First Session, 42nd Parliament

(2020) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Thursday, December 17, 2020

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 13

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Statements (Standing Order 25B)

Caprice White Rock theatre

T. Halford

Food security and food hamper services in Nelson-Creston area

B. Anderson

Wildlife and habitat restoration in East Kootenays

T. Shypitka

District of Mission community service award recipients

P. Alexis

Service of Legislature staff during COVID-19

S. Furstenau

Guru Nanak’s Free Kitchen

A. Singh

Oral Questions

COVID-19 response for disability and income assistance recipients

S. Bond

Hon. N. Simons

D. Davies

COVID-19 response for small businesses

A. Olsen

Hon. R. Kahlon

Budget process changes

M. de Jong

Hon. S. Robinson

COVID-19 impact on services for special needs children and youth and report recommendations

J. Tegart

Hon. M. Dean

Child care funding

K. Kirkpatrick

Hon. K. Chen

COVID-19 response for small businesses

T. Stone

Hon. R. Kahlon

COVID-19 response for tourism industry and report recommendations

T. Wat

Hon. M. Mark

Government action on opioid crisis

S. Cadieux

Hon. S. Malcolmson

Petitions

A. Olsen

Hon. N. Simons

Tabling Documents

Economic and fiscal update, fall 2020

Orders of the Day

Committee of Supply

Supplementary Estimates (No. 3): Other appropriations

(continued)

A. Olsen

Hon. S. Robinson

M. Bernier

THURSDAY, DECEMBER 17, 2020

The House met at 10:05 a.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: T. Wat.

Mr. Speaker: Members, we will be doing the introductions. As you know, introductions

are a very important part of our daily proceedings. But I want to caution

members before we start that introductions are supposed to be very brief — not

more than 30 seconds.

In the last few days, we have seen some introductions that became a

two-minute statement and, in some cases, even a private member’s

statement.

Please be careful. I don’t want to interject when you’re making

introductions. So keep that in mind.

Introductions by Members

B. Banman: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will keep this very brief.

It is my pleasure to introduce Travis Len McIntosh, one of the newest

members of Abbotsford, who is the son of Dave and Gillian McIntosh. His

mother got to meet him for the first time. She was the one that was induced

and then put into coma due to COVID. I just want to say a very merry

Christmas to the McIntosh family and wish his mother a speedy

recovery.

I. Paton: This morning, the last day in the Legislature here in Victoria, I just

want to do a shout-out to the great organizations in my riding of Delta

South. We have the Ladner Business Association. We have the Tsawwassen

Business Improvement Association. We have the Delta Chamber of Commerce and

also the city of Delta.

The city of Delta has done some wonderful things during this COVID

time with amending bylaws for small businesses and restaurants to be able to

move out into their parking lots and put up tents to keep their businesses

going. The Ladner Business Association and groups such as that have done an

unbelievable job at this Christmas season. I’ve never seen so many beautiful

lights in our trees throughout the villages of Ladner and

Tsawwassen.

They also do such wonderful things during the year in our community —

the Ladner Village Market, the annual car show, the Tour de Delta, the

Tsawwassen Sun Festival and parade, the Ladner May Days and the Boundary Bay

Airshow. Thank you so much to all the great groups that have helped us to

get through this COVID area and helped to give our small businesses a

fighting chance through these trying times in the last eight or nine

months.

Hon. K. Chen: This morning I dropped by the Society to End Homelessness in Burnaby’s

outreach resource centre for their year-end Christmas outreach. It’s

actually in the Speaker’s riding, so I brought greetings on your

behalf.

I want to recognize all the non-profits and food banks in our

community that have served so many families, including the Society to End

Homelessness; North Burnaby Neighbourhood House; and Ryan’s Rainbow, where I

volunteered, whenever I could, every Thursday since the beginning of the

pandemic.

I’ve learned so much from them and also from the families they serve,

as they share with me their stories. Together, we’re really like a big

family here in Burnaby. Thank you to all the volunteers and groups out there

across B.C. communities for supporting so many of our neighbours in need

during this challenging time.

A. Mercier: I’d like to introduce my younger sister, Emily Mercier, who’s watching

the proceedings virtually today.

[10:10 a.m.]

Emily has decided, at 27 years old, to finally move out of our

parents’ house. She’s joined the RCMP, and she heads off to Depot on January

Would the House please join me wishing her luck in her new

career.

Hon. S. Robinson: Yesterday we forgot to wish one of our newer members of our caucus a

happy birthday. The Minister for Municipal Affairs had a birthday yesterday,

and today is her birthday in the House. Can everyone please join me in

wishing her a belated happy birthday.

Statements

(Standing Order 25B)

CAPRICE WHITE ROCK THEATRE

T. Halford: One of my best childhood memories was going to see the movie

E.T. It was at the Clova Theatre in Cloverdale, a small

little theatre. The floors were sticky. The chairs were worn, but it was

still majestic to me at the time. A lot of our theatres have been

replaced by larger ones that have the technology to keep up with the

movies, but a few of these gems still do exist, and one of those gems is

in my riding. We had two; one closed down. The Rialto closed down about

three months ago, but the Caprice is still there.

This is a theatre that has been owned, in the family, for over 24

years by the Manji family. They are struggling right now, and they are

finding ways to keep open. One of those ways is offering popcorn. Every

Friday and Saturday, the Manji family is opening their theatres, and

they’re selling popcorn.

Last week my daughter and my house have instituted a have-fun

Friday. Have-fun Friday is mandatory. Everybody is in the house. Phones

are off. Takeout — usually her choice, which can be debatable sometimes,

and a movie.

Last week I went and picked up popcorn at the Caprice, and I was

proud to say it was lined up around the block. That made me so happy and

proud of my community. I want to make sure that we’re all finding ways

to support our local businesses, to make sure that they’re there for us

tomorrow, but we need to be there for them today.

I want to thank the Manji family for being so creative, and I will

be there tomorrow to get our popcorn.

FOOD SECURITY AND FOOD HAMPER

SERVICES IN

NELSON-CRESTON AREA

B. Anderson: I would like to share the important work so many people are doing

in communities across the Nelson-Creston riding to ensure everyone has

access to nutritious food. We know this year has been hard on so many

people in our community, and the holidays are an especially challenging

time for our communities’ most vulnerable. I am grateful to share some

of the inspiring work being done by organizations and individuals across

my constituency to ensure everyone has access to good food this holiday

season.

Some of these initiatives provide year-round support to community,

while others step up for the holidays. These organizations provide a

range of services such as hot lunch programs, Meals on Wheels for

seniors, food bank services, community gardens, cooking programs,

Harvest Share and holiday hampers.

In the expansive riding of Nelson-Creston, several organizations

provide these important services, including: the Kaslo Food Cupboard,

Salmo community service, the Creston Ministerial Association, Creston

Valley Gleaners, Valley Community Services, East Shore food hamper

program, the South Kootenay Lake Community Services Society, the Nelson

Community Food Centre, Our Daily Bread, the Salvation Army, the West

Kootenay EcoSociety and the Nelson Youth Centre. We’re truly blessed to

have so many organizations supporting our communities.

In rural areas, we rely on the goodwill and neighbours helping

neighbours. These initiatives rely on private donations, student-led

projects, the generosity of local businesses and grants to be able to

provide to those in need. Those are only a few of the very important

initiatives that are happening across my constituency this holiday

season.

Please join me in thanking all of the amazing volunteers and

service providers who make sure that everyone has a joyful holiday

season.

[10:15 a.m.]

WILDLIFE AND HABITAT RESTORATION

IN EAST

KOOTENAYS

T. Shypitka: We as British Columbians put a value on our forests, minerals, oil

and gas, but we put no value on perhaps our greatest resource of them

all: our wildlife and habitat. There is no example of this that is more

grossly obvious around our province than in my riding of Kootenay

East.

At one time, the East Kootenays we were referred to as the

Serengeti of North America, home to the most diverse populations of

predator and prey on our continent, but no longer. We still have

diversity. However, our population numbers have plummeted. So how do we

prioritize wildlife and habitat in the province?

For starters, I want to celebrate all of our strong stewards of

the land across the province. I’m talking about our regional biologists,

our hunters, trappers, guide-outfitters and wildlife enthusiasts who all

want the exact same thing, and that is to restore our wildlife

populations and habitat to where they need to be in order to enjoy the

beauty and recreation that we all deserve. In a concerted effort, these

fine stewards will work with government and First Nations to make

decisions that are specific to their regions of this massively diverse

province in a way that is science-based and culturally practised for

hundreds of years, if not thousands.

Finally, we need political will and an independent funding model

dedicated to wildlife and habitat that will ensure that this priority

will be with us for many generations to come.

In closing, I would like to say that this is not radical thinking.

Many jurisdictions have done this with great success. However, to my

knowledge, no government in our province’s history has ever been able to

accomplish what I’m suggesting. I know we have enough bright minds in

this House to do it. I invite this entire Legislature to open your ears

and minds to this enormous issue and to please put wildlife and habitat

high on your list of priorities in order for a stronger British Columbia

now and in the future.

DISTRICT OF MISSION

COMMUNITY SERVICE AWARD

RECIPIENTS

P. Alexis: Today I want to take a moment to recognize the incredible

volunteers from my riding of Abbotsford-Mission who have continued to

support our community throughout the pandemic. For many, many years, the

District of Mission Community Service Awards have recognized those who

have demonstrated exemplary volunteer service within the Mission

community. I can tell you that the volunteers that have stepped up

during this difficult time have been outstanding.

Recently the district of Mission hosted a virtual celebration for

the 2020 award recipients, which I had the privilege of participating

in. I have actually been very fortunate to know many of them personally

through a number of different events and organizations that I’ve worked

on with them.

I hope that the House will indulge me as I read out their names:

Rocky Blondin; Dr. Carol Pomeroy; the Stave Valley Salmonid Enhancement

Society; Sebastien On­yemaobi; St. Joseph’s Food Bank and its

volunteers; Simone Redburn; Brenda Davison; Jean-Pierre Maher; Mission

Health Care Auxiliary Society, celebrating its 100th birthday; Jim

Hinds; Dwight Elliott; Andrew Hale; Helen Yannacopoulos; John Glendon

Flett, presented posthumously; Mission Community Services Society Food

Centre and Christmas Bureau and its volunteers; Angel Elias; the

Mennonite Central Committee thrift shop volunteers; Bert Pulles; Elke

Katzenbach; Dr. Peter Robson; and, finally, Lloyd Rash and Ken

Selvaraja, who were presented the Freeman of the City award this

year.

I want to acknowledge all the volunteers in both communities of

Abbotsford and Mission for their exemplary work throughout this entire

certainly challenging time.

SERVICE OF LEGISLATURE STAFF

DURING

COVID-19

S. Furstenau: Hon. Speaker, I’m delighted to see you in your role as Speaker.

However, without you on the floor, we do not have the sharp eyes and

witness reports that we have come to expect about the comings and goings

of the smallest Legislative Assembly occupant, the mouse in the House.

The mouse has much to report this year and would like her observations

to be put on the record.

[10:20 a.m.]

The mouse has seen the Legislative Assembly Protective Services

staff go above and beyond this year in their efforts to keep all of us

safe and secure. The mouse has quietly observed the legislative

librarians continue to dig through archives and records and keep all of

our spirits afloat with books uploaded to our devices throughout this

year.

In the dining room, where the mouse dare not go, chefs and servers

have been perhaps less busy but no less cheerful and caring in their

efforts to keep all of us fed.

In recognition of the rather challenging year it has been for IT

and Hansard staff as they have risen again and again to every challenge,

the mouse has made a commitment to chew through no wires

whatsoever.

While the mouse recognizes that her relationship with facilities

and cleaning staff is a strained one, she still re­ports her deep

admiration for their extra efforts this year as they have focused their

attention on keeping out an intruder even smaller and more invisible

than herself.

The mouse has seen the Clerk’s office make this hybrid model work

marvellously, but she does express her regrets that there are far fewer

tasty crumbs in the building with so many of the MLAs beaming in

virtually.

The mouse and I would like to thank everyone in the Legislative

Assembly who has worked so hard and brought us through so well this very

difficult year.

I wish for all of you a restful and peaceful break and a far less

interesting 2021.

GURU NANAK’S FREE KITCHEN

A. Singh: Quite interesting, the mouse.

I’d like to speak on the tradition of giving. Gibran says: “There

are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy,

nor give with mindfulness of virtue. They give as in yonder valley the

myrtle breathes its fragrance into space. Through the hands of such as

these, God speaks, and from behind their eyes. He smiles upon the

earth.”

The people of Guru Nanak’s Free Kitchen in Queensborough are

people grown from this soil, a soil that breeds empathy and love. Guru

Nanak’s Free Kitchen is a site that was formed in 2007 by volunteers who

wanted, needed to make a difference in their fellow humans in the

Downtown Eastside.

Their motto is “Love all, feed all.” They feed an average of 4,000

hot, nutritious, vegetarian meals in the Downtown Eastside every month.

Everything is donated by the community. The Sikh gurdwara in

Queensborough generously shares its commercial kitchen with the

volunteers so they can cook fresh meals every Saturday and every Sunday

morning to be served in the Downtown Eastside later that day.

They gather food donations from several sources and help

distribute thousands of pounds of free groceries to over 15 different

shelters and organizations, including Indigenous-led organizations.

Several hundred people now volunteer with the Guru Nanak’s Free Kitchen

— I volunteered with them as well — an amazing organization.

During the holiday season, they organize a toy drive. Last year

they were able to get over 3,000 toys to kids in need over Christmas.

They’re hoping to exceed that this year. They hold an annual school

supply drive where they have been able to provide elementary school

children in need with much-needed school supplies, including

laptops.

Every Valentine’s Day they distribute care packages to shelters

all over the Lower Mainland. Last year they were able to distribute

about 1,200 care packages. Again, they hope to exceed that this year,

all with volunteers and the care of the community.

Their mission. They’re a Sikh faith-led volunteer organization

that works for the benefit of all communities that wants to enrich the

lives of people through Guru Nanak’s teaching — honest living, sharing

and selfless service.

Please stand with me in recognizing their courage, strength and

generosity.

Oral Questions

COVID-19 RESPONSE FOR DISABILITY

AND INCOME ASSISTANCE

RECIPIENTS

S. Bond: On Tuesday, Sam from Port Moody wrote an email to the Premier.

This is what Sam wrote. “I had been observing how the NDP is handling

the PWD rates clawback, and, Premier, you chose to make the harsh

changes after the election by clawing back the PWD rates when these

people are some of the most vulnerable people during the pandemic. It is

incomprehensible”.

The Premier has, throughout the course of the last days, tried to

dodge accountability by making the absolutely ridiculous claim that he

is only one voice at the cabinet table.

Well, to the Premier, that’s simply not good enough. Will he stand

up, do his job and end the clawback?

[10:25 a.m.]

Mr. Speaker: Minister of Social Development and Po­verty

Reduction.

Again, Members, I just want to give you a heads up. His Wi-fi may

not work as we expect, so he’ll do his best.

Hon. N. Simons: Thank you from Tla’amin territory.

I appreciate the question from the Leader of the

Opposition.

As we’ve said quite clearly, we are pleased that the recovery

benefit, which is available to 3.7 million British Columbians…. To just

review, the member should know that, in March, the province introduced

the workers benefit, for which these individuals were not eligible. A

supplement was put in place of $300 a month, and that was put in place

for three months. It was renewed twice.

We have the new recovery benefit for which individuals on income

assistance and disability assistance are eligible, as well as those

receiving the seniors supplement. I would point out that by the end of

March, all of these individuals will receive more money than they

otherwise would have.

Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Official Opposition on a

supplemental.

S. Bond: What the minister should know and be paying attention to are the

voices of people in British Columbia, people with disabilities,

low-income seniors. Frankly, they’re getting tired of listening to this

minister give the same answer day after day after day.

Here’s what Sam had to say to the Premier. “Again, the focus is

now, not what happened 16 years ago or two years ago. It is now, and we

will be watching you to keep your word, because right now you don’t

appear to be advocating. Instead you took action, clawing back PWD

rates. This is the saddest decision this government has ever

made.”

Will the minister, the Premier, somebody stand up and answer Sam’s

concerns — Sam and thousands of other British Columbians like Sam? Will

the Premier stand up and end the clawback today?

Hon. N. Simons: If the opposition wanted to ask a different question, they would

get a different answer. But the question has been the same, and the

answer has been clear. Individuals receiving income assistance and

disability assistance are eligible for more money by the end of

March.

If the member will just cast her mind back not that long ago,

she’ll remember that her government was responsible for not just the

clawbacks of the transportation supplement, maternity benefits, parental

payments…. They made seniors apply for their CPP at age 60, causing them

to lose significant amounts of income.

The province is committed to reducing poverty, and we’ve made

important steps in that direction after years and years of inaction. I’m

pleased. I think the member should remind all her constituents that they

are eligible for this funding as part of the recovery

benefit.

D. Davies: Jewelles Smith with the Council of Canadians with Disabilities

said: “Cutting this $300 benefit in half and then eliminating it

completely in three months is shocking and, frankly, quite cruel. We

certainly did not expect the benefit to be cut before the pandemic

was…over.”

To the Premier, will he end this clawback?

Hon. N. Simons: Thank you very much to the member for Peace River North. I can

tell him quite clearly that the recovery benefit being available to 3.7

million British Columbians is a benefit that will benefit all our

communities.

I expect that the member knows the story of how, in March, a

workers benefit was established to which they were not eligible, and the

recovery benefit is now made available to 3.7 million British

Columbians.

[10:30 a.m.]

Let me give you an example. Maybe this will help the member for

Peace River North understand. An individual would’ve received $900 under

the current system. With the benefit, they will receive more, $950. But

it’s even more significant for a single parent. Close to 20,000 single

parents will receive $1,450 instead of $900. By my calculations, that’s

$550 more.

I understand the member has his job to do, but the province is

providing assistance to those most in need, and we will continue to do

so.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Peace River North on a supplemental.

D. Davies: The minister, I think, is the one that is doing the math wrong.

everyone who has been reaching out to myself, as well as, I’m sure, the

minister — sees this in a very different picture. One of the words I

hear: this now is Christmas clawback. That’s what this is, right before

Christmas.

Government loves to go down memory lane recently. So let’s go down

memory lane. On March 2, 2016, the now Premier had this to say. “I want

to ask…. I want to plead with the Minister” — the then Minister of

Social Development — “listen to the people you’re supposed to represent,

not the spin doctors back at public affairs…it’s your decision. Do the

right thing.”

Maybe the Premier…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

D. Davies: …will listen to his own advice, and he will do the right thing.

Will he reverse this decision today?

Hon. N. Simons: I thank the member for his supplemental. I’m not travelling that

far down memory lane — in fact, just to March of this year.

In March of this year, we instituted a workers benefit. That was

made eligible to a certain number of people that did not include people

on disability assistance or income assistance and did not reach to the

seniors who were receiving the supplement. We instituted a $300-a-month

supplement. That $300-a-month supplement was scheduled for three months.

It was extended twice and continues until the end of this

month.

We now have a recovery benefit, for which people on income

assistance and disability assistance are eligible. I’m pleased to say

that at the end of March, those on income assistance and disability

assistance and, indeed, those receiving the seniors supplement will be

eligible for more money than they otherwise would have.

COVID-19 RESPONSE FOR

SMALL

BUSINESSES

A. Olsen: As we move into the winter months, B.C. businesses are facing

challenges like they’ve never seen before. It’s heartbreaking to see how

many family-owned businesses, the entrepreneurs, the investors in the

communities, are going to be closing their doors permanently. So far,

this government, frankly, hasn’t acted quickly enough to throw the

lifeline to these businesses. The programs that have been developed have

been difficult to access, with a lot of red tape, and it’s unclear — the

timeline — about when the money will flow.

Today’s fiscal update did not shed any light on the $300 million

small business program that this government created back in September.

This money is an essential lifeline for businesses and needs to be

landing now to have the greatest impact.

My question to the Minister of Jobs, Economic Recovery and

Innovation: how many businesses have applied; how many have been found

eligible and actually gotten out the door to help support small business

owners through this winter?

Hon. R. Kahlon: I want to thank the member for his question. Of course, on this

side of the House, we know that it’s a challenging time, not only for

small businesses but for people throughout B.C. The member talks about

one grant, but I think he has to also acknowledge the host of things

that we’ve been doing as a government to support small

businesses.

[10:35 a.m.]

Just recently a survey came out that two-thirds of all businesses

in B.C. are functioning right now with supports from government. That’s

a significant number. So 95 percent of jobs that we lost during COVID

have come back. That’s something that was raised again by the Minister

of Finance today in the economic update. And $470 million went to PST

rebates. We’ve brought in tax credits for payroll for employers that

want to either hire new employees or bring employees back. There’s a

whole host of others.

I appreciate the member’s question. We also know how difficult of

a time it is. We’ve been working for the last two weeks, since I’ve been

named in this portfolio, with stakeholders, to find ways that more

businesses can get access to this program. I appreciate the work of all

of these associations with us, and there will be more to come

shortly.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Saanich North and the Islands on a

supplemental.

A. Olsen: I think what we’re trying to get to with the point of this

question is some actual substance. Unfortunately, what we continue to

get, and what we’ve got quite often in our responses in this session, is

rhetoric.

We’re looking for the numbers. We want to know how much of the

$300 million which we in this place have put forward to businesses has

got to businesses. We want to know how many businesses have applied. We

want to know how successful this program has been. Unfortunately, there

was a missed opportunity this morning. The minister just missed another

opportunity to highlight the success of this program if, indeed, this

program has been successful.

It’s December. This program is now three months old. It’s been

eight months since this House authorized the government to spend $1.5

billion. The only report that we’ve seen so far suggests that 500

businesses have applied, meaning that if they got the full subsidy, only

$15 million of the $300 million, 5 percent, has actually been allocated.

Those are old numbers. We’re just looking for new numbers.

My question, again, is to the Minister of Jobs, Economic Recovery

and Innovation. When can we expect a full and comprehensive update about

how this money that has been earmarked for small businesses has been

spent, and when will we know how many businesses have actually been

supported for these holidays?

Hon. R. Kahlon: I’ve already shared with the members that over 1,400 businesses

have already come through the door. It’s important to note that the

program was set up in a two-stage approach. First stage for these

businesses was up to $2,000 for supports for them to build a financial

plan for their own recovery, which has been well received by many

businesses throughout B.C. The second stage was the financial

supports.

The member has to acknowledge the amount of investment we’ve made

to support businesses throughout B.C. It’s considerable. I mean, we’ve

got $190 million in tax credits for them to bring back employees or hire

new employees. A 25 percent property tax cut. That’s significant. Also,

65 percent of rent support from the federal government.

You know, even the restaurant sector — we know they were hurt. We

took actions to expediate the patio licences.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, let’s listen to the an­swer,

please.

Minister, continue.

Hon. R. Kahlon: It’s difficult to hear all the investments we’re making, but they

should hear this. It’s important. It’s important because it’s a

responsibility of all of us to make sure that businesses know that these

supports are available for them.

We’ve been meeting with stakeholders in various sectors — the

associations. They all agree that they’re going to work together to make

sure every one of their members knows all the things that are available

for them. I encourage all members of this House to reach out to small

businesses in their communities, encourage them to apply for these

supports. We want to help as many businesses as we can in this

province.

BUDGET PROCESS CHANGES

M. de Jong: Well, the Finance Minister has been busy. In just three weeks, she

has managed to violate her government’s commitment and legal obligations

to First Nations, has created further uncertainty around the budget

process by altering basic timing and reporting requirements, and today

we are witnessing yet another blatant attempt at budgetary

manipulation.

[10:40 a.m.]

The minister and her government are asking for authority to spend

an additional $2 billion. It’s $2 billion the government doesn’t have.

They’re going to have to borrow it. But to the point made by the member

from Saanich, why did she purposely wait until the final hours of this

legislative session to provide a fiscal update that includes information

about matters that are directly relevant to the decision facing members

of this chamber?

Her behaviour obligates me to ask this question: what is she

trying to hide? Why is she trying to hide, and why is she taking a

budget process that has been recognized across the nation for its

openness, its transparency, its predictability and turning it into

exactly the opposite?

Hon. S. Robinson: Well, the member’s accusations are insulting at best. We have been

transparent. We have brought in legislation. We have passed legislation.

We’ll keep doing the work to take care of the people of this

province.

COVID-19 IMPACT ON SERVICES FOR

SPECIAL NEEDS CHILDREN

AND YOUTH

AND REPORT RECOMMENDATIONS

J. Tegart: In her report Left Out , the Representative for Children

and Youth told the heartbreaking stories of parents of children and

youth with special needs who have been supported by the

province.

Pandemic support was stopped in the fall. Parents have struggled

ever since, as the snap election meant no support. The representative

was clear: the pandemic supports should be restored for a year. The

government has refused.

To the Premier, will he immediately provide families of children

and youth with special needs with the support they need and

deserve?

Hon. M. Dean: I thank the member for the question. I really want to thank the

families who took

part in that report and shared their very powerful

stories. I want to thank the Representative for Children and Youth, as

well, for putting together such an informative and powerful

report.

I share her concerns. My heart goes out to the families who are

impacted. Daily life is tough and difficult and a struggle and a

challenge, anyway, for many of these families. When the pandemic hit, of

course, that made it even more difficult. The system has been fragmented

for far too long. So the cracks in the system have been exposed with

this pandemic.

We did step in. We did offer support, and we’re continuing to

offer flexibility in the use of resources for respite, and families and

people who serve families have told us that has been very

welcome.

But the system needs a fix. We need to put children and youth at

the centre of the system. In my mandate letter, the Premier has tasked

me to do that. I’ve already instructed staff to get moving on this as

quickly as we can and to strike an advisory panel.

CHILD CARE FUNDING

K. Kirkpatrick: Yesterday the government seemed surprised that they had promised

parents an extra $250 million for child care in this fiscal year. The

response from the Minister of Finance was “it would be an inappropriate

place for those investments to be made.”

Moms and dads are feeling extra pressure this year and believe

that government’s promise was not an empty one.

To the Premier, the promise was for $250 million in new funding

this fiscal year for child care. Where is that money?

Hon. K. Chen: Again, as a parent myself with a young child, I know that parents

in B.C. have been struggling during this pandemic, making the very tough

decisions about whether to return to work, put their kids in child care

and about the safety and the health of their children.

This is a challenging time for the sector as well. That is why our

government has been working hard to make sure we have the support

available, including our temporary emergency funding and all the other

programs in place to support child care providers, to support early

childhood educators and parents.

[10:45 a.m.]

The $250 million that the member opposite keeps quoting was from

our platform commitment. The member opposite should know very well that

we’re going through the budget process. There is a process to follow,

and our government has been committed and has been working hard to make

sure we bring an inclusive universal early learning and care system for

all British Columbian families, when the other side of the government

had neglected the crisis until 2017.

COVID-19 RESPONSE FOR

SMALL

BUSINESSES

T. Stone: The NDP promised that it would put small businesses at the front

of B.C.’s economic recovery, and that simply hasn’t happened. The only

thing that the small business community has seen from the NDP thus far,

in terms of help, has been a single economic recovery grant program,

which very few are applying for, because very few are eligible. It’s a

red-tape disaster.

Now, if we want confirmation on this, you just have to look at the

numbers. The Minister of Jobs has thrown out the number of 1,400

businesses that are in the process of applying for the small and

medium-sized business recovery grant. That’s of an estimated 15,000

businesses that the government projected would be eligible for this

benefit.

Now, I’ve asked these questions multiple times last week and this

week. I asked them in supplementary estimates yesterday. I’ve asked them

in question period. The member for Saanich North and the Islands has

asked questions. We’re looking for detail.

I’m going to ask one more time. A question to the Premier would be

this. Of the $300 million that’s in this grant program, exactly how many

dollars have actually been allocated to those that are in the process of

applying for this funding? I’d like the government to answer that in

detail today.

Hon. R. Kahlon: There are a couple of….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Continue, Minister.

Hon. R. Kahlon: Thank you, hon. Speaker. The member wants to know how much money

is allocated, and I’m going to tell the member that $300 million has

been allocated.

The member also fails to acknowledge that we have one of the most

comprehensive recovery plans in all of Canada.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members, let’s listen to the answer, please. There’s no point in

asking questions if he can’t get the answer.

Continue, Minister.

Hon. R. Kahlon: We have one of the most comprehensive plans across the country —

$470 million in PST rebates. The member failed to mention that in his

remarks. And $300 million, of course, he mentioned, $190 million in tax

credits for businesses that want to either hire someone new or bring

employees back.

We know many sectors face different challenges. We know that the

restaurant sector faces significant challenges. We accelerated permits

so that they can allow more people to have patio space during the

summer. We brought in wholesale prices for them so that they could see

savings on liquor pricing.

This is not to even mention….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, please.

Carry on, Minister.

Hon. R. Kahlon: That’s not even mentioning all the supports that the federal

government has put in place as well, hon. Member.

I would say that the stats were clear, and the Minister of Finance

confirmed it today. Ninety-five percent of jobs that we lost pre-COVID

have come back. We know, with the new COVID restrictions, that there are

going to be some significant challenges for businesses over the

holidays. We’re going to continue to work with them to ensure that we

make this program as accessible as possible so that as many businesses

as possible can get the supports they need. That’s our goal. We want to

support as many businesses and people through this difficult time in

this pandemic.

COVID-19 RESPONSE FOR TOURISM

INDUSTRY AND REPORT

RECOMMENDATIONS

T. Wat: Yesterday we asked the minister a simple question, when will the

tourism industry receive the financial support this government promised

them, and what was her response? She used the pandemic as an excuse.

What the minister doesn’t seem to understand is these businesses need

help now because we are still in the middle of a global

pandemic.

My question is to the Premier. I hope the Premier will answer this

question. The Premier promised the tourism sector relief, and the

Premier has failed to deliver it. Why has your government failed to keep

its promise?

[10:50 a.m.]

Hon. M. Mark: I’d like to thank the member, again, for the question. The first

week on the job I met with the chair of the task force that our

government put into place. One of the key actions that we did was set

aside $50 million to the task force. We have, in the middle of this

pandemic, set aside $100 million for recovery to invest in

infrastructure.

The most immediate focus right now is people’s safety, but when

this pandemic is over, we need to return to the business of tourism

being on the map for visitors to come to British Columbia. We want it to

be safe.

For right now, we are working to implement the recommendations of

the task force. I received it last week. I’ve met with the task force.

There are seven recommendations. I am doing the work, following the

process. The members opposite are maybe suggesting that I shouldn’t

follow the rules. There are processes with public funds. You have to go

through Treasury Board. There are processes.

The public service is working around the clock to deliver good

news. Good news is coming. Good news is coming to the tourism sector. I

thank the member opposite for the question, because tourism is vitally

important to our province, and we are going to help.

GOVERNMENT ACTION ON OPIOID CRISIS

S. Cadieux: So far this year there have been 1,386 opioid deaths in British

Columbia. They were brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers. They won’t

be there to celebrate Christmas with their families.

To the Premier, how can we all work together to ensure that next

year fewer families have to face such a tragedy?

Hon. S. Malcolmson: I thank my colleague for sharing our deep concern about the tragic

loss of life, something that had hit British Columbia hard and early

compared to the rest of the country, and something that the pandemic has

made worse in every single turn.

We extend our deep gratitude to the organizations on the front

line, from paramedics to grassroots organizations to parent groups, that

have been advocating and proposing such constructive solutions. I’m

encouraged that some of the measures that my predecessor, the first

Minister of Mental Health and Addictions across the country, brought in

over the last three years had started to curve down the line of overdose

deaths, but sadly, the pandemic has made everything worse.

So we have been working flat out. The mandate that the Premier has

given me to build more treatment beds, to expand overdose prevention

services, to work on prescription safe supply, to advocate to the

federal government for the decriminalization of small amounts of illicit

drugs — the personal possession — as a way to reduce stigma is going to

help all of those pieces. But no one single measure will do the work

that is necessary to save the lives that we are committed to

saving.

I will note the new mental health and addictions treatment

response centre that was established in Surrey, in the member’s riding.

That’s just one example of when we work together and treat this crisis

as the health care crisis that it is. Pulling together, with so much

more work to do, we’re determined to save lives.

[End of question period.]

Petitions

Mr. Speaker: We have two petitions, the first one from the member for Saanich North

and the Islands.

A. Olsen: I rise today to submit a petition with 124 signatures from concerned

citizens in my riding with respect to the rules around driver’s licensing

and the requirement of 80-year-old seniors in British Columbia to get a

medical test every two years.

[10:55 a.m.]

Hon. N. Simons: I rise in the House today to present a petition from Pesticide Free

Powell River, signed by well over 1,000 people locally and from afar, asking

Western Forest Products, local governments and the Ministry of Forests and

the Ministry of Environment to stop the use of pesticides in our forest

industry.

I’ll be forwarding this petition to the Office of the

Clerk.

Tabling Documents

Hon. S. Robinson: I have the honour to present the Fall 2020 Economic and Fiscal

Update .

Hon. L. Beare: I seek leave to make an introduction.

Leave granted.

Introductions by Members

Hon. L. Beare: I see in the gallery with us today, Daniela Gardea, who, for those who

may not know, is a senior ministerial adviser in Tourism, Arts, Culture and

Sport. It will be her last question period today as she is retiring this

week.

On behalf of the Minister of Finance; the Minister of Tourism, Arts,

Culture and Sport; and myself, I want to thank her for all of her dedicated

service to British Columbians and, on my behalf, for being our friend. We

will miss you in this building.

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. Farnworth: I call Committee of Supply for the supplementary estimates of the Minister

of Finance.

Committee of Supply

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES

(N o . 3):

OTHER

APPROPRIATIONS

(continued)

The House in Committee of Supply; S. Chandra Herbert in the

chair.

The committee met at 10:58 a.m.

The Chair: Members, I would just like to put us on a short recess as we

have some issues we’ve got to work out, communications-wise, for the

minister. I’ll put us on a ten-minute recess, if I might.

The committee recessed from 10:58 a.m. to 11:06 a.m.

[S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.]

On Vote 52(S): contingencies (all ministries), pandemic response and

economic recovery, $2,000,000,000 (continued) .

A. Olsen: I just have a question for the Minister of Finance with respect to

a situation that has arisen in my riding. A small business owner has

brought it to my attention that despite her sales dropping over last

year 26.5 percent, her wages have only dropped 3.3 percent. This is in

large fact due to the reality that she retained a bunch of staff because

of the Canada emergency wage subsidy. So where she would have furloughed

greater numbers of her staff, she decided to keep them on staff. That

was the goal of the program.

Unfortunately, the provincial government is now requiring her to

pay the employer health tax to the full amount, as the number that she

has paid her staff is over the $500,000 deductible for EHT.

I’m just wondering if the minister is considering any kind of

relief for these. I recognize that there’s some complexity in trying to

figure out which businesses would qualify for this — but recognizing

that businesses such as this one did exactly what we wanted them to do,

yet now this business owner is on the hook for the full employer health

tax.

[11:10 a.m.]

Hon. S. Robinson: We did look at the EHT component. Operationally, it’s very

difficult to sync a federal benefit and a provincial tax component. It

became very, very difficult. Also, wanting to make sure that we can

target appropriately, to make sure that it’s going to small businesses,

is really important to us. So being able to narrow it sufficiently

within the framework that we have was going to be very difficult under

the EHT.

That’s why we developed the IEI program, the increased employment

incentive program. That is part of this supplement. It will provide a

refundable tax credit to employers who increase their payroll, just like

this person retained employees, which is what we want. They’re doing all

the right things.

An increase in payroll in the fourth quarter from the third

quarter for 2020 is eligible for a 20 percent refundable tax credit.

That can go against their EHT. If they don’t pay an EHT, if they don’t

hit the threshold, then that will actually be money directly given to

them to help them, to help them through that.

But I also think it’s important to acknowledge that we’ve provided

significant property tax relief for small businesses, as well as PST

relief. We’re continually listening to small businesses to identify how

we can tailor programs that best meet their needs.

M. Bernier: I thank my colleague for the questions. I’m going to kind of go in

a little bit of a different direction, because I think it’s important

that we get some questions, hopefully, answered by the

minister.

Let me just start by kind of rounding things off a little bit from

the last few days as we go into some of the discussion. The minister

provided a fiscal update. Yesterday we talked about what the difference

would be, and we didn’t get a clear answer, technically, on the

difference between a fiscal update and a Q2 report, although those were

both referenced in her announcement this morning.

It was a little disheartening to find out that the minister is in

front of the House right now, again asking for $2 billion, which, again,

qualified to make sure that’s going out to help people who need help.

There is no argument in the House on that. But again, it’s all around

the responsibility of the accountability and reporting of the minister.

There were specific questions asked in question period today, from media

this morning and the House yesterday around that accountability and

disclosure that the minister should be providing, especially in light of

the fact that we’re in front of the House asking for more

money.

[11:15 a.m.]

When we hear that there’s $1.5 billion that was allotted and

announced right before the election for economic recovery, and then to

find out today that there’s still no analysis…. There’s still no

reporting. There’s still no information that that’s even gone out, let

alone helping people. This House voted on that money because we wanted

it to go out and we wanted to help people. I bring that up because we’re

at the same place today, where this minister is now asking for another

$2 billion to go out and help people, which we want to see and do. We

want to see that go out. I just think it’s important to highlight that,

when we have to be looking at being accountable for the money that goes

through this House.

I’ll ask some questions maybe later on today about that

specifically, because it’s, again, not about the concerns that we’re

hearing and not helping people. Of course we want to do that. But we

also have to look down the road of…. At some point this has to be paid

back. Who is going to be responsible? What are the plans for

that?

I’ll get into some questions in more detail later, but I bring

that up only because the minister is here asking for more and more money

and has not been able to provide this House with any information that

the money is actually going out, technically, into the people’s hands

that need it and the people that are actually out there right now asking

for help.

Maybe I’ll start my first question today. The minister keeps

saying that 3.7 million people are going to be af­fected and going

to be helped. What analysis was done, since this was an election promise

in the middle of a campaign, where everybody was getting $1,000 by

Christmas? That’s not the case now. But the minister keeps saying, and

her members keep saying, 3.7 million people are going to be helped.

Obviously, analysis has been done year-to-date before this campaign

promise and the minister being in front of this House asking for $2

billion. Analysis must have been done to show that there are 3.7 million

people that need this help and how it’s going to help.

Hon. S. Robinson: The member prefaced his question by referencing the fiscal update.

I need to remind the member and the House that that was to September 30.

That’s what we have information on. It’s based on the end of September.

Many of the programs that went live in September, that were launched….

We still have some analysis to do about the impacts of those because the

fiscal update only goes to September 30, so there’s absolutely lots more

activity going on, and we’ll be monitoring that as we go

forward.

Related to the member’s question, the analysis that was done, that

was undertaken to make the determination about how many British

Columbians would benefit from the recovery benefit, was done based on

taxpayer information.

[11:20 a.m.]

Of course, as a provincial government, our public service has lots

of information about taxpayers. Based on the data that they have, we

were able to do the modelling about how many people would be eligible

for this benefit, and 90 percent of British Columbians are eligible for

this benefit, and 85 percent of the 90 percent are eligible for the full

benefit. This is something that we’ve heard from British Columbians — to

help.

I know that the member opposite is interested in helping British

Columbians. The House pulled together in March and then again in August,

and I hope they’ll continue to do the right thing and continue to

support British Columbians as they need it.

M. Bernier: I just want to understand a little bit more what the minister just

said. Today’s fiscal update, the minister has stated and her staff have

stated, is based up to September 30, which was around the same time of

the start of the election. Commitments were made during that election.

The minister is now trying to follow through on one of those

commitments. But she’s in front of the House asking for $2

billion.

Now, the minister keeps saying it’s based as of September 30. Is

this House to believe that the minister’s knowledge is also based, and

she’s only been briefed with those stats, up to September 30?

Hon. S. Robinson: Year-to-date reporting is all we have — the six months. That’s

standard practice in terms of reporting into the Ministry of Finance.

That’s what hap­pened when the member was on this side of the

House and continues to be the practice.

With regards to actuals, what we have is what’s been reported to

date. However, the forecasting component certainly takes into

consideration more current information as it is released from various

different agencies.

M. Bernier: Maybe I’ll rephrase my question. Maybe the minister didn’t

understand the way I put it. It’s not so much what was being reported,

it’s what the minister knows.

The minister must get briefings from staff. The minister must know

the fiscal state of the province of British Columbia. She doesn’t

require, on quarterly updates like what she’s presenting to the public….

I’m asking if the minister actually gets daily, weekly, monthly or

quarterly briefings. What’s her knowledge, as the Minister of Finance,

of the fiscal state of the province?

[11:25 a.m.]

Hon. S. Robinson: I know that the member understands that when reporting out

happens, we pay very close attention to what various economic indicators

are and what’s happening globally. These are regular updates. When it

comes to seeing how we are managing through these very turbulent

economic times, that is what we presented in the economic update —

taking a look at whatever is certainly most current.

How government spends money is done on a quarterly basis and

reporting up and reporting out. So this update is based on year to date

for the first six months. I also think it’s important to recognize — and

I know that the member appreciates this — how things are continually

changing. Even acknowledging the quarterly update that my predecessor

gave back in September, there have been some significant changes and

some really good numbers that represent hope, that represent the

beginning of good news.

I also think it’s important that we remain thoughtful and mindful

that it’s an ever-changing situation. So we do monitor quite regularly.

The economic update is the most current information that we

have.

M. Bernier: Things are ever changing. We actually have a new Finance Minister.

I congratulated her at the beginning of this.

The minister is saying that things are ever changing, that there’s

information. But at the same time, she’s saying that this information is

based on September 30. Is the minister telling this House that as a new

minister, that wasn’t sworn in until November, she was not given any

information of the fiscal state of this province, other than what we

heard today? Maybe I’m wrong, but it sounds like that’s what the

minister is saying, that the information that she has is based on the Q2

report or fiscal update that went out today. That’s the only briefing

that she’s had, and that’s why she’s presented it to the

House.

If that’s the case, we have a couple of months’ gap there where

the Minister of Finance for the province of British Columbia doesn’t

know what’s going on in the province. I sure hope that’s not the case.

I’ll give the minister an opportunity to stand up and say I’m wrong.

That’s why I’m asking the question. She’s in front of the House asking

for $2 billion. Sounds like she doesn’t know what the fiscal state of

the province is.

That’s why I’m just trying to understand why she’s not willing to

say where we’re actually at, other than the Q2, or the fiscal update.

However we choose to phrase it. I’m just trying to square the circle

here on the two-month gap of what’s happening in the province. The

minister, so far, makes it sound like she doesn’t know what’s happened

over the last two months. Is she going to correct me on that?

Hon. S. Robinson: I find it continually insulting. There seems to be this pattern of

questioning that suggests, perhaps, some incompetence that I find very

disrespectful in this House. I have reported the most recent data. That

is standard practice in this House, in this chamber. The member knows

that full well. To suggest somehow that I’m incompetent or less able,

somehow, perhaps, than a man…. I don’t know if that’s what’s going on

here. Certainly, I find it disrespectful.

I will give the member a little bit of space, and perhaps suggest

that it’s more that he’s also new to his role and doesn’t understand how

quarterly updates are provided and how information flows from the

ministries into the Ministry of Finance.

I have an amazing team of people who regularly update me on the

state of affairs, and we work quarterly. We work quarterly,

understanding all the various component parts and how they all feed into

the system. This update was provided to the people of British Columbia,

so that they know exactly where this spending is. They know exactly

where the revenues are and that we are preparing an outlook based on

some of those real numbers.

[11:30 a.m.]

The member also knows that it does take time each quarter for

those reports to come in. We are in the middle of the next quarter. As a

result, I look forward to getting more information. Like I said, it

continually changes. Every quarter, you get an update, because there are

standard practices here in government that happen. We are going to

continue to inform British Columbians about the state of affairs, about

the outlook and, also, remind them that there’s hope on the

horizon.

We have spent the better part of a year dealing with a pandemic

that has worn everybody down. I know that it has worn the members

opposite down. It has certainly worn me down. I’m sure it has worn down

the Speakers and the Chair as well. It has worn down British Columbians.

But we are a resilient bunch. The numbers today that I shared, that

we’ve been monitoring regularly, tell us that things are moving in the

right direction.

We’re not out of the woods by any means. We need to manage the

risks that still lie before us, and we need to be prudent in our

approach. But there is hope. We’re seeing job numbers coming back up.

We’re at 98.5 percent of pre-pandemic employment levels, which is a good

sign. This is a good thing.

I’m not ready to celebrate yet. There’s still a ton of work to do.

I want to see it more than 100 percent. But we see retail sales

rebounding. We see housing starts remaining strong. We know that there

are lots of investments, certainly, from government and others in the

construction sector and building up capital projects.

There’s certainly still more work to do. The tourism sector has

been heavily impacted. We know that many people are still struggling to

pay bills, to pay rent, to pay for food. That’s why we are back in the

House today. We’re here today to continue to help British Columbians

through what continues to be a difficult time.

M. Bernier: Yeah, we are here to do that. We’re also here to ask tough

questions. It’s unfortunate that the minister had to digress into

insults towards myself or perceptions of how this House is running when,

in fact, I’m just asking serious questions about the knowledge of the

minister.

I’ll make this easy. The minister could have easily stood up and

said…. I am very well aware of how this works. I spent time on that side

of the House. The minister could have said: “We do quarterly updates.

That’s when we present them publicly. That’s when I talk to my cabinet

ministers. Of course, as the Minister of Finance, I’m aware of the

fiscal situation of the province, and I work with my staff constantly to

understand that.”

That’s all I was looking for as an answer, and we could have moved

on. She didn’t have to stand up and throw insults. That’s not what this

is about. This is actually about just trying to get the information from

the minister, of her knowledge of the ministry, as we move forward

through her requests of this House for more money to help people, which

is why we’re here today. It’s my job, not only as the critic but as a

citizen and a member over here on the opposition, to ask the questions

of the knowledge of the minister for the role that she has been granted

in this House. That’s all I’m doing.

So it definitely wasn’t…. I’m not going to ask for her to

withdraw. I doubt if she would. But it is insulting, across, as well,

when there was no reason to bring it to a low level like

that.

I will go to a point, though, since the minister…. You know, we’ve

received the fiscal update. She’s here to ask for $2 billion. Let’s talk

about that. I’m trying to understand, again. I appreciate the heckles

from her colleagues across, that…. Maybe they can just jump up and speak

about how they’ve supported this. Oh, wait. They had that opportunity,

and none of them did that. I guess they prefer to heckle rather than

speak to it. They probably don’t understand what we’re debating right

now; otherwise they would have spoken to this.

I’m trying to understand some of the rationale — just the numbers.

The minister just said 90 percent of the people are going to be able to

apply, and 85 percent of the people will get the full amount. The

Premier originally said 100 percent of the people were going to get it.

The Premier then changed it to 80 percent. So we’ve heard 80, 85, 90 and

Just for the record again. I believe the minister will stand up

and say the Premier was wrong. She’ll probably phrase it more delicately

— that he was. Is it 90 percent eligible, 85 percent full amount, and

not the 100 percent, as the Premier said?

[11:35 a.m.]

Hon. S. Robinson: First of all, I would like to apologize if…. My intent wasn’t to

insult the member. I apologize if that was, in fact, the case or heard

that way. But I have fielded a number of questions this morning

suggesting somehow my incompetence in some way, shape or form, and if

that was not intended, then I apologize to the member for

that.

Our platform was really clear. It said that we would bring forward

a recovery benefit that would be income-tested. That’s exactly what

we’ve done here. We have an income-tested proposal here that we’ve

brought forward to help British Columbians who need it the most. So this

is about making sure that we can help those who have low, moderate

incomes. Again, I’ll go back to…. There have been numerous ways that

we’ve been working to support people.

We introduced the B.C. recovery benefit, in this case, here in

December. It’s a one-time tax-free payment of up to $1,000 for families

with household incomes under $175,000 annually and up to $500 for single

people earning less than $87,500.

We do know the numbers of people, those who make…. Families where

there’s $125,000 or less are eligible for the full benefit, and those

that make, I believe, $62,500 will receive the full amount — the $500,

individuals. And we do know, based on tax data, because we have a

significant amount of information about the incomes of British

Columbians, we’re able to identify how many people this will benefit.

From that — and I thank the public service for doing the modelling and

running the numbers — we know that about 3.7 million British Columbians

are eligible to receive this recovery benefit.

The recovery benefit…. Today is Thursday, so tomorrow, Friday, it

will be opened. I want to urge all British Columbians who are eligible

to go online. It will be the fastest, most efficient way to access these

supports. And then starting next week, we’ll have telephone applications

available.

Again, I want to thank the public service. They are moving very

quickly on this. They have seconded people to be available by phone, to

help people. They’re ramping up to have dozens and dozens of people

answering phones over the next number of weeks, and I want to urge

everyone to make an application.

The benefit is about, really, helping people through what’s been a

difficult time. We’ve seen the value of doing that in March, where we

had a worker benefit of $1,000 and some rent supplements and really

making sure that people can do the best they can in very, very trying

circumstances.

I think we’ve seen a little bit of that come back at us when we

take a look at retail sales and how they have rebounded in such a strong

way. It means that households are able to manage. That doesn’t mean that

the entire retail sector is doing well. There are certainly parts of the

retail sector that are continuing to struggle, and it’s for that reason

that we’re putting in, certainly, business supports to help them as

well.

The Chair: Thank you, Minister.

I just want to reflect shortly on the exchange that went on —

just to remind all members that I believe British Columbians want us

to seek the best out of each other and to give the best to each

other so we can do the best for them, who elect us to sit in this

place. Of course, moderation, temperance in our language and how we

treat each other are signs of good parliamentary language. I just

want to remind everyone, especially now in this season of giving,

let’s try and be good to each other. So thank you,

everybody.

Member for Peace River South.

M. Bernier: Thank you. With all due respect to the minister…. I mean, in that

last answer…. I’ve heard that answer about 30 times. I’d like to try to

finish today. I’ve got lots of questions, though, so I’m going to agree

with most of what the minister just said — of the intent, why we’re here

and what we’re trying to do, which is help people. I say that only to

try to save her some time in her responses, if she so chooses, so we can

get through the questions so we don’t have to stick around tomorrow. I’d

rather get through this today so we can help people.

[11:40 a.m.]

What other mechanisms were looked at for distribution? I’d rather

stick to the $2 billion conversation — mostly the $1.4 million to $1.7

million. We’re going to talk about that mostly for the next while. The

minister has said this has been means-tested or

income-tested.

Was there only the one mechanism for how this was going to go, or

did civil servants come by with a couple of different options, and this

is the one that was chosen best to impact the most people? I’m just

curious if this was the only option.

Hon. S. Robinson: The member had asked, sort of, what mechanisms were used and what

options were presented. When we do a means test or an income-test

program, the most efficient way to do it is by using tax returns. It’s

where we have the most data. So that was the recommended option,

certainly by staff, in terms of how we would target this to those who

need it the most.

In terms of operationally, in terms of how it would run, in terms

of application and what information was needed, we leveraged the

emergency benefit for workers process that was used back in the spring,

because that was already set up. It was already established, and it was

familiar, because we want to move quickly. We want to work quickly. So

we used work that had previously been done, so that we could apply it to

this program and continue to support people.

M. Bernier: I appreciate that the civil servants are trying to figure out how

to, at the last minute, I guess, change a program or try to figure out

how to make something happen based on an election promise, and that

happens all the time. I’m not saying it doesn’t. But I also recognize

the fact that the election promise was to get out to help everybody who

needs help.

After lunch, I’m going to get into some specifics that have been

sent to me as examples, because the minister said that she wants to make

sure this money goes out right away and for people to apply that

qualify. Of course, we’re going to get into a position. I want to ask

some scenarios around qualification for myself and for the public that

are asking on whether they should or should not apply and whether it

fits in to them.

But is the minister saying, based on what I just heard, that that

means everybody who’s going to need help, who needs help right now,

based on the rollout that they’re putting…? Everybody will qualify that

actually needs help?

[11:45 a.m.]

Hon. S. Robinson: One of the reasons why we picked such a significant threshold,

$125,000 and $62,500 for the 2019 income, was to capture as many people

as we could that would be certainly low and perhaps moderate income so

that we can get help to them as quickly as possible. Those who have been

most impacted by the pandemic can get the help that they

need.

M. Bernier: With that scenario that the minister just described, does that

mean that there are people that have not been negatively affected by

COVID in any way, in fact, might even be in a better financial

situation, and that they still qualify?

Hon. S. Robinson: Again, this is an income-tested program. I mean, we’ve been over

that. It is targeting low and middle incomes, capturing the vast

majority of folks that have been impacted.

Again, I know the member appreciates that to roll out a

significant, big program like this requires that you have criteria that

captures those that need it the most — and that’s how this has been

designed — especially when we want to be working quickly. We felt that

that was also really important. I know that the member agrees that

getting this resource into people’s hands now, while they’re

experiencing the impacts, is a critical component of this program. It’s

for that reason that we’ve designed the program to be this way to

capture those that need it the most.

M. Bernier: Again, I appreciate what the minister is trying to do. I’m just

trying to understand if there was a better way to do this. Throughout

the year, as different crises have been recognized, as people have come

forward, the government, to its credit — and that’s why they came to the

House and asked for $5 billion more — have been trying to figure out how

to help in some of those situations.

[11:50 a.m.]

There was the B.C. emergency benefit for workers, I believe,

earlier this year, if I’ve got the program right, that wasn’t required

on 2019 data. I’m pretty sure, if I remember, it was rolled out, then,

based on people who were needing help then.

When you apply for your EI, whether you qualify for the next

two-week cheque, it’s based on what happened in the two-week period that

you’re claiming. There are so many other programs that government has or

government does or, in this last year, that government has tried to put

out that’s based on the present circumstances of people’s lives, not

where their life was last year.

That’s why I’m just asking this question of what other programs

were considered. The government was able, in other areas, to get money

out the door — targeted money — to, specifically, people that were

affected on whatever challenge it was at that time. It’s taken a lot

longer than we want for other things, like small business and tourism,

but there were some successes earlier on in the rollouts.

I think what I’ve heard from the minister, by encompassing 3.7

million people, that there’s going to be a lot of people who actually

have not been negatively affected that can and probably will apply,

taking out of this pot of money. Is that what I just heard

correctly?

Hon. S. Robinson: When we tasked the public service with building a program to help

British Columbians, those most impacted, there’s certainly a number of

things to balance in the design. One is it needed to be administratively

easy. It needed to be easy for people to make application, it needed to

be with information that they had readily available to them, and it

needed to be done in a timely way. Those were the elements that I think

everyone in this House agrees are important elements, and that there

should be some sort of eligibility requirement.

We tasked them to do an analysis about how many people that would

help, and would it help those who are most impacted? The analysis came

back that constructing it in the way that we have would capture those

who needed it the most. It’s for that reason, for all of those elements,

that we constructed it this way. It’s for that reason that we have this

program.

M. Bernier: I by no means want to blame the public servants, by any means.

They came forward with a recommendation. They were tasked with a very

short timeline to come up with a new program and figure out how to roll

it out to try to meet a political agenda, so it’s by no means their

fault, but it is their challenge to try to meet that.

Before we break, Chair, I guess…. I’ve got a lot of questions that

obviously we’re going to be going into through the afternoon for a

while, at the minimum.

The minister said that it’s means-tested and that they’re going to

help lots of people. Where did they come up with the analysis, then, of

the thresholds of the 124,000, the 69, the 175 — all the numbers that

the minister brought up earlier? To some, it sounds very interesting

that somebody that makes $175,000 a year can apply for this, albeit a

reduced amount, as the minister has acknowledged. But the numbers don’t

match other programs that the government has put forward in the past or,

rather, commitments they’ve made around monetary thresholds of people’s

incomes.

Where did these numbers specifically come from?

[11:55 a.m.]

Hon. S. Robinson: I’ll be quick with my response.

The ranges that were chosen are actually not inconsistent with

other programs of the federal government or provincial programs. They

were grounded in that.

Noting the hour, I move that the committee rise, report progress

and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 11:56 a.m.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

The Committee of Supply, having reported progress, was granted leave

to sit again.

Hon. M. Farnworth moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m.

The House adjourned at 11:57 a.m.

Copyright © 2020 Legislative Assembly of British Columbia

The Official Report of Debates (Hansard) and webcasts of

chamber proceedings are available at www.leg.bc.ca .

For inquiries contact:

Hansard Services

612 Government Street

Victoria, BC V8V 1X4

Telephone: 250-387-3681

Email: hansardservices@leg.bc.ca

Published by Hansard Services under the authority

of the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia.