land in Winnipeg.

For many people, this is the first time and the first impression of our city. While it is understandable, Madam Speaker, that minor waits can be expected in severe weather conditions, there is no reason passengers should wait on the curb. Madam Speaker, that was signed by the CEO, Barry Rempel, Winnipeg Airports Authority. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows, on a final supplementary. Ms. Lamoureux: Many at committee last night expressed the concern of the safety of Manitobans if Bill 30 is passed.

This fear is so real that we had people in committee last night tearing up from the stories that were being shared with us. Currently, taxicab safety standards include shields, panic buttons, strobe lights, police criminal record checks, and cameras that are only accessible by the police. Would the minister make sure that ride -sharing companies would have to meet the same security standards as taxicabs in order to keep Manitobans safe? Mr. Wharton : And, again, I'd like to thank the member opposite for the question. The NDP commissioned–or spent $100,000 to hire Meyers Norris Penny and bring a report forward.

The report recommended significant modernization to the industry and asked the province to consider whether these decisions w ould better serve Winnipeggers at the local level, Madam Speaker. The NDP commissioned this report, recognizing the need for change in the regulatory framework, Madam Speaker, and this is something that we agree on. Fear mongering is going to be done by this party opposite. We are going to do the right thing for Manitobans. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Estate Tax Proposal Government Position Mr.

James Teitsma (Radisson): The NDP leader, with his first major policy proposal, has suggested introducing a death tax. This takes us back 40 years, a policy that was relegated to the dustbin by both the federal and provincial governments back in 1970 –in the 1970s, rather, when I was just a toddler. The NDP want to take our –Manitoba and our economy backwards with higher taxes and with crushing regulations. Can the Minister of Finance outline for us why this NDP death tax is a bad idea and what this government is going to do to help keep taxes low, grow the economy and create jobs? Hon.

Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance): I thank the member for Radisson for the question. It was just weeks ago when the Leader of the Opposition stood and said it's interesting what the federal government is leaving out –no changes to

October 25, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3135 estate taxes, where wealth is handed down from one generation to the next. Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition's proposed death tax would be a punishing tax on all Manitoba families, takes money out of the pockets of Manitobans just because one of their –a spouse or relative has passed away, and it couldn't come at a worse time, on the heels of the federal Liberal proposed changes to small corporations' tax. These are backward ideas, and they show a fundamental lack of understanding for how our economy works.

Our government will stand up for lower taxes. Our government will stand up for Manitoba families. We have indexed the tax brackets; we have raised the basic personal exemption and we're just getting started. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Inuit Art Centre Funding Intention Mr. Ted Marcelino (Tyndall Park): Madam Speaker, on October the 11th, I asked the Minister for Sport, Culture and Heritage about funding for the Inuit Art Centre. We learned a lot from her answers about the truly wonderful Canada Summer Games, but nothing about the Inuit Art Centre.

Can the minister please tell the House if her government is going to contribute its fair share to fund the Inuit centre? Hon. Cathy Cox (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): I would like to thank the member opposite for that important question. Our government has displayed a very important commitment to indigenous art and Inuit art as well, and as a matter of fact, we fund 39 per cent of the funding to the Winnipeg Art Gallery, so that's quite significant.

And I would just also like to invite the membe r opposite and all members in the Chamber, actually, to take in the INSURGENCE/RESURGENCE exhibition that they are currently hosting at the Winnipeg Art Gallery, one of the largest exhibitions of that art in all of Canada, so I really encourage him to do that. What's also most interesting is the fact that the two curators are very brilliant indigenous women– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. [interjection] Order. The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Marcelin o: The transition binder, that was provided to the new Minister for Sport, Culture and Heritage, that we obtained through FIPPA –the government said that they have a decision about the building of the Inuit Art Centre before the end of August. So do I get i t that they are funding their fair share for the Inuit Art Centre or not? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Cox: Thanks again to the member opposite.

I would just like to say that we've actually met with Stephen Borys from the Winnipeg Art Galle ry and had very good, fulsome discussions with him with regard to funding and moving forward and sustainability, all of those very important things. * (14:30) But I'd also like to let the member opposite know that we do provide $67 million of funding in grants and tax credits towards the arts, the cultural and the film and music industry –very significant–you know, which is in contrast to the members opposite, who actually cut $4 million in 2014 from the film and music industry tax credit, which is such a booming industry, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary. Mr. Marcelino: On a totally different track now, last night, during the committee hearings of Bill 30, which is the vehicle for hire act, there were some horrendous scenes that we saw– Madam Speaker: Order, please. Is the member rising on a new question? Because supplementary questions are to be stated according to the initial topic that he raised. If he's now standing on a totally different topic, then he is moving on to a brand new question.

So can the member clarify for me, is this a final supplementary question or a brand new question? Mr. Marcelino: It's a brand new question, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: On a new question– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

3136 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 25, 2017 Madam Speaker: Order. Order. The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a new question. Local Vehicles for Hire Act Request to Withdraw Bill Mr. Ted Marcelino (Tyndall Park): The honourable Minister for Sport, Culture and Heritage (Mrs. Cox) also shed some tears regarding the presentation of a family who lost their dad, who was a taxi driver. And a taxi driver –now– the taxi drivers are now being hired by their mom who continued to operate their taxicab business. And will the minister please ask th e Premier (Mr. Pallister) to withdraw Bill 30? Hon.

Jeff Wharton (Minister of Municipal Relations): I'd like to thank the member opposite for the question and also taking

part in the democratic process over the last few days. Safety was an issue that does –that did come up quite often during the process, Madam Speaker, and this government takes safety very seriously. We are continuing to consult with Manitobans. We are consulting with the industry. Unlike members opposite, we wi ll continue to consult and get this right for Manitobans. Fisheries Envoy Report Costs Mr. Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): I'm wondering if the minister would be willing to share with the House how much the fisheries envoy report cost. Thank you. Hon.

Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sustainable Development): Today, the Auditor General released a scathing report on this –on the previous government's colossal failure on the management of the environment. Madam Speaker, we have a lot of work to do, and our gove rnment is going to release a report in a few days on how we're going to protect the economy and protect the environment.

And while we're doing the job that they failed to get done, I would ask members opposite to read the report from the Auditor General, r eflect on that report and then get on board and support our initiatives as we continue to clean up the mess that they left behind. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question. Mr. Altemeyer: Well, Madam Speaker, true to form, we did not get an answer to the question asked. Not to worry, I have the answer. I'd like to table in the House today, if I may, a document from the Department of Sustainable Development.

Disclosure of contracts indicates the cost of this report was $150,000. The truly insulting part to this tragic story, Madam Speaker: the government has already told the envoys, who wrote the report in advance, they were not going to listen to anything they say. How can this minister stand up and say her government, on the one hand, has no money for important services they are cutting, but they're more than willing to funnel this type of money for a useless exercise this government is not going to listen to? Madam Speaker: The time for oral–oh, sorry. Ms.

Squires: And speaking of useless exercises, it was a complete, useless exercise when the previous administration released reports. They released targets they had absolutely no plan to achieve. When the Auditor General said to them that they were not on track to achieve their targets, what did they do? They shut the lights and they turned their back on the report. They had absolutely no intention of cleaning up the environment. While we're cleaning up the environment, I suggest members opposite get on board. Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. Petitions?

Point of Order Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a point of order. Order. Order, please. Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): On a point of order. I rise this afternoon regarding some unfortunate comments that were made by the member for Emerson (Mr. Graydon) in this afternoon's question period. This afternoon, the member for St. Johns (Ms. Fontaine) was asking questions of the Attorney General (Mrs. Stefanson) about Bill 27 and concerns about voter suppression. And, unfortunately, the member for Emerson clearly said: I wouldn't want more people to vote in St. Johns.

October 25, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3137 As an inner -city MLA, I find it highly inappropriate that a member of this House, of this Legislature, would wish that people in this province not have the democratic right to vote. There are new Canadians, indigenous people and transient people. Many people do not have photo ID. And I hope –and we're all honourable members –I would like t o give the government credit that what the member for Emerson said has nothing to do with government policy. So I would ask the member for Emerson to stand today, apologize to the member for St. Johns (Ms.

Fontaine) and apologize to the people of St. Johns for a clearly inappropriate comment, Madam Speaker. Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Madam Speaker, his hearing is not as good as it could be. In fact, I said why would you not want to have more people speak in St. Johns, and that's exactly what the minister was referring to when she answered. Madam Speaker: I will take this point of order under advisement to see what it is that we can ascertain from the record and bring back the findings to the House. PETITIONS Transit Funding Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): I would kindly ask that everyone in the House relax. It's okay. I wish to present the following– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Mr. Kinew: I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly, Madam Speaker. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Bill 36, the budget implementation and– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –statutes amendment act, 2017,

section 88(8) repeals the portion of The Municipal Taxation and Funding Act which states, quote: The municipal grants for a fiscal year must include for each municipality that operates a regular or rapid public transit system a transit operating grant– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order, please. Order. I'm having a lot of difficulty hearing the member read his petition. I would ask for members to please take down the noise so that we can properly hear the petition that is being read. Mr. Kinew: Luckily, I didn't lose my place; otherwise, I might have to start over.

But maybe I'll just back up to the beginning of the quote. "The municipal grants for a fiscal year must include for each municipality that operates a regular or rapid public transit system a transit operating grant in an amount that is not less than 50 per cent of the annual operating cost of the transit system in excess of its annual operating revenue." End quote.

(2) Public transit is critical to Manitoba's economy, to preserving its infrastructure and to reducing the carbon footprint.

(3) Eliminating the grant guarantees for municipal transit agencies will be detrimental to transit services and be harmful to provincial objectives of connecting Manitobans to employment, improving aging road infrastructure and addressing climate change. * (14:40) We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to withdraw its plan to repeal the annual operating grant for municipal transit agencies and remove

section 88(8) of Bill 36, the budget implementation and s tatutes amendment act, 2017. This petition is signed by P. Jenkins, J. Gibbing, R. Winter and other Manitobans. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read, they are deemed to be received by the House. Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And t he background to this petition is as follows: Bill 36, the budget implementation statutes amendment act, 2017,

section 88(8) , repeals the portion of t he municipal taxation funding act which states, quote: The municipal grants for a fiscal year must include for each municipality that operates a regular or rapid transit system a transit operating grant in an amount that is not less than 50 per cent of

3138 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 25, 2017 the annual operating cost of the transit system in excess of its annual operating revenue. End quote.

(2) Public transit is critical to Manitoba's economy, to preserving its infrastructure and to reducing its carbon footprint.

(3) Eliminating the grant guarantees for municipal trans it agencies will be detrimental to transit services and be harmful to provincial objectives of connecting Manitobans to employment, improving aging road infrastructure and addressing climate change. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to withdraw its plan to repeal the operating grant for municipal transit agencies and remove

section 88(8) of Bill 36, the budget implementation and statutes amendment act, 2017. And this petition is signed by many Manitobans. Mr. James Allum (Fort Garry-Riverview): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: Bill 36, the budget implementation and statutes amendment act, 2017,

section 88(8), repeals the portion of The Municipal Taxation and Funding Act which states, quote: The municipal grants for a fiscal year must include for each municipality that operates a regular or rapid public transit system a transit operating grant in an amount that is not less than 50 per cent of the annual operating cost of the transit system in excess of its annual operating revenue. End quote.

(2) Public transit is critical to Manitoba's economy, to preserving its infrastructure and to reducing the carbon footprint.

(3) Eliminating the grant guarantees for municipal transit agencies will be detrimental to transit services and be harmful to provincial objectives of connecting Manitobans to employment, improving aging road infrastructure and addres sing climate change. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to withdraw its plan to repeal the annual operating grant for municipal transit agencies and remove

section 88(8) of Bill 36, the budget implementation and statutes amendment act, 2017. This petition is signed by many Manitobans. Northern Patient Transfer Program Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows: Manitobans recognize that everyone deserves quality, accessible health care. The people of northern Manitoba face unique challenges when accessing health care, including inclement weather, remote communities and seasonal roads.

The provincial government has already unwisely cancelled northern health investments, including clinics in The Pas and Thompson. Furthermore, the provincial government has taken a course that will discourage doctors from practising in the North, namely, their decision to cut a grant program designed to bring more doctors to rural Manitoba. The provincial government has also substantially cut investments in roads and highways, which will make it more difficult for northerners to access health care.

The provincial government's austerity approach is now threatening to cut funding for essential programs such as the Northern Patient Transportation Program, which was designed to help some of the most vulnerable people in the province. The provincial government has recently announced it would cancel the airfare subsidy for patient escorts who fly to Winnipeg for medical treatment, which will be devastating for patients with mobility issues, dementia, who are elderly and need assistance getting to the city.

The challenges that northerners face will only be overcome if the provincial government respects, improves and adequately funds quality programs that were designed to help northerners, such as the Northern Patient Transportation Program. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to recognize the absolute necessity of maintaining and improving

October 25, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3139 the Northern Patient Transportation Program by continuing to respect Northern Patient Transf er agreements and funding these services in accordance with the needs of northern Manitobans. And t his petition has been signed by many Manitobans. Transit Funding Ms. Flor Marcelino (Logan): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows: Bill 36, the budget implementation and statutes amendment act, 2017,

section 88(8) repeals the portion of The Municipal Ta xation and Funding Act which states, quote, "The municipal grants for a fiscal year must include for each municipality that operates a regular or rapid public transit system a transit operating grant in an amount that is not less than 50 per cent of the an nual operating cost of the transit system in excess of its annual operating revenue," unquote.

(2) Public transit is critical to Manitoba's economy, to preserving its infrastructure and to reducing the carbon footprint.

(3) Eliminating the grant guarantees for municipal transit agencies will be detrimental to transit services and be harmful to provincial objectives of connecting Manitobans to employment, improving aging road infrastructure and addressing climate change. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to withdraw its plan to repeal the annual operating grant for municipal transit agencies and remove

section 88(8) of Bill 36, the budget implementation and st atutes amendment act, 2017. Signed by many, many, many Manitobans. Mr. Greg Selinger (St. Boniface): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And the background to this petition is as follows: Bill 36, the budget impl ementation and statutes amendment act of 2017,

section 88(8) repeals the portion of The Municipal Taxation and Funding Act which states, the municipal grants for a fiscal year must include for each municipality that operates a regular or rapid public trans it system a transit operating grant in an amount that is not less than 50 per cent of the annual operating cost of the transit system in excess of its annual operating revenue. Public transit is critical to Manitoba's economy, preserving its infrastructur e and to reducing the carbon footprint.

Eliminating the grant guarantees to municipal transit agencies will be detrimental to transit services and be harmful to provincial objectives of connecting Manitobans to employment, improving aging road infrastructure and addressing climate change. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to withdraw its plan to repeal the annual operating grant for municipal transit agencies and remove

section 88(8) of Bill 36, the budget implementation and statutes amendment act of 2017. Signed by Roxanna [phonetic] Koop, Bryce Singbell, Pearson Montganek, Matthew Rajfer, Hugh [phonetic] Bunguke and many, many others. * (14:50) Taxi Industry Regulation Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of the petition is as follows:

(1) The taxi industry in Winnipeg provides an important service to all Manitobans.

(2) The taxi industry is regulated to ensure that there are both the provision of taxi service and a fair and affordable fare structure.

(3) Regulations have been put in place that has made Winnipeg a leader in protecting the safety of taxi drivers throu gh the installation of shields and cameras.

(4) The regulated taxi system also has significant measures in place to protect passengers, including a stringent complaint system.

(5) The provincial government has moved to bring in legislation through Bill 30 that will transfer jurisdiction to the City of Winnipeg in order to bring in so-called ride-sharing services like Uber.

(6) There were no consultations with the taxi industry prior to the introduction of this bill.

3140 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 25, 2017

(7) The introduction of this bill jeopardizes safety, taxi service, and also puts consumers at risk, as well as the livelihood of hundreds of Manitobans, many of whom have invested their life savings into the industry.

(8) The proposed legislation also puts the regulated framework at ri sk that could lead to issues such as what has been seen in other jurisdictions, including differential pricing, not providing service to some areas of the city, and significant risks in terms of taxi driver and passenger safety. We petition the Legislativ e Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to withdraw its plans to deregulate the taxi industry, including withdrawing Bill 30. And this petition is signed by many Manitobans. Transit Funding Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Bill 36, the budget implementation and statutes amendment act, 2017,

section 88(8) repeals the portion of The Municipal Ta xation and Funding Act which states the municipal grants for a fiscal year must include for each municipality the operations a regular or rapid public transit system or a transit operating grant in the amount that is not less than 50 per cent of the annual operating cost to the transit system in excess of its annual operating revenue.

(2) Public transit is crucial to Manitoba's economy, to preserving its infrastructure and to reducing the carbon footprint.

(3) Eliminating the grant guarantees for municipal transit agencies will be detrimental to transit services and be harmful to provincial objectives of connecting Manitobans to employment, improving aging road infrastructure and addressing climate change. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to withdraw its plan to repeal the annual operating grant for municipal transit agencies and remove

section 88(8) of Bill 36, the budget implementation and statuses amendment–statutes amendment act, 2017. Signed by many, many Manitobans. Madam Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Cliff Cullen (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, I ask that you call Committee of Supply. Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will consider Estimates this afternoon. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) EXECUTIVE COUNCIL * (15:10) Mr. Chairperson (Dennis Smook): Will Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Executive Council. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Just in time. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and you know, I apologize for having to run up to take the question. There's a school group in town for We Day, which was happening at MTS Centre. I know many of us have had the chance to go to We Day. It's a great event, inspires many you ng people. So just paused to talk to some of the youth who are in the building, here, but I do apologize.

When last we were here, I think we were following up on some details about matters under advisement. I don't know if the Premier is going to table those or not. If not, then we could sort of proceed to some other conversations. There were a few questions on the KPMG report that I wanted to dive into, but I guess I'll just ask the Premier whether he's had the opportunity to table all those items that he had wanted to last time or whether we should go ahead and avail ourselves of the time we have to cover some more ground. Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, I want to address the questions the member had asked me

October 25, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3141 before, as I have been doing all the way through Estimates, and he had asked me about staff and I shared the names of all –and positions of all the people in the Executive Council with him. Of course, there's some positions that are –were vacant, I referenced as well, but as of the present time, the technical officer payroll is just a little over half of what it was in the last days of the previous administration, over $8 million there and about $4.36 million now.

And I wanted to also–because I undertook to do this, to read into the record the salaries, not the benefits but the salaries of the people I had referenced the other day because the member had asked me to do that. So these are not in the category that I described of the structure earlier, as I outlined the structure for the member, but simply alphabetically, so I will just read those into the record so the member has that information he had asked for. Ironically, Arlene Arnal is my ex ecutive secretary, is the first one, name starting with A and everything, and her salary is $63,832.

And, as I mentioned the other day, this does not include reference to benefits, pension benefits or any other accrued vacation time, any of those aspects. This is strictly on annual salary. Hannah Anderson, administrative assistant, $57,400. I'll just round them up or down on the hundreds. Peggy Barta, orders -in-council officer, fifty-six thousand, six–closer to seven hundred. Olivia Billson, press secretar y to the Premier, $74,600. Alison DePauw, administrative assistant, $63,800. Joey Dearborn, issues management officer, $62,900. Kristine Derksen, who is my correspondence officer, $52,300.

Cindy Field, office manager, $62,600. Stacia Franz, creative and digital specialist, $74,600. Cathleen Goodman, administrative assistant, $41,400. Philip Houde, chief of staff, $167,154. Alysia Lawson, outreach co-ordinator, $63,200. Craig MacDonald, director of regional Cabinet operations, $84,300. Caitlin MacGregor, press secretary, $57,400. Amy McGuinness, press secretary, $74,600. Wesley McLean, government House assistant, $71,900.

Fred Meier, he's –would blush if I read his salary, he's really, really underpaid as the Clerk of the Executive Council, worth far more than he accepts in salary so I'll just leave that unless the member's really curious. Jillian Neirinck, administrative assistant, $41,400. Jeanine Pitre, executive assistant to chief of staff, $74,600. Chisholm Pothier, director of Communications and Stakeholder Relations, $128,600. Kalen Qually, who just had a birthday, press secretary, $71,900. Viviane Riding, Cabinet administrative officer, $57,400. Deveryn Ross, speech and correspondence writer, $65,600.

Have I run out of time? Oh, I'm okay? Good. Gurpreet Sehra, administrative assistant to the Clerk of Executive Council, $47,600. Morgan Shipley, tour co-ordinator and outreach co-ordinator, $74,600. Elliot Sims, director of Legislative Affairs and Regulatory Accountability, $119,600. Andrea Slobodian, press secretary, $74,600. Just about done. Do you want me to just finish? I can–I'm just about done, so I can get through. An Honourable Member: I'd ask for leave for the Premier (Mr. Pallister) to finish reading his list. Mr.

Pallister: Marsha Street, assistant to the director of regional Cabinet operations, $51,300. Darcy Thompson [phonetic] , administrative assistant, Cabinet offices, The Pas, $51,300. Bruce Verry, director of operations, Premier's secretariat, $87,900. David von Meyenfeldt, press secretary, $74,600. Lynn Voth, executive assistant to Clerk of Executive Council, $68,100. And Colin Weeres, special assistant to Premier, $76,100. And that's the complete list and the –as I mentioned, omitting the benefits and other aspects. Just the salaries for everyone –Executive Council staff. Mr.

Kinew: I understand that the Premier appointed a new secretary to Treasury Board, Mr. Paul Beauregard. Can the Premier share some information regarding Mr. Beauregard' s background and experience, as well as when he first met Mr. Beauregard? Mr. Pallister: I'll–what I'll do–I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I'll ask Fred to help me pull up the CV for Mr. Beauregard and then we can get more detail rather than me anecdotally answering the member's question. I'll give him a fuller answer with background, experience and relevant training of Mr.

Beauregard. * (15:20) I can–I'd undertaken also–the member had asked me the other day about what was the rationale for

3142 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 25, 2017 using outside le gal counsel to give advice, so I'd prepared a response to that. I can just read that on the record; it's pretty short. Want to go ahead and do that? An Honourable Member: Sure. Mr. Pallister: Okay. So this is –the member had a very legitimate question about why would you go– you know, we have legal expertise within the government–why would you go outside?

And this was in reference to the constitutional advice we were seeking in respect of the legalities around the federal government -proposed carbon pla n, you know, the made -in-Ottawa package. And so I committed to providing member with that information, the rationale as to why we did that. I attempted to answer, but I think this is a better answer than the one I gave. Why did we use external legal counsel in respect of the abilities of federal government to impose a plan on Manitoba? And, to be clear on this, the issue was one of protecting the integrity of public servants within our government.

Had I gone to our Manitoba team–legal team–and asked them for a legal opinion, there's a very real risk I'd be opening them up to criticism as a consequence of whatever advice they would provide to my government, because we have been asking some specific questions about carbon taxes, whether the federal government can impose a carbon tax on Manitoba.

Regardless of the advice they might have given me, I was concerned, and I think my c lerk–I can–it's fair to say, was concerned as well that we might open up civil servants to criticisms that they were in some way unduly influenced by my desire for a particular outcome or open to, you know, offering what could be interpreted by some as political advice rather than purely policy advice.

So I would want to make it very clear for the record: this was most certainl y not a question of the integrity of any of the people in the civil service at all, and their competence, their capabilities, I think, are–I would hope –certainly, the member for Minto (Mr.

Swan), who worked very closely as the AG for some time with many of these folks, would know of their integrity, I'm sure, would agree with me on the quality of the people that we have in our employ here in Manitoba in this respect, so it was very important that we understand that we hold in high esteem not only those folks that we were attempting to protect here by obtaining outside advice, but also, in general, the members of our public sector.

So it was very important not to create a perception that could in any way compromise their integrity and put them in an untenabl e position, so that's–in short, that's why we turned to an outside source. We did, however, ask our constitutional lawyers, who should we turn to as an external adviser and expert, and it was on their recommendation that we retained Dr. Schwartz, Bryan Sc hwartz. In addition to pointing to his interest in taking on this project, they advised that Dr.

Schwartz was –would be very likely willing and available to prepare a legal opinion on the constitutionality of the proposed federal carbon-pricing backstop legislation. We agreed with that recommendation because Dr. Schwartz has got an extensive background in constitutional law. He's a teacher; he's a scholar; he's taught constitutional law at U of M for many years. He's authored numerous books and articles. I enjoy his–I forget the name right now, but I know the member for Minto was interviewed as a former House leader by Professor Schwartz for that publication.

I think it's called something– An Honourable Member: Under the Golden Boy. Mr. Pallister: Under th e Golden Boy –very interesting articles in there quite frequently on interest–on topical –topics of great interest to all of us, I think. And he, as a national expert –he's recognized as a national expert. He was available and willing to undertake the proje ct on an urgent basis, indicated he could perform –complete the project in reasonable timelines, which we did want. And, given that there's a pretty limited pool of lawyers with his expertise, that's–there's your rationale as to why we made that decision. Mr.

Kinew: So I think what we heard there was a rationale from the Premier's perspective, but what was listed as the matter under advisement was advice related to retaining outside legal experts, so advice that the Premier (Mr. Pallister) would have received on that. I'll just assume that whatever advice he had was factored in there, but again, if there's other memos or, you know, f orms of advice the Premier received, then, of course, be interested in hearing about that. Just going back to Mr. Beauregard, I'd like to ask the Premier: When did he make the decision to hire Mr. Beauregard in the new role?

October 25, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3143 Mr. Pallister: First of all, advice was given verbally through the c lerk and then on to me, and we'll be able to research the exact date. I don't recall exact date right now, and I wouldn't want to give the member the wrong one. I'm just– I'm trying to clean up my list of undertakings. The member asked me some questions there, and I've got a short memo on another question he had asked also, which was i n respect of David McLaughlin and meetings that he had had. I had read the ones, the Manitoba –some of the Manitoba meetings. I missed a couple.

I also didn't have a list, at the time that he had asked the question, about meetings that he had had outside of Manitoba, and so I'll just provide that information I undertook to give to the member as well. This was –beginning with some of the consultations with organizations outside of Manitoba. Mr. McLaughlin had met with senior staff in– policy advisers as well w ith ministers of the Government of Canada on numerous occasions. He also had two separate meetings with deputy ministers of the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment.

In addition, he met with representatives from other provincial governmen ts, including Saskatchewan, British Columbia, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Labrador, Ontario and Alberta. In terms of some other meetings that he had held, on September 20th of last year he had a meeting with stakeholders for a carbon- pricing roundtable with 23 participants, which I neglected to read. I'd missed that in my previous list so I'll reference that now.

In addition he had: environmental non- governmental organization stakeholders roundtable, which I did not reference, which was held on November 30th of last year with 18 participants; Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce stakeholders meeting held January 11th of this year, 13 participants; multi -bilateral meetings held with over 51–more than 51 key stakeholders –held between August 16 and October 17. Backing up for a second, I believe we got the date for –the official hiring was August 3rd for Professor Schwartz: August 3rd of 2017.

Numerous presentations delivered to stakeholders at meetings, conferences, workshops, including two f ull-day sessions with over 40 people from agriculture, forestry, wetlands, grasslands, universities, habitat sectors –in partnership with the International Institute for Sustainable Development – on carbon offsets and sinks. Presentations to a variety of asso ciations and organizations from industry groups to municipal groups as well.

In addition, just last month, September 7th, he had a meeting with outputs –on the topic –output-based carbon-pricing workshops with 21 stakeholders from a variety of sectors of our economy. He also, internally, created and led an interdepartmental climate change policy working group. Who all was involved with that? [interjection] So, involved in that was staff from an array of government departments, because, as we know, these gre en stuff –green issues permeate about every department of government in some way, shape or form. So he helped co- ordinate and organize that –actually created that group and led it.

In addition, he had over 70 separate meetings with officials from eight s pecific departments, key departments, plus the Executive Council office. Those departments being: Sustainable Development, naturally; Finance; Agriculture; Growth, Enterprise and Trade; Justice; Intergovernmental Affairs; Crown Services, specifically Manit oba Hydro; and, as well, Infrastructure. And I can give the member more detail if he'd like on those meetings. There's no doubt that we got –thus far at least, we've had excellent value for money from the work of Mr. McLaughlin. I'd expect that to continue. * (15:30) Mr.

Kinew: So, returning to Mr. Beauregard: he previously worked in the telecommunications industry as an executive and also as a lobbyist. I'm curious to know, did the Premier (Mr. Pallister) or his staff ever meet with Mr. Beauregard during his time working as a lobbyist? Mr. Pallister: That's a good question. I recall –I do recall having a meeting with him, but I'm –I want to get–because he has to register as a lobbyist, so we'll be able to get the exact details from officia ls here in due course, and be able to share exactly what those dates and topics were at that point in time.

I've got – for undertaking to get his CV, I've got his CV, so I'll just read some of his qualifications into the record– sure. So, like many CVs, I e xpect this–I'll be reading, you know, a lot of high praise for the guy into the record, because I expect he would, you know, deserves it. But that's the nature of CVs, the nature of CVs.

3144 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 25, 2017 So it starts with the shameless self promotion, as they all do, saying that he delivers results, tenacious, creative, collaborative, high functioning in high-stress environments, delivers on commitments, understands importance of execution, comfortable making nuanced decisions with imperfect information; broad- based business executive, seasoned executive in large public company; complex problem solver, ability to parse complex issues involving multiple stakeholders, specializes in analyzing and fixing dynamic political and regulatory matters; change agent, envisions and designs change, makes it happen, outcomes and strategies tailored to audiences, builds bridges before needing them; effective communicator, communicates complex ideas simply, professional media training with extensive experience in internal and ext ernal communications; team builder and leader, passionate, authentic, high engagement leader; legal and governance expert, recipient of multiple national and international board governance awards, Top 40 Under 40, Lexpert Rising Star; recognized lawyer, managed three material precedent-setting cases through appeal courts; scope of opportunities, projects versus processes, define success then execute to make it happen with a defined time horizon; driving change, not being a custodian for the status quo–which I think in particular emphasises his applicability and usefulness for the task we've inherited here in Manitoba –span of control and autonomy to have ability and accountability to deliver results; ability to be surrounded by people who are excited about change and making things better.

And it goes on to give more of a background in other pursuits. For a decade, Mr. Beauregard was involved with the Manitoba Telecom Services, formerly MTS Allstream, as chief corporate and strategy officer and corporate secretary. Portfolios and successive promotions have included combinations of strategy, corporate development, legal, regulatory, government relations, corporate secretariat governance, HR, labour relations, corporate communications, community investment and corporate and digital security.

And this while working, of course, as the member knows, for a $4-billion public company with thousands of employees. It goes on to describe –and if the member's interested I can get into greater detail on some of his highlights there. Prior to that time, for –during five years he was with Bell Canada as the vice- president of law, mergers and acquisitions; formerly senior counsel and assistant general counsel, so did extensive work with them. For–during nine years prior to that time he was with Davies Ward Phillips & Vineberg, a law firm in Toronto as an equity partner.

And there's an overview, at least, of background. And, going way back, he was in–he was an exchange teacher in Japan back in the '90s, in '93- '94 specifically. And then, prior to that, at the U of W, which is quite familiar to the member for Fort Rouge (Mr. Kinew), as–from '90 to '93 as a research and teaching assistant in the areas of –also quite familiar to the member for Fort Rouge–in economics. Mr. Kinew: So the Premier (Mr. Pallister) mentioned meeting with Mr. Beauregard before his time as Secretary to Treasury Board. What was the subject of the conversation at the meeting or meetings?

What was under discussion at those meetings? Mr. Pallister: I'll verify for the member. I don't like to guess, but I was–I'm quite sure, given his previous position with MTS, that it would have had something to do wi th Manitoba Telecom Services or Bell and, as the member knows, they were engaged in discussion, so I'm thinking it was that, but I'll verify it, as I said, for the member. I missed out some major things here: his educational background, and I should read that into the record. He's a graduate, in 1988, from Silver Heights Collegiate here in Winnipeg.

He then received, in 1996, his BA in honours economics from U of W, a fine institution which, of course, we believe in very much and where my daughter curre ntly attends, and so we think it's a fine university. In May of '97 he received his JD –and I'm not sure what JD stands for –it was formerly LL.D., though, so it's a law degree from the University of Toronto Faculty of Law.

In 1998–his bar admission cours e from the Law Society of Upper Canada; in '99 he was called to the Ontario Bar; in 2008 called to the Manitoba Bar, and in 2013 he graduated from the authentic leadership development program, a renowned training program at Harvard Business School. So th at would be his –some of his academic background.

October 25, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3145 And I think I had undertaken something else – no–provide the member with more information on another topic –no–[interjection]–we've got that, yes, thanks, that was it –[interjection]–yes; no; good, good, yes, exactly, yes, the additional. And I emphasize again because I see the new member who I have congratulated previously but will do so again, for Point Douglas, and say that this is a total departure from the approach that was taken by the previous administration when I was in the chair which now is occupied by the member for Fort Rouge (Mr. Kinew).

For three years in Estimates process, I was never able, despite frequent requests, to obtain a single shred of information from the previous premier – not once–and I hope that –and I'm not asking for congratulations from the member, but I know that he's new here and I know that he and the member for Point Douglas (Mrs. Smith) may not understand the comparative change that has occurred here at Estimates with our government in respect of the fact that I have been forthcoming on every issue that the members have asked me for information on.

The member for Fort Rouge and, before him, the interim leader, the member for Logan (Ms. Marcelino) has asked me f or numerous pieces of information and I provided them all, and I take some pride in that and I hope we can continue to do that.

I think that that's how our relationship can work better to the benefit of the people of the province, and I sincerely hope that that's something the members knew–are willing to acknowledge and, you know, at some future point, perhaps 20, 30 years from now, when the shoe's on the other foot, I would expect that reciprocal behaviour would be the nature of how whatever the name of the party would be at that time that's in government, that they would behave in that manner. It is something, I think, that's important to make the system work more effectively and well.

Certainly, in Ottawa, in my time there on both sides of the House–not simultaneously, I might point out–the ability to obtain information was sometimes constrained by either party in power and I don't think that's helpful. * (15:40) So the detail on –I'm running out of time, so I will give the detail on Churchill the member had asked for, given a new time slot, but I did want to put that editorial comment on the record because I think it's important to understand–also for members of the media who I know appreciate –though they don't frequently say so, naturally, nor should they –the openness with which we deal with information.

Sometimes belatedly, but at least belatedly, we deal with information that they ask for, and we've endeavoured to change that culture from the way it was before. For example, we have–well, I'll get into this in a second in respect of severance payments. Mr. Kinew: So, the Lobbyists Registry indicates that Paul B eauregard's start date as a lobbyist was January 18, 2017. And there's a note indicating that Mr. Beauregard met with the Premier and some of his senior staff–or, no, a note indicating that meeting was added on January 24th, 2017.

So I assume the Premier has undertaken to get back with some details about the meeting, so as part of that, if he could, you know, just sort of lay out the timing for that meeting that was referred to in that note, that would be great. Also, the Premier's acknowledged, I think, that he was present at at least some of those meetings, conversations. I don't know if there was other ones that happened with staff and Mr. Beau regard–again, would be interested to know.

The intended outcome for the meeting, according to what was filed with the Lobbyists Registry, was to, quote, influence the awarding of a grant, contribution or other financial benefit by or on behalf of the Manitoba government. End quote. There also seems to be a reference in the registry, the Lobbyists Registry, that the discussion focused on emergency communications in Manitoba. So I'd like to know, what was the benefit in question? What was the subject of the lobbying that was being done with respect to emergency communications? Mr.

Pallister: I think what I'll do is I'll just make sure of my dates and make sure that I'm talking about the meetings that the member's asking about here in context so that I don't confuse things, because I know there have been –I've had a few meetings in the last few months, so I want to make sure I get the actual detail of the specific meeting he's asking about. I do recall an announcement that we made down in Morris on expanding access to cell reception. I remember another announcement about expanding services in Thompson–[interjection] –so I'm–oh, Churchill? Was it Churchill as well? Yes.

So, I'll pull this together for the member. I've undertaken to do that and will.

3146 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 25, 2017 But I should mention–and I think this serves as a way of contrast –we had real difficulty back a while ago –I think it was in –around the time of the rebellion in the previous government's Cabinet –to get information on severance and the handling of severance payments that were made to members. And, as I recall, one of those individuals was Liam Martin, and he was, we found out later, given about $146,000 to not work–paid to leave.

And the reason I'm referencing this is because he is, I understand, back, and this is the type of thing that troubles, I think, taxpayers, frankly, when we are paying people severance payments –when we're paying people severance payments to leave, to not work and then covering it up. And I was asking questions of the previous premier on t his issue and on the others. There was a series –I think there were six other members.

I think–if I recall, the total severance payments are in the area of, like, close to three quarters of a million dollars –and couldn't get a shred of detail or a breakdown on that information at all. And I would just want to be sure that this isn't something that continues under the new leader, because this is not a practice that we should be respecting. We're paying –the previous government was paying people to leave, now they're paying people to come back.

This flip-floppy rolling things around to– for people to pay, it's one thing–quite legitimately, the member was asking me questions about paying David McLaughlin for work. Well, we –I've outlined in great detail all the w ork that David McLaughlin has done, raised the issue of travel expenses and so on. And see, these are legitimate issues to raise, and I respect his right to raise them. But his concerns about $30,000 have been answered by me in detail, and yet we still hav en't got detailed outline of what happened when the NDP paid over $700,000 to six or seven different people to not work.

So I don't mind defending us paying people for value for money and making sure we're getting value for money, but I sure don't want t o see us running into a situation where the NDP is hiring back the same people that were already paid not to work, and paid to leave, so they come back again and cash in again a second time. I just –I think it puts us all into discredit regardless of party, even though it's –it would be an NDP decision, I'm sure, to hire these folks back. I don't know what's going to happen with Rachel Notley.

I don't know how many of the former NDP staffers are working for her, but there is a good chance that in a couple years, there's going to be some staff come free out there in Alberta. And people we paid to leave from Manitoba –the taxpayers were asked to pay –to not work after the NDP rebellion, and sent out –shipped off to Alberta – are going to be shipped back here and we're going to be paying them again. And I –you know, I just don't think that's fair or right. You know, it's almost like a departure tax that Manitobans have to pay for.

And–you know, a slush fund for socialist staffers to fly off to other parts of the country or other organizations and get paid there, and then–I wonder if Mr. Martin got –did he get severance from the Manitoba Teachers' Society, too? So he's got severance already to not work for the government of Manitoba. Soon after–within the time that severance should have covered for him to be unemployed, he's already employed. And now, did he get severance from Manitoba Teachers' Society as well while he's now getting paid back here? I mean, this is a great way for a guy to make double salaries.

But it's not fair, it's not right, and it's taxpayers that are paying that bill. So I'd like the member to undertake to get back to me, as I have done for him with David McLaughlin–I'd like him to get back to me on the facts around this Mr. Liam Martin and what the exact payment totals are and from where they emanate. Of that $150,000, what kind of value did Manitobans get for that investment? I think those are fair questions to ask reciprocally to the member. Mr. Kinew: To my knowledge, you know, the fact s that the Premier laid out match up with the –you know, some of what has been released publicly.

So I don't really know anything about private organizations, unions, arrangements. I would point out to you, Mr. Chai r, and also remind the Premier that he h imself has taken severance payments. I believe there were over $100,000 in severance payments when he left provincial and federal governments. So he uses a language of departure tax to, you know, get a nod out of his backbenchers sitting across from him but, again, severance is a part of the arrangements that have been made both for public figures and also for staffers. So I would just remind the Premier again that he's taken severance payments in the past.

October 25, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3147 I also know that once he started in the office of Leader of the Opposition, I believe that there were some changes made on the Progressive Conservative staffing side and that there were severance payments made there as well. So I mean, it seems to be an issue that comes up with and is dealt with. It's a n HR matter, as far as I understand it. I would like to talk more about Mr. Beauregard and the nature of those meetings that happened prior to him becoming the secretary to the Treasury Board.

You know, again, the intended outcome for the meetings that he had as a lobbyist were to influence– and this is a quote: influence the wording of a grant contribution or other financial benefit by or on behalf of the Manitoba government. End quote. So now Mr. Beauregard, I would assume, in his role working with Treasury Board has the ability to have input on spending that is made by the provincial government. * (15:50) I'm wondering whether the Premier (Mr. Pallister) discussed with Mr.

Beauregard any implications of his previous work as a lobbyist and whether that might cause any issues in his new work with Treasury Board: whether there was any conversations about that, whether there's any conversations about potential conflicts of interest, real or perceived, and what did the Premier talk to Mr. Beauregard about on that front prior to him starting in his role as the Secretary to Treasury Board? Mr. Pallister: Every senior manager hired in government goes through a vetting process and hiring process led by the Clerk, Executive Council.

Everyone is subjected to the same essential screening processes in respect of things like conflict of interest. Those issues were addressed by the c lerk in respect of Mr. Beauregard and anyone else who was hired. But I want to correct the record, because the member is quite wrong on the issues of the severance payments. They were not done by formula; the NDP staffers were not paid on the basis of a formula. And we know those amounts are far in excess of what–for example, what Mr.

Martin was paid in severance for the length of time he served, a nurse would have to nurse for over 50 years to get that kind of a severance payment. So these are not the normal course of events, as he's attempting to portray. He may be mistaken in his assumptions, and I'd ask him to just to do some homewor k in respect of this issue and he'll be, I'm sure, as concerned as I am with respect to the nature of the ad hoc payments that were made. I would again emphasize that if the payments were honourably made that they would not have been covered up, and they were covered up.

Payments he's referencing made to me are similar in style to the payments made to every departing Member of Parliament and are public. They are made public and that's the reason he's able to cite them. And they're made by formula based on years served, salary and so on–other strict guidelines. But this is not at all the case with the $700,000- plus that was paid to these departing staffers.

They departed as a consequence of a rebellion: their chosen candidate in the NDP leadership race didn 't win and, for some reason, despite the fact they were guaranteed they wouldn't lose their jobs, they ended up departing and being paid to depart. And they were not paid according to formula by any evidence, because the formula has never been made public–if the NDP has such a formula, they should, of course, table it–but rather were simply paid.

And this creates the appearance–many appearances–certainly one of mismanagement, which is apparent on the face of it, but also the appearance of wrongdoing, in t he sense that it was covered up. So, you know, we're talking about over two -thirds of a million dollars, and now I'm, you know, I'm asking the member to get to the bottom of it, because I don't think any Manitoban wants to see someone who was paid to leave, to do no work whatsoever, then paid to come back, plus be paid again, by another tax-funded agency, that being Manitoba Teachers' Society, so it's my old union I'm talking about.

And I would hope that there was no additional severance being paid at the p oint of his departure there, because I understand that he left there to come here, and so there would have –certainly should have been no severance earned as a consequence of that. But, again, there shouldn't have been payments of this obscene level made to six other staffers either and those were made. So, you know, I'm concerned about that. And I hope the member is too.

And I think it's a chance for him to clear the air, go in the new direction he promised he would take his party when he ran for leader, and I'd hope that he would follow up on it and not try to defend the indefensible in that respect, 'cause it isn't defensible. We'll get the exact details, as I have undertaken previously for the member, as to the meetings, the times–if I can get locations, I'll give him that too–the people involved. I would say, though, that I do recall

3148 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 25, 2017 a discussion about FleetNet and I think FleetNet's an issue that was raised. FleetNet, I should just for background remind the member, was the –is the, you know, the eme rgency contact system that the previous government failed to maintain and manage properly, that was allowed to deteriorate. And it was recommended to the previous administration that they repair this system for a number of years and they failed to do so. T his is, of course, this is the mobile radio service that was principally provided by the company that he references now, that Mr.

Beauregard worked for. So I do expect that was one of the meetings, was around FleetNet, but I'll verify that. One thing that I know though, is that the existing FleetNet system that we have was –is essentially obsolete and the previous government knew that for years and did nothing about it. So they handed us a poison pill with this one to the tune of –well, we'll find out exac tly. I've heard of estimates as high $450 million. That's not a small bill to hand to the next administration because you ignored repairs of something as important as an emergency contact system.

And I'll get more information on the record on this for the good use of the member opposite when given my next opportunity. Mr. Kinew: So the Premier (Mr. Pallister) in his answer says that one of the meetings, or perhaps the meeting that he had with Mr. Beauregard when Mr. Beauregard was a lobbyist, was to discuss FleetNet. The Premier also says that the cost of whatever contract is aw arded on replacing FleetNet might also be up to $450 million. I'm assuming that's just a ballpark figure. But we know that Mr.

Beauregard, who was a lobbying the Premier on this file – January of this year –is now not a lobbyist but he's the S ecretary to Tr easury Board , which, presumably, will be the table at which the new FleetNet contract–whatever replacement for FleetNet there is–is decided at whether or not to move ahead with awarding that contract. So has Mr. Beauregard recused himself from discussions around FleetNet? Mr. Pallister: Well, just to share with the member that–on a couple of levels, he should not fear the integrity of Mr. Beauregard.

First of all, as you mentioned earlier, he was vetted by the Clerk of the Executive Council. Conflict of interest was discussed in detail. He's filed all the necessary declarations. My understanding is he holds no shares whatsoever in the company. [interjection] Fighting a flu. But I would also mention that the previous administration awarded a direct award to MTS without competition for FleetNet which they then failed to act on. They did not follow through on it. They did not complete the process.

So, in other words, the previous administration, without shopping, awarded what we anticipate will be well in excess of $400 million of work to MTS. Now the member is expressing concern about the ethics and acumen of Mr. Beauregard, but I think this displays the lack of understanding of simple business acumen on the part of the previous administration rather well. So, you know, this system is particularly important for Manitoba's emergency personnel who are put into positions of risk. They –the previous administration was told about the problems with this system years ago –failed to act.

I have a copy of communication from MTS to our Minister of Finance (Mr. Friesen), written just about exactly a year ago saying –and I'll share with the member some of the information, this correspondence. But it says the syst em faces serious stability issues. Its operational future is in material doubt, aging technology is now obsolete; an inability of the prior provincial government to commit to a new solution despite compelling rationale for doing so.

That's what the letter from MTS says. * (16:00) It goes on to say –and this is a letter from the former president and CEO Jay Forbes –it goes without saying that communications technology is a fundamental building block of the modern emergency services Manitoba families r ely on. Any circumstance in which a police officer, firefighter or EMS responder could not communicate effectively with dispatchers and colleagues could put lives at risk. He then goes on to provide some background on what is FleetNet. I know the member i s aware of it, but I'll repeat; it's a provincial public safety radio network.

It's relied on daily by critical public safety agencies such as the RCMP, Manitoba transportation co-ordination centre, municipal fire departments all across Manitoba. It uses 148 radio towers and antennas to provide two- way communication to public safety radio users on foot or in vehicles.

October 25, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3149 The network has a very large footprint; it covers 98 per cent of Manitoba's roadways. FleetNet users, RCMP, fire, EMS and police workers ty pically communicate with other users and dispatch centres through a handheld radio device or through an in-vehicle mobile unit. A core feature of FleetNet allows a radio user to push to talk and be heard by all other radio users in the same group. And it includes other more advanced features such as radio encryption.

FleetNet has a central core network that allows radio users on one radio tower to communicate with radio users on other towers across the province. Initially constructed in 1993, FleetNet ha s been an essential component of modern emergency response services and a cornerstone of public safety in Ma

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	41-2-73
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	41st 2nd hansardpdf 73.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	ed0f8ca49d61d6a8ed343874f188b634e7800110

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