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April 19, 2018

SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Neil King, MHA for

Bonavista, substitutes for Jerry Dean, MHA for Exploits.

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Barry Petten, MHA for

Conception Bay South, substitutes for David Brazil, MHA for Conception Bay East

- Bell Island.

The

Committee met at 9 a.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Haley):

Good morning everyone.

We're

here this morning, of course, to review the Estimates of the Department of

Municipal Affairs and Environment. We have three hours allotted for this.

I now

ask the Committee if they would introduce themselves, please.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Kevin Parsons, MHA from the

beautiful District of Cape St. Francis.

MS. BONIA:

Laurie Bonia, Researcher, Official Opposition Office.

MR. PETTEN:

Barry Petten, MHA for CBS.

MR. LANE:

Paul Lane, MHA, Mount Pearl

- Southlands.

MS. ROGERS:

Gerry Rogers, I work for the

good people of St. John's Centre.

MR. MORGAN:

Ivan Morgan, Researcher, NDP caucus.

MR. KING:

Neil King, MHA, Bonavista.

I'm substituting for Jerry Dean.

MS. PARSLEY:

MHA Betty Parsley, Harbour

Main.

MR. WARR:

Brian Warr, Baie Verte -

Green Bay.

CHAIR:

That's right, we have two

substitutes this morning, Mr. King for Mr. Dean and Mr. Petten for Mr. Brazil.

Okay, I

now ask the minister to have some opening remarks, and as well to introduce his

officials.

MR. JOYCE:

Eddie Joyce, Minister.

MR. CHIPPETT:

Jamie Chippett, Deputy Minister, Municipal Affairs and Environment.

MS. TIZZARD:

Heather Tizzard, Assistant Deputy Minister, Municipal Infrastructure and

Support.

MS. KELLY:

Tara Kelly, ADM, Fire, Emergency and Corporate Services.

MR. CRANE:

Gerald Crane, Director of Climate Change branch.

MS. SHEA:

Erin Shea, Director of Communications.

MS. HAYES:

Robyn Hayes, Departmental Controller.

MR. HOLLOWAY:

Colin Holloway, MHA for the

District of Terra Nova and parliamentary secretary to the minister.

CHAIR:

Okay.

So the

responder, of course, will have 15 minutes, and then we'll go in 10-minute

intervals. The Official Opposition and then the Third Party, as well as the

independent Member.

MR. JOYCE:

First of all, I apologize

for being a bit late, there was a meeting that just ran over. So I apologize to

everybody. I'll cut it short in my words.

What

we're going to do today is go through the Estimates and go through the financial

part of the department. We'll limit it to any policy discussions, we'll go

through the budget Estimates.

The

only opening remark that I'll make is I just want to thank all the staff of

Municipal Affairs and Environment and Climate Change, all throughout, for all

your work that you do all throughout Newfoundland and Labrador. The relationship

that we have with MNL, working with the firefighters' association, and I know

with the Opposition also that we work very well when it comes to dealing with

the towns.

So I'll

stop my remarks there because I was a bit late and we'll make up the time that

way.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Minister.

instead of calling every single head, we'll just run on through, okay.

I ask

the Clerk to call the head.

CLERK (Murphy):

1.1.01.

CHAIR:

Shall 1.1.01 carry?

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay. I'd just like to ask

the officials, when you are speaking – because sometimes the other night it was

a little bit hard to hear – if you can talk into the microphone because

sometimes it's really, really – to get your answers and stuff like that because

I don't want to have to ask you twice or anything like that, okay?

I've

just got some general questions first to ask.

Minister, I'm hoping that I could get a copy of your binder after we're

finished, if that's okay.

MR. JOYCE:

Well, you can make the

request as usual, yes.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Yes, okay.

MR. JOYCE:

Because sometimes when

you're nice people then just take advantage of it and make comments that aren't

true. So the best thing to do is just go ahead and make the request. We have to

follow procedures on this, yes.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay, yes, the request is

made for it, if you can.

I'm

just wondering if there's any – because the other night we found a few mistakes

that were in the Estimates binder. There were a couple of things that weren't

there that were supposed to be there. So the full amount of Estimates will be

there when we get it, will it?

I know

in Fisheries there were a couple of documents that we needed afterwards that

weren't there. I just want to make sure that everything is okay.

Any

idea how many people are employed in the department?

MR. CHIPPETT:

233 is the number of positions.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

MR. CHIPPETT:

I think 197 are filled at this point in time.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Were there any retirements

in the department?

MR. CHIPPETT:

In '17-'18 there were 11 retirements.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

You say

there now – okay, so there are a good few vacancies. Are any of these positions

being eliminated?

MR. CHIPPETT:

No immediate plans to eliminate. There are a number of different reasons for the

vacancies. I'll give you a couple of examples that really influence that number.

We have

a number of positions, for example, in Emergency Services to assist with

disaster financial allocations. We had largely reduced filling those when the

Thanksgiving rainstorm event processing was almost done, but then in May, of

course, we had the Mud Lake event and then in January had the event on the West

Coast.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Yeah.

MR. CHIPPETT:

For example, there's a block of five or six positions there that are being

filled; will be filled this year to deal with the processing for the West Coast.

I think there are 10 or 12 of those that are actually under active recruitment.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

MR. CHIPPETT:

We'll look at every vacancy. For example, we have seven positions where we're

not filling the position to fund other priorities in the department; planned

savings, you freeze the position and you use the savings for funding other

priorities.

The

vast majority are either under recruitment, but we'll look at every vacancy,

obviously, with an eye to the attrition plans that we're a part of.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

Have

there been any layoffs or terminations in the department?

MR. CHIPPETT:

No layoffs.

MR. K. PARSONS:

No layoffs.

MR. CHIPPETT:

We've had temporary assignments that have ended, I think two, just based on

pieces of work being completed, but no layoffs.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

How

about new hires; many new hires in the department?

MR. CHIPPETT:

You mean new positions?

MR. K. PARSONS:

New positions, yes.

MR. CHIPPETT: The

two new positions that we funded internally this time around is the director who

is doing the review of municipal legislation. Secondly, we created an advisor

position on methylmercury to work through the independent expert advisory

committee.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

On the

attrition plan for the department, how many positions have – are you following

the attrition plan and how many positions have been either gone or –

MR. CHIPPETT:

The previous attrition plan –

MR. K. PARSONS:

Yeah.

MR. CHIPPETT:

– I think we've got one left on that plan to complete the plan.

I'm

going to ask Robyn Hayes if she knows what the total number of positions under

that plan were.

MS. HAYES:

The original attrition management plan, I believe it was 14 for Municipal

Affairs but where we combined with Fire and Emergency Services and Environment

the number is a bit larger.

Jamie

is correct, we do have one position left to complete our 2015-16 plan.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

How

many contractual employees have you had in the past year?

MR. CHIPPETT: I

think there may be two or three.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

Those are just some general questions I wanted to know

about.

Now I'll go to the Minister's Office, 1.1.01. I don't have

a lot here but if you could give me – what positions are included in the

Salaries under the Minister's Office? Have any of these been moved or what is

the variance here?

MR. CHIPPETT:

There are lower travel allowance costs for the minister. That's why there was a

decrease in the revised amount; otherwise, it's the minister, the EA and the

minister's secretary.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

That's all I have on that section.

I'll go to the General Administration,

section 1.2.01.

Again, in the Salaries line there's a huge variance there of over $500,000. I'll

just ask if you want to explain that.

MR. CHIPPETT:

Between the budget in '17-'18 and the revised number in 2017-18, primarily

reflected changes or payouts to either people who left or people that were

impacted through the management restructuring.

MR. K. PARSONS:

How many positions are

included in the amount? Do you know?

MR. CHIPPETT:

In the –

MR. K. PARSONS:

In the salary amounts there.

MR. CHIPPETT:

I'm trying to count them through in my head now.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

MR. CHIPPETT:

There's annual leave or severance or salary continuance payments for 10 in the

extra amount in the revised.

Robyn,

do you know that number?

MS. HAYES:

For 2018-19, there are 13 positions in Executive Support.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Thirteen positions.

Okay,

thank you.

I want

to go to the line Transportation and Communications. There's a variance there.

Also a reduction of the revised was $15,000. What's the reason for that?

MR. CHIPPETT:

That was basically less travel by the Executive.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Yeah.

MR. CHIPPETT:

The other influence on the $45,100 in Transportation and Communications and the

salary line actually in '18-'19 is Climate Change joined the department in

August of 2017. So it's a restatement of the Climate Change Executive salaries,

as well as some of their travel to Transportation and Communications.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

I want

to go to the line Provincial Revenue. Can you give me what's included here?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Sure. That's revenue for the position of CEO at the MMSB. The previous incumbent

in that position left the organization part-way through the last fiscal year. So

that's why the revenue is $117,000 rather than $169,000.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

Thank

you very much.

The

next one is

section 1.2.02, Administrative Support. Some areas – I should've

mentioned this in the first, and you can explain it – we went back and we looked

at the Estimates of last year's budget and the line that was approved in last

year's budget. I know there are explanations of why they changed but the actual

budget amount this year is different than what we actually voted on last year.

So there's a couple of questions there that I want to ask on that also.

Let's

go to the salary line first. Just give me a breakdown of what's there and why

there's such a big difference in there.

MR. CHIPPETT:

This is where we do the majority of funding for our co-op students and our

students. There is one reception position in there, front-desk position as well.

We've

maintained the budget for summer students in here, but the co-op students are

now going to be charged off to the various divisions in which they work because

it is more like a regular position than a summer student position. So you'll see

the co-op students being funded out of the individual divisions: water

resources, municipal infrastructure. These types of divisions frequently use

multiple co-op students during the appropriate terms.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

There

on the Transportation and Communications line, perhaps you can explain what the

variance is there.

MR. CHIPPETT:

The reduction there is actually when Environment joined Municipal Affairs and it

became Municipal Affairs and Environment, some of the Communications funding for

telephone lines and so on in Municipal Affairs, they're all booked in the

individual divisions. In Environment they were in one place in Admin Support. So

we actually moved those expenses out into the individual divisions as well.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

Now I

want to go to Purchased Services, and this is one of the lines I mentioned, that

last year what was actually budgeted and what's in the budget this year is

showing a good bit of difference actually and maybe you can explain that.

MR. CHIPPETT:

Sure. I think Transportation and Works had their Estimates already –

MR. K. PARSONS:

Yeah.

MR. CHIPPETT:

– but there's a re-statement in several of our budget lines pertaining to the

movement of all lease payments to the Department of Transportation and Works and

all expenses associated with the fleet in terms of both fuel and maintenance. In

several line items where we would have leases or vehicles, those statements

would be re-stated. The big difference here is actually one of our leases for

Fire and Emergency Services on Hallett Crescent.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

If you

go to the line Operating Accounts, that's a similar thing. Last year there was a

huge budget there and it has dropped a lot this year. Is that the same reason

for that?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Yes, that would be the same reason.

MR. K. PARSONS:

All right.

We'll

go to the next section,

section 1.2.03. Again, there's a decrease, a steady

decrease actually in revised and amount this year. Can you explain it, and what

positions are included in these amounts?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Was that the salary line that you were –?

MR. K. PARSONS:

Yes, salary line.

MR. CHIPPETT:

Okay. Sorry about that.

talked about planned savings earlier?

MR. K. PARSONS:

Yes.

MR. CHIPPETT:

We did shift some funding around to maintain a position within that division.

Then, the other piece was severance, annual leave and continuance payments for

three persons that were formerly in that division, but that were part of the

management restructuring in February of 2017.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay, I'll move on to the

next section.

In this

section I have a couple of general questions. I'd like to ask also about

relocation. Are there many people in looking for relocation? How many

communities?

MR. CHIPPETT:

There are two communities:

North Boat Harbour is one and the second one is La Poile. Little Bay Islands is

in the middle of the process.

MR. K. PARSONS:

I don't mind the crowd from

Bay of Islands trying to get out with a Member like they have too.

MR. CHIPPETT:

Snooks Arm relocation, I

think, is completed. That occurred through last year.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Is there money allocated for

any of this and where is it?

MR. CHIPPETT:

We've never allocated

funding for relocations that may occur because there's a lot of uncertainty in

those processes and there are multiple places where the process can stretch out.

As an example, we make residency determinations in the department on who would

be permanent residents.

There's

a two-step process if people aren't satisfied with that determination. If

they're not satisfied, the first step is an appeal to the minister. That's

handled through an independent commissioner. If there's a second appeal, it's

obviously to the courts.

Given

that it's very difficult to pin down exactly when we would be at the point of

paying out funds, we don't budget. It's often done through the contingency fund

in Finance or found from savings within the department.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Is there any money budgeted

for boundary changes or any amalgamation requests that are in place?

MR. CHIPPETT:

The Grants and Subsidies

line is basically for feasibility studies for any number of things. It could be

around amalgamation, it could be around boundary changes and so on. That's the

$88,500 in '18-'19.

CHAIR:

Ms. Rogers?

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you very much.

Thank

you very much for your time this morning and for your excellent work.

Just to

pick up where my colleague left off, the Amount to be Voted; in Revenue -

Provincial we see a significant change there in the Revised. What would that

revenue stream be from?

MR. CHIPPETT:

We're in 2.1.01 still, correct?

MS. ROGERS:

Yes.

MR. CHIPPETT:

That would be primarily revenue from appeal board processes where we would look

to charge back the cost. As an example, if somebody wanted, say, rezoning in a

protected road zone – and they requested, otherwise, we wouldn't be doing the

amendment – then we would charge back the cost for that hearing. The $6,000

basically reflects the fact that we didn't have a lot of those requests in

'17-'18.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay. That would come from

individuals and/or municipalities?

MR. CHIPPETT:

That's correct, but I think it would normally be individuals because you're

outside of municipal boundaries.

MS. ROGERS:

Great, thank you.

If we

move on to Policy and Strategic Planning, Salaries, 2.2.01, we see a difference

of $155,000 in '18-'19.

MR. CHIPPETT:

Right there we have a couple

of things that are happening; number one is in terms of the new attrition plans

that we've been asked to undertake. The reductions have been taken from one line

item and then the department is to work with the Human Resource Secretariat on

exactly where in the department we'd find those savings.

There's

no reduction in position per se there. This is one of the places where we have a

position that we've held vacant to fund other priorities in the department.

MS. ROGERS:

That position is now gone or

MR. CHIPPETT:

No, the position is still there.

MS. ROGERS:

But not filled?

MR. CHIPPETT:

The incumbent in it moved up in the same division as a manager and we've chosen

not to fill that particular position at this point in time. He holds the rights

to the position, so it's still there. If he goes back to it, obviously, we will

fund it at that point in time.

MS. ROGERS:

What kind of position is

that?

MR. CHIPPETT:

It's a policy analyst position.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay.

How

many policy analysts are now in that department?

MR. CHIPPETT:

I think it's four.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay, and that's –

MR. CHIPPETT: And

there are two managers of policy as well.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay.

That's four policy positions for all of Municipal Affairs

and Environment, is it?

MR. CHIPPETT: I

think that's right. Robyn?

MS. HAYES:

Four filled and one vacant (inaudible).

MS. ROGERS:

Great and two managers.

Thank

you.

Grants

and Subsidies: who gets this money? What is it specifically for? What kinds of

grants and subsidies?

MR. CHIPPETT:

These are more or less fixed expenditures every year.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay.

MR. CHIPPETT:

The major recipient there is the Conservation Corps. There's $147,000 of the

$169,100 that is an annual grant to the Conservation Corps. It's been the same

for some time.

The

other thing we do in that line item is we pay for our participation in certain

intergovernmental organizations; there's the New England Governors and Eastern

Canadian Premiers. We pay an amount based on our population, if you will, to

that. There's also a FPT committee on local governance that does research in

terms of urban and rural issues. We also pay an amount to that.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay. Thank you.

I have

nothing for Fire and Emergency Services, except if we go over to page 17.8,

2.3.02.

MR. CHIPPETT:

2.3.02?

MS. ROGERS:

The Revenue - Provincial;

there was a significant drop there and nothing budgeted for '18-'19? Can you

just explain that?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Sure. Again, speaking of intergovernmental organizations we're a part of, during

'16-'17 and a part of '17-'18 we were the provincial/territorial co-chair of the

emergency management table and there was funding that came along with that for a

position. As we transitioned – and Alberta is now the provincial/territorial

co-chair – that funding would be allocated to them. That's why there's nothing

allocated in '18-'19.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay, great.

Thank

you.

We had

a position at the table, a funded position, and now that has moved on. The

funding for that position has moved on?

MR. CHIPPETT:

It was more a support position.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay.

MR. CHIPPETT:

In terms of being the co-chair, we would be responsible for bringing material

together from various jurisdictions, agendas, and so on and so forth. So that

person assisted with those tasks, but we would always have an official present

at that table to discuss Newfoundland and Labrador's position as well.

MS. ROGERS:

Right. I can understand that. Thank you.

2.3.03,

we see an increase in Salaries there – under Disaster Assistance.

MR. CHIPPETT:

Yes.

MS. ROGERS:

Under Salaries we see an increase of $160,000.

MR. CHIPPETT:

Mm-hmm. So basically in this entire heading, you've got an interaction between

the Thanksgiving rain event, the Mud Lake flooding, and the West Coast flood

that occurred in January of 2017.

initially, you can see if you go right to left in that line, we had a number of

positions to deal with – the Thanksgiving rain event, Mud Lake flooding, we

really thought we were going to start to wind down. But obviously with the

Thanksgiving rain event occurring and the number of claims we would have from

there, we will be staffing up again to process those claims. So that's why you

see the $391,000.

MS. ROGERS:

And how are those claims going? Where are we at with those?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Just to give you a snapshot of the three different events, there were 43

private-sector claims for Mud Lake. We're up to I think 32 of those that are

closed out, or very close to being closed out. There's one municipal

infrastructure claim ongoing which we expect to be concluded this construction

season.

For the

Thanksgiving rain event, there were 244 private-sector claims; 243 are closed.

One is still ongoing because there's work that needs to happen in the spring.

There were 25 municipal claims and 13 are completed. One is done and awaiting

inspection to sign off on it being completed, and 11 are still in municipal

infrastructure mode. So there'll be more work done in this construction season.

And

last, the West Coast one, the most recent one, there's 113 private-sector claims

– I'm just trying to count the numbers – there were 19 closed, two cancelled, 28

were deemed ineligible under the guidelines, and the remaining are in various

stages of work – it could be with the adjuster; we could be waiting for more

documentation from the claimants. There have been 13 municipal claims received,

but we would expect the majority of that work to start in this upcoming

construction season.

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you.

Purchased Services, we see there was $3 million budgeted in '17-'18, $58,000

spent and nothing budgeted in '18-'19. Can you explain that?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Sure.

there was a re-profiling of funding there in terms of where we pay things out

for claims – it's probably useful to just give you the rundown on the different

line items. So for Allowances and Assistance you see there that's payments to

individuals. If an individual decides to settle their claim and take a cash

settlement, that goes out through Allowances and Assistance.

Purchased Services, the one you asked about, there would be a couple of expenses

normally in there. We would pay contractors who would be doing work. Sometimes

individuals would say we'll have you pay the contractor directly; they're going

to do the work on our property.

To your

question specifically, we had anticipated more people doing that in 2017-18, but

most people took cash settlements, so we actually re-profiled that funding to

Allowances and Assistance.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay.

MR. CHIPPETT:

You'll see that increase in

'17-'18.

Just to

continue with the lines, because they all change for basically the same reason,

Grants and Subsidies are how we pay out municipal claims and Professional

Services are the adjusters who go in and assess the damage to the property.

MS. ROGERS:

Great, thank you very much.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Section 2.1.01, I just have

a couple of more questions there on that section.

For the

Municipal Training Program, has there been any money budgeted for that?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Municipal Training Program?

MR. K. PARSONS:

Yes.

MR. CHIPPETT:

I know we do pay some money out in a later line item, Special Assistance –

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay, under Special

Assistance.

MR. CHIPPETT:

– to PMA, for example, and MNL in terms of training or events that they run.

Tara,

do you know where we might pay out municipal training?

OFFICIAL:

(Inaudible.)

MR. CHIPPETT:

Okay.

Actually, some of the municipal training is run out of Heather's division on

Municipal Infrastructure and Support and it's paid out through municipal

finance.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

Can you

provide an update on the urban rural planning act review?

MR. JOYCE:

We can answer it, but we're

trying to stick to the budget items itself.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

MR. JOYCE:

We're trying to stick to the

budget items; that's more of –

MR. K. PARSONS:

I'll have to ask you in the

House.

MR. JOYCE:

Yeah.

MR. K. PARSONS:

No problem.

I'd

like to, in this

section also, if you could, the Regional Appeal Boards. Can you

give an update what's happening with the Regional Appeal Boards and is there any

backlog on appeals?

MR. CHIPPETT:

We're doing okay from an

appeals perspective. The biggest issue with appeals is in eastern; there are 38.

That's not an uncommon number. The board is fully functioning, but there are

just a lot more appeals in the eastern region because you've got all the – well,

not all, but the majority of the larger towns that would have a lot of appeals

associated with that. There are 38 for that Appeal Board.

MR. K. PARSONS:

And they're meeting

regularly, are there?

MR. CHIPPETT:

They are, yes.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

Thank

you, that's all for that section.

Under

Fire and Emergency Services, can you give me an update on the 911? I know you

were doing some work on 911 and civic addressing and stuff like that. Is there

an update on that?

MR. JOYCE:

Again, we're going to stick

to the line items. That's more of a policy question.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

We'll

go to Regional and Financial Support,

section 3. Can you give us the variance on

the Salaries here on

section 01, Salaries? It is

section 3.1.01.

MR. CHIPPETT:

So the increase in the

revised line of '17-'18 was salary contingency payouts to individuals. Again,

part of the management restructuring that occurred in 2017 and then the slight

increase in '18-'19 is basically salary step increases.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Just looking here under

Purchased Services there, again, I would assume that's just vehicles and stuff

like that, the difference from last year, but can you explain the variance

that's here on this line, what the revised –?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Yes, that's leases, actually. I think it's primarily a lease we have in the old

Gander mall. Our Municipal Support office is in that space.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

Under

Revenue, what's included here?

MR. CHIPPETT:

So this is a memorandum of agreement we have with Nunatsiavut Government. We

provide support for infrastructure planning and engineering for Nunatsiavut

Government's capital projects. The variance you see is a late payment from them,

from the previous fiscal year, so that's why in the revised line you see double

the amount.

So we

would be back to providing an invoice for $160,000 for that service for this

fiscal year.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

Next

section, 3.1.02, again, I want to go to the salary line. There's a jump in the

revised and maybe you can just explain the variance there. What positions are

included in that?

MR. CHIPPETT:

So in Municipal Finance, to your first question, the increase is around salary

continuance for one person, and then secondly it's for severance and a leave

payout for a senior position in that department, a person left. So that's why

there was the increase.

terms of the positions here, this would basically be the administrative and

oversight functions for a number of funding programs that Municipal Affairs

operates. So municipal operating grants, CEEP and debt-servicing payments on

behalf of municipalities, would all be run through this particular group of

staff.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

Can I

get a list of who received grants in the special assistance, infrastructure

grants and small community grants? Would I be able to get a list of that for the

last year?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Yeah, sure.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay. Could I have it

because – I'd like to get it as soon as possible too, if you can give it to me.

Perfect, thank you.

All

right, moving on to

section 3.2.01, it's Waste Management. I have a general

question. I know there's a lot of talk about the cabin owners and stuff like

that in the news and stuff like that. Can you give me an update on the situation

with the cabin owners and garbage fees?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Consistently, the position

has been that under the Regional Service Boards Act, the boards are responsible

for how they charge the fees. There's a variance in fees across the province in

terms of how different boards deal with them, but it's certainly clear, if you

look at the act and the regulations associated with the Regional Service Boards

Act, it's clearly the responsibility

of the board.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

Is the

Citizens' Representative, that's who was dealing with this, right? Dealing with

a lot of the – if someone called me, for example, that's who I'd put them on to,

that's who's still doing the complaints right?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Yeah, the minister, last

year, actually added the Regional Service Board to the Office of the Citizens'

Representative, act, the annex, in terms of who's affected by it.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Yeah.

MR. CHIPPETT:

That's why it's now under his jurisdiction.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Yeah.

I know

that there are a lot of requirements coming with the department and some of the

deadlines are 2020 when it comes to municipalities and waste-water management. I

know there's been a fine lot of money go out and everything else. So where are

with the municipalities on that?

MR. JOYCE:

That's more of a policy

question. We can go through the budget items, the Estimates.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

Let's

go to the salary line then.

MR. CHIPPETT:

We spoke earlier about a

couple of temporary positions that work concluded on. We announced last year

that we were eliminating the limit of service policy for municipalities, which

was a lean initiative in the department and, as a result, we no longer needed a

computer programmer to oversee the limit of service policy. That's why we've got

the $65,000 decrease when it comes to the salary line.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

I want

to go to Grants and Subsidies. Again, can you let me know what's included here?

MR. CHIPPETT:

What's included here is, this is the third year of the pilot with Regional

Service Boards to fund regional operators for water and waste-water systems. So

there are a number of communities in Eastern, Central and Western where we

basically funded the Regional Service Board for a position, a vehicle and

operating funds to work with those communities on improving the operations of

their waste water and water systems.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

CHAIR:

Are you done?

MR. K. PARSONS:

Yeah.

CHAIR:

Ms. Rogers.

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you very much.

3.2.02,

(inaudible), can you tell me the variance and what it is?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Sure.

This is

Industrial Water Services, there used to be a lot of these in the province, that

the province is responsible for, associated with fish plants and the like. One

of the things you're seeing here is a decrease in revenue because we've been

working to divest of these systems.

MS. ROGERS:

Yes.

MR. CHIPPETT:

So as we divest of them, obviously, there's less revenue. In this case, as well,

there were some issues with collecting payments, so we may see an uptake in that

revenue in '18-'19.

Overall, we're down to two systems that we remain responsible for. One is in New

Harbour and one is Ramea. We'll always have the Ramea one because it would be

very costly because of the type of system they need, given we're dealing with a

saltwater environment and so on. It would be very costly to hand that over on a

cost-recovery basis, so we will always likely have that as part of the

department's operations.

MS. ROGERS:

Then some of the entities

where it was difficult to collect, is that being rectified or are payments

coming in?

MR. CHIPPETT:

We are trying to rectify that and it will likely be a part of the conclusion of

divesting of the New Harbour system.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay, thank you.

Municipal Debt Servicing, we see a variance there of a negative $726,000.

MR. CHIPPETT:

In 3.3.01 and the next heading, actually, in years past, before we started

issuing infrastructure grants, the department would be a part of issuing loans

to municipalities for infrastructure projects.

MS. ROGERS:

Yes.

MR. CHIPPETT:

So what this basically reflects is as we're paying down on those debts, the

charges associated with them and the principal in the next line item are

becoming less.

I think

there are around 96 communities who are involved in these two line items. I

think the year is 2023 when we're basically down to about $10,000 left on them.

So it's a fairly steep decline in the next number of years. That's why there's a

reduction.

MS. ROGERS:

That's a good (inaudible).

MR. CHIPPETT:

It is.

MS. ROGERS:

Great.

Thank

you.

3.3.04,

Special Assistance. We see an increase in the revised amount. Can you tell us a

little bit about what the Grants and Subsidies are for and why a big

unanticipated jump?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Sure. In terms of what Special Assistance is for, it's for emergency and small

capital needs in municipalities. It could be a water pump, it could be an

emergency repair to a road or to a sewer pipe or what have you.

terms of the variance in this line item in terms of '17-'18, I mentioned earlier

that we usually use savings or contingency fund for relocation. The relocation

amount paid out for Snook's Arm is why you see the increase to $4.3 million in

the Revised.

The

reason the '18-'19 estimate is lower than the original budget in '17-'18 is last

year was the last year that there was a payment to Wabush as a grant in lieu for

the closure of the Scully mine. So you see $636,000 come out of our budget

because of that.

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you.

Community Enhancement, in '17-'18 we see an increase. There was $400,000 not

spent. Was there a particular reason for that?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Sure. The cycle here is that sponsors apply for a project. They're provided

funding for various eligible costs and to employ people to undertake the

programs. Then as we get towards the last quarter of the year, in the fall you

expect projects to conclude and there's a final report that is due.

When we

get that final report, we review it to see if there are any penalties or

compliance issues. We review it to see if everything that was expended was

expended on eligible activities. Because those reports can be late coming out

and we have a holdback associated with each project, if everything is not in

order we may not get all of that funding out in a given year.

MS. ROGERS:

Yes. Would that be a few

different projects or is that one main, large one?

MR. CHIPPETT:

That would be a fair number of projects.

Heather, any idea what the number in a year project-wise would be?

MS. TIZZARD:

For that $400,000?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Or for just general

(inaudible) through CEEP.

MS. TIZZARD:

Not off the top of my head –

MR. CHIPPETT:

No? Okay.

would be a large number of projects, though.

MS. ROGERS:

When you look at this it's a

pretty good completion rate, though, in terms of the amount of money that's

allocated.

MR. CHIPPETT:

We think so.

MS. ROGERS:

Great. Yeah.

Thank

you.

What

kinds of projects would that cover, the Community Enhancement?

MS. TIZZARD:

The projects are usually

anything that enhances a community, basically. We like to see some of the

projects take place outdoors but also have an indoor component. So you might see

anything from generating recreational activities and programs to some minor

infrastructure repairs, maintenance, some painting, repairs and upkeep.

Sometimes some small tourism structures are developed in the community;

pathways, community centres, all that sort of thing that keeps people employed

and enhances the community they're in.

MS. ROGERS:

Great.

Thank

you.

3.4.01

Municipal Infrastructure. In the revised amount we see a negative $200,000

there.

MR. CHIPPETT:

What line item? Sorry, I missed the line.

MS. ROGERS:

That's okay.

3.4.01,

under Municipal Infrastructure, Salaries.

MR. CHIPPETT:

The decrease there is based on just recruitments associated with various

positions.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay.

The

positions are staying vacant a little bit longer. Is that it?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Yeah, basically, but the majority of those positions I'm sure would be filled in

due course.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay, thank you.

How

many positions would that be, approximately?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Vacant?

MS. ROGERS:

I know initially, at the

beginning there, we had a number of how many –

MR. CHIPPETT:

I think there are six. Six

of the original total would be vacancies here.

MS. ROGERS:

Do you anticipate those

being filled?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Yes.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay, thank you.

Professional Services, we see a drop from budget '17-'18 to budget '18-'19 of

$50,000.

MR. CHIPPETT:

Professional Services there,

part of the funding here was for the two RFPs that the department issued to

review two elements of the Waste Management Strategy. That's why the decrease,

all that funding is not required in the upcoming year.

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you.

Revenue

from the province, we expect no revenue there. That revenue would come from?

MR. CHIPPETT:

The answer to that one is

very similar to the previous answer. There was $100,000 provided by the

Multi-Materials Stewardship Board towards those two studies on the Waste

Management Strategy.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay, thank you.

3.4.02,

Federal/Provincial Infrastructure Programs. Grants and Subsidies, the revised

amount is less $15.1 million.

MR. CHIPPETT:

The $101 million down to the

$86 million and then the $87 million, primarily reflects the progress of

infrastructure projects. You would have a number of things going on in that

number. As an example, there would be projects that would be stretched out for

unknown reasons. If there's an issue with site work, as an example, you

encounter something you don't expect, that funding would be carried forward to

the next year.

projects are starting – the new projects you're announcing – the year that you

announce them in there's a very small cash flow. If there's a very short cash

flow the year after you're into a full construction season, the number could go

up. That's basically what you're seeing in that line item, is the variance in

cash flows for infrastructure.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay, thank you.

I would

imagine that might be the same for the federal revenue line item, would it be?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Exactly.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay.

Thank

you very much.

CHAIR:

Minister.

MR. JOYCE:

I don't know what the

procedure is, but I see the Member for Mount Pearl - Southlands, I don't know if

you're into it, but if you want to stay around after, if you could ask

questions, we'll entertain a slot for the Member for Mount Pearl - Southlands,

if you wanted to ask some questions because I know you're into municipal

government. I don't know if you're a part of this or how this works now, but if

you want to stick after and have a 15-minute slot to ask on the Estimates, we're

more than open to allow that, if you want.

MR. LANE:

Thank you, Minister.

Actually, what we've been doing with all the other Estimates, my colleagues here

go twice and then I get once. That's what they've been doing.

MR. JOYCE:

Okay, I wasn't sure.

MR. LANE:

Yeah, I appreciate that.

Minister, I do have some questions, to be honest, but if we're just coming to

the line-by-line estimates, I'll just let my colleagues carry on because the

questions I had were more – you've been saying policy. I had just some questions

about progress of the NEAR plan,

Municipalities Act , cities act, the regional government – where we're moving

with that – waste management, and a couple of questions about with the disasters

and increasing the size of pipes and stuff like that, if we're not entertaining

those type of questions –

MR. JOYCE:

We're not.

MR. LANE:

You're not, right?

MR. JOYCE:

No.

MR. LANE:

So I'll just let my

colleagues carry on, anybody can ask these other questions and I can listen and

write in the variances and stuff.

CHAIR:

Okay, thank you, Mr. Lane.

Mr.

Parsons.

MR. LANE:

Mr. Parsons, go ahead.

MR. K. PARSONS:

I don't know if you're going

to answer it or not, but under

section 3.2.01, and I think this is where a lot

of the boil-order advisories and stuff like that are –

MR. JOYCE:

Pardon me? One second now.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay,

section 3.2.01,

Municipal Infrastructure and Waste Management.

MR. JOYCE:

3.2.01, yes.

MR. K. PARSONS:

I'm just wondering, under

this

section I know there are a lot of boil orders in the province, and I'm just

wondering where they're to, where the money is that we put into boil orders and

stuff like that, and how's it working, basically.

MR. JOYCE:

Well, we'll explain what

money we've got into it, but we're not getting into the policy of –

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay, yeah.

MR. CHIPPETT:

So this

section we talked earlier about the $232,500.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Yeah.

MR. CHIPPETT:

So that's in part directed to address boil-water advisories. Often there's an

operational component to why there is a boil-water advisory, so assisting

smaller municipalities who could not afford to employ an operator by granting

money to have the regional service board employ a regional operator, that's a

component.

The

other place you would see budgeted along this would be later on in the Water

resources

section of the Environment part of the department.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

Let's

go to Infrastructure,

section 3.4.03, the first line, can you just give us the

variances on the Salaries on here please?

MR. CHIPPETT:

3.4.03, right?

MR. K. PARSONS:

Yes, Canada/Newfoundland gas

tax.

MR. CHIPPETT:

This is the administration

of the federal gas tax program and the variances there are primarily related to

step increases for the individuals in that division.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

Under

Transportation and Communications, I know that you're gone back to the budgeted

and estimated this year but why is the revised – what's the variance there? The

revised is $6,000.

MR. CHIPPETT:

The $6,000 was just a result

of reduced travel in that division.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

What's

included in the Professional Services line there, and why is it more this year?

MR. CHIPPETT:

I know generally there was

some shifting of funding within the line items here to better reflect our

zero-based budgeting submission.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

MR. CHIPPETT:

Professional Services, I'm

thinking it might be for auditing and those types of things.

MS. TIZZARD:

And some work we were

looking at doing with respect to some asset management work with municipalities.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

Just a

general question for Purchased Services: What other services would you need here

on that line also?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Could you tell me the line

item again?

MR. K. PARSONS:

The line item is Purchased

Services and I just want to know what's included. There is a little small

variance, but I'm just wondering why it's $3,500 revised.

MR. CHIPPETT:

You'd be thinking about

things like equipment rental, copiers and so on in that line item.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

On the

Grants and Subsidies, why the variance in this line and what's included in it?

MR. CHIPPETT:

This is not unlike the

answer to the infrastructure cash flow variances. The difference here is that

there are accountability requirements for municipalities when they submit. The

first thing they need to do is submit a capital investment plan. That capital

investment plan is reviewed by staff for eligibility and so on. Sometimes those

plans don't come in, or they don't come in on time or there are issues with them

that require back and forth with the community. That's part of what would impact

how much money goes out the door.

The

second piece is there are accountability requirements that municipalities have

to meet in terms of final reports and so on. It's really a variance based on

those initiatives or those issues. Then in terms of the amount being higher

again in '18-'19, it's really the carryover of that funding. This is really

we're doing a flow-through function on behalf of the federal government, so we

have the staff but the revenue covers the staff and the revenues flow through us

to municipalities. We always get that money in the following year because it's

stipulated in the agreement that we'll get the overall allocation for the

province.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

Go to

section 3.4.04, Grants and Subsidies: How many applications did you get last

year?

MR. CHIPPETT:

I don't know that number right off the top of my head. I know that it

drastically – it outpaces the budget every year.

Minister, I don't know if you recall the number of fire and emergency

applications we had this year?

MR. JOYCE:

There were hundreds of

applications and also this here includes the fire trucks itself. I think we have

70, 72 or something for fire truck applications.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Seventy-two for the fire

trucks?

MR. JOYCE:

Yeah.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay.

How

many fire trucks did we have approved last year?

MR. JOYCE:

Seven?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Seven.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Seven, okay.

Is that

a reduction? That's a good reduction though in what we've done in the last

number of years, isn't it? With the –?

MR. JOYCE:

No, the year before we did

the same amount, but just two years prior I think there was an increase in

funding up to $5 million to give out 20 a year or something.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay, all right.

The new

cost-sharing ratio with the program – like with municipalities, you know how we

discussed it before – so under this there are still basically the same amount of

applications that we're getting regularly.

MR. JOYCE:

There's no decrease in the

applications and the funding.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Okay. That's all I have on

the line-for-line items.

CHAIR:

Ms. Rogers.

MS. ROGERS:

Under 4.1.01, Pollution

Prevention, page 17.15, we see a revised reduction in '17-'18 of $66,000 in

Salaries.

MR. CHIPPETT:

There was a salary

continuance for one person, but there were also vacancies that have since been

filled.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay. Thank you.

Professional Services we see an increase. What kinds of professional services

would be included there and what is the big increase expected for?

MR. CHIPPETT:

The Professional Services

here are primarily associated with either a contaminated site assessment or

cleanup. In the instance you referenced with the increase to $518,000, a number

of the midline radar sites in Labrador, we're working on a fairly significant

intergovernmental agreement with the federal government to clean up those sites.

But a prerequisite to that agreement is actually doing formal site assessments

on the sites.

You see

the $518,000 in our line item. The federal government has also committed, on

their own, to spend another $500,000. So it's going to be about a million

dollars' worth of assessments done which hopefully will contribute to a very

successful intergovernmental agreement.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay. Thank you.

There's

a variance there in the provincial revenue. Is that also related to MMSB?

MR. CHIPPETT:

The revenue here is related

to approvals that this division would give to industry primarily, or fees for

various services that the department provides. Some examples of that: If you're

looking for a property search – you're going to buy a property, you want to know

whether or not there's been a spill on it or there are any environmental orders

around it – there's a fee for that. For example, the refinery has a five-year

certificate of approval and it's renegotiated at the end of the five years.

There's a charge for that.

The

reason you see the increase in '18-'19 is we're just aware of some significant

kind of renewals that are coming up. We predict it will be somewhere in the

order of $263,000 that you see there.

MS. ROGERS:

What would those be? In what

area are the renewals?

MR. CHIPPETT:

I guess the biggest example would be the refinery. There are other services the

department does as part of an intergovernmental arrangement. For example, we

have staff who are accredited from a lab certification perspective. As a part of

our involvement in the federal-provincial network, we provide laboratory

inspections on behalf of the national accreditation group. I think we do them

for the City of St. John's, potentially Nalcor; there are two or three big ones

anyway. I think they're $20,000 each or something like that.

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you.

Water

Resources Management, 4.2.01, under Salaries we saw an increase there of

$249,000 and that's being maintained.

MR. CHIPPETT:

We spoke, I think, under the financial administration heading earlier, the

General Administration heading for the department, that we had re-profiled some

funding from there.

MS. ROGERS:

Yes.

MR. CHIPPETT:

When I referenced to maintain a position in a different part of the department

it was actually in this part of the department. It was geared towards some of

the places you'll see increased funding in these line items, primarily

toward flood-risk mapping. That's a part of it. There are no vacancies here, so

we've filled any vacancies that we've had as well.

MS. ROGERS:

Great. Thank you.

Under Professional Services we see an increase there. Can

you tell me what you expect there?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Sure.

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you.

MR. CHIPPETT:

There are two or three different things going on there. The biggest thing is

related to a million dollars for flood-risk mapping for the Lower Churchill

River for Mud Lake and Lake Melville. We're working on an intergovernmental

agreement with the federal government for new updated flood-risk maps for a

couple of significant areas in the province.

We're also working on mapping. We call it inundation

mapping. Basically what it is, if a municipality has a water supply with a dam,

obviously, one of the pieces of due diligence you would do is ensure you

understood how a failure in

the dam could impact the area. This inundation mapping is another project we're

working on there. We've managed to obtain some new funding to do those pieces of

work.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay. Thank you.

The $1

million for flood-risk mapping includes Mud Lake and a few other areas? What

were the other areas again?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Yeah, the other areas are still under discussion with the federal government.

We've got a number of proposals with them, but given the priority placed on Mud

Lake and Lake Melville, the province is proceeding to make sure that work gets

done quickly.

MS. ROGERS:

What's the timeline expected

for that?

MR. CHIPPETT:

We expect to have it all done within this fiscal year. The goal is to have it

done before we get into spring and ice breakup next year.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay. Thank you very much.

If we

moved on to Environmental Assessment, 4.3.01, we see a drop in Salaries of

$92,000. Then there was –

MR. CHIPPETT:

So the –

MS. ROGERS:

Sorry.

MR. CHIPPETT:

The drop in salaries there, you see it went up initially because of salary

continuance in the revised number. There was also a fair amount of overtime

associated with one of our environmental monitor positions.

One of

the things that government stipulated with the third transmission line being

built to come into the Avalon was that there be an environmental monitor in

place for the part of the construction that occurred within the Bay du Nord

Wilderness Reserve. That's why you see it go to the $973,000.

Then,

part of what you're seeing in the '18-'19 number is a reduction in funding

associated with a position that was monitoring construction of the

Labrador-Island Transmission Link Project. That project now has been completed;

there's no need for that monitor right now. But when decommissioning and a few

things like that happen, we'll probably put somebody back in. That's why there's

a decrease.

MS. ROGERS:

Were there any reports that

came out of that position, in the environmental monitoring?

MR. CHIPPETT:

There were regular reports. The person spent basically, I would think, a very

high percentage of their time on the ground. So there's any number of reports,

inspections and so on that were done.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay.

And

those are available in public?

MR. CHIPPETT:

I don't know if we put them

out there publicly, but I don't see why we wouldn't.

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you.

Transportation and Communications, significant reduction there for the

percentage there, in the revised amount.

MR. CHIPPETT:

I wasn't sure if there was a

restatement like in some of the other items; I didn't think there would be. So

it was just a reduced amount of travel required.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay, thank you.

Climate

Change, if we can move on to that, 5.1.01 and we see a reduction there of

$206,000 in Salaries.

MR. CHIPPETT:

I mentioned earlier that Climate Change came into the Department of Municipal

Affairs and Environment in August of 2017.

MS. ROGERS:

Yes.

MR. CHIPPETT:

The biggest difference in

those numbers is the assistant deputy minister and her administrative support

position would actually be up in one of the first headings we actually

discussed, which is the Executive Support line. That's why that number is lower;

their salaries are moved to that other part of the department.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay, great. Thank you.

Professional Services, we see nothing estimated for this year.

MR. CHIPPETT:

There were specific projects that were funded through last year's Professional

Services. A couple of examples: We had our climate change projections revised,

you do that every so often; we had Engineers Canada run a workshop for

engineering professionals in the province to talk about and provide some

training on the integration of climate change modelling projections, and so on,

into infrastructure design. In our zero-based budgeting we had identified those

things the year before.

There's

no funding there now but we would look to fund anything specific that came up

through savings in other parts of the department, but there's nothing

specifically identified right now.

CHAIR:

Mr. Petten.

The

time has expired.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you.

Under

4.2.01, Water Resources Management – I'm not sure if my colleague asked this or

not, but the Purchased Services line, fluctuation of –

MR. CHIPPETT:

Purchased Services?

MR. PETTEN:

It's up to $825,000 this

year, from $254,000.

MR. CHIPPETT:

The $825,500, is that –?

MR. PETTEN:

Yes.

MR. CHIPPETT:

The Purchased Services, a couple of things going on there as well. Government

announced in February that we had increased the number of monitoring sites on

the Churchill River, so a portion of that funding is related to that. Then a

portion of the provincial revenue as well, because Nalcor pays for the stations

MR. PETTEN:

Right.

MR. CHIPPETT:

– but they are run and

monitored and the data collected by our staff in Water Resources – not unlike

what we do with a lot of other large industrial proponents. There is some

operational funding in here as well, in terms of imagery that the department

needs to acquire to do flood forecasting and ice monitoring for Lower Churchill.

So satellite imagery, for example, from C-CORE, not unlike what we get for

Badger – and I think you'd be familiar with the model in Badger. Similarly, we

need to be able to acquire that ice imagery from C-CORE for the Lower Churchill

River.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

MR. CHIPPETT:

So that's the increase in that line.

MR. PETTEN:

So this federal revenue line

there, federal and provincial, what's included in these?

MR. CHIPPETT:

So the federal $490,000 reference there, that's the anticipated funding for

cost-sharing flood risk mapping in other areas. I mentioned on the Mud Lake

stuff, given the timelines involved and priority on it, we're doing that one

ourselves, but that's to cover half of the flood risk mapping studies and so on

that we hope to do on the Island.

MR. PETTEN:

So the provincial portion is

for the same –?

MR. CHIPPETT:

It's a 50/50 split under the National Disaster Mitigation Program.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

4.2.02,

Transportation and Communications – not a big decrease, but is there any reason

why?

MR. CHIPPETT:

So the Water Quality Agreement is what we call a programmed budget area.

Basically there has been money moved around in several areas here to line up

with the zero-based budget submission for this group. So you can imagine if

you're measuring water quality, supplies, it various from year to year. You

might buy a new piece of equipment one year, from a testing perspective, a

higher quality probe; the following year, you wouldn't need to buy it. So it's

basically money moved around within that line item.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

And

what about federal-provincial revenue there as well?

MR. CHIPPETT:

So the provincial revenue is primarily driven – I'll start with federal revenue.

So water quality is managed, or monitored rather, not only by the department in

drinking water supplies, but in a subset of lakes and ponds in the province. So

the ambient water quality in those are measured. The federal government is also

interested in that data, so they cost share that monitoring with us.

terms of the revenue from a provincial perspective, it's really 35 stations that

we have in various areas of the province to monitor industry. Some examples:

Deer Lake Power, Long Harbour, Tata Steel, any mining project, really. This is

where, again, we operate and monitor, but they have certain commitments,

including financial. So that's the provincial money that comes into the

province.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

Purchased Services, what would be included in Purchased Services – this

division?

MR. CHIPPETT:

So Purchased Services – I'll just give you some examples from our zero-based

budgeting. Lab analyses – I should have known that without having to look – the

lab analyses piece of it. So if you're collecting samples in certain areas or

whatever, there are fees in terms of having those samples analyzed at a lab. So

that's the majority; there may be rentals in terms of storage units, or boat

rentals in a certain area. So basically, your general areas.

I would

note there's a training and development component as well. Obviously, staff are

working around water and sometimes fast-moving water, so there's a component

there for training as well.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

Under

5.1.02 – this is a new section, of course. What are the revenue lines? What is

the full – I suppose really the Grants and Subsidies and the federal revenue.

What's this? Can you offer some details on that?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Sure. As a part of the

pan-Canadian framework on climate change, the federal government released the

details of a low carbon economy fund. There's a base-plus per capita allocation

for every province. In Newfoundland and Labrador that allocation is $44.7

million.

What

this is – I will just run down through each line item. In Salaries, the $300,000

is the per cent we use from that funding to administer the fund. When you

include the provincial matching portion over four years, it's nearly $90

million. So the reason these numbers are not of that scope is because it's the

first year of cash flows.

We're

working right now to finalize the agreement with the federal government and

we've got numerous proposals with them that would target various segments of the

population or the economy to assist with transitioning to a low carbon economy.

MR. PETTEN:

The Grants and Subsidies,

who would receive those?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Without the proposals approved, I'm hesitant to speak to the specifics.

I'm

just thinking about the proposals, it could be individuals, it could be

companies and the kinds of things we've been talking about, include energy

efficiency, obviously, not only from a homeowner perspective, from a

transportation industry perspective. So numerous different segments of the

population would benefit.

MR. PETTEN:

5.1.01, Climate Change.

Forgive me if I missed it because I was (inaudible) my colleagues were asking.

Grants

and Subsidies, there's a big increase of a million dollars. What is the reason

for that?

MR. CHIPPETT:

This is a program that was announced in October, the Energy Efficiency Loan

Program. This is where people can go to look at energy efficiency upgrades.

Really, the primary interest is around heat pumps and so on.

It was

launched in October, which was a little bit beyond normal construction season

and when people are doing renovations and so on. The uptake was lower than we

expected, and we see the $225,000 that was spent, but we've got the full year

now, and there was an increase of a million dollars in the budget.

MR. PETTEN:

This will be a

year-over-year thing, or is that decided each –

MR. CHIPPETT:

I think it's – how long does the 1.5 continue for, Gerald?

So this

year and next year is the time frame so far.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay, thanks.

CHAIR:

Ms. Rogers.

MS. ROGERS:

If we go back to Climate

Change 5.1.02. When do you see that up and running?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Some time this fiscal year.

terms of the steps we'd have to take, number one is sign the agreement. We've

got some basic program design done in terms of the segments of the population we

want to target and generally how it would assist in reducing greenhouse gases

and so on, but we would have to do the detailed program design, logistics around

application processes and so on.

That's

the work that remains to be done, but certainly our goal is to get to the point

where we're obviously spending some of that money in this fiscal year.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay, thank you.

For the

Climate Change Action Plan, can we get an update on the work that's being done

there?

MR. CHIPPETT:

Sure. The department's been through a significant interdepartmental consultation

process, because obviously there will be commitments that pertain to different

areas of operation for government, but also a very significant consultation

process with industry. So we anticipate the release of that plan in the fairly

near future.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay, thank you.

And

that will also include the province's approach to carbon tax and what we're

going to do as a province in that area?

CHAIR:

Minister.

MR. JOYCE:

Once again, that's policy. We're going through the budget items here.

MS. ROGERS:

Okay.

Thank

you. I have no further questions. Thank you very much.

Thank

you very much for answering the questions we were able to ask, and we appreciate

that. Thank you for your time.

CHAIR:

Mr. Petten.

MR. PETTEN:

Yes, the same here. I just

want to thank you for your answers and the staff for your time.

Thank

you very much.

CHAIR:

Okay. Since there are no

further questions, I now ask the Clerk to recall 1.1.01.

CLERK:

1.1.01 to 5.1.02 inclusive.

CHAIR:

Shall 1.1.01 to 5.1.02

inclusive carry?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

motion, subheads 1.1.01 through 5.1.02 carried.

CLERK:

Total.

CHAIR:

Shall the total carry?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

motion, Department of Municipal Affairs and Environment, total heads, carried.

CHAIR:

Shall I report the Estimates

of the Department of Municipal Affairs and Environment carried without

amendment?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

motion, Estimates of the Department of Municipal Affairs and Environment carried

without amendment.

CHAIR:

We have minutes from the

last meeting that we need to pass.

I call

for a motion to approve the minutes from the April 17 meeting.

MR. WARR:

So moved.

CHAIR:

Mr. Warr.

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR:

The next meeting for the

Social Services Committee will on the evening of April 25.

I now

ask for a motion to adjourn.

MR. A. PARSONS:

So moved.

CHAIR:

Thank you so much.

motion, the Committee adjourned.