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November 29, 2010

39th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2010-Nov-29 (PDF)

L075 - Mon 29 Nov 2010 / Lun 29 nov 2010

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Monday 29 November 2010 Lundi 29 novembre 2010

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

ENERGY POLICIES

ENERGY POLICIES

ENERGY POLICIES

SMART METERS

TOBACCO CONTROL

POVERTY

ENERGY POLICIES

ILLEGAL DRUG OPERATIONS

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION

CONSUMER PROTECTION

IDENTITY THEFT

LONG-TERM CARE

FIRST NATIONS

WIND TURBINES

FIRST NATIONS

DEFERRED VOTES

NARCOTICS SAFETY

AND AWARENESS ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LA SÉCURITÉ

ET LA SENSIBILISATION

EN MATIÈRE DE STUPÉFIANTS

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

SMART METERS

NORTH YORK GENERAL HOSPITAL

APPRENTICESHIP TRAINING

PEEL CHILDREN’S CENTRE

LOCAL DEMOCRACY WEEK

ASSOCIATION OF ONTARIO

HEALTH CENTRES

MOHAMAD FAKIH

CANADIAN EDUCATIONAL RESOURCES COUNCIL

EMPLOYMENT PRACTICES

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

STRONG COMMUNITIES THROUGH

AFFORDABLE HOUSING ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 FAVORISANT

DES COLLECTIVITÉS FORTES

GRÂCE AU LOGEMENT ABORDABLE

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

PETITIONS

HIGHWAY IMPROVEMENT

BRITISH HOME CHILDREN

ONTARIO SOCIETY

FOR THE PREVENTION

OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS

CHRONIC CEREBROSPINAL VENOUS INSUFFICIENCY

PARKINSON’S DISEASE

DIAGNOSTIC SERVICES

CEMETERIES

REPLACEMENT WORKERS

CEMETERIES

ORDERS OF THE DAY

HELPING ONTARIO FAMILIES AND

MANAGING RESPONSIBLY ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR L’AIDE

AUX FAMILLES ONTARIENNES

ET LA GESTION RESPONSABLE

ROYAL ASSENT /

SANCTION ROYALE

HELPING ONTARIO FAMILIES AND

MANAGING RESPONSIBLY ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR L’AIDE

AUX FAMILLES ONTARIENNES

ET LA GESTION RESPONSABLE

The House met at 1030.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Good morning. Please remain standing for the Lord’s Prayer, followed by the universal prayer of the Hindus.

Prayers.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Mr. Robert Bailey: It’s my great pleasure to welcome to the Ontario Legislature today, in the east gallery from the great riding of Sarnia–Lambton, His Worship Mayor Mike Bradley, accompanied by Ms. Janis Moore and Ms. Kathy Meade, who are all visiting Queen’s Park to speak about issues surrounding children’s mental health and who also have an appointment with the Lieutenant Governor this afternoon.

Mr. Reza Moridi: I have the distinct honour to welcome His Holiness Sheikh Salman Al Hussaini Al Nadvi, a Muslim scholar and imam from India, accompanied by Mr. Uves Sareshwala; Imam Dr. Saeed Faizi Nadvi of Richmond Hill; Imam Abdul Hai Patel, imam of the Canadian Council of Imams; Mr. Abdul Haq Ingar, president of Masjid Daruslam, Toronto; Imam Hafiz Faizanul Haq, imam of Alnadwah Centre in Mississauga; and Imam Yusuf Badat, imam of the Islamic Foundation of Toronto, to the House today. Please join me in welcoming the imams.

Mr. Steve Clark: It gives me great pleasure to introduce Pam Blackstock and Kemp McMeekin. They’re here as part of the delegation of the Association of Ontario Health Centres. Pam is the chair of the board of directors of the Merrickville District Community Health and Services Centre. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Monique M. Smith: I’d like to welcome to the House today my friend and former employee Jason Corbett, who many will know from my constituency office, and a good friend of mine, Scott Clark, who are here today to enjoy question period.

Mr. Ted Arnott: I’m pleased to welcome Susan Wilson, Emily Wilson, Don Wilson and Ellen Dolan, who are here with our page from Wellington–Halton Hills.

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: I’m very pleased to welcome my family, who are visiting here today: my mother, Nuzhat Sadique; my brother, Ali Naqvi, from Halton; my uncle Waseem Sadique, who is visiting from the United Kingdom; and my uncle Naseem Sadique and aunt Birges Sadique, who are visiting from Bahrain. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

M me France Gélinas: I’m really pleased to introduce today in the west gallery Mrs. Lee McKenna duCharme, who is with the Association of Ontario Health Centres. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. John Milloy: I know that all members will want to welcome the many representatives from the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance, OUSA, who are visiting us here at Queen’s Park, and a number are in the gallery today. Welcome.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Further introductions?

I would like to take this opportunity on behalf of the member from Hamilton Mountain and page Alexandra Oleiche to welcome her mother, Fida Oleiche, to the gallery today. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

ORAL QUESTIONS

ENERGY POLICIES

Mr. Tim Hudak: A question to the Premier: Even kids know you can’t run a lemonade stand buying lemons for 80 cents and then selling the lemonade for five cents, yet that’s exactly what you are doing with Ontario’s hydro system. How can you justify making Ontario families pay a markup of up to 20 times the market rate for power for your expensive wind and solar energy experiments?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Again, I want to remind my honourable colleague that we wait with bated breath in Ontario for the member opposite’s plan. Perhaps at some point in time they will deign to join the debate in a thoughtful and responsible way by putting forward a plan.

In the meantime, we are moving ahead with ours and I’m very pleased that just last week, the honourable member’s colleague the MPP for Cambridge joined us at yet another announcement for 150 new jobs flowing directly from our green energy plan. It was great to have the MPP for Cambridge there at the ATS factory in Cambridge, which is going to produce solar panels for a variety of customers. We’re pleased that one by one, members of the Conservative Party are joining our plan because we have a plan.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Premier, you know that Ontario families are roundly rejecting your plan that is putting hydro rates through the roof in the province of Ontario. The Ontario PCs stand proudly with Ontario families in saying that the consumer, not special interests, should be the centre of every decision.

Premier, you are signing, in a very ideological approach to energy policy, some of the richest subsidies in all of North America. You’ve signed subsidies with giant multinational foreign corporations like Ikea and Samsung at up to 20 times the market rate. On top of that, you are hitting families with the HST and the smart meters that are nothing more than tax machines on top of a 75% increase already. Premier, why are you signing contracts at a 2,000% markup that are going on the backs of Ontario families?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: The other thing that I wanted to inform this House is that when my colleague’s energy critic, the MPP for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke, was asked if power prices would be lower under a Conservative government, his response was, “No, we’ve never said that.”

I think at some point in time there’s going to be a breakout of rash reasonability in the Conservative caucus in Ontario. They’re going to come to the conclusion that it actually costs money to restore vitality and vigour to our electricity system. They’re going to want to come to the table and support our plan for a clean, modern, reliable electricity system. It’s happening bit by bit: Rash responsibility is breaking out inside the Conservative caucus.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: I know the Premier is taking a very ideological approach when it comes to energy policy. Your policy, Premier, is basically the wind and solar projects—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock. Members will please come to order. We have a number of guests here today, Minister of Community Safety, who want to hear question period.

Please continue.

Mr. Tim Hudak: Premier, your ideological approach when it comes to energy policy is driving up rates across this province. Your view to sign contracts at any price whatsoever, to give massive subsidies to foreign multinational corporations like Ikea and Samsung, is absolutely irresponsible. It’s wrong-headed and it’s chasing jobs out of the province of Ontario.

Premier, we view this as very much about economic policy: attracting jobs to our province and making sure, at the end of the day, that families can pay their hydro bills. When will you abandon your misguided “buy high, sell low” hydro policy that’s driving rates up for consumers in our province?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Again, maybe I’m old-fashioned about this, but I think if you’re going to criticize, you’ve got a responsibility to put forward your own plan. They have had a long time to prepare a plan and there’s none forthcoming.

I know my colleague opposite likes to refer to foreign multinationals, but in fact there are 10,000 Ontario farmers who are producing clean electricity for Ontarians. They are people like Dwayne Feddes. He’s a dairy farmer in Goderich who also raises chickens. There are Geoff and Sandra Farrell, who are dairy farmers in Kincardine who also grow corn, soy and wheat. Wayne Wilson is a crop farmer in Uxbridge. Mr. Pandya lives in Mississauga—this is an example of somebody doing this inside the city. He is generating some electricity with nine solar panels on his roof.

We’re talking about clean air, thousands of jobs and reliable electricity. That’s—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

ENERGY POLICIES

Mr. Tim Hudak: Back to the Premier. Premier, you should know that Ontario families would rather make money selling food at a fair price than growing steel and glass across the province. You forced them into this corner because you won’t support agriculture, and now you’re driving up rates for consumers across the province, including Ontario farmers, who are paying far more.

Premier, your own advisers at the competitiveness, productivity and economic progress group are openly questioning your claim of 50,000 jobs. I think now you even admit that’s not true. They’re warning that the costs are going through the roof.

You cited Spain as a model for your energy experiments, but you know that the high-profile Calzada report found that for every so-called job they created in wind turbines or solar, it ended up costing 2.2 jobs in the economy as a whole. Premier, isn’t it time to move away from your ideological approach to hydro, your “buy high, sell low”—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Premier?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Only the modern Conservative Party in the province of Ontario would consider a plan that is devoted to producing clean energy and clean air, to putting an end to that pollution, to creating tens of thousands of jobs, to ensuring that we have in place a reliable, modern electricity system—only they would reference that as ideology.

I think Ontarians see it as reasonable. I think they understand it’s responsible. We know there are costs associated with this. We’ve laid those out for the next 20 years. In addition to that, we’ve laid out a particular plan to support Ontario families: our clean energy benefit. We’re going to reduce every single electricity bill, from January onward for five years, by 10%. That’s part of our plan.

If they have a plan, if they have any idea at any point in time of putting forward something that’s thoughtful and responsible, we would love to see it. In the meantime, it’s about our plan and it’s about our determination to ensure we have clean air and a responsible, reliable supply of electricity.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: You know, the problem with the Premier’s approach is, quite frankly, nobody believes him anymore. Premier, you said you’d close coal by 2007; you broke that promise over and over again. You said that your green energy experiments, your expensive experiments, would drive up rates by only 1%; they’ve gone through the roof instead.

Premier, I know that you want Ontario to be more like Europe. I know that’s your view, as Premier of the province, and that’s why you’re bringing in these expensive experiments. But even you know, despite your love affair with policies in other countries, that Denmark, for example, after 15 years of heavy subsidies, said only one in 10 so-called new jobs actually came to light. We’ve found out now that, in other countries like Germany and Spain, they’ve realized their rates were too high and they’ve backed away. But you are headlong down an ideological course. How many jobs are you costing the province with your high rate policy?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Again, we put forward a 20-year plan. We’re the first government to ever do that. We laid out in real detail how much it’s going to cost, where we’re going to get the electricity from, what the sources will be and how much effort we’re putting into conservation. We think that’s the responsible thing to do. We think that’s exactly what Ontarians want to see from their political leaders. They want to know what we plan to do and how exactly we intend to get there.

None of that is forthcoming from this party.

On behalf of the people of Ontario who are very interested in this public policy debate, they are now insisting that the Conservative Party here in Ontario put forward their own specific proposal. There is nothing there. It is not forthcoming.

We’re moving ahead with our plan. We’re doing it because it’s the right thing to do, it’s the responsible thing to do—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I just remind the honourable members from Nepean and Renfrew that it is important—

Mr. John Yakabuski: What?

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): It’s from a previous outburst.

Final supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Premier, your determination to make Ontario more like Europe, your policy errors, already have us matching Greece’s debt and now Spain’s job losses. Premier, your very ideological approach of buying these contracts at any price whatsoever, of rewarding multinational, multi-billion dollar corporations like IKEA and Samsung with sweetheart deals is driving rates up for consumers across the province and costing us jobs. We simply disagree.

Premier, you cited Germany as one of the ways that you wanted to approach your hydro policy, but even Germany’s institute reports that the subsidies for their expensive energy experiments was a whopping US$240,000 per job. That is unaffordable, Premier. That means it’s on the backs of families, on the backs of seniors, on the backs of small businesses. We will stand on their side, as opposed to your special interest approach.

Why won’t you abandon these expensive energy—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Premier?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: The Euro-bashing coming from my honourable colleague is positively bizarre. I don’t really understand that. Again, I think it expresses an innate fear of all things foreign.

I think there are some good ideas out there. We will draw lessons from experiences in other parts of the world, and we will apply those in an Ontario way. That’s why 10,000 Ontario farmers have signed on to our green energy plan.

Again, we’ve got a specific plan. It’s 68 pages long. We would be very interested in hearing from Ontarians—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The member from Simcoe North will withdraw the comment that he just made.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Withdraw the comment.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: I withdraw, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Premier?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: As I was saying, we put forward a plan. It’s called Ontario’s long-term energy plan. It’s 68 pages long.

It may be that my honourable colleague is somewhat shy and reticent to reveal his plan publicly, so if he’d like to, he can send it to ontario.ca/energyplan. We would be pleased to receive his plan. We’ll take it into consideration as we lend further strength to our own—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

ENERGY POLICIES

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Premier. Since the—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock. I just remind the honourable members that we have a rotation in questions. Now it’s the opportunity for the third party to have their questions. The opposition just had a question. I would just say to the government side, as well, that these cross-floor debates while somebody is asking a question aren’t helpful to anyone within the House. I would ask that they be respectful.

Leader of the third party.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Premier. Since the Premier’s corporate tax cuts and unfair HST kicked in on July 1, more than 30,000 people have lost their jobs and 30% more Ontarians are unemployed since the start of the recession. Will the Premier venture to say whether his plan is working?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: There’s always more work to be done. I know my honourable colleague understands that. We have made some real progress. I would hope that she would understand that, as well.

Since the depths of the recession, the US economy has restored some 10% of their lost jobs. We’ve restored 75% of our lost jobs. We think that’s significant progress. Obviously, there is more work to be done, but with every passing week there is more progress made. Step by step, we keep creating more jobs in Ontario.

A couple of weeks ago, I was in Hamilton. We announced 300 new jobs at JNE Consulting associated with our green energy plan. The folks who are going to be hired there are going to be hired to produce components that go into renewable technology. That’s just one small example of the progress that we are making by working together.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The Premier had a plan that he claimed would create 600,000 jobs. His plan hit people with a new tax on everything from hydro to haircuts while giving away $2 billion in corporate tax cuts. But since his plan kicked in, London has lost 12,000 jobs, Kitchener-Waterloo has lost more than 7,000, and Windsor has lost more than 3,000.

Would the Premier agree that his plan is an expensive failure?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Again, bit by bit, we keep making progress. More and more communities, particularly insofar as our green energy plan is concerned, are benefiting from the new policy. We’re creating thousands and thousands of new jobs, including in Hamilton, generating those jobs one by one. They’re going to be involved in creating solar panels and wind turbines.

Our determination, our drive, is to make sure that we create a manufacturing centre of excellence here. At some point in time, the Americans are going to say, “We want to get involved in this too. We want to ensure that we have access to cleaner sources of energy. We want to do that by harnessing the power of the wind and the sun.” We’re going to be in a position to ship to them. Just in the way that we ship our cars to them today, we’re going to be shipping to them wind turbines and solar panels made here in Ontario by people who are working at great jobs.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The HST isn’t the Premier’s first failed plan. He had a plan to freeze hydro rates, but he has told families to brace themselves for a 50% increase. He had a plan to expand public transit, but he put the brakes on that plan with deep cuts. He had a plan to revolutionize long-term care, but stories regularly emerge of seniors being horribly mistreated.

Given his dismal seven-year record, why would Ontario families have any faith whatsoever that the Premier’s latest plan will work?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Again, I say to my honourable colleague that we await her energy plan as well. We’ve been debating this matter of public policy for a long, long time now. My honourable colleague has stood in her place in this Legislature many times over and offered criticism of our plan, but to this point in time, they have yet to put forward any positive, constructive proposal that might resemble a plan.

I’ll tell you what we’ve done as well with respect to jobs: JNE Consulting in Hamilton, 300 jobs; Samco, 60 jobs here in Toronto; Canadian Solar, 500 jobs in Guelph; Sustainable Energy Technologies and Melitron, 300 jobs in Guelph; Fronius, 100 jobs in Mississauga to produce solar invertors; SMA Solar AG, 200 jobs; Canasia, 300 jobs in London to produce solar panels; Silfab, 200 jobs in Mississauga; Solar Source Corp., 200 jobs in Windsor; Solar Semiconductor, 200 jobs in Oakville. I could go on and on. The fact is, we’re—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

SMART METERS

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is also to the Premier. If we were on Broadway, this seven-year run would be known as McGuinty’s Follies, and the follies keep coming.

Take the government’s plan for their so-called smart meters. It isn’t working either. Windsor’s hydro company, EnWin, announced it is delaying the switch to time-of-use rates. According to their director of regulatory affairs, they’re waiting until “policy has worked itself out.”

What exactly is Windsor’s hydro company worried about?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Energy.

Hon. Brad Duguid: That’s not it all. In fact, across this province local distribution companies have been—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Minister.

Hon. Brad Duguid: That’s simply not the case. Local distribution companies right across this province have been doing a terrific job implementing smart meters: 4 million of 4.5 million smart meters have gone into homes across this province. It’s gone smoothly, it’s on time, and it’s on budget, contrary to what the leader of the third party keeps trying to tell people. What you’re saying is simply not true.

Now, we know that—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock. The member from Renfrew.

I’d ask the honourable member to withdraw the comment.

Hon. Brad Duguid: I’m sorry, Mr. Speaker. I should have said “inaccurate.” Yes, I withdraw—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock. We need an unequivocal withdrawal, please.

Hon. Brad Duguid: I withdraw. I’m pleased to withdraw.

We know what’s happened in Windsor. EnWin is totally aware of what’s gone on there. They went to implement and installed smart meters in some homes that they probably shouldn’t have. They’re completely aware of that. We’ve been in touch with them, and the Ministry of Transportation has. They’ll ensure that that doesn’t happen again.

With the millions of smart meters going in across the province, I want to once again assure this Legislature that they’re going in on time and on—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: On August 4, the Ontario Energy Board issued a decision requiring more than 40 local distribution companies, including EnWin, to switch to time-of-use pricing by June 2011. But EnWin is ignoring the decision, saying they won’t make the switch until December 2012. Their spokesperson says, “You don’t often get rewarded for being on the cutting edge of those things.” Why would a local utility be so reluctant to be on the cutting edge?

Hon. Brad Duguid: EnWin, like most local distribution companies, is owned by the city of Windsor. I’m sure the city of Windsor will want to ensure that EnWin is doing everything possible to ensure that the people of Windsor, like people right across this province, will be able to participate in these very important conservation measures: have the opportunity to shift their use and have the opportunity to save the system considerable amounts of dollars going forward, something that the NDP used to support.

Those were the days, when the NDP used to support conservation. Now, with this new leader of the third party, they’ve moved away from supporting conservation, just like they’ve moved away from supporting the investments we need to make in renewables, to build a cleaner, more modern system of energy. Clearly that party’s—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Final supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: EnWin is explicitly ignoring the Ontario Energy Board’s decision to switch to time-of-use pricing by June 2011. Is the Premier concerned that a local utility, in the finance minister’s own community, no less, is so concerned about the $1.5-billion not-so-smart meter program that they’re putting it off?

Hon. Brad Duguid: It’s very, very obvious that the formerly bright green party has gone absolutely dark.

The leader of the third party no longer stands for conservation, no longer stands for the need to encourage people to shift their use to off-peak times. She no longer supports renewable energy and the important investments that we have to make in that. She no longer supports our investments to modernize our energy system so we can ensure that Ontario families have a clean, modern energy system to drive us forward into a prosperous future. She doesn’t support the thousands of jobs being created as a result of these efforts: 300 in her own riding. She stands completely against those jobs. I think the Hamilton Spectator should be aware of that. I think her constituents should be aware of that.

Boy, that party has shifted a long way from those days when they believed in green energy, when they believed—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

TOBACCO CONTROL

Mr. Peter Shurman: My question is for the Minister of Health Promotion: How many hospitals have undermined your smoke-free Ontario policy by handing out contraband cigarettes to patients, like Hôtel-Dieu Grace Hospital in Windsor has done?

Hon. Margarett R. Best: To the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I was very shocked and I was very disappointed when I heard on Friday that the member opposite has chosen to continue the Conservative Party’s drive-by smear campaign on front-line workers. But this time, they’ve gone the next step: Now they are attacking front-line mental health workers.

I think it is shameful. I think it is unacceptable. I actually would urge the member opposite to speak to his caucus colleagues who were part of the Select Committee on Mental Health and Addictions. I would urge the member opposite to speak to the member from Whitby–Oshawa, to speak to the member from Dufferin–Caledon. These are members of the select committee on mental health. They came together in a non-partisan way. They listened to the challenges faced by people with mental illness. They listened to front-line workers; they listened to parents. They came up with—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Shurman: It is front-line health professionals who are blowing the whistle on the McGuinty Liberals turning garages into emergency rooms and allowing hospitals to hand out contraband cigarettes.

Luann Kapasi, communications coordinator for the hospital, admits the cigarettes came from a native reserve. And if you wonder what they look like, I’ll send some over to you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The honourable member knows that props are not to be used.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Yes, it was a prop.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Minister of Community Safety.

Please continue.

Mr. Peter Shurman: First, the hospital said there was nothing wrong with handing out the cigarettes, but then stopped doing it.

This is a government whose priorities have been to ban cigarettes from cars and apartment buildings but which turns a blind eye to the sale of tax-free contraband cigarettes, Minister. Now you allow them to be distributed at hospitals.

Which is more harmful: contraband cigarettes that you hand out at Hôtel-Dieu Grace, or the carbon monoxide fumes in your ER garages?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I am constantly astonished by how low they go over there.

Let’s get back to the issue that was raised. Michael Perley, the director of the Ontario Campaign for Action on Tobacco, a leader in smoke-free Ontario, says this: “Most physicians would agree that tobacco is very commonly used by people with mental illnesses, such as schizophrenia, as a way to self-medicate.... ‘Because it calms them down, reduces the anxiety.’ He said to criticize hospitals for handing out cigarettes is far too simplistic.”

On the issue of contraband, if in fact they are contraband, that is completely unacceptable. But I do remind the member opposite that the member from Niagara West–Glanbrook, the member from Haldimand, the member from Oxford and the member from Renfrew all voted against the Smoke-Free Ontario Act.

POVERTY

Mr. Michael Prue: My question is to the Premier. In its new report, the 25 in 5 Network for Poverty Reduction says the government “gave poverty reduction shorter shrift” this year, and went on to say that the government’s “lack of decisive, timely initiatives ... suggests the government may have taken its eye off the prize.”

The report shows that the government has only fulfilled seven of its 45 commitments required to reduce poverty; 25 in 5 criticizes the government for cutting the special diet allowance and for failing to invest in housing affordability, employment equity and income adequacy for social assistance recipients.

The question: Why is the McGuinty government giving this short shrift to poverty reduction?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Children and Youth Services.

Hon. Laurel C. Broten: I want to thank 25 in 5 for their report. We certainly look forward to reviewing it in more detail this afternoon. But I do want to put some quotes out, because the member opposite certainly hasn’t been complete in what he says that 25 in 5 say, so let me tell you.

“Ontario was smart to stay the course on poverty reduction. Investments in the Ontario child benefit and minimum wage increases helped put dollars on Main Street, stimulating local economies at a time when they needed it most....

“Full-day kindergarten for children aged four and five is under way in many communities and a significant investment has been made in the next generation of Ontarians....

“Though more children and their families fell into poverty during the recession, government actions at the height of the economic downturn prevented many more from spiralling into deeper poverty than they would have without public assistance.”

Speaker—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: My question is also to the Premier: 25 in 5 is not the only coalition lamenting the lack of progress on poverty reduction. The Housing Network of Ontario is concerned that the government’s new housing strategy will not set targets for the construction of new affordable housing units, will not put in place a housing benefit to make housing more affordable for low-income Ontarians, and will not allow municipalities to require that affordable units be part of new housing developments. Why should Ontarians believe the government’s housing strategy will make a difference when its poverty strategy has failed to reduce poverty?

Hon. Laurel C. Broten: We work every day on this side of the House to undertake the steps we put forward in our poverty reduction plan, which is a five-year plan, and we are coming up on the end of two years into that plan. That really differs us from the other side of the House, because there’s no plan on that side of the House. The party opposite continues to act in a blind, partisan way, attacking the poverty reduction strategy simply because it’s not theirs.

I can tell you that we’re very proud of the steps that we’ve taken on this side of the House, again in contrast to the other side. They voted against six increases to social assistance; they voted against the creation of 22,000 affordable child care spaces; they voted against stabilizing the rent bank and providing 30,000 rent supplements; they voted against raising minimum wage; they voted against taking 90,000 low-income Ontarians off the tax rolls; and they voted against the 2009 stimulus package, which invested $1.2 billion in the affordable housing—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

ENERGY POLICIES

Mr. Charles Sousa: My question is for the Minister of Energy. Last week, the government presented its updated long-term energy plan. A key piece of that plan is the commitment to nuclear energy generating about 50% of our electricity. Central to that commitment is a need to procure new nuclear units in order to maintain that capacity and the reliability that Ontarians deserve and have come to count on.

I’ve had the pleasure of meeting with nuclear industry representatives at events like their supplier day, and more recently at AECL’s awards dinner. Our nuclear industry is renowned the world over for their accomplishments in R&D and innovation. It’s also a key economic driver.

Minister, Ontarians want vision and they want certainty when it comes to energy policy in the province. Can the minister offer certainty with respect to nuclear power when it comes to sustaining its supply and reliability?

Hon. Brad Duguid: The member from Mississauga South is absolutely correct. Modernizing our nuclear fleet is essential to ensuring that Ontario has the reliable baseload power that it needs going forward.

Our long-term energy plan affirms our commitment to purchase two new nuclear units at Darlington and support the refurbishment of 10 others to guarantee this supply. Unfortunately for all Ontarians, the federal government has made this process significantly more difficult than it needs to be with their decision to sell off AECL.

While the Leader of the Opposition’s advice to us is that we should have purchased those units at a price way too high, I think the Leader of the Opposition and his party are the only impulse nuclear shoppers in this province today. We’re determined to ensure that we do that at a fair price. The Premier, myself as Minister of Energy, and others in this government have gone to the federal government and said, “We need you to work with us to make this happen.” The only people silent on this have been the Tories—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Charles Sousa: It’s indeed unfortunate that the federal government is playing antics with such an important institution, one that employs over a thousand men and women in the city of Mississauga alone. The nuclear industry in Canada earned over $1.2 billion in exports in 2008 and generates tremendous economic activity through trickle-down business.

Certainly the province’s commitment to nuclear energy comes with a host of economic benefits, as well as offering reliability to our electricity system. Yet there are those in this House who do not support emissions-free nuclear energy, even though half our power comes from this reliable source. Those same critics, who have offered no plan or alternatives, also stand clearly opposed to the economic benefits of having a robust nuclear industry here in Ontario.

Minister, will you ensure that the economic benefit is fully taken into account with the overhaul of Ontario’s energy supply system?

Hon. Brad Duguid: The economic benefits of modernizing and maintaining our nuclear capacity simply can’t be ignored. In a report released this year, the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters estimate that the employment and economic benefits of refurbishing and modernizing our Darlington and Bruce reactors will result in some 25,000 Ontario jobs and $5 billion in annual economic activity. Twenty-five thousand jobs: That’s like the population of Owen Sound. In fact, the Canadian nuclear industry supports about 70,000 jobs nationwide, about 80% based right here in the province of Ontario.

All political parties in this House should be supporting those 70,000 Canadian workers in this industry. All political parties and leaders in the House should be beseeching Ottawa that they, like us, should be standing behind this nuclear industry in Ontario, standing behind those 70,000 workers. From the Leader of the Opposition—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

ILLEGAL DRUG OPERATIONS

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: My question is to the Premier of Ontario. Under your watch, at any given time there are nearly 500 clandestine drug operations, either grow ops or drug labs, turning Ottawa homes into crime scenes—at any given time, Premier. This past fall, $1.2 million worth of marijuana was seized at a grow op in London while another $14 million was seized in Durham.

The time to crack down and protect Ontario families from the devastating effects of these illegal drug operations, whether it’s health and safety or other criminal acts, is now. That’s why I’m going to ask you: Will you support Tim Hudak and the Ontario PC caucus plan to force these drug operations out of business and create a province-wide registry that will target them?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services.

Hon. James J. Bradley: I think we would recognize that all members of the Legislature and all members of the public take very seriously the issue of grow ops, which in recent years have become an even greater concern. As well, all of us met—at least, as many as could—with representatives of the Ontario Real Estate Association, which has had many suggestions as to how these matters could be solved, and members of police services across the province.

Whenever a private member’s bill is introduced in the House, of course, we ensure that there’s a full debate. I know the member will be looking forward to all members of the Legislature contributing to that debate, analyzing the bill carefully and making an ultimate judgment on it. But I can assure you that our government has taken many steps forward in this direction to eliminate grow ops and to deal with the very issues that the member has brought to our attention.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: If the minister agrees that it is of greater concern today, that means you need to do more. If you want to reference the real estate association of Ontario, then you’ll realize that this is the bill they have endorsed and they’re behind.

Illegal drug operations also mean that hydro is being stolen from everyday, hard-working Ontario families who are playing by the rules. In British Columbia, it is estimated that over $100 million a year in electricity is stolen to support illegal drug activity in that province. Without a proper registry tracking these crime scenes, the Premier and the minister don’t know how many tens of millions of taxpayer dollars are being stolen from Ontario families to support these illegal drug operations.

Will you support the Ontario PC plan to target these drug operations and rid their illegal activity from every community from Ottawa to Thunder Bay, and everywhere in between?

Hon. James J. Bradley: It’s very interesting—and I know your energy critic will find this interesting—that one of the greatest steps forward in terms of police being able to detect grow ops has been smart meters. Smart meters have alerted the police to potential grow operations in the province.

I can tell you as well that we have a provincial advisory group amalgamated with the Green Tide Action Group to fight grow-ops. We’ve hired 148 new police officers to fight grow ops and other organized crime. We’re getting results. In 2009, 500 grow ops and meth labs were shut down, 490 guns were seized, almost $10 million in cash and property were seized, and drugs worth $227 million were seized. We passed—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Stop the clock, please.

I’m troubled at reminding the same members on both sides of the House over and over again. Certainly, the pages note it. I read a very interesting

article in the Woodstock Sentinel Review of former pages making note of that. I’d just ask honourable members—the occasional interjection is often very good for this place, but constant interjections are not helpful to good debate in this chamber.

New question.

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION

M me France Gélinas: Ma question est pour la ministre de la Santé et des Soins de longue durée.

After weeks of the government responding to rather embarrassing questions over hospitals paying Liberal-friendly lobbyists exorbitant hospital consultant salaries—then we heard of exotic trips and fancy meals on the public dime—the government went into damage control and brought in a bill that would bring hospitals under freedom of information. But then the government time-allocated the bill to limit debate, rushed through the public consultation phase—we never did hear from the Ottawa specialists—and then on Friday, they brought in a last-minute amendment. This is my only chance to ask: What will the minister’s amendment do?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: That is actually a very good question, and one that I’m happy to respond to.

I’m very proud that this government acted very quickly when the Auditor General came in with his report on practices that were happening in our hospitals; practices that simply were unacceptable. I’m very pleased that we were able to introduce that legislation. We actually went further than the Auditor General recommended, and we are including hospitals in freedom-of-information legislation.

We’re working very hard in our health care sector. We’re really starting with hospitals, to improve the quality of care in our hospitals. This is something that is not just better for patient care, it’s also better for the system as a whole. So we’re trying to strike the right balance between transparency and giving the hospitals the tools they need to do this—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

M me France Gélinas: Well, I guess the limited debate in the question didn’t really answer my question. I want to know: What will the amendment do?

When I talk to the Information and Privacy Commissioner, who is the Ontario expert on these matters, she makes it clear that quality-of-care information would continue to be protected in hospitals without any amendment to the bill.

There are dozens and dozens of agencies, there are universities, there are boards and there are commissions that are subject to freedom of information, so with the amendment and the minister’s logic, does that mean that all of these agencies are not able to improve quality because they are subject to FOI?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: As I said in the first question, we introduced this legislation and we have spent a lot of time since then listening to people and organizations that would be directly impacted by that. I know the member opposite was in committee. She heard representation from various stakeholder groups who had concerns that their quality initiatives would be jeopardized if we did not actually—not exclude, but exempt certain information from being part of freedom of information.

This is very important legislation. This is a very important, big step forward. It’s important we get it right; that we protect patient privacy. I’m very pleased that the Information and Privacy Commissioner is, in fact, supporting our amendment.

CONSUMER PROTECTION

Mr. Mario Sergio: My question is for the Minister of the Environment. Minister, the need to keep hazardous waste material out of the landfill is obvious: It takes up valuable space, it’s a waste of our resources and it poses a potential threat to our drinking water if not handled properly. However, the costs associated with proper disposal should only be used to dispose of that product.

Some retailers are taking advantage of people wanting to do the right thing: They refused to refund the disposal charge when my 72-year-old constituent returned an alarm clock. My question is very simple: Why don’t retailers have to refund the collected disposal fee when consumers return an electronic product?

Hon. John Wilkinson: If you want to know a member of this House who fights for his constituents, it’s the member for York West. I want to thank him for fighting for his constituent until he got the refund that he was rightfully entitled to. Thank you for being on the side of the consumer and for bringing this to my attention so my ministry could deal with and help you resolve this issue.

This is really about the incorrect actions of a particular retailer, so let me be crystal clear: All retailers must refund the full cost charged to consumers, period. I was appalled by the actions of the retailer in this case. There is absolutely no excuse for not returning the entire amount, absolutely none. A refund is a refund is a refund in the province of Ontario, and I am requesting that retailers correct any other incidents like this. Simply charge the correct fee, and when a product is returned, return the entire amount, period. I want to thank the member for York West.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Mario Sergio: Minister, I appreciate your clearing up the confusion and I also want to echo the minister’s disappointment. It should not have taken Mr. La Valle contacting me and me contacting the minister before something was done. Thank you for reiterating that disposal charges are supposed to be collected specifically for the future disposal of that product, nothing more, and should be returned when the electronic is returned to any retailer.

But, Minister, this incident raises a larger question about what recourse and protection consumers have if they are being overcharged on fees or in any other way being taken advantage of by a retailer. Consumers need to know that the government is there to help them. Would the minister tell us just what the government is doing to assure consumers that they are being protected?

Hon. John Wilkinson: First, I personally wrote to Ontario Electronic Stewardship and requested they review the fees that they were charging on their products. As of December 1, the new fee will be 40 cents. I also told Waste Diversion Ontario to work with the industry-funded organizations to ensure all retailers have correct return policies.

Second, I implemented a number of consumer protection measures when I cancelled the July 1 program back in October. We have a consumer protection hotline so consumers can report any suspicious fees, and the special team I created investigates each and every one of these complaints. I requested that a consumer representative be added to the boards that run each and every one of these programs. Let me reiterate: There should be a consumer on every one of these boards that is run and funded by industry. If they did that and they listened to their customers, they would not have the problems they are having today.

We are committed to diverting hazardous waste from our landfills in a—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

IDENTITY THEFT

Mr. John O’Toole: My question is to the Minister of Government Services. Minister, at a time when identity theft and fraud strike fear into Ontario families, your government has shown it can’t be trusted with basic information such as a driver’s licence. The Toronto Star has reported 93 cases of licence fraud in your Ministry of Government Services; 93 Ontarians have had their personal information stolen right under the government’s watch.

My question to you, Minister: Can you explain why so many of your problem systems are leaving Ontario citizens vulnerable to identity theft?

Hon. Harinder S. Takhar: I want to thank the member for asking the question. I cannot speak of any specific cases if the matter is under investigation, but I want to tell you we are very concerned about the security of any information from any of our citizens, and whenever it comes to our notice, we take immediate action.

There was an example of the address changes happening not in the right way. We immediately shut our systems down and put the systems in place so that we could correct the information and these things don’t happen again. We are very concerned about it. We take immediate action and we have systems in place that actually protect the privacy and the information of citizens.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. John O’Toole: Minister, you should be concerned. In one instance, an address was changed to an abandoned strip club. The victim had no idea and only learned of the fraud six months later.

Not only is the minister failing to protect the privacy of information of Ontarians; he’s also hiding it from those affected. The privacy—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I’d ask the honourable member to withdraw the reference that he just made to the minister.

Mr. John O’Toole: Well, he shouldn’t be hiding it.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Withdraw the comment.

Mr. John O’Toole: I withdraw. He has not made the information available, and the privacy commissioner is clear that the system—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I don’t need help. You’re heckling so much that you can’t even hear. I heard the honourable member withdraw. It wasn’t loud, but I heard him. I don’t need help from armchair ministers who would like to be Speakers. Do you know what? I very much would love to give you the opportunity to come and sit in this chair and experience how much fun it is.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): My apologies, Minister, or—

Mr. John O’Toole: Thank you, Speaker.

Clearly, the privacy commissioner says the system is flawed and leaves Ontarians dangerously exposed. I’m going to ask you again, Minister, to explain to Ontarians why your ministry is leaving this information exposed to theft and fraud under your watch.

Hon. Harinder S. Takhar: Let me tell you, I think as soon as it came to our attention, we shut down the system.

We worked very closely with the privacy commissioner to address this issue, and this is what she said: “I applaud ServiceOntario for taking this necessary step....

“We commend MGS for its decision to shut down the address change function for driver’s licences available from both the ServiceOntario website as well as the ServiceOntario kiosks, and for its prompt response to this incident, including contacting affected individuals. We further note that MGS has co-operated fully with the IPC over the course of this investigation.”

Let me just say more. She said further, “MGS stated that both systems would remain shut down until the improvements had been” made.

That’s exactly what we did. We made sure that the information is protected, and we worked with the privacy commissioner to make sure that she was involved every step of the way.

LONG-TERM CARE

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. Lifecare Centres is about to sell off seven long-term-care homes, two of which are located in the city of Hamilton. What will the McGuinty government do to ensure that Hamilton does not lose a single long-term-care bed as a result of this pending sale?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Health.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Thank you for the question. When it comes to long-term care, we really are determined to make sure that people do, in fact, have access to long-term care as close to home as possible.

The licences that go with long-term care are—we take control of those licences. We do not allow the transfer of licences outside of the LHIN, unless there is a very compelling reason to do that. We monitor this extremely closely.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The St. Joseph’s Villa family council in my community and the Advocacy Centre for the Elderly are very concerned about the sale of long-term-care beds. The lack of information around this sale and the impact it will have on Hamilton seniors as well is very, very frightening. “Our seniors deserve better than this,” the council said in a recent letter to the Minister of Health. The current proposal means moving 92 beds from St. Olga’s Lifecare Centre in Hamilton to Cama Woodlands Nursing Home in Burlington.

Why won’t the government make all of the conditions of this sale public to ensure Hamiltonians that no long-term-care beds will be lost in our community, particularly acknowledging that we also have an alternate-level-of-care-bed crisis in our city?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: When it comes to this particular case, I will undertake to get more information and speak to the member opposite about this particular situation.

What I can tell you is that we and our LHINs are very, very focused on reducing ALC rates in our hospitals. This is a big challenge for our hospitals and for our LHINs. The problem is in the hospital; the solution, however, is in the community. So we are building up supports in the community to support people. We are expanding capacity in long-term care. As I say, this particular case is one that I will look into more carefully.

FIRST NATIONS

Mr. Michael A. Brown: I have a question for the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs. There are 20 First Nations in my riding, and it’s important that I have the opportunity to speak with them on important issues, which I do on almost a daily basis. But it was important to have them all in one place here in Toronto last week. Last week, I was able to participate in your First Nations cabinet day meetings and was able to meet with a number of chiefs at the same time—not just from my riding, but from across the province. It was a great opportunity for me to hear updates on important issues from the various communities in one afternoon.

I understand the importance of building and maintaining strong relationships with First Nations as constituents and community partners. For example, I had the opportunity to meet with Minister Gravelle and yourself, Minister, with the First Nations from Michipicoten and from Pic Mobert.

I want to know, Minister, can you tell me how this day came—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: The member for Algoma–Manitoulin has been developing relationships with First Nations for years, over thousands of kilometres.

It’s really important that we have the opportunity for First Nations to meet, not just once a year but all year, with members of the government.

One of the things that my predecessor, now the Minister of Energy, heard last year when we attended the Special Chiefs Assembly was that it would be helpful, from the perspective of First Nations, to be able to interact at that assembly with my cabinet colleagues. I’m pleased to say that from what I understand was their first time at the chiefs’ assembly, 17 of my cabinet colleagues were available for meetings, for the reception, and that almost 100 separate meetings with ministers took place. This is reflective of a very strengthened relationship.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Michael A. Brown: Thank you, Minister. I was delighted to see so many of my colleagues—MPPs and ministers—attending the meetings and the reception afterwards. I’m sure we all had a productive day with the exchange of information.

But I’m very surprised that five years after agreeing to it, the federal government has not had a similar meeting with First Nations and Premiers across the country. Our Premier meets every year with aboriginal leadership and organizations to discuss important issues, and our Premier has asked the federal government on several occasions to hold a federal meeting on aboriginal issues.

Will the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs tell this House what else the government is doing to strengthen its relationship with First Nations?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: The much-strengthened relationship is a result of Premier McGuinty’s direction, his acceptance of the Ipperwash recommendations and his determination that all peoples residing in Ontario need to work together for a much-strengthened province.

We stood shoulder to shoulder with First Nations and said to the federal government that we want to continue the exemption under the HST, the point-of-sale exemption, that existed since 1980. It was that, working together with First Nations, that enabled us to turn the federal government’s position around.

We stand together with First Nations in attempting to realize greater economic opportunities for our $45-million training partnership fund that we got in the last budget, and we’ll stand with First Nations on the education issue, but we need the federal government to be a real partner in this work. We need the federal government to do what it needs to do under the Constitution to strengthen—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

WIND TURBINES

Ms. Sylvia Jones: My question is for the Minister of Energy. In rural Ontario, there is a lot of concern about the lack of community input surrounding where wind turbines are placed. We also understand that landowners can opt out of the setback rules.

Will you ensure that setbacks are consistent across Ontario, regardless of where you live?

Hon. Brad Duguid: We put in place one of the most stringent setback rules in all of North America when it comes to wind turbines, not only on setbacks but in terms of noise standards as well. It’s a model for North America, it’s among the strongest in this province and it’s something that—and I encourage the member, because I know it’s tough for her, not having a plan of her own, to be able to talk about things like wind and energy, to go to ontario.ca/energyplan to see what an energy plan is about.

In that plan, we talk about the important role that wind energy will play in creating thousands of jobs across this province and helping to build a cleaner province, a more prosperous province, for ourselves and for the next generation.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Sylvia Jones: Minister, you know that your energy plan has been panned by experts across Ontario. The Green Energy Act left setbacks for turbines to be set by regulation. Can you share with the House what criteria cabinet used to determine 550-metre setbacks for homes and five-kilometre setbacks for offshore? It wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact that the member from Scarborough Centre sits in cabinet and your change has eliminated any possibility of a turbine being sited in his riding, would it?

Hon. Brad Duguid: That’s beyond ridiculous, but let me return to the long-term energy plan, because some of the comments that the member made are simply inaccurate.

I look at comments from Rodney Sheppard, president of the Society of Energy Professionals. This is what he said about our plan: “Clean nuclear power and hydroelectricity are the foundation of Ontario’s electricity supply....This announcement signals a return to rational long-term planning in the province’s electricity policy.” This is going to create a lot of jobs—good jobs—for a lot of people, the kind of jobs we all want our kids to get.

I have lots of quotes here. Let me share with you what Adam White, president of the Association of Major Power Consumers in Ontario, said: “Competitive electricity rates are an absolute priority for AMPCO members. The plan sets out a framework to create a reliable, economically viable electricity system for Ontario. This plan”—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

FIRST NATIONS

Mr. Gilles Bisson: My question is to the Premier. A couple weeks ago, I brought to your attention the condition in Attawapiskat in regard to 90 families living in contractors’ trailers. You since responded to that letter and said you will do everything to work with the federal government in order to respond to the problem.

You will know that there was a fire in Kashechewan, where two men died in a jail. There was a coroner’s inquest that flowed from there. One of the recommendations under the coroner’s inquest says that Canada and Ontario should work together to ensure that standards and service levels in First Nations communities are equivalent to those in non-First Nations communities in Ontario. Is it going to take another fire and another death before we decide that the standards in Attawapiskat should be the same as for every other citizen in this province?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Attorney General.

Hon. Christopher Bentley: I’ll answer this as the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs. I think my friend raises an interesting point, but his ire is directed to the wrong place. He knows well that most of the services and issues, including the housing issue raised in his letter, are directly the responsibility of the federal government. I understand that he wants to direct the questions to this side of the House because he can’t get the feds to listen, but the fact of the matter is, we’ve got to get the federal government to listen. We’ve got to get the federal government to take these issues seriously.

We’ve got to get the federal government to stand up, whether it’s water standards or housing standards for First Nations. It is absolutely unacceptable that federal infrastructure funding for housing needs, for example, has been flatlined instead of going up to meet the needs of the population. Call on the federal government, I say to my friend, to live up to their constitutional—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Gilles Bisson: If you’re walking down the street and you see somebody about to be murdered, do you walk away and say it’s somebody else’s responsibility? The issue is that these are citizens of the province of Ontario. As citizens of the province of Ontario, they are entitled to the full protection of the law. The problem here is that you’re right: You have a federal government that’s uninterested and unwilling to do anything. But does that absolve the responsibility of the Legislature of Ontario and this government to ensure that those citizens are safe? There are fire standards everywhere in this province. I’m asking you, will you enforce those on reserve?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: Once again, my friend uses the opportunity to direct his comments to where they cannot be most effectively met. It is tempting, yes, I know, for the government of Ontario, speaking on behalf of the people of Ontario, to try and jump in everywhere that the federal government refuses to live up to its constitutional responsibility. All that means is that we’re filling in the potholes the federal government leaves behind and we’re not making the progress that my friend and this government are determined to make.

I call on the NDP to join with us and First Nations in getting the federal government to live up to its constitutional responsibility, to live up to its moral responsibility, to do something to assist First Nations on First Nations lands in the province of Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The time for question period has ended. Just before we deal with a deferred vote, I want to apologize to the House. I recognize that, as Speaker, it’s important for me to bite my tongue at times and not go off the way that I did, and I apologize to all members for that.

DEFERRED VOTES

NARCOTICS SAFETY

AND AWARENESS ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LA SÉCURITÉ

ET LA SENSIBILISATION

EN MATIÈRE DE STUPÉFIANTS

Deferred vote on the motion for third reading of Bill 101,

An Act to provide for monitoring the prescribing and dispensing of certain controlled substances / Projet de loi 101, Loi prévoyant la surveillance des activités liées à la prescription et à la préparation de certaines substances désignées.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1139 to 1144.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Ms. Smith has moved third reading of Bill 101. All those in favour will rise one at a time to be recorded by the Clerk.

Ayes

Arnott, Ted

Bailey, Robert

Balkissoon, Bas

Bentley, Christopher

Best, Margarett

Bisson, Gilles

Bradley, James J.

Broten, Laurel C.

Brown, Michael A.

Brownell, Jim

Chan, Michael

Chiarelli, Bob

Chudleigh, Ted

Clark, Steve

Colle, Mike

Delaney, Bob

Dickson, Joe

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Dunlop, Garfield

Elliott, Christine

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fonseca, Peter

Gerretsen, John

Gélinas, France

Gravelle, Michael

Hardeman, Ernie

Hudak, Tim

Jaczek, Helena

Jeffrey, Linda

Johnson, Rick

Jones, Sylvia

Kormos, Peter

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leal, Jeff

Marchese, Rosario

Martiniuk, Gerry

Matthews, Deborah

Mauro, Bill

McGuinty, Dalton

McNeely, Phil

Meilleur, Madeleine

Miller, Norm

Milloy, John

Mitchell, Carol

Moridi, Reza

Munro, Julia

Murray, Glen R.

Naqvi, Yasir

O’Toole, John

Phillips, Gerry

Prue, Michael

Ramal, Khalil

Ruprecht, Tony

Savoline, Joyce

Sergio, Mario

Shurman, Peter

Smith, Monique

Sousa, Charles

Takhar, Harinder S.

Van Bommel, Maria

Wilkinson, John

Wilson, Jim

Witmer, Elizabeth

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Yakabuski, John

Zimmer, David

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Those opposed?

The Clerk of the Assembly (Ms. Deborah Deller): The ayes are 69; the nays are 0.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I declare the motion carried.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): There being no further deferred votes, this House stands recessed until 1 p.m. this afternoon.

The House recessed from 1147 to 1300.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Mr. Kevin Daniel Flynn: It gives me great pleasure to introduce in the member’s gallery Darla Campbell, who’s a former member of the Oakville Chamber of Commerce, and her daughter Natalie Campbell, who’s in grade 5 at Munns Public School. If we give them a warm Queen’s Park welcome, I’m sure they’d appreciate it.

Hon. Rick Bartolucci: I would just like to stand up and welcome several people from the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing who are with us today in the public gallery. They have been instrumental in the work we are doing with regard to the long-term affordable housing strategy, and I just wanted to publicly acknowledge them and thank them for their great work.

M me France Gélinas: I would like to introduce Lee McKenna duCharme from the Association of Ontario Health Centres.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): She also has her roots in the great riding of Elgin–Middlesex–London.

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

SMART METERS

Mrs. Joyce Savoline: I stand in the House today to again address the very concerning issue of how smart meters penalize those who are at home during peak hours: folks such as seniors and stay-at-home parents with young children.

As of November 1, Ontarians are paying 9.9 cents per kilowatt hour for their electricity from 7 a.m. to 11 a.m. and from 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. From 11 a.m. to 5 p.m., it reduces slightly to 8.1 cents per kilowatt hour. From 9 p.m. to 7 a.m., when most Ontarians are sleeping, the cost drops to 5.1 cents per kilowatt hour.

The McGuinty Liberals say that they are “encouraging us all to think more about how and when we use electricity” and “how working together to reduce our use at peak times makes good sense.”

What doesn’t make good sense to me is expecting working parents to pay 9.9 cents per kilowatt hour to bathe their children, cook dinner or do their laundry unless they wait until after 9 p.m.

I don’t know what dictionary the Premier is using to define “working together,” but he’s certainly not working together with our seniors and families, and he’s forcing them to keep the heat off till 9 p.m.

It’s shameful that this government continues to place the biggest burden on Ontarians who are unable to alter their lifestyle in order to accommodate this Premier’s new rate system.

NORTH YORK GENERAL HOSPITAL

Mr. David Zimmer: I want to speak today about the launch of a bold new technology program at North York General Hospital.

On November 17, I, along with Monte Kwinter, spoke at the launch of eCare at North York General. eCare is an innovation designed to improve patient safety, reduce medication errors and provide clinical staff with the latest evidence-based information to inform their decisions.

eCare will replace the traditional manual system and administration of medication. Using the most advanced and up-to-date medical literature, information and technology, North York General is raising the standard in patient care. The new technology captures orders electronically, records medications that have been administered, documents prescriptions and streamlines the work of doctors and nurses at the hospital.

eCare will transform the way hospitals treat and care for patients, ultimately helping people get better faster and saving lives. To quote Dr. Tim Rutledge, the interim president and CEO, “eCare is a significant step forward in patient safety, quality of care and achieving a paperless medical record.”

I commend North York General Hospital’s initiative and all of the medical professionals, physicians, nurses, pharmacists and other support personnel involved in bringing eCare to fruition. The leadership and efforts of North York General Hospital are a true reflection of the unwavering commitment to patient care from a first-class institution.

APPRENTICESHIP TRAINING

Mr. Randy Hillier: Joel Shaw is an intelligent young man in my riding who has been home-schooled. He wants to take

part in an apprenticeship program and has an employer, MacPherson’s Auto in Carleton Place, that is willing and eager to hire him because of his excellent work ethic, high aptitude and skill level. However, this government stands directly in the way of his employment. This Liberal government will not let Joel work at MacPherson’s Auto.

Since April of this year, Joel and his father, Kevin, have endeavoured to satisfy the requirements of the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities, but they can’t because the MTCU doesn’t know what they require. In seven years, the MTCU still has not developed a protocol or a process to recognize homeschoolers to become apprentices.

Government must be a facilitator of the economy, not an obstacle that comes between a willing worker and a willing employer. When will this government get out of the way of people seeking opportunities? When will the government return to its role of preventing injustice instead of, like in this case of Joel Shaw, creating injustice?

PEEL CHILDREN’S CENTRE

Mr. Vic Dhillon: I rise to recognize the efforts of the Peel Children’s Centre, which is an accredited children’s mental health centre serving the region of Peel. This organization has done a lot of great work in my riding and all around Peel.

On November 9, Peel Children’s Centre celebrated the beginning of construction of a residential treatment facility for elementary-aged schoolchildren with serious mental health challenges. Many children who have mental health challenges will have a new safe place with professional mental health specialists to assist in their recovery. This facility will have an area where families can have group counselling in order to try to get families back together. In situations where this is not possible, the mental health professionals will help children learn to deal with their issues in order for them to be integrated into a foster home.

This project could not have happened without the financial support of the Ministry of Children and Youth Services. I wish to thank the minister for her support of this project, and members of my community. Without their support, this project would not have come to fruition.

Once again, congratulations to the Peel Children’s Centre. Thank you for your commitment to help children who have mental health issues.

LOCAL DEMOCRACY WEEK

Mr. John O’Toole: Last Friday, I had the pleasure of participating in Local Democracy Week here at Queen’s Park. Local Democracy Week is all about educating our youth on how democracy can be a force for positive change in their lives and in the life of our community.

On Friday, students had the opportunity to tour the Legislative Assembly, meet with the Clerk and officers of the assembly, learn about the election process from the Chief Electoral Officer and hear a keynote address from Free the Children’s Marc Kielburger.

I was joined by grade 10 students from Bowmanville High School in Durham last week, and I’d like to thank their teacher, David Rempel, for the many years he has made learning an experience for his children and how they’ve gained an understanding of democracy and how it works. I commend Mr. Rempel for his professional instruction to our students, including my children in the past. One of the students, Shannon Thompson, a former Leading Girls, Building Communities Award recipient, was among the students from Bowmanville High School attending Local Democracy Week.

I’d also like to thank you, Mr. Speaker, and your staff, including Maggie Head, for all the hard work in ensuring that Local Democracy Week was a success. I want to encourage, and encourage strongly, all students who participated and visited Queen’s Park to be active participants in our democratic process. Whether it’s being active in your community, running for office or helping someone run for office, or making an informed vote at election time, I would ask that all people in Ontario stay involved and stay connected.

ASSOCIATION OF ONTARIO

HEALTH CENTRES

M me France Gélinas: I would like to welcome the Association of Ontario Health Centres to Queen’s Park and congratulate them on the great work that they do. AOHC represents non-profit, community-governed, multidisciplinary primary health care organizations, including Ontario’s community health centres, aboriginal health access centres, community family health teams, as well as the Sudbury District Nurse Practitioner Clinics.

They believe that effective primary health care addresses the social determinants of health, including social inclusion, access to shelter, education, income and employment security, food, and a stable ecosystem. The model encompasses primary care, illness prevention and health promotion, and uses a community development approach to building healthy public policy in supportive environments. Their vision is rooted in a care model that provides comprehensive primary care services delivered by interdisciplinary teams of professionals practising within the health promotion framework.

The goal of AOHC is simple: to ensure that more Ontarians have access to primary health care through community-governed health centres that are non-profit and publicly accountable.

Unlike the traditional fee-for-service models, community-governed models of primary care pay salaries and benefits to physicians and other staff.

It is about the right service at the right time by the right provider. Congratulations to AOHC for the great work they do.

MOHAMAD FAKIH

Mr. Khalil Ramal: Thank you for allowing me to share a story of a Ontarian and a successful businessman. His name is Mohamad Fakih. Mr. Fakih is the founder of the famous Mediterranean restaurant chain in the GTA called Paramount Fine Foods.

On a yearly basis, he serves millions of Ontarians. Also, despite the downturn of the economy, he was able to hire more than 100 people to work in his restaurants; amongst those people the best chefs in the province of Ontario.

Mr. Fakih believes strongly in this province as the best place to live, to do business and to maintain a vibrant and successful economy. He has a philosophy: to help others. He has generously helped many organizations, whether religious institutions, sports groups or places for communities.

I want to congratulate Mr. Fakih for his success in the province of Ontario. I wish him all luck. Hopefully, many others will follow his steps.

CANADIAN EDUCATIONAL RESOURCES COUNCIL

Mr. Mike Colle: It’s my pleasure to welcome to the Legislature today the Canadian Educational Resources Council, or CERC, for their very first Queen’s Park Day.

CERC is known as the voice of Canada’s learning resource industry, representing the major educational publishers in Canada. Its members produce roughly 80% of the student learning resources that are currently used in Canadian schools.

I would like to thank CERC’s executive director, Dr. Gerry McIntyre, for the excellent exhibit of educational resources he has arranged for everybody today here at Queen’s Park and for the work he does on behalf of CERC members.

CERC’s members play an important role in applying innovation and technology and lessons learned from front-line teachers to classroom resources. CERC has provided us with opportunities to see first-hand some of the resources that are transforming education today. I have CERC involved with some of the new technology at Joyce Public School in my riding, one of the best public schools in the whole universe.

I encourage all members to visit CERC’s learning resources exhibit in committee room 2 between 2 and 4 p.m. There you will have an opportunity to try out the smart boards—that might be a good idea for some of the members here—laptops and other innovative resources that are transforming modern education.

Be sure to attend CERC’s reception today from 5 to 7 p.m in committee room 2. All are welcome. I look forward to seeing you all there. Let’s check out those smart boards.

EMPLOYMENT PRACTICES

Mr. Jim Brownell: I rise in the House today to correct the record.

I have had the absolute pleasure of representing the riding of Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry and the various communities within my riding since 2003. I’m very proud of the numerous parks, recreation centres, good schools and hospitals, businesses and several tourist attractions that make it a great place to live and a great place to visit.

This is why I was very disappointed when the member from Beaches–East York stood up in the Legislature on Wednesday of last week and made accusations about a hotel and restaurant in my riding—

Mr. Michael Prue: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: If the member is correcting the record, he has to correct his own record.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): That is correct, but this is a member’s statement.

Mr. Jim Brownell: This member accused the Best Western in Cornwall of stealing the wages of their servers when he reported “that the hotel takes 2.5% of the gross bill and it steals the wages of the servers, whether or not an actual tip is given.”

The member must not be aware that when he makes these types of accusations, especially with a business with high standards and service beyond reproach, he is potentially tarnishing the reputation of hundreds of businesses across this province.

Employers and their staff are always working very hard to create a friendly and respectful atmosphere which everyone can enjoy, and I know that the folks at the Best Western Parkway in Cornwall go above and beyond their service to patrons in the community.

I think the member owes an apology to Mr. Paul Lefebvre and his entire staff at the Best Western Parkway in Cornwall. His comments were completely disrespectful and only used for his own political agenda.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

STRONG COMMUNITIES THROUGH

AFFORDABLE HOUSING ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 FAVORISANT

DES COLLECTIVITÉS FORTES

GRÂCE AU LOGEMENT ABORDABLE

Mr. Bartolucci moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 140,

An Act to enact the Housing Services Act, 2010, repeal the Social Housing Reform Act, 2000 and make complementary and other amendments to other Acts / Projet de loi 140, Loi édictant la Loi de 2010 sur les services de logement, abrogeant la Loi de 2000 sur la réforme du logement social et apportant des modifications corrélatives et autres à d’autres lois.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

First reading agreed to.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The minister for a short statement?

Hon. Rick Bartolucci: During ministerial statements.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

Hon. Rick Bartolucci: I rise to introduce legislation that would, if passed, build a strong foundation for an improved housing system that better serves Ontarians. Safe and affordable housing can help people break the cycle of poverty. It provides the foundation families need to raise their children and pursue education, jobs and more opportunity.

The proposed Strong Communities through Affordable Housing Act would establish a new framework that strengthens our role as stewards of Ontario’s housing system, while giving our municipal partners the flexibility to meet the unique needs of their communities.

The strategy and the bill I introduce today are a result of our province-wide consultations. This bill is a key element to our long-term affordable housing strategy, which I announced today at the Wesley Centre, a drop-in centre serving homeless and other at-risk men and women. I applaud Wesley Centre staff for the tremendous work they do.

Poverty is a complex problem that needs to be tackled from a number of different angles. The McGuinty government continues to work hard to break that cycle of poverty. Cuts to the personal income tax, investing in job creation and retraining, the introduction of the Ontario child benefit, the Ontario sales tax credit and Ontario’s poverty reduction strategy—these are all initiatives that are making a difference for low-income families. We are the first to acknowledge that there is more to do, but with this commitment, our government is making another important contribution to this cause.

The proposed legislation would repeal the outdated Social Housing Reform Act, which creates barriers to people in need. The current legislation gets in the way of providing effective services and doesn’t address the full housing continuum. The new legislation would simplify administration and allow our municipal partners to more effectively manage their services to meet the true needs of their communities. Safe, affordable housing provides dignity to people and can give them a foundation from which they can get jobs, raise families and build strong communities.

During our consultations, we heard that much work is needed to make the system effective and workable. For example, today there are over 20 provincial housing and homeless programs operating independently, each with their own set of rules and restrictions. Our strategy will consolidate this patchwork of programs, making them easier for people to understand and access. To do that, we need to rebuild the system from the ground up and ensure the new foundation accommodates opportunities for future growth.

The long-term affordable housing strategy has four pillars. The first pillar will be to put people first. It would reform the rules of rent-geared-to-income assistance and reduce barriers that prevent people from working towards a better future. Secondly, the strategy will also build stronger partnerships with municipalities by improving client services and simplifying a very complex system. Third, it will support affordable housing options. For example, our legislation proposes to amend the Planning Act to require municipalities to establish policies allowing second units in new and existing developments.

Finally, the strategy will establish greater accountability by clarifying the roles and responsibilities of the province and its municipal partners.

This bill is the latest step in the McGuinty government’s ongoing commitment to affordable housing. In 2005, we began the largest affordable housing program in Canadian history, a $734-million partnership with municipalities and the federal government. Last year, we extended that initiative by signing a new agreement with the federal government to deliver a range of new housing to Ontarians. This latest agreement has a combined investment of $1.2 billion in new funding for affordable housing.

The long-term affordable housing strategy and the proposed Strong Communities through Affordable Housing Act would work hand in hand to build on those investments. The legislation would help us build some much-needed flexibility and efficiency into the housing system and help our municipal partners put these resources to work where they are most needed in their communities.

This was the product of a year-long consultation. I would like to thank my parliamentary assistant, Donna Cansfield, for the incredible work she did on that. I urge all members to support this bill.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Responses?

Mrs. Joyce Savoline: I’m pleased to respond on behalf of the Progressive Conservative caucus today on the introduction of the Housing Services Act, 2010, which resulted from the long-term affordable housing strategy.

I would begin by saying that the introduction of this bill has been a long time coming. Ontarians, especially those in affordable housing or those on the lengthy affordable housing waiting list and industry professionals, have been waiting for the long-term affordable housing strategy since the commitment was made in 2007.

The reality is that after months of consultations, more than 1,000 detailed submissions and three years’ time to release this report, there is as much in this report as is still missing. The government certainly hasn’t provided a long-term plan for affordable housing; they have put up a few walls, but this is far from being complete. There is very little in the new strategy. The majority of it talks about new efforts to coordinate different programs while simplifying others. There appear to be few positives in this piece of legislation.

The legislation sets out to give service managers more flexibility, and I must say that is encouraging; it looks like this government has actually taken a small step back and recognized that one size doesn’t fit all. This legislation indicates that they will be giving service managers the ability to make some decisions that locally affect them. The government is going to simplify the rent-geared-to-income calculations, which I think all can agree is an important benefit for tenants.

The current system does create barriers and disincentives to work because tenants must declare every time their income changes, and if it has increased, this often results in rent increases, so the additional income actually acts as a deterrent.

Having said that, this piece of legislation and the coinciding report will not reduce the enormity of the current affordable housing waiting list, which is currently well over 141,000 people. That’s a 9.6% increase just from last year alone. So this continues to be a real concern without any solution.

Additionally, simplifying the rent-geared-to-income calculation process is one thing, but that still leaves many Ontarians with no hope of assistance. Many stakeholders support the idea of an Ontario housing benefit. Today’s long-term affordable housing plan states, “Current financial challenges do not allow us to proceed to implement such a program at this time.” Well, three years ago this government introduced a housing-related income program. It was their rental opportunities for Ontario families program, otherwise known as the ROOF program. They allocated $185 million toward this program.

It is widely known that this program was a failure, and in September of this year we learned that they were quietly making changes to the program because not enough people signed up due to the cumbersome eligibility criteria. Perhaps had they not misused a portion of that $185 million, we would have seen a housing benefit in this piece of legislation and correspondingly in their long-term affordable housing plan.

I will just wrap up by saying that creating stronger partnerships and greater accountability between municipalities and the province, as this legislation sets out to do, is one thing, but providing Ontarians with a foolproof plan as to what affordable housing in Ontario will look like over the next 10 years is quite another. Sadly, this piece of legislation is an opportunity missed to achieve that goal. Certainly, after waiting this long and after the extensive consultation process, our anticipation was that this report would have been far more complete.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Responses?

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: Well, four housing ministers and three years later, this is what we get. It’s an incredibly sad, shameful day for those 141,000 families waiting on affordable housing lists an average of 10 to 12 years, 70,000 in the GTA alone. It’s a really sad and shameful day for the young mother who’s paying $1,100 in rent and getting $1,000 on social assistance. It’s a very shameful day for this government because they didn’t listen during those housing consultations.

Four hundred and eighty-five local organizations and individuals making up the Housing Network of Ontario spent their valuable time telling the McGuinty government what they needed, and here’s what they didn’t get. No new provincial housing funding. I’ll say it again: No more money. If you don’t have money in a provincial housing program, you don’t have provincial housing. No targets. No timelines. No accountability. No Ontario housing benefit, which you heard has been requested by food banks, by stakeholders, by housing providers; only a vague promise to explore options. No inclusionary zoning.

This would have cost not one penny. No amendment to the Planning Act. This turns your back, McGuinty Liberals, on all of those municipalities that submitted requests to be able to have inclusionary zoning acts put in place in their municipalities. This turns your back on all of those municipalities: a sad, sad day for municipal government, as well as for those waiting for affordable housing.

What did they ask for? They asked for bold targets and sustained funding. They got, as I said, no new funding, no multi-year commitment, no innovative financing, no strengthening of the development of the technical capacity of the sector.

They asked for a solid measuring stick. What did they get? They got Ontario housing measures only covering families with children, with the rest of Ontarians completely left out.

What did they ask for? They asked for housing that’s truly affordable and accessible. What did they get? No commitment to the Ontario housing benefit, no commitment to new funding, no affordable home ownership options.

And this is from the very stakeholders you spoke to. This is not our work.

Reform housing legislation to build stronger communities—and again, no inclusionary zoning, the very least that they could have done.

In contrast, what does the Ontario New Democratic Party offer? These are all tabled bills: a tenants’ bill of rights, rent supplements, inclusionary zoning. We even demanded of the McGuinty Liberals that they do what they promised, which was to build 20,000 new units—it requires money; no money in housing, no new units—and, of course, all under the umbrella of housing as a human right, which this government refused to pass. Imagine that. That’s shameful. That’s not even in line with the United Nations on housing. The United Nations has deemed that housing is a human right; not to McGuinty Liberals.

No, they wouldn’t even pass that, because they know that if they did, it would have ramifications.

All of the stakeholders asked for 10,000 new units per year—all of them. Did they get one? Not one. It’s a very, very sad and shameful day for those who are waiting for affordable housing. It’s a very sad and shameful day for all of those who come into our MPP offices and ask where they are on the list, and we tell them, “It’s only an eight- or nine-year wait now.” It’s a very, very sad and shameful day for families across this province who are struggling—the 250,000 families who pay more than 50% of their income on rent or housing. It’s a very shameful day for all of those anti-poverty activists across this province who know that housing is the key to be able to get out of poverty.

All of this, the McGuinty Liberals turn their backs on, even those moves that would have cost nothing. They turned their backs on those as well. It’s a very sad day. But they shouldn’t have to wait much longer, because we look forward to October 2011, when hopefully we’ll get a government in place that will actually provide housing for the people of Ontario.

PETITIONS

HIGHWAY IMPROVEMENT

Mr. John O’Toole: I’m looking for my petitions here, which are always at hand. This one reads as follows:

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas pedestrians and cyclists are increasingly using secondary highways to support healthy lifestyles and expand active transportation; and

“Whereas paved shoulders on highways enhance public safety for all highway users, expand tourism opportunities and support good health; and

“Whereas paved shoulders help to reduce the maintenance cost of repairs to highway surfaces; and

“Whereas Norm Miller’s private member’s Bill 100”—I’m surprised that he’s not here—“provides for a minimum one-metre paved shoulder for the benefit of pedestrians, cyclists and motorists;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“That Norm Miller’s private member’s Bill 100, which requires a minimum one-metre paved shoulder on designated highways, receive swift passage through the legislative process.”

I’m pleased to sign and support that bill, as well as to present this to page Connor on his second-last week here.

BRITISH HOME CHILDREN

Mr. Jim Brownell: I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

“Whereas, between 1869 and 1939, more than 100,000 British home children arrived in Canada from group homes and orphanages in England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland; and

“Whereas the story of the British home children is one of challenge, determination and perseverance; and

“Whereas due to their remarkable courage, strength and perseverance, Canada’s British home children endured and went on to lead healthy and productive lives and contributed immeasurably to the development of Ontario’s economy and prosperity; and

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“Enact Bill 12, a private member’s bill introduced by MPP Jim Brownell on March 23, 2010,

an act to proclaim September 28 of each year as Ontario home child day.”

As I agree with this petition, I shall sign it and send it to the clerks’ table.

ONTARIO SOCIETY

FOR THE PREVENTION

OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS

Mr. John O’Toole: It seems that I’m getting an extraordinary amount of exposure here this afternoon. This petition here says:

“Whereas the Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (OSPCA) recently and unilaterally announced that it would euthanize all animals in its care at its Newmarket shelter, citing a ringworm outbreak as justification;

“Whereas the euthanasia plan was stopped in the face of repeated calls for a stay in the Legislature and by the public, but not until 99 animals had been killed;

“Whereas the Premier and Community Safety Minister”—now Municipal Affairs Minister—“Rick Bartolucci refused to act, claiming the provincial government has no jurisdiction over the OSPCA;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Parliament of Ontario to immediately implement the resolution tabled at Queen’s Park by Newmarket–Aurora MPP Frank Klees on June 1, 2010, which reads as follows:

“‘That, in the opinion of this House, the Ontario Legislature call on the government of Ontario to review the powers and authority granted to the OSPCA under the OSPCA Act and to make the necessary legislative changes to bring those powers under the authority of the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services to ensure that there is a clearly defined and effective provincial oversight of all animal shelter services in the province, and to separate the inspection and enforcement powers of the OSPCA from its functions as a charity providing animal shelter services.’”

I’m pleased to sign and support this, even though this resolution has failed, and pass it to Justin.

CHRONIC CEREBROSPINAL VENOUS INSUFFICIENCY

Mr. Bill Mauro: I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario that reads as follows:

“Whereas, even though health care institutions in Ontario have the equipment and expertise, those MS patients who have been diagnosed with blocked veins in their neck (CCSVI) cannot receive the necessary treatment in Ontario; and

“Whereas many of the MS patients with CCSVI, at great personal expense, have had to seek treatment in other countries such as India, Poland, Bulgaria, Italy and the US, the provincial government still has not authorized the procedure, which is angioplasty, an already approved procedure since the early 1980s; and

“Whereas not all people with MS will have CCSVI, and not all people who have CCSVI will have MS, CCSVI treatment should be authorized and treated on its own merits, regardless of any MS issues; and

“Whereas, [despite] numerous testimonials of exceptional post-treatment improvements in the quality of life for patients, accompanied by detailed presentations by vascular surgeons to the Ontario government, the Ontario government still has not yet approved CCSVI treatment;

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“That the government of Ontario, through the Ministry of Health, must immediately approve and fund all diagnosing and treatment of CCSVI by qualified Ontario health institutions.”

PARKINSON’S DISEASE

Mr. John O’Toole: Petitions keep coming. This one reads as follows:

“Whereas there are up to 40,000 Ontarians living with Parkinson’s disease, many of whom require speech-language therapy to retain essential verbal communications skills and life-saving swallowing skills; and

“Whereas speech-language therapy can make the difference between someone with Parkinson’s retaining their ability to speak or not, and their ability to swallow or not, yet most Ontarians with Parkinson’s are unable to access these services in a timely fashion, many remaining on waiting lists for years while their speaking and swallowing capacity diminishes; and

“Whereas Ontarians with Parkinson’s who lose their ability to communicate experience unnecessary social isolation and economic loss due to their inability to participate as full members of their communities; and

“Whereas it is the responsibility of the community care access centres to assign speech-language pathologists to provide therapy to people on the wait-list, yet people are regularly advised to pay for private therapy if they want timely treatment, but many people living with Parkinson’s are already experiencing economic hardship and cannot afford the cost of private therapy;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Parliament of Ontario to call on Premier Dalton McGuinty and the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care to intervene immediately to ensure that CCACs across Ontario develop a plan to ensure that all Ontarians living with Parkinson’s who need speech-language therapy and swallowing therapy receive the necessary treatment” when and where they need it. We request this immediately.

I’m pleased to sign it, support it and send it to Jennifer, one of the pages on her second-last week.

DIAGNOSTIC SERVICES

M me France Gélinas: I have this petition from the people of Sudbury:

“Whereas the Ontario government is making ... PET scanning, a publicly insured health service available to cancer and cardiac patients; and

“Whereas,” since October 2009, “insured PET scans” are being performed “in Ottawa, London, Toronto, Hamilton and Thunder Bay; and

“Whereas the city of Greater Sudbury is a hub for health care in northeastern Ontario, with the Sudbury Regional Hospital, its regional cancer program and the Northern Ontario School of Medicine;

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to make PET scans available through the Sudbury Regional Hospital, thereby serving and providing equitable access to the citizens” of the northeastern Ontario.”

I fully support this petition, will affix my name to it and ask page Kira to bring it to the Clerk.

CEMETERIES

Mrs. Donna H. Cansfield: “To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas the Ontario Historical Society, founded in 1888, is a not-for-profit corporation, incorporated by the Legislative Assembly of Ontario April 1, 1899, with a mandate to identify, protect, preserve and promote Ontario’s history; and

“Whereas protecting and preserving Ontario’s cemeteries is a shared responsibility and the foundation of a civilized society; and

“Whereas the Legislature failed to enact Bill 149, the Inactive Cemeteries Protection Act, 2009, which would have prohibited the relocation of inactive cemeteries in the province of Ontario; and

“Whereas the Cooley-Hatt Cemetery (circa 1786) is located in the Niagara Escarpment plan within Ontario’s greenbelt plan in Ancaster, city of Hamilton; and

“Whereas this is one of the earliest surviving pioneer cemeteries in Ontario, with approximately 99 burials, including at least one veteran of the War of 1812;

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“The government of Ontario must take whatever action is necessary to prevent the desecration of any part of this sacred burial ground for real estate development.”

I sign my name and give it to page Sarah.

REPLACEMENT WORKERS

M me France Gélinas: I have this petition from the people of Sault Ste. Marie.

“Whereas strikes and lockouts are rare: on average, 97% of collective agreements are negotiated without work disruption; and

“Whereas anti-temporary replacement workers laws have existed in Quebec since 1978; in British Columbia since 1993; and successive governments in those two provinces have never repealed those laws; and

“Whereas anti-temporary replacement workers legislation has reduced the length and divisiveness of labour disputes; and

“Whereas the use of temporary replacement workers during a strike or lockout is damaging to the social fabric of a community in the short and the long term as well as the well-being of its residents;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to enact legislation banning the use of temporary replacement workers during a strike or lockout.”

I fully support this petition, will affix my name to it and send it to the clerks with page Jake.

CEMETERIES

Mr. Jim Brownell: I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas the Ontario Historical Society, founded in 1888, is a not-for-profit corporation, incorporated by the Legislative Assembly of Ontario April 1, 1899, with a mandate to identify, protect, preserve and promote Ontario’s history; and

“Whereas protecting and preserving Ontario’s cemeteries is a shared responsibility and the foundation of a civilized society; and

“Whereas the Legislature failed to enact Bill 149, the Inactive Cemeteries Protection Act, 2009, which would have prohibited the relocation of inactive cemeteries in the province of Ontario; and

“Whereas the Cooley-Hatt Cemetery (circa 1786) is located in the Niagara Escarpment plan within Ontario’s greenbelt plan in Ancaster, city of Hamilton; and

“Whereas this is one of the earliest surviving pioneer cemeteries in Ontario, with approximately 99 burials, including at least one veteran of the War of 1812;

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“The government of Ontario must take whatever action is necessary to prevent the desecration of any part of this sacred burial ground for real estate development.”

As I agree with this petition, I shall sign it and send it to the clerks’ table.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

HELPING ONTARIO FAMILIES AND

MANAGING RESPONSIBLY ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR L’AIDE

AUX FAMILLES ONTARIENNES

ET LA GESTION RESPONSABLE

Resuming the debate adjourned on November 25, 2010, on the motion for second reading of Bill 135,

An Act respecting financial and Budget measures and other matters / Projet de loi 135, Loi concernant les mesures financières et budgétaires et d’autres questions.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Further debate?

Mr. Michael Prue: I was waiting to see whether the person who had the floor before was here, but he is not.

I’m here to speak to this bill, and I think the financial matters contained within the bill are several and wide-ranging, but the key one has to be the 10% reduction in costs. I know that this is causing a great deal of confusion and concern in my riding—and I’m going to get to that in a moment—but it’s also causing a great deal of consternation out there in the political world and in the media.

I was looking through some media stories the other day and I came across one in the Windsor Star. I think he has said it in a nutshell far better than I could in a few minutes, so I’d just like to read what Windsor Star columnist Mr. Vander Doelen had to write, and this was on November—

Mr. John O’Toole: On a point of order, Madam Speaker: I hate to interrupt the member from Beaches–East York, but I would question if there is a quorum in the House.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Cheri DiNovo): Quorum count, please.

The Deputy Clerk (Mr. Todd Decker): A quorum is not present, Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Cheri DiNovo): A quorum is not present. There will be a five-minute bell.

The Acting Speaker ordered the bells rung.

The Deputy Clerk (Mr. Todd Decker): A quorum is now present, Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Cheri DiNovo): A quorum now being present, the member from Beaches–East York can continue.

Mr. Michael Prue: As I was stating, I had an opportunity to read the Windsor Star and came across an excellent column by Mr. Vander Doelen. It’s dated November 20 of this year and it’s entitled “Liberals in Panic Mode.” Of course I had to read this, and it ended up being all about this particular bill and the government plans to spend in excess of $1 billion of borrowed money to give it back to ratepayers who are feeling gouged.

I’d just like to read from part of his column, the first couple of paragraphs, and then the last paragraph. He writes, I think quite correctly:

“If skyrocketing hydro bills have had you worrying about the cost of hanging all those Christmas lights this season, relax.

“Help is on the way from your children. Years from now, whether they like it or not, your kids could be paying off $5.5 billion worth of today’s electric bills that Ontario’s Liberal government has decided to shift onto the provincial debt.

“In the fall fiscal update he delivered this week, Windsor’s own Finance Minister Dwight Duncan told us all to quit worrying about those monster hydro bills because he’s decided to shift $1.1 billion of those costs annually onto the provincial charge card for the next five years.

“Some of us had assumed that deficit financing had started to fall out of fashion in North America, given what happened to so many big-spending politicians in recent elections.

“Not at Queen’s Park, where our collective debt is now at $212 billion and still rising fast.

“The bill-shifting scheme, which is cynically being referred to as a ‘relief package’ for consumers, is actually just another disguised generational wealth transfer.

“It’s also an economic time bomb rigged to go off in the faces of the next generation—just like the tens of billions worth of deferred costs from the Liberals’s botched nuclear program in the 1980s, which shows up on your monthly hydro bill today as ‘debt retirement charges.’

“The latest hydro scheme will last past its first year only if the Liberals are re-elected next fall—which they are increasingly worried about, judging by their panicky decision-making recently.”

He closes off the article—because I don’t want to read the whole thing—with the final lines, “You never know: Stunts like this have worked for the Liberals in the past. But if voters decide they don’t like it, the retribution they visit upon the party next fall could be worse than anyone imagines.”

People out there are very unhappy about this bill, they’re very unhappy with this government and they’re very unhappy with hydro and the botched hydro provisions that this government has allowed to happen.

Last Thursday, in my riding of Beaches–East York, we held a hydro meeting. We advertised it widely. There was an

article in the local newspaper on the day the meeting was held. People came out in goodly numbers to talk about their hydro bills, this government’s hydro policies and the 10% reduction that they are all hoping to see, or dreading to see, I think was more accurate, next May.

They came up with wonderful ideas. It’s amazing how when you get a group of concerned individuals who are chosen or who choose themselves at random to show up to a publicly advertised meeting, you’re going to get the whole gamut of what the community thinks.

I promised them at the conclusion of that meeting that I would read every single idea that they brought up about how to improve our hydro policy and every single idea that they wanted to convey to this government through me, their elected representative here in the House. I’m just going to list them in the order in which they came out during that night and what people had to say.

People had to say, first, that they thought we weren’t exploring all the options for energy clearly enough. They felt that, by relying on nuclear and hydroelectric for the two major sources, we weren’t looking at other potential forms of energy.

One they came up with is probably not too popular, although it is being experimented with today in Ottawa. One of the people who were present wanted us to get rid of our trash by turning it into plasma energy, as is now being done in and around the city of Ottawa. That was one idea that was expressed, that if we were looking for alternate forms of energy that weren’t going to cost us as much money, the plasma exercise might be a good one because the people who are getting the tip-out fees for the garbage are absorbing the remaining part of the costs and are free to sell their energy on the grid.

The person who spoke about this felt that this should have been explored more fully by the Liberal government.

Another person stood up and talked about biomass and how she was a little upset that the whole biomass alternative is not anywhere on the radar, at less than 1%, and that surely when there are waste forest products and waste agricultural products and the government is shutting down the coal-fired generation plants in Lambton, in Mississauga and in Atikokan, we should be looking more to biomass as a way of producing electricity. It was pointed out that biomass is carbon neutral, and that it was a good thing to do—

Mr. Bill Mauro: On a point of order, Madam Speaker: I’d like to correct the record for the member, that in fact the Atikokan plant isn’t being closed, but is in fact being converted to biomass.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Cheri DiNovo): That is not a point of order. Thank you.

Mr. Michael Prue: If you had been patient, you would have heard me say that in my explanation. I am not saying what I think; I am saying what the members of my riding came forward to say. I did inform that member, and I’m going to do it now on the record, that the Atikokan plant is indeed changing to biomass, but there were some suggestions that in agricultural areas we could switch to switchgrass and waste agricultural, and that is not being done at the moment.

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: It is so.

Mr. Michael Prue: It is so? Well, when it’s your turn, go ahead.

The next person who stood up was complaining quite bitterly about the loss of industry in Ontario. He felt that the loss of industry was directly related to the cost of industrial hydro going up and that we were no longer competitive in the province of Ontario with our hydro rates. He pointed out, quite correctly, I think, that both Manitoba and Quebec have lower hydro rates and that their decline in industrial usage is far, far less severe than our own. That person wanted to make sure there was an industrial hydro rate.

The next person who stood up talked about the cost of solar energy and was bemoaning the fact that, in Ontario, we are paying up to 80 cents a kilowatt hour for solar energy. Although I think everyone in the room agreed that it was a clean form of energy, the majority of them wondered how we could continue to afford to pay 80 cents for solar energy when it costs only a very small fraction to produce energy through other, more traditional means.

There were a number of people who were upset about nuclear energy, the cost and the waste. They felt that nuclear energy was not the answer. They pointed out the fiasco of the 1980s, when all of these plants were built, and the fact that today it is the children of those people who are now having to pay for nuclear energy down the road.

They talked about the waste from nuclear energy as well. A number of deputants talked about the waste and how there is no long-term plan in this country, in this province or indeed anywhere in the world on how to deal with nuclear waste. It is again a problem that we are going to create and visit upon our children and our children’s children for generations to come so that we can have some form that is perhaps cheaper, but going to leave them with the long-term consequences.

People, to a person, talked about the cost of electricity in Ontario; that they are struggling, they are trying to make ends meet, they are every day wondering whether the hydro bill is going to tip them over the edge where they’re going to either lose their accommodation or they’re not going to be able to do things that their family relies upon; whether there’s going to be enough food, and that the hydro bills are becoming excessive. Person after person talked about that. One woman even suggested that she may move back to Manitoba.

She came to Ontario a few years ago, to Toronto particularly and specifically, but she may move back to Manitoba because it was her view that the electricity rates there were affordable and here they are not.

There were people who stood up and talked about solar panels, and people generally thought that solar panels were a good idea but they felt that getting the electricity from those panels into a large grid system was counterproductive in terms of cost.

One gentleman in particular felt that solar panels should not be put into the grid system but should be used in the individual house on which they are built as a form of direct electricity so that there is no cost or loss of electricity by sending it over the wires, which one of the panellists who works for the society of electrical engineers said could be as high as 9% or 10%. Although there was support for solar panels, there was only support if it remained localized.

There were many discussions about why we are in such a panic to build additional nuclear facilities or other facilities when the actual demand for electricity in Ontario has declined and continues to decline year after year after year. It is highly unlikely, given until 2015, that we will be using as much electricity as we used in the early years of this millennium. People wondered, given that many appliances and many lights are burning far less electricity, that —

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Cheri DiNovo): Would you stop for a minute? I would just ask that people, if they want to have conversations—the general level of volume here is getting to the point that it’s difficult to hear the member speaking—take them out to the lounges. Thank you.

Member from Beaches–East York.

Mr. Michael Prue: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for your intervention there. I was having a hard time hearing myself speak, as well.

They talked about the demand declining and wondered why there was a rush at this particular point, that surely there should be more sane and sensible thought put into an $85-billion energy plan that is not going to have costs that are going to be borne in decades to come and that people not yet born will have to pay for.

There was quite a discussion around Bruce nuclear. Some people thought the deal that the government had made was a good deal because the refurbishment is not going to cost the taxpayers any money, but they were quickly reminded by other people in the audience that it wasn’t so good a deal when the Ontario government is subsidizing the Bruce plant and Bruce nuclear to the tune of some $60 million a year for not producing electricity at all. When that fact came out on the floor, there was some general gasping.

People talked about other places having better policies in terms of heating. One of the discussions was around Europe and geothermal units and that in Ontario we are lagging far behind other jurisdictions in terms of geothermal heating of homes, offices, schools and institutions.

There was universal panning of the HST. Whenever the topic of the HST came up, people were upset about it. They were upset about the HST in general but particularly as it affected them in their usage of power, whether that power be in their automobile in the form of gasoline or home heating oil or electricity. In fact, one of the sharpest criticisms of the HST of all came in the terms of hydro bills and hydroelectricity itself.

Everyone wondered, and I have wondered, and I have written to ministers and I have asked this question repeatedly, and perhaps someone can inform this House: Why does the government think it is fair to charge HST on the debt retirement? This was an absolutely—one person stood up and asked this question: Why should they pay HST, 13%, on the debt retirement charges that the government has meted out to them?

They agree that somebody has to pay the debt, that it was the foolishness of past governments, particularly the Liberal governments in the 1980s, spending all of that money on nuclear development and racking up huge costs, but where does the government get off charging HST on the debt? One person even wondered whether or not it was legal. I have to agree. I don’t know whether you can charge HST on a debt and think that it’s legal.

Perhaps some government member, in the two-minute comment or later today, can advise where the government thinks that this is a just and perhaps legal thing to do, to put HST on a debt retirement.

People stood up and talked about privatization of hydro and how it has not worked. They blame the past Conservative government for attempting to do this, but they also said that it has, in turn, led to petty corruption within the hydro departments. They talked at some great length about that.

People, as I said, were opposed to the HST. One woman who stood up was quite a conservationist and felt that the government ought not to tinker with the peak periods. We heard the government last week announce that they’re taking two hours off the peak period starting this summertime. She felt that that would be allowing people to waste more electricity in times that we could not afford it.

A gentleman stood up and talked about his wife in terms of the concern that he has at the cost of electricity going up and the fact that he cannot shave his electricity at any given time of the day because of the medical needs of his wife. She is on a respirator at home. The electric