VOL. 2 PRELH1INARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD 10:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.Q. FRIDAY, NARCH 21, 1980 NO. 15

Mar ch 21 , 1980 The House met at 10:00 A.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): ::'a pe No . 532 Order, please! ORAL QUESTIONS: MR. SEEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition . NM - 1 ~ffi- ~~~IESON: Mr. Speaker, a question for the Minister of Mines and Energy. Last Autumn,! think it was, he indicated a certain timetable with regard to the report of the Lower Churchill Development Corporation.

It was I thi~~ at that time suggested that it ~auld not necessarily all come in one piece but that there would be parts of it ready by March 1 as I recall, and the entire job probably would be completed by April. Is that timetable still in effect? & ~d the second part of the question, so that perhaps he can answer them both at the same time, as these reports are concluded 1are any of them or all of them going to be made public? M.~. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Mines and Energy. MR. BAR.qY: Mr. Speaker, the timetable seems to be still adhered to.

We are still expecting the final report, complete report, to be considered by the Board of Directors of Hydro in late April and then to come to government with recommendations from the Board of Hydro. In the meantime, I have been getting interim reports with respect to various aspects of the studies as they are completed. I believe that the best way of dealing with the matters will be to have the complete report presented and made public when it has been completed rather than have bits and pieces of it come out. MR. SPEAKER: Opposition. MR. JAMIESON: A supplementary. The hon.

Leader of the Well 1if that is the case, and I suppose it is logical to say that all the evidence or all the documentation shouldbe in at the one time, what is the date when the public is likely to ·;et its first look at it? And the second point, which really in a way relates to the Environmental Bill which we discussed yesterday, and on 1 t..U7

Harch 21, lSSO Tape No. 532 NM - 2 1-!.~ . JA!-UESON : which che P=emie~ spoke , and of course ch~s would obviously be one oi r:.hose m.a~cr undertakings, "•lhat is ti':.e lin.\age bet•..,een the submission of this? Nill de<:isions have bee."l :uade !;y c.he to:ime it becomes FUb li c? And what about the envi ronmentoal elements of it .m e how will the y be considered? ~ffi. S?~~~R (Si~s ) : The hon . ~ti n isto er of ~ines and <:nergy. MR. BARRY: ------ Mr.

Speaker, as the hon. member should know, havin~ been in government federally, we did not wait for the Environmental Assessment Act in this case, and particularly because it was a federal/ provincial undertaking we have had an ongoing environmental assessment by the Federal Environmental Assessment Board, together with ou.r people since-I think it started in 1974, and there have been a number of interim reports made public to my knowledge, as I understand it, over the last several years.

A.,d that board is still working to finalize recommendations for proper environmental protection as a result ·of tl:le Lower Churchlll Development. MR. JAMIESON: A supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. JAMIF;SON: This is the point I was getting at, that we have spent much of this ~o-eek discussing an environmental act, and it was one of my colleagues,I believe from Windsor-Buchans (Mr. Flight), ~ made the point that projects in progress would not in fact come under this environmental act.

Is the minister now saying to me t.hat the Lower Churchill Development, which probably has greater environmental implications than virtually anything else that could be conceived of, is not going to be subject to the Environmental Act, which preslllllably we will g· ·.re a second reading to today? 1408

l1arch 21,1980 MR. JAMIESON: has left? MR.SPEAKER (Simms) MR. BARRY: Tape No. 533 AH-1 Is that the impression that he The hon. minister. l1r. Speake~. I d~d not say that. I said that we did not wait for the act in order to commence environmental assessment with public input, I might add, and, Mr.

Speaker, the question of whether in fact there will have to be another assessme~t under the Provincial Environmental Assessment Act, I think can only be considered once we have received a final report of the Environmental Assessment Board which has been set up and which must scrutinize all projects of this nature in which there is federal participation.

So if we have an adequate environmental assessment carried out before the act, the provincial act is ever in place, we will have to ask is it necessary and we will be perfectly interested in receiving suggestions from han. members opposite on this point and from the general public. We have an open mind on the question. MR. SPEAKER: MR.NEARY: The han. member for LaPoile. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Tourism (Mr.Dawe), Sir, and it has to do with a film that was allegedly not produced,undelivered 1 by Mr.

George McLean even though the government had ?aid for the film. would the han. gentleman tell the House the status now of this situation? MR.SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Tourism. MR.DAWE: Mr. Speaker, we have received the film and in the judgement of officials of my department there were some colour corrections that needed to be done to the film and subsequently we got in touch with the firm that did the film and they are in the process now of making the necessary colour corrections at no additional cost• MR. NEARY: A supplementary. 1409

March 21.1980 :·1R. S?EAl<C:i:l. (Si:ttms) : ':or LaPoile. Tape No . 533 AH-2 A supplemencary. The hon.member MR.3EAR¥: In view of the highly suspect dealings between Hr. :·!cLean ana che former Pre:nier of this ?rovi~ce and tne !crmer ad:ttinistratioo, has tbe hon .ger.tleman undertake n in view of che disclosures that have come ouc in this Rouse recently and mentioned previously in the Auditor General 's Report involving Mr.

McLean, has the minister undertaken to have a thorough accounting dono of the McLean errors ,andthe final days of the Moore's administra~ioo especiall~ to see if the :ttoney was spent properly and i! we have any cases similar co the one that arose this year 1n the Auditor ~ eneral's Reporc? MR.S?EAKER: MR.OAWE: The hon. Minister of Tourism. Mr.

Speaker, as the accountin~ procedures relate to the expenditures on that particul~r film,officials of my department are .in fact .and have in the past made adequate enquiries and so on into the dealings and the actual cost o: that film, Anc as soon as the file is available tc us and che final cost~ng has been tabulated then we will make that info rmation available to the House. MR. NEAR¥: 11R. SPEAKER: member for LaPoile. :-{R. NEARY: A final supplementary. A final supplementary. The hon. The hon. gentleman probably understood my question .

I was asking, and I think it should be done and ! believe the Premier should issue instructions to have it done, that the Auditor General 1410

March 21, 1980 Tape 534 EC - 1 MR. S. W..A..I'I.Y: be called in to do ~ complete accounting of all the transactions between George McLean and the former administration. I would also like to ask the hon. gentleman if he is going to table in this session of the House the expenses involved in the Norma and Gladys charade for the last several years? MR. J. MORGAN: Did you read Wick Collins? MR. S. NEARY: Yes, I have, and as a matter of fact - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. S. NEARY: - as a matter of fact, I did, Sir. MR. SPEAKER (Simlns) : Order, please! MR. S. NEARY: And I agree with him. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. S. NEARY: And I think it is time that the government produced expenses of the Norma and Gladys, especially her trip that she made across the Atlantic and to the West Indies a few years back. We are entitled to have an accounting So far, the government have refused to give it to us. Will the minister table the expenses in the session? MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Minister of Tourism, Recreation and Culture. MR. R. DAWE: I will take that question under advisement, Mr. Speaker, and get back to the hon. -mber in due course. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Bonavista North. MR. L.

STIRLING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Transportation and Communications. I received a call last night fro111. people involved in snow clearing' · -\ the second shift in snow elearinq in my district, and they advise that they have been given their layoff notices and they are going back to one shift. Would the mini8ter confirm or clear up that question? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Communications. 1 4 11

March 21, 1980 Tape 534 EC - 2 MR. C. BRETT: Yes, I would have to confirm that, Mr. Speaker, that we are laying off a lot of our second shift workers in some parts of the Province. In some parts we are not, but apparently, up in the hon. member's district, we are. MR. S. NEARY: And in my discrict. MR. c. BRETT: Of course, they are being laid off according to seniority. Actually, we do not have too much say in who goes and who stays - depending on seniority in the union agreement, that is the way they are laid off . MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : for Bonavista North. MR. L. STIRLn<G: my supplementary.

Do you have a say in A supplementary, the hon. the member Tha~ you, Mr. Speaker. Y~ anticipated I have been told - and I would ask the minister if he would investigate this - I have been told by the people who are directly involved that the same thing happened to them last year and those who were laid off kept track of the overtime. And they are of the impression that for the balance of the snow season that it costs the government more in overtime than it would have cost to keep this secona shift on at regular rates.

I realize he may not have the answer off the top of his head, but would the minister agree to investigate that and report back to the House? MR. SPEAKER: and Communications. MR.. C. BRETT: The hen. the Minister of Transportation Mr. Speaker, that has come to my attention before, last Fall, in fa~before we put on the second shift, and I have uked tile staff to monitor that very , very closely. I think at times it bas come close but it has not reached the point where it would have been cheaper to take on the extra staff. But we are monitoring that all t.'le time. 1412

March 21, 1980 MR. L. STIRLmG: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : member for Bonavista North. MR. L. STIRLmG: Tape No. 535 SD - 1 A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A final supplementary, the hon. In view of that,and I take it the minister has agreed that he will table that info~ation based on last year. MR. C. BRETT: Right. MR. L.

STIFLING: In view of that, would the minister table for the benefit of the House and specifically for the people in my district the anticipation .because obviously whether you select ~~e 23rd of March or the 15th of April there must have been some projections done as to what the cost would be of keeping that second shift to a certain date versUs putting on the overtime. Would the minister table for the House their projections of what the savings are going to be by putting these fourteen or fifteen people out of work? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR. C. BRETT: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, I will but I should point out that it is very difficult because it depends on the weather. I mean, if we do not get any more snowstorms 1 obviously, you know, the cost will be insignificant but if we run into three or four snowstorms then the cost will go up but I will ~ladly table ~~e information. MR. J. HODDER: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. l!lember for Port au Port. MR. J. HODDER: My supple!!!entary is on snow clearing but not on this particular aspect of snow clearing.

A couple of years ago the Department of Transportation and Communications published a pamphlet which listed numbers which people could call in order to get road information during snowstorms. I would ask the minister _. why was this plan allowed to lapse, particularly in 1 41 3

!-la rc h 21 , 1'?80 Tape No. 535 SD - 2 MR • .1. HODDER: western Newfoundland, this year? In some of our worst snowstorms you could not get a road report and it was my understanding from the previous Minister of Transportation and Communications that some of the snowplows would be equipped with radios which could radio back so that people could get first-hand information of wpat the roads were like, because "'- in two snowstorms on the west Coast this year the roads were blocked, cut off completely for a long time and people could not get information from the BCMP or from the Department. of Highways.

I tried to do it myself. but there was no way, there was no <mSwer within the Department of Highways. Why has the minister let this plan elapse and does the minister intend to go through with the plans of his predecessor? MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) The hon. Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR. c. BRETr: Mr. Speaker, that was not dropped intentionally. I think at mst times you can get an answer from the depot or the sub-depots to road conditions and most ti!Ues you can get it from the RCMP. Probably in some very extreme c:irCUJIIStances you can not,but I still bel .ieve that most times you can.

I have had no difficulty in getting reports from this part of the coast and I a,m sorry if the lion. member ran into difficulty over there. I will look into the matter. With respect to radios , in the trucks or the plows, we do have radios in our snowplows and trucks in some sections of the Province. 1414

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 536 EL - l MR. C. BRETT: I know we do on the Northern Peninsula, for example, ~d we would like to extend it to all of our vehicles, but it is very costly and it is something that has to be done over a period of time. MR. L. THOl\15 : MR. SPEAKER (Simns) : for Grand Bank. MR. L. THOMS : A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplemenatry, the hon. the !~ember Mr.

Speaker, the problem on the Burin Peninsula in the crisis just recently, the the snowstorm, ~~~ I have been in contact with their superintendant there and ao~ed him what the problem was and he said to me. he said ' ·~ook,the whole problem, Les, is this the said • "Every piece of equipment I h&ve on the road i.s broken down. " And is there any plan to replace any of the equipment, and I am thinking particularly now in my own district area? MR. SPEAKER (SiJmns) : The hon. the Minister of Transport- ation. MR. C. BRETT: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, every year there is an allocation of funds in the B~dget to purchilSe new equipment and I suppose the Budget will be coming down in the House in the next two, three or four -eks or couple of months, or whatever , and then it will be obvious to the hon. member just how muc.'\ roney will be JUde avaihble to ury department for replacement of equip~r.ent next year. Obviously, there is going to be some - a lot. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the ~r for Fogo. MR. B. TULK: Mr.

Speaker, my question iii for the Minister of Mines and Energy and it relates to the exploration for offshore oil and gas and particularly the supply b~es for drilling rigs. And ray question to the Minister is could he give us some idea whether the offshore : supply companies intend to use the ports in other areas of the Province other than St. John's and ,if so, what ports will be used? 1 41 s

March 21:; 1980 Tape No. 536 EL - 2 MR. SPEAKER (simms): The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy. MR. L. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, this is an example of the type of decision which makes it: very important for this Province to have jurisdiction over offshore oil and gas matt:ers. ;..nd we would have, if the Federal Government'&,Kr. Trudeau's position- ~- NEA!l.Y: You have it (inaudible). MR. SPEAKER (5_irnms) : Order, please. IlK. L • BARP.Y : - were to prevail, we would have very little ability, very little acntrol over directing where this type of activity should take place. MR. S.

NEARY : (Inaudible) "'hat he is tukinq il.bout. MR. SPEAKER (Simlns): Order, please~ MR. L. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, I am really sorry, saddened and shocked to hear the response of the hon. ~ember for LaPoile. Ml!.. S • NEARY: We have the control. Ml!.. SPEAKER (Si.Jmns) : Order, please! Order, please~ The hon. 111ember has asked a question. I think the Minister :has the right to respond without interruption so that we can all hear the answer. MR. L. BARRY: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, I ~ shocked to get the response of the JDember for LaPoile .because it ~ts out the sad lack of understanding, the sad lack of understanding as to what is at. stake with respect to control of offshore oil and gas develop• ments-. We expect, Mr. Speaker, this season, that there will be some activity at Botwood; 1416

March 21, 1980 Tape No . 537 DW - 1 MR. L. Brl.RRY: ~here has been a company that has been operating out of Botwood and we understand there will be activity again out of that port this season. There will, Mr. Speaker, be other areas of the Province that will benefit as explora- tion becomes directed further North. Petrocan is conce~- trating again this year off the coast of Labrador, There will be three drill rigs in operation, three drillships, and its main base will be out of st. John's but there will be secondar y bases along the coast of Labrador.

Other possible areas, possible ports on the Northeast coast ~ay see additional activity once exploration is renewed off the Northeast coast.

For this year we anticipate that it will primarily be seismic work that will be carried on out there 1but there should be some requirements for the use of supply bases and it is pqss~le, I understand, for example 1that the town of Lewisporte is actively out promoting the potential of .its harbour facilities,and othe .r communities around the Province should be doing the same thing, other communities that have potential to get involved in the oil industry should be making that known to the oil companies directly and we will do whatever we can to assist them in seeing that their potential is realized. MR.

B. ~ULK: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): member for Fogo. MR. B. TULK: A supple~entary, Mr. Speaker, A supplementary, the hon. Mr. Speaker, I think ~~= minister is probably aware of an item that has been carried in the news media for some time concerning a community in my district,namely the community of Carmanville. It has been suggested that there is a strong possibility that Carmanville may indeed be such a supply base. I am sure thecminister appreciates 1417

:1a:rch. 21 , ' 19 80 Tape No. 537 ow - 2 MR. B. TULK: that there has been a great deal of speculation and arising expectations in that com- munity as a result of those news reports. So I wonder if the minister would confirm or deny a·s to whether there is any foundation to those r!lmours and 1 if they are true 1 can he give usRSome indication •s to when the intention will become a reality? MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. Minister of Mines and Energy. M R • L • Bi\ RR Y : MI.

Speaker, I have to say that again 1 if our government can sustain the jurisi.dic­ tion which it claims and it is no~ excercising over the offshore 1 we intend to see that the benefits are distri­ buted as widely as possible throughout the Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Rear, hear! MR. L. BARRY: What is happening at Car- manville 1as I understand it 1 is that there are certain private interests which have recognized that there could ~e a potential for offshore oil and gas involve­ ment as far as those harbour facilities are concerned.

This is the way we hope to see ·.other things developed, that private enterprise will see initiat!ves and 1 41 a

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 538 NN - 1 ~'~"-· a.;u<RY: will promote them, with,cf course 1the ~ssistance of government, and again we will do all we can to ensure that carmanville has its place in the sun. And we expect that there will be other areas as activity increases, and there will, once :::ornmercial production takes place 1 there will be other places but we can see certain potential for Carrnanville. Ic is not possible for me to lay on hands and say, 'Carmar:ville 1you are 1.t.

You have it.' It is a question of what the economics of the situation are, where the base will be servicing, what area, whether it is Labrador, Nort~east Coast, Southern Grand Banks.The further South they are the greater the advantage for the Avalon Peninsula, the further North they are the greater the advantage for Labrador. The Northeast Coast obviously will benefit from activit y that takes place off the Northeast Coast.

But we can see potential for Carmanville. we understand that you have a very vigorous and aggressive private initiative underway there and we wish the town of Carmanville all success, and we will do whatever we can to help them. MR. SPEAKER (Si.."'!lffiS) : A final supplementary, the han. member for Fogo. MR. TULiC: I thank the minister for his answer, Mr.

Speaker, but in view of the minister's answer I would like to ask him have any of the local organizations in that community been contacted or have they had any input into the decision making process as to the special impact that it could have in their community? And furthe~~ore I would ask him if he would perhaps delve a little farther into the Carmanville situation and either privately or in the House tell me exactly what the score is at this point. MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Mines and Energy. MR. BARRY: Mr.

Speaker, this is a private initiative, as I have said, it is not a government initiative 1so the information that is available as to what the plans of these private groups are will 1419

(<larch 21 , 1980 T~pe NO . 538 N!-1 ~ 2 ~m. 3A.'U\Y, de~-nd upon che1: ~!~ngness eo pass the in fo~a~ion onto government. I have not indicated anv hesltatio~ on the p~ of these particular i~Aividuals to do that . I expect I will be able co gee informacion for the hon . member co pass it on . ! ~elieve we have had a coocunlca:ion :rom t:he council at Carmanville, or development assoc:iat:.on, I forget "-'hicb , a:1d I have put; them in ::.ouch wieh tile officials of my department ~o supply them with the info~ation that they are seei<ing as to the plans of the oil indusuy that migh:: impact upon ehei: area . :~.

S?~~~ (Si~s ) : T~e hon . member for Tornqat ~ountains . . "'R. ~'L"":'l: Mr . Speaker, my question is addressee eo the ~li .niscer of Justice . In liqhc of the fact that a news report ye!l:terday ir<h'!t Happy Valley -Goose 3ay stat:ed that:. a •..orker with Nat~ve court: Wo rl<e::s Service in Labrador has tende red his resignatio."l because of lack of fl.nances from the provincJ.al/federal gover:une:1t, which I understand is sha red on a fifty/fifty basis , does the minister foresee any extra monies coming out in this budget allotted eo the native court ~~rkers in Labrador? 1420

~larc h 21,19 80 MR.SP EAKER (Simms) MR. OTTENHEIMER: Tape No. 539 1\. H-:!. The hen. Minister of Justice. Mr. Speaker, I think what the hen . member is referring to is the orga nization known as Labrad or Legal Services which is cost shared by both federal and provincial and which performs certain services especially to native population in Labrador, people in conflict with the law or who have business before the courts, and certainly that cost sharing and the policy of cost sharing will cont~nue.

The Minister of Finance (Dr.Collins) is looking ~t me very aggressively and would be very upset if I were to anticipate the Budget that he will be bringing down 1but certainly the principle of cost sharing and providing these services is a government policy on a continuing basis. MR . WARREN: A supplementar y , Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A suplementary. The hen. member for Torngat Mountains. MR . WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I understand that in 1979 there were some 107 files opened up by a particular lawyer with the Labrador Legal Services.

There were 107 cases or 107 files opened and not all were taken through the courts, but this particular lawyer was involved with 107 cases. Now as a result of his resignation 1 does the government have any plans of having some other lawyer to represent those cases or other cases that conceivably will occur in the year to come and at no great cost to the native population? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. Minister of Justice. MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr.

Speaker, actually a few weeks ago I met with representatives from Labrador Legal Services, approximately three or four weeks ago, and actually the possibility or indeed likelihood of that gentleman's resignation has been apparent for some time. I could probably point out that I was actually invited to go up ~his week to a meeting with Labrador Legal Services but with the House open I did no~ 1421

Karch 21,1980 ~R. OTTENREIMER: Tape No . 539 Al:i- 2 and ~lso not onlv with ~he 3ouse open , but also wi~t ce~tain Cabinet ma~ters going on a n~ Budge~ ~ee~in~s. e~c . , ! di~ ~ot wish to be away. I am :e?r~senced by che Deputy Minister of Justice and also a solicitor with the depa ~t mentt Z~ - Buckin qh amfwho has wo~ked wi~h Labrador Legal Services and they will be meeting during the ~ext couple of days . Obviously for a conti~uity of the service we will be seeking means to provide a means of continuing legal service. Now what that specific mechodology will be will be difficult to say .

Also , of course, there is an impor~anc role played in thac area by Legal Aid and this organizacion is di ~f erent from Legal Aid an~ during our discussion there cercainly could be perhaps an increased role for Lega1 Aid as well. HR . S?EA<G~ (SHD IS ) : The hoo. me mber for aumber Kesc, :allowed by che hon. member for St . 9arbe . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear ~ !1R . BAIRD: Mr. Speaker, I feel 1 have as muc h right in this Bouse to ask a question as anybody else. SOME HO~l . ME:M3.E:RS: 1•1R . BAIRD : direct - SOM-E EON . HEMBERS: ~tiL BAIRD : Speaker. Hear, h~ar!

I h a?e a question I would l ik e to Oh , oh~ If I can be heard in silence, ~r. 1422

March 21, 1980 Tape 540 EC - l MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Order, please! MR. R. BA!iiD: I have a question for the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. J. Morgan) • I understand that in the licences for the collll!lerci&l fishermen there are no changes this year. As there is considerable concern on the West Coast due to the number of fishermen and the rivers we have, are there any changes, or could you indicate if there are any changes contemplated with regard to sports fishermen? MR. SPEAKER: MR. J. MORG.l\N: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. That is a good question. I am surprised that nobody has asked it to date.

It is a major concern in the Western part of ~~e Province, because I have been receiving a number of 'phone calls the last few days regarding the same matter. The situation is that,according to the indications from the officials in ottawa, there will be no curtailment or restrictions on the sports fishery this yea~ the same as last year, and, of course, there is no restriction on the commercial fishery as well.

I am hoping that the situation will be as such, because poaching is a major concern in the reduction of salmon stocks and we feel that the people with licences on the rivers can carry out surveillance for us - and when I say 'us' , in this case, both levels of government with regard to conservation of the stocks. So we are hoping that there will be no restrictions this year in the sports fishery the same as there is in the commercial,no restrictions there as well. SOME HCIN. MEMBERS: MR. R. BAIRD: MR. SPEAKER: Humber West. MR. R.. BAIRD: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker, a supplementary.

A supplementary, the hon. the member for Again with reqard to the sports fishery, there have been some promises and talk of a sJ•lllll)!l hatchery on the Wast Coast. I wonder if, where and when that might come about? MR. SPEAKER.: MR. J. MORGAN : The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. Mr. Speaker, I think these questions should more appropriately be put to the federal minister - it is a federal matter. However, when the, fozmer Minister, Mr. McGrath, was 1423 ~

March 21, 1980 Tape 540 EC - 2 MR. J. MORGAN: there, we had some discussions on the possibility of establishing sal.Jnon hatcheries in the Province and indications then were that there were three locations chosen and out of these three locations, two of them were in the Western part of the Province. So I illll hopinq that Mr. LeBlanc will follow in the s.e guidance as Mr. McGrath had in that direction and will hopefully qet to work in establishinq a hatchery in the Western part of the Provinc.e sometime this year. MR. T. BENNETl': MR. SPEAKER (Si111111S) : MR. T. BENNETl': Mr. Speaker. The hon. the member for st.

Barbe. Mr. Speaker, lilY question is directed to the Minister of Consumer Affairs and Envi.rolllllent (Mrs. H. Newhook) and it is a follow-up to a question that was al;lked by my colleaque a few days ago. I have a letter from a constituent and I have had numerous telephone calls on discrepancies in the cost of heati.nq fuels. I have with me here a bill for January which is 69.35 gallons and in March it is 85.37 - this is on the Northern Peninsula. Dlle to the fact that there are no deliveries over the Winter period, I illll wondering if the minister - MR. NEARY: All in atorCLge. MR. T.

BENNETl': It is all in storage, there are no deliveries. It has all come from axistinq storaqe tanks like Imperial and Golden Eaqle and all the rest. I am WODder:inq it the minister is ,. 1424

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 541 DW - 1 MR. T. BENNETT: aware of this and if she is not aware of it would she have an investigation instituted into it and get the answers? Mr. Speaker, rather than a supplementary I would also like to at the same time ask ~he minister if there is a justification, if she could determine if there is a justification for the discrepancy in oil costs between the Avalon Peninsula and the Northern Peninsula· there is a discrepancy of at least ten cents per gallon to the consumer. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. Minister of Consumer Affairs and Environment. MRS. H. NEWHOO~: Mr.

Speaker, in response to the question put by the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr.Neazy) our department and the Department of Mines and Energy and our Department of Newfoundland Statistics, they have had a meeting. I think they met yesterday,and they are now setting up guidelines under which they will operate this type of survey. I think the Department of Mines and Energy did start a survey of this kind about three years ago and it was not completed and they will be looking at their files to deter- mine exactly how much data they did compile on it.

I think they will also be contacting the Department of Mines and Energy in Ottawa to see what they have done and the types of surveys they have made and what assistance they can give. They will be talking with Nova Scotia. They do monitoring, I think, in the supply of oil to the utilit¥ companies there.

And then, of course, there a~e so many levels that --- · --·· they are going to have to explore --then would be, I guess, the price of the oil at the wellhead and the price of the oil at the refinery level, the price then to the wholesalers and then the wholesalers to the distributors and then the price at the retail level, at the tanks. So they right now 1425

!".arc h 21 , 1980 Tape No. 541 ow - 2 MRS. B. NEWHOOK: are setting up guidelines under which t:hey will operate and will determine whether it _ is going to be province-wide or not. I think they will ~e contacting our bon. l'ramier to get some indications from him as to whether it has to be province-wide or for specific areas. So this committee has already started, they will he continuing on, they will have another meeting now in a few days, I think. MR • . SPEAKER (Simms~: Order, please! The time for Oral Ques~ion Period h.as expired. 1426

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 542 so - 1 MR. I.. STIRLING: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER ( Si~ms ) : A point of order, ~~e hon. member for Bonavista North. MR. L. STIRLING: The firs·t time that this happened, Mr. Speaker, could be by accident but I think you should note to me as a member of this House something that has happened, It certainly is not in agreement with any rules of debate that have been established, ~~e new rules fer ~~e efficient handling of the House. We have now a situation where the government either intentionally or accidentally is using up the Question Period by individual members.

And the point, Mr. Speaker, is that - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. L. STIRLING: - an officer of the House has used up part of the Question Period on essentially federal questions . Now, there is nothing that says that an individual - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The member is on a point of order. MR. L. STIRLING: On the point of order, Mr. Speaker, that Question Period traditionally is the only tice in the day when the Opposition has any control over questions that come up. The rest of the day is controlled by the government.

And if you are going to - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. L, STIRLING: - abuse the technicalities that a member is allowed to speak on a question, no question that an individual can not, but if this is. intentional on behalf of the government and if this is going to continue, then you can expect the Opposition to express its concerns using whatever rules can be used in the House, I bring this up as a point of order so that the House can be aware. and the government can be aware of the problems that they may be bringing up. 1427

March 21, 1980 SOME HON , MEMBERB : MR. L. THOMS: MR. SPEAKERCSI~~J MR. S. NEARY: MR. L. THOMS : MR. SPEAKER: MR. BAIRn: MR. SPEAKER : President of the Council. MR.. W. MARSJUILL: Tape ~o. 542 so - 2 Oh, oh! Abusing a member's privileges - Order please! To the point of - As a member of th.e House. (inaudible) cannot as questions. Order please! If you are representing Humber ~est. Order, please! To the point of order, the hon. the Mr. Speaker, you know you can be motivated to great heights after hearing a point of orde~ 1 made by the hon. member,of that t"!nor. l·:'hat the hon. member is doing, Mr.

SpeMer, when he gets up and makes a point of order is two things: First and foremost, he is challenging a ruling made by Your Honour with respect to the termination of :the Question Period which is a half hour. AN BON. MEMBER: Right on. MR. If • .MARSHALL: Now , I was about to say when the hon. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. o, Jamieson) wanted to ask a question by leave 1!t that particular time 1you would allow him to go on and I would certainly extend that to the hon.

Leader of the Opposition who has shown such co-operation but when he goes and the hon. member seeks the leadership of the Party, God help this House, if this is the type - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. w. MARSHALL: - of way the hon. member that is number one, Hr. Speaker. But number two, first and foremost, I can tell the hon. member that any member of this House, on any side, can ask the ministry, and have had this right ingrained since the days of the inception of British de.ocracy to ask questionS of the ministry, that is number one.

And nuriler twa, in the days -·-- -- when the hon. melliler was glorifying the first Reich after Confederation and could think of nothing else, there was no ouestion Period . This 1428

March 21, 1980 MR. W. MARSHALL: in by this Party and government - SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. W. MARSI'.ALL' Tape No. 542 SD- 3 Question Period has been brought Hear, hear. - for the benefit of the hen. gentleman in the Opposition, for the benefit of the hon. members in the government. backbenchers' and for the benefit of the furtherance of democracy in this Province. SO~ HON • MEI'!BERS : Hear, hear. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! To the point of order, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. ¥~. D. J~~ESON: First of all, Mr.

Speaker, I do not know why on a simp~e procedural point which the hen. member for Bonavista Nort.'l (Mr. Stirling) )J had every right to make to get clarification upon, I do not know why it suddenly has to deteriorate once again with the member for St. John's East (Mr. w. Marshall) getting into what I described before as a confrontational stance. MR. S. NEARY: (Inaudible) your own mind. MR. D. JAMIESON: I think, Mr. Speaker, that you would know and the hon. member knows and all of us here know that private members of this House have the right to ask questions to the ministry.

That is a standard practice. l!ut it is also and my hon. friend should look this up and I hope you will, Mr. Speaker, that there are also certain constraints which are placed upon the rights of members on the government side in all parliaments of which I am aware, to ensure that there is not an abuse of this particular technique which is essentially and historically, Sir, I am sure you would agree, designed for the Opp<Jsition.

A couple of those construnts and my hen. f-;; ~!!~ - I call him the word 'friend' in the most open fashion - I suspect is probably in a way restrained in his capacity to ask questions for one reason at least that I would like to see so- 1429

~! arc h 21 , 1980 Tape. NC. 54 3 NM- 1 M..l't. JAMIESON: check on the rules on, because he is , in fact,an officer of this House and that there are limitations upon him. There are certain other limitations - MR. BARRY: No. NO. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : ord e::o, pl ea se ! MR. JA..I\UESON: once again I find, Mr. Speaker, you see this is the point. I am not arguing this question. I am asking can we have a ruling on it.

In some jurisdictions, and I cite if I may, New zeala ndand Australia I believe are two, if a person hE-s a speeial status on the governme nt side, either as a parliamentary secretary or an assistant to a minister, or as an officer of the House, they are restricted very clearly in their ability to ask questions. Mr. Speaker, I cite another example, and that is that there are jurisdictions, I believe the majority, in which private members on the government side may ask a question, a~e not, however, permitted a supplementary question.

I believe Your Honour will find that there are plenty of examples where that kind of thing is in force and understood, and clearly the reason is what my hon. friend frqm Bonavista North (Mr. Stirling) properly brouqht up, namely,that if indeed by its very presence as the government there are more members on the government side and if they should, Sir, have unrestricted ability in the Question Period to ,be recognized,let us say on an alterna .tive basis, then 1of course ,it reduces at the ve.ry least by half the amount of time that is available to the opposition.

May I also point out, Sir, that there are jurisdictions where,in addition to the restrictions that I have mentioned, the limitation is put on the number of questions, either per day, per session, or per ~ek, which exclusively p:a;-ivate members on the government side may ask. So I think it is appropriate, in making this comment I say that it has not been abused by hon. members oppo .site up to now, and I am making these points because I think it is - it will be helpful to have a ruling as to whether or not, or under what circumstances,for example, 1430

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 543 NH - 2 MR. J~~IESON: that membars opposite who are private merr~ers may ask ques~ions. I think the precedents are there, Sir, and I think it would be helpful if you were not necessarily immediately but perhaps after examining the precedents, to give a ruling on just exactly what the situation is. PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : P~SMIER PECKFORD: To that point of order. The hon. the Premier to the point of order. Hr. Speaker, I think this is a mountain, you know somebody is making a mountain out of a molehill.

What bothers me most about this point of order, and I would have said exactly the s~~e thing and perhaps more in response to the point of order if I had gotten up at the time that the Government House Leader got up, because the hon. member for Bonavista North (Mr. Stirling) albeit that he was trying to make a clear point about government members getting up, did imp~ that there was some deliberate attempt on behalf of the administration to take time away from Opposition members in asking questions. MR. NEARY: All true . MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER PECKFORD : Now the hon. member for Bonavista North did imply that, and anybody who has an ear to hear in this hon. House that is what the hon. member was saying. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: So first of al~ let us clearly understand what the han. member for Bonavista North said in his point of order. Now 1 if the hon. member for Banavista North wants to get up and make a point of order,abviously 1 it is th~ right of any member, but let us nat as members lower the dignity of this institution by implying certain things on which there is no evidence to show that such is the case.

I did nat know in my wildest dreams yesterday that the member far Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) was going to ask a question. I did nat know in my wildest dreams that the member for Humber West (Mr. Baird) was going to ask a question, nor should I know, Mr. Speaker. These members 1431

~!ar~;!l 21. 1980 Tape No . 543 NM - 3 PR!':mER PEClC'ORD : in the ~<;k~nches he~e have a ~ ight to ask quesdcns of the mi:U.strz- on things that a:-e i."!\port:am: to t.hei:: districts. SO HE liON. ~!EMBERS : ?RE:I-Ir:ER PECKFO?D: Hear, hear ! BuL I can also go on co say, and ! kr.ow I speak fo:: every member on this side of the !::!ouse , we will no:: , .'UIC t.his bac~ch will not abuse che Qu .escion Period co cut off members on the ot.her side from having their legitimate ques.:ions ask.ec! .

And thirdly , as evidence for chat, let me point to this House and the Question ?erioe ir. this Hau'!Oe sl.nce this a~~nistracion cook office. SOME HCN. ~IE!·~ERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSH¥J.: Mr. Speaker, if I may. MR. SP_!!:AKER (Simms) : With respect to th~ point of order, I believe I have heard ~nough debate at least at this point in time to make a ruling. First of all,in my opinion there are probably two matters raised here, one is with respect to an officer of the House or somebody who performs the duties of' an o.fficer of the House. and make comments on at a later sitting.

That I will check With respect to the original point of order raised by the han. member for so ·navista North (Mr. Stirling) let me say this; first of all it is my clear understanding, and I am sure it is of all members of the House, that any private member of the House has a right and a privilege to ask a question of the ministry. I think the rules are quite clear, the Standing Orders do not disallow a member on the go.'Q'enunent side asking a question. So in that respect ;;my member may ask a question. 1432

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 544 EL - 1 MR. SPEA!<ER (Simms) : While it may appear to ~e unusual, it certainly is not improper nor out of order and there are other pre­ cedents in many legislatures across this country, the House of Commons in particular, where government members do frequently ask questions of ~~e Ministry, albeit, they may be questions pertaining to their own area and that is probably the reason why they generally do seek the floor. So with those few comments, I would have to rule that there is no point of order on the point of order raised by the hon. member for Bonavista North. SOME HON.

MEMSERS: Hear, hear. MR. W. MARSHALL: I just want to add, if I could, just one thing because the hon. Leader of the Opposition, you know, pointed out as he understood the procedure in other jurisdictions, in New Zealane, Australia and Canada, etc., and I would just like to put this to Your Honour for your guidance in addressing the question that Your Honour has indicated he is going to take under advisement. I refer to Beauchesne, page 134, paragraph 370 and this is the only reference I can see in Beauchesne having any prohabition with respect to answering questions of the Ministry.

"Those such as Parliamentary Secretaries who are clothed with the responsibility of answering for the Government ought not to use the time of the Question Period for the privilege of asking questions of the Government. " AN HON. MEMBER: Purposes MR. MARSHALL: - for purposes of asking questions of the Government. Now, I think that is the line of reasoning that the hon. the Leader of the Opposition -was referring to when he rose. The fact of the matter is, you have two functions in this House, either to answer ques't.ions or to ask t::~am.

And if somebody has the duty to answer questions from time to time, obviously they cannot ask them. But if the corollary applies, if they have not got a duty they have, not only a duty but a 1433

March 21 , 1980 Tape No. 544 EL - 2 MR. W. MARSHALL: responsibility to ask questions at the interests of the constituencies. So I just pass that quotation on to Your Honour so you can consider it - DR. COLLINS: And therefore clear it for ~~e hon. member for Humber West. MR. w. MARSHALL: - to clear the point brought out by the Opposition. And the hen. member for Humber West, of course, is not - PREMIER PECKFORD: A Parliamentary Secretary. MR. W. MARSHALL: - under any obligation nor can he answer any questions on behalf of the Ministry at any time, so therefore he can ask questions. l'.N liON. MEMBER: MR. W.

MARSHALL: Honour in his deliberations. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Hear, hear. I would hope that would assist Your I will accept that submission and I will accept the submission from the hon. the Leader of the Opposition then we will dispose of the matter. MR. D.JAMmSON: Well, I agree, I really did not have any intention of getting up again and I do not know why, again, the hon. member for st. John's East did not leave it to Your Honour's discretion. What I said and there seems to be a lot of confusion this morning about motives and all the rest of it - is there are two governing things.

There is Beauchesne and I said that there is no arglllllent on that score that meabers have. I said by practice, in a variety of jurisdictions, that speakers use a particular kind of dis=etion. And what I am saying is that it is, I submit, Sir, your responsibility, and I am sure you recognize it and have carried it out impeccably , that the Question Period is basically for the members of the Opposition.

I would agree with the Premier, inci­ dently, that we are not talking abour orchestrated responses or anything of that sort but it is to avoid that kind of thing, I think, that the speakers generally make the Question Period primarily available to the Opposition, that is all I was saying. 1434

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 544 EL - 3 MR. SPEAKER: (S~s) ~ I thank the hon. members for their submissions. I think I have heard enough to enable me to make a further ruling. I have allowed one from each 3ide. M."l.. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Another point of order? MR. S, NEARY : Well, you can call it a point ~f order, if you like Sir, but when my hon. friend stood up - MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. S. NEARY: - the hon. President of Council stood up, Sir, he rose on a point of privilege. An~ I believe Your Honour has to deal with that.

This is the technique that he used to make the sub­ mission. He said a point of privilege, Your Honour, and I am not telling Your Honour how to run the House but I believe Your Honour has to deal with the point of privilege. MR. SPEAKER: I appreciate ~~e hon. member's s~- mission. I will have to check Hansard. I assumed he stood on a point of order. MR. NEARY: AN HeN. MEMBER: MR. SPEAKER: and I appreciate your comments. MR. S. NEARY: he did say point of privilege. MR. SPEAKER: No, a point of privilege. He said privilege.

Your ears are sharper than mine this morning It was a foolish point of privilege but Thank you very much. Presenting Reports by Standing ar.d Special Committees? The hon. the Minister of Justice. MR. G. O'l"I'ENHEUIER: Mr. Speaker, it will be recalled that a few days ago I tabled a poll referred to in the Auditor General's Report.

Since then I have had a chat with the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee t<: maJte sure what I tabled and what was in the hands of the Public Accounts Committee was the same thing because obviously the House should have what the Committee of the House has and there are some , I a» not sure what you would call it, ancillary material or 1435

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 544 EL - 4 MR. G. O'l'TENHEIMER: whatever it is which the Public Acoounts Committee has and so that everybody has the same thing, to avoid confusion I think I should table this as well. I think the cost of llii.Dieoqraphing all of this for all hom.. members might cost more that the poll did - or reproduct it. MR· D. JAMIESON: Making copies for all the members, I do not believe it is necessary. 1436

March 21, 1980 PREMIER PECl<FORD: MR. D. JAMIESON: that. MR. W. MARSHALL: ·MR. OTTENHEI!!ER: something like that. MR. W. MARSP.ALL: them. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Tape 545 EC - 1 No. I think it is a waste. I agree with Okay, well, could we have one copy each? A copy or two copies for each side, If members want them they can ask for Order, please! I would like to welco:ne to the galleries on behalf of all hen. m~~ers, the Mayor and four members of the Bell Island Town Council. SOME HON. MEMllERS : Hear, hear! PRESENTING PETITIONS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Baie Verte - White Bay. SOME HON.

MEMBERs : Hear, hear! MR. T. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I rise this morning to present a petition signed by 102 residents of the community of Nipper's Harbour in Green Bay in my district. The prayer of the petition is: "We, the undersigned residents of Nipper's Harbour, respectfully request that the ten miles of gravel road to Nipper's Harbour be upgraded and paved. The development of industry, fishing and shipbuildinq,in particular, is beinq hindered by ro&d conditions and there is also the problem with the businq of students from Nipper' a Harbour to attend school in La.Scie." Mr ·.

Speaker, in supporting the petition, just let me say briefly that I cannot think of any other community in the Province where the people are so reasonable in requests that they aake to government. I remember only three or four years ago that the community council of Nipper's Harbour came in h£re and just asked for a few loads of ~avel. I believe the bon. the member for Bonavista South (Mr. J, Morgan) was then the Minister of Transportation and Communications. They have not been an unreasonable people at all. The request is very reasonable. 1437

March 21, 1980 Tape 545 EC - 2 MR. T. RIDEOUT: National Sea Products, the operators of the parent fish plant at LaScie, are now proceeding to, I understand, open a semi-processing unit in Nipper's Harbour, so that will mean the quality of fish that must be brought from that community to the parent plant is going to be very important for the future development of that industry.

The busing of students, again, as I have mentioned, from that community to L&Scie is certainly a factor. those people are very reasonable, they do not expect that this is going to be done overnight, but I do believe that they expect, rightfully, Sir, that the government heed their concerns, that some attention be paid to doing something with that road. It is a very long, narrow, winding road going through very difficult terrain. I believe it is imperative that government put it on its priority list.

On behalf of the people ?f ·Nipper's Harbour, I support the petition, table it and ask that it be referred to the department to which it relates. MR. J. MORGAN: Kr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: MR. J. MORGAN : support of that petition. The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. I would like to say a few words in Just recently, I was in Nipper's Harbour and met with the Fishermen's Committee down there and a number of other fisherlllen besides the coamittee. And 1 met with the owner and operator of the shipyard and saw the opera tiona thers bein9 carried on by Kr. Tony Noble and company.

It seems like a very progressive little COIIIIIIWlity. I know one thin9, it is a very scenic and very beautiful little co111111unity. The people there, as mentioned by the hon. gentleman putting fonrard the petition .. are not really demanding people. They are not really aggressive in demanding but they are merely askin9 for consideration in the UP9rading and paving eventually of that road. As -ntioneci, there are plans now by National Sea to build a new fish plant, to establish an operation this year. We just recently - in fact, the last couple of weeks - 9ave 1438

March 21, 1980 Tape 545 EC - 3 l.fR. J. MORGAN: National Sea a processinq licence to operate in Nipper's Harbour this year and we will be doinq everything possible to assist them .in reqard to qettinq the operation qoinq. So this petition from the residen'bi of Nipper's Barbour, I think, is a petition we should look at. I know that there are qoinq to be lots of demands this year on my colleague, the Minister of TriUlsportation (Mr. c. Brett) for road work, as avery year. There are lots of gravel roads around the Province that need upqradin<J and paviit<J.

But I am sure that my colleague will give the petition every consideration. However, one thing I would like to see in the future - and I have discussed this with my colleague, the Transportation minister, and, in fact, previous ministers - I think that we should look at qivinq some kind of priority in upqradinq and pavin<J of roads that lead to resources or lead to a place of employment and lead to potential development. In this case, we are talltin<J about the road to Nipper' s Harbour. Mr. Speaker, I support the petition and I am sure that this administration will <Jive the petition every consideration. MR. S.

NEARY: Mr. Speaker. 1439

March 21,1980 MR.SPEAKER (Simms) MR. NEARY: Tape No. 546 AH-1 Th~ hen. member for La~oile. Mr. Speaker, I +:.hird the petition and I hope we will not have to wait for the oil to come ashore before the people down in Nipper~ Harbour get their road. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. SPEAKER: Order 11: Second reading of a bill, "An Act To Protect The Environment Of The Province By Providing For Environmental Assessment." (Bill No. 13) If the han. minister speaks now she will close the debate: I am sorry, the hon. member for Kilbride. SOME HON.MEMBER£: Hear, hear! MR.

AYLlvARD: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. First I wish to congratulate tte minister on the introduction of Bill 13 to this House. It is a bill which I consider to be long overdue and I am quite happy to see that it has been introduced in this House. The government's position on this type of bill has been clearly outlined in the Throne Speech on page 10 and it reads; " Unparalleled natural development and rapid expansion of our economy will place newand potentially dangerous stresses on both our natural and social environments.

Inqeed,as resources are developed 1 it seems inevitable that changes of a physical and social nature will t~ke place. However, we must be careful, in each instance, first, to evaluate both the benefits of resource and economic development and its consequential environmental, social and economic impacts. Only then should we decide on a rational basis( whether the resource or econ~mic developm~nt 1n question is justified. Insofar as the preservation of our natural environment is concerned, My Government,in this session 1will introduce." And this is one of the bills which was mentioned in the 1440

:'.ar ch 21 ,1980 Tape No.S45 :.a -2 MR . AYL I\ARD : Thr one Speech . ~h is go v e rnm e ~~ · s pos ition is a po s~tion wh~ch I am very proud to be able to su?po rc in this Hou se, Mr. Sp eaker . I would like to ;l so cong ratulate the hon . member for Torngat Kountains (M r.War ren) , who is not here right no~ . on ~is excelle n ~ spee=h yesce rday, a speech t~hich r certair .ly na ·1e a feel for.

I hac th e op porcuni cy this year to vis ic a great deal of the hon. memb~r 's di stri ct while trave lling th roughout ou r Province witb the Fl ag Commit tee and ! can see that a develo;::ne:tt to su::::h an extent. as t.he uranium de-velopmen1: 1.n :.!akkovik woula have grea ca social impact on this area . The people - 1 would be able to only phrase it as 'they have a wo rld cf their own and th ey seem co be qui ~ e happy in this wo rld .

They have their own envi ronment and ~hey are afraid that it is goin to be dest royed by any type of development such as &his ura ni um development . ~he hon.memb•r for the Torngat Moun tain s sugge ste d that the ?e well Report was br ought on mor e by public pressure fro m rssidents of the area than by the government brin;ing i~ on. ! am not sur e if th is i s che cas e bu c I wo uld like co say if it is 1 how lucky we are as a Provin ce to have a ~ overnmenc who wil l l ist en to peopl e wh en they bring their concerns be for e the gove rnm ent and will act upon them . MR . PAT TE!<SON : Hear, hear! MR.

AYLWARD: ~he hon. member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. warren) also quoted from a report, I believe it was from BRINEX, and he was noting that this report pointed out several places ol concern and they said that it is unsafe, certain things were unsafe and certain things were going to be looked at as much as possible. No~ this phrase 'as much as possible' is not satisfactory in my mind and I am certain that the hon. member for Torngat Mountains would not say that it was acceptable and he did not. But as far as the report is concerned, a 1441

Harch n , l98 0 Tage :<o. S46 A:l- 3 ~!R . AY!. "IhR O : report ~hat points o~t Cif= ic ~ 1cie a and points out dang e rs is mu ch more im?ortan~ to me ~han - ! would be more concerned about a report ~ha t did not show any dange=s and did not s how an y points c= possible ~a~ge r to t he soc i ety . Mr . Spea ker, I have 1 ever s ince r began t o wo rk whe n I go t out off high school had quit:e a n interest in th e environm ent mostly because of my own association wic:h the e n7ironm e nt . Bein; a land su.rveyor ! have spent more of my WQrking life outdoors than insije .

I gu ess you might say that I have been in the wocds a gre at p art of ~y l if e but not in t h e dark. Mr . Speaker, I wcul~ like to relate an instance which ha?pene~ to me since ! started to work in 1965 or 1966 when I was a student su r veyor . The f i rst major jo b on which ! worked was the job for the planning and preliminary survey work in the Victoria Lake - Howley Lake area ·,;hich is a part of the g r eat 3ay d '!:!spoir development .

On my first visit ~o t h is Vicc: oria Lake area,although it was not what ~ would call virg i n countr y, there was limited developmenc, there we re s o me forest access roa d s, some cut ­ over areas and yet it wa s scill a very beautiful country. 1442

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 547 DW - 1 MR. R. AYLWARD: After working in this area we went by sea plane and canoe into an area which I would call the Burnt Pond, Spruce Pond Granite Lake area. In this area there were many caribou. quite a lot of partridge, ducks, geese, moose, martenr beaver, very good fishing and most of al::. . the countryside in this area was untouched and unsc:arred, by any human activity. I would say that I walked areas that Summer that had never been visited by humans before.

Maybe some of the Micmac: Indians from the South coast had been in this hut not very many of European descent~ Some of the )iicmacs did use this area for hunting , I understand, and trapping. Everything in that country, Mr. Speaker, that late Summer and Fall seemed to be alive. The rivers, the barrens, the trees~ ~~ey all seemed to be in harmony with each other. I suppose if there is anthing on this area, earth that ! would consider to be as close to Heaven as possible it would be that part of the country when I visted some ten - fif- teen years ago. It was extremely beautiful.

Five years ago I was fortunate e~ough to be chosen for a big game hunter's licence and I was lucky enough to get it in this same area, the first time I had been back to this area since before the develop::nent. The first thing I noticed when I got to Red Indian Lake was that compared to the first time I~was there it seemed to me like ~t was almost driec up~ There was quite a change in this laker Sooe of the effect vas the diversion of Victoria Lake, Howley Lake water. I guess there were other effects.! I~ happened to be a dry Summer so this was also !one of the effects.

We went from Red Indian Lake 1 100 miles, by woods roads and construction roads. 'nlese roads were littered with car wrecks, garbaqe buckets or oil drums, abandoned construction sites, certainly not what was there when I was in this area before. We came to 1443

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 547 DW - 2 M!'.. R. ALYWARD: an area which is known as Burnt Ridge near Burnt Pond. whole country was changed. There were huge sides of mountains taken out and quite a bit of the country was flooded. Huge canals were built, mountainsides l ·were left as open-pits an:i gz;.avel pits_ the gravel was being used to build dykes and the like. There were many dead trees littered around the edges of the shores because there was no cuttinq before the areas were flooded.And all of the areahad changed drastically from the time I was there.

No~ this area of our Province is still one of the most beautiful parts of Canad~ in my mind, and there are still some caribou t~ere and some moose, some partridge, water fowl are t.~ere at times, but, Mr. Speaker, it is not nearly what it used to be. The most drastic change is the scarring of the countryside. How fortunate this Province would have been if a bill similar to Bill'l3 had been I introduced some fifteen years ago because there are steps in a development such as the Bay D'Espoir development - and I would like to make it clear now that I am not against development.

I certainly think that the Bay d' Espoir development is necessary and if it had not been done at that time it certainly would have to be done now~ But there are steps that can be taken to protect our environ- ment while we develop our Province to protect the general well-being of our Province, our env~ronment and the whole people as a society. Mr. Speaker, there aT~ ==~e questions I have on Bill 13.just as points of clarification. \ I will just . list ~hem and the minister when she is clueing up this date might be able to answer them, iome of the~questions I have undoubtedly 1444

Ma=ch 21, 1980 Tape No. 548 NM - 1 ~lR. AYLWARD: - --.- -·----- are caused by my inability to read a~ act and understand it perfectly. I can read the purpose in the explanatory notes of these acts but sometimes when one

section relates to another, and another and another, you want to memorize it to understand it. So some of my ~uestio~s are probably answered in this act, but just as a clarification.

One of the things that I would like to know is how does this act affec~ the developments that will take place within a cit y, not a big large development ,or in the jurisdiction of a town where the town might have jurisdiction to control or to give a permit] Would these cities, or the developers- I know it says everyone has to apply here- but would these developers still ha7e to check with t~e Department of the Envirorunent to see if this assessment will be necessary?

Particularly with towns and the like 1 I would be concerned about certain projects, even a project such as installing water and sewer and having the effluent go into a pond or a lake, or somewhe=e. Maybe treatment plants could come under this here. I think if we had more treatment plants in our Province it certainly would be a great thing although I realize that there is an expense.

One of the failings of most Newfoundlanders to date, in my mind, is that the general population seems to think that we have lots of water, and we have lots of vacant land, and we have lots of wildlife, we do not need to be as strict as sometimes government regulati.ons make it. Sometimes our wildlife regulations seem to be unnecessarily limiting traveller access to the country. Generally we think that we have a lot but it does not take long to spoil cur environment unless we have bills such as Bill 13.

If the impact statement is prepared 1and this also might be a misunderstanding on my behalf 1 but if the impact statement is prepared and a group or a person disagrees with the findings of this impact statement it would be a substnatial expense for them. 1445

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 548 NM - 2 MR •• 1\.YLWA..~: to prove their part of the argument. I could not see anything in the act that would help thern,maybe financially 1to prove their point of the argument, sL~ilar to what was done for the mayors and municipalities, I believe when they tried to intervene against a l1ydro rate increase. I think there was some money allotted them, and paid for by Hydro,! believe,when they tried 11aybe sections 27 and 26 would deal with this but I am not sure now. There is one thing in

section l3 {3), {

c) and {d) , the word "reasonably" is used several times,

Section 13 (

c) says; "the present environment that ·"ill be affected or that might reasonably be expected to be affected," is one area -..here it is used. And "the effects that would be caused or that might reasonably be expected to be caused." This word "reasonably" is not defined in

section 1. I would like to know,who is this 1reasonably'supposed to refer to because I might consider something reasonable and the developer of a parcel of land next to me might not consider it to be very reasonable, if I happen to have a different point of view than he does. So if these things are reasonable to the enviro~~ent, or to the commission or bOard that is being set up, maybe that would solve it 1 or if the}• are reasonable to the minister .,:aut if they are reasonable to anyone, such as a developer, certain developers would take a different point of view on certain projects rather than a position which would be taken by a conservationist or a wildlife group. In

section 18 (l) (a), 1while I was skimming th.rough 1I noticed another

section that I think dealt with this; "Upon ~·eceiving the impact statement, the minister shall direct that copies"­ people get a chance to answer the impact statement and to make comments on it~ I just want to know if there is a time limit suggested or will be suggested in the regulations as to how long they will have to reply?

Section 21, which is a very minor concern of 1446

~lar:::h 21, 1980 Tape ~Jo. 5~8 mr- 3 c1."-. A'{LivARD: mine, it would depend en how Qany applica-tions ~:ith rega~d to chis act that the :n.inister might hdve, but se:::tion 21 is a

section which similarly exists now in the Crown Lands .. 11.c~ where if you make an application for Crown lands 1 4 4 7

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 549 SD - l MR. R. AYLWARD: you have to submit your application to Crown Lands and they distribute it to all other government departments. Now, I would say that this distribution between all departments is one of the major causes of delays for Crown Lands applications although they are getting better in the past couple of years 1 b·,J.t this is one of the delays because each department has so much to do, the Crown ~ands application might be sitting on the desk for quite some time.

Maybe I also misunderstand this but I would say that if there is a large development and thexe is an assessment to be made of this development .~,at it be the responsibility of a department which this would effect to come to the minister or come to the Department of Environment and then any departments that this assessment would not have any hearing on would not have to be bothered or would not necessarily go to the department. It might be eliminated sometime. Another thing, r wonder what volume of assessments is anticipated, what is the scope?

I know it says here,again,that everyone has to apply to the minister and the minister might decide that there are some exemptions. I would like to know what volume is anticipated of applications? Will this be on projects of over a certain dollar val.ue in development or will, say, <L 100 lot subdivision which happens to he close to Rennies River in St. John's, will this also have to be submitted to the Depart:ment of Environment and either the minister would suggestthat an impact statement would be necessary or she could say that this was exel!Pt.

I just wonder how many applications are anticipated:' The hon. member for Port au Port (Mr. J. Hodder), he is not here now, MR. J. MORGAN: on this side now. MR. AYLWARD: Yes, he is over here, he is over Oh~ 1448

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 549 SD - 2 ~. R. AYLWARD: He made some comment ?esterday on the new Access Road to Burgee and it is interference with or disturbing of the caribou population down there and I certainly would like to agree with his idea that we have to educate people to make them aware of these caribou herds on such roads as the Burgeo road. There is another area of our Province where the caribou come quite close to the highway and that is on the Southern Shore near st. Shotts. The caribou come very close to the highway there in the SWTIIIertime.

T1ley are not poached or distnrbed very much, maybe because this is a busy area and mere likely you would be caught. The fact that we have a road going near or through a caribou herd could be used to our advantage becaus~ people who are not hunters and who probably would never see caribou might like to take a drive down there or maybe some tourist tours - some out-of-Province people - could be taken into areas like ~his so that ~hey can see our wildlife. I am certain it would be a novelty for someone from New York to drive along one of our highways and see suchgreat herds of caribou or any wildlife.

The member for Port au Port (Mr. J. Hodder) and also our Premier yesterday made reference to highway development. Now, I certainly would like to see highway development come under this,cr recommendations be made that when cur highways are being developed that our countryside is not left scarred by open gravel pits and the like. There are steps being taken and I notice on cur rebuilding of the Trans­ canada Highway last year that you said Atlantic Hydro Seed people were re-seeding some of these gravel pits and I must say it really improves the situation.

Ancther example of an excellent highway prcject 1 as far as I am concerned, is this downtown Arterial Road which runs along the southside Hills. There was a lot of thought put into it and it did not leave the countryside damaged or scarred for the rest of time. 1449

Harch 21, 1980 Tape ~o. 549 SD - 3 ~1R. R. AYL,.;A..'W: 1 guess I will clu:::: ~p my re:oarks on this Ei:!.l right now but o:1ce again I ""auld :!.ike to congratulate the rr1iniste= and the gov·ernment for bringing in sue::. a till as Bill No. l.?. Thank you. 1450

March 21, 1980 SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : closes debate on the bill. Affairs and Environment. MRS. H. NEWHOOK: Tape 550 EC - l Hear, hear! If the minister speaks now, she The hon. the Minister of Consumer Mr. Speaker, I wish tc t~ank all the hen. members of the Opposition who have responded to this bill, who have expressed their concerns and who have expressed a desire to support this bill. And, of course, I do appreciate ~e response from my hen. colleagues on this side of the House who have stressed the virtues of the bill.

They have spoken on ~~e benefits it will bring to the people of our Province and the protection that it will give to our envirorment. And, of course, I wis;l to thank our hen. Premier, who has described the scope and the flexibility of the bill. Now, Mr. Speaker, the main thrust of ~~is bill is that environmental assessment is required for virtually every type of public or private undertaking which has the potential of causing significant environmental impacts. And, of course, Mr.

Speaker, all hen. ~mbers know and I know that there are some projects which have never caused any environmental problems and which we know, never will, and which can be exempted from the provisions of this act. These can be taken care of by being listed in the regulations which will be drawn up under this act and which will be approved by Cabinet, not just the minister, Mr. Speaker. There are clas&es of small projects which require to be licenced for various departments and by departments of government interested in this particular project.

These are being controlled now by an internal deferral system whereby the undertakings c:cmi.nq under the juriadiction of one department are referred to other departments having an interest in that particular underUking, and, of course, approval from all departmenta has to be obtained before a licence is given. I do not see anything wrong with such undertakings being taken care of in this way in the future. 1451

March 211 1980 Tape 550 EC - 2 MRS. H. NEWHOOK: Aqain , Mr. Speaker, as ow: Premier pointed out, there are undertakings no matter how small, which 111ay be subject to environmental assessment under certain circumstances, and, of course, all of these have to be registered. I de> not aqree with the hon. the melllber for LaPoile (Mr. Neary), that the minister is all-powerful. MR. S • NEARY: There was another qroap said that 1as well. MRS. H,. NEWHOOK: Mr.

Speaker, I would wish to point out to ~ that the minister has an assessment committee to advise her on. the evaluation of the environmental impact study which has been prepared by the proponent. This ccmmittee consists of lliolcqists and. environmental technicians of our department, resource people from provincial and federal departments of qovernment havinq a concern in the particular undertaking - AN BON. MEMBER: Riqht. MRS. H. NEWOOK: - and other expertise peOple with professional knowledge pertinent to the undertaking.

For instance 1 our presently working assessment committee consists of representatives from the Department of Mines and Energy, from the Department of Lands and Forests 1 from the Department of Wildlife, Tourism, Department of Industrial Development, Econamic Research and Analysis, Fisheries, Department of Health, Department of Manpower and Labour and, of c:Ourse, our own biolcqists and our own envirosunental technicians. ~ in addition • 1452

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 551 EL - 1 MS. H. NEWHOOK: to this, to ~hese people rather. We do have on this committee a doctor from the Department of Biology, Memorial University, we have a representative from the Canadian Forestry, Environment Canada. We have a representative from the Atomic Energy Control Board, a doctor from the Department of Sociology at Memorial University and we have the Canadian Department of Fisheries and Environment. And I feel this is a Committee which is a very, very strong backup to the Minister. MR. NEARY : Would the hon. minister permit a question? I'.S.

NEWHOOK: I would further- Yes, go ahead. MR. SPEAKER (SIM!-'.S) : The hon. me~ber for LaPoile, with leave. ~R. S.

NEARY: I would like to ask the minister if all the representation that was received from the various biologists that the minister is referring to 1 their regional biologists and so forth, if their recommendations were accepted by the minister and by the IJ!!partl!lent before this Bill was brought into the House or were their recOmmendations that I have here in front of me that are not in the Bill, were they just ignored by the minister, including too much power in the hands of the minister, by the way. MR. SPEAKER: (SIMMS) The hon. the Minister. MS • H. NEWHOOK: I have missed the point. MR.

SPEAKER(SIMMS): The hon. the Member for LaPoile. MR. S. NXARY : After presentations were made ~c the minister, before the Bill came in it was circulated to the biologists who were asked for their recommendations and their comments. And they made recommendations and comments that were not incorporated into the Bill. , Why were they not listened to? If the minister said we had these people on the coll'llllittee', why were not their reco!DD'.endations incorporated into the Bill? MS. H. NEWHOOK: Well, Sir, this Bill was drafted before we had the J'.dvisory Committee, I think.

This is the Advisory Committee I am talking about now, which has been assessing the BRINEX proposals and this was written before. Mr. Speaker, I would 1453

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 551 EL - 2 MR. H . NEWHOO K: further emphasize that the power of the minister is mostly in ensurina that the assessment process is carried through to completion ~nd when there is suffieient public interest in the undertaking and in the assess- ment, the minister recommends to Cabinet to appoint an impartial •Ublic Assessment Board to conduct public hearings. And the report and the recommendations of the Board are submitted to the mini~r and then by the minister to the Lieutenant-Governor in Council. And I might also stress, Mr.

Speaker, ' that this report is made available to any interested persons and recommendations of the minister as to the environmental acceptabili~y of the undertaking are considered by Cabinet and it is Cabinet ar.c not the minister which makes the final decision. Mr.

Speaker, to further respond to the hon. member for LaPoile {S.Neary), I would like to say ~hat actually it is the public who will make putlic hearings mandatory and even before the hearing takes place, the public or the Fishermens Union or all kinds of groups and organizations may participate ir. the environmental process of any undertaking by meeting with or writing to the proponent or by contacting the minister,expressing their con- cerns, asking questions of the proponent and actually receiving and supplying information. MR. 5. NEARY: Where do they get the money to prepare their case against - MS • H.

NEWHOOK: I think we have given money already toiinterveners to go ahead and participate. MR. S. NEARY • wrll you be making funds available iA the future for groups who want to - MS.. H. NEWHOOK: That is something, Sir, that will have to be. a policy of government and I really cannot - MR. S • NEARY : There is no policy. MS • H. NEWHOOK: - give, there is no specified policy on it ~,ELI!I:ft!-1111... MR. S. NEARY : Right on. 1454

March 21,1980 Tape No. 551 EL - 3 MS. H. NEWHOOK: In reply to the hon. member from the Strait· of Belle Isle(E. Roberts), :r wish to say that, of course the minister mast use discretion - all ministers do. There will be W1dertakings which can be exempted from the provisions of this Act. For instance, supposing a:n undertaking similar to one which has already qone tbrouqh the environmental assessment process and "'--e have all the necessary 1455

!'larch 21, 1980 Tape No. 552 DW - 1 MRS. NEWHOOK: information, and all t:<, has been gathered_. surely it would not be expected to have to go through the e:~act same process again. Also 1 there will be some classes of undertakings where the impact upon the environment is already known and an environ­ mental impact study and assessment would not be necessary and the undertaking could be allowed to go ahead subject to conditions and stipulations. And these would be defined,of course,and anti pollution equipment wo~ld have to be installed and monitoring take place.

I am thinking now of such thincrs as possibly a g~avel pit or fish plant or it could be a hennery or these types of things. all of which now, at the present time,are subject to the provisions of our Consumer and Environmental Act. Another point raised by the hon. member was the terms of reference. This Act clearly states that the proponent is first given guidelines, and that is under

section 10 (2) and

section 12 1 for the preparation of a preview report or for the preparation of the terms of reference for the preparation of the environmental impact statment. And such terms of reference have to be consistent with the guidelines and are reviewed by the Assessment Committee to ensure that they are and this is the procedure which we have been following. And, Mr. Speaker, the hen. member made reference to

section

Section 24 states,and I under- stand it to mean,that the minister has a clear obligation under this Act to inform Cabinet of strong indications of public interest in the undertaking . and Cabinet may appoint a public hearing board or an impartial environmental assess­ ment board, more precisely described this way in the Act. Also, Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member mentioned or he had some concern in

section 36. Now,

section 36 is to cover 1456

Ma ::- c!:l 21, lSSO Tape No. 552 ow - 2 MRS. NEWHOOK: some very unusual situations or so•e emergencies of vital importance to the Province which cannot wait for an environmental assessment. While we recognize that this provision may at some times be necessar~ I am sure the government of this Province has no intention of using this clause ~properly and the minister will not abuse the authority given under this section. I quite agree with the hon. gentleman that:if the minister takes it upon herself to accept undertakings she must be responsible for her actions, must be responsible to the public.

And I hasten to point out that such a decision~ by the minister· has to have the approval of Cabinet, she just cannot make it on her own. MR. S. NEARY: Cabinet could overrule it. MRS. NEWHOOK: Yes, I guess that is correct, Sir. And, Mr. Speaker, with regard to the development of oil and gas off our shores,o~ oil and gas regulations definitely state I that any development which might take place out there has to go throuqh the environmea~al assessment process. 1 4 57

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 553 NM - 1 MRS. NEWrlOOK: Whether or not, of course that is before -------it com;nences, before they get approval to operate, and whether or not this be done under our federal government or provincially is probably not ,.perhaps ,too important. Certainly the protection of navigation and fisheries and creatures of the sea has been a federal role. Preferably I would see it as a joint, or a co-ordinated effort.

But we must ensure that oil development does not have a detrimental effect on our fishery resources and on our land resources, and that the developers have the latest technology and the most up-to-date equipment lc prevent and to take care of spills and any other tY?eS of problems ••hich might arise. Mr. Speaker, I agree with the hen. member for Windsor-Buchans (Mr. Flight) that if we had had this act in place years ago 1 quite a nU:.-nber of disastrous envircl"l!ilental impacts by various industries in this Province could have been prevented. And I regret ~rr.

Speaker, that this bill died on the Order Paper last year because this hon. House chose to use its time debating other matters. However, although the hon. m~~er is concerned about

section 36 (2) whereby undertakings already in existence are exempt, it does make sense that they cannot undergo assessment before commencement takes place because they are already in existence. I would assure the hon. member that such undertakings are subject to restrictions under our anti-pollution regulations,and all of them have been improved during the last few years and most are on a compliance schedule.

I have personally, with the of~icials of my department, visited various fish meal plants around the Province and a few other of the industries,and we find that it does work very well indeed to be able to sit down and talk to these operators face to face and we are hoping to continue to do this this year. Mr. Speaker, I do advise the han. member for 1458

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 553 NM - 2 MRS. NEw"P.OOK: Windsor-Buchans (Mr. Flight) that new extensions to existing undertakings will have to be registered under this act and will be subject to the environmental process. For instance .. a new mine in Buchans, or the development of the barite from tailings already stockpiled, these would have to be included. I would also advise him that operating on neN rivers for which the companies have no water rights would be another, and that cutting and flooding and silting, all these complaints are investigated now by our environmental officers. Mr.

Speaker, answering the han. member on spraying. I would like to confirm for him that the spr•.1ce budworm spray would require environmental assessment under this act. But I would add though that with a royal commission, with public hearings and recommendations, surely it would not be necessary to have to go through the process again unless some obvious aspect of the spray had not been covered and of course 1this would have to be dealt with.

Where all kinds of data are available 1 we could justify that we aleady know what the impact is and ,perhaps then,all that would be necessary would be the public hearings part of the requirement of this act. Also, Mr. Speaker, to the hon. member from Windsor-Buchans (Mr. Flight), I wish to point out that a notice of the commencement of an environmental assessment has to be published in the newspapers and in a public place by the minister so that the public may be informed; and this is specified under the act.

The han. member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. wa=en) , expressed some concern about the BRINEX public hearings. And I would like to point out to the hon. member that our government has been very responsible with regard to this uranium operation. 1459

~larch 21, 1980 Tape No. 554 NM - 1 MRS. NEWHOOK: If it had war.ted to go ahead and pu sh it through,it could have gone ahead and not have had to adhere to the guidelines of this proposed bill 1 but government chose to do that. And,also,I would like to say that that company had requested to go ahead with the access road, and government refused until the report from the Public Hearings Board had been received. And naturally I cannot make a report or give you any ir.formation on the BRINEX hearings,because the assessment board's report has not been received yet.

I understar.d the delay has been that they have not been able to get the transcription done on the tapes from the Indian language into English, but they do expect to have that now very shortly, and the report,of course 1 will have to be made public. "~· Speaker, the hen. member from Bonavista North (Mr. Stirling) has expressed,also,some concern about the meaning of

section 36 (2). "!R- WARREN: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : ~iR. WARREN : Mr. Speaker. The hen. member for Torngat Mountains. Mr. Speaker, I am just wondering if this bill is passed within the next few days and the report from the Powell enquiry is not received in your office in due course, and the report does state,when it is received ,that everything is okay for BRINEX to go ahead, although there are things in your bill that BRINEX has not done, will that have any effect on whether that project will go ahead or not,Will the passing of the your bill change the mind of the Powell enquiry? MR. SPEAKER: The hon.

Minister of Consumer Affairs and the Environment. MRS. NEWHOOK: ·what will happen ,Hr. Speaker, is that when we receive the report it will be assessed and evaluated by my assessment committee. They will make recommendations to the minister. The minister 1460

:~arc!"! 21 , 1980 Tape ~; o. 55.; NM - 2 ~IRS • NE\;:JOOK : th ~n ~ill make rec omm e nd at io~s co Cabino:t as to wh ether or not the ope ration is envi ronrne.'1t.ally acceptable or no c, and then it will be :abinet wilic:t wil l make the de.::is ion as ;:o wh et he r or not. 1t is going to give ap!)ro\ ·al . So ! really cannot. ans~<,-e r that question . F.N :!O N . MEI 'lBER : That is rig he. MRS • NE:IvHOO K: I was refe rr ing t.o

section 36 (2) which says an ~'1d ertaki~g that is ir. progress before th~s ace comes in to fo rce is exem?t . In th e definicion se ction of this act it exp;.a ,1.r.s this to be in an under ':.a king which has begun or has aLready occurre:i . ~< ci I r.hi.<k "'e ::oulc probably ad d to that , an ur.de~king that: has alre,.dy been a:;:.p roved prior to ::.he coming int:o effe ct of th1s ace. . :·JR . STIRLDIG : Hr. Spea ke=-. MR. SPEAKER (Silmns) : The hon . member for Bonav ista North . MRS. NEWHOOK: Mr. Speaker, the hon. MR. STIIU.!NG: Would the hon. minister permit a question? MRS. NEWHOOK: Yes.

Go ahead. ---------MR. STIRLING: That last comment that you made, are you proposing to change the act to include that definiti on that you just 111ade? You said, "I think we could also say anything that has been approved." Are you going to change the act there? MRS. NEWHOOK: No. That is just a personal observation, There are no plans to put that into the act at this time. The hon. member for Bonavista North (Mr.

Stirling) seems to be worried about the oil companie s exploring and drilling off our shores and I commend him for this concern and I wish to assure him that all development offshore, and onshore, will be subject to environmental assessment. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the environmental concerns expressed by the hon. member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder), and like him I regret ~hat this bill will come too late for the Burgee Road. The hon. member has called this bill a progressive piece of legislation. I think t.h.is is a very co-operative statement from a worthy membe;r of this House. 1461

Narch 21, 1960 Tape No. 554 N~! - 3 ~1RS • NEI'IHOOK: ~lr. Speaker, the ho:1. membe!.· for Kilbride U·lr. Aylward) has t:?.xpressed some conce~n about developments i~ cities and ~n to~~s, and I would like to tell hL~ that town plans and cit.y plans, these have to be a.pproveC. n::· our Depart~ent of Environment befcre they are approved by the cities or the :Farticular municipality. It is a par~ c£the proces;; o~pl .. g towa p la .. s - - 1462

March 21, 1980 Tape 555 EC - 1 MRS • H. NEWHOOK : of developing town plans to have the Department of the Environment involved in that particular plan. And, of course, water and sewer systems come under our waste and disposal regulations and under our civil sanitary grants, and approvals have to be given by our department before these plans are finalized. With regard to people disagreeing with the undertaking and this sort of thing, this can be taken care of in public hearings. The public can intervene and I t.'ti.nk, unlike in the past whe~e there has been no money for intervention, I am sura that the government will be receptive to providing monies for this purpose. He referred to

Section 21. He was concerned about the co-operation of departments of government, and I think this

Section 21 says that the minister ~~~ay ensure that the co-ordination and the co-operation does exist between departments. The hon. the member for Kilbride (Kr. R. Aylward) also mentioned ~ut the different kinds of undertakings and how they would be clusified. I would like to advise him that every undertaking has to be registered.

These registrations are reviewed ~Y a committee in our department and are referred then to the minister, and these are placed in three categories; those undertakings which do not require an assessment, those undertakings which may require an assessment and those undertakings which must require an assessment. In the case of where it is a 'maybe', then the proponent has to submit a preview report under certain guidelines and then a further assesSlllent is made as to whether or not en?ironmental assessment must go ahead. I think I have probably addressed all the concerns mentioned 1 Kr. Speaker.

I would like to say that this is a proqreaaive piece of leqislation, as some members have aqreed. We are ahead in Canada. Even Ontario has proclaimed only part of its act and it is that part pertaininq to the public sector. so, really, our proposed bill here is an improvement to the Ontario act and, Kr. Speaker, I think we are perhaps number one in canada. 1463

Marc!l 21, 1980 MR. S. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : MR. S. NEARY: Tape 555 EC - 2 Mr. Speaker. The hen. the member for LaPoile. Before the minister takes her chair I wonder if the minister would tell me, when the bill was circ-.llated before it was approved to be brought into the House, how many people were contacted? - how many biol09ists, how many departments? And is the minister prepared to table the responses? Because I thi."lk the minister asked for recommendations from the biologists.

For instance, I have here in front of me letters from a regional biologist, from an environmental biologist in the Department of Consumer Affairs, a Chief Biologist, Department of Tourism, Regional Biologist, etc., etc. These are all responses to the minister's request for recommendations and suggestions. Is the minister prepared to table these letters? MRS • H. NEWHOOK: I would think ~~at probably quite a few of these recommendations can be taken care of in the regulations which we have drawn up under this act. I knew •ome of them will. I cannot tell you if a copy of this act was circulated.

I think that would have been before our - MR. S. NEARY: You ;~.re the minister and you do not know whether the act was circulated before it was brought into the House? MRS. H. NEWHOOK: Well, that was before I became a member of government. MR. s. NEARY: No, Mr. Speaker, it was only recently this was done. The minister did not know the act was being circulated? 1464

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 556 so - 1 MR. S. NEARY : 1979, was the minister in the department then? MR. H. NEWHOOK: Yes, that was in July of '79 but this Act was drafted previous to that time. MR. S. NEARY: But will the minister table the responses? I mean, I could table ~~em myself but it is not my place to do it. Would the minister table them because none of the recommendations are included in that Act? MR. H. NEWHOOK: Well, I will ha7e a look at that, Mr. Speaker, and I will sort of take that under advisement. Thank you.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Protect The Environment Of The Province By Providing For Environmental Assessment", read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House on tomorrow. (Bill No. 13). Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act Respecting The Establishment Of A Newfoundland And Labrador Arts Council". (Bill No. 16) MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) The hon. Minister of Tourism, Recreation and Culture. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. R. DAWE: Mr.

Speaker, hen. members of the Rouse of Assembly, this is indeedan historic occasion for the Province because today it is my privilege to introduce in this hon. House Bill 16, "An Act Respecting The Establishment Of A Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council". With the introduction of this Bill the government is continuinq to fulfill yet another proJDise, that is, to ensure the arts col!munity of this Province be given every opportunity to develop and flourish in a meaningful and rational manner.

This Bill further demonstrates this government's desire to involve the general public to a siqnificant degree in formulating policies that will affect future developments 1465

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 556 SD - 2 MR. R. DAWE: in a particular area of concern. The introduction of this Bill very graphically demonstrates the genuine interest and concern ~~at this government has for the encouragement, the preservation and the stimulation of individual artists and other arts organizations either amateur or professional in all parts of Newfoundland and Labrador. The Cultural Affairs Division of rrry department has been doing a most commendable job in assisting and promoting a wide variety of arts and cultural activities throughout this Province.

The five provincially owned and operated Arts and culture Centres around the Province are a credit to us all. The management and operation of these centres is a very significant contribution to the development of the arts in our Province. Only last SUIIUtler in the Arts and Culture Centre in Stephenville there was a significant revelation, if you will, within the Province with the establishment of a drama school headed by !'.x; Maxim ~azumdar. The success of that school and the ultimate support of both my department and the Department of Educatioi'! - Mr.

Maxim Mazumdar and his school are back in Stephenville this year. MR. F. STAGG: Hear, hear. MR. R. DAWE: I understand from my colleague from Stephenville (~.x. F. Stagg) that the anticipated results will be even bigger and better than last year and I look forward to my department being involved in probably other centres around the Province in proii'Otinq that kind of activity . The management and operation of these centres is a very significant contribution to the development of arts in our Province - the Cultural Affairs division- excuse me.

Our department is involved in a number of ways and will continue to be involved in a number of ways in financially supporting organizations and groups outside of what will 1466

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 556 SD - 3 MR. R. DAII'E: be the cont.rol and jurisdiction of the Arts Council, specifically the National Theatre Scbool of Canada, the National Youth Orchestra of Canada, ~he Canadian Conference of the Arts and other organizations and agencies which provide varying degrees of service to citizens of this Province through the varoius programmes in which they are involved.

To provide an ex~le of this, in the case of the National Youth Orchestra ~~nual auditions are held and should a Newfoundlander be accepted for the season in the National Youth Orchestra, the 'rovince financially assists on a pre-organized per capita basis the number of students participating. A grant is also provided for the Youth Orchestra to assist ~~em in defraying the cost of auditions, either in Newfoundland or bring Newfoundlander students to some other central point for audition purposes.

A similar situatio11 exists with the National Theatre School where auditions are held annually within the Province and a contribution is made to assist in offsetting some of the costs involved in such programmes. As a matter of interest, last year the Province assisted in a Canada Day Programme in Paris in which the famous Newfoundl.and pianist, Karen Quinton, took part. From all reports that was an excellent programi!'e. The Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Counci~whose members were appointed by His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor in Council and announced in this hon. House November last 1 1467

Harch 21,1980 Tape No. 557 AH-1 ~!R. DAWE: will be responsible for the dissemenation of funds devised to aid and assist in the development of Newfoundland amateur and professional artists and arts organizations. The members of the council who have agreed to serve will do so on a voluntary basis and will also, from time to time, be expected to advise government by making suggestions for the future development of the arts within the Province.

If I might I would like to draw a parallel to a number of other organizations which are now operating and are under the ambit of the Department of Tourism, Recreation, and Culture.

They are ones which I am proud to be associated with,having been in on the fledging years or the beginning years of each of these organizations, and they relate because of my past history and so on to an involvement in the sports area 1 specifically, the Newfoundland and Labrador Amateur Sports Pederation which tecause of a need that grew out,partiall? 1 of government's involvement in supporting individual organizations and sport's groups and encouraging the development of coaching local and provincial organizations in particular sports there was a need for these sports groups to get together and to form a federation or an association that would allow them to have more professional and individual input into decisions that were probably being made by,at that time, government officials.

Since that time the organization has gone through a number of growing pains and stages but has developed now into a very ~orthwhile and very informed organization which does much to promote amateur sports in this Province, In the same sort of a light the high schools around the Province in their sports progr•ili-~~ were being funded in sort of an ad hoc manner. They were forced to organize and operate independently, not with a unified voice or a unified organization and government saw fit to encourage the formation of the Newfoundland and Labrador High School Athletic 1468

March 21,1990 Tape No. 557 AH-2 MR. DA';IE: Federation. At this point in time that particular federation is probably the most used or participated in agency that we have in this Province. Last year alone there were 300 provincial tournaments held in this Province as it related to that particular activity. To try and put this in some perspective, for those 300 tournaments to take place students in schools and teams and so on had to compete in twenty-eight separate zones.

The zone winner then went on to a regional competition in the five specific regions of the Province and from there carne on to a provincial tournament. So you can see the wide range of activities that occured in order for someone to actually get to a provincial tournament. I believe the statistics involved in provincial tournaments at this ti me was some 1500 boys and girls who participated.

This is the kind of thing, the kind of support that govern~ent is giving to these organizations that it is now giving to the arts community and I see no reason, and indeed I am very hopeful and after having met with the members of the Arts Council, who were appointed last November, I am sure that this committee will go forward and will produce results for us as citizens of this Province that will far outreach any expectations that we may have had for them and I look forward to this happening.

The other organization which I refer to is the - and I know han. members opposite and han. members on this side have been associated from time to time with an organization known as the Newfoundland and Labrador Parks and Recreation Association- In their capacity as people who represent the municipal recreation authorities around this Province 1they themselves have been involved in sometimes. limited and sometimes not so limited experience in the arts community.

They have been organizations which have developed in smaller communities an interest in drama, an interest in the arts and arts and crafts activities and so on, and they 1469

~!arch 21,19 80 '!"ape No . 557 AH-J :\!R . DA~-IE : have been very s upp ortive of the idea of the escablishment of a provincia l arts council . Thac organizac~on too, had its beginnings in a ~ery modest way and sine~ that time the membership has grown as well as the rep r esentation from around the Province. Each municipality now and a number of unincorporated areas in t h e ?rovince are participating in this particular organization . And again I loo~ forward,because of the str uctu re of the Arcs Counc~~.

I look forward to the v ario~s re;ions, the geog raphi c reg~ o ns of the ?:ovince bein g well :~presented and th ei= lnterests and concerns being expresse d through the Arts Counci -l and in tur:~ to g·overnment wh.o may have some input in changing either policies or p rogramme s tha t relace to the 1470

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 558 E!. - 1 MR. R. DA'io!E: the arts world. The Arts Council will be set up and those of you who have taken the time to go through the particular piece of legislation will see that the Arts Council will have the responsibility of disseminating funds to organizations and to individuals.

And not only that, they will also have the responsibility of soliciting from other areas of the pop­ ulation, from private and corporate interests, funds that can foster their particular activities and assist young Newfoundland artists and not so young Newfoundland artists in developing their particular talents or interests, bath provincially, nationally and internationally. And I am very, very pleased to be associated with that kind of an awaremess among the Arts community.

As I said,! had lunch with the part­ icular organization, the tw'elve members of the group and their executive secretary and I must say I was very impressed with their interest, their enthusiasm and their obvious dedication to make this council and this advisory board work. Later on, in session, we will be carrying on this idea of allowing people in the community at large, in the various areas of the Province to become involved in advising the Province, in advising the government inaa direction it should take in a particular area.

We will be es~ablishing a youth advisory council and this in itself is a very significant development. It is in response to a number of youth organizations around the Province who have suggested from ti.Jre to time that they would like to l::lecome involved, they would like to have an input into decisions that are m.de at all levels of government. And we as a gover!llllent are very proud that we will be able to establish, hopefully in this session, not only the Arts Council but also the Youth Advisory Council, to be 1471

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 558 EL - 2 MR. R. DAWE: set up in the very near future. The members appointed to the council are people from all parts of Newfoundland and Labrador and will therefore be able to represent and support, will be able to make representation in support of the cultural needs of the areas they represent . Bearing in mind, of course, that their acts and actions will be for the greatest good of all those people who are interested in the preservation of our distinctive Newfoundland culture and heritage.

There are none among us, I am sure, who would question the invaluable contribution that is made to the soci&l and moral fibre of our great Province by those who create for us all, through an artistic talent. Certainly, in the initial stages, bec&use of the necessity to practice economic restraint, the fending for the Newfounland and Labrador Arts Council will be limited . .

There is no question, however, that even with limited funds, the launch- ing of this initial c:ouncil,ris significant in it's ability to invite applications from the amateur and professional artists and cultural community for assistance with current and c:ontinuing progrAll!s, as well as assistance for new and specific projects.

Perhaps it is not generally known ~~at many arts organizations throughout the Province have ~~rked diligently for years to maintain our heritage and traditions without remuneration and have been dedicated solely to the provision of entertailllllent, particularly in the performing arts 1 in areas where because of our geoqraphic caize and small population, it would have been impossible to support professional c:ompanies and organizations.

In many cases, these existing organizations need only seed mcney to help them offset some of the ever: ·increasing costs involved in presenting public performances for the entertainment of their fellow citizens in their own C:OIIIIliW1ities and perhAps to other locations , that 1472

Marc:h 21, 1980 Tape No. 558 EL - 3 MR. R. DAWE' could be made accessible with a saall amount of assistance for travel. In the same way, it is hoped that the council fW!.ds may he used to auqment fund• received by our professional arts orqanization from federal agencies suc:h as ~he Canada Council. Similar systems, hopefully, may also be available to encourage and assist individual practicing artists who have chosen to work and live in Newfoundland. As I mentioned before, Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to be able to introduce this Bill into the HOuse today.

I look forward to members on both sides of the House. coming forward with their support for this Bill, those who have taken the time to speak to the artist CCIIIIIIImity, or people involved in the arts around the Province, who have taken the time,probal:>ly 1 to attend some of the functions that have gone on, both in their local area and as far as the regional Arts and Culture Centres are concerned. After you have done this ove~ a number or~s, you will realize that the quality, the enthusiasm and the dedication of people involved in the arts 1473

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 559 DW - 1 has certainly improved. We have :-!R. R. DAW!::: developed, with the introduction of the Arts and Culture Centre~ to a level and this level is now to be passed. With the introduction of the Arts Council I think we will go on to the next plateau. I think their involvement, their inde- pendent advice will do much to help government in promoting the arts and cultural activities around the Province.

As I was~.mentioning,those of you who have seen this development over the year~ I am sure you could do nothing but support this particular Bill, support the thrust that government has made in this direction to involve people outside who will be giving advice, who will be acting as independent voices for whatever activity but in this case,more particularly for the arts community. In conclusion, therefore, Mr.

Speaker, and hen. mambers of the House of Assembl~ I earnestly request your wholehearted support for the passage of this Bill thereby enabling the members of the Newfoundland andiLabrador Arts Council to get on with the business of carrying out the object~ves that have been set forward for them in the contents of this Bill. At the same time, Mr. Speaker, I believe that both sides of this hon. House should take great pride and pleasure in being associated with the passage of the Bill in this session.

I would like to reserve further comments until the end of the debate at which time I will respond, of course, to any specific items that members on either side of this hon. House would have for me and to take all these things into consideration. But, I feel, Mr. Speaker, that I will not have to respond in any sort of a way to negative comments because I believe this Bill is the type of legislation that cannot be refuted, it is the kind of positive, definite, 1474

March 21, 1980 Tape No. 559 DW - 2 MR. R. DAWE: forward-thinking legislation that this government is proud to be associated wit~; and I look forward to hearing other members of this hon. Hause debate this particular Bill. $. ROBERTS: MR. SPEAKER (Baird): MR. S. NEARY: Well said! Well read! The han. member far LaPoile. Mr. Speaker, taw could we on this side of the House resist the temptation to vote for this piece of legislation after the mast eloquent, school teacher:lsh - MR. ROBERTS : Heartfelt. MR. S.

NEARY : - heartfelt, tu9'ging at the heart strings of all membersfor this piece of legislation when it was introduced by the han. minister. MR. D. JAMIESON: in at the time. MR. S. NEARY : We should have had a symphony That is right, we should have had the violins playing in the galleries, Sir, as the han. gentleman got up and trotted out the Newfoundland and Lab­ rador A~ateur Sports Federation, the Parks Federation,whichwas an indication to me that the hon. gentleman did not know very much about the Bill or did not know very much about the arts of this Province.

The han. gentleman spent very little time dealing with the Arts Council itself and the kind of work that it would do. So the responsibility of trying to deal with the local, provincial Newfoundland situation 1 the responsibility falls on my shoulders.! was hoping that the bon. gentleman would be able to enlighten us .- AN HON MEMBER: MR. S. NEARY: (Inaudible) arts and crafts. Arts and crafts is my spe- cialty. So, Mr.

Speaker, I will say at the outset that anything but an~thing that the government brings into this House that is motherhood 1 whether it be resolutions, legislation, recommendations, anything that is motherhood 1475

:-:a.rch 21 , 1990 Tape No. SO C NH - 1 !t~ . NEn...~ : I am goi~g ~o vo~e :o= i~. a~C I b eli~v e my colleagues will d.o the: sa:ne thin g. SO: ·lE !iON. :1£.'l!lERS : Hear, hea r! :-4,'.:\ . m:AAY: so ~his is a mo~~erhood issue , Sir , a mor.herhood iss.:e that. I am sur; a~l members are going to vote f~r even t.ho:J;:t , :·!!:' . Speaker, having saici ~ hat, having said ~~r..

I do not believe ther e will he any rejoicing or dancing in the streer.s of La?oile, or the Great Northern Peninsula, or pans of Ne'.o~::oundlanrl ,.,here you have hl;h une:;.ployment, , .. mere yot:. have low wages, where you have ~nrlar.ion, where you have no fis~ planes, whe!."e you have no ·~·atar a~ sewerage . I do not believe :::!:ere "'il~ be any rejoicing in the street.s in t.hese commun ities and towns and villa~es and ser.t.laments where they cannot. find jobs for their yo~ng sons and daughr.ers .r do not believe r.hey w~l be rejoicing over this particular bill.

Bur. . nevertheless , it. is probably not. f~ir of~. Sir, and I am not. going to, I am going to resist; the temptation to say that, it ~~ulci noc be fair because aftEr all, Mr. Spea~er, man cannot. live on ~a ter a.nci sewerag ·e alone . SO~!E HON . ME:i'IBERS : Hear~ hear ! MR . NEARY: ~lan cannot live on oi.l alone . Nan cannot live on pa~ed roads alone , and man cannoc live on out.door privies. ~IR. J.O.MIE SON: He sure as Hell cannot li ve on gas. ~IR. NEA.!l.Y : Artd he cannot: live or. gas alene . so i c is no-c fair . I-c is not fair, 11.r.

Speaker, for me to say that. t.he people of Newfoundland would prefer that their govert'.menc and their elected representatives dea~t with problem s t:ha-r. are of a more serious nature, problems that are r.earing t:he hearts out of Newfoundla .nders such as elect:ricity rates, that Newfoundlanders, I believe, would feel much mor e comfortable, much more relieved , much happier if ~~ were debating in chis Eiousebread and butter issues that affect the daily lives of our people. i:~l F.O ;l. :lE i~: Unemployment. 1476

Harch 21, 1980 Tape No. 560 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: Yes,, unemployment, inflation, low wages, electricity rates, the cost of living, crime in this Province. I believe, Sir, that people would feel much happier if we were debating these matters but nevertheless, as I said, man ca~,ot live on wine alone, he has got to have his cake. So lt would not be fair, Mr.

Speaker, it would not be fair for me to condemn the government and condemn the minister for having their priorities all upside down, for having their priorities out of kilter by bringing in a bill to establish the Arts Councils when we should be debating other more serious matters in this House. So I am going to forego, I am going to forego that temptation, Sir, and I am going to talk about some of the things that are very dear to my heart in this Province and I am going to talk about Newfoundland talent especially. Jl.nd, Mr.

Speaker, I might say in that regard, right at the outset, that as a result, not of this bill but as a result of volunteer organizations getting together, as a result of the Mummers Troop, the Mummers Group that are now occupying the old LSPU Hall downtown St. John's, where I went down last year and enjoyed one of the most commical skits 1 I think,I have ever seen in my life, and I have seen some dandies. I enjoy the live theatre. I really like the live threatre. And if I do not get to New York once every two or three years to see the live threatre I nearly go out of my mind.

The last time I went there, by the way, and I recommended it to :rny hon. friend, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Jamieson), he was then Minister of External Affairs, I said, "The next time you go to New York be sure to go and see 'The Nicest Little Whorehouse in Texas'", and my han. friend went and saw it, it was one of the most popular comedies AN HON. MEMBER: I saw that. MR. NEARY: Yes, and did the hon. gentleman enjoy it? AN HON. MEMBER: I enjoyed it . SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! 1477

~:.arch 21, l9BO :•2. NC:.;;ty: AN liON. ~'lBER: 1-!:<. NEA..<t'l: AN liON . :1E:·!3E?.: t•!R. NEARY : Tape No . :;6c NM - 3 !·es, !.4~ . ~pea.'<er . A!Jsolu:::ely =ancascic . (!naudi!: l.t:! to see c hg ?la y . Pardo:l? I told you b~y. I wen: ~c see the ?lai . That is ~ight . The ~lay o=f 3roaC•."ay was one of the funr.iesc I t..l1ir,k ! have ever s;;!en . HR. J~II3SON : 3road\-.ray . ~ .

NE~..RY : I~ was so good ic "A'as moved do•.-n to As a ntacte ·!': o f fa::t: it ·.-;as sold out for ~wo or t.?rree years i=-t aclv-ance anC you had t.o go i..~ c.,;.e aft:err. .oo:t. :ou :::ould ~ot buy a ticke1:. ac r.iq~i:. 3U:: I li~e :he live :heac::e a~ ! must sa"} chat: apart from that play that I sa"' of f Broadwa y che r e lase year , I ::h1.:'lk che :~ext: bes;; one ! sa·., was <io;.:n ac che LSPU Hall, "'hen they 1478 "'

March 21, lS80 Tape 561 EC - l MR. s. NEARY: p•.1t on the s:cit down there, Some Slick. The hon. gentleman - well, I am not allowed to use the nickname they put en the hen. gentleman, it would be unparliamentary, but I believe they put an • r 1 in t.'J.ere some~orhere into the 'Peckford' • SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. s. NEARY: Some Slick - and it was some slick, Sir. It was really great. I went there one night and I must say t.~at I saw the hon. the Minister of Tourism at the time. He had a reserved seat and he was ushered into his seat.

And I believe they were looking for a little handout at that time because they were having their financial problems. I had to sit in the hack with me bottle of wine, in the smoke­ filled room. aut I still enjoyed it. It was one of the funniest things I think I have ever seen in Newfoundland - it is Newfoundlandia! That is Newfoundland at its finest! And, you know, Mr.

Speaker, what I started to say about Newfoundlanders doing well - one of the people who started out - I am not sure if he was an original or not - but one of the young Newfoundlanders who started out with the Mummers group is now down in New York - Dr. Joy's son, who is so talented the talent just flows out of him, the likes of which I have never seen. He has now hit the big time and I am sure that we all wish him every success in his chosen profession. You know, I had to laugh. I remember when that young fellow started out everybody was saying, 'Oh, poor old Dr.

Joy's young fellow is down there with the 'arty' type, he is down there '<lith the long hair and the beard, • and all this sort of thing, 'My god, you know, it must be shocking to raise a young fellow like that! • And here he is now gone to the big time~ I think it is wonderful that it could ha.ppen here in Newfoundland and I ut sure that they IIIUSt be proud of that young fellow today. Out in my own district, Sir, there is a young man, his name is Keith LaRiche. P'REMIER PEC!ti'ORV: ·ae is related to me by marriage. MR. s. NEARY: Is he?

Well, that young fellow started danc- ing at the Wreck House and he broke the world's record for disco dancing 1479

March 21, 1980 Tape 561 EC - 2 MR. 5. NEARY : in Newfoundland. I was there and I made my little contribution - I put my little contribution in the hat. Bat, Mr. Speaker, lo,and behold- ~~e Guiness Book of World Records would not recognize the fact that this young fellow had danced for three ~ or four -weeks and ended up in the hospital, and said, 'No, I am sorry, but you did not play by the rules and we are not going to recognize this as being the world's record.' So they had to do it over again. Mr. Speaker, it is absolutely incredible! It is unbelievable!

I had a call from the owner of the Port Club - and I have to give him a plug - in Port aux Basques, and he said, 'Would you mind coming out and officially opening the provincial Disco Dance?' And I said, 'What do you mean? There a few weeks ago, I was down to the 'Wrech House and this fellow danced for three or four weeks and ended up in the hospital, and you are going to have another one?' 'But,' he said, 'they would not recognize it and we are going to now have a provincial disco dance right across Newfoundland- Corner Brook, Grand Falls and St. John's.

Would you come out and officially open the Provincial Disco Dance?' And I s